WEBVTT 1 00:00:25.839 --> 00:00:29.559 We got Pittsburgh and Toledo going on right now. 2 00:00:30.600 --> 00:00:34.560 The game above Sports Bowl Bowl Season b YU is 3 00:00:34.600 --> 00:00:37.399 going to take on Colorado coming up on Saturday. Should 4 00:00:37.399 --> 00:00:40.119 be one of the best non CFP Bowl games. That's 5 00:00:40.119 --> 00:00:43.840 gonna be a five to thirty kicktime on ABC and 6 00:00:43.880 --> 00:00:47.320 the Alamo Bowl. Right now, Colorado is a four point favorite. 7 00:00:47.560 --> 00:00:49.920 Excited to catch up with our next guest. He joined 8 00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:52.039 the show a few times back in the day when 9 00:00:52.039 --> 00:00:54.799 I was doing with Gordo. He is a legend, played 10 00:00:54.840 --> 00:00:57.320 at Brigham Young, played little NFL football. Great to have 11 00:00:57.399 --> 00:01:00.359 Jim Herman on the drive on a Thursday. Jim, Merry 12 00:01:00.439 --> 00:01:01.759 Christmas season. How are you, sir? 13 00:01:02.679 --> 00:01:04.920 Merry Christmas to you, Spence. Thank you, Yeah, good for 14 00:01:04.959 --> 00:01:08.359 having me good. Things are good. Got through Christmas, survived 15 00:01:09.040 --> 00:01:11.439 and enjoy it and excited for the new year. I 16 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:13.239 can't believe it's twenty twenty five already. 17 00:01:13.319 --> 00:01:15.439 I know, man, I know. What does Christmas look like 18 00:01:15.480 --> 00:01:16.599 in the Herman household? 19 00:01:17.640 --> 00:01:20.439 Man, it's great. I got three boys. They're all married. 20 00:01:20.519 --> 00:01:24.120 I actually hard to believe. I actually have grandkids, as 21 00:01:24.159 --> 00:01:26.439 crazy as that is. Wow, So I get to see them. 22 00:01:26.760 --> 00:01:29.079 I got a couple kids living in La right now 23 00:01:29.159 --> 00:01:32.359 building a business and everyone's home and so we're having 24 00:01:32.359 --> 00:01:34.959 a great time, family and fun and all sorts of 25 00:01:34.959 --> 00:01:37.519 great things. And I grew up in Wisconsin, so I 26 00:01:37.519 --> 00:01:41.200 actually have some Wisconsin family that owns a place up 27 00:01:41.200 --> 00:01:43.719 in Deer Valley and they're coming out. My mother in 28 00:01:43.799 --> 00:01:47.120 law's coming. So yeah, good things. 29 00:01:46.640 --> 00:01:48.239 Very nice. Great to hear, great to hear. 30 00:01:48.319 --> 00:01:51.000 So I started the show off today, Jim with just 31 00:01:51.000 --> 00:01:54.480 what I perceived to be a broken sport, albeit a 32 00:01:54.480 --> 00:01:58.680 great product in college football. And you know, it's it's 33 00:01:58.719 --> 00:02:01.599 insane to me that essentially what we're dealing with is 34 00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:05.640 free agency during the year, right, So you have coaches 35 00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:07.640 that are trying to coach their team up for bowl 36 00:02:07.640 --> 00:02:11.400 games or CFP games to try to win national championships, 37 00:02:11.400 --> 00:02:14.800 and then after practice they've got to run collateral damage 38 00:02:14.840 --> 00:02:17.360 to make sure their players aren't being contacted by agents. 39 00:02:17.439 --> 00:02:21.039 And so many teams that are still playing, including Brigham Young, 40 00:02:21.159 --> 00:02:23.599 have several players that are in the portal while the 41 00:02:23.639 --> 00:02:25.479 season is still going on. 42 00:02:25.560 --> 00:02:26.560 What are your thoughts on this. 43 00:02:26.599 --> 00:02:30.599 Dynamic, specifically, the college football essentially has free agency wall 44 00:02:30.639 --> 00:02:31.599 games are being played. 45 00:02:32.800 --> 00:02:36.240 That's crazy. Actually, I agree with you, Spent. I actually 46 00:02:36.280 --> 00:02:39.919 think it's worse than free agency because free agency has 47 00:02:39.960 --> 00:02:43.520 some rules and some guardrails, and there's actually seems to 48 00:02:43.560 --> 00:02:46.439 be a method to the manness. Certainly at the NFL level, 49 00:02:47.319 --> 00:02:50.280 people change teams. At that level, it's a job, and 50 00:02:50.400 --> 00:02:53.280 they're looking up for opportunities and places to go enhance 51 00:02:53.319 --> 00:02:57.240 their careers. Weirdly, that's trickled down to college football, but 52 00:02:57.280 --> 00:03:01.039 there just seems to be no rules for for sport 53 00:03:01.080 --> 00:03:03.319 that I grew up in and was around for years. 