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Speaker 1: Hi.

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Speaker 2: This is Gerar Daleman's from Booie, Maryland and I play

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at Enterprise Golf Course.

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Speaker 1: This is Golf.

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Speaker 2: Smarter number nine hundred and seventy two. I tell people

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all the time the Limp model. If you've ever been

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to one that I've been to several, and they're really fun,

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they're exciting, the players are excited to be there. And

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it's a team concept. Team Golfworks, who've had the tour

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partner with them from the beginning. And let's say, let's

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do this. Let's have an Irish team, Let's have a

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South African team, Let's have a Mexican team, a Spanish team,

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a South Korean team, a Canadian team. We'll have a

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Texas team, We'll have a Sea Island team, We'll have

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a California team, and fourteen times a year we will

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get together. And this is kind of like a Ryder

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Cup instead of it in USA and Europe. And all

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these teams from around the world are coming to play

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the Irish team. How many T shirts and acts of

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that Irish jerseys which you sell, and no one understands

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the licensing concept behind this. I think five point seven

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billion dollars is spent every year in college football licensed

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purcha ducks. Ever been a licensing opportunity in golf until

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this There is with the Ryder Cup, which happens every

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two years. We'll think about having an event at Bethpage

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Black and it's the Americans Texas, Sea Island, Scottsdale Versus Ireland.

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Here comes Rory McElroy and Sean take the best players

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from those countries like we do at the Ryder Cup

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and do it fourteen times a year.

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Speaker 1: Is the PGA Tour doomed? And we're going to get

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some controversial insights from golf agent Mac Barnard.

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Speaker 2: This is Golf Smarter, sharing stories, tips and insights from

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great golf minds to help you lower your score and

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raise your golf IQ. Here's your host, Fred Green.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Golf Smarter podcast.

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Speaker 2: Mac Hey, thanks for letting maybe have you come on. Brett,

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It's good to meet you.

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Speaker 1: It's good to have you on. This is really special

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because I've never had the opportunity to speak to a

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golf agent before, and so now that I've let that

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out of the bag, explain it is to me what

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you do?

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Speaker 2: Okay, well, after me, you probably won't have one on Again,

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our business as an agent is a little different than

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what a baseball or football or basketball agent is. They

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sign a kid from college and then they sell him

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to a team. That's their job. There may see be

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some little a few other deals they may do, but

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that's pretty much their job. Golfers, they'll have a high

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school coach, to have a college coach. When they turn pro,

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they are on their own. They have no peers, no bady.

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So we're agents in the sense that we are trying

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to get deals and create some revenue. We're also the

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manager or the gm We're the ones that manage the caddies,

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the teachers, they're trainers, they're psychologists, all trying to pull

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together for them. Most of these kids have never had

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a job, much less run a company, and so now

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they've got three, four or five employees. They have to

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have an accountant they have, so we're the guys that

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kind of oversee all those things. We do all their logistics,

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so we their hotels, flights, cars, whatever they need, we

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handle that and pretty much in our company we do

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everything but hit balls form when it comes to golf.

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So it's it's a little different than just being that

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you know, suit and tie agent going in and you know,

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trying to negotiate these deals. There's a lot that goes

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into it. And from you know, from thirty four years

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of this, the stuff that we do there has more

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effect on their performance than anything else that we do.

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Speaker 1: I would think. So it's interesting because for the years

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that I've been doing this, I've frequently talked about how

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a professional golfer is their own team. We don't talk

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a lot about what happens on the tour. We may

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talk about the people on the tour, but we don't

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talk about what happens on the tour last week and

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what's going to be next week and with the gambling ons,

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That's not what we talk about on this show. It's

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how do we become better golfers, smarter golfers. And I've

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talked a lot about how, you know, professional golfer is it.

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He's got to do all of it and manage it himself.

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So I've always been fascinated by that concept, where, like

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you said, baseball, football, basketball, these agents got to come

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in and make promises to these kids and their parents

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of what they're going to be able to de liver

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and try to become their best friend, right, And in

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a way, those agents have to look these kids in

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the eye, look the parents in the eye, and feel

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comfortable about lying to them in this in like making

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promises that you know, I'm going to be your number

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one guy. I'm there for you all the time until

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the next phenom comes along, and then they've got to

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move on and grow their business and get other agents. Well,

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he's going to be working with your son now and

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I'm going to be moving you know, happens all the time,

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but that's not how it works for golf. So it's

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fascinating to know that you're not coming in to say

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we're negotiating a deal with PGA or live for you. No,

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that's not what you do. No.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, on the contrary, you know, these agents

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that are having to quote lie to these guys. They

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may have a client for four, six, eight years. I

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have clients for thirty years. Wow, I'm interviewing them as

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much as they're interviewing me. These are people that we

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are close to, I mean as close as my family.

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And so you can imagine we have a rule that

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you know, I've had to let a couple of clients

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go because I see their name pop up on my

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phone and my stomach turns and life's too short. And

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when you've got fifty clients or fifty three clients, this

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is a partnership with us. They make bogies. We make bogies,

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so you know when you're I always tell people I

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won't sign a client if I can't take them to dinner.

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And why said, well, I want to treat see how

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he treats people that serve him, because I'm going to

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be serving him and I want to see his reactions

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and how he does things because I don't want to

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be locked into a relationship. It isn't about the money

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and just to go whoever can make you the money.

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These are people that I mean, you're going to have

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to go sell them, market them. You've got to believe

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in them and who they are and what they are.

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And you can bypass a lot of problems in the

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recruiting process, but not signing those people that are just

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going to be really pains in the ours. And so

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it's a little different. Just it's not a transactional thing.

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Now there is groups in my business that they they'll

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come in and say, look, I'm the best in the

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business and I'm going to be your main guy. And

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I tell these people there's no way he's going to

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be your main guy. If you've got this player, they'll

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say that, they get them into contract and they ship

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them off, and that happens a lot. Now we're a

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lot different. There's a bunch of us in the business.

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You may have somebody you may want to be your guy,

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and you can have it. Somebody wants me to be

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their guy. They call me all the time. But in reality,

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you're going to see a lot of different of us

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out because you know, there's a lot of GOP being

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played and we're all around the world. So that's the

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different part. There are people that get in our business

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that think it's like that I'm going to woo this

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guy and I'm going to convince him to sign with me.

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We're going to see a kid on Tuesday in Florida,

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and they're like, what are we telling? I said, we

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tell him who we are and how we do our jobs.

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We wanted to pick kit. We want him to pick

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us because he knows who we are. We don't want

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to try to tell him what he wants to hear

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to sign him, because then you're in that whole different

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dynamic of the relationship. And there are no promises in golf.

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The people might make them, I can't tell you what

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you're going to do, so it's a little different.

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Speaker 1: Winning on the tour once is a big deal for

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a player's career.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's amazing if you want to. I mean, there's

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a lot of one time winners, and then that list

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of two time winners goes down, and then five time

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winners go down, and people ask me what is that,

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and I said, well, I've got a guy that we

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use this terminology called talent minus. Talent minus distractions equals performance,

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and distractions are a lot. I got a twenty two

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year old kids, got not a care in the world,

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and then he gets married, then he has a kid,

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then he has another kid, then he wins a golf tournament.

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Now he's got new friends. Now he's got more media request,

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now he's got more contracts. So all these shirt, these

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logos you see on these players, that's not just the logo,

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that's time. So all those logos may have two, three,

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four days a time. So now they're distracted, they're not

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practicing like that twenty two year old free willing. Then

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they buy a couple million dollar house, get them a

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ten thousand dollars a month mortgage. So they're just all

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these things that happen they win that first time. But

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really the main thing, and I just had this conversation

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with a kid, is expectations will destroy you faster than

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anything you have. And we try to convince them that

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when you win a golf tournament, it doesn't mean the

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next week you play, you're going to play well. I

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think you know, Davis Love was in client for a

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long time and Davis won twenty one times in his career.

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Now that's pretty amazing, right.

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Speaker 1: That's a phenomenal career.

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Speaker 2: And I think he's played seven hundred and sixty one tournaments,

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so he's lost seven hundred and forty times. Now, losing

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has got you know, and that's the other thing. You know,

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amateur kids are used to winning. Winning out here is

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creating a living. And it's not necessarily you know, winning

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getting trophies, but it's a special there's a special talent

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or a frame of mind to do what Tiger and

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Phil and these guys do that they can go win

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and they don't let the expectation bother them. You'll see

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a lot of guys I don't want to go. Max

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Holme is a guy that has shown up and really

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great player, and he's not playing well right now. And

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I don't know am I do not represent him, but

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I imagine the expectation that now every time he hits a shot,

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it has to be the best shot he's ever hit.

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I mean it drove Ian Baker Finch off the tour

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when he won the British Open a long time ago.

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So we try to keep the expectations. Once that tournament's over,

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you're back to square one and you react to what

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you're going to do. Now you can all of a

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sudden win one tournament and think, well I should win

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all and I have those kids go I'm not playing well.

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I'm like, you're playing like you always do, Like you're

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doing just fine. But the competition keep people playing. But

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that list that goes from one winner to twice, winning

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five times and then to get to ten times, I mean,

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it's it's it's a miracle.

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Speaker 1: It is when you talk about going out to dinner

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with them to see how they treat people. Early on,

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we did an episode a long time ago we were

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talking about doing business on the golf course.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And the advice was never do business on the golf course.

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What you do on the golf course is learn if

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you want to do business with that person.

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Speaker 2: Well, put will put. Yeah, your life can be a

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lot better if every client you sign you believe in.

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You have a trust in them, they have a trust

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to you. There's not this you know, what have you

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done for me lately type attitude. I mean, unfortunately for

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everybody in my business. And there may be some guys

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tell you I'm lying. How well you play determines directly

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how much money you make on and off the golf course.

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When Davis Love or Justin Leonard won a major championship,

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I just had to be by the phone. It was

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going to ring. And if you've got a guy shooting

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seventy five every week, I don't care who you call,

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you're not going to sell them. So most most of

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the deals that are done are incoming. There's not someone

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out selling. There's not somebody going door to door in

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New York City. Is that you have relationships with these companies.

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I'm always calling companies and saying I've signed these two

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players out of college. Bill, I know you're not looking

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for anyone, but these two guys. I want you to

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know who they are, so when they show up and

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I call you, you'll know what I'm talking about. So

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I spend a lot of time sharing companies my clients

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without selling them. I just want you to because I

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build relationship with you know, American Express, whoever. I always

242
00:12:02,919 --> 00:12:04,960
like to just introduce them to my new guys. I said,

243
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keeping eye on these kids and the watch and see

244
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if he fits what you want, because it's not. I can't.

245
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I don't. I see guys on tour. There's a player

246
00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:17,679
out there that's got to He's got an endorsement deal

247
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with a company, and I promise you he doesn't have

248
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how to use the product. And I don't like unauthentic

249
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endorsements because they're going to go spend time at these companies.

250
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In other words, you know, so Bass pro Shops, you know,

251
00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,600
credible company. I'm not going to put someone that doesn't

252
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hunt and fish with Bass Pro Shops because their appearances

253
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are going to be at hunting shows or fishing shows,

254
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and I want them to be excited about going and

255
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doing it. You know, the guys that love finance, I

256
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love getting them a deal with the you know with

257
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the finance company. So when they go to announting, they're involved

258
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in that element that they get to enjoy instead of

259
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it being I've got to go do this because those

260
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people become their family too, and I want them you know,

261
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if I say, look, you gotta go to you got

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to go to LA and spend the day with company ABC,

263
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I want them to go.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

265
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Speaker 2: I mean, I can't wait to see those guys. And

266
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that's a much better than are you kidding me? I

267
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got to go all the way out there and do

268
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that for a day, day or something. So so a

269
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lot of that goes into what we try to do

270
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to make their lives own and off the golf course

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a lot more pleasurable.

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Speaker 1: It's a funny minute ago you were talking about taking

273
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a client out. He says, I'm going to take you

274
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to LA and we're going to meet a company ABC,

275
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and you feel like you had air quotes around ABC

276
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as if it's a random company. But if you go

277
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to LA and you're meeting with ABC, that's probably a

278
00:13:35,799 --> 00:13:40,720
network exactly right, like oops, x X acts okay, so

279
00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:43,639
or ex would be a bad example as well. So

280
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how do you weed out the sponsors? How do you

281
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determine and I understand it's like you want them to

282
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be able to know the product. Like my I have

283
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a client that I to production for called Protivity, and

284
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I've been with him like fourteen years or something, and

285
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:07,120
Protivity you can now see it on Matts Fitzpatrick's shirt. Yep.

286
00:14:07,799 --> 00:14:11,679
Now it's a good fit. They're an international consulting firm

287
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and they're really into spreadsheets and you know, the numbers

288
00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:18,200
and stuff. Well, Matt Fitzpatrick is kind of perfect for

289
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,559
that because he's such a geek on his numbers. So

290
00:14:21,759 --> 00:14:24,320
matching him up with a product or with a sponsor

291
00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,679
that they understand the product is really what you have

292
00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:29,200
to do.

