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Welcome to 21 00:00:59.679 --> 00:01:01.200 the vdW group. 22 00:01:01.280 --> 00:01:03.039 NOPERD is necessary if we were privateted by loss he 23 00:01:03.119 --> 00:01:04.319 terms and conditions eighteen plus. 24 00:01:05.719 --> 00:01:19.159 Love you are now listening to True Murder The most 25 00:01:19.159 --> 00:01:22.560 shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that 26 00:01:22.640 --> 00:01:28.879 have written about them. Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. 27 00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:33.560 Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking 28 00:01:33.680 --> 00:01:37.840 and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with 29 00:01:37.879 --> 00:01:52.000 your host journalist and author Dan Zupanski, Good Evening. 30 00:01:53.599 --> 00:01:57.359 Karen Wolfe Srgan walked her dogs in April eighteenth, nineteen 31 00:01:57.480 --> 00:02:02.200 ninety on her remote wooded property on Chebacco Road. The 32 00:02:02.319 --> 00:02:07.200 veterinarian spotted a white sphere obstructing a drainage ditch. When 33 00:02:07.239 --> 00:02:10.439 she reached to dislodge it, she reeled back in horror. 34 00:02:10.879 --> 00:02:13.680 She immediately called the police. I saw something in the 35 00:02:13.680 --> 00:02:16.520 woods that looked like a punched in volleyball, Karen told 36 00:02:16.560 --> 00:02:20.120 the Beverly Times on April twenty fifth, nineteen ninety I 37 00:02:20.159 --> 00:02:22.080 looked closer and it was a human skull. It had 38 00:02:22.120 --> 00:02:26.159 suture like zigzag lines those are unique to human skulls. 39 00:02:27.199 --> 00:02:30.039 Officer Hathfiell was the first to respond. An initial conclusion 40 00:02:30.080 --> 00:02:34.240 determined discovery was indeed a human skull. Hamilton Police Chief 41 00:02:34.280 --> 00:02:37.439 Walter Cullen arrived at the scene next and photographed to find. 42 00:02:38.159 --> 00:02:41.560 The Massachusetts State Police Crime Prevention and Control Unit Sea 43 00:02:41.639 --> 00:02:46.680 Pack dismatched Colonel Dennis Marx to take charge of Corporal 44 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:49.560 Denis Marks to take charge of the crime scene. Local 45 00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:52.319 police sent the skull in a nearby black boot to 46 00:02:52.719 --> 00:02:55.719 Hunt Memorial Hospital to examine, but nothing else service in 47 00:02:55.759 --> 00:02:58.879 the initial surfaced. In the initial cursory search of the 48 00:02:58.879 --> 00:03:02.479 surrounding area. Noticees went out to departments to assist the 49 00:03:02.520 --> 00:03:05.800 resident force, and names poured in to compare the cranium 50 00:03:05.800 --> 00:03:09.680 to known missing persons. Joan Webster's name appeared on the list, 51 00:03:09.719 --> 00:03:12.759 but the resting spot was more than thirty miles from 52 00:03:12.759 --> 00:03:15.800 the long speculated crime zcene at Peer seven in Boston. 53 00:03:16.560 --> 00:03:18.800 Of course, it's being checked out, but the location doesn't 54 00:03:18.840 --> 00:03:23.120 seem to correlate. Circumstances pointed to her being taken out 55 00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:25.840 in a boat and dumped at sea. The book that 56 00:03:25.879 --> 00:03:29.560 we're featuring this evening is Mummies a Mole, Unraveling the 57 00:03:29.639 --> 00:03:34.120 Joan Webster Murder and other Secrets in a CIA Family 58 00:03:34.479 --> 00:03:38.680 with my special guest journalist and author Eve Carson. Welcome 59 00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:40.919 to the program and thank you for agreeing to this interview. 60 00:03:41.120 --> 00:03:42.080 Eve Carson, Thank you. 61 00:03:42.560 --> 00:03:44.319 I appreciate being here very much. 62 00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:48.439 Thank you very much. This is a great thank you. 63 00:03:49.639 --> 00:03:54.360 This is a very interesting, unique story and a quite 64 00:03:54.439 --> 00:03:58.159 complicated story, as we spoke about just before the program started. 65 00:03:58.759 --> 00:04:01.800 So let's get into a little bit of who the 66 00:04:01.879 --> 00:04:06.680 major players are in this, and let's start with basically, 67 00:04:07.039 --> 00:04:10.680 give us what your background is and when you met 68 00:04:10.680 --> 00:04:14.719 your husband and before you met the family of the 69 00:04:14.759 --> 00:04:17.959 Webster family itself. Tell us a little bit about yourself 70 00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:21.480 and a little bit about your background, and then proceed 71 00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:22.279 from there a little bit. 72 00:04:22.959 --> 00:04:27.240 Okay, I grew up in Danville, Illinois. It's a small 73 00:04:27.319 --> 00:04:30.959 town in the Midwest. Most of my upbringing is in 74 00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:35.600 the Midwest. Went to college at Purdue University, graduate of 75 00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:39.920 nineteen seventy four in economics and industrial management. Not exactly 76 00:04:39.959 --> 00:04:43.399 the background one might think of for delving into an 77 00:04:43.399 --> 00:04:47.639 old murder case, but certainly this one has very significant 78 00:04:47.639 --> 00:04:53.519 importance for me. Met my husband after I'd graduated from college. 