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<v Speaker 1>Imagine your life, moment by moment, becoming this stream of data. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>not just you know, your online clicks, but every physical

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<v Speaker 1>thing you touch, every step you take in a shop, even.

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<v Speaker 2>What's in your medicine cabinet.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, all quietly broadcasting information about you too. Well, who

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<v Speaker 1>knows who these invisible listeners think about walking into a

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<v Speaker 1>store and the price of I don't know, peanut butter

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<v Speaker 1>just shifts just.

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<v Speaker 2>For you based on some hidden profile of your shopping habits.

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<v Speaker 1>Its exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>It sounds like something out of a Dyscopian movie, really

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<v Speaker 2>it does.

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<v Speaker 1>But our deep dive today is looking at a technology

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<v Speaker 1>that well, according to the authors, we're focusing on holds

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<v Speaker 1>exactly that kind of potential, and.

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<v Speaker 2>That's radio frequency identification or our FID.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the one our guide for This is a really

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<v Speaker 1>powerful book. Actually, it's called Spy Chips, How major corporations

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<v Speaker 1>and government plan to track your every move with r FID.

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<v Speaker 2>Written by Catherine Elbricht and Liz McIntyre, published back in

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<v Speaker 2>two thousand and five.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, quite a while ago now, but still incredibly relevant.

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<v Speaker 2>And this isn't some dry technical overview. The authors really

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<v Speaker 2>position it as a critical expose.

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<v Speaker 1>They call it a masterpiece of technocriticism.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they argue it unveils what they see as a

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<v Speaker 2>hidden sort of scheme, a plan to infest the entire

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<v Speaker 2>physical infrastructure of the planet.

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<v Speaker 1>With tracking capabilities. That's the core argument.

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<v Speaker 2>They even make this really provocative comparison to Rachel Carson's

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<v Speaker 2>Silent Spring.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a big claim. And what makes their arguments feel

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<v Speaker 1>so grounded is that they weren't just like speculating wildly.

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<v Speaker 2>No, Albritton McIntyre did some serious digging. They went through articles,

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<v Speaker 2>research papers, apparently, got insider tips.

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<v Speaker 1>And thousands of public patent documents. That's key. They use

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<v Speaker 1>those patents to piece together this frankly pretty unsettling vision

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<v Speaker 1>of our future.

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<v Speaker 2>So our mission today really is to unpack the concerns

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<v Speaker 2>these authors raised, to try and demystify the RFID technology.

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<v Speaker 1>Itself and explore the really far reaching implications warned about

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<v Speaker 1>everything from consumer tracking to government surveillance.

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<v Speaker 2>Will lay out their arguments, look at the specific examples

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<v Speaker 2>they found, and explore those patented plans, plans that even

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<v Speaker 2>now nearly two decades later, feel remarkably well unsettling.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so let's kick things off with the basics for

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<v Speaker 1>anyone who maybe needs a quick refresher. Yeah, what is

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<v Speaker 1>RFID essentially, and why is it so different from say,

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<v Speaker 1>uh standard barcode?

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<v Speaker 2>Right? Well, at its simplest, RFID is basically a tiny

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<v Speaker 2>computer chip attached to an antenna, okay, and that combination

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<v Speaker 2>lets you identify and track almost any physical object. And

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<v Speaker 2>when we say tiny, some of these silicon chips are

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<v Speaker 2>like zero point two five millimeters.

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<v Speaker 1>Square, smaller than a period.

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<v Speaker 2>Smaller than the period at the end of a sentence. Yeah, microscopic.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow. And these tags, these spike chips, as the authors

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<v Speaker 1>call them, they're not all the same, are they not

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<v Speaker 1>at all?

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<v Speaker 2>You've got two main types. Passive tags are the most

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<v Speaker 2>common for this kind of tracking concern. They have no battery,

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<v Speaker 2>no internal power.

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<v Speaker 1>Do they work.

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<v Speaker 2>They get activated by the energy from an RFID reader

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<v Speaker 2>when it comes close enough. That energy powers the chip

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<v Speaker 2>just long enough for it to send back its ID number.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay. So they're cheap, small.

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<v Speaker 2>Incredibly chip very small, and they last basically forever. They

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<v Speaker 2>can even be woven right into fabric invisible. Yeah, pretty much.

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<v Speaker 2>Then you have active tags.

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<v Speaker 1>These do have a battery, right like my highway toll

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<v Speaker 1>pass exactly like that.

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<v Speaker 2>They can transmit further, hold more data, but they're bigger,

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<v Speaker 2>more expensive, use more for tracking, say, shipping containers or

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<v Speaker 2>those toll transponders.

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<v Speaker 1>And the way they can be made, it almost sounds

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<v Speaker 1>like they're designed for stealth.

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<v Speaker 2>You could certainly argue that these tags can be made

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<v Speaker 2>virtually invisible, printed with conductive inc maybe, or even designed

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<v Speaker 2>as chipless systems. Shipless, yeah, using the material properties of

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<v Speaker 2>the packaging itself to reflect radio waves in a unique pattern,

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<v Speaker 2>basically embedded right into the box or the fabric, very

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<v Speaker 2>hard to spot without special beer.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, this is where the history goes. It's really interesting

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<v Speaker 1>the book connects this modern tech to something much older,

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<v Speaker 1>much more covert. Right Leon thereman, the guy with the

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<v Speaker 1>musical instrument, the eerie space music.

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<v Speaker 2>That's one most people know, But the authors they reveal

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<v Speaker 2>this whole other side. Damn his life as a Soviet spy,

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<v Speaker 2>a spy and a pioneer in radio wave surveillance. They

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<v Speaker 2>actually call him the father of spy chips.

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<v Speaker 1>Why what'd she do?

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<v Speaker 2>Because of his most well notorious invention, something called the Thing.

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<v Speaker 1>The thing sounds like something from a Cold War spy movie.

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<v Speaker 2>It absolutely was. Back in nineteen forty five, some Russian

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<v Speaker 2>school children gave this gift to the US ambassador in Moscow,

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<v Speaker 2>a big carved wooden replica of the Great Seal of

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<v Speaker 2>the United States.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, a nice gesture or maybe not.

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<v Speaker 2>Definitely not hidden inside was this incredibly clever listening device.

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<v Speaker 2>It had no power source.

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<v Speaker 1>Of its own, like a passive RFID tag.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly the principle. It was activated by radio waves being

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<v Speaker 2>at it from outside and used that energy to transmit

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<v Speaker 2>conversations from the ambassador's office back to the Soviets.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, how long did that go on?

