WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:02.640 On this episode, we're going to do something a little 2 00:00:02.640 --> 00:00:07.240 bit different. I wanted Sean to join me to kind 3 00:00:07.240 --> 00:00:12.679 of go over the argument for bigfoot. Recently on the interwebs, 4 00:00:12.720 --> 00:00:15.759 I ran across someone posing the question is there any 5 00:00:15.800 --> 00:00:19.839 evidence of Bigfoot existing other than large footprints? I thought, Hey, 6 00:00:20.039 --> 00:00:21.120 let's tackle the question. 7 00:00:21.800 --> 00:00:23.920 Well, you know, but it is a fair question to ask, 8 00:00:24.079 --> 00:00:27.800 if we break it down to its core, there's some 9 00:00:27.879 --> 00:01:02.159 meat on that proverbial bone. 10 00:01:03.560 --> 00:01:07.200 This is Bigfoot Crossroads. My name is Matt and joining 11 00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:11.280 me is mister Sean Forker of the Sasquatch Experience. On 12 00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:14.159 this episode, we're gonna do something a little bit different. 13 00:01:15.079 --> 00:01:18.480 I wanted Sean to join me to kind of go 14 00:01:18.680 --> 00:01:23.840 over the argument for bigfoot. Recently on the interwebs, I 15 00:01:23.920 --> 00:01:27.280 ran across someone posing the question is there any evidence 16 00:01:27.319 --> 00:01:31.000 of Bigfoot existing other than large footprints? Now you'll notice 17 00:01:31.040 --> 00:01:32.680 I had a little tone in my voice whenever I 18 00:01:32.719 --> 00:01:35.400 said that, Sean, And that's because I know you can't 19 00:01:35.439 --> 00:01:39.400 always interpret tone and inflection over the Internet and a 20 00:01:39.560 --> 00:01:43.879 text posting. But this came across as one of those 21 00:01:43.959 --> 00:01:47.920 questions of like, is Bigfoot even real? So you know, 22 00:01:48.239 --> 00:01:50.319 I thought, hey, let's tackle the question. 23 00:01:51.000 --> 00:01:53.000 You got to read it in that voice, you know, 24 00:01:53.159 --> 00:01:56.519 that voice things just as you read it as how 25 00:01:56.560 --> 00:02:00.879 I heard it in my head. That kind of pedantic. 26 00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:07.640 I don't know what's the word I'm looking for, seriously 27 00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:09.560 unserious way of asking a question. 28 00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:12.039 Yeah, kind of a backhanded comment. 29 00:02:13.120 --> 00:02:18.360 Yeah, that's the backhanded compliment, like, yeah, it is it is? 30 00:02:18.360 --> 00:02:19.199 Is bigfoot real? 31 00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:20.039 Yeah? 32 00:02:20.479 --> 00:02:23.639 Besides footprints? Well, you know, but it is a fair 33 00:02:23.719 --> 00:02:27.599 question to ask if we break it down to its core, 34 00:02:27.919 --> 00:02:31.280 there's some meat on that proverbial bone, for sure. 35 00:02:31.360 --> 00:02:34.039 And I mean, whenever we're talking about bigfoot a lot 36 00:02:34.080 --> 00:02:38.800 of times we use the word skeptic. Now, skeptic to 37 00:02:38.960 --> 00:02:43.879 me isn't necessarily a negative thing. It's how you should 38 00:02:43.879 --> 00:02:48.639 approach most subjects, especially of this nature. But in the 39 00:02:48.680 --> 00:02:53.960 bigfoot world, skeptic has also kind of become the title 40 00:02:54.280 --> 00:02:58.039 to a person who is just extremely condescending, shoots down 41 00:02:58.080 --> 00:03:01.479 all evidence, and just doesn't think bigfoot exists. They think 42 00:03:01.520 --> 00:03:03.919 that everyone who says they saw a bigfoot is either 43 00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:09.800 lying or mistaken the jaded one. Yeah, and uh, being 44 00:03:09.840 --> 00:03:14.120 a bigfoot witness myself and also coming from the researcher 45 00:03:14.199 --> 00:03:19.319 slash investigator background, I understand it, but it still stings 46 00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:21.879 a little. Man, It still stings a little. So whenever 47 00:03:21.919 --> 00:03:25.199 I see someone ask the question, is there any evidence 48 00:03:25.199 --> 00:03:28.000 of Bigfoot existing other than just these large footprints that 49 00:03:28.039 --> 00:03:31.800 we find, it's like a call to action for me, Man, 50 00:03:31.879 --> 00:03:33.719 I want to I want to stand up for Bigfoot 51 00:03:33.840 --> 00:03:37.360 and uh, let the people know what the evidence actually 52 00:03:37.439 --> 00:03:38.000 is out there. 