WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.960 --> 00:00:12.919 Hey, folks, welcome to another money space with me calu Aja. 2 00:00:13.199 --> 00:00:17.120 Of course, on this space, we're talking money, the economy, finance, 3 00:00:17.480 --> 00:00:19.719 and we want to make it personal to you, bring 4 00:00:19.760 --> 00:00:22.600 all those topics that you hear about in the news 5 00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:25.359 and bring it to you in a way that you 6 00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:29.320 can identify and use to be a better investor. Right 7 00:00:30.199 --> 00:00:35.039 this week, we're talking and even economic development via transportation 8 00:00:35.240 --> 00:00:40.079 infrastructure in essence, won't look at how the transportation infrastructure 9 00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:43.719 and NIDIA is set up and how should we say 10 00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:47.560 use that or build an infrastructure that allows us to 11 00:00:47.759 --> 00:00:52.479 generate economic growth. You know, we don't just want economic growth, 12 00:00:52.560 --> 00:00:57.079 want economic development. We see every year we're building this road, 13 00:00:57.200 --> 00:00:59.880 or we're building that railway or we're building this airport. 14 00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:03.119 Are we doing it right? What's the best to sort 15 00:01:03.159 --> 00:01:05.760 of like utilize this resources. Nigeria has a lot of 16 00:01:07.079 --> 00:01:10.920 crude oil reserves, crude oil revenues, but we have very 17 00:01:11.000 --> 00:01:14.920 very poor infrastructure. It's not just a function of building 18 00:01:15.040 --> 00:01:19.480 a good road here, it's just the intact connectivity and 19 00:01:19.599 --> 00:01:23.680 again how that connectivity is designed in the states and 20 00:01:23.719 --> 00:01:26.799 local government areas to then generate that growth. That's essentially 21 00:01:26.799 --> 00:01:29.120 what we want to talk about today. If you're old 22 00:01:29.120 --> 00:01:33.920 and not remember something called diffree, I forgot the full mean. 23 00:01:33.959 --> 00:01:36.680 I think it was directed for food, roads and rural 24 00:01:36.719 --> 00:01:40.239 infrastructure Diffree, and the idea back then was that we 25 00:01:40.400 --> 00:01:42.920 had to build from the rural areas to build, even 26 00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:45.840 if it's just dirt roads. So go to the rural 27 00:01:45.959 --> 00:01:49.760 areas and then build out dirt roads or just infrastructure 28 00:01:49.799 --> 00:01:52.400 from rural areas to the little towns so that can 29 00:01:52.480 --> 00:01:55.879 get food transported from those rural areas to the towns. 30 00:01:56.359 --> 00:01:59.920 That helps food inflation, That generates wealth for the farmers, 31 00:02:00.359 --> 00:02:04.799 that generates economic activity, It boosts sme It even reduces 32 00:02:04.879 --> 00:02:07.840 crime and terrorism. So if you look at what's happening 33 00:02:07.879 --> 00:02:10.120 to Nigeria, if we had addressed and kept on with 34 00:02:10.159 --> 00:02:13.639 the different pace from the eighties, perhaps won't have had 35 00:02:13.680 --> 00:02:16.960 the insurgency, the bandit trade, the kidnappings that we have now. 36 00:02:17.400 --> 00:02:20.120 So I want to bring the guy I Meansnamy is 37 00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:23.280 a guy I follow on Twitter. He talked a lot 38 00:02:23.319 --> 00:02:26.879 about transportation. I like his take on it. I'm surprised. 39 00:02:26.879 --> 00:02:28.560 I don't know what he does in his day job, 40 00:02:28.840 --> 00:02:32.080 but he don't bring an insight into it. Also, I'm 41 00:02:32.120 --> 00:02:35.280 sharing the I shared the real master plan for Nigeria. 42 00:02:35.360 --> 00:02:37.159 I'm going to share the road and the water with 43 00:02:37.280 --> 00:02:39.680 master plan for Nigeria so that we can talk around, 44 00:02:39.759 --> 00:02:41.759 so I can get a visual on what we're talking about. 45 00:02:41.800 --> 00:02:43.280 So if you look at my Twitter space, I just 46 00:02:43.319 --> 00:02:46.199 shared the real master plan. I'm gonna act tonomy to 47 00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:48.680 just speak around these issues. So totame, let me have 48 00:02:48.719 --> 00:02:51.759 you on mutes. Just do a quick intro and then 49 00:02:51.759 --> 00:02:53.360 I have a few questions for you. And then of 50 00:02:53.439 --> 00:02:55.639 course if guys want to ask questions or want to 51 00:02:56.360 --> 00:02:59.319 send a DM or need clarifications, I'm sure you can 52 00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:02.000 do that. So time, go ahead and commute yourself. Just 53 00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:12.240 give us intro. I mean I think you're muted. Can 54 00:03:12.280 --> 00:03:17.560 you hear me? Okay, so I'm not sure. Yeah, there 55 00:03:17.599 --> 00:03:17.840 we go. 56 00:03:17.919 --> 00:03:19.000 Okay, can you can you hear me? 57 00:03:19.039 --> 00:03:19.199 Now? 58 00:03:19.319 --> 00:03:19.360 No? 59 00:03:19.479 --> 00:03:20.840 I can? Yeah, go for you bro. 60 00:03:21.120 --> 00:03:24.960 Okay, all right, thanks, thanks kylu for having me here. 61 00:03:25.680 --> 00:03:27.319 My name is Tanami. 62 00:03:26.919 --> 00:03:31.719 And in terms of my day job, my day job, 63 00:03:31.879 --> 00:03:36.759 I work for the electric utility here in California. But 64 00:03:37.800 --> 00:03:43.360 I just have interest in transport and I have studied 65 00:03:43.360 --> 00:03:48.800 a lot about about it over the years, So I 66 00:03:48.840 --> 00:03:53.439 guess that's my that's my background, and I guess I'm 67 00:03:53.479 --> 00:03:57.759 open to whatever questions you want to ask regarding the 68 00:03:57.879 --> 00:03:59.919 topic of where we want to I'll go. 69 00:04:00.360 --> 00:04:02.520 Tell me, let's start from rail. I just shared the 70 00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:04.919 REIL master plan. I'm sure if you guys can see 71 00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:08.199 go to my last tweet, you'd see the last I 72 00:04:08.360 --> 00:04:11.719 just shared. Now, now the Nigeria Reil master Plan to me, 73 00:04:12.120 --> 00:04:14.280 I know, I saw a comment that you did Ugo 74 00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:18.040 State government was gonna connect rail from Ugo State to 75 00:04:18.160 --> 00:04:22.439 the port in on it. That's besides in general, right 76 00:04:22.480 --> 00:04:24.759 if you look at the REIL master Plan, we are 77 00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:28.120 still operating the rail lines that the Klondel government built 78 00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:31.319 for Nigeria. So in essence, we have this big line 79 00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:35.279 from Legos all the way to Cano that's a standard gauge. 80 00:04:35.920 --> 00:04:38.720 We also have from Portarcot all the way to mad 81 00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:43.040 Degree that's also no that's they're all narrow gauge. From 82 00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:46.639 Legos to Kano, from Portaco to mad Degree are all 83 00:04:46.759 --> 00:04:51.879 narrow gauge. Now from Legos to Ebaden it's standard gauge 84 00:04:51.879 --> 00:04:55.360 with upgrade that standard gage Legos to eat Baden. From 85 00:04:55.360 --> 00:04:59.879 Abuja to Kaduna standard gauge. Then we have this railway 86 00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:03.120 in the middle of Nigeria, not connected to anybody from 87 00:05:03.199 --> 00:05:06.879 worried to attack by also standard gauge. If you look 88 00:05:06.920 --> 00:05:09.519 at it totam me, you see that we haven't built 89 00:05:09.720 --> 00:05:13.800 anything outside what the quote unquote British built for us, 90 00:05:13.800 --> 00:05:17.079 the British buildings realized in the nineteenth We haven't built 91 00:05:17.120 --> 00:05:20.639 any horizontal realize this are all built to take goods 92 00:05:20.639 --> 00:05:23.120 out from the north, from the east to the port 93 00:05:23.240 --> 00:05:25.759 and to be exported to the UK. We have won't 94 00:05:25.800 --> 00:05:28.560 converted to this and we are still running the narrow 95 00:05:28.639 --> 00:05:31.480 gauge and we just have a very very few standard gauge. 96 00:05:31.800 --> 00:05:34.639 So just in terms of your view on real you know, 97 00:05:34.680 --> 00:05:36.480 what are we doing right? What are we doing wrong? 98 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:38.439 What can we do better to drive economic growth? 99 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:44.959 Yeah, so in terms in terms of what Nigeria is 100 00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:49.720 doing right for real, at least it is in the consideration, 101 00:05:50.160 --> 00:05:51.319 so at least there's a plan. 102 00:05:51.480 --> 00:05:54.600 So that's that's the right part. 103 00:05:54.720 --> 00:05:58.800 The wrong part is the what. 104 00:05:58.879 --> 00:06:02.279 Is being prioritized, what is being built and also. 105 00:06:02.279 --> 00:06:09.480 How how the infrastructure that is built is operate. So 106 00:06:09.720 --> 00:06:12.720 those are those are the things that are that are 107 00:06:12.720 --> 00:06:19.279 being done wrong. In terms of the routing we there's 108 00:06:19.319 --> 00:06:21.680 a there's a tendency. It's not just real. It's the 109 00:06:21.720 --> 00:06:25.000 same thing with the road network. There's a tendency for 110 00:06:25.160 --> 00:06:30.480 Nigeria too to not course correct. We stick to old 111 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:35.480 plans even though those plants are outdated. So yes, it 112 00:06:35.560 --> 00:06:40.600 made sense when the colonial administration, we're building. 113 00:06:40.279 --> 00:06:42.759 These rail aliance for their administration. 114 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:48.600 But Nigeria has to look at what how the geography 115 00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:54.879 of the current how the geography of the current population is, 116 00:06:54.959 --> 00:06:58.920 what's the population distribution, what is the movement of different 117 00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:06.319 items regarding food, people, goods and then days our plan 118 00:07:06.639 --> 00:07:10.680 on that. But we just keep sticking to this colonial 119 00:07:10.759 --> 00:07:14.480 plan of Legosticano legos to Carano, Legosticano put out to 120 00:07:14.560 --> 00:07:19.600 Madogree and we don't do it. We don't re evaluate, 121 00:07:19.680 --> 00:07:24.160 we don't make any corrections, and if we do make adjustments. 122 00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:27.879 To it, it's. 123 00:07:26.439 --> 00:07:27.759 Like very. 124 00:07:29.680 --> 00:07:31.519 The adjustment don't really add value. 125 00:07:32.120 --> 00:07:35.439 They are very minimal and they don't add value to 126 00:07:35.519 --> 00:07:37.639 the to the to the larger picture. 127 00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:42.519 So for for for the real. 128 00:07:42.439 --> 00:07:45.480 Yes, we don't have no we we we don't have. 129 00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:48.519 Any East west rail linkages. 130 00:07:49.319 --> 00:07:52.600 And the only don't I don't know if you can 131 00:07:52.720 --> 00:07:58.000 call that East West linkage the linkage between Kaduna and Joss. 132 00:07:58.839 --> 00:07:59.839 That's what I count. 133 00:08:02.480 --> 00:08:09.639 But the when we want to build, when we want 134 00:08:09.680 --> 00:08:12.600 to build a realm okay. So that there's another thing 135 00:08:12.639 --> 00:08:23.759 too is how we how we phase infrastructure. So there's 136 00:08:23.759 --> 00:08:24.759 something about. 137 00:08:24.519 --> 00:08:27.759 Rail where until you connect to. 138 00:08:29.839 --> 00:08:35.600 Critical points, that real line, that rail line, once built 139 00:08:35.720 --> 00:08:39.480 is as good as useless. So if you just build 140 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:42.399 so we we have this like for example, the link 141 00:08:42.480 --> 00:08:48.559 between Abuja and Kaduna, that is not a that is 142 00:08:48.600 --> 00:08:54.679 not a useful distance for rail to connect, and you 143 00:08:54.840 --> 00:08:57.159 build it in such a way that it is islanded 144 00:08:58.159 --> 00:09:03.080 and once it's built, the utility is their minimal. So 145 00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:06.639 that's why that road that that corridor is it's not 146 00:09:06.799 --> 00:09:11.519 meeting any ridership expectation, it's not transporting any goods, it's 147 00:09:11.559 --> 00:09:13.039 not doing anything. 148 00:09:13.080 --> 00:09:14.320 It's just there. 149 00:09:14.159 --> 00:09:17.679 Then you still but you have to pay the loans 150 00:09:17.759 --> 00:09:20.960 on that on that road, you're not getting any utility 151 00:09:21.000 --> 00:09:23.360 out of it because we don't phase properly. 152 00:09:24.480 --> 00:09:25.759 So you want to connect. 153 00:09:25.480 --> 00:09:29.399 The critical points and you want to do the entire 154 00:09:29.519 --> 00:09:31.720 corridor for those critical points. 155 00:09:31.600 --> 00:09:33.919 First of all, so you do so in essence, if 156 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:37.559 you're going to do you want to do the canal. 