Speaker 1: Are you ready to be uncomfortable? Lust is an uncomfortable
topic and it's something that we should cover, particularly as
godly people. Doctor Jared Moore joins me. He will do
this with the help of Bullwart Capital Management and of
course God Almighty.
Speaker 2: The Todd Herman Show is one hundred percent disapproved by
big pharma technocrats in tyrans everywhere from the high Mountains
of Free America. Here's the Emerald City exile Todd Herman.
Speaker 1: Today is the day the Lord has made, and these
are the times through which God has decided we shall live.
Why would a guy give his career over a godly
man to writing about lust? Doctor Jared Moore joins us.
And doctor Moore is a theologian.
Speaker 3: He's been a.
Speaker 1: Pastor three books, in two of them on the topic
of lust. Doctor Moore, welcome, good devier.
Speaker 4: Hi Todd, thank you for having me. It's good to
be We all.
Speaker 3: Good to be with you.
Speaker 1: From all across the country in Tennessee, we're out here
in the high Mountains of Free America in North Idaho.
And I guess we're joined together as the Body Christ.
Speaker 3: And that's what matters.
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 3: So, why you know your your.
Speaker 1: First book is about pop culture parenting, your your second two,
and we'll talk about both of them.
Speaker 3: The latest is of workbook.
Speaker 1: It's a it's a it's a ministry book on how
to get out of lust.
Speaker 3: But why choose that topic?
Speaker 4: Yeah, So back when I was writing my dissertation at Seminary,
you know, a decade ago, you know, I had I
was trying to write on common Grace and the professors
wouldn't approve it. And so after getting rejected for about
a year, I had a friend who was telling telling
me to listen to this guy named Wesley Hill. And
Wesley was arguing for a tip of gay Christianity, and
and so I went and listened to him, and I
was like, there's no way this is right. So I
wanted to write a book after Seminary, but I went
ahead and put the outline together, send it to my professor,
and so I wrote a book on concupiscence.
Speaker 3: That's the word slow down, that's HD word.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a just lustful desire. That word in church
church history, like the lust of the flesh, that's that's
the word they used. And and so the lust of
the flesh is actually a lay version of my dissertation
and and so uh I saw second book.
Speaker 1: I believe the lust of the flesh first one culture parting.
So that's a lay version of teaching me that word again, concupiskod.
Speaker 4: So how do I say that, concupiscence?
Speaker 3: Come concupiscence.
Speaker 1: I'm going to practice that and see it around friends,
just to impress them.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean, if you really like church history, man,
it's all over the place that word is, and it's
just it's just lust, just the lust of the flesh.
And so I wrote that theologically to abut the gay
Christian movement and then luss just to help, you know,
brothers and sisters because of the porn epidemic, and basically everyone,
most Christian justifying less in their hearts by using language
like you know, it's only seeing if I act on it,
or you know. I had a when I was a teenager.
I had a supervisor tell me he can look at
the menu as long as he don't order.
Speaker 3: And that was a professor in.
Speaker 4: No, no, no, no, it was a it was a I
worked at the feed meal when I was a teenager, okay,
and my supervisor.
Speaker 1: Told me that I was so yeah, and and so
you did you really choose it for kind of tactical reasons.
Your other dissertation wasn't getting accepted, or did you feel
a burden Because I feel a burden in terms of
the so called gay gospel, because my belief is that
the churches, the church, I think it's the Evangelical Church,
made a horrible error in making same sex activity the
special abomination. And you know, there's a lot of things
that Bible calls abomination. But I think what we did
is we looked at ourselves. We allowed same sex attracted
people to see our churches and say, okay, so they're
adulterers in there. There are people who commit mental and
in physical adultery. There's there's men using porn, there's people
who cheat in business, there's liars, but we're the ones
not allowed. So I feel a burden for that because
I want them to come back to the church, because
it's only through the blood of Christ that they can
come out of the same sex activity and come out
of that trap and experience the saving grace but also
the abiding life.
Speaker 3: So was it did you.
Speaker 1: Feel personally burdened on that topic or was it quote
just the dissertation.
Speaker 4: It was a burden for the I was pastoring is
a burden for the church. You know, there there are
Christians like Wesley Hugh where they they argue for this
gay celibacy. They adopt the Freudian sexual orientation language that
they're gay, they' always be gay, and so they want
to be a gay Christian. And what I argue from
the scriptures is that there are no gay Christians. There
are only heterosexuals, male and females, and all male and
females battle sin, battle in dwelling sin. And what you're
talking about not making homosexuality a special sin. The church
has done that the opposite way as well today, where
they treat it like it's the only sin you can't
repent from, it's the only sin you can't mortify. And
so what we're seeing, what I'm seeing is a lot
of Christians who've been duped by that. And if they
have those same sex desires, they think they can't get married,
they think they can't have children, and it's just unbiblical.
And so I'm trying to help folks, and I've actually
had you know, people who've read my book The Lust
of the Flesh. One man is married to a woman.
