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Every day, NPR is Up 34 00:01:10.480 --> 00:01:12.879 First brings you the three biggest stories in under fifteen minutes. 35 00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:15.280 They go into what happened and why it matters. It's 36 00:01:15.280 --> 00:01:18.159 short and thorough, fact based and personable with national and 37 00:01:18.159 --> 00:01:20.920 international news and one easy listen. Listen to Up First 38 00:01:20.959 --> 00:01:44.480 from NPR wherever you get your podcasts. 39 00:01:46.319 --> 00:01:48.760 Welcome to plod Save America. I'm John Bavora, I'm John Lovett, 40 00:01:48.760 --> 00:01:50.680 Tom Mevi Tour. On today's show, we'll talk about the 41 00:01:50.719 --> 00:01:54.519 latest developments in the on again, off again war slash 42 00:01:54.560 --> 00:01:57.159 peace deale with Iran, which seems to be playing its 43 00:01:57.159 --> 00:02:01.079 hand better than master negotiator jd Vance. We'll also get 44 00:02:01.079 --> 00:02:04.359 into the Reflecting Pool drama which has gone from farce 45 00:02:04.400 --> 00:02:07.719 to fascist as federal agents start arresting people Trump's accusing 46 00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:12.159 of phantom vandalism. Plus, the President unveils his new Katari jet. 47 00:02:12.199 --> 00:02:15.759 Bill Poulti officially takes over as acting DNI. It appears 48 00:02:15.759 --> 00:02:17.680 that the outgoing dn I might have been under the 49 00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:20.280 influence of a cult leader. And we'll talk about the 50 00:02:20.280 --> 00:02:23.680 potentially criminal lobbying campaign behind Trump's decision to spring a 51 00:02:23.719 --> 00:02:28.159 convicted fraudster from jail. Then New York Times reporters Maggie 52 00:02:28.159 --> 00:02:31.599 Haberman and Jonathan Swan talked to Tommy about their explosive 53 00:02:31.639 --> 00:02:35.039 new book, Regime Change, which is full of fascinating revelations 54 00:02:35.039 --> 00:02:38.280 about Trump's second term White House. Did you think better 55 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:39.400 of Donald Trump after reading? 56 00:02:39.560 --> 00:02:42.639 Yeah, he's just misunderstood and guy, he's just doing his best. 57 00:02:42.680 --> 00:02:43.800 You know, he's got a moral core. 58 00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:44.680 This is good. 59 00:02:44.840 --> 00:02:47.280 Now, it's a really good book. I would like spent 60 00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:50.000 the day just inhaling it. And even for secos, I 61 00:02:50.000 --> 00:02:52.719 guess that follow this stuff closely. You learn a lot 62 00:02:52.759 --> 00:02:55.520 about the process, the kind of narrative around how these 63 00:02:55.759 --> 00:02:57.960 decisions actually got made, what it's really like in the 64 00:02:58.000 --> 00:02:58.560 Oval office. 65 00:02:58.599 --> 00:03:01.159 It's really really good. Yeah, as someone who doesn't read 66 00:03:01.199 --> 00:03:03.439 books but is also a sicko. Think I'm gonna read 67 00:03:03.479 --> 00:03:03.719 this one. 68 00:03:03.759 --> 00:03:05.000 You're gonna like it, you know, like it? 69 00:03:05.080 --> 00:03:08.080 Yeah, it's a patriot. All right. Let's talk about how 70 00:03:08.080 --> 00:03:12.120 the Memo of Versailles is holding up. As of this recording, 71 00:03:12.120 --> 00:03:14.039 both the US and Iran are now saying that the 72 00:03:14.039 --> 00:03:16.680 peace talks in Switzerland are going well and that they're 73 00:03:16.680 --> 00:03:19.639 making progress, though it certainly didn't seem like that. Over 74 00:03:19.639 --> 00:03:23.680 the weekend, the ceasefire between Israel and Lebanon briefly fell apart. 75 00:03:24.039 --> 00:03:26.919 Iran announced it close the strait again. The US said 76 00:03:26.919 --> 00:03:29.599 that wasn't true, and then Trump demanded that Iran rein 77 00:03:29.639 --> 00:03:33.039 in Hesbola or the US would resume bombing for good measure. 78 00:03:33.080 --> 00:03:35.000 He also threatened to take over the Strait of horror 79 00:03:35.039 --> 00:03:37.719 moves and sees twenty percent of the oil that passes 80 00:03:37.759 --> 00:03:41.800 through it, which is something that he can definitely do. JD. Vans, 81 00:03:41.800 --> 00:03:44.520 who Trump has generously made the face of America's surrender 82 00:03:44.560 --> 00:03:47.879 to Iran, cited three points of progress on Monday. One, 83 00:03:48.000 --> 00:03:50.400 he said the US and Iran agreed on measures to 84 00:03:50.520 --> 00:03:53.759 keep the straight open. Two, they agreed on a mechanism 85 00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:57.039 to diffuse flare ups between Israel and Hesbola. And three, 86 00:03:57.120 --> 00:03:59.599 he said that Iran has agreed to let international nuclear 87 00:03:59.639 --> 00:04:02.520 weapons inspectors into the country for the first time since 88 00:04:02.599 --> 00:04:06.039 Trump tore up Obama's Iran deal, though we haven't seen 89 00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:09.919 confirmation of that yet from the Iranians. In exchange, the 90 00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:12.680 US has agreed to waive sanctions on Iranian oil for 91 00:04:12.719 --> 00:04:15.240 sixty days, first time we've done that in like four decades, 92 00:04:15.759 --> 00:04:19.040 So congrats to Iran. Trump got asked about all this 93 00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:21.040 at a signing event in the Oval on Monday just 94 00:04:21.040 --> 00:04:24.480 before we recorded, where he showed off his absolute command 95 00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:25.560 of what's going on. 96 00:04:26.079 --> 00:04:30.079 If they're or with iransom could cause a worldwide depression. 97 00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:32.680 As you noted, mister President, are you willing to risk 98 00:04:32.839 --> 00:04:34.839 economic catastrophe and strike Iran? 99 00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:36.800 Well, not the way I'm doing it. It's not going 100 00:04:36.839 --> 00:04:37.879 to cause depression. 101 00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:41.279 Yes, if they don't abide by the well, nuclear. 102 00:04:40.959 --> 00:04:47.920 Weapon supersedes depression. Depressions, real bad nuclear weapon will cause depression. 103 00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:51.519 If the Iranians won't use profits from oil sales to 104 00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:52.279 rebuild their. 105 00:04:52.199 --> 00:04:54.519 Military, well they're not supposed to be doing that, so 106 00:04:54.560 --> 00:04:56.959 i'd will say. But they're supposed to use money to 107 00:04:57.000 --> 00:04:59.160 buy food for the people, because right now that people 108 00:04:59.199 --> 00:05:02.519 are very hungry. As long as they respect us, we're 109 00:05:02.519 --> 00:05:03.279 going to be fine. 110 00:05:03.600 --> 00:05:05.000 What do you think You think they're going to use 111 00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:07.079 all that money to buy food for their people? Oh yeah, 112 00:05:07.079 --> 00:05:08.920 and then show us nothing but respect. 113 00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:11.160 For sure, there's nothing. There's nothing to stop them from 114 00:05:11.199 --> 00:05:12.680 using the money to buy whatever they want with it. 115 00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:14.000 There's not that's not part of the deal. 116 00:05:14.079 --> 00:05:15.480 There's no deal. There's nothing you. 117 00:05:15.399 --> 00:05:17.160 Wanted to say that we're we're actually going to benefit 118 00:05:17.199 --> 00:05:18.639 from this because if they buy food, they're going to 119 00:05:18.680 --> 00:05:20.279 buy food from us. And so really the money fight 120 00:05:20.279 --> 00:05:23.720 that's way back to us. That's what's actually waking about. 121 00:05:23.720 --> 00:05:26.519 It's crazy you enjoyed dunk a use over there. 122 00:05:27.959 --> 00:05:32.160 I mean, who doesn't want them? Now, Tommy, what do 123 00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:33.680 you make of the latest developments? Are we in a 124 00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:35.279 are we in a better place, a worse place? The 125 00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:36.560 same place? Too hard to tell? 126 00:05:36.759 --> 00:05:40.319 I mean, per that reporter's question about could the ongoing 127 00:05:40.319 --> 00:05:43.160 closure of the straighter Humus lead to an economic calamity 128 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:46.240 and you know, like famine in places like Africa, I 129 00:05:46.279 --> 00:05:48.360 think we're in a worse place because over the last week, 130 00:05:48.360 --> 00:05:51.720 Iron has signaled that they are willing to happily close 131 00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:54.040 the street or Humous again, or at least announce it's closed. 132 00:05:54.360 --> 00:05:56.199 And I think what folks have to remember is like, 133 00:05:56.240 --> 00:05:57.639 this is not a valve that goes on and off. 134 00:05:57.639 --> 00:06:00.360 This is a bunch of economic decisions made by shipping companies. 135 00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:02.800 So we're thinking of our cells. We have these giant tankers. 136 00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:05.120 I could send it to the straight door moves. I 137 00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:07.439 could send it somewhere else if there's a three percent 138 00:06:07.560 --> 00:06:09.560 chance it gets stuck in there for a couple of 139 00:06:09.600 --> 00:06:13.240 weeks because the Iranians fire off ballistic missiles or something 140 00:06:13.279 --> 00:06:15.319 worse could happen, they get shot at, you know, like 141 00:06:15.360 --> 00:06:17.839 that's that's a big capital expenditure that could go to 142 00:06:17.839 --> 00:06:20.360 the bottom of the ocean for them. And so I'm 143 00:06:20.360 --> 00:06:22.639 worried about this, just kind of bumping along in an 144 00:06:22.720 --> 00:06:24.959 unsettled fashion for a while, and worried about ongoing high 145 00:06:25.079 --> 00:06:28.439 energy prices, and worried about the shortage of fertilizer shipments, 146 00:06:28.480 --> 00:06:30.480 which are already going to show up too late to 147 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:32.040 hit a lot of crops and are going to lead 148 00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:34.600 to lower yields and less food for people in higher 149 00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:39.079 prices and more hunger and then the like whatever this 150 00:06:39.199 --> 00:06:41.839 mechanism is to solve the you know, flare ups between 151 00:06:41.839 --> 00:06:43.800 Hesbola and Israel. I don't buy that for a second. 152 00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:45.560 Is it like a deconflicting cell. 153 00:06:45.759 --> 00:06:48.759 Yeah, it's probably like a conference call. But like again, 154 00:06:48.839 --> 00:06:52.560 the Israelis, they're not pulling troops out of Lebanon. They 155 00:06:52.560 --> 00:06:55.759 if like they're occupying six miles of territory into Lebanon, 156 00:06:55.959 --> 00:06:58.360 Hesbel is going to attack them, the IDF will respond, 157 00:06:58.720 --> 00:07:00.319 and then it's going to lead to these events. 158 00:07:00.360 --> 00:07:01.720 So I just I don't feel great about it. 159 00:07:02.360 --> 00:07:05.879 Yeah, I would say we're better off in peace talks 160 00:07:05.879 --> 00:07:07.720 than we were when there were no peace talks. We're 161 00:07:07.720 --> 00:07:10.720 better off not being a war than we were when 162 00:07:10.759 --> 00:07:13.000 we were at war. We are worse off than we 163 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:16.879 were before the war started, and we are worse off 164 00:07:16.959 --> 00:07:20.600 than we were when there was the JCPOA in place. 165 00:07:20.959 --> 00:07:23.240 All these hawks who are trying to find their way 166 00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:26.959 to justify supporting this deal or not being as critical 167 00:07:26.959 --> 00:07:29.759 of this deal, I'm just waiting for something to happen 168 00:07:30.319 --> 00:07:34.800 in which Iran has conceded more or given more than 169 00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:38.959 they did under the horrible, unacceptable, worst. 170 00:07:38.720 --> 00:07:40.040 Deal in history made by Obama. 171 00:07:40.040 --> 00:07:43.160 I'm waiting for one thing where they've given given up 172 00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:45.800 more because as of right now, how different would it 173 00:07:45.879 --> 00:07:49.680 look if Iran had said we are shutting the strait 174 00:07:49.759 --> 00:07:53.160 of horror moves unless until you negotiate a better deal 175 00:07:53.199 --> 00:07:54.920 with us, like we are going to like you know 176 00:07:54.920 --> 00:07:56.399 what I mean, Like we had not launched a war. 177 00:07:56.439 --> 00:07:58.800 But Irana just said we're closing the strait of hormones 178 00:07:58.839 --> 00:08:00.240 unless you give us a bunch of until you give 179 00:08:00.319 --> 00:08:02.439 us a bunch of concessions. I don't know how much 180 00:08:02.480 --> 00:08:04.399 different would look than this, right. 181 00:08:04.399 --> 00:08:08.519 I mean, I saw that Steve Rantner on Twitter said 182 00:08:08.519 --> 00:08:11.680 that the oil waivers could bring them ten billion dollars 183 00:08:11.720 --> 00:08:13.000 in sanctions relief. 184 00:08:14.120 --> 00:08:17.240 Just from not just oil sales, right from all the Yeah, right, 185 00:08:17.240 --> 00:08:19.120 there's a sanction, there's sixty day sanction to waive around 186 00:08:19.120 --> 00:08:21.680 oil sales. Those sales could be up to ten billion dollars. 187 00:08:21.800 --> 00:08:26.079 Well. Also, he noted that in the JCPOA, we didn't 188 00:08:26.079 --> 00:08:29.240 give any sanction of relief until they allowed the inspectors 189 00:08:29.360 --> 00:08:33.279 into Iran. We have, you know. Bessent sort of posted 190 00:08:33.320 --> 00:08:36.039 today that there was the sanctions relief has happened, although 191 00:08:36.039 --> 00:08:37.720 they asked Trump about that, then he's like, I'm not sure. 192 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:40.360 I have to check in on that. And they haven't 193 00:08:40.399 --> 00:08:43.639 allowed a single weapons in specter into the country, nor 194 00:08:43.679 --> 00:08:46.559 have they even confirmed what jd Vance said about this, 195 00:08:46.679 --> 00:08:47.679 that they are willing to do so. 196 00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:50.399 And the devil is the details there. I remember the 197 00:08:50.559 --> 00:08:54.320 JCPOA had lots of IAA access and inspections, but the 198 00:08:54.360 --> 00:08:57.159 Republicans were mad that they would have to give twenty 199 00:08:57.159 --> 00:09:00.240 four hour notice for certain sites like snapped inspections. Like 200 00:09:00.279 --> 00:09:01.720 he is to be able to go to wherever you want, 201 00:09:01.799 --> 00:09:05.919 whenever you want it, so you can't move shit around. Look, yeah, 202 00:09:05.919 --> 00:09:07.480 I'm like love it. I'm like glad we're in talks. 203 00:09:07.519 --> 00:09:10.799 I'm glad there's not an ongoing conflict. The devil is 204 00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:12.960 in the details here. And also we're still sending like 205 00:09:13.000 --> 00:09:15.919 these hapless idiots like Jade Vance and Steve Wikoff and 206 00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:20.639 Jared Kushner and the Iranians are sending nuclear experts who 207 00:09:20.679 --> 00:09:23.360 have nothing better to do and nothing but time to 208 00:09:23.519 --> 00:09:26.840 grind them down. And they also know that Trump doesn't 209 00:09:26.840 --> 00:09:28.279 want to go back to war and has given up 210 00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:30.440 all his leverage, which just doesn't make me confident that 211 00:09:30.480 --> 00:09:32.120 we are going to get a better. 212 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:33.080 JCP away again. 213 00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:35.840 I want the warover. I'm not some hawk attacking him 214 00:09:35.879 --> 00:09:38.480 for the right here, but just sort of like realistically 215 00:09:38.519 --> 00:09:42.399 looking at the setup now after the war started and ended, 216 00:09:42.440 --> 00:09:44.679 and now we're here, like Trump's leverage is just gone. 217 00:09:44.759 --> 00:09:48.559 He's given the sanctions relief, the threat of military action 218 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:50.159 is gone. I just don't know how you get to 219 00:09:50.200 --> 00:09:53.399 a better deal to anyone. Happened to catch jd Vance's 220 00:09:53.440 --> 00:09:57.360 interview with Russ Doutwitz. Pieces, Yeah, when they talked about this, 221 00:09:57.639 --> 00:09:59.799 and it was interesting because a lot of the things 222 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:02.279 Evan said as people who don't want the war to 223 00:10:02.320 --> 00:10:04.159 go on like us. I was like, oh, that that's good, 224 00:10:04.200 --> 00:10:07.559 you know, that's a good case. But where he really 225 00:10:08.039 --> 00:10:12.360 stumbled or I think just lied, was talking about the 226 00:10:12.480 --> 00:10:15.120 jcpoa like at one point he's like, the difference, the 227 00:10:15.159 --> 00:10:18.639 real difference between this deal and the Obama deal is 228 00:10:18.679 --> 00:10:21.360 the Obama deal just let them have all this enriched 229 00:10:21.480 --> 00:10:24.120 uranium that now this deal we're going to get to 230 00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:27.679 take away. That's like literally, I thought I was gonna 231 00:10:27.720 --> 00:10:29.000 I was gonna text you, but but I feel like 232 00:10:29.000 --> 00:10:30.519 I'll ask you here on the pot was like didn't. 233 00:10:30.519 --> 00:10:32.679 Didn't They didn't They enrich all the uranium. After he 234 00:10:32.720 --> 00:10:36.039 pulled out of the deal under the JCPOA, they shipped 235 00:10:36.039 --> 00:10:37.879 out ninety seven percent of their stockpile. I went to 236 00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:40.360 Russia where they disposed of it. Under this deal, are 237 00:10:40.399 --> 00:10:42.639 talking about down blending and insight and keeping it in 238 00:10:42.679 --> 00:10:44.279 the country, se the opposite of what he said. 239 00:10:44.639 --> 00:10:48.639 It's ridiculous. Ross did not press him on that. So 240 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:51.080 we've talked a lot lately about how Republicans are coping 241 00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:53.440 with this. They continue to be all over the map, 242 00:10:54.159 --> 00:10:57.000 from kissing Trump's ass to threatening new wars to open revolt. 243 00:10:57.480 --> 00:10:58.200 Let's take a lesson. 244 00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:00.720 If we have inspectors going in there, and if that 245 00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:04.879 straight is open for business and yet all is flowing, 246 00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:07.399 then I think it's very clear the United States will 247 00:11:07.399 --> 00:11:08.679 have won this conflict. 248 00:11:08.879 --> 00:11:12.080 If this deal fails, President Trump is going to take 249 00:11:12.120 --> 00:11:15.080 the Straight of Horror moves over by force. The United 250 00:11:15.159 --> 00:11:18.240 States will control the Straight of Hormuz, will charge your 251 00:11:18.279 --> 00:11:20.919 fee for all those who go three through to pay 252 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:24.759 for the operation. And if Iran contests control of the 253 00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:28.039 Straight of Horrm moves by the United States will obliterate them. 254 00:11:28.279 --> 00:11:30.720 I would not support the Republican Party. There's no chance 255 00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:32.919 I would support the Republican Party. How could I or 256 00:11:32.960 --> 00:11:35.960 any American voters support a political party that's not loyal 257 00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:38.440 to the United States, that puts the interests of a 258 00:11:38.480 --> 00:11:41.600 foreign country above those of its own citizens. Like, So, no, 259 00:11:41.720 --> 00:11:43.919 I'm out, and if I'm out, then I think a 260 00:11:43.960 --> 00:11:45.000 lot of other people are out. 261 00:11:45.039 --> 00:11:50.480 Well, Okay, so Tucker is out, Lindsey Graham's threatening to 262 00:11:50.639 --> 00:11:54.720 take over. The Straight of Horror moves completely, and Jim Comer, 263 00:11:55.279 --> 00:11:58.039 the head of the Oversight Committee, he thinks that if 264 00:11:58.039 --> 00:12:00.879 the Strait is open and we get inspectors in there, 265 00:12:00.879 --> 00:12:03.879 we have won the conflict. What do you guys think, 266 00:12:03.879 --> 00:12:06.320 are the fractures here getting getting worse getting better? 