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Speaker 2: All right, welcome back to Rise to Liberty podcast. I
Speaker 2: hope everyone enjoyed the new opening. Put a lot of
Speaker 2: work into that, so I thought it was a pretty badass.
Speaker 2: But today's guest is Jose Galisan of the Norway Jose Podcast.
Speaker 2: Real quick, before we get into that, though, I just
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Speaker 6: Absolutely, the dough shavecode the way to.
Speaker 2: Go right right, Absolutely without a doubt. I mean, and
Speaker 2: they have the balls to sponsor both of us.
Speaker 6: Hey, real quick, I don't know if it's just me
Speaker 6: and I can't see the live chat in my setup,
Speaker 6: but it seems like you're coming in a little bit
Speaker 6: of hot, a little hot. I feel like I should
Speaker 6: have said something before we started, but I didn't notice
Speaker 6: it until just now. So how's that still seems hot
Speaker 6: to me? You can ask the chat, I mean, they'll
Speaker 6: tell better than I can, but it comes off pretty hot.
Speaker 6: Keep on a talking, let's see chat.
Speaker 2: Let me know how's how that is working for you?
Speaker 6: Down there? You go, that's something?
Speaker 2: Well all right, how does that sound better?
Speaker 6: Yeah? Better? All right? All right?
Speaker 2: All right, okay, Well with that, let's just jump straight
Speaker 2: into it. So first and foremost, I mean, this is
Speaker 2: the first time you've been on my show, So do
Speaker 2: you kind of want to just give a rundown who
Speaker 2: you are and like what your show's about, kind of
Speaker 2: how you got into all of.
Speaker 6: This, Yeah, who's a galley Son podcaster? I guess I
Speaker 6: dabble and research. I get I get this. I get
Speaker 6: this a lot from like a lot of the researcher types.
Speaker 6: They shit on me for not being a researcher, and
Speaker 6: it's like, well, I'm not really, but I have dabbled,
Speaker 6: so I can see why people can see that. At
Speaker 6: some point I would like to dig more into research
Speaker 6: could but I have dabbled a little bit. I have
Speaker 6: a particularly in this topic is probably where I've dabbled
Speaker 6: the most, and actually getting involved in the doing some
Speaker 6: real work involved to it, in some actual research. I
Speaker 6: mean in a certain sense. I guess all all of
Speaker 6: us podcasters are researchers. We're just I don't know, finding
Speaker 6: stuff we find interesting and sharing it with the world.
Speaker 6: So that's really all I'm doing. Uh, And it seems
Speaker 6: like I found a semi decent following along the way
Speaker 6: I've I guess, semi decents what you could call success
Speaker 6: in the realm of podcasting. You know, I'm by no
Speaker 6: means fucking like killing it and then the like a
Speaker 6: six figuring it up in podcasting everything. I haven't made
Speaker 6: it rich, but I'm doing Okay, I guess in the
Speaker 6: context of what podcasting is. So I've had a fun time,
Speaker 6: but I kind of started out I cut my teeth
Speaker 6: on theory, libertaty and theory is kind of I started
Speaker 6: on a lot on Probably first couple hundred episodes were
Speaker 6: probably almost exclusively we're like this, this was a this
Speaker 6: No Way Jose was a theory podcast. And then at
Speaker 6: some point, really the major turning point was when I
Speaker 6: covered the Oklahoma City bombing. Is I think that's when
Speaker 6: I really just, I don't know, something about that drove
Speaker 6: my interest. I just I don't know. I think it's
Speaker 6: maybe just a sign of times two, a lot going on.
Speaker 6: I just lost interest in the theory side of things,
Speaker 6: which I'm kind of add and obsessive like that. So
Speaker 6: I'm sure maybe I'll come back to it at some point,
Speaker 6: but you know, I kind of dropped it. But so
Speaker 6: I I mean, I leave it and leave it open
Speaker 6: to come back to it. That's the beautiful nature of
Speaker 6: having a podcast that's called something like No Way Jose. Like,
Speaker 6: I haven't tied myself to anything. I can talk about
Speaker 6: whatever the hell I want. But as of right now,
Speaker 6: this show is pretty much a parapolitical podcast. I do
Speaker 6: a daily a live stream kind of like a morning
Speaker 6: show thing. It's at ten am Eastern. I say daily,
Speaker 6: but it's like Monday through Friday, you know, weekend. They're
Speaker 6: kind of like bonuses. We do those quite frequently. That's
Speaker 6: me and my buddy Austin, who is more of a
Speaker 6: researcher less of a podcaster. I'm more of a podcast
Speaker 6: less of a researcher. Together, we make a podcaster researcher together.
Speaker 6: So but so he is, he's there like kind of
Speaker 6: the research guy. But he me and him both host
Speaker 6: those morning dumps, so we'll kind of alternate or do
Speaker 6: them together depending on who's available. That's just a hangout thing,
Speaker 6: So that's just kind of hanging out. I call it
Speaker 6: a dump because it's kind of like a research dump
Speaker 6: of sorts, but it's also like a morning show. So
Speaker 6: we kind of dig through the latest and then also
Speaker 6: kind of maybe some old research. And then yeah, we
Speaker 6: have a weekly live show we do, and then we
Speaker 6: have our solo work, which is kind of like, you know,
Speaker 6: stuff like I've been having you on lately to cover
Speaker 6: the false memory syndrome. We have a whole series on
Speaker 6: that I've kind of made a knack. I've done a
Speaker 6: lot of series, and a lot of those are with Austin.
Speaker 6: Like we mentioned earlier, I've done like a Finder series
Speaker 6: with him, and and we've done quite a few we
Speaker 6: to Jonestown, so I mean and him, I've done a
Speaker 6: lot of work together. We've kind of been a little
Speaker 6: bit of a team. We have our own separate platforms,
Speaker 6: but we do essentially two shows together that go on
Speaker 6: both on our platforms. But we have our own solo
Speaker 6: work as well. But he's more of the you know,
Speaker 6: produced solo research work. Where do I do more like
Speaker 6: you know, I'm more of them podcaster interviews, discussions, sepphal
Speaker 6: of those like. So you can kind of get your
Speaker 6: fill of both of us from both of our platforms
Speaker 6: with I mean, he's over on the Underclass podcast, but
Speaker 6: two out of three of his shows feature on my
Speaker 6: channel as well, so and vice versa with my stuff.
Speaker 6: So that's that's kind of who I am. I guess.
Speaker 6: I mean, I guess don't really say at all who
Speaker 6: I am particular, I guess if anyone who actually gives
Speaker 6: a shit about that, I mean, I know, I'm a
Speaker 6: dad husband, I mean, I have have two teenage girls,
Speaker 6: well one teenage girl, one's about to be teenager somewhat soon.
Speaker 7: I did.
Speaker 6: I was active duty military for eleven years, and I
Speaker 6: got out during the time while I was a podcast
Speaker 6: So as around that like twenty twenty time frame, what
Speaker 6: was it, twenty twenty one, twenty twenty two, I forget
Speaker 6: the exact year, but either way, roughly in that timeframe
Speaker 6: is when I got out. That was when I was podcasting.
Speaker 6: So I don't know. I guess those are kind of
Speaker 6: significant things to know about me. Not really much special
Speaker 6: about me. I did get really sucked into the local
Speaker 6: and stity bombing is kind of what most people know
Speaker 6: me before. I guess not most people. I mean I
Speaker 6: say that like as if a bunch of people know me,
Speaker 6: but I don't know. That would be probably one of
Speaker 6: the thing I'm best known for people. I've done a
Speaker 6: lot of coverage in OKLHO and city bombing, but in
Speaker 6: general I do a lot of talking on parapolitical stuff,
Speaker 6: like We're getting ready to go on. We were talking
Speaker 6: for you, so I get ready go on, Jake Shields
Speaker 6: and we're gonna talk about We're gonna do almost like
Speaker 6: a two episode series of sorts I think, starting with
Speaker 6: Oklahoma City bombing and ending with like, you know, the
Speaker 6: first one like Oklahoma City bombing, the second one ending
Speaker 6: with like Finders and Dutroux type stuff, and so kind
Speaker 6: of weaving from one to the other. The big the
Speaker 6: larger narrative being Gladio. I mean, we've gone we went
Speaker 6: on Triple Show recently kind of laid out the theory
Speaker 6: of everything with Gladio. So I don't know, that's just
Speaker 6: kind of our wheelhouse, just a parapolitical funness. So I
Speaker 6: guess it's we para politicals just a cleaned up way
Speaker 6: of saying conspiracy. Really, but I feel like it leads
Speaker 6: to this flavor too of like we usually try to
Speaker 6: like to come from a here's the sources tripe angle.
Speaker 6: Like it doesn't mean I'm gonna be perfect about every
Speaker 6: little thing. We are running a show. To some extent
Speaker 6: there will be a little bit of info wars vibe
Speaker 6: to it, but for the most part we do try
Speaker 6: to come from a place of truth and not truth
Speaker 6: TM like a truth Oh here's this document, here's this
Speaker 6: Oh you know, you gave some pushback, here's this other document.
Speaker 6: Oh maybe I'm wrong uh, just that that kind of perspective.
Speaker 6: So that's who I am, That's what I'm about. I
Speaker 6: don't know, yeah, that's a really I mean, I don't
Speaker 6: have a whole lot to say for myself aside from that, But.
Speaker 5: I don't know.
Speaker 6: We have fun on our show, uh you know, we
Speaker 6: we we hang out, we cover fun stuff. So good
Speaker 6: place for current events and past events, I would think so.
Speaker 2: But yeah, right, I mean, I've totally made totally made
Speaker 2: the morning Dump part of my daily routine at this point.
Speaker 2: So it's just I'm not a big fan of a
Speaker 2: lot of morning shows, and now I finally found one
Speaker 2: that I like with you guys, and you know, Austin's
Speaker 2: been on my show a couple of times now talk
Speaker 2: about the Vegas shooting and our first episode we kind
Speaker 2: of just touched on, like lightly touched on like a
Speaker 2: bunch of different topics and stuff. So you know, I
Speaker 2: kind of actually have like the same arc as you,
Speaker 2: like obviously with the name like Rise to Liberty, Like
Speaker 2: I kind of started with libertarian stuff and started twenty
Speaker 2: twenty one or twenty two, I don't know. I started
Speaker 2: around the same time as Kyle Matovic and him and
Speaker 2: I like launched like within maybe like a week or
Speaker 2: two of each other, and it's just kind of interesting.
Speaker 2: I started because I saw like this attack on free
Speaker 2: speech and stuff, and I was like, even if the
Speaker 2: market is oversaturated, I don't really care. We should just
Speaker 2: flood the market with as much free speech as possible.
Speaker 2: And then I started realizing just like how lame libertarianism is.
Speaker 2: The ideas are great, the people suck, and so I'm
Speaker 2: just I'm just way more interested in things that I've
Speaker 2: been interested long before libertarianism.
Speaker 6: If we're gonna do origins, it's been a while since
Speaker 6: I've done that one and A that's a deep lore.
Speaker 6: That's kind of fun. I guess kind of was what
Speaker 6: started me podcasting, was I actually when I first started,
Speaker 6: it was peak peak peak COVID, I guess peak lockdowns,
Speaker 6: like when we were at the top, like I was,
Speaker 6: I was reeling, I was losing my mind, was freaking
Speaker 6: the fuck out, like everything that I had read about
Speaker 6: was coming true. I was not prepared in my life.
Speaker 6: I was still activity military, like I was not. I
Speaker 6: was not ready for the boogloo to go down. That's like,
Speaker 6: that's the kind of the way I saw things and
Speaker 6: so one thing that we were doing is this, before
Speaker 6: we saw the huge tech censorship, Facebook used to be
Speaker 6: a really great tool, especially for community building for groups.
Speaker 6: And we took that and we applied that concept and
Speaker 6: we're trying to apply like network concepts, and we created
Speaker 6: what we called the Liberty Movement. And this was an idea,
Speaker 6: and we also had this concept just kind of I
Speaker 6: guess rooted a little bit like Agoris type concepts. We
Speaker 6: had this idea that we thought, like the political is
Speaker 6: what kind of really caused the issue with when it
Speaker 6: comes to libertarians generally or liberty minded people. And so
Speaker 6: that was kind of like, hey, we're not this is
Speaker 6: just a group for you guys to hang out whatever.
Speaker 6: This doesn't explicitly vote for this guy, vote for that guy, whatever,
Speaker 6: you guys talk about it. But essentially the idea was
Speaker 6: just face but groups. And from there there was almost
Speaker 6: like a network concept to it, like we had different
Speaker 6: groups that were for different concept and then groups that
Speaker 6: were more local. Like so when then we even had
Speaker 6: all the way down to countries, we had country ones.
Speaker 6: We had it like very well organized down to like countries, states,
Speaker 6: and so the idea was we were just trying to
Speaker 6: get it, so people had like real world networks to
Speaker 6: be kind of build meet up and stuff like that,
Speaker 6: and uh, that just kind of ended up honestly, the
Speaker 6: really we actually I thought we're really making some good
Speaker 6: headway and a lot of cool things wrapping. We had
Speaker 6: a couple of local meetups where I was at, and
Speaker 6: we kind of made some local chapters and other places
Speaker 6: did as well. Uh, but it did kind of fall apart.
Speaker 6: I really blamed the Facebook censorship for that. Honestly, it
Speaker 6: became Facebook became completely untenable, and it happened so quickly.
Speaker 6: It was like we weren't able to really because we
Speaker 6: did try to like shift like mi wei and other
Speaker 6: shit like that. But anyways, the podcast was actually born
Speaker 6: out of that. It was part of a kind of
Speaker 6: a promotional like idea to kind of promote it and
Speaker 6: also kind of promote the concept because because I was
Speaker 6: also like I was doing my own show to kind
Speaker 6: of like promote it the idea. But really what I
Speaker 6: was trying to do was feature other people's shows, especially
Speaker 6: startup shows or people with similar concepts, and feature them
Speaker 6: on the channel and then almost have like a daily
Speaker 6: content and then just be different shows and I had
Speaker 6: a few different shows that I was doing anyways, long
Speaker 6: story short, that became too untenable. The other show kind
Speaker 6: of I kind of found I was liking podcasting, but
Speaker 6: it was born completely a promotional thing. It was kind
Speaker 6: of dragging, you know, kicking and screaming because like other
Speaker 6: admins in the group were like, Hey, this is totally
Speaker 6: something you should do, you would be good at it,
Speaker 6: you're good about you like to talk about these things.
