1
00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:12,279
Speaker 1: This is a studio both and production.

2
00:00:16,359 --> 00:00:19,160
Speaker 2: Day is July twelve, twenty twelve. Time is ten oh

3
00:00:19,199 --> 00:00:22,199
five am. Case number three oh six A one five

4
00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:25,280
six four two. This will be a meeting with Israel Keys.

5
00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:36,679
Present will be myself and TFO Jeff Bell, just us

6
00:00:36,679 --> 00:00:45,520
today my coffee.

7
00:00:47,359 --> 00:00:51,119
Speaker 3: All right, Well, we have to go through all the

8
00:00:51,119 --> 00:00:52,759
same we're going on.

9
00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:55,439
Speaker 4: I want to make sure, obviously, I have to take

10
00:00:55,479 --> 00:00:58,520
the court round that we didn't interrupt any lawyer meeting

11
00:00:58,600 --> 00:00:59,399
or anything like that when.

12
00:00:59,359 --> 00:01:00,600
Speaker 5: Came over picking this morning.

13
00:01:00,759 --> 00:01:05,040
Speaker 4: No, okay, I'm Whenever you pred your rights, you have

14
00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:07,920
the right to remain stile and understand that, yeah, anything

15
00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:09,439
you say ken will be used against you in the

16
00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:09,879
quarter of law.

17
00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:10,959
Speaker 3: You understand that, yep.

18
00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:12,519
Speaker 4: You have the right to talk to a lawyer and

19
00:01:12,599 --> 00:01:14,519
have him present with you while you're being questioned.

20
00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:15,799
Speaker 5: You understand that, yep.

21
00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:17,680
Speaker 4: If you cannot afford to hire a lawyer, one will

22
00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:19,959
be a point to represent you before and during any

23
00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:22,640
question if you wish to understand that, Yeah, you can

24
00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:25,120
decide at any time to exercise these rods and not

25
00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,120
answer any questions or make any statements. You understand that, Yeah,

26
00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:31,760
you understand each of those rights I've explained to you, Yes, Okay.

27
00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:37,040
Also have to remind you that we're here to talk

28
00:01:37,079 --> 00:01:39,480
about to other crimes. If we talk about anything and

29
00:01:39,519 --> 00:01:41,680
nothing to do with Samantha Cone and we can't talk

30
00:01:41,719 --> 00:01:43,760
about Samantha Cone, understand that.

31
00:01:43,879 --> 00:01:44,040
Speaker 3: Yep.

32
00:01:45,159 --> 00:01:45,519
Speaker 5: Okay.

33
00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:50,760
Speaker 4: You also have a stand by council, believe Rich Kirdner

34
00:01:51,079 --> 00:01:52,680
and possibly Japlin Walsh.

35
00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,319
Speaker 5: Would you like either one of those attorneys present today? Okay?

36
00:01:57,079 --> 00:01:59,760
Speaker 2: I think that's it you Primal Bart, do you forget anything?

37
00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:04,840
You're probably no better than us. One thing I wanted

38
00:02:04,879 --> 00:02:07,359
to do before we jump into anything is I messed

39
00:02:07,439 --> 00:02:09,439
up the other day and I wouldn't well, I just

40
00:02:09,479 --> 00:02:11,759
wasn't as thorough as I should have done. And I

41
00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:13,919
want to add the bolt registration number on here or

42
00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:16,479
I'm just gonna ask so it's clear what Bayliner we're

43
00:02:16,479 --> 00:02:17,319
talking about.

44
00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:38,639
Speaker 6: And then i'll just have you initial it. M. I'm

45
00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:40,719
gonna put the plate number from the trailer.

46
00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:51,919
Speaker 7: Two, today's the twelve, and then i'll just.

47
00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:53,800
Speaker 8: Have your initial buy over there.

48
00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:55,599
Speaker 5: Just that I made the addition.

49
00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,879
Speaker 8: With the boat. One thing I wanted to we wanted

50
00:03:03,879 --> 00:03:05,000
to show you was.

51
00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:11,759
Speaker 2: A couple of pictures they had asked I know you

52
00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:13,639
when we talked to you about it before, I wasn't

53
00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:15,199
in here, but I think it was Jeff and Steve

54
00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,479
that we're in here. You mentioned that there might be

55
00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,039
where there might be something, some blood or something like.

56
00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:22,800
Speaker 3: I didn't know how much at was left.

57
00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:24,520
Speaker 8: I'd answer that question.

58
00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:26,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, I'd taken it apart.

59
00:03:27,199 --> 00:03:30,159
Speaker 2: But if you can look at these and if you

60
00:03:30,199 --> 00:03:34,039
can see just maybe looking at them, or refresh your

61
00:03:34,039 --> 00:03:36,479
memory about where something might be or.

62
00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:40,680
Speaker 8: You know what what they should look.

63
00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:42,439
Speaker 5: For looking bad shape, does it.

64
00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:50,240
Speaker 3: Considers it's going to be in that ending?

65
00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:50,599
Speaker 2: Well?

66
00:03:52,159 --> 00:03:54,599
Speaker 5: Yeah, where wh where is the top end of the motor.

67
00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:56,080
Speaker 3: On this side?

68
00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:57,400
Speaker 4: Here?

69
00:03:57,719 --> 00:04:03,000
Speaker 3: Anywhere on this side? My guess if you find anything

70
00:04:03,039 --> 00:04:06,199
that's gonna be along these trim pieces, like underneath them

71
00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:10,039
or something, Okay, socause it got it, you know, I

72
00:04:10,159 --> 00:04:13,159
got on the fiberglass. I cleaned it, but I don't

73
00:04:13,159 --> 00:04:20,040
know if I Okay, where's the top end of the moment?

74
00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,319
I it probably got junk. I remember, I took it

75
00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:31,000
apart figure out what was wrong with the motor, and

76
00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:35,279
I think by the time I had figured out what

77
00:04:35,319 --> 00:04:37,000
was wrong with that, I decided the whole motor was

78
00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,519
gonna be scraped, so I think, yeah.

79
00:04:39,319 --> 00:04:40,879
Speaker 5: I think I just threw it away with all the

80
00:04:40,879 --> 00:04:41,879
parts I took off.

81
00:04:43,879 --> 00:04:46,079
Speaker 2: Anything in the boat, I don't They haven't looked in

82
00:04:46,199 --> 00:04:47,839
any of the stuff yet. You even know what's in here,

83
00:04:47,959 --> 00:04:49,600
what's in the tote or anything.

84
00:04:49,319 --> 00:04:50,600
Speaker 5: Like that would be there.

85
00:04:53,959 --> 00:04:57,240
Speaker 3: I d the tote. I don't remember exactly what's in

86
00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:00,639
the toe. Underneath the toe, there's uh removed bull floor

87
00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:07,079
panel where I used to keep concrete weights and stuff, Okay,

88
00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:13,480
And I would say any ropes or anything that are

89
00:05:13,759 --> 00:05:16,160
in the boat, I don't know one of them is

90
00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:18,639
gonna be like a tow rope for skiing, but there

91
00:05:18,639 --> 00:05:21,079
were I know I had quite a few other ropes

92
00:05:21,319 --> 00:05:23,480
in there as well that I would use for anchor

93
00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:25,920
ropes and tying the boat open stuff.

94
00:05:25,959 --> 00:05:32,720
Speaker 2: So any tools in the boat that you remember that

95
00:05:32,759 --> 00:05:35,000
would we should be looking for.

96
00:05:36,399 --> 00:05:39,000
Speaker 9: Anything else of interest is going to be in either

97
00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:42,759
those side pockets along the sides or in the glove

98
00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:48,000
box that I remember. I think there's there's a lot

99
00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:49,560
of storage compartments.

100
00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:51,560
Speaker 3: All over the boat, so I don't remember what all

101
00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:55,800
is that, but I know that there might be some

102
00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:59,160
knives in the glove box. There might be you know,

103
00:05:59,399 --> 00:06:02,480
miscellane stuff like that. I just kept with the boat

104
00:06:02,519 --> 00:06:03,680
at all times.

105
00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:09,519
Speaker 2: Okay, what we can do, also, if you're interested, is

106
00:06:09,519 --> 00:06:12,040
once they go through it, we'll have pictures of everything

107
00:06:12,079 --> 00:06:14,360
and we can show you that stuff too, if you

108
00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:15,639
if that would be helpful.

109
00:06:15,759 --> 00:06:17,399
Speaker 8: I'm sure it probably be helpful to trying to figure

110
00:06:17,439 --> 00:06:19,279
out what's in all this stuff when you can't see it,

111
00:06:20,639 --> 00:06:21,439
So we could do that.

112
00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, it doesn't look like anyone's been in there at

113
00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:25,279
all since I.

114
00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:27,199
Speaker 5: I was surprised how good the polstery seems like it's

115
00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:28,519
in pretty good condition. Still.

116
00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:33,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, well that was all brand new when I was it.

117
00:06:33,399 --> 00:06:36,959
That whole boat was gutted before I rebuilt it, So.

118
00:06:38,240 --> 00:06:39,519
Speaker 8: Why didn't you So you rebuilt it?

119
00:06:39,879 --> 00:06:39,920
Speaker 5: Like?

