Speaker 1: Hi.
Speaker 2: My name is Tom Welling.
Speaker 1: I played Clark Kent on Smallville and you are listening
Speaker 1: to Always hold on to Smallville.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Always hold on to Smallville and this podcast
Speaker 2: we talk about each and every episode with a Young
Speaker 2: Superman show that ran from two thousand and one to
Speaker 2: two thousand e on the WB and the c W.
Speaker 2: I'm your hose Zach Moore, and I'm joined by webmaster
Speaker 2: of krypton site and kse At TV, an author of
Speaker 2: several small Villa the Official Companions available wherever books are sold,
Speaker 2: Craig Burn.
Speaker 1: What's up, Craig, Hey, good to be here again. I'm
Speaker 1: so excited to talk about one of my favorite episodes
Speaker 1: of the whole series.
Speaker 2: Favorite episodes of the whole series, one of them high praise,
Speaker 2: high praise. Now you know, Craig, I went to go
Speaker 2: to my shelf to pull off my small Ville Official
Speaker 2: Companion season ten. I couldn't find it.
Speaker 1: That's very unfortunate. Uh, tweet at Titan Books or X
Speaker 1: whatever you call it now and tell them that you
Speaker 1: want more companion guides by me hopefully, because that's.
Speaker 2: Absolutely no I gotta say. You know that the trivia
Speaker 2: has dried up. As far as A nine and ten
Speaker 2: has gone, it was such a no pun intended. They
Speaker 2: were such a constant companion truly through my whole podcast.
Speaker 1: Well, it's also unfortunate because there's some stories that now
Speaker 1: will never be told on the record, you know, because
Speaker 1: we never got to finish those books. Like I remember
Speaker 1: I once I once asked some of the small Bull writers.
Speaker 1: I think it was like after Doomsday. I was like, so,
Speaker 1: why was Jimmy so poor? He was selling drugs or something,
Speaker 1: and then the next week he could afford Watchtower for
Speaker 1: Chloe and there was like a whole convoluted backstory I
Speaker 1: was told for how he did it, And it's like,
Speaker 1: why do we not have that on the right.
Speaker 2: Oh, so they actually thought it through, something about his.
Speaker 1: Father being this like major thief or something. Wow.
Speaker 2: Okayay, krudos to them for at least thinking that through.
Speaker 1: But yeah, or I also asked which season was it
Speaker 1: where we ended the season with the fortress shut off?
Speaker 2: Oh? That was that was season eight?
Speaker 1: Okay, because I think it was season nine.
Speaker 2: It was working again, he's just talking to Jarrel training that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: At the season nine premiere party, I asked one of
Speaker 1: the writers about that and they're, uh, he plugged it
Speaker 1: in there, you go. So you know, those stories would
Speaker 1: be fun to have out there.
Speaker 2: Because I feel like, you know, obviously you interviewed a
Speaker 2: lot of people, got a lot of quotes, couldn't put
Speaker 2: everything in there, but I think most of the stuff
Speaker 2: in there that even did make the cut was very
Speaker 2: honest and very kind of well humored. And you know,
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed all those quotes and insight from everybody
Speaker 2: over the course of those books. And yeah, it would
Speaker 2: absolutely be great to have an eight nine ten or
Speaker 2: even just a eight nine in ten together or you
Speaker 2: know some.
Speaker 1: I've all believe me, Like I've actually pitched the idea
Speaker 1: of doing eight nine and ten in one volume, And
Speaker 1: it would be fun for me because, like when I'm
Speaker 1: watching these episodes, like for your podcast or just for
Speaker 1: my own fun, there's stuff I completely forgot, even if
Speaker 1: it's like a major plot point. Like I watched the
Speaker 1: episode where Martha and Perry come back. Somehow I forgot
Speaker 1: about the Red Queen. Yeah, I don't know how I
Speaker 1: forgot about the Red Queen, but I'm watching him like,
Speaker 1: oh okay.
Speaker 2: I feel like I feel like the show forgot about
Speaker 2: the Red Queen and season ten. Get we'll get there, okay,
Speaker 2: I remember obviously, I have fun memories of Martha kent
Speaker 2: reappearing on the series, and I thank goodness and Neto
Speaker 2: Tool came back several episodes of season ten fantastic. But
Speaker 2: I don't know how they're like, hey, you're still the
Speaker 2: Red Queen. I don't know if that ever came up again.
Speaker 2: As much as I love season nine, but.
Speaker 1: You know, watching you know, a couple of weeks ago
Speaker 1: before even doing this, I watched like Salvation and then
Speaker 1: Lastirus and it's just such a good string of episodes.
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, wait to see what happens next, and
Speaker 1: just knowing it's the final season and that you know
Speaker 1: they're gonna hopefully try to put their ducks where they
Speaker 1: need to go. It's just fun. It's a fun moment.
Speaker 1: It was a fun moment to be a fan of
Speaker 1: the show.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, going into it knowing it is the
Speaker 2: final season, right, It's all been discussed, like you know,
Speaker 2: season season nine, Craig, they always knew they were beginning
Speaker 2: of season ten, correct.
Speaker 1: They I think they knew, but they didn't announce it
Speaker 1: because I remember the Comic Con before season nine, I
Speaker 1: think Brian and Kelly have to onions you guys want
Speaker 1: season ten too, and everyone's like yeah, but yeah, I
Speaker 1: had no idea personally. And then I feel like the
Speaker 1: season ten being the final season thing came out from Tom,
Speaker 1: like the night before upfront gotcha, like somebody saw him
Speaker 1: in an event and the announcement came. But you know,
Speaker 1: even during that final season, I remember Michael Ausiello at
Speaker 1: tv Line frequently right about a show that was announced
Speaker 1: as canceled might be continuing after all, And I know
Speaker 1: so many Smallville fans thought that's what he was talking about.
Speaker 1: It was actually like major crimes or something like that.
Speaker 1: But I do remember that being a thought at the time, like, well,
Speaker 1: maybe it's not the.
Speaker 2: Yeah season eleven, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But I mean I think we all knew Tom was,
Speaker 1: you know done. Yeah, we don't play.
Speaker 2: It's a nice round number ten. Yeah right, I'm like sure, great?
Speaker 2: And season nine. I love season nine. It's one of
Speaker 2: my top seasons. I was like high on season ten.
Speaker 2: They've rebounded from the what I thought was a tail
Speaker 2: spin and a terrible crash at the end of season eight,
Speaker 2: and they rebounded in a great way and Oliver a
Speaker 2: great season and then you knowing that, hey, they know
Speaker 2: it's going to be the end because I think, you know,
Speaker 2: we can all agree here Smallville, especially in those middle years,
Speaker 2: it was like two steps forward like five steps back.
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, we got new Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, oh, you know, we're killing Jonathan Ken
Speaker 1: because we're gonna be done at the end of the
Speaker 1: season up and picked up again, or we're gonna kill
Speaker 1: Lion all up, we got three more years. What Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's sort of thing.
Speaker 2: But this time they knew they like had an endpoint.
Speaker 2: They like, like you said, they were trying to get
Speaker 2: all their ducks in a row, which is a lot
Speaker 2: of what this episode does. Move some pieces around, references
Speaker 2: some characters that we haven't seen a while, or come
Speaker 2: back in a big way. It's gonna be a lot
Speaker 2: of fun. But I'll say this, I felt like meant
Speaker 2: Salvation the season nine finale might be my favorite episode
Speaker 2: of the show.
Speaker 1: Which, oh, it's fantastic.
Speaker 2: I mean, didn't it could have been a series finale
Speaker 2: with some tweaks, right, Craig.
Speaker 1: Yes, well, I mean Greg Beeman came back for it.
Speaker 1: I think it was his first episode after season five
Speaker 1: he was director for. He also thoroughly spoiled it on
Speaker 1: his blog, like the day before I think getting confused
Speaker 1: as to which day of the show aired just kind
Speaker 1: of funny, kind of But I think the only thing
Speaker 1: that were one of the things that really did not
Speaker 1: work with season ten, unfortunately, is that they didn't know
Speaker 1: for sure if they had Michael or not.
Speaker 2: That's a huge, huge.
Speaker 1: So like, I feel like they were trying to tell
Speaker 1: one story where maybe and I know, we're going to
Speaker 1: get into the Alexander of it all. Yeah, but I
Speaker 1: feel like they were The story they were telling was
Speaker 1: that Alexander was going to grow up to be the
Speaker 1: likes we know and love. But then then it seemed like,
Speaker 1: I guess they thought they weren't getting Michael, so then
Speaker 1: they did Connor Kent spoiler everybody if you haven't seen
Speaker 1: this episode.
Speaker 2: And which it went pretty They really looked into that Craig.
Speaker 2: They were like, well, in the comics, he's have Clark
Speaker 2: k flex, let's just do this, And I thought, you
Speaker 2: know what, that's a great trapdoor for that character to
Speaker 2: explain away.
Speaker 1: And that was Sion's one of my favorite episodes of
Speaker 1: the final season two, So but still it's like if
Speaker 1: they had known whether or not they and Michael. I mean,
Speaker 1: like even with this episode, which I'm sure we're going
Speaker 1: to get into, and maybe I shouldn't jump ahead of
Speaker 1: myself too much, but I feel like there are some
Speaker 1: things that were clearly written thinking, oh, Michael's coming back, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, nope, not yet. So going into this season
Speaker 2: that I remember I didn't go Did you go to
Speaker 2: Santagokoma for the season ten panel?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, were you there when they should? Obviously? What
Speaker 2: you were there? You were there. They showed that incredible trailer.
Speaker 1: And Lionel was in it.
Speaker 2: I remember that brainiac right, all this stuff, right, I
Speaker 2: just I mean I saw it as as we all
Speaker 2: who didn't get to go there in a tent and
Speaker 2: be in that room because this is before they like
Speaker 2: put everything on the internet because's twenty ten, right, right,
Speaker 2: some like sideways low quality cell phone of this amazing
Speaker 2: trailer and it's like everything goes through all ten seasons,
Speaker 2: little little snippets, I end the villain of the story.
Speaker 2: Everybody cheers, right, all that stuff, right, and it was
Speaker 2: it was amazing, and I was like, oh, I can't
Speaker 2: wait to like get the DVD and this will be
Speaker 2: on there. It's it's not on there. Just watch that
Speaker 2: low quality cell phone footage crag.
Speaker 1: But now like every Comic Con trailer ends up online.
Speaker 2: It feels like, right like Aero season two and run Out,
Speaker 2: et cetera.
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, I mean, with a few exceptions, like there
Speaker 1: was at Comic Con. Maybe it was before Endgame, Marvel
Speaker 1: did a little like recap of all the Marvel movies
Speaker 1: so far, as narrated by Louise from Hall, and it
Speaker 1: was so good. They didn't have any incredible Hult clips
Speaker 1: because they didn't have the right so he's just like, oh,
Speaker 1: we're gonna skip that one, you know, but it was amazing.
Speaker 1: And of course that has also not.
Speaker 2: That seemed like such a slam dunk from to put
Speaker 2: on a streaming service. But right know, that's that's that's
Speaker 2: the era of the comic books. We wererad back then
Speaker 2: when stuff was not just like you said, immediately put online.
Speaker 2: That was such an amazing trailer then and now the
Speaker 2: final season of Smallville.
Speaker 1: Also like I mean, I'd have to go to the
Speaker 1: crypton side archives to see, but I feel like there
Speaker 1: were times we didn't even get like a season trailer
Speaker 1: until like two weeks before the season became, which is
Speaker 1: kind of it's crazy. Yeah, yeah, it's like I guess
Speaker 1: they waited until they had a good amount of footage.
Speaker 2: But yeah, fair enough.
Speaker 1: I because, yeah, I remember one season specific where that
Speaker 1: was like the number one question that everyone's asking us,
Speaker 1: like when we're getting a trailer, and it's like, no, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know. So anyway, there you go.
Speaker 2: We we were here, we're at the this is the
Speaker 2: last season premiere. We're gonna cover on this podcast. Wow,
Speaker 2: all right, it's getting real, Craig.
Speaker 1: What about are you gonna do the season eleven comic?
Speaker 2: Well? Yeah, does that count?
Speaker 1: I mean it's Guardian. You should get Brian ky Miller
Speaker 1: on here.
Speaker 2: Oh, we're gonna we're gonna cover the comic books. We're
Speaker 2: gonna cover the books. I've been reading the Small bl
Speaker 2: One novel die. You ever read these Small Lill novels.
Speaker 1: Craig At the time, I don't remember them, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I kind of like, uh, there's one series that was
Speaker 1: a little more young adult, and then there was another
Speaker 1: series that was a little more serious.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think rock Stern even wrote one of them.
Speaker 2: Roger Stern wrote the first one. Alan Grant wrote the
Speaker 2: second one. There they got some comic writers in there,
Speaker 2: but yeah, they had they had a young adults which
Speaker 2: is funny because like this is small Ville, it's all
Speaker 2: sort of young adults, right, But it's like they had
Speaker 2: a regular novel than a young adult novel. So although
Speaker 2: those are set around season one and two, we are
Speaker 2: going to cover those and so that's awesome. It's it's
Speaker 2: gonna be fun to revisit some of the stuff because
Speaker 2: I had I had never read any of those. I
Speaker 2: just never did. I I just didn't. I just you know,
Speaker 2: I was living life and and stuff, and I'd read
Speaker 2: plenty of Star Trek novels and Star Wars novels in
Speaker 2: my day, but never as small oll novels.
Speaker 1: I do remember that the retelling of the pilot was
Speaker 1: called a.
Speaker 2: Rival, Yeah, which is funny to get to see some Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah wow. I haven't pulled those books out in years,
Speaker 1: but I don't remember them being bad though, which is
Speaker 1: a good thing. But I do wonder how much of it,
Speaker 1: like was retconned away by other Canoe. It's kind of
Speaker 1: like you mentioned, like Star Trek novels, they might mention
Speaker 1: something in a novel that is completely.
Speaker 2: Completely ignored, and yeah, I know that's something I want
Speaker 2: to keep track of. As I read these, I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 2: this is not accurate anymore and stuff like that. So
Speaker 2: that's that. That's it's a whole different approach covering novels
Speaker 2: in this But well that's.
Speaker 1: Why I like when when I did my visual guide, Yeah,
Speaker 1: like I remember I named Pete's siblings. Oh, and that's
Speaker 1: listed as Cannon on the small A wiki Cannon Man.
Speaker 1: So until somebody on the show says otherwise, Like, that's
Speaker 1: that's my rule about continuity, and unless it's said, it's
Speaker 1: not true, it might have happened.
Speaker 2: So when we get Small though the animated series, and
Speaker 2: all of Pete's brothers have different names.
Speaker 1: Greg, Yeah, then I'm Rick Conda. But you know, if
Speaker 1: you know, like, didn't the person named Hua's first name
Speaker 1: was in the novel?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Nyoto Hua, that's from a novel. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 2: know what novel. Well, but it's in a Star Trek novel.
Speaker 1: And didn't they do a novel that I'm sorry, I'm
Speaker 1: going on a tangent and you can cut this out
Speaker 1: if you need to, but didn't they do a novel
Speaker 1: that connected Tralain and.
Speaker 2: Q Yes Q Square by Peter David, famous comic writer
Speaker 2: but also a famous Star Trek writer as well.
Speaker 1: So I would have loved to see Peter David write
Speaker 1: a small story.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they've been great, I mean small.
Speaker 1: In the super Bowl series in the comics for the year.
Speaker 2: He would have been season seven called Peter David. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean that's the thing, right. We got Brian Q
Speaker 2: Miller on the show this point in season ten ERA,
Speaker 2: but other than Jeff John's with his annual episode eight
Speaker 2: nine in Sana, then you have Jeff Low for a
Speaker 2: few seasons.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: There was occasionally some some you know, small cross over
Speaker 2: with small villain comic writers, but not not really that
Speaker 2: wasn't know.
Speaker 1: I mean it's interesting because I know Anthony for Digging
Speaker 1: Digging for Kryptonite is doing the Super Boys series now
Speaker 1: and a lot of those episodes were written by people
Speaker 1: who wrote for the comics, which is kind of impressive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Alan milesing to write a comic.
Speaker 1: Alan Miles are busy. Do we really believe Alan Miles
Speaker 1: is going to be involved in an animated show?
Speaker 2: I that's the thing, right, I don't think they'll do
Speaker 2: it without them. So there's your answer, right, I don't.
Speaker 1: Think they contractually they're allowed, Yeah, because of they just
Speaker 1: signed a big deal with Sony.
Speaker 2: But they are doing this. I mean, isn't uhday is Wednesday?
Speaker 1: Want to brother Wednesday? Sony?
Speaker 2: Oh see, I get my cross My streams of beal
Speaker 2: Juice and yeah Wednesday are kind of the same thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, you really need Allen Miles. I would recommend
Speaker 1: getting people like Brian Q. Miller, Hally Henderson, and Don
Speaker 1: White had they wrote the crisis chapter that. I know
Speaker 1: it was controversial, but you can't deny that they didn't
Speaker 1: get the voices of Clark and Lewis perfect.
Speaker 2: Maybe except for Smallville. You made a funny that's my only.
Speaker 1: Oh come on, that was I felt like I was
Speaker 1: watching an episode of small Ville in the year two
Speaker 1: thousand and nine.
Speaker 2: Yep, fantastic. No, then they had the music and everything.
Speaker 2: Oh really? So yeah, I mean we're we'll, we'll cover
Speaker 2: all those things and and do time. But but today
Speaker 2: always holding on They're always holding off to Smallville, but
Speaker 2: today we're holding on to Lazarus's.
Speaker 3: Cap. You would go to do with the Sometimes it's
Speaker 3: hard to share this one fast but just sacrifices or
Speaker 3: my love the fayvers. That's something very dark.
Speaker 2: It's gonna have you got test.
Speaker 3: You could give.
Speaker 2: Lazarus is the first episode of Smallville's tenth season. It
Speaker 2: aired on September twenty fourth, twenty ten, was written by
Speaker 2: Don Whitehead and Holly Henderson and directed by Kevin G.
Speaker 2: Fair So Craig, Well, game, we're playing here in the
Speaker 2: last three seasons of Smallville, the ratings watch, I want
Speaker 2: you to guess what this episode got on a Friday
Speaker 2: night in twenty ten. For a little context, give it
Speaker 2: little help. Right the season nine finale back in May
Speaker 2: twenty ten, two point four five million viewers.
Speaker 1: So, okay, with.
Speaker 2: That information, what do you think Lazar has got in
Speaker 2: September twenty ten.
Speaker 1: Well, I know by twenty ten they at least had
Speaker 1: a lead out, which I don't think they had in
Speaker 1: season nine. I think Supernatural moved to Fridays by this point.
Speaker 1: So say like two point nine million.
Speaker 2: You say two point nine, You're very close, two point
Speaker 2: nine to eight, extremely close, well done, round off to
Speaker 2: the tenth. You got it? Uh So that's gone, right? Yes,
Speaker 2: what let's see what Sea is this season? Let's see
Speaker 2: if this is season ten of Smallville, a's season five
Speaker 2: of Supernatural. Yes, okay, so they moved Supernatural to the
Speaker 2: Friday night death slot and it lasted ten more years.
