Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome back. I'm Emily Moyer. We have a
Speaker 1: very exciting show today.
Speaker 2: A gentleman that I just met recently when I was
Speaker 2: on his show, but I've been tracking for a while
Speaker 2: is here. He is the host of Forbidden Knowledge News,
Speaker 2: runs the Forbidden Knowledge News Network and is the creator
Speaker 2: of the documentaries A Cult Louisiana and the brand new
Speaker 2: Doors of Perception. Chris Matthew, Welcome to Strange Mosaic. Nice
Speaker 2: to see you, my friend.
Speaker 3: Hey, Emily, thank you so much for having me. Looking
Speaker 3: forward to it all rays ready to get weird.
Speaker 1: No, we do weird here. That's kind of what I
Speaker 1: specialize it.
Speaker 2: So you know, I first, obviously like I've been kind
Speaker 2: of aware of you for a while, partly because other
Speaker 2: people who are on your network are people who I've
Speaker 2: done shows with or who've.
Speaker 1: Been on my shows.
Speaker 2: And then like last year, maybe maybe it was two
Speaker 2: years ago now, but I think it was last year,
Speaker 2: my really good friends from the Melt had you on,
Speaker 2: and you guys were talking a lot lot about your
Speaker 2: experiences with psychedelics, and much of what you had to
Speaker 2: say really resonated with me for how I view the experience.
Speaker 2: And then when I was getting ready to go on
Speaker 2: your show, I sort of familiarized myself with some of
Speaker 2: your other stuff, and I kind of came to this
Speaker 2: interesting recognition that though you and I are like personally
Speaker 2: quite different and maybe what we focus on is a
Speaker 2: little bit different, the years of looking at this stuff
Speaker 2: have brought us to an understanding that I actually feel
Speaker 2: like your perspective on things and my perspective on things
Speaker 2: may be more similar than almost what I have with
Speaker 2: anyone else, even those who I have maybe more topical
Speaker 2: interests or whatever in common with. So I enjoyed speaking
Speaker 2: with you when I was on your show, and I'm
Speaker 2: looking forward to digging into that sort of resonance today.
Speaker 2: I did watch your new documentary Doors of Perception last week,
Speaker 2: and I do want to spend a good amount of
Speaker 2: time talking about this today. But really, can you like
Speaker 2: so my audience can get to know you in case
Speaker 2: they don't. Sometimes when we run in different circles, there
Speaker 2: can be people out there existing in the ecosystem for
Speaker 2: a long time that we're just not aware of. So
Speaker 2: who are you? Where do you come from? What's the plan?
Speaker 1: Where are you going? All that jazz?
Speaker 3: All right? Well, thank you again for having me. I
Speaker 3: am Chris Matthew. I am host and producer of the
Speaker 3: Forbidden Knowledge News podcast and producer and director of the
Speaker 3: Forbidden documentary series which you mentioned those two films earlier
Speaker 3: call Louisian Indoors of Perception. Never in my life planned
Speaker 3: on being a filmmaker. That just came out of some
Speaker 3: very profound spiritual experiences and as well as a long
Speaker 3: time kind of absorbing this kind of information and new understandings,
Speaker 3: and it just inspired me to do so. But mainly
Speaker 3: I do this podcast six days a week, and I
Speaker 3: have some of the same topics that you cover in
Speaker 3: so many of the same guests, and we do have crossovers.
Speaker 3: I focus a lot on the paranormal, ufology conspiratorial type
Speaker 3: of realms, but I really go everywhere and anywhere, and
Speaker 3: I'm just blessed to be able to do this on
Speaker 3: a daily basis, and like I said, talk about weird
Speaker 3: stuff and make a living from it. So thank you
Speaker 3: again for having me.
Speaker 1: What's kind of your origin story? How did you go?
Speaker 2: I mean, for me, while I've always been like weird
Speaker 2: and sort of on the fringe of lots of stuff,
Speaker 2: like there was a very specific sort of series of
Speaker 2: events that dislodged me from any attachment to normal reality
Speaker 2: and entrenched me completely in whatever the fuck is that
Speaker 2: we're in.
Speaker 1: What was that for you?
Speaker 3: For me, it was very interesting. It really started about
Speaker 3: twenty twelve and around that time period. That's so funny.
Speaker 3: So many people have that same time period that they
Speaker 3: kind of started to wake up. But I was going
Speaker 3: through a bad divorce. I was depressed. I had no
Speaker 3: idea what direction my life was going to go, even
Speaker 3: though I had a comfortable career as a salesman and
Speaker 3: at a corporate job, you know, doing bullshit sales, and
Speaker 3: I hated that job. Like I was, you know, making
Speaker 3: good money, but I dreaded waking up in the morning
Speaker 3: and having to go do this nonsensical job every day.
Speaker 3: And I was just looking for something else in my
Speaker 3: life at the time. I had no spiritual path. I
Speaker 3: was for the longest time sex, drugs and rock and roll,
Speaker 3: and I got married to the wrong woman and that
Speaker 3: led to pharmaceuticals and rock and roll and just a
Speaker 3: very depressed lifestyle. Wasn't eating right, wasn't living right on
Speaker 3: all kinds of pharmaceuticals, just trying to get By went
Speaker 3: through this divorce, and that kicked me awake because I
Speaker 3: just knew I had to find something as a child.
Speaker 3: As a young child, I was always into this weird
Speaker 3: stuff paranormal and magic and mysticism, and I loved all
Speaker 3: this stuff. And I also grew up in a Catholic
Speaker 3: home and was scared out of the Catholic Church at
Speaker 3: a very young age just because of the crazy dogmen
Speaker 3: everything that surrounds that. But I decided that I'm just
Speaker 3: going to start diving back into things that make me
Speaker 3: happy and passionate. So I started doing back in twenty twelve.
Speaker 3: YouTube was a great place to start if you were
Speaker 3: looking for because they had access to all these great
Speaker 3: conspiracies and shows and information. It wasn't censored yet. So
Speaker 3: I started there and that led me to books that
Speaker 3: I wanted to read and people that I wanted to
Speaker 3: talk to. And I just started really getting passionate about
Speaker 3: these alternative topics that we cover. And I started writing
Speaker 3: a blog on Facebook called Forbidden Knowledge News, and people
Speaker 3: started following it. I got a few thousand followers very
Speaker 3: early started growing and I thought, you know, I don't
Speaker 3: know enough about any of this stuff for you people
Speaker 3: to be listening to me. I got to start talking
Speaker 3: to other people. So I started reaching out to some
Speaker 3: of my favorite authors and researchers and people that I
Speaker 3: was really into, and amazingly enough, they agreed to come
Speaker 3: on this new show that I started on YouTube call
Speaker 3: Forbidden Knowledge News. It was an interview based show. I
Speaker 3: was also in the early days covering these little kind
Speaker 3: of apocalyptic news stories that were happening around the world.
Speaker 3: I was really I started out in deep into the
Speaker 3: world is going to end any day soon. I was
Speaker 3: very dark into that for a while, but that shifted
Speaker 3: once I got a better understanding of everything and I
Speaker 3: started having these wonderful guests on the show, and it
Speaker 3: was just a YouTube channel. One day I had the
Speaker 3: amazing Charlie Robinson on and he suggested that I turned
Speaker 3: my show into a podcast. He hooked me up with
Speaker 3: my now producer, Corey Hughes, who is the author of
Speaker 3: a couple of great JFK books, and we started this
Speaker 3: network just with my podcast to start out with. And
Speaker 3: that's where it all really started. In twenty fifteen or sixteen,
Speaker 3: that's when the podcast came to fruition. But the career
Speaker 3: kind of flourished in a different way because it was
Speaker 3: just a fun hobby at the time. We weren't I
Speaker 3: wasn't making any money, had no idea how to turn
Speaker 3: this into a career of any type. So that is
Speaker 3: a kind of different transition story if you want to
Speaker 3: get into that. It's kind of a long story, but
Speaker 3: we can go there if you'd like. It's basically my
Speaker 3: first which you would call spiritual contact experience, which led
Speaker 3: me ultimately where I'm at now.
Speaker 2: Well, if you don't mind share a little bit of
Speaker 2: that and then oh yeah, enough, we can give them.
Speaker 2: We can get into I think that you know, doors
Speaker 2: of perception, which is probably a reflection of you know,
Speaker 2: that early experience and then all you've learned since then
Speaker 2: when you sort of look back at it, right, So.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, So it was early twenty twenty, the whole
Speaker 3: COVID Fiesco hadn't really kicked in yet. I was again
Speaker 3: going through a bad breakup. I had this cycle of
Speaker 3: getting into a very toxic relationships, you could say, So
Speaker 3: this was another one going through a bad breakup, and
Speaker 3: I was doing the show for a while and it
Speaker 3: was going well. It was picking up a large audience,
Speaker 3: but I had still had no idea how to translate
Speaker 3: that into I can make a living off of this,
Speaker 3: so it never even crossed my mind to do so.
Speaker 3: I was still at my corporate job and doing this,
Speaker 3: you know, two three times a week when I would
Speaker 3: come home as a hobby, and I was you know,
Speaker 3: I really was passionate about it. I loved it. It
Speaker 3: consumed me, but I still had to wake up every
Speaker 3: day and go into this BS job so I could survive.
