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Speaker 2: Mum, why did they call it Scottish cheese?
Speaker 3: It's cottage cheese, honey. And I'm not sure.
Speaker 2: Did the dogs in other countries speak different languages?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I think so.
Speaker 1: When when we get there, well, we've got to fix
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Speaker 2: Is it the man from Geneva?
Speaker 5: Not Geneva, he's from a Viva.
Speaker 3: Oh there's a van now.
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Speaker 5: Oh hi there, twenty twenty three. Ali here to say
Speaker 5: that I was under the weather this week and I
Speaker 5: felt like hot, soggy garbage.
Speaker 3: So we're revisiting this really lovely and.
Speaker 5: Curious and artistic and naturalistic episode because it's also January
Speaker 5: and you need a calendar, and somebody, this guest now
Speaker 5: sells calendars of his work, so.
Speaker 3: That is a big update. They're really really gorgeous.
Speaker 4: I have one.
Speaker 5: His website is linked in the show notes, including a
Speaker 5: link straight to his calendars, which will sell out soon,
Speaker 5: so get one before they're gone. They're really really beautiful
Speaker 5: and his work is awesome and inspiring. Okay, more with
Speaker 5: him now. Oh hey, it's that older guy at the
Speaker 5: beach watching the sunset who collaps when it's done. Ali
Speaker 5: Ward back with a very very giddy episode of ologies
Speaker 5: up top. I want to let you know this guest
Speaker 5: has a website. Now parah herpetologica dot com. The link
Speaker 5: is in the show notes, so if you want to
Speaker 5: be looking at any of his photography while we talk,
Speaker 5: you can go to that or to his Instagram, which
Speaker 5: is in the show notes. Also, you can buy his
Speaker 5: prints on his website. Thank you to Kyle Sleeper of
Speaker 5: now Labs for putting that together. And the guest also
Speaker 5: has a Patreon. It is linked in the show notes.
Speaker 5: You can directly support his work and see all kinds
Speaker 5: of unreleased photos and behind the scenes, so go to
Speaker 5: his website, follow him on Instagram, and support him at Patreon.
Speaker 5: Okay on with the intro. Thank you to everyone who
Speaker 5: keeps Ologies up among the science goliaths in the podcast
Speaker 5: charts by making sure you're subscribed and by rating, by
Speaker 5: of course reviewing the show. I read all of the reviews.
Speaker 5: I pick a hot, steamy fresh one each week to read,
Speaker 5: and this one was from Plexo nine to one, who
Speaker 5: says Ologies makes me feel like I'm in the best
Speaker 5: classroom discussion on a rainy day with a sub hi brace.
Speaker 5: I appreciate that. Also, Hello to Majestic Worm and why
Speaker 5: do I know you need a nickname? Who both drive
Speaker 5: delivery trucks and are tuning in, so let's keep these
Speaker 5: good vibes roll in with a periology And it just
Speaker 5: did not have a specific ology. I looked at every
Speaker 5: quarter of the internet for one, it didn't exist. But
Speaker 5: this guest is someone you heard on the Black af
Speaker 5: and Stem episode we did last month, and I love his.
Speaker 3: Work so much.
Speaker 5: I just wanted to know more about his wildlife macrophotography process.
Speaker 5: He has so many fans who are ologies listeners. So
Speaker 5: I asked Patreon what ology this would even be, and
Speaker 5: Zultan and Sarah both suggested nature picture taking ology. Rob
Speaker 5: Hover offered wildlife portraitology. Emily's dad and Rachel de guff
Speaker 5: both said close up ologist. But then patron Ellen Silva
Speaker 5: suggested a periology from the Latin apaio, meaning to open
Speaker 5: or reveal, and Ellen wrote of this guest's work that
Speaker 5: these photos certainly reveal a world of detail. Also bonus.
Speaker 5: I was like, yes, pario an aperture of the camera
Speaker 5: also opening different spaces both physically and culturally for more
Speaker 5: people to be included. So yes, a periology. It is
Speaker 5: thank you, Ellen, A word was coined just for this episode.
Speaker 5: Never before, who have we done that on ologies. I'm
Speaker 5: usually very strict that theology exists elsewhere, but this one
Speaker 5: is just a very rare special occasion, and I'm thrilled
Speaker 5: that there is now a periology. So we're going to
Speaker 5: be chatting about the magnificent art and science, which you
Speaker 5: can see on his website again Paraherpetologica dot com linked
Speaker 5: in the show notes side note. A macrophoto is technically
Speaker 5: one in which the size of the subject on the
Speaker 5: film or the image sensor is life size or larger,
Speaker 5: so his artwork is larger than life scientifically speaking. His
Speaker 5: Instagram at Reels on Wheels is just a gallery of
Speaker 5: pensive praygnantises and dead on stares from beetles, the cutest
Speaker 5: spiders with the most cartoony eyes and more. And as
Speaker 5: a lifelong bug lover, I was hooked on his work
Speaker 5: as soon as I saw it, and he now has
Speaker 5: thirteen thousand followers on Instagram, most of them just from
Speaker 5: the last few weeks. It's climbing so fast I wouldn't
Speaker 5: be surprised to see him break like one hundred thousand
Speaker 5: in the next few months, So follow him on there.
Speaker 5: And also, by chance, this episode coincides perfectly with Disability
Speaker 5: Pride month as we celebrate the July nineteen ninety passing
Speaker 5: of the Americans with Disabilities Act. So let's celebrate that
Speaker 5: with a glass of iced tea and listen to his
Speaker 5: process his relationships with animals, why we should appreciate the slithery,
Speaker 5: the scaly, the buggy, the leggy creatures, lenses, cheap gear.
Speaker 3: Hacks, which spiders are the cutest.
Speaker 5: His macro photography mentors, the best place to photograph inverts,
Speaker 5: and more.
Speaker 3: Also, you may.
Speaker 5: Hear some beautiful chirping in the background, and you have
Speaker 5: to listen to the whole episode to find out what
Speaker 5: kind of bird it is. Just think of it as
Speaker 5: a lovely hello from nature. So get ready for your
Speaker 5: eyes and ears and world to open with the wisdom
Speaker 5: and the creativity of wildlife photographer and the world's first
Speaker 5: ever a periologist. Jay Debonroe Online aka Joseph Saunders. I'm
Speaker 5: so excited to talk to you. I feel like you're
Speaker 5: my auntsel Adams. You're like my Annie Leaviss, like my
Speaker 5: favorite photographer. So this is kind of a big deal.
Speaker 5: I need to I'm gonna have to play it much
Speaker 5: cooler than this because I'm like seriously so struck to
Speaker 5: talk to you. So how long have you been doing photography?
Speaker 5: Did you like the outdoors and nature first or did
Speaker 5: you like photography first.
Speaker 4: I've always been a herber at heart. I grew up
Speaker 4: in San Antonio, Texas. Also, just a quick aside, I'm
Speaker 4: actually I was originally born in California.
Speaker 7: Oh.
Speaker 4: I don't know if you're from California, but I realized
Speaker 4: I Shira out that way. I was born in Tinker
Speaker 4: Air Force Base in Fairfield.
Speaker 5: No way, I know exactly where that is. How long
Speaker 5: were you out in California before you moved to Texas?
Speaker 4: Not long enough to have any awesome memories. I think
Speaker 4: I moved from California when I was about three, so
Speaker 4: I really don't remember any of it. My upbringing really
Speaker 4: resides mostly in San Antonio, in a little bit in Phoenix, Arizona,
Speaker 4: but so back to San Antonio. So San Antonio. Chelsea
Speaker 4: one of the other members of Blackefe and Stem, she
Speaker 4: studies an oles, and that was my spark animal was
Speaker 4: the green and ole. Yay, Like the green and ole
Speaker 4: got me completely obsessed with reptiles, amphibians and all that stuff.
Speaker 4: They're everywhere in San Antonio, green and oles and Mediterranean
Speaker 4: geck gos, Like I go back to my brothers who
Speaker 4: still lives there, and like I cannot wait to get
Speaker 4: there because I just start like searching around his house
Speaker 4: looking for a oles so I can so my nieces
Speaker 4: and nephew.
Speaker 5: Of course, growing up in the desert in Arizona, in
Speaker 5: San Antonio, that must have been like the best kind
Speaker 5: of animal to see these wizards.
Speaker 4: So like the crazy thing is and I slap myself
Speaker 4: every time it comes to mind, But I also have
Speaker 4: to remind myself of the reasons to be grateful. I
Speaker 4: was not really involved in herpetology or a better culture
Speaker 4: in any kind of way when I lived in Arizona.
Speaker 4: I went to high school in Arizona. My mom got
Speaker 4: stationed at Blue Air Force Base. I'm so grateful for
Speaker 4: it because the friends that I had there, they were
Speaker 4: the generation that followed a lot of the conflict between
Speaker 4: the War on drugs and the history surrounding that in Oakland, California. Oh,
Speaker 4: and a lot of them left Oakland like seeking a
Speaker 4: better life, and they taught me so much about black
Speaker 4: life that I had no idea because one I was
Speaker 4: raised by white parents my biological mother is white and
Speaker 4: also in the military, So I mean we're like completely
Speaker 4: cut off from like the realities we think, you know,
Speaker 4: our entire bubble is just air force. That was my
Speaker 4: coming to reality moment, was my friendship with them, and
Speaker 4: I'm so grateful to them to this day because you
Speaker 4: know that they opened me up to learn so much
Speaker 4: more about blackness, about the justice issues that we are
Speaker 4: facing now. And there's no way that I could have
Speaker 4: been the person that I am now without them.
Speaker 5: So Joseph moved to Phoenix at fifteen, and it was
Speaker 5: there that this community many people who were driven out
Speaker 5: from Oakland and the Bay Area because of the racial
Speaker 5: underpinnings of this so called war on drugs, and these
Speaker 5: people opened his eyes to his own culture. And he
Speaker 5: also recalled a close friend who, when they were just teens,
Speaker 5: was brutally assaulted by two police officers after just walking
Speaker 5: into a convenience store in a white neighborhood. And Joseph
Speaker 5: says that that was a moment when he really had
Speaker 5: to face the reality of the disparities between how black
Speaker 5: people and white people see the issue racism through their
Speaker 5: own lenses, and his white family didn't always understand. But
Speaker 5: he made friends who did you know.
Speaker 4: The great thing is is while the military are growing up,
Speaker 4: but you know a military brat. It did grant me
Speaker 4: by best friend who I very very firmly say is
Speaker 4: my brother, because we were in kindergarten together and we've
Speaker 4: been together ever since. He was the other black person
Speaker 4: that I knew that actually liked animals and the weird
Speaker 4: ones as much as I did. Like, we were in
Speaker 4: kindergarten together and we would have library days where we
Speaker 4: would go from a classroom over the library and he
Speaker 4: and I would basically barter over which one of us
Speaker 4: got to read the Snake Book, the Spider Book, the
Speaker 4: Shark Book, and it was like, okay, you get this
Speaker 4: one this week, and you know, you take this one
Speaker 4: this week, and then we would switch and we read
Speaker 4: the same ones over and over again, like I can
Speaker 4: still picture like some of the photos, like one of them,
Speaker 4: I think the spider book had had a trap war
Speaker 4: spider on the cover of it. I'm so grateful for
Speaker 4: that because them they're my face. And we go back
Speaker 4: to San Antonio every every year and spend a week
Speaker 4: together with my three nieces and my nephew and you know,
Speaker 4: that's my family. That is my very very black family.
