Speaker 1: Thanks for tuning in to another show in the next
Speaker 1: real family of film podcasts.
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Speaker 1: and discover all the other great perks that come with it.
Speaker 3: It's collaborating time, everybody.
Speaker 2: The film board gathers once again to take on the
Speaker 2: biggest cinematic releases of the.
Speaker 3: Month, and this one is a doozy.
Speaker 2: Marvel's First family finally gets their AIMCU did you with
Speaker 2: a film that skips the origin story and jumps straight
Speaker 2: into the cosmic parenthood, vintage suits, and the surprisingly emotional
Speaker 2: showdown with.
Speaker 3: A planet eater.
Speaker 2: It's the Fantastic Four. First Steps famous around the world.
Speaker 4: Please welcome the Fantastic Four, Mister Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Human Torch.
Speaker 5: I love you, Johnny and the Thing.
Speaker 6: Hey, what time is it?
Speaker 3: Say today?
Speaker 5: That's not really something I say.
Speaker 1: It's coppering time.
Speaker 5: That's just in the cartoon. Never late for Sunday dinner.
Speaker 5: Let's see. Hey, what time is it? It's dinner time?
Speaker 5: Get insoide.
Speaker 7: I harald his beginning, I harald your end. I Harald Galactus.
Speaker 5: What is that?
Speaker 8: Get us out of here?
Speaker 6: Man, hold on, always safe. I don't know. The club
Speaker 6: is ticking.
Speaker 5: We are going to find a solution. We are going
Speaker 5: to make it right. You don't want to just crush him,
Speaker 5: hide that.
Speaker 8: The four of us will face the danger.
Speaker 6: We will protect you.
Speaker 5: Family.
Speaker 2: It's about connecting to something bigger than yourself.
Speaker 3: Who face it together.
Speaker 2: As a family. Good evening, Ladies and chance, boys and
Speaker 2: girls and all you have cats tuned into the future
Speaker 2: of film. It's time once again for your favorite think
Speaker 2: tank of cinematic truth seekers.
Speaker 3: The Film Board.
Speaker 2: Gathered tonight to go atomic on Marvel's Groovus Gamble yet
Speaker 2: fantastic four First steps. Now hold the phone and cool
Speaker 2: you jets, because we've got the bosses panel and the
Speaker 2: biz first up. He's a real space brain with a
Speaker 2: rocket pack of hot takes and a utility beltful of sass.
Speaker 2: You know him from Swashbuckling Ladies, Debate Society, and Marvel
Speaker 2: Movie Minute. It's the one, the only Kyle Olsen.
Speaker 6: Hey there, cats and kittens, happy to be here there,
Speaker 6: talk about the Big four.
Speaker 2: Next coming at you. Faster than a Gamma burst and
Speaker 2: sharper than a slide rule. He's the maestrove the Marvel
Speaker 2: Movie Minute and Editor Supreme give it up for Rob Cabasco.
Speaker 8: Hey, I see what you did there.
Speaker 2: Very nice, and don't flip your wig, because we've got
Speaker 2: a mind melter of against joining the round table. They're
Speaker 2: the king of the Conscience Crowd, the Professor of Powell
Speaker 2: from Superhero Ethics and all points moral.
Speaker 6: It's Matthew Fox.
Speaker 8: There it is, there it is.
Speaker 2: I'm beat Wright, your guide through this technicolored tale of
Speaker 2: stretchy Dad, sizzling siblings, invisible mothers, and big galectic guys
Speaker 2: with even bigger appetites. So grab your phosphate, pop your collar,
Speaker 2: and settle in because this one's.
Speaker 5: Going to the moon.
Speaker 2: Hi, Hi, folks, is really great.
Speaker 3: Look we're doing.
Speaker 8: This is a.
Speaker 2: Cavalcade of superhero films that we have this month. It's
Speaker 2: a banner month in this year, twenty twenty five. We're
Speaker 2: here Fantastic four. We've done Fantastic four before as Humanity.
Speaker 2: I have the Corman version on my plex server. Let's
Speaker 2: talk though about this one, and I think before we
Speaker 2: dig into the really nerdy stuff, I think we should
Speaker 2: just pull the band aid off and get our opening
Speaker 2: thoughts out of the way about the film. How did
Speaker 2: it stack up for you? Matthew, you go first.
Speaker 9: Sure, I'm going to ask a further thing that we mentioned,
Speaker 9: which is that what is your connection to the Final
Speaker 9: Four before this? Because I'll say, I think all of
Speaker 9: you have at least seen other movies, probably read comic books.
Speaker 9: I knew almost nothing of the Final Four going in.
Speaker 9: I knew who they were, I'd seen maybe twenty minutes
Speaker 9: of one awful movie, never read a comic book, you know,
Speaker 9: not seeing much beyond that. And I would give this
Speaker 9: movie a solid B. I think this movie did a
Speaker 9: fantastic job of introducing me to the characters of the
Speaker 9: Fantastic Four, making me really care about them and make
Speaker 9: me really be excited about them in the MCU. And
Speaker 9: then it tried to have them go on an adventure,
Speaker 9: and that actual adventure I found kind of lackluster. Galactays
Speaker 9: I thought was pretty dull. A lot of it was
Speaker 9: very boring, and I think I fundamentally disagreed with the
Speaker 9: main ethical question of this movie, which as a new
Speaker 9: parent is kind of interesting.
Speaker 8: But we'll discuss that. So, uh, okay, you guys go next.
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, Rob, this.
Speaker 10: Is an outrageously fantastic movie with outrageously amazing moments. It's
Speaker 10: not without flaws and some wild coincidences with the previous
Speaker 10: superhero movie we discussed, so we'll talk about that. Here's
Speaker 10: here's the coming out of the movie. Did I like
Speaker 10: it better than The Thunderbolts by a smidge? Do I
Speaker 10: like it more than The Incredibles?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, the Incredibles high esteem?
Speaker 3: All right, Kyle.
Speaker 6: I guess I come in as the most learned I
Speaker 6: guess of the Fantastic Four lore because I've been a
Speaker 6: fans of them since the comic books. I've read almost
Speaker 6: everything that they have done, watched all the cartoons, and
Speaker 6: I've seen all the movies, including the Corman one. So
Speaker 6: I come in with a lot of baggage, and I
Speaker 6: felt this was one of the best Marvel sequels to
Speaker 6: a movie we never got. So I agree, I have
Speaker 6: some moments of amazingness, but I also I really regret
Speaker 6: what we didn't get to see.
Speaker 9: As the person who knew the least about it, I
Speaker 9: loved that it wasn't an origin story, but we'll talk
Speaker 9: more about that.
Speaker 2: I agree, I feel like the I enjoyed my time
Speaker 2: in the theater, with this movie. I really did, and
Speaker 2: I walked out, and two hours later I had to
Speaker 2: really really think about how it ended. I could not,
Speaker 2: for the life of me remember the third act. I
Speaker 2: got there eventually, but I think that's sort of telling
Speaker 2: about what stuck in the movie and what as a
Speaker 2: superhero action film did not really lock in for me.
Speaker 2: As much as I enjoyed my time with it. And
Speaker 2: we'll talk about our big bad, the biggest of the
Speaker 2: big bads in a bit.
Speaker 7: I.
Speaker 2: Feel like there were some empty calories going on in
Speaker 2: this movie after a wonderful setup. So with that all
Speaker 2: out of the way, if you're listening to this and
Speaker 2: you haven't seen the movie, you pretty much get how
Speaker 2: it ends by looking at the trailer.
Speaker 3: You could figure it out.
Speaker 2: This is a spoiler full conversation. We do nothing but spoilers,
Speaker 2: So if you really don't want to be spoiled in specific,
Speaker 2: please go watch the movie and come back.
Speaker 3: You have been notified, all right.
Speaker 2: Let us do our comic our comic allegiance segment I
Speaker 2: and I didn't I mention I am a fan of
Speaker 2: Fantastic for I have not encyclopedic like Kyle, but I
Speaker 2: did read a bunch of the comics spent more time
Speaker 2: with the animated series the Hanna Barbara bit, and so
Speaker 2: I can say that I have I have some of the.
Speaker 3: Some of the spirit, but not inclusive. So I get it.
Speaker 2: I do love it, and I love what the Fantastic
Speaker 2: for represent as a family, which I would love to
Speaker 2: talk about and how well that transitions to screen.
Speaker 3: So Kyle, you want to kick us off here.
Speaker 6: Sure, I mean, I'm I'll give you a full sort
Speaker 6: of bile might give you like a little bit of
Speaker 6: sort of my understanding of Fantastic for It is obviously
Speaker 6: Lean Kirby came out with this. This they were they
Speaker 6: would call the first family because they were the first
Speaker 6: thing that Marvel ever put out. This is what sort
Speaker 6: of defined what the Marvel style was, which is taking
Speaker 6: this fantastic adventures and space gods and surfers in silver
Speaker 6: and also having a human drama at the center of it.
Speaker 6: From this came X Men, Spider Man all that stuff added.
Speaker 6: But like this is sort of where Stan and Jack
Speaker 6: first established what became sort of the House style, and
Speaker 6: then a franchise was born from there. They have struggled
Speaker 6: because once LeAnn Kirby sort of stopped rinning it and
Speaker 6: hand off. It's been a series of handing off to
Speaker 6: people who either get it or they don't get it,
Speaker 6: and so their comic book history is more littered with
Speaker 6: people who didn't understand what was interesting about the Fantastic
Speaker 6: for than people who did. So there are moments where
Speaker 6: they really shine at a lot more moments where they don't,
Speaker 6: and so a lot of what comes the problem is
Speaker 6: is that they aren't superheroes, and even this movie sometimes
Speaker 6: that they are adventurers, they are explorers. They are much
Speaker 6: closer to Flash Gordon and Doc Savage than they are
Speaker 6: to Spider Man and Captain America. Because they're in a
Speaker 6: superhero universe, they keep getting pulled into superhero circumstances and
Speaker 6: then it never quite fits right. And this movie, I
Speaker 6: think is an example of it doesn't quite fit right.
Speaker 6: They have the family in Anames right, but they still
Speaker 6: don't They still trying to fit into the tropes that
Speaker 6: the MCU has established, and like from the first trailer,
Speaker 6: I was like, Ooh, I don't know if they got it,
Speaker 6: in the same way where I watched James Gun's trailer
Speaker 6: for a Superman. As we're making this comparison and when
Speaker 6: he got it, like he understood what Superman was in
Speaker 6: a way, and I was worried that this would happen,
Speaker 6: and it kind of did. It's like, for now, four
Speaker 6: times they've done it, and they've never quite gotten it,
Speaker 6: right that because they keep trying to make them into
Speaker 6: something that they aren't.
Speaker 2: Well, and I would I would say this is the
Speaker 2: best of the four times for me, Yes, I would
Speaker 2: agree with that. But yeah, I think the thing that
Speaker 2: I that I'm challenged with is that my first exposure
Speaker 2: to the Fantastic Four introduced a family that was deeply flawed,
Speaker 2: right that they were dysfunctional. And I love the way
Speaker 2: you put it that their adventure is not heroes, that
Speaker 2: they are dragged into this because of circumstance and never
Speaker 2: quite embrace it. They just they just exist in this
Speaker 2: space kind of reluctant hero. Trope writ large And I
Speaker 2: think this, you know this movie actually, particularly through Pedro Pascal,
Speaker 2: I think they get some of the vibe of like, hey,
Speaker 2: I'm just a scientist man, and I think he pulls
Speaker 2: it off maybe better than anybody else.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, Matthew, you were gonna say something.