Speaker 3: One day, I come home and, like I said, I'm
Speaker 3: just pissed off at the world at this time because
Speaker 3: I don't know where to go. I have still no
Speaker 3: spiritual foundation. I'm looking into all these weird things but
Speaker 3: no just no spiritual connection at all. And I had
Speaker 3: been talking to people about meditations, so I'm like, you know,
Speaker 3: this is why not just give it a shot? And
Speaker 3: I had been trying for a while with no success
Speaker 3: until this one evening in twenty twenty when I get
Speaker 3: home and I don't know if this is connected in
Speaker 3: any way, but I add this to my story because
Speaker 3: it feels like it is. I was talking to my
Speaker 3: neighbor in my front yard and I look up at
Speaker 3: the sky and there's these like three bright orange flames
Speaker 3: like shooting up in the sky and it looks like
Speaker 3: a UFO or so, I don't know, I have no
Speaker 3: idea what it is. And then it all of a
Speaker 3: sudden just bloot blinks out of existence. And I kind
Speaker 3: of filed that as, oh, that's interesting, maybe a UFO,
Speaker 3: maybe not. But a few minutes later I go into
Speaker 3: I start to try my meditation, and I took some
Speaker 3: advice from people, put on four thirty two hrtz tones
Speaker 3: and different breathing techniques, and I was really able to
Speaker 3: get into this extreme state of peace and quiet and stillness.
Speaker 3: And I was in that for I don't know how long.
Speaker 3: I kind of lost track of time, and all of
Speaker 3: a sudden, you know, this kind of blue light came
Speaker 3: into my subconscious peripheral vision and got brighter and brighter,
Speaker 3: and as it was getting brighter and brighter, I felt
Speaker 3: this immense love like I'd never ever felt before. It
Speaker 3: was like, you know, I thought I knew what love
Speaker 3: felt like from my parents and you know, maybe girlfriends,
Speaker 3: but this was this was incredibly powerful. It felt like
Speaker 3: a love drug or something. I was just beaming and
Speaker 3: it was amazing and whatever this was It spoke in
Speaker 3: my mind. It said, hey, Chris, it's time for us
Speaker 3: to talk. Are you ready? And I'm like, what the fuck?
Speaker 3: I freak out, like I revert to childhood dogma. I
Speaker 3: asked this. I was like, in Jesus Christ, name are
Speaker 3: you a demon? And it immediately has this like laughter
Speaker 3: and reassurance and love just coming at me, and it's like, yes,
Speaker 3: it's all good. Calm down, and it's like I've been
Speaker 3: with you your whole life. We need to talk. And
Speaker 3: I was like, I was like, what are you? Who
Speaker 3: are He's like, just calm down, let's talk first. So
Speaker 3: I said, okay, you have at least a name, and
Speaker 3: it said yeah, but you don't. You wouldn't be able
Speaker 3: to pronounce it. Call me whatever you want. I said,
Speaker 3: all right, I'll call you Layered because my cousin when
Speaker 3: I was growing up was named Laired and that popped
Speaker 3: into my head. I thought it was a cool name.
Speaker 3: So hey, you're Layered. The beings like all right, cool.
Speaker 3: So it proceeds to tell me that I need to
Speaker 3: make some very profound changes in my life, need to
Speaker 3: start healing childhood trauma, that I need to start looking
Speaker 3: into certain topics that would leave me in a certain direction,
Speaker 3: and also that there was some the world was about
Speaker 3: to change in a very profound way. Again, this is
Speaker 3: early twenty twenty, before the whole COVID thing really popped off,
Speaker 3: and it said you need to prepare yourself and it
Speaker 3: would recommend getting more of a stronger spiritual connection. But first,
Speaker 3: in order to do that, I have to heal some
Speaker 3: major trauma. I have to stop getting in toxic relationships,
Speaker 3: like all these things that I didn't want to hear
Speaker 3: at the time. I'm like, I thought I was fine.
Speaker 3: I'm like, what are you talking about? I'm good? But
Speaker 3: this voice, you know, and I knew deep down that
Speaker 3: it was right, and it kept just going over these
Speaker 3: very important things that I can do to heal myself.
Speaker 3: One of the things, oddly enough, this voice is weird.
Speaker 3: This incarnate voice that showed up says you should do
Speaker 3: psilocybin to help with your healing of your trauma. It
Speaker 3: also adds ease of access to conversations with me. And
Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, So at this point, I have no
Speaker 3: idea what this is. I don't know if it's an alien.
Speaker 3: I have an understanding of what it is now, and
Speaker 3: at the time, you know, I still wasn't able to
Speaker 3: get this thing to tell me what it was. The
Speaker 3: conversation lasted two hours. It was mainly just telling me
Speaker 3: about things that I really needed to focus on in
Speaker 3: my life in order to heal, to get us better
Speaker 3: spiritual connection. And after that vo it just kind of
Speaker 3: faded away. After a while, I couldn't connect with it anymore.
Speaker 3: And I found it very strange that it mentioned psychedelics
Speaker 3: because the last time I had done magic mushrooms, I
Speaker 3: was a teenager and it was terrifying and I would
Speaker 3: never have wanted to go back to that experience because
Speaker 3: that only time I did it, it scared the shit
Speaker 3: out of me, and I'm like, why would Why would
Speaker 3: I do that again? So that kind of resonated with
Speaker 3: me a little bit. Found it very strange, And the
Speaker 3: main message before the connection ended was you need to
Speaker 3: quit your job and do what you're doing what I'm doing.
Speaker 3: Do with the show. It's like, yeah, do what you're doing,
Speaker 3: quit your job immediately, and I'm like, co no, but
Speaker 3: thank you for the suggestion. So a few days went
Speaker 3: by after this and I'm talking to people that I
Speaker 3: had had on my show, and I'm trying to figure
Speaker 3: out what this was, What's going on. If I just
Speaker 3: had an acid flashback or whatever. Because I did do
Speaker 3: a lot of acid as a teenager, that was something
Speaker 3: that it was into. But so a few days go
Speaker 3: by and I'm thinking, you know what this, I have
Speaker 3: to try and do this again. I have to get
Speaker 3: back in touch with this. Somehow, I try and try,
Speaker 3: and I think it was like on the fifth day,
Speaker 3: something came over me and said, get in water and
Speaker 3: try again.
Speaker 2: And I did.
Speaker 3: I got in the bathtub, I put on the tones,
Speaker 3: went into a meditative state, and there the voice comes
Speaker 3: back with the blue light and it was layered and
Speaker 3: it was the same familiar feeling. It proceeded to walk
Speaker 3: me through this childhood traumatic memory that I had, and
Speaker 3: was kind of letting me know, you need to kind
Speaker 3: of be aware of some of these things and you
Speaker 3: need to remember them in order to get past them,
Speaker 3: and you need, you know, to heal your inner child
Speaker 3: all these you know, things that we do whenever we
Speaker 3: understand what you know, these what it means to have
Speaker 3: to do this healing stuff in order to progress, you know, spiritually.
Speaker 3: So I was able to remember this very traumatic childhood
Speaker 3: memory was very profound. It's a very emotional moment. And
Speaker 3: this is when it got really weird. I could open
Speaker 3: my eyes and I was in my bathroom and everything
Speaker 3: was there. But when I closed my eyes, the environment
Speaker 3: was uniform. I could look around and I was on
Speaker 3: a spaceship, like, no, a legit spaceship. And they had
Speaker 3: these like atheric translucent beings that looked like the looked
Speaker 3: like the little holographs on Star Wars when they would
Speaker 3: show up, but they were green colored, and they had
Speaker 3: these robes, and they were all these animal human hybrid
Speaker 3: looking beings, like tote of animals, but they were kind
Speaker 3: of more humanoid in a sense because they were standing
Speaker 3: on two legs and they had robes, and they were
Speaker 3: just beaming these amazing feelings of love to me. And
Speaker 3: this little frog dude, well not little, he was kind
Speaker 3: of a big frog dude. And he walks up and
Speaker 3: he proceeds to like again, being these feelings of love
Speaker 3: and ask me if I am ready to accept my
Speaker 3: I always try to remember exactly how he said this.
Speaker 3: I don't remember exactly what it was, but it's something
Speaker 3: along the lines of if I'm ready to step into
Speaker 3: my mission that I agreed to when I incarnated in
Speaker 3: this reality, and it was such an emotional thing that
Speaker 3: I just connected with and I was like, yes, I'm
Speaker 3: I was so excited. I was crying, and whatever these
Speaker 3: etheric beings were, they were just, you know, so happy
Speaker 3: that I accepted and it felt like they were applauding me.
Speaker 3: That experience eventually faded, and it was so profound, it
Speaker 3: was so powerful that I knew there was something to this.
Speaker 3: I knew whatever I experienced was was there was something
Speaker 3: real about it. I couldn't deny it, you know, I
Speaker 3: had connected with something. So within six months, I take
Speaker 3: out my four to zoe K and I quit my job.
