WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.360 --> 00:00:02.759 Get value you can't argue with at Tesco with their 2 00:00:02.799 --> 00:00:05.639 amazing club card prices. Have the perfect night in with 3 00:00:05.679 --> 00:00:08.759 their finest frozen pizza meal deal. Get the finest frozen pizza, 4 00:00:08.919 --> 00:00:11.679 chips and ice cream all for six euro like our 5 00:00:11.679 --> 00:00:14.839 delicious spicy salami hot honey, and do you or Margarito 6 00:00:14.880 --> 00:00:18.160 wood fired pizzas served up with their crispy chunkie chips 7 00:00:18.239 --> 00:00:21.280 and ice cream like sea salta caramel or pistachio for dessert. 8 00:00:21.679 --> 00:00:25.120 Can't argue with that shop in store or online. Tesco 9 00:00:25.600 --> 00:00:28.960 Every Little helps available in most stores. Prices vary in express. 10 00:00:30.359 --> 00:00:33.200 Mum, why did they call it Scottish cheese? 11 00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:36.039 It's cottage cheese, honey. And I'm not sure. 12 00:00:35.840 --> 00:00:39.200 Did the dogs in other countries speak different languages? 13 00:00:39.399 --> 00:00:39.719 Yeah? 14 00:00:39.960 --> 00:00:40.479 I think so. 15 00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:42.880 When when we get there, well, we've got to fix 16 00:00:42.920 --> 00:00:45.159 the car first, but there's someone coming to help us. 17 00:00:45.359 --> 00:00:47.119 Is it the man from Geneva? 18 00:00:47.200 --> 00:00:49.880 Not Geneva, he's from a Viva. 19 00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:51.159 Oh there's a van now. 20 00:00:51.479 --> 00:00:54.479 For car insurance with breakdown rescue, it takes a Viva 21 00:00:54.759 --> 00:00:57.719 visit Aviva. Do I eat to say? Fifteen percent acceptance 22 00:00:57.759 --> 00:01:00.600 criteria terms and conditions apply. Minimum premium of three hundred 23 00:01:00.600 --> 00:01:02.640 and ten year old. Fifteen percent discount applies to new 24 00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:05.519 policies bought online. See Aviva Dotta E for details. Car 25 00:01:05.560 --> 00:01:08.519 insurance is underwritten by Aviva Insurance Arland Duck Aviva Direct 26 00:01:08.599 --> 00:01:11.040 Arland Limited is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland. 27 00:01:11.359 --> 00:01:13.799 Oh hi there, twenty twenty three. Ali here to say 28 00:01:14.120 --> 00:01:17.159 that I was under the weather this week and I 29 00:01:17.200 --> 00:01:19.159 felt like hot, soggy garbage. 30 00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:22.079 So we're revisiting this really lovely and. 31 00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:26.879 Curious and artistic and naturalistic episode because it's also January 32 00:01:26.959 --> 00:01:30.400 and you need a calendar, and somebody, this guest now 33 00:01:30.480 --> 00:01:32.319 sells calendars of his work, so. 34 00:01:32.319 --> 00:01:34.799 That is a big update. They're really really gorgeous. 35 00:01:34.840 --> 00:01:35.680 I have one. 36 00:01:35.799 --> 00:01:38.480 His website is linked in the show notes, including a 37 00:01:38.519 --> 00:01:41.959 link straight to his calendars, which will sell out soon, 38 00:01:42.200 --> 00:01:45.560 so get one before they're gone. They're really really beautiful 39 00:01:45.840 --> 00:01:48.680 and his work is awesome and inspiring. Okay, more with 40 00:01:48.799 --> 00:01:51.719 him now. Oh hey, it's that older guy at the 41 00:01:51.719 --> 00:01:55.680 beach watching the sunset who collaps when it's done. Ali 42 00:01:55.760 --> 00:01:58.799 Ward back with a very very giddy episode of ologies 43 00:01:59.120 --> 00:02:01.200 up top. I want to let you know this guest 44 00:02:01.319 --> 00:02:05.319 has a website. Now parah herpetologica dot com. The link 45 00:02:05.359 --> 00:02:06.959 is in the show notes, so if you want to 46 00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:09.639 be looking at any of his photography while we talk, 47 00:02:09.800 --> 00:02:11.919 you can go to that or to his Instagram, which 48 00:02:11.960 --> 00:02:13.800 is in the show notes. Also, you can buy his 49 00:02:13.879 --> 00:02:16.759 prints on his website. Thank you to Kyle Sleeper of 50 00:02:16.759 --> 00:02:19.560 now Labs for putting that together. And the guest also 51 00:02:19.719 --> 00:02:22.439 has a Patreon. It is linked in the show notes. 52 00:02:22.520 --> 00:02:25.879 You can directly support his work and see all kinds 53 00:02:25.879 --> 00:02:29.199 of unreleased photos and behind the scenes, so go to 54 00:02:29.240 --> 00:02:32.599 his website, follow him on Instagram, and support him at Patreon. 