WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.760 --> 00:00:04.080 Oh hey, it's your thickest paras socks that don't fit 2 00:00:04.120 --> 00:00:06.320 in your boots. But you have no intention of leaving 3 00:00:06.360 --> 00:00:09.880 the house anyway. Ali Ward, breathe deep. Fill your lungs 4 00:00:09.919 --> 00:00:12.599 with some plant with and your brain with some info 5 00:00:12.679 --> 00:00:15.320 because this guest has bushel and knowledge. You ready, Okay? 6 00:00:15.480 --> 00:00:18.559 So this guest has a master's degree in ethnobotany from 7 00:00:18.559 --> 00:00:22.000 the University of Victoria and is just finishing her PhD 8 00:00:22.120 --> 00:00:25.600 studying ethnobotany at the University in Montreal. But her education 9 00:00:25.679 --> 00:00:28.320 goes much farther back as a member of the Squamish 10 00:00:28.440 --> 00:00:31.839 First Nation. Now she works with First Nations communities with 11 00:00:31.960 --> 00:00:36.159 this focus on traditional knowledge, renewal of plant foods and medicines. 12 00:00:36.240 --> 00:00:38.719 She's the author of the book Held by the Land, 13 00:00:38.920 --> 00:00:43.119 a Guide to Indigenous Plants for Wellness, and also founded 14 00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:46.960 the skincare company Scholowin' Botanicals. So this is what she 15 00:00:47.119 --> 00:00:49.840 does and she's amazing. So we're about to get into it. 16 00:00:50.000 --> 00:00:52.159 But first you may have noticed we had no episode 17 00:00:52.200 --> 00:00:54.719 last week, which has only happened once in our seven 18 00:00:54.799 --> 00:00:58.439 year history. Because I got a double whammy of RSV 19 00:00:59.159 --> 00:01:04.359 respiratory nasty and a bonus neurovirus, So that was not pleasant. 20 00:01:04.680 --> 00:01:07.959 But what was were the patrons at patreon dot com 21 00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:10.560 slash ologies who support the show and they send in 22 00:01:10.599 --> 00:01:13.959 their questions. You can join for one hot dollar a 23 00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:17.040 month and love that everyone opened their holiday gifts of 24 00:01:17.079 --> 00:01:20.519 ologies merch and tagged us and posts y'all look fantastic. 25 00:01:20.599 --> 00:01:22.920 And also thanks to everyone who just simply rates and 26 00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:25.200 reviews the show, which keeps us up in the charts 27 00:01:25.200 --> 00:01:28.159 so people can find it. And I read every single review. 28 00:01:28.239 --> 00:01:31.439 For example, this newly plucked one from Casey out here, 29 00:01:31.480 --> 00:01:34.079 who wrote this podcast is like waking up to a 30 00:01:34.120 --> 00:01:36.760 gentle thunderstorm on a day you don't have to go 31 00:01:36.799 --> 00:01:40.359 to work. Casey out there, what a vibe. Thank you, 32 00:01:40.439 --> 00:01:44.560 and thanks to anyone who left reviews. Okay onto ethno ecology. 33 00:01:44.599 --> 00:01:48.439 Ethno is from the Greek meaning nation and ecology of 34 00:01:48.439 --> 00:01:51.599 course where things live. And in this episode, we're going 35 00:01:51.680 --> 00:01:54.519 to sit down and chat about how to identify plants, 36 00:01:54.799 --> 00:01:59.680 Latin names, traditional names, how knowledge is passed or silenced, 37 00:01:59.799 --> 00:02:02.920 the chilling history that inspired some of the guests work 38 00:02:03.159 --> 00:02:08.039 uses for barks and berries and SAPs and teas, pharmaceuticals 39 00:02:08.240 --> 00:02:12.800 derived from indigenous knowledge ceremonial plants, the dews and absolute 40 00:02:12.879 --> 00:02:18.080 do nots of harvesting, Indigenous perspectives toward plant relations, invasive weeds, 41 00:02:18.280 --> 00:02:22.599 skin remedies, and so much more with ethnobotanist, author, entrepreneur, 42 00:02:22.840 --> 00:02:26.560 scholar and ethno ecologist that very soon to be doctor 43 00:02:26.599 --> 00:02:45.719 Lee Joseph. 44 00:02:45.759 --> 00:02:48.919 I'll just also introduce myself in my Squamish language, just 45 00:02:48.960 --> 00:02:51.280 as a cultural teaching to kind of open up the 46 00:02:51.319 --> 00:02:55.759 conversation and ground myself as well. Off squal Le Joseph, 47 00:02:55.840 --> 00:03:01.919 Quinsta stoet Kushaman School, mesh mail on an Oxton, Squalow 48 00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:06.159 and aok Tin Sequetal. So I just introduced myself. My 49 00:03:06.240 --> 00:03:09.199 English name is Lee Joseph, my ancestral name is Stowt, 50 00:03:09.560 --> 00:03:12.080 and I come from the Squamish First Nation. And I'm 51 00:03:12.120 --> 00:03:15.280 so happy to be here today with you. My heart 52 00:03:15.400 --> 00:03:15.719 is full. 53 00:03:16.120 --> 00:03:19.439 And if you're unfamiliar with the geography of her ancestral land, 54 00:03:19.840 --> 00:03:22.319 the main reserves lie on the shore of an inlet 55 00:03:22.439 --> 00:03:26.159 about an hour north of Vancouver, British Columbia in Canada. 