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<v Speaker 1>I want you to I want you to picture a garage,

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<v Speaker 1>like a really high end modern.

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<v Speaker 2>Garage, Okay, I'm picturing it.

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<v Speaker 1>And on the left side, you've got the absolute cutting

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<v Speaker 1>edge of automotive engineering. Let's say a brand new, gleaming

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<v Speaker 1>Tesla or maybe Elucid Air.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, something really sleek, exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>It's got the self driving AI, the massive touch screens,

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<v Speaker 1>the over the air updates. It is the future.

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<v Speaker 2>It's sexy. It's what everyone wants to drive right now, right, and.

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<v Speaker 1>That represents modern coding languages, your Python, your rust go

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<v Speaker 1>things like that. Yeah, But then I want you to

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<v Speaker 1>look over to the right side of this garage. O.

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<v Speaker 1>Sitting on cinder blocks covered in maybe forty years of dust,

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<v Speaker 1>is a rusted out Model T Ford. It looks like

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<v Speaker 1>it belongs in a museum, sounds out a place. It does.

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<v Speaker 1>But here's the twist. You pop the hood of that

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<v Speaker 1>shiny k need Tesla and the engine inside it. It's

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<v Speaker 1>the Model T engine.

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<v Speaker 2>That is a terrifying image, honestly, but it's painfully accurate.

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<v Speaker 1>It really is. Yeah, Because we're ta talking go to

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<v Speaker 1>technology that feels ancient, almost prehistoric in computer years, yet

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<v Speaker 1>it is currently running the back end of your bank.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the logistics system delivering your packages.

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<v Speaker 2>And crucially, it is installed on every single Windows computer in.

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<v Speaker 1>Existence right now, Yes, every single one.

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<v Speaker 2>We are talking about batch scripting. I've heard it called

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<v Speaker 2>the cockroach of the IT world.

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<v Speaker 1>Cockroach feels a little harsh, but I kind of get it.

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<v Speaker 1>It just won't die.

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<v Speaker 2>It won't, and honestly it shouldn't. It's way too integrated

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<v Speaker 2>into the bedrock of our digital infrastructure.

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<v Speaker 1>So today we're doing a deep dive into a really

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<v Speaker 1>fascinating source. It's called the Book of Batch Scripting From

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<v Speaker 1>Fundamentals to Advance Automation by Jack McLarney. It's great read,

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<v Speaker 1>it is, and the mission for this deep dive is

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<v Speaker 1>pretty clear. We want to figure out why this nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>eighties technology, which is rooted in MS doos, is still

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<v Speaker 1>so vital.

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<v Speaker 2>But we also need to warn you. McLarney makes it

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<v Speaker 2>very clear in the book that batch is a minefield.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh absolutely, it's powerful, but it is just full of traps.

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<v Speaker 2>He actually coins a term for this, which I absolutely love.

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<v Speaker 2>He calls them bat beats. Bat beats, yeah, like caveats,

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<v Speaker 2>but specific to batch. A bat beat is basically a

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<v Speaker 2>quirk or a trap in the language that just doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>exist in modern coding.

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<v Speaker 1>Right because modern languages have safety rails exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>But in Batch, the interpreter is incredibly literal or sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>just plain weird in a way that can completely destroy

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<v Speaker 2>your entire workflow if you aren't careful.

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<v Speaker 1>And we have a list of the nastiest ones to

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<v Speaker 1>get through today, we're going to look at the space trap,

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<v Speaker 1>the Octal Horror Story, which is my absolute.

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<v Speaker 2>Favorite, by the way, oh it's a classic.

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<v Speaker 1>And the inception logic of nested variables. But let's start

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<v Speaker 1>with the basics what the book calls the wild West

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<v Speaker 1>of variables.

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<v Speaker 2>The wild West is definitely the right way to put it.

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<v Speaker 2>There is no sheriff in this town at all.

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<v Speaker 1>So in most languages, if I want to write code,

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<v Speaker 1>I have to be specific. I tell the computer, Hey,

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<v Speaker 1>this variable is a number, or this variable is a

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<v Speaker 1>string of text. There were rules.

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<v Speaker 2>Batch doesn't care about any of that, not at all.

