Speaker 1: Yeah, you're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network and
now it's time for the Paranormal Peep Show.
Speaker 2: Hi, welcome to the Parallel Warped Peak Show with myself
Neil Ward, and we have our guest presenter tonight is
Ben Emlyn Jones. How are you Ben, Hi, Neil, I'm
very well.
Speaker 3: Thanks. Good to be back on the show yet again.
I always love these programs.
Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us. And just to explain about Andy.
Andy Chaplain is busy at the minute preparing for Halloween.
So with his tuned in Events, he's doing lots of
events around the southeast Hertfordshire area, S six that kind
of way, doing his tuned in events. That's where he
does psychic and mediumship nights, entertainment nights normally at pubs,
and he's doing specials for Halloween. So go to Facebook
on tuned in Events and check that out if you're
interested in having a reading in a pub in the
southeast area. So good luck with that, Andy. So Ben,
we have another guest with us tonight and it's somebody
that you went to the other Man with. Would you
like to introduce her?
Speaker 3: Yes, certainly, this is somebody I know very well, actually
I've met her many times and we've been on a
couple of adventures and we've also been to conferences together.
It is Jackie Tonks Hey, Jackie, Hello, it's nice to
be back.
Speaker 4: I came on the is it about six years ago,
wasn't it?
Speaker 2: It's so quickly you and Richard Freeman came on and
I think you was recording at Richards house, wasn't you.
I think you set up a microphone.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so we discussed all manner of things from
everything sasquat to to killer worms or something like that.
Speaker 4: It's very interesting, was it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So thanks for coming back on with this. So
basically this show has kind of evolved from a few
discussions and we thought were bringing people that know more
about it than us, and that's the name you the
sol me. Richard can't be with us because he's out
hunting apes or something.
Speaker 4: Dicky Stan looking for the goal, which is gel it's
a type an eight man type yetty thing, and he's
also looking for the tiger out there. There's somethings that
Caspian tigers meant to be extinct and yet people are
seeing it.
Speaker 3: So it's exciting. I remember he's been to Style before
and when the last Weird Week in North he did
a presentation about his adventure there and he said he
came very close to the goal and he's convinced it exists,
and well, we wish him luck, stay safe, Richard, and
to bring back the goods.
Speaker 2: It does sound a dangerous pursuit, I must admit. I mean,
when you go into that country and they say reasons
for a visiting the country and you say, oh, I'm
going to hunt creatures that don't afficially exist and that
all welcome to the country, sir or something, it must
be a strange one.
Speaker 4: They're supposed to be. The locals are very very friendly
and you know, very helpful, he said, so, yeah, but
the goal is supposed to be very aggressive. So he's
sort of the definitely want to He doesn't I go
over to your friend either.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: For a guy who says he hates camping, it's amazing because
he keeps going to parts of the world where attend
is the only accommodation available.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he puts up with it when he has to. Yeah,
but he's done that things' He's also he's also been
to Australia a couple of times because he's been after
the Tasmanian tiger. This book about that, that's really extraordinary,
an interesting book.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Iran pendet, which is the new type a that's
not right walking orangutang that my species that might exist
in Samatra. There's a lot of different ones. He's into
late monsters them are I mean, might have been sort
of more into the really common it's but obviously they
go into America. COVID put stop to that, and I've
got to and yet to go back. But myself and
Ben we were looking at the investigating with a group lapists,
the jeff the talking Mongos. The Isle of Man is
quite a strange thing. Yeah, it's one of those that
investigat of hard price. You can't tell what was it
fate or did it really happen, but it's so bizarre
you tend to think it probably did really happen.
Speaker 3: An amazing story. We spent eight days over there with me,
Jackie Richard and a few other people and we I've
never been to the Isle of Man before. It's one
of the most extraordinary places and we did. We went
to we went to the location of the house which unfortunate.
The house is now gone. It's just the foundation sticking
out of the ground. But we went to the location
of the house of the family that had these encounters
with Jeff the sulking mongos allegedly, and we also bash
to get hold of some sort of offer from a
butcher's and Richard laid out a trap with the help
of the other members of the team to try and
photograph Jeff or one of the cousins of Jeff, because
there's a there may be other mongooses of the non
talking variety, so we've introduced.
Speaker 4: Them to the island mans, so we definitely know there
were mongooses there in the place we hire here Kashlin
every year is the farm from which they were introduced
the island.
Speaker 3: We won mongoose ground zero where we were actually staying.
The location was it nineteen seventeen's happened.
Speaker 4: It was very early in the century.
Speaker 3: It was over one hundred years ago, and there's every
show offers people see them. Maybe Jeff, I mean Jeff
maybe still around. We don't know, because we did them
rather controversially. We did a seance as well with Richard
to try and conjure up the spirit of Jeff, because
Jeff is likely to be some kind of if it exists,
it's likely to be not like an actual beast, it's
likely to be something su form phenomenon as Jonathan Down's
caused them, and so we tried to conjure him up,
but we didn't get any coherent results from the from
the little Wigi board we created, but it was it's
quite a bit. I thought it was a bit nerve wracking,
but it's fun. I think it's a bit much to
expect the mongoose to spell. I mean, talking is one things.
Speaker 2: Really pushing the boat, isn't it? Credibility? But yeah, you want.
Speaker 4: To read though he did supposedly learned to read.
Speaker 2: So didn't catch a bus once.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, and tell them the gossip and he described
the insigns of somebody's flat that they'd never seen and
it turned out to be accurate. So there were some
quite bizarre things with it. Yeah, but interesting. The place
was staying is that the house that was used for
filming Sean Beans filmed The Dark, the horror movie, so
it's the same house. But it was quite funny itself
because years later, a guy sort of rather eccentric guy
bought the house and he was terrified of the Second
World War and the bombing, and they just happened. There
was only a couple of bombs dropped on the other
man and they were outside the house because they were
jettison in the bombs and they just happened to do
it right Bay House. He moved to this promotion about
house the young man and then he just had they
happened the jets of the bombs right.
Speaker 2: Study your fears catching up with you literally?
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Jackie, if you can remind listeners because they may
have either missed your first record with us, but or
you know that they may have forgotten I don't know,
just to remind people that are listening and watching what
your skill set is in the paranormal and your particular
focus of interesting is. Just so that we know where
we're on the same page as it were.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean my I've always been interested in crypto
zoology and paranormal stuff. In terms of the crypto zoology,
you know, I got particular interest in bigfoots. Yet it
is really commenteds and I sort of been over to
America and I'm surprisingly lucky. I pissed a lot on
my American friends off trying to see what for twenty years.
I basically the first time I went out, got footprints
and heard a howl. The second time I went, I
had like one two run in front of the car
a belobbing logging road in northern California. So that was
quite near Bluff Creek, clear as about twenty to four
in the afternoon, and then they run out of run
into burnt house trees. They panicked and did the did
in the middle of the road. So I've got an
amazing view of them. And then my brain was like
cockcake with this cockcake, with this snow. The men, the men,
the men. And then about birthday, you know, I went
into shock and realized what I'm saying. But it's very
weird when you first see them. And then then about
a year and a half two years later, when I
after the conference, I scotched summit, which is held in
Washington state Ocean shores, and we asked the guy who
run in the summit any recent sightings around here, because
they actually had big funds right hotel, and he said, oh,
we've got solid activity a couple of miles away. So
it gave me in Brooklyn who's films the summit rough directions.
So we parked up, walked down this tiny logging road
and starts. You know, I'm not very good at the howls,
but Brooklyn's good at them, and he did the tree
knox and I did the whoops, which I'm really good at.
And suddenly a pine cave was thrown at our feet
and we heard this. I didn't hear it. May flaps
are down, but brooklynd well like this, so it was
either a bear or something grilla like sound, and then
got pine came throughout our feet. Then stones got thrown,
and then Brooklyn freaked and start swinging his torch around
and held his machete up and they didn't lie. That's
we got. A rock came up, probably said let it
back to the car. But wherever it was the noise
is making. It was flattish ground and Brooklyn I would say,
it's just over six feet and this thing must me
in about seven and a half eight feet, because we
said where it's the group came from as well above
his head, so and it literally five feet away behind
the underground saying breathing.
Speaker 2: It's like in the daytime. Annoyed times just.
Speaker 4: Was about quarter to eleven at night, right, Yeah, because
it was near the coast and relatively marble. It's still
quite cold, but it's in November, but yeah, it was.
And I had a thermal imagery and we got back
to the car and I said to Brooklyn, they pulled
the car sideways because I got a thermal image in
your car engine cooling down from right at the end
of the path, which is probably bout corn and a half,
so we should be able to get them if they
come under the path. So we reluctantly pulled the car sideway.
I pull the window down and I see something coming
towards it and he we both screamed like girls, and
it turned out to be my finger on the end
of the thermal. I won't repeat what he said, but
it wasn't pricks both that.
Speaker 2: So, so we're doing this show about cryptos of zoology,
and one of the things that ignited my interest was
one of our viewers, Gary Robinson. He watches Ben's shows
as well. We also watching the Paranormal Peep Show. We
didn't invite him to take part, but I think he's
really really busy at the minute, but he sent through
to me and Ben and Andy some photographs that he said,
I recall seeing these in a in an album or
book or something from the nineteen eighties and it got
lost in his loft. But he said these pictures resurfaced
on Facebook about three or four months ago now, and
it was pictures of look like hunting men in a
barn that hunted a well for want a better word,
I call it a pterodacty. Other call it. People called
it a pliciosaur thing because it looked like one of
these prehistoric flying lizard type creatures with them and in
a like in a real thing. And obviously this is
done in the days before photoshop. Now, I was talking
to you before we started recording, Jackie. You you've got
some information about that particular picture.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was doctor Carl Shuka Cryptozoologies.
To be a really good way of checking these things
is to reverse like image search on that and he
managed to find the barn exactly. And I mean it
could be there was two different shots at the barn
one years ago one but it very much looked like
you know, it had been photoshopped and things imposed on
the front. So that's a good way of checking those
things out, you know, As I said, it could have
just been a old shot at the bar and a
modern shot at the barn. But it was a bit
suspicious really.
Speaker 3: Yeah, which just is it like a like a composite photograph,
because if this was in the eighties.
Speaker 4: It looks like it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I mean, also some of these images people are saying
it's from the eighties and they're not from the eighties.
Some of them are. But some of these things you
find out that image didn't appear before a certain date.
So I think he really got his z and work
with these things.
Speaker 3: They'd have to be an original one, wouldn't they. I mean,
it would have to be an original. I mean I
saw that picture too, and it was always intrigued me.
And I do wonder where the hell they gone? Whose
who those guys are? I mean, are they Have they
been traced? Doubt it not?
Speaker 2: From There was two pictures, one one that looked like
they were lumberjack type hunters from their clothes and the
other one there's another one in existence, and it's a
similar kind of thing that these look like men in
Civil war uniforms. I've seen on the website.
Speaker 4: There's different types of at found.
Speaker 2: Yeah, although this guy is really going into detail. He
was looking at the buttons on the uniforms and all
that kind of stuff, and he was also looking at
for instance, he was pointing out things that he said,
would this be faked? And he was looking at what
he proceeds to be.
Speaker 5: Drag marks in the ground of where they dranked this pterodactyl,
which you want to call it, that terodactyl into the pictur.
Speaker 6: All a flying dinosaur and a photo from the American
Civil War, Not exactly. This photograph was probably recorded years
after the Civil War ended, during the reconstruction era. What
about this apparent terodactyl, It is more likely than not
a genuine terosaur that was alive during the nineteenth century.
For details, steal a link in the description to see
this video. Now, look at this weird feature on the wing.
What is that? It's also on the the other wing
the end parts of the wings were inverted. In other words,
this apparent modern terosaur is more likely than not genuine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, although this guy is really going into detail. He
was looking at the buttons on the uniforms and all
that kind of stuff, and he was also looking at
for instance, he was pointing out things that he said,
would this be faked? And he was looking at what
he perceived to be.
Speaker 5: Drag marks in the ground of where they dragged this.
Speaker 2: Pterodactyl, if you want to call it, that terodactyl into
the picture all and parts where the bush had been
cut down or something. You know, it's just like what
I would call maybe environmental evidence, things that seemed to
support but that there was this big something in the picture. Now,
maybe it could have been a large I don't know,
a large buffalo or bic or something they'd killed, and
that could have account for the drag marks and they've
literally just photoshops this at the top of it. Yeah,
so they could be those things, or someone is very
very astutid photoshop and thinks of all these little things
like let's put some drag marks in there, and you're
taken awful lot.
Speaker 4: Of some people shadow who's in the right direction as well.
The remember in the eighties and.
Speaker 3: There they were crude. Yeah, there were comparatively simplistic ways
of faking photograph using computers back then. Yeah, I mean that.
Speaker 4: Picture was eighties and we need to very well.
Speaker 3: Well, if he may look older, but if this if
the earliest The earliest prints only date back from a
certain time. That's probably when the photo was produced. But
it's like, I mean, also mean a tero stol one
of one of these pterodactyls or terrana dolls. There's different species.
I mean, they were basically reptiles which grew wings, bat
like wings and could fly. Some people said they didn't
flap their wings and just glided. I mean it's if
they live today, where would they live? I mean where
whereabouts would they survive? Where would you know? Where would
they be found? Obviously in an area without human habitation,
which case, what were these guys doing there? Where were they?
Things like that, These these sort of questions are valid.
I mean, it's true there's sometimes really old creatures that
that everyone thinks have been extinct for a long long time.
To turn up to see the count the obvious, Yeah.
Speaker 4: I suppose that's on the bottom of the scene. It's
not like twenty foot burns.
Speaker 3: These terro sorts are huge. I mean they were bigger
than modern flying birds.
Speaker 4: I mean, you know some of the ones, there was
that some thing. It was massive, It was like a
twenty foot three foot wingspan. But you wouldn't miss one
of those, would you. Also, they couldn't take off. They
could only take off from cliffs they reckon. They couldn't
do it from the ground.