120
00:06:39,959 --> 00:06:41,920
Speaker 8: It doesn't look like a nineteen eighty two boat to me,

121
00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:42,680
That's why I was.

122
00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:45,519
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, the interior was trashed and I got it,

123
00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:48,079
so it's all new seats and upholstery and everything that

124
00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,160
makes sense. And I think I had to replace some

125
00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:53,680
glass and I don't.

126
00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:55,759
Speaker 5: Know, it's the carpeting and all that stuff.

127
00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:58,920
Speaker 3: I had to replaced the carpeting a couple of times,

128
00:07:03,319 --> 00:07:04,519
at least on the back section.

129
00:07:05,879 --> 00:07:07,920
Speaker 2: Is that brand new carpeting on the back section now

130
00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:10,000
or is it doing something that should be looked at?

131
00:07:10,399 --> 00:07:13,000
Speaker 3: Well, you might find stuff under the carpeting, but okay,

132
00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:15,839
there was new carpet and then I got going on it,

133
00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:16,720
so got it?

134
00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:25,199
Speaker 8: Okay, all right, that will be helpful. So do you

135
00:07:25,199 --> 00:07:26,600
want to copy of this? I actually the other day,

136
00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:26,920
but now.

137
00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:35,560
Speaker 2: All right, we had a couple of things, a few

138
00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:37,439
things you wanted to talk to you about today. I

139
00:07:37,439 --> 00:07:41,680
think Jeff mentioned kind of different than what the meetings,

140
00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:43,959
you know, our meetings normally are just some of it's

141
00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,279
kind of follow up stuff to what you have talked

142
00:07:46,279 --> 00:07:48,680
about before, just making clarification kind of stuff and just

143
00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:50,920
wrapping some of that stuff up, and then.

144
00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:58,839
Speaker 8: Just a couple of new things. But Loki, nothing's.

145
00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:59,360
Speaker 5: Start with the Eagle River.

146
00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:05,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, you got more photos, just play some familiar.

147
00:08:09,439 --> 00:08:15,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, the stuff was still there. There's more pictures down there.

148
00:08:15,519 --> 00:08:25,279
Speaker 7: A few months.

149
00:08:26,959 --> 00:08:29,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sure you saw that big ditch right next

150
00:08:29,079 --> 00:08:29,360
to there.

151
00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:31,639
Speaker 5: Did you dig that ditch or was that there?

152
00:08:31,959 --> 00:08:36,440
Speaker 3: No, that was a burn and that was my plan

153
00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:38,679
was to use that cause it was already dug.

154
00:08:38,799 --> 00:08:40,240
Speaker 5: So I was gonna just have to fill it in.

155
00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,120
Speaker 3: Right. There was a there was a big metal plate

156
00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,000
down the road that I was gonna use to cover

157
00:08:45,039 --> 00:08:46,519
it once I buried it.

158
00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:50,279
Speaker 5: Keep it from getting dug like a sheet metal. Yeah.

159
00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:52,840
Speaker 3: There was down by that other guy's driveway. There was

160
00:08:52,879 --> 00:08:55,279
a big pile of trash in the woods. There was

161
00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:57,600
a piece of metal that I was gonna use to throw.

162
00:08:57,399 --> 00:09:00,759
Speaker 5: Over it and bury it. I tried to move that would.

163
00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:04,039
Speaker 4: Well, it was thin piece of metal, but there was

164
00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:07,080
lots of it was buried and yeah, ship on it

165
00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:12,000
that like some countertops and stuff in therea and so this,

166
00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:15,279
I mean it's still there, but it's that. That was

167
00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,960
this time frame, if I remember right from our interview,

168
00:09:18,039 --> 00:09:18,279
is this.

169
00:09:18,519 --> 00:09:21,679
Speaker 5: Like the May twenty eleven time frame.

170
00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:26,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, prior to just prior to the careers, right and

171
00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:29,840
so and with this thing, I guess I misunderstood when

172
00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:30,960
you were talking about it earlier.

173
00:09:31,159 --> 00:09:32,960
Speaker 3: If you wouldn't mind explain it again, what was the

174
00:09:33,879 --> 00:09:34,480
this was?

175
00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:38,279
Speaker 4: This was this place open, like the gates were open continuously.

176
00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,559
There's no snow when you put.

177
00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:44,679
Speaker 5: This in at the park there, Yeah, because it's May.

178
00:09:44,759 --> 00:09:46,879
Sometimes in early May it was open.

179
00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:47,799
Speaker 3: Yeah.

180
00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:52,600
Speaker 5: Was there snow on the ground, No, No, okay, and

181
00:09:52,679 --> 00:09:53,120
you think it was.

182
00:09:53,159 --> 00:09:57,080
Speaker 3: No, there wasn't much snow that year, but there wasn't

183
00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:00,519
a lot of traffic there. I know I stay for

184
00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:02,399
a couple of nights, but I think there was only

185
00:10:02,879 --> 00:10:04,240
one or two cars that came by.

186
00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,120
Speaker 4: Kay And when you staked it out, have you parked

187
00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:10,200
your vehicle there or perfect somewhere else?

188
00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:12,159
Speaker 8: No?

189
00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:16,360
Speaker 3: I parked a vehicle down the road by the nature center,

190
00:10:16,639 --> 00:10:19,320
and then I rode my bike back down. That's why

191
00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:23,120
all that stuff was stashed there ahead of time, cause

192
00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:25,519
I didn't wanna have my car in the area.

193
00:10:28,039 --> 00:10:30,679
Speaker 5: How and how many days or nights or whatever did

194
00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:32,159
you were?

195
00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:36,639
Speaker 3: You guys up there for two or three nights. I

196
00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,360
didn't stay all night, just til after.

197
00:10:39,159 --> 00:10:43,080
Speaker 4: Dark, and just there wasn't but much traffic there, so

198
00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:44,759
never an opportunity never arose.

199
00:10:48,519 --> 00:10:53,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was only one. There was only one time

200
00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:56,720
that I almost did it, but there was it was

201
00:10:56,759 --> 00:11:00,279
two people, and it would have been a lot of work.

202
00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,679
Speaker 5: I kind of changed my mind on that.

203
00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:07,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was.

204
00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:10,120
Speaker 4: And then during this time frame, this is also the

205
00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,159
time frame you talked about, uh point warns off for

206
00:11:13,799 --> 00:11:14,080
out in.

207
00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:21,679
Speaker 5: That Harry, right, Yeah, right after you're about the silencer. Yeah,

208
00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:23,200
that was.

209
00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:30,080
Speaker 3: I think I went up Togo River after that incident because,

210
00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:37,840
uh cause a lot of police started around ancor D after.

211
00:11:37,759 --> 00:11:40,919
Speaker 4: Dark, so and the and the time out of the

212
00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,600
point warns off. How late was that when that?

213
00:11:43,639 --> 00:11:46,000
Speaker 5: I mean, how was it about eleven o'clock? Was about

214
00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:50,399
eleven o'clock? Yeah? Okay? And you think that was mid help?

215
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,799
Speaker 4: How far before you left for you left on June

216
00:11:53,879 --> 00:11:56,840
third to go to Vermont? How many days or weeks

217
00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:57,960
was that before that?

218
00:11:58,639 --> 00:11:58,720
Speaker 7: Uh?

219
00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:03,320
Speaker 3: It would have been in May some probably mid May?

220
00:12:04,879 --> 00:12:06,080
Speaker 5: And do you know for sure if it was an

221
00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:07,159
APD officer or.

222
00:12:07,159 --> 00:12:11,919
Speaker 3: Was it it was two of them?

223
00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:15,919
Speaker 4: Definitely not airport police.

224
00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:19,559
Speaker 3: No, I'm pretty sure I saw the car. I think

225
00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:22,759
it said it had the big it may it may

226
00:12:22,799 --> 00:12:24,799
have been an airport police if their cars.

227
00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:26,320
Speaker 5: Looked the same, but I don't know. It looked like

228
00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,039
an APN me. Do you remember what kind of car

229
00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,159
was there other than the police car? What car would

230
00:12:31,159 --> 00:12:32,000
you watch it?

231
00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:35,000
Speaker 3: It was a super station wagon? I think what color?

232
00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:39,919
Navy blue or darker?

233
00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:46,960
Speaker 5: Maybe? Yeah? Are any more of these in Anchorage AIA?

234
00:12:52,519 --> 00:12:52,559
Speaker 10: No?

235
00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:54,039
Speaker 3: Okay?

236
00:12:55,879 --> 00:12:58,720
Speaker 5: And maybe not specifically like this? Is there any underground

237
00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,279
I know how sometimes you'd like to be about that.

238
00:13:05,759 --> 00:13:11,240
Questions are not specificate. There's nothing exactly like that. Is

239
00:13:11,279 --> 00:13:18,279
there a five gallon bucket? I might need those again

240
00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:18,720
some day.

