Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're gonna pick up where
Speaker 1: we left off with Leslie Groff and the transcripts from
Speaker 1: her interview with Congress mister Biggs. Thank you, Thank you
Speaker 1: very much. I don't want this to be tedious, but
Speaker 1: I just really feel like we need to explore this.
Speaker 1: We'recalling the database that you use to make calls to
Speaker 1: set these appointments and looking at that list in the
Speaker 1: exhibit that you have before you, now, do they seem
Speaker 1: at least similar to you? I mean, do you recognize
Speaker 1: some of the names, numbers, et cetera. Groff, most of
Speaker 1: them are redacted, Biggs, most of the New York ones
Speaker 1: are redacted. Graff are redacted? Right. I recognize Don as
Speaker 1: Don Wicks and pom Beach. Biggs. Pom Beach, he's in Florida, Graff, Yes, Biggs?
Speaker 1: Any others Graff, No, Biggs. Let's explore that for a second.
Speaker 1: Don w R has three numbers and three descriptions by them.
Speaker 1: One is B, one is W, one is H. I
Speaker 1: don't want to assume something, but what do those mean? Groff?
Speaker 1: I would think work home. I don't know what be
Speaker 1: means Bigs business, perhaps Groff business, Biggs, which raises this
Speaker 1: odd question. I mean you had her home number, you
Speaker 1: had her work number and her business number. Did that
Speaker 1: strike you as odd that she had multiple apparently multiple
Speaker 1: numbers would come. You've got to let him finish the question, Biggs. Yeah,
Speaker 1: through multiple places you can go there, Groff. It did
Speaker 1: not strike me as strange. Biggs was down a regular
Speaker 1: of his grof. She had, she had her husband and
Speaker 1: a medical spa. Her husband was a chiropractor, and I
Speaker 1: know mister Epstein went to her spa. Biggs. Let's go
Speaker 1: back to the front page because this is something this
Speaker 1: is unredacted. And I don't know if you said that
Speaker 1: you made some maybe you made some of the appointments
Speaker 1: in California. Did I understand that right? Growth It's possible
Speaker 1: he didn't go to California very often, Biggs. Looking at
Speaker 1: the perhaps you looked at it. Then as you go
Speaker 1: down the list, particularly in the second row, the second column,
Speaker 1: I should say, gypsy has a phone number. Gypsy has
Speaker 1: a phone number. Another gypsy has a phone number. Mister Graff, Oh, yes, Biggs,
Speaker 1: sports connection has a phone number. And then looking at those.
Speaker 1: Did you see those? Then? Just to clarify that, Graf,
Speaker 1: it's possible, Biggs. Would it strike you as odd that
Speaker 1: there's no name? It's just gypsy, mister Graff. Gypsy was
Speaker 1: the mel massuse, Mister Biggs, there's multiple Gypsies on here. Graf,
Speaker 1: it was it was his name, that's what we called them.
Speaker 1: And they're talking about Gypsy Gida, that's who they're talking about,
Speaker 1: the so called guru. Yeah, him, mister Biggs. Well, there's
Speaker 1: another one name to redacted and the descriptor here is
Speaker 1: one of gypsy. What does that mean? GoF Oh? I
Speaker 1: don't know, Biggs. I mean, I don't want to suppose,
Speaker 1: but I mean there's some supposition we could make. You
Speaker 1: didn't find that curious. Perhaps let's go to the UK
Speaker 1: massage list for a second. You have a number, you've
Speaker 1: got some redactions there. What's not redacted is Los Angeles.
Speaker 1: What might that mean? Did you see that? It's the
Speaker 1: second column, I'm sorry, last one of the redacted in
Speaker 1: the massage UK. Graff. Oh, I don't know, Biggs. The
Speaker 1: one above it says Amsterdam Groff. I don't know, Biggs.
Speaker 1: Jean Luke, Bim Graf Jean Luke Biggs. Do you know
Speaker 1: who John Luke Bim is? Graf. I don't know, Biggs.
Speaker 1: I'm going to stop there. Well, I'm not going to
Speaker 1: stop there. I'm going to ask another question, but then
Speaker 1: I'll stop. And that is as you think back now,
Speaker 1: looking back now from this vantage point that you're in now,
Speaker 1: and you had a database on the computer, you have
Speaker 1: this black book that you add access to as well.
Speaker 1: Did any of that strike you as odd that mister
Speaker 1: Epstein was keeping literally by my account, well over fifty
Speaker 1: or seventy five different discrete names in various massage calls
Speaker 1: from all over the world vs. A V. Whatever he
Speaker 1: had in the database. Did that strike you as odd
Speaker 1: at all? Grof? Does it strike me as odd now? Biggs? Yeah,
Speaker 1: looking back, Groth, he had so many people in his
Speaker 1: realm and knew so many people. It doesn't strike me
Speaker 1: as odd that he had a lot of different people
Speaker 1: in his black book, in his directory. It's not surprising
Speaker 1: the within the depth of the people that he knew.
Speaker 1: This is one category, but I believe he had the
Speaker 1: same amount of people in other categories as well, Bigs,
Speaker 1: but in particular with the massage category all over the world.
Speaker 1: That didn't strike you as odd that, for instance, in
Speaker 1: California he maintained the names of twenty six different messuses. Groth.
Speaker 1: I mean he was very wealthy, and he knew a
Speaker 1: lot of people, and when he went to any time
Speaker 1: he met anyone, he'd put them in the directory. It
Speaker 1: could be a passing Biggs. He must have been a
Speaker 1: prolific massage receiver. Thank you, Thank you. Emmer. We've had
Speaker 1: another member of Congress join us. Can he please identify himself?
Speaker 1: Resent Senative Scott Perry, Pennsylvania's tenth district. Emmer, we've also
Speaker 1: had an additional staff member or members joined since we started.
Speaker 1: Can they identify themselves? Mister Emmer? Thank you both. Redacted. Toland,
Speaker 1: recognizing we only have a couple minutes left in our hour,
Speaker 1: go ahead, Emmer. We've had another member joined. Can you
Speaker 1: please identify yourself for the record, James Walkinshaw, eleventh District, Virginia,
Speaker 1: Miss Tolan. Question, Recognizing we only have a little bit
Speaker 1: of time, I'm going to ask you a few quick questions.
Speaker 1: Did you ever witness mister Abstein have sexual contact of
Speaker 1: any kind with any other young woman or girl? Answer
Speaker 1: no question? Did you ever witness Miss Maxwell have sexual
Speaker 1: contact of any kind with any other young woman or girl?
Speaker 1: Answer no question. Did you ever witness mister Abstein abuse
Speaker 1: or assault any young woman or a girl? Answer no question.
Speaker 1: Did any young woman or a girl ever tell you
Speaker 1: that mister Abstein or anyone else abuse, used or assaulted them?
Speaker 1: Answer no question. Did you ever witness mister Ebstein exploit
Speaker 1: any young woman or girls? Answer no question. Did you
Speaker 1: ever witness Miss Maxwell exploit any young women or girls?
Speaker 1: Answer no question. Did you ever witness any other individual
Speaker 1: aside from mister Ebstein abuse or assault any young women
Speaker 1: or girls? Answer no question. I'm going to ask you
Speaker 1: a list of names for the same question. Did you
Speaker 1: ever witness any of the following individuals abuse or assault
Speaker 1: any young women or girls? Frederick Focai answer no. Philip
Speaker 1: Levine answer no, Les Wexner answer no, Leon Black answer no,
Speaker 1: Bill Gates answer no. Jess Staley answer no. Andrew Mountbatten
Speaker 1: Windsor answer no, Harvey Weinstein no, Terry Larson no, Tommy
Speaker 1: Mottola no, George Mitchell no, Henry Jureki no, Eduardo TiO
Speaker 1: Dorani no, Glenn Dubin no, Lapo Elkin no, I don't
Speaker 1: know who that is. Question Tom Pritzker, Answer no, David Mitchell,
Speaker 1: no question. Did you ever hear any allegations about any
Speaker 1: of these men? Answer no, mister Timmins, real quick. From
Speaker 1: twenty thirteen until you left, the majority of that time,
Speaker 1: there were eight twenty to thirty five year old women
Speaker 1: that were in the house with them at all times.
