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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number four thirty eight.
Speaker 1: Your dream doesn't have an expiration date, Take a deep
Speaker 1: breath and try again. Kat You Whitten.
Speaker 2: Broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in Hollywood when we
Speaker 2: really should be working on that next draft. It's the
Speaker 2: Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and business of
Speaker 2: screenwriting while teaching you how to make your screenplay bulletproof.
Speaker 1: And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another
Speaker 1: episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. I am your.
Speaker 3: Humble host Alex Ferrari.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 1: Today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof Script Coverage. Now. Unlike
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Speaker 1: Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.
Speaker 3: So, my guest today is a literary manager and script
Speaker 3: consultant and she runs her own consulting agency. And we
Speaker 3: discussed that very question, what does it take to make
Speaker 3: it to the next level? And we all know what
Speaker 3: that next level is, and that's all really very subjective,
Speaker 3: and I want to make sure everyone knows that because
Speaker 3: if you know, if you have a reader script for
Speaker 3: your next level is writing a script. If you've written
Speaker 3: ten scripts in your next levels, you want to get representation,
Speaker 3: you have representation in your next level? Is you want
Speaker 3: to get it made by an A list cast and crew.
Speaker 3: Sounds simple, right with guests Whitney Davis, Hey, Whitney, thanks
Speaker 3: a lot for coming on the show.
Speaker 4: Hey, thank you for having me.
Speaker 3: You know, my my pleasure. You know, it's funny we
Speaker 3: were trying to get a hold each other for a while. Now,
Speaker 3: who would you just keep missing each other? But I'm
Speaker 3: so glad we could finally connect because you know, I
Speaker 3: saw your bio and you have a really really cool bio,
Speaker 3: and I said, I got to get Whitney on the podcast.
Speaker 4: Well thanks.
Speaker 5: It's been quite a journey, that.
Speaker 4: Is for sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I actually wanted to ask about that journey,
Speaker 3: and I wanted to ask, you know, Whitney, how did
Speaker 3: you get started, you know, in the whole literary management business,
Speaker 3: and how did you get involved in the consulting business.
Speaker 3: So basically what I'm asking is where did this whole
Speaker 3: journey start?
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, this crazy story.
Speaker 5: And to make it short, because it obviously has been
Speaker 5: a ten year journey. Essentially, I was in the right
Speaker 5: place at the right time, with the right person.
Speaker 4: Is how this whole journey started.
Speaker 5: About ten years ago, I had moved to Los Angeles
Speaker 5: with zero aspirations to be.
Speaker 4: In the entertainment in the three It wasn't even really.
Speaker 5: On my radar, and I had always thought I was
Speaker 5: going to be a novelist. Actually that if I ever
Speaker 5: really sat down and put pen to paper, which I
Speaker 5: think is something that a lot of people struggle with
Speaker 5: actually getting started. That if I ever actually got started
Speaker 5: that I was going to write a book.
Speaker 4: And I was actually at a party.
Speaker 5: And this woman approached me and I didn't know who
Speaker 5: she was or what she did, and she asked me
Speaker 5: what I was doing was myself and I was like, well,
Speaker 5: I'm actually raising a baby. And she's like, but no, honey, really,
Speaker 5: I mean, what do you want to do? And I
Speaker 5: was like, well, you know, maybe I'll write a book,
Speaker 5: And so she started asking me about it, and when
Speaker 5: I told her about this concept for my book, her
Speaker 5: face just dropped and she was like, I'm going to
Speaker 5: have my assistant contact to you tomorrow.
Speaker 4: And I was like, what is that?
Speaker 5: And so her assistant actually did come over the next day,
Speaker 5: and I kid you not, this never happens. That was
Speaker 5: a stack of TV pilot screeners like DVDs and a
Speaker 5: stack of TV pilots and they said, forget your book.
Speaker 5: Concepts were turning it into an original television series. And
Speaker 5: she happened to be a TV lit agent with William
Speaker 5: Morris at the time. And so that is how I
Speaker 5: got my start and to segue into the other part
Speaker 5: of it. You know, I started in the television business,
Speaker 5: and then the ryer strike happened, and so people started
Speaker 5: Once I was out of work, people started bringing me
Speaker 5: their scripts just being like, hey, can you look this
Speaker 5: over since you already kind of broke in, And I.
Speaker 4: Was like sure, and so I did it for free
Speaker 4: for a while because they didn't know any better.
Speaker 5: And then I was like, maybe I should charge and
Speaker 5: people will go away, and then it just got worse
Speaker 5: and so I just did script development for a long
Speaker 5: time and then crazy enough again, this just organically occurred.
Speaker 5: Some of my clients that were starting to do well
Speaker 5: in the contest asked if I would consider managing them,
Speaker 5: and I said no for a long time, and then
Speaker 5: it was just like I was actually already kind of
Speaker 5: orchestrating meetings, and so I finally just said what the heck,
Speaker 5: and I just jumped in with both feet.
Speaker 4: So that is how I got to where I am today,
Speaker 4: in a nutshell, very crazy.
Speaker 3: So when you when you first moved to LA, was
Speaker 3: there a reason that you moved to LA Because I
Speaker 3: know you said you didn't want to be in the
Speaker 3: entertainment business at that point.
Speaker 5: So my husband at the time, he was there for
Speaker 5: grad school and so he had come to UCLA to.
Speaker 4: Get his master's degree.
Speaker 5: And I actually had applied to be an English teacher
Speaker 5: at Santa Monica High School, but then I found out
Speaker 5: I was pregnant. So I just decided the baby was
Speaker 5: coming in December, which was going to be in the
Speaker 5: middle of the years.
Speaker 4: I just actually decided not to teach at all.
Speaker 5: And again, like it was just the perfect timing that, right,
Speaker 5: you know, right after the baby was born and I
Speaker 5: was kind of had my feet back, you know, up
Speaker 5: again that I ran into this woman and started developing
Speaker 5: my TV series and all that. So it was just
Speaker 5: and it was hilarious because I was so green, I
Speaker 5: didn't know anything.
Speaker 4: Like I was just like, oh, this is kind of cool.
Speaker 5: But now looking back on it, I'm like, oh, my gosh,
Speaker 5: what an amazing opportunity.
Speaker 4: Like people would have killed to be in my position.
Speaker 5: And I was just kind of like doodling along like
Speaker 5: it was no big deal. But now looking back at is,
Speaker 5: I'm like, Wow, what an amazing you know, what an
Speaker 5: amazing blessing and opportunities to just not have been afraid,
Speaker 5: you know, I just didn't know anything, and I wasn't jaded,
Speaker 5: so I wasn't afraid to open up my mouth and say,
Speaker 5: oh yeah, here's my idea.
Speaker 4: And I essentially pitched her without knowing I was pitching her.
