WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:02.480 Before we dive in, here's another show you can enjoy 2 00:00:02.520 --> 00:00:05.040 in the True Story FM Family of Entertainment podcast. 3 00:00:06.080 --> 00:00:10.359 Horror movies get a bad rap. They're cheap thrills, mindless core, 4 00:00:10.839 --> 00:00:13.480 not cinema, blah blah blah. 5 00:00:13.599 --> 00:00:16.039 But we here at Sitting in the Dark no better. 6 00:00:16.519 --> 00:00:18.239 We know that horror is more than. 7 00:00:18.160 --> 00:00:21.160 Just jump scares and chainsaws. It's a reflection of our 8 00:00:21.199 --> 00:00:22.120 deepest fears. 9 00:00:22.320 --> 00:00:25.920 Our anxieties are okay, and there's a lot of jump 10 00:00:25.920 --> 00:00:26.760 scares and chain saws. 11 00:00:28.079 --> 00:00:30.960 Join us Pete Wright, Tommy Mets the Third, Kyle Wilson, 12 00:00:30.960 --> 00:00:33.600 and Kenan DS as we cut into the dark heart 13 00:00:33.679 --> 00:00:34.960 of horror cinema. 14 00:00:35.119 --> 00:00:38.240 Every episode we explore a different facet of the genre, 15 00:00:38.520 --> 00:00:42.119 from survival horror to home invasions, from zombies to birds. 16 00:00:42.399 --> 00:00:45.520 We tickle the tropes, analyze the angles, and sharpen our 17 00:00:45.560 --> 00:00:46.119 own axes. 18 00:00:46.119 --> 00:00:48.679 Along the way, we'll introduce you to the classics that 19 00:00:48.759 --> 00:00:52.399 shaped the genre than the modern masterpieces that are pushing 20 00:00:52.600 --> 00:00:54.320 the boundaries of terror. 21 00:00:54.520 --> 00:00:55.079 Sitting in the. 22 00:00:55.119 --> 00:00:58.759 Dark is your guide to navigating the terrifying, thrilling, and 23 00:00:58.880 --> 00:01:02.560 sometimes us bad world of horror movies. 24 00:01:02.920 --> 00:01:05.760 We'll help you understand why we love to be scared 25 00:01:07.040 --> 00:01:10.719 and maybe even convert you into a horror fan yourself. 26 00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:13.519 So turn off the nights, close the. 27 00:01:13.480 --> 00:01:16.040 Basement door, enjoina. 28 00:01:18.159 --> 00:01:18.439 Do. 29 00:01:21.879 --> 00:01:24.439 In a world where podcasts are a dime a dozen, 30 00:01:24.799 --> 00:01:27.280 one show dares to stand out from the rest. The 31 00:01:27.319 --> 00:01:30.239 Film Board, a podcast unafraid to tell it like it is. 32 00:01:30.640 --> 00:01:34.400 We're here for one reason, and one reason only downloads. 33 00:01:34.519 --> 00:01:37.640 That's right. We review new release movies because that's what 34 00:01:37.840 --> 00:01:38.879 gets people's attention. 35 00:01:38.959 --> 00:01:41.000 But just because we're in it for the clicks doesn't 36 00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:42.959 mean we don't take our job seriously. 37 00:01:43.439 --> 00:01:46.000 We're part of the next real family of film podcasts, 38 00:01:46.079 --> 00:01:47.120 and we're proud of it. 39 00:01:47.200 --> 00:01:50.079 Our reviews are just as insightful and thought provoking as 40 00:01:50.120 --> 00:01:51.879 any of our other film podcasts. 41 00:01:51.920 --> 00:01:53.959 It's just that this podcast is all about that. 42 00:01:54.000 --> 00:01:55.439 Sweet, sweet seo. 43 00:01:55.760 --> 00:01:58.159 The nectar squows from the tree of being. 44 00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:02.640 We're only human, but we're also creators, and creators eat 45 00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:03.680 clicks to survive. 46 00:02:03.799 --> 00:02:06.959 So if you want honest, unfiltered opinions on the very 47 00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:09.199 latest movies right on opening weekend. 48 00:02:08.879 --> 00:02:12.759 Delivered with the self awareness of a team looking for downloads. 49 00:02:12.159 --> 00:02:14.360 Then tune in to the Film Board. 50 00:02:15.800 --> 00:02:19.840 Where every download counts. But yours counts the most. 51 00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:32.479 Hello, and welcome to this episode of Superhero Ethics. Today 52 00:02:32.560 --> 00:02:35.439 is a joyous day for the small proportion of us 53 00:02:35.479 --> 00:02:39.039 who are both geeks and loves sports ball, specifically baseball 54 00:02:39.080 --> 00:02:41.280 and bat ball and all the rest of it. They 55 00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:44.120 see his opening day for the rest of the league 56 00:02:44.120 --> 00:02:45.960 that didn't start in Japan's So I am in my 57 00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:48.800 New York Mets best. But today we're here to talk 58 00:02:48.800 --> 00:02:51.439 about a topic that we've kind of been bouncing