56 00:03:26.479 --> 00:03:32.120 So picture a horizon of snow capped mountains and conifer forests, 57 00:03:32.560 --> 00:03:36.599 pebbled coastal beaches, with driftwood and of course a lot 58 00:03:36.639 --> 00:03:39.439 of greenery. I'm wondering if you can tell people who 59 00:03:39.800 --> 00:03:44.400 don't know what exactly is an ethnobotanist, and how did 60 00:03:44.479 --> 00:03:47.080 you decide this was the course you wanted to go 61 00:03:47.319 --> 00:03:50.759 at From a scholastic and academic way too. 62 00:03:51.840 --> 00:03:55.439 Absolutely, esnbotan used to find as the study of the 63 00:03:55.520 --> 00:03:59.639 cultural inter relationships between people and plants, and I would 64 00:03:59.639 --> 00:04:03.039 add in to that place as well. It hasn't always 65 00:04:03.080 --> 00:04:08.439 been defined like that. In fact, it has very colonial beginnings, 66 00:04:08.560 --> 00:04:12.520 starting as a very extractive area of research founded to 67 00:04:13.639 --> 00:04:16.680 look at the utilitarian nature of plants, what could be 68 00:04:16.800 --> 00:04:20.720 taken from cultural knowledge and then applied in a European 69 00:04:20.839 --> 00:04:24.959 context or a non indigenous context. And so since this 70 00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:29.360 term ethnobotany was coined in the late eighteen hundreds, it 71 00:04:29.439 --> 00:04:33.279 really has transformed and changed a lot. That being said 72 00:04:33.439 --> 00:04:37.959 that the field of study really is still very much 73 00:04:38.439 --> 00:04:43.079 in the early stages of having more indigenous voices at 74 00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:45.240 the table, both in the literature and kind of in 75 00:04:45.319 --> 00:04:47.040 the discipline. More broadly, so. 76 00:04:47.279 --> 00:04:50.959 Eth noboanny how humans use and relate to the plants 77 00:04:51.000 --> 00:04:54.079 around them. And this is morphed from a hey, how 78 00:04:54.120 --> 00:04:56.639 do y'all use this and how can we harvest all 79 00:04:56.720 --> 00:05:00.319 of it for our financial gain toward thankfully more Native 80 00:05:00.600 --> 00:05:02.160 voices and expertise. 81 00:05:02.720 --> 00:05:05.680 How I found out about this field of study. I 82 00:05:05.759 --> 00:05:08.639 went to a free lecture that doctor Nancy Turner gave 83 00:05:08.959 --> 00:05:14.199 at the Vancouver Public Library, and she was talking about 84 00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:17.759 her work as a prominent ethnobotanist working across BC and 85 00:05:17.839 --> 00:05:23.519 other regions within Canada, and just really sharing a storytelling 86 00:05:23.560 --> 00:05:26.839 approach and a relationship based approach to how she had 87 00:05:26.959 --> 00:05:30.120 been working with elders and different communities, you know, over 88 00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:33.079 the course of her career. And I remember leaving that 89 00:05:33.279 --> 00:05:36.399 talk and feeling like, oh my goodness, this is something 90 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:39.600 that I could study. And I really wanted to pursue 91 00:05:39.959 --> 00:05:45.600 studying with Nazi Turners. So I set my I guess 92 00:05:45.800 --> 00:05:49.519 goals to upgrade all my science courses because I hadn't 93 00:05:49.560 --> 00:05:53.680 been a quote unquote science student in high school, and 94 00:05:53.839 --> 00:05:59.920 then to apply for a botany undergrad and then worked 95 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:02.399 towards doing a master's with Nancy. 96 00:06:02.879 --> 00:06:06.439 Just a side note, Nancy Turner absolute boss. She's an 97 00:06:06.519 --> 00:06:10.759 ethnobotanist and emeritus professor at the University of Victoria for 98 00:06:10.879 --> 00:06:14.160 over five decades. This woman has worked with First Nation 99 00:06:14.319 --> 00:06:18.680 specialists and elders to document their traditional knowledge of plants 100 00:06:18.759 --> 00:06:21.000 and places. For more on her work, you can see 101 00:06:21.040 --> 00:06:24.319 the twenty twenty volume she edited titled Plants, People and 102 00:06:24.439 --> 00:06:28.800 Places The Roles of Ethnobotany and ethno Ecology in Indigenous 103 00:06:28.839 --> 00:06:32.839 People's Land Rights in Canada and Beyond. But Yes, Lee 104 00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:35.879 applied to do a master's with doctor Turner as her 105 00:06:35.959 --> 00:06:39.519 advisor and folks, I hear this from a lot of 106 00:06:39.639 --> 00:06:44.560 ologists whose lives were changed by attending a chance free lecture. 107 00:06:44.879 --> 00:06:47.959 So go to the free talks. Maybe they even have snacks. 