53 00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:42.319 It's the second most annoying question for me. The first 54 00:03:42.439 --> 00:03:45.840 most annoying question is is there more than one? 55 00:03:46.639 --> 00:03:47.759 Oh? Yeah, yeah? 56 00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:50.439 Hell do you think yes, there's more than one? What 57 00:03:50.599 --> 00:03:52.520 kind of a moron even asked that question? 58 00:03:53.039 --> 00:03:57.240 Calling myself a bigfoot researcher. You know, I'm no longer 59 00:03:57.280 --> 00:03:59.680 a field investigator. You still go out and you know, 60 00:03:59.759 --> 00:04:02.800 look for physical evidence and everything. You're still very active 61 00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:08.479 as an investigator. But let's be honest here, It's not 62 00:04:08.719 --> 00:04:11.919 something that has any requirements to be one other than 63 00:04:11.960 --> 00:04:14.439 just the act of going and doing it, calling yourself 64 00:04:14.439 --> 00:04:15.240 one so to speak. 65 00:04:16.040 --> 00:04:19.639 Right, there's no there's no degree you can get in 66 00:04:19.720 --> 00:04:23.600 bigfoottology cryptozoology. You can get one on the internet. Of course, 67 00:04:23.639 --> 00:04:25.680 there's those pretend classes you can take that make you 68 00:04:25.720 --> 00:04:27.920 feel special, But at the end of the day, there's 69 00:04:27.959 --> 00:04:30.879 no serious credentials you can get that allow you to 70 00:04:30.920 --> 00:04:34.319 call yourself an investigator or research. I think, as with 71 00:04:34.399 --> 00:04:37.360 all things, it's about the level of practice you put 72 00:04:37.399 --> 00:04:40.560 into it, right, and the amount of time you spend. 73 00:04:40.600 --> 00:04:42.360 Of course, people say if you spend longer the next 74 00:04:42.360 --> 00:04:44.800 amount of years, you're considered an expert. We all know 75 00:04:44.879 --> 00:04:47.600 that's the third rail of bigfooting. Nobody ever calls themselves 76 00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:50.879 an expert. But you can be an expert in subjects 77 00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:54.800 that allow you to enhance kind of your cv of 78 00:04:54.839 --> 00:04:59.079 bigfoot research, like anybody that's in law enforcement or has 79 00:04:59.199 --> 00:05:03.560 particular setup skills for forensics or evidence collection. That all 80 00:05:03.639 --> 00:05:07.160 builds to a good resume, but at the end of 81 00:05:07.199 --> 00:05:11.639 the day allows you to be an expert in a 82 00:05:11.759 --> 00:05:14.600 part of the mystery, not the overall arching mystery. Like 83 00:05:14.680 --> 00:05:19.199 doctor Melgin, right, he's got a PhD in anatomy and physiology, right, 84 00:05:19.319 --> 00:05:22.240 But at the at the end of it, it's not 85 00:05:22.360 --> 00:05:27.519 in bigfoot, right, because there's still no real type specimen 86 00:05:28.199 --> 00:05:31.920 to base that off of. It's all still I don't 87 00:05:31.959 --> 00:05:34.240 want to call it a pseudoscience, but it is a 88 00:05:35.480 --> 00:05:39.759 It's a form of citizen scientry that I think we're 89 00:05:39.800 --> 00:05:42.319 all trying to establish a something a little bit more. 90 00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:49.160 Then it definitely overlaps into you know, credible scientific areas 91 00:05:49.240 --> 00:05:52.839 of study. And that's why I think it draws the 92 00:05:52.879 --> 00:05:56.079 interest of some scientists every once in a while. But 93 00:05:56.399 --> 00:05:58.759 i mean, let's face it, whenever you're talking about just 94 00:05:59.120 --> 00:06:03.639 bigfoot in general. If you know Joe Blow is interested 95 00:06:03.639 --> 00:06:06.079 in the subject or saw something on TV about it, 96 00:06:06.279 --> 00:06:08.279 they're going to run to the Internet and you know, 97 00:06:08.319 --> 00:06:11.000 they're going to look up bigfoot or whatever, and that's 98 00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:13.800 going to lead them down the rabbit hole, so to speak. 99 00:06:13.839 --> 00:06:17.639 And eventually they're going to find the Bigfoot community. And 100 00:06:18.399 --> 00:06:21.040 as soon as you start asking questions and stuff, I mean, 101 00:06:22.279 --> 00:06:25.680 you don't get a lot of people just running across 102 00:06:25.720 --> 00:06:30.240 the path of doctor Jeff Meldrum. You get anybody and 103 00:06:30.319 --> 00:06:34.639 everybody answering with whatever they think, whatever they've heard, and 104 00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:37.560 so a lot of the evidence, in my opinion, the 105 00:06:37.600 --> 00:06:41.800 good stuff may have been buried over the years, you know, 106 00:06:42.040 --> 00:06:46.160 just underneath the pile of crabs in the bucket. 