WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Bedtime Astronomy. Explore the wonders of the cosmos

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<v Speaker 1>with our soothing Bedtime Astronomie podcast. Each episode offers a

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<v Speaker 1>gentle journey through the stars, planets, and beyond, perfect for

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<v Speaker 1>unwinding after a long day. Let's travel through the mysteries

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<v Speaker 1>of the universe as you drift off into a peaceful

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<v Speaker 1>slumber under the night sky.

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<v Speaker 2>Mars. Let's be honest. When you close your eyes and

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<v Speaker 2>picture it, what do you see? You see the rust

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<v Speaker 2>right the rest, You see that endless oxidized orange dust,

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<v Speaker 2>just rocks that have been sitting there, baking in radiation

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<v Speaker 2>for three billion years. It is the definitive desert planet.

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<v Speaker 3>It is, I mean in our collective imagination and certainly

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<v Speaker 3>in the images we get from the rovers. It's a

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<v Speaker 3>place of absolute desiccation. It really makes the Sahara look

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<v Speaker 3>like a rainforest exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>And the story we've been told, the story of the

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<v Speaker 2>basically in all the textbooks, is that the water is gone,

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<v Speaker 2>or well, if it's not gone, it's locked up in

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<v Speaker 2>the attic in the basement at poles, right at the poles.

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<v Speaker 3>That's the prevailing narrative. We know there is water ice

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<v Speaker 3>at the poles. We can literally see the white caps.

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<v Speaker 3>But for human exploration, you know, for the dream of

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<v Speaker 3>actually living there, the poles are well.

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<v Speaker 2>The problematic problematic is a very very polite way of

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<v Speaker 2>saying absolutely lethal, isn't it?

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<v Speaker 3>It really is.

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<v Speaker 2>But here is where it gets interesting for our deep

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<v Speaker 2>dive today. What if that story is wrong, or not

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<v Speaker 2>wrong exactly, but missing a massive chapter.

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<v Speaker 3>A huge chapter, right?

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<v Speaker 2>What if there are gigantic reserves of water. We're talking

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<v Speaker 2>massive active glaciers hiding in plain sight right near the equator,

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<v Speaker 2>exactly where we want to land, and the only reason

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<v Speaker 2>we haven't seen them is because they are wearing a disguise.

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<v Speaker 3>It sounds like a conspiracy theory, doesn't it. But this

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<v Speaker 3>is actually the central thesis of a fascinating new piece

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<v Speaker 3>of research we are unpacking today.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So today we are looking at a breakdown of

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<v Speaker 2>a study published in the journal Icarus by Mme de

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<v Speaker 2>Pablo and a team of researchers. And the specific article

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<v Speaker 2>that caught our eye was from Universe Today, written by

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<v Speaker 2>Andy Thomas Wick titled Martian Volcanoes could be hiding massive

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<v Speaker 2>glaciers under a blanket of ash.

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<v Speaker 3>And this research essentially proposes that we might be sitting

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<v Speaker 3>on the resource jackpot of the Solar System. But to

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<v Speaker 3>find it, we have to stop looking at Mars like

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<v Speaker 3>a dead rock and start understanding how volcanoes and ice

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<v Speaker 3>interact and really specific ways.

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<v Speaker 2>And to do that we have to start, of all

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<v Speaker 2>places in Antarctica we do.

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<v Speaker 3>We have to look at a very specific, very strange

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<v Speaker 3>island on Earth to decode what is happening on Mars.

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<v Speaker 2>So here is the mission for this deep dive. We're

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<v Speaker 2>going to find out how a volcano in Antarctica is

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<v Speaker 2>basically the decoder ring for Martian geology. We are going

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<v Speaker 2>to look at the smoking guns that prove these glaciers exist.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll explain why our billion dollar radar satellites completely miss them.

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<v Speaker 2>And then we are going to talk about the catch, the.

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<v Speaker 3>Legal catch, the incredible irony that finding this water might

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<v Speaker 3>make it illegal to actually touch.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, So settle in. We are going really deep on

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<v Speaker 2>this one.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's do it.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to start with the accessibility problem because I

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<v Speaker 2>feel like a lot of people listening might think, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>water is water. If we know there's ice at the

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<v Speaker 2>Martian poles, why are we so obsessively hunting for it

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<v Speaker 2>at the equator. Why can't we just land at the

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<v Speaker 2>North Pole, melt some ice and make a cup of tea.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a great question, and it really comes down to

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<v Speaker 3>the sheer brutality of the Martian environment. You have to

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<v Speaker 3>remember Mars is already incredibly cold. The average global temperature

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<v Speaker 3>is something like minus eighty degrees fahrenheit, but the poles,

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<v Speaker 3>the poles are a completely different beast.

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<v Speaker 2>How cold are we actually talking.

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<v Speaker 3>During the polar winter? You are looking at temperatures dropping

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<v Speaker 3>to minus one hundred and ninety five degrees fahrenheit.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that is cold enough to freeze carbon dioxide directly

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<v Speaker 3>out of the atmosphere. That is actually why the caps

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<v Speaker 3>grow and shrink. It's dry ice freezing and sublimating.

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<v Speaker 2>Right. So, if I am trying to run a habitat

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<v Speaker 2>or rover or just keep my blood like wed.

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<v Speaker 3>You are fighting a losing battle. Materials become brittle, electronics fail,

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<v Speaker 3>lubricants freeze solid, and then there is the darkness. The

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<v Speaker 3>polar regions on ours, just like here on Earth, experience

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<v Speaker 3>months of total darkness. If you are relying on solar power,

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<v Speaker 3>which is our primary energy source, for these missions, you

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<v Speaker 3>are dead in the water.

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<v Speaker 2>So operationally speaking, the poles are a.

