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Speaker 3: Love you are now listening to True Murder The most
Speaker 3: shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that
Speaker 3: have written about them. Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK.
Speaker 3: Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking
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Speaker 3: your host journalist and author Dan Zupanski, Good Evening.
Speaker 6: Karen Wolfe Srgan walked her dogs in April eighteenth, nineteen
Speaker 6: ninety on her remote wooded property on Chebacco Road. The
Speaker 6: veterinarian spotted a white sphere obstructing a drainage ditch. When
Speaker 6: she reached to dislodge it, she reeled back in horror.
Speaker 6: She immediately called the police. I saw something in the
Speaker 6: woods that looked like a punched in volleyball, Karen told
Speaker 6: the Beverly Times on April twenty fifth, nineteen ninety I
Speaker 6: looked closer and it was a human skull. It had
Speaker 6: suture like zigzag lines those are unique to human skulls.
Speaker 6: Officer Hathfiell was the first to respond. An initial conclusion
Speaker 6: determined discovery was indeed a human skull. Hamilton Police Chief
Speaker 6: Walter Cullen arrived at the scene next and photographed to find.
Speaker 6: The Massachusetts State Police Crime Prevention and Control Unit Sea
Speaker 6: Pack dismatched Colonel Dennis Marx to take charge of Corporal
Speaker 6: Denis Marks to take charge of the crime scene. Local
Speaker 6: police sent the skull in a nearby black boot to
Speaker 6: Hunt Memorial Hospital to examine, but nothing else service in
Speaker 6: the initial surfaced. In the initial cursory search of the
Speaker 6: surrounding area. Noticees went out to departments to assist the
Speaker 6: resident force, and names poured in to compare the cranium
Speaker 6: to known missing persons. Joan Webster's name appeared on the list,
Speaker 6: but the resting spot was more than thirty miles from
Speaker 6: the long speculated crime zcene at Peer seven in Boston.
Speaker 6: Of course, it's being checked out, but the location doesn't
Speaker 6: seem to correlate. Circumstances pointed to her being taken out
Speaker 6: in a boat and dumped at sea. The book that
Speaker 6: we're featuring this evening is Mummies a Mole, Unraveling the
Speaker 6: Joan Webster Murder and other Secrets in a CIA Family
Speaker 6: with my special guest journalist and author Eve Carson. Welcome
Speaker 6: to the program and thank you for agreeing to this interview.
Speaker 6: Eve Carson, Thank you.
Speaker 7: I appreciate being here very much.
Speaker 6: Thank you very much. This is a great thank you.
Speaker 6: This is a very interesting, unique story and a quite
Speaker 6: complicated story, as we spoke about just before the program started.
Speaker 6: So let's get into a little bit of who the
Speaker 6: major players are in this, and let's start with basically,
Speaker 6: give us what your background is and when you met
Speaker 6: your husband and before you met the family of the
Speaker 6: Webster family itself. Tell us a little bit about yourself
Speaker 6: and a little bit about your background, and then proceed
Speaker 6: from there a little bit.
Speaker 7: Okay, I grew up in Danville, Illinois. It's a small
Speaker 7: town in the Midwest. Most of my upbringing is in
Speaker 7: the Midwest. Went to college at Purdue University, graduate of
Speaker 7: nineteen seventy four in economics and industrial management. Not exactly
Speaker 7: the background one might think of for delving into an
Speaker 7: old murder case, but certainly this one has very significant
Speaker 7: importance for me. Met my husband after I'd graduated from college.
Speaker 7: He'd gone to college in Lake Forest, Illinois, and met
Speaker 7: through a mutual friend in Indianapolis. We dated for a
Speaker 7: couple of years and then got married in nineteen eighty.
Speaker 7: Joan was his baby sister.
Speaker 6: And what's his name, Steve?
Speaker 7: Steve?
Speaker 6: Yes, okay, go ahead, go ahead.
Speaker 7: Sorry, okay, yeah, no. I began meeting the family in
Speaker 7: nineteen seventy seven, so I've known Joan for several years.
Speaker 7: The book is really about her, although I put in
Speaker 7: some personal experiences with the family. It's a very unique family.
Speaker 7: Both of Joan's parents or Steve's parents, had been part
Speaker 7: of the CIA in their early years, so they have
Speaker 7: a very interesting background won an intelligence, which was part
Speaker 7: of the reason I really started to dig into this
Speaker 7: case when the pieces just really didn't add up. They're intelligent,
Speaker 7: educated people that make this a much more complex story
Speaker 7: than what it really should have been. Joan was the
Speaker 7: youngest of three children, and she had worked in New
Speaker 7: York City for a number of years before deciding to
Speaker 7: go back to school. She went and became part of
Speaker 7: the graduate program for the School of Design at Harvard
Speaker 7: University in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Very bright, young woman, lovely, just giggled, kind,
Speaker 7: would do anything for anyone. She was a wonderful part
Speaker 7: of my life, and as I've gone through this case,
Speaker 7: she's become even that much more important to me. I
Speaker 7: really appreciate and value who she was as a person,
Speaker 7: and this is an important case to look at. At
Speaker 7: the time that she disappeared, she was in her second
Speaker 7: year at Harvard, and she had flown back early from
Speaker 7: a Thanksgiving break in Glenridge, New Jersey, which is where
Speaker 7: her parents lived, and she went back Saturday night versus Sunday,
Speaker 7: which was a little bit unused lawn didn't really make
Speaker 7: much sense for quite some time, but she disappeared from
Speaker 7: Logan Airport the night she flew back to Boston November
Speaker 7: twenty eighth, nineteen eighty one. A lot of people have
Speaker 7: the perception that this case was resolved, but it is
Speaker 7: an open murder case in Essex County, Massachusetts. It was
Speaker 7: at the time, it was highly publicized. This ran in
Speaker 7: the media not only in the New England area, but
Speaker 7: actually there was some national coverage on it as well.
Speaker 7: But this was long before the Internet and cable TV,
Speaker 7: so it got a lot of attention for the type
Speaker 7: of case that it was, and certainly got more publicity
Speaker 7: than most.
Speaker 6: Now. Joan was in school, but it was a student
Speaker 6: that first notified and formed the family that she had
Speaker 6: missed some classes. So tell us about that day in question.
Speaker 6: November twenty eighth and tell us what you know if
Speaker 6: it seemed unusual to anybody, any conversations with people that
Speaker 6: seemed cryptic or pointed to any kind of distress or
Speaker 6: anything unusual, tell us about that day and the people
Speaker 6: around her, and the entire circumstances of that day itself.
Speaker 7: Absolutely no signs of distress whatsoever. The family had gone
Speaker 7: to a couple of friends' homes before they took Jones
Speaker 7: to Newark Airport that evening, the Whippens and the Joys,
Speaker 7: both families that I know, and she would have had
Speaker 7: contemporaries there. Friends of hers would have been there. Police
Speaker 7: reports indicated that everyone saw Joan as everything being perfectly normal.
Speaker 7: She was happy, she was upbeat. Matter of fact, she
Speaker 7: was very enthusiastic about a project that she had just
Speaker 7: completed before the break and had gotten very high marks on.
Speaker 7: No one noticed anything out of the ordinary. Her sister
Speaker 7: also lived in the Boston area, so it was a
Speaker 7: little confusing why she had gone back early when ordinarily
Speaker 7: she would have ridden back with her sister the next
Speaker 7: day to the Boston area. The way the story came
Speaker 7: out was that she went back early to work on
Speaker 7: a project that she was going to present, and that
Speaker 7: wasn't the case at all. She had just completed it.
Speaker 7: Matter of fact, the year before, she had missed her
Speaker 7: Thanksgiving break because the workload was so heavy. So to
Speaker 7: me going back through this and trying to piece this
Speaker 7: all together, that was a very unusual circumstance for her
Speaker 7: to have gone.
Speaker 6: Back now that that story, that story was derived or
Speaker 6: without any corroborating witnesses, as you say from the father,
Speaker 6: isn't that correct?
Speaker 7: That's correct, that's correct. He came out and said she'd
Speaker 7: gone back early. He indicated that she'd gone back early
Speaker 7: to work on a project with classmates, and nothing in
Speaker 7: police reports or the files that I've been able to
Speaker 7: recover corroborate that whatsoever. No statements from fellows, students, etc.