Speaker 1: Well, how long did don Ostrov try to kill Smallville?
Speaker 1: And yet like the repeats for Smallville were getting bigger
Speaker 1: ratings than Gossip Girl. Yeah, you know, it's like it
Speaker 1: was a good show, Dan, it was.
Speaker 2: It was a good show. But you know, we we
Speaker 2: leave you know, small those season finales and premieres. There's
Speaker 2: two ways to do it, right, It's like cliffhanger, immediately
Speaker 2: pick up after where we left off or three months later.
Speaker 2: Those are kind of your two choices, right, which is media?
Speaker 2: This is the media? You know what's funny to me? Greg,
Speaker 2: and I discovered this, you know, doing the podcast and
Speaker 2: doing all like the math that I do, and one
Speaker 2: day I'm like gonna lay out some ultimate, small, little timeline.
Speaker 2: But if you do the math in uh In Savior
Speaker 2: the season nine premiere, they they say Lois was gone
Speaker 2: for three weeks. But you see a newspaper that says
Speaker 2: September something, and I'm like, are you telling me Doomsday
Speaker 2: happen in September? You know, Henry James Olsen died in September.
Speaker 2: Like they didn't do the math. It's it's like they
Speaker 2: should have had it set in May or June, but
Speaker 2: they're like, no, it's it's September. Like, I don't know why.
Speaker 2: I guess they figured she couldn't be gone for three months, right,
Speaker 2: lost in the future or whatever, But it's just it's
Speaker 2: a funny thing they didn't think about. They're like, oh,
Speaker 2: whatever the air date was for Savior, that was the
Speaker 2: date on the newspaper. You know, it's like September something,
Speaker 2: two thousand and nine, Like, Lois, you've been gone for
Speaker 2: three weeks. And then nobody ever, nobody figures that out all,
Speaker 2: you know. I don't think we ever see Henry James
Speaker 2: Olson's gravestone.
Speaker 1: But I'm just like trying to do the math in
Speaker 1: my head. I feel like there are a couple of
Speaker 1: seasons also where the time jump doesn't happen until like
Speaker 1: after like episode three or something.
Speaker 2: Maybe well, you know, in season one, it's like, obviously
Speaker 2: Vortex is immediate athlete tempest, and then heat is like
Speaker 2: the school year, so we skip over the summer there.
Speaker 2: But I think maybe maybe in season five We're like,
Speaker 2: because they don't immediately go to college, It's like, I
Speaker 2: don't know how much time's passing, But.
Speaker 1: Well, see season five. I feel like, you know, they graduated.
Speaker 1: At the end of season four, they're going to beachin Aqua. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's when school was. It was like that was
Speaker 1: probably like August, yeah, September, because Clark was starting college.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I can see where it would get a
Speaker 1: little confusing.
Speaker 2: I would just it's not going to add up. But
Speaker 2: that's kind of fun to me, Like, I'm gonna try
Speaker 2: to map the events of this show.
Speaker 1: How doctor who fans feel timey?
Speaker 2: Whymy wibbley wobbly exactly. So this episode starts out with
Speaker 2: a previously owned Smallville and it's Allison Macks his voice,
Speaker 2: and they do a really good job of recapping, not
Speaker 2: not I mean they do a lot of recap for
Speaker 2: big moments of the previous season. They don't focus on
Speaker 2: Zod too much. I guess. I guess they would have
Speaker 2: had to pay Callum Blue if they saw his face
Speaker 2: more than a second or whatever. So we don't they
Speaker 2: say Zod. We see clips of things, but they kind
Speaker 2: of focus on tests. They kind of focus on Clark
Speaker 2: being a hero. They focus on stuff like they focus
Speaker 2: on Jonathan's death. You know, they actually reference a scene
Speaker 2: that Clark's talking to Zod about how his father died,
Speaker 2: so that kind of sets us up. They reference doctor
Speaker 2: fab but then then they start referencing like lookx Luthor's
Speaker 2: an ultimate opponent. And we see like the car crash
Speaker 2: from the pilot, but we don't see Lex at all,
Speaker 2: and that's gonna be a theme as we go. We
Speaker 2: see darth Lex blow up Craig.
Speaker 1: Very important, right, I forgot about darth Lex.
Speaker 2: What's even crazy about that we see? And again I'm
Speaker 2: studying this, you know, very in depth for this podcast.
Speaker 2: That's why I'm coming on this thing. Right, So, like
Speaker 2: we see a shot of the the Super Soldier room
Speaker 2: from season six and then we see darth Lex blow
Speaker 2: up them and trying to like imply those are the
Speaker 2: same thing. Those are not the same thing. That's not
Speaker 2: the same thing.
Speaker 1: But they're kind of setting up the cloning.
Speaker 2: They are, so they're doing what they can with like
Speaker 2: the footage that they have, but they set up Oliver
Speaker 2: and Chloe, which which I've really kind of soured on Craig.
Speaker 2: I was like when it happened. I was happy for Chloe, like, oh,
Speaker 2: at least you got Green Arrow because you didn't get Superman.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, I ship Oliver with Lois and Test
Speaker 2: more than than Chloe.
Speaker 1: I don't know how you feel. Yeah, I was not
Speaker 1: a fan of Schlolly that those fans hated me too,
Speaker 1: so they were the original listening it's literally literally black Canary.
Speaker 1: I mean, I understand on Arrow why it didn't happen,
Speaker 1: because I don't think Steven and Katie Cassidy had much
Speaker 1: chemistry at all. But like I felt like Schlolly was
Speaker 1: just one of those things, Like I had a conversation
Speaker 1: with somebody earlier today actually about how that wasn't necessarily
Speaker 1: fan pandering, but it felt like it at the time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I felt like the two those two characters didn't
Speaker 1: even like each other for a while, like let them
Speaker 1: alone and have that chemistry. And also like I feel
Speaker 1: like it's a little bit sexist, like, oh, look, Chloe
Speaker 1: couldn't have Clark, so here's her consolation prize.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I guess at the time, I was like
Speaker 2: happy because they teach that she was gonna kill her
Speaker 2: or whatever. Like every season I was like, oh good,
Speaker 2: she's gonna have a happy ending, so that that at
Speaker 2: least made me feel better at the time. But watching
Speaker 2: it again now, I'm like, we've never heard of her.
Speaker 2: We have no record of Chloe sol What does that
Speaker 2: mean anyway? They try to explain it this season future,
Speaker 2: but we see you know, we do see in here,
Speaker 2: which is interesting, maybe because he was a guest star.
Speaker 2: We see Michael McKean. He's like, what do you say
Speaker 2: a kid to go to Africa right to Lois and
Speaker 2: I assume that's like, maybe that's a guest star things.
Speaker 2: He had a guest star contract as opposed to Callum
Speaker 2: blueho had a main actor contract. Same thing. Not not
Speaker 2: a hint of Michael Rosemam in this, which we'll discuss,
Speaker 2: which I think is very intentional. They don't want to
Speaker 2: remind you what Lex actually looks like. But know that
Speaker 2: they set up in a Lois finding out that Clark
Speaker 2: was a blur and as they as they do, they
Speaker 2: do this great montage of like make small of it
Speaker 2: look like the greatest TV show of all time, hype you.
Speaker 1: Up, which is accurate.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's why we're here, right, so exactly
Speaker 2: show they show you a clip of Clark on like
Speaker 2: the scarecrow from the pilot, You're like, why is that? Well,
Speaker 2: we're all gonna find out, We're not gonna right, we're
Speaker 2: not gonna see that. We see him burning down the
Speaker 2: towers in uh in uh the Valentine's episode. But that's
Speaker 2: the reason they do that is because you know, they
Speaker 2: referenced it in this episode when he's talking to go
Speaker 2: stat at the end. We'll get there. And then you know,
Speaker 2: one of the if this episode had a weak part
Speaker 2: and it's just surminded me, why rewatching this us on?
Speaker 2: It's the they're not Candorian and you show all these
Speaker 2: like flying red dots. Clearly that was like gonna be
Speaker 2: paradeemons or something, but somebody said, you know what, we
Speaker 2: don't have the budget for that, so they became like
Speaker 2: the suicide squad, you know what I mean. So they
Speaker 2: highlight that moment in this previous a mount and just
Speaker 2: reminded me. But it's a great montage and we see Clark,
Speaker 2: you know, falling out off the building a family, and
Speaker 2: then we see Tom Wellings say and now the final
Speaker 2: season of Small Vel, so it really had a lot
Speaker 2: of a lot of weight to it. You know. So
Speaker 2: the episode starts out Lois is running in the rain.
Speaker 2: She sees Clark, you know, the blur on the concrete.
Speaker 2: No one else is around, by the way, I guess,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I guess because the sun comes up
Speaker 2: over the course of this. I guess it's like, you
Speaker 2: know what, six in the morning, and so it makes
Speaker 2: in somebody's there. Otherwise you have a lot of civilians
Speaker 2: been like, hey, it's the blur.
Speaker 1: You know. Well, maybe the civilians don't go to the
Speaker 1: one street in the small of the back cloth.
Speaker 2: Maybe not. Apparently not, I liken later on, like Lexus like, hey,
Speaker 2: rush hour traffic and it's like twelve people there, but
Speaker 2: it's fine. They're on a budgeted season. Cha to give
Speaker 2: him a break. But Lois finds, you know, Clark, he's
Speaker 2: unconscious because he's I mean, hey for having no powers
Speaker 2: in the Blue Crib night in him. Uh he survived
Speaker 2: falling off a hundred story building, pretty good. Huh.
Speaker 1: Well, I also feel like when she threw the dagger, yeah,
Speaker 1: started to come back and heal, and I mean even.
Speaker 2: If he was truly a human and he would be
Speaker 2: like a bloody, bloody mess Lionel like Lionel falling off
Speaker 2: the top of leather garp.
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, but maybe like internally it all just
Speaker 1: started to heal itself, like he had internal bleeding or whatever.
Speaker 2: We can fan justify it all day long. I just exactly,
Speaker 2: I you know what I thought. You know, what was
Speaker 2: so fun about the season nine from Alleys. There's so
Speaker 2: many possibilities what could happen? Like I thought like, oh,
Speaker 2: is he gonna like pull the dag around and fly
Speaker 2: off or something'd be so cool, right, I thought that
Speaker 2: might be a thing, But no, he's He's there on
Speaker 2: the ground. Lois is cradling him. He's unconscious of course,
Speaker 2: and then we get this you know, transition into like
Speaker 2: the afterlife. He's in this, he's in this this limbo
Speaker 2: state here? Kaik, what did you think of all this.
Speaker 1: That? I mean, it kind of makes sense because if
Speaker 1: you have a near death experience, you know, you are
Speaker 1: likely to imagine something. Where it got weird for me
Speaker 1: is like later I still don't really understand the ghost
Speaker 1: dad of it all. But uh here, I mean it
Speaker 1: it's just like he was in that middle place. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and once he was back, he was back, but it
Speaker 1: wasn't Lazarus, the story of somebody who came back from
Speaker 1: the dead.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Lazarus is from the Bible of Jesus resurrects a
Speaker 2: person called Lazarus. They never say Lazarus in this they
Speaker 2: should they should have called it Cadmus Project Lazarus. But anyway,
Speaker 2: Cadinets is from the comics. I'm really glad they it's
Speaker 2: sole Season one. Is what a great call back. So
Speaker 2: Victoria's yeah, Victoria scuff and ed her dad, right, Adam's laughs.
Speaker 2: Thom has some great superman here in this limbo sequence.
Speaker 2: By the way, he's got this nice little little curl.
Speaker 2: He's looking great, but he's wandering around these these cornfields, right,
Speaker 2: and it's like, okay, that's what what he would understand,
Speaker 2: right or here his brain processing this. I totally bow that.
Speaker 2: Interesting stuff like we see like the we see the
Speaker 2: the well the cross from from the violet of this right,
Speaker 2: we see crows on it, and I think they're trying
Speaker 2: to They're like hinting dark side, right, because crows is
Speaker 2: dark side apparently.
Speaker 1: The dark side bust of the smoveled crows also truebody.
Speaker 1: The other thing I really love about that, though, is
Speaker 1: a cornfield was one of the first things we ever
Speaker 1: saw on the show in the pilot, so it's kind
Speaker 1: of like a callback. It's like, okay, and obviously some
Speaker 1: of the other stuff is a callback as well, but
Speaker 1: it's like, this is where the show started, this is
Speaker 1: how our final journey will begin. Yeah, And I thought
Speaker 1: that was really strong and great, and it's like, I
Speaker 1: feel like there was a lot of reflection in the
Speaker 1: story in general and reflecting on where it started where
Speaker 1: it's gone. And I mean, I love Salvation also, so
Speaker 1: I mean that would have been a good point too.
Speaker 1: But with the previously on for Lazarus, I think you
Speaker 1: could sell this episode to somebody who hadn't seen the
Speaker 1: show in a long time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because there's a lot of recognizable things that they
Speaker 2: can they can connect to, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: But also just the notion that it's very clear from
Speaker 1: the jump of some of the things have changed, Like
Speaker 1: Lois isn't like rasing Clark in the same way anymore.
Speaker 1: It's like they clearly have feelings for each other. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's very clear that Lois has figured out
Speaker 1: what's up, and I think that's really cool. I mean,
Speaker 1: I would highly recommend this episode to somebody who's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I give up around season five.
Speaker 2: Well it's good because a lot of people when you
Speaker 2: hear a show's gonna end, I'm this way and you
Speaker 2: haven't watched it, why, like, well, let me jump on.
Speaker 2: At least watched the last season, right, And so they
Speaker 2: were whised to do all the things you're saying in
Speaker 2: those connecting points. But no, you're right, it's recognizable iconography. Right.
Speaker 2: Then he starts talking to Darrell. He's like, you're teetering
Speaker 2: on the abyss between life and death. So that's how
Speaker 2: they kind of get around it. This this gravestone appears,
Speaker 2: it looks like Jonathan's. Clark thinks that Jonathan's. Then he
Speaker 2: like pushes the corn away and it's his grave.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: He rejects that this is like, he rejects this is
Speaker 2: his destiny because he's seen his fate. And he breaks
Speaker 2: the stone with his hand, which is a cool effect.
Speaker 1: I think, well, yeah, because I mean that actually goes
Speaker 1: back to like our glass where he saw everybody's stone
Speaker 1: for his own. Yeah, so you know, just yeah, I
Speaker 1: feel like they really did their homework. And that's another
Speaker 1: reason why, you know, I had mentioned earlier that I
Speaker 1: really liked the work of Don Whyhead and Holly Henderson.
Speaker 1: I thought they did a great job writing the premiere
Speaker 1: and getting us to the right places and you can
Speaker 1: go on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's a lot of great a lot of
Speaker 2: great callbacks, right. You know, it did make me think
Speaker 2: of you know, Crisis, which I like the Chris Inferor
Speaker 2: sending for this Clark can't. I know you do as well?
Speaker 2: Oh I did, yes, And it's this this little conversation
Speaker 2: they'll kind of made me think of it because girl's like, hey, Clark,
Speaker 2: you sacrifice yourself and you left Earth undefended, and he's like,
Speaker 2: I left like a team of heroes. Grel's like, nope,
Speaker 2: supposed to be the hero. Yeah.
Speaker 1: My thought about Crisis, and I know I've talked about
Speaker 1: it probably with you before, is that there are other
Speaker 1: people who are handling things, but the second things get
Speaker 1: too bad where Clark has to save the day, he'll
Speaker 1: just hop into that Kryptonian sauna from Superman two and boom,
Speaker 1: he's super.
Speaker 2: Sickly there's always a way to give his powers back,
Speaker 2: so sending me back, you know, so he would do
Speaker 2: the same thing we're seeing here there. Yeah, He's like
Speaker 2: I need to step into the light. And you know,
Speaker 2: this is interesting again you're talking about uh Don and
Speaker 2: Holly writing this episode and tying things together, that they're
Speaker 2: trying to tie all this stuff together that doesn't really fit,
Speaker 2: and they're doing a really good job. Because Darrell's like,
Speaker 2: I told you to rule them with strength, but you
Speaker 2: chose the martyr's path. I'm like, wow, you're calling back
Speaker 2: to like Rosetta with that, you know that that message
Speaker 2: that doesn't even fit like anymore what Jorel is. So
Speaker 2: they're doing they're doing a really good job of it.
Speaker 2: And they this whole time, Clark thinks that Jirell is
Speaker 2: the one who sent him back, but that's not the case.
Speaker 2: So lois pulling off the daggers. Really we send him back?
Speaker 1: No, Does it mean Jerel was kind of like a dream.
Speaker 2: That's the thing, right, because he's see yeah, because it's
Speaker 2: not computer dure, because he's like in the afterlife, right,
Speaker 2: it's I don't know, it's all baby internal. But then
Speaker 2: he sees, well, let's talk about this. He sees Lex
Speaker 2: or Lex's sun double. They do a good job hiding
Speaker 2: the right Now here's here's let's just talk about this now,
Speaker 2: Craig Okay, Michael Rosenbaum. I believe they thought he was
Speaker 2: going to come back for this episode. Is that accurate?
Speaker 1: Yes? I can't remember who it was mentioned to me
Speaker 1: before that they assumed until a couple of weeks before
Speaker 1: filming that he'd be back. But also there was a
Speaker 1: very strong rumor online in that summertime that Michael was
Speaker 1: coming back, and I remember Michael had emailed me around
Speaker 1: that time and it was like, no, I'm not coming back,
Speaker 1: and he wanted to do an interview talking about his
Speaker 1: not coming back, which is probably like a pre Twitter
Speaker 1: negotiation tactic or something back then, but I was like,
Speaker 1: the Smallville publicist will kill me if I did this
Speaker 1: without checking with them first. So then I finally was like,
Speaker 1: how about this, Why don't we talk about one of
Speaker 1: your new projects and just put this in as a PS. Yeah,
Speaker 1: But by the time we got to that point, he
Speaker 1: had just kind of like lost interest and didn't care anymore.
Speaker 2: So so that's so unfortunate because you can that totally
Speaker 2: makes sense, right because you watch this episode and you think, oh,
Speaker 2: this was conceived start to finish with you have Lex
Speaker 2: back maybe and again like he's at least in this
Speaker 2: episode and then who knows in between, and then he
Speaker 2: comes back again at the end like the last couple
Speaker 2: of episodes. You're like, you know what that would have been?
Speaker 2: That would have been great, right, because you get.
Speaker 1: That little taste wonderful.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because because we we'd start here, we see a
Speaker 2: guy in the president you know, it's fine, it's the
Speaker 2: imagery that we know. It's in the white president suit. Yeah,
Speaker 2: going through the going through that and I don't even
Speaker 2: know what that means, right, because like is he like
Speaker 2: I don't know, because I don't know if like he
Speaker 2: got resurrected at the same time, I don't know. I
Speaker 2: don't care. But it's it's cool.
Speaker 1: I really hope that Talkville gets to this point. Oh please,
Speaker 1: because I want to hear Michael talking about the other
Speaker 1: Lex luthors.
Speaker 2: I needed. I need to hear his thoughts on Darth
Speaker 2: Lex and all that.