54 00:03:03.439 --> 00:03:06.319 My brother played college football, obviously, lots of friends of mine, 55 00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:09.840 and you know, as long as I can remember, until 56 00:03:09.879 --> 00:03:17.000 the you know, real, not too distant future, was the 57 00:03:17.639 --> 00:03:20.400 strict guidelines of the NCAAA. My gosh, you couldn't get 58 00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:23.080 an ice cream cone. You couldn't you couldn't even think 59 00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:27.680 about transferring unless you've sat out a year, And there 60 00:03:27.680 --> 00:03:29.800 are all these rules and restrictions, and now it just 61 00:03:29.800 --> 00:03:32.240 seems to be a total free for all, which I 62 00:03:32.280 --> 00:03:35.879 don't really understand. I don't know why someone hasn't stepped 63 00:03:35.879 --> 00:03:38.560 in there. There used to seem to be a governing 64 00:03:38.599 --> 00:03:43.159 body that would try to curtail some of these things, 65 00:03:43.159 --> 00:03:46.520 but now it just seems to Every year the rules change, 66 00:03:47.439 --> 00:03:50.800 and you know, maybe there's there's the Wizard of Oz 67 00:03:50.840 --> 00:03:54.120 out there that's making it all work in some chaotic 68 00:03:54.479 --> 00:03:57.199 form or fashion. But I'm with you, it seems to 69 00:03:57.319 --> 00:04:01.039 absolutely be crazy. I mean, krewe wakeleet, who I think 70 00:04:01.159 --> 00:04:04.000 is you know, one of DA's best defensive backs is 71 00:04:04.479 --> 00:04:06.479 in the portal, not going to play in the game 72 00:04:06.639 --> 00:04:10.840 that hurts against an unbelievable Colorado team that throws the 73 00:04:10.879 --> 00:04:16.560 ball and has crazy skilled positions and and is really 74 00:04:16.600 --> 00:04:20.839 apt at testing defensive backfields all around the country. And 75 00:04:21.240 --> 00:04:23.720 now VAU is at a disadvantage. And it seems, weirdly, 76 00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:25.879 it seems Colorado's kind of kept it all together. I'm 77 00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:28.560 not as informed as to the comings and goings over 78 00:04:28.600 --> 00:04:32.360 there on their team, but from the macro landscape of 79 00:04:32.399 --> 00:04:35.360 college football, it seems to be a mess. And I 80 00:04:35.439 --> 00:04:40.120 keep hoping. I really defer to you know, certainly I'm 81 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:42.879 influenced by the NFL model one because I think it works. 82 00:04:43.279 --> 00:04:47.040 I grew up in a state where the Green Bay 83 00:04:47.079 --> 00:04:50.079 Packers are in a tiny little town smaller than Logan, Utah, 84 00:04:50.079 --> 00:04:52.680 and they fill a stadium of ninety thousand people, and 85 00:04:52.680 --> 00:04:55.519 there's They're the only way that can survive is because 86 00:04:55.519 --> 00:04:59.079 their central leadership with a game plan to make sure 87 00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:02.600 that all the teams within the league played by the 88 00:05:02.639 --> 00:05:05.360 same rules and have the opportunity to compete whether you're 89 00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:08.279 in a big market, small market, big school, small school. 90 00:05:08.920 --> 00:05:12.319 And they've done a really good job of putting what 91 00:05:12.399 --> 00:05:15.759 I think is a framework that, based on where college 92 00:05:15.759 --> 00:05:18.560 football is going, could could work at the college football level. 93 00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:22.600 But until their central leadership in college football, you know, 94 00:05:22.639 --> 00:05:25.120 getting back to the free agency question, I don't know how. 95 00:05:25.480 --> 00:05:27.959 I don't know how it changes because the Big Twelve 96 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:31.040 kills about the Big Twelve, the Pac Ten. I'm sorry 97 00:05:31.120 --> 00:05:33.800 that the SEC cares about the SEC. The Big ten 98 00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:37.279 cares about the Big Ten, and someone's supposed to be 99 00:05:37.279 --> 00:05:40.759 caring about you know, college football as a whole, and 100 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:42.720 I don't know who that is because it just seems 101 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:45.000 to be running crazy, crazy wild. 102 00:05:45.319 --> 00:05:47.639 I wonder what your thoughts are, gim on what could 103 00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:51.759 be next, because I wholehrdly agree and I've talked on 104 00:05:51.800 --> 00:05:54.800 the show a lot about rip the band aid off 105 00:05:54.920 --> 00:05:57.879 and just use the pro model, Okay, allow the players 106 00:05:57.920 --> 00:06:01.920 to unionize collectively, bargain with the people in charge, and 107 00:06:02.160 --> 00:06:04.720 that way you know, I'm not