Speaker 1: We got Pittsburgh and Toledo going on right now.
Speaker 2: The game above Sports Bowl Bowl Season b YU is
Speaker 2: going to take on Colorado coming up on Saturday. Should
Speaker 2: be one of the best non CFP Bowl games. That's
Speaker 2: gonna be a five to thirty kicktime on ABC and
Speaker 2: the Alamo Bowl. Right now, Colorado is a four point favorite.
Speaker 2: Excited to catch up with our next guest. He joined
Speaker 2: the show a few times back in the day when
Speaker 2: I was doing with Gordo. He is a legend, played
Speaker 2: at Brigham Young, played little NFL football. Great to have
Speaker 2: Jim Herman on the drive on a Thursday. Jim, Merry
Speaker 2: Christmas season. How are you, sir?
Speaker 3: Merry Christmas to you, Spence. Thank you, Yeah, good for
Speaker 3: having me good. Things are good. Got through Christmas, survived
Speaker 3: and enjoy it and excited for the new year. I
Speaker 3: can't believe it's twenty twenty five already.
Speaker 1: I know, man, I know. What does Christmas look like
Speaker 1: in the Herman household?
Speaker 3: Man, it's great. I got three boys. They're all married.
Speaker 3: I actually hard to believe. I actually have grandkids, as
Speaker 3: crazy as that is. Wow, So I get to see them.
Speaker 3: I got a couple kids living in La right now
Speaker 3: building a business and everyone's home and so we're having
Speaker 3: a great time, family and fun and all sorts of
Speaker 3: great things. And I grew up in Wisconsin, so I
Speaker 3: actually have some Wisconsin family that owns a place up
Speaker 3: in Deer Valley and they're coming out. My mother in
Speaker 3: law's coming. So yeah, good things.
Speaker 1: Very nice. Great to hear, great to hear.
Speaker 2: So I started the show off today, Jim with just
Speaker 2: what I perceived to be a broken sport, albeit a
Speaker 2: great product in college football. And you know, it's it's
Speaker 2: insane to me that essentially what we're dealing with is
Speaker 2: free agency during the year, right, So you have coaches
Speaker 2: that are trying to coach their team up for bowl
Speaker 2: games or CFP games to try to win national championships,
Speaker 2: and then after practice they've got to run collateral damage
Speaker 2: to make sure their players aren't being contacted by agents.
Speaker 2: And so many teams that are still playing, including Brigham Young,
Speaker 2: have several players that are in the portal while the
Speaker 2: season is still going on.
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on this.
Speaker 2: Dynamic, specifically, the college football essentially has free agency wall
Speaker 2: games are being played.
Speaker 3: That's crazy. Actually, I agree with you, Spent. I actually
Speaker 3: think it's worse than free agency because free agency has
Speaker 3: some rules and some guardrails, and there's actually seems to
Speaker 3: be a method to the manness. Certainly at the NFL level,
Speaker 3: people change teams. At that level, it's a job, and
Speaker 3: they're looking up for opportunities and places to go enhance
Speaker 3: their careers. Weirdly, that's trickled down to college football, but
Speaker 3: there just seems to be no rules for for sport
Speaker 3: that I grew up in and was around for years.
Speaker 3: My brother played college football, obviously, lots of friends of mine,
Speaker 3: and you know, as long as I can remember, until
Speaker 3: the you know, real, not too distant future, was the
Speaker 3: strict guidelines of the NCAAA. My gosh, you couldn't get
Speaker 3: an ice cream cone. You couldn't you couldn't even think
Speaker 3: about transferring unless you've sat out a year, And there
Speaker 3: are all these rules and restrictions, and now it just
Speaker 3: seems to be a total free for all, which I
Speaker 3: don't really understand. I don't know why someone hasn't stepped
Speaker 3: in there. There used to seem to be a governing
Speaker 3: body that would try to curtail some of these things,
Speaker 3: but now it just seems to Every year the rules change,
Speaker 3: and you know, maybe there's there's the Wizard of Oz
Speaker 3: out there that's making it all work in some chaotic
Speaker 3: form or fashion. But I'm with you, it seems to
Speaker 3: absolutely be crazy. I mean, krewe wakeleet, who I think
Speaker 3: is you know, one of DA's best defensive backs is
Speaker 3: in the portal, not going to play in the game
Speaker 3: that hurts against an unbelievable Colorado team that throws the
Speaker 3: ball and has crazy skilled positions and and is really
Speaker 3: apt at testing defensive backfields all around the country. And
Speaker 3: now VAU is at a disadvantage. And it seems, weirdly,
Speaker 3: it seems Colorado's kind of kept it all together. I'm
Speaker 3: not as informed as to the comings and goings over
Speaker 3: there on their team, but from the macro landscape of
Speaker 3: college football, it seems to be a mess. And I
Speaker 3: keep hoping. I really defer to you know, certainly I'm
Speaker 3: influenced by the NFL model one because I think it works.