around 59 00:02:51.479 --> 00:02:55.759 thinking about but became kind of perfect for today, the 60 00:02:55.800 --> 00:03:00.159 ethics of remakes, reboots and adaptations. Now, if you're one 61 00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:02.360 of the loyal fans who's been tracking us on our 62 00:03:02.479 --> 00:03:05.599 Google calendar, which I strongly recommend you do, information about 63 00:03:05.639 --> 00:03:07.319 that is in the show notes, along with everything else 64 00:03:07.319 --> 00:03:10.199 about this podcast. You'll see we're trying to announce our 65 00:03:10.319 --> 00:03:14.280 upcoming podcasts as often as we can so that people 66 00:03:14.360 --> 00:03:16.360 can get ready for them. They can send in questions 67 00:03:16.400 --> 00:03:18.879 and thoughts and discussion, and so they can if they 68 00:03:18.919 --> 00:03:23.319 want to join us in our live broadcast every Thursday 69 00:03:23.360 --> 00:03:26.840 at noon twelve o'clock Central. That'll change sometimes, but that's 70 00:03:26.879 --> 00:03:31.599 the general time and today. The reason I mentioned all 71 00:03:31.639 --> 00:03:33.879 that is if you've been looking ahead, you would have 72 00:03:33.919 --> 00:03:36.199 seen that we had scheduled that today we'd be talking 73 00:03:36.199 --> 00:03:40.199 about the first half of the Daredevil TV show. We 74 00:03:40.240 --> 00:03:42.719 did an episode on episodes one and two. When I 75 00:03:42.759 --> 00:03:45.000 made the schedule, we were all pretty excited about it, 76 00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:49.159 me and especially Jessica Plumber, who's a freaking guest on 77 00:03:49.199 --> 00:03:51.120 this podcast and like me, a huge fan of the 78 00:03:51.159 --> 00:03:54.439 character of Daredevil. We thought we were gonna want to 79 00:03:54.479 --> 00:03:56.800 watch the whole season and be really excited to talk 80 00:03:56.800 --> 00:04:01.520 about the first half. Well, that kind of changed within 81 00:04:01.560 --> 00:04:04.520 about the first three minutes of the first episode of 82 00:04:04.599 --> 00:04:08.000 Daredevil Reborn. I won't rehash all of it here. I'm 83 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:09.639 sure it'll come up a little bit, but as you 84 00:04:09.680 --> 00:04:12.319 heard if you listened to our podcast about it, Danielle 85 00:04:12.319 --> 00:04:15.039 and I really didn't like it. We particularly we thought 86 00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:19.240 it was a very unfaithful reboot and adaptation of both 87 00:04:19.319 --> 00:04:22.959 Daredevil character in general, but especially of the character that 88 00:04:23.000 --> 00:04:27.560 had been established in the Netflix MCU and so Rieky 89 00:04:27.600 --> 00:04:29.199 and I had kind of looked at each other and thought, well, 90 00:04:29.199 --> 00:04:31.079 we were a couple other episodes we were trying to schedule, 91 00:04:31.120 --> 00:04:32.839 but we couldn't line up any of them for this week, 92 00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:37.240 and thought, since we're not doing our normal topic because 93 00:04:37.720 --> 00:04:39.839 one of the co hosts is so doesn't like the 94 00:04:39.839 --> 00:04:43.240 way it's being adapted and remade, why don't we about 95 00:04:43.240 --> 00:04:47.199 remaking and adaptation. So that's kind of my pitch and 96 00:04:47.199 --> 00:04:48.680 where I'm coming from, though I promise you do have 97 00:04:48.680 --> 00:04:51.199 a lot of positive things to say as well. But Riki, 98 00:04:51.319 --> 00:04:53.000 for you, what makes this an interesting topic? 99 00:04:55.120 --> 00:05:01.879 Well, most of the franchises that I follow either rebooted 100 00:05:02.680 --> 00:05:06.920 or have continued in a way that is new. I'm 101 00:05:06.920 --> 00:05:09.439 thinking of Star Wars right, Like Star Wars is all 102 00:05:09.560 --> 00:05:14.120 in the same continuity, but for every generation, like a fandom, 103 00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:16.839 there's been kind of a new thing and it's gone 104 00:05:16.920 --> 00:05:21.040 in a different direction than the previous iterations of like 105 00:05:21.120 --> 00:05:24.319 the movies, and now we see the TV shows are 106 00:05:24.360 --> 00:05:28.480 starting to do different things. So I think like these 107 00:05:28.480 --> 00:05:35.360 franchises have become very much like entities in themselves that 108 00:05:35.560 --> 00:05:39.040 adapt with the times and change, and I always find 109 00:05:39.079 --> 00:05:41.920 that interesting, you know. I have a lot of interest 110 00:05:41.959 --> 00:05:44.319 also in the comic book industry, and that of course 111 00:05:44.360 --> 00:05:47.120 has been going on for much longer and has seen 112 00:05:47.839 --> 00:05:53.079 many more changes in characters that have existed almost for 113 00:05:53.160 --> 00:05:56.720 a century now at this point. In some cases, I 114 00:05:56.720 --> 00:06:01.319 think we're coming up on like Superman's hundredth right within. 