Speaker 1: Look out, we come all the things, beat it on
Speaker 1: the bottom. All I want is you. You're my favorite view.
Speaker 1: But there's nothing move.
Speaker 2: And we are back.
Speaker 3: Welcome back, bumble bitches.
Speaker 4: Today we're gonna be going over borderline personality disorder and abuse.
Speaker 4: What it looks like to be with somebody who has
Speaker 4: borderline that is unchecked. We could say, somebody that has
Speaker 4: done nothing to start doing the things necessary to heal themselves.
Speaker 4: And this is a document that I put together and
Speaker 4: we are going to read it. And my lovely wife
Speaker 4: is going to interrupt me when she feels the need
Speaker 4: to do so.
Speaker 2: All right, all right.
Speaker 4: One of the biggest mistakes that people make when talking
Speaker 4: about borderline personality disorder is swinging to one of two extremes.
Speaker 4: Either they believe someone is simply mentally ill and can't
Speaker 4: help what they do, or they believe everyone BPD is abusive.
Speaker 4: Neither position is accurate. A diagnosis describes a collection of
Speaker 4: symptoms and patterns. It does not determine a person's character.
Speaker 4: It doesn't tell you whether someone is honest, compassionate, manipulative, accountability, accountable,
Speaker 4: excuse me, or committed to growth. Those qualities come from
Speaker 4: the individual and not the diagnosis. I've met people with
Speaker 4: BPD who are incredibly self aware. They know their triggers,
Speaker 4: They recognize when they're beginning to spiral, they apologize when
Speaker 4: they've hurt someone. They go to therapy consistently, They practice DBT,
Speaker 4: which is dialectic behavioral therapy. They journal, they ask for feedback,
Speaker 4: They work every day to become safer people to love.
Speaker 4: I've also seen people who use the diagnosis as a
Speaker 4: permission slip, where every outburst, every accusation, and every broken
Speaker 4: boundary gets explained with you know how my BPD is.
Speaker 4: Those two are completely different people, and a diagnosis can
Speaker 4: be a diagnosis can explain the behavior, but it never excuses.
Speaker 3: It anything that know how my BPD is.
Speaker 5: If I'm trying to have a conversation with somebody, right,
Speaker 5: this is a This is a relationship with somebody that
Speaker 5: I care about, Like my husband, the perfect example, who
Speaker 5: has borderline and we're having a conversation. He has a
Speaker 5: super and I'm making this up. He has a super
Speaker 5: explosive reaction and he calls me a name and tells
Speaker 5: me that I'm crazy, slams the door, calls his best
Speaker 5: friend and inserts telling his best friend that I'm a bitch,
Speaker 5: and I'm trying to have a conversation with my husband
Speaker 5: after the fact, right, I'm in myself mad.
Speaker 3: Trying to have a conversation with about that. After the fact.
Speaker 5: I'm saying things like, I understand how you got upset,
Speaker 5: I'm making room for you to give me your experience
Speaker 5: and all those kinds of things. And then I tell
Speaker 5: you that your reaction right, because that was not a response.
Speaker 5: Your reaction was vastly inappropriate, and that is not how
Speaker 5: I want to be treated by my husband. And my
Speaker 5: husband hits me with, well, that's you know how my
Speaker 5: borderline works. I can't think of a nice way to
Speaker 5: say it. That just sounds stupid to me. Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 5: Like I want to tell my eight year old son
Speaker 5: try again, right, that that's not the answer. That's not
Speaker 5: I mean, it is a answer, but in a mature
Speaker 5: adult relationship circumstance, right, it doesn't have to be a marriage.
Speaker 5: We're trying to have in depth problem solving conversations here,
Speaker 5: not pointing fingers while we're playing four square?
Speaker 3: Did that paint the picture?
Speaker 5: Well?
Speaker 4: Enough?
Speaker 2: Did? So?
Speaker 4: It's an important distinction to make because BPD itself does
Speaker 4: not cause abuse. Abuse is a pattern of behavior involving control, intimidation, manipulation,
Speaker 4: or repeated disregard for another person's well being. Someone with
Speaker 4: untreated BPD may become emotionally dysregulated, impulsive, terrified of abandonment,
Speaker 4: or experience intense distortions during conflict. Those symptoms can absolutely
Speaker 4: contribute to abusive behavior if they aren't addressed, but they
Speaker 4: can also be managed. Thousands of people with BPD live
Speaker 4: very healthy lives because they've accepted responsibility for learning how
Speaker 4: their mind works instead of expecting everyone else to adapt
Speaker 4: to it. You cannot expect people in your life to
Speaker 4: fucking cater to your every whim. You are the center
Speaker 4: of your universe, but not the center of the universe,
Speaker 4: and we are all supposed to be working together in
Speaker 4: this anything.
Speaker 3: Nope, just my predator clicks in agreement.
Speaker 2: Okay, I can't do it. I tried.
Speaker 4: One of the defining features of BPD is emotional intensity.
Speaker 4: People often assume that emotions are fake or exaggerated. They're not.
Speaker 4: The emotions are very real. The nervous system is experiencing
Speaker 4: genuine fear, shame, rejection, or abandonment. The problem isn't usually
Speaker 4: the feeling. The problem is the interpretation attached to the feeling.
Speaker 4: This is where emotional reasoning becomes dangerous. Emotional reasoning says
Speaker 4: I feel rejected, therefore you rejected me. Healthy thinking says
Speaker 4: I feel rejected. Let me slow down and figure out
Speaker 4: whether this is actually what happened. Feelings are always real.
Speaker 4: They tell us something is happening inside of us. They
Speaker 4: don't automatically tell us what is happening outside of us.
Speaker 4: We tell ourselves stories within seconds, and those stories become
Speaker 4: our reality very quick. So imagine someone doesn't answer a
Speaker 4: text message for a few hours. A person without abandonment
Speaker 4: sensitivity might assume that they're busy. Someone who's untreated BPD
Speaker 4: may genuinely experience that silence as evidence that the relationship
Speaker 4: is ending. Their heart races, their mind begins searching for
Speaker 4: proof that they've done something wrong. Before long, they're sending
Speaker 4: angry messages, accusing their partner of not caring, or threatening
Speaker 4: to leave first before they can be abandoned. The emotional
Speaker 4: experience is authentic, the conclusion often is not. One reason
Speaker 4: this happens is because many people would BPD struggle to
Speaker 4: stable the sense of self, their identity can feel fragile
Speaker 4: or inconsistent, so relationships become the place where emotional stability
Speaker 4: is sought. When the relationship feels threatened, the nervous system
Speaker 4: often reacts as though survival itself is threatened. To someone
Speaker 4: outside the experience, the reaction can seem wildly disproportionate. To
Speaker 4: the person experiencing it, it feels completely justified because their
Speaker 4: body has already decided they're in danger.