saying they sign four 108 00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:07.839 or five year contracts, but sign contracts that you're gonna 109 00:06:07.839 --> 00:06:09.759 be with the program for a couple of years, maybe 110 00:06:09.800 --> 00:06:12.920 with an option after that, and that way you don't 111 00:06:12.920 --> 00:06:15.920 have to rebuild your program every single year if you 112 00:06:15.959 --> 00:06:17.759 know you have a player for two or three years 113 00:06:17.879 --> 00:06:19.199 or something like it. 114 00:06:19.199 --> 00:06:20.920 It seems like coaches are for it. 115 00:06:20.920 --> 00:06:24.000 It seems like players would be for it because then 116 00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:27.600 the contracts could be legal and above board with. 117 00:06:27.879 --> 00:06:29.120 Right now, there's no regulation. 118 00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:31.839 If you want to pay a quarterback a billion dollars 119 00:06:31.839 --> 00:06:34.879 to play at BYU, you can pay them a billion dollars. 120 00:06:35.439 --> 00:06:36.959 So move to the pro model. 121 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:41.120 I know there will be unfortunate collateral damage of athletic 122 00:06:41.240 --> 00:06:43.839 departments that don't have the same amount of revenue. 123 00:06:43.480 --> 00:06:44.959 Because football is the cash cow. 124 00:06:45.720 --> 00:06:48.879 But I also believe Jim, at some point and you 125 00:06:49.160 --> 00:06:51.279 exist in some of these spaces right now as well, 126 00:06:51.600 --> 00:06:53.879 private equity guys are going to get involved here, and 127 00:06:53.920 --> 00:06:57.600 they're gonna start buying college football teams, buying stakes, and 128 00:06:57.639 --> 00:07:01.959 college football teams infuse the programs with money up front, 129 00:07:02.240 --> 00:07:05.560 with the promise that their investment will pay incredible dividends. 130 00:07:05.600 --> 00:07:09.439 Once this pro model becomes a reality. But in your opinion, 131 00:07:09.480 --> 00:07:11.279 you're a smart guy. What do you think is standing 132 00:07:11.360 --> 00:07:14.519 in the way now of college football just getting this done? 133 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:17.199 Because I believe it would solve the majority of the 134 00:07:17.240 --> 00:07:18.879 issues that face the sport right now. 135 00:07:19.959 --> 00:07:23.240 Yeah, couldn't agree more Spence. I mean, you and I 136 00:07:23.279 --> 00:07:26.360 are fully aligned. What I think standing in place is 137 00:07:26.399 --> 00:07:29.000 just to echo what I said, it's central leadership. I 138 00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:33.319 you know, lover hate Roger Goodell. He represents the owners right. 139 00:07:33.439 --> 00:07:36.000 And I was a union member when I was in 140 00:07:36.040 --> 00:07:38.800 the NFL. I paid my union dues. We had representatives, 141 00:07:38.839 --> 00:07:43.519 We talked, we met, We discussed issues that were relevant 142 00:07:43.560 --> 00:07:47.720 to us as players, and we relied on our representatives 143 00:07:47.480 --> 00:07:50.279 to be union to you know, speak for us as 144 00:07:50.319 --> 00:07:53.120 a union voice to the owners when they got together 145 00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:57.319 and collectively bargained. I was injured right before the strike here, 146 00:07:57.360 --> 00:07:59.800 way back in maybe seven eighty eight. So I played 147 00:08:00.160 --> 00:08:02.439 eighty five eighty six, then got injured. Then there was 148 00:08:02.480 --> 00:08:04.759 a strike here, and then I actually got a couple 149 00:08:04.839 --> 00:08:07.720 surgeries and then actually signed after the second collective bargaining 150 00:08:07.759 --> 00:08:10.879 agreement with the LA Raiders. And so I saw it 151 00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:13.959 and I live it now. We started an NFL alumni 152 00:08:14.040 --> 00:08:17.839 chapter here and it's it's amazing what's changed and what's 153 00:08:17.879 --> 00:08:26.560 transpired for X players. But certainly from a current player 154 00:08:26.600 --> 00:08:32.039 standpoint and someone who's in the league, there's rules, there's representation, 155 00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:35.399 there's a there's a plan, but it only comes with 156 00:08:35.519 --> 00:08:38.720 central leadership. In my opinion, I just don't as of 157 00:08:38.840 --> 00:08:41.840 right now, the SEC is so powerful and the Big 158 00:08:41.879 --> 00:08:44.399 ten's not far behind, or vice versa. I'm not actually 159 00:08:44.440 --> 00:08:48.799 sure who generates more on a perching basis, but weirdly, 160 00:08:49.519 --> 00:08:52.679 as