Speaker 1: We counted all joy that you are here with us
Speaker 1: today per usual, Doctor West, and I are excited. This
Speaker 1: is our teach in Thursday session. And my god, I
Speaker 1: don't know how we keep doing it, but personality after personality,
Speaker 1: they are all folks who have shaped and shaped the
Speaker 1: world in different capacities, and it just keeps getting sweeter
Speaker 1: and sweeter and sweeter every single time. On today's teaching Thursday,
Speaker 1: we're talking about the one and only cash.
Speaker 2: Is Clay.
Speaker 1: Changing the name to Mohammad Ali, float like a butterfly
Speaker 1: and sting like a beat. Muhammad Ali was born on
Speaker 1: January seventeenth, nineteen forty two, and he went to the
Speaker 1: ancestral plane on June third, twenty sixteen. That wasn't Muhammad
Speaker 1: Ali calling me.
Speaker 2: I wish that was.
Speaker 1: That could have been this period. No Muhammad a leave
Speaker 1: just calling me in y'all. Oh, my god, Doc, we
Speaker 1: got so much to cover. I mean, he was a boxer,
Speaker 1: a father, a revolutionary, a husband, He found a different
Speaker 1: faith in the Nation of Islam, close friends with Minister
Speaker 1: Malcolm X, who we just recognized on May nineteenth. Had
Speaker 1: he still been alive on this plane would have been
Speaker 1: one hundred years old. I mean the types of folks
Speaker 1: that were bringing forward on our teacher in thursdays. It's
Speaker 1: like it's better than a good meal.
Speaker 3: Isn't that the true? True? Isn't that the true? No?
Speaker 3: I think Muhammad I Lei was the freest black man
Speaker 3: in the twentieth century, alongside Richard Pryor and Malcolm black Man.
Speaker 3: What I mean is indescribable levels of self respect, self regard,
Speaker 3: and self as willing to speak from the depths of
Speaker 3: his own heart, mind, soul and pay any cost to
Speaker 3: do it, and do it with so style. See, that's
Speaker 3: what it is to be free. And certainly for a
Speaker 3: free black man and a white supremacist civilization black people
Speaker 3: that thought to hate themselves, he had levels of self
Speaker 3: love and self respect that liberated thousands and thousands of
Speaker 3: not millions of people all around the world. In fact,
Speaker 3: is in the millions all around the world. But I
Speaker 3: know you certainly helped liberate me. When I saw that, brother,
Speaker 3: I said, Wow, good God, might tee that's what it
Speaker 3: is to be free.
Speaker 2: Yeah, me too.
Speaker 1: And just even in my studies in college, just coming
Speaker 1: to understand that he was so much more than a boxer.
Speaker 1: And I mean that with all all respect, what he
Speaker 1: was able to do in that ring definitely known as
Speaker 1: the greatest of all times in his time in that arena.
Speaker 1: Cannot take any of that from him. And he was
Speaker 1: the greatest of all times in other areas of his
Speaker 1: life as well, in terms of standing up for black people,
Speaker 1: having the clarity of mind to challenge the system in
Speaker 1: a way that caused him to have to sacrifice so much.
Speaker 1: I mean, the federal government came, the government came at
Speaker 1: him over him not wanting to go to the Vietnam War.
Speaker 2: He was crystal clear in.
Speaker 1: Terms of his conviction, the level of sacrifice that this
Speaker 1: man made by just being him. I think all of
Speaker 1: these things doc were innate in him, and it's like
Speaker 1: a sculptor sculpting clay.
Speaker 2: There no pun intended.
Speaker 1: The more and more he was more of himself and
Speaker 1: following his purpose, the more that formation really came. And
Speaker 1: I mean he challenged white supremacy straight up. And because
Speaker 1: he was good looking and he was fierce, he was
Speaker 1: quick witted. Just as quick as he was in that ring,
Speaker 1: he was quick outside the ring in terms of tangling
Speaker 1: up some of some of these folks who thought they
Speaker 1: were the best thinkers you know, in in in the world,
Speaker 1: the one of I remember when he was making it
Speaker 1: clear that he was not going to go to the
Speaker 1: Vietnam War, he made a statement that you know, basically
Speaker 1: saying that this country is wrong. And then he also said,
Speaker 1: none of those people over there ever called me the
Speaker 1: N word, but yet every day in this country, my
Speaker 1: people and me were called ends and we're just guarded
Speaker 1: and were disrespected. So you want to send me over
Speaker 1: to fight other brown people when they've done nothing to me?
Speaker 3: That's it. No, And that's that's that's his courage, that
Speaker 3: is with his wisdom, that's his fearlessness. And I think
Speaker 3: he got a lot of it from Odessa his mother.
Speaker 3: He got a lot of it from Cassius Place Senior,
Speaker 3: his father. He was shaping the Centennial Baptist Church right
Speaker 3: there in Louisville, Kentucky. He got a lot of it
Speaker 3: from his partners. And you think now he's very young.
