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<v Speaker 1>Hello, and welcome to the India Today Business Today's studio

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<v Speaker 1>here at the World Economic Forum in Davos. Zarabian with

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<v Speaker 1>me now Eric Akudin, the CEO of Global Telecom major Ericson, Welcome.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you very much for your time.

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<v Speaker 1>Eric, I want to begin by asking you about the

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<v Speaker 1>latest breakthrough that you can talk about to set up

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<v Speaker 1>this conversation as far as telecom is concerned, because the

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<v Speaker 1>big headline is the age of AI.

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<v Speaker 2>But we must not forget that.

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<v Speaker 1>Everything that constitutes the digital and the AI world today

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<v Speaker 1>has been built on the backbone of absolutely fantastic networks

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<v Speaker 1>and you as a company have led that for decades.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, how do you.

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<v Speaker 1>Talk about the latest breakthrough technological advancements in the world

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<v Speaker 1>of telecom as of today.

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<v Speaker 3>So here in Davos, we talk a lot about return

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<v Speaker 3>on investment on AI. We talk about AI diffusion, how

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<v Speaker 3>to get AI out and really create the value.

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<v Speaker 2>I think we see that certainly this.

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<v Speaker 3>Year will be the year when you get more clear return,

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<v Speaker 3>but you also start to broaden applicability in enterprises. Workflows

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<v Speaker 3>with identic AI are coming online and clearly you will

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<v Speaker 3>see a lot of change in how we approach work

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<v Speaker 3>but AI in the networks has actually been there for

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<v Speaker 3>some time, so we can talk about breakthroughs. But I

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<v Speaker 3>also think we need to talk about the fact that

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<v Speaker 3>five E to your point, really good five Y networks

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<v Speaker 3>and the networks that can be programmable so that you

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<v Speaker 3>can set up the kind of network performance that the

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<v Speaker 3>application need. Networks that are pervasive. That is really the

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<v Speaker 3>foundation actually also for AI. So I think that now

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<v Speaker 3>we'll come to a point with gen AI and also

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<v Speaker 3>gentic AI and soon physical AI that will demand even.

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<v Speaker 2>More from the network.

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<v Speaker 3>So think about that best network for AI that itself

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<v Speaker 3>needs to be AI powered energy consumption, better user experience,

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<v Speaker 3>better total cost of ownership, simpler to create new services

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<v Speaker 3>on the fly. AI is already powering the five D networks,

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<v Speaker 3>so you have AI powered five D networks. So some

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<v Speaker 3>of these technologies that we now talk about moving across society,

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<v Speaker 3>they have already started to move into the network. More

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<v Speaker 3>inference meaning AI generation rather than training, and that needs

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<v Speaker 3>to be distributed. You don't only do that in the

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<v Speaker 3>data center centraly. You do it distributed in the infrastructure

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<v Speaker 3>of course, in your glasses and the phones, but you

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<v Speaker 3>also do it in the network.

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<v Speaker 2>So the network becomes a host for.

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<v Speaker 3>Inference, and that inference then needs to be energyficient because

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<v Speaker 3>obviously this is one of the key criterias to optimize for,

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<v Speaker 3>but also the cost, the tokens per dollar per what

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<v Speaker 3>needs to be optimized. So there are breakthroughs in terms

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<v Speaker 3>of bringing AI into the network. AI ran in five

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<v Speaker 3>G today and bringing these AI workloads onto the network.

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<v Speaker 3>But then I think that I'm super excited about what

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<v Speaker 3>networks will be used for. Today five D is used

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<v Speaker 3>for consumers, for enterprises, for SMBs, governments, public safety, also defense.

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<v Speaker 2>In the future, the networks will really be used.

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<v Speaker 3>Also as a sensor finding out not to get perhaps

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<v Speaker 3>run over in a crossing in the city, or making

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<v Speaker 3>drone surveillance. I mean, there are lots of things that

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<v Speaker 3>the network will do that we haven't thought of before.

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<v Speaker 3>So some of those breakthroughs we are now showing for

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<v Speaker 3>lead customers and of course they will be making their

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<v Speaker 3>way into the network over the coming period, and even.

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<v Speaker 1>Simpler things but that impact common users every day basis,

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<v Speaker 1>which is spam calls for example.

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<v Speaker 2>It's an excellent example. Fraud prevention in.