Speaker 3: I grew up in a state where the Green Bay
Speaker 3: Packers are in a tiny little town smaller than Logan, Utah,
Speaker 3: and they fill a stadium of ninety thousand people, and
Speaker 3: there's They're the only way that can survive is because
Speaker 3: their central leadership with a game plan to make sure
Speaker 3: that all the teams within the league played by the
Speaker 3: same rules and have the opportunity to compete whether you're
Speaker 3: in a big market, small market, big school, small school.
Speaker 3: And they've done a really good job of putting what
Speaker 3: I think is a framework that, based on where college
Speaker 3: football is going, could could work at the college football level.
Speaker 3: But until their central leadership in college football, you know,
Speaker 3: getting back to the free agency question, I don't know how.
Speaker 3: I don't know how it changes because the Big Twelve
Speaker 3: kills about the Big Twelve, the Pac Ten. I'm sorry
Speaker 3: that the SEC cares about the SEC. The Big ten
Speaker 3: cares about the Big Ten, and someone's supposed to be
Speaker 3: caring about you know, college football as a whole, and
Speaker 3: I don't know who that is because it just seems
Speaker 3: to be running crazy, crazy wild.
Speaker 2: I wonder what your thoughts are, gim on what could
Speaker 2: be next, because I wholehrdly agree and I've talked on
Speaker 2: the show a lot about rip the band aid off
Speaker 2: and just use the pro model, Okay, allow the players
Speaker 2: to unionize collectively, bargain with the people in charge, and
Speaker 2: that way you know, I'm not saying they sign four
Speaker 2: or five year contracts, but sign contracts that you're gonna
Speaker 2: be with the program for a couple of years, maybe
Speaker 2: with an option after that, and that way you don't
Speaker 2: have to rebuild your program every single year if you
Speaker 2: know you have a player for two or three years
Speaker 2: or something like it.
Speaker 1: It seems like coaches are for it.
Speaker 2: It seems like players would be for it because then
Speaker 2: the contracts could be legal and above board with.
Speaker 1: Right now, there's no regulation.
Speaker 2: If you want to pay a quarterback a billion dollars
Speaker 2: to play at BYU, you can pay them a billion dollars.
Speaker 1: So move to the pro model.
Speaker 2: I know there will be unfortunate collateral damage of athletic
Speaker 2: departments that don't have the same amount of revenue.
Speaker 1: Because football is the cash cow.
Speaker 2: But I also believe Jim, at some point and you
Speaker 2: exist in some of these spaces right now as well,
Speaker 2: private equity guys are going to get involved here, and
Speaker 2: they're gonna start buying college football teams, buying stakes, and
Speaker 2: college football teams infuse the programs with money up front,
Speaker 2: with the promise that their investment will pay incredible dividends.
Speaker 2: Once this pro model becomes a reality. But in your opinion,
Speaker 2: you're a smart guy. What do you think is standing
Speaker 2: in the way now of college football just getting this done?
Speaker 2: Because I believe it would solve the majority of the
Speaker 2: issues that face the sport right now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, couldn't agree more Spence. I mean, you and I
Speaker 3: are fully aligned. What I think standing in place is
Speaker 3: just to echo what I said, it's central leadership. I
Speaker 3: you know, lover hate Roger Goodell. He represents the owners right.