Speaker 1: Right, Well, Darth Lex. Uh that was right?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah. The rumor that got as far as like Asiello
Speaker 1: at tv Line was that Michael was going to record
Speaker 1: a voiceover for that episode. Yeah, voice and that didn't
Speaker 1: happen either. I never found out why that didn't.
Speaker 2: Happen voice actor for DC Comics, Michael Ross involves so perfect.
Speaker 2: It's so perfect, right, Yeah, I think you know when
Speaker 2: we watch we watched record for the for the podcast here,
Speaker 2: it's it did irrecovable damage to the story with like
Speaker 2: Lana and Lex in my opinion, But it was actually
Speaker 2: a pretty entertaining episode if you look at it on
Speaker 2: its own. I thought for a while, yeah, so it
Speaker 2: had ramifications, but I think it's like Season ten is
Speaker 2: a lot like that, Like they did the best they
Speaker 2: could with like being kind of you know, left in
Speaker 2: the wind by Michael here because like they use they
Speaker 2: use this Lex stunt double here in the field, there
Speaker 2: is the clone Lex. Later it's like this is so like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you're supposed to see Lex, but they you have.
Speaker 1: To acknowledge that. I mean, I know Michael had really
Speaker 1: bad back pain at the time, which we no, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, we the public did not. I didn't know.
Speaker 1: Like I remember when he said he was leaving at
Speaker 1: the end of season seven. I thought he was bluffing actually,
Speaker 1: and I guess he's not going to leave the show,
Speaker 1: and then he did. But no, he had like a
Speaker 1: major back surgery on season six or seven, and I
Speaker 1: think it was painful for him to do it. It
Speaker 1: might have been painful to fly to Vancouver for all me. Now, yeah,
Speaker 1: so I mean that's a factor that we just aren't
Speaker 1: privy too. But I'm so glad he came back eventually.
Speaker 1: Spoilers for everybody.
Speaker 2: But no, it would have like these conversations are kind
Speaker 2: of interesting what if scenarios and stuff now, like, oh,
Speaker 2: there's so many, but it would have been a lot more.
Speaker 2: These conversations would be a lot more frustrating if he
Speaker 2: never came back, like that was essential. So thank god
Speaker 2: he did. So we give it, We give him credit
Speaker 2: for coming back.
Speaker 1: There, let's put a pin in that because there's another
Speaker 1: what if scenario I want to talk as we get
Speaker 1: further into.
Speaker 2: The excellent let's do it. But you know what, Michael's
Speaker 2: not the only one who comes back. Lex and Clark
Speaker 2: both come back from the dead here, and because Lois
Speaker 2: pulls out then the blue Krypton Knight knife and throws it, you.
Speaker 1: Know, and Tests sort of comes back.
Speaker 2: That's true. She's everybody's Lazarus, right. I mean they already
Speaker 2: used the title resurrection back in season three. Craigs, It's like, well,
Speaker 2: we'll go with we'll go with.
Speaker 1: Last, and it's like they blew the title crisis in
Speaker 1: that same art.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like, oh right, but that's you're again. You're
Speaker 2: you're tying Clark and Les together, which is like what
Speaker 2: the show always did. But they both like get resurrected here,
Speaker 2: at least visually. So it's great. And we see, you know,
Speaker 2: we see the sun's coming up and Clark's getting his
Speaker 2: powers restored, and Lois sees that, so she like kind
Speaker 2: of scurries away because she doesn't want Clark to know
Speaker 2: that she knows, which is a fun conceit. I'm glad
Speaker 2: they played with that for a few episodes.
Speaker 1: Right, and you know, and we get rewarded when it's
Speaker 1: finally resolved. But like, I feel like Kevin Fair did
Speaker 1: a great job directing this episode. There are just so
Speaker 1: many like really iconic shots. I mean, obviously being a
Speaker 1: season premiere, they had a little bit more money. I'm sure,
Speaker 1: like the shot of Clark, you know, in the sun, Yeah,
Speaker 1: with wound healing, I thought that was just so cool.
Speaker 2: It's epic, It looks epic. They're on this same back
Speaker 2: lot that they have to shoot on, but they get
Speaker 2: like you was directed in an epic way. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: yeah him he can't fly into the sun yet and
Speaker 2: soak it up. So this is the small version of
Speaker 2: him like soaking it all up. And it was a
Speaker 2: great show. He feels like he does. Yeah, he does, right,
Speaker 2: but but then you know, Lois sees him super speed off.
Speaker 2: And then we get to the opening credits, and let's
Speaker 2: talk about these these opening credits. So we get a
Speaker 2: lot of the same shots that we get like the
Speaker 2: second meteor shower, all that good stuff. Now they change
Speaker 2: some stuff in the opening credits, like like Tom Weillings
Speaker 2: shot of Clark during his credit it's from the pilot
Speaker 2: of the show, which was an interesting choice. I thought,
Speaker 2: I'm like this ten year old shot, like.
Speaker 1: Which shot was.
Speaker 2: It's it's just a close up of him with the
Speaker 2: chryst nine necklace on and he's hanging on the cross and.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, because for some reason I was thinking that
Speaker 1: is the background of his shot was still in the
Speaker 1: phone booth.
Speaker 2: That would have been great because I feel like.
Speaker 1: They kept that eye candy in for like most of
Speaker 1: the seasons.
Speaker 2: Well, so I understand that they're calling back the season
Speaker 2: one here, Like you said, they're bringing in a full circle.
Speaker 2: But like they use Craig. I've complained about this shot
Speaker 2: on this podcast for years. They used the shot from
Speaker 2: Shimmer where the c GI mace it's his face and
Speaker 2: I've never liked that. I'm like, guys, you have you
Speaker 2: have nine seasons of shots that choose. I have no
Speaker 2: idea why they brought that back, right, mm hmm. But
Speaker 2: we see stuff we haven't seen yet, like you're talking about.
Speaker 2: We see a little bit of Lowest in Africa. We
Speaker 2: see we see we see Lois and glasses, which is funny.
Speaker 2: We see we see Clark in glasses. All this false
Speaker 2: advertising that Clark said me wearing glasses, right, we see
Speaker 2: we see tests a little bit in the in the
Speaker 2: Cadmus labs. There they change, uh, they changed Justin Hartley's
Speaker 2: green arrow shot to just I don't know what it
Speaker 2: was wrong, but it was from something else than it
Speaker 2: was before because I.
Speaker 1: Had shot was from like arrow or something.
Speaker 2: Well it was that. What was funny is I didn't
Speaker 2: realize this so doing the last progress for Salvation is
Speaker 2: that the clo of Justin Harley's green Arrow's it's from
Speaker 2: Bride when he shoots the dummy legs and it falls
Speaker 2: over and we see that reflection in his glasses. I've
Speaker 2: been watching this show for years. I just didn't notice
Speaker 2: that anything. Oh well that's gone. Now that's changed, and
Speaker 2: that's why I noticed it. But and we get a
Speaker 2: little bit Alison mac in the opening credits.
Speaker 1: One thing that the fandom was talking about so much
Speaker 1: that summer was is Alison going to be in the
Speaker 1: opening credits? Yes, had to reduce contract. So like watching
Speaker 1: those opening titles and even mentioned on the DVD commentary,
Speaker 1: how like the fans were just anxiously anticipating, well is
Speaker 1: she here? Is she not? And I remember I was
Speaker 1: on set for the show Fringe. I was on a
Speaker 1: Vancouver press trip when the episode was screened for the crew,
Speaker 1: and somebody sent me a text message to tell me, Yes,
Speaker 1: Allison's in the credits. I you know, I know, I
Speaker 1: probably couldn't have updated crypton site immediately, but I definitely
Speaker 1: tweeted it as soon as I knew, and I'm sure
Speaker 1: there was much celebration at the time, you know, which
Speaker 1: I mean, it's very interesting. You've got like those six
Speaker 1: or seven episodes that do have Aliston in the credits,
Speaker 1: and then you know.
Speaker 2: The Dallas and Mac right, yeah, yeah, and.
Speaker 1: Then they took her out completely, which understandably she's not
Speaker 1: in every.
Speaker 2: Episode right right. And then and you're I think you're
Speaker 2: the one that put this out to me years ago.
Speaker 2: You're like, hey, watch season ten. There's four cast members
Speaker 2: in that opening credits. I'm like, wow, you're right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it just gets dwindling smaller and smaller.
Speaker 2: Because most seasons had seven. So it's like literally almost
Speaker 2: half the amount of people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm surprised that doctor Emil never made.
Speaker 2: It, right, he's in so many episodes or even I mean,
Speaker 2: not that I want her there, but Cat Grant guy,
Speaker 2: she's annoyed.
Speaker 1: Oh no, I'm not no cat. Like if it's the
Speaker 1: Cat Grant from the new My Adventures to Man cartoon,
Speaker 1: I'll allow it because she's awesome, but not that cat.
Speaker 2: Grant, not this cat Grant. No, I'm with you.
Speaker 1: I feel like the diminished cast thing actually started with
Speaker 1: seasons eight. They lost Michael and Kristen and John Glover.
Speaker 2: Yeah you use three, yeah.
Speaker 1: And then you only added two. You Sam were in,
Speaker 1: Cassidy oh and Justin So I guess you did have
Speaker 1: the same amount, right, It just felt like a lot
Speaker 1: because I remember when season eight was announced, I think
Speaker 1: the only people were who were confirmed to be coming
Speaker 1: back to that time were like Tom Erica, Aaron Ashmore,
Speaker 1: and I feel like maybe Kristin Krook was in the
Speaker 1: press release just because she was announced as doing the
Speaker 1: five episodes.
Speaker 2: Because they knew, no matter what happened, that she wouldn't
Speaker 2: come back.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but nobody else was, like Allison wasn't signed yet.
Speaker 2: So you know, we probably talked about this back when
Speaker 2: we did Arctic, you know, but like Kristin Krik, she
Speaker 2: had to come back for season eight because episodes were made.
Speaker 2: She was just unavailable now, right, had had they had
Speaker 2: the season ended with Veritas and they hadn't done more episodes,
Speaker 2: no one would have had to come back, right, because
Speaker 2: then the season would have been concluded. Because part of
Speaker 2: me things like what if? Because the great what if
Speaker 2: is like that the strike does not end, season seven ends,
Speaker 2: and fifteen, does Michael have to come back for five
Speaker 2: episodes or whatever?
Speaker 1: Because the other weird thing to wonder is, I know
Speaker 1: John Glover owed them episodes in season seven, but I
Speaker 1: don't think they were used for his season ten appearances.
Speaker 2: Oh oh that would have been Yeah, what's the what's
Speaker 2: the show life on those?
Speaker 1: Yeah? But I do think like they didn't have to
Speaker 1: pay him extra to put his scenes in dissent because
Speaker 1: because they are contracted for that number of episods.
Speaker 2: Anyway, Yeah, interesting, interesting, anyway you get into the weeds
Speaker 2: of the actors and stuff.
Speaker 1: Because it is only in like seven episodes of season seven.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well he was off like doing a plague and
Speaker 2: got a shave and a haircut.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it was. It was crazy. But yeah, so
Speaker 1: the opening credits, that was such a big deal.
Speaker 2: And yeah, and then you know, to to wrap up
Speaker 2: talking about the human credits, we had a great montage
Speaker 2: of all these money shots, right, we get the shopping
Speaker 2: commenced of him throwing the crystal, we get a shot
Speaker 2: at him in the Fortress train, and we get the
Speaker 2: the Superman s even though it should be reversed and
Speaker 2: looked like a bizarre in his eye.
Speaker 1: Oh that bugged me so much. I mean, it was
Speaker 1: a beautiful shot, but it's like you just turn it around, like.
Speaker 2: Mom, thanks for the costume, but the s is backwards.
Speaker 1: Mom, who do you think I am? Mom? Bizarre?
Speaker 2: Yeah, But then but then we get again teasing stuff
Speaker 2: to come. We get him, you know, holding the Daily
Speaker 2: Planet globe up, but we see the end of this episode,
Speaker 2: and then of course we end on the great shot
Speaker 2: from the season nine premiere of him just like standing
Speaker 2: over the city and in his Blur outfit. And did
Speaker 2: it Did it surprise you, Craig?
Speaker 1: Yes, that even what I'm going to say, I just
Speaker 1: I'm just playing this like a game show. Yes, it
Speaker 1: surprised me. The costume with the red.
Speaker 2: Jacket, That's exactly what I was going to say, you
Speaker 2: want you, I am a black trench coat season nine
Speaker 2: Blur outfit guy. I like that more than the red
Speaker 2: jacket because I feel that the red jacket and a
Speaker 2: blue shirt we've done that for years, and I felt
Speaker 2: like that's kind of almost a step back, right.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I disagree because he's Superman not Batman.
Speaker 2: But true, no, these are all valid arguments, so you get.
Speaker 2: But I guess it's interesting to me that here we are,
Speaker 2: season ten, this opening credit is full of him in
Speaker 2: the season nine costume. It's just strange.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, But I think as far as the arc of
Speaker 1: the show, I feel like, especially since the goal is
Speaker 1: for him to get away from the darkness and go
Speaker 1: towards the light. You know, he had a lighter costume.
Speaker 1: Even the blue on his undershirt was a very light blue,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like, I don't know, I
Speaker 1: feel like that was just like a step towards where
Speaker 1: he was going to be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I guess I feel like, Okay, he
Speaker 2: got the one transitional costume and the black trench coat,
Speaker 2: and then like another transitional costume when he has this,
Speaker 2: when he literally has the Superman costume sitting right there
Speaker 2: in a box. I think that's where mainly my frustration
Speaker 2: I get.
Speaker 1: Alo speaks to like the character development on the show,
Speaker 1: there would have been a period of time where Lois
Speaker 1: opened that box and just would have busted out laughing.
Speaker 2: Hm hmm. Yeah, they come a long way. Huh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know it's like Clark, what is this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, so we come back from the Benning
Speaker 2: credits and we get Chloe. She's rushing through the you know,
Speaker 2: the watchtower. She's looking for all of her you know,
Speaker 2: this is okay, So this entire subplot is basically like
Speaker 2: them writing Alison mac off the show for a while, Yes,
Speaker 2: and and it you know, and it feels that way too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was actually the other what if that
Speaker 1: I was thinking about. Okay, I feel like the whole
Speaker 1: what they end up doing, and we'll get to that
Speaker 1: is a bit convoluted. Oh, they just you know, swapped.
Speaker 1: But also it's like, I don't know, like I feel
Speaker 1: like if Alison had stayed, it might have been more
Speaker 1: interesting to see their character development there and more of that.
Speaker 2: All of her Chloe relationship we love so much, Craig.
Speaker 1: Oh, exactly, I'm trying to say, how to put this,
Speaker 1: Like it just would have been a very different vibe,
Speaker 1: And I didn't feel that Chloe turning herself in was necessary,
Speaker 1: I guess, especially if she's completely back by the end
Speaker 1: of the season more or less, you know, Chloe Sullivan
Speaker 1: still exists, like if like maybe it's like she's like
Speaker 1: krypton site. No, but maybe she It might have been
Speaker 1: better if just something like took her off the board
Speaker 1: completely mm hmm, like she seemed to not exist anymore,
Speaker 1: and then they found a way to bring her back
Speaker 1: by the end of the season or something like that.
Speaker 1: Fulfilling religions prophecy.
Speaker 2: I talked to a group of people from the future
Speaker 2: and they told me Chloe didn't exist. Yeah, the whole conversation.
Speaker 1: Or like it might have been interesting if the doctor
Speaker 1: fate helmet drove her crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and then tying together what her fear
Speaker 2: was years ago to kind of because we keep pulling
Speaker 2: back to those threads that we said, so lots of possibilities,
Speaker 2: but they kind of took the most boring one. You know,
Speaker 2: they have so much. They're juggling here, right, so when
Speaker 2: we're we're just commenting on potential the potential things that
Speaker 2: we see here all these years later, but it's an
Speaker 2: unimitable task. They're like, Okay, well Michael didn't come back,
Speaker 2: and Allison's leaving, and just figure it out. And they're
Speaker 2: and they're figuring it out. They're doing a pretty entertaining
Speaker 2: job doing it, right. So yeah, yeah, So to call
Speaker 2: back what I mentioned earlier from that previously on right,
Speaker 2: she watches the OLI her sunglasses feed apparently because she
Speaker 2: found his sunglasses of wherever he was and that in
Speaker 2: the air duct. Watches the feed and it's it's it's
Speaker 2: Rick Flag. They're not Candorian Craig, they're the suicide squad
Speaker 2: and it's Rick Flagg played by Ted Witzall who of
Speaker 2: course goes on interestingly enough to play a different character
Speaker 2: in the movie Suicide Squad, and he had been in talking. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's Rick Flagg and Amanda Waller and him are all
Speaker 2: uh in the restaurant or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, my favorite moment in Man of Steel's and they're like,
Speaker 1: I'd like you to meet doctor Emil Hamilton and Alessandro
Speaker 1: Giuliani is in the very next scene.
Speaker 2: There we go, small people littering the d C.
Speaker 1: It's fun to see the lex clone.
Speaker 2: Mackenzie. Yeah he's Jack. Yeah, in his he just kept
Speaker 2: his head shaved after this episode. Yeah, he just Oh
Speaker 2: my goodness. But I felt like to me, I said
Speaker 2: it before, but I'm like, oh, oh, we chieved out,
Speaker 2: didn't we, Like, like I really thought. I don't think
Speaker 2: it's unfair to me to think those were pair of
Speaker 2: demons considering me saw Granny Goodness right in the season
Speaker 2: nine finale and they're setting up dark Side, like no, no, no,
Speaker 2: that was just a bunch of Suicide Squad members and
Speaker 2: and so he's like, we're all coming for you, and
Speaker 2: this freaks Coy out. But then Clark shows up in
Speaker 2: the wat shower and she's like, oh, Clark, Hey, what's happened?
Speaker 2: He explains, Oh, yeah, well odd he's gone now and
Speaker 2: Blue Krypton I and whatever. Don't worry about it, but back,
Speaker 2: And she's like, what did you die? He's like a
Speaker 2: kind of one of your death experience, which I think
Speaker 2: is the best way to describe what you saw. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and he tells her, Hey, I saw Lex and Joelle
Speaker 2: warming about a great darkness. It must be Lex and
Speaker 2: he must be back. And Chloe's like, well, let me
Speaker 2: look up all this stuff. No, no, all his projects
Speaker 2: are dead, and we see some really cool like uh
Speaker 2: pictures and references to things like level three metro Pharmaceuticals,
Speaker 2: Level thirty three probably one. So again, these deep connuity cuts.
Speaker 1: You're talking about Craig project aries there.
Speaker 2: It is, Yeah, and it's that's really cool because because
Speaker 2: they to the average viewer, Yeah, but to us, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: that's that's the world, that's the universe, building that we
Speaker 2: love something.
Speaker 1: And then you know, Cadmus is such a deep cut, such.
Speaker 2: A deep cut, and hey, to tight I mean we
Speaker 2: were talking about, you know, what happened to the clone
Speaker 2: Lex and all that stuff. Superboy in the comic books,
Speaker 2: Cadmus Labs is where super Boy comes from, so it's
Speaker 2: almost more appropriate Craig then he turned to super Boy.