Speaker 9: No, I would add to that. First of all, you
Speaker 9: agreeed on the peedro Pascal. A hero who stretches sounds
Speaker 9: incredibly boring to me, and I really liked that. It
Speaker 9: was just a cool effect sometimes but mostly his superpower
Speaker 9: is his brain and his dedication and also the flaws
Speaker 9: that came up. I love that about his character. But Kyle,
Speaker 9: what you said is, I will say in that regard
Speaker 9: for me, as someone who knows only this movie, it
Speaker 9: totally failed because and this I think will deeply affect
Speaker 9: the ethical questions I'm gonna get into later. I definitely
Speaker 9: saw them as not only is being superpowered people, but
Speaker 9: like I'm always really interested in what authority do people
Speaker 9: have to do superhero things? And it felt like in
Speaker 9: this world there was an agreement they had with the
Speaker 9: governments of the world that they would be given certain
Speaker 9: dispensations and freedoms, and like, you know, if they go
Speaker 9: to some country that no one's gonna check their passport
Speaker 9: because they're just gonna be like, you're here to defeat
Speaker 9: the monster and we're not gonna worry about feral d.
Speaker 9: You know, there was an agreement that they had not
Speaker 9: the Zirkoba Accords by any means, but something that they
Speaker 9: were empowered by the governments of the world to do
Speaker 9: these things and thus expected by the governments of the
Speaker 9: world to do these things, And as we'll talk about later,
Speaker 9: I think that fundamentally changes how we understand the decisions
Speaker 9: they had to make regarding Franklin. So it's really interesting
Speaker 9: to me to hear that, because that is as someone
Speaker 9: very new to this, absolutely not what I got from
Speaker 9: the story. What I got in the story was they
Speaker 9: are the Avengers, they are the Justice League. They are
Speaker 9: empowered by the world to do these things.
Speaker 6: Yeah, which I think does not serve them well. I
Speaker 6: think if you're put in for any sort of any
Speaker 6: Star Trek kind of scenario of like high science and
Speaker 6: then high ethical kind of questions, which is what they
Speaker 6: tried to do, it gets interesting. But when you try
Speaker 6: and do that in the superhero genre, it doesn't quite
Speaker 6: work because, like, the Avengers only got to be the
Speaker 6: Avengers for one movie, and after that they're immediately like, oh,
Speaker 6: there are a great heroes. Now, let's immediately tear them
Speaker 6: down and tell them apart and make sure they never
Speaker 6: are together again. Whereas this we have a world that
Speaker 6: goes these guys are amazing we love them, will follow
Speaker 6: anything they do, We trust them implicitly. And I was like, oh,
Speaker 6: this is really cool. Like we've never really seen this
Speaker 6: in any modern superhero, even even in Superman, which you know,
Speaker 6: I think we bring up just because of high proximity
Speaker 6: of time. They the superheroes around and they they don't
Speaker 6: have that same kind of relationship. Even they don't quite
Speaker 6: trust Superman at this point, but here, like everyone immediately
Speaker 6: entrusts them, and then immediately that's taken away. It's like,
Speaker 6: but could we live in that world a little bit
Speaker 6: longer like this because we haven't seen that before. But no,
Speaker 6: immediately the world turns on them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I like I really agree with all of that.
Speaker 2: I'm struggling a little bit because with the Superman comparison,
Speaker 2: they had been superpowered sort of people. Meta humans had
Speaker 2: been around so long that there was enough time for
Speaker 2: the Vox POPULARI to split. So you have some heroes
Speaker 2: that were beloved and some that were not, and Superman
Speaker 2: is mistrusted and for a time. But you know, corporate
Speaker 2: sponsorships are what they are, and branding is what it is,
Speaker 2: and so there's a much more sort of sophisticated emotional
Speaker 2: tapestry for the public in Superman, and I think that
Speaker 2: that works well for I think what they're trying to
Speaker 2: do with that movie and that universe this one, I'm
Speaker 2: with you. I loved the fact that we had given
Speaker 2: over the sort of allegiance to this superpowered team because
Speaker 2: they were you know, they too like Superman. They exist
Speaker 2: in a world with lots of malcontents, and the nods
Speaker 2: to Mollman and Red Ghost and Mad Thinker and puppet
Speaker 2: Master and Diablo, all of those.
Speaker 6: Are really great.
Speaker 2: We live in a time and there are bad things
Speaker 2: that manifest in the form of individuals who are you know,
Speaker 2: doing their thing. What we get with Moulman, which is
Speaker 2: a you know, I think that's that is the most
Speaker 2: legacy evil doer in the Fantastic Four.
Speaker 3: That's like Fantastic four number one.
Speaker 6: There's even an Oma, but I don't know how many
Speaker 6: she is. But the of the first cover of the
Speaker 6: first comic, they like literally have that in opening sequence
Speaker 6: of the Green Monster coming out of the thing, that's
Speaker 6: that's the cover. I was like, Oh, they really aren't
Speaker 6: going all the way with it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's cool, right they did. I think they did
Speaker 2: it really well. And the fact that they gave agency
Speaker 2: to the relationship of Mollman and his people his domain. Uh,
Speaker 2: you know, to not just be an evil doer he had. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he wasn't just modul was a little bit more complex,
Speaker 2: not a lot more complex, but a little bit. He
Speaker 2: was also a plot tool. So so I liked that stuff.
Speaker 2: I didn't find that to be And I also found that,
Speaker 2: you know, the things we talked about with Superman, the
Speaker 2: fact that they evacuated the city before they destroyed it.
Speaker 3: I was thinking about Rob.
Speaker 2: The whole time when buildings fell, buildings fell, right, I
Speaker 2: didn't have any problems with But Rob is just Rob
Speaker 2: is just nodding there, and it makes me nervous, like
Speaker 2: I can't stop talking.
Speaker 3: No, I like he's about to do his thing.
Speaker 8: I am enjoying, enjoying.
Speaker 10: I'm enjoyed this, know, Like I gotta tell you, I
Speaker 10: looked at this so much from show me the story
Speaker 10: you want to tell. And the thing that is amazing
Speaker 10: about this is we have this talk. In Superman they
Speaker 10: showed they didn't tell that montage, which, by the way,
Speaker 10: kudos to Michael Giaccino. That song, which is from the
Speaker 10: Score Fantastic four to be reckoned with that's the name
Speaker 10: of the sequence during the montage is one of his
Speaker 10: best pieces of music I have ever heard. It has
Speaker 10: been on repeat ever since the soundtrack dropped that whole montage.
Speaker 10: That's what I wanted Superman to do. If they would
Speaker 10: have done that, it would have done huge benefit to
Speaker 10: that story. In this story, it's great. Here's the weird
Speaker 10: issue I had with the first act, which is a
Speaker 10: little bit about the story of the family. It was
Speaker 10: almost too brilliant. That montage is so good. The casting
Speaker 10: on this movie is so good. I felt like the
Speaker 10: first act was lagging. And I will tell you what
Speaker 10: it's missing is tell me the same background story of Galactus,
Speaker 10: because that's where I'm failing to understand. Like I know,
Speaker 10: I'm here if you want to hear my one of
Speaker 10: my controversial statements is I got Kang Quantumania vibes with
Speaker 10: the way that they treated Galactus in this movie. And
Speaker 10: that's what's missing in the first act is you know what,
Speaker 10: after you've done showed me the montage of the of
Speaker 10: the family, Now go hyperspace to the other end of
Speaker 10: the universe and show me the story so that at
Speaker 10: least I can understand what we're dealing with, and that's
Speaker 10: something that was lacking. I think of the first act.
Speaker 6: I had that same problem because I got to the
Speaker 6: point where they're in hyperspace on their way to confront Galactus,
Speaker 6: and it was like, I little thirty five minutes forty
Speaker 6: minutes in the movie, and I was like, when does
Speaker 6: this movie start? Because I was still sort of in
Speaker 6: the Okay, we we had like the domestic scene and
Speaker 6: then the montage and then and then the reaction and
Speaker 6: then the and I was like, is this is this
Speaker 6: really yet? Like is this actually happening?
Speaker 10: Okay, so here so wait's so the thing the thing
Speaker 10: I just want to say about this whole issue with collactuses.
Speaker 10: He was presented as a giant grail Night zombie.
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm gonna need more. Okay, yeah, break that down.
Speaker 8: The grail Night, the Grail Night from the Last Crusade.
Speaker 10: He is somehow the keeper that is waiting for someone
Speaker 10: to pick up where so he can end and he's
Speaker 10: a zombie. He's got to eat. I like, that's all
Speaker 10: I got from this and that's and that's missing. They
Speaker 10: need to help tell his story better because I know
Speaker 10: that there's a whole there's a whole answer to all this,
Speaker 10: It's just not in this movie.
Speaker 8: Yeah, So I'm have.
Speaker 9: Kind of two minds on this. On the one hand, Kyle,
Speaker 9: I think you have me convinced to some extent that
Speaker 9: a first movie could have been really helpful because I
Speaker 9: don't want an origin story.
Speaker 6: But I but no, I don't. I don't either. But
Speaker 6: it was like when they when they did that montage
Speaker 6: of like, here's all the bad gys we just defeated,
Speaker 6: I was like, I would have liked to have seen that.
Speaker 5: Please.
Speaker 9: Well, yeah, I mean, first of all, I think Momn
Speaker 9: is just a far more interesting enemy than Glacdus has
Speaker 9: presented here, Glactus is presented here. It seems like the
Speaker 9: most boring enemy that the MCU has ever given us,
Speaker 9: which is so fruct sound like you're supposed to be
Speaker 9: so much more. But I wanted to see more of Yeah,
Speaker 9: what is I wanted to see? This movie is all
Speaker 9: about the break with the relationship we've established, and I
Speaker 9: think that in Superman it wasn't needed because and granted
Speaker 9: this is more what I like. I spent the last
Speaker 9: couple of months leading up to the Superman movie watching
Speaker 9: Superman Superman and Lois and watching the earlier movies, and
Speaker 9: I think there is so much other content that's not
Speaker 9: in this universe, but that is out there that Roman.
Speaker 9: So I have seen Superman healing everybody and doing all
Speaker 9: those things in a way that I haven't seen the
Speaker 9: Fantastic Four doing the flip.
Speaker 8: Side though.
Speaker 9: That'll give is that I do think it's possible to
Speaker 9: both introduce characters and really spend a lot of time
Speaker 9: showing them as they are before showing the break. And
Speaker 9: I think it happened in the unfortunately very ignored in
Speaker 9: his conversation. Third really important, really good superhero movie that
Speaker 9: came out in July, which is K Pop Demon Hunters,
Speaker 9: which I think is phenomenal and you haven't watched it.
Speaker 8: Definitely do so.
Speaker 9: Yeah, it is very much superhero movies, which is not
Speaker 9: an American superhero movie, but in that they spend in
Speaker 9: part because they don't they wait till like halfway through
Speaker 9: the movie to really introduce the Okay, now the public
Speaker 9: is churning on them. Now they're turning on each other
Speaker 9: kind of thing. Uh, and we'll mane. You see the
Speaker 9: seeds of it, you see it coming. Like I think
Speaker 9: if they had done something like that, were like there
Speaker 9: had been some scene like the surfer had appeared but
Speaker 9: hadn't given the full message, or like we'd seen some
Speaker 9: and maybe there's not enough time to do that in
Speaker 9: this movie and that Yeah, maybe it could have been
Speaker 9: a earlier movie. But I actually I think it's possible
Speaker 9: they just didn't do because yeah, by the time that
Speaker 9: the public was also mad at the Fantastic Four. I
Speaker 9: think I know what the relationship is, and I think
Speaker 9: I know what Galactus is, but you're right, we hadn't
Speaker 9: really gotten into detail about it.
Speaker 2: The challenge I think I have with Galactus, and I'm
Speaker 2: willing to acknowledge this.
Speaker 3: This might be a me thing.