115 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:03.160 Or so fourteen years away. 116 00:06:03.600 --> 00:06:08.079 Yeah, well, like take a character, take a character like 117 00:06:08.199 --> 00:06:13.839 Superman and what he means to people, and to just 118 00:06:14.319 --> 00:06:19.120 examine like why he endures as a popular character, but 119 00:06:19.240 --> 00:06:22.800 also like how he has changed in many ways. 120 00:06:23.920 --> 00:06:25.399 We really like the way you framed it because I 121 00:06:25.439 --> 00:06:27.160 think you covered a number of the different things we're 122 00:06:27.160 --> 00:06:29.959 going to be talking about today, Because something like Daredevil 123 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:32.759 is kind of a very obvious example of like a 124 00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:35.560 remake or a reboot where they are keeping the same 125 00:06:35.680 --> 00:06:38.839 characters and they're staying in the same visual medium, but 126 00:06:39.079 --> 00:06:41.120 they are in this case and they're sticking with a 127 00:06:41.160 --> 00:06:43.399 lot of the same actors. I don't think any actual 128 00:06:43.480 --> 00:06:46.720 characters have been recast, but they are kind of rebooting 129 00:06:46.720 --> 00:06:50.199 the canonicity, and of course they'll also kind of you know, 130 00:06:50.600 --> 00:06:52.920 so there's discussions about how accurate are there being both 131 00:06:52.959 --> 00:06:56.160 to the comic books but also to the earlier version 132 00:06:56.199 --> 00:06:59.199 of the show. But if you brought up like Star 133 00:06:59.279 --> 00:07:01.759 Wars shows, are's actually a lot of other kind of 134 00:07:01.800 --> 00:07:03.360 things that can happen. Because first of all, there is, 135 00:07:03.399 --> 00:07:06.560 as you said, kind of the over time and over generations. 136 00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:09.759 The world in the nineteen seventies is incredibly different than 137 00:07:09.800 --> 00:07:11.680 the world of the late nineteen nineties and then the 138 00:07:11.720 --> 00:07:14.560 world of the twenty tens. One of our three kind 139 00:07:14.600 --> 00:07:17.560 of major generations of films have come out. But at 140 00:07:17.600 --> 00:07:20.160 the same time, within Star Wars, you've also had the 141 00:07:20.240 --> 00:07:23.879 adaptation of characters from books come and in some ways 142 00:07:23.959 --> 00:07:27.120 full stories coming into live action. You've had like with 143 00:07:27.199 --> 00:07:29.160 the Ahsoka Tales of the Jedi, or of course the 144 00:07:29.240 --> 00:07:32.360 character of General Thran. You've had characters who start out 145 00:07:32.360 --> 00:07:37.360 in animation coming into live action, Ahsoka being the most 146 00:07:37.360 --> 00:07:41.600 obvious example, but Sagerera, a number of others. Thron starts 147 00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:43.560 in the books but then goes to animation before he 148 00:07:43.560 --> 00:07:46.199 comes to live action. And then you've had characters that 149 00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:48.759 have gone the other direction. You know, with the Clone Wars, 150 00:07:48.920 --> 00:07:51.120 you had a lot of characters who started in live action, 151 00:07:51.639 --> 00:07:54.439 then became animated characters, and now are back to being 152 00:07:54.480 --> 00:07:57.720 live action characters. And I think with all of these 153 00:07:57.759 --> 00:08:00.680 there's so many questions that comes up about, you know, 154 00:08:00.759 --> 00:08:02.759 how do we do adaptations, what does it mean to 155 00:08:02.759 --> 00:08:06.720 do an adaptation? All these kind of things, and we're gonna 156 00:08:06.759 --> 00:08:08.519 kind of bounce back and forth with a couple offent 157 00:08:08.519 --> 00:08:10.120 directions of approaching this, but let me kind of just 158 00:08:10.160 --> 00:08:14.720 start with the most general question for you, Riki, why 159 00:08:14.759 --> 00:08:16.800 do you think, well, actually, let mean back up even 160 00:08:16.879 --> 00:08:18.279 a little bit further before I get the kind of 161 00:08:18.319 --> 00:08:20.279 ethics of it. Why do you think we're getting so 162 00:08:20.360 --> 00:08:22.839 many remakes today and reboots? And does it feel like 163 00:08:22.839 --> 00:08:24.959 it's more than there has been in previous years? 