79 00:04:53.560 --> 00:04:57.759 He'd gone to college in Lake Forest, Illinois, and met 80 00:04:57.800 --> 00:05:02.079 through a mutual friend in Indianapolis. We dated for a 81 00:05:02.079 --> 00:05:04.920 couple of years and then got married in nineteen eighty. 82 00:05:05.720 --> 00:05:07.600 Joan was his baby sister. 83 00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:09.399 And what's his name, Steve? 84 00:05:10.120 --> 00:05:10.480 Steve? 85 00:05:11.399 --> 00:05:14.160 Yes, okay, go ahead, go ahead. 86 00:05:13.959 --> 00:05:18.839 Sorry, okay, yeah, no. I began meeting the family in 87 00:05:18.959 --> 00:05:22.600 nineteen seventy seven, so I've known Joan for several years. 88 00:05:23.040 --> 00:05:26.639 The book is really about her, although I put in 89 00:05:27.040 --> 00:05:30.759 some personal experiences with the family. It's a very unique family. 90 00:05:32.680 --> 00:05:37.279 Both of Joan's parents or Steve's parents, had been part 91 00:05:37.319 --> 00:05:40.079 of the CIA in their early years, so they have 92 00:05:40.160 --> 00:05:44.959 a very interesting background won an intelligence, which was part 93 00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:47.399 of the reason I really started to dig into this 94 00:05:47.519 --> 00:05:50.959 case when the pieces just really didn't add up. They're intelligent, 95 00:05:51.160 --> 00:05:56.120 educated people that make this a much more complex story 96 00:05:56.160 --> 00:06:00.639 than what it really should have been. Joan was the 97 00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:04.560 youngest of three children, and she had worked in New 98 00:06:04.639 --> 00:06:07.560 York City for a number of years before deciding to 99 00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:11.160 go back to school. She went and became part of 100 00:06:11.199 --> 00:06:14.639 the graduate program for the School of Design at Harvard 101 00:06:14.759 --> 00:06:23.120 University in Cambridge, Massachusetts. Very bright, young woman, lovely, just giggled, kind, 102 00:06:23.800 --> 00:06:27.079 would do anything for anyone. She was a wonderful part 103 00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:31.079 of my life, and as I've gone through this case, 104 00:06:31.639 --> 00:06:34.560 she's become even that much more important to me. I 105 00:06:34.600 --> 00:06:37.879 really appreciate and value who she was as a person, 106 00:06:37.920 --> 00:06:42.040 and this is an important case to look at. At 107 00:06:42.040 --> 00:06:45.879 the time that she disappeared, she was in her second 108 00:06:45.959 --> 00:06:50.279 year at Harvard, and she had flown back early from 109 00:06:50.319 --> 00:06:53.920 a Thanksgiving break in Glenridge, New Jersey, which is where 110 00:06:53.959 --> 00:06:57.839 her parents lived, and she went back Saturday night versus Sunday, 111 00:06:58.279 --> 00:07:01.319 which was a little bit unused lawn didn't really make 112 00:07:01.399 --> 00:07:05.439 much sense for quite some time, but she disappeared from 113 00:07:05.439 --> 00:07:09.040 Logan Airport the night she flew back to Boston November 114 00:07:09.040 --> 00:07:12.399 twenty eighth, nineteen eighty one. A lot of people have 115 00:07:12.519 --> 00:07:16.399 the perception that this case was resolved, but it is 116 00:07:16.439 --> 00:07:21.360 an open murder case in Essex County, Massachusetts. It was 117 00:07:21.519 --> 00:07:25.600 at the time, it was highly publicized. This ran in 118 00:07:25.639 --> 00:07:29.000 the media not only in the New England area, but 119 00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:31.680 actually there was some national coverage on it as well. 120 00:07:31.720 --> 00:07:35.680 But this was long before the Internet and cable TV, 121 00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:39.560 so it got a lot of attention for the type 122 00:07:39.560 --> 00:07:42.199 of case that it was, and certainly got more publicity 123 00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:43.120 than most. 124 00:07:44.560 --> 00:07:48.720 Now. Joan was in school, but it was a student 125 00:07:48.759 --> 00:07:51.199 that first notified and formed the family that she had 126 00:07:51.199 --> 00:07:55.160 missed some classes. So tell us about that day in question. 