Speaker 1: What do you think they did? What was their job? Like?
Speaker 1: They were just around? Graff, you're referring to Timmins. I've
Speaker 1: got redacted, redacted or redacted, redacted or redacted, redacted and redacted?
Speaker 1: What did they do? So they were around for years, Graff,
Speaker 1: they were Timmins, and you ran their lives, Graff. I
Speaker 1: did not run their lives, Timmins. Did you control when
Speaker 1: they got a haircut? Graf? I did not control when
Speaker 1: they got a haircut? Timmins. We got an email. We'll
Speaker 1: get to that in a minute. But so, I mean,
Speaker 1: they say that their credit cards were controlled by Epstein,
Speaker 1: by you, Kahn Endyken redacted, They had loans taken out
Speaker 1: in their names, their apartments were at the behest of Epstein,
Speaker 1: And they say that you were largely responsible for managing
Speaker 1: that their computers, their phones, their flights, their hotels, all
Speaker 1: their travel, all of their life was run by Epstein.
Speaker 1: What do you think those humans were doing during that time?
Speaker 1: Why did they exist in the world, Grof. I believe
Speaker 1: them to be traveling assistants, and none of them ever
Speaker 1: looked unhappy or under duress. They would travel with them
Speaker 1: and do errands and source things. They were not all
Speaker 1: together at all the time with them. It was a
Speaker 1: demanding job to travel with them. It would appear to
Speaker 1: me to have to leave given twelve hours notice, Hey,
Speaker 1: we're going upon beach tomorrow. To me, it would be
Speaker 1: grueling to ask one person to do that all the time.
Speaker 1: I think they would get burnt out, and so he
Speaker 1: would take one or two with them, but they would
Speaker 1: get them coffee. They would go out and get them
Speaker 1: a burger. It was an assistant chore type of position. Timmins.
Speaker 1: They all just happened to be fairly beautiful and similar age. Groth.
Speaker 1: I think that in order to be a travel assistant,
Speaker 1: it seems consistent that you would have someone who's in
Speaker 1: their twenties or early thirties, not married. It made sense
Speaker 1: as that seems typical to me Timmins. In retrospect, do
Speaker 1: you appreciate that they feel like they were victims of
Speaker 1: sex and human trafficking and we're being controlled by Epstein
Speaker 1: every part of their life? Groff in retrospect in hindsight.
Speaker 1: In hindsight, it's terrible. I can't imagine what they were
Speaker 1: going through. It's amazing to me that they were able
Speaker 1: to put on such a good affront and seem happy
Speaker 1: it was. It's hard. It's hard for me to fathom.
Speaker 1: She's victim blaming. That's what Graff is doing. She doesn't
Speaker 1: feel any remorse, she doesn't think she did anything wrong.
Speaker 1: That's what it comes down to. Tolin. Question, Ms Groff,
Speaker 1: I recognize that we are at time for our hour,
Speaker 1: but I just have three very quick questions to end on.
Speaker 1: Do you have any direct knowledge of mister Epstein ever
Speaker 1: engaging in sexual relations with any of his assistants? Answer
Speaker 1: no question. Did you ever win bodiness mister Epstein receive
Speaker 1: a massage from young women or girls? Answer no question.
Speaker 1: Did you ever receive a massage from anyone associated with
Speaker 1: mister Epstein? Answer I went to a spat one time,
Speaker 1: not associated with them, Miss Tolin, thank you. We will
Speaker 1: end our hour and go off record. Misredacted. Good morning,
Speaker 1: Miss Groff. My name is misredacted, and I'll be doing
Speaker 1: most of the questioning for the minority today. I'm going
Speaker 1: to cover some of the same topics that the majority
Speaker 1: covered with you in the previous round. This is not
Speaker 1: to make you repeat yourself, but rather to make sure
Speaker 1: what we have is a clear record as possible. I
Speaker 1: appreciate your patience while I do that. In addition to
Speaker 1: the extent of any of my questions, where any of
Speaker 1: your answers involve survivor names or other survivor identifying information,
Speaker 1: I ask on behalf of the minority that the majority
Speaker 1: redacts the information prior to releasing the transcript publicly. Question
Speaker 1: Ms Groff, I'd like to start with your work from
Speaker 1: mister Epstein. Started work for him in two thousand and one.
Speaker 1: Correct answer, yes question, and you were thirty five years
Speaker 1: old at that point. Answer yes question. Your title was
Speaker 1: executive secretary. Correct answer, yes question, and you were paid
Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars correct answer, yes question. You talk a
Speaker 1: little bit about your role and responsibilities and also about
Speaker 1: the people that you work with. Can you say more
Speaker 1: about the other assistants that mister Epstein had in your
Speaker 1: relationship to them? Answer? Sure. In the office, there was
Speaker 1: an assistant to miss Maxwell, There was an assistant to
Speaker 1: the two attorneys. There was when I first started a
Speaker 1: traveling assistant. There was another assistant there. She was only
Speaker 1: there briefly. And we had a receptionist I replaced redacted.
Speaker 1: She was mister Epstein's assistant, and then I replaced her,
Speaker 1: so then redacted became the receptionist. Question did you at
Speaker 1: any point manage any of those assistants? Answer no question?
Speaker 1: So you never had your own team of assistants? Answer
Speaker 1: no question. How did you fit in within the larger operation?
Speaker 1: So you mentioned earlier Darren Endyke. Also there was Richard Kahn.
Speaker 1: Would they have ever asked you to do anything? Would
Speaker 1: Glenn Maxwell ever ask you to do anything? Or did
Speaker 1: you only respond to mister Epstein? Answer it was mister
Speaker 1: Epstein purely. All right, folks, we're going to wrap up
Speaker 1: right here and in the next episode dealing with the topic,
Speaker 1: We're going to pick up where we left off. All
Speaker 1: the information that goes with this episode can be found
Speaker 1: in the description box. What's up everyone, and welcome to
Speaker 1: another episode. Of the Epstein chronicles. In this episode, we're
Speaker 1: going to pick up where we left off with the
Speaker 1: Leslie Groff transcripts from her interview with Congress. Question, you
Speaker 1: talked a little bit about your role and responsibilities and
Speaker 1: also about the people that you work with. Can you
Speaker 1: say some more about the other assistants that mister Epstein
Speaker 1: had and your relationship to them? Answer? Sure. In the office,
Speaker 1: there was an assistant to miss Maxwell. There was an
Speaker 1: assistant to the two attorneys. There was when I first
Speaker 1: started a traveling assistant. There was another assistant there. She
Speaker 1: was only there briefly, and we had a receptionist I
Speaker 1: replaced redacted. She was mister Epstein's assistant, and then I
Speaker 1: replaced her, so then I became the receptionist. Question did
Speaker 1: you at any point manage any of those assistants? Answer
Speaker 1: no question? So you never had your own team of assistants?
Speaker 1: Answer no question? And how did you fit in with
Speaker 1: a larger operation? So you mentioned earlier Darren Endyke. Also
Speaker 1: there was Richard Kahn. Would they have ever asked you
Speaker 1: to do anything? Would Maxwell have ever asked you to
Speaker 1: do anything? Or did you only respond to mister Epstein?