Speaker 3: And I was a union member when I was in
Speaker 3: the NFL. I paid my union dues. We had representatives,
Speaker 3: We talked, we met, We discussed issues that were relevant
Speaker 3: to us as players, and we relied on our representatives
Speaker 3: to be union to you know, speak for us as
Speaker 3: a union voice to the owners when they got together
Speaker 3: and collectively bargained. I was injured right before the strike here,
Speaker 3: way back in maybe seven eighty eight. So I played
Speaker 3: eighty five eighty six, then got injured. Then there was
Speaker 3: a strike here, and then I actually got a couple
Speaker 3: surgeries and then actually signed after the second collective bargaining
Speaker 3: agreement with the LA Raiders. And so I saw it
Speaker 3: and I live it now. We started an NFL alumni
Speaker 3: chapter here and it's it's amazing what's changed and what's
Speaker 3: transpired for X players. But certainly from a current player
Speaker 3: standpoint and someone who's in the league, there's rules, there's representation,
Speaker 3: there's a there's a plan, but it only comes with
Speaker 3: central leadership. In my opinion, I just don't as of
Speaker 3: right now, the SEC is so powerful and the Big
Speaker 3: ten's not far behind, or vice versa. I'm not actually
Speaker 3: sure who generates more on a perching basis, but weirdly,
Speaker 3: as a conference they kind of collectively bargain. So the
Speaker 3: way I understand that the Big Ten goes out and
Speaker 3: negotiates rights, media rights, and creates content, and that content's
Speaker 3: distributed and they're paid by the distributors of the content,
Speaker 3: and then that is equally divided amongst the schools in
Speaker 3: the Big Ten and the SEC. So they're doing it
Speaker 3: on a conference basis. But people need to understand. And
Speaker 3: I wasn't a member of the PAC twelve or part
Speaker 3: of the school that was a member of the PAC twelve,
Speaker 3: but this is the nation's favorite sport. It spans from
Speaker 3: coast to coast, and I think it's a travesty. What
Speaker 3: happened on the Pact to the PAC twelve and on
Speaker 3: the West coast. But someone needs to look out for that.
Speaker 3: There should not be two teams in LA that get
Speaker 3: on a plane on a weekly basis and fly to
Speaker 3: Maryland or Happy Valley, Pennsylvania to participate. And it sounds
Speaker 3: great for football because you're on a chartered flight. But
Speaker 3: there's some volleyball player, female volleyball player who's a scholar
Speaker 3: athlete who has to take a psyche test on Thursday,
Speaker 3: and she traveled to Rutgers on Tuesday, and she took
Speaker 3: the red Eye back with three connections on the way
Speaker 3: back to UCLA, studied, took a test on Thursday, and
Speaker 3: then got on a plane and flew to Minnesota. It's
Speaker 3: just nuts. And until someone gets their act together and
Speaker 3: figures out that college football specifically, and I think maybe
Speaker 3: college football needs to be its own thing. Not own
Speaker 3: thing in the sense that it's not a sport tied
Speaker 3: to college at you know, college and universities, but it
Speaker 3: might need to be its own revenue model and have
Speaker 3: its own representation, both from an ownership standpoint all of
Speaker 3: the universities and or private equity who has the opportunity
Speaker 3: to buy into some of these programs and then collectively
Speaker 3: bargain for the players, because it definitely is a goost.
Speaker 3: It's laying the golden egg, and it helps funds lots
Speaker 3: of other sports. And until this is all figured out, sadly,
Speaker 3: what it's made college football so great in America is
Speaker 3: just starting to disintegrate before our very own eyes. We
Speaker 3: certainly love it. I'm tuning in, I'm watching it, but
Speaker 3: it's it's hard as a fan. It's hard as a
Speaker 3: fan to feel something strongly about a team that there
Speaker 3: was a young man who represented your school and next
Speaker 3: year is going to represent another school, and next year
Speaker 3: is going to represent another school, which, by the way,
Speaker 3: I thought you could only transfer once, and it seems
Speaker 3: guys now are transferring two, three, four times. It's just
Speaker 3: it just is absolutely crazy. But to answers question specifically,
Speaker 3: I think what's standing in its way is we need
Speaker 3: we need a Roger Goodell of college football to represent uh.
Speaker 3: I guess really the media or and or the universities collectively.
Speaker 3: And then we need to, you know, figure out a
Speaker 3: way to make sure the athletes are representative and representative.
Speaker 3: And I don't know if it has to be at
Speaker 3: quite the level that the NFL is, and maybe I'm
Speaker 3: being naive on that, but players, look, you know, there's
Speaker 3: lots of coaches and universities making tons of money, and
Speaker 3: certainly with matter of time before some of those resources
Speaker 3: need to be directed to players because some of them
Speaker 3: are maimed for life. Some of them get great educations
Speaker 3: and they move on and it was an unbelievable experience.