293
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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'll give you an example. Lucas Glover is

294
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a client and I'm older than him, but I was

295
00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:39,559
having a problem with sleep apnea and Lucas said, and

296
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:40,759
I said, but I don't have time to do a

297
00:14:40,799 --> 00:14:44,039
sleep test. And Lucas says, hey, there's a company I

298
00:14:44,159 --> 00:14:46,440
use because Lucas uses a sleep apne machine, has for

299
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:49,240
several years, and they do a test. You can do

300
00:14:49,279 --> 00:14:52,600
it anywhere. They'll send you the test, it downloads, they'll

301
00:14:52,639 --> 00:14:55,480
tell you the diagnosis. They can then prescribe, send the product.

302
00:14:55,879 --> 00:14:58,279
So I do this. I go and I'm on the road.

303
00:14:58,279 --> 00:14:59,879
I do it. They come back, you got sleep at

304
00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,320
I knew I did. They say, here's what you got

305
00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,039
to do. I talk to a doctor. They send me

306
00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,960
the machine to my next tour stop. In the hotel.

307
00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:08,879
I use it for the first night. Best not a

308
00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:12,000
sleep I've had in thirty years. So I call that

309
00:15:12,039 --> 00:15:14,840
company and go, hey, why are you not advertising golf?

310
00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,320
Why are you not involved with this? Because this is

311
00:15:18,799 --> 00:15:22,360
and honestly, we're trying to work that deal out and

312
00:15:22,399 --> 00:15:24,720
it's not me going trying to make money. But I

313
00:15:24,759 --> 00:15:27,039
look at a company that says I didn't know about this.

314
00:15:27,919 --> 00:15:29,960
How many people travel that don't have the time to

315
00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:32,960
go to a sleep or sleep in a lab. You

316
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:34,919
guys should be out here selling this thing, and we're

317
00:15:34,919 --> 00:15:37,399
trying to work on that. But a lot of that

318
00:15:37,519 --> 00:15:40,679
kind of stuff, you know. I meet people all the

319
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,840
time with companies and they think it's five million dollars

320
00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:45,840
to sponsor a player, and I'm like, oh gosh, no,

321
00:15:46,039 --> 00:15:49,320
you can get a lot tons less than that. So

322
00:15:49,639 --> 00:15:53,279
I'm always trying to clarify with companies what's available and

323
00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,240
what can they get out of it. You know, we

324
00:15:55,279 --> 00:16:00,279
don't use much ROI. Unfortunately, it's almost impossible to tell

325
00:16:00,279 --> 00:16:03,600
you what's seeing a logo on somebody's shirt is. But

326
00:16:03,759 --> 00:16:07,320
we do know that in golf, the demographic watching golf

327
00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:12,600
has more spendable income, and so having your logoing golf

328
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:18,159
does raise the company's value because you know this is

329
00:16:18,159 --> 00:16:20,759
a higher demographic. And that's not mean, but I bet

330
00:16:20,759 --> 00:16:23,279
the per capital of earnings of a golf fan is

331
00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,639
more than a wrestling fan. And it's not dot dot calm.

332
00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:28,679
So a lot of the companies you see, they just

333
00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:33,080
get a lot of it raises the awareness to probably

334
00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,039
a demographic that can afford it. And that's why you

335
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:37,799
see role As, you see America Express, you see MasterCards.

336
00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:39,840
So but a lot of that, you know it. And

337
00:16:39,879 --> 00:16:43,759
again after thirty some years, I probably know everyone every

338
00:16:43,759 --> 00:16:48,279
one in these companies, you know workday and most of

339
00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,399
these executives, the CEOs, the reason they're in golf is

340
00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:52,279
they love golf.

341
00:16:52,519 --> 00:16:55,720
Speaker 1: They love golf, they play golf. Yeah, that's with protivity

342
00:16:55,759 --> 00:16:59,639
as well. And when Matt Fitzpatrick won a major, that

343
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:04,759
money morning protivities. They reported back to me that protivitis

344
00:17:05,079 --> 00:17:08,000
web traffic was massively increased.

345
00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,079
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely. I mean now with Google, you said, with

346
00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:12,720
your following, and you're sitting there and you see that

347
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,240
what company is that you punch it in and that

348
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,000
you never know? But that's why, that's why God has

349
00:17:18,039 --> 00:17:21,759
been so popular amongst those companies. And and you know,

350
00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:26,599
I've told people, you know, four minutes the ear to

351
00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:28,880
the masters, and you get four minutes of time with

352
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,039
that logo. You've paid for ten years of that deal,

353
00:17:32,799 --> 00:17:36,559
just like that, and so but a lot of is education.

354
00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,519
But the great thing about it is like if you

355
00:17:39,519 --> 00:17:41,920
go to Augusta, if you go to the US Open,

356
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:45,799
if you go to Pebble Beach, all those CEOs they're

357
00:17:45,839 --> 00:17:47,519
all right there and you can just walk up and

358
00:17:47,559 --> 00:17:49,759
talk to them. And I can't tell you a many

359
00:17:49,759 --> 00:17:51,920
times I've brought a player over to introduce them to

360
00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:55,559
a CEO. And you see the CEOs of multi billion

361
00:17:55,599 --> 00:17:58,160
dollar companies and they look like a twelve year old

362
00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:01,759
and they I've had. I had one CEO asked for

363
00:18:01,799 --> 00:18:03,640
an autograph, which blew me away, and it was the

364
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:05,880
sweetest thing I've ever seen. And I thought, here's a

365
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:08,279
guy I'm making more money you can ever spend he's

366
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,720
this powerful guy and he wants this guy's autograph. I said,

367
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:13,920
that is and that makes GOP cool, you know, I

368
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:15,680
mean that's yeah, it doesn't make it cool.

369
00:18:17,079 --> 00:18:20,920
Speaker 1: It does make it cool, but it doesn't ensure the

370
00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:25,079
financial future of the game. And it seems as if

371
00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:31,279
the prize money continues to go up but may not

372
00:18:31,519 --> 00:18:36,079
translate to viewers on TV, which is probably where most

373
00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:41,279
of the revenue comes from. Right, Okay, So walk me

374
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:46,319
through what's going to happen. How are they going to

375
00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,960
make this work where players can continue to generate a

376
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:56,119
tremendous amount of income from winning if the league, when

377
00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:59,680
I'll call it the PGA at this point, PGA Tour, Yeah,

378
00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:01,799
may not be able to afford to do this.

379
00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've had quite we've had quite a disruption in

380
00:19:05,279 --> 00:19:08,319
the last three four years with the thing called liv GOFF,

381
00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:09,839
which was a new team concept.

382
00:19:10,039 --> 00:19:10,640
Speaker 1: Never heard of it.

383
00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:18,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the premise behind it obviously is different than

384
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,480
the PGA Tour. So I just walked through, somebody through

385
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,160
this about where we are on the money. So pre

386
00:19:24,319 --> 00:19:28,839
nineteen ninety five, the tour was probably growing at a

387
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:32,200
five to seven percent rate. You know, they had Jack

388
00:19:32,279 --> 00:19:34,920
Nicholas and Arnold and then they had Greg Norman, John

389
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,279
Daly came in. What a show that was. But it

390
00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:40,599
comes creeping growing. It wasn't nineteen ninety two. I had

391
00:19:40,599 --> 00:19:43,039
a client keep his tour card making ninety two thousand

392
00:19:43,079 --> 00:19:43,960
dollars for the year.

393
00:19:44,079 --> 00:19:45,000
Speaker 1: Wow.

394
00:19:45,559 --> 00:19:48,720
Speaker 2: And then this kid named Tiger Woods showed up. And

395
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,039
that wasn't a draft pick by the tour. The tour

396
00:19:51,079 --> 00:19:53,440
didn't hold a big draft and draft Tiger Woods. Tiger

397
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,880
Woods showed up, played in a tournament and obviously between

398
00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,319
him and mister Nicholas, two best players ever. And he

399
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:03,039
brought in the to the tour that was never seen before.

400
00:20:03,559 --> 00:20:06,759
So here's this little five or seven percent uptick each

401
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:11,519
year of growth, and it grew five thousand percent. Tiger

402
00:20:11,559 --> 00:20:15,400
shows up, and the Tiger effect was, I mean, contracts

403
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:19,160
for all of them, like off course contracts, they would

404
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,200
go up in tenfold. I didn't get any better negotiating it.

405
00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:27,039
Just he raised the market level. So they got on this.

406
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:28,480
Speaker 1: He brought eyeballs to the game.

407
00:20:28,759 --> 00:20:32,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like excitement that's never seen. No one has

408
00:20:32,519 --> 00:20:34,839
seen this kind of game. And so this went on

409
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:36,799
for a long time and they rode this. I mean,

410
00:20:36,839 --> 00:20:40,119
the TV contracts went up and everyone benefited from Tiger.

411
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:42,240
If anybody thinks the reason they make a lot of

412
00:20:42,279 --> 00:20:44,519
money is for any other reason, Tiger was the wrong.

413
00:20:44,559 --> 00:20:47,920
It was Tiger, and it gosh, Tiger made me a

414
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,680
lot of money. I mean, just because my contracts for

415
00:20:50,799 --> 00:20:53,279
my clients went up. So that just kept going on.

416
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,920
And so through time you kind of get and we use.

417
00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,319
I have two Navy seals that train train my players

418
00:21:01,319 --> 00:21:05,319
in performance, and they tell me that success creates blind spots.

419
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:10,480
And the PGA Tour had a success beyond imagine, not

420
00:21:10,559 --> 00:21:12,640
because they did anything different. They didn't come up with

421
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,960
a new way to show golf. They did Tiger. And

422
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:17,680
this went on for a long time, and the TV's

423
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:21,079
all rode it. Well, that Tiger effects gone, I mean,

424
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:26,240
Tigers aged, and for some reason someone thought that that

425
00:21:26,599 --> 00:21:29,960
growth of the game that Tiger gave was just there

426
00:21:30,039 --> 00:21:33,400
because of golf. And so when this live thing came

427
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,440
in and started a whole new process and raised the numbers,

428
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:41,039
the PGA Tour somehow thought, well, well, that they're doing

429
00:21:41,079 --> 00:21:43,599
the right thing, we've got to pay more money. They

430
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,559
really weren't looking at the bottom line. They weren't looking

431
00:21:45,599 --> 00:21:48,440
at their product. They weren't looking at is the product

432
00:21:48,559 --> 00:21:51,759
better than it was? They just look at we got

433
00:21:51,799 --> 00:21:57,920
to play guys more money and they matched, and I

434
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,519
mean they can't afford it. It's unsustainable. I mean, I

435
00:22:00,559 --> 00:22:04,079
think Scottie Scheffler made sixty two million dollars playing got

436
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:09,279
this year. That's wonder. Got a great kid, But it's

437
00:22:09,319 --> 00:22:12,160
not sustainable to the marketplace. And the viewership is down.

438
00:22:12,759 --> 00:22:14,799
Is it down because Tiger's not playing? Yeah?

439
00:22:15,079 --> 00:22:15,160
Speaker 1: Some?

440
00:22:15,799 --> 00:22:17,960
Speaker 2: Is it down because some of the top players went

441
00:22:18,039 --> 00:22:19,279
to live some?

442
00:22:20,079 --> 00:22:20,160
Speaker 1: Uh?

443
00:22:20,319 --> 00:22:23,319
Speaker 2: Is it because there's new streaming lines, or the viewership

444
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:27,359
has changed how people watch golf. There's a lot of factors,

445
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:31,759
but is it it's not sustainable as it is, and

446
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,440
and they're making moves to this day and not one

447
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,759
of those moves has been around producing a better product

448
00:22:38,759 --> 00:22:41,680
for the viewer. There's a group called the Savannah Bananas.

449
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:42,680
I don't know if you know who they are. It's

450
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:43,400
a baseball team.

451
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,839
Speaker 1: Love I've been following them for four years and I

452
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:46,559
love them.

453
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,640
Speaker 2: And that's kind of what I'm saying. Pro Baseball did

454
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,039
not attack them and say you're selling out stadiums for

455
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,160
more money than we can sell professional team that was

456
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,759
a different element is a different game. Live is a

457
00:22:58,799 --> 00:23:02,240
different game. There's a shot going to start, there's music playing,

458
00:23:02,319 --> 00:23:06,279
it's a little more relaxed. It's a really fun, incredible

459
00:23:06,279 --> 00:23:08,240
fun event, and they want fourteen of them a year.

460
00:23:08,599 --> 00:23:11,720
The PGA Tour reacted like this was just an attack

461
00:23:11,799 --> 00:23:16,200
on them, when they probably should have figured a way

462
00:23:16,759 --> 00:23:20,920
to like partner, which is what they're now. They're doing right,

463
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,799
and I think you're probably the next I don't think

464
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,319
in the short future you're going to see an announcement

465
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,559
that there's going to be some type of agreement partnership.