55 00:02:32.840 --> 00:02:35.479 Okay on with the intro. Thank you to everyone who 56 00:02:35.520 --> 00:02:38.759 keeps Ologies up among the science goliaths in the podcast 57 00:02:38.840 --> 00:02:41.919 charts by making sure you're subscribed and by rating, by 58 00:02:41.919 --> 00:02:44.680 of course reviewing the show. I read all of the reviews. 59 00:02:44.960 --> 00:02:47.240 I pick a hot, steamy fresh one each week to read, 60 00:02:47.240 --> 00:02:49.080 and this one was from Plexo nine to one, who 61 00:02:49.120 --> 00:02:51.560 says Ologies makes me feel like I'm in the best 62 00:02:51.639 --> 00:02:55.960 classroom discussion on a rainy day with a sub hi brace. 63 00:02:56.159 --> 00:02:59.639 I appreciate that. Also, Hello to Majestic Worm and why 64 00:02:59.719 --> 00:03:01.680 do I know you need a nickname? Who both drive 65 00:03:01.800 --> 00:03:05.120 delivery trucks and are tuning in, so let's keep these 66 00:03:05.199 --> 00:03:08.439 good vibes roll in with a periology And it just 67 00:03:08.840 --> 00:03:12.159 did not have a specific ology. I looked at every 68 00:03:12.520 --> 00:03:16.000 quarter of the internet for one, it didn't exist. But 69 00:03:16.120 --> 00:03:18.439 this guest is someone you heard on the Black af 70 00:03:18.439 --> 00:03:20.879 and Stem episode we did last month, and I love his. 71 00:03:20.919 --> 00:03:21.599 Work so much. 72 00:03:21.879 --> 00:03:25.680 I just wanted to know more about his wildlife macrophotography process. 73 00:03:25.960 --> 00:03:28.840 He has so many fans who are ologies listeners. So 74 00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:32.360 I asked Patreon what ology this would even be, and 75 00:03:32.439 --> 00:03:36.879 Zultan and Sarah both suggested nature picture taking ology. Rob 76 00:03:36.919 --> 00:03:42.400 Hover offered wildlife portraitology. Emily's dad and Rachel de guff 77 00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:46.800 both said close up ologist. But then patron Ellen Silva 78 00:03:46.879 --> 00:03:51.479 suggested a periology from the Latin apaio, meaning to open 79 00:03:51.840 --> 00:03:54.759 or reveal, and Ellen wrote of this guest's work that 80 00:03:54.800 --> 00:03:58.960 these photos certainly reveal a world of detail. Also bonus. 81 00:03:59.000 --> 00:04:02.520 I was like, yes, pario an aperture of the camera 82 00:04:02.879 --> 00:04:07.120 also opening different spaces both physically and culturally for more 83 00:04:07.159 --> 00:04:10.280 people to be included. So yes, a periology. It is 84 00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:13.759 thank you, Ellen, A word was coined just for this episode. 85 00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:16.360 Never before, who have we done that on ologies. I'm 86 00:04:16.439 --> 00:04:19.199 usually very strict that theology exists elsewhere, but this one 87 00:04:19.279 --> 00:04:22.120 is just a very rare special occasion, and I'm thrilled 88 00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:24.759 that there is now a periology. So we're going to 89 00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:28.240 be chatting about the magnificent art and science, which you 90 00:04:28.279 --> 00:04:31.639 can see on his website again Paraherpetologica dot com linked 91 00:04:31.639 --> 00:04:34.800 in the show notes side note. A macrophoto is technically 92 00:04:34.800 --> 00:04:37.160 one in which the size of the subject on the 93 00:04:37.240 --> 00:04:40.680 film or the image sensor is life size or larger, 94 00:04:40.920 --> 00:04:45.079 so his artwork is larger than life scientifically speaking. His 95 00:04:45.160 --> 00:04:48.120 Instagram at Reels on Wheels is just a gallery of 96 00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:53.879 pensive praygnantises and dead on stares from beetles, the cutest 97 00:04:53.959 --> 00:04:57.680 spiders with the most cartoony eyes and more. And as 98 00:04:57.680 --> 00:05:00.720 a lifelong bug lover, I was hooked on his work 99 00:05:00.879 --> 00:05:03.199 as soon as I saw it, and he now has 100 00:05:03.319 --> 00:05:06.680 thirteen thousand followers on Instagram, most of them just from 101 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:09.199 the last few weeks. It's climbing so fast I wouldn't 102 00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:11.079 be surprised to see him break like one hundred thousand 103 00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:13.439 in the next few months, So follow him on there. 