Speaker 2: I know the comic legacy of Galactus, and if you
Speaker 2: look at the Galactus trilogy, right, the sort of source
Speaker 2: material from the sixties, I know that we get galactus backstory,
Speaker 2: and he talks about it in this movie that he
Speaker 2: was immortal and there and which was.
Speaker 6: A shock to me of like like like hey, I
Speaker 6: just met you. Yeah, here's where he's right from. Like WHOA, yeah,
Speaker 6: we're good.
Speaker 2: This is the city.
Speaker 6: We haven't even told your names yet, You're already.
Speaker 2: Giving eternal segment of the of the thing. I get
Speaker 2: that there exists backstory that that does support the fact
Speaker 2: that Galactus was a mortal explorer and was co mingled
Speaker 2: with the sentience of the universe and became Galactus and
Speaker 2: now just has to feed to sustain his existence. All
Speaker 2: of that I understand. And yet my Galactus from when
Speaker 2: I was a lad reading these things contemporaneously, was Galactus
Speaker 2: was the joker to Batman. Galactus was the inevitability of
Speaker 2: doom that we must adapt to in order to fight,
Speaker 2: and backstory did not matter. And I felt like this
Speaker 2: movie walks that the edge of trying to define too
Speaker 2: much when it maybe should have defined less, uh not
Speaker 2: less so much that you know, what was the Transformer
Speaker 2: movie where the planets were being eaten by the Unicorn story?
Speaker 2: But I but something akin to that, because going into
Speaker 2: this movie, I had no idea how they were going
Speaker 2: to make Galactus feel real and resonant and were they
Speaker 2: going to make it something that I was going to
Speaker 2: be able to care about. And the challenge was they
Speaker 2: almost made me care more than I should have for
Speaker 2: something that should have been omnipresent a moral destruction.
Speaker 9: Right, And I think that's great because if a central
Speaker 9: part of the movie is the Fantastic Four and the
Speaker 9: world trying to decide what to do about Galactus, I
Speaker 9: think I think that becomes worse the more they know,
Speaker 9: if they because if they can like the fact is,
Speaker 9: they don't sympathize with him. They don't know his motivations,
Speaker 9: they don't know his origin story. They just know they're
Speaker 9: going to die. And and I like that because I don't.
Speaker 9: I think most moral decisions are not made with full information,
Speaker 9: and that's worth discussing, and like, in some ways, if
Speaker 9: they'd framed it like that, I think you could have
Speaker 9: gotten the explore if it had been Hey, right now,
Speaker 9: from what we know, there's this terrible ethical choice, but
Speaker 9: we're explorers.
Speaker 8: We want to learn more.
Speaker 9: We learn more about Galactus, and that helps us kind
Speaker 9: of get out of this Kobashi maru of either the
Speaker 9: baby or everyone and find a third choice.
Speaker 8: I think that would have been a fantastic lead to
Speaker 8: approach it.
Speaker 6: There was a torch Wood mini series where a bunch
Speaker 6: of aliens showed up and they they said, oh, hey,
Speaker 6: we've got this amazing technology. We can help solve pretty
Speaker 6: much all your problems. And they and they prove it,
Speaker 6: like they like, we can do this. All we want
Speaker 6: is half and they're like, oh, but what do you
Speaker 6: mean half of your children? We just want half and
Speaker 6: we will solve all the world's problems. And that escalates
Speaker 6: over the course of the of the entire world, going
Speaker 6: what do we do with this? And they took like
Speaker 6: six episodes. I think of that too, and it gets
Speaker 6: into it here they try and resolve the whole thing
Speaker 6: in like twenty minutes, and I kind of went, well,
Speaker 6: but there's a lot bigger conversations. For me, it sort
Speaker 6: of lost it. When they go to Glactus. He says
Speaker 6: I want the kid and I'll spare your world and
Speaker 6: they have that thing. They said, oh, now I'm gonna
Speaker 6: take care it and I'm gonna make you watch And
Speaker 6: I was like, wait, no, he's cruel, He's malevolent, right,
Speaker 6: he just doesn't like Glactus's thing is he doesn't care,
Speaker 6: Like he literally just doesn't care. He is he is
Speaker 6: that force of the universe, like, no, I'm I'm just
Speaker 6: going to eat your planet the end. I am the end.
Speaker 6: So yeah, when it sort of became like I was like, oh,
Speaker 6: but no, that's that the just and he just becomes
Speaker 6: fanos but big.
Speaker 2: That's that was the biggest problem right there.
Speaker 9: I would say, since we're kind of dancing around it,
Speaker 9: can I just bring up the ethical question that seemed
Speaker 9: to be at the center of this, because it does
Speaker 9: seeven a what we're talking about, it is how it's
Speaker 9: how it's framed. I don't even be a backstory to
Speaker 9: my own perspective on this. Uh so we're just scussing.
Speaker 9: Before we went on the pod. My partner recently had
Speaker 9: our baby. I have been a father for exactly two
Speaker 9: weeks as of today, and one of the hardest moments
Speaker 9: for me was maybe ninety minutes after our baby was born.
Speaker 9: Because there's a possible infection, they had to do a
Speaker 9: bunch of blood draws. They took the baby into another room.
Speaker 9: I was the only one who went in there with him,
Speaker 9: and I was kind of holding him while they were
Speaker 9: doing this, and they weren't doing a very good job,
Speaker 9: and they were sticking him and not get it, and
Speaker 9: he didn't like it, and he was upset. And I
Speaker 9: am a person deeply committed to nonviolence, and I have
Speaker 9: never been so close to throwing a punch as I
Speaker 9: was at age twelve getting bullied. The lizard brain in
Speaker 9: me was so ready to fight this, and of course
Speaker 9: that was all I could think about in this movie.
Speaker 9: But the thing is, I don't think that's a good
Speaker 9: part of humanity. I think one of the worst things
Speaker 9: we do is when our desire to protect, to defend
Speaker 9: what is ours, our partners, our children, our property, leads
Speaker 9: us to be willing to like throw away everybody else.
Speaker 9: And I won't get too political about it, but I
Speaker 9: think that's a huge Like a lot of the fear
Speaker 9: mongering is about, like, your children are under attack, so
Speaker 9: everybody else because we have to protect your children, your parents.
Speaker 9: I think if the final question is do you give
Speaker 9: up your individual child to save humanity? And I would
Speaker 9: say I also understood it as and this is maybe
Speaker 9: something that again the comic books were clear on, but
Speaker 9: here it wasn't.
Speaker 8: I understood it.
Speaker 9: As you give Glacknus the baby, he stops and there's
Speaker 9: no one else who take It's not that the baby
Speaker 9: becomes Glacktus two point zero, No more worlds are destroyed.
Speaker 9: For me, that's absolutely not a question. Of course you
Speaker 9: give up the baby. Of course you do. It's horrific
Speaker 9: and terrible and awful. But and here's also where they
Speaker 9: are the official you know, like if you're a fire,
Speaker 9: if you're a firefighter and you're a fire and there's
Speaker 9: ten people in one room you can save or your child,
Speaker 9: and the other you're supposed to save the ten. And
Speaker 9: maybe that's not fair, and maybe that's not that, but
Speaker 9: that's generally why we don't have people fight fires in
Speaker 9: neighborhoods that they're in, And especially in the sense of
Speaker 9: like to me, if if if the governments of the
Speaker 9: world have said you are our saviors, then that's your
Speaker 9: responsibility more than it is to one individual soul who's
Speaker 9: obviously the most important thing in the world to you.
Speaker 9: And I really liked Sue's speech about like we need
Speaker 9: you to not give up on us, but we also
Speaker 9: won't give up on you.
Speaker 8: But it also felt like they were kind of like.
Speaker 9: I wish they had wrestled with that more and wrestled
Speaker 9: more with what is our is our responsibility to each
Speaker 9: other or to this larger hole and how do we
Speaker 9: balance that? And and coming to a way of like
Speaker 9: can we find a third way? But I think the
Speaker 9: movie was acting as though, of course they won't give
Speaker 9: up their baby why in the world would they That's
Speaker 9: not even a question worth discussing.
Speaker 8: And for me, I was like, well, hang on, hang on.
Speaker 9: I I think more than anyone can understand how the
Speaker 9: visceral level, why it would be almost impossible.
Speaker 8: To do that. But why.
Speaker 9: I think if the whole world it had been like
Speaker 9: we're taking that baby and saving five billion fere people
Speaker 9: or whatever it is, I wouldn't think they're wrong. If
Speaker 9: any members of Choptech and Services are listening to this,
Speaker 9: please don't take me to aby away.
Speaker 8: I'll protect my baby, I would say. My only my
Speaker 8: own response that is that I understand what you're saying.
Speaker 10: I'm not sure that every ethical uh test of is
Speaker 10: under the same context. So it's one thing to say,
Speaker 10: you know, if a firefighter has the the sworn responsibility
Speaker 10: to save ten versus the one, yes, regardless of who
Speaker 10: the one is, where the ten are right. But in
Speaker 10: this narrative, if you witnessed a machine that could eat
Speaker 10: a planet from the inside out, my first thing was
Speaker 10: is deals are off the table, Like deals are laughable
Speaker 10: at that point, right, So yeah, we're gonna fight because
Speaker 10: when faced with global annihilation on a system that we
Speaker 10: don't even understand.
Speaker 8: Yeah, we're going to fight, and I have no issues
Speaker 8: with that, with that choice.
Speaker 9: Well, and I think to be clear, the question is
Speaker 9: I'm phrasing it that I think the movie won us
Speaker 9: to talk about but then kind of didn't. Is only
Speaker 9: if you believe the deal, and you believe, like if
Speaker 9: you believe that Franklin will just go on to be
Speaker 9: Glackty's two point. Oh no, no, it's not ethinctly worth it.
Speaker 9: If you believe that Glackness would be like, cool, I
Speaker 9: have the baby, but I'm still gonna eat y'all because
Speaker 9: like you're tasty.
Speaker 8: Then yeah, of course it doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 2: But that, interestingly is a premise that I didn't walk
Speaker 2: away understanding the way you did. My understanding was you
Speaker 2: give me the baby, and I will let earth, this
Speaker 2: earth survive. I'm gonna go on and I'm gonna keep
Speaker 2: eating things, and Franklin, because of his cosmic future, is
Speaker 2: gonna take over my mantle so that I can rest.
Speaker 2: Eventually those things are gonna continue. So really you're saving
Speaker 2: You're giving up the baby to save just you Cosmically,
Speaker 2: that's the deal, and that's where the deal ends. I
Speaker 2: also think for a summer blockbuster popcorn movie wrestling with
Speaker 2: a question of should we really give up the baby?
Speaker 2: Any harder than they did would have been catastrophe.
Speaker 6: For the reason this is what my my main problem
Speaker 6: with this is that like just to step back from
Speaker 6: even from the moral question of why does Fantastic four
Speaker 6: first steps which one's terrible title, uh have to take
Speaker 6: this on? Well, I say, fantastic maybe four no first
Speaker 6: steps where of what to wear? No, they had, like
Speaker 6: clearly in the olpening seat, We've established they have already
Speaker 6: taken their first steps. This is step four or five.
Speaker 6: But there's so much lore to go immediately from like, hey,
Speaker 6: you're media Fantastic four and now they have a kid,
Speaker 6: and it's like, but you're skipping all of this stuff,
Speaker 6: all of this interesting thing why like it was it
Speaker 6: was it was almost greedy to me of like they
Speaker 6: wanted so valid to get to like we gotta get
Speaker 6: Solver served, we gotta get to Glacs, we gotta get
Speaker 6: to frankly Richer's I'm like, but but you're skipping all
Speaker 6: of this stuff, this great stuff, to get us to
Speaker 6: the point where we care because we never get to
Speaker 6: see this sustorm the most amazing sustorm we've ever had.