Speaker 3: And some of them are generating huge amounts of revenue
Speaker 3: for schools and coaches that are making millions and millions
Speaker 3: of dollars. So to get those guys a share of
Speaker 3: the pot, I don't think is necessarily a negative thing,
Speaker 3: but it's just now seems to be of the wild
Speaker 3: wild West with a system with no rules.
Speaker 1: I wonder, And let's just one one more thing here.
Speaker 2: Then we can move on, because I want to ask
Speaker 2: you about the Bowl Game and colonial all that good stuff.
Speaker 2: But let's let's talk through this real quick to see
Speaker 2: if there's anything there, because I do think a game
Speaker 2: changer will be private equity money. You know, venture capitalists
Speaker 2: coming in to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in
Speaker 2: the sport. Is there a way that you could get
Speaker 2: enough you know, private equity venture capitalists in a room
Speaker 2: that all want to invest in this, and then because
Speaker 2: of the money there will willing to really give up
Speaker 2: front to programs and then say you can use this
Speaker 2: with nil, you can use this to upgrade facilities or
Speaker 2: pay your cut or whatever.
Speaker 1: And you know these guys you're in the space.
Speaker 2: The one thing that they will not do is invest
Speaker 2: the money unless they think they can get great dividends
Speaker 2: on the back end.
Speaker 3: Exactly right.
Speaker 1: So if they're.
Speaker 2: Willing to step up and write these big checks, could
Speaker 2: they as a group gardner enough power to pick a
Speaker 2: Roger Goodell of college football and say this is the
Speaker 2: guy that's going to run this thing for us.
Speaker 1: Does that make sense?
Speaker 3: Yeah? It does. I mean certainly being in the space.
Speaker 3: For those of you who don't know that, then I
Speaker 3: work for private equity firm. Actually, my partners in the
Speaker 3: Hall of Fame in the NFL and in the Hall
Speaker 3: of Fame football, Steve Young and our partners in a
Speaker 3: private equity firm, Hunston Gay Global capitalis GGC, and we
Speaker 3: have lots of money under management. We are looking We
Speaker 3: have a thematic sourcing initiative within our firm to look
Speaker 3: for sports athletic sports centric businesses to invest in, right,
Speaker 3: It's something that is important to us as individuals and
Speaker 3: as a firm, and so we're trying to find ways
Speaker 3: to put money to work in professional athletics. All that
Speaker 3: being said, the model in college athletics is unique. I'm
Speaker 3: with you kind of from a macro viewpoint, But how
Speaker 3: do you make that work when some of these teams
Speaker 3: are owned by states, either owned by state institutions, owned
Speaker 3: by the University of Utah takes a lot of state money,
Speaker 3: And I don't know how what the ownership looks like
Speaker 3: in the University of Utah, how that was set up,
Speaker 3: what the charter was when the University of Utah was established,
Speaker 3: And I don't know what hurdles that impose on private equity, right.
Speaker 3: I mean, like you said, private equity is kind of
Speaker 3: is what it says. It is. It's taking private dollars
Speaker 3: investing in an asset, figuring out a way to create
Speaker 3: value in that asset and get a return for the shareholders.
Speaker 3: And that, to me, I think is going to be
Speaker 3: complicated based on the landscape of college football. But conceptually
Speaker 3: what you're saying do I agree with absolutely, And I'm
Speaker 3: not sure. I don't know if it's private equity. I
Speaker 3: hate to say it. I'm a capitalist. I believe in
Speaker 3: the free enterprise and free market system. I don't I
Speaker 3: believe less government's better. I do think potentially one way
Speaker 3: to get control of this crazy monster is to have
Speaker 3: the federal government step in in one way, shape or
Speaker 3: form or the other, and then to act laws. Because
Speaker 3: some of these school like I said, these schools are
Speaker 3: federally owned, state owned. Some of them are a hundred
Speaker 3: years old, one hundred and fifty, two hundred years old
Speaker 3: institutions that I'm not sure they would be willing to
Speaker 3: take private equity money. Although they take lots of private
Speaker 3: equity money and to fund endowments. I don't know if
Speaker 3: they're going to take private equity money to give up
Speaker 3: ownership in an asset that's some two hundred year old
Speaker 3: educational institution is owns. So I don't know, Spence, I
Speaker 3: don't know how to divvy it up. But I do
Speaker 3: think what you're saying resonates and it has to happen.