241
00:13:21,159 --> 00:13:26,080
Speaker 1: Studio both and is sponsored by Betterhelp. For some, summer

242
00:13:26,279 --> 00:13:30,000
is their favorite season, travel picks up, kids are out

243
00:13:30,039 --> 00:13:34,080
of school, and adventure is in focus. For others, juggling

244
00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:36,720
at all can be tough and can lead to overwhelm

245
00:13:36,879 --> 00:13:39,600
and counting down the minutes until the kids are back

246
00:13:39,639 --> 00:13:43,799
in school, and many worry they're wasting the days of sunshine.

247
00:13:44,159 --> 00:13:47,120
I do this constantly. In fact, as soon as the

248
00:13:47,159 --> 00:13:50,519
first warm day rolls around in June, I start worrying

249
00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:54,159
about winter approaching in three to four months. A lot

250
00:13:54,159 --> 00:13:58,120
of my anxiety is actually around impending possibilities, things that

251
00:13:58,159 --> 00:14:01,159
haven't happened yet or may not happen at all, worrying

252
00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:04,279
about what's to come rather than enjoying what's happening. So

253
00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:07,320
during summer I bring these anxieties to my Better Help

254
00:14:07,399 --> 00:14:11,759
therapist Jane, and I also take pause, stop fretting about

255
00:14:11,759 --> 00:14:14,840
what's around the corner, take a blanket outside, and soak

256
00:14:14,919 --> 00:14:17,720
up as much sun as possible. Therapy can help people

257
00:14:17,799 --> 00:14:21,879
better understand their needs, feel more confident, setting boundaries, and

258
00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,360
create a version of summer that actually feels good. And

259
00:14:25,399 --> 00:14:28,120
Better Help does the initial matching work for you so

260
00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,120
you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire

261
00:14:31,159 --> 00:14:34,840
helps identify your needs and preferences, and their twelve plus

262
00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:38,480
years of experience and industry leading match fulfillment rate means

263
00:14:38,799 --> 00:14:41,480
they typically get it right the first time. They certainly

264
00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:43,519
did with me. If you aren't happy with your match,

265
00:14:43,639 --> 00:14:45,960
you can switch to a different therapist at any time

266
00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,360
from their tailored recommendations. You don't have to say yes

267
00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:53,120
to everything this summer. Find support and therapy. Sign up

268
00:14:53,159 --> 00:14:57,039
and get ten percent off at betterhelp dot com slash tcb.

269
00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:01,279
That's better h e LP dot com slash tcb.

270
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,159
Speaker 5: We just you know, I mean, I know, you don't.

271
00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:06,120
I just don't want somebody else.

272
00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:07,320
Speaker 10: I know.

273
00:15:07,399 --> 00:15:10,639
Speaker 4: In one of our conversations, you made a comment about

274
00:15:10,759 --> 00:15:14,720
how people like buried treasure and somebody somebody might find

275
00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:17,600
one of those some day and think it's their lucky

276
00:15:17,639 --> 00:15:20,519
day and they hit the motherlodes.

277
00:15:20,639 --> 00:15:23,080
Speaker 5: It wouldn't be their lucky day. What's in it?

278
00:15:25,039 --> 00:15:30,399
Speaker 3: Well, different things, but you know, thank money, it's not

279
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:33,759
it's nothing that will get them into trouble. So no

280
00:15:33,919 --> 00:15:34,720
loaded guns.

281
00:15:35,799 --> 00:15:41,039
Speaker 5: No, I don't. I don't bury him loaded. Thanks, I

282
00:15:41,039 --> 00:15:43,559
don't even think. I usually bury him with the magazines loaded.

283
00:15:43,639 --> 00:15:46,320
Speaker 3: I did that once and then the springs were all

284
00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:47,279
screwed up after that.

285
00:15:53,519 --> 00:15:57,039
Speaker 4: We like buried treasures also, we kind of had fun

286
00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,399
with it. So you're looking for something I'll to do

287
00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:02,879
with just kind of off to ask. I mean, it's

288
00:16:02,919 --> 00:16:05,600
not giving up much, but it's something for us to do.

289
00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:09,559
Speaker 8: If you told us that once before. Everybody likes a

290
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:10,360
barry treasure.

291
00:16:12,159 --> 00:16:16,240
Speaker 3: Why I started burying stuff I was a kid.

292
00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,360
Speaker 5: I always used to dream that I'd find buried treasuring.

293
00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:20,080
Speaker 3: Fare Well, if I can't find it, I might as

294
00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:21,120
well create it.

295
00:16:25,159 --> 00:16:27,559
Speaker 8: What about outside of Anchorage?

296
00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,279
Speaker 2: Do you have other juice stuff like this outside of

297
00:16:31,279 --> 00:16:32,759
Anchorage anywhere else in Alaska?

298
00:16:33,159 --> 00:16:40,039
Speaker 5: Oh, give us something to do. You guys have lots here.

299
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:42,720
This week is at more fun.

300
00:16:42,759 --> 00:16:46,200
Speaker 4: Actually, you just want to get out with the in

301
00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,159
the world. The weather's so nice up here. We'd like

302
00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:51,720
to spend time outside. Yeah, it is, and you should

303
00:16:51,759 --> 00:16:52,679
all take a field trip.

304
00:16:54,279 --> 00:17:04,519
Speaker 11: Although the mesquitoes were kind of bad, and.

305
00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:04,799
Speaker 4: I I.

306
00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:08,799
Speaker 5: Stuff like that. I normally don't.

307
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:11,920
Speaker 3: I I only left that stuff there because I was

308
00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:17,839
planning on using eventually. I just I normally don't like

309
00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:21,920
to litter. I didn't really consider that littering, though, cause

310
00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:23,799
I figured i'd be back to bring it.

311
00:17:23,759 --> 00:17:24,359
Speaker 5: Up pretty soon.

312
00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:31,359
Speaker 2: Did you go back to that spot at all after

313
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,359
you put it out there, like between after you left

314
00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:37,200
for the couriers in June to when you got arrested,

315
00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,039
Had you been back there to look at that stuff.

316
00:17:38,839 --> 00:17:40,519
Speaker 5: Or to move it or A yeah, I've been back

317
00:17:40,599 --> 00:17:45,000
up there to make sure it was still there or

318
00:17:45,079 --> 00:17:45,559
to do more.

319
00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:49,519
Speaker 3: Not well, was just looking out checking out the area.

320
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:51,319
I I could tell it was still there just by

321
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:56,240
driving by. Seems like I could see seems like a

322
00:17:56,319 --> 00:17:58,960
schi Yeah, I remember I looked slowed down and looked

323
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:00,640
back in the lids and saw the lad a couple

324
00:18:00,599 --> 00:18:04,759
of times. Oh, I didn't figure it would go anywhere

325
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,759
because it wasn't really close to the road, So.

326
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:16,480
Speaker 5: To stake it out any more times after that?

327
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:19,000
Speaker 10: Uh?

328
00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:21,799
Speaker 3: Not not officially.

329
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,400
Speaker 9: I just uh would hang out up there for an

330
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:25,759
hour or.

331
00:18:25,759 --> 00:18:27,200
Speaker 4: Two here and there, just to see what kind of

332
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:33,119
traffic there was, any any other places around here that

333
00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:34,119
you did that kind of thing.

334
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,400
Speaker 5: I mean the steak out looking at trail heads or.

335
00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:43,599
Speaker 4: Whatever, knocking out to having the equipment there.

336
00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:48,160
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, well there was. I used to go up

337
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:59,960
to a Glutna quite a man. Uh yeah, the high

338
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,559
heads up there. Yeah, the lake and stuff.

339
00:19:09,799 --> 00:19:10,160
Speaker 7: I had.

340
00:19:11,559 --> 00:19:14,640
Speaker 3: I was planning on doing a kayak trip up there eventually.

341
00:19:17,319 --> 00:19:19,720
Speaker 5: Did you have kayaks? Yeah?

342
00:19:19,759 --> 00:19:20,440
Speaker 3: I had a kayak.

343
00:19:20,519 --> 00:19:20,680
Speaker 7: Yeah.

344
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:23,599
Speaker 3: Well, let's Kimberley's kayak.

345
00:19:24,039 --> 00:19:24,160
Speaker 5: Uh.

346
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:35,440
Speaker 3: I would use it quite often. Best thing in the

347
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:40,599
lieu of a motor boat. Actually better than a motor boat,

348
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,319
cause that motor boat, that Bayliner, mind, it broke down

349
00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:44,720
in the middle of the lake. That was a long

350
00:19:44,799 --> 00:19:52,039
paddle to get it back to shore. Packs a lot faster, Yeah.

351
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,359
Speaker 4: Especially if it's windy or you have any type of

352
00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:56,640
weather with that big of a boat.

353
00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

354
00:20:02,599 --> 00:20:06,440
Speaker 5: So, no other buried treasures you'd like to share with us, No,

355
00:20:06,519 --> 00:20:06,920
not yet.

356
00:20:13,279 --> 00:20:14,559
Speaker 3: That one wasn't bury treasure.

357
00:20:14,599 --> 00:20:16,480
Speaker 5: I was just feeling bad about leaving it out there.

358
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:17,839
You just wanted to clean that.

359
00:20:18,039 --> 00:20:20,599
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's an environmental thing.

360
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:27,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, cause that means you don't want to give up

361
00:20:27,279 --> 00:20:29,240
the bucket in Texas.

