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<v Speaker 1>When I mentioned political violence, I just saw him on

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<v Speaker 1>the zoom, look like like a dodger. Here's his name

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<v Speaker 1>or a particular or the owner's whistle. Yes, let me

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<v Speaker 1>assert my family.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the only thing we have to finish.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's the Ricchet Podcast with Stephen Hayward and Charles C. W. Cook.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm James Lylyx. The day we're going to talk to

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<v Speaker 1>Noah Rothman about well what else the war, But there's more,

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<v Speaker 1>so let's absolve the podcast.

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<v Speaker 3>Their navy is gone, twenty four ships in three days.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a lot of ships. Their anti aircraft weapons are gone,

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<v Speaker 3>all of their airplanes are gone, the communications are gone,

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<v Speaker 3>missiles are gun launches are gone.

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<v Speaker 4>Other than that, they're doing quite well.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome everybody. This is the Ricochet Podcast, number seven hundred

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<v Speaker 1>and eighty. I'm James Lylyx and I'm joined, of course

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<v Speaker 1>by even Hayward in California or somewhere else in the world,

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<v Speaker 1>and Charles C. Cook not on the scepter dial but

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<v Speaker 1>in Florida. Gentlemen, to welcome, Hello, good morning. There were

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<v Speaker 1>other understated almost English there. Hello Hello from from from Charlie.

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<v Speaker 1>And so since you are indeed from the from Blightie.

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<v Speaker 1>We have to talk about one of the most consequential

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<v Speaker 1>issues of the week, and I'm not kidding Britain's decision

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<v Speaker 1>to scrap all of the human beings from their money

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<v Speaker 1>and go to important British things like the British Tree,

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<v Speaker 1>which I think is the large, and badgers and and

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<v Speaker 1>and likewise, and it's it's causing something of a of

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<v Speaker 1>a tempest in a teapot. It goes with abolishing jury

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<v Speaker 1>trials for most people, and getting rid of hereditary lords

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<v Speaker 1>and the rest of it. All of a sudden, these

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<v Speaker 1>traditions stripped away. But there's something about getting rid of

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<v Speaker 1>Churchill and replacing him with a badger that has struck

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<v Speaker 1>a nerve in what seems to be a small, a

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<v Speaker 1>dying reflex reaction British culture. So you wrote about this,

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<v Speaker 1>I expect and tell us what do you think of it?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I did write about this, You're right. What do

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<v Speaker 2>I think about it? I think that it is a

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<v Speaker 2>sign of chronic under confidence and the rejection of national

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<v Speaker 2>identity is what I think.

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<v Speaker 4>I think that if you look back at.

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<v Speaker 2>The history of the British banknote, you will find all

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<v Speaker 2>manner of impressive people having been depicted thereon you will

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<v Speaker 2>see Shakespeare and Jane Austin and Florence Nightingale and James

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<v Speaker 2>Watt and Winston Churchill and Admiral Nelson and the Duke

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<v Speaker 2>of Wellington and so forth, and those people I think

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<v Speaker 2>are what people think about when they think of Britain,

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<v Speaker 2>far more than.

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<v Speaker 4>Say a hedgehog.

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<v Speaker 2>I have nothing in particular against the wildlife of Great Britain,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's not what Britain's known for, is it, And

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<v Speaker 2>it's not particularly interesting relative to other countries. Every country

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<v Speaker 2>has wildlife, but not every country has Shakespeare. So if

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<v Speaker 2>they had said, do you know, we're a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>monomaniacal in our money art, and so we're gonna rotate

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<v Speaker 2>Britain's heroes, I think that would have been defensible.

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<v Speaker 4>But they didn't do that. What they said is it

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<v Speaker 4>is overdue.

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<v Speaker 2>What a word that we take those heroes, and I

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<v Speaker 2>include Jane Austin, Shakespeare and James Watt in that category.

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<v Speaker 2>We're going to take them off the money completely and

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<v Speaker 2>replace them with no other people. And the reason for

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<v Speaker 2>this seems quite to me, and that is that animals

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<v Speaker 2>are uncontroversial. Animals are an abstraction. I know people like

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<v Speaker 2>their own dog, but when you see a badger, you

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<v Speaker 2>don't say, oh it's terry.

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<v Speaker 4>You say it's just a badger.

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<v Speaker 2>But with a person, you have to think about that

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<v Speaker 2>person as a sinful human, an imperfect human, somebody who

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<v Speaker 2>may have had some views of his era that we

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<v Speaker 2>don't like today.

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<v Speaker 4>And I just don't think the British.

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<v Speaker 2>At the moment are courageous or sophisticated or adult enough

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<v Speaker 2>to do that. And so the moment that someone says, well,

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<v Speaker 2>Florence Nightiger probably had some really weird views about then

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<v Speaker 2>they say, oh, we took her off the money because

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<v Speaker 2>someone has to. No, that's not what you do. You say, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>but that's not why we know her. And I'll finished

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<v Speaker 2>with this. About ten years ago there was this campaign

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<v Speaker 2>to get Nelson's column removed from Trafalgar Square, and these

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<v Speaker 2>things have.

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<v Speaker 4>Been there so long they are literally.

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<v Speaker 2>Named after Admiral Nelson and his most famous moment. And

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<v Speaker 2>the argument was that Nelson had some pretty horrible views

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<v Speaker 2>about slavery, which he actually did for a short period

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<v Speaker 2>of time. And my rejoinder, which I wrote up, was yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>but that's not why he's famous. I don't think it's

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<v Speaker 2>particularly problematic if outside of a courthouse has happened. Here

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<v Speaker 2>in Jacksonville a few years ago, a statue of Alexander

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<v Speaker 2>Stevens is removed because Alexander Stephens's whole thing, the thing

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<v Speaker 2>for which he is known and famous, is black people

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<v Speaker 2>aren't equal and can't be, and the United States should,

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<v Speaker 2>as its cornerstone institution, celebrate slavery. That's why his name

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<v Speaker 2>is in the books. But that's not true of Nelson,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's not true of any of the people on

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<v Speaker 2>the money. Maybe Winston Churchill had a few quirks he did.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe he had some views on race, although he was

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<v Speaker 2>actually pretty progressive for his time, to be honest. But

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<v Speaker 2>maybe he had some views on race that today we

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<v Speaker 2>might go at. But that's not why he's known. He's

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<v Speaker 2>known for saving the world. So I think this is insane,

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<v Speaker 2>But I think it is very sad because I think

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<v Speaker 2>what Britain is essentially said is that it wishes to

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<v Speaker 2>denude itself of all that makes it Britain and instead

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<v Speaker 2>point to things that don't make it Britain but just

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<v Speaker 2>happened to be there.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, So I do have this prediction for you Charlie,

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<v Speaker 5>which is from the manager of Animals.

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<v Speaker 6>That may pick from.

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<v Speaker 5>I have a hunch they will omit the bulldog for

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<v Speaker 5>the obvious reason, right, that's always a symbol. Well it

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<v Speaker 5>might remind people of Churchill if you put a bulldog

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<v Speaker 5>on the pound note.

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<v Speaker 3>Right.

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<v Speaker 6>And you know a lot of comments on Twitter has been.

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<v Speaker 5>Boy, the British ruling class really hates the country these days.

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<v Speaker 5>And I think I'm increasingly believing that may be literally true.

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<v Speaker 6>But I also think this is the logical next step for.

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<v Speaker 5>The radical egalitarianism that you know, intellectual circles has started with,

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<v Speaker 5>you know, in history many decades ago of rejecting the

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<v Speaker 5>Great Man theory of history and you know, the rise

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<v Speaker 5>of social history, which is, you know, just a derivative

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<v Speaker 5>of Marxism what drives history or all the social forces

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<v Speaker 5>and materialism and not Napoleon or de gaul or Churchill

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<v Speaker 5>or Franklin Roosevelt.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 6>They hate that because that.

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<v Speaker 5>Those examples of human excellence, whether you agree or disagree

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<v Speaker 5>with their acts, are an implicit rebuke to the sort

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<v Speaker 5>of flattening gallitarianism of the radical left for decades now.

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<v Speaker 5>So it's going to come to America sooner or later.

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<v Speaker 5>I can't believe we still have some of the people

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<v Speaker 5>we do. I mean, it was Grant still on the

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<v Speaker 5>fifty dollars bill. I think I should look.

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<v Speaker 6>But it's the Jefferson's on the two dollar bill.

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<v Speaker 5>My goodness, he was the prime offender and slavery and

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<v Speaker 5>you know, raped as slaves and all the other stuff.

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<v Speaker 5>You hear that that's the most important things about Jefferson.

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<v Speaker 5>Now we're told right, so it'll it'll come here, I think,

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<v Speaker 5>or there'll be a motion for it, at least.

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<v Speaker 2>I saw some statistic the other day that said that

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<v Speaker 2>eighty five percent or something of all the two dollar

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<v Speaker 2>bills are in strip clubs.

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<v Speaker 4>Poor Jefferson.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, when I saw this story, I also read elsewhere

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<v Speaker 1>that one of the reasons that they were doing this

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<v Speaker 1>was to avoid giving offense. They didn't specify that, but

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<v Speaker 1>it made you think that perhaps the depiction of the

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<v Speaker 1>human form might be the human face the visage might

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<v Speaker 1>be offensive to some people, that they're anticipating that objection

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<v Speaker 1>in the future, to which you want to say to people, look,

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<v Speaker 1>this is British culture, pound sand or quid sand or

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<v Speaker 1>whatever you wish, that this is who we are and

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<v Speaker 1>that we are going to continue to do this. But

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<v Speaker 1>when Charlie mentioned Tofalgar Square, yes, I mean it's taking

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<v Speaker 1>down Nelson's column is not something I have in the cards,

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<v Speaker 1>but I wouldn't be surprised because there is in that

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<v Speaker 1>space a famous empty plinth I think it's called the

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<v Speaker 1>fourth plinth, that tack down the corners of the square.

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<v Speaker 1>One of them is empty, and it's constantly being used

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<v Speaker 1>for new art. And the new art is generally meretricious, scolding,

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<v Speaker 1>ugly celebrating any sort of current days zeroism, and it's

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<v Speaker 1>never up to snuff with the rest of the stuff

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<v Speaker 1>on the corners, which is classical and British and full

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<v Speaker 1>of lions and you know, all the rest of the

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<v Speaker 1>things that people expect out of their British statuary. And

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<v Speaker 1>so the whole culture seems to be pushed towards being

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<v Speaker 1>an empty plinth on which the leaders can PLoP whatever

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<v Speaker 1>they want at the moment in order to rewrite the

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<v Speaker 1>past and usher us into the glorious new future. And

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<v Speaker 1>what I don't understand is the roots of I don't

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<v Speaker 1>get why they would be so so uncomfortable with their

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<v Speaker 1>own culture that they find the need time and again

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<v Speaker 1>to make these conspicuous public efforts to undo it. If

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<v Speaker 1>they wished, a lot could be accomplished on the labor

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<v Speaker 1>and the leftist agenda without these things that stand out,

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<v Speaker 1>but like big red, flaring lit flags that they get

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<v Speaker 1>people's backup. But as we've talked from time to time

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<v Speaker 1>to time, does it matter really if people's backs are

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<v Speaker 1>gotten up in how many backs actually are there gotten up?

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<v Speaker 1>I know a fellow, you know, one of my friends

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<v Speaker 1>in England as as British as you can get. He

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<v Speaker 1>bought Tony Hancock's hat from an old television show that

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<v Speaker 1>has a glass case. He has a British minor a

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<v Speaker 1>card in his driveway to the core. But I can't

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<v Speaker 1>see them actually doing anything about this or getting a

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<v Speaker 1>bit upset about it, because what is one to do.

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<v Speaker 1>Life in the village goes on, and a piece with

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<v Speaker 1>what we saw about their participation in the war with Ron,

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<v Speaker 1>that the whole British spine, the whole British glory of

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<v Speaker 1>the Navy, it just seems to have evaporated. The special

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<v Speaker 1>relationship is gone, and I again despair. But again I'm

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<v Speaker 1>here and it's not my country, and perhaps I should

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<v Speaker 1>just divest myself of those emotional feelings. Huh.

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<v Speaker 5>Well, can I give listeners a book recommendation on this?

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<v Speaker 5>You know, Roger Scrutin had that great phrase about how

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<v Speaker 5>we live at a time with a dominant culture of repudiation.

