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Speaker 1: Okay, let's dive in. You know, it's funny. In a

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world that feels well, pretty divided a lot of the time,

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there's this one thing we mostly share, right, Yeah, a calendar.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of this bedrock. We all generally agree

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what day it is, what year it is.

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Speaker 1: It's fundamental totally for like everything, global trade, planning, holidays,

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just knowing when things happen.

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Speaker 2: That framework we've built over gosh centuries across so many cultures.

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Speaker 1: What if that framework, what if the year we all

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write down the when we base our history on.

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Speaker 2: What if it's wrong, wrong, hout.

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Speaker 1: Like fundamentally flawed, missing a huge chunk of time maybe

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I don't know, hundreds of years that just didn't actually happen.

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Speaker 2: Okay, now that is a wild thought, and it's actually

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the core idea behind something called the phantom time hypothesis.

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Speaker 1: Phantom time sounds dramatic, It is pretty dramatic.

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Speaker 2: It's this idea from a German historian suggesting, well that

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the early Middle Ages, a big slice of it might

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have been.

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Speaker 1: Fabricating, fabricated, like made up.

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Speaker 2: Whoa, yeah, made up. It's an extraordinary claim for sure.

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Speaker 1: So for this deep dive We've got all this source

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material you pulled together articles, research notes, laying out this

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pretty audacious idea.

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Speaker 2: Right and the arguments for it, and importantly the arguments

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against it.

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Speaker 1: Our mission then is to really unpack it, understand the

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core claim, look at the evidence proponents point two or

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the supposed lack.

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Speaker 2: Of evidence, and then critically examine the counter arguments from

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mainstream history and science. It's a real historical puzzle.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, let's get into it. So to even talk about

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phantom time, maybe we should start with, well, regular time,

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how do we end up with the calendar we use? Now?

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Speaker 2: Good starting point. I mean humans have always tracked time right, seasons,

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the moon, the sun. Different cultures had different ways.

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Speaker 1: Sure makes sense.

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Speaker 2: But when empires got big, like the Roman Empire, suddenly

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you needed everyone on the same page. Por trade, for administration, taxes,

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all that stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, can have different towns thinking it's different years if

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you want to run an empire logistics nightmare.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. So Julius Caesar steps in forty five BC. He

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introduces a big reform, the Julian calendar.

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Speaker 1: The one named after him.

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Speaker 2: Got it and it was based on the solar year.

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You know how long it takes the Earth to go

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around the sun.

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Speaker 1: Okay, how'd they calculate that?

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Speaker 2: They figured it was three hundred and sixty five and

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a quarter days three hundred and sixty five point twenty.

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Speaker 1: Five ah, and sleep year every four years at a

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day to catch up that quarter precisely.

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Speaker 2: That was the system seemed pretty neat, pretty accurate for

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the time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it seems logical. M But I sense a butt coming.

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You said for the time.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, there was a slight snag. It was a

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fantastic step, but that three hundred and sixty five point

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twenty five number wasn't perfect a fa how much? The

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actual average time equinox to equinox is a tiny mit shorter,

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closer to three hundred and sixty five point two four

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two one nine days.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that's a lot of decimals, so the difference is.

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Speaker 2: Small, about eleven minutes per year. The Julian year was

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about eleven minutes too long.

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Speaker 1: Okay. It doesn't sound like a catastrophe day to.

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Speaker 2: Day, not at all, but think about it over centuries,

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those eleven minutes keep adding up.

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Speaker 1: Ah right, like a clock running just a tiny bit

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slow or fast. Actually, the calendar years longer, so the

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dates drift forward relative.

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Speaker 2: To the seed ones exactly. The calendar was slowly getting

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ahead of the sun, and it meant you'd lose sync

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by about a full day every one hundred and twenty

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eight years or so.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so over fifteen hundred years, Yeah, that would definitely

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become noticeable.

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Speaker 2: Very noticeable. By the fifteen hundred's AD, it was quite

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obvious something was.

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Speaker 1: Off, and the sources you shared mentioned it was actually

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the church that got really bothered by this, something about

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Easter that.

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Speaker 2: Was a major driver. Yes, Easter's date is tied to

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the spring equinox, which the Church had fixed as March

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twenty first way back at the Council of Nicea in

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three twenty five AD. Right, But because the calendar had

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drifted forward by the fifteen hundreds, the actual astronomical spring

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equinox was happening around March eleventh on the Julian calendar.