Speaker 3: The world's not ending, their world is ending.
Speaker 4: Fucking right, It is fucking right, it is, And like,
Speaker 4: as somebody again, you know, we both have borderline. I
Speaker 4: used to have people that I had to call when
Speaker 4: I was feeling something to be like, hey, this is
Speaker 4: what's going on in my life. I need to know
Speaker 4: if I'm overreacting or not, because my response to the
Speaker 4: situation felt very, very justified because what I was feeling.
Speaker 4: The reality is is most people would hear what I
Speaker 4: was going through and be like, it's not really that
Speaker 4: big of a deal, bro, And like I would have
Speaker 4: to talk myself of a ledge and then have to
Speaker 4: work through what I was going through to make it
Speaker 4: so that I wasn't fucking flying off the handle that
Speaker 4: survival response often activates familiar trauma patterns. Some people fight,
Speaker 4: some people flee, some shut down, some desperately seek reassurance.
Speaker 4: These reactions aren't necessarily conscious choices in the moment. They
Speaker 4: are automatic responses learned through years of emotional pain. But
Speaker 4: automatic doesn't mean permanent. One of the goals of therapy
Speaker 4: is creating enough awareness that a person begins interrupting those
Speaker 4: automatic reactions before they become destructive. That's what progress actually
Speaker 4: looks like. It isn't never getting triggered. It isn't becoming
Speaker 4: emotionally perfect. It's reducing the time between the trigger and
Speaker 4: the accountability. Someone may still feel overwhelming fear, but instead
Speaker 4: of sending twenty angry text messages, they pause, They use
Speaker 4: grounding techniques, They check the facts, They wait until their
Speaker 4: nervous system settles before responding, and then the emotions. The
Speaker 4: emotions haven't disappeared, but the behavior will change. Another concept
Speaker 4: is often associated with BPD is something called splitting. Splitting
Speaker 4: is the tendency to see people in extreme someone is
Speaker 4: either completely wonderful or completely terrible, depending on the emotional
Speaker 4: experience of the moment. Yesterday, your partner was your soulmate.
Speaker 4: Today they're selfish, uncaring, and you've never been happy. Tomorrow
Speaker 4: they're the love of your life again. The partner experiences
Speaker 4: emotional whiplash because they never know which version of themselves
Speaker 4: they're about to encounter. Over time, that unpredictability changes the
Speaker 4: person the other person. They begin monitoring every word they say,
Speaker 4: every facial expression, every change in tone, every delayed response.
Speaker 4: They aren't communicating naturally anymore. They're trying to prevent another
Speaker 4: emotional explosion. Without realizing it, they've stopped participating in the
Speaker 4: relationship and started managing someone else's nervous system. This is
Speaker 4: where conversations about gaslighting become more nuanced. True gaslighting involves
Speaker 4: intentionally manipulating a person's perception of reality. Not everyone with
Speaker 4: BPDS gaslighting, However, someone experiencing intense emotional dysregulation may genuinely
Speaker 4: remember events differently because they're emotional state changed how they
Speaker 4: interpret what happened. They may sincerely believe something occurred that
Speaker 4: didn't to the partner, the experience can feel nearly identical
Speaker 4: to gaslighting because they're constantly questioning their own memory, rereading messages,
Speaker 4: replaying conversations, and wondering if they're losing touch with reality.
Speaker 4: We've talked about this on the podcast already. I'm just
Speaker 4: bringing up again real quick this. This happened to us
Speaker 4: in Real Time Season one. We were sitting back here
Speaker 4: recording when we had the table, and I thought we
Speaker 4: were in major conflict, and she went away. We were
Speaker 4: done recording and I was editing, and I asked her
Speaker 4: to come back here, and she came back and she's
Speaker 4: standing next to me, and I played it and she's like, okay,
Speaker 4: and I'm like, I thought we were fighting, Like I'm mad,
Speaker 4: Like I'm fucking going through a whole gambit of emotions
Speaker 4: right now. I really thought that you and I were
Speaker 4: in the middle of conflict, and watching it back like
Speaker 4: what I believed was happening in my head clearly didn't
Speaker 4: fucking happen. This is very real for people who have
Speaker 4: borderline our emotional response to things, it's it can create
Speaker 4: illusions like we get so overwhelmed and over emotional that
Speaker 4: like the stories that we tell ourselves in the moment
Speaker 4: becomes so very fucking solidified that that's our truth and
Speaker 4: it's not it's not always true, And that shit broke me,
Speaker 4: Like I fucking cried over that. I always knew that
Speaker 4: I couldn't trust my emotions, but I didn't know that
Speaker 4: it went to that extreme. Having that wake up call
Speaker 4: to me was unlike anything. It was like I was
Speaker 4: living somebody else's life in the moment. It was fucked up.
Speaker 4: So whether the distortion is intentional or not doesn't erase
Speaker 4: the impact. Intent helps explain why something happened. Impact tells
Speaker 4: us what damaged it caused, and that's why accountability matters
Speaker 4: so much. The healthiest response after conflict isn't proving who
Speaker 4: was right, it's asking what happened here and what responsibility
Speaker 4: belongs to me. Healthy accountability sounds like I understand why
Speaker 4: I reacted that way, but I still hurt you and
Speaker 4: I need to do better. Unhealthy accountability sounds like you
Speaker 4: know my BPD is or how my BPD is. The
Speaker 4: first statement uses the diagnosis to create understanding, the second
Speaker 4: uses it to avoid accountability. It's the problem anything, Nope,
Speaker 4: all right. One of the hardest parts, especially if you've
Speaker 4: loved someone with untreated BPD, is separating their pain from
Speaker 4: the damage that they cause. You know that they're suffering,
Speaker 4: You know their childhood may have been filled with trauma, abandonment,
Speaker 4: or neglect. Your empathy grows. At first that feels compassionate.
Speaker 4: Eventually it becomes self abandonment because you begin accepting behavior
Speaker 4: that you would not never tolerate from anyone else. You
Speaker 4: stop asking whether the relationship is healthy and start asking
Speaker 4: how you can avoid upsetting them. You become hypervigilant. Your
Speaker 4: emotional world revolves around preventing their next spiral. That's not intimy,
Speaker 4: it's not intimacy, it's survival. Many people mistake emotional intensity
Speaker 4: for emotional closeness, but they are very different things. Intensity
Speaker 4: is unpredictable and consuming, and intimacy feels emotionally safe. This
Speaker 4: is why boundaries are an act of love, not punishment.
Speaker 4: You can fully understand why someone reacts the way that
Speaker 4: they do while still refusing to accept the behavior. You
Speaker 4: could acknowledge their abandonment wound and still say you don't
Speaker 4: get to scream at me because you're scared. Compassion and
Speaker 4: accountability are not opposites, and healthy relationships they exist together.