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<v Speaker 5>And one of my favorite books about the whole European

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<v Speaker 5>wider scene, I mean, Douglas Murray's written about this, but

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<v Speaker 5>as an older book from ten to fifteen years ago,

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<v Speaker 5>is The Tyranny of Guilt. I love the title Tyranny

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<v Speaker 5>by a French writer named Pascal Bruckner, and I've met

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<v Speaker 5>this guy a couple of times. What I like about

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<v Speaker 5>him is he was one of those radical students on

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<v Speaker 5>the barricades in Paris in May of sixty eight, which

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<v Speaker 5>is still you know, a big Americans don't really appreciate this,

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<v Speaker 5>how big a deal that was in France. Still today

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<v Speaker 5>is a factor in French politics in ways that I

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<v Speaker 5>think are beyond most Americans to know. And he his

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<v Speaker 5>book is a terrific attack on the insidiousness of the

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<v Speaker 5>self imposed guilt of the European culture today. And he's

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<v Speaker 5>still very much a social democrat and as ordinary political economy,

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<v Speaker 5>you might say so anyway, it's and he's a splendid

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<v Speaker 5>writer if you like that French style that they often have.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think that's what's driving a Charnally guilt or

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<v Speaker 1>is it just this sort of this late sixties eternal

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<v Speaker 1>desire to repudiate the past but to make this glorious.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I think there's a lot that's driving it. I think

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<v Speaker 2>part of it is leftism, which Steve says doesn't like

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<v Speaker 2>the great man theory and therefore doesn't like great men.

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<v Speaker 2>I think some of it's immigration. The British have persuaded

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<v Speaker 2>themselves as of some in this country, but it's less

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<v Speaker 2>prevalent that the way you welcome.

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<v Speaker 4>Immigrants is to.

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<v Speaker 2>Remove your own culture, which is weird given that the

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<v Speaker 2>immigrants largely move.

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<v Speaker 4>To places because of that culture.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a really strange reaction to say, welcome to Britain,

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<v Speaker 2>which you want to be in, rather than Pakistan.

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<v Speaker 4>Whatever. We'll get rid of it, don't worry.

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<v Speaker 2>Then there's the stupid racial bean counting which we have

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<v Speaker 2>here as well. All those people I mentioned earlier, they're

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<v Speaker 2>rather white, aren't they. Well, yes, that's what you'll get

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<v Speaker 2>on an island that is still ninety percent white and

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<v Speaker 2>twenty years ago is ninety five percent white, and two

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<v Speaker 2>hundred years ago was one hundred percent white.

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<v Speaker 4>If you're going to.

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<v Speaker 2>To a memorial for great victorians, probably aren't going to

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<v Speaker 2>be too many Hispanics among them in London. And then

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<v Speaker 2>there's the final part of it, which is that the

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<v Speaker 2>British elites don't actually like Britain very much. I never

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<v Speaker 2>really have, and they are finally getting their revenge. What

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<v Speaker 2>really alarmed me, though, James, was that the polling on

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<v Speaker 2>this seemed to be confirmatory. I saw that sixty percent

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<v Speaker 2>to thirty two of British people who were asked and

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know what the question said, said that they

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<v Speaker 2>would rather have animals on the money than people. So

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<v Speaker 2>I can't quite blame this on, you know, the labor

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<v Speaker 2>government or Islington or what you will. This does seem

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<v Speaker 2>to be a general cultural malaise.

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<v Speaker 1>Well then they'll get their money with the Budgies on it.

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<v Speaker 1>All I can say is this it's probably continuation of

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<v Speaker 1>an insidious planned to get rid of money or together

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<v Speaker 1>and its institute of digital currency. Because these days I

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<v Speaker 1>hate British money. It's plastic, it doesn't fold right, it

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<v Speaker 1>slips around in your pocket. I don't like it. And

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<v Speaker 1>if they make it so esthetically unpleasing and unpleasing to

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<v Speaker 1>in a tactile fashion, then people will just say, oh, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>Heaven's sakes, bring on that digital currency. Or they will

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<v Speaker 1>say bring on noelh Rothman, Right, that's what I'm gonna do.

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<v Speaker 1>Noah Senior writer a National Review where he writes about

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<v Speaker 1>well everything, especially you know, foreign affairs and stuff we

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<v Speaker 1>have going on from time to time. Is the author

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<v Speaker 1>of Unjust, The Rise of the New Puritans and the

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<v Speaker 1>upcoming Blood and Progress a century of left wing violence.

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<v Speaker 1>And we'll talk about that, but first welcome Noah.

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<v Speaker 7>Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 1>James, all right, a recent piece from you, what's gone

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<v Speaker 1>right in the Iran War if you listen to the press,

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<v Speaker 1>of course, it's just been an excuse for wasting money

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<v Speaker 1>on lobster lobster gate, lobster gate being the story of

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<v Speaker 1>the day, not the targeted assassination of the guys are

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<v Speaker 1>doing checkpoints.

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<v Speaker 8>But see, there does seem to be an assumption abroad

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<v Speaker 8>that Pete hag Seth himself can consume seven million dollars

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<v Speaker 8>worth of lobster and steak. I accept the challenge. If

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<v Speaker 8>that is the premise.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh no, he's been splashing around a giant Scrooge McDuck

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<v Speaker 1>vault that is filled to the brim with steak and

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<v Speaker 1>lobster tails. So let's start with what's going right. We

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<v Speaker 1>were told a couple of days ago that there's something

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<v Speaker 1>new on route that it was pager like in its

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<v Speaker 1>depth and its scope, and its surprise was that the

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<v Speaker 1>ability that we have, or Israel has, or both seems

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<v Speaker 1>to be to use drones to track individual guys where

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<v Speaker 1>they live, hit their checkpoints, get them as they're taking

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<v Speaker 1>out the garbage. What's the most recent thing that's gone right.

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<v Speaker 8>Let's say, well, I have seen those reports, and I'm

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<v Speaker 8>not entirely sure if those are happening now or we're

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<v Speaker 8>only just getting video of them happening recently. The theater

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<v Speaker 8>is opaque, and there's we have to be humble about

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<v Speaker 8>what we can assess in real time. However, we'll step

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<v Speaker 8>back a little bit and take a look at this

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<v Speaker 8>campaign on its twelfth day, which is where we're at

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<v Speaker 8>right now. I've been following this for the better part

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<v Speaker 8>of twenty five years. We've been war gaming scenarios with

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<v Speaker 8>the all out regime change war with Iran for the

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<v Speaker 8>better part of three decades, and all of those scenarios

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<v Speaker 8>were dire. The notion being that Iran would activate its

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<v Speaker 8>sleeper cell terrorist organizations HESBLA or otherwise in Latin America,

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<v Speaker 8>Europe and North America not an idle threat. We consistently

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<v Speaker 8>and regularly arrest has below linked operatives, charged them and

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<v Speaker 8>imprisoned them for acting on orders from Iran to execute

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<v Speaker 8>terrorist attacks inside the United States or target American civil

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<v Speaker 8>heacivic leaders, civil servants, and even the President himself with murder.

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<v Speaker 8>Those were expected to execute dramatic attacks on soft targets,

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<v Speaker 8>kill a lot of civilians in the process, and frustrate

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<v Speaker 8>our activities domestically. Likewise, we were expecting dramatics cyber attacks

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<v Speaker 8>on commercial ventures, in particular, making financial transactions difficult, frustrating

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<v Speaker 8>operations for commercial ventures as well as government ventures. And

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<v Speaker 8>we were expecting that the Iranian regime would mine the

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<v Speaker 8>Strait of Hermus. The Straight of Hermus is presently closed

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<v Speaker 8>to traffic quote unquote, but it's not because of an

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<v Speaker 8>abundance of mines in the strait. The threat of ballistic missiles,

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<v Speaker 8>short range ballistic missiles, or even fast attack boats that

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<v Speaker 8>would swarm a boat and try to sink it. That

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<v Speaker 8>was another scenario that was a very much a live

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<v Speaker 8>prospect in these wargames taking out a US warship. That way,

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<v Speaker 8>the strait is not closed because of that. The strait

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<v Speaker 8>is closed because of a financial artifact. Insurance insurance makes

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<v Speaker 8>it too difficult for these ships to cross the strait.

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<v Speaker 8>That is much easier to resolve than it would be

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<v Speaker 8>if we were dealing with a thoroughly mined straight And

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<v Speaker 8>of course, a regime change war was forecast to require

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<v Speaker 8>upwards of a million US combat troops, not even support troops.

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<v Speaker 8>Combat troops of Iranian cities were expected to be in

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<v Speaker 8>rubble a million casualties on all sides of this conflict,

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<v Speaker 8>at least before combat operations were over, after which you

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<v Speaker 8>couldn't be sure that the regime itself would survived. Some

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<v Speaker 8>rump regime might have survived, and there's probably likely to

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<v Speaker 8>be pockets of instability and ungoverned areas inside the Iranian

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<v Speaker 8>land mass which would incubate transnational Islamis terrorist groups. So

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<v Speaker 8>that's the baseline from which we're starting and on twelve day,

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<v Speaker 8>day twelve of this war, you don't see anything like

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<v Speaker 8>those kind of outcomes. In fact, we've achieved air superiority,

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<v Speaker 8>if not supremacy. We're standing away from these exquisite standoff munitions,

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<v Speaker 8>you know, rockets, long range rockets in favor of because

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<v Speaker 8>we have command of the skis in favor of gravity.

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<v Speaker 8>Bombs which are fitted with jay dams make them precision

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<v Speaker 8>guided bombs. They're a lot more abundant, a lot less expensive,

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<v Speaker 8>and to make it easier to achieve our objectives. The

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<v Speaker 8>Iranian Navy is fodder now for artificial reefs at the

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<v Speaker 8>bottom of the Persian Gulf. All of their Solomoni class

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<v Speaker 8>ships are dead. Their fleet of mine laying boats is

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<v Speaker 8>largely in ruins. We've struck ten of their eighteen airfields

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<v Speaker 8>when last I checked. Their ballistic missile capabilities are down

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<v Speaker 8>about ninety percent. Their missile launchers are down sixty percent.

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<v Speaker 8>We're loitering over these missile cities where these missiles are entombed,

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<v Speaker 8>and we're either striking the entrances or if we monitor

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<v Speaker 8>and see activity, we strike them, rendering these missile silos

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<v Speaker 8>inoperable until such time as a massive penetrating ordinance hits them,

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<v Speaker 8>digs two hundred feet down and blows them up. We

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<v Speaker 8>have incredible command of the battle space. What everybody's concerned

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<v Speaker 8>about is what happens with these asymmetric attacks moving forward.

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<v Speaker 8>Iranian drone capabilities are not neutralized. And because there was

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<v Speaker 8>some vestigial hostility in the Pentagon to Voladimir Zelensky in Kiev,

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<v Speaker 8>we did not purchase and should have these really cheap

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<v Speaker 8>interceptor drones that they developed in Key, which would have

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<v Speaker 8>helped us take down these Shaheeds. But yesterday they managed

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<v Speaker 8>to launch all of thirty nine Shaheed drones and get

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<v Speaker 8>through our American air defenses and layered air defenses around

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<v Speaker 8>the Gulf.

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<v Speaker 7>Now that's not nothing.

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<v Speaker 8>It hits real targets, it hits infrastructure, and it creates

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<v Speaker 8>big headaches the Gulf. But we're not talking about this

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<v Speaker 8>massive onslaught. These are headaches, you know. And we just

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<v Speaker 8>see these videos and they look really devastating and dramatic,

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<v Speaker 8>but they are deal with the ball and they're nothing

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<v Speaker 8>even remotely light what we expected. The question is always

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<v Speaker 8>compared to what and compared to what in this campaign

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<v Speaker 8>was a devastating conflict that would really chase in both

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<v Speaker 8>sides of the equation and just not what we're seeing.

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<v Speaker 5>So no, let me jump in here and let's tick

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<v Speaker 5>off a few of these factors individually. I'm a little surprised,

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<v Speaker 5>and there's reasons to think that maybe Trump and his

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<v Speaker 5>people hadn't fought the matter through my first data point

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<v Speaker 5>on that Trump reversing course on releases from strategic Petroleum

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<v Speaker 5>reserve and certain other things. I'm a little surprised that

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<v Speaker 5>we didn't have a more forward strategy on the potential

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<v Speaker 5>closure of the Straits of more news.

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<v Speaker 6>You mentioned mining. I'm thinking, is I'm so old.

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<v Speaker 5>I remember nineteen eighty seven when Iran tried to close

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<v Speaker 5>the straits with mine They had I guess to be

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<v Speaker 5>a fifty thousand minds then, and we, along with our

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<v Speaker 5>British partners, who then had a navy, very effectively squashed that.

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<v Speaker 5>And you know that's back when they you know, we

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<v Speaker 5>did have a ship hit by an Irocky missile by mistake, right, and.

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<v Speaker 6>We shot down and running an airliner by mistake, so

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<v Speaker 6>you know, flog of war. That's sort of very tiny

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<v Speaker 6>conflict compared with now.

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<v Speaker 5>But I'm a little surprised that there isn't more capacity

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<v Speaker 5>to stop Iran from harassing the Strait.