108 00:06:48.079 --> 00:06:49.199 I don't know. I made that up. 109 00:06:49.639 --> 00:06:52.360 And so this was really exciting for me because I 110 00:06:52.519 --> 00:06:54.519 was at a point where I was looking to go 111 00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:58.279 back to post secondary. I've been working in the outdoor 112 00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:02.040 guiding and kind of advent true leadership space for a 113 00:07:02.120 --> 00:07:04.439 few years, and I realized that really what I loved 114 00:07:04.480 --> 00:07:07.199 about that was being outside and I really loved connecting 115 00:07:07.399 --> 00:07:10.199 to my natural environment. But I was really wanting to 116 00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:13.519 find an area of study where I could incorporate that. Plus, 117 00:07:13.879 --> 00:07:18.120 coming from a mixed background of Indigenous and European ancestry, 118 00:07:18.879 --> 00:07:22.079 I had always had this conversation within myself about you know, 119 00:07:22.199 --> 00:07:25.160 where do I belong, how do I connect more deeply 120 00:07:25.279 --> 00:07:28.519 to my Indigenous heritage and roots. Even though I'd spent 121 00:07:28.600 --> 00:07:31.600 a lot of time growing up visiting family and in community, 122 00:07:32.240 --> 00:07:36.399 I hadn't lived in Squamish, which is the home territory 123 00:07:36.480 --> 00:07:40.319 on my dad's side for our family. And so yeah, 124 00:07:40.399 --> 00:07:44.319 this area of study really felt like a pathway towards 125 00:07:45.079 --> 00:07:49.759 those things. But certainly there's been some you know, lots 126 00:07:49.800 --> 00:07:53.319 of learning and kind of surprises along the way as well. 127 00:07:54.079 --> 00:07:58.680 When you say surprises, good surprises, bad surprises, I. 128 00:07:58.680 --> 00:08:01.920 Would say both, I feel you and I can elaborate 129 00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:05.319 a little bit. So some of the good surprises have 130 00:08:05.480 --> 00:08:11.639 been just how direct a path plants have really guided 131 00:08:11.680 --> 00:08:16.040 me on in terms of reconnecting with community, finding a 132 00:08:16.120 --> 00:08:20.199 deeper purpose for my research. Like when I had kids, 133 00:08:20.439 --> 00:08:23.680 I was really aware that my parents' generation, my grandparents' 134 00:08:23.720 --> 00:08:26.639 generation on my father's side, did not have a chance 135 00:08:26.839 --> 00:08:31.079 to really engage in land based knowledge and experiences because 136 00:08:31.079 --> 00:08:34.240 a lot of their time and energy was really dedicated 137 00:08:34.279 --> 00:08:38.720 to surviving, you know, as residential school survivors and just 138 00:08:38.879 --> 00:08:42.000 many of the aspects there. And so when I had kids, 139 00:08:42.080 --> 00:08:46.440 I really wanted to rebuild the intergenerational transmission of knowledge 140 00:08:46.519 --> 00:08:50.559 and giving my kids that sense of belonging on the land. 141 00:08:50.720 --> 00:08:53.279 And they did that alongside me as I really kind 142 00:08:53.279 --> 00:08:57.360 of deepened my own hands on and experiential learning with plants. 143 00:08:57.480 --> 00:08:59.960 And so those were all great. And then some of 144 00:09:00.200 --> 00:09:07.080 the harder surprises, I guess were as I was going 145 00:09:07.159 --> 00:09:11.279 through my undergrad and botany, I absolutely loved it. When 146 00:09:11.320 --> 00:09:14.120 I got to my upper level botany courses. I loved 147 00:09:14.159 --> 00:09:18.200 the taxonomy courses. I loved learning the Latin names, you know. 148 00:09:18.279 --> 00:09:20.399 I was just so excited to be learning about plants. 149 00:09:21.039 --> 00:09:25.120 And towards the end of that degree, I received a 150 00:09:25.600 --> 00:09:29.759 recording actually from Nancy Turner, who was my master's supervisor, 151 00:09:30.279 --> 00:09:32.879 who I had set out to study with, and the 152 00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:35.799 recording was from some work she'd done in the seventies 153 00:09:35.879 --> 00:09:39.240 in Squamish with elders, and it was an audio recording 154 00:09:39.320 --> 00:09:42.080 of these elders saying the plant names in the Scopemish 155 00:09:42.120 --> 00:09:54.399 snatchem or my Squamish language yep see swat stall slay. 156 00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:57.120 Chipman told me. 157 00:09:59.159 --> 00:10:00.120 Course this eighth. 158 00:10:02.919 --> 00:10:08.000 To not and it was really incredible. I was so excited. 