Speaker 2: It's ironically right.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But the conclusion they come to is, and I think
Speaker 2: into the episode's credit it's not really a nitpick, but
Speaker 2: it's like Chloe just keeps sending Clark places away so
Speaker 2: she can go do what she wants to do because
Speaker 2: there's no evidence of, you know, any of these projects
Speaker 2: of lex Is still being active. She's like, oh, you
Speaker 2: know what, Clark maybe was like older project and it's
Speaker 2: not digital, so why don't you why don't you go
Speaker 2: to the Daily Planet archives And he's like, oh, okay, great. Meanwhile,
Speaker 2: she because she knows she's gonna go put on the
Speaker 2: doctor Fate home and then she does that again later
Speaker 2: She's like, oh, I think there's a fire somewhere, see
Speaker 2: you later, Clark. So I think this is her, like, you.
Speaker 1: Know, runs in the family to play little tricks on Clark.
Speaker 2: We're about, yeah, that's true, that's true. So he goes
Speaker 2: to those same Daily Planet archives, right, Lois is down
Speaker 2: there and she's clicking through and this is actually as
Speaker 2: it's a good moment for her because she's clicking through,
Speaker 2: she sees Lana Pete, who she's never met. I don't
Speaker 2: know why she even that registers with her. Good to
Speaker 2: see these characters though, right she sees Clark, She's like, wow,
Speaker 2: I'm the last one to know. And I'm like wow.
Speaker 1: And so it's the small Ville Torch. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: such a callback.
Speaker 2: That's that's why she's in the Daily Planet Archives. Correct
Speaker 2: to look at the small Ville Torch Archives.
Speaker 1: Maybe they have a website, they still exist, like Krypton site.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no, that this This is a great moment
Speaker 2: because again they're trying to tile this stuff together. And
Speaker 2: then Clark shows up and the archives and she knows
Speaker 2: that he's the Blur. He doesn't know that she knows, right,
Speaker 2: and this is a fun I love this dynamic. And
Speaker 2: they play it out for the first five episodes of
Speaker 2: the season and she's like kind of like, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: so the Blur kiss me. He's like, oh yeah, So
Speaker 2: it's it's a fun back and forth year.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, And I love that she just like drops
Speaker 1: the pen on the ground kind of it's kind of
Speaker 1: like Chloe's antics, and because she knows Clark needs an
Speaker 1: excuse to go to these Bins and she's just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't find it anywhere. It's my favorite pan And
Speaker 1: it was just like, I think that's one thing I
Speaker 1: really appreciate about Small Villain in particular, is especially by
Speaker 1: this point, they don't play Lois like she's stupid.
Speaker 2: Yeah. After season I mean, starting in season seven ish,
Speaker 2: they kind of started to treat her with the maturity
Speaker 2: she deserved, you.
Speaker 1: Know, right, But it's like, of course, Lois Lane, the
Speaker 1: best reporter, is going to figure out that Clark Kent
Speaker 1: is Superman, even if she couldn't figure out that her
Speaker 1: boyfriend who dressed up like Robin Hood one week was
Speaker 1: the Green Arro on the next week. I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't know how she didn't figure that one out, but
Speaker 1: you know whatever. But No, I thought that was a
Speaker 1: really good moment and very good character building. It's almost well,
Speaker 1: I mean they even say it on the show like
Speaker 1: it's almost like she wants to wait till he's okay
Speaker 1: with telling her. Yeah, but it also doesn't seem like
Speaker 1: she's angry with him about it.
Speaker 2: No, I think she she's very mature about the whole thing.
Speaker 2: And yeah, and that goes a long way. You know,
Speaker 2: You're right, like, I don't I think the secret I
Speaker 2: didnity love triangle thing is fun and they did the
Speaker 2: they did the thing of the faum Moth and small
Speaker 2: boltes of their credit. Like I think you can't, like
Speaker 2: you can't have a status quo where Clark, Kent and
Speaker 2: Lowis Lang work together for years and she doesn't know
Speaker 2: he's superman. I think maybe like maybe like a year
Speaker 2: or so like something like like you know, Lewis and
Speaker 2: Clark at the same way, like a couple of seasons
Speaker 2: and the look, hey, she's got to find out now, right,
Speaker 2: and if in Smallville it kind of soft rebooted in
Speaker 2: season eight, you know, and Okay, it's been a couple
Speaker 2: years since they've been doing their thing, now is it's
Speaker 2: about time for her to find out. So I don't know,
Speaker 2: like I I don't I like secret identities, right, but
Speaker 2: I think she should. She should definitely find out and
Speaker 2: find out very quickly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but yeah, it was time for her to find out.
Speaker 1: And it was you know, like the whole thing in Salvation.
Speaker 1: You know, when she has that realization, it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: it's earned, it's earned.
Speaker 2: So yeah, she just is a little she she crawls
Speaker 2: on the desk. Hears him super speed and clearly he
Speaker 2: did whatever he need to do. So she comes out
Speaker 2: is like, oh, I found it, and he's like, oh,
Speaker 2: well what I was looking for was right here anyway,
Speaker 2: So I'm gonna go. And she smiles and you know.
Speaker 1: But also like stick, why wouldn't he have just told
Speaker 1: Lois what he was looking for?
Speaker 2: That's true.
Speaker 1: I guess super speed to find it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because it's like, well, let me help.
Speaker 1: You, and he's like, no, this will take hours.
Speaker 2: So he calls Chloe back and he's like, hey, Cole,
Speaker 2: I need you to look up Cadmus laugh. He's like, sorry, Clark,
Speaker 2: I can't. I'm at Carter Hall's house. I'm gonna put
Speaker 2: on this helmet now, this doctor Feate helmet. I like
Speaker 2: the JSA costumes and all that correct, But hear me out.
Speaker 2: I have the same esthetic comment about this helment as
Speaker 2: I do with a death stroke helmet and arrow like that.
Speaker 2: The the second one, I'm like, these look kind of plastic,
Speaker 2: like because you look at look at the one in Constantine,
Speaker 2: the TV show Constantine.
Speaker 1: I have a picture of myself holding the Constantine helmet.
Speaker 2: It looks fantastic. It's like shining now I think I
Speaker 2: know it was.
Speaker 1: Super shiny, and I was like, I'm chloeing out exactly.
Speaker 2: I think what it is is they're looking out for
Speaker 2: reflections and if you really did like a shiny reflective
Speaker 2: Doctor Fate helmet, you see the camera. But I'm like,
Speaker 2: maybe use a different code of paint, Like I hate
Speaker 2: to be like that guy. I'm like, don't it looks
Speaker 2: so plastic?
Speaker 1: So that was a great shot in the opening titles.
Speaker 2: Though, yes, of her putting on this the fan, and
Speaker 2: it ties together with I don't think they mint it
Speaker 2: this way back in Absolute Justice for Doctor Fates, like
Speaker 2: you walk the same path as me, Chloe sold and
Speaker 2: then they're like they find that line and they're like,
Speaker 2: all right, let's use that, and now she's gonna put
Speaker 2: on the Fate helmet, which is it's funny because you know,
Speaker 2: when we're talking about these episodes and we rewatch them,
Speaker 2: like why didn't so and so just use that and whatever? Right,
Speaker 2: It's like, you got a magic helmet and you're trying
Speaker 2: to find somebody, wouldn't you put on the magic helmet
Speaker 2: and try to find him? And that's exactly what she does.
Speaker 2: So it actually doesn't make a lot of sense, right, And.
Speaker 1: You know, we're talking about what they could have done
Speaker 1: with Chloe if they had out had Alison for more episodes,
Speaker 1: they could have had her become the new Doctor Fate.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is a mantle that gets passed on in
Speaker 2: the comics, and so you know, if you're gonna these
Speaker 2: all these characters get combined and stuff, So sure, why not?
Speaker 1: Why not?
Speaker 2: I thought that would have been cool. That would have
Speaker 2: been really cool for her. Actually, yeah, so then we, uh,
Speaker 2: she puts on the helmet and presumably sees the Oliver
Speaker 2: is and she sees shees a whole lot of stuff, right,
Speaker 2: and then Clark finds her and she's knocked out because
Speaker 2: the power of the I like how it's like, look,
Speaker 2: you can't do this all the time. You gotta respect
Speaker 2: the power of this helmet. So it's too much for
Speaker 2: any mere mortal to take on because it drove doctor
Speaker 2: the original Doc Fait crazy. Right, So we cut to
Speaker 2: Oliver getting Casino Roalde here huh.
Speaker 1: Or alias that's what I thought of, just getting beaten up,
Speaker 1: and good old Rick Flagg, good old Rick Flagg. You know,
Speaker 1: I'll just remind Rick Flagg he's gonna have some fun
Speaker 1: with the Peacemaker.
Speaker 2: Someday, That's right, But hey, shirtless Oliver plus one, Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: any excuse to cot Justin's Hartley shirtless the show finds it.
Speaker 2: It's just lucky for him he didn't have the Steven
Speaker 2: Emel scars and the tattoos and all that. He could
Speaker 2: just be beautiful guy, even though he got pretty scarred
Speaker 2: up by Zod last season. But we just he's got
Speaker 2: good plastic surgeons, so what we'll say that he visioned
Speaker 2: the z in his chest. But yeah, the Suicide Squad
Speaker 2: is after the Justice League, and Oliver's arguing that, hey,
Speaker 2: we're trying to save the world, not the bad guys here.
Speaker 2: And this feels like an extension of like Checkmate for
Speaker 2: kind of from last season and kind of like I
Speaker 2: think the reason I didn't like this as much this
Speaker 2: season because I'm like, you had Amanda Waller and Pam
Speaker 2: Greer do all this last season, and I like that
Speaker 2: a lot better. And I think that's what the boy
Speaker 2: that comes up a little little short for me in comparison.
Speaker 1: Craig, I agree, Yeah, I I like their aspects of
Speaker 1: season ten that I really wasn't a fan of and
Speaker 1: the whole suicide squad aspect is definitely one of them.
Speaker 1: It's like, I guess they're kind of there to show
Speaker 1: Clark more of the darkness in the world. Maybe a
Speaker 1: little bit, but yeah, I was not a fan.
Speaker 2: So Olivers getting electrocuted and they're charging him all this,
Speaker 2: and we cut away and we cut to a to
Speaker 2: a lab somewhere. Craig and Tess Mercer wakes up and
Speaker 2: she has this patch of flesh on her face and
Speaker 2: where her face had been, you know, burned off by
Speaker 2: Zod right, and she had, you know, died last time
Speaker 2: we saw her. She died.
Speaker 1: H I have a few questions.
Speaker 2: Let's let's hear him.
Speaker 1: Wasn't half of her body burned instead of just her face.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm just gonna say that that gou has been
Speaker 2: on her body for a while and it's just been evaporating.
Speaker 2: And she wakes up at the very end of the
Speaker 2: process and it's the last piece she pulls off and
Speaker 2: she's fine.
Speaker 1: See, And I think her hair is still beautiful.
Speaker 2: She looks great. I think I've fallen in love with
Speaker 2: Cassidy Freeman rewatching this show. I think tests is great.
Speaker 2: Cassidy is great, and I see her praises all the
Speaker 2: time on this podcast, but it's like, what a what
Speaker 2: a U? What A what a task to fill in
Speaker 2: for Michael rosemms like Luthor and she she took this
Speaker 2: and ran with it.
Speaker 1: Huh, Yeah she did, and I really appreciate. I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna swollow people food who don't know, but I feel
Speaker 1: like season ten is when they finally figured out Tests.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no doubting that.
Speaker 1: Some of those things they later revealed about Tests are
Speaker 1: kind of hinted that in this episode one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: I was thinking of that too. I was thinking. I
Speaker 2: was thinking to myself, you know, in season seven, we're
Speaker 2: obviously Veritas is the greatest retcon of all time. But
Speaker 2: I always thought to myself, Oh, they probably switched out
Speaker 2: the window between season six and seven. No, they didn't, Craig.
Speaker 2: They switched out the window like in Traveler, which is
Speaker 2: like an episode before. It's just unacceptable at recon this. However,
Speaker 2: I think they did figure out who Test was and
Speaker 2: what they were doing with her where they wanted to
Speaker 2: go with her at the beginning of the season or
Speaker 2: in between the seasons, because why she is here and
Speaker 2: how she has healed all that tracks knowing what we know,
Speaker 2: so right, Also, I guess Granny Goodness just brought her
Speaker 2: here and act she died.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know, I'm pretty sure we've talked about
Speaker 1: it before that in Absolute Justice, they were gonna reveal
Speaker 1: that she was Cameron chased from the d out.
Speaker 2: No, I don't think we haven't talked about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was in Jeff John's original script for the
Speaker 1: episode called Society.
Speaker 2: Jeff Johnson never told me he was on this podcast
Speaker 2: and never.
Speaker 1: Told me that it was in the script where Amanda
Speaker 1: Waller calls her by her real name, and that was
Speaker 1: going to be her connection to Checkmate and all that.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm glad they didn't do that. I think they
Speaker 2: did because.
Speaker 1: This gave her a personal connection to the characters in
Speaker 1: the final season, especially to Lex obviously, and you know
Speaker 1: Lionel when we see.
Speaker 2: Him, Yeah, and Clark Luthor and we see him.
Speaker 1: Connected him.
Speaker 2: Oh, but she's a you know, she's she uh is
Speaker 2: in this lab and she gets a lab code and
Speaker 2: she finds like an ID tag in it, and she
Speaker 2: starts just you know, opening doors and stuff, and she
Speaker 2: comes to this room of all these tubes and it's
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my god, they're going to do it, right,
Speaker 2: because because in the com books as a president for
Speaker 2: Lex and resurrecting himself. I'm like, they're doing they're leaning
Speaker 2: so much into this comic mythology. And we see like
Speaker 2: these these weird bodies and tubes and then like like
Speaker 2: she like looks in one of them, this weird like
Speaker 2: deformed one comes up to the window and it's like
Speaker 2: a big jump scare and all that. I'm like, Oh,
Speaker 2: they're doing the clone Lex thing. That's so exciting.
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. A question I have is this the first
Speaker 1: time we saw Jacob Davis's young Legs.
Speaker 2: You know, I look this up and yes, this is
Speaker 2: the only time we see him. Uh so, you know,
Speaker 2: small and later this season it does the same thing.
Speaker 2: It has a good tracker of bringing back the young actors,
Speaker 2: like for the continuity of the characters. Right, But at
Speaker 2: this point, if we're going because they wanted to go
Speaker 2: for a really young Lex here, yeah, they had to
Speaker 2: go younger because everybody else was too old. You know,
Speaker 2: all the other younger Legs actors are too old.
Speaker 1: That kid ended up being like Pinocchio on Once upon
Speaker 1: a Time. Wow, okay, but yeah, I just wasn't sure
Speaker 1: if we had seen him in like a flashback in
Speaker 1: season nine or something. No.
Speaker 2: He he also was in an episode of Fringe. He
Speaker 2: played little Boy, whichever episode that was.
Speaker 1: But it's like, at I don't know if you I
Speaker 1: really liked the tests in Alexander's story because it gave
Speaker 1: Tests kind of more of a purpose other than you know,
Speaker 1: living up to running Luther Corp. Or whatever. It was like,
Speaker 1: I'm taking care of this child because I wasn't taken care.
Speaker 2: Of Yeah, it was interesting. I you know, I'll say
Speaker 2: it from the last scene because I remember some stuff
Speaker 2: that was being said on the Internet, which I kind
Speaker 2: of like, oh, that would have been interesting.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: We see her looking at these tubes and then uh,
Speaker 2: this little kid comes up and she's like, oh, what's
Speaker 2: your name. He's like Alexander. She's like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: you're him, and you're like, oh, it's a lax. It's
Speaker 2: so cool. She figures out like, oh, you're all engineered
Speaker 2: from lex DNA and they call it the call Lex
Speaker 2: the Creator. You know. It's it's like very weird thing
Speaker 2: going on here, like there are my brothers and he
Speaker 2: holds his hand up in the and one of the
Speaker 2: weird mutant ones hold his hand up to the glass.
Speaker 2: It's just it's weird stuff and I like it. I
Speaker 2: like it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like creepy body hortor almost Yeah.
Speaker 2: Exactly, because there's there's different levels of deformity in these tubes. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, like even Alexander was like missing some of his
Speaker 1: skin because it wasn't that used to help task.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because because he's like, we were we were made
Speaker 2: to heal the Creator the way we healed you. And
Speaker 2: he pulls up his shirt and like they had taken
Speaker 2: some of his skin and grafted on her hair and
Speaker 2: this is Look, they know that they're in this ridiculous
Speaker 2: place with a lex Luther character. They're like, well, we
Speaker 2: blow up in a truck and he was injured. So
Speaker 2: they're like, well just lean into that. And they're using
Speaker 2: these clones and body parts and I'm like, hey, good
Speaker 2: for y'all for leaning into this continuity.
Speaker 1: And I know on the DVD commentary they mentioned that
Speaker 1: the set that they used for Cadmus was very small,
Speaker 1: so it's probably difficult to shoot in, so but that
Speaker 1: made it look more full weirdly enough.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, because it was in some BIGINTI warehouse. It
Speaker 2: was like, oh, this could go on forever, right, because
Speaker 2: you don't know how many Lex clones there are, right.
Speaker 1: But I noticed there's a numbering scheme there is.
Speaker 2: There's like a thirteen and a fifteen. And then so
Speaker 2: so Test here's this banging behind a door, right, and
Speaker 2: she's like, oh, let me go open up another door.
Speaker 2: And then little Alexander's like, no, let's keep the bad one.
Speaker 2: And then this Lex pops out and it's this little
Speaker 2: reaction shot of the one of the mutant clone Lexes
Speaker 2: in the tube, like his eyes get real big, like
Speaker 2: even he knows that, Oh no, they opened the bad door.
Speaker 2: I thought that was a good little touch there.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And this this really insane looking bald Mackensey gray pops
Speaker 2: out and just starts attacking Tests and and it's interesting
Speaker 2: because this is the first scene between Lex Luther and
Speaker 2: Test Mercer on the show Craig give you think about.
Speaker 1: It, it is and also like it's kind of weird
Speaker 1: to watch now fourteen years later, because like, we know
Speaker 1: what Michael Rose's mom looks like when he gets a
Speaker 1: little bit older. Yeah, and it's not that.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, they're like, they say, I've misremembered. I thought
Speaker 2: he was like, oh, he's gotta be like forty years older.
Speaker 2: But she tells Clark later like, oh, he's like twenty
Speaker 2: years older. I'm like, you know what, Yeah, you don't
Speaker 2: look that different between thirty and fifty. I hate to
Speaker 2: break a deal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, Like Michael still looks good.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: So in theory, this would have been Michael rosebaumb here
Speaker 2: if they.
Speaker 1: Got it back, and that would have been amazing. I mean,
Speaker 1: you could even make the argument. I'm not saying they
Speaker 1: should have done it, but if Michael said I don't
Speaker 1: want to shave my head, who says this clone couldn't
Speaker 1: have hair.
