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The disappearance of a twenty one year old 37 00:01:45.760 --> 00:01:49.159 woman from a Massachusetts suburb became one of the most 38 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:54.159 discussed crimes of the twentieth century. The discussion intensified when 39 00:01:54.159 --> 00:01:56.760 the public learned that she worked as a prostitute in 40 00:01:56.840 --> 00:02:01.280 Boston's notorious red light district, the Combats, and was linked 41 00:02:01.319 --> 00:02:03.799 by a trail of blood to a famous professor from 42 00:02:03.840 --> 00:02:09.120 Tufts University. When Robin Benedict vanished, the investigation and media 43 00:02:09.199 --> 00:02:11.960 circus that gripped the city of Boston hadn't been seen 44 00:02:12.039 --> 00:02:15.080 since the days of the Boston Strangler case. On a 45 00:02:15.159 --> 00:02:18.400 Sunday morning in March nineteen eighty three, a small time 46 00:02:18.520 --> 00:02:21.520 pimp walked into a police station and claimed his girlfriend 47 00:02:21.680 --> 00:02:24.000 was missing. He said she had been on her way 48 00:02:24.039 --> 00:02:27.520 to visit a client named William Douglas. In the year 49 00:02:27.560 --> 00:02:31.800 that followed, the case drew in detectives, state troopers, scores 50 00:02:31.840 --> 00:02:35.439 of journalists, and even psychics, but Robin was never found. 51 00:02:35.680 --> 00:02:40.479 Boston Tabloid reconstructs a grizzly murder and explores one man's 52 00:02:40.520 --> 00:02:45.680 bizarre obsession. In revisiting this legendary crime, Don Stradley consulted 53 00:02:45.759 --> 00:02:50.520 journalists involved in the media frenzy, prison authorities, arresting officers, 54 00:02:50.759 --> 00:02:54.159 and psychiatrists, all in an effort to unravel a most 55 00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:58.560 tangled story. Why was the city and the nation swept 56 00:02:58.680 --> 00:03:01.960 up in this sordid tale. It remains a grim and 57 00:03:02.039 --> 00:03:05.840 fascinating moment in Boston's history. The book they were featuring 58 00:03:06.000 --> 00:03:10.240 this evening is Boston Tabloid, The Killing of Robin Benedict, 59 00:03:10.560 --> 00:03:14.280 with my special guest, journalist and author Don Stradley. Welcome 60 00:03:14.319 --> 00:03:16.400 to the program, and thank you very much for this interview, 61 00:03:16.479 --> 00:03:20.000 Don Stradley, my pleasure, Dan, thank you, thank you so much. 62 00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:23.719 Let's get right to the beginning of Boston Tabloid, and 63 00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:28.120 as you write, you introduce William Henry James Douglas born 64 00:03:28.199 --> 00:03:31.800 nineteen forty one in Saranac Lake, New York. Tell us 65 00:03:31.840 --> 00:03:36.159 about his father, Bill Senior and his mother Eleanor, and 66 00:03:36.240 --> 00:03:39.840 a little bit about their life and his early development. 67 00:03:40.080 --> 00:03:44.800 Well, Bill Douglas was this sort of child who was 68 00:03:44.879 --> 00:03:48.759 shuttled around. They lived in a few different areas in 69 00:03:49.319 --> 00:03:52.919 upstate New York. His father was I believe he was 70 00:03:52.960 --> 00:03:56.159 a plumber, but he wasn't working full time. And his 71 00:03:56.280 --> 00:04:02.199 mother was also made at near hotels. She was a 72 00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:05.319 hotel maid, and even that was not full time work either. 73 00:04:05.479 --> 00:04:09.280 So Douglas had a couple of parents who, you know, 74 00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:13.680 struggle to make ends meet. And what I noticed about 75 00:04:13.719 --> 00:04:17.439 Douglas and other criminals that I've written about, is that 76 00:04:17.759 --> 00:04:21.600 he was sort of a poor kid growing up in 77 00:04:21.639 --> 00:04:25.759 an affluent area. And I've always wondered, I've always wondered, 78 00:04:25.759 --> 00:04:28.600 does that sort of thing have an effect on kids 79 00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:32.240 as they're growing up. You know, they're constantly seeing how 80 00:04:32.319 --> 00:04:34.560 the other lives. You know, they were living in a 81 00:04:34.959 --> 00:04:37.160 very nice area, but they were sort of stuck in 82 00:04:37.199 --> 00:04:41.680 this kind of lower class kind of lifestyle. And Bill 83 00:04:42.160 --> 00:04:45.160 Bill was a bit of a spoiled kid. He was 84 00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:47.680 a bit of a strange kid. He was off and 85 00:04:47.759 --> 00:04:51.399 by himself or just stuck in the trailer with his mother, 86 00:04:51.720 --> 00:04:55.000 left to his own devices. I think because he was 87 00:04:55.040 --> 00:04:59.120 an only child and he was born to parents who 88 00:04:59.199 --> 00:05:02.040 were a bit old. They were well into their forties 89 00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:06.079 when they had him. He just grew up as a 90 00:05:05.079 --> 00:05:08.519 bit of a misfit, bit of an oddball. But he 91 00:05:08.600 --> 00:05:12.639 developed an interest in science and turned out to be 92 00:05:13.079 --> 00:05:17.079 very handy in his science classes, and he managed to 93 00:05:17.120 --> 00:05:21.319 become one of the top biology professors in the country. 