Speaker 3: I mean, he wins the championship when he's twenty two
Speaker 3: years I was unprecedented, with the exception of Floyd Patterson,
Speaker 3: who one of the twenty one the Tyson Mike Tyson
Speaker 3: would go on to win when he's twenty but back
Speaker 3: in nineteen sixty four. He's born in nineteen forty two,
Speaker 3: he's twenty two years old. He's got the international stage.
Speaker 3: He is the most famous black man in the world.
Speaker 3: And what does he do with his fame? What does
Speaker 3: he do with his fortune? What does he do with
Speaker 3: his publicity? What does he do with his spectacle? He
Speaker 3: uses it in service not of himself but of black people.
Speaker 3: Think about you know, the celebrities these days, Think about
Speaker 3: the famous these days, about the rich these days? How
Speaker 3: many of them even come close to being willing to
Speaker 3: give all of that up on behalf of black folk.
Speaker 3: That's what he told them. He said, take the belt,
Speaker 3: He said, I love my people's. That's about as high
Speaker 3: as standard as you can get. Ill was himself enough
Speaker 3: to tell the truth as a wife doing it. He
Speaker 3: wasn't posing, he wasn't pop, didn't have to check with
Speaker 3: his agents, he didn't have to sult all of his
Speaker 3: various authorities. He's hired. He spoke from his heart mind.
Speaker 3: And so he's born the same years RITHA. Franklin and
Speaker 3: Curtis Mayfield nineteen forty.
Speaker 2: Two, that was a beautiful year.
Speaker 3: Two other great genius and giants and free black folk.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love you said. The free is black man.
Speaker 1: One of the free is black man of the twentieth century.
Speaker 1: And we are lifting up today Muhammad Ali, who was
Speaker 1: born as Cashist Marcellus Clay Junior. I love that middle name, Marcellus,
Speaker 1: that was.
Speaker 2: His birth name.
Speaker 1: He converted to Islam, the Black Muslims, to be exact,
Speaker 1: under the honorable Elijah Muhammad. He certainly is regarded as
Speaker 1: the greatest boxer of all time. The goat. You are
Speaker 1: listening to Truth Time with some two goats as well,
Speaker 1: and that's doctor Cornell West and myself, if I must
Speaker 1: say so, myself, Nina Turner. When we come forward, we
Speaker 1: will continue our conversation about Muhammad Ali. You are just
Speaker 1: adjoining us. You know, today is Thursday. It is our
Speaker 1: teach in Thursday day. For doctor West and myself, we
Speaker 1: do our level best to bring you personalities and issues
Speaker 1: that in the illuminate those issues in a deeper way
Speaker 1: than we ordinarily would have the opportunity to do.
Speaker 2: Our teacher in.
Speaker 1: Thursday days gives us that opportunity to get there and
Speaker 1: to go there with you. Today we are lifting up
Speaker 1: the life the legacy, the tremendous courage, the earth Shaker
Speaker 1: himself none other than Muhammad Ali. Muhammad Ali was born
Speaker 1: on January seventeenth, nineteen forty.
Speaker 2: Two, in Louisville, Kentucky.
Speaker 1: Now, if there are any Kentuckians in there, and I
Speaker 1: didn't pronounce Louisville correctly, please forgive me. I had an
Speaker 1: aunt who lived in Louisville, Kentucky for a while. So
Speaker 1: he was born on January seventeen, nineteen forty two, and
Speaker 1: he went to the ancestral plane on June third, twenty sixteen.
Speaker 1: He was in Scottsdale, Arizona at the time. But what
Speaker 1: Muhammad al Lee was able to do in between that dash,
Speaker 1: millions of people will never ever be able to do
Speaker 1: if they had a million lifetimes in between that day.
Speaker 1: Definitely regarded as the greatest boxer of the twentieth century,
Speaker 1: called the Goat. He had bizazz, he has style, he
Speaker 1: had skill, he had confidence, but more importantly, he had
Speaker 1: a love for his people. Doctor, you think, I don't
Speaker 1: know if he ever described himself. You know, we like
Speaker 1: to put labels on people, and I understand as human
Speaker 1: beings how we got to categorize things. I don't know
Speaker 1: if he ever referred to himself as an activist in
Speaker 1: the way that we think of it in the twenty
Speaker 1: first century.
Speaker 2: Your thoughts about that.
Speaker 3: That's a wonderful question. You know, we invited into Harvard
Speaker 3: and we had a magnificent time when he was there.
Speaker 3: He gave a powerful speech, and you know, he put
Speaker 3: out two spoken word albums that were Grammy nominations. So
Speaker 3: the brother had an oratorical genius that was un And
Speaker 3: I never heard him necessarily use that word, but he
Speaker 3: certainly viewed himself as part of a tradition.
Speaker 4: Of a tradition of political activism, though he wouldn't necessarily
Speaker 4: use the word of himself being primarily an activist because
Speaker 4: he knew that he was being persecuted.