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<v Speaker 8>Yeah, so there is military capacity. We have contingencies developed

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<v Speaker 8>over the course of decades, as you said, and executed

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<v Speaker 8>them forty years ago in the effort to reopen the strait.

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<v Speaker 8>We know what Iran's plan is and how they execute that,

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<v Speaker 8>and we've sought to interdict that and had relative success.

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<v Speaker 8>It's my understanding, and I could be wrong, because again,

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<v Speaker 8>the battlefield isn't opaque, and we only know what we

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<v Speaker 8>know and what people are telling us. But it doesn't

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<v Speaker 8>seem to me from what I'm gleaning that the strait

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<v Speaker 8>is closed because it is mined because Iranian traffic is

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<v Speaker 8>transitting the straight.

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<v Speaker 7>It's not closed.

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<v Speaker 8>Because of the threat from short range ballistic missiles or

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<v Speaker 8>swamp or boat swarms are overwhelming. It is a financial issue.

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<v Speaker 8>And listen, the president without an Act of Congress, seems

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<v Speaker 8>to be able to muster about twenty billion dollars. You

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<v Speaker 8>need about four hundred billion dollars, and the president can't

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<v Speaker 8>do it himself. But you mean to tell me that

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<v Speaker 8>we can't. We can't just scrounge up four hundred billion

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<v Speaker 8>dollars to reopen this key waterway.

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<v Speaker 7>I don't believe it.

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<v Speaker 8>This is a resolvable problem, much more easily resolvable than

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<v Speaker 8>a thoroughly mined straight would be.

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<v Speaker 7>And even then you have the capacity to clear those mines.

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<v Speaker 5>Well, I'm sure you can find four hundred billion dollars

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<v Speaker 5>worth a new terraf for two.

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<v Speaker 6>But don't leave this day.

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<v Speaker 7>It is a global problem. It should be a global issue.

421
00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:47.200
<v Speaker 5>Well, I mean, well, all right, not to dilate this

422
00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:49.200
<v Speaker 5>too much, I do think that one of the issues

423
00:22:49.240 --> 00:22:51.000
<v Speaker 5>is is the crew on a lot of these ships say, hey,

424
00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:54.440
<v Speaker 5>wait a minute, we're not soldiers. Uh and okay, And

425
00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:56.200
<v Speaker 5>I think there have been a couple of ships hit

426
00:22:56.880 --> 00:22:57.920
<v Speaker 5>with something, you know, drone.

427
00:22:58.000 --> 00:22:59.480
<v Speaker 6>I don't know, So I don't know.

428
00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:00.599
<v Speaker 5>You can't.

429
00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:01.759
<v Speaker 6>I can't tell anything.

430
00:23:01.480 --> 00:23:03.720
<v Speaker 5>From afar, right, I just assume that ninety percent of

431
00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:07.680
<v Speaker 5>what I read on social media is wrong, fake, poorly

432
00:23:07.720 --> 00:23:08.640
<v Speaker 5>sourced and so forth.

433
00:23:08.680 --> 00:23:10.920
<v Speaker 7>I just can't And.

434
00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:13.039
<v Speaker 5>Even the mainstream media, I think, really doesn't know what's

435
00:23:13.079 --> 00:23:13.480
<v Speaker 5>going on.

436
00:23:13.799 --> 00:23:17.079
<v Speaker 6>But the next question is, is I've heard vaguely of

437
00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:18.000
<v Speaker 6>some of the war games.

438
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:19.839
<v Speaker 5>Some of my old pals at AEI used to run

439
00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:24.279
<v Speaker 5>those every year, and I don't recall, and maybe I

440
00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:27.039
<v Speaker 5>just didn't pay attention that a complete regime change war

441
00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:28.880
<v Speaker 5>would take up to a million soldiers. I think maybe

442
00:23:28.880 --> 00:23:31.400
<v Speaker 5>I did once here that twenty years ago. And so

443
00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:35.200
<v Speaker 5>that raises the question, and this has been since day one.

444
00:23:35.319 --> 00:23:38.759
<v Speaker 5>Can you accomplish our war aims or a neutralization of

445
00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:42.200
<v Speaker 5>Iran with air power alone? People say it's never been done,

446
00:23:42.200 --> 00:23:44.519
<v Speaker 5>and I say, well, wait a minute. We did finally

447
00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:48.640
<v Speaker 5>get Melosovich and Serbia to call off their war in

448
00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:51.319
<v Speaker 5>a good scos of oth almost thirty years ago. That

449
00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:55.319
<v Speaker 5>did take seventy one days of bombing, though, right what's

450
00:23:55.359 --> 00:23:56.559
<v Speaker 5>the answer to that question? Noah?

451
00:23:56.559 --> 00:23:56.599
<v Speaker 8>What?

452
00:23:56.680 --> 00:23:57.640
<v Speaker 5>What's your opinion is?

453
00:23:58.039 --> 00:23:58.880
<v Speaker 6>What are we gonna have to do?

454
00:23:58.920 --> 00:24:00.759
<v Speaker 5>Are we going to have to contemplay some boots on

455
00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:04.359
<v Speaker 5>the ground and selective ways or selected places, or you

456
00:24:04.359 --> 00:24:05.000
<v Speaker 5>think we need to.

457
00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:06.160
<v Speaker 6>Stay the course with the bombing.

458
00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:08.119
<v Speaker 5>And then finally, I'd like you to say something about

459
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:10.039
<v Speaker 5>what should Trump be saying and doing, because right now

460
00:24:10.039 --> 00:24:11.559
<v Speaker 5>he's all over the map, a.

461
00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:15.599
<v Speaker 8>Lot of questions, some epistemic humility on my part. I

462
00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:18.000
<v Speaker 8>don't know what it would take to collapse this regime.

463
00:24:18.039 --> 00:24:21.400
<v Speaker 8>Should say that at the outset, Kosovo is a good model,

464
00:24:21.400 --> 00:24:24.680
<v Speaker 8>except we've we've probably performed from the air roughly forty

465
00:24:24.759 --> 00:24:27.119
<v Speaker 8>Kosovo's in terms of the ordinance that's been dropped over

466
00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:30.720
<v Speaker 8>the course of this thing devastating, and we can only

467
00:24:30.799 --> 00:24:33.799
<v Speaker 8>you know, we're focusing on the western half of Iran

468
00:24:34.279 --> 00:24:36.799
<v Speaker 8>because it's harder to access the eastern half now that

469
00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:39.240
<v Speaker 8>we no longer have Afghanistan as a base of operations.

470
00:24:40.839 --> 00:24:44.359
<v Speaker 8>But the prospect of introducing ground forces to say, seize

471
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:48.599
<v Speaker 8>Krg Island, which is the primary area that Iran exports

472
00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:51.079
<v Speaker 8>oil from, is not off the table. The notion that

473
00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:53.440
<v Speaker 8>we would see is bonder Abbas, which is, you know,

474
00:24:53.519 --> 00:24:58.839
<v Speaker 8>opposite the straight that's not off the table, although I

475
00:24:58.880 --> 00:25:01.720
<v Speaker 8>don't necessarily think that's option that the President wants to pursue,

476
00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:04.640
<v Speaker 8>and it's probably going to be a last resort. Nevertheless,

477
00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:07.279
<v Speaker 8>it would finally throttle the revenue stream that the URGC

478
00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:09.720
<v Speaker 8>gets from the sale of Iranian oil, and the URGC

479
00:25:09.880 --> 00:25:12.119
<v Speaker 8>is the primary beneficiary of the sale of Iranian oil.

480
00:25:12.200 --> 00:25:15.319
<v Speaker 8>The Iranian people don't see almost dollar one from those

481
00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:19.960
<v Speaker 8>from those revenues. The question I forgot the second question.

482
00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:21.279
<v Speaker 8>I can go right to what Trump should say, but

483
00:25:21.319 --> 00:25:22.240
<v Speaker 8>what was the second question?

484
00:25:22.519 --> 00:25:25.359
<v Speaker 5>Well, it's uh, well, what do you think it could

485
00:25:25.359 --> 00:25:26.319
<v Speaker 5>be the end game here?

486
00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:28.640
<v Speaker 8>Oh, how to collapse a regime from the air. Yeah,

487
00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:30.599
<v Speaker 8>there's very few good models for that. I mean you

488
00:25:30.599 --> 00:25:35.400
<v Speaker 8>could say Libya sort of, but that's a fraught comparison, right,

489
00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:38.240
<v Speaker 8>And you need a ground force. You need a ground force.

490
00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:41.039
<v Speaker 8>And the ground force that did it in Kosovo was

491
00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:44.599
<v Speaker 8>the the Serbian people. The ground force that did it

492
00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:47.599
<v Speaker 8>in Libya was the Libyan people. We need the Iranian

493
00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:49.319
<v Speaker 8>people to step up and act as that ground force.

494
00:25:49.359 --> 00:25:51.839
<v Speaker 5>Well, shoot, let me should should we arm the Kurds?

495
00:25:51.880 --> 00:25:54.279
<v Speaker 5>I mean, I keep hearing we're going back and forth

496
00:25:54.319 --> 00:25:54.559
<v Speaker 5>on that.

497
00:25:55.279 --> 00:25:56.480
<v Speaker 6>Is this a good idea, bad.

498
00:25:56.319 --> 00:26:00.240
<v Speaker 8>Idea, super fraught prospect. I don't know if it's the

499
00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:02.079
<v Speaker 8>best idea. I don't know if it's the worst idea.

500
00:26:02.119 --> 00:26:04.880
<v Speaker 8>I don't think it's a great idea. That might have

501
00:26:04.960 --> 00:26:09.720
<v Speaker 8>been misinformation designed to keep everybody in Iran on their toes.

502
00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:14.240
<v Speaker 8>Move forces, for example, to the northwest of the country,

503
00:26:14.920 --> 00:26:17.319
<v Speaker 8>or you know, these areas are in the northwest of

504
00:26:17.319 --> 00:26:21.480
<v Speaker 8>Iran are also arrest of population, and that would antagonize Turkey.

505
00:26:21.880 --> 00:26:23.680
<v Speaker 8>And we already have a kind of a fraught relationship

506
00:26:23.720 --> 00:26:26.240
<v Speaker 8>with the Syrian Kurds because we've been trying to abandon

507
00:26:26.279 --> 00:26:29.319
<v Speaker 8>them unsuccessfully for the better part of a decade. So

508
00:26:29.480 --> 00:26:32.079
<v Speaker 8>you know, we have the Kurds are a very reliable force,

509
00:26:32.119 --> 00:26:34.440
<v Speaker 8>and the Israelis love the Kurds. They have a particular

510
00:26:35.079 --> 00:26:39.839
<v Speaker 8>affinity for the stateless population of beset people for obvious

511
00:26:40.440 --> 00:26:44.559
<v Speaker 8>cultural reasons. But it would introduce a lot of variables

512
00:26:44.599 --> 00:26:47.440
<v Speaker 8>that we probably don't want at this point. The ground

513
00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:50.759
<v Speaker 8>force that we want to see is in urban centers,

514
00:26:51.119 --> 00:26:56.119
<v Speaker 8>in places like Tehran and Come and elsewhere is fahn Bhushir,

515
00:26:56.839 --> 00:26:59.519
<v Speaker 8>and we want the Iranian people to seize the nodes

516
00:26:59.559 --> 00:27:03.680
<v Speaker 8>of command and control in this regime and then force

517
00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:06.240
<v Speaker 8>the Iranians to rely on their traditional base of power,

518
00:27:06.279 --> 00:27:08.920
<v Speaker 8>which is really rural, more world than anything. But at

519
00:27:08.920 --> 00:27:12.160
<v Speaker 8>that point, you're talking about a quasi insurgency and that

520
00:27:12.200 --> 00:27:15.400
<v Speaker 8>would itself be a challenged to deal with, but it's

521
00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:17.839
<v Speaker 8>a challenge for another day. What should Trump.

522
00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:19.680
<v Speaker 1>Say, Yeah, that's my last question.

523
00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:22.319
<v Speaker 8>Right, Trump should level with the American people, and there's

524
00:27:22.359 --> 00:27:25.759
<v Speaker 8>never a bad time to do it. He's not given

525
00:27:25.759 --> 00:27:27.759
<v Speaker 8>an address to the public, and I, for the life

526
00:27:27.759 --> 00:27:31.599
<v Speaker 8>of me, don't know why. Since Obama White houses have

527
00:27:31.640 --> 00:27:34.279
<v Speaker 8>been allergic to the Oval Office as a setting.

528
00:27:34.599 --> 00:27:35.920
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, I don't get it.

529
00:27:36.279 --> 00:27:38.720
<v Speaker 5>I don't Oh, I think well, I think one reason

530
00:27:38.759 --> 00:27:41.079
<v Speaker 5>why is we no longer have the old media where

531
00:27:41.079 --> 00:27:43.880
<v Speaker 5>you had a roadblock where President's coming on at eight

532
00:27:43.880 --> 00:27:46.799
<v Speaker 5>o'clock prime time and all the networks would carry it.

