WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:03.200 And so it's just kind of an inner experience that 2 00:00:03.680 --> 00:00:06.919 might be manifested in different ways, but there's no external 3 00:00:07.000 --> 00:00:10.480 form to it. So you have figures like Schleiermacher, you 4 00:00:10.599 --> 00:00:16.039 have Julius Bellhausen, but it's really Bellehausen who's the pioneer 5 00:00:16.160 --> 00:00:20.480 of critiquing the texts. And Bellhausen says, the problem isn't 6 00:00:20.519 --> 00:00:24.000 really the Bible as a whole, it's actually the Old Testament. 7 00:00:24.239 --> 00:00:25.920 And what we've got to do is get rid of 8 00:00:25.960 --> 00:00:31.519 all these judaic ideas of ceremonies and calendars and going 9 00:00:31.559 --> 00:00:35.200 to some actual building and having some sort of baptism 10 00:00:35.280 --> 00:00:38.079 or whatever. All that needs to be wiped away. And 11 00:00:38.119 --> 00:00:39.799 he thought the basic way to do that would be 12 00:00:39.840 --> 00:00:44.240 to cut up the Old Testament and figure out that, oh, actually, 13 00:00:44.280 --> 00:00:47.679 none of this is really from a deity. It's actually 14 00:00:48.399 --> 00:00:51.719 a combination of different traditions. And you have what's called 15 00:00:51.719 --> 00:00:58.280 the it's called the school that has this idea of 16 00:00:59.880 --> 00:01:03.039 the documentary hypothesis. And this is where you get the 17 00:01:03.079 --> 00:01:06.239 idea of J. E. P. D. The Yahwist tradition, the 18 00:01:06.280 --> 00:01:10.760 Ylowist tradition, the priestly tradition, and the deuteronomous tradition. And 19 00:01:10.879 --> 00:01:14.400 so anytime you do any textual studies, you'll come across 20 00:01:14.439 --> 00:01:17.719 all of this, and the idea is that, oh, well, well, 21 00:01:17.760 --> 00:01:19.439 so what is it? All right, So if it's not 22 00:01:19.480 --> 00:01:21.519 from God, what is it? Well, it looks like there's 23 00:01:21.560 --> 00:01:25.480 all these different traditions J. E. P. D. Right, there's 24 00:01:25.519 --> 00:01:28.400 the Yahaist tradition, and these are the guys who at 25 00:01:28.400 --> 00:01:31.439 some point in the Old Testament were writing Genesis or whatever. 26 00:01:32.599 --> 00:01:35.480 They were using the term yahweh. Then there's this other 27 00:01:35.519 --> 00:01:37.799 group of people. They were the Elohists, and they were 28 00:01:37.879 --> 00:01:41.280 using the term eloheen. And then there was the priestly 29 00:01:41.400 --> 00:01:44.879 cast and they were using the priestly ideas, and they 30 00:01:44.920 --> 00:01:48.640 interjected the levites and the temple and the ceremonials, and 31 00:01:48.719 --> 00:01:52.480 so it's basically just a big hodgepodge of garbage according 32 00:01:52.519 --> 00:01:55.799 to Vellhausen. And so what he thought needed to be happening, 33 00:01:55.920 --> 00:01:58.239 needed to happen was purge all that Old Testament jump 34 00:01:58.280 --> 00:02:01.280 in his mind, and then you get based the simple 35 00:02:01.319 --> 00:02:06.439 message in the New Testament in Jesus. And in theological terms, 36 00:02:06.519 --> 00:02:10.240 this is really just a rehashing of the gnostic theology 37 00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:14.000 of the Early Church, where you had various teachers like 38 00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:19.639 Valentinus and other Gnostics who taught that that the Old 39 00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:22.360 Testament texts were from an evil God and that was 40 00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:25.599 a source of all problems. And really we just need 41 00:02:25.639 --> 00:02:29.800 the simple inner message of Jesus. Now. So that's a 42 00:02:29.840 --> 00:02:32.360 long winded thing, but it's important because this is where 43 00:02:32.360 --> 00:02:35.199 we're going to get to ecumenism. So I should add 44 00:02:35.240 --> 00:02:38.520 as well that Martin Luther is important in this because 45 00:02:38.560 --> 00:02:41.599 he wrote a famous treatise called against the Jews in 46 00:02:41.639 --> 00:02:46.479 their Lives, and this would be very influential in German 47 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:49.360 movements of anti Semitism of the time of World War Two. 48 00:02:49.520 --> 00:02:53.599 It would kind of have a rebirth, not castigating Germans, 49 00:02:54.120 --> 00:02:57.680 not saying that the Jews and Zionists are good, just 50 00:02:57.719 --> 00:03:01.000 trying to state what was going on. So Luther also 51 00:03:01.199 --> 00:03:06.400 of course shared a hatred for the law for Judaism ceremonies. 52 00:03:06.800 --> 00:03:11.479 There's numerous statements in Luther's writings where he speaks explicitly 53 00:03:11.599 --> 00:03:14.840 this way. He says such things such as, I wish 54 00:03:14.840 --> 00:03:17.719 I could punch Moses' teeth out, you know. He says 55 00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:20.840 that everything in the in the Old Testament is you know, 56 00:03:21.199 --> 00:03:24.919 worthy of the trash man literally, and so This is 57 00:03:24.960 --> 00:03:27.960 where we get in Lutheran theology, the idea of the 58 00:03:28.080 --> 00:03:32.159 radical dichotomy of law and gospel. Right, So Luther had 59 00:03:32.159 --> 00:03:34.199 this idea that you go through the Bible and you 60 00:03:34.280 --> 00:03:37.520 read some textas law, toss that it out, read some 61 00:03:37.560 --> 00:03:42.319 Texas Gospel thumbs up. That's good. And so this idea 62 00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:45.879 of everything judaic, so so called needing to be purged, 63 00:03:46.719 --> 00:03:49.080 actually kind of has a precedent in Luther, and then 64 00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:53.400 it filters down to Bellhausen. And with Bellhausen and the 65 00:03:53.439 --> 00:03:56.919 documentary hypothesis, you have this idea that the entire Bible 66 00:03:56.960 --> 00:04:01.159 could be remodeled, cut up, chopped up. Now fast forward 67 00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:03.520 about one hundred years and the turn of the century 68 00:04:03.560 --> 00:04:05.919 you have the extension of that which was, hey, wait 69 00:04:05.960 --> 00:04:10.479 a minute, the documentary hypothesis is not just good enough. 70 00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:13.639 We actually need the Jesus quest. And so the Jesus 71 00:04:13.719 --> 00:04:16.800 quest is this idea that we need to get to 72 00:04:16.839 --> 00:04:20.000 the real sources of Jesus. And said they said, well, 73 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:22.360 the New Testaments the exact same way. It's all from 74 00:04:22.360 --> 00:04:25.079 a bunch of different sources. It's a munch of gobblygoog 75 00:04:25.160 --> 00:04:29.360 It doesn't mean anything. It's just a reflection of the 76 00:04:29.480 --> 00:04:34.319 Jewish Messianism and millennialism of the first century, and so 77 00:04:34.439 --> 00:04:40.160 it has a whole bunch of competing contradictory sources. And 78 00:04:40.519 --> 00:04:44.279 these would be things like the enigmatic queue that you'll 79 00:04:44.319 --> 00:04:46.720 learn about in textual studies. And there is no such 80 00:04:46.759 --> 00:04:50.600 thing as que. It's very much like Darwinism. It's just 81 00:04:50.680 --> 00:04:57.720 a hypothesized source for something like the Gospel of Mark. Now, 82 00:04:57.839 --> 00:05:02.480 curious side note, in textuals this is actually no longer 83 00:05:02.519 --> 00:05:08.319 even adhere to the cutting edged so called progressive academia. 84 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:11.160 If you go to places like Yale University, you can 85 00:05:11.240 --> 00:05:14.839 clind lectures of the debunking of Q. All right, but 86 00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:17.920 the Q was actually very popular for many years as 87 00:05:17.959 --> 00:05:22.800 a supposed source of various sections of the New Testament. So, 88 00:05:24.439 --> 00:05:26.920 as we see, this is always in progress. There's not 89 00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:31.240 any real consistency, and you'll still find scholars citing Queue, 90 00:05:31.279 --> 00:05:35.519 even though the cutting edge liberal scholars no longer adhere 91 00:05:35.519 --> 00:05:38.720 to it. So it's another one of these things like Darwinism, 92 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:43.399 where it's all in the scientific realm of academia, and 93 00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:46.120 it's just kind of trends, is really all it is. 94 00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:51.279 It's just waves of trends that come and go, and 95 00:05:51.439 --> 00:05:54.279 just like with Darlinism, when you get into looking at 96 00:05:54.279 --> 00:05:56.920 textual studies, you'll find out how much of this actually 97 00:05:56.920 --> 00:06:01.240 has absolutely no basis whatsoever. All are at some point 98 00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:03.839 who came up with an idea, came up with a theory, 99 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:08.959 somebody probably put monetary backing behind it, some banking interests 100 00:06:09.040 --> 00:06:12.879 that like that, and the idea goes the viral, I 101 00:06:12.920 --> 00:06:15.399 guess you could say, and then all the universities then 102 00:06:15.439 --> 00:06:20.600 promote the documentary hypothesis or Q or whatever, and everybody 103 00:06:20.639 --> 00:06:23.040 just oh, yeah, well, that's just true. We know that's true. 104 00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:27.519 And however, I guarantee you ninety five percent of the 105 00:06:27.519 --> 00:06:30.439 people who will talk or have been influenced by these 106 00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:33.839 theories have not actually done much textual research. They went 107 00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:37.040 to some seminary or university that was infected with this 108 00:06:37.160 --> 00:06:40.879 idea and they believe it because they were told it 109 00:06:41.600 --> 00:06:45.000 without having actually looked into the problems with it or 110 00:06:45.079 --> 00:06:47.399 evidence to the contrary. So how do we get to 111 00:06:47.439 --> 00:06:51.360 acumunism from all this modernism? Well, so modernism in the 112 00:06:51.439 --> 00:06:55.480 realm of religion and theology in church is an outworking 113 00:06:55.560 --> 00:06:59.959 I would say of this ideology, this ideology of higher critics, 114 00:07:00.439 --> 00:07:04.319 because it says, hey, you are foundational documents that you 115 00:07:04.399 --> 00:07:08.560 believe in this religion. They're not true. So it's time 116 00:07:08.600 --> 00:07:12.319 to update, buddy, get with the times. Look, we've got 117 00:07:12.399 --> 00:07:15.399 Darwinism now, and all the higher critics, I should add, 118 00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:20.160 we're very much influenced by process philosophy, process theology. I 119 00:07:20.199 --> 00:07:25.920 mentioned Schleiermacher earlier. That's processed theology and manual kant right 120 00:07:26.480 --> 00:07:29.959 and empiricism. And so you can see how as we 121 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:32.639 get into the time of the Jesus Quest, now we're 122 00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:37.279 getting you know, post Darwin. Oh, everything is subject to change, 123 00:07:37.720 --> 00:07:41.839 and so certainly documents must be subject to change because 124 00:07:41.879 --> 00:07:45.480 they don't have any divine source. They must simply have 125 00:07:45.600 --> 00:07:49.959 some human source, just some guy running them down the 126 00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:56.079 sociological interpretation of religion or whatever anthropological interpretation. So the 127 00:07:56.199 --> 00:08:00.319 texts are merely you know, human symbols and allegories. They 128 00:08:00.319 --> 00:08:05.279 don't have any real meaning. And so therefore your churches 129 00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:08.319 have to be updated. You've got to get with the times. 130 00:08:08.519 --> 00:08:11.000 And this is really what you see promoted at the 131 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:13.680 time of modernism. And I can even tell you, you know, 132 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:18.120 the different responses and theologians in the different churches who 133 00:08:18.120 --> 00:08:22.319 are promoting this. So you have and for example, in 134 00:08:22.360 --> 00:08:24.759 Presbyterianism in the US, you have this is a big 135 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:28.439 controversy I think in the nineteen twenties with what's called 136 00:08:28.439 --> 00:08:36.120 the pc USA and it is thornwell foreign, I forget things. 137 00:08:36.159 --> 00:08:39.879 That guy's name. We've talked about him before in regards 138 00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:43.919 to Riverside Church, which is the Rockefeller Church, and they 139 00:08:43.960 --> 00:08:49.399 had a pc USA minister, Charles Henry Thorn whatever the 140 00:08:49.440 --> 00:08:51.840 guy's I know that the guy's name always escapes me. 141 00:08:51.919 --> 00:08:56.720 But he was all in that's it, that's it. Yeah, 142 00:08:56.879 --> 00:09:00.840 he was all into the and Jefferson Masonry and all 143 00:09:00.879 --> 00:09:03.120 you know, this is the church that has the statue 144 00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:07.559 of Moses next to Darawan, next to Thomas Jefferson, and 145 00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:12.200 it is so you have this. I believe on the 146 00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:14.320 front of the Century nineteen oh four or five some 147 00:09:14.360 --> 00:09:17.559 sort of international congress or religions of some sort. And 148 00:09:18.360 --> 00:09:21.679 I don't think yet that the Rockefellers were intimately involved 149 00:09:21.679 --> 00:09:24.360 in this, but this was people who had a lot 150 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:28.759 of Hindu ideology, and Hinduism is very syncretistic, and they thought, 151 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:31.360 what we need to do is kind of move Western 152 00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:36.720 religions into the direction of Eastern thought. 153 00:09:36.440 --> 00:09:40.000 No, real, real quick, let me let me add something 154 00:09:40.080 --> 00:09:43.879 in there, just real fast to stay on what you 155 00:09:43.919 --> 00:09:47.600 want to talk about. But it's interesting that you bought 156 00:09:47.600 --> 00:09:52.240 a Hinduism because one of this kind of collides with 157 00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:54.799 what was going on in California at the same time, 158 00:09:55.480 --> 00:10:00.200 with the evangelical movement of the turn of the century. Yes, 159 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:04.080 I was gonna mention and with what was called, you know, 160 00:10:04.159 --> 00:10:11.759 the Gospels of Wealth or you know, new thoughts and 161 00:10:12.039 --> 00:10:22.919 forgetting all were Yeah, the Gospel, all those things you know, Yes, 162 00:10:23.080 --> 00:10:27.879 and all of those things. Interestingly in us, all of 163 00:10:27.919 --> 00:10:33.720 those ideas which still today proliferates through Christianity, most of 164 00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:37.240 those ideas actually come from theosophy. There were a lot 165 00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:40.440 of a lot of the evangelicals in the beginning were 166 00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:41.519 into theosophy. 167 00:10:42.639 --> 00:10:46.080 Yes, this congress of religions that I'm trying to think 168 00:10:46.120 --> 00:10:48.639 of that is nineteen oh four or five or maybe eight, 169 00:10:48.759 --> 00:10:52.480 late eighteen nineties, this would include a lot of people 170 00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:56.000 who would be instrumental in charismaticism. So you're absolutely right. 171 00:10:56.080 --> 00:11:00.000 And the charismatic movement has its origin around the same 172 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:04.360 time in the Azuza Street Revival in California. So you're 173 00:11:04.399 --> 00:11:08.200 absolutely right. And the reason that charismaticism with factor into 174 00:11:08.200 --> 00:11:11.639 this is that the idea in charismatic movement would be 175 00:11:12.840 --> 00:11:15.399 it's no longer about the book. It's no longer about 176 00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:17.960 what's in you know, New Testament or Old Testament. It's 177 00:11:18.039 --> 00:11:22.600 now about your direct experience. And this experience is not 178 00:11:23.720 --> 00:11:26.799 it doesn't necessarily have any consistent content. It could just 179 00:11:26.840 --> 00:11:31.679 simply be you know, your emotional hype, your reactions to 180 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:34.200 the music, you know, and with the drum and the 181 00:11:34.240 --> 00:11:37.360 bass and all that, and the band playing and you know, 182 00:11:37.480 --> 00:11:41.720 flopping around in the aisles. Anything is a legitimate potential 183 00:11:41.759 --> 00:11:47.720 experience of the quote spirit. So this existential phenomena or 184 00:11:47.720 --> 00:11:53.240 this this existential emotional experience is what takes over from 185 00:11:53.440 --> 00:11:57.080 any of the older notions, be it Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox 186 00:11:57.159 --> 00:12:01.080 or whatever of that. You know, believing what's in the text, 187 00:12:01.759 --> 00:12:04.679 going to a building and worshiping in a certain liturgical 188 00:12:04.679 --> 00:12:11.600 fashion or whatever. It's now about ecstatic experience in emotionalism, 189 00:12:11.639 --> 00:12:14.080 I would say. And so you're absolutely right. So the 190 00:12:14.159 --> 00:12:19.159 charismatic movement would be very influential in spreading a humanism 191 00:12:19.200 --> 00:12:26.360 precisely because it's all about a individual subjective experience. The 192 00:12:26.440 --> 00:12:30.759 charismaticism also has its origins in Pietistic movement, which comes 193 00:12:30.799 --> 00:12:34.639 out of the Reformation. As I mentioned earlier and with 194 00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:37.720 a Kant, for example, was raised as a Pietist. His 195 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:42.639 mother was a Pietistic German Protestant, and Pietism thought that 196 00:12:42.799 --> 00:12:46.559 it was a count of reaction to what's called Protestant scholasticism. 197 00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:50.320 So at the time of the Reformation, you had the reformers, 198 00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:53.120 and then you had the Roman Catholic response with the 199 00:12:53.120 --> 00:12:55.440 counter Reformation, and then you had as a response on 200 00:12:55.519 --> 00:12:58.799 the part of the Protestants what's called the Protestant scholasticism. 201 00:12:59.159 --> 00:13:02.879 And so this would be like Francis Turitan or Philip 202 00:13:02.879 --> 00:13:06.679 Melancthon Luther's body, and what they would do is try 203 00:13:06.720 --> 00:13:12.240 to offer a you know, extended academic scholastic response, you know, 204 00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:16.559 to their opponent, much like medieval scholastics of Thomas Aquinas 205 00:13:16.639 --> 00:13:21.679 or somebody like that. A response to that arid, dry, technical, 206 00:13:21.799 --> 00:13:27.360 abstruse perspective is Pietism. And this flourished mainly in Germany, 207 00:13:27.559 --> 00:13:30.279 and its Pietism that would come to influence the Anabaptist 208 00:13:30.360 --> 00:13:34.200 so that when you talk about Baptists Baptists actually descend 209 00:13:34.279 --> 00:13:37.919 from the Anabaptists, who are connected to the Pietists. So 210 00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:41.120 that's why we have these different movements today. They kind 211 00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:44.320 of trace back through these different ideologies. But you're absolutely right. 212 00:13:44.360 --> 00:13:49.480 Modernism is intimately connected with the early charismatic and new 213 00:13:49.519 --> 00:13:54.480 thought movements. I should add real quick as well, there 214 00:13:54.559 --> 00:13:58.679 was a controversy in American Christianity with New Light and 215 00:13:58.759 --> 00:14:01.320 Old Light Presbyterian And now this goes back to like 216 00:14:02.039 --> 00:14:05.440 John Edwards and Princeton, the founding of Princeton University and 217 00:14:05.480 --> 00:14:08.919 so forth, where you had these old stuffy Calvinists, and 218 00:14:08.919 --> 00:14:11.679 then you have these other Calvinists who at the behest 219 00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:15.000 of the preaching sinners in the hands of an angry God. 220 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:19.759 By Jonathan Edwards, people started having these charismatic experiences, like 221 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:23.000 Jonathan Edwards would preach about how bad hell was, and 222 00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:26.120 people started flopping around and crying and freaking out right. 223 00:14:26.759 --> 00:14:29.240 And so the idea was, oh, this is a you know, 224 00:14:29.720 --> 00:14:32.080 this is a revival, this is a movement of the spirit. 225 00:14:33.639 --> 00:14:36.080 Contrary to that, you had other Presbyterians who were the 226 00:14:36.120 --> 00:14:38.600 old line Presbyterians who were saying, no, no, no, you can't 227 00:14:38.600 --> 00:14:42.919 have that. This is we believe in predestination, election, Calvinism, 228 00:14:42.919 --> 00:14:48.720 et cetera. You can't have these these manifestations like this 229 00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:52.519 emotionalism and whatnot. This is not of God, it's of 230 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:56.120 the devil. And so you had this split in Presbyterianism 231 00:14:56.120 --> 00:14:59.039 at that time. And out of this, if I recall, 232 00:14:59.200 --> 00:15:04.240 out of this new Presbyterian movement would become American Revivalism. 233 00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:08.080 So American revivalism also plays into this where you have 234 00:15:08.200 --> 00:15:12.080 Methodists and Baptists and different preachers who would were part 235 00:15:12.080 --> 00:15:15.840 of the Western expansion movement, and they would there were 236 00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:18.039 circuit preachers, and you would have like a Methodist guy 237 00:15:18.039 --> 00:15:20.440 who would get on his horse and he would ride 238 00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:28.919 out to the westward moving you know, families and so 239 00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:32.240 forth who probably didn't have a minister. And so the 240 00:15:32.799 --> 00:15:34.679 minister would come maybe once a month that he would 241 00:15:34.679 --> 00:15:37.080 come and preach his healthfire sermon and that he wouldn't 242 00:15:37.159 --> 00:15:39.960 ride his horse aw to the next colony or whatever. 243 00:15:40.879 --> 00:15:44.480 And this is also influential in American revivalism. And so 244 00:15:44.600 --> 00:15:48.960 revivalism is very important for charismaticism and also very important 245 00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:52.919 for ultimately accumenism. So you're on the right track, I 246 00:15:52.919 --> 00:15:56.759 would say, John, and so all of these movements collide, 247 00:15:56.799 --> 00:16:01.159 but they're also very useful from the perspective of social engineering. 248 00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:05.279 And I would cite as perfect proof of that the 249 00:16:05.320 --> 00:16:10.240 Berkeley lecture of Aldus Suxley. In that talk, Aldus actually says, 250 00:16:10.519 --> 00:16:12.360 you know what we're going to do in the future 251 00:16:12.399 --> 00:16:15.799 when we social engineer everybody. He says, we're actually going 252 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:21.320 to borrow the techniques of the revivalist preachers and the 253 00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:25.320 fear tactics of someone like Jonathan Edwards and Methodist preachers 254 00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:28.360 and so forth John Wesley, and we're going to actually 255 00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:31.919 use those fear and terror tech techniques of the pastor 256 00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:36.399 in the government. And so what Huxley is telling you 257 00:16:36.440 --> 00:16:38.840 there is that the war on terror is pretty much 258 00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:43.759 like you know, Jesse duplanis or Benny hen banging his 259 00:16:44.679 --> 00:16:47.279 banging his fist up on the podium right and telling 260 00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:51.480 you you're going to help. So just an interesting side 261 00:16:51.519 --> 00:16:55.360 note there if you look up the Huxley lecture. But yeah, 262 00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:59.120 so modernism has all an influence from all those strands 263 00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:01.399 in the Roman Catholic communion. If this is a very 264 00:17:01.399 --> 00:17:06.160 fascinating story too, because I know that you guys would 265 00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:11.039 probably have the perspective that Rome was always controlled. I 266 00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:15.119 don't take that view, having experienced Catholicism for a good time, 267 00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:18.559 I think that Rome had a lot of power, temporal 268 00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:22.319 power especially, and wanted to maintain it. And if you 269 00:17:22.400 --> 00:17:26.000 look at, for example, the history of the Republic of Italy, 270 00:17:26.400 --> 00:17:30.119 you'll have periods where Pious the Ninth, who actually shared 271 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:33.599 a lot of the Masonic and socialist and republican ideals 272 00:17:33.640 --> 00:17:37.880 as a youth, as he when he became the pope. 273 00:17:38.279 --> 00:17:40.880 This is like eighteen nineties or so, eighteen eighties and nineties, 274 00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:45.119 the revolution turned on him and the Pope was actually 275 00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:49.160 walled up in the Vatican, scared to come out because 276 00:17:49.240 --> 00:17:55.240 the revolutionaries were going to behead them or something. This 277 00:17:55.319 --> 00:17:57.680 is what resulted in the calling of the Vatican One, 278 00:17:57.759 --> 00:18:01.160 where there was papal and fallibility. Anyway, a little bit 279 00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:03.039 prior to this, or excuse me, a little bit after this, 280 00:18:03.319 --> 00:18:06.359 was a pope by the name of Leo the thirteenth, 281 00:18:06.440 --> 00:18:10.759 and Leo the thirteenth heard about the movements of Masonry 282 00:18:10.759 --> 00:18:13.839 in different countries to not just get rid of monarchs 283 00:18:13.960 --> 00:18:16.680 and to establish republics, but also to get rid of 284 00:18:16.680 --> 00:18:18.960 the Church. And so I do think that there was 285 00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:26.240 a real historical battle between Masonry and Roman Catholicism and 286 00:18:26.359 --> 00:18:31.960 ultimately most Christian and mainline churches. And so in each 287 00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:34.599 of the different churches that the battle plays out differently. 