Speaker 6: And the rest is kind of history. And then overtime
Speaker 6: it like the what was called the Liberty Movement, which
Speaker 6: is the original YouTube channel slowly, and then I had
Speaker 6: No Way Jose but which is a was a show
Speaker 6: that featured on the Liberty Movement. Eventually, No Way Jose
Speaker 6: took off and Liberty Movement just kind of fizzled out.
Speaker 6: So but you can blame Zuckerberg for that one. That
Speaker 6: we don't have this illustrious, beautiful, thriving liberty movie meant
Speaker 6: the thing imagic. So it was actually kind of probing
Speaker 6: a little bit for there for a minute, we had
Speaker 6: a lot of stuff happening, but it, uh, yeah, shit
Speaker 6: got rough. But that's yeah, that's I don't know, I
Speaker 6: just I don't know why. I felt like sharing that
Speaker 6: just was some error called some old war that I
Speaker 6: was like I had forg almost fart forgotten entirely about
Speaker 6: that ever happening.
Speaker 2: Right, No, And it's it's weird. I feel like I
Speaker 2: have almost the exact same mark, because I mean I
Speaker 2: was doing uh I'm actually still county chair of my
Speaker 2: local county LP. It ended up disbanding and then I
Speaker 2: came in started the whole thing, built it from the
Speaker 2: ground up and did that for like two and a
Speaker 2: half years, and it just it's just done now, I mean,
Speaker 2: and I don't know, nobody really gives a shit, you know.
Speaker 2: And so it started off really strong. People were coming
Speaker 2: out doing things, and then people want you to be
Speaker 2: doing something, but you have to have people to do things,
Speaker 2: and we couldn't get people to come out, and so
Speaker 2: it was like this like weird vicious circle, not being
Speaker 2: able to get people to come out more than an
Speaker 2: hour once a month, and it's like, Okay, well this
Speaker 2: just isn't worth it. There's better ways to spread liberty.
Speaker 2: And as far as the podcast thing goes, like I'm
Speaker 2: with you, I enjoy podcasting, but you know, I enjoy
Speaker 2: the ideas It's just every time I cover anything like
Speaker 2: specifically libertarian view viewership just tanks every time, and it's like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: I mean I'm interested in more things than just that.
Speaker 2: And actually with your show, with your Oklahoma City, I
Speaker 2: guess your series. I don't know why it was so
Speaker 2: hard for me to figure out that word, but your
Speaker 2: your Oklahoma series, I had actually never thought of Oklahoma
Speaker 2: City like in that way at all. I mean I've
Speaker 2: been a I guess conspiracy theorist since maybe junior high,
Speaker 2: you know, like that's when I started really getting into it.
Speaker 2: That's when I found Alex Jones, and so pretty much
Speaker 2: since then, you know, I've covered or been into all
Speaker 2: sorts of topics. But I had never thought of Oklahoma
Speaker 2: City until I saw your show. And then I just,
Speaker 2: like binge, watched all of your episodes and then just
Speaker 2: consumed everything that I could possibly get my hands on,
Speaker 2: so to kind of move things along. Where did you
Speaker 2: find Oklahoma City?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 2: Where where did that come along?
Speaker 7: Well?
Speaker 6: I mean I think I was like kind of sort
Speaker 6: of a little bit of awareness. I mean I really
Speaker 6: didn't have any sort of real, I guess awareness of
Speaker 6: the Oklahoma City bombing before really my coverage started. So
Speaker 6: I think that's part of what I guess made my
Speaker 6: you know, coverage a little bit unique, is that I
Speaker 6: think it was like I was kind of learning along
Speaker 6: with the audience through it all, and I got essentially
Speaker 6: an expert on to kind of cover it with me.
Speaker 6: But what really got me started was an edit, which
Speaker 6: you know, I've told this story many times. There was
Speaker 6: a Jinx edit crack connoisseur on Twitter I think is
Speaker 6: a I don't think his account exists anymore. I assume
Speaker 6: you at the activator or something. I doubt he got nuked,
Speaker 6: but anyways, he I mean, he's been nuked many many times.
Speaker 6: But he had this Terence Yeky edit which really caught
Speaker 6: my eye slash ear, I really tugged at my heart strings.
Speaker 6: I was also just kind of incredulous, like this seems
Speaker 6: nuts like kind of story that was being told in
Speaker 6: that two to three minute little musical you know rendition, which,
Speaker 6: for those aren't aware what a Twitter edit, that's kind
Speaker 6: you know, it's kind of a kind of like your
Speaker 6: intro at the beginning here, it's kind of a on
Speaker 6: a different audio and video intersplice with you know a
Speaker 6: lot of maybe like different documents or usually telling a story,
Speaker 6: I mean, in the very common the conspiracy landscape. So
Speaker 6: I saw that and then just kind of kind of
Speaker 6: freaking blew my mind. It's like, holy crap. So I
Speaker 6: went and looked into It's just kind of like this
Speaker 6: can't be real that the story Terreen's Yiky went looked
Speaker 6: into it, and I was kind of like the more
Speaker 6: look at him, like more, I'm like, oh my god.
Speaker 6: And so that's when the Terren' Yeky story that really
Speaker 6: just kind of like holy moly. And then I just
Speaker 6: kind of put a call out to the world, I guess,
Speaker 6: and I was like I don't remember exactly what I said,
Speaker 6: but something along the lines of like, Hey, who do
Speaker 6: I need to get to cover locals to be bombing?
Speaker 6: I want to cover this on the show. And I
Speaker 6: heard from multiple people, I think Scott Horton being one
Speaker 6: of them. Hey, get Richard booth On. And Richard booth
Speaker 6: He is the I call him the crypt keeper of
Speaker 6: the of the Libertarian Institute Oklahoma City Bombing are Archive,
Speaker 6: which that is the largest public you know, Oklahoma City
Speaker 6: Bombing Archive of you know, I guess public documents. I
Speaker 6: guess is the way to put it, just different to
Speaker 6: different any documents or anything you know concerning it, different articles, whatever,
Speaker 6: anything can really think of. Is a repository of information
Speaker 6: for that. It's the largest public one out there, and
Speaker 6: that's a that's hosted by the the Libertarian Institute, which
Speaker 6: is Scott Horton's website. So and it's you know, it's
Speaker 6: Richard Booth, the one who like handles manages it pretty
Speaker 6: much entirely, and it's essentially it's essentially Google for the
Speaker 6: Oklahoma City bombing. So you go in there and you
Speaker 6: type in yiky and then boom, it brings up all
Speaker 6: the different documents and articles and whatever if three o
Speaker 6: two reports whatever concerning it to him, you know, anything
Speaker 6: you know relating to that. So it's kind of you know,
Speaker 6: depending on keywords, searts related. Anyways, it was so then
Speaker 6: I got him and we spent and around i'd say
Speaker 6: probably around fifteen hours on a series. There's a bonus
Speaker 6: episode in there with Ken Silvan in the middle, and
Speaker 6: also there are other primary sources interviews throughout there. I
Speaker 6: interviewed Tanya Yiki, which was a incredible treat because that
Speaker 6: was kind of what starred me down this road she was.
Speaker 6: I just I never would have imagined interviewing her. She
Speaker 6: hadn't been interviewed and since back into the nineties, so
Speaker 6: it was like ninety six I think the last time
Speaker 6: she was interviewed. Also interviewed Steve Vasser, which was one
Speaker 6: of the best friends of Yiki, and you know, done
Speaker 6: a number of other things related to this and made
Speaker 6: some I think some actual research happened, So I think
Speaker 6: that's cool. Whether that was me or have I just
Speaker 6: kind of facilitated it, So I don't know. It's kind
Speaker 6: of cool to think I've had some sort of footprint
Speaker 6: on this story and hopefully I can continue to have more,
Speaker 6: because I do think this is a super important story too,
Speaker 6: like one like you laid out. It is kind of
Speaker 6: a sleeper story. Most people aren't even really aware there's
Speaker 6: so much to this and it is a lot, so
Speaker 6: most people don't even aware. It's also kind of one
Speaker 6: that's at it's it's due, it's time, so it's like
Speaker 6: at that moment, h you know, and the the the
Speaker 6: rhythm that like circular, like how time works with these
Speaker 6: deep events and you know, when we uh, you know,
Speaker 6: when we start getting crazy disclosure or public awareness raising.
Speaker 6: It just seems we're at that spot where it's supposed
Speaker 6: to be that scav is supposed to be getting picked,
Speaker 6: that that that bandage is supposed to be taken off
Speaker 6: around right now. That's when I think shit is really
Speaker 6: supposed to break is around right now. And it's a
Speaker 6: kind of a little bit of a bummer that I
Speaker 6: think a lot of people have for gone. It almost
Speaker 6: got a overshadowed by nine to eleven. Uh So, I
Speaker 6: think there's just so much in it, which I mean,
Speaker 6: some of which I think it's a it's also the
Speaker 6: being more niche makes it more fun in a certain sense.
Speaker 6: Fun I guess is the wrong word. But so for
Speaker 6: you know, open for research. Yeah, but like nine to eleven,
Speaker 6: it's kind of like it's boring, Like I don't know,
Speaker 6: that's kind of how I feel about it. I just
Speaker 6: I'm not interested in nine eleven research. I'm just not.
Speaker 6: It bores me. I don't know why, just because it's
Speaker 6: like everyone talks about nine to eleven. I've heard people
Speaker 6: talk about nine to eleven so many times, just like
Speaker 6: here nine to eleven, I just go. But I know
Speaker 6: for me, maybe I'm just a hipster like that here
Speaker 6: Golom the city bombing. I'm like, okay, But anyways, point
Speaker 6: being is it, it's at that time and I think
Speaker 6: the O being overshadowed by the nine to eleven actually
Speaker 6: might be a little bit of its own secret weapon
Speaker 6: that people are kind of like expecting maybe some sort
Speaker 6: of push for nine eleven still where it's like nope,
Speaker 6: you know, gotcha, sucker, this one's hiding the wing. But anyways,
Speaker 6: and I'm kind of rambling now, but yeah, I'm a
Speaker 6: story I care about a lot, and it's just that's
Speaker 6: kind of what I how I got dragged into it
Speaker 6: was a story of Yiki, and I think it's really
Speaker 6: for me. With Yiki's story, it really is just a
Speaker 6: I don't know, I just uh, you know. I was
Speaker 6: able to sympathize with a essentially a company man of
Speaker 6: sorts that was, you know, at that like midway level
Speaker 6: of his career that clearly was running into issue us
Speaker 6: the trot brass trying to do the right thing and
Speaker 6: just really just getting butt up against by the reality
Speaker 6: of the beast that is the Lefaivan of government. I
Speaker 6: can very much sympathize it. That is my story and
Speaker 6: many other people that I've known who have like spent
Speaker 6: I don't know a year in the realm of a
Speaker 6: decade in government and go, oh my god, this is
Speaker 6: soul crushing. You feel trapped. So but I mean, luckily
Speaker 6: I've been able to kind of you know, I was
Speaker 6: able to. I was sort of trapped, but I've been
Speaker 6: able to kind of somewhat leverage the limited success I've
Speaker 6: had from podcasting to be able to I don't know,
Speaker 6: not be in the poorhouse. So thank you guys for that.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 6: So, yeah, it's been cool. Like I said, you know,
Speaker 6: going to I'll be going on Jake Shields and stuff soon,
Speaker 6: so you know, I've been you know, you guys have
Speaker 6: been good to me. I mean I'm not I'm not
Speaker 6: rich by any means, but I'm doing okay. So I
Speaker 6: appreciate you support out.
Speaker 2: There, and honestly, I gotta say, I think it's super rad.
Speaker 2: I love seeing my friends get out there and make
Speaker 2: something of themselves, especially something they like doing. Uh, success
Speaker 2: for one is success for all. And you know seeing
Speaker 2: because I mean, I've I've followed you pretty much since
Speaker 2: you started the Oklahoma City series and so just to
Speaker 2: see like your progression, it's just really cool, and I'm
Speaker 2: I'm really proud of you. I think that's super awesome
Speaker 2: and it's awesome to get you on my show finally.
Speaker 2: So but with that, let's jump into Oklahoma City just
Speaker 2: a little bit. I actually do have one of these
Speaker 2: edits that I was gonna play real quick just to
Speaker 2: give kind of people an idea of what we're talking about.
Speaker 2: So let's let's go ahead and play that. I actually
Speaker 2: have two. We'll play one a little bit later. I
Speaker 2: have I have I have a yeeky one as well,
Speaker 2: So but this first one is just kind of a
Speaker 2: general okay, see and uh, well we'll go from there. Oh,
Speaker 2: tedious process of removing the debris, and it's just it's unreal.
Speaker 2: If anybody knows of anything, this is my mom.
Speaker 6: She's forty seven.
Speaker 5: My friends are minty.
Speaker 2: We've checked all the hospitals, We've left her picture everywhere,
Speaker 2: but we really feel in our hearts that was her
Speaker 2: that we saw.
Speaker 7: But now we're mostly God's right now the.
Speaker 5: Time to be or will open.
Speaker 2: Anything that's more.
Speaker 7: Curly and try.
Speaker 6: Both sides are r.
Speaker 5: Suddenly December, we did shaken, disillusioned.
Speaker 8: That could happen, so like just one big.
Speaker 5: Boom railway loud. I don't want it to desk and
Speaker 5: then all ago, what do you think about?
Speaker 6: Oh, oh my god, if that's anything, and what he
Speaker 6: didn't do, Oh my goodness, I couldn't imagine what they
Speaker 6: did to those people.
Speaker 7: We have a large columns.