159 00:10:08.080 --> 00:10:11.240 I listened to these tracks over and over and over again, 160 00:10:11.879 --> 00:10:14.200 and then I noticed a you know, a sadness or 161 00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:18.759 a feeling come up of just unease. And it took 162 00:10:18.840 --> 00:10:20.919 me a while to kind of reflect on what that was, 163 00:10:21.679 --> 00:10:25.360 but it was really just again that sort of feeling 164 00:10:25.720 --> 00:10:28.879 of I wanted this language to belong to me, and 165 00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:31.279 I wanted to belong to this language, but it felt 166 00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:34.080 so foreign to me. It was difficult for me to 167 00:10:34.200 --> 00:10:38.360 access to different sounds in the language. And I recognized 168 00:10:38.440 --> 00:10:42.080 that that was because, you know, my parents, my grandparents, 169 00:10:42.399 --> 00:10:45.559 they were not language speakers. And the reason for that 170 00:10:45.960 --> 00:10:49.600 again stems back to the impacts of colonization and the 171 00:10:49.639 --> 00:10:52.120 residential school system within my family. 172 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:55.960 And heads Up Lee unfortunately couldn't obtain those recordings. So 173 00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:58.039 what you just heard was a sample of Squamish language 174 00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:01.759 from the YouTube account Squamish Language and just for context. 175 00:11:02.240 --> 00:11:05.519 Canada's residential school system began in the late eighteen hundreds 176 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:09.399 with one hundred and fifty thousand estimated First Nations children 177 00:11:09.759 --> 00:11:13.399 removed from their homes and family to attend Christian run 178 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:17.799 schools that would supposedly civilize them and change their clothing 179 00:11:17.960 --> 00:11:20.440 and keep them from learning their native languages and way 180 00:11:20.480 --> 00:11:23.080 of life, and up to a third of these children 181 00:11:23.240 --> 00:11:26.399 may have died. Mass graves are still being found in. 182 00:11:26.440 --> 00:11:29.480 The last residential school in Canada closed in nineteen ninety seven, 183 00:11:30.360 --> 00:11:33.879 not eighteen ninety seven, nineteen ninety seven. They were operating 184 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:37.320 up until the late nineteen nineties. So for more on this, 185 00:11:37.639 --> 00:11:40.720 including survivor's testimonies, you can see the twenty fifteen paper 186 00:11:40.840 --> 00:11:44.240 Honoring the Truth, Reconciling for the Future, Summary of the 187 00:11:44.279 --> 00:11:47.360 Final Report of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada. 188 00:11:47.720 --> 00:11:51.320 And in twenty twenty two, Canada's House of Commons finally 189 00:11:51.519 --> 00:11:56.279 and unanimously recognized the residential school system as genocide and 190 00:11:56.360 --> 00:12:00.399 the victims and survivors legacies. They're recognized on September thirtieth 191 00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:03.000 every year, and that's known as Orange Shirt Day. That 192 00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:06.399 was coined from the story of one survivor, Phyllis Jack 193 00:12:06.559 --> 00:12:10.600 Webstad's account of having this bright new shirt that was 194 00:12:10.639 --> 00:12:12.960 orange that her grandmother gave to her before she left, 195 00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:14.639 and it was stripped from her wardrobe and it was 196 00:12:14.720 --> 00:12:17.759 replaced with a uniform and all ties to her real 197 00:12:17.799 --> 00:12:21.639 life felt severed. And again Lee's family was also impacted 198 00:12:21.720 --> 00:12:23.120 by the residential school system. 199 00:12:23.639 --> 00:12:27.120 So that sadness was there at the same time as 200 00:12:27.159 --> 00:12:31.960 this excitement you know about botany and really looking at 201 00:12:32.000 --> 00:12:34.840 this path of learning with plants from both I guess, 202 00:12:34.879 --> 00:12:37.679 a Western science, you know, approach, but also a deeply 203 00:12:37.960 --> 00:12:41.360 personal and culturally led path as well. 204 00:12:41.799 --> 00:12:46.759 So it's interesting that that emotionally impacted you through language 205 00:12:47.200 --> 00:12:50.600 at the same time that you like learning the Latin 206 00:12:50.679 --> 00:12:54.080 names of things, but also hearing them in the indigenous 207 00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:58.080 language of your ancestors. I know that you write about 208 00:12:58.360 --> 00:13:02.440 plants being like relatives, being something more related to do 209 00:13:02.559 --> 00:13:06.039 you feel like you're learning the identity of the same 210 00:13:06.159 --> 00:13:10.960 plants from two really different perspectives and different languages, from 211 00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:12.320 indigenous versus Western. 