1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:01,919
Speaker 1: When I mentioned political violence, I just saw him on

2
00:00:01,919 --> 00:00:04,360
the zoom, look like like a dodger. Here's his name

3
00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:10,880
or a particular or the owner's whistle. Yes, let me

4
00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:12,679
assert my family.

5
00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:19,879
Speaker 2: That's the only thing we have to finish.

6
00:00:19,199 --> 00:00:23,600
Speaker 1: So it's the Ricchet Podcast with Stephen Hayward and Charles C. W. Cook.

7
00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:25,440
I'm James Lylyx. The day we're going to talk to

8
00:00:25,679 --> 00:00:29,960
Noah Rothman about well what else the war, But there's more,

9
00:00:30,079 --> 00:00:31,600
so let's absolve the podcast.

10
00:00:31,719 --> 00:00:35,920
Speaker 3: Their navy is gone, twenty four ships in three days.

11
00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:42,000
It's a lot of ships. Their anti aircraft weapons are gone,

12
00:00:42,679 --> 00:00:46,840
all of their airplanes are gone, the communications are gone,

13
00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:51,159
missiles are gun launches are gone.

14
00:00:51,719 --> 00:00:53,359
Speaker 4: Other than that, they're doing quite well.

15
00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,039
Speaker 1: Welcome everybody. This is the Ricochet Podcast, number seven hundred

16
00:00:57,039 --> 00:00:59,679
and eighty. I'm James Lylyx and I'm joined, of course

17
00:00:59,759 --> 00:01:01,960
by even Hayward in California or somewhere else in the world,

18
00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:04,200
and Charles C. Cook not on the scepter dial but

19
00:01:04,239 --> 00:01:10,560
in Florida. Gentlemen, to welcome, Hello, good morning. There were

20
00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:14,879
other understated almost English there. Hello Hello from from from Charlie.

21
00:01:14,879 --> 00:01:19,079
And so since you are indeed from the from Blightie.

22
00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:21,000
We have to talk about one of the most consequential

23
00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:25,640
issues of the week, and I'm not kidding Britain's decision

24
00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:29,640
to scrap all of the human beings from their money

25
00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:32,560
and go to important British things like the British Tree,

26
00:01:32,599 --> 00:01:36,640
which I think is the large, and badgers and and

27
00:01:36,799 --> 00:01:40,079
and likewise, and it's it's causing something of a of

28
00:01:40,159 --> 00:01:44,920
a tempest in a teapot. It goes with abolishing jury

29
00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,359
trials for most people, and getting rid of hereditary lords

30
00:01:48,359 --> 00:01:49,799
and the rest of it. All of a sudden, these

31
00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,879
traditions stripped away. But there's something about getting rid of

32
00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,359
Churchill and replacing him with a badger that has struck

33
00:01:56,519 --> 00:02:00,239
a nerve in what seems to be a small, a

34
00:02:00,439 --> 00:02:05,319
dying reflex reaction British culture. So you wrote about this,

35
00:02:05,599 --> 00:02:09,039
I expect and tell us what do you think of it?

36
00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:12,120
Speaker 2: Well, I did write about this, You're right. What do

37
00:02:12,159 --> 00:02:18,000
I think about it? I think that it is a

38
00:02:18,199 --> 00:02:22,599
sign of chronic under confidence and the rejection of national

39
00:02:22,599 --> 00:02:24,319
identity is what I think.

40
00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:29,800
Speaker 4: I think that if you look back at.

41
00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:34,800
Speaker 2: The history of the British banknote, you will find all

42
00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:41,560
manner of impressive people having been depicted thereon you will

43
00:02:41,599 --> 00:02:45,680
see Shakespeare and Jane Austin and Florence Nightingale and James

44
00:02:45,719 --> 00:02:48,960
Watt and Winston Churchill and Admiral Nelson and the Duke

45
00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:55,319
of Wellington and so forth, and those people I think

46
00:02:55,599 --> 00:02:59,080
are what people think about when they think of Britain,

47
00:02:59,199 --> 00:03:00,319
far more than.

48
00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:01,439
Speaker 4: Say a hedgehog.

49
00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:08,639
Speaker 2: I have nothing in particular against the wildlife of Great Britain,

50
00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:13,319
but it's not what Britain's known for, is it, And

51
00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:18,560
it's not particularly interesting relative to other countries. Every country

52
00:03:19,759 --> 00:03:25,319
has wildlife, but not every country has Shakespeare. So if

53
00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,439
they had said, do you know, we're a little bit

54
00:03:28,879 --> 00:03:35,360
monomaniacal in our money art, and so we're gonna rotate

55
00:03:35,759 --> 00:03:39,039
Britain's heroes, I think that would have been defensible.

56
00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,240
Speaker 4: But they didn't do that. What they said is it

57
00:03:43,319 --> 00:03:44,240
is overdue.

58
00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:48,879
Speaker 2: What a word that we take those heroes, and I

59
00:03:48,879 --> 00:03:52,840
include Jane Austin, Shakespeare and James Watt in that category.

60
00:03:53,919 --> 00:03:56,199
We're going to take them off the money completely and

61
00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:59,120
replace them with no other people. And the reason for

62
00:03:59,199 --> 00:04:02,039
this seems quite to me, and that is that animals

63
00:04:02,039 --> 00:04:05,400
are uncontroversial. Animals are an abstraction. I know people like

64
00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,680
their own dog, but when you see a badger, you

65
00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:09,840
don't say, oh it's terry.

66
00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:11,599
Speaker 4: You say it's just a badger.

67
00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,960
Speaker 2: But with a person, you have to think about that

68
00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:21,560
person as a sinful human, an imperfect human, somebody who

69
00:04:21,639 --> 00:04:24,199
may have had some views of his era that we

70
00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:25,120
don't like today.

71
00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:27,519
Speaker 4: And I just don't think the British.

72
00:04:27,199 --> 00:04:33,439
Speaker 2: At the moment are courageous or sophisticated or adult enough

73
00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:36,600
to do that. And so the moment that someone says, well,

74
00:04:36,639 --> 00:04:40,240
Florence Nightiger probably had some really weird views about then

75
00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:42,160
they say, oh, we took her off the money because

76
00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:46,439
someone has to. No, that's not what you do. You say, yeah,

77
00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:48,439
but that's not why we know her. And I'll finished

78
00:04:48,439 --> 00:04:51,959
with this. About ten years ago there was this campaign

79
00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:56,680
to get Nelson's column removed from Trafalgar Square, and these

80
00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:57,079
things have.

81
00:04:57,079 --> 00:04:59,279
Speaker 4: Been there so long they are literally.

82
00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:04,839
Speaker 2: Named after Admiral Nelson and his most famous moment. And

83
00:05:04,959 --> 00:05:09,240
the argument was that Nelson had some pretty horrible views

84
00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:11,839
about slavery, which he actually did for a short period

85
00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:17,360
of time. And my rejoinder, which I wrote up, was yeah,

86
00:05:17,399 --> 00:05:21,160
but that's not why he's famous. I don't think it's

87
00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:26,199
particularly problematic if outside of a courthouse has happened. Here

88
00:05:26,199 --> 00:05:29,160
in Jacksonville a few years ago, a statue of Alexander

89
00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:33,360
Stevens is removed because Alexander Stephens's whole thing, the thing

90
00:05:33,399 --> 00:05:36,120
for which he is known and famous, is black people

91
00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:39,040
aren't equal and can't be, and the United States should,

92
00:05:39,079 --> 00:05:44,040
as its cornerstone institution, celebrate slavery. That's why his name

93
00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,120
is in the books. But that's not true of Nelson,

94
00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:48,279
and it's not true of any of the people on

95
00:05:48,319 --> 00:05:51,279
the money. Maybe Winston Churchill had a few quirks he did.

96
00:05:51,319 --> 00:05:53,480
Maybe he had some views on race, although he was

97
00:05:53,519 --> 00:05:55,680
actually pretty progressive for his time, to be honest. But

98
00:05:55,720 --> 00:05:57,759
maybe he had some views on race that today we

99
00:05:57,879 --> 00:06:00,839
might go at. But that's not why he's known. He's

100
00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,000
known for saving the world. So I think this is insane,

101
00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:05,959
But I think it is very sad because I think

102
00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,800
what Britain is essentially said is that it wishes to

103
00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,279
denude itself of all that makes it Britain and instead

104
00:06:12,319 --> 00:06:14,319
point to things that don't make it Britain but just

105
00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:15,680
happened to be there.

106
00:06:17,079 --> 00:06:20,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, So I do have this prediction for you Charlie,

107
00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,800
which is from the manager of Animals.

108
00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:24,120
Speaker 6: That may pick from.

109
00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,759
Speaker 5: I have a hunch they will omit the bulldog for

110
00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:29,800
the obvious reason, right, that's always a symbol. Well it

111
00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:31,959
might remind people of Churchill if you put a bulldog

112
00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:32,839
on the pound note.

113
00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:33,120
Speaker 3: Right.

114
00:06:33,959 --> 00:06:37,199
Speaker 6: And you know a lot of comments on Twitter has been.

115
00:06:37,079 --> 00:06:40,319
Speaker 5: Boy, the British ruling class really hates the country these days.

116
00:06:40,319 --> 00:06:43,560
And I think I'm increasingly believing that may be literally true.

117
00:06:44,319 --> 00:06:47,399
Speaker 6: But I also think this is the logical next step for.

118
00:06:47,439 --> 00:06:51,920
Speaker 5: The radical egalitarianism that you know, intellectual circles has started with,

119
00:06:52,639 --> 00:06:55,480
you know, in history many decades ago of rejecting the

120
00:06:55,519 --> 00:06:58,759
Great Man theory of history and you know, the rise

121
00:06:58,759 --> 00:07:01,319
of social history, which is, you know, just a derivative

122
00:07:01,319 --> 00:07:04,120
of Marxism what drives history or all the social forces

123
00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,680
and materialism and not Napoleon or de gaul or Churchill

124
00:07:07,759 --> 00:07:08,800
or Franklin Roosevelt.

125
00:07:08,879 --> 00:07:09,040
Speaker 1: Right.

126
00:07:09,079 --> 00:07:11,360
Speaker 6: They hate that because that.

127
00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,160
Speaker 5: Those examples of human excellence, whether you agree or disagree

128
00:07:14,199 --> 00:07:18,600
with their acts, are an implicit rebuke to the sort

129
00:07:18,639 --> 00:07:21,920
of flattening gallitarianism of the radical left for decades now.

130
00:07:21,959 --> 00:07:24,439
So it's going to come to America sooner or later.

131
00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,240
I can't believe we still have some of the people

132
00:07:27,279 --> 00:07:28,920
we do. I mean, it was Grant still on the

133
00:07:28,959 --> 00:07:31,519
fifty dollars bill. I think I should look.