94 00:05:21.759 --> 00:05:23.120 He was really cutting edge. 95 00:05:23.279 --> 00:05:27.000 You talk about earlier on, before he becomes a star 96 00:05:27.360 --> 00:05:32.360 and after he discovers this aptitude for science and specifically biology, 97 00:05:32.959 --> 00:05:36.480 is that he had discovered pornography, and you write about 98 00:05:36.519 --> 00:05:39.959 the particular type of pornography that he discovered early on. 99 00:05:40.800 --> 00:05:44.319 Yeah, he had an interest in pornography. He grew up 100 00:05:44.360 --> 00:05:48.040 in that period of time in the late fifties early 101 00:05:48.160 --> 00:05:53.800 sixties when there was just a big, massive boom in pornography, 102 00:05:54.160 --> 00:05:59.240 possibly because Playboy magazine had been such a success. Pornography 103 00:05:59.279 --> 00:06:04.319 was everywhere, magazines were sold fairly regularly, and bus stations 104 00:06:04.360 --> 00:06:08.720 and even supermarkets. But he loved pornography, and he developed 105 00:06:08.759 --> 00:06:14.600 a taste for bondage type of publications. He loved imagery 106 00:06:14.959 --> 00:06:20.279 of people being tied up and maybe tortured a little bit. 107 00:06:20.600 --> 00:06:25.319 I don't know that he ever acted out these fantasies 108 00:06:25.360 --> 00:06:30.000 that he saw portrayed in magazines, but he had an 109 00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:37.040 ongoing interest in pornography, particularly bondage, and I guess you 110 00:06:37.160 --> 00:06:40.800 might even say some of the sato masochistic publications that 111 00:06:40.839 --> 00:06:42.759 were coming out he gravitated to that. 112 00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:45.720 He read about his father dying in nineteen sixty three, 113 00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:49.639 and so he was just early twenties, and his mother 114 00:06:50.319 --> 00:06:55.360 psychologically deteriorated greatly after the death of her husband Dinj. 115 00:06:56.120 --> 00:07:01.399 Yeah, psychologically and physically. She was probably in her sixties 116 00:07:01.439 --> 00:07:05.519 at that time and was barely able to look after herself. 117 00:07:05.920 --> 00:07:09.040 I don't know if it was some sort of Parkinson's 118 00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:13.600 or Alzheimer's. It was some sort of issue that left 119 00:07:13.600 --> 00:07:16.519 her a bit of a recluse. And so suddenly the 120 00:07:16.600 --> 00:07:19.519 roles were reversed. William was now sort of the head 121 00:07:19.560 --> 00:07:21.959 of the household and he was going to college. At 122 00:07:21.959 --> 00:07:25.600 the times he was starting to branch out. He didn't 123 00:07:25.639 --> 00:07:29.759 really have time to be a doting son for his 124 00:07:29.879 --> 00:07:34.399 sickly mother. He was moving out soon and on his 125 00:07:34.439 --> 00:07:36.199 way to becoming an academic star. 126 00:07:36.439 --> 00:07:38.959 You're right that the college setting was very good for 127 00:07:39.079 --> 00:07:43.480 William and his intellect gave him an air of sophistication 128 00:07:43.600 --> 00:07:46.560 that he hadn't known before, especially due to the poverty 129 00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:47.319 that he grew up in. 130 00:07:47.519 --> 00:07:50.759 Yeah. Well, you know, that happens with a lot of people. 131 00:07:51.000 --> 00:07:55.120 I think particularly it happens with young men. You know, 132 00:07:55.160 --> 00:07:58.439 suddenly they're in a new environment and they can show 133 00:07:58.480 --> 00:08:01.879 off a little bit. Had a particular talent for science, 134 00:08:02.519 --> 00:08:04.600 and you know, I think it brought him out of 135 00:08:04.600 --> 00:08:07.600 his shell. As they say, there were a lot of 136 00:08:07.639 --> 00:08:10.079 young girls who were suddenly interested in him, which had 137 00:08:10.079 --> 00:08:13.079 never happened before, and you know, he played that for 138 00:08:13.120 --> 00:08:15.000 what it was worth. I don't think he ever became 139 00:08:15.040 --> 00:08:20.199 a ladies man. I think he remained the awkward, little 140 00:08:20.399 --> 00:08:23.639 oddball that he'd always been, but now he had a 141 00:08:23.680 --> 00:08:25.920 little bit of a personality now, a little bit of 142 00:08:25.959 --> 00:08:29.319 swagger that he could use. Was it must have been 143 00:08:29.360 --> 00:08:33.039 startling for him suddenly to be going out with women, 144 00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:36.440 Suddenly he had male friends, he joined a fraternity. I 145 00:08:36.480 --> 00:08:40.720 think he was being a young college man of the era. 146 00:08:40.840 --> 00:08:42.759 And if if you see a picture of him in 147 00:08:42.799 --> 00:08:46.159 his college yearbook, you know he's just a typical, typical 148 00:08:46.240 --> 00:08:49.480 guy from that period. You know, flat top, haircut, suit 149 00:08:49.519 --> 00:08:51.759 and tie. And he lost a lot of weight in college. 