157 00:09:37.679 --> 00:09:39.639 You want to do the jaws, you want to do 158 00:09:39.679 --> 00:09:42.639 the midigree, and it's like a Hobburn spoke approach more 159 00:09:42.679 --> 00:09:43.200 or less. 160 00:09:44.279 --> 00:09:47.600 Yeah. So for example, let's say we want to stick to. 161 00:09:47.600 --> 00:09:53.159 The colonial colonial plan. We want to build Legos to Carne. Fine, 162 00:09:53.480 --> 00:09:56.679 let's stick to that. If we want to phase that properly. 163 00:09:58.679 --> 00:10:04.080 The critical city is on those corridors Legos, Abuja and Kano. 164 00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:08.480 So if you're going to face that project, you can 165 00:10:08.519 --> 00:10:11.120 only the only the right way to face that project 166 00:10:11.279 --> 00:10:16.440 is two phases Legos to Abuja, Abuja to Kando. Any 167 00:10:16.519 --> 00:10:22.039 other phase implementation you're wasting resources because that resource is 168 00:10:22.039 --> 00:10:26.759 going to lie underutilized. So that is a major problem 169 00:10:26.759 --> 00:10:28.279 that we have when we phase things. 170 00:10:28.279 --> 00:10:28.799 So we did. 171 00:10:29.480 --> 00:10:33.720 We did Legos to Ibadon and then we stopped Iba, 172 00:10:33.879 --> 00:10:34.440 we stopped and. 173 00:10:34.360 --> 00:10:36.159 Then is blank. 174 00:10:36.639 --> 00:10:40.399 And then despite the fact that Legos to it is 175 00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:42.039 a short distance, but it is. 176 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:47.039 An okay okay corridor, I mean it's it's it has 177 00:10:47.080 --> 00:10:47.759 some utility. 178 00:10:48.120 --> 00:10:49.080 But then we don't. 179 00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:49.799 Operate it properly. 180 00:10:49.840 --> 00:10:51.879 We run only two trains a day the same way. 181 00:10:51.960 --> 00:10:54.399 The trains even less than what the trains we're running 182 00:10:55.360 --> 00:10:59.919 vacuum the colonial era gotcha. 183 00:11:00.200 --> 00:11:04.960 So that is so those are those are the failings 184 00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:07.759 that we run into when we when we try to 185 00:11:07.879 --> 00:11:12.960 build or implement real infrastructure in Nigeria. 186 00:11:13.240 --> 00:11:15.399 Let me give you numbers and I just share a twet. Guys, 187 00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:17.679 if you only just go to my Twitter, share a tweet. 188 00:11:17.720 --> 00:11:20.360 Now it's on the real economics in Nigeria and you 189 00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:22.159 can see what they've done here. I'm not sure who 190 00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:24.080 did this study so I can give credit, but I 191 00:11:24.200 --> 00:11:25.600 wasn't done by me. I know if you did it 192 00:11:25.679 --> 00:11:27.279 telling you, but I can give it so I can 193 00:11:27.279 --> 00:11:30.440 give credit. It's real economics right. It talks about the 194 00:11:30.519 --> 00:11:32.879 reil lines in Nigeria. So what they've done here is 195 00:11:32.919 --> 00:11:37.720 to pick the existing rail lines right Legos to portar Courts, 196 00:11:37.720 --> 00:11:41.080 maybe a Portaco to Enugu. They've done the distance, they've 197 00:11:41.080 --> 00:11:44.480 done the annual revenues, and they've done the line density. 198 00:11:44.799 --> 00:11:46.759 So it goes to your point. You're making told that 199 00:11:46.840 --> 00:11:49.279 if you want to build rails, you want to look 200 00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:52.559 at the density where there's should we say, consumers of 201 00:11:52.600 --> 00:11:57.080 the reil lines, so the lines pay themselves. So essentially, 202 00:11:57.080 --> 00:11:59.279 if you're building between two points, you want to build 203 00:11:59.320 --> 00:12:03.679 two points out, got commuters that can move real freight 204 00:12:03.799 --> 00:12:07.279 and people, so that line pays itself. Now, if you 205 00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:10.600 look at what Nigeria has invested in and guys, if 206 00:12:10.600 --> 00:12:12.879 you look at the chart, it will help you because 207 00:12:12.919 --> 00:12:15.559 you can see visually what I'm talking about. Nigeria has 208 00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:19.240 built since the White Man left. We've built Legos to 209 00:12:19.279 --> 00:12:26.480 ibad On standard gauge. We've built Abuja to Kaduna standard gauge. 210 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:31.360 We've also built Worried to Attack Bay standard gauge. Everything 211 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:34.799 else in Nigeria was built by the British. Everything else, 212 00:12:34.840 --> 00:12:38.000 so the Olegos to Kano, you're a portacle to middle 213 00:12:38.039 --> 00:12:40.679 grade were all built by the British. We've just maybe 214 00:12:40.720 --> 00:12:43.600 made the lines better. But the standard gauge is just 215 00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:48.159 Legos to Ibadon, not to Abuja and Worry to Attack 216 00:12:48.200 --> 00:12:50.440 By Now, if you come to that chat to me, 217 00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:52.200 I know if you can see that chat I'm talking about, 218 00:12:52.840 --> 00:12:56.639 they have scored that the most viable line you could 219 00:12:56.679 --> 00:12:59.480 have in Nigeria, The most viable real life Najia is 220 00:12:59.480 --> 00:13:01.919 going to be leg Us to portar Court via on 221 00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:04.759 a chair. They put a line density there because that's 222 00:13:04.759 --> 00:13:08.200 where you have the greatest amount of movement of Nigeria, 223 00:13:08.360 --> 00:13:11.720 both freight and people. After then you have legos to 224 00:13:11.759 --> 00:13:14.919 eat bad On. Then you have legos to Caliber again 225 00:13:15.080 --> 00:13:17.840 via on a chair. Then you have legos to Abuja 226 00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:23.279 via Mina, then legos to Protacot. You have protact in Enugu, Protacotabuja. 227 00:13:23.440 --> 00:13:25.720 If you go to the very very end, you see 228 00:13:25.879 --> 00:13:28.440 worry to attack. But it's in the middle of nowhere 229 00:13:29.080 --> 00:13:32.279 that real hen was built to move iron ore between 230 00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:34.360 our job that it's not a commercial line, but we 231 00:13:34.440 --> 00:13:38.320 spent billions in dollars to activate that line. So it 232 00:13:38.320 --> 00:13:40.120 goes to what you're saying that we're not building these 233 00:13:40.120 --> 00:13:42.840 things in tereads of looking at the numbers the economics. 234 00:13:43.039 --> 00:13:46.639 We're building it to do regionalism or want to maintain 235 00:13:46.679 --> 00:13:49.000 a campaign promise. So do you want to if you 236 00:13:49.039 --> 00:13:51.159 can see that chap telling me that's a very very 237 00:13:51.159 --> 00:13:53.039 good point for us to then look at the economies 238 00:13:53.080 --> 00:13:55.720 of where we are deployed funds and where we should 239 00:13:56.559 --> 00:13:57.559 have deployed funds. 240 00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:00.320 Yeah, I can see, I can see the chart. 241 00:14:00.960 --> 00:14:04.440 So so so that. 242 00:14:04.399 --> 00:14:08.840 Chart I created that chart based just calculating readership based. 243 00:14:08.600 --> 00:14:16.480 So you did it, Yeah, yeah, great, yeah, great, great, great, excellent, yeah. 244 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:21.080 Based on the populations and using a gravity model to 245 00:14:21.159 --> 00:14:27.519 see how the what the expected ridership will be based 246 00:14:27.519 --> 00:14:31.080 on the distance and the population of those different notes. 247 00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:39.480 So based on based on that, a line connecting Legos 248 00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:45.120 on each is the most viable real corridor because that 249 00:14:45.679 --> 00:14:50.720 covers a that is the highest density concentration of population, 250 00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:54.240 and that's the highest traffic corridor. 251 00:14:54.960 --> 00:14:57.240 And it also so what also. 252 00:14:57.559 --> 00:15:04.879 Helps kind of buttress this is also the traffic analysis 253 00:15:04.919 --> 00:15:05.679 that have been done. 254 00:15:05.559 --> 00:15:11.080 By a f dB and in that. 255 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:15.519 Analysis, the and if they're looking at truck truck traffic, 256 00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:21.559 the most congested or the corridor with the highest amount 257 00:15:21.559 --> 00:15:25.519 of truck traffic is between Legos and Aicha. 258 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:28.879 So you have that corridor on. 259 00:15:30.559 --> 00:15:34.360 That being in or experts way that is heavily congested 260 00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:37.000 with trucks because that is where the track, that is 261 00:15:37.039 --> 00:15:41.080 where the traffic is. So if we look, if we 262 00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:47.000 if we use these types of analysis to make our 263 00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:49.440 decisions on where we put our money in terms of 264 00:15:49.519 --> 00:15:52.919 the infrastructure, we're going to make better decisions. 265 00:15:53.080 --> 00:15:56.159 And for some reason Nigeria is not really. 266 00:15:57.639 --> 00:16:02.639 It's not putting the data ahead of making those decisions. 267 00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:05.080 The decisions are just made and then they just go 268 00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:08.559 with the decision regardless of whatever value. 269 00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:10.960 Is gotten from that piece of infrastructure. So if we're 270 00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:14.080 going by this, what the country. 271 00:16:13.759 --> 00:16:16.799 Should be doing, like all hands on deck is trying 272 00:16:16.840 --> 00:16:21.679 to connect Legos on each other or. 273 00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:24.919 Vial. This is very real. 274 00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:26.639 Yeah, this is, this. 275 00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:31.440 Is this is this is by rail and on that corridor. 276 00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:35.200 The Legos Calaba is is Karba is just an. 277 00:16:35.080 --> 00:16:39.080 Extension of the Legos to corridor. You branch off. 278 00:16:38.919 --> 00:16:42.279 Of you use the same corridor from Legos on each 279 00:16:42.840 --> 00:16:46.360 a portal chord, and then you branch off of Abba 280 00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:49.840 for the extension to Klaba. 281 00:16:49.919 --> 00:16:51.879 That will be a short extension. 282 00:16:51.399 --> 00:16:55.360 So you get so that's so by building that corridor, 283 00:16:55.679 --> 00:16:57.080 you also you're able to. 284 00:16:57.039 --> 00:17:01.279 Get the extension to Klabat by a short short branch. 285 00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:04.759 Is I think the Lego's portact word is about six 286 00:17:04.839 --> 00:17:07.160 hundred and seventy five kilometers. 287 00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:09.759 The branch to Abbad is. 288 00:17:09.759 --> 00:17:12.119 Only one hundred and twenty one hundred and twenty nine 289 00:17:12.200 --> 00:17:13.359 one hundred and thirty kilometers. 290 00:17:13.400 --> 00:17:14.480 It's a very short branch. 291 00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:18.079 So you and then you see that traffic. 292 00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:20.400 Onto the same corridor, so you get this more utility 293 00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:23.200 out of building that corridor and that. 294 00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:27.200 Is what we should be doing. And in terms of getting. 295 00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:32.559 So that gives you the most viable east west corridor 296 00:17:32.599 --> 00:17:34.839 on the country. And then when you're looking at the 297 00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:41.759 north south getting Legos to Abuja, the current to the 298 00:17:41.799 --> 00:17:44.799 current plan, I would say the current plan is fine. 299 00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:52.759 Like the current plan, they're going from Legos Ibadon Aline Mina, 300 00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:59.720 Abuja and then extension to to Cano. That's fine, and 301 00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:02.119 that that's a corridor that should be. 302 00:18:04.519 --> 00:18:06.039 That should be good. But the one with the highest 303 00:18:06.079 --> 00:18:08.319 quality definitely is Legos. 304 00:18:08.359 --> 00:18:12.519 On each aproduct, let's to let's touch roads. So we 305 00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:16.519 agree that the Legos to the East to West railway 306 00:18:16.920 --> 00:18:20.200 is the most viable, has the most cargo. Again, just 307 00:18:20.319 --> 00:18:23.160 Legos to Abaton is still part of that link. Right. 