104 00:05:13.759 --> 00:05:17.600 And also, by chance, this episode coincides perfectly with Disability 105 00:05:17.639 --> 00:05:21.240 Pride month as we celebrate the July nineteen ninety passing 106 00:05:21.319 --> 00:05:24.480 of the Americans with Disabilities Act. So let's celebrate that 107 00:05:24.560 --> 00:05:27.279 with a glass of iced tea and listen to his 108 00:05:27.480 --> 00:05:32.160 process his relationships with animals, why we should appreciate the slithery, 109 00:05:32.360 --> 00:05:36.480 the scaly, the buggy, the leggy creatures, lenses, cheap gear. 110 00:05:36.279 --> 00:05:39.160 Hacks, which spiders are the cutest. 111 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:43.759 His macro photography mentors, the best place to photograph inverts, 112 00:05:43.879 --> 00:05:44.319 and more. 113 00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:45.920 Also, you may. 114 00:05:45.800 --> 00:05:48.680 Hear some beautiful chirping in the background, and you have 115 00:05:48.759 --> 00:05:50.959 to listen to the whole episode to find out what 116 00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:53.079 kind of bird it is. Just think of it as 117 00:05:53.120 --> 00:05:56.680 a lovely hello from nature. So get ready for your 118 00:05:56.720 --> 00:06:00.680 eyes and ears and world to open with the wisdom 119 00:06:00.839 --> 00:06:04.680 and the creativity of wildlife photographer and the world's first 120 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:29.720 ever a periologist. Jay Debonroe Online aka Joseph Saunders. I'm 121 00:06:29.759 --> 00:06:31.959 so excited to talk to you. I feel like you're 122 00:06:32.199 --> 00:06:36.600 my auntsel Adams. You're like my Annie Leaviss, like my 123 00:06:36.600 --> 00:06:39.759 favorite photographer. So this is kind of a big deal. 124 00:06:40.759 --> 00:06:42.639 I need to I'm gonna have to play it much 125 00:06:42.680 --> 00:06:45.160 cooler than this because I'm like seriously so struck to 126 00:06:45.160 --> 00:06:49.240 talk to you. So how long have you been doing photography? 127 00:06:49.279 --> 00:06:52.040 Did you like the outdoors and nature first or did 128 00:06:52.120 --> 00:06:53.279 you like photography first. 129 00:06:54.199 --> 00:06:58.639 I've always been a herber at heart. I grew up 130 00:06:58.680 --> 00:07:02.560 in San Antonio, Texas. Also, just a quick aside, I'm 131 00:07:02.600 --> 00:07:04.439 actually I was originally born in California. 132 00:07:04.920 --> 00:07:05.079 Oh. 133 00:07:05.720 --> 00:07:07.639 I don't know if you're from California, but I realized 134 00:07:07.680 --> 00:07:10.120 I Shira out that way. I was born in Tinker 135 00:07:10.199 --> 00:07:11.759 Air Force Base in Fairfield. 136 00:07:12.120 --> 00:07:15.399 No way, I know exactly where that is. How long 137 00:07:15.439 --> 00:07:17.680 were you out in California before you moved to Texas? 138 00:07:17.879 --> 00:07:20.120 Not long enough to have any awesome memories. I think 139 00:07:20.399 --> 00:07:22.360 I moved from California when I was about three, so 140 00:07:22.399 --> 00:07:25.560 I really don't remember any of it. My upbringing really 141 00:07:25.639 --> 00:07:28.839 resides mostly in San Antonio, in a little bit in Phoenix, Arizona, 142 00:07:28.920 --> 00:07:32.759 but so back to San Antonio. So San Antonio. Chelsea 143 00:07:33.240 --> 00:07:35.759 one of the other members of Blackefe and Stem, she 144 00:07:35.839 --> 00:07:39.279 studies an oles, and that was my spark animal was 145 00:07:39.319 --> 00:07:42.519 the green and ole. Yay, Like the green and ole 146 00:07:42.600 --> 00:07:47.839 got me completely obsessed with reptiles, amphibians and all that stuff. 147 00:07:47.839 --> 00:07:51.360 They're everywhere in San Antonio, green and oles and Mediterranean 148 00:07:51.399 --> 00:07:53.199 geck gos, Like I go back to my brothers who 149 00:07:53.199 --> 00:07:56.279 still lives there, and like I cannot wait to get 150 00:07:56.279 --> 00:07:58.639 there because I just start like searching around his house 151 00:07:58.680 --> 00:08:00.399 looking for a oles so I can so my nieces 152 00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:00.800 and nephew. 153 00:08:00.920 --> 00:08:03.720 Of course, growing up in the desert in Arizona, in 154 00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:07.560 San Antonio, that must have been like the best kind 155 00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:09.560 of animal to see these wizards. 156 00:08:10.120 --> 00:08:14.120 So like the crazy thing is and I slap myself 157 00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:16.959 every time it comes to mind, But I also have 158 00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:20.240 to remind myself of the reasons to be grateful. I 159 00:08:20.360 --> 00:08:23.199 was not really involved in herpetology or a better culture 160 00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:24.720 in any kind of way when I lived in Arizona. 