107 00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:51.600 To your point, folks run into the lowest common denominator 108 00:06:51.639 --> 00:06:55.920 and the most popular version of researcher that's out there 109 00:06:55.959 --> 00:06:58.560 on the internet. Whose Facebook page has a few thousand 110 00:06:58.600 --> 00:07:01.439 followers of people. Oh my god, they're hot stuff. They 111 00:07:01.480 --> 00:07:07.160 got all these followers. Yeah, there were followers at Jonestown too. 112 00:07:09.759 --> 00:07:11.759 Yeah. Unfortunately that's the truth. 113 00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:15.040 Yeah, right, you know, don't base upon that. I think 114 00:07:17.319 --> 00:07:21.319 this is one of those hard areas that there's information 115 00:07:21.439 --> 00:07:24.600 out there, but it's not all good information. And there 116 00:07:24.600 --> 00:07:28.000 are people out there that are far more personality than 117 00:07:28.040 --> 00:07:32.399 they are brain and that's dangerous too. There's no real 118 00:07:32.519 --> 00:07:34.959 vetting and there's no real peer reviewing, and there's no 119 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:38.639 real science behind things that they will tell you are 120 00:07:38.720 --> 00:07:42.560 the absolute truth. That's where I get That's where I 121 00:07:42.639 --> 00:07:47.759 get alarmed, Matt, is when you start hearing folks talk 122 00:07:47.759 --> 00:07:50.959 about these things as absoluteses. At the end of the day, 123 00:07:51.000 --> 00:07:55.680 boys and girls, guess what, no bigfoot body, No bigfoot 124 00:07:55.720 --> 00:07:56.199 for real? 125 00:07:56.480 --> 00:08:02.480 Right. A lot of my friends, you know, you're included 126 00:08:02.519 --> 00:08:05.000 in my group of friends for sure, but you're not 127 00:08:05.079 --> 00:08:08.959 necessarily like this. You and I speak absolutely candidly to 128 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:13.519 one another in private, right, But you know, sometimes I 129 00:08:13.639 --> 00:08:16.040 have to vent a little bit on social media or whatever, 130 00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:19.720 and I'll say something and I'll leave names out, or 131 00:08:19.759 --> 00:08:21.959 I'll talk about something on the show, and I'll leave 132 00:08:22.040 --> 00:08:25.439 names out because I'm not trying to go after the 133 00:08:25.480 --> 00:08:30.279 person in particular as much as just whatever they might 134 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:32.840 be doing or the evidence that they're putting out. But 135 00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:36.360 I can tell you right now, matter of factly, that 136 00:08:36.399 --> 00:08:40.639 there are people out there who are well known and 137 00:08:40.679 --> 00:08:45.279 well established in the bigfoot research community, not just the 138 00:08:45.279 --> 00:08:50.000 bigfoot content creation community, that are just putting out absolute 139 00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:53.919 garbage just to get followers, just to get popular, just 140 00:08:53.960 --> 00:08:57.799 to get asked to speak at conferences. And I mean, 141 00:08:57.840 --> 00:09:01.879 I've seen one individual that I don't know him personally, 142 00:09:02.639 --> 00:09:06.000 I know that he is extremely well respected and well 143 00:09:06.159 --> 00:09:09.000 liked in the bigfoot world. And I saw part of 144 00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:11.720 his presentation that he was giving that a conference where 145 00:09:11.720 --> 00:09:15.320 he's putting up these exclusive images you know, from a 146 00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:18.720 trail camera that he's you know, received from a person, 147 00:09:18.879 --> 00:09:23.080 you know, an anonymous tip or whatever. That's nobody's ever 148 00:09:23.120 --> 00:09:27.519 seen these photographs before. This is an exclusive And I'm 149 00:09:27.559 --> 00:09:29.840 looking at it and I'm just like, yeah, that's the first 150 00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:33.639 result in a Google image search for bigfoot costume. I mean, 151 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:37.679 easily recognizable. And there's no way that this guy doesn't 152 00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:38.039 know that. 153 00:09:38.879 --> 00:09:40.519 No, And how many times have we been down that 154 00:09:40.600 --> 00:09:42.399 road over the years. You and I have the benefit 155 00:09:42.559 --> 00:09:47.759 of long term history, right over twenty years of this 156 00:09:47.840 --> 00:09:53.240 stuff coming and going. Does that make us an authority? No, 157 00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:57.759 it makes us educated on the topic and allows us 158 00:09:57.799 --> 00:10:00.879 to