Speaker 3: He knew that they're trying to send him to jail.
Speaker 3: He knew they were trying to incarcerate him. Well that
Speaker 3: makes you an activist, I mean, it's just just just
Speaker 3: no way around it. Uh. And he was willing to
Speaker 3: go to jail, and he was willing to articulate and
Speaker 3: say quite clearly why he was willing to go to
Speaker 3: you know, based on what you know that the deep
Speaker 3: love he had for the people and the deep love
Speaker 3: he had expressed people all around the world very much.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, he was definitely beloved and he was a
Speaker 1: sight to see. Could you imagine if social media existed
Speaker 1: at the time that Muhammad Ali was at his peak.
Speaker 1: I mean, he is just he is just theater. You know,
Speaker 1: he's a he's a he's old. When it comes to
Speaker 1: that man you're talking about going viral as we described it,
Speaker 1: I mean, he wouldn't be. He's not superficial in that
Speaker 1: he was doing those things to go viral. But my god,
Speaker 1: that personality and that commitment to justice. I don't think
Speaker 1: that anybody quite quite like him in that regard in
Speaker 1: terms of kind of forecasting out what a Muhammad Ali
Speaker 1: type personality would have been able to do with the
Speaker 1: tools that we have at our disposal today.
Speaker 3: Exactly right. And people got to keep in mind that
Speaker 3: he was the most hated black man in America when
Speaker 3: he joined the Nation of Islam, and he refused to
Speaker 3: fight in Vietnam, and when he gave his critique of
Speaker 3: pharmacy and racial segregation and America and apartheid. The risk
Speaker 3: that he took was just beyond the scripture and to
Speaker 3: go from the most hated black man to at the
Speaker 3: end of his life, the most loved black man is
Speaker 3: a roller coaster. A roller coaster. Is really quite amazing
Speaker 3: how he was able to deal with that kind of
Speaker 3: shift taking place in the culture.
Speaker 1: And thanks for reminding us of that, doctor West, because
Speaker 1: sometimes we get caught up in the allure, in the
Speaker 1: final product of the person, but we and I'm including
Speaker 1: myself and that as well, don't often talk about what
Speaker 1: it took to get there. So, yes, he was considered unpatriotic,
Speaker 1: a hater of the country. You know, similar the things
Speaker 1: that they said about minister Malcolm X two or Fred
Speaker 1: Hampton or anybody that stands up against white supremacy. They
Speaker 1: are often labeled and then you get the folks to
Speaker 1: start to believe it. You know, Minister Malcolm X had
Speaker 1: a quote that said, the media can get you to
Speaker 1: love whom they will and hate whom they will. And
Speaker 1: you put that propaganda out not only the media, but
Speaker 1: you got the federal government itself. You got government working
Speaker 1: against these various freedom fighters to whether it's Rosa.
Speaker 2: Parks, it's all of them.
Speaker 1: Got to some extent, some to higher degree where government,
Speaker 1: the United States government was involved infiltrated and trying to
Speaker 1: take down black movements that sought to elevate and to
Speaker 1: liberate black people, and that is including the Nation of Islam.
Speaker 1: They poisoned the well within the Nation of Islam against
Speaker 1: Minister Malcolm X. They poisoned the weale. You know, Muhammad
Speaker 1: Ali and Minister Malcolm X were really close, and then
Speaker 1: they poisoned that well. So now Muhammad Ali is wrestling
Speaker 1: with his commitment and love for the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. Rightfully,
Speaker 1: so both of these men loved the Honorable Elijah Muhammad
Speaker 1: and then their relationship and they broke up that relationlationship
Speaker 1: by poisoning the well. And we do forget about that.
Speaker 1: Can you just go a little deeper into what I
Speaker 1: just laid out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think what that means that anybody who raises
Speaker 3: their voices, any set of people who raises their voices,
Speaker 3: are going to be criminalized, are going to be a
Speaker 3: subject to character assassination, literal assassination. It was. I mean,
Speaker 3: the security around Muhammad Ali was thick, not just under
Speaker 3: Nation of Islam, but everywhere he went because he was
Speaker 3: such a teller and he was eighth to the powers
Speaker 3: that be. Anytime one really speech to Frank's speech or
Speaker 3: plain speech, unintimidated speech that he had. You are eighth.
Speaker 3: And of course, the mechanisms of repression in which you
Speaker 3: have spies and operativism generating internal conflict within black liberation groups.
Speaker 3: It could be the Black Panther Party, yeah, legal Revolutionary Workers,
Speaker 3: it could be any group that's concerned with black liberation.
Speaker 3: You are going to have the FBI infiltrating with black folk,
Speaker 3: with black folk paying black folk. Very Oh, that's very
Speaker 3: very real. Pharaoh has a whole lot of different strategies
Speaker 3: in order to undermine the folk that's trying to engage
Speaker 3: in the accidents.