161 00:08:25.519 --> 00:08:27.319 I went to high school in Arizona. My mom got 162 00:08:27.319 --> 00:08:29.720 stationed at Blue Air Force Base. I'm so grateful for 163 00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:32.360 it because the friends that I had there, they were 164 00:08:32.559 --> 00:08:37.639 the generation that followed a lot of the conflict between 165 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:42.600 the War on drugs and the history surrounding that in Oakland, California. Oh, 166 00:08:42.639 --> 00:08:45.480 and a lot of them left Oakland like seeking a 167 00:08:45.480 --> 00:08:50.919 better life, and they taught me so much about black 168 00:08:50.960 --> 00:08:54.159 life that I had no idea because one I was 169 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:59.120 raised by white parents my biological mother is white and 170 00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:02.519 also in the military, So I mean we're like completely 171 00:09:02.679 --> 00:09:04.480 cut off from like the realities we think, you know, 172 00:09:04.519 --> 00:09:08.039 our entire bubble is just air force. That was my 173 00:09:08.159 --> 00:09:11.399 coming to reality moment, was my friendship with them, and 174 00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:14.519 I'm so grateful to them to this day because you 175 00:09:14.559 --> 00:09:19.200 know that they opened me up to learn so much 176 00:09:19.240 --> 00:09:23.480 more about blackness, about the justice issues that we are 177 00:09:23.559 --> 00:09:25.679 facing now. And there's no way that I could have 178 00:09:25.720 --> 00:09:27.159 been the person that I am now without them. 179 00:09:27.399 --> 00:09:29.799 So Joseph moved to Phoenix at fifteen, and it was 180 00:09:29.840 --> 00:09:32.600 there that this community many people who were driven out 181 00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:35.120 from Oakland and the Bay Area because of the racial 182 00:09:35.159 --> 00:09:38.200 underpinnings of this so called war on drugs, and these 183 00:09:38.200 --> 00:09:41.639 people opened his eyes to his own culture. And he 184 00:09:41.759 --> 00:09:45.000 also recalled a close friend who, when they were just teens, 185 00:09:45.320 --> 00:09:48.679 was brutally assaulted by two police officers after just walking 186 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:51.840 into a convenience store in a white neighborhood. And Joseph 187 00:09:51.919 --> 00:09:54.320 says that that was a moment when he really had 188 00:09:54.320 --> 00:09:57.639 to face the reality of the disparities between how black 189 00:09:57.679 --> 00:10:01.320 people and white people see the issue racism through their 190 00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:05.799 own lenses, and his white family didn't always understand. But 191 00:10:06.039 --> 00:10:07.720 he made friends who did you know. 192 00:10:08.120 --> 00:10:12.480 The great thing is is while the military are growing up, 193 00:10:12.519 --> 00:10:14.960 but you know a military brat. It did grant me 194 00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:21.440 by best friend who I very very firmly say is 195 00:10:21.440 --> 00:10:26.000 my brother, because we were in kindergarten together and we've 196 00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:28.399 been together ever since. He was the other black person 197 00:10:28.440 --> 00:10:30.600 that I knew that actually liked animals and the weird 198 00:10:30.639 --> 00:10:32.440 ones as much as I did. Like, we were in 199 00:10:32.519 --> 00:10:35.279 kindergarten together and we would have library days where we 200 00:10:35.320 --> 00:10:37.120 would go from a classroom over the library and he 201 00:10:37.159 --> 00:10:39.200 and I would basically barter over which one of us 202 00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:40.919 got to read the Snake Book, the Spider Book, the 203 00:10:40.919 --> 00:10:44.000 Shark Book, and it was like, okay, you get this 204 00:10:44.039 --> 00:10:45.879 one this week, and you know, you take this one 205 00:10:45.919 --> 00:10:48.159 this week, and then we would switch and we read 206 00:10:48.200 --> 00:10:49.919 the same ones over and over again, like I can 207 00:10:49.960 --> 00:10:52.279 still picture like some of the photos, like one of them, 208 00:10:52.639 --> 00:10:55.120 I think the spider book had had a trap war 209 00:10:55.159 --> 00:10:58.399 spider on the cover of it. I'm so grateful for 210 00:10:58.440 --> 00:11:00.960 that because them they're my face. And we go back 211 00:11:00.960 --> 00:11:03.840 to San Antonio every every year and spend a week 212 00:11:03.879 --> 00:11:07.000 together with my three nieces and my nephew and you know, 213 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:09.960 that's my family. That is my very very black family. 