267 00:12:06.919 --> 00:12:10.399 Yeah, the Strait is open, as that's a victory, even 268 00:12:10.440 --> 00:12:12.240 though it was not something we had to worry about 269 00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:14.679 until they started the war. Inspectors back in as you 270 00:12:14.759 --> 00:12:17.840 had under the old agreement that they tore up. The 271 00:12:17.879 --> 00:12:19.919 thing that I saw that I think is the most 272 00:12:19.960 --> 00:12:23.679 alarming our is the cope by the Iran Hawks, who 273 00:12:23.679 --> 00:12:27.279 are also apparajects, trying to get behind what Trump is doing. 274 00:12:27.320 --> 00:12:29.960 And you saw Hugh Hewitt and Mark Levin doing this 275 00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:34.720 kind of like forty Chess, basically saying the political calculus 276 00:12:34.759 --> 00:12:39.360 is that in order to prevent Republican losses and deal 277 00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:41.279 with the fact that the country has not been persuaded 278 00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:43.559 to be in favor of this war, you have to 279 00:12:43.559 --> 00:12:47.039 get into negotiations and punt because then after the election, 280 00:12:47.639 --> 00:12:50.399 then you can get back to bomb to bombing. Well, 281 00:12:50.519 --> 00:12:54.000 you know, Hugh Hughett called it clarity and then and 282 00:12:54.039 --> 00:12:58.799 then also said, I assume if Marco Rubio is seeing 283 00:12:58.840 --> 00:13:00.960 what's happening here, that he would not go along with 284 00:13:01.240 --> 00:13:03.919 a deal that doesn't treat the Iranian regime like the 285 00:13:03.919 --> 00:13:05.519 threat that it is, and he would resign. 286 00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:08.679 Yeah, usually he's pretty vocal and matters of conscience like this. 287 00:13:08.840 --> 00:13:11.320 But but I do think it points to what some 288 00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:13.480 of these hawks are hoping, which is that they can 289 00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:17.200 prevent the worst political blowback from the war, get cast down, 290 00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:21.720 and then go back to being bellicose regime changers once 291 00:13:21.919 --> 00:13:23.440 the midterms are behind us. 292 00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:28.159 Yeah, Like, ultimately, like guys like Linda Graham is always 293 00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:30.159 going to he's just going to get in line because 294 00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:30.879 that's what he does. 295 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:32.240 And you know, he's talked in. 296 00:13:32.279 --> 00:13:34.600 Articles before about all he cares about his relevance, and 297 00:13:34.639 --> 00:13:36.159 he wants to be up Trump's ass and get to 298 00:13:36.159 --> 00:13:39.080 play golf with him and be in the room. And 299 00:13:39.159 --> 00:13:41.120 he knows that Naga wants him just to be with 300 00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:45.080 Trump on everything. So I think, like the I think 301 00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:46.759 the elected Republicans will get in line. I think the 302 00:13:46.759 --> 00:13:48.120 Hawks will get in line and like kind of just 303 00:13:48.200 --> 00:13:50.799 keep their powder drive for another day. Ironically, Iran has 304 00:13:51.639 --> 00:13:53.960 more of a complicated system with factions that might oppose 305 00:13:53.960 --> 00:13:56.120 a deal, like the IRGC, like they're going to be 306 00:13:56.120 --> 00:13:58.240 out there loudly advocating against a deal. There's a bunch 307 00:13:58.279 --> 00:14:00.799 of nationalists sort of like forever getting whip up. I 308 00:14:00.840 --> 00:14:02.960 think they can rightly say, like why make a deal 309 00:14:02.960 --> 00:14:03.639 with the Americans? 310 00:14:03.679 --> 00:14:04.759 They just reneg on them. 311 00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:08.159 They pull out, and the next president will pull out anyway. Tucker, 312 00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:10.279 who knows what his incentives are these days, and he's 313 00:14:10.279 --> 00:14:12.399 got an audience, City's building and maybe a presidential run. 314 00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:16.639 Guys just ask why does face the Nation book Lindsay Graham, 315 00:14:17.080 --> 00:14:20.039 He's like one of their most booked guests. He disgraced 316 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:22.480 himself when it comes to the Iraq War. He was 317 00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:26.879 catastrophically wrong about Iran there in that clip he's threatening 318 00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:30.080 to have Trump do something militarily that we all just 319 00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:33.320 watch Trump fail to do, which is defeat the Iranian 320 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:35.799 regime militarily and then take control of the strad or Moves. 321 00:14:35.960 --> 00:14:37.480 If that was on the table, we would have done that. 322 00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:40.279 So why do we book this man on television just 323 00:14:40.279 --> 00:14:43.440 to like spew this hawkish bullshit? At what point do 324 00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:46.399 you get discredited and no longer invited on to face 325 00:14:46.399 --> 00:14:48.159 the nation or at least be in the penalty box 326 00:14:48.159 --> 00:14:49.159 for maybe a couple weeks. 327 00:14:49.480 --> 00:14:51.759 I imagine when they're doing their booking, they're just saying, Okay, 328 00:14:51.840 --> 00:14:55.519 we need we need the administration mouthpiece, perspective and guying 329 00:14:55.559 --> 00:14:57.200 to tie on a Sundad because if we can't get 330 00:14:57.200 --> 00:14:59.200 Trump or JD or something, we need someone who's going 331 00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:01.240 to spout that whatever was about that line. 332 00:15:01.279 --> 00:15:03.279 I guess how are the pro Trump hawks feeling? 333 00:15:03.639 --> 00:15:06.879 You know, go to Lindsay Graham, who's basically proposing that 334 00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:08.480 the US take over the straight up from Moves. I 335 00:15:08.519 --> 00:15:10.000 assume there'd be some sort of like maybe you have 336 00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:11.840 Disney help and do some sort of fast pass situation, 337 00:15:12.399 --> 00:15:14.120 going to use a genie apt to get through. 338 00:15:14.279 --> 00:15:16.360 Yeah, begs the question why haven't we done that already? 339 00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:18.440 It was on the table, he would have done it. Yeah, 340 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:20.440 but now we're going to go back and take twenty 341 00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:22.720 percent of aggregate oil revenue from this. 342 00:15:22.919 --> 00:15:23.679 Like, what the fuck do you. 343 00:15:23.679 --> 00:15:26.840 Remember every time where we were begging Europe to help 344 00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:28.480 us do something we didn't need their help to do, 345 00:15:28.519 --> 00:15:30.320 which is retake the straight up from moves, which we 346 00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:30.600 never did. 347 00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:33.960 It's just like, it's so fundamentally unseerious and he's such 348 00:15:33.960 --> 00:15:36.639 a discredited individual, but it speaks to how war is 349 00:15:36.679 --> 00:15:39.639 covered in Washington, where like the hawkish view is the 350 00:15:39.679 --> 00:15:42.240 serious view, and these are the very serious people who 351 00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:44.559 talk about serious things in the Oval Office, And if 352 00:15:44.559 --> 00:15:47.039 you're anti war or you say like we should be 353 00:15:47.080 --> 00:15:50.000 pro diplomacy, you are not booked on these shows or 354 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:50.759 treated seriously. 355 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:53.240 And it drives me nuts. Well, you know who's not 356 00:15:53.279 --> 00:15:57.000 buying all those shit voters? Yeah, CBS, the same CBS 357 00:15:57.039 --> 00:15:59.960 that had Lindsay Grammat has a new poll out on Sunday. 358 00:16:00.519 --> 00:16:03.200 A huge majority of people support ending the war, roughly 359 00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:05.759 eighty twenty, but by similar margins they think we have 360 00:16:05.879 --> 00:16:09.080 not stopped Iran's nuclear program for good created a better 361 00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:12.360 situation for arounds people or installed a regime that's friendlier 362 00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:14.879 to us. In other words, most voters are familiar with 363 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:18.720 the reality of the situation. Just saying true things American voters, 364 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:21.279 So what a guess, got it big pictures. Seventy percent 365 00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:22.960 of people say the war was not worth the cost, 366 00:16:23.320 --> 00:16:26.759 only thirty percent say it was only one poll, but 367 00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:28.960 lots of good data, good questions in there. What jumped 368 00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:29.519 out at you, guys. 369 00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:32.600 One thing was just a thing about what Tucker Carlson 370 00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:34.200 was saying there about being out and the other kind 371 00:16:34.200 --> 00:16:35.679 of people that would be at You would think that 372 00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:39.200 the kind of America First MAGA crowd would be more 373 00:16:40.120 --> 00:16:43.360 skittish about continuing the conflict. But it found that among Republicans, 374 00:16:43.360 --> 00:16:46.120 sixty forty one to end the conflict now rather than 375 00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:49.840 continue until Iran gives up more. And it's a small difference, 376 00:16:49.840 --> 00:16:52.480 but actually fewer MAGA reps. 377 00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:54.919 But that Yeah, but you said America First, which is 378 00:16:54.919 --> 00:16:58.639 telling that's not America Maga is MAGA is what whatever 379 00:16:58.720 --> 00:17:00.480 Trump wants. I'm good with. 380 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:02.320 Well, that's what I mean, right, that the people that 381 00:17:02.360 --> 00:17:04.400 you would think would be the America First sort of 382 00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:07.880 that were against these kind of interventions because they're behind Trump. 383 00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:09.960 It's their job to be supportive of Trump. There's no 384 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:11.720 they're not brooking as much Tos sent here. I mean, 385 00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:13.839 I would say even the fact that sixty percent of 386 00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:16.119 Republicans want to end the conflict now even fifty six 387 00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:18.559 percent of MAGA Republicans like does tell you how unpopular 388 00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:20.119 this is. But I think there is striking that you 389 00:17:20.119 --> 00:17:22.000 don't have a bigger break among people that would have 390 00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:23.880 considered themselves more aligned with Tucker. 391 00:17:24.039 --> 00:17:24.240 Yeah. 392 00:17:24.759 --> 00:17:26.680 Yeah, mean you get seventy percent of the country saying 393 00:17:26.680 --> 00:17:29.000 this was not worth the cost. I mean that is, uh, 394 00:17:29.119 --> 00:17:30.920 you don't get seventy for much. You don't get seventy 395 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:32.799 for much. I too love it. I was kind of 396 00:17:32.839 --> 00:17:35.480 like struck by the splits within MAGA, the fifty six 397 00:17:35.519 --> 00:17:38.279 percent saying end it now, forty four percent continue to 398 00:17:38.319 --> 00:17:40.440 get more from Iran, keep fighting to get more from Iran. 399 00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:42.480 But then you know, they did like kind of an 400 00:17:42.519 --> 00:17:46.240 intra MAGA self identified MAGA poll and ninety percent of 401 00:17:46.279 --> 00:17:48.319 like the NAGA people pulled to the deal is better 402 00:17:48.319 --> 00:17:50.839 for run. Nineteen percent of all Republicans said the deal 403 00:17:50.920 --> 00:17:52.319 was better from Iran. So it just I don't know 404 00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:56.519 it It speaks to the way the failure here has 405 00:17:56.599 --> 00:17:59.640 broken through to even the kind of cult members, the 406 00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:01.640 Maga cult members, And I think it tells you something 407 00:18:01.720 --> 00:18:05.319 about wars and how they end up being damaging for presidents. 408 00:18:05.359 --> 00:18:10.440 It's like presidents are actually often not You don't get 409 00:18:10.519 --> 00:18:12.839 hurt politically if you kind of bump along, but if 410 00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:14.960 you end a war and are perceived to have lost 411 00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:18.039 the war, I think voters will punish you. It seems 412 00:18:18.039 --> 00:18:19.640 like we're seeing the beginnings of that for Trump. 413 00:18:20.119 --> 00:18:22.079 One number that stuck out at me. It could be 414 00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:25.359 a problem for them, in a problem for the administration 415 00:18:25.480 --> 00:18:28.119 in the coming weeks and months. There's a plurality. Forty 416 00:18:28.160 --> 00:18:31.039 two percent think gas prices will go down in the 417 00:18:31.039 --> 00:18:34.119 next few weeks, and there is an expectation you can 418 00:18:34.119 --> 00:18:37.480 tell in these polls that they think it is over now. 419 00:18:37.519 --> 00:18:40.480 Things are going to get better financially economically, and that's end. 420 00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:43.839 Maybe that happens eventually, but I think it's going to 421 00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:45.920 take a bit of time. Just because the price of 422 00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:48.000 oil is falling doesn't mean the price of gas will 423 00:18:48.039 --> 00:18:51.880 as well. And you know, you're seeing like I think 424 00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:54.359 this poll has like his approval rating take up a 425 00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:56.880 point from last time, which is you know, like margin 426 00:18:56.920 --> 00:19:00.279 of error mean meaningless. But overall you've seen some you know, 427 00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:03.160 last week, I'd say maybe the generic ballot got like 428 00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:05.440 a point closer to Republicans too, So there might be 429 00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:08.319 some expectation around the war ending that relief is coming 430 00:19:08.359 --> 00:19:10.720 that I don't know if Trump is actually going to 431 00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:14.079 be able to deliver on, which is certainly something to 432 00:19:14.119 --> 00:19:15.079 watch for, which is. 433 00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:18.319 Why I think he's giving like this sixty day immediate 434 00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:20.680 license to the Iranians to sell oil and gas because 435 00:19:20.680 --> 00:19:23.039 they're just trying to flood the zone and get prices 436 00:19:23.079 --> 00:19:24.960 down as fast as they can. I agree, it's an 437 00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:27.759 open question about how quickly gas prices come down and 438 00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:30.720 whether they come down to where they were, and whether 439 00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:31.759 that's kind of how. 440 00:19:31.599 --> 00:19:33.079 People are anchoring this in their mind. 441 00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:36.440 But yeah, but there's you know, gas prices aren't just 442 00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:39.359 determined by the amount of oil that Iran lets do 443 00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:40.559 the Straight. And by the way, it's not as if 444 00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:42.200 the Straight is back up to where it was before 445 00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:44.160 there's so much less traffic through there. But if you 446 00:19:44.200 --> 00:19:47.440 have Iran, I think immediately saying we are going to 447 00:19:47.480 --> 00:19:50.079 close the Straight again to Sig, I think purposely right 448 00:19:50.119 --> 00:19:53.640 to whether whatever the inciting cause to signal. But at 449 00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:55.440 any moment, we can shut this thing down again. That 450 00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:56.880 that is our power and we plan to use it. 451 00:19:57.000 --> 00:19:57.119 Right. 452 00:19:57.160 --> 00:20:00.000 How is that going to give anybody confidence that prices 453 00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:02.400 going to be reliable, that oil will be reliable, that. 454 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:03.680 You can count on prices coming down. 455 00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:08.079 I just a Trump threatening them thre I need to 456 00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:09.160 kill the negotiators. 457 00:20:09.400 --> 00:20:11.240 I mean like, we're just. 458 00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:14.119 Just millennial you know, locker room talk, it's called it. 459 00:20:14.359 --> 00:20:14.519 Yeah. 460 00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:22.319 Yeah. 461 00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:25.240 Positive America is brought to you by a ZipRecruiter. 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Turns 511 00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:39.839 out Trump's mar Lago pal who got the no bid 512 00:22:39.920 --> 00:22:43.240 contract for fourteen million dollars in counting to renovate the 513 00:22:43.279 --> 00:22:46.519 reflecting pool. A fellow convicted criminal by the name of 514 00:22:46.920 --> 00:22:51.200 John Kafaro. Have you seen this guy's picture? Incredible? 515 00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:57.200 Yes, I recommend everyone google right now John Kafaro. Find 516 00:22:57.240 --> 00:22:59.039 the photo of him in the eighties wearing the double 517 00:22:59.079 --> 00:23:01.519 breasted suit is I can't say, is it a comb 518 00:23:01.559 --> 00:23:03.599 over or a hair piece unclear? 519 00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:05.000 I don't know. It looks like he's trying to kill 520 00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:06.240 the aristicats. 521 00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:11.599 He pleaded guilty to bribing James Traffick. 522 00:23:11.799 --> 00:23:13.680 Yeah, he's that's who it. Wow, I saw. 523 00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:16.799 Those guys both that amazing. 524 00:23:17.160 --> 00:23:20.480 Convictions campaign finance bribery. Yeah, this is the guy that 525 00:23:20.599 --> 00:23:23.119 got the no big contract or the he So he 526 00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:24.079 didn't seems. 527 00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:27.400 Like when he gets mad, h his uh, his shirt 528 00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:29.079 rolls up like what's that thing called when you have 529 00:23:29.079 --> 00:23:30.920 a tuxedo? Say, yeah, the tuxedo front. 530 00:23:30.920 --> 00:23:33.880 It looks like that probably happened when he found out 531 00:23:33.880 --> 00:23:36.720 about the alogy. So John Kafara didn't do the top 532 00:23:36.759 --> 00:23:39.119 match work he's known for, and now they have to 533 00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:41.680 drain the pool and start from scratch. The president per 534 00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:44.359 usual is blaming everyone else, including reporter John Carl of 535 00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:49.640 ABC News quote dirty cop James Comy and other alleged vandals, 536 00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:53.000 five of whom have apparently been arrested, including a former 537 00:23:53.039 --> 00:23:55.720 Olympic canoer who says he was just reaching into the 538 00:23:55.720 --> 00:23:57.519 pool to feel the detached liner. 539 00:23:57.680 --> 00:23:59.240 Seems like he was up the up the reflecting pool 540 00:23:59.240 --> 00:23:59.680 without a paddle. 