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, it's like I mean, what's slightly more
plausible is the stories of giant birds. I mean, the
our Indian natives have stories of what they call the thunderbird,
which is like a giant bird of prey, not as
big as the rock you know from the Arabian Nights,
but it would would be like comparative in size, just
simply because that's a bird and not a reptile. It's
it's more likely to exist, although again it's unconfirmed that
this thing actually exists or it was written in one
of in a book I read. There's a big chapter
in a book I think it maybe one of Richard's,
actually about it about the possibilities of thunderbirds.
Speaker 4: So it's interesting talking to I have a lot. I
got to know Rex Yappy. He's a cryptosologist from Papa
in New Guinea, and he's a First Nation person, you know,
native the pap New Guinea and you know, you know,
the rope and mets to have a long tail with
a luminous thing on the end, and can you know
one there is? It uses it for fishing, but there's
no mammals that are known to have luminosity for warm
blooded animals and owns, you know, any sea creatures, so
and you know plants and plants, so that's you know,
a bit unusual really and it's just gription. You know,
Various people analyzed it said it doesn't quite you know,
in evolutionary terms, it doesn't sound sensible. It's both a
really long tail and the bigger terosaurs they had shorter
tails because it's not ergonomic that there was some really
small species a couple of feet across three four feet
that max had like a sort of tail with a
barb on the end, but only the big ones didn't.
They almost completely whilst the little spike keyp it on
the end, it was hardly a metail the big one.
So it doesn't quite stick what we know really, you know.
Speaker 2: Now whether you mentioned the word rope and I'm familiar
with it, but and the area of Papa New Guinea,
now I understand that's what the Papa New Guineans call
pterodactical sightings or pterosaur sightings out there. They call it
the rope and for those that need to understand that now,
I did some research into it some years ago, because
what triggered my research then is about twelve years ago
I think I took first heard of it. I was
friends with a guy on Facebook who was a pilot,
and I did meet him eventually, and he sent me
an account of a friend of his. He said, I
know you'll be interested in this. He sent it to
him and he said, this is from a fellow pilot
that he was friends with who was absolutely straight as
the bound, but won't take nonsense. And it was his job.
Apparently some point in the past fifteen years ago, I
don't know when exactly it happened that he flew from
Northern Australia with a colleague once a week out to
Papa New Guinea to deliver medical supplies or something like
that in a small kind of lightweight plane, island hopper
type of thing, and they typically flew about four thousand
feet high. And this guy wrote an account of what
he'd seen and there as they was approaching one of
the islands surrounding Papa New Guinea, they saw what they
initially believed to be an aeroplane flying towards them, and
they remarked that surely it should have this navigation lights on.
This is you know, it's the rules of It's like
driving at night with a car. You've got to have
your lights on. You know, all planes should have their
navigation lights. And they can't understand why this plane coming
towards wasn't didn't have his navigation lights on. And then
apparently they either nearly hit it or they flew over.
I'm not quite sure that part of the story. But
as they looked down towards one of the people and
I don't I think it was a guy that wrote
his account and said, oh my god, are we in
Jurassic Park or something, so I know that it's definitely
after Jurassic Park, that this then mustn't take place then
to reference that film. And they looked down and they
couldn't believe what they saw. They apparently said, we saw
a terod act or flying blother us and this is
two pilots. Absolutely. He said, I would not believe it.
If you had told me this story, I would not
believe it. But he said, I know it's true because
I saw it myself, and this was a qualified pilot.
Doesn't make him a qualified zoologists, of course, but he's
obviously familiar with that area, flying their battles of boards
every week, and they saw this creature there. So then
I started to look into and I found documentaries online
to do with people signs and Papa New Guinea and
must have been involved with those kind of people, I'd
imagine where there's claims of some of these things taking
some of the kids or something, you know, from certain villages,
kidnapping them and trying to take them away something. You
must have heard that, Jack as well.
Speaker 4: I've not heard that. I've heard about there's been to
dig up graves and eat remains of bodies. That's the
legendarist stuff around them. But yeah, I haven't heard a
bit about them taking children. But yeah, I mean it's
very you know, looking at the stuff on the internet,
a lot of it is done by creationists, so you've
got to be a little bit careful. I suppose you
know what the motives are really.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I've discovered this guy called Jonathan might be Wittker,
but I can't remember that.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, with the website protect Wild Animals or something it's called,
there's lots of videos, interesting videos and I think from
what I gather, he's a kind of creationist person. And
he interviewed this lady who was a missionary. I think
I mentioned that in my messages to you. He interviewed
this lady who was a missionary who with her family
when she was missionary out in Papua New Guinea, sighted
two of them flying down the river past her or something,
and she would be a creation So what's the anglog
of creationist? Why would they want to believe any sort
of things?
Speaker 4: Well, I suppose it, you know, they don't they I
don't know. I mean, it doesn't necessarily disprove just because
there's a modern thing that looks like a pterodactyl, evolution
didn't happen. But I suppose their goal is to say
that dinosaurs are around modern day, So they couldn't, you know,
that they've just been created, you know, because they only
go back ten thousand years, don't they creationists? They only
believe everything's existed within ten thousand years, so that you know,
they're looking for evidence that these things could have been
around within that ten thousand years rather than this massive
gap of you know, seventy million years.
Speaker 3: Whatever.
Speaker 4: They do want to sort of prove that. So they're
looking and you found those people found those stones in
America with pictures of people riding dinosaurs.
Speaker 3: It is they'd literally believe things like because they want
they need to explain the presence of dinosaur fossils, and
so they said, well, obviously Noah must have had them
on the arc, must have been on the arc, because
it is according to them there that the earth is
just the entire universe just started a few thousand years ago.
I think was Bishop Usher, the guy who worked out
the genealogy of all the Biblical figures from the Old Testament,
and he worked out that he worked how the exact
day creation happened. I think it was four thousand and
four BC or something like that, and no Oh that
Noah therefore had his arc around about the middle of
the fourth millennium BC.
Speaker 4: I'm just thinking how many creatures on the ark did
the tarrannosaur t REXI.
Speaker 3: It would have been.
Speaker 2: I think the unicorns were the first to go.
Speaker 3: From the from good omens a unicors getting away.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 3: But as far as New Guinea goes, and it is
a very it was one of the most mysterious places
on Earth. I mean there were so many really famous
UFO sightings there. I know that it's very isolated. I
know there's a there's a human population there which is
extremely isolated. I know because I met a guy when
I was in Australia when I had to see my brother.
He was an anthropologist who've been the New Guinea and
he just come back. He basically went he went on
foot into the really into the deep jungles, which is
him and his language interpreter to speak to some of
the local people there, and they came across people who
were really amazingly they were amazingly isolate, they were amazingly insula.
They asked him and his companion, you know, why why
have you painted yourself white? And they literally had to
explain to these people through the interpreter, this is their
natural skin color. And these people had no idea that
white people exist.
Speaker 4: I had that in Africa. Actually went and we went
on a different route after coming back from seeing the
mountain gorillas, and we went through a village and the
young children went hysterical and they saw us and ran
off screaming, and we interpreted what's the manner and they
said they've never seen white people. They think your ghosts.
So that they these per kids, they grabbed them by
the scrubb of the egg. They dragged them towards us
and made them touch us. And they were screaming their
heads up being the sec rule. But they touched us.
They realized, oh we were warm, we must be a right.
They were holding their hands by the end and playing
with us. But it was just sh moder day.
Speaker 3: I didn't it's interesting. It must be, so it must
be quite extraordinary experience. I mean, in this case, in
this New Guinea village, is the entire community, adults and
children had never seen white people. For those for those
people who must be like meeting aliens.
Speaker 2: Hmmm, yeah.
Speaker 3: Is that these strange creatures come from a world. I
mean they they didn't even know existed.
Speaker 2: What In a minute, Ben, I'll ask you to talk
to us about that age encounter in Papua New Guinea.
But I will just interject here quickly because what you're
talking about being ghosts, and that interprets ghosts. I did
see all about six months or a year ago again
on YouTube. I think it was a video from a
documentary from the nineteen nineties, maybe early nineties. And I
think if I'm correct. It was a Belgian anthropologist or
film group going out to one of these regions of
patha New Guinea, going into this area, and they were
going to make contact with a tribe that no white
people are apparently encountered. And they were standing on one
side of this river and the people of this tribe
were looking at them from the side of their spears
and things, and there was like a log going across
this river. So the white man, the Belgian guy, would
go across the log and meet this kind of guy halfway,
and he would put out his hand to touch him,
and they would sort of touch it tensatively and think,
you know, you're real, and they'd run back a bit
and then come back a bit close, and eventually, like
you say, by the end of the day, they kind
of befriended them. And they said, we heard about white people,
but our grandfather has told us about white people. But
they said they believe white people to be ghosts, just
like you said, yeah, so they do see them, and
they have legends of ghosts in that thing, and it
actually just does.
Speaker 4: I think some people like from what I heard, and
it's accurate, but heard sometimes people are dark Skain they die,
they can lose that color, so that I think that's
where it comes from, but it might not be. That's
what they told us in this village, but might not
be accurate.
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, so Ben, getting back to this Eufeaux
alien signe, it was a reverend or something out there,
a missionary guard.
Speaker 3: And yes, a general called William Gill. He was a
missionary in this particular area and around about in the
late nineteen fifties, and he had a little church in
this very remote area which he made friends with the
local people. He had about he had a number of
parishners used to come to the church regularly. And he
was on the beach one night. It was a pleasant
evening and he was there on the beach and he
saw literally a disc shaped object descend. It was a
silver disc shaped object with glowing lights on it. What's
remarked about this because this is a close encounter of
the third kind because there were a number of people,
a number of beings on the things. They weren't inside it,
looking through windows or anything like that. They were actually
standing on top of it. It appears that there was
some kind of open deck on top. This is very
similar to the oldbra sighting which we talked about, Yeah, kisshn,
except this was a larger object with a more substantial base,
and he describes them as being humanoid. He couldn't see
them up close. This object was quite a long way away,
but he could see that they were like humanoid people
and they appeared to have a they appeared to be glowing.
He describes them as human as people who had like
a yellow glow on them. What's interesting is he at
his wife and the Parisian stared at it for a while.
He waved. He if she waved to this particular object,
I believe it or not. The creature's wife back.
Speaker 8: Papua New Guinea, June nineteen fifty nine and Australian missionary
spots a large disc hovering just two hundred feet off
the ground while standing with thirty eight other people.
Speaker 9: There, solid looking object and can you imagine what it's
like to look up in the sky and see some
figures up there?
Speaker 8: All were amazed to see four small occupants dressed in
what looked like black diving.
Speaker 9: Suits, figures walking about on top and not the slightest
noise whatsoever, And so we waved. Wouldn't be wonderful if
we could get this object down onto the playing field.
And as we waved, wondering whether we'd get some recognition
and whether perhaps they would understand what we wanted, they
waved back.
Speaker 8: The encounter lasted several hours before the object abruptly departed.
Speaker 9: There was this amazingly incredible speed that the whole craft
disappeared to nothing across the bay in the matter of
a second or so.
Speaker 3: It's really an extraordinary and eventually they eventually had actually
just flew away. But it was I've never this one.
That is a very very unique can count. He wrote
about it very clearly in his diary. This is a
guy who probably wasn't that. He didn't fit the profile
of someone who would make something like this up. He
was a he was a minister of the church. He
was on a very important he was a very important place.
You know, I'm spraying the word to the people of
this of this remote island. He wouldn't have wanted to
look like a nutcaseer or like he was, because of
course the bishops and people like that might have thought
he was taking drugs.
Speaker 4: Or something, and it would have been contrary to his beliefs.
Wouldn't they. Yeah, Yeah, it wouldn't have particularly been in
his favor if Yeah.
Speaker 3: I don't think liked it. Yeah, I mean there are
of course, of there's there's nothing that directly contradicts most religions,
but that alien life exists. But it's not it's not
an established position within the church. You won't get your
local you currently get your local victar to have a
discussion about this sort of thing, even today.
Speaker 2: You were back then.
Speaker 3: This is the nineteen fifties. This guy was Australian. He's
probably he's probably quite a conservative person, I'm guessing, yeah,
And so I'm inclined to believe him. This guy Gil,
you know.
Speaker 2: I think he wrote a passage in the rest of
the book when he wrote his account of it, where
the alien wound down the window and shouted across to him,
in mate, we've got a load of rope and to
drop off where one that's the origin. We want to
start rumors. They're saying, Yeah, so your friend Rex in Papa,
New Guinea, just tell us a little bit about him,
and now you got to know him and what he's
brought to the table. Figures if he speaking It was.
Speaker 4: Quite bizarre as chatting a Richard, and I said, we've
got to make a contact in Papa New Guinea as
you do, so we can go and explore, because there's
also meant to be Fina scenes there, you know, the
stripy wolf type dog thing that was in Tasmania and
they definitely used to be there and pap New Guinea
as well as mainland Australia, but it's probably out the
places it's the most likely they still are, and they've
been reports of them. And then like I think the
day or literally two days after one or two days
suddenly this guy out of the blue in Papa New
Guinea says, will you be my friend diamonds homologies. It's like, wow,
I don't believe it.
Speaker 2: I've just been.
Speaker 4: Videos and we haven't got over yet, but it would be.
It looks aletely challenging environment. I mean, he's so many
pictures of cars, you know, in mud, and literally he
can just see the top of the car because the
MUD's like, you know, right up the side of Oh
my god. He shouldn't be videos and it looks scary,
you know, not our idea of concept of mud.
Speaker 2: So he has an interesting cryptosology, but he has a
day job, I suppose from what you told me.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he does some other work, but very interesting.
But yeah, he's really dedicated. I mean, the thing is
for hear me. You know, he owns quite a bit
of lamb there so produce his own food and you know, trees,
produce his own house. But it's sort of him trying
to buy the equipment he needs, like drones, and he's
he's at it's trying a fundraise for that really because
those sort of things are quite expensive and they you know,
he's got quite a lot of help from the Americans,
you know, they send stuff over, but it's just trying
to because obviously in that environment's extremely humid, a lot
of drones don't last really, you know, or they just.
Speaker 2: To use in his crypto zoology.