Speaker 2: Ooh dot, oh my god.
Speaker 1: I think Doctoranahata will be proud because I was whispering
Speaker 1: and pointing at you instead of talking, because we cut
Speaker 1: each other off because of the system. But you guys,
Speaker 1: I just want y'all to know I am a manning
Speaker 1: everything that doctor West is saying about that, and so
Speaker 1: we got to be cognizant of these variables, these.
Speaker 2: Forces that are at work.
Speaker 1: Because justice itself, the seeking of it, is never a
Speaker 1: straight line. It's never pretty, as a matter of fact,
Speaker 1: it's messy, it's bloody. It can depress you, oppress you
Speaker 1: like all.
Speaker 2: Of those things.
Speaker 1: And when we think about the word liberation and we
Speaker 1: think about the word justice, certainly we have higher minded thinking.
Speaker 1: We think beautiful thoughts about it because we're not thinking
Speaker 1: about the journey that it took to get to said
Speaker 1: justice place. And then to understand that it is never
Speaker 1: a destination, it's a journey because there's always an equal
Speaker 1: and opposite force trying to thought that justice that we
Speaker 1: just gained.
Speaker 3: That's exactly right. That's why we got breakthroughs in backlashes,
Speaker 3: breakthroughs Nina Simms broke backlash blues. Lord have mercy. The
Speaker 3: Muhammad Ali would have understood that, because we have to
Speaker 3: deal breakthroughs in the sixties, the backlashes in the eighties.
Speaker 3: And if he were alive today, he would be raising
Speaker 3: his voice on television, on social media, his free self,
Speaker 3: his loving self, and would be telling some very deep
Speaker 3: truths about the gangster activity coming out of the White House.
Speaker 1: Nded, we need the spirit of Muhammad Ali at this time.
Speaker 1: I want to direct our audience dot to Ali Center
Speaker 1: dot org. That's Ali Center dot org. And they've done
Speaker 1: a beautiful, beautiful job of elevating on the elevating the
Speaker 1: life and the legacy of Muhammad Ali. You can go
Speaker 1: to the Ali Center dot org and they have like
Speaker 1: these beautiful collage pictures of him as a older man
Speaker 1: and under his name he championed the world.
Speaker 2: And I just want to read a portion of what.
Speaker 1: They have to say about the goats. If courage had
Speaker 1: to face, it would be the vestige of a man
Speaker 1: in full magnificent, magnificently complicated yet fully evolved, both myth
Speaker 1: mythic but real to touch. Courage would look like a
Speaker 1: world heavyweight champion, a contentious objector and activist, a diplomat,
Speaker 1: and a humanitarian. Courage would be Muhammad Ali.
Speaker 3: That's me, That's beauful God that merged. You know, I
Speaker 3: was blessed to be thesis adviser Mahamad Ali and son
Speaker 3: brother Jacob. Brother Jacob is a brilliant but it looks
Speaker 3: just like his grandfather too. And he's got a lot
Speaker 3: of integrity, honesty as well as brilliant. And just to
Speaker 3: reflecting on his grandfather, that sense of courage, the discipline. First,
Speaker 3: just winning the belt, everybody thought he was not gonna lose,
Speaker 3: he was gonna get knocked out, not in the next week,
Speaker 3: and the listener was knocking folk out daily. How's Muhammad
Speaker 3: Ali gonna get in that ring and even survive, let
Speaker 3: alone win. And he did it twice. So the level
Speaker 3: of sheer athletic excellence. And that's even before he becomes
Speaker 3: a more politically activist and so forth. It that we
Speaker 3: don't have a language for that level of what the
Speaker 3: Greeks called at a tay, which is excellent tied to
Speaker 3: the unity of vertu carriage in forty two. I mean,
Speaker 3: it's he really is a He's a very special brother.
Speaker 3: I was asked to introduce him in Atlanta by Tavis. Actually,
Speaker 3: Brother Tabs set up a beautiful event and I was
Speaker 3: asked to introduce a lead lord have me. I'm glad
Speaker 3: we got a picture of that. My brother was there,
Speaker 3: my blood brother Cliff was there too, and I just
Speaker 3: I just opened up my heart to that brother and
Speaker 3: he gave me the biggest hug. And I shall remember
Speaker 3: that as long as I live in Jason time and
Speaker 3: tell us repeat a game.
Speaker 2: Where were you?
Speaker 3: I was down in Atlanta. It was a gathering Brother
Speaker 3: Tavis put together. I forget exactly what it was. We
Speaker 3: were giving him an award, but I forget exactly what
Speaker 3: the event was, but it was the more public time
Speaker 3: I met him in the airport. I'd met him in
Speaker 3: Harvard when I was an undergrad, but I was much
Speaker 3: older now, and I talked about how he was right
Speaker 3: about the war, he was right about his critique of
Speaker 3: white supremacy. He was right about what it means to
Speaker 3: be a black man standing with unbelievable dignity and grace
Speaker 3: and style, and being true to yourself and lifting your
Speaker 3: voice and not being some cheap echo. And he got
Speaker 3: into it. Lord, he got into that introduction. I said, Lord,
Speaker 3: the spirit using me in front of my.
