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Speaker 1: And so it's just kind of an inner experience that

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might be manifested in different ways, but there's no external

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form to it. So you have figures like Schleiermacher, you

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have Julius Bellhausen, but it's really Bellehausen who's the pioneer

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of critiquing the texts. And Bellhausen says, the problem isn't

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really the Bible as a whole, it's actually the Old Testament.

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And what we've got to do is get rid of

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all these judaic ideas of ceremonies and calendars and going

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to some actual building and having some sort of baptism

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or whatever. All that needs to be wiped away. And

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he thought the basic way to do that would be

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to cut up the Old Testament and figure out that, oh, actually,

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none of this is really from a deity. It's actually

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a combination of different traditions. And you have what's called

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the it's called the school that has this idea of

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the documentary hypothesis. And this is where you get the

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idea of J. E. P. D. The Yahwist tradition, the

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Ylowist tradition, the priestly tradition, and the deuteronomous tradition. And

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so anytime you do any textual studies, you'll come across

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all of this, and the idea is that, oh, well, well,

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so what is it? All right, So if it's not

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from God, what is it? Well, it looks like there's

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all these different traditions J. E. P. D. Right, there's

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the Yahaist tradition, and these are the guys who at

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some point in the Old Testament were writing Genesis or whatever.

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They were using the term yahweh. Then there's this other

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group of people. They were the Elohists, and they were

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using the term eloheen. And then there was the priestly

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cast and they were using the priestly ideas, and they

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interjected the levites and the temple and the ceremonials, and

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so it's basically just a big hodgepodge of garbage according

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to Vellhausen. And so what he thought needed to be happening,

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needed to happen was purge all that Old Testament jump

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in his mind, and then you get based the simple

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message in the New Testament in Jesus. And in theological terms,

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this is really just a rehashing of the gnostic theology

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of the Early Church, where you had various teachers like

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Valentinus and other Gnostics who taught that that the Old

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Testament texts were from an evil God and that was

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a source of all problems. And really we just need

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the simple inner message of Jesus. Now. So that's a

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long winded thing, but it's important because this is where

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we're going to get to ecumenism. So I should add

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as well that Martin Luther is important in this because

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he wrote a famous treatise called against the Jews in

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their Lives, and this would be very influential in German

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movements of anti Semitism of the time of World War Two.

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It would kind of have a rebirth, not castigating Germans,

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not saying that the Jews and Zionists are good, just

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trying to state what was going on. So Luther also

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of course shared a hatred for the law for Judaism ceremonies.

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There's numerous statements in Luther's writings where he speaks explicitly

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this way. He says such things such as, I wish

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I could punch Moses' teeth out, you know. He says

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that everything in the in the Old Testament is you know,

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worthy of the trash man literally, and so This is

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where we get in Lutheran theology, the idea of the

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radical dichotomy of law and gospel. Right, So Luther had

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this idea that you go through the Bible and you

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read some textas law, toss that it out, read some

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Texas Gospel thumbs up. That's good. And so this idea

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of everything judaic, so so called needing to be purged,

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actually kind of has a precedent in Luther, and then

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it filters down to Bellhausen. And with Bellhausen and the

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documentary hypothesis, you have this idea that the entire Bible

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could be remodeled, cut up, chopped up. Now fast forward

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about one hundred years and the turn of the century

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you have the extension of that which was, hey, wait

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a minute, the documentary hypothesis is not just good enough.

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We actually need the Jesus quest. And so the Jesus

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quest is this idea that we need to get to

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the real sources of Jesus. And said they said, well,

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the New Testaments the exact same way. It's all from

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a bunch of different sources. It's a munch of gobblygoog

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It doesn't mean anything. It's just a reflection of the

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Jewish Messianism and millennialism of the first century, and so

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it has a whole bunch of competing contradictory sources. And

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these would be things like the enigmatic queue that you'll

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learn about in textual studies. And there is no such

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thing as que. It's very much like Darwinism. It's just

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a hypothesized source for something like the Gospel of Mark. Now,

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curious side note, in textuals this is actually no longer

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even adhere to the cutting edged so called progressive academia.

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If you go to places like Yale University, you can

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clind lectures of the debunking of Q. All right, but

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the Q was actually very popular for many years as

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a supposed source of various sections of the New Testament. So,

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as we see, this is always in progress. There's not

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any real consistency, and you'll still find scholars citing Queue,

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even though the cutting edge liberal scholars no longer adhere

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to it. So it's another one of these things like Darwinism,

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where it's all in the scientific realm of academia, and

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it's just kind of trends, is really all it is.

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It's just waves of trends that come and go, and

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just like with Darlinism, when you get into looking at

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textual studies, you'll find out how much of this actually

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has absolutely no basis whatsoever. All are at some point

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who came up with an idea, came up with a theory,

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somebody probably put monetary backing behind it, some banking interests

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that like that, and the idea goes the viral, I

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guess you could say, and then all the universities then

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promote the documentary hypothesis or Q or whatever, and everybody

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just oh, yeah, well, that's just true. We know that's true.

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And however, I guarantee you ninety five percent of the

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people who will talk or have been influenced by these

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theories have not actually done much textual research. They went

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to some seminary or university that was infected with this

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idea and they believe it because they were told it

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without having actually looked into the problems with it or

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evidence to the contrary. So how do we get to

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acumunism from all this modernism? Well, so modernism in the

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realm of religion and theology in church is an outworking

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I would say of this ideology, this ideology of higher critics,

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because it says, hey, you are foundational documents that you

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believe in this religion. They're not true. So it's time

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to update, buddy, get with the times. Look, we've got

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Darwinism now, and all the higher critics, I should add,

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we're very much influenced by process philosophy, process theology. I

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mentioned Schleiermacher earlier. That's processed theology and manual kant right

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and empiricism. And so you can see how as we

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get into the time of the Jesus Quest, now we're

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getting you know, post Darwin. Oh, everything is subject to change,

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and so certainly documents must be subject to change because

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they don't have any divine source. They must simply have

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some human source, just some guy running them down the

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sociological interpretation of religion or whatever anthropological interpretation. So the

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texts are merely you know, human symbols and allegories. They

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don't have any real meaning. And so therefore your churches

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have to be updated. You've got to get with the times.

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And this is really what you see promoted at the

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time of modernism. And I can even tell you, you know,

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the different responses and theologians in the different churches who

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are promoting this. So you have and for example, in

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Presbyterianism in the US, you have this is a big

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controversy I think in the nineteen twenties with what's called

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the pc USA and it is thornwell foreign, I forget things.

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That guy's name. We've talked about him before in regards

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to Riverside Church, which is the Rockefeller Church, and they

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had a pc USA minister, Charles Henry Thorn whatever the

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guy's I know that the guy's name always escapes me.

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But he was all in that's it, that's it. Yeah,

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he was all into the and Jefferson Masonry and all

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you know, this is the church that has the statue

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of Moses next to Darawan, next to Thomas Jefferson, and

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it is so you have this. I believe on the

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front of the Century nineteen oh four or five some

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sort of international congress or religions of some sort. And

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I don't think yet that the Rockefellers were intimately involved

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in this, but this was people who had a lot

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of Hindu ideology, and Hinduism is very syncretistic, and they thought,

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what we need to do is kind of move Western

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religions into the direction of Eastern thought.

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Speaker 2: No, real, real quick, let me let me add something

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in there, just real fast to stay on what you

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want to talk about. But it's interesting that you bought

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a Hinduism because one of this kind of collides with

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what was going on in California at the same time,

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with the evangelical movement of the turn of the century. Yes,

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I was gonna mention and with what was called, you know,

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the Gospels of Wealth or you know, new thoughts and

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forgetting all were Yeah, the Gospel, all those things you know, Yes,

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and all of those things. Interestingly in us, all of

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those ideas which still today proliferates through Christianity, most of

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those ideas actually come from theosophy. There were a lot

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of a lot of the evangelicals in the beginning were

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into theosophy.

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Speaker 1: Yes, this congress of religions that I'm trying to think

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of that is nineteen oh four or five or maybe eight,

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late eighteen nineties, this would include a lot of people

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who would be instrumental in charismaticism. So you're absolutely right.

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And the charismatic movement has its origin around the same

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time in the Azuza Street Revival in California. So you're

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absolutely right. And the reason that charismaticism with factor into

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this is that the idea in charismatic movement would be

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it's no longer about the book. It's no longer about

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what's in you know, New Testament or Old Testament. It's

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now about your direct experience. And this experience is not

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it doesn't necessarily have any consistent content. It could just

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simply be you know, your emotional hype, your reactions to

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the music, you know, and with the drum and the

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bass and all that, and the band playing and you know,

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flopping around in the aisles. Anything is a legitimate potential

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experience of the quote spirit. So this existential phenomena or

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this this existential emotional experience is what takes over from

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any of the older notions, be it Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox

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or whatever of that. You know, believing what's in the text,

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going to a building and worshiping in a certain liturgical

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fashion or whatever. It's now about ecstatic experience in emotionalism,

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I would say. And so you're absolutely right. So the

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charismatic movement would be very influential in spreading a humanism

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precisely because it's all about a individual subjective experience. The

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charismaticism also has its origins in Pietistic movement, which comes

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out of the Reformation. As I mentioned earlier and with

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a Kant, for example, was raised as a Pietist. His

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mother was a Pietistic German Protestant, and Pietism thought that

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it was a count of reaction to what's called Protestant scholasticism.

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So at the time of the Reformation, you had the reformers,

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and then you had the Roman Catholic response with the

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counter Reformation, and then you had as a response on

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the part of the Protestants what's called the Protestant scholasticism.

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And so this would be like Francis Turitan or Philip

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Melancthon Luther's body, and what they would do is try

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to offer a you know, extended academic scholastic response, you know,

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to their opponent, much like medieval scholastics of Thomas Aquinas

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or somebody like that. A response to that arid, dry, technical,

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abstruse perspective is Pietism. And this flourished mainly in Germany,

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and its Pietism that would come to influence the Anabaptist

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so that when you talk about Baptists Baptists actually descend

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from the Anabaptists, who are connected to the Pietists. So

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that's why we have these different movements today. They kind

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of trace back through these different ideologies. But you're absolutely right.

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Modernism is intimately connected with the early charismatic and new

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thought movements. I should add real quick as well, there

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was a controversy in American Christianity with New Light and

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Old Light Presbyterian And now this goes back to like

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John Edwards and Princeton, the founding of Princeton University and

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so forth, where you had these old stuffy Calvinists, and

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then you have these other Calvinists who at the behest

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of the preaching sinners in the hands of an angry God.

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By Jonathan Edwards, people started having these charismatic experiences, like

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Jonathan Edwards would preach about how bad hell was, and

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people started flopping around and crying and freaking out right.

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And so the idea was, oh, this is a you know,

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this is a revival, this is a movement of the spirit.

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Contrary to that, you had other Presbyterians who were the

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old line Presbyterians who were saying, no, no, no, you can't

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have that. This is we believe in predestination, election, Calvinism,

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et cetera. You can't have these these manifestations like this

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emotionalism and whatnot. This is not of God, it's of

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the devil. And so you had this split in Presbyterianism

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at that time. And out of this, if I recall,

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out of this new Presbyterian movement would become American Revivalism.

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So American revivalism also plays into this where you have

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Methodists and Baptists and different preachers who would were part

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of the Western expansion movement, and they would there were

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circuit preachers, and you would have like a Methodist guy

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who would get on his horse and he would ride

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out to the westward moving you know, families and so

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forth who probably didn't have a minister. And so the

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minister would come maybe once a month that he would

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come and preach his healthfire sermon and that he wouldn't

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ride his horse aw to the next colony or whatever.

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And this is also influential in American revivalism. And so

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revivalism is very important for charismaticism and also very important

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for ultimately accumenism. So you're on the right track, I

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would say, John, and so all of these movements collide,

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but they're also very useful from the perspective of social engineering.

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And I would cite as perfect proof of that the

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Berkeley lecture of Aldus Suxley. In that talk, Aldus actually says,

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you know what we're going to do in the future

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when we social engineer everybody. He says, we're actually going

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to borrow the techniques of the revivalist preachers and the

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fear tactics of someone like Jonathan Edwards and Methodist preachers

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and so forth John Wesley, and we're going to actually

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use those fear and terror tech techniques of the pastor

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in the government. And so what Huxley is telling you

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there is that the war on terror is pretty much

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like you know, Jesse duplanis or Benny hen banging his

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banging his fist up on the podium right and telling

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you you're going to help. So just an interesting side

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note there if you look up the Huxley lecture. But yeah,

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so modernism has all an influence from all those strands

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in the Roman Catholic communion. If this is a very

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fascinating story too, because I know that you guys would

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probably have the perspective that Rome was always controlled. I

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don't take that view, having experienced Catholicism for a good time,

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I think that Rome had a lot of power, temporal

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power especially, and wanted to maintain it. And if you

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look at, for example, the history of the Republic of Italy,

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you'll have periods where Pious the Ninth, who actually shared

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a lot of the Masonic and socialist and republican ideals

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as a youth, as he when he became the pope.

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This is like eighteen nineties or so, eighteen eighties and nineties,

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the revolution turned on him and the Pope was actually

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walled up in the Vatican, scared to come out because

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the revolutionaries were going to behead them or something. This

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is what resulted in the calling of the Vatican One,

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where there was papal and fallibility. Anyway, a little bit

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prior to this, or excuse me, a little bit after this,

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was a pope by the name of Leo the thirteenth,

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and Leo the thirteenth heard about the movements of Masonry

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in different countries to not just get rid of monarchs

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and to establish republics, but also to get rid of

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the Church. And so I do think that there was

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a real historical battle between Masonry and Roman Catholicism and

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ultimately most Christian and mainline churches. And so in each

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of the different churches that the battle plays out differently.

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But in Roman Catholicism you have kind of an outright

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battle with French Revolution and so forth, and you have

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a whole string of people and cyclicals issued against Masonry.

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And I would argue that it is mainly through the

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Jesuits that the free Masonic ideals really gained sway and

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power in the Roman Catholic Church. And that is why

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the Jesuits would be instrumental in liberation theology with Marxist

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ties and so forth. And Marxism of course has ties

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ultimately to Freemasonry and Illuminism, and so the Jesuits pioneer

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not just a liberation theology, but also a kind of

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a rival to the papacy. And this is why when

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you look at the history of the relationship of the

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papacy to the heads of the Jesuit order, you will

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find a back and forth swing of power. I'm not

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saying that that makes all the Postes good and all

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the Jesuits bad. I'm just saying that this is, you know,

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what I get from church history as I've researched it.

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So there'll be times where where the Jesuits were suppressed,

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and there'll be times where they were hailed as you know,

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heroes of the church, and so forth. You would have

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traditions saying that, you know, Jesuits can't be pope, and

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so forth and so on. And so what Leo the

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thirteenth discovered was that there was a Masonic plot to

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no longer destroy the papacy, but actually to use it.

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And this is a famous document called the ultav Indita. Now,

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certainly people would debate the authenticity of the altave Indeta

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lodge and so forth. It's plans inasmuch as it promised,

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it proposed the idea to co opt the papacy, not

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destroy it, and to use it to bring in a

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new religion, a new world religion in fact. And you

318
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can actually read the altave Indiza documents on a book

319
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on that by John Venari, I believe, And then you

320
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can also read Leo wrote a famous and cyclical called

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Humanum and Janus about masonry. So I believe that that

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was a real war, and there were different factions, and

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there's always been different factions in the papacy and the

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cardinals and so forth. And I would say that by

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the twentieth century you have pretty much a complete victory

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of the New Old Order Masonic power over the papacy,

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and that came to the flowering at Vatican two. Vatican

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two is going to be very important for this because

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that is a humanism in the Roman Church having its

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complete victory. Now, so I'm moving up a little bit.

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By the time that Ntedict the fourteenth i believe, or

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fifteenth one of the two, you have a beginning of

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a crack in the papal perspective on Acumenism and the

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Western globalist so to speak. Prior to this they've been

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very critical of it. And Benedict the fifteenth, whichever guy is,

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the time of World War One in the League of Nations,

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he says, oh, you know what, maybe the League of

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Nations is a good thing. So prior to this, the

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papacy have been very critical of Americanism and American policies

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and Western democratic policies generally speaking. Now they started to

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crack on it. Then you have a belief. His successor

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was Pious the eleventh, who wrote a famous and cyclical

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called Mortalium animal and in this document he addresses the

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ecumenical movement explicitly. This is around nineteen twenty eight or so,

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and he says that this is a complete destruction of

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the Christian religion. So it's starting to make it it's

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starting to make its encroachment into Roman Catholicism. Even in

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the twenties, you had a famous document by previous pope

349
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I should have mentioned called Pachindi Dominici gregis of Pious

350
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the tenth, and this is a famous and cyclical that

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addresses modernism in total and there he calls it the

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complete destruction of the Christian religion as well. Or the

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reason Pius the tenth is relevant is that for Roman

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Catholics he's one of the last popes to be declared

355
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a saint. So the in cyclical of Pius the tenth

356
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would be considered, you know, to have a special authority

357
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for Roman Catholics. This is all abandoned by the time

358
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of John the twenty third, Right, Pius the twelve, this

359
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is like in the forties and fifties is generally believed

360
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to be kind of the last quasi traditional pope. John

361
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the twenty third comes along and he writes a famous

362
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and cyclical called pacham in Terras, which is about the

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relationship of the world and economics to the Church. And

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it's the first paper and cyclical to kind of call

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for a global government. So this is sixties. And then

366
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you have the calling of Vatican Two, which would be

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hugely influential for the whole the Catholic world. And there

368
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a Vatican Two, you have the blessing of the ecumenical movement.

369
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You have the complete reversal of what had been said

370
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even back in the twenties and thirties, complete reversal. Two. Yes,

371
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now it's good. Now the un is good. We have

372
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to follow the dictates of the UN. It's all good.

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Ecumenism is good, etcetera, etcetera. So that's kind of a

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brief my perspective on the Roman Catholic Communion in the

375
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last one hundred years and what happened with them. Thing

376
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happened in the Greek Orthodox Church. You have in the

377
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:07,640
Orthodox world as a whole, Greek Orthodoxy surrenders, begins to

378
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surrender because they have an actual Masonic patriarch in Greece

379
00:24:12,839 --> 00:24:18,839
by the name of Malicius. Milicius Metaxas Metaxakis, excuse me.

380
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It was the patriarch of Constantinople, a Greek guy from

381
00:24:23,519 --> 00:24:26,880
nineteen twenty one to twenty three, and he was openly

382
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a member of a Mosonic lodge. He was a member

383
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:35,279
of the Harmonia Lodge in the Grand Lodge of Greece,

384
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,759
and the Grand Lodge of Greece's own website cites him

385
00:24:38,799 --> 00:24:41,279
as a member. So this is not a conspiracy theory.

386
00:24:41,759 --> 00:24:44,119
Now why is this relevant. Well, one thing that he

387
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:48,680
did was begin this process that would become a kind

388
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of a controversy in the Orthodox world of changing the calendar.

389
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Now that might not sound like a big deal, but

390
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for a person who has a Catholic or an Orthodox perspective,

391
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you know, the day that you celebrate Easter and stuff

392
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,640
like that is important to you. So the idea of

393
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:10,279
a complete change in these things is could be very upsetting,

394
00:25:10,519 --> 00:25:13,759
especially to you know, kind of the more simple believers

395
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,359
of you know, your mom and your pop types who

396
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:18,640
don't really care about theology, but they're used to you know, oh,

397
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:20,519
we have Easter this way. It's always been that way

398
00:25:20,559 --> 00:25:21,920
when I was a kid. You know, this is how

399
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:22,240
it is.

400
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,839
Speaker 2: And one of the things, and you're real quick when something.

401
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:30,799
Speaker 3: Well.

402
00:25:31,599 --> 00:25:33,039
Speaker 2: And I'm not saying to see you, I'm saying this

403
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,799
to the audience. You know, we're not in any way

404
00:25:35,839 --> 00:25:39,559
critiquing people's belief systems or what it is that they

405
00:25:39,599 --> 00:25:43,720
hold beer to them in this particular time period. Now,

406
00:25:44,079 --> 00:25:47,279
this is kind of going over a history of it

407
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:52,559
and then looking at change in the belief systems as

408
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:57,519
the mechanism for a feeling change in other areas of life.

409
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,640
And so if you can work about change in the religion,

410
00:26:02,039 --> 00:26:04,680
you can bring about change in culture, you could bring

411
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:11,279
about change economically. It's changed all over the entire spectrum

412
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,960
at this particular time in history, in the early part

413
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,720
of the twentieth century. The twentieth century is the century

414
00:26:18,759 --> 00:26:24,640
of change, absolutely so. And so that's what you're getting here,

415
00:26:24,799 --> 00:26:28,359
is you're seeing a fundamental change. It's an interesting thing too,

416
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:33,680
because as you see these fundamental changes in people belief systems,

417
00:26:34,079 --> 00:26:38,200
it is a very subtle change in the belief systems,

418
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,960
and it's changes where people are not even being made

419
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,759
aware of that. There's changes going on where it's where

420
00:26:46,799 --> 00:26:49,640
your pastor is saying something one day and then the

421
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,359
next day he's saying Oh yes, I think a global

422
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:55,440
government is a good thing, and it's kind of like

423
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,319
something that just passes like a fart in church.

424
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:04,039
Speaker 3: Yeah now, and so so that's I just wanted to

425
00:27:04,079 --> 00:27:08,599
interject that this study here, you know about you know

426
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,519
what Chris and I have been talking about California, and

427
00:27:10,519 --> 00:27:13,319
then this particular niche of it with religion is to

428
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,079
show that modernism of itself is fostering change in the

429
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:18,519
twentieth century.

430
00:27:18,599 --> 00:27:23,279
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and it's intimately tied into Darwinism. That's not a

431
00:27:23,319 --> 00:27:28,119
conspiracy theory. That is, if you look at modernists, thinkers,

432
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:31,400
and writers in any of these different fields, whether it's

433
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:38,279
religion or academia, textual studies, education. Just finished a book

434
00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,720
on the history of American education, and it's full of

435
00:27:41,799 --> 00:27:45,480
quotes of all the sort of founding fathers, so to speak,

436
00:27:45,559 --> 00:27:48,759
of American public education, and they all have the exact

437
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:53,799
same Darwinian view of process and change. Nothing is true,

438
00:27:54,319 --> 00:27:59,039
nothing remains because everything is subject to the ultimate principles

439
00:27:59,079 --> 00:28:02,119
of Darwin and they all say that like explicitly. And

440
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,759
so this spills into religion as well. And the reason

441
00:28:05,799 --> 00:28:07,799
I mentioned the calendar is not to bring up some

442
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:13,640
boring point, but The reason that the Orthodox started changing

443
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,359
their calendar was because they wanted to be in line

444
00:28:16,519 --> 00:28:19,720
with the pope, which historically, if you don't know that,

445
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,680
the Eastern Orthodox Church disagrees with the idea of people

446
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,960
and fallibility, so they're two different churches. But there was

447
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,599
this movement called Acumenism, which said, hey, why don't we

448
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,440
just get together, Let's put aside the differences nothing. And

449
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,640
it might think, well, well, who cares about a calendar, Well,

450
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,960
the calendar itself may not be an issue of salvation,

451
00:28:38,119 --> 00:28:41,079
but that's not the point. The point is that the

452
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:46,079
ideology of change was such that it was moving everything

453
00:28:46,119 --> 00:28:51,720
into a convergence, not based on truth or falsity, but

454
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,640
on social engineering. And that's really what it's about. Because

455
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:57,880
the patriarchs that we want to be back with Rome,

456
00:28:58,799 --> 00:29:01,400
forget the theology. Let's just do whatever it takes to

457
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,680
merge everyone. And this is what happened at Vatican two

458
00:29:06,119 --> 00:29:08,319
in the Roman Catholic Church, where they did the exact

459
00:29:08,519 --> 00:29:10,680
same thing. They said, let's all adopt a new calendar,

460
00:29:11,759 --> 00:29:15,759
let's forget the differences, let's all come together, which sounds

461
00:29:15,799 --> 00:29:18,359
all nice and warm and fuzzy, but that's not what

462
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,839
it's about it's not about being nice and wrmon fuzzy.