go back and draw on those because every time 159 00:10:00.919 --> 00:10:03.080 a new picture comes up, I could look at I 160 00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:07.879 could message it say, Matt, where have we seen this before? Yeah, 161 00:10:07.919 --> 00:10:10.559 we've seen this before. There is very little out there 162 00:10:11.320 --> 00:10:14.720 that hasn't been recycled in some way, shape or form. 163 00:10:15.440 --> 00:10:18.720 And the problem is it's never very good. But you 164 00:10:18.759 --> 00:10:21.559 get people that hold on to that hope that makes 165 00:10:21.559 --> 00:10:23.639 it viral again. It blows it up, and then we 166 00:10:23.679 --> 00:10:25.440 have to deal with the same crap we dealt with 167 00:10:25.480 --> 00:10:29.360 fifteen twenty years ago, over the same photograph that nobody 168 00:10:29.399 --> 00:10:30.919 wants to go and do any research on. 169 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:35.840 Well, people will believe the story and they'll just automatically 170 00:10:35.919 --> 00:10:42.320 assume that certain things mean certain things. And what I mean. 171 00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:46.519 There's a group of photos in particular, these photos were 172 00:10:46.759 --> 00:10:52.519 manufactured by an artist who was doing sort of a 173 00:10:52.639 --> 00:10:57.200 viral gorilla marketing campaign for an upcoming gallery exhibit that 174 00:10:57.240 --> 00:11:01.360 he was putting on in Seattle, I think where he 175 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:04.519 created all these bigfoot it was the Beacon Bigfoot Beacon, 176 00:11:04.559 --> 00:11:09.240 New York had a website and everything, multiple clear photos 177 00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:14.759 of Bigfoot. Now he had taken mannekins and used palmer 178 00:11:14.799 --> 00:11:16.960 clays to kind of sculpt them out and put hair 179 00:11:17.039 --> 00:11:21.840 on them and make them look somewhat lifelike. But he's 180 00:11:21.879 --> 00:11:25.320 been very transparent about this, and you could see the 181 00:11:25.399 --> 00:11:29.519 same exact figures in the art gallery, so it wasn't 182 00:11:29.559 --> 00:11:33.519 like hidden or anything. But people from the Bigfoot world, 183 00:11:33.720 --> 00:11:38.120 for whatever reason, have grabbed some of these images and 184 00:11:38.159 --> 00:11:40.600 put them on the Internet and attach stories to them, 185 00:11:41.159 --> 00:11:44.120 or not attached stories to them, just presented them as 186 00:11:44.200 --> 00:11:46.840 like we don't know where they came from. And you 187 00:11:46.879 --> 00:11:50.440 see these photos pop up every year, multiple times, and 188 00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:53.639 it's been going on for like ten years now. One 189 00:11:53.679 --> 00:11:57.399 in particular is a small juvenile only about three feet 190 00:11:57.440 --> 00:11:59.759 tall in it, and in the photo it's standing close 191 00:11:59.799 --> 00:12:04.159 to deer that are looking at it. Well, deer wouldn't 192 00:12:04.200 --> 00:12:06.240 be standing that close to a human shawn, so it 193 00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:09.320 must be real, and that's what people think. They don't 194 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:12.600 understand that, well, deer will stand close to humans if 195 00:12:12.600 --> 00:12:14.720 they're being fed by humans. Deer will stand close to 196 00:12:14.759 --> 00:12:17.120 a mannequin sitting out in the woods that has corner 197 00:12:17.159 --> 00:12:20.440 at its feet. This doesn't necessarily make it real. 198 00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:23.759 If there's no perceived threat, it's not going to run, right. 199 00:12:24.159 --> 00:12:27.879 And if you try to explain the background, I mean, 200 00:12:27.960 --> 00:12:30.000 how often should you have to do that? Is it 201 00:12:30.080 --> 00:12:33.519 your job every time you see these photos to go 202 00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:35.879 in depth and like find all the links and do 203 00:12:35.960 --> 00:12:38.279 all their No, nobody wants to go through all that, 204 00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:42.080 and so like maybe every now and then I'll just 205 00:12:42.159 --> 00:12:45.399 see it enough that I'll actually stop and leave a 206 00:12:45.399 --> 00:12:48.799 comment saying, hey, this is a fake. Well, then I 207 00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:53.120 get questioned, prove it, prove that it's fake, And that's 208 00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:54.360 that's just ridiculous. 