541 00:23:59.720 --> 00:24:05.119 This guy. Trump threatened the rest of us with a 542 00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:07.720 ten year prison sentence for the destruction or even the 543 00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:11.079 attempted destruction of such things, which he said, quote will 544 00:24:11.119 --> 00:24:14.640 be fully enforced naturally. Trump got a lot of appropriately 545 00:24:14.680 --> 00:24:18.440 skeptical questions on this and the Oval on Monday. Here's 546 00:24:18.480 --> 00:24:19.000 what he said. 547 00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:21.720 Are the contractors who did the initial work with a 548 00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:24.240 reflecting pool, are they to blame for the current condition? 549 00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:24.759 Or is it. 550 00:24:26.759 --> 00:24:29.519 Vandals? You know, we have one hundred and we have 551 00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:32.720 a I think two hundred and ninety three hundred foot 552 00:24:33.160 --> 00:24:36.440 slip right through it. Probably a box cutter or a 553 00:24:36.519 --> 00:24:37.480 knife of some kind. 554 00:24:37.640 --> 00:24:40.240 The National Guard and police have been all over the mall. 555 00:24:40.440 --> 00:24:42.880 How would these vandals have gotten so close to do 556 00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:43.720 something like that? 557 00:24:44.519 --> 00:24:46.359 Do you have these I mean we didn't have We 558 00:24:46.400 --> 00:24:47.279 didn't have a lot of them. 559 00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:49.200 Then, who would think that somebody would go into a 560 00:24:49.240 --> 00:24:51.119 pool and take a knife and start cutting it? 561 00:24:51.519 --> 00:24:54.519 A proof of that? Yeah, I have a photos. Well 562 00:24:54.559 --> 00:24:56.880 let's put it this way. When you have a three 563 00:24:57.000 --> 00:24:59.640 hundred and fifty I think it's three fifty fifty three 564 00:24:59.680 --> 00:25:03.400 hundred fifty foot slid from one end to the other, 565 00:25:04.279 --> 00:25:06.759 you think that's proof. You think that's where has it 566 00:25:06.759 --> 00:25:07.480 been down there today? 567 00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:09.119 Looking for that slip that you mentioned? 568 00:25:10.039 --> 00:25:12.000 What you'd have to do is see the parks dequirement. 569 00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:12.720 They'll show it to you. 570 00:25:12.920 --> 00:25:15.519 Curious about this situation is we stood here with you 571 00:25:15.559 --> 00:25:18.519 in April when you first revealed the plans. I said, 572 00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:21.119 what in April you showed us pictures of what you 573 00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:23.200 were going to do. You said you had a guy 574 00:25:23.559 --> 00:25:24.680 who was going to do it in a week for 575 00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:25.720 about a million dollars. 576 00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:31.119 Well it's yeah, okay, read brock Hussein Obama. Have you 577 00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:34.359 ever heard of them? He spent two years and over 578 00:25:34.359 --> 00:25:39.400 one hundred million dollars. I spent two months maybe less, 579 00:25:40.839 --> 00:25:42.880 and I have a better product. Now I can't help. 580 00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:45.400 But if somebody goes in where the knife and starts 581 00:25:46.039 --> 00:25:49.160 hacking it up, and we also have pictures of it. 582 00:25:49.240 --> 00:25:52.519 You know that's the right time you'll see it. You'll 583 00:25:52.519 --> 00:25:53.960 see it in court. 584 00:25:54.440 --> 00:25:57.240 So pissed, find the guy who did the slit? 585 00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:00.839 Yeah, with the box cut there like it's a reflecting pool, 586 00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:04.039 Muhammadatta just also horizing. 587 00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:08.039 I wonder where someone could have possibly gotten the idea 588 00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:12.240 to use a knife to cut the reflecting pool. Might 589 00:26:12.279 --> 00:26:14.000 have a clue here, Let's watch. 590 00:26:14.279 --> 00:26:16.559 This will last for at least fifty years. You'll never 591 00:26:16.599 --> 00:26:18.079 have a leak. It's very straw. 592 00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:20.000 You couldn't if you had a knife. 593 00:26:20.079 --> 00:26:22.559 I don't want to give anybody ideas if you had 594 00:26:22.599 --> 00:26:23.960 a knife, you can't even cut it. 595 00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:27.200 So powerful powerful. 596 00:26:26.799 --> 00:26:31.920 Rubber, powerful rubber, powerful rubber not so powerful. So I 597 00:26:31.960 --> 00:26:34.400 feel like this went from mostly funny to fairly alarming 598 00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:37.720 now that they're trying to arrest random scapegoats just because 599 00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:40.319 Trump can't admit he fucked up. What do you guys 600 00:26:40.359 --> 00:26:41.240 make of this whole situation? 601 00:26:41.799 --> 00:26:44.000 So you make a big deal about how you're going 602 00:26:44.079 --> 00:26:46.759 to finally fix the pool because rock Custine, Obama and 603 00:26:46.839 --> 00:26:48.680 Joe Biden couldn't do it, You're the only one who 604 00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:50.160 has the ability to do it. You do a no 605 00:26:50.279 --> 00:26:52.759 big contract for a guy who is the crony picture 606 00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:55.039 in the crony entry of the dictionary. 607 00:26:55.359 --> 00:26:56.359 You declare victory. 608 00:26:56.680 --> 00:26:58.599 Then all of a sudden, the allergy is coming back, 609 00:26:58.720 --> 00:27:01.799 and so you have your people lie about that. They 610 00:27:01.799 --> 00:27:04.079 post pictures saying that it's better that this is not real. 611 00:27:04.119 --> 00:27:06.720 It's perfect, it's perfect, it's perfect. The lie draws more 612 00:27:06.759 --> 00:27:09.279 attention to the story, so reporters start covering it. Okay, 613 00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:11.839 because you hyped it up so much and are lying, 614 00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:14.680 the media is making more of an issue of it. 615 00:27:14.680 --> 00:27:17.079 So you start blaming saboteurs, even though they don't seem 616 00:27:17.160 --> 00:27:20.640 to exist. That generates only more coverage. Now you're arresting 617 00:27:20.720 --> 00:27:24.720 random people for checking out the mess that you've made. 618 00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:28.160 Now you've turned what was a silly and ultimately small 619 00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:32.160 story about a pool renovation into gross incompetence, corruption, and 620 00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:34.599 rising fascism. So there's even more coverage. 621 00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:36.079 And then you clear that. Then you declared that the 622 00:27:36.079 --> 00:27:38.559 media is obsessed. Why is the media so obsessed with 623 00:27:38.599 --> 00:27:39.680 what's happening to the reflecting? 624 00:27:39.680 --> 00:27:42.720 Well, well, maybe you said you went and held up 625 00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:44.400 a picture about who you were the one that was 626 00:27:44.440 --> 00:27:46.720 going to fix it, and then turned it into just 627 00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:54.079 an example of every aspect of the lying, the lawlessness, 628 00:27:54.480 --> 00:27:58.000 the corrupt deals that you're making, the incompetence. You've just 629 00:27:58.039 --> 00:28:00.000 turned it into a perfect metaphor of everything you've done 630 00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:01.000 wrong in this administration. 631 00:28:01.039 --> 00:28:02.000 So yeah, people are gonna cover it. 632 00:28:02.119 --> 00:28:06.480 I'm still in the mostly funny camp. Jim Comey at 633 00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:10.400 his house, like cultivating sea monkeys in the backyard, releasing 634 00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:11.680 them into the reflecting pool. 635 00:28:12.279 --> 00:28:12.839 That's funny. 636 00:28:12.839 --> 00:28:16.440 Like John Cafaro having a company called Greenwater Services. 637 00:28:16.799 --> 00:28:17.880 That's some funny shito. 638 00:28:18.359 --> 00:28:21.640 Obviously, it's bad that they're arresting this random Olympian man 639 00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:24.759 who was just biking around and accusing of sabotaging. Like 640 00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:29.079 you watch Janine Piro ranting away and Fox about this stuff, 641 00:28:29.079 --> 00:28:31.640 and we're all used to seeing her, you know, like 642 00:28:31.720 --> 00:28:34.119 six chardonnaise deep, just kind of like doing a primetime 643 00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:35.880 and then you remember, oh wait, this woman can issue 644 00:28:35.960 --> 00:28:39.279 the penis. That's actually a little scary. It's bad, but 645 00:28:39.359 --> 00:28:41.039 I think all of this will probably go away because 646 00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:45.759 obviously this is just algae grows because it's sunny and 647 00:28:45.799 --> 00:28:47.799 it's hot in the pool and there's water in it. 648 00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:49.839 It's and we're talking about it, and it sounds like 649 00:28:49.880 --> 00:28:51.799 they just they just did everything wrong. They did a 650 00:28:51.799 --> 00:28:53.599 bad job, is the other thing. And they spent a 651 00:28:53.599 --> 00:28:56.640 lot of money on it. Also, like none of these 652 00:28:56.680 --> 00:28:59.319 people are going to jail because like all of this 653 00:28:59.359 --> 00:29:02.319 is gonna get laugh out of court. Tmz tmz DC 654 00:29:03.559 --> 00:29:05.119 was down there all day today and I have all 655 00:29:05.160 --> 00:29:08.799 this footage of people being like arrested, detained, and these 656 00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:11.559 people are like you can see on foot on camera, 657 00:29:11.640 --> 00:29:13.319 they're just like look, some of them are just looking 658 00:29:13.359 --> 00:29:17.079 down to take pictures and like seven like there's like 659 00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:20.359 park police, there's DC, They're all it's complete madness. It 660 00:29:20.440 --> 00:29:23.400 is just it is a lie on the level of 661 00:29:23.480 --> 00:29:25.799 like now we're back to like Sean Spicer and the 662 00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:28.680 inaugural crowd. It's like, you know who cut the three 663 00:29:28.759 --> 00:29:31.720 hundred foot slit in the reflecting pool. Fucking no one 664 00:29:32.119 --> 00:29:36.200 because that it just did not happen because you you 665 00:29:36.200 --> 00:29:39.440 look at the reflectable there is no slit visible. Reporters 666 00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:41.880 have looked even since he just said that, so it's 667 00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:46.200 it didn't happen. It's impossible to do that three hundred feet, 668 00:29:46.240 --> 00:29:48.799 that's the size of that's the size of a football field. 669 00:29:49.079 --> 00:29:51.839 Someone's gonna take a box gutter and could have slit 670 00:29:51.880 --> 00:29:53.640 the size of the football field, and no one's gonna 671 00:29:53.640 --> 00:29:55.880 pay attention to that. No one's gonna see that. They're 672 00:29:55.920 --> 00:29:58.400 not going to be seen. Also, even if they did, 673 00:29:58.519 --> 00:30:02.240 wouldn't cause the algae wouldn't cuss the problem. Also, you 674 00:30:02.319 --> 00:30:04.680 spend fourteen million dollars on a reno that can be 675 00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:07.839 undid with a box cutter. But also what kind of 676 00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:08.599 renovation is that? 677 00:30:08.839 --> 00:30:11.200 It's also not a there's chunks of it floating up 678 00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:13.119 all over the fucking thing. I'll just been grown since 679 00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:16.400 last week. It's what everybody said would happen. I just like, 680 00:30:16.880 --> 00:30:19.160 obviously this is very silly. But now we're at the 681 00:30:19.160 --> 00:30:25.039 point where they got federal cops patrolling the National Mall 682 00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:27.480 to arrest people who are going to point things out 683 00:30:27.480 --> 00:30:30.480 that embarrass the deer leader. It is it is, you know, 684 00:30:30.519 --> 00:30:33.599 the ballroom and now this. These are perfect metaphors for 685 00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:35.559 what this administration has done. I think it's the kind 686 00:30:35.559 --> 00:30:38.000 of thing that'll stick with people, in part because it's 687 00:30:38.039 --> 00:30:40.480 also stupid that this is what's taking up the president's 688 00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:42.400 time and. 689 00:30:42.440 --> 00:30:44.119 Even if no one was paying attention to it, probably 690 00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:45.039 still taking up his time. 691 00:30:45.559 --> 00:30:47.079 Yeah, Well, he's the reason we're all paying attention. 692 00:30:47.640 --> 00:30:50.319 The reason we're all focused on this, he drove his 693 00:30:50.319 --> 00:30:53.200 ass down to the reflecting pool. Like this all started 694 00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:55.079 with him doing a drive by the thing. They're gonna look, 695 00:30:55.079 --> 00:30:56.640 they're gonna build a wall around this thing too. They're 696 00:30:56.640 --> 00:30:57.319 gonna have to cover it. 697 00:30:57.440 --> 00:30:57.680 They are. 698 00:30:57.680 --> 00:30:59.400 They're gonna cover it up so people can't take photos 699 00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:01.240 of it, the same way they built that giant wall 700 00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:03.160 around the renovation of the ballroom because they didn't want 701 00:31:03.160 --> 00:31:05.839 embarrassing photos of the ballroom. Like this, it's not going 702 00:31:05.920 --> 00:31:07.480 to go away. They're reflecting pools just there. It's a 703 00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:09.519 big part of the National Mall. It's eight acres big, 704 00:31:09.559 --> 00:31:11.920 it's massive, and it is not going to be fixed 705 00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:12.400 for a long time. 706 00:31:12.440 --> 00:31:13.400 They don't know how to fix it. 707 00:31:13.519 --> 00:31:17.319 And look, we know how serious this administration is about 708 00:31:17.359 --> 00:31:20.119 punishing people who destroy federal property. It is just something 709 00:31:20.160 --> 00:31:21.960 that they have cared about for a long time. 710 00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:24.759 Take it very seriously, Take it very very very seriously. 711 00:31:24.839 --> 00:31:29.839 Every single person who did that on January sixth completely free, pardoned, commuted, 712 00:31:29.960 --> 00:31:33.559 And now they're just arresting random people, which is which 713 00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:36.640 is fascinating. He's also now saying that his people are 714 00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:40.640 dumping fertilizer in there. They're dumping first vandals are dumping fertilizers. 715 00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:44.000 So they got that through the strait and now here 716 00:31:44.000 --> 00:31:45.839 we go. Now they got now they're dumping it in there. Yeah. 717 00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:47.759 The Komi thing, for those who didn't pay attention, is 718 00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:51.920 someone h there was some vandalism where someone on the 719 00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:54.000 lawn did like an eighty six forty. 720 00:31:53.759 --> 00:31:58.000 Seven unrelated to the unrelated to the reflecting point forty 721 00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:00.240 seven in grass truth at it. 722 00:32:00.279 --> 00:32:03.039 And so Trump thinks that because Komi did that with 723 00:32:03.079 --> 00:32:05.000 the shells or took a picture of the shells and 724 00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:08.400 posted it, which he is now also being prosecuted for, 725 00:32:08.759 --> 00:32:12.279 that someone was inspired by that to box cut his 726 00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:17.039 reflecting pool. One of the stupidest fucking things. We've covered 727 00:32:17.039 --> 00:32:19.640 a lot of stupid stories. Yes, is this is going 728 00:32:19.720 --> 00:32:21.880 to be a This is a chapter you're gonna want 729 00:32:21.880 --> 00:32:24.640 to come back to. Yeah, when the Trump story is 730 00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:26.519 we'll probably forget about it by the end of the 731 00:32:26.519 --> 00:32:29.119 Trump administration. But the reflecting pool, this is one of 732 00:32:29.160 --> 00:32:29.799 the dumber ones. 733 00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:30.960 I don't know that. 734 00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:32.759 Look, I think it's going to be in the ballroom 735 00:32:32.759 --> 00:32:34.599 category because this is just going to be something for 736 00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:36.480 months and months now they got to drain it again. 737 00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:38.519 It's not like their plan work the first time. 738 00:32:38.519 --> 00:32:40.359 They got a better plan this time because apparently the 739 00:32:40.359 --> 00:32:42.119 ship they put down on the floor that reflecting people 740 00:32:42.119 --> 00:32:44.960 didn't work. It's so, is it the same jack off 741 00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:46.160 that's going to be doing the next round? 742 00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:46.920 Is so are they. 743 00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:50.200 Getting a new contract of blue rubber floating in their 744 00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:52.640 footing pool just nuking it with chemicals? 745 00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:54.680 Well so bunny, because when the whole thing started, they 746 00:32:54.680 --> 00:32:56.720 were like, it seems kind of strange'shiring just like a 747 00:32:56.759 --> 00:32:57.200 pool guy. 748 00:32:57.440 --> 00:32:58.559 It's like, nah, he's got it. 749 00:32:59.200 --> 00:32:59.279 Well. 750 00:32:59.319 --> 00:33:01.799 It's also funny that last time we recorded, I think 751 00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:04.920 the Department of Interior was just posting fake pictures of 752 00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:07.880 the pool as blue and saying everything's great, And so 753 00:33:07.880 --> 00:33:09.279 they thought that was their plan for all. They were 754 00:33:09.319 --> 00:33:11.160 just gonna AI either way through it. And I guess 755 00:33:11.240 --> 00:33:13.319 now they're like, all right, the AI stuff didn't work, 756 00:33:13.359 --> 00:33:15.200 so now we're gonna have to blame some fake vandals 757 00:33:15.200 --> 00:33:16.920 and now we're gonna so. 758 00:33:17.039 --> 00:33:19.440 We're not that far away from like the government posting 759 00:33:19.440 --> 00:33:21.880 great news. Everybody gases down to eleven dollars a gallon, 760 00:33:21.960 --> 00:33:24.359 you're all getting more chocolate this week, your chocolate rations 761 00:33:24.359 --> 00:33:24.799 are up. 762 00:33:26.519 --> 00:33:28.680 So one renovation that did go well for Trump this 763 00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:31.839 week the brand new Katari Force one that he'll be 764 00:33:31.839 --> 00:33:34.839 flying around in and ultimately taking with him when he 765 00:33:34.960 --> 00:33:37.519 leaves the White House as a parting gift. The government 766 00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:39.519 won't say how much we all paid to retrofit the 767 00:33:39.559 --> 00:33:41.359 new plane, though the Secretary of the Air Force set 768 00:33:41.359 --> 00:33:43.480 in a hearing last year that it would probably be 769 00:33:43.599 --> 00:33:46.400 less than four hundred million dollars. Privately, the Air Force 770 00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:49.079 said it would use some of its nuclear modernization funds 771 00:33:49.079 --> 00:33:50.960 to pay for upgrading the plane, because why do we 772 00:33:50.960 --> 00:33:53.319 need those? And sure enough, a month later there was 773 00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:56.519 an unexplained nine hundred million dollar transfer from a nuclear 774 00:33:56.519 --> 00:34:00.400 account to an unnamed classified project. They are called the 775 00:34:00.440 --> 00:34:03.359 Plane project classified, which is why they're not revealing any 776 00:34:03.440 --> 00:34:06.720 if the costs. Not that Trump wants you to think 777 00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:09.480 this thing was done cheaply. He's actually proud of how 778 00:34:09.559 --> 00:34:11.239 much money it costs. 