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<v Speaker 3>Today's society is a big topics for consumers, but Ultimately

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<v Speaker 3>it's actually for the reputation of the bank or the

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<v Speaker 3>financial service. Can you trust that this transaction actually works?

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<v Speaker 3>Is this payment legitimate? All of those things the network

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<v Speaker 3>can now start to serve up. We call it fraud prevention,

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<v Speaker 3>but it's actually a set of network capabilities served up

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<v Speaker 3>over network APIs on the ericson Varnas platform provided to

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<v Speaker 3>application developers. Whether you're building an app for the bank

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<v Speaker 3>of financial services, you can now start to tap into

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<v Speaker 3>networks not just in India, not just in US, but

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<v Speaker 3>across the world because these networks are becoming open programmable

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<v Speaker 3>through that network aggregation or the network API layer. And

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<v Speaker 3>I think that the value for example banks and financial institutions,

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<v Speaker 3>but frankly enterprises everyone of having strong security, strong identity management,

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<v Speaker 3>and for example, fraud prevention. That's not just a consumer service.

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<v Speaker 3>Those kind of services will be for basically everything.

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<v Speaker 1>Is the day near or far when I will never

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<v Speaker 1>receive any spam call because of what my telecom service

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<v Speaker 1>provider is doing with the implementation of EI reading out

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<v Speaker 1>spam from the real actual calls.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not very far out.

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<v Speaker 3>But I think when you think about spam calls, even

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<v Speaker 3>if you can filter out the spam calls. Would that

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<v Speaker 3>be enough? You may have a legitimate caller looks really

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<v Speaker 3>looks like everything is perfect.

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<v Speaker 1>There's this very scary trend of cyber arrest. People get

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<v Speaker 1>a call on a video call, they're made to believe

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<v Speaker 1>that they are being investigated by a security agency, and

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<v Speaker 1>then they are made to empty their bank accounts. It's

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<v Speaker 1>actually very very scary. So that's a very good point

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<v Speaker 1>that you make.

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<v Speaker 2>It is scary.

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<v Speaker 3>So you actually need to get support from the network

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<v Speaker 3>in terms of not just weeding out the simple part,

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<v Speaker 3>but also going into the fake part, where actually AI

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<v Speaker 3>will help in a big way because AI will will

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<v Speaker 3>actually help to detect but also to warn consumers that

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<v Speaker 3>this might actually be something you should not engage in.

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<v Speaker 1>Eric just before you, we had the chief Minister of

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<v Speaker 1>one of the largest economy state economies in India, Maarashta

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<v Speaker 1>here with us. And before that underpretation, they all speak

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<v Speaker 1>in terms of ease of speed of doing business. In

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<v Speaker 1>the telecom world, speed of networks, a speed of data,

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<v Speaker 1>the volume of data and the bandwidth that you would

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<v Speaker 1>get was always spoken about. Has that world shifted away

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<v Speaker 1>from speed to smartness? The capability explain that dot out

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<v Speaker 1>for the average viewers.

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<v Speaker 3>It's so great that you're picking up on that because

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<v Speaker 3>here in the hours we talk about AI, but AI

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<v Speaker 3>without that advanced connectivity will only go so far to

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<v Speaker 3>get it to full diffusion. You need that better AI network,

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<v Speaker 3>AI optimized network. So it used to be about downlink

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<v Speaker 3>because video lots of data coming your way to the smartphone.

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<v Speaker 3>Now with the glasses, the sensors and devices the autonomous vehicles,

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<v Speaker 3>it's going to be much more traffic going from the

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<v Speaker 3>device up to the AI that is typically on the

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<v Speaker 3>network's iron on the cloud side, So you need to

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<v Speaker 3>rebalance uplink and down link. Networks need to be programmable

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<v Speaker 3>to handle that, but they also need to be dimensioned

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<v Speaker 3>for the better uplink, the lower latency, the capabilities that

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<v Speaker 3>are much more tuned to AI, not just the NAI

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<v Speaker 3>but AI agents. And what is an AI agent. Well,

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<v Speaker 3>it's a small worker typically talking to many other agents

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<v Speaker 3>and that becomes a shatty conversation between AI agents. So

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<v Speaker 3>it's a lot of traffic going back and forth between

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<v Speaker 3>sensors and back end and a network and all that.

