Speaker 1: Hey, folks, we're recording at Chainlink's smart con and joining
Speaker 1: me today is Adrian Wall, who is the senior director
Speaker 1: of US Policy at tron Dow.
Speaker 2: Adrian, great to have.
Speaker 3: You, Thank you, it's great to be here.
Speaker 1: So Adrian, tell us about yourself and what is the
Speaker 1: tron Dow sure.
Speaker 3: So, as you mentioned, I am the senior director of
Speaker 3: Policy for TRONDW. What that means is, I'm focused on
Speaker 3: the policy side of what are those implications whenever we're
Speaker 3: talking about emerging tech, crypto, stable coin, blockchain, how should
Speaker 3: legislators be thinking about it? How do they need to
Speaker 3: be taking that information so that they can turn it
Speaker 3: into ethical and responsible policy that's also going to be effective,
Speaker 3: not an easy task. And then how do I bridge
Speaker 3: that gap between legislators and the public. So it's actually
Speaker 3: there's quite a bit into it. Tron has been incredible
Speaker 3: when it comes to wanting to engage with both sides,
Speaker 3: not just both sides of the aisle from a government perspective,
Speaker 3: but also both public and policy. So wanting to connect
Speaker 3: the community and what their needs are with what the
Speaker 3: legislator should be thinking about on Capitol Hill, right, and
Speaker 3: when you talk about what is Tron. Tron is one
Speaker 3: of the world's largest and most prolific blockchains, yep, right,
Speaker 3: And I think what's and that's both by transaction transaction
Speaker 3: volume and user base. Sure, And I think what's really
Speaker 3: interesting about Tron is their governance structure. So it's run
Speaker 3: as a DOW, a decentralized autonomous organization. And so what
Speaker 3: that means is the users, those who have the native
Speaker 3: coin trx, are the ones who are really in control
Speaker 3: of making decisions when it comes to infrastructure, how spending
Speaker 3: is down, in security and things like that. So I
Speaker 3: think it's a it's a fantastic model for what a
Speaker 3: DOW really should be. And on top of that, the
Speaker 3: last thing I'll say, it's built for speed, built for efficiency,
Speaker 3: built for security. So that's why it's one of the
Speaker 3: most popular in the world.
Speaker 1: The DOW setup is very fascinating and very unique because
Speaker 1: Tron being you know, one of the blockchains getting a
Speaker 1: lot of transactions, stable coin transaction so far, having a
Speaker 1: DOW setup is very different from what everybody else is doing,
Speaker 1: which is really great, and it gives the community more
Speaker 1: skin in the game, more ability to have a voice
Speaker 1: and things like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, and I think it's a paradigm for what
Speaker 3: the future ought to look like when you talk about
Speaker 3: real decentralized models, decentralized finance. This is what we really
Speaker 3: mean when we refer to those types of terms. So
Speaker 3: I think tron Is it's always been visionary, It's always
Speaker 3: been ahead of the curve when it comes to basically
Speaker 3: setting the tone of what where the industry is going towards.
Speaker 3: So this is no exception.
Speaker 1: Now, recently I noticed, well I shouldn't say recently, but
Speaker 1: as far as my introduction into the amount of volume
Speaker 1: of like tether stable coins on tront, it's been pretty incredible.
Speaker 1: So it seems like tron Is or tel uses a
Speaker 1: tront a lot from an issuing standpoint, can tell us
Speaker 1: a bit about that. And are you working closely with
Speaker 1: tether or you know, as far as how that's done
Speaker 1: and all that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, Well, I think the best part about it
Speaker 3: is it's the market that speaks. It's the users that
Speaker 3: choose to use tron to do their USDT transactions and
Speaker 3: why because of the reasons we just mentioned right the
Speaker 3: now governance is a big part of it. That transparency,
Speaker 3: that user control, the speed, the low cost the security.
Speaker 3: All those things are what people want and they find
Speaker 3: it on the Tron blockchain, So that's it's a very
Speaker 3: natural and organic. We have a great relationship with the
Speaker 3: Tether team, but nobody is forcing anybody to do their
Speaker 3: trans you do use USDT on Tron, nobody's forcing them
Speaker 3: to do that. It's a choice, sure, and I love
Speaker 3: that It's a choice people can choose, and so the
Speaker 3: market decides what is the best way to do things,
Speaker 3: what is the best product?
Speaker 2: Oh, for sure.
Speaker 1: So as far as use cases, is Tron you know
Speaker 1: as a blockchain being used for to organization, meeting, coins, NFTs,
Speaker 1: things like that.
Speaker 2: Can people do all those things on.
Speaker 3: Tron trying can be used for a wide range of applications.