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<v Speaker 2>In Batch, everything is created x nihilo out of nothing. Intrinsically,

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<v Speaker 2>to the Batch interpreter, everything is just a string of bytes.

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<v Speaker 2>It doesn't know the difference between the number five and

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<v Speaker 2>the word five.

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<v Speaker 1>Until you force it to do math, which leads to

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<v Speaker 1>what I think is the most infuriating yet kind of

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<v Speaker 1>hilarious rookie mistake in the book The Space Trap.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh Man, the Space Trap. This is a classic batv.

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<v Speaker 2>I have seen grown engineers, people with master's degrees, completely

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<v Speaker 2>pull their hair out over this.

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<v Speaker 1>So walk us through this. Let's say I want to

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<v Speaker 1>set a variable named x to the value hello.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>In a normal language, being a tidy person who likes

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<v Speaker 1>readable code, I might type set x, then a space,

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<v Speaker 1>an equal sign, another space, and then hello. I put

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<v Speaker 1>spaces around the equal sign because it looks nice.

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<v Speaker 2>It's clean, right, And in Python our JavaScript, that's fine.

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<v Speaker 2>The computer ignores the white space. That knows what you mean.

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<v Speaker 2>But the batch interpreter it is aggressively literal.

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<v Speaker 1>Aggressively literal.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, if you type set x space equal space hello,

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<v Speaker 2>the interpreter doesn't say, oh they want x to equal hello,

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<v Speaker 2>does it do? It reads exactly what you typed. It

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<v Speaker 2>sees the space before the equal sign and includes it

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<v Speaker 2>in the name. So now you have a variable named

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<v Speaker 2>x space.

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<v Speaker 1>Wait xspace literally.

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<v Speaker 2>Literally, and then it sees the space after the equal

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<v Speaker 2>sign and includes that in the value. So the value

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<v Speaker 2>isn't Hello, it's space Hello.

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<v Speaker 1>So I haven't said X to hello at all. I've

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<v Speaker 1>set x space to space hello exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>And here is the kicker. If you try to use

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<v Speaker 2>that variable later by calling just x, which is what

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<v Speaker 2>you think you named it, it won't work because X

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't exist, only X space exists.

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<v Speaker 1>That is maddening. And since you can't see a space

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<v Speaker 1>character with the naked eye, you'd be steering at your

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<v Speaker 1>code for hours wondering why it's broken.

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<v Speaker 2>Precisely, you're looking at the screen shouting, I defined X.

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<v Speaker 2>It's right there. But you didn't define X. You defined

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<v Speaker 2>x space.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>That's why their author mcclerney practically begs you to stop

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<v Speaker 2>using basic notepad. You need an editor like Notepad plas

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<v Speaker 2>plus where you can turn on show space and tab.

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<v Speaker 2>You have to see the invisible characters or badge will

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<v Speaker 2>destroy you.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So once we've successfully set a variable, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>without the space as, we run into another issue, usefulness.

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<v Speaker 1>Usually when I set a variable and a command prompt,

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<v Speaker 1>it vanishes the second I close the window.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the ephemeral nature of the standard set command. It's

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<v Speaker 2>only a live for that specific session. It's like short

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<v Speaker 2>term memory. Yeah, but mcclarney highlights a tool that I

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<v Speaker 2>think is vastly underused, sex the extreme set Essentially, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>SETX allows you to save a variable into the system

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<v Speaker 2>environment permanently. It actually survives a reboot.

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<v Speaker 1>So why does that matter? Give me a real world

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<v Speaker 1>scenario where i'd use that.

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<v Speaker 2>Imagine you're a developer. You're building an app that needs

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<v Speaker 2>to know where a database is located. You don't want

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<v Speaker 2>to type that really long filepath every single time you

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<v Speaker 2>open a terminal to test your.

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<v Speaker 1>Code, right, That would be pedious.

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<v Speaker 2>So you can use set x to burn that location

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<v Speaker 2>into your machine's environment.

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<v Speaker 1>So it becomes part of the furniture exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Every time you open your tools, the variable is just there.

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<v Speaker 2>You don't have to retype it. It's a huge time

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<v Speaker 2>saver for setting up development environments. But again, you have

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<v Speaker 2>to be careful because if you set ux a typo,

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<v Speaker 2>that typo is now permanent until you go in and

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<v Speaker 2>fix it.