Speaker 4: And also now I have black af and stem and
Speaker 4: that is you know, I have my family, and now
Speaker 4: I also have this amazing black naturalist community. Yeah. So
Speaker 4: as much as my relationship with my relatives on my
Speaker 4: mom's side, as hurtful as that really truly was, I
Speaker 4: have the support. Yeah, I have the foundation that I
Speaker 4: need to be able to go forth and continue.
Speaker 5: So you you started liking animals maybe before photography.
Speaker 4: Oh yes, so I had to. I had a hop
Speaker 4: on my own Facebook page real quick, because I didn't
Speaker 4: actually start taking photos with any sort of seriousness until
Speaker 4: twenty fourteen.
Speaker 5: Really, yep, really I wouldn't. I would have thought that
Speaker 5: it was a lot, because you're really very good at it.
Speaker 5: What what was it that that started? Did you start
Speaker 5: taking iPhone picks or did you did you start by
Speaker 5: getting a camera and just taking it out, you know,
Speaker 5: whenever you go looking for herbs.
Speaker 4: So I'm almost ashamed of this just because of my
Speaker 4: circle of influence. Now, what got me into this is
Speaker 4: that I found out about people who breathe various like
Speaker 4: high end morphs of ball pythons when I was in
Speaker 4: college and I that's what I do. Now, that's that's
Speaker 4: my own business. I'm regularly employed. I have my own employer,
Speaker 4: but my my own small businesses. I reread ball pythons.
Speaker 5: Oh my god.
Speaker 4: So so what I what I found out was I
Speaker 4: was like, okay, so how do I actually take good
Speaker 4: photos of my animals to make sure that you know,
Speaker 4: I'm you know, doing good advertising in this kind of stuff.
Speaker 4: And someone's like, you know, you need to a decent camera.
Speaker 4: And then somebody said one time that you know, you
Speaker 4: need to get a decent macro lens because baby snakes
Speaker 4: are small. You know, you got to make sure that
Speaker 4: you know, you get the right equipment. I was like,
Speaker 4: all right, cool. So I got an old Canon T
Speaker 4: five I back in twenty thirteen, I think, and I
Speaker 4: think it's set on the shelf for a good long
Speaker 4: while because I didn't know what to do with it.
Speaker 4: And after someone mentioned the macro lens, I got the
Speaker 4: cannon one hundred millimeter and I went and I was
Speaker 4: running around the park and playing with it, and I
Speaker 4: realized that I could fit a cricket's head in the
Speaker 4: entire frame many cricket and my mind just exploded it
Speaker 4: and I've just been going completely nuts ever since. I
Speaker 4: was just like, this is too much fun. Bugs are everywhere,
Speaker 4: this is so it's not that it's easy, but it's accessible,
Speaker 4: Like you don't have to hike miles to find some
Speaker 4: sort of a rare species. It's what can you find
Speaker 4: in your own yard and how can you present it
Speaker 4: in such a way to change someone's mind and opinion
Speaker 4: about something that most people just like stomp on without
Speaker 4: you know a second and thought, yeah, I mean that
Speaker 4: ties back into my earlier impression as as a herber Is.
Speaker 4: You know, A big part of it was the recognition
Speaker 4: that this being before I guess being more becoming more
Speaker 4: confident and understanding of my blackness. I've been disabled since birth.
Speaker 4: I have spine of vivida, so I've used a chair
Speaker 4: all my life. So I've always felt, you know, some
Speaker 4: I've always felt empathy and some connection when it came
Speaker 4: to reptiles for a sense of not fitting in, for
Speaker 4: a sense of kind of persecution, not being enough. So
Speaker 4: I really attached on to reptiles kind of for that reason,
Speaker 4: like snakes, especially because I would grow up as a
Speaker 4: kid and watching like documentaries and you know, the various
Speaker 4: facts and David Attenborough talking about reptiles and this and
Speaker 4: that and this is a horned lizard. I'm very beautiful too.
Speaker 4: What I always stood ou to me most was a
Speaker 4: few things. One, how tough scales are. You know, they
Speaker 4: basically are just this form of armor that allows them
Speaker 4: to be able to withstand bites from their prey and
Speaker 4: or other predators, and you know, so on and so forth.
Speaker 4: It gives them this this layer of protection. Another thing
Speaker 4: is being that you know, they can go weeks, maybe
Speaker 4: months without any water months, you know, if they have
Speaker 4: an adequate source of food, since they get about seventy
Speaker 4: percent of their water from their food that they actually eat,
Speaker 4: and they survive it. You know, you can put them
Speaker 4: in like like sidewinders in Arizona or horned vipers, stick
Speaker 4: them out in the middle of the desert, and they're fine,
Speaker 4: pretty good, pretty pretty, pretty pretty good. And I looked
Speaker 4: upon them as an example of as an example of resiliency,
Speaker 4: you know, an example of how to be tough, of
Speaker 4: how to survive, of how to not only not just
Speaker 4: survive just based off of what other people perceive as
Speaker 4: your limitations, but also how to survive when everybody else
Speaker 4: is against.
Speaker 5: You if you're feeling overlooked or underestimated. Right, yeah, how
Speaker 5: beautiful is that? The answer is very beautiful.
Speaker 4: So you know that connection for me and reptiles is
Speaker 4: I think that's why it's been the one thing that
Speaker 4: I've always that has just never gone away. Like you know,
Speaker 4: I used to love sports. I still love sports, but
Speaker 4: I mean I haven't touched the basketball since twenty twelve.
Speaker 4: Spend my time playing ball when I was in my twenties,
Speaker 4: But I just keep coming back to reptiles and now
Speaker 4: the same kind of relationship and perspective still applies when
Speaker 4: it comes to invertebrates because nobody gives it damn about them.
Speaker 4: You know, they get into the house and people it's
Speaker 4: some big thing for people to they think that it's
Speaker 4: some great thing that they don't kill in that they
Speaker 4: would catch them and release them. I was like, why
Speaker 4: that should be the norm.
Speaker 5: Yes, there's so few that can actually hurt you. There's
Speaker 5: so many shower spiders that are just they just want
Speaker 5: to hang out in the corner, right, just let them out.
Speaker 5: But the what you do, the way that you photograph
Speaker 5: these creatures, the number one, your field of focus is
Speaker 5: so shallow that what is so crisp it draws you in.
Speaker 5: It's just magnetic because what's so crisp, your eyes just
Speaker 5: like feasts on and then the backgrounds are so obscured,
Speaker 5: they're just dreamy and it's so easy to focus on
Speaker 5: the subject because that really super shallowed.
Speaker 3: Up the field.
Speaker 5: And what is that?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 5: What kind of gear do you have to bring? Do
Speaker 5: you have a tiny, tiny little studio it's like a
Speaker 5: seamless that you put them on?
Speaker 4: Or are they like?
Speaker 5: How how are you doing? How are you capturing these images?
Speaker 4: So? I mean a lot of what I do is
Speaker 4: is actually in the field. You know. Sometimes if I
Speaker 4: find something that's around the house, I'll ticket inside, so
Speaker 4: I catch it, wait till it settles down a little bit,
Speaker 4: it gets a little bit desensitized to me, and then
Speaker 4: I'll proceed with photographing it. Otherwise it is it's in
Speaker 4: the field.
Speaker 5: Has it taught you a lot about the ecology because
Speaker 5: you tend to see the same animals in certain.
Speaker 4: Spots, Yes, you know, And that's it's funny that you
Speaker 4: mentioned that because they within black af and stem I'm
Speaker 4: like the undisciplined, like low credential variety out of all
Speaker 4: of them, They're all like working on PhDs and this
Speaker 4: and that. I'm like, I got a bachelor's degree in sociology.
Speaker 5: At this point, I was like, that doesn't mean you
Speaker 5: don't know your shit, and he was like, yeah, no, no, no,
Speaker 5: I know I'm kidding, but he was like polite about it.
Speaker 4: It's my hobby and what I do it does. It
Speaker 4: does teach me a lot about the ecology. Like I
Speaker 4: can name just like about every species of jumping spider
Speaker 4: in the state of Oklahoma. Definitely all the herbs. I
Speaker 4: can identify all of the frogs and toads in Oklahoma
Speaker 4: by ear. And you know, this is just things that
Speaker 4: you pick up as a habit because you do this
Speaker 4: all the time. If you don't learn this doing what
Speaker 4: you do is you're trying not to.
Speaker 5: What kind of apps or field guides do you tend
Speaker 5: to rely on more?
Speaker 4: Well, I have a few field guides now, most of
Speaker 4: them are herbs I have. I have a couple of
Speaker 4: bird guides now, I think I have the Sibly bird
Speaker 4: guide and I have a like a general insect guide
Speaker 4: as well, But I honestly I use bugguide dot net
Speaker 4: a lot. Okay, Yeah, that's a really good source when
Speaker 4: you're actually looking, when you have photos and you're trying
Speaker 4: to identify, you know, whatever, the the invertebrate that you
Speaker 4: found is like the biomass and biodiversity of arthropause is
Speaker 4: just so insane that you you have to be patient
Speaker 4: with yourself. You can't expect, you know, this level of
Speaker 4: expertise and this you are really diving into a specific
Speaker 4: family or genus of a group of animals, and this
Speaker 4: identifies stuff often. Yeah, and that's perfectly fine because and
Speaker 4: so people will correct you. And that's that is part
Speaker 4: of the culture, is that you accept correction. There's nobody
Speaker 4: that gets really too upset about it, and it's just like, no,
Speaker 4: it's that and it's like, oh, okay, thanks.
Speaker 5: Joseph has met a ton of naturalist friends online, but
Speaker 5: he does most of his shooting in Oklahoma City, where
Speaker 5: he lives now. He told me that, well, Oklahoma prides
Speaker 5: itself on being the reddest of the Red States. One
Speaker 5: great thing about Oklahoma is that a lot of people
Speaker 5: don't realize that it has, per capita, the most historical
Speaker 5: black towns than any other state. And you may, of
Speaker 5: course be familiar with the history of Tulsa's Greenwood District,
Speaker 5: which is also known as Black Wall Street, and that
Speaker 5: was the site of the Tulsa Race Massacre of nineteen
Speaker 5: twenty one. And he told me that Oklahoma's diverse population
Speaker 5: is partly the result of the trail of tears that
Speaker 5: forced indigenous people off their lands and other traumatic relocation
Speaker 5: practices from the Old South. But he went to college
Speaker 5: there and says at the time he was eating and
Speaker 5: sleeping and breathing basketball. But in all that time, maybe
Speaker 5: only had three black teammates. And I asked why he
Speaker 5: thinks that was.
Speaker 4: And I mean, black people are severely underrepresented in Wiltria basketball,
Speaker 4: at least they were at the time that I was
Speaker 4: in college. It's now been a while. Anytime that you
Speaker 4: look at something, if there is a lack of representation,
Speaker 4: it's pretty safe bet to at least start to consider
Speaker 4: that there's some discrimination involved there. And it's a matter
Speaker 4: of kind of diving down into root cause analysis. So
Speaker 4: like with my case, like with spin and bifida, I
Speaker 4: know black children are much more likely to have spina bifida,
Speaker 4: and this normally is a result of the medical neglect
Speaker 4: of black mothers. Spaina bifida is something that occurs due
Speaker 4: to a deficiency in full of acid that happens in utero.
Speaker 4: Very avoidable, and it's not avoided when mothers expecting mothers
Speaker 4: aren't taken care of, which is why that it happens
Speaker 4: more often in black children because Black women don't have
Speaker 4: as good as access to adequate medical care.
