Speaker 1: You listen to Commander Who Got Podcast Episode four seventy nine.
Speaker 1: I'm Brando, I'm here thrown and we're gonna break down
Speaker 1: some bracket barriers now in our theme s. Hey Ryan,
Speaker 1: We're back for yet another whirlwind adventure. How you do it?
Speaker 2: Man?
Speaker 1: Good?
Speaker 2: What is going down?
Speaker 1: Whole bunch is going down. We have the new hotness
Speaker 1: in the nation and all of magic as a hole
Speaker 1: to talk about today. We've got some stories to tell,
Speaker 1: some people to thanks, some fucking notes to talk about.
Speaker 1: Before we get to any of that, you have to
Speaker 1: thank Official business Daddy's Fusion Gaming Online dot com. They
Speaker 1: are your source for all your gaming needs where you
Speaker 1: can do special promo codes dco holiday say five percent
Speaker 1: off all your game changing cards, your game changing bracketbusters,
Speaker 1: if you will. This is the BBB O the BBB
Speaker 1: on the BBB, on the YTC. This is outrageous. Also, however,
Speaker 1: we have to thank Pile of Bones Brewing Colder, the
Speaker 1: second coolest thing to come out of Regina, as well
Speaker 1: as the official beer sponsor for c CEO Sidewalks slam
Speaker 1: Theson three coming so so soon you.
Speaker 2: I'm so excited. I'm I'm so excited. Actually to talk
Speaker 2: about brackets.
Speaker 1: Weird it's such a nerd.
Speaker 2: I yes, I love talking magic theory, you know that,
Speaker 2: like when we can get granular and break something down
Speaker 2: and go deeper than just like surface level or trivial.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 1: I like to talk about sharks with Bazukas very much.
Speaker 2: So eh, but we're talking about brackets today.
Speaker 1: Instead of sharks with Bazookas. We have brackets, Brackzukas. I
Speaker 1: was actually gonna say that as well.
Speaker 2: There it is. That's why we're friends. Okay, little bit
Speaker 2: of stuff before we get to it. Okay, we gotta
Speaker 2: thank pile of bones like you did. We did business
Speaker 2: Daddy's Fusion. Yeah, CCO holiday promo code still in effect. Right,
Speaker 2: we appreciate that. I have my Ether drift box that
Speaker 2: I ordered from them, used the promo code on sealed
Speaker 2: products save five percent.
Speaker 1: I got my Commander deck that I ordered from there
Speaker 1: save five percent with special promo code, And when I
Speaker 1: went to pick it up at the weird ups drop station,
Speaker 1: it was at a one of those like local small
Speaker 1: grocery stores, like in the middle of Sutherland, which is
Speaker 1: like a town within Saskatoon, Right, And the guy at
Speaker 1: the till when I told him what I wanted, he
Speaker 1: went like this, oh no, and then he was like,
Speaker 1: if you're if you're watching on YouTube, what you should be,
Speaker 1: you'd see me that I wiped just a huge gob
Speaker 1: of boog off of my face and he was like
Speaker 1: smushing it around on his hand with his fingers while
Speaker 1: he was talking to me. And then he tried on
Speaker 1: three separate occasions to like touch my phone and my
Speaker 1: driver's license, and then kind of looked like he had
Speaker 1: his feelings hurt, and I told him I wouldn't let
Speaker 1: him touch my stuff. Weird, but I did get all
Speaker 1: my stuff arrived very quickly, very safely, packed professionally with
Speaker 1: a nice little smiley face written or drawn on that night,
Speaker 1: which was cool.
Speaker 2: So nice.
Speaker 1: Thanks guys, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: That's not very good. Final big thank you goes out
Speaker 2: to Dragoon. Oh yeah in the booth today producing for
Speaker 2: us from the Dufferin Avenue Media Network Network Network Network Studio.
Speaker 1: Yes, we appreciate them having us in here, giving us
Speaker 1: this small heater that will blow heat onto me to
Speaker 1: keep you warm, and giving us a cool place to
Speaker 1: record the show.
Speaker 2: I appreciate how the cameras aim so you can't see
Speaker 2: how I'm getting blown, which is not at all, which
Speaker 2: is completely normal. That is my life, never never ever
Speaker 2: getting blown by anything ever weird except for these brackets.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, your mind is blown by bracketology.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, we're staying on the bracket theme. But Cecil
Speaker 2: Sidewalks on February twenty eighth coming up. Oh what's the
Speaker 2: launch date? Tea Coat said he'd have it to me
Speaker 2: before then, So I'm holding them to it and look
Speaker 2: it out tightly in the camera zoomed on. Yeah, man, yeah,
Speaker 2: so that's when that's coming. Can't wait. And we've got
Speaker 2: another little crossover thing here coming up next week. While
Speaker 2: this week that you're listening to this show, our friends
Speaker 2: Tanner and other Brando what other better looking also long
Speaker 2: haired Brando. What weirdest thing ever that you're both named?
Speaker 2: That are? They sent us a popper edh gameplay show
Speaker 2: that we're going to feature on our community Spotlight channel
Speaker 2: on YouTube. Oh yeah, super fun.
Speaker 1: I thought we were going to spank them without pants.
Speaker 2: Well if we ever played magic against them, we could
Speaker 2: Rogue's Passage. That's where they're from. Their based at A Calgary.
Speaker 2: They're going to be at face to face Edmonton when
Speaker 2: I'm there, Have you found a place to stay?
Speaker 1: Yes, I have two offers of places to stay. I'm
Speaker 1: just seeing which one will be like the easiest for
Speaker 1: everybody involved. So I will probably also be there. The
Speaker 1: odds of me being there are very high, unless some
Speaker 1: kind of life circumstance keeps me from it. Yep. So
Speaker 1: as of today, as we record this, on Valentine's Day,
Speaker 1: at Valentine's Day, everybody should also be there.
Speaker 2: Very cool, Okay, So that is March eighth to ninth.
Speaker 2: We're gonna be there Saturday Sunday. Probably I'll be working
Speaker 2: on Saturday, but you'll be there jam and games, doing
Speaker 2: CEO stuff. And on Sunday morning, like all the whole morning.
Speaker 2: I'll have some merch there, some hats and cooks and sleeves,
Speaker 2: not sleeves, but we're gonna talk about that, just CEO stuff.
Speaker 2: So come and find us. It's gonna be a grand
Speaker 2: old time. I love and the Rogues Passage guys are
Speaker 2: gonna be there. That's that's what got me on that.
Speaker 1: I like those guys.
Speaker 2: They're fun, yeah, super cool. So check out the video
Speaker 2: next week. And I mentioned sleeves CEO sleeves. I've got
Speaker 2: one of the designs back from the artist. I eve me,
Speaker 2: uh that I have to show you and get your
Speaker 2: approval kind of on the.
Speaker 1: Background of it. Is there a dinosaur?
Speaker 2: There is no dinosaur surfboard on.
Speaker 1: Also, no the moon? Nope? What are we doing here?
Speaker 2: I have no idea. Lots of times I just I
Speaker 2: kind of just throw stuff at the wall and hope
Speaker 2: that it's stick.
Speaker 1: Is there a frog?
Speaker 2: No frog?
Speaker 1: A gun?
Speaker 2: No gun, a shark?
Speaker 1: Also no a knife? No? Hey, listen, man, listen. I
Speaker 1: realized I didn't guess everything, but I guess everything that
Speaker 1: I like.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: Ye is there a chicken?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 1: No chicken cheeseburger.
Speaker 2: I'll show you after we've got brackets to talk about it. Okay,
Speaker 2: So we've got an article from Gavin Dragon. You really
Speaker 2: don't have to switch cameras that much. He can keep
Speaker 2: it on two all the day.
Speaker 1: He's working hard, and we appreciate.
Speaker 2: He is working hard. He's working hard, and we appreciate it.
Speaker 2: So here's here's the thing. We've got the article from Gavin.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to read it though, and I'm not
Speaker 2: going to read it, but I am going to read
Speaker 2: some of the things that I.
Speaker 1: Really like about it.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, it's a new tool for us to use.
Speaker 2: It's a tool for us to use.