779 00:34:11.519 --> 00:34:15.639 Here he is now this plane was transformed into a 780 00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:19.960 flying White House at a level of luxury that nobody's 781 00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:24.639 ever seen before, probably even almost outside of an aeroplane. 782 00:34:24.719 --> 00:34:26.800 It's nobody's ever seen anything like this. 783 00:34:27.719 --> 00:34:30.880 Nobody's ever seen anything, not even it's nicer than any 784 00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:32.639 room outside of an airplane. 785 00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:34.920 That's all but a very small set of rooms. 786 00:34:36.679 --> 00:34:39.840 There's also there's still another two air Force ones on order. 787 00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:42.880 This is just what the Pentagon is calling a bridge aircraft. 788 00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:45.000 Well, he's gonna steal it after that's this is the 789 00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:46.880 bridge one, because is when he takes to go. Is 790 00:34:46.920 --> 00:34:50.719 the the go one. This is the dog gonna take 791 00:34:50.719 --> 00:34:51.079 with him. 792 00:34:51.960 --> 00:34:53.639 How old do you think this one pulls? 793 00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:56.440 I mean I talked to Maggie and Jonathan Swan about this. 794 00:34:56.480 --> 00:34:59.280 In their book, they report that Katar initially wanted to 795 00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:01.400 be paid one hundred fifty to two hundred million dollars 796 00:35:01.400 --> 00:35:03.559 for the plane. Oh and then suddenly the plane was 797 00:35:03.559 --> 00:35:06.000 a gift. And they report that the idea for making 798 00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:08.840 a gift was quote generated at the potus level. So 799 00:35:08.880 --> 00:35:12.360 it's just part of this ongoing corruption story. I think 800 00:35:12.360 --> 00:35:15.519 this has really become a monument to the corruption, and 801 00:35:15.559 --> 00:35:18.639 it really broke through in the moment. And I do 802 00:35:18.679 --> 00:35:21.079 think this is a big problem for him politically, to 803 00:35:21.119 --> 00:35:22.400 the extent that he cares. I mean, it is a 804 00:35:22.440 --> 00:35:25.079 problem for him politically, But like one of his superpowers, 805 00:35:25.079 --> 00:35:27.079 as we all remember, is that the years of branding 806 00:35:27.159 --> 00:35:29.880 on The Apprentice and with the Art of the Deal 807 00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:32.119 was that he was a brilliant businessman and he was rich, 808 00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:33.840 and he didn't need this job, and he had all 809 00:35:33.840 --> 00:35:36.239 the money he wanted. This was really a sacrifice was 810 00:35:36.239 --> 00:35:39.679 coming into government and this the plane. The narrative around 811 00:35:39.679 --> 00:35:44.199 the corruption has really pierced that narrative, and you would 812 00:35:44.199 --> 00:35:46.360 think he would care, but then we watch him do 813 00:35:46.599 --> 00:35:49.400 like a rollout of his corrupt gifts, very proud, where 814 00:35:49.400 --> 00:35:51.679 he does remarks and like a stage photo op. 815 00:35:51.760 --> 00:35:54.559 So you think the Katari's are feeling like they got 816 00:35:54.559 --> 00:35:55.400 their money's worth. 817 00:35:55.239 --> 00:35:56.559 Yeah, or this worked out great. 818 00:35:57.119 --> 00:35:58.960 You think they give this free airplane and look what 819 00:35:58.960 --> 00:36:01.840 they got. They got round blowing their shit up and uh, 820 00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:05.039 their economy in trouble because of the war in the 821 00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:06.599 Middle East. The Trump caused, I don't know if they 822 00:36:06.599 --> 00:36:06.920 feel like. 823 00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:09.639 They got sitting there next to JD doing track changes 824 00:36:09.679 --> 00:36:13.119 in the fucking document. No, no, no, we can't do that. 825 00:36:13.159 --> 00:36:14.920 They're not doing that. They're not doing that. That that 826 00:36:15.079 --> 00:36:18.719 that that the uh it is like, you know, it's 827 00:36:18.719 --> 00:36:20.840 interesting the difference between term one and term two with Trump, right, 828 00:36:20.840 --> 00:36:23.519 because term one, like he felt like he got all 829 00:36:23.559 --> 00:36:25.559 the kind of he gets all the prestige and benefits 830 00:36:25.559 --> 00:36:27.440 of being present. He loves having that plane, and he 831 00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:28.800 would do speeches in front of the plane. 832 00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:29.480 He loves doing that. 833 00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:31.760 And it was always such a bummer to have Trump, 834 00:36:32.599 --> 00:36:34.960 you know, garner the prestige of the White House right 835 00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:36.880 like he had that power behind him, which he which 836 00:36:37.159 --> 00:36:40.199 he did, uh, and and that included Air Force one. 837 00:36:40.239 --> 00:36:42.079 It was like, oh so, just so, you know, sad 838 00:36:42.119 --> 00:36:45.440 to see a Donald Trump representing our country on that plane. 839 00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:47.239 And now we're gonna have this new version of the 840 00:36:47.239 --> 00:36:51.039 plane that looks different and it's actually his plane that 841 00:36:51.119 --> 00:36:53.440 he's taking with him. And so now whenever he gets 842 00:36:53.480 --> 00:36:55.079 off the plane, we're gonna have this little symbol of 843 00:36:55.079 --> 00:36:57.079 corruption behind him in every shot. And he's gonna still 844 00:36:57.159 --> 00:36:58.559 use it like he did the old one, but they 845 00:36:58.559 --> 00:37:00.960 were behind him. Is the proof that he is the 846 00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:03.840 most corrupt leader on earth, maybe the most corrupts certainly 847 00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:06.840 the most corrupt president in American history, right there on 848 00:37:06.880 --> 00:37:07.280 the tarmac. 849 00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:09.239 What do you guys think of the red, white, and blue. 850 00:37:09.320 --> 00:37:09.960 I kind of like it. 851 00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:11.760 I don't like it. Yeah, it looks pretty cool. 852 00:37:11.800 --> 00:37:14.960 I mean the old version I like the old version too, 853 00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:16.960 like the Robin z egg blue on the bottom, and 854 00:37:17.000 --> 00:37:20.119 like you know, that was also a little piece of history. 855 00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:22.920 I mean that was redesigned with by JFK in nineteen 856 00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:26.599 sixty two. He also spent a bunch of time, like 857 00:37:26.639 --> 00:37:30.000 personally with a designer named Raymond Lowie, like redesigning the 858 00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:31.639 look of Air Force one. And Trump just sort of 859 00:37:31.639 --> 00:37:34.840 trashed that as he's trashing the Kennedy Center and renaming 860 00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:37.519 that and all these other monuments and institutions. So it's 861 00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:40.760 a piece of a puzzle. But yeah, I mean aesthetically 862 00:37:40.840 --> 00:37:42.360 it's like it's a sick plane. 863 00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:44.239 As far as Donald Trump being in charge of any 864 00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:47.679 kind of design, I feel like he did. He didn't 865 00:37:47.679 --> 00:37:48.559 fuck it up too badly. 866 00:37:48.599 --> 00:37:49.199 It looks good. 867 00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:51.679 I could have passed. No, I thought it could have. 868 00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:53.519 We'll see what the inside looks like. Yeah, we haven't 869 00:37:53.519 --> 00:37:54.360 seen the inside yet. 870 00:37:54.360 --> 00:37:55.360 I saw a few pictures. 871 00:37:55.400 --> 00:37:57.159 I haven't. I haven't seen the I just saw the outside. 872 00:37:57.159 --> 00:37:58.679 I think it's just bigger and bigger. 873 00:37:58.960 --> 00:38:02.199 Yeah, I will say the one thing that is incredibly 874 00:38:02.280 --> 00:38:04.840 ugly is they have instead of the kind of classic 875 00:38:05.519 --> 00:38:08.039 American flag on the back, on the tail, they have 876 00:38:08.119 --> 00:38:11.599 a waving American flag like cheap paint, Like it looks 877 00:38:11.679 --> 00:38:12.440 tacky and it. 878 00:38:12.440 --> 00:38:13.599 Doesn't fit with the design. 879 00:38:13.840 --> 00:38:15.880 It does fit with his design, yes, which is that 880 00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:17.840 makes okay good? At least there's some Trump on there. 881 00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:18.559 Yeah. 882 00:38:18.320 --> 00:38:21.079 So instead of having just sort of a classic straight 883 00:38:21.239 --> 00:38:24.119 American flag as you would, that's not waving because it's 884 00:38:24.159 --> 00:38:26.599 not a fucking flag. It's a painting of a flag, 885 00:38:26.639 --> 00:38:28.760 so you don't need to paint it waving. They painted 886 00:38:28.760 --> 00:38:32.079 the cheesy waving thing on it, which looks like ass. 887 00:38:31.800 --> 00:38:33.559 I'm surprised he didn't put his name on it. 888 00:38:33.719 --> 00:38:36.159 I am too busy again. In the Maggie and Jonathan's book, 889 00:38:36.199 --> 00:38:38.559 they talk like, there's the scene where Caroline Leavitt walks 890 00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:41.880 into the Oval office and Trump is personally super gluing 891 00:38:42.320 --> 00:38:46.880 some little gaudy gold thing onto the mancilpiece. He's so 892 00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:50.000 personally engaged and invested in this stuff because. 893 00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:52.920 He's a bored old man, has no interest in governing. 894 00:38:53.239 --> 00:38:55.119 It's just like, why couldn't he go into It's interest 895 00:38:55.159 --> 00:38:57.760 in using the governing to make money for himself and 896 00:38:57.760 --> 00:39:00.920 his friends and to settle old scores. An interior that's it. 897 00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:03.480 An interior design that's his hobby in golf. 898 00:39:03.679 --> 00:39:07.639 Yeah, at least like Howard Hughes had the decency to 899 00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:09.760 lock the door and fill the jars with piss Like 900 00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:13.840 this guy's just got It's just a different kind of 901 00:39:13.159 --> 00:39:17.280 of kind of old craziness of like putting your name 902 00:39:17.320 --> 00:39:18.880 on everything, putting gold on everything. 903 00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:21.519 The question of what does Katar think they got a 904 00:39:21.559 --> 00:39:23.760 good deal here is an interesting one because remember, in 905 00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:26.719 the first term, Qatar was briefly like blockaded by all 906 00:39:26.760 --> 00:39:30.119 the other countries in the Gulf, and then ultimately that 907 00:39:30.199 --> 00:39:35.639 deal was mediated by Jared Kushner. And interestingly, that mediation 908 00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:37.760 happened right around the time when the Kataris, I think, 909 00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:40.480 finally came in and bailed Jared out for like the 910 00:39:40.519 --> 00:39:42.880 six six to six Park gave or whatever real estate 911 00:39:42.920 --> 00:39:46.280 deal he had done that went terribly south, because they, 912 00:39:46.599 --> 00:39:48.719 you know, did the biggest real estate investment in Manhattan 913 00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:49.360 history right. 914 00:39:49.280 --> 00:39:50.599 Before the financial crisis. 915 00:39:51.039 --> 00:39:53.920 So it's interesting, though, these guitar is tiny and super 916 00:39:53.960 --> 00:39:57.760 isolated and pisses all its friends off through Al Jazeera 917 00:39:57.760 --> 00:39:59.679 and its foreign policy choices, and I think they wanted 918 00:39:59.719 --> 00:40:01.760 to get well with Trump. But then of course the 919 00:40:01.800 --> 00:40:05.159 Iran stuff kind of complicates the Ledger here on whether 920 00:40:05.199 --> 00:40:05.920 this worked out well. 921 00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:08.239 And look now they gave a plane to one president. 922 00:40:08.400 --> 00:40:11.639 Now the expectation is gonna be that every American president 923 00:40:11.639 --> 00:40:12.360 gets a plane. 924 00:40:12.119 --> 00:40:14.760 For I know, here's a plane. If you do as 925 00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:18.880 a favor and stop causing foreign policy disasters that lead 926 00:40:18.920 --> 00:40:21.440 to our hotels exploding, that would be great, if you 927 00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:24.239 could just we gave you the fucking planet. We got 928 00:40:24.239 --> 00:40:28.719 a rosewood on fire here. We're trying to convince people 929 00:40:28.719 --> 00:40:30.519 that it's awesome and no big deal that we're this 930 00:40:30.639 --> 00:40:32.480 close to these two iran. 931 00:40:32.159 --> 00:40:33.880 And As aren't doing it we need. 932 00:40:33.960 --> 00:40:38.360 Yeah, Jesus Christ, you know, yeah, the gay people can't 933 00:40:38.360 --> 00:40:40.280 hold hands. But we got a fucking four seasons going. 934 00:40:40.360 --> 00:40:41.320 Can you help us out. 935 00:40:42.679 --> 00:40:44.320 Trying to build an even taller building. 936 00:40:44.400 --> 00:40:54.440 Yeah, Patzi America is brought to you by Helix. 937 00:40:55.199 --> 00:40:58.119 Sleep is I think maybe the most important thing in 938 00:40:58.159 --> 00:40:59.920 my life. When I get a good night's sleep, I 939 00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:03.000 feel great. 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I 982 00:42:43.920 --> 00:42:44.760 love being omnivore. 983 00:42:44.840 --> 00:42:45.679 The multiverse pluma. 984 00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:47.320 I don't want to be an obligate carnivore like one 985 00:42:47.320 --> 00:42:51.039 of those meat people from YouTube The. 986 00:42:50.960 --> 00:42:51.840 Little King over here. 987 00:42:51.880 --> 00:42:53.800 Those meat people are just their faces are bright red. 988 00:42:53.840 --> 00:42:55.480 You can see every vein in their body like I've 989 00:42:55.519 --> 00:42:56.320 never felt better. 990 00:42:56.440 --> 00:42:58.159 Yeah, I don't know that. You know what feeling better 991 00:42:58.280 --> 00:42:59.960 is back in your cat. 992 00:43:00.280 --> 00:43:03.320 And the point is your cat got I keep that 993 00:43:03.400 --> 00:43:06.000 cat healthy, and that means meat. 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Well, surprise, 1014 00:44:05.920 --> 00:44:08.639 this corrupt moron has now taken over for Tulsey Gabbert 1015 00:44:08.800 --> 00:44:12.400 as the acting Director of National Intelligence, a development that 1016 00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:15.840 both Democrats and Republicans had tried to avoid. As Senator 1017 00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:18.480 Mark Warner explained to Tommy, the original plan was to 1018 00:44:18.679 --> 00:44:21.840 immediately confirm Trump's permanent pick for the job, federal prosecutor 1019 00:44:21.880 --> 00:44:24.880 and former SEC Chair Jay Clayton. But Trump got wind 1020 00:44:24.920 --> 00:44:26.920 of that and announced that he was pulling back Clayton's 1021 00:44:26.920 --> 00:44:30.800 nomination until Clayton's replacement at SDNY is approved by the Senate, 1022 00:44:31.400 --> 00:44:34.039 all but ensuring that Paulty gets at least some time 1023 00:44:34.440 --> 00:44:37.719 on the job. Why do you guys think that Trump 1024 00:44:37.719 --> 00:44:40.480 didn't want his own pick? Jay Clayton confirmed as soon 1025 00:44:40.480 --> 00:44:41.920 as possible he did pick him. 1026 00:44:42.840 --> 00:44:44.880 Was it hard to be inside of his mind? I 1027 00:44:44.920 --> 00:44:48.079 think there's two things going on. One is the maschinations 1028 00:44:48.119 --> 00:44:53.639 around Faiza and getting the SDNY confirmed, who is a 1029 00:44:53.679 --> 00:44:56.960 former federal prosecutor but also his personal lawyer at I 1030 00:44:56.960 --> 00:44:59.199 think Solomon Crsullivan and Cromwell, I think is where he is. 1031 00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:01.760 So he sort of wants to get one of his 1032 00:45:01.840 --> 00:45:05.239 guys in at SDN Y fine. I think also, Uh, 1033 00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:07.599 Bill Poulty can do a lot of damage being d 1034 00:45:07.639 --> 00:45:09.679 and I for a couple of weeks, get some get 1035 00:45:09.719 --> 00:45:14.599 some good, get good good political prosecutions going if he wants. 1036 00:45:14.639 --> 00:45:16.000 That's what he did when he was going through the 1037 00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:18.599 mortgage documents, uh and trying to find ways to go 1038 00:45:18.639 --> 00:45:21.880 after uh Comy and Tiss James and all the rest. 1039 00:45:21.960 --> 00:45:23.400 So uh yeah, let's get it. 1040 00:45:23.440 --> 00:45:25.719 He gets it, you know, get your fingers into the 1041 00:45:26.119 --> 00:45:28.000 all the intelligence you want for a couple of weeks. 1042 00:45:28.039 --> 00:45:28.719 That's valuable. 1043 00:45:28.800 --> 00:45:33.840 Apparently, someone a source familiar told CNN just before we 1044 00:45:33.880 --> 00:45:37.760 recorded that Paulty is going to start carrying out firings, 1045 00:45:37.800 --> 00:45:39.880 that the deep state firings have begun, and that part 1046 00:45:39.880 --> 00:45:41.920 of it is to I guess, get him in there 1047 00:45:41.960 --> 00:45:44.039 so he can fire a bunch of fucking deep state people. 1048 00:45:44.119 --> 00:45:44.320 Yeah. 1049 00:45:44.320 --> 00:45:45.920 So Mark Warner, when I talked to him, was so 1050 00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:48.519 concerned about Bill Poulti's accessed information or being in the 1051 00:45:48.599 --> 00:45:50.360 job even for a minute, that he was basically ready 1052 00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:54.039 to unanimously con just like confirm Clayton by UC just 1053 00:45:54.039 --> 00:45:56.599 like push him forward and get it done. I think 1054 00:45:56.639 --> 00:45:59.559 that Trump's weird gambit here is like he's mad that 1055 00:45:59.639 --> 00:46:02.159 Republicans told him no about anything, so he's going to 1056 00:46:02.320 --> 00:46:05.000 just freak out and decide to change the kind of 1057 00:46:05.079 --> 00:46:08.920 up the ante. I think he genuinely seems to think 1058 00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:13.039 that he can use the bypart is in desire to 1059 00:46:13.800 --> 00:46:17.280 pass a very important intelligence collection program as a way 1060 00:46:17.320 --> 00:46:20.119 to shoehorn in the Save Act and get that done. 1061 00:46:20.639 --> 00:46:23.199 Which is there crazy bill to like tackle the made 1062 00:46:23.280 --> 00:46:26.800 up problem of non citizen voter registration just doesn't happen. 1063 00:46:27.039 --> 00:46:30.079 But then with perspective Pulty like, I think the question 1064 00:46:30.199 --> 00:46:32.440 is does he want him to root around intelligence information, 1065 00:46:32.719 --> 00:46:34.840 find stuff about his enemies and then refer to the 1066 00:46:34.880 --> 00:46:37.320 dj or do something with it, or does Trump just 1067 00:46:37.360 --> 00:46:40.960 want a purge of d and I employees. I don't 1068 00:46:40.960 --> 00:46:43.360 really get why he couldn't have had Telsea Gabbert do 1069 00:46:43.440 --> 00:46:45.199 a polled purge of dn I employees. 1070 00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:47.400 Also seems like Jake Clayton would be happy to do 1071 00:46:47.440 --> 00:46:49.679 that too. Jake Clayton has not some like like, yeah, 1072 00:46:49.679 --> 00:46:52.559 he's better than Bill Poulty, but he's been very loyal 1073 00:46:52.559 --> 00:46:52.880 to Trump. 1074 00:46:52.960 --> 00:46:55.039 He's very mad. I do think he's a serious person, 1075 00:46:55.239 --> 00:46:58.440 who's you know, serious prosecutor was you know, uh was 1076 00:46:58.440 --> 00:47:00.760 the sec. Yeah, you know, so he's like had big 1077 00:47:00.840 --> 00:47:04.280 jobs and hopefully like brings some relevant experience to this job. Plt. 1078 00:47:04.320 --> 00:47:07.400 He's obviously a clown. Speaking of Toolsy Gabbard, did either 1079 00:47:07.440 --> 00:47:10.239 of you guys read the insane Washington Post story about 1080 00:47:10.280 --> 00:47:12.719 the uh, the the cults she grew up in that 1081 00:47:12.840 --> 00:47:16.599 maybe still controls her wild wild story. 