Speaker 3: I was in South Louisiana at the time, which I
Speaker 3: really wasn't happy there, so move out to Colorado. Always
Speaker 3: wanted to go out to the mountains start throwing myself
Speaker 3: into this. Terrifying because we didn't know how long my
Speaker 3: four rohwin K was gonna last. I didn't know, you know,
Speaker 3: if I was going to be able to make this
Speaker 3: a success or won everything or anything like that. So
Speaker 3: a few months go by and it was terrifying. We
Speaker 3: were losing money, but then one day we look at
Speaker 3: our revenue and it's like, holy shit, we can pay
Speaker 3: rent this month. And then you know, a couple of
Speaker 3: months go by and we can pay rent and get
Speaker 3: a hamburger this month. It's quite amazing. So it just
Speaker 3: it kept getting better and better, and I since I
Speaker 3: moved to Colorado. I didn't even put the connection together
Speaker 3: at the time, but magic mushrooms are legal to grow here,
Speaker 3: and so I started started my little farm, and that
Speaker 3: is when my psilocybin experiences started, which I'm sure we'll
Speaker 3: get into a little later. Some wild stuff happened there,
Speaker 3: but that is when the real journey began. I hadn't
Speaker 3: gotten into the film stuff yet. I was inspired later
Speaker 3: through psychedelics to do the films, and yeah, that's where
Speaker 3: that's where I was at. We just started to become
Speaker 3: a little successful and it took off from there.
Speaker 1: Super interesting.
Speaker 2: So you said a couple of things that like hit
Speaker 2: a few specific marks for me as a familiar to
Speaker 2: some of my own experiences, but be things that I
Speaker 2: hear from other people who you know, have gone through
Speaker 2: some of these experiences and then end up developing, you know,
Speaker 2: kind of a similar perspective on what all of this is.
Speaker 2: And so from just from my point of view, just
Speaker 2: my opinion is it is no doubt connected that whatever
Speaker 2: you saw in the sky is what altered your ability
Speaker 2: to get into a more profound, meditative sche right. Because
Speaker 2: while there's lots of different opinions out there about what
Speaker 2: the UFO phenomenon is, are they man made? Are they alien?
Speaker 2: Are they interdimensional? Are they biological? Are they technological?
Speaker 1: The thing that.
Speaker 2: I know for sure with any ar all of that,
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm one of those people who's like, it's
Speaker 2: a both and it doesn't ever. It's not ever either
Speaker 2: or for me that it is. It is a frequency
Speaker 2: and resonance based phenomena, right, And so what it feels
Speaker 2: like is just though you caught it for a second,
Speaker 2: like it's almost like, I don't mean this in the
Speaker 2: negative sense of the word, but it's almost like being
Speaker 2: hit with the directed energy weapon.
Speaker 1: You had your right to be adjusted, right, and then.
Speaker 2: You were able to go into a headspace that you
Speaker 2: were sort of made aware of that transition into that
Speaker 2: space by this blue light.
Speaker 1: And if you talk to people who have.
Speaker 2: Had experiences in underground bases or what some people refer
Speaker 2: to as like cloning centers, there's often a blue light involved.
Speaker 2: If you talk to people who feel that they've had
Speaker 2: interaction with some sort of plasma entity or some sort
Speaker 2: of light being, there's also a blue light often involved.
Speaker 1: One of the.
Speaker 2: Things I've come I've had a lot of experience with
Speaker 2: blue lights. And one thing that started happening for me
Speaker 2: when I moved to Austin the most recent time, which
Speaker 2: was in twenty twenty one, was that I started seeing
Speaker 2: these interesting blue lights that would be like directly in
Speaker 2: front of my face.
Speaker 1: They were always at eye level. It wasn't like off
Speaker 1: to the corner or whatever it is.
Speaker 2: They were always did be frustrate in front of me,
Speaker 2: and as soon as my attention locked on it, it
Speaker 2: would disappear. And I cannot even remember the exact way
Speaker 2: to say the term, but it has something to do
Speaker 2: with like the a light photon, or like something about
Speaker 2: something that's coming in at a specific speed of light
Speaker 2: and that some of these other intelligences that are not
Speaker 2: at embodies that that might be how they would sort
Speaker 2: of like make themselves known, is like they right.
Speaker 3: Somebody was talking about the red shift and blue shifts
Speaker 3: the other day that the higher dimension will have to
Speaker 3: red shift down to us and we have to blue shift,
Speaker 3: or maybe it's the opposite, but it really kind of
Speaker 3: connects with what you're saying there, right.
Speaker 2: There's there's a couple of different ways to see it,
Speaker 2: and it depends on whether you see things as more
Speaker 2: like dimensional or more temporal, like exactly the mechanics of it.
Speaker 1: Also, like for me, along with.
Speaker 2: The phenomena of these blue lights kind of things, I
Speaker 2: would get these weird things that I refer to as
Speaker 2: like feather orbs. Like there would be like, particularly when
Speaker 2: I was in this one apartment, there'd be all these
Speaker 2: like feathers that would come at like not floating like
Speaker 2: you would normally some a feather.
Speaker 1: They'd like come in at some really crazy angle with
Speaker 1: a lot of speed or whatever.
Speaker 2: Right, And when I would look down at the floor,
Speaker 2: there was no feathers on the floor, So like, what
Speaker 2: were they?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Like for one period of time, you could see them
Speaker 2: in almost all of my shows. Now there's like an
Speaker 2: occasional one. But the studio I'm in now doesn't have
Speaker 2: it's completely closed off. There's no external light coming and
Speaker 2: I have a feeling that these beings like some external
Speaker 2: light not just the completely.
Speaker 1: Closed off sort of studio space.
Speaker 2: But it seems like to me when I read, like
Speaker 2: read Robert Temple's book The New Science of Heaven, which
Speaker 2: is all about plasma, that it's likely that the you know,
Speaker 2: we have this sort of full environment around us that
Speaker 2: we can't normally see, but specifically, like if you can
Speaker 2: start to be able to see things that sort of
Speaker 2: come in at a certain angle, right like, and you
Speaker 2: start to notice this kind of thing, and that might
Speaker 2: be some of these intelligences that don't have bodies in
Speaker 2: the way that we think think of them trying to
Speaker 2: do something to sort of catch our attention, and like
Speaker 2: certain kind of corners with certain kind of angles, they
Speaker 2: seem to be happening more in rooms that have that
Speaker 2: or in areas around that. So it makes sense to
Speaker 2: me on some level that that would be I mean,
Speaker 2: it's got to be weird, like we are not noticing
Speaker 2: someone else's there, but they can see us all the
Speaker 2: time or something like that. Right, It's kind of these
Speaker 2: one of these weird situations that humans find themselves in.
Speaker 1: And they do have sort of like a.
Speaker 2: Plasma sheath kind of membranes or something, but it's not
Speaker 2: like what we think of as like a physical body
Speaker 2: that is easy to notice in space. So the thing
Speaker 2: with the blue light and the UFO my attention for sure,
Speaker 2: and it was it's a frequency adjust right, And then
Speaker 2: you were able to sort of get into this space
Speaker 2: and stay in this space for a period of time.
Speaker 2: And then when you told me that they recommended psilocybin,
Speaker 2: I'm coming to understand that silocybin does. And we can
Speaker 2: get into this more in the second hour, for sure.
Speaker 2: But what it's really good at is mediating a conversation
Speaker 2: between someone or something here and someone or something there.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's.
Speaker 2: That it provides a little extra energy to sort of
Speaker 2: carry sort of information across this like membrane a little bit,
Speaker 2: or if it has to do with the amplification of
Speaker 2: our senses, like our hearing gets adjusted and our visual
Speaker 2: acuity gets adjusted, which is kind of similar to having
Speaker 2: a frequency adjust from the outside. So it's like tuned
Speaker 2: you into that band on the radio where now you
Speaker 2: can sort of transmit messages and hear them back or whatever.
Speaker 2: It is, right, And it's not like an audio or
Speaker 2: a visual message per se. It's informational, but it has
Speaker 2: to do with the attunement of our eyes and our ears.
Speaker 1: So that was interesting. And then what you said about
Speaker 1: the bathtub, right, Like.
Speaker 2: For some reason, water, I always have my best ideas
Speaker 2: either in the shower, in the bathtub or like weirdly
Speaker 2: like on the toilet, right, which also is sort of
Speaker 2: this interesting water and vortex kind of scenario.
Speaker 1: But for me, I've had all kinds of psychedelic experiences.
Speaker 1: The most intense psychedelic visuals I ever have are in
Speaker 1: the bathtub.
Speaker 2: And like since that was little, like when I'm in
Speaker 2: the shower or the bath I'll like rub my eyes
Speaker 2: a little bit, and I have a level of intense
Speaker 2: visuals that I've not seen on psychedelics and that I've
Speaker 2: not seen in the visual Like I go to a
Speaker 2: lot of undergroundhouse parties techno music, and the ones I
Speaker 2: go to are like the height of audio and visual production,
Speaker 2: and like the kind of visual shows they have that
Speaker 2: include lasers and screen mapping and literally like retinal like
Speaker 2: it's it's it's you'd be blown away. Some of the
Speaker 2: stuff that I've seen. None of it matches up a
Speaker 2: to the most intense psychedelic visions, but definitely not to
Speaker 2: these visuals in the bathtub. They're so intense that I
Speaker 2: can't stay there for very long because it becomes it's
Speaker 2: an amount of light and saturation and definition that is
Speaker 2: hard to stay.
Speaker 1: Focused on for a bit.
Speaker 2: But when I look at it, what it really looks
Speaker 2: like is very very Masonic in terms of the floor,
Speaker 2: the setup, and some of the.
Speaker 1: Characters.