Speaker 4: Moving on to the next principle.
Speaker 5: I just want to say that that last one is
Speaker 5: not hard. It's not hard to not yell at you
Speaker 5: or to raise my voice here, or to call you
Speaker 5: names and all those kinds of things. Can't remember we
Speaker 5: were listening to a book or reading a book and
Speaker 5: they said that the person you're not the You're not
Speaker 5: the reason that the person yelled. The person wanted to yell,
Speaker 5: and they used you as the excuse to do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's courage to be disliked.
Speaker 3: Yes, that was a lot of my borderline.
Speaker 5: I'm not going to speak for the world's borderline, but
Speaker 5: there is a repetitive pattern that borderline is used in
Speaker 5: an excuse to to get away with things because borderlines
Speaker 5: developed through trauma. Yeah right, borderline almost said at attendees,
Speaker 5: like we're going to events people who have borderline, it
Speaker 5: is we are victims who slowly transform into abusers, and
Speaker 5: it's done as a survival Mechanism's fucked up. It's a
Speaker 5: fucked up cycle, but it's definitely something that you can break.
Speaker 5: My husband and I both with borderline. We do not
Speaker 5: scream at each other. We do not yell at each other.
Speaker 5: We do not call each other names. We do not
Speaker 5: cuss at each other when we're upset. Took a whole
Speaker 5: lot of work though self mastery. Yeah, guys, I'm gonna apologize. Sorry,
Speaker 5: I'm gonna apologize about the noise is gonna come through
Speaker 5: the mic carry is using a screw gun back there. Okay,
Speaker 5: so this principle extends far beyond BPD. Depression doesn't excuse cruelty,
Speaker 5: ADHD doesn't excuse chronic disrespect, PTSD doesn't excuse violence. Anxiety
Speaker 5: does not excuse controlling behavior. Every diagnosis deserves compassion, but
Speaker 5: every person remains responsible for what they do with their pain.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna read that again. Every person remains responsible for
Speaker 4: what they do with their pain. The people I've seen
Speaker 4: make the greatest progress aren't the ones whose symptoms disappear.
Speaker 4: They're the ones who stopped defending their symptoms. They became
Speaker 4: curious instead of protective. Instead of asking why can't people
Speaker 4: understand me? They began to ask why or what excuse me?
Speaker 4: What effect does this have on the people I love?
Speaker 4: And that's where healing begins. It's not shame, its ownership.
Speaker 4: The same is true for the partner. Healing doesn't begin
Speaker 4: when the other person finally changes. It begins when you
Speaker 4: stop abandoning yourself in the name of understanding someone else's diagnosis.
Speaker 4: You can have endless compassion for another person's wounds without
Speaker 4: sacrificing your own well being. Understanding why someone behaves the
Speaker 4: way they do should never require you to disconnect from
Speaker 4: your own reality. The healthiest relationships aren't built because two
Speaker 4: people have no wounds. They're built because people are willing
Speaker 4: to take responsibility for what those wounds produce. That's true
Speaker 4: whether someone has BPD or no diagnosis at all. Accountability
Speaker 4: is what turns pain into growth. Without it, pain simply
Speaker 4: gets passed from one person to the next. Another pattern
Speaker 4: that people often struggle to understand is how quickly love
Speaker 4: can seem to transform into punishment and healthy relationships. Conflict
Speaker 4: might change how someone feels in the moment, but it
Speaker 4: doesn't completely rewrite who their partner is. With untreated BPD,
Speaker 4: emotional perception can shift so dramatically that the entire relationship
Speaker 4: seems to change in an instant. One day, you're described
Speaker 4: as the most understanding, loving, and safe person they've ever known.
Speaker 4: A few hours later, your selfish, manipulative, uncaring, or exactly
Speaker 4: like everyone else who's ever hurt them. From your perspective,
Speaker 4: nothing significant happened from theirs. Everything changed because their emotional
Speaker 4: experience has changed. This is often connected to what's known
Speaker 4: as splitting. Splitting is someone consciously deciding to paint you
Speaker 4: as the villain. It's difficulty holding on to two seemingly
Speaker 4: opposite truths at the same time. It's hard to believe
Speaker 4: that someone can deeply love you while also disappointing you.
Speaker 4: It's difficult to accept that someone can make a mistake
Speaker 4: without becoming a bad person. When emotions become overwhelming, the
Speaker 4: minds simplified reality into two extremes. You're either completely safe
Speaker 4: or completely dangerous, completely loving or rejecting. That black and
Speaker 4: white thinking can make relationships feel incredibly unstable because your
Speaker 4: place within them is constantly shifting. The painful part for
Speaker 4: the partner is that they're trying to solve a problem
Speaker 4: that doesn't actually belong to them. They assume, if I
Speaker 4: can just explain myself better, or if I can choose
Speaker 4: my words more carefully, then maybe the misunderstanding won't happen again,
Speaker 4: So they begin editing themselves. They think three steps ahead
Speaker 4: before speaking. They rehearse difficult conversations in the shower. They
Speaker 4: delete text messages before sending them because they worry about
Speaker 4: how they will be interpreted. They become less authentic, not
Speaker 4: because they're dishonest, but because they're trying to avoid another
Speaker 4: emotional explosion. Over time, this creates what people commonly describe
Speaker 4: as walking on eggshells. That phrase gets so often, it
Speaker 4: gets that phrase gets used so often it loses its meaning.
Speaker 4: But if you lived it, you know exactly what it
Speaker 4: feels like. You're constantly scanning for danger. You pay attention
Speaker 4: to the subtle chain and tone, facial expressions, pauses, and
Speaker 4: in conversation, you stop bringing up your own concerns because
Speaker 4: you already know that the conversation is where it's likely
Speaker 4: going to end. Instead of discussing the original issue, you'll
Speaker 4: spend the next two hours defending your character, your intentions,
Speaker 4: or your love for them. Eventually, silence starts feeling like
Speaker 4: the safer honesty. I've mentioned splitting and stopped in the
Speaker 4: eggshell thing a lot in this document for two reasons.
Speaker 4: Splitting gets asked about every time we talk about it.
Speaker 4: When VPD gets brought up, everybody wants to know it's splitting,
Speaker 4: and so it's been mentioned a lot in this document.
Speaker 4: And then the eggshell thing is because of the book.
Speaker 4: Stop walking on eggshells. If you are in a relationship
Speaker 4: with somebody who has borderline, you should be reading that book.