Now he lived as a trans I think he was.
He was a man claiming to be a girl during
his teenage years, said he was a homosexual and read
my book repented. Well, he repented first and then read
my book. And at the end of my book, I say,
find the godless opposite sex Christian you can and pursue
her for marriage. And that's what he did. And he's
married now. And another guy was listening to Rosari Butterfield.
She recommended my book. He'd lived as a homosexual for
ten years, and he went and read my book. And
now he's getting married to a woman. He invited me
to his wedding. It's dismay And so the Lord is
freeing people. You know, through throughout history, what did Christians
do who had the same sex desire? They repented, They
found the godliest opposite sex Christian they could, They got married,
raised godly children, had godly grandchildren, singing hymns when they
died around them. You know, like, why today are we
telling folks that, you know, they can't repent, that Jesus
can walk out of the tomb, but he can't you know,
change your sexual desires.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and of course there are you know a number
of cases and I've talked to people on this program
who themselves Christ has brought through that that they're no
longer same sex attracted, and then they've trend this to
a ministry to help other people come out of that prison.
Now I will tell you, though, doctor Mary, there are
people I belong to a church, real life ministries, and
God has used the church to plan a lot of
churches around the country. We've got four locations up here,
seventeen maybe even twenty thousand members, and it's a very
biblically strict church, and real life means something. You know,
our pastors they confessed the mistakes they've made in life.
I can say that there are people in the church leadership.
I wouldn't say this if my pastor hadn't said it
on the show who to this day are same sex
attracted and they've they've wanted it, they want it gone,
they've prayed for it to go away, and they're single,
and they are celibates, and they are absolutely happily celibate,
and they have accountability partners on that and it has
just been something that God at this point has not
lifted from them. I think of the apostle Paul and
we are told it was I guess his eyesight, this
thorn he wanted to remove, and the Lord said, no,
my grace alone is sufficient. Do you think that God
always rescues people from that?
Speaker 4: I think that that's what we should believe. Like I'll
never say, oh, gone, I'm always going to be this way,
or I'm always about any sin in my heart because
part of the Christian life, you know, Paul says that
he's aimed at Christ. He says he's aimed at perfection.
And someone who says, well, I'm always going to be
this way there you can't possibly possibly be aimed at
Jesus in your sanctification, and so you have to aim
at Christ and pursue the goal is their goal should
be not to be same sex attracted. And that's the
thing the language of They need to view same sex
attraction not as this ontological like who they are exactly.
They need to view it as individual sinful impulses. It's
not who they are. The Bible says in Genesis too,
they are male or female and that's all there is.
And so they're by definition heterosexual, like according to biology,
Like if a trans person was saved, we would say
if you're born man. Now that you're repenting, you have
to live as a man, right. Well, it is effeminate
for a man to desire a man the way that
Eve desired Adam. And so if we would tell someone
who has trans desires that they have to repent of those,
we must tell someone who has homosexual desire that they
have to repent of those. And part of the repentance,
like part of the repentance is if you don't have
the gift of singleness. You know, Paul talked about the
gift of singleness, But the gift of singleness is for
the Lord. It has nothing to do with your sexual desires.
Speaker 3: Yep, yep.
Speaker 4: And so if someone is saying I'm celibate because of
these same sex attractions, they need to repent and pursue
an opposite sex Christian for marriage. That's part of their
sanctification because you start living what God designed you to
do and be, and that helps to sanctify you. You know,
not to be crass, but the marriage bed can help
sanctify you.
Speaker 1: So I want to talk about the marriage bed because
this being something up I think is interesting because they
want to make sure that we're bringing terms from the
live chat, rare Verse says, the born this way thing
is being called into question given the so called trans issue.
And I agree it is being called into question by
a lot, and for more reasons than that. I say
so called trans because I don't believe anyone's born on
the wrong body. And I just I'm a guy, doctor Moore.
I just refuse to speak the language of the enemy.
So you'll never hear me say trans is if it's
a real thing. As we're talking to doctor Moore here,
remember that's you know, the big business of porn.
Speaker 3: That's it.
Speaker 1: It's huge business and it's going to get more big
because of AI. Now part of this, you could look
at this as a blessing, so young women aren't going
to be able to go sell their bodies is easily
online anymore. But then again, AI porn, you can't touch it,
and it could lead to a whole bunch of women
now having to go out and actually allow men to
touch them. It's one of the big changes is coming
on our economy. We just said, Amazon lay a bunch
of people off another what sixteen thousand human beings, and
this is from white collar stuff in Seattle. AI is
attacking all sectors of economy from people's souls and bodies
to jobs. And don't believe the hype that AI is
not coming for jobs like automate cannicks. You better believe
they're going to build robots in this front. So you
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Speaker 3: That's when they shine. So go get into this.
Speaker 1: Free live webinar. There's no obligation, You're just going to
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Speaker 3: Six, dash deerial five.