Speaker 3: And whether it's d I saw Dion on a clip
Speaker 3: the other day on TikTok or Instagram or Facebook or
Speaker 3: somewhere on a reel I saw Nick Saban. Everyone's saying
Speaker 3: the same same thing. Chip Kelly said the same thing, right.
Speaker 3: It's it's like, look, guys, we're generating a lot of money.
Speaker 3: Let's figure out how much money goes to the school.
Speaker 3: Let's figure out how much money goes to the players.
Speaker 3: Let's divvy that up. Let's have some guardrails this money.
Speaker 3: You know, and I'm a believer that, you know, green
Speaker 3: Bay gets the same amount of Dallas, and Dallas gets
Speaker 3: the same amount as the New York Giants, and the
Speaker 3: New York Giants get the same amount as the LA
Speaker 3: Rams And that makes it work, right. Any given Sunday
Speaker 3: wasn't some crazy marketing, you know, Slovan. It was to
Speaker 3: create an even system. It was to create parody. And
Speaker 3: I think that's what we want in college football. We
Speaker 3: certainly want it regionally. I don't think anyone at the
Speaker 3: at Oregon State wakes up on a Saturday and says,
Speaker 3: I wonder what's happening in at Georgia Tech today. I
Speaker 3: sure hope they win or I sure hope they lose. Right,
Speaker 3: I mean, what's made college football so great are regional
Speaker 3: and conference rivalries that are part of this global, you know,
Speaker 3: American landscape of college football. I mean, it's kind of
Speaker 3: all part of this giant quilt, but there's patches that
Speaker 3: are more relevant to certain people. And Oregon State cares
Speaker 3: about Oregon and Washington and and you know, cal down
Speaker 3: the road, at least they used to. And Michigan is
Speaker 3: always going to care about Ohio State. No status State
Speaker 3: is always gonna care about Michigan because they border each other.
Speaker 3: And b is always gonna care about Utah, and Utah
Speaker 3: is always gonna care about BYU. And the se schools
Speaker 3: are the same. And so let's figure out a way
Speaker 3: to get the University of Tennessee the same amount of
Speaker 3: money as Oregon State. And some people roll their eyes
Speaker 3: at that, but I think that's what makes to work.
Speaker 3: I mean, right now, the big ten schools, they all
Speaker 3: make the same. No one seems to roll their eyes
Speaker 3: at Rutgers, who is not great at anything, is getting
Speaker 3: the same cash payout that Ohio State's getting, right, I mean,
Speaker 3: they make that work because they all need each other.
Speaker 3: They need each other in that conference. And it's the
Speaker 3: same with the SEC. Vanderbilt has been getting their share,
Speaker 3: the same share that Alabama, and George has been getting
Speaker 3: in the SEC since they've been divving up those cash,
Speaker 3: those funds for media rites, and so I just don't
Speaker 3: understand why we can't do that on a global landscape.
Speaker 3: And maybe it's shrinks. Maybe it's instead of one hundred
Speaker 3: and thirty teams or one hundred and thirty five teams
Speaker 3: or whatever it is. Maybe there's a group of five
Speaker 3: and there's a different group. And whether that's eighty or ninety,
Speaker 3: or sixty or or one hundred, I don't know what
Speaker 3: the number is. But right now, there's a lot of
Speaker 3: money generated for the schools in the Big ten. There's
Speaker 3: a lot of money generated for the schools in the SEC.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of money generated for the schools in
Speaker 3: the Big twelve. And there used to be a lot
Speaker 3: of money generated for the Pack twelve. And the pat
Speaker 3: twelve just had horrible leadership and people lost their minds
Speaker 3: and they said, look for an extra ten million dollars.
Speaker 3: I'm willing to forego our unbelievable history as a conference,
Speaker 3: and I'm going to join a conference that means nothing
Speaker 3: to us. And then we have to travel all across
Speaker 3: the country for a few extra dollars, So why not
Speaker 3: find a way to make the pie bigger? And that's
Speaker 3: what the NFL has done. Everyone gets their slice and
Speaker 3: they're unified. They want to put the best product forward.
Speaker 3: I mean, there's a great acquired podcast if you're a
Speaker 3: podcast cast or spence about how they did it and
Speaker 3: why they did it, and it was entertainment and it
Speaker 3: was a way to create a product. And the product
Speaker 3: was the NFL. And our product is college football and
Speaker 3: people love it and let's not kill it. And we're
Speaker 3: freaking killing it because we don't have someone driving the bus.
