Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the India Today Business Today's studio
Speaker 1: here at the World Economic Forum in Davos. Zarabian with
Speaker 1: me now Eric Akudin, the CEO of Global Telecom major Ericson, Welcome.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much for your time.
Speaker 1: Eric, I want to begin by asking you about the
Speaker 1: latest breakthrough that you can talk about to set up
Speaker 1: this conversation as far as telecom is concerned, because the
Speaker 1: big headline is the age of AI.
Speaker 2: But we must not forget that.
Speaker 1: Everything that constitutes the digital and the AI world today
Speaker 1: has been built on the backbone of absolutely fantastic networks
Speaker 1: and you as a company have led that for decades.
Speaker 2: Now, how do you.
Speaker 1: Talk about the latest breakthrough technological advancements in the world
Speaker 1: of telecom as of today.
Speaker 3: So here in Davos, we talk a lot about return
Speaker 3: on investment on AI. We talk about AI diffusion, how
Speaker 3: to get AI out and really create the value.
Speaker 2: I think we see that certainly this.
Speaker 3: Year will be the year when you get more clear return,
Speaker 3: but you also start to broaden applicability in enterprises. Workflows
Speaker 3: with identic AI are coming online and clearly you will
Speaker 3: see a lot of change in how we approach work
Speaker 3: but AI in the networks has actually been there for
Speaker 3: some time, so we can talk about breakthroughs. But I
Speaker 3: also think we need to talk about the fact that
Speaker 3: five E to your point, really good five Y networks
Speaker 3: and the networks that can be programmable so that you
Speaker 3: can set up the kind of network performance that the
Speaker 3: application need. Networks that are pervasive. That is really the
Speaker 3: foundation actually also for AI. So I think that now
Speaker 3: we'll come to a point with gen AI and also
Speaker 3: gentic AI and soon physical AI that will demand even.
Speaker 2: More from the network.
Speaker 3: So think about that best network for AI that itself
Speaker 3: needs to be AI powered energy consumption, better user experience,
Speaker 3: better total cost of ownership, simpler to create new services
Speaker 3: on the fly. AI is already powering the five D networks,
Speaker 3: so you have AI powered five D networks. So some
Speaker 3: of these technologies that we now talk about moving across society,
Speaker 3: they have already started to move into the network. More
Speaker 3: inference meaning AI generation rather than training, and that needs
Speaker 3: to be distributed. You don't only do that in the
Speaker 3: data center centraly. You do it distributed in the infrastructure
Speaker 3: of course, in your glasses and the phones, but you
Speaker 3: also do it in the network.
Speaker 2: So the network becomes a host for.
Speaker 3: Inference, and that inference then needs to be energyficient because
Speaker 3: obviously this is one of the key criterias to optimize for,
Speaker 3: but also the cost, the tokens per dollar per what
Speaker 3: needs to be optimized. So there are breakthroughs in terms
Speaker 3: of bringing AI into the network. AI ran in five
Speaker 3: G today and bringing these AI workloads onto the network.
Speaker 3: But then I think that I'm super excited about what
Speaker 3: networks will be used for. Today five D is used
Speaker 3: for consumers, for enterprises, for SMBs, governments, public safety, also defense.
Speaker 2: In the future, the networks will really be used.
Speaker 3: Also as a sensor finding out not to get perhaps
Speaker 3: run over in a crossing in the city, or making
Speaker 3: drone surveillance. I mean, there are lots of things that
Speaker 3: the network will do that we haven't thought of before.
Speaker 3: So some of those breakthroughs we are now showing for
Speaker 3: lead customers and of course they will be making their
Speaker 3: way into the network over the coming period, and even.
Speaker 1: Simpler things but that impact common users every day basis,
Speaker 1: which is spam calls for example.
Speaker 2: It's an excellent example. Fraud prevention in.
Speaker 3: Today's society is a big topics for consumers, but Ultimately
Speaker 3: it's actually for the reputation of the bank or the
Speaker 3: financial service. Can you trust that this transaction actually works?
Speaker 3: Is this payment legitimate? All of those things the network
Speaker 3: can now start to serve up. We call it fraud prevention,
Speaker 3: but it's actually a set of network capabilities served up
Speaker 3: over network APIs on the ericson Varnas platform provided to
Speaker 3: application developers. Whether you're building an app for the bank
Speaker 3: of financial services, you can now start to tap into
Speaker 3: networks not just in India, not just in US, but
Speaker 3: across the world because these networks are becoming open programmable
Speaker 3: through that network aggregation or the network API layer. And
Speaker 3: I think that the value for example banks and financial institutions,
Speaker 3: but frankly enterprises everyone of having strong security, strong identity management,
Speaker 3: and for example, fraud prevention. That's not just a consumer service.
Speaker 3: Those kind of services will be for basically everything.
Speaker 1: Is the day near or far when I will never
Speaker 1: receive any spam call because of what my telecom service
Speaker 1: provider is doing with the implementation of EI reading out
Speaker 1: spam from the real actual calls.
Speaker 2: It's not very far out.