Speaker 1: It isn't a rules framework yet, and it's still a
Speaker 1: work in progress from everything that I've heard. So if
Speaker 1: you hate it, now is the time to respectfully tell
Speaker 1: people involved that you hate it. I have some suggestions
Speaker 1: of things that I would like to see. Yes, I'm
Speaker 1: sure you do as well. You can leave them in
Speaker 1: the comments or send them to people on the word
Speaker 1: or social media, but this is the thing.
Speaker 2: Is the time, yes, or send them to us so
Speaker 2: we can keep making content about it. I talk so
Speaker 2: much about brackets and individual cards and kind of the
Speaker 2: You call it a framework, and it's not a rules
Speaker 2: system yet, but it is. It is if we choose
Speaker 2: to use it like that, and it's not if we
Speaker 2: choose to not use it like that. And that's what
Speaker 2: I love about it, because you and me and the CEO,
Speaker 2: Dude Bros. And so many people that I've ever played
Speaker 2: games with in CECO Nation, we don't need this, no,
Speaker 2: But at the same time, I want to have it
Speaker 2: in mind when building and choosing individual cards and kind
Speaker 2: of theorizing how I build magic decks and things about magic,
Speaker 2: because I don't just.
Speaker 1: Play with you, play with everybody.
Speaker 2: I'll play with anybody, and this gives me verbiage to
Speaker 2: at least start a conversation in a way that other
Speaker 2: people are also going to know the language of.
Speaker 1: Sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and for that reason, I think it's good.
Speaker 1: Every deck is a three. Every deck is a three.
Speaker 2: Oh frick good thing. I ran out of stock on
Speaker 2: the Every deck is a seven sticker at the CCO store.
Speaker 1: That would have a whole new different context. Now, hey,
Speaker 1: what to seven? Bould be Power nine inclusive and you
Speaker 1: can have more than one of any kind of.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, A seven now is like thirty black lotuses
Speaker 2: thirty channels and thirty fireballs. A level three is a bazooka.
Speaker 2: It's a rail gun.
Speaker 1: It's an actual rail gun. Old gun. Oh man, Yes
Speaker 1: he has two pairs of nun chunks.
Speaker 2: Yes, I love that. Now. Here's here's the quotes that
Speaker 2: I actively have highlighted.
Speaker 1: Okay, here's the quote.
Speaker 2: But above all, the Commander bracket system is meant to
Speaker 2: provide players with greater terminology. Hold on my slide, got
Speaker 2: my terminology? Greater terminology?
Speaker 1: Sure?
Speaker 2: Now matter words matter and now all we're doing is
Speaker 2: speaking the same words. We're not saying, well, my ducks
Speaker 2: are seven in the arbitrary bullshit one to ten power
Speaker 2: scale the command zone made up fifteen years ago. We're
Speaker 2: not saying that anymore.
Speaker 1: Now, we're My decks are three based on the arbitrary
Speaker 1: bullshit number excess that this group of people came up
Speaker 1: with six months ago. Now.
Speaker 2: But here's the thing about that. This is the official stuff.
Speaker 1: This is it.
Speaker 2: It's like saying, what are the rules of commander as
Speaker 2: per Wizards of the Coast, And this is part of
Speaker 2: the rules.
Speaker 1: And the word lasagna is not being used to define
Speaker 1: any of the numbers. There's a fairly clear with you.
Speaker 1: With one exception, there's a very a clear distinction between
Speaker 1: each thing. But there actually is a much clearer that
Speaker 1: I would argue is the best distinction between tiers between
Speaker 1: four and five. That we'll get you later on.
Speaker 2: Yes, very much show and no shaded command zone. No,
Speaker 2: no shaded commandzone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that means some.
Speaker 2: Some shape, Yeah, like like five ounces.
Speaker 1: You don't want to get a sunburn. Everybody needs absolutely.
Speaker 2: Oh here's the other quote, and this is at the
Speaker 2: end of a sentence I'm not taking it out of context,
Speaker 2: because it's the end of the sentence that's important. If
Speaker 2: somebody builds their deck to do that intentionally, it's talking
Speaker 2: about chaining extra turns together. In this case, that's a
Speaker 2: no no. There's actually a system, a rule set, a
Speaker 2: philosophy behind what they don't want you to do it
Speaker 2: certain portions, within certain portions.
Speaker 1: Of the game.
Speaker 2: I fricking love that because and it's happened. The last
Speaker 2: time I played my Marvel deck. You didn't know it
Speaker 2: was extra turns deck. I said it was a peer
Speaker 2: into the Abyss deck. Wow, This turns out that peer
Speaker 2: into the Abyss when you have like four extra turn
Speaker 2: cards in your hand that you could play for free
Speaker 2: with dream halls pretty good.
Speaker 1: It makes people feel bad.
Speaker 2: I know this, and I'm playing with people that feel
Speaker 2: bad still because they're my friends and they know that
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do this bullshit and then probably take the
Speaker 2: deck apart. But if I didn't know that chaining extra
Speaker 2: turns together is a thing in the game that makes
Speaker 2: people sour and I just go out into the wild
Speaker 2: and do it, then I'm the bad guy, or I
Speaker 2: think they're the bad guy for telling me that I
Speaker 2: built a deck that isn't fun. Now I know.
Speaker 1: Oh that's a no. No, I shouldn't do that.
Speaker 2: That's against the rules of.
Speaker 1: The fucking game. Oh shit, I didn't know that there
Speaker 1: was rules that govern that.
Speaker 2: Now the bracket system gives me a rules framework.
Speaker 1: It governs that. And we're gonna get this out of
Speaker 1: the way right now, because we talked about it, not
Speaker 1: in depth, but a fair bit last night. We were
Speaker 1: all out for abuse together. Yeah, yes, you can build
Speaker 1: a five that's a one. Yes, you can absolutely do that.
Speaker 1: But that's the same as saying I built my deck
Speaker 1: on the in the car on the way over here. Yes, right,
Speaker 1: And we're not catering to that because that's not what
Speaker 1: this is for those people. There's no system or set
Speaker 1: of guidelines that will prevent that. Yes, there's always gonna
Speaker 1: be pub stompers and people that need to win for
Speaker 1: no prizes, for nothing. You have that that's going to exist, yes, right,
Speaker 1: You're always gonna have the guy that's like, yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna pup stomp these nubes real quick before I
Speaker 1: go plan the main event. That's always going to be there,
Speaker 1: and it sucks. That's just kind of part of the
Speaker 1: ecosystem of the game, and we have just we're not
Speaker 1: going to address that much more than probably.
Speaker 2: And you could have you could have a very concrete,
Speaker 2: hard and fast, black and white rules system and people
Speaker 2: would still do that. You could have a rule system
Speaker 2: like this where they say, oh, up or down a
Speaker 2: level is probably fine as long as everybody knows, and
Speaker 2: that's the expectation. You're still going to have that. You're
Speaker 2: still going to have people that know that this framework
Speaker 2: exists and ironically try and circumvent the rules by saying,
Speaker 2: my level four is actually a one because I don't
Speaker 2: play any game changers and I.
Speaker 1: Don't blow up land and I don't take extra turn. Yeah,
Speaker 1: technically that's true.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And you're you're still going to have people
Speaker 2: that that don't know that this exists. And when you say, hey, man,
Speaker 2: that's an actual.
Speaker 1: Actually a four bracket, a bracket four deck, and they're
Speaker 1: going to say, what, huh, what do you brackets about?
Speaker 2: And then then that introduces the line of thought, well,
Speaker 2: I'm worried about new players. This makes it really complex,
Speaker 2: ha ha ha as if magic's not complex, like you
Speaker 2: do not know a game you're playing. Yeah, it's like
Speaker 2: learning to play Magic's like like if you freaking tell
Speaker 2: a toddler to try and fly a rocket ship and
Speaker 2: land it on a dime on Mars, Like, that's how
Speaker 2: difficult this game is.
Speaker 1: It's very tough. Nobody who shows up at a magic
Speaker 1: Fest to play with strangers is going to be so
Speaker 1: unfamiliar with the rules set of the game that they
Speaker 1: can't grasp this system.
Speaker 2: Yes, so don't worry about it being complex and having
Speaker 2: a second set of like cards that are pseudo banned,
Speaker 2: And why aren't they pointed like Canadian Highlander. Well they are.