Speaker 3: And it just bums me out a lot.
Speaker 1: Of good stuff there.
Speaker 2: It feels like you guys need to get involved because
Speaker 2: I know life is really good for Steve, but you
Speaker 2: could do worse as far as the college football commissioner,
Speaker 2: the Steve Young.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, life is good for Steven. Steve. Steve is
Speaker 3: very smart, he said. I mean, I mean I'm certainly biased,
Speaker 3: but I mean I studied my a off for the
Speaker 3: l SAT and got eighty four percent and I don't
Speaker 3: think he's studied once and he was in the ninety
Speaker 3: nine percent. He's he's a smart guy. He's connected, he's
Speaker 3: he's respected, and he sees the he sees what the
Speaker 3: opportunity is and he's compete at the highest level of
Speaker 3: both and and you know, and maybe it's him, and
Speaker 3: maybe it's a panel. Maybe it's him and Nick Saban
Speaker 3: and a few other players. I mean, people that have
Speaker 3: been around and experienced what they needed to experience to
Speaker 3: understand how to protect a really strong American asset that
Speaker 3: the that you know, a lot of people that live
Speaker 3: in this country care about. And before we go too
Speaker 3: far down the path, we we get it back and
Speaker 3: headed in the right direction. And I'm hopeful that's going
Speaker 3: to happen. I mean, I just hear Nick Saban now
Speaker 3: on game day and and he's a voice, he's got
Speaker 3: a platform now and he talks about it. And you know,
Speaker 3: social media, if any thing, has created a platform and
Speaker 3: an opportunity for people to share their opinions. And most
Speaker 3: of the people that I see share their opinions kind
Speaker 3: of are saying the same thing you're saying, sence. You know,
Speaker 3: they want to fix this before it gets too late.
Speaker 2: Let's move over now to what's going on to your
Speaker 2: alma mater. And you know, as soon as the NIO,
Speaker 2: as soon as it became a reality when the NCAA
Speaker 2: was basically thrown out of court and told that you're
Speaker 2: a serial anti trust violator, get out of my courtroom
Speaker 2: and go figure it out, and suddenly the landscape started
Speaker 2: to shift. On the show, I said that day, this
Speaker 2: feels like it could be really good news for BYU,
Speaker 2: who you know at the time independence you know, they
Speaker 2: were kind of looking for a home. Then the Big
Speaker 2: Twelve invite happens, and you know, Killani year two in
Speaker 2: the Big Twelve wins ten games and nearly wins the
Speaker 2: whole thing. And you know, down at Steve's golf tournament,
Speaker 2: I caught up with Brian Santiago. We talked about all
Speaker 2: of the really cool initiatives they have in place, and
Speaker 2: right now it feels like BYU's collective or whatever they're
Speaker 2: calling it, is in a really healthy spot in a
Speaker 2: way that Utah's isn't. As of now, they lock in
Speaker 2: Aj Debantsa and Jim. I don't know if you've seen
Speaker 2: this kid play my Goodness like he is for real.
Speaker 1: So it feels like b YU.
Speaker 2: Right now, with their collective and their nil initiatives, have
Speaker 2: figured some things out and it's going in the right direction.
Speaker 2: Can you shed some light on the mechanisms about how
Speaker 2: they've been able to kind of make this work.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, and you know, it's interesting to hear
Speaker 3: your perspective, and I totally agree. One is, I think
Speaker 3: what by has figured a bunch of things out. R
Speaker 3: One is, you know, it's it's good to be liked
Speaker 3: and it's good to like other people, and I think
Speaker 3: BAU has figured out that. Look, you know, I went
Speaker 3: to b what you was a non member kid from Wisconsin.
Speaker 3: I didn't know any LDS people back where I grew up.
Speaker 3: I had never heard of the OYU. I went there,
Speaker 3: I had an unbelievable experience. I was part of a
Speaker 3: fraternity that was pretty diverse and and so you know,
Speaker 3: it was I mean, it was still part of the
Speaker 3: greater BYU community, which which actually I am embraced and
Speaker 3: figured out, this is going to be really cool. Like
Speaker 3: it's something I don't know about and I'm willing to
Speaker 3: learn and I'm excited to kind of, you know, expand
Speaker 3: my horizons and be part of a community that I
Speaker 3: didn't grow up in. And I think do as doing
Speaker 3: the same thing kind of on a broader landscape, which
Speaker 3: is college athletics, right, They're they're looking to bring people
Speaker 3: in from other universities and other places. I mean, my goodness,
Speaker 3: they have a you know, they're starting quarterbacks, a Jewish
Speaker 3: young man who's embraced being a Jew at BYU and
Speaker 3: what that means, all the positives around that whole scenario.