134
00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,639
Speaker 6: But it's the Jefferson's on the two dollar bill.

135
00:07:34,759 --> 00:07:37,560
Speaker 5: My goodness, he was the prime offender and slavery and

136
00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:39,560
you know, raped as slaves and all the other stuff.

137
00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:41,959
You hear that that's the most important things about Jefferson.

138
00:07:41,959 --> 00:07:44,800
Now we're told right, so it'll it'll come here, I think,

139
00:07:45,279 --> 00:07:46,720
or there'll be a motion for it, at least.

140
00:07:47,079 --> 00:07:49,839
Speaker 2: I saw some statistic the other day that said that

141
00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,480
eighty five percent or something of all the two dollar

142
00:07:52,519 --> 00:07:55,959
bills are in strip clubs.

143
00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:56,759
Speaker 4: Poor Jefferson.

144
00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:02,879
Speaker 1: Well, when I saw this story, I also read elsewhere

145
00:08:03,279 --> 00:08:05,079
that one of the reasons that they were doing this

146
00:08:05,199 --> 00:08:08,800
was to avoid giving offense. They didn't specify that, but

147
00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:10,560
it made you think that perhaps the depiction of the

148
00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,120
human form might be the human face the visage might

149
00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:18,079
be offensive to some people, that they're anticipating that objection

150
00:08:18,199 --> 00:08:20,199
in the future, to which you want to say to people, look,

151
00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:22,800
this is British culture, pound sand or quid sand or

152
00:08:22,839 --> 00:08:25,319
whatever you wish, that this is who we are and

153
00:08:25,319 --> 00:08:27,160
that we are going to continue to do this. But

154
00:08:27,319 --> 00:08:31,680
when Charlie mentioned Tofalgar Square, yes, I mean it's taking

155
00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:33,919
down Nelson's column is not something I have in the cards,

156
00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,960
but I wouldn't be surprised because there is in that

157
00:08:37,039 --> 00:08:39,600
space a famous empty plinth I think it's called the

158
00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:44,240
fourth plinth, that tack down the corners of the square.

159
00:08:44,279 --> 00:08:46,759
One of them is empty, and it's constantly being used

160
00:08:46,799 --> 00:08:51,320
for new art. And the new art is generally meretricious, scolding,

161
00:08:51,799 --> 00:08:57,399
ugly celebrating any sort of current days zeroism, and it's

162
00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,679
never up to snuff with the rest of the stuff

163
00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:03,399
on the corners, which is classical and British and full

164
00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:05,159
of lions and you know, all the rest of the

165
00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,960
things that people expect out of their British statuary. And

166
00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,879
so the whole culture seems to be pushed towards being

167
00:09:10,919 --> 00:09:13,759
an empty plinth on which the leaders can PLoP whatever

168
00:09:13,759 --> 00:09:16,600
they want at the moment in order to rewrite the

169
00:09:16,639 --> 00:09:19,639
past and usher us into the glorious new future. And

170
00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,200
what I don't understand is the roots of I don't

171
00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:28,279
get why they would be so so uncomfortable with their

172
00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,039
own culture that they find the need time and again

173
00:09:31,639 --> 00:09:34,679
to make these conspicuous public efforts to undo it. If

174
00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,320
they wished, a lot could be accomplished on the labor

175
00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,159
and the leftist agenda without these things that stand out,

176
00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,919
but like big red, flaring lit flags that they get

177
00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,279
people's backup. But as we've talked from time to time

178
00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:48,440
to time, does it matter really if people's backs are

179
00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,039
gotten up in how many backs actually are there gotten up?

180
00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:53,519
I know a fellow, you know, one of my friends

181
00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:55,879
in England as as British as you can get. He

182
00:09:56,279 --> 00:09:59,720
bought Tony Hancock's hat from an old television show that

183
00:09:59,759 --> 00:10:04,480
has a glass case. He has a British minor a

184
00:10:04,519 --> 00:10:07,720
card in his driveway to the core. But I can't

185
00:10:07,759 --> 00:10:10,600
see them actually doing anything about this or getting a

186
00:10:10,639 --> 00:10:13,440
bit upset about it, because what is one to do.

187
00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:16,399
Life in the village goes on, and a piece with

188
00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:18,519
what we saw about their participation in the war with Ron,

189
00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:22,279
that the whole British spine, the whole British glory of

190
00:10:22,279 --> 00:10:24,279
the Navy, it just seems to have evaporated. The special

191
00:10:24,279 --> 00:10:29,039
relationship is gone, and I again despair. But again I'm

192
00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,080
here and it's not my country, and perhaps I should

193
00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:35,799
just divest myself of those emotional feelings. Huh.

194
00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:39,039
Speaker 5: Well, can I give listeners a book recommendation on this?

195
00:10:39,639 --> 00:10:41,879
You know, Roger Scrutin had that great phrase about how

196
00:10:41,879 --> 00:10:45,679
we live at a time with a dominant culture of repudiation.

197
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,360
And one of my favorite books about the whole European

198
00:10:48,399 --> 00:10:50,440
wider scene, I mean, Douglas Murray's written about this, but

199
00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,039
as an older book from ten to fifteen years ago,

200
00:10:53,159 --> 00:10:56,279
is The Tyranny of Guilt. I love the title Tyranny

201
00:10:56,440 --> 00:11:00,399
by a French writer named Pascal Bruckner, and I've met

202
00:11:00,399 --> 00:11:01,879
this guy a couple of times. What I like about

203
00:11:01,919 --> 00:11:04,399
him is he was one of those radical students on

204
00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,639
the barricades in Paris in May of sixty eight, which

205
00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:11,080
is still you know, a big Americans don't really appreciate this,

206
00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,679
how big a deal that was in France. Still today

207
00:11:13,919 --> 00:11:16,200
is a factor in French politics in ways that I

208
00:11:16,279 --> 00:11:19,799
think are beyond most Americans to know. And he his

209
00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:23,320
book is a terrific attack on the insidiousness of the

210
00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:26,240
self imposed guilt of the European culture today. And he's

211
00:11:26,279 --> 00:11:29,559
still very much a social democrat and as ordinary political economy,

212
00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:31,960
you might say so anyway, it's and he's a splendid

213
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,960
writer if you like that French style that they often have.

214
00:11:35,879 --> 00:11:38,159
Speaker 1: Do you think that's what's driving a Charnally guilt or

215
00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:42,879
is it just this sort of this late sixties eternal

216
00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,879
desire to repudiate the past but to make this glorious.

217
00:11:47,039 --> 00:11:47,200
Speaker 3: Yeah.

218
00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:49,559
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot that's driving it. I think

219
00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:56,480
part of it is leftism, which Steve says doesn't like

220
00:11:56,879 --> 00:11:59,720
the great man theory and therefore doesn't like great men.

221
00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:05,440
I think some of it's immigration. The British have persuaded

222
00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,240
themselves as of some in this country, but it's less

223
00:12:08,279 --> 00:12:13,320
prevalent that the way you welcome.

224
00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:14,000
Speaker 4: Immigrants is to.

225
00:12:15,879 --> 00:12:20,840
Speaker 2: Remove your own culture, which is weird given that the

226
00:12:20,879 --> 00:12:22,320
immigrants largely move.

227
00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,320
Speaker 4: To places because of that culture.

228
00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:28,320
Speaker 2: That's a really strange reaction to say, welcome to Britain,

229
00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:31,799
which you want to be in, rather than Pakistan.

230
00:12:31,919 --> 00:12:35,000
Speaker 4: Whatever. We'll get rid of it, don't worry.

231
00:12:36,919 --> 00:12:42,360
Speaker 2: Then there's the stupid racial bean counting which we have

232
00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:45,480
here as well. All those people I mentioned earlier, they're

233
00:12:45,519 --> 00:12:47,799
rather white, aren't they. Well, yes, that's what you'll get

234
00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,720
on an island that is still ninety percent white and

235
00:12:50,919 --> 00:12:52,960
twenty years ago is ninety five percent white, and two

236
00:12:53,039 --> 00:12:55,039
hundred years ago was one hundred percent white.

237
00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:59,000
Speaker 4: If you're going to.

238
00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:03,039
Speaker 2: To a memorial for great victorians, probably aren't going to

239
00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:09,039
be too many Hispanics among them in London. And then

240
00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,960
there's the final part of it, which is that the

241
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:17,159
British elites don't actually like Britain very much. I never

242
00:13:17,279 --> 00:13:23,960
really have, and they are finally getting their revenge. What

243
00:13:24,039 --> 00:13:27,159
really alarmed me, though, James, was that the polling on

244
00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:32,200
this seemed to be confirmatory. I saw that sixty percent

245
00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,080
to thirty two of British people who were asked and

246
00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:38,120
I don't know what the question said, said that they

247
00:13:38,159 --> 00:13:41,240
would rather have animals on the money than people. So

248
00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,799
I can't quite blame this on, you know, the labor

249
00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:50,600
government or Islington or what you will. This does seem

250
00:13:50,639 --> 00:13:52,279
to be a general cultural malaise.

251
00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:55,919
Speaker 1: Well then they'll get their money with the Budgies on it.

252
00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,200
All I can say is this it's probably continuation of

253
00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,399
an insidious planned to get rid of money or together

254
00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:04,120
and its institute of digital currency. Because these days I

255
00:14:04,159 --> 00:14:07,240
hate British money. It's plastic, it doesn't fold right, it

256
00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:09,879
slips around in your pocket. I don't like it. And

257
00:14:09,919 --> 00:14:12,960
if they make it so esthetically unpleasing and unpleasing to

258
00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,240
in a tactile fashion, then people will just say, oh, yes,

259
00:14:15,279 --> 00:14:17,919
Heaven's sakes, bring on that digital currency. Or they will

260
00:14:17,919 --> 00:14:21,480
say bring on noelh Rothman, Right, that's what I'm gonna do.

261
00:14:21,639 --> 00:14:24,360
Noah Senior writer a National Review where he writes about

262
00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:27,480
well everything, especially you know, foreign affairs and stuff we

263
00:14:27,879 --> 00:14:29,720
have going on from time to time. Is the author

264
00:14:29,759 --> 00:14:32,600
of Unjust, The Rise of the New Puritans and the

265
00:14:32,679 --> 00:14:37,399
upcoming Blood and Progress a century of left wing violence.

266
00:14:37,759 --> 00:14:40,320
And we'll talk about that, but first welcome Noah.