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Speaker 1: So Easter was happening earlier and earlier relative to the Sun.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, drifting away from its intended spot. And Pope Gregory

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the third wasn't thrilled about it. The sources call him

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an irritated pope.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So the irritated. Pope needed a fix.

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Speaker 2: He did, and his fix in fifteen eighty two was

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the Gregorian calendar, the one most of the world uses today.

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Speaker 1: And how did he fix the drift?

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Speaker 2: The most dramatic part. He just cut out the extra

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days that had accumulated. Ten days were.

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Speaker 1: Just removed, removed.

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Speaker 2: How people literally went to bed on October fourth, fifteen

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eighty two, and woke up and it was October fifteenth.

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Speaker 1: Wow, just skipped ahead. That must have confused some people.

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Speaker 2: I imagine so, but it worked. It snapped the calendar

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date March twenty first back in line with the actual

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spring equinize problem solved.

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Speaker 1: Calendar fixed. History marches on simple or maybe.

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Speaker 2: Not so simple, or maybe not, because this is where

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the phantom time hypothesis really kicks off. It starts with

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a bed of maths.

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Speaker 1: Maths, Okay, what's the calculation?

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Speaker 2: Well, think about it. The Julian calendar is off by

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about a day every one hundred and twenty eight years, right,

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and it had been running roughly for over fifteen hundred

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years since Caesar introduced it around forty five BC up

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to fifteen eighty two.

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Speaker 1: Okay, fifteen hundred divided by one hundred and twenty eight.

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That's almost twelve days. Or if you count the total

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minutes going on eleven minutes a year times fifteen hundred years, it.

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Speaker 2: Adds up to nearly thirteen days of drift, just under

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maybe twelve point something days, let's call it close to thirteen.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So the calendar should have been off by almost

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thirteen days by fifteen eighty two.

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Speaker 2: That's what the straightforward calculation suggests.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but Pope Gregory only removed ten days exactly.

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Speaker 2: He only removed ten and those ten days did relign

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the calendar correctly with the equinox in fifteen eighty two.

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Speaker 1: So where did the other three days of expected drift go?

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If the calendar ran continuously for fifteen hundred years, shouldn't

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he have needed to remove closer to thirteen days.

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Speaker 2: That's the discrepancy, that's the mathematical hook for the whole hypothesis.

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Those missing three days representing about three hundred years of

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accumulated drift that somehow didn't need correcting.

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Speaker 1: And this is what art Ilig noticed.

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Speaker 2: Ilig in his Yes, they looked at this and said,

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hold on, Pope Gregory wasn't bad at math. They propose

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he wasn't trying to correct fifteen hundred years of drift

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from forty five BC.

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Speaker 1: What was he correcting? Then?

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Speaker 2: They claim he was correcting the drift since a later

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point in time, and that this three day difference wasn't

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a mistake, it was evidence of something else.

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Speaker 1: Entirely, something like conspiracy.

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Speaker 2: Precisely, the hypothesis posits that those roughly three hundred years,

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specifically the years six fourteen AD through nine to eleven AD,

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never actually happened. They were fabricated, invented.

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Speaker 1: By just invented, added to the timeline retroactively.

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Speaker 2: That's the claim that this was a secret plan cooked

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up around the year one thousand AD.

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Speaker 1: By who and why on earth would anyone do that?

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That seems like a massive undertaking.

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Speaker 2: The sources point the finger at some very powerful figures

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Holy Roman Emperor Oughted the third, Pope Sylvested the third,

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and maybe Byzantine Emperor Constantine the seventh.

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Speaker 1: Okay, heavy hitters. What was the alleged motive.

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Speaker 2: Power and prestige? Basically, they supposedly wanted to manipulate the

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calendar to place their own reins right at the beginning

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of the new millennium. The year one thousand eighty, or

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rather to make it seem like the year one thousand

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and eighty was happening during their rule. Ruling at the

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dawn of a new millennium was seen as a big

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deal legitimacy, prophecy maybe, so.

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Speaker 1: They just inserted three hundred years to fast forward the

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timeline to where they wanted it.

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Speaker 2: That's the core of the conspiracy theory presented in these sources.

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And to make this invented history believable.

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Speaker 1: They needed some history to fill it with.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, and this is where Charlemagne comes in. According to

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the hypothesis.