127 00:07:56.279 --> 00:08:00.360 November twenty eighth and tell us what you know if 128 00:08:00.439 --> 00:08:03.439 it seemed unusual to anybody, any conversations with people that 129 00:08:03.519 --> 00:08:06.839 seemed cryptic or pointed to any kind of distress or 130 00:08:06.879 --> 00:08:10.319 anything unusual, tell us about that day and the people 131 00:08:10.399 --> 00:08:14.439 around her, and the entire circumstances of that day itself. 132 00:08:15.160 --> 00:08:19.879 Absolutely no signs of distress whatsoever. The family had gone 133 00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:23.000 to a couple of friends' homes before they took Jones 134 00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:27.040 to Newark Airport that evening, the Whippens and the Joys, 135 00:08:27.079 --> 00:08:29.879 both families that I know, and she would have had 136 00:08:29.920 --> 00:08:34.440 contemporaries there. Friends of hers would have been there. Police 137 00:08:34.480 --> 00:08:39.360 reports indicated that everyone saw Joan as everything being perfectly normal. 138 00:08:39.440 --> 00:08:42.080 She was happy, she was upbeat. Matter of fact, she 139 00:08:42.159 --> 00:08:45.799 was very enthusiastic about a project that she had just 140 00:08:45.960 --> 00:08:49.279 completed before the break and had gotten very high marks on. 141 00:08:50.399 --> 00:08:54.360 No one noticed anything out of the ordinary. Her sister 142 00:08:54.600 --> 00:08:56.559 also lived in the Boston area, so it was a 143 00:08:56.600 --> 00:09:00.559 little confusing why she had gone back early when ordinarily 144 00:09:00.600 --> 00:09:02.759 she would have ridden back with her sister the next 145 00:09:02.879 --> 00:09:06.399 day to the Boston area. The way the story came 146 00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:10.159 out was that she went back early to work on 147 00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:13.120 a project that she was going to present, and that 148 00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:15.639 wasn't the case at all. She had just completed it. 149 00:09:15.759 --> 00:09:18.759 Matter of fact, the year before, she had missed her 150 00:09:18.799 --> 00:09:23.080 Thanksgiving break because the workload was so heavy. So to 151 00:09:23.200 --> 00:09:25.919 me going back through this and trying to piece this 152 00:09:26.039 --> 00:09:29.879 all together, that was a very unusual circumstance for her 153 00:09:29.919 --> 00:09:30.679 to have gone. 154 00:09:30.519 --> 00:09:36.000 Back now that that story, that story was derived or 155 00:09:36.519 --> 00:09:39.519 without any corroborating witnesses, as you say from the father, 156 00:09:40.399 --> 00:09:40.919 isn't that correct? 157 00:09:40.960 --> 00:09:44.120 That's correct, that's correct. He came out and said she'd 158 00:09:44.159 --> 00:09:48.519 gone back early. He indicated that she'd gone back early 159 00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:53.000 to work on a project with classmates, and nothing in 160 00:09:53.159 --> 00:09:56.200 police reports or the files that I've been able to 161 00:09:56.240 --> 00:10:01.000 recover corroborate that whatsoever. No statements from fellows, students, etc. 162 00:10:01.720 --> 00:10:05.240 Most of the students were very confused and concerned, but 163 00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:08.639 didn't notice she was missing until she missed classes on 164 00:10:08.679 --> 00:10:13.919 that following Monday. It wasn't until several years later that 165 00:10:14.600 --> 00:10:18.399 George Webster, her father, indicated that she had made a 166 00:10:18.440 --> 00:10:22.799 call Saturday morning to a classmate to confirm that they 167 00:10:22.840 --> 00:10:26.360 had supplies for a project that didn't match up with 168 00:10:26.440 --> 00:10:29.639 the police reports at all. They had checked the home 169 00:10:29.720 --> 00:10:34.320 phone numbers, but they did not check George Webster's private number. 170 00:10:34.399 --> 00:10:38.159 That number was missing from the police records, and I 171 00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:41.919 suspect that he didn't report it. And no investigator would 172 00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:46.519 know that that number existed unless you know, they wouldn't 173 00:10:46.519 --> 00:10:48.759 know it was missing from police reports, unless they knew 174 00:10:48.759 --> 00:10:52.039 that that number existed. That was a confidential line that 175 00:10:52.080 --> 00:10:55.720 he used. It sat in his office. 176 00:10:55.960 --> 00:10:59.759 Now, when Joan went missing and the news came to 177 00:10:59.799 --> 00:11:03.840 the family and to your husband, Steve, what was his 178 00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:08.039 reaction and what was your reaction was very interesting the 179 00:11:08.200 --> 00:11:09.279 facts that I just tell. 180 00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:13.840 Us, I had a miscarriage the same night that Joan disappeared. 