212 00:13:12.799 --> 00:13:16.639 Absolutely, I think that was something that I really felt, 213 00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:21.840 especially in my science undergrad within the scientific method and 214 00:13:21.919 --> 00:13:25.000 within the botany classes I was taking, or the organic 215 00:13:25.080 --> 00:13:30.600 chemistry classes, or you know, there wasn't the space for 216 00:13:31.039 --> 00:13:33.919 me to kind of insert myself and my culture and 217 00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:38.639 me personally within the content that I was learning, within 218 00:13:38.919 --> 00:13:41.360 the papers I was reading, even in the methods of 219 00:13:41.399 --> 00:13:44.440 writing that I was learning. You know, hearing the names 220 00:13:44.519 --> 00:13:47.759 spoken really started me off on a different trajectory, I 221 00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:50.879 would say, with both my master's research and especially my 222 00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:53.159 doctoral research which I'm just completing now. 223 00:13:53.559 --> 00:13:55.440 For more on her master's work, you can see her 224 00:13:55.519 --> 00:14:01.440 thesis Finding Our Roots ethno Ecological restoration of Thosa Fortilaria, Kamsha, 225 00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:04.879 Tensus and Iconic plant Food in the Squamish River Estuary, 226 00:14:04.960 --> 00:14:08.440 British Columbia, which is about the plant rice root. Rice 227 00:14:08.559 --> 00:14:11.080 root is sometimes called black lily and it looks like 228 00:14:11.159 --> 00:14:14.799 a tiger lily with narrow leaves and this deep purple 229 00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:19.120 modeled flower that bows to the ground. But while getting 230 00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:21.360 that degree, it wasn't all roses. 231 00:14:21.799 --> 00:14:25.480 One of the other I guess points of discomfort for 232 00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:28.159 me was when I got to my master's I was 233 00:14:28.679 --> 00:14:33.360 pouring through literature, and really the literature I was drawing 234 00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:37.360 on was mostly older ethnographies written by non Indigenous researchers 235 00:14:37.519 --> 00:14:43.120 or ethnographers, and I didn't see myself reflected in that. 236 00:14:43.679 --> 00:14:47.120 And in fact, the language that was utilized to speak 237 00:14:47.120 --> 00:14:51.320 about Indigenous people indigenous knowledge was really difficult, you know, 238 00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:56.279 it was really hard to read and remove my own 239 00:14:56.360 --> 00:15:00.840 personal response, you know, emotional response to the racist language 240 00:15:00.840 --> 00:15:04.440 and the stereotypical language embedded in these documents, but also 241 00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:07.039 to see like, oh, my gosh, here's an absolute gem 242 00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:10.919 of information about root garden cultivation, which was the focus 243 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:13.840 of my masters. And this is changing and has changed 244 00:15:13.879 --> 00:15:15.639 since then. But I really felt at that point that 245 00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:18.960 as an academic, I wanted to be able to contribute 246 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:23.759 to the literature in a way that upcoming indigenous scholars 247 00:15:23.879 --> 00:15:28.480 and students would see and feel themselves reflected. 248 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:32.440 And which is a beautiful legacy. I'm sure that that's 249 00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:33.679 got to feel really good. 250 00:15:34.360 --> 00:15:35.200 Yeah, definitely. 251 00:15:35.799 --> 00:15:38.159 And when it comes to plants, I don't know if 252 00:15:38.200 --> 00:15:39.919 you know this, but there's a lot of them. So 253 00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:42.879 what's that plan called that plant? There's just a lot 254 00:15:42.919 --> 00:15:47.879 of plants and there in so many places. Can you 255 00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:50.240 tell me a little bit about when you're doing your research, 256 00:15:50.679 --> 00:15:55.159 where is the scope for it? How local is local? 257 00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:59.159 And also how does one define a native or indigenous 258 00:15:59.159 --> 00:16:02.159 plant versus something that's introduced and it's been around for 259 00:16:02.440 --> 00:16:06.159 a while. Where do you even how do you wrap 260 00:16:06.200 --> 00:16:08.399 your brain abound it if you're not if you're not 261 00:16:08.480 --> 00:16:11.159 a plant person, this fun is green. 