Speaker 6: We only get to see her as a mom, never
Speaker 6: get to see her as the invisible woman. Obviously she's
Speaker 6: a visible girl because the sixties, but the we never
Speaker 6: get to have her as just like it. She's already
Speaker 6: matronly by the time we meet her. We never get
Speaker 6: to see her as just like a regular person and
Speaker 6: not in the role of mom, you.
Speaker 2: Know, like the I mean from the jump too. I
Speaker 2: mean that we meet her on the toilet with the
Speaker 2: pregnancy test.
Speaker 10: Hey wait, by the way, I'm glad you just mentioned that.
Speaker 10: Did all of you see the pregnancy test on the
Speaker 10: counter and think for a second it said Stark, No,
Speaker 10: it's Stork.
Speaker 6: I think it did, but I got to tell you I.
Speaker 8: Was at one point Stark industry is pregnancy does? What
Speaker 8: kind of universe is this?
Speaker 9: I mean, Tony doesn't go on to become a superhero,
Speaker 9: so clearly he just starts making stuff.
Speaker 8: I agree with you.
Speaker 9: I don't think a summer blockbuster is the time. I mean,
Speaker 9: I would love a summer blockbuster that you know, uh
Speaker 9: wrestle these theopathical questions. I'd also love the Jets to
Speaker 9: win the Super Bowl. I think both of those are
Speaker 9: equally never gonna happen in my lifetime. I think that, Yeah,
Speaker 9: but I think that's why, Like, to me, it just
Speaker 9: felt weird that they pose that question without wrestling out
Speaker 9: because to me, the other part of it is I
Speaker 9: definitely didn't get the idea that like he would.
Speaker 8: Go on to eat other worlds. I thought this would
Speaker 8: end his hunger.
Speaker 9: But also like, if the idea is, well, it's wrong
Speaker 9: to just save humanity and some other planet, what about
Speaker 9: wherever they're teleporting him to, like their planets out, He's
Speaker 9: going to be hungry, He's going to find some other planet.
Speaker 8: It's just not gonna be humanity. So yeah, I yeah,
Speaker 8: I kind of.
Speaker 9: Wish they hadn't brought up that level of ethical nim
Speaker 9: in a format where obvious it's the wrong place to
Speaker 9: wrestle with it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, when they studs up and they start talking about it,
Speaker 6: there is a a a fantastic worcenario where Red figures
Speaker 6: out how to cure glacus Is hunger, and so you
Speaker 6: get to meet Galactus as a person who as a
Speaker 6: space god who no longer has this central defining thing
Speaker 6: and what does that mean that? I was like, Oh,
Speaker 6: are they doing that I'm like, oh no, they're just
Speaker 6: going back to that.
Speaker 9: Okay, that would have been great maybe because all of
Speaker 9: you knew more about this, But I've been avoiding spoilers
Speaker 9: like the plague, especially when I found out that our
Speaker 9: DJ was coming back as Doomsday. That seems so stupid.
Speaker 9: I was just not thinking about it for a minute.
Speaker 9: I thought the way this was setting up was how
Speaker 9: they get to six one six. We all did because
Speaker 9: I thought, what has happened? They send Galactus to there,
Speaker 9: and then they have to be like, oh, we just
Speaker 9: sent it to another Earth we have to go through,
Speaker 9: and now we're gonna end up with Avengers to take
Speaker 9: on Galactus again.
Speaker 6: I thought they were going to teleport Earth to six.
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, I thought, or whatever they call it.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's what I thought it originally, like it was
Speaker 6: gonna something was gonna go wrong in the in classic
Speaker 6: read fashion, and they would end up in a different universe.
Speaker 2: Alas, and I don't think that question is answered even
Speaker 2: as we connect, and I think we you know, this
Speaker 2: movie is playing the hits of Fantastic Four, and those
Speaker 2: hits are Silver Surfer, Galactus, and Doctor Doom. So let's
Speaker 2: look first at Silver Surfer. This is Julia Garner's Silver Surfer.
Speaker 2: I actually thought Silver Surfer was a real high point.
Speaker 8: I agree with you.
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed Julia Garner's take on it. I enjoyed
Speaker 2: even the flashback montage. I think she did a really
Speaker 2: nice job kind of portraying the Harold thoughts.
Speaker 6: I did not have a problem with Silver Surfer, and
Speaker 6: I thought that was the high point of the previous
Speaker 6: two films, The Fox Ones too, when the combination of
Speaker 6: Doug Jones, you know, one of my favorites, and Laurence
Speaker 6: Fishburn together, I thought that was that character was fantastically
Speaker 6: rendering that in a movie that he was in fact,
Speaker 6: that he was better than the rest of the movie
Speaker 6: that was around this too. But to get back to
Speaker 6: this head, to switch over to from norm Rad to
Speaker 6: Shalla Bell was a great idea because you get to
Speaker 6: see the character in a new way. And I thought
Speaker 6: pretty much everything they did with her worked fantastically and
Speaker 6: we got to have the her the fact that Johnny
Speaker 6: was the smart one to do, which was what a
Speaker 6: great toy that was that we'll come to around to
Speaker 6: the four. We haven't really talked about the four. Having
Speaker 6: Johnny be the one to induce a moral waundry with her,
Speaker 6: like basically like, hey, you're complicit in the depths of
Speaker 6: the like that was his big move. I was like,
Speaker 6: that's a missising, Like honestly, like, even now, what.
Speaker 10: A great sub story, what a great subplot, and it
Speaker 10: and it elevates that character in a way.
Speaker 8: You never said it was.
Speaker 6: And it was so frustrating that it took so long
Speaker 6: for her to come back around too, because the whole
Speaker 6: fight with Galactus, I'm like, come on, come on.
Speaker 10: Well, no, they wanted you to forget. They wanted you
Speaker 10: to forget about her. So the so the moment is
Speaker 10: even better than what you expected.
Speaker 1: She was.
Speaker 8: But I love her character and everything about her.
Speaker 9: And oddly enough, I'm the ethesist is gonna be the
Speaker 9: first one to bring up visual effects having her I
Speaker 9: don't know if this was normal, but having her not
Speaker 9: only be silver but being fundamentally reflective led to some
Speaker 9: of the most.
Speaker 8: Brilliant shots in the movie.
Speaker 9: And to me, the first one was one of the
Speaker 9: first time is that she's chasing Johnny and he's basically
Speaker 9: created the circle of fire that she is flying through,
Speaker 9: and so the flames are.
Speaker 8: Reflected in her.
Speaker 9: I if you can give me a poster of that,
Speaker 9: I'd put it up because it was just such a
Speaker 9: brilliant like, it was such a brilliant visual effect. And also, yeah,
Speaker 9: I loved what they did with Johnny and her because
Speaker 9: it I feel like you told me so much about Johnny,
Speaker 9: because it told me that, yes, he is the party boy,
Speaker 9: he is all these things, but he's also smarter than that,
Speaker 9: and he's not a himbo.
Speaker 8: He has some real brains to him.
Speaker 9: But also why is it that he goes on this
Speaker 9: journey of like wanting to show that he could figure
Speaker 9: all this out because the pretty girl rejected him, Like
Speaker 9: obviously there's a lot more going on there. But also
Speaker 9: he was trying to hit on the silver Surfer and
Speaker 9: she had nothing to do with him, and he's like, well,
Speaker 9: I can learn the language now, And like I thought,
Speaker 9: there was such a brilliant way of not making him
Speaker 9: a joke, not making him a Oh here's the three
Speaker 9: serious heroes and he just wants to drink beer. They
Speaker 9: didn't make him like you know that version of the
Speaker 9: flash that we see so often, He wasn't a party boy.
Speaker 8: Was just like yeah, I just thought he was phenomenal
Speaker 8: in that he.
Speaker 6: Went full Barney Sinston Bernie Stinson from of like having
Speaker 6: to like, I'm gonna do all of this work just
Speaker 6: to try and get this one girl to like me. Oh.
Speaker 2: I feel like if this is a John Hughes movie,
Speaker 2: he would have been John Cusack right like this is.
Speaker 3: It would have been great.
Speaker 8: But you all know who that actor is, right where
Speaker 8: we've last seen.
Speaker 3: Him, No Stranger Things, He's yeah, oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 8: Which knocked me off because it's such.
Speaker 2: A bridge so different. Yeah, astounding that.
Speaker 6: On all the kudos.
Speaker 10: That is a different take on him that we've seen
Speaker 10: in the previous Fantastic Four movies, and there was depth
Speaker 10: to it, and I love that. I mean now again
Speaker 10: that you know, creating an entire new uh rubric to
Speaker 10: come up with a whole new language translation is probably
Speaker 10: a little bit outside of his intellect, but I'm just
Speaker 10: gonna ignore that, and that's fine.
Speaker 8: It was worth it.
Speaker 2: We're talking about about human Torch, and let me just
Speaker 2: say He's Human Torch was always my favorite of the
Speaker 2: Fantastic for it.
Speaker 6: Oh okay, yeah, for me, it was the thing.
Speaker 3: The thing was yours.
Speaker 2: Well, and now that now that the thing grows a beard.
Speaker 2: This is great good uh, but but they there were
Speaker 2: some bits of shorthand, like the fact that the fire
Speaker 2: never uh had to worry about his clothes.
Speaker 3: It was just a great little bit of short end.
Speaker 6: I can't believe in this movie they never said the
Speaker 6: word unstable molecule right like that was like, that's a
Speaker 6: fundamental things.
Speaker 2: Foundational to the cosmic energy. But since we're talking about
Speaker 2: the four, let us uh do the rundown, so starting
Speaker 2: now or I guess second with dad mode Mandalorian Uh.
Speaker 9: Pedro Pascal's read Richards, there will come a day when
Speaker 9: I see Pedro Pascal in a role that I don't
Speaker 9: instantly fall in love. That day has not yet come.
Speaker 9: His speech of about how he can't stop thinking about
Speaker 9: the worst case scenarios was just to for me, like
Speaker 9: I was the person who when we were like we
Speaker 9: tried really hard to have this child who took three years.
Speaker 9: We almost went to like a lot of medical intervention stuff,
Speaker 9: and about halfway in the pregnancy, I had to find
Speaker 9: the right moment to bring up, what are we gonna
Speaker 9: do if something goes wrong, if there's some terrible choice
Speaker 9: we have to make, and my partner was like, I
Speaker 9: don't want to think about that, and I was like,
Speaker 9: I know, I know, I can't stop thinking about that though.
Speaker 9: And so I've never identified so much, granted probably because
Speaker 9: I'm a new father, but like I just thought, and
Speaker 9: he made that role believable. He made it believable that
Speaker 9: he was a leader. But because of his just who
Speaker 9: he was, not because he was dictatorial or something like that.
Speaker 9: I believed him being the most brilliant, like incredibly brilliant. Yeah,
Speaker 9: I just I just thought he was like fantastic in
Speaker 9: that role.
Speaker 10: I would just say it took us what maybe six
Speaker 10: movies to get to the sweet, vulne honerable core of
Speaker 10: Tony Stark. It took twenty eight minutes to do it
Speaker 10: with mister fantastic.
Speaker 8: Yeah. Yeah, and that's amazing.
Speaker 10: Kudos to Pedro Pascal for this because it's outstanding and
Speaker 10: the writing, let's not forget the dialogue is what did it?
Speaker 8: Oh?
Speaker 9: Yeah, I was or another Tony Stark And that really
Speaker 9: showed me this is not that true character.
Speaker 8: This is a very different character.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you hire a Paedro Pascal, you get a Pedro Pascal,
Speaker 6: You get what you pay for. But that was I
Speaker 6: guess my thing is that it was so in his
Speaker 6: wheelhouse that it was for me, like it was like, oh, okay,
Speaker 6: so this is just the Mandalorian and last of us.