Speaker 4: It's going to give you a whole lot of information
Speaker 4: about the mood swings and how you should handle it
Speaker 4: as a partner so that you don't become an authentic
Speaker 4: version of you. So the tragedy is that this doesn't
Speaker 4: create peace, It creates an emotional isolation. The relationship begins
Speaker 4: revolving around one person's nervous system while the other person's
Speaker 4: needs slowly disappear. The partner becomes so focused on preventing
Speaker 4: in the next crisis that they stop asking for what
Speaker 4: they need, their boundaries soft in, their opinions become quieter,
Speaker 4: their emotional world shrinks because maintaining stability feels more important
Speaker 4: than being understood. The fear of abandonment is another area
Speaker 4: that is frequently misunderstood. Most people hear those words and
Speaker 4: picture someone simply wanting extra reassurance or needs to hear
Speaker 4: I love you more. Often sometimes that's exactly what it
Speaker 4: looks like, but untreated abandonment wounds can become much more
Speaker 4: controlling because the goal shifts from receiving reassurance to trying
Speaker 4: to eliminate uncertainty altogether. That's why seemingly ordinary situations can
Speaker 4: become major conflicts. Why are you going out with your friends?
Speaker 4: Why didn't you answer your phone? Who were you texting?
Speaker 4: Why do you need to be by yourself? Why didn't
Speaker 4: you tell me sooner? Why do you need space? Individually,
Speaker 4: none of those questions are inherently unhealthy. Healthy couples ask questions.
Speaker 4: Healthy couples seek reassurance. The difference is the frequency and tensity,
Speaker 4: and whether the questions are actually seeking understanding or trying
Speaker 4: to eliminate anxiety. The difficult truth is that uncertainty can
Speaker 4: never be completely eliminated. No amount of reassurance permanently heals
Speaker 4: an abandonment wound. The relief is temporary because the fear
Speaker 4: doesn't originate from the present relationship. Read that again, guys.
Speaker 4: The relief is temporary because the fear doesn't or originate
Speaker 4: in the present relationship. It originates in older experiences that
Speaker 4: taught the nervous system that people leave, love disappears, and
Speaker 4: safety cannot be trusted. If those deeper wounds aren't addressed,
Speaker 4: reassurance becomes like pouring water into a bucket with a
Speaker 4: fucking hole in the bottom. It helps for a moment,
Speaker 4: but soon the anxiety returns and demands even more.
Speaker 2: Why am I having such a hard time saying that
Speaker 2: I don't know? Moving on?
Speaker 4: This is why many partners eventually find themselves trapped in
Speaker 4: an impossible cycle. They reassure more, they check in more,
Speaker 4: they give up time with friends, they share passwords, they
Speaker 4: answer every single phone call immediately, they stop asking for space.
Speaker 4: For brief period, things improve, then the anxiety, a new
Speaker 4: uncertainty to focus on. The standard keeps moving because the
Speaker 4: real problem was never your behavior, It was the nervous
Speaker 4: system's inability to tolerate not knowing what I'm just pausing
Speaker 4: for effect, okay. One of the most heartbreaking dynamics involves
Speaker 4: threats of self harm or suicide during relationship conflict. Statements
Speaker 4: like statements like if you leave, I don't know what
Speaker 4: I'll do where if you loved me, you wouldn't walk
Speaker 4: away place an enormous emotional burden on the other person.
Speaker 4: In those moments, people often become trapped by a question
Speaker 4: they can't answer. Is this genuine desperation or is this manipulation?
Speaker 4: Are they serious? What if I leave and something actually happens?
Speaker 5: I would That's exactly what I've had. I remember one
Speaker 5: guy specifically send me pictures of him harming himself because
Speaker 5: I didn't want to be with him anymore, and at
Speaker 5: that time I didn't. I fucking fed into it, and
Speaker 5: I allowed myself to be manipulated and all those kinds
Speaker 5: of things.
Speaker 3: I should have called the cops.
Speaker 5: I should have looked at those photos, been like, Okay,
Speaker 5: this is what's happening, and be like, I need a
Speaker 5: wellness check. Here's the address. I got photos of them
Speaker 5: harming themselves. They say that they're gonna control all delete
Speaker 5: check on them please, yep. And if they get Baker acted,
Speaker 5: that's not my fault. That is not my fault either.
Speaker 5: People who want to use those extremes to try and continue.
Speaker 3: To control people fucking need help.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: That's not how okay human beings behave.
Speaker 4: I actually think that's the best thing that you can
Speaker 4: do for somebody in one of those situations, because they
Speaker 4: do clearly need the help.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: The reality is that from the partner's perspective, the distinction
Speaker 4: often doesn't change what they experience, whether those statements come
Speaker 4: from overwhelming panic or a conscious attempt to stop someone
Speaker 4: from leaving, the effect is the same. Someone else's safety
Speaker 4: becomes your responsibility. Your choices stop being based on what's
Speaker 4: healthy and start being based on fear. You remain in
Speaker 4: situations you know are harming you because you are terrified
Speaker 4: of what might happen if you leave. It becomes a
Speaker 4: psychological prison that creates an abusive dynamic regardless of intention.
Speaker 4: This is one of those places where intent and impact
Speaker 4: need to be separated. Intent matters when deciding what kind
Speaker 4: of treatment someone needs. A therapist needs to understand whether
Speaker 4: the behavior comes from trauma, emotional dysregulation, personality structure, or
Speaker 4: something else entirely, but inside of a relationship, impact matters
Speaker 4: just as much. If someone repeatedly uses the possibility of
Speaker 4: harming themselves to influence your decisions, your freedom to choose
Speaker 4: has been compromised. It's also important to understand that manipulation
Speaker 4: isn't always calculated. People often imagine manipulation as someone sitting
Speaker 4: in a room carefully plotting how to control another person,
Speaker 4: and reality, manipulation is frequently much less conscious than that.
Speaker 4: Sometimes it's panic, sometimes it's survival. Sometimes it's a childlike
Speaker 4: part of the nervous system. Repeating strategies that once worked
Speaker 4: because chaos was the only language that got attention, comfort,
Speaker 4: or protection. That explanation can generate tremendous amounts of compassion.
Speaker 2: It should.
Speaker 4: Many of these behaviors develop because they were adaptive at
Speaker 4: one point in life, but understanding where they came from
Speaker 4: doesn't mean that they should continue unchecked. We can have
Speaker 4: compassion for somebody's history while still requiring healthy behavior in
Speaker 4: the present. Those two things are not in conflict with
Speaker 4: one another. This is why the biggest red flag is
Speaker 4: an emotional intensity itself. Everyone becomes emotionally overwhelmed. Sometimes, everyone
Speaker 4: loses control. Everyone says things they regret. The defining question
Speaker 4: isn't whether someone has emotional outbursts, it's what happens afterwards.
Speaker 4: Do they become curious about their own behavior or do
Speaker 4: they become defensive? Do they know how they affected you?
Speaker 4: Or do they immediately explain why you deserved it? I
Speaker 4: fucking hate that that you deserved it, liney like that
Speaker 4: is and immediately I'm.