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<v Speaker 3>Nightmare, an absolute nightmare. But there is another layer to this,

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<v Speaker 3>which is the regulatory hurdle, the space lawyers, the planetary

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<v Speaker 3>protection officers. Yes, we have an international agreement that we

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<v Speaker 3>cannot contaminate what are called special regions on Mars. A

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<v Speaker 3>special region is defined essentially as anywhere that earth microbes

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<v Speaker 3>might be able to survive and replicate.

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<v Speaker 2>And since life needs water.

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<v Speaker 3>Exactly the poles have accessible water. Ice if we crash

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<v Speaker 3>a lander there, or if a human walks around there

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<v Speaker 3>with a leaky spacesuit, we could introduce earth bacteria into

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<v Speaker 3>a water rich environment that could completely destroy our ability

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<v Speaker 3>to ever detect native Martian life. We simply wouldn't know

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<v Speaker 3>if the bugs we found were Martians or just hitchhikers

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<v Speaker 3>from Florida.

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<v Speaker 2>So the poles are essentially the forbidden zone.

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<v Speaker 3>That's right. They are the most scientifically valuable spots, so

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<v Speaker 3>we aren't allowed to touch them without extreme billion dollar

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<v Speaker 3>sterilization protocols that just aren't feasible for large scale human

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<v Speaker 3>missions yet, which brings us.

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<v Speaker 2>To the holy grail. We need water, but we need

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<v Speaker 2>it where it's warm, where there is sunlight and where

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<v Speaker 2>the planetary protection rules are a little more relaxed. We

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<v Speaker 2>need water at the equator.

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<v Speaker 3>Ideally, yes, the mid latitudes or the equator. That is

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<v Speaker 3>where you have the solar energy. That is where the

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<v Speaker 3>thermal management of your base is easier. That is where

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<v Speaker 3>you want to build.

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<v Speaker 2>The equator is dry, it's a desert.

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<v Speaker 3>Well that has been the assumption. We look at the

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<v Speaker 3>equator and we see dust, we see rock. But for

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<v Speaker 3>decades geologists have been looking at satellite images of these regions,

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<v Speaker 3>specifically around the volcanoes, and seeing things that look well.

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<v Speaker 2>Wrong, wrong, how like out of place.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they see shapes, low bait shapes, these long tongues

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<v Speaker 3>of material that look like they flowed down a hill.

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<v Speaker 3>If you saw that exact shape on Earth, you would

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<v Speaker 3>immediately say that is a glacier. But on Mars at

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<v Speaker 3>the equator, exposed ice is impossible. It would sublimate, turned

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<v Speaker 3>straight from a solid into a gas almost instantly in

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<v Speaker 3>that thin atmosphere.

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<v Speaker 2>So a scientist are looking at these shapes and saying

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<v Speaker 2>it looks like a glacier, but physics says it absolutely

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<v Speaker 2>cannot be a glacier.

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<v Speaker 3>Exactly, and that cognitive dissonance is exactly what this new

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<v Speaker 3>paper is trying to resolve. They are basically saying it

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<v Speaker 3>is a glacier. It's just wearing a heavy coat.

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<v Speaker 2>And to prove that they found a twin, a geological

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<v Speaker 2>twin right here on Earth, let's talk about Deception Island.

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<v Speaker 3>Ah, Deception Island. It is genuinely one of my favorite

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<v Speaker 3>places on Earth geologically speaking.

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<v Speaker 2>Even the name Deception Island it sounds like a villain's

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<v Speaker 2>layer from a spy movie.

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<v Speaker 3>It really does. It's actually located in the South Shetland Islands,

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<v Speaker 3>just off the Antarctic Peninsula. And it's named that because

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<v Speaker 3>from the outside, from the ocean, it looks like a solid,

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<v Speaker 3>impregnable island. But it's actually a donut. It's a ring

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<v Speaker 3>a caldera, right, It's the flooded caldera of an active volcano.

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<v Speaker 3>You can actually sail a ship right through a narrow

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<v Speaker 3>breach in the wall, a spot called Neptune's Bellows and

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<v Speaker 3>anchor inside the center of the volcano.

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<v Speaker 2>That sounds incredibly ominous, Yeah, anchoring your ship inside an

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<v Speaker 2>active volcano.

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<v Speaker 3>It is, And it's not just technically active. It is historically,

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<v Speaker 3>very recently active. This thing erupted multiple times in the

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<v Speaker 3>late nineteen sixties and nineteen seventies, and those specific eruptions

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<v Speaker 3>are the key to unlocking our Martian mystery.

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<v Speaker 2>Because Deception Island isn't just made of rock, it's rock

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<v Speaker 2>and ice exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>It's heavily glaciated. So when those eruptions happen, specifically the

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<v Speaker 3>big ones in nineteen sixty nine and nineteen seventy, you

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<v Speaker 3>had this violent, chaotic interaction between magma and ice.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, when I think of lava meating ice, I think

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<v Speaker 2>of melting, I think of massive steam clouds and catastrophic floods.

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<v Speaker 3>And that definitely does happen. But here's the nuance we

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<v Speaker 3>need to look at. These were what we call free

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<v Speaker 3>podo magmatic eruptions.

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<v Speaker 2>Freedomagnetic. Okay, that is a five dollars word. Break that

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<v Speaker 2>down for us.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure.

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<v Speaker 3>It means the magma interacts directly with water, usually groundwater

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<v Speaker 3>or glacial melt, and it basically explodes. The steam expansion

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<v Speaker 3>pulverizes the magma into tiny microscopic fragments ash dust. So

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<v Speaker 3>instead of just flowing rivers of lava, you get these massive,

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<v Speaker 3>towering plumes of black ash raining down on everything for miles.

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<v Speaker 2>So it essentially rained black dust onto these pristine white glaciers.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, it blanketed them completely. And here's where the physics

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<v Speaker 3>gets incredibly cool. You'd instinctly think hot ash falling on

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<v Speaker 3>a glacier would melt the whole thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, hot rock, cold ice melting ensues, But ash is

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<v Speaker 2>very porous.