533
00:27:47.039 --> 00:27:49.559
<v Speaker 5>But now we have five hundred channels and social media,

534
00:27:49.599 --> 00:27:51.720
<v Speaker 5>and I think that's one reason. I think Trump's not

535
00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:55.039
<v Speaker 5>very good at Oval Office addresses. But specifically, if you

536
00:27:55.160 --> 00:27:57.720
<v Speaker 5>Norah Rothman are his speech writer, what would you want

537
00:27:57.799 --> 00:27:59.599
<v Speaker 5>him to say or what specifically would you like to

538
00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:00.240
<v Speaker 5>hear from.

539
00:28:00.359 --> 00:28:03.200
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, I would say I would outline the nature of

540
00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:06.440
<v Speaker 8>the Iranian threat. I would define all the ways in

541
00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:08.319
<v Speaker 8>which we've been at war with this state from its

542
00:28:08.359 --> 00:28:11.519
<v Speaker 8>inception forty seven years ago, all the Americans that has killed,

543
00:28:11.559 --> 00:28:13.559
<v Speaker 8>all the blood and treasure that it SAPs from us,

544
00:28:13.960 --> 00:28:16.559
<v Speaker 8>and our forward deployment posture in the Middle East, which

545
00:28:16.599 --> 00:28:19.599
<v Speaker 8>is necessitated by the Iranian threat, and how much we

546
00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:23.160
<v Speaker 8>strategic benefits we would derive from the neutralization of that

547
00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:26.920
<v Speaker 8>threat allow us to finally execute that pivot to Asia

548
00:28:27.240 --> 00:28:32.079
<v Speaker 8>that every president has been frustrated by the nature of

549
00:28:32.359 --> 00:28:35.240
<v Speaker 8>both Iran and Russia. I think we can deter Russia

550
00:28:35.319 --> 00:28:38.920
<v Speaker 8>with NATO and with the conventional deployments that we have

551
00:28:39.799 --> 00:28:43.559
<v Speaker 8>in Europe. The Middle East is far more tricky, and

552
00:28:43.599 --> 00:28:47.400
<v Speaker 8>it requires surges and withdrawals, and we're very frustrated with

553
00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:51.400
<v Speaker 8>that relationship. We love to withdraw or at least maintain

554
00:28:51.720 --> 00:28:55.359
<v Speaker 8>a footprint that is far more, far less onerous than

555
00:28:55.400 --> 00:28:57.480
<v Speaker 8>the one we presently have, and the neutralization of that

556
00:28:57.480 --> 00:29:00.000
<v Speaker 8>threat would facilitate it. Likewise, I would make a moral arge,

557
00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:02.319
<v Speaker 8>even though the magam wing is allergic to it. But

558
00:29:02.359 --> 00:29:05.160
<v Speaker 8>the President isn't. He has said we want freedom for

559
00:29:05.200 --> 00:29:09.039
<v Speaker 8>the Iranian people. He speculated about humanitarian intervention on behalf

560
00:29:09.039 --> 00:29:12.839
<v Speaker 8>of the Iranian people. The American public does not necessarily respond,

561
00:29:13.240 --> 00:29:17.240
<v Speaker 8>is not as allergic to the notion that we should

562
00:29:17.279 --> 00:29:19.759
<v Speaker 8>intervene on the behalf of the Ranian people, and that slaughter,

563
00:29:19.880 --> 00:29:22.559
<v Speaker 8>that massacre of what Trump said in his State of

564
00:29:22.599 --> 00:29:25.759
<v Speaker 8>the Union speech was thirty two thousand people has sat

565
00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:28.359
<v Speaker 8>the Iranian regime of legitimacy, both at home and abroad.

566
00:29:28.880 --> 00:29:31.799
<v Speaker 8>The United Nations Security Council passed a resolution condemning Iran

567
00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:35.920
<v Speaker 8>attacking the Gulf States yesterday, and neither Russia or China

568
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:36.599
<v Speaker 8>vetoed it.

569
00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:37.680
<v Speaker 7>I think they would.

570
00:29:37.440 --> 00:29:40.319
<v Speaker 8>Have in the absence of that massacre. It has just

571
00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:43.599
<v Speaker 8>taken the wind out of the sales of the tankies

572
00:29:43.599 --> 00:29:45.960
<v Speaker 8>who would otherwise defend this regime.

573
00:29:46.319 --> 00:29:47.519
<v Speaker 7>And then lastly, I would.

574
00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:50.400
<v Speaker 8>Tell the American people to expect that they would experience

575
00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:53.759
<v Speaker 8>hardships as a result of this. This is not going

576
00:29:53.799 --> 00:29:57.559
<v Speaker 8>to be a quick endeavor. American soldiers may come home

577
00:29:57.599 --> 00:29:59.839
<v Speaker 8>and caskets some already have, and we may see more

578
00:30:00.200 --> 00:30:01.960
<v Speaker 8>and you're going to pay more at the pump, and

579
00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:04.000
<v Speaker 8>it's going to be a while. I think Joe Biden

580
00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:06.920
<v Speaker 8>made a big mistake by insisting that the pain that

581
00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:10.920
<v Speaker 8>Americans would experience in their pocketbooks would be minimal and

582
00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:14.720
<v Speaker 8>it would be offset by administration actions. It wasn't, and

583
00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:18.119
<v Speaker 8>the administration suffered for not telling the American public the truth.

584
00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:20.279
<v Speaker 8>I don't I sympathize with the people who say that,

585
00:30:20.759 --> 00:30:22.960
<v Speaker 8>you know that the president hasn't been clear in his

586
00:30:23.119 --> 00:30:27.039
<v Speaker 8>goals or hasn't necessarily, you know, prepped the groundwork for

587
00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:30.200
<v Speaker 8>this sort of thing. Trump hasn't really trusted the American

588
00:30:30.200 --> 00:30:33.119
<v Speaker 8>people with the truth, and they're reciprocating they don't trust

589
00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:37.160
<v Speaker 8>him either, and it's never, never too late to rectify

590
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:39.400
<v Speaker 8>that by leveling with us.

591
00:30:42.359 --> 00:30:49.240
<v Speaker 2>Do you think now that they can be convinced? No,

592
00:30:49.319 --> 00:30:51.680
<v Speaker 2>not the administration, the public. Do you think the public

593
00:30:51.799 --> 00:30:54.880
<v Speaker 2>can be convinced? And I went off on a rent

594
00:30:54.920 --> 00:30:57.079
<v Speaker 2>on the Editor's podcast we both do together. You went

595
00:30:57.160 --> 00:31:02.799
<v Speaker 2>on that one about the show termism of the news

596
00:31:02.839 --> 00:31:05.599
<v Speaker 2>coverage of this. I think you can blame Trump to

597
00:31:05.599 --> 00:31:07.960
<v Speaker 2>some extent for that, and it wasn't an attempt to

598
00:31:07.960 --> 00:31:09.720
<v Speaker 2>smuggle in a case for the war, because as you don't.

599
00:31:09.720 --> 00:31:10.680
<v Speaker 4>I'm agnostic, but.

600
00:31:10.640 --> 00:31:13.039
<v Speaker 2>I'm just irritated by the fact that we're doing this

601
00:31:13.079 --> 00:31:17.400
<v Speaker 2>big thing, and you have daily tracking of oil prices,

602
00:31:17.440 --> 00:31:19.000
<v Speaker 2>even when they go up and then go back to

603
00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:24.920
<v Speaker 2>where they started, and the assumption that we're now in

604
00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:27.160
<v Speaker 2>chaos and that everybody should panic.

605
00:31:27.759 --> 00:31:30.880
<v Speaker 4>That is seen through one.

606
00:31:30.839 --> 00:31:34.319
<v Speaker 2>Lens, just a totally unwillingness to deal with trade offs.

607
00:31:34.839 --> 00:31:38.359
<v Speaker 2>And I wonder whether that comes as much from a

608
00:31:38.400 --> 00:31:42.839
<v Speaker 2>public that is dispositionally unsuited to this sort of conflict

609
00:31:42.839 --> 00:31:45.359
<v Speaker 2>as from the Trump administration's lack of communication, which I

610
00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:46.119
<v Speaker 2>have criticized.

611
00:31:46.160 --> 00:31:48.000
<v Speaker 4>Do you think the public can be convinced to stick

612
00:31:48.039 --> 00:31:50.000
<v Speaker 4>with this? I do.

613
00:31:50.599 --> 00:31:53.880
<v Speaker 8>I think the bully pulpit is a powerful instrument in

614
00:31:53.920 --> 00:31:57.200
<v Speaker 8>the president's hands, and when it's used properly, and the

615
00:31:57.240 --> 00:31:59.440
<v Speaker 8>case is made not once, not twice, but again and

616
00:31:59.440 --> 00:32:01.920
<v Speaker 8>again and again and repetition until you can summon the

617
00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:05.359
<v Speaker 8>arguments yourself by memory. I think that does have an effect,

618
00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:07.480
<v Speaker 8>and I don't think he's starting from a baseline of zero.

619
00:32:08.240 --> 00:32:11.559
<v Speaker 8>Polling indicates that the American public recognizes that Iran is

620
00:32:11.599 --> 00:32:14.759
<v Speaker 8>a threat to American strategic interests as well as the

621
00:32:14.799 --> 00:32:18.720
<v Speaker 8>safety of individual citizens. And we had that one survey

622
00:32:18.759 --> 00:32:22.119
<v Speaker 8>which you've talked about also on the editors from CBS

623
00:32:22.119 --> 00:32:24.599
<v Speaker 8>News that indicates if this were a week long endeavor,

624
00:32:25.160 --> 00:32:28.440
<v Speaker 8>weeks slung endeavor rather, that it would be overwhelmingly popular.

625
00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:32.119
<v Speaker 8>It's a seventy seven seventy four percent proposition in favor.

626
00:32:32.839 --> 00:32:36.039
<v Speaker 8>What people are concerned about, in my view, which is

627
00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:40.640
<v Speaker 8>just my gut, is the potential for this to be

628
00:32:40.680 --> 00:32:43.720
<v Speaker 8>a very long drawn out conflict that involves a slow

629
00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:47.240
<v Speaker 8>drip of US casualties akin to the insurgency phase of

630
00:32:47.240 --> 00:32:49.880
<v Speaker 8>the Iraq War. That's what people don't want, and they

631
00:32:49.880 --> 00:32:52.839
<v Speaker 8>want the president to reassure them to that effect. Could

632
00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:55.599
<v Speaker 8>the public be convinced by Trump. I don't know, because

633
00:32:55.640 --> 00:32:58.319
<v Speaker 8>he's drump and he's a very polarizing figure. But we

634
00:32:58.359 --> 00:33:00.400
<v Speaker 8>also had the survey that I pointed out to Day,

635
00:33:01.960 --> 00:33:06.839
<v Speaker 8>which Aaron blake Over at CNN identified that the support

636
00:33:06.880 --> 00:33:11.319
<v Speaker 8>for the Iraq Iran wars is relatively unpopular. Let's say

637
00:33:11.359 --> 00:33:14.400
<v Speaker 8>it's about ten twelve points underwater. But if you take

638
00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:16.759
<v Speaker 8>Trump's name out of the question, it's an even proposition.

639
00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:21.000
<v Speaker 8>So people are evaluating it through the lens of domestic politics.

640
00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:23.119
<v Speaker 8>And that's really what the press is doing too. They're

641
00:33:23.119 --> 00:33:25.480
<v Speaker 8>evaluating all of this to the lens of domestic politics.

642
00:33:25.519 --> 00:33:30.599
<v Speaker 8>It's barely concealed their desire to brand the Republican Party

643
00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:33.279
<v Speaker 8>with something akin to the Iraq War so they can

644
00:33:33.519 --> 00:33:37.000
<v Speaker 8>take advantage of Iraq Wars in syndrome reducts. I mean

645
00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:39.680
<v Speaker 8>that is, it's so obvious that there's a political motive

646
00:33:39.720 --> 00:33:47.119
<v Speaker 8>behind the un endurable, overwhelming drum beat of stories from

647
00:33:47.119 --> 00:33:50.720
<v Speaker 8>the press about how everything is going wrong. The Gulf

648
00:33:50.799 --> 00:33:53.880
<v Speaker 8>States are turning on us. We can't change the regime.

649
00:33:53.880 --> 00:33:56.279
<v Speaker 8>The regime is entrenched. But if the United States doesn't

650
00:33:56.279 --> 00:34:00.359
<v Speaker 8>stop trying to engineer regime, regime change will be woraw

651
00:34:00.440 --> 00:34:03.079
<v Speaker 8>for it, so we have to now pursue this campaign

652
00:34:03.160 --> 00:34:05.440
<v Speaker 8>that's going to be a losing campaign or will even

653
00:34:05.599 --> 00:34:06.759
<v Speaker 8>be in worse straits.