288 00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:37.119 But in Roman Catholicism you have kind of an outright 289 00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:39.680 battle with French Revolution and so forth, and you have 290 00:18:39.799 --> 00:18:44.759 a whole string of people and cyclicals issued against Masonry. 291 00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:48.400 And I would argue that it is mainly through the 292 00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:54.359 Jesuits that the free Masonic ideals really gained sway and 293 00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:57.200 power in the Roman Catholic Church. And that is why 294 00:18:57.240 --> 00:19:03.440 the Jesuits would be instrumental in liberation theology with Marxist 295 00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:06.119 ties and so forth. And Marxism of course has ties 296 00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:12.960 ultimately to Freemasonry and Illuminism, and so the Jesuits pioneer 297 00:19:13.079 --> 00:19:17.519 not just a liberation theology, but also a kind of 298 00:19:17.559 --> 00:19:19.960 a rival to the papacy. And this is why when 299 00:19:19.960 --> 00:19:22.480 you look at the history of the relationship of the 300 00:19:22.519 --> 00:19:25.640 papacy to the heads of the Jesuit order, you will 301 00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:30.079 find a back and forth swing of power. I'm not 302 00:19:30.119 --> 00:19:31.799 saying that that makes all the Postes good and all 303 00:19:31.799 --> 00:19:33.920 the Jesuits bad. I'm just saying that this is, you know, 304 00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:36.160 what I get from church history as I've researched it. 305 00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:39.160 So there'll be times where where the Jesuits were suppressed, 306 00:19:39.160 --> 00:19:41.559 and there'll be times where they were hailed as you know, 307 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:45.039 heroes of the church, and so forth. You would have 308 00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:47.720 traditions saying that, you know, Jesuits can't be pope, and 309 00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:52.039 so forth and so on. And so what Leo the 310 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:56.960 thirteenth discovered was that there was a Masonic plot to 311 00:19:57.359 --> 00:20:00.440 no longer destroy the papacy, but actually to use it. 312 00:20:01.319 --> 00:20:04.319 And this is a famous document called the ultav Indita. Now, 313 00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:08.880 certainly people would debate the authenticity of the altave Indeta 314 00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:12.720 lodge and so forth. It's plans inasmuch as it promised, 315 00:20:13.319 --> 00:20:18.680 it proposed the idea to co opt the papacy, not 316 00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:21.279 destroy it, and to use it to bring in a 317 00:20:21.559 --> 00:20:24.400 new religion, a new world religion in fact. And you 318 00:20:24.440 --> 00:20:28.039 can actually read the altave Indiza documents on a book 319 00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:32.200 on that by John Venari, I believe, And then you 320 00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:35.400 can also read Leo wrote a famous and cyclical called 321 00:20:35.480 --> 00:20:40.240 Humanum and Janus about masonry. So I believe that that 322 00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:43.480 was a real war, and there were different factions, and 323 00:20:43.519 --> 00:20:46.440 there's always been different factions in the papacy and the 324 00:20:46.480 --> 00:20:50.839 cardinals and so forth. And I would say that by 325 00:20:50.839 --> 00:20:53.799 the twentieth century you have pretty much a complete victory 326 00:20:54.240 --> 00:21:00.519 of the New Old Order Masonic power over the papacy, 327 00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:04.000 and that came to the flowering at Vatican two. Vatican 328 00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:05.799 two is going to be very important for this because 329 00:21:05.839 --> 00:21:10.640 that is a humanism in the Roman Church having its 330 00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:13.359 complete victory. Now, so I'm moving up a little bit. 331 00:21:13.559 --> 00:21:16.279 By the time that Ntedict the fourteenth i believe, or 332 00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:19.519 fifteenth one of the two, you have a beginning of 333 00:21:19.559 --> 00:21:24.759 a crack in the papal perspective on Acumenism and the 334 00:21:24.799 --> 00:21:27.960 Western globalist so to speak. Prior to this they've been 335 00:21:28.039 --> 00:21:32.839 very critical of it. And Benedict the fifteenth, whichever guy is, 336 00:21:32.920 --> 00:21:35.839 the time of World War One in the League of Nations, 337 00:21:35.880 --> 00:21:37.599 he says, oh, you know what, maybe the League of 338 00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:41.400 Nations is a good thing. So prior to this, the 339 00:21:42.039 --> 00:21:46.400 papacy have been very critical of Americanism and American policies 340 00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:50.240 and Western democratic policies generally speaking. Now they started to 341 00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:54.240 crack on it. Then you have a belief. His successor 342 00:21:54.440 --> 00:21:58.559 was Pious the eleventh, who wrote a famous and cyclical 343 00:21:58.599 --> 00:22:02.319 called Mortalium animal and in this document he addresses the 344 00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:07.119 ecumenical movement explicitly. This is around nineteen twenty eight or so, 345 00:22:08.359 --> 00:22:11.319 and he says that this is a complete destruction of 346 00:22:11.319 --> 00:22:15.039 the Christian religion. So it's starting to make it it's 347 00:22:15.039 --> 00:22:19.160 starting to make its encroachment into Roman Catholicism. Even in 348 00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:23.440 the twenties, you had a famous document by previous pope 349 00:22:23.480 --> 00:22:27.960 I should have mentioned called Pachindi Dominici gregis of Pious 350 00:22:28.039 --> 00:22:30.799 the tenth, and this is a famous and cyclical that 351 00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:35.920 addresses modernism in total and there he calls it the 352 00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:38.880 complete destruction of the Christian religion as well. Or the 353 00:22:38.920 --> 00:22:41.559 reason Pius the tenth is relevant is that for Roman 354 00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:46.119 Catholics he's one of the last popes to be declared 355 00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:50.240 a saint. So the in cyclical of Pius the tenth 356 00:22:50.279 --> 00:22:53.039 would be considered, you know, to have a special authority 357 00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:58.079 for Roman Catholics. This is all abandoned by the time 358 00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:01.440 of John the twenty third, Right, Pius the twelve, this 359 00:23:01.480 --> 00:23:04.200 is like in the forties and fifties is generally believed 360 00:23:04.200 --> 00:23:07.720 to be kind of the last quasi traditional pope. John 361 00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:09.920 the twenty third comes along and he writes a famous 362 00:23:09.920 --> 00:23:14.720 and cyclical called pacham in Terras, which is about the 363 00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:18.359 relationship of the world and economics to the Church. And 364 00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:20.839 it's the first paper and cyclical to kind of call 365 00:23:20.920 --> 00:23:25.160 for a global government. So this is sixties. And then 366 00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:27.440 you have the calling of Vatican Two, which would be 367 00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:31.599 hugely influential for the whole the Catholic world. And there 368 00:23:31.599 --> 00:23:35.559 a Vatican Two, you have the blessing of the ecumenical movement. 369 00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:38.240 You have the complete reversal of what had been said 370 00:23:38.279 --> 00:23:42.960 even back in the twenties and thirties, complete reversal. Two. Yes, 371 00:23:43.160 --> 00:23:46.240 now it's good. Now the un is good. We have 372 00:23:46.359 --> 00:23:49.279 to follow the dictates of the UN. It's all good. 373 00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:52.799 Ecumenism is good, etcetera, etcetera. So that's kind of a 374 00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:56.839 brief my perspective on the Roman Catholic Communion in the 375 00:23:56.920 --> 00:24:00.400 last one hundred years and what happened with them. Thing 376 00:24:00.440 --> 00:24:03.279 happened in the Greek Orthodox Church. You have in the 377 00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:07.640 Orthodox world as a whole, Greek Orthodoxy surrenders, begins to 378 00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:11.559 surrender because they have an actual Masonic patriarch in Greece 379 00:24:12.839 --> 00:24:18.839 by the name of Malicius. Milicius Metaxas Metaxakis, excuse me. 380 00:24:19.519 --> 00:24:23.440 It was the patriarch of Constantinople, a Greek guy from 381 00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:26.880 nineteen twenty one to twenty three, and he was openly 382 00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:30.160 a member of a Mosonic lodge. He was a member 383 00:24:30.200 --> 00:24:35.279 of the Harmonia Lodge in the Grand Lodge of Greece, 384 00:24:35.440 --> 00:24:38.759 and the Grand Lodge of Greece's own website cites him 385 00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:41.279 as a member. So this is not a conspiracy theory. 386 00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:44.119 Now why is this relevant. Well, one thing that he 387 00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:48.680 did was begin this process that would become a kind 388 00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:52.039 of a controversy in the Orthodox world of changing the calendar. 389 00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:54.599 Now that might not sound like a big deal, but 390 00:24:55.640 --> 00:24:59.400 for a person who has a Catholic or an Orthodox perspective, 391 00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:02.400 you know, the day that you celebrate Easter and stuff 392 00:25:02.440 --> 00:25:05.640 like that is important to you. So the idea of 393 00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:10.279 a complete change in these things is could be very upsetting, 394 00:25:10.519 --> 00:25:13.759 especially to you know, kind of the more simple believers 395 00:25:13.960 --> 00:25:16.359 of you know, your mom and your pop types who 396 00:25:16.359 --> 00:25:18.640 don't really care about theology, but they're used to you know, oh, 397 00:25:18.680 --> 00:25:20.519 we have Easter this way. It's always been that way 398 00:25:20.559 --> 00:25:21.920 when I was a kid. You know, this is how 399 00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:22.240 it is. 400 00:25:23.359 --> 00:25:26.839 And one of the things, and you're real quick when something. 401 00:25:30.680 --> 00:25:30.799 Well. 402 00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:33.039 And I'm not saying to see you, I'm saying this 403 00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:35.799 to the audience. You know, we're not in any way 404 00:25:35.839 --> 00:25:39.559 critiquing people's belief systems or what it is that they 405 00:25:39.599 --> 00:25:43.720 hold beer to them in this particular time period. Now, 406 00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:47.279 this is kind of going over a history of it 407 00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:52.559 and then looking at change in the belief systems as 408 00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:57.519 the mechanism for a feeling change in other areas of life. 409 00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:01.640 And so if you can work about change in the religion, 410 00:26:02.039 --> 00:26:04.680 you can bring about change in culture, you could bring 411 00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:11.279 about change economically. It's changed all over the entire spectrum 412 00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:14.960 at this particular time in history, in the early part 413 00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:18.720 of the twentieth century. The twentieth century is the century 414 00:26:18.759 --> 00:26:24.640 of change, absolutely so. And so that's what you're getting here, 415 00:26:24.799 --> 00:26:28.359 is you're seeing a fundamental change. It's an interesting thing too, 416 00:26:28.440 --> 00:26:33.680 because as you see these fundamental changes in people belief systems, 417 00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:38.200 it is a very subtle change in the belief systems, 418 00:26:38.720 --> 00:26:42.960 and it's changes where people are not even being made 419 00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:46.759 aware of that. There's changes going on where it's where 420 00:26:46.799 --> 00:26:49.640 your pastor is saying something one day and then the 421 00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:53.359 next day he's saying Oh yes, I think a global 422 00:26:53.359 --> 00:26:55.440 government is a good thing, and it's kind of like 423 00:26:55.480 --> 00:26:58.319 something that just passes like a fart in church. 424 00:26:59.680 --> 00:27:04.039 Yeah now, and so so that's I just wanted to 425 00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:08.599 interject that this study here, you know about you know 426 00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:10.519 what Chris and I have been talking about California, and 427 00:27:10.519 --> 00:27:13.319 then this particular niche of it with religion is to 428 00:27:13.400 --> 00:27:17.079 show that modernism of itself is fostering change in the 429 00:27:17.119 --> 00:27:18.519 twentieth century. 430 00:27:18.599 --> 00:27:23.279 Absolutely, and it's intimately tied into Darwinism. That's not a 431 00:27:23.319 --> 00:27:28.119 conspiracy theory. That is, if you look at modernists, thinkers, 432 00:27:28.119 --> 00:27:31.400 and writers in any of these different fields, whether it's 433 00:27:32.440 --> 00:27:38.279 religion or academia, textual studies, education. Just finished a book 434 00:27:38.359 --> 00:27:41.720 on the history of American education, and it's full of 435 00:27:41.799 --> 00:27:45.480 quotes of all the sort of founding fathers, so to speak, 436 00:27:45.559 --> 00:27:48.759 of American public education, and they all have the exact 437 00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:53.799 same Darwinian view of process and change. Nothing is true, 438 00:27:54.319 --> 00:27:59.039 nothing remains because everything is subject to the ultimate principles 439 00:27:59.079 --> 00:28:02.119 of Darwin and they all say that like explicitly. And 440 00:28:02.200 --> 00:28:05.759 so this spills into religion as well. And the reason 441 00:28:05.799 --> 00:28:07.799 I mentioned the calendar is not to bring up some 442 00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:13.640 boring point, but The reason that the Orthodox started changing 443 00:28:13.640 --> 00:28:16.359 their calendar was because they wanted to be in line 444 00:28:16.519 --> 00:28:19.720 with the pope, which historically, if you don't know that, 445 00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:23.680 the Eastern Orthodox Church disagrees with the idea of people 446 00:28:23.720 --> 00:28:26.960 and fallibility, so they're two different churches. But there was 447 00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:29.599 this movement called Acumenism, which said, hey, why don't we 448 00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:32.440 just get together, Let's put aside the differences nothing. And 449 00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:34.640 it might think, well, well, who cares about a calendar, Well, 450 00:28:35.119 --> 00:28:37.960 the calendar itself may not be an issue of salvation, 451 00:28:38.119 --> 00:28:41.079 but that's not the point. The point is that the 452 00:28:41.720 --> 00:28:46.079 ideology of change was such that it was moving everything 453 00:28:46.119 --> 00:28:51.720 into a convergence, not based on truth or falsity, but 454 00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:55.640 on social engineering. And that's really what it's about. Because 455 00:28:55.680 --> 00:28:57.880 the patriarchs that we want to be back with Rome, 456 00:28:58.799 --> 00:29:01.400 forget the theology. Let's just do whatever it takes to 457 00:29:01.720 --> 00:29:05.680 merge everyone. And this is what happened at Vatican two 458 00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:08.319 in the Roman Catholic Church, where they did the exact 459 00:29:08.519 --> 00:29:10.680 same thing. They said, let's all adopt a new calendar, 460 00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:15.759 let's forget the differences, let's all come together, which sounds 461 00:29:15.799 --> 00:29:18.359 all nice and warm and fuzzy, but that's not what 462 00:29:18.400 --> 00:29:20.839 it's about it's not about being nice and wrmon fuzzy. 463 00:29:21.400 --> 00:29:25.440 This is all at the behest of monetary elites who 464 00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:28.279 are putting the funding behind all of this. Right, So, 465 00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:31.759 you have the World Council of Churches established by the 466 00:29:31.839 --> 00:29:36.319 Rockefellers National Council Churches in the US, and this is 467 00:29:36.400 --> 00:29:40.039 these groups all receive money from the same sources, all 468 00:29:40.039 --> 00:29:44.359 the usual suspects carnegiese, Rockefellers, Morgan, et cetera, et cetera. 469 00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:47.440 And this is really their means by which they're going 470 00:29:47.480 --> 00:29:52.319 to steer the religious sector of society. And it's all 471 00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:55.599 one hundred percent documented. It's in the Rockefeller's biography by 472 00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:59.400 Collier and Horowitz, which is all authorized. David Rockefeller talks 473 00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:02.839 about it openly. And it's not just the Rock Dollers. 474 00:30:02.839 --> 00:30:04.880 And there's a lot of interests involved in this, the 475 00:30:04.880 --> 00:30:07.240 Pentagon on the government, you know, they're interested in having 476 00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:13.200 their agents in place in different churches. But so yeah, 477 00:30:13.240 --> 00:30:15.680 so all of the strands that we've mentioned, I think 478 00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:21.000 it all come together to produce the idea of a 479 00:30:21.160 --> 00:30:25.839 super religion, a super megalithic New World religion. And that's 480 00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:29.039 one hunder true. And you have plenty of writers in 481 00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:32.039 every different tradition talking about it and warning about it. 482 00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:34.079 So you know, I could give you a list of 483 00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:37.880 twenty books on that as well. An interesting topic too 484 00:30:38.079 --> 00:30:41.920 that proves this is again one of the usual suspects. 485 00:30:41.960 --> 00:30:44.200 Altu Suxley wrote a whole book on this and it's 486 00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:48.599 called the Perennial Philosophy. So you could actually class obviously 487 00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:51.920 kind of in the tradition of traditionalism as it's called, 488 00:30:52.039 --> 00:30:55.000 or perennialism, and this would be people like a rennagan On, 489 00:30:55.680 --> 00:31:01.200 Alexander Dugan, Rama, Kumar Slami and so forth. And this 490 00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:03.720 is the idea of blending all the religions together. And 491 00:31:03.799 --> 00:31:06.359 so that's what Huxley says in the book print a Philosophy, 492 00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:09.680 says the new world religion will be all religions blended together, 493 00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:12.640 and that's where we need to go. And he also 494 00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:15.240 explicitly says that what has to be gotten rid of 495 00:31:15.400 --> 00:31:18.119 is the idea of distinctions of differences. That you have 496 00:31:18.279 --> 00:31:21.799 your tradition that you that you can carry on, and 497 00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:23.680 all that's going to be done away with, he says, 498 00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:29.440 so that all individuals can meld into the absolute. And 499 00:31:29.480 --> 00:31:32.000 this is what we see the UN promoting. That's why 500 00:31:32.039 --> 00:31:36.559 he was, you know, foundational in Unesco and his family. 501 00:31:37.960 --> 00:31:40.240 This is why the Rockefellers are promoting, I mean, excuse 502 00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:43.000 of the rum Catholic Church begins promoting the UN after 503 00:31:43.119 --> 00:31:48.200 formerly saying it was evil. Right, So so there you go. 504 00:31:48.279 --> 00:31:51.440 I mean that I apologize for being so long winded there. 505 00:31:51.240 --> 00:31:55.039 But I actually I wanted to bring some whip. I 506 00:31:55.039 --> 00:31:57.480 wanted you to talk about. I'm sure you will. Are 507 00:31:57.480 --> 00:32:01.200 you familiar with Reverend Austin who was one of the 508 00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:03.680 first Rockefeller funded preachers. 509 00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:07.240 That's who I met, is that he was the Riverside 510 00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:09.599 Church guy. That's what I meant earlier I couldn't think 511 00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:09.960 of the name. 512 00:32:11.079 --> 00:32:14.559 Yeah, and he's the one who who wrote a he 513 00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:18.680 wrote a sermon that came out and said that we 514 00:32:18.799 --> 00:32:21.799 got to get rid of all of the old, old 515 00:32:21.839 --> 00:32:26.480 ways and old ideas. And then Rock John b. Rockfeller said, well, yeah, 516 00:32:26.519 --> 00:32:29.079 that sounds good. We need to make him ahead of 517 00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:35.160 the Riverside Church and you know, promote that idea. And 518 00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:39.960 then the Rockefeller's funded the printing of that sermon and 519 00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:43.599 had it sent out to like every church in the country. 520 00:32:44.279 --> 00:32:47.160 Yeah exactly, And. 521 00:32:49.720 --> 00:32:53.319 Yeah, that's how it's done. Another and then so so 522 00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:55.920 another thing that's fun. You know, let me read a 523 00:32:55.920 --> 00:32:58.599 little I just wanted to read a little line out 524 00:32:58.599 --> 00:33:05.000 of this book. And if anybody is actually interested in 525 00:33:05.039 --> 00:33:08.960 what we're talking about here, there's a good book that 526 00:33:09.079 --> 00:33:11.160 kind of sums a lot of things up having to 527 00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:14.480 do with a particular niche of this called the Prosperity Gospel. 528 00:33:14.519 --> 00:33:22.359 And it's called Blessed by the author Kate Bohler, And 529 00:33:22.359 --> 00:33:27.400 and it's kind of just a it's a layman summary 530 00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:37.480 of this big, huge subjects here. But Professor Bowley here 531 00:33:37.599 --> 00:33:43.440 she writes, uh, she's she's talking about the new thoughts 532 00:33:43.559 --> 00:33:47.720 mind power, and this is what we're going to get 533 00:33:47.720 --> 00:33:53.359 into here in a minute. The historian of metaphysics, Catherine 534 00:33:53.359 --> 00:33:59.000 Albany's christened it mental magic for its use of vision, imagination, affirmation, 535 00:33:59.200 --> 00:34:04.000 affirmative press, and in interiority that focused on self mastery. 