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<v Speaker 3>It is full of tiny air pockets. It's actually an

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<v Speaker 3>incredible insulator. Think of it like a giant blanket of styrofoam.

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<v Speaker 3>If you put a thin layer of hot ash on ice,

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<v Speaker 3>Sure the top millimeter melts, but once that ash cools down,

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<v Speaker 3>it forms a crust, a thermal barrier.

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<v Speaker 2>So it stops being a heat source and immediately starts

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<v Speaker 2>being protective blanket exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>It shields the ice from the sun, It shields it

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<v Speaker 3>from the wind, It traps the cold. In so on

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<v Speaker 3>Deception Island today, there are places where you can walk

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<v Speaker 3>on what looks for all the world like a dirt hill.

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<v Speaker 3>It's gray, it's rocky, it looks like solid ground. But

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<v Speaker 3>if you were to dig down just a meter or

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<v Speaker 3>so with a shovel, you would hit solid ancient glacial ice.

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<v Speaker 2>A dirty glacier or glacier in an earth suit.

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<v Speaker 3>A debris covered glacier, that is the technical term. And

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<v Speaker 3>this gives us a very clear model a mechanism. If

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<v Speaker 3>it can happen so perfectly on Deception Island, could it

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<v Speaker 3>happen on Mars.

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<v Speaker 2>So the researchers took this model volcano erupts ash covers ice,

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<v Speaker 2>ice survives, and they looked at Mars and they found

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<v Speaker 2>a match.

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<v Speaker 3>They did they turned their attention to a specific region

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<v Speaker 3>called hecate Stolus hicicety Stillus.

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<v Speaker 2>Another great name.

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<v Speaker 3>Who is Heckeity the Greek goddess of magic, crossroads and ghosts,

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<v Speaker 3>which is actually very fitting for a dead volcano.

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<v Speaker 2>Very fitting. So what exactly is Hickey Stillness.

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<v Speaker 3>It's an ancient shield volcano in the northern hemisphere of Mars.

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<v Speaker 3>It's incredibly old. We are talking billions of years. But

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<v Speaker 3>when the researchers looked at the flanks of this volcano,

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<v Speaker 3>the long slopes leading down from the peak, they saw

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<v Speaker 3>the exact same morphological features they saw on Deception Island.

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<v Speaker 2>Morphology meaning the physical shape and texture of the land.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, They didn't just see generic rocks or impact craters,

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<v Speaker 3>they saw specific patterns that on Earth only ever form

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<v Speaker 3>when you have a massive body of ice moving under

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<v Speaker 3>a blanket of debris.

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<v Speaker 2>So the working hypothesis is this Hicky Stolus erupted a

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<v Speaker 2>long time ago. It spewed massive amounts of ash. That

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<v Speaker 2>ash covered the glaciers that were sitting at its base,

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<v Speaker 2>and now millions or billions of years later, those exact

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<v Speaker 2>same glaciers are still sitting there, perfectly preserved under a

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<v Speaker 2>layer of rock and dust.

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<v Speaker 3>That is the theory. But in planetary science, you can't

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<v Speaker 3>just look at a picture and say, well, it looks similar,

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<v Speaker 3>so it must be the same thing. You need proof.

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<v Speaker 3>You need evidence that creates a signature that only ice

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<v Speaker 3>can create.

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<v Speaker 2>The smoking guns.

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<v Speaker 3>The smoking guns, and this paper identifies three very distinct ones.

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<v Speaker 2>Let's walk through these because this is the real detective work.

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<v Speaker 2>Smoking gun number one crevasses.

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<v Speaker 3>Crevasses. Now, most people kind of know what a crevass

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<v Speaker 3>is if you've seen a documentary about climbers on Everest.

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<v Speaker 3>It's the terrifying, seemingly bottomless crack in.

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<v Speaker 2>The ice, right the abyss you didn't want to fall into.

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<v Speaker 3>Exactly, But physically, why does a crevass actually form. It

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<v Speaker 3>forms because ice is a solid, but on a massive scale,

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<v Speaker 3>it flows like a very very slow, thick liquid. It

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<v Speaker 3>is plastic. When that flowing ice goes over a bump

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<v Speaker 3>in the bedrock beneath it, or has to turn a corner,

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<v Speaker 3>it stretches, and because the top layer of the ice

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<v Speaker 3>is brittle, it snaps. It cracks.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So cracks mean movement precisely.

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<v Speaker 3>If you just have a pile of dirt static bert

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<v Speaker 3>it doesn't form systematic, deep parallel cracks. It might slump

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<v Speaker 3>a bit in a landslide, but it doesn't fracture in

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<v Speaker 3>these very specific, predictable patterns.

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<v Speaker 2>And we see these exact cracks on Deception Island.

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<v Speaker 3>We do. We see them incredibly clearly in the high

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<v Speaker 3>resolution satellite imagery of the ash covered glaciers there. And crucially,

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<v Speaker 3>we see these exact same fracture patterns on the slopes

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<v Speaker 3>of Hegetistolus.

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<v Speaker 2>So we are looking at a Martian surface that is

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<v Speaker 2>broken in a way that suggests the material underneath it

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<v Speaker 2>is stretching and flowing downhill.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, it implies that the core of that dirt pile

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<v Speaker 3>is actually something mobile, something that behaves exactly like ice.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, that is compelling, but rock can crack, earthquakes happen.

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<v Speaker 2>What makes it definite? That brings us to smoking gun

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<v Speaker 2>number two. And this is a word I had honestly

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<v Speaker 2>never heard before reading this paper. The berg shrund.

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<v Speaker 3>The berg shrund. It's a wonderful German word, berg meaning mountain,

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<v Speaker 3>shrund meaning cleft or fissure.

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<v Speaker 2>It sounds like a heavy metal band.

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<v Speaker 3>We are the Bergschrund, it really does. But geologically speaking,

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<v Speaker 3>it is a very specific, very important feature. A berg

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<v Speaker 3>shrund is a special type of crevass that forms at

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<v Speaker 3>the very top of a glacier at.