362
00:20:33,279 --> 00:20:37,160
Speaker 3: No, but if I get close to where it's at

363
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:38,440
which is there's not a.

364
00:20:38,519 --> 00:20:42,279
Speaker 12: Tractioning device on it.

365
00:20:43,599 --> 00:20:43,680
Speaker 10: You.

366
00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:45,839
Speaker 3: Uh, No, I have a pretty good memory.

367
00:20:46,079 --> 00:20:47,119
Speaker 5: I could play it pretty good.

368
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:52,960
Speaker 3: Cash places. I have a good memory when I need to.

369
00:20:55,559 --> 00:20:57,680
Speaker 8: If we came close to where one was, would you

370
00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:58,359
tell us.

371
00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:00,440
Speaker 5: I don't.

372
00:21:00,799 --> 00:21:01,640
Speaker 3: I don't know what you mean.

373
00:21:02,039 --> 00:21:05,200
Speaker 2: Like if we were able to tell you in Airy

374
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,000
area that we're pretty sure there's one.

375
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,400
Speaker 5: In, would you tell us, well, I assume you know.

376
00:21:11,519 --> 00:21:14,599
Speaker 3: I've been kind of all over the place when I

377
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:19,119
do go places. I don't know what you consider it close?

378
00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:24,359
Speaker 5: Like state coun No, no, no, I mean just deducting

379
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:25,240
where things.

380
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:27,079
Speaker 4: Especially just in Texas, cause we have a little more

381
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:30,480
information on specifically where you were at in Texas through

382
00:21:30,559 --> 00:21:33,680
cell phone towers and those kind of things. Like when

383
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:38,880
you left to Dallas to drive to Houston after the

384
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,359
bank in Azelle, you didn't drive forty five straight to Houston,

385
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,599
and you had to do something with that money from

386
00:21:51,079 --> 00:21:55,599
Bazel because when you came back, yeah, had the money

387
00:21:55,599 --> 00:22:01,480
with you, so you picked it up down there. M

388
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:03,640
didn't have it in your suitcase and get all moldy

389
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:04,559
and wet.

390
00:22:05,759 --> 00:22:07,920
Speaker 3: Oh that's that was just the small bills.

391
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:10,359
Speaker 5: So the twenties are still in a bucket place.

392
00:22:11,759 --> 00:22:12,359
Speaker 3: On that route.

393
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:13,799
Speaker 5: Small bills are a nuisance.

394
00:22:16,839 --> 00:22:19,359
Speaker 3: People. Notice when you pull out a huge water small.

395
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,759
Speaker 4: Bills, and you didn't leave it in the Dallas area

396
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:23,759
cause you weren't playing and going back there.

397
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,440
Speaker 5: You knew your mom's gonna be going down to Wells.

398
00:22:28,599 --> 00:22:32,839
Speaker 3: Well the money was moldy because it wasn't really I

399
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:34,359
didn't even know if I was gonna go back to

400
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:34,920
get it.

401
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 5: I just I just buried it and figured it. I

402
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,359
know if I might get back to get it if

403
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:47,000
I don't. There was only a few hundred bucks, I think, so.

404
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 4: So you've only you've only got a bury treasure of

405
00:22:47,759 --> 00:22:49,920
a few hundred bucks that somebody might find there.

406
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:56,279
Speaker 3: What in Texas? No, I'm not. I'm saying the money

407
00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:00,279
it was. It was buried right by the airport because

408
00:23:00,319 --> 00:23:09,400
I didn't want to risk tsa final carry on asking questions.

409
00:23:10,319 --> 00:23:12,920
I don't know it would overly paranoid maybe.

410
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 4: But so then when you flew back down there, you

411
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,279
only took the small bills back out and left.

412
00:23:27,039 --> 00:23:34,400
Speaker 5: The bigger bills. No, the bigger bills. I kept some

413
00:23:34,559 --> 00:23:36,319
brooch from the small ones.

414
00:23:39,279 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 3: The small one, Yeah, they were just they were just.

415
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:43,960
Speaker 5: Wrapped up in a bag. I didn't even really dig

416
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,519
a hole and just stomped the rest.

417
00:23:46,559 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 3: Sup went behind a tree, kicked some dirt out of

418
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,759
the way, dropped the bag in it, kicked some dirt

419
00:23:51,799 --> 00:23:53,119
over it, then.

420
00:23:53,039 --> 00:23:54,880
Speaker 5: Left and it was still there.

421
00:23:55,599 --> 00:24:07,039
Speaker 13: Yeah, nobody wants to pick up trash.

422
00:24:07,079 --> 00:24:09,079
Speaker 2: One of the things that I wanted to go back

423
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:11,200
to was something we were talking about the other day

424
00:24:11,559 --> 00:24:16,599
and just it's not anything specific, really, but you had mentioned.

425
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 8: That, and if my timing at the dates are wrong

426
00:24:20,559 --> 00:24:21,200
in this, let me know.

427
00:24:21,279 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 2: But you had mentioned that when you were in the military,

428
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,519
when you were over in Tel Aviv Uh, you had

429
00:24:26,559 --> 00:24:31,279
gone to a couple prostitutes there, and that was when

430
00:24:31,319 --> 00:24:33,920
you were like in your twenties, probably right early twenties.

431
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:36,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it was about twenty at the time.

432
00:24:37,519 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 8: When did the whole prostitute think come into play for you?

433
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:42,119
Was that it?

434
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:42,799
Speaker 5: Or did Hell?

435
00:24:44,319 --> 00:24:45,279
Speaker 3: Now Montreal?

436
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 8: So Montreal was before the military?

437
00:24:48,039 --> 00:24:50,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, well I I that's the first time I had

438
00:24:50,839 --> 00:24:52,720
gone was before.

439
00:24:52,839 --> 00:24:55,079
Speaker 8: I think, can't you've been to Montreal a couple more

440
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:55,680
than once then?

441
00:24:55,799 --> 00:24:58,519
Speaker 5: Yeah?

442
00:24:58,559 --> 00:25:04,400
Speaker 11: So was.

443
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:07,640
Speaker 5: Jump ahead?

444
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 8: Now Anchorage is is that it's a proces visiting prostitutes.

445
00:25:11,279 --> 00:25:13,680
Speaker 2: Is that something that you've continue to do over the years,

446
00:25:13,759 --> 00:25:27,480
including an anchorage?

447
00:25:36,039 --> 00:25:38,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I've I've done it over the Years'

448
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,000
do you usually it's something I do all the time?

449
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 7: Okay?

450
00:25:44,079 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 2: Is it something that when you Is it something that

451
00:25:46,759 --> 00:25:48,880
you use the internet for? Is it something are you

452
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,279
doing out to the street. I know there's not a

453
00:25:51,319 --> 00:25:53,160
lot of street walkers anymore, at least up here. There

454
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:59,759
are yep.

455
00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,759
Speaker 8: Thanks Listing, back Page and a few others.

456
00:25:59,759 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 2: But is internet the way that you would usually find

457
00:26:03,759 --> 00:26:06,160
them or how would you? No?

458
00:26:07,039 --> 00:26:12,839
Speaker 3: That was I mean, really, I've only used computers for

459
00:26:12,839 --> 00:26:20,000
the last few years. I was always seems like every

460
00:26:20,039 --> 00:26:24,319
time use computers that get busted so by.

461
00:26:26,559 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 5: Somebody who wasn't supposed to see it. So it that

462
00:26:29,039 --> 00:26:32,720
way you didn't figure out how to clear your history?

463
00:26:33,759 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 3: Well I got better at it, but I was still

464
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,079
paranore about it because it seems like the damn thing

465
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:41,079
will always pop up an opportunity.

466
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 5: Could Kimberly ever see that stuff?

467
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 2: Oh?

468
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, she stuff. Yeah, we were together for a long time,

469
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,720
so she saw. I mean my shirt mistakes.

470
00:26:56,279 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 8: Which websites did you use the most? You mentioned Craigslist,

471
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:01,279
it's the most popular, I think.

472
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:09,039
Speaker 5: Yeah, I would use.

473
00:27:13,039 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 3: I would use the internet or phone books to get

474
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:21,079
lists of phone numbers, and I would rate the phone numbers,

475
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:25,640
and then I would just you know, when I got

476
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:27,319
to whatever area that I was going to do, and

477
00:27:27,319 --> 00:27:29,359
then I'd just called down the list of numbers until

478
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:30,640
I got a hit on one.

479
00:27:31,319 --> 00:27:32,079
Speaker 8: How would you rate it?

480
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:32,640
Speaker 5: What was the.

481
00:27:35,039 --> 00:27:42,599
Speaker 3: I would rate it just based on the vibe I

482
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,880
got off of the ad or the description online. And

483
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:50,640
then you know, usually only about twenty five percent of

484
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:51,400
the numbers work.

485
00:27:51,559 --> 00:27:54,119
Speaker 5: So right now you know a lot.

486
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 3: Of different numbers.

487
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,599
Speaker 2: So would you actually call and talk to somebody and

488
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:00,160
see what they had to say and that would be

489
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:01,039
part of the rating too.

490
00:28:01,799 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, yeah, so with.

491
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:13,319
Speaker 8: That in mind, the rating thing, tell.