214 00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:13.879 And also now I have black af and stem and 215 00:11:13.919 --> 00:11:16.240 that is you know, I have my family, and now 216 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:21.240 I also have this amazing black naturalist community. Yeah. So 217 00:11:21.559 --> 00:11:26.879 as much as my relationship with my relatives on my 218 00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:30.480 mom's side, as hurtful as that really truly was, I 219 00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:33.720 have the support. Yeah, I have the foundation that I 220 00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:36.159 need to be able to go forth and continue. 221 00:11:36.240 --> 00:11:41.480 So you you started liking animals maybe before photography. 222 00:11:41.799 --> 00:11:45.840 Oh yes, so I had to. I had a hop 223 00:11:45.879 --> 00:11:49.960 on my own Facebook page real quick, because I didn't 224 00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:54.559 actually start taking photos with any sort of seriousness until 225 00:11:54.960 --> 00:11:55.879 twenty fourteen. 226 00:11:56.600 --> 00:11:59.480 Really, yep, really I wouldn't. I would have thought that 227 00:11:59.519 --> 00:12:03.120 it was a lot, because you're really very good at it. 228 00:12:04.039 --> 00:12:06.600 What what was it that that started? Did you start 229 00:12:06.639 --> 00:12:09.360 taking iPhone picks or did you did you start by 230 00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:12.600 getting a camera and just taking it out, you know, 231 00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:14.799 whenever you go looking for herbs. 232 00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:18.720 So I'm almost ashamed of this just because of my 233 00:12:19.480 --> 00:12:22.759 circle of influence. Now, what got me into this is 234 00:12:22.799 --> 00:12:28.559 that I found out about people who breathe various like 235 00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:31.200 high end morphs of ball pythons when I was in 236 00:12:31.240 --> 00:12:35.559 college and I that's what I do. Now, that's that's 237 00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:39.480 my own business. I'm regularly employed. I have my own employer, 238 00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:42.039 but my my own small businesses. I reread ball pythons. 239 00:12:42.519 --> 00:12:43.480 Oh my god. 240 00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:47.840 So so what I what I found out was I 241 00:12:47.879 --> 00:12:49.440 was like, okay, so how do I actually take good 242 00:12:49.480 --> 00:12:51.639 photos of my animals to make sure that you know, 243 00:12:51.720 --> 00:12:54.320 I'm you know, doing good advertising in this kind of stuff. 244 00:12:54.799 --> 00:12:56.600 And someone's like, you know, you need to a decent camera. 245 00:12:56.759 --> 00:12:59.399 And then somebody said one time that you know, you 246 00:12:59.399 --> 00:13:03.960 need to get a decent macro lens because baby snakes 247 00:13:04.000 --> 00:13:05.679 are small. You know, you got to make sure that 248 00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:07.639 you know, you get the right equipment. I was like, 249 00:13:07.639 --> 00:13:11.519 all right, cool. So I got an old Canon T 250 00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:14.679 five I back in twenty thirteen, I think, and I 251 00:13:14.720 --> 00:13:16.480 think it's set on the shelf for a good long 252 00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:18.159 while because I didn't know what to do with it. 253 00:13:20.840 --> 00:13:23.679 And after someone mentioned the macro lens, I got the 254 00:13:23.759 --> 00:13:27.000 cannon one hundred millimeter and I went and I was 255 00:13:27.080 --> 00:13:29.960 running around the park and playing with it, and I 256 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:33.960 realized that I could fit a cricket's head in the 257 00:13:34.120 --> 00:13:38.720 entire frame many cricket and my mind just exploded it 258 00:13:38.759 --> 00:13:41.240 and I've just been going completely nuts ever since. I 259 00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:44.240 was just like, this is too much fun. Bugs are everywhere, 260 00:13:44.320 --> 00:13:48.000 this is so it's not that it's easy, but it's accessible, 261 00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:50.039 