Speaker 5: So that's what I always tell people, that they just
Speaker 5: need to do their pitches. You know, when they pitch,
Speaker 5: they just need to do their pitches like they're having
Speaker 5: a conversation, because whoever they're pitching is just a human
Speaker 5: being like you and me. All they want is to
Speaker 5: hear a great story. And I think people get really
Speaker 5: nervous at the thought of pitching. But you know, the
Speaker 5: other person listening to your pitch isn't like a unicorn,
Speaker 5: like they just you know, they're just a regular human
Speaker 5: who wants to find material.
Speaker 4: And so I just say, hey, the best way to
Speaker 4: pitch is just having a conversation.
Speaker 5: You know, that's the best, the best advice I can
Speaker 5: give on that, because that's how it happened for me.
Speaker 5: It didn't even know it that it was happening, so
Speaker 5: it was great.
Speaker 3: It's like what Dan Harmon said about you know, he
Speaker 3: gave advice to pitching, and his advice was have you
Speaker 3: He said when you ever when you're ever going out
Speaker 3: there and you tell your friends about some movie and
Speaker 3: they go, oh, should I see that movie? And and
Speaker 3: you say yeah, And then your friends says, well what happens? Well, okay,
Speaker 3: let me tell you what happens in the movie. He
Speaker 3: says that, right there is how you should pitch to people.
Speaker 3: He goes, just just telling them about this really cool thing.
Speaker 5: Yes, And I think that there's so much pressure these
Speaker 5: days for you know, how to pitch, and I really
Speaker 5: think there is no you know, formula if you would say,
Speaker 5: I mean, I think everybody's so individual that I just
Speaker 5: I mean, I did Great American Pitchfest in May, and
Speaker 5: I was really amazed. Like I sat and probably listened
Speaker 5: to one hundred and fifty pitches, and there was a
Speaker 5: real big difference to the ones who were pitching comfortable
Speaker 5: and like knwed their story well as opposed to those
Speaker 5: who were trying I felt like to follow a very
Speaker 5: formula pitch that like they're like like, I'm not doing this,
Speaker 5: and you know, I could just tell that they were
Speaker 5: tied up and am I giving them the right information
Speaker 5: in the right in the right sequence.
Speaker 4: I guess?
Speaker 5: So yeah, I mean that's just something that I really
Speaker 5: love to talk to people about is just pitching bravely,
Speaker 5: like not being afraid to just say what they want
Speaker 5: to say and not worrying about a formula or anything
Speaker 5: like that.
Speaker 4: So I love it.
Speaker 3: So are you Are you still working with that with
Speaker 3: the Asian manager?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 5: Actually, I mean we are still on great terms. But
Speaker 5: after the like I said, after the so we kind
Speaker 5: of went through the pitching process of pitching my series
Speaker 5: at the time, and they had married me. For a
Speaker 5: lot of writers that don't know this, I think that
Speaker 5: a lot of you know, getting into the TV industry
Speaker 5: is or any you know, whether it be feature or
Speaker 5: film or feature film or TV, it's just like really
Speaker 5: understanding the business aspect of being a writer. So you know,
Speaker 5: I was like, oh, I'm going to sell this pilot,
Speaker 5: blah blah blah. But really it was just, you know,
Speaker 5: when we went on our general meetings, they just wanted
Speaker 5: to see what kind of a writer I was and
Speaker 5: what my personality was, and so I thought I just
Speaker 5: had all of my expectations like turned upside down. So anyway,
Speaker 5: after we pitched it and I didn't it didn't get bought,
Speaker 5: but I got hired we went through that, and then
Speaker 5: once the once the writers strike happened and I had
Speaker 5: the baby and things were getting crazy, I just I
Speaker 5: decided to just go with the script consulting and we
Speaker 5: just kind of parted ways amicably. But it was just
Speaker 5: because I kind of decided not to go back into
Speaker 5: a writer's room per se, because it was just more
Speaker 5: amenable to being a mom doing this scripts consulting thing,
Speaker 5: and put I get so much.
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Speaker 5: Satisfact out of people, out of helping people develop their concepts.
Speaker 4: Look it really, I really love that.
Speaker 5: So I think that's line management was a natural segue
Speaker 5: for me because there's so much of that in managing
Speaker 5: someone and helping them, you know, get to the next
Speaker 5: level and developing their ideas and being a sounding board.
Speaker 5: So to answer question, no, I'm not with that agent anymore.
Speaker 5: But we you know, it just was a natural kind
Speaker 5: of break and we're still on great terms. And I
Speaker 5: fear every so often that she's a caa now.
Speaker 4: Actually so she even moved since then.
Speaker 3: But yeah, so you know, you brought about moving to
Speaker 3: the next level, you know, as you know, as some
Speaker 3: of the questions as you can see that came in Whitney,
Speaker 3: I think that's a hot button issue for a lot
Speaker 3: of people, is moving to that next level, you know,
Speaker 3: And so spoiler alert for everyone listening, that's some of
Speaker 3: the that's some of the questions that have come in.
Speaker 3: But but before we get before we get to that,
Speaker 3: I just want to ask, you know, Whitney, you know
Speaker 3: you have worked under people like Steve Kaplan and Jen Grasani,
Speaker 3: Lee jes Up by the way, they've all been on
Speaker 3: the podcast. It's them all. Well, so, so how did
Speaker 3: you end up working, you know, with a lot of
Speaker 3: these people in the field, because these are all, you know,
Speaker 3: well known people. Again you you've worked with Steve Kaplan,
Speaker 3: Jen Grassani, Lead Jessup, John Truby, Chris Voldler. You know,
Speaker 3: how did you end up working and meeting with all
Speaker 3: these people?
Speaker 4: You know what?
Speaker 5: Honestly, I sauce them out, Like I was just like,
Speaker 5: if I'm going to do this, and I want to
Speaker 5: learn and you know, learn from the best, and so
Speaker 5: I just made an effort, you know, to save like
Speaker 5: this is kind of in that journey where I was
Speaker 5: it was kind of this weird in between period where
Speaker 5: I was doing the scripture consulting and was kind of
Speaker 5: deciding like as I personally wanted, and I guess I'm
Speaker 5: kind of an entrepreneur in that degree, deciding if I
Speaker 5: wanted to take my career to the next levels and
Speaker 5: going into management, and so I just knew who the
Speaker 5: experts in the field were, and I was just like,
Speaker 5: you know what, I'm going to go. I'm going to
Speaker 5: find them out. I'm going to seek them out and
Speaker 5: find them and talk to them. And so essentially I
Speaker 5: just kind of made like a business plan that I
Speaker 5: was going to save up certain amounts of money and
Speaker 5: like invest in myself to go to their classes and
Speaker 5: meet them and start relationship with them. And so that
Speaker 5: I think is part of where why I am where
Speaker 5: I am today because I wasn't afraid and I was like,
Speaker 5: I'm going to do whatever it takes to just kind
Speaker 5: of get get in front of these people and meet
Speaker 5: them and talk to them, and so you know, and
Speaker 5: then it's start being crazy that like we I mean,
Speaker 5: it's such a small world. And now that I'm kind
Speaker 5: of getting into that world with them, like I see
Speaker 5: them everywhere, Like I was just with Jen and New York.
