WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:05.200 These are people of the land, the common clay of 2 00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:06.080 the New West. 3 00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:08.759 You know. 4 00:00:30.519 --> 00:00:33.399 Welcome to Amusing Jews, where we celebrate Jewish contributors and 5 00:00:33.439 --> 00:00:37.799 contributions to American popular culture. I'm Jonathan Friedman and I'm 6 00:00:37.880 --> 00:00:42.439 Joey Angelfield producer engineer Mike Tomren is working somewhere behind 7 00:00:42.439 --> 00:00:46.159 the scenes. Amusing Jews is a project of Adauchavareem Congregation 8 00:00:46.240 --> 00:00:49.520 for Humanistic Judaism, the Jewish Museum of the American West, 9 00:00:49.799 --> 00:00:53.640 and Atheist United Studios. Hey, Joey, one of the joys 10 00:00:53.640 --> 00:00:56.240 of my life is discovering that the same person is 11 00:00:56.280 --> 00:01:00.719 behind two seemingly unrelated things that I love. George Miller, 12 00:01:00.799 --> 00:01:04.480 for instance, is responsible for both the Mad Max franchise 13 00:01:04.920 --> 00:01:09.000 and the family classic Babe. Norman Jewison, who is not 14 00:01:09.120 --> 00:01:11.959 Jewish nor the son of a Jew, directed both Fiddler 15 00:01:11.959 --> 00:01:15.319 on the Roof and Jesus Christ Superstar. Our guest today 16 00:01:15.359 --> 00:01:18.760 wrote a charming new documentary about a beloved comedic actor, 17 00:01:19.400 --> 00:01:24.079 and numerous episodes of a creepy documentary series about unexplained events. 18 00:01:24.400 --> 00:01:28.200 We're delighted to talk with Glenn Kirshbaum, a documentary writer, producer, 19 00:01:28.200 --> 00:01:31.719 and director whose latest film is remembering Gene Wilder. He 20 00:01:31.799 --> 00:01:35.680 also wrote episodes of Unsolved Mysteries and has overseen hundreds 21 00:01:35.680 --> 00:01:39.599 of hours of programming on the History Channel, A A E. Discovery, 22 00:01:39.799 --> 00:01:42.439 National Geographic, the Travel Channel. 23 00:01:42.200 --> 00:01:44.519 The Food Network, HGTV, the. 24 00:01:44.480 --> 00:01:48.680 Weather Channel, and more. Glenn, welcome to Amusing Jews. 25 00:01:49.319 --> 00:01:52.159 Thank you, and I will try to be amusing. I 26 00:01:52.200 --> 00:01:55.599 am Jewish, so let's see where that takes us. 27 00:01:55.680 --> 00:01:57.719 So we'll start at the beginning. But this is a 28 00:01:57.719 --> 00:02:00.799 big laden question. You've spent over forty years in the 29 00:02:00.840 --> 00:02:03.159 television business. How did you get your start? 30 00:02:03.400 --> 00:02:05.400 You know, I came out here to write comedy. My 31 00:02:05.920 --> 00:02:10.719 brother was a comedy writer, and when I arrived, he 32 00:02:10.879 --> 00:02:15.479 was writing for a show called Fridays, which was ABC's 33 00:02:15.520 --> 00:02:21.199 answer to Saturday Night Live. And it became very clear 34 00:02:21.240 --> 00:02:26.439 to me early on just how miserable every comedy writer was. 35 00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:30.759 I mean, these are funny, funny people. They were, you know, 36 00:02:31.039 --> 00:02:35.240 Larry David and Michael Richards and Larry Charles, and you know, 37 00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:40.319 they were putting great material on the air. But when 38 00:02:40.360 --> 00:02:43.199 you would talk to them, or when they talk amongst themselves, 39 00:02:43.520 --> 00:02:47.400 nobody ever laughed. They you know, would say, oh, yeah, 40 00:02:47.400 --> 00:02:51.639 that's funny. Or that works. Yeah, that's great, Yeah, that's hysterical. Yeah. 41 00:02:51.919 --> 00:02:56.479 And it just was a group of people that I thought, 42 00:02:56.520 --> 00:02:59.680 you know, Jesus, I don't know if I'm that guy 43 00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:03.639 to hang out with these folks. And so I ended 44 00:03:03.719 --> 00:03:07.520 up getting an internship at a show called That's Incredible, 45 00:03:07.719 --> 00:03:11.560 which was, you know, it was basically an excuse to 46 00:03:11.599 --> 00:03:15.159 find the biggest maniacs in the world, people who were 47 00:03:15.319 --> 00:03:19.400 totally missugar and put them on the air. So I 48 00:03:19.599 --> 00:03:22.960 was hired as the receptionist. Because I did such a 49 00:03:22.960 --> 00:03:25.560 fine job of reading fan mail, they said, I think 50 00:03:25.599 --> 00:03:28.360 this guy would be really good on the phones. And 51 00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:31.800 when calls came in that weren't very good, I would say, 52 00:03:31.879 --> 00:03:34.319 let me give you a researcher. But if it was 53 00:03:34.360 --> 00:03:37.319 a really good story, I'd say, oh tell me, oh really, 54 00:03:37.400 --> 00:03:39.800 Oh you know what, can I call you back tonight? 