a conference they kind of collectively bargain. So the 161 00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:55.240 way I understand that the Big Ten goes out and 162 00:08:55.240 --> 00:09:00.879 negotiates rights, media rights, and creates content, and that content's 163 00:09:00.919 --> 00:09:04.720 distributed and they're paid by the distributors of the content, 164 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:07.600 and then that is equally divided amongst the schools in 165 00:09:07.639 --> 00:09:10.240 the Big Ten and the SEC. So they're doing it 166 00:09:10.600 --> 00:09:14.679 on a conference basis. But people need to understand. And 167 00:09:15.240 --> 00:09:17.600 I wasn't a member of the PAC twelve or part 168 00:09:17.639 --> 00:09:19.240 of the school that was a member of the PAC twelve, 169 00:09:19.240 --> 00:09:23.200 but this is the nation's favorite sport. It spans from 170 00:09:23.200 --> 00:09:25.720 coast to coast, and I think it's a travesty. What 171 00:09:25.840 --> 00:09:28.200 happened on the Pact to the PAC twelve and on 172 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:31.159 the West coast. But someone needs to look out for that. 173 00:09:31.480 --> 00:09:33.519 There should not be two teams in LA that get 174 00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:35.360 on a plane on a weekly basis and fly to 175 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:40.200 Maryland or Happy Valley, Pennsylvania to participate. And it sounds 176 00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:42.559 great for football because you're on a chartered flight. But 177 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:47.919 there's some volleyball player, female volleyball player who's a scholar 178 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:50.960 athlete who has to take a psyche test on Thursday, 179 00:09:51.320 --> 00:09:54.600 and she traveled to Rutgers on Tuesday, and she took 180 00:09:54.679 --> 00:09:57.399 the red Eye back with three connections on the way 181 00:09:57.399 --> 00:10:01.000 back to UCLA, studied, took a test on Thursday, and 182 00:10:01.039 --> 00:10:04.240 then got on a plane and flew to Minnesota. It's 183 00:10:04.759 --> 00:10:09.919 just nuts. And until someone gets their act together and 184 00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:15.360 figures out that college football specifically, and I think maybe 185 00:10:15.399 --> 00:10:19.399 college football needs to be its own thing. Not own 186 00:10:19.480 --> 00:10:22.840 thing in the sense that it's not a sport tied 187 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:26.159 to college at you know, college and universities, but it 188 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:28.200 might need to be its own revenue model and have 189 00:10:28.279 --> 00:10:33.639 its own representation, both from an ownership standpoint all of 190 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:37.639 the universities and or private equity who has the opportunity 191 00:10:37.679 --> 00:10:40.600 to buy into some of these programs and then collectively 192 00:10:40.639 --> 00:10:43.399 bargain for the players, because it definitely is a goost. 193 00:10:43.399 --> 00:10:46.039 It's laying the golden egg, and it helps funds lots 194 00:10:46.039 --> 00:10:50.039 of other sports. And until this is all figured out, sadly, 195 00:10:50.519 --> 00:10:52.759 what it's made college football so great in America is 196 00:10:53.320 --> 00:10:56.159 just starting to disintegrate before our very own eyes. We 197 00:10:56.240 --> 00:10:59.279 certainly love it. I'm tuning in, I'm watching it, but 198 00:10:59.320 --> 00:11:02.000 it's it's hard as a fan. It's hard as a 199 00:11:02.039 --> 00:11:07.080 fan to feel something strongly about a team that there 200 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:10.000 was a young man who represented your school and next 201 00:11:10.039 --> 00:11:11.720 year is going to represent another school, and next year 202 00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:13.759 is going to represent another school, which, by the way, 203 00:11:13.799 --> 00:11:16.360 I thought you could only transfer once, and it seems 204 00:11:16.360 --> 00:11:18.679 guys now are transferring two, three, four times. It's just 205 00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:22.600 it just is absolutely crazy. But to answers question specifically, 206 00:11:23.000 --> 00:11:26.000 I think what's standing in its way is we need 207 00:11:26.039 --> 00:11:32.440 we need a Roger Goodell of college football to represent uh. 208 00:11:32.679 --> 00:11:37.039 I guess really the media or and or the universities collectively. 