Speaker 2: It's much more futuristic looking than when we look at
Speaker 2: like Masonic art. But if you think about it, maybe
Speaker 2: you know a couple thousand years ago, when people first
Speaker 2: started to try and create groups and societies or works
Speaker 2: around these types of states, they didn't have the technology
Speaker 2: to create hyper real looking things, so they were just
Speaker 2: trying to with the tools they had create a replica
Speaker 2: of the thing that they saw quickly. Because again it's intense,
Speaker 2: it's hard to stay there. But when I look at them,
Speaker 2: it looks like super hyperreal, like super otherworldly. But it
Speaker 2: has all of the elements of what I think of
Speaker 2: as Masonic architecture or art, or the Masonic setup or
Speaker 2: the characters or whatever it is, Like I call it
Speaker 2: psychedelic masonry, right, and so like whatever that experience is
Speaker 2: that being submerged and then sort of finding a space
Speaker 2: to connect is one.
Speaker 1: Of the.
Speaker 2: Probably like I don't know if they're saying oldest, but
Speaker 2: the most traveled paths of information transfer, right, like like
Speaker 2: you know, throughout time.
Speaker 1: And so that's all like super interesting. I have a
Speaker 1: question about layered, right.
Speaker 2: When I have had some of these conversations, Like I've
Speaker 2: never had a two hour conversation like with someone that
Speaker 2: I perceived as being a separate being. I've had all
Speaker 2: night long conversations with what felt like a version of
Speaker 2: myself that exists outside of time, right, that is sort
Speaker 2: of like out of the time stream.
Speaker 3: But that's what That's what I've come to understand layered
Speaker 3: is by higher self. Yes, okay, that connection yeah.
Speaker 2: Right, And and part of how I've understood it over
Speaker 2: time is like you get to know the personality and
Speaker 2: the characteristics, looking for whether there's deceit or trickery or
Speaker 2: like promising you things that aren't. And my experience with
Speaker 2: all of this is like no, mostly it's just gives
Speaker 2: me a word or two, a few words sometimes to
Speaker 2: inspire my search or like if I'm really really struggling
Speaker 2: or suffering, like tell me a thing that either I
Speaker 2: wouldn't think of or that I know deep down, but
Speaker 2: like I don't want to do because it's scarier. It
Speaker 2: means giving some up something.
Speaker 1: Or whatever it is.
Speaker 2: But there's never been like some luring me into a situation,
Speaker 2: right that, Like people warn you about entities or demons
Speaker 2: or whatever it is, There's never been any any of
Speaker 2: that with this particular sort of situation or set up.
Speaker 2: So it sounds to me like that it's you know
Speaker 2: that this is the classic initiation on some level. It's
Speaker 2: a decentralized process for those who choose to pursue it
Speaker 2: by themselves instead, yeah, in a group, you know, Like
Speaker 2: I had a girl on my show recently who has
Speaker 2: written a book about the underground dance music scene as
Speaker 2: a decentralized mystery school that allows someone to initiate themselves, right,
Speaker 2: and we had an interesting conversation around that. But the
Speaker 2: same can be said for the pursuit of this information
Speaker 2: that we're doing that we've been doing, or the looking
Speaker 2: at you know, ones developing a long term sort of
Speaker 2: back and forth relationship with a psychedelic substance or whatever
Speaker 2: it is. So sounds like you you know, you were initiated,
Speaker 2: you know, at the pace that you were ready under
Speaker 2: the circumstances.
Speaker 1: That you could accept it and.
Speaker 2: Do it responsibly, not like running around feeling like you
Speaker 2: had to do something you know that involved everyone else
Speaker 2: with your newfound knowledge, right, which is tempting for some people. Right,
Speaker 2: I know something, you don't know, what can I do
Speaker 2: with it? Intead of just like I'm gonna wait until
Speaker 2: I even know what's going on here before I decide
Speaker 2: if there is something to do with it, right, So
Speaker 2: very interesting. Obviously this experience I have not seen occult Louisiana,
Speaker 2: but I'm intrigued now, so maybe sometime I'll check it out.
Speaker 1: We can talk about that.
Speaker 2: I had one wild week in New Orleans once that.
Speaker 1: Right, that I'd love to try and understand sometime.
Speaker 2: But I did watch Doors of Perception, and it's obviously
Speaker 2: like this is, you know, the next step for you
Speaker 2: and sort of taking those experiences outside and trying to
Speaker 2: affect more people with that. Why did you decide to
Speaker 2: do the documentary? And then how did you sort of decide?
Speaker 2: You know, there's like three or four main topics you
Speaker 2: focused on in there. The one that sort of piqued
Speaker 2: my interest the most, which is another commonality between you
Speaker 2: and I is the part about sleep paralysis, right, but
Speaker 2: sort of what how did you decide to do this?
Speaker 2: How did you decide what to focus on? And then
Speaker 2: let's get into it a little bit.
Speaker 3: So it was inspired through a series of psychedelic experiences,
Speaker 3: which we'll probably get into a little later, because my
Speaker 3: experiences were very all encompassing, extremely visionary. I would have
Speaker 3: out of body experiences. I would have these extremely profound,
Speaker 3: intertwined experiences where this reality would just get sucked into
Speaker 3: another and I would be in a different just very
Speaker 3: profound things that would happen. But we'll get into that
Speaker 3: a little bit.
Speaker 1: But we'll do mushroom Mystery School on.
Speaker 3: The Yeah, the mushrooms. But those experiences really inspired me
Speaker 3: to do something more. I was, you know, passionate about
Speaker 3: this show, of course, but I always loved film. I
Speaker 3: always loved a visual presentation of information and in a
Speaker 3: very entertaining way. So I decided to try and do
Speaker 3: it myself. And I just again wanted to do it
Speaker 3: my way, wanted to introduce, you know, a new way
Speaker 3: of doing it. Had no expectations on you know, superquality
Speaker 3: or it's extremely low budget film. I the first film
Speaker 3: I called Louisiana was done mainly so I could see
Speaker 3: if I could do something like this, and it was
Speaker 3: very experimental. It involved a lot of my friends and
Speaker 3: colleagues and this one as well a lot of people
Speaker 3: guests that I've had over the years on my show
Speaker 3: that some of the information had resonated with me, and
Speaker 3: I wanted to provide a variety of perspectives on topics
Speaker 3: like near death experiences, alien contact, synchronicities, dreams. I took
Speaker 3: a trip out to Skinwalker Ranch for this for this film,
Speaker 3: and I stayed at my buddy Ryan Burns. We added
Speaker 3: that in because there's a concentration of a lot of
Speaker 3: crossover activity as I call it, at places like Skinwalker
Speaker 3: Ranch that I thought maybe would help us provide answers
Speaker 3: to this, but unfortunately, it just really let me know
Speaker 3: that military exotic technology is being tested out there out
Speaker 3: the wazoo, and you can't believe anything that your eyes
Speaker 3: are showing you. It's probably a lot of exotic deception
Speaker 3: out there. But that's a different story altogether. And yeah,
Speaker 3: I got all these wonderful people together and I decided
Speaker 3: to try and put together connections between these experiences because
Speaker 3: I believe they are profoundly connected, and the most important
Speaker 3: part of that is how much our perception affects the
Speaker 3: nature of these experiences. Where we're at emotionally, mentally, our
Speaker 3: understanding of the world, our understanding of spiritual concepts, will
Speaker 3: have a heavy effect on paranormal encounters, contact experiences, contact
Speaker 3: and dreams, everything mystical and supernatural that we could experience.
Speaker 1: Basically, Yeah, the couple of things.
Speaker 2: First of all, that the part at Skinwalker Ranch is
Speaker 2: not something that like I've spent a super a lot
Speaker 2: of time looking into or I mean, obviously I'm aware
Speaker 2: of it, and I've heard, I've seen some stuff, but like,
Speaker 2: I actually was more intrigued with that part of the
Speaker 2: documentary than if someone had said, oh, there's a part
Speaker 2: about it skin walk around there, I would have been like,
Speaker 2: but actually I found it interesting. I found the gentleman interesting.
Speaker 2: And but what you said about all it does is
Speaker 2: let me know that there's a like, so much military
Speaker 2: tech going on that we can't be sure.
Speaker 3: And you know, I didn't really find out about to
Speaker 3: the extent of what I said about the military stuff
Speaker 3: till long after I had completed the film and I
Speaker 3: went back to Ryan. He gave me more information about things.
Speaker 3: He kind of opened up more than he did before,
Speaker 3: as well as some of the experiences I look back
Speaker 3: at made more sense after I had a few guests
Speaker 3: come on and tell me about their understanding of the
Speaker 3: weaponization of the paranormal At places like skin Walker Ranch.
Speaker 3: I'll tell you one thing, we were surrounded by black
Speaker 3: ops teams. The whole time we saw shadows of military personnel.
Speaker 3: They were shining lasers at us. Ryan said that no
Speaker 3: matter who is out there, you're gonna be watched, You're
Speaker 3: gonna be surveyed by these military groups. Whoever, these shady
Speaker 3: military groups are a lot of the UFOs that we
Speaker 3: saw were experimental craft. There's no way to tell the difference.
Speaker 3: And Ryan claims that he's even seen what he calls
Speaker 3: nanotechnology that can shift into creatures, and one of these
Speaker 3: creatures attacked one of his friends, and it's military technology.
Speaker 3: It's not, you know, anything truly supernatch. It's something that
Speaker 3: they've developed, and that is terrifying to me.