466
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,400
A year and a half ago there was a framework

467
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:36,599
agreement announced, and I think they're finally getting close. This

468
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:41,519
is what I'm hearing. I don't have direct knowledge, but yeah,

469
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:46,359
the game, the market that you pay these players to

470
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,480
let someone else just dictate all of a sudden how

471
00:23:48,519 --> 00:23:51,119
much they're going to pay them without looking at your

472
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,160
bottom line, looking at your product, at looking at your

473
00:23:54,680 --> 00:24:00,200
true revenues, just to protect a player. I mean, obviously

474
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,559
it was a mistake and if it happened, they wouldn't

475
00:24:02,559 --> 00:24:04,920
have had to take the recent one point five billion injection,

476
00:24:05,319 --> 00:24:09,720
and they wouldn't be going after another two billion from Pith.

477
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:16,720
My concern just throwing money at an issue doesn't solve it.

478
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,799
And what they've done is they've constricted the play They've

479
00:24:20,839 --> 00:24:22,440
just announced they're going to go from one hundred and

480
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:27,200
twenty five exempt players to one hundred exempt players. Well,

481
00:24:27,559 --> 00:24:30,640
every sport in the world is expanding. If one's adding

482
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,640
teams college football went from poor playoff teams to twelve,

483
00:24:34,279 --> 00:24:40,079
there's And now the tour is constricting. And the membership

484
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,599
of the tour is who the people that run the

485
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:46,400
tour are running it for. And they're essentially laying golfers off.

486
00:24:46,759 --> 00:24:50,799
They're taking away opportunities, and there's some unintended consequences to that.

487
00:24:51,039 --> 00:24:54,000
As I said, the tour does not draft players. They

488
00:24:54,039 --> 00:24:57,000
show up. And if I was running a product, I'd

489
00:24:57,079 --> 00:24:59,119
want as many golfers I could get out there on

490
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:03,079
that course, hoping that the next superstar was going to

491
00:25:03,079 --> 00:25:05,880
show up and give my ratings a boost and might

492
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,160
give my product make my product better. And I think

493
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,400
they're aheaded. I mean, I hate to be that way.

494
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,240
And look, I'm friends with those guys. They're going exactly

495
00:25:14,319 --> 00:25:18,240
the opposite way they should be expanding opportunities. Now, maybe

496
00:25:18,279 --> 00:25:20,720
the money won't be as much, so maybe Scotty only

497
00:25:20,759 --> 00:25:23,079
makes forty million for a year, but let's face it.

498
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,920
I mean there's families having a hard time buying groceries

499
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,319
with the rank inflation. You're going to turn fans off

500
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:31,559
if you've got these kids out there playing golf and

501
00:25:31,559 --> 00:25:34,359
they're just wanting more money. I mean, and you know

502
00:25:34,559 --> 00:25:36,279
money's not going to make you happy. I guess you

503
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,880
got to get it to find out. But I think

504
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,039
that it's unsustainable the model they have now. And even

505
00:25:42,079 --> 00:25:44,640
if they get more investment, if they don't look at

506
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,839
their product as a whole. It's been the same product

507
00:25:47,839 --> 00:25:50,519
for a long long time. If they don't look at

508
00:25:50,759 --> 00:25:53,000
the announcers, if they don't look at the entire thing.

509
00:25:53,599 --> 00:25:55,519
And that's what I love about the Savannah bananas. If

510
00:25:55,519 --> 00:25:57,759
you ask that guy, they built their product for what

511
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,680
the fan wanted. They wanted to give them. You know,

512
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,079
Steve Jobs when Time said, I didn't build products that

513
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:09,640
we were capable building. I built products that the public wanted.

514
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,759
Speaker 1: And I think but he also he also said that

515
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:15,640
they don't know what they want. So I'm not going

516
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:17,079
to do focus groups.

517
00:26:16,839 --> 00:26:19,519
Speaker 2: There you go, well, I'll tell them yeah, And I

518
00:26:19,599 --> 00:26:22,200
just think that's the mistakes. And this sounds like I'm

519
00:26:23,519 --> 00:26:25,759
I'm not being against them. I mean, the PGA Tour

520
00:26:25,799 --> 00:26:28,079
has been a wonderful. They've given away billions of dollars

521
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,839
and charitable I mean, and that's another thing. You know,

522
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,559
forever it was about giving back. I mean, they bragged

523
00:26:34,599 --> 00:26:36,799
about it. I mean, billions of dollars they give the charity.

524
00:26:37,559 --> 00:26:40,599
This happens and they say, you know, never mind, we're

525
00:26:40,599 --> 00:26:43,480
going to go for profit. We're a for profit company now,

526
00:26:43,559 --> 00:26:45,799
and you're going to pay us for our players, and

527
00:26:45,839 --> 00:26:49,039
you're going to do these things. And they couldn't. They

528
00:26:49,079 --> 00:26:53,279
couldn't be doing the opposite of what I think they

529
00:26:53,319 --> 00:26:56,359
need to do. Again, they're running it. Maybe they're smarter me,

530
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,160
But I'm out there with the fan. I'm walking in

531
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,160
the ropes. I hear what people say. People tell me

532
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,759
they will not watch golf anymore, whether it's live or

533
00:27:04,799 --> 00:27:08,160
PGA Tour because of the greed and what they perceive

534
00:27:08,279 --> 00:27:10,599
these players. I got to tell you, my players do

535
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,240
not I've never had one say I'm not playing in

536
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,720
that tournament because the purse is not known. These guys

537
00:27:15,759 --> 00:27:18,759
play golf for a living, and that they don't look

538
00:27:18,799 --> 00:27:21,680
at it like that. They play golf courses, they play tournaments,

539
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,640
that they may be better at playing that course they've

540
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,440
had good success at. I've never had one to this

541
00:27:27,519 --> 00:27:29,599
day ask me what's the purse of that event before

542
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:30,400
I commit to it.

543
00:27:30,519 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 1: Ever, many times I have asked guests who will rag

544
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,720
about what's going on in the tour, what's going on

545
00:27:44,759 --> 00:27:48,519
in sports, what's going on anywhere or with instruction. But

546
00:27:48,599 --> 00:27:50,559
I've never been able to talk to somebody who's in

547
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,400
the trenches in the way that you are in the

548
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:57,359
business of golf, which's very different than the sport of golf.

549
00:27:57,519 --> 00:28:01,920
Perfect And I've said to them, Okay, I just got news.

550
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:03,920
You've been made commissioner of the PGA.

551
00:28:04,599 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

552
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 1: So now I'm going to put it out to somebody

553
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:11,240
who's in the business of golf. Mac Okay, you've just

554
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,839
been made the commissioner of the PGA. What's the first

555
00:28:13,839 --> 00:28:14,519
thing you're gonna do.

556
00:28:15,759 --> 00:28:18,599
Speaker 2: Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna do some research and find

557
00:28:18,599 --> 00:28:21,799
out what really our market, our value is. I'm going

558
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,480
to find out what our product is worth. I can't play,

559
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:26,799
I can't keep this going if I'm going to pay

560
00:28:26,799 --> 00:28:29,319
the players more than we can operate, and I'm sorry

561
00:28:29,319 --> 00:28:31,359
if you need to go somewhere else and make more money.

562
00:28:31,599 --> 00:28:34,160
But our product, one of the product that we have,

563
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,440
is what we've been doing forever. And if you decide

564
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,000
you need to go somewhere else and play for more

565
00:28:40,039 --> 00:28:43,640
money as other baseball teams, as Soto from Is said,

566
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,359
every teams available, then you've got to go do it.

567
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,880
But our product is this. We're not we're five of

568
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,960
one c six. We're a charitable organization. Our job is

569
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,440
to provide opportunities for our members. So yeah, we might

570
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:58,119
be playing for a little bit money, but we're going

571
00:28:58,160 --> 00:28:59,920
to be here for a long time doing it. I

572
00:29:00,079 --> 00:29:04,079
would create the corn Ferry Tour, which is the developmental tour,

573
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:05,960
And this is one of the problems I have with

574
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,720
the tour. People don't realize that the average age of

575
00:29:08,759 --> 00:29:11,640
the PJA Tour player is younger than the average age

576
00:29:11,839 --> 00:29:16,359
of the developmental Tour. Wow, that's the problem. Well, he's

577
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,640
got a lot of guys former champions in their forties

578
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:21,279
that are playing to prepare for the senior Tour. But

579
00:29:21,359 --> 00:29:26,359
your pipeline of talent comes from that developmental tour. First

580
00:29:26,359 --> 00:29:29,000
thing I would do, I'd do away with all sponsor exemptions,

581
00:29:29,599 --> 00:29:33,119
all medical exemptions. I would have a qualifier of twenty

582
00:29:33,119 --> 00:29:36,000
to twenty four people a week for the corn Ferry Tour,

583
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,559
so that somewhere this next superstar might find his way

584
00:29:39,599 --> 00:29:42,480
into the ecosystem and play his way on the tour,

585
00:29:42,519 --> 00:29:43,960
and then I can go sell them to the next

586
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,279
TV deal. I would create more opportunities for the players.

587
00:29:47,319 --> 00:29:50,799
There's more demand for professional golf now than there's ever been.

588
00:29:51,319 --> 00:29:53,079
The tour just went from one hundred and twenty five

589
00:29:53,079 --> 00:29:56,279
exem players to one hundred. They laid off twenty five players.

590
00:29:56,839 --> 00:29:59,559
I would go to one hundred and thirty five. These

591
00:29:59,559 --> 00:30:02,559
guys time to develop. It takes three to four years

592
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:04,960
to develop into a player on tour when you get

593
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:09,480
out of college. It's not overnight. The average career length

594
00:30:09,559 --> 00:30:11,960
of a PGA Tour player is two point seven years.

595
00:30:12,839 --> 00:30:15,000
When they go from one hundred and twenty five to

596
00:30:15,039 --> 00:30:17,799
one hundred, they may have just reduced that to two years. Well,

597
00:30:17,799 --> 00:30:20,440
two years may not be enough to find your next

598
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,240
talent line. I mean, I'll give you Zach Johnson, who

599
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,759
lives on this island He's won two majors, the British Opening,

600
00:30:26,839 --> 00:30:29,759
the Masters. He played for four or five years on

601
00:30:29,799 --> 00:30:31,920
a thing called the Hooters Tour. No one's ever heard

602
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,119
of it, but that's where he got That's where he

603
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,839
learned how to compete. It takes a long time to

604
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,920
compete at that level. I mean, there's so many new

605
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,240
things you've got to learn. I mean college kids coming

606
00:30:42,279 --> 00:30:46,839
out of college now they fly private to tournaments. They

607
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,920
all brag about their practice facilities. Used to see these things.

608
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,720
They're taj Mahal practice facilities. Everything is laid out for them.

609
00:30:54,039 --> 00:30:57,119
They got teammates, they got peers. It's just a wonderful environment.

610
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,880
They turn pro, they're in a hotel room, not an

611
00:31:00,079 --> 00:31:03,759
ice one, driving a tahoe, playing in some tournament that

612
00:31:06,759 --> 00:31:10,799
there's a g pro event. They pay one thousand dollars

613
00:31:10,839 --> 00:31:13,160
to play in it and to earn fifteen thousand if

614
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:17,480
they win. But they need that experience. So if I'm

615
00:31:17,519 --> 00:31:21,200
the tour, I build three levels of tour. I build

616
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,079
double a ball, triple a ball in the tour underneath

617
00:31:25,079 --> 00:31:28,440
the corn ferry, I would have almost a college, a

618
00:31:28,519 --> 00:31:31,200
place for college kids to come and start playing professional

619
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,359
golf and then they could work to the corn ferry,

620
00:31:33,359 --> 00:31:35,319
and then the corn ferry to the tour. I'm not

621
00:31:35,359 --> 00:31:37,559
saying that people don't want to see the best players

622
00:31:38,319 --> 00:31:41,440
play every week against each other, but let's face it,

623
00:31:41,519 --> 00:31:46,279
the four majors are what build legacies. That's what builds legacies.

624
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,359
The other places is where they get They cut their chops,

625
00:31:49,599 --> 00:31:51,599
they learn how to play under pressure, and they earn

626
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,839
a living. I think the PGA Tour started thinking because

627
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,880
a Tiger that well, we kind of control golf. We

628
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:01,160
should have the best product, and they should have a

629
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:06,000
good product. But they just would. I would probably before

630
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,240
I would lay off twenty five Tour players, I'd probably

631
00:32:08,279 --> 00:32:10,279
lay off a lot of people at PGA Tour headcreters.