Speaker 5: Right, Okay, side note that is tragically a gross understatement.
Speaker 5: The Centers for Disease Control released a report in September
Speaker 5: twenty nineteen, and it opened with this bold and very
Speaker 5: heartbreaking statement quote, Black American, Indian and Alaska Native women
Speaker 5: are two to three times more likely to die from
Speaker 5: pregnancy related causes than white women, and this disparity increases
Speaker 5: with age. I'm sorry that their language is not more
Speaker 5: inclusive of non binary and transmen who can have babies,
Speaker 5: but it continues most pregnancy related deaths are preventable. Racial
Speaker 5: and ethnic disparities in pregnancy related deaths have persisted over.
Speaker 4: Time, it says, and also, I mean when you go
Speaker 4: to just the histories of redlining and the getilization of
Speaker 4: America also playing into medical care and the proper medical
Speaker 4: care also of these disabled children, what then become the
Speaker 4: opportunities and the accessibility of these children to find adaptive
Speaker 4: sports opportunities. My mom was in the military, so I
Speaker 4: mean I didn't have to deal with a lot of
Speaker 4: those struggles. I mean, obviously something happened with the care
Speaker 4: that my mom received, even from the military standpoints as
Speaker 4: far as medical care is concerned. But growing up ultimately
Speaker 4: middle class, she was able to find resources and outlets
Speaker 4: for me that centered disability. Now is the next part
Speaker 4: where well, I mean I had learned to center blackness
Speaker 4: for myself. It's not something that I could have ever
Speaker 4: learned from her, And so now it's a matter of
Speaker 4: dealing with, you know, both of those things. Because I
Speaker 4: am black and I'm a paraplegic all the time. I
Speaker 4: can't be one or the other before the other. I
Speaker 4: am both at all times.
Speaker 5: What was it like for Joseph to get to know
Speaker 5: the folks from Black AF and STEM who've been personally
Speaker 5: making my timelines one million percent better since they launched
Speaker 5: Blackbirds Week in late May. How did you become introduced
Speaker 5: to them? What was that like for you?
Speaker 4: It is this this whole thing, you know, I'm actually
Speaker 4: one of the newer members of Black EF and stem.
Speaker 4: I think I came in around February. It was Alex
Speaker 4: Troutman that brought me in. So he had he had
Speaker 4: a post on Facebook about not looking like a scientist
Speaker 4: because he's black, and he kind of, you know, dove into,
Speaker 4: you know, this long piece about now I'm still a scientist,
Speaker 4: you know, black. This ain't got nothing to do with it.
Speaker 4: I'm a black scientist, and that went viral. I wasn't
Speaker 4: friends with him, but I saw that and I was like, hey, hell,
Speaker 4: we should be friends. And then he hit me back,
Speaker 4: He's like, did you know about you know, this group me?
Speaker 4: And I was like, I had no idea, what's going on? Yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 4: And so he let me in and then I realized,
Speaker 4: you know, there was some familiar faces in there, like
Speaker 4: Carl Geyton, the Crock guy. I think I've been friends
Speaker 4: with Carl actually longer than any of them, and Karna
Speaker 4: Knewsome and you know other people that I was already familiar, Like,
Speaker 4: you know, I've just been hanging out in here, and
Speaker 4: I just now getting the invitation. What was going on?
Speaker 5: That must have felt like walking into the best party ever?
Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely, And then you know, and the momentum has
Speaker 4: just obviously has just increased like exponentially since that point
Speaker 4: that I came in. I mean, initially it was just
Speaker 4: this lively place where we could just kind of set
Speaker 4: down all of the armor that we kind of carry
Speaker 4: with us into the field in the other predominantly white spaces,
Speaker 4: and like everybody here is black, and everybody here those animals. Yeah,
Speaker 4: this is great. This is the place that I've been
Speaker 4: trying to get to all my life.
Speaker 5: I did an episode about code switching with doctor Nicole Holliday,
Speaker 5: who's a linguist, and I imagine the code switching dealing
Speaker 5: in the scientific world must be exhausting. I feel like
Speaker 5: already so many people feel like in science they can't
Speaker 5: bring their true selves. But it must be such a
Speaker 5: relief to fully be in a group of people who
Speaker 5: have such similar experiences and you can feel like you
Speaker 5: can be you know, completely authentic.
Speaker 4: With Yes, definitely, I mean, code switching is a part
Speaker 4: of it. I think my favorite thing about it that
Speaker 4: I've thought about is honestly his hair. So you know,
Speaker 4: there's very many different types of hair, and so we have,
Speaker 4: you know, various zoom meetings, and we're having like zoom
Speaker 4: meetings just for like, you know, social evenings. Before black
Speaker 4: Bird's week, we would have like game nights, and so
Speaker 4: like when I have really long hair, it's like down
Speaker 4: to about the middle of my back. When I go
Speaker 4: to work at my regular day job, I almost always
Speaker 4: have my hair pulled back in a ponytail because I
Speaker 4: figured out very quickly. If I don't do that, white
Speaker 4: people end up making really stupid comments. And it's just like,
Speaker 4: you know what, I'm just have my hair down. Why
Speaker 4: are you even talking to me for having my hair down?
Speaker 4: That doesn't happen in black spaces. Nobody cares that your
Speaker 4: hair is down. Everybody has some sort of type of
Speaker 4: hair that is close to what yours is. Sometimes it's messy,
Speaker 4: sometimes it's like covered in a head wrap. And in
Speaker 4: those group chats, in those moments, in those zoom meetings,
Speaker 4: it is normal and there's never a comment made unless
Speaker 4: it's when less we get into a topic about talking
Speaker 4: about hair care or hair care in the field, it's
Speaker 4: you're just like everybody else. Yeah, you don't have to
Speaker 4: worry about ignorance. It's very freeing and it makes it
Speaker 4: very comfortable and makes it feel very safe.
Speaker 5: That's one thing that really struck me about the blackaff
Speaker 5: live streams. That was really beautiful to see because so
Speaker 5: often people who are black and stem are tokenized or
Speaker 5: are on a panel where it feels like they have
Speaker 5: to represent everyone who has ever been in science and
Speaker 5: black at the same time, that kind of weight is
Speaker 5: on them, and it was really wonderful to watch the
Speaker 5: live streams to see that kind of burden be lifted
Speaker 5: and to see people be just be able to be
Speaker 5: completely themselves and much more care free in a space
Speaker 5: where they knew that they were safe. It was really
Speaker 5: such a joy to be witnessed too, you.
Speaker 4: Know, you know, and I mean it's a it's a
Speaker 4: great thing that you are even able to acknowledge that
Speaker 4: because a lot of people don't even realize how how
Speaker 4: guarded and how unsafe we feel in most spaces, because
Speaker 4: we are so used to kind of putting on faces
Speaker 4: and portraying ourselves in such a way that doesn't you know,
Speaker 4: upset the white gaze and other things, and so to
Speaker 4: acknowledge to be able to see that, you know, when
Speaker 4: when we're just being us and we're not just we're
Speaker 4: we're not trying to put on a face for anybody
Speaker 4: it's a whole different thing.
Speaker 5: And I loved like that your approach to science was
Speaker 5: so artistic and so like zeroed in on kind of
Speaker 5: the beauty of things that have been overlooked, and other
Speaker 5: people might approach their science differently. In the Black af
Speaker 5: and Stem episode, Joseph submitted a clip addressing BBC and
Speaker 5: National Geographic directly saying quotes, I have yet.
Speaker 4: To meet more than maybe two or three other people
Speaker 4: with an injury like mine who are also naturalists. This
Speaker 4: is a really good opportunity for BBC, not GEO. If
Speaker 4: you guys are listening, you y'all, y'all don't have any
Speaker 4: representation for disabled people amongst your photographers.
Speaker 5: Direct to the point and admirable.
Speaker 3: I was like, I like this guy.
Speaker 5: How represented do you feel in wildlife photography? Because I
Speaker 5: feel like most working wildlife photographers are ruddy white dudes
Speaker 5: in car hearts, Like you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 5: what does that feel like? And what should it be?
Speaker 4: You know, it's it's kind of that's multi layered. So
Speaker 4: there's on one hand, you know, like the comment that
Speaker 4: I made when I sent in my clip, I mean
Speaker 4: that stands there. There really is no representation. I don't think, honestly,
Speaker 4: in photography period, I can't think of anybody that I
Speaker 4: know that has a physical disability that is well known
Speaker 4: in photography. In wildlife photography, I mean it's even harder.
Speaker 4: And I mean some of that is there's a rationale
Speaker 4: to some of it, because there are some places, some
Speaker 4: locations that it is simply highly unlikely, if not impossible,
Speaker 4: to get any kind of a wheelchair to go. And
Speaker 4: I accept that. What I have trouble accepting is that
Speaker 4: nobody is actually willing to put forth any sort of
Speaker 4: mental energy to create any sort of solutions or diversity
Speaker 4: around that. Like just looking at what using myself as
Speaker 4: an example, obviously, somebody with mobility limitations can get pretty
Speaker 4: good at macrophotography because insects are not that hard to
Speaker 4: come by, at least for now. We can talk about
Speaker 4: the declining rate of the biomass of arthropods, which is terrifying.
Speaker 5: Okay, quick aside, I don't want to alarm you, but
Speaker 5: I looked into it, and some scientists are calling this
Speaker 5: the insect apocalypse. It's very bad. So, according to a
Speaker 5: recent story in Science Daily, only ten to twenty percent
Speaker 5: of insects and other invertebrate species have even been described
Speaker 5: and named, and some populations of flying insects, like those
Speaker 5: in parts of Germany, have declined seventy three percent in
Speaker 5: the last three decades. Is it because you keep squishing
Speaker 5: them with a kleenex and putting them in the toilet?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 3: Yes and no.
Speaker 5: There's a lot of factors, chiefly habitat loss, pollution, invasive species,
Speaker 5: and climate change all contribute. You are sad right now,
Speaker 5: and I understand because I am too.
Speaker 3: I love a bug?
Speaker 4: Are you kidding?
Speaker 3: So what can we do?
Speaker 5: Dad Ward can kiss a bug on its tiny face.
Speaker 5: It's tempting, but it's not helpful. So this same Science
Speaker 5: Daily article had a tidy list of what you can do,
Speaker 5: which I will now read off with my mouth.
Speaker 4: One.
Speaker 5: Avoid mowing your garden frequently. Just let nature grow and feed.
Speaker 5: Insects here welcome. Two plant native plants. Three, avoid pesticides.
Speaker 5: Four Leave old trees, stumps, and dead leaves alone. That's
Speaker 5: where bugs live.
Speaker 3: Five.
Speaker 5: Build an insect hotel. Why don't you?
Speaker 3: Six?
Speaker 5: Reduce your carbon footprint in general. Seven Support and volunteer
Speaker 5: in conservation organizations.
Speaker 4: Eight.
Speaker 5: Don't release non native species. So if your grandpa does
Speaker 5: not appreciate the emotional support iguana you got him. Do
Speaker 5: not let him release it on the patio. Nobody wants
Speaker 5: that except the iguana and your grandpa. And lastly, the
Speaker 5: article said, and I quote, be more aware of Tiindy creatures.
Speaker 5: Always look on the small side of life. So appreciate
Speaker 5: the bugs.
Speaker 3: You see.
Speaker 5: They are precious and we need them. And also just superficially,
Speaker 5: they're very beautiful. Also about those conservation organizations, Joseph would
Speaker 5: love to be working with them on accessibility, but you know.