Speaker 1: Come on, doc, I'm telling you, doctor West, listen for
Speaker 1: all our family, everybody out there in the audience, and
Speaker 1: our friendemies, our friends and our friendemies.
Speaker 2: Doctor, you have some of the best stories.
Speaker 1: I can't tell you how blessed I consider myself to
Speaker 1: be able to be in this moment in time with
Speaker 1: you and just be regaled by the stories that you
Speaker 1: have to tell in terms of the experiences and the
Speaker 1: places and the spaces that you've been in. And I
Speaker 1: hope to be so blessed to be able to share
Speaker 1: some of my stories about my time with you to younger,
Speaker 1: younger generations. You know, we both were both young adjacent.
Speaker 1: I like to call myself younger Jason, and it's just
Speaker 1: it's that's a beautiful thing. And you know Ryan helps
Speaker 1: us out on these days, and I know for him
Speaker 1: is very edified. I'm sure he feels the way that
Speaker 1: I feel that I never thought in a million years
Speaker 1: somebody that I've admired from Afar for so long and
Speaker 1: reading your very first book, Race Matters.
Speaker 2: And how gracious you were.
Speaker 1: I mean, I tell this story all the time because
Speaker 1: that story means more to me, even in you and
Speaker 1: I being able to be on the trail together with
Speaker 1: Senator Bernie Sanders, but just the first impression and how
Speaker 1: humble you've always been, although you are internationally galactically renowned.
Speaker 2: That's what I like to call you.
Speaker 1: And to know that you're in the space with Muhammad
Speaker 1: Ali and you're feeling what I'm feeling about you. It
Speaker 1: really is just a beautiful thing. You and Muhammad Ali
Speaker 1: are definitely cut from the same cloth. That was a
Speaker 1: long way for me to say that part.
Speaker 3: What the truth is too, is that the folk who
Speaker 3: spend time with you will have all of those stories
Speaker 3: about you and your vision, your courage, your brilliant your
Speaker 3: sense of sacrifice, your service to the least of these,
Speaker 3: your consistency, and in terms of trying to deal with
Speaker 3: the absurdity of being black and a Marrick godo. Oh, folks,
Speaker 3: gonna have some stories.
Speaker 2: Hey, you bringing tears to my eyes here.
Speaker 1: Ryan is one of those younger people who he knows
Speaker 1: he's been charged. Tim and Tiffany and some others. They
Speaker 1: know they must keep our story alive. They must do this. So,
Speaker 1: oh my god, speaking of stories, you're listening to Truth
Speaker 1: Time with doctor Cornel West and Anina Turner. We are
Speaker 1: lifting up the life, the legacy, the earth shaking phenomenon
Speaker 1: himself that is none other than Muhammad Ali. When we
Speaker 1: come forward, we will continue this riveting discussion, is our teacher.
Speaker 1: In Thursday day and today, we are talking about the
Speaker 1: greatest of all time himself, the Goat, Muhammad al Lee,
Speaker 1: the heavyweight champion of the world, renowned as the greatest
Speaker 1: heavyweight champion of the twentieth century. And not only was
Speaker 1: he profound in the ring, he was a profound human being,
Speaker 1: flawed like the rest of us. Doctor West and I
Speaker 1: always bringing that forward about anybody that we're lifting up,
Speaker 1: because even people who are on the right mission at
Speaker 1: the right time are still flawed, just like we are.
Speaker 1: People are flawed. He was magnificent in his love for
Speaker 1: black people and his willingness to make a sacrifice and
Speaker 1: to speak up and to speak out. And he did
Speaker 1: not cower for anybody. And not only did he sacrifice once,
Speaker 1: he made those kind of sacrifices that had a ripple
Speaker 1: effect to his family. A lot of times when we
Speaker 1: talk about the individuals who make the sacrifices, we don't
Speaker 1: necessarily recognize that it's not just them, it's every in
Speaker 1: their orbit is impacted by the sacrifice that they just
Speaker 1: made to stand up for truth and justice.
Speaker 2: And so I want to bring forward a quote.
Speaker 1: About Muhammad Ali coming from the great comedian activism True
Speaker 1: Telling himself, Dick Gregory, and he once said, if people
Speaker 1: from outer space came to Earth and we had to
Speaker 1: give them one representative of our species to show them
Speaker 1: our physical prowess, our spirituality, our decency, our warmth, our kindness,
Speaker 1: our humor, and most of all our capacity to love,
Speaker 1: it would be Ali.
Speaker 3: My God, My God, My God, that's another free black man,
Speaker 3: Dick Gregory out of Saint Louis, Missouri. It could be
Speaker 3: said more eloquently than that, and they're better than that.