492
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 5: Me if that's what this say is, did you figured

493
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:22,160
it out? I look familiar? Yeah?

494
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,839
Speaker 8: Is that what that is? The one, two, three rating system?

495
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:27,839
Speaker 2: Cause we know that those are numbers and we know

496
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,119
what those are numbers too. But okay, that makes sense

497
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,079
what you're talking about with a rating system. Then did

498
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:34,200
you call any of these.

499
00:28:35,519 --> 00:28:35,559
Speaker 5: No?

500
00:28:36,279 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 8: I don't think so, cause this was from your trip.

501
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:45,839
Speaker 5: Well it was in the car.

502
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 8: It was in the car, so it was on that

503
00:28:47,599 --> 00:28:48,400
when you're when you were.

504
00:28:49,119 --> 00:28:49,799
Speaker 5: That wasn't a.

505
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,359
Speaker 3: For sure thing. That was just one of those things.

506
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 5: If I had had the opportunity to go up there,

507
00:28:57,039 --> 00:28:57,680
I would have done.

508
00:28:57,759 --> 00:29:00,839
Speaker 3: It's not like I was gonna go for sure. And yeah,

509
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,480
I honestly I probably wasn't going to go because the

510
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,839
whole you know, there was a lot of bullshit going

511
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:09,960
on with my family there at the time, so I

512
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,119
didn't want to. I just wanted to get out of there,

513
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:17,880
and it's kind of wasn't really thinking about any of

514
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:18,400
that stuff.

515
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:23,759
Speaker 4: So you have place Do you have cities or favorite

516
00:29:23,839 --> 00:29:28,519
or places to go that are the prostitution stuff is

517
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:33,200
easier or better or more more of it.

518
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:43,079
Speaker 3: Vegas or anything like that. No, I don't actually like Vegas,

519
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:48,519
but oh I don't know, just tune Gas is very

520
00:29:48,559 --> 00:29:52,440
predictable with more interesting people in other places.

521
00:29:53,799 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 8: You don't seem like a big city person either.

522
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,759
Speaker 3: Only if I have to be in I can get around.

523
00:30:00,839 --> 00:30:06,400
I Yeah, I prefer more discreet locations.

524
00:30:06,519 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 5: But you would visited Montreal a lot when you were

525
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:10,079
in upstate New York?

526
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,799
Speaker 4: Is that just cause it was the closest big city

527
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,640
or yeah.

528
00:30:16,039 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 5: I mean anything special attraction to Montreal or Canada or

529
00:30:21,599 --> 00:30:30,119
oh I I I like Canada's it's predictable.

530
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 3: And but no, I didn't have like a specific hotel

531
00:30:41,599 --> 00:30:43,759
or area I would go to. I would just go

532
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:45,240
to check it out.

533
00:30:46,599 --> 00:30:49,079
Speaker 8: Did you do in calls or outcalls with the girls

534
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,440
or with the prostitutes? Did you go to them? Did

535
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:52,039
they come to you?

536
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 3: I wouldn't do it unless they were willing to come

537
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:55,920
to me.

538
00:30:56,519 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 8: Kay, what would you look for in a person.

539
00:31:01,599 --> 00:31:03,279
Speaker 5: Or what would you be re what would you request?

540
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 3: It would changed all the time.

541
00:31:07,119 --> 00:31:08,799
Speaker 8: Mkay, you didn't have a preference or.

542
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,119
Speaker 3: Uh, I always had a preference, but it would change

543
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:11,920
it every time.

544
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:16,839
Speaker 5: It was a different preference, something like I had what

545
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:18,480
was the preher I was in the mood for at

546
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:18,759
the time.

547
00:31:18,839 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 2: I guess what was the preference? Cause you you talked

548
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:28,039
the other day too that you kind of.

549
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 8: Have a preference.

550
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,519
Speaker 2: But then it doesn't nothing's really a deal breaker. But

551
00:31:31,559 --> 00:31:34,240
if there was a preference or kind of an ideal,

552
00:31:34,279 --> 00:31:37,240
what would it be, Well.

553
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 5: It depends on the scenario.

554
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,319
Speaker 4: I don't know what you mean, the scenario that you're

555
00:31:41,359 --> 00:31:47,119
thinking of at the time. Right then, those changed, it's

556
00:31:47,119 --> 00:31:47,640
what you're saying.

557
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:54,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm not even talking about murders or that

558
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,119
kind of stuff. I'm I was the prostitutes is were

559
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,880
more of what I was getting at. I'm not getting

560
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:02,200
in that the other stuff that we're talking about the

561
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:08,559
other day.

562
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 3: Well, I'm sure you guys found my corn collection. So

563
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:20,519
you know, I have a wide range of tastes and

564
00:32:20,559 --> 00:32:21,599
it just varies.

565
00:32:23,039 --> 00:32:23,839
Speaker 5: That's the way I am.

566
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 3: When I go like a year obsessed with one thing

567
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:28,839
and then completely drop it, and then the next year

568
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:29,599
it's something else.

569
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,359
Speaker 2: And the prostitution thing played that same played along that

570
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:34,839
same thing.

571
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, yeah, I never really took the prostitutes

572
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:47,960
that seriously, because.

573
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:51,119
Speaker 5: I mean I was never.

574
00:32:55,839 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 3: I was. I mean I was only calling them because

575
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,000
they were prostitutes. I wasn't calling them because I was

576
00:33:02,039 --> 00:33:05,160
thinking I was gonna kill one of them.

577
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:06,559
Speaker 8: Did you have any regulars?

578
00:33:07,039 --> 00:33:17,599
Speaker 4: No, did the visiting the prostitute? Did that sometimes working

579
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:19,920
lieu of or delay or.

580
00:33:20,319 --> 00:33:26,279
Speaker 5: Satisfy you at some point in time. So so yeah, that's.

581
00:33:28,559 --> 00:33:31,119
Speaker 3: You know, it's a good outlet, but it's not the same.

582
00:33:31,359 --> 00:33:41,759
It's anonymous, and depending on depending on the prostitute, you

583
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:46,039
can you know, do a lot of different things.

584
00:33:46,119 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 5: So were you?

585
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,519
Speaker 2: Yeah? Were you into more S and M stuff type

586
00:33:55,559 --> 00:34:01,759
with the prostitutes type stuff with the prostitutes? Sometimes not

587
00:34:01,759 --> 00:34:04,079
not necessarily the part of it.

588
00:34:04,279 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, that wasn't honest the agenda. It's just.

589
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 2: Could you ever use ropes and that kind of stuff

590
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,800
with the prostitutes as well or practice any of that

591
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:22,559
stuff with them?

592
00:34:22,599 --> 00:34:23,320
Speaker 5: Not?

593
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 3: Nothing real crazy, but yeah, I mean nothing very elaborate though.

594
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 2: So it wasn't like you had, you know, your rope

595
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:39,519
set up and you would practice on them to make

596
00:34:39,559 --> 00:34:41,159
sure it worked the way you wanted it to work.

597
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,119
Speaker 8: Kind of thing. Not that elaborate.

598
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:47,599
Speaker 4: Okay, you freak a few of them out to sell

599
00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:49,039
that you were talking. You were talking about one the

600
00:34:49,119 --> 00:34:52,960
other day, I and tel Aviv or somewhere that was

601
00:34:53,039 --> 00:34:55,159
mad at you for some Yeah, so.

602
00:34:55,039 --> 00:35:01,679
Speaker 3: It was, Yeah, she was pretty mad.

603
00:35:03,079 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 5: I don't think.

604
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 3: I don't think she was scared.

605
00:35:07,039 --> 00:35:08,960
Speaker 5: I think she was just mad at me kind of thing.

606
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:11,800
Speaker 8: Is she the one that kicked you?

607
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:16,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, took an extra liberties, but she didn't pay for

608
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:25,159
I think she was mostly worried about going over her

609
00:35:25,679 --> 00:35:27,079
a lot of time or whatever.

610
00:35:33,039 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 2: She was.

611
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,800
Speaker 5: She was a pretty small, little Russian girl, and she.

612
00:35:41,199 --> 00:35:43,519
Speaker 3: And I had been drinking, so you know, I kind

613
00:35:43,519 --> 00:35:46,239
of threw around a little that I hadn't heard her hit

614
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:50,880
her or anything, but she I wasn't gonna let her

615
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,880
run the show, I guess. And yeah, so she was

616
00:35:54,880 --> 00:36:00,360
a little bit annoyed, and she didn't speaking so.

617
00:36:02,079 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 8: H, I would make things a little more than you.

618
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 14: Didn't speak Russian? So no, did you see?

619
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:18,199
Speaker 2: I don't know if I asked this before, and I

620
00:36:18,199 --> 00:36:19,519
don't know if I got off topic or if you

621
00:36:19,559 --> 00:36:24,039
just didn't answer. Do you to see any prostitutes in Anchorage? M?

622
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 5: No, don't want to go there?

623
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:58,639
Speaker 15: Yeah, okay, think so okay, 'h go ahead, you.

624
00:36:58,639 --> 00:37:08,119
Speaker 2: Work one of the things that was on your phone.