150 00:08:51.799 --> 00:08:55.000 He'd always been an overweight kid, and in college he 151 00:08:55.360 --> 00:08:58.080 slimmed down, and you know, it looked like he was, 152 00:08:58.679 --> 00:09:02.600 you know, heading into some kind of normal adulthood. 153 00:09:02.679 --> 00:09:06.519 You're right about meeting Nancy Bolton, this plane, heavy set 154 00:09:06.759 --> 00:09:10.039 and prim and proper woman. She had lost her father 155 00:09:10.120 --> 00:09:12.399 at a young age. Tell us about how they met 156 00:09:12.519 --> 00:09:15.559 and what soon happened afterwards. 157 00:09:15.960 --> 00:09:20.720 Well, she was a nursing student, I believe, and he 158 00:09:20.840 --> 00:09:24.120 was often coming in contact with nursing students, and I 159 00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:28.519 think he played on that too. He was this aspiring 160 00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:33.000 professor and aspiring scientist, and I think he liked the 161 00:09:33.039 --> 00:09:37.440 idea of nurses that would be his assistance, as well 162 00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:42.240 as maybe a wife. And yeah, they married right after college. 163 00:09:42.360 --> 00:09:44.639 I think she may have still been in college right 164 00:09:44.679 --> 00:09:48.279 after he graduated. They married, and again it looked like 165 00:09:48.399 --> 00:09:51.320 they were on their way to a pretty normal life, 166 00:09:51.720 --> 00:09:55.000 just a married couple in the late sixties by then. 167 00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:56.559 I think you're right about that. 168 00:09:56.639 --> 00:09:57.039 He was. 169 00:09:57.240 --> 00:10:00.759 He applied for and was granted a National Scienceant's Foundation 170 00:10:00.919 --> 00:10:04.519 fellowship for a year a postgraduate study at Yale. Right, 171 00:10:04.559 --> 00:10:07.519 this turned out to be a pivotal moment in his life. 172 00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:10.840 Yeah, he liked the idea that he was fitting in 173 00:10:11.159 --> 00:10:14.200 with a high browse set. You know, he was at Yale. 174 00:10:14.279 --> 00:10:17.039 Now he wasn't just going to you know, a small 175 00:10:17.120 --> 00:10:20.799 teachers college in upstate New York. He was at Yale. 176 00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:25.759 And I think that really boosted his ego. And that 177 00:10:26.200 --> 00:10:30.080 was when he started to show some of the signs 178 00:10:30.279 --> 00:10:34.919 of the aggressive ego, maniacal character that was to come 179 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:39.039 as just being exposed to the people at Yale made 180 00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:43.919 him think, yeah, he's a big shot. Now he doesn't 181 00:10:43.960 --> 00:10:46.240 have to do what other people tell him. He's a 182 00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:46.879 yalely he. 183 00:10:46.919 --> 00:10:50.639 Writ about his assent and got a research job of 184 00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:54.440 a w Alton Jones Science Center in Lake Placid. He 185 00:10:54.519 --> 00:10:59.639 became director of the center's electron microscopy facility as well 186 00:10:59.679 --> 00:11:02.919 as an associate director of education. And he made his 187 00:11:03.039 --> 00:11:07.720 name known in research circles you write, specializing in tissue culture. 188 00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:09.399 And he was well liked. 189 00:11:09.639 --> 00:11:12.559 And now he was a family man with three kids, 190 00:11:12.879 --> 00:11:15.919 and he also seemed to be a pretty good dad 191 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:19.919 and by all appearances a decent husband as well. 192 00:11:20.759 --> 00:11:25.320 Yeah, in writing this book and trying to learn what 193 00:11:25.480 --> 00:11:29.679 I could about Douglas. I really couldn't decide if he 194 00:11:30.039 --> 00:11:34.480 was a decent family man who had a dark side, 195 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:37.080 or if he was just a man with a dark 196 00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:40.360 side who happened to have a family. You know, I 197 00:11:40.559 --> 00:11:43.440 never really figured out what side of the fence I 198 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:45.399 was on, And I feel that way about a lot 199 00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:49.600 of criminals, you know. They You'll talk to some psychiatrists 200 00:11:49.639 --> 00:11:52.919 who study these types of cases and they'll say everything 201 