Speaker 3: Out, Well if you didn't do this?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Do they acknowledge your pain or do they redirect the
Speaker 4: conversation back to their own Every emotional explosion somehow becomes
Speaker 4: your fault and growth becomes impossible. If every boundary is
Speaker 4: interpreted as abandonment, then boundaries disappear. If every consequence is
Speaker 4: framed as proof that you don't love them, then accountability
Speaker 4: never has room to exist. If every apology arrives wrapped
Speaker 4: inside of an excuse, nothing will ever actually change because
Speaker 4: responsibility has been given away. Healthy accountability sounds completely different.
Speaker 4: It sounds like I know I split on you, I
Speaker 4: wasn't seeing you clearly. I understand how this damaged our trust.
Speaker 4: I handled my fear by trying to control you, and
Speaker 4: that wasn't okay. I'm working on slowing myself down before
Speaker 4: I react. If you notice what's absent from those statements,
Speaker 4: there's no attempt to shift responsibility back onto the other person.
Speaker 4: There's no expectation that forgiveness should erase the need for change,
Speaker 4: and there's no demand that empathy should replace accountability. And
Speaker 4: that's what genuine recovery looks like. It's not perfection, it's
Speaker 4: the app it's not perfection, it's not the absence of triggers,
Speaker 4: it's not ever having another difficult day. Recovery becomes obvious
Speaker 4: because the person and stops defending their behaviors that are
Speaker 4: damaging the people they love. They become less interested in
Speaker 4: proving their reactions made sense and more interested in understanding
Speaker 4: their impact. That's where trust begins to rebuild. Ultimately, relationships
Speaker 4: don't heal because somebody finally explains why they behave they do.
Speaker 4: They heal when the explanations become the starting point for
Speaker 4: responsibility instead of the substitute for it. Understanding creates compassion,
Speaker 4: Accountability create safety, and healthy requires a relationship to have both.
Speaker 4: Anything all right one of the statements we hear all
Speaker 4: the times, I can't help it. I think there's some truth. Yeah,
Speaker 4: I think there's some truth to that, But only up
Speaker 4: to a point. Can someone always control the emotion that
Speaker 4: rises up inside of them? No, No one can fear anger, shame, jealousy, grief.
Speaker 4: Those emotions often arrive before we've had a chance to
Speaker 4: really choose them. I think that on a nervous system level,
Speaker 4: they're automatic. They are the product of our nervous system
Speaker 4: and our past experiences, in the way that our brain
Speaker 4: has learned to interpret the world. Where the choice enters,
Speaker 4: the pictures what happens next. There's a distinction between an
Speaker 4: emotional impulse and a behavioral response. Feeling rage is not
Speaker 4: the same as screaming. Screaming is the choice rages the
Speaker 4: emotion right. Feeling abandoned isn't the same as threatening someone.
Speaker 4: Feeling terrified isn't the same as manipulating another person into stain.
Speaker 4: The emotion may not be voluntary, but the behavior can
Speaker 4: be voluntary through awareness, practice, and repetition. It's one of
Speaker 4: the central goals of therapy. If people had no control
Speaker 4: over what they did, treatment wouldn't work. Dialectic behavioral therapy,
Speaker 4: one of the most effective treatments for BPD, is built
Speaker 4: on the assumption that people can learn new ways of
Speaker 4: responding to old emotions. It teaches mindfulness so that people
Speaker 4: notice what's happening before they're consumed by it. It teaches
Speaker 4: distress tolerance so that they can survive overwhelming emotions while
Speaker 4: acting impulsively without excuse me, without acting impulsively. It teaches
Speaker 4: emotional regulation so feelings become less explosive over time. It
Speaker 4: teaches interpersonal effectiveness so that people can ask for what
Speaker 4: they need without resorting to threats, accusations, or emotional chaos.
Speaker 4: The existence of successful treatment tells us that people are
Speaker 4: capable of change, but not everyone chooses it. The existence
Speaker 4: of successful treatment tells us something important. People are capable
Speaker 4: of change, not everyone chooses it, not everyone has access
Speaker 4: to it, and not everyone sticks with it, but many do.
Speaker 4: That's why I never accept the idea that someone is
Speaker 4: simply destined to hurt everyone around them because of a diagnosis.
Speaker 4: The research, and more importantly, the lived experience of thousands
Speaker 4: of people in recovery tell a very different story. We
Speaker 4: tried to record this in the beginning, and I was
Speaker 4: on the wrong document, and at the beginning of the
Speaker 4: last one that we were recording, I don't believe that
Speaker 4: I fit the criteria for borderline anymore. I've had it
Speaker 4: my entire life. I've done enough therapy and enough healing,
Speaker 4: enough self help, growth, whatever you want to call it,
Speaker 4: shadow work that though I still have moments where I
Speaker 4: get triggered, I think that I'm way off that scale now,
Speaker 4: And like, I do believe that anyone can be healed
Speaker 4: from BPD. You know, you compared to when I met you,
Speaker 4: is a very different person. Yeah, So, like there's a
Speaker 4: whole lot of growth that can happen, but the work
Speaker 4: fucking has to get done, and it's not an overnight thing.
Speaker 4: And the hardest part about this is until you have
Speaker 4: an episode, it's all theory. When you have an episode
Speaker 4: and get triggered and you allow that emotion to take over,
Speaker 4: all of that theory goes out the fucking window. A
Speaker 4: lot of the times you forget everything you learned and
Speaker 4: you have to like try to regain that in the
Speaker 4: moment of conflict when your emotional system is freaking the
Speaker 4: fuck out.
Speaker 3: It's hard to do in the beginning.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 4: It is a fucking nightmare, but it's possible, and you
Speaker 4: just have to continue to stick with it. That's why
Speaker 4: when someone tells me they have borderline personality disorder, my
Speaker 4: first thought isn't they're dangerous? My first thought is what
Speaker 4: are you doing with that information? A diagnosis is valuable
Speaker 4: because it gives you a map. It helps you explain
Speaker 4: why certain patterns keep repeating. But a map only matters
Speaker 4: if you're willing to follow it. Are you learning about
Speaker 4: your triggers? Are you practicing the skills that you've been taught?
Speaker 4: Are you becoming curious about your own reactions instead of
Speaker 4: automatically defending them? Are you apologizing when you've caused harm?
Speaker 4: Are you willing to hear how your behavior affects other
Speaker 4: people without immediately explaining why it happened? Those are questions
Speaker 4: that tell me, did you hear that h Those are
Speaker 4: questions that tell me far more than the diagnosis itself
Speaker 4: ever could. Unfortunately, some people use a diagnosis as an explanation,
Speaker 4: while others use it as an identity.
Speaker 2: Those are different things.
Speaker 4: An explanation helps you understand where to begin healing, and
Speaker 4: an identity can become a prison because every unhealthy behavior
Speaker 4: gets folded into that's just who I am. Once that happens,
Speaker 4: growth stops because change starts feeling like a threat to
Speaker 4: the very identity that you have now built around your suffering.