262 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:18.320 Yeah, great questions. So I would say that it would 263 00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:20.919 vary depending on the approach. Ethn Nobotany is a very 264 00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:24.320 interdisciplinary field of study. So people can come at this 265 00:16:24.519 --> 00:16:29.559 from varying backgrounds and pathways. I would say that for me, 266 00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:34.679 it was really important to understand the basic some of 267 00:16:34.759 --> 00:16:36.720 the things that you would find in a plant field guide, 268 00:16:36.759 --> 00:16:39.240 for example, So where are you going to find this 269 00:16:39.399 --> 00:16:43.120 plant growing? What are some of the key identifiers, what 270 00:16:43.360 --> 00:16:46.720 is the range of this plant? And then to add 271 00:16:46.759 --> 00:16:51.159 on to that, when it comes to that cultural interaction 272 00:16:51.639 --> 00:16:54.399 with a plant, which may involve harvesting part of that, 273 00:16:55.080 --> 00:16:59.480 what does sustainable harvesting or cultivation look like? 274 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:02.679 So yes, first off, who are you plant, where do 275 00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:05.599 you like to live? Who knows about you? And how 276 00:17:05.720 --> 00:17:09.079 much of you can we use without taking advantage and 277 00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:11.880 making you sad? So one way to start out might 278 00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:15.160 be the app seek Biinaturalist, which lets you log and 279 00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:18.759 share encounters with like flora and fauna. Or of course 280 00:17:19.160 --> 00:17:21.759 there's a book called Held by the Land, A Guide 281 00:17:21.799 --> 00:17:24.519 to Indigenous Plants for a Wellness, which was written by 282 00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:28.359 someone named Lee Joseph, with whom I'm doing an episode presently. 283 00:17:28.839 --> 00:17:30.359 You know, I get a lot of people who are 284 00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:33.359 interested in planting native plants in their garden, for example, 285 00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:35.799 which I think is such an excellent way to get 286 00:17:35.839 --> 00:17:40.240 acquainted with plants to not put pressure on wild native 287 00:17:40.279 --> 00:17:43.319 plant populations, and especially if there's a question about the 288 00:17:43.359 --> 00:17:46.880 cultural sensitivity of a particular plant, going to a native 289 00:17:46.880 --> 00:17:49.759 plant nursery is such a great way to have that 290 00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:54.319 conversation about where that plant is sourced, about actually growing 291 00:17:54.400 --> 00:17:56.599 that plant in your garden as opposed to going out 292 00:17:56.920 --> 00:18:02.119 into wild spaces to say forage plant. So native plants, 293 00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:04.319 you know, as I understand them, are plants that occur 294 00:18:04.480 --> 00:18:08.200 naturally in a region in which they have evolved, you know, 295 00:18:08.319 --> 00:18:14.279 over a long time frame. Often within ethnobotany, these plants 296 00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:17.400 have co evolved with people, and so there are in 297 00:18:17.599 --> 00:18:22.720 depth management and cultivation systems of knowledge and practice that 298 00:18:22.839 --> 00:18:28.720 go along with those tools like fire, like weeding, like pruning, 299 00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:33.680 you know, different methods to really ensure that particular culturally 300 00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:38.119 important plant, food, or medicine or material species are really 301 00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:43.359 thriving in those managed environments. For me, I started with 302 00:18:43.759 --> 00:18:47.079 a very particular focus on the plants that are considered 303 00:18:47.160 --> 00:18:50.839 native plants and culturally important plants within the Squamish territory, 304 00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:54.720 and as I've worked in other indigenous communities, that's really 305 00:18:54.759 --> 00:18:57.319 a starting point is going to the community and starting 306 00:18:57.400 --> 00:19:01.440 that conversation or engaging in that conversation of what are 307 00:19:01.960 --> 00:19:05.960 the plants of interest? Who in the community is already 308 00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:09.240 an expert so that as a researcher, you're not going 309 00:19:09.319 --> 00:19:12.400 in and assuming that you're going to be bringing the expertise, 310 00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:15.960 but instead you can bring a set of skills and 311 00:19:16.559 --> 00:19:19.799 background to support work that's already happening in connection to 312 00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:23.519 culturally important plants. Out of the multitude of plants growing 313 00:19:23.559 --> 00:19:27.880 in a region, not all plants are considered culturally important. 