308 00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:27.599 What about roads? Right now, we have this quote unquote 309 00:18:27.599 --> 00:18:32.599 Coastal Road, a brand new coastal road. Before the coastal Road, 310 00:18:32.599 --> 00:18:35.480 we have the East West Road. Again, guys, if you 311 00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:38.799 go on that the street, I shared the Nigerian twenty 312 00:18:38.839 --> 00:18:43.000 five years Strategic Vision for roads as well. Right, so 313 00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:46.839 we have the East West Road, we have the East 314 00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:52.799 the proposed coastal railway from China. When that was issued, 315 00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:55.920 I think between twenty thirteen that was the largest contract 316 00:18:55.960 --> 00:19:01.400 ever issued to a Chinese corporation ever by a foreign government, 317 00:19:01.839 --> 00:19:04.680 was about for thirteen billion if I remember back then 318 00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:09.599 in thirteen. Do we now have the coastal road? So 319 00:19:09.640 --> 00:19:12.720 we have the coastal road, we have the East West 320 00:19:13.079 --> 00:19:17.400 Road itself, then we have the coastal railway all three 321 00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:21.079 of them? Is there any prioritization which should happen first? 322 00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:23.720 Should the roads happen first? For the rails? I don't 323 00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:25.880 think we have more to build both of them together, 324 00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:28.759 or can we build both of them together? What's your 325 00:19:28.799 --> 00:19:32.640 take on the road versus rail connecting the east and 326 00:19:32.680 --> 00:19:34.160 the west because that's where the trade is. 327 00:19:35.880 --> 00:19:41.720 Yeah, So in terms of road and rail, they serve 328 00:19:43.480 --> 00:19:53.759 their complimentary so that in terms of rail real needs 329 00:19:53.799 --> 00:19:56.000 the most. 330 00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:00.480 You need more prioritization in terms. 331 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:03.880 Of what corridor you need to build when you build rail, 332 00:20:04.200 --> 00:20:07.200 because the thing with rail is. 333 00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:09.519 In order for that infrastructure to. 334 00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:15.319 Be utilized optimally, it needs to be in a high, 335 00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:17.799 very high traffic density corridor. 336 00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:23.279 That's rail. Uh, it needs to be in a very 337 00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:30.480 high traffic density corridor. So when so you pick a 338 00:20:30.519 --> 00:20:31.759 high high traffic. 339 00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:35.960 Density corridor and build you can build a rail link, but. 340 00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:40.720 You also need you also need uh a road link 341 00:20:40.920 --> 00:20:44.319 because the thing they road. 342 00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:45.960 Is more allows you to disperse. 343 00:20:46.920 --> 00:20:49.559 You have more jump gens allo allows you to distribute 344 00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:56.279 like you can get in. You can feeding more. 345 00:20:56.319 --> 00:21:00.799 You can feeding distributed traffic onto the corridor. Unrail you 346 00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:05.960 have like stations along it and only those stations have access. 347 00:21:06.440 --> 00:21:12.359 But the road can bringing those kind of act as. 348 00:21:12.200 --> 00:21:16.000 A feeder onto the onto the railway and the railway 349 00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:17.039 just acts as the main. 350 00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:20.640 Trunk line for the for the for the highways. 351 00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:29.000 The there's there should be like if we want to build. 352 00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:33.200 Like enable economic development, we have to build both. We 353 00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:36.920 have to build both radio and highways. But in terms 354 00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:41.319 of the highways, we also have to build the right highways. 355 00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:44.799 So so let me go over over the highways a 356 00:21:44.839 --> 00:21:45.279 little bit. 357 00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:52.400 Currently we have four North South highway. 358 00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:59.039 Corridors in in Nigeria and yeah, those we have. 359 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:02.640 The A one that is going from Sukutu to. 360 00:22:04.279 --> 00:22:11.039 Uh Jemba, Ilari, Chagamo, Legos and then. 361 00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:13.000 East of that you have the A two from Daura. 362 00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:18.680 Kano, Abuja, Benin City, Warri Port Hacord and then you 363 00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:26.920 have the A three going from Madugurrie, Bauchi, Jaws, Marko, 364 00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:29.240 d Abah Port Hacord. 365 00:22:29.559 --> 00:22:31.960 And then you have the A four which is named 366 00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:33.119 from Madugurri. 367 00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:38.880 Jalingo, Koja and Calaba h So those are the main 368 00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:44.519 north south roads. Just as we lack east west rail linkage, 369 00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:51.480 Nigeria lacks good east west highway linkages. So if you 370 00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:55.720 look at the east west, the only major east west 371 00:22:55.799 --> 00:22:57.000 route is East. 372 00:22:56.799 --> 00:22:58.200 West Road. 373 00:22:59.279 --> 00:23:05.279 Going from Less be named on Nita and then there's 374 00:23:05.319 --> 00:23:08.119 a huge gap before you get to. 375 00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:11.000 There's a huge gap. 376 00:23:10.839 --> 00:23:13.720 Until you get to Cookie before there's another bridge to 377 00:23:13.799 --> 00:23:17.799 cross to cut across. So and then when you look 378 00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:20.400 at traffic, When you look at traffic, if you want 379 00:23:20.440 --> 00:23:24.039 to in terms of prioritizing what highways to build or 380 00:23:24.079 --> 00:23:26.839 where to put money into, you have to look at 381 00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:32.839 where our bottlenecks are and how to releave those bottlenecks. 382 00:23:32.920 --> 00:23:35.640 So on our urway network we have they are like 383 00:23:35.839 --> 00:23:38.359 three major bottlenecks on the highways. 384 00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:39.880 The number one. 385 00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:45.960 Bottleneck despite the fact that it's not a lot of traffic, 386 00:23:46.519 --> 00:23:50.400 it's not as much traffic as on the east west side. 387 00:23:50.960 --> 00:23:57.440 But because there's a there's a scarcity of access. The 388 00:23:57.640 --> 00:24:01.000 local Ja access is the number bout one bottleneck in 389 00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:02.720 the entire Ninjera highway. 390 00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:11.519 System because all traffic. We have a huge traffic. 391 00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:15.680 Demand coming from in terms of in terms of goods, 392 00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:19.839 you have a lot of agricultural products coming from the 393 00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:25.400 Middle Belt, the northern part and going towards the west, 394 00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:30.279 the southwest going towards Lagos and the only route so 395 00:24:30.359 --> 00:24:33.039 all that traffic has to be routed through Local Jack 396 00:24:33.720 --> 00:24:35.960 to get to Lagos. And then you have all the 397 00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:38.480 traffic from the southern part of nigera. 398 00:24:39.920 --> 00:24:43.759 And also into goods moving between the. 399 00:24:43.720 --> 00:24:47.880 South and the northern part of Nigeria that's from Port Harcourt, 400 00:24:48.759 --> 00:24:53.839 Southeast region, they have to go through the same local 401 00:24:53.920 --> 00:24:56.920 Jack access, so everything gets clogged up on there. 402 00:24:57.640 --> 00:25:00.920 So in terms of when we want. 403 00:25:00.799 --> 00:25:03.720 To prioritize highways is how do we relieve that we 404 00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:07.559 leave that bottleneck? Same thing with the legos on each 405 00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:09.920 on eacha is a huge bottleneck and how do we 406 00:25:09.960 --> 00:25:12.759 relieve it. Yes, to build this second Niger Bridge, and 407 00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:17.720 that's a good that's a good initiative, but that's just 408 00:25:17.799 --> 00:25:21.759 the bridge. It's still don't traffic onto the same road, 409 00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:26.079 So it sort of solve the problem. 410 00:25:26.119 --> 00:25:28.400 But the entire stretch has to be. 411 00:25:28.839 --> 00:25:30.920 Has to be completed to get the value of that. 412 00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:36.319 Second Niger Bridge, and we need and we need another 413 00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:38.920 linkage like in between those two. 414 00:25:39.039 --> 00:25:40.920 We need another linkage like from. 415 00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:46.519 Ida between Ida and Againybody, there's that is like a 416 00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:51.480 prime spot for an east west highway linkage and that's 417 00:25:51.480 --> 00:25:54.559 something that we should we should be building if we 418 00:25:54.640 --> 00:26:00.119 look at how we want to relief relieve all those bottlenecks. 419 00:26:00.279 --> 00:26:03.680 If we build a. 420 00:26:04.519 --> 00:26:09.519 If we build a diagonal highway from. 421 00:26:08.920 --> 00:26:12.079 Legos to Maiduguri, cut through. 422 00:26:12.079 --> 00:26:18.920 All the north south highways, get a bypass around Lokoja, 423 00:26:20.119 --> 00:26:25.200 you have you have a new route that all that 424 00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:27.720 traffic can fit through and. 425 00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:31.240 Actually relieve a lot of the corridor. 426 00:26:31.599 --> 00:26:35.759 And then from there from Akuai you can build an 427 00:26:35.799 --> 00:26:39.599 east west an east west link through Ida and again 428 00:26:39.759 --> 00:26:44.440 Body to Enugu and Abatlki and you have what you 429 00:26:44.519 --> 00:26:47.880 have an east west corridor and that links up to 430 00:26:47.960 --> 00:26:51.720 what the federal government is currently building with the Abuja to. 431 00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:59.559 Kaba Highway and so that serves that relieves. 432 00:27:01.519 --> 00:27:06.640 The bottlenecks within the existing network and create generate so 433 00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:12.440 degenerates new new economic activity. Now, if you look at 434 00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:17.720 what the government is building with the Scotwo to Badagri, 435 00:27:19.640 --> 00:27:22.839 it cuts it goes through a border that doesn't serve 436 00:27:23.160 --> 00:27:27.960 any of the existing population. And the same thing with 437 00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:31.559 the Legos Calaba Highway. And that's another thing with the 438 00:27:31.640 --> 00:27:36.839 not changing plans le Goes Calaba and Soco to Badagrie 439 00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:43.039 highways a highway plans from the nineteen seventies. And we 440 00:27:43.319 --> 00:27:49.519 rather than updating, updating our highway master plan and focusing 441 00:27:49.559 --> 00:27:51.640 on what we need now or what is it wll 442 00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:53.480 be useful now, we just said okay, so we made 443 00:27:53.480 --> 00:27:55.039 those plans in the nineteen seventies. 444 00:27:55.480 --> 00:27:58.680 Today they don't really they don't serve. 