164 00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:30.800 It feels like it. One of the stats I guess 165 00:08:30.920 --> 00:08:35.440 I heard from twenty twenty four in movies, like the 166 00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:41.720 top ten grossing movies in theaters were either reboots of 167 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:46.559 things or sequels to existing movies. I don't know that 168 00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:48.720 that was like around November, and I don't know if 169 00:08:48.720 --> 00:08:51.039 it held up all the way through, but I think 170 00:08:51.080 --> 00:08:53.759 like Wicked was like just about to break into the 171 00:08:53.759 --> 00:08:56.519 top ten. And of course that is an adaptation of 172 00:08:56.559 --> 00:08:59.120 a novel slash stage play. 173 00:08:59.320 --> 00:09:02.759 Right, they're both themselves at you know, take ons of 174 00:09:02.799 --> 00:09:06.240 a franchise seventy years old that is literally one hundred 175 00:09:06.279 --> 00:09:06.960 years old. 176 00:09:07.480 --> 00:09:10.799 So I mean, you cannot ask a question like this 177 00:09:11.279 --> 00:09:15.600 without engaging with just the business side of it of movies, 178 00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:21.279 TV et cetera. And there's a safety in the business 179 00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:24.440 of making an adaptation of something that you know already 180 00:09:24.519 --> 00:09:29.120 has an established fan base, like the Wicked movie. Right, 181 00:09:29.240 --> 00:09:33.440 Like people went to see the play, people read the book, 182 00:09:33.720 --> 00:09:35.919 and like, oh, movies coming out. I know the story, 183 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:38.480 but like now I'm excited to see it in theaters. 184 00:09:38.519 --> 00:09:40.440 It is like a thing. Yeah, and I think that 185 00:09:40.559 --> 00:09:45.240 happens with any of these franchises right that adapt something 186 00:09:46.720 --> 00:09:52.360 certainly like the young adult novel into movie trend brought 187 00:09:52.480 --> 00:09:55.440 a lot of fans and especially like those younger fans 188 00:09:55.480 --> 00:09:57.720 that read the novels into theaters. 189 00:09:58.360 --> 00:10:01.039 Right, if you grew up with something, A, you want 190 00:10:01.039 --> 00:10:02.919 to see it yourself, and B, especially if youre an adult, 191 00:10:02.919 --> 00:10:04.759 maybe this is how you introduce your kids to it. 192 00:10:04.840 --> 00:10:06.720 You really want to kind of you know, focus on that. 193 00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:09.080 And I think there's a lot of this that's kind 194 00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:11.080 of outside the purview of this podcast. In terms of 195 00:10:11.080 --> 00:10:13.320 the economics of it, I can't say I know all 196 00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:15.240 of it. I do know that we're in economic time 197 00:10:15.320 --> 00:10:18.639 with movies a lot because of the special effects budgets, 198 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:22.039 but for many other reasons where yeah, it's harder to 199 00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:24.360 take a chance on something and people want much more 200 00:10:24.399 --> 00:10:26.720 safe bets. And I think there's a lot of conversation 201 00:10:26.759 --> 00:10:29.639 that we talked about about how that hurts movies in 202 00:10:29.679 --> 00:10:31.840 general and media in general. Although it means that there's 203 00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:34.480 a lot more possibility on TV, but even then, sometimes, 204 00:10:34.919 --> 00:10:36.519 you know, the budgets can be astronomical. 205 00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:40.039 Yeah, that's the thing is that I think when you 206 00:10:40.039 --> 00:10:42.519 say it's harder to take a chance on something, it's 207 00:10:42.559 --> 00:10:45.720 harder for a movie that costs two hundred million dollars, 208 00:10:45.960 --> 00:10:48.399 like let's just say as a ballpark to take a 209 00:10:48.480 --> 00:10:52.759 chance on something, right, Like a high budget action movie 210 00:10:53.320 --> 00:10:55.679 has to draw in a certain amount of people a 211 00:10:55.679 --> 00:10:59.039 certain amount of money. But I do like for me, 212 00:10:59.240 --> 00:11:01.720 like you know, I am a huge horror movie fan, 213 00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:05.279 