Speaker 1: So let's get to an agreement on terms. Let's move
beyond same sex attraction. By the way, I'm very glad
you agree on this identity front. I think one of
the biggest tricks the devil has pulled is to have
people say I am gay, just as I think it's
a trick to have people say I am black, primary
very thin identity versus I'm creative by God in his
image of love by him. And that's a very strong
way to have an identity. It's a strong, unbreakable identity.
So on the topic of lust general, outside of same
sex attraction, what is lust?
Speaker 4: So lust would be sexual attraction outside of the marriage.
Speaker 3: Bed can can lust in a marriage.
Speaker 4: Not towards your spouse?
Speaker 3: Now, okay, let me press on this and let me
just test this a little bit.
Speaker 1: So there are men who become porn addicted, and and
there are cases where men have become so porn addicted
that they insist their wives do things the wife does
not want to do, getting on video, uh, doing things
they've seen in porn. Being choked to be blunt's a
big thing in porn. You don't think a man can
be attached to or harassed by a demon of lust
within a marital union.
Speaker 4: I would say that that would be a perversion of
So if you if lust is sexual traction towards your
you know it's not towards your spouse, but towards someone else.
You're meant to be sexually attracted to your spouse, But
those are perversions of the marriage bed. So where you're
degrading the other individual, you're you're you're degrading your spouse.
You know what what those people need to do, Those
men and those women need to starve themselves from the
sexual culture. You know, our culture is obsessed with it.
And if you starve yourself for three months, six months,
you know your wife's ankles will turn you on, you know,
like you won't have to. I'm saying like it's what
you know or and by that I just mean I'm
thinking like an amish person who's covered complete and you know,
like it's not going to take much. The reason why
it takes so much is because you've ruined your brain
and you have to essentially have it rewired by starving yourself.
You know, there are folks who are so addicted to
porn they can't even be aroused by their spouse unless
they do those crazy things that you're mentioning.
Speaker 1: Right, And so you don't think that that's and you
studied this, I've not you draw a delineation between lust
and that that it's a perversion of the marriage badge.
But you are speaking then in the language of if
you're degrading your spouse, causing your spouse, pressuring your spouse
to do things he or she doesn't want to do,
then it's a perversion or degradation of the marriage bad
But you don't think it's driven by lust, that lust
only happens outside of.
Speaker 4: Marge, Well, just defining the terms. You know, lust is
in the context of sexual morality, like sexual lust, like
sexual sexually immoral things that would be a perversion of
the marriage bed So it's still I mean, you could
you could. It's still broadly lust, it's the lust of
the flesh, but as far as calling it sexual lust,
like the way the Bible speaks about sexual lust, yes,
it doesn't talk about that within marriage. Yeah, like like,
so sexual morality is referring to outside the marriage bed.
But this, this is a perversion of that. It's still sin, right,
It's still sin from root to fruit. I wouldn't call
it sexual lust. You could call it broadly lust, the
lust of the flesh. But uh A good question.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah no, And I think it matters because the
sanctification of the mary bad allowing it to continue to
be sanctified. You know, we're individuals, but we're one flush
as well that God clearly gave us sex as a
gift in a marital union, and clearly wants it to
be pleasurable, and clearly wants it to be bonding.
Speaker 3: And this is from the live stream.
Speaker 1: By the way, guys, if you're a Subsack subscriber, the
Todd Hermerson subsec dot comby can pop into things like this,
Saint wants your sexuality to be your whole identity. Someone
said true, and jan Janet Trito wrote back and said,
and to destroy the family. D Craigs Todd. What you're
getting at is the person requiring these acts is still
thinking about what they saw someone else doing lust and
that's right, that's that person. I would think if a
man has become so addicted to porn that he's playing
a porn loop in his mind and then wanting.
Speaker 3: His wife to play out the role of the.
Speaker 1: Woman he saw committing prostitution, which is what you know,
the production of pornography is some of it. Sometimes it's
a a girl or woman having been trafficked and assaulted,
and he wants that experience.
Speaker 3: To me, I think that comes from to me is demonic. Uh.
Speaker 1: And because here's a spooky thing, like I think demons
watch that stuff, but they go, yeah, I do that,
you know, do more of that anything they can to
drive us between us and God. Because I would think
that God, if you're a Christian marriage, you're married to
a Christian woman and you're having your wife act out
something you saw in a vile porn reel, I have
to believe God is saying that, Hey, don't do that
to my daughter. Hey, what are you doing right? Don't
don't do that to my daughter. It can't lead to
good fruits.
Speaker 3: In a marriage.
Speaker 4: No, it can't lead to anything good. Like it's you know,
you again, you need to starve yourself to where your
affection is only for your wife and not for particular
sexual acts that are degrading and wicked. Yeah, you know,
consent has been so exalted too, even if the wife
is into it. And what's what's sad? When I was
writing my dissertation, the greatest you know, perverse desire wasn't
LGBT stuff. It was BDSM. It was like thirty percent
of women desired it in the population. It was insane
when I was reading that, the amount of women who
desired it and then the amount of men who desired it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's but it veers into violence pretty quick.