Speaker 3: And I think I have not had a chance to
Speaker 3: see an age, but my goodness, I just hear unbelievable things.
Speaker 3: I have a lot of friends certainly involved at BYU
Speaker 3: and the basketball community, both collegiately and otherwise. It's just
Speaker 3: just tell me, this kid is just unbelievable. And I
Speaker 3: think this is where NIL really paid off. And I'm
Speaker 3: not talking about by U Nil because the way I
Speaker 3: understand it, and it could be mistaken, but I've got
Speaker 3: some pretty deep sources, and I got a cut some
Speaker 3: pretty good information. He was going to get a vast
Speaker 3: majority of the money that everyone sees that dollar figure,
Speaker 3: whether it's seven million or eight million, or six and
Speaker 3: a half or eight and a half or whatever the
Speaker 3: number is, the vast majority of that is coming from
Speaker 3: true NIL, right, which is what it was supposed to be, right,
Speaker 3: A big chunk coming from Nike. And oh, by the way,
Speaker 3: you know, when he was on HISPN and he made
Speaker 3: the announcement, he had a little red Bull logo on
Speaker 3: the side of his boy you had a big chunk
Speaker 3: is coming from red Bull. Now he's got a big
Speaker 3: water pop money in his pocket, right, and so now
Speaker 3: he's going to go get a chunk of money from
Speaker 3: other schools, whether it be Kentucky or Duke or Kansas
Speaker 3: or BYU. And he got a chunk of money from BYU.
Speaker 3: But that chunk of money from BYU, I don't think
Speaker 3: necessarily carried the day. It just made it competitive, right.
Speaker 3: They didn't have to write that whole number. They could
Speaker 3: write a percentage of that number coupled with true nil money.
Speaker 3: And he's like, you know what, I'm gonna make the
Speaker 3: same money here if I if I make it at Kansas,
Speaker 3: I'm not going to make a whole lot more there.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to make a whole lot more at
Speaker 3: North Carolina. And by the way, I went to high
Speaker 3: school here and my parents really liked the environment at BUYU,
Speaker 3: and I've made some friends in the community in Utah,
Speaker 3: and I liked their coaching staff, and so it gave
Speaker 3: byu a chance, and I think that's where nil can
Speaker 3: be and you know, it can level the playing field
Speaker 3: to a certain extent. And it's not really just outbidding
Speaker 3: someone like by You didn't go and outbid other people.
Speaker 3: They just were competitive and they offered things that were
Speaker 3: important to him and his family. So I think that's
Speaker 3: the positive side of it. And you're right when they said,
Speaker 3: you know, let's and I hate to even say nil
Speaker 3: because look, there's a professional sports team to tea here
Speaker 3: the email very well, you know, the Utah Jazz, and
Speaker 3: I don't know about you. I don't see it's on
Speaker 3: the Utah Jazz. Guys getting nil money in the local market,
Speaker 3: and usually they're the non starters. They're the guys that
Speaker 3: are doing the used car dealership for Larry Miller, so
Speaker 3: they get the use of a car and they get
Speaker 3: an extra fifty K, or they're on a credit Union commercial.
Speaker 3: But people that are in the business world, like myself
Speaker 3: and other people, you need an ROI on those dollars.
Speaker 3: And people just aren't scratching checks to both collegiate players
Speaker 3: or NBA players in the market unless somehow they feel
Speaker 3: it's going to make their business thrive. And there's going
Speaker 3: to be a return on that dollar investment, and Nike
Speaker 3: certainly can do that. Right, they're betting on this kid
Speaker 3: being the next Michael Jordan or the likes thereof right
Speaker 3: and red Bull is you're wanting to affiliate with this
Speaker 3: guy because he's just an unbelievable talent. And then you've
Speaker 3: got a university that can throw in some dollars to say, hey, oh,
Speaker 3: and by the way, we really like you too, and
Speaker 3: we want you to come and we use them. And
Speaker 3: I had NL dollars and we have a collective I
Speaker 3: shouldn't say n al. You know, I get a little
Speaker 3: miffed sometimes when people throw nil around and it's really
Speaker 3: not nil. It's just pay to play. But we've got
Speaker 3: a pool of funds that we can pay you to
Speaker 3: come play for us, and it's all going to work out.