445 00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:03.400 Yeah, I mean don't say as well, yeah, you've been 446 00:28:03.559 --> 00:28:06.440 diplomatic to I get it. But again, if you look 447 00:28:06.440 --> 00:28:08.960 at Nigeria, this is year two twenty five, right, and 448 00:28:09.039 --> 00:28:13.319 Niger at nineteen sixty. All the roads and rails we 449 00:28:13.400 --> 00:28:17.519 have apart from this huge investment within the nineteen seventies, 450 00:28:17.559 --> 00:28:20.960 I think it was undergo and we build the Legacy 451 00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:24.440 bad On and the Legos being in it's still almost 452 00:28:24.440 --> 00:28:27.759 the same. We've got to be expanded added one lane. 453 00:28:28.359 --> 00:28:32.200 There's been no massive like in like you're talking about 454 00:28:32.200 --> 00:28:34.599 a diagonal road. We have the money to build Legos 455 00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:38.160 to mid degree and Calabat to Sokoto. We didn't do it, 456 00:28:39.279 --> 00:28:42.720 you know. So it's what what while managing what we 457 00:28:42.759 --> 00:28:44.799 didn't do? Now we don't have any money to do 458 00:28:45.279 --> 00:28:48.119 this diagonal thing you're talking about. But let me before 459 00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:50.279 I let lots of folks on, let me bring you 460 00:28:50.359 --> 00:28:53.640 to railways to sorry to waterways, because we've done rail 461 00:28:53.720 --> 00:28:56.200 a bit, with downe roads a bit. We're gonna come 462 00:28:56.200 --> 00:28:57.880 back to them. Look at water wasys A. Can I 463 00:28:57.880 --> 00:29:01.200 share the waterways map in Nigeria. It's possible to go 464 00:29:01.240 --> 00:29:05.480 from Kaduna to a Saba by water, possibly go to 465 00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:09.359 Yola to a Saba by water. I mean if you 466 00:29:09.400 --> 00:29:12.759 really invest, if you literally invest, you can go from 467 00:29:12.799 --> 00:29:19.440 Gusau to a Saba by water. I mean it sounds improbable, 468 00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:23.160 but if Nigeria was Amsterdam or America, they would have 469 00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:25.480 done it. By now. From Gusau you can go from 470 00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:31.720 Gusau to Sokoto, then to burning Kevy, true kindi Toru Mina, 471 00:29:31.799 --> 00:29:35.240 true to Lokoja and then true to a Saba. I 472 00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:38.519 hear you talk about loko Ja. Bypass. There are barges. 473 00:29:38.599 --> 00:29:41.079 We can put an inland port in Lokoja that will 474 00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:44.799 just take barges directly from Yenoga or Worry straight to 475 00:29:44.839 --> 00:29:48.400 Lokoja and then up north via the water, not rails, 476 00:29:48.920 --> 00:29:51.000 not roads, and I think it's a bit cheaper. Will 477 00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:55.000 not lay in rails. You can't go and steal the 478 00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:58.160 the the real God and all that kind of stuff. 479 00:29:58.200 --> 00:30:00.640 So is there any roole for war time? Is going 480 00:30:00.680 --> 00:30:02.759 to be the last question to speak for what I 481 00:30:02.960 --> 00:30:07.160 is to integrate this road, real and water in Nigeria. Again, guys, 482 00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:10.519 the forgraphic sharing case on the folow the picture looking 483 00:30:10.519 --> 00:30:12.440 at telling you you've got the. 484 00:30:12.359 --> 00:30:16.559 Floor, okay, thank you. So in terms of in terms 485 00:30:16.559 --> 00:30:18.359 of waterways. 486 00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:22.160 The the waterways can. 487 00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:31.519 Definitely augment our transportation transportation network. The the thing is 488 00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:41.079 like each each mode serves a serves a different utility. 489 00:30:41.440 --> 00:30:45.720 So if the waterways is good for like low value 490 00:30:46.839 --> 00:30:56.480 high weight commodities like if you're moving gravel, building materials, cement, 491 00:30:56.839 --> 00:31:03.759 if you're moving steel, you're moving or and so it's 492 00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:08.519 that the waterways make a very good also agricultural products 493 00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:11.400 because those those that tend to have a lot of 494 00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:12.640 a lot of weight. 495 00:31:16.599 --> 00:31:18.720 And water doesn't have water has. 496 00:31:20.519 --> 00:31:23.720 It's not as it's it's always it's cheaper per kilogram 497 00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:29.160 to move water move on water, but you have a uh, 498 00:31:29.319 --> 00:31:32.680 it's not as fast, so you so you tend to 499 00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:37.079 move goods that are not very time sensitive onto the 500 00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:40.119 bargains that are heavier and non time sensitive. 501 00:31:40.519 --> 00:31:42.960 And rail and road is faster. 502 00:31:44.200 --> 00:31:53.599 Road has more, Road has more distribution points access points 503 00:31:54.279 --> 00:31:59.319 than real has. Real has fewer access points. But everything, 504 00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:04.200 you can integrate everything together. In terms of our waterways. Uh, 505 00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:06.279 the so in the. 506 00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:08.559 Northern reaches of the northern reaches of. 507 00:32:08.519 --> 00:32:11.920 The countries, yes, those are rivers, but there are lots 508 00:32:11.920 --> 00:32:17.839 of lots of rapids, so they're not like actually connected. 509 00:32:18.519 --> 00:32:26.720 The only like useful waterway section is the AH from 510 00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:30.480 the Gulf to local Ja and then you go and 511 00:32:30.519 --> 00:32:35.279 then you go east on the on the Benley River. 512 00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:39.160 So that's the only I would say, if we want 513 00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:42.480 to use a major. 514 00:32:42.119 --> 00:32:48.680 Water AH water corridor, So that's the only that's the 515 00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:49.200 only one. 516 00:32:49.240 --> 00:32:51.519 But it needs a lot of it needs a lot 517 00:32:51.519 --> 00:32:52.119 of investment. 518 00:32:52.240 --> 00:32:52.880 It needs. 519 00:32:54.680 --> 00:32:56.440 Then I mean, you know when we had the one 520 00:32:56.519 --> 00:32:57.079 that we didn't know what. 521 00:32:58.680 --> 00:32:59.160 One thing with. 522 00:32:59.240 --> 00:33:01.240 Dredging it is not a one time thing. 523 00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:05.359 The d because because because. 524 00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:10.920 Of the gradients of the slope and also the just 525 00:33:10.960 --> 00:33:14.359 the nature of the rivers, you have to constantly dredge. 526 00:33:14.440 --> 00:33:17.039 So it's you. So it's so that's. 527 00:33:16.839 --> 00:33:20.079 The maintenance that's needed to maintain maintain those waterways. 528 00:33:20.359 --> 00:33:22.960 So you have to constantly dredge them. And then you 529 00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:25.599 have you have to you have link. 530 00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:31.519 You have a limitation on how the amount of uh 531 00:33:32.759 --> 00:33:35.680 draft that you get in the dry season, so that 532 00:33:35.720 --> 00:33:38.319 will also reduce the carrying capacity of the river. 533 00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:41.720 But yes, it can be and it should. 534 00:33:41.400 --> 00:33:45.160 Be incorporated into the transportation network. For example, we have 535 00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:50.799 like we see the I've always pushed back against all 536 00:33:50.920 --> 00:33:53.440 the agitation. 537 00:33:53.119 --> 00:33:56.920 For deep sea port in the in the in the eastern. 538 00:33:56.559 --> 00:34:00.400 Part of Nigeria because you have to building for structure 539 00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:02.559 where it makes where it makes sense. In terms of 540 00:34:02.599 --> 00:34:07.279 port infrastructure, focusing on the same thing, we focusing on bottlenecks, 541 00:34:08.079 --> 00:34:16.199 focusing on bordernecks generates more value than spreading. Spreading your 542 00:34:16.519 --> 00:34:24.519 spend on new on new ports. So if we focus 543 00:34:24.679 --> 00:34:29.360 on the bottleneck that is legos, so that is where 544 00:34:29.400 --> 00:34:32.639 all the investments should go for ports, and then we 545 00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:34.679 have an interconnected system. 546 00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:37.920 Where for example, you have the big ships who. 547 00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:41.800 Come to Leky and then the barges will leave Leggy 548 00:34:42.239 --> 00:34:43.400 Leggy and. 549 00:34:43.800 --> 00:34:48.639 Distribute to the other smaller ports Sailorry or Caaba. 550 00:34:49.079 --> 00:34:54.800 And also the barges will take some of that cargo 551 00:34:55.239 --> 00:34:59.119 operator to on NHR loco Ja and you have a 552 00:34:59.199 --> 00:35:03.400 system where the rest of manager can still be served, 553 00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:08.840 but we are doing it more efficiently because no major 554 00:35:09.679 --> 00:35:15.360 carrier is going to haul at some port in. 555 00:35:17.280 --> 00:35:20.880 Ibaka because that's not where the demand is. 556 00:35:20.920 --> 00:35:22.079 They're going away with demanded. 557 00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:25.559 So all the major ships are going to call at Legos. 558 00:35:25.840 --> 00:35:28.639 So what we need to do is how to integrate 559 00:35:28.760 --> 00:35:30.760 that into the rest of the system. 560 00:35:31.119 --> 00:35:36.119 So and I just shared again, I just shared told 561 00:35:36.760 --> 00:35:39.800 like a budge these flat barges that are using in Germany. 562 00:35:40.159 --> 00:35:42.719 They can go very very low draft if you look 563 00:35:42.719 --> 00:35:44.400 on the on the time I just shared one of 564 00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:49.360 those barges. Again, I think we need to port one 565 00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:52.440 in Legos and one of the far side of Nigeria, 566 00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:56.119 maybe in Calabar or Aqui Bums somewhere like that where 567 00:35:56.159 --> 00:35:58.719 they are the sapal ones that are smart when compared 568 00:35:58.719 --> 00:36:01.960 to Legos. So you have two entry point just for redundancies. 569 00:36:02.119 --> 00:36:04.880 Right again, you can have a deep seaport in Legos 570 00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:06.880 and like you have a deep seaport in our back, 571 00:36:07.239 --> 00:36:09.519 the deep seaports in our back serves and north east 572 00:36:09.559 --> 00:36:12.400 side the deep seaport, and like it serves the south 573 00:36:12.880 --> 00:36:15.199 the north west side of the country. And you have 574 00:36:15.280 --> 00:36:18.639 that redundancy, you ufload the goods and the deep sea 575 00:36:18.719 --> 00:36:23.440 port is transshipped there. These inner ports into the inner 576 00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:27.559 cities very real and all that. It's possible, you know, 577 00:36:28.119 --> 00:36:33.519 it's possible. I just think that in terms of a comprehensive, 578 00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:42.159 comprehensive infrastructure addresses rail, waterways, roads together, I don't think 579 00:36:42.199 --> 00:36:44.840 we're there. You know, we always have a minister will 580 00:36:44.880 --> 00:36:46.760 come in and say I'm going to build airport that 581 00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:49.480 means of aviation. We don't have a minister I'm going 582 00:36:49.519 --> 00:36:51.800 to build the roads. We have a Minister of transports. 583 00:36:51.800 --> 00:36:53.760 I'm going to build the rail. We should have had 584 00:36:53.760 --> 00:36:57.559 by now a coordinative minister of infrastructure that will say 585 00:36:57.599 --> 00:37:01.360 what we want to achieve. If we're going to what's exports, 586 00:37:02.239 --> 00:37:05.239 then the infrastructure should be targeted at where we are 587 00:37:05.239 --> 00:37:09.840 making the largest export. Right Couco cash you not bring 588 00:37:10.400 --> 00:37:14.000 the infant, bring these goods out of the rural areas 589 00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:17.199 to the towns where they are warehouse either fair rail 590 00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:20.039 or water with and then thing to the port. If 591 00:37:20.079 --> 00:37:24.199 we're doing local consumption, then East West roads to move 592 00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:28.199 those goods and people across Nigeria so we can consume. 593 00:37:28.480 --> 00:37:31.119 But it seems that and the roads are a great example, 594 00:37:31.119 --> 00:37:33.280 and we're gonna get others speak now. Roads are a 595 00:37:33.239 --> 00:37:37.480 great example. We have the Eastern East West Road, it's abandoned. 