536 00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:06.880 With Albany is called mental magic. We will call mind 537 00:34:06.880 --> 00:34:13.320 power because it's discourse of control n FCS and FC 538 00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:20.480 calls on the role of thought and speech. Victorian America 539 00:34:20.639 --> 00:34:24.119 was a hotbed of mind power, bursting the trans and 540 00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:30.639 demolism spiritualism Freemasonry, Christian science, and a particular interest here 541 00:34:30.719 --> 00:34:35.400 an option of Christian science called new thought. Out of 542 00:34:35.440 --> 00:34:40.679 this miasma came the thinkers who nurtured a particular species 543 00:34:40.719 --> 00:34:44.199 of mind power, planting the seeds of the present day 544 00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:49.840 prosperity gospel. Then we moved forward into the nineteen fifties 545 00:34:51.119 --> 00:34:53.800 and one beginning of the World Council of Churches and 546 00:34:53.960 --> 00:35:00.559 a particular pastor coming out of New York where the 547 00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:05.519 Rockfellers promote things, and that would be mister Roman Vincent Peel. 548 00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:08.239 And there's a big history on the back side of 549 00:35:08.320 --> 00:35:12.880 what mind power and what became known as positive thinking. 550 00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:17.440 Call the Norman Vincent Peel's book The Power of Positive Thinking. 551 00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:23.559 There's a myriad of of shuckers and hivers and hucksters 552 00:35:23.599 --> 00:35:25.440 and you know. 553 00:35:26.519 --> 00:35:31.599 Yes, like Schueler would kind of be his successor. 554 00:35:32.840 --> 00:35:35.559 Right, But I'm saying like before that, even before that, 555 00:35:35.639 --> 00:35:37.920 in the nineteen hundreds and twenties and thirties, there were 556 00:35:37.960 --> 00:35:40.920 all these like the guys you see jumping around on 557 00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:45.039 TV in the eighties, nineties and today, there were guys 558 00:35:45.079 --> 00:35:50.119 like that back in the twenties pushing, pushing mind power 559 00:35:50.159 --> 00:35:53.119 and word of faith. And things like that, and people 560 00:35:53.159 --> 00:35:56.519 don't even realize that a lot of the same things 561 00:35:56.519 --> 00:36:00.559 they believe today in Christianity and prosperity God will have 562 00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:05.320 absolutely nothing to do with anything with Christianity. It literally 563 00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:09.760 was crafted in the early nineteen hundreds and it comes 564 00:36:09.800 --> 00:36:13.880 along into this new age idea that people still get 565 00:36:13.960 --> 00:36:16.159 pushed on today with self help books, that you can 566 00:36:16.559 --> 00:36:20.880 speak your reality into existence, the manifest your reality. And 567 00:36:20.920 --> 00:36:24.199 that was all part of Christianity and prosperity gospel, where 568 00:36:25.039 --> 00:36:28.119 you know, you don't just pray for stuff, you speak, 569 00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:37.559 you command God's power to make things happen. And then 570 00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:41.719 the Rockefellers and the industrialists in general, including Carbigie and 571 00:36:41.719 --> 00:36:49.880 all that, they funded the idea of the a prosperity 572 00:36:49.920 --> 00:36:53.679 gospel in a sort of a different way where it 573 00:36:53.840 --> 00:36:56.440 was all had to do with hard work and dedication, 574 00:36:56.679 --> 00:37:01.800 the dedication to your to working hard and being a 575 00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:06.039 hard working American because that's what they wanted their workers 576 00:37:06.079 --> 00:37:11.679 to be in their factories. Yeah, and so they paid 577 00:37:11.679 --> 00:37:18.360 their creatures to equate godliness and righteousness with hard work, 578 00:37:18.719 --> 00:37:22.599 and so that became a staple of Americana as time 579 00:37:22.679 --> 00:37:26.639 went on. Even though once again there has absolutely nothing 580 00:37:26.679 --> 00:37:30.519 to do with the origins of Christianity whatsoever, and it 581 00:37:30.639 --> 00:37:34.679 was tagged onto that and has stuck with us ever since. 582 00:37:35.519 --> 00:37:39.880 Yes, Axe Baber's book on this. Although I would not 583 00:37:40.159 --> 00:37:44.679 obviously consider myself any kind of old line German socialist, 584 00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:50.199 Max Baber's book on the Protestant work ethic is accurate 585 00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:54.679 and he's right to connect it to Puritanism. Interesting you 586 00:37:54.719 --> 00:37:57.440 mentioned that about the hard work and all that and 587 00:37:57.519 --> 00:38:01.840 being a good slave to the global capitalists, because that 588 00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:06.760 is also influenced by a Puritanical Calvinist tradition, again going 589 00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:09.280 back to the New Light and old Light Presbyterians and 590 00:38:09.320 --> 00:38:15.599 American Revivalism. And so I remember when I was in 591 00:38:15.719 --> 00:38:17.800 high school, I used to work at a paint store 592 00:38:18.400 --> 00:38:20.840 and this weird guy that lived in town. I think 593 00:38:20.840 --> 00:38:23.679 it was a contractor, I don't know. He saw me 594 00:38:23.719 --> 00:38:25.519 reading philosophy one day when I was I don't know, 595 00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:30.119 nineteen twenty, he started bringing me books, and believe it 596 00:38:30.199 --> 00:38:34.199 or not, for what For a reason, this guy would 597 00:38:34.199 --> 00:38:38.199 bring me books out of the school of thought of 598 00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:40.400 what you're talking about, right, So I remember one day 599 00:38:40.400 --> 00:38:43.000 he's like, you read that arm and Man's Pale. I 600 00:38:43.079 --> 00:38:45.559 was like, Nah, I don't really care about that. I'm 601 00:38:45.559 --> 00:38:47.320 gonna bring you a book. So he started to bring 602 00:38:47.320 --> 00:38:49.239 me that. He brought me a book back guy named 603 00:38:49.320 --> 00:38:52.440 Vernon Howard, and he Vernon Howard is one of these guys, 604 00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:56.679 like you're talking about the New Thought self awareness movement. 605 00:38:57.280 --> 00:38:59.480 A lot of this would of course be found a 606 00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:04.199 fundamental for the coming New Age movement. And so he 607 00:39:04.280 --> 00:39:07.719 brought me like Krishna Murty, who, by the way, I 608 00:39:07.719 --> 00:39:09.320 was trying to think of who it was that was 609 00:39:10.199 --> 00:39:13.400 formative in the early beginnings of a humanism, and it 610 00:39:13.519 --> 00:39:15.559 was Jidu Krishna Murty. 611 00:39:15.960 --> 00:39:21.159 He's one of the yeah, friend California. 612 00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:24.880 So this yeah, so this weird contractor would just like 613 00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:27.159 every month he could come up and bring me some 614 00:39:27.239 --> 00:39:30.119 book from like you know, self help, weird stuff from 615 00:39:30.159 --> 00:39:33.119 like nineteen thirty or forty. And this is where you 616 00:39:33.159 --> 00:39:37.639 get into Gerdjieff, right, and the fourth way Gerdjieff would 617 00:39:37.639 --> 00:39:40.639 be very influential for a lot of these guys that 618 00:39:40.679 --> 00:39:44.960 you're talking about. But the Gurgia stuff is weird because 619 00:39:44.960 --> 00:39:47.519 it also kind of has a lot of occult influences 620 00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:52.920 transnow meditation type stuff. But really what gerdev was doing 621 00:39:53.039 --> 00:39:54.840 was just trying to create you know, I think his 622 00:39:54.920 --> 00:39:58.440 own religion blending a bunch of stuff. You know, I've 623 00:39:58.440 --> 00:40:00.159 got a new way to do it. You know, I'm 624 00:40:00.159 --> 00:40:04.280 a mix of a Roman Catholic monastic and a Yogi 625 00:40:04.360 --> 00:40:07.800 and a fuck here, and it's all blended into you know, 626 00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:11.360 a new new package for you. And that's also what 627 00:40:11.599 --> 00:40:13.760 you know, the ecumenical movement is because it doesn't have 628 00:40:13.800 --> 00:40:18.800 any really real substance. It's all about do your thing, 629 00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:22.760 but be sure that your thing you're doing is in 630 00:40:22.840 --> 00:40:27.840 accord with what the Globo state is okay with? Right, 631 00:40:28.239 --> 00:40:31.360 So you can have your little you know, ceremony or whatever, 632 00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:34.559 just so long as you're going along with you know, 633 00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:39.440 the main strategies of the system. 634 00:40:39.519 --> 00:40:43.199 Well, you're allowed to have fundamentals in your religion as 635 00:40:43.239 --> 00:40:47.800 long as your fundamentals are accept everybody, even if they 636 00:40:47.800 --> 00:40:49.920 don't believe in the same thing you do. So if 637 00:40:49.920 --> 00:40:52.239 you're one of your fundamentals is you know, I don't 638 00:40:52.239 --> 00:40:56.280 accept your religion or your belief system, then that part 639 00:40:56.320 --> 00:40:58.119 of your religion needs to go. 640 00:40:58.400 --> 00:41:05.000 Yeah. Yeah, it has to be relt visit exactly. Yeah. 641 00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:08.559 It's interesting how the the prosperity gospel to name it 642 00:41:08.599 --> 00:41:12.079 and claim it and all that. Uh. If you think 643 00:41:12.119 --> 00:41:15.440 about freemasonry, a lot of from what I understand, a 644 00:41:15.440 --> 00:41:19.320 lot of people will get into freemasonry as a way 645 00:41:19.360 --> 00:41:23.480 to uh make you know, business connections and to get 646 00:41:24.440 --> 00:41:30.400 sort of a foothold in business and you know, and 647 00:41:30.760 --> 00:41:35.920 get some advantage there. And it it's interesting that uh 648 00:41:36.280 --> 00:41:40.159 so much of so called it's called Christianity. It's not 649 00:41:40.239 --> 00:41:43.519 it's not Christianity, but it's it focuses in on that. 650 00:41:43.599 --> 00:41:48.760 It's it's about I know I've heard this before different people. 651 00:41:48.840 --> 00:41:50.719 You know, you talk and you get you get the 652 00:41:50.760 --> 00:41:54.400 gist of what's going ox. I never really when I 653 00:41:54.519 --> 00:41:56.519 used to go to church. I didn't attend any of 654 00:41:56.559 --> 00:41:59.320 these big churches or mega churches or anything like that. 655 00:42:00.039 --> 00:42:03.039 But talking to people that did, you always get the 656 00:42:03.079 --> 00:42:10.360 impression that, yeah, they used the whole you know, going 657 00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:13.960 to church as a way to network, a way to 658 00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:19.400 get you know, dredge up business and to connect with people. 659 00:42:19.519 --> 00:42:25.320 And I think in a lot of ways what that 660 00:42:25.480 --> 00:42:30.239 does too, it makes uh it you know, to take Christianity, 661 00:42:30.280 --> 00:42:32.559 turn it into something else and turn to the focus, 662 00:42:33.159 --> 00:42:37.559 uh make it in line with you know, our our 663 00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:42.800 modern consumerist, materialist culture that it gave it like its 664 00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:47.480 own sort of different uh, relevancy in in the in 665 00:42:47.960 --> 00:42:50.559 the system, you know, where it wouldn't have had that 666 00:42:51.280 --> 00:42:54.119 if it was it wasn't for that. Yeah, so that 667 00:42:54.320 --> 00:42:57.280 you know, everything in our culture and society is is 668 00:42:57.679 --> 00:43:00.000 you know, centered around money and the entertainment of mind 669 00:43:00.440 --> 00:43:05.559 and material goods, and uh, yeah, the churches have to 670 00:43:06.039 --> 00:43:09.679 align with that to one degree or another. But yeah, 671 00:43:09.719 --> 00:43:16.840 it's also interesting too how that is part of like witchcraft, 672 00:43:17.119 --> 00:43:19.280 you know, and and that sort of thing is like 673 00:43:19.360 --> 00:43:22.800 you it's just the idea that you're gonna appeal to 674 00:43:22.880 --> 00:43:26.119 the spirit realm to get the spirits to do you 675 00:43:26.519 --> 00:43:29.880 favors and stuff, you know, like like the way they 676 00:43:30.320 --> 00:43:32.639 throw curses on people and they do stuff but whatever, 677 00:43:33.159 --> 00:43:35.679 something that would get them an advantage over other people. 678 00:43:36.480 --> 00:43:38.519 Well here that's kind of like the idea behind it. 679 00:43:39.159 --> 00:43:40.280 Here's an interesting thing. 680 00:43:40.559 --> 00:43:40.679 Uh. 681 00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:46.440 One of the aspects that's central of to the to 682 00:43:46.519 --> 00:43:49.639 the ecumenical idea is that you no longer try to 683 00:43:49.679 --> 00:43:54.320 convert anyone to your to your philosophy. And Krishna Murdy, 684 00:43:54.360 --> 00:43:58.599 as we mentioned earlier, I wrote this essay called Three 685 00:43:58.719 --> 00:44:03.480 Pious Egos and it's the idea of how egotistical it 686 00:44:03.639 --> 00:44:07.519 is to dare to convert someone to your ideology. What 687 00:44:07.599 --> 00:44:13.519 everyone seems to miss in terms of the obvious presuppositional 688 00:44:13.719 --> 00:44:19.119 contradiction here is that the ecumenist is converting everyone to 689 00:44:19.280 --> 00:44:24.800 his non conversion philosophy. So he's everybody, he's every bit 690 00:44:24.920 --> 00:44:30.000 the egotistical dogmatist by saying that you're wrong for trying 691 00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:33.599 to convert people. So as I read, you know, Krishna Murdy, 692 00:44:33.920 --> 00:44:36.480 I'm looking at him talking about how egotistical are for 693 00:44:36.559 --> 00:44:40.360 people wanting to convert them. This is a whole apologetic 694 00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:42.920 treatise trying to convert me to his opinion. 695 00:44:44.039 --> 00:44:46.559 Yeah, you need to convert people into an organization that 696 00:44:46.599 --> 00:44:48.000 doesn't go out and try to convert you. 697 00:44:49.199 --> 00:44:54.760 And that's literally And so you know this is George 698 00:44:54.760 --> 00:44:58.800 Weigel is one of these big time mainline Catholic so 699 00:44:58.880 --> 00:45:02.920 called writers. He's written big fat books on John Paul's 700 00:45:02.920 --> 00:45:05.440 second stuff, and you know, he's always tuting this stuff. 701 00:45:06.440 --> 00:45:10.280 And you know, he wrote an opinion piece about actually 702 00:45:10.280 --> 00:45:16.480 connecting Catholicism and Pentecostalism and charismaticism as the means by 703 00:45:16.519 --> 00:45:21.079 which the ecumenical movement could really spread because to reach 704 00:45:21.199 --> 00:45:24.440 more and more of a mass audience, you're not going 705 00:45:24.480 --> 00:45:29.400 to do it through putting out tracks and lectures and sermons. 706 00:45:29.760 --> 00:45:33.000 It's going to happen through people having subjectives, so called 707 00:45:33.039 --> 00:45:36.960 experiences that they think are divine and so charismaticism is 708 00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:40.159 a great vehicle for that, right, converting people over to 709 00:45:40.199 --> 00:45:47.639 this ecumenical sledge of believe nothing, I guess relativism. What 710 00:45:47.719 --> 00:45:50.880 the irony there, of course, is that, as we said, 711 00:45:51.039 --> 00:45:56.519 these are actual engineered movements. They're one run by people 712 00:45:56.519 --> 00:46:00.559 who a lot of these new thought type people will 713 00:46:00.599 --> 00:46:02.400 gurge you of these kinds of people. You know, these 714 00:46:02.480 --> 00:46:05.440 are people running in the circles of you know, the 715 00:46:05.480 --> 00:46:10.119 monetary elite, who you know, are all about social engineering. 716 00:46:10.719 --> 00:46:14.079 So what I'm saying is that the promises of ecumenism 717 00:46:14.440 --> 00:46:17.400 are hollow. They don't lead to you know, all this 718 00:46:17.599 --> 00:46:25.559 tolerance and whatever glowing hippie utopian ideals they're they're promoting. Uh, 719 00:46:25.679 --> 00:46:29.440 it's all part of the one world global state. And 720 00:46:30.079 --> 00:46:32.840 as I said again, you can look at Huxley's Perennial 721 00:46:32.880 --> 00:46:36.079 Philosophy book to see that. Yeah, and then they say, 722 00:46:36.519 --> 00:46:39.159 these people will even say you know, in the coming future, 723 00:46:40.159 --> 00:46:42.719 we're going to have to deal with the dissenters. You know, 724 00:46:42.719 --> 00:46:45.840 they're going to have to be dealt with. Right, So 725 00:46:46.400 --> 00:46:47.800 much for tolerance, right. 726 00:46:48.440 --> 00:46:51.000 Yeah, doesn't sound very tolerant. 727 00:46:52.360 --> 00:46:59.840 Well, one of the biggest pushers of the economical like 728 00:47:00.119 --> 00:47:03.800 it a is Rick Warren. 729 00:47:04.159 --> 00:47:06.360 Oh yeah, Now that's got to be some kind of 730 00:47:06.400 --> 00:47:07.039 CI think. 731 00:47:07.440 --> 00:47:10.639 I think, yeah, oh yeah. And so we're you know, 732 00:47:11.320 --> 00:47:15.440 now here's where, Here's where. And I want to touch 733 00:47:15.519 --> 00:47:19.719 us touch on this on a later on a later episode. 734 00:47:19.800 --> 00:47:23.760 And Jay, you're welcome to join us again if when 735 00:47:23.800 --> 00:47:32.559 we start getting into southern California, Jesus people and evangelicism, 736 00:47:32.719 --> 00:47:34.679 because we're going to talk about that in the future. 737 00:47:35.400 --> 00:47:39.760 But see right here in southern California, and all of 738 00:47:39.800 --> 00:47:43.800 these churches are within a couple of miles of each other. 739 00:47:43.960 --> 00:47:51.119 Strangely enough, is TBN Calbred Chapel, Megachurch, Mothership, a vineyard, 740 00:47:52.199 --> 00:47:59.039 and saddleback Church where we're uh pastors out to the 741 00:47:59.159 --> 00:48:00.840 twenty thousand people at once. 742 00:48:02.360 --> 00:48:06.280 So I note one of the the Calvary Chapel which 743 00:48:06.280 --> 00:48:09.119 it originates to California. DA mc allen points out it 744 00:48:09.119 --> 00:48:11.599 as one of the Laurel Canyon, guys who started the 745 00:48:11.639 --> 00:48:13.559 Calfrey Chapels. 746 00:48:17.199 --> 00:48:21.599 Yeah, it's it's uh, well there there's I know a 747 00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:23.480 lot about that, and I'm kind of saving it for 748 00:48:24.039 --> 00:48:26.159 a particular absence. I'm not even going to talk about 749 00:48:26.199 --> 00:48:27.800 that yet, okay. 750 00:48:27.960 --> 00:48:28.039 But. 751 00:48:31.480 --> 00:48:34.679 So all all of those particular churches are kind of 752 00:48:35.199 --> 00:48:37.880 are kind of offsheets of Calvary Chapel. They kind of 753 00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:44.920 started that all except for TVN. But but Rick Warren 754 00:48:46.559 --> 00:48:50.199 of course hosted a debate between John McCain and Barack 755 00:48:50.199 --> 00:48:55.880 Obama at Saddleback Church in Airline, and then he went 756 00:48:55.920 --> 00:49:00.559 on to give the inaugural speech for Obama, and then 757 00:49:00.920 --> 00:49:04.000 he goes to DeVos, hangs out at the World Economic 758 00:49:04.119 --> 00:49:07.320 Form and then you can see video clips of him, 759 00:49:07.599 --> 00:49:10.880 you know, saying that he's buddies with the Islamic leaders 760 00:49:10.960 --> 00:49:16.280 and that they're signing u N agreements for covenants between 761 00:49:16.360 --> 00:49:24.960 the faiths and things like this, and and so what 762 00:49:25.039 --> 00:49:27.599 I've talked about with christ before or with you know, 763 00:49:27.719 --> 00:49:30.760 just people who I know who are church goers. I 764 00:49:30.840 --> 00:49:36.320 am not myself a churchgoer, but most people who go 765 00:49:36.360 --> 00:49:38.960 to church, they don't even go to church because they're 766 00:49:39.039 --> 00:49:43.880 into reading texts or understanding the Bible. They kind of 767 00:49:43.880 --> 00:49:48.320 want to go to church because it feels good, you know. 768 00:49:48.480 --> 00:49:52.519 And they're not bad people by any stretch of the world. 769 00:49:52.519 --> 00:49:56.519 They're not bad. It's just they do something that's kind 770 00:49:56.559 --> 00:49:58.559 of been passed down as a tradition, and it's kind 771 00:49:58.599 --> 00:50:01.960 of a blind tradition. So they're not really into learning 772 00:50:02.000 --> 00:50:05.000 about the Bible, or if they are into learning about 773 00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:07.039 the Bible, they only go as far as what their 774 00:50:07.039 --> 00:50:10.760 preacher tells them. So somebody like Rick Warren, who wrote 775 00:50:10.840 --> 00:50:15.440 the most popular Christian book of all time, The Purpose 776 00:50:15.559 --> 00:50:19.000 Driven Life, I mean the title of The Purpose Driven Life, 777 00:50:19.119 --> 00:50:22.280 it should be on the self help aisle in Barnes 778 00:50:22.320 --> 00:50:29.199 and Nobles. Right, Yes, that has nothing to do with 779 00:50:29.360 --> 00:50:31.000 I mean even in the title, has nothing to do 780 00:50:31.039 --> 00:50:34.280 with Christianity whatsoever. And then half the time, most of 781 00:50:34.320 --> 00:50:37.039 these guys, including warn himself, they don't even have a 782 00:50:37.079 --> 00:50:39.559 Bible on their pulpit when they're giving their sercums. 783 00:50:42.239 --> 00:50:48.400 The exact same way. Yeah, yeah, it's very very bizarre 784 00:50:48.519 --> 00:50:53.360 the history of the megachurch, and I believe Saddleback has 785 00:50:54.480 --> 00:50:57.360 kind of gone talk connections as well. For my research, 786 00:50:58.559 --> 00:51:00.880 you can look at Paul Crouch he's been in trouble 787 00:51:00.920 --> 00:51:05.119 with the FBI for money laundering. Not that I'm saying 788 00:51:05.119 --> 00:51:08.280 that the government's good. I'm just saying that rival mafia 789 00:51:08.360 --> 00:51:14.280 is right. Yeah, these people are quite obviously dubious, but 790 00:51:16.800 --> 00:51:19.760 I think they experiment with different things too. So you 791 00:51:19.840 --> 00:51:23.800 had in the last fifteen ten fifteen years this movement 792 00:51:23.880 --> 00:51:27.280 called the Emergent Church. And this is weird because it's 793 00:51:27.320 --> 00:51:33.800 an attempt to blend the denominational slash megachurch with some 794 00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:40.920 cafeteria style stuff from maybe Orthodox liturgy or Catholic liturgy. 795 00:51:41.000 --> 00:51:43.320 So you might have a calendar and you might the 796 00:51:43.360 --> 00:51:46.599 guy might decide to wear a robe or something like that, 797 00:51:47.199 --> 00:51:51.079 but you're all going to meet in an auditorium and 798 00:51:51.480 --> 00:51:54.960 wear jeans, and we're right. So it's a weird mix 799 00:51:55.000 --> 00:51:57.280 of stuff. And then you start watching the heads of 800 00:51:57.320 --> 00:52:00.000 this movement and they start saying, oh, yeah, we actually 801 00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:01.960 disagree with a lot of what's in the Bible. We 802 00:52:01.960 --> 00:52:02.800 don't really believe that. 803 00:52:04.199 --> 00:52:04.519 Uh. 804 00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:08.599 And if you trace back the Emergent movement, I spent 805 00:52:08.800 --> 00:52:11.800 about a day one day researching this and look to me, 806 00:52:11.920 --> 00:52:15.119 like this is coming out of Oxford. That's of course 807 00:52:15.159 --> 00:52:18.159 the you know, Central locale of I believe that the 808 00:52:18.239 --> 00:52:22.000 inner Party of the UH, for lack of a better terms, 809 00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:25.519 of real world controlling illuminati. So what I think is 810 00:52:25.559 --> 00:52:28.480 that they kind of throw out these different things like 811 00:52:28.519 --> 00:52:34.400 the megachurch and the these different trends in Christianity, like 812 00:52:34.559 --> 00:52:37.719 you know, Christian hip hop and all this kind of junk, 813 00:52:37.920 --> 00:52:40.440 which is just like a mimic of the so called 814 00:52:40.480 --> 00:52:44.159 secular stuff. Right, it's like a cheap copy of that stuff. 815 00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:45.119 Uh. 816 00:52:45.199 --> 00:52:48.599 And it's it's all marketed in exactly the same way 817 00:52:48.800 --> 00:52:52.760 as the mainline stuff, right. It looks exactly the same. 818 00:52:52.760 --> 00:52:55.480 It's not really anything substantially different. So that maybe throwing 819 00:52:55.599 --> 00:52:58.400 Jesus here and there, and I think it's, yeah, it's 820 00:52:58.400 --> 00:53:00.360 all it's all a scam. It's it's just as much 821 00:53:00.360 --> 00:53:03.159 a scam as anything else that you know, you guys 822 00:53:03.159 --> 00:53:07.000 talk about. So, yeah, all of these movements seem to 823 00:53:07.000 --> 00:53:11.480 be dubious, and they tie into homeland security quite often. 