Speaker 5: We were doing a conference together and I see lead
Speaker 5: Jess up and like, I'm helping Steve with his comedy
Speaker 5: class in January. So, I mean, that's how I did
Speaker 5: it was I just took the initiative myself and went out,
Speaker 5: was like, I want to be associated with the people
Speaker 5: who know what they're doing, and I just took the
Speaker 5: initiative to go find them and to build relationship with them.
Speaker 4: Actually, so that's how it happened. I just wasn't afraid,
Speaker 4: I guess. So I hope that answers the question.
Speaker 3: So, I mean, you know, with the advent of the Internet,
Speaker 3: I think it's made you know, everything a little easier
Speaker 3: and a little harder at the same time. And one
Speaker 3: of the things that's made a little easier is finding
Speaker 3: these people because you know, all the people that we
Speaker 3: just mentioned, they all have websites, yes, and so did
Speaker 3: you did you find them through their websites or did
Speaker 3: you bump into them maybe at a conference Goop?
Speaker 4: You know, I bumped into him all at conferences.
Speaker 5: I mean I knew people in the industry and I
Speaker 5: had just been hearing about these people, and so like
Speaker 5: I either attended I.
Speaker 4: Mean I met them all in person.
Speaker 5: I made an effort and again this is hard if
Speaker 5: you're not local to LA, because a lot of the
Speaker 5: people are local to LA.
Speaker 4: But I made the.
Speaker 5: Effort to know, go to the conferences to make sure.
Speaker 5: I went up to them afterwards and spoke to them.
Speaker 5: And you know, now I really consider them friends and colleagues.
Speaker 4: So I just I mean, I was truthful.
Speaker 5: I was like, hey, like I want to I want
Speaker 5: to learn from you, like I want to know what
Speaker 5: to do. But for people who aren't local to LA,
Speaker 5: I mean all these people again, Lee, Steve, John Truby,
Speaker 5: Chris Vogeler, Robert McKee, you know, all of these people
Speaker 5: have I just say, the best thing that you can
Speaker 5: do is access their information. I mean they have podcasts,
Speaker 5: they have you know, online seminars, they have these things.
Speaker 5: Like these people know what it takes to get to
Speaker 5: the next level. I mean, they are the experts. And
Speaker 5: I say, if you can't meet them in person, like
Speaker 5: tweet at them, email them.
Speaker 4: You know, they do phone consults.
Speaker 5: They know that Lee does for sure, and like, just
Speaker 5: stoke up everything you can from them because they definitely
Speaker 5: they definitely know what they're doing. I do consults as well.
Speaker 5: So I mean, you know, you just I think you
Speaker 5: just got to put yourself out there and like make
Speaker 5: it known. Like I always tell the writers I work with,
Speaker 5: like make it known within the first five minutes of
Speaker 5: a conversation that you want to write and you want
Speaker 5: to do this and this is what your goal is. Like,
Speaker 5: I think it's important to speak that step out into
Speaker 5: the universe, to like let the world know, because it's
Speaker 5: like you don't speak it, how would anybody know it,
Speaker 5: you know what I mean. So I think there's a
Speaker 5: lot to making verbal commitments and letting people know that
Speaker 5: that's your goal because they can hold you accountable to
Speaker 5: it and.
Speaker 4: Ask can you know? So I think that that's an
Speaker 4: important aspect of a writing.
Speaker 3: Career, definitely. And I definitely think also, you know, finding
Speaker 3: out who you actually want to talk to and zeroing
Speaker 3: in on those people is really important as well, and
Speaker 3: in terms you.
Speaker 5: Know, in terms of like I think one of the
Speaker 5: questions that the guy asked there was a guy that
Speaker 5: was like, maybe he wasn't local to LA, but he
Speaker 5: asked about queering. He's like, is that my only option?
Speaker 5: Like I'm not in LA and like, you know, I
Speaker 5: always say, even if you can make one trip out
Speaker 5: to LA and go to like one of the big
Speaker 5: conferences like Great American Pitch Fest or Story Expo or
Speaker 5: like I know there's others that are like American Film
Speaker 5: Market or any of those things, Like so many people
Speaker 5: are at those and just even making face to face
Speaker 5: contact for five minutes and handing them your business card
Speaker 5: and making a contact, Like that's enough. There been in
Speaker 5: a itself to like send a query and like agents
Speaker 5: and managers show up to these things like to film
Speaker 5: festivals and all these things. But I think that a
Speaker 5: cold query can be a little hard and difficult in
Speaker 5: terms of taking things to the next level. But I'm
Speaker 5: just like, man, if you can invest and take one
Speaker 5: trip out to LA like a year, like it can
Speaker 5: do what and you go to the right event and
Speaker 5: you know, make sure you talk to the right people,
Speaker 5: like it can radically change the trajectory of your career.
Speaker 4: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: You know, we were talking about you know you you're
Speaker 3: you went to the management side, uh, you know of
Speaker 3: the business. And I wanted to ask your whitney, what
Speaker 3: are some of the things that you know that have
Speaker 3: if you have seen and that sort of like it is. Uh,
Speaker 3: That's what I'm trying to say, is sort of like
Speaker 3: a normal thing that you see, like the most common
Speaker 3: error screenwriters make. Because I was trying to say, oh.
Speaker 5: Gosh, you know, that's a really tough question, because I
Speaker 5: think everyone and obviously is so individual that I think
Speaker 5: that one of the common errors that will turn either
Speaker 5: an agent or a manager off is just the way
Speaker 5: in which they go about contacting them.
Speaker 4: Actually, like you really.
Speaker 5: Need to research the agent or manager that you're trying
Speaker 5: to talk to.
Speaker 4: I know that one of the.
Speaker 5: Big things among agent managers often if you're sending a
Speaker 5: query letter that you're sending to a lot of different people,
Speaker 5: a lot of times, like the person sending in either
Speaker 5: the query for their film or their TV show or
Speaker 5: their literary novel will sell the agent's name wrong or
Speaker 5: spell the manager's name wrong. And that is like the
Speaker 5: number one turnoff, Like you're not even paying attention to
Speaker 5: what you're doing, you know, So number one, I think
Speaker 5: you should paying attention to detail and showing that you're serious.
Speaker 5: I think another things that they look for, like which
Speaker 5: is crazy, is typos. They'll forgive them, but they're like
Speaker 5: if an email is just chock full of type. They're
Speaker 5: just like and people want to write like what is this?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 5: So things said, those detail oriented things are one of
Speaker 5: the things.
Speaker 4: The other thing is it's good to be.