55 00:03:40.400 --> 00:03:45.520 So I ended up finding the most insane people, you know. 56 00:03:45.759 --> 00:03:49.080 I brought in the guy who ate and digested a bicycle, 57 00:03:50.360 --> 00:03:53.199 the guy who could stop electrical fans with this tongue, 58 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:57.479 you know, thing, people of that ilk. And as a result, 59 00:03:57.520 --> 00:03:59.800 they said, you know, this guy shouldn't be on the phones, 60 00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:03.520 And they made me a researcher, and I moved up 61 00:04:03.560 --> 00:04:06.759 from being a researcher to being an associate producer to 62 00:04:07.039 --> 00:04:10.639 ultimately being a director in the field. So it just 63 00:04:10.840 --> 00:04:13.479 was a case of you know what, you got to 64 00:04:13.599 --> 00:04:16.720 just go for it, and I was very, very fortunate 65 00:04:17.160 --> 00:04:19.920 and surrounded by people who are still dear friends to 66 00:04:19.959 --> 00:04:20.439 this day. 67 00:04:20.720 --> 00:04:24.519 That's incredible that you were involved with That's incredible. What 68 00:04:24.600 --> 00:04:28.079 an incredible show that was. I watched it every day, 69 00:04:28.680 --> 00:04:30.959 especially in the summer months when there was a much 70 00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:32.839 to do. It was on TV in the middle of 71 00:04:32.920 --> 00:04:36.160 the day. I remember the guy with the tongue and 72 00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:38.879 the fan. I remember the guy eating the bicycle. 73 00:04:39.160 --> 00:04:43.439 We coined the expression don't try this at home. So 74 00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:47.000 I hope you paid attention, Jonathan. I see your tongue 75 00:04:47.040 --> 00:04:51.720 is still functioning. That's good. That's a good sign. But yeah, 76 00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:56.160 the bicycle guy, he wanted to eat a helicopter for us, 77 00:04:56.240 --> 00:05:01.319 and ultimately our budget didn't allow for that because he 78 00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:04.519 could eat a pound of metal every day, but it 79 00:05:04.519 --> 00:05:08.360 would have taken him months and we just couldn't afford 80 00:05:08.399 --> 00:05:11.720 to film and check in with him. His name was 81 00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:16.399 Michelle Lo Tito, but he was known as Monsieur monge 82 00:05:16.439 --> 00:05:22.079 too or mister eats All. Unfortunately he's no longer with us. 83 00:05:22.120 --> 00:05:26.680 I know that's a shocking revelation, but I do believe 84 00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:31.680 he ended up eating a small cessna for another umpany 85 00:05:32.279 --> 00:05:35.399 and if you go on YouTube you can find that material. 86 00:05:36.199 --> 00:05:38.480 So that's today's hot tip. So it sounds like you're 87 00:05:39.160 --> 00:05:42.079 really energized about this stuff still. So to Joey's question 88 00:05:42.120 --> 00:05:44.360 about what has kept you going, I think it maybe 89 00:05:44.439 --> 00:05:48.160 is just sort of the novelty, the excitement, the curiosity, 90 00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:51.959 the just the whole package. 91 00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:57.000 All of the above. It's joy. It's whatever you're doing, 92 00:05:57.319 --> 00:06:02.199 do it well and have fun with it. So I've 93 00:06:02.199 --> 00:06:05.600 been blessed. I've met a lot of people. I've done 94 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:10.120 serious projects, you know, when you do a film about 95 00:06:10.199 --> 00:06:14.040 Hitler and the Holocaust, Believe me, that's not easy. And 96 00:06:14.079 --> 00:06:17.759 then I've done silly projects, you know. The Richard Simmons 97 00:06:17.759 --> 00:06:22.519 Show was one that I did. And so I've had 98 00:06:22.600 --> 00:06:29.040 forty three years of truly running the gamut on programming, 99 00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:32.279 and I've just had fun and brought a sense of 100 00:06:32.759 --> 00:06:36.519 fun and joy and adventure to everything I do. 101 00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:40.199 As you're alluding to, the first documentary feature you produced 102 00:06:40.439 --> 00:06:43.800 was Adolf Hitler, Man and Myth, for which he traveled 103 00:06:43.839 --> 00:06:47.439 throughout American and Europe, interviewing Holocaust survivors as well as 104 00:06:47.439 --> 00:06:51.639 members of Hitler's inner circle. You later produced The Unfinished 105 00:06:51.639 --> 00:06:54.759 Civil War, for which he traveled across the American South, 106 00:06:55.160 --> 00:06:59.639 tracing contemporary racism to the Civil War. Did you develop 107 00:06:59.680 --> 00:07:03.439 in each tricks for staying objective while investigating these very 108 00:07:03.480 --> 00:07:08.879 sensitive topics? For starters, I changed my name Kirshbaum, felt 109 00:07:08.879 --> 00:07:13.560 a little ethnic, so I went with Glenn King, and 110 00:07:15.480 --> 00:07:22.839 the tricks were, let me see survival techniques, you know, 111 00:07:23.040 --> 00:07:26.959 to to try to wait when you're interviewing. I mean, 112 00:07:26.959 --> 00:07:29.439 this was the last We were traveling with this horrible 113 00:07:29.480 --> 00:07:33.800 man named David Irvitt, who is a revisionist. He's still alive, 114 00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:38.800 but he had access to the last surviving Nazis. 