Like you don't have to hike miles to find some 262 00:13:50.039 --> 00:13:52.120 sort of a rare species. It's what can you find 263 00:13:52.159 --> 00:13:53.679 in your own yard and how can you present it 264 00:13:53.720 --> 00:13:55.879 in such a way to change someone's mind and opinion 265 00:13:56.360 --> 00:13:59.200 about something that most people just like stomp on without 266 00:13:59.480 --> 00:14:01.519 you know a second and thought, yeah, I mean that 267 00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:07.120 ties back into my earlier impression as as a herber Is. 268 00:14:08.039 --> 00:14:10.840 You know, A big part of it was the recognition 269 00:14:12.200 --> 00:14:17.159 that this being before I guess being more becoming more 270 00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:22.960 confident and understanding of my blackness. I've been disabled since birth. 271 00:14:22.960 --> 00:14:25.639 I have spine of vivida, so I've used a chair 272 00:14:25.720 --> 00:14:28.559 all my life. So I've always felt, you know, some 273 00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:32.279 I've always felt empathy and some connection when it came 274 00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:34.320 to reptiles for a sense of not fitting in, for 275 00:14:34.399 --> 00:14:38.799 a sense of kind of persecution, not being enough. So 276 00:14:38.879 --> 00:14:41.799 I really attached on to reptiles kind of for that reason, 277 00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:46.080 like snakes, especially because I would grow up as a 278 00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:48.919 kid and watching like documentaries and you know, the various 279 00:14:48.919 --> 00:14:51.960 facts and David Attenborough talking about reptiles and this and 280 00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:59.159 that and this is a horned lizard. I'm very beautiful too. 281 00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:01.559 What I always stood ou to me most was a 282 00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:07.159 few things. One, how tough scales are. You know, they 283 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:10.600 basically are just this form of armor that allows them 284 00:15:10.639 --> 00:15:14.399 to be able to withstand bites from their prey and 285 00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:18.120 or other predators, and you know, so on and so forth. 286 00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:21.519 It gives them this this layer of protection. Another thing 287 00:15:21.639 --> 00:15:24.679 is being that you know, they can go weeks, maybe 288 00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:27.600 months without any water months, you know, if they have 289 00:15:27.639 --> 00:15:29.919 an adequate source of food, since they get about seventy 290 00:15:29.960 --> 00:15:33.519 percent of their water from their food that they actually eat, 291 00:15:34.600 --> 00:15:36.240 and they survive it. You know, you can put them 292 00:15:36.279 --> 00:15:40.639 in like like sidewinders in Arizona or horned vipers, stick 293 00:15:40.679 --> 00:15:42.440 them out in the middle of the desert, and they're fine, 294 00:15:42.919 --> 00:15:53.879 pretty good, pretty pretty, pretty pretty good. And I looked 295 00:15:53.960 --> 00:15:59.600 upon them as an example of as an example of resiliency, 296 00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:02.840 you know, an example of how to be tough, of 297 00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:07.600 how to survive, of how to not only not just 298 00:16:07.639 --> 00:16:10.440 survive just based off of what other people perceive as 299 00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:14.840 your limitations, but also how to survive when everybody else 300 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:15.679 is against. 301 00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:20.360 You if you're feeling overlooked or underestimated. Right, yeah, how 302 00:16:20.440 --> 00:16:23.240 beautiful is that? The answer is very beautiful. 303 00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:26.919 So you know that connection for me and reptiles is 304 00:16:27.159 --> 00:16:28.720 I think that's why it's been the one thing that 305 00:16:28.759 --> 00:16:32.080 I've always that has just never gone away. Like you know, 306 00:16:32.120 --> 00:16:35.000 I used to love sports. I still love sports, but 307 00:16:35.080 --> 00:16:37.080 I mean I haven't touched the basketball since twenty twelve. 