Speaker 2: Or do the ball capolic they did in the finale,
Speaker 2: But there were ways around it. But I suspect. I
Speaker 2: suspect his reasons were not returning were financial, or it
Speaker 2: could have been the aspect that I said about him
Speaker 2: having pain yeah, also true, or.
Speaker 1: Not knowing, like maybe he could have figured if I
Speaker 1: come back for the first one, they're gonna ask me
Speaker 1: back again and again and again. And he wanted to
Speaker 1: save that. So I'm so glad he like I said,
Speaker 1: I'm so glad he eventually came back, but this would
Speaker 1: have been really good with him. I don't think Mackenzie
Speaker 1: Grig was terrible, but I do think John Cryer was
Speaker 1: a better standing lens.
Speaker 2: That's a good point. Yeah, Christ Center for Nurse. Yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 2: old friend.
Speaker 1: Right, Oh, I did like how in this is probably
Speaker 1: getting ahead of ourselves. But there are a couple of
Speaker 1: times where Mackenzie Graye did that thing where he's speaking
Speaker 1: with his back turn to somebody.
Speaker 2: He does that, and he does the he does like
Speaker 2: the forearm raised. It's like a go to move by
Speaker 2: Rosenmom when he when he's like he just raises his
Speaker 2: forearms and he's talking. So I obviously he's studied a
Speaker 2: little bit of of who of who he's great, so
Speaker 2: I feel the same way. I'm like, he's not bad,
Speaker 2: but he's not Michael. There's only one Michael. There can
Speaker 2: be only one likes Luthor as the lex says.
Speaker 1: But honestly, like Michael is the best, like slipper across
Speaker 1: like anything that agreed.
Speaker 2: So an univitable task for McKenzie. But good on McKenzie
Speaker 2: ray for shaving his head and giving it is all
Speaker 2: here like he's given it as all he's trying his
Speaker 2: best and uh he we establish here because he knows
Speaker 2: Tests and she's like, how do you know me? He's like,
Speaker 2: I have all Lex's memories and all his emotions. Right,
Speaker 2: So it's that shows you that, like they these aren't
Speaker 2: just you know, clones their blank slate. They remember all.
Speaker 2: I don't know how the cloning works.
Speaker 1: Wait, so that implies that Lex knew about Tests existing.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, of course that's what he says in the finale,
Speaker 2: He's like, why do you think I recruited you?
Speaker 1: And oh yeah, and then there was that whole thing
Speaker 1: about oh I loved you.
Speaker 2: That's before they knew.
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, that was the moment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. So but you know, uh, Test tells
Speaker 2: the Lexaner to hide, and then McKinsey Gary Lex he
Speaker 2: destroys all the other Lex Luthor cloneses like there canna
Speaker 2: only be one Lex Luthor and he burns everything, everything down,
Speaker 2: and that see here's here's my question here then, right,
Speaker 2: Like I guess part of the plot of this episode
Speaker 2: is and I don't know if this they did is
Speaker 2: before after Mikeroro's mom wasn't gonna be in it, but
Speaker 2: like this clone still would have been like rapidly aging, right,
Speaker 2: because like they only I feel like they only did
Speaker 2: that to recast. But I don't know, there's I don't know,
Speaker 2: who knows. Maybe he wouldn't have died I think at
Speaker 2: the end. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I do think the original intention was for Lex to
Speaker 1: age op, up, up, up until he's Michael, and that
Speaker 1: gave him the opportunity like bring back Connor, Stanhope.
Speaker 2: Everybody, Yeah, yeah, yil So so here's yeah, so so
Speaker 2: I guess it in their perfect world, micro Rosemond is
Speaker 2: here in this episode as this likes to give you
Speaker 2: that little bit of taste or hey remember here he is.
Speaker 1: He's back, and maybe that likes would theoretically age up and.
Speaker 2: He'll die yeah at the end. Yeah, and then this
Speaker 2: and then it's starts Yourek three search respox situation with
Speaker 2: this little Lex and he gets older and older, you know,
Speaker 2: and he eventually he's literalty boy at the end. So yeah,
Speaker 2: we'll go with that, you know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: So but hey, uh you mentioned before doctor Hamilton's back.
Speaker 2: They're at the Watchtower or doctor Hamilton is scurrying to
Speaker 2: see what's wrong with Chloe, and like should have given
Speaker 2: him a thirteen episode contract or something.
Speaker 1: But also, why didn't he come help her at the
Speaker 1: JSA Brownstone or something? Like? Did Clark really just carry
Speaker 1: Chloe's body all the way to the watchtower?
Speaker 2: Yeah, not only should you not move an unconscious body,
Speaker 2: shouldn't super speed an unconscious body. Clark, I mean they
Speaker 2: I would say, well, they didn't have the set, but
Speaker 2: they did have the set because she was there.
Speaker 1: He did his a little Superman aura to protect her
Speaker 1: or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and nobody's home like Carter Hall's in Africa, as
Speaker 2: we discovered, So like it's a lit been fine for
Speaker 2: them to be that, is it. I guess they wanted
Speaker 2: her run a hospital bed and all that stuff. So there,
Speaker 2: but yeah, she wakes up and she's like, oh right,
Speaker 2: She's like, oh Clark, I saw, I saw it all.
Speaker 2: And you know, she tells Clark what she did, and
Speaker 2: she was like for Oliver, her and all this stuff,
Speaker 2: and Clark, I saw you and you were the world
Speaker 2: heroo and you weren't wearing black, so I us, I
Speaker 2: guess he couldn't wear that trench coat anymore.
Speaker 1: No, She's like, I saw, now you still didn't put
Speaker 1: on the.
Speaker 2: Cost I saw you and you were cgi.
Speaker 1: Clark. You in the future, you gave up your powers.
Speaker 1: You're wearing flannel, You're wearing funnel again.
Speaker 2: So this is another one of those misdirects by Chloe.
Speaker 2: She's like, oh, Clark, I saw fire and I think
Speaker 2: Cadma's labs in trouble. You should go. He's like, oh, okay,
Speaker 2: he super speeds off when you stay on. Chloe, She's like, goodbye, Clark,
Speaker 2: And this is her knowing that she's not gonna see
Speaker 2: him again, at least for a while until they all
Speaker 2: entered the Matrix, right Craig. Anyway, earlier, in that cute
Speaker 2: scene between Lois and Clark and the Archives, Lows is like, hey,
Speaker 2: you know, we need to talk and Clark's like yeah,
Speaker 2: and she says, meet you in the barn later, and
Speaker 2: Clark's like, yeah, I'll see you there. I'll be there.
Speaker 2: So Lois is in the barn waiting to talk to Clark.
Speaker 2: That's why she's there, and she's looking at a nice
Speaker 2: picture of her and Clark, which I don't know where
Speaker 2: that picture came from. I always give them credit when
Speaker 2: they like, take a new picture instead of some promo
Speaker 2: shot from season four can you imagine she was looking one?
Speaker 2: Can you imagine she's looking at a shot of like him,
Speaker 2: like asleep in that like dirt field hit her lap?
Speaker 2: Those are some weird promos. Speaking of those shots, Greg,
Speaker 2: I remember I thought it was fan art right when
Speaker 2: it first came out, But there was some official CW
Speaker 2: like promotional stuff for season ten using that season four
Speaker 2: photo shoot of Clark and Lowis like in the fielding,
Speaker 2: like what are you doing that with the s on
Speaker 2: his chest? You know, I thought it was fan art,
Speaker 2: but no, I'm like, come on, c W. Yeah, the
Speaker 2: budget was that low they couldn't even afford you.
Speaker 1: Well, I have a poster somewhere for the final season.
Speaker 1: It's got like a light blue background. You've probably seen it,
Speaker 1: and it's like Tom wearing like a suit and tie
Speaker 1: I think from the season eight for most suit, but
Speaker 1: he has a shadow. The shadow is totally Brandon Routh.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's the that's the cover of the of the
Speaker 2: DVDs in the blue rays is this is this is
Speaker 2: absolutely Brandon Ralph.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's not even what I was talking.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm holding up my box now, but.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, we can't see it. But no, like.
Speaker 2: It's like the Anakin Skywalkers episode one post, right, I
Speaker 2: understand what you mean.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but no, the one that I saw, it's like
Speaker 1: he's in the middle and there's like a reflection of
Speaker 1: the Superman costume underneath.
Speaker 2: I think I might have seen that, but yeah, it's
Speaker 2: just yeah, yeah, Brandon Ralph through and through it. So yeah, anyway,
Speaker 2: Lois Is, you know, she's in the loftier and she
Speaker 2: sees that box. Because let's not forget this is the
Speaker 2: next day after Salvation saw this. It makes sense that
Speaker 2: the Martha left the note in the box and still
Speaker 2: be there. So Lois goes up to the box and
Speaker 2: opens it up, and it's speaking of Brandon, he Earth Craig.
Speaker 2: It's the Superman Returns.
Speaker 1: Costume, which they clearly were not allowed to touch too much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what's interesting to me is and this is a
Speaker 2: fantastic change because I've always I'm not the biggest fan
Speaker 2: of that Superman Returns costume.
Speaker 1: I always read.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I criticized the cape. I call it a fruit
Speaker 2: roll up cape because it's this weird, rubbery, weird thing
Speaker 2: and like immediately improved by the proper cloth or red cape.
Speaker 1: Right, Yes, agreed, completely but like I said earlier when
Speaker 1: we were recording this podcast, it's like there was a
Speaker 1: time when Lois would have just seen that and started
Speaker 1: laughing at how ridiculous it looked. But it also is
Speaker 1: just interesting, like to think about what Lois must have
Speaker 1: been thinking when she saw that, Like does she ever
Speaker 1: ask Clark later, like why didn't you put on that suit?
Speaker 3: Ye? Know?
Speaker 2: What happened to that suit? And that that's why that
Speaker 2: car ride in Harvest. I'm like, I want to hear
Speaker 2: the whole thing where she asked him every possible conceivable question, like, hey,
Speaker 2: what happened to that suit? Like I don't know, my
Speaker 2: alien dad zapped it away? And I like, wouldn't Clark
Speaker 2: just called Martha? I'm like, mom, can you make another one?
Speaker 2: Jarrell took away your costume.
Speaker 1: Costume this time?
Speaker 2: Oh that's great, that's a top. That's a top. Now,
Speaker 2: so we see the Superman Returns costume here, right, we've
Speaker 2: seen the Superman Returns S on Smallville before. They've kind
Speaker 2: of like it's so funny because at this point Superman
Speaker 2: Returns is so far in the rear view mirror. This
Speaker 2: is like four years later, and yet it's still like
Speaker 2: hanging around the show, like, uh, so you see this,
Speaker 2: what do you think, like, just remove yourself from even
Speaker 2: your insider knowledge anything you know about anybody and he
Speaker 2: writes any actors.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: You see the Superman Returns costume here in the first
Speaker 2: episode of season ten, Do you think he's gonna wear
Speaker 2: that super Returns costume?
Speaker 1: I did think that's what he would. I mean, I
Speaker 1: would assume so, since that was the costume we saw.
Speaker 1: But what I find interesting is that at the same
Speaker 1: time we had that, we had his first the black
Speaker 1: plar suit, which had a more traditional ass or like
Speaker 1: when the S's were all over town, and then the
Speaker 1: jacket is like the Christopher Reeves shaped ass hmm.
Speaker 2: Was the sign of the S's. They're all different.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think it was more of a matter
Speaker 1: of what was convenient to them to have at the time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And they were able to get the Wrath suit. I mean,
Speaker 1: on the same note, crisis, the main reason they gave
Speaker 1: him the Kingdom Come suit is because they weren't allowed
Speaker 1: to use the Superman Returned suit for some reason.
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, that's ridiculous, but those are the
Speaker 2: rules that the WB makes apparently, but also thank God, because
Speaker 2: that arguably might be the best costs.
Speaker 1: I think that's my favorite action Superman so.
Speaker 2: Out of that of the Christopher Reeve original one, just
Speaker 2: because that is the costume, and then the Fleisher got
Speaker 2: costume is right there. Yeah, I think I think you would.
Speaker 2: I agree about the top three suits.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the Fleischer costume, like on Superman and Lois. When
Speaker 1: I see the Fleischer costume, that's when I most feel
Speaker 1: like I'm watching Superman.
Speaker 2: Right, why can't that be the main costume on that show?
Speaker 1: Exactly that I'm not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this this costume is in this box and
Speaker 2: then we see it again at three end of the
Speaker 2: episode and you're like, look, it's the first episode. There's
Speaker 2: no way they would tease that.
Speaker 1: Well, they teach at the end of the previous season.
Speaker 2: Well with a different looking s in his reflection. More's
Speaker 2: so funny.
Speaker 1: It's just.
Speaker 2: Nothing correlates. The shade of the s is different than
Speaker 2: the shade of the cave. But it's we were just
Speaker 2: out of our minds and the show there was no flights,
Speaker 2: no tights. We see this costume. It was an incredible moment.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I wouldn't ask you. Yeah, like earlier, we
Speaker 1: were talking about the trailer that they showed at common Com.
Speaker 1: Didn't they show that shot of Lois finding a top?
Speaker 2: I believe this shot was in there, and people like
Speaker 2: people lost their mind because it's it's a Superman costume,
Speaker 2: Like we never thought we'd see the day.
Speaker 1: You know, we thought we're gonna get more of it
Speaker 1: at the end.
Speaker 2: But yeah, we thought for sure it's there. It is
Speaker 2: and the fortress and then you know, you know what's
Speaker 2: so interesting too is when ghost Dad Jonathan hands him
Speaker 2: the suit in the scene where this podcast gets his
Speaker 2: name always sold the small Villa Son, It's a different suit.
Speaker 2: It's not this suit.
Speaker 1: I didn't even notice that.
Speaker 2: It's it's the I didn't notice it for years, Craig.
Speaker 2: But but like it's it's this. It has no texture,
Speaker 2: it's a very flat s it's very strange.
Speaker 1: Nobody was allowed to handle it well, like.
Speaker 2: But it's wrapped in a cape, so you think, like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's it's strange to me.
Speaker 1: But beyond that, I also did not realize until I
Speaker 1: think Tom said it on top Fill or something, that
Speaker 1: the shot of him ripping up in the shirt he
Speaker 1: did not have a Superman suit under me.
Speaker 2: I have seen that, and that's correct. That is a
Speaker 2: T shirt with an S taste on it underneath a
Speaker 2: dress shirt and a I'm like there, it is terrible.
Speaker 2: I'm sure you. I and a lot of our listeners
Speaker 2: have warned more of a Superman costume than Tom has.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, I keep telling you, like
Speaker 1: I keep saying on Twitter, is like, if Michael and
Speaker 1: Tom want to get money for their Patreon, if we
Speaker 1: give a certain amount, we'll Tom put on the suit
Speaker 1: for us.
Speaker 2: I want to see Tom put on a costume and
Speaker 2: Michael shaved his head for the last episode of Tom Phil.
Speaker 2: What level of patron level do we need?
Speaker 1: Yeah, what level of patren do we need to be?
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm broke, but I would pay for that.
Speaker 2: I'll cover you, Craig, I'll cover you for that one.
Speaker 2: But hey, it's we're in season ten people. We have
Speaker 2: a Superman costume, all right, So amazing stuff. Lois is
Speaker 2: a great line, so much better in technicolor, right, because
Speaker 2: it's not black anymore. He's he's the world's serial and
Speaker 2: he's not wearing black. But she hears, she hears somebody
Speaker 2: coming up the steps. Right, She's oh, let me put
Speaker 2: it all Let me put it all back, and she's like, hey,
Speaker 2: I was beginning, you think you were. Boom immediately gets
Speaker 2: in the face and it's uh, it's Lex and he's like,
Speaker 2: when I missed it for the world. And I can't
Speaker 2: help but look at this. It's like when they it's
Speaker 2: like when they recast any character anywhere, I can't help
Speaker 2: but watch and me like, what would this be like
Speaker 2: with the original actor or the intended actor? And it's like,
Speaker 2: I can I can hear how Rosamon would have said
Speaker 2: all these things and have been so much better. No
Speaker 2: offense to McKinsey gray, but you know what I'm saying, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, it's completely It's just he had a certain delivery.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, this is a small Ville podcast.
Speaker 1: I don't think we can say enough good stuff about
Speaker 1: Michael's performance.
Speaker 2: Right, And it's it kind of shows you it's an
Speaker 2: interesting experiment. It kind of shows you like, yeah, what
Speaker 2: if he didn't cast someone as good as Lex, it
Speaker 2: would have been it would have just felt kind of flat,
Speaker 2: like he brought so much to it, and it's this
Speaker 2: intangibleness and anyway.
Speaker 1: Well, I feel like small Bell got very lucky with
Speaker 1: certain casting choices. Like this is another thing that came
Speaker 1: up on Talkville a couple months ago when they had
Speaker 1: Erica on and she was talking about how she was
Speaker 1: so nervous when she first came on as low as Slane,
Speaker 1: but that makes it even more impressive, how like from
Speaker 1: the first frame she just was like completely ingrained in
Speaker 1: the series and fitting in. And I don't think we
Speaker 1: could picture a different Lois in that show. And I
Speaker 1: think Michael was a similar situation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, same thing with Tom. Honestly, I mean, we all
Speaker 2: love Jensen Ackles, but I don't think he would have
Speaker 2: been the same Clark that Tom would have been.
Speaker 1: He wouldn't have been as relatable.
Speaker 2: But I think he might have put on a Superman costume.
Speaker 2: But let's move on.
Speaker 1: Now. I'm just picturing Jensen Ackles in a Superman costume
Speaker 1: having a potty mouth like he had on The Boys.
Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah, he clearly has no version of wearing
Speaker 2: superhote costumes.
Speaker 1: Yeah. True, Clark has.
Speaker 2: Arrived at Cabin's Labs. He's going through all the wreckage, right,
Speaker 2: a bunch of dead, dead, charred bodies. He's picking up
Speaker 2: like LX thirteen and all these labels, right, and and
Speaker 2: he finds Tests and I like how Clark goes up
Speaker 2: there and he's about to like cause Test is like
Speaker 2: tied up somewhere and he's about to set her free,
Speaker 2: and then he's like wait, He's like wait a minute.
Speaker 2: Everybody's here's dead except for you. Like what's going on here? Right?
Speaker 2: This is a good a good scene between them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like they weren't completely allies yet they're still
Speaker 1: which they're not. Yeah, yeah, they're still kind of thawing
Speaker 1: out with each other. Like I feel like by the
Speaker 1: end of the series, things are good, but you know,
Speaker 1: they got to carry Oky together and everything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. But she explains like, hey, look, I don't
Speaker 2: know what happened when I woke up, I was healed.
Speaker 2: And he's like he did it Lex, you know, And
Speaker 2: she's like Clark, he's he must have been like twenty
Speaker 2: years older. Like sure, okay, that's.
Speaker 1: He's not as good of an actor as he used
Speaker 1: to be.
Speaker 2: Like I guess, I guess there's a hell, I guess
Speaker 2: that's there. It's the aging thing, because that's why it's
Speaker 2: not just like they could have gotten more like mutated.