1082 00:47:16.880 --> 00:47:19.199 Yeah, it's one of those things where because it's coming 1083 00:47:19.239 --> 00:47:24.159 out after she's gone, it's like, oh, well she shouldn't 1084 00:47:24.159 --> 00:47:27.320 be dni well and she's not. But man, you kind 1085 00:47:27.320 --> 00:47:28.960 of the thing that I took away from it is 1086 00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:31.559 one of the things about Tulsi Gabbard. I think that 1087 00:47:31.920 --> 00:47:34.480 is she's just a puzzle. She's just kind of confusing 1088 00:47:34.519 --> 00:47:35.000 figure her. 1089 00:47:35.159 --> 00:47:36.800 Yeah, there's like a few more pieces went into place 1090 00:47:36.840 --> 00:47:37.519 after that story. 1091 00:47:37.599 --> 00:47:39.480 Yeah, but like it was always like, wait, she you know, 1092 00:47:39.559 --> 00:47:43.519 she introduces Bernie at the convention. She used to be 1093 00:47:43.719 --> 00:47:46.159 seen as on the left. She was anti war, had 1094 00:47:46.159 --> 00:47:50.360 this strange refusal to criticize Asad then goes in this 1095 00:47:50.400 --> 00:47:52.719 Trump direction. It was all just confusing her. She was 1096 00:47:52.800 --> 00:47:56.559 ideologically confusing. And then you dig into it and there's 1097 00:47:56.599 --> 00:47:59.159 this collection of memos. First of all, you've never seen 1098 00:47:59.199 --> 00:48:03.159 anything like it, just random. There's collection of memos that 1099 00:48:03.199 --> 00:48:06.679 seem to be from this figure, the sort of religious 1100 00:48:06.760 --> 00:48:10.679 leader inside of her life. These kind of like harsh, 1101 00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:14.760 like insulting directives coming all the time in her direction. 1102 00:48:15.079 --> 00:48:16.920 What she should say on television, what bills she should 1103 00:48:16.920 --> 00:48:18.840 intu do, is how should she talk about certain issues? 1104 00:48:19.039 --> 00:48:21.039 They deny that it's him. There's a lot of denials 1105 00:48:21.039 --> 00:48:23.000 in the thing. But there's also references inside of these 1106 00:48:23.039 --> 00:48:25.800 memos to his own life that don't refer to anybody else. 1107 00:48:26.519 --> 00:48:30.280 And also she said, there's like they matched like what 1108 00:48:30.320 --> 00:48:32.719 she actually said on TV and the legislation she introduced, 1109 00:48:32.760 --> 00:48:35.039 and they match exactly to all these memos with this 1110 00:48:35.119 --> 00:48:37.679 person was telling her to do these things. Yes. 1111 00:48:37.719 --> 00:48:40.119 And then on top of that, you have this collection 1112 00:48:40.199 --> 00:48:42.920 of people. It's all this sort of strange bit of 1113 00:48:43.480 --> 00:48:46.360 it's very cultish. It's also very like ham fisted and 1114 00:48:47.159 --> 00:48:50.480 silly and amateur that they have a collection of people 1115 00:48:50.559 --> 00:48:54.280 running dummy accounts to comment under articles on Hawaii newspapers 1116 00:48:54.360 --> 00:48:57.719 about Tulsi, and there's like on Twitter and all the rest. 1117 00:48:57.719 --> 00:49:01.719 It's this little kind of ramshackle, small operation. And then 1118 00:49:01.760 --> 00:49:03.320 at one point, which I thought it spoke to the 1119 00:49:03.400 --> 00:49:05.920 kind of I don't know what kind of like master 1120 00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:08.599 plan they thought they were implementing that that once Trump 1121 00:49:08.639 --> 00:49:12.320 started running, There's one of the notes says something along 1122 00:49:12.320 --> 00:49:13.880 the lines of it, it's a shame you're not running 1123 00:49:13.920 --> 00:49:15.760 because he's doing what you were gonna do. It's like, 1124 00:49:16.519 --> 00:49:18.920 be president, are what are we talking about? 1125 00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:19.079 She? 1126 00:49:19.159 --> 00:49:21.679 I mean, she ran, and she thinks apparently thinks the 1127 00:49:21.800 --> 00:49:23.480 D and I as a platform to run again and 1128 00:49:24.079 --> 00:49:25.840 wants to try. And it's apparently the thing that she 1129 00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:28.159 and Trump had gotten in fights about because you know, 1130 00:49:28.159 --> 00:49:31.039 remember she put out that weird video after getting back 1131 00:49:31.039 --> 00:49:33.960 to Hiroshima talk about nuclear annihilation. It was like, clearly 1132 00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:36.599 the context was in the midst of both the Putin 1133 00:49:36.719 --> 00:49:39.519 and Russia talks but also the Iran negotiations, and Trump, 1134 00:49:39.559 --> 00:49:40.960 I guess yelled at her about it. I mean, my 1135 00:49:41.079 --> 00:49:43.000 reaction to the story was somewhere to yours love it, 1136 00:49:43.039 --> 00:49:46.559 which is like she's such a bizarre character, and like 1137 00:49:46.599 --> 00:49:49.199 maybe this helps us understand this fucking weirdo, that she 1138 00:49:49.280 --> 00:49:51.440 was just taking a literal direction from a cult leader. 1139 00:49:51.800 --> 00:49:54.280 I hope it will get her out of politics forever 1140 00:49:54.639 --> 00:49:57.679 and that she will not run for president again apparently, 1141 00:49:57.719 --> 00:50:00.320 Like I think, was it Roger Stone or Steve In 1142 00:50:00.320 --> 00:50:02.800 one of those guys thinks that she could actually run. 1143 00:50:02.840 --> 00:50:05.719 But it's fucking it's crazy. And this person with the 1144 00:50:05.760 --> 00:50:08.519 Director of National Intelligence like sort of speaks to the 1145 00:50:08.599 --> 00:50:10.199 utter failure of vetting. 1146 00:50:10.199 --> 00:50:13.119 For any of these individuals, yeah, or the success of 1147 00:50:13.119 --> 00:50:15.199 the vetting, because it seems like this is who he 1148 00:50:15.239 --> 00:50:18.880 wants to stack his administration with. You got RFKGI conspiracy 1149 00:50:18.920 --> 00:50:21.440 theorist kooks. I mean John Swayne who wrote the story 1150 00:50:21.679 --> 00:50:24.360 he said with this with his Washington Post colleague Aaron Schaeffer, 1151 00:50:24.800 --> 00:50:28.119 I compared Gabbard's remarks in thirty two TV interviews but 1152 00:50:28.199 --> 00:50:31.360 between twenty fourteen and twenty sixteen, with the talking points 1153 00:50:31.400 --> 00:50:36.239 memos intended for them. This is what the cult leader wrote, 1154 00:50:36.280 --> 00:50:38.039 although he didn't sign his name to them, but they're 1155 00:50:38.079 --> 00:50:41.119 all from the same person. On twenty four occasions out 1156 00:50:41.159 --> 00:50:43.679 of the thirty two, Gabbard us language in the memos 1157 00:50:43.760 --> 00:50:47.840 almost verbatim. So this is like her entire congressional career, 1158 00:50:48.159 --> 00:50:51.000 She's just going on TV and saying the war. I mean, 1159 00:50:51.039 --> 00:50:53.440 this is like, this is like a right wing conspiracy, 1160 00:50:53.440 --> 00:50:55.840 but it's real what they think of, like you know, 1161 00:50:55.920 --> 00:50:59.760 like democrats being controlled by global forces. Like here's Tulsi 1162 00:50:59.800 --> 00:51:03.079 Ga just going on TV introducing legislation that this random 1163 00:51:03.159 --> 00:51:04.079 cult leader told her to. 1164 00:51:04.239 --> 00:51:06.159 What's funny too, is they're trying to now say they're like, oh, 1165 00:51:06.199 --> 00:51:08.679 this is just anti anti Hindu bigotry, when I say, 1166 00:51:08.760 --> 00:51:13.159 there's nothing, there's nothing Hindu going on. And and then 1167 00:51:13.519 --> 00:51:15.400 there's the one line that I thought was greatest. There 1168 00:51:15.440 --> 00:51:16.840 was some line that was this was the one said, 1169 00:51:17.039 --> 00:51:19.719 no matter how much you basically to paraphrase it, don't 1170 00:51:19.719 --> 00:51:21.440 worry no matter how much you fuck up tomorrow. 1171 00:51:21.559 --> 00:51:22.000 I love you. 1172 00:51:22.039 --> 00:51:24.199 And Krishna loved you, which I do really appreciate. There 1173 00:51:24.239 --> 00:51:26.000 was one memo that I thought was very funny because 1174 00:51:26.000 --> 00:51:29.280 it was it was very uh. It was about some 1175 00:51:29.320 --> 00:51:31.159 statements she gave a leave after the State of the Union, 1176 00:51:31.239 --> 00:51:33.599 and it was actually had some like very good advice, 1177 00:51:33.639 --> 00:51:35.320 which was something along the lines of like, hey, you 1178 00:51:35.400 --> 00:51:37.719 just gave a generic, boring statement. You sound like a politician. 1179 00:51:37.760 --> 00:51:39.400 If you have nothing to say, don't say anything. But 1180 00:51:39.519 --> 00:51:41.000 you only have something to say if you're prepared. 1181 00:51:41.159 --> 00:51:43.119 Let's this, let's get this guy in a democratic campaign. 1182 00:51:43.320 --> 00:51:45.559 Yeah, you can't do worse. That's worse than a lot 1183 00:51:45.559 --> 00:51:47.400 of the guy. A lot of consultants we've got going by. 1184 00:51:47.440 --> 00:51:49.639 The range of the advice was funny. It was like, 1185 00:51:49.679 --> 00:51:52.639 introduced this exact policy, and then some emails would be 1186 00:51:52.639 --> 00:51:53.920 like stop doing the weird eye thing. 1187 00:51:54.320 --> 00:51:55.960 Yes, then doing it? 1188 00:51:56.000 --> 00:51:56.199 You know what. 1189 00:51:56.320 --> 00:51:57.760 I read that and I was like, she does do 1190 00:51:57.840 --> 00:52:00.599 a weird thing. Yeah, he was something. 1191 00:52:00.440 --> 00:52:01.280 There reminded me. 1192 00:52:01.280 --> 00:52:05.280 There was I remember there was somebody when I was 1193 00:52:05.519 --> 00:52:09.519 working for Hillary at some point uh uh, she went 1194 00:52:09.559 --> 00:52:11.280 to the floor to speak on the Senate floor by 1195 00:52:11.280 --> 00:52:16.400 some issue, and one of the consultants accidentally respond replied, 1196 00:52:16.440 --> 00:52:18.920 all meanting this and send the note to just one person, 1197 00:52:19.280 --> 00:52:21.199 And the email just said something like how could you 1198 00:52:21.280 --> 00:52:24.400 let Hillary go out there looking like shit like that? 1199 00:52:23.960 --> 00:52:25.079 She was on the report. 1200 00:52:25.159 --> 00:52:26.519 No Hillary, but the whole staff was. 1201 00:52:26.519 --> 00:52:26.880 We all know. 1202 00:52:27.280 --> 00:52:28.679 I wasn't. That was early in my days. 1203 00:52:28.679 --> 00:52:30.679 I was not on a small email chain about Hillary 1204 00:52:31.360 --> 00:52:33.119 in the no, no, no, I don't think she was. 1205 00:52:33.159 --> 00:52:34.679 I don't think she was the one person would have 1206 00:52:34.679 --> 00:52:35.320 been vaporized. 1207 00:52:35.400 --> 00:52:38.320 Yeah, just sort of blipped out of existence. 1208 00:52:38.880 --> 00:52:41.000 I mean maybe we all need like a cult leader 1209 00:52:41.000 --> 00:52:42.800 in our lives, given unvarnished feedback. 1210 00:52:42.840 --> 00:52:44.880 You know that is true, for. 1211 00:52:47.079 --> 00:52:49.320 That's the memos come out. 1212 00:52:49.400 --> 00:52:53.760 Yeah, they are. You can subscribe. Speaking of corrupt coons, 1213 00:52:54.039 --> 00:52:57.039 we should talk about the wild and infuriating New York 1214 00:52:57.079 --> 00:52:59.280 Times story that shed's new light on why Trump may 1215 00:52:59.320 --> 00:53:03.440 have freed a convicted fraudster named David Gentile less than 1216 00:53:03.480 --> 00:53:07.239 two weeks into a seven year sentence after Gentile stole 1217 00:53:07.320 --> 00:53:10.599 over a billion dollars from what the Times calls thousands 1218 00:53:10.639 --> 00:53:14.159 of mostly mom and pop investors. The commutation also meant 1219 00:53:14.159 --> 00:53:17.239 Gentile no longer had to pay as much as fifteen 1220 00:53:17.280 --> 00:53:21.360 and a half million dollars in restitution, while apparently, according 1221 00:53:21.360 --> 00:53:23.800 to Ken Vogel at The Times, a couple of Trump's 1222 00:53:23.800 --> 00:53:28.119 political appointees killed an early stage investigation by the office 1223 00:53:28.119 --> 00:53:32.159 that prosecuted Gentile into how the clemency came about, including quote, 1224 00:53:32.480 --> 00:53:37.000 jailhouse communications where he discussed making over two million dollars 1225 00:53:37.039 --> 00:53:40.400 worth of payments to secure his freedom. The Times reported 1226 00:53:40.400 --> 00:53:42.480 that one of the people who communicated with Gentile in 1227 00:53:42.480 --> 00:53:46.440 prison and quote came under scrutiny by investigators was Reverend 1228 00:53:46.440 --> 00:53:50.440 Frank Mann, a retired Catholic priest from Queen's whose friends 1229 00:53:50.440 --> 00:53:55.039 with Trump and spoke at his inauguration last year. Wild 1230 00:53:55.599 --> 00:53:57.000 What do you think is this the kind of thing 1231 00:53:57.000 --> 00:53:59.760 democrats should investigate if they take Congress or does this 1232 00:53:59.800 --> 00:54:02.079 fall into the category of things we can't really do 1233 00:54:02.159 --> 00:54:04.800 much about because the pardon power is absolute. 1234 00:54:05.559 --> 00:54:08.280 Oh, we've got to This is some of the most 1235 00:54:08.320 --> 00:54:12.960 brazen corruption of the administration. And by the way, like again, 1236 00:54:13.039 --> 00:54:14.239 a lot of there's going to be a lot of 1237 00:54:14.239 --> 00:54:16.079 people that say we shouldn't be looking backwards. But one 1238 00:54:16.119 --> 00:54:17.440 of the reasons we're gonna have to look backwards is 1239 00:54:17.480 --> 00:54:18.960 that we understand what we need to do to fix it. 1240 00:54:19.000 --> 00:54:22.400 And I like pardon reform, some kind of constitutional amendment 1241 00:54:22.559 --> 00:54:23.920 is going to be on the table for how to 1242 00:54:24.519 --> 00:54:26.679 protect our democracy. So I think we absolutely should be 1243 00:54:26.760 --> 00:54:31.360 investigating this. One other reason to do it is there 1244 00:54:31.400 --> 00:54:33.360 is daylight here between Trump and some of the people 1245 00:54:33.360 --> 00:54:35.440 around Trump. Like if you notice the Caroline Levitt statement 1246 00:54:35.440 --> 00:54:37.840 in that article says something like the idea that people 1247 00:54:37.880 --> 00:54:39.840 would be trying to profit off of clemency is like 1248 00:54:39.840 --> 00:54:41.000 repugnant or something to that. 1249 00:54:40.960 --> 00:54:42.760 Effect, and at least cut Trump in. 1250 00:54:42.960 --> 00:54:45.480 Yeah, yeah, let the man get his beak wet, all right. 1251 00:54:45.639 --> 00:54:47.280 He's got a lot of it's got a lot of renovation. 1252 00:54:47.639 --> 00:54:49.079 He's got to do a lot of interior decorator, He's 1253 00:54:49.079 --> 00:54:50.719 got a lot of expenses, a lot of renovation projects. 1254 00:54:50.760 --> 00:54:54.119 But so there's also apparently in this story, according to 1255 00:54:54.119 --> 00:54:58.239 the story, after the reports that this retired priest had 1256 00:54:58.239 --> 00:55:01.119 taken cash, Trump called is true because cuarly, Trump, on 1257 00:55:01.159 --> 00:55:06.079 his word, had commuted this guy's sentence. And there's one 1258 00:55:06.079 --> 00:55:09.079 point in the story where it seems as though this 1259 00:55:09.400 --> 00:55:12.880 former priest accidentally but dialed the reporter and left a 1260 00:55:12.880 --> 00:55:15.639 message while he was talking about meeting with Trump and 1261 00:55:15.679 --> 00:55:17.639 having lunch with him. So I do think we should 1262 00:55:17.639 --> 00:55:20.840 be investigating this. I do think there's just an incredible 1263 00:55:20.880 --> 00:55:24.440 amount of corruption going on around Trump around related to 1264 00:55:24.480 --> 00:55:25.599 these pardons and commutations. 1265 00:55:25.639 --> 00:55:27.880 When you love to hear the conversation between Trump and 1266 00:55:27.920 --> 00:55:30.440 the priest when he asked him if it was hi, yeah, yeah, 1267 00:55:30.480 --> 00:55:32.360 if he took any money, I loved it. 1268 00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:34.800 I mean, Trump is immune from prosecution around the pardons, 1269 00:55:34.840 --> 00:55:37.400 but the people selling pardons are not, so we should 1270 00:55:37.400 --> 00:55:39.800 absolutely investigate the hell out of it and see if 1271 00:55:39.800 --> 00:55:41.400 we can bring some of them to justice. And also, 1272 00:55:41.639 --> 00:55:43.639 I think stories like this where you've got this corrupt 1273 00:55:43.679 --> 00:55:46.519 guy who what defrauded one point six billion dollars worth 1274 00:55:46.920 --> 00:55:49.360 of money from mom and pop investors is how it's 1275 00:55:49.360 --> 00:55:53.440 described Like this directly connects the corruption to how it's 1276 00:55:53.519 --> 00:55:55.719 hurting you. This is like kind of the exact sweet 1277 00:55:55.760 --> 00:55:59.239 spot of the messaging. And again, good my facts. When 1278 00:55:59.280 --> 00:56:00.960 I read this, first thought was like, oh, this is 1279 00:56:00.960 --> 00:56:03.280 going to end up in a John Austin absolutely probably 1280 00:56:03.440 --> 00:56:05.639 was already there like a video. Yeah, and then you 1281 00:56:05.639 --> 00:56:09.320 know you heard this, you read this one, you read 1282 00:56:09.360 --> 00:56:11.360 about this, and then you know again to talk to 1283 00:56:11.440 --> 00:56:13.639 Maggie and Jonathan about this, but just all the examples 1284 00:56:13.639 --> 00:56:16.079 of corruption, and Jonathan's. 1285 00:56:15.599 --> 00:56:17.559 One was like they're. 1286 00:56:17.079 --> 00:56:19.360 Very serious journalists, right, Like I'm trying to fuck around 1287 00:56:19.360 --> 00:56:21.079 and they're just being you know, telling me just the. 1288 00:56:21.000 --> 00:56:21.800 Facts of the reporting. 1289 00:56:22.119 --> 00:56:24.039 And Swan like looks into the camera and he's like, 1290 00:56:24.159 --> 00:56:27.800 I think we know about one percent of the corruption 1291 00:56:27.960 --> 00:56:32.159 stories of that's actually happening here. So just the avenue 1292 00:56:32.199 --> 00:56:36.559 is for investigative reporting, lawsuits, congressional oversight. Like, there's a 1293 00:56:36.599 --> 00:56:39.000 million stories like this that we do not know that 1294 00:56:39.039 --> 00:56:40.559 we are going to have to try to find out. 1295 00:56:40.599 --> 00:56:43.000 And that's the only way I think that the Naga 1296 00:56:43.000 --> 00:56:45.440 cult will ever realize that this man was taking advantage 1297 00:56:45.480 --> 00:56:46.920 of them and harming them. 1298 00:56:47.159 --> 00:56:49.280 By the way, doesn't take a leap of faith to 1299 00:56:49.320 --> 00:56:52.760 believe these stories, like, oh, you think that a bunch 1300 00:56:52.800 --> 00:56:56.320 of criminals, people who were convicted of crimes, including the 1301 00:56:56.320 --> 00:57:00.360 President and this and this guy that he's setting commuted, 1302 00:57:00.519 --> 00:57:02.840 You don't think that he was selling. He was in 1303 00:57:02.920 --> 00:57:04.840 jail and thinking to himself, how do I get out? Well, 1304 00:57:04.880 --> 00:57:06.639 I gotta have Donald Trump do it. Who can get 1305 00:57:06.679 --> 00:57:08.679 to Donald Trump? Well, someone that maybe I can pay, 1306 00:57:08.800 --> 00:57:11.559 Maybe this friend who's the Catholic priest whatever, and the 1307 00:57:11.880 --> 00:57:14.599 retired Catholic priest who just happens to be Donald Trump's buddy. 1308 00:57:15.760 --> 00:57:18.280 Of course this happened, what are you talking about? 1309 00:57:18.440 --> 00:57:20.519 And by the way, the story inside of this, like 1310 00:57:20.840 --> 00:57:24.119 the retired priest cleaned up the gravesite of Trump's parents 1311 00:57:24.199 --> 00:57:26.199 then sent the picture and that's what gets him invited. 1312 00:57:26.480 --> 00:57:29.159 The whole thing reeks the whole thing just it's this, like, 1313 00:57:29.440 --> 00:57:30.199 what are we talking about? 1314 00:57:30.199 --> 00:57:33.519 It is the culture that Donald Trump created when he 1315 00:57:33.599 --> 00:57:35.440 got to the White House and basically was like, Oh, 1316 00:57:35.920 --> 00:57:38.239 I'm going to just pardon anyone who I want to pardon, 1317 00:57:38.679 --> 00:57:40.920 and doesn't matter what kind of crime you committed. January 1318 00:57:40.960 --> 00:57:44.639 sixth rioters, people who've defrauded people, whatever. He be like, 1319 00:57:44.800 --> 00:57:46.639 if you can curry favor with me, and you know 1320 00:57:46.760 --> 00:57:48.360 me and you're connected to me, you get a pardon. 1321 00:57:48.480 --> 00:57:51.239 So of course an entire industry is going to spring 1322 00:57:51.360 --> 00:57:55.000 up of people who sell access to Donald Trump for pardons. 1323 00:57:54.719 --> 00:57:57.360 Cause that's why wouldn't you if your course, you're in jail, 1324 00:57:57.440 --> 00:57:59.679 you know you're being in jail for ten years, and 1325 00:57:59.760 --> 00:58:01.840 then all of a sudden, this glimmer of hope opens 1326 00:58:01.840 --> 00:58:05.119 that if you get this money to some schmuck around Trump, 1327 00:58:05.239 --> 00:58:07.920 some lobbyist or consultant around Trump, that that that you 1328 00:58:07.960 --> 00:58:10.199 could potentially get out, He'll you'll walk away. 1329 00:58:10.280 --> 00:58:15.280 It literally was just I'm gonna say, Sam bankerfree is 1330 00:58:15.320 --> 00:58:18.280 like openly lobbying Trump for a pardon Tomorrow. 