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<v Speaker 2>The head right.

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<v Speaker 3>Imagine a massive glacier sitting in a mountain valley. The

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<v Speaker 3>top edge of the ice is frozen solid to the

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<v Speaker 3>mountain rock face. It's stuck there, But the rest of

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<v Speaker 3>the massive body of the glacier is incredibly heavy and

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<v Speaker 3>gravity is constantly pulling it down the valley.

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<v Speaker 2>So it pulls apart.

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<v Speaker 3>It tears away. The moving ice physically rips away from

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<v Speaker 3>the stagnant ice or the rock face. That tear creates

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<v Speaker 3>a massive, deep, gaping crack right at the very top

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<v Speaker 3>of the system. That is the bergshrund.

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<v Speaker 2>It's the separation point. It's basically the ice saying I'm

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<v Speaker 2>leaving now exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>And here is the kicker for our Martian mystery. You

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<v Speaker 3>do not get a bergshrund in a landslide, You do

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<v Speaker 3>not get it in a rock fall or a tectonic fault.

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<v Speaker 3>You only get it when you have a cohesive, highly

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<v Speaker 3>viscous mass that is slowly sliding downhill under its own

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<v Speaker 3>immense weight.

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<v Speaker 2>And we found these specific formations on Mars.

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<v Speaker 3>We did the team identified surface features at Hekkati's Goullis

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<v Speaker 3>that match the geometry of an earth bergshrund perfectly. And

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<v Speaker 3>we aren't talking about small little cracks here. Some of

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<v Speaker 3>these features are up to six hundred meters long.

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<v Speaker 2>Six hundred meters it's like six football fields. That is huge.

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<v Speaker 3>It's massive. To have a continuous, sweeping fracture that large

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<v Speaker 3>implies an enormous body of material moving in absolute unison.

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<v Speaker 3>It is a very strong indicator that we aren't just

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<v Speaker 3>looking at loose dirt sliding down a hill. We are

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<v Speaker 3>looking at a coherent sheet of ice that is, or

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<v Speaker 3>at least was slowly sliding down the volcano that is wild.

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<v Speaker 2>So we have cracks showing flow, which are the crevasses,

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<v Speaker 2>and cracks showing detachment. The berg shruns. What is the

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<v Speaker 2>third smoking gun?

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<v Speaker 3>The third one is found at the other end of

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<v Speaker 3>the glacier, the bottom. It's the bulldozer effect.

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<v Speaker 2>I like the sound of that. What is the bulldozer effect?

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<v Speaker 3>Geologists formally call them push moraines. Imagine a massive bulldozer

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<v Speaker 3>driving through a field of loose soil and rocks. As

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<v Speaker 3>it pushes forward, a huge pile of debris builds up

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<v Speaker 3>right in front of the blade. Right now, imagine the

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<v Speaker 3>bulldozer just stops and backs up. That big ridge stays there.

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<v Speaker 2>It marks the furthest point the bulldozer ever reached exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>Glaciers are nature's bulldozers. As they slide down the valley,

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<v Speaker 3>they push thousands of tons of rock and soil in

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<v Speaker 3>front of them. When the glacier eventually retreats, or in

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<v Speaker 3>this specific case, when the ice simply stops moving and stabilizes,

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<v Speaker 3>it leaves behind these very specific, bumpy, ridged terrains at

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<v Speaker 3>the terminus.

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00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:28.120
<v Speaker 2>And I'm guessing we see this at Deception Island.

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<v Speaker 3>We see it clearly. The ash covered glaciers push the

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<v Speaker 3>debris into these distinct lobes, and we see almost identical

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<v Speaker 3>low bait ridges surrounding the base of the floes at Hecatistholus.

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<v Speaker 2>So let's put the whole puzzle together. Here we have

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<v Speaker 2>the massive detachment are at the top, the flow cracks

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<v Speaker 2>in the middle, and the rubble pile pushed up at

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<v Speaker 2>the bottom. It is the complete anatomy of a glacier.

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<v Speaker 3>It is. If it walks like a duck, quacks like

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00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:54.159
<v Speaker 3>a duck, and pushes rocks like a duck, it's probably

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<v Speaker 3>a glacier.

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<v Speaker 2>But and I have to play Devil's advocate here, because

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<v Speaker 2>there is a huge glaring difference between Antarctica and the atmosphere.

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<v Speaker 2>The atmosphere Mars is effectively a vacuum compared to Earth.

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00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:08.240
<v Speaker 2>The atmospheric pressure is tiny. If I took an ice

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<v Speaker 2>cube right now and put it on the equator of Mars,

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00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:14.000
<v Speaker 2>it wouldn't melt into a nice little puddle. It would sublimate.

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00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:17.120
<v Speaker 2>It would turn straight into gas and just vanish into

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00:16:17.159 --> 00:16:17.720
<v Speaker 2>the sin air.

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00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:22.360
<v Speaker 3>Correct exposed ice is fundamentally unstable at those Martian latitudes.

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00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:25.360
<v Speaker 2>So if these glaciers really are millions of years old.

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00:16:25.399 --> 00:16:28.080
<v Speaker 2>Why are they still there? Why haven't they just evaporated

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<v Speaker 2>away over the eons even with a dirt blanket. Surely

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00:16:31.759 --> 00:16:33.200
<v Speaker 2>the gas would eventually escape.

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<v Speaker 3>This is the survival mechanism question, and the authors of

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00:16:36.360 --> 00:16:39.600
<v Speaker 3>the paper propose a really elegant two stage process to

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00:16:39.679 --> 00:16:41.360
<v Speaker 3>explain exactly how it survived.

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00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:42.240
<v Speaker 2>Walk us through that.

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00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:46.320
<v Speaker 3>Okay, Stage one, the volcano erupts, the glacier is covered

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<v Speaker 3>in ash, but as we discussed with the crevasses, the

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00:16:48.799 --> 00:16:53.360
<v Speaker 3>glacier is still moving. It cracks, it forms these deep fissures.