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<v Speaker 1>High stakes, high reward. Okay, so we've got our variables,

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<v Speaker 1>we're avoiding spaces. Now we need to talk about the

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<v Speaker 1>segment that actually made me laugh out loud while reading

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<v Speaker 1>the octal horror story.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the ultimate batbate. It's a story that perfectly

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<v Speaker 2>illustrates how fragile batch logic can be.

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<v Speaker 1>So the setup is this. The author has a script

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<v Speaker 1>that's been running perfectly for six months. It's a date calculator.

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<v Speaker 1>Its job is to figure out the previous.

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<v Speaker 2>Day, right, simple logic. If today is the fifth, yesterday

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<v Speaker 2>was the fourth. If today's the first, we need to

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<v Speaker 2>go back to the previous month.

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<v Speaker 1>And this works beautifully in January, February, March, all the

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<v Speaker 1>way through July. But then August first rolls around the

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<v Speaker 1>day of doom. The script wakes up, tries to calculate

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<v Speaker 1>the previous month. It takes the current month, which is

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<v Speaker 1>August represented as zero eight, and tries to subtract one

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<v Speaker 1>to get July or zero seven. Simple math eight minus one.

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<v Speaker 2>Equal seven, But the script crashes.

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<v Speaker 1>It just implodes why why on Earth would eight minus

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<v Speaker 1>one crash a computer program?

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<v Speaker 2>It comes down to a legacy holdover from the dawn

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<v Speaker 2>of computing, specifically from the C programming language in Unix.

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<v Speaker 2>In Batch, a leading zero on a number is a signal.

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<v Speaker 2>It tells the interpreter we are not using the decimal system.

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<v Speaker 1>The base ten system that humans use.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, it says we are using octal base eight.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's unpack octal. Most listeners probably haven't thought about

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<v Speaker 1>base eight since high school computer science.

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<v Speaker 2>If ever, so, in our normal base ten system, we

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<v Speaker 2>have digit zero through nine. When we get to ten,

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<v Speaker 2>we roll over. In octal, you only have digit zero

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<v Speaker 2>through seven. That's it. There is no eight, there is

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<v Speaker 2>no eight, and there's no nine. In octaal you count

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<v Speaker 2>zero one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, and the

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<v Speaker 2>next number is ten.

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<v Speaker 1>So when the script saw zero eight, it.

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<v Speaker 2>Saw the zero and switched to octal mode. Then it

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<v Speaker 2>saw the eight and panicked. It's like trying to divide

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<v Speaker 2>by zero. To the back interpreter, zero eight is an

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<v Speaker 2>impossible number. It's a hallucination. It just doesn't exist.

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<v Speaker 1>That is wild. So literally, because the date was August

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<v Speaker 1>first on the calendar, the server process died.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, And the author describes his reaction when he finally

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<v Speaker 2>figured this out. He's looking at the logs, he sees

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<v Speaker 2>the zero eight and he realizes it's the octal bug.

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<v Speaker 2>He just screams oscy tale at the sky.

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<v Speaker 1>He compares it to Captain Kirk screaming con in star

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<v Speaker 1>Trek two.

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<v Speaker 2>I can picture it perfectly, just sheer nerd rage.

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<v Speaker 1>So how do you fix that? Do you just cancel August?

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<v Speaker 2>You have to scrub the data. You use substring tricks

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<v Speaker 2>to look at the date. You say, if the first

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<v Speaker 2>character is a zero, delete it. You have to turn

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<v Speaker 2>zero eight into just eight.

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<v Speaker 1>And once it's eight without the.

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<v Speaker 2>Zero, Batch treats it as a decimal and everything is fine.

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<v Speaker 1>It really reinforces the idea that Batch is just a

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<v Speaker 1>language of workarounds.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, it's ductate all the way down. And that leads

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<v Speaker 2>perfectly into the next topic, faking functionality. Because if you're

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<v Speaker 2>coming from Python or Java, you expect certain things. You

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<v Speaker 2>expect to.

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<v Speaker 1>Have boollions, true or false variables.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, and you expect to have floating point numbers, decimals.

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<v Speaker 1>And Batch has neither none, zero.