Speaker 2: Each card's worth one point, and you can have a
Speaker 2: maximum of three points in your deck before it's a
Speaker 2: level four. Like they're pointed. It's the same thing. Will
Speaker 2: they always be pointed? No? Will there be sometimes be
Speaker 2: more pointed cards, yes, sometimes they'll be less yes. So anyways,
Speaker 2: the final thing about Gavin's article before we talk about
Speaker 2: like how it affects us in the nation and our
Speaker 2: decks and stuff, is I said, finally somebody is taking
Speaker 2: an actual stand to weed out all of the gray
Speaker 2: areas and all of the rule zeros and all of
Speaker 2: the bullshit and the liars and the pub stompers and
Speaker 2: the whomever's that make the game challenging. And sure this
Speaker 2: introduces some complexity because it's another list and another rule set.
Speaker 2: Moderate complex, yeah, but when it's incorporated in to how
Speaker 2: to play Commander in Official in an official capacity as
Speaker 2: it has been, it makes it less complex because it
Speaker 2: gives you a rules kind of checklist to say, am
Speaker 2: I following this rule? This rule? This rule? Do my
Speaker 2: decks comply?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: Do your decks follow the same rule set?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: Okay, let's try and play them together and probably have
Speaker 2: greater success, similar outcomes, and more fun than if we
Speaker 2: just blind pick two random guys and said, hey, played
Speaker 2: fucking magic.
Speaker 1: Which is what we do when we're setting up odds
Speaker 1: at Magic Fest. Yeah, yeah, you command command take up
Speaker 1: the game with you guys.
Speaker 2: You gotta you gotta backpack at a beard, Come sit down.
Speaker 1: Yeah? So how does it affect us?
Speaker 2: Like? What a what do we what do we stand
Speaker 2: to gain or lose?
Speaker 1: Us?
Speaker 2: Me?
Speaker 1: Well, I can't speak for you, but I can speak
Speaker 1: for myself. Nothing I gain and lose nothing by this
Speaker 1: framework coming into play. I went over all of my
Speaker 1: decks and the results that I got with like I
Speaker 1: think three exceptions are exactly what I was expecting. I
Speaker 1: got precisely the results. I thought. All of my decks
Speaker 1: are threes for the most part.
Speaker 2: I have two exceptions to your three. But you've got
Speaker 2: like seven thousand decks and I've got nineteen.
Speaker 1: I didn't even know I had that many decks. Twenty
Speaker 1: eight not so much. That's fricking lots.
Speaker 2: I have two exceptions to what I think or what
Speaker 2: I thought, and then I've got two we talked a
Speaker 2: little bit about on the pre show yesterday too, that
Speaker 2: are probably two's, but have a one game changer. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And that's when I would explain via rule zero conversation
Speaker 2: that this is a modified pre con but only uses
Speaker 2: cards from the Lord of the Ring set. It's got
Speaker 2: a one ring in it, right.
Speaker 1: Same card and a preview for CEO Sidewalks Slam season three,
Speaker 1: episode one, coming to YouTube on February twenty eighth. That
Speaker 1: deck I actually play. It's one game changer card in
Speaker 1: the deck on the show, maybe more than once.
Speaker 2: And because there was another game changer that got cast
Speaker 2: multiple times exact what a loser, oh man, But without
Speaker 2: that till just now.
Speaker 1: But if it was without that deck, that deck would
Speaker 1: be an easy one. Oh yeah, because it's just everything
Speaker 1: has haste. Good deck, Yes, what it is, and that
Speaker 1: is the literal definition of a one. Yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: good one, but it has a game changer card in it,
Speaker 1: so technically it's a three to three, but I'm not
Speaker 1: counting it as it.
Speaker 2: Now, going back to what how does it affect us?
Speaker 2: What do we stand to gain or lose?
Speaker 1: It might be easier to me go in public and like, okay,
Speaker 1: yes three personally us and our closest friends of local players.
Speaker 2: Whose house we go to? Who's and here's here's the example.
Speaker 2: Who's kid I've known since she was in a car seat? Right,
Speaker 2: I know that guy? Right? Whose guy? Who's weddings? Like,
Speaker 2: we're in each other's weddings and shit, Like we know
Speaker 2: each other, we know each other's decks, we know each
Speaker 2: other's build philosophies. I know that you're not an infinite
Speaker 2: combo guy. I know you don't like either flux reservoir.
Speaker 2: I know Jesse doesn't do infinite combos, but he runs
Speaker 2: two Wrath of Gods and.
Speaker 1: Every deck yep, literal wrath of God.
Speaker 2: Yes, right, I know tendencies of my friends. I know
Speaker 2: what I'm getting. I know what the expectation is. So
Speaker 2: this tool is not a tool that we need for that. No,
Speaker 2: is it a conversation starter when new players come into
Speaker 2: our lgs? Probably it is. Is it something that maybe
Speaker 2: you could print out the list of game changers and
Speaker 2: the brackets to show people who've never heard of it before,
Speaker 2: at least in the next month or so, to say, hey,
Speaker 2: check this out. Where do your decks fall in? What's
Speaker 2: what do you think about deck building? And maybe we
Speaker 2: can kind of find a common ground and completely shortcut
Speaker 2: the whole bracket conversation. Once we get to know each other,
Speaker 2: you want to figure shit out. Yeah, and probably everybody
Speaker 2: at our local game store you could do that with.
Speaker 2: And probably I don't go quite as often as you,
Speaker 2: Probably ninety percent of the people that.
Speaker 1: I could do that with. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: And as far as how does it affect CCO nation,
Speaker 2: exactly the same way, Because you're already watching, You're already
Speaker 2: entrenched in in our culture and in our attitude, and
Speaker 2: in our sense of humor, and obviously the way that
Speaker 2: we build decks. If you watch our show over.
Speaker 1: And over again, you're going to know all those things too.
Speaker 2: You're gonna know all that stuff because you know, no Dixon,
Speaker 2: no assholes. And that's the whole that's the whole point
Speaker 2: of this. If you've already got that down, then it's
Speaker 2: like you've shortcuted the whole thing.
Speaker 1: You don't necessarily need this, but maybe you're gonna run
Speaker 1: into somebody that you don't know, and maybe this will
Speaker 1: be helpful. Yeah. Maybe.
Speaker 2: So the couple issues that I do take from it,
Speaker 2: and and this is maybe a criticism that we don't
Speaker 2: need an answer for in Gavin's article and in the
Speaker 2: UH in the breakdown of like when you can start
Speaker 2: to cast your combos and stuff, right, what is early
Speaker 2: and what is late? Like what does that mean?
Speaker 1: Six turn six?
Speaker 2: Six manna which is quite the same.
Speaker 1: And that's the that's the big question. Is I'm gonna
Speaker 1: say six. I think that most big time combos you
Speaker 1: can probably do with If that's what you need, two
Speaker 1: card ones and stuff, you can probably do six turns well,
Speaker 1: man is what it takes to do it. And if
Speaker 1: you apply mana to turn, then yes, turn six would
Speaker 1: be the one. But sometimes you do lanceol Ring Signet
Speaker 1: go yeah land Land.
Speaker 2: Or Land sol Ring game changer like Grim Monolith. Now
Speaker 2: I've got six man on turn two, right, and that's
Speaker 2: why that game changer is there. Yes, right, So it's like, hey,
Speaker 2: I've got an infinite combo and this game changer in
Speaker 2: my deck. The infinite combo costs six manna, but I
Speaker 2: am running a Grim Monolith because I.
Speaker 1: Have a foil one, because I'm a baller and right
Speaker 1: to arbitrarily not do that, because I can't do this
Speaker 1: until turn six.
Speaker 2: No, And that's why this is a great again frameworker
Speaker 2: tool to start a conversation. By the way, I don't
Speaker 2: have a foil Grim Monolith. I don't. I don't own
Speaker 2: one of those. But if I did, I'd sure as
Speaker 2: fuck be playing.
Speaker 1: Oh, it would be a deck, and I'd sure as fuck.
Speaker 2: Be telling people that I own it. Right, And then
Speaker 2: it uses the bracket framework as a cool way to
Speaker 2: tell somebody about like your pimpest deck. What deck would
Speaker 2: you put a foil Grim Monolith? Oh, do you play
Speaker 2: Grim Monolith currently in that deck? No?
Speaker 1: But if I had one, I would, But you would
Speaker 1: I only have gold bordered Oh? I know, I know,
Speaker 1: I know, I know, I know, I know.
Speaker 2: That's why I don't play shit, I don't Okay, next thing.
Speaker 1: Next thing.