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Speaker 1: The famous emperor Charlemagne, Father of.

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Speaker 2: Europe, the very same illigant proponents claim he was essentially

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a fictional character or at least massively embellished design is propaganda.

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Speaker 1: The sources say, propaganda for what to.

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Speaker 2: Fill that three hundred year gap with a heroic figure,

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a glorious past, and importantly, to give Otto the Third

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and his dynasty a legendary ancestor, linking them back to

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this fabricated hero to solidify their own claim to power

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and the pope's authority.

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Speaker 1: So one of the most famous figures of the Middle

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Ages might have just been like historical marketing spin for

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a calendar change. That's a lot to take.

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Speaker 2: It's a radical reinterpretation, no doubt about it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So if you're going to claim three hundred years

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are missing, you'd need some evidence beyond just that three

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day calendar math discrepancy. What did the proponents point to

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in the sources? What signs did they see of this

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phantom time?

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Speaker 2: They focused heavily on that specific period, roughly six hundred

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and fourteen to nine to eleven AD, the Early Middle Ages,

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often called the Dark Ages, though historians debate that term,

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and they argue there's a suspicious lack of stuff from

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that time, a lack of records, artifacts, a general silence.

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Speaker 1: How significant a lack I mean historical records can be patchy.

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Speaker 2: They claim it's more than just patchy. The sources say

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Roman records are pretty detailed right up until about six' TEN.

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Ad then proponents argue written history In europe just basically

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vanishes for three hundred, YEARS a real, void.

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Speaker 1: Okay a lack of written. Documents what? Else physical?

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Speaker 2: Evidence, buildings that's another major point for.

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Speaker 1: Them.

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Speaker 2: Architecture they argue that building styles from around say four

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seventy six A. D when The Western Roman empire fell

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look almost identical to styles from one thousand eighty.

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Speaker 1: Identical over five hundred.

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Speaker 2: Years virtually no progress is how the sources describe their,

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claim which they find totally. Implausible if five hundred real years,

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passed you'd expect significant changes in how people build.

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Speaker 1: Things, yeah that does sound a bit weird if. True

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the source is used in an.

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Speaker 2: Analogy, yeah like us living in thatched roof dirt floorhouses,

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today meaning it'd be like us seeing no technological change

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in housing for five. Centuries that degree of stagnation seems

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suspicious to.

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Speaker 1: Them and this is a six end beyond architecture the science,

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Technology they.

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Speaker 2: Argue, yes the advancements you saw in The Roman empire,

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aqueducts plumbing, roads and then later in The renaissance seem

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to have paused during these alleged phantom, centuries a three

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hundred years stall in.

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Speaker 1: Progress, okay what About pacific? STRUCTURES i remember the outline mentioned.

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Speaker 2: Castles, right. Castles this is a specific, argument they. Claim

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you find plenty of castles data before six hundred A

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d and tons after one thousand A, d but very

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few reliably dated to that. Window in between a castle

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gap kind. Of one source mentioned a document listing near

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the seventeen hundred structures supposedly built during those missing. Years

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but when, researchers according to the hypothesis, proponents tried to

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verify this, list what did they? Find they claimed ninety

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seven percent of the structures were just, gone no, trace

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no evidence they ever.

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Speaker 1: Existed so the conclusion wasn't just that castles weren't, built

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but that someone might have faked a list saying they were.

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Speaker 2: Built that's the interpretation presented by the. Proponents, yeah that

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the list itself was a, forgery intended to rewrite history

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and fill that awkward three hundred years.

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Speaker 1: Silence, Wow, okay so forged documents now. Too what about?

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00:10:51,879 --> 00:10:54,519
Archaeology what does digging in the ground?

238
00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:58,399
Speaker 2: Show this is another pillar of their. Argument the sources

239
00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:02,200
cite archaeological, findings particularly From germany in nineteen eighty, six

240
00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,919
where researchers apparently noted very little evidence of medieval towns

241
00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,720
during a certain, period which, period specifically a gap that

242
00:11:09,799 --> 00:11:12,879
lasted from six point fifty to nine. Ten and the

243
00:11:12,919 --> 00:11:16,000
really striking quote from the sources supporting the hypothesis is

244
00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,759
not a single discovery was attributed to this. Time not

245
00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:21,120
a single, one.