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<v Speaker 2>So how do you check if something is true or false?

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<v Speaker 1>You have to diyat. The book shows this clever workaround.

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<v Speaker 1>Instead of setting a variable to the abstract concept of true,

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<v Speaker 1>you set the variable to the string true equals equals true.

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<v Speaker 2>Wait, you set the variable to an actual equation exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>So later when you use an if command, you're basically

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<v Speaker 1>pasting that equation into the command, the interpreter checks does

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<v Speaker 1>the string true equal the string truth? Yes, so the

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<v Speaker 1>condition passes. It's crude, but it works.

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<v Speaker 2>That feels like hot wiring a car to get it started.

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<v Speaker 1>That is Batch in a nutshell, right, And it gets

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<v Speaker 1>even messier with math. Say you want to calculate sales tax.

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<v Speaker 1>You need decimals. You need to multiply by one point

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<v Speaker 1>oh seven. Batch can't do decimals. It truncates everything to

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<v Speaker 1>a whole number.

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<v Speaker 2>So how do you do it? The book mentions a

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<v Speaker 2>spade shovel analogy. Right. Mcclarney says, doing floating point math

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<v Speaker 2>in Batch is like digging a foundation with a spade shovel.

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<v Speaker 2>You can do it, but do you really want to?

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<v Speaker 2>The trick is what he calls digital anarchy. Digital anarchy,

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<v Speaker 2>You take your number, say one point ninety nine, You

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<v Speaker 2>treat it as a string of text. You remove the dot.

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<v Speaker 2>Now you have one ninety nine.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so now it's an integer. Batch can handle that, right.

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<v Speaker 2>You do your math on one ninety nine. Let's say

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<v Speaker 2>you double it to three ninety eight. Then you have

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<v Speaker 2>to use substring logic to forcefully paste the decimal point

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<v Speaker 2>back in before the last two digits. So you manually

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<v Speaker 2>turn three ninety eight back into three point ninety eight.

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<v Speaker 1>You are manually managing the decimal point.

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<v Speaker 2>You are the floating point processor. You are doing the

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<v Speaker 2>job the CPU usually does for you.

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<v Speaker 1>That is dedication. But I guess if it's the only

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<v Speaker 1>tool installed on the server, you do what you have

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<v Speaker 1>to do.

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<v Speaker 2>And that brings us to the feature that sounds the

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<v Speaker 2>most intimidating but is actually the secret weapon of Batch

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<v Speaker 2>power users.

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<v Speaker 1>Delayed expansion set local enabled delete expansion. Sounds like a

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<v Speaker 1>cheat code.

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<v Speaker 2>It basically is. To understand why you need it, you

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<v Speaker 2>have to understand how Batch reads code. Normally, Batch reads

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<v Speaker 2>a full line of code or a block of code

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<v Speaker 2>inside parenthesis and parses it all at once.

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<v Speaker 1>Explain that parsing process a bit.

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<v Speaker 2>Think of it like ordering at a restaurant. In a

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<v Speaker 2>normal language, you order appetizers, you eat them, then you

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<v Speaker 2>order the main course. In Batch without delayed expansion, you

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<v Speaker 2>have to order everything appetizers, main dessert the moment you

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<v Speaker 2>sit down.

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<v Speaker 1>So if I change my mind halfway through the meal,

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<v Speaker 1>too bad.

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<v Speaker 2>The order is already in. In coding terms, if you

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<v Speaker 2>change a variable inside a loop and then try to

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<v Speaker 2>read it inside that same loop. The interpreter won't see

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<v Speaker 2>the change. It already decided what that variable was before

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<v Speaker 2>the loop started.

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<v Speaker 1>That seems like a massive design flaw.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just how it's built in the eighties. But enabled

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<v Speaker 2>delayed expansion fixes it. It allows you to use exclamation

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<v Speaker 2>marks instead of percent signs, like exclamation point variable exclamation point.

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<v Speaker 2>This forces the interpreter to.

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<v Speaker 1>Wait, wait for what.

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<v Speaker 2>It tells the interpreter, don't check this variable when you

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<v Speaker 2>take the order, check it when you actually serve the dish.

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<v Speaker 2>It forces the variable to be evaluated at the exact

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<v Speaker 2>moment of execution.