209 00:12:56.320 --> 00:12:58.840 Why is it always on the burden of the person 210 00:12:59.000 --> 00:13:01.840 saying it's a fake, Like, there's obviously a reason for 211 00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:05.080 you to say it's fake. I believe it's fake because 212 00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:08.480 of this. Okay, I'm not the one saying it's real. 213 00:13:08.679 --> 00:13:11.360 I can clearly tell you that's fake because I see 214 00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:14.720 a mask, I see baggy arms. You could have some 215 00:13:14.879 --> 00:13:18.480 of the absolute worst costumes out there posed in a 216 00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:21.320 provocative way in the woods that would make people think 217 00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:24.320 it's a sasquatch. I don't mean provocative like playgirl I mean, 218 00:13:24.799 --> 00:13:28.799 or playboy I mean provocative, as in, like you know, 219 00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:32.320 the Patterson pose or what have you. And people will 220 00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:37.000 believe it's it's a bigfoot, and it could be the 221 00:13:37.080 --> 00:13:40.200 absolute worst image ever, but people will fight you truth 222 00:13:40.200 --> 00:13:43.200 and nail tooth and nail. I can't talk to me 223 00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:47.279 that it is in fact a real Bigfoot. Knowingly one 224 00:13:47.320 --> 00:13:50.519 hundred percent it's not. And that's where we've come to, 225 00:13:50.679 --> 00:13:55.639 that lack of being able to really discern what's fake 226 00:13:56.440 --> 00:14:00.639 and what's reality. And the problem is that's entering its 227 00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:03.240 way into many different realms of our lives now, not 228 00:14:03.320 --> 00:14:07.320 just Bigfoot, but it's very hard. It's like, all of 229 00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:12.759 a sudden, we have a whole I don't want to 230 00:14:12.759 --> 00:14:15.399 say generation, but a whole mass of people that lost 231 00:14:15.399 --> 00:14:16.919 the ability to critically. 232 00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:20.320 Think, or they're just too lazy to do so they 233 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:23.080 want somebody else to do it for them, and they've 234 00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:26.960 picked a person or a group of persons to get 235 00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:31.000 their information from, and they just believe whatever that person 236 00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:31.600 happens to. 237 00:14:31.559 --> 00:14:35.159 Say, right. And I get a little salty over it 238 00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:38.919 because I hate one I hate repeating myself. So when 239 00:14:38.960 --> 00:14:42.399 I have to go and start bringing up topics and 240 00:14:42.440 --> 00:14:45.240 rehashing topics we've talked about twenty years ago. I get 241 00:14:45.279 --> 00:14:48.240 really frustrated. It was not long ago. I was lying 242 00:14:48.279 --> 00:14:49.919 in bed, It's like two o'clock in the morning, and 243 00:14:49.960 --> 00:14:54.200 my phone's digging off with some person I've never met 244 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:57.399 before messaging me because they've listened to the podcast, wanting 245 00:14:57.480 --> 00:14:59.679 to know what I think about this. And my response 246 00:14:59.720 --> 00:15:02.279 to was kind of rude. It was, read a damn book. 247 00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:04.240 Yeah, do the work. 248 00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:07.120 You know, all the stuff you're asking me about, is 249 00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:09.240 it in all the literature that it's been written on 250 00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:11.320 this subject. Go read a damn book and leave me 251 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:14.039 alone and don't talk to me again until you've read it. 252 00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:18.960 Like it's now hard. You come to us wanting information, 253 00:15:19.039 --> 00:15:21.720 when we tell you where to get it, go do it. 254 00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:26.720 It's that simple. We had to exactly. John Green wasn't 255 00:15:26.759 --> 00:15:27.960 narrating his books for. 256 00:15:27.919 --> 00:15:32.240 Us, No, not at all. And John Green wasn't going 257 00:15:32.279 --> 00:15:35.799 on the Internet and just copying and pasting stories to 258 00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:37.000 his database either. 