and those movies have very small budgets, you know, relatively 214 00:11:05.279 --> 00:11:08.080 speaking for movies. Oh yeah, like somewhere between like ten 215 00:11:08.120 --> 00:11:12.279 to fifty million, right, it's a small budget. But those 216 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:17.080 there's a lot of horror movies that take chances right 217 00:11:17.159 --> 00:11:22.919 with new things. You know, there are established franchises like Scream, 218 00:11:23.480 --> 00:11:26.759 Nightmare on Elm Street, that kind of thing, but a 219 00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:29.399 lot of my favorite horror movies within the past five 220 00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:32.679 years are just like new things and the studios and 221 00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:35.159 the filmmakers are just taking a chance on something and 222 00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:38.759 it's exciting, and there is this thing where, yeah, like 223 00:11:38.840 --> 00:11:42.240 some of them are probably gonna spa spawn new franchises, 224 00:11:42.320 --> 00:11:45.840 like Muthrigan for example, Like I know there's already a 225 00:11:45.879 --> 00:11:47.000 sequel being worked on. 226 00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:50.960 Right Well, So let's with that, let's kind of talk 227 00:11:50.960 --> 00:11:52.639 about some of the other reasons, because I think money 228 00:11:52.679 --> 00:11:54.120 is obviously a big one, but I do think there 229 00:11:54.120 --> 00:11:57.759 are other reasons why people make remakes and I just 230 00:11:57.799 --> 00:11:59.000 kind of put a couple of them together if you 231 00:11:59.039 --> 00:12:00.519 want to jump in a comment any of them or 232 00:12:00.559 --> 00:12:03.000 add others to the list. But I think one is 233 00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:05.399 because the desire to tell a story in a new medium. 234 00:12:05.879 --> 00:12:07.080 And I think a lot of this time it's the 235 00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:09.559 let's take a novel or a you know, a comic 236 00:12:09.559 --> 00:12:11.000 book or something like that and put it on the 237 00:12:11.000 --> 00:12:13.679 big screen. A lot of times it's the let's take 238 00:12:13.720 --> 00:12:16.639 something animated and put it into live action. And that's 239 00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:18.279 a topic that you and I have, like, you know, 240 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:20.600 some mixed feelings about We've discussed we needed to touch 241 00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:24.200 on again. There's the idea of bringing characters into an 242 00:12:24.279 --> 00:12:27.200 established EU, you know, And so with the MCU. This 243 00:12:27.279 --> 00:12:29.200 is the biggest one we have with we're kind of 244 00:12:29.240 --> 00:12:31.440 like remaking the X Men movies now so they can 245 00:12:31.480 --> 00:12:34.000 and the Fantastic Four because they've been to bring them 246 00:12:34.039 --> 00:12:36.519 into the MCU, although Fantastic Four will hit another reason 247 00:12:36.519 --> 00:12:39.039 on my list or with this new Daredevil show, it's 248 00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:44.120 to more explicitly bring it into the MCU. Animational live 249 00:12:44.120 --> 00:12:47.559 action in which we've talked about modernizing a story, I 250 00:12:47.559 --> 00:12:49.519 think is often kind of one of the reasons for it. 251 00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:53.720 And to some extent this is a purely financial thing 252 00:12:53.840 --> 00:12:57.240 of that there's a need to protect copyright. I think 253 00:12:57.320 --> 00:12:59.960 the most famous of these was the second in or 254 00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:04.080 of the Final Four Final Four the Fantastic Four characters 255 00:13:04.480 --> 00:13:08.919 known with Michael P. Jordan as uh, Johnny Speed, Johnny 256 00:13:08.960 --> 00:13:11.879 Rockett was his name, Johnny Storm, Johnny Storm, thank you. 257 00:13:14.279 --> 00:13:16.240 Where you know you have to protect a copyright by 258 00:13:16.279 --> 00:13:18.960 making something every twenty years or so, but also just 259 00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:23.679 sometimes you know, you know, my characters like Superman, like Batman, 260 00:13:23.799 --> 00:13:25.840 like the stories can be great, but sometimes you want 261 00:13:25.840 --> 00:13:28.200 to introduce them to an audience, partially to make money, 262 