246
00:11:20,919 --> 00:11:23,120
Speaker 1: No finds at all from that two hundred and sixty

247
00:11:23,159 --> 00:11:24,240
year window in Those german.

248
00:11:24,279 --> 00:11:27,440
Speaker 2: Digs that's the claim. Presented so you put it. Together

249
00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:31,559
history goes, quiet buildings don't, change archaeology finds a. Gap

250
00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:33,879
you can see how they might start, thinking maybe these

251
00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:34,399
years aren't.

252
00:11:34,399 --> 00:11:37,240
Speaker 1: Real it paints a, picture, Definitely and then we come

253
00:11:37,279 --> 00:11:40,360
back To charlemagne smack in the middle of this supposed gap.

254
00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,919
Speaker 2: Exactly and from the hypothesis, viewpoint his, story as it's usually,

255
00:11:43,919 --> 00:11:46,360
told is just too, much too good to be true

256
00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:47,480
for one, person too.

257
00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:50,519
Speaker 1: Much how like too many, accomplishments.

258
00:11:49,879 --> 00:11:53,000
Speaker 2: Way too, many they. Argue the sources listed. Out he

259
00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:57,480
was supposedly an, astronomer interested in agriculture and architect reformed

260
00:11:57,519 --> 00:12:02,360
the legal, system revamped, education sponsored scripture, updates and he

261
00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:06,399
was almost constantly at. War how constant reigned forty six,

262
00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:10,279
years spent forty four of them on military, campaigns conquering

263
00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:11,039
huge amounts of.

264
00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,600
Speaker 1: Territory, okay that's. Busy doesn't leave much time for astronomy and.

265
00:12:14,639 --> 00:12:17,919
Speaker 2: Legal, reform, Right and in those maybe two years not at,

266
00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:21,960
war he supposedly sets up jury systems pushes through over

267
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:26,399
one hundred, laws reforms education across the. Empire it's presented

268
00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,559
as something that would take four or five, lifetimes according

269
00:12:29,639 --> 00:12:32,799
to one source cited by, proponents so their conclusion is

270
00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:37,039
for illigantist. Followers the only logical reason for this impossibly

271
00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:41,360
impressive resume is That charlemagne was largely or entirely made.

272
00:12:41,159 --> 00:12:44,080
Speaker 1: Up a fictional, hero created to give that phantom period,

273
00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:47,320
substance and, crucially to give later rulers Like auto The

274
00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:50,840
third a, glorious manufactured past to legitimize their own.

275
00:12:50,879 --> 00:12:54,000
Speaker 2: Power that's the, idea a fabricated backstory for The atonian,

276
00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:57,399
dynasty bolstering their claim and The church's position alongside.

277
00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,480
Speaker 1: Them but hold, on if you're inventing three three hundred

278
00:13:00,519 --> 00:13:03,240
years In, europe wouldn't the rest of the world? Notice

279
00:13:03,519 --> 00:13:09,440
what about you, know The, Byzantines Islamic, World, China their

280
00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:11,720
calendars and records would be totally out of.

281
00:13:11,759 --> 00:13:15,200
Speaker 2: Sync that's a huge potential hole in the, theory and

282
00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,399
the proponents had an answer for, it according to the,

283
00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,720
sources which was they claimed the conspiracy required the rest

284
00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,480
of the world to basically play along to corroborate the.

285
00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:28,039
Lie they allege, that for, Instance islamic record keepers actively

286
00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:31,440
added events or even fudged whole centuries in their own

287
00:13:31,519 --> 00:13:34,639
histories to match the new Fabricated european.

288
00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:39,320
Speaker 1: Timeline, seriously they Claimed islamic historians rewrote their past just

289
00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:40,519
to help out A Holy roman.

290
00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:43,279
Speaker 2: Emperor that's the claim presented in the sources supporting the.

291
00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:47,200
Hypothesis they suggest this explains why various cultures might have

292
00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:50,600
introduced new calendars or dating systems around the tenth. Century

293
00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,360
it was all supposedly part of this global effort to

294
00:13:53,399 --> 00:13:57,039
align with the fabricated, timeline done for the sake of

295
00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:58,440
One Holy roman emperor's.

296
00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:02,440
Speaker 1: Glory that sounds incredibly far. Fetched coordinating a global historical

297
00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:03,320
rewrite in the tenth.