Speaker 4: It's stuff like that that is, I guess is a
Speaker 4: little more frustrating. And also when you look at the
Speaker 4: institutional level, like I've looked at possible ways to get
Speaker 4: out of my current line of work and into something
Speaker 4: that is more conservation based, and organizations like US Fish
Speaker 4: and Wildlife or the various state departments, they all require
Speaker 4: you to have at a minimum of whatever the education
Speaker 4: requirements is in natural sciences. My thoughts surrounding that is
Speaker 4: some of these institutions they do have people that are
Speaker 4: on programs or push programs about accessibility or diversity, and
Speaker 4: I'm like, okay, but where are the people that actually
Speaker 4: have to use these things, because most of the people
Speaker 4: that I see on their accessibility programs are not people
Speaker 4: with accessibility limitations. Oh that's rich, that's really rich. Why
Speaker 4: is it necessary to make sure that they have a
Speaker 4: bassors or masters in one of the natural sciences. They're
Speaker 4: working on your accessibility program. They don't need to know
Speaker 4: all of the other stuff. And you can teach them
Speaker 4: about all this other stuff anyway, because that's what your
Speaker 4: entire organization is about. There's more that you can learn
Speaker 4: from them than anything. So exactly open up the door
Speaker 4: and actually improve the overall infrastructure of your organization.
Speaker 5: So if there are accessibility positions out there, staff them
Speaker 5: with folks who know the most about accessibility issues rather
Speaker 5: than have these stringent natural science degree requirements. So Joseph
Speaker 5: also told me about being part of several communities at once,
Speaker 5: something that other folks may not even consider.
Speaker 4: I had a talk with doctor Newberry at Bucknell University
Speaker 4: a while ago. We were talking about essentially black people
Speaker 4: in natural sciences and stuff like that, And the biggest
Speaker 4: thing that I said to him, or I think the important
Speaker 4: thing that I said to him, is when it comes
Speaker 4: to you know, this momentum that that black life and
Speaker 4: STEM and other organizations are creating now. It is to
Speaker 4: create a sense of camaraderie. I don't want to have
Speaker 4: to leave my Black community to have my needs met
Speaker 4: as a disabled person. I want my Black community to
Speaker 4: be able to meet those needs, because if I have
Speaker 4: to leave that Black community and I have to go
Speaker 4: to this other one, that means that I have to
Speaker 4: start dealing with the anti blackness that exists within those communities.
Speaker 4: And I don't want that either. Yeah, it's important to
Speaker 4: me that as we go forward that we are creating
Speaker 4: spaces and opportunities for accessibility and stuff that is not
Speaker 4: not something where we're targeting disability and where that's the
Speaker 4: overall emphasis, but we are simply creating a doorway for
Speaker 4: them to come into the larger community and to go
Speaker 4: on these tracks with the rest.
Speaker 5: So much, is there anything equipment wise that can that
Speaker 5: can be made available people that would help with that,
Speaker 5: anything that exists, anything that you wish.
Speaker 4: Exists, wish exists. Yeah, well, I mean there's stuff that
Speaker 4: does exist. So and I've seen various models. The one
Speaker 4: that I get the most is people will send me
Speaker 4: this chair that they've seen that is mostly it's like motorized,
Speaker 4: and it's large enough that basically you can push your
Speaker 4: manual chair into it and it basically locks into it,
Speaker 4: and it has like these tank tracks ps.
Speaker 5: I look this up and yes, it's like a small tank.
Speaker 5: I mean, on one hand, there's some rugged fund to
Speaker 5: be had, but on the other.
Speaker 4: And I'm like, what would I do with that in
Speaker 4: the field other than just destroy a whole bunch of habitat.
Speaker 4: You asked me to like basically climb into a tank
Speaker 4: and just kill all of the stuff that I'm actually
Speaker 4: trying to see you in a photograph. Yeah, this giant
Speaker 4: piece of equipment is useless to me, and that seems
Speaker 4: to be the kind of the go to is like
Speaker 4: this whole motorized thing. What I want to do is
Speaker 4: if I ever get the opportunity, and maybe it'll come
Speaker 4: as things with Black Eye system progresses, I want. I
Speaker 4: would like to I would love to sit down with
Speaker 4: an engineer who does chairs, or maybe someone who doesn't
Speaker 4: do chairs but just actually has access to the resources
Speaker 4: that has enough imagination and basically create an outdoor chair
Speaker 4: that is usable under manpower. It's been tackled before. It
Speaker 4: wouldn't be the first time there are a few other things,
Speaker 4: but having played sports being a pretty high functioning paraplegic myself,
Speaker 4: which also it has to be taken in consideration. So
Speaker 4: I mean it just because it's usable by me doesn't
Speaker 4: mean that it's going to be usable by someone that's
Speaker 4: a quadriplegic. So that's a different hurdle and maybe a
Speaker 4: different piece of equipment. Me being someone that loves to
Speaker 4: be active, loves to be outdoors, I need a chair
Speaker 4: that actually can permit me the opportunity to push my boundaries,
Speaker 4: to make me tired, to potentially get myself into some
Speaker 4: bad situations outdoors, but also is capable enough to get
Speaker 4: me out of those bad situations. I have some ideas.
Speaker 4: I don't know who to kick them around to. Maybe
Speaker 4: one day they will come knocking and I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 4: let's make a chair.
Speaker 5: Yeah there's any engineers listening to this? Hello number one?
Speaker 5: Follow you on Instagram. That's instagram dot com, slash Reels
Speaker 5: on Wheels. Also his website parahorpitulogica dot com. It's linked
Speaker 5: to the show notes. I'm just saying, because your stuff amazing,
Speaker 5: sign a message that would be that would be amazing
Speaker 5: if if you became a pioneer of something that could
Speaker 5: get more people out into nature that was also good
Speaker 5: for nature. That would be huge. And I have so
Speaker 5: I have so many Patreon questions. Can I go to
Speaker 5: the Patreon questions and then I'm probably gonna have a
Speaker 5: million more?
Speaker 4: But hey, I am here for you. I I My
Speaker 4: schedule is clear for the evening. We can stay on
Speaker 4: as long as you want, and you can call the questions.
Speaker 5: So four part ologies.
Speaker 3: But before we.
Speaker 5: Get to your questions, patrons, a few words from sponsors
Speaker 5: who make it possible for us to just rain cash
Speaker 5: on a worthy organization each week, chosen by the ologist.
Speaker 5: So this week Joseph, who says chronic migraines are one
Speaker 5: of the only things that can keep them from the field,
Speaker 5: told us about the American Chronic Pain Association, which since
Speaker 5: nineteen eighty has offered pure support groups and education in
Speaker 5: pain management skills to people with pain and their family
Speaker 5: and friends and healthcare professionals. So their website is THEACPA
Speaker 5: dot org. So a donation went to them thanks to
Speaker 5: some sponsors of the show, which you may hear about
Speaker 5: now get value.
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Speaker 5: Okay to your questions. Many of you, including Hilary Larson,
Speaker 5: Matt Ticado, Teak and Andrews, Victoria Harding, Ashley Calcafin Carolina
Speaker 5: and Gail Greinik all asked the same one that Kora had.
Speaker 5: I'm going to ask you patron questions.
Speaker 4: Cool, let's go.
Speaker 5: Several hundred people have questions for you. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 5: so many people wanted to know about getting the perfect shot,
Speaker 5: and essentially a lot of people want to know this
Speaker 5: is Cora's first time asking a question what do you
Speaker 5: look for in a perfect shot? And others wanted to know, like,
Speaker 5: what is the longest you have ever waited just to
Speaker 5: get the perfect shot of a specimen?
Speaker 4: The longest I've waited with wildlife in general, it's really
Speaker 4: only about timing, and it's kind of about luck. You know,
Speaker 4: you got to put yourself out there enough times to
Speaker 4: have enough opportunities to surpass the numerous failures that you're
Speaker 4: going to endure to get and find that one creature
Speaker 4: that is cooperative enough and sits still long enough for
Speaker 4: you to get your photos, set it up however you
Speaker 4: want to and execute it. So as far as how
Speaker 4: long I've waited, I would say not very long because
Speaker 4: it's normally you go into a situation and it is okay,
Speaker 4: I'm to take a photo, and then whatever you're about
Speaker 4: to take a photo of runs away, flies away, says
Speaker 4: screw you. By fail, you move on to the next one.
Speaker 4: So not really a whole lot of time spent. And
Speaker 4: it's kind of the same thing is once you get
Speaker 4: that one and it's great that they're comfortable and they
Speaker 4: just kind of chill, and you get your photos and
Speaker 4: then you're on your way. Sometimes they are semi cooperative,
Speaker 4: and these are the ones that drive me crazy. Semi
Speaker 4: quady being will sit still for a second and you'll
Speaker 4: have the shot lined up, and as soon as you
Speaker 4: click the shutter, they move.
Speaker 9: Why why Oh, they drive me absolutely mad because they
Speaker 9: keep giving you hope because they're not moving very fast,
Speaker 9: they're not fleeing from you, they're just not staying in
Speaker 9: that same position.
Speaker 4: And so you continue to readjust and reattack it and
Speaker 4: try to get that shot. And I've probably spent three
Speaker 4: minutes to an hour with probably one subject trying to
Speaker 4: do that.
Speaker 5: Because your depth of field is really really shallow, right,
Speaker 5: so if they move literally even a millimeter, it probably
Speaker 5: changes it.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I mean if they move at all, Like, yeah,
Speaker 4: it completely changes what area of the subject that's shooting
Speaker 4: is sharp completely. Focus stacking is kind of the way
Speaker 4: around that to some degree. But I mean even if
Speaker 4: they move when you're focused stacking, if they continuously move,
Speaker 4: then you're just as a well until they stop, It's like, okay,
Speaker 4: can you just these stop? Stay there?
Speaker 3: Stay?
Speaker 5: What do you think your percentage is between shooting and editing?
Speaker 5: So Joseph says he doesn't do much tweaking in terms
Speaker 5: of color because he wants the natural beauty of the
Speaker 5: creature to really come through. But what about the sheer
Speaker 5: number of images he takes? Just considering that it takes
Speaker 5: me like at least fourteen to maybe seventeen tries just
Speaker 5: to get a selfie where I don't look like my
Speaker 5: uncle Ron? Like, what is his ratio? How many of
Speaker 5: his photos are garbage? I need numbers?
Speaker 3: But do you have five thousand photographs to go through?
Speaker 4: Uh?
Speaker 5: He's just really good at knowing when to pull the trigger.
Speaker 4: Yeah, practice definitely. I mean it's all practice, And I
Speaker 4: mean I've got a lot of throwaway stuff. Like one
Speaker 4: of these days, maybe I'll make it my post for tomorrow.
Speaker 4: I'll post like my very first photo that I ever
Speaker 4: took of any invert and then something that's current so
Speaker 4: people can like really kind of understand of this is
Speaker 4: where you start and this, if you can doing it,
Speaker 4: is where you can end up.
Speaker 5: That's great. That'll be so encouraging for those of us
Speaker 5: who have a lot of blurry photos and bugs on her.
Speaker 4: I mean I had tons of them, Like it's funny
Speaker 4: like ever, like since you you've been campaigning to get
Speaker 4: me more followers. Like other people are going through like
Speaker 4: the history of my stuff, and you know, they're liking those,
Speaker 4: and I'm looking at them and I'm like cringing, and
Speaker 4: I'm like, oh my god, Oh I can't believe I
Speaker 4: actually shared this thinking that somebody was going to appreciate this.