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<v Speaker 2>For six years they couldn't figure out how it worked.

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<v Speaker 2>American intelligence nicknamed it the Thing. Its discovery apparently kicked

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<v Speaker 2>off this huge, top secret CIA project just to understand it.

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<v Speaker 1>So the authors are drawing a direct line from this

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<v Speaker 1>Cold War bugging device to modern RFID.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, that's their chilling point. It's not just some quirky

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<v Speaker 2>historical fact. They see it as the conceptual blueprint.

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<v Speaker 1>The idea of hidden remotely activated.

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<v Speaker 2>Tracking exactly that invisibility, the remote readability. They argue, it's

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<v Speaker 2>baked into the DNA of the technology. It suggests that

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<v Speaker 2>the privacy risks weren't just some accidental side.

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<v Speaker 1>Effect, but maybe potentially part of the original appeal rooted

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<v Speaker 1>in surveillance.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the unsettling question they raise. Did that original intent

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<v Speaker 2>of hidden surveillance sort of subtly guide how it's being

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<v Speaker 2>used today?

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<v Speaker 1>That really makes you think, Okay, So, how did this tech,

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<v Speaker 1>with the let's say interesting origins, transition from spy stuff

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<v Speaker 1>to this grand plan for tracking every single object on

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<v Speaker 1>the planet.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, the authors trace the start of that huge vision

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<v Speaker 2>back to a surprisingly mundane problem. Oh yeah, nineteen ninety seven,

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<v Speaker 2>a guy named Kevin Ashton, a brand manager at Procter

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<v Speaker 2>and Gamble. He couldn't keep a popular shade of oil

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<v Speaker 2>of ola lipstick and stock on the shelves, even.

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<v Speaker 1>Though there's plenty in the warehouse right.

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<v Speaker 2>Standard supply chain issue. But his frustration sparked this well

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<v Speaker 2>radical idea, what if we could track every single item individually,

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<v Speaker 2>not just the box, but each lipstick.

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<v Speaker 1>And that little problem became the seed for something massive.

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<v Speaker 2>It really did. Ashton got backing from some huge players,

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<v Speaker 2>P and G let, the Uniform Code Council.

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<v Speaker 1>The Barcode people, the barcode people.

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<v Speaker 2>And in nineteen ninety nine, they founded the MIT auto.

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<v Speaker 1>itIt Center, Okay, and their goal.

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<v Speaker 2>It was incredibly ambitious. Put low cost RFID tags on

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<v Speaker 2>every single manufactured item globally to achieve what they call

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<v Speaker 2>near perfect supply chain visibility, eliminate stockouts, reduced theft, to

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<v Speaker 2>remove human error, basically know where everything is all the time.

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<v Speaker 1>This sounds like the early blueprint for what we now

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<v Speaker 1>call the Internet of Things.

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<v Speaker 2>Right absolutely, but the authors suggest it was perhaps a

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<v Speaker 2>bit more focused than just smart fridges talking to smart speakers.

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<v Speaker 2>How So, the autoid Center's vision was that these inanimate objects,

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<v Speaker 2>the lipstick, the can of soup, whatever, wouldn't just be connected.

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<v Speaker 2>They would actively talk talk to to manufacturers, to retailers,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe even to each other, all built on the existing

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<v Speaker 2>Internet infrastructure. The really big shift, the authors argue, is

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<v Speaker 2>giving a unique identity and a voice not just to

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<v Speaker 2>your fancy gadgets, but to the most ordinary physical stuff in.

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<v Speaker 1>Your life, letting them report on themselves, their location, their history.

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<v Speaker 2>And ultimately their interaction with you.

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<v Speaker 1>And the key to that communication is something called the

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<v Speaker 1>electronic product code the EPC. How's that different from the

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<v Speaker 1>barcode we see everywhere that's.

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<v Speaker 2>A really crucial distinction. The author's emphasis. A barcode the

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<v Speaker 2>UPC identifies a type of product. All twelve ounce cans

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<v Speaker 2>of brand xcorn have the same barcode. The EPC, however,

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<v Speaker 2>is a unique serial number for each individual item. Think

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<v Speaker 2>of it like a social Security number, but for objects.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the analogy the authors use.

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<v Speaker 1>So my specific can of corn could have its own

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<v Speaker 1>unique digital ID, its own history.

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<v Speaker 2>That's exactly the vision with EPCs. Businesses could create a

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<v Speaker 2>unique data file like a web page, for every single item,

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<v Speaker 2>when it was made, where it traveled, maybe who bought it.

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<v Speaker 2>The amount of data atronomical. The authors point out that

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<v Speaker 2>back in two thousand and four, Walmart's database was already

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<v Speaker 2>twice the size of the entire Internet at the time.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, this wasn't just about managing inventory better. It

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<v Speaker 2>was about creating this unprecedented layer of surveillance over physical.

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<v Speaker 1>Goods and, by extension, the people using them. Right, And

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<v Speaker 1>the authors highlight other key differences beyond just the unique ID. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>what makes RFID so much more potent, let's say, than barcodes.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, the unique idea is huge because it allows

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<v Speaker 2>linking that specific item to you or your purchase history.

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<v Speaker 2>But then there's the remote readability, meaning you don't need

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<v Speaker 2>line of sight. RFID tags can be scanned right through

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<v Speaker 2>your clothes, your wallet, your backpack without you knowing, without

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<v Speaker 2>your consent.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the X ray vision they talk about exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>It completely changes the game compared to needing to scan

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<v Speaker 2>a visible barcode at a checkout.

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<v Speaker 1>And they also brought up potential health concerns they did.

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<v Speaker 2>They raise questions about the long term effects of chronic

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<v Speaker 2>exposure to low levels of electromagnetic radiation, especially if RFID

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<v Speaker 2>readers become ubiquitous everywhere.

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<v Speaker 1>In stores, homes, workplaces, a.

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<v Speaker 2>Constant, low level bath of radio waves. The concern isn't

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<v Speaker 2>just about one device, but the cumulative effect of this

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<v Speaker 2>invisible tracking infrastructure.

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<v Speaker 1>So with all this data being generated, who stands to

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<v Speaker 1>gain the most? Who wants this information?

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<v Speaker 2>According to the authors, there are three main groups really

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<v Speaker 2>interested in secretly getting their hands on this spy ChiPT

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<v Speaker 2>beta okay, who marketers, governments, and.