596 00:37:38.039 --> 00:37:41.199 That's very very important. Rates abandoned. We have the East 597 00:37:41.239 --> 00:37:46.519 West Coastal Highway railway, it's abandoned. Now we have the 598 00:37:46.599 --> 00:37:50.639 coastal road. What's the difference with the coastal Road and 599 00:37:50.760 --> 00:37:53.039 the East West Road. The messages said now they're going 600 00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:57.199 to move the road more into the hinterland because of course, 601 00:37:57.199 --> 00:38:00.960 you can't build roads or bridges on the swamps in 602 00:38:01.039 --> 00:38:04.519 two years. It's not possible. Anyone thinking that we're going 603 00:38:04.559 --> 00:38:08.719 to build and a coastal railway in eight years doesn't 604 00:38:08.800 --> 00:38:12.960 understand how roads are built in a swamp. So time, man, 605 00:38:13.039 --> 00:38:14.880 if you want to respond or let me let let 606 00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:17.840 others come in now and trying to have more questions. 607 00:38:17.880 --> 00:38:22.159 But my issue is the integration looking at it as 608 00:38:21.960 --> 00:38:28.159 a Nigeria as a whole and then to integrate rail road, airport, 609 00:38:28.400 --> 00:38:32.960 waterways into one and then attach it to the economic 610 00:38:33.039 --> 00:38:36.199 plan of Nigeria. We seem not to be doing that 611 00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:38.599 and that's really my issue. 612 00:38:40.239 --> 00:38:45.280 Yeah, definitely, there is the routes of the coastal road 613 00:38:45.480 --> 00:38:46.280 is just like. 614 00:38:47.719 --> 00:38:54.079 The terrain is that's the nightmarriage terrain. Looking at the SIA. 615 00:38:53.599 --> 00:38:58.519 Correct the going through all that swamp, all that multiple 616 00:38:58.559 --> 00:39:01.719 bridges that are going to be needed swamp in Marshland. 617 00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:03.760 Yeah, I think. 618 00:39:03.719 --> 00:39:05.920 It's like there's nobody living there. 619 00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:10.239 But it's the point. Is the point again, if you 620 00:39:10.360 --> 00:39:12.960 raise this point on Twitter, if you say the road 621 00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:15.840 should not be built, you're going to get abuse. But 622 00:39:15.960 --> 00:39:18.400 the point I make again is this the East West 623 00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:22.480 Road is connecting the state away from the coast. You know, 624 00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:24.840 if you go to America, they have their roads on 625 00:39:24.880 --> 00:39:28.159 the coast, but they don't have that. There's no Florida 626 00:39:28.360 --> 00:39:33.559 Everglades Highway. There's California, no scenic routes, wasn't on that road. 627 00:39:33.639 --> 00:39:37.360 There's I five, but they don't have in Nigeria. Once 628 00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:41.119 you go from Legos to Orgon, it stops to go 629 00:39:41.239 --> 00:39:46.159 from that Orgon to to Bielsa to Calabar. Do you 630 00:39:46.199 --> 00:39:49.159 know how many bridges you're gonna build and you want 631 00:39:49.159 --> 00:39:52.159 to build that in eighty years with which how much 632 00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:56.000 one point three trillion? That's a nira version of what 633 00:39:56.079 --> 00:39:59.039 want to build. So it's not going to happen. We're 634 00:39:59.079 --> 00:40:02.159 not being persive, missed stick, it's just not going to happen. 635 00:40:02.480 --> 00:40:04.800 So maybe the moneys have been spelled to do the 636 00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:08.519 East West Road and perhaps fix up the other roads. 637 00:40:08.519 --> 00:40:11.559 Like you're talking about local. Local is more important for 638 00:40:11.599 --> 00:40:15.800 the food for the inflation than a new, brand new project. 639 00:40:15.800 --> 00:40:18.159 And again we've not talked about the Soco too to 640 00:40:18.320 --> 00:40:21.920 lego us. It's now called an intercontinental high way or 641 00:40:21.960 --> 00:40:24.639 something like that. You know it's the Minister of Power 642 00:40:24.920 --> 00:40:29.320 uses these words and so but standing hanging the time, 643 00:40:29.360 --> 00:40:32.000 let's get order us to speak, get a free bud afree. 644 00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:34.559 How are you doing? You've had what we've been speaking 645 00:40:34.559 --> 00:40:39.400 about with autonomy, talking about the the infrastructure Nigeria and 646 00:40:39.400 --> 00:40:42.039 how it is thor really tied to economic growth. How 647 00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:44.159 I want to build the road, but that road is 648 00:40:44.199 --> 00:40:47.679 not tied to what our economic plan is. If we 649 00:40:47.800 --> 00:40:51.239 want a one trillion dollar economy and now I think 650 00:40:51.280 --> 00:40:53.719 it's going to be eight years now what you will 651 00:40:53.760 --> 00:40:56.440 be investing, that's what we're talking about. So everybody, you've 652 00:40:56.440 --> 00:41:00.599 got the filosoph I can't get it, Yes I can. 653 00:41:02.039 --> 00:41:04.360 Yeah, we clearly that's the biggest problem. 654 00:41:04.360 --> 00:41:05.679 Oh yeah yah, yeah, yeah, you're fine. 655 00:41:07.119 --> 00:41:09.039 Yeah, I think yeah, it's a timely drop. 656 00:41:09.119 --> 00:41:13.679 The infrastructure is always key. Well targets that infrastructure. 657 00:41:13.119 --> 00:41:15.559 Development is always key to develop the growth. 658 00:41:16.119 --> 00:41:18.760 And I'm I'm actually grateful to have this bad because 659 00:41:18.760 --> 00:41:22.199 I actually have a few questions as far as just figures. 660 00:41:22.840 --> 00:41:27.159 So you've mentioned a bit about your points, and I 661 00:41:27.639 --> 00:41:29.599 want to understand myself. 662 00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:33.239 Just the cost of to the Nigeri economy if you 663 00:41:33.239 --> 00:41:35.519 do have those figures on the cost of the Nagery 664 00:41:35.519 --> 00:41:39.239 economy of the current points, that's the first question. The 665 00:41:39.440 --> 00:41:43.119 question is if you have been painting a picture to 666 00:41:43.440 --> 00:41:47.000 government politicians, what do you see. 667 00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:52.159 As the biggest the prospect on what in value at 668 00:41:52.159 --> 00:41:56.679 the moment, Let's say if we have because currently it's 669 00:41:56.719 --> 00:41:59.920 always good government. Government budget is always going to be limited. 670 00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:04.639 If you had to target certain projects or certain areas 671 00:42:05.159 --> 00:42:09.159 to have the largest impact, now, what areas would that 672 00:42:09.239 --> 00:42:11.760 be and if you have you have a sense of 673 00:42:11.800 --> 00:42:14.679 figures as well on that on how much value by 674 00:42:14.760 --> 00:42:18.920 leaving on the table, by having by targeting these specific 675 00:42:18.920 --> 00:42:19.840 project So I. 676 00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:22.400 Just give those first two questions if you can give 677 00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:22.760 us some. 678 00:42:22.800 --> 00:42:29.360 Light on that. Thanks, Thanks Eppable for those questions. So 679 00:42:29.480 --> 00:42:30.480 for the first one. 680 00:42:30.320 --> 00:42:35.760 In terms of the costs for the choke points. 681 00:42:35.480 --> 00:42:42.880 I don't have any any value on what's the costs 682 00:42:42.880 --> 00:42:43.599 of those. 683 00:42:43.480 --> 00:42:47.599 Choke points to the coignland during economy. And also for 684 00:42:47.719 --> 00:42:50.159 the other probably or for the other one. In terms 685 00:42:50.159 --> 00:42:55.320 of the second question about the biggest prospect to unlock 686 00:42:55.440 --> 00:43:04.760 value for if I would say, if it is for 687 00:43:04.920 --> 00:43:08.480 all the for all the info, for all the different 688 00:43:08.519 --> 00:43:13.679 forms of infrastructure in Nigeria, something that will unlock the 689 00:43:13.679 --> 00:43:17.159 most value right now, if we like just put money 690 00:43:17.159 --> 00:43:19.239 on it. 691 00:43:18.280 --> 00:43:18.840 Would be. 692 00:43:20.280 --> 00:43:24.559 A Legos to mad Degree highway that will unlock because 693 00:43:25.039 --> 00:43:28.039 there it will because it doesn't just serve Legos and 694 00:43:28.119 --> 00:43:32.239 the Degree, it serves a vast amount of the population 695 00:43:32.320 --> 00:43:36.360 along the corridor. So that will unlock a lot of value. 696 00:43:36.400 --> 00:43:42.039 I don't know what the monetary value is, but definitely 697 00:43:42.079 --> 00:43:49.599 that would unlock a lot across different UH value change 698 00:43:49.679 --> 00:43:51.480 within within. 699 00:43:52.719 --> 00:43:54.079 Nigeria and and. 700 00:43:55.480 --> 00:43:58.280 Uh and I would say a second a second to 701 00:43:58.360 --> 00:44:02.960 that will be a will linkage between legals on each 702 00:44:02.960 --> 00:44:06.360 other port hardcore. So those are the two Those are 703 00:44:06.400 --> 00:44:08.960 the two items that I will say will unlock the 704 00:44:09.000 --> 00:44:12.360 most value for the country in terms of infrastructure. 705 00:44:13.239 --> 00:44:16.719 After it is why you want the monetary value just 706 00:44:16.719 --> 00:44:17.679 just curious. 707 00:44:18.320 --> 00:44:21.519 Because in Jerry speaking of an infrastructure, if we're very realistic, 708 00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:26.719 government budgets always limited and in painted and pictures it's 709 00:44:26.760 --> 00:44:29.599 clear that infrastructure is to be required. But in painting 710 00:44:29.599 --> 00:44:32.599 and pictures to politicians or ministers, that's assume they were 711 00:44:32.639 --> 00:44:37.239 doing this properly. Understanding the daily cost, monthly cost of word, 712 00:44:37.840 --> 00:44:42.079 some sort of QUANTIFI will figure on what leaving or 713 00:44:42.159 --> 00:44:45.000 infrastructure in certain areas, certain truck codes as they are 714 00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:49.280 really kind of brings it home for lots of people, 715 00:44:49.400 --> 00:44:52.400 especially maybe politicians who don't really understand the. 716 00:44:52.320 --> 00:44:55.159 Importance of it, why it's so immediate, and. 717 00:44:55.079 --> 00:44:59.000 Also they're we targeted, we targeted infrastructure developments. It's all 718 00:44:59.000 --> 00:45:02.159 like again when you we you put pretty put value 719 00:45:02.159 --> 00:45:04.880 and you see it in these studies, infrastructure studies of 720 00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:08.480 what it means. They take you take the UK for example, 721 00:45:08.480 --> 00:45:11.440 when you had the High speed and the HS to 722 00:45:11.599 --> 00:45:14.920 debate that's been going on for ten years, that most 723 00:45:14.920 --> 00:45:17.559 of the people people supporting that project focused on how 724 00:45:17.639 --> 00:45:19.519 much value has been unlocked in terms of figures, in 725 00:45:19.599 --> 00:45:22.000 terms of the economy. Was a contribution to the cities 726 00:45:22.039 --> 00:45:24.480 that that way was going to pass through? And that's 727 00:45:24.559 --> 00:45:26.679 what I really got over the line when it was 728 00:45:26.679 --> 00:45:29.760 being debated. So I just that's why that's probably wanted 729 00:45:29.760 --> 00:45:31.519 to get a sense if in those figures, if we 730 00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:34.239 had I know it's not easy days to come across, 731 00:45:34.320 --> 00:45:38.840 but it paints a picture when you put a sort 732 00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:42.519 of a monetary value on it, and it brings it home, 733 00:45:42.599 --> 00:45:46.440 especially because we understand it perstructor is important. But when 734 00:45:46.440 --> 00:45:49.800 you're looking at hard figures, it makes it easier for 735 00:45:50.440 --> 00:45:51.440 this idea. 736 00:45:51.440 --> 00:45:52.880 It should make it easier for this politicians. 737 00:45:52.880 --> 00:45:55.000 I would say this if I was with the President 738 00:45:55.039 --> 00:45:56.840 and I was with the Senate and they said, listen, 739 00:45:56.960 --> 00:45:59.199 how much did this cost? I would say, there, it's nothing, 740 00:45:59.400 --> 00:46:01.559 no project that's gonna be listed. It's gonna cost you 741 00:46:01.719 --> 00:46:04.320 less than two billion. When I mean two billion, I 742 00:46:04.360 --> 00:46:07.639 mean to start, not to complete two you have to 743 00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:11.920 have two billion funding lined up to start, not to complete. 744 00:46:11.960 --> 00:46:14.519 It's gonna get get to ten, but have two. That's 745 00:46:14.599 --> 00:46:17.039 number one. So how when you if you say how 746 00:46:17.079 --> 00:46:19.400 do you pay for it, You're gonna get into the 747 00:46:19.400 --> 00:46:22.360 the moraleitis. It's gonna be more of what's the benefit. 