Speaker 2: So one of the things that I've noticed is that
Speaker 2: that there's all that military tech there does not negate
Speaker 2: the fact that there's also something that is correct that
Speaker 2: is correct, Terry, Right, So I grew up and for
Speaker 2: people who listen to show, they're probably tired of hearing this,
Speaker 2: but I'm telling you, since I'm in conversation with you
Speaker 2: where I grew up in Chatsworth, California, which is about
Speaker 2: twenty minutes from where I am right now. It's a
Speaker 2: suburb of Los Angeles in the San Fernando Valley, right.
Speaker 2: It is one of the places that gets overlooked when
Speaker 2: people start talking about the oddities of Los Angeles and
Speaker 2: get into places like Laurel Canyon or you know, JPL
Speaker 2: or whatever it is. But for me, because I'm from there,
Speaker 2: but also just because of my understanding of what's really
Speaker 2: going on there, it's actually hugely significant and probably intentionally
Speaker 2: overlooks because there's not as convenient of a story that
Speaker 2: you can weave over it as you can weave over
Speaker 2: Laurel Canyon or some of these other locations.
Speaker 1: But that.
Speaker 2: Rockadine, there's a Rockadine installation in the hills of Chatsworth,
Speaker 2: which is a very interesting geographic area. It doesn't look
Speaker 2: like the rest of Los Angeles really in any way.
Speaker 1: It has more of.
Speaker 2: A look of the Southwest, or even like what.
Speaker 1: We're told is like Mars or whatever it is to it, right.
Speaker 1: And so there's Rockadyne.
Speaker 2: It was installed in the mountain in the hills there
Speaker 2: and now it's Boeing and you know, there's been radioactive
Speaker 2: activity there fusion reactor, sorry, fission reactor there in the past,
Speaker 2: and they're supposedly building.
Speaker 1: Test rockets and this that like, I don't know why you.
Speaker 2: Would choose to do that, like in a place that's
Speaker 2: almost impossible to get to, and it's still it's still active, right,
Speaker 2: And there's a lot of stuff going on there as
Speaker 2: it relates to energy, whether it be with particle accelerators
Speaker 2: or whether it be with reactors. But it's literally built
Speaker 2: on the same land where there's an area called Burrow Flats,
Speaker 2: which is an Indian Tumash Indian sort of.
Speaker 1: Area, right like, and some.
Speaker 2: Of the most the oldest and most important cave paintings
Speaker 2: in the United States are there, as it relates to
Speaker 2: our relationship with the heavens or the stars, right, And
Speaker 2: some of the cave paintings look exactly like plasma bursts,
Speaker 2: linear particle accelerators, other kinds of technologies that we know
Speaker 2: now are thousands of years old on the wall there,
Speaker 2: and they exist in this cave called window I think
Speaker 2: it's called window rock or window cave. And on the
Speaker 2: winter solstice, the way the sun comes through the cave
Speaker 2: points exactly to the very middle of what looks like
Speaker 2: a vortex, or if you were to look at a
Speaker 2: linear particle accelerator's head on it points directly to it.
Speaker 2: And then it's got all this other stuff around it,
Speaker 2: which to me is like, if you're standing here on
Speaker 2: this alignment, this sort of other space is going to
Speaker 2: open up and you're going to see all this kind
Speaker 2: of stuff. Now it seems like, why do they do this?
Speaker 2: Why do they put weapons companies, military installations, Department of
Speaker 2: Energy facilities on these historic lands that Native Americans used
Speaker 2: to commune with the heavens and whatever it is, unless
Speaker 2: there is something there, unless they take seriously that knowledge
Speaker 2: that Native Americans have, or if the land has some minerality,
Speaker 2: some elements in it, or is some kind of portal
Speaker 2: or window that they either want to explore or that
Speaker 2: is advantageous for the kinds of activities or technologies that
Speaker 2: they're trying to undertake. And then also on the same
Speaker 2: bit of land is what's known as the Manson Tunnel,
Speaker 2: right where Charles Manson and the Manson family lived at
Speaker 2: Iverson Ranch, spawn Ranch, or all around this.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of layers of.
Speaker 2: Inconvenient activity or knowledge that has gone on on the
Speaker 2: same piece of land. So for me, it's got to
Speaker 2: be that there's something about whatever the makeup of that
Speaker 2: land is, Yeah, makes it opportune both for spiritual activity
Speaker 2: but also to learn about that spiritual activity and to
Speaker 2: create technologies that mimic it.
Speaker 3: I'll add to that because I think you're exactly right.
Speaker 3: Ryan told me some wild stories about the true natural
Speaker 3: phenomena that happens there. Some of it associated with the
Speaker 3: U tribes and the skin walker lore. Some of it
Speaker 3: is associated with magical practitioners, Satanic practitioners that enjoy going
Speaker 3: out on the lands near his place. They often these
Speaker 3: high level, high level military people will pay Ryan or
Speaker 3: aerospace companies will pay him to go and do rituals
Speaker 3: out on near the land. And there's you know, one
Speaker 3: guy that stays near there, and he is a known
Speaker 3: Satanic practitioner whatever you want to call it. And he
Speaker 3: has this light system on top of a tint that
Speaker 3: he shines in the sky at night to quote unquote
Speaker 3: attract the old ones. Yep, this guy Ryan had him
Speaker 3: stay at one of his trailers one night and this
Speaker 3: guy put all kind of sigils on the inside of
Speaker 3: his trailer. For some reason, Ryan was pissed off. But
Speaker 3: these sigils were placed in this black material. They were
Speaker 3: written in this black material that Ryan could not clean
Speaker 3: no matter what he was using. He was using water,
Speaker 3: all this chemicals, no matter what. So he went to
Speaker 3: one of his a ute medicineman friends who is also
Speaker 3: a Christian practitioner, and he said, your only way you're
Speaker 3: going to get this off is holy water. And Ryan's
Speaker 3: like bullshit, Well lo and behold, they go get some
Speaker 3: holy water. They splash it. All they had to do
Speaker 3: was splash a little on these sigils and they just
Speaker 3: dissolved into nothing, which I thought was pretty wild. They
Speaker 3: He's also told stories of well this is this is
Speaker 3: the best one. One of his security guys a few
Speaker 3: years back found these three gnarly dudes digging through one
Speaker 3: of the trailers and his security guy had some other
Speaker 3: dudes with him and they were strapped. They had weapons,
Speaker 3: and they told the people that the three guys to freeze,
Speaker 3: and when they did, they noticed they didn't look right.
Speaker 3: They had like eyeshine, like canines. They all moved in synchronicity.
Speaker 3: They all sat down like dogs at the same time,
Speaker 3: and then at the same time, they all jumped up
Speaker 3: and started lunging at these dudes, which they proceeded to
Speaker 3: open fire. They unloaded on these guys, took they These
Speaker 3: guys took a lot of shots until they eventually just
Speaker 3: turned around and started running the other way. They were
Speaker 3: leaping over fences that they shouldn't have. They were running
Speaker 3: like canines. And the wildest part is the next day,
Speaker 3: the three members of you tribe were found in three
Speaker 3: different locations behind locked doors, dead with gunshot wounds. So
Speaker 3: pretty wild stuff happens out there. And that's, you know,
Speaker 3: I believe that's really connected to some of the Native
Speaker 3: American lore that happens out there. But there's, like I said,
Speaker 3: like that's Titanic guy. There's all kinds of people who
Speaker 3: go out there to do these strange rituals and connect
Speaker 3: with something.
Speaker 1: Just that curiosity.
Speaker 2: If ever, when was the last time that you tore
Speaker 2: through the Twin Peaks series?
Speaker 3: Oh god, I had just started a couple of months ago,
Speaker 3: and then I had got busy doing something else and
Speaker 3: I fell off of it. I really need to get
Speaker 3: back into it. I was like on the third episode again,
Speaker 3: but before that I couldn't talk. I could didn't remember
Speaker 3: much about it.
Speaker 2: So I watched it as a kid when it first
Speaker 2: came out right and was sort of really taken with it,
Speaker 2: though I couldn't quite understand why. And then I watched
Speaker 2: it again a couple of years ago as an adult
Speaker 2: and having much more obviously esoteric knowledge than I had
Speaker 2: when I was like fourteen or whatever when it came out.
Speaker 2: But now I'm on like, either this is my third
Speaker 2: or fourth run through it, because I do a series
Speaker 2: with my girlfriend and with Hunter and Chris on Twin Peaks,
Speaker 2: and we're kind of attacking it from all the different
Speaker 2: perspectives and the whole story that we just kind of
Speaker 2: went through here about Skinwalker Ranch and what I told
Speaker 2: you about Chatsworth and then what you said, are these schedules.
Speaker 1: This is all stuff that's in Twin.
Speaker 2: Peaks, And I'm kind of approaching the series from the
Speaker 2: perspective like I do a lot of things, and I'm
Speaker 2: not saying that this is necessarily true, but it helps
Speaker 2: me to have like a way of understanding things that
Speaker 2: Mark Frost and David Lynch wrote Twin Peaks about Chatsworth,
Speaker 2: because actually there was a very similar case of two
Speaker 2: girls going missing and one turning up dead in Chatsworth
Speaker 2: in a very similar way as what happened in the
Speaker 2: series about a year or two before the series came out.