Speaker 3: But you know, the fascinating thing about that formulation is
Speaker 3: that the people coming from outside of this planet would
Speaker 3: be highly mislayed because that they thought that the other
Speaker 3: people on the planet were like Muhammad Ali. They would
Speaker 3: have a mis report, they'd have a full miss report
Speaker 3: because he would be representing the best. As Dick greg says,
Speaker 3: but Lord, get to the rest of us, they gonna
Speaker 3: be profoundly disappointed.
Speaker 1: Indeed, indeed, I mean that that that quote just encapsulates.
Speaker 3: That says it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't know what he was channeling when he came
Speaker 1: up with that, but that.
Speaker 2: That was quite stunning.
Speaker 3: So how did you find that quote?
Speaker 1: That quote is on the Ali Ali Center dot Org.
Speaker 1: I mean they laid this out, this thing out.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want people to go there.
Speaker 1: The Ali Center itself is in Louisville, Kentucky, so if
Speaker 1: you're ever passing through, please go there. It's also where
Speaker 1: the Great Simmons College of Kentucky.
Speaker 3: Brother Kevin and Louis Brogan and all the other freedom
Speaker 3: fighters are there.
Speaker 1: They are there, Doctor Agues this Ali Center dot o RG.
Speaker 1: Go there and hear and read what they have taken
Speaker 1: the just the time to really encapsulate the spirit and
Speaker 1: the essence of Muhammad Ali. So one of the things
Speaker 1: also that that they put out is about his spirituality.
Speaker 1: Muhammad Ali's religion and spirituality defined his character and made an.
Speaker 2: Impact on the world.
Speaker 1: You were saying earlier in our discussion that the part
Speaker 1: of the essence of who he is definitely came from
Speaker 1: his parents and their spiritual leanings. Even though he converted,
Speaker 1: how he started is very much in him as well
Speaker 1: as how he ended.
Speaker 3: I think so. I think so. I mean the fact
Speaker 3: that he had been so deeply shaped by the Baptist Church,
Speaker 3: and the Baptist Church is not just an ecclesiastical institution,
Speaker 3: it is a spiritual and cultural center for black life.
Speaker 3: So even those who leave the church in the sense
Speaker 3: in which the church never leaves him, even those who
Speaker 3: break from the church take with them elements of that
Speaker 3: church in their break. And that's true for the honor
Speaker 3: of Elijah Muhammad, who himself was Revern Elijah Pool Baptist minister.
Speaker 3: And then meets Master Farad and the rest is history,
Speaker 3: so that that history is something that we all have
Speaker 3: into consideration, no matter what it's like Gladys Knight, Okay,
Speaker 3: she might be a Mormon now, but she comes out
Speaker 3: of Mount Moriah Baptist Church in Atlanta, Georgia, and you
Speaker 3: could feel that Baptist scibility shot through the genius of
Speaker 3: Gladys Knight, even though she's now left that particular denomination
Speaker 3: of going to another. So it was with Malcolm X.
Speaker 3: I think so even when he becomes Muslim, he carries
Speaker 3: with him his formation and his shaping in the Baptist Church.
Speaker 3: As he now you know, quite consciously liberately becomes a
Speaker 3: follower of Honibolage moment breaks from the Honibloge Mohamad and
Speaker 3: becomes an Orthodox Sunni Muslim.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, my dad, my dad is a Sunni Muslim as well.
Speaker 3: Magnificent father. I met him on many occasion I can
Speaker 3: testify to on that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for that, Doc.
Speaker 1: And and just like just like Muhammad Ali, just like
Speaker 1: a minister Malcolm, my dad too was raised in a
Speaker 1: Baptist tradition and he still goes to Baptist churches to
Speaker 1: visit because that's his childhood. You know that's his upbringing
Speaker 1: from my from my grandmother. And I often joke with you,
Speaker 1: I call myself a bap to Costal because my mom
Speaker 1: went Pentecostal before she died, So I got both in me.
Speaker 2: Back to Costal is what I.
Speaker 1: Am, and I wrestle with that too, Doc, I mean
Speaker 1: the more knowledge and information that I receive as as
Speaker 1: a as a as a person still maturing and evolving
Speaker 1: in this thing called life.
Speaker 2: You know, I wrestled with religion.
Speaker 1: All the time, and and God and whether evil is
Speaker 1: winning on this earth. You know, I feel like that
Speaker 1: it is very day that evil is winning on this earth.
Speaker 1: I know in our religion were taught that the devil
Speaker 1: or the spirit of Satan is the prince of the earth,
Speaker 1: and the Prince of the earth is winning right now.
Speaker 3: I just oh to know doubt about that though.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wrestle with that.