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<v Speaker 3>So that requires that's actually completely different network traffic pattern.

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<v Speaker 3>Networks need to be more of an intelligent fabric now

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<v Speaker 3>than ever less about a pipe down to the smartphone.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think we're well on the way to create

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<v Speaker 3>that intelligent fabric for five.

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<v Speaker 2>You now.

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<v Speaker 3>Very soon for an AI optimized AI powered five and

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<v Speaker 3>then onward to AI native sixty. So I think you're

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<v Speaker 3>you're basically tapping into the coming three five years in

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<v Speaker 3>terms of the intelligent fabric.

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<v Speaker 2>What can the fabric do for you?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, certainly guarantee that you have good connectivity wherever you

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<v Speaker 3>need it the uplink down link, but it can also

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<v Speaker 3>be a source of trust and security, and that's back

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<v Speaker 3>to your discussion around fraud prevention or working with the

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<v Speaker 3>real consumers and their concerns. So the network is already

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<v Speaker 3>an intelligent fabric, but we will see much more of

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<v Speaker 3>that in the coming years.

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<v Speaker 1>Eric, you spoke about what the network can do for

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<v Speaker 1>a user. Let me ask you what an AI enabled

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<v Speaker 1>or an AI ready network will mean for the operator.

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<v Speaker 1>The reason I ask you this question is that when

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<v Speaker 1>it comes to r o I companies, and I'm specifically

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<v Speaker 1>talking about India, I've invested billions of dollars both on

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<v Speaker 1>the network on the spectrum. Companies like you actually make

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<v Speaker 1>it happen because you do the technology. What does AI

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<v Speaker 1>mean for the network? Will it continue? Will it be

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<v Speaker 1>a cost heed or can they see a good Auto

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<v Speaker 1>II scenario?

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<v Speaker 2>We see those and I gave some example.

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<v Speaker 3>I think about AI that is embedded into networks that

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<v Speaker 3>could increase efficiency, capacity, spectrum efficiency, and that brings TCO savings.

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<v Speaker 3>You can create better user experience with AI. In fact,

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<v Speaker 3>moving to what we call autonomous networks, autonomous networks level four,

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<v Speaker 3>which is almost self driving, you still need the human

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<v Speaker 3>in the loop to make the final decision. The operators

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<v Speaker 3>still need to decide ultimately whether a change should be implemented,

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<v Speaker 3>but you get help with AI and autonomy for everything

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<v Speaker 3>else that is now per domain showing these kind of

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<v Speaker 3>gains and savings. I think it's much more exciting on

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<v Speaker 3>the other side because it is an opportunity to grow

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<v Speaker 3>the business. Think about India where past four hundred million

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<v Speaker 3>five year subscriptions is going for one billion seed in

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<v Speaker 3>just another five years time. So five year subscriptions continue

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<v Speaker 3>to grow, there will be more differentiated. Every application, every agent,

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<v Speaker 3>every human wants have different things. You have connecting homes, households,

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<v Speaker 3>fixed wireless access, it's booming in India. To be able

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<v Speaker 3>to handle all these service categories, automake it, do it

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<v Speaker 3>autonomously in the network with sort of full oversight, of course,

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<v Speaker 3>but to be able to grow the business instantly you

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<v Speaker 3>have that kind of speed of business development. To your

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<v Speaker 3>point earlier, that's going to be so much more important.

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<v Speaker 3>Speed of the network is important, will remain, but speed

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<v Speaker 3>of doing business, creating new businesses, setting up new network slices,

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<v Speaker 3>all of these things is really whether the big you

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<v Speaker 3>could say gain will come. So business opportunity moving to

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<v Speaker 3>this autonomous network level, for I think is more important.

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<v Speaker 3>In fact, if you take it one step further, why

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<v Speaker 3>wouldn't you want every agent, every application, every sensor to

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<v Speaker 3>have its tailored experience or user experience. You need to

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<v Speaker 3>do that. That scale massively complex. But with AI, we

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<v Speaker 3>can do it in the network. So then you grow

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<v Speaker 3>your business by offering these services to enterprises, SMB's governments,

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<v Speaker 3>everyone can actually get the service that they need and want,

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<v Speaker 3>and of course I can pay for it in real time.