Speaker 2: And there's a lot of sort of similarities between Twin
Speaker 2: Peaks and Chatsworth. But what you were, you know, some
Speaker 2: of these locations where there is whether it be something
Speaker 2: from the types of trees or the types of rocks,
Speaker 2: or the bones of the Native American people that were
Speaker 2: buried there before, and maybe there's some interesting minerality in
Speaker 2: their bones or something like that, that this seems to
Speaker 2: be an area where you can open up a room
Speaker 2: or a portal, like you know, call it.
Speaker 1: The Black Lodge or whatever like like in Twin Peaks.
Speaker 2: And only now do I feel like I have enough
Speaker 2: occult and esoteric knowledge that I'm really understanding the series.
Speaker 2: And I just finally on this round three, sort of
Speaker 2: really came to understand the mechanics of the Black Lodge, right,
Speaker 2: and the mechanics of the Black Lodge are best explained
Speaker 2: in that series by the Native American member of the
Speaker 2: Sheriff's department there, right, And it basically is like there's
Speaker 2: a black Lodge and there's a white lodge, right, And
Speaker 2: you can't get to the white Lodge without going through
Speaker 2: the black Lodge. So you can't just ascend without going
Speaker 2: through the dark side. The black Lodge eats most people
Speaker 2: up because you have to face your shadow, you have
Speaker 2: to face your deepest fears. But if you, you know,
Speaker 2: make it through there, then you can join this sort
Speaker 2: of spiritual brotherhood that is responsible for much of how
Speaker 2: we experience reality, right, you know, but a lot of
Speaker 2: people give in to the excesses of the.
Speaker 1: Dark of the dark Lodge. And where the black Lodge
Speaker 1: is in the woods in Twin Peaks, there is a
Speaker 1: puddle when at the time when it can open, there
Speaker 1: is a puddle of black stuff that is some really
Speaker 1: weird substance that like smells like burnt mineral oil or
Speaker 1: whatever it is. But that is present when this happens. Right.
Speaker 2: So when you were talking about these black sigils, I
Speaker 2: bet you that they're drawn in that substance that is
Speaker 2: present when the when the black lodged open in the
Speaker 2: in the the woods, and so whatever that is, I
Speaker 2: don't know if that's the black goo, I don't know,
Speaker 2: if it's some kind of like pine tar that you know,
Speaker 2: I don't know what it is. But you know, like
Speaker 2: we're talking full on Twin Peaks here, and if you
Speaker 2: really listen to what's being said by the the character
Speaker 2: in Twin Peaks Briggs, that is the air the kernel
Speaker 2: in the Air Force. Right, that at a certain point
Speaker 2: the government realized that what they thought was like alien
Speaker 2: stuff is really interdimensional activity in the woods, and that
Speaker 2: Project blue Book is really about the transmission sort of
Speaker 2: across dimensions from from all of this kind of stuff, right.
Speaker 2: And so my guess would be that like this is
Speaker 2: there's areas like this all over the country and all
Speaker 2: over the world, right, and they always seem to be
Speaker 2: on sort of either these very sacred sort of grounds
Speaker 2: that you that have nothing going on there really like
Speaker 2: in terms of industry, or industry has co opted those lands,
Speaker 2: like I told you about rocke Din or Boeing, or
Speaker 2: often you'll get like a Department of Energy facility there,
Speaker 2: or a water treatment plant or some kind of you know,
Speaker 2: power transfer station or something like that there, and then
Speaker 2: you know, all sorts of anomalous stuff goes on, and
Speaker 2: they scare most people away by either saying there's a
Speaker 2: radiation leak there or or whatnot, but that really keeps
Speaker 2: them from coming close, and the only people who come
Speaker 2: close are people who are not scared, right, And it
Speaker 2: just sort of thins that herd. But I recommend, based
Speaker 2: on your experience with this documentary and what you've been
Speaker 2: learning from him, go check that out and you'll see
Speaker 2: like there's a situation that matches up with just about
Speaker 2: everything we've talked about here today. And that was back
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety yeah, and so you know that knowledge
Speaker 2: has been there, and you know, but people can't. We
Speaker 2: don't understand until we understand, and you don't even understand
Speaker 2: what you don't understand until you understand it.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, Yeah, I definitely would love to go and
Speaker 3: do a deep dive back into that. I've been meaning
Speaker 3: to for a long time. And it's funny you mentioned
Speaker 3: the black goo substance because I actually have an experience
Speaker 3: that we'll get to later that involved this kind of
Speaker 3: black gooish substance coming from inside me, which is pretty crazy.
Speaker 2: I've had a personal black woo experience as well, so
Speaker 2: not that surprising. I've had it around me, but I've
Speaker 2: also had it come from inside at a very specific
Speaker 2: time in my life.
Speaker 1: So very interesting. All right.
Speaker 2: What I want to do before we sort of move
Speaker 2: on into the more sort of psychedelics mushroom based portion
Speaker 2: of the conversation is I do want to talk about
Speaker 2: the sleep paralysis aspect of you, both of your documentary
Speaker 2: but also of your story, because this is another thing,
Speaker 2: another commonality.
Speaker 1: That that you and I share, and so like.
Speaker 2: Sort of from a personal perspective for you, tell us
Speaker 2: about it, and then maybe a little bit about like
Speaker 2: the different people you talk to about it in in
Speaker 2: your your your documentary and sort of what your your
Speaker 2: how your view however it is, has changed over time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're right on. I it was around the same
Speaker 3: time period that I first started looking into esoteric topics.
Speaker 3: It was about a year before. Actually it was the
Speaker 3: last year of that bad marriage before we broke up,
Speaker 3: and I was probably in my lowest state. We were
Speaker 3: arguing all the time. I couldn't get any peace. I
Speaker 3: wasn't sleeping at night, so I would try and sleep
Speaker 3: during the day I did have like an evening job
Speaker 3: or something at the time, and the experiences just started
Speaker 3: where I wouldn't be able to move, and you know,
Speaker 3: I'm just your typical sleep paralysis description. You'd wake up
Speaker 3: and a hit in the gegic state, can't move, but
Speaker 3: I just have this kind kind of feeling of dread
Speaker 3: or despair along with it. Eventually, the shadow people start
Speaker 3: showing up and it's like I can look out of
Speaker 3: the corner of my eye, I can see the kitchen
Speaker 3: and it's like there's there's a shadow people party and
Speaker 3: there's you know, people walking around in there, up and
Speaker 3: down the hall. It's like they're peeping peeking into my room.
Speaker 3: Is so creepy. All I can see is their shadows,
Speaker 3: and I know one. There's no one in my no
Speaker 3: one in my apartment at the time, and those just escalated.
Speaker 3: Every time I try to go to sleep, it would
Speaker 3: just it would wake me up, or you know, I'd
Speaker 3: come to that point where I'd forced myself awake because
Speaker 3: it becomes so terrifying. The last few times it was
Speaker 3: like so intense. It's felt like something was coming and
Speaker 3: banging through my ceiling and the shadow people just like
Speaker 3: running around my bed, coming in and out my room,
Speaker 3: banging noises on my ceiling, and I'd forced myself to
Speaker 3: wake up. Eventually, it just all went away when I
Speaker 3: kind of just got into a better state and got
Speaker 3: through the divorce, and you know, this thing's just stopped happening.
Speaker 3: I had Vicky Joy Anderson because she has just an
Speaker 3: interesting perspective on sleep paralysis. It is more of a
Speaker 3: Christian perspective, and I don't agree with everything, but I
Speaker 3: do find her studies very interesting because she interviews a
Speaker 3: lot of people who've had sleep paralysis experiences and she
Speaker 3: does a lot of comparisons, and according to her research,
Speaker 3: there's some interesting changes in people's sleep paralysis experiences as
Speaker 3: of lately where they're interacting with instead of your typical
Speaker 3: succubists or Incubis beings or shadow beings that they seem
Speaker 3: to be more cyborg like, technological or aliens type of beings,
Speaker 3: which is I find very interesting. So yeah, we feature her.
Speaker 3: I also have Daniel Rekshan who has the dream Well Institute.
Speaker 3: He chimes in a little bit on sleep paralysis, but
Speaker 3: he mostly focuses on the shamanic dreaming aspect of everything
Speaker 3: and how we can access information and dreams and entities
Speaker 3: and intelligences and bring back this information. So yeah, that
Speaker 3: was basically my sleep paralysis experiences, and I basically took
Speaker 3: away that I was because I was in such a
Speaker 3: dark state of mind that not necessarily was being attacked
Speaker 3: by demons, but my inner demons were manifesting at the time.
Speaker 3: They were showing up in a very powerful way. Because
Speaker 3: I wasn't looking at any of that stuff. I was
Speaker 3: burying all this darkness and muck deep inside and it
Speaker 3: was just coming out at that time. I believe it
Speaker 3: was manifesting like aggrigres into these shadow people. And I
Speaker 3: can't say that's everyone's experiences. That's just my understanding of
Speaker 3: the experience. And it's not to say these things didn't
Speaker 3: have an intelligence of their own, because I believe that
Speaker 3: aggrigors and the energy we can put out can take
Speaker 3: on an intelligence and life of its own, and it
Speaker 3: can be like a separate being that we're interacting with.