Speaker 2: This isn't unique to BPD.
Speaker 4: You can see it with anxiety depression, ADHDPTSD, addiction, and
Speaker 4: other countless struggles. Every diagnosis offers an explanation, and none
Speaker 4: of them remove responsibility. They simply tell us which mountain
Speaker 4: we're climbing. The same principle applies to trauma. Trauma explains
Speaker 4: why your nervous system reacts the way that it does.
Speaker 4: It explains why some people become hypervigilant, why others avoid
Speaker 4: conflict entirely, and why certain situations trigger responses that seem
Speaker 4: completely disproportionate from the outside. Trauma deserves compassion because it
Speaker 4: represents something that happened to us, often before we have
Speaker 4: the ability to protect ourselves. But compassion and responsibility are
Speaker 4: not opposites. One of the greatest mistakes we make is
Speaker 4: believing that because our reactions make sense, they therefore become
Speaker 4: someone else's responsibility to manage they don't. Healing begins the
Speaker 4: moment we stop expecting other people to carry emotions that
Speaker 4: only we can learn to regulate ourselves. It's one of
Speaker 4: the hardest transitions in recovery. It means that accepting that
Speaker 4: your pain may not be your fault, but your healing
Speaker 4: eventually becomes your responsibility. It's an unfair truth, but it's
Speaker 4: still true. Another area that creates tremendous confusion is the
Speaker 4: difference between splitting and lying. Many partners assume that they're
Speaker 4: being deliberately manipulated because their loved one is describing reality
Speaker 4: in a way that feels completely disconnected from what actually happened.
Speaker 4: Sometimes intentional manipulation does occur, but often something much more
Speaker 4: complicated is happening. I do believe that people can use
Speaker 4: their their borderline as a reason to abuse other people.
Speaker 3: I agree.
Speaker 4: You know, if you are really that unhealed and you
Speaker 4: are so worried about self and your own nervous system,
Speaker 4: the way that you manipulate and treat other people does
Speaker 4: become abusive, and I think that it becomes normal for them.
Speaker 5: Looking back on who I was with my borderline, the
Speaker 5: way that I acted towards certain people, that there were
Speaker 5: certain behavioral traits that I look back on that I did,
Speaker 5: and I view it as abusive. I would scream, I
Speaker 5: would yell, I would degrade, I would gaslight, very self centered,
Speaker 5: I had very high narcissistic traits.
Speaker 4: So there's an important distinction to make because it changes
Speaker 4: how we understand the behavior. It doesn't make the accusations accurate,
Speaker 4: and it certainly doesn't make the impact less painful for
Speaker 4: the receiving partner, But it reminds us that we're not
Speaker 4: always dealing with a calculated deception. Sometimes we're dealing with
Speaker 4: someone who has temporarily lost access to a balanced, integrated
Speaker 4: picture of the person standing in front of them. This
Speaker 4: also explains why logic often fails during intense emotional episodes.
Speaker 4: Partners frequently believe that they can just explain themselves clearly enough,
Speaker 4: they'll resolve the misunderstanding that if they offer evidence, they
Speaker 4: clarify timelines, they point to text message, they commonly explain
Speaker 4: what it meant, and none of it works, not because
Speaker 4: the explanation is wrong, but because the nervous system has
Speaker 4: already decided there's danger. Once the brain enters survival mode,
Speaker 4: higher reasoning begins shutting down. The emotional centers become louder,
Speaker 4: while the parts responsible for nuanced perspective and complex thinking
Speaker 4: becomes quieter. Guys, I want you to think about your
Speaker 4: own life. Someone startled you with a loud explode in
Speaker 4: your heart would race before you had time to analyze
Speaker 4: whether you were actually safe. Your body reacts first, and
Speaker 4: then your thinking catches up afterwards. Just walked in there
Speaker 4: and said something to carry and scared the fuck.
Speaker 2: Out of her.
Speaker 4: Thought she was gonna cry shot me. She did that
Speaker 4: to me like, I don't know what that's gonna do. Yeah,
Speaker 4: but she did it, and that was her body before
Speaker 4: her mind could process what happened, she was gonna judy
Speaker 4: chot me. That's essentially what's happened emotionally. The nervous system
Speaker 4: has already declared an emergency, So trying to reason someone
Speaker 4: back to calm is like trying to convince a smoke
Speaker 4: detector that there's no fire while it's sensing smoke. It
Speaker 4: doesn't excuse behavior. It explains why timing matters. Most productive
Speaker 4: conversations happen after the nervous system has returned to baseline,
Speaker 4: not what it's flooded with survival chemistry. We have told you, guys,
Speaker 4: over and over again on this podcast that you will
Speaker 4: never come to resolution and conflict. It does not work
Speaker 4: that way. You guys might end the conversation in conflict
Speaker 4: because you don't want to fucking fight anymore. But conflict
Speaker 4: resolution comes after the conflict is ended. You've both had
Speaker 4: time to think. When the nervous system calms down, it
Speaker 4: does the thing something else that's really discusses the role
Speaker 4: of the partner. Conversations about VPD often focus exclusively on
Speaker 4: the person carrying the diagnosis, but relationships always involve two
Speaker 4: nervous systems interacting with one another. Many partners unknowingly bring
Speaker 4: their own attachment wounds into these relationships. They mistake hypervigilance
Speaker 4: for love. They believe that if they're patient enough, understanding enough,
Speaker 4: or sacrificing enough, that they can finally create the safety
Speaker 4: that the other person never had. They become experts at
Speaker 4: anticipating moods, avoiding conflict, and minimizing their own needs. From
Speaker 4: the outside, that looks incredibly loving, and in reality it
Speaker 4: may be codependency. Codependency isn't simply caring deeply about another person.
Speaker 4: It's organizing your life around managing someone else's emotional world
Speaker 4: while you are neglecting your own. Your mood becomes dependent
Speaker 4: on whether they're okay. Your sense of peace depends on
Speaker 4: keeping them regulated. You stop asking what do I need
Speaker 4: and start asking how do I prevent the next explosion.
Speaker 4: One person's fear of abandonment fits perfectly with another person's
Speaker 4: fear of disappointing people. One desperately pursues closeness, the other
Speaker 4: desperately avoids conflict. It feels like compatibility because each person's
Speaker 4: wounds temporarily sue the others. Over time, the same wounds
Speaker 4: begin feeding each other. The anxious partner asks for more reassurance.
Speaker 4: The code dependent partner gives more reassurance. Then the anxiety returns,
Speaker 4: the reassurance increases. Neither person is actually healing, They're simply
Speaker 4: becoming more dependent on the pattern. That's why what initially
Speaker 4: feels like fate often becomes a trap. This is why
Speaker 4: boundaries become so important and why they're so frequently misunderstood.