463
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,440
This is all at the behest of monetary elites who

464
00:29:25,519 --> 00:29:28,279
are putting the funding behind all of this. Right, So,

465
00:29:28,319 --> 00:29:31,759
you have the World Council of Churches established by the

466
00:29:31,839 --> 00:29:36,319
Rockefellers National Council Churches in the US, and this is

467
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:40,039
these groups all receive money from the same sources, all

468
00:29:40,039 --> 00:29:44,359
the usual suspects carnegiese, Rockefellers, Morgan, et cetera, et cetera.

469
00:29:45,039 --> 00:29:47,440
And this is really their means by which they're going

470
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:52,319
to steer the religious sector of society. And it's all

471
00:29:52,319 --> 00:29:55,599
one hundred percent documented. It's in the Rockefeller's biography by

472
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,400
Collier and Horowitz, which is all authorized. David Rockefeller talks

473
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,839
about it openly. And it's not just the Rock Dollers.

474
00:30:02,839 --> 00:30:04,880
And there's a lot of interests involved in this, the

475
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,240
Pentagon on the government, you know, they're interested in having

476
00:30:07,759 --> 00:30:13,200
their agents in place in different churches. But so yeah,

477
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,680
so all of the strands that we've mentioned, I think

478
00:30:16,079 --> 00:30:21,000
it all come together to produce the idea of a

479
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:25,839
super religion, a super megalithic New World religion. And that's

480
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,039
one hunder true. And you have plenty of writers in

481
00:30:29,119 --> 00:30:32,039
every different tradition talking about it and warning about it.

482
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,079
So you know, I could give you a list of

483
00:30:34,119 --> 00:30:37,880
twenty books on that as well. An interesting topic too

484
00:30:38,079 --> 00:30:41,920
that proves this is again one of the usual suspects.

485
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,200
Altu Suxley wrote a whole book on this and it's

486
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:48,599
called the Perennial Philosophy. So you could actually class obviously

487
00:30:48,759 --> 00:30:51,920
kind of in the tradition of traditionalism as it's called,

488
00:30:52,039 --> 00:30:55,000
or perennialism, and this would be people like a rennagan On,

489
00:30:55,680 --> 00:31:01,200
Alexander Dugan, Rama, Kumar Slami and so forth. And this

490
00:31:01,279 --> 00:31:03,720
is the idea of blending all the religions together. And

491
00:31:03,799 --> 00:31:06,359
so that's what Huxley says in the book print a Philosophy,

492
00:31:06,359 --> 00:31:09,680
says the new world religion will be all religions blended together,

493
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,640
and that's where we need to go. And he also

494
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,240
explicitly says that what has to be gotten rid of

495
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,119
is the idea of distinctions of differences. That you have

496
00:31:18,279 --> 00:31:21,799
your tradition that you that you can carry on, and

497
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:23,680
all that's going to be done away with, he says,

498
00:31:23,759 --> 00:31:29,440
so that all individuals can meld into the absolute. And

499
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,000
this is what we see the UN promoting. That's why

500
00:31:32,039 --> 00:31:36,559
he was, you know, foundational in Unesco and his family.

501
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,240
This is why the Rockefellers are promoting, I mean, excuse

502
00:31:40,279 --> 00:31:43,000
of the rum Catholic Church begins promoting the UN after

503
00:31:43,119 --> 00:31:48,200
formerly saying it was evil. Right, So so there you go.

504
00:31:48,279 --> 00:31:51,440
I mean that I apologize for being so long winded there.

505
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:55,039
Speaker 2: But I actually I wanted to bring some whip. I

506
00:31:55,039 --> 00:31:57,480
wanted you to talk about. I'm sure you will. Are

507
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:01,200
you familiar with Reverend Austin who was one of the

508
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,680
first Rockefeller funded preachers.

509
00:32:03,839 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: That's who I met, is that he was the Riverside

510
00:32:07,319 --> 00:32:09,599
Church guy. That's what I meant earlier I couldn't think

511
00:32:09,599 --> 00:32:09,960
of the name.

512
00:32:11,079 --> 00:32:14,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's the one who who wrote a he

513
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,680
wrote a sermon that came out and said that we

514
00:32:18,799 --> 00:32:21,799
got to get rid of all of the old, old

515
00:32:21,839 --> 00:32:26,480
ways and old ideas. And then Rock John b. Rockfeller said, well, yeah,

516
00:32:26,519 --> 00:32:29,079
that sounds good. We need to make him ahead of

517
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:35,160
the Riverside Church and you know, promote that idea. And

518
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:39,960
then the Rockefeller's funded the printing of that sermon and

519
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,599
had it sent out to like every church in the country.

520
00:32:44,279 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly, And.

521
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's how it's done. Another and then so so

522
00:32:53,759 --> 00:32:55,920
another thing that's fun. You know, let me read a

523
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,599
little I just wanted to read a little line out

524
00:32:58,599 --> 00:33:05,000
of this book. And if anybody is actually interested in

525
00:33:05,039 --> 00:33:08,960
what we're talking about here, there's a good book that

526
00:33:09,079 --> 00:33:11,160
kind of sums a lot of things up having to

527
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,480
do with a particular niche of this called the Prosperity Gospel.

528
00:33:14,519 --> 00:33:22,359
And it's called Blessed by the author Kate Bohler, And

529
00:33:22,359 --> 00:33:27,400
and it's kind of just a it's a layman summary

530
00:33:27,519 --> 00:33:37,480
of this big, huge subjects here. But Professor Bowley here

531
00:33:37,599 --> 00:33:43,440
she writes, uh, she's she's talking about the new thoughts

532
00:33:43,559 --> 00:33:47,720
mind power, and this is what we're going to get

533
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:53,359
into here in a minute. The historian of metaphysics, Catherine

534
00:33:53,359 --> 00:33:59,000
Albany's christened it mental magic for its use of vision, imagination, affirmation,

535
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:04,000
affirmative press, and in interiority that focused on self mastery.

536
00:34:04,319 --> 00:34:06,880
With Albany is called mental magic. We will call mind

537
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:13,320
power because it's discourse of control n FCS and FC

538
00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:20,480
calls on the role of thought and speech. Victorian America

539
00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:24,119
was a hotbed of mind power, bursting the trans and

540
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:30,639
demolism spiritualism Freemasonry, Christian science, and a particular interest here

541
00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:35,400
an option of Christian science called new thought. Out of

542
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:40,679
this miasma came the thinkers who nurtured a particular species

543
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:44,199
of mind power, planting the seeds of the present day

544
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:49,840
prosperity gospel. Then we moved forward into the nineteen fifties

545
00:34:51,119 --> 00:34:53,800
and one beginning of the World Council of Churches and

546
00:34:53,960 --> 00:35:00,559
a particular pastor coming out of New York where the

547
00:35:00,639 --> 00:35:05,519
Rockfellers promote things, and that would be mister Roman Vincent Peel.

548
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,239
And there's a big history on the back side of

549
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,880
what mind power and what became known as positive thinking.

550
00:35:14,079 --> 00:35:17,440
Call the Norman Vincent Peel's book The Power of Positive Thinking.

551
00:35:17,679 --> 00:35:23,559
There's a myriad of of shuckers and hivers and hucksters

552
00:35:23,599 --> 00:35:25,440
and you know.

553
00:35:26,519 --> 00:35:31,599
Speaker 1: Yes, like Schueler would kind of be his successor.

554
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,559
Speaker 2: Right, But I'm saying like before that, even before that,

555
00:35:35,639 --> 00:35:37,920
in the nineteen hundreds and twenties and thirties, there were

556
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,920
all these like the guys you see jumping around on

557
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:45,039
TV in the eighties, nineties and today, there were guys

558
00:35:45,079 --> 00:35:50,119
like that back in the twenties pushing, pushing mind power

559
00:35:50,159 --> 00:35:53,119
and word of faith. And things like that, and people

560
00:35:53,159 --> 00:35:56,519
don't even realize that a lot of the same things

561
00:35:56,519 --> 00:36:00,559
they believe today in Christianity and prosperity God will have

562
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:05,320
absolutely nothing to do with anything with Christianity. It literally

563
00:36:05,519 --> 00:36:09,760
was crafted in the early nineteen hundreds and it comes

564
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:13,880
along into this new age idea that people still get

565
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,159
pushed on today with self help books, that you can

566
00:36:16,559 --> 00:36:20,880
speak your reality into existence, the manifest your reality. And

567
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,199
that was all part of Christianity and prosperity gospel, where

568
00:36:25,039 --> 00:36:28,119
you know, you don't just pray for stuff, you speak,

569
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:37,559
you command God's power to make things happen. And then

570
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,719
the Rockefellers and the industrialists in general, including Carbigie and

571
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:49,880
all that, they funded the idea of the a prosperity

572
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,679
gospel in a sort of a different way where it

573
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:56,440
was all had to do with hard work and dedication,

574
00:36:56,679 --> 00:37:01,800
the dedication to your to working hard and being a

575
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:06,039
hard working American because that's what they wanted their workers

576
00:37:06,079 --> 00:37:11,679
to be in their factories. Yeah, and so they paid

577
00:37:11,679 --> 00:37:18,360
their creatures to equate godliness and righteousness with hard work,

578
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:22,599
and so that became a staple of Americana as time

579
00:37:22,679 --> 00:37:26,639
went on. Even though once again there has absolutely nothing

580
00:37:26,679 --> 00:37:30,519
to do with the origins of Christianity whatsoever, and it

581
00:37:30,639 --> 00:37:34,679
was tagged onto that and has stuck with us ever since.

582
00:37:35,519 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 1: Yes, Axe Baber's book on this. Although I would not

583
00:37:40,159 --> 00:37:44,679
obviously consider myself any kind of old line German socialist,

584
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:50,199
Max Baber's book on the Protestant work ethic is accurate

585
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:54,679
and he's right to connect it to Puritanism. Interesting you

586
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,440
mentioned that about the hard work and all that and

587
00:37:57,519 --> 00:38:01,840
being a good slave to the global capitalists, because that

588
00:38:02,159 --> 00:38:06,760
is also influenced by a Puritanical Calvinist tradition, again going

589
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,280
back to the New Light and old Light Presbyterians and

590
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:15,599
American Revivalism. And so I remember when I was in

591
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:17,800
high school, I used to work at a paint store

592
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,840
and this weird guy that lived in town. I think

593
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,679
it was a contractor, I don't know. He saw me

594
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:25,519
reading philosophy one day when I was I don't know,

595
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:30,119
nineteen twenty, he started bringing me books, and believe it

596
00:38:30,199 --> 00:38:34,199
or not, for what For a reason, this guy would

597
00:38:34,199 --> 00:38:38,199
bring me books out of the school of thought of

598
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,400
what you're talking about, right, So I remember one day

599
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:43,000
he's like, you read that arm and Man's Pale. I

600
00:38:43,079 --> 00:38:45,559
was like, Nah, I don't really care about that. I'm

601
00:38:45,559 --> 00:38:47,320
gonna bring you a book. So he started to bring

602
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:49,239
me that. He brought me a book back guy named

603
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,440
Vernon Howard, and he Vernon Howard is one of these guys,

604
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,679
like you're talking about the New Thought self awareness movement.

605
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,480
A lot of this would of course be found a

606
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:04,199
fundamental for the coming New Age movement. And so he

607
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,719
brought me like Krishna Murty, who, by the way, I

608
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:09,320
was trying to think of who it was that was

609
00:39:10,199 --> 00:39:13,400
formative in the early beginnings of a humanism, and it

610
00:39:13,519 --> 00:39:15,559
was Jidu Krishna Murty.

611
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:21,159
Speaker 2: He's one of the yeah, friend California.

612
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 1: So this yeah, so this weird contractor would just like

613
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,159
every month he could come up and bring me some

614
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:30,119
book from like you know, self help, weird stuff from

615
00:39:30,159 --> 00:39:33,119
like nineteen thirty or forty. And this is where you

616
00:39:33,159 --> 00:39:37,639
get into Gerdjieff, right, and the fourth way Gerdjieff would

617
00:39:37,639 --> 00:39:40,639
be very influential for a lot of these guys that

618
00:39:40,679 --> 00:39:44,960
you're talking about. But the Gurgia stuff is weird because

619
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,519
it also kind of has a lot of occult influences

620
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:52,920
transnow meditation type stuff. But really what gerdev was doing

621
00:39:53,039 --> 00:39:54,840
was just trying to create you know, I think his

622
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,440
own religion blending a bunch of stuff. You know, I've

623
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,159
got a new way to do it. You know, I'm

624
00:40:00,159 --> 00:40:04,280
a mix of a Roman Catholic monastic and a Yogi

625
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,800
and a fuck here, and it's all blended into you know,

626
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:11,360
a new new package for you. And that's also what

627
00:40:11,599 --> 00:40:13,760
you know, the ecumenical movement is because it doesn't have

628
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:18,800
any really real substance. It's all about do your thing,

629
00:40:19,679 --> 00:40:22,760
but be sure that your thing you're doing is in

630
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:27,840
accord with what the Globo state is okay with? Right,

631
00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:31,360
So you can have your little you know, ceremony or whatever,

632
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,559
just so long as you're going along with you know,

633
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:39,440
the main strategies of the system.

634
00:40:39,519 --> 00:40:43,199
Speaker 2: Well, you're allowed to have fundamentals in your religion as

635
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:47,800
long as your fundamentals are accept everybody, even if they

636
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:49,920
don't believe in the same thing you do. So if

637
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,239
you're one of your fundamentals is you know, I don't

638
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:56,280
accept your religion or your belief system, then that part

639
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,119
of your religion needs to go.

640
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it has to be relt visit exactly. Yeah.

641
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,559
Speaker 4: It's interesting how the the prosperity gospel to name it

642
00:41:08,599 --> 00:41:12,079
and claim it and all that. Uh. If you think

643
00:41:12,119 --> 00:41:15,440
about freemasonry, a lot of from what I understand, a

644
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:19,320
lot of people will get into freemasonry as a way

645
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:23,480
to uh make you know, business connections and to get

646
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:30,400
sort of a foothold in business and you know, and

647
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:35,920
get some advantage there. And it it's interesting that uh

648
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:40,159
so much of so called it's called Christianity. It's not

649
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:43,519
it's not Christianity, but it's it focuses in on that.

650
00:41:43,599 --> 00:41:48,760
It's it's about I know I've heard this before different people.

651
00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:50,719
You know, you talk and you get you get the

652
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:54,400
gist of what's going ox. I never really when I

653
00:41:54,519 --> 00:41:56,519
used to go to church. I didn't attend any of

654
00:41:56,559 --> 00:41:59,320
these big churches or mega churches or anything like that.

655
00:42:00,039 --> 00:42:03,039
But talking to people that did, you always get the

656
00:42:03,079 --> 00:42:10,360
impression that, yeah, they used the whole you know, going

657
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:13,960
to church as a way to network, a way to

658
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:19,400
get you know, dredge up business and to connect with people.

659
00:42:19,519 --> 00:42:25,320
And I think in a lot of ways what that

660
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:30,239
does too, it makes uh it you know, to take Christianity,

661
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,559
turn it into something else and turn to the focus,

662
00:42:33,159 --> 00:42:37,559
uh make it in line with you know, our our

663
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:42,800
modern consumerist, materialist culture that it gave it like its

664
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:47,480
own sort of different uh, relevancy in in the in

665
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,559
the system, you know, where it wouldn't have had that

666
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,119
if it was it wasn't for that. Yeah, so that

667
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,280
you know, everything in our culture and society is is

668
00:42:57,679 --> 00:43:00,000
you know, centered around money and the entertainment of mind

669
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:05,559
and material goods, and uh, yeah, the churches have to

670
00:43:06,039 --> 00:43:09,679
align with that to one degree or another. But yeah,

671
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:16,840
it's also interesting too how that is part of like witchcraft,

672
00:43:17,119 --> 00:43:19,280
you know, and and that sort of thing is like

673
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:22,800
you it's just the idea that you're gonna appeal to

674
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:26,119
the spirit realm to get the spirits to do you

675
00:43:26,519 --> 00:43:29,880
favors and stuff, you know, like like the way they

676
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:32,639
throw curses on people and they do stuff but whatever,

677
00:43:33,159 --> 00:43:35,679
something that would get them an advantage over other people.

678
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:38,519
Well here that's kind of like the idea behind it.

679
00:43:39,159 --> 00:43:40,280
Speaker 1: Here's an interesting thing.

680
00:43:40,559 --> 00:43:40,679
Speaker 2: Uh.

681
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 1: One of the aspects that's central of to the to

682
00:43:46,519 --> 00:43:49,639
the ecumenical idea is that you no longer try to

683
00:43:49,679 --> 00:43:54,320
convert anyone to your to your philosophy. And Krishna Murdy,

684
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:58,599
as we mentioned earlier, I wrote this essay called Three

685
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:03,480
Pious Egos and it's the idea of how egotistical it

686
00:44:03,639 --> 00:44:07,519
is to dare to convert someone to your ideology. What

687
00:44:07,599 --> 00:44:13,519
everyone seems to miss in terms of the obvious presuppositional

688
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:19,119
contradiction here is that the ecumenist is converting everyone to

689
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:24,800
his non conversion philosophy. So he's everybody, he's every bit

690
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:30,000
the egotistical dogmatist by saying that you're wrong for trying

691
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:33,599
to convert people. So as I read, you know, Krishna Murdy,

692
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:36,480
I'm looking at him talking about how egotistical are for

693
00:44:36,559 --> 00:44:40,360
people wanting to convert them. This is a whole apologetic

694
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:42,920
treatise trying to convert me to his opinion.

695
00:44:44,039 --> 00:44:46,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, you need to convert people into an organization that

696
00:44:46,599 --> 00:44:48,000
doesn't go out and try to convert you.

697
00:44:49,199 --> 00:44:54,760
Speaker 1: And that's literally And so you know this is George

698
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:58,800
Weigel is one of these big time mainline Catholic so

699
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:02,920
called writers. He's written big fat books on John Paul's

700
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:05,440
second stuff, and you know, he's always tuting this stuff.

701
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:10,280
And you know, he wrote an opinion piece about actually

702
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:16,480
connecting Catholicism and Pentecostalism and charismaticism as the means by

703
00:45:16,519 --> 00:45:21,079
which the ecumenical movement could really spread because to reach

704
00:45:21,199 --> 00:45:24,440
more and more of a mass audience, you're not going

705
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:29,400
to do it through putting out tracks and lectures and sermons.

706
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:33,000
It's going to happen through people having subjectives, so called

707
00:45:33,039 --> 00:45:36,960
experiences that they think are divine and so charismaticism is

708
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:40,159
a great vehicle for that, right, converting people over to

709
00:45:40,199 --> 00:45:47,639
this ecumenical sledge of believe nothing, I guess relativism. What

710
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:50,880
the irony there, of course, is that, as we said,

711
00:45:51,039 --> 00:45:56,519
these are actual engineered movements. They're one run by people

712
00:45:56,519 --> 00:46:00,559
who a lot of these new thought type people will

713
00:46:00,599 --> 00:46:02,400
gurge you of these kinds of people. You know, these

714
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,440
are people running in the circles of you know, the

715
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:10,119
monetary elite, who you know, are all about social engineering.

716
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:14,079
So what I'm saying is that the promises of ecumenism

717
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,400
are hollow. They don't lead to you know, all this

718
00:46:17,599 --> 00:46:25,559
tolerance and whatever glowing hippie utopian ideals they're they're promoting. Uh,

719
00:46:25,679 --> 00:46:29,440
it's all part of the one world global state. And

720
00:46:30,079 --> 00:46:32,840
as I said again, you can look at Huxley's Perennial

721
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:36,079
Philosophy book to see that. Yeah, and then they say,

722
00:46:36,519 --> 00:46:39,159
these people will even say you know, in the coming future,

723
00:46:40,159 --> 00:46:42,719
we're going to have to deal with the dissenters. You know,

724
00:46:42,719 --> 00:46:45,840
they're going to have to be dealt with. Right, So

725
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:47,800
much for tolerance, right.

726
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, doesn't sound very tolerant.

727
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:59,840
Speaker 2: Well, one of the biggest pushers of the economical like

728
00:47:00,119 --> 00:47:03,800
it a is Rick Warren.

729
00:47:04,159 --> 00:47:06,360
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Now that's got to be some kind of

730
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:07,039
CI think.

731
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:10,639
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, oh yeah. And so we're you know,

732
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:15,440
now here's where, Here's where. And I want to touch

733
00:47:15,519 --> 00:47:19,719
us touch on this on a later on a later episode.

734
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:23,760
And Jay, you're welcome to join us again if when

735
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:32,559
we start getting into southern California, Jesus people and evangelicism,

736
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:34,679
because we're going to talk about that in the future.

737
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:39,760
But see right here in southern California, and all of

738
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:43,800
these churches are within a couple of miles of each other.

739
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:51,119
Strangely enough, is TBN Calbred Chapel, Megachurch, Mothership, a vineyard,

740
00:47:52,199 --> 00:47:59,039
and saddleback Church where we're uh pastors out to the

741
00:47:59,159 --> 00:48:00,840
twenty thousand people at once.

742
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:06,280
Speaker 1: So I note one of the the Calvary Chapel which

743
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:09,119
it originates to California. DA mc allen points out it

744
00:48:09,119 --> 00:48:11,599
as one of the Laurel Canyon, guys who started the

745
00:48:11,639 --> 00:48:13,559
Calfrey Chapels.

746
00:48:17,199 --> 00:48:21,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's uh, well there there's I know a

747
00:48:21,599 --> 00:48:23,480
lot about that, and I'm kind of saving it for

748
00:48:24,039 --> 00:48:26,159
a particular absence. I'm not even going to talk about

749
00:48:26,199 --> 00:48:27,800
that yet, okay.

750
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:28,039
Speaker 3: But.

751
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,679
Speaker 2: So all all of those particular churches are kind of

752
00:48:35,199 --> 00:48:37,880
are kind of offsheets of Calvary Chapel. They kind of

753
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:44,920
started that all except for TVN. But but Rick Warren

754
00:48:46,559 --> 00:48:50,199
of course hosted a debate between John McCain and Barack

755
00:48:50,199 --> 00:48:55,880
Obama at Saddleback Church in Airline, and then he went

756
00:48:55,920 --> 00:49:00,559
on to give the inaugural speech for Obama, and then

757
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:04,000
he goes to DeVos, hangs out at the World Economic

758
00:49:04,119 --> 00:49:07,320
Form and then you can see video clips of him,

759
00:49:07,599 --> 00:49:10,880
you know, saying that he's buddies with the Islamic leaders

760
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:16,280
and that they're signing u N agreements for covenants between

761
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:24,960
the faiths and things like this, and and so what

762
00:49:25,039 --> 00:49:27,599
I've talked about with christ before or with you know,

763
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:30,760
just people who I know who are church goers. I

764
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:36,320
am not myself a churchgoer, but most people who go

765
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:38,960
to church, they don't even go to church because they're

766
00:49:39,039 --> 00:49:43,880
into reading texts or understanding the Bible. They kind of

767
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:48,320
want to go to church because it feels good, you know.

768
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:52,519
And they're not bad people by any stretch of the world.

769
00:49:52,519 --> 00:49:56,519
They're not bad. It's just they do something that's kind

770
00:49:56,559 --> 00:49:58,559
of been passed down as a tradition, and it's kind

771
00:49:58,599 --> 00:50:01,960
of a blind tradition. So they're not really into learning

772
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:05,000
about the Bible, or if they are into learning about

773
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,039
the Bible, they only go as far as what their

774
00:50:07,039 --> 00:50:10,760
preacher tells them. So somebody like Rick Warren, who wrote

775
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:15,440
the most popular Christian book of all time, The Purpose

776
00:50:15,559 --> 00:50:19,000
Driven Life, I mean the title of The Purpose Driven Life,

777
00:50:19,119 --> 00:50:22,280
it should be on the self help aisle in Barnes

778
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:29,199
and Nobles. Right, Yes, that has nothing to do with

779
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:31,000
I mean even in the title, has nothing to do

780
00:50:31,039 --> 00:50:34,280
with Christianity whatsoever. And then half the time, most of

781
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:37,039
these guys, including warn himself, they don't even have a

782
00:50:37,079 --> 00:50:39,559
Bible on their pulpit when they're giving their sercums.