Speaker 7: Most of the students were very confused and concerned, but
Speaker 7: didn't notice she was missing until she missed classes on
Speaker 7: that following Monday. It wasn't until several years later that
Speaker 7: George Webster, her father, indicated that she had made a
Speaker 7: call Saturday morning to a classmate to confirm that they
Speaker 7: had supplies for a project that didn't match up with
Speaker 7: the police reports at all. They had checked the home
Speaker 7: phone numbers, but they did not check George Webster's private number.
Speaker 7: That number was missing from the police records, and I
Speaker 7: suspect that he didn't report it. And no investigator would
Speaker 7: know that that number existed unless you know, they wouldn't
Speaker 7: know it was missing from police reports, unless they knew
Speaker 7: that that number existed. That was a confidential line that
Speaker 7: he used. It sat in his office.
Speaker 6: Now, when Joan went missing and the news came to
Speaker 6: the family and to your husband, Steve, what was his
Speaker 6: reaction and what was your reaction was very interesting the
Speaker 6: facts that I just tell.
Speaker 7: Us, I had a miscarriage the same night that Joan disappeared.
Speaker 7: We didn't know it for three days. But at the
Speaker 7: time that we got the call from Steve's mother, Eleanor,
Speaker 7: I was at home, still trying to recover, very weak.
Speaker 7: I was hemorrhaging. He got the phone call and came
Speaker 7: running into the bathroom where I was at that time,
Speaker 7: and actually got very angry with me because I started
Speaker 7: to cry. I got very emotional, concerned, scared, very normal
Speaker 7: reactions in me when you hear someone is missing. And
Speaker 7: he got very angry with me, And that is very bothersome,
Speaker 7: but they are very stoic. I only saw Steve cry
Speaker 7: about the situation one time, only one time. I never
Speaker 7: saw any other members of the family cry about Joan
Speaker 7: being missing. Steve cried when he was under sedation, having
Speaker 7: wisdom to teth pulled about a month and a half later.
Speaker 6: What was your reaction to him chastising you for crying.
Speaker 6: He thought that was inappropriate. Despite you say that the
Speaker 6: family conducted himselves very stoically, did you still think there
Speaker 6: was something to his reaction or not.
Speaker 7: Well, you know, you process things based on what your
Speaker 7: experience is. I know that we had just gone through
Speaker 7: a miscarriage. Steve was very immature. I didn't react to
Speaker 7: it in a hostile way. I tried to be very
Speaker 7: sensitive toward him, but considered that, you know, he just
Speaker 7: was not capable of handling all the emotions and he
Speaker 7: never really did go through a grieving process. The family.
Speaker 7: You look at the reactions, and I understood that they
Speaker 7: had a background in the CIA. They never broke down
Speaker 7: even during private family times, which was very concerning to me.
Speaker 7: I spoke to Steve's mother about it going the family
Speaker 7: needs to grieve, you need to process. I didn't understand
Speaker 7: that that is you know the way that they behaved
Speaker 7: on a regular basis. They don't deal with issues, They
Speaker 7: block them out, and it is concerning they blocked them
Speaker 7: out yet today.
Speaker 6: Now, how do police proceed with this disappearance? How do
Speaker 6: they proceed with this? Where do they go in terms
Speaker 6: of questioning and how do they proceed? Tell us about that.
Speaker 7: The case was very sensational. As I said, it was
Speaker 7: highly publicized. They settled on an explanation fairly early on.
Speaker 7: I did not realize they had come to this determination
Speaker 7: as early as they did. But they focused on a
Speaker 7: man named Leonard Paradiso, and they focused on him based
Speaker 7: on an anonymous call they received in January of nineteen
Speaker 7: eighty two, so only a few weeks into jones disappearance.
Speaker 7: The story that came out was that they believed that
Speaker 7: Leonard Parodiso had picked her up at the airport, taken
Speaker 7: her to his boat which was down at Peer seven,
Speaker 7: and said that he murdered her on his boat and
Speaker 7: then dumped her in Boston Harbor. For a long time
Speaker 7: that was there really was no other explanation so as
Speaker 7: not to believe that, But that story didn't come out
Speaker 7: until a full year later. That story came out in
Speaker 7: January of nineteen eighty three. Digging into the records, I
Speaker 7: could see how the process went along for that year
Speaker 7: trying to implicate this man for her murder. It really
Speaker 7: was an extraordinary explanation, but no one had anything to disputed.
Speaker 7: It was coming from the authorities. It was being agreed
Speaker 7: with by the parents, so no one was going to
Speaker 7: dispute it at that time. That story is still being
Speaker 7: recycled that she was murdered on Paradiso's boat. The only
Speaker 7: difference is is the fact that she was found in
Speaker 7: nineteen ninety. Her remains were found buried more than thirty
Speaker 7: miles from the crime scene. So they kind of reworked
Speaker 7: the ending to suggest that Parodiso had removed her from
Speaker 7: the boat, her bludgeoned body, taken her to a very
Speaker 7: remote area, heavily wooded area, and buried her remains.
Speaker 6: Now, who is Leonard Paradiso in terms of his background,
Speaker 6: and again, what was the theory that police had that
Speaker 6: he came in contact with her at the airport. Give
Speaker 6: us more of the supposed background between these two people,
Speaker 6: how they came to bump into each other.
Speaker 7: Faithfully, Okay, Leonard Parediso was someone who he was a
Speaker 7: parole at the time, and he had a record. He
Speaker 7: had been a suspect in a nineteen seventy nine murder
Speaker 7: a woman named Marie Ayahnuzi. He was not the only
Speaker 7: suspect in that case, but he was a suspect because
Speaker 7: he had attended the same wedding as this woman, and
Speaker 7: he became a logical person to question that case went cold.
Speaker 7: The other suspect in that case was a man named
Speaker 7: David Doyle, who was the woman's boyfriend and they had
Speaker 7: a known abusive relationship. When the anonymous call was placed
Speaker 7: in January of nineteen eighty two, a woman implicated Leonard
Speaker 7: Parediso for both crimes, both the Ayawsie murder and for
Speaker 7: jones disappearance. Her story, which she later testified to in court,
Speaker 7: was never corroborated, never verified. It was a ten year
Speaker 7: old allegation, and suspiciously, it was very similar to the
Speaker 7: story that they were trying to suggest. As far as
Speaker 7: what happened to Jong, she claimed that Paradiso had threatened
Speaker 7: to dump her in the ocean where no one would
Speaker 7: ever find her, and of course that's what the police
Speaker 7: were promoting. As far as what they suggested happened to Joan,
Speaker 7: that she was dumped in the ocean and was not
Speaker 7: going to be found, And it was very convenient because
Speaker 7: nobody had surfaced. No one had any idea what had
Speaker 7: happened to Joan.
Speaker 6: And the motive, sorry, his motive, suppose supposed motive for all.
Speaker 7: Of this, though his motive would have simply been a
Speaker 7: random act. They claimed he was driving a Gypsy cab
Speaker 7: in at the airport, although there is no evidence to
Speaker 7: support that whatsoever. He was a parole, he could not
Speaker 7: get a hack license, and there are no witnesses that
Speaker 7: testified to the fact that he drove a cab at
Speaker 7: any time. Ever. It just was. It was a story
Speaker 7: that basically was compounded every step of the way, trying
Speaker 7: to fit this crime to this man, basically trying to
Speaker 7: prove that he murdered Joan Webster. Nothing supports it.
Speaker 6: Now, who is this, sorry, go ahead, Sorr. Who is
Speaker 6: Robert Bond? And you talked about an anonymous informant, But
Speaker 6: Robert Bond is a criminal informant. So tell us about
Speaker 6: Robert Bond and what he had to say. If I'm
Speaker 6: not jumping ahead.
Speaker 7: Okay, Robert Bond is the person that stepped into the picture.
Speaker 7: In January of nineteen eighty three, he was convicted murderer
Speaker 7: and he was in the Charles Street jail, not far
Speaker 7: from Leonard parodies of self. They were a few cells apart.