308 00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:39.720 Spend my time playing ball when I was in my twenties, 309 00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:45.039 But I just keep coming back to reptiles and now 310 00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:48.200 the same kind of relationship and perspective still applies when 311 00:16:48.200 --> 00:16:52.000 it comes to invertebrates because nobody gives it damn about them. 312 00:16:52.480 --> 00:16:54.919 You know, they get into the house and people it's 313 00:16:54.960 --> 00:16:57.639 some big thing for people to they think that it's 314 00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:00.600 some great thing that they don't kill in that they 315 00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:02.120 would catch them and release them. I was like, why 316 00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:03.360 that should be the norm. 317 00:17:03.679 --> 00:17:07.759 Yes, there's so few that can actually hurt you. There's 318 00:17:07.759 --> 00:17:11.079 so many shower spiders that are just they just want 319 00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:13.759 to hang out in the corner, right, just let them out. 320 00:17:14.440 --> 00:17:17.440 But the what you do, the way that you photograph 321 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:22.680 these creatures, the number one, your field of focus is 322 00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:27.079 so shallow that what is so crisp it draws you in. 323 00:17:27.359 --> 00:17:30.680 It's just magnetic because what's so crisp, your eyes just 324 00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:34.519 like feasts on and then the backgrounds are so obscured, 325 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:37.759 they're just dreamy and it's so easy to focus on 326 00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:40.599 the subject because that really super shallowed. 327 00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:40.839 Up the field. 328 00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:43.079 And what is that? 329 00:17:43.240 --> 00:17:43.359 Like? 330 00:17:43.359 --> 00:17:45.519 What kind of gear do you have to bring? Do 331 00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:49.000 you have a tiny, tiny little studio it's like a 332 00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:50.720 seamless that you put them on? 333 00:17:50.839 --> 00:17:51.920 Or are they like? 334 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:55.160 How how are you doing? How are you capturing these images? 335 00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:57.519 So? I mean a lot of what I do is 336 00:17:57.720 --> 00:18:00.359 is actually in the field. You know. Sometimes if I 337 00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:02.559 find something that's around the house, I'll ticket inside, so 338 00:18:02.599 --> 00:18:04.319 I catch it, wait till it settles down a little bit, 339 00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:06.200 it gets a little bit desensitized to me, and then 340 00:18:06.279 --> 00:18:09.319 I'll proceed with photographing it. Otherwise it is it's in 341 00:18:09.319 --> 00:18:09.759 the field. 342 00:18:09.920 --> 00:18:12.599 Has it taught you a lot about the ecology because 343 00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:15.480 you tend to see the same animals in certain. 344 00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:19.119 Spots, Yes, you know, And that's it's funny that you 345 00:18:19.160 --> 00:18:24.960 mentioned that because they within black af and stem I'm 346 00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:31.920 like the undisciplined, like low credential variety out of all 347 00:18:31.960 --> 00:18:33.880 of them, They're all like working on PhDs and this 348 00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:37.079 and that. I'm like, I got a bachelor's degree in sociology. 349 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:39.400 At this point, I was like, that doesn't mean you 350 00:18:39.400 --> 00:18:41.160 don't know your shit, and he was like, yeah, no, no, no, 351 00:18:41.319 --> 00:18:43.839 I know I'm kidding, but he was like polite about it. 352 00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:45.920 It's my hobby and what I do it does. It 353 00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:47.559 does teach me a lot about the ecology. Like I 354 00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:52.359 can name just like about every species of jumping spider 355 00:18:52.359 --> 00:18:55.440 in the state of Oklahoma. Definitely all the herbs. I 356 