Speaker 2: That is something that I have that I always question.
Speaker 2: And this goes back to like reading legal documents and
Speaker 2: like collective agreements and stuff. I'm a boring old job redundancies.
Speaker 2: Why are we saying the same thing two times, as in,
Speaker 2: why are we saying tutors should be sparse in categories
Speaker 2: one and two and three and also putting tutors in
Speaker 2: the game changer's list when we should just say tutors
Speaker 2: should be sparse. And that's it. Now. I know Gavin's
Speaker 2: reasoning in the article. I understand, Like I see the reasoning.
Speaker 2: I don't think that that's good enough.
Speaker 1: I don't either.
Speaker 2: I think that if tutor should be sparse, you should
Speaker 2: only have like what does sparse mean? Let's def find
Speaker 2: that term. Does sparse mean three in your whole deck?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Does that mean two in your whole deck? Does that
Speaker 2: mean what? They should be sparse in terms of narrow
Speaker 2: tutors that can only find enchantments or artifacts.
Speaker 1: Or creatures, Well, obviously not, because the ones that can
Speaker 1: only find artifacts and enchantments or instance an sorceries are
Speaker 1: on the list of game changing cards as opposed to
Speaker 1: the ones that can find anything you want, like gamble
Speaker 1: or things that will probably make you find even more
Speaker 1: things like I don't know, uh, what is there not Hermit, Druid,
Speaker 1: Heritage Druid, what's the Druid? I'm thinking of Druid green
Speaker 1: one taptics card, it's Survival of the Legs on Legs?
Speaker 2: Yeah, what is that card?
Speaker 1: That one? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna say Survival of the Shaman.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, you find that there's lots of other
Speaker 1: cards that sort of do those things, and the fact
Speaker 1: that no creature tutors made that list with some of
Speaker 1: the other ones did is kind of m telling.
Speaker 2: Well, Survival of the Fittest did, I think though, that's
Speaker 2: because it's repeatable, right, Ah, do a multiple times. And
Speaker 2: here's the thing though, the other tutors that made the
Speaker 2: list aren't repeatable, but they still should be sparse.
Speaker 1: And they tutor to the top of the deck.
Speaker 2: I can have a I can have a grim tutor
Speaker 2: in my deck, but I can't have a demonic tutor.
Speaker 2: It's one man a different right. I can have a
Speaker 2: grim tutor and a cruel tutor, but I can't have
Speaker 2: a demonic tutor in my deck. I can have a
Speaker 2: Grim Tutor and a Cruel tutor in my bracket two,
Speaker 2: and that's sparse. But if I put one Demonic Tutor
Speaker 2: in it, then it's a three. Or if I cut
Speaker 2: Grim and Cruel and I put Demonic in just straight up,
Speaker 2: then it's a three. That's what I don't like. And
Speaker 2: I and I know that there's some some gray area
Speaker 2: in between, like in between let's say bracket two and
Speaker 2: bracket three. But when we don't have a definition for sparse,
Speaker 2: that does leave the door open for me to say, well,
Speaker 2: my tutors are sparse. I only have Grim Tutor and
Speaker 2: Cruel Tutor. Sure, but my deck is a three because
Speaker 2: I also play Demonic Tutor. But then I could say, well,
Speaker 2: really though, that's only three tutors total. So I'm gonna
Speaker 2: play this in a two bracket because it's it's my
Speaker 2: only game changer, and one extra card doesn't make my
Speaker 2: deck not have sparse tutors anymore.
Speaker 1: And my thing with all the tutors is redundancy, of course,
Speaker 1: is why you play them, but like, what are you
Speaker 1: redundantly looking for? What if what you're tutoring for isn't
Speaker 1: like something game busting or insane, you're finding your what's
Speaker 1: the thing there's a red enchantment where it kills the
Speaker 1: thing that it's on, and whoever like cycles through their
Speaker 1: library till they get to another thing that shows a
Speaker 1: type with it. It puts that into play with that
Speaker 1: attached to it. Like whatever that enchantment is, maybe it'll
Speaker 1: be on the screen of joke and think of what
Speaker 1: it is and you're watching it on YouTube and you
Speaker 1: can see it, Like what if that's what you're running
Speaker 1: a redundancy for? Because that's kind of the thing that
Speaker 1: your deck does, you know what I mean? Like is
Speaker 1: your deck still a three or is it this janky
Speaker 1: thing that only plays four preachers in this one card
Speaker 1: and then a ways to find?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and exactly I think of five color Modern White
Speaker 2: Angel Aaron's deck.
Speaker 1: That's the exact deck. Yeah, where where he's got like
Speaker 1: one creature in the whole day.
Speaker 2: Is polymorph become a tutor's proteus staff become a tutor
Speaker 2: in your deck that runs one creature? And I think
Speaker 2: the answer is yes. Then it goes back to letter
Speaker 2: of the law exactly how it's written versus intent, And
Speaker 2: I like that there's room for interpretation on that front
Speaker 2: because For people that are in Trench magic players who
Speaker 2: are familiar with a the power level of cards, the
Speaker 2: culture of commander, and this bracket system, they can say,
Speaker 2: my Souron deck is a Lord of the Rings them
Speaker 2: deck that's built from a pre con. It's a modified
Speaker 2: pre con, but it has a one ring in it.
Speaker 2: I'm still gonna play this in the two bracket because
Speaker 2: it's only as powerful as a pre con. It's not
Speaker 2: a three.
Speaker 1: All pre cons are twos. Apparently, Yes, there are some
Speaker 1: that have two cards infinite combos, but it's also a two.
Speaker 2: Are there?
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was one from thunder Junction. I think it
Speaker 1: was last Oh yeah, I think it was an accident,
Speaker 1: but still yeah, it's yeah, and you and you trash.
Speaker 2: There's pre cons that have what's the one trouble in pairs.
Speaker 1: That's where the card comes from, and.
Speaker 2: That's a game changer, but it's a two. That's the exception.
Speaker 2: That's like polymorph in my own my one Creature Dot
Speaker 2: deck polymorph. I wouldn't consider that a tutor, but I
Speaker 2: would say this is a polymorph combo deck and tell
Speaker 2: people that you think you're polymorphing in a deck that's
Speaker 2: got zero game changers. You're not polymorph comboing on turn two.
Speaker 2: You're not doing that.
Speaker 1: You're just not.
Speaker 2: And I'll play against that in a two bracket. That's fine.
Speaker 2: My two's run removal.
Speaker 1: Yeah fine, I got a containment priest. I'll be fine. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there you go, There you go.
Speaker 2: I had to go through the mental inventory of what
Speaker 2: card that was.
Speaker 1: If a creature comes into play and no, man I
Speaker 1: was spent to cast, did you exile it instead? Yeah?
Speaker 2: You know you don't have though, drandath magistrate.
Speaker 1: I have one of those two. It's in my most
Speaker 1: powerful deck according to it's tied with a TRAXA. Okay,
Speaker 1: I got one more question.
Speaker 2: Then we're gonna go get into decks.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, h.
Speaker 2: Should there be an allowance for game changers in each bracket?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: You think one game changer max in each bracket? Up
Speaker 2: to three?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: Or one in one, two and two, three and three
Speaker 2: and four, as four and above as any number.
Speaker 1: I think you should be able to have one in
Speaker 1: one and two. Well, just yeah, if you like. I
Speaker 1: own a cradle, and I thought that it would make
Speaker 1: my Sapreling deck or my OOZ deck like a little better.
Speaker 2: I like that line. Of thought where I opened up
Speaker 2: this card.
Speaker 1: And one and I don't I don't maybe have the
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say the resources are the excitement to acquire
Speaker 1: the resources to play a three or four. But I
Speaker 1: did open this fierce Guardianship and I really want to
Speaker 1: play it.
Speaker 2: I got an exam. I got the exact example from
Speaker 2: Gemstone mind John. His sister opened up a Strixaven Mystical Archive,
Speaker 2: Demonic Tutor. That's a card, but it goes in her
Speaker 2: off brick. It's it's like it's like a nightmare them
Speaker 2: deck like it's.
Speaker 1: Like nightmare like the Horse that Flies or nightmare like.
Speaker 2: I don't even know, probably some like she doesn't play
Speaker 2: magic that much and the deck isn't obviously it's not
Speaker 2: a powerful deck. She just opened it, so she plays
Speaker 2: it as she should as it and it's probably less
Speaker 2: powerful than a two. Yeah, but it's not technically a one.