Speaker 7: He is the man who the police went to and
Speaker 7: worked on a story and a statement claiming that Leonard
Speaker 7: Parodiso confessed to him that he had murdered Joan on
Speaker 7: his boat and dumped her in Boston. Harper Robert Bond
Speaker 7: had absolutely no credibility whatsoever, but his statement was sealed,
Speaker 7: and when he came forward and testified in the Ayan
Speaker 7: Easy case and also in a pre trial hearing, he
Speaker 7: was implicating Parodis, so for Joan Webster as well. So
Speaker 7: conveniently the police had an informant who could give them
Speaker 7: a story that tied both of these cases together, and
Speaker 7: all through the media, all through the press, these two
Speaker 7: cases were tied together, even though there were no similarities whatsoever.
Speaker 7: Marie Ayaneuzi was found strangled. She was garreted with her
Speaker 7: own next scarf, and she was dumped out on a
Speaker 7: rocky bank near the Pine River. Joan, at this point
Speaker 7: in time, was still a missing person. Nothing suggested that with.
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Speaker 7: You know, she had been even murdered at that point,
Speaker 7: we just point didn't know. There were signs that there
Speaker 7: was a foul play. Her purse had been found, and
Speaker 7: by January of nineteen eighty two her suitcase had been found.
Speaker 7: She did also carry a tote bag that was never recovered.
Speaker 7: So Robert Bond was a snitch that came forward, worked
Speaker 7: with the police. They came up with a statement. At
Speaker 7: the time, I had no idea what the statement said.
Speaker 7: Those are part of the recovered documents now and the
Speaker 7: statement that he gave was false.
Speaker 6: Now, were there some assurances, promises, something to benefit from
Speaker 6: Robert Bond's testimony favorable for the prosecution.
Speaker 7: Absolutely. He was promised that they would reduce his charges
Speaker 7: to manslaughter for the second murder that he had just
Speaker 7: been convicted of. His case did get retried, he did
Speaker 7: get found, he was convicted a second time. He did
Speaker 7: not get manslaughter, even though he had been promised manslaughter.
Speaker 7: He had also been promised and enticed with the Webster
Speaker 7: family reward. So he had been certainly seduced to go
Speaker 7: along and give the state what they wanted.
Speaker 6: Now, what's your theory in this? That why police and
Speaker 6: prosecutors were so adamant in railroading parodise. So why were
Speaker 6: they so evident? Why were they put evidence aside just
Speaker 6: to be able to make this case work? What is
Speaker 6: your theory reasoning why they did that?
Speaker 7: Leonard Parodissa was a convenience scapegoat for them. And what
Speaker 7: I did not understand. I understood at the time that
Speaker 7: they found Joan's remains in nineteen ninety that this theory
Speaker 7: that they had promoted, this boat theory, was probably not
Speaker 7: the correct theory. They had the wrong guy. And I
Speaker 7: know that for certain things that I knew as a
Speaker 7: part of the immediate family. In nineteen eighty three, a
Speaker 7: grand jury had rejected the boat theory. So there was
Speaker 7: never a true bill handed down. No one was ever
Speaker 7: charged or tried for this crime. Joan had been found
Speaker 7: thirty miles from the alleged crime scene, and she had
Speaker 7: also not been dumped in Boston Harbor, So I knew
Speaker 7: that this indeed was not the correct answer for what
Speaker 7: had happened to Joan. But there was a great deal
Speaker 7: that I did not know. I could speculate about the
Speaker 7: time in Boston when things went on there. This was
Speaker 7: a very corrupt period in Boston's history. There was a
Speaker 7: lot of corruption. The FBI protected criminal informants. I had
Speaker 7: no idea the circumstances surrounding the Ayanuzi case or the
Speaker 7: exculpatory evidence that was available in that case but hidden
Speaker 7: in other case files. Basically, you've got a case here
Speaker 7: of public corruption. The authorities manufactured an explanation for Jones loss.
Speaker 7: Why would they do that, Well, you either have to
Speaker 7: look at them wanting to boost themselves as heroes finding
Speaker 7: the answers. But the Websters were extremely involved in this case.
Speaker 7: They were meeting with the FBI, they were corresponding with
Speaker 7: the FBI. I know personally that they were in Boston
Speaker 7: all the time. They had a heavy hand in the
Speaker 7: direction that this case took, and they also were the
Speaker 7: ones that were extremely influential for people to believe this.
Speaker 7: People sympathized with them. Here these parents have lost their daughter.
Speaker 7: If the Websters say they believe this, then people went
Speaker 7: along with it, and the authorities were going along with
Speaker 7: it as well. The authorities did one of two things.
Speaker 7: They either lied to the Websters or they lied for them.
Speaker 7: And going through and recovering the documents that I have,
Speaker 7: seeing the evidence that I have in my personal experiences
Speaker 7: with the Websters, I'm very concerned that it's the latter,
Speaker 7: because they are completely ignoring evidence that has come to
Speaker 7: light now and part of that evidence.
Speaker 6: Is Sorry, Fred, make it I just want to make
Speaker 6: it clear you're saying that that it's a cover up
Speaker 6: in terms of the Websters have lied.
Speaker 7: The Websters have not been honest. The Websters withheld evidence.
Speaker 7: One of the pieces of evidence that they withheld was
Speaker 7: a composite. It was speculated and spread a lot that
Speaker 7: Joan had just waved to a couple of friends and
Speaker 7: then vanished without a trace from Logan Airport on that
Speaker 7: Saturday night. That's not the case. There was a composite.
Speaker 7: A Cabby came forward, provided a description he had seen
Speaker 7: Joan with a man at the airport, and a composite
Speaker 7: was put together. I knew nothing about that composite until
Speaker 7: I started digging into this case. That composite was suppressed.
Speaker 7: It was never broadcast, it was never published. And that's
Speaker 7: not the normal behavior of authorities or the family. If
Speaker 7: you're looking for a missing person, the composite is frightening.
Speaker 7: I recovered it. It is in the book. I disclosed
Speaker 7: it in the book as well as comparison with someone
Speaker 7: that it looks very much like the Webster family withheld that.
Speaker 7: They also withheld George Webster's private phone number. So the
Speaker 7: family they twisted and distorted things as well. For example,
Speaker 7: Joan had just completed a project, it got spun, and
Speaker 7: all of a sudden, Joan is going back early. That's
Speaker 7: an explanation no one was going to dispute coming from
Speaker 7: the father. But his explanation was that she went back
Speaker 7: early to work on a project when that is just
Speaker 7: what she had just completed. A lot of little twists
Speaker 7: in there, And I mean, this is a family that
Speaker 7: has cia background. They're very good at creating perceptions.
Speaker 6: Now, you include a bunch of famous cases, including Casey Anthony,
Speaker 6: Drew Peterson, a bunch of cases, high profile cases that
Speaker 6: I'm sure you've included for some really good reason to
Speaker 6: demonstrate or illustrate the connection to this. So tell us
Speaker 6: why you did include those stories and what was the
Speaker 6: gist or what was the point in including those stories
Speaker 6: in this book.
Speaker 7: The reason I put those cases and listed them up
Speaker 7: front because people really need to stop and think how
Speaker 7: cases pan out. The majority of murder are committed by
Speaker 7: people that the victim knows, and in those cases where
Speaker 7: I've illustrated, sometimes there is a family connection. It is
Speaker 7: horrifying for us when we do realize. For example, the
Speaker 7: Casey Anthony case, she lied, she made up a story.