Speaker 6: I mean, like, this is just you're you're just playing
Speaker 6: the same like where we know that he has this
Speaker 6: and he was watching on SNL and you see this
Speaker 6: entire other range that he's not getting to do anymore
Speaker 6: because these now the Internet, sad Dad, So that's all
Speaker 6: he gets to do. And that bummed me out a
Speaker 6: little bit because Reid is more than that. And I
Speaker 6: mean there's sort of fundamental things that I think of
Speaker 6: as being part of Reid's character that aren't in this
Speaker 6: at all. So I had a hard time sort of
Speaker 6: connecting it back to sort of the read Richards that
Speaker 6: I sort of understood, but no shade on his performance.
Speaker 6: I'm sure that's what they were that's what they were
Speaker 6: going for and the idea in the same way that
Speaker 6: when they established Spider Man in the MCU and had
Speaker 6: him be a science geek, I was like, Oh, yes,
Speaker 6: that's what a brilliant take. I never thought of, Like, oh,
Speaker 6: is that a mechanical arm like that?
Speaker 7: That?
Speaker 6: I was like, oh what, I never thought of that,
Speaker 6: but it fits perfectly, and having him as the person
Speaker 6: who thinks of all the worst things in the world
Speaker 6: try to fix it absolutely tracks. But it was all
Speaker 6: this other stuff of like, well, he's not a good husband,
Speaker 6: like historically not a good husband, not a good leader,
Speaker 6: like he is constantly distracted and in his own head,
Speaker 6: and but also has like verbal diarrhea. He just like
Speaker 6: will talk and talk and talk and talk, and the
Speaker 6: idea that he's just the silent, brooding guy. I was like, oh,
Speaker 6: that doesn't quite line up for me. But it was
Speaker 6: you know, once again, interpretations of characters and you have
Speaker 6: to sort of you know, get in head like like, oh,
Speaker 6: this is what their version of it is, not what
Speaker 6: it's not about me.
Speaker 2: Doesn't make it wrong, doesn't make it wrong. Yeah, yeah, we.
Speaker 8: Al's talk for a moment.
Speaker 9: But I would have loved to see more of him
Speaker 9: as the bad teacher, you know, the teacher who is
Speaker 9: just himself so fascinated by his subject that he cannot
Speaker 9: fathom and that's cannot reach people who don't get the subjects.
Speaker 8: Like we got ten seconds of that.
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, that is and that is one hundred percent
Speaker 6: like built into his character and it like almost never
Speaker 6: shows up. Vanessa Kirby a Sue Storm. I The thing
Speaker 6: I regret when you talk about the fact that there
Speaker 6: was there's a first movie out there that we haven't seen,
Speaker 6: is that one of my favorite origin like Getting the
Speaker 6: Powers stories is Siue storms because her powers are crazy
Speaker 6: and I think figuring out, what's this? What is this
Speaker 6: energy that I can make shields and I can influence
Speaker 6: others and I can be invisible, And here she's already
Speaker 6: in complete control.
Speaker 3: Of everything that she can do.
Speaker 2: And I missed the charm of watching her figure it out,
Speaker 2: and that was something, honestly, I'm going to say, Jessica
Speaker 2: Alba I think did pretty well in the clumsiness and
Speaker 2: chaos of figuring out how to be who Storm that
Speaker 2: said peak dad moment for me was her saying you
Speaker 2: got to stop writing these tests. You want to see,
Speaker 2: let's see and just showing the baby inside her own uterus.
Speaker 2: I thought that was extraordinarily cool. What an incredible visual effects,
Speaker 2: flat flex and a great emotional beat.
Speaker 10: I'm going to tell you, flat out, I think she
Speaker 10: steals the show. Chalk this up to another one of
Speaker 10: my coincidences between this and Superman. The female lead for me,
Speaker 10: was pitch perfect to the character more so than almost
Speaker 10: everybody else. She is absolutely incredible. The moment where she
Speaker 10: says where they're having the conversation, when she's having it
Speaker 10: with Read, when he's talking about I'm manic and you
Speaker 10: know who I am, and she looks at him and says, again,
Speaker 10: sometimes who.
Speaker 8: You are hurts.
Speaker 10: If you're a spouse, if you have a spouse who
Speaker 10: has to deal with your manicness and you and your chaos.
Speaker 10: That is one of the most profound pieces of dialogue
Speaker 10: I've seen in a Marvel movie ever. It is outrageous.
Speaker 10: And the way she does it, Yo, I can't imagine.
Speaker 10: There's nobody else I can imagine playing that role in
Speaker 10: that movie. That is a huge testibatory.
Speaker 9: It's phenomenal, especially because I don't want to try this
Speaker 9: in a group therapy, but I assume all of us
Speaker 9: may have to subcent these issues.
Speaker 8: But for me, especially like yes, that moment.
Speaker 9: Hurts, But what hurts far worse is the partner who
Speaker 9: won't say that. The partner says, no, it's fine, it's fine,
Speaker 9: and you can see that your manicness or your depression
Speaker 9: or whatever it is hurting them and you don't know
Speaker 9: how to stop, and they won't ignow, and so like
Speaker 9: to me, it felt like such an act of love
Speaker 9: and of trust her to say that, Yeah, I think
Speaker 9: I only loved.
Speaker 8: He as a character. She was a character I really
Speaker 8: cared about.
Speaker 9: I did not, for a second believe that she was
Speaker 9: going to die, and so I was very annoyed at
Speaker 9: that uh moment.
Speaker 8: I think mostly what I was feeling, though, was how
Speaker 8: her character made me feel.
Speaker 9: How nineteen sixties this whole thing was to the point where,
Speaker 9: honestly I felt in a world of Bechtel tests. I
Speaker 9: thought the Silver Surfer was going to join them by
Speaker 9: the end, just so she'd had another woman around.
Speaker 8: You know, because yeah, it did feel like she got uh.
Speaker 9: I've spoken about with Jessica Plumber on my Superherotic show
Speaker 9: about how like in some of the not so good
Speaker 9: runs of Fantastic Four, she is very much even if
Speaker 9: there's not Franklin around, but she's like a mother to
Speaker 9: her husband and her little brother and to Ben, and
Speaker 9: that that's not her best side. And so I agree
Speaker 9: with you, like seeing her only as pregnant and then
Speaker 9: mother of a newborn child, what that speech she gives
Speaker 9: to the crowd about how they need they need to
Speaker 9: understand that they won't sacrifice the baby, but they also
Speaker 9: won't Sack provides Earth loved, absolutely loved every moment. To me,
Speaker 9: that's exactly where like a superhero perspective should be.
Speaker 6: And she and then she gets and then she is
Speaker 6: has long been. It was sort of like like Pete
Speaker 6: was talking about had long been, just like, oh, she
Speaker 6: can turn a visible and she can put up a shield,
Speaker 6: and that was it. And then it was sort of
Speaker 6: as the thing went on, they went like, well, what
Speaker 6: if there's no limit to what she actually can do?
Speaker 6: And so her power has grown and so now she
Speaker 6: is regarded in the regular comedy as one of the
Speaker 6: most powerful people out there. And so to see that
Speaker 6: on screen she goes toe to toe with a space
Speaker 6: god and pushes him back. I mean, there's some great
Speaker 6: interestinct and great acting stuff too, but that is a
Speaker 6: pure conflict moment, and that with what I was absolutely
Speaker 6: thrilled about is having her exert her will and push
Speaker 6: Galactus down the street. That is like whoa wait exactly, And.
Speaker 8: I don't want to take away from that at all.
Speaker 9: I think it's great sometime for you that you have
Speaker 9: to do some homework for a movie, But for me,
Speaker 9: going into it not knowing at all meant utterly nothing.
Speaker 8: Because I didn't know.
Speaker 9: I like, oh, okay, that's like I mean there, I think,
Speaker 9: maybe Kyle, you're really making me around if i'd seen
Speaker 9: a movie about her learning that power and wrestling that
Speaker 9: power and not thinking that she had that power but
Speaker 9: among other things, the like you know you can lift
Speaker 9: a car off your baby, because that's what it does
Speaker 9: her baby, her family is in danger. That's how she
Speaker 9: finds that power. I think, Yeah, I love that they
Speaker 9: had that. For the people who knew the characters. I
Speaker 9: wish they'd done more to set it up for.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's that's this is why I felt like there
Speaker 6: was just a missing movie because the same thing with
Speaker 6: now would come to the thing like one of my
Speaker 6: all time favorite characters, and so they they absolutely got.
Speaker 6: I think they great casting. The effects were amazing. The
Speaker 6: fact that he actually looked at that and growing the
Speaker 6: beard with it was just a fun twist too, but fantastic.
Speaker 6: He was already sort of past all of the stuff
Speaker 6: that like like Rob was talking about with with Tony
Speaker 6: starks Ark. He was pasted all of it and just
Speaker 6: sort of like, well, this is what my life is.
Speaker 6: I'm like, but I don't want Ben to suffer. And
Speaker 6: Ben Grimm is as a nice guy who's affable and
Speaker 6: everybody gets along with is great, but there also is
Speaker 6: a sadness to him that they only kind of show
Speaker 6: with him sadly looking in windows. But that's it, like,
Speaker 6: you know, like so they sort of I feel like
Speaker 6: for Johnny too. Johnny was a himbo who like just
Speaker 6: was a party boy, like you see the Copper Tone
Speaker 6: ads U two and then eventually grows and becomes worthy,
Speaker 6: and so that's where we meet him, and the same thing.
Speaker 6: Sue as ignored. Obviously she's the way and you know,
Speaker 6: the housewife has to take care of them all, and
Speaker 6: then moving into being the most powerful, you know, potentially
Speaker 6: of the group. We missed all that, so like we
Speaker 6: we meet them after all their character arcs are finished,
Speaker 6: and so it's it's so it's a little bit like, Okay,
Speaker 6: you're you're having to and that's why I felt bad.
Speaker 6: I'm like, I feel like everyone has to catch up
Speaker 6: to what they're doing now and without knowing any of
Speaker 6: the stuff that came before. And it's the movie stumbles
Speaker 6: right out of the doing that.
Speaker 2: The ben Grim bit is the most interesting one to
Speaker 2: me because the Ben Grimm transformation is one of great grief. Right,
Speaker 2: everyone else can pass, right, there is a passing motif.
Speaker 2: You can choose not to stretch, mister fantastic, You can
Speaker 2: choose to just be not invisible, you can choose to
Speaker 2: not be on fire. You cannot choose not to be
Speaker 2: made of rhyme. Right, but just to ask exactly exactly
Speaker 2: it is something completely different, and I think missing that
Speaker 2: that is, that's doing a little bit of short shrift
Speaker 2: to future implementations of Ben Grimm. In the movie, we
Speaker 2: don't have his sad backstory in order to see what
Speaker 2: he's accomplished to be able to become a hero in doomsday,
Speaker 2: in wherever he goes from here. And I also I
Speaker 2: share that regret because that was that's always one of
Speaker 2: my favorite sort of adaptation stories.
Speaker 6: He still gets up and does the job anyway, that's
Speaker 6: my thing. Like you, he can never go back, he
Speaker 6: can you can't even buy regular clothes, and yet he
Speaker 6: still gets up and punches Galactus in the face.
Speaker 3: And also Natash she Leone was here one of.
Speaker 10: The most powerful moments in the entire movie, for Ben
Speaker 10: is when they are at the dinner table and she
Speaker 10: and he realizes that she's pregnant. Let me tell you something,
Speaker 10: those eyes is one of the most expressive CGI moments
Speaker 10: ever in the history of CGI. Yes, because if you
Speaker 10: know the backstory of the characters, you know that's his
Speaker 10: moment where he realizes, Oh, I love you. And if
Speaker 10: case Matthew didn't know that, right, there's a whole backstory
Speaker 10: to that, and that's the moment where he realizes and
Speaker 10: now we're done, and now I bury those emotions for
Speaker 10: the rest of for the rest of my existence. Oh
Speaker 10: you know, mean he loves her like says he loves
Speaker 10: yes at some point.