Speaker 4: Many people think that a boundary is something that you
Speaker 4: can impose on another person.
Speaker 2: It's not.
Speaker 4: A boundary is something that you place around your own behavior.
Speaker 4: A threat says you better change. A boundary says he
Speaker 4: I will. Here's what I will do if discontinues. There's
Speaker 4: a profound difference between saying, if you ever yell at
Speaker 4: me again, I'm leaving you and saying, if this conversation
Speaker 4: becomes abuse, hi, I'm going to leave the room until
Speaker 4: we can both speak respectfully. The first tries to control
Speaker 4: another person's behavior, the second defines your own. For someone
Speaker 4: with untreated BPD, however, even healthy boundaries feel like abandonment.
Speaker 4: That's because limits are often interpreted through the lens of
Speaker 4: old attachment wounds rather than present reality. A request for
Speaker 4: space feels like rejection. A consequent feels like the withdrawal
Speaker 4: of love. That doesn't mean that boundaries are wrong. It
Speaker 4: means they may feel painful while still being necessary. Healthy
Speaker 4: relationships aren't built by avoiding discomfort. They're built by learning
Speaker 4: that discomfort isn't the same thing as abandonment. Attachment theory
Speaker 4: also helps explain why people respond so differently to these relationships.
Speaker 4: Someone with anxious attachment style often stays far longer than
Speaker 4: they should because emotional intensity feels familiar. Chaos becomes confused
Speaker 4: with passion. The constant cycle of rupture and repair creates
Speaker 4: a powerful emotional high that can be mistaken for deep love.
Speaker 4: The relationship feels significant precisely because it feels so consuming.
Speaker 4: This is that fucking, deeply toxic, flawed shit. Someone with
Speaker 4: more avoidant attachment styles may have the opposite challenge. They
Speaker 4: may leave at first sign of instability, sometimes before the
Speaker 4: other person has had genuine opportunity to demonstrate accountability and growth.
Speaker 4: Their instinct is to create distance rather than tolerate uncertainty.
Speaker 4: Neither attachment style is inherently healthier both their adaptations. One clings,
Speaker 4: one withdraws secure attachment learns to stay connected without abandoning itself.
Speaker 4: One perspective I find especially helpful comes from Alfred Adler.
Speaker 4: We talked about him on the live that we did
Speaker 4: earlier today. Adler believed that symptoms often serve a purpose,
Speaker 4: even if we're completely unaware of it. He called this
Speaker 4: our private logic, the internal story that explains why our
Speaker 4: behavior makes sense to us. From an Adlerian perspective, an
Speaker 4: outburst isn't anger, it's a strategy. An accusation isn't just criticism,
Speaker 4: it's a strategy. A threat isn't simply manipulation, It's a strategy.
Speaker 4: This becomes so the question becomes, what is this strategy
Speaker 4: trying to accomplish. Usually the answer isn't cruelty. It's safety, closeness, certainty,
Speaker 4: or it's the control in the face of overwhelming fear.
Speaker 4: Understanding that changes how we see the behavior without requiring
Speaker 4: us to accept it. We can have compassion for the
Speaker 4: goal while refusing the strategy. We can understand that someone
Speaker 4: is desperately trying to avoid abandonment while still refusing to
Speaker 4: accept screaming, threats, manipulation, or emotional abuse. And that's the
Speaker 4: balance we should be aiming for. Understanding without enabling compassion
Speaker 4: without self abandonment, and accountability without shame because healing doesn't
Speaker 4: happen when we deny our wounds, nor does it happen
Speaker 4: when we make other people responsible for them. Healing happens
Speaker 4: when we understand why, we develop the strategies we did,
Speaker 4: thank them for helping us survive, and then have the
Speaker 4: courage to replace them with healthier ones. That's true borderline
Speaker 4: person disorder, and it's true for every human being carrying
Speaker 4: wounds that they didn't ask for, but they're now responsible
Speaker 4: for healing.
Speaker 2: And that's my.
Speaker 3: Document, very good document. Husband.
Speaker 4: I think that it's important to recognize that people that
Speaker 4: have borderline personality disorder, though I don't think that most
Speaker 4: of them intend on being abusive, I think that they
Speaker 4: need to understand that the way that they conduct themselves
Speaker 4: most of the time actually.
Speaker 2: Is abusive to other people.
Speaker 4: And when you have untreated borderline personality disorder and you're
Speaker 4: not doing any of the therapy CBT, DBT, cognitive processing
Speaker 4: therapy schema, any of the things that you could be
Speaker 4: doing to start to learn new training, learn new behavioral patterns,
Speaker 4: to break cycles of triggers and trauma responses. The rain
Speaker 4: thing happened and I lost my train of thought. Damn,
Speaker 4: where was I chat somebody remind me of what the
Speaker 4: fuck I was talking about. It's completely gone. We'll be
Speaker 4: able to watch this back. Yeah, yeah, you'll just have
Speaker 4: to click on the link again. You were talking about
Speaker 4: unintentional being abusing, unintentional being abusing. I don't know where
Speaker 4: I was going with that thought, but I do believe
Speaker 4: that if you are unhealed and you are not doing
Speaker 4: anything to heal yourself, that you are actually abusive to
Speaker 4: other people. I do remember where I was going, but
Speaker 4: I don't remember the line of thought. The where I
Speaker 4: was going was that it is your responsibility to start
Speaker 4: doing the healing work for yourself because the people that
Speaker 4: are going to come into your life are going to
Speaker 4: leave scarred and fucked up because of your trauma. And
Speaker 4: it's not fair to the people that come into your
Speaker 4: life and attempt to love you for you to just
Speaker 4: be like, well, you know how my borderline is, or
Speaker 4: I have BPD, so this is just who I am
Speaker 4: and you have to accept me.
Speaker 3: This is what you signed up for, right, miss Bush?
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is not what I signed up for. I
Speaker 4: signed up for a healthy, loving relationship, and you're not
Speaker 4: doing anything to become loving or healthy.
Speaker 5: I was a psychotic bitch when I was unhinged with
Speaker 5: my borderline. I've heard people say that about me, and
Speaker 5: I am willing to acknowledge that of my past until
Speaker 5: you're willing to recognize that you, yourself, are a Tasmanian devil,
Speaker 5: leaving a trail of destruction behind you while thinking that
Speaker 5: you're protecting yourself while simultaneously abusing people. It's a mess,
Speaker 5: and there's a whole lot of lessons to be learned.
Speaker 5: There's a whole lot of self mastery. My borderline has
Speaker 5: become a superpower.
Speaker 2: Can you elaborate on that? How your borderline has become
Speaker 2: a superpower?