Speaker 3: In this case, I think you're going to see as
Speaker 3: we see tokenization start to take off and become more
Speaker 3: and more mainstream, you're going to see a lot more
Speaker 3: of those types of transactions on Tron because whether you're
Speaker 3: doing stable coin or you're doing tokenization, it's the underlying
Speaker 3: rail that is the same, safe, secure, and low cost,
Speaker 3: and I think you're going to see a lot of
Speaker 3: especially if we talk about I love tokenization because it's
Speaker 3: all about liquidity. It's all about taking real world assets
Speaker 3: and then putting them on rails, right, and so now
Speaker 3: we can get really creative. I mean, people are always
Speaker 3: talking about short term investments, short term instruments, tea bills,
Speaker 3: tokenizing tea bills, et cetera. But where is traditionally liquidity
Speaker 3: really hard to find? Real estate for example. Yeah, I
Speaker 3: saw a little bit of the fine art NFTs. Anywhere
Speaker 3: where you have traditionally very difficult to find liquidity access,
Speaker 3: it's perfect for tokenization. And so I think that's where
Speaker 3: we're going to see a lot of innovation that's exciting.
Speaker 1: And I've noticed a lot of building on TRON, not
Speaker 1: just in the United States but outside the United States.
Speaker 1: So trying seems to be very popular in certain markets.
Speaker 1: You know, tell us a bit about the international strategy
Speaker 1: and getting and meeting with different folks in different countries
Speaker 1: to build on TRONT.
Speaker 3: One of the things I love about Tron is that
Speaker 3: they are very intentional when they think about the needs
Speaker 3: of their users, right, but at the same time, they
Speaker 3: want to make sure that the users are the ones
Speaker 3: that are validating that thought process or those deliberate actions.
Speaker 3: So they may have these ideas that are very specific
Speaker 3: to the developing countries in Africa or Southeast Asia or
Speaker 3: Latin America. The same time, there has to be some
Speaker 3: thought into the sort of the hyperlocalization that comes along
Speaker 3: with those each of those geographies. So TRON on one
Speaker 3: hand is being very deliberate about their expansion strategy, but
Speaker 3: at the same time, everything comes down to the user base.
Speaker 3: What are they really looking for And there's a lot
Speaker 3: of commonality so on the you know, in developing nations.
Speaker 3: Stable coin is a fantastic way for users to have
Speaker 3: access to financial markets that they wouldn't normally have. TRON
Speaker 3: is always talking about banking the unbanked. Sure, yeah, and
Speaker 3: so I always like to say that financial literacy financial inclusion.
Speaker 3: I always like to say financial inclusion without financial literacy
Speaker 3: is a bridge to nowhere. It's access without empowerment and
Speaker 3: so on TRON there's the opportunity for that access. But
Speaker 3: through a lot of the initiatives that TRON has, there
Speaker 3: are so many educational resources out there, and that's another
Speaker 3: one of the things that I do at TRON as
Speaker 3: the senior policy director is I'm also working on some
Speaker 3: of that education con and making sure that everybody has
Speaker 3: access to understand how to really best leverage these technologies.
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, And education is such a core piece because
Speaker 1: we're so early, you know, it's kind of analogous to
Speaker 1: the early days of the Internet, where everybody's like, what
Speaker 1: is the internet?
Speaker 2: How do I use the email? I have to dial up?
Speaker 1: It feels like we're very much here because there's billions
Speaker 1: of people who don't understand.
Speaker 3: This one hundred percent. And so the way I look
Speaker 3: at it, on one hand, you can think that's a
Speaker 3: daunting task. There are a billion people or way more
Speaker 3: than that, actually, way more they need to learn this.
Speaker 3: But on the other hand, it's like the sky's the
Speaker 3: limit at this point, right, and so we have the
Speaker 3: opportunity to get in at the ground level and offer
Speaker 3: people an alternative. And not just in developing world, this
Speaker 3: stuff is really relevant here in the US.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So I do a lot of work with without naming names,
Speaker 3: I do a lot of work with legislators on both
Speaker 3: sides of the aisle in congressional districts, working with community
Speaker 3: leaders to make sure that they have the understanding and
Speaker 3: the education of all these technologies. They can then pass
Speaker 3: that message on to their community. Members of their community
Speaker 3: because it's one thing if I were to go in
Speaker 3: and say, you know, stable coins can help you do this.