00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:30.799 but also sometimes to update the story in some ways. 263 00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:35.519 And then and then I think, uh, and then of 264 00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:38.480 course just you know, the money grab anything I missed 265 00:13:38.480 --> 00:13:40.639 on that list, you think, or any comments want to 266 00:13:40.639 --> 00:13:41.679 make on the things on that list. 267 00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:45.879 Sure, I think I always think of Spider Man as 268 00:13:45.960 --> 00:13:49.799 the we are just trying to hang on to VIP. 269 00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:50.399 Yeah. 270 00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:53.919 Yeah, because we had the Toby Maguires and then Andrew 271 00:13:53.960 --> 00:13:58.600 Garfields and now we get like the Venom Slash Spider 272 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:03.240 versus Villain boes that just come out every couple of years, 273 00:14:03.279 --> 00:14:06.000 and it's like, that's what they That's what Sony Studios 274 00:14:06.039 --> 00:14:09.440 needs to do in order to hold on to their license. 275 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:11.240 As part of the right hold on to the the 276 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:13.559 other characters as well. You know, that's why they'll do 277 00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:15.279 Venom and then have a lot of the other villains 278 00:14:15.279 --> 00:14:16.039 and stuff like that. 279 00:14:19.279 --> 00:14:23.360 But yeah, like animation, I think is a very important 280 00:14:23.399 --> 00:14:27.600 one to me because I love anime. We all love, 281 00:14:27.919 --> 00:14:31.159 you know, like the Star Wars animated serieses like Rebels, 282 00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:34.759 and to see those characters come into live action there's 283 00:14:34.759 --> 00:14:35.879 something special about it. 284 00:14:36.279 --> 00:14:36.519 Yeah. 285 00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:41.759 The one piece anime, like Japanese anime to live action 286 00:14:42.279 --> 00:14:47.039 has a very mixed bag, mostly bad, right, But you know, 287 00:14:47.240 --> 00:14:50.480 we talked about the one piece live action in my 288 00:14:50.519 --> 00:14:54.080 opinion was probably the best anime to live action adaptation 289 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:58.200 i've seen. Yeah, and the the fact that it was 290 00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:03.159 done well is just heartwarming and promising for other future projects, 291 00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:06.840 and I hope that they happen and that people like 292 00:15:06.919 --> 00:15:09.320 the people who are doing these things pay attention to 293 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:14.039 why it succeeded. Yeah, and the love and care that 294 00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:17.159 the people involved had for the property and put into it. 295 00:15:17.639 --> 00:15:20.639 You talked a lot about the business and the money, 296 00:15:21.320 --> 00:15:24.240 but I do also believe that there are people who 297 00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:27.360 love these things and just like want to make them. 298 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:28.240 Yeah. 299 00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:31.000 I think Star Wars a lot of the people now 300 00:15:31.080 --> 00:15:34.679 who are creating the Star Wars things we're watching are 301 00:15:34.759 --> 00:15:37.120 like us. They grew up on Star Wars and they're like, 302 00:15:37.240 --> 00:15:40.360 I now have this opportunity to add to this thing 303 00:15:40.399 --> 00:15:43.639 I love. Yeah, and true, why wouldn't you take that 304 00:15:43.759 --> 00:15:45.960 chance if you're like a writer or director? 