Speaker 4: Yeah, looking for the rope and so yeah, so you know,
he's always grateful for any contributions towards up and you know,
he said he gets quite frustrated because the locals, you know,
they're either very superstitious and they don't want to know
about it, or they just sort of because he's the
only cryptois, just as warrs those bab New Guinea. You know,
he just they just dismiss him, like, oh, it's this
crazy stuff for So he's been fighting and losing battle really,
but you know he's starting to get you know, been
trying to get the government to you know, give him
support for things. But it's still a bit of a battle.
So he's trying to get a lot of people to
back him. And yeah, he's doing his best.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no one who was keen to reach out to
other people from abroad, So you must be quite lonely
being the only cryptosologist on the don't have.
Speaker 2: Many conferences there. I'd imagine that sort of thing.
Speaker 3: So I see, must he must be It must be
a bit of a lease of life for him.
Speaker 4: It, Yeah, I mean he really likes chatting about things.
You know, he's described what he's seen and other people
have seen, and it does seem to be a sistent animal.
I mean, my theory is it is it a giant bat?
You know, it could be a very giant bat. And
there's luminous things. A lot of people think the luminous
bits actually in an aircraft that's close by, so you're
seeing the chin things together. You know, it doesn't mean
you see one thing. It's associated with another. And I
think that's a tendency people have, isn't it. And also
the size it's very very difficult to estimate size in
the sky. You've got to have it next to something, know, andah,
I think people, I mean myself and Richard Freeman last
February went down the Waverley Abbey. This is going to
be the fourteen times soon naughtic on it. Ten adults
had been in Waverley Abbey using to do some table
tipping to talk to the ghosts there, and suddenly they
all saw a dragon. They saw some of them saw
one dragon, some saw three dragons. One of them said
the dragon was over thirty feet long, the big dragon.
There were smaller dragons. They described something like a dragon
sale and there sitting there and typical dragon, you know,
and and you're just thinking, whoa, you know what you know?
I was trying to get you know, is it that
easy to estimate size? I asked the one lady, like,
you know, how big was it compared to the bench
there was? You know, it's like a little stately home
being there, so like as just behind there's the old
abbey and there's a stately home, think opposite and there's
some benches run a stately home. How many bench long
would it have been? And she almost got it dead on,
you know, six inches out, so so she was pretty
good at judging size. But the thing was over a tree,
so you couldn't tell. You probably wouldn't have been able
to tell, you know, from that just is exactly how
big it wasn't And also people will it's likely the rope,
and it's like people say, oh, it had bat like skin,
but if it's that high up, how are you going
to tell? You know, you're not gonna be able to
tell whether it's feathers, whether it's just you know, looking smooth,
because the way the light's going on it, you know,
it could be an aeroplane. You know, you're just not
going to be able to tell, and not think your
brain sort of projects a lot on it now. And
the thing with this dragon sighting, there were water next
to us, herons in it. Heroins look quite a lot
like dragons. I don't think in this case it was
because quite a few of the people had a lot
of experience of bird watching and they very much I know,
that's definitely not what we saw. But the rope un
you know, there's also the frigate bird, which is you know,
sort of quite hearing like as well a seabird. And
I think a lot of the pictures you get the
frigate bird because it's also got a bright red sack
around its road. You've got sunlight behind that and a
glow you appear to glow, so you've got and with
their dragon sign, we saw there's herons. If a heron
got a float and a bit of line stuck on
its foot around its tail, fisherman, it would look like
a tail, you know, dragging behind it. So you've got
to think, you know, is it your brain? It's like
you know, with a ghost thing with a gray ladies.
If you told there's a gray lady in the place,
you're going to see it, aren't you? But you know?
And I think you know people they know the brain
now projects a lot of what seas. If you get burgled,
you won't notice what's got missing straight away. I've been
burgled and I didn't even realize half the stuff was missing,
because your brain hallucinates a lot of it. Stop you
exhausting yourself, and you know, then you think, oh, we
go use it, and you think and God it's not there.
It was there, and then you think, no, it couldn't
have been there. I must have you know, the policeman
were saying, I've got burger. Once the police said no,
your brain thinks it's there, but it's not there. And
it's a similar thing with a perception you know of
you know, you like this friend, I remember seeing your
brain predicts a lot. Remember seeing what her thought was
the friend Rosie walking towards me in top there'sing devern
one saying hello Rosie. She was in front of me,
and then as soon as the woman responded, the face
changed and my brain had thought that is rosy. And
you project the images they, you know, just to save
your brain from getting exhausted. So a lot of they're
also finding out a lot of these, you know, the
terros saur sightings. They are the perceptions of the person's
textbook of a terrosol and some of them are now
out of date. They're not actually accurate what we know
were anymore. They don't think a lot of terroristaals are feathers,
fluffy fur type of stuff on them, so they're not looking
like that's isn't it.
Speaker 2: It's interesting that I've just I was in a museum
recently down in Bridge where is it Bridge Bridge work?
Forget what it is. It's near us anyway, and it's
an old museum, and of course museums are old, but
it's interesting. They were promote in the Jurassic coastline of
Dorset and they were talking about terosaurs or terodactyls and
they exist now. They make them us kites for people
to fly, and they have one set up in the
museum with its wingspans eye video here. Oh yeah, but
you know it's great for kids to actually testify these
terodactyls and things. Yeah. I can imagine there'd be people
around now saying in Britain, we've seen terodactyls flying and
it could actually just be a kite, doesn't it.
Speaker 3: And not really.
Speaker 4: Our friend's got some massive kites and China and they're
like fifty across and you're taking them up on Dartmouth
and freak people out. You know, she's got this massive,
big octopus. But that's Mainian entity. And I mean you
can you know, they do look quite scary if you
get a bit of wrong line. And I think you
know some of these that one was at the shot
the film. I think it was a Minnesota the one
where it flies over and turns its head and looks down,
and that's mechanical. You can just tell it's something mechanical.
Isn't it all some sort of yeah, sort of control.
I think it's radio controls. It's quite mechanical, isn't It
doesn't quite move right, but yeah, I don't know. It's
it's difficult to tell. But you've got to take all
these things and took count.
Speaker 3: So you can't always rely on witness testimony alone for
that reason, And we do edit out of the way
we see things. And they say rain range is very,
very difficult to calculate for something in the sky. When
an airplane flies are over on a clear blue day,
there's no there's nothing to gauge its range because of
the clouds. You can almost imagine reaching up and grabbing it.
It looks like a tiny little thing like that, and
of course it's not. It's thousands of feet up, but
it's like it looks close. And I mean, they're saying
that this is a common problem in uthology, that you
can't actually necessarily know what you're looking at. On the
other hand, though, I mean I always do. I always
spend time listening to people who describe what they see,
because there has been there have been several experiments. For example,
there's the famous It's It's cooled it was. There was
a documentary called a very British UFO hoax where somebody
built a fake UFO. They built a fake flying saucer.
It was like an airship and an unmanned airship with
electric motors. They filled it with gas and they flew
it over the West Country where all the hippies gather
and things like that, and over Avebury and places like that.
And of course it did work in a sense because
people people were fooled. They said there there's a UFO
up there, and it was even got even though into
the news they said people sort of flying saucer fing
over various parts of the crop circle country. And this
of course was part of the trick. I think that
these people were sort of pranking. But it backfired in
a way because the witnesses actually described pretty much what
they saw. There were no embellishments. They didn't say No.
One came forward and said, it shone down a big
beam of light and he got inside my head and
I had a telepathic message from it or things like that
that didn't happen. So even it seems even the most
gullible members of society can can be Actually maybe they're
better witnesses than we give them credit for. M or
the other hand, though, Jackie's Jackie's right in the saying
that you know that alone is not it's not proof,
and we need things like photographs and other forms of
physical evidence. From the photographs is of you. But if
you take the someone will accuse you of faking them.
Speaker 2: And it's so.
Speaker 4: Good, isn't it.
Speaker 3: You could look at them, but yeah, right, the problem
it's a very very difficult situation. It's a very very
difficult thing to do, especially when you're going to a
remote part of the world. You may see something, you
may be the only witness who sees it, and you
may take a photographic which no one will believe. It's
a it's a very very tricky it's a very difficult
business to be in.
Speaker 2: These people that saw these dragons in the was.
Speaker 4: It the cathedral Waverley Abbey, which is way right, basically
it's quite close to so they.
Speaker 2: Were seeing these dragons outside the abbey, not inside it.
Speaker 4: Uh, he's outside. One was hovering over a tree and
did a circle. Well, so they did a circle over
the tree and then looked at her and went off,
I remember, and they the others were like land. Well
they did actually land on part of the abbey, which
is like just waly type and land, and then they
consider as hanging down. But they were only little ones
like five foot six foot.
Speaker 2: When did this occur?
Speaker 3: Sighting?
Speaker 4: Yeah, they both basually proper dragon boot tail. Yeah, and
you don't you know, it's interesting thing with that. You know,
you don't know whether the one person said it and
then the other's got ideas, but it didn't sound like that.
They all seemed to have differently got and then then
spoke afterwards about it. So it was quite quite convincing.
Speaker 2: Phone cameras then or was that I'm not sure when.
Speaker 4: No, it was really quite dark, but they all sort
of the sunlight the moonlight hit it, and they saw it,
so they got you know, the moonlight wasn't you know,
but I think it just happened so fast.
Speaker 2: They're all like, well, that's the first thing against it,
you know, any skeptics listeners. Oh, but of course it
was dark, so they could we see it and it
was probably you know, escaped albatrosses from the local zoo
or you know that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I wonder that because they got like, okay, it
was February, but they had got those you know, projecting
lights that you have like un stately homes to light
him up. And I wonder whether the heat had attracted flies.
And then there was bats that was roosting, but they
felt warmed up enough to come out because of their lights,
you know, but they said no, they's really large. They
weren't backs, you know, but you can get course backs
projected by lights, so it could be a projected image.
But it went into detail on it, which didn't fit
with that, like it was a shadow or anything.
Speaker 3: I'd just say it has a dangling tail or something
that's sort of bird, I Meanate, I.
Speaker 4: Mean, Richard or go into more detail on the dragon
and stuff. But dragons seem to be something paranormal. They
don't seem to be real. They are a creature that
they're probably multed and dimensional, you know that they're not
something that they've got something very unusual about them. They
don't seem to be a flesh and blood creature as
we know.
Speaker 3: You know, So the first book of Richard as I read,
was this book of Dragons More than a Myth, which
I never read a book on dragons before, so I
was very very intrigued to to listen before I actually
met Richard, not to know him, but that was a
very very interesting.
Speaker 4: Book he gives in so that there's a good chapter
on them in He did two volume things, with the
first book describing the backgrounds and what he does. Good
chapter on dragons there as well, talks about the monks
and I think it was is it I think seeing
a dragon flying over writing it in their gal Yeah,
that's quite interesting, so what it was.
Speaker 3: I do find it interesting that that societies from all
over the world have legends of giant reptilians. I mean
they vary in various ways, and of course a Chinese
dragon is different from the European dragon. The European dragon
is the classic one with the fire dreakers, as Richard
calls it, the scale reaped in beasts with you see
on the flag of whales, that kind of but of
course these similar creatures exist in other societies as well. Well.
Speaker 4: The ropen could be a dragon if it's got like fiery.
Speaker 3: Stuff that explain that that could explain, for example, the
glowing the light.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Do find the interesting with when many, many people from
all over the world, especially this is the point I
made about sleep Gerassis. When people from all over the world,
in different cultures, some of which have really had no
contact until recent years, and global travel, et cetera, they
come up with the same mythology, it's likely they're talking
about something that is objectively real m.
Speaker 2: I'm just one of these dragons sighted at waiver Amby
would have been so I think I've been there and
photographed someone if it's the same place, small place, Yeah,
is it Hampshire or you said Brighton, didn't you?
Speaker 4: I looked into far longer enough, right, and when it
gets a bit it sets it off.
Speaker 2: It's setting it up, dragging it.
Speaker 3: He could track you down.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I was on a podcast a while back and
everybody thought their alarms were going off and it was
my parrots, isn't it? But they all started looking right,
he got very busy, excellent, But yeah, so it's I mean,
I'd more believe in a dragon than I would have
Ropens been quite frank. I think there's more evidence for dragons,
and there is ropens interesting.
Speaker 2: That's interesting because now the guy that does this animals
Newtube thing and it covers a lot of rope and
signs in Papa New Guinea, he's also got signs from
other parts.
Speaker 3: Of the world.
Speaker 2: And one of them I think was someone in Vietnam
from the Vietnam War. And it was like two Vietnam
soldiers that were American soldiers in Vietnam, and they were like,
might have been by a harbor or something like that,
and they saw them very clearly, these pterodactyl or uh
what I call them flying and one of the guy
who's happened to be a very good artists, yet she
drew it very clearly and it absolutely looked like a
proper pterodactyl. Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 4: That's quite interesting. Yeah, yeah, that would be.
Speaker 3: I mean, there is another cases, certainly a case where
a soldier and an American soldier in Vietnam saw a humanoid,
being a winged humanoid. That's of quite a well known case.
As we said though that even though it's very very
strictly against regulations, troops in that war did use drugs
in various various kinds.
Speaker 4: Better means to keep themselves away, didn't they They know,
supposedly give them Sherbet, you know, the sweet Sherbert, because
it gives you that shock. And I've used that when
I've been trying to finish assignments for degree, use them. Doctor.
Speaker 3: Doctors in my hospital used to use and fetomins strictly
against the roles and if they were core, but it
was I think management turned a blind eye. And indeed,
so there was all coins. I mean, I know feedamines
are not they're not hallucinogenic, but I mean there were
other drugs involved, but there were other drugs around. LSD
was quite well known at the time. This is me,
I'm I'm not playing skeptics advocate here. It's just this
is a possibility, you know, along with along with distress
and lack of sleep.
Speaker 2: Although although you think if there's two of them and
they both agree that they've seen this thing together and
then later in a much more calm estate, maybe you know,
ten hours later he's drawing two images of it in
with pencils and crowns and things like that, and he says,
this is what I saw, and his friend also will
look at the pictures. Yet I agree, Bill, that's what
you saw Ron saying no, I don't remember. We were
both tooked up early and we were really you know, digging.
You know, they both maintained that story and even years
later when they reported it to to whoever it may
be that's looking into the story, you know. So I
do find that there's there's a consistency that they and
that's that's happened with people that told me personal stories.
You know, strange people, I say, strange people, strange encounters.