209 00:11:37.600 --> 00:11:41.080 And then we need to, you know, figure out a 210 00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:44.440 way to make sure the athletes are representative and representative. 211 00:11:44.600 --> 00:11:46.840 And I don't know if it has to be at 212 00:11:46.919 --> 00:11:50.480 quite the level that the NFL is, and maybe I'm 213 00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:55.679 being naive on that, but players, look, you know, there's 214 00:11:55.759 --> 00:11:59.240 lots of coaches and universities making tons of money, and 215 00:11:59.320 --> 00:12:02.919 certainly with matter of time before some of those resources 216 00:12:02.960 --> 00:12:05.320 need to be directed to players because some of them 217 00:12:05.360 --> 00:12:08.120 are maimed for life. Some of them get great educations 218 00:12:08.120 --> 00:12:10.519 and they move on and it was an unbelievable experience. 219 00:12:10.600 --> 00:12:13.679 And some of them are generating huge amounts of revenue 220 00:12:13.679 --> 00:12:16.440 for schools and coaches that are making millions and millions 221 00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:18.840 of dollars. So to get those guys a share of 222 00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:21.399 the pot, I don't think is necessarily a negative thing, 223 00:12:21.480 --> 00:12:24.879 but it's just now seems to be of the wild 224 00:12:24.960 --> 00:12:27.679 wild West with a system with no rules. 225 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:30.639 I wonder, And let's just one one more thing here. 226 00:12:30.559 --> 00:12:32.159 Then we can move on, because I want to ask 227 00:12:32.200 --> 00:12:34.480 you about the Bowl Game and colonial all that good stuff. 228 00:12:34.480 --> 00:12:37.039 But let's let's talk through this real quick to see 229 00:12:37.039 --> 00:12:39.919 if there's anything there, because I do think a game 230 00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:44.440 changer will be private equity money. You know, venture capitalists 231 00:12:44.519 --> 00:12:47.360 coming in to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in 232 00:12:47.399 --> 00:12:50.200 the sport. Is there a way that you could get 233 00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:55.279 enough you know, private equity venture capitalists in a room 234 00:12:55.480 --> 00:12:58.879 that all want to invest in this, and then because 235 00:12:58.919 --> 00:13:01.840 of the money there will willing to really give up 236 00:13:01.840 --> 00:13:04.120 front to programs and then say you can use this 237 00:13:04.240 --> 00:13:06.759 with nil, you can use this to upgrade facilities or 238 00:13:06.759 --> 00:13:07.679 pay your cut or whatever. 239 00:13:08.440 --> 00:13:10.080 And you know these guys you're in the space. 240 00:13:10.360 --> 00:13:12.080 The one thing that they will not do is invest 241 00:13:12.080 --> 00:13:14.159 the money unless they think they can get great dividends 242 00:13:14.200 --> 00:13:14.840 on the back end. 243 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:16.320 Exactly right. 244 00:13:16.360 --> 00:13:17.480 So if they're. 245 00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:20.559 Willing to step up and write these big checks, could 246 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:24.159 they as a group gardner enough power to pick a 247 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:26.639 Roger Goodell of college football and say this is the 248 00:13:26.639 --> 00:13:28.240 guy that's going to run this thing for us. 249 00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:29.080 Does that make sense? 250 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:32.559 Yeah? It does. I mean certainly being in the space. 251 00:13:32.919 --> 00:13:35.720 For those of you who don't know that, then I 252 00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:37.879 work for private equity firm. Actually, my partners in the 253 00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:39.679 Hall of Fame in the NFL and in the Hall 254 00:13:39.679 --> 00:13:43.639 of Fame football, Steve Young and our partners in a 255 00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:47.279 private equity firm, Hunston Gay Global capitalis GGC, and we 256 00:13:47.320 --> 00:13:49.480 have lots of money under management. We are looking We 257 00:13:49.840 --> 00:13:53.559 have a thematic sourcing initiative within our firm to look 258 00:13:53.600 --> 00:14:01.639 for sports athletic sports centric businesses to invest in, right, 259 00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:04.679 It's something that is important to us as individuals and 260 00:14:05.080 --> 00:14:08.559 as a firm, and so we're trying to find ways 261 