181 00:11:14.440 --> 00:11:17.279 We didn't know it for three days. But at the 182 00:11:17.320 --> 00:11:21.240 time that we got the call from Steve's mother, Eleanor, 183 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:25.080 I was at home, still trying to recover, very weak. 184 00:11:25.159 --> 00:11:29.279 I was hemorrhaging. He got the phone call and came 185 00:11:29.600 --> 00:11:32.000 running into the bathroom where I was at that time, 186 00:11:32.679 --> 00:11:35.639 and actually got very angry with me because I started 187 00:11:35.639 --> 00:11:40.960 to cry. I got very emotional, concerned, scared, very normal 188 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:44.559 reactions in me when you hear someone is missing. And 189 00:11:44.840 --> 00:11:49.240 he got very angry with me, And that is very bothersome, 190 00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:53.159 but they are very stoic. I only saw Steve cry 191 00:11:53.399 --> 00:11:57.000 about the situation one time, only one time. I never 192 00:11:57.080 --> 00:12:00.600 saw any other members of the family cry about Joan 193 00:12:00.679 --> 00:12:04.600 being missing. Steve cried when he was under sedation, having 194 00:12:04.600 --> 00:12:06.799 wisdom to teth pulled about a month and a half later. 195 00:12:09.159 --> 00:12:13.480 What was your reaction to him chastising you for crying. 196 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:16.840 He thought that was inappropriate. Despite you say that the 197 00:12:16.879 --> 00:12:21.159 family conducted himselves very stoically, did you still think there 198 00:12:21.279 --> 00:12:24.080 was something to his reaction or not. 199 00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:27.960 Well, you know, you process things based on what your 200 00:12:27.960 --> 00:12:30.240 experience is. I know that we had just gone through 201 00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:37.960 a miscarriage. Steve was very immature. I didn't react to 202 00:12:38.039 --> 00:12:40.799 it in a hostile way. I tried to be very 203 00:12:40.840 --> 00:12:44.240 sensitive toward him, but considered that, you know, he just 204 00:12:44.440 --> 00:12:47.960 was not capable of handling all the emotions and he 205 00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:51.600 never really did go through a grieving process. The family. 206 00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:54.759 You look at the reactions, and I understood that they 207 00:12:54.759 --> 00:12:58.360 had a background in the CIA. They never broke down 208 00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:02.120 even during private family times, which was very concerning to me. 209 00:13:02.279 --> 00:13:05.480 I spoke to Steve's mother about it going the family 210 00:13:05.519 --> 00:13:10.360 needs to grieve, you need to process. I didn't understand 211 00:13:10.440 --> 00:13:13.480 that that is you know the way that they behaved 212 00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:16.799 on a regular basis. They don't deal with issues, They 213 00:13:17.440 --> 00:13:21.679 block them out, and it is concerning they blocked them 214 00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:27.080 out yet today. 215 00:13:24.720 --> 00:13:29.879 Now, how do police proceed with this disappearance? How do 216 00:13:29.960 --> 00:13:33.240 they proceed with this? Where do they go in terms 217 00:13:33.279 --> 00:13:37.919 of questioning and how do they proceed? Tell us about that. 218 00:13:38.919 --> 00:13:41.879 The case was very sensational. As I said, it was 219 00:13:41.960 --> 00:13:49.639 highly publicized. They settled on an explanation fairly early on. 220 00:13:50.279 --> 00:13:53.320 I did not realize they had come to this determination 221 00:13:53.840 --> 00:13:56.960 as early as they did. But they focused on a 222 00:13:56.960 --> 00:14:00.639 man named Leonard Paradiso, and they focused on him based 223 00:14:00.759 --> 00:14:05.600 on an anonymous call they received in January of nineteen 224 00:14:05.720 --> 00:14:10.000 eighty two, so only a few weeks into jones disappearance. 