Speaker 5: Persistent, Like I think it's always good to follow up
Speaker 5: with an agent or manager. But you have to understand
Speaker 5: that most agents and managers are absolutely drowning in either
Speaker 5: scripts or books to read, like drowning all the time,
Speaker 5: like you're always playing catch up. And so a major
Speaker 5: turn off is like if you tell someone, hey, thank
Speaker 5: you so much for submitting your script to your book,
Speaker 5: like expect you know, to hear from me in four
Speaker 5: to six weeks. And you know, an agent and amateur
Speaker 5: who really writer, who isn't aware of how things operate,
Speaker 5: They like, you know, they get antsy and they want
Speaker 5: to know.
Speaker 4: And I totally understand because I've been there.
Speaker 5: But if they start emailing like every day for every
Speaker 5: two days, which has.
Speaker 4: Totally happened, like have you have you read have you
Speaker 4: read my book? Have you read my script? Have you
Speaker 4: done this? Have you done that? Like or just I
Speaker 4: forget it, Like if.
Speaker 5: They can't be like you know, that absolutely tends to
Speaker 5: drive agents and managers crazy and they just you know,
Speaker 5: they won't respond, like they just won't.
Speaker 4: They're just like these people can't be patient, like I'm not,
Speaker 4: you know, I'm not.
Speaker 5: So I guess there's like I guess what I'm saying is,
Speaker 5: there's a there's a particular like Stanford protocol in terms
Speaker 5: I guess as behavior or general manners that those two
Speaker 5: minor things can be enough to turn an agent or
Speaker 5: a manager off, unfortunately.
Speaker 4: I think. So those are kind of my two two
Speaker 4: big things I think of, which aren't even which aren't even.
Speaker 5: Material related, which is like a whole other you know,
Speaker 5: which is a whole other thing. So those are like
Speaker 5: actionable items that people can look for, like don't send
Speaker 5: a query with typos, don't over you know, bother the
Speaker 5: agent's managers. And then there's the material side of things
Speaker 5: in terms of the content they send, which is like
Speaker 5: a whole different ballgames that we could.
Speaker 4: Talk about, but I don't know how much time we have.
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Speaker 3: No, that sounds great, you if if you have the time,
Speaker 3: I'd love to get into that. You've let them live.
Speaker 5: In terms is like you know, I think so to me,
Speaker 5: says super quick. I think in terms of the content
Speaker 5: people send, you know some people, you've got like two
Speaker 5: types of people. And I don't mean this negatively at all,
Speaker 5: but you've got your people who are just like, my
Speaker 5: show is great, it's completely original, it's the next.
Speaker 4: Blah blah blah, which is totally awful to say.
Speaker 5: People are like sometimes they're like, I'm the next jk
Speaker 5: Rowling or I'm the next Quentin Tarantino.
Speaker 4: It's like, don't you know, they'll say that.
Speaker 5: And there are things that it's like, do not compare
Speaker 5: yourself to the greatest you know people out there.
Speaker 4: That's just a no note.
Speaker 5: But in terms of like the material, like I think
Speaker 5: a lot of it is people just they want to
Speaker 5: be a writer. And I just tell people like sometimes
Speaker 5: it will come to me and they want to be managed,
Speaker 5: and I'm like, well, okay, let me see what you have.
Speaker 5: And really it comes to an aspect of like are
Speaker 5: these people ready to be is there material ready to
Speaker 5: be shopped?
Speaker 4: And the things that I look for to make sure
Speaker 4: that a material, you know.
Speaker 5: That a that a either a script or a TV
Speaker 5: show or a novel is ready to be shopped it's like,
Speaker 5: is this story structure there, because a lot of times
Speaker 5: it's like they don't even have like I'll read through
Speaker 5: it and like key components of what makes the story
Speaker 5: a story or missing, like there's no catalyst. It's like,
Speaker 5: what's the insiding incident in this story? Or you know,
Speaker 5: there is no Allah's lost moment where the character really
Speaker 5: comes to this deep dark place where they have to
Speaker 5: rise back to the top again.
Speaker 4: You know, is that's missing. It's like, you know, there's.
Speaker 5: Nothing I can't manage that now on my consulting developmental side, like, yes,
Speaker 5: that's what I'll work with you to fix. But in
Speaker 5: terms of you know, are you ready a lot of
Speaker 5: another thing that will kill you know, a story or
Speaker 5: something like that is really stilted dialogue. Unfortunately, dialogue is
Speaker 5: one of the hardest things to write, and when you're
Speaker 5: reading through a script, if it's really stilted or unnatural,
Speaker 5: that sense, that will turn an agent or a manager
Speaker 5: off when they're skimming through and reading. So you know,
Speaker 5: those are the things that I think you really have
Speaker 5: to pay attention to. And that's why the people like
Speaker 5: Vogler and Grissanti and John Truby are absolutely like amazing.
Speaker 5: Like Robert mckaye put a book out on dialogue and
Speaker 5: I read it, and I mean, this is my beniness
Speaker 5: and I like consider myself like pretty high up there.
Speaker 5: Not Robert McKee standard, but like you know, I know
Speaker 5: how to write dialogue and I read the book and
Speaker 5: I was like blown away.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's just so good to be reminded of
Speaker 4: this step.
Speaker 5: And I think people sometimes think that writing dialogue should
Speaker 5: be an innate ability, Like we all talk, so we
Speaker 5: all should be able to write that. But when you
Speaker 5: translate that to a script or to a book, it just,
Speaker 5: you know, it's hard. And so I think people the
Speaker 5: best thing that they can do for themselves is just
Speaker 5: practice daily read up on you know, techniques and ideas
Speaker 5: from the experts, and just don't give up because that
Speaker 5: and just keep working. And I think that that's like
Speaker 5: the best thing you can do. And how does someone
Speaker 5: read it before you send it to an agent or manager,
Speaker 5: like have it covered or have Jen Grassanti or Lee
Speaker 5: or me or someone you know take a look at it,
Speaker 5: because that really helps to have someone in industry that
Speaker 5: knows what is people want, know what's out there.
Speaker 4: To make sure you're on the right track. I mean,
Speaker 4: I think feed that can be invaluable if you get
Speaker 4: it from the right from the right source.
Speaker 3: And you know when I think a lot of times too.
Speaker 3: You know, when you send a script to a agent
Speaker 3: or a manager, usually it's going to go to their assistant, right,
Speaker 3: you know, it's going to have their assistant read it.
Speaker 3: And I think sometimes those assistants, you know, can this
Speaker 3: get easily? And I've heard different things. Sometimes they say
Speaker 3: they can easily just chuck your script, meaning if by
Speaker 3: the first page they can they can see if so okay,
Speaker 3: so that is right?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, no, Well you know what's the crazy thing
Speaker 4: is now for someone like.
Speaker 5: Me because I am a small boutique management firm, like
Speaker 5: it is me and one other person's I'm obviously not
Speaker 5: Circle as Confusion. I'm not you know, mad House. You know,
Speaker 5: I'm not you know CAA. I'm not one of these
Speaker 5: big things. So I actually read the scripts myself. But
Speaker 5: what is true is this, And this is the truth people,
Speaker 5: for those of you listening. The sad thing is this.