Speaker 2: This is a whole different problem that we're not going
Speaker 2: to talk about. It's technically less powerful than a pre
Speaker 2: con but it doesn't have a theme, So like, where
Speaker 2: do those decks exist? But they existed one or two?
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter. So anyways, onto our deck. Yes, this
Speaker 2: is act I actually had a good time doing this
Speaker 2: this morning.
Speaker 1: It was very enlightening. I had so many decks and
Speaker 1: it took me a long time. It took me a
Speaker 1: long time. I did it on architect early in the morning.
Speaker 1: I started knowing it was going to take a while.
Speaker 1: And as I was about maybe halfway through the like,
Speaker 1: the indicators came up for game changers sort of popping
Speaker 1: up in my list, and I was like, before I
Speaker 1: had to go through and the cross cross check the list,
Speaker 1: I was counting and shit on my fingers, and then
Speaker 1: I clicked on when I said, what does this little
Speaker 1: fucking star hear me? Oh my god. Oh like updated
Speaker 1: it while I was, which made the rest of it
Speaker 1: very easy. But oh my god, so.
Speaker 2: I have I'll say this. I have one deck that
Speaker 2: I couldn't count game changers on my fingers.
Speaker 1: It's got eleven. Wow, I think it is.
Speaker 2: I think it's actually twelve because I think that there's
Speaker 2: a there's a ancient two minutes. The deck is that
Speaker 2: Breuvac Breuvac cedh like mill Combo. I'm trying to cast
Speaker 2: a six drop on turn two to kill.
Speaker 1: You the c Yeah, of course we're going to talk
Speaker 1: about the difference.
Speaker 2: Let's let's do bracket one though, what do you got in.
Speaker 1: Brack of one? According to two with the bracket system,
Speaker 1: I have one. I got one one, and it's below
Speaker 1: part of brambles and anybody who's ever and here's why.
Speaker 1: Here's why. It's a one because it doesn't play any
Speaker 1: game changes, it has no land denial, it has no
Speaker 1: extra term.
Speaker 2: Is this your jank one like your trash anti one?
Speaker 1: They're both trash according to the bracket system. And it's
Speaker 1: got a theme of all the bulk shitty artifacts and enchantments.
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna play anywhere else it costs four or more.
Speaker 2: Oh, you are a piece of trash.
Speaker 1: But it also turns out that all of those bulkshit
Speaker 1: enchantments are four fours. They're indestructible in haste, and they
Speaker 1: also draw me a card when they hit you. And
Speaker 1: anybody who's played against that bellow deck knows for goddamn
Speaker 1: certain it is not a one.
Speaker 2: So letter of the law versus intent corec and you,
Speaker 2: as a season magic player who knows the culture of commander.
Speaker 1: It's a three.
Speaker 2: It's a three, and it's perfect as a three. It's
Speaker 2: a perfec because you're specifically not playing stuff to push
Speaker 2: it over the top in terms of power.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it ain't a one. It ain't a one. No,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you that right now. So according to them,
Speaker 1: I have one one and it's obviously not a one,
Speaker 1: And I do have a three that should be a
Speaker 1: one because it's mono face down creatures, just all the
Speaker 1: different kinds of face down creatures. But it's a three
Speaker 1: because it had a fierce guardianship in it, because I
Speaker 1: had one in my binder. So I think when I
Speaker 1: get home, I'm gonna cut it and then vanifar my
Speaker 1: new deck, it'll be a one.
Speaker 2: Now, this is a wholenother trajectory. I said on the
Speaker 2: pre show yesterday. We could talk a.
Speaker 1: Week about this.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's a whole nother trajectory. Does that one
Speaker 2: game changer make you want to take it out? So
Speaker 2: you can say, this is very strictly to the letter
Speaker 2: of the law. I'm changing one card that's not even
Speaker 2: gonna matter the letter of the law a two or
Speaker 2: a one or a three. And the other thing, too
Speaker 2: is if it's not gonna matter, why do I gotta
Speaker 2: cut it? I want to play the card I have
Speaker 2: it yeah right, Well, then it's a three because you
Speaker 2: can't move down from a three to a one. That's
Speaker 2: a two bread two bracket jump, a two bracket jump.
Speaker 2: You can't move two brackets down, and you're making card
Speaker 2: choices based on wanting to play this specific card because
Speaker 2: of what it does. Your deck's not a one anymore.
Speaker 2: Your deck isn't a two anymore. That's a three.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: My one one is Greema worm Tongue Cesio raw dog deck.
Speaker 1: There you go. Yeah, yeah, so I guess my raw
Speaker 1: dog deck technically is also a one, but I have
Speaker 1: an actual version of it that I really done.
Speaker 2: Here we are my twos, your twost I got twos. Now,
Speaker 2: these are the ones that I deem are on the
Speaker 2: same power level as a modern day pre con that
Speaker 2: don't have any game changers land denial, fast manna, sparse
Speaker 2: tutors whatever that means. And what's the other thing. You
Speaker 2: can take an extra turn, but you're not treaming, oh yeah, no,
Speaker 2: no chaining extra teah. Okay, So I've got bray of
Speaker 2: vehicles and my old vehicle deck dinosaurs driving vehicles that would.
Speaker 1: Have been a one.
Speaker 2: I will say that that deck never won a game
Speaker 2: ever right Bray of Vehicles has at least one games there,
Speaker 2: we go, okay, mind Skinner because it takes multiple turnover
Speaker 2: turn to mill you, and it's not gonna happen very
Speaker 2: easily in the Commander's fragile Calimax. The Community Calamax build
Speaker 2: no infinites in Calamax, and I make very distinctly sure
Speaker 2: to make sure I say that no frickin' infinites in Klamax,
Speaker 2: because he's famous for going infinite. Right. Then i got
Speaker 2: guy here Birds with a sub theme of the Ring
Speaker 2: tempt You that could almost be a one. And then
Speaker 2: I've got Cascade Super Friends, Averna teamer Cascade Super It's slow,
Speaker 2: but it does have a great Cascade land engine in it,
Speaker 2: like frecons usually do, with a big kind of finish
Speaker 2: at the end, with a full of permanence like I
Speaker 2: I equate that one to kind of like the er
Speaker 2: Miss pre Con from a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1: Cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what are your twos?
Speaker 1: My twos? I have apparently six of them. I've got
Speaker 1: a ratidrabic oops all legendaries, yep. I've got Tan of
Speaker 1: the butt Sewer and Jessica got all the swords that
Speaker 1: and that cards that decade either. But according to this
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 2: Because no game changers, right, correct, I've got tour brand.
Speaker 1: Quit hitting yourself. That's everything? Does one the deck? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And I think that's a solid two. I think that
Speaker 1: one's a good that's probably it runs. Yes, it runs
Speaker 1: a blood moon, but like, okay.
Speaker 2: That's that's a great example. I'm saying this runs a
Speaker 2: blood moon in a mono red deck. If you want
Speaker 2: it to be a true too instead of a rule
Speaker 2: zero two? Could we we could use that language, right?
Speaker 1: I could probably cut the blood I wanted to think
Speaker 1: of it.
Speaker 2: Think of your tour brand as kind of like a
Speaker 2: Gyerson Stern Warhammer forty K deck, right, kind of does
Speaker 2: the same thing.
Speaker 1: Here's one that nobody's going to agree with?
Speaker 2: Is it?
Speaker 1: Once? I tell you what it does? I have Wolfgar
Speaker 1: double attack triggers featuring all of the El Drassi Titans.
Speaker 1: I can double the Annihilator triggers.
Speaker 2: How is that not chaining extra turns?
Speaker 1: Its changing You don't have to sack your land to annihilator.
Speaker 2: How is that not chaining extra turns? In that extra
Speaker 2: combats is how you normally win with extra turns. And
Speaker 2: also sacking artifacts that produce manna and eventually lands because
Speaker 2: multiple Annihilator four triggers will make me sack my lands.
Speaker 2: How is it a two intent versus law?
Speaker 1: Exactly? Exactly exactly, and that's what these are. These are
Speaker 1: by the laws of the thing.
Speaker 2: Again, people, you have to communicate that through the bracket
Speaker 2: system language and rules set, combined with rule zero and
Speaker 2: your knowledge of the culture of commander. It's very important
Speaker 2: that you do both of those things.