314 00:19:27.960 --> 00:19:30.359 All plants would be considered important in terms of that 315 00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:35.279 relational aspect and us being connected to everything in our 316 00:19:35.400 --> 00:19:40.559 natural environments, that foundational understanding of how we're all connected. 317 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:45.440 So yes, hello, plants, all plants, even the interlopers. Should 318 00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:46.240 we be mad at them? 319 00:19:46.680 --> 00:19:50.480 There are plants that have originated from elsewhere that have 320 00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:55.160 been naturalized in an area, and some examples from Squamish 321 00:19:55.240 --> 00:20:00.279 would be broad leaf plantained for example, has become really 322 00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:06.359 integrated into local ethnobotanical knowledge and practices, burdock root. So 323 00:20:06.519 --> 00:20:13.279 there are examples of plants that are not considered native, 324 00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:16.200 but do you get invited in in terms of really 325 00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:19.720 valuing their role and the gifts that they carry come 326 00:20:19.799 --> 00:20:20.680 in please for. 327 00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:24.319 You specifically, when it came down to which plants you 328 00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:27.839 were going to really study and focus on, how did 329 00:20:27.880 --> 00:20:30.839 you select from so many beautiful, wonderful plants, how did 330 00:20:30.920 --> 00:20:33.160 you narrow down which ones you would study more intensely? 331 00:20:34.039 --> 00:20:39.079 Right in my masters, the selection of plant species was 332 00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:45.319 really guided by the management practice in a system called 333 00:20:45.480 --> 00:20:51.279 estuary root gardens. So these root gardens were family owned 334 00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:56.079 and managed and were located in estuary environments, so where 335 00:20:56.359 --> 00:20:59.920 fresh water and ocean water mixed and create this brackish 336 00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:04.720 water environment that is exposed to tidal influence that has 337 00:21:04.839 --> 00:21:09.160 varying degrees of salinity and is just a really really 338 00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:13.599 biodiversely rich area an ecosystem. 339 00:21:13.839 --> 00:21:17.519 So remember that deep purplish modeled lily that we mentioned earlier, 340 00:21:17.799 --> 00:21:20.599 So at its roots is a bulb that looks like 341 00:21:20.920 --> 00:21:23.799 you stuck your dirty fingers into a rice cooker and 342 00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:27.559 then wadded together a loose lump. And that bulb is 343 00:21:27.640 --> 00:21:32.559 composed of rice looking bulblets that are traditionally harvested to 344 00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:35.960 leave what's called the grandmother bulb, which is replanted to 345 00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:39.680 continue growing. And that involves a respect and a foresight. 346 00:21:40.119 --> 00:21:41.599 That's very uncolonialist. 347 00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:47.279 So estraroot gardens have three main root species that were 348 00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:51.680 really intensively cultivated, and so spring bank clover is one, 349 00:21:51.880 --> 00:21:56.200 Pacific silver weed and northern rice root. And so the 350 00:21:56.359 --> 00:22:00.720 species northern rice root in the Squamish language is clossom 351 00:22:01.960 --> 00:22:05.640 and in Latin is Fritillaria camps a census. And this 352 00:22:06.079 --> 00:22:09.680 plant became the focus of my research, and the reason 353 00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:15.359 for that was really within my community. And in early conversations, 354 00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:18.920 I was asking who were the plant people in the 355 00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:23.400 