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<v Speaker 1>Criminals makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Marketers want incredibly detailed profiles of what you own, what

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<v Speaker 2>you buy, where you go for hyper targeted ads, personalized pricing,

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<v Speaker 2>all that stuff. Government they might want hidden scanners for

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<v Speaker 2>mass surveillance, tracking movements, identifying people, control easy pickings, potentially

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<v Speaker 2>scanning bags to see if you've bought expensive items, Scanning

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<v Speaker 2>homes in the street to see what's inside, identifying targets.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's sobering. And the industry promoting RFID, they must

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<v Speaker 1>have known this would worry people.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Oh, absolutely, the author's uncovered evidence of a pretty

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<v Speaker 2>sophisticated PR strategy Like what they found documents from PR

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<v Speaker 2>firms like Fleischmann Hillard advising the RFID industry on how

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<v Speaker 2>to and this is a direct quote, pacify consumers.

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<v Speaker 1>Pacify, not inform, but pacify exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>They suggested rebranding RFID tags with softer names like green

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<v Speaker 2>tags or radio barcodes. They could sound less threatening, less intrusive.

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<v Speaker 1>And just educate people.

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<v Speaker 2>That was the line push the idea that education would

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<v Speaker 2>overcome public fears. But the authors argue this was essentially

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<v Speaker 2>propaganda designed to downplay the risks and push the technology

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<v Speaker 2>forward without full transparency.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's make this more concrete. The book talks about

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<v Speaker 1>RFID turning up in all sorts of everyday things, from

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<v Speaker 1>clothes to well medicine, cabinets. What are some of the

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<v Speaker 1>standout examples.

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<v Speaker 2>One of the most famous early blow ups they cover

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<v Speaker 2>was Benetton back in two thousand and three.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, I remember something about that underwear exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>They planned to embed RFID chips in women's underwear. It's

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<v Speaker 2>caused a massive international backlash.

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<v Speaker 1>People were not happy, not at all.

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<v Speaker 2>There was this whole I'd rather go naked than wear

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<v Speaker 2>a spy chip campaign. Benetton eventually had to scrap the

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<v Speaker 2>plan completely.

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<v Speaker 1>But that didn't stop it elsewhere.

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<v Speaker 2>No shipped work uniforms, for instance, from companies like a Mayor,

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<v Speaker 2>Pride or synilyssas they're pretty common now, and they.

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<v Speaker 1>Could potentially track what where employees go.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, potentially track movements around a facility, how long someone

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<v Speaker 2>spends in the restroom, chats by the water cooler. The

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<v Speaker 2>authors argue it's less about productivity and more about quantifying

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<v Speaker 2>and controlling every second of an employee's.

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<v Speaker 1>Day, taking workplace surveillance to a completely new level. And

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<v Speaker 1>in stores it gets even more specific, right down to

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<v Speaker 1>changing prices for individuals.

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<v Speaker 2>That's one of the really unsettling scenarios. They describe this

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<v Speaker 2>idea of personalized pricing.

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<v Speaker 1>So based on my shopping history tracked via RFID.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, the system identifies you, maybe pegs you as a

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<v Speaker 2>prime customer who doesn't worry much about price, or a

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<v Speaker 2>bargain chopper. And then and then the price for that

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<v Speaker 2>same jar of peanut butter could literally change on electronic

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<v Speaker 2>shelf label just for you. I mean, double the price

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<v Speaker 2>for the bargain hunter compared to the prime customer.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow, that's not just a sale, that's dynamic pricing based

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<v Speaker 1>on perceived wealth exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>The book also mentions things like bank employees potentially seeing

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<v Speaker 2>your account balance on a screen as soon as you.

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<v Speaker 1>Walk in or in checkpoints. Electronic frisking.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, scanners in doorways or walkways in stores or public spaces,

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<v Speaker 2>just silently scanning everything you're carrying without you even knowing.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's get into some specific corporate examples. The authors found

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<v Speaker 1>patents incidents. IBM had a vision that sounded pretty creepy,

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<v Speaker 1>like something out of Minority Report.

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<v Speaker 2>It really does have that vibe. IBM patented a system

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<v Speaker 2>called Identify and Track Persons using RFID casch items.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>The idea was to scan people as they enter a store,

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<v Speaker 2>not just to see what they carry, but to infer

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<v Speaker 2>things about them, right, Like, if this system detects an

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<v Speaker 2>expensive watch, say a Rolex, it might categorize you into

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<v Speaker 2>a higher income bracket. And the point of that to

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<v Speaker 2>monitor your movements through the store and hit you with

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<v Speaker 2>highly targeted advertising in real time, just like in the movie.

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<v Speaker 2>The author's insight here is it's not just tracking what

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<v Speaker 2>you buy, but who you are and how you move.

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<v Speaker 2>That becomes the valuable commodity.

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<v Speaker 1>And NCR, the cash register Company, if they had a

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<v Speaker 1>patent the called cornography. What was that about?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that name highlights how detailed and frankly kind of

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<v Speaker 2>demeaning it was. This patent described tracking shoppers micro interactions

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<v Speaker 2>with products, like picking something up exactly like you pick

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<v Speaker 2>up a can of brandex corn, you read the label,

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<v Speaker 2>you put it back down, and then you grab the

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<v Speaker 2>can of brand Y corn instead.

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<v Speaker 1>The system logs all that.

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<v Speaker 2>It logs all of it. And NCR apparently used terms

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<v Speaker 2>like bottom feeder in their documents to describe shoppers who

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<v Speaker 2>compared prices like that. Seriously, that's what the authors report,

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<v Speaker 2>and the goal wasn't just understand you, it was to

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<v Speaker 2>use that real time data to push other, maybe higher

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<v Speaker 2>margin items at you leverage your own behavior against you

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<v Speaker 2>in visibly, so at.

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<v Speaker 1>Least could all be happening using existing infrastructure like those

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<v Speaker 1>anti theft gates at store entrances.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a major warning in the book. Those familiar security

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<v Speaker 2>portals from companies like Sensormatic or checkpoint systems, they could

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<v Speaker 2>potentially be converted almost overnight into RFID readers.

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<v Speaker 1>So they wouldn't just beep if you stole something.

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<v Speaker 2>They could be silently logging every tagged item you carry

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<v Speaker 2>in and out of the store. And if you combine

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<v Speaker 2>that with source tagging, where the RFID tags are hidden

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<v Speaker 2>inside the product or packaging during manufacturing.