Speaker 5: It's like if you're at one of those big houses,
Speaker 5: and this is the problem. If an assistant or a
Speaker 5: reader reads the script and gives it a consider or
Speaker 5: you know, you know, pushes it on to their boss.
Speaker 5: You know, they spend you know, the assistant spent all
Speaker 5: weekend reading and if they say consider or that they're
Speaker 5: going to send it on to their boss, that means
Speaker 5: their boss, the manager itself, is going to take time
Speaker 5: out of their day or their weekend to read it.
Speaker 5: And if it sucks or it's awful and their assistant
Speaker 5: passed it on, guess what happens to that ass They're
Speaker 5: They're fired. It's so honestly, assistants, unless it is just
Speaker 5: absolutely cream of the crop amazing, what the sad reality is.
Speaker 4: Is assistants are Assistants are scared to.
Speaker 5: Pass it on unless they can just absolutely tell it's amazing,
Speaker 5: because they're afraid of their job. And I hope I
Speaker 5: don't get in trouble for saying this, Like I know
Speaker 5: that this is true and on certain levels at bigger firms,
Speaker 5: so you just have to be So what I guess
Speaker 5: it's to say is like it's just stup how it is. Unfortunately,
Speaker 5: and so for me though, like being a small manager,
Speaker 5: like I'm willing to take risks on certain people and
Speaker 5: develop people and that's why I think the cold query
Speaker 5: is a really scary thing because managers and agents oftentimes
Speaker 5: it isn't always about the content that the writer has.
Speaker 5: It's about the rider themselves, like they want to see
Speaker 5: like I have spidy senses. It's really weird, like I
Speaker 5: can sit down with the person and usually know within
Speaker 5: less than five minutes if I'm going to work with
Speaker 5: them or not, just based on their personality. So that's
Speaker 5: why I tell people, if you can get in front
Speaker 5: of agents and managers, your chances skyrocket, absolutely skyrocket, because
Speaker 5: they're going to be working with you. And so even
Speaker 5: though your content may not be the best, if they
Speaker 5: can tell that you are a go getter and a
Speaker 5: talented person, they're probably going to be more willing to
Speaker 5: take a chance on you. And so that's why it's
Speaker 5: just downright scary to send something in cold to like CAA,
Speaker 5: for Cercles any of those big boys, just because that's
Speaker 5: how the ball rolls. So but again, if you can
Speaker 5: meet those agency managers that work at those places at
Speaker 5: like industry events, then you're in a better, a much
Speaker 5: much better scenario.
Speaker 3: You know, because you know, it's like I've had people
Speaker 3: in here before and they would say you know, getting
Speaker 3: a manager, getting an agent, or even a manager more
Speaker 3: so than an agent, but it's a better relationship. You're
Speaker 3: gonna be working that that person for for months or
Speaker 3: years to come.
Speaker 4: I always say it is totally like a marriage.
Speaker 5: And you know what's a crazy thing is is I've
Speaker 5: talked to people before where I've been meeting them kind
Speaker 5: of see if we're gonna work together, and I've even
Speaker 5: had to be like, look, it's not even about your content, like,
Speaker 5: because honestly, I feel like I feel like every agent
Speaker 5: and every manager kind of has like their specialty or
Speaker 5: their niche where they feel most comfortable and so like
Speaker 5: mine at the current moment is television. Like I feel
Speaker 5: like I have much more connections and much more understanding
Speaker 5: of the tee reworld than I do of the film world.
Speaker 5: Do I know producers and people in the film world, Yes,
Speaker 5: but I just don't feel as comfortable in that space.
Speaker 5: So when someone comes to me and they ask me
Speaker 5: what I consider managing that all they have is features
Speaker 5: Like I sit there and I'm like, look, I'm just
Speaker 5: gonna shoot straight with you, like your step is great,
Speaker 5: but honestly, I just may not be the right manager
Speaker 5: for you only because I don't think I'm going to
Speaker 5: be able that I have what you know, that I
Speaker 5: have the contents to shop you in the right in
Speaker 5: the right places, and I don't want to do a
Speaker 5: disservice to you knowing that I probably am not going
Speaker 5: to be the best fit. So I'm just honest with
Speaker 5: them and say, like, look, it's nothing about your your
Speaker 5: ability or your talent, Like I just can tell that
Speaker 5: we're not going to be a good fit, or like
Speaker 5: I've pulled several people like you're great, that I'm just
Speaker 5: not passionate about this particular project. And to work together,
Speaker 5: like you guys, you have to be in pandem, like
Speaker 5: you have to be on the same page. You have
Speaker 5: to have a manager that's going to absolutely fight for
Speaker 5: you and advocate for you one hundred percent.
Speaker 4: And so I just, you know, I sometimes feel like
Speaker 4: it's just it really is.
Speaker 5: It's like a weird form of dating in a way,
Speaker 5: like you really just have to make sure that you
Speaker 5: click and that you gel together because you really are
Speaker 5: in this weird writing marriage, you know.
Speaker 4: So I think that that's been an interesting thing.
Speaker 5: I've learned that I've turned people down who are really
Speaker 5: talented I just know that I'm not the best fit
Speaker 5: for them.
Speaker 4: So it's hard, it's really hard.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, that actually ties in with some of
Speaker 3: the questions that we got Whitney, and we actually had
Speaker 3: a pretty good amount of questions come in. You know,
Speaker 3: I'm if you don't mind, I would you would you
Speaker 3: mind answering a few questions right now? You're absolutely uh,
Speaker 3: you know, actually just telling you with what you just said.
Speaker 3: The first question is do I need more than one
Speaker 3: script to approach a manager?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 5: Absolutely, you do, generally speaking, when you come to a
Speaker 5: manager lead jessap This is one of the main nuggets
Speaker 5: that I learned from her back in the day. You
Speaker 5: really need what's called a writer's portfolio, and so generally
Speaker 5: what that entails is you really need to have, even
Speaker 5: if you're not a TV person, this is generally across
Speaker 5: the board just what a screenwriter needs to have. You
Speaker 5: need to have a really strong TV pilot. You need
Speaker 5: to have a really strong spec pilot for something currently
Speaker 5: or not spec pilot, but that's script for something currently
Speaker 5: on air.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
Speaker 1: and now back to the show.
Speaker 5: So I tell people, you know, look, get watch television,
Speaker 5: kind of pick your top ten, well, I call a
Speaker 5: hit list of TV shows you'd really love to write for.
Speaker 5: Then kind of knowing what your talent is, narrow that
Speaker 5: down to like five, and then pick one of them
Speaker 5: and do a really good spec because you know, people
Speaker 5: at the networks and people you know at the production
Speaker 5: companies want to see that you can mimic the tone
Speaker 5: and style of someone else's work, and even at the
Speaker 5: studios for features, because you know, they do work for
Speaker 5: hire for rewrites all the time for movies, but they
Speaker 5: want to keep it in kind of that same tone,
Speaker 5: so they want to see that you can somewhat do
Speaker 5: that and then also have a really really strong feature
Speaker 5: and if you have more than that, then that great.