115 00:07:38.839 --> 00:07:44.079 So we interviewed Hitler's pilot and Ava Bron's best friend, 116 00:07:44.319 --> 00:07:50.040 and his last surviving doctor and his adjutant, and we 117 00:07:50.079 --> 00:07:54.639 would feeld horrible questions. You know, people would ask me, 118 00:07:55.399 --> 00:07:57.720 is this film you're doing going to be a positive 119 00:07:57.839 --> 00:08:01.480 or negative depiction of the furor? And and so you 120 00:08:01.600 --> 00:08:06.319 learned to just say, you know, in that case We're 121 00:08:06.319 --> 00:08:07.959 not going to take a point of view. We're going 122 00:08:08.040 --> 00:08:11.680 to let the audience make up their minds. So you know, 123 00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:14.199 we tried. I mean, ultimately, I knew that I was 124 00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:18.040 going to be editing and writing and putting the film together, 125 00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:22.319 so it was okay, you know, for these people to 126 00:08:22.399 --> 00:08:26.199 say horrific things on camera, like you know, the fact 127 00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:29.279 that Hitler was only doing what was best for Germany, 128 00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:32.679 and you learned to just sit there and you know, 129 00:08:32.759 --> 00:08:36.320 you can question. But at the same time, you know, 130 00:08:36.399 --> 00:08:39.000 these are eighty five ninety year old people. They're not 131 00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:41.879 going to change their mind, you know, on camera speaking 132 00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:47.240 with me. But you know, again I knew, and you 133 00:08:47.240 --> 00:08:50.759 know now that we interviewed Simon Wisenthal, we interviewed you know, 134 00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:56.679 you know, people who were in the Roosevelt administration, you know, 135 00:08:57.039 --> 00:09:00.720 and so we had access. When you say you're doing 136 00:09:00.720 --> 00:09:03.519 a project for the History Channel, you can pretty much 137 00:09:03.559 --> 00:09:06.120 get anyone on the phone, you know, for the Unfinished 138 00:09:06.120 --> 00:09:10.559 Civil War. In the same week that I interviewed David Duke, 139 00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:15.440 I interviewed Martin Luther King the Third So you can't 140 00:09:15.480 --> 00:09:20.080 get more polar opposites. But I try to be honest. 141 00:09:20.399 --> 00:09:23.440 I try to be fair. I try to let people take, 142 00:09:23.759 --> 00:09:29.240 you know, express themselves, and yeah, in the end, you 143 00:09:29.320 --> 00:09:32.679 do want the audience to make up their own mind 144 00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:39.480 on you know, we've presented you with information and hopefully 145 00:09:40.200 --> 00:09:41.919 you know, I mean, we live at a time that 146 00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:44.600 you know, there's a lot of people who say the 147 00:09:44.639 --> 00:09:47.799 Holocaust never happened, you know, So I really did see 148 00:09:47.799 --> 00:09:52.759 it as a responsibility to present this material. And yeah, 149 00:09:52.799 --> 00:09:55.399 it was very difficult when you're in a community in 150 00:09:55.440 --> 00:09:58.399 Germany and you're told everyone in this community is a 151 00:09:58.440 --> 00:10:02.559 retired SS. Believe me, that's a difficult situation to put 152 00:10:02.600 --> 00:10:08.000 yourself in. But I came back from that experience basically 153 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:12.000 believing that I can do anything, and that's been my philosophy, 154 00:10:12.639 --> 00:10:15.600 you know, for the last thirty years of programming. 155 00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:20.879 Enjoining the show, click like and subscribe. Speaking of staying objective, 156 00:10:21.159 --> 00:10:24.120 you wrote for several seasons on the long running documentary 157 00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:29.279 series Unsolved Mysteries, which frequently explored paranormal events. How did 158 00:10:29.320 --> 00:10:32.159 you go about making these unbelievable stories seem believable? 