Speaker 3: But I think when you think about spam calls, even
Speaker 3: if you can filter out the spam calls. Would that
Speaker 3: be enough? You may have a legitimate caller looks really
Speaker 3: looks like everything is perfect.
Speaker 1: There's this very scary trend of cyber arrest. People get
Speaker 1: a call on a video call, they're made to believe
Speaker 1: that they are being investigated by a security agency, and
Speaker 1: then they are made to empty their bank accounts. It's
Speaker 1: actually very very scary. So that's a very good point
Speaker 1: that you make.
Speaker 2: It is scary.
Speaker 3: So you actually need to get support from the network
Speaker 3: in terms of not just weeding out the simple part,
Speaker 3: but also going into the fake part, where actually AI
Speaker 3: will help in a big way because AI will will
Speaker 3: actually help to detect but also to warn consumers that
Speaker 3: this might actually be something you should not engage in.
Speaker 1: Eric just before you, we had the chief Minister of
Speaker 1: one of the largest economy state economies in India, Maarashta
Speaker 1: here with us. And before that underpretation, they all speak
Speaker 1: in terms of ease of speed of doing business. In
Speaker 1: the telecom world, speed of networks, a speed of data,
Speaker 1: the volume of data and the bandwidth that you would
Speaker 1: get was always spoken about. Has that world shifted away
Speaker 1: from speed to smartness? The capability explain that dot out
Speaker 1: for the average viewers.
Speaker 3: It's so great that you're picking up on that because
Speaker 3: here in the hours we talk about AI, but AI
Speaker 3: without that advanced connectivity will only go so far to
Speaker 3: get it to full diffusion. You need that better AI network,
Speaker 3: AI optimized network. So it used to be about downlink
Speaker 3: because video lots of data coming your way to the smartphone.
Speaker 3: Now with the glasses, the sensors and devices the autonomous vehicles,
Speaker 3: it's going to be much more traffic going from the
Speaker 3: device up to the AI that is typically on the
Speaker 3: network's iron on the cloud side, So you need to
Speaker 3: rebalance uplink and down link. Networks need to be programmable
Speaker 3: to handle that, but they also need to be dimensioned
Speaker 3: for the better uplink, the lower latency, the capabilities that
Speaker 3: are much more tuned to AI, not just the NAI
Speaker 3: but AI agents. And what is an AI agent. Well,
Speaker 3: it's a small worker typically talking to many other agents
Speaker 3: and that becomes a shatty conversation between AI agents. So
Speaker 3: it's a lot of traffic going back and forth between
Speaker 3: sensors and back end and a network and all that.
Speaker 3: So that requires that's actually completely different network traffic pattern.
Speaker 3: Networks need to be more of an intelligent fabric now
Speaker 3: than ever less about a pipe down to the smartphone.
Speaker 3: And I think we're well on the way to create
Speaker 3: that intelligent fabric for five.
Speaker 2: You now.
Speaker 3: Very soon for an AI optimized AI powered five and
Speaker 3: then onward to AI native sixty. So I think you're
Speaker 3: you're basically tapping into the coming three five years in
Speaker 3: terms of the intelligent fabric.
Speaker 2: What can the fabric do for you?
Speaker 3: Well, certainly guarantee that you have good connectivity wherever you
Speaker 3: need it the uplink down link, but it can also
Speaker 3: be a source of trust and security, and that's back
Speaker 3: to your discussion around fraud prevention or working with the
Speaker 3: real consumers and their concerns. So the network is already
Speaker 3: an intelligent fabric, but we will see much more of
Speaker 3: that in the coming years.
Speaker 1: Eric, you spoke about what the network can do for
Speaker 1: a user. Let me ask you what an AI enabled
Speaker 1: or an AI ready network will mean for the operator.
Speaker 1: The reason I ask you this question is that when
Speaker 1: it comes to r o I companies, and I'm specifically
Speaker 1: talking about India, I've invested billions of dollars both on
Speaker 1: the network on the spectrum. Companies like you actually make
Speaker 1: it happen because you do the technology. What does AI
Speaker 1: mean for the network? Will it continue? Will it be
Speaker 1: a cost heed or can they see a good Auto
Speaker 1: II scenario?
Speaker 2: We see those and I gave some example.
Speaker 3: I think about AI that is embedded into networks that
Speaker 3: could increase efficiency, capacity, spectrum efficiency, and that brings TCO savings.
Speaker 3: You can create better user experience with AI. In fact,
Speaker 3: moving to what we call autonomous networks, autonomous networks level four,
Speaker 3: which is almost self driving, you still need the human
Speaker 3: in the loop to make the final decision. The operators
Speaker 3: still need to decide ultimately whether a change should be implemented,
Speaker 3: but you get help with AI and autonomy for everything
Speaker 3: else that is now per domain showing these kind of
Speaker 3: gains and savings. I think it's much more exciting on
Speaker 3: the other side because it is an opportunity to grow
Speaker 3: the business. Think about India where past four hundred million
Speaker 3: five year subscriptions is going for one billion seed in
Speaker 3: just another five years time. So five year subscriptions continue
Speaker 3: to grow, there will be more differentiated. Every application, every agent,
Speaker 3: every human wants have different things. You have connecting homes, households,
Speaker 3: fixed wireless access, it's booming in India. To be able
Speaker 3: to handle all these service categories, automake it, do it
Speaker 3: autonomously in the network with sort of full oversight, of course,
Speaker 3: but to be able to grow the business instantly you
Speaker 3: have that kind of speed of business development. To your
Speaker 3: point earlier, that's going to be so much more important.