When I did my talk a Probe, my very first
appearance at Promer, I spoke about cent all beings and
and this this lady came up to me and she says,
I'm so glad you mentioned the cloven hooved being sighted
in a mosque in a arm.
Speaker 4: I remember that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, just just to recount for those that really
needed that, I'll cover it briefly. I met this guy
on a plane. He was from Iran. I thought he
was Spanish. We were flying to Spain for a holiday.
Got a conversation with him. It turned out that he
was an architect, and I started talking about fairies with him,
and I show him some of the drawings of my
camera that ID photographed, and I told him some strange
stories that we've researched in a film documentary about berries.
And he opened up a little bit to me because
I think that he perhaps would have told this to
anybody else, but because I was talking on the wacky stuff,
he was thinking, Okay, I can share this story with him,
and he's not going to laugh at me. And he
said that when he was a soldier out in Iran,
because that's where he said he's from, he said, I
call it Persia that you today called it Iran. He says,
I was a conscripted soldier and I was doing a
light shift with an army buddy, and its sandstorm had
kicked up, and we took shelter in a mosque, and
so we both took it in turns to kind of
stay awake. One sleeped and one stays awake, and his
mate went to sleep first of all. And this guy
sat against the mosque the back of his wall. The
wall was against his back, and the mosque in out
of the gun, and his mate was sleeping beside him,
and he kept trying not to fall asleep, and on
the third time he fell asleep and woke up. And
on the third time he woke up, must awake, and
he suddenly saw this lady staring down at his feet
and this young girl staring down in his army friends.
Because of course they're taking their shoes off, because they're
in a mosque. There's their bare feet, and they were
staring intently at their feet, looking at them, and this
guy thought, where did they come from? And he said
at that point, as he's wrapping the strap of the
gun around his arm because he wanted to make a
run for it, even though he had the gun, he
said that this lady looked up at him and stared
him straight in the eye. And he said, as soon
as he made eye contact with her, he said, I
knew that she wasn't from this world, and just clicked
and I knew that she wasn't from his world. It's
like some sort of psych kick connection that tells you stuff,
you know. And he said, at that point, the lady
stood up and the young girl certainly, they turned and
walked away. And as they walked away, he noticed they
both had cloven hooved feet, and they vanished into the
wall of the mosque. And when he told me that,
a shiver ran up and down my spine and thinking,
oh my god. So anyway, yeah, I told that at
the Probe conference the first time I did a talk
of probe and this lady came up afterwards. She goes,
I'm so glad you told that story, because I thought
I was going crazy over what's happened to you. She
said that she had gone to hospital to have a baby,
and unfortunately she gave still worth it died during birth,
and so they put in this private room to kind
of come to tones as best as she could, and
they said they put the dead body of the baby
in the cot next to her, and she says she
sat on the end of the bed crying and thinking,
what earth, How am earth? Am I going to be
strong for my husband and my family? Here I am crying.
I can't even sort of, like, you know, come to
terms with this.
Speaker 4: She goes.
Speaker 2: At that point, the door opened and in came four
or five. She wasn't shortly exact, number four or five
small centaur beings, she said, maybe a foot high. And
she said they weren't pretty. They were very ugly creatures
with ugly faces. She said two of them looked over
in the cop as the dead baby, and a couple
of others, maybe two or three looked up at her
face and star stared at her, and she said something
changed with her. She suddenly felt strong and able to
carry on, and so whatever they did some sort of
psychological positive healing effect on her psychology psychologically wise. And
then they went and I don't know whether they went,
whether it went buck out of the room or they
just vanished. She didn't say, but she just sort of
said the benefit she received.
Speaker 4: Would have thought she'd be more traumatized.
Speaker 3: When angels, I know people who can't hand tragedies and
things like this, or they're very sick and or they
have had a tragedy like that, or they're very sick
and better their visited bi angelic beings that's quite common,
who give them comfort, but central like beings that are
very ugly. Angels don't normally appear in that form. They're
usually pleasant. They usually a pleasant appearance. On the subject
of the pterodactyls and the rope and it's we know,
we who've heard of time slips of people who have
experiences of seeing something that was from the past. This
sounds to me what this sounds about.
Speaker 4: It's another possibility.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it could be that the reason they see
these dinosaur like creatures because they are literally seeing something
that used to be there, a creature that used to
fly in the sky. It no longer does, and they're
just having a vision of the past. This has happened
to me. I've described that when I was in a
pub once, in the Basis Project, in the function room,
I had a just for a few seconds, I had
a vision of something that looked like something that happened
in that room many many years earlier. It was should
I tell the whole Can I tell a story briefly? Yes?
Speaker 2: We got a few minutes before break, and after this
would take a break.
Speaker 3: Okay, to put it very very briefly. I was at
the Basis Project conference in the pub called the Black Swan,
a very old pub, many centuries old. I went into
a half asleep state when I was in the room
and found myself standing at the back of the room.
The fire was lit behind me. The big table in
the middle had been laid with a white cloth, and
there were people sitting around the table. Not the people
who were at the conference, you know, Miles and the
others had just vanished. They'd all vanished. The people were
sitting and laughing and having a good time. They were
they were eating dinner. It looked like there was some
half eating plates of food. There were some glasses of
red wine, and they appeared to be it was like
a party. They were well dressed. There was a slightly
retro look to the way their hair and their their
clothing and hair looked a little bit sort of retro. Afterwards,
I worked out it's probably the fashions of the nineteen
hundred to nineteen twenty time period. This lasted I would
say less than three seconds and I was back in
the room. I woke up properly back in the room,
but it's very, very vivid. They didn't seem to perceive me.
I was just standing there. I could feel the heat
of the fire. I could smell cigarette smoke, and some
of the men were smoking, which you never do nowadays.
And that's just one example, many, many, many people have
this experience.
Speaker 5: They do.
Speaker 3: And I was wondering if maybe, I mean, obviously this
was from comparatively recently, but is it possible that there
was a time, of course, where these creatures did fly
through the skies of this earth. Were they perceiving something
that used to happen.
Speaker 4: I suppose you'd have to check were they native to
that area, I mean, Papa a guinea. I don't know
whether it just used to be didn't exist, and was
it just volcanoes. I'm not I'm not too sure, and
I know it was part of probably part of another.
Speaker 3: Well, they may be seeing that a parallel They maybe
have a vision of a parallel universe which to do it.
They do it parallel universes, a vision of a parallel
universe which is very, very similar to Earth's own past.
Speaker 2: I mean, if if there are timeslips, which possibly there are,
I'm hoping to the idea. I would have thought there
might be reports additionally of of tyingosaurs, rexes ornosauruses as well.
Speaker 3: Perhaps that's an interesting question.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's interesting. Why why is it this rope? You know,
somebody saying the sort of dinosaur running through a forred
well back. But I wonder whether it was one of
those you know, the joke you searching get for your dog.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one of those.
Speaker 4: They really think that, right.
Speaker 2: I think what we'll do, we'll take a break here
and repairsh our drinks and we're going to be talking
more on open dinosaurs, t rex's, brontosauruses and maybe talk
a little bit about sasquatching Bigfoot in part two. So
join myself, ben Emlyin Jones and Jackie Tolks on the
Paranormal Peep Show in just a minute. The Day's the
best day life listening to the parent Normal UK Reading Network.
Speaker 3: Join Andy o' neil every month on the Paranoral peep Show,
part of the paranorl UK Radio Network for fun that
frolics and lots of information about weird stuff, UFOs, ghosts
and things that go bump in the night and everything
associated with them. Fascinating guests, fascinating talk, fascinating information.
Speaker 2: Hi, welcome back to the paranorl Peep Show with myself
Neil Ward, and we have Ben Emlin Jones and cryptozoologist
expert Jackie Toltz joining us. So, Jackie, getting back to
your rope and experiences. You're you're a bit doubtful of
all these rope and experiences, aren't you?
Speaker 4: Yeah? I mean I think you know, I think the
one in Papa New Guineas most likely frigate birds. People
are saying, I mean some of the people. If somebody
who lives in land in Papa New Guinea. You know,
if frigate bird came in and it don't normally in
the area because they are but I think the seabird
on they it would look a bit unusual to them,
so they wouldn't be familiar with it as a native animal.
It's so similar with the bembe, the dinosaur in in
Africa they reckon. Some of the sightings are elephants swimming
that people see them reported them more often not always
used to seeing swimming elephants. So it looks exactly like
you've got the head coming out and hump on the back.
So you know, a similar thing could be with a
frigate bird. And that they the missionaries are telling it's
a dinosaur because they've got, you know, investment in thinking
it's a dinosaur to prove you know, creation happened as
it did, so you've got and then trust in the
missieries with that. So you know, I mean that could
be happening. It might not. I mean they just seemed
to be. There was also a report in pap the
Guinea of a massive giant lizard that's facts you know village.
I can't remember the it was like that it did
exist in Australia. It was like a covedo dragon creature
the name of it. But there was a report of that,
and you know, so there could be things. I mean
that there's uncontacted tribes in New Guinea still, you know,
it's supposed to be one of the players. They still cannibalize.
Price Parry got you know, you know, and talked to
Rex about this. There is some evidence that still happens.
So it's an incredibly unexplored area, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well wow, Ben, you want to say something
whether there's the idea of there being giant reptiles. I mean,
there are giant reptiles that exist, and the aforementioned commodo dragon,
and there's a huge lizard. There used to be much
larger ones in Australia, like there was the giant there
was the giant goanna, which I think was like about
twenty feet long or something. And as far as creatures
that can survive through mass extinctions from the distant past,
that does happen too. I remember that's David Bellamy. You know,
when David Bellamy used to do those TV shows for
he actually was showing this likely this lizard creature and
I remember remember seeing it when I was a little kid.
He says. It looks like a lizard, but it is
not an is it? He says, it's it's much older
than that. It's older than the dinosaurs, he said. And
he's holding up this, this creature and.
Speaker 4: Do it, Tara, probably from these doesn't that yet.
Speaker 3: It does as like a little funest skull because it
has like a it's really.
Speaker 4: Isn't it goes the light affects.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's really interesting and it's very very old.
It's it's it's been around for much. It's all far
long before the dinosaurs, and it's still it's survived. It's
it's passed through these various mass extinctions and it's five
to the present day, so Tenaly, it's possible like a
big like what it is, it's like a brontosaurus, like
theropod dinosaur, but it's described as being much smaller. It's
been has been described as being about the size of
the elephant, or maybe smaller than an elephant, whereas a
real bronze stores is like about five times the size
of an element. The elephant, it was huge. It's is
there would there be food for it to eat. If
it's a vegetarian, it could like eat the tree leaves
or maybe eats leaves or something like giraffes doing.
Speaker 4: Old dinosaurs, you know, the vegetarians, because they didn't have
grass in the times of dinosaurs that would bowl relatively late.
And you know, see see any like movies the dinosaurs
on grass, but the Jurassic Park it's not accurate as all,
but you know, they didn't have grass in those days.
Speaker 2: I heard something about dinosaur times that they believed that
the Earth's gravity was slightly different back then, because they said,
if you hadn't brought the sauce into day's world, it
would not hold up the weight of its neck and
tail in like the way they just crush it so
in organ. Yeah, so, yeah, I think it was Andrew
Jolson might have said it or he heard about it
and related it to me. But yeah, so they believe
that the weight of the Earth was or the gravity
in the Earth was slightly different, maybe more more moonlight,
perhaps so that these creatures could move and maybe you know,
I don't know how long the move's being in all,
but supposedly around the Earth. But maybe the distance of
the moon was slightly different to make that.
Speaker 4: So it did in further away, isn't it.
Speaker 2: It's getting further away.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I know there's there are theories. There's very
theories that goes into very very strange areas like the
Earth expanding things like that by what mechanism has never
really been explained, how you the Earth actually could expand
and increase mass. Where's that mass coming from? Things like that,
But there's no.
Speaker 4: Measure is the thing that leasure line?
Speaker 3: It's really it's a really incredible idea that's true, But
we did it is true that the Earth, this is
not disputed that the Earth's day used to be shorter.
And I watched the documentary about it is one of
us walking with Dinosaurs type very sophisticated animations, where it
did say that the Earth the length of the day
was like it was twenty three hours and sixteen seconds
or something rather sixteen minutes rather than twenty four hours
like that, and that the Earth the oxygen content was
much higher in the atmosphere.
Speaker 4: The oxygen was different, wasn't it.
Speaker 3: That's why those giant insects, because you couldn't get insects
that pic today because only twenty one percent oxygen and
they have you know, they're they're The way they breathe
is not food the way we do. In fact, if
we live back then we wouldn't be able to breathe
because the oxygen content will be too high for our lungs.
Speaker 2: Whereas yeah, we would become.
Speaker 3: Happy, we would get we would we become hyper we
would hyperventilate. Yes, so there is there is that, and
it makes you want to maybe maybe it's it's feasibly
possible that something from that era did survive, which we
don't know about well, but maybe maybe the reason it
gets got smaller in size is to do with this
gravity business.
Speaker 4: Or it's kind of evolved independently and created the same
looking creature you don't you know, doesn't have to come
from that area be survived or one that to carry
on breeding. Something could evolve since you know.
Speaker 3: You be crease or decrease in size for evolution pygmy
elephants and things like that. You get. So theoretically it
is sound. Whether whether it actually exists or not is
another matter, But theoretically I'm open to the audio. Theoretically something
could exist like that.
Speaker 2: It's interesting that the creatures that seem to have survived
from the dinosaur age. Right, You've got the alligator and
the crocodile, both water based creatures, and then you've got
the cedar campfish as well, which are sort of extinct.
They seem to have come from that dinosaur period and
survived right through. So they survived right through the changes
in gravity, in the oxygen content of the Earth and
that kind of stuff. And it's interesting in they survived
this supposed extinction event, which was the asteroid hit in
the Earth, apparently in sort of like South America where
it landed.
Speaker 4: So I suppose they're all relatively small animals there reckon
a lot of small animals because then get into caves
and they said the big ones wouldn't have had a
chance because the get cover by Yeah, that's their There.
Speaker 3: Was also the the Court. One of the effects of
this asteroids that in the US was there was there
was a global cooling over I think a ten year period,
ten to twenty years. It was the earth temperature dropped
by a five degrees and that that they couldn't cope without.