Speaker 9: We're going to the south of the head revenue check
Speaker 9: on that.
Speaker 2: So that's one of the many okay, see schizoclips or
Speaker 2: Twitter clips that you see floating around. So just real
Speaker 2: quick to give a quick rundown of at least the
Speaker 2: official story for anyone who might not know. On April nineteenth,
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety five, which means we are coming up on
Speaker 2: the thirtieth anniversary this year, Timothy McVeigh, a twenty six
Speaker 2: year old US Army veteran with anti government views, detonated
Speaker 2: a truck bomb outside the Alfred P. Mariah Federal Building
Speaker 2: in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. The bomb, made of an ammonium nitrate,
Speaker 2: fertilizer and diesel fuel, was packed into a rented rider
Speaker 2: truck parked in a drop off zone at nine o
Speaker 2: two am. It exploded, killing one hundred and sixty eight people,
Speaker 2: including nineteen children, and injuring over six hundred The blast
Speaker 2: destroyed a third of the building and damaged hundreds of
Speaker 2: nearby structures. McVeigh acted primarily alone, driven by rage over
Speaker 2: federal actions at Ruby Ridge and Waco, which he saw
Speaker 2: as overreaches of power. Terry Nichols, an Army acquaintance, assisted
Speaker 2: by helping acquire materials and build the bomb at Nichols
Speaker 2: Farm in Kansas. McVeigh was arrested ninety minutes after the
Speaker 2: attack during a traffic stop, linked by evidence like bomb
Speaker 2: residue on his clothes and a rental receipt. Nichols surrendered
Speaker 2: days later. The FBI concluded it was a domestic terrorist
Speaker 2: act with no broader conspiracy. McVeigh was convicted on federal
Speaker 2: murder charges in nineteen ninety seven and executed in two
Speaker 2: thousand and one. Nichols received life without parole for federal
Speaker 2: and state bombing related charges. The attack remains the deadliest
Speaker 2: act of domestic terrorism in US history. So that's a
Speaker 2: quick rundown of the official story. So I guess where
Speaker 2: was it for you? Where the first piece of information
Speaker 2: where you said, oh, this is bullshit.
Speaker 6: Well, for me, as I was working from yiki like
Speaker 6: as I said, So I started from yiki. I think
Speaker 6: there's different entrance points for different people. I think it's
Speaker 6: different strokes different folks. I think it really maybe it's
Speaker 6: a matter of a you know, I don't know. Maybe
Speaker 6: if you're more of a I don't know, an emotional
Speaker 6: mind or a or an analytical mind. I think the
Speaker 6: analytical mind will tend to get caught up with John
Speaker 6: Doe to surveillance tape stuff like that. But I think
Speaker 6: the I know, the emotional mind or maybe it's a
Speaker 6: better word I'm looking for here, but we'll probably get
Speaker 6: caught up more in the trying to do and the
Speaker 6: yiky's and in those sort of stories. And that's what
Speaker 6: did it for me. I think it's just my Really,
Speaker 6: the as I said before, I can empathize with the
Speaker 6: situation and blood the father, the thing is really gets
Speaker 6: to me. So I don't know that that sort of
Speaker 6: thing's tugs on my heart strings a lot. So that's
Speaker 6: what really did to me. But really, yeky story just
Speaker 6: I mean, this guy that I mean was reporting to
Speaker 6: everybody and there's a lot of people claiming around him
Speaker 6: that he was having issues with the brass around him
Speaker 6: that he really just didn't buy the story. And then
Speaker 6: this guy you know, ends up dead in a field
Speaker 6: about a year and some change after the bombing, after
Speaker 6: all of this, after fighting with the brass, after you know,
Speaker 6: being you know there, you know, there's a there's a
Speaker 6: letter with a with another person researching these things. But
Speaker 6: he's found in a he's found He's found in a
Speaker 6: in a field a mile or a half a mile
Speaker 6: to a mile and a half away from his car,
Speaker 6: which is covered in blood.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 6: And he has you know, what looks like lacerations on
Speaker 6: his like wrists, his neck. He has blood and you know,
Speaker 6: looks like or grass packed into the wounds. I mean,
Speaker 6: he's he's got a you know, a gunshot wound to
Speaker 6: the head going at a downward angle. I mean, there's
Speaker 6: just so much going on here that it's just it's
Speaker 6: just bizarre. I mean, it looks I mean, there's more
Speaker 6: to this story, but it's it's very clearly this guy
Speaker 6: was killed. And uh, you know, you look and do
Speaker 6: it more and you're like, why was this guy killed?
Speaker 6: What were they covering up? I mean, it is and
Speaker 6: that is probably, I guess probably, Uh. I think one
Speaker 6: of the things that brings people back to that story
Speaker 6: over and over again. When it comes to Yiki, what
Speaker 6: did he see? There's a lot of people who claim
Speaker 6: different things. His sister Lashawn claimed that he said something
Speaker 6: along the lines of seeing evidence of things blowing out
Speaker 6: as opposed to in the implication there being you know,
Speaker 6: bombs in the building as opposed to you know, bombs
Speaker 6: outside of the building, the official narrative being bombs outside
Speaker 6: the building, because if you have a truck bomb, it
Speaker 6: is on the outside of the building. Is therefore blowing
Speaker 6: at like towards the building, blowing in as opposed to
Speaker 6: blowing out, which you have bombs inside of it. So
Speaker 6: there's that, I mean, there's other things that you know,
Speaker 6: people claim. I know why I had when I had
Speaker 6: Tanya on this on the show, she brought up the
Speaker 6: ATF shenanigans and how none of the ATF were in
Speaker 6: the building. And then there were the all these crazy
Speaker 6: stories that you know, came out out, these you know,
Speaker 6: stories of our robics from the ATF, how they actually
Speaker 6: were in the building and they did this that this
Speaker 6: all the different all the the rolodecks of cover stories. Uh,
Speaker 6: you know that there you know, look and it looks
Speaker 6: like in all that that looked like this, the pandemonium
Speaker 6: from the start, there was you know, there were there
Speaker 6: were reasons to believe that between Terry and I always
Speaker 6: mess up his name, the doctor, I always want to
Speaker 6: say Jolly West, but obviously that's the different doctor. But
Speaker 6: it's the what is his name? And then a sometimes
Speaker 6: I want to say the chaplain Poe because that's that's
Speaker 6: another per story, a name in there that's not right either.
Speaker 6: But there was a there was another doctor who was
Speaker 6: working with Yiki who also died under extremely suspicious circumstances.
Speaker 6: So Uh and the the key point with him and
Speaker 6: Uh and Yiki, this doctor him is that they were
Speaker 6: one of the first peoples on this one of the
Speaker 6: first people in the scene. The doctor is helping provide
Speaker 6: you know, health or help or emergency care for people
Speaker 6: affected on the scene. Terry was obviously one of the
Speaker 6: first people there. They were trying to get the doctor
Speaker 6: to provide treatment to atf individuals as the claim that
Speaker 6: didn't need it. That obviously the implication there to make
Speaker 6: it look like, oh, you know, now you have documented,
Speaker 6: Oh I provided medical care for so and so. Oh
Speaker 6: he was here providing some sort of documentation. So there's
Speaker 6: that they think there might be something in the in
Speaker 6: the realm of there that apparently Terry got into a
Speaker 6: big argument with some of the one of the ATF
Speaker 6: guys there as a result of all that. Essentially he
Speaker 6: seemed to think there were shenanigans afoot, and it's like,
Speaker 6: why are you guys who clearly weren't here trying to
Speaker 6: make it look like you were. What is going on?
Speaker 6: So apparently he was spooked from the jump. So I
Speaker 6: think there were probably a number of things that tipped
Speaker 6: Terry off to was going on, and from there he
Speaker 6: started doing his own investigation, and I think that only
Speaker 6: that only that ended up leading to demise. So but
Speaker 6: at the same time, it did, I guess, kind of
Speaker 6: wake up a lot of us along the way, since
Speaker 6: you know, here I am, and uh, Tierry was my
Speaker 6: entry point into the story.
Speaker 2: So so, I mean, this is kind of a stupid question,
Speaker 2: but do you believe that Yeeky was very clearly murdered?
Speaker 6: Oh? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Do you have any theory as to like who it
Speaker 2: could have been? Would it have been local or possibly federal?
Speaker 6: Do you think, oh, this is where we get really spooky.
Speaker 6: I mean, this is incredibly speculative. I have no idea.
Speaker 6: This is where I get into weird stuff. I don't
Speaker 6: think I'm blowing up anyone's spot because I think Tanya
Speaker 6: said this somewhere publicly, but I believe she said Ted
Speaker 6: Gunderson said something to her about how he thought it
Speaker 6: may have been satanic or something, which obviously a lot
Speaker 6: of people with scoff at first, and it does kin ridiculous,
Speaker 6: and maybe it is ridiculous. I don't know, but I
Speaker 6: mean there are reasons to, you know, I don't know
Speaker 6: think of Ted as a dubious source. I understand that,
Speaker 6: but I don't know. I mean, I also am very
Speaker 6: hip to the program to kill thesis, and it is like,
Speaker 6: I don't know, if we were to have kill squads
Speaker 6: of some sort, you'd probably need some pretty sick fucks
Speaker 6: to do that sort of stuff. So I don't know. Anyways,
Speaker 6: I guess I digress just kind of who did it.
Speaker 6: I don't know. I don't know the exact three letter agency,
Speaker 6: if you would even consider it to be a three
Speaker 6: letter agency, or if it's some sort of entity within
Speaker 6: an entity. I have no idea, but I think someone
Speaker 6: reached out or I think probably actually a couple of
Speaker 6: people will probably reach out and touch Terry and took
Speaker 6: care of that problem. Now that there was a big
Speaker 6: This is actually newer information that came out during the
Speaker 6: CNN interview that came out recently from Tina's Thomas Lake.
Speaker 6: He wrote a piece on Terry within the past couple
Speaker 6: of years, which was surprising to say the least, because
Speaker 6: actually a really good piece. I don't I mean, there's
Speaker 6: like things I can quibble about, and you know, things
Speaker 6: that have been pointed out, like Tanya yourself point out
Speaker 6: that they did. You know, maybe something to look out
Speaker 6: for if you are being conspiratorial or skeptical of their
Speaker 6: reporting is that they did seem to raise up some
Speaker 6: of the characters that maybe you should be a little
Speaker 6: bit concerned of as being baddies, as being more maybe
Speaker 6: not necessarily good characters. Is more like raising them up
Speaker 6: as uh, you know, I don't know, as sources I guess,
Speaker 6: and also kind of putting them in a more favorable light,
Speaker 6: if that makes sense. So but even even then now
Speaker 6: that aside, it's like that's a very minor quibble and
Speaker 6: it's kind of like, I don't know, it was a
Speaker 6: good it was a good piece of it. I forgot
Speaker 6: why I even was mentioning the Why was I even
Speaker 6: mentioning the scene and article?
Speaker 2: The new information that had come out due to the article, the.
Speaker 6: New information that came out, new information that came out.
Speaker 6: What was I talking about about the new information that
Speaker 6: came out specifically from the stand Oh oh oh, who
Speaker 6: killed them? Who done it? Who done it?
Speaker 7: Uh?
Speaker 6: The the information that came out. There's a Ramona McDonald
Speaker 6: is one of the this is the other person Tanya Yiky.
Speaker 4: It was.
Speaker 6: Before I interviewed Tanya Yeki. There was like Tanya Yiky
Speaker 6: and there was Ramona McDonald. Those were like my two,
Speaker 6: like these are the people I want to interview. Somehow,
Speaker 6: Tanya yeky just fell in my lap. She actually found
Speaker 6: my work. Was like, oh, I like your work. I
Speaker 6: would like to, you know, talk to you if I
Speaker 6: know you, you know, have really taken a liking to
Speaker 6: my husband's whatever. And essentially she hit me up right.
Speaker 6: But Ramona is like the other one that like, I
Speaker 6: have no idea myself how to get ahold of her.
Speaker 6: So anytime I try to bring this anytime, you can
Speaker 6: you know anyone out there knows her? Anything like that
Speaker 6: knows Ramone McDonald let me know, because she is a
Speaker 6: big source, someone that would be great to have on
Speaker 6: the record in a podcast format to talk about a
Speaker 6: lot of these things, because she had She does show
Speaker 6: up occasionally as a source, and she was especially you know,
Speaker 6: in the early days of the bombing. She's actually a
Speaker 6: noted character. A lot of people know, uh in the
Speaker 6: you know, the the narrative of Oklahima City bombing. She
Speaker 6: showed up occasionally. It was uh, like I said, it
Speaker 6: was a Ramona McDonald. And she ended up she kind
Speaker 6: of backed off when I guess she had a slew
Speaker 6: of personal issues directly related to her speaking out about
Speaker 6: the Oklahoma City bombing after it, so she changed. She
Speaker 6: ended up changing her name, and she got a whole
Speaker 6: hell of a lot more quiet, to the extent of
Speaker 6: really not ever getting involved anymore. Really, And but she
Speaker 6: did contribute a little bit to the most recent CNN article,
Speaker 6: And in that article she goes into how there were
Speaker 6: two individuals that Terry was supposed to go meet around
Speaker 6: the time he disappeared. Now these were feds of some sorts.
Speaker 6: She had been she had actually talked to them, met
Speaker 6: with them sort of semi unofficially as well, these are
Speaker 6: all reasons. I'd love to talk to her to clear
Speaker 6: these out to you know, more than just what's printed
Speaker 6: in print. But anyways, she she claims that he went
Speaker 6: to go meet with these people. These were some sort
Speaker 6: of glowies of some sort that Terry seemed to think
Speaker 6: maybe he could get them to them to listen about whatever,
Speaker 6: you know, he had. So he was going to you know,
Speaker 6: he was going to go to them. In his eyes,
Speaker 6: these were glowies that were going to listen. He had
Speaker 6: been trying to get people to listen to him for
Speaker 6: a while. He had some sort of information these ones
Speaker 6: were going to listen.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 6: She made a point to mention how he made a
Speaker 6: point to mention that he wasn't going to bring his
Speaker 6: gun for this meeting, obviously, the implication being, you know,
Speaker 6: concerned it could be used against you. Now this this
Speaker 6: is odd. I do find it odd. The last time
Speaker 6: we heard from hermon McDonald in Hoffman's article back in
Speaker 6: like ninety six, ninety seven or something, she he did
Speaker 6: mention that he was supposed to go meet with some Feds.