community who were already carrying this knowledge, what are their 356 00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:28.200 priorities in terms of me being both a squamishtation member 357 00:22:28.279 --> 00:22:31.759 but also a researcher coming into community, what value can 358 00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:35.200 I bring to this interest and desire to connect more 359 00:22:35.240 --> 00:22:40.039 deeply to our plant relatives. And this was one plant 360 00:22:40.119 --> 00:22:44.839 that kept coming up, clossom or northern rice route. And 361 00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:47.960 the interesting thing to me was that the people bringing 362 00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:50.880 up this plant had never actually seen it, because it's 363 00:22:50.920 --> 00:22:55.440 been really highly impacted through just the history of a 364 00:22:55.519 --> 00:23:00.839 Squamish estuary. But this plant had this place and people memory, 365 00:23:01.039 --> 00:23:05.200 you know, remembering grandparents talking about it, being really enamored 366 00:23:05.319 --> 00:23:09.119 by the fact that it's an edible bulb plant. That 367 00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:15.400 has been cultivated because carbohydrates in a traditional diet really 368 00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:18.319 were much harder to come by. You know, these root 369 00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:21.880 vegetables really played a really important role in traditional diet. 370 00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:24.079 So that's one reason that Lee zeroed in on it. 371 00:23:24.359 --> 00:23:27.480 And according to the twenty nineteen paper to Combat Diabetes 372 00:23:27.640 --> 00:23:32.599 Native People's Rediscover Traditional Plants Ethnobotanists partner with Indigenous communities, 373 00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:37.119 it reads, in the colonial era, the military deliberately destroyed 374 00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:40.440 these root gardens as part of a campaign to subdue 375 00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:45.119 Native people. Yet the colonial government insisted that Indigenous people 376 00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:48.480 did no farming, a claim that was used to justify 377 00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:52.640 seizure of their lands by settlers for cattle pasture and 378 00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:57.119 European agriculture. So Lee's book notes that the Northern rice 379 00:23:57.200 --> 00:24:01.559 route takes five to seven years to germinate from a seed, 380 00:24:01.880 --> 00:24:04.839 which is why conservation now is so important. Also, we'll 381 00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:06.799 link in the show notes another great episode we have 382 00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:11.640 on indigenous cooking called Indigenous Colonology with Indigit Kitchen's Mariah Gladstone. 383 00:24:11.960 --> 00:24:15.880 And we also just released a shorter edited Smology's version 384 00:24:15.920 --> 00:24:18.759 which is kid safe. But yes, Lee worked with her 385 00:24:18.799 --> 00:24:22.920 community who engaged in her field research and shared valuable 386 00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:26.000 history and current contact with her as well. 387 00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:29.319 Totally. Yeah, it was a huge learning for me as well, 388 00:24:29.720 --> 00:24:31.519 which was really wonderful. 389 00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:35.039 How do you separate what is field work versus what 390 00:24:35.279 --> 00:24:37.759 is going on a hike? Are you stopping and looking 391 00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:40.440 at every plant? I imagine that must be so fun. 392 00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:45.519 It's so fun, much to the annoyance sometimes of my family. 393 00:24:47.480 --> 00:24:52.839 My kids just call me the plant lady, and they 394 00:24:53.200 --> 00:24:56.119 have loved you know, especially when they were little. They 395 00:24:56.160 --> 00:24:58.519 would just come out with me and they tootle around 396 00:24:58.640 --> 00:25:03.000 while I was out picking cottonwood buds or checking up 397 00:25:03.079 --> 00:25:05.880 on where different plants were kind of in the in 398 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:10.079 their seasons. I remember we were in Colloquiat Territory on 399 00:25:10.119 --> 00:25:13.039 the west coast of Vancouver Island, close to the area 400 00:25:13.400 --> 00:25:15.880 that's now known as Tafino, and we were on a 401 00:25:15.960 --> 00:25:20.119