Speaker 1: Answer it was mister Epstein, purely question, what might a
Speaker 1: typical day look like? Answer? Sure, I would get in,
Speaker 1: try to get in by at least age fifty five,
Speaker 1: because he was definitely calling me at nine a m. Sharp.
Speaker 1: He would call me and give me twenty to ten
Speaker 1: to twenty pages of notes that he had to be
Speaker 1: thinking about all night, all throughout the night. In the
Speaker 1: morning and he'd call me with all of his directives
Speaker 1: of the people that he wanted to see that day.
Speaker 1: The call list was always huge. He would direct me
Speaker 1: to coordinate with his house staff. If he was going
Speaker 1: to be, say leaving that day or the next day
Speaker 1: for Palm Beach, he would want to make sure that
Speaker 1: the Palm Beach staff was going to be ready to
Speaker 1: go and ready for his visit. I would have to
Speaker 1: coordinate with the pilots, and he'd give me it's possible.
Speaker 1: He gave me directives for people in the office as well,
Speaker 1: to communicate. He would It was just it was crazy.
Speaker 1: It was very, very busy because at the same time
Speaker 1: that he was giving me all his directives, people were
Speaker 1: also calling in for him as well. I had the
Speaker 1: two phones on my desk and it was just NonStop.
Speaker 1: So I would take messages from people who are calling
Speaker 1: in for him, as well as giving me directives. Question
Speaker 1: when you say that he would have directives for people
Speaker 1: in the office to communicate, what do you mean? Answer
Speaker 1: it would be like, tell Darren to be sure and
Speaker 1: call so and so today, Like I was just the
Speaker 1: go between them, tell Darren so that he didn't have
Speaker 1: to call Darren himself, that type of thing. Question got it.
Speaker 1: You talked a little bit about this earlier. But how
Speaker 1: would mister Epstein typically communicate with you? Answer? It was
Speaker 1: first all telephone, all telephone. I don't even think he
Speaker 1: had a cell phone. He definitely didn't have email, so
Speaker 1: there was a lot. That's why he called me so
Speaker 1: often to find out his messages and find out about
Speaker 1: his schedule and give me more things to do. It
Speaker 1: was very typical for him to book things and then
Speaker 1: reschedule and then book again. It was chaotic. Question At
Speaker 1: what point did he start emailing you, because he clearly
Speaker 1: did email you eventually answer, yeah, he clearly did. I
Speaker 1: would say it was more around twenty eleven ten eleven
Speaker 1: about then question, Okay, so before twenty eleven twenty twelve,
Speaker 1: he mostly called you. Correct answer correct, yes. Question did
Speaker 1: he also text you answer? No, we were not texters.
Speaker 1: Question okay, mister redacted. And just to go back quickly,
Speaker 1: you listed out who worked in the office, and you
Speaker 1: mentioned Maxwell's assistant. You mentioned redacted. Can you give us
Speaker 1: the names of those individuals please? Who was Maxwell's assistant Groff?
Speaker 1: When I first started, it was redacted, and then it
Speaker 1: was redacted, mister adacted. Was there anyone else in that
Speaker 1: office that you recall, miss Graf? Yeah, there were two attorneys,
Speaker 1: Darren Endyke and Jeff Schantz. There was an accountant, Eric Ganny,
Speaker 1: and he was there when I first started, and then
Speaker 1: it changed to Richard Kahn. There was redacted who I
Speaker 1: thought was the assistant to the accountant, the bookkeeper. Then
Speaker 1: there was Henry Henry Beller, who I thought was the trader,
Speaker 1: did his trades that sort of thing. And then after
Speaker 1: a while it was a madh Hanna who was the controller.
Speaker 1: Mister adacted, Thank you, misredacted. Question what kind of hours
Speaker 1: did you work? Answer? At first it was nine to five.
Speaker 1: It was typical, and then after I had my son,
Speaker 1: it changed. I was given a very flexible schedule. I
Speaker 1: would work usually two or three days a week in
Speaker 1: the office only when he was in town, and I
Speaker 1: job shared with redacted. She would sit in for me
Speaker 1: when I was not there, and I got to work
Speaker 1: from home when he was not around. Question and you
Speaker 1: had your son in two thousand and four two thousand
Speaker 1: and five. Answer two thousand and four December sixteenth, two
Speaker 1: thousand and four, so right on the cusp of two
Speaker 1: thousand and five. Question so from two thousand and one
Speaker 1: to two thousand and four, you're working nine to five
Speaker 1: in the office. Answer I think I got pregnant and
Speaker 1: was really really pregnant. I got to work from home
Speaker 1: some as well. Question and once you had that flexible schedule,
Speaker 1: did you keep it or was there a point where
Speaker 1: you were in the office five days a week? Answer?
Speaker 1: I got to keep the flexible schedule, and I got
Speaker 1: to leave early as well. There was a train I
Speaker 1: was able to leave at four instead of five on
Speaker 1: the days that I went in. Question did mister Epstein
Speaker 1: call or make requests of you outside of work hours? Answer?
Speaker 1: That happened later with the smartphones. Yeah, he had no filter.
Speaker 1: It became more like twenty four to seven holidays. Uh huh.
Speaker 1: Question when did that start? Answer? I would say, I'm
Speaker 1: just trying to remember twenty eleven, twenty twelve, thirteen. I'm
Speaker 1: just trying to put it in perspective of where I
Speaker 1: was living. Yeah, around that time period. It progressed over time.
Speaker 1: Question sure, so fair to say starting in twenty eleven,
Speaker 1: twenty twelve, maybe twenty thirteen, you were working pretty long
Speaker 1: hours because mister Epstein might reach out to you at
Speaker 1: any point. Answer, yeah, it was not just typical hours. Question.
Speaker 1: I'd like to ask you a few questions about the
Speaker 1: offices that you worked in. You said earlier that when
Speaker 1: you started working for mister Epstein you worked at four
Speaker 1: fifty seven Madison Avenue. Is that correct? Answer? Correct question?
Speaker 1: And that was from two thousand and one to two
Speaker 1: thousand and nine. Correct answer, correct question. Can you tell
Speaker 1: us more about how that office was set up? Answer? Sure.
Speaker 1: So when you came into the courtyard of the Helmsley
Speaker 1: Palace on the left hand side what they called the
Speaker 1: villa house. So you entered a door and there was
Speaker 1: a security guard there, and then a small elevator that
Speaker 1: took you up to go to I think it was
Speaker 1: the fourth floor, and that elevator dumped you right into
Speaker 1: the reception area of the office space. Then there was
Speaker 1: a receptionist desk there, there were two bathrooms. To the left,
Speaker 1: there was a large office that had the accountants and
Speaker 1: the trader and the controller. To the right was Darren
Speaker 1: in Dyke's office and kitchen. And then you headed down
Speaker 1: the corridor and there was a door on the right
Speaker 1: hand side that went into the office where miss Maxwell sat,
Speaker 1: Darren and Jeff's assistant redacted sat in there, and there
Speaker 1: were several desks. Question what about mister Epstein? Where was he? Answer? Yes,
Speaker 1: So down that same corridor there was a door. Oh,
Speaker 1: there was first of all Jeff Shant's office, and then
Speaker 1: there was mister Epstein's office. Question and where were you
Speaker 1: in a relationship or excuse me, where were you in
Speaker 1: relation to mister Epstein? Answer right, So my office was
Speaker 1: next to his. You had to go down the long
Speaker 1: corridor and the door to my office was right of
Speaker 1: the whole office. And then my desk was in the middle.