Speaker 3: And to kudos to b YU, because I think, you know,
Speaker 3: obviously the ownership of BYU is unique and they care
Speaker 3: about what people think about that institution and then as
Speaker 3: a as a as a culture, and I think they said,
Speaker 3: you know what, hey, look, we can do a lot
Speaker 3: of good by being competitive on the field, and yes,
Speaker 3: we're willing to back this to a certain extent. I
Speaker 3: think if it gets crazy, you know, you might feel
Speaker 3: that change. But right now, they're like saying, yeah, let's
Speaker 3: go along, let's be really mindful. They hired a GM,
Speaker 3: which you know, basically is a lawyer to come make
Speaker 3: sure they're doing everything dot in the eyes and crossing
Speaker 3: the t's and doing everything by the book, and it
Speaker 3: seems to be working. So I'm grateful that. You know,
Speaker 3: my school that I went to school played at with
Speaker 3: by the way, call Whittingham was my teammate. So I
Speaker 3: get the same thing at buy at DU and I'm
Speaker 3: friends with Kyle and I'm friends with Freddie, and I
Speaker 3: talked to these guys, those guys about these same issues,
Speaker 3: and you know, they're they're important to their program, just
Speaker 3: like it's important to BUYU and it's important to them
Speaker 3: as fans of the of the sport. So I don't
Speaker 3: know if I answered the question, but yes, it's it's
Speaker 3: it's crazy what's happening down there. And I think it's
Speaker 3: really good, you know, I think the portal has been
Speaker 3: a real benefit for him. They're just in this last
Speaker 3: week a couple of kids that I've coached in high
Speaker 3: school that you know, I coached to Cilia Kanna, who
Speaker 3: was a you know, top forty recruit in the country.
Speaker 3: I mean, he had one hundred offers. Then he went
Speaker 3: to Texas and you know, some good, some not ideal,
Speaker 3: and thought it might be good to come closer to
Speaker 3: where he went, you know, grew up and from from
Speaker 3: a high school standpoint, and came back here and made
Speaker 3: the rounds and and he's going to go to BUYU.
Speaker 3: I'm thrilled because I coached him in high school and
Speaker 3: now I can see him playing person. He's an awesome
Speaker 3: human being and he's a phenomenal talent, and so I
Speaker 3: you know, I see some of those things kind of
Speaker 3: work out in our favor, just like it's working out
Speaker 3: at Utah. You know, it's sad to see some guys go,
Speaker 3: but it's also exciting to get some talent. But it
Speaker 3: can't be a revolving door. It's like, my goodness, come
Speaker 3: and play for us. And like you said earlier, if
Speaker 3: you're gonna send a contract, a contract means something usually
Speaker 3: has a term. It's usually not you know, three months,
Speaker 3: it's usually a year or two years, or there's gonna
Speaker 3: be something that triggers another opportunity for you to leave.
Speaker 3: But if you're gonna take cash and you're gonna come
Speaker 3: play for my school, I'm gonna say you're gonna play
Speaker 3: in all the games, including the Bowl game. That's where
Speaker 3: I give Dionn a ton of credit, and you're gonna
Speaker 3: stick around because we're gonna we're gonna come up with
Speaker 3: some resources. And that's, you know, quid pro quo. You
Speaker 3: play for us, you get cash, and it's it's got
Speaker 3: to be some sort of commitment. So yeah, all those things,
Speaker 3: all those things Spence you and I could talk about
Speaker 3: for hours because I'm passionate about it and it sounds
Speaker 3: like you care as well, and so yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 2: Great stuff, Jim. I appreciate your time today. I knew
Speaker 2: it would be good, and I'm glad you had a
Speaker 2: great Christmas. I wish you a happy New Year's and
Speaker 2: love to have you on again at some point.
Speaker 3: Okay, appreciate it. Hey come to our next golf tournament.
Speaker 3: Was great to see you for sure, and we're gonna
Speaker 3: be in the same foursome now.
Speaker 1: I'd love to Jim. Thank you, sir.
Speaker 3: Okay, thank you, Vince. Appreciate you