1331 00:58:18.039 --> 00:58:20.119 Is gonna be like I saw the guy who used 1332 00:58:20.119 --> 00:58:21.360 the box cutter on the pool. 1333 00:58:21.599 --> 00:58:24.239 I will bribe you, sir. But also when the president, 1334 00:58:24.239 --> 00:58:26.960 when the president United States takes a plane from the 1335 00:58:27.039 --> 00:58:31.880 Katari government or sells half another signal crypto company and 1336 00:58:31.960 --> 00:58:36.039 a secret deal to an Emoradi backed investment firm, everyone 1337 00:58:36.159 --> 00:58:39.800 around him sees that, and that you know, approach to 1338 00:58:39.880 --> 00:58:42.800 governing filters through everyone else and they're all thinking, how 1339 00:58:42.840 --> 00:58:43.599 do I get mine? 1340 00:58:43.719 --> 00:58:43.880 Yeah. 1341 00:58:43.880 --> 00:58:45.639 I also will say too that you know, there's a 1342 00:58:45.639 --> 00:58:48.000 I think there's sort of this sort of like fatigue 1343 00:58:48.039 --> 00:58:50.400 and you're like, wow, any one of these scandals would 1344 00:58:50.400 --> 00:58:53.199 have defined a previous administration. But like Trump, we get 1345 00:58:53.280 --> 00:58:56.119 we sort of get glamored by the ways in which 1346 00:58:56.119 --> 00:58:58.360 there's always a new scandal and a new controversy. But 1347 00:58:58.599 --> 00:59:01.639 this is also this is Republicans in Congress because if 1348 00:59:03.119 --> 00:59:04.880 the reason it got to this point, the reason we 1349 00:59:04.960 --> 00:59:07.599 have this level of corruption, is because there have been 1350 00:59:07.639 --> 00:59:11.639 multiple scandals which if they had marched to the podium 1351 00:59:11.679 --> 00:59:13.800 and say this stops today, it could have stopped, and 1352 00:59:13.880 --> 00:59:14.639 they chose not to. 1353 00:59:14.960 --> 00:59:16.079 They are responsible for this. 1354 00:59:16.519 --> 00:59:18.599 They are the ones that are enabling this every day. Yeah. 1355 00:59:18.760 --> 00:59:21.639 The corrective for this in the Constitution is of course impeachment. 1356 00:59:22.320 --> 00:59:24.920 And you know there's obviously going to be a question 1357 00:59:24.960 --> 00:59:27.159 if Democrats take Congress back to impeae Trump, because it's 1358 00:59:27.159 --> 00:59:29.400 obviously not going to go anywhere. There's part of me 1359 00:59:29.480 --> 00:59:31.599 that thinks, like you just do it as a matter 1360 00:59:31.639 --> 00:59:35.119 of fact, like, hey, look at all this corruption. If 1361 00:59:35.199 --> 00:59:37.639 Republicans actually voted to convict part of what we want 1362 00:59:37.639 --> 00:59:39.199 to do is get some of this money back for 1363 00:59:39.280 --> 00:59:42.320 the American people that he stole from the American treasury 1364 00:59:42.360 --> 00:59:44.719 and from the American people. We don't expect Republicans to 1365 00:59:44.760 --> 00:59:46.320 actually vote for this, but we want to go on 1366 00:59:46.400 --> 00:59:49.119 record and realize that, like this is the president committed 1367 00:59:49.119 --> 00:59:50.719 a bunch of crimes, stole a bunch of money from people, 1368 00:59:51.039 --> 00:59:52.159 Like you have to make a big deal of it. 1369 00:59:52.199 --> 00:59:53.960 I don't know. I'm still thinking about it, like I don't. 1370 00:59:54.320 --> 00:59:55.679 It is hard to go to that path because it 1371 00:59:55.679 --> 00:59:58.840 takes up a lot of oxygen. But again, when someone 1372 00:59:58.920 --> 01:00:00.519 when a president does kind of this kind of thing, 1373 01:00:00.519 --> 01:00:02.840 when he abuses the pardon power, when he's this corupt 1374 01:00:02.840 --> 01:00:05.159 when he's stealing from the American people, the remedy in 1375 01:00:05.199 --> 01:00:07.280 the Constitution is to impeach the guy. And if you 1376 01:00:07.360 --> 01:00:08.639 don't do that, then you know. 1377 01:00:09.239 --> 01:00:12.239 Yeah, and by the way, both impeachments were vehicles to 1378 01:00:12.920 --> 01:00:13.719 educate the country. 1379 01:00:14.119 --> 01:00:15.360 We learned a lot in those. 1380 01:00:15.280 --> 01:00:16.880 Case those why did it work? 1381 01:00:17.119 --> 01:00:17.280 Well? 1382 01:00:17.639 --> 01:00:19.960 Well, the hearing you know, the yeah, and then even 1383 01:00:19.960 --> 01:00:23.159 the January sixth hearings that came later I think were 1384 01:00:23.199 --> 01:00:26.960 really important. No, they did not work, because here we are. 1385 01:00:27.079 --> 01:00:29.639 But I do think like at a certain point, yes, 1386 01:00:30.039 --> 01:00:32.079 there will be strategic argument against that. I get that, 1387 01:00:32.239 --> 01:00:34.360 but like, man, have we done a lot of overthinking 1388 01:00:34.400 --> 01:00:35.960 about strategy to end up in this place too? 1389 01:00:36.159 --> 01:00:38.199 Yeah? All right, now, you guys get to hear when 1390 01:00:38.239 --> 01:00:41.079 we come back more about all of Trump's machinations in 1391 01:00:41.159 --> 01:00:43.480 the second term. When Tommy talks to Maggie Haberman and 1392 01:00:43.559 --> 01:00:54.480 Jonathan Swan right after this Potsive America is brought to 1393 01:00:54.559 --> 01:00:58.639 you by cook Unity. I love cook Unity And I 1394 01:00:58.760 --> 01:01:00.119 just had a meal last night. What did I have 1395 01:01:00.280 --> 01:01:05.599 last night? I had the Thaie beef curry. It was 1396 01:01:05.719 --> 01:01:08.800 with rice. And who knows what I'm going to have tonight. 1397 01:01:09.639 --> 01:01:12.679 Maybe it's like a good chicken dish they gave me. Anyway, 1398 01:01:12.719 --> 01:01:15.199 I've used Coomunity for years, long before they were ever 1399 01:01:15.239 --> 01:01:17.760 a sponsor. It's great. It's the first chef led meal 1400 01:01:17.800 --> 01:01:20.280 delivery service that makes your meals and small batches inside 1401 01:01:20.320 --> 01:01:23.840 local micro kitchens across the US, not factories, so every 1402 01:01:23.880 --> 01:01:25.880 dish arrives with the kind of freshness you'd get at 1403 01:01:25.880 --> 01:01:29.360 the restaurant itself. Meals from Michelin starred chefs, James Beard 1404 01:01:29.400 --> 01:01:32.880 winners and Food Network stars. Go to cookmunity dot com 1405 01:01:33.079 --> 01:01:36.239 slash crooked or use code crooked before checkout for fifty 1406 01:01:36.239 --> 01:01:39.480 percent off your first week. 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Go to cookunity dot com 1417 01:02:06.599 --> 01:02:08.960 slash cricket or into code cricket before check out to 1418 01:02:09.039 --> 01:02:11.519 get fifty percent off your first order. That's fifty percent 1419 01:02:11.559 --> 01:02:13.679 off your first order by using code Cricket or going 1420 01:02:13.760 --> 01:02:16.039 to cookunity dot com slash crookeet. 1421 01:02:21.360 --> 01:02:24.000 Today, I am thrilled to be joined by the authors 1422 01:02:24.159 --> 01:02:27.960 of the new book Regime Change Inside the Imperial Presidency 1423 01:02:28.480 --> 01:02:31.760 of Donald Trump. Maggie hereman Jonathan Swan. Great to see 1424 01:02:31.800 --> 01:02:35.440 you both, Thanks for having us, Thank you for doing this. 1425 01:02:35.599 --> 01:02:38.280 So first of all, congrats on the book and forgetting 1426 01:02:38.280 --> 01:02:41.480 this thing into the world. I know a staggering amount 1427 01:02:41.519 --> 01:02:43.199 of work went into this book. I think you wrote 1428 01:02:43.239 --> 01:02:47.440 you have over a thousand interviews. That is remarkable, and 1429 01:02:47.559 --> 01:02:51.880 the result is just this incredible page turner that provides 1430 01:02:51.920 --> 01:02:54.480 a level of insight into how Donald Trump operates and 1431 01:02:54.519 --> 01:02:57.719 how this administration works that I just haven't found everywhere else. 1432 01:02:57.760 --> 01:03:00.559 And I'm a I'm a total sicko, and I follow 1433 01:03:00.599 --> 01:03:02.159 this for a living, and I follow these people for 1434 01:03:02.199 --> 01:03:03.599 a living, and I was learning a lot. And I 1435 01:03:03.679 --> 01:03:06.239 know you both are sickos who follow every move of 1436 01:03:06.320 --> 01:03:08.760 this president. Maggie, I know you have the good fortune 1437 01:03:08.760 --> 01:03:11.360 of getting to know him back in New York a 1438 01:03:11.440 --> 01:03:13.840 long time ago, so you guys know the subject as 1439 01:03:13.880 --> 01:03:16.440 well as anyone. So my first question is just a 1440 01:03:16.559 --> 01:03:19.480 general one, which is, for both of you, what's the 1441 01:03:19.599 --> 01:03:21.719 top line takeaway for you in terms of what do 1442 01:03:21.760 --> 01:03:23.960 you think is changed from Trump one point zero to 1443 01:03:24.039 --> 01:03:25.840 Trump two point zero? And then after that, I was 1444 01:03:25.880 --> 01:03:27.800 hoping you both could just sort of tell us about 1445 01:03:27.800 --> 01:03:31.280 the experience of bringing this reporting to Donald Trump and 1446 01:03:31.360 --> 01:03:33.079 having to interview him about it. 1447 01:03:33.440 --> 01:03:34.519 Why don't we start with you, Maggie. 1448 01:03:34.920 --> 01:03:35.159 Sure. 1449 01:03:35.639 --> 01:03:35.679 So. 1450 01:03:35.920 --> 01:03:38.239 One of the things that we tried to convey in 1451 01:03:38.320 --> 01:03:40.559 this book, and I think we did, Tommy, is that 1452 01:03:40.679 --> 01:03:44.719 this is just a fundamentally different term than Trump won. 1453 01:03:44.840 --> 01:03:47.840 This is a very different presidency. This is not twenty 1454 01:03:47.920 --> 01:03:51.960 seventeen anymore. This is not people who this president had 1455 01:03:52.000 --> 01:03:54.920 never met before, serving not just throughout this administration but 1456 01:03:55.000 --> 01:03:56.719 in his White House. This is a group of people 1457 01:03:57.000 --> 01:04:00.239 who are deeply aligned with him, who had spent many, 1458 01:04:00.280 --> 01:04:02.400 many years thinking of some of them, not all of them, 1459 01:04:02.440 --> 01:04:05.440 but thinking about how they could use the levers of 1460 01:04:05.519 --> 01:04:09.000 power for a specific agenda. Trump himself has been thinking 1461 01:04:09.079 --> 01:04:12.760 about various aspects of this presidency, one of which he's 1462 01:04:12.800 --> 01:04:15.719 been very open about, which is retribution. And you are 1463 01:04:15.840 --> 01:04:21.119 seeing a president wheeled power in a way that is 1464 01:04:21.239 --> 01:04:25.119 fundamentally changing the way people look at America around the 1465 01:04:25.199 --> 01:04:31.000 globe the way Americans interact with their president, and certainly 1466 01:04:31.079 --> 01:04:33.000 not in our lifetime that we've seen this. I'm not 1467 01:04:33.239 --> 01:04:36.199 sure there has been something like this. And we tried 1468 01:04:36.239 --> 01:04:42.079 to show additionally to his unique qualities, never admitting defeat, 1469 01:04:43.039 --> 01:04:45.519 never having any shame, refusing to be thrown out of 1470 01:04:45.559 --> 01:04:48.920 the arena, the various factors outside of his control that 1471 01:04:49.039 --> 01:04:51.360 added to that. But he is coming back to what 1472 01:04:51.639 --> 01:04:55.599 had came back to Washington with a very, very different climate. 1473 01:04:55.719 --> 01:05:03.360 It was a completely cowed Republican Congress, tech leaders, count donors, 1474 01:05:04.559 --> 01:05:08.320 law firms who were facing threats of executive orders, media 1475 01:05:08.440 --> 01:05:11.079 companies that were concerned about being targeted by the government. 1476 01:05:12.119 --> 01:05:15.119 And he has very happily wielded that power. 1477 01:05:15.559 --> 01:05:20.960 I agree with everything Maggie said. It's really hard to 1478 01:05:23.159 --> 01:05:26.599 emphasize sufficiently how different this is from term one. It's 1479 01:05:26.599 --> 01:05:30.639 almost unrecognizable in the way he's operating as president. And 1480 01:05:30.719 --> 01:05:33.440 I'll just give you one kind of other way to 1481 01:05:33.519 --> 01:05:37.000 think about it, which is in term one, he was 1482 01:05:37.280 --> 01:05:41.920 quite reactive to domestic politics. He you know, the polls 1483 01:05:41.960 --> 01:05:44.440 were down. He will be reactive to that stock market. 1484 01:05:44.719 --> 01:05:48.519 You know, what's it doing? Today, What did he last 1485 01:05:48.559 --> 01:05:51.400 see on TV? And I still think that's a lens 1486 01:05:51.400 --> 01:05:53.760 through which people are viewing him this term. I still 1487 01:05:53.760 --> 01:05:55.559 see a lot of kind of commentary that kind of 1488 01:05:55.679 --> 01:05:59.239 analyzes him through that term. Look, it's not binaries or 1489 01:05:59.280 --> 01:06:01.559 black and white. It's not to say he doesn't care 1490 01:06:01.599 --> 01:06:03.280 at all about those things in the mid terms, but 1491 01:06:03.360 --> 01:06:08.519 he cares far less Donald Trump this term. We picked 1492 01:06:08.559 --> 01:06:10.679 this up pretty early in our reporting, and it became 1493 01:06:10.960 --> 01:06:14.559 very evident when we sat down finally across from him. 1494 01:06:15.400 --> 01:06:20.679 He views himself and is trying to create this for 1495 01:06:20.840 --> 01:06:25.679 himself as a capital g great man of history, as 1496 01:06:25.880 --> 01:06:30.679 a sort of Napoleonic figure. And he literally handed us 1497 01:06:30.760 --> 01:06:33.119 this two page document when we were there with him 1498 01:06:33.119 --> 01:06:35.719 in the Oval office, which he said was written by 1499 01:06:35.719 --> 01:06:39.039 a historian, and it compared him to what he described 1500 01:06:39.039 --> 01:06:44.280 as the quote unquote top ten, Mao, Stalin Hitler, Alexander, 1501 01:06:44.360 --> 01:06:49.079 the Great, Genghis Khan, Attila, the Hun, William the Conqueror, 1502 01:06:50.079 --> 01:06:55.880 the Tamalay, the Caesars, the Caesars So and you know, 1503 01:06:56.480 --> 01:06:59.920 I'm not sure that most American presidents would be happy 1504 01:07:00.079 --> 01:07:03.920 about being included in that company. He was relishing this comparison. 1505 01:07:04.000 --> 01:07:06.239 It wasn't a moral comparison. There was actually very almost 1506 01:07:06.280 --> 01:07:09.360 no mention of morality or values in this document. It 1507 01:07:09.480 --> 01:07:13.159 was purely comparing them on the metric of power. And 1508 01:07:13.440 --> 01:07:18.119 the assertion that this quote unquote historian made was that 1509 01:07:18.239 --> 01:07:20.760 Donald Trump is the most powerful man who's ever existed 1510 01:07:20.840 --> 01:07:24.519 on the planet because he's in charge of the United States, 1511 01:07:24.599 --> 01:07:27.000 the most powerful military it's ever existed, the most powerful 1512 01:07:27.079 --> 01:07:29.880 technology that's ever existed, but that he's also that he's 1513 01:07:29.920 --> 01:07:34.519 willing to use that power. And you know, as peculiar 1514 01:07:34.559 --> 01:07:37.199 as the source of this information was, it actually turned 1515 01:07:37.199 --> 01:07:40.000 out not to be a historian. It was Gary Player, 1516 01:07:40.159 --> 01:07:44.760 the golfer's for for Mechadic. But setting that aside, the 1517 01:07:44.880 --> 01:07:48.360 thesis actually was not so dissimilar to the reporting that 1518 01:07:48.440 --> 01:07:51.519 we had been doing, which is, this is a president 1519 01:07:51.639 --> 01:07:55.800 now who is willing to take enormous risks, enormous risks 1520 01:07:55.840 --> 01:07:59.639 on the global stage, whether it be going in and 1521 01:07:59.719 --> 01:08:02.400 snaw a sovereign head of state out of his bedroom 1522 01:08:02.440 --> 01:08:05.639 in his pajamas without even talking to Congress, whether it 1523 01:08:05.719 --> 01:08:08.320 be starting a new war in the Middle East without 1524 01:08:08.320 --> 01:08:11.679 even talking to Congress, starting a trade war against the 1525 01:08:11.760 --> 01:08:15.760 whole world, which he did last April. He wants to 1526 01:08:15.960 --> 01:08:19.319 put his imprint on the world and this country and 1527 01:08:19.399 --> 01:08:23.159 build monuments to himself. And he's far less concerned about 1528 01:08:23.600 --> 01:08:27.560 whatever the latest polls are, or the midterm elections or 1529 01:08:27.640 --> 01:08:31.119 the future of the Republican Party than he is making 1530 01:08:31.199 --> 01:08:33.720 Donald Trump a capital g great man of history. 1531 01:08:34.119 --> 01:08:38.840 Wow, Gary Players, Caddie, what a okay, hot start, guys, 1532 01:08:38.920 --> 01:08:41.800 this is That's an amazing anecdote. Okay, So there's so 1533 01:08:41.880 --> 01:08:44.640 much I would ask you about. I personally think for me, 1534 01:08:44.800 --> 01:08:46.880 the corruption has been the most shocking part of the 1535 01:08:46.880 --> 01:08:49.439 second term. We could go to the list. There's the 1536 01:08:49.479 --> 01:08:52.239 stock trades. There's the people trading on the Maduro operation 1537 01:08:52.359 --> 01:08:55.239 on Kelshi. There's the secret half a billion dollar sale 1538 01:08:55.680 --> 01:08:58.760 of the crypto business to the Amorati backed firm. There's 1539 01:08:58.840 --> 01:09:01.359 the pardons. There's the jet. The list literally goes on 1540 01:09:01.439 --> 01:09:02.880 and on. But I want to focus on the jet 1541 01:09:02.880 --> 01:09:05.000 for a minute because you report in the book that 1542 01:09:05.199 --> 01:09:08.520 Katar initially wanted to be paid between one hundred and 1543 01:09:08.560 --> 01:09:10.560 fifty to two hundred million dollars for the plane, but 1544 01:09:10.600 --> 01:09:12.800 then suddenly the plane was a gift, and you said, 1545 01:09:12.840 --> 01:09:15.079 the idea for making it a gift was quote generated 1546 01:09:15.119 --> 01:09:17.239 at the potus level. And I was wondering if you 1547 01:09:17.279 --> 01:09:19.119 could unpack what that means a little bit, and then 1548 01:09:19.239 --> 01:09:22.159 just your sense of Trump's general mindset about using his 1549 01:09:22.239 --> 01:09:24.359 office to make money and how that mindset has sort 1550 01:09:24.359 --> 01:09:27.479 of extended or not to his family, his staff and 1551 01:09:27.520 --> 01:09:28.359 the people around him. 1552 01:09:28.600 --> 01:09:31.039 Is so working backwards on that one, Tommy on the 1553 01:09:31.119 --> 01:09:35.039 Katari jet, and that was really the first Neon sign 1554 01:09:35.279 --> 01:09:39.159 example of what we saw with this president. Outside of 1555 01:09:39.199 --> 01:09:42.560 the crypto business which came into existence in twenty twenty 1556 01:09:42.600 --> 01:09:45.840 four during the campaign, that alone was a norm that 1557 01:09:46.600 --> 01:09:49.960 was completely shattered. We've not seen a president do something 1558 01:09:50.039 --> 01:09:53.439 like that before. It speaks to a mindset that is 1559 01:09:53.520 --> 01:09:56.039 across this government. It is certainly clear for this president, 1560 01:09:56.399 --> 01:09:58.239 and it is clear for members of his family that 1561 01:09:59.159 --> 01:10:01.560 they feel like they gave up a lot. I mean 1562 01:10:01.560 --> 01:10:04.640 they openly say this, we gave up a lot because 1563 01:10:04.920 --> 01:10:08.479 the Trump ran, we were under investigation. We lost lots 1564 01:10:08.479 --> 01:10:12.159 of money, We lost you know, golf tournaments at our 1565 01:10:12.199 --> 01:10:15.720 clubs and so forth. And there's no laws prohibiting this, 1566 01:10:15.920 --> 01:10:18.720 and there's nothing that stops this. And Trump openly said 1567 01:10:18.720 --> 01:10:20.720 this to some of our colleagues earlier this year actually, 1568 01:10:21.439 --> 01:10:23.399 and he also said, you know, nobody cared that he 1569 01:10:23.600 --> 01:10:27.600 was trying to adhere to some guidelines. There were people 1570 01:10:27.640 --> 01:10:31.680 who cared. It just didn't violate laws, and presidents or 1571 01:10:31.720 --> 01:10:35.319 exempt as most people know from ethics laws in a 1572 01:10:35.319 --> 01:10:42.399 different way. So this jet was initially described by we 1573 01:10:42.680 --> 01:10:44.279 actually I think we're the first people to write about 1574 01:10:44.279 --> 01:10:46.880 the fact that they were thinking about this jet. Suddenly 1575 01:10:46.920 --> 01:10:50.359 there was this memo, this joint memo from the DOJ 1576 01:10:51.039 --> 01:10:53.079 and the White House Council, and it was that there 1577 01:10:53.159 --> 01:10:55.359 was nothing that was going to prohibit the government from 1578 01:10:55.399 --> 01:10:58.199 accepting this jet and then it being transferred over to 1579 01:10:58.279 --> 01:11:01.359 the Trump Library. It is true there have been times 1580 01:11:01.399 --> 01:11:05.039 in history of this country when the Defense Department has 1581 01:11:05.079 --> 01:11:08.199 accepted gifts right in the forms of plane or aircraft 1582 01:11:08.279 --> 01:11:12.119 or whatever, not usually quite like this. And yes, this 1583 01:11:12.359 --> 01:11:16.960 was an older jet that the Katari royal family had used. 1584 01:11:17.039 --> 01:11:20.960 It was not brand new. They, according to our reporting, 1585 01:11:21.000 --> 01:11:24.239 did initially want to sell it, and then it suddenly 1586 01:11:24.319 --> 01:11:27.079 became a gift and generated at the post level. In 1587 01:11:27.119 --> 01:11:30.439 our understanding was it was conversations that people close to 1588 01:11:30.520 --> 01:11:35.000 the president were having with counterparts elsewhere as to how 1589 01:11:35.079 --> 01:11:37.479 to acquire this. I think there is still a lot 1590 01:11:37.520 --> 01:11:39.520 to be learned about how it happened. But remember the 1591 01:11:39.560 --> 01:11:42.960 President described this as a free jet, that this would 1592 01:11:43.000 --> 01:11:44.640 no tax payer money would go to it. In fact, 1593 01:11:44.720 --> 01:11:47.520 it has cost several hundreds and millions of dollars in 1594 01:11:47.640 --> 01:11:50.920 taxpayer upgrades to make it safe for President's It's just 1595 01:11:51.039 --> 01:11:55.279 got delivered in recent days. So that was one example 1596 01:11:55.359 --> 01:11:57.000 that made clear that we were just in a very, 1597 01:11:57.079 --> 01:12:00.199 very different world. It took months of reporting by the 1598 01:12:00.199 --> 01:12:03.640 Wall Street Journal to uncover that secret sale of a 1599 01:12:03.840 --> 01:12:07.159 forty nine percent stake in the Trump crypto company that 1600 01:12:07.239 --> 01:12:11.279 they have with the Whitcoff family too. I think it 1601 01:12:11.399 --> 01:12:15.720 was an emiati Royal backed company, Royal family backed company. 