259 00:15:38.039 --> 00:15:39.840 Right, right, right, And that's the other problem is like 260 00:15:39.879 --> 00:15:43.639 there's a lot of a problem that I've seen, is 261 00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:48.120 that just taking a story for what it is and 262 00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:50.480 posting it out there, and if you're somebody that's looking 263 00:15:50.519 --> 00:15:54.039 for real data. And yes, I know I say that 264 00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:56.440 tongue in cheek because all of it has the potential 265 00:15:56.480 --> 00:15:59.000 to be bs right. But if you're looking at it 266 00:15:59.039 --> 00:16:03.960 to form real pools, you're purposefully contaminating that now, and 267 00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:07.360 you're making it far less of a resource and far 268 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:12.480 less of a reliable situation to gather information from. 269 00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:16.919 Well, let's get things kicked off with this list of 270 00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:22.080 evidence that I have provided other than large footprints. And 271 00:16:22.159 --> 00:16:24.000 at the top of that list, I just wanted to 272 00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:26.840 go ahead and get it over with. And it was 273 00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:31.159 actually something that I ran across again today. You always 274 00:16:31.240 --> 00:16:36.679 run across it. The Patterson Gimlin film nineteen sixty seven, 275 00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:39.279 fifty seven years old. 276 00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:41.159 We're never going to. 277 00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:42.679 Know, are we We're never going to know. 278 00:16:44.679 --> 00:16:46.720 Think of all the studies that have been done on 279 00:16:46.759 --> 00:16:51.279 it and all the recreations that have been attempted. And 280 00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:53.679 it wasn't even until recent but we actually found the 281 00:16:53.720 --> 00:16:58.279 actual film site, right, So like not you and I 282 00:16:58.360 --> 00:17:00.879 found it, but folks found it, you know, the Creek Project. 283 00:17:01.519 --> 00:17:06.960 I just think that. And honestly, here's another conversation we 284 00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:10.799 had almost twenty years ago. Does it matter anymore. I 285 00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:13.960 don't base my belief on Bigfoot or my foundation of 286 00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:17.039 Bigfoot evidence on the Patterson film at all. I think 287 00:17:17.079 --> 00:17:20.880 it's a great piece of a film to have and 288 00:17:20.960 --> 00:17:23.960 a good part of the lore of Bigfoot, but it 289 00:17:24.079 --> 00:17:29.200 shows nothing that is tangible today. That video, I don't 290 00:17:29.240 --> 00:17:32.920 think convinces anybody anymore of anything besides what people want 291 00:17:32.920 --> 00:17:35.400 to think on both sides of the aisle. You either 292 00:17:35.400 --> 00:17:36.920 look at it and see it's a hoax, or you 293 00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:38.519 look at it and you think it's the real deal. 294 00:17:38.839 --> 00:17:41.799 But there's nothing we can do to show you either way. 295 00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:45.720 Here's why I have it listed as a piece of evidence, 296 00:17:46.680 --> 00:17:51.200 simply because we're now approaching sixty years and it's still 297 00:17:51.240 --> 00:17:56.400 being debated. It has never been proven one way or 298 00:17:56.400 --> 00:17:56.720 the other. 299 00:17:57.559 --> 00:18:01.480 It's never been debumped, right, And I think that's the 300 00:18:01.720 --> 00:18:05.680 talent it is that it's not been debunked, right, like 301 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:08.720 none of the recreations have been good enough. The issue 302 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:12.000 I have with it as being evidence is that evidence 303 00:18:12.039 --> 00:18:14.519 is usually in the support of something, and this doesn't 304 00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:20.359 really support anything, Like to me, definitively, you can't look 305 00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:22.119 at it and say one hundred percent that's an ape 306 00:18:22.599 --> 00:18:24.640 or that's a Bigfoot or one hundred percent that's a hoax. 307 00:18:24.680 --> 00:18:27.000 That's the problem I have with it being evidence. I 308 00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:30.400 think it's a support structure. I just don't think to me, 309 00:18:30.519 --> 00:18:32.000 it's good enough to call evidence. 