748 00:46:23.159 --> 00:46:27.159 So imagine, if, for instance, we built now a ten 749 00:46:27.280 --> 00:46:30.320 lane roup because we have a ten lane expressway from 750 00:46:30.400 --> 00:46:33.840 the paper port, it goes all do with my Papa 751 00:46:33.920 --> 00:46:37.920 port to a Jota. It stops at Jota. It doesn't 752 00:46:37.920 --> 00:46:41.880 go left. Ojota is going north, right, then east is 753 00:46:41.880 --> 00:46:44.880 going to the to the toargate, if you build from 754 00:46:44.960 --> 00:46:49.199 that target point in Legos a ten lane with a railway, 755 00:46:49.480 --> 00:46:54.199 two railway lines, five road lines from that point, no Jota, 756 00:46:54.599 --> 00:46:57.039 you're going all the way to Midi. It was gonna 757 00:46:57.039 --> 00:47:01.960 go straight through Abuja to mid Degree. Essentially, the income 758 00:47:02.039 --> 00:47:04.679 you are going to make in the next fifty years 759 00:47:04.679 --> 00:47:08.400 when your party has left office will be fifty or 760 00:47:08.440 --> 00:47:12.360 one hundred x what you spent on that road, because 761 00:47:12.400 --> 00:47:15.199 they're going to be brand new towns created that wouldn't 762 00:47:15.239 --> 00:47:21.039 have today, Brand new towns created, brand newcommers. Many folks 763 00:47:21.039 --> 00:47:24.119 in chad ni Je will then use that port because 764 00:47:24.119 --> 00:47:26.079 it's going to be just trying to shape going the 765 00:47:26.079 --> 00:47:29.639 expert on the train all the way down. So it's 766 00:47:29.639 --> 00:47:32.920 a two billion to start, but you'll get the money 767 00:47:32.920 --> 00:47:37.960 back in fifteen years in v eighty in c and 768 00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:40.519 all that. That's the way to position it. But why 769 00:47:40.519 --> 00:47:43.280 they don't do it, it's because going to you're not 770 00:47:43.320 --> 00:47:46.159 going to rip the rewards in eighty years. If nobody 771 00:47:46.159 --> 00:47:48.039 wants to do it today. Even if he wants to 772 00:47:48.039 --> 00:47:50.679 do it today, his folks are gonna tell him, we 773 00:47:50.719 --> 00:47:53.400 don't get any vote from doing this, because if you 774 00:47:53.480 --> 00:47:55.599 do it today, it's going to be the party in 775 00:47:56.039 --> 00:47:59.480 thirty years that will get this. I give good example. 776 00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:05.079 Log Jonathan did the Legos the Abuja Tona Express standard gauge. 777 00:48:05.360 --> 00:48:08.920 It was the first commercial standard gage understand in Africa 778 00:48:09.119 --> 00:48:12.440 subplant Africa. The first the first was the e was 779 00:48:12.440 --> 00:48:14.559 the attacked by one. But I was not commercial, so 780 00:48:14.679 --> 00:48:18.000 that was commercial not consumer. But when he built it, 781 00:48:18.079 --> 00:48:21.000 he built the rails, did everything. He neither just the 782 00:48:21.119 --> 00:48:24.679 ice on the cake. He left office. But Harry comes 783 00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:27.719 does the ice in does the commissioning. If you go 784 00:48:27.800 --> 00:48:30.000 online to then you see the arguments is going on. 785 00:48:30.039 --> 00:48:34.920 Who builds Abuja to Cardinal Railway. So no politician in Nigeria, 786 00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:37.400 that's the way they think. Eighty years, I won't get 787 00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:40.639 the glory. And once you don't think of fifteen twenty 788 00:48:40.719 --> 00:48:43.760 years is gone. How long was the three Gorges down built? 789 00:48:43.800 --> 00:48:45.800 The three Gorges downe in China? How long was it build? 790 00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:49.039 Was it built in ten years? But if you have 791 00:48:49.360 --> 00:48:53.079 an eighty years cycle where your parties are loses pine 792 00:48:53.079 --> 00:48:56.039 in four years or you your part can stay in office, 793 00:48:56.079 --> 00:48:58.400 but you are going to go in eight years, it's 794 00:48:58.920 --> 00:49:04.199 very difficult how to do infrastructure. Very That's just how 795 00:49:04.199 --> 00:49:06.239 I'll put that. Yeah. 796 00:49:06.039 --> 00:49:09.239 Yeah, you see the evidence today, the long development. It's 797 00:49:09.280 --> 00:49:12.199 not eighty twenty thirty fifty and. 798 00:49:12.159 --> 00:49:15.800 You forget about it. Yeah. So it's a great question. 799 00:49:15.920 --> 00:49:18.440 Is that what you want to ask? Let me gound 800 00:49:18.440 --> 00:49:19.440 the room, let him. 801 00:49:19.599 --> 00:49:20.599 Ask my questions. 802 00:49:20.639 --> 00:49:22.639 Okay, I have some other things to letting. 803 00:49:22.519 --> 00:49:28.239 Go perfect, All right, let me get a Chuka checker. 804 00:49:28.320 --> 00:49:30.239 Your handles up, you've got the flow, Please go ahead? 805 00:49:31.039 --> 00:49:31.639 Yeah, thank you. 806 00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:37.519 Believing Carlo, beliving in atonomy now is one day I 807 00:49:37.800 --> 00:49:40.039 from what you guys have said, we can look at 808 00:49:40.079 --> 00:49:43.400 the east west through this is the most economic viable 809 00:49:43.440 --> 00:49:46.880 way and mostly we are hitting on funding. So I 810 00:49:46.960 --> 00:49:49.840 just want to know, like, because you just said little 811 00:49:50.159 --> 00:49:53.079 about the eighties plan and the governments are like My 812 00:49:53.199 --> 00:49:57.280 question just basically goes, how can Nigia attract privacy investment, 813 00:49:57.400 --> 00:50:03.960 like people put the investment on this infrastructural development looking 814 00:50:03.960 --> 00:50:07.079 at the kind of the government and the politics being 815 00:50:07.119 --> 00:50:10.960 played in the country. So to first track the East 816 00:50:11.039 --> 00:50:13.559 Wish rail line and the road. 817 00:50:13.960 --> 00:50:17.840 That's my question to America can answer. But let me 818 00:50:18.159 --> 00:50:19.599 just give me a thing. I think the key idea 819 00:50:19.760 --> 00:50:24.079 is trust. Nigeria can raise all this money, all this 820 00:50:24.239 --> 00:50:28.719 money internally and also externally from her dasper. But can 821 00:50:28.800 --> 00:50:31.440 you imagine which governor do you think can go to 822 00:50:31.599 --> 00:50:35.000 a meeting of the daspora in say uk or say 823 00:50:35.239 --> 00:50:37.599 Dallas and say, I want you guys to give me 824 00:50:37.639 --> 00:50:40.400 a million dollars. If you give million dollars, I'm going 825 00:50:40.440 --> 00:50:42.840 to build a real way to connect this town to 826 00:50:42.920 --> 00:50:45.519 this town. And you think, how many governments do you 827 00:50:45.519 --> 00:50:48.239 think in Niger can go to that meeting, make that 828 00:50:48.400 --> 00:50:51.679 promise and get a million dollars? Very very few, very 829 00:50:51.800 --> 00:50:55.199 very few. So if you have a president that the 830 00:50:55.400 --> 00:50:58.199 people trust, this is Dally to people trust. It's not 831 00:50:58.239 --> 00:51:00.119 to come on you and say I support you, know, 832 00:51:00.519 --> 00:51:03.960 to say, if I give this president in my tax 833 00:51:04.119 --> 00:51:07.960 money from America, from the UK, from China, either I 834 00:51:08.000 --> 00:51:11.800 give you social investments or I buy an impact bond. 835 00:51:12.159 --> 00:51:15.000 If you're Nigeria raised an impact bond of say let's 836 00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:18.679 just say five billion. If you give pull five billion 837 00:51:18.760 --> 00:51:21.039 a bank in America, they will pay you four percent 838 00:51:21.159 --> 00:51:24.519 five percent. That's a CD like a bond. Right, Nijer 839 00:51:24.599 --> 00:51:26.960 will not pay four five percent. Nija currently is paying 840 00:51:27.239 --> 00:51:31.320 eight percent, so we're paying double. But if I go 841 00:51:31.440 --> 00:51:33.800 to you, I'm from a halfare right. If I go 842 00:51:33.840 --> 00:51:36.159 to the pillar for halfare in American and I say, guys, 843 00:51:36.239 --> 00:51:39.920 I want to build a falling expressway from a half 844 00:51:39.960 --> 00:51:42.320 fare to a bar, it's going to cost us a 845 00:51:42.400 --> 00:51:45.159 million dollars. I want you guys to buy my bond. 846 00:51:45.159 --> 00:51:48.440 This bond only pay you point one percent. It's called 847 00:51:48.480 --> 00:51:52.480 an impact bond. People will invest not because of the returns, 848 00:51:52.960 --> 00:51:55.159 but because there's going to be a highway there. It 849 00:51:55.199 --> 00:51:57.639 will help that will back home. But they will only 850 00:51:57.679 --> 00:52:00.719 give that money away if they trust me to take 851 00:52:00.760 --> 00:52:03.960 that money and build that road. So in Nigeria does 852 00:52:04.280 --> 00:52:07.880 an impact bond to the people that does brand say, guys, 853 00:52:07.920 --> 00:52:11.280 it's a one percent bond. Everyone investing that one percent 854 00:52:11.320 --> 00:52:14.079 bond knows they are not doing it because of returns. No, 855 00:52:14.599 --> 00:52:16.920 you buy the bond in America, you get a tax 856 00:52:16.960 --> 00:52:19.480 right off. We can organize it that way. But the 857 00:52:19.559 --> 00:52:23.159 Nigerians have got to trust that the politicians back home 858 00:52:23.599 --> 00:52:26.440 will invest that money. If there is no trust, then 859 00:52:26.440 --> 00:52:28.719 you have to go commercial. That's why Nigeria is paying 860 00:52:29.360 --> 00:52:32.920 eight percent to borrow for thirty years in dollar terms, 861 00:52:33.280 --> 00:52:37.840 because the Nigerian DASPRU does not trust the Nigerian politicians 862 00:52:38.360 --> 00:52:41.800 go to America. How much to just China borrowed my dask? 863 00:52:42.119 --> 00:52:44.440 How much does India Pakistan borrow of my dask? But 864 00:52:44.519 --> 00:52:46.320 they don't pay eight percent. I'm not going to talk 865 00:52:46.360 --> 00:52:50.519 about the bonds. But when you have trust the Koreans, 866 00:52:50.519 --> 00:52:52.880 how they invest back home? The Chinese they have a 867 00:52:52.960 --> 00:52:56.679 thousand talents program in Chinese where you can go back 868 00:52:56.719 --> 00:52:59.760 to China and invest your or whatever. That's the problem. 869 00:53:00.079 --> 00:53:03.320 So there's no trust that people will ask it for commercials. 870 00:53:03.360 --> 00:53:05.840 Don't I give you an If I know you, you block 871 00:53:05.880 --> 00:53:07.400 me and you say, my guy, I can see how 872 00:53:08.400 --> 00:53:12.519 i'll give you. But if I don't know you me 873 00:53:12.880 --> 00:53:16.719 posited check and at ten percent, that's just it because 874 00:53:16.719 --> 00:53:19.159 I don't know, I don't trust you, so to me, 875 00:53:19.440 --> 00:53:21.519 I don't know if you If you're taking this question, 876 00:53:21.519 --> 00:53:22.519 I think it's a great question. 877 00:53:24.920 --> 00:53:29.159 Yeah. In terms of in terms of funding for big 878 00:53:29.280 --> 00:53:33.840 infrastructure projects, the. 879 00:53:35.519 --> 00:53:39.960 Uh, the only. 880 00:53:41.199 --> 00:53:43.639 The only way that they can get off the ground 881 00:53:43.880 --> 00:53:48.760 is if the government funds funds the project, even from 882 00:53:49.280 --> 00:53:57.760 the budget or by taking on launch the the current 883 00:53:57.840 --> 00:54:00.880 legals the legals Color Highway, they say it's thirty percent 884 00:54:01.000 --> 00:54:06.360 of funded funded from the budget and there they haven't 885 00:54:06.400 --> 00:54:12.039 secured loans yet, but supposedly they're going to get seventy 886 00:54:12.079 --> 00:54:15.440 percent of the rest of the funding from a different 887 00:54:16.159 --> 00:54:24.320 consortium of international lenders. In terms of bringing private investors 888 00:54:24.360 --> 00:54:29.039 into infrastructure, the thing with a lot of these infrastructure 889 00:54:29.039 --> 00:54:30.000 projects is. 890 00:54:33.480 --> 00:54:41.039 The the value is not it's not like a highly 891 00:54:41.159 --> 00:54:46.000 profitable adventure because a lot of the value is distributed 892 00:54:46.159 --> 00:54:48.039 across different sectors, so. 893 00:54:47.920 --> 00:54:53.280 It's not it's not something that that will be very 894 00:54:53.360 --> 00:54:57.039 lucrative as a private investor to put your money into. 895 00:54:57.920 --> 00:55:04.599 So it's going to be difficult to secure privating to 896 00:55:04.639 --> 00:55:07.960 secure private investment to fund major. 897 00:55:07.599 --> 00:55:09.639 Infrastructure projects that we need. 898 00:55:09.639 --> 00:55:13.079 Just because of that reason that they're not the most 899 00:55:13.159 --> 00:55:19.119 lucrative forms of lucrative avenues for investment. So the government 900 00:55:19.280 --> 00:55:22.400 has to do the heavy lifting and funding those projects. 901 00:55:22.400 --> 00:55:24.079 And if you look at Nigeria in terms. 902 00:55:23.840 --> 00:55:26.920 Of all the major projects that we have, they've all 903 00:55:26.960 --> 00:55:31.480 been they've all been government funded because if we wait 904 00:55:32.519 --> 00:55:37.559 for private investment is never going to happen because the 905 00:55:37.599 --> 00:55:40.239 amount of money that you need to do it is 906 00:55:40.280 --> 00:55:40.599 a lot. 907 00:55:40.639 --> 00:55:42.760 And the thing is you. 908 00:55:42.800 --> 00:55:46.000 Need to do it quickly because the longer it takes. 909 00:55:46.239 --> 00:55:48.000 So if you kind of say, oh you're going to 910 00:55:48.320 --> 00:55:50.599 wait to stretch out the fund, the longer it takes 911 00:55:50.679 --> 00:55:56.320 to execute, the more expensive it gets. So it's just 912 00:55:57.559 --> 00:56:00.960 it's just more efficient for the men to even get 913 00:56:00.960 --> 00:56:01.440 it from. 914 00:56:01.239 --> 00:56:03.760 The budget or get secure arm. 915 00:56:06.639 --> 00:56:10.719 Government loans and build a project as quickly as possible 916 00:56:11.320 --> 00:56:14.679 and that way you start getting the benefits of that 917 00:56:14.880 --> 00:56:18.119 infrastructure to the economy from there. 