Speaker 3: I mean it is violent.
Speaker 4: What it is that the evil one perverts God's design
And so if wives are supposed to submit to their husbands,
the perversion of that would be pleasure from pain right
where a domineering thing. And then for men, if men
are supposed to lead their wives, the perversion of that
would be to dominate their wives, you know, like the
evil And so it makes sense that in a wicked
world that that would be a yeah, because the devil
quists God's word is true.
Speaker 3: To distract, depress.
Speaker 1: Yes, he can't create anything, he can't experts and joy,
so he he you know, the Lord Jesus would take
an existing thing water and turn it into wine or
you know, little bits of fish and bread and magnify
it and multiple clearly he can create as well.
Speaker 3: Satan can't do that. Satan can't even do the water
and the wine thing.
Speaker 1: So he distorts and he creates these disortions and depressions
and distractions. So you're now The third book you've written
as a PhD in Systematic theology from the Southern Baptist
Theological Seminary is called Thirty three Days to Freedom from Lust,
a hope filled devotional heart, and I looked at the
heart of a link. There's audiobooks, et cetera. So your
contention is in thirty three days you can help a
man and I guess women too, who are right now
held in the captive captitive captivity of lust.
Speaker 3: Get out of that. Yes, okay, absolutely, how does that work?
Speaker 4: So if you have a lust problem you have, or
a porn problem or in you know Barnus, you know poled,
faithful Christians, you know acting Christians. In twenty twenty four,
seventy five percent of men are looking at porn and
forty percent of women Christians according to that pole. And
so if you have a porn problem, you have a
love for God problem. And so this the goal of
this is to cultivate love for God, because the more
you love Him, the more you hate sin. It's very
difficult to do something you truly hate, right, and so
the thirty three days is to thank God's thoughts after him.
I'm trying to show the beauty of God. The book
starts with magnifying who God is and explaining who he
is and just how amazing he is. And then it
goes from God down to us and the work of
Jesus Christ that you know, God becoming man to save
us is just that beauty. The beauty of that should
draw us from the ugliness of us, you know. One
of the Puritans argued that it's called the it's a
famous sermon. He called it the expulsive power of a
new affection. And so if you're filled with love for God,
it expels the sin from your heart, and so everything
flows out of worship. Right like the Bible starts within
the beginning God, the first command and the Ten Commandments.
Worship God only the two great commands. Love God with
all your heart's soul in mind. And then the inverse
of that is Romans one, worship the creature, turn your
sexuality upside down, then dive into all kinds of sin,
right like, But if you're aimed at God and worshiping
him and worshiping Him with your heart, it changes you,
right And so that's what I'm seeking to cultivate in
this study. And you know, scientists argued, and I quoted
at the beginning, but they argue that you've probably heard
it takes twenty one days to develop a new habit.
That was the least amount of time. Yeah, and some
people it takes two hundred and some days. Sixty six
was kind of the median of that. And so I
did thirty three and then I do catechism questions and
answers at the end that folks can memorize thirty three
days will be enough for some people.
Speaker 3: Okay, good.
Speaker 1: And you know, since I work with young men, it
wouldn't surprise you, because you've been a youth minister and
a youth pastor, it wouldn't surprise you that the lust
is a topic on their minds. They may not think
of it as lust, They definitely are attacked by porn
and some of them are brave enough to come and
admit that in our group, you know, and to confess
it to another, confess to one another daily.
Speaker 3: So it begins, I guess for us.
Speaker 1: We tell them to have accountability partners to if that
thought enters your mind, have some scripture available immediately regarding
no one in the flesh, and we have, you know,
they're best scriptures that.
Speaker 3: Help them with that.
Speaker 1: But you're saying that we could take an eighteen year
olds or a fifty year olds or a thirty year
old and put them down in front of this book,
and if they faithfully go through this, you believe they
can become utterly free from that.
Speaker 3: And have you seen this happen?
Speaker 4: Yes, yes I have. It's so because of the flesh.
We're sinners in this life, but the flesh moves a
particular direction because we find it tempting. Yeah, And so
the goal is to get to where you're no longer
tempted by lust or porn, to where it repulses you
like other things repulse you. Yeah, right, Like you're in
the power of the Holy Spirit. You're aimed at God,
living for him, seeking to think his thoughts after him,
and you're getting these truths in your bones, I mean
to where it's your default, right to where that's what
you do. You wake up in the morning instead of
thinking about porn. You wake up thinking about God. Before
you go to bed at night, you're thinking of God
rather than thinking about porn. Right, Like, you're you're just
aimed at Him and filled with Him and submitting to
the spirit, and you are sanctified out of that. You're
in the power of the Holy Spirit, putting that sin
to death. Now, the flesh on this side of glory
always moves. You're never gonna fully cease from the lust
to the flesh, right, But it doesn't have to move
the same direction for your whole life. And whenever it
moves a different direction, you'll work it, you know, putting
that to death too, in the power of the Holy Spirit.