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<v Speaker 1>Then the whole system becomes invisible.

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<v Speaker 2>Completely invisible, and potentially on to present. Every doorway becomes

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<v Speaker 2>a potential data collection point.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so it's not just public spaces. The book really

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<v Speaker 1>emphasizes the potential for RFID to invade our homes, our

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<v Speaker 1>private spaces. Tell us about those smart home scenarios.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they looked at prototype homes of the future that

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<v Speaker 2>were just packed with RFID enabled gadgets.

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<v Speaker 1>Any specific examples that stood out.

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<v Speaker 2>One that was particularly chilling was from Accenture. They called

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<v Speaker 2>it the Caring Plant.

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<v Speaker 1>Sounds nice.

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<v Speaker 2>The concept was a system to monitor the daily habits

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<v Speaker 2>of elderly people living alone. But the goal wasn't just monitoring,

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<v Speaker 2>It was subtly nudging them towards good behavior through this continuous,

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<v Speaker 2>unseen surveillance and.

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<v Speaker 1>Feedback loop, moving beyond convenience into behavioral control.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the fear, and.

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<v Speaker 1>It gets even more personal. Medicine cabinets fridges absolutely.

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<v Speaker 2>The authors describe how these appliances could track your pill consumption.

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<v Speaker 2>They call it prescription compliance.

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<v Speaker 1>Making sure you take every pill refill on time.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly your medicine cabinet knows, and maybe reports back to

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<v Speaker 2>your doctor or pharmacy if you miss a dose. Fridges

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<v Speaker 2>could track everything you eat, generate shopping lists automatically, and.

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<v Speaker 1>Trigger personalized ads on your TV based on what's running.

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<v Speaker 2>Low or based on what you should be eating according

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<v Speaker 2>to some profile. They even found patents for home inventory

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<v Speaker 2>sniffers RFID readers built into doorways, floors, closets, even your car,

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<v Speaker 2>constantly taking inventory of everything you own that has an

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<v Speaker 2>rfidtach and reporting that awhere. The patent language said something

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<v Speaker 2>like periodically report the inventory automatically to the retailer via

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<v Speaker 2>a modem.

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<v Speaker 1>So your closet tells the store what clothes you have.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the idea. The insight is the transformation of your

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<v Speaker 2>private home from a sanctuary into an active data collection

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<v Speaker 2>point for outside companies.

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<v Speaker 1>It seems nothing is sacred. The book even says your

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<v Speaker 1>crash isn't safe.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a surprisingly powerful point they make. Think about all

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<v Speaker 2>the packaging you throw away. If it has an RFID.

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<v Speaker 1>Tag, it's still active.

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<v Speaker 2>It's still active. And the authors warned that snoops and

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<v Speaker 2>criminals could potentially drive down the street with a reader

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<v Speaker 2>and scan the contents of your garbage bins just to.

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<v Speaker 1>See what you've bought or thrown away.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and it gets worse. They found a Bell salv

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<v Speaker 2>patent application the phone company at the time. Yeah, their

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<v Speaker 2>patent was for a system to collect, sort, process, and

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<v Speaker 2>sell data gathered from RFID tags found on discarded items.

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<v Speaker 1>Selling your trash data.

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<v Speaker 2>Seriously, that was the plan outlined in the patent. So

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<v Speaker 2>not only is your trash talking, someone could be profiting

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<v Speaker 2>directly from listening.

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<v Speaker 1>To it and even reading habits newspapers magazines.

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<v Speaker 2>According to their research, Yes, plans were apparently discussed for

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<v Speaker 2>putting RFID tags in newspapers and magazines. Why potentially to

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<v Speaker 2>track not just if you read it, but where in

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<v Speaker 2>the house you read it. They even mentioned the example

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<v Speaker 2>of tracking if it was read in the bathroom.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, that's crossing a line.

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<v Speaker 2>The implication is that truly, no aspect of your physical life,

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<v Speaker 2>no matter how private or mundane, remains outside the potential

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<v Speaker 2>reach of this surveillance.

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<v Speaker 1>So we've covered tracking things clothes, food, trash. What about

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<v Speaker 1>tracking people directly? The book gets into some really concerning applications,

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<v Speaker 1>particularly in healthcare.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, healthcare is a big focus. The authors describe hospitals

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<v Speaker 2>considering using RFID tags directly on patients like ristbands. Like wristbands, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>but also potentially on things like bedpans to monitor bodily

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00:18:42.680 --> 00:18:45.839
<v Speaker 2>outputs automatically serious. That's what they report, and they challenge

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<v Speaker 2>the industry claims, like from Precision Dynamics Score, that patient

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<v Speaker 2>misidentification is this huge problem justifying RFID tagging. The authors

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<v Speaker 2>argue it's actually a relatively minor issue. So the implication

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<v Speaker 2>is the implication is that it's less about patient safety

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<v Speaker 2>and more about treating patients like inventory, subjecting them to

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<v Speaker 2>constant granular monitoring, possibly driven more by efficiency targets or

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<v Speaker 2>commercial interests.

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<v Speaker 1>And Big Pharma is interested too. For prescriptions.

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<v Speaker 2>Definitely plans for putting RFID on individual pills or pill bottles,

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00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:22.200
<v Speaker 2>things like oxyconton viagra.

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00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:23.640
<v Speaker 1>To monitor prescription compliance.

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00:19:23.880 --> 00:19:24.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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00:19:24.319 --> 00:19:25.279
<v Speaker 1>No, if you took your.

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00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:28.799
<v Speaker 2>Mets exactly, did you take every pill? Did you refill

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00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:33.319
<v Speaker 2>on time? Accenture even floated an online medicine cabinet idea

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00:19:33.519 --> 00:19:36.400
<v Speaker 2>that would talk directly to your doctor and pharmacy.

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00:19:35.960 --> 00:19:38.960
<v Speaker 1>Taking away your control over your own medication management.

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<v Speaker 2>Essentially, Yeah, removing that autonomy.

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00:19:40.920 --> 00:19:44.519
<v Speaker 1>They even mention things you ingest chips you swallow, uh huh.

397
00:19:44.599 --> 00:19:48.160
<v Speaker 2>They talk about devices like the Jonah apparently ingestible to

398
00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:50.960
<v Speaker 2>measure internal body temperature, and even, believe it or not,

399
00:19:51.319 --> 00:19:54.319
<v Speaker 2>an RFID enabled tampon detection system.