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, other number two Obeca too. That's the extra
Speaker 1: up peop Rebecca, even though that one kind of is
Speaker 1: taking extra turns.
Speaker 2: Yeah, fuck that that's so that's a three.
Speaker 1: That's hard, and that that one's also a three ranked
Speaker 1: is a two because of how the thing works. We
Speaker 1: already talked about.
Speaker 2: Extra upkeeps and you, yeah, like seven extra up keeps.
Speaker 2: That's not extra turns, but you're doing a thing that
Speaker 2: a turn.
Speaker 1: Would care about having line as well, because I want
Speaker 1: to have seven more turns, so I can have seven
Speaker 1: more upkeeps. Take them all on one turn and the
Speaker 1: other two where they were Bellow and Vana far which
Speaker 1: were kind of there. So we already talked about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got threes I've got Trufast by the Letter
Speaker 2: of the Laws a three and it has a one
Speaker 2: ring take it out, take it out it becomes a two.
Speaker 2: And from Fusion Gaming Online dot com, I just got
Speaker 2: the the two drop enchantment that gives your creatures plus
Speaker 2: one plus one and whenever a creature enters the battlefield,
Speaker 2: you draw card or something.
Speaker 1: You know what I was thinking to be really cool
Speaker 1: in that deck is you play that new Nissa creature
Speaker 1: that whenever a land comes into play, you get two energies,
Speaker 1: and then you can pay eight energies to play something
Speaker 1: for free. Yes, and then you play Life and a
Speaker 1: Limb to turn all your saperlings into lands. Then you
Speaker 1: make five SAPs and you get ten energy, and then
Speaker 1: you can play something like that thing that turns all
Speaker 1: your dudes into six sixes.
Speaker 2: And now your deck is a badass and probably still
Speaker 2: a two because that that's terrible that Nissa comes into
Speaker 2: pre con and it takes like four cards to make
Speaker 2: that happen. So Trufas is a three. My Advisors is
Speaker 2: a three. It's got one game changer in it. Okay,
Speaker 2: I think probably it's more powerful than a pre con
Speaker 2: because late game I can go like with my team
Speaker 2: of a creatures that I worked hard in the game
Speaker 2: to get.
Speaker 1: I did work.
Speaker 2: I can go Illusions of Grander, I gain twenty. All
Speaker 2: my guys get plus twenty take three hundred damage. Yes,
Speaker 2: that's a combo. That's a combo. So it's got a
Speaker 2: late game combo. I've got Estrid the Bald, same thing.
Speaker 2: I work my ass off the whole time.
Speaker 1: It's an enchanter's deck.
Speaker 2: It's an enchanter's deck that plays Sarah's Sanctum game changer
Speaker 2: that I say, I'm gonna pay to Life to prevent
Speaker 2: all damage from this hurricane for sixty. Yeah, so I'm
Speaker 2: gonna take two. You guys all take sixty.
Speaker 1: That's a combo, but.
Speaker 2: It takes like fifteen cards in my deck to happen. Sure,
Speaker 2: I've got Alenda. It's got one game changer with endgame
Speaker 2: three card endgame combo. It's got like the the one
Speaker 2: that puts a plus one. When a creature dies and
Speaker 2: gives you a servo, you sack the servo and Alenda
Speaker 2: gets a counter. You get a servo. Yeah, and you
Speaker 2: make infinite manna to like torment somebody to death. Yes,
Speaker 2: so it's three or four cards. Endgame costs a bunch
Speaker 2: of man Sure. I've got Lord of Tresserhorn one game
Speaker 2: changer in there. I don't even remember what it is.
Speaker 2: Probably it isn't Psychonic Drift.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's rift.
Speaker 2: It's got infect to end the game, and it's got
Speaker 2: like deal ten or deal twenty to you with one attack.
Speaker 2: I've got orvar the all form. It's got one game changer,
Speaker 2: cyclonic rift again and late game three card combo. It
Speaker 2: can chain extra turn sure, which actually is an accidental combo,
Speaker 2: which Gavin's article covers. I didn't know that that was
Speaker 2: in there until it happened one time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes you just are putting shit in.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I guess. I five mana TimewARP and my
Speaker 2: wizard that gets something back from my graveyard with the
Speaker 2: laboratory that bounces a wizard. It's like an eight mana
Speaker 2: take infinite turns now, which is enough. Yeah, Souron upgraded
Speaker 2: pre Con one game changer, and then Bryan Stout Arm
Speaker 2: one game changer. That's where my smothering tithe is because
Speaker 2: Boros Yes, and all of my fast manna that would
Speaker 2: be in that deck that has all my eight drops.
Speaker 2: The fling is all in bruvac. Okay, let me who's
Speaker 2: your threes?
Speaker 1: Seventeen of them. We're gonna go real fast. Here we go.
Speaker 1: So we've got the necro bloom. That's the closest thing
Speaker 1: to a CDH deck that I have right now. And
Speaker 1: it's a it's technically a three. No infinite combo in
Speaker 1: that one. It's just got the indeterminate.
Speaker 2: GRAI you know what in determine it dredge isn't extra turn,
Speaker 2: but eliminates agency or eliminates your opponents actively participating. Right,
Speaker 2: stop me, or you stop me, or watch me for
Speaker 2: ten minutes.
Speaker 1: I got Rondas rolling dice and making dragons a Patra
Speaker 1: mex neck. Then we got Nico. That's the sharp farting.
Speaker 1: That's the one that makes the enchantments that turn into clones.
Speaker 2: That's redundancy, Brander. You don't have to say sharp farting.
Speaker 2: You can just say sharding.
Speaker 1: But I'm I'm farting shark, no meanings, sharks tokens. If oh,
Speaker 1: I get I've got avy, I got av Everything costs
Speaker 1: seven storm rev. That one I think could be a
Speaker 1: lot higher. Nor in the second that should be a
Speaker 1: one or two. Also, it's got some game changes. Nor
Speaker 1: in the second yeah, Nor in the first is also
Speaker 1: a three.
Speaker 2: Way only three less than three game changers?
Speaker 1: Ye, no two, Oh there's three. There's three. Sorry, And
Speaker 1: to Ralph is a three. I think it could probably
Speaker 1: go higher based on play one card and win. Give
Speaker 1: a that Trelph. Full point is if Ralph is in play,
Speaker 1: I can play virtually any card in it and just win.
Speaker 2: Yes, that that's like a single card combo with your commander.
Speaker 2: I know that the cards Interrelf are like Earthquake when
Speaker 2: there's multiple creatures on the table. I would count that
Speaker 2: as a late game combo because A there's got to
Speaker 2: be multiple creatures and B you have to have enough.
Speaker 1: Mana the Earthquake them for six or seven Manna.
Speaker 2: Time's number of creatures is how much damage they're gonna take,
Speaker 2: and you have to have that much, right, So that's
Speaker 2: a late game combo.
Speaker 1: That's fine. So we got August. We talked about that one.
Speaker 1: That's the one that should be a one. But it's
Speaker 1: got the one ring in it. Uh Omnathlocus of Rage
Speaker 1: talks Rail is a level three. My Brutal Clad is
Speaker 1: a level three Bayloff, Baritil that's everything has God Glyssa
Speaker 1: that's oops all death Touch, but I don't think it
Speaker 1: should probably be in there, but it plays a man
Speaker 1: of all probably nine. By the end of the game.
Speaker 1: I got Herobi I think that's the solid three and
Speaker 1: Obeca one. Now, this one was a little bit tricky
Speaker 1: because I wasn't sure how to count the extra turns
Speaker 1: because Obeca has seven extra turn spells in privy counts,
Speaker 1: So I don't know if that makes it a four
Speaker 1: because the rest of the cards is like either cards
Speaker 1: with Myriad because I don't have universes beyond cards to
Speaker 1: replace them with yet and universes beyond cards mostly from
Speaker 1: Doctor Who that costs like eight or nine. It's on
Speaker 1: Sidewalk Slam. I've played it locally here lots. I don't
Speaker 1: know if that's a four because it has extra turns
Speaker 1: in it, it doesn't repeat them. It just basically gives
Speaker 1: all my dudes here.