824 00:53:11.559 --> 00:53:15.000 You know, these mega churches, emergent churches are full of 825 00:53:15.079 --> 00:53:18.400 people who are informists for homeland security. There have been 826 00:53:18.400 --> 00:53:21.599 plenty of articles and mainstream news reports about that as well. 827 00:53:23.559 --> 00:53:29.920 You know what, one of the biggest seats of modernist 828 00:53:30.119 --> 00:53:31.199 architecture is. 829 00:53:34.719 --> 00:53:37.599 Well, what it could be a lot of things. 830 00:53:37.599 --> 00:53:41.239 What one of the biggest feats that you can attribute 831 00:53:41.280 --> 00:53:44.280 to modernist architecture the Crystal Cathedrals. 832 00:53:45.159 --> 00:53:46.760 Oh okay, yeah, Robert, there you go. 833 00:53:48.440 --> 00:53:53.480 Yeah, Philip Johnson was the woman who designed the Crystal Cathedral. 834 00:53:53.840 --> 00:53:57.000 And then a guy we talked about quite often in 835 00:53:57.079 --> 00:54:00.280 this the guy who built the original church for the 836 00:54:00.360 --> 00:54:05.519 Chris Cathedral was built, was Richard Neutra, who builds all 837 00:54:05.559 --> 00:54:09.239 of the other stuff that we've talked about. But yeah, 838 00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:13.639 that's another thing that ties into this, and this is 839 00:54:13.639 --> 00:54:16.159 a good point to bring it up, because there's actually 840 00:54:16.159 --> 00:54:23.199 a connection between modernism and modernist Christianity modernism in the 841 00:54:23.239 --> 00:54:26.440 sense of how we've been discussing it, because you start 842 00:54:26.480 --> 00:54:30.440 to see in the nineteen fifties you start to see 843 00:54:30.639 --> 00:54:33.719 this and you see this in the Catholic Church as well, 844 00:54:34.320 --> 00:54:38.119 where you start seeing these churches starting to be updated 845 00:54:38.239 --> 00:54:40.800 in the way that they're built, and they're all built 846 00:54:41.280 --> 00:54:46.079 in modernist fashion. They've totally and post modernist fashion. They've 847 00:54:46.079 --> 00:54:48.960 totally done away with the church and the steeple in 848 00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:55.599 the classical sense, and now you've got, you know, modern 849 00:54:55.639 --> 00:54:59.000 buildings where some of them don't even have crosses on them, 850 00:54:59.159 --> 00:55:01.360 or you don't even that it's a church. It actually 851 00:55:01.400 --> 00:55:02.719 looks more like a civic center. 852 00:55:05.119 --> 00:55:09.440 Yeah, the the Catholic version is what you're talking about 853 00:55:09.639 --> 00:55:12.159 where and I know at a bit about all that. 854 00:55:12.199 --> 00:55:14.199 And this was especially. 855 00:55:15.480 --> 00:55:18.599 Say what, oh you you were breaking up there real bad. 856 00:55:19.000 --> 00:55:22.920 Oh. Yeah, this happens after Vatican Two, especially in the 857 00:55:22.920 --> 00:55:26.519 Catholic Church, where the norm for the architecture becomes all 858 00:55:26.519 --> 00:55:32.280 this hideous, uh, space station looking stuff. And what it 859 00:55:32.320 --> 00:55:36.320 looks like is the old Soviet style architecture of what 860 00:55:36.360 --> 00:55:40.159 they thought the future, like the retro futurism of the Soviets. 861 00:55:40.559 --> 00:55:43.480 It's what a lot of that post Vatican too, Catholic 862 00:55:43.599 --> 00:55:44.320 churches look. 863 00:55:44.320 --> 00:55:49.000 Like you looked into cause cosmism, Yes, I take that. 864 00:55:49.000 --> 00:55:49.960 I'm saying that right. 865 00:55:50.679 --> 00:55:53.639 When it's posted on that And uh, there's some interesting 866 00:55:54.519 --> 00:55:59.679 articles at us sold the East. Well, there's a woman 867 00:55:59.760 --> 00:56:02.840 named no Natalia Rtanina and she wrote a couple of 868 00:56:02.880 --> 00:56:07.519 interesting articles that deal with Russian cosmism. I forget the 869 00:56:07.559 --> 00:56:09.559 exact name of the article off the top of my head. 870 00:56:09.760 --> 00:56:11.719 I can link it or email it to you guys. 871 00:56:11.719 --> 00:56:17.159 But but yeah, Russian futurism and cosmism would have its 872 00:56:17.199 --> 00:56:20.480 own sort of weird style of architecture. And you know 873 00:56:20.519 --> 00:56:24.199 a lot of these Vatican two Postvatican Two churches in 874 00:56:24.239 --> 00:56:28.719 the Catholic Church took on that architecture absolutely right. And 875 00:56:28.760 --> 00:56:31.599 in the Protestant world, the corollary, I guess would be 876 00:56:31.639 --> 00:56:37.760 the nobnominational strip mall or the big metal building or 877 00:56:37.880 --> 00:56:40.519 the church that looks like a sports theater. 878 00:56:41.400 --> 00:56:43.199 Yeah, they have one of those down here on the 879 00:56:43.239 --> 00:56:48.159 corner from me, not too far. It's like a big Uh. 880 00:56:49.400 --> 00:56:51.480 I don't know if it's called a megachurch. I don't think. 881 00:56:51.480 --> 00:56:52.840 I don't know if it's that big, but it's a 882 00:56:52.840 --> 00:56:56.480 really big it's like a compound, But yeah, it does. 883 00:56:56.599 --> 00:56:58.840 It looks like what you just got to describe, and 884 00:56:58.880 --> 00:57:04.360 it's it's just like pre fab and a big, huge, 885 00:57:04.599 --> 00:57:09.639 gigantic parking lot that they bought from a defunct grocery 886 00:57:09.679 --> 00:57:13.880 store that used to be there. And uh, it's they're 887 00:57:14.119 --> 00:57:17.880 like charismatic. I guess that's what you classify it. And 888 00:57:17.920 --> 00:57:20.880 I think the think about the charismatic movement from and 889 00:57:21.039 --> 00:57:24.639 from what I gather, it's like really had a had 890 00:57:24.639 --> 00:57:27.639 a big research resurgence within the last I don't know 891 00:57:27.679 --> 00:57:29.119 how many years, twenty years or so. 892 00:57:30.920 --> 00:57:33.000 Especially in Africa and Latin America. 893 00:57:33.000 --> 00:57:36.679 By the way, Oh really okay, see, yeah, that it's 894 00:57:36.880 --> 00:57:39.440 it's it's really it's really big. Well, I mean they 895 00:57:39.519 --> 00:57:42.800 got this uh, this big compound down here and and 896 00:57:42.840 --> 00:57:44.559 then I don't I don't know how many members, but 897 00:57:44.599 --> 00:57:48.039 they have like two different services. Uh, so they can 898 00:57:48.079 --> 00:57:50.840 accommodate everybody. And they already have those like huge gigantic 899 00:57:50.880 --> 00:57:53.360 parking lot, so they with all that, they still have 900 00:57:53.519 --> 00:57:56.480 like two separate services. But I was just going to 901 00:57:56.559 --> 00:58:01.559 mention something about the uh charismatic movement and like if 902 00:58:01.559 --> 00:58:04.400 you do what Rick Warren, which is he's admitted to 903 00:58:04.440 --> 00:58:07.320 being a member of the Council Council on Foreign Relations. 904 00:58:07.320 --> 00:58:14.840 By the way, they talk about getting direct revelation from God. 905 00:58:15.000 --> 00:58:16.880 You know, that's probably what you know John's mentioning. You 906 00:58:16.920 --> 00:58:18.519 know he gets up and preaches and doesn't even have 907 00:58:18.559 --> 00:58:21.880 the Bible. Well, it's this idea that you know, you're 908 00:58:21.920 --> 00:58:27.480 getting like direct tapped into you know, the Holy Spirit 909 00:58:27.559 --> 00:58:32.119 and God and and you're getting direct revelation. And that's 910 00:58:32.320 --> 00:58:37.199 that's an idea in in you know, the charismatic movement especially. 911 00:58:37.280 --> 00:58:41.639 I think that is what you see now a lot 912 00:58:41.760 --> 00:58:44.639 where you know, like like like you're talking about where 913 00:58:44.679 --> 00:58:47.760 people don't really are into reading the Bible or knowing 914 00:58:47.760 --> 00:58:51.960 anything about the Bible really, and that I think that's uh, 915 00:58:52.960 --> 00:58:55.800 at least on my base, on my experience, I gather 916 00:58:56.000 --> 00:59:00.800 that just about anybody I've ever spoken to who doesn't 917 00:59:00.840 --> 00:59:02.519 really know a whole lot about the Bible and they 918 00:59:02.519 --> 00:59:04.960 don't really read the Bible a whole lot. I mean, 919 00:59:04.960 --> 00:59:09.000 you find exceptions here and there, but generally speaking, it's 920 00:59:09.079 --> 00:59:12.320 it's more to do like you'll hear people talk about, well, 921 00:59:12.360 --> 00:59:14.960 you know, God told me this, God told me that 922 00:59:15.039 --> 00:59:18.320 God's moving in my life, He's working in my life, 923 00:59:19.000 --> 00:59:24.920 and it's all this kind of, uh, this concept of 924 00:59:24.960 --> 00:59:29.039 this you know, spirit influence that they're having. They'll make 925 00:59:29.119 --> 00:59:32.280 reference to the Bible, but it's it's not like they're 926 00:59:32.480 --> 00:59:35.119 directing our life according to the Bible. It's more this 927 00:59:35.199 --> 00:59:38.800 idea of this direct revelation from God. 928 00:59:39.480 --> 00:59:44.159 Absolutely and this, oddly enough, is all directly out of 929 00:59:44.199 --> 00:59:50.800 the suspects we mentioned earlier, right theosophy. Theosophy and anthroposophy 930 00:59:51.480 --> 00:59:54.800 are the foundations of the ecumenical movement. And you can 931 00:59:54.840 --> 00:59:58.079 go back to Madam Wolvatsky who talked about this. We 932 00:59:58.159 --> 01:00:03.519 mentioned Krishna Murdi under any Bassan, so he was involved 933 01:00:03.519 --> 01:00:06.159 in the Theosophical Society, you know, a big guy in 934 01:00:06.159 --> 01:00:10.800 the ecumenical movement. So in the idea there is that, 935 01:00:10.880 --> 01:00:16.360 you know, my tapping into right is what is what's 936 01:00:16.400 --> 01:00:18.880 guiding me into whatever force that that might be, whether 937 01:00:18.880 --> 01:00:22.079 it's my mind or you know, demons or something who knows. 938 01:00:22.119 --> 01:00:27.039 But but that's the problem, is that there's no guideline 939 01:00:27.519 --> 01:00:30.159 by which we can determine, you know, the source of 940 01:00:30.239 --> 01:00:35.039 these of these experiences. And when I was eighteen or 941 01:00:35.079 --> 01:00:38.639 nineteen started reading the Bible, I visited some charismatic churches 942 01:00:38.679 --> 01:00:40.880 to just check it out. You know, it's kind of like, well, 943 01:00:41.760 --> 01:00:44.000 reading the Bible, you know which church is right, I'm 944 01:00:44.000 --> 01:00:46.519 gonna you know, taste all thirty two flavors or thirty 945 01:00:46.559 --> 01:00:50.519 two thousand flavors, but I'm gonna go see which ones are, 946 01:00:50.599 --> 01:00:52.159 you know, check it out. And I went to a 947 01:00:52.159 --> 01:00:55.400 whole bunch of different churches to get an idea. And 948 01:00:55.440 --> 01:00:57.599 what you noticed in the charismatic churches is that that's 949 01:00:57.639 --> 01:01:01.400 absolutely the case. There's you know, very little Bible literacy, 950 01:01:02.480 --> 01:01:05.119 and everybody's just kind of looking for and waiting for 951 01:01:05.159 --> 01:01:10.519 this next experience, which probably ninety five to ninety nine 952 01:01:10.559 --> 01:01:14.119 percent of the time is just people's emotions that they're 953 01:01:14.239 --> 01:01:17.480 mistaking for the so called spirit. 954 01:01:17.880 --> 01:01:22.679 I would say, yeah, a lot of things too. Is 955 01:01:24.320 --> 01:01:26.000 you know one thing you guys brought up I wanted 956 01:01:26.039 --> 01:01:29.079 to mention because you know, I was raised in the 957 01:01:29.119 --> 01:01:33.440 throes of the charismatic movement out here, and my parents 958 01:01:33.440 --> 01:01:38.920 attended Calvy Chapel and I went to private school with 959 01:01:38.960 --> 01:01:42.400 a lot of kids, some kids who were also pastors, 960 01:01:42.719 --> 01:01:49.280 children from local churches. And the one thing I noticed, 961 01:01:49.559 --> 01:01:54.480 like you said, like these churches take on these postmodernist 962 01:01:54.719 --> 01:02:01.079 structures when they're built. And when that movement first started 963 01:02:01.079 --> 01:02:04.679 out in the sixties, the idea behind it was was 964 01:02:04.760 --> 01:02:07.639 something that you could probably get on board with at 965 01:02:07.639 --> 01:02:09.719 a certain level where it's like, Hey, you don't need 966 01:02:09.760 --> 01:02:12.920 to go here and go there, We're going to do 967 01:02:12.920 --> 01:02:15.000 our own thing. You can come to my house and 968 01:02:15.039 --> 01:02:19.599 we'll have Bible study, right, And that's how that kind 969 01:02:19.599 --> 01:02:21.760 of started out. It's like, hey, come over to my house. 970 01:02:21.840 --> 01:02:24.320 I mean, that's what my parents used to do. They 971 01:02:24.320 --> 01:02:26.719 come over to the house, we'll have people over, we'll 972 01:02:26.719 --> 01:02:29.639 have Bible study and and we you know, we don't 973 01:02:29.639 --> 01:02:31.719 need to go to a church to do that or 974 01:02:32.320 --> 01:02:36.760 you know whatever. And then it then from that point 975 01:02:36.800 --> 01:02:38.840 it turned into well, I can you know, we can 976 01:02:38.880 --> 01:02:41.440 rent this warehouse and we can have the church there 977 01:02:41.800 --> 01:02:45.599 until we're able to get space. But then once the 978 01:02:45.639 --> 01:02:49.599 people can afford to have the church built, they don't. 979 01:02:49.679 --> 01:02:54.679 They purposely don't build it like an old church, right, 980 01:02:55.400 --> 01:02:58.079 they don't build they don't build it in a traditional fashion. 981 01:02:58.480 --> 01:03:01.199 They build it like, you know, like you guys said, 982 01:03:01.239 --> 01:03:04.840 like in a postmodernist fashion, where it looks nothing like 983 01:03:04.880 --> 01:03:10.239 a church, it has no traditional ties to anything else. 984 01:03:11.519 --> 01:03:14.440 And so people have been brought up. 985 01:03:14.360 --> 01:03:14.599 In a. 986 01:03:16.480 --> 01:03:19.360 In a fashion today where they don't know anything about 987 01:03:19.400 --> 01:03:24.639 what took place before and they don't know how, you know, 988 01:03:24.760 --> 01:03:27.880 anything else looks and all of them. And if you 989 01:03:28.039 --> 01:03:31.239 if you were to say to somebody today, hey, the 990 01:03:31.320 --> 01:03:35.119 majority of the stuff that you believe actually comes out 991 01:03:35.159 --> 01:03:41.559 of the theosophy, Yeah, they would they would, they would 992 01:03:43.119 --> 01:03:48.920 they would be mad at you because they wouldn't believe you, right, Like, hey, 993 01:03:49.119 --> 01:03:52.079 you're talking about communing with the Holy Spirit, and things 994 01:03:52.119 --> 01:03:55.159 like that, Like people didn't talk that way, you know, 995 01:03:55.280 --> 01:03:59.519 prior prior to the eighteen eighties, okay, and the only 996 01:03:59.519 --> 01:04:03.960 people to talk like that were theosophists and spiritualists and 997 01:04:04.599 --> 01:04:09.119 mentalists and things like that. And you know, interestingly enough, 998 01:04:09.159 --> 01:04:14.960 around the same time I made this connection, I was 999 01:04:15.079 --> 01:04:17.719 thinking about that, this is all around the same time 1000 01:04:17.760 --> 01:04:25.599 that Mesmer's stuff came out with so that that all 1001 01:04:25.639 --> 01:04:31.159 plays into into you know, the falling down and you know, 1002 01:04:31.559 --> 01:04:35.000 all I can you know, the blind can see, the 1003 01:04:35.960 --> 01:04:40.880 lane can walk type stuff, And there's a whole series 1004 01:04:40.920 --> 01:04:45.119 of that type of stuff as well, especially in the 1005 01:04:45.199 --> 01:04:53.400 nineteen twenties with the tent revivals and then well then 1006 01:04:53.639 --> 01:04:58.599 also also big time after the Depression, because people were 1007 01:04:58.920 --> 01:05:02.599 looking for reasons why the depression happened, not because you know, 1008 01:05:02.639 --> 01:05:05.920 the rich elite stole everything. It was because God was 1009 01:05:06.039 --> 01:05:11.639 danning America and telling them to turn back to God. 1010 01:05:11.679 --> 01:05:16.920 And that's what the preachers were saying, and so people 1011 01:05:16.960 --> 01:05:20.719 were looking to churches and so that a lot of 1012 01:05:20.719 --> 01:05:24.159 the preachers gained a stronghold during that particular time period. 1013 01:05:25.800 --> 01:05:27.719 It makes me think of that, what's that Steve Martin 1014 01:05:27.760 --> 01:05:32.920 movie from the nineties I think where he's the con 1015 01:05:32.960 --> 01:05:35.079 man preacher. Remember that Leap. 1016 01:05:34.840 --> 01:05:40.719 Of Faith, Leap of Faith, Leap of Faith. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 1017 01:05:40.719 --> 01:05:43.400 there's a there's a series of those stuff. And see 1018 01:05:43.559 --> 01:05:48.360 that's the thing that that's too bad about, you know, 1019 01:05:48.400 --> 01:05:52.440 people like Robert Kilton, even my favorite even my favorite 1020 01:05:52.440 --> 01:05:55.320 televangelist because if you want to talk about it, a 1021 01:05:55.360 --> 01:06:04.960 direct connection to God. Yeah. Uh but yeah, see those 1022 01:06:05.000 --> 01:06:07.480 guys obviously, like like you said, those guys are on 1023 01:06:08.239 --> 01:06:10.360 are on government table to act like a bunch of 1024 01:06:10.440 --> 01:06:14.440 koops and make Christians look bad. And then when you 1025 01:06:14.480 --> 01:06:18.719 see a movie like the uh like Leap of Faith 1026 01:06:18.760 --> 01:06:21.840 and the other one, what was the one with Robert 1027 01:06:21.960 --> 01:06:22.960 Huball where he. 1028 01:06:23.079 --> 01:06:28.320 Was yeah yeah, where he he kills somebody and remember that. Yeah. 1029 01:06:28.440 --> 01:06:28.679 Yeah. 1030 01:06:28.719 --> 01:06:34.880 So there's the there's there's Hollywood critiquing Christianity there, and 1031 01:06:34.880 --> 01:06:38.239 and they're critiquing in the fashion you know, like like oh, 1032 01:06:38.280 --> 01:06:41.119 look at these bad Christians, are you know, idiots from 1033 01:06:41.159 --> 01:06:47.679 believing the stuff? Right? And so do you have this 1034 01:06:47.840 --> 01:06:57.480 dialectic going on there? And so anyways, uh, unfortunate. I 1035 01:06:57.519 --> 01:06:59.760 was just going to finish real quick here and then 1036 01:07:00.320 --> 01:07:04.880 I'll leave you guys have the rest of the discussion. Unfortunately, 1037 01:07:05.400 --> 01:07:09.199 growing up in the nineteen eighties and with one foot 1038 01:07:09.239 --> 01:07:15.760 in Christian culture and one foot being persuaded by the 1039 01:07:15.760 --> 01:07:21.079 worldly culture. If you're going to listen to a heavy 1040 01:07:21.119 --> 01:07:24.320 metal band in the nineteen eighties, you're not going to 1041 01:07:24.400 --> 01:07:29.559 listen to a Christian heavy metal band. And the Christian 1042 01:07:29.679 --> 01:07:32.320 culture all it did was try to any like you 1043 01:07:32.320 --> 01:07:34.559 were saying, all did was trying to anyway. Everything on 1044 01:07:34.599 --> 01:07:42.079 the radio or everything looks like like they've come out 1045 01:07:42.119 --> 01:07:45.960 with books that were kind of like Stephen King will 1046 01:07:46.000 --> 01:07:49.239 it's like a book. There was a book that was 1047 01:07:49.320 --> 01:07:52.679 very famous in the eighties with Christians called This Present Darkness. 1048 01:07:53.000 --> 01:07:54.639 Yeah, Frank pretty. 1049 01:07:55.360 --> 01:07:57.800 Frank pretty, and then he's all hooked into the Council 1050 01:07:57.880 --> 01:08:01.559 for National Policy and everything. But yeah, so we're gonna 1051 01:08:01.559 --> 01:08:05.000 write a Stephen King type novel to have it, but 1052 01:08:05.079 --> 01:08:07.960 it's gonna have a Christian it's gonna have a you know, 1053 01:08:08.000 --> 01:08:11.000 one foot in Christianity sort of peel through the Christians 1054 01:08:11.280 --> 01:08:13.880 because Stephen King is so popular at this time period. 1055 01:08:13.920 --> 01:08:16.680 And then we're gonna Christian death metal bands. There were 1056 01:08:16.760 --> 01:08:18.760 Christian death metal bands in the nineties. 1057 01:08:19.359 --> 01:08:23.760 You know, Christian vampire novels, now I just looked that up. 1058 01:08:29.640 --> 01:08:32.439 I guess I guess it doesn't I guess it doesn't 1059 01:08:32.439 --> 01:08:34.840 work if you staff, if you, you know, pull the 1060 01:08:34.840 --> 01:08:39.239 cross out for him. 1061 01:08:39.279 --> 01:08:41.520 Well it should, right, I mean that's the way. 1062 01:08:42.760 --> 01:08:47.319 Well la cross of the repel then actually lets them 1063 01:08:47.359 --> 01:08:47.720 into the. 1064 01:08:47.640 --> 01:09:00.960 House apparently is such a thing. Wow, just selling that out, well, 1065 01:09:01.159 --> 01:09:04.960 just take I'm sorry, Oh no, I was just gonna 1066 01:09:04.960 --> 01:09:08.000 say it. Just take takes what's already kind of popular 1067 01:09:08.039 --> 01:09:11.079 in culture and puts a Christian angle on it and 1068 01:09:11.119 --> 01:09:14.239 then repackages it, puts it out there films, you know, 1069 01:09:14.640 --> 01:09:18.439 but you know the same action thrillers, Christian action thrillers. 1070 01:09:18.119 --> 01:09:30.680 Christians behind garbage with the cage, right, yeah, y well. 1071 01:09:30.880 --> 01:09:33.520 The what's interesting about the architecture aspect too that I 1072 01:09:33.520 --> 01:09:36.920 wanted to mention was that it's curious to me that 1073 01:09:37.399 --> 01:09:40.920 the idea in uh, you know, the early Church, why 1074 01:09:40.960 --> 01:09:46.600 they started building cathedrals and uh, you know, big edifices 1075 01:09:46.720 --> 01:09:50.000 that were an ornate. It wasn't just some sort of 1076 01:09:51.479 --> 01:09:58.159 notion of being ostentatious or whatever. It was because you know, 1077 01:09:58.199 --> 01:10:01.239 if you lived in a hamlet or a village or 1078 01:10:01.279 --> 01:10:07.039 something like this, the most architecture was built that way 1079 01:10:07.079 --> 01:10:10.520 to begin with, in the sense of durability and longevity. 1080 01:10:11.319 --> 01:10:14.039 So the idea was because it was I guess I 1081 01:10:14.079 --> 01:10:17.760 would argue more traditional. The notion was that you're you're 1082 01:10:17.840 --> 01:10:20.319 building this church not just for you, You're building it 1083 01:10:20.399 --> 01:10:24.039 for subsequent generations, right, so your children and your children's 1084 01:10:24.119 --> 01:10:26.920 children and so forth are going to be worshiping at 1085 01:10:26.920 --> 01:10:31.119 this same building. It therefore makes sense to make it 1086 01:10:31.119 --> 01:10:35.600 out of brick and stone sort to last, you know, right. 1087 01:10:35.680 --> 01:10:39.800 So that's and that's contrasted to this idea of progeny 1088 01:10:39.840 --> 01:10:43.920 and building things for the future, is contrasted drastically with 1089 01:10:45.159 --> 01:10:50.920 the consumerist, you know, transient aspect of the way the 1090 01:10:51.000 --> 01:10:53.600 churches that we're talking about are built where they're built, 1091 01:10:53.800 --> 01:10:58.319 especially in Protestantism and non Denominationalism and Evangelicalism, they're just 1092 01:10:58.359 --> 01:11:01.119 these like big metal buildings that you know, are not 1093 01:11:01.159 --> 01:11:01.760 going to last. 1094 01:11:04.880 --> 01:11:09.359 Yeah, like uh yeah, the prefab stuff, and they could 1095 01:11:09.359 --> 01:11:13.439 throw it up real quick, and yeah that's uh yeah, 1096 01:11:13.520 --> 01:11:14.840 I've taken note of that. 1097 01:11:18.079 --> 01:11:21.960 So it's not a position that is even concerned or 1098 01:11:22.000 --> 01:11:26.039 thinking about, you know, where are our descendants going to 1099 01:11:26.039 --> 01:11:26.760 be worshiping? 1100 01:11:26.960 --> 01:11:31.039 You know, just like the rest of the culture. I mean, 1101 01:11:31.520 --> 01:11:34.199 shopping centers are the same way. I mean, you go 1102 01:11:34.319 --> 01:11:36.279 look at the shopping center. It's like, okay, that's going 1103 01:11:36.359 --> 01:11:39.680 to be gone with the first strong win that comes 1104 01:11:39.720 --> 01:11:42.000 through here. You know, it's it's just not gonna be 1105 01:11:42.119 --> 01:11:44.680 something there's going to last very long. But you know 1106 01:11:44.880 --> 01:11:48.479 it's just uh yeah. And now church is the same thing. Yeah, 1107 01:11:48.479 --> 01:11:49.920 that's a good point. 1108 01:11:50.159 --> 01:11:53.800 I think about what it's focusing on, the immediate here 1109 01:11:53.840 --> 01:11:56.840 and now, and that makes sense with this idea of 1110 01:11:57.079 --> 01:12:00.520 you know, the loss of belief in the eternal, and 1111 01:12:00.560 --> 01:12:04.479 I think that's directly connected to the notion of something 1112 01:12:04.520 --> 01:12:08.920 being true with the capital T meaning you know, objectively, consistently, 1113 01:12:08.960 --> 01:12:16.119 always true, eternally true. Is contrasted with pragmatism, which is 1114 01:12:16.159 --> 01:12:19.239 the only school of philosophy that America has produced, which 1115 01:12:19.560 --> 01:12:24.039 makes sense with the idea of America pragmatism and the 1116 01:12:24.079 --> 01:12:29.439 immediate here now empiricism. This is all we got. And 1117 01:12:29.760 --> 01:12:33.840 you know, it's a reflection of the consumerism in the 1118 01:12:33.920 --> 01:12:34.840 society as a whole. 1119 01:12:37.159 --> 01:12:41.840 Yeah, the me centered culture, the century of the self, 1120 01:12:43.720 --> 01:12:47.479 that whole thing. And then yeah, and you look at 1121 01:12:47.600 --> 01:12:55.079 how all of these institutions within the greater system are 1122 01:12:55.119 --> 01:12:58.600 all integrated. It's amazing. Oh yeah, it's that, you know. 1123 01:12:58.680 --> 01:13:01.399 The Okay, Now, the church is follows suit and then 1124 01:13:01.439 --> 01:13:05.600 they reflective and they of the culture at large with 1125 01:13:05.640 --> 01:13:11.039 whichever direction it starts to head. The churches incorporate doctrines 1126 01:13:11.119 --> 01:13:14.560 and theology and stuff that is reflective of the wider culture. 1127 01:13:15.600 --> 01:13:19.359 And I've talked about that in the past calls and stuff. 1128 01:13:19.399 --> 01:13:24.680 How that, yeah that I noticed that growing up and 1129 01:13:24.720 --> 01:13:27.760 going to church. How that was the case, you know, 1130 01:13:28.600 --> 01:13:34.199 or things that were deemed by the culture at large 1131 01:13:34.239 --> 01:13:38.279 as being bad things, and then the church would adopt 1132 01:13:38.560 --> 01:13:42.079 those sentiments. And then uh, but you can go back, 1133 01:13:42.600 --> 01:13:45.800 you know, when I was a h. 1134 01:13:47.319 --> 01:13:49.880 A pipe or a cigarette tobacco like you mentioned. 