632
00:32:13,039 --> 00:32:15,640
So yeah, and I'm sure that that gets out. People

633
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:17,160
are going to say I'm wrong, but and I could

634
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,880
be wrong. I'm not. My opinion of from where I am,

635
00:32:20,319 --> 00:32:22,400
knowing what I've seen in thirty four years, the tour

636
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,640
has never gone out and recruited a player. They show

637
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,000
up and then if they show up, well, they sell them,

638
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,480
and they sell them until they're not sellable. And I

639
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,559
had a client Boo weekly, Boo weekly, and I think

640
00:32:33,559 --> 00:32:35,920
two thousand and eight Ryder Cup. People never heard of

641
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,240
Boo and after that, Boo was probably one of their

642
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,240
biggest stars for like three or four years. I mean,

643
00:32:40,799 --> 00:32:45,359
commercials everywhere, right, but it doesn't last. This is a

644
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,279
tough game. Very few guys have careers like Davis Love

645
00:32:49,319 --> 00:32:52,119
or Lucas Glove or Phil Mickelson. It's just there's a

646
00:32:52,119 --> 00:32:54,000
lot of names you start throwing out and you go like,

647
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,880
what happened to that guy? Well, God, it's a it's

648
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,480
a hard sport. You got injuries. I mean, you got

649
00:33:00,119 --> 00:33:01,759
you know, you've got a lot of things that goes wrong,

650
00:33:01,799 --> 00:33:05,119
and I mean there's a million of them. If you

651
00:33:05,119 --> 00:33:07,000
ever say what happened to those guys? There's a guy

652
00:33:07,079 --> 00:33:10,559
named Hunter Mayheon. Remember this kid was I mean, got

653
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,400
lee and where is he? Well, I mean that's what

654
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,160
these careers are. They're not long careers. So if I

655
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,839
have a product that I know the career average is short,

656
00:33:21,559 --> 00:33:24,400
and I know that I'm selling the talent that is

657
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:28,480
playing to the sponsors and to the TV deal, I'm

658
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,279
trying to get as wide a net cast as possible

659
00:33:31,319 --> 00:33:34,079
for the best possible talent. I wouldn't say, well, we're

660
00:33:34,119 --> 00:33:37,960
just going to go with this particular talent. And and

661
00:33:38,039 --> 00:33:40,920
that's what I do, is PO PGA Tour Commissioner. I

662
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:44,359
would create more opportunities for my members, not less.

663
00:33:46,359 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: Well, the thing that's so fascinating about golf versus other

664
00:33:48,759 --> 00:33:54,519
sports is you know, you don't have you rarely in

665
00:33:54,640 --> 00:34:01,200
golf have a dominant player, right. It's parody among all sports.

666
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:05,000
It is parody, is what golf is all about. Because

667
00:34:05,039 --> 00:34:07,400
it's so hard to win more than once. That's why

668
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,719
the Tiger effect was so huge for such a long time,

669
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,039
to the point where golf courses were being built like

670
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,400
crazy during the Tiger effect. Yeah, and then when he started,

671
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,880
when he started injuring himself and getting bad press, all

672
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,480
of a sudden, there's no courses being built anymore exact,

673
00:34:23,599 --> 00:34:27,400
and courses are closing all over the place. And then

674
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:32,039
COVID happens. OVID and top golf happens, and people are

675
00:34:32,079 --> 00:34:34,519
flocking out to go do these things. Now are more

676
00:34:34,559 --> 00:34:38,639
people playing golf because of top golfer. They just goofing

677
00:34:38,679 --> 00:34:40,880
around with golf because of top golf.

678
00:34:41,559 --> 00:34:44,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's a phenomenon. You know, we've said the

679
00:34:44,199 --> 00:34:46,199
two biggest things that happened to golf in the last

680
00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:51,079
thirty years where Tiger was in COVID. COVID took participation

681
00:34:51,159 --> 00:34:54,280
of golf to a level that you know, it was

682
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,239
all of a sudden, okay, not to be working from

683
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,960
home and getting around to golf in every day and stay,

684
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,119
I mean this island I live on is I mean

685
00:35:02,559 --> 00:35:04,880
the influx of people here and the people you see

686
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,760
every day playing golf. I think participation in the game

687
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,119
is at all time high. Women's golf, I mean I

688
00:35:12,199 --> 00:35:15,599
watch women's golf as much. I mean, honestly for people

689
00:35:15,639 --> 00:35:18,639
like us, more relatable, how far they hit it, how

690
00:35:18,639 --> 00:35:22,800
they play, stuff like that. But so's the that's the

691
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,119
tough problem is maybe people aren't watching golf as much

692
00:35:26,199 --> 00:35:29,719
because they're out playing it. One's the no one skips

693
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:34,079
watching the Braves play to go play baseball. So I

694
00:35:34,079 --> 00:35:36,599
would want to know why viewership is down? Is it

695
00:35:36,639 --> 00:35:40,320
the product? Is it the viewership has changed? But that's

696
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,360
what I would be looking at as the PGA Tours.

697
00:35:42,559 --> 00:35:45,360
Our product needs to be as good as it can be.

698
00:35:46,119 --> 00:35:49,159
Speaker 1: And golf on television on television is now better than

699
00:35:49,159 --> 00:35:52,760
it's ever been because of things like top Tracer, where

700
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:54,559
you can follow the ball instead of just seeing this

701
00:35:54,599 --> 00:35:56,599
little white dot flying through the air and not knowing

702
00:35:56,639 --> 00:35:57,280
what it's doing.

703
00:35:57,519 --> 00:35:58,679
Speaker 2: Right, Yep, things like that.

704
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 1: So golf television is great. It's I would much rather

705
00:36:03,079 --> 00:36:06,840
watch a tournament on TV than be there because it's

706
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,039
so fast paced, there's so much going on and you

707
00:36:10,079 --> 00:36:11,840
can really follow what's going on. Oh.

708
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,280
Speaker 2: Absolutely. We were talking about the you know, the Ryder

709
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:15,880
Cup the other day and the Ryder Cup's going to

710
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,920
be in New York, and there was some throwback that

711
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,000
I think one day ticket for the Ryder Cup is

712
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:24,760
seven hundred and fifty dollars and people that's outrageous. And

713
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,000
I said, well, it's fourteen hundred dollars to go stand

714
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,800
at the Yankee Stadium to watch the World Series. This

715
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,000
is the biggest event in golf. I mean bat and

716
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,599
the Masters, the two biggest avents in golf. Sure, And

717
00:36:36,599 --> 00:36:38,239
there was some throwback and I said, well, if you've

718
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:42,079
ever been to a Ryder Cup and you really want

719
00:36:42,119 --> 00:36:45,039
to watch it, watch it on TV because you're gonna

720
00:36:45,039 --> 00:36:47,400
see every shot. You go to a Ryder Cup, Man,

721
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,159
the the excitement of being there. I tell everybody you've

722
00:36:50,159 --> 00:36:51,840
got to go once. I mean, you got to feel

723
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,679
I've got the opportunity with Davis being captain twice and

724
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,840
being inside the ropes, and you can't measure the energy

725
00:36:59,159 --> 00:37:01,559
you're seeing guys that are millionaires, that are so good

726
00:37:01,559 --> 00:37:07,480
at golf, nervous shaking like you see nervous. Not many things,

727
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,119
I think, you know, the Majors and the Ryder Cup

728
00:37:10,119 --> 00:37:13,960
are the only things that can evoke nervousness in these

729
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,840
powerhouses that we watch these guys. I mean, it's serious, right,

730
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:22,800
so in the sense that the viewership and the game

731
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,920
growing and all the opportunities. The only thing, like to say,

732
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:31,280
the TV product, there's too many commercials, I mean, show

733
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:33,519
some golf. The other thing I have a complaint with

734
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,239
is I want to see real golf because you know,

735
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,639
you see the three guys winning that week and they

736
00:37:38,679 --> 00:37:42,360
are on fire. Right right, there's a guy shooting seventy four.

737
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:44,599
I want to see those shots too. Show me. God,

738
00:37:45,199 --> 00:37:47,239
I don't need to see Scottie Scheffer type in a

739
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:50,280
three foot for par unless he misses it or something.

740
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,159
But he ain't going to. I want to go see

741
00:37:52,159 --> 00:37:53,920
the guy just shanked one over in the woods.

742
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,679
Speaker 1: I mean, but that's like watching our game. Do we

743
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:57,800
probably want to see what we.

744
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 2: Do outreach steel better. I mean, these guys the best

745
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:02,679
in the world, and they the ball, They shank balls,

746
00:38:02,679 --> 00:38:05,559
they missed two photos, they make mistakes. And I always

747
00:38:05,559 --> 00:38:08,360
tell people how hard this game is. And I'm going

748
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:10,880
to quote a staff but from one hundred and twenty

749
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:16,280
five yards, and I'm going to the average distance put

750
00:38:16,639 --> 00:38:19,039
a tour player has for the year. I mean every player,

751
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,079
for every one hundred and twenty five yard shot. And

752
00:38:21,119 --> 00:38:24,440
I have people go nine feet seven feet, it's twenty

753
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,400
four feet. So I played with guys and we're one

754
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:29,400
hundred and twenty five yards and they hit it thirty

755
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,079
feet and they lose their mind, and I'm like, dude,

756
00:38:32,159 --> 00:38:35,039
that's incredible. You just did. What do you well?

757
00:38:35,039 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 1: On TV?

758
00:38:35,559 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 2: This guy hit it three feet in a row. I said,

759
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,599
that's the guy winning. He's unconscious. He doesn't know it.

760
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:42,320
I said, in two weeks, go watch him. He's not

761
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,559
gonna do that. But I would like to see that

762
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:46,840
kind of And again this is going to sound bad,

763
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:50,000
but there's there's a guy named John McGinnis, and nobody's

764
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:51,320
ever heard of this guy, and he's probably one of

765
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,280
the smartest guys in the game. But he played the tour,

766
00:38:53,519 --> 00:38:55,960
really good player. You know, I would have him in

767
00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:00,239
the eighteenth Tower. This is the funniest guy. He was

768
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,719
the game, He's played the game. But yet they take

769
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,480
guys because of their record. They're playing record. He's won

770
00:39:05,519 --> 00:39:08,280
three majors. Let's let him talk about it. Well, you

771
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,599
don't no offense, but just being great that GoF does

772
00:39:11,679 --> 00:39:14,760
not make you fun to listen to. And I've always

773
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:18,760
seen too. Yeah, I mean you see the thing with

774
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,679
the Eli Manning and those guys, and watch that's fun right,

775
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,639
it's just playing. But that's what I keep saying, is

776
00:39:25,679 --> 00:39:28,039
that they got into this paradigm of like, okay, well

777
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,360
our announcer needs to be a major winner or he's

778
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,159
got to be this. They don't look and say, we've

779
00:39:32,159 --> 00:39:35,320
got a guy that played the tour that you put

780
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,400
him in that booth. You will just cackle, you know

781
00:39:37,519 --> 00:39:40,280
this laughter. And he's not being mean. It's like Gary

782
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:48,280
McCourt or Gary david Ardy. I could see what I

783
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:50,320
can see, what shot was hit. You don't need to

784
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,920
tell me what happened, tell me something funny about it,

785
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,039
or tell me you know. And that's why I I

786
00:39:56,119 --> 00:39:57,920
want to European Tour in the morning. I love to

787
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,480
watch because those announcers that was a dreadful shot, that

788
00:40:01,559 --> 00:40:04,440
was horrible, you know, because it was and these other

789
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,519
guys they'll say, well it slipped, obviously you had you know.

790
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:12,760
But again there's the common commentary needs to improve. And

791
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:16,119
I'm getting this not because of me. I just like you.

792
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:18,280
I'm being in the business. You wouldn't believe how many

793
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,519
people want to talk golf to me, and they will

794
00:40:20,519 --> 00:40:22,639
tell me, Man, there's got to be less commercials. Man,

795
00:40:22,639 --> 00:40:24,280
they got to show more golf. They got to quit.

796
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:26,960
So all this I've done is not just me coming

797
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,239
up with an idea. These are the golfer general public

798
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,039
that I'm around all the time, sitting around at a

799
00:40:33,079 --> 00:40:39,559
bar listening, and I think the PGA Tour should listen more.

800
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:50,760
Speaker 1: You talked about how COVID was so good. There were

801
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:56,239
two industries that really succeeded and thrived during COVID, and

802
00:40:56,280 --> 00:41:00,280
that was golf and podcasting. I was on an island

803
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,920
pretty much by myself for many years before COVID, and

804
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:05,679
then when COVID came out, all of a sudden, there

805
00:41:05,679 --> 00:41:09,599
are so many golf podcasts out there, and it's true

806
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:15,400
It's amazing what's going on and what people are saying

807
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,400
about it and the interest in it, and you're right

808
00:41:18,599 --> 00:41:23,000
in so many different ways. I'm curious to know your

809
00:41:23,119 --> 00:41:32,960
thought on why there is such a negative attitude towards Live.

810
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:38,719
Do you think it was because of financial or political?

811
00:41:39,679 --> 00:41:41,280
You know a lot of people are calling it sport

812
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,920
washing that they kind of muscled their way in and

813
00:41:45,039 --> 00:41:49,760
took some of the big names, which you know, I can't.