918 00:56:18.760 --> 00:56:20.599 I wanted to lead me that with nias have to 919 00:56:20.679 --> 00:56:23.599 understand this this right, I think the the mindset has 920 00:56:23.639 --> 00:56:26.480 to change. You know, when we had oil in the seventies, 921 00:56:26.519 --> 00:56:30.440 the government built everything. We had the industrial Plan one, two, 922 00:56:30.519 --> 00:56:34.719 and three, where governments built universities, express roads, railways, power, 923 00:56:34.760 --> 00:56:38.840 and I tel that's the wrong model. You cannot develop 924 00:56:39.000 --> 00:56:42.800 a country with governments spending. It's not being done ever. 925 00:56:43.159 --> 00:56:46.199 Go around the world. The rule of the government is 926 00:56:46.239 --> 00:56:51.840 to create the atmosphere for private capital to build up infrastructure. 927 00:56:52.119 --> 00:56:53.840 So if you look at the United States, who build 928 00:56:53.840 --> 00:56:56.239 the railways, who build the roads, who build that, The 929 00:56:56.280 --> 00:56:58.800 government will say we're going to do I five. But 930 00:56:58.840 --> 00:57:01.159 as a building that I five, the private sector is 931 00:57:01.159 --> 00:57:04.800 coming to build restaurants on the I five, hotels, motels 932 00:57:04.800 --> 00:57:08.119 on the I five. That's what makes that project bankable. 933 00:57:08.480 --> 00:57:11.039 So the government can easily go borrow money from the 934 00:57:11.039 --> 00:57:13.719 bank and say, hey, want to build a new express 935 00:57:13.800 --> 00:57:16.960 road at a lower interest rate. Because the bank seat 936 00:57:17.000 --> 00:57:19.760 that wants to build an express road, that road is 937 00:57:19.880 --> 00:57:23.440 bankable because there are industries on both sides. So the 938 00:57:23.480 --> 00:57:26.760 government's rule we same with states, same with local government. 939 00:57:27.000 --> 00:57:29.880 Your job is not to take your budget and build 940 00:57:29.880 --> 00:57:31.840 the road. Your job is to take that budget and 941 00:57:31.960 --> 00:57:35.440 act as a guarante tour either if giving sovereign guarantees 942 00:57:35.840 --> 00:57:38.719 or seed funding. If you look at it that way, 943 00:57:38.760 --> 00:57:42.039 you can build more roads it's not to say that 944 00:57:42.639 --> 00:57:45.840 you can build more with less. No, it's one plus one. 945 00:57:46.239 --> 00:57:49.719 It's a cost to eleven. You take your farc. You 946 00:57:49.840 --> 00:57:52.840 tell the private sector anyone that comes to build a road, 947 00:57:53.079 --> 00:57:55.280 who will pay you? And if we don't pay you, 948 00:57:55.480 --> 00:57:57.000 we're going to use a FARC and we're going to 949 00:57:57.079 --> 00:57:59.559 keep you to the CPN to give you a sovereign guarantee. 950 00:57:59.760 --> 00:58:03.079 So if Joe Begger knows that if they come to 951 00:58:03.119 --> 00:58:05.840 your state, they are going to get paid. Because they 952 00:58:05.840 --> 00:58:08.960 are going to get paid, they reduce their cost of 953 00:58:09.320 --> 00:58:12.480 lending or cost of borrowing because they know that once 954 00:58:13.880 --> 00:58:16.639 when they deploy to that state and they build one 955 00:58:16.679 --> 00:58:20.280 hundred kilometers or whatever, they will get paid. So once 956 00:58:20.320 --> 00:58:22.760 they take that away, that on certainty goes away. They 957 00:58:22.760 --> 00:58:26.039 cost bar mile in your state falls. So you have 958 00:58:26.119 --> 00:58:28.159 to use that and when I just have to get 959 00:58:28.239 --> 00:58:31.400 lend work to pay tolls. If you don't pay tolls, 960 00:58:31.559 --> 00:58:33.760 that's advertising. You know, you can build the road and 961 00:58:33.840 --> 00:58:37.880 say only the guys that paid to the government would 962 00:58:37.920 --> 00:58:42.199 advertise on both on the wrong way. Emptying is building 963 00:58:42.280 --> 00:58:45.119 in Ugo on a chart to Inugo Express was empty 964 00:58:45.159 --> 00:58:47.679 and this building is not the government and emplane is 965 00:58:47.719 --> 00:58:50.840 getting their money back from tax breaks. So it's the 966 00:58:50.880 --> 00:58:53.280 same way the government has got to operate. The government 967 00:58:53.400 --> 00:58:57.320 alone cannot build roads anywhere. So copy what Eterne is doing. 968 00:58:57.559 --> 00:58:59.519 You go back to your localugumentary. You tell you're the 969 00:58:59.519 --> 00:59:02.360 biggest guy in you look outment area. Maybe it's a bar, 970 00:59:02.840 --> 00:59:05.559 maybe it's a manufacturing company. And the laws already there 971 00:59:05.880 --> 00:59:09.000 say if you build this road, there will be absolutely 972 00:59:09.039 --> 00:59:11.519 no taxes for you for the next five years. That's 973 00:59:11.559 --> 00:59:13.960 the way we have to think, because god, man, how 974 00:59:14.039 --> 00:59:17.719 much is our budget? Were on a deficit budget, guys. 975 00:59:17.719 --> 00:59:21.320 I don't give depressive but one hundred percent of the 976 00:59:21.360 --> 00:59:23.920 red venues you get from crude oil and gas, one 977 00:59:23.960 --> 00:59:29.119 hundred percent goes to pay salaries, pensions and allowances of 978 00:59:29.320 --> 00:59:34.679 only federal workers one hundred percent. So any money you 979 00:59:34.719 --> 00:59:37.840 see being spent on infrastructure, on being spent on death 980 00:59:37.880 --> 00:59:41.719 service is all borrowed one hundred percent. There is no 981 00:59:41.920 --> 00:59:45.000 We're not an oil presentation. Leave that on a side. 982 00:59:45.519 --> 00:59:48.119 Just pack that one a side. We've got to survive 983 00:59:48.360 --> 00:59:53.000 on growing the economy and encouraging more private sector guys 984 00:59:53.039 --> 00:59:56.480 to come in and then invest in the country. Shake shake, 985 00:59:56.599 --> 00:59:59.800 c You've got the floor. Tonami is here, go ahead, 986 01:00:00.320 --> 01:00:03.079 shake that you could be analog. 987 01:00:05.360 --> 01:00:08.800 Okay, hi came and Tonami and the very person here. 988 01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:12.360 So mine is more like on the question side because 989 01:00:12.920 --> 01:00:15.840 to an extent sometimes I have a bit like lost 990 01:00:15.840 --> 01:00:18.119 to talk to why it's certain things don't happen. But 991 01:00:18.159 --> 01:00:20.800 I'm just trying to because I've been following Tonami for 992 01:00:20.880 --> 01:00:24.079 a while and I know his very good at transportation. 993 01:00:25.280 --> 01:00:28.719 So you did mention to me you would rather invest 994 01:00:28.760 --> 01:00:32.199 in the chokeholds. And then in terms of when you 995 01:00:32.280 --> 01:00:38.400 talk about the river Ritan transportation, but and then Carlo 996 01:00:38.440 --> 01:00:41.639 also mentioned in terms of going from the far west 997 01:00:41.719 --> 01:00:44.480 to the far east side. But my thought is if 998 01:00:44.480 --> 01:00:49.920 we're looking at connecting the land and in that town 999 01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:52.639 what you call what you call him like River Nigier 1000 01:00:52.760 --> 01:00:57.280 and the River beme Axists, would the ports around the 1001 01:00:57.320 --> 01:00:59.239 delta and not been much more viable? 1002 01:01:00.280 --> 01:01:02.119 What's something I know that yes. 1003 01:01:02.000 --> 01:01:06.280 Because they are very they get they need a lot 1004 01:01:06.320 --> 01:01:08.920 of dredging and maintenance and all of that. But would 1005 01:01:08.960 --> 01:01:12.400 that not be a favorable point because from there we 1006 01:01:12.440 --> 01:01:15.159 can be able to access a lot more in the 1007 01:01:15.159 --> 01:01:18.039 sense that one you can connect the real lines on 1008 01:01:18.119 --> 01:01:21.880 both sides, and you can also be able to now 1009 01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:25.480 use badges to be able to convey more inland and 1010 01:01:25.760 --> 01:01:28.280 upland to the notes and all of that other places. 1011 01:01:28.320 --> 01:01:30.159 So I just wanted to know about that. 1012 01:01:30.360 --> 01:01:33.000 Why is that not something that's been considered and considering 1013 01:01:33.039 --> 01:01:35.599 the fact that these places were part puts in the 1014 01:01:35.719 --> 01:01:38.239 past and that then. 1015 01:01:38.119 --> 01:01:41.159 Also I want you to just understand in terms of from. 1016 01:01:43.320 --> 01:01:47.599 Rail lines in Nigeria, what would you recommend in terms 1017 01:01:47.639 --> 01:01:50.639 of currently I know that there's a worry Cogi States 1018 01:01:50.840 --> 01:01:54.119 and line that has already been done in terms of 1019 01:01:54.360 --> 01:01:58.400 linking that because I conly believe that there's a whole 1020 01:01:58.440 --> 01:02:01.639 lot of economic activity happening the southeast and if we 1021 01:02:01.719 --> 01:02:03.719 talk about one of the easiest points, will that not 1022 01:02:03.800 --> 01:02:05.800 be an easy access to be able to connect that 1023 01:02:05.880 --> 01:02:10.039 real line and connecting const that particular rail line also 1024 01:02:10.119 --> 01:02:13.599 is not too far from a port line. I think 1025 01:02:13.599 --> 01:02:16.239 it's the Cocopa line, so within the Delta State access. 1026 01:02:16.280 --> 01:02:18.079 So I just wanted to see what's your picture in 1027 01:02:18.119 --> 01:02:22.880 terms of Delta States being a significant pots investment and 1028 01:02:23.000 --> 01:02:26.679 what do you think in terms of costing If you 1029 01:02:26.800 --> 01:02:27.840 just have an idea, Thanks for. 1030 01:02:31.000 --> 01:02:35.079 Yeah, thank you shape let me go over the first 1031 01:02:35.079 --> 01:02:36.440 one in terms. 1032 01:02:36.199 --> 01:02:39.800 Of why. 1033 01:02:41.280 --> 01:02:46.000 Why we don't build a or use the Worry access 1034 01:02:46.000 --> 01:02:49.960 as a point of entry to serve the hinter land. 1035 01:02:50.559 --> 01:02:55.880 The issue reports is that they require. 1036 01:02:59.519 --> 01:03:01.880 It's all, they require a lot of infrastructure. 1037 01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:05.599 I mean in order to utilize to maximize the utilization 1038 01:03:05.679 --> 01:03:07.480 of that infrastructure. 1039 01:03:07.239 --> 01:03:08.360 You need. 1040 01:03:10.360 --> 01:03:16.679 A really large flow of traffic to justify that investment. 1041 01:03:17.559 --> 01:03:22.519 So in West Africa. And the thing is Nigeria is 1042 01:03:22.559 --> 01:03:28.599 not an island, it's it's in the West African port ecosystem. 1043 01:03:29.119 --> 01:03:30.599 In West Africa. We currently have. 1044 01:03:32.000 --> 01:03:36.440 Before the Laky Deep Seaport became operational, we had the 1045 01:03:36.519 --> 01:03:41.320 two main we had. The first modern transcriptment center was 1046 01:03:41.440 --> 01:03:45.920 the Port of Loma and then the Port of Tama 1047 01:03:46.000 --> 01:03:51.559 in Ghana opened and then Leaky Deep Seaport opened. Currently 1048 01:03:51.599 --> 01:03:56.119 they're building they're building up port a new deep seaport 1049 01:03:56.280 --> 01:03:57.280 in Senegal. 1050 01:03:59.519 --> 01:04:05.039 But traffic to West Africa you'll have. It's not just 1051 01:04:05.440 --> 01:04:08.039 it's not just Nigeria. All those sports. 1052 01:04:08.320 --> 01:04:12.239 When major shipping lines are sending goods to West Africa, 1053 01:04:12.960 --> 01:04:20.800 they pick the point where there is infrastructure and they 1054 01:04:20.840 --> 01:04:27.039 can what you call it return or offloadership as quickly 1055 01:04:27.039 --> 01:04:27.679 as possible. 1056 01:04:27.840 --> 01:04:30.840 Offload the cargo as quickly as possible, so. 1057 01:04:32.719 --> 01:04:36.079 In and then when you have there are only so 1058 01:04:36.159 --> 01:04:39.000 many places that you can build those you can't be 1059 01:04:39.960 --> 01:04:43.920 Lone Port has simply one point six or one point 1060 01:04:44.079 --> 01:04:45.880 I can't remember this as close to if it's close 1061 01:04:45.920 --> 01:04:49.559 to two million capacity, about the same capacity with Tema 1062 01:04:50.119 --> 01:04:53.119 and Maki Dipsyport. Currently the Phase one is about one 1063 01:04:53.159 --> 01:04:58.159 point six million TEUs in terms of container traffic and 1064 01:04:58.360 --> 01:04:59.960 they can expand it to two point. 1065 01:04:59.800 --> 01:05:01.000 Six or something like that. 1066 01:05:02.800 --> 01:05:07.199 The current demand in terms of TuS from Nigeria is 1067 01:05:07.320 --> 01:05:13.840 less than what the expanded capacity of Leky dip Syport is. 1068 01:05:14.239 --> 01:05:17.039 So if you're going to build another port in Nigeria, 1069 01:05:17.440 --> 01:05:21.920 it's not going to get any traffic because Lecky dip 1070 01:05:21.960 --> 01:05:24.679 Syport can handle all that traffic. The way we have 1071 01:05:24.719 --> 01:05:27.400 to look about look at it is we use Leky 1072 01:05:27.440 --> 01:05:31.199 Deep Saport as a transshipment point and then. 1073 01:05:31.400 --> 01:05:34.920 Serve all the smaller ports along the coast. 1074 01:05:35.639 --> 01:05:43.119 There is no the fact that the big cargo ships 1075 01:05:43.159 --> 01:05:47.360 are going to Leggy doesn't mean that the other parts 1076 01:05:47.400 --> 01:05:51.159 of Nigeria excluded. Every part of Nigeria benefits from them 1077 01:05:51.199 --> 01:05:56.880 because we get a more efficient shipping system. In terms 1078 01:05:56.920 --> 01:06:01.719 of the second question about the linking, in linking the 1079 01:06:01.760 --> 01:06:07.400 worry ettack by rail line to report and using that 1080 01:06:07.440 --> 01:06:11.199 as an access point that the Worry to Attack by 1081 01:06:11.679 --> 01:06:15.880 line is it's a very I always say. 1082 01:06:15.719 --> 01:06:16.760 That's an old friend line. 1083 01:06:16.800 --> 01:06:20.119 That is because the amount of population that. 1084 01:06:20.119 --> 01:06:26.039 It serves, it's not It does not justify the investment. 