783
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:48,400
Speaker 1: The exact same way. Yeah, yeah, it's very very bizarre

784
00:50:48,519 --> 00:50:53,360
the history of the megachurch, and I believe Saddleback has

785
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:57,360
kind of gone talk connections as well. For my research,

786
00:50:58,559 --> 00:51:00,880
you can look at Paul Crouch he's been in trouble

787
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:05,119
with the FBI for money laundering. Not that I'm saying

788
00:51:05,119 --> 00:51:08,280
that the government's good. I'm just saying that rival mafia

789
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:14,280
is right. Yeah, these people are quite obviously dubious, but

790
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,760
I think they experiment with different things too. So you

791
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:23,800
had in the last fifteen ten fifteen years this movement

792
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:27,280
called the Emergent Church. And this is weird because it's

793
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:33,800
an attempt to blend the denominational slash megachurch with some

794
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:40,920
cafeteria style stuff from maybe Orthodox liturgy or Catholic liturgy.

795
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,320
So you might have a calendar and you might the

796
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:46,599
guy might decide to wear a robe or something like that,

797
00:51:47,199 --> 00:51:51,079
but you're all going to meet in an auditorium and

798
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:54,960
wear jeans, and we're right. So it's a weird mix

799
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:57,280
of stuff. And then you start watching the heads of

800
00:51:57,320 --> 00:52:00,000
this movement and they start saying, oh, yeah, we actually

801
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:01,960
disagree with a lot of what's in the Bible. We

802
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:02,800
don't really believe that.

803
00:52:04,199 --> 00:52:04,519
Speaker 2: Uh.

804
00:52:04,559 --> 00:52:08,599
Speaker 1: And if you trace back the Emergent movement, I spent

805
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:11,800
about a day one day researching this and look to me,

806
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:15,119
like this is coming out of Oxford. That's of course

807
00:52:15,159 --> 00:52:18,159
the you know, Central locale of I believe that the

808
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:22,000
inner Party of the UH, for lack of a better terms,

809
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:25,519
of real world controlling illuminati. So what I think is

810
00:52:25,559 --> 00:52:28,480
that they kind of throw out these different things like

811
00:52:28,519 --> 00:52:34,400
the megachurch and the these different trends in Christianity, like

812
00:52:34,559 --> 00:52:37,719
you know, Christian hip hop and all this kind of junk,

813
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:40,440
which is just like a mimic of the so called

814
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:44,159
secular stuff. Right, it's like a cheap copy of that stuff.

815
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:45,119
Speaker 5: Uh.

816
00:52:45,199 --> 00:52:48,599
Speaker 1: And it's it's all marketed in exactly the same way

817
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:52,760
as the mainline stuff, right. It looks exactly the same.

818
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,480
It's not really anything substantially different. So that maybe throwing

819
00:52:55,599 --> 00:52:58,400
Jesus here and there, and I think it's, yeah, it's

820
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:00,360
all it's all a scam. It's it's just as much

821
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:03,159
a scam as anything else that you know, you guys

822
00:53:03,159 --> 00:53:07,000
talk about. So, yeah, all of these movements seem to

823
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:11,480
be dubious, and they tie into homeland security quite often.

824
00:53:11,559 --> 00:53:15,000
You know, these mega churches, emergent churches are full of

825
00:53:15,079 --> 00:53:18,400
people who are informists for homeland security. There have been

826
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:21,599
plenty of articles and mainstream news reports about that as well.

827
00:53:23,559 --> 00:53:29,920
Speaker 2: You know what, one of the biggest seats of modernist

828
00:53:30,119 --> 00:53:31,199
architecture is.

829
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:37,599
Speaker 1: Well, what it could be a lot of things.

830
00:53:37,599 --> 00:53:41,239
Speaker 2: What one of the biggest feats that you can attribute

831
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:44,280
to modernist architecture the Crystal Cathedrals.

832
00:53:45,159 --> 00:53:46,760
Speaker 1: Oh okay, yeah, Robert, there you go.

833
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, Philip Johnson was the woman who designed the Crystal Cathedral.

834
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:57,000
And then a guy we talked about quite often in

835
00:53:57,079 --> 00:54:00,280
this the guy who built the original church for the

836
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:05,519
Chris Cathedral was built, was Richard Neutra, who builds all

837
00:54:05,559 --> 00:54:09,239
of the other stuff that we've talked about. But yeah,

838
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:13,639
that's another thing that ties into this, and this is

839
00:54:13,639 --> 00:54:16,159
a good point to bring it up, because there's actually

840
00:54:16,159 --> 00:54:23,199
a connection between modernism and modernist Christianity modernism in the

841
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:26,440
sense of how we've been discussing it, because you start

842
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:30,440
to see in the nineteen fifties you start to see

843
00:54:30,639 --> 00:54:33,719
this and you see this in the Catholic Church as well,

844
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:38,119
where you start seeing these churches starting to be updated

845
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:40,800
in the way that they're built, and they're all built

846
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:46,079
in modernist fashion. They've totally and post modernist fashion. They've

847
00:54:46,079 --> 00:54:48,960
totally done away with the church and the steeple in

848
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:55,599
the classical sense, and now you've got, you know, modern

849
00:54:55,639 --> 00:54:59,000
buildings where some of them don't even have crosses on them,

850
00:54:59,159 --> 00:55:01,360
or you don't even that it's a church. It actually

851
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:02,719
looks more like a civic center.

852
00:55:05,119 --> 00:55:09,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, the the Catholic version is what you're talking about

853
00:55:09,639 --> 00:55:12,159
where and I know at a bit about all that.

854
00:55:12,199 --> 00:55:14,199
And this was especially.

855
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:18,599
Speaker 4: Say what, oh you you were breaking up there real bad.

856
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:22,920
Speaker 1: Oh. Yeah, this happens after Vatican Two, especially in the

857
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:26,519
Catholic Church, where the norm for the architecture becomes all

858
00:55:26,519 --> 00:55:32,280
this hideous, uh, space station looking stuff. And what it

859
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:36,320
looks like is the old Soviet style architecture of what

860
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:40,159
they thought the future, like the retro futurism of the Soviets.

861
00:55:40,559 --> 00:55:43,480
It's what a lot of that post Vatican too, Catholic

862
00:55:43,599 --> 00:55:44,320
churches look.

863
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 4: Like you looked into cause cosmism, Yes, I take that.

864
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:49,960
I'm saying that right.

865
00:55:50,679 --> 00:55:53,639
Speaker 1: When it's posted on that And uh, there's some interesting

866
00:55:54,519 --> 00:55:59,679
articles at us sold the East. Well, there's a woman

867
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:02,840
named no Natalia Rtanina and she wrote a couple of

868
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:07,519
interesting articles that deal with Russian cosmism. I forget the

869
00:56:07,559 --> 00:56:09,559
exact name of the article off the top of my head.

870
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:11,719
I can link it or email it to you guys.

871
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:17,159
But but yeah, Russian futurism and cosmism would have its

872
00:56:17,199 --> 00:56:20,480
own sort of weird style of architecture. And you know

873
00:56:20,519 --> 00:56:24,199
a lot of these Vatican two Postvatican Two churches in

874
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:28,719
the Catholic Church took on that architecture absolutely right. And

875
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:31,599
in the Protestant world, the corollary, I guess would be

876
00:56:31,639 --> 00:56:37,760
the nobnominational strip mall or the big metal building or

877
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:40,519
the church that looks like a sports theater.

878
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:43,199
Speaker 4: Yeah, they have one of those down here on the

879
00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:48,159
corner from me, not too far. It's like a big Uh.

880
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:51,480
I don't know if it's called a megachurch. I don't think.

881
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:52,840
I don't know if it's that big, but it's a

882
00:56:52,840 --> 00:56:56,480
really big it's like a compound, But yeah, it does.

883
00:56:56,599 --> 00:56:58,840
It looks like what you just got to describe, and

884
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:04,360
it's it's just like pre fab and a big, huge,

885
00:57:04,599 --> 00:57:09,639
gigantic parking lot that they bought from a defunct grocery

886
00:57:09,679 --> 00:57:13,880
store that used to be there. And uh, it's they're

887
00:57:14,119 --> 00:57:17,880
like charismatic. I guess that's what you classify it. And

888
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:20,880
I think the think about the charismatic movement from and

889
00:57:21,039 --> 00:57:24,639
from what I gather, it's like really had a had

890
00:57:24,639 --> 00:57:27,639
a big research resurgence within the last I don't know

891
00:57:27,679 --> 00:57:29,119
how many years, twenty years or so.

892
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:33,000
Speaker 1: Especially in Africa and Latin America.

893
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:36,679
Speaker 4: By the way, Oh really okay, see, yeah, that it's

894
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:39,440
it's it's really it's really big. Well, I mean they

895
00:57:39,519 --> 00:57:42,800
got this uh, this big compound down here and and

896
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:44,559
then I don't I don't know how many members, but

897
00:57:44,599 --> 00:57:48,039
they have like two different services. Uh, so they can

898
00:57:48,079 --> 00:57:50,840
accommodate everybody. And they already have those like huge gigantic

899
00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:53,360
parking lot, so they with all that, they still have

900
00:57:53,519 --> 00:57:56,480
like two separate services. But I was just going to

901
00:57:56,559 --> 00:58:01,559
mention something about the uh charismatic movement and like if

902
00:58:01,559 --> 00:58:04,400
you do what Rick Warren, which is he's admitted to

903
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:07,320
being a member of the Council Council on Foreign Relations.

904
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:14,840
By the way, they talk about getting direct revelation from God.

905
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:16,880
You know, that's probably what you know John's mentioning. You

906
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:18,519
know he gets up and preaches and doesn't even have

907
00:58:18,559 --> 00:58:21,880
the Bible. Well, it's this idea that you know, you're

908
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:27,480
getting like direct tapped into you know, the Holy Spirit

909
00:58:27,559 --> 00:58:32,119
and God and and you're getting direct revelation. And that's

910
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:37,199
that's an idea in in you know, the charismatic movement especially.

911
00:58:37,280 --> 00:58:41,639
I think that is what you see now a lot

912
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:44,639
where you know, like like like you're talking about where

913
00:58:44,679 --> 00:58:47,760
people don't really are into reading the Bible or knowing

914
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:51,960
anything about the Bible really, and that I think that's uh,

915
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:55,800
at least on my base, on my experience, I gather

916
00:58:56,000 --> 00:59:00,800
that just about anybody I've ever spoken to who doesn't

917
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:02,519
really know a whole lot about the Bible and they

918
00:59:02,519 --> 00:59:04,960
don't really read the Bible a whole lot. I mean,

919
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:09,000
you find exceptions here and there, but generally speaking, it's

920
00:59:09,079 --> 00:59:12,320
it's more to do like you'll hear people talk about, well,

921
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:14,960
you know, God told me this, God told me that

922
00:59:15,039 --> 00:59:18,320
God's moving in my life, He's working in my life,

923
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:24,920
and it's all this kind of, uh, this concept of

924
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:29,039
this you know, spirit influence that they're having. They'll make

925
00:59:29,119 --> 00:59:32,280
reference to the Bible, but it's it's not like they're

926
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:35,119
directing our life according to the Bible. It's more this

927
00:59:35,199 --> 00:59:38,800
idea of this direct revelation from God.

928
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:44,159
Speaker 1: Absolutely and this, oddly enough, is all directly out of

929
00:59:44,199 --> 00:59:50,800
the suspects we mentioned earlier, right theosophy. Theosophy and anthroposophy

930
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:54,800
are the foundations of the ecumenical movement. And you can

931
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:58,079
go back to Madam Wolvatsky who talked about this. We

932
00:59:58,159 --> 01:00:03,519
mentioned Krishna Murdi under any Bassan, so he was involved

933
01:00:03,519 --> 01:00:06,159
in the Theosophical Society, you know, a big guy in

934
01:00:06,159 --> 01:00:10,800
the ecumenical movement. So in the idea there is that,

935
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:16,360
you know, my tapping into right is what is what's

936
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:18,880
guiding me into whatever force that that might be, whether

937
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:22,079
it's my mind or you know, demons or something who knows.

938
01:00:22,119 --> 01:00:27,039
But but that's the problem, is that there's no guideline

939
01:00:27,519 --> 01:00:30,159
by which we can determine, you know, the source of

940
01:00:30,239 --> 01:00:35,039
these of these experiences. And when I was eighteen or

941
01:00:35,079 --> 01:00:38,639
nineteen started reading the Bible, I visited some charismatic churches

942
01:00:38,679 --> 01:00:40,880
to just check it out. You know, it's kind of like, well,

943
01:00:41,760 --> 01:00:44,000
reading the Bible, you know which church is right, I'm

944
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:46,519
gonna you know, taste all thirty two flavors or thirty

945
01:00:46,559 --> 01:00:50,519
two thousand flavors, but I'm gonna go see which ones are,

946
01:00:50,599 --> 01:00:52,159
you know, check it out. And I went to a

947
01:00:52,159 --> 01:00:55,400
whole bunch of different churches to get an idea. And

948
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:57,599
what you noticed in the charismatic churches is that that's

949
01:00:57,639 --> 01:01:01,400
absolutely the case. There's you know, very little Bible literacy,

950
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:05,119
and everybody's just kind of looking for and waiting for

951
01:01:05,159 --> 01:01:10,519
this next experience, which probably ninety five to ninety nine

952
01:01:10,559 --> 01:01:14,119
percent of the time is just people's emotions that they're

953
01:01:14,239 --> 01:01:17,480
mistaking for the so called spirit.

954
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:22,679
Speaker 2: I would say, yeah, a lot of things too. Is

955
01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:26,000
you know one thing you guys brought up I wanted

956
01:01:26,039 --> 01:01:29,079
to mention because you know, I was raised in the

957
01:01:29,119 --> 01:01:33,440
throes of the charismatic movement out here, and my parents

958
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:38,920
attended Calvy Chapel and I went to private school with

959
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:42,400
a lot of kids, some kids who were also pastors,

960
01:01:42,719 --> 01:01:49,280
children from local churches. And the one thing I noticed,

961
01:01:49,559 --> 01:01:54,480
like you said, like these churches take on these postmodernist

962
01:01:54,719 --> 01:02:01,079
structures when they're built. And when that movement first started

963
01:02:01,079 --> 01:02:04,679
out in the sixties, the idea behind it was was

964
01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:07,639
something that you could probably get on board with at

965
01:02:07,639 --> 01:02:09,719
a certain level where it's like, Hey, you don't need

966
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:12,920
to go here and go there, We're going to do

967
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:15,000
our own thing. You can come to my house and

968
01:02:15,039 --> 01:02:19,599
we'll have Bible study, right, And that's how that kind

969
01:02:19,599 --> 01:02:21,760
of started out. It's like, hey, come over to my house.

970
01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:24,320
I mean, that's what my parents used to do. They

971
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:26,719
come over to the house, we'll have people over, we'll

972
01:02:26,719 --> 01:02:29,639
have Bible study and and we you know, we don't

973
01:02:29,639 --> 01:02:31,719
need to go to a church to do that or

974
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:36,760
you know whatever. And then it then from that point

975
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:38,840
it turned into well, I can you know, we can

976
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:41,440
rent this warehouse and we can have the church there

977
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:45,599
until we're able to get space. But then once the

978
01:02:45,639 --> 01:02:49,599
people can afford to have the church built, they don't.

979
01:02:49,679 --> 01:02:54,679
They purposely don't build it like an old church, right,

980
01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:58,079
they don't build they don't build it in a traditional fashion.

981
01:02:58,480 --> 01:03:01,199
They build it like, you know, like you guys said,

982
01:03:01,239 --> 01:03:04,840
like in a postmodernist fashion, where it looks nothing like

983
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:10,239
a church, it has no traditional ties to anything else.

984
01:03:11,519 --> 01:03:14,440
And so people have been brought up.

985
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:14,599
Speaker 3: In a.

986
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:19,360
Speaker 2: In a fashion today where they don't know anything about

987
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:24,639
what took place before and they don't know how, you know,

988
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:27,880
anything else looks and all of them. And if you

989
01:03:28,039 --> 01:03:31,239
if you were to say to somebody today, hey, the

990
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:35,119
majority of the stuff that you believe actually comes out

991
01:03:35,159 --> 01:03:41,559
of the theosophy, Yeah, they would they would, they would

992
01:03:43,119 --> 01:03:48,920
they would be mad at you because they wouldn't believe you, right, Like, hey,

993
01:03:49,119 --> 01:03:52,079
you're talking about communing with the Holy Spirit, and things

994
01:03:52,119 --> 01:03:55,159
like that, Like people didn't talk that way, you know,

995
01:03:55,280 --> 01:03:59,519
prior prior to the eighteen eighties, okay, and the only

996
01:03:59,519 --> 01:04:03,960
people to talk like that were theosophists and spiritualists and

997
01:04:04,599 --> 01:04:09,119
mentalists and things like that. And you know, interestingly enough,

998
01:04:09,159 --> 01:04:14,960
around the same time I made this connection, I was

999
01:04:15,079 --> 01:04:17,719
thinking about that, this is all around the same time

1000
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:25,599
that Mesmer's stuff came out with so that that all

1001
01:04:25,639 --> 01:04:31,159
plays into into you know, the falling down and you know,

1002
01:04:31,559 --> 01:04:35,000
all I can you know, the blind can see, the

1003
01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:40,880
lane can walk type stuff, And there's a whole series

1004
01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:45,119
of that type of stuff as well, especially in the

1005
01:04:45,199 --> 01:04:53,400
nineteen twenties with the tent revivals and then well then

1006
01:04:53,639 --> 01:04:58,599
also also big time after the Depression, because people were

1007
01:04:58,920 --> 01:05:02,599
looking for reasons why the depression happened, not because you know,

1008
01:05:02,639 --> 01:05:05,920
the rich elite stole everything. It was because God was

1009
01:05:06,039 --> 01:05:11,639
danning America and telling them to turn back to God.

1010
01:05:11,679 --> 01:05:16,920
And that's what the preachers were saying, and so people

1011
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:20,719
were looking to churches and so that a lot of

1012
01:05:20,719 --> 01:05:24,159
the preachers gained a stronghold during that particular time period.

1013
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:27,719
Speaker 1: It makes me think of that, what's that Steve Martin

1014
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:32,920
movie from the nineties I think where he's the con

1015
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:35,079
man preacher. Remember that Leap.

1016
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:40,719
Speaker 2: Of Faith, Leap of Faith, Leap of Faith. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1017
01:05:40,719 --> 01:05:43,400
there's a there's a series of those stuff. And see

1018
01:05:43,559 --> 01:05:48,360
that's the thing that that's too bad about, you know,

1019
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:52,440
people like Robert Kilton, even my favorite even my favorite

1020
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:55,320
televangelist because if you want to talk about it, a

1021
01:05:55,360 --> 01:06:04,960
direct connection to God. Yeah. Uh but yeah, see those

1022
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:07,480
guys obviously, like like you said, those guys are on

1023
01:06:08,239 --> 01:06:10,360
are on government table to act like a bunch of

1024
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:14,440
koops and make Christians look bad. And then when you

1025
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:18,719
see a movie like the uh like Leap of Faith

1026
01:06:18,760 --> 01:06:21,840
and the other one, what was the one with Robert

1027
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:22,960
Huball where he.

1028
01:06:23,079 --> 01:06:28,320
Speaker 1: Was yeah yeah, where he he kills somebody and remember that. Yeah.

1029
01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:28,679
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1030
01:06:28,719 --> 01:06:34,880
Speaker 2: So there's the there's there's Hollywood critiquing Christianity there, and

1031
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:38,239
and they're critiquing in the fashion you know, like like oh,

1032
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:41,119
look at these bad Christians, are you know, idiots from

1033
01:06:41,159 --> 01:06:47,679
believing the stuff? Right? And so do you have this

1034
01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:57,480
dialectic going on there? And so anyways, uh, unfortunate. I

1035
01:06:57,519 --> 01:06:59,760
was just going to finish real quick here and then

1036
01:07:00,320 --> 01:07:04,880
I'll leave you guys have the rest of the discussion. Unfortunately,

1037
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:09,199
growing up in the nineteen eighties and with one foot

1038
01:07:09,239 --> 01:07:15,760
in Christian culture and one foot being persuaded by the

1039
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:21,079
worldly culture. If you're going to listen to a heavy

1040
01:07:21,119 --> 01:07:24,320
metal band in the nineteen eighties, you're not going to

1041
01:07:24,400 --> 01:07:29,559
listen to a Christian heavy metal band. And the Christian

1042
01:07:29,679 --> 01:07:32,320
culture all it did was try to any like you

1043
01:07:32,320 --> 01:07:34,559
were saying, all did was trying to anyway. Everything on

1044
01:07:34,599 --> 01:07:42,079
the radio or everything looks like like they've come out

1045
01:07:42,119 --> 01:07:45,960
with books that were kind of like Stephen King will

1046
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:49,239
it's like a book. There was a book that was

1047
01:07:49,320 --> 01:07:52,679
very famous in the eighties with Christians called This Present Darkness.

1048
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:54,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, Frank pretty.

1049
01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:57,800
Speaker 2: Frank pretty, and then he's all hooked into the Council

1050
01:07:57,880 --> 01:08:01,559
for National Policy and everything. But yeah, so we're gonna

1051
01:08:01,559 --> 01:08:05,000
write a Stephen King type novel to have it, but

1052
01:08:05,079 --> 01:08:07,960
it's gonna have a Christian it's gonna have a you know,

1053
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:11,000
one foot in Christianity sort of peel through the Christians

1054
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:13,880
because Stephen King is so popular at this time period.

1055
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:16,680
And then we're gonna Christian death metal bands. There were

1056
01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:18,760
Christian death metal bands in the nineties.

1057
01:08:19,359 --> 01:08:23,760
Speaker 4: You know, Christian vampire novels, now I just looked that up.

1058
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:32,439
Speaker 2: I guess I guess it doesn't I guess it doesn't

1059
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:34,840
work if you staff, if you, you know, pull the

1060
01:08:34,840 --> 01:08:39,239
cross out for him.

1061
01:08:39,279 --> 01:08:41,520
Speaker 4: Well it should, right, I mean that's the way.

1062
01:08:42,760 --> 01:08:47,319
Speaker 2: Well la cross of the repel then actually lets them

1063
01:08:47,359 --> 01:08:47,720
into the.

1064
01:08:47,640 --> 01:09:00,960
Speaker 4: House apparently is such a thing. Wow, just selling that out, well,

1065
01:09:01,159 --> 01:09:04,960
just take I'm sorry, Oh no, I was just gonna

1066
01:09:04,960 --> 01:09:08,000
say it. Just take takes what's already kind of popular

1067
01:09:08,039 --> 01:09:11,079
in culture and puts a Christian angle on it and

1068
01:09:11,119 --> 01:09:14,239
then repackages it, puts it out there films, you know,

1069
01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:18,439
but you know the same action thrillers, Christian action thrillers.

1070
01:09:18,119 --> 01:09:30,680
Speaker 1: Christians behind garbage with the cage, right, yeah, y well.

1071
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:33,520
The what's interesting about the architecture aspect too that I

1072
01:09:33,520 --> 01:09:36,920
wanted to mention was that it's curious to me that

1073
01:09:37,399 --> 01:09:40,920
the idea in uh, you know, the early Church, why

1074
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:46,600
they started building cathedrals and uh, you know, big edifices

1075
01:09:46,720 --> 01:09:50,000
that were an ornate. It wasn't just some sort of

1076
01:09:51,479 --> 01:09:58,159
notion of being ostentatious or whatever. It was because you know,

1077
01:09:58,199 --> 01:10:01,239
if you lived in a hamlet or a village or

1078
01:10:01,279 --> 01:10:07,039
something like this, the most architecture was built that way

1079
01:10:07,079 --> 01:10:10,520
to begin with, in the sense of durability and longevity.

1080
01:10:11,319 --> 01:10:14,039
So the idea was because it was I guess I

1081
01:10:14,079 --> 01:10:17,760
would argue more traditional. The notion was that you're you're

1082
01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:20,319
building this church not just for you, You're building it

1083
01:10:20,399 --> 01:10:24,039
for subsequent generations, right, so your children and your children's

1084
01:10:24,119 --> 01:10:26,920
children and so forth are going to be worshiping at

1085
01:10:26,920 --> 01:10:31,119
this same building. It therefore makes sense to make it

1086
01:10:31,119 --> 01:10:35,600
out of brick and stone sort to last, you know, right.