654
00:34:07.880 --> 00:34:08.480
<v Speaker 7>You know that we.

655
00:34:08.519 --> 00:34:11.679
<v Speaker 8>Can't we can't open the Hormuz Strait anytime in the

656
00:34:11.719 --> 00:34:14.960
<v Speaker 8>foreseeable future. On and on and on and at the

657
00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:18.039
<v Speaker 8>expense of the tactical victories that we're achieving, which are

658
00:34:18.719 --> 00:34:23.519
<v Speaker 8>incredibly impressive and really detrimental to the future of this regime.

659
00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:27.840
<v Speaker 8>I think we always talk about what America's situation is,

660
00:34:27.880 --> 00:34:30.400
<v Speaker 8>you know, what its strategic impediments are, it's hindrances.

661
00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:32.760
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, I think about it from the regimes perspective.

662
00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:35.400
<v Speaker 8>Let's say there's a scenario in which Trump Trump pulls

663
00:34:35.400 --> 00:34:37.639
<v Speaker 8>out early, so you know, it declares victory in retreats,

664
00:34:38.159 --> 00:34:41.440
<v Speaker 8>and you have a rump Iranian regime that's really nasty.

665
00:34:41.480 --> 00:34:42.679
<v Speaker 7>Matt is a bunch of hornets.

666
00:34:42.920 --> 00:34:43.480
<v Speaker 1>But they have no.

667
00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:47.159
<v Speaker 8>Ballistic missile capability anymore. They're seriously degraded in their capacity

668
00:34:47.199 --> 00:34:50.960
<v Speaker 8>to exploit an export oil. They have no nuclear capacity anymore.

669
00:34:51.000 --> 00:34:54.719
<v Speaker 8>Just about every besiege facility is destroyed, every IRGC facility

670
00:34:54.800 --> 00:34:58.039
<v Speaker 8>is destroyed, and you still have an angry Iranian population

671
00:34:58.159 --> 00:35:00.880
<v Speaker 8>that wants vengeance. For the thirty two two thousand family

672
00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:02.960
<v Speaker 8>members and friends that they lost at the hands of

673
00:35:02.960 --> 00:35:07.519
<v Speaker 8>this regime, and in a golf region, however, quietly seething

674
00:35:07.559 --> 00:35:09.559
<v Speaker 8>they are at the United States for being drawn into

675
00:35:09.559 --> 00:35:13.159
<v Speaker 8>this thing. There's precisely one game in town to stop

676
00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:16.039
<v Speaker 8>Iran from executing at any time at a point and

677
00:35:16.119 --> 00:35:19.639
<v Speaker 8>its desire to disrupt the oil market in its region

678
00:35:20.079 --> 00:35:21.880
<v Speaker 8>to do so. China's not going to do that, even

679
00:35:21.880 --> 00:35:23.559
<v Speaker 8>if it had the capability. Russia is not going to

680
00:35:23.639 --> 00:35:25.519
<v Speaker 8>do that, even if it had the capability. Israel and

681
00:35:25.519 --> 00:35:28.079
<v Speaker 8>the United States are the only game, so they're going

682
00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:31.320
<v Speaker 8>to play, and the Iranian regime will be constrained both

683
00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:34.760
<v Speaker 8>by its material deficiencies and its primary threat, which it

684
00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:38.159
<v Speaker 8>makes no bones about, its own people. If you hear

685
00:35:38.199 --> 00:35:40.840
<v Speaker 8>the statements from whatever is left of this Iranian regime,

686
00:35:40.880 --> 00:35:42.760
<v Speaker 8>they intend to treat anybody out in the streets like

687
00:35:42.800 --> 00:35:45.639
<v Speaker 8>an enemy combatant, shoot them on site. They're terrified of

688
00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:48.360
<v Speaker 8>their people, and their people will remain terrifying for.

689
00:35:48.320 --> 00:35:49.280
<v Speaker 7>The foreseeable future.

690
00:35:49.360 --> 00:35:52.159
<v Speaker 8>This regime's days are numbered, it's just a matter of when,

691
00:35:52.639 --> 00:35:54.440
<v Speaker 8>and hopefully when is sooner rather than later.

692
00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:57.639
<v Speaker 1>No one of the problems people have discussed is that

693
00:35:57.679 --> 00:36:00.440
<v Speaker 1>they set up a system by which the caption of

694
00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:02.760
<v Speaker 1>the regime does not mean capitulation. That there are all

695
00:36:02.840 --> 00:36:06.079
<v Speaker 1>these autonomous groups that essentially don't have to answer to anybody.

696
00:36:06.119 --> 00:36:08.599
<v Speaker 1>They can just continue on the war because they have

697
00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:10.920
<v Speaker 1>authority delegated. And then regardless of whether or not there's

698
00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:13.920
<v Speaker 1>a I totally at the top, we'll see about that.

699
00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:16.159
<v Speaker 1>But I do know that you're right about the press,

700
00:36:16.199 --> 00:36:20.199
<v Speaker 1>and that if Trump was just sitting in a wheelchair

701
00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:23.880
<v Speaker 1>with a long cigarette holder pointed up at a jaunty

702
00:36:23.960 --> 00:36:27.199
<v Speaker 1>angle and a fedora, he'd probably be regarded as a liberator.

703
00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:29.840
<v Speaker 1>But there are other places to liberate. We've seen an

704
00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:32.880
<v Speaker 1>interesting selection of American activity in the last few months.

705
00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:36.679
<v Speaker 1>We saw the Magic garraid in Venezuela, where the guys

706
00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:40.719
<v Speaker 1>swooped down used phaser guns to turn everyone to jelly

707
00:36:40.760 --> 00:36:44.960
<v Speaker 1>and then to Kumodora. We've seen overwhelming force in the Gulf,

708
00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:47.840
<v Speaker 1>and now we're talking about a sort of diplomacy and

709
00:36:48.039 --> 00:36:50.199
<v Speaker 1>sitting down around a table to do something about Cuber.

710
00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:55.480
<v Speaker 1>What is going on with Cuba and what is the

711
00:36:55.559 --> 00:36:58.880
<v Speaker 1>endgame likely to be? Personally, for me, the endgame I

712
00:36:58.880 --> 00:37:02.000
<v Speaker 1>would like to be all the Cuban regime guys on

713
00:37:02.039 --> 00:37:05.039
<v Speaker 1>the shore of Cuba, putting together boats out of milk

714
00:37:05.079 --> 00:37:09.800
<v Speaker 1>cartons and old fifty seven Mercury chassis and making their

715
00:37:09.840 --> 00:37:14.000
<v Speaker 1>way perilously to Florida, where all of the other Cuban

716
00:37:14.039 --> 00:37:15.960
<v Speaker 1>guys are sitting there waiting for them with a little

717
00:37:16.119 --> 00:37:19.119
<v Speaker 1>you know, tapping chilale's in their palms. But we'll see.

718
00:37:19.239 --> 00:37:20.360
<v Speaker 1>So what's the Cuba situation.

719
00:37:21.199 --> 00:37:25.000
<v Speaker 8>Cuba situation is again pretty opaque, but the regime has

720
00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:28.239
<v Speaker 8>made the administration rather has made no bones about its

721
00:37:28.280 --> 00:37:32.199
<v Speaker 8>desire to see the Cuban regime change its character fundamentally,

722
00:37:32.280 --> 00:37:35.519
<v Speaker 8>if not ceased to exist in its present form. It's

723
00:37:35.519 --> 00:37:39.320
<v Speaker 8>a worthy and noble goal. And again it's not exactly

724
00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:42.920
<v Speaker 8>veiled that their intention when taking out Maduro as they did,

725
00:37:43.679 --> 00:37:46.800
<v Speaker 8>was to create a client Venezuelan regime that would give

726
00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:50.719
<v Speaker 8>us the essentially licensed to direct where their for their

727
00:37:50.800 --> 00:37:53.679
<v Speaker 8>energy was being dispatched to the design they're being to

728
00:37:53.800 --> 00:37:56.039
<v Speaker 8>throttle China's access to it.

729
00:37:56.400 --> 00:37:57.599
<v Speaker 7>But mostly Cuba.

730
00:37:57.679 --> 00:38:00.480
<v Speaker 8>Cuba is propped up by the Venezuelan regime and it

731
00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:02.880
<v Speaker 8>has been cultivating that regime since Hugo Chaves took power

732
00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:04.920
<v Speaker 8>in nineteen ninety nine, and that's where it gets most

733
00:38:04.960 --> 00:38:07.079
<v Speaker 8>of his energy, and without that energy, the state is

734
00:38:07.159 --> 00:38:11.920
<v Speaker 8>very close to economic collapse. It's been economically moribund throughout

735
00:38:11.920 --> 00:38:16.360
<v Speaker 8>this century, but it's especially dire right now. And yeah,

736
00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:18.559
<v Speaker 8>the goal is to neutralize that as a threat. And

737
00:38:18.599 --> 00:38:20.880
<v Speaker 8>there is a grand strategic component to all of this.

738
00:38:21.880 --> 00:38:23.760
<v Speaker 8>I don't know where that campaign is going. It seems

739
00:38:23.800 --> 00:38:27.559
<v Speaker 8>to be in much more of the distant future than

740
00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:30.480
<v Speaker 8>the administration likes to say, if not the distant future,

741
00:38:30.519 --> 00:38:32.920
<v Speaker 8>within the next you know, several years. It's not on

742
00:38:32.960 --> 00:38:37.320
<v Speaker 8>the immediate to do list, but the strategic rationale. You know,

743
00:38:37.400 --> 00:38:41.559
<v Speaker 8>when on October six, twenty twenty three, the so called

744
00:38:41.639 --> 00:38:45.400
<v Speaker 8>Axis of anti American powers that I was very energized

745
00:38:45.440 --> 00:38:49.360
<v Speaker 8>about looked quite robust, and it looked like an approximate

746
00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:55.280
<v Speaker 8>military alliance Russia, China, North Korea, Venezuela, Cuba, Iran, and

747
00:38:55.360 --> 00:38:59.119
<v Speaker 8>you could throw in some Latin American hostile states in

748
00:38:59.159 --> 00:39:00.880
<v Speaker 8>there as well. But for the most part, that was

749
00:39:01.239 --> 00:39:03.679
<v Speaker 8>what we were dealing with. The regime is still in

750
00:39:03.679 --> 00:39:07.360
<v Speaker 8>place in Venezuela, but it's much more chastened and pliant,

751
00:39:08.239 --> 00:39:10.800
<v Speaker 8>and that was valuable ahead of the Iranian campaign because

752
00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:13.639
<v Speaker 8>the Iranians have a significant presence. The IRGC had a

753
00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:17.480
<v Speaker 8>significant presence in Venezuela and Latin America broadly, and they've

754
00:39:17.480 --> 00:39:20.119
<v Speaker 8>executed some of the worst terrorist attacks in Latin America,

755
00:39:21.159 --> 00:39:23.920
<v Speaker 8>and that was a reduced threat. Again, Cuba is a

756
00:39:23.960 --> 00:39:28.119
<v Speaker 8>reduced threat as a result of these initiatives. And if

757
00:39:28.119 --> 00:39:30.800
<v Speaker 8>the Iranian regime falls, it takes another chess piece off

758
00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:34.360
<v Speaker 8>the board, one of the most unpredictable and I would

759
00:39:34.360 --> 00:39:39.039
<v Speaker 8>say evil of America's antagonists on the world stage. Now,

760
00:39:39.039 --> 00:39:42.519
<v Speaker 8>this isn't going to throttle China's access to energy. China

761
00:39:42.639 --> 00:39:44.960
<v Speaker 8>will lean very heavily on Iran in the future, or

762
00:39:45.239 --> 00:39:47.639
<v Speaker 8>rather Russia in the future for energy exports. And it's

763
00:39:47.639 --> 00:39:52.000
<v Speaker 8>also insulated itself somewhat with its investments in both fossil

764
00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:55.559
<v Speaker 8>fuel power generation and electrification of for example cars, And

765
00:39:55.559 --> 00:39:58.960
<v Speaker 8>we'll have it, they're very leaning heavily into electrified cars,

766
00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:02.760
<v Speaker 8>which reduces the sting if the Iranian regime were to

767
00:40:02.800 --> 00:40:06.079
<v Speaker 8>fall along with Venezuela and throttle China's access.

768
00:40:05.719 --> 00:40:07.079
<v Speaker 7>To oil, they won't be without oil.