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<v Speaker 1>I've spoken to you about this in the past, which

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<v Speaker 1>is the advent of six G. From the Indian policy

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<v Speaker 1>point of view, there is some work that is underway.

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<v Speaker 1>You're the CITO of ericson, So I don't want to

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<v Speaker 1>focus on the business case, but more on the technology

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<v Speaker 1>and the evolution roadmap five D. Like you said, one

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<v Speaker 1>billion users in India, but six G at some point

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<v Speaker 1>is going to happen. What can you offer us in

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<v Speaker 1>terms of an update about the path on the road

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<v Speaker 1>to six G and the future that you see panning out.

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<v Speaker 3>So the one billion that I mentioned, one billion subscriptions,

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<v Speaker 3>that would be five year subscriptions. I mean, of course

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<v Speaker 3>plenty of four year subscriptions today, but that's in just

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<v Speaker 3>five years time. So think about five years out. Humors

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<v Speaker 3>will basically be provided with five G. But then there

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<v Speaker 3>is opportunity to make a further evolution from AI powered

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<v Speaker 3>five G to that AI native sixty. And if you've

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<v Speaker 3>done the business development, if you've done the upgrade to

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<v Speaker 3>the network, the better network, then it's actually a smooth

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<v Speaker 3>upgrade when you go into sixty, whether you decide to

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<v Speaker 3>do that five years from now or a little bit earlier.

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<v Speaker 3>And the reason I talk about it as different timelines

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<v Speaker 3>is that we have started standardization of sixty, we have

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<v Speaker 3>the ecosystem coming together. What is required from the ship sets.

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<v Speaker 3>What's required from the networks, what's required from the enterprise

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<v Speaker 3>is that actually it's going to consume these sixty or

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<v Speaker 3>upgraded network services to make sure that this is a

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<v Speaker 3>business driven transition to sixty rather than the standards or

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<v Speaker 3>technology driven transition. So making that work already now in

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<v Speaker 3>five D is critical, and I think India is really

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<v Speaker 3>showing the way here with a better five D taking

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<v Speaker 3>these step wise introduction of sixty. But having said that's it,

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<v Speaker 3>I think what India is doing is great, which is

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<v Speaker 3>to take a real stab at sixty, saying that sixty

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<v Speaker 3>is important. Innovation is important, and wireless it's important for society,

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<v Speaker 3>it's important for AI, it's important for everything we want

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<v Speaker 3>to do.

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<v Speaker 2>So we want to be early.

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<v Speaker 3>So we are engaging with the Indian ecosystem government of course,

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<v Speaker 3>but also universities, partners are customers, which are by the

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<v Speaker 3>way leaders in the world now when it comes to

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<v Speaker 3>five D to make sure that they have a path

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<v Speaker 3>towards sixty. And that's sixty, we'll offer you maybe ten

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<v Speaker 3>times better uplink performance, which would be needed for all

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<v Speaker 3>the AI agents and all the physical AI connectivity. It

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<v Speaker 3>will offer better spectrum efficiency. It will offer sensing, as

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<v Speaker 3>I mentioned, on a wide scale. We already start to

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<v Speaker 3>get that in five D, but you will get that

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<v Speaker 3>on a wide scale in sixty. So there will be

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<v Speaker 3>upgrade packages when you get to sixty. And my understanding

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<v Speaker 3>from the sixty work, from the work we do with

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<v Speaker 3>the Indian government, is that India has decided to be

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<v Speaker 3>among the first, if not the first, in many of

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<v Speaker 3>these areas, and of course we very much would like

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<v Speaker 3>to be part of and support that with our customers

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<v Speaker 3>and with the ecosystem. Sixty and an Ai Native sixty

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<v Speaker 3>is really powering enterprises, SMB's government, certainly defense. So it's

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<v Speaker 3>a much broader thing than forty or five D.

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<v Speaker 1>Ever, was every conversation that I have with the cito

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<v Speaker 1>of Ericson is a conversation where I learned new things.

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<v Speaker 1>In an earlier life, I was a telecom reporter, so

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<v Speaker 1>conversations like this with Eric are always fascinating. I wish

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<v Speaker 1>we could continue it longer, but we've run out of

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<v Speaker 1>time on this conversation. Eric, I thank you for your

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<v Speaker 1>time with us today. Once again, with that, it's a

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<v Speaker 1>wrap on this conversation. We'll be back with more until then, goodbye,