Like and you'll that's what this Christian life is, you know.
Speaker 1: Obviously, you know, as we're talking with doctor Moore here,
obviously we're talking about spiritual warfare, right, and spiritual warfare
bears some things in common with physical warfare. You know,
if your enemy is doing a good job and they're
going to come up and ambush you, they don't wave
out say hey, we're over here. Is you know I'm
pretty sure. I check it with my friends like Michael Rourke,
or I check with my friends Cody, or I checked
with with Tim Krookshank, founder and CEO of Bone Frog Coffee.
The Taliban didn't regularly do that, isis didn't regularly do that.
They hid, they stuck up, and then they came for
the attack. The enemy is the same way. My friend
Tim Krukshank fought a spiritual battle. Yes, he was in
war for US as a seal, Yes, three deployments on
our behalf in the Middle East, but he also spot
a spiritually fought a spiritual war against people who wanted
to have him let his wife die. See, Tim was
a medic with the Teams. He devoted fifteen years of
his life to extending his wife, Liz's life. He did
that because of his training and because he refused to
let her die because she didn't want to. And meanwhile
people in the world were saying, you're being selfish. That's
a spiritual battle. And I will tell you this as
a former Navy seal, that could have become a physical battle.
And the doctor who said that to Tim's face would
have lost, but Tim serves God, so that guy still
walks around Every bag of bone Frog says God Country
team on it. And I wanted to talk about sisterhood
since we're talking about lust. We're talking with doctor Moore
about this. That bag, Sisterhood of Coffee is from the
top one half of percent of coffee in the world.
Tim spent the money on it because that bag honors
women whose husbands have lost their lives or serve and
specifically his wife, Liz, who passed a few years ago.
You'll read Liz's story. And by the way, if that
doesn't touch your heart, go get checked. You can go
buy Sisterhood at Bonefrog Coffee dot com slash todd. Here's
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purchase fifteen percent off subscription coffee Bonefrog Coffee dot com
slash todd. We talk a lot with the young men
about you know, and my wife has given me some
great stuff on c s. Lewis from this and you know,
she and I we have a tradition of reading the
Bible before we go to sleep and waking and thanking
the Lord for our marriage bed and you know, thirty
years together twenty two of marriage. They'll do that to you.
And everybody has seasons, you know, everybody has seasons. And
when I have young men who are really struggling with
this stuff and they come and they talk about this stuff,
one of the things we steer them towards is confessing
to their parents. And you know what, when a young
man goes to his mom and says, Mom, I'm struggling
with porn usage, and a mom comes alongside his son
or her son, because the father's not in the picture.
In all too many cases, father's not in the picture,
she can even.
Speaker 3: Help with this, and.
Speaker 1: To not recoil and run away and oh my gosh,
I can't believe you're doing that sickness. What gets me
down a little bit and concerned, and I'm not cynical
about it is on the other hand, I've had interactions
with young men whose fathers have said to them, well,
it's okay to look porn as long as you're not
doing that.
Speaker 3: To other people. Oh my gosh, And it's okay to
do that.
Speaker 1: If if you know you're not going to go out
and hurt girls, and it's okay to do that. And
there's nothing that wrong with that, but don't look at
real extreme stuff. I've had responses like that.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: And we're in a situation, I think right now with
the church particularly I speak about Evangelical Church because I
don't attend Catholic church. I don't know that the church
has done enough to talk to everybody about lust. And
I'm saying in the general sessions with everybody, and when
we talk about it in youth group, doctor Moore, Man,
we have the best discussions. Afterwards, we have more kids
come to Christ after the words, we have more kids.
And I hear this from the female leads too. The
girls want to dive into this because they feel deceived.
But do you agree with me that the Evangelical church
as a whole has not really go on to attack
this problem?
Speaker 4: Absolutely, and and part of it was that that was
the one subject they didn't talk about. You know, my
my parents were godly folks, but they never talked to
me about the birds and the bees at all. I
had to figure it out. I learned a lot of
crazy stuff on the school bus. Yeah. And I've talked
with other guys who grew up the same age as me.
You know, I'm in I'm almost forty five, and it
was something about that generation didn't talk about it, and
maybe maybe their parents didn't talk about it because they
all grew up on farms and it was kind of
common sense.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, well it was.
Speaker 1: And then there was also the mid seventies where so
many married couples had the joy of sex books hanging around.
And I can tell you I saw that in my household,
and I I and you know, for a fourteen year
old boy to go find something like that, ay, oh
my gosh, why is this here? And then be of
course that leads the mind into these lustly thoughts. But
in this era we also have this challenge I think
where the dads that are saying that are saying that
because they're doing it, yes, right, and they know they
don't have the moral authority to say no, son, you
can't do that. So what do you think are the
biggest lies that boys are told about sex in the
culture and girls are told about sex in the culture.