625
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,840
There's a cemetery in Texas. Did you go to a

626
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:23,880
cemetery in Texas? What was the cemetery about? One of Glenrose?

627
00:37:24,159 --> 00:37:27,800
Does that sound right? Yeah?

628
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 5: I went to a few different cemeteries.

629
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 8: What could you go to the cemetery for?

630
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:37,360
Speaker 5: That's a picture?

631
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 7: What was on your phone?

632
00:37:40,639 --> 00:37:41,039
Speaker 5: That's hut?

633
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:43,639
Speaker 3: Is that on map quest or something that idea?

634
00:37:43,679 --> 00:37:43,840
Speaker 10: Yeah?

635
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:45,599
Speaker 8: I think you took a picture of your computer.

636
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 5: Is what it looks like? You get care of some

637
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:58,960
problem with technology depending on it.

638
00:37:59,039 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 3: What do you think about it?

639
00:38:03,119 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 5: Oh?

640
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 3: No, I that was mostly I was just looking for

641
00:38:08,639 --> 00:38:26,639
different places, convenient locations didn't. Yeah, I I went to

642
00:38:26,679 --> 00:38:28,800
a lot of different places because none of them really

643
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,960
seemed like they worked out. People were very nosy in Texas,

644
00:38:32,039 --> 00:38:36,320
so I wasn't there.

645
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:42,159
Speaker 16: I took me a while to find anywhere. Then I

646
00:38:42,159 --> 00:38:50,480
felt comfortable. Did you find that place?

647
00:38:54,519 --> 00:38:56,519
Speaker 3: Well, I found a few different I didn't. I didn't

648
00:38:56,519 --> 00:38:58,760
take anybody on that trip. If that's what you're asking

649
00:38:58,920 --> 00:38:59,199
I was.

650
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:01,239
Speaker 5: I was that what I was, That's.

651
00:39:01,119 --> 00:39:04,039
Speaker 3: What the thought process was. I didn't do it.

652
00:39:04,119 --> 00:39:09,199
Speaker 4: But why a cemetery a disposal site, cemetery or abduction.

653
00:39:08,679 --> 00:39:17,679
Speaker 3: Site, not an abduction site. It's somewhere to take somebody, Okay.

654
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,280
Speaker 2: So you'd take the cemeteries out, kind of like you

655
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:20,280
talked about staking out some of these other places.

656
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:29,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would go. And a lot of those cemeteries

657
00:39:29,119 --> 00:39:34,199
have a maintenance sheds and stuff that are usually pretty easy.

658
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 5: To get into, so and pretty remote.

659
00:39:37,519 --> 00:39:39,639
Speaker 8: This one's in the middle of nowhere.

660
00:39:40,079 --> 00:39:48,440
Speaker 5: Yeah.

661
00:39:48,559 --> 00:39:50,639
Speaker 4: So is that similar to the thought where you were

662
00:39:50,639 --> 00:39:52,719
saying you were thinking about doing some of this stuff

663
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:56,159
in churches, would it have be the same opposite maybe

664
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,599
doing it in the cemeterys or why just for the

665
00:39:59,679 --> 00:40:02,320
remote subs are specifically because it's a cemetery.

666
00:40:07,079 --> 00:40:20,199
Speaker 5: Well, it was more.

667
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 3: I had more to do with the practicality than any

668
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:28,599
kind of preference on my part.

669
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,039
Speaker 2: So there was no significance to a cemetery like there

670
00:40:35,119 --> 00:40:36,880
was to a church, like you had talked about before.

671
00:40:38,199 --> 00:40:43,519
Speaker 5: Not really, I mean I like cemeteries. I don't know

672
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:45,519
beyond that, it's not really.

673
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:49,840
Speaker 2: No real The churches obviously had to do with the

674
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,119
whole religious peace, but that cemeteries, there was none of

675
00:40:52,159 --> 00:40:52,599
that for you.

676
00:40:52,639 --> 00:40:57,159
Speaker 8: It was just convenience, remoteness. You like 'em. You're that

677
00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:57,639
kind of thing.

678
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, M like 'em. Why you like the cemeteries? Do

679
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:05,360
you think?

680
00:41:07,119 --> 00:41:07,199
Speaker 10: Uh?

681
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't know.

682
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:12,280
Speaker 5: I just always have more abid fascination.

683
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:24,599
Speaker 3: Cemeteries a lot easier to explain your presence there too,

684
00:41:24,639 --> 00:41:26,039
if someone happens to show.

685
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 4: Up, so you'd find a stone of someone to pretend

686
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:31,800
like you were there to visit.

687
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:34,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean.

688
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:38,079
Speaker 3: Easier to explain than something.

689
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,639
Speaker 4: So you're always thinking of that, You're always thinking of

690
00:41:45,679 --> 00:41:49,360
your what you would say if you were for ask

691
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:51,119
about your presence.

692
00:41:52,119 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it doesn't always work, so obviously you have

693
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:03,960
to have a backup plan. But at least you know,

694
00:42:04,079 --> 00:42:10,440
like s like you say, cemetery, it's cemetery, campground, something

695
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:17,400
like that. Public places easier to explain than prior for property.

696
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:21,159
Speaker 5: Did you get questioned a lot?

697
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,079
Speaker 8: It kind of sounds like you were pretty good at

698
00:42:24,079 --> 00:42:27,280
picking places that that wouldn't happen often.

699
00:42:27,679 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 5: No, I got.

700
00:42:31,519 --> 00:42:34,239
Speaker 3: I got questioned casually a few times, not and it

701
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:45,400
really felt like I was by Pete right, Yeah.

702
00:42:43,159 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 4: So did you did you get ever get in a

703
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,800
position where you were start a conversation with someone that

704
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,400
you would had thought about doing something and then they

705
00:42:51,639 --> 00:42:53,159
for whatever reason, you get a vibe from them that

706
00:42:53,159 --> 00:42:55,800
it wouldn't be a good idea or whenever you are

707
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:56,360
you able.

708
00:42:56,199 --> 00:42:59,599
Speaker 17: To make a decision as soon as you see it

709
00:43:00,039 --> 00:43:21,039
to see the person. No, it always has to be

710
00:43:22,639 --> 00:43:24,679
I don't know, as soon as someone talks to me

711
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:26,559
and its use.

712
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:28,800
Speaker 5: To me than that's kind of puts on.

713
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:35,119
Speaker 3: A different spectrum for me. You know, you have to

714
00:43:35,199 --> 00:43:36,480
take somebody by surprise.

715
00:43:39,119 --> 00:43:42,199
Speaker 5: I don't know why, I just it feels like it's

716
00:43:42,199 --> 00:43:43,199
like when I start.

717
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:46,079
Speaker 3: Talking to people, and I go into a different mode,

718
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:52,719
like I want to be their friend or something. But

719
00:43:53,679 --> 00:43:57,280
obviously if I I've already decided to take somebody, then

720
00:43:57,599 --> 00:43:58,440
I'm not their friend.

721
00:43:58,559 --> 00:44:01,760
Speaker 5: It's but you don't give them that chance either.

722
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 4: It sound like they have a casual conversation and then

723
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:05,519
overtake him or something.

724
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 5: Do you do that so that there isn't anything personal.

725
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:25,639
Speaker 3: Up proud, I don't know. I hadn't really thought about it.

726
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:26,239
It's just.

727
00:44:29,199 --> 00:44:30,280
Speaker 5: I think we already talked about this.

728
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 4: But even though you were never questioned by law enforcement

729
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:34,599
about why you were ever at any of these places

730
00:44:34,639 --> 00:44:35,039
or anything.

731
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 3: Well, like I said, casually by law enforcement, Yeah.

732
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:43,239
Speaker 4: Like they would see you at a trailhead and just

733
00:44:43,679 --> 00:44:46,559
right small talk with you, right, Yeah, when you hear

734
00:44:46,599 --> 00:44:48,519
to fish or you hear to eye, those kinds of things,

735
00:44:48,639 --> 00:44:49,880
right when you see.

736
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 5: Your fishing license, right, And I usually had everything.

737
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:57,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I always said all that stuff. I honestly a

738
00:44:57,800 --> 00:44:58,360
lot of times.

739
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:09,199
Speaker 5: That's what I wasn't like, Yeah, first.

740
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:12,840
Speaker 3: Far back, because.

741
00:45:14,159 --> 00:45:17,119
Speaker 5: I can remember, you know, that's where.

742
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 3: I get a lot of the ideas, either fishing or

743
00:45:20,039 --> 00:45:26,039
out hunting and thinking of them, Yeah, stalk them through

744
00:45:26,079 --> 00:45:29,880
the woods and see somebody in the woods they don't

745
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:33,920
see you can sit there and watch them for a while.

746
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,360
I can remember doing that sometimes I was like thirteen

747
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:44,199
or fourteen years old, thinking you could.

748
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:47,639
Speaker 4: Just or just the fact that you're able to watch

749
00:45:47,679 --> 00:45:49,400
them and they don't know you're watching them.

750
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 3: Right, and then yeah, I don't know, I just that's

751
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:02,639
always that was always the most comfortable scenario for me,

752
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:12,599
because it's win win situation. They're out hunting or fishing,

753
00:46:12,639 --> 00:46:15,639
and if the opportunity comes up, then take it.