225 00:14:12.840 --> 00:14:16.519 The story that came out was that they believed that 226 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:20.480 Leonard Parodiso had picked her up at the airport, taken 227 00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:22.879 her to his boat which was down at Peer seven, 228 00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:26.519 and said that he murdered her on his boat and 229 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:31.879 then dumped her in Boston Harbor. For a long time 230 00:14:31.960 --> 00:14:35.720 that was there really was no other explanation so as 231 00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:39.120 not to believe that, But that story didn't come out 232 00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:42.519 until a full year later. That story came out in 233 00:14:42.879 --> 00:14:46.639 January of nineteen eighty three. Digging into the records, I 234 00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:50.200 could see how the process went along for that year 235 00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:55.440 trying to implicate this man for her murder. It really 236 00:14:55.559 --> 00:15:00.679 was an extraordinary explanation, but no one had anything to disputed. 237 00:15:00.639 --> 00:15:04.960 It was coming from the authorities. It was being agreed 238 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:08.200 with by the parents, so no one was going to 239 00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:12.399 dispute it at that time. That story is still being 240 00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:16.879 recycled that she was murdered on Paradiso's boat. The only 241 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:20.080 difference is is the fact that she was found in 242 00:15:20.200 --> 00:15:23.799 nineteen ninety. Her remains were found buried more than thirty 243 00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:27.600 miles from the crime scene. So they kind of reworked 244 00:15:27.639 --> 00:15:30.799 the ending to suggest that Parodiso had removed her from 245 00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:34.759 the boat, her bludgeoned body, taken her to a very 246 00:15:34.799 --> 00:15:40.240 remote area, heavily wooded area, and buried her remains. 247 00:15:40.360 --> 00:15:46.240 Now, who is Leonard Paradiso in terms of his background, 248 00:15:46.399 --> 00:15:49.919 and again, what was the theory that police had that 249 00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:53.039 he came in contact with her at the airport. Give 250 00:15:53.080 --> 00:15:56.440 us more of the supposed background between these two people, 251 00:15:56.480 --> 00:16:00.240 how they came to bump into each other. 252 00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:05.679 Faithfully, Okay, Leonard Parediso was someone who he was a 253 00:16:05.720 --> 00:16:09.279 parole at the time, and he had a record. He 254 00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:12.919 had been a suspect in a nineteen seventy nine murder 255 00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:16.360 a woman named Marie Ayahnuzi. He was not the only 256 00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:19.720 suspect in that case, but he was a suspect because 257 00:16:19.720 --> 00:16:23.480 he had attended the same wedding as this woman, and 258 00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:28.799 he became a logical person to question that case went cold. 259 00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:31.399 The other suspect in that case was a man named 260 00:16:31.480 --> 00:16:34.519 David Doyle, who was the woman's boyfriend and they had 261 00:16:34.519 --> 00:16:39.840 a known abusive relationship. When the anonymous call was placed 262 00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:44.360 in January of nineteen eighty two, a woman implicated Leonard 263 00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:49.039 Parediso for both crimes, both the Ayawsie murder and for 264 00:16:49.159 --> 00:16:54.679 jones disappearance. Her story, which she later testified to in court, 265 00:16:55.639 --> 00:16:59.360 was never corroborated, never verified. It was a ten year 266 00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:05.400 old allegation, and suspiciously, it was very similar to the 267 00:17:05.480 --> 00:17:08.920 story that they were trying to suggest. As far as 268 00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:13.240 what happened to Jong, she claimed that Paradiso had threatened 269 00:17:13.240 --> 00:17:15.079 to dump her in the ocean where no one would 270 00:17:15.079 --> 00:17:17.720 ever find her, and of course that's what the police 271 00:17:18.279 --> 00:17:22.240 were promoting. As far as what they suggested happened to Joan, 272 00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:25.799 that she was dumped in the ocean and was not 273 00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:28.839 going to be found, And it was very convenient because 274 00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:31.839 nobody had surfaced. No one had any idea what had 275 00:17:31.839 --> 00:17:32.519 happened to Joan. 276 00:17:36.039 --> 00:17:42.240 And the motive, sorry, his motive, suppose supposed motive for all. 277 00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:46.599 Of this, though his