814
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:52,840
I really have a difficult time when people complain about

815
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:57,760
athletes getting paid a lot of money, because it's like, well,

816
00:41:58,199 --> 00:42:00,159
should the money just be in the hands of the

817
00:42:00,159 --> 00:42:02,239
owners of the team. I mean, you know, these guys

818
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,000
are the product, and sure they should get paid because

819
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:08,599
everybody's making money here. But with something like this, Live

820
00:42:08,679 --> 00:42:10,360
came in and said, we're going to throw all this

821
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:14,519
money at these guys who you know, listen, you're playing

822
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,199
to earn a living. Well here, we're going to guarantee

823
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:21,320
your living now. And I may be misinterpreting this, but

824
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:23,920
we're going to guarantee your your grandchildren are and I

825
00:42:24,039 --> 00:42:26,559
are going to have to work. And it's like, how

826
00:42:26,599 --> 00:42:28,960
do you walk away from that? Going yeah, I don't

827
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:30,800
want to do that because I just want to win

828
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:38,159
a major. So what was it that was done wrong?

829
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:40,440
What if you had to redo, if you had a

830
00:42:40,559 --> 00:42:44,840
mulligan on starting live again? How do you do it

831
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,239
so it doesn't upset so many people and you make

832
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:47,719
it work?

833
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,280
Speaker 2: The simplest question in the world. People don't realize that

834
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:53,360
for years. This has been around for a while. This

835
00:42:53,559 --> 00:42:57,920
concept has been around in the marketplace five six years.

836
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,199
And what people may not know is that this group

837
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,400
went to the PGA tour and tried to have a

838
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,719
meeting and say, listen, we went into the ecosystem, We've

839
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,159
got money, here's what we're wanting to do. How can

840
00:43:09,159 --> 00:43:11,679
we work together? And some people say that the tour

841
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:13,639
didn't take it. I said, the tour didn't take a meeting.

842
00:43:14,519 --> 00:43:16,519
They never took a meeting. So you want you want

843
00:43:16,559 --> 00:43:20,920
to ultimate do over take the meeting. I always tell people,

844
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:23,519
if you've ever read the book or to War, before

845
00:43:23,559 --> 00:43:25,960
you compete, before you attack your enemy, you should know

846
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,719
who they are. And this was serious stuff. So that

847
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,840
started it. That not taking the meeting was the original sin.

848
00:43:32,039 --> 00:43:35,119
That's where happened. Second thing is they didn't they didn't

849
00:43:35,119 --> 00:43:36,599
know it was true. They didn't know what it was real.

850
00:43:37,039 --> 00:43:38,960
They for some reason stuff they're head in the sand

851
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:40,559
and said, well, this is never going to happen. These

852
00:43:40,559 --> 00:43:41,599
players are not going to do that.

853
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:46,079
Speaker 3: The PGA said that, yeah, yeah, I think there's a

854
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:50,119
there's i think an on air comment that said somehow

855
00:43:50,159 --> 00:43:52,599
the players won't leave because they know what we'll do

856
00:43:52,679 --> 00:43:53,000
to them.

857
00:43:54,039 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 2: And and so that happened. And then this next thing

858
00:43:58,119 --> 00:44:02,079
was instead of once it happened, calling them up and say, hey, guys,

859
00:44:02,119 --> 00:44:04,519
this is real. Let's find a way. This is fourteen

860
00:44:04,519 --> 00:44:07,480
events a year now, this is not fifty events, and

861
00:44:07,519 --> 00:44:11,159
it's a new product. It's different, and I'll get to

862
00:44:11,199 --> 00:44:13,239
it in a second how this product could really work.

863
00:44:13,519 --> 00:44:17,519
But their reaction to the tour the playbook was well,

864
00:44:17,559 --> 00:44:19,519
we're going to run down the players at leave. We

865
00:44:19,559 --> 00:44:23,280
will publicly admonish them and tell them they're kicked out,

866
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,159
they're banished. And those are the guys that you were

867
00:44:26,199 --> 00:44:28,960
selling for your TV product. Remember we go back to that, like,

868
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:31,559
these are the guys that you didn't build this guy,

869
00:44:31,679 --> 00:44:35,639
these were your products, Price and d Chambeaux, Brooks, DJ Sergio,

870
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:40,320
these were personalities. And so that started, and then they

871
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:42,599
just said you know what, We'll go after the source

872
00:44:42,639 --> 00:44:46,320
of the money. This is Saudi Arabia. Okay, we'll go

873
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:49,599
after them because they do not eleven. Saudi Arabia was

874
00:44:49,639 --> 00:44:52,840
behind an eleven. Well, I don't think so. I think

875
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:54,320
we'd a bomb them if they were behind it. I

876
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,840
think there were Saudi Arabian citizens on it that were radical,

877
00:44:58,679 --> 00:45:03,679
but that was their The tour essentially mined their own regress.

878
00:45:06,559 --> 00:45:09,079
In other words, they were the ones that turned it

879
00:45:09,119 --> 00:45:11,119
into such a negative thing. They are the ones that

880
00:45:11,159 --> 00:45:13,760
said this is blood money, I remember this and this,

881
00:45:14,039 --> 00:45:16,559
and they put all the rhetoric out there. They hired

882
00:45:16,599 --> 00:45:19,760
protesters to come protests from nine to eleven. Jay went

883
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:23,599
on I think he went on some Jim Natz and said,

884
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:25,639
you know one thing is you will never have to

885
00:45:25,679 --> 00:45:30,320
be embarrassed to play for us. So they did it

886
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:32,199
to themselves. They're the ones that made it such a

887
00:45:32,199 --> 00:45:36,159
dirty thing because Saudi Arabia is not just a ally

888
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,039
of America. They're married to us. I forget how much

889
00:45:39,119 --> 00:45:43,119
they just spent with Raytheon, how much they mean they

890
00:45:44,079 --> 00:45:49,519
their partners with America. I mean Aramco is the Arabian

891
00:45:49,559 --> 00:45:52,840
American old company. So the tour did it to themselves,

892
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:55,599
and so they're the ones that turned the public tide.

893
00:45:55,599 --> 00:45:57,159
I have people that come to I have one player

894
00:45:57,199 --> 00:45:58,920
in the old tree that plays on LIB. I didn't

895
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,000
sell them to him. He was never tour member. He

896
00:46:01,079 --> 00:46:04,320
earned his way. And I have people telling me enjoying

897
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:06,559
that blood. I've had pretty people here go you're enjoying

898
00:46:06,559 --> 00:46:08,199
that blood money, and I'm like, what in the world

899
00:46:08,199 --> 00:46:11,119
are you talking about. So they're the ones that created

900
00:46:11,119 --> 00:46:14,000
it all, and that's why it's so shocking. A year

901
00:46:14,039 --> 00:46:16,519
and a half ago, they make an announcement, well, we've

902
00:46:16,519 --> 00:46:18,679
got a framework agreement now to partner with them.

903
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,159
Speaker 1: Well what's those shocking systems.

904
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,800
Speaker 2: When they partner with them? The same people that you

905
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,280
banished from the tour for taking their money, now you're

906
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:30,960
going to take their money because you made a lot

907
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:34,400
of bad decisions. So yeah, the do over was take

908
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:39,320
the meeting. And it goes back to their success created

909
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:43,079
blind spots, and so let's go to the LIB model.

910
00:46:44,559 --> 00:46:46,199
I tell people all the time, the live model. If

911
00:46:46,199 --> 00:46:47,880
you've ever been to one, and I've been to several,

912
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,679
and they're really fine. They're exciting, the players are excited

913
00:46:50,679 --> 00:46:54,000
to be there, and it's a team concept. Team GoF works,

914
00:46:54,559 --> 00:46:56,280
but we're the team GoF. I think they made a

915
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:59,960
mistake is had the tour partner with them from the beginning.

916
00:47:00,039 --> 00:47:02,880
And let's say, let's do this. Let's have an Irish team,

917
00:47:03,199 --> 00:47:05,920
Let's have a South African team, Let's have a Mexican team,

918
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:08,639
a Spanish team, a South Korean team, a Canadian team.

919
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:10,880
We'll have a Texas team, We'll have a Sea Island team,

920
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:14,000
We'll have a California team, and fourteen times a year

921
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:16,800
we will get together. And this is kind of like

922
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:19,800
a Ryder Cup instead of in USA and Europe. Now

923
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:21,920
we're going to show up at a Dare matter and

924
00:47:22,039 --> 00:47:24,760
all these teams from around the cunt world are coming

925
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:27,800
to play the Irish team. How many T shirts and

926
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:31,280
hats of that Hirish jerseys which you sell? And no

927
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,880
one understands the licensing concept behind this. I think five

928
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,920
point seven billion dollars is spent every year in college

929
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:41,760
football licensed merchandise. Maybe it's four point seven, it's a lot.

930
00:47:43,119 --> 00:47:46,039
There's never been a licensing opportunity in golf until this.

931
00:47:46,519 --> 00:47:50,320
There is with the Ryder Cup, which happens every two years.

932
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:54,719
We'll think about having an event. Let's say you hold

933
00:47:54,719 --> 00:48:00,920
an event at Bethpage Black and it's the Americans Texas,

934
00:48:01,079 --> 00:48:05,760
Sea Island, Scottsdale versus Ireland. Here comes Rory McElroy and

935
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,719
Sean take the best players from those countries like we

936
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,159
do with the Ryder Cup, and do it fourteen times

937
00:48:11,159 --> 00:48:14,000
a year. How about that Australian team show up to

938
00:48:14,079 --> 00:48:18,760
play the Australian team in Australia Ireland and you want

939
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:22,239
to see the fan base because it would not make

940
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:25,039
the Ryder Cup irrelement because the Ryder Cup is always

941
00:48:25,079 --> 00:48:26,760
going to be a Ryder Cup, but it would be

942
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:29,239
a chance to each country to show up because it

943
00:48:29,360 --> 00:48:31,960
used to be the Ryder Cup was just against Europe

944
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:36,079
or against Great Britain. There wasn't enough competition back then,

945
00:48:36,159 --> 00:48:38,599
so they said we'll add more people. Well, now there's

946
00:48:38,639 --> 00:48:41,840
stuff competition for every country to have a team. And

947
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:43,719
then people go, well, these guys would have to play

948
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:46,239
too much golf, and I said, wait a minute. There

949
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:48,119
could be more than four players on each team. You

950
00:48:48,159 --> 00:48:52,039
could have eight players from Ireland on the team and

951
00:48:52,079 --> 00:48:54,159
they don't just like any other sports, they don't play

952
00:48:54,199 --> 00:48:57,880
every match. That would have grown the game. That would

953
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,760
have taken stuff to South Korea coming in the TV

954
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:03,559
product would have been off the charts. Who would not

955
00:49:03,599 --> 00:49:06,000
be wearing if you're from Ireland, would not be wearing

956
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:12,079
their merchandise. Now, the naming, the majestics and the whatever,

957
00:49:12,599 --> 00:49:14,159
I just don't think it's going to work. I mean,

958
00:49:14,199 --> 00:49:17,599
the braves work and the match work, but I think

959
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:20,880
we it needed to be a more national type situation.

960
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:24,920
Now the Australian team is Australian and if you go

961
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:27,280
to the event, they eat dinner together, they practice together,

962
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:29,960
They're having so much fun they all eat together. It's

963
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,760
a wonderful product, it really is. Does it replace the

964
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:37,119
PGA Tour? No, it's different. The Savannah bananas does not

965
00:49:37,159 --> 00:49:40,079
replace the Atlanta Braves. It's a different product. But guess

966
00:49:40,079 --> 00:49:43,480
what it does. Someone that goes and sees anything in

967
00:49:43,519 --> 00:49:46,800
goth enjoys it grows the game. And that's where that's

968
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:49,480
where all this went wrong, is what growing the game

969
00:49:50,519 --> 00:49:55,360
makes everyone's life better? Right? So the do over take

970
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:58,000
the meeting several years ago. Don't look at it like

971
00:49:58,079 --> 00:50:00,079
this is an attack on our business. Look at it

972
00:50:00,119 --> 00:50:02,760
is what can they offer us? You imagine if they

973
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:04,920
came in with the billions of dollars that they have

974
00:50:05,639 --> 00:50:08,079
put it into the hands of the PGA Tour and

975
00:50:08,159 --> 00:50:10,639
then through their contacts, went around the world and grew

976
00:50:10,639 --> 00:50:13,039
the game. Now I don't know if we can get

977
00:50:13,039 --> 00:50:16,679
the two passback in the tube. You know, I've had

978
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:19,039
players tell me, well, Bryson D. Schambau wants to come

979
00:50:19,039 --> 00:50:20,840
play on my event, He's going to have to pay

980
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:23,199
a penalty. And I'm like, wait a minute, if he

981
00:50:23,239 --> 00:50:26,599
plays in your event, the event's better, I said. And

982
00:50:26,679 --> 00:50:28,599
I told him, guy, I said, you probably got a

983
00:50:28,599 --> 00:50:30,679
better chance of having to pay Bryson D. Champeau out

984
00:50:30,679 --> 00:50:32,840
and the parent's fee to play in your tournament, then

985
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:34,360
you do. He don't have me to play a penalty

986
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:37,400
because you don't remember your product now, PGA Tour is

987
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:42,480
a for profit, for profit, so why would someone pay

988
00:50:42,639 --> 00:50:47,760
penalty to come help your product better. It's been mindless

989
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,679
as far as I'm concerned. And no, and maybe there

990
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:52,480
have been meeting a lot. I know Jay was over

991
00:50:52,519 --> 00:50:54,039
and I think he's been over in so Awid the

992
00:50:54,039 --> 00:50:56,119
ABA last week, and I hear things are moving along.