769
00:40:07.880 --> 00:40:11.320
<v Speaker 8>But we bind Russia and China together in ways that

770
00:40:11.360 --> 00:40:14.440
<v Speaker 8>actually advantage us. What we kind of want to do

771
00:40:14.480 --> 00:40:19.719
<v Speaker 8>now is the opposite of engineering an anti Kissingerian foreign policy,

772
00:40:19.760 --> 00:40:22.159
<v Speaker 8>the opposite of the Sino Soviet split. We want to

773
00:40:22.159 --> 00:40:26.119
<v Speaker 8>bind these two together. They deserve each other. They are

774
00:40:26.280 --> 00:40:29.239
<v Speaker 8>by no means allies. They all of these states are

775
00:40:29.239 --> 00:40:32.559
<v Speaker 8>not allies in the conventional sense that we would recognize them.

776
00:40:33.000 --> 00:40:34.960
<v Speaker 8>We come to your aid if you're attacked. That's not

777
00:40:35.119 --> 00:40:39.320
<v Speaker 8>how these alliances work. Their relationships of convenience, and their

778
00:40:39.360 --> 00:40:42.519
<v Speaker 8>only shared principle is the desire to see that the

779
00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:46.119
<v Speaker 8>American led geopolitical order collapse and be replaced with something else.

780
00:40:46.159 --> 00:40:48.320
<v Speaker 8>And they all disagree on what that something else looks like.

781
00:40:49.519 --> 00:40:52.519
<v Speaker 8>But they don't come to each other's defense when they're attacked.

782
00:40:52.960 --> 00:40:56.079
<v Speaker 8>They prop them up and support them in covert ways.

783
00:40:56.599 --> 00:40:59.679
<v Speaker 8>But those covert ways are unequal to the nature of

784
00:40:59.679 --> 00:41:01.800
<v Speaker 8>the threat. When you're under bombardment from the United States

785
00:41:01.840 --> 00:41:04.679
<v Speaker 8>and Israel, and we would like to see Beijing that

786
00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:08.039
<v Speaker 8>is far more reliant on Russia, and Russia that is

787
00:41:08.039 --> 00:41:10.920
<v Speaker 8>a far more chasing junior partner to China, and the

788
00:41:10.960 --> 00:41:14.280
<v Speaker 8>two of them stuck with each other in a world

789
00:41:14.280 --> 00:41:17.880
<v Speaker 8>that is increasingly arrayed against them and inclined towards idle

790
00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:21.400
<v Speaker 8>isolating them. That's a much more advantageous future from American

791
00:41:21.480 --> 00:41:23.039
<v Speaker 8>and American strategic perspective.

792
00:41:23.519 --> 00:41:25.840
<v Speaker 1>Authoritary in states, of course, can always crack down on

793
00:41:25.880 --> 00:41:27.960
<v Speaker 1>their own people when they get restive. The problem with

794
00:41:27.960 --> 00:41:30.039
<v Speaker 1>the West is that we have a group of people

795
00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:33.920
<v Speaker 1>who don't like us and would like to do something

796
00:41:33.960 --> 00:41:36.960
<v Speaker 1>about it. Which leads us to your upcoming book, Blood

797
00:41:37.000 --> 00:41:42.719
<v Speaker 1>and Progress, a century of left wing violence. Blood and Progress.

798
00:41:43.159 --> 00:41:45.480
<v Speaker 1>Would that be described on the left as as sort

799
00:41:45.519 --> 00:41:48.559
<v Speaker 1>of like handmaide, you know, walking hand in hand down

800
00:41:48.599 --> 00:41:50.559
<v Speaker 1>the aisle, A good thing. You've got to crack some

801
00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:55.400
<v Speaker 1>eggs to, you know, to make an omelet. Do they

802
00:41:56.239 --> 00:41:57.760
<v Speaker 1>tell us what the book is about, aside from the

803
00:41:57.760 --> 00:42:01.800
<v Speaker 1>title and whether or not the the rivulets of blood

804
00:42:01.800 --> 00:42:03.760
<v Speaker 1>that we saw in the sixties still continue to course

805
00:42:03.800 --> 00:42:06.679
<v Speaker 1>through the veins of modern progressivism. Oh, that was a bad,

806
00:42:06.920 --> 00:42:07.760
<v Speaker 1>bad line to.

807
00:42:11.239 --> 00:42:11.920
<v Speaker 7>Rather poetic.

808
00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:15.599
<v Speaker 1>Actually, oh no, that's.

809
00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:16.679
<v Speaker 7>Very literary, dude.

810
00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:21.079
<v Speaker 8>So the book springs from, as so many books do,

811
00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:26.360
<v Speaker 8>a fallacy that is quite popular abroad, and it is

812
00:42:26.440 --> 00:42:32.079
<v Speaker 8>reinforced by some selectively curated statistics and some motivated institutions

813
00:42:32.159 --> 00:42:34.559
<v Speaker 8>that promote the notion that the political right in the

814
00:42:34.639 --> 00:42:37.599
<v Speaker 8>United States is the font from which all domestic political

815
00:42:37.639 --> 00:42:42.599
<v Speaker 8>violence springs. That is a notion abroad that is very popular,

816
00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:47.639
<v Speaker 8>closely held, particularly by the left, and relatively unchallenged, and

817
00:42:47.679 --> 00:42:51.559
<v Speaker 8>it is wrong. It is supported, as I write, by

818
00:42:51.639 --> 00:42:56.760
<v Speaker 8>some not a conspiracy, but selectively curated statistics, some of

819
00:42:56.800 --> 00:43:01.239
<v Speaker 8>which are influenced as there's particularly influential national security document

820
00:43:01.280 --> 00:43:04.920
<v Speaker 8>that was produced for the Department of hooland Security which

821
00:43:05.159 --> 00:43:08.599
<v Speaker 8>very bravely notes that the research into political left wing

822
00:43:08.679 --> 00:43:13.079
<v Speaker 8>violence is tainted in part by the fact that practitioners

823
00:43:13.079 --> 00:43:16.440
<v Speaker 8>of left wing political violence were contributors, if not the authors,

824
00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:19.599
<v Speaker 8>of some of those studies. There is intimidation at work

825
00:43:19.840 --> 00:43:23.480
<v Speaker 8>to researchers in these fields who study, for example, what

826
00:43:23.519 --> 00:43:29.320
<v Speaker 8>the FBI calls AVE terrorism anarchist violent extremist terrorism, which

827
00:43:29.360 --> 00:43:33.119
<v Speaker 8>is conventionally where left wing terrorism, domestic terrorism fits into

828
00:43:33.159 --> 00:43:36.920
<v Speaker 8>within the broader landscape of DVEs domestic violent extremists.

829
00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:40.840
<v Speaker 7>And you have the ADL list, you have these.

830
00:43:40.880 --> 00:43:46.840
<v Speaker 8>University projects, all of which conspire to allege, for reasons

831
00:43:46.840 --> 00:43:51.039
<v Speaker 8>that I outline in book length detail, why the American

832
00:43:51.119 --> 00:43:53.239
<v Speaker 8>right is more violent than the left. And if you

833
00:43:53.320 --> 00:43:56.880
<v Speaker 8>go through the individual incidences of violence in our time,

834
00:43:57.199 --> 00:43:59.920
<v Speaker 8>it certainly does seem like we're experiencing a wave of

835
00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:03.000
<v Speaker 8>left wing political violence that is unparalleled by the right

836
00:44:03.039 --> 00:44:06.639
<v Speaker 8>and does not have a symmetry on the right. And

837
00:44:06.679 --> 00:44:08.599
<v Speaker 8>if you go back a couple of decades, you see

838
00:44:08.599 --> 00:44:11.719
<v Speaker 8>the antecedents to the violence that we're experiencing now in

839
00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:18.000
<v Speaker 8>the form of the protests around the WTO in Seattle

840
00:44:18.039 --> 00:44:21.039
<v Speaker 8>in nineteen ninety nine, the Occupy Wall Street movement, the

841
00:44:21.199 --> 00:44:23.800
<v Speaker 8>semi violent protests against the Iraq War, the two thousand

842
00:44:23.800 --> 00:44:27.400
<v Speaker 8>and eight GOP convention, NATO summits in Chicago, all of

843
00:44:27.440 --> 00:44:28.199
<v Speaker 8>which were.

844
00:44:28.280 --> 00:44:29.159
<v Speaker 7>Very violent and.

845
00:44:30.639 --> 00:44:33.440
<v Speaker 8>Surrounded by radical elements, and those radical elements got sucker

846
00:44:34.039 --> 00:44:38.320
<v Speaker 8>from institutions, left wing institutions in the United States. But

847
00:44:38.400 --> 00:44:41.119
<v Speaker 8>then you start to see parallels between that and waves

848
00:44:41.159 --> 00:44:43.320
<v Speaker 8>of violence that we've experienced in the past from left

849
00:44:43.360 --> 00:44:46.679
<v Speaker 8>wing extremists, like the nineteen tens and nineteen twenties, with

850
00:44:46.760 --> 00:44:50.840
<v Speaker 8>the Italian anarchist movement, which today is considered not necessarily

851
00:44:50.880 --> 00:44:53.440
<v Speaker 8>by some considered not necessarily a left wing terrorist movement

852
00:44:53.480 --> 00:44:56.679
<v Speaker 8>because they're anarchists, Right, What does anarchism have to do

853
00:44:57.079 --> 00:44:59.000
<v Speaker 8>with the left? They want a big government, they want

854
00:44:59.039 --> 00:44:59.519
<v Speaker 8>no government.

855
00:44:59.559 --> 00:45:00.840
<v Speaker 7>What is it to do with anything?

856
00:45:00.880 --> 00:45:03.000
<v Speaker 8>And you go back into you can say, also the

857
00:45:03.039 --> 00:45:05.480
<v Speaker 8>wave of terrorism from the nineteen seventies nineteen eighties that

858
00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:09.519
<v Speaker 8>Brian Burrow documented in his excellent book Days of Rage,

859
00:45:10.159 --> 00:45:11.719
<v Speaker 8>these things are. And then you go back to the

860
00:45:12.079 --> 00:45:15.599
<v Speaker 8>Puerto Rican terrorism, into Puerto Rican independence terrorism, which had

861
00:45:15.639 --> 00:45:18.239
<v Speaker 8>ties to the Soviet Union in Cuba, which is and

862
00:45:18.280 --> 00:45:21.079
<v Speaker 8>it's all forgotten. The chroniclers of these things each to

863
00:45:21.199 --> 00:45:23.800
<v Speaker 8>a man say, Wow, it's just forgotten, isn't.

864
00:45:23.599 --> 00:45:25.480
<v Speaker 7>It as though that wasn't motivated?

865
00:45:25.519 --> 00:45:29.880
<v Speaker 8>Reasoning as though that was as though that just organically happened. No,

866
00:45:29.960 --> 00:45:32.400
<v Speaker 8>it didn't organically happen. This is part of a project,

867
00:45:33.119 --> 00:45:35.480
<v Speaker 8>and the left in cubits its own heroes and martyrs

868
00:45:35.840 --> 00:45:38.639
<v Speaker 8>and justifies political violence as some sort of a romantic

869
00:45:38.679 --> 00:45:42.559
<v Speaker 8>expression of ideological zeal and. They've been doing it for decades,

870
00:45:42.679 --> 00:45:45.239
<v Speaker 8>and it's about time they're confronted with the results of

871
00:45:45.320 --> 00:45:45.800
<v Speaker 8>their work.

872
00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:51.159
<v Speaker 1>I think it is extraordinary that you downplay the influence

873
00:45:51.199 --> 00:45:53.639
<v Speaker 1>of men in khaki pants with tiki torches, who I

874
00:45:53.639 --> 00:45:56.360
<v Speaker 1>think were responsible for something like ninety nine percent of

875
00:45:56.400 --> 00:45:59.400
<v Speaker 1>the one hundred thousand people killed in twenty eighteen. But

876
00:45:59.519 --> 00:46:01.199
<v Speaker 1>I guess we're gonna have to have you back when

877
00:46:01.199 --> 00:46:03.079
<v Speaker 1>the book comes out in May, and indeed we will

878
00:46:03.239 --> 00:46:04.840
<v Speaker 1>thank you for being with us again and we look

879
00:46:04.880 --> 00:46:06.719
<v Speaker 1>forward to you in the future. We are going to

880
00:46:06.760 --> 00:46:09.480
<v Speaker 1>say goodbye until the next time. And always a pleasure.

881
00:46:09.480 --> 00:46:11.840
<v Speaker 1>I always instructive, I always enlightening. Noah Rothman, you can

882
00:46:11.880 --> 00:46:15.159
<v Speaker 1>find a National Review and other places as well. Thanks Noah,

883
00:46:15.159 --> 00:46:15.880
<v Speaker 1>We'll talk to you later.

884
00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:16.880
<v Speaker 7>Thank you, guys. Be well.