Speaker 2: But that's weird, So like, I think the aging was
Speaker 2: probably the right choice, right, and so she explains it. No, no,
Speaker 2: the original legs. He planned to use these bodies, you know,
Speaker 2: to heal his own body, right, which is you know,
Speaker 2: part of the cobooks, right, so let's.
Speaker 1: But then his body went boom in requel.
Speaker 2: Yeah. See that's the thing, right, what is your I
Speaker 2: think the show wants us to believe that the Lex
Speaker 2: Zero from the series finale is this piece together Lex
Speaker 2: from all these clones. But I think in my heart
Speaker 2: I want to believe that's like the original Lex still.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean I would. Yeah, I never gave
Speaker 1: a lot of thought, but I I guess I was
Speaker 1: too distracted by the way they ended Lex's story in
Speaker 1: the show, annoying me. Yeah, that I didn't really put
Speaker 1: a lot of thought into like which Lex it is,
Speaker 1: but that does track. Yeah, he just didn't have a heart.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's why he's zero. He's like Lex Prime
Speaker 2: in the original Lex. And maybe that maybe that Lex
Speaker 2: in the truck was a clone. I mean, that's the
Speaker 2: great headcanon we all played.
Speaker 1: But anyway, oh yeah, that I think that might have
Speaker 1: been My thought actually, was that was the clone.
Speaker 2: That was well, what was so genius about the series finale,
Speaker 2: which you will hear me praise very infrequently. A genius
Speaker 2: thing they did, though, was they tied together Darth Legs
Speaker 2: with Michael because he takes that mask off and it's
Speaker 2: the mask that the darth Legs was wearing. I'm like, okay,
Speaker 2: look at you doing, doing what you can. Let you
Speaker 2: have small Bill.
Speaker 1: Well, they just wanted to have a good shot for
Speaker 1: the trailer. I give the falling off.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that. They They used every shot of room
Speaker 2: they could to promote that stuff. But Clark, Clark, he
Speaker 2: frees he freezed Tests and he's like, why did he
Speaker 2: leave you alive? Because he killed everybody else. And at
Speaker 2: this point we think, is the audience, oh, did he
Speaker 2: kill little Alexander? I don't know, right, Test keeping her
Speaker 2: secrets right, but Tess said he left uh, lex left
Speaker 2: her alive to send Clark a message that and that
Speaker 2: he said that you'd come see me, and when you
Speaker 2: did that, it was finally time for the two of
Speaker 2: you to face off. He's in Lawson's field, which I
Speaker 2: guess we're supposed to know who that is. That's apparently
Speaker 2: where they hang the Scarecrow every every year and Vel
Speaker 2: High School. So you know, Craig, we haven't seen this
Speaker 2: since season one, you know this carecrows. And I thought
Speaker 2: it was a missed opportunity in season four, if you're
Speaker 2: gonna have Clark play football, which I disagreed with frankly,
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I thought, you know, I thought, you
Speaker 2: know what, they handled it perfectly in season why he
Speaker 2: doesn't want to play football, but you know what they're
Speaker 2: doing it in season four? What can he do there?
Speaker 2: You should have an episode where he like stops this
Speaker 2: tradition and saying like, hey, we shouldn't do this, you know, right,
Speaker 2: But that's like it's it's right there. Like I feel
Speaker 2: like they should have done that. It's a missed opportunity.
Speaker 1: I feel like on the commentary, didn't they make a
Speaker 1: reference to possibly having the reunion being at Lowbridge from
Speaker 1: the pilot?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that would have made sense, but it had
Speaker 2: been too expensive.
Speaker 1: They really like Matt, well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, where I first see, well, yeah, that's the whole
Speaker 2: thing where you saved me, where I saved you? Right,
Speaker 2: So this is interesting here because and then you think about, like, okay,
Speaker 2: what if this is rosenbomb. It would have been a
Speaker 2: slightly different introduction because because Lex pops out and he's
Speaker 2: like quoting the Scarlet Letter, it's a classic. The dialogue
Speaker 2: here is a plus for Lex, like it's all tracks.
Speaker 2: Los Is like, way you know, Clerk, Like if it
Speaker 2: looked like Rosa mom, she would she would have known
Speaker 2: who he was, right, Sure, there is one fly in
Speaker 2: this ointment though, right this, Lex doesn't know anything about
Speaker 2: Clark and Lois? Right, how would he know to go kidnap?
Speaker 2: I guess she was at his bar and he's like, well,
Speaker 2: I guess he likes her now, But.
Speaker 1: I feel like there had to have been like articles
Speaker 1: or like there're semi famous reporters by this point sort of.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean if he he goes to the
Speaker 2: he goes to the barn, probably looking for Clark, right, yeah,
Speaker 2: he finds Lois there, he knocks her out and he's like, oh,
Speaker 2: look a picture here and this or that, you know
Speaker 2: five minutes.
Speaker 1: Scene where he tried to attack Lana and Lona was like,
Speaker 1: he's not even with me, He's with and that's how
Speaker 1: he found out.
Speaker 2: That's that's how that's what they pitched to. Kristen Kuric.
Speaker 2: Craig Yes, that's yeah, that was the scene. But no,
Speaker 2: but I love this. She's quote the Scarlet Letter and
Speaker 2: would that I might endure his agony as well as mine.
Speaker 2: I guess it's the S. I mean he paints it
Speaker 2: on her tank top. It's the imagery of the pilot
Speaker 2: coming back to this was genius.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely. Also just the notion that Clark and
Speaker 1: Lewis first kind of met in the cornfield.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was thinking that too, right, of the same
Speaker 2: kind of the environment. And of course he goes on
Speaker 2: to say the letter is a mark of shame because
Speaker 2: he you know, he doesn't like the S and he
Speaker 2: references saving Clark. I don't know. This is all just
Speaker 2: also really well done. Yeah, and then he he kind
Speaker 2: of lays out his dastardly plan, uh to lois that
Speaker 2: that he'll lose you and it'll break him and all
Speaker 2: he does was betray me. And it's it's it's great
Speaker 2: stuff here and and and you know it would have
Speaker 2: been a placid rosamm but it's probably like, you know,
Speaker 2: a minus with McKinsey gray. So he does say he's
Speaker 2: she's like, oh you look different. He's like, I've evolved.
Speaker 2: That's a relex thing to say, Oh absolutely, and he's
Speaker 2: like and with age comes wisdom and he just sets
Speaker 2: the whole place on fire. And he's like, because he
Speaker 2: says you were the greatest week, that's true. What could
Speaker 2: he like? Could John Glover had played clone Lex? He
Speaker 2: shaved his head, He's done it before. That would have
Speaker 2: been too confusing, way too.
Speaker 1: The reason we didn't see John Lover until the Luther's
Speaker 1: because he wasn't available.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean that was the perfect time to bring
Speaker 2: him back to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also he was dead but yeah, no, but
Speaker 1: I mean the real life explanation, I think he was
Speaker 1: doing a player around that time, but.
Speaker 2: That this is a really well directed sequence of just
Speaker 2: like Dutch angles and like especially when Lex is walking
Speaker 2: off and he throws the match down, like the match
Speaker 2: that lands on the lens of the camera and then
Speaker 2: you know it's just really it has a lot of
Speaker 2: a lot of style to it, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I remember there's so much speculation about this, these shots
Speaker 2: here between Clark and Lex because they were in the
Speaker 2: trailer and be like, who is that? He's some old
Speaker 2: ball guy in it next to a tree, but it's
Speaker 2: it's really well shot. He's like, where's the real Lex,
Speaker 2: and he says the creator died two years ago, so
Speaker 2: there's still referencing Requiem saying that that that Lex died
Speaker 2: and you know that that was gonna be the thing,
Speaker 2: and it may very well may be the thing. We
Speaker 2: don't know, so, but this is so cool to see.
Speaker 2: We haven't seen Clark and Lex haven't seen together since Arctic. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and that was kind of a last year was little disappointing,
Speaker 2: you know, we talked about it. But but it's so
Speaker 2: cool to see like this version of Clark, he's the
Speaker 2: blur now he's a superhero and lexis lexis still Lex,
Speaker 2: and he's like that that pride on your chest and
Speaker 2: he hates the s and all that, and like that's
Speaker 2: so Lex Luthor.
Speaker 1: It's so good evolved.
Speaker 2: They have both evolved. Yeah, oh and you're right talking
Speaker 2: about the Low Bridge and he's like, yeah, the bridge.
Speaker 2: You know, Lex with Di diet. I hadn't pulled him
Speaker 2: out of that car. He's like, and you never let
Speaker 2: me forget it. And again, these are all just I
Speaker 2: can just hear Rosenbom saying this, and it's it's so
Speaker 2: good time he dragged me the sure right, it's this
Speaker 2: this is the scene where he does the forum thing
Speaker 2: I'm talking about, Craig. It's a good This is.
Speaker 1: Gonna be another like Patreon bribe bribe that we're gonna
Speaker 1: have to give them, Like, can you film this scene
Speaker 1: so we can edited into it.
Speaker 2: We just we just need to scan Michael's face and
Speaker 2: just deep fake him in to the scene. But I
Speaker 2: love him hating the you know, that self righteous symbol
Speaker 2: and your pride and the darkness in your heart. And
Speaker 2: he's calling Clark out, and Clark kind of proves him
Speaker 2: right by trying to kill him, you know, yeah, but
Speaker 2: he you know, he compares them as brothers. Again, I
Speaker 2: don't know, like this, this is the heart of the show,
Speaker 2: these two guys, right, And even though Rosa Moom's on here,
Speaker 2: I applaud season ten for keeping the presence of Lex
Speaker 2: alive the whole time until we finally get him the
Speaker 2: last episode.
Speaker 1: Yes, I agree.
Speaker 2: Also, he's one hundred percent right because he's like, the
Speaker 2: only reason people call you a hero, it's since you're
Speaker 2: cleaning up the messages that you make. He's got. That's
Speaker 2: a lot of the seasons of the show.
Speaker 1: But Clark should know already, I mean from the second,
Speaker 1: like his meteors smashed Slana's parents or parent the one
Speaker 1: was still alive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh the gosh, oh my goodness, that was a
Speaker 2: long time ago. They don't even remember that character now
Speaker 2: that I don't know who they forgot worse, Henry Small
Speaker 2: or Gabe Sullivan.
Speaker 1: So well, you know, they talked about at Christian reasonly
Speaker 1: and recently did a convention and she talked about how
Speaker 1: she liked working with Patrick Cassidy, which I thought was
Speaker 1: amusing because we don't really we hadn't really heard those stories.
Speaker 1: But what was the other one that you said Gabe
Speaker 1: Sullivan gave SolV that was that was another one where
Speaker 1: I remember asking, like, I don't want to name names,
Speaker 1: and if any smallvill writers are listening to this, I
Speaker 1: promise I'm not going to out you. But I remember
Speaker 1: the beginning of season eight they were preparing they were
Speaker 1: currently I was at the premiere party they were currently
Speaker 1: writing Bride, and I said, is Chloe's dad going to
Speaker 1: be there? And they go, I thought he was dead?
Speaker 2: Yeah they should Honestly, Craig, they should have just killed
Speaker 2: him and gone or you know when or you know,
Speaker 2: the beginning season four, like oh, Chloe made it out,
Speaker 2: but Gabe didn't problem because that's the last time we
Speaker 2: see him anyway.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there are things that the actors sometimes forget,
Speaker 1: Like I remember so when I was on set for
Speaker 1: Promise doing interviews for my season four book, and I
Speaker 1: remember one of the questions asked, oh something. It was
Speaker 1: like like, why wasn't there a scene where Lana found
Speaker 1: out that Chloe was still alive? And Allison did not
Speaker 1: remember filming it? And then I'm watching the season for
Speaker 1: DVD and it's the three of them and it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: that happens. So sometimes the actors forget too, I guess, speaking.
Speaker 2: Of deleted scenes, like I wish and I'm Superman, Lois
Speaker 2: the first season did this for their extra long presentations.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I wish, like, and again, this is work and
Speaker 2: they don't want to pay people and the return on
Speaker 2: investment is solow. But I wish they were like releast
Speaker 2: extended episodes of Smallville because there's a lot of these
Speaker 2: episodes have so many deleted scenes that are like add
Speaker 2: to the plot, you know, like really enhance the story.
Speaker 1: Well, I remember when they first started doing the complete
Speaker 1: series DVD set. I remember I suggested to somebody, you
Speaker 1: should just edit together the original Veritas.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh man, that was so good.
Speaker 1: But you know, even if it's unfinished, people would understand.
Speaker 2: It's like the Donner cut of The Man too. People
Speaker 2: that understand.
Speaker 1: I think that again, I think it's a thing where
Speaker 1: it would be like having to pay people for another
Speaker 1: episode that didn't accept that.
Speaker 2: That's why they whenever they do stuff like that, that
Speaker 2: have to list it it's a special feature, right, because
Speaker 2: they're trying to cover it. And I get the legality
Speaker 2: of it, but it.
Speaker 1: Just which it's unfortunate because I mean, especially in the
Speaker 1: case of the Veritas things, since we saw flashback to it,
Speaker 1: but which they just talked about on.
Speaker 2: Top Film, Like, yeah, that was that was crazy. Like
Speaker 2: I thought that for years, and now going to conventions
Speaker 2: and seeing talk film, Michael has slowly revealed that they
Speaker 2: did fill him out there in this in the Snow
Speaker 2: and we're all like, where did this comment? Like it
Speaker 2: explains I guess they just they just did. They want
Speaker 2: to cover their bases and they're like, we'll put every
Speaker 2: character here and we're gonna be out here, and it
Speaker 2: makes sense. But that was that was so interesting to
Speaker 2: me to finally hear him confirm where that even came from,
Speaker 2: because it's interesting. Is we so many comment I'm sure
Speaker 2: we've mentioned this before, but it was like in one
Speaker 2: of the promos for I think it was Sleeper in
Speaker 2: season seven, they show footage of Lax in a parka
Speaker 2: approaching the Forge, which would have been the last shot
Speaker 2: of season seven, as I understand it, the Veritie original
Speaker 2: Veritas version. Yes, and that's that's different than what we
Speaker 2: see in this series finale when is Mine gets a race,
Speaker 2: that's just a random shot Lex in the snow, which
Speaker 2: if you search Smallville Gift Hulu and Hulu you know
Speaker 2: first got the show that they had all these gifts.
Speaker 2: That's one of them. Insane of all the images, you
Speaker 2: can choose.
Speaker 1: Something that one of the Mackenzie grayles excitedly.
Speaker 2: Anyway, Anyway, when Lex gets his memory race, he doesn't
Speaker 2: remember any of this because it's totally Lax. So Lex's
Speaker 2: goating Clark, and Clark starts choking Lex as no straps
Speaker 2: arts to bleed and we've seen it bleed a little
Speaker 2: bit before, showing that he's like dying, you know, kind
Speaker 2: of shakes Clark out of his rage and he backs
Speaker 2: off and lex is like, don't fly to yourself, Clark,
Speaker 2: I'm dying, but it's not your fault. You know, the
Speaker 2: world will turn he gets in the Green Goblin speech, right,
Speaker 2: you know, like they'll turn against you eventually. And the
Speaker 2: one thing that people love more and than the heroes
Speaker 2: to say your hero fall. Right, So he's like, tomorrow
Speaker 2: the world will reject its heretic hero because he puts
Speaker 2: up this impossible choice, which is Superman in the movie,
Speaker 2: as he gives Superman lexive Superman like you, even it's
Speaker 2: your great speed, Superman, you can't dig these two things
Speaker 2: at once. So he says, you either the bombs rocking
Speaker 2: roof of the Daily Planet, it's gonna hit rush hour traffic,
Speaker 2: you know those twelve people in the street, or are
Speaker 2: you say the one we love? Like who's in a cornfield?
Speaker 2: And he's like, where is she? And it's interesting he says,
Speaker 2: it's where I first saved you, which is hey, true.
Speaker 1: But what what if he said? What if he said, well,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna kill the woman you love and Clark goes
Speaker 1: looking for Anna.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's it's like Aero season two where
Speaker 2: like they take the wrong person.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, totally.
Speaker 2: It's a good setup though. It's a great classic suitor plan.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's right up there with stealing ten piles.
Speaker 2: So yeah. And then and then you see this old
Speaker 2: clone Legs just die, you know, and Clark super speeds
Speaker 2: off and it's a it's interesting shot and it's it's creepy.
Speaker 2: You get a lot of creepy leg stuff in this episode.
Speaker 2: But then we see, uh, we see the Daily we
Speaker 2: see the explosion underneath the Daily Planet globe, and we
Speaker 2: see Clark running faster than ever has before, right, and uh,
Speaker 2: it's a very I mean, he can't fly yet, so
Speaker 2: it's a very flash like safe. He runs into the
Speaker 2: field and he just super speeds around putting out the fire.
Speaker 2: It's a really cool safe.
Speaker 1: He puts out the fire and do you have the
Speaker 1: flash pilot. He pretty much does that with a tornado
Speaker 1: guy Weather Wizard run, Clark run, Clark run.
Speaker 2: Like they spend just long enough we actually see him,
Speaker 2: you know, instead of just like a pun intended a blurb.
Speaker 2: But that that adds a lot to the same.
Speaker 1: I think it adds out to the save. But also
Speaker 1: like that they show the aftermath of just like the
Speaker 1: embers that are still out. I really liked what happens next,
Speaker 1: although there's the question of like, did he crush those
Speaker 1: people in that taxicab?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Oh, and when when Lewis wakes up, she's like, oh,
Speaker 2: get him because she knows Clark saved yeah her. And
Speaker 2: has anyone ever looked better in a tank top than
Speaker 2: Ergar Durant's in the scene. I think not, but.
Speaker 1: Terry Hatcher's loves Laye in the episode just say.
Speaker 2: No, I'll look it up after this. You're right, Solark
Speaker 2: is super speeding downtown. He jumps off his taxi and
Speaker 2: these two people get thrown like a hundred feet. Craig,
Speaker 2: You're absolutely right.
Speaker 1: No, But I was just gonna say before we get
Speaker 1: to that. With Terry Atchers, Lois, she had a similar
Speaker 1: reaction after she found out Clark was super Like they're
Speaker 1: arguing and then she's like, just go but you know,
Speaker 1: it's like it's the same kind of vibe of you
Speaker 1: just go get him. And so I thought that was
Speaker 1: a good callback. That is great.
Speaker 2: So you know, Clarky, he's he's breaking the all kinds
Speaker 2: of speed and sound very Zoo's flashing lights behind him
Speaker 2: as he runs, and as you said, he does this,
Speaker 2: like step up on this taxi and it blows like
Speaker 2: two people back like one hundred feet, Like, oh, that's
Speaker 2: gonna that's some collateral damage to those people.
Speaker 1: Oh well, I so I know there's some debate like
Speaker 1: did he fly or not in the scene. I think
Speaker 1: they said something about this on the comment I mean,
Speaker 1: they wouldn't confirm or deny on the commentary, but I'm
Speaker 1: going my head canon is that he did fly. It's
Speaker 1: just he didn't think about it, so therefore he could
Speaker 1: do it. It was like an adrenaline moment. And I agree,
Speaker 1: so I think he completely because how could he so
Speaker 1: perfectly carry that globe and not drop it and put
Speaker 1: it exactly the right.