1602 01:12:15.920 --> 01:12:19.159 There are other deals that the Trump family is engaged in, 1603 01:12:19.239 --> 01:12:22.720 and again the posture has been nothing prohibits this, We're 1604 01:12:22.720 --> 01:12:27.439 allowed to It's so latent and on a scale we 1605 01:12:27.560 --> 01:12:30.319 have just never seen before. There have obviously been accusations 1606 01:12:30.399 --> 01:12:34.000 of self dealing from presidents in the past, this is 1607 01:12:34.119 --> 01:12:37.960 unlike anything that I can recall seeing and really being 1608 01:12:38.000 --> 01:12:42.359 written about in modern history at any rate. And I 1609 01:12:42.479 --> 01:12:44.439 do think that the public is starting to pick up 1610 01:12:44.479 --> 01:12:48.279 on it that is puncturing something that he had been 1611 01:12:48.319 --> 01:12:50.239 able to hang on to for a long time, which 1612 01:12:50.359 --> 01:12:53.920 was the sense that he is a successful businessman. He 1613 01:12:54.000 --> 01:12:58.319 didn't gain anything from this. There is a recurring theme 1614 01:12:58.640 --> 01:13:00.439 and it's hard to ignore. 1615 01:13:00.760 --> 01:13:02.880 Yeah, and Jonathan, I mean staying on this corruption piece. 1616 01:13:03.479 --> 01:13:05.640 We've heard about the ballroom, We've heard about the arc 1617 01:13:05.720 --> 01:13:09.279 to Trump, the pack fundraising. You guys do a bunch 1618 01:13:09.279 --> 01:13:13.039 of reporting on the Trump Presidential Library Fund. You in fact, 1619 01:13:13.079 --> 01:13:16.680 you report that Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnik personally donated twenty 1620 01:13:16.760 --> 01:13:20.039 five million dollars to the Trump Presidential Library Fund, and 1621 01:13:20.119 --> 01:13:24.079 that this donation came after reports about Lutnix kids maybe 1622 01:13:24.119 --> 01:13:27.000 making money off of administration policy in a way that 1623 01:13:27.199 --> 01:13:29.479 was deemed unsavory in the press. I'd love to hear 1624 01:13:29.560 --> 01:13:31.319 more about that. And then also, can you talk about 1625 01:13:31.760 --> 01:13:33.680 you know, it sounds like Eric Trump is leading a 1626 01:13:33.800 --> 01:13:37.640 very aggressive effort to raise money that includes individuals like 1627 01:13:37.680 --> 01:13:41.359 Mohamma bin Salman, the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, sovereign 1628 01:13:41.439 --> 01:13:44.760 wealth funds in the Gulf, just sort of blatant conflicts 1629 01:13:44.760 --> 01:13:45.119 of interest. 1630 01:13:45.319 --> 01:13:46.319 I'd love to hear more about it. 1631 01:13:46.520 --> 01:13:49.079 People around Trump have described to us that they want 1632 01:13:49.119 --> 01:13:51.960 to raise two billion dollars for his presidential library. And 1633 01:13:52.079 --> 01:13:57.239 if you've seen it, it's essentially a tower that looks 1634 01:13:57.279 --> 01:13:59.880 like the Freedom Tower that sort of tow is a 1635 01:14:00.079 --> 01:14:02.640 of the Miami skyline. It in no way is it 1636 01:14:02.720 --> 01:14:05.680 a presidential library. And you've seen like the montage if 1637 01:14:05.720 --> 01:14:07.359 you go in there and there's like as you it's 1638 01:14:07.439 --> 01:14:11.319 like a gold statue of Donald Trump and restaurants and 1639 01:14:11.760 --> 01:14:15.600 god knows what else. So the reason we found about 1640 01:14:15.720 --> 01:14:20.680 the Howard Lutnik example is in the Oval office, Trump 1641 01:14:21.119 --> 01:14:23.960 brings it up that there was something that Howard said, 1642 01:14:24.159 --> 01:14:25.720 and Trump said, this is in front of a group 1643 01:14:25.760 --> 01:14:27.720 of people, basically something to the effect of the only 1644 01:14:27.760 --> 01:14:30.000 reason I put up with Howard's bullshit is he gave 1645 01:14:30.079 --> 01:14:32.880 me twenty five million dollars. And you know what Trump 1646 01:14:33.039 --> 01:14:35.359 just the way he talks, and you know, and and 1647 01:14:35.439 --> 01:14:37.279 other times you say, you know, Howard's so great. I 1648 01:14:37.439 --> 01:14:39.279 just asked him for the money and he immediately gave 1649 01:14:39.319 --> 01:14:42.439 it to me, or some version of that. But what 1650 01:14:42.560 --> 01:14:46.239 we also found is that people around Trump, Eric Trump 1651 01:14:46.279 --> 01:14:52.840 and others have been approaching and discussing with golf monarchies 1652 01:14:53.439 --> 01:14:59.359 funding this library, and often the trail heads back to 1653 01:14:59.439 --> 01:15:02.319 the golf. You know, this is what makes a lot 1654 01:15:02.359 --> 01:15:05.159 of this so remarkable is you have an administration that 1655 01:15:05.359 --> 01:15:08.960 is conducting foreign policy dealing with the golf, I mean, 1656 01:15:09.640 --> 01:15:14.119 selling chips, highly advanced chips to the Emirates at the 1657 01:15:14.199 --> 01:15:17.399 same time as the Emirates are putting two billion dollars 1658 01:15:17.520 --> 01:15:21.800 into the Trump and Witcoff family crypto business. You have 1659 01:15:22.279 --> 01:15:27.119 the Katari Jet that the Trump family business doing all 1660 01:15:27.279 --> 01:15:30.560 kinds of deals in the Middle East, and then the 1661 01:15:30.640 --> 01:15:35.279 business of state. It's just one giant, you know, playground 1662 01:15:35.680 --> 01:15:39.960 really with no borders between well put it, let's just 1663 01:15:40.000 --> 01:15:43.760 say it's very hard sometimes to delineate the borders between 1664 01:15:43.840 --> 01:15:49.520 official business and private business, and so that it's almost 1665 01:15:50.199 --> 01:15:53.359 impossible to cover because I truly think we only know 1666 01:15:53.520 --> 01:15:57.760 one percent, maybe five percent of what's going on. And 1667 01:15:58.199 --> 01:16:01.119 this is a story that are colleagues have done phenomenal 1668 01:16:01.199 --> 01:16:03.520 reporting on, people like Eric Lipton the Wall Street Journal, 1669 01:16:03.600 --> 01:16:05.760 and now this. You know, we've done this, you know, 1670 01:16:06.560 --> 01:16:09.720 modest part of it that we've tried to contribute in 1671 01:16:09.800 --> 01:16:12.479 this book. But my Lord, like we have I don't 1672 01:16:12.479 --> 01:16:14.520 think we really have a concept of the breadth and 1673 01:16:14.840 --> 01:16:17.159 depth of this yet, I really don't know. 1674 01:16:17.279 --> 01:16:18.399 And one thing to tell me that I would just 1675 01:16:18.520 --> 01:16:24.439 add is that figure two billion dollars. It's double to 1676 01:16:24.560 --> 01:16:28.600 a presidential library that I think you might be familiar with. 1677 01:16:29.319 --> 01:16:31.399 And our understanding from our reporting is that that's not 1678 01:16:31.600 --> 01:16:35.800 a coincidence. President Trump has never stopped being very focused 1679 01:16:35.840 --> 01:16:39.199 on President Obama, but he was also, in our reporting 1680 01:16:39.760 --> 01:16:43.880 found delighted that President Biden is having a very hard 1681 01:16:43.960 --> 01:16:48.159 time fundraising, and that just made him want to do more. 1682 01:16:48.600 --> 01:16:52.399 But to Jonathan's point, the models that they have for 1683 01:16:52.520 --> 01:16:55.920 this library, it's a hotel, is how it's conceived. And 1684 01:16:58.199 --> 01:17:01.279 they are also still planning on taking Skutari jet with them. 1685 01:17:01.359 --> 01:17:03.199 I don't know what that looks like for air Force 1686 01:17:03.279 --> 01:17:05.840 one for another president in two and a half years. 1687 01:17:05.920 --> 01:17:09.159 But Jonathan is right that there is a there is 1688 01:17:09.199 --> 01:17:11.239 a lot more to be learned here where we don't 1689 01:17:11.359 --> 01:17:14.439 pretend to think we have covered the waterfront. 1690 01:17:14.640 --> 01:17:18.600 Yeah, I mean the crypto transactions alone, are you know, 1691 01:17:18.840 --> 01:17:21.560 you can't possibly follow who is buying Trump coin or 1692 01:17:21.600 --> 01:17:24.399 Milannia coin on any given day. I mean, the opportunities 1693 01:17:24.439 --> 01:17:25.520 for corruption are just staggering. 1694 01:17:26.119 --> 01:17:26.439 Maggie. 1695 01:17:26.479 --> 01:17:29.800 One thing that reading the book really helped me understand 1696 01:17:30.000 --> 01:17:32.439 in a new way was just how chaotic the management 1697 01:17:32.600 --> 01:17:35.560 of the country. And then Trump's own time when he's 1698 01:17:35.640 --> 01:17:38.560 in the Oval Office really is. You describe Trump's time 1699 01:17:38.600 --> 01:17:40.880 in the Oval Office not really as a day that 1700 01:17:41.039 --> 01:17:43.479 is structured with meetings, but more like kind of a 1701 01:17:43.600 --> 01:17:46.680 rolling bull session with some advisors whoever's in town visiting. 1702 01:17:47.079 --> 01:17:49.279 You guys report on the scene where like there's some 1703 01:17:49.479 --> 01:17:52.039 poor NSC goons in the corner trying to get signed 1704 01:17:52.039 --> 01:17:54.399 off on a classified program. On the other side of 1705 01:17:54.439 --> 01:17:57.199 the office, someone's on speakerphone from mar A Lago. The 1706 01:17:57.359 --> 01:18:00.279 fucking decorator walks in with like rug samples. There's thing 1707 01:18:00.319 --> 01:18:01.359 that blows up the whole conversation. 1708 01:18:01.600 --> 01:18:03.399 The pavers for the Rose Gardens. 1709 01:18:05.960 --> 01:18:07.840 Tell us about like paint us a picture of what 1710 01:18:07.880 --> 01:18:10.000 it's like inside the Oval Office and how decisions are 1711 01:18:10.000 --> 01:18:10.439 getting made. 1712 01:18:10.640 --> 01:18:12.680 Yeah, look, I mean we describe, as you say, this 1713 01:18:14.039 --> 01:18:17.199 setting and it's we're describing sort of an average day, right, 1714 01:18:17.319 --> 01:18:20.399 And you could take any given moment over the course 1715 01:18:20.399 --> 01:18:23.199 of the last seventeen months, whatever seventy and a half months, 1716 01:18:23.880 --> 01:18:28.760 and one meeting collides into the next. And Trump often 1717 01:18:28.800 --> 01:18:32.159 invites people in to take part in other meetings. 1718 01:18:32.319 --> 01:18:32.479 You know. 1719 01:18:32.680 --> 01:18:35.359 One example of that in the book is the meeting 1720 01:18:35.399 --> 01:18:40.239 where Laura Lumer is listing people at the NSC and 1721 01:18:40.439 --> 01:18:43.279 elsewhere in the government who she is telling the president 1722 01:18:43.399 --> 01:18:47.319 or against him, and Scott Perry, the Congressman, comes in 1723 01:18:47.439 --> 01:18:50.000 for a separately scheduled meeting, and then they start talking 1724 01:18:50.079 --> 01:18:53.119 and then and so there are constant scenes like this, 1725 01:18:53.760 --> 01:18:56.479 and it has just become very familiar to everybody in 1726 01:18:56.520 --> 01:18:58.560 Trump's world. It's how he functioned at mar A Lago, 1727 01:18:58.600 --> 01:19:01.760 It's how he functioned at Trump Tower. Some of this 1728 01:19:02.119 --> 01:19:05.640 was the case in Term one is it is much 1729 01:19:05.720 --> 01:19:08.800 more expansive now in terms of how the government is 1730 01:19:08.880 --> 01:19:11.680 being managed. What was really striking to us, and we 1731 01:19:11.760 --> 01:19:13.840 do describe this and the reporting in the book is 1732 01:19:14.000 --> 01:19:16.960 just how small a group of people running this government is. 1733 01:19:17.159 --> 01:19:20.079 If they are there's a there's a handful of people, 1734 01:19:20.560 --> 01:19:23.800 and at their agencies at the State Department, at the Pentagon, 1735 01:19:25.560 --> 01:19:29.039 at the CIA, at OD and I. You can go 1736 01:19:29.119 --> 01:19:31.039 down the list, and if they are not people leading 1737 01:19:31.119 --> 01:19:33.399 those agencies are not in the room with the president, 1738 01:19:33.439 --> 01:19:36.199 if they're not in the Oval office, they often don't 1739 01:19:36.319 --> 01:19:39.119 know what's going on. You know, one of the things 1740 01:19:39.199 --> 01:19:41.920 that we talk about a lot is the fact that 1741 01:19:42.960 --> 01:19:47.640 this administration makes a show of transparency, but they actually 1742 01:19:47.680 --> 01:19:50.079 are quite good at keeping secrets when they want to 1743 01:19:50.279 --> 01:19:52.840 and prefer it. There is a great deal that is 1744 01:19:52.920 --> 01:19:55.319 kept secret, so much so that in the lead up 1745 01:19:55.399 --> 01:19:59.159 to the Iran war on February twenty eighth, the Energy 1746 01:19:59.159 --> 01:20:01.399 Secretary and the treasure Secretary had not been part of 1747 01:20:01.479 --> 01:20:04.199 most of the meetings. The two people who would be 1748 01:20:04.279 --> 01:20:07.119 impacted by a global energy crisis the most in this 1749 01:20:07.199 --> 01:20:10.359 government were not part of it. Because this government is 1750 01:20:10.399 --> 01:20:13.279 also very paranoid and worried about leaks. And that's also 1751 01:20:13.359 --> 01:20:15.439 why you see the situation room is the way it 1752 01:20:15.560 --> 01:20:16.079 is so often. 1753 01:20:16.279 --> 01:20:18.159 Yeah, and it's probably not gonna be helped by your 1754 01:20:18.199 --> 01:20:21.079 book because we're all reading about the big freak out 1755 01:20:21.159 --> 01:20:23.560 about you know, everyone wondering about your sourcing, which I 1756 01:20:23.560 --> 01:20:26.399 will not ask you to comment on. But Jonathan, related 1757 01:20:26.439 --> 01:20:28.960 to the kind of management question is just the picture 1758 01:20:29.039 --> 01:20:32.199 you paint of how Trump gets information. For example, you 1759 01:20:32.279 --> 01:20:35.640 guys report that Trump was kind of largely oblivious about 1760 01:20:35.680 --> 01:20:39.439 this massive fight within MAGA that is erupted over US 1761 01:20:39.439 --> 01:20:42.920 support for Israel, and that anecdote really shocked me because 1762 01:20:43.000 --> 01:20:45.119 I mean it seemed like everyone was talking about and 1763 01:20:45.199 --> 01:20:48.079 reporting on it, and usually he has a pretty good, 1764 01:20:48.119 --> 01:20:49.840 you know, sort of antenna for the base, and it 1765 01:20:49.880 --> 01:20:52.840 made me wonder about his information diet generally, which you guys, 1766 01:20:52.920 --> 01:20:55.760 I think describe as information from Fox News and then 1767 01:20:56.279 --> 01:20:59.479 positive news printed out by a staffer named Natalie Harp. 1768 01:21:00.079 --> 01:21:02.039 Can you tell folks who Natalie Harp is and sort 1769 01:21:02.079 --> 01:21:05.439 of more about this information diet and whether does any 1770 01:21:05.520 --> 01:21:08.359 news break through to Donald Trump that is factual but 1771 01:21:08.920 --> 01:21:10.119 bad for him at this point. 1772 01:21:10.600 --> 01:21:15.000 Yeah, it's quite as black and white as that, but 1773 01:21:15.079 --> 01:21:18.760 it's not far off what you just described. Natalie Harp 1774 01:21:18.880 --> 01:21:22.119 is a young woman who has worked for Donald Trump 1775 01:21:22.239 --> 01:21:25.800 for a few years. Used to be an anchor on 1776 01:21:26.319 --> 01:21:33.520 o An, which is a far right network. She one 1777 01:21:33.640 --> 01:21:37.039 story that Maggie and I broke, and it's mentioned in 1778 01:21:37.119 --> 01:21:43.199 the book. She's basically the most devoted, let's say, to 1779 01:21:43.239 --> 01:21:46.000 Donald Trump, more than anyone we've ever seen. She writes 1780 01:21:46.039 --> 01:21:50.479 him these She has written him numerous letters that she's 1781 01:21:50.560 --> 01:21:52.720 left for him, including one that says you are all 1782 01:21:52.800 --> 01:21:55.880 that matters to me, or some version of that. Raised 1783 01:21:55.880 --> 01:21:59.640 the eyebrows of the Secret Service during the campaign, some 1784 01:21:59.760 --> 01:22:02.680 of these met letters that were left in some of 1785 01:22:02.760 --> 01:22:06.119 his private quarters, and she's just totally devoted him. In 1786 01:22:06.319 --> 01:22:09.319 Oval Office meetings, she sits on the chair the side 1787 01:22:09.359 --> 01:22:12.159 of the room with her laptop open and Trump they 1788 01:22:12.199 --> 01:22:16.600 call her the human printer. So Trump basically just says, Natalie, 1789 01:22:16.880 --> 01:22:20.199 get me this, or he's, you know, google this. We 1790 01:22:20.279 --> 01:22:23.119 have a scene in the book where during the trade 1791 01:22:24.079 --> 01:22:27.159 war or lead up to the Liberation Day, where he 1792 01:22:27.520 --> 01:22:30.199 declares a trade war against the whole world, where he's 1793 01:22:30.279 --> 01:22:33.119 just not believing the trade and up the deficit numbers 1794 01:22:33.159 --> 01:22:35.159 that Howard Lutnik is giving him, and he says, Natalie, 1795 01:22:35.159 --> 01:22:38.119 google me the real numbers. So she's you know, furiously googling, 1796 01:22:38.720 --> 01:22:40.800 you know, And of course the real numbers don't exist, 1797 01:22:40.880 --> 01:22:43.800 because what Secretary Lucky Dick had given him were actually 1798 01:22:43.840 --> 01:22:47.279 the real ROAs. So that's who she is. His information 1799 01:22:47.439 --> 01:22:50.159 diet has constricted, there's no question. In Term one he 1800 01:22:50.319 --> 01:22:52.960 was scrolling Twitter a lot more, which just gave him 1801 01:22:53.039 --> 01:22:57.039 much more exposure to just random things that were coming 1802 01:22:57.079 --> 01:23:03.600 across the transom. He still does watch MSNBC, as you've noticed, 1803 01:23:03.600 --> 01:23:06.880 when he rages against Joe Scarborough and Meeker, and you know, 1804 01:23:06.960 --> 01:23:10.640 he'll still watch CNN and you know, but it's really 1805 01:23:11.079 --> 01:23:16.520 Fox all the time and that whole world of the 1806 01:23:16.640 --> 01:23:21.680 Manisphere podcast. He exploited that to his advantage very effectively 1807 01:23:21.800 --> 01:23:23.960 during the campaign, but it wasn't like he was ever 1808 01:23:24.039 --> 01:23:26.399 a consumer of it. Like Donal, Trump doesn't sit there 1809 01:23:26.439 --> 01:23:29.720 listening to like Theo Vonne and Joe Rogan and Tucker 1810 01:23:29.760 --> 01:23:33.960 Carlson's podcast. They might as well not exist. He'll occasionally hear, 1811 01:23:34.159 --> 01:23:36.600 oh yeah, Joe Rogan's been criticizing you, but he's not 1812 01:23:36.920 --> 01:23:41.800 tuned into that. He's just watching Fox and hearing largely 1813 01:23:41.880 --> 01:23:45.479 from people who support him. You know, the patio Mara 1814 01:23:45.600 --> 01:23:48.520 Lago is full of flatterers who are coming by you. 1815 01:23:48.680 --> 01:23:52.479 Great job, You're doing an amazing job. Mister President. And 1816 01:23:52.880 --> 01:23:57.159 his staff are people who largely believe in him, like him, 1817 01:23:58.119 --> 01:24:00.239 not people like the first term who thought that he 1818 01:24:00.479 --> 01:24:03.640 was dangerous or somebody that needed to be rained in. 1819 01:24:04.119 --> 01:24:06.439 That's just not the dynamic at all. So and then 1820 01:24:06.479 --> 01:24:09.399 he's got you know, outside people like Boris Epstein, who's 1821 01:24:09.439 --> 01:24:13.399 his personal lawyer and enforcer, who you know, he is 1822 01:24:13.520 --> 01:24:16.039 so positive to Trump that Trump even jokes about it. 1823 01:24:16.239 --> 01:24:18.319 You know, he'll tell aids like, oh, I get indeted, 1824 01:24:18.359 --> 01:24:21.239 and Boris tells me it's the best news ever. So 1825 01:24:21.359 --> 01:24:24.600 that's I mean, that's the environment. You know, presidents always 1826 01:24:24.720 --> 01:24:27.840 exist in a bubble, but this is a really thick bubble. 1827 01:24:28.000 --> 01:24:31.760 This is an almost impenetrable bubble that Donald Trump exists in. 1828 01:24:32.000 --> 01:24:35.560 He's also much less willing to believe the bad news 1829 01:24:35.800 --> 01:24:37.880 is the other piece, frankly. I mean, people will bring 1830 01:24:38.000 --> 01:24:42.119 him information and say things like, you know, we've always 1831 01:24:42.119 --> 01:24:45.319 heard him say some version of you know, to Jonathan's 1832 01:24:45.319 --> 01:24:47.319 point about you know, bring me the real numbers, the 1833 01:24:49.079 --> 01:24:51.399 those pull numbers are fake, you know, the real ones 1834 01:24:51.560 --> 01:24:55.960 are you know, Trafalgar or whatever, something that he considers 1835 01:24:56.000 --> 01:24:59.199 to be more in line with how he sees the world. 1836 01:24:59.319 --> 01:25:01.600 But it is hard for people who are trying to 1837 01:25:01.680 --> 01:25:06.000 tell him that actually there are other things happening to 1838 01:25:06.119 --> 01:25:08.199 get through to him that way. And just one addition 1839 01:25:08.279 --> 01:25:13.159 to Jonathan's point about how often Fox is on Fox 1840 01:25:13.319 --> 01:25:17.119 is far less critical just in the may of him 1841 01:25:18.039 --> 01:25:21.279 than it was at various points in Turn one. Not 1842 01:25:21.640 --> 01:25:27.640 you know, Fox was obviously not MSNBC, but he received 1843 01:25:27.760 --> 01:25:33.319 more criticism on certain shows than he does it all 1844 01:25:33.439 --> 01:25:34.960 now and that has an impact too. 1845 01:25:35.520 --> 01:25:38.359 So that sort brings me my next question about the 1846 01:25:38.840 --> 01:25:40.720 lowest moment. It wasn't a moment, It was the lowest 1847 01:25:40.880 --> 01:25:43.439 several months, which was their handling of the Epstein files 1848 01:25:43.439 --> 01:25:45.319 and mishandling of the Epstein files. I just want to 1849 01:25:45.359 --> 01:25:48.520 get your read on how and why you think they 1850 01:25:48.600 --> 01:25:52.319 mishandled it so badly? Is this because there's no good answers? 