305 00:15:46.039 --> 00:15:48.919 Right? I think that's true. I'm really glad you brought 306 00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:51.200 up the anime to TV one because I think that's 307 00:15:51.240 --> 00:15:54.639 one where I think there's actually another thing I'm should 308 00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:57.759 put on the list, which is expanding the audience because 309 00:15:57.799 --> 00:15:59.200 and this is again where I think it's kind of 310 00:15:59.200 --> 00:16:01.120 a mixed bag because as you and I have discussed, 311 00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:03.519 I think both of us think there can be a 312 00:16:03.559 --> 00:16:08.360 fantastic storytelling in animation anime specifically, but also just in 313 00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:11.399 other forms of animation. And sometimes I don't like the 314 00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:14.000 idea that it's not really a real story until it's 315 00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:16.720 become live action, and that's been a lot. I think 316 00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:18.879 we're probably not even gonna touch the whole debates over 317 00:16:18.919 --> 00:16:21.720 the Disney live action remakes, but I know that discussion 318 00:16:21.759 --> 00:16:26.600 comes up a lot there. But with anime, like there's 319 00:16:26.600 --> 00:16:29.279 two examples that come to me that really kind of 320 00:16:29.320 --> 00:16:32.519 do two different things. One is One Piece, which I 321 00:16:32.519 --> 00:16:36.360 think was very intentionally and very successfully. It did expand 322 00:16:36.360 --> 00:16:38.080 the audience for a lot of people. I didn't love 323 00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:39.679 it as much, but for me that I'd more do 324 00:16:39.759 --> 00:16:42.320 with the characters than anything else. But I think a 325 00:16:42.320 --> 00:16:45.200 lot of people who don't necessarily love animation really loved it, 326 00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:47.240 and of course the anime fans who really did loved it. 327 00:16:47.960 --> 00:16:51.879 But for me, Cowboy Bebop is one of my favorite stories, 328 00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:54.799 and I don't like the anime very much. I loved 329 00:16:54.840 --> 00:16:57.360 the live action, and now a whole bunch of fans 330 00:16:57.399 --> 00:16:58.960 are throwing a whole bunch of things that they're at 331 00:16:58.960 --> 00:17:01.080 their phones. Please don't do that. If you want to 332 00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:02.799 send me tomatoes, just send them to me. I'll turn 333 00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:06.920 them into an I sauce. But like, I loved it 334 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:08.960 in part because I found and again, this is just 335 00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:11.039 the way my brain works. It's my own fault not 336 00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:14.720 critiquing the medium. But I found the medium of the 337 00:17:14.759 --> 00:17:18.039 original Cowboy Bebop really hard to understand, and the TV 338 00:17:18.119 --> 00:17:21.079 show totally clicked for me. And I do think like 339 00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:24.599 when there's a story like Cowboy Bebop that is very 340 00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:27.160 tied to anime but has a kind of universal story 341 00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:30.400 to be understood that I think is worth telling. I 342 00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:32.920 do like the idea that putting it into different formats 343 00:17:32.920 --> 00:17:36.759 in different genres, not different genres, but different mediums can 344 00:17:36.839 --> 00:17:38.319 help more people to find that story. 345 00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:44.920 Yeah, I fully agree. Like that's the thing with the 346 00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:49.559 one piece live action is that I just want it 347 00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:54.319 in front of as many eyes as possible. Yeah, And 348 00:17:54.359 --> 00:17:58.319 in that case, like there's doubly the animation to live action, 349 00:17:58.400 --> 00:18:02.119 but also like the Japanese to English audience right, like, yeah, 350 00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:06.400 it's a very niche audience for anime still, even though 351 00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:08.640 it's become quite popular. 352 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:08.920 So. 353 00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:12.640 I'm sure there's a lot of people who watched it 354 00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:17.160 on Netflix and maybe didn't even realize when they started 355 00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:20.160 watching it that it was adapted from an anime. And 356 00:18:20.599 --> 00:18:24.599 just like getting over that hump of resistance, I think. 