400
00:19:54.440 --> 00:19:58.640
<v Speaker 1>Wow, Okay. That raises some pretty fundamental questions about bodily autonomy,

401
00:19:58.640 --> 00:19:59.359
<v Speaker 1>doesn't it It?

402
00:19:59.480 --> 00:20:01.759
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely he does. How much are we willing to allow

403
00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:06.480
<v Speaker 2>our internal bodily functions to be monitored externally? It's a

404
00:20:06.519 --> 00:20:09.119
<v Speaker 2>disturbing step towards internal surveillance.

405
00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:14.039
<v Speaker 1>Moving from ingustible to under the skin subcutaneous implants. The

406
00:20:14.119 --> 00:20:15.039
<v Speaker 1>very chip comes up a.

407
00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:17.079
<v Speaker 2>Lot, right, The very chip. The authors make a point

408
00:20:17.079 --> 00:20:19.440
<v Speaker 2>of clarifying it's about the size of a dime, not

409
00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:21.599
<v Speaker 2>a tiny grain of rice like sometimes claimed.

410
00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:24.160
<v Speaker 1>And it's implanted where how is it used?

411
00:20:24.279 --> 00:20:27.559
<v Speaker 2>Usually implanted in the arm. It gained some notoriety being

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00:20:27.640 --> 00:20:30.160
<v Speaker 2>used in places like nightclubs or bars for customers to

413
00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:33.599
<v Speaker 2>pay for drinks with a wave of their army. Maybe perhaps,

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00:20:34.119 --> 00:20:36.480
<v Speaker 2>But the FDA also approved it as a medical device.

415
00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:39.279
<v Speaker 2>The idea was to link the chip's ID number to

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00:20:39.319 --> 00:20:41.680
<v Speaker 2>a patient's online medical records.

417
00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:43.440
<v Speaker 1>But the authors raise safety.

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00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:47.319
<v Speaker 2>Concern significant ones, potential tissue reactions around the implant, the

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00:20:47.400 --> 00:20:50.680
<v Speaker 2>chip migrating within the body over time, security flaws making

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00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:54.359
<v Speaker 2>it hackable, and MRI incompatibility. What happens in an MRI

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00:20:54.839 --> 00:20:57.559
<v Speaker 2>The metal in the chip could heat up dangerously or

422
00:20:57.599 --> 00:20:59.960
<v Speaker 2>the magnetic fields could physically move the implant.

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00:21:00.759 --> 00:21:04.279
<v Speaker 1>Not good, No, and apparently the implant ideas get even

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00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:06.279
<v Speaker 1>more invasive unfortunately.

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00:21:06.359 --> 00:21:10.759
<v Speaker 2>Yes. The book details patents from companies like Persephone, Inc.

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00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:13.799
<v Speaker 2>These weren't just under the skin. They were for deep

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00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:14.720
<v Speaker 2>organ implants.

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00:21:14.759 --> 00:21:17.519
<v Speaker 1>Deep organ like where head.

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00:21:17.559 --> 00:21:20.240
<v Speaker 2>Torso, gastri intestinal tract, even the uterus.

430
00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:21.839
<v Speaker 1>And what would these implants do?

431
00:21:22.279 --> 00:21:27.160
<v Speaker 2>The patents describe capabilities like vibrating, delivering electric shocks, broadcasting

432
00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:31.119
<v Speaker 2>audible messages inside the body, or even acting as microphones.

433
00:21:31.240 --> 00:21:33.680
<v Speaker 1>That's terrifying, complete loss of physical.

434
00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:36.960
<v Speaker 2>Control, that's the implication. And then there was George Vawsen's

435
00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:41.440
<v Speaker 2>patent for kevlar armbands, armbands with a remote controlled injection

436
00:21:41.559 --> 00:21:46.200
<v Speaker 2>module designed to deliver knockout anesthetics on command, proposed for

437
00:21:46.279 --> 00:21:49.720
<v Speaker 2>crowd control or you know, restricting someone's movement remotely.

438
00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:52.599
<v Speaker 1>The potential for abuse there seems enormous.

439
00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:56.200
<v Speaker 2>It's hard to overstate. It represents a potential for complete,

440
00:21:56.440 --> 00:21:59.759
<v Speaker 2>forced loss of physical autonomy, with control handed over to

441
00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:00.759
<v Speaker 2>someone else entirely.

442
00:22:01.160 --> 00:22:03.519
<v Speaker 1>So it's clear governments could be interested in this, not

443
00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:06.519
<v Speaker 1>just for items, but for tracking people. The book mentions

444
00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:08.000
<v Speaker 1>refugee tracking early on.

445
00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:11.319
<v Speaker 2>Yes, that's a really stark example of what the authors

446
00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:15.400
<v Speaker 2>call function creep, how a technology developed for one thing

447
00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:16.559
<v Speaker 2>gets applied elsewhere.

448
00:22:16.599 --> 00:22:17.279
<v Speaker 1>What happened?

449
00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:20.720
<v Speaker 2>They report the US military used RFID laced bracelets on

450
00:22:20.759 --> 00:22:24.279
<v Speaker 2>Haitian and Cuban refugees held at Guantanamo Bay back in

451
00:22:24.359 --> 00:22:27.480
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety four, and the tech came from technology originally

452
00:22:27.519 --> 00:22:29.559
<v Speaker 2>developed for tracking farm animals.

453
00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:32.720
<v Speaker 1>Livestock tracking humans like cattle.

454
00:22:33.079 --> 00:22:37.799
<v Speaker 2>That's the uncomfortable parallel. The insight is how easily surveillance

455
00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:42.240
<v Speaker 2>tech designed for non humans gets adapted for people, often

456
00:22:42.279 --> 00:22:45.799
<v Speaker 2>starting with vulnerable groups who have less power to object.

457
00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:51.319
<v Speaker 1>And this idea expanded. The RAND Corporation discussed something called dmpi's.

458
00:22:50.519 --> 00:22:53.880
<v Speaker 2>Right, the deployable Mass Population Identification and Tracking System.

459
00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:55.039
<v Speaker 1>What was the context for that?

460
00:22:55.559 --> 00:22:58.799
<v Speaker 2>It came up in discussions about responding to bioterrorism. The

461
00:22:58.880 --> 00:23:01.440
<v Speaker 2>idea was a system to quickly round up, tag, and

462
00:23:01.599 --> 00:23:04.839
<v Speaker 2>track large groups of people in an emergency situation. The

463
00:23:04.839 --> 00:23:07.200
<v Speaker 2>worry is The worry is how quickly a system like

464
00:23:07.240 --> 00:23:10.000
<v Speaker 2>that designed for a crisis could be normalized and applied

465
00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:13.400
<v Speaker 2>more broadly, eroding civil liberties under the banner of safety

466
00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:14.039
<v Speaker 2>and security.