And before you answer that, let me point out on
the livestream couple comments here, what is the significance of
thirty three days? And I think doctor Morrer, you said
that you were taking a median between the amount of
time it takes to create a new habits one hundred
and twenty days. Sixty six was a mark and then
there's a low mark and you kind of put that
in the middle.
Speaker 3: Is that right?
Speaker 1: Because someone else said Brandon Smith said, possibly correlates to
the Age of Christ at the Cross thirty three. But
it's actually you're trying to cut down the middle of
where you believe people can actually let the Lord rescue
them from this in thirty three days.
Speaker 3: Correct, Yes, yeah, that's.
Speaker 1: Right, right, So thank you for being in Livesham asking questions,
making the comments. So what do you think of the
big lies that young men are told about sex in
the culture and young women are told.
Speaker 4: So they're they're both told that, well, young men especially
that it's just part of being a man. Lust is
part of being a man.
Speaker 3: You know, Desiring people are told that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, like desiring beautiful women. You know, I had
a had a pastor ask me one time. You know,
if a fella is driving near the beach so that
he can enjoy God's beauty and he's talking about the women,
the women in bikinis on the beach, and you know,
he's just enjoying God's beauty. Is what he said. How
do you respond to that? And I'm like, no, he's lusting.
He's a married he's a married man. If his daughter
was on the beach in a bikini, he wouldn't be
driving by like he is. He is doing that so
he can lust in his heart and the beauty that
you're supposed to enjoy. First off, beauty can only be
defined by God's design. That's what's beautiful. And did God
design you to look at women you're not married, to
look at their bodies sexually? No, like Adam and Eve
the whole point, Like, you look at the beautiful history
of Adam and Eve, and God literally took a peace
of the man. So that's who he's supposed to be
attracted to, right, like what came from him, and then
it's joined back together as one flesh with him, right.
And then the girls are being taught that they need
to be like the men. And so I honestly think
that that's why I think feminism is the reason why
more and more girls are looking at porn. They're becoming
more and more masculine traits, Like it's this emphasis upon
you know, you you have to be like the boys,
and the boys are looking at porn, and then they're talking
about it at school. And then it's also so they
can learn how to get a guy. They're learning from,
you know, pornography rather than from the scriptures. And so
it's just said, I think those are the two big
lives though, that the boys will always lust and then
it's just part of being a man. And then the girls,
you know, need to be like the boys, and also
that they need to learn how to attract the boys
by watching porn.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I might add to that that there's also
this this message it's sent to young women that you
don't need men, and you certainly don't need marriage because
you don't need some man lording over you, because of
course a Christian marriage that the man is your boss
and can tell you exactly what to do when you
go mow the lawn, I'm going to watch the super Bowl,
stuff like that, which is not of course, Christian marriage
come under a liftop were to do that with each other.
And the man leads a household so long as a
house so spiritually, so long as he is abiding with
Christ right, So that's an interlocking thing. I think that's
a huge lie that that young women are told therefore,
why not go out and swipe rights, go have this
sexual thing, And that's that's your quote intimacy, after all,
that's what boys want. And then that creates, I think,
a hardness of heart and disappointments, and yeah, I think
that can drive people feminist amount. All boys wanted sex,
and because there are young girls who confuse a boy
having lust for her with a boy liking her or
respecting her or being interested in her. And that's a
major lie and a major problem with young men. The
big lie I see, at least in our youth group
is that there are there are just these small little
things you can do. And I was saying, my wife
and I talked about C. S. Lewis, there's no small sin.
Sins compounds and Jared, I've had discussions with young men.
They're they're going to stay away from girls. They've realized that. Okay,
well but I'm just going to date this one. Okay,
so you're gonna date this one, and what are the rules?
And lo and behold, it's not three months later that
I get a young man coming back to me saying,
I have to confess something.
Speaker 3: Let me guess you and your girlfriend had sex.
Speaker 1: How'd you know because you had a problem and you
chose not to listen to the Holy Spirit, and you
chose not to listen to wise counsel.
Speaker 3: So I think the biggest lie.
Speaker 1: Is the most subtle one, and that is that you
got it all handled right without God, you got it
all handled. And that's a huge problematic lie for everybody.
I think that's the subtle one that Satan tells.
Speaker 4: I think one other one is we try to we
try to get take our responsibility away from having to
exercise the fruit of the spirit. So we'll say I
prayed for God to take it away, and he hasn't,
and so we're kind of punting that responsibility. You know,
God sometimes takes lust away or drunkenness away over not right,
But in most cases it seems just anecdotally right that
he gives us the Holy Spirit and enables us to
mortify those particular sinful desires. But but that's hard work.
It's hard, like it's discipline, it's duty, it's doing things
whenever you don't feel like it, getting up and reading
the word when you don't feel like it, getting you
know what I'm saying, Like, it's you have to be disciplined,
and so we we try to say, well, it's it's
God's fault for not taking it away type thing, like,
when that's that's not the case at all.