1135 01:13:49.680 --> 01:13:54.479 Yeah, yeah, and you'd see the guys out, uh mainly 1136 01:13:54.960 --> 01:14:00.279 men out smoking during the enter the between the glass 1137 01:14:00.359 --> 01:14:03.399 in the Sunday school service a there'd be about a 1138 01:14:03.439 --> 01:14:07.039 ten minute break and then be men out there smoking. 1139 01:14:07.600 --> 01:14:10.600 And you know that that doesn't happen anymore. You don't 1140 01:14:10.640 --> 01:14:13.760 even uh wouldn't you know if you if you smoke, 1141 01:14:13.800 --> 01:14:16.600 you don't even let yourself be seen smoking because it's 1142 01:14:16.600 --> 01:14:20.319 something that's that is uh, you know, deemed as bad 1143 01:14:20.840 --> 01:14:23.359 by the Church. And then also like, yeah, you wouldn't 1144 01:14:23.680 --> 01:14:25.640 take a drink out in public or anything like that, 1145 01:14:25.640 --> 01:14:29.079 because that's that's seen as Unchristian or non Christian, even 1146 01:14:29.119 --> 01:14:32.119 though there's no prohibition against it in the Bible at all, 1147 01:14:32.199 --> 01:14:34.199 you know, any of those prohibitions. 1148 01:14:34.439 --> 01:14:36.359 The Psalms even say God gave line. 1149 01:14:38.079 --> 01:14:41.520 Yeah, well, he says, let the foremahan drink to forget 1150 01:14:41.520 --> 01:14:42.039 his troubles. 1151 01:14:42.079 --> 01:14:46.159 And proverbs too, he says, let the fore man have 1152 01:14:46.239 --> 01:14:49.840 his drink. There's a statement in Deuteronomy where God even 1153 01:14:49.880 --> 01:14:54.680 says that when the Israelites come together to celebrate the 1154 01:14:54.720 --> 01:14:59.600 feast days, he wishes that they have strong drink. So 1155 01:15:00.600 --> 01:15:05.359 just utterly postrous invention of some you know, some guys, 1156 01:15:05.479 --> 01:15:08.359 some control freak pastor who just got the idea, you 1157 01:15:08.399 --> 01:15:12.399 know that. And I think that goes back to Americanism, 1158 01:15:12.520 --> 01:15:17.600 American revivalism and the Temperance movement that was all, you know, 1159 01:15:17.800 --> 01:15:22.159 connected to the same idea of social engineering. Now interesting, 1160 01:15:22.279 --> 01:15:26.640 the Temperance movement reminds me of it comes up in 1161 01:15:26.640 --> 01:15:30.479 this book I just read called The Messianic Character of 1162 01:15:30.520 --> 01:15:36.039 American Education. And I don't agree with everything that Rush 1163 01:15:36.119 --> 01:15:38.560 Jenny promotes. Who's the authors, but he is kind of 1164 01:15:38.600 --> 01:15:42.199 he's the founder of the homeschool movement. And what's good 1165 01:15:42.199 --> 01:15:46.239 about this book is that he includes about several hundred 1166 01:15:46.359 --> 01:15:50.279 quotes from the I think he picks about twenty or 1167 01:15:50.319 --> 01:15:54.840 twenty five of the founding guys in American education. And 1168 01:15:54.960 --> 01:15:57.399 the reason this is relevant to our humunism talk is 1169 01:15:57.399 --> 01:16:02.319 that it's the exact same idea of Messianism, but it's 1170 01:16:02.359 --> 01:16:05.079 all going to be at the behest of the socialist state. 1171 01:16:05.800 --> 01:16:10.800 So when you look at the figures of Horace Mann, 1172 01:16:11.279 --> 01:16:18.880 John Dewey, JB. Watson, Edward Sheldon, Henry Barnard, there's a 1173 01:16:18.920 --> 01:16:21.960 there's a whole list of these character William James, the philosopher, 1174 01:16:22.479 --> 01:16:23.640 was influential in this. 1175 01:16:24.720 --> 01:16:24.840 Uh. 1176 01:16:25.800 --> 01:16:29.640 They have the idea, I'm not joking. This sounds extreme, 1177 01:16:29.960 --> 01:16:33.439 but they literally thought that public. 1178 01:16:33.079 --> 01:16:41.279 Schooling was a messianic reality that would bring salvation to America, 1179 01:16:41.359 --> 01:16:43.520 and then America would then bring public. 1180 01:16:43.239 --> 01:16:47.000 Schooling to the world, and that the whole change. Now lit'sten, 1181 01:16:47.039 --> 01:16:49.920 here's here's here's a quote from Horace Mann, who was 1182 01:16:50.000 --> 01:16:54.439 a Unitarian universalist. The public school, the common school is 1183 01:16:54.479 --> 01:16:58.520 the greatest discovery ever by man and he goes on 1184 01:16:58.600 --> 01:17:02.560 to say that through the implementation, we will create a utopia. 1185 01:17:03.720 --> 01:17:07.399 That's quotes from of course man, we also go on 1186 01:17:08.119 --> 01:17:09.439 I'm not going to read them all, but I mean 1187 01:17:09.479 --> 01:17:13.760 there's countless quotes where you have these founding guys saying 1188 01:17:13.800 --> 01:17:18.159 that the goal of education, especially John Dewey, is not 1189 01:17:18.239 --> 01:17:21.680 to educate or to teach a child how to learn, 1190 01:17:21.840 --> 01:17:24.800 but to socialize them, and by that he means to 1191 01:17:24.840 --> 01:17:30.560 bring them into conformity with the world state. Now, I'm 1192 01:17:30.560 --> 01:17:34.960 not saying that socialism and Marxism is, as we've discussed, 1193 01:17:35.560 --> 01:17:38.720 like a secret ideology that's going to take over the world. 1194 01:17:39.399 --> 01:17:44.600 It's an ideology that's promoted by the capitalist global elite, 1195 01:17:44.960 --> 01:17:50.600 the banking elite, so forth, corporate elite, because it destroys 1196 01:17:51.039 --> 01:17:55.119 the critical thinking of individuals, and that's why it's so 1197 01:17:55.239 --> 01:17:59.239 heavily promoted. So it's not even Marxism, because that was 1198 01:17:59.439 --> 01:18:05.319 primarily and economic philosophy of you know, modes of exchange 1199 01:18:05.359 --> 01:18:08.479 and means of production and all that. It's rather this 1200 01:18:08.720 --> 01:18:16.039 generic idea of sloganized, sloganeering socialism that is literally the 1201 01:18:16.319 --> 01:18:19.479 worldview of every every single one of the founding fathers 1202 01:18:19.520 --> 01:18:22.880 of American education. They all talk about it, and they 1203 01:18:22.920 --> 01:18:27.960 talk about it as necessary for democracy. They even say 1204 01:18:28.000 --> 01:18:32.239 that democracy is not just democracy, it's a salvafic way 1205 01:18:32.319 --> 01:18:32.880 of life. 1206 01:18:34.319 --> 01:18:35.880 Wow, yeah, that is. 1207 01:18:37.920 --> 01:18:40.920 Let's see which character that was that said that education 1208 01:18:41.079 --> 01:18:46.840 to see Carlton Washburn one of the I forget what 1209 01:18:46.880 --> 01:18:48.960 he did, but he's one of these founding guys. And 1210 01:18:49.720 --> 01:18:56.960 you see, a democracy means that America will be the 1211 01:18:57.039 --> 01:19:01.359 instrument through which public education will be spread to the globe. 1212 01:19:01.399 --> 01:19:05.479 And it's public education that is democracy, and democracy is 1213 01:19:05.520 --> 01:19:10.359 a Solvafic way of life. So another whilst the supposed 1214 01:19:10.359 --> 01:19:13.000 idea of democracy is this idea that we all equal, 1215 01:19:13.079 --> 01:19:15.920 we all have the same i'd vote, we all get 1216 01:19:15.920 --> 01:19:21.039 then equal vote, blah blah blah, egalitarianism, and that necessitates then, 1217 01:19:21.159 --> 01:19:24.359 oh well, if we're going to be democratic, you got 1218 01:19:24.359 --> 01:19:26.680 to have public schools because it's not fair to have 1219 01:19:26.760 --> 01:19:30.319 private schools or people learning on their own. Got to 1220 01:19:30.319 --> 01:19:34.199 have public schools. There's also an interesting chapter that shows 1221 01:19:34.239 --> 01:19:36.359 the correlation that comes out of this, which is the 1222 01:19:36.439 --> 01:19:41.239 idea that, well, you can't have gifted students because that 1223 01:19:41.279 --> 01:19:44.720 would presume some higher status and that's not fair to 1224 01:19:44.760 --> 01:19:47.560 everyone else. So even like back one hundred years ago, 1225 01:19:47.560 --> 01:19:50.199 when they were really discussing putting into place the public 1226 01:19:50.279 --> 01:19:57.199 education system, they were already stacking the deck against to 1227 01:19:57.600 --> 01:20:01.560 war against individual critical thinkers, to war against genius, to 1228 01:20:01.720 --> 01:20:04.239 war against gifted students, and so forth. Those are the 1229 01:20:04.239 --> 01:20:07.720 ones that are marked as the problem. As Merchant Russell said, 1230 01:20:07.760 --> 01:20:12.319 for example, But all these, all these same American education guys, 1231 01:20:12.920 --> 01:20:14.840 they're all by the way, and every one of them 1232 01:20:14.840 --> 01:20:18.680 are Darwinian, and they think that they think that we 1233 01:20:18.760 --> 01:20:25.600 are evolving into one big mass clump that will bring 1234 01:20:25.680 --> 01:20:30.560 the utopia. Now I'm not again, it's not it's not 1235 01:20:30.600 --> 01:20:35.079 that Marxism is the point. It's that people believe these 1236 01:20:37.039 --> 01:20:41.039 cloudy ideals and they act on them. And all the 1237 01:20:41.079 --> 01:20:45.600 founding fathers of American public schooling believed it, and they 1238 01:20:45.680 --> 01:20:47.600 even say that if you don't go along with this, 1239 01:20:47.760 --> 01:20:49.680 you're going to have to be dealt with. Hence they 1240 01:20:49.720 --> 01:20:54.279 were behind mandatory public schooling and the idea of truancy 1241 01:20:54.319 --> 01:20:54.960 and so forth. 1242 01:20:58.680 --> 01:21:02.279 Yeah, that's that's there. I wasn't quite aware of all 1243 01:21:02.319 --> 01:21:06.520 that those connections there. I you know, I was, uh, 1244 01:21:07.520 --> 01:21:09.640 when I when I used to go to church, I 1245 01:21:09.640 --> 01:21:15.960 would get into debates a lot about about the Sunday school, uh, 1246 01:21:16.359 --> 01:21:22.000 a whole set up in the churches, and I would, 1247 01:21:22.199 --> 01:21:25.319 you know, among other things, I would you know, question 1248 01:21:25.840 --> 01:21:28.319 stuff you know that's going on, doctrinal issues and stuff 1249 01:21:28.359 --> 01:21:30.560 like that, and I was just you know, I would 1250 01:21:30.560 --> 01:21:33.800 get into discussions with the creatures and stuff about hey, 1251 01:21:33.800 --> 01:21:36.680 you know, I mean, how is this, uh, you know, 1252 01:21:36.760 --> 01:21:39.960 remind me how this is scriptural because I don't see. 1253 01:21:40.119 --> 01:21:42.960 I see admonitions in the Bible to raise up your children, 1254 01:21:42.960 --> 01:21:46.279 but those are two the parents. That's not something that 1255 01:21:46.319 --> 01:21:50.439 you naturally delegate to somebody else. So so I had 1256 01:21:50.439 --> 01:21:53.000 a problem with the whole Sunday school concept, you know, 1257 01:21:53.039 --> 01:21:55.680 this principle of it. It's like, oh, well, you know, 1258 01:21:55.800 --> 01:21:58.680 you you turn your child over to somebody else to 1259 01:21:59.199 --> 01:22:00.760 bring them up in the way they should go. And 1260 01:22:00.800 --> 01:22:02.760 it's like, well, I don't think that's what the Bible 1261 01:22:02.800 --> 01:22:05.199 is talking about. I think it's admonitions of parents, really, 1262 01:22:06.000 --> 01:22:09.279 and uh so, yeah, I'll go round and around with 1263 01:22:09.359 --> 01:22:15.479 him on that, and uh, it's just the idea behind it, 1264 01:22:15.520 --> 01:22:19.960 and I think that's probably what you just brought up. 1265 01:22:20.000 --> 01:22:22.399 There had a lot to do with that being implemented 1266 01:22:22.520 --> 01:22:24.720 in the churches. 1267 01:22:23.760 --> 01:22:26.960 Uh, because it's it's like kindergarten. 1268 01:22:27.720 --> 01:22:30.000 Yeah, that's what it's like. And it's kind of like 1269 01:22:30.039 --> 01:22:34.079 a it's just a principle of the idea that like, yeah, 1270 01:22:34.239 --> 01:22:37.399 you even uh take your take your child and put 1271 01:22:37.439 --> 01:22:40.199 them in turn them over to somebody else in order 1272 01:22:40.239 --> 01:22:42.439 to teach them about the Bible even you know. 1273 01:22:43.239 --> 01:22:46.079 Well, the founder of the idea of kindergarten is a 1274 01:22:46.159 --> 01:22:51.520 German guy, Friedrich Schrubeu, and he was borrowing his ideas 1275 01:22:51.560 --> 01:22:55.560 from the Prussian model of statism. And so the American 1276 01:22:55.600 --> 01:22:58.399 public education system, by the way, is all directly from 1277 01:22:58.399 --> 01:23:02.800 the Prussian state model of education, which was all collectives 1278 01:23:04.079 --> 01:23:07.279 and based on Hegel's philosophy of the state as the 1279 01:23:07.319 --> 01:23:10.479 march of God in history. Now I'm going to read 1280 01:23:10.520 --> 01:23:14.640 you in America, so Rubel was German. I'm going to 1281 01:23:14.720 --> 01:23:19.800 read you his evangelist in America a woman by the 1282 01:23:19.880 --> 01:23:30.760 name of what is her name, Emma Marwadel, some American 1283 01:23:30.880 --> 01:23:35.520 education woman. And then her horseman's sister in law is 1284 01:23:35.520 --> 01:23:39.039 a woman by the name of Elizabeth Peabody. This is 1285 01:23:39.039 --> 01:23:42.560 what Elizabeth Peabody says as she's going around promoting why 1286 01:23:42.600 --> 01:23:45.399 we have to have kindergarten. I'm not making this up, okay, 1287 01:23:45.479 --> 01:23:50.079 she says. She says kindergarten is true education because it 1288 01:23:50.159 --> 01:23:53.439 is a religion. It is not a vocation. It is 1289 01:23:53.479 --> 01:23:57.840 a vocation from God. It is the means to the millennium. 1290 01:23:58.439 --> 01:24:05.720 Children understood leading, children understood leading in the promised millennium 1291 01:24:05.840 --> 01:24:09.600 of peace on earth and good will among men will. 1292 01:24:09.399 --> 01:24:14.479 Make mankind forget the babble of confusion and it's experimenting 1293 01:24:15.079 --> 01:24:19.279 and enter into the mutual understanding of the Pentecost miracle. 1294 01:24:20.479 --> 01:24:24.720 So she literally she's saying public education, not just a 1295 01:24:24.760 --> 01:24:28.680 public education. When we have kindergarten everywhere, it will bring 1296 01:24:28.720 --> 01:24:32.800 the millennium and the reversal of Babel. It's a new Pentecost. 1297 01:24:33.800 --> 01:24:34.239 Wow. 1298 01:24:34.800 --> 01:24:37.079 Now there's hundreds of quotes like this. I know it's 1299 01:24:37.119 --> 01:24:41.000 hard to believe, but yeah, all of these. She goes 1300 01:24:41.039 --> 01:24:44.520 on to say, it's my prayer that God's will be 1301 01:24:44.520 --> 01:24:46.760 done on earth, and the way that we bring this 1302 01:24:47.039 --> 01:24:50.720 is through public education. She says, kindergarten will eradicate poverty, 1303 01:24:50.760 --> 01:24:52.960 it will prevent war, it will see to it that 1304 01:24:53.079 --> 01:24:57.640 dictators will rise no more. It will completely alter the 1305 01:24:57.720 --> 01:25:00.720 environment because the only she says, an the only way 1306 01:25:00.760 --> 01:25:02.800 that a kid could ever turn evil is because of 1307 01:25:02.840 --> 01:25:06.880 an evil environment. Now, what's interesting is that all of 1308 01:25:06.920 --> 01:25:11.439 these thinkers all have the same view that everything about 1309 01:25:11.479 --> 01:25:16.119 man is external. So in other words, everything that man, 1310 01:25:16.640 --> 01:25:21.479 all man's actions, are a result of the external stimuli 1311 01:25:22.079 --> 01:25:25.399 that he's received. And so this is why JB. Watson, 1312 01:25:25.479 --> 01:25:28.960 the founder of behaviorism, is so important to this school 1313 01:25:29.000 --> 01:25:33.399 because he says that the behaviorist techniques of operant conditioning, 1314 01:25:33.760 --> 01:25:39.399 stimulus response, deprogramming, and reprogramming repatterning. He says it will 1315 01:25:39.479 --> 01:25:45.000 lead to the idea of total conditioning through public schooling. 1316 01:25:46.720 --> 01:25:48.399 M Yeah. 1317 01:25:48.439 --> 01:25:52.640 And if you notice, like anything that you look at, 1318 01:25:53.319 --> 01:25:57.439 if it's dealing with like the third world of developing 1319 01:25:58.000 --> 01:26:01.520 economies and stuff like that, or anything to do with 1320 01:26:02.560 --> 01:26:06.960 you know, international relations, anything like that, it's always like 1321 01:26:07.000 --> 01:26:12.359 this heavy emphasis on school Yes, like the Yeah, those 1322 01:26:12.399 --> 01:26:16.800 in poverty, our primary concern is like we we need 1323 01:26:16.840 --> 01:26:20.720 to ensure and we need to help them get schools 1324 01:26:20.920 --> 01:26:25.319 and get education because education in schooling is so vital 1325 01:26:25.840 --> 01:26:29.520 to you know, economic prosperity and developing countries and all 1326 01:26:29.560 --> 01:26:33.479 that stuff. And there's so much emphasis placed on schooling 1327 01:26:33.880 --> 01:26:38.279 and so that it's now synonymous with if you can't 1328 01:26:38.319 --> 01:26:43.319 attend school, that's equal to poverty, that's equal to low 1329 01:26:43.399 --> 01:26:46.760 quality of life, that's equal to which in a lot 1330 01:26:46.760 --> 01:26:51.439 of respects, if you're in this artificial system, it is true. 1331 01:26:51.560 --> 01:26:54.920 It's like this uh, you know, self affirming thing that 1332 01:26:55.239 --> 01:26:59.920 exists in our in so called civilization. But yeah, but 1333 01:27:00.079 --> 01:27:05.159 you'll always hear about this. This just heavy drumbeat about 1334 01:27:05.439 --> 01:27:08.560 you know how how important that is. It's so important 1335 01:27:08.600 --> 01:27:11.960 to get these young minds into the classroom environment. 1336 01:27:12.439 --> 01:27:15.279 Yeah. Absolutely, And when you look at say, go to 1337 01:27:15.319 --> 01:27:18.960 the rock Tiller Foundation website and you pull up their 1338 01:27:19.159 --> 01:27:22.560 white papers on the budget and where the money's gone. 1339 01:27:22.600 --> 01:27:24.479 Where they which they all put up, they put it 1340 01:27:24.560 --> 01:27:26.960 up on there. Where does most of that money go. 1341 01:27:27.119 --> 01:27:31.199 It goes to education and schools in foreign countries, and 1342 01:27:31.239 --> 01:27:35.439 women's rights in foreign countries, which that means vaccines. 1343 01:27:34.840 --> 01:27:39.840 And horses and yeah, breaking down the family by uh. 1344 01:27:40.279 --> 01:27:44.680 And I heard us in the like in Africa where 1345 01:27:44.720 --> 01:27:47.920 they have these micro loans and like, yeah, men don't 1346 01:27:48.000 --> 01:27:50.800 qualify for them. It's like mainly given to women. So 1347 01:27:50.840 --> 01:27:53.720 it's like you take the economic power, you turn it 1348 01:27:53.840 --> 01:27:57.479 over to the women. Yeah, it was a great Yeah, 1349 01:27:57.640 --> 01:28:01.359 And uh so, uh, I understanding full well what the 1350 01:28:01.439 --> 01:28:07.800 overall fallout from all that which they're realizing it now, 1351 01:28:07.960 --> 01:28:12.159 But you know, I mean it's it's it's showing itself now. 1352 01:28:12.199 --> 01:28:17.239 But yeah, see they totally understand that up front. And 1353 01:28:17.279 --> 01:28:20.439 that's to break apart, the family break and to destroy 1354 01:28:20.520 --> 01:28:25.960 the traditional culture and structure, social structure. 1355 01:28:26.479 --> 01:28:29.720 Yes, everything has to be melded into this generic absolute, 1356 01:28:29.840 --> 01:28:34.960 this pomanism that Huxley talked about. Here's JB. Watson describing 1357 01:28:34.960 --> 01:28:39.079 his behaviorism. He says, in one sweeping assumption after another, 1358 01:28:39.359 --> 01:28:42.600 the behaviorist throws out the concept of both mind and 1359 01:28:42.640 --> 01:28:46.439 consciousness and calls them carryovers from the church dogma of 1360 01:28:46.479 --> 01:28:51.039 the Middle Ages. The behaviorists thinks that the soul is 1361 01:28:51.079 --> 01:28:54.600 a masquerade. The behaviorist finds no mind in his laboratory. 1362 01:28:54.920 --> 01:28:58.000 He sees it nowhere in his subject. If the behaviorists 1363 01:28:58.039 --> 01:29:00.479 are right in their contention that there is no mind 1364 01:29:00.520 --> 01:29:04.439 body problem, then it is because there is no mind, 1365 01:29:05.479 --> 01:29:08.159 there can be no such thing as consciousness or an 1366 01:29:08.239 --> 01:29:15.600 unconscious And here's the best quote. He says. Thus, prediction 1367 01:29:15.760 --> 01:29:19.279 and control are the essence of the heaviourism. He says, 1368 01:29:19.319 --> 01:29:25.640 give me a child and my world, give me the 1369 01:29:25.680 --> 01:29:27.920 baby and my world to bring it up, and I 1370 01:29:27.960 --> 01:29:30.880 will make it crawl and walk, I will make it climb, 1371 01:29:30.920 --> 01:29:34.039 and I will make its hands, make use of its hands, 1372 01:29:34.039 --> 01:29:36.840 and constructing buildings of stone or wood. I will make 1373 01:29:36.880 --> 01:29:39.319 it a thief, a gunman, or a dope feed I 1374 01:29:39.399 --> 01:29:42.880 will build you, make him death and mute. I will 1375 01:29:42.880 --> 01:29:50.319 build you a helen Keller. Stimulus and response, he says, 1376 01:29:50.920 --> 01:29:53.960 is everything. And that's of course, as many people have 1377 01:29:54.000 --> 01:29:56.119 pointed out, when you go to public school, you hear 1378 01:29:56.239 --> 01:29:58.880 the dog bells that ring in between the classes. 1379 01:30:00.319 --> 01:30:06.760 Uh. Yeah, I've talked about this with I. Uh noticed 1380 01:30:06.880 --> 01:30:13.359 the U This is uh, this is a while back. 1381 01:30:14.079 --> 01:30:17.880 This this particular individual like their children are you know, 1382 01:30:17.880 --> 01:30:21.319 of course going to public school, and one of their 1383 01:30:21.399 --> 01:30:24.279 children come back with this like red stamp on their 1384 01:30:24.319 --> 01:30:28.880 hand and they was crying, like the child was like 1385 01:30:29.119 --> 01:30:33.199 bawling his eyes out, and I was like, what's going on? 1386 01:30:33.359 --> 01:30:35.920 I was like, this is this is odd? And it's 1387 01:30:35.960 --> 01:30:40.359 oh he got a bad stamp or something like that, 1388 01:30:40.479 --> 01:30:45.000 like you like, they'll the teacher put the stamp on 1389 01:30:45.039 --> 01:30:47.079 his hand. It was like a red stamp of some 1390 01:30:47.119 --> 01:30:50.760 sort to identify that he had done something wrong in 1391 01:30:50.800 --> 01:30:53.319 school and he had to go around with his red 1392 01:30:53.399 --> 01:30:56.640 stamp and I was like, wow, freaking scarlet letter and 1393 01:30:56.680 --> 01:31:02.680 all this shit. Yeah, it's like, holy crap, man. I mean, 1394 01:31:03.039 --> 01:31:07.079 I just I was a speechless. I was like, what 1395 01:31:07.880 --> 01:31:11.600 you'll Yeah, oh, I was just saying like his dad 1396 01:31:11.800 --> 01:31:13.520 didn't think anything of it. He thought it was kind 1397 01:31:13.520 --> 01:31:14.199 of numorous. 1398 01:31:14.800 --> 01:31:15.560 That's ridiculous. 1399 01:31:15.520 --> 01:31:15.880 Wow. 1400 01:31:17.319 --> 01:31:19.640 The author has an insightful and this his book was 1401 01:31:19.640 --> 01:31:22.920 written back in nineteen sixty three, predicting what would happen 1402 01:31:23.000 --> 01:31:28.319 with American education system. And he says, Watson's goals now, 1403 01:31:28.359 --> 01:31:32.840 this is JB. Watson. The behaviors are the goals of 1404 01:31:32.880 --> 01:31:37.560 science today. Science aims at the creation of life itself 1405 01:31:37.720 --> 01:31:42.399 through biochemistry. It aims at the creation of minds through machines, 1406 01:31:42.960 --> 01:31:45.600 and it aims at the reconditioning of minds by medication 1407 01:31:45.760 --> 01:31:50.000 and drugs capable of controlling and remaking man. Science also 1408 01:31:50.039 --> 01:31:53.439 aims at total social engineering and control through the state. 1409 01:31:54.119 --> 01:31:56.520 It has even been proposed that man will one day 1410 01:31:56.560 --> 01:32:00.000 be wired at birth for permanent control through electrical impulse. 1411 01:32:00.000 --> 01:32:02.239 This was written back in nineteen sixty three. 1412 01:32:03.119 --> 01:32:03.239 Mm. 1413 01:32:05.199 --> 01:32:15.800 Yeah, yeah, that is seems like we're moving forward into 1414 01:32:15.840 --> 01:32:20.960 that with the advent of the smartphone now and uh 1415 01:32:22.159 --> 01:32:25.600 so it's sort of this device that is like for 1416 01:32:25.680 --> 01:32:29.439 so many people, it's it's it's like an extension of 1417 01:32:29.479 --> 01:32:33.399 their you know, personhood. So it's something that's always with them, 1418 01:32:33.680 --> 01:32:39.880 always referring to it, always interacting with it, and with 1419 01:32:39.880 --> 01:32:42.439 with with that in mind, which is you just got 1420 01:32:42.439 --> 01:32:46.239 through reading and then what you hear about these you 1421 01:32:46.279 --> 01:32:51.640 know tech these techno technology technological or technolroti or these 1422 01:32:51.960 --> 01:32:56.319 technologically leaks stuff that are talking about, Yeah, you know, 1423 01:32:56.840 --> 01:33:00.960 putting microchips in themselves, that's already happening already. Have these 1424 01:33:01.319 --> 01:33:06.920 kits that you can order online to self inject an 1425 01:33:07.039 --> 01:33:09.479 RFID tag so that you can you know, open your 1426 01:33:09.479 --> 01:33:11.920 doors without having to you know, drag your keys out 1427 01:33:11.920 --> 01:33:14.960 of your pocket and all that other great stuff. And 1428 01:33:15.359 --> 01:33:21.520 uh yeah, so how long does this this particular phase 1429 01:33:21.640 --> 01:33:26.399 have to have to be in play before you start 1430 01:33:26.399 --> 01:33:30.359 seeing the uh the implant that the neural implant that 1431 01:33:30.520 --> 01:33:34.159 directly interfaces with the brain so that you don't have 1432 01:33:34.199 --> 01:33:37.079 to fumble around with this piece of external equipment. 