But again, some some creatures will will adapt to that,
others won't. But I mean when it comes to the seed.
That's a completely different matter. I mean most of the
like you know, living dinosaur reports come from the sea.
For example, there's the it was in work I think
in World War One or World War II, there was
a German U boat off the coast I think it
was off the coast of Ireland, and this creature jumped
out of the sea. They described as being like a crocodile,
except to add flippers instead of legs. Now there is
there used to be a dinosaur. I think it was
called the Oratus, the Heenosaurus, I think it was called
that actually did look like that. It was an aquatic dinosaur.
And the apparently the crew didn't know that it didn't
know about this. They didn't sell there's an a heinosaur.
They said, this is like it's like a crocodile like
thing with flippers and they sort of leap out of
the city. And there's the I mean, if that's the case,
then it's possible in the oceans, because in the oceans
is it's finding things in the ocean is far harder
than finding them on land. For a population of unknown
creatures to exist in the ocean is much more like. Indeed,
they have I mean the other creatures like the giant squid,
which was a crypt and then but then its existence
was confirmed. We could be looking at something like that,
which may be it may be a living fossil, something
that survived the big hit and they has thrived in
the ocean depths away from Obviously, it's not like a dolphin.
It doesn't it doesn't approach us and try to communicate.
It's something that may be actively avoiding human contact.
Speaker 2: Interesting you mentioned about the that the giant squid, and
there's that story. I remember seeing it on the Arthur C.
Clark's Mysterious World program. Then I subsequently looked it up
online and it was the guy that I think in
the original series. He had died sort of when they
made the series, but I think his sisters and his
friend were discussed in the case. And it'ud be about
nineteen eighty one or something. They were filmed, I think,
and it was this guy they'd survived getting torpedoed by
the Germans. And there's like five or six of them
in this raph floating somewhere, and I think it was
a nighttime. First, some huge creature came over and pulled
one of the people under completely shot them, and then
a few minus later came back and tried to get
this particular guy that was survived, and because his friends
saw the previous guy that they immediately grabbed to him
and held on to him, and eventually it just sort
of went away, but it pulled bits of this flesh
off his leg and left huge scars on his leg
and marks, didn't he that's right, Yeah, And they worked
out for his snucker marks. They worked out for the
signs of the sucker marks his leg with the scar
and everything that they worked out. It was at least
twenty six to thirty feet long. This huge squid. They
said they couldn't see it clearly to the dart. They
could see the shape of it against the night skies
that came over the boat. So yeah, one of these
rare things where a person gets attacked by a giant squid.
Speaker 10: The late Lieutenant Ari Grimani Cox was returning home to
England in nineteen forty two when he encountered one of
the Second World War's most nightmarish sea stories. His troop
ship was sunk by a German raider in the south
of Atlantic Cowkes found himself on a fragile raft was
set by sharks. After five days came a sinister assault.
Cox showed the evidence later to a friend.
Speaker 3: Well, when I.
Speaker 11: Looked at his leg, he pulled up his trousers and
I could see scars the size of a penny, which
is at an incant a quarter of the old penny
were darted at intervals way up his leg. And these
were white scars, sunk quite deep into the flesh where
the skin had been pulled off.
Speaker 10: Before he died in nineteen seventy one, Cox told the
story to his sisters as well as to his friend,
a biologist, Professor Cloudsley Thompson.
Speaker 11: All right, yes, we didn't show me that.
Speaker 4: He only showed me that he.
Speaker 11: Well, he was you his sisters, and this was in
the miss There were twelve of them on the raft
Nishe and only three survived to the end of the
five games. And one of the most horrifying things that
happened while they were lying there, dying one by one
from thirst, was one evening when they were attacked by
John Squid. An enormous shape appeared beside the raft, and
a huge arm came over and snatched one of the
men and tore him off the raft. Before anybody could
do anything to save him, and presumably he was eaten
and they were still barely recovering from the shock of
this when another arm or tentacle came over the side
of the raft. He saw it slouted against the starlit
sky and it fastened itself on him, round his leg
and around his body, particularly his right leg, because that's
where the scars mainly worth. He showed me, but I
believe he'd said that they were on the rest of
his body as well, and he'd have been pulled.
Speaker 3: Off just like the others.
Speaker 11: Only fortunately by that time people were alert, and so
they grabbed on and held him and instead of him
being pulled over the side, the circles pulled lumps of
skin off him, off his body, and this is what
caused these massive number of scars.
Speaker 2: All over him at the quid and so.
Speaker 4: All.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you'd almost call that dinosaur and it sighs,
you know the fact that he'd expect squids to be
small little things. They used to be millions of years
but here we are, and we've had signs in two
thousand and seven where they actually filmed and timea squids,
certain depths, huge squids and Japan they've hauled up some
of their nets and things, fishing boats and things. So
there they've they've been proof to exists. They were always
laughed at that they've been proof exists. Now so I
wonder with the technology, as we're going forward, with the technology,
what we've got that you would be able to get
better at finding these things, whether it's some uh ropen
in Papa New Guinea or indeed Bigfoot in the Great
Northwest of America or something. You know, it's it's a
lot of technologies on our side to fund these things.
Speaker 4: I mean, I mean, you know, just getting across Packa
New Guinea really, I mean, you know, most people have
to use the missionaries planes, and you know, there's only
so many places that lands, so it's still quite difficult
to get across. And I think there's one film crew
is saying it was a bit of a pain trying
to move around because some of the people are very
peny realized if you're a film crew, you potentially had
a ten thousand pounds hip, and some of the very
rich film crews were having to, you know, basically hand
out this money to some of the tribes and they're
all getting so each tribe was asking and it's great,
you know, they deserved to end some money, but it
was getting to the point where it was getting unaffordable
to move, you know. So there are there are issues
like that Ininea. You know, there's all sorts and there's
some very obviously you know my friends I call when
there's stuff diseases there. We just don't have any somebody
dad lost some of his foot and peas of the
you know, it's very human environment, so you know it
can be quite a dangerous environment to sort of live in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and then you've got to survive. Which tribe
a you're going to get eaten by? Maybe? I mean,
you know, maybe they're pretty friendly out there, most of them,
but you might come across the odd tribe that you
weren't expecting and see you before.
Speaker 4: In britt Pirie got a confession that somebody had been
eating eighteen months before when he interviewed them. That was
on me so many years ago, you know, I think,
you know, those beliefs are quite strong, and it's about
like possessing overcoming the evil side, isn't it the person?
You have to eat them? And they know that's sad
belief really, so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you inherit their wisdom and you inherit their their
cleverness or something. This is this is the things I've heard.
I mean it might vary on country to country, but
by eating part of that person that was a village elder,
you you you take on some of their wisdom and
wisdom and spirit or something like that as well. So
it's done more of the kind of uh, a metaphysical sense.
Speaker 3: Rather than just a nutritional thing.
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, yeah, I can imagine that's Saturday nice
might be interesting you eating intnet, you're eating it out,
you know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, beats feats back done.
Speaker 2: Well, that's right. I mean, Sunday roads, Sunday roast must
be a pleasure out there, you know, go to Grandma's
for Sunday ROAs and finals. Actually Grandma if we just people,
So this moves slightly away from the rope un and
the saw and the terrandactyls. Jackie, your experiences with Bigfoot,
and obviously you could put like lots of arguments against
Bigfoot exists, and there's lots of skeptics out there now.
But yeah, seeing bears and things like that, now you
you claim to have seen them, and your battery had
run out at the wrong moment and you were charging.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it was the day i'd been charging and
it was just you know, in a cigarette light but
below and before that I'd always had that not connected
and jammed into the front of the windscreen with my
neck pillow you know, were the ones you fly with,
get the crect neck and that worked quite well. And
it was a day. What'sn't well? Our friends said he's married,
quite spiritual that he said, oh you were you know,
you weren't meant film it might I mean, you know,
I mean it's talked about the Sascot Summit. You know,
I would say eighty percent plus people are that summit
in seen them. But the issue is should we share
that information? Are people ready? Are they just in a
shoot moll? You know? And that there's it's quite political
stuff because they discovered a species of our in Oregon
and they lost billions to the economy because it were
they had to stop logging in that area. So it's
a very sore point and a lot of the rangers
and the loggers just aren't allowed to talk about bifore.
They get really panicky if you ask him questions. So
we don't talk about that, and you don't get saying
we can't talk about unicorn, so you know, they get
quite panicky, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, at a point, I mean, there are certain legislatures
and now passed laws to protect bigfoot, even though it's
not officially state Oregon. Yeah, certainly in the Pacific Northwest, Oregon, Washington,
there there are they were representatives.
Speaker 4: Partly that's the tech people who that's up in Monkey
six to fill people for case it's a royal animal
and the pictures of Washington state rember correctly.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So if it's found to be human like, you'll have
for murder, and if it's found the ape like, you'll
get had to shooting a rare animal.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so this is I know, I'm on the skeptic forms.
They were taking a mickey out of list but it's
it's a serious business because no offense. I mean we
have I know we have listeners in the United States,
but no offense to to those them. But Americans being Americans,
what's the first thing that could happen if this is
ever openly discussed and acknowledged to exist. What's the first
thing they're going to do. They're going to go and
they're going to get their dole bar shot done out
of the cupboard and they're going to head outs to
want it to be the first one to bag one
for the shelf. And the problem with that is that
we don't know how many there are left, and we
know they could be critically endangered. Yeah, should we know
what that relation is? You know, because we know the
like at Bluff Creek, that the area where Patson and
Gimlin had their sighting. You don't get like sightings there
anymore because there's a big logging road there and there
are lumberjacks everywhere, and of course these street.
Speaker 4: Where by sighting was they be miles away of the
Book Creek, but it's not easy to get to. And
it's also a lot of marijuana legal marijuana growing around there,
so you're in quite danger if you go in the area.
We speaking to a ranger. He said, you don't go
this bit, don't go back. But you know it's too
too dangerous. So I mean it's still there is a massive,
big logging road, yeah, right next by it.
Speaker 2: But at the.
Speaker 4: Same time we only saw one truck in ten days,
so so you have one of the are coming. Will
We're on that road. We saw one truck, but we
are and it's still quite remote.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is still a creature that does it appears
although it will approach humans at time, it still obviously
wants to keep is evolved kind of evasive behavior as
many as many animals have evasive behavior towards humans. And so,
I mean, this could be. It could be that they
are that. We don't know how many there are, We
don't know what their population is, as so I understand. Well,
the first thing I would do, if I was the
government should do if this thing, if it ever possibly
not positively acknowledged thingsist, is they leave them alone, don't
touch them. You're not You're not to hunt these creatures't understandable.
Speaker 2: It's interesting because one of the people that supposedly brought
a sasquatchin was this guy, I think it's Frank Hanson,
I think his name was. It was mentioned in the
book Everything You Know Is Wrong by Lloyd Pye, who
did come on later on to talk about the Star
Child's Gold, but before he went into those areas, he
had written a book about Sasquatches and the Patterson Gimlin film,
and he also mentioned his experience as a child in
nineteen sixty seven where he would see this what was
called the Minnesota Iceman, and it was this guy I
think his name is Frank Hanson, and he would take
it around shopping malls and traveling theirs, and it was
allegedly he made up various stories about where this creature
had come from, because I think basically someone had pointed
out to him, maybe a lawyer or something like that,
that if this is decreed to be at least part
human and you've shot it, you could be out for murder.
And so he made up all these stories about where
it had come from, Hong Kong, or it's found close.
Speaker 12: To Japan, and yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no story was
ever straight, but eventually kind of wrote a more honest
account later on when he said, I don't remember putting
the trigger, but I the gun go off.
Speaker 2: So he wrote it in such a way that he
wasn't admitting to killing it. But he said he saw
three of them, and interestingly, like the Patterson Gimblin Fold
when they first encountered their Patty Bee foot, this one
was drinking by a water or something on one ran
towards him as if to attack him, and he said
he doesn't remember putting the trigger. That's what he said
to protect himself in legal terms. But he obviously shot
it and he killed it, and then he didn't know
what to do, and he left it there for like
six days, and it snowed on the body, and he
kept thinking about it, and eventually he went back with
a friend of his. I think that he confided it
and they found the body under the snow. They put
it into the truck, and so he decided to put
it in his basement and put it in a freezer
and cover it in ice, and he kept it there
for a year, and eventually, I think with the permission
of his wife, they greed on sort of a plan
that they would go around touring around shopping malls and
called it the Minnesota Iceman, but be very cagy about
what it actually was, but to kind of help back
up the story of what kind of creature could have been,
they actually called in some anthropologists you spent about three
days examine this thing in their own film god and said,
we've never seen anything like this, you know.
Speaker 13: Hooverman's, though, believed there was a good reason for the
true story to stay hidden, a reason that if true,
might prove to be a violation of national law.
Speaker 14: We were struck by many things, the enormous hands and
the enormous feet, and also more especially the features of
the face, because it was absolutely.
Speaker 3: Unlike any man on earth.
Speaker 14: It was obvious that this creature had been killed because
the one eye was completely missing and the other was
hanging out of the socket, and it had blood all right,
So we thought it was probably shot in one eye
and the bullet made the I pop out. There is
no question that the eisman could be a hoax, fake dummy,
rubber dummy, over what have you, as they told in
the press, when you have seen something. We examined this
creature for three days, very carefully, and we were very suspicious,
I can tell you at the start, but after a
while that was quite ruled out.
Speaker 3: No, there is absolutely.
Speaker 14: No doubt for me that I have been examining a
neundertone man surviving the undertone man.
Speaker 13: Hooverman's believed the specimen to be a kind of human
rather than non human primate, but for most the iceman
generally matches the image of a bigfoot with sasquatch.
Speaker 2: And even when they're examining it, say the eye. They said,
you can tell it was real hair.
Speaker 4: Been shot in the eye, didn't it, which, yeah, they
stop me doing the model. You wouldn't do that.