Speaker 1: And he had a very very large office, and he
Speaker 1: had a door you could enter his office from the corridor,
Speaker 1: or there was a door next to the desk that
Speaker 1: you could enter into his office as well. Question, So
Speaker 1: you would have seen people coming in and out of
Speaker 1: his office. Answer. Actually, he kept his door closed to
Speaker 1: my office most of the time. If people came, they
Speaker 1: entered in that first door. To go into the office,
Speaker 1: he had to set up with a sofa and a
Speaker 1: fireplace at the front of the office, and then at
Speaker 1: the back of the office was his desk. Question when
Speaker 1: you left the offices at four fifty seven Madison, did
Speaker 1: you go next to three oh one East sixty six
Speaker 1: or was that Lexington office? Answer? It was three oh
Speaker 1: one East sixty six. Question And how long were you there? Answer?
Speaker 1: I believe that was two three years? Okay. Question so
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine to twenty eleven or twelve. Answer,
Speaker 1: I think that's right, Yeah, okay. And then after that
Speaker 1: you went to the Lexington office answer correct? Question And
Speaker 1: how long were you there? Answer? That was from about
Speaker 1: twenty eleven to twenty thirteen or so, And that office
Speaker 1: remained The people who were in that office stayed there.
Speaker 1: I started working from his home around twenty thirteen. Question
Speaker 1: And mister Epstein's office in his home was on the
Speaker 1: second floor. Correct answer. He had an office on the
Speaker 1: second floor. Uh huh. Question what flora was the massage room.
Speaker 1: On answer, I don't know. I didn't go upstairs. Question.
Speaker 1: You don't even know what flora was on answer It
Speaker 1: could have been, well, I don't know for sure if
Speaker 1: it was on the third or the fourth or the fifth. Question.
Speaker 1: And where was your office? Answer on the first floor
Speaker 1: question so you would have seen people come in and
Speaker 1: out of his residence? Answer? Actually no, the way that
Speaker 1: the office was situated, you came in the front door
Speaker 1: and there was a foire where you walked up about
Speaker 1: eight to ten steps, and then at the platform at
Speaker 1: the top there was a door on the left my office.
Speaker 1: It was an oval room, and my desk was set
Speaker 1: in the back of the office, which was actually the
Speaker 1: desk out the window was seventy first Street, So you
Speaker 1: had to come up the steps, make a left into
Speaker 1: my office, and then come back towards the front of
Speaker 1: the house, if you will. And my desk was there
Speaker 1: so people could come and go that I would not
Speaker 1: see question because your back was to the window. Groff,
Speaker 1: that's correct. Question. And was there a doorman of any sort? Groff,
Speaker 1: I would say a butler and the maid. If you
Speaker 1: call them dorman, I mean, not a doorman like you
Speaker 1: see in a New York City apartment. Question, sure, I
Speaker 1: guess A better question is if a visitor arrived there,
Speaker 1: who would let them in? Miss Groff? It would be
Speaker 1: the maid Lynn, the butler Jojo, or maybe Rich was
Speaker 1: the engineer's security guy. Mister Garcia. Would it be one
Speaker 1: of those three that would have seen folks that were
Speaker 1: coming in and out more than anyone else of the
Speaker 1: three names you gave us, or is there anyone else
Speaker 1: that you would know that has more information about who
Speaker 1: was let in and out of the residence? Groff, I
Speaker 1: would say that those are the top, the top three, Garcia,
Speaker 1: and we have the three names redacted? Yes, Garcia, thank you? Redacted. Question.
Speaker 1: You said earlier that you have not been to his
Speaker 1: Pond Beach residence. Is that correct answer? That's correct question?
Speaker 1: And you have not been to Zorro Ranch? Answer correct question.
Speaker 1: Did you ever go to his residence in Ohio? Answer
Speaker 1: no question? And you said you took day trips to
Speaker 1: Little Saint James? Is that correct answer? Correct question? And
Speaker 1: you said that you took a vacation there answer no question,
Speaker 1: no answer, no question, okay, And you and your husband
Speaker 1: visited his apartment in Paris? Is that correct. Answer correct
Speaker 1: the guest apartment. Question Okay, did you separately ever travel
Speaker 1: with mister Epstein? Answer no, question he said, you've never
Speaker 1: been on any of his planes? Is that correct? Answer correct?
Speaker 1: I never traveled on his airplane? Question did you ever
Speaker 1: travel on his helicopter? Answer? I did? Question how many times?
Speaker 1: Answer once? Question what four? Answer to go to Saint
Speaker 1: Thomas to his island? Question approximately? How much do you
Speaker 1: think that you earned over the course of your employment
Speaker 1: with mister Epstein? Answer I've got to do some math.
Speaker 1: Mister Whitcomb, you said there would be no math. Couldn't resist.
Speaker 1: Mister Bockner, Maybe you want to take her year by year.
Speaker 1: She can just give you maybe the salary graff Can
Speaker 1: I give amounts? Question? Sure? You said it started at
Speaker 1: fifty thousand? Answer riot, and I believe that was four
Speaker 1: up until two thousand and five. I did get a
Speaker 1: bonus of ten thousand dollars the first year. I don't
Speaker 1: recall how much my bonus was the next year. I
Speaker 1: know after I had my child, I went up to
Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty thousand, and that was four until
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, and then it dropped to one
Speaker 1: thousand and eight dollars and then it went back up
Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen to I don't know, one hundred and
Speaker 1: thirty thousand. I'm guessing I think maybe it went to
Speaker 1: as high as one hundred and fifty and then it
Speaker 1: went back down again. Question when did it go down?
Speaker 1: Answer in twenty seventeen, I think it went down nominally.
Speaker 1: Question as you know. In twenty sixteen, mister Epstein was
Speaker 1: charged with solicitation of prostitution and an excuse me. In
Speaker 1: two thousand and six, mister Ebstein was charged with solicitation
Speaker 1: of prostitution. In two thousand and eight, he pleaded to
Speaker 1: solicitation a prostitution and solicitation of a minor for prostitution,
Speaker 1: after which he served thirteen months in the Palm Beach Zocade.
Speaker 1: We're going to get into that in more depth later,
Speaker 1: but I'd like to ask you some questions about what
Speaker 1: you were aware of in the time that you work
Speaker 1: for mister Epstein, and I'd like to focus on the
Speaker 1: time that you spent at ninety seventy First Street. I
Speaker 1: understand that you didn't see people come in and doubt,
Speaker 1: but when you were there the years that you spent there,
Speaker 1: did you see minor girls and young women at the
Speaker 1: proper answer no minors, no question. Young women answer if
Speaker 1: you're talking about the assistance all of age question not
Speaker 1: the staff answer, oh, no, no question. So, from twenty
Speaker 1: thirteen to twenty nineteen, the time that you spent at
Speaker 1: the residence, you never once saw minor girls or young women.
Speaker 1: Answer that's correct. Question you never observed mister Epstein interacting
Speaker 1: with minor girls or young women. Answer no, mister Whitcomb
Speaker 1: at the residence. Mis redacted at the residence. All right, folks,
Speaker 1: we're gonna wrap up right here, and in the next episode,
Speaker 1: we're gonna pick up where we left off. All the
Speaker 1: information that goes with this episode can be found in
Speaker 1: the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome to another
Speaker 1: episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going
Speaker 1: to pick up where we left off with a Leslie
Speaker 1: Groff interview with Congress. Question misredacted. When did you first
Speaker 1: learn that mister Epstein was under investigation by the Palm
Speaker 1: Beach Police Answer I believe it was in two thousand
Speaker 1: and seven. Question what was your understanding at the time
Speaker 1: of why he was being investigated? Answer? He told me
Speaker 1: that he was being blackmailed. Question when did you first
Speaker 1: learn that he had been arrested and charged with solicitation
Speaker 1: of prostitution? Answer? I think sometime around two thousand and seven.