159 00:10:32.480 --> 00:10:37.240 Well, I think, and this was we had just won 160 00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:40.519 a couple of Emmy Awards for the Hitler documentary and 161 00:10:40.879 --> 00:10:44.080 Unsolved Mysteries was looking for a new writer, so my 162 00:10:44.159 --> 00:10:47.519 timing was perfect, and I was looking for something that 163 00:10:47.679 --> 00:10:54.240 was a little less taxing on me and so Unsolved 164 00:10:54.320 --> 00:10:58.600 Mysteries the way we made it believable. I mean, you're 165 00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:02.919 going to have people telling these amazing stories of whether 166 00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:09.879 it's ghostly encounters or UFO encounters or experiencing life after death. 167 00:11:10.559 --> 00:11:14.399 So again, we let people tell their stories. You know, 168 00:11:14.720 --> 00:11:19.120 I was writing whatever Robert Staff would say, so you know, 169 00:11:19.279 --> 00:11:22.600 you would find little secrets like saying, you know, there 170 00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:27.519 were those who believe, or some say or it's been said, 171 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:30.200 and you know, it might be some schmuck living in 172 00:11:30.200 --> 00:11:33.159 a trailer who said it, but at least someone did 173 00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:36.159 say it. We were honest in what we were saying. 174 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:41.399 But these were fascinating stories, and at the same time, 175 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:46.559 I really felt good about what we're doing. Because Unsolved Mysteries, 176 00:11:47.200 --> 00:11:50.000 I think it was over one hundred and fifty bad 177 00:11:50.080 --> 00:11:54.840 guys were found because of our show. We would do stories, 178 00:11:55.879 --> 00:12:00.200 you know, on these terrible crimes where we were looking 179 00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:05.120 for the perpetrators and you can reach, you know, tens 180 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:07.600 of millions of people with a show like this, and 181 00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:11.200 it's truly amazing. I can't remember what I had for breakfast. 182 00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:17.240 But we would put stories on the air and someone 183 00:12:17.240 --> 00:12:20.440 would say, you know, I rented skis from that guy 184 00:12:21.240 --> 00:12:25.360 fourteen years ago. He's living in New Hampshire. And we 185 00:12:25.399 --> 00:12:29.679 would solve cases that way, and so it was a 186 00:12:29.840 --> 00:12:33.960 very rewarding experience. I mean, the little known, you know 187 00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:39.320 secret is that many times the actors who were in 188 00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:43.080 the re enactments, they would get arrested or they well, 189 00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:47.159 someone would finger saying I know that guy. Well it's like, yeah, 190 00:12:47.159 --> 00:12:50.480 that was the actor that wasn't the bad guy, and 191 00:12:51.320 --> 00:12:56.279 so I will say this we Matthew McConaughey, who later 192 00:12:56.679 --> 00:13:00.360 you know, became a very famous Hollywood actor, is very 193 00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:04.799 first acting gig was in an episode of Unsolved Mysteries 194 00:13:06.159 --> 00:13:09.799 down in Texas, and the director came back and said, 195 00:13:10.399 --> 00:13:13.720 this guy was a character, and he insisted on doing 196 00:13:13.759 --> 00:13:17.840 his scenes with his shirt off. And that was Matthew. 197 00:13:17.919 --> 00:13:21.600 And you can go on YouTube and see those clips. 198 00:13:22.120 --> 00:13:25.600 But he was great, and that experience was great. 199 00:13:25.919 --> 00:13:31.159 Come with me and you'll be in a world of 200 00:13:31.639 --> 00:13:39.679 your imagination, heybo, and you'll see himTo your imagination. 