Speaker 2: Spot because he's leaping a tall building in a single
Speaker 2: bound craig.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's more powerful than locomotive.
Speaker 2: File is that it faster than spinning bullet is what
Speaker 2: I heard. But I agree with you, I think, and
Speaker 2: I like the conceit of him not being able to
Speaker 2: fly as like this mental block because he sees him
Speaker 2: as a human right. That's and yes, we understand why
Speaker 2: they did that because the show rantieers, you can't have
Speaker 2: him flying, but like for a story, reason. I think
Speaker 2: that that totally tracks for me. I'm not going to
Speaker 2: criticize it, but you're right, he's he in his like
Speaker 2: I have to save the day, Like he's not thinking
Speaker 2: about it and he's flying up and I remember that's
Speaker 2: that's in that that season ten trailer from the Comic
Speaker 2: Cony you see, And I was like, oh.
Speaker 1: My god, right, if it's incredible his determination, and but
Speaker 1: you also have to think like the times he did fly,
Speaker 1: it would be like when he was under Red k
Speaker 1: or if he was cow. You know, it was always
Speaker 1: a moment where he didn't have those inhibitions. Yeah there,
Speaker 1: he just didn't know how to use it. So yeah,
Speaker 1: that was such a great scene, great heroic moment despite
Speaker 1: the where people in the.
Speaker 2: Text absolutely and you know he's he he puts the
Speaker 2: glow back and everybody's cheering, the fifteen people they have
Speaker 2: as extras, and he sees their eyody to the one street,
Speaker 2: he sees their body cheering farm and then he just
Speaker 2: super speeds back to the barn and which I think
Speaker 2: is stock footage of some super speed shot from outside.
Speaker 2: They can farm at some point, but it's fine, and
Speaker 2: he goes back and he obviously in his mind, he's like,
Speaker 2: you know what, I'm Superman. Now I'm gonna put on
Speaker 2: this costume. Things is gonna be great, you know. I mean,
Speaker 2: he opens up the box. He's he's about to put
Speaker 2: it on, and then The Adventures of Tom sugerbook blows
Speaker 2: because that tagonal disc is in there, and then Clark
Speaker 2: and the costume gets zapped to the fortress. Thank you, Jorell.
Speaker 2: It looks like they repanted the Fortress between seasons nine
Speaker 2: and ten, though, because I because at the end of
Speaker 2: season eight, when Brandan took over, it was all like
Speaker 2: gray and all that, you know, yea, and they kind
Speaker 2: of kept that in season nine. They probably didn't have
Speaker 2: the budget. But it seems like here in season ten
Speaker 2: it looks cleaner again. I don't know if it's lighting
Speaker 2: or what, but I just I just noticed that maybe perfect,
Speaker 2: but we can see. You know what I don't. I
Speaker 2: don't love this whole, Like Derell's mad at him now
Speaker 2: a thing. It's just a it's just another two steps
Speaker 2: back thing. But I do like how Welling is plained it.
Speaker 2: He's kind of smile. He's like, yeah, you don't feel
Speaker 2: like it was flying like you can see the pride
Speaker 2: that they're talking about, Like it's not just it's not
Speaker 2: just lip servers, Like he can see he's getting a
Speaker 2: little full of himself here. So I do like that part.
Speaker 2: But like Drell's like, hey, you the darkness. So I'm like,
Speaker 2: come on, man, he took away by costume because you
Speaker 2: don't think I'm a.
Speaker 1: Polo costume here because Tom Welling told me you don't
Speaker 1: want to wear it.
Speaker 2: The perfect storm of things keeping us forgetting Here's the thing, right,
Speaker 2: I if Tom wanted or wanted to, I think it
Speaker 2: may have been irrelevant. The probably wouldn't even let him
Speaker 2: wear it. I don't know who's right, even like I
Speaker 2: would have loved to have a whole season like Supermanure one,
Speaker 2: but that's not that's not what the show is. Some
Speaker 2: we signed up for. We have to understand that, right,
Speaker 2: But just the fact that like it was there and
Speaker 2: then Gerald like takes it away and puts it into
Speaker 2: like an ice pillar is kind of It's kind of weird, Craig, but.
Speaker 1: You know, we as an audience probably feeling the exact
Speaker 1: same thing Clark was at the time, Like Jiurelle, you
Speaker 1: are such a dick. Yeah, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: we just you know it was it was like Lucy
Speaker 1: in the Football with Charlie Brown Peanuts cartoons.
Speaker 2: And it's they're kind of going because Clark and Joel
Speaker 2: were kind of in a good place last season, so
Speaker 2: they're kind of going back further like when they were
Speaker 2: kind of at odds with each other. I guess they
Speaker 2: figured that's more interesting, which it is is always.
Speaker 1: In retrospect, like if you ever do a Smallville timeline,
Speaker 1: Jeoryel makes no sense, Like just like, yeah, well.
Speaker 2: I have a question for you, Craig. How many episodes
Speaker 2: do you think Jerrel was in season nine?
Speaker 1: Four?
Speaker 2: Two?
Speaker 1: Okay?
Speaker 2: That that that blew my mind too? A savior and
Speaker 2: echo where he gives them the my reading power. That's
Speaker 2: in season nine. He is in four in season ten though,
Speaker 2: so just so you know, wait, which episode which season
Speaker 2: was Julian Sand's first in season nine? Does that count? Oh? Well, okay,
Speaker 2: fair enough. I was just I was, I guess I mad.
Speaker 2: The voices are all turns down, but h okay, he's dude,
Speaker 2: he's only in what episode of season eight? Can you
Speaker 2: believe that?
Speaker 1: Wow?
Speaker 2: Right? I mean because he was just this this heavy
Speaker 2: presence in the early part of the show, and you think,
Speaker 2: like when the fortresses around, he's going to be around more.
Speaker 2: He's actually kind of around less. So it's it's interesting, Uh,
Speaker 2: Clark went talk to him in the caves a lot
Speaker 2: more than the we thought.
Speaker 1: In the actual fortress. Well, I think the caves other
Speaker 1: aspect of the show that the show did kind of forget.
Speaker 1: Like sometimes they'd mentioned Naman and sig or whatever.
Speaker 2: Look, we have we have pictures, but.
Speaker 1: It was like the second that the fortress was there,
Speaker 1: they just forgot the caves existed.
Speaker 2: Which is fine, I guess, like I'm like, I never
Speaker 2: really care for the caves, but it did. I did
Speaker 2: like that the show had its own identity sort of
Speaker 2: with those.
Speaker 1: So it's like out Oliver's apartment disappeared by the time
Speaker 1: Justin Hartley was a serious regular amazing timing, but they
Speaker 1: kept going there. In season seven.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Olivers out of town. But let's let's take your
Speaker 2: mom here, Quille he or whatever. You know. Joel and
Speaker 2: Clark are kind of going back and forth here and
Speaker 2: the fortress kind of like gets mad at Clark. It's
Speaker 2: like shaking it, which is you know, you don't see
Speaker 2: that very often which is kind of cool, and of
Speaker 2: Colu's like, why did you send me back if you
Speaker 2: don't want me to be a hero, And Joel's like,
Speaker 2: it was not my decision to give you back your life.
Speaker 2: And Clark's like, hmm, because Garrel's done this before. She's
Speaker 2: resurrected Clark in the past, so that makes sense why
Speaker 2: Clark would think that.
Speaker 1: The last time he resurrected Clark, Jonathan ended up dying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so He's like, you might not see me as
Speaker 2: a hero, but the rest of the world does, and
Speaker 2: I decided my fate. It's actually I agree, like if
Speaker 2: they had kept like the the quote unquote evil Joerell
Speaker 2: from like the first couple of seasons, right, yeah, that
Speaker 2: would have been interesting. But like Superman returns happened, I think,
Speaker 2: and they had to kind of a lie and thing.
Speaker 2: So so who knows, but it is interesting here, But
Speaker 2: I do think it's a little it's a step two
Speaker 2: our withdrawal to be like, you will never be your
Speaker 2: savior and he turns off the fortress.
Speaker 1: Well, I feel like the early episodes of season ten
Speaker 1: especially had a lot of people crapping on Clark about
Speaker 1: how he hasn't met his destiny. I mean Karat yeah,
Speaker 1: Kara in super the Superol episode especially, but other people
Speaker 1: and it's like, okay, yeah, we get it. He's not
Speaker 1: there yet. But I liked that he Clark was finally
Speaker 1: thinking or speaking proactively in the Fortresses draw right here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he instead of just sitting there and taking it,
Speaker 2: He's like at least defending himself. Right, So we kept
Speaker 2: the commercial. We come back. Hey, we get some great
Speaker 2: shots of Justin Harley's beat up naked body here, but
Speaker 2: the suicide squad lets him go, and there's a there's
Speaker 2: a there's a prisoner swap and as the classic I
Speaker 2: have a bag on your head, you have a bag
Speaker 2: on my head whatever. I like. They pass in the
Speaker 2: parking lot and Chloe is now the prisoner of the
Speaker 2: suicide squad. It's so interesting because like in a different season,
Speaker 2: when like Green Arrow was the guest star, they would
Speaker 2: have captured Chloe and all it would have been the
Speaker 2: switch and like, oh, there's where Green Arrow is the
Speaker 2: season right, He's at super max prison. Like that movie
Speaker 2: they were gonna make it made well.
Speaker 1: I remember watching the scene. I thought the song choice
Speaker 1: was really good, especially as it led to the next
Speaker 1: scene as well. I don't remember what it's called, but.
Speaker 2: It's vast One More Day, and I was like, this
Speaker 2: sounds really familiar. And you know why, Craig, you know
Speaker 2: why it sounds from there because they played this at
Speaker 2: the end of Veritas. What I know, this is very
Speaker 2: unlike Smallvele to reuse a song unless it's everything by
Speaker 2: Lifehouse exactly.
Speaker 1: No, I did not realize that, but like I will admit,
Speaker 1: even though I was not a Schlally person, I was
Speaker 1: very emotional watching that scene of the switch.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, they play it well, yeah, they pla Alice
Speaker 2: and Max in the in the car. In her facial expression,
Speaker 2: it's like, okay, like you're you're selling you on this
Speaker 2: eve when I'm like, I don't necessarily like this, you're selling. Oh,
Speaker 2: there it is. And we're not even talking about real
Speaker 2: life folks. We're talking about small of them. But yeah,
Speaker 2: we we have this this montage of of having all
Speaker 2: the characters in and so you know, Oliver and Chloe
Speaker 2: have this prisoner exchange and then we see we see
Speaker 2: little Alexander playing with playing with knights at the Luther
Speaker 2: mansion and let and tests is like gives him a
Speaker 2: glass of milk. So it's like this weird like motherly
Speaker 2: thing and like, so this is you know, this is
Speaker 2: before we find out how they're related, right, So I
Speaker 2: remember it might have been on the crypton site forums
Speaker 2: because krypton site still exists. Go check it out, y'all.
Speaker 2: But I wasn't posting at this point, but I was lurking.
Speaker 2: Somebody was like, yeah, Lex is gonna f and then
Speaker 2: kill Tests, and I was like, well interesting.
Speaker 1: But I I don't remember how I found out, but
Speaker 1: I knew about Tests being a Luther before season ten started.
Speaker 2: Okay, so that means they really did figure it out
Speaker 2: before then.
Speaker 1: But there was a point where I saw Cassidy and
Speaker 1: kind of made like a joke like what if she's
Speaker 1: a Luther? And she got a little squirmy you know, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: she didn't confirm anything, but she was squirmy.
Speaker 2: Well it makes she's the red hair, Like it totally
Speaker 2: tracks like like of all these like you know, you
Speaker 2: mentioned like really who she might have been and absolutely
Speaker 2: just like this works so well and it justifies her
Speaker 2: being in all this. And also Lena Luther exists in
Speaker 2: the comics, so like she is a character, like they
Speaker 2: didn't anyway, Jenkins kid perfect Now that that timeline I
Speaker 2: don't think makes any sense. That's another conversation for another day.
Speaker 2: But it's it's.
Speaker 1: Interesting, blinking Pamela Jenkins.
Speaker 2: Before right, Yes, yeah, but it's you're right. This gives
Speaker 2: Tests something to do other than like I'm trying to
Speaker 2: save the world because of global warm or whatever whatever.
Speaker 2: Her high like we need the alien's help to save
Speaker 2: the plan. I'm like, what do you like? This is?
Speaker 2: This is a lot more tangible, right it is? And
Speaker 2: you're like, oh man, this kid's gonna grow into lex
Speaker 2: Like that's really a cool idea.
Speaker 1: But the song really fit there too, because I was saying,
Speaker 1: it's almost like Tests was seeking a family, and so
Speaker 1: she gets to spend another day with family, and then
Speaker 1: somebody else gets to spend some time with some family.
Speaker 2: Okay, so Clark is he got a letter from from Lois.
Speaker 2: Lois decides to go to Africa, and I did kind
Speaker 2: of laugh at this shot of Lois in Africa, like, oh, guys,
Speaker 2: we got to show Lois in Africa. What do we do?
Speaker 2: Like I don't know, like just have her stand on
Speaker 2: top of like a sand dune.
Speaker 1: It was a beautiful shot.
Speaker 2: Though it is, and obviously they explore and explain that
Speaker 2: a lot further in the next episode. That's what that's for.
Speaker 2: But it is kind of like she got saved by Clark,
Speaker 2: but she decides to go to Africa and way, and
Speaker 2: you know, they kind of dove into that next episode.
Speaker 2: But because she just leaves Clark kind of a Dear
Speaker 2: John letter. Clark getting these Dear John letters and videos
Speaker 2: from all these women in his life. Kobe didn't even
Speaker 2: leave him anything. So at least at least a lot
Speaker 2: of Lois had the decency to tell him something. But
Speaker 2: it's like Clark, yeah, decided to go to Africa after all,
Speaker 2: I see you, Lois. And it's very simple, right, He's
Speaker 2: holding this letter and he's like emotionally like kind of
Speaker 2: struck by it, right, and he just drops it and
Speaker 2: it kind of like floats away and we see a figure. Okay,
Speaker 2: we see a figure out by a fence, right, and
Speaker 2: Clark's like, what is that? He starts getting closer and
Speaker 2: it's Jonathan Kent. It's Ghost Dat Craig. He's here now
Speaker 2: getting John Schneider, a nett o'tool John Glover, Michael Rosenbaum, right,
Speaker 2: great to kind of like make the series come full circle.
Speaker 1: Am Jones christ Away now.
Speaker 2: Eric Johnson, h Jen snackles. So I am gonna spin
Speaker 2: this entire season, I think trying to figure out how
Speaker 2: I feel about Ghost Dad Greg, because this scene is fantastic.
Speaker 2: Smallville is the blueprint right now bvs. Madmisonervant has a
Speaker 2: very similar scene to this, and this scene is much better,
Speaker 2: and we'll leave it at that, right but I'll just
Speaker 2: say Smallvel is the blueprint.
Speaker 1: Well to me, and I know I've talked about this
Speaker 1: before on your show. I lost my dad when I
Speaker 1: was nineteen, pretty much the same age Clark was in Reckoning,
Speaker 1: and I definitely remember just times when I was younger thinking,
Speaker 1: oh I wish I could spend another day with my dad.
Speaker 1: So to see Clark in that kind of moment, like
Speaker 1: it was like that was like, you know, everybody's gone,
Speaker 1: Lois is gone, Martha's gone. You know, nobody's there, and
Speaker 1: it's like, what does Clark need? And especially after that
Speaker 1: interaction with Jirell, he probably needed a father figure to
Speaker 1: speak to. I don't know how like if Clark just
Speaker 1: imagined the whole thing and then the notion that they
Speaker 1: deal with ghost at again in the season. Like, I mean,
Speaker 1: he does say a very memorable line in the finale.
Speaker 2: Indeed he does, Indeed he does.
Speaker 1: But like I guess it's just it's the speech that
Speaker 1: Clark needed. Now, whether or not he imagined it or what,
Speaker 1: we will never know. Like, I don't think it's dark
Speaker 1: cybe manipulating him because he's tall.
Speaker 2: No, this is positive stuff.
Speaker 1: This is positive stuff exactly. So I never quite figured
Speaker 1: that out.
Speaker 2: Well here's and it's one of those things where it's
Speaker 2: like the message and the moment and the emotions outweigh
Speaker 2: any sort of story mechanics, right, so whatever, right, I mean,
Speaker 2: what I'm not gonna say is he a real ghost?
Speaker 2: Like it doesn't matter. Right.
Speaker 1: Well, also, apparently people like grow longer hair and get
Speaker 1: a little bit of weight.
Speaker 2: And you know what's funny is John Start. He was
Speaker 2: at the Smallble season ten panel, right, and he came
Speaker 2: out and he wearing like, and I know it's just
Speaker 2: a black pants and a white shirt, but he's wearing
Speaker 2: like the Jonathan Kent outfit he was in when he died.
Speaker 2: I'm like, are you cosplaying as yourself here? I don't know.
Speaker 1: That's great.
Speaker 2: It's a fantastic scene. And again, we've all had people
Speaker 2: in our lives we love this one more day with it, right,
Speaker 2: So the song is very appropriate, yes, and in isolation
Speaker 2: it really works. And of course then you can like, oh,
Speaker 2: by the way, I look out for dark Side. I'm like, okay,
Speaker 2: throw it in that. You really didn't need that seasoned
Speaker 2: specific plot thing, but I understand why it's there. But
Speaker 2: he's like, he's man, Dad, Jarrell thinks some of a
Speaker 2: failures since when you care Jarrell thinks, I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 2: exactly right. He expresses like, Dad, I burned a building down,
Speaker 2: you know, like I'm glad He like, is guilty about that,
Speaker 2: because that's one of the most insane things Smallvi'll ever did,
Speaker 2: was have Clark burned down. Like that's what made No
Speaker 2: Bailey from Superman homepage stop reviewing the show, right right,
Speaker 2: that's true, but that was like to him, that was
Speaker 2: like the ultimate.
Speaker 1: You know, well, I remember I did not like that scene,
Speaker 1: and I was very vocal about it on Twitter, and
Speaker 1: I think the cloest fans really came after me that
Speaker 1: week because they they just thought that I was implying
Speaker 1: that Clark was out of character for the whole episode. Really,
Speaker 1: speaking of that moment being offensive.
Speaker 2: Whenever I revisit that episode, it's so out of nowhere
Speaker 2: because I'm like, oh, it's the fun. It's like this
Speaker 2: fun Valentine's Day episode, right, and then it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: and then nine to eleven happens at the end, I'm
Speaker 2: like whoa, so like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean, you know, people can make the
Speaker 1: you know, hand with oh the buildings were empty, but still,
Speaker 1: but the imagery.
Speaker 2: It's the imagery is the problem.
Speaker 1: The imagery and Superman doing that.
Speaker 2: I did not like two towers in a downtown deenviartment.
Speaker 2: So I'm glad that Clark mentions this to his dad.