1087
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:39,800
So that's and that's contrasted to this idea of progeny

1088
01:10:39,840 --> 01:10:43,920
and building things for the future, is contrasted drastically with

1089
01:10:45,159 --> 01:10:50,920
the consumerist, you know, transient aspect of the way the

1090
01:10:51,000 --> 01:10:53,600
churches that we're talking about are built where they're built,

1091
01:10:53,800 --> 01:10:58,319
especially in Protestantism and non Denominationalism and Evangelicalism, they're just

1092
01:10:58,359 --> 01:11:01,119
these like big metal buildings that you know, are not

1093
01:11:01,159 --> 01:11:01,760
going to last.

1094
01:11:04,880 --> 01:11:09,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, like uh yeah, the prefab stuff, and they could

1095
01:11:09,359 --> 01:11:13,439
throw it up real quick, and yeah that's uh yeah,

1096
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:14,840
I've taken note of that.

1097
01:11:18,079 --> 01:11:21,960
Speaker 1: So it's not a position that is even concerned or

1098
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:26,039
thinking about, you know, where are our descendants going to

1099
01:11:26,039 --> 01:11:26,760
be worshiping?

1100
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:31,039
Speaker 4: You know, just like the rest of the culture. I mean,

1101
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:34,199
shopping centers are the same way. I mean, you go

1102
01:11:34,319 --> 01:11:36,279
look at the shopping center. It's like, okay, that's going

1103
01:11:36,359 --> 01:11:39,680
to be gone with the first strong win that comes

1104
01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:42,000
through here. You know, it's it's just not gonna be

1105
01:11:42,119 --> 01:11:44,680
something there's going to last very long. But you know

1106
01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:48,479
it's just uh yeah. And now church is the same thing. Yeah,

1107
01:11:48,479 --> 01:11:49,920
that's a good point.

1108
01:11:50,159 --> 01:11:53,800
Speaker 1: I think about what it's focusing on, the immediate here

1109
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:56,840
and now, and that makes sense with this idea of

1110
01:11:57,079 --> 01:12:00,520
you know, the loss of belief in the eternal, and

1111
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:04,479
I think that's directly connected to the notion of something

1112
01:12:04,520 --> 01:12:08,920
being true with the capital T meaning you know, objectively, consistently,

1113
01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:16,119
always true, eternally true. Is contrasted with pragmatism, which is

1114
01:12:16,159 --> 01:12:19,239
the only school of philosophy that America has produced, which

1115
01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:24,039
makes sense with the idea of America pragmatism and the

1116
01:12:24,079 --> 01:12:29,439
immediate here now empiricism. This is all we got. And

1117
01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:33,840
you know, it's a reflection of the consumerism in the

1118
01:12:33,920 --> 01:12:34,840
society as a whole.

1119
01:12:37,159 --> 01:12:41,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, the me centered culture, the century of the self,

1120
01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:47,479
that whole thing. And then yeah, and you look at

1121
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:55,079
how all of these institutions within the greater system are

1122
01:12:55,119 --> 01:12:58,600
all integrated. It's amazing. Oh yeah, it's that, you know.

1123
01:12:58,680 --> 01:13:01,399
The Okay, Now, the church is follows suit and then

1124
01:13:01,439 --> 01:13:05,600
they reflective and they of the culture at large with

1125
01:13:05,640 --> 01:13:11,039
whichever direction it starts to head. The churches incorporate doctrines

1126
01:13:11,119 --> 01:13:14,560
and theology and stuff that is reflective of the wider culture.

1127
01:13:15,600 --> 01:13:19,359
And I've talked about that in the past calls and stuff.

1128
01:13:19,399 --> 01:13:24,680
How that, yeah that I noticed that growing up and

1129
01:13:24,720 --> 01:13:27,760
going to church. How that was the case, you know,

1130
01:13:28,600 --> 01:13:34,199
or things that were deemed by the culture at large

1131
01:13:34,239 --> 01:13:38,279
as being bad things, and then the church would adopt

1132
01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:42,079
those sentiments. And then uh, but you can go back,

1133
01:13:42,600 --> 01:13:45,800
you know, when I was a h.

1134
01:13:47,319 --> 01:13:49,880
Speaker 1: A pipe or a cigarette tobacco like you mentioned.

1135
01:13:49,680 --> 01:13:54,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and you'd see the guys out, uh mainly

1136
01:13:54,960 --> 01:14:00,279
men out smoking during the enter the between the glass

1137
01:14:00,359 --> 01:14:03,399
in the Sunday school service a there'd be about a

1138
01:14:03,439 --> 01:14:07,039
ten minute break and then be men out there smoking.

1139
01:14:07,600 --> 01:14:10,600
And you know that that doesn't happen anymore. You don't

1140
01:14:10,640 --> 01:14:13,760
even uh wouldn't you know if you if you smoke,

1141
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:16,600
you don't even let yourself be seen smoking because it's

1142
01:14:16,600 --> 01:14:20,319
something that's that is uh, you know, deemed as bad

1143
01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:23,359
by the Church. And then also like, yeah, you wouldn't

1144
01:14:23,680 --> 01:14:25,640
take a drink out in public or anything like that,

1145
01:14:25,640 --> 01:14:29,079
because that's that's seen as Unchristian or non Christian, even

1146
01:14:29,119 --> 01:14:32,119
though there's no prohibition against it in the Bible at all,

1147
01:14:32,199 --> 01:14:34,199
you know, any of those prohibitions.

1148
01:14:34,439 --> 01:14:36,359
Speaker 1: The Psalms even say God gave line.

1149
01:14:38,079 --> 01:14:41,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, he says, let the foremahan drink to forget

1150
01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:42,039
his troubles.

1151
01:14:42,079 --> 01:14:46,159
Speaker 1: And proverbs too, he says, let the fore man have

1152
01:14:46,239 --> 01:14:49,840
his drink. There's a statement in Deuteronomy where God even

1153
01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:54,680
says that when the Israelites come together to celebrate the

1154
01:14:54,720 --> 01:14:59,600
feast days, he wishes that they have strong drink. So

1155
01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:05,359
just utterly postrous invention of some you know, some guys,

1156
01:15:05,479 --> 01:15:08,359
some control freak pastor who just got the idea, you

1157
01:15:08,399 --> 01:15:12,399
know that. And I think that goes back to Americanism,

1158
01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:17,600
American revivalism and the Temperance movement that was all, you know,

1159
01:15:17,800 --> 01:15:22,159
connected to the same idea of social engineering. Now interesting,

1160
01:15:22,279 --> 01:15:26,640
the Temperance movement reminds me of it comes up in

1161
01:15:26,640 --> 01:15:30,479
this book I just read called The Messianic Character of

1162
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:36,039
American Education. And I don't agree with everything that Rush

1163
01:15:36,119 --> 01:15:38,560
Jenny promotes. Who's the authors, but he is kind of

1164
01:15:38,600 --> 01:15:42,199
he's the founder of the homeschool movement. And what's good

1165
01:15:42,199 --> 01:15:46,239
about this book is that he includes about several hundred

1166
01:15:46,359 --> 01:15:50,279
quotes from the I think he picks about twenty or

1167
01:15:50,319 --> 01:15:54,840
twenty five of the founding guys in American education. And

1168
01:15:54,960 --> 01:15:57,399
the reason this is relevant to our humunism talk is

1169
01:15:57,399 --> 01:16:02,319
that it's the exact same idea of Messianism, but it's

1170
01:16:02,359 --> 01:16:05,079
all going to be at the behest of the socialist state.

1171
01:16:05,800 --> 01:16:10,800
So when you look at the figures of Horace Mann,

1172
01:16:11,279 --> 01:16:18,880
John Dewey, JB. Watson, Edward Sheldon, Henry Barnard, there's a

1173
01:16:18,920 --> 01:16:21,960
there's a whole list of these character William James, the philosopher,

1174
01:16:22,479 --> 01:16:23,640
was influential in this.

1175
01:16:24,720 --> 01:16:24,840
Speaker 2: Uh.

1176
01:16:25,800 --> 01:16:29,640
Speaker 1: They have the idea, I'm not joking. This sounds extreme,

1177
01:16:29,960 --> 01:16:33,439
but they literally thought that public.

1178
01:16:33,079 --> 01:16:41,279
Speaker 6: Schooling was a messianic reality that would bring salvation to America,

1179
01:16:41,359 --> 01:16:43,520
and then America would then bring public.

1180
01:16:43,239 --> 01:16:47,000
Speaker 1: Schooling to the world, and that the whole change. Now lit'sten,

1181
01:16:47,039 --> 01:16:49,920
here's here's here's a quote from Horace Mann, who was

1182
01:16:50,000 --> 01:16:54,439
a Unitarian universalist. The public school, the common school is

1183
01:16:54,479 --> 01:16:58,520
the greatest discovery ever by man and he goes on

1184
01:16:58,600 --> 01:17:02,560
to say that through the implementation, we will create a utopia.

1185
01:17:03,720 --> 01:17:07,399
That's quotes from of course man, we also go on

1186
01:17:08,119 --> 01:17:09,439
I'm not going to read them all, but I mean

1187
01:17:09,479 --> 01:17:13,760
there's countless quotes where you have these founding guys saying

1188
01:17:13,800 --> 01:17:18,159
that the goal of education, especially John Dewey, is not

1189
01:17:18,239 --> 01:17:21,680
to educate or to teach a child how to learn,

1190
01:17:21,840 --> 01:17:24,800
but to socialize them, and by that he means to

1191
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:30,560
bring them into conformity with the world state. Now, I'm

1192
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:34,960
not saying that socialism and Marxism is, as we've discussed,

1193
01:17:35,560 --> 01:17:38,720
like a secret ideology that's going to take over the world.

1194
01:17:39,399 --> 01:17:44,600
It's an ideology that's promoted by the capitalist global elite,

1195
01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:50,600
the banking elite, so forth, corporate elite, because it destroys

1196
01:17:51,039 --> 01:17:55,119
the critical thinking of individuals, and that's why it's so

1197
01:17:55,239 --> 01:17:59,239
heavily promoted. So it's not even Marxism, because that was

1198
01:17:59,439 --> 01:18:05,319
primarily and economic philosophy of you know, modes of exchange

1199
01:18:05,359 --> 01:18:08,479
and means of production and all that. It's rather this

1200
01:18:08,720 --> 01:18:16,039
generic idea of sloganized, sloganeering socialism that is literally the

1201
01:18:16,319 --> 01:18:19,479
worldview of every every single one of the founding fathers

1202
01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:22,880
of American education. They all talk about it, and they

1203
01:18:22,920 --> 01:18:27,960
talk about it as necessary for democracy. They even say

1204
01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:32,239
that democracy is not just democracy, it's a salvafic way

1205
01:18:32,319 --> 01:18:32,880
of life.

1206
01:18:34,319 --> 01:18:35,880
Speaker 4: Wow, yeah, that is.

1207
01:18:37,920 --> 01:18:40,920
Speaker 1: Let's see which character that was that said that education

1208
01:18:41,079 --> 01:18:46,840
to see Carlton Washburn one of the I forget what

1209
01:18:46,880 --> 01:18:48,960
he did, but he's one of these founding guys. And

1210
01:18:49,720 --> 01:18:56,960
you see, a democracy means that America will be the

1211
01:18:57,039 --> 01:19:01,359
instrument through which public education will be spread to the globe.

1212
01:19:01,399 --> 01:19:05,479
And it's public education that is democracy, and democracy is

1213
01:19:05,520 --> 01:19:10,359
a Solvafic way of life. So another whilst the supposed

1214
01:19:10,359 --> 01:19:13,000
idea of democracy is this idea that we all equal,

1215
01:19:13,079 --> 01:19:15,920
we all have the same i'd vote, we all get

1216
01:19:15,920 --> 01:19:21,039
then equal vote, blah blah blah, egalitarianism, and that necessitates then,

1217
01:19:21,159 --> 01:19:24,359
oh well, if we're going to be democratic, you got

1218
01:19:24,359 --> 01:19:26,680
to have public schools because it's not fair to have

1219
01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:30,319
private schools or people learning on their own. Got to

1220
01:19:30,319 --> 01:19:34,199
have public schools. There's also an interesting chapter that shows

1221
01:19:34,239 --> 01:19:36,359
the correlation that comes out of this, which is the

1222
01:19:36,439 --> 01:19:41,239
idea that, well, you can't have gifted students because that

1223
01:19:41,279 --> 01:19:44,720
would presume some higher status and that's not fair to

1224
01:19:44,760 --> 01:19:47,560
everyone else. So even like back one hundred years ago,

1225
01:19:47,560 --> 01:19:50,199
when they were really discussing putting into place the public

1226
01:19:50,279 --> 01:19:57,199
education system, they were already stacking the deck against to

1227
01:19:57,600 --> 01:20:01,560
war against individual critical thinkers, to war against genius, to

1228
01:20:01,720 --> 01:20:04,239
war against gifted students, and so forth. Those are the

1229
01:20:04,239 --> 01:20:07,720
ones that are marked as the problem. As Merchant Russell said,

1230
01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:12,319
for example, But all these, all these same American education guys,

1231
01:20:12,920 --> 01:20:14,840
they're all by the way, and every one of them

1232
01:20:14,840 --> 01:20:18,680
are Darwinian, and they think that they think that we

1233
01:20:18,760 --> 01:20:25,600
are evolving into one big mass clump that will bring

1234
01:20:25,680 --> 01:20:30,560
the utopia. Now I'm not again, it's not it's not

1235
01:20:30,600 --> 01:20:35,079
that Marxism is the point. It's that people believe these

1236
01:20:37,039 --> 01:20:41,039
cloudy ideals and they act on them. And all the

1237
01:20:41,079 --> 01:20:45,600
founding fathers of American public schooling believed it, and they

1238
01:20:45,680 --> 01:20:47,600
even say that if you don't go along with this,

1239
01:20:47,760 --> 01:20:49,680
you're going to have to be dealt with. Hence they

1240
01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:54,279
were behind mandatory public schooling and the idea of truancy

1241
01:20:54,319 --> 01:20:54,960
and so forth.

1242
01:20:58,680 --> 01:21:02,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's there. I wasn't quite aware of all

1243
01:21:02,319 --> 01:21:06,520
that those connections there. I you know, I was, uh,

1244
01:21:07,520 --> 01:21:09,640
when I when I used to go to church, I

1245
01:21:09,640 --> 01:21:15,960
would get into debates a lot about about the Sunday school, uh,

1246
01:21:16,359 --> 01:21:22,000
a whole set up in the churches, and I would,

1247
01:21:22,199 --> 01:21:25,319
you know, among other things, I would you know, question

1248
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:28,319
stuff you know that's going on, doctrinal issues and stuff

1249
01:21:28,359 --> 01:21:30,560
like that, and I was just you know, I would

1250
01:21:30,560 --> 01:21:33,800
get into discussions with the creatures and stuff about hey,

1251
01:21:33,800 --> 01:21:36,680
you know, I mean, how is this, uh, you know,

1252
01:21:36,760 --> 01:21:39,960
remind me how this is scriptural because I don't see.

1253
01:21:40,119 --> 01:21:42,960
I see admonitions in the Bible to raise up your children,

1254
01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:46,279
but those are two the parents. That's not something that

1255
01:21:46,319 --> 01:21:50,439
you naturally delegate to somebody else. So so I had

1256
01:21:50,439 --> 01:21:53,000
a problem with the whole Sunday school concept, you know,

1257
01:21:53,039 --> 01:21:55,680
this principle of it. It's like, oh, well, you know,

1258
01:21:55,800 --> 01:21:58,680
you you turn your child over to somebody else to

1259
01:21:59,199 --> 01:22:00,760
bring them up in the way they should go. And

1260
01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:02,760
it's like, well, I don't think that's what the Bible

1261
01:22:02,800 --> 01:22:05,199
is talking about. I think it's admonitions of parents, really,

1262
01:22:06,000 --> 01:22:09,279
and uh so, yeah, I'll go round and around with

1263
01:22:09,359 --> 01:22:15,479
him on that, and uh, it's just the idea behind it,

1264
01:22:15,520 --> 01:22:19,960
and I think that's probably what you just brought up.

1265
01:22:20,000 --> 01:22:22,399
There had a lot to do with that being implemented

1266
01:22:22,520 --> 01:22:24,720
in the churches.

1267
01:22:23,760 --> 01:22:26,960
Speaker 1: Uh, because it's it's like kindergarten.

1268
01:22:27,720 --> 01:22:30,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what it's like. And it's kind of like

1269
01:22:30,039 --> 01:22:34,079
a it's just a principle of the idea that like, yeah,

1270
01:22:34,239 --> 01:22:37,399
you even uh take your take your child and put

1271
01:22:37,439 --> 01:22:40,199
them in turn them over to somebody else in order

1272
01:22:40,239 --> 01:22:42,439
to teach them about the Bible even you know.

1273
01:22:43,239 --> 01:22:46,079
Speaker 1: Well, the founder of the idea of kindergarten is a

1274
01:22:46,159 --> 01:22:51,520
German guy, Friedrich Schrubeu, and he was borrowing his ideas

1275
01:22:51,560 --> 01:22:55,560
from the Prussian model of statism. And so the American

1276
01:22:55,600 --> 01:22:58,399
public education system, by the way, is all directly from

1277
01:22:58,399 --> 01:23:02,800
the Prussian state model of education, which was all collectives

1278
01:23:04,079 --> 01:23:07,279
and based on Hegel's philosophy of the state as the

1279
01:23:07,319 --> 01:23:10,479
march of God in history. Now I'm going to read

1280
01:23:10,520 --> 01:23:14,640
you in America, so Rubel was German. I'm going to

1281
01:23:14,720 --> 01:23:19,800
read you his evangelist in America a woman by the

1282
01:23:19,880 --> 01:23:30,760
name of what is her name, Emma Marwadel, some American

1283
01:23:30,880 --> 01:23:35,520
education woman. And then her horseman's sister in law is

1284
01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:39,039
a woman by the name of Elizabeth Peabody. This is

1285
01:23:39,039 --> 01:23:42,560
what Elizabeth Peabody says as she's going around promoting why

1286
01:23:42,600 --> 01:23:45,399
we have to have kindergarten. I'm not making this up, okay,

1287
01:23:45,479 --> 01:23:50,079
she says. She says kindergarten is true education because it

1288
01:23:50,159 --> 01:23:53,439
is a religion. It is not a vocation. It is

1289
01:23:53,479 --> 01:23:57,840
a vocation from God. It is the means to the millennium.

1290
01:23:58,439 --> 01:24:05,720
Speaker 7: Children understood leading, children understood leading in the promised millennium

1291
01:24:05,840 --> 01:24:09,600
of peace on earth and good will among men will.

1292
01:24:09,399 --> 01:24:14,479
Speaker 1: Make mankind forget the babble of confusion and it's experimenting

1293
01:24:15,079 --> 01:24:19,279
and enter into the mutual understanding of the Pentecost miracle.

1294
01:24:20,479 --> 01:24:24,720
So she literally she's saying public education, not just a

1295
01:24:24,760 --> 01:24:28,680
public education. When we have kindergarten everywhere, it will bring

1296
01:24:28,720 --> 01:24:32,800
the millennium and the reversal of Babel. It's a new Pentecost.

1297
01:24:33,800 --> 01:24:34,239
Speaker 4: Wow.

1298
01:24:34,800 --> 01:24:37,079
Speaker 1: Now there's hundreds of quotes like this. I know it's

1299
01:24:37,119 --> 01:24:41,000
hard to believe, but yeah, all of these. She goes

1300
01:24:41,039 --> 01:24:44,520
on to say, it's my prayer that God's will be

1301
01:24:44,520 --> 01:24:46,760
done on earth, and the way that we bring this

1302
01:24:47,039 --> 01:24:50,720
is through public education. She says, kindergarten will eradicate poverty,

1303
01:24:50,760 --> 01:24:52,960
it will prevent war, it will see to it that

1304
01:24:53,079 --> 01:24:57,640
dictators will rise no more. It will completely alter the

1305
01:24:57,720 --> 01:25:00,720
environment because the only she says, an the only way

1306
01:25:00,760 --> 01:25:02,800
that a kid could ever turn evil is because of

1307
01:25:02,840 --> 01:25:06,880
an evil environment. Now, what's interesting is that all of

1308
01:25:06,920 --> 01:25:11,439
these thinkers all have the same view that everything about

1309
01:25:11,479 --> 01:25:16,119
man is external. So in other words, everything that man,

1310
01:25:16,640 --> 01:25:21,479
all man's actions, are a result of the external stimuli

1311
01:25:22,079 --> 01:25:25,399
that he's received. And so this is why JB. Watson,

1312
01:25:25,479 --> 01:25:28,960
the founder of behaviorism, is so important to this school

1313
01:25:29,000 --> 01:25:33,399
because he says that the behaviorist techniques of operant conditioning,

1314
01:25:33,760 --> 01:25:39,399
stimulus response, deprogramming, and reprogramming repatterning. He says it will

1315
01:25:39,479 --> 01:25:45,000
lead to the idea of total conditioning through public schooling.

1316
01:25:46,720 --> 01:25:48,399
M Yeah.

1317
01:25:48,439 --> 01:25:52,640
Speaker 4: And if you notice, like anything that you look at,

1318
01:25:53,319 --> 01:25:57,439
if it's dealing with like the third world of developing

1319
01:25:58,000 --> 01:26:01,520
economies and stuff like that, or anything to do with

1320
01:26:02,560 --> 01:26:06,960
you know, international relations, anything like that, it's always like

1321
01:26:07,000 --> 01:26:12,359
this heavy emphasis on school Yes, like the Yeah, those

1322
01:26:12,399 --> 01:26:16,800
in poverty, our primary concern is like we we need

1323
01:26:16,840 --> 01:26:20,720
to ensure and we need to help them get schools

1324
01:26:20,920 --> 01:26:25,319
and get education because education in schooling is so vital

1325
01:26:25,840 --> 01:26:29,520
to you know, economic prosperity and developing countries and all

1326
01:26:29,560 --> 01:26:33,479
that stuff. And there's so much emphasis placed on schooling

1327
01:26:33,880 --> 01:26:38,279
and so that it's now synonymous with if you can't

1328
01:26:38,319 --> 01:26:43,319
attend school, that's equal to poverty, that's equal to low

1329
01:26:43,399 --> 01:26:46,760
quality of life, that's equal to which in a lot

1330
01:26:46,760 --> 01:26:51,439
of respects, if you're in this artificial system, it is true.

1331
01:26:51,560 --> 01:26:54,920
It's like this uh, you know, self affirming thing that

1332
01:26:55,239 --> 01:26:59,920
exists in our in so called civilization. But yeah, but

1333
01:27:00,079 --> 01:27:05,159
you'll always hear about this. This just heavy drumbeat about

1334
01:27:05,439 --> 01:27:08,560
you know how how important that is. It's so important

1335
01:27:08,600 --> 01:27:11,960
to get these young minds into the classroom environment.

1336
01:27:12,439 --> 01:27:15,279
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And when you look at say, go to

1337
01:27:15,319 --> 01:27:18,960
the rock Tiller Foundation website and you pull up their

1338
01:27:19,159 --> 01:27:22,560
white papers on the budget and where the money's gone.

1339
01:27:22,600 --> 01:27:24,479
Where they which they all put up, they put it

1340
01:27:24,560 --> 01:27:26,960
up on there. Where does most of that money go.

1341
01:27:27,119 --> 01:27:31,199
It goes to education and schools in foreign countries, and

1342
01:27:31,239 --> 01:27:35,439
women's rights in foreign countries, which that means vaccines.

1343
01:27:34,840 --> 01:27:39,840
Speaker 4: And horses and yeah, breaking down the family by uh.

1344
01:27:40,279 --> 01:27:44,680
And I heard us in the like in Africa where

1345
01:27:44,720 --> 01:27:47,920
they have these micro loans and like, yeah, men don't

1346
01:27:48,000 --> 01:27:50,800
qualify for them. It's like mainly given to women. So

1347
01:27:50,840 --> 01:27:53,720
it's like you take the economic power, you turn it

1348
01:27:53,840 --> 01:27:57,479
over to the women. Yeah, it was a great Yeah,

1349
01:27:57,640 --> 01:28:01,359
And uh so, uh, I understanding full well what the

1350
01:28:01,439 --> 01:28:07,800
overall fallout from all that which they're realizing it now,

1351
01:28:07,960 --> 01:28:12,159
But you know, I mean it's it's it's showing itself now.