Speaker 6: But at that point I believe the claim was that
Speaker 6: he blew off the meeting. So I would be interested
Speaker 6: to know, like what change if maybe it was some
Speaker 6: sort of misunderstanding, but either way, so the original was
Speaker 6: until before it was originally the thought was that he
Speaker 6: went to go to some meeting, he was supposed to
Speaker 6: have some sort of meeting with feds, blew it off,
Speaker 6: and then you know, the more recent information is that
Speaker 6: he supposedly did go to the meeting and made a
Speaker 6: point not to bring his gun. So anyways, I digress.
Speaker 6: That's kind of I don't know exactly why I went on,
Speaker 6: but who did it. I guess the they would be
Speaker 6: whoever these FEDS were. He probably went to go meet
Speaker 6: to probably tell him about the super secret information he
Speaker 6: had that he probably had been being super secret about
Speaker 6: not telling anyone about, which is kind of part of
Speaker 6: the story, which is I think to some extent what
Speaker 6: got him screwed him over here is you know, he
Speaker 6: didn't even talk to like Tanya about the specifics she
Speaker 6: knew something was wrong, like, for example, there's like the
Speaker 6: famous statement of when she picked him up from the
Speaker 6: hospital after the Okam Slee bombing because he got injured
Speaker 6: saving people. One little detail I left out. He was
Speaker 6: the first responder. He saved upwards of three people at least.
Speaker 6: It's a very very, very gross over or underestimate of
Speaker 6: the people. He'd probably say, but you hurt himself in
Speaker 6: the process. She picked him up, and when she picked
Speaker 6: him up, he wasn't it. For one, he was in
Speaker 6: a rush to get the hell out of there. Who
Speaker 6: spooked seemed to think someone was he might have been
Speaker 6: in danger or something. But one of the first things
Speaker 6: he said to her when he got in the car
Speaker 6: was Tanya, it's not what they're telling you or they're
Speaker 6: lying to I think it might got that a little
Speaker 6: bit wrong, but eessentually that was a crux of it.
Speaker 6: And he was a you know, borderline, had tears in
Speaker 6: his eyes. So I mean, now it was always dodgy
Speaker 6: about details, and the reason being is he was concerned,
Speaker 6: you know, it would be that he was concerned that
Speaker 6: she would know too much.
Speaker 2: So right now, Uh, maybe I got this wrong, but Ramona,
Speaker 2: she was one of the women investigating it, correct because
Speaker 2: there there was like this group of like citizens or
Speaker 2: locals that were investigating a Yeah, I think so. And
Speaker 2: I think I read somewhere that she was one of
Speaker 2: the few people that actually got a copy of Yiki's
Speaker 2: original police report that he handed in. It might have
Speaker 2: been her or someone else, but somebody had a copy
Speaker 2: of it after the fact, and somebody broke into her
Speaker 2: house and stole it, which.
Speaker 6: A story. Yeah, she got her ship ransacked after as
Speaker 6: did Tanya as well.
Speaker 2: So right, so right, and so yeah, I just wanted
Speaker 2: to make sure that that was the same person that
Speaker 2: we were talking about. And so Yeky, I mean to me,
Speaker 2: out of out of all of it, Kenneth trying to
Speaker 2: do it's a close second. But I think these two
Speaker 2: stories in particular really make this seem like more of
Speaker 2: a cover up, right or a false flag. Like without
Speaker 2: these two stories, you know, maybe it could be. But
Speaker 2: these two stories, like they stand out so much, and
Speaker 2: then it's like, well, okay, a mysterious death. But then
Speaker 2: you look into exactly how Yeeky passed and it is
Speaker 2: somebody sending a very clear message like that was brutal,
Speaker 2: that was it was just heinous.
Speaker 6: Yeah what two leaders of blood they said, which you know,
Speaker 6: I've looked into it, and two leaders is basically where
Speaker 6: you're pretty much losing consciousness. You may have already losed consciousness,
Speaker 6: and you're not far along from dying.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 6: So, and to add on to all of this, this
Speaker 6: is keep in mind the car is some distance half
Speaker 6: mile to a mile and a half away from where
Speaker 6: the body is found. The car is what is covered
Speaker 6: in two lids of blood. His bodies somehow got from
Speaker 6: there to there. And on top of all of this,
Speaker 6: this man had was a sickle cell anemic, so he
Speaker 6: would have made like crazy. So the idea that he
Speaker 6: could have even on the low ball, with a low
Speaker 6: ball is half a mile away from the car, which
Speaker 6: I I find the the claims that it's half a
Speaker 6: mile to be questionable. I think it's more a mile
Speaker 6: and a half. But either way, even in a half mile,
Speaker 6: the idea that a man who lost two liters of
Speaker 6: blood and was sickle had sickle cell a nemia was
Speaker 6: going to travel a half mile into a field and
Speaker 6: blow his brains out, it's not happening. It's it's not
Speaker 6: it's not happening, right.
Speaker 2: And and the fact that they never found the firearm
Speaker 2: that he supposedly shot himself with at such an odd
Speaker 2: downward angle, because every everyone knows that you hold it
Speaker 2: like this if you're you know, gonna gonna remove yourself
Speaker 2: and I mean just everything else, like the rope burns,
Speaker 2: the the grass and gravel stuck into his wounds. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's just how more blatant could it be? I guess
Speaker 2: my my favorite, my favorite quote is from Dave McGowan.
Speaker 2: It's how many coincidences does it take to make a conspiracy?
Speaker 2: You know, like, how how many of these are we
Speaker 2: supposed to ignore before we realized like, oh this, this
Speaker 2: is actually the official story is bullshit?
Speaker 6: Exactly.
Speaker 2: So we we've touched on Yiki a bit. Do you
Speaker 2: want to give a rundown on trying to do Kenneth
Speaker 2: trying to do and how he ties into this?
Speaker 6: Yeah? Sure, Well he was a Kenneth was a Vietnam Vet.
Speaker 6: He had had a heroin addiction, you know, I guess
Speaker 6: you know, this is a common thing all of the
Speaker 6: Vietnam vets kind of you know, pick up that that
Speaker 6: habit during that time he was a you got into
Speaker 6: Robin Banks to you know, kind of deal with his habit,
Speaker 6: got caught, did all that stuff, you know, dealt with it,
Speaker 6: you know, went to jail all that. Now, he ended
Speaker 6: up having a parole violation later. The The issue was
Speaker 6: that he didn't want to part of the one of
Speaker 6: the conditions of the parole was that he couldn't drink,
Speaker 6: and uh, he said, to hell with that. But he
Speaker 6: got his buddy. He's not his buddy, his brother Jesse.
Speaker 6: Jesse tried to do to try to assist him with
Speaker 6: the you know, pushing back against the parole board, seeing
Speaker 6: if he can maybe get the sort of amendment to
Speaker 6: it or something, you know, some way around it. But no, no,
Speaker 6: they wouldn't. They wouldn't go for it. They went budge
Speaker 6: and he just kind of was like, all right, well,
Speaker 6: I'm gonna drink, so I'm not showing up to any
Speaker 6: more of these parole meetings because it's like I'm telling
Speaker 6: you right now, I'm drinking and you ain't let me
Speaker 6: do it. So like, but I'm gonna drink, so I
Speaker 6: don't know you know where I am. Come get me
Speaker 6: whenever you want to get me, I guess.
Speaker 7: Uh.
Speaker 6: And they just never got him, and uh that was
Speaker 6: kind of that was really all there was to it.
Speaker 6: I guess he just they just said to hell with it,
Speaker 6: didn't care. And then until one day they did care.
Speaker 6: When he was crossing the Mexican border with his wife,
Speaker 6: they were you know, he had his wife was the
Speaker 6: reason mentioned her. She was Mexican, So I mean, I
Speaker 6: believe the implication is here likely with visiting family or
Speaker 6: something along those lines. Now this also but this happened
Speaker 6: at the same time there was a nationwide hunt for
Speaker 6: John Doe two going on, which we didn't really touch
Speaker 6: on John Doe two. We kind of did a little bit,
Speaker 6: but I guess to kind of quickly touch on that.
Speaker 6: Literally every single person who saw McVeigh the day of
Speaker 6: the bombing saw him with another person. So that's that's
Speaker 6: basically the the the the short of that there like
Speaker 6: and but for some reason, the official narrative became old
Speaker 6: Timmy just blew it up all by himself. I mean,
Speaker 6: the all by himself was an asterisk, with the assistance
Speaker 6: you know, in a supportive role by Terry Nichols and
Speaker 6: you know, I guess sort of by you know, by
Speaker 6: by forty A who ended up being turning state witness.
Speaker 6: But anyways, I digress point being as they were looking
Speaker 6: for there was a period of time where the FBI
Speaker 6: actually went along with this John Doe two thing because
Speaker 6: every single eyewitness said, Hey, this guy was with somebody else,
Speaker 6: and this is kind of what do you look like?
Speaker 6: They described, you know, Okay, honestly it kind of really
Speaker 6: kind of a lot like me, shorter sockey guy, kind
Speaker 6: of darkish, but not like a not like a I mean,
Speaker 6: you could be a minority, like you know, ethnically ambiguous,
Speaker 6: I guess would be a good way to put it.
Speaker 6: But like so kind of tan, you know, so kind
Speaker 6: of tan, muscular, thick necks, you know, not not short.
Speaker 6: I mean, so he's not as short as I am,
Speaker 6: so he's probably like supposed to be five seven to
Speaker 6: five nine. But anyways, point being, is it? So this
Speaker 6: was a guy that was seen with him, there was
Speaker 6: another person seeing with him, seen getting out of a
Speaker 6: rider truck and everything with him. So another individual with
Speaker 6: with him. Now, you know, obviously the news gets out.
Speaker 6: They end up you know, getting John Doe one. Who
Speaker 6: is who's Timothy McVeigh John Doe two? They never find
Speaker 6: They go a couple of months of searching him officially,
Speaker 6: and uh and then they just the official narrative becomes, oh,
Speaker 6: he didn't exist. It was some sort of misremembering or
Speaker 6: some nonsense like that, which makes no sense, uh, because
Speaker 6: so the claim is that basically literally every eyewitness was wrong,
Speaker 6: but they were right about the identifying McVeigh because see
Speaker 6: what they were used to prove McVeigh was there legally speaking,
Speaker 6: so they will use their word to say that he
Speaker 6: was there, but not anything else about what they claim
Speaker 6: about the situation. So anyways, they sart, this is during
Speaker 6: the John Doe two hunt. Now you know this this
Speaker 6: Trinity Feller, he kind of looks he kind of looks
Speaker 6: a lot like, uh, like John Doe two. Like I said,
Speaker 6: he's he's a white guy. So in a lot of
Speaker 6: times John do two is sometimes is you know, described
Speaker 6: as being like Mexican or or Indian or Middle Eastern
Speaker 6: or but but uh, Trinity was a white guy. But
Speaker 6: he kind of had a little bit of a darker tan,
Speaker 6: you know, had some other similar features. There was reportedly
Speaker 6: the John Doe two had like a dragon tattoo on
Speaker 6: his left forearm or something, I believe, so he had
Speaker 6: that as well. He also was you know, I mean,
Speaker 6: this is kind of getting a little bit ahead of ourselves,
Speaker 6: but there were there is reason to believe that John
Speaker 6: to two may have been been hanging out when the
Speaker 6: employ of some bank robbers or had something to do
Speaker 6: with a group of bank robbers.
Speaker 7: Uh.
Speaker 6: So now we have this this guy who has a
Speaker 6: history of robbing banks coming back from Mexico at the
Speaker 6: height of one of the largest fugitive hunts matching this
Speaker 6: guy's description in all sorts of ways.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 6: And then all of a sudden they decide this is
Speaker 6: the time that they're gonna get them for this old
Speaker 6: parole violation. And then they take him from I believe
Speaker 6: this has happened in Mexico, I think, yeah, or not Mexico,
Speaker 6: but in Texas, Texas or California. I want to say
Speaker 6: it's California. I think it's California. And then they take
Speaker 6: him and they bring him to to an Oklahoma city
Speaker 6: detention facilities like a FED federal transfer facility or something.
Speaker 6: I think it's called, I forget, some sort of federal
Speaker 6: facility where they bring these people. That's where they So
Speaker 6: they end up bringing him for that. This is you know,
Speaker 6: bear in mind, this is during when they're having this
Speaker 6: big John Doe tooth Oak thing going on. You know,
Speaker 6: John Doe two was also a bear. I wanted to
Speaker 6: mention it was he was thought to have likely have
Speaker 6: fled the country. So him coming out of Mexico kind
Speaker 6: of a big deal, so they were on you know,
Speaker 6: top alert for this stuff at the time. So he
Speaker 6: ends up in Oklahoma. So, like I said, he ends
Speaker 6: up being put in a special like a high security
Speaker 6: part of the prison and ends up committing suicide. So
Speaker 6: obviously we see parallels kind of Epstein like despite being
Speaker 6: in like the you know, the protective unit or whatever
Speaker 6: it's like, somehow still managed to kill himself. Video goes
Speaker 6: disappearing all the like like that. So this is an
Speaker 6: area he shouldn't have been able to kill himself. Found
Speaker 6: hanging from a Edgejeet. He had cuts, bruises, burns all
Speaker 6: over his body. There were also two other inmates there
Speaker 6: who claimed they heard like screams and things of the like,
Speaker 6: kind of sounding like torture. And then you wouldn't believe it,
Speaker 6: but these two guys also died, so before it was
Speaker 6: all said done, those guys died as well. So they
Speaker 6: they one of them I believe was a drug overdose,
Speaker 6: and one of them got the old saddie SADS as
Speaker 6: well and decided to kill himself just like trying to do.