Speaker 4: That is such a terrible photo, dude.
Speaker 5: That's how I feel when people like I started listening
Speaker 5: to ologies from episode one, I'm like, nah, the same way.
Speaker 10: Everyone feels that way, and that it's so funny because
Speaker 10: it's just that means that you're progressing. But I totally,
Speaker 10: I totally get that we see our progress with such
Speaker 10: in such a different lens, if you will.
Speaker 5: And there's someone who follows you, Timothy Dikes, who also
Speaker 5: loves macrophotography, and they asked, what macro photo? So did
Speaker 5: you take that blew your mind once you saw the
Speaker 5: details you otherwise couldn't see with your eyes, And they say,
Speaker 5: for me, it's been the scales of moths and butterflies,
Speaker 5: or the hairs on caterpillars, or textures on beetles, and
Speaker 5: so did you see any details of anything that you were.
Speaker 4: Like, what h that's a good question. I don't have
Speaker 4: an immediate answer for that one.
Speaker 5: Okay, well, he thinks.
Speaker 3: I have to tell you.
Speaker 5: Once I took a photo of a daisy and it
Speaker 5: wasn't until I zoomed in later that I saw a
Speaker 5: perfectly matching yellow globular springtail, which is a tiny bug
Speaker 5: with a big cute butt. It looks kind of like
Speaker 5: a Pokemon character. I cannot stress how globular its springtail is.
Speaker 5: It's perfect. So this hidden world of hallucinations is just
Speaker 5: one magnification lens away.
Speaker 4: It's really not about the animal itself, I think, And
Speaker 4: maybe it's just because it's a pet peeve of mine.
Speaker 4: So sometimes when I'm approaching these really these higher magnification images,
Speaker 4: is dust like, especially with these fuzzy jumping spiders, and
Speaker 4: they will have like dust all over their face, and
Speaker 4: I'm like, have you just been rolling around in dirt? Well, yes,
Speaker 4: obviously you have been rolling around in dirt, But could
Speaker 4: you have at least, I don't know, prepared cleaned yourself
Speaker 4: before we did this.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 5: It's like watching someone like eat potato chips and having
Speaker 5: them in their beard. You're like, you got a little
Speaker 5: you get a little right right there.
Speaker 4: It is exactly that. It is maddening.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. Four stats.
Speaker 5: A patron says, uh, who was their response to you
Speaker 5: being on the show? Any good online classes? It's been
Speaker 5: a while since they use their camera, but they would
Speaker 5: love to get.
Speaker 8: Back to it.
Speaker 4: So I haven't taken any classes. Well, no, that's not true.
Speaker 4: I haven't taken any online classes. I have taken two
Speaker 4: in person classes with another macro photographer. His name is
Speaker 4: Thomas Shahan. He's also in Oklahoma, and his is like
Speaker 4: the first work that I really kind of started to
Speaker 4: look at and study. First thing I did is I
Speaker 4: just started reading different concepts about lighting, composite lighting, composition, exposure,
Speaker 4: how to use your camera to the fullest extent of
Speaker 4: its capabilities, you know, shooting in manual instead of auto
Speaker 4: or even the macro mode. The macro dial that is
Speaker 4: on some camus not quite as efficient as if you
Speaker 4: were able to actually shoot with macro or in manual. Sorry.
Speaker 4: And then the other thing with me has just been
Speaker 4: has been lighting, seeing what other people are doing when
Speaker 4: it comes to lighting, how to actually get that soft light,
Speaker 4: especially since I mean, when you're shooting macro you have
Speaker 4: to have external light, you can't get around it.
Speaker 5: So manual settings can be even better than the pre
Speaker 5: programmed macro settings. And while we're all here or not,
Speaker 5: let's have a quick breakdown of some macro photography terms. So,
Speaker 5: first of all, in terms of lenses, Cannon calls macro
Speaker 5: lenses macro lenses, but Nikon calls the micro. So don't
Speaker 5: get thrown off by that. I don't know why I'm
Speaker 5: not here for a Canon nike On feud. You can
Speaker 5: do that among yourselves. Now, when it comes to lens length,
Speaker 5: it depends on what you're shooting. So some experts say
Speaker 5: forty five to sixty five millimeters is good for product photography,
Speaker 5: ninety to one hundred and five millimeters good for bugs
Speaker 5: and flowers and small objects, and one hundred and fifty
Speaker 5: to two hundred millimeters better for being farther away from
Speaker 5: your subjects. But we're going to talk about some super
Speaker 5: cheap hacks if you don't want to invest in a
Speaker 5: bunch of lenses for this. Also, in general, the higher
Speaker 5: your f stop, the smaller the aperture and the more
Speaker 5: crisp the details in your photo will be. But also
Speaker 5: the higher the f stop, the smaller the aperture, the
Speaker 5: less light you're letting in, so the longer the aperture
Speaker 5: has to be open. But if it's open longer and
Speaker 5: your shutter speed is slow, that could lead to blurring
Speaker 5: if your tiny little model moves. So you can get
Speaker 5: around that by having a high f stop, which means
Speaker 5: a small aperture and more light like sunlight or a flash.
Speaker 5: What are we talking.
Speaker 4: Some of the stuff is just you're so close, so
Speaker 4: close to the subjects that there's no other The natural
Speaker 4: light is not penetrating into the lens. You're too close,
Speaker 4: so we have to have some flash, but you have
Speaker 4: to make that flash soft so it's still appealing. And
Speaker 4: I just read, reading and looking at other people's work
Speaker 4: is kind of really the way that I've learned over
Speaker 4: the years in practice, practice, constantly, keep practicing.
Speaker 5: A bunch of patrons wanted to know how to get
Speaker 5: little critters to sit still while you're shooting them or
Speaker 5: while they're like waiting in their dressing room to get shot.
Speaker 5: Michah Weir, don Ewald May Merrill, Ira Gray Thomas and Wyndham,
Speaker 5: Ashley Connen, and Marika Shin all wanted to know, as
Speaker 5: did Charlotte filk guard who asked flying insects how to
Speaker 5: photograph them so they're sharp and snazzy and not just
Speaker 5: an adorable blur or it was just here now, I swear.
Speaker 5: They say, do you have bugs that you say will
Speaker 5: kind of collect and hold in like a green room,
Speaker 5: say until you're ready to shoot them? Or do you
Speaker 5: kind of you shoot them just in their setting where
Speaker 5: they would be, and you're just you kind of are
Speaker 5: out on the prowl and you shoot as you see them.
Speaker 4: A little bit of both. It depends in some cases,
Speaker 4: like the one that if you look at my instagram,
Speaker 4: the one that I posted I think yesterday, that tiger beetle.
Speaker 4: I definitely caught that guy. They do not sit still,
Speaker 4: so I caught him. I let him settle down for
Speaker 4: a little bit, and after that I was able to
Speaker 4: approach it a little bit differently and get my.
Speaker 5: Shots by the bay. If you follow reels on wheels,
Speaker 5: you may remember that this is a shot of a
Speaker 5: tiger beetle, and usually we see them from above and
Speaker 5: their backs are maybe greenish blue and metallic, kind of
Speaker 5: clamoring around leaves like a drunk robot. But the way
Speaker 5: Joseph got his shots, was head on, staring straight into
Speaker 5: their jaws, which honestly looks like if moose antlers had
Speaker 5: been dipped in gun metal, just ready to gnash up
Speaker 5: whatever prey was unlucky enough to find itself crushed in them.
Speaker 5: And it gave me like a whole new perspective and
Speaker 5: a respect for these tiger beetles.
Speaker 4: And they are also one of the ones that is
Speaker 4: absolutely masterful because at driving you crazy because you'll approach
Speaker 4: them and then they'll fly, but they don't fly very far.
Speaker 4: They will fly about six ten feet away from you
Speaker 4: where you can still see them, and it's this whole
Speaker 4: game of cat and mouse and you can't catch me.
Speaker 4: And I'm just like, okay, all right, how am I
Speaker 4: going to work around this one? But I mean anytime
Speaker 4: that I can, I like to shoot where they are
Speaker 4: as they are are, with as little disruption to that
Speaker 4: as I as I possibly can. The best way that
Speaker 4: I've found to do that is by finding spaces where
Speaker 4: man made infrastructure and nature meat kind of like parks,
Speaker 4: park benches, especially, Like there's one park here where there's
Speaker 4: this large walkway that's completely built from wood and it's
Speaker 4: covered by trees, and underneath it all of the foliage
Speaker 4: from all the winters or falls past. You know, all
Speaker 4: that stuff is built up around there. So there are
Speaker 4: invertebrates everywhere all the time, and they're pretty desensitized to
Speaker 4: human presence, so you can you know, it's granted me
Speaker 4: a lot of experience and opportunities to continue to shoot.
Speaker 5: Oh, that's amazing. That's such a good tip. Yeah, the
Speaker 5: way that the way that you can turn a spider
Speaker 5: into like a like a said Star Wars character, almost,
Speaker 5: do you know what I mean? Like they look like
Speaker 5: they look like these beautiful little aliens. When you see
Speaker 5: up closed and you see how many eyes and hairs
Speaker 5: and they're little, they're calissri like, it's just amazing, Like
Speaker 5: you're a leafhopper from the other day. Looks like it
Speaker 5: looks like a Star Wars character to man in real life. Honestly,
Speaker 5: these helmety heads and the big visor eyes, they've got,
Speaker 5: these gleaming robotic exoskeletons. It's the stuff of sci fi
Speaker 5: franchises and action figures. Now, if Joseph work has inspired
Speaker 5: you to get up close and personal with a slug
Speaker 5: or face to face with a winged tiny, what will
Speaker 5: you need less than you think? Perhaps so Patrons Marilyn Scruck,
Speaker 5: Fanny Laura Darnell, d Lley, Dames, Patrick Shaw, Katie Coast, Cat, Lindsay,
Speaker 5: Meghan McLean, Howard Yarmish, Rachel Weiss, James Miller, Kelly King,
Speaker 5: Ariana Mattson, Tino h A, Propo, and em all want
Speaker 5: to know essentially what Matthew Sparks asked, which is, do
Speaker 5: you have any alternate kit suggestions for beginners who really
Speaker 5: want to start shooting macro photography but can't afford a
Speaker 5: macro lens?
Speaker 7: Oh?
Speaker 3: Boy, howdy does he?
Speaker 5: So many people and you do not have to divulge this,
Speaker 5: but so many people are begging to know what kind
Speaker 5: of cameras or lenses or anything gear wise that you
Speaker 5: can dish on.
Speaker 4: So I'm going to take one further, and I'm going
Speaker 4: to add this. My personal opinion is that photographers that
Speaker 4: try to hoard all of their information of how they
Speaker 4: got to where they are jerks. What you heard me? Okay,
Speaker 4: There's no reason not to share as much information as
Speaker 4: you possibly can, because at the bottom line, there's no
Speaker 4: two brains that think exactly alike, and there's no and
Speaker 4: especially when you're dealing with wildlife, because it is not
Speaker 4: there to accommodate you like a model is. You can't
Speaker 4: instruct it on how to actually pose for you. You
Speaker 4: have to just get what they give and make the
Speaker 4: most out of that situation. And no two scenarios like
Speaker 4: that are going to be exactly alike. So I can
Speaker 4: impart whatever knowledge I want and whatever skill that a
Speaker 4: person is willing to actually gain for themselves through practice,
Speaker 4: and our photos are still not going to be the
Speaker 4: same photos, so there's no reason not to share it.