1352
01:28:12,199 --> 01:28:17,239
But yeah, see they totally understand that up front. And

1353
01:28:17,279 --> 01:28:20,439
that's to break apart, the family break and to destroy

1354
01:28:20,520 --> 01:28:25,960
the traditional culture and structure, social structure.

1355
01:28:26,479 --> 01:28:29,720
Speaker 1: Yes, everything has to be melded into this generic absolute,

1356
01:28:29,840 --> 01:28:34,960
this pomanism that Huxley talked about. Here's JB. Watson describing

1357
01:28:34,960 --> 01:28:39,079
his behaviorism. He says, in one sweeping assumption after another,

1358
01:28:39,359 --> 01:28:42,600
the behaviorist throws out the concept of both mind and

1359
01:28:42,640 --> 01:28:46,439
consciousness and calls them carryovers from the church dogma of

1360
01:28:46,479 --> 01:28:51,039
the Middle Ages. The behaviorists thinks that the soul is

1361
01:28:51,079 --> 01:28:54,600
a masquerade. The behaviorist finds no mind in his laboratory.

1362
01:28:54,920 --> 01:28:58,000
He sees it nowhere in his subject. If the behaviorists

1363
01:28:58,039 --> 01:29:00,479
are right in their contention that there is no mind

1364
01:29:00,520 --> 01:29:04,439
body problem, then it is because there is no mind,

1365
01:29:05,479 --> 01:29:08,159
there can be no such thing as consciousness or an

1366
01:29:08,239 --> 01:29:15,600
unconscious And here's the best quote. He says. Thus, prediction

1367
01:29:15,760 --> 01:29:19,279
and control are the essence of the heaviourism. He says,

1368
01:29:19,319 --> 01:29:25,640
give me a child and my world, give me the

1369
01:29:25,680 --> 01:29:27,920
baby and my world to bring it up, and I

1370
01:29:27,960 --> 01:29:30,880
will make it crawl and walk, I will make it climb,

1371
01:29:30,920 --> 01:29:34,039
and I will make its hands, make use of its hands,

1372
01:29:34,039 --> 01:29:36,840
and constructing buildings of stone or wood. I will make

1373
01:29:36,880 --> 01:29:39,319
it a thief, a gunman, or a dope feed I

1374
01:29:39,399 --> 01:29:42,880
will build you, make him death and mute. I will

1375
01:29:42,880 --> 01:29:50,319
build you a helen Keller. Stimulus and response, he says,

1376
01:29:50,920 --> 01:29:53,960
is everything. And that's of course, as many people have

1377
01:29:54,000 --> 01:29:56,119
pointed out, when you go to public school, you hear

1378
01:29:56,239 --> 01:29:58,880
the dog bells that ring in between the classes.

1379
01:30:00,319 --> 01:30:06,760
Speaker 4: Uh. Yeah, I've talked about this with I. Uh noticed

1380
01:30:06,880 --> 01:30:13,359
the U This is uh, this is a while back.

1381
01:30:14,079 --> 01:30:17,880
This this particular individual like their children are you know,

1382
01:30:17,880 --> 01:30:21,319
of course going to public school, and one of their

1383
01:30:21,399 --> 01:30:24,279
children come back with this like red stamp on their

1384
01:30:24,319 --> 01:30:28,880
hand and they was crying, like the child was like

1385
01:30:29,119 --> 01:30:33,199
bawling his eyes out, and I was like, what's going on?

1386
01:30:33,359 --> 01:30:35,920
I was like, this is this is odd? And it's

1387
01:30:35,960 --> 01:30:40,359
oh he got a bad stamp or something like that,

1388
01:30:40,479 --> 01:30:45,000
like you like, they'll the teacher put the stamp on

1389
01:30:45,039 --> 01:30:47,079
his hand. It was like a red stamp of some

1390
01:30:47,119 --> 01:30:50,760
sort to identify that he had done something wrong in

1391
01:30:50,800 --> 01:30:53,319
school and he had to go around with his red

1392
01:30:53,399 --> 01:30:56,640
stamp and I was like, wow, freaking scarlet letter and

1393
01:30:56,680 --> 01:31:02,680
all this shit. Yeah, it's like, holy crap, man. I mean,

1394
01:31:03,039 --> 01:31:07,079
I just I was a speechless. I was like, what

1395
01:31:07,880 --> 01:31:11,600
you'll Yeah, oh, I was just saying like his dad

1396
01:31:11,800 --> 01:31:13,520
didn't think anything of it. He thought it was kind

1397
01:31:13,520 --> 01:31:14,199
of numorous.

1398
01:31:14,800 --> 01:31:15,560
Speaker 1: That's ridiculous.

1399
01:31:15,520 --> 01:31:15,880
Speaker 4: Wow.

1400
01:31:17,319 --> 01:31:19,640
Speaker 1: The author has an insightful and this his book was

1401
01:31:19,640 --> 01:31:22,920
written back in nineteen sixty three, predicting what would happen

1402
01:31:23,000 --> 01:31:28,319
with American education system. And he says, Watson's goals now,

1403
01:31:28,359 --> 01:31:32,840
this is JB. Watson. The behaviors are the goals of

1404
01:31:32,880 --> 01:31:37,560
science today. Science aims at the creation of life itself

1405
01:31:37,720 --> 01:31:42,399
through biochemistry. It aims at the creation of minds through machines,

1406
01:31:42,960 --> 01:31:45,600
and it aims at the reconditioning of minds by medication

1407
01:31:45,760 --> 01:31:50,000
and drugs capable of controlling and remaking man. Science also

1408
01:31:50,039 --> 01:31:53,439
aims at total social engineering and control through the state.

1409
01:31:54,119 --> 01:31:56,520
It has even been proposed that man will one day

1410
01:31:56,560 --> 01:32:00,000
be wired at birth for permanent control through electrical impulse.

1411
01:32:00,000 --> 01:32:02,239
This was written back in nineteen sixty three.

1412
01:32:03,119 --> 01:32:03,239
Speaker 2: Mm.

1413
01:32:05,199 --> 01:32:15,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that is seems like we're moving forward into

1414
01:32:15,840 --> 01:32:20,960
that with the advent of the smartphone now and uh

1415
01:32:22,159 --> 01:32:25,600
so it's sort of this device that is like for

1416
01:32:25,680 --> 01:32:29,439
so many people, it's it's it's like an extension of

1417
01:32:29,479 --> 01:32:33,399
their you know, personhood. So it's something that's always with them,

1418
01:32:33,680 --> 01:32:39,880
always referring to it, always interacting with it, and with

1419
01:32:39,880 --> 01:32:42,439
with with that in mind, which is you just got

1420
01:32:42,439 --> 01:32:46,239
through reading and then what you hear about these you

1421
01:32:46,279 --> 01:32:51,640
know tech these techno technology technological or technolroti or these

1422
01:32:51,960 --> 01:32:56,319
technologically leaks stuff that are talking about, Yeah, you know,

1423
01:32:56,840 --> 01:33:00,960
putting microchips in themselves, that's already happening already. Have these

1424
01:33:01,319 --> 01:33:06,920
kits that you can order online to self inject an

1425
01:33:07,039 --> 01:33:09,479
RFID tag so that you can you know, open your

1426
01:33:09,479 --> 01:33:11,920
doors without having to you know, drag your keys out

1427
01:33:11,920 --> 01:33:14,960
of your pocket and all that other great stuff. And

1428
01:33:15,359 --> 01:33:21,520
uh yeah, so how long does this this particular phase

1429
01:33:21,640 --> 01:33:26,399
have to have to be in play before you start

1430
01:33:26,399 --> 01:33:30,359
seeing the uh the implant that the neural implant that

1431
01:33:30,520 --> 01:33:34,159
directly interfaces with the brain so that you don't have

1432
01:33:34,199 --> 01:33:37,079
to fumble around with this piece of external equipment.

1433
01:33:42,359 --> 01:33:45,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would just had a conversation with my girlfriend then,

1434
01:33:45,520 --> 01:33:49,279
not about that. How soon is it going to be

1435
01:33:49,279 --> 01:33:52,079
before we start seeing this. There was an article yesterday

1436
01:33:52,319 --> 01:33:56,640
about Facebook is actually going to be and I was

1437
01:33:56,680 --> 01:33:59,319
on a boiler room conversation and somebody brought this up

1438
01:34:00,479 --> 01:34:03,039
a few months ago. I didn't know this, but apparently

1439
01:34:03,880 --> 01:34:07,600
Facebook is going to be one of the leading means

1440
01:34:07,680 --> 01:34:11,239
by which virtual reality is going to be implemented, believe

1441
01:34:11,279 --> 01:34:13,439
it or not, which I guess kind of makes sense

1442
01:34:13,520 --> 01:34:16,600
because there's like a billion people on Facebook, and what

1443
01:34:16,640 --> 01:34:21,600
they're gonna do is they're gonna start implementing virtual reality

1444
01:34:21,640 --> 01:34:25,600
through chat. Right, So what's gonna happen is you're gonna

1445
01:34:25,640 --> 01:34:28,319
go in a chat room and everybody's gonna put their

1446
01:34:28,359 --> 01:34:31,520
goggles on, and you're gonna be chatting with your buddies,

1447
01:34:31,840 --> 01:34:34,399
you know, in this virtual chat room, and you know,

1448
01:34:34,439 --> 01:34:37,079
you might be Marilyn Monroe, and then I guess somebody

1449
01:34:37,119 --> 01:34:40,920
will be Elvis, and then somebody will be a Pokemon.

1450
01:34:41,600 --> 01:34:43,640
Speaker 4: Or yeah, Lammy from Oterhead or.

1451
01:34:43,520 --> 01:34:47,359
Speaker 1: Whatever Otorhead and Johnny Depp and yeah, and so that's

1452
01:34:47,399 --> 01:34:52,159
what's apparently coming. And uh, there was a big mainstream

1453
01:34:52,239 --> 01:34:57,439
article about Facebook doing this. Trying to remember the title

1454
01:34:57,439 --> 01:35:00,840
of the article. Facebook's latest virtual reality. The innovation is

1455
01:35:00,880 --> 01:35:01,920
a big deal is.

1456
01:35:01,920 --> 01:35:07,479
Speaker 4: A totally hard Well, Jay, this will certainly have applications

1457
01:35:07,520 --> 01:35:13,960
towards education. I'm sure right, we know how important.

1458
01:35:14,479 --> 01:35:18,239
Speaker 1: Will be able to be taught directly. Uh, we'll be

1459
01:35:18,279 --> 01:35:20,720
able to stand directly at the feet of the great

1460
01:35:20,760 --> 01:35:26,319
scientists who discovered the bat people on the moon, and

1461
01:35:26,359 --> 01:35:29,000
we'll be able to look in virtual telescopes and we'll

1462
01:35:29,039 --> 01:35:32,520
see the bat people, the little CGI sixteen bit bat

1463
01:35:32,560 --> 01:35:34,039
people dancing around the moon.

1464
01:35:36,079 --> 01:35:40,039
Speaker 4: To shoot them with little Cansas little First, you'll.

1465
01:35:39,880 --> 01:35:42,319
Speaker 1: Have a duck Hunter. You'll have the gun from Nintendo

1466
01:35:42,439 --> 01:35:46,560
Duck Hunt that you can but you'll have to but

1467
01:35:46,800 --> 01:35:49,359
it's you'll have to use the reflector that they use

1468
01:35:49,439 --> 01:35:52,560
to balance signals that light off the moon because you've

1469
01:35:52,520 --> 01:35:53,640
got to get in there.

1470
01:35:55,640 --> 01:36:00,000
Speaker 4: It's like an extra bonus points for ricocheting and off

1471
01:36:00,079 --> 01:36:03,840
the reflector to the bath hut or whatever you're trying

1472
01:36:03,840 --> 01:36:04,279
to blow up.

1473
01:36:05,960 --> 01:36:10,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you've got oculus Oculus rift and then this

1474
01:36:10,479 --> 01:36:14,560
whatever this Facebook virtual thing is. Maybe that's oculus. I

1475
01:36:14,600 --> 01:36:16,079
can't remember, but.

1476
01:36:16,119 --> 01:36:20,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know about that being something that I

1477
01:36:20,760 --> 01:36:24,520
keep hearing because I've heard I've heard about this years ago, right,

1478
01:36:24,520 --> 01:36:27,439
I mean, yeah, and I don't I don't know if

1479
01:36:27,479 --> 01:36:30,319
they're ever going to overcome the motion sickness thing, because

1480
01:36:30,399 --> 01:36:33,119
people are still talking about that. But this Oculus rift

1481
01:36:33,119 --> 01:36:36,039
they said, yeah, I know, it's it's fantastic, It's wonderful.

1482
01:36:36,399 --> 01:36:39,159
You get on it for like ten minutes, max. Because

1483
01:36:39,199 --> 01:36:41,000
after ten minutes, you're like, you got to run to

1484
01:36:41,039 --> 01:36:43,680
the toilet. You're going to put your lunch in there,

1485
01:36:43,760 --> 01:36:48,000
you know, because it makes people motion sick. Oh yeah,

1486
01:36:48,560 --> 01:36:49,520
I didn't know what around it.

1487
01:36:49,760 --> 01:36:52,039
Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say, you know, they've

1488
01:36:52,079 --> 01:36:54,439
been talking about virtual reality since the eighties and it's

1489
01:36:54,479 --> 01:36:55,279
not going to be here.

1490
01:36:56,880 --> 01:36:58,680
Speaker 4: Well, they had it. They had it in the nineties.

1491
01:36:58,760 --> 01:37:01,760
They had it. I remember it at some uh some

1492
01:37:02,439 --> 01:37:05,279
electronic show or something. I went two years ago. They

1493
01:37:05,279 --> 01:37:08,520
had they had a demonstration of it.

1494
01:37:08,560 --> 01:37:12,640
Speaker 1: In the growing up in San Diego, we used to

1495
01:37:12,680 --> 01:37:17,840
go to the mall and they had a VR demonstrations

1496
01:37:17,840 --> 01:37:19,279
in the mall that you could look in the thing.

1497
01:37:19,359 --> 01:37:20,880
I did it to you. You can look in the thing

1498
01:37:20,880 --> 01:37:24,199
and it's real cheese cheese ball max bedroom install graphics

1499
01:37:24,239 --> 01:37:27,399
back then. But but yeah, that's a great point. I

1500
01:37:27,399 --> 01:37:31,399
don't see how this would function that. You know, everybody's

1501
01:37:31,439 --> 01:37:35,560
going to be puking. Maybe they'll maybe they'll sell everybody

1502
01:37:35,600 --> 01:37:37,680
a pharmaceutical that that you.

1503
01:37:37,720 --> 01:37:40,039
Speaker 4: Take they don't, I don't know. Or maybe you have

1504
01:37:40,159 --> 01:37:42,159
to go get surgery or something, and I guess people

1505
01:37:42,199 --> 01:37:45,439
will go get their cochlea removed or something like that

1506
01:37:45,520 --> 01:37:49,119
so they don't, or get an artificial one put in,

1507
01:37:50,039 --> 01:37:52,439
or maybe like a bypass switch so you can switch

1508
01:37:52,479 --> 01:37:56,159
off your cochlear or your inner ear so you don't

1509
01:37:56,159 --> 01:37:58,159
get You could just like turn it off and on

1510
01:37:58,239 --> 01:38:00,720
some switch they'll put on you. I don't know. How

1511
01:38:00,720 --> 01:38:03,279
are they going to get around that? I don't It's

1512
01:38:03,399 --> 01:38:07,560
it seems like an insurmountable obstacle to this because it

1513
01:38:07,560 --> 01:38:09,760
would already be a thing. I think, I believe if

1514
01:38:09,760 --> 01:38:10,640
it wasn't for that.

1515
01:38:11,079 --> 01:38:15,319
Speaker 1: Well, this we'll probably tie into the recent trend of

1516
01:38:15,439 --> 01:38:20,319
the online education. Right. So, now, even back when I

1517
01:38:20,359 --> 01:38:24,279
was doing undergrad my university started implementing this thing where, oh,

1518
01:38:24,279 --> 01:38:27,079
you don't have to come to class anymore. We're doing

1519
01:38:27,119 --> 01:38:30,119
all these online classes and I don't I didn't ever

1520
01:38:30,199 --> 01:38:31,880
take any of them because it gets on my nerves

1521
01:38:31,920 --> 01:38:35,439
done it that way. But but this is getting really

1522
01:38:35,439 --> 01:38:38,199
big now where it's more and more commonplace to have

1523
01:38:38,319 --> 01:38:43,359
your whole course at college just online. And I think

1524
01:38:43,399 --> 01:38:46,319
that that's going to continue to grow and so maybe

1525
01:38:46,359 --> 01:38:49,840
they'll implement you know, VR through that. But yeah, like

1526
01:38:49,880 --> 01:38:52,800
you said, I don't know how that's gonna I guess

1527
01:38:52,840 --> 01:38:54,600
you have to take a bunch of drama meine every day.

1528
01:38:54,640 --> 01:38:55,680
I don't know what you do.

1529
01:38:56,039 --> 01:38:57,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, just dose up.

1530
01:38:57,720 --> 01:38:58,039
Speaker 3: I don't.

1531
01:38:58,119 --> 01:39:03,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, what are you going to do to uh to

1532
01:39:03,279 --> 01:39:06,239
get around that? Yeah, I don't. I don't know what

1533
01:39:06,439 --> 01:39:10,439
the uh the plant. I guess they released this Oculus

1534
01:39:10,520 --> 01:39:14,600
rift thing and you could buy one now and uh,

1535
01:39:15,199 --> 01:39:18,119
but you know, people are still complaining about the motion

1536
01:39:18,279 --> 01:39:23,359
sickness issue on this thing, and uh, you know you're

1537
01:39:23,399 --> 01:39:26,760
hearing all this stuff talked about with Microsoft is in

1538
01:39:26,880 --> 01:39:29,399
on it, Facebook's talking about it and all these different

1539
01:39:29,560 --> 01:39:34,560
big companies or Google of course, and this augmented reality,

1540
01:39:34,600 --> 01:39:38,359
this virtual reality stuff. But uh, they seem to like

1541
01:39:38,439 --> 01:39:42,880
downplay the whole motion sickness issue like it's like it's

1542
01:39:43,079 --> 01:39:48,439
no big thing. But it's it just seems like, uh,

1543
01:39:48,600 --> 01:39:55,960
maybe the one big saving, one big saving hang up

1544
01:39:55,960 --> 01:39:58,560
on that thing is the is the fact that just

1545
01:39:58,720 --> 01:40:02,279
people can't adapt to that. You know, we could adapt

1546
01:40:02,279 --> 01:40:05,079
to everything, but we just can't adapt to being put

1547
01:40:05,119 --> 01:40:10,039
in these artificial environments like that because we just something

1548
01:40:10,039 --> 01:40:13,760
else has to come along to deal with that.

1549
01:40:14,439 --> 01:40:18,319
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I wonder it seems like I'm just

1550
01:40:18,359 --> 01:40:22,840
speculating here, but younger persons that play video games all

1551
01:40:22,880 --> 01:40:25,319
the time I'm talking about, like the people who sit

1552
01:40:25,399 --> 01:40:29,479
and play Halo all day, they seem to not be

1553
01:40:29,560 --> 01:40:34,079
as affected by this, And oh really, I can't do that,

1554
01:40:34,119 --> 01:40:35,920
Like I if I tried to play one of those

1555
01:40:36,000 --> 01:40:38,239
like Halo or something like that for more than ten minutes,

1556
01:40:38,279 --> 01:40:38,920
I get sick.

1557
01:40:40,159 --> 01:40:40,680
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1558
01:40:40,720 --> 01:40:43,279
Speaker 1: So I wonder if the thinking isn't oh, you know,

1559
01:40:43,319 --> 01:40:45,560
the younger generations are going to be who's doing this,

1560
01:40:45,720 --> 01:40:47,359
and you know they're going to adapt to it, and

1561
01:40:49,079 --> 01:40:50,800
microevolution they're going to adapt to.

1562
01:40:50,760 --> 01:40:51,239
Speaker 2: It, right.

1563
01:40:53,399 --> 01:40:59,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't think that's even possible

1564
01:40:59,600 --> 01:41:03,239
even you know, it's a but uh yeah, it seems

1565
01:41:03,279 --> 01:41:04,279
like no.

1566
01:41:04,279 --> 01:41:07,359
Speaker 1: Now, Chris, if you understood evolution, you would know that

1567
01:41:08,199 --> 01:41:11,560
if we if we work at it and just keep

1568
01:41:11,600 --> 01:41:16,399
at it, Uh, the virtual reality goggles will eventually just

1569
01:41:16,520 --> 01:41:20,279
meld into our skin and bone and they will become

1570
01:41:20,319 --> 01:41:23,960
a feature of our cranium and that's just how evolution works.

1571
01:41:24,000 --> 01:41:29,159
Don't understand evolution will adapt to it. Man, don't you

1572
01:41:29,199 --> 01:41:30,000
understand evolution?

1573
01:41:31,319 --> 01:41:37,640
Speaker 4: I guess I don't. I I I uh, yeah, I

1574
01:41:37,680 --> 01:41:38,680
think that is.

1575
01:41:40,520 --> 01:41:46,000
Speaker 5: Like it it It seems like because because i'm I'm

1576
01:41:46,079 --> 01:41:50,760
I'm of the school thought that, uh, you know, none

1577
01:41:50,840 --> 01:41:54,840
of these plans, these long range plans are a given.

1578
01:41:55,479 --> 01:41:59,960
Speaker 4: You know, just because they have the means to carry

1579
01:42:00,119 --> 01:42:05,960
this stuff out, you know, doesn't mean it's gonna be successful.

1580
01:42:07,119 --> 01:42:10,640
And what evidence do we have available to us that

1581
01:42:10,840 --> 01:42:12,880
all of this stuff will go through as planned?

1582
01:42:13,199 --> 01:42:13,880
Speaker 1: That's true?

1583
01:42:14,199 --> 01:42:16,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean you listen to like somebody like Alan Watt,

1584
01:42:17,039 --> 01:42:19,640
and it's like, uh, he's going to tell you that

1585
01:42:19,680 --> 01:42:22,199
it's it's it's pretty much a done deal, that it's

1586
01:42:22,199 --> 01:42:25,079
a must be and then it's gonna it's it's gonna

1587
01:42:25,680 --> 01:42:28,479
it's gonna happen. But I'm not so sure about that.

1588
01:42:28,920 --> 01:42:35,039
It's I think that the human form as it is

1589
01:42:35,199 --> 01:42:40,239
is such so much more dynamic and resilient, and uh,

1590
01:42:40,399 --> 01:42:43,359
then then you know credit is given to it, like

1591
01:42:43,399 --> 01:42:48,680
the human mind, the human uh, the human being itself.

1592
01:42:49,079 --> 01:42:50,640
Speaker 1: Hi, folks, I'm.

1593
01:42:52,000 --> 01:42:55,920
Speaker 8: And I'm here to tell you that there's no hope

1594
01:42:56,800 --> 01:43:00,680
big boys, big boys planned it for a long time.

1595
01:43:00,840 --> 01:43:12,199
The big boys, big boys, the bankers, co Quigleys. I'm

1596
01:43:12,199 --> 01:43:15,479
Alan Woo prosidor Doom.

1597
01:43:15,680 --> 01:43:18,520
Speaker 4: Anyway, that's pretty good.

1598
01:43:19,039 --> 01:43:22,199
Speaker 1: I don't know, it needs need some work, I guess

1599
01:43:22,359 --> 01:43:28,960
the I have a comment for you, Chris. This is

1600
01:43:29,319 --> 01:43:33,800
some dude. Adam Walsh commented on your post that I

1601
01:43:33,880 --> 01:43:39,119
put up on my site where you deconstructed the Dawkinites

1602
01:43:39,359 --> 01:43:44,640
on that YouTube show, and I responded to this person,

1603
01:43:44,840 --> 01:43:46,359
but I thought you might want to respond to him

1604
01:43:46,359 --> 01:43:49,119
as well, and he says a good example of evolution

1605
01:43:49,960 --> 01:43:53,960
for you, doubting Thomas's would be the Atlantic tom cod

1606
01:43:54,239 --> 01:43:57,760
that has evolved to survive in the heavily polluted Hudson River.