298
00:14:03,399 --> 00:14:07,000
Speaker 2: Century it's definitely one of the more challenging aspects of

299
00:14:07,039 --> 00:14:10,600
the hypothesis to accept a vast multi continental.

300
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:14,399
Speaker 1: Conspiracy, okay so that's the case For Phantom, time as

301
00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,840
laid out in the, Materials the math, discrepancy the alleged

302
00:14:17,919 --> 00:14:22,360
gaps in, history, architecture, archaeology The charlemagne, question even this

303
00:14:22,399 --> 00:14:24,879
claim of global, corroboration it's quite a.

304
00:14:24,919 --> 00:14:29,600
Speaker 2: Story it absolutely is a, complex intriguing and pretty thrilling.

305
00:14:29,679 --> 00:14:32,720
Speaker 1: Narrative but as you, said the sources also present the other,

306
00:14:32,759 --> 00:14:37,080
side the counter. Arguments what do mainstream historians and scientists

307
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:38,879
say about all? This is any of it?

308
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,200
Speaker 2: True, well the short, answer based on the material is

309
00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,960
that the vast majority historians consider the phantom time hypothesis

310
00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:47,600
to be debunked.

311
00:14:47,159 --> 00:14:50,120
Speaker 1: Debunked, Okay so how do they address the points? Raised

312
00:14:50,159 --> 00:14:51,759
let's start With charlemagne. Again was he just made?

313
00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:56,440
Speaker 2: Up the consensus view presented is, No he almost certainly did. Exist. Okay,

314
00:14:56,519 --> 00:15:00,639
now was his historical resume likely exaggerated over? Time almost? Certainly.

315
00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,639
Yes that happens a lot with powerful. Figures their achievements

316
00:15:03,639 --> 00:15:04,799
get amplified in later.

317
00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:09,360
Speaker 1: Accounts so maybe he didn't personally invent astronomy while fighting.

318
00:15:09,399 --> 00:15:12,960
Speaker 2: Wars probably not, Personally, No but the sources suggest his

319
00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,559
non military accomplishments are quite plausibly explained by the talented

320
00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,039
people he kept around. Him he was known as a

321
00:15:19,159 --> 00:15:23,759
very effective, leader a, unifier a, conqueror, yes but also a.

322
00:15:23,799 --> 00:15:28,240
Patron he supported learning the, arts legal, reform the.

323
00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:33,200
Speaker 1: Church so a, real very successful and influential ruler whose

324
00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:37,200
administration achieved a lot and whose legacy got let's say

325
00:15:37,279 --> 00:15:38,000
polished over the.

326
00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:41,879
Speaker 2: Centuries that's a much more conventional and according to historians

327
00:15:41,879 --> 00:15:45,679
cited evidence based explanation than him being entirely. Fictional it

328
00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:47,080
fits the pattern of historical.

329
00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,519
Speaker 1: Figures, okay that makes. Sense less, superhero more EFFECTIVE ceo

330
00:15:50,759 --> 00:15:53,679
WHOSE pr team worked over time after he was. Gone

331
00:15:53,879 --> 00:15:56,639
but what about more concrete stuff like that claim of

332
00:15:56,679 --> 00:15:59,360
global corroboration and the calendar.

333
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,799
Speaker 2: Mak, Right let's move beyond historical interpretation to things we

334
00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,639
can check more. Objectively and a big one mentioned in

335
00:16:04,679 --> 00:16:08,320
the counter arguments is a famous celestial, visitor.

336
00:16:08,159 --> 00:16:10,600
Speaker 1: Which Is haley's, comment the comment how does that fit?

337
00:16:10,639 --> 00:16:13,200
Speaker 2: In, Well haley's comment is incredibly. Regular its swings By

338
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,159
earth where we can see it roughly every seventy five

339
00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:16,720
or seventy six, years like.

340
00:16:16,759 --> 00:16:19,559
Speaker 1: Clockwork, okay and we have records of people seeing it

341
00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,840
going way way. Back the sources mentioned observations recorded as

342
00:16:23,879 --> 00:16:25,679
far back as four hundred and seventy FIVE.

343
00:16:25,759 --> 00:16:27,320
Speaker 2: Bc impressive record.

344
00:16:27,399 --> 00:16:31,840
Speaker 1: Keeping so the crucial point is we have records Of

345
00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:35,960
haley's comet being observed during the exact period the hypothesis

346
00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:40,200
claims was fabricated throughout those alleged phantom years between six

347
00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:41,559
fourteen and nine to ELEVEN.