267
00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:42,240
Speaker 7: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

268
00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:45,679
Speaker 1: James, all right, a recent piece from you, what's gone

269
00:14:45,799 --> 00:14:48,720
right in the Iran War if you listen to the press,

270
00:14:48,759 --> 00:14:51,519
of course, it's just been an excuse for wasting money

271
00:14:51,559 --> 00:14:55,159
on lobster lobster gate, lobster gate being the story of

272
00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:57,720
the day, not the targeted assassination of the guys are

273
00:14:57,759 --> 00:14:58,480
doing checkpoints.

274
00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:02,200
Speaker 8: But see, there does seem to be an assumption abroad

275
00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:07,360
that Pete hag Seth himself can consume seven million dollars

276
00:15:07,759 --> 00:15:11,120
worth of lobster and steak. I accept the challenge. If

277
00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:11,960
that is the premise.

278
00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,000
Speaker 1: Oh no, he's been splashing around a giant Scrooge McDuck

279
00:15:15,159 --> 00:15:17,480
vault that is filled to the brim with steak and

280
00:15:17,519 --> 00:15:20,000
lobster tails. So let's start with what's going right. We

281
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:21,679
were told a couple of days ago that there's something

282
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,320
new on route that it was pager like in its

283
00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:26,919
depth and its scope, and its surprise was that the

284
00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,600
ability that we have, or Israel has, or both seems

285
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,679
to be to use drones to track individual guys where

286
00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,200
they live, hit their checkpoints, get them as they're taking

287
00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,240
out the garbage. What's the most recent thing that's gone right.

288
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,759
Speaker 8: Let's say, well, I have seen those reports, and I'm

289
00:15:41,759 --> 00:15:44,120
not entirely sure if those are happening now or we're

290
00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:47,559
only just getting video of them happening recently. The theater

291
00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:51,039
is opaque, and there's we have to be humble about

292
00:15:51,039 --> 00:15:54,480
what we can assess in real time. However, we'll step

293
00:15:54,519 --> 00:15:55,840
back a little bit and take a look at this

294
00:15:55,879 --> 00:15:58,360
campaign on its twelfth day, which is where we're at

295
00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,759
right now. I've been following this for the better part

296
00:16:01,759 --> 00:16:04,120
of twenty five years. We've been war gaming scenarios with

297
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,799
the all out regime change war with Iran for the

298
00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,559
better part of three decades, and all of those scenarios

299
00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:14,279
were dire. The notion being that Iran would activate its

300
00:16:14,279 --> 00:16:18,120
sleeper cell terrorist organizations HESBLA or otherwise in Latin America,

301
00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,039
Europe and North America not an idle threat. We consistently

302
00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,399
and regularly arrest has below linked operatives, charged them and

303
00:16:24,559 --> 00:16:28,480
imprisoned them for acting on orders from Iran to execute

304
00:16:28,519 --> 00:16:31,919
terrorist attacks inside the United States or target American civil

305
00:16:32,159 --> 00:16:35,159
heacivic leaders, civil servants, and even the President himself with murder.

306
00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:40,240
Those were expected to execute dramatic attacks on soft targets,

307
00:16:40,279 --> 00:16:42,519
kill a lot of civilians in the process, and frustrate

308
00:16:42,759 --> 00:16:48,320
our activities domestically. Likewise, we were expecting dramatics cyber attacks

309
00:16:48,759 --> 00:16:53,120
on commercial ventures, in particular, making financial transactions difficult, frustrating

310
00:16:53,159 --> 00:16:56,679
operations for commercial ventures as well as government ventures. And

311
00:16:57,039 --> 00:16:59,399
we were expecting that the Iranian regime would mine the

312
00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:03,720
Strait of Hermus. The Straight of Hermus is presently closed

313
00:17:03,759 --> 00:17:06,440
to traffic quote unquote, but it's not because of an

314
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,759
abundance of mines in the strait. The threat of ballistic missiles,

315
00:17:09,799 --> 00:17:12,640
short range ballistic missiles, or even fast attack boats that

316
00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:14,599
would swarm a boat and try to sink it. That

317
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,240
was another scenario that was a very much a live

318
00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:20,720
prospect in these wargames taking out a US warship. That way,

319
00:17:21,279 --> 00:17:22,880
the strait is not closed because of that. The strait

320
00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:26,200
is closed because of a financial artifact. Insurance insurance makes

321
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,720
it too difficult for these ships to cross the strait.

322
00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,720
That is much easier to resolve than it would be

323
00:17:32,839 --> 00:17:37,119
if we were dealing with a thoroughly mined straight And

324
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:41,039
of course, a regime change war was forecast to require

325
00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,319
upwards of a million US combat troops, not even support troops.

326
00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,200
Combat troops of Iranian cities were expected to be in

327
00:17:47,279 --> 00:17:50,119
rubble a million casualties on all sides of this conflict,

328
00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,799
at least before combat operations were over, after which you

329
00:17:52,799 --> 00:17:56,079
couldn't be sure that the regime itself would survived. Some

330
00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:59,000
rump regime might have survived, and there's probably likely to

331
00:17:59,039 --> 00:18:04,359
be pockets of instability and ungoverned areas inside the Iranian

332
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,880
land mass which would incubate transnational Islamis terrorist groups. So

333
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,480
that's the baseline from which we're starting and on twelve day,

334
00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,440
day twelve of this war, you don't see anything like

335
00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:20,240
those kind of outcomes. In fact, we've achieved air superiority,

336
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:24,799
if not supremacy. We're standing away from these exquisite standoff munitions,

337
00:18:24,839 --> 00:18:28,200
you know, rockets, long range rockets in favor of because

338
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:30,559
we have command of the skis in favor of gravity.

339
00:18:30,599 --> 00:18:32,960
Bombs which are fitted with jay dams make them precision

340
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:36,240
guided bombs. They're a lot more abundant, a lot less expensive,

341
00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:38,720
and to make it easier to achieve our objectives. The

342
00:18:38,759 --> 00:18:42,680
Iranian Navy is fodder now for artificial reefs at the

343
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:46,799
bottom of the Persian Gulf. All of their Solomoni class

344
00:18:46,839 --> 00:18:53,440
ships are dead. Their fleet of mine laying boats is

345
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:58,039
largely in ruins. We've struck ten of their eighteen airfields

346
00:18:58,079 --> 00:19:00,920
when last I checked. Their ballistic missile capabilities are down

347
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,359
about ninety percent. Their missile launchers are down sixty percent.

348
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:09,119
We're loitering over these missile cities where these missiles are entombed,

349
00:19:09,559 --> 00:19:12,279
and we're either striking the entrances or if we monitor

350
00:19:12,279 --> 00:19:15,759
and see activity, we strike them, rendering these missile silos

351
00:19:15,839 --> 00:19:20,039
inoperable until such time as a massive penetrating ordinance hits them,

352
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:23,000
digs two hundred feet down and blows them up. We

353
00:19:23,079 --> 00:19:28,240
have incredible command of the battle space. What everybody's concerned

354
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:32,799
about is what happens with these asymmetric attacks moving forward.

355
00:19:32,839 --> 00:19:36,519
Iranian drone capabilities are not neutralized. And because there was

356
00:19:36,559 --> 00:19:41,759
some vestigial hostility in the Pentagon to Voladimir Zelensky in Kiev,

357
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,279
we did not purchase and should have these really cheap

358
00:19:44,319 --> 00:19:46,519
interceptor drones that they developed in Key, which would have

359
00:19:46,519 --> 00:19:49,559
helped us take down these Shaheeds. But yesterday they managed

360
00:19:49,559 --> 00:19:52,200
to launch all of thirty nine Shaheed drones and get

361
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,200
through our American air defenses and layered air defenses around

362
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:55,559
the Gulf.

363
00:19:55,599 --> 00:19:56,400
Speaker 7: Now that's not nothing.

364
00:19:56,599 --> 00:19:59,440
Speaker 8: It hits real targets, it hits infrastructure, and it creates

365
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,960
big headaches the Gulf. But we're not talking about this

366
00:20:02,079 --> 00:20:05,839
massive onslaught. These are headaches, you know. And we just

367
00:20:05,839 --> 00:20:09,519
see these videos and they look really devastating and dramatic,

368
00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:12,359
but they are deal with the ball and they're nothing

369
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,799
even remotely light what we expected. The question is always

370
00:20:15,799 --> 00:20:18,359
compared to what and compared to what in this campaign

371
00:20:18,839 --> 00:20:22,880
was a devastating conflict that would really chase in both

372
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,039
sides of the equation and just not what we're seeing.

373
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,359
Speaker 5: So no, let me jump in here and let's tick

374
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:34,880
off a few of these factors individually. I'm a little surprised,

375
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,160
and there's reasons to think that maybe Trump and his

376
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,400
people hadn't fought the matter through my first data point

377
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:46,319
on that Trump reversing course on releases from strategic Petroleum

378
00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:48,799
reserve and certain other things. I'm a little surprised that

379
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,519
we didn't have a more forward strategy on the potential

380
00:20:52,519 --> 00:20:54,119
closure of the Straits of more news.

381
00:20:54,519 --> 00:20:56,279
Speaker 6: You mentioned mining. I'm thinking, is I'm so old.

382
00:20:56,279 --> 00:20:59,039
Speaker 5: I remember nineteen eighty seven when Iran tried to close

383
00:20:59,039 --> 00:21:01,440
the straits with mine They had I guess to be

384
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:03,839
a fifty thousand minds then, and we, along with our

385
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:07,880
British partners, who then had a navy, very effectively squashed that.

386
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:10,839
And you know that's back when they you know, we

387
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,039
did have a ship hit by an Irocky missile by mistake, right, and.

388
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,279
Speaker 6: We shot down and running an airliner by mistake, so

389
00:21:16,559 --> 00:21:19,160
you know, flog of war. That's sort of very tiny

390
00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:20,200
conflict compared with now.

391
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:24,079
Speaker 5: But I'm a little surprised that there isn't more capacity

392
00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,880
to stop Iran from harassing the Strait.

393
00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:32,640
Speaker 8: Yeah, so there is military capacity. We have contingencies developed

394
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:34,720
over the course of decades, as you said, and executed

395
00:21:34,759 --> 00:21:38,960
them forty years ago in the effort to reopen the strait.

396
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,880
We know what Iran's plan is and how they execute that,

397
00:21:42,039 --> 00:21:45,599
and we've sought to interdict that and had relative success.

398
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,480
It's my understanding, and I could be wrong, because again,

399
00:21:48,559 --> 00:21:51,599
the battlefield isn't opaque, and we only know what we

400
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,119
know and what people are telling us. But it doesn't

401
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:56,319
seem to me from what I'm gleaning that the strait

402
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:59,839
is closed because it is mined because Iranian traffic is

403
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:00,880
transitting the straight.

404
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:02,279
Speaker 7: It's not closed.

405
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,720
Speaker 8: Because of the threat from short range ballistic missiles or

406
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:08,680
swamp or boat swarms are overwhelming. It is a financial issue.