Speaker 2: Here to that's the instaying you know what, I don't
Speaker 2: even a little too far, Like they use that and
Speaker 2: say that's the darkness, and it is hard here to
Speaker 2: they're talking about okay, good, good good, and then it's
Speaker 2: just solid stuff, you know, Like even in the first season,
Speaker 2: he's like, sure, son work keeps him mant honest, like
Speaker 2: he's so in character, and he's he's hyping up and
Speaker 2: he's like, Dad, I'm sorry, I'm not who you thought
Speaker 2: it was gonna be. He's like, no, Son, even better
Speaker 2: and like I don't know, like it's it's a great
Speaker 2: scene and and you really feel the emotion Tom is.
Speaker 2: Tom is great in it. John is great in it.
Speaker 2: It's a great scene.
Speaker 1: I think, emotional and outside it was emotional just doing
Speaker 1: a scene.
Speaker 2: Together yet because he hadn't been. I'm so glad this exists, Craig,
Speaker 2: because like that that scene and void is fantastic. It's
Speaker 2: very similar to this actually right in the Afterlife, Right,
Speaker 2: but then John Shaddon comes back and like it's Brainiac
Speaker 2: and I'm like, hmmm, like I would hate if that
Speaker 2: was the last time we saw Jonathan Kann as like
Speaker 2: a brainiac mirage.
Speaker 1: Right. I think it was a good time to bring
Speaker 1: Schneider back because any negative feelings he had had about
Speaker 1: his ending on the show had probably mostly flown out
Speaker 1: the door. So it was just like a moment of
Speaker 1: appreciation for both of them, and I thought that was fantastic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And to your point, I think had had they
Speaker 2: left Ghost Dad here as the one off, maybe that
Speaker 2: would have been beat. Now. I know he's responsible for
Speaker 2: the name of my podcast, so maybe it's for the
Speaker 2: best he came back. It's just you know what, you
Speaker 2: know what breaks ghost Dad. For me, Craig is when
Speaker 2: he's at the wedding and like a different outfit, all
Speaker 2: cleaned up, you know, uh huh, and then he's like
Speaker 2: hugging them together at the end, like there's like physical reintact.
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, you know, I know it would
Speaker 1: have been the hugest cheat and they shouldn't have done it.
Speaker 1: But maybe they should have brought him over like they
Speaker 1: brought over the other Lionel.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Earth just becomes this Jonathan yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, or something. But I'm sure Perry White wouldn't like that.
Speaker 2: Part of what he's still in Jonathan's I know what,
Speaker 2: I know what it feels like to kill. He's like
Speaker 2: I failed, and you know he's like, we walk in
Speaker 2: front of trials, Son, and it's all the measurer, man
Speaker 2: is you know how you react and face of those trials.
Speaker 2: And again it's just the the moral messages the Cants
Speaker 2: have always you know, passed down the Clark and really
Speaker 2: in this kind of this scene kind of absolves Clark
Speaker 2: from the guilt that he had because he always blamed himself.
Speaker 2: As we saw that previously on Smallville. At the end
Speaker 2: of last season, he blames himself for his father's death right,
Speaker 2: because him reversing time and Jonathan dying and then him
Speaker 2: having the powers and the heart right and this conversation,
Speaker 2: Jonathan's like, no man like I. Jonathan says, no, I
Speaker 2: let the rage bell up inside me. I wanted to
Speaker 2: kill another man and he killed me instead. So it
Speaker 2: kind of absolves Clark of that guilt, which I think
Speaker 2: is a very important thing to happen for this version
Speaker 2: of the character.
Speaker 1: I agree, this is a really well thought out episode.
Speaker 1: I mean, we talked about how like so many threads
Speaker 1: are being pulled together, but it really did have that
Speaker 1: vibe of you're about to get on this roller coaster ride,
Speaker 1: now get yourself seated in your right spot. And yeah,
Speaker 1: it was great.
Speaker 2: And Clark he doubts himself at the end, and Jonathan says,
Speaker 2: you know, I have faith in your son. That's the
Speaker 2: last word from ghost dat Clark wilks again. So it's right,
Speaker 2: and he's gone. He was never there. So that's not
Speaker 2: the end of the episode. Because we cut to the
Speaker 2: Crow's nest as we started referring to it as at
Speaker 2: the end of season nine, and we see the smoke
Speaker 2: start to form and it blows these leaves off the
Speaker 2: roof and we see this body form and it's dark Side,
Speaker 2: Oh my god, with with blue eyes for some reason, Craig,
Speaker 2: which they realized this mistake and on the previously ons
Speaker 2: later in the season they changed his eyes to red.
Speaker 2: From this, they do the Milton Fine thing here with
Speaker 2: with dark Side, where it's like, oh yeah, by the way,
Speaker 2: here's the villain of the season. This one off shot
Speaker 2: reaches forms and we'll continue to talk about smoke Side
Speaker 2: as the as the season progresses, but yeah, they're establishing
Speaker 2: dark Side, which is huge. I mean, the first live
Speaker 2: action dark Side if you want to call him my
Speaker 2: action and there you go, that's your villain. He's the
Speaker 2: darkness that the Jonathan and Rorel have both warned Clark about.
Speaker 2: But we don't leave the season on that. We don't
Speaker 2: leave the episode on that note, Craig. We go to
Speaker 2: the fortress uh and the Blur theme plays and we
Speaker 2: see the Superman Returns costume in an ice pillar waiting
Speaker 2: waiting there.
Speaker 1: Beautiful shot.
Speaker 2: It's on the cover of the Blu Ray series set.
Speaker 2: What what false advertising?
Speaker 3: That is? No?
Speaker 1: I just love that shot because it's like he is
Speaker 1: We're gonna be get episodes.
Speaker 2: Maybe, Yeah, it's just it is false advertising, though, is
Speaker 2: it not to be on the complete series Blu Ray.
Speaker 1: No more than some of the other like even the
Speaker 1: complete series DVD I think had that on there. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well also like the Funk co Pop one of the
Speaker 2: funk copops is the last shot of the show. Yeah,
Speaker 2: not good, but that's what I'm saying that. Some saying
Speaker 2: early like do you tease this in the first episode
Speaker 2: with the Superman costumes?
Speaker 1: Here?
Speaker 2: Like exhiding times, exciting times?
Speaker 3: What up.
Speaker 4: A very street Echanti? They said, he funded.
Speaker 3: Very so what are you mad? Supermand it?
Speaker 1: What if my soulmate comes along and I'm too blind
Speaker 1: to see it.
Speaker 3: Just follow your heart and you'll always do the right thing.
Speaker 3: Wanting a magic past my way?
Speaker 2: Word needs your quark?
Speaker 1: What about what we need?
Speaker 3: Man? Need it?
Speaker 2: O sandcakes?
Speaker 3: This he said?
Speaker 2: Who are you?
Speaker 5: Lois?
Speaker 3: Lois?
Speaker 2: Line three?
Speaker 1: Hello, it's just tw.
Speaker 2: And we know you're more than just a hero.
Speaker 1: They're superhero.
Speaker 3: Give me a nerd with glasses any day of the week.
Speaker 2: Something dark is coming.
Speaker 5: You're gonna be testing like you have never been tested.
Speaker 3: For three s.
Speaker 1: I know my destiny.
Speaker 5: Smallville season premiere next Friday at eight seventh Central. Smallville
Speaker 5: Seatson premiere Friday, September twenty fourth on the c W.
Speaker 1: New One, Blue ray and DVD. This is where it's
Speaker 1: all been leading you become. That's the greatest say it
Speaker 1: more than.
Speaker 5: Two hours of special features the final season of Small
Speaker 5: Dale on Blue ray and DVD November twenty ninth, and
Speaker 5: on the Complete Series collection on DVD.
Speaker 2: Lazarus got an eight point six out of ten on IMDb,
Speaker 2: and Douglas Trumbull from a Superman homepage gave it a
Speaker 2: five out of five. So, Craig, I ask you, on
Speaker 2: the letter grade scale, what would you give Lazarus a plus?
Speaker 1: I freaking loved it.
Speaker 2: Wow, Okay, we're really one of your favorite episodes of
Speaker 2: the series.
Speaker 1: It really, it just was like, it just makes me happy.
Speaker 1: I mean, even if there are a few things that
Speaker 1: make no sense, I can overlook that just because it
Speaker 1: made me happy.
Speaker 2: Fair enough, fair enough. I I'm going to give it
Speaker 2: an A minus for me. It's in the A range, okay,
Speaker 2: but there's like a few of these things. I'm like, Eh,
Speaker 2: if Rose Obama's in this that changes, it might earn
Speaker 2: that a flush.
Speaker 1: Oh good, point. Yeah I can.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's gonna be an a plus for you
Speaker 2: and a minus for me. Let's go to the tally board.
Speaker 2: Just a couple of things this episode amazing technicol or
Speaker 2: Kryptonite plus one that brings us to nineteen because we
Speaker 2: see the blue Kryptonite blade. I'm not counting Clark losing
Speaker 2: his powers because he already lost his powers from the
Speaker 2: blue crypt Knite in the last episode, so that carries over.
Speaker 2: Also Tests, she doesn't wake up in a hospital. She
Speaker 2: wakes up in like a lab, so that doesn't count
Speaker 2: either for a hospital visit, at least to me. But
Speaker 2: we do have a shirtless over plus one, so that
Speaker 2: brings us to thirteen. And finally, a Bechdel tests fail
Speaker 2: because Lois, Chloe, and Tests don't talk to each other
Speaker 2: in this episode.
Speaker 1: Oh that's weird, but Craig, that's going to do it.
Speaker 2: We have completed our discussion on the final season premiere,
Speaker 2: small though, how do you feel?
Speaker 1: I feel good about it, but I'm kind of sad
Speaker 1: we don't have any more season premiere's coming.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's it. Only we only had ten, so I
Speaker 2: know we need.
Speaker 1: We need a couple more. I don't know like I
Speaker 1: just I had a lot of fun revisiting the feeling
Speaker 1: of what it was like to watch that season premiere,
Speaker 1: because it was a very exciting time.
Speaker 2: It was a very special time just going into it
Speaker 2: knowing this was the final season and all the speculation,
Speaker 2: like they're clearly as we've been talk about the whole time,
Speaker 2: they're putting things in place, you know, to set up
Speaker 2: and continue throughout the season. Just just the fact that
Speaker 2: Lex is back in any form of any capacity is
Speaker 2: extremely exciting. And knowing that he's going to be this
Speaker 2: you know, we we don't know what form is gonna take.
Speaker 2: They didn't even know credit right exactly.
Speaker 1: But also I think this, you know, this episode does
Speaker 1: show how much the series had evolved at the same
Speaker 1: time looking back. I mean obviously another probably a plus
Speaker 1: episode of the season for me was Homecoming, which did
Speaker 1: similar thing. It just celebrated the best of the series
Speaker 1: and it just made it rewarding. I'm very glad to
Speaker 1: have watched this episode again.
Speaker 2: So yeah, absolutely, well, we could not do a final
Speaker 2: season of Smallville without talking to you, Craig. So if
Speaker 2: people want to find you and your work out there online,
Speaker 2: where can they find you?
Speaker 1: Crypt on site still exists, so cryptonsite dot com. I
Speaker 1: sometimes update the Instagram at crypton site Official because crypt
Speaker 1: on site was taken at some point and I can't
Speaker 1: register it. I don't know why. But yeah, I'm still
Speaker 1: wortying about Superman stuff, including a new movie, and trying
Speaker 1: to find some like stuff from my archives that I
Speaker 1: can share. Again. That's been doing really well on the
Speaker 1: site recently. I recently did an article about the different
Speaker 1: attempts on spinning off the Justice League things like that
Speaker 1: if you want to check out the site. So there's
Speaker 1: still new content coming.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and then k s I TV you know Superman
Speaker 2: Lowis coverage and all those other shows, right, Yeah, so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got k s I TV, which is my
Speaker 1: general TV news site. Hopefully we'll get some more comic
Speaker 1: book TV or you know, stuff to talk about. And
Speaker 1: yes we have the final season Superman Lowes Is coming up.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean it's it's really an into an
Speaker 2: era for as far as comic television goes. At least,
Speaker 2: you know, on the broadcast.
Speaker 1: We had too much at one point.
Speaker 2: I will not disagree.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like we don't need like I think
Speaker 1: part of what makes Smallville special is it was like
Speaker 1: the only one of its kind, the only show even
Speaker 1: remotely like it was Heroes and that was only around
Speaker 1: for four years of that run.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is much like Superman Returns. Heroes came and
Speaker 2: went yeah, blip blip on the radar when Smallville was
Speaker 2: still there.
Speaker 1: I mean by the time Smallville was over, they were
Speaker 1: already planning Man of Steel. I think they might have
Speaker 1: already been filmed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe maybe that maybe by the end of that
Speaker 2: calendar year perhaps, Yeah, which is just just like.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go from Lex Luthor to being Jackson the
Speaker 1: next day.
Speaker 2: Didn't even bother to grow his hair back, but exactly.
Speaker 2: But you got a shout shout out too. And though
Speaker 2: that he created Cydborg, he played Lex and he wanted
Speaker 2: to play jacksonar So Superman. He's got a Superman credentials
Speaker 2: for sure.
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
Speaker 2: Well, everybody go check out crypton site and case se TV.
Speaker 2: You know, I always post your image galleries reviews, you know,
Speaker 2: trying to keep trying to keep keep onside alive, you know,
Speaker 2: from people when they're revisiting Smavele, revisit all that stuff
Speaker 2: and just get caught up in the hype, you know,
Speaker 2: of each of those episodes and just reliving because those
Speaker 2: are special times, you know. You know all the I
Speaker 2: love all the photo galleries you would post and the
Speaker 2: comments you would make on them, like those are so
Speaker 2: fun just to click through, and you know those captions
Speaker 2: you come up with good stuff.
Speaker 1: Man, Oh, that was so much fun. Great. I mean,
Speaker 1: not as much fun as doing April Fooles obviously, but
Speaker 1: the captions were fun. I feel like some of the
Speaker 1: captions were probably meaner than I would do now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: a little inappropriate. Sometimes would not go there. But you know,
Speaker 1: it's a different time. I was younger. Uh, the internet
Speaker 1: was different, you know. I was recently looking at the
Speaker 1: web archive at old crypton site spoilers, specifically like around
Speaker 1: season five, and I was almost disappointed in myself and
Speaker 1: how I would give away almost an entire episode on
Speaker 1: that spoiler's page.
Speaker 2: Man, that's that I had to stop. I'm reading it,
Speaker 2: you spoiler's page, because I was like, I want to
Speaker 2: be surprised.
Speaker 1: I think the only reason I got away with it
Speaker 1: is because I remember Miles saying back then, He's like, oh,
Speaker 1: if it's on the internet, it's only a small part
Speaker 1: of the audience who knows.
Speaker 2: What's Oh, how little he knew?
Speaker 1: Yeah, how little do? But like like I am reading this,
Speaker 1: like I can't believe that I posted. I remember I
Speaker 1: think it was even Christmas Day. I remember posting, Oh,
Speaker 1: Chloe's gonna find out in Pariah And it's like what, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would never get away with that now, No, Like
Speaker 1: Warner Brothers tould be calling me like take that down.
Speaker 2: Although, and we talked about it as we wrap up here, right,
Speaker 2: I do want to shout out. We talked about you
Speaker 2: know you were on Arctic when we covered Arctic back
Speaker 2: in season seven. Yeah, that c W official description was
Speaker 2: worse than anything you ever could have put on your
Speaker 2: spoiler's page, crag. If you recall, it was like Kara
Speaker 2: who was secretly brainiac, Revell's Clark's secret to Lex and
Speaker 2: Lex and Clark infront of each other in the fortress
Speaker 2: of Solid Dude on the season finale. You know small.
Speaker 1: I feel like their Vampire Diarus descriptions are similar and
Speaker 1: that they would like detail, like every plot point, and
Speaker 1: it's like you know, dial a Paclo and then now
Speaker 1: like the descriptions pretty much say nothing. It's like, oh,
Speaker 1: Superman in Lois find out something about Bruno Mannheim.
Speaker 2: I love reading those on the always on Superman Lowis
Speaker 2: and laughing at how just just worthless.
Speaker 1: Those s different is you know, you're talking about the
Speaker 1: Smallville photo galleries. We would sometimes get like twenty photos
Speaker 1: per episode, and now it's the modern air of the CW,
Speaker 1: it's like three or four.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, usually like what episode is this from?
Speaker 2: From Tyler's standing there in his costume, there's not really
Speaker 2: a lot of distinguishing stuff.
Speaker 1: But yeah, and I feel like the final season, the Flash,
Speaker 1: I don't even think they released photos for the Flash finale.
Speaker 1: It could be wrong. And that's the finaley. Oh remember,
Speaker 1: I know it was a mistake, but uh, I feel
Speaker 1: like there were photos of the costume like an episode
Speaker 1: before we saw it, like before the finale. Oh maybe yeah,
Speaker 1: and it was in a photo gallery and it's like,
Speaker 1: wait a minute now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't recall, but sometimes sometimes that would whatever
Speaker 2: they released, they were like, oh, it's some kind of
Speaker 2: the wrong folder.
Speaker 1: I do remember another thing that happened back then. I'd
Speaker 1: never posted on crypton site. I didn't allow it, but
Speaker 1: somebody found photos of Clark holding Jonathan's body from Reckoning
Speaker 1: deleted scene and that leaked like a couple of weeks
Speaker 1: before the episode aired.
Speaker 2: Oh wows.
Speaker 1: And you know, I didn't post I as a good boy,
Speaker 1: but they were out there somewhere. But it was easier
Speaker 1: to contain stuff back then.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, there's no social media the way
Speaker 2: it is now. But yeah, well, Craig Man, thanks so
Speaker 2: much for being on this episode and being on so
Speaker 2: many over the course of this podcast and being part
Speaker 2: of the Smallville journey. And I'm glad that we've become
Speaker 2: friends over this and uh, it's been a great journey man.
Speaker 1: Sometime Yeah, maybe not again. You know, you've got you
Speaker 1: You're always holding onto everything. I'm sure you're gonna hold
Speaker 1: on to something. Oh you're gonna do Heroes, right.
Speaker 2: Everybody wants me to, have been teasing it for years.
Speaker 1: I do always hold on to heroes, and I will
Speaker 1: definitely want to.
Speaker 2: Be on all right, I will. I feel like I'm
Speaker 2: obligated to at this point. You are, ye, so, but
Speaker 2: I'll say right now, it's it's not gonna be like
Speaker 2: always on the Smubble's not gonna end, and then always
Speaker 2: on Heroes is not going to start the next week. Okay,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Well, I just also just wanted to point out your
Speaker 1: dedication is appreciated. You've been doing this for overt well,
Speaker 1: I'm sure you've done over two hundred episodes if you
Speaker 1: count all the Superman.
Speaker 2: Special Yeah, with all the specials.
Speaker 1: You know, like you've stuck with this whole journey, through
Speaker 1: thick and thin, through Angeles and thirst and everything in between.
Speaker 1: And I think that's amazing. So congratulations and I can't
Speaker 1: wait to hear the rest of the season.
Speaker 3: For me.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Thank you so much, Greg, and as far as
Speaker 2: everybody else goes, thanks for listening, Keep on listening, and
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Speaker 2: Once again, with one S, thanks for listening.