1433 01:33:42.359 --> 01:33:45.520 Yeah, I would just had a conversation with my girlfriend then, 1434 01:33:45.520 --> 01:33:49.279 not about that. How soon is it going to be 1435 01:33:49.279 --> 01:33:52.079 before we start seeing this. There was an article yesterday 1436 01:33:52.319 --> 01:33:56.640 about Facebook is actually going to be and I was 1437 01:33:56.680 --> 01:33:59.319 on a boiler room conversation and somebody brought this up 1438 01:34:00.479 --> 01:34:03.039 a few months ago. I didn't know this, but apparently 1439 01:34:03.880 --> 01:34:07.600 Facebook is going to be one of the leading means 1440 01:34:07.680 --> 01:34:11.239 by which virtual reality is going to be implemented, believe 1441 01:34:11.279 --> 01:34:13.439 it or not, which I guess kind of makes sense 1442 01:34:13.520 --> 01:34:16.600 because there's like a billion people on Facebook, and what 1443 01:34:16.640 --> 01:34:21.600 they're gonna do is they're gonna start implementing virtual reality 1444 01:34:21.640 --> 01:34:25.600 through chat. Right, So what's gonna happen is you're gonna 1445 01:34:25.640 --> 01:34:28.319 go in a chat room and everybody's gonna put their 1446 01:34:28.359 --> 01:34:31.520 goggles on, and you're gonna be chatting with your buddies, 1447 01:34:31.840 --> 01:34:34.399 you know, in this virtual chat room, and you know, 1448 01:34:34.439 --> 01:34:37.079 you might be Marilyn Monroe, and then I guess somebody 1449 01:34:37.119 --> 01:34:40.920 will be Elvis, and then somebody will be a Pokemon. 1450 01:34:41.600 --> 01:34:43.640 Or yeah, Lammy from Oterhead or. 1451 01:34:43.520 --> 01:34:47.359 Whatever Otorhead and Johnny Depp and yeah, and so that's 1452 01:34:47.399 --> 01:34:52.159 what's apparently coming. And uh, there was a big mainstream 1453 01:34:52.239 --> 01:34:57.439 article about Facebook doing this. Trying to remember the title 1454 01:34:57.439 --> 01:35:00.840 of the article. Facebook's latest virtual reality. The innovation is 1455 01:35:00.880 --> 01:35:01.920 a big deal is. 1456 01:35:01.920 --> 01:35:07.479 A totally hard Well, Jay, this will certainly have applications 1457 01:35:07.520 --> 01:35:13.960 towards education. I'm sure right, we know how important. 1458 01:35:14.479 --> 01:35:18.239 Will be able to be taught directly. Uh, we'll be 1459 01:35:18.279 --> 01:35:20.720 able to stand directly at the feet of the great 1460 01:35:20.760 --> 01:35:26.319 scientists who discovered the bat people on the moon, and 1461 01:35:26.359 --> 01:35:29.000 we'll be able to look in virtual telescopes and we'll 1462 01:35:29.039 --> 01:35:32.520 see the bat people, the little CGI sixteen bit bat 1463 01:35:32.560 --> 01:35:34.039 people dancing around the moon. 1464 01:35:36.079 --> 01:35:40.039 To shoot them with little Cansas little First, you'll. 1465 01:35:39.880 --> 01:35:42.319 Have a duck Hunter. You'll have the gun from Nintendo 1466 01:35:42.439 --> 01:35:46.560 Duck Hunt that you can but you'll have to but 1467 01:35:46.800 --> 01:35:49.359 it's you'll have to use the reflector that they use 1468 01:35:49.439 --> 01:35:52.560 to balance signals that light off the moon because you've 1469 01:35:52.520 --> 01:35:53.640 got to get in there. 1470 01:35:55.640 --> 01:36:00.000 It's like an extra bonus points for ricocheting and off 1471 01:36:00.079 --> 01:36:03.840 the reflector to the bath hut or whatever you're trying 1472 01:36:03.840 --> 01:36:04.279 to blow up. 1473 01:36:05.960 --> 01:36:10.239 Yeah, so you've got oculus Oculus rift and then this 1474 01:36:10.479 --> 01:36:14.560 whatever this Facebook virtual thing is. Maybe that's oculus. I 1475 01:36:14.600 --> 01:36:16.079 can't remember, but. 1476 01:36:16.119 --> 01:36:20.680 Yeah, I don't know about that being something that I 1477 01:36:20.760 --> 01:36:24.520 keep hearing because I've heard I've heard about this years ago, right, 1478 01:36:24.520 --> 01:36:27.439 I mean, yeah, and I don't I don't know if 1479 01:36:27.479 --> 01:36:30.319 they're ever going to overcome the motion sickness thing, because 1480 01:36:30.399 --> 01:36:33.119 people are still talking about that. But this Oculus rift 1481 01:36:33.119 --> 01:36:36.039 they said, yeah, I know, it's it's fantastic, It's wonderful. 1482 01:36:36.399 --> 01:36:39.159 You get on it for like ten minutes, max. Because 1483 01:36:39.199 --> 01:36:41.000 after ten minutes, you're like, you got to run to 1484 01:36:41.039 --> 01:36:43.680 the toilet. You're going to put your lunch in there, 1485 01:36:43.760 --> 01:36:48.000 you know, because it makes people motion sick. Oh yeah, 1486 01:36:48.560 --> 01:36:49.520 I didn't know what around it. 1487 01:36:49.760 --> 01:36:52.039 I thought you were going to say, you know, they've 1488 01:36:52.079 --> 01:36:54.439 been talking about virtual reality since the eighties and it's 1489 01:36:54.479 --> 01:36:55.279 not going to be here. 1490 01:36:56.880 --> 01:36:58.680 Well, they had it. They had it in the nineties. 1491 01:36:58.760 --> 01:37:01.760 They had it. I remember it at some uh some 1492 01:37:02.439 --> 01:37:05.279 electronic show or something. I went two years ago. They 1493 01:37:05.279 --> 01:37:08.520 had they had a demonstration of it. 1494 01:37:08.560 --> 01:37:12.640 In the growing up in San Diego, we used to 1495 01:37:12.680 --> 01:37:17.840 go to the mall and they had a VR demonstrations 1496 01:37:17.840 --> 01:37:19.279 in the mall that you could look in the thing. 1497 01:37:19.359 --> 01:37:20.880 I did it to you. You can look in the thing 1498 01:37:20.880 --> 01:37:24.199 and it's real cheese cheese ball max bedroom install graphics 1499 01:37:24.239 --> 01:37:27.399 back then. But but yeah, that's a great point. I 1500 01:37:27.399 --> 01:37:31.399 don't see how this would function that. You know, everybody's 1501 01:37:31.439 --> 01:37:35.560 going to be puking. Maybe they'll maybe they'll sell everybody 1502 01:37:35.600 --> 01:37:37.680 a pharmaceutical that that you. 1503 01:37:37.720 --> 01:37:40.039 Take they don't, I don't know. Or maybe you have 1504 01:37:40.159 --> 01:37:42.159 to go get surgery or something, and I guess people 1505 01:37:42.199 --> 01:37:45.439 will go get their cochlea removed or something like that 1506 01:37:45.520 --> 01:37:49.119 so they don't, or get an artificial one put in, 1507 01:37:50.039 --> 01:37:52.439 or maybe like a bypass switch so you can switch 1508 01:37:52.479 --> 01:37:56.159 off your cochlear or your inner ear so you don't 1509 01:37:56.159 --> 01:37:58.159 get You could just like turn it off and on 1510 01:37:58.239 --> 01:38:00.720 some switch they'll put on you. I don't know. How 1511 01:38:00.720 --> 01:38:03.279 are they going to get around that? I don't It's 1512 01:38:03.399 --> 01:38:07.560 it seems like an insurmountable obstacle to this because it 1513 01:38:07.560 --> 01:38:09.760 would already be a thing. I think, I believe if 1514 01:38:09.760 --> 01:38:10.640 it wasn't for that. 1515 01:38:11.079 --> 01:38:15.319 Well, this we'll probably tie into the recent trend of 1516 01:38:15.439 --> 01:38:20.319 the online education. Right. So, now, even back when I 1517 01:38:20.359 --> 01:38:24.279 was doing undergrad my university started implementing this thing where, oh, 1518 01:38:24.279 --> 01:38:27.079 you don't have to come to class anymore. We're doing 1519 01:38:27.119 --> 01:38:30.119 all these online classes and I don't I didn't ever 1520 01:38:30.199 --> 01:38:31.880 take any of them because it gets on my nerves 1521 01:38:31.920 --> 01:38:35.439 done it that way. But but this is getting really 1522 01:38:35.439 --> 01:38:38.199 big now where it's more and more commonplace to have 1523 01:38:38.319 --> 01:38:43.359 your whole course at college just online. And I think 1524 01:38:43.399 --> 01:38:46.319 that that's going to continue to grow and so maybe 1525 01:38:46.359 --> 01:38:49.840 they'll implement you know, VR through that. But yeah, like 1526 01:38:49.880 --> 01:38:52.800 you said, I don't know how that's gonna I guess 1527 01:38:52.840 --> 01:38:54.600 you have to take a bunch of drama meine every day. 1528 01:38:54.640 --> 01:38:55.680 I don't know what you do. 1529 01:38:56.039 --> 01:38:57.439 Yeah, just dose up. 1530 01:38:57.720 --> 01:38:58.039 I don't. 1531 01:38:58.119 --> 01:39:03.239 Yeah, what are you going to do to uh to 1532 01:39:03.279 --> 01:39:06.239 get around that? Yeah, I don't. I don't know what 1533 01:39:06.439 --> 01:39:10.439 the uh the plant. I guess they released this Oculus 1534 01:39:10.520 --> 01:39:14.600 rift thing and you could buy one now and uh, 1535 01:39:15.199 --> 01:39:18.119 but you know, people are still complaining about the motion 1536 01:39:18.279 --> 01:39:23.359 sickness issue on this thing, and uh, you know you're 1537 01:39:23.399 --> 01:39:26.760 hearing all this stuff talked about with Microsoft is in 1538 01:39:26.880 --> 01:39:29.399 on it, Facebook's talking about it and all these different 1539 01:39:29.560 --> 01:39:34.560 big companies or Google of course, and this augmented reality, 1540 01:39:34.600 --> 01:39:38.359 this virtual reality stuff. But uh, they seem to like 1541 01:39:38.439 --> 01:39:42.880 downplay the whole motion sickness issue like it's like it's 1542 01:39:43.079 --> 01:39:48.439 no big thing. But it's it just seems like, uh, 1543 01:39:48.600 --> 01:39:55.960 maybe the one big saving, one big saving hang up 1544 01:39:55.960 --> 01:39:58.560 on that thing is the is the fact that just 1545 01:39:58.720 --> 01:40:02.279 people can't adapt to that. You know, we could adapt 1546 01:40:02.279 --> 01:40:05.079 to everything, but we just can't adapt to being put 1547 01:40:05.119 --> 01:40:10.039 in these artificial environments like that because we just something 1548 01:40:10.039 --> 01:40:13.760 else has to come along to deal with that. 1549 01:40:14.439 --> 01:40:18.319 Well, you know, I wonder it seems like I'm just 1550 01:40:18.359 --> 01:40:22.840 speculating here, but younger persons that play video games all 1551 01:40:22.880 --> 01:40:25.319 the time I'm talking about, like the people who sit 1552 01:40:25.399 --> 01:40:29.479 and play Halo all day, they seem to not be 1553 01:40:29.560 --> 01:40:34.079 as affected by this, And oh really, I can't do that, 1554 01:40:34.119 --> 01:40:35.920 Like I if I tried to play one of those 1555 01:40:36.000 --> 01:40:38.239 like Halo or something like that for more than ten minutes, 1556 01:40:38.279 --> 01:40:38.920 I get sick. 1557 01:40:40.159 --> 01:40:40.680 Yeah. 1558 01:40:40.720 --> 01:40:43.279 So I wonder if the thinking isn't oh, you know, 1559 01:40:43.319 --> 01:40:45.560 the younger generations are going to be who's doing this, 1560 01:40:45.720 --> 01:40:47.359 and you know they're going to adapt to it, and 1561 01:40:49.079 --> 01:40:50.800 microevolution they're going to adapt to. 1562 01:40:50.760 --> 01:40:51.239 It, right. 1563 01:40:53.399 --> 01:40:59.279 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't think that's even possible 1564 01:40:59.600 --> 01:41:03.239 even you know, it's a but uh yeah, it seems 1565 01:41:03.279 --> 01:41:04.279 like no. 1566 01:41:04.279 --> 01:41:07.359 Now, Chris, if you understood evolution, you would know that 1567 01:41:08.199 --> 01:41:11.560 if we if we work at it and just keep 1568 01:41:11.600 --> 01:41:16.399 at it, Uh, the virtual reality goggles will eventually just 1569 01:41:16.520 --> 01:41:20.279 meld into our skin and bone and they will become 1570 01:41:20.319 --> 01:41:23.960 a feature of our cranium and that's just how evolution works. 1571 01:41:24.000 --> 01:41:29.159 Don't understand evolution will adapt to it. Man, don't you 1572 01:41:29.199 --> 01:41:30.000 understand evolution? 1573 01:41:31.319 --> 01:41:37.640 I guess I don't. I I I uh, yeah, I 1574 01:41:37.680 --> 01:41:38.680 think that is. 1575 01:41:40.520 --> 01:41:46.000 Like it it It seems like because because i'm I'm 1576 01:41:46.079 --> 01:41:50.760 I'm of the school thought that, uh, you know, none 1577 01:41:50.840 --> 01:41:54.840 of these plans, these long range plans are a given. 1578 01:41:55.479 --> 01:41:59.960 You know, just because they have the means to carry 1579 01:42:00.119 --> 01:42:05.960 this stuff out, you know, doesn't mean it's gonna be successful. 1580 01:42:07.119 --> 01:42:10.640 And what evidence do we have available to us that 1581 01:42:10.840 --> 01:42:12.880 all of this stuff will go through as planned? 1582 01:42:13.199 --> 01:42:13.880 That's true? 1583 01:42:14.199 --> 01:42:16.960 Yeah, I mean you listen to like somebody like Alan Watt, 1584 01:42:17.039 --> 01:42:19.640 and it's like, uh, he's going to tell you that 1585 01:42:19.680 --> 01:42:22.199 it's it's it's pretty much a done deal, that it's 1586 01:42:22.199 --> 01:42:25.079 a must be and then it's gonna it's it's gonna 1587 01:42:25.680 --> 01:42:28.479 it's gonna happen. But I'm not so sure about that. 1588 01:42:28.920 --> 01:42:35.039 It's I think that the human form as it is 1589 01:42:35.199 --> 01:42:40.239 is such so much more dynamic and resilient, and uh, 1590 01:42:40.399 --> 01:42:43.359 then then you know credit is given to it, like 1591 01:42:43.399 --> 01:42:48.680 the human mind, the human uh, the human being itself. 1592 01:42:49.079 --> 01:42:50.640 Hi, folks, I'm. 1593 01:42:52.000 --> 01:42:55.920 And I'm here to tell you that there's no hope 1594 01:42:56.800 --> 01:43:00.680 big boys, big boys planned it for a long time. 1595 01:43:00.840 --> 01:43:12.199 The big boys, big boys, the bankers, co Quigleys. I'm 1596 01:43:12.199 --> 01:43:15.479 Alan Woo prosidor Doom. 1597 01:43:15.680 --> 01:43:18.520 Anyway, that's pretty good. 1598 01:43:19.039 --> 01:43:22.199 I don't know, it needs need some work, I guess 1599 01:43:22.359 --> 01:43:28.960 the I have a comment for you, Chris. This is 1600 01:43:29.319 --> 01:43:33.800 some dude. Adam Walsh commented on your post that I 1601 01:43:33.880 --> 01:43:39.119 put up on my site where you deconstructed the Dawkinites 1602 01:43:39.359 --> 01:43:44.640 on that YouTube show, and I responded to this person, 1603 01:43:44.840 --> 01:43:46.359 but I thought you might want to respond to him 1604 01:43:46.359 --> 01:43:49.119 as well, and he says a good example of evolution 1605 01:43:49.960 --> 01:43:53.960 for you, doubting Thomas's would be the Atlantic tom cod 1606 01:43:54.239 --> 01:43:57.760 that has evolved to survive in the heavily polluted Hudson River. 1607 01:43:58.560 --> 01:44:02.279 Even rats that have become immune to poison and which 1608 01:44:02.319 --> 01:44:05.319 are bigger because of the fatty junk food thrown in 1609 01:44:05.359 --> 01:44:10.119 the streets by Slavs. There are fish that can There 1610 01:44:10.159 --> 01:44:13.680 are fish that can walk. I suppose Chris from Hoastbusters 1611 01:44:13.680 --> 01:44:18.119 would say the Australian walking perch is only claiming it 1612 01:44:18.159 --> 01:44:20.479 can survive up to six days on dry land. 1613 01:44:23.079 --> 01:44:27.800 Well, there's the bacteria that's been observed to develop the 1614 01:44:27.840 --> 01:44:34.079 ability to digest nylon. There's changes in bacteria that where 1615 01:44:34.199 --> 01:44:40.720 they had previously no no observable ability to digest like citrate, 1616 01:44:41.159 --> 01:44:44.520 and then they didn't been observed to be able to 1617 01:44:44.760 --> 01:44:53.239 digest sit trate butchs there you go. Yeah, and then Jay, 1618 01:44:53.239 --> 01:44:56.399 are you noticing any gray hairs on your head? I do, 1619 01:44:59.000 --> 01:45:02.279 So that's biological change over time. That's Darwin. So that's 1620 01:45:02.359 --> 01:45:08.439 proof too. Uh. I got a scab on my leg. 1621 01:45:08.520 --> 01:45:11.520 I picked it and it bled, so that blood was 1622 01:45:11.640 --> 01:45:14.039 inside my leg and then it's on the outside. So 1623 01:45:14.079 --> 01:45:19.560 that's transfer biological biological change over time because the scab healed, 1624 01:45:19.600 --> 01:45:20.359 So that's Darwin. 1625 01:45:21.439 --> 01:45:22.079 Uh. 1626 01:45:22.159 --> 01:45:24.640 Yeah, it's all proof, man, It's all all of it's proof. 1627 01:45:25.840 --> 01:45:29.720 But uh well, if you think about it for a minute, 1628 01:45:31.479 --> 01:45:37.359 you think about domestic the domestication of animals and they bred. 1629 01:45:37.640 --> 01:45:40.960 Uh let's take one breed of dog for instance, like 1630 01:45:41.000 --> 01:45:46.159 the uh what are those dogs that they used to 1631 01:45:46.159 --> 01:45:48.359 to hunt foxes or like a beagle or something, you know, 1632 01:45:48.439 --> 01:45:52.600 like they use the bread to hunt fox that can 1633 01:45:52.640 --> 01:45:55.319 get down in the foxhole has shorter legs as the shorter, 1634 01:45:55.479 --> 01:46:00.920 stumpier body has you know, the good uh uh broadcasts 1635 01:46:00.960 --> 01:46:04.279 so that it can run keep up with the keep 1636 01:46:04.359 --> 01:46:08.479 up with the the the hunters, keep up with the clocks. 1637 01:46:09.840 --> 01:46:13.800 So that so that is that that creature is has 1638 01:46:13.880 --> 01:46:19.239 adapted to that those requirements as far as its usefulness 1639 01:46:19.279 --> 01:46:21.840 as a domesticated animal. But that's see, that's something that 1640 01:46:21.960 --> 01:46:28.520 was observed ages before Darwin, right exactly, So how does 1641 01:46:28.520 --> 01:46:30.760 that happen? Jay? I mean, how does that? How do 1642 01:46:30.800 --> 01:46:34.119 you go from a wolf like creature to a beagle? 1643 01:46:34.960 --> 01:46:39.760 Yeah, well, that's how. The thing is that everyone uses 1644 01:46:39.800 --> 01:46:44.600 the taxonomy of species. The Darwinian theorists believe that species 1645 01:46:44.720 --> 01:46:47.920 is not a real property. It's just a term that's 1646 01:46:48.039 --> 01:46:50.359 used and it's all completely malleable. 1647 01:46:51.039 --> 01:46:52.640 Uh so, yeah, it is right. 1648 01:46:53.199 --> 01:46:57.640 But but the problem is that, first of all, nobody 1649 01:46:57.680 --> 01:47:04.000 who rejects that, I'm aware, rejects evolutionary theory, denies micro 1650 01:47:04.079 --> 01:47:07.880 evolution or adaptation. Everyone believes in adaptation, and as you said, 1651 01:47:08.520 --> 01:47:11.640 it was known and believed far before Darwin. People have 1652 01:47:11.720 --> 01:47:16.039 bred dogs, as you said, for for a long long time. 1653 01:47:16.760 --> 01:47:19.880 But that has nothing to do with the idea of 1654 01:47:20.159 --> 01:47:24.039 transformism as it's called in darwin theory. The older the 1655 01:47:24.039 --> 01:47:27.880 older term for that, the idea that you get one 1656 01:47:27.960 --> 01:47:32.319 species morphing into a completely different species. Right. So when 1657 01:47:32.319 --> 01:47:34.039 we look at a dog and a wolf, I mean 1658 01:47:34.039 --> 01:47:38.079 they're they're pretty much in that same kind or category, right, 1659 01:47:38.760 --> 01:47:40.840 But that is not the same thing as a horse 1660 01:47:41.039 --> 01:47:47.520 or snake, right, or you know different creatures different you know, 1661 01:47:47.720 --> 01:47:54.319 cold blooded, warm blooded, right, omnivores and arbivores. So what 1662 01:47:54.319 --> 01:47:55.640 were you gonna say? 1663 01:47:56.399 --> 01:47:59.479 No, I was just gonna say that. Well, like the 1664 01:47:59.479 --> 01:48:02.439 example I pointed out earlier about the bacteria that was 1665 01:48:02.479 --> 01:48:10.279 observed to develop this ability to digest citrate, right, Okay. 1666 01:48:09.720 --> 01:48:12.640 People with darker skin living near the tropics. 1667 01:48:12.479 --> 01:48:15.880 Right, yeah, So what is that? What? What are we 1668 01:48:15.960 --> 01:48:19.079 looking at when we make those observations or the scientists 1669 01:48:19.079 --> 01:48:22.399 makes those observations, What are they looking at? Okay? What 1670 01:48:22.399 --> 01:48:26.279 what is going on at the at the nuts and 1671 01:48:26.319 --> 01:48:31.000 bolts level, the the the DNA, the molecule like or 1672 01:48:31.199 --> 01:48:38.319 or I were invoking genetics? You know, the bacteria had 1673 01:48:38.359 --> 01:48:41.800 that ability, but it was a latent ability. It wasn't 1674 01:48:41.800 --> 01:48:47.880 being expressed in its morphology until certain environmental conditions were 1675 01:48:47.960 --> 01:48:51.640 it was subjected to triggered and triggered it and then 1676 01:48:51.880 --> 01:48:56.720 it's it's this dynamic change within the organism. But it 1677 01:48:56.880 --> 01:49:03.079 represents something that already exists within the genetic code of 1678 01:49:03.119 --> 01:49:06.199 that organism. Do not thing with all dog changes that 1679 01:49:06.239 --> 01:49:08.680 you observe, same thing with all horse changes you observe 1680 01:49:08.760 --> 01:49:12.600 from breeding, and all that all that potential already existed. 1681 01:49:13.119 --> 01:49:17.640 You don't have the introduction of a completely new DNA 1682 01:49:17.800 --> 01:49:20.359 or the DNA of a different No. 1683 01:49:21.239 --> 01:49:26.800 It's not a slow gradual shifting of molecules that resulted 1684 01:49:27.000 --> 01:49:29.640 in a new trait or a new ability. That's not 1685 01:49:29.680 --> 01:49:33.039 what you're looking at. But that's what Darwinism requires. Yes, 1686 01:49:33.359 --> 01:49:35.920 but they always conflate the two and they'll show you, 1687 01:49:35.920 --> 01:49:38.439 like an example, the fish now can survive in an 1688 01:49:38.520 --> 01:49:43.720 environment where it couldn't survive before. Well, that's demonstrating the 1689 01:49:44.399 --> 01:49:50.800 adaptability of that organism based on the genome. That it 1690 01:49:51.840 --> 01:49:54.199 an ability of that genome to do what it needed 1691 01:49:54.199 --> 01:49:57.079 to do to adapt to that environment that already existed. 1692 01:49:57.159 --> 01:50:00.800 And then that the changes in the environment it triggered 1693 01:50:01.439 --> 01:50:04.079 the expression of those genes, or a lot of times 1694 01:50:04.079 --> 01:50:09.039 it's the non expression of the genes, like with in 1695 01:50:09.039 --> 01:50:12.159 the case with dogs having short hair or no hair, 1696 01:50:12.279 --> 01:50:15.439 you know it's a it's those genes for the hair 1697 01:50:15.560 --> 01:50:18.319 the fur are not being an expressed So that's not 1698 01:50:18.520 --> 01:50:22.479 an addition of new traits that would lead to if 1699 01:50:22.479 --> 01:50:26.000 you accumulate an accumulative effect over time, that would lead 1700 01:50:26.039 --> 01:50:30.239 to a totally new organism. That's not what you're looking at. 1701 01:50:30.239 --> 01:50:35.479 You're looking at the h the inherent variitability that's already 1702 01:50:35.520 --> 01:50:38.319 present within that organism. 1703 01:50:38.680 --> 01:50:43.680 Right, for the Darwinian idea to be plausible, I think 1704 01:50:43.720 --> 01:50:48.439 you would need the potentiality in every DNA sequence for 1705 01:50:48.560 --> 01:50:52.880 every single animal. Right and if if I'm going to 1706 01:50:52.880 --> 01:50:57.680 be able to swim underwater, if I'm going to develop gills, 1707 01:50:58.439 --> 01:51:02.359 then the any sequencing that the fish has should be 1708 01:51:02.359 --> 01:51:05.600 present in me. But you're not going to get that right. 1709 01:51:07.640 --> 01:51:13.079 Right, Well, yeah, because not there. Yeah, it doesn't you 1710 01:51:13.119 --> 01:51:15.760 don't have it. It doesn't exist. I mean there there's 1711 01:51:16.000 --> 01:51:18.159 a lot of genetic well, I mean we see that 1712 01:51:18.239 --> 01:51:24.119 with you know, especially with stuff you know we're most 1713 01:51:24.119 --> 01:51:28.039 familiar with, like the domesticated dog, cats. You know, how 1714 01:51:28.079 --> 01:51:31.840 long do you have to breed dogs? Like if they've 1715 01:51:31.880 --> 01:51:36.520 done experiments on the silver fox, within ten years, they 1716 01:51:36.520 --> 01:51:43.800 were able to get a silver fox to exhibit traits 1717 01:51:43.840 --> 01:51:49.479 and behavior very very similar to the domesticated dog. So 1718 01:51:50.000 --> 01:51:57.359 by by selectively breeding the foxes that exhibited more docile 1719 01:51:58.159 --> 01:52:02.800 tendencies and within ten years, yeah, they were already starting 1720 01:52:02.800 --> 01:52:12.079 to get a domesticated dog like creature. But it is 1721 01:52:12.119 --> 01:52:17.600 that an example of Darwinism. Now, we're always told that 1722 01:52:17.960 --> 01:52:23.399 Darwinism takes long ages of time, and then it's the 1723 01:52:23.479 --> 01:52:32.119 accumulation of mutations that result in all these new life forms, right, right, 1724 01:52:32.840 --> 01:52:40.199 So long ages of time can also mean ten years. Well, 1725 01:52:40.560 --> 01:52:41.640 it's a long age of time. 1726 01:52:42.399 --> 01:52:45.800 Another point too, is if you think about what we 1727 01:52:45.840 --> 01:52:52.319 should see given Darwinism, we should see billions of skeletal 1728 01:52:52.399 --> 01:52:55.960 remains and fossils everywhere. We should literally be drowning in these. 1729 01:52:56.279 --> 01:52:59.279 You know, you can't walk out your door without you know, 1730 01:52:59.359 --> 01:53:04.600 shooting away four feet of skeletal remains, because if you 1731 01:53:04.640 --> 01:53:09.479 think about it, there would be billions of variations of 1732 01:53:09.520 --> 01:53:11.439 all the animals that have ever existed, right all the 1733 01:53:11.479 --> 01:53:15.520 way back four point five billion years ago, right, of 1734 01:53:15.560 --> 01:53:20.239 these transitions. Right, So everybody makes the transitionary fossil argument, 1735 01:53:20.279 --> 01:53:23.279 but I'm making a different point that they should actually 1736 01:53:23.279 --> 01:53:28.520 be everywhere because there would be billions of species right 1737 01:53:28.640 --> 01:53:32.399 with billions of transitions, excuse me, billions of numbers within 1738 01:53:32.439 --> 01:53:37.479 the species of billions of stages of transitions and there's 1739 01:53:37.520 --> 01:53:42.239 not anything but a few CGI models and these invented 1740 01:53:42.920 --> 01:53:45.159 interpretations that they give to bones that are found. 