348
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,720
Speaker 2: Ad, wait if those years didn't, exist how could people

349
00:16:44,759 --> 00:16:48,039
have seen and recorded the comet appearing on schedule during

350
00:16:48,039 --> 00:16:49,279
those non existent? Years?

351
00:16:49,399 --> 00:16:52,120
Speaker 1: Exactly the schedule wouldn't work if you just chopped out

352
00:16:52,159 --> 00:16:55,840
three hundred. Years and, importantly While european records might be

353
00:16:55,879 --> 00:16:57,960
sparse for parts of that era for other.

354
00:16:57,799 --> 00:16:59,000
Speaker 2: Reasons there are records.

355
00:16:59,039 --> 00:17:02,879
Speaker 1: Elsewhere, yes the sources specifically highlight that there are records

356
00:17:02,879 --> 00:17:05,759
of the comet In chinese history during this supposed phantom,

357
00:17:05,799 --> 00:17:10,279
period independent astronomical observations from halfway around the, world based

358
00:17:10,319 --> 00:17:12,880
on the predictable path of a, comet confirming that those

359
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:13,880
years did in fact.

360
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,599
Speaker 2: Pass that seems pretty hard to argue with a comment

361
00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:20,599
doesn't care About european. Politics it's considered very strong evidence

362
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:24,519
against the. Hypothesis it provides an external natural clock that

363
00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:26,640
seems to contradict the idea of missing.

364
00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,519
Speaker 1: Time, okay so that tackles the global aspect and provides

365
00:17:29,559 --> 00:17:33,000
positive evidence for those years. Existing what about the lack

366
00:17:33,039 --> 00:17:36,759
of evidence In, europe the quiet, histories the stagnant, architecture

367
00:17:36,839 --> 00:17:40,960
the archaeological. Gap is there a simpler explanation than a.

368
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:45,720
Speaker 2: Conspiracy the mainstream historical perspective outlined in The sources offers

369
00:17:45,759 --> 00:17:48,640
what many see as a much more obvious. Answer the

370
00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,319
period after the fall of The Western Roman empire was just,

371
00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:52,640
really really.

372
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,039
Speaker 1: Tough The Dark ages explanation.

373
00:17:54,559 --> 00:17:57,799
Speaker 2: Pretty much the sources paint a picture of intense. Disruption

374
00:17:58,559 --> 00:18:02,759
the entire world was grown into chaos and. War roman, infrastructure,

375
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,799
roads trade, networks. Administration it pretty much.

376
00:18:05,839 --> 00:18:08,279
Speaker 1: Collapsed life got, harder a lot.

377
00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:11,720
Speaker 2: Harder dramatically harder for the vast. Majority the sources site

378
00:18:11,759 --> 00:18:14,640
figures like almost ninety five percent of the world's population

379
00:18:14,759 --> 00:18:18,200
was living in, poverty and literacy. Plummeted maybe less than

380
00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:19,880
five percent of people even knew how to.

381
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:21,599
Speaker 1: Read so if everyone's just struggling to.

382
00:18:21,559 --> 00:18:24,960
Speaker 2: Survive, then as one source puts, it there's not a

383
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,400
lot of opportunity for art and science to. Advance if

384
00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,640
the entire world is struggling to not die of, starvation.

385
00:18:30,519 --> 00:18:34,000
Speaker 1: Right you're not focused on building grand new cathedrals or

386
00:18:34,039 --> 00:18:36,599
writing detailed histories if you're worried about your next meal

387
00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:37,000
or getting.

388
00:18:37,079 --> 00:18:41,640
Speaker 2: Rated exactly, so the relative scarcity of written records compared

389
00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:45,400
to The roman, era the slower pace of architectural, innovation

390
00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:50,000
the difficulty archaeologists might have finding extensive evidence of complex

391
00:18:50,079 --> 00:18:53,440
towns in certain regions during certain. Periods all of this

392
00:18:53,519 --> 00:18:59,559
is much more plausibly explained by societal, collapse, poverty, warfare and,

393
00:19:00,039 --> 00:19:03,079
rebuilding rather than three hundred years being magically.

394
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,440
Speaker 1: Erased that feels like a much less convoluted Explanation okham's.

395
00:19:06,519 --> 00:19:09,960
Speaker 2: Razor maybe it's certainly the explanation favored by most historians

396
00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:11,839
based on the available evidence of the period's.