407
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,160
And listen, the president without an Act of Congress, seems

408
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,279
to be able to muster about twenty billion dollars. You

409
00:22:14,319 --> 00:22:16,839
need about four hundred billion dollars, and the president can't

410
00:22:16,839 --> 00:22:19,680
do it himself. But you mean to tell me that

411
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,720
we can't. We can't just scrounge up four hundred billion

412
00:22:23,799 --> 00:22:26,400
dollars to reopen this key waterway.

413
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:27,440
Speaker 7: I don't believe it.

414
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:31,359
Speaker 8: This is a resolvable problem, much more easily resolvable than

415
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,039
a thoroughly mined straight would be.

416
00:22:33,279 --> 00:22:35,759
Speaker 7: And even then you have the capacity to clear those mines.

417
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,160
Speaker 5: Well, I'm sure you can find four hundred billion dollars

418
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:39,160
worth a new terraf for two.

419
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:41,440
Speaker 6: But don't leave this day.

420
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:44,559
Speaker 7: It is a global problem. It should be a global issue.

421
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,200
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, well, all right, not to dilate this

422
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,200
too much, I do think that one of the issues

423
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:51,000
is is the crew on a lot of these ships say, hey,

424
00:22:51,039 --> 00:22:54,440
wait a minute, we're not soldiers. Uh and okay, And

425
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,200
I think there have been a couple of ships hit

426
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:57,920
with something, you know, drone.

427
00:22:58,000 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 6: I don't know, So I don't know.

428
00:23:00,279 --> 00:23:00,599
Speaker 5: You can't.

429
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:01,759
Speaker 6: I can't tell anything.

430
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,720
Speaker 5: From afar, right, I just assume that ninety percent of

431
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,680
what I read on social media is wrong, fake, poorly

432
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:08,640
sourced and so forth.

433
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:10,920
Speaker 7: I just can't And.

434
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,039
Speaker 5: Even the mainstream media, I think, really doesn't know what's

435
00:23:13,079 --> 00:23:13,480
going on.

436
00:23:13,799 --> 00:23:17,079
Speaker 6: But the next question is, is I've heard vaguely of

437
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:18,000
some of the war games.

438
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:19,839
Speaker 5: Some of my old pals at AEI used to run

439
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:24,279
those every year, and I don't recall, and maybe I

440
00:23:24,319 --> 00:23:27,039
just didn't pay attention that a complete regime change war

441
00:23:27,039 --> 00:23:28,880
would take up to a million soldiers. I think maybe

442
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,400
I did once here that twenty years ago. And so

443
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:35,200
that raises the question, and this has been since day one.

444
00:23:35,319 --> 00:23:38,759
Can you accomplish our war aims or a neutralization of

445
00:23:38,799 --> 00:23:42,200
Iran with air power alone? People say it's never been done,

446
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,519
and I say, well, wait a minute. We did finally

447
00:23:44,799 --> 00:23:48,640
get Melosovich and Serbia to call off their war in

448
00:23:48,799 --> 00:23:51,319
a good scos of oth almost thirty years ago. That

449
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:55,319
did take seventy one days of bombing, though, right what's

450
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:56,559
the answer to that question? Noah?

451
00:23:56,559 --> 00:23:56,599
Speaker 8: What?

452
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:57,640
Speaker 5: What's your opinion is?

453
00:23:58,039 --> 00:23:58,880
Speaker 6: What are we gonna have to do?

454
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:00,759
Speaker 5: Are we going to have to contemplay some boots on

455
00:24:00,799 --> 00:24:04,359
the ground and selective ways or selected places, or you

456
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:05,000
think we need to.

457
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:06,160
Speaker 6: Stay the course with the bombing.

458
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,119
Speaker 5: And then finally, I'd like you to say something about

459
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,039
what should Trump be saying and doing, because right now

460
00:24:10,039 --> 00:24:11,559
he's all over the map, a.

461
00:24:11,599 --> 00:24:15,599
Speaker 8: Lot of questions, some epistemic humility on my part. I

462
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,000
don't know what it would take to collapse this regime.

463
00:24:18,039 --> 00:24:21,400
Should say that at the outset, Kosovo is a good model,

464
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,680
except we've we've probably performed from the air roughly forty

465
00:24:24,759 --> 00:24:27,119
Kosovo's in terms of the ordinance that's been dropped over

466
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,720
the course of this thing devastating, and we can only

467
00:24:30,799 --> 00:24:33,799
you know, we're focusing on the western half of Iran

468
00:24:34,279 --> 00:24:36,799
because it's harder to access the eastern half now that

469
00:24:36,799 --> 00:24:39,240
we no longer have Afghanistan as a base of operations.

470
00:24:40,839 --> 00:24:44,359
But the prospect of introducing ground forces to say, seize

471
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:48,599
Krg Island, which is the primary area that Iran exports

472
00:24:48,599 --> 00:24:51,079
oil from, is not off the table. The notion that

473
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,440
we would see is bonder Abbas, which is, you know,

474
00:24:53,519 --> 00:24:58,839
opposite the straight that's not off the table, although I

475
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,720
don't necessarily think that's option that the President wants to pursue,

476
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,640
and it's probably going to be a last resort. Nevertheless,

477
00:25:04,799 --> 00:25:07,279
it would finally throttle the revenue stream that the URGC

478
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,720
gets from the sale of Iranian oil, and the URGC

479
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,119
is the primary beneficiary of the sale of Iranian oil.

480
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,319
The Iranian people don't see almost dollar one from those

481
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:19,960
from those revenues. The question I forgot the second question.

482
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:21,279
I can go right to what Trump should say, but

483
00:25:21,319 --> 00:25:22,240
what was the second question?

484
00:25:22,519 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 5: Well, it's uh, well, what do you think it could

485
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:26,319
be the end game here?

486
00:25:26,839 --> 00:25:28,640
Speaker 8: Oh, how to collapse a regime from the air. Yeah,

487
00:25:28,759 --> 00:25:30,599
there's very few good models for that. I mean you

488
00:25:30,599 --> 00:25:35,400
could say Libya sort of, but that's a fraught comparison, right,

489
00:25:35,759 --> 00:25:38,240
And you need a ground force. You need a ground force.

490
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,039
And the ground force that did it in Kosovo was

491
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,599
the the Serbian people. The ground force that did it

492
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,599
in Libya was the Libyan people. We need the Iranian

493
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,319
people to step up and act as that ground force.

494
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,839
Speaker 5: Well, shoot, let me should should we arm the Kurds?

495
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,279
I mean, I keep hearing we're going back and forth

496
00:25:54,319 --> 00:25:54,559
on that.

497
00:25:55,279 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 6: Is this a good idea, bad.

498
00:25:56,319 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 8: Idea, super fraught prospect. I don't know if it's the

499
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,079
best idea. I don't know if it's the worst idea.

500
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,880
I don't think it's a great idea. That might have

501
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:09,720
been misinformation designed to keep everybody in Iran on their toes.

502
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:14,240
Move forces, for example, to the northwest of the country,

503
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,319
or you know, these areas are in the northwest of

504
00:26:17,319 --> 00:26:21,480
Iran are also arrest of population, and that would antagonize Turkey.

505
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:23,680
And we already have a kind of a fraught relationship

506
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,240
with the Syrian Kurds because we've been trying to abandon

507
00:26:26,279 --> 00:26:29,319
them unsuccessfully for the better part of a decade. So

508
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:32,079
you know, we have the Kurds are a very reliable force,

509
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,440
and the Israelis love the Kurds. They have a particular

510
00:26:35,079 --> 00:26:39,839
affinity for the stateless population of beset people for obvious

511
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,559
cultural reasons. But it would introduce a lot of variables

512
00:26:44,599 --> 00:26:47,440
that we probably don't want at this point. The ground

513
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,759
force that we want to see is in urban centers,

514
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:56,119
in places like Tehran and Come and elsewhere is fahn Bhushir,

515
00:26:56,839 --> 00:26:59,519
and we want the Iranian people to seize the nodes

516
00:26:59,559 --> 00:27:03,680
of command and control in this regime and then force

517
00:27:03,759 --> 00:27:06,240
the Iranians to rely on their traditional base of power,

518
00:27:06,279 --> 00:27:08,920
which is really rural, more world than anything. But at

519
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,160
that point, you're talking about a quasi insurgency and that

520
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,400
would itself be a challenged to deal with, but it's

521
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,839
a challenge for another day. What should Trump.

522
00:27:17,599 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 1: Say, Yeah, that's my last question.

523
00:27:19,799 --> 00:27:22,319
Speaker 8: Right, Trump should level with the American people, and there's

524
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,759
never a bad time to do it. He's not given

525
00:27:25,759 --> 00:27:27,759
an address to the public, and I, for the life

526
00:27:27,759 --> 00:27:31,599
of me, don't know why. Since Obama White houses have

527
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,279
been allergic to the Oval Office as a setting.

528
00:27:34,599 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 7: Yeah, I don't get it.

529
00:27:36,279 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 5: I don't Oh, I think well, I think one reason

530
00:27:38,759 --> 00:27:41,079
why is we no longer have the old media where

531
00:27:41,079 --> 00:27:43,880
you had a roadblock where President's coming on at eight

532
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:46,799
o'clock prime time and all the networks would carry it.

533
00:27:47,039 --> 00:27:49,559
But now we have five hundred channels and social media,

534
00:27:49,599 --> 00:27:51,720
and I think that's one reason. I think Trump's not

535
00:27:51,839 --> 00:27:55,039
very good at Oval Office addresses. But specifically, if you

536
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,720
Norah Rothman are his speech writer, what would you want

537
00:27:57,799 --> 00:27:59,599
him to say or what specifically would you like to

538
00:27:59,599 --> 00:28:00,240
hear from.