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<v Speaker 2>Which opens the ice underneath directly to the Martian air

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00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:56.240
<v Speaker 2>right and at.

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<v Speaker 3>That exact moment, simblammation does happen. The pristine ice exposed

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00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:03.159
<v Speaker 3>deep in those cracks instantly turns to gas and escapes.

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00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:06.920
<v Speaker 3>But then stage two kicks in the patch kit exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>Mars is an incredibly dusty place. We have global dust storms,

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00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:14.559
<v Speaker 3>we have more volcanic ash falling over time. That ambient

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00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:17.039
<v Speaker 3>dust settles right into those open cracks.

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00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:20.079
<v Speaker 2>It fills them up like spackling a hole in drywall.

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00:17:19.720 --> 00:17:23.480
<v Speaker 3>Perfect analogy. The dust fills the crevasses and creates a

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00:17:23.519 --> 00:17:26.880
<v Speaker 3>dense plug. And once that plug is formed, the system

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00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:30.279
<v Speaker 3>is sealed, the dust gets compacted. It becomes a physical

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00:17:30.319 --> 00:17:33.480
<v Speaker 3>barrier that water vapor just cannot easily pass through.

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00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:36.519
<v Speaker 2>So the ice is basically trapped inside its own patched

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00:17:36.559 --> 00:17:37.000
<v Speaker 2>up shell.

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00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:40.640
<v Speaker 3>It's sealed in a geological time capsule. The authors argue

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<v Speaker 3>that what we see today, these shallow, dusty troughs on

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<v Speaker 3>the surface, are actually just the ghosts of the original crevasses.

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<v Speaker 3>The ice deep below has retreated slightly, the dust has

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00:17:49.960 --> 00:17:52.359
<v Speaker 3>slumped in to fill the void, and now the whole

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00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:56.039
<v Speaker 3>system is an equilibrium. The sublimation has stopped completely because

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<v Speaker 3>the seal is airtight, or well Mars tight.

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<v Speaker 2>That is incredible. The very environment that usually destroys the ice,

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00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:05.640
<v Speaker 2>the blowing dust and the dry conditions, actually helps seal

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<v Speaker 2>it in and protect it.

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00:18:06.839 --> 00:18:08.039
<v Speaker 3>Nature always finds a way.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So the geology makes sense, the physics of the

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00:18:10.359 --> 00:18:15.279
<v Speaker 2>preservation makes sense. But there is one giant, billion dollar

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00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:18.519
<v Speaker 2>technological elephant in the room, and we really have to

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00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:22.799
<v Speaker 2>address it. Sure, Charad. The shallow radar instrument on the

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00:18:22.839 --> 00:18:26.799
<v Speaker 2>Mars Reconnaissance orbiter. This is a machine built specifically to

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00:18:26.839 --> 00:18:30.640
<v Speaker 2>find underground ice. It sends radar ways down. They bounce

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00:18:30.680 --> 00:18:33.160
<v Speaker 2>off the subsurface ice and we get a nice picture.

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00:18:34.200 --> 00:18:37.240
<v Speaker 2>We have used it to map the poles, we have

385
00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:40.000
<v Speaker 2>used it to find buried ice all over the planet.

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00:18:40.119 --> 00:18:42.799
<v Speaker 3>It is arguably our primary tool for exactly this kind

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00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:43.160
<v Speaker 3>of work.

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00:18:43.359 --> 00:18:47.519
<v Speaker 2>So did it be when Shared flew directly over Hekatious Stulless,

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00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:49.720
<v Speaker 2>did it's a bing giant glacier right here?

390
00:18:49.799 --> 00:18:52.920
<v Speaker 3>It did not. It was completely silent, worse than silent. Actually,

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00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:55.279
<v Speaker 3>it gave us noise clutter. And for a long time

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00:18:55.319 --> 00:18:58.000
<v Speaker 3>critics of the glacier theory have used that as definitive proof.

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00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:00.279
<v Speaker 3>They say, look, if there was a mile thick glacier

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00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:03.160
<v Speaker 3>sitting right there, the radar would absolutely see it. Didn't

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00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:04.920
<v Speaker 3>see it. Therefore, just a pile of rock.

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00:19:05.079 --> 00:19:06.960
<v Speaker 2>That sounds pretty logical on the surface.

397
00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:10.960
<v Speaker 3>It sounds logical, but it completely ignores the physical limitations

398
00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:14.559
<v Speaker 3>of the technology itself. The paper argues that Charade is

399
00:19:14.559 --> 00:19:18.720
<v Speaker 3>the right tool, but hecatas Thullus is the absolute wrong

400
00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:19.880
<v Speaker 3>geometry for it.

401
00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:23.359
<v Speaker 2>Explain that why does the physical shape of the volcano

402
00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:24.839
<v Speaker 2>matter to a radar beam?

403
00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:28.039
<v Speaker 3>Okay, let's do a little bit of physics. Charad works

404
00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:31.400
<v Speaker 3>by sending a chirp, a radio pulse straight down towards

405
00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:34.480
<v Speaker 3>the planet. We call that nator pointing. The pulse hits

406
00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:37.359
<v Speaker 3>the surface and part of it bounces back, part of

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00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:40.720
<v Speaker 3>it penetrates the ground, hits the denser layer of ice below,

408
00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:42.079
<v Speaker 3>and bounces back, and.

409
00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:44.319
<v Speaker 2>You measure the time difference between the two bounces to

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00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:46.799
<v Speaker 2>figure out exactly how thick the ice is exactly.

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00:19:47.319 --> 00:19:50.839
<v Speaker 3>But this entire system relies on what we call speculaar reflection.