201 00:13:41.200 --> 00:13:44.600 I was really surprised when I watched remembering Gene Wilder 202 00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:48.960 and heard Wilder, who died in twenty sixteen, narrating the 203 00:13:49.080 --> 00:13:52.240 movie by way of an audiobook recording of his two 204 00:13:52.279 --> 00:13:56.039 thousand and five memoir Kissed Me Like a Stranger. This 205 00:13:56.200 --> 00:13:58.639 was an effective choice and it gave me and I'm 206 00:13:58.679 --> 00:14:03.600 sure others the feels. As they say, how did you 207 00:14:03.679 --> 00:14:07.840 go about crafting the narrative of this movie? Well, well, 208 00:14:07.879 --> 00:14:12.639 first of all, we felt very fortunate to have Jean's 209 00:14:12.679 --> 00:14:15.960 audio audio recording that that was made available to us 210 00:14:16.360 --> 00:14:20.360 by his widow, Karen, who worked with us closely throughout 211 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:22.039 the film. 212 00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:23.440 You know, the. 213 00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:29.039 Having Jean's voice added a real sense. You almost felt 214 00:14:29.080 --> 00:14:31.919 like he was in the editing bay with us making 215 00:14:31.960 --> 00:14:37.080 the film. And and so what I did as the 216 00:14:37.080 --> 00:14:40.919 writer of the film, you know, we would listen to 217 00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:46.240 what was important to Jeane, what made his book. He 218 00:14:46.279 --> 00:14:48.639 would do all sorts of interviews on the Mike Douglas 219 00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:53.399 Show to Cavitt, merv Griffin, and if he would would 220 00:14:53.399 --> 00:14:57.879 repeat a story several times. For instance, he talked about 221 00:14:57.879 --> 00:15:01.320 the fact that his mother had heart condition when he 222 00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:05.679 was eight, and his mother's doctor went to young Jean 223 00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:11.519 and said, whatever you do, don't upset your mother, you 224 00:15:11.559 --> 00:15:15.759 could kill her make her laugh. Well, this was amazing 225 00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:19.000 pressure to put on an eight year old child. But 226 00:15:19.279 --> 00:15:23.039 and I think it created some of who Jane later became. 227 00:15:23.159 --> 00:15:28.159 He would keep things bottled up and they would explode later, 228 00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:31.440 and it made for you know, great characters, you know, 229 00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:37.399 whether it was Leo Bloom or you know, Doctor Frankens, Frackenstein, Frokenstein, whatever. 230 00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:44.840 But having Jean's voice, having his biography, knowing what was 231 00:15:44.919 --> 00:15:48.799 important to him, that gave us a lot of insight 232 00:15:48.919 --> 00:15:52.919 into who he was. Plus we had great interviews with 233 00:15:53.039 --> 00:15:57.120 mel Brooks and Carol Caine and Alan Alden, people who 234 00:15:57.879 --> 00:16:02.799 knew Gene intimately. And if there would be times that 235 00:16:02.840 --> 00:16:08.039 mel Brooks would give us rich material that also could 236 00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:12.720 be intercut with Jane's telling of the same story that 237 00:16:12.759 --> 00:16:17.759 went into the film. For instance, their only argument on 238 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:24.080 Young Frankenstein was Jeane wanted put none the rits. He 239 00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:28.639 wanted Doctor Frankenstein to be up on stage with the monster, 240 00:16:29.279 --> 00:16:32.200 you know, doing a song and dance number. And mel 241 00:16:32.279 --> 00:16:35.639 thought that was a ridiculous idea and hated it and 242 00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:40.440 fought him tooth and nail, and finally when he saw 243 00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:44.799 how badly Jean wanted that scene in the film. He 244 00:16:44.840 --> 00:16:49.080 relented and said, Okay, it's yours, and in our film, 245 00:16:49.279 --> 00:16:52.000 Mel ends up saying, you know, that was the best 246 00:16:52.039 --> 00:16:56.080 part of the entire film. Geene was right. So hearing 247 00:16:56.120 --> 00:17:01.120 those two men talk about that scene, or hearing Alan 248 00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:05.880 all to talk about the Abby Normal scene, we just 249 00:17:05.960 --> 00:17:08.400 knew these are things that are going into our film. 250 00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:12.680 I mean, if you get someone talking about one of 251 00:17:12.720 --> 00:17:17.599 our favorite moments of the producers, you know, or Blazing Saddles, 252 00:17:18.279 --> 00:17:21.000 it was going to go in there. So we wanted 253 00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:24.799 to create a lot a laugh fest, and hopefully we succeeded. 254 00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:30.880 Yeah, it's a love fest as well, really beautifully executed. 