Speaker 4: I shoot now. I started with a Canon T five I,
Speaker 4: which is a Rebel series, which is an introductory DSLR.
Speaker 4: I now shoot with the Canon ninety D significant upgrade
Speaker 4: in resolution, like I could print massive prints of my
Speaker 4: images of tiny things, and that was the whole reason
Speaker 4: that I got the camera. Canon also offers mirrorless. I'm
Speaker 4: not trusting mirrorless yet because Canon is new to mirrorless,
Speaker 4: so I'm waiting to see what that that period is
Speaker 4: and see how it's received by other photographers.
Speaker 5: By the by, I looked it up for us, and
Speaker 5: a Rebel body can get used for less than two
Speaker 5: hundred bucks, so that's good. And when he says mirrorless,
Speaker 5: that's as opposed to a DSLR camera, and a DSLR
Speaker 5: stands for a digital because you no film single lens reflex,
Speaker 5: which means that there's a mirror in the back of
Speaker 5: the camera and it bounces the image through the lens
Speaker 5: up through a prism, through the viewfinder into your eye.
Speaker 5: And that means when you hit the button to take
Speaker 5: the picture, the mirror has to flip out of the
Speaker 5: way and it lets the shutter behind it open and
Speaker 5: the sensor records the visual information. So that is what
Speaker 5: those click noises are in press conferences. That's the mirrors
Speaker 5: clicking and clicking in a camera. Now you know now
Speaker 5: mirrorless cameras, those rely instead on a mirror to put
Speaker 5: it through a prism, to put it through a viewfinder
Speaker 5: to go in your eye. They rely on a digital preview,
Speaker 5: which could have a little bit of lag time. Also,
Speaker 5: there are some differences between auto focuses. But if nothing else, now,
Speaker 5: when you hear your phone making that shutter clicking noise,
Speaker 5: you'll think about how weird it is that they had
Speaker 5: to record the sound of a mirror flipping up to
Speaker 5: tell you that your.
Speaker 4: Picture took Yes, Venus Optics or LAWA, I think it's Laowa.
Speaker 4: They are. They manufacture lenses, and they really seem to
Speaker 4: cater to macrophotographers. They have a wonderful assortment of stuff,
Speaker 4: but a lot of their lenses are manuals, so they
Speaker 4: don't have electronic aperture settings. So you really have to
Speaker 4: know your gear and know how to actually manipulate it
Speaker 4: by hand rather than within the camera itself. So that's
Speaker 4: essentially what I guess. I think I have five or
Speaker 4: six different macro lenses. If you're just starting out, you
Speaker 4: can get a basic kit lens, and if you get
Speaker 4: a reversible ring that you can attach to your camera,
Speaker 4: you can flip that lens around, attach it to the lens,
Speaker 4: and it essentially in versus the optics. So you basically
Speaker 4: have like a macro lens that will get a lot
Speaker 4: closer than say like a regular fifty or sixty milimeter
Speaker 4: would what.
Speaker 5: You can flip a lens around backwards and use it
Speaker 5: that way. That's like clearnion you can take your shirt
Speaker 5: off and wear his pants.
Speaker 4: That's one thing that Thomas Shahan, like one of the
Speaker 4: guys that I've learned from used to do because he's
Speaker 4: a hardcore like budget or thrift thrift seeker. He's I'm
Speaker 4: a gearhead like that they call it. I love new
Speaker 4: gadgets and toys and being in to play with stuff.
Speaker 4: But if you're not in that position, just get any
Speaker 4: camera that you can get your hands on, get a
Speaker 4: reversible ring so that you can actually attach that to it,
Speaker 4: or just shop around for cheap used macro lenses. You
Speaker 4: can usually find them at fairly affordable prices, and work
Speaker 4: on your lighting. You need diffuse light.
Speaker 5: Okay, so a speed light is that flash attachment that
Speaker 5: clicks on top of the camera, but point it directly
Speaker 5: at a little and it's kind of like taking a
Speaker 5: picture of yourself under a bay of fluorescence. You kind
Speaker 5: of want to soften it a little bit, just diffuse it.
Speaker 5: You want your crickets to feel handsome.
Speaker 4: Right now, I'm experimenting with a piece of foam, and
Speaker 4: I basically cut a hole out of this sheet of
Speaker 4: foam that my lens fits through, and so my flash
Speaker 4: that's on top of the camera, and so when the
Speaker 4: flash bursts, it is essentially diffused through this piece of foam,
Speaker 4: so it spreads it out more and then it's soft
Speaker 4: for once it actually reaches the subject.
Speaker 3: Oh wow.
Speaker 4: And it's really easy way. I mean, the phone is cheap.
Speaker 4: You know, if I mess one up, I just go
Speaker 4: cut out and make another one. It's not the most
Speaker 4: environmentally friendly because phone kind of sucks, and there's other
Speaker 4: ways to kind of just do it yourself. I have
Speaker 4: a friend of mine who took like an old cereal box,
Speaker 4: formed it so that it actually fit over his speed light,
Speaker 4: over the flash on the camera, and then he covered
Speaker 4: the cereal box with a bunch of plastic bags. Oh
Speaker 4: that's his light diffuser. That's amazing, you know, it's really
Speaker 4: it's literally endless. Thomas Sheahan. He he takes like a
Speaker 4: plastic sheet like your paper protectors, like eight you know,
Speaker 4: eight by eleven paper protectors, and then he puts a
Speaker 4: bunch of like tracing paper into that, and then he
Speaker 4: takes a like a wire hanger to actually create his
Speaker 4: his outer ring of it so he can shape it
Speaker 4: however he wants to. And that's his light diffuser. It's
Speaker 4: literally do what you want. It's you know, do it yourself.
Speaker 4: If you can build stuff around the house, there's all
Speaker 4: kinds of options. But I would still stress that if
Speaker 4: you're going to do it, make sure the light is right.
Speaker 4: The light is important, get spend spend some time getting
Speaker 4: the light right.
Speaker 3: I'm ready for my cliff top.
Speaker 5: A lot of people wonder Leon, Leonna Schuster, Ellen Silva,
Speaker 5: Meghan Walker, Sylvia Treverio, Ellen, Drnal Tino h A Brought Bow, Nicholls,
Speaker 5: Rachel Sorer and Rachel de Growth all kind of we're wondering.
Speaker 5: Is there anything on your iPhone that you could do
Speaker 5: if you just want to maybe make your time in
Speaker 5: the park a little bit more macro friendly, if you're
Speaker 5: if you're not aspiring to say Justice Saunders levels of amazingness,
Speaker 5: but you want to put something on your phone like
Speaker 5: an Olio clip. What are you anything like that that
Speaker 5: you recommend.
Speaker 4: I I can't recommend anything based on experience. I don't
Speaker 4: have any attachments to my phone. I do know there's
Speaker 4: so we A friend of mine puts on a moth
Speaker 4: night where he basically puts a bunch of lights around
Speaker 4: this area and spreads out these sheets and it collects
Speaker 4: all kinds of bugs. It's great. And I know one guy,
Speaker 4: he doesn't have a camera, he has a phone, he
Speaker 4: has attachment to his phone, and that's what he uses
Speaker 4: the ground and you shoes mods and he gets an
Speaker 4: excellent perspective on what they are. You know it is.
Speaker 4: It is a really incredible device to be able to
Speaker 4: get a very clear photo that is up close to
Speaker 4: very small things. Since it is attached to your phone,
Speaker 4: it's going to be really difficult to get the lighting
Speaker 4: and exposure or have as much control over that as
Speaker 4: someone shooting a DSLR with speedlight and flash diffusion would.
Speaker 4: But if you just want to learn more about the
Speaker 4: tiny world that we exist in, because it's really this
Speaker 4: is the bugs planet? Where are They're just allowing us
Speaker 4: to be a part of it, I would strongly recommend that.
Speaker 4: I honestly, to some degree, I miss it because I
Speaker 4: still remember when I first started shooting, you know, I
Speaker 4: was just running around taking pictures of anything, trying to
Speaker 4: get something that just looks sharp. Because that's that's where
Speaker 4: you start. You try to get, you know, something sharp,
Speaker 4: and then you work on the exposure, and then you
Speaker 4: work on the composition, and then you work on the lighting,
Speaker 4: and then you et cetera, you know, down.
Speaker 5: The line, and now you're up to some level where
Speaker 5: you can capture like a jumping spider having one slow
Speaker 5: tear running out of its eye. That it both like
Speaker 5: both loneliness and regret. You've like your subjects of Meryl
Speaker 5: Streep and like a moment of contemplation. It's amazing.
Speaker 4: So but at the same time that does limit me
Speaker 4: because I spend more time on each individual one and
Speaker 4: I'm not just running around taking photos of every little
Speaker 4: thing that I see, because I limit myself based on
Speaker 4: the quality of the photo that I can get.
Speaker 5: Also, can I just say that everyone needs to have
Speaker 5: a friend that puts on a moth party, Like if
Speaker 5: you don't have a friend, if you're not on a
Speaker 5: group chat with at least one person who's like, I've
Speaker 5: got the black light in the sheet?
Speaker 4: Where are we meeting?
Speaker 5: Like you need new friends?
Speaker 4: No kidding, Like as long as as long as I've
Speaker 4: been doing this, I've I only met him just last year,
Speaker 4: and it's it's fun. Actually, there's a photo that's on
Speaker 4: my Instagram of fly and.
Speaker 5: Its aw Yes, I know that one that.
Speaker 4: Was actually taken at the first moth night that I
Speaker 4: went to. And like the moths, they frustrate me, so
Speaker 4: they land on the sheet and the only thing, the
Speaker 4: only photo that you're going to get ave any of
Speaker 4: these moths is just a plain dorsal photograph that is
Speaker 4: really good for identification. And that's kind of about it
Speaker 4: from a photographer's perspective. So they're going crazy over moss
Speaker 4: because he loves moths, and I'm all for it. I
Speaker 4: love his enthusiasm about it. But I'm you know, running
Speaker 4: around in other places looking for something else that is
Speaker 4: perched up somewhere else. Actually, the leaf hopper was photographed
Speaker 4: at the last one that I went to.
Speaker 5: Oh my gosh, Oh great news. National Moth Week July
Speaker 5: eighteenth through twenty eighth.
Speaker 4: Nice by the way.
Speaker 5: For more on this seat Nationalmothweek dot org, or you
Speaker 5: can follow Twitter dot com slash moth Underscore Week. So
Speaker 5: just when you thought that summer parties were canceled, there's
Speaker 5: always you and fifty bucks, that is the thing. Yeah,
Speaker 5: you're able to get a lot of like facial angles too.
Speaker 5: And is that a matter of you having to move
Speaker 5: your lens to them or can you kind of like
Speaker 5: gently urge them with a pencil to like face here, darling.
Speaker 4: Both you know, if you can move, if you move yourself,
Speaker 4: that is the preferred idea. Sometimes they are just a
Speaker 4: little bit off and you want them to sit just
Speaker 4: like so to get the angle that you want. The
Speaker 4: best way to go about doing that is not to
Speaker 4: use any part of your own body. Because there's something
Speaker 4: about human touch. They recognize it as something to get
Speaker 4: away from, not really a hug. I will find like
Speaker 4: the stem of a leaf or something that is much
Speaker 4: smaller than them and just very gently try to coax
Speaker 4: them over into a different location, and that I have
Speaker 4: much greater success with that.