885
00:46:19.519 --> 00:46:21.320
<v Speaker 1>The other thing about political violence, we just had a

886
00:46:21.360 --> 00:46:24.400
<v Speaker 1>little bit of it ourselves here in New York. We

887
00:46:24.440 --> 00:46:27.800
<v Speaker 1>had a bomb throwing and the bomb throwing was remarkable

888
00:46:27.840 --> 00:46:31.079
<v Speaker 1>for the whole Mandammi incident was remarkable for a variety

889
00:46:31.079 --> 00:46:34.039
<v Speaker 1>of things. One the target, two the guys who did it.

890
00:46:34.519 --> 00:46:39.360
<v Speaker 1>Three the fellow on ex Twitter who was captured sort

891
00:46:39.360 --> 00:46:42.400
<v Speaker 1>of with a bullhorn talking about the need to accept

892
00:46:42.440 --> 00:46:45.760
<v Speaker 1>more many immigrants as possible at the same time that

893
00:46:45.840 --> 00:46:48.039
<v Speaker 1>a bomb was being thrown over his head, and then

894
00:46:48.119 --> 00:46:51.800
<v Speaker 1>him going on X and continuing to say, I stand

895
00:46:51.800 --> 00:46:53.400
<v Speaker 1>by what I say and I know at least I'm

896
00:46:53.440 --> 00:46:56.039
<v Speaker 1>not being a bigot about this. And then finally the

897
00:46:56.079 --> 00:46:59.039
<v Speaker 1>press getting it wrong and saying that the you know,

898
00:46:59.159 --> 00:47:02.280
<v Speaker 1>the bombs are being thrown bami. It's a perfect encapsulation

899
00:47:02.360 --> 00:47:04.719
<v Speaker 1>of modern politics. Charles, would you agree?

900
00:47:06.079 --> 00:47:08.639
<v Speaker 2>I was so irritated by this, And I just want

901
00:47:08.679 --> 00:47:11.719
<v Speaker 2>to say, James, that I absolutely admire the finesse with

902
00:47:11.800 --> 00:47:14.920
<v Speaker 2>which you're torturing Steve here, who, as you say, has

903
00:47:14.960 --> 00:47:17.840
<v Speaker 2>been desperate to talk on this topic since it was

904
00:47:17.880 --> 00:47:21.599
<v Speaker 2>first raised, and then you went to me instead. We

905
00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:25.039
<v Speaker 2>can't see it, but he's probably twitching like a drug addict.

906
00:47:26.719 --> 00:47:28.559
<v Speaker 1>Well, I want to ask you some questions about progressive

907
00:47:28.599 --> 00:47:32.039
<v Speaker 1>rock from the seventies next, Charles, but go on.

908
00:47:33.679 --> 00:47:36.559
<v Speaker 2>I was revolted, and I shall focus on this, partly

909
00:47:36.599 --> 00:47:38.920
<v Speaker 2>because it's true, and partly so Steve can deal with

910
00:47:38.960 --> 00:47:44.280
<v Speaker 2>the meat. I was revolted by the media in this circumstance.

911
00:47:44.440 --> 00:47:47.480
<v Speaker 2>This was indefensible, and by that I don't just mean morally,

912
00:47:47.559 --> 00:47:50.360
<v Speaker 2>I mean it was impossible to defend. Normally, they wave

913
00:47:50.400 --> 00:47:53.159
<v Speaker 2>their hands and they say, oh, you're just being sensitive, or.

914
00:47:53.360 --> 00:47:56.079
<v Speaker 4>If you read to paragraph nineteen, you're saying no.

915
00:47:57.119 --> 00:48:01.880
<v Speaker 2>This was a deliberate attempt to ignore what had happened.

916
00:48:01.920 --> 00:48:04.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't know whether it was because it was so

917
00:48:04.440 --> 00:48:07.719
<v Speaker 2>poignant to watch the guy saying everyone's welcome here while

918
00:48:07.840 --> 00:48:11.400
<v Speaker 2>an Islamic terrorist is throwing bombs over his head, or

919
00:48:11.679 --> 00:48:15.719
<v Speaker 2>whether it's just reflex the notion or the suspicion that

920
00:48:15.800 --> 00:48:18.320
<v Speaker 2>if the press reports honestly on these sorts of things

921
00:48:18.320 --> 00:48:20.039
<v Speaker 2>and the wrong people will hear it and draw the

922
00:48:20.079 --> 00:48:26.000
<v Speaker 2>wrong conclusions. But the level of dishonesty on this one

923
00:48:26.480 --> 00:48:27.199
<v Speaker 2>was alarming.

924
00:48:27.280 --> 00:48:27.679
<v Speaker 4>I mean, the.

925
00:48:29.320 --> 00:48:32.039
<v Speaker 2>New York Times described the bombers, was it jars of

926
00:48:32.239 --> 00:48:33.480
<v Speaker 2>fuses and.

927
00:48:34.840 --> 00:48:37.320
<v Speaker 1>Spring, a little bit of glass and some some sprinkles

928
00:48:37.320 --> 00:48:40.880
<v Speaker 1>of sugar, and you know, and then little adule thumbtag.

929
00:48:41.320 --> 00:48:44.280
<v Speaker 2>I had this wonderful CNN piece which seems to have

930
00:48:44.320 --> 00:48:46.360
<v Speaker 2>falled everyone at the network because they've all been apologizing

931
00:48:46.400 --> 00:48:49.079
<v Speaker 2>one by one on Twitter, which said, you know, two

932
00:48:49.360 --> 00:48:55.280
<v Speaker 2>young men and the American teenage dream walked into New

933
00:48:55.360 --> 00:49:00.119
<v Speaker 2>York City on a fine day. They could have done anything,

934
00:49:00.639 --> 00:49:02.840
<v Speaker 2>but a few hours later they found themselves at the

935
00:49:02.840 --> 00:49:04.480
<v Speaker 2>heart of a terrorist incert.

936
00:49:04.559 --> 00:49:05.199
<v Speaker 4>They did it.

937
00:49:05.679 --> 00:49:06.760
<v Speaker 6>They did it.

938
00:49:06.840 --> 00:49:09.920
<v Speaker 2>They proclaimed their loyalty to Isis, and they said they

939
00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:11.800
<v Speaker 2>wanted to kill more people than it died at the

940
00:49:11.800 --> 00:49:15.159
<v Speaker 2>Boston marathon bomby. This wasn't a couple of guys on

941
00:49:15.199 --> 00:49:17.719
<v Speaker 2>their way who got irritated by the price of sandwiches

942
00:49:17.800 --> 00:49:18.920
<v Speaker 2>and suddenly hit someone.

943
00:49:19.440 --> 00:49:21.960
<v Speaker 4>My goodness me. And it's sinister.

944
00:49:22.159 --> 00:49:27.360
<v Speaker 2>It's truly sinister, because although I'm a big fan, obviously

945
00:49:27.400 --> 00:49:28.880
<v Speaker 2>of alternative.

946
00:49:28.280 --> 00:49:32.119
<v Speaker 4>Media and of the.

947
00:49:31.320 --> 00:49:36.119
<v Speaker 2>Internet and of lots of ways of getting around the mainstream,

948
00:49:36.840 --> 00:49:39.920
<v Speaker 2>the mainstream still exists, and people take their cues from

949
00:49:39.920 --> 00:49:43.960
<v Speaker 2>headlines and from blurbs, and I mean, the fact that

950
00:49:44.000 --> 00:49:46.880
<v Speaker 2>the press decided to cover this up is alarming. And

951
00:49:46.920 --> 00:49:51.000
<v Speaker 2>the final reason it's alarming is because there are people

952
00:49:51.039 --> 00:49:54.400
<v Speaker 2>out there who are wrong, who think that everything they

953
00:49:54.400 --> 00:49:57.039
<v Speaker 2>read is a lie. And when you go down that road,

954
00:49:57.119 --> 00:50:00.239
<v Speaker 2>you end up at Candy so Owens right. And and

955
00:50:00.480 --> 00:50:03.960
<v Speaker 2>the problem with this is that this is yet another

956
00:50:04.039 --> 00:50:07.679
<v Speaker 2>example of the actually being a deliberate lie. And the

957
00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:09.840
<v Speaker 2>more you do this, the less you fool the public,

958
00:50:09.840 --> 00:50:11.960
<v Speaker 2>the more you convince them everything you say is falsehood.

959
00:50:11.960 --> 00:50:15.239
<v Speaker 4>Actually it's not. And I thought for that reason it

960
00:50:15.280 --> 00:50:16.519
<v Speaker 4>was extra irresponsible.

961
00:50:18.480 --> 00:50:19.880
<v Speaker 1>Steve go ahead.

962
00:50:20.840 --> 00:50:26.039
<v Speaker 5>I am astounded that CNN, which looks to be about

963
00:50:26.079 --> 00:50:29.519
<v Speaker 5>to be acquired by David Ellison, who with their acquisition

964
00:50:29.559 --> 00:50:32.440
<v Speaker 5>of Paramount, installed Barry Weiss at CBS News, where she's

965
00:50:32.480 --> 00:50:34.599
<v Speaker 5>slowly making some changes for the better. I'm amazed that

966
00:50:34.599 --> 00:50:36.440
<v Speaker 5>there aren't some adults there who said we should at

967
00:50:36.480 --> 00:50:39.320
<v Speaker 5>least be a little bit careful. Instead, they assigned this

968
00:50:39.440 --> 00:50:43.920
<v Speaker 5>story to a reporter who has a degree in gender

969
00:50:44.039 --> 00:50:47.760
<v Speaker 5>studies from Berkeley and whose previous job before CNN was

970
00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:50.159
<v Speaker 5>with PACIFICA Radio in Los Angeles.

971
00:50:50.199 --> 00:50:53.400
<v Speaker 6>And if you don't know PACIFICA Radio, it's a public station,

972
00:50:53.480 --> 00:50:54.599
<v Speaker 6>but it's very left wing.

973
00:50:54.679 --> 00:50:56.960
<v Speaker 5>It's just way out there, and it actually had their

974
00:50:56.960 --> 00:50:59.800
<v Speaker 5>financial troubles over the last few years, which is deserved.

975
00:51:00.639 --> 00:51:03.400
<v Speaker 5>But at this point, I'm just saying, you know, I

976
00:51:03.440 --> 00:51:05.960
<v Speaker 5>don't even think CNN can be reformed. I think they

977
00:51:05.960 --> 00:51:07.760
<v Speaker 5>should just close it all down. I think most of

978
00:51:07.800 --> 00:51:10.480
<v Speaker 5>their viewership is now the captive audience at airports and

979
00:51:10.519 --> 00:51:13.440
<v Speaker 5>bars anyway, so I don't know how many real people

980
00:51:13.480 --> 00:51:16.719
<v Speaker 5>actually watch it anymore, or hand it over to what's

981
00:51:16.719 --> 00:51:20.039
<v Speaker 5>his name, Ken Jennings and let him run the thing.

982
00:51:21.199 --> 00:51:25.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah right, I share the sentiments that both of you

983
00:51:25.320 --> 00:51:31.119
<v Speaker 1>just described. And I'm still astonished actually that I got

984
00:51:31.159 --> 00:51:33.119
<v Speaker 1>most of my news on this from X. As a

985
00:51:33.119 --> 00:51:35.079
<v Speaker 1>matter of fact, I get most of my news on X,

986
00:51:35.360 --> 00:51:37.599
<v Speaker 1>which kind of makes me nervous. Now I've got a

987
00:51:37.599 --> 00:51:39.159
<v Speaker 1>lot of sources that I hit every day. Every morning,

988
00:51:39.159 --> 00:51:42.280
<v Speaker 1>I get up, I read the local paper online without charging,

989
00:51:42.519 --> 00:51:45.440
<v Speaker 1>without being paid charged for it. I add through Apple News,

990
00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:48.159
<v Speaker 1>I read the Telegraph. I read a variety of sources,

991
00:51:48.159 --> 00:51:49.679
<v Speaker 1>but a lot of the stuff that's right up to

992
00:51:49.719 --> 00:51:52.599
<v Speaker 1>the moment I get for becks and you have to sift,

993
00:51:52.679 --> 00:51:54.360
<v Speaker 1>and you have to judge, and you have to be

994
00:51:54.440 --> 00:51:56.719
<v Speaker 1>very careful. And that brings us to the last question

995
00:51:56.719 --> 00:51:58.519
<v Speaker 1>we're going to have here, which is when it comes

996
00:51:58.559 --> 00:52:00.239
<v Speaker 1>to the presentation of we're getting out here, and you

997
00:52:00.280 --> 00:52:02.880
<v Speaker 1>can't fake an event and say that guy never threw

998
00:52:02.960 --> 00:52:04.679
<v Speaker 1>I think when we knew that he threw it. But

999
00:52:04.840 --> 00:52:07.719
<v Speaker 1>AI and the influence of it, whether or not you

1000
00:52:07.800 --> 00:52:10.880
<v Speaker 1>think what you're seeing on your screens about this particular war,

1001
00:52:10.920 --> 00:52:13.119
<v Speaker 1>whether or not you regard everything that you are seeing

1002
00:52:13.119 --> 00:52:16.000
<v Speaker 1>as false until proved true, whether or not you're taking

1003
00:52:16.079 --> 00:52:19.559
<v Speaker 1>on a case by case basis, fog of war is

1004
00:52:19.559 --> 00:52:21.360
<v Speaker 1>what we always have. But how do you guys feel

1005
00:52:21.360 --> 00:52:24.320
<v Speaker 1>about the presentation of this one factoring in what you

1006
00:52:24.360 --> 00:52:25.039
<v Speaker 1>know about AI?