255 00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:35.160 I've always wondered why it is that in Young Frankenstein, 256 00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:38.960 I think that's the only mel Brooks directed somebody that 257 00:17:39.079 --> 00:17:41.960 he himself does not appear in. And I heard that 258 00:17:42.039 --> 00:17:44.119 it was because Gene Wilder didn't want him to be 259 00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:46.640 in the movie. I don't know if you know any 260 00:17:46.680 --> 00:17:48.319 of this inside baseball stuff. 261 00:17:48.599 --> 00:17:52.160 Absolutely, yeah, no man. Mel admits that Mel says it 262 00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:56.759 on camera in our film that Jean said I want 263 00:17:56.839 --> 00:18:01.200 you to It was Jeane's idea. He was like, Mel, 264 00:18:01.240 --> 00:18:03.160 I want you to co write with me. I want 265 00:18:03.160 --> 00:18:06.200 you to direct, and I don't want you in the film. 266 00:18:06.599 --> 00:18:09.240 And I think probably because. 267 00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:10.480 Mel is so big. 268 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:14.759 Mel is so broad, you know, in Blazing Saddles, he 269 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:18.519 you know, his subtlety is. 270 00:18:18.440 --> 00:18:18.759 Not his. 271 00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:24.680 Strong suit. And so I'm sure Jean just felt that 272 00:18:24.799 --> 00:18:27.440 he would lose control of the film if Mel was 273 00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:29.680 in it. And I think ultimately it was the right call. 274 00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:34.880 And we love Mel Mel. Mel was great. Mel has 275 00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:38.119 been promoting our film. Mel introduced it at the La 276 00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:43.720 Jewish Film Festival where we debuted, and he tweeted how 277 00:18:43.799 --> 00:18:47.400 much he loved the film and it was amazing. It 278 00:18:47.559 --> 00:18:51.920 two million eyeballs on Mel's tweet. And when we opened, 279 00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:55.200 we had lines up and down Wilshire Boulevard at the 280 00:18:55.240 --> 00:19:00.200 Saban Theater and people laughing. At the opening credits. We 281 00:19:00.200 --> 00:19:03.599 were like, oh my god, we're sitting on gold here. 282 00:19:04.359 --> 00:19:07.119 And just to give you an idea of how excited 283 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:09.640 we are, we ended up winning. First of all, we 284 00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:12.680 pitched it to Netflix and they said no, they said, 285 00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:17.319 really good film, not right for our audience, and we 286 00:19:17.599 --> 00:19:21.039 then went the film festival route. We ended up winning 287 00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:26.920 nine festivals. Keno Lauber asked they wanted to distribute the film. 288 00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:30.359 They opened it up in one hundred and fifty theaters nationwide. 289 00:19:30.680 --> 00:19:33.920 It was held over in LA in New York, in Boston. 290 00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:37.920 It did incredibly well. Netflix came back to us and 291 00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:41.960 said we want the film, and it applied into number 292 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:48.599 five on Netflix. So yeah, it was an incredibly rewarding experience. 293 00:19:48.839 --> 00:19:52.440 And you know, I don't want to call it vindication, 294 00:19:53.240 --> 00:19:56.160 but it just goes to show if you have a 295 00:19:56.240 --> 00:19:59.759 belief in what you're doing, go for it. You know, 296 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:04.960 well doublet a little rejection, you know, make you feel 297 00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:08.319 that you're raw. We knew we were making a sweet film, 298 00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:12.200 a loving film, a celebration of someone who brought so 299 00:20:12.279 --> 00:20:15.039 much joy into the lives of those of us who 300 00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:20.440 you know, grew up in the seventies. And I'm thrilled that, 301 00:20:21.079 --> 00:20:24.000 you know, it's now there's a whole new audience. You know, 302 00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:27.640 my son is seventeen. He's told all of his friends 303 00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:31.440 and I'm now coming to their classroom, you know, to 304 00:20:31.480 --> 00:20:34.880 give a lecture about Gene Wilder to these seventeen year 305 00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:40.759 