00:11:53.240 --> 00:11:57.320 is just a ruse, you know, everything is masquerade. But 202 00:11:57.440 --> 00:12:02.360 I think he did have feel for his family and 203 00:12:02.679 --> 00:12:05.159 particularly his children. I think he wanted to be a 204 00:12:05.159 --> 00:12:07.799 good dad, even if even if it was on a 205 00:12:07.840 --> 00:12:11.480 superficial level. He wanted to present himself as a good dad, 206 00:12:11.639 --> 00:12:15.080 and he got involved in all of their activities. But 207 00:12:15.120 --> 00:12:17.759 then again, you hear about, you know, all the serial 208 00:12:17.879 --> 00:12:21.000 killers who also do the same thing. You know, from 209 00:12:21.399 --> 00:12:25.840 BTK killer to whoever else. They all seem to be 210 00:12:25.879 --> 00:12:29.559 involved in, you know, civic activities, and they do present 211 00:12:29.639 --> 00:12:32.840 themselves as members of the community. So maybe maybe that's 212 00:12:32.879 --> 00:12:35.639 what he was doing. I don't know. He was a 213 00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:36.519 hard one to read it. 214 00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:41.440 Sometimes you talk about him having some problems arising at 215 00:12:41.480 --> 00:12:45.519 Alton Jones, but he was such a highly esteemed person 216 00:12:45.559 --> 00:12:48.080 at this lab that he had a lot of free reign. 217 00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:52.120 But you talk about the Boston's combat Zone, and you 218 00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:55.200 introduce this place and describe it, So tell us about 219 00:12:55.320 --> 00:12:58.240 Boston's Red Light District, the combat Zone. 220 00:12:58.320 --> 00:13:05.080 Well, Douglas was eventually hired by Tufts University Medical School, 221 00:13:05.360 --> 00:13:09.879 and the medical school was only about a block away 222 00:13:10.399 --> 00:13:18.000 from Boston's Red Light District, which was four or five streets, 223 00:13:18.039 --> 00:13:21.000 basically a neighborhood that was set up to be the 224 00:13:21.039 --> 00:13:25.120 adult entertainment district for the city. I don't know if 225 00:13:25.159 --> 00:13:28.840 other cities had did it so deliberately, but in the 226 00:13:28.919 --> 00:13:34.360 late sixties early seventies, Boston actually designated an area to 227 00:13:34.440 --> 00:13:38.480 be the adult entertainment center, and you would see X 228 00:13:38.600 --> 00:13:46.240 rated movies, you would see exotic dancers, bars, nightclubs, peep shows, 229 00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:48.919 which I don't even know if they still exist. But 230 00:13:49.080 --> 00:13:52.080 back then, you'd pay a quarter and look through a 231 00:13:52.120 --> 00:13:54.159 hole of the wall and it'd be a girl on 232 00:13:54.200 --> 00:13:58.759 the other side doing something. And it was also heavy 233 00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:03.840 with the sex and later on the drug trade. So Douglas. 234 00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:07.720 Douglas had probably heard of the combat zone because he 235 00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:11.480 was in Providence at one point he was in Connecticut 236 00:14:11.639 --> 00:14:14.720 going to Yale. In Providence, he was going to Brown University, 237 00:14:14.759 --> 00:14:19.919 i think, and the combat zone was such an established 238 00:14:19.960 --> 00:14:23.919 area that he had known about it positive and when 239 00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:29.679 he landed at Tufts he probably quietly celebrated to himself, 240 00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:33.120 you know, not letting his wife know, but he was 241 00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:36.919 probably very happy to be near the combat zone as 242 00:14:36.919 --> 00:14:39.320 it was called, because, Yeah, right after work he could 243 00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:42.840 just put on his coat venture on out to where 244 00:14:42.840 --> 00:14:46.960 all the strippers and prostitutes were. It was paradise for 245 00:14:47.000 --> 00:14:49.759 a guy like that who had grown up as a 246 00:14:49.759 --> 00:14:52.679 pornography addict. Now he was in a way, it was 247 00:14:52.759 --> 00:14:54.519 like going to Disneyland for him. 248 00:14:54.559 --> 00:14:58.759 You talk about a particular place that became his favorite hangout, 249 00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:02.519 which was a good time. But before that, he moves 250 00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:06.879 out to a very wealthy suburb called Sharon, named Sharon, 251 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:12.600 and so everything appearances look like they've really arrived and 252 00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:18.240 achieved a certain status. Meanwhile, he was fully immersed in 253 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:21.000 going to this combat zone, which is close to where 254 00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:21.360 he worked. 