Speaker 5: My hypervigilance, We can start with that. My hypervigilance and
Speaker 5: always scanning rooms and looking for threats. I can now
Speaker 5: read people almost instantaneously, whether you're being emotional, you're having
Speaker 5: a good day, having a bad day. My abandonment is
Speaker 5: almost completely healed because I've recognized people are not meant
Speaker 5: to stay in my life forever. There is a higher
Speaker 5: level of emotional intelligence that I gained having to work
Speaker 5: through my abandonment and recognizing at the end of the day, yes,
Speaker 5: I have people who love me and people who will
Speaker 5: be here for me, but I'm going to experience death
Speaker 5: by myself.
Speaker 3: I could have people in the.
Speaker 5: Room with me, but at the end of the day,
Speaker 5: all of it's going to be with me.
Speaker 3: So people don't abandon me.
Speaker 5: They choose to do what's best in their life, and
Speaker 5: I just happen to be a casualty.
Speaker 3: Their life isn't about me.
Speaker 2: It's such as that in itself is a superpower.
Speaker 4: People get so hung up and they did this to
Speaker 4: me because, like we talked about earlier today and the
Speaker 4: other live, it's about being a villain or a victim,
Speaker 4: and you have to be one of them, and it's
Speaker 4: so much easier to make someone else the villain so
Speaker 4: that you can be the victim, so that you're not
Speaker 4: perceived in a bad light. When you realize that people
Speaker 4: are going to do what's best for them and you
Speaker 4: just accept that that is human nature, it changes almost
Speaker 4: every conversation. It's no longer about I can't believe they
Speaker 4: did this to me. This sucks and I'm hurting right now.
Speaker 4: That's a very fair statement. But they didn't do this
Speaker 4: to you. They did this for them, and you got
Speaker 4: splashed by it.
Speaker 5: Your egos thinking it's about you Yeah, yep. You will
Speaker 5: never be the center of someone else's universe.
Speaker 4: No. I think the most that we can hope for
Speaker 4: in life is that somebody will love us enough to
Speaker 4: make us like want to share the universe with them, right,
Speaker 4: you know, And that's one of those things that has
Speaker 4: to be constantly pushed, right, Like you can't just go
Speaker 4: one day, hey, we're going to be together for the
Speaker 4: rest of our lives, and that we're just going to
Speaker 4: be together and that's all there is to it, because
Speaker 4: it doesn't work right. There's a whole lot of work
Speaker 4: and a whole lot of obstacles that's going to have
Speaker 4: to come in. It's like a what do they call it?
Speaker 4: A spartan race? You know, some of this is going
Speaker 4: to be pretty easy for one of us and for
Speaker 4: the other one it's gonna be a fucking nightmare.
Speaker 2: But we have to choose to do the shit together. Like,
Speaker 2: it's a whole lot of work. Yeah, I don't really
Speaker 2: have anything else to get into.
Speaker 4: Somebody on Patreon asked if we would do a conversation
Speaker 4: about the control dramas and parenting.
Speaker 5: That sounds interesting, Yeah, should you should tag me in
Speaker 5: the discord and post that again?
Speaker 3: I won't remember it was.
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, it was posted on the actual Patreon page,
Speaker 4: not on a discord, but either way, I definitely think
Speaker 4: that that would be a good idea to sit down.
Speaker 4: We've done the control drama thing a lot. I don't
Speaker 4: remember where I did it, but I did something and
Speaker 4: tied it into young and psychology so that people could
Speaker 4: see the crossover and how it works from the Celestine
Speaker 4: prophecies control dramas and to actual young and psychology. And
Speaker 4: I think that that was, you know, a benefit for
Speaker 4: people to hear. But I do think that parents use
Speaker 4: the control dramas quite a bit with their kids, especially
Speaker 4: in forms of manipulation, because their young minds don't understand
Speaker 4: it yet. I also think that when you realize that
Speaker 4: that's happening, you realize where the childhood wounds come from. Yeah,
Speaker 4: because you're you're creating an unsafe nervous system in your children.
Speaker 4: We definitely should do that episode.
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, so.
Speaker 4: Many in chat said, what's the control drama? So there's
Speaker 4: a book called The Celestine Prophecy that came out a
Speaker 4: while ago, and it talks about energy transference between people.
Speaker 4: It's fiction, it's not a you know a real book,
Speaker 4: but they talk about the control dramas in that book,
Speaker 4: and the control dramas are the way that humans vie
Speaker 4: for energy, and the control dramas tie into YOUNGI and psychology.
Speaker 4: They just have different words for it, and it ties
Speaker 4: into kind of the shadow and there's a whole lot
Speaker 4: that gets into that, but it is the way that
Speaker 4: human beings vie for energy. Some people are interrogators, some
Speaker 4: are bullies, some are pity me, some are aloof There's
Speaker 4: different control dramas that do different things for people, and
Speaker 4: that's how they basically steal your energy. And you can
Speaker 4: see it when people come into the room and like,
Speaker 4: imagine you've got four people that you're friends with and
Speaker 4: you guys are all laughing, and then Debbie Downer walks
Speaker 4: into the room and the moment she walks in, the
Speaker 4: energy shifts and as soon as she starts talking, you
Speaker 4: can see it depleting energy from the people in the
Speaker 4: room and what was once a laughing, happy thing is
Speaker 4: now giving all of their energy to Debbie Downer. And
Speaker 4: she walked in feeling depleted, and she's leaving high and
Speaker 4: everybody else is like, what the fuck just happened? Like
Speaker 4: we were feeling so good a minute ago. Yeah, somebody
Speaker 4: said you have her must read list of books.
Speaker 2: We do.
Speaker 4: There's a downloadable list on the website. Guys, if you
Speaker 4: enjoy this content, please give it a light, give a share,
Speaker 4: send it to people that you think need to hear it.
Speaker 4: We are trying to continue to build and grow this channel.
Speaker 4: If you want access to an exclusive community of people
Speaker 4: who are trying to heal and go through their own
Speaker 4: healing journey, I highly recommend that you go to patreon
Speaker 4: dot com, forward slash to be Better and check it out.
Speaker 4: We have mentor groups in there, men and women's public scroups.
Speaker 4: We have private coaching. There's a whole lot of things
Speaker 4: that we do in the Patreon that you're missing if
Speaker 4: you're not a part of and it really helps support
Speaker 4: the channel.
Speaker 2: So do you have anything you want to add?
Speaker 4: Buttemus Beautymus Maximus, Nope, I think you covered it all
Speaker 4: all right. She's gonna be doing some of these documents
Speaker 4: on her own, and I'm gonna sit and be her
Speaker 4: beautiful sidekick. I'll make sure I do my hair that
Speaker 4: day just so that you guys, can you know, get
Speaker 4: the beautemous version of me and we will see you
Speaker 4: guys on the next one.
Speaker 2: Hi, guys,