993
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:58,760
But how do you get the public to say, hey,

994
00:50:59,079 --> 00:51:00,960
I know we said this is blood money but we're

995
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:02,719
going to take it now because we're for profit and

996
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:04,039
I still want to make a lot of money.

997
00:51:04,559 --> 00:51:05,679
Speaker 1: Yeah.

998
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, someone's gonna have to step in. Someone is going

999
00:51:09,079 --> 00:51:11,719
to have to step in and save this game. I

1000
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:14,960
don't know how it works. If it's the Augusta National.

1001
00:51:15,199 --> 00:51:17,920
If I told somebody one time you think money matters,

1002
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:22,039
Augusta National could say, hey, there's no price, there's no purse.

1003
00:51:22,559 --> 00:51:26,199
All you're playing for is a green jacket. Everyone shows up.

1004
00:51:26,679 --> 00:51:30,239
You bet that's legacy. So and the other thing. Are

1005
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:33,119
any of my players worried about how much money they're making.

1006
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:35,400
I never hear it. These guys will all tell you

1007
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:39,800
I made more money. I could different dream of playing golf. Like,

1008
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:42,239
they're not in there going give me more money. I've

1009
00:51:42,559 --> 00:51:45,159
had a client. Look, they want to make more, but

1010
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:46,719
what are they going to do with it? I mean,

1011
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:50,480
fly a bigger jet. I mean, and they play what

1012
00:51:50,559 --> 00:51:54,360
twenty five weeks a year? I mean, I got cat.

1013
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:58,360
There's caddies making millions of dollars now and they're working

1014
00:51:58,440 --> 00:52:02,119
twenty five weeks a year. Uh, I missed my call

1015
00:52:02,199 --> 00:52:04,519
in I could maybe I could have caddied because I

1016
00:52:04,559 --> 00:52:09,119
do about the same job so yeah, this, I don't

1017
00:52:09,119 --> 00:52:11,400
know what happened. I don't know where it all went wrong,

1018
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:13,519
where nobody said, let's look at this in a more

1019
00:52:13,559 --> 00:52:16,039
macro way. Maybe this isn't an attack on this, Maybe

1020
00:52:16,079 --> 00:52:18,840
this is an opportunity to really grow the game. I

1021
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:21,519
just think again, I'll go back. Success created so many

1022
00:52:21,519 --> 00:52:25,480
blind spots within the PJ tour headquarters is they didn't

1023
00:52:25,519 --> 00:52:28,960
know how to react, and now did their reaction. No

1024
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:31,320
matter what they do now they're kind of trapped either way.

1025
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:34,079
They've mined their regress. They now that they take the

1026
00:52:34,119 --> 00:52:36,880
money from over there, they've got to answer the questions

1027
00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:39,960
why you and not them? How could you be so

1028
00:52:40,079 --> 00:52:42,599
mad at Brooks Keptka taking money from them, and now

1029
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:46,079
you're taking Where did you get? Where is your rights

1030
00:52:46,079 --> 00:52:48,360
different than them? So I don't know. And it's like

1031
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:50,079
I say, Kim, we get the two pace back in

1032
00:52:50,119 --> 00:52:52,400
the tube. Because there's a lot of people to this

1033
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:54,559
day that tell me if they do a deal with PIFF,

1034
00:52:54,599 --> 00:52:57,119
they'll never watch PJ. Tor Gain had that said to me,

1035
00:52:57,519 --> 00:53:00,760
and I'm like, you know, I don't think you know,

1036
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:03,000
America is an incredible country, but I don't think we're

1037
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,360
I don't think we're like sinless in life. I don't

1038
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:10,199
We've probably done some things as bad as every other country.

1039
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:13,480
I just think, you know, I always tell people Japan

1040
00:53:13,679 --> 00:53:19,880
bombed US in nineteen forty one, okay, and we have

1041
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:23,840
toyotas and we have Sony TVs and we time pass

1042
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:26,639
us and things change, and you know, I always tell people,

1043
00:53:26,639 --> 00:53:29,119
you know, And I'm not gonna get in religion, but

1044
00:53:29,519 --> 00:53:33,079
you know, forgiveness and had we turned our cheek in

1045
00:53:33,199 --> 00:53:34,840
nine to eleven and said, you know what, we're going

1046
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:37,159
to strengthen our borders, We're going to let this happen.

1047
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:41,719
But to just go create more terrorists against us again,

1048
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:43,280
I'm not going to get into all that, but this

1049
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:46,880
is what I'm saying is where did you get to

1050
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:51,239
the point that where another goth league would cause you

1051
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:55,079
to react to a point before you hurt yourself? Right?

1052
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:57,679
I mean, it would make it, don't I don't talk

1053
00:53:57,760 --> 00:53:59,480
to any business man that says this is the thing

1054
00:53:59,519 --> 00:54:01,400
to do. And you know the funny thing about all

1055
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:05,920
this and this is so here's the tour and now

1056
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:07,960
they're going to they got one point five billion dollars

1057
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:10,199
in investment, and now let's go say they do a

1058
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:13,800
deal with with Lift and they get all this money.

1059
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:20,559
Who says another tour doesn't show, Well, who's there's demand

1060
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:23,960
any business that there's a man in. So I look

1061
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:26,559
at it as like, what happens if another competitor shows

1062
00:54:26,599 --> 00:54:30,920
up with another tour? What do you do now? I mean,

1063
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:34,239
I don't know. So it's one of those things that,

1064
00:54:35,559 --> 00:54:37,199
again I'm not the smartest guy in the world. I'm

1065
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:39,400
going on based on my experience in the game and

1066
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:42,760
watching the game and watching players, is that it seemed

1067
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:45,360
to me the PGA Tour was more worried about keeping

1068
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:47,320
their jobs than growing the game.

1069
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:56,760
Speaker 1: I can't recap everything we've just done, but the concept

1070
00:54:56,800 --> 00:55:01,320
of team golf has not the way Live is doing it.

1071
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:03,559
I just I just never understood it. I don't know

1072
00:55:03,599 --> 00:55:06,360
what they're doing, but the but the idea of doing

1073
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:09,639
it regionally. Like you know, you said the Braves and

1074
00:55:09,639 --> 00:55:13,719
the Mets, that's fine, but they're not the Coca Cola Braves, right,

1075
00:55:14,079 --> 00:55:17,000
And they're not the New York Life Mets, they're the

1076
00:55:17,079 --> 00:55:22,280
New York They're regional. So a team for each country

1077
00:55:22,559 --> 00:55:27,159
makes so much more sense. And then in the United States, California, Texas,

1078
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:32,320
New York, Arizona. Yes, you have those teams, right, and

1079
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:36,880
then all of a sudden, as you were clearly explaining here,

1080
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:42,679
it's a merchandise bonanza. Oh and that's the whole point.

1081
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:47,199
I mean, why did college football, you know, West Coast teams,

1082
00:55:47,199 --> 00:55:49,960
the Pac twelve broke up because they were looking to

1083
00:55:50,079 --> 00:55:55,119
generate more revenue. Okay, I can accept that, right, you could,

1084
00:55:55,159 --> 00:55:57,199
and and most people can accept. Yeah, they want to

1085
00:55:57,199 --> 00:55:59,960
make more money. But when someone throws money at it,

1086
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:04,960
they're against it. It really is mind blowing. But they

1087
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:05,599
did it wrong.

1088
00:56:06,559 --> 00:56:10,559
Speaker 2: We talked about in business schools for so long. They

1089
00:56:11,239 --> 00:56:14,559
and again I'm not trying to be Look, I'm just

1090
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:17,519
stating the truth. It's wrong. They did it the wrong way.

1091
00:56:17,559 --> 00:56:19,960
And if and if anybody can tell me it wants

1092
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:22,119
to call me and say, hey, let me show you

1093
00:56:22,159 --> 00:56:25,079
what we did, right, I'll tell you. But I've got

1094
00:56:25,159 --> 00:56:28,360
tour players that I represent that have less opportunities, that

1095
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:31,639
are in a living now on the PGA tour, which

1096
00:56:31,679 --> 00:56:35,679
there are members of, and so how can you tell

1097
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:40,440
me that you're not serving your membership by taking away

1098
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:42,920
opportunities and that it's going to make it a better product.

1099
00:56:43,119 --> 00:56:45,519
And then they tell you they're doing this because of

1100
00:56:45,559 --> 00:56:48,320
the pace of play. I go, wait a minute, you

1101
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:50,920
have rules against that. But you know what, I don't

1102
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,320
know how many people have ever been fined. But you

1103
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:55,920
find a guy here's coming down the stretch and he's

1104
00:56:56,599 --> 00:56:59,400
he's slower, and he's getting ready to win two million

1105
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:02,000
dollars if you wins, and you're gonna find him ten grand.

1106
00:57:02,039 --> 00:57:04,599
You think he cares, he and he goes get He's

1107
00:57:04,599 --> 00:57:06,039
gonna get that fine a week later.

1108
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:07,199
Speaker 1: Right.

1109
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:11,119
Speaker 2: So now the new product in GoF is going to

1110
00:57:11,199 --> 00:57:13,800
have to get faster, it's going to have to be

1111
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:16,960
more palatable to watch. You're going to see more golf

1112
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:22,719
and I don't know how they can get that. And again, look,

1113
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:24,960
I gotta tell you something. The PGA Tour when COVID hit,

1114
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:29,239
they did one of the best jobs in the history

1115
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:31,639
of anybody. They got those guys back out there playing.

1116
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:35,000
It was an amazing thing. I mean, j Monahan got

1117
00:57:35,079 --> 00:57:37,360
that COVID hit. I mean, we're all out of work.

1118
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:40,519
I mean we're sitting here like everybody. Now they got

1119
00:57:40,639 --> 00:57:43,679
they got God, we had testing. We were back playing

1120
00:57:43,679 --> 00:57:48,000
golf so fast, which was great for people playing golf.

1121
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:50,440
And you would think, man, they've got it. This is

1122
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:53,639
so incredible that they could pull that off. And probably

1123
00:57:53,719 --> 00:57:56,199
one of the best things that's ever happened in business

1124
00:57:56,239 --> 00:57:58,360
followed up, but probably the worst thing that's ever happened

1125
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:01,320
in business. And there's nothing you can do to deny it.

1126
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:06,000
And I don't you know. People ask me what should happen.

1127
00:58:06,039 --> 00:58:09,280
I said, well, they should just come out and say, hey, guys, everybody,

1128
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:11,280
we made mistakes. Let me sell you what we did wrong.

1129
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:13,440
We should have took the meeting, we shouldn't have been

1130
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:16,239
so vile, we shouldn't have attacked them, we shouldn't have

1131
00:58:16,239 --> 00:58:18,119
done these things, and we would like, we want you

1132
00:58:18,119 --> 00:58:19,599
to forget this. And what we're gonna do now is

1133
00:58:19,599 --> 00:58:21,960
we're gonna start up members of the PJ Tour. We're

1134
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:24,239
gonna do everything we can to create as many opportunities

1135
00:58:24,239 --> 00:58:26,719
for you to play as possible, so as much money

1136
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:29,920
as possible, but not more money than it's possible. And

1137
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:32,719
that's where if I go back to if I was

1138
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:34,400
running the tour, first thing I do is say, okay,

1139
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:36,679
let's show you where we messed up. Okay, we're going

1140
00:58:36,719 --> 00:58:39,960
to back up, try to get the public to understand

1141
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:44,960
what we did wrong. Do not be tear up Saudi

1142
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:49,159
Arabia because that's where the money came from. When you've

1143
00:58:49,159 --> 00:58:52,199
got how much money FedEx, which is the PJ Tour's

1144
00:58:52,199 --> 00:58:55,599
biggest sponsor, how much business they do in Saudi Arabia,

1145
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:58,119
I just I just every time I look around, like,

1146
00:58:58,159 --> 00:59:01,800
do you think this is not a global economy? And

1147
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:03,719
I know you don't want you know, we want to

1148
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:05,719
judge where money comes from and all this stuff, But

1149
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:07,840
that was nothing to do about where it was really

1150
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:10,239
coming from. That was just an attack point. They just

1151
00:59:10,280 --> 00:59:12,519
were pulling things out the bag. How can we make

1152
00:59:12,559 --> 00:59:15,360
them look worse? How can we destroy their product? We

1153
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:17,440
will not let them out. We're ranking points. We will

1154
00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:21,960
do this. I mean that that's not good business. It's

1155
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:24,679
not good business. Now, maybe it works in the steel industry,

1156
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:27,000
or maybe it works if it's the mob, but it

1157
00:59:27,039 --> 00:59:30,079
doesn't work in business. And now when you're when your

1158
00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:33,280
customer is is the US public or the world public,

1159
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:37,280
everything you did should have been looked at how does

1160
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:41,800
it affect them? Like and if and if it was

1161
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:44,320
such a bad product as they said it never works

1162
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:46,679
and team GoF doesn't work, and if it was such

1163
00:59:46,679 --> 00:59:48,840
a bad product. Then why did you compete with them?