397
00:19:11,839 --> 00:19:15,160
Speaker 1: Conditions, okay so that addresses the lack of evidence. Arguments

398
00:19:15,519 --> 00:19:18,920
but what about the spark the core mathematical. Problem Pope

399
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,720
gregory only removing ten days when the drift since forty

400
00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:25,119
FIVE bc should have been closer to Thirteen hows that? Resolved?

401
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:29,160
Speaker 2: Ah, yes the central pillar of the, Hypothesis and according

402
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,119
to The connor arguments presented in the, sources this relies

403
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,200
on a misunderstanding of What Pope gregory was actually.

404
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,200
Speaker 1: Doing he wasn't correcting the drift since forty FIVE, Bc,

405
00:19:38,519 --> 00:19:38,880
no he.

406
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,119
Speaker 2: Wanted aiming that far. Back his specific, goal driven by

407
00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,200
the easter, problem was to bring the calendar back into

408
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,839
sync with the astronomical situation as it was defined by

409
00:19:47,839 --> 00:19:51,039
The church much earlier at The council Of nicea back

410
00:19:51,079 --> 00:19:53,640
in three twenty FIVE. Ad that's when The church formally

411
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,039
set the rules For, easter tying it to The march

412
00:19:56,079 --> 00:19:56,960
twenty first date for the.

413
00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,000
Speaker 1: Equinox, okay So gregory was resetting to three twenty FIVE,

414
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:01,640
ad not forty FIVE. Bc.

415
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,680
Speaker 2: Correct and here's the absolute crucial piece of. Information the

416
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:08,599
sources reveal something illeg apparently missed or didn't factor. In

417
00:20:09,279 --> 00:20:12,400
The council Of nicea in three twenty FIVE ad already

418
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:14,799
knew The julian calendar had drifted a bit by their.

419
00:20:14,799 --> 00:20:16,319
Speaker 1: Time they, knew, yes and.

420
00:20:16,279 --> 00:20:18,119
Speaker 2: They had already accounted for the drift that had occurred

421
00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:20,720
between forty FIVE bc and three twenty FIVE. Ad how

422
00:20:20,799 --> 00:20:22,599
much drift was that h.

423
00:20:22,319 --> 00:20:24,599
Speaker 1: Three twenty FIVE A d minus forty FIVE pc is

424
00:20:24,599 --> 00:20:27,440
about three hundred and seventy years divide by one hundred

425
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:29,079
and twenty, eight so it's roughly three days.

426
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:33,599
Speaker 2: Exactly The council Of nicea effectively absorbed or corrected for

427
00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,160
about three days of drift that had already happened by

428
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,160
three twenty FIVE ad when they set The easter rules

429
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,519
around The march twenty first date on the then Current julian.

430
00:20:42,599 --> 00:20:43,440
Speaker 1: Calendar wait.

431
00:20:43,799 --> 00:20:46,960
Speaker 2: Yees so the three days already accounted for IT nica

432
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,480
plus the ten Days Pope gregory removed in fifteen eighty two.

433
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:53,400
Speaker 1: Adds up to thirteen days the total expected drift since

434
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:54,200
forty FIVE. Bc.

435
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:58,200
Speaker 2: Precisely the math works out perfectly once you Realize gregory's

436
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,759
starting point for correction WASN'T cz but The Nicean council's

437
00:21:01,799 --> 00:21:05,200
definition from three twenty five eighty the three day discrepancy. Vanishes.

438
00:21:05,319 --> 00:21:08,160
Speaker 1: Wow so the entire mathematical foundation of the phantom time

439
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,200
hypothesis just dissolves when you look at the history of

440
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:12,640
the calendar corrections.

441
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,640
Speaker 2: Properly according to the analysis presented in the sources debunking the, Theory,

442
00:21:15,759 --> 00:21:19,000
yes that key piece of context about The nician adjustment

443
00:21:19,039 --> 00:21:21,920
resolves the central puzzle without needing to invent three hundred

444
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:22,680
years of phantom.

445
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,839
Speaker 1: Time. Okay so pulling it all together based on everything

446
00:21:25,839 --> 00:21:28,440
of these, sources we've dug into what's the final verdict

447
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:29,119
on the phantom time.