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00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:54.200
<v Speaker 3>Think of it like a mirror. If you stand directly

413
00:19:54.279 --> 00:19:56.640
<v Speaker 3>over a mirror that is laying perfectly flat on the floor,

414
00:19:56.839 --> 00:19:59.279
<v Speaker 3>and you shine a flashlight straight down at it, the

415
00:19:59.319 --> 00:20:01.319
<v Speaker 3>beam bands is straight back up into your eyes. You

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00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:02.240
<v Speaker 3>see the bright reflection.

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00:20:02.359 --> 00:20:03.200
<v Speaker 2>Okay, it makes sense.

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00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:06.039
<v Speaker 3>Now, imagine that same mirror is on a steep slope,

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00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:09.319
<v Speaker 3>say it's tilted twenty degrees. You are still standing directly

420
00:20:09.319 --> 00:20:12.200
<v Speaker 3>above it. You shine your flashlights straight down. Where does

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00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:12.680
<v Speaker 3>the being go.

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00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:14.720
<v Speaker 2>It bounces off at an angle, It hits the wall

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00:20:14.759 --> 00:20:17.039
<v Speaker 2>across the room. It definitely doesn't come back to.

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<v Speaker 3>My eyes exactly. The receiver antenna on the satellite is

425
00:20:20.440 --> 00:20:25.319
<v Speaker 3>your eyes. Because Hektisthalis is a volcano, it inherently has

426
00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:29.359
<v Speaker 3>steep sloping flanks. The radar pulse hits that slope and

427
00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:32.880
<v Speaker 3>scatters wildly away from the spacecraft. We just don't get

428
00:20:32.920 --> 00:20:34.200
<v Speaker 3>a clean echo back.

429
00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:37.000
<v Speaker 2>So we aren't seeing no ice. We are just seeing

430
00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:38.119
<v Speaker 2>a deflected signal.

431
00:20:38.240 --> 00:20:41.440
<v Speaker 3>We are seeing blindness. We are seeing clutter caused by

432
00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:44.400
<v Speaker 3>the extreme roughness and the sharp angle of the terrain.

433
00:20:45.079 --> 00:20:47.799
<v Speaker 3>The lack of a clear signal is not evidence of absence,

434
00:20:47.839 --> 00:20:50.119
<v Speaker 3>It's simply evidence of a bad viewing angle.

435
00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:53.839
<v Speaker 2>So the most sophisticated scanning tool we have is essentially

436
00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:58.119
<v Speaker 2>useless for this specific type of geological formation until.

437
00:20:57.799 --> 00:21:00.559
<v Speaker 3>We can physically tilt the radar or get a completely

438
00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:04.039
<v Speaker 3>different vantage point. Yes, we are flying blind, which brings

439
00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:06.039
<v Speaker 3>us right back to the visual evidence. We have to

440
00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:09.799
<v Speaker 3>trust our eyes the morphology because our ears the radar

441
00:21:09.880 --> 00:21:11.720
<v Speaker 3>just aren't working. In this context, this.

442
00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:15.920
<v Speaker 2>Feels like a classic scientific standoff. The visual data screams yes,

443
00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:18.799
<v Speaker 2>it's a glacier, and the radar says, I have no idea.

444
00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:22.440
<v Speaker 3>And in the complete absence of radar confirmation, the deception

445
00:21:22.519 --> 00:21:26.279
<v Speaker 3>island analog becomes the absolute strongest argument we have. We

446
00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:29.960
<v Speaker 3>know for a fact this exact morphology means buried ice

447
00:21:30.039 --> 00:21:33.240
<v Speaker 3>on Earth. It is by far the most logical explanation

448
00:21:33.319 --> 00:21:34.519
<v Speaker 3>for what we are seeing on Mars.

449
00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:37.720
<v Speaker 2>So let's assume for a minute they're right. Let's assume, hey,

450
00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:41.519
<v Speaker 2>Katie'stolus is indeed sitting on a massive buried glacier. And

451
00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:44.440
<v Speaker 2>let's assume, as the article suggests that this might be

452
00:21:44.519 --> 00:21:48.720
<v Speaker 2>true for other massive volcanoes on Mars Olympus, Mons Rga,

453
00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:50.000
<v Speaker 2>Mons Scrace month.

454
00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:53.079
<v Speaker 3>It would completely change the inventory of water on Mars.

455
00:21:53.359 --> 00:21:55.720
<v Speaker 3>We aren't just talking about a few hitting buckets of frost.

456
00:21:55.759 --> 00:21:59.240
<v Speaker 3>We are talking about hundreds of cubic kilometers of pure

457
00:21:59.319 --> 00:22:01.079
<v Speaker 3>fresh waters sitting near the equator.

458
00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:04.079
<v Speaker 2>So what does this actually mean for us for the

459
00:22:04.119 --> 00:22:07.160
<v Speaker 2>future of human exploration on Mars, Because this really feels

460
00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:09.559
<v Speaker 2>like the big so wet moment of the whole discussion.

461
00:22:09.759 --> 00:22:12.160
<v Speaker 3>It is a total game changer for what NASA calls

462
00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:14.559
<v Speaker 3>in city resource utilization.

463
00:22:14.279 --> 00:22:16.440
<v Speaker 2>Is SRU living off the land.

464
00:22:16.359 --> 00:22:19.000
<v Speaker 3>Right, instead of bringing all our water from Earth, which

465
00:22:19.079 --> 00:22:21.799
<v Speaker 3>costs roughly ten thousand dollars a bottle just in launch weight,

466
00:22:22.119 --> 00:22:23.240
<v Speaker 3>we mine it right there.

467
00:22:23.480 --> 00:22:25.960
<v Speaker 2>So if this theory holds up, we don't need to

468
00:22:25.960 --> 00:22:27.759
<v Speaker 2>go to the deadly poles anymore. We don't need to

469
00:22:27.799 --> 00:22:30.119
<v Speaker 2>freeze to death in the dark. We can land comfortably

470
00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:32.799
<v Speaker 2>at the sunny equator, right next to a volcano which

471
00:22:32.920 --> 00:22:36.440
<v Speaker 2>might even still have some deep residual geothermal heat, and

472
00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:37.359
<v Speaker 2>we could just drill.