539
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 8: Yeah, I would say I would outline the nature of

540
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,440
the Iranian threat. I would define all the ways in

541
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:08,319
which we've been at war with this state from its

542
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,519
inception forty seven years ago, all the Americans that has killed,

543
00:28:11,559 --> 00:28:13,559
all the blood and treasure that it SAPs from us,

544
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,559
and our forward deployment posture in the Middle East, which

545
00:28:16,599 --> 00:28:19,599
is necessitated by the Iranian threat, and how much we

546
00:28:19,759 --> 00:28:23,160
strategic benefits we would derive from the neutralization of that

547
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,920
threat allow us to finally execute that pivot to Asia

548
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:32,079
that every president has been frustrated by the nature of

549
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,240
both Iran and Russia. I think we can deter Russia

550
00:28:35,319 --> 00:28:38,920
with NATO and with the conventional deployments that we have

551
00:28:39,799 --> 00:28:43,559
in Europe. The Middle East is far more tricky, and

552
00:28:43,599 --> 00:28:47,400
it requires surges and withdrawals, and we're very frustrated with

553
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:51,400
that relationship. We love to withdraw or at least maintain

554
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,359
a footprint that is far more, far less onerous than

555
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:57,480
the one we presently have, and the neutralization of that

556
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,000
threat would facilitate it. Likewise, I would make a moral arge,

557
00:29:00,359 --> 00:29:02,319
even though the magam wing is allergic to it. But

558
00:29:02,359 --> 00:29:05,160
the President isn't. He has said we want freedom for

559
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:09,039
the Iranian people. He speculated about humanitarian intervention on behalf

560
00:29:09,039 --> 00:29:12,839
of the Iranian people. The American public does not necessarily respond,

561
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:17,240
is not as allergic to the notion that we should

562
00:29:17,279 --> 00:29:19,759
intervene on the behalf of the Ranian people, and that slaughter,

563
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,559
that massacre of what Trump said in his State of

564
00:29:22,599 --> 00:29:25,759
the Union speech was thirty two thousand people has sat

565
00:29:25,799 --> 00:29:28,359
the Iranian regime of legitimacy, both at home and abroad.

566
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,799
The United Nations Security Council passed a resolution condemning Iran

567
00:29:32,279 --> 00:29:35,920
attacking the Gulf States yesterday, and neither Russia or China

568
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:36,599
vetoed it.

569
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 7: I think they would.

570
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,319
Speaker 8: Have in the absence of that massacre. It has just

571
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,599
taken the wind out of the sales of the tankies

572
00:29:43,599 --> 00:29:45,960
who would otherwise defend this regime.

573
00:29:46,319 --> 00:29:47,519
Speaker 7: And then lastly, I would.

574
00:29:47,279 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 8: Tell the American people to expect that they would experience

575
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,759
hardships as a result of this. This is not going

576
00:29:53,799 --> 00:29:57,559
to be a quick endeavor. American soldiers may come home

577
00:29:57,599 --> 00:29:59,839
and caskets some already have, and we may see more

578
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:01,960
and you're going to pay more at the pump, and

579
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:04,000
it's going to be a while. I think Joe Biden

580
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,920
made a big mistake by insisting that the pain that

581
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,920
Americans would experience in their pocketbooks would be minimal and

582
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,720
it would be offset by administration actions. It wasn't, and

583
00:30:14,799 --> 00:30:18,119
the administration suffered for not telling the American public the truth.

584
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,279
I don't I sympathize with the people who say that,

585
00:30:20,759 --> 00:30:22,960
you know that the president hasn't been clear in his

586
00:30:23,119 --> 00:30:27,039
goals or hasn't necessarily, you know, prepped the groundwork for

587
00:30:27,119 --> 00:30:30,200
this sort of thing. Trump hasn't really trusted the American

588
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,119
people with the truth, and they're reciprocating they don't trust

589
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:37,160
him either, and it's never, never too late to rectify

590
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,400
that by leveling with us.

591
00:30:42,359 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 2: Do you think now that they can be convinced? No,

592
00:30:49,319 --> 00:30:51,680
not the administration, the public. Do you think the public

593
00:30:51,799 --> 00:30:54,880
can be convinced? And I went off on a rent

594
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,079
on the Editor's podcast we both do together. You went

595
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:02,799
on that one about the show termism of the news

596
00:31:02,839 --> 00:31:05,599
coverage of this. I think you can blame Trump to

597
00:31:05,599 --> 00:31:07,960
some extent for that, and it wasn't an attempt to

598
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:09,720
smuggle in a case for the war, because as you don't.

599
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 4: I'm agnostic, but.

600
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,039
Speaker 2: I'm just irritated by the fact that we're doing this

601
00:31:13,079 --> 00:31:17,400
big thing, and you have daily tracking of oil prices,

602
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,000
even when they go up and then go back to

603
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:24,920
where they started, and the assumption that we're now in

604
00:31:25,039 --> 00:31:27,160
chaos and that everybody should panic.

605
00:31:27,759 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 4: That is seen through one.

606
00:31:30,839 --> 00:31:34,319
Speaker 2: Lens, just a totally unwillingness to deal with trade offs.

607
00:31:34,839 --> 00:31:38,359
And I wonder whether that comes as much from a

608
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:42,839
public that is dispositionally unsuited to this sort of conflict

609
00:31:42,839 --> 00:31:45,359
as from the Trump administration's lack of communication, which I

610
00:31:45,359 --> 00:31:46,119
have criticized.

611
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 4: Do you think the public can be convinced to stick

612
00:31:48,039 --> 00:31:50,000
with this? I do.

613
00:31:50,599 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 8: I think the bully pulpit is a powerful instrument in

614
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,200
the president's hands, and when it's used properly, and the

615
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,440
case is made not once, not twice, but again and

616
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,920
again and again and repetition until you can summon the

617
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,359
arguments yourself by memory. I think that does have an effect,

618
00:32:05,359 --> 00:32:07,480
and I don't think he's starting from a baseline of zero.

619
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,559
Polling indicates that the American public recognizes that Iran is

620
00:32:11,599 --> 00:32:14,759
a threat to American strategic interests as well as the

621
00:32:14,799 --> 00:32:18,720
safety of individual citizens. And we had that one survey

622
00:32:18,759 --> 00:32:22,119
which you've talked about also on the editors from CBS

623
00:32:22,119 --> 00:32:24,599
News that indicates if this were a week long endeavor,

624
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,440
weeks slung endeavor rather, that it would be overwhelmingly popular.

625
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:32,119
It's a seventy seven seventy four percent proposition in favor.

626
00:32:32,839 --> 00:32:36,039
What people are concerned about, in my view, which is

627
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,640
just my gut, is the potential for this to be

628
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,720
a very long drawn out conflict that involves a slow

629
00:32:43,799 --> 00:32:47,240
drip of US casualties akin to the insurgency phase of

630
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,880
the Iraq War. That's what people don't want, and they

631
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:52,839
want the president to reassure them to that effect. Could

632
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,599
the public be convinced by Trump. I don't know, because

633
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,319
he's drump and he's a very polarizing figure. But we

634
00:32:58,359 --> 00:33:00,400
also had the survey that I pointed out to Day,

635
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:06,839
which Aaron blake Over at CNN identified that the support

636
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:11,319
for the Iraq Iran wars is relatively unpopular. Let's say

637
00:33:11,359 --> 00:33:14,400
it's about ten twelve points underwater. But if you take

638
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,759
Trump's name out of the question, it's an even proposition.

639
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,000
So people are evaluating it through the lens of domestic politics.

640
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,119
And that's really what the press is doing too. They're

641
00:33:23,119 --> 00:33:25,480
evaluating all of this to the lens of domestic politics.

642
00:33:25,519 --> 00:33:30,599
It's barely concealed their desire to brand the Republican Party

643
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,279
with something akin to the Iraq War so they can

644
00:33:33,519 --> 00:33:37,000
take advantage of Iraq Wars in syndrome reducts. I mean

645
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,680
that is, it's so obvious that there's a political motive

646
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:47,119
behind the un endurable, overwhelming drum beat of stories from

647
00:33:47,119 --> 00:33:50,720
the press about how everything is going wrong. The Gulf

648
00:33:50,799 --> 00:33:53,880
States are turning on us. We can't change the regime.

649
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,279
The regime is entrenched. But if the United States doesn't

650
00:33:56,279 --> 00:34:00,359
stop trying to engineer regime, regime change will be woraw

651
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,079
for it, so we have to now pursue this campaign

652
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:05,440
that's going to be a losing campaign or will even

653
00:34:05,599 --> 00:34:06,759
be in worse straits.

654
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 7: You know that we.

655
00:34:08,519 --> 00:34:11,679
Speaker 8: Can't we can't open the Hormuz Strait anytime in the

656
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,960
foreseeable future. On and on and on and at the

657
00:34:15,039 --> 00:34:18,039
expense of the tactical victories that we're achieving, which are

658
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:23,519
incredibly impressive and really detrimental to the future of this regime.

659
00:34:23,599 --> 00:34:27,840
I think we always talk about what America's situation is,

660
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,400
you know, what its strategic impediments are, it's hindrances.

661
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:32,760
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think about it from the regimes perspective.

662
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 8: Let's say there's a scenario in which Trump Trump pulls

663
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,639
out early, so you know, it declares victory in retreats,

664
00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:41,440
and you have a rump Iranian regime that's really nasty.

665
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:42,679
Speaker 7: Matt is a bunch of hornets.

666
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 1: But they have no.

667
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,159
Speaker 8: Ballistic missile capability anymore. They're seriously degraded in their capacity

668
00:34:47,199 --> 00:34:50,960
to exploit an export oil. They have no nuclear capacity anymore.

669
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,719
Just about every besiege facility is destroyed, every IRGC facility

670
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:58,039
is destroyed, and you still have an angry Iranian population

671
00:34:58,159 --> 00:35:00,880
that wants vengeance. For the thirty two two thousand family

672
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:02,960
members and friends that they lost at the hands of

673
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:07,519
this regime, and in a golf region, however, quietly seething

674
00:35:07,559 --> 00:35:09,559
they are at the United States for being drawn into

675
00:35:09,559 --> 00:35:13,159
this thing. There's precisely one game in town to stop

676
00:35:13,199 --> 00:35:16,039
Iran from executing at any time at a point and

677
00:35:16,119 --> 00:35:19,639
its desire to disrupt the oil market in its region

678
00:35:20,079 --> 00:35:21,880
to do so. China's not going to do that, even

679
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:23,559
if it had the capability. Russia is not going to

680
00:35:23,639 --> 00:35:25,519
do that, even if it had the capability. Israel and

681
00:35:25,519 --> 00:35:28,079
the United States are the only game, so they're going

682
00:35:28,159 --> 00:35:31,320
to play, and the Iranian regime will be constrained both

683
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,760
by its material deficiencies and its primary threat, which it

684
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,159
makes no bones about, its own people. If you hear

685
00:35:38,199 --> 00:35:40,840
the statements from whatever is left of this Iranian regime,

686
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:42,760
they intend to treat anybody out in the streets like

687
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,639
an enemy combatant, shoot them on site. They're terrified of

688
00:35:45,679 --> 00:35:48,360
their people, and their people will remain terrifying for.

689
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:49,280
Speaker 7: The foreseeable future.

690
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,159
Speaker 8: This regime's days are numbered, it's just a matter of when,

691
00:35:52,639 --> 00:35:54,440
and hopefully when is sooner rather than later.

692
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,639
Speaker 1: No one of the problems people have discussed is that

693
00:35:57,679 --> 00:36:00,440
they set up a system by which the caption of

694
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,760
the regime does not mean capitulation. That there are all

695
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,079
these autonomous groups that essentially don't have to answer to anybody.