Speaker 3: Speed of the network is important, will remain, but speed
Speaker 3: of doing business, creating new businesses, setting up new network slices,
Speaker 3: all of these things is really whether the big you
Speaker 3: could say gain will come. So business opportunity moving to
Speaker 3: this autonomous network level, for I think is more important.
Speaker 3: In fact, if you take it one step further, why
Speaker 3: wouldn't you want every agent, every application, every sensor to
Speaker 3: have its tailored experience or user experience. You need to
Speaker 3: do that. That scale massively complex. But with AI, we
Speaker 3: can do it in the network. So then you grow
Speaker 3: your business by offering these services to enterprises, SMB's governments,
Speaker 3: everyone can actually get the service that they need and want,
Speaker 3: and of course I can pay for it in real time.
Speaker 1: I've spoken to you about this in the past, which
Speaker 1: is the advent of six G. From the Indian policy
Speaker 1: point of view, there is some work that is underway.
Speaker 1: You're the CITO of ericson, So I don't want to
Speaker 1: focus on the business case, but more on the technology
Speaker 1: and the evolution roadmap five D. Like you said, one
Speaker 1: billion users in India, but six G at some point
Speaker 1: is going to happen. What can you offer us in
Speaker 1: terms of an update about the path on the road
Speaker 1: to six G and the future that you see panning out.
Speaker 3: So the one billion that I mentioned, one billion subscriptions,
Speaker 3: that would be five year subscriptions. I mean, of course
Speaker 3: plenty of four year subscriptions today, but that's in just
Speaker 3: five years time. So think about five years out. Humors
Speaker 3: will basically be provided with five G. But then there
Speaker 3: is opportunity to make a further evolution from AI powered
Speaker 3: five G to that AI native sixty. And if you've
Speaker 3: done the business development, if you've done the upgrade to
Speaker 3: the network, the better network, then it's actually a smooth
Speaker 3: upgrade when you go into sixty, whether you decide to
Speaker 3: do that five years from now or a little bit earlier.
Speaker 3: And the reason I talk about it as different timelines
Speaker 3: is that we have started standardization of sixty, we have
Speaker 3: the ecosystem coming together. What is required from the ship sets.
Speaker 3: What's required from the networks, what's required from the enterprise
Speaker 3: is that actually it's going to consume these sixty or
Speaker 3: upgraded network services to make sure that this is a
Speaker 3: business driven transition to sixty rather than the standards or
Speaker 3: technology driven transition. So making that work already now in
Speaker 3: five D is critical, and I think India is really
Speaker 3: showing the way here with a better five D taking
Speaker 3: these step wise introduction of sixty. But having said that's it,
Speaker 3: I think what India is doing is great, which is
Speaker 3: to take a real stab at sixty, saying that sixty
Speaker 3: is important. Innovation is important, and wireless it's important for society,
Speaker 3: it's important for AI, it's important for everything we want
Speaker 3: to do.
Speaker 2: So we want to be early.
Speaker 3: So we are engaging with the Indian ecosystem government of course,
Speaker 3: but also universities, partners are customers, which are by the
Speaker 3: way leaders in the world now when it comes to
Speaker 3: five D to make sure that they have a path
Speaker 3: towards sixty. And that's sixty, we'll offer you maybe ten
Speaker 3: times better uplink performance, which would be needed for all
Speaker 3: the AI agents and all the physical AI connectivity. It
Speaker 3: will offer better spectrum efficiency. It will offer sensing, as
Speaker 3: I mentioned, on a wide scale. We already start to
Speaker 3: get that in five D, but you will get that
Speaker 3: on a wide scale in sixty. So there will be
Speaker 3: upgrade packages when you get to sixty. And my understanding
Speaker 3: from the sixty work, from the work we do with
Speaker 3: the Indian government, is that India has decided to be
Speaker 3: among the first, if not the first, in many of
Speaker 3: these areas, and of course we very much would like
Speaker 3: to be part of and support that with our customers
Speaker 3: and with the ecosystem. Sixty and an Ai Native sixty
Speaker 3: is really powering enterprises, SMB's government, certainly defense. So it's
Speaker 3: a much broader thing than forty or five D.
Speaker 1: Ever, was every conversation that I have with the cito
Speaker 1: of Ericson is a conversation where I learned new things.
Speaker 1: In an earlier life, I was a telecom reporter, so
Speaker 1: conversations like this with Eric are always fascinating. I wish
Speaker 1: we could continue it longer, but we've run out of
Speaker 1: time on this conversation. Eric, I thank you for your
Speaker 1: time with us today. Once again, with that, it's a
Speaker 1: wrap on this conversation. We'll be back with more until then, goodbye,