motive would have simply been a 278 00:17:46.680 --> 00:17:51.839 random act. They claimed he was driving a Gypsy cab 279 00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:56.359 in at the airport, although there is no evidence to 280 00:17:56.400 --> 00:18:00.440 support that whatsoever. He was a parole, he could not 281 00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:04.799 get a hack license, and there are no witnesses that 282 00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:07.640 testified to the fact that he drove a cab at 283 00:18:07.640 --> 00:18:11.519 any time. Ever. It just was. It was a story 284 00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:15.519 that basically was compounded every step of the way, trying 285 00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:19.079 to fit this crime to this man, basically trying to 286 00:18:19.160 --> 00:18:23.480 prove that he murdered Joan Webster. Nothing supports it. 287 00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:31.319 Now, who is this, sorry, go ahead, Sorr. Who is 288 00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:36.039 Robert Bond? And you talked about an anonymous informant, But 289 00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:39.240 Robert Bond is a criminal informant. So tell us about 290 00:18:39.319 --> 00:18:41.960 Robert Bond and what he had to say. If I'm 291 00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:43.279 not jumping ahead. 292 00:18:43.599 --> 00:18:47.880 Okay, Robert Bond is the person that stepped into the picture. 293 00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:53.000 In January of nineteen eighty three, he was convicted murderer 294 00:18:53.559 --> 00:18:57.680 and he was in the Charles Street jail, not far 295 00:18:58.279 --> 00:19:01.440 from Leonard parodies of self. They were a few cells apart. 296 00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:05.599 He is the man who the police went to and 297 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:09.359 worked on a story and a statement claiming that Leonard 298 00:19:09.440 --> 00:19:13.559 Parodiso confessed to him that he had murdered Joan on 299 00:19:13.640 --> 00:19:19.680 his boat and dumped her in Boston. Harper Robert Bond 300 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:25.599 had absolutely no credibility whatsoever, but his statement was sealed, 301 00:19:26.279 --> 00:19:30.200 and when he came forward and testified in the Ayan 302 00:19:30.279 --> 00:19:34.319 Easy case and also in a pre trial hearing, he 303 00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:38.519 was implicating Parodis, so for Joan Webster as well. So 304 00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:44.200 conveniently the police had an informant who could give them 305 00:19:44.200 --> 00:19:48.039 a story that tied both of these cases together, and 306 00:19:48.160 --> 00:19:52.240 all through the media, all through the press, these two 307 00:19:52.279 --> 00:19:56.160 cases were tied together, even though there were no similarities whatsoever. 308 00:19:56.720 --> 00:20:01.960 Marie Ayaneuzi was found strangled. 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There were signs that there 338 00:21:22.119 --> 00:21:25.640 was a foul play. Her purse had been found, and 339 00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:29.599 by January of nineteen eighty two her suitcase had been found. 340 00:21:30.519 --> 00:21:33.960 She did also carry a tote bag that was never recovered. 341 00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:41.279 So Robert Bond was a snitch that came forward, worked 342 00:21:41.279 --> 00:21:45.240 with the police. They came up with a statement. At 343 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:48.039 the time, I had no idea what the statement said. 344 00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:50.839 Those are part of the recovered documents now and the 345 00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:52.319 statement that he gave was false. 346 00:21:55.400 --> 00:22:00.880 Now, were there some assurances, promises, something to benefit from 347 00:22:01.119 --> 00:22:04.119 Robert Bond's testimony favorable for the prosecution. 348 00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:10.720 Absolutely. He was promised that they would reduce his charges 349 00:22:10.759 --> 00:22:14.440 to manslaughter for the second murder that he had just 350 00:22:14.519 --> 00:22:18.599 been convicted of. His case did get retried, he did 351 00:22:18.640 --> 00:22:22.240 get found, he was convicted a second time. He did 352 00:22:22.319 --> 00:22:25.640 not get manslaughter, even though he had been promised manslaughter. 353 00:22:26.039 --> 00:22:29.240 He had also been promised and enticed with the Webster 354 00:22:29.400 --> 00:22:35.720 family reward. So he had been certainly seduced to go 355 00:22:35.799 --> 00:22:37.640 along and give the state what they wanted. 