696
00:36:06,119 --> 00:36:08,599
They can just continue on the war because they have

697
00:36:08,639 --> 00:36:10,920
authority delegated. And then regardless of whether or not there's

698
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,920
a I totally at the top, we'll see about that.

699
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:16,159
But I do know that you're right about the press,

700
00:36:16,199 --> 00:36:20,199
and that if Trump was just sitting in a wheelchair

701
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,880
with a long cigarette holder pointed up at a jaunty

702
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,199
angle and a fedora, he'd probably be regarded as a liberator.

703
00:36:27,599 --> 00:36:29,840
But there are other places to liberate. We've seen an

704
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,880
interesting selection of American activity in the last few months.

705
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,679
We saw the Magic garraid in Venezuela, where the guys

706
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,719
swooped down used phaser guns to turn everyone to jelly

707
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:44,960
and then to Kumodora. We've seen overwhelming force in the Gulf,

708
00:36:45,119 --> 00:36:47,840
and now we're talking about a sort of diplomacy and

709
00:36:48,039 --> 00:36:50,199
sitting down around a table to do something about Cuber.

710
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:55,480
What is going on with Cuba and what is the

711
00:36:55,559 --> 00:36:58,880
endgame likely to be? Personally, for me, the endgame I

712
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,000
would like to be all the Cuban regime guys on

713
00:37:02,039 --> 00:37:05,039
the shore of Cuba, putting together boats out of milk

714
00:37:05,079 --> 00:37:09,800
cartons and old fifty seven Mercury chassis and making their

715
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:14,000
way perilously to Florida, where all of the other Cuban

716
00:37:14,039 --> 00:37:15,960
guys are sitting there waiting for them with a little

717
00:37:16,119 --> 00:37:19,119
you know, tapping chilale's in their palms. But we'll see.

718
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:20,360
So what's the Cuba situation.

719
00:37:21,199 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 8: Cuba situation is again pretty opaque, but the regime has

720
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,239
made the administration rather has made no bones about its

721
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:32,199
desire to see the Cuban regime change its character fundamentally,

722
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,519
if not ceased to exist in its present form. It's

723
00:37:35,519 --> 00:37:39,320
a worthy and noble goal. And again it's not exactly

724
00:37:39,679 --> 00:37:42,920
veiled that their intention when taking out Maduro as they did,

725
00:37:43,679 --> 00:37:46,800
was to create a client Venezuelan regime that would give

726
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,719
us the essentially licensed to direct where their for their

727
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,679
energy was being dispatched to the design they're being to

728
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,039
throttle China's access to it.

729
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:57,599
Speaker 7: But mostly Cuba.

730
00:37:57,679 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 8: Cuba is propped up by the Venezuelan regime and it

731
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:02,880
has been cultivating that regime since Hugo Chaves took power

732
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:04,920
in nineteen ninety nine, and that's where it gets most

733
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,079
of his energy, and without that energy, the state is

734
00:38:07,159 --> 00:38:11,920
very close to economic collapse. It's been economically moribund throughout

735
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:16,360
this century, but it's especially dire right now. And yeah,

736
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:18,559
the goal is to neutralize that as a threat. And

737
00:38:18,599 --> 00:38:20,880
there is a grand strategic component to all of this.

738
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:23,760
I don't know where that campaign is going. It seems

739
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,559
to be in much more of the distant future than

740
00:38:27,599 --> 00:38:30,480
the administration likes to say, if not the distant future,

741
00:38:30,519 --> 00:38:32,920
within the next you know, several years. It's not on

742
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:37,320
the immediate to do list, but the strategic rationale. You know,

743
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:41,559
when on October six, twenty twenty three, the so called

744
00:38:41,639 --> 00:38:45,400
Axis of anti American powers that I was very energized

745
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:49,360
about looked quite robust, and it looked like an approximate

746
00:38:49,519 --> 00:38:55,280
military alliance Russia, China, North Korea, Venezuela, Cuba, Iran, and

747
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:59,119
you could throw in some Latin American hostile states in

748
00:38:59,159 --> 00:39:00,880
there as well. But for the most part, that was

749
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:03,679
what we were dealing with. The regime is still in

750
00:39:03,679 --> 00:39:07,360
place in Venezuela, but it's much more chastened and pliant,

751
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,800
and that was valuable ahead of the Iranian campaign because

752
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,639
the Iranians have a significant presence. The IRGC had a

753
00:39:13,679 --> 00:39:17,480
significant presence in Venezuela and Latin America broadly, and they've

754
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,119
executed some of the worst terrorist attacks in Latin America,

755
00:39:21,159 --> 00:39:23,920
and that was a reduced threat. Again, Cuba is a

756
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:28,119
reduced threat as a result of these initiatives. And if

757
00:39:28,119 --> 00:39:30,800
the Iranian regime falls, it takes another chess piece off

758
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:34,360
the board, one of the most unpredictable and I would

759
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:39,039
say evil of America's antagonists on the world stage. Now,

760
00:39:39,039 --> 00:39:42,519
this isn't going to throttle China's access to energy. China

761
00:39:42,639 --> 00:39:44,960
will lean very heavily on Iran in the future, or

762
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:47,639
rather Russia in the future for energy exports. And it's

763
00:39:47,639 --> 00:39:52,000
also insulated itself somewhat with its investments in both fossil

764
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,559
fuel power generation and electrification of for example cars, And

765
00:39:55,559 --> 00:39:58,960
we'll have it, they're very leaning heavily into electrified cars,

766
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,760
which reduces the sting if the Iranian regime were to

767
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,079
fall along with Venezuela and throttle China's access.

768
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:07,079
Speaker 7: To oil, they won't be without oil.

769
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,320
Speaker 8: But we bind Russia and China together in ways that

770
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:14,440
actually advantage us. What we kind of want to do

771
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:19,719
now is the opposite of engineering an anti Kissingerian foreign policy,

772
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,159
the opposite of the Sino Soviet split. We want to

773
00:40:22,159 --> 00:40:26,119
bind these two together. They deserve each other. They are

774
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,239
by no means allies. They all of these states are

775
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,559
not allies in the conventional sense that we would recognize them.

776
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:34,960
We come to your aid if you're attacked. That's not

777
00:40:35,119 --> 00:40:39,320
how these alliances work. Their relationships of convenience, and their

778
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,519
only shared principle is the desire to see that the

779
00:40:42,599 --> 00:40:46,119
American led geopolitical order collapse and be replaced with something else.

780
00:40:46,159 --> 00:40:48,320
And they all disagree on what that something else looks like.

781
00:40:49,519 --> 00:40:52,519
But they don't come to each other's defense when they're attacked.

782
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:56,079
They prop them up and support them in covert ways.

783
00:40:56,599 --> 00:40:59,679
But those covert ways are unequal to the nature of

784
00:40:59,679 --> 00:41:01,800
the threat. When you're under bombardment from the United States

785
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,679
and Israel, and we would like to see Beijing that

786
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:08,039
is far more reliant on Russia, and Russia that is

787
00:41:08,039 --> 00:41:10,920
a far more chasing junior partner to China, and the

788
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:14,280
two of them stuck with each other in a world

789
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:17,880
that is increasingly arrayed against them and inclined towards idle

790
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,400
isolating them. That's a much more advantageous future from American

791
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:23,039
and American strategic perspective.

792
00:41:23,519 --> 00:41:25,840
Speaker 1: Authoritary in states, of course, can always crack down on

793
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:27,960
their own people when they get restive. The problem with

794
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,039
the West is that we have a group of people

795
00:41:30,079 --> 00:41:33,920
who don't like us and would like to do something

796
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,960
about it. Which leads us to your upcoming book, Blood

797
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:42,719
and Progress, a century of left wing violence. Blood and Progress.

798
00:41:43,159 --> 00:41:45,480
Would that be described on the left as as sort

799
00:41:45,519 --> 00:41:48,559
of like handmaide, you know, walking hand in hand down

800
00:41:48,599 --> 00:41:50,559
the aisle, A good thing. You've got to crack some

801
00:41:50,639 --> 00:41:55,400
eggs to, you know, to make an omelet. Do they

802
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:57,760
tell us what the book is about, aside from the

803
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:01,800
title and whether or not the the rivulets of blood

804
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:03,760
that we saw in the sixties still continue to course

805
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,679
through the veins of modern progressivism. Oh, that was a bad,

806
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:07,760
bad line to.

807
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 7: Rather poetic.

808
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,599
Speaker 1: Actually, oh no, that's.

809
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:16,679
Speaker 7: Very literary, dude.

810
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:21,079
Speaker 8: So the book springs from, as so many books do,

811
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:26,360
a fallacy that is quite popular abroad, and it is

812
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:32,079
reinforced by some selectively curated statistics and some motivated institutions

813
00:42:32,159 --> 00:42:34,559
that promote the notion that the political right in the

814
00:42:34,639 --> 00:42:37,599
United States is the font from which all domestic political

815
00:42:37,639 --> 00:42:42,599
violence springs. That is a notion abroad that is very popular,

816
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:47,639
closely held, particularly by the left, and relatively unchallenged, and

817
00:42:47,679 --> 00:42:51,559
it is wrong. It is supported, as I write, by

818
00:42:51,639 --> 00:42:56,760
some not a conspiracy, but selectively curated statistics, some of

819
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:01,239
which are influenced as there's particularly influential national security document

820
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:04,920
that was produced for the Department of hooland Security which

821
00:43:05,159 --> 00:43:08,599
very bravely notes that the research into political left wing

822
00:43:08,679 --> 00:43:13,079
violence is tainted in part by the fact that practitioners

823
00:43:13,079 --> 00:43:16,440
of left wing political violence were contributors, if not the authors,

824
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,599
of some of those studies. There is intimidation at work

825
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:23,480
to researchers in these fields who study, for example, what

826
00:43:23,519 --> 00:43:29,320
the FBI calls AVE terrorism anarchist violent extremist terrorism, which

827
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:33,119
is conventionally where left wing terrorism, domestic terrorism fits into

828
00:43:33,159 --> 00:43:36,920
within the broader landscape of DVEs domestic violent extremists.

829
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,840
Speaker 7: And you have the ADL list, you have these.