1607
01:43:58,560 --> 01:44:02,279
Even rats that have become immune to poison and which

1608
01:44:02,319 --> 01:44:05,319
are bigger because of the fatty junk food thrown in

1609
01:44:05,359 --> 01:44:10,119
the streets by Slavs. There are fish that can There

1610
01:44:10,159 --> 01:44:13,680
are fish that can walk. I suppose Chris from Hoastbusters

1611
01:44:13,680 --> 01:44:18,119
would say the Australian walking perch is only claiming it

1612
01:44:18,159 --> 01:44:20,479
can survive up to six days on dry land.

1613
01:44:23,079 --> 01:44:27,800
Speaker 4: Well, there's the bacteria that's been observed to develop the

1614
01:44:27,840 --> 01:44:34,079
ability to digest nylon. There's changes in bacteria that where

1615
01:44:34,199 --> 01:44:40,720
they had previously no no observable ability to digest like citrate,

1616
01:44:41,159 --> 01:44:44,520
and then they didn't been observed to be able to

1617
01:44:44,760 --> 01:44:53,239
digest sit trate butchs there you go. Yeah, and then Jay,

1618
01:44:53,239 --> 01:44:56,399
are you noticing any gray hairs on your head? I do,

1619
01:44:59,000 --> 01:45:02,279
So that's biological change over time. That's Darwin. So that's

1620
01:45:02,359 --> 01:45:08,439
proof too. Uh. I got a scab on my leg.

1621
01:45:08,520 --> 01:45:11,520
I picked it and it bled, so that blood was

1622
01:45:11,640 --> 01:45:14,039
inside my leg and then it's on the outside. So

1623
01:45:14,079 --> 01:45:19,560
that's transfer biological biological change over time because the scab healed,

1624
01:45:19,600 --> 01:45:20,359
So that's Darwin.

1625
01:45:21,439 --> 01:45:22,079
Speaker 2: Uh.

1626
01:45:22,159 --> 01:45:24,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's all proof, man, It's all all of it's proof.

1627
01:45:25,840 --> 01:45:29,720
But uh well, if you think about it for a minute,

1628
01:45:31,479 --> 01:45:37,359
you think about domestic the domestication of animals and they bred.

1629
01:45:37,640 --> 01:45:40,960
Uh let's take one breed of dog for instance, like

1630
01:45:41,000 --> 01:45:46,159
the uh what are those dogs that they used to

1631
01:45:46,159 --> 01:45:48,359
to hunt foxes or like a beagle or something, you know,

1632
01:45:48,439 --> 01:45:52,600
like they use the bread to hunt fox that can

1633
01:45:52,640 --> 01:45:55,319
get down in the foxhole has shorter legs as the shorter,

1634
01:45:55,479 --> 01:46:00,920
stumpier body has you know, the good uh uh broadcasts

1635
01:46:00,960 --> 01:46:04,279
so that it can run keep up with the keep

1636
01:46:04,359 --> 01:46:08,479
up with the the the hunters, keep up with the clocks.

1637
01:46:09,840 --> 01:46:13,800
So that so that is that that creature is has

1638
01:46:13,880 --> 01:46:19,239
adapted to that those requirements as far as its usefulness

1639
01:46:19,279 --> 01:46:21,840
as a domesticated animal. But that's see, that's something that

1640
01:46:21,960 --> 01:46:28,520
was observed ages before Darwin, right exactly, So how does

1641
01:46:28,520 --> 01:46:30,760
that happen? Jay? I mean, how does that? How do

1642
01:46:30,800 --> 01:46:34,119
you go from a wolf like creature to a beagle?

1643
01:46:34,960 --> 01:46:39,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, that's how. The thing is that everyone uses

1644
01:46:39,800 --> 01:46:44,600
the taxonomy of species. The Darwinian theorists believe that species

1645
01:46:44,720 --> 01:46:47,920
is not a real property. It's just a term that's

1646
01:46:48,039 --> 01:46:50,359
used and it's all completely malleable.

1647
01:46:51,039 --> 01:46:52,640
Speaker 4: Uh so, yeah, it is right.

1648
01:46:53,199 --> 01:46:57,640
Speaker 1: But but the problem is that, first of all, nobody

1649
01:46:57,680 --> 01:47:04,000
who rejects that, I'm aware, rejects evolutionary theory, denies micro

1650
01:47:04,079 --> 01:47:07,880
evolution or adaptation. Everyone believes in adaptation, and as you said,

1651
01:47:08,520 --> 01:47:11,640
it was known and believed far before Darwin. People have

1652
01:47:11,720 --> 01:47:16,039
bred dogs, as you said, for for a long long time.

1653
01:47:16,760 --> 01:47:19,880
But that has nothing to do with the idea of

1654
01:47:20,159 --> 01:47:24,039
transformism as it's called in darwin theory. The older the

1655
01:47:24,039 --> 01:47:27,880
older term for that, the idea that you get one

1656
01:47:27,960 --> 01:47:32,319
species morphing into a completely different species. Right. So when

1657
01:47:32,319 --> 01:47:34,039
we look at a dog and a wolf, I mean

1658
01:47:34,039 --> 01:47:38,079
they're they're pretty much in that same kind or category, right,

1659
01:47:38,760 --> 01:47:40,840
But that is not the same thing as a horse

1660
01:47:41,039 --> 01:47:47,520
or snake, right, or you know different creatures different you know,

1661
01:47:47,720 --> 01:47:54,319
cold blooded, warm blooded, right, omnivores and arbivores. So what

1662
01:47:54,319 --> 01:47:55,640
were you gonna say?

1663
01:47:56,399 --> 01:47:59,479
Speaker 4: No, I was just gonna say that. Well, like the

1664
01:47:59,479 --> 01:48:02,439
example I pointed out earlier about the bacteria that was

1665
01:48:02,479 --> 01:48:10,279
observed to develop this ability to digest citrate, right, Okay.

1666
01:48:09,720 --> 01:48:12,640
Speaker 1: People with darker skin living near the tropics.

1667
01:48:12,479 --> 01:48:15,880
Speaker 4: Right, yeah, So what is that? What? What are we

1668
01:48:15,960 --> 01:48:19,079
looking at when we make those observations or the scientists

1669
01:48:19,079 --> 01:48:22,399
makes those observations, What are they looking at? Okay? What

1670
01:48:22,399 --> 01:48:26,279
what is going on at the at the nuts and

1671
01:48:26,319 --> 01:48:31,000
bolts level, the the the DNA, the molecule like or

1672
01:48:31,199 --> 01:48:38,319
or I were invoking genetics? You know, the bacteria had

1673
01:48:38,359 --> 01:48:41,800
that ability, but it was a latent ability. It wasn't

1674
01:48:41,800 --> 01:48:47,880
being expressed in its morphology until certain environmental conditions were

1675
01:48:47,960 --> 01:48:51,640
it was subjected to triggered and triggered it and then

1676
01:48:51,880 --> 01:48:56,720
it's it's this dynamic change within the organism. But it

1677
01:48:56,880 --> 01:49:03,079
represents something that already exists within the genetic code of

1678
01:49:03,119 --> 01:49:06,199
that organism. Do not thing with all dog changes that

1679
01:49:06,239 --> 01:49:08,680
you observe, same thing with all horse changes you observe

1680
01:49:08,760 --> 01:49:12,600
from breeding, and all that all that potential already existed.

1681
01:49:13,119 --> 01:49:17,640
Speaker 1: You don't have the introduction of a completely new DNA

1682
01:49:17,800 --> 01:49:20,359
or the DNA of a different No.

1683
01:49:21,239 --> 01:49:26,800
Speaker 4: It's not a slow gradual shifting of molecules that resulted

1684
01:49:27,000 --> 01:49:29,640
in a new trait or a new ability. That's not

1685
01:49:29,680 --> 01:49:33,039
what you're looking at. But that's what Darwinism requires. Yes,

1686
01:49:33,359 --> 01:49:35,920
but they always conflate the two and they'll show you,

1687
01:49:35,920 --> 01:49:38,439
like an example, the fish now can survive in an

1688
01:49:38,520 --> 01:49:43,720
environment where it couldn't survive before. Well, that's demonstrating the

1689
01:49:44,399 --> 01:49:50,800
adaptability of that organism based on the genome. That it

1690
01:49:51,840 --> 01:49:54,199
an ability of that genome to do what it needed

1691
01:49:54,199 --> 01:49:57,079
to do to adapt to that environment that already existed.

1692
01:49:57,159 --> 01:50:00,800
And then that the changes in the environment it triggered

1693
01:50:01,439 --> 01:50:04,079
the expression of those genes, or a lot of times

1694
01:50:04,079 --> 01:50:09,039
it's the non expression of the genes, like with in

1695
01:50:09,039 --> 01:50:12,159
the case with dogs having short hair or no hair,

1696
01:50:12,279 --> 01:50:15,439
you know it's a it's those genes for the hair

1697
01:50:15,560 --> 01:50:18,319
the fur are not being an expressed So that's not

1698
01:50:18,520 --> 01:50:22,479
an addition of new traits that would lead to if

1699
01:50:22,479 --> 01:50:26,000
you accumulate an accumulative effect over time, that would lead

1700
01:50:26,039 --> 01:50:30,239
to a totally new organism. That's not what you're looking at.

1701
01:50:30,239 --> 01:50:35,479
You're looking at the h the inherent variitability that's already

1702
01:50:35,520 --> 01:50:38,319
present within that organism.

1703
01:50:38,680 --> 01:50:43,680
Speaker 1: Right, for the Darwinian idea to be plausible, I think

1704
01:50:43,720 --> 01:50:48,439
you would need the potentiality in every DNA sequence for

1705
01:50:48,560 --> 01:50:52,880
every single animal. Right and if if I'm going to

1706
01:50:52,880 --> 01:50:57,680
be able to swim underwater, if I'm going to develop gills,

1707
01:50:58,439 --> 01:51:02,359
then the any sequencing that the fish has should be

1708
01:51:02,359 --> 01:51:05,600
present in me. But you're not going to get that right.

1709
01:51:07,640 --> 01:51:13,079
Speaker 4: Right, Well, yeah, because not there. Yeah, it doesn't you

1710
01:51:13,119 --> 01:51:15,760
don't have it. It doesn't exist. I mean there there's

1711
01:51:16,000 --> 01:51:18,159
a lot of genetic well, I mean we see that

1712
01:51:18,239 --> 01:51:24,119
with you know, especially with stuff you know we're most

1713
01:51:24,119 --> 01:51:28,039
familiar with, like the domesticated dog, cats. You know, how

1714
01:51:28,079 --> 01:51:31,840
long do you have to breed dogs? Like if they've

1715
01:51:31,880 --> 01:51:36,520
done experiments on the silver fox, within ten years, they

1716
01:51:36,520 --> 01:51:43,800
were able to get a silver fox to exhibit traits

1717
01:51:43,840 --> 01:51:49,479
and behavior very very similar to the domesticated dog. So

1718
01:51:50,000 --> 01:51:57,359
by by selectively breeding the foxes that exhibited more docile

1719
01:51:58,159 --> 01:52:02,800
tendencies and within ten years, yeah, they were already starting

1720
01:52:02,800 --> 01:52:12,079
to get a domesticated dog like creature. But it is

1721
01:52:12,119 --> 01:52:17,600
that an example of Darwinism. Now, we're always told that

1722
01:52:17,960 --> 01:52:23,399
Darwinism takes long ages of time, and then it's the

1723
01:52:23,479 --> 01:52:32,119
accumulation of mutations that result in all these new life forms, right, right,

1724
01:52:32,840 --> 01:52:40,199
So long ages of time can also mean ten years. Well,

1725
01:52:40,560 --> 01:52:41,640
it's a long age of time.

1726
01:52:42,399 --> 01:52:45,800
Speaker 1: Another point too, is if you think about what we

1727
01:52:45,840 --> 01:52:52,319
should see given Darwinism, we should see billions of skeletal

1728
01:52:52,399 --> 01:52:55,960
remains and fossils everywhere. We should literally be drowning in these.

1729
01:52:56,279 --> 01:52:59,279
You know, you can't walk out your door without you know,

1730
01:52:59,359 --> 01:53:04,600
shooting away four feet of skeletal remains, because if you

1731
01:53:04,640 --> 01:53:09,479
think about it, there would be billions of variations of

1732
01:53:09,520 --> 01:53:11,439
all the animals that have ever existed, right all the

1733
01:53:11,479 --> 01:53:15,520
way back four point five billion years ago, right, of

1734
01:53:15,560 --> 01:53:20,239
these transitions. Right, So everybody makes the transitionary fossil argument,

1735
01:53:20,279 --> 01:53:23,279
but I'm making a different point that they should actually

1736
01:53:23,279 --> 01:53:28,520
be everywhere because there would be billions of species right

1737
01:53:28,640 --> 01:53:32,399
with billions of transitions, excuse me, billions of numbers within

1738
01:53:32,439 --> 01:53:37,479
the species of billions of stages of transitions and there's

1739
01:53:37,520 --> 01:53:42,239
not anything but a few CGI models and these invented

1740
01:53:42,920 --> 01:53:45,159
interpretations that they give to bones that are found.

1741
01:53:46,720 --> 01:53:50,119
Speaker 4: Yeah, like the tiktolic, like they'll point to that is

1742
01:53:50,159 --> 01:53:53,680
like lizardfish. You know, it's like it's part lizard, part

1743
01:53:53,760 --> 01:53:57,119
fish or whatever they're saying that it is. But if

1744
01:53:57,199 --> 01:54:00,920
you were to look at that to say you found

1745
01:54:00,960 --> 01:54:03,720
it at a rummage sale or something like in a

1746
01:54:03,760 --> 01:54:06,520
cardboard box, it's like, oh, what's this And it's like,

1747
01:54:06,760 --> 01:54:09,079
I don't know, I found it in my backyard. It's

1748
01:54:09,119 --> 01:54:11,000
like some kind of skeleton and it kind of looks

1749
01:54:11,000 --> 01:54:12,399
like fossil if that was kind of cool, so I

1750
01:54:12,600 --> 01:54:15,359
kind of keep it. You have it for five bucks

1751
01:54:15,439 --> 01:54:18,680
or whatever. But it's exact same thing that you see

1752
01:54:19,239 --> 01:54:22,199
presented in museums and stuff like that. But let's say

1753
01:54:23,039 --> 01:54:25,800
outside of that context, you never heard of tiktolic, you

1754
01:54:25,880 --> 01:54:29,079
never heard of evolution. What would you do with that

1755
01:54:29,199 --> 01:54:32,600
set of bones? Would it change your belief your worldview

1756
01:54:32,880 --> 01:54:37,479
just on just the prema facie evidence of those bones, No,

1757
01:54:37,600 --> 01:54:40,479
it absolutely would not. Now, outside of the context of

1758
01:54:40,640 --> 01:54:44,840
modern science, it has absolutely no meaning whatsoever. Yeah, only

1759
01:54:44,920 --> 01:54:46,279
interpretation put on it that.

1760
01:54:46,560 --> 01:54:50,239
Speaker 1: You'd say it's a fish or something similar, or maybe

1761
01:54:50,239 --> 01:54:55,159
somebody dropped a bunch of bones that were fish and animals. Yeah,

1762
01:54:55,399 --> 01:54:57,880
like one hundred years ago, some guy, a hunter, you know,

1763
01:54:57,960 --> 01:55:00,359
like dropped in old bag of bones or some and

1764
01:55:00,359 --> 01:55:03,359
then one hundred years later somebody finds it. It's like

1765
01:55:03,039 --> 01:55:09,199
there's the arm of a squirrel on the yeah, the

1766
01:55:09,239 --> 01:55:13,600
head of a rabbit, and then here's the scales of a.

1767
01:55:13,560 --> 01:55:16,920
Speaker 4: Fish or the like a Kroco squirrel or something with

1768
01:55:17,000 --> 01:55:22,079
a crocodilet on it or something like that. Yeah. Like, well,

1769
01:55:22,680 --> 01:55:25,960
well you have to have an expert come in and

1770
01:55:27,079 --> 01:55:29,079
give you the lowdown on what you're looking at, right,

1771
01:55:29,239 --> 01:55:34,600
so that you it's like the Mormon tablet's gold, you know,

1772
01:55:35,000 --> 01:55:39,920
like you were to find tablets of gold somewhere, you'd

1773
01:55:39,960 --> 01:55:42,520
be like, oh, cool, it's gold, you know, that's that's nice.

1774
01:55:43,039 --> 01:55:46,279
But uh but they're formed into these tablets with this

1775
01:55:46,640 --> 01:55:51,119
interesting writing on them, and uh so at that point

1776
01:55:51,159 --> 01:55:56,039
they not have any significance to you. But let's say

1777
01:55:56,079 --> 01:55:58,560
you go take it to the pawn shop or whatever

1778
01:55:58,600 --> 01:56:00,239
you want to check out and say, what is this man?

1779
01:56:00,800 --> 01:56:02,840
He checks it out and he's like, I don't know.

1780
01:56:02,880 --> 01:56:04,680
It looks like you maybe take this new museum, you

1781
01:56:04,720 --> 01:56:07,479
take it the museum, and so they say, well, maybe

1782
01:56:07,520 --> 01:56:09,680
the Mormons might be interested in this, and the Mormons

1783
01:56:09,680 --> 01:56:13,760
get it, and then that's a very profound significant finding

1784
01:56:13,840 --> 01:56:16,720
to them. But outside of the context of the authority

1785
01:56:16,720 --> 01:56:19,840
of the Mormon Church and their whole mythology and stuff

1786
01:56:19,880 --> 01:56:24,159
that they have already in place, that it would just

1787
01:56:24,239 --> 01:56:28,319
simply be some sort of tablets, right, something a matter

1788
01:56:28,359 --> 01:56:30,880
of gold, someone with writing on it, but it wouldn't

1789
01:56:30,880 --> 01:56:37,039
have any significance. Some undecipherable language that was given to

1790
01:56:37,239 --> 01:56:40,840
Joseph Smith by an angel, and then it would have

1791
01:56:40,880 --> 01:56:43,319
a great deal of significance in that context, but outside

1792
01:56:43,319 --> 01:56:46,399
of that context has real no significance other than maybe

1793
01:56:46,439 --> 01:56:49,000
the idea that it's gold and then you can maybe

1794
01:56:49,119 --> 01:56:50,880
sell it for some money or something like that based

1795
01:56:50,880 --> 01:56:52,359
on the fact that it's gold. But other than that,

1796
01:56:52,439 --> 01:56:56,319
it wouldn't have no significance until the interpretive framework of

1797
01:56:56,479 --> 01:57:01,279
the Mormon ideology is overset on it. Same exact thing

1798
01:57:01,279 --> 01:57:04,960
with these bones, because there's nothing you can take away

1799
01:57:05,000 --> 01:57:07,760
from just looking at those bones that would tell you

1800
01:57:07,800 --> 01:57:11,319
that that's a lizardfish. There's not even doesn't even have

1801
01:57:11,319 --> 01:57:13,840
any legs on it. It's like this like kind of

1802
01:57:14,399 --> 01:57:18,479
stumped sticking out of it, and it's like looks exactly

1803
01:57:18,560 --> 01:57:21,960
like somebody did a comparison between that and a certain

1804
01:57:21,960 --> 01:57:25,560
species of crocodile that's out there, and they put it

1805
01:57:25,600 --> 01:57:28,640
side by side, and it's like, wow, that's virtually identical

1806
01:57:28,720 --> 01:57:32,520
to that thing. But uh so, maybe it's a combination

1807
01:57:32,640 --> 01:57:36,800
of a crocodile skull and a fish like who knows.

1808
01:57:37,039 --> 01:57:39,399
But you have to defer to the experts, right, and

1809
01:57:39,439 --> 01:57:41,000
they have to interpret that for you.

1810
01:57:43,159 --> 01:57:46,600
Speaker 1: Yes, did you see that reminds me of the Grand

1811
01:57:46,640 --> 01:57:50,760
Canyon sized hole that opened up somewhere in Middle America?

1812
01:57:50,800 --> 01:57:51,560
I forget where it.

1813
01:57:51,520 --> 01:57:55,119
Speaker 4: Was, Yeah, up in Utah or why Won'ting or something.

1814
01:57:55,680 --> 01:57:57,960
Speaker 1: And this happened very quickly.

1815
01:57:59,399 --> 01:58:01,600
Speaker 4: Uh huh I talked about that.

1816
01:58:01,880 --> 01:58:07,039
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well that's supposed to take millions of years

1817
01:58:07,039 --> 01:58:09,760
for the Grand Grand Canyon to form. How is this possible?

1818
01:58:11,960 --> 01:58:15,520
Speaker 4: Yeah? How do you have a canyon that has a

1819
01:58:15,560 --> 01:58:21,399
lot of the same characteristics very strikingly so even and

1820
01:58:21,520 --> 01:58:24,359
it form overnight? It's not possible, is it?

1821
01:58:25,720 --> 01:58:31,039
Speaker 1: Say? I'm looking to science or entity, our god, creature

1822
01:58:31,800 --> 01:58:34,479
and it says that the Grand Canyon took seventy million

1823
01:58:34,560 --> 01:58:45,159
years to form. According to Live science dot com, he lope,

1824
01:58:46,640 --> 01:58:49,199
yuh huh, seventy million years.

1825
01:58:49,239 --> 01:58:54,880
Speaker 4: Science says seventy million years at least. Yeah, that's the Oh,

1826
01:58:54,920 --> 01:58:57,560
that's what you're going to be told. And then okay,

1827
01:58:57,600 --> 01:58:59,960
so when you go look at the Grand Canyon, now,

1828
01:59:00,000 --> 01:59:06,760
well that's proof of long vast ages of time. That's

1829
01:59:06,840 --> 01:59:10,439
evidence that you can observe with your own eyes. But

1830
01:59:10,640 --> 01:59:16,760
would you necessarily draw that conclusion outside of the scientific

1831
01:59:16,760 --> 01:59:21,199
priests class telling you that's what it represents now? And

1832
01:59:21,319 --> 01:59:23,880
remember especially if you just came from Wyoming where you

1833
01:59:24,000 --> 01:59:26,119
just saw a hole like that open up in the

1834
01:59:26,119 --> 01:59:28,399
ground like a week prior, you know.

1835
01:59:31,520 --> 01:59:36,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, And other great points too. Stalactites and stalagmites do

1836
01:59:36,560 --> 01:59:39,119
not take millions of years to form. You can look

1837
01:59:39,159 --> 01:59:41,560
at houses that are one hundred years old with old

1838
01:59:41,600 --> 01:59:44,560
basements where they have formed and these are supposed to

1839
01:59:44,560 --> 01:59:45,479
take millions of years.

1840
01:59:47,279 --> 01:59:50,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, and they'll have like a what like a fifteen

1841
01:59:50,399 --> 01:59:56,239
foot stalagmite in the basement, you know from Yeah, and

1842
01:59:56,279 --> 02:00:01,800
then you could find fossils of modern well, there's a

1843
02:00:01,840 --> 02:00:05,920
pretty well known fossil that's of a cowboy boot with

1844
02:00:05,960 --> 02:00:09,640
a foot still in it and it's completely fossilized.

1845
02:00:09,720 --> 02:00:12,640
Speaker 1: And then uh, dating, we'll say that's a million years old.

1846
02:00:14,359 --> 02:00:16,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, if you were to take like maybe a chunk

1847
02:00:16,640 --> 02:00:18,880
of it and go have it dated and don't tell

1848
02:00:18,920 --> 02:00:20,880
them that it was a cowboy boot, they'd probably come

1849
02:00:20,920 --> 02:00:22,960
back with some astronomical date on it.

1850
02:00:24,039 --> 02:00:24,159
Speaker 2: Uh.

1851
02:00:24,920 --> 02:00:29,079
Speaker 4: There's been all kinds of examples of that where they

1852
02:00:29,159 --> 02:00:32,039
date stuff that can't possibly be that old because it,

1853
02:00:32,239 --> 02:00:35,000
you know, just came from newly formed out of a volcano,

1854
02:00:35,079 --> 02:00:37,079
and they date it it's millions of years old. So

1855
02:00:37,119 --> 02:00:40,720
it's like, Okay, this is brand new rock. You hello,

1856
02:00:40,920 --> 02:00:45,239
how do you get that date? It's like, well, something's

1857
02:00:45,279 --> 02:00:48,520
wrong somewhere, right I look at it that way?