Speaker 7: When people understood that she had provided false information withheld information,
Speaker 7: she became a logical suspect. In her case, the police
Speaker 7: were not participating in fabricating and promoting that story. In
Speaker 7: this case, the police are the ones that are fabricading
Speaker 7: the story and promoting Leonard Parodiso as the culprit and
Speaker 7: the crime, when there's no evidence whatsoever that connects him
Speaker 7: to the crime at all. I've been through every single
Speaker 7: piece of so called evidence. I've been through the witnesses,
Speaker 7: I've been through the associated cases that were tied to
Speaker 7: Leonard Parodiso. It was a corrupted case. The legitimate investigators
Speaker 7: who might have gotten to the truth were taken down
Speaker 7: primrose path. Things were diverted. And give a good example
Speaker 7: in the epilogue of a book was written in two
Speaker 7: thousand and eight by the former prosecutor Tim Burke, who
Speaker 7: was assigned to the investigation. In the epilogue of his book,
Speaker 7: he lists a bankruptcy fraud case and he provides the
Speaker 7: name of Richard Stearns as the judge and gives the
Speaker 7: date of November one, nineteen eighty five. That's completely false
Speaker 7: information from sworn affi David's I can look in I
Speaker 7: can read that he instigated this case. He timber contacted
Speaker 7: the FBI, got them involved in a bankruptcy fraud case
Speaker 7: against Leonard Parodisso Leonard Parodiso had filed for bankruptcy in
Speaker 7: nineteen eighty one, in August of nineteen eighty one. Among
Speaker 7: the things that he did not list in his bankruptcy
Speaker 7: was the boat the alleged crime scene. And the authorities
Speaker 7: had the information right at the time that they came
Speaker 7: out with this theory. It's in documents, it's in sworn statements,
Speaker 7: it's in court records that they had knowledge that the
Speaker 7: boat had been reported missing. The trial that he misrepresents
Speaker 7: in his book actually took place in April of nineteen
Speaker 7: eighty five and Judge Bruce Elia in Rhode Island. The
Speaker 7: Federal District Court in Rhode Island, after reviewing all of
Speaker 7: the evidence, which was not contested at all, determined that
Speaker 7: the boat did not exist in August of nineteen eighty one,
Speaker 7: four months before Joan Webster disappeared, so the crime scene
Speaker 7: did not even exist. And yet they continued their media
Speaker 7: reports where both Tim Burke and the lead officer on
Speaker 7: the case, Andrew Palombo, got on TV continued to promote
Speaker 7: that Joan had been murdered on this boat dumped in
Speaker 7: Boston Harbor. It wasn't until nineteen ninety when her remains
Speaker 7: were found, that it shifted a little bit, and they suggested, well, yes,
Speaker 7: he murdered her on the boat, but then moved her
Speaker 7: thirty miles away and buried her. That's not even remotely possible.
Speaker 7: It's impossible. You can't murder someone on a boat that
Speaker 7: did not exist. And Tim Burke's two thousand and eight
Speaker 7: book indicates that his story still is, and the book
Speaker 7: was supported by the family, that Joan was murdered on
Speaker 7: this boat, and he gives a horribly graphic description of
Speaker 7: her being raped and murdered. What I'd like for listeners
Speaker 7: to know is how she was really found because it's
Speaker 7: equally as horrific, but it did not happen in the
Speaker 7: way that the family and the authorities describe. The way
Speaker 7: Joan Webster was found was she had a two by
Speaker 7: four inch hole in the side of her head. It
Speaker 7: took out the entire right side of her skull. That
Speaker 7: was an enormous blow with a bat, a crowbar, a limb,
Speaker 7: something that was swung with enormous force that cracked her
Speaker 7: skull and literally took out the entire right side. She
Speaker 7: had been stripped of. All clothing had been completely stripped.
Speaker 7: There was nothing in the area that was Jones, with
Speaker 7: the exception of a ring and a gold neck chain
Speaker 7: that was still on the skeleton. When they found the remains,
Speaker 7: she had been completely stripped and she was thrown out
Speaker 7: in a black plastic trash back. The family, after finding
Speaker 7: the remains and learning how their daughter had been murdered
Speaker 7: and disposed of, had her cremated and cremation in effect
Speaker 7: and I did not understand this until I dug into
Speaker 7: this case. Cremation effectively shuts down the investigation. The state
Speaker 7: can only release the body a murder victim for cremation
Speaker 7: after all legal avenues have been exhausted, and they never
Speaker 7: had an inquest against the men that they continued to
Speaker 7: accuse of the murder. They just shut down the case
Speaker 7: and then continued to accuse him.
Speaker 6: Let me ask this that I want to hear to
Speaker 6: explain to the audience that the dynamic present here. You're
Speaker 6: married to Jones's brother and Steve, and you're claiming that
Speaker 6: the family is hiding these secrets. You know their conditioned
Speaker 6: to do that. They're Cia, both the father and the mother,
Speaker 6: so the family has grown up with that. What is
Speaker 6: the dynamic between you and Steve based on your doubts
Speaker 6: about the family, And when exactly did you have this
Speaker 6: sort of moment where you said I got to get
Speaker 6: involved and tell us why you got involved? And when
Speaker 6: that one, I guess decisive moment came when you said
Speaker 6: I want to get involved here and I'm this story
Speaker 6: doesn't seem to make ring true and I'm going to
Speaker 6: become involved. And then what was the dynamic between you
Speaker 6: and Steve being her brother and part of this secretive
Speaker 6: Cia family.
Speaker 7: Steve and I were married for twenty five years. We
Speaker 7: divorced the end of two thousand and four. It was
Speaker 7: a mediation. There was no strain or dispute going back
Speaker 7: and forth. We just simply divided things. We had two daughters,
Speaker 7: and in two thousand and one I discovered a letter
Speaker 7: that my daughter had written. It was in a desk
Speaker 7: drawer and I found it trying to find car keys,
Speaker 7: probably the most numbing experience of my life. My daughter
Speaker 7: alleged in her letter, which has been authenticated and the
Speaker 7: implications verified by multiple people, that her father sexually abused her.
Speaker 7: I cannot prove or disprove that that happened, but what
Speaker 7: I can establish is that I immediately sought help to
Speaker 7: try and get to the truth, understand what my daughter's
Speaker 7: meaning was and what had happened. I know that the
Speaker 7: behaviors of my children. I have two daughters became very different,
Speaker 7: very different, very hostile, very angry, and their anger was
Speaker 7: directed at me. It was not something I could understand.
Speaker 7: The Webster family has a very strong image. People like them.
Speaker 7: They're fun to be around, they're interesting people, but it's
Speaker 7: not the dynamic of who they are behind closed doors,
Speaker 7: and what I found was a family that would not
Speaker 7: sit down and discuss the issues. I basically was alienated
Speaker 7: from my daughters, and I became a victim of being
Speaker 7: very devalued and literally discarded. When I started to dig
Speaker 7: into this case, it was my fervent hope that I
Speaker 7: would find something to justify the family's belief and support
Speaker 7: of Tim Burke's book, because they came out publicly supporting it.
Speaker 7: I had gone through a series of experiences with them
Speaker 7: that just didn't add up. And what I found when
Speaker 7: I dug into it was that their behaviors in Jones's
Speaker 7: case matched more the experience that I had than the
Speaker 7: experience that the public viewed of them looking for their daughter.
Speaker 7: They were not honest, they were not open. They will
Speaker 7: not discuss anything. I've already presented them with facts. If
Speaker 7: authorities lied to them, I'd be in their corner. One.
Speaker 7: This is a horrible, horrible nightmare to live through. To
Speaker 7: relive it going through these documents was equally as horrifying,
Speaker 7: but even more so seeing the deception that was going
Speaker 7: on and seeing a man frame. A man was framed,
Speaker 7: there was exculpatory evidence for him in the Ayonwsy case.
Speaker 7: They persecuted this man and went after him with a
Speaker 7: vengeance that's just unimaginable. The websters are very secretive that
Speaker 7: certainly comes out of the condition of their CIA and
Speaker 7: activities that they may have been involved in. They were
Speaker 7: not things that they discussed, but I can take personal
Speaker 7: knowledge and time and place of certain things and know
Speaker 7: that they certainly were aware, and they were in a
Speaker 7: time and a place to have been involved in some
Speaker 7: things that most people in a modern, decent, open society
Speaker 7: would not approve of. Whether they felt justified for that
Speaker 7: as part of the CIA, I don't know. I'm sure
Speaker 7: that they probably did, and I'm sure that family members Joan,
Speaker 7: the other sister, Anne, and Steve were all very conditioned
Speaker 7: to keep secrets, and that is what exists today. They
Speaker 7: are extremely co dependent. My children are in a position
Speaker 7: now where they believe that their sense of security is
Speaker 7: in keeping family secrets. I certainly don't agree with that.
Speaker 7: I know I understand it, but I certainly don't agree
Speaker 7: with that. When people have done things that are wrong,
Speaker 7: every victim should speak out.
Speaker 6: Now, let me ask this question in terms of Tim
Speaker 6: Burke's book, What does he claim is the motive behind
Speaker 6: Parodiso kidnapping Joan Webster? And then what do you think
Speaker 6: on once you tell us that motive, what do you
Speaker 6: think as a result in terms of what did your
Speaker 6: husband think of this motive that the family was supposedly
Speaker 6: supporting coming from timber and through his book, they.