Speaker 1: Question what was your understanding at the time of exactly
Speaker 1: what he was accused of doing of the underlying conduct? Answer?
Speaker 1: Could you say that again? I'm sorry? Question what was
Speaker 1: your understanding at the time of exactly what he was
Speaker 1: accused of doing? Answer? I believed him. I believe that
Speaker 1: he was being black meled and that it was false,
Speaker 1: and that he totally had me believe that he was.
Speaker 1: It was not what they were saying. Question when did
Speaker 1: you first learn that the conduct that issue involved the
Speaker 1: sexual abuse of minor girls, specifically high school students. Answer
Speaker 1: when did? I Could you say that again? Answer when
Speaker 1: did you first learn that the conduct issue involved the
Speaker 1: sexual abuse of minor girls, specifically high school students. Mister Buckner,
Speaker 1: could you give a time frame as to when you
Speaker 1: want you mean ever learned redacted? When did she learn that?
Speaker 1: Yes in relation to him being arrested and charged mister Bockner,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry in two thousand and seven. Answer yeah, correct,
Speaker 1: Miss Groth. In two thousand and seven. I believe he
Speaker 1: told me that he was being charged with solicitation of
Speaker 1: a minor, but that he was being blackmailed. He didn't
Speaker 1: know that this person was a miner, and that was it,
Speaker 1: and I believed him he lied to me. Question, did
Speaker 1: learning that the conduct that issue, that what he was
Speaker 1: accused of involved minors, did that concern you at all?
Speaker 1: Mister Whitcomb. Just objection to the form of the question,
Speaker 1: mister adacted. Counsel, this is a transcribed interview in Congress.
Speaker 1: There are no rules of evidence here, so please let
Speaker 1: counsel ask the question, mister Whitcomb. Okay, I'll take that
Speaker 1: under advisement, sir, mister adacted. Thank you, mister Bockner. Just
Speaker 1: for clarity, say minor not miners. Groff. I was going
Speaker 1: to say, I didn't even think it was plural. I
Speaker 1: was told it was a minor, so I did not.
Speaker 1: I was not. I was unaware that you're making it plural.
Speaker 1: I was told it was one miner and it was
Speaker 1: a mistake, and that he was being blackmailed redacted. So
Speaker 1: it didn't concern you to learn that the conduct that
Speaker 1: issue involved gets cut off by Groff, Well, then gets
Speaker 1: cut off by redacted under your belief a minor it
Speaker 1: didn't concern you, Miss Groff, Well, I didn't. I didn't
Speaker 1: like it. But he he was remorseful and said he
Speaker 1: didn't know that it was a mistake and he was
Speaker 1: being black mailed, and I believed him. Redacted. Question if
Speaker 1: I can ask, if he's being blackmailed, what's he remorseful for? Answer, well,
Speaker 1: he didn't know that. It was a minor. Question he
Speaker 1: didn't know that was a minor answer the person that
Speaker 1: was accusing him, that was blackmailing him. Question, So, I guess,
Speaker 1: just to back up a little bit, you're describing how
Speaker 1: mister Epstein's being blackmailed. Can you describe I guess what
Speaker 1: the blackmail is that he told you? Like, what's the
Speaker 1: underlying conduct and how is he being blackmailed? Answer? Right,
Speaker 1: I believed. I just thought that whoever this was must
Speaker 1: have done it on purpose, and I don't know, showing
Speaker 1: him a fake ID, I don't know. We didn't get
Speaker 1: into specifics. He didn't tell me exactly how it was happening,
Speaker 1: but I thought that it seemed like something that could
Speaker 1: be happening to him because he was a very wealthy man.
Speaker 1: Question and then you mentioned it was a mistake. That
Speaker 1: was a mistake. Answer that he didn't know that this
Speaker 1: person was a miner. Question and what did he do
Speaker 1: with this miner that would cause this? Answer? Oh, I
Speaker 1: don't know. Question So he was just interacting with a miner,
Speaker 1: and now the miner is blackmailing him. I just want
Speaker 1: to make sure that I understand what you're conveying here.
Speaker 1: Answer right, Yes, I don't think that he knew it
Speaker 1: was a setup. He believed it was a setup, and
Speaker 1: that's the way he explained it to me. Question did
Speaker 1: learning that he was involved with a miner lead you
Speaker 1: to reevaluate anything that you had seen or heard or
Speaker 1: learned about up until that point as one of his employees?
Speaker 1: Answer evaluate question did you see anything that you had
Speaker 1: been asked to do? Maybe in a different light knowing
Speaker 1: that mister Epstein had been involved with a miner. Answer
Speaker 1: I had never seen anything improper and I did not
Speaker 1: think that way. I'm a very positive person. I believe
Speaker 1: the best in people. And no question And did you
Speaker 1: have any reservations about continuing to work for mister Epstein?
Speaker 1: Answer not at that time. Question. In the following years,
Speaker 1: you spend a significant amount of time scheduling young women
Speaker 1: to visit and travel with mister Epstein. Given that he
Speaker 1: had pleaded guilty to conduct involving miners, were you concerned
Speaker 1: that he was sexually abusing these young women? Answer No,
Speaker 1: I never saw anything. She gets cut off by the questioner.
Speaker 1: That didn't cross your mind at any point? Answer, I
Speaker 1: never saw anything improper. Everyone who was around, as said,
Speaker 1: seem very happy. No one ever seemed to be in duress.
Speaker 1: And I did not question. And what was your interpretation
Speaker 1: of why he pleaded guilty. If he's explaining to you
Speaker 1: that the underlying allegations were false, why did he plead guilty? Grof?
Speaker 1: Why did he plead guilty? Backner, What did he tell you?
Speaker 1: If he did? Would come? If you know Groff, he
Speaker 1: just told me that he was being blackmailed, and that's it, redacted.
Speaker 1: And I understand that he may have told you that.
Speaker 1: I guess I'm asking for your opinion. So at some
Speaker 1: point he tells you that he's being blackmailed. Eventually down
Speaker 1: the line he pleads guilty to these charges which you
Speaker 1: mentioned that you became aware of. Answer right question in
Speaker 1: your opinion or I guessed in your mind at the time.
Speaker 1: How did you square those two things, Miss Groff. I
Speaker 1: looked around the office and I felt people smarter than
Speaker 1: me were still there, and I stayed there all his
Speaker 1: contacts and business people. No one left, and I kind
Speaker 1: of looked at that and thought, Wow, if everybody else
Speaker 1: is staying, and Darras said, I feel like smarter than me,
Speaker 1: everybody was under the same impression that it was he
Speaker 1: was being blackmailed and it was all a scheme misredacted
Speaker 1: for the following individuals. Were you ever aware of mister
Speaker 1: Epstein or miss Maxwell introducing them to any minor girls
Speaker 1: or young women for the purpose of engaging in sexual activity?