467
00:23:14.200 --> 00:23:16.359
<v Speaker 1>Passports were also on the crosshairs, weren't they.

468
00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:19.799
<v Speaker 2>Yes. Back around two thousand and five, the US stew

469
00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:23.000
<v Speaker 2>Department was planning to embed r FID chips in all

470
00:23:23.079 --> 00:23:26.759
<v Speaker 2>new passports. Encrypted Initially, the plan was for them to

471
00:23:26.759 --> 00:23:30.839
<v Speaker 2>be unencrypted, which raised huge privacy alarms, and the Department

472
00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:35.000
<v Speaker 2>of Homeland Security launched its US Visit program using RFID

473
00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:37.240
<v Speaker 2>for foreign visitors, tracking entries and.

474
00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:40.440
<v Speaker 1>Exits, so tracking people as they cross borders. And what

475
00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:43.200
<v Speaker 1>about on the roads. Toll tags aren't just for tolls.

476
00:23:43.319 --> 00:23:46.160
<v Speaker 2>That's another key point from the book. Those highway toll

477
00:23:46.200 --> 00:23:49.920
<v Speaker 2>transponders like the easy pass or systems in Houston they mentioned,

478
00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:52.200
<v Speaker 2>aren't just pinging when you go through the toll booth.

479
00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:53.359
<v Speaker 1>They're tracking elsewhere.

480
00:23:53.480 --> 00:23:56.839
<v Speaker 2>They can be. Readers placed miles away from the actual

481
00:23:56.920 --> 00:24:00.640
<v Speaker 2>tolls can track vehicle speeds and locations, atributing to this

482
00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:04.920
<v Speaker 2>bigger picture of intelligent vehicles that are constantly communicating their whereabouts.

483
00:24:05.359 --> 00:24:08.920
<v Speaker 2>It shifts from payment convenience to ubiquitous location tracking.

484
00:24:09.039 --> 00:24:12.319
<v Speaker 1>And this surveillance extends into workplaces and even schools.

485
00:24:12.599 --> 00:24:17.039
<v Speaker 2>Oh absolutely, we mentioned chipped employee badges tracking movement. The

486
00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:21.039
<v Speaker 2>book adds examples like woodward laboratories putting readers in bathrooms

487
00:24:21.079 --> 00:24:22.960
<v Speaker 2>to monitor if employees wash their hands.

488
00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:26.960
<v Speaker 1>Wow. Micromanagement to the extreme pretty much.

489
00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:30.759
<v Speaker 2>And in schools they cite Texas Instruments setting up a

490
00:24:30.799 --> 00:24:33.480
<v Speaker 2>system to track k through eight students at a charter

491
00:24:33.559 --> 00:24:34.960
<v Speaker 2>school in Buffalo, New.

492
00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:36.519
<v Speaker 1>York, tracking kids all day.

493
00:24:36.680 --> 00:24:40.200
<v Speaker 2>That was the idea, and UCLA had a smart kindergarten

494
00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:43.359
<v Speaker 2>project with RFID tags on the children on toys, even

495
00:24:43.400 --> 00:24:47.000
<v Speaker 2>on hats, plus microphones and cameras. The goal was an

496
00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:47.880
<v Speaker 2>all knowing.

497
00:24:47.640 --> 00:24:49.640
<v Speaker 1>Classroom, an all knowing classroom.

498
00:24:49.720 --> 00:24:52.720
<v Speaker 2>That sounds intense, it does, But there's a really important

499
00:24:52.759 --> 00:24:53.640
<v Speaker 2>counter story there too.

500
00:24:53.720 --> 00:24:54.799
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, what's that?

501
00:24:55.200 --> 00:24:59.319
<v Speaker 2>The book highlights successful parent protests, specifically in Suttern, California,

502
00:24:59.599 --> 00:25:02.599
<v Speaker 2>when this school district there tried to implement RFID tagged

503
00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:04.039
<v Speaker 2>name badges for students.

504
00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:05.000
<v Speaker 1>Parents pushed back.

505
00:25:05.119 --> 00:25:08.680
<v Speaker 2>They pushed back hard, organized, got media attention, brought in

506
00:25:08.799 --> 00:25:12.240
<v Speaker 2>privacy groups, and they won. The school had to withdraw

507
00:25:12.279 --> 00:25:12.759
<v Speaker 2>the program.

508
00:25:12.839 --> 00:25:15.000
<v Speaker 1>That's actually huge. It shows pushback can work.

509
00:25:15.079 --> 00:25:19.599
<v Speaker 2>It's a crucial takeaway. It demonstrates that informed, collective public

510
00:25:19.640 --> 00:25:24.240
<v Speaker 2>opposition really can force these systems to be reconsidered or abandoned.

511
00:25:24.319 --> 00:25:29.880
<v Speaker 1>Okay, lastly on applications, what about crime or just weird function?

512
00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:33.000
<v Speaker 2>Creep Well, on the creepy side, there's that accentric patent

513
00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:36.319
<v Speaker 2>They mentioned the real World showroom like that. It described

514
00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:39.039
<v Speaker 2>a system where individuals could use their PDAs. This was

515
00:25:39.039 --> 00:25:42.039
<v Speaker 2>two thousand and five tech Remember to scan other people's

516
00:25:42.119 --> 00:25:45.759
<v Speaker 2>clothes or purchases on the street. Scan strangers, why to

517
00:25:45.799 --> 00:25:49.759
<v Speaker 2>find out where they bought something? Maybe it's essentially enabling

518
00:25:49.799 --> 00:25:52.480
<v Speaker 2>electronic frisking by ordinary citizens.

519
00:25:52.039 --> 00:25:54.039
<v Speaker 1>Which raises serious concerns.

520
00:25:53.559 --> 00:25:58.000
<v Speaker 2>About stalking domestic violence. Imagine an abuser being able to

521
00:25:58.000 --> 00:26:01.200
<v Speaker 2>track their victims' purchases, maybe even their location, just by

522
00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:04.480
<v Speaker 2>scanning items they bought. The authors float a concept called

523
00:26:04.519 --> 00:26:09.319
<v Speaker 2>the rf Tracker Website, a fictional database linking RFID tags

524
00:26:09.359 --> 00:26:10.440
<v Speaker 2>to people chilling.