255 00:15:21.639 --> 00:15:25.000 Yeah, it's true. Sharon is a beautiful suburb and at 256 00:15:25.039 --> 00:15:28.200 the time it was one of those up and coming places, 257 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:32.639 and he bought a beautiful home for his family. But 258 00:15:32.759 --> 00:15:37.559 he was also you know, just pull on exploring the 259 00:15:37.639 --> 00:15:40.720 combat zone. You know, he just had a huge appetite 260 00:15:40.799 --> 00:15:46.519 for anything pornographic. At the time, the pornographic bookshops were 261 00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:50.320 like they were almost like cathedrals. They were so enormous. 262 00:15:50.440 --> 00:15:53.519 I mean, I'm old enough, I remember you could walk 263 00:15:53.559 --> 00:15:56.559 around in the combat zone, and as I say in 264 00:15:56.600 --> 00:15:59.279 the book, it was so close to you know, the 265 00:15:59.320 --> 00:16:02.320 shopping discst in the business district that it was not 266 00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:06.639 uncommon to just see businessmen having you know, lunch in 267 00:16:06.759 --> 00:16:09.440 the zone, just going to one of the barrooms and 268 00:16:09.840 --> 00:16:12.480 having a drink under lunch hour. And you'd see little 269 00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:15.320 old ladies wandering around because you could you could get 270 00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:17.759 a good slice of pizza in that neighborhood, you know. 271 00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:22.919 And so Douglas was probably able to walk around without 272 00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:27.759 drawing much attention because a lot of everyday people were 273 00:16:27.799 --> 00:16:30.480 spotted in the zone. If you saw him in the zone, 274 00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:33.799 you wouldn't automatically think that he was up to no good. 275 00:16:34.519 --> 00:16:37.320 Chances are he may have been just on his way 276 00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:40.720 to get a beer somewhere or grab a quick lunch 277 00:16:40.840 --> 00:16:43.679 because it was near Chinatown, so you could sort of 278 00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:48.679 be anonymous, which I think he probably used that to 279 00:16:48.720 --> 00:16:51.840 his benefit. He was just a big guy walking around 280 00:16:51.879 --> 00:16:55.159 in the combat zone. Nobody really paid attention to him, 281 00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:58.320 so you could be sort of anonymous. Even if your 282 00:16:58.399 --> 00:17:01.799 friends saw you, well, they were there too, you know. 283 00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:04.200 Isn't that big a deal, right, And it was also 284 00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:07.200 the kind of place where they still had pool rooms 285 00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:11.720 and the video game Boom was just starting, but at 286 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:14.519 the time they still had pinball alleys. I don't think 287 00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:17.160 anyone under the age of forty knows what that is, 288 00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:21.599 but they were still sort of recreational places that people 289 00:17:21.640 --> 00:17:23.640 would go to. So I think he liked the zone 290 00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:26.920 because even though he knew he was looking for prostitutes, 291 00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:29.960 he could have just been a guy going out for 292 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:31.400 a drink in a game of pool. 293 00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:35.240 Let's talk about as you write, his behavior grew much 294 00:17:35.240 --> 00:17:38.200 stranger by the middle of nineteen eighty two. He started 295 00:17:38.279 --> 00:17:41.599 coming late for work, maybe an hour or more. He 296 00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:45.000 had fanciful excuses, and people in the office said it 297 00:17:45.079 --> 00:17:48.720 sounded like he was telling lies. And people discovered also 298 00:17:48.839 --> 00:17:52.440 that he was spending nights on the couch in his office. 299 00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:54.079 He looked pale. He looked sick. 300 00:17:54.279 --> 00:17:57.359 He was sweating heavily, and he would sometimes disappear in 301 00:17:57.400 --> 00:18:00.319 the middle of the day. Some of his coworkers thought 302 00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:04.599 he was overworked. Tell us about their questions about a 303 00:18:04.599 --> 00:18:07.799 mysterious grad student named Robin Benedict. 