Speaker 7: Are supporting the motive that this was a random act,
Speaker 7: that Joan was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Speaker 7: Leonard paredisso picked her up. They labeled him as a
Speaker 7: sexual predator, have gone to the point where they label
Speaker 7: him as a serial killer. Now I could find no
Speaker 7: evidence that he ever stepped.
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Speaker 7: Eighteenth Lass killed anybody. He did have scrapes with the law.
Speaker 7: He was a parole for an assault conviction.
Speaker 6: That's it.
Speaker 7: That's it. You know, he had an eighth grade education.
Speaker 7: He's not someone who could have gone out and just
Speaker 7: completely baffled everybody. Everyone the blood members of the family,
Speaker 7: both of Joanes's siblings and his father his mother is
Speaker 7: now deceased, are lockstep with that and won't discuss anything further.
Speaker 7: And as I found going through the records, there were
Speaker 7: authorities that had come forward to them and said this
Speaker 7: isn't right, and they didn't pay attention. They had decided
Speaker 7: in their minds this is what happened to her. Basically,
Speaker 7: it's their story and their sticking to it. They don't
Speaker 7: want people to dig into their closet. And unfortunately, I
Speaker 7: was someone who saw a different side of the Websters
Speaker 7: than what the public sees. And they are very image conscious,
Speaker 7: image managed moments. That's what I'm a casualty of. I
Speaker 7: knew too much about the family.
Speaker 6: Now, what year did you become involved in start and
Speaker 6: you know, undertake this incredible task of finding out the
Speaker 6: truth and digging in and doing the research and asking
Speaker 6: people and digging up unearthing some of this information. What
Speaker 6: year did you officially start that? And when did this book?
Speaker 6: When did you finally wrap up the book itself?
Speaker 7: I began to be really suspicious. When an article came
Speaker 7: out on November twenty eighth, two thousand and six, that
Speaker 7: was the twenty fifth anniversary of jones disappearance. I was
Speaker 7: going through enormous struggles with the Webster family, who had
Speaker 7: alienated not only myself but my entire side of the
Speaker 7: family from my children. The article came out with family support,
Speaker 7: and I knew at that point this was wrong. They
Speaker 7: are influencing my children to believe things that aren't real,
Speaker 7: or to go along with the family line. I started
Speaker 7: to dig into the case in two thousand and seven,
Speaker 7: didn't really get to records until maybe the middle of
Speaker 7: two thousand and eight and into two thousand and nine.
Speaker 7: I hired a private investigator and an attorney in Boston
Speaker 7: to help me. All the records have been procured in
Speaker 7: a very proper way and are verifiable, and I got
Speaker 7: to thousands of pages of records. Fortunately, having been part
Speaker 7: of the family, I think I even understood to look
Speaker 7: in a couple of places that other people had not.
Speaker 7: I retrieved police records from glen Ridge, New Jersey, which
Speaker 7: was the hometown. I found a great deal of information there,
Speaker 7: including the composite that had been suppressed and learned once
Speaker 7: I got into that that the family had that composite
Speaker 7: in the first couple of weeks of jones disappearance, and
Speaker 7: I didn't know about it until two thousand and nine.
Speaker 7: And the image in that composite is extremely frightening. It
Speaker 7: resembles the lead officer who was involved in the case.
Speaker 6: Well, that's interesting.
Speaker 7: Yeah. As I started to dig into it, I understood
Speaker 7: I had to go back and research the climate in
Speaker 7: Boston at that time. Both the DA's office that was
Speaker 7: involved for Tim Burke worked suffocantic. DA's office had been
Speaker 7: exposed in nineteen ninety one for corrupt cases that covered
Speaker 7: the years that they were investigating Leonard Pardiso in nineteen
Speaker 7: eighty to nineteen eighty eight. His situation fell right in
Speaker 7: the middle of it, and they had corrupted cases the
Speaker 7: FBI that was the Whitey Bulger era. They protected criminal
Speaker 7: informants in one of the I learned in digging into
Speaker 7: this case that there was a confidential source providing false
Speaker 7: information to the FBI about Jones's case. That's the individual
Speaker 7: who also resembles the composite. I was able to determine
Speaker 7: through other sources who indeed that was and it wasn't
Speaker 7: even that difficult to figure out because I could see
Speaker 7: what information was being provided. The Robert Bond statement claiming
Speaker 7: Joan was murdered on the boat and dumped in Boston Harbor.
Speaker 7: There was a confidential source reporting on a gun that
Speaker 7: they miraculously discovered under where Piediso's boat had been sunk,
Speaker 7: even though the legitimate investigators had missed it for two months.
Speaker 7: The confidential source provided information to find a witness, a
Speaker 7: woman named Charlene Bullerwell, who gave incredible testimony. And I'll
Speaker 7: never forget the day that this article landed on my
Speaker 7: kitchen counter. This woman claimed that Leonard Pardissa was a
Speaker 7: hit man for the mob. He chopped up bodies, tied
Speaker 7: cinder blocks to them, and dump them in the ocean.
Speaker 7: For years, I spent vacations looking in the water, wondering
Speaker 7: if Joan was down there. That's a horrible thing to
Speaker 7: do to people. And there's nothing that cor operates that
Speaker 7: story whatsoever. The interesting thing in FBI files was that
Speaker 7: Tim Burke claimed that Charlene Bullerwell they had a photograph
Speaker 7: of her wearing Joan's missing bracelet. To my knowledge, the
Speaker 7: bracelet was never found, but the only people who could
Speaker 7: identify that bracelet were the websters. So why did tim
Speaker 7: Burke claim that this woman was wearing Joan's bracelet? The
Speaker 7: pieces didn't add up, but all the little tiny little
Speaker 7: tweaks in things you know, to be honest, I think
Speaker 7: tim Burke was manipulated. He may have legitimately believed that
Speaker 7: Parody Said was responsible for murdering Joan early on, so
Speaker 7: he was willing to pervert another case to nail him.
Speaker 7: They had absolutely nothing to go after him for for Joan, nothing,
Speaker 7: All of the evidence was manufactured.
Speaker 6: So could the prosecutor have convinced the family? Again, it's
Speaker 6: a confluence of events here and motivations and reasonings why
Speaker 6: people do things. But would the family then possibly been
Speaker 6: convinced by the prosecutor too that despite some holes in
Speaker 6: some of this and lack of evidence, that certainly this
Speaker 6: was their culprit And again with the CIA background, did
Speaker 6: the family not believe that there was some that it
Speaker 6: just happened to be this guy working for the mob
Speaker 6: or capable of doing such an atrocious crime, would have
Speaker 6: no connection with them as CIA personnel.
Speaker 7: I'm not sure in looking through the records, how I
Speaker 7: can believe that they were lied to so convincingly. Tim
Speaker 7: Burke was not the least bit convincing his prime suspect,
Speaker 7: a man that he pursued for years, Leonard Parediso, when
Speaker 7: he published his book for the first edition that came out,
Speaker 7: suggested or said that Leonard Parediso was born in Italy.
Speaker 7: Leonard Paredisa was born in Boston. That was extremely easy
Speaker 7: to find out. Tim Burke had to have had his
Speaker 7: back covered to publish this book because the documents did
Speaker 7: exist to refute what he was coming out and suggesting.
Speaker 7: He suggests that he wrote the book at the encouragement
Speaker 7: of the Websters. He says that in his epilogue of
Speaker 7: the book, the family went and visited him in two
Speaker 7: thousand and five, and after that he came out and
Speaker 7: wrote the book. I can't figure out why that would
Speaker 7: convince them, you know, why he would be so convincing
Speaker 7: to them. None of the evidence snatched up whatsoever? You know,
Speaker 7: is it possible that they withheld information from them about
Speaker 7: the boat, not existing findings from the trial that took
Speaker 7: place in Rhode Island in nineteen eighty five. It's possible
Speaker 7: I was lied to, So I mean, I certainly can
Speaker 7: understand someone being lied to. They were very close to it.
Speaker 7: They seemed to have their hands in everything that was
Speaker 7: going on. They even drove up to summers in Connecticut
Speaker 7: in nineteen eighty seven at a time when there was
Speaker 7: a push to try and get Robert Bond, the two
Speaker 7: time convicted murderer who was their informant, to testify and
Speaker 7: take parodies of the trial in Jones's case. That was
Speaker 7: before her remains were found. If they were going to
Speaker 7: do it, they had to have Robert Bond. The Webster
Speaker 7: family was involved every step of the way. One of
Speaker 7: the things I found inappropriate in there was the fact
Speaker 7: that the Websters received an assurance from another witness that
Speaker 7: the state used a man by the name of Tony Pisa.