00:14:08.600 --> 00:14:11.600 to put money to work in professional athletics. All that 262 00:14:11.639 --> 00:14:15.320 being said, the model in college athletics is unique. I'm 263 00:14:15.440 --> 00:14:20.080 with you kind of from a macro viewpoint, But how 264 00:14:20.120 --> 00:14:22.960 do you make that work when some of these teams 265 00:14:22.960 --> 00:14:27.120 are owned by states, either owned by state institutions, owned 266 00:14:27.159 --> 00:14:30.960 by the University of Utah takes a lot of state money, 267 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:35.279 And I don't know how what the ownership looks like 268 00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:38.759 in the University of Utah, how that was set up, 269 00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:42.159 what the charter was when the University of Utah was established, 270 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:48.960 And I don't know what hurdles that impose on private equity, right. 271 00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:51.360 I mean, like you said, private equity is kind of 272 00:14:51.519 --> 00:14:54.159 is what it says. It is. It's taking private dollars 273 00:14:54.200 --> 00:14:57.240 investing in an asset, figuring out a way to create 274 00:14:57.320 --> 00:14:59.799 value in that asset and get a return for the shareholders. 275 00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:02.440 And that, to me, I think is going to be 276 00:15:02.519 --> 00:15:08.360 complicated based on the landscape of college football. But conceptually 277 00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:11.960 what you're saying do I agree with absolutely, And I'm 278 00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:14.080 not sure. I don't know if it's private equity. I 279 00:15:14.120 --> 00:15:18.120 hate to say it. I'm a capitalist. I believe in 280 00:15:18.200 --> 00:15:21.639 the free enterprise and free market system. I don't I 281 00:15:21.679 --> 00:15:26.000 believe less government's better. I do think potentially one way 282 00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:29.039 to get control of this crazy monster is to have 283 00:15:29.879 --> 00:15:32.759 the federal government step in in one way, shape or 284 00:15:32.840 --> 00:15:34.919 form or the other, and then to act laws. Because 285 00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:37.200 some of these school like I said, these schools are 286 00:15:37.639 --> 00:15:39.799 federally owned, state owned. Some of them are a hundred 287 00:15:39.879 --> 00:15:42.720 years old, one hundred and fifty, two hundred years old 288 00:15:42.759 --> 00:15:46.639 institutions that I'm not sure they would be willing to 289 00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:49.000 take private equity money. Although they take lots of private 290 00:15:49.039 --> 00:15:54.240 equity money and to fund endowments. I don't know if 291 00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:56.519 they're going to take private equity money to give up 292 00:15:56.559 --> 00:16:00.519 ownership in an asset that's some two hundred year old 293 00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:06.679 educational institution is owns. So I don't know, Spence, I 294 00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:09.600 don't know how to divvy it up. But I do 295 00:16:09.759 --> 00:16:15.240 think what you're saying resonates and it has to happen. 296 00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:18.279 And whether it's d I saw Dion on a clip 297 00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:21.360 the other day on TikTok or Instagram or Facebook or 298 00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:24.240 somewhere on a reel I saw Nick Saban. Everyone's saying 299 00:16:24.279 --> 00:16:27.200 the same same thing. Chip Kelly said the same thing, right. 300 00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:30.399 It's it's like, look, guys, we're generating a lot of money. 301 00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:32.320 Let's figure out how much money goes to the school. 302 00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:34.200 Let's figure out how much money goes to the players. 303 00:16:34.360 --> 00:16:38.159 Let's divvy that up. Let's have some guardrails this money. 