Speaker 2: No, that's right. It was shot in the eye and
the pressure of the eye shooting out of the head
popped the other eye out, so both of his eynes
were missing or one was hanging on. Yeah, but they
examined its hair and everything, although they couldn't get down
and get samples. I think part of the glass cracked
or something. So the story went as one of the
lent on it and some of the fumes from this
body leaked up out through the ice and they could
smell it. It smelt really awful. So you know, if
you're thinking this is just a rubber a rubber man
suit thing, it wouldn't smell at all. So they could
definitely smell the decompositional things as the air got to it.
So by and large, it looked like it was a
genuine and a lot of people thought they estimated it
was perhaps a young six to seven year old sasquatch
because it was only about six foot at all. It
wasn't there. Yeah, And then later on, when he started
getting worried, about maybe being rested for killing the potential
half human. He decided to swap it with a rubber dummy.
And that's where the story becomes a little bit clouded, because.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I think that's when it gets a bit
I start to think a bit suspicious of it. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But b Lloyd Pye, who was a believer in the
Patison film, and he's got theories about the whole thing.
He said, there's no way this was fate. He said,
I remember seeing it as a kid, paying three or
four cents to see this thing an up close. You
could see that it was a creature, a real life
at once living, breathing creature.
Speaker 15: Harminid researcher Laurie Pye witnessed the Iceman for himself. It
triggered a life long passion.
Speaker 16: Body was in a seven foot freezer, long and about
three feet wide and about three and a half feet deep.
It was put in with its knees lifted up a
little bit, and it had its arm up over its head.
Speaker 15: Over the years, showman Frank Hanson came out with several
stories about how this creature was found. At one point,
Hanson even claimed to have killed it himself. In the
Minnesota Woods. Lloyd Pye believes this is a credible story.
Speaker 16: It sees him, It puts its arm up like this
to protect its face that he shoots through the wrist.
The bullet plows right between those two bones, goes into
the eye and blows out the back of the head.
Iceman shows us by its reality that what we think
about ourselves and about.
Speaker 6: The again, the fauna on earth is just not the
way it is.
Speaker 2: They had very big hands and big feet, and they said,
if you get a fake a dummy, why would you
give extremely big hands and big feet. And I think
it's something to do with when they measure children's rate
of growth, they're always aks ray the hands. Yeah, they
can work out your growth rate through your bones and
your fingers. And perhaps this is a similar thing with
the Sasquatches with their big hands. I don't know for sure,
but that's just like dogs.
Speaker 4: Isn't there a dog with big fit's with big talks.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't have any big, big dogs in blocks of ice,
but I can go with that. But yeah, So he
supported the Patterson given in film, which has been analyzed
now and they managed to stabilize the footage which is something. Obviously,
Patson and Gimming when they shot that in ninety six
had no idea that no one did, as such technologies
would exist fifty sixty years later.
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm frangs with Gimmel and as honest as
a die. It's really honest. Blake sends you meet him
ten minutes talking. Now, that guy wouldn't fake anything. It's
just you know, and you know you look at the
analysis of it. I mean, you know, it's a massive,
big trapezia muscle on his back like a gorilla's showing.
Speaker 17: You know, how far away was she when you first
saw her, just across the creek about like from here
across the creek.
Speaker 3: That's when I first saw her.
Speaker 18: She's standing upright. I thought, you know, this isn't this
is unreal, the way it was moving, a massive muscle.
Roger had the camera up to his eyes, and he
stumbled and fell where you can see the shakiness part.
Speaker 8: I rode across the creek.
Speaker 18: I got off the horse and took my rifle out
of the scabbard in case I had to make a shot.
She made that turn to look keep on walker. She
went on up out of side of that canyon. All
this time, I'm thinking, Holy matrons, the thing do exist.
Speaker 4: People don't have that. I mean, the the legs of
the tours say the way it moves. Not even you man.
You know, people said, somebody to grinds it and you're
walking across a dry creek bed looking over your shoulder,
we go flat on our face, wouldn't we? Yeah, you know,
But that's just some interesting that floated that animal.
Speaker 2: I saw an interview with a girl who is a costumer.
They call them furries and they make fair.
Speaker 4: That's amazing that that is really in that video.
Speaker 2: I talk us about it. How if you're in a suit,
you cannot see where you're going.
Speaker 4: Any same thing of that video. She said that you
can said the shop way of going up his leg
needed hydraulics to get that, and she said they would
not have had hydraulics, saying they don't think you're rolling
about that to make it look authentic. She said, someone
really stately art for people have this hydraulic effect on that.
But they wouldn't have known about that.
Speaker 3: Then why it is the only as far as far
as the legal issue goes, I mean, the what supposing
these creatures were of knowledge? I mean it would all
depend on what kind of creature they were. So physically
they're clearly not human. They as as we are. However,
they are simmy and they're they're obviously a type of
ape and they walk like we do. No other unless
the orang pendeck is not real. We are the earlier,
and that could be real. I know Richard's got his
own opinions on that.
Speaker 4: There's a couple of a while cameramana seeing Gregory holding
I think Australian camera man a sitting it and Debbie
marked the conserve officers saying it. I mean. I spoke
to Gordon Bikkannon it's got to shu wildlife cameraman. He
was quite ten. I'm trying to get funding because you know,
he said, the others are a bit you know, you know,
are such that you know, you get you know, big fluting,
that will be you know, you can get a bad reputation,
he said. The ramped deck said, you know, we camera
cameraman saying, yeah, that's a real animal.
Speaker 3: I think that's really you're talking to Richard. I think
it is there. But officially we're the only upright walking
primate on the planet. I mean in the past, there
were more. There were more that's walked up and walked
on two legs. They had their hands free to grasp things,
and they have flat feet like we do. The Gigantapithecus
is one that's often mentioned as possibly could be related
to modern bigfoot. I suppose the opera stances is something
because it's something unique to us. When if we see
another cretion and there's not human that appears that has
the same kind of locomotion and stands that we do,
we may, as indeed Lloyd's you know the sky Lloyd
knew as we may start thinking, well, should we consider
these things animals? Now? I suppose it would depend on
the level of intelligence. This is a debate that goes
back to the ethics of whale hunting, when scientists started
to discover things about whales and dolphins that were not
known previously because people used to consider them a little
more than air breathing fish. Then they discover actually they
are actually very They have a huge brain, and they
are capable of communication of very complicated kind. They're clearly
are I mean I know that in I think it
was India that classified them as a third type of being.
So they're not animals in India, and officially I think
they're not animals, and there's something else. They're not human,
but they're classified as sort of semi human.
Speaker 4: Well, I mean gorillas. They've now shown gorillas have a language.
And when I slightly gorillas and out, but I thought
there's a primitive language going on here, and they now
say there is a language. And even monkeys they use
grammars use grammar. Yeah, there's a thing where they something
they use in front of a word that means it
might be a snake and not not sure, be careful.
And then there's another sound they make for this sound
snake that means, oh yeah, it's definitely a snake, and
they behave completely differently, And I said, that's a primitive
form of grammar.
Speaker 3: They found about like whale whale song and dolphins and
dolphin calls. These actually are bay zips law And I was,
it's like an organ. It's not just like making noises
for for simple communication the way dogs were dogs and
cats will, but it's something more complicated. So maybe there's
this this dividing line between animal and human will become
more blurred over time.
Speaker 4: I think you look at nuture there's loads of videos
of showing animals doing things that people didn't realize they
could do, you know, and I think when they're realizing
they're not quite as different as us. I think there's
a lot of.
Speaker 3: If I went to pan and someone served me nice
and sushi, and I'd say, that's a fish, give it
here and I'll I'll eat it. But if someone served
me he said, well, this is this came from this
is a piece of whale meat, I would I would
not want to eat that. I would feel uncomfortable eating
that for the reason. And so we are getting into
we're getting into a realm where supposing an upright creature
that had a very high level of intelligence. We don't
know how intelligent they are in terms of they could be.
It could be there more intelligent than say gorillas and chimps.
See this is why it could be. There's something. There
may be elements in the in the in the system.
I don't want to get too conspiratory because we're talking cryptosology,
but I but that may not like the idea that
such a creature could be acknowledged as real. If they
turn out to be too intelligent and too much like us,
Darcy Weir, a guy who he specializes in uthology, but
he also deals with cryptozoology. He may he's a documentary filmmaker.
I interviewed him talking about their Saskuatch and about how
some of the loggers have been in Canada where he
comes from. In British Columbia. They were, they they've they're
reports of them dying and the body's being taken away
by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. Now this is this
is extraorly because we hear this in New fology all
the time that there are like crash retrievals like Roswell,
where the government come in, they see off the area,
they remove all this decisive physical evidence, and then they
say it was a weather balloon. This is the first
time I've come across this kind of activity relating to
cryptid Is there.
Speaker 4: Right, Helene's fire. They're supposedly bigfoots taken away, did burns
and die, But you just don't know. Really, there's a
lot of fantasy stuff, and I find it quite difficult
in the big field. There is a lot of fantasy stuff.
I had a conversation with my friend he is American,
about this, and we both felt some of it goes
back to the barnum, the circus stuff. But it was
okay to great these fantasy animals because it was entertainment
and you know you could make money, you know, money
your family out of it. And he said, he feels it.
You know, it's still quite a big thing in some
cool it's trying to see the fanco and the reality
and I think it subdly it gives you know, some
on this big Foot.
Speaker 3: It's a bad name, of course, yeah, because you have
a signals noise and increases the noise in the signal.
But the point is, is there hypothetically a motive why
state actors would would want the big the existence of
the Bigfoot to remain a fringe official pseudo science because.
Speaker 4: A big one the log in the industry, I mean
the log of investments and this owl that was discovered
you know, all points in Oregon literally for loads of people,
you know, basically could log you know a lot of people,
Richard Sudden, they went very poor. So it is it
is a sort of point. There's also the religion side
bit that if it's a missing link, people don't want
to accept that. A lot of my you know, one
of my mentors some contral he's also a pastor, and
he prefers to call it a regressed man or a
type of man, use the word homenode. And you know
he's into evolution, but he feels more comfortable because of
his religion. So it's difficult, really, it would. It would
challenge a lot of people, wouldn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, sir, the west men.
Speaker 3: Sorry, I just bought a link in chat. You don't,
I mean, you don't. You don't have to stop the
program to read it, but yeah, it's your leisure you
might find interesting. It's called keeping big Foot Secret. It's
actually an article I wrote and when did I write it?
Twenty twenty two about this particular subject, about this particular possibility.
I mentioned Darcy and his reports that he discovered.
Speaker 2: I'll put that link in our program description.
Speaker 3: Oh thanks, yeah.
Speaker 2: Giving back to this pastor. Then, who would prefer to
keep Bigfoot described as a rested man?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that's some of the first nation people
feel that Bigfoot was originally a man and then something
happened when it's at forest, and then he became more
man like that. There is some evidence of you know,
feral children, they get hair don't they waned them to
keep the bodies warm. And people on the rexia do
they start to get the thuds on them to keep
the bodies warm, So that that's one theory. So but
you know, obviously this you know people have some bigfoot
close to they they're not you know, they don't look
like a man a massive you know, but you know
there is Melbourne Ketchen, wasn't it. I mean the basis
or people just corrupted DNA. Yeah, she believed that part
of it came from I can't remember which way around,
but the male was human and the female was a
big four vice birds, so I think. But that's her theory.
I mean, she's one of the people who analyzed the
DNA of bodies in you know, the Twin Towers and
nine to eleven. But Professor Bryan Sykes says, there's you know,
the geneticist used to know before he died, so there's
a real risk of contamination. And then another guide pioneered
this d N a washing thing which when they get
sample they have to wash off contaminated DNA and exactly,
but it's very very high risk, you know, of getting contamination,
so it's difficult.
Speaker 3: Well yeah, there was a there is a sorry, okay,
there are there are stories that they appear all the
time about about a human hybrids hybridization. In fact, there
was even there's even been experiments done, especially in the
Soviet Union, of an attempt to hybridize a human and
the eight there's a legend of one that was done
in the United States once, but it was kept quiet
and there was a baby that was apparently then put
to sleep. Although it's it appears that some animals can hybridize.
When that donkeys and horses can hybridize, we know that
sheep and goats can hybridize. They can then could produce offspring.
There there's I don't think I think there's some specific
reason why humans can't with other great apes. It's something
to do with our chromosome number or something that we
can't actually hybridize, because there's been attempts to do it
in scientific circumstances. There's legends in every country where we
live alongside these beings that some occasionally we get together
with them for saucy romps and create little half babies,
little babies and things like that. There's no evidence of that.
There's no evidence that happens.
Speaker 2: It's interesting. I'll just have to tell you this funny
story as we're talking about apes and gins and gorillas
and things. Now, about twenty ten and something like that.
I was invited to this wedding.
Speaker 3: No, was it a wedding.
Speaker 2: I met some people. No, I met some people. That's right.
I met some people at an event, and my friend
that was with me had met them initially at a wedding.
So that's where the wedding thing comes in. So it's
nothing to do with the wedding on this partif occasion.
But I was chatting to them and the husband said
that his wife that was there, She wasn't actually telling
me this, but husband related me the story. Said his
wife and her father was the original commercial TV director
that directed the PG tips Chimpanzee adverts.
Speaker 8: Get in the hang of It?
Speaker 10: Minda Banister's son, We do, Marie san I shifted more
piano than.
Speaker 8: About mister shif Latelyfreshman, Thank you.
Speaker 2: Most kindly, madam.
Speaker 3: One way shifting it.
Speaker 14: When a good cup of tea really counts, you're right
to drink brook b on PG tips.
Speaker 4: It's the tea can really taste died.
Speaker 2: Do you know the piano's on my foot.
Speaker 4: Where you got the PG tips pretty mum used to
some size look after them because he twice cross too,
and the keeper was away look after them and he
said there's an adult. They just rip your arm off.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, but you know when when when the adverts
became really popular in the UK and the director this
lady's father used to direct about five or six of
them where you've got the chimps drinking the tea and
pushing the piano and that kind of stuff, you know,
and they're saying you hummett son, I'll play it all
that kind of stuff, and they became very popular. Well,
the story when that Thedas related to me said that
this lady's father received a phone call from a German
TV company who had seen the British TV adverts the
PG tips chimpanzees, and he said, we really love these
adverts with the chimpanzee is drinking the tea and talking.
Would you remake them for the German television commercial market?