Speaker 1: Kimball Musk answer no question. Martin Noak answer no, Richard
Speaker 1: Branson answer no. David Copperfield answer no, David Blaine answer no,
Speaker 1: Larry Summers answer no. Sultan Achmed Bensuliam answer no, Frederick
Speaker 1: Lecai answer no. Pallo Zampoli answer, I don't know who
Speaker 1: that is question. Steve Peter Mandelsson answer no question. Stephen
Speaker 1: Hansen answer no question. During that time that you work
Speaker 1: for mister Epstein, what was your understanding of his relationship
Speaker 1: with Andrew mount Batton Windsor former Prince Andrew Answer on sure,
Speaker 1: I didn't know what the relationship was. I know they
Speaker 1: spoke on the phone and visited with each other, but
Speaker 1: I don't know what their relationship truly was. Question is
Speaker 1: it fair to say they were friends? Answer? It's fair
Speaker 1: to say that. Question. Were you ever aware of mister
Speaker 1: Epstein or miss Maxwell soliciting minor girls or young women
Speaker 1: to meet mister mount Baton Windsor? Answer no question. And
Speaker 1: were you ever aware of mister mount Baton Windsor engaging
Speaker 1: in sexual activity with any minor girls or young women
Speaker 1: introduced to him by mister Epstein or Miss Maxwell? Answer
Speaker 1: no question. What was your understanding of mister Epstein's relationship
Speaker 1: with Jean lu Brunel Answer Jean lu Brunell was an
Speaker 1: owner of a modeling agency, and I believe that mister
Speaker 1: Epstein was invested in that modeling agency with him. Question
Speaker 1: by mis redacted. Were you ever aware of mister Brunell
Speaker 1: engaging in sexual activity with minor girls or young women
Speaker 1: who were introduced to him by mister Epstein or Miss Maxwell?
Speaker 1: Answer no question. Were you ever aware of mister Epstein
Speaker 1: engaging in sexual activity with minor girls or young women
Speaker 1: who were introduced to him by mister Brunel. Answer no.
Speaker 1: Question did you arrange travel or visas for any minor
Speaker 1: girls or young women working for mister Brunell's modeling agency?
Speaker 1: Answer not that I'm aware of. I did not organize visas.
Speaker 1: Question did you ever arrange housing for any minor girls
Speaker 1: or young women working for mister Brunell's modeling agency? Answer?
Speaker 1: If I was directed to set aside an apartment of
Speaker 1: mister Epstein's for one of mister Brunell's models, It's possible,
Speaker 1: but I did not. It was my job to say
Speaker 1: who was going to stay in an apartment? Question how
Speaker 1: did you learn about mister Epstein's relationship with mister Brunell? Answer?
Speaker 1: I think mister Brunell came to the office where I
Speaker 1: connected him on the phone just it was. He was
Speaker 1: there before me. He was just a friend I started
Speaker 1: in two thousand and one. I think they knew each
Speaker 1: other before that. Question and would you qualify mister Epstein's
Speaker 1: relationship with mister Brunel as a friendship mister Groff or
Speaker 1: ms Groff, I think there were friends and business partners redacted.
Speaker 1: Miss Groff, you said a number of times that you
Speaker 1: met where you never met any minor girl who was
Speaker 1: giving mister Epstein a massage? Is that correct? Answer? Correct question?
Speaker 1: And you said you did not know that any of
Speaker 1: those girls were in fact minors. Answer correct question. I
Speaker 1: would like to introduce as a minority exhibit A a
Speaker 1: summary of the FBI's No Ever fourth twenty twenty interview
Speaker 1: with the survivor of mister Epstein's abuse. The Bates number
Speaker 1: is EFTA zero zero zero nine zero three three nine.
Speaker 1: We've marked a relevant paragraph for you redacted. According to
Speaker 1: the summary, the survivor told the FBI that she first
Speaker 1: started giving mister Epstein massages when she was fifteen years old.
Speaker 1: She explained that the massages were pretenses for sexual abuse
Speaker 1: and said that quote, it was pretty obvious Leslie knew
Speaker 1: what was going on. She also said that you knew
Speaker 1: she was a minor because she explicitly told you that
Speaker 1: she was not eighteen years old. And she also told
Speaker 1: you that she needed money for an abortion. So I'll
Speaker 1: ask you again, miss Groff, did you ever book massages
Speaker 1: from mister Epstein by a girl you knew was a minor? Answer?
Speaker 1: No question. So your testimony here today is that the
Speaker 1: survivor told the FBI what they told them was not true. Answer.
Speaker 1: I feel terrible for this survivor. I'm not saying what
Speaker 1: she's thinking. That she told someone, but she did not
Speaker 1: tell me. I think she is mistaken. I know she
Speaker 1: is mistaken. Question the summary set redacted said to Leslie
Speaker 1: that she cannot sign a lease because she was not
Speaker 1: eighteen years old. Also, redacted told Leslie that she cannot
Speaker 1: get an apartment because she was not eighteen. She explained
Speaker 1: to the FBI that she had to live in hotels
Speaker 1: as a result, and that you helped her pay for them.
Speaker 1: Your testimony today is that that is not true. Answer.
Speaker 1: My testimony today is to say that that is not true. Question,
Speaker 1: mister adacted, were you ever aware of mister Epstein paying
Speaker 1: for a minor girl or young woman to have an abortion?
Speaker 1: Miss Groff, no question, Miss Groff, I have a few
Speaker 1: questions about redacted. We're gonna have some members ask some questions. Groff. Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here, and
Speaker 1: in the next episode, we're gonna pick up where we
Speaker 1: left off. All the information that goes with this episode
Speaker 1: can be found in the description box. What's up everyone,
Speaker 1: and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In
Speaker 1: this episode, we're gonna get right back to Leslie Groff
Speaker 1: and our conversation with Congress, and now let's throw Conna
Speaker 1: asking the questions. Thank you, Miss Groff. I want to
Speaker 1: ask you about several men in mister Epstein's orbit, and
Speaker 1: I want you to answer for these men. Did you
Speaker 1: ever see here a schedule, arrange, or learn of any
Speaker 1: sexual activity with a minor girl or a young woman
Speaker 1: who is introduced to these men by mister Epstein or
Speaker 1: Miss Maxwell. First, Les Wexner, No Conna. Never heard scheduled arranged,
Speaker 1: learned of any sexual activity of any young woman by
Speaker 1: mister Wexner, Miss Groff, that's correct, No, mister Conna, Alan
Speaker 1: Dershowitz Graff, no Glenn Dubin, No Conna. Beyond these names,
Speaker 1: are there any other men in mister Epstein's network who
Speaker 1: you believe should be investigated for is sexually abusing, exploiting,
Speaker 1: or seeking access to women or girls through the Epstein
Speaker 1: or Miss Maxwell Graff? No Conna. Do you believe the
Speaker 1: first lady is right that mister Epstein did not act
Speaker 1: alone in the abuse of young women, Miss Groff, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: could you say that? First Lady, Conna? The first lady
Speaker 1: Malania Trump has said that mister Epstein did not act alone.
Speaker 1: There were other men who were involved in the abuse
Speaker 1: of young women. Do you agree with her? Groff? I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: Milania Trump. Could you say that again? I'm sorry, Conna sure,
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to trick you. She just said that
Speaker 1: Epstein did not act alone in the abuse of young women.