Speaker 4: But three is kind of the minimum. And then you know, people.
Speaker 5: Come in to evening like, well, I have five features
Speaker 5: and three, you know, three TV pilots.
Speaker 4: What do I do?
Speaker 5: And I'm like, well, you probably have a pretty good
Speaker 5: indication in your gut which went through your this, you
Speaker 5: know or the strongest, like you need to take those really,
Speaker 5: you know, read through them again, polish them, rewrite them,
Speaker 5: and then use those to send out kind of as
Speaker 5: your portfolio so absolutely, definitely more than one. Definitely one
Speaker 5: TV pilot, one spec pilot for something currently on air
Speaker 5: in any form like network, premium, cable or streaming.
Speaker 4: And then a really strong original feature that you've written.
Speaker 3: And also Whitney I think we I should probably mention too,
Speaker 3: and maybe I should have asked you this question before,
Speaker 3: but you know, there would you briefly just describe, you know,
Speaker 3: the difference between a manager and an agent, because you know,
Speaker 3: I sometimes think writers, you know, they always have an
Speaker 3: obsession about getting an agent when really it should probably
Speaker 3: get a manager.
Speaker 4: Correct.
Speaker 5: Absolutely, So for those of you listening, if you want,
Speaker 5: you can go to my website, I actually just did
Speaker 5: a four part series on representation, one on one explaining
Speaker 5: all of this.
Speaker 4: But to really do a short recap.
Speaker 5: So, an agent is licensed by the state to negotiate
Speaker 5: and execute the sale of your work. So they come
Speaker 5: in whin their business to be done, so they are
Speaker 5: the ones to do that, and they usually take ten percent,
Speaker 5: and so they really don't do They may read your scripts,
Speaker 5: but they aren't they don't have the time and aren't
Speaker 5: going to take the time to read it, give notes
Speaker 5: all of that. Agents generally tend to have anywhere from
Speaker 5: thirty to fifty clients on their roster depending on where
Speaker 5: they are in the life of their kind of career,
Speaker 5: so they can take on a lot more people because
Speaker 5: they literally are just doing the business side. The one
Speaker 5: thing also you need to know is the agents are
Speaker 5: not legally allowed to produce anything. Their only job is
Speaker 5: executing and negotiating the contract for the sale. On the
Speaker 5: flip side, the manager is not allowed to quote.
Speaker 4: Unquote procure.
Speaker 5: Employment for their client. They're not allowed to like quote
Speaker 5: unquote get you a job like doing anything per se.
Speaker 5: But they can help you sell individual scripts, but they
Speaker 5: cannot like be the ones. Again, that's the agent role.
Speaker 5: So what the manager does is the manager really is
Speaker 5: all about developing your career. They are the ones that
Speaker 5: usually go about helping you network and get meetings like
Speaker 5: I just had a meeting with HBO and Hallmark a
Speaker 5: few weeks ago, and Netflix is up on the thing.
Speaker 5: They're the ones who are going to really organize and
Speaker 5: schedule those meetings for you and get you in the
Speaker 5: door a lot of times.
Speaker 4: Now. What's different though, is a manager can produce.
Speaker 5: Which in some senses is good because your manager is
Speaker 5: way more invested in that sense, so they also take
Speaker 5: ten percent of whatever happened generally because they're the ones
Speaker 5: doing the heavy listing in the footwork of like helping
Speaker 5: you develop your concepts and reading and giving you notes
Speaker 5: and like really involved in the day to day. So yes,
Speaker 5: at the beginning of your career, if you can snag
Speaker 5: a manager like that's probably one of the best things
Speaker 5: you can do. And a lot of people don't even
Speaker 5: have agents. They can in lieu of an agents, they
Speaker 5: can just use an entertainment lawyer, which is just the
Speaker 5: same an entertainment attorney, which is just the same thing.
Speaker 5: But what great was an agent? I'll say this caveat
Speaker 5: which great was an Asian. If you have an agent
Speaker 5: at CIA or one of the bigger firms, what's great
Speaker 5: is if they have someone else in their agency, like
Speaker 5: actresses and directors and all that. The great thing is
Speaker 5: they can package you know, material and that will help.
Speaker 5: So it's like if you have your script, but then
Speaker 5: they have actresses ab and fee at their firm that
Speaker 5: are wanting to attach, and then they also have this
Speaker 5: director and then they can take it as one bid package.
Speaker 4: That definitely you know, incentivizes the.
Speaker 5: Sale So those are the two big things. Agents license
Speaker 5: by the state, negotiate, execute the contracts. Manager is not
Speaker 5: allowed to do that, but they can produce, and they're
Speaker 5: the day to day development, getting you meetings, helping you network,
Speaker 5: helping you brand yourself, helping you write, just kind of
Speaker 5: grooming you for your career.
Speaker 4: So that's the short explanation. I hope that helps.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that helped a lot, you know, and that's great information,
Speaker 3: especially about packaging too. You know that that's something also
Speaker 3: I hear, you know, people will always will always talk
Speaker 3: about that, and you know, I think a lot of
Speaker 3: times people sort of misconstrued that, and I think it's
Speaker 3: almost like the whole age thing.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and it can happen on the management side. I mean,
Speaker 5: I guess it's at your management for it, but it's
Speaker 5: I feel like, I hope that's right, and I'm kind
Speaker 5: of second guessing myself. I've heard it happening more on
Speaker 5: the agency sides. In the management side, the same package,
Speaker 5: but probably someone's gonna like write in and say I'm wrong,
Speaker 5: So who knows. I'll put that at the caveat that
Speaker 5: I'm not exactly sure, but it's in my brain at
Speaker 5: the moment. That's what it's telling me, but may be wrong,
Speaker 5: so sorry, if that's wrong information, I'll have to check.
Speaker 5: But I'm pretty sure it's more on the agency side
Speaker 5: than the management side.
Speaker 4: Did they do that?
Speaker 3: If anybody writes in, I'll just say it to you, Wedney.
Speaker 3: I'll be like, listen, Whitney, this guys, this is rank people.
Speaker 4: I'll buy you a coffee. I mean, I don't know
Speaker 4: what to say.
Speaker 5: So so yeah, so that's the differences between agents and managers.
Speaker 5: So yeah, I think management that's just spot.
Speaker 4: I mean, I love it. I just see.
Speaker 5: I just love being a part of the It's a sickness,
Speaker 5: really loving. I'll loving to be a part of the
Speaker 5: process so much. People are like every day it's so funny.
Speaker 5: I'm just like, why do I do this? Then, like
Speaker 5: when like a breakthrough happens, I'm like, yes, this is
Speaker 5: the best. I mean, it's just like it's it's such
Speaker 5: a crazy, crazy, crazy existence.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's like the plateaus and the hills, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean, it's like the the highest of
Speaker 3: highs and lows.