Speaker 3: Oh smart, They're like, Okay, this leaf.
Speaker 4: Just wants me to be This was like, oh, I
Speaker 4: know what that is. That's that's not going to mean.
Speaker 4: This is fine.
Speaker 5: It can't feel your heart beat for your fingertips with
Speaker 5: a with a hunger for mods, let me see. Okay.
Speaker 5: I love this question. Several people asked it Kathleen Sachs,
Speaker 5: Josie Gambas, kat Lindsay, Adrian Hollister, and Nicole Wackery because
Speaker 5: they asked it verbatim the exact same question literally, what
Speaker 5: has been your favorite animal to photograph? And Nicole Bonus
Speaker 5: question any critters that give you the creeps.
Speaker 4: M favorite animal to photograph? How specific are we going
Speaker 4: going like species specific or.
Speaker 5: Sure like even if you're like I met one. Her
Speaker 5: name was Julie. She was a mantis. Like, I'm all
Speaker 5: in as specific as you want to get.
Speaker 4: I love them too.
Speaker 7: Oh my god.
Speaker 5: I had a pet one named Mirabelle, and she died.
Speaker 5: We had an open casket funeral.
Speaker 4: I have three mantises right now.
Speaker 5: Oh my gosh. Now are those like the orchid ones
Speaker 5: that I've been seeing you.
Speaker 4: Photograph I do have there? There is a young It
Speaker 4: wasn't an orchid. It was a spiny Asian spiny mantis.
Speaker 5: Oh, oh my gosh.
Speaker 4: Beautiful posted one of those recently. That was when it
Speaker 4: was still very young. It's an adult now, okay.
Speaker 5: So imagine a mantid that looks like something from a
Speaker 5: Ridley Scott fever dream. Just huge shiny eyes and sharp
Speaker 5: angles and spines. It's chilling and tiny and elegant.
Speaker 4: I have the green ghost mantis. I think there's a
Speaker 4: photo of that moment there. And I have an African
Speaker 4: twig mantis. I haven't posted a photo of him yet,
Speaker 4: but he's pretty cool.
Speaker 5: Which is the one that looks like it is like
Speaker 5: an alien, The one that has like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 5: those ones look like a leaf grilled face, and then
Speaker 5: became a supermodel. Oh the cheek bones amazing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I've had three varieties of those. I have
Speaker 4: two photos up there of my black one. She was
Speaker 4: the first one that I ever got. She has since
Speaker 4: passed away because they have a very short life span. Unfortunately,
Speaker 4: they only live about twelve to eighteen months. She was
Speaker 4: just at over about twelve months. Mantids are amazing. I
Speaker 4: love to find them and see them, especially in the wild.
Speaker 4: I really wish there was a greater diversity of mantids
Speaker 4: in Oklahoma. I think when we have like one, no,
Speaker 4: we have two species that I'm aware of. And then
Speaker 4: I'm obviously jumping spiders because oh, I don't understand how
Speaker 4: anybody doesn't love jumping spiders. Like it's at this point
Speaker 4: I understand. I kind of get, you know, an uneasiness
Speaker 4: about spiders, which sort of answers the other question. So
Speaker 4: I've got I actually started with a little more uneasiness
Speaker 4: about spiders. And then there was one night that I
Speaker 4: was in the park and there was this massive hole
Speaker 4: in a tree and I was just like, I just
Speaker 4: know there's going to be one night that I'm going
Speaker 4: to shine that whole nutree. There's going to be something
Speaker 4: in it, near it, or something else is going to
Speaker 4: freak me out. Behold In one night, I was leaving
Speaker 4: the park. It was behind me, but I remember that
Speaker 4: it was there. I turned around to shine my light
Speaker 4: and there was a fishing spider.
Speaker 3: Quick aside, how do you describe a fishing spider.
Speaker 5: It is not little. These things pluck fish out of
Speaker 5: the water and they eat them like corn on the cob.
Speaker 4: Oh and the leg span on this fishing spider was
Speaker 4: equal to my hand, and my hands aren't small. I
Speaker 4: can pull them a basketball. And if it kind of
Speaker 4: gives you some like some sort of perspective, it's a
Speaker 4: big spider. And I was like, there's no way I
Speaker 4: cannot take a photo of this. I have to rise
Speaker 4: up to the equation. And I had to like kind
Speaker 4: of coach myself into this to kind of get close.
Speaker 4: I was like, if this thing jumps off that tree
Speaker 4: and onto my face, I'm going to scream. But I'm
Speaker 4: going to do this anyway, even though that's maybe a
Speaker 4: possibility in my imagination, and I did. The photos aren't
Speaker 4: terrible because this was very early on and I'm I
Speaker 4: desperately want to find another one so that I can
Speaker 4: do this again, because now I'm like, okay, now it's
Speaker 4: been like five years, I'm ready for you.
Speaker 5: Now you're like rematched, dude.
Speaker 4: But I mean, nothing ill came of it, Like I
Speaker 4: don't think she moved at all, Like, and I'm certain
Speaker 4: she was a female just because of the sides. I mean,
Speaker 4: there's sexually dimorphic males are usually very tiny. She was
Speaker 4: a massive spider. Oh my god, sorry, I just got
Speaker 4: this struck. I just saw a jumping spider on the wall.
Speaker 4: Do you know which one? What kind of is I'm
Speaker 4: pretty sure it's the Maybia inclements because so my partner
Speaker 4: she keeps dart frogs and tree frogs, So we feeded
Speaker 4: a lot of feeder insects, and so I transplant jumping
Speaker 4: spiders into the house because I have a partner that's
Speaker 4: awesome and lets me do that. And they keep the
Speaker 4: fruit fly count low.
Speaker 3: Oh that's smart.
Speaker 5: Do you have Do you have like a dream assignment
Speaker 5: or project that you would want to work on. Would
Speaker 5: it be to kind of like infiltrate not Geo's ranks
Speaker 5: and have assignments for them? Would you want to publish
Speaker 5: a book. Is there anything that you really want to
Speaker 5: do with your photography that would be like a dream
Speaker 5: for you?
Speaker 4: So I would absolutely jump at the chance to work
Speaker 4: for someone like nat Geo so dream assignment though my
Speaker 4: dream would to be able to host like a gallery
Speaker 4: of my images on balls. But I want to do
Speaker 4: this in the hood. I don't want to do this
Speaker 4: in some I mean, I would take the opportunity if
Speaker 4: it was at some sort of prestigious location or anything
Speaker 4: like that at all. But I want black children from
Speaker 4: my neighborhood to actually see this and to take an
Speaker 4: interest in it, and to actually see themselves reflected in
Speaker 4: the work that I do and consider it a possibility
Speaker 4: for their own futures. That's my dreampt Coortmunity is. I
Speaker 4: want them to have access to what I do because
Speaker 4: I know my doorway into this, coming from a middle
Speaker 4: class military family, is different than what some of my
Speaker 4: black peers experienced earlier in their lives. So more than anything,
Speaker 4: that's that's what I want.
Speaker 5: Again. He just set up his Patreon yesterday, so if
Speaker 5: you want to see shots he doesn't show on the
Speaker 5: rest of the internet, go to patreon dot com.
Speaker 3: Slash JD.
Speaker 5: Monroe. I am like begging him to do a calendar
Speaker 5: one day, but he's plotting his next move, so.
Speaker 4: Like even through like the week of Blackbird's week. And
Speaker 4: I probably now even as much as praise and that
Speaker 4: I've been getting as much as I appreciate it, Like
Speaker 4: many of my peers, I still deal with imposter syndrome.
Speaker 4: I'm like, am I actually as good as some of
Speaker 4: the people that I used to look up to? Like?
Speaker 4: Am I there? Yet? So the whole idea of like printing,
Speaker 4: selling and doing all these things with my photos, I'm like,
Speaker 4: I just like to take pretty pictures of bugs. And
Speaker 4: I know, I know, I don't burden me with all
Speaker 4: of the other logistics of like being a professional and
Speaker 4: dealing with money. To just give me like a really
Speaker 4: big bag of money or something, and I'll just do
Speaker 4: all of this for sort of a free so that
Speaker 4: I don't actually set set prices and stuff.
Speaker 5: Oh my other question from earlier was do you have
Speaker 5: any idea what bird that is singing in the background,
Speaker 5: Because I know people are going to ask me what bird?
Speaker 5: There was a bird earlier and no idea what the background?
Speaker 4: Ye here with me? Yeah, that was not a bird.
Speaker 4: That was a frog. That was a frog? What kind
Speaker 4: of frog was it? That was either a dendro babies
Speaker 4: or rottis?
Speaker 5: Okay, he wasn't sure exactly which frog it was because
Speaker 5: his awesome partner has five species of poisoned dart frog
Speaker 5: and four species of tree frog. That is nine more
Speaker 5: species of frogs than I get to live with. And yes,
Speaker 5: I want to be friends with her chief so bad.
Speaker 5: That's amazing. I thought that there or birds out the window,
Speaker 5: but I even I love it even more now that
Speaker 5: I know that it's a frog. That's amazing. Because I
Speaker 5: knew people were gonna ask me. Also, I wanted to ask,
Speaker 5: do you have any advice for people that you wish
Speaker 5: you had known earlier or when you were younger, anything
Speaker 5: that you wish you had a voice like yours?
Speaker 4: Man? That is that is a heavy one. Wow, so
Speaker 4: one for black children that are raised in non black homes.
Speaker 4: It is perfectly within your right. It is not only
Speaker 4: within your right, but it is good for you necessary
Speaker 4: for you to understand that your life and your experiences
Speaker 4: and even your personhood is different from other people in
Speaker 4: your family. You do not have to limit yourself or
Speaker 4: push yourself to try to fit in or to lower
Speaker 4: or lessen your blackness to make them comfortable, not even
Speaker 4: your family. Live in your blackness, love your blackness, wear
Speaker 4: it with pride, and if they cannot accept that, move
Speaker 4: around it and find people who will. Because your blackness
Speaker 4: is not going to go away. This country especially will
Speaker 4: remind you of it the rest of your life, especially
Speaker 4: when you are away from them. So learn to love it,
Speaker 4: learn to live in it, learn to defend it, and
Speaker 4: learn to defend others as well.
Speaker 3: This dude is awesome.
Speaker 4: As far as disability test or boundaries, don't be afraid
Speaker 4: of test for boundaries. And I mean that applies to
Speaker 4: not even people with just disability, as does anybody you know.
Speaker 4: If you have the ability to do something, see how
Speaker 4: far you can go with it. And if you fail,
Speaker 4: if it goes too far, if you get yourself in trouble,
Speaker 4: take a serious look at it, assess it, and then
Speaker 4: make a create a new approach to it. Like I mean,
Speaker 4: when I'm in the field, it isn't like a lot
Speaker 4: of people always worried about accessibility and stuff and my
Speaker 4: safety and like I fall down, I've fallen out of
Speaker 4: my chair looking for something, I get out of my
Speaker 4: chair to catch stuff sometimes. You know, it isn't like
Speaker 4: something that is like literally completely attached to me. There
Speaker 4: there's a person that is, you know, not completely dependent
Speaker 4: upon the chair. I can move around. Chair just makes
Speaker 4: it a lot easier. Don't worry about my safety or
Speaker 4: my well being. Be a friend if I need help.
Speaker 4: I'm going to get myself into trouble because I want to,
Speaker 4: you know, be the friend that is actually supportive of
Speaker 4: that process.
Speaker 5: Don't be a friend who's trying to impose limits on you.