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<v Speaker 1>Hence delayed expansion precisely.

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<v Speaker 2>And this unlocks something really cool that the author compares

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<v Speaker 2>to the movie Inception nested.

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<v Speaker 1>Variables, variables inside variable.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, with delayed expansion, you can do something like exclamation

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<v Speaker 2>food percent city percent exclamation.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's unpack that. That looks like a typo salad.

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<v Speaker 2>It does, but look at the order of operations. The

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<v Speaker 2>interpreter looks at the percent city percent first. Let's say

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<v Speaker 2>the city variable is Nashville. It resolves that part immediately. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>the overall variable name becomes exclamation food Nashville exclamation ah.

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<v Speaker 1>I see. So it construct the name of the variable

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<v Speaker 1>it wants to find exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>Then it looks up the value of food Nashville, which

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<v Speaker 2>might be hot chicken.

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<v Speaker 1>So you can dynamically change which variable you are looking

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<v Speaker 1>at based on the value of another variable exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>It allows for dynamic coding like arrays and lookups that

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<v Speaker 2>is actually really hard to do in some compiled languages.

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<v Speaker 2>It turns this clunky old scripting language into something surprisingly flexible.

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<v Speaker 1>I love that. It's like finding a secret compartment in

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<v Speaker 1>that rusted out model.

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<v Speaker 2>T a secret compartment that holds a supercomputer.

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<v Speaker 1>So we've covered the logic and the variables. Now we

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<v Speaker 1>need to talk about the heavy lifting moving files, because

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<v Speaker 1>at the end of the day, that's what most people

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<v Speaker 1>use Batch for backups, organizing folders, moving data.

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<v Speaker 2>And there is a clear hierarchy here. It's like an

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<v Speaker 2>evolutionary chart. At the bottom you have the copy command,

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<v Speaker 2>the primitive tool. The expert advice here is simple, do

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<v Speaker 2>not use copy for actual files. It's too basic. It

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<v Speaker 2>stops at the first sign of trouble. Its only real

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<v Speaker 2>use nowadays is concatenation, merging, text files together or creating

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<v Speaker 2>empty files.

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<v Speaker 1>Using the null device, So we graduate to s copy.

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<v Speaker 2>SKP is the workhorse. It's been around forever. It's great

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<v Speaker 2>for single files, and the book highlights two crucial flags

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<v Speaker 2>or options you need to know, slash y and slash F.

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<v Speaker 1>Slash y suppresses the conformation pumped right. Are you sure

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<v Speaker 1>you want to overwrite prompt yes.

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<v Speaker 2>If you are automating a backup that runs at three

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<v Speaker 2>in the morning, you cannot have the script pause to

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<v Speaker 2>ask a question. No one is there to answer it.

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<v Speaker 2>The script will just hang there forever. Slash y just

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<v Speaker 2>says yes to everything, and slash F full paths. It

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<v Speaker 2>forces the LUG to show you exactly where the file

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<v Speaker 2>came from and exactly where it went. Without it, your

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<v Speaker 2>flying blind if something goes wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>But then we reach the final form the robust copy robocopy.

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<v Speaker 2>Robocopy is an absolute beast. It's designed for serious automation.

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<v Speaker 2>It can mirror entire drives, it can resume file transfers

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<v Speaker 2>if the network cuts out. It's incredibly resilient.

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<v Speaker 1>And the logging is intense.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh it's beautiful. Header's speed statistics separate counts for skip files.

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<v Speaker 2>Mismatched files. But there is a batfeat here too. The

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<v Speaker 2>return codes.

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<v Speaker 1>We talked about this before the show. In SAT copy

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<v Speaker 1>a zero means success. Everything is good right.

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<v Speaker 2>In almost all of computing, zero means no error. But

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<v Speaker 2>robocopy it uses powers.

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<v Speaker 1>Of two logicwers of two, So.

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<v Speaker 2>If robic copyer returns to zero, it actually means no errors.

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<v Speaker 2>But I didn't copy anything.

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<v Speaker 1>Wait, so zero is essentially I did nothing right.

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<v Speaker 2>It means the files matched the destination already, so it

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<v Speaker 2>just skipped them.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>If it returns a one, it means I copied one

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<v Speaker 2>or more files successfully.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, that sounds like success.