Speaker 6: It's just weird how SADS seems to be contagious like this. So, yeah,
Speaker 6: we have two we have trying to do himself dying,
Speaker 6: and then the two inmates who claim they heard sounds
Speaker 6: that sounded you know, something along the lines of struggles, torture, whatever.
Speaker 6: Those guys died. There also was, on top of all that,
Speaker 6: as if there wasn't enough death going around, we had
Speaker 6: a videographer who was an expert videographer who was how
Speaker 6: do I put this? Comparently the FBI, I guess, had
Speaker 6: come to him to ask for his expert opinion on essentially,
Speaker 6: if there's any way that the videos that were supposed
Speaker 6: to have been there and witnessed the death of Kenneth
Speaker 6: trying to do which weren't there. As I mentioned earlier,
Speaker 6: these things magically disappeared or weren't. I don't think they
Speaker 6: were recording or whatever. I forget the specifics of it.
Speaker 6: Either way, they got this expert videographer to look at
Speaker 6: this and go, hey, look at this, dude, Dad, Is
Speaker 6: there any way that it could have not recorded or
Speaker 6: not worked or whatever the reason was, for any other
Speaker 6: reason other than manual like one of us doing it, Like,
Speaker 6: is there something? Is there a way to explain this?
Speaker 6: That was kind of like a oopsies and they go no,
Speaker 6: go that his expert opinion is no. They were also
Speaker 6: really insistent that this none of this was written down
Speaker 6: or anything like that. This guy he finds, you know,
Speaker 6: he ends up contacting Jesse, who is Kenneth's brother, who
Speaker 6: happens to be a lawyer, and he tells him about
Speaker 6: all this that the FBI came to him for. He
Speaker 6: was willing to testify for for Jesse Uh. And this
Speaker 6: guy died too. He did have a heart attack, so
Speaker 6: to be fair, he could have just died of natural causes.
Speaker 6: But I don't know, you can never be schitzo enough.
Speaker 6: And we know about the old Church committee and the
Speaker 6: heart attack guns, so I don't know, it's not outside
Speaker 6: the realm of possibility. I mean, I don't know if
Speaker 6: I feel like they wouldn't brush off the heart attack
Speaker 6: gun for a situation like that, but maybe they would.
Speaker 6: McVeigh also contacted Jesse Trendo to tell him that he
Speaker 6: thought that the Uh that his brother, that Jesse, that
Speaker 6: Ken died as a result of FBI mistaking his brother
Speaker 6: for Richard Lee Guthrie, who you know a lot of
Speaker 6: people think may have been John Doe.
Speaker 5: Two.
Speaker 6: It gets a little bit confusing because it's it's not
Speaker 6: really John Doe two so much as I believe there
Speaker 6: are multiple John Doe two's, and I do think Richard
Speaker 6: Lee Guthrie probably was one of them. Which this is
Speaker 6: the as I was implying about the bank robbery things were.
Speaker 6: Julely Guthrie was one of the heads of the ar
Speaker 6: which was this group that you know, seemed to have
Speaker 6: connections to McVeigh and likely probably were the numerous John
Speaker 6: dotwo's assisting McVeigh with the bombing itself and part of
Speaker 6: a larger network that contributed to this. So anyways, Guthrie
Speaker 6: also died, by the way, committed suicide in jail, because
Speaker 6: you know, around the same time that Jesse or that
Speaker 6: Ken was in jail, Richard Lee was. Richard was as well,
Speaker 6: So it looks like I think it almost looks like
Speaker 6: a left not left hand not talking to the right hand,
Speaker 6: or just not even being aware of what's going on.
Speaker 6: I'm sure I don't know how information was dispersed, but
Speaker 6: they may not even have been aware of who exactly
Speaker 6: they were looking for. It may not have been perfect
Speaker 6: information dispersed amongst the Glowees. So you know, they may
Speaker 6: have very well thought that when they came across you know,
Speaker 6: Jesse or Ken trying to do that this was in
Speaker 6: fact Richard Lee Guthrie or someone you know matching description
Speaker 6: that was something close to them. I mean, they may
Speaker 6: not even have known the name. They may just known, hey,
Speaker 6: this guy fits him almost perfectly. But I mean, if
Speaker 6: you look at pictures of Richard Lee Guthrie and Jesse
Speaker 6: trying to look very much alike. Also, both of them
Speaker 6: are very similar to the descriptions of John Doe too. Anyways,
Speaker 6: you know, Richard Giddy Guthrie, like I said, he also
Speaker 6: died in prison. He had made a lot of claims
Speaker 6: saying he was kinda kind of blow the lid off
Speaker 6: of it. He was talking to a lot of journalists
Speaker 6: and stuff, and then he died in prison from the SADS.
Speaker 6: The interesting thing about the story though, is that the
Speaker 6: you know, I've always thought the the the real big
Speaker 6: takeaway from this is just kind of like, I don't know,
Speaker 6: there's something really poetic about you taking like a heroin addict,
Speaker 6: like bank robber, and like the fit, and the government
Speaker 6: just like murdering him and like and oh hey, look
Speaker 6: he screwed up he this guy actually, like you probably
Speaker 6: looked at this guy and thought that no one cared
Speaker 6: about him, that he means nothing, and he's just com No,
Speaker 6: his brother is a lawyer, and you just set him
Speaker 6: on a you know, war path to go after you
Speaker 6: hit the rest of his life.
Speaker 2: Right right, Jesse Jesse trying.
Speaker 6: To do is a badass, Yeah, which I do want
Speaker 6: to say. I actually keep forgetting to mention this to
Speaker 6: my audience. I'm streaming this to my audience right now,
Speaker 6: so I guess this seems appropriate. I was supposed to
Speaker 6: have him on on Sunday and I totally forgot to
Speaker 6: tell you guys that didn't happen. Felt bad because he
Speaker 6: was like I did really hint something that was gonna happen,
Speaker 6: and that fell through. So I'm just letting you guys
Speaker 6: know that was who was supposed to be. I'm really
Speaker 6: bad at keeping secrets. I should be more professional and
Speaker 6: stop like telling at a time when I have something big,
Speaker 6: but I just get too excited and I can't help
Speaker 6: but telling you guys.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 6: But he'll probably likely come back on it or come
Speaker 6: come on sometime in the future. It's just a there
Speaker 6: was a scheduling issue. And then I think you also
Speaker 6: going back to court and stuff. So he's a lot
Speaker 6: going on, and he's he's he's an old fella, so
Speaker 6: he's got to get a sleep.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's that's one guy I've I've wanted to
Speaker 2: get on my show as well, especially because we're both
Speaker 2: in the same neck of the woods. So it's it's
Speaker 2: something I could actually do in person, so so that
Speaker 2: that will probably have to happen at some point, so
Speaker 2: just to kind of keep it, keep it moving. What
Speaker 2: do you feel about the I believe it's the Elohim
Speaker 2: City or Elohim whatever, the the Elohim City connection. Basically,
Speaker 2: anyone who doesn't know that the white supremacist compound up
Speaker 2: in Elohim, Elohim whatever in Oklahoma is often cited as
Speaker 2: a planning hub for the bombing. Informant Carol Howe reported
Speaker 2: that residents, including Andreas Strassmere, discussed bombing federal buildings. Conspiracy
Speaker 2: theorists argue the government suppressed this link to avoid exposing
Speaker 2: a wider far right network or its own intelligence failures.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I am a proponent of the Eloheim theory. I
Speaker 6: do think there's a lot going on in the over
Speaker 6: there in Lloheim. It's kind of hard to get to
Speaker 6: read on exactly what's going on, but a yeah, there
Speaker 6: were that was the hub of a group of individuals
Speaker 6: the area, as I mentioned earlier. Whereas Richard the Guthrie
Speaker 6: being one of them, the individual ended up, you know
Speaker 6: very much bearing a very striking likeness to Kenneth trying
Speaker 6: to do they both ended up dying of the sads.
Speaker 6: So we have my fucking point was we're talking about Eloheim.
Speaker 6: So we then we have the you have Langen who
Speaker 6: you know, Donna Langen is that they became later known
Speaker 6: as because this is a truan right here. For funny enough,
Speaker 6: I believe one of the first ones who ended up
Speaker 6: being I don't know if they actually received it or
Speaker 6: they were wanting to receive it, but essentially receive a
Speaker 6: government funded a transition care or something like that. They
Speaker 6: were like one of the first ones to either receive
Speaker 6: it or be dude, I forget the specifics on it,
Speaker 6: but it's just kind of funny. This is one that
Speaker 6: was you know, thrown around as like landmark, you know, progressive,
Speaker 6: and it's like, you know that was a neo nasty
Speaker 6: bank robber, right like probably caused the Glama City bombing
Speaker 6: to some degree. But anyways, so that that Langan who
Speaker 6: is Man has an insane story. Two CIA spooks and
Speaker 6: their immediate family, their dad being the most notable one,
Speaker 6: their sister being the other one. I don't think, I
Speaker 6: don't really know what all she really did or anything
Speaker 6: of significance. Of dad was like the head dude in
Speaker 6: like Vietnam, the head CIA guy literally was there at
Speaker 6: like the height of the before and after and at
Speaker 6: the height of a coup, you know.
Speaker 4: So his.
Speaker 6: Like literally we have a little little little boy Langon
Speaker 6: playing with the other little kids in the palace that
Speaker 6: they would hang out at and uh, you know, then
Speaker 6: you know, one day comes along and oh, just killed
Speaker 6: a bunch of the dignitaries, and oh, okay, I guess
Speaker 6: we're not playing with little ling ling anymore, you know.
Speaker 6: Just oh, I guess we just murdered my best friend's
Speaker 6: you know dad, or it's just it's crazy. Like Langen's story,
Speaker 6: his dad was clearly involved in like Operation Phoenix and
Speaker 6: literally was seemed to be involved in a lot of
Speaker 6: the kill squad type stuff going on over there, but
Speaker 6: a big wig. He also saw the monks that lit
Speaker 6: themselves on fire, self immolated. He dude had a crazy,
Speaker 6: crazy early life. I think his dad died at a
Speaker 6: pretty young age and he he went through the Ringer.
Speaker 6: So we have the ar there. We have this weird
Speaker 6: I know, it's been referred to sometimes as like a cult.
Speaker 6: I guess you could say the loo he Heights or
Speaker 6: whatever up there that they kind of under the underfall,
Speaker 6: under the tutelage of Grandpa Mallar, who's been an FBI
Speaker 6: and formed in the past. I don't think he really
Speaker 6: you know, it's not like something he ever really hides from.
Speaker 6: So yeah, it's a it's an odd group of individuals.
Speaker 6: We have Dennis Mayhon who was along with Strasmeyer, who
Speaker 6: was another person up in the up in the neck
Speaker 6: of l Em City that you know, hepurportedly went with uh. Strasmeyer,
Speaker 6: Mayhon and Carol House supposedly cased out Hookuma City. Uh
Speaker 6: and uh, you know, I want to say multiple times
Speaker 6: into one of the buildings they cased was the Murra
Speaker 6: Federal building itself, the courthouse.
Speaker 2: Too, I believe, so, uh, yeah, I was, I was
Speaker 2: just about to bring that up, but that this is
Speaker 2: uh actually been brought up before as far as that
Speaker 2: building being a target, and I think I watched an
Speaker 2: interview somewhere where some people were talking and saying that
Speaker 2: for whatever reason, it just like didn't feel right or
Speaker 2: they they felt like a calling from God to not
Speaker 2: attack it, or so like some something strange like it
Speaker 2: was just like what whatever the reason was, that just
Speaker 2: never ended up happening. But these people did actually look
Speaker 2: at the same federal building, Uh yeah, to actually attack.
Speaker 6: I don't know how many years prior, but the exact
Speaker 6: same date, had you know, had a plot in place
Speaker 6: to do the exact same thing, ammonium nitrate bomb everything. Yeah,
Speaker 6: so weird stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, And so that that does kind of tie
Speaker 2: into the theory that this was kind of a false
Speaker 2: flag in order for one to discredit the militia movement,
Speaker 2: which was like massive in the nine d anyone who
Speaker 2: wasn't there or old enough at the time. Let's see
Speaker 2: I did have something. So let's see a ATF setup
Speaker 2: in Waco. Revenge misdirection, McVeigh stated. Motive retribution for the
Speaker 2: Waco siege is questioned, as the ATF officers in the
Speaker 2: Federal building sustained minimal damage and many agents were absent
Speaker 2: during the blast, which is incredibly weird. I mean, so
Speaker 2: this building had like tons of different federal offices and
Speaker 2: then supposedly the people being targeted were just not there
Speaker 2: that day.
Speaker 6: It was it was nine in the morning too. I mean,
Speaker 6: to be fair, I think I forget which book I
Speaker 6: was reading recently, because I've always looked for a figure
Speaker 6: and I probably should have committed to memory a little bit.
Speaker 6: But I want to say we were in the amount
Speaker 6: of agents they had. It must have been the Pritchard
Speaker 6: book because I just read that reason. But I want
Speaker 6: to say it was like in the not in single digits,
Speaker 6: but it was not in the teens. But I want
Speaker 6: to say it was maybe in like the twenties or
Speaker 6: less somewhere someone in that realm. So it wasn't like
Speaker 6: an obscene amount of people that worked in that office.
Speaker 6: So it's not like it's not crazy unbelievable they couldn't
Speaker 6: all be there. But it was nine to oh was
Speaker 6: it nine oh two, I think when the explosion happened
Speaker 6: or something, So it's like it was nine in the morning,
Speaker 6: So it's like, I don't know, I would assume in
Speaker 6: the nineties, so I assumed that, like, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 6: even if you are a super secret agent, I assume
Speaker 6: there would be at least some desk workers and stuff
Speaker 6: doing something at nine in the morning in the office,
Speaker 6: so right, you know, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and this this was a pretty a pretty
Speaker 2: busy federal building, like there there was a lot going on.