Speaker 2: You know what, it's a tricky one. If you could go,
Speaker 2: if you could go like time Warp, I'm gonna do
Speaker 2: my turn and attack and bullshit and then untap and
Speaker 2: top deck an extra turnspell. Al Ron's Epiphany take an
Speaker 2: extra turn, do my thing and attack and stuff, and
Speaker 2: then untap regrowth, get time warp back or or whatever,
Speaker 2: cast from gravy or top deck, another one, snapcast or
Speaker 2: ma like, have another one in your hand. I think
Speaker 2: that puts it into four. If you've got seven extra
Speaker 2: turn cats cards, I can't do.
Speaker 1: Any of that shit that Ryan just said, except for
Speaker 1: draw them off the top.
Speaker 2: But yeah, sure, as if you're not playing card draw
Speaker 2: as if you didn't want to draw them off the top,
Speaker 2: if the opportunity existed or presented itself, you would do it. Yes,
Speaker 2: So I think that puts it into the four. Unintent
Speaker 2: sure sure?
Speaker 1: Sure?
Speaker 2: Is that all your threes?
Speaker 1: Those are all my threes?
Speaker 2: We said the really fat how many fours you got?
Speaker 1: I have four fours?
Speaker 2: No five, four fours?
Speaker 1: No five?
Speaker 2: Okay, I've got three fours and one of them surprised me.
Speaker 2: I have got balth Or the Defiled. It's got early
Speaker 2: game combos ye In Byrexian Altar and Grave Crawler as
Speaker 2: early as probably turned two, no, probably turned three something else.
Speaker 2: I need to have another zombie as if there's no
Speaker 2: other one drop zombies in the deck, and I've and
Speaker 2: it's also gotten familiar hole everything with Assault Monolith and
Speaker 2: mesmeric orb.
Speaker 1: What happened last time you tried that?
Speaker 2: Shut up, Rebecca, Yeah, there we go. And the other
Speaker 2: thing because it's only got two game changers in it.
Speaker 2: The other thing that it's got is many, many tutors.
Speaker 2: Only two of those tutors are game changers Demonic and Vampiric,
Speaker 2: but there's also a Grim and a Cruel and multiple
Speaker 2: zombies that tutor like cityc and stuff, and there's things
Speaker 2: that tutor directly to my graveyard. There's like three of
Speaker 2: those and they're also zombies. Right, So.
Speaker 1: It can do the.
Speaker 2: Thing that it does very consistently. So I can't in
Speaker 2: good faith play it at a two as like a Typo.
Speaker 1: Or Kindred deck.
Speaker 2: I can't at three, say when cast a tutor Nextern Tutor,
Speaker 2: Nextern Tutor, nexter and combo.
Speaker 1: Can't do that at power level.
Speaker 2: Yeah right. My other one is Marvel multiple tutors again,
Speaker 2: including Perentity Biss.
Speaker 1: That's the chain Expert turns when we talked about earlier.
Speaker 2: Chane Extra turns, and then my sixty.
Speaker 1: Eight land deck. Huh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it can add Nauseum tutor in ole deck in
Speaker 2: one circumstance. On turn two, when I go first and
Speaker 2: I play the green card, that says, whenever my opponent
Speaker 2: plays the land, I can play a landing burgeoning, and
Speaker 2: then player two and three and four and then me
Speaker 2: play a land. And I have an ad nauseum in
Speaker 2: my starter, I can add nauseum at the end of
Speaker 2: player four's turn.
Speaker 1: That is good.
Speaker 2: But the reason it's in four is because it's got
Speaker 2: four game changers. Yep, it's got ad nauseum, it's got
Speaker 2: cyclonic rift, it's got glacial chasm, and then it's got
Speaker 2: ancient two something else. I don't remember the agent, right, No,
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'ms diamond. No, I don't remember what it is. Well,
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's got a very very expensive mana base. And I
Speaker 2: love how this this bracket system says nothing about that.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, how many times have you ever been hit
Speaker 2: with like a turn one you play down a turn
Speaker 2: one duel land and the guy's like, oh, joking or not.
Speaker 1: Know we're playing CDH bro right.
Speaker 2: I'm like, dude, I don't know. I just I've been
Speaker 2: playing Magic for twenty years.
Speaker 1: I just have this. It's fine. I was actually gonna say, like,
Speaker 1: one of the things that's listed on those brackets between
Speaker 1: I would say two and three is how many of
Speaker 1: your lands come into play on tap? And I let
Speaker 1: sounds kind of stupid, but like, if you look at
Speaker 1: a pre con manabase, they suck, and they suck not
Speaker 1: because they can't make your colors, because fifty percent of
Speaker 1: your lands come into play fucking tap unless you do
Speaker 1: something else. You have this many opponents, you have this
Speaker 1: many basics, you show them this many cards in your hand,
Speaker 1: et cetera. Right, you can't just play your shit. You
Speaker 1: have to meet all these other fucking requirements. And if
Speaker 1: you have a manabase that doesn't need that, I would
Speaker 1: suggest that that could push your deck a little bit further.
Speaker 2: You could get online, as it were.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe a turn sooner, especially when you're playing a
Speaker 1: three four, five color deck, where like you're playing.
Speaker 2: Now, what is a turn sooner in terms of what
Speaker 2: bracket my deck falls into?
Speaker 1: Exact's the question, right, And that's the difference between playing like,
Speaker 1: can your deck reliably play a colored one drop? If
Speaker 1: the answer is no, your deck is a two because
Speaker 1: it's a pre con and all your lands suck.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And when when we say I don't know.
Speaker 1: One game changer can move my deck down.
Speaker 2: If I rule zero it, or it can move it
Speaker 2: up in the in the sense that I've got four
Speaker 2: game changers now, right, what is a man of base
Speaker 2: with perfect maunt, a dual, shocks, fetches in terms of
Speaker 2: speeding my deck up? Maybe a turn? Does that move
Speaker 2: my deck up a category? Or can I still say, oh,
Speaker 2: it's a two, but I play shocks and fetches and duels.
Speaker 1: I don't think right, Actually, I don't think should actually
Speaker 1: be a thing, but it should be a consideration. It
Speaker 1: does matter in early games. I think it does matter
Speaker 1: how good you're how often do you get I think
Speaker 1: I think that is something that should be taken into consideration.
Speaker 2: I think it shouldn't unless you're unless you're playing a
Speaker 2: very powerful deck that fits into three.
Speaker 1: That would be.
Speaker 2: That could that you could say, I'll play my three
Speaker 2: in this ced H pod just once it's the only
Speaker 2: deck I brought. Right, there's the difference. I have meta
Speaker 2: considerations that one manna that comes into play untapped makes
Speaker 2: the difference my shockland versus my duel land when I'm
Speaker 2: at nauseum makes the difference. The the tropical Island into
Speaker 2: Manadork on turn one makes the difference. And that's when
Speaker 2: you're moving from four to five. But what's your force?
Speaker 1: Okay, my force?
Speaker 2: You got four fours.
Speaker 1: I got four fours, and this is some of these
Speaker 1: are weird, and the first two I don't agree with.
Speaker 1: It's only because game changes.
Speaker 2: Hold on, sorry, editor, Joe, I know we're a touch long,
Speaker 2: that we're almost We're just about done here.
Speaker 1: Coma Coma Cosmo Serpent is a Voltron deck, but it
Speaker 1: plays your Guardianship, it plays Manivault, it plays Force of
Speaker 1: Will and one other one ancient too, because my commander
Speaker 1: costs seven, nine, eleven, thirteen fifteen, and I have to
Speaker 1: play her again because my deck cannot win without her
Speaker 1: and I want to protect her. Next one all three sons.
Speaker 2: Glory is a four because probably game changers, right.
Speaker 1: Because it plays Smothering Time, it plays Trouble in Pairs,
Speaker 1: it plays Drandith Magistrate, it plays Man of Aol. Yep,
Speaker 1: now it's a four apparently.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And while and here's the thing about having more
Speaker 2: than four fours or four game changers is what if
Speaker 2: you play like on turn three a game changer game,
Speaker 2: turn four game changer, Turn five game changer. You're probably
Speaker 2: gonna win that game, as the game were probably gonna
Speaker 2: win if you play a bunch of those game changers.
Speaker 2: I think that's a solid way to like, Judge, do.
Speaker 1: I want these?
Speaker 2: Am I gonna win if I cast multiple of them
Speaker 2: in a game? That The answer is probably yeah.