473
00:22:37.519 --> 00:22:40.200
<v Speaker 3>We drill through a few meters of soft volcanic ash,

474
00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:43.920
<v Speaker 3>and bam, we hit pure ancient massive ice.

475
00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:47.400
<v Speaker 2>And from that ice we get water to drink. We

476
00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:50.400
<v Speaker 2>crack the hydrogen and oxygen to make literal rocket fuel,

477
00:22:50.680 --> 00:22:53.880
<v Speaker 2>We make breathable air. Becomes the ultimate gas station and

478
00:22:54.039 --> 00:22:55.759
<v Speaker 2>oasis for a future colony.

479
00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:59.200
<v Speaker 3>It sounds perfect. It honestly sounds too perfect.

480
00:22:59.480 --> 00:23:01.799
<v Speaker 2>Usually is, And this is where the other shoe drops,

481
00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:03.440
<v Speaker 2>the legal shoe.

482
00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:04.519
<v Speaker 3>The Outer Space Treaty.

483
00:23:04.319 --> 00:23:07.119
<v Speaker 2>Article NAYAKS of the nineteen sixty seven Outer Space Treaty,

484
00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:09.799
<v Speaker 2>to be exact, it is the foundational document of all

485
00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:12.759
<v Speaker 2>space law, and it has a very specific clause about

486
00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:13.920
<v Speaker 2>harmful contamination.

487
00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:15.640
<v Speaker 3>This goes right back to what we talked about the

488
00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:18.319
<v Speaker 3>very beginning planetary protection protocols.

489
00:23:18.519 --> 00:23:21.680
<v Speaker 2>Right we avoid the poles because they are special regions.

490
00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:24.839
<v Speaker 2>We don't want to accidentally introduce our dirty earth microbes

491
00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:28.480
<v Speaker 2>that might kill off native Martian life or completely mess

492
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:29.720
<v Speaker 2>up our science experiment.

493
00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:33.200
<v Speaker 3>But right now we feel okay, about landing rivers at

494
00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:37.319
<v Speaker 3>the equator because we assume it's dry, dead rock, no water,

495
00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:40.039
<v Speaker 3>no potential for life, no problem exactly.

496
00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:44.759
<v Speaker 2>But if we prove that there is massive, easily accessible

497
00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:49.279
<v Speaker 2>water a few meters under the surface of these equatorial volcanoes.

498
00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:51.200
<v Speaker 3>Then the equator instantly becomes a special region.

499
00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:55.240
<v Speaker 2>Yes, if Hecketslolus has water, and if that water is accessible,

500
00:23:55.599 --> 00:23:59.160
<v Speaker 2>then technically, under the current Coast Bar guidelines the Committee

501
00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:02.240
<v Speaker 2>on Space Research, it becomes a highly restricted zone.

502
00:24:02.279 --> 00:24:05.559
<v Speaker 3>So the exact moment we definitively confirm the resource exists,

503
00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:08.319
<v Speaker 3>we might legally ban ourselves from ever using it.

504
00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:11.720
<v Speaker 2>That is the dilemma. It is the ultimate catch twenty two,

505
00:24:11.960 --> 00:24:15.200
<v Speaker 2>the ultimate irony of space exploration. We are spending billions

506
00:24:15.240 --> 00:24:17.480
<v Speaker 2>of dollars searching desperately for the one thing we need

507
00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:20.839
<v Speaker 2>to survive. But because that thing water is also the

508
00:24:20.920 --> 00:24:25.160
<v Speaker 2>absolute prerequisite for life finding, it triggers the exact international

509
00:24:25.200 --> 00:24:27.000
<v Speaker 2>protocols designed to protect life.

510
00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:29.000
<v Speaker 3>We need the water to stay alive, but if we

511
00:24:29.079 --> 00:24:31.319
<v Speaker 3>touch the water, we might be committing a massive crime

512
00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:32.599
<v Speaker 3>against science.

513
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:36.240
<v Speaker 2>Or a crime against potential alien biology. It raises a

514
00:24:36.319 --> 00:24:39.599
<v Speaker 2>genuinely massive ethical question. Do we have the right to

515
00:24:39.640 --> 00:24:43.240
<v Speaker 2>dig up and exploit these resources to fuel our rockets.

516
00:24:43.599 --> 00:24:45.519
<v Speaker 2>If there is even a one percent chance that there

517
00:24:45.559 --> 00:24:48.720
<v Speaker 2>is dormant microbial life waiting inside that ice.

518
00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:51.519
<v Speaker 3>It's not just an engineering or science problem anymore. It's

519
00:24:51.559 --> 00:24:53.519
<v Speaker 3>a fundamental philosophy problem.

520
00:24:53.640 --> 00:24:56.759
<v Speaker 2>It is, and it's one we are absolutely going to

521
00:24:56.839 --> 00:24:59.960
<v Speaker 2>have to solve before the first starship lands with human

522
00:25:00.279 --> 00:25:00.720
<v Speaker 2>on board.

523
00:25:00.839 --> 00:25:02.759
<v Speaker 3>So how do we resolve this standoff? How do we

524
00:25:02.799 --> 00:25:05.000
<v Speaker 3>find out if the ice is really there without triggering

525
00:25:05.039 --> 00:25:08.960
<v Speaker 3>a total legal lockdown or accidentally contaminating the site.

526
00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:12.359
<v Speaker 2>Well, the article points out a harsh reality. We can't

527
00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:15.319
<v Speaker 2>do it from orbit anymore. We have hit the absolute

528
00:25:15.400 --> 00:25:17.319
<v Speaker 2>limit of what we can see from two hundred miles

529
00:25:17.400 --> 00:25:19.680
<v Speaker 2>up with our current satellite boots on the ground or

530
00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:23.519
<v Speaker 2>robot treads. We need a dedicated mission to Hecatees Thollus,

531
00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:25.880
<v Speaker 2>not just to look at it from above, but to

532
00:25:25.960 --> 00:25:28.119
<v Speaker 2>actually touch it, to drill down.