1858
02:00:48,560 --> 02:00:48,840
Speaker 1: I don't.

1859
02:00:49,279 --> 02:00:53,520
Speaker 4: But you know, people are absolutely one hundred percent convinced

1860
02:00:54,479 --> 02:00:57,560
that they can take rocks and bones and stuff like

1861
02:00:57,600 --> 02:00:59,279
that out of the ground and run them through a

1862
02:00:59,319 --> 02:01:01,560
machine and get some kind of a date on them.

1863
02:01:01,640 --> 02:01:04,960
But you can't. I've talked about this where I have

1864
02:01:05,039 --> 02:01:11,239
this sample form from the University of Wisconsin or something,

1865
02:01:12,199 --> 02:01:17,159
and it's your submission form when you submit a sample

1866
02:01:17,239 --> 02:01:21,640
to be dated in their lab. You know, they're they're they're, uh,

1867
02:01:22,319 --> 02:01:25,880
what is that called isometric dating or whatever. They're going

1868
02:01:25,960 --> 02:01:28,920
to look at the rock and they're going to count

1869
02:01:29,159 --> 02:01:33,079
the isotopes and and do all that right with their machines.

1870
02:01:33,159 --> 02:01:36,239
They can do all that right. But at the top

1871
02:01:36,239 --> 02:01:42,600
of the form, they ask you the approximate date of

1872
02:01:41,960 --> 02:01:43,920
the thing that you're submitting.

1873
02:01:46,680 --> 02:01:48,800
Speaker 1: How old? How old is How old is your rock?

1874
02:01:49,319 --> 02:01:52,399
It's thirty million years old. Then you get it back

1875
02:01:52,439 --> 02:01:54,760
it says your rock is thirty million years.

1876
02:01:54,600 --> 02:02:01,159
Speaker 4: Old based on well, how far down was it? Was

1877
02:02:01,199 --> 02:02:05,479
it from the Triassic era, the Cretaceous era, or what

1878
02:02:05,560 --> 02:02:08,640
do you think it was from? Well, I found trilobite

1879
02:02:08,640 --> 02:02:10,319
in it, so it must have been of the pre

1880
02:02:10,399 --> 02:02:14,600
Cambrian era. Yeah, guess what date they'll probably give you,

1881
02:02:14,600 --> 02:02:17,159
you know, yeah, something approximating that.

1882
02:02:17,479 --> 02:02:20,079
Speaker 1: I think you guys have pointed out the Fly Geyser

1883
02:02:20,199 --> 02:02:21,720
as well, which is another great.

1884
02:02:21,520 --> 02:02:29,520
Speaker 4: Example, Yeah, of a geological formation that started forming in

1885
02:02:29,600 --> 02:02:31,439
this what sixties.

1886
02:02:31,279 --> 02:02:34,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, the sixties at where they have Burning Man.

1887
02:02:36,520 --> 02:02:40,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, the same area right there right.

1888
02:02:42,319 --> 02:02:43,960
Speaker 1: Of the people at Burning Man would say they believe

1889
02:02:44,039 --> 02:02:47,439
in the Darwinian evolution. They're standing right next to the

1890
02:02:47,439 --> 02:02:49,479
fly geyser, which took like forty years.

1891
02:02:51,319 --> 02:02:59,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I'm sure like if they didn't

1892
02:02:59,319 --> 02:03:05,560
know any better and somebody was saw that, they would

1893
02:03:05,600 --> 02:03:09,479
just assume, well, that must be you know, many many

1894
02:03:09,560 --> 02:03:12,319
thousands of years old or maybe millions of years old.

1895
02:03:12,600 --> 02:03:17,359
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, And that was I didn't know about the flagyser,

1896
02:03:17,439 --> 02:03:19,359
so I was glad to hear you guys point that out.

1897
02:03:19,520 --> 02:03:21,359
And you were probably the one that pointed out the

1898
02:03:21,640 --> 02:03:24,880
it's the massive crack in earth mysteriously opens a big

1899
02:03:24,920 --> 02:03:31,239
horn mountains and this is Wyoming. So two things to

1900
02:03:31,800 --> 02:03:34,199
check out that were new to me this last year.

1901
02:03:35,840 --> 02:03:39,359
Speaker 4: Yeah. And there's a guy Robert Gentry. Have you heard

1902
02:03:39,399 --> 02:03:39,720
of him?

1903
02:03:40,319 --> 02:03:40,479
Speaker 1: Huh?

1904
02:03:40,880 --> 02:03:45,880
Speaker 4: And so he goes into how you know coal seems

1905
02:03:46,359 --> 02:03:49,199
that's another thing that we're told that takes millions of

1906
02:03:49,279 --> 02:03:54,159
years to form, but he's demonstrated that he can. He

1907
02:03:54,239 --> 02:03:57,560
can make coal in a laboratory, put a heat and

1908
02:03:57,560 --> 02:03:59,239
pressure on it, and he can make it like a

1909
02:03:59,239 --> 02:04:06,960
couple of days. And then he's taken measurements of something

1910
02:04:07,000 --> 02:04:12,279
that something isotope or something that decays within these coal

1911
02:04:12,359 --> 02:04:17,119
seam formations, and he can take a sample of that,

1912
02:04:17,399 --> 02:04:20,560
slice it down the center and you can see these

1913
02:04:20,640 --> 02:04:26,800
like halos that will form. And if you look under

1914
02:04:26,840 --> 02:04:31,800
the microscope at these halos and then they have I mean,

1915
02:04:31,800 --> 02:04:33,960
they know how long it takes for those things to

1916
02:04:34,039 --> 02:04:39,800
form by direct observation that they show signs of being compressed.

1917
02:04:40,800 --> 02:04:45,680
So it said this had to have formed obviously before

1918
02:04:46,520 --> 02:04:53,720
the process that it underwent to get this visible compression

1919
02:04:53,800 --> 02:04:58,199
you know, in these halos. So it's like it's very

1920
02:04:58,239 --> 02:05:03,479
strong evidence that those formations didn't take No way could

1921
02:05:03,520 --> 02:05:06,279
have tooken millions of years to form. There's just absolutely

1922
02:05:06,319 --> 02:05:06,680
no way.

1923
02:05:07,119 --> 02:05:10,279
Speaker 1: Yeah. Another assumption that's made on the part of people

1924
02:05:10,600 --> 02:05:14,199
that have that viewwards corollary the Big Bang and so forth,

1925
02:05:15,000 --> 02:05:18,039
is the idea that things couldn't be created with the

1926
02:05:18,079 --> 02:05:19,920
appearance of age. Right, So.

1927
02:05:21,479 --> 02:05:23,520
Speaker 4: In other words, I mean, what do we even what

1928
02:05:23,560 --> 02:05:26,479
does anybody even mean when they say appearance of age?

1929
02:05:26,520 --> 02:05:32,840
You know, So that's kind of like a arbitrary definition

1930
02:05:33,199 --> 02:05:36,399
and another example of one that gets thrown out there. Yeah,

1931
02:05:37,359 --> 02:05:39,560
you know, like, oh, well, this is this age because

1932
02:05:39,600 --> 02:05:44,720
of this, and they'll invoke radiocarbon dating or something like that,

1933
02:05:45,279 --> 02:05:49,000
but when in fact, there's a lot of different factors

1934
02:05:49,000 --> 02:05:53,279
that you know, can can give you all kinds of well, well,

1935
02:05:53,319 --> 02:05:55,399
like I just mentioned before, well, I mean there's even

1936
02:05:55,399 --> 02:05:57,800
examples where they take a wooly mammoth and then they

1937
02:05:58,239 --> 02:06:01,600
take a sample of this wooly mammoth that was giving

1938
02:06:01,640 --> 02:06:04,600
birth and it was like somehow flash frozen in the ice,

1939
02:06:04,680 --> 02:06:08,119
and they take they took a sample of the of

1940
02:06:08,279 --> 02:06:11,000
the baby wooly mammoth and the mother wooly mammoth, and

1941
02:06:11,039 --> 02:06:14,000
they got like a difference in age of like half

1942
02:06:14,039 --> 02:06:18,279
a million years or something like that. So that's obviously wrong.

1943
02:06:19,199 --> 02:06:20,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1944
02:06:20,640 --> 02:06:24,680
Speaker 1: Another point too is what's often mentioned is the notion

1945
02:06:24,840 --> 02:06:30,079
of complexity, and so the Darwinian theorists will say, look,

1946
02:06:30,399 --> 02:06:35,279
you know, it's obvious that organisms moved from single cells

1947
02:06:35,359 --> 02:06:38,800
to complexity, right, because we see a self split and

1948
02:06:38,840 --> 02:06:42,319
so therefore we can reason back to presume or actually

1949
02:06:42,319 --> 02:06:46,439
dogmatically declare that everything thus split from one single cell

1950
02:06:46,479 --> 02:06:51,399
at some point. Well, no, because first of all, I

1951
02:06:51,439 --> 02:06:54,000
would just from a philosophical standpoint, I would say that

1952
02:06:54,399 --> 02:06:59,600
given the worldview that the Darwinian perspective has, there's no

1953
02:06:59,640 --> 02:07:03,920
such thing is complexity out there in the world. Complexity

1954
02:07:04,039 --> 02:07:08,479
is a is a concept, right, as you've been pointing out,

1955
02:07:08,560 --> 02:07:12,119
is an interpretive framework. So when you're looking at something

1956
02:07:12,119 --> 02:07:16,760
and it has the appearance of complexity in the Darwinian scheme,

1957
02:07:17,039 --> 02:07:21,720
ultimately it's all just atomism anyway, right, So it's just molecules,

1958
02:07:22,319 --> 02:07:26,159
and the idea that it's more quote complex, assume some

1959
02:07:26,199 --> 02:07:30,880
sort of scale or gradation of complex and less complex

1960
02:07:31,000 --> 02:07:35,279
or simplicity that is somehow a priori or inherently obvious.

1961
02:07:35,880 --> 02:07:40,720
And from a philosophical mantage point, that's problematic because in

1962
02:07:40,760 --> 02:07:43,239
that world view and your perspective, you would have no

1963
02:07:43,399 --> 02:07:48,000
reason or way to explain what complexity is because it's

1964
02:07:48,039 --> 02:07:52,600
a conceptual interpretation of some object in the world, and

1965
02:07:53,840 --> 02:07:57,520
you don't have that right. It's also as arbitrary as

1966
02:07:57,560 --> 02:08:01,680
what you're saying with the so called APay of age.

1967
02:08:01,880 --> 02:08:04,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I think a good, a real good example

1968
02:08:04,520 --> 02:08:09,680
that demonstrates that is this concept of convergent evolution. So

1969
02:08:09,720 --> 02:08:15,600
they'll they'll look at a biological feature in an organism

1970
02:08:15,680 --> 02:08:20,399
like bioluminescence and squid, octopus and stuff like that, and

1971
02:08:20,960 --> 02:08:26,079
so they can't concoct any kind of evolutionary relationship that

1972
02:08:26,439 --> 02:08:29,439
were they can point to that being a result of

1973
02:08:29,479 --> 02:08:33,479
some kind of common anist ancestry because it it will

1974
02:08:33,720 --> 02:08:36,720
totally disrupt their current model, you know, so they have

1975
02:08:36,760 --> 02:08:38,560
to reject that. So they have to come up with

1976
02:08:38,560 --> 02:08:45,079
this new theory, which is convergent evolution, meaning that bioluminescence

1977
02:08:45,920 --> 02:08:52,600
evolved separately in those organisms, independently of each other. And they, yeah,

1978
02:08:52,760 --> 02:08:57,159
that's actually a thing. It's a convergent evolution. So with

1979
02:08:57,239 --> 02:09:01,039
that in mind, you come over to do what they're

1980
02:09:01,079 --> 02:09:07,399
talking about with the fusion of chromosome two, and they'll

1981
02:09:07,399 --> 02:09:11,560
point to that as proof that we have common ancestry

1982
02:09:11,600 --> 02:09:15,840
with the chimpanzees because of this fusion site in the chromosome.

1983
02:09:16,960 --> 02:09:20,039
But if you keep in mind that there's the same

1984
02:09:20,119 --> 02:09:25,439
called convergent evolution, so that like this touch is on

1985
02:09:25,720 --> 02:09:32,359
what you just described where there is no real complexity,

1986
02:09:32,399 --> 02:09:34,439
there is no real structure anything, because everything is just

1987
02:09:34,479 --> 02:09:37,720
atomism anyway, right, So that the same holds true with

1988
02:09:37,800 --> 02:09:43,640
these observations, and they can invoke this special ad hoc

1989
02:09:43,720 --> 02:09:52,119
explanation for these repeating patterns, so that it's like they

1990
02:09:52,159 --> 02:09:57,279
want to invoke patterns in the case of chromosome two

1991
02:09:57,720 --> 02:10:00,680
or these er V sites they call them these uh

1992
02:10:02,399 --> 02:10:09,520
idea and uh so pointing the similarities between those sites

1993
02:10:09,640 --> 02:10:12,119
in a chimpanzee and those size and human, which actually

1994
02:10:12,199 --> 02:10:15,319
turns out that those are not what they purport them

1995
02:10:15,319 --> 02:10:17,960
to be anyway. They're not they're not retroviral sites, they're

1996
02:10:17,960 --> 02:10:20,800
not they're not vestigial. They have functions, so they can't

1997
02:10:20,840 --> 02:10:24,159
be that. So their interpretation on that has been proven wrong.

1998
02:10:24,399 --> 02:10:27,439
But anyway, let's say even if it was true, which

1999
02:10:27,479 --> 02:10:29,479
is it isn't true. But even if it was true,

2000
02:10:30,119 --> 02:10:37,760
they're relying upon an observed pattern, right, absolutely, How do

2001
02:10:37,840 --> 02:10:43,359
they now resort to applying significance to an observed pattern

2002
02:10:44,199 --> 02:10:48,560
when in other contexts it perhaps absolutely no significance exactly,

2003
02:10:48,600 --> 02:10:52,279
So patterns can be chalked up to just pure coincidence,

2004
02:10:53,319 --> 02:10:54,720
right in any other context.

2005
02:10:55,000 --> 02:10:58,319
Speaker 1: They are in Darwinism and in any other context. And

2006
02:10:58,760 --> 02:11:02,479
the irony here is that from a philosophical perspective, you

2007
02:11:02,680 --> 02:11:06,560
need the reality of patterns objectively out there in the

2008
02:11:06,600 --> 02:11:11,119
world for human interpretation, period, for the human mind to

2009
02:11:11,159 --> 02:11:14,239
interpret anything in the world. It's all kind of grounded

2010
02:11:14,279 --> 02:11:19,359
on pattern recognition. But the patterns have to also be

2011
02:11:19,560 --> 02:11:21,560
actually out there in the world. They can't just be

2012
02:11:21,680 --> 02:11:24,239
in the mind, right, because if they're just in the mind,

2013
02:11:24,359 --> 02:11:28,399
then we're stuck in our mind and syllipsism. And ironically,

2014
02:11:28,840 --> 02:11:33,039
because Darwinian theorists are generally people into do physics and biology,

2015
02:11:33,039 --> 02:11:35,479
they don't study philosophy. They don't they're not worried with

2016
02:11:35,560 --> 02:11:41,119
consistency because they're always contradicting themselves, which is funny because

2017
02:11:41,119 --> 02:11:43,600
they're always the ones to turn around and talk about

2018
02:11:43,600 --> 02:11:46,520
how they believe in the logic and reason. Well, number one,

2019
02:11:46,640 --> 02:11:52,079
logic is actually also conceptual, it's immaterial. They are rules

2020
02:11:52,520 --> 02:11:57,319
and laws, much like mathematical principles that function not just

2021
02:11:57,399 --> 02:11:59,399
in the mind, but also in the natural world. If

2022
02:11:59,399 --> 02:12:01,520
they didn't funk in the natural world, we couldn't build

2023
02:12:01,520 --> 02:12:06,359
a bridge, right because it's based on mathematical principles. Yet

2024
02:12:06,720 --> 02:12:10,159
at the same time, there is a belief that there's

2025
02:12:10,279 --> 02:12:13,840
no objective principles out there in the world. There are

2026
02:12:13,920 --> 02:12:17,600
just human descriptors for things that are called quote natural laws.

2027
02:12:18,000 --> 02:12:21,520
But those aren't really laws. They're just the way quote

2028
02:12:21,600 --> 02:12:25,079
nature works. It's just what's out there should just happens.

2029
02:12:25,119 --> 02:12:29,119
In other words, right, just yet, we're supposed to believe

2030
02:12:29,159 --> 02:12:33,439
that there is the ability of the human mind to

2031
02:12:33,479 --> 02:12:37,680
go out and interpret the world, to write scientific journals

2032
02:12:37,720 --> 02:12:40,680
to do all kinds of experimentation, which is all based

2033
02:12:40,720 --> 02:12:43,680
on pattern and logic. Right, the scientific method is based

2034
02:12:43,720 --> 02:12:47,840
on patterns and logic. Yet all of that is simultaneously

2035
02:12:48,079 --> 02:12:51,920
in modern science discarded. There's no such thing as a

2036
02:12:52,039 --> 02:12:56,159
mind that has a structure that's interpreting an external world

2037
02:12:56,279 --> 02:13:00,399
with order and structure that's been dispensed with so that

2038
02:13:00,720 --> 02:13:03,840
it's all completely shot itself in the foot philosophically, which

2039
02:13:03,880 --> 02:13:05,920
is why they don't care about philosophy. This is why

2040
02:13:05,960 --> 02:13:08,800
Neil de Grassy Tyson says philosophy is ridiculous and it

2041
02:13:08,920 --> 02:13:11,760
asks a munch of the dumb questions. Actually, it asked

2042
02:13:11,760 --> 02:13:14,159
the questions that Neil de grass Dyson has to avoid.

2043
02:13:16,600 --> 02:13:22,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, because you know, with without that, you know, you

2044
02:13:22,319 --> 02:13:25,680
can uh invoke any kind of crickterra you want for

2045
02:13:26,279 --> 02:13:30,439
your epistemology, which which excludes even having to be consistent.

2046
02:13:31,359 --> 02:13:34,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, we believe in logic and reason. We're Darwins belar

2047
02:13:34,079 --> 02:13:37,000
with logic and reason. Oh what is logic and reason?

2048
02:13:37,119 --> 02:13:39,039
Don't bug me with your philosophy bullshit?

2049
02:13:42,119 --> 02:13:45,159
Speaker 4: Literally, Well, I think it can be summed up too,

2050
02:13:45,359 --> 02:13:47,319
like the whole argument, And I guess this's kind of

2051
02:13:47,359 --> 02:13:52,920
touch goes into the teleological argument, Uh, why would anything

2052
02:13:54,359 --> 02:13:59,439
in the universe have to work? Whatsoever? Why does anything work?

2053
02:13:59,720 --> 02:14:03,119
Speaker 1: Yeah? And by the way, for something working quote work.

2054
02:14:04,560 --> 02:14:09,920
That is also in the Darwinian scheme of necessity, a

2055
02:14:10,199 --> 02:14:15,000
subjective interpretation of phenomena in the world. What you're calling

2056
02:14:15,319 --> 02:14:20,960
working right when you say, oh, the gastro intestinal system

2057
02:14:21,039 --> 02:14:26,319
of the swamp rat, it works because it shits a lot.

2058
02:14:28,640 --> 02:14:33,039
That is merely a phenomena of things happening in the world.

2059
02:14:33,279 --> 02:14:36,560
There's no working or not working. I mean another word,

2060
02:14:36,560 --> 02:14:38,680
you see what I'm saying that there's no reason to

2061
02:14:38,840 --> 02:14:43,600
say that it's working simply because the phenomena are happening.

2062
02:14:44,279 --> 02:14:47,199
For something to work is to assume that you've got

2063
02:14:47,239 --> 02:14:51,079
again some sort of gradation of standard, just like something

2064
02:14:51,119 --> 02:14:54,159
being logical or consistent by which you can judge a

2065
02:14:54,239 --> 02:14:56,840
thing in this case works and a thing in this

2066
02:14:56,920 --> 02:14:59,800
case does not work. So, in other words, you're absolutely right.

2067
02:15:00,119 --> 02:15:04,680
Presumes te lose or purpose. But telos are purpose. According

2068
02:15:04,720 --> 02:15:07,000
to David Hume and everyone after him and all the

2069
02:15:07,039 --> 02:15:10,840
scientistic crowd. Does not work. There's no telos in the world.

2070
02:15:10,960 --> 02:15:14,560
Telos is a human interpretation of facts, and in fact,

2071
02:15:14,600 --> 02:15:17,760
every time you were if you were to say, oh,

2072
02:15:17,760 --> 02:15:20,000
the blind watchmaker, right, this is the one they always

2073
02:15:20,000 --> 02:15:24,680
fall back on. They'll say, David Hume showed us that

2074
02:15:24,840 --> 02:15:29,039
the blind watchmaker argument doesn't work because you're just interpreting

2075
02:15:29,079 --> 02:15:33,039
the phenomena of the world to have a purpose. Uh oh,

2076
02:15:33,439 --> 02:15:38,479
that works against Darwinism too, because you're just interpreting the

2077
02:15:38,640 --> 02:15:41,840
gastrointestinal system of the rat to have a purpose or function.

2078
02:15:42,720 --> 02:15:45,079
Now I think it does, right. But what I'm saying

2079
02:15:45,119 --> 02:15:47,640
is that in any one of these cases there are examples,

2080
02:15:47,680 --> 02:15:51,039
and you could give many anymore. What it shows is

2081
02:15:51,039 --> 02:15:55,079
that they're operating with a philosophy, even if they don't

2082
02:15:55,119 --> 02:15:57,880
want to admit it or know it, that is completely

2083
02:15:57,880 --> 02:16:03,199
contrary to the other subpositions of their philosophy, right, because

2084
02:16:03,199 --> 02:16:10,279
their philosophy is materialism, materialistic process determinism as a result,

2085
02:16:10,960 --> 02:16:15,039
and mind and psyche essentially don't exist. Really, they're illusory

2086
02:16:15,560 --> 02:16:19,359
and it's just shit happening. Yeah, they want to turn

2087
02:16:19,560 --> 02:16:22,720
so it's in other words, ultimate reality is completely irrational.

2088
02:16:23,159 --> 02:16:25,640
But they want to turn around and have all of

2089
02:16:25,680 --> 02:16:29,199
this reason and logic and rationality and meaning and purpose

2090
02:16:29,239 --> 02:16:38,239
and order in their descriptions and scientific methodology.

2091
02:16:35,200 --> 02:16:40,479
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, they they do play both sides of the fence.

2092
02:16:40,559 --> 02:16:47,120
You know, they have these presuppositions that they operate off of.

2093
02:16:48,760 --> 02:16:53,399
And you know this, when somebody will point to something

2094
02:16:54,520 --> 02:16:59,040
observed maybe in childbirths, say a deformity, Well, there is

2095
02:16:59,079 --> 02:17:02,959
no such things as a deformity. That is only some

2096
02:17:03,520 --> 02:17:08,079
realization of some biological process. It totally has no purpose

2097
02:17:08,159 --> 02:17:12,760
or meaning even of what we're familiar with, because all

2098
02:17:12,840 --> 02:17:14,920
of that is totally subjective, right, So there is no

2099
02:17:15,040 --> 02:17:18,120
such thing as a deformity. There is no such thing

2100
02:17:18,200 --> 02:17:22,079
as even a disease or an illness. Yeah, say, all

2101
02:17:22,159 --> 02:17:26,040
those things are part of the biological process and you're

2102
02:17:26,159 --> 02:17:30,000
only putting that human interpretation on those things. There is

2103
02:17:30,040 --> 02:17:33,159
no such thing as a disease. There is no optimal

2104
02:17:33,280 --> 02:17:39,319
way to be or exist, So there is no I

2105
02:17:39,360 --> 02:17:42,920
think we maybe even see that come about. As bizarre

2106
02:17:42,920 --> 02:17:45,120
as that sounds, yeah.