Speaker 9: Yeah, oh yeah, that's no, no, no, I understand.
Speaker 8: But for those who know that moment, yeah.
Speaker 6: Shout out to Hylem or whatever of the fifteen specified
Speaker 6: companies because it's so subtle and the fact that we
Speaker 6: can get to that point where a big stone guy
Speaker 6: silently you can see that read the emotions on his face.
Speaker 6: I don't know that was pution capture or whatever it was.
Speaker 6: I took a team, I know, but yeah, that was incredible.
Speaker 6: Just they would just cut back to him and he
Speaker 6: just him like waiting for Johnny to catch up, just
Speaker 6: like okay.
Speaker 2: Like right, the fact that we have it in the
Speaker 2: person of even Moss Backrock, who is a such an
Speaker 2: incredible performer, and we already know for fans of the Bear,
Speaker 2: just what incredible range this guy has as a performer, stunning,
Speaker 2: stunning turns from.
Speaker 9: I don't think it was in any way coincidental that
Speaker 9: they introduce him knowing that background and the first thing
Speaker 9: he does is taste something in a kitchen and talk
Speaker 9: about it.
Speaker 8: That was like, hey, Bear fans are for you.
Speaker 9: Okay, okay, Yeah, And I will say there's one other
Speaker 9: thing where they made a lot more progress than anything
Speaker 9: I've ever seen, but I wish they'd gone just a
Speaker 9: little further. The MCU is been really bad about Jewish representation.
Speaker 9: You know, we have Megnieto for sure, but uh, you know,
Speaker 9: Wanda is supposed to be both Jewish and Romani that
Speaker 9: that's been taken out.
Speaker 8: I thought Moonlight Moonlight was really great, but some people were.
Speaker 9: Thrilled about it, and so the fact that he goes
Speaker 9: into a synagogue I thought was a really nice moment.
Speaker 8: I didn't love that.
Speaker 9: She then says, be good, why are you here, and
Speaker 9: he says, I'm here for you Because to me that
Speaker 9: like it does that means he's finding Jewish community, not
Speaker 9: necessarily that he himself was Jewish. I wish it had
Speaker 9: been more like, because this is where my community is
Speaker 9: and you're here something, but still being that explicit about
Speaker 9: linking him to Judaism I really appreciated, and like, I
Speaker 9: think this is not unkline. To me, that's not the
Speaker 9: most important about his character. It's unline everything else you've
Speaker 9: talked about. But for me, as a person of Jewish family,
Speaker 9: like that is something I care about a lot, and
Speaker 9: I was very happy that that did not get kind
Speaker 9: of swept on somebody.
Speaker 10: Wait a minute, I think you misinterpreted that she says
Speaker 10: that because he's delayed connecting to her, because what they
Speaker 10: what the imply is that they have that first that
Speaker 10: first moment where she comes across the street talks to
Speaker 10: him and says, well, yeah, come on over, and then
Speaker 10: they show you where he's not doing that, and it's
Speaker 10: implied that months go by. When he shows up, she
Speaker 10: says that to him because she's begging him to say me,
Speaker 10: that's actually why she says that it's not it's not
Speaker 10: an insult, it's a well it took you, it took
Speaker 10: you long enough.
Speaker 8: I get all that.
Speaker 9: I'm just saying that I wish they had done just
Speaker 9: a little more to show that that's not the only
Speaker 9: reason he's going into a synagongue.
Speaker 6: At that moment when everyone's thinking they should die.
Speaker 8: I do.
Speaker 2: I do wonder what the intention is of of Ben's
Speaker 2: sort of romantic path going forward, because it's not a significant.
Speaker 3: Part of this movie.
Speaker 2: It was a Tuesday afternoon for Natasha Leone and uh,
Speaker 2: and yet Ben Grimm's efforts to find love again our legion. Like,
Speaker 2: I love the whole concept, the conceit of Ben Grimm
Speaker 2: finding himself and find being able to be comfortable in
Speaker 2: a relationship. They've done that before and it's awesome. And
Speaker 2: I think this movie was already packed full, and we
Speaker 2: didn't have a lot of Johnny. I mean, Johnny's sort
Speaker 2: of a romanticizing Silver Surfer is plot, right, Like, that's
Speaker 2: that's pot This is not plot. This is a side story,
Speaker 2: and I don't know that we needed it. I wonder
Speaker 2: if natashe Leone is going to get a gonna get
Speaker 2: a run in a later film.
Speaker 3: I don't know. It seemed like wasted space to me.
Speaker 6: It seems like Kat Deennings has done well for herself
Speaker 6: after her one, her one Marvel movie and then don't
Speaker 6: think it's so maybe people like then she'll be back.
Speaker 6: And it was just because even though I was very
Speaker 6: obviously n Leone, she was so different than the Oh
Speaker 6: I forgot. I forgot what a good actress you are.
Speaker 6: I keep thinking that you're just playing yourself, but no.
Speaker 2: She's wonderful. She's wonderful, and yeah, no disrespect to Natati Leone.
Speaker 2: What I wanted was more or nothing. What we got
Speaker 2: was just too much of a tease for me, for
Speaker 2: the nerds looking at you, Kyle, any of your favorite
Speaker 2: Easter eggs? Like anything that we got in this movie.
Speaker 2: That felt like, this is fan service, this is a
Speaker 2: love note.
Speaker 6: Well, a couple of things I haven't figured. I don't
Speaker 6: I haven't watched, Like I'm sure New Rock Stars has
Speaker 6: a whole breakdown at this point, but apparently the actors
Speaker 6: from the from the Roger Corman are in it somewhere.
Speaker 2: Did you see several times there's there, Yeah, there media
Speaker 2: there is that what it is yeah, okay, yeah, okay, yeah, and.
Speaker 10: There's there's one of the clips when the bubbles come
Speaker 10: out where people saying thank you Fantastic for us. There
Speaker 10: the four of them are in one of those shots,
Speaker 10: in addition a few other voice.
Speaker 6: I knew, I knew they were somewhere, but I didn't
Speaker 6: know exactly where. That was a Herbie. Okay, So, for
Speaker 6: those who don't know the sixties cartoon, the executives the
Speaker 6: time thought we can't have show a person on fire
Speaker 6: because kids might then set themselves on fire to be
Speaker 6: like the human toy. Which so the human Torch was
Speaker 6: not allowed to be in the Fantastic four cartoon and
Speaker 6: was replaced with a colorful, cute robot named Herbie. And
Speaker 6: so the fact that they actually have Herbie as a
Speaker 6: character who very wally, doesn't have a voice, but is
Speaker 6: very expressive, I thought was a nice way to have
Speaker 6: him there and actually give him some stuff to do.
Speaker 6: They give him like plot he's doing he's building the crib,
Speaker 6: like he's doing all that work. And I love tape. Yes,
Speaker 6: they swap out and the magnetic tape spinning nice future
Speaker 6: classic technology thing timely comics. They do a shot of
Speaker 6: such what we're meant to think is probably Stanley and
Speaker 6: Jack Kirby in Timely Comics, which was what Marvel preecessor
Speaker 6: was with the drawing boards. I'm sure there's probably some
Speaker 6: original Kirby's sketches in there. If you if we go
Speaker 6: back and look and then and then come back to
Speaker 6: it once again, Kirby does not get enough love. Then
Speaker 6: if you say the end credits, you find out the
Speaker 6: reason it's called eight to eight is because that is
Speaker 6: Jack Kirby's birthday. That is why this is a two eight.
Speaker 6: So I thought that was a you know, it would
Speaker 6: be nice if they had done a little bit more
Speaker 6: like in the movie rather than like making weight through
Speaker 6: all the other people, to be like, hey, this is
Speaker 6: the guy who literally created the look for all these characters.
Speaker 6: But something's better than nothing, and it is progress that
Speaker 6: Marvel is making and acknowledging their creators. And it's a
Speaker 6: big list at the end of people who have made
Speaker 6: significant runs in Fantasico and done into good job, which
Speaker 6: I thought was ships that Darsky was really shocked that
Speaker 6: his name was in it. Yeah, it was, like I was.
Speaker 6: But so those are my favorites.
Speaker 8: If I can jumptory in there.
Speaker 9: I thought that was particularly nice because granted, Stanley isn't
Speaker 9: alive anymore, but for so long, like Stanley was in
Speaker 9: so many Marvel movies in some way or another, and
Speaker 9: so and I always have felt that, like it really
Speaker 9: has felt like Stanley Jack Kirby and so having this
Speaker 9: movie specifically call out, uh Kirby.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and this is the most Kirby thing we've ever seen,
Speaker 6: Like this is closest to his original design. I mean,
Speaker 6: Michael check was like to define job, but like his
Speaker 6: costume was not great.
Speaker 9: I heard that Ben Graham is kind of the closest
Speaker 9: that Kirby has ever come to putting himself into a
Speaker 9: comic book.
Speaker 2: I think that if they had gone any more hard
Speaker 2: on Kirby fandom, they would have just c ged Kirby
Speaker 2: for a Canada, which.
Speaker 6: I think I would not have hated it, you know,
Speaker 6: I mean, you know, stan Lee got that mural in
Speaker 6: was it far from Home or whatever? Like the thing,
Speaker 6: you know, like I can't have a big Kirby up there.
Speaker 2: But how about So we talked briefly about the music.
Speaker 2: The music is a slam dunk. I think this is
Speaker 2: ghost score is extraordinary, and I wish, I wish.
Speaker 6: We had gotten that movie the Mother. Michael Chikino was
Speaker 6: the scoring That's.
Speaker 2: The movie I wanted for sure, because he was, yeah,
Speaker 2: you know as a whole that that's the movie I wanted.
Speaker 2: But I do want to talk about the look of
Speaker 2: the film, because you know, we're just coming off of Superman,
Speaker 2: which had color and light, and that was beautiful. This
Speaker 2: had a kind of color and light. Then I think
Speaker 2: we're accustomed to this retro sixty thing, these color coded
Speaker 2: labs and the pastels and the angles and curves. I
Speaker 2: think we're really really lovely. I think the visual sequences,
Speaker 2: the production design, I would die to live in their place.
Speaker 2: What do you think of the general look and feel
Speaker 2: of this world?
Speaker 8: It's incredible.
Speaker 10: The main area in the tower where they work, the
Speaker 10: three sections, the classroom, how it's color coded, absolutely incredible.
Speaker 10: You definitely realize though, I think this is the same
Speaker 10: production designer from Loki, So the TVA has very similar
Speaker 10: which I thought that was actually great because it's almost
Speaker 10: like you're starting to connect the threads and I think
Speaker 10: that's actually good, just incredible. I mean, the times Square,
Speaker 10: the vehicle design, the rocket like it's just it's a
Speaker 10: gorgeous space that you want to actually live in. I
Speaker 10: will tell you if anybody ever went. I know there's
Speaker 10: some of the groups that are working like on using
Speaker 10: some of the three D engines. I would love to
Speaker 10: just explore this in a in a in a virtual reality.
Speaker 2: Zillow had a promotion where you could tour the Baxter
Speaker 2: building in like on the Vision Pro for example. I
Speaker 2: think you could get a tour, but I'm not sure.
Speaker 2: I didn't do it.
Speaker 9: I mean, I think the best compliment I can make
Speaker 9: to The Visual Stylist movie is that I came home
Speaker 9: and one of the first things I did was one
Speaker 9: of the closest things I think you can do to
Speaker 9: tourny the Visual Stylist movie.
Speaker 8: I booted up Falling.
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, because and I think about it. I think
Speaker 9: there's a robot like thing that's very much like Herbie
Speaker 9: in that, and it's those don't play the video game.