533
00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:31.000
<v Speaker 3>There are some interesting proposals for this right There.

534
00:25:30.839 --> 00:25:35.160
<v Speaker 2>Are concepts being developed. There is the idea of fly Ridar,

535
00:25:35.519 --> 00:25:38.480
<v Speaker 2>which is essentially a drone or an airplane that would

536
00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:40.359
<v Speaker 2>fly directly in the Martian atmosphere.

537
00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:42.720
<v Speaker 3>Oh, that solves the geometry problem exactly.

538
00:25:43.240 --> 00:25:45.960
<v Speaker 2>If you are flying a drone just one thousand feet

539
00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:49.799
<v Speaker 2>off the ground, you can fly alongside the volcano. You

540
00:25:49.799 --> 00:25:52.319
<v Speaker 2>can look directly at the slope, not just down on

541
00:25:52.359 --> 00:25:55.279
<v Speaker 2>top of it. You can get that speculatar reflection. You

542
00:25:55.319 --> 00:25:58.359
<v Speaker 2>can definitively confirm the ice without ever having to touch

543
00:25:58.400 --> 00:25:58.799
<v Speaker 2>the ground.

544
00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:00.839
<v Speaker 3>But eventually someone is going to I want to actually.

545
00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:03.640
<v Speaker 2>Drill eventually, yes, and that will be the moment of

546
00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:05.279
<v Speaker 2>truth for humanity on Mars.

547
00:26:05.400 --> 00:26:07.240
<v Speaker 3>You know, when we started this discussion, I really thought

548
00:26:07.240 --> 00:26:09.920
<v Speaker 3>we were just talking about some weirdly shaped rocks. But

549
00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:13.240
<v Speaker 3>this connects absolutely everything. It connects the history of whaling

550
00:26:13.279 --> 00:26:16.559
<v Speaker 3>and volcanoes in Antarctica to the ancient volcanoes of Mars.

551
00:26:17.000 --> 00:26:20.200
<v Speaker 3>It connects the complex physics of radar scattering to the

552
00:26:20.240 --> 00:26:22.880
<v Speaker 3>international ethics of biological contamination.

553
00:26:23.079 --> 00:26:26.519
<v Speaker 2>That is the beauty of comparative planetology. You pull on

554
00:26:26.519 --> 00:26:30.039
<v Speaker 2>one weird little thread, a doughnut shaped island in the

555
00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:34.960
<v Speaker 2>South Shetland chain, and it completely unravels a mystery on

556
00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:38.799
<v Speaker 2>a planet one hundred and forty million miles away.

557
00:26:38.839 --> 00:26:41.759
<v Speaker 3>It really makes you look at Mars completely differently.

558
00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:45.240
<v Speaker 2>It does. And I want to leave you our listeners

559
00:26:45.319 --> 00:26:47.839
<v Speaker 2>with that exact thought. We tend to think of Mars

560
00:26:47.880 --> 00:26:51.680
<v Speaker 2>as a fossil, a dead thing, just the static red

561
00:26:51.720 --> 00:26:54.720
<v Speaker 2>marble spinning in the dark. But if to Pablo and

562
00:26:54.759 --> 00:26:57.359
<v Speaker 2>his team are right, Mars is much more dynamic than

563
00:26:57.359 --> 00:26:59.960
<v Speaker 2>we ever gave it credit for. It is a world

564
00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:03.279
<v Speaker 2>that is actively holding onto its past. It is wrapping

565
00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:06.440
<v Speaker 2>its precious water in heavy blankets of ash. It is

566
00:27:06.519 --> 00:27:10.599
<v Speaker 2>hiding its greatest treasures in geological time capsules, just waiting

567
00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:13.680
<v Speaker 2>for someone clever enough and careful enough to actually find them.

568
00:27:13.720 --> 00:27:16.880
<v Speaker 3>And it challenges us. It demands that we be better explorers.

569
00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:19.799
<v Speaker 3>We can't just be tourists looking at the scenery from orbit.

570
00:27:20.119 --> 00:27:22.680
<v Speaker 3>We have to be detectives, and more importantly, we have

571
00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:23.519
<v Speaker 3>to be stewards.

572
00:27:23.839 --> 00:27:25.680
<v Speaker 2>As we plan to become a species that lives on

573
00:27:25.720 --> 00:27:28.559
<v Speaker 2>two worlds, we have to grapple with a heavy fact

574
00:27:28.599 --> 00:27:30.839
<v Speaker 2>that the second world isn't just a blank canvas for

575
00:27:30.920 --> 00:27:33.279
<v Speaker 2>us to paint our bases on. It has its own

576
00:27:33.319 --> 00:27:37.880
<v Speaker 2>deep history, its own complex geology, and maybe just maybe

577
00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:39.240
<v Speaker 2>its own life.

578
00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:41.720
<v Speaker 3>And perhaps thanks to a fiery little island called deception,

579
00:27:42.079 --> 00:27:44.880
<v Speaker 3>we are one step closer to finally understanding it.

580
00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:47.400
<v Speaker 2>That is a wrap for this deep dive. I highly

581
00:27:47.400 --> 00:27:49.880
<v Speaker 2>recommend you go search for Deception Island and look at

582
00:27:49.880 --> 00:27:52.680
<v Speaker 2>the photos. It is hauntingly beautiful. And then go look

583
00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:56.079
<v Speaker 2>at the orbital images of Hekkati's Tholus. Once you see

584
00:27:56.079 --> 00:27:59.359
<v Speaker 2>the resemblance between the two, you really cannot unsee it.

585
00:27:59.359 --> 00:27:59.960
<v Speaker 3>It's uncamp.

586
00:28:00.279 --> 00:28:03.839
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for listening, thanks for being curious, and as always,

587
00:28:03.960 --> 00:29:15.680
<v Speaker 2>keep looking up. SA