Speaker 1: Do you agree with that? Groff? I don't know. No,
Speaker 1: I don't know, Conna, So you disagree with her? I mean,
Speaker 1: to your knowledge, she's saying that he didn't act alone,
Speaker 1: to your knowledge gets cut off by Groff. To my knowledge,
Speaker 1: Conna cuts her off. He acted alone. There's no one
Speaker 1: else Groff. Yeah, Conna. I mean it's your testimony under
Speaker 1: oath that you were aware of no one other than
Speaker 1: Maxwell or Epstein who in any way was involved in trafficking, abuse, assault,
Speaker 1: exploitation of young girls. Miss Groff, that is correct, Conna, Okay,
Speaker 1: Miss then sorry, thank you. I'd like to start by
Speaker 1: asking some questions about Les Wexner. In particular, how would
Speaker 1: you describe mister Epstein's relationship with mister Wexner during your
Speaker 1: employment with mister Epstein, Graff, during my employment, Yes, as
Speaker 1: business business professional and sorry, and did their relationship change
Speaker 1: over time, Groff? I knew that they needed mister Wexner
Speaker 1: was no longer going to be a client of mister
Speaker 1: Epstein's around two thousand and eight. And sorry, so you
Speaker 1: said two thousand and eight. I think either two thousand
Speaker 1: and seven or two thousand and eight. We know that
Speaker 1: mister Waxner ended his relationship with mister Epstein. Mister Wexner
Speaker 1: later said that the reason he did this is because
Speaker 1: he discovered that mister Epstein had stolen several hundred million
Speaker 1: dollars from him prior to two thousand and seven. Were
Speaker 1: you aware of mister Epstein's efforts to take money from
Speaker 1: mister Waxner without his knowledge? Graff? No and sorry? And
Speaker 1: when did you first learn of any allegations that mister
Speaker 1: Epstein was stealing money from mister Waxner Groff Not until
Speaker 1: after twenty nineteen and sorry, Okay, so not at all
Speaker 1: during the two thousand and eight two thousand and seven
Speaker 1: time period, Graff, No and sorry, did you ever talk
Speaker 1: to mister Epstein about mister Wexner's claims that mister Epstein
Speaker 1: stole money from him. Graff, No, and sorry, I just
Speaker 1: want to go back thank you for that. I just
Speaker 1: want to go back to some of the questions about
Speaker 1: what redacted was asking about your knowledge, of course to
Speaker 1: one thousand and six. Mister Epstein was arrested two thousand
Speaker 1: and eight, he pleaded guilty. He told you it was blackmail.
Speaker 1: You continue to work for him until twenty nineteen. In hindsight,
Speaker 1: I understand your testimony. But in hindsight, is there anything
Speaker 1: that you saw or heard that would give you pause
Speaker 1: or that should have given you pause? Graff. In hindsight,
Speaker 1: we all have access to his personal emails. It's awful.
Speaker 1: It's horrendous. I feel terrible. I wish that someone had
Speaker 1: come to me and said something. I would have helped them.
Speaker 1: I would have gone to the authorities. As said, everyone
Speaker 1: seemed happy to be in his orbit. I actually thought
Speaker 1: of them as fortunate. I was happy for them that
Speaker 1: it seemed to me like their lives were going to
Speaker 1: be better than possibly the direction they were heading. Miss An. Sorry,
Speaker 1: and you're specifically speaking to the staff or the women,
Speaker 1: the girls, Graff, any of the victims, and especially the
Speaker 1: traveling assistant who I knew. It breaks my heart. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and sorry, I think, just you know, speaking really as
Speaker 1: a human being, I think it's hard to believe that
Speaker 1: after no that he was arrested and pleaded guilty to
Speaker 1: solicitation of a minor, being so close in his orbit
Speaker 1: for ten plus years, that there was nothing that you
Speaker 1: would have seen being so intimately involved that should have
Speaker 1: given you pause. And I think for us, as we
Speaker 1: do our investigation and trying to get closer to the truth,
Speaker 1: it would be as helpful as possible to know if
Speaker 1: there's somebody else that we should interview, or anyone else
Speaker 1: that you think we should talk to that would have
Speaker 1: seen or could guide us further to further answers. Graf,
Speaker 1: I want to be helpful. I did not see anything inappropriate.
Speaker 1: He was a master manipulator and kept me on the
Speaker 1: outside and it was I can see, completely on purpose.
Speaker 1: He lied to me, and I think he lied to everyone,
Speaker 1: and I think he was an absolute professional at keeping
Speaker 1: people separated. And sorry, thank you, mister Submarannium. We were
Speaker 1: just talking about scheduling earlier. Did you schedule any meetings
Speaker 1: with Jeffrey Epstein and other heads of state or high
Speaker 1: profile politicians like Bill Clinton, Sommeranium, Yeah, are there any
Speaker 1: names that come to mind of high profile politicians that
Speaker 1: you scheduled meetings with Jeffrey Epstein, Groff, Yes, I mean
Speaker 1: I know he met with Alan Dershowitz, he met Larry Summers.
Speaker 1: Would coom he's asking about politicians, Graff? Right, But would
Speaker 1: coom he's asking about politicians, Groff. Let's see, I remember
Speaker 1: him speaking with Senator Kerry. I remember him speaking with
Speaker 1: General Wesley Clark. I remember him speaking with in politics,
Speaker 1: George Mitchell, governor of New Mexico, sorry, governor of New Mexico.
Speaker 1: Let's see, well, early on he spoke with Trump, but
Speaker 1: that was before he became president. Mister Summaranian, what do
Speaker 1: you mean he spoke with Trump? Did you set up
Speaker 1: schedule meetings with him and Trump? Groff? I would connect
Speaker 1: phone calls, that was it, Summaranium. Was that pretty frequent? Groff? No,
Speaker 1: And you know what I get it, But not one
Speaker 1: question about George Mitchell or Senator Kerry. All of it matters,
Speaker 1: not just your jihad against the president and the administration. Now,
Speaker 1: of course that's part of it, but that can't be
Speaker 1: the sole focus. Ms Groff, I don't know. Do you
Speaker 1: have names that you want to Summaranian? Yeah? What about
Speaker 1: Prince Andrew? How often did you connect them? Graff? Oh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: he spoke with Prince Andrew. Summaranian? How often, Graf? If
Speaker 1: Prince Andrew was in town, you know, let's say it
Speaker 1: would be the week he was in town. But after
Speaker 1: that he went back to the UK. You know, it
Speaker 1: was infrequent, mister Submaranian. What about elwud Brock, former Prime Minister,
Speaker 1: Miss Groff elhwud Brock, yes, mister Submaranian. How often would
Speaker 1: they meet? Miss Groff? Well, the same thing if elhud
Speaker 1: was in town. If mister Brock was in town, they
Speaker 1: would meet for breakfast, lunch, dinner, have appointments, But when
Speaker 1: he was out of town it would be less frequent.
Speaker 1: Mister Submaranian. Did you make appointments for any of his
Speaker 1: assistants or any of the girls around with other people? Answer? No,
Speaker 1: mister Submaranian. So it was always appointments for Jeffrey Epstein
Speaker 1: and someone else. It never veered from that. Groff, correct, Submaranian.
Speaker 1: So what about Glenn Maxwell without Jeffrey Epstein, would you
Speaker 1: ever set anything up, Grof. I didn't set up appointments
Speaker 1: for miss Maxwell. Submaranian. Did you ever arrange travel for
Speaker 1: mister Epstein and the girls Groff is traveling assistants Submaranian? Yes, Groff,
Speaker 1: they would go on the plane with them, Submaranian. Did
Speaker 1: you arrange like, did you handle their passports or view
Speaker 1: their passports in any way? Grof? No, Summaranian, So you
Speaker 1: never saw their passports, Miss Groff. I may have seen
Speaker 1: a passport a picture of a passport, but I never
Speaker 1: had anything to do with the passports, mister Submaranian, So
Speaker 1: you didn't arrange their travel, just his travel, Groff. If
Speaker 1: an assistant needed to meet with them, say one assistant
Speaker 1: was going to leave and another assistant was going to
Speaker 1: come in, then I might make a commercial airline flight
Speaker 1: for that assistant, Submaranian, And so you would handle their idea.
Speaker 1: Is that correct for making a commercial airline Graff? I
Speaker 1: never had their ID? Smranian. You never handle id, Graff, No, Smranian.
Speaker 1: Would you have to insert the birthdate? Graff? Insert the
Speaker 1: birth date? Sure? Some Iranian? So you knew their ages
Speaker 1: of any of the girls gets cut off by Graff, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would know it. At the time. Sure, Somemranian, okay.
Speaker 1: Were any of them under eighteen graf? No, Somemmranian okay?