Speaker 9: It's about a post nuclear holocaust kind of world, but
Speaker 9: where uh it happened in the nineteen sixties, and so
Speaker 9: everything is kind of like nineteen sixties futuristic and yeah,
Speaker 9: I just I love that idea. It reminded me a
Speaker 9: lot about it, and you've seen this kind of dating me.
Speaker 9: But Sky Captain in the World of Tomorrow, that's much
Speaker 9: more like nineteen twenties vision of the future. But yeah,
Speaker 9: our deco incredible stuff. So yeah, I just thought the
Speaker 9: visual was great. I thought, like, I wanted Galactys to
Speaker 9: be a lot bigger for him to make sense, But
Speaker 9: I thought the visuals of him, those eyes were so
Speaker 9: powerfully done.
Speaker 8: Why is goat to say, spaceship? Can I ask you dumb,
Speaker 8: protestially dumb question. Yeah, she's got to eat, He's got
Speaker 8: to eat.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's like the ship transforms the planet into the
Speaker 6: food that sustained a culture. Yeah, that's what it is.
Speaker 6: He doesn't literally just like you know, like like eat
Speaker 6: the planet like with his mouth.
Speaker 8: So wait, that's a great question. Yeah, so hold on.
Speaker 8: Two questions.
Speaker 10: I have one, what do they do with the ship
Speaker 10: that's now in orbit of the Earth?
Speaker 8: And what happens to Galactus? What does he do?
Speaker 10: Is he just like land somewhere on a planet across
Speaker 10: the universe, chomping on.
Speaker 8: A on a daisy field, Like, what's happening?
Speaker 6: He landed on the planet that Thanos ended up on
Speaker 6: at the end, of inf anymore, just like now he's
Speaker 6: a farmer growing giant mellow.
Speaker 10: But I had a lot of questions, a lot of questions.
Speaker 6: But none of them will be answered because it's all
Speaker 6: getting wiped away, is it.
Speaker 9: It's the scale of glackness everything else about what should
Speaker 9: be in the comics, because the way I've heard about him,
Speaker 9: I always thought he was like big enough to like
Speaker 9: pop up planet.
Speaker 6: No, no, this is I think I think that I'm
Speaker 6: sure they he should be a little bit bigger. But
Speaker 6: like this is about right, like in terms of in
Speaker 6: terms of like like standing and looking up. It was
Speaker 6: in the his first appearance, which I thought they were
Speaker 6: going to do, read comes up with something called the
Speaker 6: Ultimate nulla fire which I keep waiting for to show
Speaker 6: up in an MCU thing And basically it's a little
Speaker 6: click thing. But what it does is it destroys whatever
Speaker 6: you're looking at and you So that's what Reid stands
Speaker 6: up to him and goes, okay, look I have this,
Speaker 6: and you can like you scan it, know what it is.
Speaker 6: I will kill you and myself. And that's what gets
Speaker 6: Galactos to be like, okay, Earth off the menu, Like
Speaker 6: that's the and of course he comes back many times.
Speaker 6: But I thought that was a great thing in terms
Speaker 6: of red being, like I'm willing to absolutely wipe myself
Speaker 6: from existence, like not just I don't die, like I
Speaker 6: am stricken from all existence and you will be too.
Speaker 6: But you know, I'm sure it'll show up at some point.
Speaker 9: But he needs the spaceship more as a multi because
Speaker 9: he did see him like this, you know, interdimensional mortal being.
Speaker 9: But you can't like just coach through space on your own.
Speaker 9: He needs the ship to Yeah, I.
Speaker 6: Don't think, I mean, I don't think wherever they if
Speaker 6: he's in open space, but he's still alive, so he's
Speaker 6: out there, so he doesn't I don't think he ever
Speaker 6: really like dies dies, but he obviously doesn't have this.
Speaker 2: No, and I imagine we're going to come back to
Speaker 2: him at some point, right.
Speaker 8: No, wait, wait wait wait, what do you mean?
Speaker 6: Okay, So the next movie is called Avengers Doomsday. The
Speaker 6: movie after that is called Avenger's Secret Wars. If you
Speaker 6: follow the due Secret War stuff, all of this is
Speaker 6: going away. It's all going so this world eight to
Speaker 6: eight will we'll probably net we'll we'll probably see it.
Speaker 6: In the opening scene of Doomsday and then it will
Speaker 6: be wiped from existence, along with six nineteen ninety nine
Speaker 6: and the Fox Verse and all of it. It's all
Speaker 6: going away. So so man, update your resumes, packed up
Speaker 6: your stuff because it's all going away.
Speaker 10: So hold on a second, because you now you raised
Speaker 10: a great point. They're already talking about they had destroyed
Speaker 10: the set like they're they're filming on that set right now.
Speaker 8: Well, well.
Speaker 6: That's it. That's this is my this is my as
Speaker 6: fan theory, nerd theory. I have no I have no
Speaker 6: evidence of this. I don't I don't dig into spoilers.
Speaker 9: Anything know what doomsday means. But I think that the
Speaker 9: fact that they're going directly from this into Avengers movies, well,
Speaker 9: Spider Man, I would love to think there's gonna be
Speaker 9: a you know, Fantastic four to two and three, but
Speaker 9: I don't think there's going to be in part because
Speaker 9: this isn't Chris Evans at the start of his career.
Speaker 9: You're not going to get Pedro Pascal to sign a
Speaker 9: ten movie deal because he's got Star Wars and he's
Speaker 9: got Last of Us, and he's got Saving Transgender World
Speaker 9: because he's an amazing advocate.
Speaker 8: He's just got like everybody wants to.
Speaker 9: He's got to be in Star Trek at some point,
Speaker 9: like he's got to complete the whole geek thing.
Speaker 6: I don't want to get too into like we could
Speaker 6: have a we can have a separate like fan theory
Speaker 6: about like what I think is going to happen.
Speaker 3: But if they.
Speaker 2: Follow, that's all I really want to do right now, Kyle,
Speaker 2: because you just said it, ok I just want to.
Speaker 2: I just you don't you honestly don't think that Figian
Speaker 2: team could find a way to bring Coractice.
Speaker 6: Yes, will No, I think Glacus is gone forever. Okay,
Speaker 6: So all right, so then you know, consider this fan
Speaker 6: theory essentially if I taking for what I know the
Speaker 6: MCU and the comic books, what's going to happen in
Speaker 6: the opening scene of Avengers dooms Day is we're going
Speaker 6: to meet Doctor Doom, who's going to look a lot
Speaker 6: like Iron Man Tony Stark, but no one's gonna know
Speaker 6: that because Tony Stark doesn'ts in this world. He's going
Speaker 6: to meet Franklin Richards, who can has the power to
Speaker 6: literally rewrite reality. He is going to take that power
Speaker 6: from Franklin Richards and rewrite reality where he is now
Speaker 6: the supreme Being and rules everything, and that's ruling the multiverse,
Speaker 6: so it's all going away. So there will be probably
Speaker 6: at the end of Doomsday will be Doctor Doom wiping
Speaker 6: everyone from existence and rebooting it with him as God,
Speaker 6: and Secret Wars will be everyone going hey, wait, this
Speaker 6: isn't how reality is supposed to be. As we're going
Speaker 6: to the opening scene of a maned Secret Wars in
Speaker 6: twenty twenty eight or whatever it is, will be doom World,
Speaker 6: and we're because it's already been in the comics, and
Speaker 6: we're gonna have Doom as supreme being, and everyone will
Speaker 6: think that it has always been this way. Doom has
Speaker 6: always been our protector, our ruler, our god. And then
Speaker 6: the human all the every character from every Marvel movie
Speaker 6: that Disney owns will come together and start going, hey wait,
Speaker 6: I don't think this is actually how it's supposed to be. Uh,
Speaker 6: And then there will be the revolution, and then at
Speaker 6: the end of the Avengers Secret Wars, a new universe
Speaker 6: will be born, which will have Mutants and Spider Man
Speaker 6: and X Men and all of them in one and
Speaker 6: Fantastic four in one harmonious timeline. You will never see
Speaker 6: Loki again.
Speaker 2: The Rusas are doing End Game Infinity War again with
Speaker 2: Tony playing Doctor Doom this time in or and he's
Speaker 2: the fanos of the two movies, yes.
Speaker 6: But but but on an even grander scale, and that
Speaker 6: he's going to be like trimming off every piece of
Speaker 6: the multi person. So we're going to have one harmonious
Speaker 6: timeline of all of the previous Fox and Disney and
Speaker 6: every movies and animated thing in one and so this
Speaker 6: eight one eight, eight to eight will no longer exist
Speaker 6: and the Fantastic Four will always have been part of
Speaker 6: the MCC There are those.
Speaker 2: Of us who think that can't come too soon. I'm
Speaker 2: so done with Multiverse. If they need to do a
Speaker 2: billion dollars worth of movie that's from under it.
Speaker 6: That that's what we're going to that's what they're going
Speaker 6: to do.
Speaker 10: So so, so what you're saying is that in that
Speaker 10: post credit scene, he's he's healing, he's healing his.
Speaker 6: Face, so when he turns around, he won't be the
Speaker 6: scar Doctor Doom.
Speaker 8: He will be I'm like, wow, you may be right.
Speaker 10: Okay, shout out to my nephew Mitchell, because that's this
Speaker 10: will break his heart to hear this, he's a big
Speaker 10: Galactus fan.
Speaker 5: Wow.
Speaker 8: Okay, that's all right.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I want to bet that that
Speaker 2: sounds really.
Speaker 3: It's upset.
Speaker 6: I mean, it's it's a that's just me pulling from
Speaker 6: multiple things and putting them all into it because and
Speaker 6: that's that's the way I would sort of see it structuring.
Speaker 8: Here's the deal.
Speaker 10: The fact that they were not on that ship that's
Speaker 10: in the post credit scene of Thunderbolts really threw me.
Speaker 6: So because that's what's gonna He's gonna take the power
Speaker 6: and go and they'll have to chase him because the
Speaker 6: the what the Sacred Timeline is based in Earth.
Speaker 8: Okay, I don't know how I feel about that, but
Speaker 8: I want to see it. Yeah, I am up for
Speaker 8: being surprised.
Speaker 9: But like all the things that people have told me
Speaker 9: that make me really excited about doctor Doom.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's when they said the empty chair for Latviia,
Speaker 6: I was like, oh, which I really wanted to meet
Speaker 6: Doom and have him like even to be like, hey, read,
Speaker 6: I see you're going to play the planet not without me,
Speaker 6: But no.
Speaker 10: Hey, I have to I have two quick things I
Speaker 10: do want to mention. One did anybody feel like the
Speaker 10: final scene before the credits of them trying to get
Speaker 10: the baby seat in the car, wait, can I can
Speaker 10: I honestly make a hot take on that I needed
Speaker 10: to see more of that kind of humor in the
Speaker 10: movie or else cut that scene or.
Speaker 6: Move it like move it yes for the earlier on.
Speaker 8: Yeah, that seemed odd.
Speaker 6: Yeah, the family squabbling is fundamental to Fantastic four.
Speaker 9: I would just say to you Rob as someone who
Speaker 9: eight days ago had done that struggle in ninety degree
Speaker 9: heat with my baby crying, and like I was all
Speaker 9: trying because yeah, I had not related to a scene
Speaker 9: in a movie more, and I did love that car nuts.
Speaker 6: No, true, I was gonna looking at the screen of
Speaker 6: going like Rob has the farthest from that, and then
Speaker 6: Pete and then me and now Matthew right away right.
Speaker 10: I will say though that that I accept that, but
Speaker 10: not in a movie where the main character can teleport things.
Speaker 8: I mean, you seem like he would have a better
Speaker 8: solution to that.