830
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:46,840
Speaker 8: University projects, all of which conspire to allege, for reasons

831
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:51,039
that I outline in book length detail, why the American

832
00:43:51,119 --> 00:43:53,239
right is more violent than the left. And if you

833
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:56,880
go through the individual incidences of violence in our time,

834
00:43:57,199 --> 00:43:59,920
it certainly does seem like we're experiencing a wave of

835
00:44:00,079 --> 00:44:03,000
left wing political violence that is unparalleled by the right

836
00:44:03,039 --> 00:44:06,639
and does not have a symmetry on the right. And

837
00:44:06,679 --> 00:44:08,599
if you go back a couple of decades, you see

838
00:44:08,599 --> 00:44:11,719
the antecedents to the violence that we're experiencing now in

839
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:18,000
the form of the protests around the WTO in Seattle

840
00:44:18,039 --> 00:44:21,039
in nineteen ninety nine, the Occupy Wall Street movement, the

841
00:44:21,199 --> 00:44:23,800
semi violent protests against the Iraq War, the two thousand

842
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,400
and eight GOP convention, NATO summits in Chicago, all of

843
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:28,199
which were.

844
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:29,159
Speaker 7: Very violent and.

845
00:44:30,639 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 8: Surrounded by radical elements, and those radical elements got sucker

846
00:44:34,039 --> 00:44:38,320
from institutions, left wing institutions in the United States. But

847
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,119
then you start to see parallels between that and waves

848
00:44:41,159 --> 00:44:43,320
of violence that we've experienced in the past from left

849
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:46,679
wing extremists, like the nineteen tens and nineteen twenties, with

850
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:50,840
the Italian anarchist movement, which today is considered not necessarily

851
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,440
by some considered not necessarily a left wing terrorist movement

852
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,679
because they're anarchists, Right, What does anarchism have to do

853
00:44:57,079 --> 00:44:59,000
with the left? They want a big government, they want

854
00:44:59,039 --> 00:44:59,519
no government.

855
00:44:59,559 --> 00:45:00,840
Speaker 7: What is it to do with anything?

856
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 8: And you go back into you can say, also the

857
00:45:03,039 --> 00:45:05,480
wave of terrorism from the nineteen seventies nineteen eighties that

858
00:45:05,519 --> 00:45:09,519
Brian Burrow documented in his excellent book Days of Rage,

859
00:45:10,159 --> 00:45:11,719
these things are. And then you go back to the

860
00:45:12,079 --> 00:45:15,599
Puerto Rican terrorism, into Puerto Rican independence terrorism, which had

861
00:45:15,639 --> 00:45:18,239
ties to the Soviet Union in Cuba, which is and

862
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,079
it's all forgotten. The chroniclers of these things each to

863
00:45:21,199 --> 00:45:23,800
a man say, Wow, it's just forgotten, isn't.

864
00:45:23,599 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 7: It as though that wasn't motivated?

865
00:45:25,519 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 8: Reasoning as though that was as though that just organically happened. No,

866
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,400
it didn't organically happen. This is part of a project,

867
00:45:33,119 --> 00:45:35,480
and the left in cubits its own heroes and martyrs

868
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,639
and justifies political violence as some sort of a romantic

869
00:45:38,679 --> 00:45:42,559
expression of ideological zeal and. They've been doing it for decades,

870
00:45:42,679 --> 00:45:45,239
and it's about time they're confronted with the results of

871
00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:45,800
their work.

872
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:51,159
Speaker 1: I think it is extraordinary that you downplay the influence

873
00:45:51,199 --> 00:45:53,639
of men in khaki pants with tiki torches, who I

874
00:45:53,639 --> 00:45:56,360
think were responsible for something like ninety nine percent of

875
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,400
the one hundred thousand people killed in twenty eighteen. But

876
00:45:59,519 --> 00:46:01,199
I guess we're gonna have to have you back when

877
00:46:01,199 --> 00:46:03,079
the book comes out in May, and indeed we will

878
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:04,840
thank you for being with us again and we look

879
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:06,719
forward to you in the future. We are going to

880
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,480
say goodbye until the next time. And always a pleasure.

881
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:11,840
I always instructive, I always enlightening. Noah Rothman, you can

882
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:15,159
find a National Review and other places as well. Thanks Noah,

883
00:46:15,159 --> 00:46:15,880
We'll talk to you later.

884
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 7: Thank you, guys. Be well.

885
00:46:19,519 --> 00:46:21,320
Speaker 1: The other thing about political violence, we just had a

886
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:24,400
little bit of it ourselves here in New York. We

887
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:27,800
had a bomb throwing and the bomb throwing was remarkable

888
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:31,079
for the whole Mandammi incident was remarkable for a variety

889
00:46:31,079 --> 00:46:34,039
of things. One the target, two the guys who did it.

890
00:46:34,519 --> 00:46:39,360
Three the fellow on ex Twitter who was captured sort

891
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:42,400
of with a bullhorn talking about the need to accept

892
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,760
more many immigrants as possible at the same time that

893
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,039
a bomb was being thrown over his head, and then

894
00:46:48,119 --> 00:46:51,800
him going on X and continuing to say, I stand

895
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:53,400
by what I say and I know at least I'm

896
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:56,039
not being a bigot about this. And then finally the

897
00:46:56,079 --> 00:46:59,039
press getting it wrong and saying that the you know,

898
00:46:59,159 --> 00:47:02,280
the bombs are being thrown bami. It's a perfect encapsulation

899
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:04,719
of modern politics. Charles, would you agree?

900
00:47:06,079 --> 00:47:08,639
Speaker 2: I was so irritated by this, And I just want

901
00:47:08,679 --> 00:47:11,719
to say, James, that I absolutely admire the finesse with

902
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:14,920
which you're torturing Steve here, who, as you say, has

903
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:17,840
been desperate to talk on this topic since it was

904
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:21,599
first raised, and then you went to me instead. We

905
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:25,039
can't see it, but he's probably twitching like a drug addict.

906
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:28,559
Speaker 1: Well, I want to ask you some questions about progressive

907
00:47:28,599 --> 00:47:32,039
rock from the seventies next, Charles, but go on.

908
00:47:33,679 --> 00:47:36,559
Speaker 2: I was revolted, and I shall focus on this, partly

909
00:47:36,599 --> 00:47:38,920
because it's true, and partly so Steve can deal with

910
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:44,280
the meat. I was revolted by the media in this circumstance.

911
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,480
This was indefensible, and by that I don't just mean morally,

912
00:47:47,559 --> 00:47:50,360
I mean it was impossible to defend. Normally, they wave

913
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:53,159
their hands and they say, oh, you're just being sensitive, or.

914
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:56,079
Speaker 4: If you read to paragraph nineteen, you're saying no.

915
00:47:57,119 --> 00:48:01,880
Speaker 2: This was a deliberate attempt to ignore what had happened.

916
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,320
I don't know whether it was because it was so

917
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,719
poignant to watch the guy saying everyone's welcome here while

918
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:11,400
an Islamic terrorist is throwing bombs over his head, or

919
00:48:11,679 --> 00:48:15,719
whether it's just reflex the notion or the suspicion that

920
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,320
if the press reports honestly on these sorts of things

921
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:20,039
and the wrong people will hear it and draw the

922
00:48:20,079 --> 00:48:26,000
wrong conclusions. But the level of dishonesty on this one

923
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:27,199
was alarming.

924
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:27,679
Speaker 4: I mean, the.

925
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:32,039
Speaker 2: New York Times described the bombers, was it jars of

926
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:33,480
fuses and.

927
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:37,320
Speaker 1: Spring, a little bit of glass and some some sprinkles

928
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:40,880
of sugar, and you know, and then little adule thumbtag.

929
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:44,280
Speaker 2: I had this wonderful CNN piece which seems to have

930
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:46,360
falled everyone at the network because they've all been apologizing

931
00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:49,079
one by one on Twitter, which said, you know, two

932
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:55,280
young men and the American teenage dream walked into New

933
00:48:55,360 --> 00:49:00,119
York City on a fine day. They could have done anything,

934
00:49:00,639 --> 00:49:02,840
but a few hours later they found themselves at the

935
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:04,480
heart of a terrorist incert.

936
00:49:04,559 --> 00:49:05,199
Speaker 4: They did it.

937
00:49:05,679 --> 00:49:06,760
Speaker 6: They did it.

938
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 2: They proclaimed their loyalty to Isis, and they said they

939
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:11,800
wanted to kill more people than it died at the

940
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:15,159
Boston marathon bomby. This wasn't a couple of guys on

941
00:49:15,199 --> 00:49:17,719
their way who got irritated by the price of sandwiches

942
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:18,920
and suddenly hit someone.

943
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 4: My goodness me. And it's sinister.

944
00:49:22,159 --> 00:49:27,360
Speaker 2: It's truly sinister, because although I'm a big fan, obviously

945
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:28,880
of alternative.

946
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:32,119
Speaker 4: Media and of the.

947
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:36,119
Speaker 2: Internet and of lots of ways of getting around the mainstream,

948
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:39,920
the mainstream still exists, and people take their cues from

949
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:43,960
headlines and from blurbs, and I mean, the fact that

950
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,880
the press decided to cover this up is alarming. And

951
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:51,000
the final reason it's alarming is because there are people

952
00:49:51,039 --> 00:49:54,400
out there who are wrong, who think that everything they

953
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:57,039
read is a lie. And when you go down that road,

954
00:49:57,119 --> 00:50:00,239
you end up at Candy so Owens right. And and

955
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:03,960
the problem with this is that this is yet another

956
00:50:04,039 --> 00:50:07,679
example of the actually being a deliberate lie. And the

957
00:50:07,679 --> 00:50:09,840
more you do this, the less you fool the public,

958
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:11,960
the more you convince them everything you say is falsehood.

959
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:15,239
Speaker 4: Actually it's not. And I thought for that reason it

960
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:16,519
was extra irresponsible.

961
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:19,880
Speaker 1: Steve go ahead.

962
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:26,039
Speaker 5: I am astounded that CNN, which looks to be about

963
00:50:26,079 --> 00:50:29,519
to be acquired by David Ellison, who with their acquisition

964
00:50:29,559 --> 00:50:32,440
of Paramount, installed Barry Weiss at CBS News, where she's

965
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:34,599
slowly making some changes for the better. I'm amazed that

966
00:50:34,599 --> 00:50:36,440
there aren't some adults there who said we should at

967
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,320
least be a little bit careful. Instead, they assigned this

968
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:43,920
story to a reporter who has a degree in gender

969
00:50:44,039 --> 00:50:47,760
studies from Berkeley and whose previous job before CNN was

970
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,159
with PACIFICA Radio in Los Angeles.

971
00:50:50,199 --> 00:50:53,400
Speaker 6: And if you don't know PACIFICA Radio, it's a public station,

972
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:54,599
but it's very left wing.

973
00:50:54,679 --> 00:50:56,960
Speaker 5: It's just way out there, and it actually had their

974
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,800
financial troubles over the last few years, which is deserved.