olds and they're all big fans. So it's great. I'm 306 00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:43.279 feeling so good about that film and the way things 307 00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:43.799 worked out. 308 00:20:44.200 --> 00:20:48.720 Yeah, that initial rejection from Netflix has me wondering, what 309 00:20:48.759 --> 00:20:52.079 does Netflix think their audience is. I mean, that's kind 310 00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:54.799 of a weird thing to say. Meanwhile, they have the 311 00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:59.279 Arnold Schwarzenegger documentary on there and other things. I mean, 312 00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:02.720 it's kind of strange just even try to wrap your 313 00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:06.759 head around what they meant by isn't right for our audience. 314 00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:10.319 Maybe they felt it skewed too old, you know, I 315 00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:14.880 don't know. No one likes to say that, but maybe 316 00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:19.880 that was the thinking. I just think we have a responsibility. 317 00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:23.599 If people did good in the world, and Gene Wilder 318 00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:28.319 did good, it's let's celebrate those people, you know, and 319 00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:33.480 and and you know, I'm so glad Rotten Tomatoes we've 320 00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:35.480 got I think eighty six percent positive. 321 00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:39.400 And the few people who have criticized us have said, well, 322 00:21:39.440 --> 00:21:43.200 you didn't talk about his disasters, you didn't talk about 323 00:21:43.240 --> 00:21:47.519 his you know, his failures. Well, you know what, that 324 00:21:47.640 --> 00:21:49.519 wasn't the film we were making. We were making a 325 00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:53.960 film that was people who knew Gene, who loved Jean, 326 00:21:54.440 --> 00:21:57.839 who wanted to sing his praises, And that was the 327 00:21:57.880 --> 00:22:00.279 film that we made. If someone wants to make a 328 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:04.160 film that trashes Gene Wilder. God love them, but that 329 00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:05.599 wasn't our intention. 330 00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:08.759 Gene Wilder's humanity really comes across in his relationship with 331 00:22:08.839 --> 00:22:12.559 Richard Pryor. The two actors had amazing chemistry on screen 332 00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:15.559 in Silver Streak, See No Evil, Here, No Evil, and 333 00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:17.680 a couple other movies, but they didn't have much of 334 00:22:17.680 --> 00:22:20.759 a friendship off screen. Pryor was diagnosed with MS in 335 00:22:20.839 --> 00:22:23.960 nineteen eighty six, and Wilder was very sensitive to this 336 00:22:24.400 --> 00:22:27.279 and helped Pryor through their scenes together in very subtle 337 00:22:27.319 --> 00:22:29.720 and gentle ways. What does this tell us about Gene 338 00:22:29.720 --> 00:22:30.599 Wilder as a person. 339 00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:37.119 Gene Wilder was a mensch and we heard this over 340 00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:41.759 and over and over from everyone we interviewed. They did 341 00:22:41.799 --> 00:22:45.400 not have a negative word to say about him. And 342 00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:50.960 among those people was Rain Pryor, Richard Pryor's daughter, who 343 00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:54.240 was on the set of See No Evil, Here No Evil, 344 00:22:55.599 --> 00:23:00.640 and which is when Richard had MS, and she knew 345 00:23:01.319 --> 00:23:05.599 that Jeane had gone out of his way. Yes, they 346 00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:10.599 were not friends off camera, you know, Richard when they 347 00:23:10.599 --> 00:23:13.839 were making Soaper Streak, he stayed in a separate hotel 348 00:23:14.039 --> 00:23:19.240 he had, he was drinking, he was doing drugs. It 349 00:23:19.559 --> 00:23:24.759 was not conducive to making a comedy to showing up. 350 00:23:24.920 --> 00:23:27.920 He was showing up late on the set. You know, 351 00:23:28.039 --> 00:23:35.599 he was difficult and and you know it didn't take 352 00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:42.359 away from the finished product, but it was sad. Here 353 00:23:42.440 --> 00:23:47.039 was a man who was was hurting himself. And and 354 00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:51.160 so when Jean and they ended up, you know, doing 355 00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:55.000 four films together. By the time Richard was sick. You know, 356 00:23:55.279 --> 00:23:58.359 Jeane went out of his way to show love and 357 00:23:58.400 --> 00:24:05.079 compassion and understand and Richard so appreciated that. And you know, 358 00:24:05.160 --> 00:24:09.200 I think that by the end they did become dear friends. 