Speaker 6: Oh well, what I mean is that that's refer specifically
Speaker 6: to the ATF. There were plenty of people who got
Speaker 6: hurt and stuff in the other way. Yeah, but there's
Speaker 6: the ATF was the target. None of them were in
Speaker 6: the building. So yeah, but there were plenty of agents
Speaker 6: government agents, but like things like I R S and
Speaker 6: shit like that, but like the proposed target, the ATF. Yeah,
Speaker 6: none of those guys. Somehow this was super big deal
Speaker 6: for Timmy to enact as revenge. But he didn't even
Speaker 6: bother to do the intel to see if anyone would
Speaker 6: even be there, you.
Speaker 2: Know, right, And I do find that kind of strange,
Speaker 2: like all of a sudden, So there there were many reports.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if this is true or not, but
Speaker 2: supposedly there were reports of agents getting text messages or
Speaker 2: not text messages, but phone calls, beepers. These these sorts
Speaker 2: of notifications to not come in, which what what? What's that?
Speaker 2: And then one thing I wanted to ask you about
Speaker 2: was the bomb squad truck. Uh do you have an
Speaker 2: opinion on that?
Speaker 7: Uh?
Speaker 6: One second, I actually have something for you that I
Speaker 6: think you would appreciate. Where the fuck is it?
Speaker 4: Um?
Speaker 6: Let me see? Is that right?
Speaker 4: Or no?
Speaker 6: This is area show? Just haven't said? All right, here
Speaker 6: you go. Uh you were just speaking about the beeper?
Speaker 6: Here you go? Right? Is it up right now? In prispally? Yeah,
Speaker 6: that's all right, it's going.
Speaker 7: Plase suspicion of fire warning is bolstered to by this
Speaker 7: man we found, who spoke to us anonymously at his
Speaker 7: wife's request. She worked in the Moral Building, which was
Speaker 7: the local headquarters for the ATF, the Bureau of Alcohol,
Speaker 7: Tobacco and Firearms, the federal agency most directly involved in
Speaker 7: catching bombers.
Speaker 8: I spotted the ATF officer in a jacket that signified
Speaker 8: it ATF. First now, and he just came out and
Speaker 8: told me that the ATF wasn't in the building that day.
Speaker 8: They had been tipped by their pagers not to come
Speaker 8: to work, which I was flabbergasted, you know, I didn't
Speaker 8: ask this guy this question. This is just what came
Speaker 8: out of his mouth.
Speaker 7: Did he go further to explain why they were told
Speaker 7: him not to come to work.
Speaker 8: They were tipped by their pagers of the bomb threat
Speaker 8: that morning.
Speaker 6: Yep, So they were told there was a bomb threat
Speaker 6: this morning to the not come in and and so
Speaker 6: why they didn't come.
Speaker 2: In And that's that's really strange. So the for anyone
Speaker 2: who might not know there there were reports of a
Speaker 2: bomb threats, Yeah, yeah, bomb threats. And not only at
Speaker 2: that building, there was a couple of around the city.
Speaker 6: The fire chief, I believe, if I remember correctly, I
Speaker 6: want to say it was something like the assistant fire
Speaker 6: chief or something that ended up being the one that
Speaker 6: copped up to it. But I can't remember why where
Speaker 6: they had heard it initially, but I don't know if
Speaker 6: it was JD. Cash or Pritchard or whoever it was,
Speaker 6: went to go talk to them and then they were
Speaker 6: like and they were initially like, Nope, that that's not
Speaker 6: a thing that happened, and uh, the ope that we
Speaker 6: didn't hear any sort of news about keep an eye
Speaker 6: out for nobody or nothing like that. And then uh,
Speaker 6: then I guess. I know they went down the hall
Speaker 6: and ask somebody else and it was like the you know,
Speaker 6: the number two guy there in the office or wherever,
Speaker 6: and he was like, yeah, I'm not lying for anybody.
Speaker 6: Like no, that happened, and he went on record and
Speaker 6: was like, yeah, no, like we were told to keep
Speaker 6: an eye out for these people like that there's some
Speaker 6: some bad humbreries coming through or whatever. I mean, obviously
Speaker 6: they didn't say that, but you know what I mean,
Speaker 6: the idea that they were told to like it. It
Speaker 6: was even weirder too, because it was like keep an
Speaker 6: eye out for something or it was something weird along
Speaker 6: those lines. It was also like a weird like kind
Speaker 6: of weird ass kind of warning. Is that like that's useless,
Speaker 6: But either way, it's a it's still uh yeah, it's
Speaker 6: it's it's bizarre. Yeah. And you're talking about the bomb
Speaker 6: squad and the uh I mean that that is an
Speaker 6: interesting component. I think this plays into the idea of
Speaker 6: there being two rider trucks because the bomb squad. There
Speaker 6: were claims that people saw bomb squad trucks, particularly like
Speaker 6: over around the courthouse. You know, they were claims that
Speaker 6: people saw like what looked like people with almost like
Speaker 6: I want to say, they were like almost like a
Speaker 6: little scanny things like looking around. These are all things
Speaker 6: that seemed to match up with someone almost looking for
Speaker 6: I don't know, like a tracking device. So they maybe
Speaker 6: had a vehicle or something. Because one of the things
Speaker 6: thrown around. This was probably some sort of sting. But
Speaker 6: this is where the idea of multiple rider trucks come along,
Speaker 6: and there is research. I forget the minutia of why
Speaker 6: that seems to prove it, but this comes down to
Speaker 6: the ins and outs of times and eyewitness reports and
Speaker 6: when they actually got the the the rider truck. I
Speaker 6: want to say, it's like there were eyewitness claims they
Speaker 6: saw a rider truck before the purchase of the rider
Speaker 6: truck that ended up blown up, so that this would
Speaker 6: imply there was another rider truck. But what would be
Speaker 6: the purpose of a second rider truck? Why would you
Speaker 6: need it? I don't know. Maybe it was too small,
Speaker 6: that was one that's thrown around one. Maybe one was
Speaker 6: too small or whatever they had to get a different size.
Speaker 6: I don't know. But one theory that I like is
Speaker 6: let's just say that this was some sort of ATF
Speaker 6: sting or something like that. I mean, there was what
Speaker 6: was it a I think it was called deep holemite
Speaker 6: or something. There was some sort of atf thing going on,
Speaker 6: not to I want to say it was shortly before
Speaker 6: that or something where they were looking into rider truck
Speaker 6: bombs type of explosions or whatever. I totally what was
Speaker 6: I even talking about? Totally fucking I'm spacey today, dude.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, No, you're good. The second rider truck, the
Speaker 2: bomb squad.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So the idea being, if this
Speaker 6: was some sort of sting, you would have a you
Speaker 6: would have a tracking device in it. The idea of being, oh,
Speaker 6: on that day you have let's just say John Doe
Speaker 6: too with some sort of government agent and he and
Speaker 6: let's say he's in the truck with McVeigh and I
Speaker 6: don't know, let's say McVeigh is the bad Obviously we
Speaker 6: can go you know, he's a you know, garment asset,
Speaker 6: but whatever. Let's say he's a through and through battie
Speaker 6: and he he's you know, driving the truck. And then
Speaker 6: the how this is, let's say, how this is supposed
Speaker 6: to go is they pull up to the spot and
Speaker 6: then you know, timmy fa gets out and John Doe
Speaker 6: two pulls out of the truck and then he freaking
Speaker 6: then he he pulls around, he yanks it up, and
Speaker 6: then you're under arrest and you've been stopped, and like,
Speaker 6: now we have this cool moment in front of the courthouse,
Speaker 6: and now we get a you're like, oh, they stopped
Speaker 6: the bomb and you know, he you know, there really
Speaker 6: wasn't it was, you know, it was a fake bomb
Speaker 6: or something like that. Well, it looks like perhaps maybe
Speaker 6: that's not the case, and maybe there was actually a
Speaker 6: an initial rider truck that had the uh a little uh,
Speaker 6: you know, the obligatory little tracker for this thing. And
Speaker 6: let's who's to say they didn't take that one out
Speaker 6: for a joy ride somewhere else that that morning, and
Speaker 6: between the the slew of different John Doe two that
Speaker 6: we have, maybe they didn't help facilitate this. They didn't
Speaker 6: take the Feds out for a while goose Chase while
Speaker 6: Timothy McVeigh shows up at a different time and a
Speaker 6: different building with a different explosive device. It kind of
Speaker 6: seems like a good way to kind of I don't know,
Speaker 6: kind of thrillial switch aaroo on the fetti poos if
Speaker 6: this was some sort of sting. This is just one
Speaker 6: that's thrown around a lot. I think it's a I mean,
Speaker 6: it kind of matches up with the reports of the
Speaker 6: bomb squads and then the multiple rider truck theories.
Speaker 2: So yeah, right, and I do find it weird this
Speaker 2: bomb squad truck. Supposedly it was supposedly written off as
Speaker 2: some guy just doing personal errands, like he just took
Speaker 2: a bomb squad truck out to run like normal personal errands.
Speaker 2: What sense does that make? I mean, yeah, it so
Speaker 2: to keep it moving one one thing. This is a
Speaker 2: bit more tinfoil or or maybe it's not. I actually
Speaker 2: don't know. And so I wanted to ask, what what
Speaker 2: credence do you feel that any of this had to
Speaker 2: do with the Clinton Whitewater scandal. Is there is there
Speaker 2: any credence to this?
Speaker 6: I I'll be honest, I've not looked into it enough trually.
Speaker 6: I mean, this comes up a lot, people always bring
Speaker 6: it up. I don't really because this comes down to, uh,
Speaker 6: they were files, and I know I believe I vaguely
Speaker 6: recall there were maybe one, maybe two claims of some
Speaker 6: sort of like it looked like fed's were maybe taking
Speaker 6: files or taking things, whether those files can maybe the air,
Speaker 6: but I mean the idea that they would be rooting
Speaker 6: through some things or procuring taking some stuff, whether it
Speaker 6: be explosive or whatever, unexploded ordnance, because that's another part
Speaker 6: of the story that we haven't really touched on. I'd
Speaker 6: I don't know, it's not that crazy. I mean the
Speaker 6: documents I find to be kind of like it in
Speaker 6: the easy culprit and almost like kind of seems too easy.
Speaker 6: I mean, maybe it's right, I just I also feel
Speaker 6: like I don't know. I know, it was the nineties,
Speaker 6: so I mean, they probably weren't completely digitized, but like,
Speaker 6: I don't know, you would assume if it was any
Speaker 6: sort of important government document, they would have backups in
Speaker 6: other places, right, Oh, I mean, I don't. I just
Speaker 6: it just it never really seemed to have a lot
Speaker 6: of explanatory power for me, So yeah, I don't. I
Speaker 6: don't know. The idea that like they would do it
Speaker 6: to take out some documents just seems a little ridiculous
Speaker 6: to me. But I don't know, right, it's just the
Speaker 6: one everyone people always bring up. But I just think
Speaker 6: it's like almost like a just trying to shoot to
Speaker 6: shoehorn the Clintons into it, which like, I mean, you
Speaker 6: don't really which I will say, I guess if you
Speaker 6: are someone who's trying to make this like a sexy
Speaker 6: like Clinton list thing or something thing, it doesn't fit
Speaker 6: neatly into that. I mean there is that there, but
Speaker 6: not in that juicy like you know, like, oh, here's this,
Speaker 6: Oh here's this person that Clinton killed, and you're like,
Speaker 6: I think it's more in direct than that. I mean,
Speaker 6: there is the Merrick Garland did go visit with Hillary
Speaker 6: Clinton before he went to go start his trial. So
Speaker 6: literally the the you know, the thing to know here
Speaker 6: is that he flew So this is Merrick Garland, who
Speaker 6: was our attorney general. This was like kind of like
Speaker 6: one of his like really breakthrough breakout cases for him.
Speaker 6: This was like really kind of where he cut his
Speaker 6: teeth right here was on right this thing. I forget
Speaker 6: what his role was, but this is you know, it's
Speaker 6: kind of up and comer. This is what made him.
Speaker 6: This is why he got hooked up. Let's be real.
Speaker 6: But he had to fly back to DC and then
Speaker 6: fly back all within the course of twenty four hours
Speaker 6: to have a in person meeting with Hillary Clinton. Discuss
Speaker 6: saying what we don't know. We know this because Richard
Speaker 6: Booth Foya the White House visitor logs, and so we're
Speaker 6: able to confirm that they visited. So he flew up
Speaker 6: from Oklahoma to DC and then flew back within the
Speaker 6: course of twenty four hours to visit with Hareley Clinton
Speaker 6: before the biggest case of his entire life to talk
Speaker 6: about for his legal coverage. I guess you could say,
Speaker 6: of what was her husband's you know, I guess penultimate
Speaker 6: probably a moment of his. I mean, he even said
Speaker 6: himself that if it wasn't for the Oklahoma City bombing,
Speaker 6: I don't think I would got re elected. So yeah,
Speaker 6: a lot going on there, So I really do. I
Speaker 6: think she likely probably did pull him aside and probably
Speaker 6: tell him like, Hey, this is these are the these
Speaker 6: are the beats, this is what we're doing. This is
Speaker 6: what's happening here. You know, don't call her outside the
Speaker 6: lines or there will be issues. See, you got your orders,
Speaker 6: have a good one.
Speaker 1: Like you know.
Speaker 2: So for anyone who doesn't know exactly what the Whitewater
Speaker 2: scandal is, it was in nineteen ninety two and it
Speaker 2: is considered to be one of the granddaddy of Clinton scandals,
Speaker 2: at least in the early years, back when they were
Speaker 2: still located in Arkansas. They surfaced during Bill Clinton's bid
Speaker 2: for presidency. The first time. It's centered on the financial
Speaker 2: contributions by Bill and Hillary Clinton into a real estate
Speaker 2: entity known as Whitewater Development Corporation during his time as
Speaker 2: an Arkansas state official. Eventually, the Justice Department and Independent
Speaker 2: Council launched investigations. The outcome was that neither Bill nor
Speaker 2: Hillary faced prosecution for their involvement in Whitewater, but their
Speaker 2: public statements about the matter and the handling of documents
Speaker 2: that went missing and later reappeared, came under intense scrutiny.