But could you do one thing? Could could you teach
the chimpanzees to speak German?
Speaker 4: This guy actually speaking.
Speaker 2: It's hilarious when you talk about having verbs or adjectives.
They reminded me of that, so I thought, oh, yeah,
I still really speaking. Yeah, this is last.
Speaker 3: There was a really called Denise Hearsing. Incidentally, she's trying
to learn the dolphins language and she's she she she can't,
she doesn't has any success, but she has worked out.
Apparently dolphins in different part of the world speak different
languages the way way the way we humans do, perhaps,
so her worst continuing and she's she's, she's like spends
a lot of time, like right, recording them and trying
to decode them and even trying to have conversations and
things like that.
Speaker 4: They're amazing animals. I did my dissertation on dolphin behavior
for my first degree, and I've swum will dolphins and
they are quite amazing things. The dingle dolphin with my partners, Yeah,
we've started and we part the car on the beach
and we thought, oh, there's grass growing on the beach.
Speaker 2: Was fine.
Speaker 4: We did really the highest tide of the year. The
dolphin coming over to us. We were around the corner
from the car coming up, just doing this amazing leap
and then going the way and looking at us as
if to say, you've got to come around the corner cart.
You know she can't thinking that level, but a double
backfliff means your car's thinkinguid idiot, definitely trying to show
us it's really funny. It kept like coming backwards and
then forward.
Speaker 2: Which again.
Speaker 3: Dolphins to start selling PG tips in future. That's anything
it's funny will come out for the tourists. It's in
count This is in County Kerry on the far south
west of Ireland and he's been there for years and
of course people feed him. They always bring things to
feed him with, so he's not going to go anywhere
as long as people keep feeding him.
Speaker 4: The original ones died. They think that they see some
songy mark too another dolphin. Yeah, rich role and it
was very bizarre and they were even accused of bringing
another one in, but it wasn't. It was just a
whild one and probably said the other one getting attention
and then took over. Yeah about it.
Speaker 3: There's probably more than one all the long.
Speaker 2: I think it's quite yeah my well opinion.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was quite a large one. I remember it
kept flying over the head and missed me by inches
on the size of a horse.
Speaker 3: It was fun.
Speaker 4: It was pretty The ones that Dolph know and are
quite stunted. This was the full grown and it was
not small.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I mean there's there was Flipper. I remember
Flipper from the TV series back in the sixties and seventies.
I always was under the impression of dolphins saved people from
sharks because in Flip a dolphin the dog with regard
and batter sharks in the stomach or something.
Speaker 4: A big whale wasn't that the save research for a
world back. She the whale literally kept pushing her and
she thought, what's it pushing before? And then she realized
that I think it was great white nearby right video
is this and basically she wouldn't have it kept pushing
her with its bin, and then she realized that it
was trying to save her ill.
Speaker 3: Wow, this is this is why you know, kindness to
animals has to be one of the cornerstones of civilization.
In my view, we we humans if we if we
don't know, if we're not kind to animals, then we
can't call ourselves at a civilized species because we especially
because we don't know, we especially animals, we don't know.
We don't know anything about them. Sometimes we learn they're
very very intelligent, but we still treat them like dirt,
still put them in tanks and cages and and kill
them and things like this. So there's I think that
the Bigfoot issue has I think a lot of ethic
is the ethical issues associated with it, and I think
this is going to become more apparent as we gather
more evidence about its behavior.
Speaker 2: When you went to Australia, Ben, did you hear anything
of the Australian Bigfoot when he was out there?
Speaker 3: The Yaowie? No? I didn't. I'm to be honest. I
had less of an interesting there. This was in two thousands.
I went there. I had less of interesting than I
do now. I had a vague interest. I mean I
read a couple of books I have had. I've always
had a kind of interest in this sort of thing.
But there is there is a big full night creature called, yeah,
the Yowie, and there's a guy called Gary Opitt who's
been researching it, along with things like mermaids and other
weird creatures that live around the coast of Australia and
live on the continents of Australia. It goes it's The
stories date back to Aboriginal times and it's not unlike
the American Bigfoot is similar in appearance.
Speaker 2: I think it's.
Speaker 3: Slightly smaller, but it's people's sightings continue to this day.
Speaker 2: I saw a guy at Dorset Earth Mysteries back in
February called Richard Hotly. I think his name is Hunty
Hotly Early. I can't remember his surname, forgive me. But
he did a really good album presentation on bigfoot and
he covered briefly the hour and he had a photograph
of one. They're being caught on a security camera or something,
and you could clearly see it had a toe that
came out rather like a hand, So it was more
like a sort of a chimp's kind of foot, you
feel like, rather than the straightforward bigfoot that we're used
to in the Pacific Northwest or something.
Speaker 3: Maybe maybe a semi arboreal maybe climbed trees occasionally. Yeah, yeah,
a good resource for anything.
Speaker 2: Then the thumbs down really no ah.
Speaker 4: A lot of people have seen them say that. I
wasn't looking at the hands, but I know people send them.
Sent the thumbs a lot lower than I. Bigfoot climb
trees as well, and.
Speaker 3: Source of the sort of thing, and they're not paying me
to advertise or anything like that. It's next Nexus magazine
for the weird things in Australia. It's an Australian based
magazine that covers this sort of thing. I mean great
detail and I very much recommend it. That's that's just
my personal opinion. Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: There were all sort of things with big foot eat
then to survive out in the worlds of the Northwest
and Canada.
Speaker 4: It's omnivore. They it's often as good way of seeing.
It's in the autumn when you've got the berries because
I have the backs the people, so that there's a
lot of signs there. And they also eat. There's often
clams have stacked they think a big foot sale bell
those going water after food. They often kill pigs a
deal that they find them with their legs ripped off
with a beer ripped off with their hands, rather than
the bear scratched with a poor there's some little so
that the hold the way. They basically grabbed the top
of the head of the bottom and they rip bead
in two. There's a lot of bears wouldn't be able
to do that. So there's yeah, and also bark. They
find bark stripped off that's been done with massive, big hands,
and sometimes it's really high up, so the human definitely
wouldn't have done it. There's bears. You can see the
claus Go was a picture. It's like you know, stripped
click fingers. Yeah, so they eat lots of different things.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I saw this when this garage. To do his presentation,
he showed some trees that they believe for Bigfoot kind
of marker points I think where they live a tree
and they'll take it and stick it upside down.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, was Chimped do that something similar? They'll
do things were stick supposedly Chimped so and I'm not sure.
I mean, thrillers do amazing. I thought it was done
by ying and they see wing being thing of the
nest and it looks like your basket and yet it's
actually just the undergrowth. I walked through one of them,
and they're just amazing.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. So this this guy, Richard was talking about
the fact that they found similar kind of nests and
what they think if I call it correckly, he said
that this would be the lookout nest, if you like,
of one of the big Foot to look out for
trouble and he's like the sentry for maybe the rest
of them that are out somewhere in the woods somewhere, Yeah,
and that's his base for the night or something.
Speaker 4: I've seen one. I've seen what we think was one,
and you could tell the it's not Heather. It was
some sort of it's American plans on the way it was,
but it was a bit like Heather, like you rye
primitive heads on it, like you had that, and you
could see where something in the weird hands have taken
the bits and it was all in a big pile.
That was quite interesting. That definitely looked like something had
made an nest with hands, and yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's obviously not like it's it's going to
be something specifically to a particular creature that has that dexterity, you.
Speaker 4: Know, tops off jars of the bits. But raccoons can
do that as well, and raccoons can a big futs
are sometimes accused of. There's also a weird thing my
friend shaken me a picture of that. They find these mice,
dead mice, but they're wrapped up in aneath, almost like wrapping,
and they're all tucked under and they reckon. That's big futs.
So it's like it's a snack relating, you know, wow,
the link and it's really intricately done, looks like weaving
and it's all tucked under.
Speaker 7: And you know it's before day. So the other is
that we can not cover the story of Albert Astman,
who was the gold prospector from ninety.
Speaker 2: Did you you know the story well to the to
reach ou.
Speaker 4: He was in a sleeping bag and something suddenly grabbed
him and threw him over his shoulder and you know,
basically I don't know how he did it. They managed
to see it was a big fund and then it threw
him at a cab and it's theory was that they
they wanted him from make for the female and he
managed he managed to get away by throwing I think
snuff at its face studdenly or something.
Speaker 2: It was joking and.
Speaker 4: He managed to leg it. But yeah, yeah, an interesting
one as well, told by Roosevelt as the American President.
And they were one of them said he go off
and get the last of the traps, and he came
back the other way had his neck broken, and they'd
seen the big footprints and they'd heard the sound and
them and something had breaking his neck, so they reckon.
That was a big fun and that was both quite
reliable report, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, But the album Austin's Story, it was the
a Couver I think, and he was about like in
his sixties when he came forward with his story, because
he was only like early twenties or something at the
time when this happened to it. The recent he came
forward is I think in the late fifties he started
to see reports appearing in like Life magazine or something
about new reports of loggers encountering large footprints in the
words and things, and he thought, I'm going to tell
my story. Now is the time. And he gave reports
even to like a sheriff who said, this is the
most honest report down to worth guy I've ever met.
And he's telling me as honest as the day, is
the truth, and he's I think he even went a
light detective machine for what it's worth. But yeah, he
was out. He was I think he was taken by
a Native American, uh, you know, Canadian First Nations person.
I think as a as a guy. But it only
take him so far and he sort of said watch
out for the big man in the woods and he
kind of last, not really know what he was talking.
And for the first four nights he had his little
camp and he kept thinking raccoons and that was stealing
his stuff, and he knew something was watching him and
taking his stuff. It wasn't until the fourth night he
suddenly said he found himself hauled over the shoulder of
something big and he fell into the bottom of his
beeping bag. I think because he had all his stuff
with him, he managed to carry it with him. And
they them a.
Speaker 4: Lot of people do they, yeah, eating back, that's quite
normal now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So he said that he was in the estimated
he was in this sleeping bag for about four hours
being bumped and go from miles a mile and he
was taken to this enclosure somewhere. And it's only as
the day started to play he could hear the breathing
of this creature, but he wasn't sure what it was.
It's only as the dawns started to come up and
it started to get like he realized he was amongst these.
I mean, he probably wouldn't have called them big foot
at the time, but big hairy people. And there was
like two a mother and father, and like there was
a daughter and a son who were sort of teenagers
and and he said that they kept in them for
like six days or something. Trapped. They wouldn't let him escape,
so he would kind of he tried speaking to them.
He'd say, what do you fellas want with me? But
they just grunted and made they kind of talked their
own language or something.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, there's the Sierra sound. My friends actually
heard that. He's had it thing whacked on the side
of his truck and he heard them, and he said
that they really really is real. They do. Wow, there
is like a primative and you listen to the recordings
of it on more heads done, and it sounds like
some primitive exactly what he'd expect a primative a month
and be doing. Yeah, sounds and they had picked can
analyze it, and I say, it's definitely in between you
and eight.
Speaker 3: Wowful ladies had that. In his documentary, he featured the
Sierra sounds I remember, but he didn't make any conclusion
about what caused them. But he did include them in
his documentary about the hunters. It's just because it showed,
I mean, we if you want to go looking for
these bigfoot people are bigfoot creatures, whatever they are, you've
got to be cautious because they can be aggressive, and
especially in Alaska where the nanty Arch in particular seems
to have evolved some very very hostile behavior even though
it's it seems to be physically very similar to the
other bigfoot, but.
Speaker 4: They seem to get bigger the high, the colder you go,
which is consistent with real animals. Could you look at
your signs of polar bears, it's like, remember the scientific principle,
but it's like helping them retain east. That's why polar
bears so massive American you know, yeah, so it's I
mean the Florida the scumcakes relatively small about you know,
shy foot size of a person, whereas there some of
the Alaskan ones and you know Canadian one there. You know,
you get reports of twelve foot as it is consistent
with what you'd expect. The culvert gets the biggie need
to be.
Speaker 3: So there's an entire town in Alaska that has to
be abandoned, and there's there's also stories about why that happened,
because it's quite a successful like fishing village. Some people
say it's because of the.
Speaker 4: People kept being bound with their next broaden, didn't they.
Speaker 3: There's a really good it's a story of documentary is
like a home video really that has been produced as
a documentary. As some people who go and visit port
Lock it's quite exciting and they go back to port
Lot to check it out.
Speaker 14: Wow.
Speaker 2: Wow. So getting back to Gimbling Bob is it Bob Gimblin. Yeah,
So for those that need to know this.
Speaker 4: The Gimblin g I M L I M.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And there's another guy called Bob Gimblin. He does things
about why yeah, it was a different spelling. Yeah, I
can't remember spelling.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, So for those that need to know the story,
this is a film taken in Bluff Creek. In was
in northern California. And you've been.
Speaker 4: It's northern California. Yeah, it's basically. Yeah, there's actually a
place called Bellen Stand next to the sign. It's quite
a big area and yeah, northern California.
Speaker 2: And they had gone there searching for Bigfoot because he
had become a bit of a fan of Bigfoot footprints.
Roger Patterson, and he had hired a Sinney camera Codak
Syney camera and I think they were out there for
four days, initially looking for bigfoot footprints, and they were
walking down this this dried up creek riverbed with their
horses when they came around the corner and one of
the horses started to rear in fright or something, and
that was the clue that they were literally right on
the doorstep of a big foot who happened to be down,
presumably drinking some water. But it was crouching down when
they first saw it. And I think because Roger Patterson's
horse reared up, he sort of fell off his horse
but managed to land okay. He managed to get the
Sinney camera out of a bag or something on the
side of the horse, and he said to Bob Gimmlin,
cover me with your room in case something happens, and
so he did cover him, and he watched him, and
he said he'd fallen over originally when he's trying to
film this thing, and he obviously noticed them, and it
just got up and started to walk away, but then
it gave the classic look back at them over its
shoulder as it walked away, and I remember I don't
know which person said it out the two, but one
of them said it gave a look of utter disgust
at them. That's the way they perceived that look. And
since that film has been analyzed, the there's a mark
you see it on the thigh of Patty as she's
walking away. It's like a black, long mark. And yeah,
they say that that is where they know it's not
a soup because it's where the fur has been worn
down as the handkeeps moving past.