1741 01:53:46.720 --> 01:53:50.119 Yeah, like the tiktolic, like they'll point to that is 1742 01:53:50.159 --> 01:53:53.680 like lizardfish. You know, it's like it's part lizard, part 1743 01:53:53.760 --> 01:53:57.119 fish or whatever they're saying that it is. But if 1744 01:53:57.199 --> 01:54:00.920 you were to look at that to say you found 1745 01:54:00.960 --> 01:54:03.720 it at a rummage sale or something like in a 1746 01:54:03.760 --> 01:54:06.520 cardboard box, it's like, oh, what's this And it's like, 1747 01:54:06.760 --> 01:54:09.079 I don't know, I found it in my backyard. It's 1748 01:54:09.119 --> 01:54:11.000 like some kind of skeleton and it kind of looks 1749 01:54:11.000 --> 01:54:12.399 like fossil if that was kind of cool, so I 1750 01:54:12.600 --> 01:54:15.359 kind of keep it. You have it for five bucks 1751 01:54:15.439 --> 01:54:18.680 or whatever. But it's exact same thing that you see 1752 01:54:19.239 --> 01:54:22.199 presented in museums and stuff like that. But let's say 1753 01:54:23.039 --> 01:54:25.800 outside of that context, you never heard of tiktolic, you 1754 01:54:25.880 --> 01:54:29.079 never heard of evolution. What would you do with that 1755 01:54:29.199 --> 01:54:32.600 set of bones? Would it change your belief your worldview 1756 01:54:32.880 --> 01:54:37.479 just on just the prema facie evidence of those bones, No, 1757 01:54:37.600 --> 01:54:40.479 it absolutely would not. Now, outside of the context of 1758 01:54:40.640 --> 01:54:44.840 modern science, it has absolutely no meaning whatsoever. Yeah, only 1759 01:54:44.920 --> 01:54:46.279 interpretation put on it that. 1760 01:54:46.560 --> 01:54:50.239 You'd say it's a fish or something similar, or maybe 1761 01:54:50.239 --> 01:54:55.159 somebody dropped a bunch of bones that were fish and animals. Yeah, 1762 01:54:55.399 --> 01:54:57.880 like one hundred years ago, some guy, a hunter, you know, 1763 01:54:57.960 --> 01:55:00.359 like dropped in old bag of bones or some and 1764 01:55:00.359 --> 01:55:03.359 then one hundred years later somebody finds it. It's like 1765 01:55:03.039 --> 01:55:09.199 there's the arm of a squirrel on the yeah, the 1766 01:55:09.239 --> 01:55:13.600 head of a rabbit, and then here's the scales of a. 1767 01:55:13.560 --> 01:55:16.920 Fish or the like a Kroco squirrel or something with 1768 01:55:17.000 --> 01:55:22.079 a crocodilet on it or something like that. Yeah. Like, well, 1769 01:55:22.680 --> 01:55:25.960 well you have to have an expert come in and 1770 01:55:27.079 --> 01:55:29.079 give you the lowdown on what you're looking at, right, 1771 01:55:29.239 --> 01:55:34.600 so that you it's like the Mormon tablet's gold, you know, 1772 01:55:35.000 --> 01:55:39.920 like you were to find tablets of gold somewhere, you'd 1773 01:55:39.960 --> 01:55:42.520 be like, oh, cool, it's gold, you know, that's that's nice. 1774 01:55:43.039 --> 01:55:46.279 But uh but they're formed into these tablets with this 1775 01:55:46.640 --> 01:55:51.119 interesting writing on them, and uh so at that point 1776 01:55:51.159 --> 01:55:56.039 they not have any significance to you. But let's say 1777 01:55:56.079 --> 01:55:58.560 you go take it to the pawn shop or whatever 1778 01:55:58.600 --> 01:56:00.239 you want to check out and say, what is this man? 1779 01:56:00.800 --> 01:56:02.840 He checks it out and he's like, I don't know. 1780 01:56:02.880 --> 01:56:04.680 It looks like you maybe take this new museum, you 1781 01:56:04.720 --> 01:56:07.479 take it the museum, and so they say, well, maybe 1782 01:56:07.520 --> 01:56:09.680 the Mormons might be interested in this, and the Mormons 1783 01:56:09.680 --> 01:56:13.760 get it, and then that's a very profound significant finding 1784 01:56:13.840 --> 01:56:16.720 to them. But outside of the context of the authority 1785 01:56:16.720 --> 01:56:19.840 of the Mormon Church and their whole mythology and stuff 1786 01:56:19.880 --> 01:56:24.159 that they have already in place, that it would just 1787 01:56:24.239 --> 01:56:28.319 simply be some sort of tablets, right, something a matter 1788 01:56:28.359 --> 01:56:30.880 of gold, someone with writing on it, but it wouldn't 1789 01:56:30.880 --> 01:56:37.039 have any significance. Some undecipherable language that was given to 1790 01:56:37.239 --> 01:56:40.840 Joseph Smith by an angel, and then it would have 1791 01:56:40.880 --> 01:56:43.319 a great deal of significance in that context, but outside 1792 01:56:43.319 --> 01:56:46.399 of that context has real no significance other than maybe 1793 01:56:46.439 --> 01:56:49.000 the idea that it's gold and then you can maybe 1794 01:56:49.119 --> 01:56:50.880 sell it for some money or something like that based 1795 01:56:50.880 --> 01:56:52.359 on the fact that it's gold. But other than that, 1796 01:56:52.439 --> 01:56:56.319 it wouldn't have no significance until the interpretive framework of 1797 01:56:56.479 --> 01:57:01.279 the Mormon ideology is overset on it. Same exact thing 1798 01:57:01.279 --> 01:57:04.960 with these bones, because there's nothing you can take away 1799 01:57:05.000 --> 01:57:07.760 from just looking at those bones that would tell you 1800 01:57:07.800 --> 01:57:11.319 that that's a lizardfish. There's not even doesn't even have 1801 01:57:11.319 --> 01:57:13.840 any legs on it. It's like this like kind of 1802 01:57:14.399 --> 01:57:18.479 stumped sticking out of it, and it's like looks exactly 1803 01:57:18.560 --> 01:57:21.960 like somebody did a comparison between that and a certain 1804 01:57:21.960 --> 01:57:25.560 species of crocodile that's out there, and they put it 1805 01:57:25.600 --> 01:57:28.640 side by side, and it's like, wow, that's virtually identical 1806 01:57:28.720 --> 01:57:32.520 to that thing. But uh so, maybe it's a combination 1807 01:57:32.640 --> 01:57:36.800 of a crocodile skull and a fish like who knows. 1808 01:57:37.039 --> 01:57:39.399 But you have to defer to the experts, right, and 1809 01:57:39.439 --> 01:57:41.000 they have to interpret that for you. 1810 01:57:43.159 --> 01:57:46.600 Yes, did you see that reminds me of the Grand 1811 01:57:46.640 --> 01:57:50.760 Canyon sized hole that opened up somewhere in Middle America? 1812 01:57:50.800 --> 01:57:51.560 I forget where it. 1813 01:57:51.520 --> 01:57:55.119 Was, Yeah, up in Utah or why Won'ting or something. 1814 01:57:55.680 --> 01:57:57.960 And this happened very quickly. 1815 01:57:59.399 --> 01:58:01.600 Uh huh I talked about that. 1816 01:58:01.880 --> 01:58:07.039 Oh yeah, well that's supposed to take millions of years 1817 01:58:07.039 --> 01:58:09.760 for the Grand Grand Canyon to form. How is this possible? 1818 01:58:11.960 --> 01:58:15.520 Yeah? How do you have a canyon that has a 1819 01:58:15.560 --> 01:58:21.399 lot of the same characteristics very strikingly so even and 1820 01:58:21.520 --> 01:58:24.359 it form overnight? It's not possible, is it? 1821 01:58:25.720 --> 01:58:31.039 Say? I'm looking to science or entity, our god, creature 1822 01:58:31.800 --> 01:58:34.479 and it says that the Grand Canyon took seventy million 1823 01:58:34.560 --> 01:58:45.159 years to form. According to Live science dot com, he lope, 1824 01:58:46.640 --> 01:58:49.199 yuh huh, seventy million years. 1825 01:58:49.239 --> 01:58:54.880 Science says seventy million years at least. Yeah, that's the Oh, 1826 01:58:54.920 --> 01:58:57.560 that's what you're going to be told. And then okay, 1827 01:58:57.600 --> 01:58:59.960 so when you go look at the Grand Canyon, now, 1828 01:59:00.000 --> 01:59:06.760 well that's proof of long vast ages of time. That's 1829 01:59:06.840 --> 01:59:10.439 evidence that you can observe with your own eyes. But 1830 01:59:10.640 --> 01:59:16.760 would you necessarily draw that conclusion outside of the scientific 1831 01:59:16.760 --> 01:59:21.199 priests class telling you that's what it represents now? And 1832 01:59:21.319 --> 01:59:23.880 remember especially if you just came from Wyoming where you 1833 01:59:24.000 --> 01:59:26.119 just saw a hole like that open up in the 1834 01:59:26.119 --> 01:59:28.399 ground like a week prior, you know. 1835 01:59:31.520 --> 01:59:36.439 Yeah, And other great points too. Stalactites and stalagmites do 1836 01:59:36.560 --> 01:59:39.119 not take millions of years to form. You can look 1837 01:59:39.159 --> 01:59:41.560 at houses that are one hundred years old with old 1838 01:59:41.600 --> 01:59:44.560 basements where they have formed and these are supposed to 1839 01:59:44.560 --> 01:59:45.479 take millions of years. 1840 01:59:47.279 --> 01:59:50.319 Yeah, and they'll have like a what like a fifteen 1841 01:59:50.399 --> 01:59:56.239 foot stalagmite in the basement, you know from Yeah, and 1842 01:59:56.279 --> 02:00:01.800 then you could find fossils of modern well, there's a 1843 02:00:01.840 --> 02:00:05.920 pretty well known fossil that's of a cowboy boot with 1844 02:00:05.960 --> 02:00:09.640 a foot still in it and it's completely fossilized. 1845 02:00:09.720 --> 02:00:12.640 And then uh, dating, we'll say that's a million years old. 1846 02:00:14.359 --> 02:00:16.600 Yeah, if you were to take like maybe a chunk 1847 02:00:16.640 --> 02:00:18.880 of it and go have it dated and don't tell 1848 02:00:18.920 --> 02:00:20.880 them that it was a cowboy boot, they'd probably come 1849 02:00:20.920 --> 02:00:22.960 back with some astronomical date on it. 1850 02:00:24.039 --> 02:00:24.159 Uh. 1851 02:00:24.920 --> 02:00:29.079 There's been all kinds of examples of that where they 1852 02:00:29.159 --> 02:00:32.039 date stuff that can't possibly be that old because it, 1853 02:00:32.239 --> 02:00:35.000 you know, just came from newly formed out of a volcano, 1854 02:00:35.079 --> 02:00:37.079 and they date it it's millions of years old. So 1855 02:00:37.119 --> 02:00:40.720 it's like, Okay, this is brand new rock. You hello, 1856 02:00:40.920 --> 02:00:45.239 how do you get that date? It's like, well, something's 1857 02:00:45.279 --> 02:00:48.520 wrong somewhere, right I look at it that way? 1858 02:00:48.560 --> 02:00:48.840 I don't. 1859 02:00:49.279 --> 02:00:53.520 But you know, people are absolutely one hundred percent convinced 1860 02:00:54.479 --> 02:00:57.560 that they can take rocks and bones and stuff like 1861 02:00:57.600 --> 02:00:59.279 that out of the ground and run them through a 1862 02:00:59.319 --> 02:01:01.560 machine and get some kind of a date on them. 1863 02:01:01.640 --> 02:01:04.960 But you can't. I've talked about this where I have 1864 02:01:05.039 --> 02:01:11.239 this sample form from the University of Wisconsin or something, 1865 02:01:12.199 --> 02:01:17.159 and it's your submission form when you submit a sample 1866 02:01:17.239 --> 02:01:21.640 to be dated in their lab. You know, they're they're they're, uh, 1867 02:01:22.319 --> 02:01:25.880 what is that called isometric dating or whatever. They're going 1868 02:01:25.960 --> 02:01:28.920 to look at the rock and they're going to count 1869 02:01:29.159 --> 02:01:33.079 the isotopes and and do all that right with their machines. 1870 02:01:33.159 --> 02:01:36.239 They can do all that right. But at the top 1871 02:01:36.239 --> 02:01:42.600 of the form, they ask you the approximate date of 1872 02:01:41.960 --> 02:01:43.920 the thing that you're submitting. 1873 02:01:46.680 --> 02:01:48.800 How old? How old is How old is your rock? 1874 02:01:49.319 --> 02:01:52.399 It's thirty million years old. Then you get it back 1875 02:01:52.439 --> 02:01:54.760 it says your rock is thirty million years. 1876 02:01:54.600 --> 02:02:01.159 Old based on well, how far down was it? Was 1877 02:02:01.199 --> 02:02:05.479 it from the Triassic era, the Cretaceous era, or what 1878 02:02:05.560 --> 02:02:08.640 do you think it was from? Well, I found trilobite 1879 02:02:08.640 --> 02:02:10.319 in it, so it must have been of the pre 1880 02:02:10.399 --> 02:02:14.600 Cambrian era. Yeah, guess what date they'll probably give you, 1881 02:02:14.600 --> 02:02:17.159 you know, yeah, something approximating that. 1882 02:02:17.479 --> 02:02:20.079 I think you guys have pointed out the Fly Geyser 1883 02:02:20.199 --> 02:02:21.720 as well, which is another great. 1884 02:02:21.520 --> 02:02:29.520 Example, Yeah, of a geological formation that started forming in 1885 02:02:29.600 --> 02:02:31.439 this what sixties. 1886 02:02:31.279 --> 02:02:34.479 Yeah, the sixties at where they have Burning Man. 1887 02:02:36.520 --> 02:02:40.520 Yeah, the same area right there right. 1888 02:02:42.319 --> 02:02:43.960 Of the people at Burning Man would say they believe 1889 02:02:44.039 --> 02:02:47.439 in the Darwinian evolution. They're standing right next to the 1890 02:02:47.439 --> 02:02:49.479 fly geyser, which took like forty years. 1891 02:02:51.319 --> 02:02:59.319 Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I'm sure like if they didn't 1892 02:02:59.319 --> 02:03:05.560 know any better and somebody was saw that, they would 1893 02:03:05.600 --> 02:03:09.479 just assume, well, that must be you know, many many 1894 02:03:09.560 --> 02:03:12.319 thousands of years old or maybe millions of years old. 1895 02:03:12.600 --> 02:03:17.359 Right, Yeah, And that was I didn't know about the flagyser, 1896 02:03:17.439 --> 02:03:19.359 so I was glad to hear you guys point that out. 1897 02:03:19.520 --> 02:03:21.359 And you were probably the one that pointed out the 1898 02:03:21.640 --> 02:03:24.880 it's the massive crack in earth mysteriously opens a big 1899 02:03:24.920 --> 02:03:31.239 horn mountains and this is Wyoming. So two things to 1900 02:03:31.800 --> 02:03:34.199 check out that were new to me this last year. 1901 02:03:35.840 --> 02:03:39.359 Yeah. And there's a guy Robert Gentry. Have you heard 1902 02:03:39.399 --> 02:03:39.720 of him? 1903 02:03:40.319 --> 02:03:40.479 Huh? 1904 02:03:40.880 --> 02:03:45.880 And so he goes into how you know coal seems 1905 02:03:46.359 --> 02:03:49.199 that's another thing that we're told that takes millions of 1906 02:03:49.279 --> 02:03:54.159 years to form, but he's demonstrated that he can. He 1907 02:03:54.239 --> 02:03:57.560 can make coal in a laboratory, put a heat and 1908 02:03:57.560 --> 02:03:59.239 pressure on it, and he can make it like a 1909 02:03:59.239 --> 02:04:06.960 couple of days. And then he's taken measurements of something 1910 02:04:07.000 --> 02:04:12.279 that something isotope or something that decays within these coal 1911 02:04:12.359 --> 02:04:17.119 seam formations, and he can take a sample of that, 1912 02:04:17.399 --> 02:04:20.560 slice it down the center and you can see these 1913 02:04:20.640 --> 02:04:26.800 like halos that will form. And if you look under 1914 02:04:26.840 --> 02:04:31.800 the microscope at these halos and then they have I mean, 1915 02:04:31.800 --> 02:04:33.960 they know how long it takes for those things to 1916 02:04:34.039 --> 02:04:39.800 form by direct observation that they show signs of being compressed. 1917 02:04:40.800 --> 02:04:45.680 So it said this had to have formed obviously before 1918 02:04:46.520 --> 02:04:53.720 the process that it underwent to get this visible compression 1919 02:04:53.800 --> 02:04:58.199 you know, in these halos. So it's like it's very 1920 02:04:58.239 --> 02:05:03.479 strong evidence that those formations didn't take No way could 1921 02:05:03.520 --> 02:05:06.279 have tooken millions of years to form. There's just absolutely 1922 02:05:06.319 --> 02:05:06.680 no way. 1923 02:05:07.119 --> 02:05:10.279 Yeah. Another assumption that's made on the part of people 1924 02:05:10.600 --> 02:05:14.199 that have that viewwards corollary the Big Bang and so forth, 1925 02:05:15.000 --> 02:05:18.039 is the idea that things couldn't be created with the 1926 02:05:18.079 --> 02:05:19.920 appearance of age. Right, So. 1927 02:05:21.479 --> 02:05:23.520 In other words, I mean, what do we even what 1928 02:05:23.560 --> 02:05:26.479 does anybody even mean when they say appearance of age? 1929 02:05:26.520 --> 02:05:32.840 You know, So that's kind of like a arbitrary definition 1930 02:05:33.199 --> 02:05:36.399 and another example of one that gets thrown out there. Yeah, 1931 02:05:37.359 --> 02:05:39.560 you know, like, oh, well, this is this age because 1932 02:05:39.600 --> 02:05:44.720 of this, and they'll invoke radiocarbon dating or something like that, 1933 02:05:45.279 --> 02:05:49.000 but when in fact, there's a lot of different factors 1934 02:05:49.000 --> 02:05:53.279 that you know, can can give you all kinds of well, well, 1935 02:05:53.319 --> 02:05:55.399 like I just mentioned before, well, I mean there's even 1936 02:05:55.399 --> 02:05:57.800 examples where they take a wooly mammoth and then they 1937 02:05:58.239 --> 02:06:01.600 take a sample of this wooly mammoth that was giving 1938 02:06:01.640 --> 02:06:04.600 birth and it was like somehow flash frozen in the ice, 1939 02:06:04.680 --> 02:06:08.119 and they take they took a sample of the of 1940 02:06:08.279 --> 02:06:11.000 the baby wooly mammoth and the mother wooly mammoth, and 1941 02:06:11.039 --> 02:06:14.000 they got like a difference in age of like half 1942 02:06:14.039 --> 02:06:18.279 a million years or something like that. So that's obviously wrong. 1943 02:06:19.199 --> 02:06:20.520 Yeah. 1944 02:06:20.640 --> 02:06:24.680 Another point too is what's often mentioned is the notion 1945 02:06:24.840 --> 02:06:30.079 of complexity, and so the Darwinian theorists will say, look, 1946 02:06:30.399 --> 02:06:35.279 you know, it's obvious that organisms moved from single cells 1947 02:06:35.359 --> 02:06:38.800 to complexity, right, because we see a self split and 1948 02:06:38.840 --> 02:06:42.319 so therefore we can reason back to presume or actually 1949 02:06:42.319 --> 02:06:46.439 dogmatically declare that everything thus split from one single cell 1950 02:06:46.479 --> 02:06:51.399 at some point. Well, no, because first of all, I 1951 02:06:51.439 --> 02:06:54.000 would just from a philosophical standpoint, I would say that 1952 02:06:54.399 --> 02:06:59.600 given the worldview that the Darwinian perspective has, there's no 1953 02:06:59.640 --> 02:07:03.920 such thing is complexity out there in the world. Complexity 1954 02:07:04.039 --> 02:07:08.479 is a is a concept, right, as you've been pointing out, 1955 02:07:08.560 --> 02:07:12.119 is an interpretive framework. So when you're looking at something 1956 02:07:12.119 --> 02:07:16.760 and it has the appearance of complexity in the Darwinian scheme, 1957 02:07:17.039 --> 02:07:21.720 ultimately it's all just atomism anyway, right, So it's just molecules, 1958 02:07:22.319 --> 02:07:26.159 and the idea that it's more quote complex, assume some 1959 02:07:26.199 --> 02:07:30.880 sort of scale or gradation of complex and less complex 1960 02:07:31.000 --> 02:07:35.279 or simplicity that is somehow a priori or inherently obvious. 1961 02:07:35.880 --> 02:07:40.720 And from a philosophical mantage point, that's problematic because in 1962 02:07:40.760 --> 02:07:43.239 that world view and your perspective, you would have no 1963 02:07:43.399 --> 02:07:48.000 reason or way to explain what complexity is because it's 1964 02:07:48.039 --> 02:07:52.600 a conceptual interpretation of some object in the world, and 1965 02:07:53.840 --> 02:07:57.520 you don't have that right. It's also as arbitrary as 1966 02:07:57.560 --> 02:08:01.680 what you're saying with the so called APay of age. 1967 02:08:01.880 --> 02:08:04.479 Yeah, well, I think a good, a real good example 1968 02:08:04.520 --> 02:08:09.680 that demonstrates that is this concept of convergent evolution. So 1969 02:08:09.720 --> 02:08:15.600 they'll they'll look at a biological feature in an organism 1970 02:08:15.680 --> 02:08:20.399 like bioluminescence and squid, octopus and stuff like that, and 1971 02:08:20.960 --> 02:08:26.079 so they can't concoct any kind of evolutionary relationship that 1972 02:08:26.439 --> 02:08:29.439 were they can point to that being a result of 1973 02:08:29.479 --> 02:08:33.479 some kind of common anist ancestry because it it will 1974 02:08:33.720 --> 02:08:36.720 totally disrupt their current model, you know, so they have 1975 02:08:36.760 --> 02:08:38.560 to reject that. So they have to come up with 1976 02:08:38.560 --> 02:08:45.079 this new theory, which is convergent evolution, meaning that bioluminescence 1977 02:08:45.920 --> 02:08:52.600 evolved separately in those organisms, independently of each other. And they, yeah, 1978 02:08:52.760 --> 02:08:57.159 that's actually a thing. It's a convergent evolution. So with 1979 02:08:57.239 --> 02:09:01.039 that in mind, you come over to do what they're 1980 02:09:01.079 --> 02:09:07.399 talking about with the fusion of chromosome two, and they'll 1981 02:09:07.399 --> 02:09:11.560 point to that as proof that we have common ancestry 1982 02:09:11.600 --> 02:09:15.840 with the chimpanzees because of this fusion site in the chromosome. 1983 02:09:16.960 --> 02:09:20.039 But if you keep in mind that there's the same 1984 02:09:20.119 --> 02:09:25.439 called convergent evolution, so that like this touch is on 1985 02:09:25.720 --> 02:09:32.359 what you just described where there is no real complexity, 1986 02:09:32.399 --> 02:09:34.439 there is no real structure anything, because everything is just 1987 02:09:34.479 --> 02:09:37.720 atomism anyway, right, So that the same holds true with 1988 02:09:37.800 --> 02:09:43.640 these observations, and they can invoke this special ad hoc 1989 02:09:43.720 --> 02:09:52.119 explanation for these repeating patterns, so that it's like they 1990 02:09:52.159 --> 02:09:57.279 want to invoke patterns in the case of chromosome two 1991 02:09:57.720 --> 02:10:00.680 or these er V sites they call them these uh 1992 02:10:02.399 --> 02:10:09.520 idea and uh so pointing the similarities between those sites 1993 02:10:09.640 --> 02:10:12.119 in a chimpanzee and those size and human, which actually 1994 02:10:12.199 --> 02:10:15.319 turns out that those are not what they purport them 1995 02:10:15.319 --> 02:10:17.960 to be anyway. They're not they're not retroviral sites, they're 1996 02:10:17.960 --> 02:10:20.800 not they're not vestigial. They have functions, so they can't 1997 02:10:20.840 --> 02:10:24.159 be that. So their interpretation on that has been proven wrong. 1998 02:10:24.399 --> 02:10:27.439 But anyway, let's say even if it was true, which 1999 02:10:27.479 --> 02:10:29.479 is it isn't true. But even if it was true, 2000 02:10:30.119 --> 02:10:37.760 they're relying upon an observed pattern, right, absolutely, How do 2001 02:10:37.840 --> 02:10:43.359 they now resort to applying significance to an observed pattern 2002 02:10:44.199 --> 02:10:48.560 when in other contexts it perhaps absolutely no significance exactly, 2003 02:10:48.600 --> 02:10:52.279 So patterns can be chalked up to just pure coincidence, 2004 02:10:53.319 --> 02:10:54.720 right in any other context. 2005 02:10:55.000 --> 02:10:58.319 They are in Darwinism and in any other context. And 2006 02:10:58.760 --> 02:11:02.479 the irony here is that from a philosophical perspective, you 2007 02:11:02.680 --> 02:11:06.560 need the reality of patterns objectively out there in the 2008 02:11:06.600 --> 02:11:11.119 world for human interpretation, period, for the human mind to 2009 02:11:11.159 --> 02:11:14.239 interpret anything in the world. It's all kind of grounded 2010 02:11:14.279 --> 02:11:19.359 on pattern recognition. But the patterns have to also be 2011 02:11:19.560 --> 02:11:21.560 actually out there in the world. They can't just be 2012 02:11:21.680 --> 02:11:24.239 in the mind, right, because if they're just in the mind, 2013 02:11:24.359 --> 02:11:28.399 then we're stuck in our mind and syllipsism. And ironically, 2014 02:11:28.840 --> 02:11:33.039 because Darwinian theorists are generally people into do physics and biology, 2015 02:11:33.039 --> 02:11:35.479 they don't study philosophy. They don't they're not worried with 2016 02:11:35.560 --> 02:11:41.119 consistency because they're always contradicting themselves, which is funny because 2017 02:11:41.119 --> 02:11:43.600 they're always the ones to turn around and talk about 2018 02:11:43.600 --> 02:11:46.520 how they believe in the logic and reason. Well, number one, 2019 02:11:46.640 --> 02:11:52.079 logic is actually also conceptual, it's immaterial. They are rules 2020 02:11:52.520 --> 02:11:57.319 and laws, much like mathematical principles that function not just 2021 02:11:57.399 --> 02:11:59.399 in the mind, but also in the natural world. If 2022 02:11:59.399 --> 02:12:01.520 they didn't funk in the natural world, we couldn't build 2023 02:12:01.520 --> 02:12:06.359 a bridge, right because it's based on mathematical principles. Yet 2024 02:12:06.720 --> 02:12:10.159 at the same time, there is a belief that there's 2025 02:12:10.279 --> 02:12:13.840 no objective principles out there in the world. There are 2026 02:12:13.920 --> 02:12:17.600 just human descriptors for things that are called quote natural laws. 2027 02:12:18.000 --> 02:12:21.520 But those aren't really laws. They're just the way quote 2028 02:12:21.600 --> 02:12:25.079 nature works. It's just what's out there should just happens. 2029 02:12:25.119 --> 02:12:29.119 In other words, right, just yet, we're supposed to believe 2030 02:12:29.159 --> 02:12:33.439 that there is the ability of the human mind to 2031 02:12:33.479 --> 02:12:37.680 go out and interpret the world, to write scientific journals 2032 02:12:37.720 --> 02:12:40.680 to do all kinds of experimentation, which is all based 2033 02:12:40.720 --> 02:12:43.680 on pattern and logic. Right, the scientific method is based 2034 02:12:43.720 --> 02:12:47.840 on patterns and logic. Yet all of that is simultaneously 2035 02:12:48.079 --> 02:12:51.920 in modern science discarded. There's no such thing as a 2036 02:12:52.039 --> 02:12:56.159 mind that has a structure that's interpreting an external world 2037 02:12:56.279 --> 02:13:00.399 with order and structure that's been dispensed with so that 2038 02:13:00.720 --> 02:13:03.840 it's all completely shot itself in the foot philosophically, which 2039 02:13:03.880 --> 02:13:05.920 is why they don't care about philosophy. This is why 2040 02:13:05.960 --> 02:13:08.800 Neil de Grassy Tyson says philosophy is ridiculous and it 2041 02:13:08.920 --> 02:13:11.760 asks a munch of the dumb questions. Actually, it asked 2042 02:13:11.760 --> 02:13:14.159 the questions that Neil de grass Dyson has to avoid. 2043 02:13:16.600 --> 02:13:22.239 Yeah, because you know, with without that, you know, you 2044 02:13:22.319 --> 02:13:25.680 can uh invoke any kind of crickterra you want for 2045 02:13:26.279 --> 02:13:30.439 your epistemology, which which excludes even having to be consistent. 2046 02:13:31.359 --> 02:13:34.000 Yeah, we believe in logic and reason. We're Darwins belar 2047 02:13:34.079 --> 02:13:37.000 with logic and reason. Oh what is logic and reason? 2048 02:13:37.119 --> 02:13:39.039 Don't bug me with your philosophy bullshit? 2049 02:13:42.119 --> 02:13:45.159 Literally, Well, I think it can be summed up too, 2050 02:13:45.359 --> 02:13:47.319 like the whole argument, And I guess this's kind of 2051 02:13:47.359 --> 02:13:52.920 touch goes into the teleological argument, Uh, why would anything 2052 02:13:54.359 --> 02:13:59.439 in the universe have to work? Whatsoever? Why does anything work? 2053 02:13:59.720 --> 02:14:03.119 Yeah? And by the way, for something working quote work. 2054 02:14:04.560 --> 02:14:09.920 That is also in the Darwinian scheme of necessity, a 2055 02:14:10.199 --> 02:14:15.000 subjective interpretation of phenomena in the world. What you're calling 2056 02:14:15.319 --> 02:14:20.960 working right when you say, oh, the gastro intestinal system 2057 02:14:21.039 --> 02:14:26.319 of the swamp rat, it works because it shits a lot. 2058 02:14:28.640 --> 02:14:33.039 That is merely a phenomena of things happening in the world. 2059 02:14:33.279 --> 02:14:36.560 There's no working or not working. I mean another word, 2060 02:14:36.560 --> 02:14:38.680 you see what I'm saying that there's no reason to 2061 02:14:38.840 --> 02:14:43.600 say that it's working simply because the phenomena are happening. 