Speaker 3: It could have such powerful things. That's the power of
Speaker 3: our imagination. I believe we manifest this reality through our thoughts,
Speaker 3: our feelings, our emotions, our energy, and it's all part
Speaker 3: of our inner world. That comes out at times, and
Speaker 3: I believe it's also connected to It's like as above,
Speaker 3: so below we have these astral metaphysical lives that we're
Speaker 3: living on the other side that reflect the material lives,
Speaker 3: and it's like an ecosystem of intelligence is just beyond
Speaker 3: in that astral realm where we're also residing, if you
Speaker 3: know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's very The sleep paralysis from is
Speaker 2: definitely you said a lot of interesting stuff there, right,
Speaker 2: So the sleep paralysis is one of the most interesting
Speaker 2: phenomenons I think out there, right, But there is, as
Speaker 2: there are with a lot of other sort of borderline experiences.
Speaker 2: It is so much about whatever the belief system or
Speaker 2: the angle of perception is of the person who's experiencing it, right,
Speaker 2: Like a Christian person is gonna, you know, see either
Speaker 2: demons or saints or angels, depending on what their perspective is, right,
Speaker 2: Like some Christianity for me, like assumes that everything that
Speaker 2: we are not sure we know or in agreement with
Speaker 2: has to be bad. And that's my struggle with like
Speaker 2: the Christian perspective on things. Then there's also you know,
Speaker 2: a New Age scenario, which I think is a lot
Speaker 2: more religious in nature than than most people would admit
Speaker 2: that like somehow everything is is.
Speaker 1: Really for your benefit or or if.
Speaker 2: You're experiencing darkness it's because you're not thinking positively or whatever.
Speaker 1: Then you're right.
Speaker 2: And then modern day like depending on you know what
Speaker 2: media you avail.
Speaker 1: Yourself to, what.
Speaker 2: Just your your understanding of like technology and how it
Speaker 2: affects our day to day life in society, I could
Speaker 2: very well see how the people who used to see
Speaker 2: demons or angels or whatever would now see cyborgs or
Speaker 2: or aliens or whatnot. Right, it's kind of like an
Speaker 2: aesthetic shift that has happened in society.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: For for me, For me, your experience is a little
Speaker 2: bit closer to mine, and that like I wasn't I wouldn't.
Speaker 2: It seems like if to what, to whatever extent I
Speaker 2: had any interaction or any awareness of their being beings,
Speaker 2: they were seemed to be people, or even if they
Speaker 2: were in shadow, they didn't seem to be monsters or
Speaker 2: aliens or anything other than like we're like kind of
Speaker 2: slightly creepy creepy people, only creepy because you didn't know
Speaker 2: what they're doing before I tell you sort of what
Speaker 2: my experience is with that, I do want to reflect
Speaker 2: one thing, like do you think it's possible that that
Speaker 2: was layered and that this was like the first time
Speaker 2: he tried to contact you, which is and now you
Speaker 2: understand as your higher self or outside the time stream,
Speaker 2: but you didn't have any You hadn't explored all these
Speaker 2: ideas yet, so there were not so many ways to
Speaker 2: reach you other than to try to wake you up
Speaker 2: out of your sort of dead sleep, like what we
Speaker 2: try to do to our family when they don't believe
Speaker 2: us about nine to eleven, or you just like bang
Speaker 2: them over the head. You're like knocking and knocking, like
Speaker 2: trying to get at tension, and then you know, like
Speaker 2: maybe it was him then trying to say you need
Speaker 2: to make a change in your life. But like over
Speaker 2: time you made some changes and you opened up new
Speaker 2: lines of possible communication and you got yourself into a
Speaker 2: better state, and then you know it was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: now I found it's easier to communicate and I don't
Speaker 2: have to try and scare this person into changing. I
Speaker 2: can just like tell them what's going on, right, because
Speaker 2: it's possible.
Speaker 3: I look at it in two possible ways, Like I said, earlier,
Speaker 3: could be a reflection of my own inner demons coming out.
Speaker 3: I'd never thought about that. It could have been layered.
Speaker 3: It's something to consider. But the other consideration I have
Speaker 3: is because I was vibrating at such a low state
Speaker 3: and I may have been attracting parasitic type of entities.
Speaker 3: These whatever these shadow people are these because they did
Speaker 3: have this very malevolent, negative feel to them, nothing like
Speaker 3: layered ever had, which was the exact opposite. But again,
Speaker 3: it could have just been a way to shake me awake.
Speaker 3: It could have been a way to who you know,
Speaker 3: nothing else was working, so we'll scare the shit out
Speaker 3: of you. Who knows? You know that. It's all all considerations.
Speaker 2: And also, if you were in a lower state, wouldn't
Speaker 2: yourself outside of time or even your higher stealth also
Speaker 2: be at a layer or level right right.
Speaker 1: So it's just one thing to think about. I think
Speaker 1: about some of this for myself.
Speaker 2: With this as well with sleep paralysis, I've experienced it
Speaker 2: my whole life, so from the time I was really
Speaker 2: little now when you're young.
Speaker 1: I actually believe.
Speaker 2: At this point that I experienced it in the womb,
Speaker 2: and I experienced it as a baby. I did not
Speaker 2: want to sleep at all. When I was a kid,
Speaker 2: like my parents said, I was just up all night.
Speaker 2: I never wanted to sleep. I mean as a baby,
Speaker 2: and then as a youngster, like I struggled to sleep.
Speaker 1: I sometimes would be up all night in my bedroom,
Speaker 1: reading books, doing things. I was terrified to go to sleep.
Speaker 1: And a little kid doesn't have the language to say,
Speaker 1: I'm experiencing sleep paralysis.
Speaker 2: Something happens to me when I'm to fall asleep or
Speaker 2: when I'm just about to wake up, where I can't
Speaker 2: move right and whatever, and so it would be normal
Speaker 2: to just resist the condition that brings that about. And
Speaker 2: then I'd say as like maybe when I got over
Speaker 2: ten or whatever, I started to recognize it as sleep paralysis.
Speaker 2: But he didn't really talk about it to anyone until
Speaker 2: I was maybe a later teenager or early in my twenties,
Speaker 2: and then I told my when I started to have
Speaker 2: I started to have more of it, and it was
Speaker 2: became like a little scarier during a period of time
Speaker 2: when I first started experimenting with drugs, and like not psychedelics,
Speaker 2: like drugs, drugs, that's what it became super duper intense,
Speaker 2: and so I became very focused on it. For me often,
Speaker 2: very very seldom has the experience included the perception of
Speaker 2: a being early on, like some of the first memories
Speaker 2: I have when I was kind of conscious of it.
Speaker 2: It's like I said, post ten, I would feel like
Speaker 2: there was someone leaning over my bed right that I
Speaker 2: couldn't quite see, but I sensed it was there. And
Speaker 2: then other times than that, I've heard like walking down
Speaker 2: the hallway or like maybe like a little knock at
Speaker 2: the door or something like that.
Speaker 1: But I've never seen like a ton.
Speaker 2: Of beings or like that that just being bombarded by it,
Speaker 2: like what you said, And for for my whole adult life,
Speaker 2: it's always been worse when I've been in.
Speaker 1: Like on drug.
Speaker 2: I was a drug addict on and off from twenty
Speaker 2: five to forty, and then I've been cleaned for ten years.
Speaker 1: I still do psychedelics, I drink alcohol.
Speaker 2: I had a problem with with meth and the first
Speaker 2: drug go round in my early twenties whatever was with cocaine, right,
Speaker 2: And during those times of like using the amphetamine substances,
Speaker 2: it was always more frequent and more intense. And when
Speaker 2: I say more frequent, I mean like sometimes all night long,
Speaker 2: I'd be fighting off paralysis. I'd like pull myself out
Speaker 2: of it, and then I'd fall back asleep because I
Speaker 2: was so tired from the fight out of it, and
Speaker 2: it just happened again, and you know, I was like
Speaker 2: in battle, but it felt mostly physical. It didn't necessarily
Speaker 2: feel like someone was necessarily there. Recently, a couple of
Speaker 2: years ago, I had one more interesting. I mean, I
Speaker 2: still have it occasionally, but it's just physical and I'll
Speaker 2: do the like try and move my pinky and then
Speaker 2: once I can move my hand, then I'm able to
Speaker 2: pull myself out of it. But my mom died a
Speaker 2: couple of years ago, and my mom is the other
Speaker 2: person in my family who experiences it, and she died,
Speaker 2: you know, from complications from dementia and Alzheimer's, and.
Speaker 1: I thank you. I mean, she was pretty difficult.
Speaker 2: My mom was never really a happy person, and it
Speaker 2: was very difficult that last period of time. Although when
Speaker 2: she was in that dementia state and sometimes she seemed
Speaker 2: happier than she was like in her regular life. But
Speaker 2: she is the other person in my family who had
Speaker 2: that sleep paralysis, and as I've learned more about her,
Speaker 2: I recognize like was probably also like whatever is going
Speaker 2: on from me in regards to associations, to projects and
Speaker 2: mk lture kind of stuff really comes through through her
Speaker 2: and that there's a connection between these things and that
Speaker 2: on some level, you know. So I had been out
Speaker 2: here visiting with her in the hospital in the hospice
Speaker 2: for a week before she died, and then about a
Speaker 2: week or two after I went back to Austin, she
Speaker 2: passed in the middle of the night.
Speaker 1: And I was the night that she passed. I was asleep.
Speaker 1: I was having a dream about sleep paralysis. I don't recall.
Speaker 2: If I was actually paralyzed or if I was just
Speaker 2: dreaming about being paralyzed. Right, And I'm having this dream
Speaker 2: and some like some I hear voices, like just female voices,
Speaker 2: not like like people talking, and I couldn't tell if
Speaker 2: it was my mom or who it was, but I
Speaker 2: hear a female voice say.