1851 01:25:52.520 --> 01:25:54.399 Trump was really good friends with Jeffrey Epstein. He was 1852 01:25:54.439 --> 01:25:56.840 for decades. He was a total creep at the time. 1853 01:25:56.920 --> 01:25:59.159 Maybe like there's not great. 1854 01:25:58.960 --> 01:25:59.600 Way to spin that. 1855 01:26:00.119 --> 01:26:02.640 Did they misread the politics and not listen to the 1856 01:26:02.800 --> 01:26:05.600 more online people like jd Vance who were warning them? 1857 01:26:06.279 --> 01:26:08.880 And then relatedly, I mean, you guys have these incredible 1858 01:26:08.920 --> 01:26:12.560 scenes in the situation room where Trump's team is trying 1859 01:26:12.560 --> 01:26:14.720 to figure out how to do damage control for him, 1860 01:26:15.119 --> 01:26:16.479 but the story keeps getting worse. 1861 01:26:17.000 --> 01:26:18.159 We see the doodle that. 1862 01:26:18.319 --> 01:26:20.560 Is in the Wall Street Journal that he put into 1863 01:26:20.600 --> 01:26:23.920 the birthday book for Jeffrey Epstein. Did anyone you talk 1864 01:26:24.000 --> 01:26:26.279 to say to you, like, you know what? It was 1865 01:26:26.359 --> 01:26:30.159 personally pretty upsetting and demoralizing to learn that this guy 1866 01:26:30.279 --> 01:26:32.920 we worked for was actually part of this cabal that 1867 01:26:33.039 --> 01:26:34.880 we had promised to take down during the campaign. 1868 01:26:35.319 --> 01:26:37.600 Well, I think at the start of all of this, 1869 01:26:37.800 --> 01:26:40.439 the first thing to understand is that from a staff 1870 01:26:40.520 --> 01:26:42.960 point of view, you're limited in what you can do 1871 01:26:43.279 --> 01:26:45.680 when the person you're working for, the president, wants it 1872 01:26:45.800 --> 01:26:49.600 all to disappear. He wanted this whole thing to disappear. 1873 01:26:49.800 --> 01:26:52.279 I mean, he didn't want transparency, didn't want all this 1874 01:26:52.319 --> 01:26:57.840 stuff to come out, and he would get snappy when 1875 01:26:57.880 --> 01:27:00.680 people brought it up in his presence. So what the 1876 01:27:00.760 --> 01:27:04.960 staff did was they had these conversations largely away from 1877 01:27:05.039 --> 01:27:09.439 Donald Trump. They had them in the Situation Room for secrecy. 1878 01:27:10.680 --> 01:27:12.720 You know, as you know Tommy from your time in 1879 01:27:12.800 --> 01:27:16.560 the this is one of the most guarded rooms in 1880 01:27:16.640 --> 01:27:20.359 the government as a national security command center. Essentially that 1881 01:27:20.479 --> 01:27:24.960 they turned into a sort of Jeffrey Epstein crisis response center. 1882 01:27:25.840 --> 01:27:28.039 And these are the top officials in the government sitting 1883 01:27:28.039 --> 01:27:32.439 around the table trying to craft a pr strategy. What 1884 01:27:32.760 --> 01:27:36.359 was evident to his staff very early on was that a. 1885 01:27:37.199 --> 01:27:40.159 Donald Trump's name was all over these files. I mean 1886 01:27:40.199 --> 01:27:42.920 the New York Times we found more than thirty eight 1887 01:27:43.000 --> 01:27:45.840 thousand references to Trump and his family and places like 1888 01:27:45.960 --> 01:27:48.760 Marra a Lago in these files. But it was also 1889 01:27:48.920 --> 01:27:52.199 just a sense of not knowing really what was out 1890 01:27:52.279 --> 01:27:55.680 there and not being able to have these candid conversations 1891 01:27:55.720 --> 01:27:59.199 with Trump. I do think one thing you said is true, 1892 01:27:59.279 --> 01:28:04.399 which is early on senior people on his team underestimated 1893 01:28:04.880 --> 01:28:09.800 the political salience of this issue. And remember, for a 1894 01:28:09.840 --> 01:28:12.560 lot of them who've gone through all kinds of scandal 1895 01:28:12.640 --> 01:28:15.520 and crisis with Donald Trump, from their point of view, 1896 01:28:15.640 --> 01:28:18.560 this is just another one. Why would this be different 1897 01:28:18.680 --> 01:28:21.159 from you know, Access Hollywood or you know, go down 1898 01:28:21.239 --> 01:28:25.119 the list. But it was, and it was very frustrating 1899 01:28:25.159 --> 01:28:28.479 to Trump himself because he's so used to telling his base, 1900 01:28:28.920 --> 01:28:32.319 think this, do this, and it shall be done. And 1901 01:28:32.439 --> 01:28:35.760 this was this issue where, perhaps because some of his 1902 01:28:35.920 --> 01:28:41.319 own people had helped, you know, whip up the hysteria 1903 01:28:41.479 --> 01:28:45.880 and conspiracy about Epstein, the base just wasn't listening. The 1904 01:28:45.920 --> 01:28:48.520 base just refused to kind of take direction on that, 1905 01:28:48.640 --> 01:28:51.159 and it just hung around. And one thing we obtained 1906 01:28:51.159 --> 01:28:55.880 in our reporting for the book is private focus group 1907 01:28:56.439 --> 01:28:59.960 research that Trump's team did this year, not last year, 1908 01:29:00.079 --> 01:29:02.279 this year, almost a full year after they first tried 1909 01:29:02.319 --> 01:29:04.840 to start dealing with the Epstein thing. Epstein was still 1910 01:29:04.920 --> 01:29:08.680 cutting through in these focused groups to an alarming extent 1911 01:29:09.199 --> 01:29:12.720 for Trump's team. So, you know, all these meetings happened, 1912 01:29:12.760 --> 01:29:15.039 but it was a turning point. I think we can 1913 01:29:15.119 --> 01:29:19.439 now say with some level of confidence. Last summer is 1914 01:29:19.520 --> 01:29:24.279 when Trump's political fortunes really started to decline. And one 1915 01:29:24.319 --> 01:29:28.239 of Trump's advisors compared to Biden's decision to withdraw from 1916 01:29:28.239 --> 01:29:30.520 Afghanistan as sort of the moment in the Biden had 1917 01:29:30.520 --> 01:29:32.359 been when you start to see, you know, it's not 1918 01:29:32.520 --> 01:29:35.720 dissimilar with with Epstein, and it's still a problem even 1919 01:29:35.760 --> 01:29:37.239 to this day politically. 1920 01:29:37.560 --> 01:29:39.520 Maggie, you know, you guys have reported on a bunch 1921 01:29:39.520 --> 01:29:42.720 of folks of US reported on Trump enjoying to compare 1922 01:29:43.159 --> 01:29:47.439 and publicly rank Rubio versus ged Vans. But you guys 1923 01:29:47.520 --> 01:29:50.000 write that even early on, like back in twenty twenty one, 1924 01:29:50.039 --> 01:29:52.680 I think that Trump's aids notice he had more personal 1925 01:29:52.760 --> 01:29:55.520 chemistry with Marco Rubio than Advance. Now, Vance obviously wages 1926 01:29:55.520 --> 01:29:58.239 a prett effective charm campaign. He goes from calling him, 1927 01:29:58.439 --> 01:30:01.079 you know, comparing him to Hitler, to getting on the ticket. 1928 01:30:01.640 --> 01:30:04.399 You write that Trump was impressed by Vance's intellect and 1929 01:30:04.560 --> 01:30:07.319 good looks going to take issue with the part of that. 1930 01:30:07.439 --> 01:30:11.920 But whatever, is this an endlessly fun parlor game and 1931 01:30:12.039 --> 01:30:14.640 way to torture these guys or is he really trying 1932 01:30:14.720 --> 01:30:18.159 to kind of constantly focused group and figure out the 1933 01:30:18.279 --> 01:30:19.079 future of NAGA. 1934 01:30:19.359 --> 01:30:19.960 How do you view it? 1935 01:30:20.359 --> 01:30:23.680 A couple of things, But one is you mentioned the 1936 01:30:23.760 --> 01:30:27.560 JD Vance criticism of Trump and the Hitler comment, which 1937 01:30:27.600 --> 01:30:30.159 I think was made in a text exchange with someone. 1938 01:30:31.680 --> 01:30:34.800 It's not like Marco Rubio was exactly subtle about Donald Trump. 1939 01:30:34.880 --> 01:30:38.600 They ran against each other. There was a whole you know, 1940 01:30:39.439 --> 01:30:45.199 Genitalia adjacent whatever on the primary debate state Oh sorry, 1941 01:30:45.359 --> 01:30:46.399 it was just Genitaliam. 1942 01:30:46.560 --> 01:30:49.239 Sorry, it's a literal dick measuring contest that are round. 1943 01:30:51.039 --> 01:30:53.279 So I'm just gonna leave it there with you, Tommy. So, 1944 01:30:53.640 --> 01:30:56.239 I think that a couple of things. One, as you 1945 01:30:56.640 --> 01:30:59.079 know very well. The second that somebody who is in 1946 01:30:59.199 --> 01:31:04.760 office and is term limited, which the president is. Despite 1947 01:31:04.800 --> 01:31:08.079 all of the conversation around this, once they endorse somebody, 1948 01:31:08.880 --> 01:31:11.520 they stop being quite as relevant and their lame duck 1949 01:31:11.560 --> 01:31:14.560 status starts to increase. Donald Trump is not exactly somebody 1950 01:31:14.600 --> 01:31:17.159 who is going to disappear quietly into that good night 1951 01:31:17.239 --> 01:31:19.720 as we've been saying throughout this episode number one. So 1952 01:31:19.840 --> 01:31:22.920 he's in no rush for that because he sees this 1953 01:31:23.000 --> 01:31:25.520 as his party and his movement for a variety of reasons. 1954 01:31:25.920 --> 01:31:27.800 I do think it is fun for him. I do 1955 01:31:27.920 --> 01:31:29.880 think he enjoys it. As long as he has been 1956 01:31:29.920 --> 01:31:31.960 in politics, he has done this. He did this with 1957 01:31:32.079 --> 01:31:36.840 Mike Pence and Newt Gingrich and Chris Christie in twenty sixteen. 1958 01:31:37.840 --> 01:31:40.439 In the immediately in the lead up to when he 1959 01:31:40.479 --> 01:31:43.640 announced that it was Pence, he was still leaving the 1960 01:31:43.720 --> 01:31:45.760 idea open that it might be Chris Christy, still which 1961 01:31:46.279 --> 01:31:49.039 he'd already offered it to Pence. So yes, there is 1962 01:31:49.119 --> 01:31:52.479 the game aspect of it. It's hard to look at 1963 01:31:53.239 --> 01:31:57.840 the existing fundamentals of the modern Republican Party and the 1964 01:31:57.920 --> 01:32:01.479 MAGA movement and not see how JD. Van is still 1965 01:32:01.680 --> 01:32:06.119 very much the prohibitive front runner. Now, obviously lights can change, 1966 01:32:06.760 --> 01:32:08.720 but I also don't think that Donald Trump is going 1967 01:32:08.840 --> 01:32:13.159 to completely defy reality if that's where it's going. But again, 1968 01:32:13.520 --> 01:32:15.560 these predictions are not worth a whole lot. I do 1969 01:32:15.640 --> 01:32:18.840 think we will continue to see much more of this's 1970 01:32:18.880 --> 01:32:21.239 going forward, but it's totally. 1971 01:32:21.199 --> 01:32:24.640 On an interpersonal level. It's just it's totally bizarre. I mean, 1972 01:32:24.840 --> 01:32:25.840 we have a lot of this in the book. But 1973 01:32:26.279 --> 01:32:28.840 we have a scene in the book where Rupert Murdoch 1974 01:32:29.600 --> 01:32:32.079 comes to the White House for dinners. We're sitting on 1975 01:32:32.119 --> 01:32:34.560 the same table as Trump in the Blue Room of 1976 01:32:34.600 --> 01:32:37.600 the White House, and JD. Vance and Marco Rubio are 1977 01:32:37.680 --> 01:32:41.960 at the table, and Trump right there with the both 1978 01:32:42.000 --> 01:32:44.880 of them at the table, asks Rupert Murdoch to assess 1979 01:32:45.039 --> 01:32:49.800 each of them, and Murdoch gives Marco Rubio a much 1980 01:32:49.920 --> 01:32:54.199 more hearty, you know, endorsement than Vance. I mean, this 1981 01:32:54.359 --> 01:32:58.880 is what Trump is subjecting his vice president too. I 1982 01:32:58.920 --> 01:33:01.720 think the only thing we can confident of is that 1983 01:33:01.800 --> 01:33:04.239 he's not going to make it comfortable or easy for him. 1984 01:33:05.439 --> 01:33:07.439 He's just going to keep doing this. It's just who 1985 01:33:07.520 --> 01:33:07.880 he is. 1986 01:33:08.079 --> 01:33:09.920 Yeah, I think the quotes you have is Murdock says 1987 01:33:09.920 --> 01:33:11.720 I think JD. Has the potential to be great, and 1988 01:33:11.800 --> 01:33:14.279 of Rubio, he says, Marco is brilliant. So that, yeah, 1989 01:33:14.319 --> 01:33:19.039 that'd be tough to hear. Uh So, Jonathan, I've tracked 1990 01:33:19.119 --> 01:33:21.560 the Trump foreign policy closely. I just find it particularly 1991 01:33:21.600 --> 01:33:23.720 interesting and since the beginning I've been trying to understand 1992 01:33:23.760 --> 01:33:27.159 the emergence of Steve Witkoff, who, for the listeners is 1993 01:33:27.159 --> 01:33:30.279 like Trump's real estate and golf buddy turned diplomatic envoy 1994 01:33:30.359 --> 01:33:34.239 for for everything. This anecdote from the book blew my mind. 1995 01:33:34.279 --> 01:33:36.720 So you have this scene where witcough is, I believe 1996 01:33:36.760 --> 01:33:40.439 in Moscow meeting with Vladimir Putin. The anecdote goes like this, 1997 01:33:41.199 --> 01:33:44.000 what are you drawing, Sir? Wikoff asked Putin held up 1998 01:33:44.000 --> 01:33:46.800 a piece of paper in thick, looping penstrokes. It said 1999 01:33:46.880 --> 01:33:50.159 three plus two, which is shorthand for the territorial framework 2000 01:33:50.199 --> 01:33:52.920 that wick Cooff had discussed with him. Three oblists Russia 2001 01:33:52.960 --> 01:33:55.000 would keep out right and two where the fighting would 2002 01:33:55.000 --> 01:33:55.640 freeze in place. 2003 01:33:56.479 --> 01:33:56.800 Quote. 2004 01:33:56.920 --> 01:33:58.720 Can you can you sign that for me and I 2005 01:33:58.760 --> 01:34:01.600 can take it home? Witkoff asked. Putin signed the drawing, 2006 01:34:01.640 --> 01:34:03.479 and Wikoff brought it home, where he had it framed 2007 01:34:04.159 --> 01:34:06.960 in black with tope matts. So two questions for listeners, like, 2008 01:34:07.039 --> 01:34:11.359 basically what Wikoff is asking to be framed? There is 2009 01:34:11.920 --> 01:34:15.880 a piece of paper that would memorialize an agreement that 2010 01:34:15.960 --> 01:34:18.159 would be capitulation for the Ukrainians. And I think a 2011 01:34:18.159 --> 01:34:21.399 lot of people would argue validates Putin's decision to invade Ukraine, 2012 01:34:21.680 --> 01:34:24.439 which led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people. 2013 01:34:25.239 --> 01:34:26.520 Why would Wikoff want that? 2014 01:34:26.640 --> 01:34:27.239 In your view? 2015 01:34:27.319 --> 01:34:31.039 And then, more importantly, what do you make of Witkoff's 2016 01:34:31.079 --> 01:34:34.079 emergence and his motivations, Because by all accounts, he seems 2017 01:34:34.119 --> 01:34:36.560 like a very nice man, one who seemingly is in 2018 01:34:36.680 --> 01:34:38.840 over his head, understandably by the way I think anyone 2019 01:34:38.880 --> 01:34:41.119 would be in his position. But also it's hard not 2020 01:34:41.279 --> 01:34:45.039 to see his son's role at world's liberty, financial the 2021 01:34:45.039 --> 01:34:48.279 crypto business, and worry about conflicts of interest and corruption. 2022 01:34:48.520 --> 01:34:51.319 So Steve Wikoff has no before this term, had no 2023 01:34:51.399 --> 01:34:55.039 diplomatic experience full stop, no foreign colicy experience full stop. 2024 01:34:56.039 --> 01:35:00.119 There is a commonality at the most senior levels of 2025 01:35:00.560 --> 01:35:04.960 Trump world, which is a contempt for subject matter expertise 2026 01:35:05.000 --> 01:35:10.520 and subject matter experts. Jared Kushner would often to others 2027 01:35:10.760 --> 01:35:15.000 speak with contempt about you know, people who've worked on 2028 01:35:15.079 --> 01:35:18.279 Middle East deals forever, and there's a feeling from these 2029 01:35:18.359 --> 01:35:22.600 guys there always has been that they have fresh ideas, 2030 01:35:22.680 --> 01:35:25.720 fresh answers, private sector thinking, you know you've heard, you've 2031 01:35:25.760 --> 01:35:29.960 heard all of this before. Trump again, Trump feels comfortable 2032 01:35:30.000 --> 01:35:32.560 with Wikoff saw him as a deal maker, thought that 2033 01:35:32.640 --> 01:35:34.680 he could bring home a quick deal with Putin. Trump 2034 01:35:34.680 --> 01:35:36.520 thought it would be very easy to end this war. 2035 01:35:36.640 --> 01:35:38.840 When he was saying twenty four hours it actually in 2036 01:35:38.880 --> 01:35:40.600 Trump's mind, I don't think was that much of a 2037 01:35:40.680 --> 01:35:43.279 rhetorical flourish. I think he genuinely thought he could end 2038 01:35:43.319 --> 01:35:47.079 this conflict very quickly and has been quite frustrated that 2039 01:35:47.239 --> 01:35:49.680 it hadn't that it hasn't been that Witcoff hasn't been 2040 01:35:49.720 --> 01:35:53.319 able to bring home a deal. Wit Coough, from what 2041 01:35:53.399 --> 01:35:57.359 we can gather from his colleagues, views the conflict, there's 2042 01:35:57.359 --> 01:36:00.239 not really a sense of Putin as a villain and 2043 01:36:00.359 --> 01:36:04.279 an aggressor and Ukraine as a victim. It's actually, you know, 2044 01:36:04.520 --> 01:36:07.600 we have a scene in the book where Trump is 2045 01:36:07.920 --> 01:36:11.159 with his inner circle in the Oval office hashing out 2046 01:36:11.800 --> 01:36:15.279 you know, supposedly going to hash out the Rushia Ukraine policy, 2047 01:36:15.479 --> 01:36:19.000 and Keith Kellogg, who is his original envoys, dutifully giving 2048 01:36:19.039 --> 01:36:22.840 this presentation which he spent all this time on. Unbeknownst 2049 01:36:22.880 --> 01:36:26.199 to Kellogg, Trump already had a back channel set up 2050 01:36:26.199 --> 01:36:28.680 with Witkoff. He had told Kellogg about that he's doing 2051 01:36:28.720 --> 01:36:32.640 this presentation, and during the presentation, Trump is interrupting him 2052 01:36:32.680 --> 01:36:35.079 by saying things like the only good thing about Ukraine 2053 01:36:35.199 --> 01:36:40.199 is the women they keep winning Miss Universe. Zelensky's terrible, 2054 01:36:40.359 --> 01:36:45.399 He's destroyed his country. So the animist, when the animus 2055 01:36:45.479 --> 01:36:49.359 comes out, it's almost never against Putin, it's almost always 2056 01:36:49.560 --> 01:36:53.720 against Ukraine and Zelensky. And I think Witkoff saw his 2057 01:36:54.760 --> 01:36:57.960 his job as bringing this conflict to an end, but 2058 01:36:58.159 --> 01:37:02.640 really viewed those leaders on on a flat plane without 2059 01:37:02.720 --> 01:37:05.800 really making moral distinctions. I mean, we have another line 2060 01:37:05.800 --> 01:37:08.479 in the book where he tells Pusan that, you know, 2061 01:37:08.600 --> 01:37:10.399 Russia's good at a lot of things, but they're really 2062 01:37:10.479 --> 01:37:14.039 bad at PR as as if the Kremlin's main problem 2063 01:37:14.159 --> 01:37:19.000 was a PR problem. So that's the mindset. And you know, 2064 01:37:19.199 --> 01:37:21.960 he goes and meets with Putin on his own. He 2065 01:37:22.640 --> 01:37:25.640 really doesn't use staff like someone in that role would 2066 01:37:25.680 --> 01:37:29.439 normally use staff. And as a result, there have been 2067 01:37:29.520 --> 01:37:33.960 times where there I think there's been miscommunication and misunderstandings, 2068 01:37:34.039 --> 01:37:37.680 and you know, it turns out diplomacy is complicated and 2069 01:37:38.000 --> 01:37:40.640 this conflict was not easy to resolve, and in fact 2070 01:37:40.680 --> 01:37:44.760 it's still raging on many many twenty four hours after 2071 01:37:45.159 --> 01:37:47.000 the initial twenty four hours when he was going to 2072 01:37:47.079 --> 01:37:47.640 solve it right. 2073 01:37:47.720 --> 01:37:49.560 Well, I think we'll down the road, maybe we'll learn 2074 01:37:49.600 --> 01:37:52.000 more about this, whether there's a corruption piece of this 2075 01:37:52.119 --> 01:37:54.119 to the Wickoff story. But listen, you guys have given 2076 01:37:54.199 --> 01:37:56.520 me a lot of time on an unbelievably busy week. 2077 01:37:57.079 --> 01:37:59.920 The book again is Regime Change, Inside the Imperial Present 2078 01:38:00.039 --> 01:38:02.640 and See of Donald Trump. I cannot recommend it highly 2079 01:38:02.760 --> 01:38:04.680 enough to our audience who are desperate to try to 2080 01:38:04.800 --> 01:38:09.039 understand Donald Trump the man, this administration, the decision making process, 2081 01:38:09.239 --> 01:38:13.439 and also just to I think we even read things 2082 01:38:13.479 --> 01:38:16.239 that we knew again but in a way that puts 2083 01:38:16.279 --> 01:38:18.800 together the whole scene and helps you understand all the 2084 01:38:18.840 --> 01:38:22.079 different motivations and people involved. And it's an extraordinary piece 2085 01:38:22.119 --> 01:38:25.319 of work. So congratulations to both of you for forgetting 2086 01:38:25.319 --> 01:38:27.039 this thing done and out into the world, and for 2087 01:38:27.159 --> 01:38:27.880 talk with me today. 2088 01:38:27.920 --> 01:38:29.199 Jonathan, Maggie, thank you so much. 2089 01:38:29.880 --> 01:38:31.079 Thanks Tommy, thanks so much. 2090 01:38:38.359 --> 01:38:40.119 That's our show for today. Thanks to Maggie and Jonathan 2091 01:38:40.199 --> 01:38:42.840 for coming on. Everybody check out Regime Change. Dan and 2092 01:38:42.880 --> 01:38:44.760 I will be back with a new show on Friday. 2093 01:38:45.039 --> 01:38:47.399 Positive America is a Crooked Media production. Our show is 2094 01:38:47.399 --> 01:38:50.039 produced by Austin Fisher, Saul Ruben, McKenna Roberts, and Faris 2095 01:38:50.079 --> 01:38:52.760 Safari with re Jerlin, Elijah Cone and Adrian Hill. Our 2096 01:38:52.800 --> 01:38:55.520 team includes Matt de Grote, Ben Hefcot, Jordan Kanter, Charlotte 2097 01:38:55.560 --> 01:38:58.039 Landis Krol pel Avive, David Tolles, Mia Kelman, Ryan Young 2098 01:38:58.159 --> 01:39:00.359 and Naomi Single. Our staff is probably you Younis with 2099 01:39:00.359 --> 01:39:01.600 the Writers Guild of America East