1007
00:52:27.320 --> 00:52:32.159
<v Speaker 5>Well, I am so many things are showing up on

1008
00:52:32.280 --> 00:52:35.119
<v Speaker 5>Twitter that have video, and some of it is so

1009
00:52:35.280 --> 00:52:38.519
<v Speaker 5>comically bad and fake that you wonder if that's on

1010
00:52:38.559 --> 00:52:42.159
<v Speaker 5>purpose that they're pranking us, right, and then other things

1011
00:52:42.400 --> 00:52:43.280
<v Speaker 5>you're not quite sure.

1012
00:52:43.840 --> 00:52:45.719
<v Speaker 6>I've been worried for quite a while that I think

1013
00:52:45.719 --> 00:52:46.760
<v Speaker 6>we're not far away.

1014
00:52:46.519 --> 00:52:50.719
<v Speaker 5>From the AI productions being so accurate that it's going

1015
00:52:50.760 --> 00:52:53.000
<v Speaker 5>to be really difficult to tell when they're fake, because

1016
00:52:53.280 --> 00:52:54.679
<v Speaker 5>I mean, people who do it well are going to

1017
00:52:54.760 --> 00:52:56.719
<v Speaker 5>make it, you know, ninety nine percent plausible and the

1018
00:52:56.719 --> 00:52:58.039
<v Speaker 5>one percent you slip in.

1019
00:53:00.079 --> 00:53:01.639
<v Speaker 6>And I don't know.

1020
00:53:01.960 --> 00:53:05.119
<v Speaker 5>I'm against regulations of these things, but I am kind

1021
00:53:05.159 --> 00:53:09.039
<v Speaker 5>of open to the idea that there needs to be

1022
00:53:09.119 --> 00:53:12.000
<v Speaker 5>some kind of watermark on AI productions or some bit

1023
00:53:12.000 --> 00:53:14.920
<v Speaker 5>of code so you can tell whether this is legitimate,

1024
00:53:15.039 --> 00:53:17.519
<v Speaker 5>unadulterated video.

1025
00:53:16.840 --> 00:53:18.519
<v Speaker 6>Or whether it has been altered in some way.

1026
00:53:18.800 --> 00:53:20.960
<v Speaker 5>I'm very hesitant about that idea, but I do think

1027
00:53:20.960 --> 00:53:22.880
<v Speaker 5>this is going to be a big problem going forward.

1028
00:53:23.519 --> 00:53:28.079
<v Speaker 1>Grow does Charles have any opinions?

1029
00:53:28.320 --> 00:53:32.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't think that the as much we can do

1030
00:53:32.079 --> 00:53:35.639
<v Speaker 2>about it, and I think that it's going to lead

1031
00:53:35.679 --> 00:53:41.559
<v Speaker 2>to some combination of people believing nothing and people being

1032
00:53:41.639 --> 00:53:44.880
<v Speaker 2>far more judicious in what they choose to read. I

1033
00:53:44.920 --> 00:53:49.119
<v Speaker 2>think that it will not destroy our culture. I think

1034
00:53:49.119 --> 00:53:52.159
<v Speaker 2>it will destroy some people within our culture, much as

1035
00:53:52.199 --> 00:53:56.199
<v Speaker 2>you keep hearing stories about older people on Facebook who

1036
00:53:56.320 --> 00:54:00.599
<v Speaker 2>literally can't distinguish. There was a video I saw a

1037
00:54:00.639 --> 00:54:03.639
<v Speaker 2>guy on a magic carpet taking down an American plane.

1038
00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:07.920
<v Speaker 2>Ye see this very right. We all saw it and

1039
00:54:07.960 --> 00:54:10.599
<v Speaker 2>said that's actually very funny. It's just that there are

1040
00:54:10.639 --> 00:54:13.639
<v Speaker 2>about a million people, it seems, on Facebook that said wow,

1041
00:54:13.679 --> 00:54:14.800
<v Speaker 2>look at the technology.

1042
00:54:15.559 --> 00:54:17.239
<v Speaker 4>So I think those people may be lost.

1043
00:54:17.280 --> 00:54:19.119
<v Speaker 2>But I think a lot of other people are going

1044
00:54:19.199 --> 00:54:21.400
<v Speaker 2>to be more judicious rather than less, and I think

1045
00:54:21.440 --> 00:54:26.800
<v Speaker 2>that they're going to start thinking more carefully about what

1046
00:54:27.519 --> 00:54:30.400
<v Speaker 2>they read and why, and in a sense that will

1047
00:54:30.400 --> 00:54:34.360
<v Speaker 2>take us back, not forward. The internet made it easy

1048
00:54:34.519 --> 00:54:36.920
<v Speaker 2>just to be passive. You watch as things go by,

1049
00:54:37.119 --> 00:54:39.760
<v Speaker 2>you don't really worry about where it came from. Somebody

1050
00:54:39.800 --> 00:54:42.199
<v Speaker 2>sends you a link, you click it. It wasn't the

1051
00:54:42.239 --> 00:54:45.119
<v Speaker 2>case in the fifties and the fifties people had a newspaper.

1052
00:54:45.119 --> 00:54:46.760
<v Speaker 2>They got to live it every single day, and they

1053
00:54:46.760 --> 00:54:49.480
<v Speaker 2>trusted it until they didn't. So I think there's going

1054
00:54:49.559 --> 00:54:51.880
<v Speaker 2>to be a return to that of sorts. But yes,

1055
00:54:51.880 --> 00:54:53.320
<v Speaker 2>there's also going to be a lot of chaos that

1056
00:54:53.320 --> 00:54:54.000
<v Speaker 2>will be very bad.

1057
00:54:54.960 --> 00:54:58.760
<v Speaker 1>It's a video of a rocket hitting an American battleship

1058
00:54:59.320 --> 00:55:02.599
<v Speaker 1>or aircraft. Unfortunately it was a Soyez booster from the

1059
00:55:02.679 --> 00:55:06.760
<v Speaker 1>seventies or those you know, those great flared engine nozzles,

1060
00:55:06.920 --> 00:55:10.119
<v Speaker 1>and the ship I think was Japanese, but it was

1061
00:55:10.159 --> 00:55:13.119
<v Speaker 1>being shared around at something. I mean, the credulity of people.

1062
00:55:13.360 --> 00:55:16.800
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I'm if you showed a video of Erica

1063
00:55:16.960 --> 00:55:19.840
<v Speaker 1>Kirk in Tel Aviv swinging from a skyscraper top like

1064
00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:22.400
<v Speaker 1>King Kong, Candice oh And would probably believe it, and

1065
00:55:22.880 --> 00:55:25.920
<v Speaker 1>the followers would think so Otherwise, Uh well, yeah, we'll

1066
00:55:25.960 --> 00:55:28.480
<v Speaker 1>just have to see I mean. And every time you

1067
00:55:28.519 --> 00:55:31.519
<v Speaker 1>see something now it's though, growk is this AI? And

1068
00:55:31.800 --> 00:55:34.480
<v Speaker 1>people trust? Win Grex says, yes, it appears to be

1069
00:55:34.519 --> 00:55:36.559
<v Speaker 1>so because it's shaky and grainy and the rest of it,

1070
00:55:36.639 --> 00:55:39.760
<v Speaker 1>and what you're actually seeing is something from you know,

1071
00:55:39.800 --> 00:55:43.519
<v Speaker 1>from the two thousand and three invasion of Iraq. Yes,

1072
00:55:43.920 --> 00:55:46.920
<v Speaker 1>be careful, trust, but verify. That's why we're here, of course,

1073
00:55:46.920 --> 00:55:48.800
<v Speaker 1>to say all those things that you can trust absolutely,

1074
00:55:48.800 --> 00:55:50.480
<v Speaker 1>because we know what we're talking about and we mean

1075
00:55:50.519 --> 00:55:54.079
<v Speaker 1>what we say. At least even when we just have

1076
00:55:54.119 --> 00:55:54.760
<v Speaker 1>we disagreed this.

1077
00:55:55.400 --> 00:55:57.480
<v Speaker 4>When we do, we're both write that's.

1078
00:55:57.400 --> 00:56:02.559
<v Speaker 1>Right, that's right. We're absolutely correct Schrodinger's podcast hosts. You might, however,

1079
00:56:02.599 --> 00:56:05.239
<v Speaker 1>if you want folks to go to Apple Podcasts and say,

1080
00:56:05.239 --> 00:56:07.719
<v Speaker 1>my gosh, those guys are always right, even when they disagree,

1081
00:56:07.760 --> 00:56:10.039
<v Speaker 1>even when they're wrong, they're right in a charming fashion

1082
00:56:10.039 --> 00:56:11.880
<v Speaker 1>and give us five stars or even better, you might

1083
00:56:11.920 --> 00:56:14.239
<v Speaker 1>want to bet a Ricochet if you haven't already. I mean,

1084
00:56:14.639 --> 00:56:17.519
<v Speaker 1>how did you find this podcast anyway without going there? Right?

1085
00:56:17.800 --> 00:56:20.519
<v Speaker 1>And aren't you a non member just curious what goes

1086
00:56:20.559 --> 00:56:23.000
<v Speaker 1>on behind the curtain, aren't you when you click that

1087
00:56:23.199 --> 00:56:27.199
<v Speaker 1>member site button, frustrated when you can't go and see

1088
00:56:27.199 --> 00:56:29.760
<v Speaker 1>the wonderful conversations happening there. Well, it's cheap, it's easy,

1089
00:56:29.800 --> 00:56:31.840
<v Speaker 1>and if you sign up, you can contribute, and you

1090
00:56:31.920 --> 00:56:35.480
<v Speaker 1>can write essays and let's stand alongside everybody else's and

1091
00:56:35.559 --> 00:56:38.840
<v Speaker 1>you can comment, which is what keeps Ricochet nice and

1092
00:56:38.920 --> 00:56:42.000
<v Speaker 1>civil and decent because there's a code of contact. You know,

1093
00:56:42.039 --> 00:56:44.679
<v Speaker 1>you can't can't be the jerk you are elsewhere in

1094
00:56:44.719 --> 00:56:47.119
<v Speaker 1>the internet and we all behave. Does that mean it's

1095
00:56:47.199 --> 00:56:49.719
<v Speaker 1>dull and boring and pinkies outstretched as we have a

1096
00:56:49.719 --> 00:56:51.519
<v Speaker 1>cup of tit? No, not at all. Go there and

1097
00:56:51.559 --> 00:56:54.119
<v Speaker 1>find out for yourself. At ricochet dot com. Gentlemen, it's

1098
00:56:54.119 --> 00:56:56.159
<v Speaker 1>been a pleasure as ever. We will convene again next week.

1099
00:56:56.239 --> 00:56:58.320
<v Speaker 1>Lord knows what will happen between them. But to Steven

1100
00:56:58.360 --> 00:56:59.960
<v Speaker 1>and California, where are you, Stephen.

1101
00:56:59.679 --> 00:57:01.599
<v Speaker 6>By the way, I'm in Toledo, Ohio today.

1102
00:57:02.360 --> 00:57:02.719
<v Speaker 4>Ah.

1103
00:57:02.760 --> 00:57:06.480
<v Speaker 1>Well, sometimes considered, I'd rather be that yes right to

1104
00:57:06.639 --> 00:57:10.679
<v Speaker 1>let yes well, indeed, enjoy the glorious Spanish arrivdor. Otherwise

1105
00:57:10.760 --> 00:57:13.239
<v Speaker 1>there and Charles in Florida, we hats off to you.

1106
00:57:13.480 --> 00:57:16.400
<v Speaker 1>Me here in Minnesota, which is at the moment calm

1107
00:57:16.440 --> 00:57:20.719
<v Speaker 1>and tending trending, leaning towards spring, and also expected to

1108
00:57:20.719 --> 00:57:23.239
<v Speaker 1>get twelve inches of snow by the weekend. Shoot me now, anyway,

1109
00:57:23.239 --> 00:57:25.239
<v Speaker 1>it's been fun. We'll see everybody in the comments. At

1110
00:57:25.320 --> 00:57:34.519
<v Speaker 1>Ricochet four point zero ah now bye bye Ricochet, Ye

1111
00:57:36.559 --> 00:57:37.559
<v Speaker 1>join the conversation