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, we call that old hag. Right.
Speaker 2: And as soon as I as I heard that we
Speaker 2: call this old Hag, my phone rang and it was
Speaker 2: my sister telling me my mom had just died.
Speaker 1: And when I right, And.
Speaker 2: So I got on a show like later that week
Speaker 2: with Nish. I do a series with Nish, and we
Speaker 2: had one other person with us, and I started telling
Speaker 2: them that, and they're like, oh, that's actually that's the
Speaker 2: like occult or spiritual phenomenon name for the experience of
Speaker 2: sleep paralysis.
Speaker 1: They call it old Hag, which I had no idea about.
Speaker 2: And we got into some research on crones and all
Speaker 2: of this kind of stuff, and that was like the
Speaker 2: last really like significant. I mean, I still have it
Speaker 2: physically that the sleep paralysis occasionally, not very often anymore.
Speaker 2: So there is something it seems to be a like
Speaker 2: like we were talking about how being in the water
Speaker 2: or the frequency adjustment from the UFO or or the
Speaker 2: psychedelics makes like some sort of interface to communicate across
Speaker 2: or some sort of like frequency band that you can
Speaker 2: use it to sort of communicate some level of information
Speaker 2: or experience in an extraordinary state. That's I mean, that's
Speaker 2: the best like I can come to as to like
Speaker 2: it what it is. And it also feels to me like,
Speaker 2: are you ever familiar at all with like the Gateway.
Speaker 3: Experience, Gateway experience, what do you mean, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Robert Monroe, h Gateway experience. Like I've traced a lot
Speaker 2: of my experiences and and whatever I might have been
Speaker 2: involved with to that largely other stuff too, But that's
Speaker 2: something that I didn't realize until a certain point, and
Speaker 2: then once I went looking there, I'm like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: this explains this, this, this and this and whatever it is.
Speaker 2: But the technique for rolling out of your body there
Speaker 2: really looked like when I thought about the figure that
Speaker 2: I saw standing over my body, it was in that
Speaker 2: same spot and in the same way, it explained how
Speaker 2: to get out of your body.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So, I think sleep paralysis for the astral traveler or
Speaker 2: for the interdimensional explorer or whatever it is, is one
Speaker 2: sort of pathway, not the only one right out. And
Speaker 2: if you're some way like outside of I don't know
Speaker 2: what the traumatic experience that you're mentioning from childhood was,
Speaker 2: no need to talk about it or whatever. But if
Speaker 2: it's possible that you were outside of your front awareness
Speaker 2: pre loaded with the gateway experience as a kid, which
Speaker 2: I know that I was, that this could have been
Speaker 2: also something that may have been going on.
Speaker 1: In terms of the mechanics and the metaphysics of it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I would agree that in that hit and
Speaker 3: the gegic state where you're paralyzed and there's this weird vibration,
Speaker 3: it seems to be a precursor to the out of
Speaker 3: body experience from everything that I've heard, and I've had
Speaker 3: guests that are regularly able to induce those states which
Speaker 3: I have never been able to. I've tried a few times,
Speaker 3: never been able to. I've even been able to get
Speaker 3: into almost a vibratory paralyzed state, but it would make
Speaker 3: me too nervous and I would just jump out of it.
Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm ready for any of that yet,
Speaker 3: But according to some of the folks that I've talked
Speaker 3: to about their astral travels, they have to get through
Speaker 3: a layer of denser, darker beings before they can get
Speaker 3: positive black lives, white lives. So these shadow beings often
Speaker 3: are there waiting for them, and they're just there to
Speaker 3: try and deter them, and they're just either parts of
Speaker 3: their consciousness or they're these astral beings that not necessarily
Speaker 3: are malevolent or benevolent, but they appear based on where
Speaker 3: what our perception is at the time, and a lot
Speaker 3: of people who have the astral travel experience can just
Speaker 3: completely bypass the dark, negative entities and they shoot to
Speaker 3: the higher realms and they don't even have to worry
Speaker 3: about those things because they're like in a such a
Speaker 3: high vibratory state. So I find that very interesting that
Speaker 3: there are layers to these astral realms to get through,
Speaker 3: and I think that could be what we're experiencing there.
Speaker 1: I sometimes refer to characters or beings like this as
Speaker 1: boundary guards. Right.
Speaker 2: Think about this though for a second, right, like, what
Speaker 2: if the times when we experience sleep paralysis, and I've
Speaker 2: experienced it both directions I've experienced on the way out,
Speaker 2: like when you're trying to fall asleep or when you're
Speaker 2: waking up, is that maybe some of us are actually
Speaker 2: gifted trastral travelers. And most of the time it's smooth
Speaker 2: out of the body and smooth into the b body
Speaker 2: so we don't notice. And the times we have sleep
Speaker 2: paralysis is just when the alignment things like kind of
Speaker 2: like having a rough landing on an airplane or a
Speaker 2: bumpy takeoff that when you're coming back in, you just
Speaker 2: whether you know you try it was too fast, or
Speaker 2: you're in a slightly more agitated state because of the
Speaker 2: condition of your body or your psyche or whatever, it
Speaker 2: makes everything more difficult. And when I think back to
Speaker 2: like childhood, right, like if you're Even if the experiences
Speaker 2: in the astral ranged from sort of ambivalent to beneficial,
Speaker 2: it's still something like, what is this.
Speaker 1: I don't understand what this is?
Speaker 2: And it might create panic around when you know that's
Speaker 2: happening or whatever it is, and so paralysis or then
Speaker 2: fear of sleeping or whatnot is a thing. And you'll
Speaker 2: hear people talk about, oh, if you just relax when
Speaker 2: you're paralyzed, you're about to have the most incredible loose.
Speaker 1: And dream ever. Like it's really hard to be like, I'm.
Speaker 4: Paralyzed and I'm just lack real But conversely, like, maybe
Speaker 4: it really is that the other nights when it's not happening,
Speaker 4: it's we just had smooth sailing off to do to
Speaker 4: do our work right, and that this is just I mean,
Speaker 4: I was a gymnast and when everything goes well, it's fine.
Speaker 1: But when something's a little off, it's scary.
Speaker 2: And this may be something akin to you know, sort
Speaker 2: of multi you know, interdimensional multiverse gymnastics kind of.
Speaker 1: Kind of thing.
Speaker 2: Right, So yeah, but it is interesting to hear everyone's
Speaker 2: different perceptions about what it means.
Speaker 3: And I whenever I look back at my psychedelic experiences.
Speaker 3: They would be so profound and so unreal and so dreamlike,
Speaker 3: but it would be when I was in the experience,
Speaker 3: it was real, as this reality is more real than
Speaker 3: this reality. I was there, I was experiencing, I'm communicating
Speaker 3: with this, I'm doing whatever I'm doing. But when I
Speaker 3: come back, it's like it just fades away, that realness
Speaker 3: fades away, and it's just, oh, that was just like
Speaker 3: that was just a vision that I had. It wasn't
Speaker 3: really real, but there was something real about it. And
Speaker 3: I can remember certain dreams that feel the exact same way.
Speaker 3: I'm in it. It's so real, I'm there, the information
Speaker 3: is coming through, but when I come back, it's like, oh,
Speaker 3: that was just I can't, you know, grasp onto that
Speaker 3: element that it was very real at the time. And
Speaker 3: I think that and I also have a problem remembering
Speaker 3: my dreams. I do smoke marijuana, so that's probably has
Speaker 3: a lot to do with not being able to remember
Speaker 3: some of my dreams. Although every once in a while
Speaker 3: I'll get this profound memory of one or I'll have
Speaker 3: this really vivid dream, but not as often as I
Speaker 3: used to. And after my psychedelic experiences, I'm able to
Speaker 3: hold the connection with my higher self and get information
Speaker 3: whenever it comes through. And that always happens before I'm
Speaker 3: going to sleep. Whenever I'm lying there ready for sleep, layer,
Speaker 3: it'll come along higher self and just start giving information.
Speaker 3: I no longer use the mushrooms, the psychedelics. It's been
Speaker 3: quite a few months. I will go back if called to,
Speaker 3: but it's only for very you know, if, like I said,
Speaker 3: if it just calls to me. And it hasn't for
Speaker 3: a while, so I haven't really gone back and visited
Speaker 3: those realms. But I spent the better part of three
Speaker 3: and a half years, every single month digging into my
Speaker 3: psilocybin garden and taking about four to seven gram doses
Speaker 3: once a month and going extremely deep into into the
Speaker 3: psyche and doing some major work there. So that is
Speaker 3: what really changed everything.
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, hope you enjoyed the first part of my
Speaker 1: recent chat with Chris Matthew from Forbidden Knowledge News. If
Speaker 1: you'd like to hear the rest of the more than two.
Speaker 2: Hour conversation, head on over to pay or Locals following
Speaker 2: one of the links below. You'll also find a discount
Speaker 2: code for a free month on Locals and links to
Speaker 2: free weeks at two different levels on Patreon. I also
Speaker 2: recommend you go check out Forbidden Knowledge News, as well
Speaker 2: as Chris's excellent new documentary The Doors of Perception. All right, guys,
Speaker 2: we'll see you on the other side. Thanks a lot,
Speaker 2: Bye bye,