Speaker 3: Or influenced by a variety of different traditions. Nothing wrong
Speaker 3: but seeing the rich insights of Buddhism the way Bell
Speaker 3: Hooks did when she became a Buddhist, come out of
Speaker 3: the Black Baptist Church or of Judaism. We got a
Speaker 3: lot of Black Jews who've been shaped early on by
Speaker 3: a church and become followers of Judaism, you know Sammy
Speaker 3: Davis's juniors and so forth. Or you got Black Hindus
Speaker 3: Old Track, one of the great artistic figures of the
Speaker 3: twentieth century, not just wife or John Oldtran, but an
Speaker 3: artists in her own right who became a Hindu. There's
Speaker 3: a lot of different insights from a variety of different traditions.
Speaker 3: Traditional African religions have profound insights in this regard, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean. We've got to recognize that all
Speaker 3: of us are hybrid, all of us pulling from a
Speaker 3: variety of different traditions. We just have to be true
Speaker 3: to ourselves and come down where we come down.
Speaker 1: Hey man, thank you. I needed that clarity. We are
Speaker 1: all hybrids. And I think even Tina Turner herself when
Speaker 1: she started, you know, practicing.
Speaker 2: As well with the yeah, I'm just in deep thought.
Speaker 1: I did not necessarily know our conversation was gonna take
Speaker 1: us here. You're listening to Truth Time without the corner
Speaker 1: of us and needed Turner. You never know what's gonna
Speaker 1: pop off on on the teaching in Thursdays, we're talking
Speaker 1: about the one and only the greatest himself, Muhammed Ali.
Speaker 1: One of his quotes, although my religion would change later
Speaker 1: in my life, God was always in my heart. That
Speaker 1: is the essence of what we're talking about right now.
Speaker 1: When we come forward, we will continue our discussion. Thank
Speaker 1: you for coming forward with us on this teach in Thursday.
Speaker 1: If you are just not joining us, ooh, you are
Speaker 1: going to want to go back and listen to this
Speaker 1: from the beginning.
Speaker 2: You can do that by downloading the app.
Speaker 1: Kbla app, or listen to us wherever you get your podcast.
Speaker 1: Today we are lifting up the life and the legacy
Speaker 1: of the one and only Muhammad Ali. Certainly the greatest
Speaker 1: of all times. Yes he was, and so doc as
Speaker 1: we were coming forward, we were talking about his religious tradition.
Speaker 1: I think his mother was Methodist, father Baptist, or I
Speaker 1: might have those reverse, but he came up in that
Speaker 1: Christian tradition and then in the sixties he converted to Islam,
Speaker 1: and specifically the Black Muslims, led by the honorable Elijah Muhammad.
Speaker 1: He went before he got the name Muhammad Ali. And
Speaker 1: I think his brother right his brother was with him,
Speaker 1: I believe.
Speaker 2: Where they were taken to a meeting a meeting by with.
Speaker 1: The Nation of Islam, and then it just sparked something
Speaker 1: in him and he became a convert. His first name, though,
Speaker 1: was Casshiu's x before.
Speaker 3: Right, right, Yes, I think he was renamed by the
Speaker 3: Honorabilija Muhammad himself when he became Mohammed. You are absolutely right,
Speaker 3: and we should keep in mind. You know, that name,
Speaker 3: Cassius Marcellus Clay was the name of an abolitionist in
Speaker 3: Kentucky that goes back to the nineteenth century. I didn't
Speaker 3: know that m m hm, very very famous figure in
Speaker 3: the abolitionist movement. So his father was named that, and
Speaker 3: then his father named.
Speaker 1: Yeah wow, yeah, I was gonna say, because he's junior.
Speaker 1: So how his father's parents deliberately named him. You know,
Speaker 1: within the West African at least tradition the naming ceremonies,
Speaker 1: they didn't just name their kids any old thing.
Speaker 2: We didn't changed that. We named babies Alas and don't
Speaker 2: even get it.
Speaker 1: Started out he named one of them all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 1: But there was a tradition to naming folks. And I
Speaker 1: love you know one since we're talking about names. One
Speaker 1: of my favorite debates that that Minister Malcolm X had
Speaker 1: is when he was debating this white guy about his name.
Speaker 2: What is his true name? What is his birth name?
Speaker 2: And he kept going.
Speaker 1: Back and forth.
Speaker 2: He's like, we don't know our true name. He said,
Speaker 2: you ain't gonna just tell me. He was like Malcolm X.
Speaker 1: He tried to get Minister Malcolm X to put that
Speaker 1: little out there, but he refused it. He's like, well,
Speaker 1: what was your father's name? He said, my father didn't
Speaker 1: know his name, God oh man. But all of that
Speaker 1: was steeped in him, coming from his voracious love for reading,
Speaker 1: and then what the Nation of Islam was able to
Speaker 1: do for him, and the same for Muhammad al Li.
Speaker 1: You know, you got these men who are already gifted
Speaker 1: and called to a purpose that's stirring inside of them.
Speaker 1: And then the different experiences and encounters that they were having.
Speaker 1: We're all of that, all of that up to the top.