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<v Speaker 2>But then you have two four, eight, sixteen, and they

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<v Speaker 2>can be combined. This is bitmasking. So if you get

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<v Speaker 2>a return code of three, that means one files copied

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<v Speaker 2>plus two extra files detected.

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<v Speaker 1>So you literally have to do modulo math just to

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<v Speaker 1>figure out if your backup work you do.

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<v Speaker 2>You can't just check if aer a level equals zero.

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<v Speaker 2>You have to check if the air level is less

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<v Speaker 2>than eight. Essentially, it's bizarre, but it gives you a

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<v Speaker 2>granular level of detail that other commands just don't.

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<v Speaker 1>It seems like that's the theme of this entire deep dive.

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<v Speaker 1>Bizarre but useful, it really is.

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<v Speaker 2>It forces you to think differently.

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<v Speaker 1>Which brings us to the philosophy of the book. Mcclerney

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<v Speaker 1>compares being a batch coder to being a Sumerian priest.

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<v Speaker 2>I love this analogy. He says, reading batch code, especially

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<v Speaker 2>when you get into the messy syntax of four loops

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00:16:05.799 --> 00:16:09.960
<v Speaker 2>and delayed expansion, is like reading cuneiform. It looks esoteric,

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<v Speaker 2>it looks cryptic, but if you can read it, you

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<v Speaker 2>have immense power over the machine. You are one of

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<v Speaker 2>the few who can speak the language of the temple.

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<v Speaker 1>And he quotes Woody Guthrie in the epigraph. Any fool

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<v Speaker 1>can make something complicated, it takes a genius to make

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<v Speaker 1>it simple.

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<v Speaker 2>Batch force is simplicity. You don't have libraries, you don't

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<v Speaker 2>have fancy IDEs helping you out. You have raw text commands.

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<v Speaker 2>You are forced to strip the problem down to its

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<v Speaker 2>bare metal logic. And there is something deeply satisfying about that.

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<v Speaker 1>It's digital minimalism.

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<v Speaker 2>It is, and the barrier to entry is zero. That's

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<v Speaker 2>the most important takeaway.

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<v Speaker 1>You don't need to install Python, you don't need to

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<v Speaker 1>set up a compiler, right now you.

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00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:51.799
<v Speaker 2>Can open notepad, you can type echo Hello world, you

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<v Speaker 2>can save it as dot bat, and when you double

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<v Speaker 2>click it, you have written a program. You are officially

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<v Speaker 2>a programmer.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the garage door opener to the world.

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<v Speaker 2>Of codev And honestly, if you can master the logic

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00:17:02.840 --> 00:17:06.880
<v Speaker 2>of preventing an octal crash or figuring out robocopy bit masks,

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00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:10.400
<v Speaker 2>you can learn any other language easily. Batch teaches you

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00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:11.359
<v Speaker 2>to think like the computer.

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<v Speaker 1>So here is a final thought for you to chew on.

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<v Speaker 1>We talked about how a simple date August first, could

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<v Speaker 1>crash a server because of a tiny logic quirk, and

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00:17:21.079 --> 00:17:23.119
<v Speaker 1>how a number is interpreted.

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<v Speaker 2>The octal bug.

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00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:27.599
<v Speaker 1>It makes you wonder what other invisible logic is running

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<v Speaker 1>the world right now. How many banking systems or traffic

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00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:33.640
<v Speaker 1>lights or power grids are running on a dot bat

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00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:36.720
<v Speaker 1>file written in nineteen ninety five, just waiting for a

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<v Speaker 1>specific date or a specific file name to trigger a

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<v Speaker 1>hidden trap.

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<v Speaker 2>That is a terrifying thought. The digital infrastructure of the

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00:17:43.400 --> 00:17:45.920
<v Speaker 2>world is held together by duct tape and set local

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00:17:46.119 --> 00:17:47.359
<v Speaker 2>enabled delayed expansion.

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00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:49.720
<v Speaker 1>And on that note, maybe go check your backups. Thanks

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00:17:49.759 --> 00:17:50.359
<v Speaker 1>for diving in with

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00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:51.319
<v Speaker 2>Us always a pleasure,