448
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:33,119
Speaker 2: Hypothesis the clear consensus presented from the vast majority of

449
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,200
historians is that it's considered to be. Debunked the counter

450
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,799
evidence Like haley's, comment the more plausible explanations for The

451
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:44,519
Dark age's, conditions and especially the resolution of The gregorian

452
00:21:44,559 --> 00:21:46,400
calendar math is seen as.

453
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:50,680
Speaker 1: Overwhelming it really is a fantastic, story as one source called,

454
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:55,200
It you can see the appeal a hidden, history a grand,

455
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:56,720
conspiracy altering time.

456
00:21:56,759 --> 00:22:01,000
Speaker 2: Itself, absolutely it captures the. Imagination the sources indicate that

457
00:22:01,039 --> 00:22:03,640
when you weigh the evidence presented for and against, it

458
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,079
the balance falls heavily against the, hypothesis though.

459
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:10,519
Speaker 1: The original, Proponents ilig and, others they're apparently sticking to their.

460
00:22:10,559 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 2: Story that's what the material. Suggests, yes but the mainstream

461
00:22:14,079 --> 00:22:18,000
historical and scientific view presented is quite. Firm the years

462
00:22:18,039 --> 00:22:22,400
Happened charlemagne was, real if perhaps, embellished and the calendar

463
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:23,079
correction makes.

464
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:26,079
Speaker 1: Sense so why did we spend this deep dive on

465
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,559
an idea that's ultimately considered. Incorrect why should you listening

466
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:31,680
right now care about phantom? Time?

467
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,240
Speaker 2: WELL i think exploring ideas like, this even debunked, ones

468
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,880
is actually really. Valuable it forces us to think about

469
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:39,319
how we know what we know about.

470
00:22:39,079 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 1: The, past, right what counts as, Evidence how do historians

471
00:22:42,279 --> 00:22:43,160
piece things together?

472
00:22:43,319 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 2: Exactly it highlights the different kinds of, evidence written, texts, archaeology,

473
00:22:47,079 --> 00:22:51,519
architecture even, astronomy and how they intersect or sometimes. Conflict

474
00:22:52,599 --> 00:22:55,759
it's a masterclass in critical. Thinking, really how do you

475
00:22:55,799 --> 00:22:57,279
evaluate an extraordinary?

476
00:22:57,319 --> 00:22:59,680
Speaker 1: Claim and it shows that something as basic as the,

477
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:07,240
calendar something we just, accept has this complex history behind, it, calculations, errors, corrections.

478
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,359
Debates it wasn't just handed down. Perfectly.

479
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:14,319
Speaker 2: Absolutely it reminds us that our shared, reality even something

480
00:23:14,319 --> 00:23:17,559
as fundamental as what year it, is is constructed and

481
00:23:17,599 --> 00:23:22,079
maintained through human, effort observation and agreement and sometimes. Disagreement

482
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:24,680
it encourages us to question, assumptions to.

483
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:26,079
Speaker 1: Look under the hood of things we take for.

484
00:23:26,039 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 2: Granted, precisely don't just, accept ask how we arrived at this, Understanding.

485
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,079
Speaker 1: Which does leave you with a final, thought doesn't. It

486
00:23:33,839 --> 00:23:37,319
if something as seemingly solid as our calendar could inspire

487
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:40,640
such a, radical detailed alternative, Theory.

488
00:23:40,559 --> 00:23:43,519
Speaker 2: It really makes you wonder what other parts of our

489
00:23:43,559 --> 00:23:48,039
accepted history might be open to challenge or. Reinterpretation, and

490
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:52,799
perhaps more, importantly if a new challenging theory, emerged how

491
00:23:52,799 --> 00:23:55,960
would you equip yourself to evaluate the, Evidence how would

492
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:57,519
you decide what to believe.

493
00:23:58,319 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 1: Something definitely worth. Pondering, well thank you for joining us

494
00:24:01,279 --> 00:24:04,279
on this fascinating deep dive into the phantom time, hypothesis

495
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,759
exploring all the twists and turns presented in the source.

496
00:24:06,839 --> 00:24:09,599
Speaker 2: Material it's certainly been a mind bending journey through the,

497
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:11,359
centuries real and perhaps.

498
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,880
Speaker 1: Imagined we hope you found it as thought provoking as we.

499
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:15,440
Speaker 2: Did until next, time be.

500
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,400
Speaker 1: Safe be, kind and keep. Questioning