2062 02:14:44.279 --> 02:14:47.199 For something to work is to assume that you've got 2063 02:14:47.239 --> 02:14:51.079 again some sort of gradation of standard, just like something 2064 02:14:51.119 --> 02:14:54.159 being logical or consistent by which you can judge a 2065 02:14:54.239 --> 02:14:56.840 thing in this case works and a thing in this 2066 02:14:56.920 --> 02:14:59.800 case does not work. So, in other words, you're absolutely right. 2067 02:15:00.119 --> 02:15:04.680 Presumes te lose or purpose. But telos are purpose. According 2068 02:15:04.720 --> 02:15:07.000 to David Hume and everyone after him and all the 2069 02:15:07.039 --> 02:15:10.840 scientistic crowd. Does not work. There's no telos in the world. 2070 02:15:10.960 --> 02:15:14.560 Telos is a human interpretation of facts, and in fact, 2071 02:15:14.600 --> 02:15:17.760 every time you were if you were to say, oh, 2072 02:15:17.760 --> 02:15:20.000 the blind watchmaker, right, this is the one they always 2073 02:15:20.000 --> 02:15:24.680 fall back on. They'll say, David Hume showed us that 2074 02:15:24.840 --> 02:15:29.039 the blind watchmaker argument doesn't work because you're just interpreting 2075 02:15:29.079 --> 02:15:33.039 the phenomena of the world to have a purpose. Uh oh, 2076 02:15:33.439 --> 02:15:38.479 that works against Darwinism too, because you're just interpreting the 2077 02:15:38.640 --> 02:15:41.840 gastrointestinal system of the rat to have a purpose or function. 2078 02:15:42.720 --> 02:15:45.079 Now I think it does, right. But what I'm saying 2079 02:15:45.119 --> 02:15:47.640 is that in any one of these cases there are examples, 2080 02:15:47.680 --> 02:15:51.039 and you could give many anymore. What it shows is 2081 02:15:51.039 --> 02:15:55.079 that they're operating with a philosophy, even if they don't 2082 02:15:55.119 --> 02:15:57.880 want to admit it or know it, that is completely 2083 02:15:57.880 --> 02:16:03.199 contrary to the other subpositions of their philosophy, right, because 2084 02:16:03.199 --> 02:16:10.279 their philosophy is materialism, materialistic process determinism as a result, 2085 02:16:10.960 --> 02:16:15.039 and mind and psyche essentially don't exist. Really, they're illusory 2086 02:16:15.560 --> 02:16:19.359 and it's just shit happening. Yeah, they want to turn 2087 02:16:19.560 --> 02:16:22.720 so it's in other words, ultimate reality is completely irrational. 2088 02:16:23.159 --> 02:16:25.640 But they want to turn around and have all of 2089 02:16:25.680 --> 02:16:29.199 this reason and logic and rationality and meaning and purpose 2090 02:16:29.239 --> 02:16:38.239 and order in their descriptions and scientific methodology. 2091 02:16:35.200 --> 02:16:40.479 Right, Yeah, they they do play both sides of the fence. 2092 02:16:40.559 --> 02:16:47.120 You know, they have these presuppositions that they operate off of. 2093 02:16:48.760 --> 02:16:53.399 And you know this, when somebody will point to something 2094 02:16:54.520 --> 02:16:59.040 observed maybe in childbirths, say a deformity, Well, there is 2095 02:16:59.079 --> 02:17:02.959 no such things as a deformity. That is only some 2096 02:17:03.520 --> 02:17:08.079 realization of some biological process. It totally has no purpose 2097 02:17:08.159 --> 02:17:12.760 or meaning even of what we're familiar with, because all 2098 02:17:12.840 --> 02:17:14.920 of that is totally subjective, right, So there is no 2099 02:17:15.040 --> 02:17:18.120 such thing as a deformity. There is no such thing 2100 02:17:18.200 --> 02:17:22.079 as even a disease or an illness. Yeah, say, all 2101 02:17:22.159 --> 02:17:26.040 those things are part of the biological process and you're 2102 02:17:26.159 --> 02:17:30.000 only putting that human interpretation on those things. There is 2103 02:17:30.040 --> 02:17:33.159 no such thing as a disease. There is no optimal 2104 02:17:33.280 --> 02:17:39.319 way to be or exist, So there is no I 2105 02:17:39.360 --> 02:17:42.920 think we maybe even see that come about. As bizarre 2106 02:17:42.920 --> 02:17:45.120 as that sounds, yeah. 2107 02:17:44.920 --> 02:17:48.000 I wouldn't be surprised. It's a system that's so modeled 2108 02:17:48.120 --> 02:17:52.159 and nonsensical that it could literally go anywhere to try 2109 02:17:52.200 --> 02:17:57.639 to maintain its viability, because really it just falls back 2110 02:17:57.680 --> 02:18:04.239 on techniques of propaganda and there authoritarianism without any attempting 2111 02:18:04.600 --> 02:18:07.879 you know, coherence or consistency. Yeah, there's plenty of peer 2112 02:18:07.920 --> 02:18:11.440 reviewed papers, but that has absolutely nothing to do with 2113 02:18:11.600 --> 02:18:16.399 being consistent or coherent, or rational or logical or based 2114 02:18:16.399 --> 02:18:20.280 on evidence. You and I know this. Those two things 2115 02:18:20.280 --> 02:18:23.440 are radically different, right. But you know, for most people, 2116 02:18:23.520 --> 02:18:26.079 the equivalent of what it is to be rational and 2117 02:18:26.120 --> 02:18:30.399 coherent and logical equals peer review and what the establishment says, 2118 02:18:31.040 --> 02:18:35.600 and those two things are not the same. So yeah, 2119 02:18:35.840 --> 02:18:39.000 and from a philosophical mantage point, you can break that 2120 02:18:39.079 --> 02:18:42.000 down even further by pointing out the absurdity of every 2121 02:18:42.040 --> 02:18:44.399 time that they try to write a book or make 2122 02:18:44.440 --> 02:18:52.920 a statement. These are the also materialistic determined processes. They're 2123 02:18:52.959 --> 02:18:55.959 not actually learning anything about the world. They're just you know, 2124 02:18:56.000 --> 02:19:00.520 spewings over of chemical reactions. You know, the the books 2125 02:19:00.559 --> 02:19:04.239 that Stephen J. Gould writes are merely the determined processes 2126 02:19:04.319 --> 02:19:08.879 of natural phenomena and they don't have any objective meaning. 2127 02:19:09.959 --> 02:19:13.559 Which is curious because Neil Degrassey Tyson says that the 2128 02:19:13.600 --> 02:19:18.159 philosophical question that's posed to him often about meaning is 2129 02:19:18.319 --> 02:19:20.799 ridiculous and absurd. He thinks that those are waste of 2130 02:19:20.799 --> 02:19:23.680 time questions. Well, they're not a waste of time when 2131 02:19:23.760 --> 02:19:26.159 you tell me, on the one hand that life is 2132 02:19:26.799 --> 02:19:29.959 just a bunch of chemical reactions and meaningless, and then 2133 02:19:29.959 --> 02:19:31.680 you're going to turn around and try to write books 2134 02:19:31.719 --> 02:19:35.360 and do TV shows that purport to give the meaning 2135 02:19:35.360 --> 02:19:36.040 of the universe. 2136 02:19:38.760 --> 02:19:42.399 Yeah, so they're like playing both sides of the field 2137 02:19:42.799 --> 02:19:53.360 and putting out contradictory philosophically contradictory constantficiens constantly. Yeah and yeah, 2138 02:19:53.399 --> 02:19:56.239 no wonder they don't want to touch on those areas. 2139 02:19:56.280 --> 02:20:00.360 But it's more of this and you'll se see it 2140 02:20:00.680 --> 02:20:03.959 how they argue a point or something like that. It's 2141 02:20:04.040 --> 02:20:09.840 that not not for any reason thought out, uh methodical way. 2142 02:20:09.840 --> 02:20:17.280 It's more of this, uh tell it just stating that, Okay, 2143 02:20:17.440 --> 02:20:21.719 we have the facts and that's a fact. You know 2144 02:20:21.799 --> 02:20:22.639 that we have a fact. 2145 02:20:22.879 --> 02:20:24.319 Fact, it's just a fact. 2146 02:20:25.079 --> 02:20:27.399 Yeah, it's just a fact that we have the facts. 2147 02:20:27.440 --> 02:20:31.159 And it's like, well that you told me nothing. I mean, 2148 02:20:31.200 --> 02:20:33.479 that is a fact that you've told me nothing. It 2149 02:20:33.600 --> 02:20:37.159 is like you're you know, but that's you know, if 2150 02:20:37.159 --> 02:20:39.079 you just go around and round with that, you're not 2151 02:20:39.520 --> 02:20:42.440 and not saying anything. So like when you know, you 2152 02:20:42.520 --> 02:20:45.680 get into a discussion with with somebody who's a Darwinist 2153 02:20:45.680 --> 02:20:48.760 and they're one hundred percent convinced that evolution is true 2154 02:20:49.120 --> 02:20:52.760 and it's been observed, and you, you know, you start questioning, Okay, 2155 02:20:52.799 --> 02:20:55.840 what what is in your mind the best evidence or 2156 02:20:55.959 --> 02:20:59.239 you know, evolution happened like they say it happened, and 2157 02:20:59.760 --> 02:21:02.520 so they give you their what they think is the 2158 02:21:02.520 --> 02:21:05.680 best evidence. And then okay, you want to take a 2159 02:21:05.680 --> 02:21:09.000 few steps further. Okay, let's get in the particulars of 2160 02:21:09.479 --> 02:21:13.360 what you say, this meat, what is in other words, 2161 02:21:13.440 --> 02:21:15.760 explain it, give give me flesh it out, and give 2162 02:21:15.799 --> 02:21:20.159 me some uh, some of the some of the mechanics 2163 02:21:20.440 --> 02:21:23.079 of how this actually works. Let's get under the hood. 2164 02:21:23.440 --> 02:21:25.920 It's like, you know, you got to you gotta buddy over. Okay, 2165 02:21:25.959 --> 02:21:28.120 you got a problem with your car. You can sit 2166 02:21:28.159 --> 02:21:30.040 around and talk about it. Well, I don't know, I 2167 02:21:30.079 --> 02:21:32.200 turned the key and nothing happens, and you can sit 2168 02:21:32.280 --> 02:21:34.520 and talk about it all day. Well, let's let's go 2169 02:21:34.600 --> 02:21:36.559 get under the hood and look at it, and let's 2170 02:21:36.559 --> 02:21:39.399 start poking around into there. So when you get into that, 2171 02:21:39.840 --> 02:21:43.600 to that level, you know, metaphorically speaking with a discussion 2172 02:21:43.639 --> 02:21:47.079 with somebody like that, it's like, why are you taking 2173 02:21:47.159 --> 02:21:49.840 me here? This is the this is the arena of 2174 02:21:49.840 --> 02:21:53.360 the experts. It's like it's like, uh, Jason Cavaledo did 2175 02:21:53.360 --> 02:21:56.000 with me. It's like I started pressing him on. Okay, 2176 02:21:56.159 --> 02:21:57.920 he says that he believes this, and he says, in 2177 02:21:58.000 --> 02:22:01.840 this established fact, well, let's get it too. Let's let's go, Jason, 2178 02:22:01.879 --> 02:22:03.479 let's go check it out under the hood, man, let's go. 2179 02:22:04.200 --> 02:22:07.399 Let's go start uh, you know, looking looking down under 2180 02:22:07.440 --> 02:22:09.840 there and start getting getting greasy into the nuts and 2181 02:22:09.879 --> 02:22:12.360 bults of the matter. And it's like, no, why I'm 2182 02:22:12.399 --> 02:22:13.920 not a mechanic, why should I do that? 2183 02:22:14.600 --> 02:22:18.760 Well? And there's so's there's so many ways to from 2184 02:22:18.760 --> 02:22:21.440 my perspective, to come out this problem. So take that 2185 02:22:21.840 --> 02:22:26.879 situation where he says this is a fact, or like 2186 02:22:27.040 --> 02:22:29.280 you and I've had discussions in the past where where 2187 02:22:29.319 --> 02:22:32.120 you know, they talk about reason or logic and you say, 2188 02:22:32.360 --> 02:22:35.120 what are those things? What is reason? What is logic? 2189 02:22:35.319 --> 02:22:36.040 On your view? 2190 02:22:36.239 --> 02:22:36.639 All right? 2191 02:22:36.719 --> 02:22:40.559 So when we talk about a fact, well, the fact 2192 02:22:40.600 --> 02:22:43.799 that what he's doing in that conversation is presuming to 2193 02:22:44.040 --> 02:22:46.959 have learned something at some point in the past which 2194 02:22:47.040 --> 02:22:49.879 was true about the external world and his experience. And 2195 02:22:49.959 --> 02:22:54.360 I guess everybody's external world and this is objectively true 2196 02:22:54.360 --> 02:22:56.680 in his mind, and that he can at a later 2197 02:22:56.799 --> 02:23:02.760 date pull from that capital T truth and reiterate that 2198 02:23:02.879 --> 02:23:05.479 to you as something that was once true in the 2199 02:23:05.520 --> 02:23:09.360 past and still holds to be the case. Now, the 2200 02:23:09.440 --> 02:23:14.239 problem is that in that evolutionary worldview, this is a 2201 02:23:14.360 --> 02:23:18.559 huge leap. There's no reason to believe that something that 2202 02:23:19.000 --> 02:23:22.879 was experienced or interpreted or read in the past is 2203 02:23:23.120 --> 02:23:26.159 subject to it, or excuse me, is no longer subject 2204 02:23:26.200 --> 02:23:32.280 to evolutionary change and still retains some capital T truthiness 2205 02:23:32.440 --> 02:23:35.239 to it. You follow me. In other words, So in 2206 02:23:35.280 --> 02:23:39.040 philosophy this is called in metaphysics or in epistemology, it's 2207 02:23:39.040 --> 02:23:42.239 called the problem of identity. And what it presumes is 2208 02:23:42.239 --> 02:23:46.079 that you can interpret a truth about some object and 2209 02:23:46.120 --> 02:23:54.639 that that truth maintains invariantly it's status over time. But 2210 02:23:54.719 --> 02:24:00.959 the problem is that in that worldview, nothing maintains an immaterial, 2211 02:24:01.040 --> 02:24:06.319 invariant truthfulness over time, because there's no such thing as 2212 02:24:06.319 --> 02:24:11.159 that realm of immaterial conceptual truthfulness over time. That that's 2213 02:24:11.200 --> 02:24:16.440 been canceled out. It doesn't exist. And so to spout 2214 02:24:16.479 --> 02:24:21.040 out of your mouth these platitudes about something being a 2215 02:24:21.079 --> 02:24:24.200 fact right that you learned at sometime in the past 2216 02:24:24.840 --> 02:24:28.600 is pretty laughable given what your world view says at 2217 02:24:28.639 --> 02:24:33.280 the same time about everything being subject to constant flux 2218 02:24:33.319 --> 02:24:36.440 and change. Now, there may be some Darwinian theorists or 2219 02:24:36.440 --> 02:24:40.520 revolutionary theorists who think that they have some reason to 2220 02:24:40.600 --> 02:24:46.719 believe in, you know, truthfulness or conceptual realities or mathematical 2221 02:24:46.799 --> 02:24:49.920 entities or whatever that exists outside the space and time. 2222 02:24:49.959 --> 02:24:51.920 But that's not most of them. Most of them don't 2223 02:24:52.879 --> 02:24:55.559 and they've never even thought about that as an issue 2224 02:24:55.600 --> 02:24:58.479 because that's a question that is in philosophy that they 2225 02:24:58.520 --> 02:25:02.120 think is pointless and outside the realm of empirical science. 2226 02:25:02.159 --> 02:25:05.559 But that's the problem, is that when you have a naive, 2227 02:25:05.639 --> 02:25:10.959 empirical quote science worldview, which they all have, you're begging 2228 02:25:11.000 --> 02:25:14.000 the question when people bring these kinds of issues to you, 2229 02:25:14.040 --> 02:25:15.840 and I think they are important questions, you know. I 2230 02:25:15.840 --> 02:25:18.159 guess it depends on what you think of metaphysics, but 2231 02:25:18.200 --> 02:25:20.159 in my mind those are important questions. You know. I 2232 02:25:20.200 --> 02:25:23.600 want to be able to say that, you know, I'm 2233 02:25:23.639 --> 02:25:28.319 the same jays that exists over time, that I retain 2234 02:25:28.399 --> 02:25:30.840 my identity over time, even though my body might change 2235 02:25:30.840 --> 02:25:33.879 from the time I was a kid in turning into 2236 02:25:33.920 --> 02:25:39.280 this massive, adonous hunk of a man. Nowadays, I'm still 2237 02:25:39.280 --> 02:25:43.159 the same Jay, right, And so you know, this is 2238 02:25:43.159 --> 02:25:46.079 an issue again, the problem of identity over time. But 2239 02:25:46.159 --> 02:25:50.280 this is all just thrown away by the pragmatic Arminian 2240 02:25:50.319 --> 02:25:53.040 types because they don't think it matters but the problem. 2241 02:25:53.040 --> 02:25:55.200 But they're using all these things that make sense and 2242 02:25:55.239 --> 02:25:58.200 a theistic worldview. And that's my point is that it 2243 02:25:58.200 --> 02:26:02.600 makes sense why you know, there's a unchangeable truth in 2244 02:26:02.639 --> 02:26:06.280 my view. It doesn't make sense why anything is quote 2245 02:26:06.360 --> 02:26:08.120 true over time in your worldview. 2246 02:26:09.920 --> 02:26:14.200 Yeah, yeah, I know, I see what you're getting out. 2247 02:26:14.239 --> 02:26:17.559 As far as this, well, it's like this whole idea 2248 02:26:17.559 --> 02:26:21.760 of of the concept of an art type, right, like 2249 02:26:21.879 --> 02:26:29.200 where if you have sort of an objective, unchanging standard, 2250 02:26:29.479 --> 02:26:33.559 let's say, of like what a male, an idealized male 2251 02:26:33.840 --> 02:26:37.600 or an idealized female, how would they look? It's like 2252 02:26:37.639 --> 02:26:40.399 maybe our our our imagination we think about like Adam 2253 02:26:40.440 --> 02:26:42.559 and Eve in the garden of Eden, Like what you know, 2254 02:26:43.079 --> 02:26:46.600 do we when when somebody says Adam and even in 2255 02:26:46.680 --> 02:26:49.799 our garden eating? Does the mental image come into your 2256 02:26:49.799 --> 02:26:55.079 mind of you know, the kind of typical American you know, 2257 02:26:55.200 --> 02:26:58.079 in their forties with like the big pot belly and 2258 02:26:58.120 --> 02:27:02.520 the Verico's veins and the double chin. Is that what 2259 02:27:02.600 --> 02:27:04.479 the image that comes to your mind? Or do you 2260 02:27:04.520 --> 02:27:06.440 see something? What do you see when you think of 2261 02:27:06.479 --> 02:27:15.440 Adam and e the first proto parents of all, you know, 2262 02:27:15.479 --> 02:27:20.040 the first human beings? You have a certain conception of that, 2263 02:27:20.159 --> 02:27:26.680 right yeah, sure, yeah, but it's not so. It's it's 2264 02:27:26.840 --> 02:27:33.079 this idealized form that everyone already has in their mind. 2265 02:27:33.280 --> 02:27:36.120 It's something like this or it's referred to as an 2266 02:27:36.239 --> 02:27:40.760 arc type or sure, an idealized form, right but of course, 2267 02:27:40.840 --> 02:27:45.440 like in the Darwinistic worldview, that's such a thing doesn't exist, right, 2268 02:27:45.559 --> 02:27:47.559 but you could prove it exists by doing these thought 2269 02:27:47.600 --> 02:27:50.280 exercises and and think, you know, just thinking things through, 2270 02:27:50.399 --> 02:27:56.399 Like okay, you think of like or you know, back 2271 02:27:56.440 --> 02:28:00.440 to the like domesticated dog, Well, is this a fully 2272 02:28:00.520 --> 02:28:04.000 realized dog or is a wolf more of a fully 2273 02:28:04.120 --> 02:28:08.559 realized you know what? Is it tainted or the scientific 2274 02:28:08.559 --> 02:28:11.399 classification of what that type of animal is? I think 2275 02:28:11.559 --> 02:28:15.920 everybody would agree that it's the wolf. And as opposed 2276 02:28:15.959 --> 02:28:21.959 to like a teacup poodle, you know, tea cup poodle 2277 02:28:22.040 --> 02:28:23.520 is not going to do that great in the woods. 2278 02:28:24.440 --> 02:28:27.600 But the wolf could hold their own and the like 2279 02:28:27.879 --> 02:28:32.079 the with all its instincts intact, with all its uh fur, 2280 02:28:32.440 --> 02:28:34.959 all of its stamina, all of its strength, all its 2281 02:28:35.159 --> 02:28:39.200 muscle tone. It's it's bone, it's bone density, and everything 2282 02:28:39.760 --> 02:28:44.559 is the archetype. It's the ideal. Everything that emanates from 2283 02:28:44.600 --> 02:28:54.920 that in our domestication process is lesser than in those terms, 2284 02:28:54.959 --> 02:28:57.079 then the wolf. 2285 02:28:57.319 --> 02:29:02.239 Well that's interesting, yeah, so yes, So the archetype is 2286 02:29:02.280 --> 02:29:06.879 similar to the point of forms or eternal truths absolutely, 2287 02:29:07.159 --> 02:29:10.479 And as we've talked about in the past, that's just 2288 02:29:10.520 --> 02:29:13.520 a variation on the same argument that I've made in 2289 02:29:13.680 --> 02:29:17.399 talks we've had, you know, quoting like the mathematicians about 2290 02:29:18.959 --> 02:29:23.360 you know, the principles of say the Mandelbrot set, which 2291 02:29:23.399 --> 02:29:28.079 is not a humanly devised pattern, and it can go 2292 02:29:28.159 --> 02:29:33.399 on infinitely, and it's not found in empirical data in 2293 02:29:33.440 --> 02:29:35.559 the world, right, And so there are all kinds of 2294 02:29:35.680 --> 02:29:42.559 mathematical truths that are not realizable in time space reality, 2295 02:29:42.639 --> 02:29:46.600 that are nevertheless true. And don't we all kind of inherently, 2296 02:29:46.639 --> 02:29:49.879 sort of intuitively feel that one plus one is two, right, 2297 02:29:50.799 --> 02:29:53.559 But the problem is that these are truths and the 2298 02:29:53.600 --> 02:29:59.559 truthfulness of these examples are not things subject to time 2299 02:29:59.600 --> 02:30:02.760 and space change. Now the Darwin has many of them, 2300 02:30:03.159 --> 02:30:06.159 or the philosophers of naturalism and so forth, and materialism, 2301 02:30:06.639 --> 02:30:08.719 they will try to deal with this problem, and they 2302 02:30:08.719 --> 02:30:11.680 will all admit it's a problem, and what they'll generally 2303 02:30:11.719 --> 02:30:14.920 say is that, okay, actually one plus one is not 2304 02:30:15.639 --> 02:30:18.840 equaling too. These are just social constructs. This is the 2305 02:30:18.879 --> 02:30:22.680 most popular explanation for this problem is that humans just 2306 02:30:22.719 --> 02:30:25.639 got together and decided that one plus one is two, 2307 02:30:25.959 --> 02:30:32.120 which is utterly preposterous because one thing and one thing 2308 02:30:32.200 --> 02:30:36.840 equaling two things has absolutely nothing to do with humans 2309 02:30:36.879 --> 02:30:39.879 getting together and just deciding that right from some sort 2310 02:30:39.879 --> 02:30:45.360 of practical social organization or something. Furthermore, there's also no 2311 02:30:45.479 --> 02:30:48.200 evidence of the fact that humans got together and decided 2312 02:30:48.239 --> 02:30:51.200 that one plus one is two. And were you to 2313 02:30:51.239 --> 02:30:54.319 go to any primitive tribe and you know, try to 2314 02:30:54.440 --> 02:30:57.520 cheat somebody, they're going to probably know, right, like I 2315 02:30:57.559 --> 02:31:04.840 gave you a pelt, you owe me a bag of beings, right. 2316 02:31:07.520 --> 02:31:11.000 It's In other words, mathematics is yet another example of 2317 02:31:11.040 --> 02:31:15.000 that archetypal pattern that you're talking about. And it's not 2318 02:31:15.120 --> 02:31:18.879 different from culture to culture. There may be cultures that 2319 02:31:18.920 --> 02:31:22.600 are not aware of you know, mathematics in a maybe 2320 02:31:22.639 --> 02:31:27.360 advanced sense, but there is a basic kind of numerics 2321 02:31:27.399 --> 02:31:31.280 and counting that is ancient. Goes back, right, everybody is 2322 02:31:31.399 --> 02:31:34.959 using in some way, you know, one, two, three, four, five, 2323 02:31:35.120 --> 02:31:39.360 and up to ten in primitive societies and so forth. 2324 02:31:39.440 --> 02:31:42.760 So that shows you that also that you know, there's 2325 02:31:42.799 --> 02:31:48.440 empirical evidence for it, but there's also immaterial opriori evidence 2326 02:31:48.559 --> 02:31:51.000 for it, by the matter of fact that it's it's 2327 02:31:51.440 --> 02:31:54.200 self evident to anyone that one plus one is two, 2328 02:31:54.399 --> 02:31:56.600 and that is not a truth that is subject to 2329 02:31:56.680 --> 02:32:00.920 evolutionary change. If the whole world decided tomorrow that one 2330 02:32:00.920 --> 02:32:04.959 plus one is three, it would not suddenly make bridges 2331 02:32:05.079 --> 02:32:08.760 operate on a different principle of physics. And everybody knows 2332 02:32:08.799 --> 02:32:13.680 this right, right, right, But in the Darwinian theory, for 2333 02:32:13.840 --> 02:32:17.319 most of them at least, they would have to say that, yeah, okay, Well, 2334 02:32:17.319 --> 02:32:20.200 if everybody just decided that one plus one is three, 2335 02:32:20.799 --> 02:32:23.440 then you know, that's just the evolutionary progress of man, 2336 02:32:23.479 --> 02:32:26.639 and things change, and you know, societies make up different things, 2337 02:32:26.639 --> 02:32:28.079 and you know it just changes. Man. 2338 02:32:30.319 --> 02:32:36.680 Well, you like the work too, well anymore, No, it 2339 02:32:36.680 --> 02:32:37.600 wouldn't work at all. 2340 02:32:37.760 --> 02:32:46.520 It just you know it it Uh, it's not too 2341 02:32:46.559 --> 02:32:50.399 hard to see that there's this disconnect between. 2342 02:32:51.360 --> 02:32:55.399 What is theorized. Yeah, you know, these belief systems and 2343 02:32:55.479 --> 02:33:00.040 what people actually do believe exactly when they go to 2344 02:33:00.079 --> 02:33:03.159 operate in the real world, they work off of these 2345 02:33:03.200 --> 02:33:08.719 presumptions that aren't in line with their worldview. Like I 2346 02:33:08.760 --> 02:33:13.280 talked about with the example of putting placing significance on 2347 02:33:13.440 --> 02:33:20.040 patterns in some areas and then other areas. You know, 2348 02:33:20.079 --> 02:33:23.239 they it's it's dismissed as you know, coincidence. 2349 02:33:25.159 --> 02:33:29.040 It's easy to sit around and talk about philosophize and 2350 02:33:29.079 --> 02:33:31.959 write your books and pretend that you're an intellectual and 2351 02:33:32.040 --> 02:33:34.680 say that man has no mind, has my soul, has 2352 02:33:34.680 --> 02:33:39.200 no consciousness, world just matter. Yet then when someone comes in, 2353 02:33:39.479 --> 02:33:42.239 you know, murders Richard Dawkins's wife, he's probably going to 2354 02:33:42.280 --> 02:33:45.440 be mad about it. But there's not really any reason 2355 02:33:45.639 --> 02:33:50.840 to be had. I mean, it's just no atoms bumping 2356 02:33:50.840 --> 02:33:55.440 into other atoms. So your anger at that action is 2357 02:33:57.079 --> 02:34:01.959 merely just a human social constructed the response mechanism. It 2358 02:34:02.079 --> 02:34:05.879 really has nothing to do with, you know, anything objectively evil. 2359 02:34:06.280 --> 02:34:10.959 Right, Well, according to them, yeah, so there, What what 2360 02:34:11.000 --> 02:34:12.639 are you getting uptied about? 2361 02:34:13.040 --> 02:34:14.760 You know, why why? Why go to a funeral? 2362 02:34:15.840 --> 02:34:16.280 Why? Why? 2363 02:34:16.319 --> 02:34:16.879 Why? 2364 02:34:16.920 --> 02:34:18.440 Indeed yeah,