Speaker 3: DeFi can help you do this if you don't have
Speaker 3: documentation and you don't have access to a bank, here's
Speaker 3: an alternative. But that message is so much stronger if
Speaker 3: you get a local community leader. He really understands the
Speaker 3: pain points and the challenges that they have to go
Speaker 3: through on a day to day basis, and they can
Speaker 3: take that material and sort of put it through that
Speaker 3: kind of lens. That message hits home really hard. And
Speaker 3: then now you start to see that kind of adoption
Speaker 3: increase dramatically. In those places where we've done that work,
Speaker 3: we've seen huge jumps in adoption.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, talk to us about what you're seeing here
Speaker 1: in the United States, because I mean, this year has
Speaker 1: been incredible for crypto from a regulation and policy standpoint.
Speaker 1: We get the Genius Act that passed, you have a
Speaker 1: favorable environment, and you got the Market Structure Bill in
Speaker 1: the Senate.
Speaker 2: What are you seeing in DC and what are you
Speaker 2: hearing now?
Speaker 3: You're talking my language, all right, So let's talk Genius
Speaker 3: Actor real Q huge incredible momentum that we had getting
Speaker 3: that pass that was a watershed moment for the industry.
Speaker 3: It was an easier to tackle, easier topic to tackle
Speaker 3: because stable coins fundamentally are easier to understand for the legislators,
Speaker 3: which was a perfect way for them to kind of
Speaker 3: get their feet wet. We did a lot of work
Speaker 3: on Capitol Hill, meeting with legislators and their staffers, getting
Speaker 3: everybody up to speed on the potential and the possibilities.
Speaker 3: Some took to it like a duck to water. Some
Speaker 3: needed a little bit more I wouldn't say coaxing, but
Speaker 3: they need a little bit more help. So we spent
Speaker 3: a little bit more time in their offers, and then
Speaker 3: some of them were just meh, Okay, this is not
Speaker 3: top of mind for me because I've got so many
Speaker 3: other priorities in my whether it's state or district. Sure,
Speaker 3: but those meetings were were all there, everybody was listening.
Speaker 3: Compare that to I'd say, four years ago, even if
Speaker 3: you got in the door, I mean by the ears
Speaker 3: were close, ears were shut, eyes were shut, nobody was
Speaker 3: paying attention. So genius was fantastic. Now clarity, my take
Speaker 3: on it is a little different to I think most
Speaker 3: people in the industry. I'm actually quite optimistic that we're
Speaker 3: going to get Clarity passed this year. Probably not. We're
Speaker 3: probably looking at Q one Q two of next year. Sure,
Speaker 3: but I know for a fact that there are legislators
Speaker 3: on both sides of the Aisle right now as we speak,
Speaker 3: that are working on this on the Clarity Act, drafting
Speaker 3: new language to make sure that both sides their concerns
Speaker 3: are being heard. They're doing it. BIPARTI is in reaching
Speaker 3: across the aisle in good faith, and that gives me
Speaker 3: a lot of encouragement. The government shut down, yeah, it
Speaker 3: didn't help, kind of slowed things down, right, but whereas
Speaker 3: I think a lot of people are are very pessimistic
Speaker 3: and they think Clarity is dead, it is not dead
Speaker 3: at all.
Speaker 2: That is for next year. Absolutely, that's great to hear.
Speaker 1: That is some progress happening despite even government shut down.
Speaker 1: And boy, if we can have that the latest Q
Speaker 1: one twenty twenty s or like you said, Q two,
Speaker 1: that would be amazing. And you know, once that's passed,
Speaker 1: are you expecting like a boom and innovation and more
Speaker 1: entrepreneurs and innovators and things like that.
Speaker 3: One hundred percent. I mean, people are just lined up
Speaker 3: waiting for this stuff for this legislation of pass, then
Speaker 3: the innovation is just going to exponentially skyrocket. It's going
Speaker 3: to be a hockey stick curve.
Speaker 2: Oh and I.
Speaker 3: Cannot wait for it because even the things that I
Speaker 3: hear just at conferences like this, I mean there's there
Speaker 3: are some wildly innovative ideas. I used to think streaming
Speaker 3: payments was like hot shit, but like, and I don't
Speaker 3: know if I can say that on here, but I
Speaker 3: used streaming payments was hot shit. No, man, not at
Speaker 3: all that that's like that was you know yesterday. If
Speaker 3: you're still talking streaming payments, I mean you're behind right.
Speaker 3: These people are taking programmability to the next level, and
Speaker 3: I think it's incredibly cool what's coming down the pipeline. So, yes,
Speaker 3: I'm in policy. I should mention that I'm also the
Speaker 3: managing director of Digital Sovereignty Alliance DSA. For sure, it's
Speaker 3: a nonprofit based in DC that does the education and
Speaker 3: advocacy work for crypto for AI a lot of this
Speaker 3: work that we're doing. Capitol Hill and tront is also
Speaker 3: a huge supporter of that initiative as well. But I
Speaker 3: also come from an investment background, and so I've looked
Speaker 3: at I've spent decades looking at investment opportunities in crypto,
Speaker 3: in emerging tech, sure, and now the time has never
Speaker 3: been better than now for really interesting innovative ideas at
Speaker 3: reasonable valuations. And so it's an exciting time all around
Speaker 3: for everybody.