1164
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:52,239
Let them go? And now we've got this new thing,

1165
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:54,280
you know, the Tomorrow's Golf League. I don't know if

1166
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:56,880
you know about what that is. You know, ye.

1167
00:59:58,559 --> 01:00:01,199
Speaker 1: Not. I haven't really dug into it.

1168
01:00:01,199 --> 01:00:04,920
Speaker 2: It's the Atlanta Drive Lucas Glover where Michelant. Lucas Glover

1169
01:00:05,039 --> 01:00:08,400
is on the Atlanta Drive owned by Arthur Blank, who

1170
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:11,440
owns the Atlanta Falcons. There you go, Atlanta Drive. You

1171
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:13,400
should see the swag. It's cool. They're going to play

1172
01:00:13,440 --> 01:00:16,320
indoor outdoor golf at a stadium on Monday and Tuesday

1173
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:19,360
nights in the winter. Tiger Woods is involved. Rory's in Bob,

1174
01:00:20,039 --> 01:00:22,320
I don't. I think it's an awesome concept. I think

1175
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:26,280
it's going to be fun. But if team golf doesn't work,

1176
01:00:26,360 --> 01:00:28,280
then why are we doing team golf? Like Lucas is

1177
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:30,440
on a team with Billy of Horshall and Justin Thomas,

1178
01:00:32,599 --> 01:00:36,880
So none of it makes sense to me. I think

1179
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:39,519
team golf is the most wonderful thing in the world.

1180
01:00:39,599 --> 01:00:41,119
And you know, they came out and said team golf

1181
01:00:41,159 --> 01:00:44,039
doesn't work, and it's only three rounds. You can't define

1182
01:00:44,039 --> 01:00:46,639
a champion in three rounds. I said, college golf is

1183
01:00:46,639 --> 01:00:49,719
a team sport. It's been playing three rounds for history.

1184
01:00:50,119 --> 01:00:51,800
Speaker 1: So interesting amateur golf, you know.

1185
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:56,239
Speaker 2: And so so where is it going to go? I

1186
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:58,360
really don't know. I think there is going to be

1187
01:00:58,360 --> 01:01:04,199
an agreement between the two. But is it still a

1188
01:01:04,199 --> 01:01:09,039
great product or have they just survived and their membership

1189
01:01:09,639 --> 01:01:13,639
who they work for? Taking opportunities from these guys, you know,

1190
01:01:13,679 --> 01:01:20,000
for thirty forty years on Wednesday for free players playing

1191
01:01:20,039 --> 01:01:22,719
pro ams four or five hours of their day every

1192
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:27,280
day right before they go compete, Jack Nicholas, Arnold Palmer, Tiger,

1193
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:30,639
Phil Davis. They've been planning pro ams, building the brand

1194
01:01:30,639 --> 01:01:34,320
of the PGA Tour for them, and it's to turn

1195
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:36,599
around and go like, well we messed up. We're for profit.

1196
01:01:37,119 --> 01:01:40,119
I mean, there have been individuals that have saved PGA

1197
01:01:40,239 --> 01:01:44,320
Tour events with their own money. I won't go into it,

1198
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:47,199
but they have so here they are. They put their

1199
01:01:47,199 --> 01:01:50,719
own money to save this tournament for this community. So

1200
01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:53,280
it gives so much back to the community and charitable dollars.

1201
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:56,320
I'm going to save it myself. And they've turned around

1202
01:01:56,320 --> 01:01:57,880
now and tell these people, hey, if you want tousa

1203
01:01:57,880 --> 01:01:58,960
have an event, you're going to have to pay us

1204
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:00,719
five hundred thousand. You don't have to pay us a

1205
01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:05,079
million plus two percent of your gate, so that we're

1206
01:02:05,119 --> 01:02:08,039
going to make money. And I'm like, I look at

1207
01:02:08,079 --> 01:02:11,280
it and go like they take long term sponsors and say, look,

1208
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:13,079
if you don't give us more money, you can't play.

1209
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:18,400
I mean long term sponsors. I mean there's something about people.

1210
01:02:18,519 --> 01:02:23,199
They've lost sponsors like Honda, Wells Fargo. So again, everything

1211
01:02:23,239 --> 01:02:26,519
they've done, if it's the right thing, then it's going

1212
01:02:26,599 --> 01:02:29,960
to be something that's ten years from now will go, well,

1213
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:32,039
look what they did, it was right. But I don't

1214
01:02:32,039 --> 01:02:34,480
see how taken your membership that have given so much

1215
01:02:34,519 --> 01:02:37,280
to build your brand and taking opportunity away from them

1216
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:37,920
is going to work.

1217
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:43,800
Speaker 1: I'm curious of the stable of players that you represent,

1218
01:02:44,719 --> 01:02:51,119
professional golfers, how many of them have either considered or

1219
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:52,400
have gone over to.

1220
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:57,159
Speaker 2: Live I actually had no players considered going.

1221
01:02:57,719 --> 01:03:00,599
Speaker 1: Even consider it. You didn't have any DISCUSSI with any

1222
01:03:00,639 --> 01:03:00,960
of them.

1223
01:03:01,119 --> 01:03:04,960
Speaker 2: Oh, I asked them all, No, Oh, tell me, like,

1224
01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:07,000
how where do you fit in?

1225
01:03:07,039 --> 01:03:09,400
Speaker 1: And that I'm sure that you're the person there go

1226
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:11,760
I need to think about this. They're offering me a

1227
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:15,920
lot of money and the boy I'm really thinking about it.

1228
01:03:16,079 --> 01:03:18,920
They would come to you for that conversation. I would

1229
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:23,239
think in their spouse, but you know, as their business partner,

1230
01:03:23,719 --> 01:03:27,639
because they're the CEO of their company, right and you're

1231
01:03:27,679 --> 01:03:35,440
the like CEO company. How do you present this or

1232
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:40,039
hold them back or where do you get involved in fast?

1233
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:44,880
Speaker 2: Obviously they they you know, they made request for players

1234
01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:49,360
I represented to talk to them, okay, and and I don't.

1235
01:03:49,679 --> 01:03:51,800
I didn't say, well, how much do you have? I said,

1236
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:54,159
I'm not negotiating until I know he wants to do it.

1237
01:03:54,679 --> 01:03:56,639
I don't do that. I'm not gonna. I don't want to,

1238
01:03:57,119 --> 01:04:01,039
so I would I went to the players, and you know,

1239
01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:04,559
my last player went, now, I'm good, I'm fine. Just

1240
01:04:05,119 --> 01:04:07,599
wasn't any reasoning. They liked the PGA tour, they didn't

1241
01:04:07,599 --> 01:04:11,760
care about the I play for enough money, I'm fine

1242
01:04:12,599 --> 01:04:16,039
now on the context. So when the LID was kicking off,

1243
01:04:16,159 --> 01:04:19,639
they were a little short of players. They and I

1244
01:04:19,639 --> 01:04:21,480
had a kid named Mandy Ogletree who had won the

1245
01:04:21,519 --> 01:04:25,360
US Amateur in twenty nineteen. He caught the COVID year Masters,

1246
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:27,440
so he didn't get to play in the April Masters,

1247
01:04:27,719 --> 01:04:30,199
but guess who he got to play with Tiger Woods.

1248
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:34,039
So he waited as an amateur till November so he

1249
01:04:34,039 --> 01:04:37,480
could play with Tiger Woods and the Masters. He was

1250
01:04:37,559 --> 01:04:42,119
low amateur, which was wonderful. Turns pro. The next week

1251
01:04:42,199 --> 01:04:44,440
plays in Mexico, which is the last event of the

1252
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:46,960
year on tour. He got to play one event played well,

1253
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:51,320
we go through Christmas, he plays, He's starting to play

1254
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:56,079
shows up in LA with a sponsor. Rexemption tears his

1255
01:04:56,159 --> 01:04:59,320
labor as a five something. Tear in his labor. We

1256
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:04,400
fly him and me home to Andrews and Birmingham surgery

1257
01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:09,719
out six months. Okay, it's pretty tough on kid. So

1258
01:05:10,119 --> 01:05:12,440
as he's rehabbing and coming out, this kid's really good.

1259
01:05:13,199 --> 01:05:15,599
He I mean, these kids are not rich people, right,

1260
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:22,360
and he got an opportunity. I reached out and we

1261
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:24,599
got an opportunity to get him to the first live

1262
01:05:24,639 --> 01:05:31,360
event in London, one event in exchange for Asian Tour

1263
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:35,679
status because he didn't have anywhere to play. And he goes,

1264
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:38,760
I'm in last place was one hundred and twenty five thousand.

1265
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:41,599
That will go a long way to helping him get

1266
01:05:41,639 --> 01:05:46,000
back on his career. He plays he's rehabbing, didn't play great,

1267
01:05:46,039 --> 01:05:48,559
finished close to laughs. People, ah blah blah blah. The

1268
01:05:48,639 --> 01:05:51,119
tour banding, what is he I'm a member of the tour.

1269
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:53,719
Never let him go to Q school again, never let

1270
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:56,360
him do anything, blocked him from creating a living for

1271
01:05:56,440 --> 01:06:03,119
playing one event. Okay, I have a couple of retired

1272
01:06:03,159 --> 01:06:07,760
general friends, so I before Andy made a decision to

1273
01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:10,039
do this, I got in touch with one of them

1274
01:06:11,119 --> 01:06:13,760
because I knew they ties to Saudi Arabia and I

1275
01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:15,639
wanted to know I'm okay with this. This is going

1276
01:06:15,679 --> 01:06:17,960
to come back and get me and that one of

1277
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:22,280
them said said, we're married to Saudi Arabia. We're not

1278
01:06:22,360 --> 01:06:25,079
just allies. And I called Andy and said, hey, the

1279
01:06:25,159 --> 01:06:27,679
research I have the best I can tell you. You're

1280
01:06:27,719 --> 01:06:29,559
good to go do this. Well he was going anyhow,

1281
01:06:29,599 --> 01:06:34,079
he said I don't care. And then people, this is

1282
01:06:34,119 --> 01:06:37,840
great Andy, because they the tour put him on the

1283
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:40,599
list of banned players like he was one of theirs.

1284
01:06:41,159 --> 01:06:47,519
He lost deals. Now I'm going to share something. When

1285
01:06:47,559 --> 01:06:51,280
liv found out about that, they gave Andy money to

1286
01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:53,239
put live on his shirt so he'd have more money

1287
01:06:53,280 --> 01:06:55,320
to go play golf, and he went to Asia. He

1288
01:06:55,360 --> 01:06:58,599
won three times. He won the Order of Merit, which

1289
01:06:58,679 --> 01:07:01,360
got him a spot on Live. He earned his way

1290
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:04,280
on and we signed a team deal and he plays

1291
01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:06,880
for Phil meckleson team the High Flyers. And if you

1292
01:07:06,920 --> 01:07:08,760
call him and you want to ask how bad it is,

1293
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:11,079
you know what he gets to do every day. He

1294
01:07:11,079 --> 01:07:12,599
gets to hang out with Phil Mickerlson, one of the

1295
01:07:12,639 --> 01:07:15,079
best players ever played, helping him with his swing, helping

1296
01:07:15,119 --> 01:07:19,000
him with his game, and Kim Trengalli and Brendan Steel

1297
01:07:19,079 --> 01:07:21,039
his teammates. They hang out to go, they work with

1298
01:07:21,079 --> 01:07:24,000
each other, and he's getting better just because of having

1299
01:07:24,039 --> 01:07:26,599
these peers all of a sudden. So it's been the

1300
01:07:26,599 --> 01:07:30,000
most wonderful opportunities. If you want to grow the game,

1301
01:07:30,119 --> 01:07:33,960
you took a kid that I mean there was pretty

1302
01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:38,280
a low point in his life and through his play.

1303
01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:42,920
He played in the British Open last year, he played

1304
01:07:42,920 --> 01:07:47,119
in the PGA last year. So for Live, do you

1305
01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:49,440
say they didn't do anything good? Well they that kid

1306
01:07:49,519 --> 01:07:52,800
right there that changed his life. So but yeah, I

1307
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:55,360
didn't have a player get signed a check to go.

1308
01:07:55,599 --> 01:07:58,199
I don't know why. I mean, I'm you know, in

1309
01:07:58,280 --> 01:08:01,039
our business it's cyclical. I used to have. I'd have

1310
01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:03,239
two of the players in the top ten, and that

1311
01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:05,559
makes me really good. I'm a really important guy. I

1312
01:08:05,599 --> 01:08:08,119
don't have top ten. Now I'm dumb. Now I'm not

1313
01:08:08,199 --> 01:08:11,079
good at what I do. And now whoever whatever agent's

1314
01:08:11,119 --> 01:08:12,840
got a great player and now they're this s mart one.