754
00:46:15,679 --> 00:46:21,480
Speaker 5: If it doesn't, it's not like it's you're out anything.

755
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:44,159
Speaker 8: You've talked before about you read a lot, and that's

756
00:46:44,159 --> 00:46:44,800
where you've gotten.

757
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:47,360
Speaker 2: You've read about a lot of other serial killers and

758
00:46:47,519 --> 00:46:50,519
reading about other crimes and that kind of stuff.

759
00:46:52,039 --> 00:46:54,639
Speaker 8: Might be a weird question. But who's your favorite?

760
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:58,840
Speaker 2: We've talked about it, so we're kind of curious, and

761
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,079
we're curious in who you're going who your favorite is?

762
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 3: One of my favorite ones haven't been caught yet, so

763
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:08,880
I guess.

764
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,559
Speaker 2: That's actually that's actually a good response.

765
00:47:14,599 --> 00:47:16,519
Speaker 8: Okay, of the ones who have been caught that you've

766
00:47:16,559 --> 00:47:23,119
been able to read about, we'll see who who was right?

767
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:24,480
Who was closest for us.

768
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 3: I don't know. I I favorite, I don't really feel like.

769
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:39,159
Speaker 5: I didn't.

770
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:41,880
Speaker 3: I don't if what I've read about him is accurate,

771
00:47:42,119 --> 00:47:45,920
I don't feel that close to any of them. So

772
00:47:46,039 --> 00:47:49,000
I guess I identify most or my favorite, if you

773
00:47:49,039 --> 00:47:50,840
have to put it that way, would be the ones

774
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:52,079
that I identify most with.

775
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:53,840
Speaker 8: That's a fair way to say it.

776
00:47:54,559 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 5: I don't know.

777
00:47:55,079 --> 00:48:02,280
Speaker 3: Maybe just going off of what I've read Ted Bundy,

778
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:09,599
maybe I don't know because I don't I don't have

779
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:15,119
a lot of respect for someone because because of the

780
00:48:15,119 --> 00:48:17,960
way they lived. I guess I don't know.

781
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:20,800
Speaker 4: Did you like reading about all of them? But yeah,

782
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:24,480
when you start reading about them, when did you realize?

783
00:48:26,079 --> 00:48:27,840
I mean, did you start reading about them because you

784
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:30,519
were curious about you?

785
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:33,559
Speaker 5: Or did you was it a study guide to sort

786
00:48:33,599 --> 00:48:35,440
of speak? I mean that might be a weird question too.

787
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,119
Did you learn things from to do not Do?

788
00:48:38,639 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 4: Or was it just curiosity of do you have anything

789
00:48:42,039 --> 00:48:42,719
in common with them?

790
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:44,679
Speaker 5: Is that you were looking for? If you think, well,

791
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:47,239
the first book I read was.

792
00:48:49,079 --> 00:48:51,000
Speaker 3: I think it was called mind Hunter and it was

793
00:48:51,039 --> 00:48:58,440
written by an FBI profilers, right, YEA? I read that

794
00:48:58,519 --> 00:49:02,199
years and years ago, probably when I was fifteen or sixteen,

795
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:17,960
and I was, yes, somewhat disturbed by it, just because

796
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:23,599
I don't know, it's always been that way. It's always

797
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:27,800
felt like I was kind of reading about myself in

798
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:32,320
a lot of those books. Not that not that myself

799
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:35,320
that everybody knew. But you know, what did that?

800
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:36,679
Speaker 5: I mean, did that.

801
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 3: Worry you? Concern you make you think it was? Well?

802
00:49:42,519 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 5: At first, it was, like I said, at first, I

803
00:49:46,519 --> 00:49:48,119
was pretty.

804
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:48,760
Speaker 3: Conflicted about it.

805
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:51,679
Speaker 5: And that was all just because of.

806
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 3: The way I had been raised and stuff, you know,

807
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,800
and you know, I I grew up with good people.

808
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:04,880
I was never you know, everybody's always nice to each

809
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:11,119
other and everything's all sunshine and roses, and so that's

810
00:50:11,119 --> 00:50:13,239
why it was disturbing to me, because it seemed like

811
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:15,280
for a long time I.

812
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:15,559
Speaker 10: Was the.

813
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:20,840
Speaker 3: I either thought everybody was everybody else was faking it

814
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:24,280
and everybody was like me, they just didn't act like it,

815
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:36,079
or I figured that I was demon child or whatever.

816
00:50:36,159 --> 00:50:38,840
I don't know, but I mean, all that went away

817
00:50:39,079 --> 00:50:41,159
when I was in my twenties. I didn't feel bad

818
00:50:41,199 --> 00:50:42,039
about it anymore.

819
00:50:42,039 --> 00:50:44,159
Speaker 5: I just you didn't feel bad that you were that

820
00:50:44,519 --> 00:50:47,679
you've had those thoughts. I knew that most people didn't

821
00:50:47,679 --> 00:50:48,480
think the way I did.

822
00:50:48,519 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 3: By then, I just didn't feel bad about thinking differently at.

823
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:56,679
Speaker 8: That time, just kind of accepted that that's who you.

824
00:50:56,639 --> 00:50:57,559
Speaker 5: Were, and that's yeah.

825
00:50:57,599 --> 00:50:58,079
Speaker 3: I just.

826
00:51:07,559 --> 00:51:10,119
Speaker 4: You know, so d So you said, Ted Bundy, you

827
00:51:10,199 --> 00:51:13,199
kind of felt like maybe you had some things in

828
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:15,519
you know, or at least in common with or some

829
00:51:15,639 --> 00:51:19,400
do you know stuff about him do you you study?

830
00:51:19,559 --> 00:51:23,079
Speaker 3: I know that he had a lot of uh he

831
00:51:23,199 --> 00:51:27,559
was very uh sexually motivated in the stuff that he did.

832
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:32,639
And I know that in the last few years he

833
00:51:32,679 --> 00:51:37,320
had a really hard time controlling himself and separa separating

834
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:41,280
his two lives, if you wanna call it that, and

835
00:51:41,519 --> 00:51:47,159
uh and I also identified with him because.

836
00:51:50,159 --> 00:51:58,760
Speaker 12: It seemed like, uh, he could s he was able

837
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:00,719
to separate different.

838
00:52:02,159 --> 00:52:08,320
Speaker 3: Two different aspects or whatever you want to call this personality.

839
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:11,440
I don't know.

840
00:52:14,519 --> 00:52:16,599
Speaker 8: Anything specific about his crimes.

841
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:34,039
Speaker 18: No, honestly, I am all right, Like.

842
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:36,960
Speaker 3: I said, I never really from what I've read, you may,

843
00:52:37,039 --> 00:52:43,079
I never felt that close to any of them, and

844
00:52:43,119 --> 00:52:49,239
I just saw similarities in all of them.

845
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 5: I've honestly, I've always kind of.

846
00:52:55,440 --> 00:53:02,239
Speaker 3: Thought of myself as more like the bank robber type,

847
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:08,239
except for you know, every once in a while I

848
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:12,840
do it because I can get the same adrenaline rush

849
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:16,440
off of that kind of thing. Or not even a crobbery,

850
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:25,280
you know, anything even like burglary and artisen.

851
00:53:25,079 --> 00:53:40,119
Speaker 10: To a certain extent, So safe to say probably then

852
00:53:40,159 --> 00:53:41,800
you've done more of those kind of crimes.

853
00:53:44,559 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 8: Well yeah, I mean, is that is that a safe

854
00:53:49,039 --> 00:53:50,480
assumption because.

855
00:53:50,199 --> 00:53:56,199
Speaker 3: A practical crimes too? So, because lots of people do

856
00:53:56,320 --> 00:54:00,400
those are practical because it's pretty easy to make money

857
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:00,760
doing it.

858
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:09,880
Speaker 2: Did you ever get close to being caught doing any

859
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:12,039
of those any arsens or anything.

860
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:17,079
Speaker 8: Which was arsenal or bank robbery or bankrover.

861
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:19,800
Speaker 5: I think I got pretty close to them.

862
00:54:21,039 --> 00:54:29,679
Speaker 3: It makes you think that actually it was. It was

863
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:33,000
that one that that you guys know about now, that

864
00:54:33,039 --> 00:54:39,639
one in New York Temper Lake. Yeah, there was. I

865
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:44,320
was leaving and there was a car that passed me,

866
00:54:45,079 --> 00:54:47,239
and I knew it was a detective or somebody because

867
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:47,719
they had a.

868
00:54:49,679 --> 00:54:51,320
Speaker 5: They had a visor light.

869
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:55,519
Speaker 3: Or something on some kind of light. I knew it

870
00:54:55,559 --> 00:54:59,280
was a cop of some kind anyway, and it wasn't

871
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:03,239
like a official patrol car. But I think I think

872
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:07,480
there were a couple of people in it, and it

873
00:55:07,599 --> 00:55:10,159
was windy roads going through the mountains and stuff, and

874
00:55:10,360 --> 00:55:12,800
kind of on a hunch I was I was thinking, well,

875
00:55:14,079 --> 00:55:16,360
because this was quite a while after the robbery, I

876
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:17,840
was quite a waste from the scene.