304 00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:42.120 You know, and I'm a believer that, you know, green 305 00:16:42.159 --> 00:16:44.480 Bay gets the same amount of Dallas, and Dallas gets 306 00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:46.080 the same amount as the New York Giants, and the 307 00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:47.679 New York Giants get the same amount as the LA 308 00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:50.879 Rams And that makes it work, right. Any given Sunday 309 00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:55.360 wasn't some crazy marketing, you know, Slovan. It was to 310 00:16:55.399 --> 00:17:01.559 create an even system. It was to create parody. And 311 00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:04.039 I think that's what we want in college football. We 312 00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:06.720 certainly want it regionally. I don't think anyone at the 313 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:09.279 at Oregon State wakes up on a Saturday and says, 314 00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:11.640 I wonder what's happening in at Georgia Tech today. I 315 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:13.720 sure hope they win or I sure hope they lose. Right, 316 00:17:13.759 --> 00:17:17.400 I mean, what's made college football so great are regional 317 00:17:17.440 --> 00:17:21.519 and conference rivalries that are part of this global, you know, 318 00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:24.480 American landscape of college football. I mean, it's kind of 319 00:17:24.519 --> 00:17:27.799 all part of this giant quilt, but there's patches that 320 00:17:28.200 --> 00:17:31.440 are more relevant to certain people. And Oregon State cares 321 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:35.880 about Oregon and Washington and and you know, cal down 322 00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:38.480 the road, at least they used to. And Michigan is 323 00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:40.400 always going to care about Ohio State. No status State 324 00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:42.799 is always gonna care about Michigan because they border each other. 325 00:17:43.079 --> 00:17:45.440 And b is always gonna care about Utah, and Utah 326 00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:48.039 is always gonna care about BYU. And the se schools 327 00:17:48.039 --> 00:17:50.599 are the same. And so let's figure out a way 328 00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:54.599 to get the University of Tennessee the same amount of 329 00:17:54.680 --> 00:17:58.359 money as Oregon State. And some people roll their eyes 330 00:17:58.400 --> 00:18:00.599 at that, but I think that's what makes to work. 331 00:18:01.599 --> 00:18:03.400 I mean, right now, the big ten schools, they all 332 00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:05.559 make the same. No one seems to roll their eyes 333 00:18:05.599 --> 00:18:09.279 at Rutgers, who is not great at anything, is getting 334 00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:13.920 the same cash payout that Ohio State's getting, right, I mean, 335 00:18:13.960 --> 00:18:16.319 they make that work because they all need each other. 336 00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:18.680 They need each other in that conference. And it's the 337 00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:21.559 same with the SEC. Vanderbilt has been getting their share, 338 00:18:22.039 --> 00:18:24.200 the same share that Alabama, and George has been getting 339 00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:27.720 in the SEC since they've been divving up those cash, 340 00:18:28.279 --> 00:18:30.839 those funds for media rites, and so I just don't 341 00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:34.119 understand why we can't do that on a global landscape. 342 00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:36.359 And maybe it's shrinks. Maybe it's instead of one hundred 343 00:18:36.359 --> 00:18:38.079 and thirty teams or one hundred and thirty five teams 344 00:18:38.119 --> 00:18:41.119 or whatever it is. Maybe there's a group of five 345 00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:44.839 and there's a different group. And whether that's eighty or ninety, 346 00:18:44.920 --> 00:18:47.279 or sixty or or one hundred, I don't know what 347 00:18:47.319 --> 00:18:49.680 the number is. But right now, there's a lot of 348 00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:52.000 money generated for the schools in the Big ten. There's 349 00:18:52.039 --> 00:18:53.759 a lot of money generated for the schools in the SEC. 350 00:18:53.839 --> 00:18:56.240 There's a lot of money generated for the schools in 351 00:18:56.279 --> 00:18:57.480 the Big twelve. And there used to be a lot 352 00:18:57.480 --> 00:18:59.559 of money generated for the Pack twelve. And the pat 353 00:18:59.599 --> 00:19:02.799 twelve just had horrible leadership and people lost their minds 354 00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:05.359 and they said, look for an extra ten million dollars. 