525
00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:12.640
<v Speaker 1>And then there was the really bizarre stuff like a

526
00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:13.440
<v Speaker 1>sniper rifle.

527
00:26:13.720 --> 00:26:16.119
<v Speaker 2>Ah, the ID sniper rifle that was actually a piece

528
00:26:16.119 --> 00:26:19.759
<v Speaker 2>of satirical art by Jacob Bosco. Yeah he faked this invention,

529
00:26:20.200 --> 00:26:25.319
<v Speaker 2>a rifle that could supposedly shoot GPS enabled RFID chips

530
00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:30.200
<v Speaker 2>into people from one thousand yards away cure commentary. But disturbingly,

531
00:26:30.519 --> 00:26:33.039
<v Speaker 2>the authors report that the Chinant's government apparently took it

532
00:26:33.079 --> 00:26:36.160
<v Speaker 2>seriously and inquired about dying it, which just shows how

533
00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:39.920
<v Speaker 2>quickly even outlandish surveillance ideas can seem plausible.

534
00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:41.799
<v Speaker 1>To some wow and guns themselves.

535
00:26:41.880 --> 00:26:45.599
<v Speaker 2>They mentioned smart guns, firearms designed only fire if they

536
00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:49.240
<v Speaker 2>detect a corresponding chip, maybe implanted in the authorized user,

537
00:26:49.559 --> 00:26:53.480
<v Speaker 2>apparently unpopular with police, and also government funded patents for

538
00:26:53.559 --> 00:26:56.680
<v Speaker 2>remotely disabling military weapons using RFID.

539
00:26:56.440 --> 00:26:59.480
<v Speaker 1>Taking control away even from the soldier holding the weapon.

540
00:26:59.599 --> 00:27:02.559
<v Speaker 2>Right. The critical insight running through all these examples is

541
00:27:02.599 --> 00:27:06.799
<v Speaker 2>constantly asking who really benefits from these security or efficiency

542
00:27:06.839 --> 00:27:10.160
<v Speaker 2>measures and what's the cost to individual freedom and privacy.

543
00:27:10.240 --> 00:27:12.680
<v Speaker 1>This whole deep dive, it paints a picture that's pretty

544
00:27:12.680 --> 00:27:16.400
<v Speaker 1>close to a nightmare scenario of total surveillance. The authors

545
00:27:16.440 --> 00:27:19.880
<v Speaker 1>even ask that really start question, what if Hitler had RFID.

546
00:27:20.279 --> 00:27:23.319
<v Speaker 2>They used that deliberately provocative question to make a very

547
00:27:23.359 --> 00:27:26.960
<v Speaker 2>serious point that this kind of technology could automate discrimination

548
00:27:27.079 --> 00:27:30.000
<v Speaker 2>and control on a massive scale, not just charging some

549
00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:34.799
<v Speaker 2>people higher prices, but potentially enabling digital redlining, meaning cutting

550
00:27:34.799 --> 00:27:38.960
<v Speaker 2>off entire groups or communities from essential services, digitally identifying

551
00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:43.440
<v Speaker 2>and isolating them based on data profiles. And they connect

552
00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:47.240
<v Speaker 2>this to the dangers of unchecked government power. How So,

553
00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:50.440
<v Speaker 2>they cite the work of RJ. Rummo on demicide death

554
00:27:50.440 --> 00:27:54.000
<v Speaker 2>by government, arguing that historically, governments with too much power

555
00:27:54.279 --> 00:27:56.640
<v Speaker 2>are far deadlier than random crime.

556
00:27:56.599 --> 00:27:58.839
<v Speaker 1>And surveillance enables that power.

557
00:27:58.880 --> 00:28:02.359
<v Speaker 2>Their argument is that of surveillance fundamentally serves the security

558
00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:05.359
<v Speaker 2>of the regime, not the safety of the citizens. It

559
00:28:05.480 --> 00:28:09.839
<v Speaker 2>chills descent, discourages social change, and makes opposition much harder.

560
00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:12.640
<v Speaker 1>So the erosion of privacy is absolutely central here.

561
00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:16.880
<v Speaker 2>It's fundamental. RFID, as envisioned by its proponents undermines our

562
00:28:16.920 --> 00:28:20.720
<v Speaker 2>basic everyday assumptions about privacy, like putting something in your

563
00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:24.240
<v Speaker 2>bag used to make it unseen, not anymore potentially.

564
00:28:24.279 --> 00:28:25.599
<v Speaker 1>And they warn't about a slow creep.

565
00:28:25.799 --> 00:28:29.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, a slow progression towards demanding fool proof ID. It

566
00:28:29.839 --> 00:28:33.400
<v Speaker 2>often starts they argue with groups on the margins prisoners,

567
00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:38.359
<v Speaker 2>the homeless, and expands to semi captive populations, the elderly

568
00:28:38.599 --> 00:28:42.119
<v Speaker 2>in care homes, school kids, the military, then maybe government

569
00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:43.880
<v Speaker 2>employees than private sector.

570
00:28:43.599 --> 00:28:47.880
<v Speaker 1>Workers, and eventually the general public, leading to embedded chips.

571
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:51.160
<v Speaker 2>That's the trajectory. They warn about, a slippery flope that

572
00:28:51.200 --> 00:28:53.319
<v Speaker 2>we need to recognize and resist early on.

573
00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:56.960
<v Speaker 1>Of course, the industry pushing RFID didn't just ignore these criticisms.

574
00:28:57.039 --> 00:29:00.200
<v Speaker 2>Now, the authors document what they call the continued bin

575
00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:04.279
<v Speaker 2>and sometimes outright slurs against opponents.

576
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:06.480
<v Speaker 1>Like calling critics confused or fringe.

577
00:29:06.079 --> 00:29:09.920
<v Speaker 2>Exactly, dismissing legitimate concerns instead of engaging with them. They

578
00:29:09.960 --> 00:29:13.559
<v Speaker 2>even mentioned that infamous email leak from the grocery Manufacturers

579
00:29:13.559 --> 00:29:14.079
<v Speaker 2>of America.

580
00:29:14.200 --> 00:29:14.720
<v Speaker 1>What was that?

581
00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:17.720
<v Speaker 2>Where GMA executives were apparently trying to dig up dirt

582
00:29:17.799 --> 00:29:21.720
<v Speaker 2>find juicy pasts on opponents like castn Albright herself, trying

583
00:29:21.720 --> 00:29:24.519
<v Speaker 2>to discredit the messenger instead of addressing the message.