877
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:20,119
Speaker 5: I was thinking, well, just just in case they.

878
00:55:22,639 --> 00:55:25,280
Speaker 3: Cause they have a vehicle description or something, I better

879
00:55:25,320 --> 00:55:27,239
pull off the road. And there was a campground, and

880
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:30,920
I pulled off really quick and kind of kind of

881
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:34,840
backed into some trees and just sat there for a

882
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:37,559
while and was counting money. And I think I saw

883
00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:40,639
the same car go back the other way, like it

884
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:44,559
might have been looking for me. So I don't know

885
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:46,400
if they I don't even know if it was the

886
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:48,760
same car. It went by really fast, but it looked

887
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:49,519
like it could have been the.

888
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:51,440
Speaker 5: Same Cary fast like it was trying to catch up

889
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:51,599
to you.

890
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:59,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know for sure if they were, but

891
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:04,360
all the same, I think I sat there for quite

892
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:08,079
a while, sat there for several hours, and figured by

893
00:56:08,159 --> 00:56:10,320
then everybody who was gonna be at the scene was

894
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:12,840
gonna be there, Like I remember reading about it a

895
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:16,280
few days later. They that one really freaked him out

896
00:56:16,360 --> 00:56:18,159
cause it was such a small town and they like

897
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:24,079
locked all the schools and everything, SWAT teams patrolling the

898
00:56:24,119 --> 00:56:28,119
such streets or whatever. But I, yeah, that was I

899
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:30,039
was thinking at the time. I was like, I'm just

900
00:56:30,039 --> 00:56:32,920
gonna hang out with this campground count money and stuff.

901
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:40,800
And he stops files act like I'm fishing And could

902
00:56:40,840 --> 00:56:43,280
you have fishing with full? I think I did on

903
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:45,679
that trip. I don't think I had a license though,

904
00:56:46,599 --> 00:56:50,159
not for you did take that that though? Yeah?

905
00:56:50,159 --> 00:56:50,679
Speaker 5: Probably?

906
00:56:54,000 --> 00:57:00,679
Speaker 19: But what do you think you were able to and uh,

907
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:03,159
and talking about the practical crimes, why do you think

908
00:57:03,159 --> 00:57:05,920
you were able to get away with so successfully that

909
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:08,440
it sounds like you did a lot of bank robberies

910
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:09,960
and burglaries.

911
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 3: And those kind of things. Oh, my days were numbered.

912
00:57:17,559 --> 00:57:22,280
It's too many freaking video cameras new nays so so

913
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:26,559
time's changed. Yeah, it was easy when all you had

914
00:57:26,559 --> 00:57:31,079
to worry about was fingerprints and witnesses and DNA. That

915
00:57:31,079 --> 00:57:33,719
stuff's an't pretty easy cause you also.

916
00:57:33,599 --> 00:57:36,159
Speaker 4: Had depending on uh, what you take, Like if you

917
00:57:36,199 --> 00:57:38,840
commit a burglary, you still have to if it's if

918
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:40,880
it's something, if it's not monitored, if it's not money, you.

919
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:43,199
Speaker 5: Have to sell it or get rid of it or those.

920
00:57:43,119 --> 00:57:46,159
Speaker 4: Kind of things, because you what did you when you

921
00:57:46,159 --> 00:57:47,480
were doing burglaries those kind of things?

922
00:57:47,519 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 5: Did you take them houses? Well, besides people.

923
00:57:58,239 --> 00:58:03,719
Speaker 3: For the most part, I am it's not like I

924
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:04,960
needed the money.

925
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 2: So what was the motivation then for the burglaries if

926
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:13,480
it wasn't oh, just.

927
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 3: For old time's sake?

928
00:58:15,519 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 5: Well, you said you get the same thing.

929
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:19,519
Speaker 4: They s they seem so different, but you describe it

930
00:58:19,559 --> 00:58:24,159
as kind of the same. The killings to robberies burglaries

931
00:58:24,239 --> 00:58:26,400
arsens to some degree. I mean, they they s they

932
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:29,280
seem so different and far apart, but you seem to

933
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:29,559
get some.

934
00:58:30,679 --> 00:58:33,280
Speaker 3: But that's because when I go in to do a burglary,

935
00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:36,840
I don't go in to do it like most people do.

936
00:58:37,079 --> 00:58:43,840
Speaker 5: I I go.

937
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:46,760
Speaker 3: In loaded for bear and so to speak, and hoping

938
00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:51,519
there's gonna be people there. No, not necessarily, just just

939
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:55,159
knowing that if something happens, it's you know, it's like

940
00:58:56,760 --> 00:58:58,679
if I ever got caught in the act doing anything,

941
00:58:58,719 --> 00:59:03,199
it's I'm not gonna go meekly away in handcuffs or whatever.

942
00:59:03,639 --> 00:59:03,960
Speaker 10: You know.

943
00:59:04,559 --> 00:59:08,239
Speaker 3: I always went ready for whatever.

944
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:08,840
Speaker 5: I just.

945
00:59:14,679 --> 00:59:18,039
Speaker 8: So, what would your motivation be going in, what would

946
00:59:18,079 --> 00:59:18,800
you be looking for?

947
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:19,400
Speaker 5: What would you.

948
00:59:23,719 --> 00:59:31,199
Speaker 20: Uh burglaries, I usually just jewelry and guns small guns,

949
00:59:31,239 --> 00:59:34,079
smallish so.

950
00:59:34,079 --> 00:59:35,519
Speaker 5: Some of that are some of the guns that you

951
00:59:35,599 --> 00:59:38,679
still have in places? Those guns? Or did you always

952
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:45,480
get rid of those mm?

953
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 3: No, I didn't get rid of them because I was

954
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:52,079
worried about them getting uh tracked.

955
00:59:55,559 --> 00:59:57,480
Speaker 5: So so you keep them, but you don't keep them

956
00:59:57,519 --> 00:59:59,280
with you so that you're not caught with them.

957
00:59:59,079 --> 01:00:02,960
Speaker 3: So you right, haven't been cash somewhere, and then use

958
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:05,199
them when you got you to limitations like five or

959
01:00:05,239 --> 01:00:05,960
seven years or.

960
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:09,679
Speaker 5: Something like that. I don't even know, so you wait,

961
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:13,440
I can't tell whether that's supposed to be a joke.

962
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:15,559
You can you get charged with that, or whether.

963
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:19,440
Speaker 4: So you hide them from the statue of limitations period

964
01:00:19,719 --> 01:00:20,480
before you use that.

965
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:29,039
Speaker 3: Thinks it a lot less likely that they get tracked.

966
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:45,199
Speaker 8: Was part of the burglary? Similar to similar but different to.

967
01:00:45,199 --> 01:00:46,800
Speaker 2: What you talked about with the wood where you're sitting

968
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:48,159
there and you can watch people and they don't know

969
01:00:48,199 --> 01:00:50,079
you're watching them. Is it similar in the burglary because

970
01:00:50,079 --> 01:00:52,039
when you're in somebody's house you're going through their stuff.

971
01:00:52,519 --> 01:00:54,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, that same?

972
01:00:57,039 --> 01:00:59,159
Speaker 4: So would it be would you would you try to

973
01:00:59,159 --> 01:01:01,000
do it to where they would didn't even know what happened,

974
01:01:01,079 --> 01:01:03,920
or make sure they knew it happened, like I mean

975
01:01:04,039 --> 01:01:06,719
breaking windows and breaking doors to go in or get

976
01:01:06,719 --> 01:01:07,239
out somehow.

977
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:15,159
Speaker 3: And no, it would depend. It would depend on situation.

978
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:18,079
I guess more often than not there was usually a

979
01:01:18,079 --> 01:01:24,000
lot of destruction, but sometimes I wouldn't. Sometimes it would

980
01:01:24,039 --> 01:01:30,320
just you know, sometimes I wouldn't take anything at all, necessarily,

981
01:01:32,199 --> 01:01:35,199
maybe a few little things.

982
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:38,719
Speaker 4: So destruction like damage rather than destruction like looking for

983
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:41,320
So because a lot of burgins you go into, all

984
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:43,679
the doors are open, all those clothes are on the ground,

985
01:01:44,119 --> 01:01:50,400
everything's been destroyed looking because I never did that, so

986
01:01:50,719 --> 01:01:51,840
destroyed to destroy.

987
01:01:53,559 --> 01:01:58,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, you'd like to watch people.

988
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:01,719
Speaker 2: Did you ever wait in a house to watch people

989
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:04,920
or wait and watch people come back to see what

990
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:05,960
the reaction would be.

991
01:02:09,119 --> 01:02:12,880
Speaker 3: I would wait in the woods sometimes that was years.

992
01:02:12,639 --> 01:02:16,119
Speaker 2: And years ago now, not wait in the house to

993
01:02:16,199 --> 01:02:17,280
watch for him to come back.

994
01:02:20,679 --> 01:02:27,719
Speaker 3: Not no, not burglaries, No, that's.

995
01:02:27,599 --> 01:02:28,920
Speaker 8: Getting onto other crimes.

996
01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:35,239
Speaker 2: I'm guessing by that reaction, that's yeah,