359 00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:13.960 But early on, you know, it was guys from different 360 00:24:14.200 --> 00:24:17.920 I mean, it was one of the first buddy films 361 00:24:17.920 --> 00:24:22.079 that had an African American actor and a Caucasian actor 362 00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:28.640 together in teaming up. And you know, the partnership was hysterical. 363 00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:31.759 I mean, they played off each other beautifully. But yes, 364 00:24:31.799 --> 00:24:34.519 that was surprising to us to hear that they were 365 00:24:34.559 --> 00:24:38.279 not friends off camera, at least not during their first 366 00:24:38.279 --> 00:24:39.279 two films together. 367 00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:45.039 That ability of Gene Wilder to have that very intimate, 368 00:24:45.160 --> 00:24:49.160 very organic relationship with an African American partner, I mean 369 00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:52.400 we see this in Blazing Saddles with clevand little as well. 370 00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:57.440 What was his sort of engagement with African American culture 371 00:24:57.759 --> 00:24:59.440 growing up? Do you have any sense of that? 372 00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:03.079 You know, grew up in Milwaukee. Uh, went to the 373 00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:06.839 University of Iowa. You know, Quite honestly, I don't think 374 00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:12.079 he had much of a you know, interaction with African 375 00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:16.359 but he was he was raised with with a decency. 376 00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:21.519 His grandfather was the president of their show. And he 377 00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:26.119 had a real sense of Yiddish kite, you know. And 378 00:25:26.119 --> 00:25:31.279 and I think his decency, of course extended to when 379 00:25:31.359 --> 00:25:35.519 he met Cleveland and you know Blazing Saddles. Mel tells us, 380 00:25:35.839 --> 00:25:41.119 you know in the interview that film was an anti 381 00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:44.920 racism film. You know, even though the N word is 382 00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:49.440 thrown around, and and and you know, the townspeople in 383 00:25:49.519 --> 00:25:51.759 the townspeople, let's be honest, are made to look like 384 00:25:51.799 --> 00:25:56.200 a bunch of schmucks. You know. But you know, Mel, 385 00:25:57.000 --> 00:25:59.799 God loved him. He told us in his interview that, 386 00:26:00.799 --> 00:26:03.359 you know, he made the film he wanted to make. 387 00:26:03.720 --> 00:26:06.200 You know, the executives had Wanner Brothers had given him 388 00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:11.119 three instructions. They said, you know, no N word, no 389 00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:15.920 punching of horses, and no and no farting and Mel said, 390 00:26:16.359 --> 00:26:19.359 no problem, you won't see any of that, and of 391 00:26:19.400 --> 00:26:23.519 course he kept it all in and and that's how Mel. 392 00:26:23.720 --> 00:26:25.960 You know, we can all learn from that. Sometimes you 393 00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:30.880 have to stick to what you know works. And yeah, 394 00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:33.559 that was blazing saddle. So that the same thing happened 395 00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:38.480 in The Producers, where the executive producer wanted to get 396 00:26:38.519 --> 00:26:41.960 rid of Gene Wilder after seeing the first dailies, and 397 00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:46.279 Mel said, okay, he's gone, and then never released him 398 00:26:46.279 --> 00:26:49.880 and ultimately kept shooting and kept the executive producer away 399 00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:52.559 until it became obvious he said, I can't get rid 400 00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:55.240 of him. He's done half the film so and the 401 00:26:55.279 --> 00:26:59.160