357 00:18:24.440 --> 00:18:27.559 It's important and I think that it's important to understand, 358 00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:30.920 especially when animation is one but there's a number of 359 00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:34.319 other mediums in which people are telling great stories, and 360 00:18:34.359 --> 00:18:37.640 that medium isn't very accessible to lot to many people, 361 00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:39.880 or at least there's some people who for who find 362 00:18:39.880 --> 00:18:42.440 it more difficult. And you know, there's a ton of 363 00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:45.720 moralizing on the fact that as a society, people don't 364 00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:47.400 read as much as they used to in terms of 365 00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:50.359 actual books, and I'll leave that aside. So I think 366 00:18:50.359 --> 00:18:52.759 it's with positives and negatives there, but I think we 367 00:18:52.759 --> 00:18:56.119 can sometimes have this very like my point being, I 368 00:18:56.160 --> 00:18:58.240 don't want to make a judgment about why or why 369 00:18:58.279 --> 00:19:00.359 it is that why it is or isn't that people 370 00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:02.160 are finding it harder to read books a lot of 371 00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:03.640 the time, But the fact is a lot of people 372 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:06.960 don't read as many books anymore. And when I look 373 00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:11.160 at a character like Admiral Throng, you know, especially with 374 00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:13.880 Star Wars, I think that there's a considerable level of like, 375 00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:15.920 you know, you're one level of fan if you just 376 00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:18.559 want to watch the movies and nothing judgment, but like 377 00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:21.480 it's more of an investment to then watch the TV shows. 378 00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:23.960 It's more of an investment to watch the animated shows. 379 00:19:24.400 --> 00:19:27.559 And then that last level of investment is reading the books, 380 00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:29.559 and maybe beyond that is like you know, video games 381 00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:32.839 and the encyclopedias and stuff. But like characters like General Throng, 382 00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:35.480 characters like some of the people from the High Republic 383 00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:39.920 who I have really loved. It can be dangerous and 384 00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:42.279 there's problems with it, and we'll discuss that. But I 385 00:19:42.319 --> 00:19:45.000 think to me, one of my favorite kind of adaptations 386 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:46.759 is when you take something in a medium like that 387 00:19:46.759 --> 00:19:50.480 that is less accessible for whatever reason and bring it 388 00:19:50.519 --> 00:19:52.759 to a more accessible medium like TV or movies. 389 00:19:54.759 --> 00:19:58.319 Yeah, well, I mean like just comic books. Yeah, we 390 00:19:58.359 --> 00:20:02.400 talked about the MCU being this mega franchise, but prior 391 00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:06.759 to those first movies, comic book movies were seen as 392 00:20:06.759 --> 00:20:10.759 a joke. Yeah, and many were many were bad, and 393 00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:13.599 just like comic books in general, a lot of people 394 00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:17.680 did not consider them to be good storytelling or like 395 00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:19.839 they weren't for adults or what you know, whatever, the 396 00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:23.920 derogatory thing. But being a comic book fan, like in 397 00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:28.079 the eighties and nineties wasn't popular, right, Like, it wasn't 398 00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:32.160 a popular thing in the in the mainstream media, and 399 00:20:32.839 --> 00:20:36.039 so many of those stories are iconic. And now we 400 00:20:36.119 --> 00:20:39.960 are we are seeing like this this shift and people 401 00:20:39.960 --> 00:20:43.720