Speaker 1: Probably, Yeah. This one I think probably is exactly where
Speaker 1: it belongs to Sliver Queen. That deck is basically only.
Speaker 2: Three queen, and that's how people will treat it.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's got five game changers in it, all tutors
Speaker 1: and smothering Time and the last one and this is
Speaker 1: the one that I don't agree with because you have
Speaker 1: to look at the list and not have an emotional
Speaker 1: response to what it is is attracts and it has
Speaker 1: six game changers in it, including both of those creators
Speaker 1: we talked about on the pre show, and then the
Speaker 1: tutors to find them and a smothering tithe to help
Speaker 1: play them. This is a deck that the threat curve,
Speaker 1: the actual curve starts at three. Yeah, nothing that impacts
Speaker 1: the game before three. I'm not playing a threatening creature
Speaker 1: until six or seven.
Speaker 2: Manna.
Speaker 1: Here's even then. They don't as I got your back. Though.
Speaker 2: Here's the thing is that's exact. That sounds exactly like
Speaker 2: a commander deck. That sounds like high power commander deck.
Speaker 2: Who's your commander, attracsa, what are you doing casting all
Speaker 2: the prayeders? How are you doing it fast mana and
Speaker 2: or other game changers that provide me mana above curve. Yes,
Speaker 2: that's commander deck, bro Like, that's it.
Speaker 1: That's what it is.
Speaker 2: So is it a four?
Speaker 1: Like? Would it be as close to CDH as you
Speaker 1: can get? Absolutely?
Speaker 2: No, no, no, And that's not the point of four.
Speaker 2: The four isn't the ceiling before CEDH.
Speaker 1: The four is.
Speaker 2: That's not like one level off of penthouse or ceiling
Speaker 2: or rooftop. It's powerful commander and that exists in this
Speaker 2: huge just mecha space. That is commander and that's commander. Like,
Speaker 2: why that's commander to me? Like, I have no other
Speaker 2: way to say it. But five, If you have to
Speaker 2: ask the difference, you're in the four category. Yes, that's
Speaker 2: that's how. That's how all Chiller No Philer, Miller told me,
Speaker 2: Like the difference. If you have to ask, what's the
Speaker 2: difference between four and five?
Speaker 1: You're playing four, you're playing a four.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know that my Animar deck isn't a four,
Speaker 2: correct because I have cards in there that are specifically
Speaker 2: to stop other cards that I know are great against
Speaker 2: my deck that are outside of Animar's color like protections
Speaker 2: that are one drop, counterspells that get tutors and demonic consultation.
Speaker 2: I've got things in there that allow me to respond
Speaker 2: to things that are going to try and stop my combos.
Speaker 2: That's the difference. Yes, I know that I need to
Speaker 2: beat these things that are in the meta of competitive and.
Speaker 1: That's what makes the CDCH deck in my opinion, with
Speaker 1: this bracket system, which is what I really like, is
Speaker 1: it's totally about intention and if you build a deck
Speaker 1: with the intention of beating the CDH meta, which we
Speaker 1: don't talk about a lot here but Gemstone John certainly does.
Speaker 1: Are we gonna hear that?
Speaker 2: I don't know, LB. Can you turn the furnace off?
Speaker 2: Just hit the switch. I appreciate that.
Speaker 1: Thank you, my guy.
Speaker 2: So when you go into a light switch, it shuts
Speaker 2: the furnace off.
Speaker 1: Behind the fridge. When you go into with the intention
Speaker 1: of fighting a meta, then you're playing in the CDH meta. Yes,
Speaker 1: just building a deck to be as strong as it
Speaker 1: possibly can. It's probably a four if you're seeing if
Speaker 1: you're seeing hydro blast, red elemental blast, your.
Speaker 2: Offer you can't refuse right your mental misstep.
Speaker 1: Those are I'm not gonna say those are ultimately cards,
Speaker 1: but those are cards that you're gonna run into more
Speaker 1: often because you're trying to stop a specific thing from happening.
Speaker 1: And I would argue that that's the difference between a
Speaker 1: four and a five in this particular.
Speaker 2: I would agree with all of that.
Speaker 1: That's why my Marxist I would consider CDH, my necro Bloom,
Speaker 1: my Sliver Queen, I would consider not yeah, because they're
Speaker 1: those decks are just raw power, try and win. As
Speaker 1: Marxist was there, okay, he's they're gonna try and counter
Speaker 1: spell me. They're gonna try and fuck with my man,
Speaker 1: and they're gonna do all this stuff.
Speaker 2: Protect and my Animar and Bruvac are exactly the same.
Speaker 2: It's counter spells to protect on curve or counterspell up.
Speaker 2: When I'm trying to cast or spend six man on
Speaker 2: a turn, I need free counter spells because it's the
Speaker 2: only way I can cast a thing. And we go
Speaker 2: back to force a negation that we were talking about
Speaker 2: yesterday on the pre show forced negation not even that
Speaker 2: good in in my uh because I can't cast it
Speaker 2: for free on my own turn. That's a consideration that
Speaker 2: I have to make. Do I play that card or not?
Speaker 2: I do I do because it's good it stops my opponent.
Speaker 2: But that's the kind of thing that you think about,
Speaker 2: or that's the kind of thing that is a meta consideration,
Speaker 2: like Gavin's article Foxible. Yes, so, man, I wish I
Speaker 2: wish we had another hour. I wish we had another
Speaker 2: whole week that we could talk about it.
Speaker 1: We could do it next week, finish it off. We
Speaker 1: could talk about the actual list we talked about a
Speaker 1: little on the pre show. Yep. Maybe we can actually
Speaker 1: delve into some of the card choices. What we would
Speaker 1: add it, we would take off. We can take some
Speaker 1: of the nation's suggestions if you leave them down in
Speaker 1: the comments.
Speaker 2: I got another one too. We can talk about how
Speaker 2: the Game Changers List acts as a buffer to get
Speaker 2: banned or to get unbanned. We could talk about how
Speaker 2: the Game Changers List affects card prices. That's some emptg Financial.
Speaker 2: You know how many cards spiked when they when when
Speaker 2: Gavin said, we're looking at taking cards off the band
Speaker 2: list and putting them on the game changer list. How
Speaker 2: many cards spiked?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Check check your fricking band cards in your binder and
Speaker 2: see if your dock side is like still deflated in value?
Speaker 1: Good? All nine of them, all.
Speaker 2: Nine of them great? And my one rings all nine
Speaker 2: of them.
Speaker 1: I don't have one of them.
Speaker 2: I got you too, well do the sign off, thank
Speaker 2: the business Daddy's.
Speaker 1: We got to get out of here, all right, guys, please,
Speaker 1: we do want to talk about your choices for the
Speaker 1: what's what's the list called game changer list, So leave
Speaker 1: them in the comments below, send them to us at
Speaker 1: Commander Cookoad at gmail dot com, put them in the discord.
Speaker 1: It's one of the great benefits to being a patreon
Speaker 1: over at patreon dot com slash CEO podcast. Every little
Speaker 1: bit helps me, really really do appreciate you guys helping
Speaker 1: the show grow and stay afloat and do all that stuff.
Speaker 1: Keep us in these sweet digs with cool TVs behind.
Speaker 2: Us, and loud furnaces and the extra loud.
Speaker 1: Furnaces that keep us warm when it's minus forty outside
Speaker 1: like it has been all mother fucking week. Thank you
Speaker 1: very much Diffusion Gaming Online dot com and you can
Speaker 1: special promo code CEO Holiday Idiot five percent off all
Speaker 1: your game changing stuff and deck boxes and playmats and
Speaker 1: and and and for whatever you want them Psychlonic Rift.
Speaker 1: And finally, thank you very much to Pile of Bones
Speaker 1: Brewing Co. They are the second coolest thing to comm
Speaker 1: Oto Regina and they keep us full of beer and
Speaker 1: delightful tastes which we all really appreciate. There's Ryan posing
Speaker 1: next to a can. Don't hold it against that can.
Speaker 1: I guess we should also thank producer Dragon for filling
Speaker 1: in for producer Gary and the rest of the family
Speaker 1: here at the dufferin Avenue Media Network for giving us
Speaker 1: a place to call home and produce this show. And
Speaker 1: thanks again you for being here. We're gonna be blacked.
Speaker 1: Talk more brackets on the next exciting episode of cook
Speaker 1: Maner cook Cout podcast in our