Speaker 10: So anyway, it just seemed God, okay, so real quick
Speaker 10: the whole thing, I will say, did anybody else just
Speaker 10: get freaked out at the crazy coincidences between this movie
Speaker 10: and Superman. Both movies celebrate, celebrate the silver Golden Asia comics.
Speaker 10: The feel female lead steals the show, the public terms
Speaker 10: on the antagonist, the funny non human sidekick steals some scenes,
Speaker 10: and black.
Speaker 8: Holes saved the day.
Speaker 6: Interesting, there's probably more like the sky Hole.
Speaker 9: I mean would say the most obvious. The most obvious
Speaker 9: to me is they're both fundamentally about hope. They're both
Speaker 9: fundamentally about like to me, the Fantastic Four are. They're
Speaker 9: not dark and gritty. And I I don't think it's
Speaker 9: a crazy conspiracy because James Gunn worked with Marvel for
Speaker 9: a long time before going over there, and I would
Speaker 9: not you know, I I don't think this was like
Speaker 9: some secret.
Speaker 8: I think probably the people making this movie. We're friends
Speaker 8: with James Gunn.
Speaker 9: We're talking and like, like, it's not that I think
Speaker 9: that they were like, let's have these two movies be similar.
Speaker 9: It's that I think they were both recognizing the public
Speaker 9: is really sick of dark and gritty and wants hope
Speaker 9: and wants family and wants lightheartedness.
Speaker 8: Yeah, so I think you're correct.
Speaker 9: The coincidence between them are ridiculous, but I don't think
Speaker 9: it's coincidence.
Speaker 8: I think it's it's both of them responding to.
Speaker 6: Everybody's drawing out the same idea. Well, they just happened
Speaker 6: to yeah, write. Okay, we got to wrap it up,
Speaker 6: you guys. And you know, this is what we do
Speaker 6: when it comes time to turn the corner. We visit
Speaker 6: our friends at letterbox dot com, letterbox dot com slights
Speaker 6: the next real that's where all of the reviews.
Speaker 2: And stars and hearts are corraled. We pick our stars
Speaker 2: and hearts from that corral and we apply them to
Speaker 2: the movie. And as you know, there's a limited number
Speaker 2: of stars and hearts, so you got to make sure
Speaker 2: you take it from another movie. If you give it
Speaker 2: to this. That's my only that's my rule. Nobody else is.
Speaker 2: That's fine, you do you all right, let's see how
Speaker 2: about let's start with Rob, Rob.
Speaker 3: What are you gonna do?
Speaker 8: Heart? Of course, of course. And what's what I got?
Speaker 2: I got five stars, half stars count h four Okay,
Speaker 2: it's healthy, healthy.
Speaker 8: Good stuff is really good.
Speaker 6: Good stuff is really good.
Speaker 9: Okay, Matthew, I'm gonna solid three and a half and
Speaker 9: and my my tagline for that is, I'm really excited
Speaker 9: to see these characters again.
Speaker 8: I'm not super psyched up to watch this movie again.
Speaker 3: There you go. I think that's assessment, Kyle.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that is well said, and I agree. So heart
Speaker 6: and three and a half stars for me as well,
Speaker 6: it's it's I enjoyed it, and there was some unbelievable
Speaker 6: standout moments for me, and then a lot of choices
Speaker 6: where I was like, can we just pick up and
Speaker 6: move can we just move along?
Speaker 2: So yeah, Pasically, I'm not gonna say I loved it,
Speaker 2: but I am going to be I'm surprised that Rob
Speaker 2: came in with a four. I'm going to be on
Speaker 2: team Rob. Four stars and a heart. I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 2: I think it is a one of the better of
Speaker 2: the crop of Marvel entries right now. And I'm this
Speaker 2: could have been a disaster. And let me just say
Speaker 2: the one thing I had not said very true.
Speaker 6: That is very true.
Speaker 2: That I saw the stretch effects in the trailers and
Speaker 2: was unmoved. I thought that's going to be the thing
Speaker 2: that's going to destroy this movie, and it did not.
Speaker 2: I didn't think about it at all. I thought it
Speaker 2: was when it was used. It was used defectively and quickly,
Speaker 2: and they didn't stop and let you look too closely
Speaker 2: at it until he starts get a Galactus stretches him
Speaker 2: at the end, and the fabric starts ripping on the suit.
Speaker 2: That was a great moment and earned and then they
Speaker 2: moved on. So I feel like maybe the technology has
Speaker 2: just caught up with what we needed to make Read
Speaker 2: Richards actually look cool on screen.
Speaker 9: Although I would say I think one of the most
Speaker 9: brilliant choices was we never saw a zoom in on
Speaker 9: that moment. We watched Galactus hold him apart from fairly
Speaker 9: far away.
Speaker 6: Yeah, we did.
Speaker 9: We get very close, and I thought that was also
Speaker 9: really important because I don't think we have the technology
Speaker 9: to make it really look like he's that I thought
Speaker 9: keeping us fairly far away in that shot.
Speaker 10: Just remember this is why Alasta Girl is still the best.
Speaker 10: Mister Fantastic I was.
Speaker 6: I was just so rob What is the best Fantastic
Speaker 6: Four movie you ever made?
Speaker 3: Incredibly incredible? Okay, this has been great, y'all.
Speaker 2: Thank you so so much for the quick turn around,
Speaker 2: for seeing the movie, for being here on the film board,
Speaker 2: and make sure everybody listening to check out the shows
Speaker 2: of the Ethical Panda on True Story FM, Superhero Ethics,
Speaker 2: and Matthew, are you recording shows yet or are you
Speaker 2: still full on break?
Speaker 8: Yeah? So I have been in a hiatus.
Speaker 9: We're not gonna start posting things probably again until probably September,
Speaker 9: although we did do a review of Superman that it
Speaker 9: will be posting. That is, we're focusing on the ethical
Speaker 9: cut questions, all the stuff that the cowards weren't willing
Speaker 9: to wrestle with. I don't know, I've not listened to
Speaker 9: your recording on it yet, but but yeah, we starting
Speaker 9: in September. We'll even hitting the ground running with the
Speaker 9: Superhero Ethics podcast, the star Wars Universe podcast, Star Wars Generations,
Speaker 9: and a new parenting podcast coming with myself, Pete Wright
Speaker 9: and Mandy Capper.
Speaker 3: Very exciting. It's very exciting.
Speaker 2: One day it will release and we love it.
Speaker 9: And then there's a Marvel Movie minute where Pete is
Speaker 9: trying really hard to get me to like Thoor two.
Speaker 8: But we're doing.
Speaker 3: It's an able fight.
Speaker 6: We are.
Speaker 2: We are showing up every week, uh and lost in
Speaker 2: the dark world. This is a good show to have
Speaker 2: all of us here, talk us Marvel people, because you
Speaker 2: know we have movies yet accounted for in the MCU
Speaker 2: and all we're doing. Me and Matthew, we're the ones
Speaker 2: who stepped up to keep this show going because you
Speaker 2: turn decided not to. You couldn't stand thor we did
Speaker 2: thor so you wouldn't have to do your welcome.
Speaker 3: That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 6: We're still recovering from our extremists.
Speaker 2: You are, You're not wrong, You're not wrong, and we suck.
Speaker 3: Let's see Rob.
Speaker 2: So Rob is on hiatus himself. While we are not
Speaker 2: recording Marvel movie minute, I am.
Speaker 10: Working on a video series on for LinkedIn called Workplace
Speaker 10: Treasures that, for those of you who don't know, my
Speaker 10: workplace is sort.
Speaker 8: Of like a pop culture cracker barrel, or at.
Speaker 10: Least old cracker barrel, and I am doing a tour
Speaker 10: of the stories of everything Kyle knows. Actually yes, yeah,
Speaker 10: I mean like so I'm working on I'm deep in
Speaker 10: production on excellent. All right, where to come soon?
Speaker 2: That sounds really great? And Kyle, what do you want
Speaker 2: to You've got so many things? What are you going
Speaker 2: to talk about?
Speaker 6: I do have some anythings. But well, before I sort
Speaker 6: of get to my plugs, I wanted to give some
Speaker 6: shout outs to people who if they watched this and
Speaker 6: would like to do some comics. A couple of small recommendations.
Speaker 6: There was a Thing series written by Dan Slott that
Speaker 6: was just a solo the Thing, just hanging out and
Speaker 6: hanging out with his friends and playing poker with Captain
Speaker 6: America and stuff too. It's it's just a fun great series,
Speaker 6: got canceled way too soon. I highly recommend that. And
Speaker 6: if you want to just jump into Fantastic four, I
Speaker 6: highly recommend Mark Wade and Mark and Ringo. I can't
Speaker 6: wear Ringo. They did an incredible run and we lost
Speaker 6: Ringo way too soon. He died young. But his artwork
Speaker 6: is incredible. He does some of the most amazing Fantastic
Speaker 6: Four art you've seen. And so that is a great
Speaker 6: jumping on point because it was designed for people who
Speaker 6: sort of don't kind of know the characters a little bit,
Speaker 6: but it gets right into it and they at one
Speaker 6: point they meet God. I mean, it's it's it's an
Speaker 6: incredible it's it's so much fun, and it's it's such
Speaker 6: a going through the crazy, crazy world. And also Ryan
Speaker 6: North just did a recent run on it too. I
Speaker 6: didn't love it as much as a lot of people
Speaker 6: I did, but I love Ryan North. So I recommend
Speaker 6: checking those those out if you want to just find
Speaker 6: a jumping on point, because Fantastic four obviously has a
Speaker 6: huge publishing history. And then for me, I would say, though,
Speaker 6: what I would talk about was the one I do
Speaker 6: with Pete. We have a show called Craft and Chaos
Speaker 6: where we talk about how we can as artists, how
Speaker 6: we stay inspired when it feels like the world is
Speaker 6: on fire. We do that with two other artists, Misty
Speaker 6: and Ryan Dalton, and we Missy Stinnett and Ryan Dalton.
Speaker 6: They got to get their full names in there or
Speaker 6: else they'll come at me in our in our thread.
Speaker 6: And then we're having a lot of fun and talking
Speaker 6: about sort of things like writer's block and imposters and
Speaker 6: also having getting really really silly. So it's a good time.
Speaker 6: It's sort of like a campfire hangout, getting together just
Speaker 6: with other artists just to commiserate as we're all trying
Speaker 6: to make something in a world that does not want
Speaker 6: to see or hear what we make.
Speaker 2: Love it great plug and I will say all of
Speaker 2: the shows that I do with you people, I plug
Speaker 2: those and Headstone. My new show about Legacy and the
Speaker 2: Things We leave Behind is out and available, and I
Speaker 2: would love it if you would check it out.
Speaker 8: It's just me.
Speaker 3: It's just me.
Speaker 2: I don't have anybody helping me or doing anything with it.
Speaker 2: It's just me asking questions of people. And I'm really
Speaker 2: enjoying it. I hope they are too, the people. Kyle's
Speaker 2: on it, He's coming up in a stricuture.
Speaker 6: If you ever wanted to hear me cry on a podcast,
Speaker 6: check out Headstone.
Speaker 2: Okay, so that's spoiler something to look forward to. And
Speaker 2: thank you everybody for your time and attention listening to
Speaker 2: this show. Whether you agreed, disagreed, or just came here
Speaker 2: to shout at your phone, we appreciate you. If you
Speaker 2: had fun, don't forget to join the conversation on the
Speaker 2: discord at true story dot fm, slash Discord. And if
Speaker 2: you really love what we do, become a supporting member
Speaker 2: at true story dot fm, slash Join for the perks
Speaker 2: AND's it for all of us. Matthew Fox, Rob Kvasco,
Speaker 2: Kyle Olson, I'm Pete Wright.
Speaker 3: Meeting adjourned