Speaker 2: Their partners in the real estate investment were Jim McDougall
Speaker 2: and his then wife, Susan. Jim McDougall was convicted of
Speaker 2: fraud charges for making bad loans, and he died of
Speaker 2: heart disease in a Texas prison. Susan was convicted of
Speaker 2: fraud in connection with obtaining a three hundred thousand dollars
Speaker 2: federally backed small business loan. She refused to answer grand
Speaker 2: jury questions in the Whitewater affair and was held in
Speaker 2: contempt of court, spending eighteen months in jail. Bill Clinton
Speaker 2: pardoned her before he left the White House in early
Speaker 2: two thousand and one. The idea that this was done
Speaker 2: solely for the purpose of getting rid of those documents,
Speaker 2: I mean, that seems absurd, but I have seen people
Speaker 2: make that claim.
Speaker 6: I mean, maybe they did along the way, but like
Speaker 6: I know, I just also I just find it, I don't,
Speaker 6: I mean dubious that they would just be stored there
Speaker 6: then disappear. I don't know, maybe I haven't really tooking
Speaker 6: the time to take it. It just seems that, like
Speaker 6: it's just a weird focal point for people. I don't know,
Speaker 6: maybe that's more to it than I think. It's just that,
Speaker 6: like that's always the one that people always like, oh
Speaker 6: my god, this And I'm like, as someone who spent
Speaker 6: a shitload time looking in this didn't really come up right,
Speaker 6: And I.
Speaker 2: Don't think it's like super important. But because it does
Speaker 2: come up a lot, I did want to ask about
Speaker 2: it because to me, it seems like a big nothing burger.
Speaker 6: You know, I've had the same thought too, Like I
Speaker 6: almost I almost did an episode where we kind of
Speaker 6: covered those type of things where it was like those
Speaker 6: type of questions, because it is like there are a
Speaker 6: few those You're like, oh, you're an Oklaha city, but
Speaker 6: what about this? And you're like, these are questions that like,
Speaker 6: but then you're actually someone who's like a researcher, you
Speaker 6: don't really You're like, that's not really something we put
Speaker 6: a whole lot of much into so right, I mean,
Speaker 6: I don't really even know really many people who have
Speaker 6: serious reachers who put a ton into that that I'm
Speaker 6: aware of. I have seen any sort of threads, articles,
Speaker 6: anything along that. I've seen it casually mentioned here and there,
Speaker 6: but never anything that's put any sort of serious oomph
Speaker 6: behind it that I'm aware of. I'd be happy to
Speaker 6: see if anyone out there knows it, and feel free
Speaker 6: to tag me into it, because I do get this
Speaker 6: question quite a bit, so it would be cool if
Speaker 6: I had something more to come with.
Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, that's just exactly what they want is
Speaker 2: nobody to look into it. But so another thing I
Speaker 2: wanted to bring up real quick was, and this kind
Speaker 2: of ties back into Yeeky is the inside explosives. Supposedly
Speaker 2: experts like the Air Force Bridgidier, General Benton K Parton
Speaker 2: and psychiatrist Samuel Samuel T. Cohen argued that the damage
Speaker 2: to the Mariah Building couldn't have been caused solely by
Speaker 2: a truck bomb made of a money nitrate and fuel oil.
Speaker 2: They suggested additional explosives were planted inside, implying a more
Speaker 2: sophisticated operation than a Cavey and Nichols could have managed alone.
Speaker 2: So what's what's your position on the multiple bombs or
Speaker 2: I guess the bomb inside the building versus outside. Where's
Speaker 2: your stands?
Speaker 6: I mean, I'm kind of I lean towards bombs in
Speaker 6: the building. That's kind of where I'm at. I mean,
Speaker 6: we had with Ruth Graham and Jane Schwab, I think
Speaker 6: I'm I'm prone to swap their last name, so it
Speaker 6: might be it might be the other way around. So,
Speaker 6: but those are two individuals that you know had FBI
Speaker 6: three oh two's where they claimed they saw individuals in
Speaker 6: the parking garage who looked like they were planting. And
Speaker 6: they described it in different ways, but essentially it sounds
Speaker 6: like they're describing someone with like wires and like a
Speaker 6: putty and blocks and sounds like someone putting Sea four.
Speaker 6: So there were a couple of people making claims like that.
Speaker 6: I mean, you know, obviously the bombing analysis, like you
Speaker 6: pointed out, I mean there is I mean when it
Speaker 6: comes to the bombs, I mean, like I said, there
Speaker 6: was Lashawn that said that, you know, the idea of
Speaker 6: it blowing out is supposed to in there's you know,
Speaker 6: there's not the only person who's made those sort of
Speaker 6: claims about seeing things along those lines. There was the
Speaker 6: degree to which they were being crazy about not letting
Speaker 6: people back in like part of Yeeky's stories that he
Speaker 6: was insistent on coming back and trying to take pictures
Speaker 6: and Tanya went with him. They got shoot off from
Speaker 6: the site. He was really focused on the daycare for
Speaker 6: some reason. So what he was trying to look at,
Speaker 6: I don't know. One thing thrown out frequently is looking
Speaker 6: for maybe unexploded ordinances or something along those lines. So yeah,
Speaker 6: this is something thrown in along a lot. I mean,
Speaker 6: I by no means it's not something that I'm like,
Speaker 6: I'm like beholden to in any way. I wouldn't be
Speaker 6: like it would in no way is like integral to
Speaker 6: any sort of beliefs I have about the Ogalencity bombing.
Speaker 6: If it's not the case, but I do lean towards
Speaker 6: that probably being the case. It just seems to be
Speaker 6: i'd just between the claims of seeing people in there,
Speaker 6: I mean some some of the other you know, things
Speaker 6: that seem to imply that there were claims that you know,
Speaker 6: show things that imply maybe bombs inside. I mean, there
Speaker 6: is even the ATF did stop the uh, the search,
Speaker 6: multiple the rescue efforts multiple times for unexploded ordinance, their
Speaker 6: claims of unexploded ordances in the wreckage. So this is
Speaker 6: usually passed off as being oh, the ATF was improperly
Speaker 6: storing explosives there. So but then a lot of people
Speaker 6: will say, oh, that's because they at C four or whatever.
Speaker 6: So you know, kind of it's kind of you know,
Speaker 6: a pick your own story here. But either way, I
Speaker 6: mean I think you look at it, it doesn't it's
Speaker 6: a not a uniform, you know, explosion pattern. It does
Speaker 6: seem to be kind of odd. There's a lot, I mean,
Speaker 6: I'm not gonna get into the weeds of you know,
Speaker 6: the specifics. I mean, I've read a Bond show on
Speaker 6: the other go into bombing analyison. So I tend to
Speaker 6: lean towards there were bombs in the building, but like,
Speaker 6: it's not something I can prove, and like, I don't
Speaker 6: know it wouldn't You wouldn't blow my world away if
Speaker 6: it was otherwise. But I do think there were probably
Speaker 6: bombs in the building.
Speaker 2: That's kind of where I sit, especially with some of
Speaker 2: the things that Yiki had had said and his insistence
Speaker 2: on trying to get back to where the daycare was.
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess it's possible that something else could
Speaker 2: have been there, But why would he be so interested
Speaker 2: in heading back, specifically to get a picture of that
Speaker 2: area that that always struck me as odd? Is exactly?
Speaker 2: Why did he want to get back there so so
Speaker 2: bad and also take a camera with him? You know
Speaker 2: that that was just something that always struck me as odd.
Speaker 2: Real quick, before we get out of here, because I
Speaker 2: don't want to keep you too long. I did say
Speaker 2: that I did have another, uh another clip real quick,
Speaker 2: and it is a yeeky clip. So let's let's go
Speaker 2: ahead and run that real quick before we get out
Speaker 2: of here.
Speaker 4: Well, I'm away from you, mister Sash. You know the
Speaker 4: reason I believe it difficult from me? It sush And
Speaker 4: I'm afraid that I'm a.
Speaker 5: Fucking that I can leave you because you'll meet him.
Speaker 4: And you know that I know that I can, and
Speaker 4: we not too be fucked up if you can't be
Speaker 4: right here. They're gonna told you that I never told
Speaker 4: you want to change.
Speaker 5: She will and I know I never could know.
Speaker 6: That case I nobody has as good as you on
Speaker 6: the US.
Speaker 5: Can you stay.
Speaker 4: Us?
Speaker 6: They're gonna told you that I'll never sold.
Speaker 5: You, you know, and I know I never could.
Speaker 1: What else?
Speaker 4: Case I know nobody else as good as you?
Speaker 6: Used to.
Speaker 4: Say.
Speaker 9: As soon as they loaded him into the car, he
Speaker 9: got very upset, started to cry a little bit and said, Tanya,
Speaker 9: it's not what they're saying. It is they're not telling
Speaker 9: the truth the line about what's going down there.
Speaker 2: So that was one edit. There are several several around.
Speaker 2: I was trying to find another one. I'm pretty sure
Speaker 2: it's the uh the one. Let's see, do you have
Speaker 2: one pulled up?
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 6: I just it was as you were playing at it,
Speaker 6: I was like, here's one more thing. I just felt
Speaker 6: like it would be kind of fun to just kind
Speaker 6: of drop on the audience without really spending a ton
Speaker 6: of time explaining, just because it's a fun little mic
Speaker 6: drop that we really didn't cover it.
Speaker 2: Word.
Speaker 6: This is a This is a letter from Tim Thinkvey
Speaker 6: to a says, you're a little excerpt so like you're
Speaker 6: not catching all of it, but I don't know, just
Speaker 6: kind of take a little wonder what this is about.
Speaker 6: Let's go and read it says what I learned next,
Speaker 6: both from the briefings and from the questions in private
Speaker 6: talks included one, we would be helping to see a
Speaker 6: fly drugs into the US, to fund many covert operations.
Speaker 6: Two military consultants were to work hand in hand with
Speaker 6: civilian police agencies to quote unquote quiet anyone who was
Speaker 6: deemed a security risk quote unquote in parentheses, we would
Speaker 6: be government paid assassins. Three many other details. To verify
Speaker 6: these last two, see the enclosed article or watch again
Speaker 6: the movie Lethal Weapon. It also gives you new insight
Speaker 6: on things like Waco, et cetera. They were murdered by hitmen.
Speaker 6: That is from our illustrious, illustrious, illustrious Timothy McVeigh right
Speaker 6: there to his sister. And this is years before though
Speaker 6: goll City bombing. So what this was about, right?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 6: Weird stuff, guys, Weird stuff is there all names, all
Speaker 6: this crazy stuff Timothy Vays talking about for no reason whatsoever.
Speaker 2: Right, And this this is actually kind of where I
Speaker 2: wanted to wrap things up real quick without spending too
Speaker 2: much time on it. Like you said, but what is
Speaker 2: your opinion as far as McVeigh being an asset, whether
Speaker 2: it's CIA, FBI. I mean, there was him being interviewed
Speaker 2: by Jolly West, and there's like all of these other
Speaker 2: things that we could just keep going on forever. So
Speaker 2: where is where is?
Speaker 5: Where?
Speaker 2: Where are you when it comes to this sort of topic.
Speaker 6: Oh, I'm pretty out there. This is one of the
Speaker 6: ones I am. Yeah, I think he was a glowy dude.
Speaker 6: I think he that dude glows. I mean, I don't know,
Speaker 6: it's it's just I mean, how that what I just
Speaker 6: pointed is what we're looking at right now. That little
Speaker 6: ex served from his letter to his sister. I mean,
Speaker 6: there's that. There's other things. He claimed his first lawyers
Speaker 6: as well, something similar to this, who then later then
Speaker 6: told Stephen Jones is like a main defense attorney that
Speaker 6: like you, You're gonna totally have a completely different like
Speaker 6: outlook on like the legal system and like the whole system.
Speaker 6: After this and like there's just there's multiple things. He
Speaker 6: made claims to his was it David Paul Hammer, I
Speaker 6: think his his you know, his one of his buddies
Speaker 6: in a in jail, you know, Timmy mcvade made claims
Speaker 6: to him that, you know, essentially along these lines. He
Speaker 6: dude even wrote a whole book about it, which is
Speaker 6: probably one of the next ones I'm up reading, is
Speaker 6: about like what really happened to him being kind of
Speaker 6: a glowy agent and what really happened he you know,
Speaker 6: supposedly McVeigh gave his hotel all to David Paul Hammer,
Speaker 6: and so that's supposedly the real story for those who
Speaker 6: are interested, according to David Paul Hammer, which who is
Speaker 6: kind of actually a noted con artist. So bear all
Speaker 6: that in mind. But you know, so I don't know,
Speaker 6: I actually do kind of, you know, with me saying that,
Speaker 6: though I kind of lean towards I haven't read that yet,
Speaker 6: but from my understanding of that book, I kind of
Speaker 6: leaned towards his sequence of events, and I think he
Speaker 6: might have been telling the truth that Neil McVeigh did,
Speaker 6: you know, kind of tell him all this stuff, because
Speaker 6: it does match up with things he was telling other
Speaker 6: people as well. So, yeah, it's just a bizarre thing
Speaker 6: to tell someone years before the bombing that you know,
Speaker 6: and this guy did you know this is something we
Speaker 6: didn't tell the audience, but he you know, Tim McVay
Speaker 6: was in the military. He went to a desert storm
Speaker 6: or you know, or golf or whatever. I forget, always
Speaker 6: mix up the names, but one of those ones over
Speaker 6: in Iraq. He got out, went to go join special forces.