1315
01:08:12,960 --> 01:08:15,280
So and that's the way that works. It's okay. It's

1316
01:08:15,280 --> 01:08:18,359
called position power, not personal power. So I didn't really

1317
01:08:18,439 --> 01:08:20,119
have a lot of guys that they were really wanting,

1318
01:08:20,119 --> 01:08:22,520
but I did have a couple, and they just said,

1319
01:08:23,079 --> 01:08:24,880
like I said, my guys were like, man, I'm playing

1320
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:25,520
for a lot of money.

1321
01:08:25,520 --> 01:08:25,960
Speaker 1: I don't care.

1322
01:08:26,039 --> 01:08:29,399
Speaker 2: I'm having a ball. They great family life. They I mean,

1323
01:08:29,479 --> 01:08:33,119
they weren't saying, please, I need more money. I mean,

1324
01:08:33,319 --> 01:08:35,119
you got guys making two or three million a year,

1325
01:08:35,359 --> 01:08:38,640
working twenty five weeks a year. I mean, it's dang

1326
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:43,319
good fun and they're playing golf. So how does it work?

1327
01:08:43,359 --> 01:08:46,920
I mean, obviously, what Live did was contact agents like me,

1328
01:08:47,079 --> 01:08:49,319
every one of them. They got Brooks's agent or whoever,

1329
01:08:49,439 --> 01:08:52,359
said here's an offer, and so I just went back.

1330
01:08:52,399 --> 01:08:56,439
I didn't want to have an offer, negotiate and then

1331
01:08:56,479 --> 01:08:58,199
go see the player. I just thought that wasn't fair

1332
01:08:58,199 --> 01:08:59,680
to live and so I just went and said, if

1333
01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:01,800
they don't have the interest, I call him, Hey, thank you,

1334
01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:04,840
but no thanks. And what is it?

1335
01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:09,199
Speaker 1: What is it that keeps players your players going, Yeah,

1336
01:09:09,199 --> 01:09:11,920
I'm good, I don't need I'm fine staying with the PGA.

1337
01:09:12,359 --> 01:09:15,640
Speaker 2: I am Look, I imagine. I mean a lot of

1338
01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:19,880
my players are from the Southeast and maybe a little

1339
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:26,079
different psychological but the they're making a lot of money

1340
01:09:26,159 --> 01:09:29,680
and they're like, they were happy, the tour is fun,

1341
01:09:29,760 --> 01:09:31,600
it's a great place. They were not unhappy.

1342
01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:34,000
Speaker 1: They and you can't win majors unless you're playing on

1343
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:34,720
the PGA Tour.

1344
01:09:34,840 --> 01:09:38,479
Speaker 2: Well, and see, yeah is that relevant. Yeah, somewhat relevant,

1345
01:09:38,479 --> 01:09:42,640
but not totally. I mean, I mean you can play,

1346
01:09:42,840 --> 01:09:45,319
you can earn your way into the British Opening and

1347
01:09:45,439 --> 01:09:49,399
the US Open. Anybody can qualify for most of the

1348
01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:51,199
I mean Lucas Glover when the US opened in two

1349
01:09:51,239 --> 01:09:54,199
thousand and nine, he had to qualify on a Monday.

1350
01:09:54,800 --> 01:09:56,560
He didn't get in because of the PGA Tour. He

1351
01:09:56,600 --> 01:10:00,039
went qualified and wonted himself. And again that's the the

1352
01:10:00,079 --> 01:10:02,880
whole thing is that you know, legacies are created by

1353
01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:06,800
the majors, financial security, is created by wherever you play.

1354
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:10,800
And I think that my guys just the lifestyle they

1355
01:10:10,920 --> 01:10:13,920
enjoy it their home. Traveling in America is much different

1356
01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:19,720
than having to go to Singapore, to Hong Kong, to Malaysia, whatever. Right, So,

1357
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:23,399
but if you can argue about a person that would

1358
01:10:23,399 --> 01:10:27,359
take money for a sport that he has got made

1359
01:10:27,439 --> 01:10:32,720
himself to the point to demand the dollars, and then

1360
01:10:32,760 --> 01:10:34,079
they do it, and they say, well, they're not going

1361
01:10:34,119 --> 01:10:36,520
to be as good. I mean, they did everything you

1362
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:39,319
could to make it's just it's horse. It's I mean,

1363
01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:42,880
Aaron Judd dropped the foul ball. I don't know how

1364
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:46,439
much he makes, but he makes a lot. You still

1365
01:10:46,439 --> 01:10:48,600
make mistakes even though you get paid a lot of money.

1366
01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:50,520
So now they're saying these guys are not as good

1367
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:53,600
because they're not playing against competition. It was just they

1368
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:56,319
were throwing everything they had out of the kitchen sink

1369
01:10:56,359 --> 01:10:59,079
at this thing, trying to make it not be anything.

1370
01:10:59,199 --> 01:11:01,399
And then they when none of that were, they go, Okay,

1371
01:11:01,479 --> 01:11:05,720
we'll partner with you. I mean, it's ridiculous. Never seen that.

1372
01:11:08,119 --> 01:11:13,119
Speaker 1: Wow, this could possibly be the longest episode I've ever done,

1373
01:11:13,399 --> 01:11:16,479
But I've never been so captivated. Yea, I have, but

1374
01:11:16,560 --> 01:11:20,720
I mean I am so captivated by where you've been,

1375
01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:23,199
what you've seen, what you've done, and I hope that

1376
01:11:23,239 --> 01:11:24,960
I can call you back and bring you back.

1377
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:26,439
Speaker 2: On the show because anytime it.

1378
01:11:26,399 --> 01:11:27,760
Speaker 1: Is absolutely fascinating.

1379
01:11:27,800 --> 01:11:28,399
Speaker 2: Man, jord It.

1380
01:11:28,439 --> 01:11:31,760
Speaker 1: Thanks for letting me talk well, thank you for joining us,

1381
01:11:31,880 --> 01:11:34,279
and the best of luck, and we'll keep our eyes

1382
01:11:34,319 --> 01:11:36,439
open and if something weird happens, I'm calling you.

1383
01:11:36,720 --> 01:11:38,880
Speaker 2: Some weird stuff's going to happen. I'll guarantee you in

1384
01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:40,720
the next few months. Thanks for letting come on.

1385
01:11:44,399 --> 01:11:47,439
Speaker 1: I would love to get your feedback on this episode,

1386
01:11:48,199 --> 01:11:51,520
as he was about as controversial and thought provoking as

1387
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:55,479
any guest I've ever had. Do you agree with his

1388
01:11:55,600 --> 01:11:59,199
thoughts on what's happening on the tour? Did he influence

1389
01:11:59,479 --> 01:12:03,000
any of your feelings towards Live. I know a lot

1390
01:12:03,039 --> 01:12:05,520
of people who are like I won't even look at

1391
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:08,319
a Bryson just Shamba video because he's on Live. You know,

1392
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:14,760
let's let's play nice, okay. And now he's well aware

1393
01:12:15,119 --> 01:12:17,960
that he said some things that may not make people

1394
01:12:18,039 --> 01:12:21,520
at the PGA tour headquarters happy, and during one of

1395
01:12:21,520 --> 01:12:23,800
our commercial breaks, he said this to me.

1396
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:26,079
Speaker 2: Well, no, I am out of him watches this because

1397
01:12:26,119 --> 01:12:28,880
he'll be well, he won't call me immediately if you

1398
01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:33,439
want to send it. He's not happy with me right now.

1399
01:12:33,680 --> 01:12:38,159
Speaker 1: Oh boy, please share your thoughts with me and keep

1400
01:12:38,239 --> 01:12:40,840
an eye open at golf Smarter on social media for

1401
01:12:41,159 --> 01:12:45,560
many clips from this episode, and they'll be video clips.

1402
01:12:45,600 --> 01:12:49,840
So after our recording, we spoke for another hour and

1403
01:12:49,880 --> 01:12:52,760
a half. It was kind of like living in a

1404
01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:58,439
ted talk. Hopefully he will be back often. Interestingly, this

1405
01:12:58,600 --> 01:13:01,039
Friday on Golf Smarter Mullak, we're going to feature the

1406
01:13:01,079 --> 01:13:05,479
first of two twenty thirteen at conversations with one of

1407
01:13:05,520 --> 01:13:08,800
the few PGA Tour players ever featured on our podcast,

1408
01:13:09,319 --> 01:13:13,119
Matt every What was the last time you heard from him? Right?

1409
01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:16,640
I mean he was a highly decorated college player and

1410
01:13:16,720 --> 01:13:21,840
showed tons of promise on the tour, But now where

1411
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:25,439
is he? I want to thank this week's Golf Smarter Ambassador,

1412
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:28,640
ge or Our Daleman's from Bowie, Maryland, who received all

1413
01:13:28,680 --> 01:13:32,479
three gifts for introducing today's episode. There's currently a way

1414
01:13:32,520 --> 01:13:34,479
for you to get all our gifts at once, just

1415
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:37,680
by writing an honest review where you listen to golf

1416
01:13:37,720 --> 01:13:40,439
Smarter and sending me what you wrote and where you

1417
01:13:40,479 --> 01:13:43,439
posted it. I've read a couple of new reviews on

1418
01:13:43,479 --> 01:13:47,079
Apple Podcasts this week which were incredibly kind. Thank you,

1419
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:50,479
but I don't know who wrote them. So please if

1420
01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:53,600
you did, or if you're going to email me and

1421
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:55,800
let me know what you said so that I can

1422
01:13:56,000 --> 01:13:59,119
track you down and then send you your thank you gifts,

1423
01:13:59,560 --> 01:14:01,399
or if you'd like, you can still be a Golf

1424
01:14:01,399 --> 01:14:04,760
Smarter ambassador by introducing an upcoming episode and we'll get

1425
01:14:04,760 --> 01:14:09,279
a gift to you there too. Okay, I am ready

1426
01:14:09,439 --> 01:14:13,640
to invite you to our next Golf Smarter adventure. I'm

1427
01:14:13,640 --> 01:14:16,760
gonna bring Tara and Allen from TMI Golf on soon

1428
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:20,479
for a short episode to discuss all the details. But

1429
01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:24,439
the web page is now available to reserve your spot,

1430
01:14:24,479 --> 01:14:28,720
which is limited. Here's some details. We're gonna do this

1431
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:32,479
on March twenty sixth through the thirtieth. That's a long

1432
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:37,319
weekend starting on Wednesday going through Sunday with three rounds

1433
01:14:37,319 --> 01:14:41,479
of golf on the Robert Trent Jones Trail near Birmingham, Alabama.

1434
01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:45,760
We'll play golf on Thursday at Oxmore Valley Ridge Course

1435
01:14:46,399 --> 01:14:50,319
Friday at the ross Bridge Golf Course and Saturday's round

1436
01:14:50,359 --> 01:14:54,840
will be at Oxmore Valley's Valley Course. Again. Space is limited,

1437
01:14:55,199 --> 01:14:59,399
but you can reserve your spot now at tmi goolf

1438
01:14:59,520 --> 01:15:03,840
dot com. Come slash golf smarter. There's so much to

1439
01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:06,399
share about this, and I'll continue to tell you about

1440
01:15:06,399 --> 01:15:09,520
the details as we get closer. But I'd love to

1441
01:15:09,520 --> 01:15:12,920
play with you as we get our first taste of

1442
01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:17,720
their legendary Robert Trent Jones Trail again March twenty six

1443
01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:21,880
through the thirtieth, twenty twenty five. Check your calendar right now.

1444
01:15:22,279 --> 01:15:25,720
You should be available and you'll definitely want to join us.

1445
01:15:25,920 --> 01:15:28,640
We're not going overseas. We're going to keep it as

1446
01:15:28,720 --> 01:15:31,119
simple as we can, but we're going to play the

1447
01:15:31,279 --> 01:15:34,000
Robert Trent Jones Trail. I've been wanting to do this

1448
01:15:34,039 --> 01:15:39,439
for years. Get all the details at tmigolf dot com,

1449
01:15:39,520 --> 01:15:42,640
slash golf Smarter, and I'll leave that link in today's

1450
01:15:42,640 --> 01:15:46,359
show notes. If you have any questions, comments, you'd like

1451
01:15:46,439 --> 01:15:50,279
to be on a future episode with where you're from,

1452
01:15:50,439 --> 01:15:53,079
where you play in the episode number, or maybe you've

1453
01:15:53,079 --> 01:15:57,479
submitted a review on your favorite golf podcast platform, or

1454
01:15:57,520 --> 01:16:00,680
have a suggestion for an upcoming episode. Please write to

1455
01:16:00,720 --> 01:16:04,199
Golf Smarter Podcast at gmail dot com or click on

1456
01:16:04,239 --> 01:16:09,039
the Heyfread button when you visit golfsmarter dot com