Speaker 2: Doc.
Speaker 1: I'm telling you, Lord, have mercy. Muhammad Ali once said
Speaker 1: that it was after I retired from boxing that my
Speaker 1: true work began.
Speaker 2: Letting us know. But we got many chapters before this
Speaker 2: thing is all over, many many many.
Speaker 1: Chapters before it is all said and done. Just love
Speaker 1: and love and loving Muhammed A.
Speaker 2: Lee.
Speaker 1: You're listening to Truth Time doctor Cordell West and and
Speaker 1: Nina Turner. We're talking about the earth shaking man himself,
Speaker 1: the goat, Muhammad Ali. When we come forward, we will
Speaker 1: continue this conversation. Listening to Truth Time with doctor Cornell
Speaker 1: West and Nina Turner. Today is our teaching Thursday Day.
Speaker 1: We're lifting up the life, the legacy, the earth shattering,
Speaker 1: shaking man himself, Muhammad Ali. So that we were talking
Speaker 1: about his religion, his upbringing, how he started off in
Speaker 1: Christianity and then the Nation of Islam. You know, his
Speaker 1: conversion that did something for him as he continued his journey,
Speaker 1: not just as the greatest of all times in terms
Speaker 1: of his profession, which is boxing the sacrifices that he made,
Speaker 1: that real sacrifice or the real sacrifice.
Speaker 2: One of the real sacrifices.
Speaker 1: That he made was to be in opposition to the
Speaker 1: Vietnam War. So in nineteen sixty five, Muhammad Ali's draft
Speaker 1: class is changed after the US Army lower standards for
Speaker 1: the aptitude test score. So people had to take test,
Speaker 1: you have to score something, so they lowered it because
Speaker 1: they needed more people to be able to put into war.
Speaker 1: In February nineteen sixty six, one month before Muhammad Ali
Speaker 1: was set to fight Ernie Terrell in Chicago, Illinois, Ali
Speaker 1: stated that he had no interest in going to Vietnam
Speaker 1: to fight and express opposition to the war. The opposition
Speaker 1: angered the Illinois State Athletic Commission, who banned the fight
Speaker 1: from taking place.
Speaker 2: So now we see.
Speaker 1: Government injecting itself to thwart this man from standing up
Speaker 1: and having a righteous indignation against this war. I hope
Speaker 1: that our people who are with us are following what
Speaker 1: we say and dot this is not just individuals in
Speaker 1: disagreement with him. It is yet another example of how government,
Speaker 1: whether it's local. When we talked about the move the
Speaker 1: anniversary of the move bombing to state to federal, government
Speaker 1: injects itself into fourteen black people's ability to live as
Speaker 1: free thinking people.
Speaker 3: That's exactly right. And of course, I mean the government
Speaker 3: has always played a crucial role in facilitating the assaults
Speaker 3: acts on black people, from the Supreme Court to Congress
Speaker 3: and presidents, and that long long legacy of weaponizing government
Speaker 3: to ensure the subjugation of black people. Jim Crow, then
Speaker 3: Jane Crow, can't pass anti lynching Bill don't want to
Speaker 3: come to terms with discrimination in a serious way for
Speaker 3: almost one hundred and some years. I mean, all of
Speaker 3: the issues reach a point that when Muhammad Ali emerges
Speaker 3: as the most famous black man on the planet. We're
Speaker 3: talking globally here galactically. Yeah, then the attacks in pensified,
Speaker 3: not just in the ring, but in the ring of life,
Speaker 3: in the ring of his stor rig And what does
Speaker 3: he do? He does little ropodope, what does he do?
Speaker 3: He gets even more resilient. What does he do? He
Speaker 3: has more resistance? What did he do? Got more language,
Speaker 3: got more smile, got more laugh got more love, got
Speaker 3: more memory, got more histor ying, and puts a smile
Speaker 3: on Jack Johnson's face, puts a smile on Marcus Garvey's face,
Speaker 3: puts a smile on W. B. Dubois's face.
Speaker 2: Yes he does. Doc, Oh my god, I cannot believe.
Speaker 2: We might have to do a part two to this.
Speaker 2: This is teaching Thursday. But doctor Cornel West and Nina
Speaker 2: Turner on true top. I want to end in the
Speaker 2: words of the man himself. If my mind can.
Speaker 1: Conceive it and my heart can't believe it, then I
Speaker 1: can achieve it to be a great champion. You must
Speaker 1: believe you are the best if you're or not, pretend
Speaker 1: you are. I am the greatest. I said that even
Speaker 1: before I knew I was. Oh my god, I absolutely
Speaker 1: blah love Muhammad Ali, the ghat the greatest of all time.
Speaker 1: Please visit Ali Center dot org a Lei Center dot org.
Speaker 2: We are lifting you up.
Speaker 1: Live your purpose, live on purpose, and remember titles are
Speaker 1: good for purposes.
Speaker 2: Better until next time.