355 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:10.079 I'm willing to forego our unbelievable history as a conference, 356 00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:12.920 and I'm going to join a conference that means nothing 357 00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:15.000 to us. And then we have to travel all across 358 00:19:15.079 --> 00:19:18.839 the country for a few extra dollars, So why not 359 00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:21.240 find a way to make the pie bigger? And that's 360 00:19:21.279 --> 00:19:24.160 what the NFL has done. Everyone gets their slice and 361 00:19:24.759 --> 00:19:27.880 they're unified. They want to put the best product forward. 362 00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:31.119 I mean, there's a great acquired podcast if you're a 363 00:19:31.160 --> 00:19:34.640 podcast cast or spence about how they did it and 364 00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:36.759 why they did it, and it was entertainment and it 365 00:19:36.920 --> 00:19:39.279 was a way to create a product. And the product 366 00:19:39.400 --> 00:19:42.559 was the NFL. And our product is college football and 367 00:19:42.680 --> 00:19:45.799 people love it and let's not kill it. And we're 368 00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:49.559 freaking killing it because we don't have someone driving the bus. 369 00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:52.200 And it just bums me out a lot. 370 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:52.799 Of good stuff there. 371 00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:54.880 It feels like you guys need to get involved because 372 00:19:54.920 --> 00:19:56.839 I know life is really good for Steve, but you 373 00:19:56.880 --> 00:19:59.279 could do worse as far as the college football commissioner, 374 00:19:59.319 --> 00:19:59.920 the Steve Young. 375 00:20:00.039 --> 00:20:03.680 Yeah, yeah, life is good for Steven. Steve. Steve is 376 00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:06.680 very smart, he said. I mean, I mean I'm certainly biased, 377 00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:09.319 but I mean I studied my a off for the 378 00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:12.000 l SAT and got eighty four percent and I don't 379 00:20:12.039 --> 00:20:13.640 think he's studied once and he was in the ninety 380 00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:17.480 nine percent. He's he's a smart guy. He's connected, he's 381 00:20:17.079 --> 00:20:21.519 he's respected, and he sees the he sees what the 382 00:20:21.559 --> 00:20:24.599 opportunity is and he's compete at the highest level of 383 00:20:24.640 --> 00:20:26.680 both and and you know, and maybe it's him, and 384 00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:29.400 maybe it's a panel. Maybe it's him and Nick Saban 385 00:20:29.480 --> 00:20:31.519 and a few other players. I mean, people that have 386 00:20:31.599 --> 00:20:35.160 been around and experienced what they needed to experience to 387 00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:40.279 understand how to protect a really strong American asset that 388 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:42.839 the that you know, a lot of people that live 389 00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:45.880 in this country care about. And before we go too 390 00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:48.440 far down the path, we we get it back and 391 00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:50.640 headed in the right direction. And I'm hopeful that's going 392 00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:53.039 to happen. I mean, I just hear Nick Saban now 393 00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:56.000 on game day and and he's a voice, he's got 394 00:20:56.039 --> 00:20:58.920 a platform now and he talks about it. And you know, 395 00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:01.359 social media, if any thing, has created a platform and 396 00:21:01.839 --> 00:21:05.839 an opportunity for people to share their opinions. And most 397 00:21:05.839 --> 00:21:07.680 of the people that I see share their opinions kind 398 00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:10.559 of are saying the same thing you're saying, sence. You know, 399 00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:13.599 they want to fix this before it gets too late. 400 00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:16.119 Let's move over now to what's going on to your 401 00:21:16.119 --> 00:21:19.279