310 00:18:32.599 --> 00:18:37.319 Okay, but look at it from this perspective. We weren't 311 00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:42.720 around when it happened. Nope, neither was the internet, in fairness, 312 00:18:42.799 --> 00:18:47.880 But there were people that were communicating that were investigating Bigfoot. 313 00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:49.680 I mean that was how it got filmed. They were 314 00:18:49.759 --> 00:18:53.400 going out trying to film a documentary on Bigfoot, and 315 00:18:54.559 --> 00:19:00.599 there were people like Bob Titmas. I never knew the guy, obviously, 316 00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:04.200 but according to everything I was told by other people 317 00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:07.759 who did know him, he was a good tracker. He 318 00:19:08.079 --> 00:19:11.400 knew what he was doing, and he tracked the patison 319 00:19:11.480 --> 00:19:15.000 creature from the film site into areas where it was 320 00:19:15.079 --> 00:19:19.119 not filmed, followed the tracks for quite a ways. So 321 00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:23.079 there are plaster casts from the track site. You know 322 00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:27.160 that they were able to find the actual location. Like 323 00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:29.920 you said, they've done three D scans to line everything 324 00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:32.720 up to figure out the height of Patty, you know, 325 00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:34.559 which is also debated still to. 326 00:19:34.519 --> 00:19:37.519 This day, seven feet six foot three, like you know, 327 00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:40.720 which one is it? But to the point that you're 328 00:19:40.720 --> 00:19:43.519 making though Bob Tipmas followed tracks, but tracks of what 329 00:19:44.680 --> 00:19:48.200 and and that's where we start. You know, sure he 330 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:52.480 did follow tracks, he did track them, but what were they? 331 00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:55.480 And that's where and then you start getting into all 332 00:19:55.519 --> 00:19:57.799 the things you hear over the years, you know, all 333 00:19:57.920 --> 00:20:00.400 the well it was, you know, a put on by 334 00:20:01.039 --> 00:20:04.759 by Roger Patterson and Bob Gimlin, and Bob Gimlin's just 335 00:20:04.839 --> 00:20:07.000 kept it alive over all these years. Although it's a 336 00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:09.440 hell of a long w all of a long lie 337 00:20:09.640 --> 00:20:12.960 time to tell a lie, that's all. And he hasn't 338 00:20:13.000 --> 00:20:14.200 done a lot of slipping. 339 00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:19.079 Up as researchers. Uh, you know that in the in 340 00:20:19.119 --> 00:20:25.359 the research community, sometimes things come out and people may 341 00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:31.480 put on faces and smile publicly, but behind closed doors, 342 00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:34.799 there's a lot of what do you think about that? 343 00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:37.119 You know that that doesn't feel right to me? That 344 00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:40.079 you know, well, he actually said this, and you know, 345 00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:43.160 you get a lot of that quiet information going on. 346 00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:47.480 I wonder what that information was at the time that 347 00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:48.599 this happened. 