304 00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:11.039 Yeah, well, by then he was starting to burn the 305 00:18:11.079 --> 00:18:15.279 candle at both and says they say. He was spending 306 00:18:15.319 --> 00:18:17.720 all of his nights in the combat zone. And he 307 00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:21.720 met this young woman who was about twenty or twenty 308 00:18:21.720 --> 00:18:27.279 one named Robin. And he was head over heels for 309 00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:31.599 this young woman, and in order to help her make money, 310 00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:37.839 he started adding her name to his list of interns 311 00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:41.799 and employees at the school, and he would say that 312 00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:45.039 she was his assistant. He never introduced her to anybody, 313 00:18:45.079 --> 00:18:48.880 and she never came into the school, but he would 314 00:18:48.920 --> 00:18:51.319 fill out his expense report and say, oh, yes, this 315 00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:55.160 woman Robin, she works for me. We owe this much money. 316 00:18:55.839 --> 00:18:58.480 And people were getting suspicious. He didn't know what was 317 00:18:58.519 --> 00:19:01.599 going on. They just know he was. He was looking 318 00:19:01.920 --> 00:19:06.319 sickly exhausted all the time. Their suspicions were growing. 319 00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:09.480 The Good Time Charlie's is a strip club that Robin 320 00:19:09.559 --> 00:19:12.759 worked at. And this is the club that Douglas frequented 321 00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:15.640 and that's where they did meet. But you say that 322 00:19:15.799 --> 00:19:20.079 Robin had a background that included a miss SEUs and 323 00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:22.160 also so that you write that she was sort of 324 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:26.839 a hybrid of escort stripper and messus and so on. 325 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:31.200 So tell us about this relationship and what it's characterized 326 00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:33.519 by with Douglas and Robin. 327 00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:38.279 Well, she looked at him as the cash cow. You know, 328 00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:42.160 she saw this lonely guy who was fascinated by her, 329 00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:44.960 and I think she played up to it. She saw 330 00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:47.839 him as an easy target. I don't think she wanted 331 00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:51.200 to be in the sex trade permanently. I think she 332 00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:54.799 wanted to get in there, make a big score, and 333 00:19:54.839 --> 00:19:57.480 then go on to do something else. That was what 334 00:19:57.559 --> 00:20:00.039 she kept saying. Now, of course, a lot of a 335 00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:02.319 lot of women in the sex trades say the same thing, 336 00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:04.960 you know, they say, oh, I'm only doing this part time. 337 00:20:05.119 --> 00:20:08.119 But she looked at him as her big score, and 338 00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:11.359 he was giving her a lot of money. He would 339 00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:14.400 set up meetings with her throughout the day, you know, 340 00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:17.000 at night. He wanted to be the first guy she 341 00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:22.759 saw when she started her shift, so to speak, Yes, 342 00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:26.359 and he wanted to be the last guy she saw 343 00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:30.200 when she knocked off for the evening at two in 344 00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:33.319 the morning or whenever it was. So they would set 345 00:20:33.400 --> 00:20:37.880 up trysts so he could always be in her sight line. 346 00:20:38.079 --> 00:20:42.160 And it was so strange that after a while it 347 00:20:42.200 --> 00:20:46.559 wasn't even sexual, which is one of the oddities their relationship. 