00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:58.440 can identify all of the frogs and toads in Oklahoma 357 00:18:58.440 --> 00:19:01.759 by ear. And you know, this is just things that 358 00:19:01.799 --> 00:19:03.279 you pick up as a habit because you do this 359 00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:05.440 all the time. If you don't learn this doing what 360 00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:07.000 you do is you're trying not to. 361 00:19:09.599 --> 00:19:13.359 What kind of apps or field guides do you tend 362 00:19:13.400 --> 00:19:14.640 to rely on more? 363 00:19:14.839 --> 00:19:17.319 Well, I have a few field guides now, most of 364 00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:21.480 them are herbs I have. I have a couple of 365 00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:23.839 bird guides now, I think I have the Sibly bird 366 00:19:23.839 --> 00:19:28.200 guide and I have a like a general insect guide 367 00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:30.400 as well, But I honestly I use bugguide dot net 368 00:19:30.440 --> 00:19:34.200 a lot. Okay, Yeah, that's a really good source when 369 00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:36.119 you're actually looking, when you have photos and you're trying 370 00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:39.200 to identify, you know, whatever, the the invertebrate that you 371 00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:42.480 found is like the biomass and biodiversity of arthropause is 372 00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:46.039 just so insane that you you have to be patient 373 00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:50.000 with yourself. You can't expect, you know, this level of 374 00:19:50.039 --> 00:19:53.000 expertise and this you are really diving into a specific 375 00:19:53.599 --> 00:20:00.079 family or genus of a group of animals, and this 376 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:04.599 identifies stuff often. Yeah, and that's perfectly fine because and 377 00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:10.119 so people will correct you. And that's that is part 378 00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:12.839 of the culture, is that you accept correction. There's nobody 379 00:20:12.920 --> 00:20:15.920 that gets really too upset about it, and it's just like, no, 380 00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:17.440 it's that and it's like, oh, okay, thanks. 381 00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:21.119 Joseph has met a ton of naturalist friends online, but 382 00:20:21.160 --> 00:20:23.319 he does most of his shooting in Oklahoma City, where 383 00:20:23.359 --> 00:20:26.400 he lives now. He told me that, well, Oklahoma prides 384 00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:29.920 itself on being the reddest of the Red States. One 385 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:32.759 great thing about Oklahoma is that a lot of people 386 00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:35.960 don't realize that it has, per capita, the most historical 387 00:20:36.039 --> 00:20:38.759 black towns than any other state. And you may, of 388 00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:41.640 course be familiar with the history of Tulsa's Greenwood District, 389 00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:43.880 which is also known as Black Wall Street, and that 390 00:20:43.960 --> 00:20:46.839 was the site of the Tulsa Race Massacre of nineteen 391 00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:50.119 twenty one. And he told me that Oklahoma's diverse population 392 00:20:50.359 --> 00:20:52.960 is partly the result of the trail of tears that 393 00:20:53.079 --> 00:20:57.680 forced indigenous people off their lands and other traumatic relocation 394 00:20:57.799 --> 00:21:00.400 practices from the Old South. But he went to college 395 00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:03.359 there and says at the time he was eating and 396 00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:07.240 sleeping and breathing basketball. But in all that time, maybe 397 00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:10.039 only had three black teammates. And I asked why he 398 00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:10.720 thinks that was. 399 00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:14.559 And I mean, black people are severely underrepresented in Wiltria basketball, 400 00:21:14.559 --> 00:21:15.759 at least they were at the time that I was 401 00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:17.599