975
00:51:00,639 --> 00:51:03,400
But at this point, I'm just saying, you know, I

976
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:05,960
don't even think CNN can be reformed. I think they

977
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:07,760
should just close it all down. I think most of

978
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:10,480
their viewership is now the captive audience at airports and

979
00:51:10,519 --> 00:51:13,440
bars anyway, so I don't know how many real people

980
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:16,719
actually watch it anymore, or hand it over to what's

981
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:20,039
his name, Ken Jennings and let him run the thing.

982
00:51:21,199 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 1: Yeah right, I share the sentiments that both of you

983
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:31,119
just described. And I'm still astonished actually that I got

984
00:51:31,159 --> 00:51:33,119
most of my news on this from X. As a

985
00:51:33,119 --> 00:51:35,079
matter of fact, I get most of my news on X,

986
00:51:35,360 --> 00:51:37,599
which kind of makes me nervous. Now I've got a

987
00:51:37,599 --> 00:51:39,159
lot of sources that I hit every day. Every morning,

988
00:51:39,159 --> 00:51:42,280
I get up, I read the local paper online without charging,

989
00:51:42,519 --> 00:51:45,440
without being paid charged for it. I add through Apple News,

990
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,159
I read the Telegraph. I read a variety of sources,

991
00:51:48,159 --> 00:51:49,679
but a lot of the stuff that's right up to

992
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:52,599
the moment I get for becks and you have to sift,

993
00:51:52,679 --> 00:51:54,360
and you have to judge, and you have to be

994
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:56,719
very careful. And that brings us to the last question

995
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:58,519
we're going to have here, which is when it comes

996
00:51:58,559 --> 00:52:00,239
to the presentation of we're getting out here, and you

997
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:02,880
can't fake an event and say that guy never threw

998
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:04,679
I think when we knew that he threw it. But

999
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:07,719
AI and the influence of it, whether or not you

1000
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,880
think what you're seeing on your screens about this particular war,

1001
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:13,119
whether or not you regard everything that you are seeing

1002
00:52:13,119 --> 00:52:16,000
as false until proved true, whether or not you're taking

1003
00:52:16,079 --> 00:52:19,559
on a case by case basis, fog of war is

1004
00:52:19,559 --> 00:52:21,360
what we always have. But how do you guys feel

1005
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:24,320
about the presentation of this one factoring in what you

1006
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:25,039
know about AI?

1007
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:32,159
Speaker 5: Well, I am so many things are showing up on

1008
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:35,119
Twitter that have video, and some of it is so

1009
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:38,519
comically bad and fake that you wonder if that's on

1010
00:52:38,559 --> 00:52:42,159
purpose that they're pranking us, right, and then other things

1011
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:43,280
you're not quite sure.

1012
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:45,719
Speaker 6: I've been worried for quite a while that I think

1013
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:46,760
we're not far away.

1014
00:52:46,519 --> 00:52:50,719
Speaker 5: From the AI productions being so accurate that it's going

1015
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:53,000
to be really difficult to tell when they're fake, because

1016
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:54,679
I mean, people who do it well are going to

1017
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:56,719
make it, you know, ninety nine percent plausible and the

1018
00:52:56,719 --> 00:52:58,039
one percent you slip in.

1019
00:53:00,079 --> 00:53:01,639
Speaker 6: And I don't know.

1020
00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:05,119
Speaker 5: I'm against regulations of these things, but I am kind

1021
00:53:05,159 --> 00:53:09,039
of open to the idea that there needs to be

1022
00:53:09,119 --> 00:53:12,000
some kind of watermark on AI productions or some bit

1023
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:14,920
of code so you can tell whether this is legitimate,

1024
00:53:15,039 --> 00:53:17,519
unadulterated video.

1025
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:18,519
Speaker 6: Or whether it has been altered in some way.

1026
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 5: I'm very hesitant about that idea, but I do think

1027
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:22,880
this is going to be a big problem going forward.

1028
00:53:23,519 --> 00:53:28,079
Speaker 1: Grow does Charles have any opinions?

1029
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 2: I don't think that the as much we can do

1030
00:53:32,079 --> 00:53:35,639
about it, and I think that it's going to lead

1031
00:53:35,679 --> 00:53:41,559
to some combination of people believing nothing and people being

1032
00:53:41,639 --> 00:53:44,880
far more judicious in what they choose to read. I

1033
00:53:44,920 --> 00:53:49,119
think that it will not destroy our culture. I think

1034
00:53:49,119 --> 00:53:52,159
it will destroy some people within our culture, much as

1035
00:53:52,199 --> 00:53:56,199
you keep hearing stories about older people on Facebook who

1036
00:53:56,320 --> 00:54:00,599
literally can't distinguish. There was a video I saw a

1037
00:54:00,639 --> 00:54:03,639
guy on a magic carpet taking down an American plane.

1038
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:07,920
Ye see this very right. We all saw it and

1039
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:10,599
said that's actually very funny. It's just that there are

1040
00:54:10,639 --> 00:54:13,639
about a million people, it seems, on Facebook that said wow,

1041
00:54:13,679 --> 00:54:14,800
look at the technology.

1042
00:54:15,559 --> 00:54:17,239
Speaker 4: So I think those people may be lost.

1043
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:19,119
Speaker 2: But I think a lot of other people are going

1044
00:54:19,199 --> 00:54:21,400
to be more judicious rather than less, and I think

1045
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:26,800
that they're going to start thinking more carefully about what

1046
00:54:27,519 --> 00:54:30,400
they read and why, and in a sense that will

1047
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:34,360
take us back, not forward. The internet made it easy

1048
00:54:34,519 --> 00:54:36,920
just to be passive. You watch as things go by,

1049
00:54:37,119 --> 00:54:39,760
you don't really worry about where it came from. Somebody

1050
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:42,199
sends you a link, you click it. It wasn't the

1051
00:54:42,239 --> 00:54:45,119
case in the fifties and the fifties people had a newspaper.

1052
00:54:45,119 --> 00:54:46,760
They got to live it every single day, and they

1053
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:49,480
trusted it until they didn't. So I think there's going

1054
00:54:49,559 --> 00:54:51,880
to be a return to that of sorts. But yes,

1055
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:53,320
there's also going to be a lot of chaos that

1056
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:54,000
will be very bad.

1057
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:58,760
Speaker 1: It's a video of a rocket hitting an American battleship

1058
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:02,599
or aircraft. Unfortunately it was a Soyez booster from the

1059
00:55:02,679 --> 00:55:06,760
seventies or those you know, those great flared engine nozzles,

1060
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:10,119
and the ship I think was Japanese, but it was

1061
00:55:10,159 --> 00:55:13,119
being shared around at something. I mean, the credulity of people.

1062
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:16,800
I mean, I'm if you showed a video of Erica

1063
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:19,840
Kirk in Tel Aviv swinging from a skyscraper top like

1064
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:22,400
King Kong, Candice oh And would probably believe it, and

1065
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:25,920
the followers would think so Otherwise, Uh well, yeah, we'll

1066
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:28,480
just have to see I mean. And every time you

1067
00:55:28,519 --> 00:55:31,519
see something now it's though, growk is this AI? And

1068
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:34,480
people trust? Win Grex says, yes, it appears to be

1069
00:55:34,519 --> 00:55:36,559
so because it's shaky and grainy and the rest of it,

1070
00:55:36,639 --> 00:55:39,760
and what you're actually seeing is something from you know,

1071
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:43,519
from the two thousand and three invasion of Iraq. Yes,

1072
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:46,920
be careful, trust, but verify. That's why we're here, of course,

1073
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:48,800
to say all those things that you can trust absolutely,

1074
00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:50,480
because we know what we're talking about and we mean

1075
00:55:50,519 --> 00:55:54,079
what we say. At least even when we just have

1076
00:55:54,119 --> 00:55:54,760
we disagreed this.

1077
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:57,480
Speaker 4: When we do, we're both write that's.

1078
00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:02,559
Speaker 1: Right, that's right. We're absolutely correct Schrodinger's podcast hosts. You might, however,

1079
00:56:02,599 --> 00:56:05,239
if you want folks to go to Apple Podcasts and say,

1080
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:07,719
my gosh, those guys are always right, even when they disagree,

1081
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:10,039
even when they're wrong, they're right in a charming fashion

1082
00:56:10,039 --> 00:56:11,880
and give us five stars or even better, you might

1083
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:14,239
want to bet a Ricochet if you haven't already. I mean,

1084
00:56:14,639 --> 00:56:17,519
how did you find this podcast anyway without going there? Right?

1085
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:20,519
And aren't you a non member just curious what goes

1086
00:56:20,559 --> 00:56:23,000
on behind the curtain, aren't you when you click that

1087
00:56:23,199 --> 00:56:27,199
member site button, frustrated when you can't go and see

1088
00:56:27,199 --> 00:56:29,760
the wonderful conversations happening there. Well, it's cheap, it's easy,

1089
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:31,840
and if you sign up, you can contribute, and you

1090
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:35,480
can write essays and let's stand alongside everybody else's and

1091
00:56:35,559 --> 00:56:38,840
you can comment, which is what keeps Ricochet nice and

1092
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:42,000
civil and decent because there's a code of contact. You know,

1093
00:56:42,039 --> 00:56:44,679
you can't can't be the jerk you are elsewhere in

1094
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:47,119
the internet and we all behave. Does that mean it's

1095
00:56:47,199 --> 00:56:49,719
dull and boring and pinkies outstretched as we have a

1096
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:51,519
cup of tit? No, not at all. Go there and

1097
00:56:51,559 --> 00:56:54,119
find out for yourself. At ricochet dot com. Gentlemen, it's

1098
00:56:54,119 --> 00:56:56,159
been a pleasure as ever. We will convene again next week.

1099
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:58,320
Lord knows what will happen between them. But to Steven

1100
00:56:58,360 --> 00:56:59,960
and California, where are you, Stephen.

1101
00:56:59,679 --> 00:57:01,599
Speaker 6: By the way, I'm in Toledo, Ohio today.

1102
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:02,719
Speaker 4: Ah.

1103
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:06,480
Speaker 1: Well, sometimes considered, I'd rather be that yes right to

1104
00:57:06,639 --> 00:57:10,679
let yes well, indeed, enjoy the glorious Spanish arrivdor. Otherwise

1105
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:13,239
there and Charles in Florida, we hats off to you.

1106
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:16,400
Me here in Minnesota, which is at the moment calm

1107
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:20,719
and tending trending, leaning towards spring, and also expected to

1108
00:57:20,719 --> 00:57:23,239
get twelve inches of snow by the weekend. Shoot me now, anyway,

1109
00:57:23,239 --> 00:57:25,239
it's been fun. We'll see everybody in the comments. At

1110
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:34,519
Ricochet four point zero ah now bye bye Ricochet, Ye

1111
00:57:36,559 --> 00:57:37,559
join the conversation