Speaker 7: Tony Pisa was a man who was once on death row.
Speaker 7: He came forward with a story that was completely unverifiable.
Speaker 7: It was a he said, situation, no way to verify
Speaker 7: it whatsoever, and pretty far fetched. And that man's a
Speaker 7: freeman today. He got out of jail, and he made
Speaker 7: assurances to George Webster that he wasn't really interested in
Speaker 7: the reward money for coming out and talking. It was
Speaker 7: the witnesses such as those Robert Bond and Tony Pisa
Speaker 7: that convicted Leonard Peredisso in the Ayanusi case, there were
Speaker 7: only three people that suggested that Parodiso was involved in
Speaker 7: both crimes. That was Robert Bond, Tony Pisa and the
Speaker 7: woman who placed the anonymous phone call.
Speaker 6: Right now, in all of this, you've published your book.
Speaker 6: What does your husband have to say? What is his
Speaker 6: reaction in terms of your investigation, in terms of your book,
Speaker 6: and in terms of your allegations.
Speaker 7: I have tried to ask the Webster's questions all along
Speaker 7: the way, and they knew I was digging into this.
Speaker 7: I have been a little bit surprised by the reaction.
Speaker 7: As I said, my initial hope was to find something
Speaker 7: that justified the Webster's coming out and supporting this theory,
Speaker 7: the boat theory. The reactions have been very unusual, to
Speaker 7: say the least. I have been harassed, I have been threatened,
Speaker 7: and those are things that can be tied directly back
Speaker 7: to the Websters. Steve's sister Anne has threaten sent some
Speaker 7: very harassing emails, and George Webster, Jones' father As of
Speaker 7: Christmas twenty twelve, Christmas Night and I listed several things
Speaker 7: where there were discrepancies in the records versus what they
Speaker 7: were supporting. I asked to sit down in a proper
Speaker 7: setting to discuss them, and he was very juvenile, name calling, harassing, threatening,
Speaker 7: vulgar language, and his last line in the email to
Speaker 7: me was die. That to me is a very threatening
Speaker 7: comment to come from my former father in law who
Speaker 7: I lived through this experience with them, and here his
Speaker 7: daughter is was brutally murdered. The case has never been solved.
Speaker 7: I've dug out information, it's all verifiable, and he wishes
Speaker 7: me to die. The Webster family wants to support that
Speaker 7: Joan was murdered in a random way, you know, wrong place,
Speaker 7: at the wrong time, picked up by this man, murdered
Speaker 7: on his boat, and that's impossible. The boat did not exist.
Speaker 6: Now, without giving without giving away everything that's in the book,
Speaker 6: in terms of your conclusions, point our audience that's been
Speaker 6: listening so far in the direction of where you think,
Speaker 6: where you think the motive lied.
Speaker 7: In terms of her murder, the motive certainly has to
Speaker 7: do with secrets in the family. The family secrecy, whether
Speaker 7: that's their business involvement or personal things. I can't say specifically,
Speaker 7: although I have reason to be concerned about their personal
Speaker 7: behavior within the family. I certainly am concerned for the
Speaker 7: safety and well being of my children. If the family
Speaker 7: is certainly complicit in covering up this crime, there is
Speaker 7: no question they are obstructing justice at this point in time.
Speaker 7: If they had involvement in the crime, then that puts
Speaker 7: my children at risk, and it certainly put me at risk.
Speaker 7: Their secrecy about what was going on in the investigation
Speaker 7: and being truthful about what the evidence was, who legitimate
Speaker 7: suspects were, and what not. It frightening. And if you've
Speaker 7: got someone who is involved in the investigation who's equally
Speaker 7: as interested in keeping a lid on this case, is
Speaker 7: certainly explains the dynamics of what's going on. That's where
Speaker 7: the piece is fit. And it's a case of public corruption.
Speaker 7: As far as the story that was contrived, whether the
Speaker 7: Websters were involved or not involved, that's something that a
Speaker 7: legitimate investigation needs to research. I spoke with Special Agent
Speaker 7: Michael Carraza in the Public Corruptions Unit of the FBI,
Speaker 7: and he indicated to me that the first thing in
Speaker 7: any case that should be done is for the family
Speaker 7: to be looked at. That's true in any case, that
Speaker 7: never happened. In this case, George Webster took over the investigation.
Speaker 7: He really ran the show. And because of the Webster's influence,
Speaker 7: being very available to the media, constantly making comments, they
Speaker 7: sat through the Ayan Easy trial. They were constantly in
Speaker 7: the public's eye as a grieving family looking for their daughter,
Speaker 7: naming Parodiso as the culprit. It influenced a lot of
Speaker 7: lives and in very negative ways. So yeah, the family,
Speaker 7: the family needs to answer some questions.
Speaker 6: Now, you say the family had access to media, and
Speaker 6: the media utilized statements from George and from the family.
Speaker 6: How about your book and again the statements and facts
Speaker 6: that you have unearthed and the allegations that you have made,
Speaker 6: especially including the family. What is the media that same
Speaker 6: media's response to your book. Has it been lukewarm? Has
Speaker 6: it been cold? Has it been warm? What's been the reception?
Speaker 7: It's been very cold, And I think part of the
Speaker 7: reason is the influence of the authorities out east. They
Speaker 7: don't want this case opened up. I provided the assistant
Speaker 7: district because I've approached going through proper channels as anyone
Speaker 7: as a witness, should going to proper authorities. They've been
Speaker 7: provided documents. It's steering them right in the face. They
Speaker 7: have no answers for it. But what has happened as
Speaker 7: a result of it A confidential piece of information that
Speaker 7: I provided the current assistant d'a who is custodian of
Speaker 7: Jones files, as well as three Massachusetts state troopers. I
Speaker 7: provided them with confidential information. That information was then later
Speaker 7: distorted and misrepresented to the public to paint me in
Speaker 7: a very negative way. I tried to come forward with
Speaker 7: documents at the Massachusetts Parole Board in twenty eleven to
Speaker 7: give a victim impact statement regarding Robert Bond. I had
Speaker 7: his written statement about what happened to Joan. I had
Speaker 7: his testimony. I'd met with him face to face. I
Speaker 7: know that his statement was false, and authorities have known
Speaker 7: it was false at the time that they took it.
Speaker 7: I provided documentations to fully support my statement. I was
Speaker 7: not allowed to make this statement. I'm properly certified with
Speaker 7: a Department of Corrections. But people got on the phones
Speaker 7: and they were talking to each other. They blocked me
Speaker 7: from coming forward and speaking out. This book really came
Speaker 7: to fruition because it had to come out. There has
Speaker 7: to be public awareness. If you've got a case that
Speaker 7: is controlled by people with an interest to hide it
Speaker 7: and cover it up, because there's a pretty big history
Speaker 7: in Boston of just this type of thing, then you've
Speaker 7: got a system, a totally dysfunctional system that does not work,
Speaker 7: that can leave people victimized all over the place. And
Speaker 7: if I go back to my children and the allegations
Speaker 7: that my daughter made, if that's the kind of abuse
Speaker 7: in violence within a family where they've got an unresive
Speaker 7: what are the dire consequences of lying and covering up
Speaker 7: crime who they have hurt along the way. I'll protect
Speaker 7: my children and I'll be as bold as I need to.
Speaker 7: I have documents to back me up. And this is
Speaker 7: an incredible case.
Speaker 6: Now did you were they able to point at your
Speaker 6: particular situation of alleging that your husband abused your child
Speaker 6: based on this letter? Are they seeing this as this
Speaker 6: extreme case of sour grapes that you have this allegation
Speaker 6: and then a belief and then it grows into an
Speaker 6: overall belief that they could cover up something of even
Speaker 6: a you know, more grievous nature like murder of the
Speaker 6: daughter Joan. So did they were they able to include
Speaker 6: all this and sort of give it as some sort
Speaker 6: of a testament that you might not be credible because
Speaker 6: of it.