Speaker 2: For sure.
Speaker 1: And I mean certainly appreciate all the great work you're doing, DC,
Speaker 1: because it's so crucial to get these policy makers and
Speaker 1: the politicians up to speed and what's happening in the
Speaker 1: potential of this technology and much more. It feels like,
Speaker 1: you know, the nineties where Bill Clinton and Al Gore
Speaker 1: and you know they did the right thing and finding
Speaker 1: the balance not over regulating the Internet, well, letting it flour. Yes,
Speaker 1: you have to put some guardrails in place, but we
Speaker 1: know the rest is history and what came out of that.
Speaker 3: Call me crazy, but I think this, I think crypto
Speaker 3: presents an opportunity to actually repair some of that hostility
Speaker 3: that you're seeing between the two parties right now. I
Speaker 3: can't speak for all topics. I mean there's some real
Speaker 3: rancor out there, right but everyone can get behind the
Speaker 3: idea of safer, faster, better payment rails. Yeah, and an
Speaker 3: opportunity to lift people who are in marginalized communities, who
Speaker 3: are struggling financially to learn a new way of balancing
Speaker 3: their budgets, of making the financial system work for them.
Speaker 2: Right, everyone can get behind that, absolutely right.
Speaker 3: So I feel like once and they're listening, So both
Speaker 3: sides of the aisle now, I think this is an
Speaker 3: area where they can come together.
Speaker 1: And even just a simple fact of you know you,
Speaker 1: in addition to what you're saying, you can create a
Speaker 1: lot of jobs and boot you know, help boost the economy.
Speaker 2: It's not just gonna be crypto. It's gonna be AI
Speaker 2: and other things.
Speaker 1: But if we're at the dawn of the next tech boom, right,
Speaker 1: like we've seen Web two and then Web one before that,
Speaker 1: we got to embrace this and open it up so
Speaker 1: people can work and make money.
Speaker 3: And you know, one hundred percent and to that point,
Speaker 3: trad fight, get your act together, bro, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean, fucking get your shit together, and like let's
Speaker 3: go stop playing defense and stop being a stick in
Speaker 3: the mud and get on board with like where the
Speaker 3: rest of the world is going. And and I've seen
Speaker 3: a lot of it there. I don't want to I
Speaker 3: don't want to, like shame the entire industry. I am
Speaker 3: starting to see it's not so much exploration as it
Speaker 3: was a year ago. It's a trad file was kind
Speaker 3: of exploring the idea of crypto. Now they're integrating. You're
Speaker 3: seeing stable coin payments being integrated into mainstream banks. You
Speaker 3: are seeing DeFi access being integrated on a smaller extent.
Speaker 3: But you're seeing tokenization. Tokenized deposits is a hot topic now.
Speaker 3: So I like where that's going. We need more of that.
Speaker 1: So I don't know if you can how much desaers
Speaker 1: you can share here. But is TRON approaching these institutions
Speaker 1: who are looking to tokenize and do all these things
Speaker 1: to try to, you know, be the rail so to speak,
Speaker 1: for them to build on.
Speaker 3: So I, without going to too much detail, TRON is
Speaker 3: being very supportive of first policy. Let's get the policy
Speaker 3: right without kind of getting ahead of ourselves. Sure, because
Speaker 3: if we don't get that right, any energy we spend
Speaker 3: going directly to Fi's and saying, hey, you know, we're
Speaker 3: the blockchain you should use.
Speaker 2: Sure, it's a moot point. Sure.
Speaker 3: And the other thing. As I said at the beginning
Speaker 3: of this, TRON is fantastic when it comes to letting
Speaker 3: the user, letting the customer decide what makes the most
Speaker 3: sense for them. There's no we are putting out what
Speaker 3: we think is the best product. If I put my
Speaker 3: Tron hat on, we're putting out what we think is
Speaker 3: the best product, and it's up to the market to
Speaker 3: decide whether we made the right choice or not. I
Speaker 3: think we're going to take that same approach in the
Speaker 3: US in the development as we have in other places.
Speaker 3: It's worked out everywhere else. Sure, no reason why it
Speaker 3: wouldn't work out here.
Speaker 1: It's exciting times, Adrian, and I'm looking forward to the
Speaker 1: passing of the Market Structure Bill and even future updates
Speaker 1: are on tron.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining Sure my pleasure anytime.
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