584
00:29:24.599 --> 00:29:27.880
<v Speaker 1>So, face with all this, the tech, the corporate push,

585
00:29:28.039 --> 00:29:31.400
<v Speaker 1>the government interest, the pr spin, how do the author

586
00:29:31.480 --> 00:29:35.720
<v Speaker 1>suggest people actually fight back? They do offer some hope, right,

587
00:29:36.119 --> 00:29:37.359
<v Speaker 1>a message of victory.

588
00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:40.599
<v Speaker 2>Yes, this is really important. Their core message is actually

589
00:29:40.680 --> 00:29:46.079
<v Speaker 2>quite empowering. They emphasize that consumers collectively hold enormous power

590
00:29:46.160 --> 00:29:49.400
<v Speaker 2>market power. Exactly, we can effectively pull the plug on

591
00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:54.279
<v Speaker 2>the worst applications of RFID through our choices. How boycotts

592
00:29:54.319 --> 00:29:57.279
<v Speaker 2>boycotts are key. They urge readers to identify and boycott's

593
00:29:57.279 --> 00:30:03.079
<v Speaker 2>specific companies actively pushing invasive spikech They named Gillette, PNG, Walmart,

594
00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:06.720
<v Speaker 2>metro Tesco as examples from that time, and they point

595
00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:09.839
<v Speaker 2>to instances where boycotts did force companies to backtrack on

596
00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:11.000
<v Speaker 2>RFID plans.

597
00:30:11.079 --> 00:30:12.720
<v Speaker 1>So consumer pressure works.

598
00:30:12.559 --> 00:30:15.759
<v Speaker 2>It demonstrably has work, and legislation is crucial to like

599
00:30:15.799 --> 00:30:19.359
<v Speaker 2>what mandatory labeling. They strongly advocate for laws like the

600
00:30:19.400 --> 00:30:22.759
<v Speaker 2>proposed RFID Right to No Act, which would require clear,

601
00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:27.200
<v Speaker 2>unambiguous labels on any product containing an RFID.

602
00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:29.400
<v Speaker 1>Tag, giving people informed choice exactly.

603
00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:31.440
<v Speaker 2>Know what you're buying. And then on a personal level,

604
00:30:31.480 --> 00:30:34.480
<v Speaker 2>they list very concrete actions anyone can take, such as

605
00:30:34.680 --> 00:30:38.480
<v Speaker 2>use cash more often for anonymity, avoid store loyalty cards

606
00:30:38.559 --> 00:30:42.880
<v Speaker 2>that explicitly track every purchase, pay tolls with cash if possible,

607
00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:47.000
<v Speaker 2>get active, yeah, write letters to editors, contact public officials,

608
00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:51.079
<v Speaker 2>participate in protests if you feel strongly, return products with

609
00:30:51.160 --> 00:30:53.759
<v Speaker 2>hidden tags and tell the store why you're returning.

610
00:30:53.400 --> 00:30:55.599
<v Speaker 1>Them even small symbolic acts.

611
00:30:55.720 --> 00:30:59.759
<v Speaker 2>Wear a protest t shirt. Join privacy advocacy groups like Caspian,

612
00:31:00.119 --> 00:31:03.440
<v Speaker 2>which Catherine all Break co founded. Every action contributes to

613
00:31:03.519 --> 00:31:05.200
<v Speaker 2>raising awareness and building pressure.

614
00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:08.400
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So, wrapping up this deep dive, we've really journeyed

615
00:31:08.440 --> 00:31:12.559
<v Speaker 1>through how OURFID technology, which kind of disturbingly has these

616
00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:14.160
<v Speaker 1>roots in covert surveillance.

617
00:31:14.279 --> 00:31:18.240
<v Speaker 2>There's this undeniable potential for incredibly pervasive tracking, yeah, affecting

618
00:31:18.279 --> 00:31:21.880
<v Speaker 2>almost every corner of our lives, shopping, travel, healthcare.

619
00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:24.880
<v Speaker 1>Work, and raising these huge questions about privacy, ci celebrities,

620
00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:29.319
<v Speaker 1>corporate power, government surveillance. The potential for misuse seems immense.

621
00:31:29.599 --> 00:31:33.680
<v Speaker 2>It does the ability for corporations and governments to gather

622
00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:38.160
<v Speaker 2>just unprecedented amounts of data about what we own, where

623
00:31:38.200 --> 00:31:42.000
<v Speaker 2>we go, even our intimate habits, often maybe usually without

624
00:31:42.079 --> 00:31:43.640
<v Speaker 2>us even knowing or agreeing to it.

625
00:31:43.799 --> 00:31:46.400
<v Speaker 1>But and this is the crucial countupoint from the authors,

626
00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:48.599
<v Speaker 1>it's not necessarily inevitable.

627
00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:51.000
<v Speaker 2>Exactly as we saw with the Sutter School protests, as

628
00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:55.440
<v Speaker 2>we saw with Benetton Boycott. Informed collective action does have power.

629
00:31:55.480 --> 00:31:57.720
<v Speaker 2>It can influence companies, it can influence policy.

630
00:31:57.920 --> 00:32:01.920
<v Speaker 1>So your choices, your actions as a consumer, as a citizen,

631
00:32:02.680 --> 00:32:04.960
<v Speaker 1>they really do matter. And deciding what kind of future

632
00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:06.319
<v Speaker 1>we build with this technology.

633
00:32:06.359 --> 00:32:09.200
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely so, maybe here's a final thought to leave you

634
00:32:09.240 --> 00:32:12.319
<v Speaker 2>with something to mull over. Go on. Remember those RFID

635
00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:16.160
<v Speaker 2>enabled artificial rocks the book mentioned, Yeah, supposedly developed to

636
00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:18.880
<v Speaker 2>sit by a path and listen sense approaching footsteps.

637
00:32:19.400 --> 00:32:21.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that was weirdly specific.

638
00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:23.359
<v Speaker 2>It makes you wonder, doesn't it. What does it mean

639
00:32:23.480 --> 00:32:27.240
<v Speaker 2>for our future when even the simulated nature around us

640
00:32:27.319 --> 00:32:29.599
<v Speaker 2>might be listening. Where is the next hidden sensor going

641
00:32:29.599 --> 00:32:31.960
<v Speaker 2>to turn up? Something to think about until our next

642
00:32:31.960 --> 00:32:32.480
<v Speaker 2>deep dive