348 00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:49.839 He was paying just for her company. At some points 349 00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:53.759 he wouldn't even set up sexual encounter. He just wanted 350 00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:56.319 her company. He wanted to take her out for a 351 00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:59.720 drink or dinner, go sit in the park on a 352 00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:02.160 park bench, and just be close to her. He was 353 00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:05.799 fascinated by her, so you know, she didn't play into 354 00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:10.119 his bondage fantasies. It's not like he had his pornographic 355 00:21:10.200 --> 00:21:14.640 fantasies fired up by her. He kind of looked at 356 00:21:14.680 --> 00:21:18.799 her as almost some sort of you know, angelic figure. 357 00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:23.440 Maybe he started out thinking of her in more pornographic terms, 358 00:21:23.720 --> 00:21:26.200 but in a while he looked at her in a 359 00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:27.279 more angelic way. 360 00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:31.359 You write in this book that Robin had a life 361 00:21:31.480 --> 00:21:35.400 that was unusual for somebody that ended up in sex work, 362 00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:39.000 especially at this younger age. But you talk about that 363 00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:43.000 she had an affair with a New England's Patriot linebacker 364 00:21:43.319 --> 00:21:46.079 and that she adapted to his religion. 365 00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:47.680 He was a Jehovah witness. 366 00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:51.720 And then he went back to his wife and his child. 367 00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:54.519 She had asked him if they could have a child together. 368 00:21:54.599 --> 00:21:57.599 He was not interested. And then while she was going 369 00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:01.799 out with this person the Acoustic, he was approached by 370 00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:03.480 a person named JR. 371 00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:05.359 Tell us about JR. 372 00:22:05.599 --> 00:22:11.160 And tell us about their meeting and what happened afterwards. 373 00:22:11.559 --> 00:22:14.759 Well, Robin had been sort of the All American girl 374 00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:17.279 in a way. That was how a lot of people 375 00:22:17.319 --> 00:22:20.160 remember her. She was, you know, she was in the 376 00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:24.079 you know, the marching band and the drum and Bugle corp, 377 00:22:24.200 --> 00:22:27.400 that kind of thing. And she had always been interested 378 00:22:27.519 --> 00:22:29.799 in art and she wanted to go to art school. 379 00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:33.759 She had a very sort of suburban all American childhood, 380 00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:37.119 but she grew up in kind of a rough area, 381 00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:40.279 an area in Massachusetts that's a bit north of Boston, 382 00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:43.680 which is at the time was known for a lot 383 00:22:43.720 --> 00:22:46.880 of drugs, a lot of sex trade. So she was 384 00:22:46.960 --> 00:22:49.400 even though she was an All American kind of kid, 385 00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:52.160 she was in an area that was a bit rough, 386 00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:57.559 and she wanted out. She wanted glamor, she wanted money, 387 00:22:58.039 --> 00:23:02.559 and she wanted it as quickly as possible. This character, JR. 388 00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:07.880 Was a small time pimp and he knew some players 389 00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:10.400 on the New England Patriots, and he was one of 390 00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:14.960 those characters who was always hanging around guys who had 391 00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:17.160 some money and liked to party, and he would get girls. 392 00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:21.599 He'd bring in the females, and he saw Robin at 393 00:23:21.640 --> 00:23:26.119 a party and you know, nobody has it documented obviously, 394 00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:30.319 you know, there's no tape recording what happened. But apparently 395 00:23:30.359 --> 00:23:34.920 he just approached Robin and sort of put the idea 396 00:23:34.960 --> 00:23:38.079 in her head that she could make money working for him. 397 00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:40.319 But there was the other side of that. There was 398 00:23:40.359 --> 00:23:44.559 a detective who worked on the Caves who also claimed 399 00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:47.359 Robin had been dabbling in sex work while she was 400 00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:50.200 still in high school before she met this guy. So 401 00:23:50.400 --> 00:23:53.920