Speaker 1: So everyone where you handled their information was over eighteen
Speaker 1: graph Yes, summaranium okay? Great? And then do you know
Speaker 1: who you must have known who Barbara and Bambit was?
Speaker 1: Is that correct? Graf? Yes, Summaranian. And do you know
Speaker 1: what I'm referring to when I say BBB girls graf?
Speaker 1: I do somemaranium. What is your understanding of that? Miss Graff?
Speaker 1: There were Barbar's best and brightest. I think that's what
Speaker 1: the BBB stood for. They were the Stockholm School of
Speaker 1: Economics and they were, you know, very bright women that
Speaker 1: I think it was a social group or a mentoring
Speaker 1: group of hers. Somemranium are you aware of it? Looks
Speaker 1: like my time is up. I'll move on to the
Speaker 1: next questioner. Now it's Melanie Stansbury, Miss Stansbury High, Miss
Speaker 1: Groff High. Stansbury, thank you so much for coming in.
Speaker 1: We appreciate it. I'm Melanie Stansbury. I represent New Mexico,
Speaker 1: and as you are probably aware, New Mexico is passed
Speaker 1: a bipartisan Truth Commission that is trying to piece together
Speaker 1: the story of Zoro Ranch what happened there, to understand
Speaker 1: the abuse of both people who are brought to the
Speaker 1: ranch as well as locals who are recruited for massages.
Speaker 1: And it's completely bipartisan effort, and really our effort is
Speaker 1: really to get to the heart of it. And so
Speaker 1: I see on various flight records that you visited Zoro Ranch.
Speaker 1: Did you travel? You did not, Groff, I never went
Speaker 1: to Zoro Ranch, Stansbury, Okay, I'm sorry, I thought you
Speaker 1: had Groff. No, Stansbury, did you schedule massages for mister
Speaker 1: Epstein while he was at Zoro Ranch, Miss Groff, It's possible.
Speaker 1: Nothing comes to mind, but it's possible, Stansbury, given that
Speaker 1: you were, you had eyes on a schedule, and you
Speaker 1: were arranging various activities for him while he was traveling.
Speaker 1: Are there prominent New Mexico figures or people associated with
Speaker 1: New Mexico other than the Governor, who you already mentioned
Speaker 1: that you scheduled appointments for that you were aware of
Speaker 1: that he was hanging out with. Miss Groff. No, I
Speaker 1: don't recall anybody except the Governor, Miss Stansbury. So what
Speaker 1: was your understanding of why he was going to New Mexico,
Speaker 1: Miss Groff, that was kind of like vacation time for him.
Speaker 1: He didn't go very often, Stansbury. About how often would
Speaker 1: you say he went? Groff once a year, Maybe it
Speaker 1: was his least visited location, Stansbury. So did you not
Speaker 1: schedule appointments and meetings and massages for him while he
Speaker 1: was there? Groff? I would, but I would say that
Speaker 1: it became a lot less. I think it was more
Speaker 1: like a vacation, if you will, Stansbury. So who was
Speaker 1: the scheduler at that time, Groff? It would be whatever,
Speaker 1: whoever traveling assistant Stansbury, Okay, Miss Groff. They would be
Speaker 1: there on the premise. And he had a full staff
Speaker 1: there in ranch hands. Not that the ranch hands were
Speaker 1: scheduling appointments, but he did have a staff that lived there.
Speaker 1: I believe you're around. It was not a place that
Speaker 1: he went very often that I could see, Stansbury, Okay.
Speaker 1: In terms of scheduling massages. In the earlier part of
Speaker 1: the interview today, you said, as I heard you say
Speaker 1: that you schedule massages often on a daily basis for
Speaker 1: mister Epstein, And you also said in your earlier statement
Speaker 1: that you also scheduled massages for others. Can you tell
Speaker 1: us of the people you schedule massages for other than
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein Groff, Yeah, sure, I recall Kathy Rumler. He
Speaker 1: would he'd like to give spot cards as gifts, and
Speaker 1: I know that he gave her a SPA gift or
Speaker 1: treatments just to help her out. I think she was
Speaker 1: very busy. Stansbury. Can you pull up some more names
Speaker 1: because we have limited time here, Groff, She's the only
Speaker 1: one that comes to mind that I can recall. Stansbury,
Speaker 1: did you ever schedule massages for men? Groff? It's possible.
Speaker 1: I don't recall a man that I would have scheduled
Speaker 1: a massage for Stansbury. Okay, moving on to your renuneration
Speaker 1: of your employment with mister Epstein. There's email correspondence in
Speaker 1: the files the DJ release that indicate that at least once,
Speaker 1: if not multiple times, in your employment you were paid
Speaker 1: through a loan that you arranged with Richard Kahn, and
Speaker 1: it actually says in the correspondence that it was forgivable
Speaker 1: upon his death. Groth. Yes, Stansbury, have you received any
Speaker 1: lump sums or loans that you can tell us the
Speaker 1: total amount of money you receive from Jeffrey Epstein or
Speaker 1: his estate Grof. So in twenty sixteen, I believe my
Speaker 1: salary did change to a loan plus a small paycheck,
Speaker 1: and the loan I just was told it was a
Speaker 1: new structure that my salary would be and how it
Speaker 1: would be now. And in twenty sixteen it was one
Speaker 1: hundred thousand, and I believe it was the same for
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, and then in twenty nineteen it
Speaker 1: was one hundred and ten thousand. But as that happened,
Speaker 1: the salary portion became less Stansbury. But did you receive
Speaker 1: any other large lump sums outside your salary? Graf, No,
Speaker 1: except for maybe a bonus the ten thousand dollars bonus
Speaker 1: I mentioned in two thousand and five. And it's possible
Speaker 1: I got some bonuses, but I think that ten thousand
Speaker 1: was the biggest one I ever received. Stansbury. Have you
Speaker 1: ever received any money from his estate after his death? Graff?
Speaker 1: From his estate after his death, Yes, When I retained
Speaker 1: my attorneys, he had set up some sort of fund
Speaker 1: to pay my attorney's bills. The minute he died that
Speaker 1: seams to exist anymore. I don't recall how Stansbury cuts
Speaker 1: her off. How much money did you receive from the estate, Graf? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't recall. My attorneys would submit the invoices to
Speaker 1: the estate. Stansbury. Did you receive any other money aside
Speaker 1: from attorney fees from the estate, Graff? Recently, miss Woodcomb
Speaker 1: she set aside from attorney fees, Graff, aside from attorney fees,
Speaker 1: would com I think so, Stansbury. I would like to
Speaker 1: hear the rest of your answer, go ahead, Graff, Yeah,
Speaker 1: aside from attorney fees, no, Stansbury, okay. And then I
Speaker 1: have one final question, which is you are named as
Speaker 1: a co conspirator in the DOJ's investigation of the case.
Speaker 1: Beyond the original non prosecution agreement. Your name appears multiple
Speaker 1: times from twenty nineteen through Maxwell's prosecution. Did you ever
Speaker 1: receive any sort of plea agreement? Were you investigated by
Speaker 1: the DOJ? What's the status of the DOJ's investigation into you, Graff,
Speaker 1: there's no plea deal. I did sit with them voluntarily
Speaker 1: and answered all their questions, and they deem me not
Speaker 1: guilty of being a co conspirator. Stansbury was that put
Speaker 1: in writing somewhere Groff, I believe we asked them to
Speaker 1: do that, but they said that's not something they do. Stansbury. Well,
Speaker 1: if we're able to provide any correspondence to the committee,
Speaker 1: that would be very helpful. Thank you appreciated. All Right, folks,
Speaker 1: we're gonna wrap up right here, and in the next
Speaker 1: episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where
Speaker 1: we left off. All the information that goes with this
Speaker 1: episode can be found in the description box.