348 00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:53.920 Right, But as we know, over the years, the relationships 349 00:20:53.920 --> 00:20:58.519 between the four horsemen and the relationships between the researchers 350 00:20:58.519 --> 00:21:00.200 soured that all of a sudden, Now, do you have 351 00:21:00.279 --> 00:21:05.599 some sort of you know, guided bias that's you know, 352 00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:09.240 clouding the clouding the story more, you know what I mean? 353 00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:11.880 Some of these guys just for some reason grew to 354 00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:16.279 hate each other. Does that hatred towards one another? Lend 355 00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:18.960 any kind of Well so and so believes this. I 356 00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:23.119 can't believe it because he does, right, you know. And 357 00:21:23.240 --> 00:21:25.200 as petty as it is, you and I both know 358 00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:29.200 that pettiness was a way of life for some of 359 00:21:29.240 --> 00:21:30.359 these guys. 360 00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:34.200 Well, I told you that I ran across it again 361 00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:40.240 today and what that is is that whole argument. So 362 00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:44.759 Bill Muntz, you know, famous Hollywood effects guy, did the 363 00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:48.559 most in depth research and analysis on the Parison film, 364 00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:52.160 along in coordination with many other people, including Jeff Meldrim, 365 00:21:53.559 --> 00:21:57.000 researching out this film different aspects of it, from the 366 00:21:57.079 --> 00:22:01.279 camera to the possibility of it being a costume, et cetera, 367 00:22:01.359 --> 00:22:07.240 et cetera, and iran across some postings by Bill on 368 00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:12.559 a cinematography forum where he was trying to get technical 369 00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:16.839 information about the camera that was used to film it. 370 00:22:18.200 --> 00:22:22.000 He was not bringing up Bigfoot, He was just asking 371 00:22:22.119 --> 00:22:27.119 questions about the camera to other film experts, and even 372 00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:31.880 there the hate came forth. Here comes you know, one guy, 373 00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:35.039 why are you even talking about this? You're talking about 374 00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:37.599 a bigfoot film that we all know as a hoax. 375 00:22:39.079 --> 00:22:43.359 This is just a hoax, Wasn't it Roger Patterson's friend 376 00:22:43.359 --> 00:22:45.039 in a suit? Didn't he come out and admit that? 377 00:22:45.279 --> 00:22:47.400 And that's what you get whenever you bring up the 378 00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:52.640 Patterson film. Still to this day, it's almost like the 379 00:22:52.759 --> 00:22:55.599 side against the Patterson film, the people that think that 380 00:22:55.680 --> 00:23:01.359 it's a hoax. The argument is so weak and so misguided, Like, sure, yeah, 381 00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:04.279 people have said that they were wearing a costume Bob hoeronymous, 382 00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:07.599 but so have other people throughout history. Since this film 383 00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:09.920 has come out, there's been numerous people claiming they're the 384 00:23:09.920 --> 00:23:12.759 guy in the suit and getting there five minutes of fame. 385 00:23:13.519 --> 00:23:17.440 They can't get the suit right, they can't even describe 386 00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:21.039 the suit they wore right. That's silly. 387 00:23:22.279 --> 00:23:24.160 And a lot of the stories that you hear about 388 00:23:24.200 --> 00:23:28.359 it being a hoax are just internet rumor. It has 389 00:23:28.440 --> 00:23:31.039 no substance to it. There's nothing supporting it being a 390 00:23:31.079 --> 00:23:34.759 hoax other than so and so says so, which is 391 00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:36.039 just as bad. 392 00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:42.200 If I was a person that was claiming to be 393 00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:45.920 the guy in the Patterson suit. You damn well better 394 00:23:46.039 --> 00:23:50.759 believe I'd remember every detail of that suit. I wore 395 00:23:50.839 --> 00:23:54.119 the most famous suit in history. I'm going to tell 396 00:23:54.160 --> 00:23:58.000 you I wore a diaper. I'm going to tell you 397 00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:01.319 I wore shoulder pads, and I you know, I'm going 398 00:24:01.400 --> 00:24:03.599 to know how many pieces it was and what it 399 00:24:03.640 --> 00:24:07.440 was made of, because that's it's important, because at some 400 00:24:07.559 --> 00:24:09.480 point in time, that's going to be important. 401 00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:14.519