Speaker 7: I've had a lot of people make that judgment and
Speaker 7: think that I have a type of character that I
Speaker 7: would ever make up any sort of thing against my
Speaker 7: ex or my family. No, these were people that I
Speaker 7: loved and trusted, and they know me as a person
Speaker 7: with a strongcore and a strong character. Is that what's
Speaker 7: being portrayed. Yes, I didn't make the allegations against my
Speaker 7: ex husband. My child did. That letter has been authenticated
Speaker 7: and verified by three counselors, three counselors that were working
Speaker 7: with the family. It's been reported to the police. It's
Speaker 7: in a police file. It's become part of the public
Speaker 7: record in a court case a contempt hearing I had
Speaker 7: against my ex husband. Even my ex husband had verified
Speaker 7: that letter as well as my child's sister in writing.
Speaker 7: Those are all things that I have. They're documented the
Speaker 7: FBI here in my locale. Here when I received a
Speaker 7: threatening email from George Webster, the FBI agent looked at
Speaker 7: all three components that I was dealing with, Because I'm
Speaker 7: really dealing with three things here. I'm dealing with allegations
Speaker 7: that my child made and I as a mother standing
Speaker 7: up for her, which God only hopes that every period
Speaker 7: that would come across such a night as would try
Speaker 7: and stand up for their child. That's number one. The
Speaker 7: second part of it that I'm dealing with are the
Speaker 7: unique background of this family, how they deal with things,
Speaker 7: their dysfunction to be able to sit down and discuss things.
Speaker 7: They're alienating and devaluing behavior that's not treatment I deserved
Speaker 7: in any way, shape or form. People did know me.
Speaker 7: And the third factor is an unresolved murder in the
Speaker 7: family where the family is supporting and impossible theory, and
Speaker 7: there are documents, court records, police reports, an abundance of
Speaker 7: records that support that this is a false assertion that
Speaker 7: is still being promoted by the state and the family.
Speaker 7: So yeah, the FBI agents that looked at those three
Speaker 7: components indicated that my child's letter should have been investigated
Speaker 7: and asked if that was something to pursue at this time.
Speaker 7: They're both adults. Now. I've been trying to deal with that,
Speaker 7: and that was the first and foremost thing I tried
Speaker 7: to deal with for many years without really making the
Speaker 7: connection other than the behaviors just didn't add up, you know,
Speaker 7: the behaviors, the image of a family looking for their
Speaker 7: missing daughter, and the image of this family basically eliminating
Speaker 7: me because I was not one who was just going
Speaker 7: to close my lips and not try and help my
Speaker 7: child understand what was wrong and get her the proper health.
Speaker 7: I was driven from my children and in a pretty
Speaker 7: brutal way. You know, I have no animus. I'm angry.
Speaker 7: I'm very angry. The family was not honest and they're
Speaker 7: still not being honest. You can't ignore facts to suggest
Speaker 7: that they don't exist. Ignoring things does not change the facts.
Speaker 7: And the facts are in the documents, and I've gotten
Speaker 7: abundance of them, and many have been provided to many
Speaker 7: different departments. I just recently received a letter from Governor
Speaker 7: Chris Christie as well as from his Attorney General's office.
Speaker 7: I appeal to Governor Christie to look into this case
Speaker 7: because Joan was a New Jersey resident legally, she was
Speaker 7: a student in Cambridge, Massachusetts, but she was a legal
Speaker 7: resident of the state of New Jersey at her parents'
Speaker 7: home at the time and this crime happened. He took
Speaker 7: it seriously and forwarded information to his attorney general. His
Speaker 7: attorney general did write me back that they felt the
Speaker 7: more appropriate place for it to be investigated is with
Speaker 7: the attorney general in Massachusetts. Martha Cokeley already denied a
Speaker 7: request to try and look into this, and she has
Speaker 7: an unusual relationship with Tim Burke. She was named as
Speaker 7: someone who had made a verbal agreement entitling him to
Speaker 7: some very valuable beach property that he's trying to fight
Speaker 7: for right now against the city of Marshfield, Massachusetts. So
Speaker 7: you know, you got a good old boys club out
Speaker 7: there where people will cover for each other rather than explain.
Speaker 7: Tell me how mister Paradiso could have murdered my sister
Speaker 7: in law on a boat that didn't exist. I want
Speaker 7: people to go back and focus on the facts, and
Speaker 7: if there's an explanation for it, it certainly would have
Speaker 7: come out by now. If they had a real justification
Speaker 7: for implicating this man, it would have come out by now.
Speaker 7: Because there's been plenty of heat to get to the
Speaker 7: truth in this, and what they seem more interested in
Speaker 7: is trying to keep me quiet. That's why this book
Speaker 7: had to come out.
Speaker 6: Now. Is that the new development that you positive development
Speaker 6: that you were talking about before the interview.
Speaker 7: One of the new developments was hearing back from Governor
Speaker 7: Christi and from his attorney general. Another thing that happened
Speaker 7: since this book has come out. The woman who placed
Speaker 7: the anonymous phone call in January of nineteen eighty two
Speaker 7: implicating Leonard Parodiso for both the Maria Nuzi murder and
Speaker 7: for Jones disappearance. She verified that she placed that anonymous call. Now,
Speaker 7: she did that, but at the same time she also
Speaker 7: disputed something that's in court records rec and I do
Speaker 7: have it documented in my book. Tim Burke claimed that
Speaker 7: she placed an anonymous call to the Websters as well,
Speaker 7: implicating Parodiso for jones murder. She claimed she did not
Speaker 7: make that call. Well, one of the two of them
Speaker 7: is lying. Either Tim Burke manufactured a story or he's
Speaker 7: got to discredit his witness, who she was never a
Speaker 7: credible witness to begin with. This was a ten year
Speaker 7: old allegation with absolutely nothing to support it. She went
Speaker 7: in and made up a story. What was interesting is
Speaker 7: that she was an acquaintance. She grew up with not
Speaker 7: only Leonard Parodiso, but she also grew up with one
Speaker 7: of the police officers who was very integrally involved in
Speaker 7: this case. Man by the name of Sark Carmen S Merrow,
Speaker 7: who was the lead officer's superior and he was very
Speaker 7: involved in this case. Robert Bond, the convicted murderer that
Speaker 7: they got to make a statement, was led through an
Speaker 7: interview by Carmen to Morrow, and when he was disgruntled
Speaker 7: with his outcome, not getting the things that he felt
Speaker 7: he had been promised, he named he filed a motion
Speaker 7: with the court and he named specific names. He named
Speaker 7: Tim Burke making promises, he named Andrew Palumbo making promises.
Speaker 7: He named Carmen to Merrow making promises, and that document
Speaker 7: is actually in the book. I do have a few
Speaker 7: documents that I've put in the back of the book.
Speaker 7: There are so many more that it was impossible to
Speaker 7: put everything in there. But I am posting some things
Speaker 7: up online on a Facebook book page about this case
Speaker 7: so that people can truly see that I'm not out.
Speaker 7: I'm out to get to the truth, and I'm out
Speaker 7: to get to the truth for two very important reasons.
Speaker 7: My children's well being in safety number one, and the
Speaker 7: only thing that you can ever give to a deceased
Speaker 7: member of your family the truth. That's the only way
Speaker 7: you can value and respect their lives. Joan was an
Speaker 7: incredible person, a wonderful person, and if indeed, you know,
Speaker 7: she was about to spill the family secrets, perhaps to
Speaker 7: me I was pregnant at that time. Perhaps she wanted
Speaker 7: to tell me about, you know, the way this family
Speaker 7: encouraged or forced secrecy within the family. You know, I
Speaker 7: haven't the most admiration for her, and she has been
Speaker 7: a guiding force to really relive this whole experience all
Speaker 7: over again, and it's been a nightmare all over again.
Speaker 7: When I saw a picture of Joan's skull compared to
Speaker 7: you know, what was described to me what had happened
Speaker 7: to her, and I could see for myself the skull,
Speaker 7: there was no way that she was hit in the
Speaker 7: head with a whiskey bottle in a cramped little boat cabin,
Speaker 7: and by that point I knew that the boat didn't exist.
Speaker 7: I couldn't get out of bed for two days. You know,
Speaker 7: this has been an enormous amount of grief to deal with.
Speaker 7: But I'm a rock solid person, and if anyone chooses
Speaker 7: to question or challenge, I'm happy to go through that process.