Speaker 3: That's great.
Speaker 5: Oh, last questions. I always ask what is one thing
Speaker 5: about your photography that is the most annoying or the
Speaker 5: thing that you dislike the most. You mentioned crumbs on
Speaker 5: spider hairs, But is there is there anything that anything
Speaker 5: that frustrates you, either from like a micro or a
Speaker 5: macro perspective.
Speaker 4: Not really. The thing I guess with photography with me
Speaker 4: is that it's it's my escape from everything, you know,
Speaker 4: with this is what I do when things like the
Speaker 4: murder of George Floyd and everything else become too much,
Speaker 4: when I need to just kind of set that down
Speaker 4: and take a break and be a person that does
Speaker 4: a thing, and so I grab my camera and I
Speaker 4: go out and some usually as much as I can,
Speaker 4: into some solitary place, and I try to create something
Speaker 4: that is worth appreciating. There really isn't a whole lot
Speaker 4: about that process that, you know, I find too cumbersome
Speaker 4: and let me maybe maybe it's just the actual act
Speaker 4: of carrying it around, I think more than anything. Because
Speaker 4: you know, once you with like micro photography, like you
Speaker 4: have your camera and if you shoot like a ds
Speaker 4: A lar, it's a larger camera, and you have your speedlight,
Speaker 4: and depending on the size of your light diffusion system,
Speaker 4: you know, that also takes up space, and so it
Speaker 4: can get a little bit clunky and difficult to carry
Speaker 4: around a little bit. But that's really it. No part
Speaker 4: of the process is too much, other than maybe, you know,
Speaker 4: like the occasional tiger beetle, it doesn't want to sit
Speaker 4: still and just likes to fly away five feet out
Speaker 4: of time, just to let you know that he's faster
Speaker 4: than you and that you can't catch me if he
Speaker 4: doesn't want you to. But but I mean, even then,
Speaker 4: you know that still has a value because even if
Speaker 4: I don't get a photo, I'm still you know, that's
Speaker 4: still lived experience. I still got to see it, even
Speaker 4: if I don't get to share it with anybody else,
Speaker 4: I still got to observe its behavior. I get to
Speaker 4: ponder of you know, why is it flying only a
Speaker 4: few feet away and insisting on staying in this area,
Speaker 4: And the reason that it is is because there's a
Speaker 4: smrgsborg of other smaller insects that it is preying upon.
Speaker 4: At that moment, he's like, I am not leaving this buffet.
Speaker 4: I will escape from you, but I'm going to continue
Speaker 4: to eat.
Speaker 5: Also, while on the topic of flying insects, what gives
Speaker 5: him butterflies? About wildlife photography? What does he love the most?
Speaker 4: I don't know if anything really gives him butterflies, but
Speaker 4: I mean just the possibility of the next image. It's
Speaker 4: you know, even when you've done something and like you're
Speaker 4: finished with it and you can appreciate it, there's always
Speaker 4: room to get better. Or even pretends that there's this
Speaker 4: notion about photography that there's only so high you can go,
Speaker 4: you can only get so good. Let's just say that
Speaker 4: there was an actual a cap on that even if
Speaker 4: there was a cap on that with wildlife photography, even
Speaker 4: with that cap in place, that imaginary cap in place.
Speaker 4: There's a limited, a finite number of situations that you're
Speaker 4: going to find yourself in in your entire life, even
Speaker 4: if you're doing wildlife photography every day for your entire life,
Speaker 4: that you're going to find yourself and to be able
Speaker 4: to actually create that shot. So you know, it's just
Speaker 4: it's the possibility of things that just keeps you going.
Speaker 4: You never know, Like I come up with different ideas
Speaker 4: or thoughts of compositions when I'm just kind of sitting
Speaker 4: in the house, I'm like, Okay, I want to take
Speaker 4: a picture like of this species and this kind of
Speaker 4: an environment for this location. It's just an endless number
Speaker 4: of possibilities and hoping that by the time I'm done
Speaker 4: and dead, that whatever it is that I create will
Speaker 4: have an impact that goes on past My life.
Speaker 3: Already has already has.
Speaker 5: Really just the beauty of your work inspires so many
Speaker 5: people to look at their world differently, and the passion
Speaker 5: behind the way you approach the natural world, and also
Speaker 5: sociology and the human experience and the black experience and
Speaker 5: your advocacy that is Yeah, I think you have already
Speaker 5: changed so many lives.
Speaker 4: Well, we're not done yet, Black AF and Stem is
Speaker 4: just getting started, and who knows what's going to come
Speaker 4: of that. I'm looking forward to it because this is
Speaker 4: something that I won't get up until recently that I
Speaker 4: kind of dreamed about. I didn't even know if it
Speaker 4: would actually come be something that would come to fruition
Speaker 4: within my lifetime. So I'm already elated at what we
Speaker 4: were able to do with Black Brothers Week, even I
Speaker 4: don't I don't expect it to be the case. But
Speaker 4: even if we were unable to achieve anything else, I
Speaker 4: would be happy that exists. I am happy that exist,
Speaker 4: that that was an experience that I will never forget,
Speaker 4: even if there's even if there was nothing else that
Speaker 4: was similar to it in the future.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, no, you guys are just going to start it,
Speaker 5: Are you kidding? This is like watching an empire being world.
Speaker 5: It's beautiful. It's really great.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So I'm well, I'm just here. I'm here on the
Speaker 5: sidelines cheering you on. Such a huge fan, such like
Speaker 5: a like a very authentically huge fan of your work.
Speaker 5: It's just gorgeous. I'm such a huge fan of it,
Speaker 5: and I'm so glad that you took some time out
Speaker 5: to talk to me. Well, this is amazing. I can't
Speaker 5: wait to put this up. This is just it's such
Speaker 5: an honor to talk to you. Thank you for letting
Speaker 5: me be your fan. If I'm ever in Oklahoma, I
Speaker 5: hope maybe we can go out Herpan or inverting.
Speaker 4: Glad to help me. I've got extra space here. I'm
Speaker 4: never one to not take an adventure when the opportunity
Speaker 4: shows it, so I'm there.
Speaker 5: Well, thank you so so much for doing this. So
Speaker 5: ask smart, talented people, earnest questions, and most importantly, listen
Speaker 5: to what they have to say, and follow them on
Speaker 5: Instagram at Reels on Wheels for some absolutely gorgeous, life
Speaker 5: changing macro photos of some of the world's most overlooked beauties.
Speaker 5: So thank you Joseph for letting us look through your lens. Also,
Speaker 5: if you are working from home and maybe spending less
Speaker 5: money at coffee shops, consider becoming a patron of Joseph's.
Speaker 5: If even a sliver of you tossed him a few
Speaker 5: bucks a month for all the free photos that he
Speaker 5: gives the world, you would afford him more time in
Speaker 5: the field doing what he loves the most and making
Speaker 5: me your dad so happy. And his brand, brand, brand
Speaker 5: new Patreon page is linked in the show notes. It's
Speaker 5: Patreon dot com slash j D Monroe. He set it
Speaker 5: up today, y'all. I was his first patron. Shout out
Speaker 5: to his wonderful partner Haley for helping with that. You
Speaker 5: can also buy his prints. You can get more info
Speaker 5: that is all on his website at Paraharpetalogica dot com.
Speaker 5: There is a link right in the show notes. Definitely
Speaker 5: go visit that. He's on Twitter at Twitter dot com
Speaker 5: slash JD Monroe. Two ten that will be in the
Speaker 5: show notes and again. His website has prints and twenty
Speaker 5: twenty three calendars that are going to sell out soon,
Speaker 5: so get one. He makes a bug calendar, bird calendar,
Speaker 5: jumping spider calendar, a herb calendar, landscape calendars, all of
Speaker 5: Joseph's work. Really good gift to yourself.
Speaker 3: You deserve that.
Speaker 5: We are at ologies on Twitter on Instagram. I'm at
Speaker 5: ali Ward with one L on both ologies. Merch dot
Speaker 5: com has your shirts, advisors and caps, even swimsuits. If
Speaker 5: you want my name on your actual butt, who doesn't.
Speaker 5: Ologies merch dot Com is managed by Shannon Fealtis and
Speaker 5: Bonnie Dutch. They are two very hilarious sisters. Who hosts
Speaker 5: the comedy podcast You Are That. Aaron Talbert admins The
Speaker 5: Haven of a Facebook group. Emily White and all the
Speaker 5: Ologies transcribers make transcripts available at Alleyward dot com, slash ologies,
Speaker 5: dash extras, and the link to those are in the
Speaker 5: show notes. Special thanks to everyone who's ever helped transcribing
Speaker 5: making those episodes accessible to def and hard of hearing
Speaker 5: ologites and anyone who needs great descriptions of the sound
Speaker 5: effects in writing. Thank you so much for doing that.
Speaker 5: Caleb Patten bleeps episodes to make them kids safe. Those
Speaker 5: are available at the same link, and Noel Dilworth helps
Speaker 5: with all my scheduling. Kelley Wire helps with the website updates.
Speaker 5: Sharrett Sleeper does assistant editing and is just a top
Speaker 5: notch human being. And thank you, of course to Herbert
Speaker 5: at Heart Dino and cat enthusiast host of the podcast
Speaker 5: See Jurassic Right, and the percast our lead editor Stephen
Speaker 5: Ray Morris, who's just a gem of a gent. Nick
Speaker 5: Thorburn wrote and performed the theme music and if you
Speaker 5: stick around to the very very end, right. It's like
Speaker 5: I'm just about to flick the lights on at one
Speaker 5: fifty nine am in a bar in send Folk scurrying
Speaker 5: right before I do it. I tell you a secret
Speaker 5: at the end of each episode, and this week it's
Speaker 5: that I went for a walk in my neighborhood and
Speaker 5: I found a crow roost. I've heard that there's a
Speaker 5: crow roost somewhere within like a three mile radius of here.
Speaker 5: I see the crows flying at night, and I found
Speaker 5: the crow roost. Y'all, there's a thicket of eucalyptus trees
Speaker 5: and that's where the crows all sleep. And I went
Speaker 5: there and there were crow feathers all over the ground.
Speaker 3: I got so excited because they just.
Speaker 5: Shed them and they fall off all they sleep. Also
Speaker 5: twenty twenty three me again to say that I accidentally
Speaker 5: ordered some black gel pen refills that were the wrong
Speaker 5: size for a pen, and I was like, I don't
Speaker 5: want to return them. I don't want to throw them
Speaker 5: in a landfill. But I felt guilty, and then I
Speaker 5: took a crow feather and I just jammed in the top.
Speaker 5: And now it's my new favorite pen situation. It's very
Speaker 5: scribbling poetry on parchment and delivering it via a pony
Speaker 5: to a distant lover. Except I'm just writing down an
Speaker 5: appointment to get my thyroid checked. On that note, invest
Speaker 5: in one of Joseph's gorgeous calendars this year mark your
Speaker 5: thyroid appointments if you have them. It's thirty five bucks
Speaker 5: for a year's worth of science goodness straight to the artist.
Speaker 3: His calendars are beautiful. Anyway.
Speaker 5: I know where the crows sleep, and I just want
Speaker 5: to stand under the trees and offer them a basket
Speaker 5: full of breakfast peanuts.
Speaker 3: But I don't know what time crows get up, but
Speaker 3: I feel like it's pretty early.
Speaker 5: Okay, stay safe for a mask.
Speaker 3: Look a bug and face and tell it it's beautiful.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 7: Provide billionness phono.
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