Speaker 1: Well, I'll get guys sometimes saying, Okay, Todd, good for you.
You've got a beautiful wife. I'm like, I do you
know you've got a wife who loves you. I do,
You've got a wife who's been through a lot with you,
And amen she has. I could be kind of a
load sometimes and believe it a occasionally a jackass. Pardon
my language, because you know, and yes, I am unbelievably
blessed in that way across thirty years, all my risky
business schemes, all these things, and men will say, but
you have that and I don't.
Speaker 3: And because I will.
Speaker 1: Often in the show you know wanted me to go
home and be with my wife, I will say on
the show, I'm going to go home be with my
beloved family and beloved wife. And I've had men right
to me and say, you know, when you say that,
it sounds really arrogant because I don't have that in
my life, and it's really hurtful that you have this
in your life. And so I will get And I
get this all the time, Jared, I will get it.
I know after the show, I know I'll get it.
I have to tune out when you talk about poor usage.
I have to tune out because I don't have a relationship.
I don't have a woman in my life. I'm not
going to have a woman in my life. And you're
telling me I shouldn't enjoy anything sexual. And I'll get
them through anonymous notes, but I'll get them. So how
do you respond to a brother who's hurting that way?
Speaker 4: Well, first off, he's jealous and he needs to repent
of his jealousy of others all right too. And he's
quit making excuses for his sin. That's harming his relationship
with the Lord. You don't have to lust, you know,
he doesn't have to lust. Those are all just excuses
that the devil has told him, that his flesh has
told him, and it's harming your relationship with God and others.
You know, is it worth? Is porn worth harming your
relationship with God? And if you say it is, well,
then you love porn.
Speaker 3: Much more than God?
Speaker 4: Yes, right? And God knows that, yes, And so you've
got to repent. You've got to turn from that. You've
got to cultivate your love for God. You've got to
increase in your love for him and your hatred for porn.
Like you can't do it by making all these excuses
woe is me, poor pitiful me. I mean, you know
you have to turn from that. Those are all just
from the eve want.
Speaker 3: I hurt for people sometimes.
Speaker 1: And this takes us back to the same sex attraction
stuff because they've been told and this is.
Speaker 3: A huge lie.
Speaker 1: Sex equals love, right, and the most important thing in
your life is sex, and sex equals love, and you
can't experience love without sex. And so you get people
who are same sex attracted and what they're picturing so
often in their minds, Jared, is you're telling me I
can't have sex, therefore I can't have love, Therefore I
can't have this very important human connection. And I had
a friend of mine long ago, this was probably twenty
five years ago. Her brother is same sex attracted. And
twenty five years ago we had this conversation and she said,
I just want to know who you are to say
my brother can't be happy. All he's ever wanted is
to be married. I just want to know who do
you think you are? That he can't be happy? And
that long ago, oh place to burden in my heart.
And because also I know people and I think we
all do, who are same sex attracted? Can you speak
words of hope for people who know folks are in
that position, who have come out the other side and
experienced the true happiness that we get in only if
they're biding with Christ.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you have to first tell yourself that you're not gay.
You're not a homosexual. You are a male or female
created to glorify and enjoy God and to do what
He designed you to do. And so you tell yourself, well,
so if I'm not gay, but I'm a male, what
are males designed by God to do? Unless they have
to give to singleness to pursue one female for marriage
and to love her and to cherish her and to
hold her and to care for her and to you know,
in the marriage bed is supposed to be active. Like
that's what I would encourage them to do. Like God's
design is the only thing that can truly make you happy,
Like you're you think that you can have happiness if
God allowed same sex marriage, Like if God was cool
with same sex sexual activity that that would make you happy.
That's not what you were designed for. Like if somebody's
outside eating dirt, like you're not designed for that. And
then they're like, no, Jared, I love eating dirt. I
really want to eat dirt. Like no, no, no, you were
designed yeah, didn't what God provided you to eat? Fruits, vegetables? Steak?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Or maybe take it to like alcohol? You know, okay,
so you have a drink? Were we designed to have
only alcohol?
Speaker 3: Was this? Hard? Bodies are designed.
Speaker 1: And you may think you're happy, and you may think
you're happy when you engage in an active lost and
you may. And then when those things compound the cslist
talks about and you wake up and you have tossed
out your relationship with God, and that would be a
heck of a wake up call on Judgment Day. But
when you toss out your relationship with God, to me,
you toss out your ability to express biblical love, and
you will become an angry person. And we see this,
you know, we know there's something wrong with one of
our boys. When the mood has changed and they're horribly
angry or they're depressed, and man, nine times out of
ten it comes back into one of these circumstances. I
relapsed and I used porn. I made a mistake and
had sex with my girlfriends. I popped off and pushed
a teacher And that's, you know, a different form of
listening to the flesh. But you're telling us that you
know it's possible. I mean, I know God can do anything.