2107
02:17:44,920 --> 02:17:48,000
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be surprised. It's a system that's so modeled

2108
02:17:48,120 --> 02:17:52,159
and nonsensical that it could literally go anywhere to try

2109
02:17:52,200 --> 02:17:57,639
to maintain its viability, because really it just falls back

2110
02:17:57,680 --> 02:18:04,239
on techniques of propaganda and there authoritarianism without any attempting

2111
02:18:04,600 --> 02:18:07,879
you know, coherence or consistency. Yeah, there's plenty of peer

2112
02:18:07,920 --> 02:18:11,440
reviewed papers, but that has absolutely nothing to do with

2113
02:18:11,600 --> 02:18:16,399
being consistent or coherent, or rational or logical or based

2114
02:18:16,399 --> 02:18:20,280
on evidence. You and I know this. Those two things

2115
02:18:20,280 --> 02:18:23,440
are radically different, right. But you know, for most people,

2116
02:18:23,520 --> 02:18:26,079
the equivalent of what it is to be rational and

2117
02:18:26,120 --> 02:18:30,399
coherent and logical equals peer review and what the establishment says,

2118
02:18:31,040 --> 02:18:35,600
and those two things are not the same. So yeah,

2119
02:18:35,840 --> 02:18:39,000
and from a philosophical mantage point, you can break that

2120
02:18:39,079 --> 02:18:42,000
down even further by pointing out the absurdity of every

2121
02:18:42,040 --> 02:18:44,399
time that they try to write a book or make

2122
02:18:44,440 --> 02:18:52,920
a statement. These are the also materialistic determined processes. They're

2123
02:18:52,959 --> 02:18:55,959
not actually learning anything about the world. They're just you know,

2124
02:18:56,000 --> 02:19:00,520
spewings over of chemical reactions. You know, the the books

2125
02:19:00,559 --> 02:19:04,239
that Stephen J. Gould writes are merely the determined processes

2126
02:19:04,319 --> 02:19:08,879
of natural phenomena and they don't have any objective meaning.

2127
02:19:09,959 --> 02:19:13,559
Which is curious because Neil Degrassey Tyson says that the

2128
02:19:13,600 --> 02:19:18,159
philosophical question that's posed to him often about meaning is

2129
02:19:18,319 --> 02:19:20,799
ridiculous and absurd. He thinks that those are waste of

2130
02:19:20,799 --> 02:19:23,680
time questions. Well, they're not a waste of time when

2131
02:19:23,760 --> 02:19:26,159
you tell me, on the one hand that life is

2132
02:19:26,799 --> 02:19:29,959
just a bunch of chemical reactions and meaningless, and then

2133
02:19:29,959 --> 02:19:31,680
you're going to turn around and try to write books

2134
02:19:31,719 --> 02:19:35,360
and do TV shows that purport to give the meaning

2135
02:19:35,360 --> 02:19:36,040
of the universe.

2136
02:19:38,760 --> 02:19:42,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, so they're like playing both sides of the field

2137
02:19:42,799 --> 02:19:53,360
and putting out contradictory philosophically contradictory constantficiens constantly. Yeah and yeah,

2138
02:19:53,399 --> 02:19:56,239
no wonder they don't want to touch on those areas.

2139
02:19:56,280 --> 02:20:00,360
But it's more of this and you'll se see it

2140
02:20:00,680 --> 02:20:03,959
how they argue a point or something like that. It's

2141
02:20:04,040 --> 02:20:09,840
that not not for any reason thought out, uh methodical way.

2142
02:20:09,840 --> 02:20:17,280
It's more of this, uh tell it just stating that, Okay,

2143
02:20:17,440 --> 02:20:21,719
we have the facts and that's a fact. You know

2144
02:20:21,799 --> 02:20:22,639
that we have a fact.

2145
02:20:22,879 --> 02:20:24,319
Speaker 1: Fact, it's just a fact.

2146
02:20:25,079 --> 02:20:27,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just a fact that we have the facts.

2147
02:20:27,440 --> 02:20:31,159
And it's like, well that you told me nothing. I mean,

2148
02:20:31,200 --> 02:20:33,479
that is a fact that you've told me nothing. It

2149
02:20:33,600 --> 02:20:37,159
is like you're you know, but that's you know, if

2150
02:20:37,159 --> 02:20:39,079
you just go around and round with that, you're not

2151
02:20:39,520 --> 02:20:42,440
and not saying anything. So like when you know, you

2152
02:20:42,520 --> 02:20:45,680
get into a discussion with with somebody who's a Darwinist

2153
02:20:45,680 --> 02:20:48,760
and they're one hundred percent convinced that evolution is true

2154
02:20:49,120 --> 02:20:52,760
and it's been observed, and you, you know, you start questioning, Okay,

2155
02:20:52,799 --> 02:20:55,840
what what is in your mind the best evidence or

2156
02:20:55,959 --> 02:20:59,239
you know, evolution happened like they say it happened, and

2157
02:20:59,760 --> 02:21:02,520
so they give you their what they think is the

2158
02:21:02,520 --> 02:21:05,680
best evidence. And then okay, you want to take a

2159
02:21:05,680 --> 02:21:09,000
few steps further. Okay, let's get in the particulars of

2160
02:21:09,479 --> 02:21:13,360
what you say, this meat, what is in other words,

2161
02:21:13,440 --> 02:21:15,760
explain it, give give me flesh it out, and give

2162
02:21:15,799 --> 02:21:20,159
me some uh, some of the some of the mechanics

2163
02:21:20,440 --> 02:21:23,079
of how this actually works. Let's get under the hood.

2164
02:21:23,440 --> 02:21:25,920
It's like, you know, you got to you gotta buddy over. Okay,

2165
02:21:25,959 --> 02:21:28,120
you got a problem with your car. You can sit

2166
02:21:28,159 --> 02:21:30,040
around and talk about it. Well, I don't know, I

2167
02:21:30,079 --> 02:21:32,200
turned the key and nothing happens, and you can sit

2168
02:21:32,280 --> 02:21:34,520
and talk about it all day. Well, let's let's go

2169
02:21:34,600 --> 02:21:36,559
get under the hood and look at it, and let's

2170
02:21:36,559 --> 02:21:39,399
start poking around into there. So when you get into that,

2171
02:21:39,840 --> 02:21:43,600
to that level, you know, metaphorically speaking with a discussion

2172
02:21:43,639 --> 02:21:47,079
with somebody like that, it's like, why are you taking

2173
02:21:47,159 --> 02:21:49,840
me here? This is the this is the arena of

2174
02:21:49,840 --> 02:21:53,360
the experts. It's like it's like, uh, Jason Cavaledo did

2175
02:21:53,360 --> 02:21:56,000
with me. It's like I started pressing him on. Okay,

2176
02:21:56,159 --> 02:21:57,920
he says that he believes this, and he says, in

2177
02:21:58,000 --> 02:22:01,840
this established fact, well, let's get it too. Let's let's go, Jason,

2178
02:22:01,879 --> 02:22:03,479
let's go check it out under the hood, man, let's go.

2179
02:22:04,200 --> 02:22:07,399
Let's go start uh, you know, looking looking down under

2180
02:22:07,440 --> 02:22:09,840
there and start getting getting greasy into the nuts and

2181
02:22:09,879 --> 02:22:12,360
bults of the matter. And it's like, no, why I'm

2182
02:22:12,399 --> 02:22:13,920
not a mechanic, why should I do that?

2183
02:22:14,600 --> 02:22:18,760
Speaker 1: Well? And there's so's there's so many ways to from

2184
02:22:18,760 --> 02:22:21,440
my perspective, to come out this problem. So take that

2185
02:22:21,840 --> 02:22:26,879
situation where he says this is a fact, or like

2186
02:22:27,040 --> 02:22:29,280
you and I've had discussions in the past where where

2187
02:22:29,319 --> 02:22:32,120
you know, they talk about reason or logic and you say,

2188
02:22:32,360 --> 02:22:35,120
what are those things? What is reason? What is logic?

2189
02:22:35,319 --> 02:22:36,040
On your view?

2190
02:22:36,239 --> 02:22:36,639
Speaker 2: All right?

2191
02:22:36,719 --> 02:22:40,559
Speaker 1: So when we talk about a fact, well, the fact

2192
02:22:40,600 --> 02:22:43,799
that what he's doing in that conversation is presuming to

2193
02:22:44,040 --> 02:22:46,959
have learned something at some point in the past which

2194
02:22:47,040 --> 02:22:49,879
was true about the external world and his experience. And

2195
02:22:49,959 --> 02:22:54,360
I guess everybody's external world and this is objectively true

2196
02:22:54,360 --> 02:22:56,680
in his mind, and that he can at a later

2197
02:22:56,799 --> 02:23:02,760
date pull from that capital T truth and reiterate that

2198
02:23:02,879 --> 02:23:05,479
to you as something that was once true in the

2199
02:23:05,520 --> 02:23:09,360
past and still holds to be the case. Now, the

2200
02:23:09,440 --> 02:23:14,239
problem is that in that evolutionary worldview, this is a

2201
02:23:14,360 --> 02:23:18,559
huge leap. There's no reason to believe that something that

2202
02:23:19,000 --> 02:23:22,879
was experienced or interpreted or read in the past is

2203
02:23:23,120 --> 02:23:26,159
subject to it, or excuse me, is no longer subject

2204
02:23:26,200 --> 02:23:32,280
to evolutionary change and still retains some capital T truthiness

2205
02:23:32,440 --> 02:23:35,239
to it. You follow me. In other words, So in

2206
02:23:35,280 --> 02:23:39,040
philosophy this is called in metaphysics or in epistemology, it's

2207
02:23:39,040 --> 02:23:42,239
called the problem of identity. And what it presumes is

2208
02:23:42,239 --> 02:23:46,079
that you can interpret a truth about some object and

2209
02:23:46,120 --> 02:23:54,639
that that truth maintains invariantly it's status over time. But

2210
02:23:54,719 --> 02:24:00,959
the problem is that in that worldview, nothing maintains an immaterial,

2211
02:24:01,040 --> 02:24:06,319
invariant truthfulness over time, because there's no such thing as

2212
02:24:06,319 --> 02:24:11,159
that realm of immaterial conceptual truthfulness over time. That that's

2213
02:24:11,200 --> 02:24:16,440
been canceled out. It doesn't exist. And so to spout

2214
02:24:16,479 --> 02:24:21,040
out of your mouth these platitudes about something being a

2215
02:24:21,079 --> 02:24:24,200
fact right that you learned at sometime in the past

2216
02:24:24,840 --> 02:24:28,600
is pretty laughable given what your world view says at

2217
02:24:28,639 --> 02:24:33,280
the same time about everything being subject to constant flux

2218
02:24:33,319 --> 02:24:36,440
and change. Now, there may be some Darwinian theorists or

2219
02:24:36,440 --> 02:24:40,520
revolutionary theorists who think that they have some reason to

2220
02:24:40,600 --> 02:24:46,719
believe in, you know, truthfulness or conceptual realities or mathematical

2221
02:24:46,799 --> 02:24:49,920
entities or whatever that exists outside the space and time.

2222
02:24:49,959 --> 02:24:51,920
But that's not most of them. Most of them don't

2223
02:24:52,879 --> 02:24:55,559
and they've never even thought about that as an issue

2224
02:24:55,600 --> 02:24:58,479
because that's a question that is in philosophy that they

2225
02:24:58,520 --> 02:25:02,120
think is pointless and outside the realm of empirical science.

2226
02:25:02,159 --> 02:25:05,559
But that's the problem, is that when you have a naive,

2227
02:25:05,639 --> 02:25:10,959
empirical quote science worldview, which they all have, you're begging

2228
02:25:11,000 --> 02:25:14,000
the question when people bring these kinds of issues to you,

2229
02:25:14,040 --> 02:25:15,840
and I think they are important questions, you know. I

2230
02:25:15,840 --> 02:25:18,159
guess it depends on what you think of metaphysics, but

2231
02:25:18,200 --> 02:25:20,159
in my mind those are important questions. You know. I

2232
02:25:20,200 --> 02:25:23,600
want to be able to say that, you know, I'm

2233
02:25:23,639 --> 02:25:28,319
the same jays that exists over time, that I retain

2234
02:25:28,399 --> 02:25:30,840
my identity over time, even though my body might change

2235
02:25:30,840 --> 02:25:33,879
from the time I was a kid in turning into

2236
02:25:33,920 --> 02:25:39,280
this massive, adonous hunk of a man. Nowadays, I'm still

2237
02:25:39,280 --> 02:25:43,159
the same Jay, right, And so you know, this is

2238
02:25:43,159 --> 02:25:46,079
an issue again, the problem of identity over time. But

2239
02:25:46,159 --> 02:25:50,280
this is all just thrown away by the pragmatic Arminian

2240
02:25:50,319 --> 02:25:53,040
types because they don't think it matters but the problem.

2241
02:25:53,040 --> 02:25:55,200
But they're using all these things that make sense and

2242
02:25:55,239 --> 02:25:58,200
a theistic worldview. And that's my point is that it

2243
02:25:58,200 --> 02:26:02,600
makes sense why you know, there's a unchangeable truth in

2244
02:26:02,639 --> 02:26:06,280
my view. It doesn't make sense why anything is quote

2245
02:26:06,360 --> 02:26:08,120
true over time in your worldview.

2246
02:26:09,920 --> 02:26:14,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I know, I see what you're getting out.

2247
02:26:14,239 --> 02:26:17,559
As far as this, well, it's like this whole idea

2248
02:26:17,559 --> 02:26:21,760
of of the concept of an art type, right, like

2249
02:26:21,879 --> 02:26:29,200
where if you have sort of an objective, unchanging standard,

2250
02:26:29,479 --> 02:26:33,559
let's say, of like what a male, an idealized male

2251
02:26:33,840 --> 02:26:37,600
or an idealized female, how would they look? It's like

2252
02:26:37,639 --> 02:26:40,399
maybe our our our imagination we think about like Adam

2253
02:26:40,440 --> 02:26:42,559
and Eve in the garden of Eden, Like what you know,

2254
02:26:43,079 --> 02:26:46,600
do we when when somebody says Adam and even in

2255
02:26:46,680 --> 02:26:49,799
our garden eating? Does the mental image come into your

2256
02:26:49,799 --> 02:26:55,079
mind of you know, the kind of typical American you know,

2257
02:26:55,200 --> 02:26:58,079
in their forties with like the big pot belly and

2258
02:26:58,120 --> 02:27:02,520
the Verico's veins and the double chin. Is that what

2259
02:27:02,600 --> 02:27:04,479
the image that comes to your mind? Or do you

2260
02:27:04,520 --> 02:27:06,440
see something? What do you see when you think of

2261
02:27:06,479 --> 02:27:15,440
Adam and e the first proto parents of all, you know,

2262
02:27:15,479 --> 02:27:20,040
the first human beings? You have a certain conception of that,

2263
02:27:20,159 --> 02:27:26,680
right yeah, sure, yeah, but it's not so. It's it's

2264
02:27:26,840 --> 02:27:33,079
this idealized form that everyone already has in their mind.

2265
02:27:33,280 --> 02:27:36,120
It's something like this or it's referred to as an

2266
02:27:36,239 --> 02:27:40,760
arc type or sure, an idealized form, right but of course,

2267
02:27:40,840 --> 02:27:45,440
like in the Darwinistic worldview, that's such a thing doesn't exist, right,

2268
02:27:45,559 --> 02:27:47,559
but you could prove it exists by doing these thought

2269
02:27:47,600 --> 02:27:50,280
exercises and and think, you know, just thinking things through,

2270
02:27:50,399 --> 02:27:56,399
Like okay, you think of like or you know, back

2271
02:27:56,440 --> 02:28:00,440
to the like domesticated dog, Well, is this a fully

2272
02:28:00,520 --> 02:28:04,000
realized dog or is a wolf more of a fully

2273
02:28:04,120 --> 02:28:08,559
realized you know what? Is it tainted or the scientific

2274
02:28:08,559 --> 02:28:11,399
classification of what that type of animal is? I think

2275
02:28:11,559 --> 02:28:15,920
everybody would agree that it's the wolf. And as opposed

2276
02:28:15,959 --> 02:28:21,959
to like a teacup poodle, you know, tea cup poodle

2277
02:28:22,040 --> 02:28:23,520
is not going to do that great in the woods.

2278
02:28:24,440 --> 02:28:27,600
But the wolf could hold their own and the like

2279
02:28:27,879 --> 02:28:32,079
the with all its instincts intact, with all its uh fur,

2280
02:28:32,440 --> 02:28:34,959
all of its stamina, all of its strength, all its

2281
02:28:35,159 --> 02:28:39,200
muscle tone. It's it's bone, it's bone density, and everything

2282
02:28:39,760 --> 02:28:44,559
is the archetype. It's the ideal. Everything that emanates from

2283
02:28:44,600 --> 02:28:54,920
that in our domestication process is lesser than in those terms,

2284
02:28:54,959 --> 02:28:57,079
then the wolf.

2285
02:28:57,319 --> 02:29:02,239
Speaker 1: Well that's interesting, yeah, so yes, So the archetype is

2286
02:29:02,280 --> 02:29:06,879
similar to the point of forms or eternal truths absolutely,

2287
02:29:07,159 --> 02:29:10,479
And as we've talked about in the past, that's just

2288
02:29:10,520 --> 02:29:13,520
a variation on the same argument that I've made in

2289
02:29:13,680 --> 02:29:17,399
talks we've had, you know, quoting like the mathematicians about

2290
02:29:18,959 --> 02:29:23,360
you know, the principles of say the Mandelbrot set, which

2291
02:29:23,399 --> 02:29:28,079
is not a humanly devised pattern, and it can go

2292
02:29:28,159 --> 02:29:33,399
on infinitely, and it's not found in empirical data in

2293
02:29:33,440 --> 02:29:35,559
the world, right, And so there are all kinds of

2294
02:29:35,680 --> 02:29:42,559
mathematical truths that are not realizable in time space reality,

2295
02:29:42,639 --> 02:29:46,600
that are nevertheless true. And don't we all kind of inherently,

2296
02:29:46,639 --> 02:29:49,879
sort of intuitively feel that one plus one is two, right,

2297
02:29:50,799 --> 02:29:53,559
But the problem is that these are truths and the

2298
02:29:53,600 --> 02:29:59,559
truthfulness of these examples are not things subject to time

2299
02:29:59,600 --> 02:30:02,760
and space change. Now the Darwin has many of them,

2300
02:30:03,159 --> 02:30:06,159
or the philosophers of naturalism and so forth, and materialism,

2301
02:30:06,639 --> 02:30:08,719
they will try to deal with this problem, and they

2302
02:30:08,719 --> 02:30:11,680
will all admit it's a problem, and what they'll generally

2303
02:30:11,719 --> 02:30:14,920
say is that, okay, actually one plus one is not

2304
02:30:15,639 --> 02:30:18,840
equaling too. These are just social constructs. This is the

2305
02:30:18,879 --> 02:30:22,680
most popular explanation for this problem is that humans just

2306
02:30:22,719 --> 02:30:25,639
got together and decided that one plus one is two,

2307
02:30:25,959 --> 02:30:32,120
which is utterly preposterous because one thing and one thing

2308
02:30:32,200 --> 02:30:36,840
equaling two things has absolutely nothing to do with humans

2309
02:30:36,879 --> 02:30:39,879
getting together and just deciding that right from some sort

2310
02:30:39,879 --> 02:30:45,360
of practical social organization or something. Furthermore, there's also no

2311
02:30:45,479 --> 02:30:48,200
evidence of the fact that humans got together and decided

2312
02:30:48,239 --> 02:30:51,200
that one plus one is two. And were you to

2313
02:30:51,239 --> 02:30:54,319
go to any primitive tribe and you know, try to

2314
02:30:54,440 --> 02:30:57,520
cheat somebody, they're going to probably know, right, like I

2315
02:30:57,559 --> 02:31:04,840
gave you a pelt, you owe me a bag of beings, right.

2316
02:31:07,520 --> 02:31:11,000
It's In other words, mathematics is yet another example of

2317
02:31:11,040 --> 02:31:15,000
that archetypal pattern that you're talking about. And it's not

2318
02:31:15,120 --> 02:31:18,879
different from culture to culture. There may be cultures that

2319
02:31:18,920 --> 02:31:22,600
are not aware of you know, mathematics in a maybe

2320
02:31:22,639 --> 02:31:27,360
advanced sense, but there is a basic kind of numerics

2321
02:31:27,399 --> 02:31:31,280
and counting that is ancient. Goes back, right, everybody is

2322
02:31:31,399 --> 02:31:34,959
using in some way, you know, one, two, three, four, five,

2323
02:31:35,120 --> 02:31:39,360
and up to ten in primitive societies and so forth.

2324
02:31:39,440 --> 02:31:42,760
So that shows you that also that you know, there's

2325
02:31:42,799 --> 02:31:48,440
empirical evidence for it, but there's also immaterial opriori evidence

2326
02:31:48,559 --> 02:31:51,000
for it, by the matter of fact that it's it's

2327
02:31:51,440 --> 02:31:54,200
self evident to anyone that one plus one is two,

2328
02:31:54,399 --> 02:31:56,600
and that is not a truth that is subject to

2329
02:31:56,680 --> 02:32:00,920
evolutionary change. If the whole world decided tomorrow that one

2330
02:32:00,920 --> 02:32:04,959
plus one is three, it would not suddenly make bridges

2331
02:32:05,079 --> 02:32:08,760
operate on a different principle of physics. And everybody knows

2332
02:32:08,799 --> 02:32:13,680
this right, right, right, But in the Darwinian theory, for

2333
02:32:13,840 --> 02:32:17,319
most of them at least, they would have to say that, yeah, okay, Well,

2334
02:32:17,319 --> 02:32:20,200
if everybody just decided that one plus one is three,

2335
02:32:20,799 --> 02:32:23,440
then you know, that's just the evolutionary progress of man,

2336
02:32:23,479 --> 02:32:26,639
and things change, and you know, societies make up different things,

2337
02:32:26,639 --> 02:32:28,079
and you know it just changes. Man.

2338
02:32:30,319 --> 02:32:36,680
Speaker 4: Well, you like the work too, well anymore, No, it

2339
02:32:36,680 --> 02:32:37,600
wouldn't work at all.

2340
02:32:37,760 --> 02:32:46,520
Speaker 9: It just you know it it Uh, it's not too

2341
02:32:46,559 --> 02:32:50,399
hard to see that there's this disconnect between.

2342
02:32:51,360 --> 02:32:55,399
Speaker 4: What is theorized. Yeah, you know, these belief systems and

2343
02:32:55,479 --> 02:33:00,040
what people actually do believe exactly when they go to

2344
02:33:00,079 --> 02:33:03,159
operate in the real world, they work off of these

2345
02:33:03,200 --> 02:33:08,719
presumptions that aren't in line with their worldview. Like I

2346
02:33:08,760 --> 02:33:13,280
talked about with the example of putting placing significance on

2347
02:33:13,440 --> 02:33:20,040
patterns in some areas and then other areas. You know,

2348
02:33:20,079 --> 02:33:23,239
they it's it's dismissed as you know, coincidence.

2349
02:33:25,159 --> 02:33:29,040
Speaker 1: It's easy to sit around and talk about philosophize and

2350
02:33:29,079 --> 02:33:31,959
write your books and pretend that you're an intellectual and

2351
02:33:32,040 --> 02:33:34,680
say that man has no mind, has my soul, has

2352
02:33:34,680 --> 02:33:39,200
no consciousness, world just matter. Yet then when someone comes in,

2353
02:33:39,479 --> 02:33:42,239
you know, murders Richard Dawkins's wife, he's probably going to

2354
02:33:42,280 --> 02:33:45,440
be mad about it. But there's not really any reason

2355
02:33:45,639 --> 02:33:50,840
to be had. I mean, it's just no atoms bumping

2356
02:33:50,840 --> 02:33:55,440
into other atoms. So your anger at that action is

2357
02:33:57,079 --> 02:34:01,959
merely just a human social constructed the response mechanism. It

2358
02:34:02,079 --> 02:34:05,879
really has nothing to do with, you know, anything objectively evil.

2359
02:34:06,280 --> 02:34:10,959
Speaker 4: Right, Well, according to them, yeah, so there, What what

2360
02:34:11,000 --> 02:34:12,639
are you getting uptied about?

2361
02:34:13,040 --> 02:34:14,760
Speaker 1: You know, why why? Why go to a funeral?

2362
02:34:15,840 --> 02:34:16,280
Speaker 2: Why? Why?

2363
02:34:16,319 --> 02:34:16,879
Speaker 1: Why?

2364
02:34:16,920 --> 02:34:18,440
Speaker 4: Indeed yeah,