356 00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:43.839 Now, what's your theory in this? That why police and 357 00:22:43.880 --> 00:22:51.480 prosecutors were so adamant in railroading parodise. So why were 358 00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:55.559 they so evident? Why were they put evidence aside just 359 00:22:55.599 --> 00:22:58.279 to be able to make this case work? What is 360 00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:00.359 your theory reasoning why they did that? 361 00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:06.279 Leonard Parodissa was a convenience scapegoat for them. And what 362 00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:09.480 I did not understand. I understood at the time that 363 00:23:09.559 --> 00:23:13.920 they found Joan's remains in nineteen ninety that this theory 364 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:17.359 that they had promoted, this boat theory, was probably not 365 00:23:17.480 --> 00:23:20.759 the correct theory. They had the wrong guy. And I 366 00:23:20.839 --> 00:23:23.240 know that for certain things that I knew as a 367 00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:27.039 part of the immediate family. In nineteen eighty three, a 368 00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:31.440 grand jury had rejected the boat theory. So there was 369 00:23:31.720 --> 00:23:34.359 never a true bill handed down. No one was ever 370 00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:40.160 charged or tried for this crime. Joan had been found 371 00:23:40.200 --> 00:23:43.160 thirty miles from the alleged crime scene, and she had 372 00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:46.880 also not been dumped in Boston Harbor, So I knew 373 00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:50.759 that this indeed was not the correct answer for what 374 00:23:50.839 --> 00:23:53.279 had happened to Joan. But there was a great deal 375 00:23:53.319 --> 00:23:59.720 that I did not know. I could speculate about the 376 00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:03.480 time in Boston when things went on there. This was 377 00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:07.279 a very corrupt period in Boston's history. There was a 378 00:24:07.279 --> 00:24:12.839 lot of corruption. The FBI protected criminal informants. I had 379 00:24:12.880 --> 00:24:17.039 no idea the circumstances surrounding the Ayanuzi case or the 380 00:24:17.119 --> 00:24:21.119 exculpatory evidence that was available in that case but hidden 381 00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:25.000 in other case files. Basically, you've got a case here 382 00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:31.440 of public corruption. The authorities manufactured an explanation for Jones loss. 383 00:24:32.119 --> 00:24:35.039 Why would they do that, Well, you either have to 384 00:24:35.079 --> 00:24:42.599 look at them wanting to boost themselves as heroes finding 385 00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:47.680 the answers. But the Websters were extremely involved in this case. 386 00:24:48.119 --> 00:24:51.039 They were meeting with the FBI, they were corresponding with 387 00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:55.200 the FBI. I know personally that they were in Boston 388 00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:58.680 all the time. They had a heavy hand in the 389 00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:01.720 direction that this case took, and they also were the 390 00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:05.200 ones that were extremely influential for people to believe this. 391 00:25:06.519 --> 00:25:10.119 People sympathized with them. Here these parents have lost their daughter. 392 00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:14.720 If the Websters say they believe this, then people went 393 00:25:14.759 --> 00:25:16.960 along with it, and the authorities were going along with 394 00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:20.359 it as well. The authorities did one of two things. 395 00:25:20.519 --> 00:25:23.920 They either lied to the Websters or they lied for them. 396 00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:29.000 And going through and recovering the documents that I have, 397 00:25:29.599 --> 00:25:33.519 seeing the evidence that I have in my personal experiences 398 00:25:33.559 --> 00:25:36.480 with the Websters, I'm very concerned that it's the latter, 399 00:25:37.720 --> 00:25:41.240 because they are completely ignoring evidence that has come to 400 00:25:41.319 --> 00:25:44.519 light now and part of that evidence. 401 00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:49.680