Speaker 6: The official story is that he failed and he got
Speaker 6: sent and he end up them becoming disillusioned with the military,
Speaker 6: ended up getting out short not too much longer after that,
Speaker 6: according to him, and in this letter, he the real
Speaker 6: story is that no, they pulled him aside and said, hey,
Speaker 6: we need to be mister super secret agent man. We
Speaker 6: need you to be sheep dipped. We need you to
Speaker 6: on paper quit the military and kind of create this
Speaker 6: legend as a disaffected veteran and uh, you know, you
Speaker 6: you're gonna go around the country kind of make a
Speaker 6: name for yourself, you know, kind of hobnob with all
Speaker 6: these uh major figures in the you know, the right wing,
Speaker 6: and uh, that's that's what you're gonna do. And then
Speaker 6: lo and behold, he ends up doing that. So it's
Speaker 6: a weird thing to lie about, especially since that ends
Speaker 6: up being the story of your life. This is a
Speaker 6: guy who was kind of forest scumping it with like
Speaker 6: all of the major right wing figures of that time,
Speaker 6: Like he really was. If you read ablerration in the
Speaker 6: heart Rate Land of the Real and which really does
Speaker 6: focus a lot on that period between him getting out
Speaker 6: of the military and him, you know, obviously the bombing,
Speaker 6: It is like this dude was dude was doing. Dude
Speaker 6: was on some ship. Dude, dude was on one. Uh
Speaker 6: So like this dude, this dude was working I believe
Speaker 6: for Caltech. Uh he when he got out, he was
Speaker 6: in the Guard, which is pretty which is notable if
Speaker 6: you're concerned about sheep dipped, because that would be logistically speaking,
Speaker 6: that's great for sheep dipping. It also makes it so
Speaker 6: now you are in a different legal status to where
Speaker 6: you are able to do domestic operations because you are
Speaker 6: in the Guard as opposed to active duty. You are
Speaker 6: a subsidiary of your state government now as opposed to
Speaker 6: your the federal government. So it puts you in a
Speaker 6: different status to where you can do domesticated things. This
Speaker 6: no longer is an issue where we run into like
Speaker 6: old laws. We're like, no, we can't be having the
Speaker 6: military operating domestically like those sort of laws.
Speaker 2: So yeah, well, and didn't it seem like when McVeigh
Speaker 2: was in prison, didn't it seem like he was just
Speaker 2: kind of waiting, like to be taken care of, Like
Speaker 2: he was so relaxed.
Speaker 6: With David Paul Hamer. That's one thing I was talking
Speaker 6: about that was he did seem to claim to him
Speaker 6: and others that Yep, no, I'm going to be good.
Speaker 6: They're get me out of here. So this is where
Speaker 6: a lot of the people who claim that like, no,
Speaker 6: he didn't really die and he's actually Paul, weisa Paul
Speaker 6: that's in some FBI district somewhere, which they do look
Speaker 6: quite a bit alike. This is where you get those
Speaker 6: theories from because he seemed to think that. Now, I
Speaker 6: will admit I think that Timothy McVay thinks or thought
Speaker 6: he wasn't gonna die. But I I'm of the opinion
Speaker 6: he probably died. I mean, I wouldn't be like astounded
Speaker 6: if they if they like pulled some crazy Houdini glowy stuff.
Speaker 6: But I kind of am a little little doubtful. I
Speaker 6: think they're just like, Yo, this guy is a liability,
Speaker 6: let's get rid of him, right.
Speaker 2: I mean, I wouldn't be surprised. But on the other hand,
Speaker 2: it's like, I don't know what the reason for keeping
Speaker 2: him alive would be, Like it would just be easier
Speaker 2: to just get rid of him, and because then that whole,
Speaker 2: that whole loose end is tied up and then you
Speaker 2: don't have to worry about it from there. So it
Speaker 2: just it just seems likely that it's easier for them
Speaker 2: to take care of them. It just I don't see
Speaker 2: why they would want to keep him alive or throw
Speaker 2: him into witness protection. But maybe this goes like even
Speaker 2: way deeper than we know, and you know, he was
Speaker 2: like super like way more important. I don't know. I
Speaker 2: don't think so, so I'm kind of with you on that,
Speaker 2: but uh who knows. But on that, let's uh, let's
Speaker 2: wrap this up and uh let everyone know where they
Speaker 2: can find you. What what you have coming up, what
Speaker 2: you want people to go check out, whatever you want
Speaker 2: to shout out.
Speaker 6: Uh yeah, I have the No Wa Jose podcast. I'm
Speaker 6: on YouTube all the major add pod Catchers Rumble as well. Uh,
Speaker 6: like I said, I kind of run three show. I
Speaker 6: mean it's all falls in our nowe jose. A branding
Speaker 6: is a little bit confusing, I know, but I kind
Speaker 6: of run three shows. I guess one's kind of the
Speaker 6: normal no wa Jose, the solo stuff. But then I
Speaker 6: did the other two shows, which already dead. It was
Speaker 6: my weekly show on Tuesdays at nine thirty pm. There's
Speaker 6: a call in show, and then I also do a
Speaker 6: daily show Monday through Friday, like a kind of a
Speaker 6: normal daily show. Take the weekends off all that, but
Speaker 6: usually we do those around ten am Eastern. Kind of
Speaker 6: just talk about current events, some old stuff too, so
Speaker 6: we do. It's just kind of a hangout. We kind
Speaker 6: of like a research environment hang out environment as well,
Speaker 6: kind of a combination of it too. So it's a
Speaker 6: fun time, good place to hang out, good place to chill.
Speaker 6: If you guys have stuff that you you know, research stuff,
Speaker 6: you'll be digging to share it there and we'll go
Speaker 6: over it together. But yeah, we have a lot of
Speaker 6: fun over there. You can follow me on Twitter at
Speaker 6: twer gang Jose.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I hope to see some of you guys over there soon.
Speaker 6: We do have a good time, and yeah, it's gonna
Speaker 6: be a fun year. I'm looking forward to where things go.
Speaker 6: So I appreciate you having me on, Jacob, And yeah,
Speaker 6: I don't think I really have anything else in the
Speaker 6: form of plug anything crazy going on, man, I do.
Speaker 6: I'm getting ready to do a pretty big appearance soon,
Speaker 6: but in the way of actual guess or anything. I think,
Speaker 6: as I mentioned, they're trying to do one, I'll get them.
Speaker 6: I think I'm gonna get him scheduled sometime soon, but
Speaker 6: I don't have a date yet, So any any sort
Speaker 6: of big guess or anything like that.
Speaker 4: I know.
Speaker 6: We have some more of your stuff that should be
Speaker 6: dropping public here soon, some more of those false Memory
Speaker 6: Syndrome Foundation episodes. I have a few of those behind
Speaker 6: the paywall too, for any of those who any of
Speaker 6: the non pores in the audience over here.
Speaker 2: Awesome, But yeah, thanks thanks for coming on, dude. I
Speaker 2: definitely want to get you back. I would like to
Speaker 2: get you in Austin at some point to come on
Speaker 2: and talk about Gladio and stuff. I think that really
Speaker 2: is like one of these points that kind of you know,
Speaker 2: just keeps coming up, you know, it's one of the
Speaker 2: junctions and the Spider Web, so but definitely go check
Speaker 2: everything out. I've made sure to put links in the
Speaker 2: episode description.
Speaker 6: For by the way, real quick, sorry, I mean every
Speaker 6: ship it was cal Span, not cal Tech. I fucked
Speaker 6: up my bead alright, Sorry.
Speaker 2: No worries, So make sure you go check out Jose
Speaker 2: down in the episode description and as far as Rise
Speaker 2: to Liberty you can go also in the episode description
Speaker 2: Rise to Liberty dot com slash links that pulls up
Speaker 2: my master my master link. It shows all the platforms.
Speaker 2: I have now started doing shows every Tuesday and Thursday.
Speaker 2: They will be continuous shows. Tuesdays are more of a
Speaker 2: planned show, Thursdays are more of a lax. This is
Speaker 2: what I found kind of on the internet, but it's
Speaker 2: all kind of in the same realm of stuff. It
Speaker 2: will tend to be scheduled right after the Morning Dump
Speaker 2: because I actually like watching the Morning Dump and I
Speaker 2: don't want to stream until after that, so it's a
Speaker 2: good way for us to not conflict or whatever.
Speaker 1: And uh.
Speaker 2: Other than that, make sure and go hit the like,
Speaker 2: hit the subscribe, hit the share, leave a comment, all
Speaker 2: of these things. It helps the show out more than
Speaker 2: you could possibly imagine. The big tech overlords have made
Speaker 2: sure that we will not grow. So this is entirely
Speaker 2: dependent upon all of you guys to be able to
Speaker 2: help us get these shows out there, to get the
Speaker 2: followers and everything. And hey, it's free. So if you
Speaker 2: found this valuable at all, go ahead, like I said,
Speaker 2: hit the like, subscribe, leave a comment, thumbs up, follow
Speaker 2: all of these different things, and the more people that
Speaker 2: end up doing that, the better content I can ultimately
Speaker 2: end up bringing people in the future and in the
Speaker 2: near future. So other than that, there's no more updates
Speaker 2: as far as I know, except for the next stream
Speaker 2: will actually be Sunday, not Tuesday, so that's just going
Speaker 2: to be a chill Monday morning with Rise to Liberty,
Speaker 2: So come hang out, chill out, check that out. Other
Speaker 2: than that, let's see here. I think I got everything
Speaker 2: closed up on my end now. The one last thing
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask you, Jose real quick, was what
Speaker 2: is the one thing out out of everything, out of
Speaker 2: all the theories and everything, what do you think the
Speaker 2: most important aspect of Oklahoma City has been or is.
Speaker 6: Hmm the most important aspect of Oklahoma City. I think
Speaker 6: I can really give a what's the most important.
Speaker 2: Or what's something that like people should like take away from.
Speaker 6: HM take away? I think I think it's kind of
Speaker 6: thought I had recently, especially where it's it's like our age.
Speaker 6: I think a lot of people are these tendencies, so
Speaker 6: like and I get this a lot. They go, oh,
Speaker 6: this happened nineteen ninety five, blah blah blah blahaha about
Speaker 6: and You're like, that's within my lifetime, Like this is
Speaker 6: a major world changing event. This is like this is
Speaker 6: like shaped our future, Like this is something that like
Speaker 6: formed the reality we live in, Like it's it's this
Speaker 6: is a major event. So like, uh, and this is
Speaker 6: kind of I know there's something too that uh being
Speaker 6: aware of this and like, uh, I don't know. It's
Speaker 6: almost like you're we're kind of working backwards and deprogramming
Speaker 6: ourselves of the nonsense out there. So I think it's
Speaker 6: something worthwhile. It's almost like you're getting to the root
Speaker 6: of the programming and like kind of seeing uh, seeing
Speaker 6: these zeros and ones behind the matrix kind deal. So
Speaker 6: I think it's a worthwhile for people to kind of
Speaker 6: dig into it, especially you know, if you have anything
Speaker 6: in common with us. I mean, I don't know where
Speaker 6: what in our like a thirties so in that rough
Speaker 6: age span, I don't know. It just this is a
Speaker 6: thing that's really affected your life a lot. This is
Speaker 6: a precursor to like along the nine eleven stuff we
Speaker 6: saw a Patriot Act. I mean, this is just general
Speaker 6: the you know, strategy attention that led stuff that led
Speaker 6: up to nine to eleven. I know, I just think
Speaker 6: there's a these are also as I mean, I mentioned
Speaker 6: Merret Garland earlier, so it's like, I mean, you see
Speaker 6: who's who's the other one. There's another attorney former attorney
Speaker 6: general who plays a part in this is more than
Speaker 6: the trying to do side of things. He was helping
Speaker 6: with the cover up. I can't think he was a
Speaker 6: fast and furious guy. I can't think of his name
Speaker 6: right now, the black dude whatever. But anyways, so you know,
Speaker 6: we see these people that these swamp creatures that it
Speaker 6: kind of got their start, kind of made their bones,
Speaker 6: and I just think it's kind of one of those
Speaker 6: ones they act like, oh this means nothing, this is
Speaker 6: so long ago, but you think that the characters involved
Speaker 6: and it's like really a lot of those same people
Speaker 6: are still around and if not them, they're like direct
Speaker 6: proteges and likely things are the same. Exact protocols and
Speaker 6: practices are in place in most things. So this is
Speaker 6: also really good, like rosettas known for understanding how things
Speaker 6: are done. Because this was the nineties, it's not that
Speaker 6: long ago that it takes a while for these guys
Speaker 6: to change their mannerism. So yeah, I also think it's
Speaker 6: a one that I think they I don't know, I
Speaker 6: feel like they're a little bit particularly sloppy and in
Speaker 6: certain interesting ways. I've brought this up a few times
Speaker 6: that I think there was some sort of interesting crossroads
Speaker 6: of like where technology was and then also where it
Speaker 6: wasn't at that time that made it so that like
Speaker 6: it kind of had a blind spot for the FED.
Speaker 6: So where they were kind of sloppy, it was kind
Speaker 6: of like they didn't anticipate, like the the tech was
Speaker 6: there to document things, but the tech wasn't there to
Speaker 6: collate in network things quite like we have the ability
Speaker 6: to now, so the ability to document and track that
Speaker 6: stuff there, but now we're at the time where now
Speaker 6: we're able to collectivize this information and organize it in
Speaker 6: meaningful ways. So whereas we didn't have that back then,
Speaker 6: but we had the means to hold onto the information,
Speaker 6: and I don't think they were thinking about the future
Speaker 6: and like, oh, we need to be extra careful not
Speaker 6: be a sloppy So there was a lot of stupid
Speaker 6: stuff that they were able to get away with back
Speaker 6: in the days, like Kennedy and stuff like that, because
Speaker 6: it's kind of like, you know, but there was a
Speaker 6: lot less things tracking your every little move. So I
Speaker 6: don't know, I just think it's I just find it
Speaker 6: really interesting story that it doesn't really get enough shine
Speaker 6: and has a lot of explanatory power for the spooky
Speaker 6: world we live in.
Speaker 2: Hell. Yeah, I think that's a perfect note to end on.
Speaker 2: Once again, Thanks everyone for tuning in. Make sure it
Speaker 2: hit the like, subscribe, share, comment on your way out.
Speaker 2: Check out Jose's stuff. Jose hang out in the back
Speaker 2: for just a seconds. We wrap this up everyone else.
Speaker 2: Until next time, Stay free, my friends,