Speaker 4: It, which is normal for this sort of animal. Yeah, yeah,
some animals with long arms. They do that, and I
think there's all saying. They say, you can see a
rupture tendon on a leg as well, which isn't something's face,
you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, and they you you can see the toes
bending up as it's about to take its step into
the thing. That's so that's something you'd never ever be
able to do in a sup And around that time
they were making the Planet of the Eighth films. I
think the first Planet the X film was released a
year later in nineteen sixty eight, so it's literally in
nineteen sixty seven they were in production for that, yeah movie,
and the special effects makeup expert was guy called John Chambers,
and he had obviously been practicing and trying to tried
all sorts of things to try and get the look
of the planet. He apes correct various makeup tests, and
they tried various masks and things, and eventually they settled
on this idea of individual appliances that have been stuck
on their faces and they get a number of expressions.
And I believe that some years later when he has
retired and in a nursing home, because I don't think
he would have said this professionally whilst he was an
employment and this lady apparently disguised herself as a nursing
home nurse to get this statement from him. She went
in undercover and got a statement. She started talking to
pretending she worked at this nursing Home's that's as I
understand it. And she started talking and I think she
may have even secretly recorded, I'm not sure, but that
she started to ask him about this Patty film and
what did you think of it? She says, do you
think you could do this kind of makeup on something
like that? And he allegedly said to her, and of
course he thought was just a nurse. He didn't think
she was a report or anything like that. He said, oh,
I'm good, but I'm.
Speaker 3: Not that good.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's amazing that I just showed that. And Bil
Mounts the same, Bill Mons who did Uh, I think
the thing they did it's the Predator Bill months as well,
but he did. He did Harry and Harry and Henderson's
and he was asked to give his opinion on the
Pattic build in terms of what it costume. And he's
now a big far So that says it all. It
so a bit after being asked to analyze Patty's film.
He said that is a real animal.
Speaker 3: That is wow.
Speaker 4: And he's now a big fire. He gives talk.
Speaker 2: I saw it was Rick Baker being in the big
Foot film and the Henderson's always thought that was Rick
Baker who did the costume for King Coin.
Speaker 9: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I don't know if I feel Mum's had something to
do with with Harry and Andy's out, but I remember
I think they might have. Yeah, it might have been
the move and then we had something to do with it.
Speaker 2: There's probably a number of people that are, you know,
working on the the suit to make it work. Yeah, yeah,
because they have to do all the muscle twitches and
that's probably done with cables. People out a shot, you know,
and the in the in the Patty film, you just
see one person or creature walking along, muscles flexing as
you say, the toes moving. There's no one else's side.
Speaker 12: Now.
Speaker 2: The other thing, I haven't looked into this deeply, but
I've heard kind of bits and pieces and I've got
to watch a few more YouTube videas to get some
insight into this. But maybe you might know that there's
talk or something a bit big for massacre in that
area or something, do you know, think about them.
Speaker 4: I mean I've seen that interpretations of it and it's
just laughaball. You know, they're looking at little bits of
you know, because they obviously the film digitized, now is
it going to get and they're trying to interpret things
and now I seems to laughable because.
Speaker 2: Because there's someone that says Bob about.
Speaker 4: There's treated that you know, just oh god, you know right,
I mean, it's just laughable.
Speaker 2: There's no other big Foots in the area.
Speaker 3: That's a good and that's a good news. And I
wouldn't want that to be real.
Speaker 4: No, I mean, it could well have been other big
Foots because that typical thing the big Foot will do,
it will make itself seen to divert your away from
the young ya. So they say, there's been a lot
of accounts that where they realize they're young ones and
they'll get themselves. So you look at them and while
you're turning away, they grab the younger. They get the
younger out of the way, so they reckon. Sometimes I
purposely make sure they're seeing so you can get that
could be well, there's one theory what was happening that
she wanted to be seen because she was trying to
get no way from a young.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, if you're going to massacre them,
surely someone would have brought forth a body. I mean,
apart from this guy Frank Hanson who did the Minnesota
rised balet As, he was involved in it as well,
but he was a different part of the country. But
I mean that there appears to be frames where someone's
analyzed it and believes there's another bigfoot sighted in the
trees or something like that, and he could just be
but I don't know. But certainly the bigfoot, the Patty one,
is the clearest one we've got, and even today people
are debating whether it's real or not. And you're thinking,
if that was fake. It would have been found out
years ago, wouldn't it. I mean, I've watched all.
Speaker 4: The analyzes of it. I've spoken to Gimlin. I was beect.
I one hundred percent think that's a real thing. That
he's very similar to what I saw. The ones I
saw were males. My friend said they were a lot
more athletic, but she's a female and she's can't pick
a hit. It's going to be a little more chunky,
you know. So yeah, yeah, they're very, very similar for
what I saw.
Speaker 2: And Gimnen suffered a lot in his personal life over this,
didn't he.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean initially they got so sick of the
ridicule that he sold the film where are hardly anything
literally you know, tiny amount to the widow of them
ready down, hit done, because you know, they sort of
already had tried really hard to find big Foot, got
really angry and disillusion near the end, so he just
sell it to him and he didn't want them to
do with it. And it wasn't it said until people started,
you know, these programs like Finding big Foot and a
people started taking it seriously. He suddenly thought he'd start
talking about it then, But he didn't talk about it
the years, you know, I mean they I think he
was on R. C. Clark's Mysterious Well, but I think
that was about the only site, you know, time of year.
Fear that he wasn't. You know, he's only recently regularly
started to do stuff. I mean, he's an elder man now,
he's now in the nineties. But you know, and he'll
say to you this was loads of years ago. He'll
be quite honest, and I'll say my memory might have distorted,
but said, I know what's all he said, but details
of it I might have distorted because my memory might
not be.
Speaker 2: He's been pretty honest, isn't he. He really, he's really.
Speaker 4: Honest, and you know, he'll tell you all about you
know that he said, you know, it could have been
a man in monk suit, could have been shut up,
but perhaps I really don't think so, because he looked
like a real animal. And he'll say, you know that
they were tracking it, and he said, you know, an
idiot would have got had by bear or something interested
in the suit like that, so he would have been
attacked by something or shot. So you know, it's just
he said, he really thinks it's you know it's a
real deal. But you know he's very very old. You
know when they'll say he won and go off in
loads since say awsoor one. I was at the camp
five once, so we saw some of the shadows that
could have been another one. Brother, I'm not too sure.
You know, he he went say officed loads, you know,
like he would if you were you know, not being there.
It's very honest. You know, I was angry when people
tried to rip him apart. Is meeting me so honored.
Speaker 2: Yeah, see he comes across. I mean I saw him
on the I saw the Office Clark program. He was
about forty five or something, you know, yeah, very fit,
younger guy, and now he's like ninety five or something. Thinking,
my god, this guy is still around. You know, it's
still amazing.
Speaker 18: Though.
Speaker 4: It's like just just before I sort of met him,
we were out, I think when he twelve or something,
one of my first sun went out and we got
a report that he'd been thrown very badly by a
horse into a wall or fence. It broke in his
neck back and he was in a round and he
was expected he might not survive this one, you know,
because he used to break in horses, still breaking in
horses in his eighties, you know, if I started up
and I met him about a year and a half
after that, and he was clearly very stiff, you know,
around the top because it's still got probably permanent damage.
But his legs like seventeen he crosses them. I couldn't
even do that. I mean, it's just amazing when he
sits down. These legs are legs that are obviously used
to grabbing on to the horses. Ben, do you like anywhere?
He's a guy, you know, I mean, and I met him,
he was late eighties, but I mean he's still incredibly
fit for his age.
Speaker 3: Yeah wow wow.
Speaker 5: So so he.
Speaker 2: Again, I don't know which one said it probably probably
boast of them, I imagine, but i'd imagine the more
statements we're in, they're probably coming from from Bob giving
him because he's the surviving member of the two. But
they said they wish they had just shot the darn
thing to stop all this debate, because they could have
just brought it in and it was saying a lot
of headaches.
Speaker 4: So Hi, I don't think Bob would have because he's
part the.
Speaker 2: Our first nation.
Speaker 4: I don't think he might be Cherokee. I know he's
half you know, half made First Nation Native American, so
dating hey would is their beliefs are very strong. You know,
you don't do anything. So it could have been Patterson,
but I don't think Bob would have said that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but they also took and this is mentioned
in the Lloyd Pie book, which I'd recommend anyone to
go if you're interested in the big Foot thing. He
actually believes the Neanderthals, the Bigfoot Neanderthals that have not
died out and they've just moved further into the.
Speaker 4: Anderthals or too advanced. This is definitely I would say, Well,
I saw the closest Homo happily seem more privative, right, Okay,
I reckon the Russian almast is possibly the descriptions on
it in a way, but what I saw at home,
my habilist, is far more primitive. Because amazingly, the ander
tolls they were just like me and you. You wouldn't
be able to tell a difference, you know, and thick
set person, you know, with a big brow, you know,
you wouldn't you wouldn't be able to tell the difference
if you took them down the high street, you know,
so you know, and they I mean they were you know,
quite advanced and what to shoe that could speak. But
there's some evidence they're quite an advanced culture. But I
think it's going to be a lot more primitive than Neanderthals.
I know there's a lot of books about that. Definitely. Yeah,
it's going to be a lot more primitive.
Speaker 15: Really.
Speaker 2: I think it's because the Neanderthals are the only one
that most people have heard of on on the kind
of you know, the average person in the street. They don't.
Speaker 4: They keep saying that, but yeah, exactly, yeah, it's quick
come up the tongue, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Rather it's a bit of yeah, yeah, that's sounds better.
Speaker 4: That's the same other or they've got different name, but yeah, it.
Speaker 2: Works well with the zacharais Stitching sort of stuff as well.
Which zacharais Stitching was the guy that came up with
the idea of the planet Nibiru, which came into our
all but like fifty thousand years ago or something, and
they created slaves on the Earth to mine their gold,
and he sort of thinks that that was where the
Neanderthal came from. And then I don't know, parts of
humanity divided off, and maybe that's where the Bigfoot ended
up going to escape from from man as man developed.
That was a kind of rough theory anyway, But I
would suggest anyone go and look at the revised version
of the book. Everything you know is wronged by Lloyd
Pye is now passed on unfortunately. So but there's also
videos on YouTube ways presenting his talks and his discussions
about it.
Speaker 4: But he was I mean Gilgabash, the ggbash I reckon
And is it the one of the easn ape man?
Speaker 2: Yeah, are really interesting.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: They He's meant to be an ape man, which is interesting,
you know, well be you know, he could possibly have
been in the antetol. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Right Well, we're drawn to a close here, So is
there anything you'd like to promote? JACKI are you doing
any presentations or trips or podcasts or books or anything?
Speaker 4: Not really myself and Richard Reeman going up with Richard
to do conference a Lapis and I'm going to have
a bit of a two or weird things up the
north and they're going to get a bottom lake the
monster there and get a whipby look around there. The
paranormal stuff as well, so I also do paranormal investigations.
So yeah, they were just going to try to find
they're supposed to be at the East coast sort of
just from Newcastle. There's you know, bodies were found trust
happen supposedly serpent sacers, but and has been a thing
like a lot less monster sing up the coast the
witnessed by people, so that's quite.
Speaker 3: An interesting one.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so there's yeah, I might do things like that,
but longer trips. I really want to get to Australia
to look for the pilots saying, you know, Richard's one
of Richard's things. But I've also spoken to a lot
a lot of people. And then we're going again to
add the mound to the research again. Jeff the Talkien mongoose,
although we do have a logo Simon Peg stolen Mongoose
because they didn't have that film. But we weren't impressed
with the film. It was a bit of fun, but
it wasn't very accurate. But yeah, yeah, so and I'm
hoping to get out big footing again in America.
Speaker 2: Eggs and I don't believe there's a.
Speaker 4: English big foot. I think if there is anything, it's
paranormal probably.
Speaker 2: Yeah, mm hmmm, yeah, we've hardly even touched on the paranorls.
I had a big foot associated with UFOs and things,
which I know Richard doesn't believe that connection, does he
sort of thing.
Speaker 4: I think they're just inquisitive if there was in UFO,
they go and have a look like we would, and
I think they just be associated. Just because things two
things go together, doesn't mean they're spirlers correlations, you know. Yeah,
what that big thing in the sky doesn't mean that's
from the big thing in the sky.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like us, they're probably thinking that we're from it
as well. Interesting enough. Yeah, well, Ben, what have you
got planned anything coming up?
Speaker 3: Well, I'm doing what I always do with my keeping
my blog and my radio shows going. So that's always, always, use,
always a continuous project for me. I don't forget to
check out my book ros while rising a novel of
disclosure if it's really good, Yes, thanks Jackie, thank you.
There's two sequels if you're in any way interested in
any of the subjects we talk about on this on
this program. So that's that's what I'm doing. I'm not speaking,
I'm speaking an event next year, next March. I don't
have the details yet, so well that you know, if
anyone else wants to book me to speak, just let
me know.
Speaker 2: Oh and you might come down to do a talk
next year for the Dulset Earth Mysteries might be returning
there for I think a fourth time which is going
to be grown Becaull next summer maybe, which will yeah,
well for anybody that's interested in my book, True Tales
of the Parallel, I think, is due in October. So
when this goes down air then maybe on the shelves
you can certainly pre order it off Amazon, True Tales
of the Parallel by Neil Wart, which covers everything from
various ghosts and spirits and all sorts of strange things
which would be of interest to many people, I hope,
So look out for that. So thank you very much,
indeed to Ben and to Jackie. Oh and I better
plug Andy again AND's tuned in events. The October season
is upon us, so look out for Andy's tuned in
events on Facebook. And if you're in the Southeast and
you want to go to all of his events, find
tuned in events t you ned I think events, and
that will be on Facebook and you can perhaps find
out where Andy's going to be doing demonstrations as a
media ship and go meet Andy in person if you're there.
So thank you very much one and awful watching this.
Thank you again to Jackie and to Ben for join
us on the Parallel peep show and have a great Halloween. Everybody, cheers,
good night, Hi.
Speaker 4: The Count and Quackness and water.
Speaker 6: To back
Speaker 18: And then gaggered much mon