I know that in my heart, mind, soul, and almost rank.
I understand it because He has rescued me multiple times
from things. The hope for this generation, you believe exists
so that we could actually see a decrease in lust
that we could measure and lustful acts. And if the
church got behind this, what would that look like? What
would it look like for the event church to get
behind this, and what would you have them do and
or kind of close out with that, what would you
have the evangelical Church begin to do today?
Speaker 4: Well, we need to associate sexual morality with biblical masculinity
and biblical femininity. And it needs to be something that
repulses us like lust needs to be something that repulses
us like it should you know, I think Jesus could
evangelize at a strip club and most men wouldn't be
able to and that there's a big problem because that
reveals that the man has an adulterous heart that he's
still got to deal with. Ye, And so we have
to get to where we associate it with biblical masculinity.
Right now, what's associated with well, men are just gonna lust,
They're just going to enjoy it. Like, let me be
clear here, I'm not saying it's wrong to notice that
a lady's beautiful, right like, she's pretty, that's a pretty lady.
But I'm saying that to sexually desire her to enjoy
her body in a sexual way in your mind, like
looking at her inappropriately. How you wouldn't want someone to
look at your daughter or your wife right like? That
that's what we have to reject. And so you need
to be looking at women's eyes, and ladies, you should
want men to look at your eyes, and so dress
in a way that encourages them to look up here,
right like, because that's where sanctification takes place. Nothing good
outside of marriage happens below the below the head. So
but what it would look like is men taking responsibility
for lust in their hearts and aiming at Christ so
much so that the goal is to not ever be
tempted by lust again, right, there are certain sins that
repulse Christians, like all Christians are repulsed by certain sins.
I would never do that. Oh that's awful. Oh that's gross.
Oh that's that's how you have to get about lust, right,
Like you have to starve yourself from it as well.
And I think there's I think Christians are leaving freedom
on the table, Todd, I really do, because they're making
excuses for literally wicked evil in their hearts. In One
Timothy five to two, Paul says to Timothy, you are
supposed to view older women as mothers, younger women as
sisters and all purity. That should be the goal. And
you're not sexually attracted to your mom or your sisters,
and so like it's scary because I mean, Todd, I
imagine you see it too, right, Like it seems every
few weeks a new pastor falls, somebody we loved, somebody
we respected.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Satan's always in the march. We hear, we know
he's a roaring line, and he's roaring after the believers.
He's worrying, he's coming after us. If you don't believe
he doesn't care, No, work is going to put into that.
If you're quarm Christian and you're not even saved, that's
convenient for him. Yeah, he's coming for the saints. Super
axiom in the live chats, so true they worship porn.
For a lot of people, porners they're God. They cannot
stop thinking about it, wanting it, thinking they need it.
And then a lot of people in the chat suggesting
screwtape letter is very true. Great great book on that.
There's a link to doctor Moore's books in the show notes.
I encourage you to buy them, particularly if you're in
the ministry, and I encourage you to use these things
to help.
Speaker 3: Young men and young women. And I guess men and
women as a whole get out of jail because we're
called to free the captives.
Speaker 4: Aren't we, Yes, im in I mean there and some
don't even know they're in prison. You until you get
on the other side of it, you don't really like
you think you're happy, yeah, but the truth is you've
never been happy, like if you've been ensnared in sin,
like you don't know what happiness he is, Like God's
design is always what is best for you and what
will bring flourishing, and if you're ensnared in porn, it's
hurting you in ways you don't realize. Like Todd's talking
about how sin compounds, Like you're embracing other sins because
you're dehumanizing yourself as an image bearer. You're using your
body in the way God didn't design yep. And then
you're using other people's bodies in the way God didn't
design that. You can't compartmentalize that to where it's just
sexual immorality. You'll also harm people in other ways, like
because your ultimate issue is you don't view them as
an image bearer, even yourself.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 4: You know, like you're exactly right on that, yep.
Speaker 3: And we have a C. S. Lewis.
Speaker 1: It's that poster but a tapestry at our wall, and
it's that think about there are no small sins. Each
a trivial surrender to an active lust or anger gives
the enemy of beachheads or a spot on a bridge
from what she can launch you and attack you at
a thought impossible.
Speaker 3: Right I'm paraphrasing.
Speaker 1: Appreciate your time, my brother, Thank you, and thank you
for the wise counsel. Thank you for your work in
your Ministry, and again there's a link to the books.
The show notes that I encourage you to buy those. Brother,
Thank you very.
Speaker 4: Much, Todd. Thank you brother. Keep doing what you're doing.
Speaker 3: Brother, We're gonna do it. This is the Todd Herban Show.
Speaker 1: Please go, be well, be strong, be kind, and please
make every effort to walk in the light of Christ.
And I do hope that you, like me, get to
go spend time with your beloved wife or husband or family.
Speaker 3: Later I man