Speaker 5: W Wait, but the thing is, you know, and that's
Speaker 5: why you know, I guess some of people could look
Speaker 5: on it as being shady, even though I don't think
Speaker 5: it's shady. Be'st I haven't given up the consulting side
Speaker 5: of my business.
Speaker 4: Can you.
Speaker 5: People come to me and they're like, I want to
Speaker 5: be managed. I know that they're just not there yet,
Speaker 5: So I offer consulting services. And I always say, you know,
Speaker 5: if you don't want to stay with me, because you know,
Speaker 5: you think that's odd. Like I'm totally willing to, you know,
Speaker 5: send people to several of my different colleagues.
Speaker 4: But like, the.
Speaker 5: Consulting side is just that I love so much too,
Speaker 5: because I love the people that are that need the
Speaker 5: expertise of an industry x you know, you know, an
Speaker 5: industry like expert or whatever, and I love being that
Speaker 5: person to help teach them and all that. So it's
Speaker 5: kind of a it's kind of a crazy, crazy thing
Speaker 5: I love doing THO have so I feel like I
Speaker 5: can get away with it because my management, you know,
Speaker 5: Collector is so small at the moment that I still
Speaker 5: can help the people that are the up and coming
Speaker 5: aspiring writers.
Speaker 4: So I really I really still enjoy doing that so
Speaker 4: much too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can tell you know you really enjoy doing it,
Speaker 3: and I mean, you know, it's it's needed. You know,
Speaker 3: you have to have people that really enjoy this actually
Speaker 3: out there doing it. And you know, I love it.
Speaker 5: I love it so much, and I think some people
Speaker 5: get really jaded and it gets tiresome. I just I
Speaker 5: just find it all so fascinating, like the way that
Speaker 5: the human mind works and the things that people can
Speaker 5: come up with.
Speaker 4: I'm just like, I mean, I just like visibly.
Speaker 5: Like I mean, Peo will laugh at me because my
Speaker 5: face just lies up.
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 5: I'm just I'm like, even now, I'm thinking of some
Speaker 5: of the stuff that some of my consulting clients are
Speaker 5: pitching at Austin, and I'm just like, I cannot wait
Speaker 5: for them to pitch it because I just get so
Speaker 5: excited for them because the ideas are so freaking, you know, amazing.
Speaker 4: So we'll just we'll just see it's this sun exciting world.
Speaker 3: I actually have a few of the questions I I'm
Speaker 3: going to try to answer or I've started trying to
Speaker 3: ask these last two. So uh, Whitney other. This is
Speaker 3: by Joe's screenwriter, and Joe asked, what are some of
Speaker 3: your thoughts on the query letter? As a Hollywood outsider
Speaker 3: was your contact? It seems like my only shot.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and so I feel like I kind of address
Speaker 5: this a little bit earlier, but I'll expand on it.
Speaker 5: So the query is a really test thing. Like to him,
Speaker 5: I would specifically say, if you're a Hollywood outsider and
Speaker 5: you don't live in LA, I would really just make
Speaker 5: sure there is a process to the query. So I
Speaker 5: would make sure and there's like an actual format to
Speaker 5: a query letter for film and TV. So I would
Speaker 5: look up or buy a book on how to specifically
Speaker 5: query your book or your film or your TV show.
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after word from our sponsor and
Speaker 1: now back to the show.
Speaker 5: Second, if there's a specific place that you know that
Speaker 5: you want to send it, like, I would research those
Speaker 5: agencies or those firms and check their submission requirements because
Speaker 5: oftentimes certain places are closed to unsolicited queries and it's
Speaker 5: referral only, so you need to check and make sure
Speaker 5: that they're open to unsolicited queries. And yeah, for someone
Speaker 5: who doesn't live in LA, that may be your only shot.
Speaker 5: But like I said, it is not super expensive to
Speaker 5: get to LA these days. I feel like, and it's
Speaker 5: just like if you can save up and come to
Speaker 5: one event or one kind of industry saying it Kim,
Speaker 5: and again I would probably say Great American Pitchfest. Something
Speaker 5: like that is like one of the best things that
Speaker 5: you can invest in because you can get in front
Speaker 5: of like a hundred managed companies and producers who you
Speaker 5: can pitch to, and you know, it's just it can change,
Speaker 5: It can change your life. Like honestly, so in terms
Speaker 5: of a query, there's nothing wrong with him. I take
Speaker 5: unsolicited queries you can submit soon in my website. I
Speaker 5: know that a few others take unsolicited queries, like maybe
Speaker 5: Circle of Confusion. But you know, the other thing I
Speaker 5: would do to honestly for a person like that is
Speaker 5: reach out to people on Twitter and ask if they
Speaker 5: have managers or agents and like if you can get
Speaker 5: a referral, like if you can send it to a
Speaker 5: This is another way in which is a good point.
Speaker 5: If you can find another writer who's currently represented and
Speaker 5: you send them there your query first and have them
Speaker 5: look get over and if they like it, they may
Speaker 5: be willing to pass it on to their agent or manager.
Speaker 5: And that's the way that it's not unsolicited anymore. So
Speaker 5: you feel like you have to find these backdoor ways
Speaker 5: in So if he can find someone on Twitter or
Speaker 5: Facebook or LinkedIn that's currently a writer and currently reps, like.
Speaker 4: That might be a great way to go to if
Speaker 4: he can't get to LA.
Speaker 3: You know, that's a great point, Whitney. You know, Twitter
Speaker 3: is a phenomenal tool and I use it all the time.
Speaker 3: I've always talked about the great uses of Twitter because
Speaker 3: almost everyone now is on Twitter.
Speaker 4: Oh, I mean, Twitter is absolutely amazing.
Speaker 5: Like it's crazy to me, like about how many people
Speaker 5: I've met on Twitter, Like I've gotten.
Speaker 4: A few clients off of twit off of Twitter.
Speaker 5: I it is insane, And I think to the screenwriting world,
Speaker 5: it really is the best social media platform for connecting
Speaker 5: for sure.
Speaker 4: Is Twitter? Honestly, I think it's way I think it
Speaker 4: is the top one, honestly.
Speaker 5: So that's what I would say, is like cold Query,
Speaker 5: make sure that they take submissions, it's not come to
Speaker 5: an event and if not signed another writer who is
Speaker 5: repped and see if they'll look at your stuff and
Speaker 5: check it out, or several of the last one. It's
Speaker 5: several of the if you can afford to hire one
Speaker 5: of the consultants, they all I mean we all know people,
Speaker 5: and so if they come across something that's really amazing,
Speaker 5: like they aren't, they will be willing to pass it
Speaker 5: on as well.
Speaker 4: So I mean, I think.
Speaker 5: And the other thing is contests, Like if you enter
Speaker 5: contests and you place in a contest, all those lists
Speaker 5: go to agents and managers the people that place. So
Speaker 5: that's another way to break in for sure, and so
Speaker 5: that may be easier than quarying.
Speaker 4: Honestly, it's just.