Speaker 7: I'm happy to go through that process with the documents,
Speaker 7: and unfortunately the authorities who should be interested in the
Speaker 7: truth are not the ones doing it. But other measures
Speaker 7: have been taken. I am waiting a response for a
Speaker 7: complaint that was filed to try and have this case
Speaker 7: removed from its current jurisdiction because they're not legitimately looking
Speaker 7: at this case.
Speaker 6: It's interesting too that the family decided to do the
Speaker 6: cremation look for any kind of you know, like some
Speaker 6: things like a rape kit don't work after years and years,
Speaker 6: but if there was some obvious sexual assault. You say,
Speaker 6: the body was found naked, no clothing whatsoever. But it
Speaker 6: is very curious and telling that the body that the
Speaker 6: family would create this their daughter basically without doing that,
Speaker 6: you would think they would want to have some answers,
Speaker 6: whatever answers they could derive from that autopsy.
Speaker 7: Yeah, and I mean they did. It was the remains
Speaker 7: went through a couple of months of forensic testing. I
Speaker 7: remember it seeming like an eternity before her remains were
Speaker 7: released and we buried her. And there's another very unusual point,
Speaker 7: her sister Anne did not come back for her sister's interment.
Speaker 7: Was just Steve and myself Jones's parents and the choir
Speaker 7: director from their church. That's it. That is, we were
Speaker 7: the only ones grave side, and that always bothered me
Speaker 7: since this has been going on. You know, you asked
Speaker 7: about some of the family's reactions. When I recruit recovered
Speaker 7: FBI files, I found an incident in those files that
Speaker 7: I'd known about as part of the immediate family. But
Speaker 7: it was something that was never published in the press.
Speaker 7: It's never been I mean numerous books have talked about
Speaker 7: this case, at least five books that I'm aware of,
Speaker 7: but this was something that was never discussed in any
Speaker 7: of these books, and that was an extortion incident that
Speaker 7: took place in October of nineteen eighty two. I had
Speaker 7: a second miscarriage shortly after that incident happened. I mean,
Speaker 7: these were things that were very hard on you, emotionally
Speaker 7: and physically. It was a very draining period. It went
Speaker 7: on for years and years. I asked about that extortion
Speaker 7: incident because no one had ever been charged for that.
Speaker 7: I was curious about it. I had asked the DA's
Speaker 7: office about it. My ex husband lied to my brother
Speaker 7: and told him he didn't know of anything about anything
Speaker 7: like that. Couldn't think of anything that even remotely was
Speaker 7: like that at all. That conversation was taped, so I
Speaker 7: have him on record. You don't forget when your father
Speaker 7: is wired and you're put in a wired car and
Speaker 7: you're traveling across state lines with an extortionist and driven
Speaker 7: to a bogus address. The man by the name of
Speaker 7: Harvey Martel was taken to the FBI headquarters where he
Speaker 7: was questioned, wouldn't answer questions, and then was released, never charged.
Speaker 7: It was in the FBI files and one of the
Speaker 7: copies one of the reports was initial by William H. Webster,
Speaker 7: who at that time was the director of the FBI,
Speaker 7: So this had extremely high visibility. So yeah, you know,
Speaker 7: to repeat an incident like that sounds pretty crazy, You're
Speaker 7: pretty sensational, unless you could back it up. And it
Speaker 7: wasn't until I got into the FBI records that I
Speaker 7: certainly was able to back it up and have been
Speaker 7: able to corroberate it in other files as well.
Speaker 6: Now, you know, it's interesting you talk about all the
Speaker 6: time that has elapsed, and some people might say, geez,
Speaker 6: this woman isn't giving up. She's relentless. We just talked
Speaker 6: about the media's sort of lukewarm or kind of cool
Speaker 6: attention to this, we'll say in terms of interesting. But
Speaker 6: I would say that you would not be the first
Speaker 6: person that, even though it's twenty five years and it
Speaker 6: looks like nobody wants to remember this, that there are
Speaker 6: people out there, very much like this audience that is
Speaker 6: interested in these kinds of cases. And I applaud you
Speaker 6: for this very concise, very very I mean, no one
Speaker 6: can you know, characterize you as going off on a
Speaker 6: tangent or hysterical or you're very, very logical. And this
Speaker 6: book is very like a historical legal document, so it's
Speaker 6: not so much opinion. It's here are the facts, as
Speaker 6: many as you could dig up to point in a
Speaker 6: direction away from the official story. So I applaud you
Speaker 6: with this effort, and I think just hang in there.
Speaker 6: I think you're gonna I mean, there are some promising signs.
Speaker 7: So yeah, I'm chipping away. And as I said, the
Speaker 7: book is really Wittes's testimony, and at least that's how
Speaker 7: I view it. And in addition, I'm pursuing the little
Speaker 7: avenues that I have that I can think of, and
Speaker 7: I've I feel like I've earned a couple of extra
Speaker 7: degrees along the way, just trying to figure out how
Speaker 7: how do you unravel a case like this. I mean
Speaker 7: I was half the country away and you know, more
Speaker 7: than a quarter century trying to figure out what really happened.
Speaker 7: You know, I have really had to dig, and I've
Speaker 7: had to dig hard. I know I've hit nerves. I mean,
Speaker 7: my heart would break for the Webster family if they
Speaker 7: were lied to and they truly believed it. But you
Speaker 7: have to look at their inability, their dysfunction to discuss
Speaker 7: anything other than Nope, this is what happened, and to
Speaker 7: devalue and besmirch anyone who disagrees with what they say,
Speaker 7: and that it's a patriarchal family. That is kind of
Speaker 7: how he operated. Only I didn't grow up that way.
Speaker 7: I grew up to be an independent thinker get the
Speaker 7: facts for myself. And what I learned and what I
Speaker 7: uncovered was not at all what I was led to
Speaker 7: believe at the time. And it's heartbreaking.
Speaker 6: Yes, I want to congratulate you on this and coming
Speaker 6: on and doing this great interview about mummies and mole
Speaker 6: unraveling to Joan Webster murder and other secrets in a
Speaker 6: CIA family. Now Eve for those that have listened to
Speaker 6: the program and they might want to contact you to
Speaker 6: maybe give you some information or contact you further. You
Speaker 6: said you had a Facebook page, a fan page for
Speaker 6: this book. Tell us how people might be able to
Speaker 6: contact you if they're so inclined.
Speaker 7: Okay, I'll give you two websites. One is the Facebook page,
Speaker 7: and that's www dot facebook dot com. Backslash mole m
Speaker 7: O L E Eve Carson E C A R S
Speaker 7: O N. That's the book web page. You can also
Speaker 7: go to the actual book website, which is www. Mommiesomole
Speaker 7: dot com. There actually is contact information there, both an email,
Speaker 7: Twitter and a post office box. I would welcome anyone
Speaker 7: who has even if it's suggestions on who do you
Speaker 7: turn to as a private citizen when you find corruption
Speaker 7: with the authorities in seeking justice for a case, anyone
Speaker 7: who's got advice, things that they've experienced themselves, thoughts am.
Speaker 7: I welcome it all, and I appreciate the time you've
Speaker 7: given me to talk about this case. It's a tough case,
Speaker 7: but you know it's one where you know, everybody should
Speaker 7: be concerned. If you've got authorities that can do this
Speaker 7: to people's lives, they continue to devalue Joan that she
Speaker 7: certainly does not deserve that, and if the consequences of
Speaker 7: their misconduct, their corruption to throw off a case resulted
Speaker 7: in harm to my children, my children should be facing
Speaker 7: off with the State of Massachusetts themselves, but they need
Speaker 7: support behind them to be able to speak as victims.
Speaker 6: Yes, well, thank you for this book, and I'm continuing
Speaker 6: the fight to find out the actual truth about your
Speaker 6: sister in law. Joan Webbsy said. She was a great
Speaker 6: person and everyone deserves the truth about what happened to them,
Speaker 6: especially when they die such a horrible, horrible death, and
Speaker 6: there's so many people that did love them. So I
Speaker 6: want to thank you very much and wish you the
Speaker 6: best of luck with this fight. Thank you very much,
Speaker 6: Eve Carson for coming on and talking about mummies and more.
Speaker 7: Thank you very much.
Speaker 6: Dan, have a good night.
Speaker 7: Thank you too.
Speaker 6: Good night. H