Speaker 5: You know, applying for a you know, entering into one
Speaker 5: of the many, many contests out there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, that's something I've heard before too, is
Speaker 3: they want to see what you're your writing can do
Speaker 3: up against other people's writing. And you know, I've heard
Speaker 3: that where they want to see, you know, hey, why
Speaker 3: aren't they these people going in this competition? You know,
Speaker 3: why aren't they you know, doing something, and why aren't
Speaker 3: they going that route?
Speaker 4: So if we want to say that's good, that's another
Speaker 4: good way.
Speaker 5: If you're not in Hollywood, because I know they takes
Speaker 5: you know, they it doesn't matter where you live.
Speaker 4: You can always enter those contests for sure.
Speaker 3: Uh So, Witney, you know, we've been talking for about
Speaker 3: you know, forty minutes now. So in closing, is there
Speaker 3: anything that we do get a chance to discuss that
Speaker 3: you may have wanted to or a sort of you know,
Speaker 3: anything you wanted to say to put a pure Atdennis
Speaker 3: whole conversation.
Speaker 4: No, I mean, I just I.
Speaker 5: Think that I want to tell people that truly, if
Speaker 5: they set their minds out to do it, it's amazing
Speaker 5: that if they just keep at it, keep meeting people,
Speaker 5: keep writing, things can happen for you. The two things
Speaker 5: I say, the two peees of writing or patience and persistence.
Speaker 5: So I think it just really is a journey. And
Speaker 5: if you're patient yet persistent and just keep at it,
Speaker 5: you know, I truly believe things will happen for people.
Speaker 5: And I think it really is half relationships, half who
Speaker 5: you know, and half you know.
Speaker 4: Craft and how well you write.
Speaker 5: So I just always tell people always be nice to
Speaker 5: everybody you know you meet, make an effort to be
Speaker 5: friends with them beyond just wanting to sell you know,
Speaker 5: sell them or pitch them your idea, and just continue
Speaker 5: to really practice the craft the writing, and write because
Speaker 5: you love it, not because you want to make money
Speaker 5: off of it.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think and people you know.
Speaker 5: Can make money off of it, and that's the great
Speaker 5: But it's just like right because you love.
Speaker 4: It and that's what you really want to do.
Speaker 5: And I think the money will come if you go
Speaker 5: you know, look at it as a business and go
Speaker 5: about the right way of approaching it.
Speaker 4: So those are just kind of my last few nuggets
Speaker 4: of as ice and encouragement. Just keep at it.
Speaker 5: Just patience and persistence is the key, and being nice
Speaker 5: to people and it'll all, you know, hopefully it's fall
Speaker 5: into place.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I like that last part too. Be nice
Speaker 3: to people because they're you know, even on Twitter, Whitney,
Speaker 3: And I'm sure you get this all the time. I
Speaker 3: get a lot of people who immediately follow me or
Speaker 3: they'll send me an email to my website and right
Speaker 3: away they're asking something from me like hey, Dave, can
Speaker 3: you retweet this? Can you can you do this? I'm like,
Speaker 3: I don't even know who you are. I don't even
Speaker 3: know what the movie is, right, Like why don't you?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 5: And I'm telling you I And what I really appreciate
Speaker 5: is even the writers that I know once Tony, but
Speaker 5: they actually just like act me out for coffee and
Speaker 5: like we go to and just get to know each
Speaker 5: other before they make, you know, a certain ask or whatever.
Speaker 4: I mean, it really is about.
Speaker 5: Just getting to know other writers and building those relationships
Speaker 5: and you know, just acknowledging their successes before you start
Speaker 5: asking favors of them. I just think there's so much
Speaker 5: power and acknowledging success just to be like days, you
Speaker 5: like do a great job at podcasting, like thank you
Speaker 5: so much for the for what you put out there
Speaker 5: in the Twitter universe and social media at large, and
Speaker 5: start that conversation that way, and then maybe after a
Speaker 5: few days, like, you know, it's been so great talking
Speaker 5: to you. I was just curious if you know, maybe
Speaker 5: we could do X, Y and V together and like
Speaker 5: have something to offer back to them, like if you like,
Speaker 5: I said, like, if you're gonna offer to like reach
Speaker 5: you know, ask somebody to do this, be like, hey,
Speaker 5: in return, I'm more than happy to do X, Y
Speaker 5: and Z for you in the future, like see if
Speaker 5: you can barter or something like that makes it a lot,
Speaker 5: a lot, a lot more acceptable to me that people
Speaker 5: would be willing as they know that you're also willing
Speaker 5: to give on your end. So I think it's definitely
Speaker 5: a give and take and the writing community is such
Speaker 5: a great place. I just love it so much. So,
Speaker 5: I mean that's what I always say. Be nice to people.
Speaker 5: The first rule of everything. It will it will come
Speaker 5: back around in a great, great way if you can
Speaker 5: do that.
Speaker 3: You know that that's excellent advice. Whitney, Whitney, where can
Speaker 3: you will find you online and they.
Speaker 5: Can find me at Whitney Davisliterary dot com and then
Speaker 5: they can sign me across all social media at W
Speaker 5: davisliterary dot com.
Speaker 4: I mean well at W. Davis Literary.
Speaker 5: Yeah, the handle on Twitter, he's booking, LinkedIn and everywhere else.
Speaker 3: I guess yeah, and everyone. I'm going to link to
Speaker 3: that in the show notes. Whitney Davis, I want to
Speaker 3: say thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
Speaker 4: He thank you for having me. It was an absolute blast.
Speaker 3: Oh I'm glad you had fun because this is your
Speaker 3: first podcast. I'm glahead you know you had fun on it. Yes,
Speaker 3: it was my thank you, Oh anytime. Best of luck, Whitney.
Speaker 3: And you know, if you ever want to come back
Speaker 3: on the show, please just let me know. I mean
Speaker 3: more than happy to have you back on.
Speaker 4: I would love it.
Speaker 5: We'll have to figure something else to talk something else
Speaker 5: to talk about, but for.
Speaker 3: Sure, Oh, there's so much we could talk about it.
Speaker 4: We just doe networking. I love talking about networking for writers.
Speaker 4: It's like one of my favorites. We should do that.
Speaker 3: Oh that sounds good because I usually get asked about
Speaker 3: how I how I network and when I go on
Speaker 3: other people's podcasts.
Speaker 4: So we should do it. It'll be fun.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we could do like a dual networking thab be
Speaker 3: pretty cool.
Speaker 4: Let's do it.
Speaker 3: I'm down, Whitney, thanks so much. Okay, thank you eighty time,
Speaker 3: take care, bye bye.
Speaker 1: I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
Speaker 1: a great job on this episode. If you want to
Speaker 1: get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
Speaker 1: head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot
Speaker 1: tv for it. Slash four thirty eight, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for listening, guys, As always, keep on writing no
Speaker 1: matter what. I'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof
Speaker 2: Screenwriting dot tv.