1085 01:06:26.760 --> 01:06:30.960 So if we're going to spend on building a rail 1086 01:06:31.199 --> 01:06:36.320 infrastructure connecting into a port, that is not where we should. 1087 01:06:36.039 --> 01:06:38.840 Be spending spending the money on. 1088 01:06:38.960 --> 01:06:42.840 Because actually have pointed out here we have limited resources. 1089 01:06:42.840 --> 01:06:44.599 We have to put the money where we get the 1090 01:06:44.639 --> 01:06:46.559 most value out of it. 1091 01:06:47.280 --> 01:06:51.400 So putting the money where there's value. 1092 01:06:52.360 --> 01:06:56.480 The currently the Worry port can be served by barges. 1093 01:06:57.440 --> 01:06:59.320 It does not have to be the main entry point 1094 01:06:59.360 --> 01:07:02.440 because we are may have that infrastructure in place, and 1095 01:07:02.800 --> 01:07:04.719 the best thing that we can do in terms of 1096 01:07:04.840 --> 01:07:09.199 utilizing our resources is maximizing the utilization or optimizing that 1097 01:07:09.239 --> 01:07:14.559 piece of infrastructure than spreading and defusing that diffusing those 1098 01:07:14.599 --> 01:07:21.679 resources to other areas and getting coordinating with barges to 1099 01:07:21.760 --> 01:07:25.559 tranship cargo from leky that should be a priority. And 1100 01:07:25.639 --> 01:07:28.239 in terms of the in terms of the real right now, 1101 01:07:28.360 --> 01:07:33.079 I say the worry to extapelya railines should be closed down. 1102 01:07:33.159 --> 01:07:35.480 Operating that reiline is a waste of money. All the 1103 01:07:35.519 --> 01:07:37.639 trains should be moved without to Lagos about them, and 1104 01:07:37.679 --> 01:07:38.840 that line should be shut down. 1105 01:07:39.159 --> 01:07:40.280 What if our passengers are. 1106 01:07:40.159 --> 01:07:42.599 Being carried up on that line right now can be 1107 01:07:42.679 --> 01:07:46.280 served by buses. There are currently no cargo being carried 1108 01:07:46.320 --> 01:07:50.440 on the line and it's not serving any utility. 1109 01:07:50.039 --> 01:07:51.039 At this point in time. 1110 01:07:51.800 --> 01:07:54.199 So we have to make sure that we are put 1111 01:07:54.199 --> 01:07:57.480 in our resources where we get the most value. Are 1112 01:07:57.519 --> 01:08:01.800 not just because we need to put this piece of 1113 01:08:01.840 --> 01:08:03.039 infrastructure in a place. 1114 01:08:04.960 --> 01:08:07.559 I mean, I agree with you, but you're gonna get 1115 01:08:07.599 --> 01:08:10.679 a flaky I mean you use the right word attack 1116 01:08:10.760 --> 01:08:13.599 bent to warries an off fundrail. Remember, guys, this was 1117 01:08:13.599 --> 01:08:16.800 the reel that was built for Joao Kuta Steel. When 1118 01:08:16.800 --> 01:08:20.479 our Jao Kuta was being built, there was no delta state. 1119 01:08:21.439 --> 01:08:25.720 There was no delta state. This was a port that 1120 01:08:25.920 --> 01:08:28.199 was built so that they could take the iron ore 1121 01:08:29.000 --> 01:08:31.479 to attack me, to get the beatrified, and then take 1122 01:08:31.520 --> 01:08:33.720 it back to our job because it had nothing to 1123 01:08:33.760 --> 01:08:37.399 do with moving people. But we wanted a quick political wind, 1124 01:08:37.720 --> 01:08:39.880 so we basically went to a line. That line was 1125 01:08:39.880 --> 01:08:43.880 built in nineteen eighty three. That line attack By was 1126 01:08:43.880 --> 01:08:48.119 built nineteen eighties by Julius Berger. We went to that 1127 01:08:48.199 --> 01:08:52.479 same rail line, then we built the stations and then 1128 01:08:52.520 --> 01:08:54.960 we launched the train so we could get the political victory. 1129 01:08:55.000 --> 01:08:58.159 But it's a waste, doesn't add anything. Like you said, 1130 01:08:58.359 --> 01:09:00.600 if you put a bustle in their ber artiling that 1131 01:09:00.720 --> 01:09:03.880 you can move people cheaper and faster. But I don't, 1132 01:09:03.880 --> 01:09:05.680 I MA me ask the question. I know a lot. 1133 01:09:05.760 --> 01:09:09.199 A while back, Julius Burger was making presentations to the 1134 01:09:09.359 --> 01:09:13.520 treas Nature and Julius Burger said, if you import a 1135 01:09:13.600 --> 01:09:17.479 container from europe Land the container in I think it 1136 01:09:17.560 --> 01:09:20.319 was legos or worry, they would take it from worry 1137 01:09:20.439 --> 01:09:23.880 to a nature. For you, this is just beggar, and 1138 01:09:23.960 --> 01:09:25.920 I think it's still up. I'm not sure I put 1139 01:09:25.960 --> 01:09:27.840 took them up on that. But Beggar made that problem 1140 01:09:27.920 --> 01:09:30.199 that they would take the continents from worry tour nature. 1141 01:09:30.840 --> 01:09:32.640 What about it if we simply put the real line 1142 01:09:32.680 --> 01:09:35.479 from worried to nature, so we can have the badge 1143 01:09:36.000 --> 01:09:38.079 I eat the bags and also have the railways to 1144 01:09:38.079 --> 01:09:41.000 go from worry to don't solve the issue. So we 1145 01:09:41.640 --> 01:09:44.600 moved to Lucky Deep Sea Port Lucky diep Syport mostly 1146 01:09:44.680 --> 01:09:48.079 by transship to Worry Port. Then Worry Report put on 1147 01:09:48.119 --> 01:09:51.279 a rail line from Worry to Nature or a bage 1148 01:09:51.279 --> 01:09:53.640 from Worry to Nature. So you cut off the legosy 1149 01:09:53.680 --> 01:09:55.560 by the next press road. You don't have to put 1150 01:09:55.560 --> 01:09:58.279 continents on the road anymore. The roads can last longer, 1151 01:09:58.319 --> 01:10:03.880 doesn't at least just solve the problem. 1152 01:10:02.199 --> 01:10:04.920 For so it real lined from Mori to Onnja. 1153 01:10:05.239 --> 01:10:11.279 Yes, yeah, so that's it falls into the same the 1154 01:10:11.359 --> 01:10:13.399 same category. 1155 01:10:13.640 --> 01:10:15.720 The Anita can. 1156 01:10:15.640 --> 01:10:20.760 Be served by barges directly from Lecky. So if you're 1157 01:10:20.760 --> 01:10:26.760 going to put another interface, uh, because transhipment costs. 1158 01:10:26.560 --> 01:10:30.159 Both time and money to the cargo. 1159 01:10:30.520 --> 01:10:34.920 If you're going to put another interface of transhipment is 1160 01:10:35.000 --> 01:10:39.319 going to increase the cost of moving that cargo. So 1161 01:10:40.399 --> 01:10:45.279 just taking the taking the cargo from Lecky straight to Anita, 1162 01:10:46.119 --> 01:10:50.960 it's already. That's already the solution in terms of getting 1163 01:10:51.079 --> 01:10:58.479 the cargo to Anita without going via the legals on 1164 01:10:58.600 --> 01:11:02.520 NITA Expressway. The problem I don't know how. I haven't 1165 01:11:02.520 --> 01:11:06.439 looked into the details of how the logistics or how 1166 01:11:07.079 --> 01:11:11.399 n PA handles transhipping, because I know from past. 1167 01:11:11.560 --> 01:11:12.079 It's not a. 1168 01:11:12.199 --> 01:11:16.720 Smooth it's not a smooth experience. 1169 01:11:17.159 --> 01:11:21.880 So if the NPA can work with the shippers on 1170 01:11:22.039 --> 01:11:25.760 streamlining that process of moving moving. 1171 01:11:25.520 --> 01:11:28.680 Of transhipping goods, that would be a major. 1172 01:11:30.880 --> 01:11:33.880 That would be a major boost in terms of cargo 1173 01:11:34.000 --> 01:11:38.880 movement from to and from ports or the entire country 1174 01:11:38.880 --> 01:11:39.359 in general. 1175 01:11:39.479 --> 01:11:43.920 Well, worry to worry too, fair Bardge is viable in 1176 01:11:43.960 --> 01:11:46.359 your opinion, Yeah. 1177 01:11:46.199 --> 01:11:49.119 Worry to worry too on EAHA is viable there bad 1178 01:11:49.600 --> 01:11:54.399 via barges and also lucky to on HR as well. 1179 01:11:54.920 --> 01:11:57.239 Gotcha quick one shake? You had a quick one. On 1180 01:11:57.319 --> 01:11:59.079 if I move to the next person, shake, you had 1181 01:11:59.079 --> 01:11:59.600 a quick one. 1182 01:12:00.119 --> 01:12:02.960 So I just wanted to bring it so something else. 1183 01:12:03.199 --> 01:12:04.840 I like what you said and the fact that I 1184 01:12:05.039 --> 01:12:08.319 let this deepsy post kind of cat out to our 1185 01:12:08.359 --> 01:12:12.199 place in the West African corridor and also the transcripment line. 1186 01:12:12.239 --> 01:12:13.760 And I like the fact that you also have resed 1187 01:12:13.800 --> 01:12:16.640 the fact that the budgies can move directly to an 1188 01:12:16.760 --> 01:12:18.760 h sports at the moment where we don't know how 1189 01:12:18.920 --> 01:12:21.720 viable MP is dealing with that. But now why I 1190 01:12:21.720 --> 01:12:23.119 want to bring this, I want to bring this home 1191 01:12:23.199 --> 01:12:25.880 in the sense of our current reality where we're beginning 1192 01:12:25.880 --> 01:12:30.119 to see a must regional centric kind of governance coming 1193 01:12:30.199 --> 01:12:33.479 up by the day. In that kind of conversation that 1194 01:12:33.520 --> 01:12:35.960 most people like what Carlo has said in terms of 1195 01:12:36.439 --> 01:12:39.600 for people to invest, they need a level of confidence 1196 01:12:39.640 --> 01:12:41.520 in the leadership and all of that. And you're beginning 1197 01:12:41.560 --> 01:12:44.560 to see more people moving towards a more regional centric 1198 01:12:44.680 --> 01:12:47.159 kind of wanting to invest in something that has to 1199 01:12:47.239 --> 01:12:51.560 benefit their own region. Where you within the Southern corridors, 1200 01:12:51.560 --> 01:12:55.319 you have the two regions, and we take deep sea 1201 01:12:55.359 --> 01:12:58.319 ports line in one region and everybody trying to say, no, 1202 01:12:58.399 --> 01:13:00.479 we want a piece of the pie. How won will 1203 01:13:00.560 --> 01:13:02.920 be your proposal to solving that kind of problem across 1204 01:13:02.920 --> 01:13:05.600 the regions to be able to cut that lead this 1205 01:13:05.800 --> 01:13:06.560 kind of group. 1206 01:13:07.880 --> 01:13:09.960 The problem. 1207 01:13:10.079 --> 01:13:13.920 Yeah, thanks for that. My solution to that will be 1208 01:13:14.159 --> 01:13:16.680 just to tell everybody to get real. That's it, just 1209 01:13:17.760 --> 01:13:19.920 get real, because the. 1210 01:13:21.640 --> 01:13:24.079 You, in terms of. 1211 01:13:26.119 --> 01:13:29.800 The benefit that we get from a large population from 1212 01:13:29.840 --> 01:13:37.960 the same quality, you cannot you cannot get that benefit 1213 01:13:38.079 --> 01:13:46.039 from fragmenting transport investment investment based on regional regional politics. 1214 01:13:46.479 --> 01:13:47.119 Because if you. 1215 01:13:47.079 --> 01:13:50.600 Say, oh, oh all the ports are going to leave us, Oh, 1216 01:13:50.680 --> 01:13:53.560 we need our own port in the southeast and then 1217 01:13:53.600 --> 01:13:55.640 you go spend that money. That money could have been 1218 01:13:55.640 --> 01:14:02.800 better spent on building the linkages to to evacuate the 1219 01:14:02.880 --> 01:14:05.840 cargo from Lecky to whatever region that you want to 1220 01:14:05.880 --> 01:14:12.920 get to. Because yes, I really see all the regional 1221 01:14:13.079 --> 01:14:16.920 tend whatever regional tension is, is superficial, and I don't 1222 01:14:16.960 --> 01:14:19.720 think focusing using that. 1223 01:14:19.560 --> 01:14:22.880 To guide investment. I don't think that's a wise strategy 1224 01:14:23.439 --> 01:14:27.279 because you still have to. 1225 01:14:27.199 --> 01:14:32.279 Spend that money, and then why not spend the money in. 1226 01:14:32.239 --> 01:14:34.199 A way where you get more value out of it. 1227 01:14:34.800 --> 01:14:41.039 So because it's going to building a new port in 1228 01:14:41.159 --> 01:14:46.239 other regions because of regionalization, it's not really we're not 1229 01:14:46.279 --> 01:14:47.119 going to get much better. 1230 01:14:47.239 --> 01:14:47.960 We're just going to. 1231 01:14:47.880 --> 01:14:52.680 Have money parted and there's no value coming. 1232 01:14:50.800 --> 01:14:54.119 Out, unless, of course, you basically say we're going to 1233 01:14:54.239 --> 01:14:57.399 regional government. Then of course that governance then supersed the 1234 01:14:57.439 --> 01:15:00.159 economics of it. Like the point again is if you 1235 01:15:00.159 --> 01:15:02.520 are going to be in Nigeria, then you've got to 1236 01:15:02.520 --> 01:15:05.640 look at the mass of Nigeria and the markets in Nigeria. 1237 01:15:05.760 --> 01:15:07.359 So then you have to work. You know, you go 1238 01:15:07.399 --> 01:15:09.960 to work with the aman you have, so essentially you 1239 01:15:10.039 --> 01:15:13.520 connect those clusters and you get the most benefit. So, 1240 01:15:13.640 --> 01:15:15.840 like you said, the problem in Legos port is a 1241 01:15:15.960 --> 01:15:19.760 papa to get out for our papa, port out of 1242 01:15:19.800 --> 01:15:23.319 our Papa is nearly a nightmare. I think if we 1243 01:15:23.399 --> 01:15:26.359 can build a real line from the port of our 1244 01:15:26.359 --> 01:15:29.600 Papa itself and take it to someoney be near or 1245 01:15:29.840 --> 01:15:32.800 more more way just out of Legos, and then from 1246 01:15:32.840 --> 01:15:35.199 there it can then be shipped very real to the 1247 01:15:35.399 --> 01:15:38.039 that would just solve all this. That's to me the 1248 01:15:38.079 --> 01:15:41.720 easiest thing. The real line any any any port I 1249 01:15:41.800 --> 01:15:45.600 see in America has a rail line. Any port I see, 1250 01:15:45.800 --> 01:15:48.840 I've never seen the port without the rail line here. 1251 01:15:48.920 --> 01:15:51.319 But it's if we had a real line a papa 1252 01:15:51.359 --> 01:15:53.399 that will take these goods out, we'll be talking about 1253 01:15:53.479 --> 01:15:57.640 trans shipping a container to on the on the Atlantic, 1254 01:15:58.039 --> 01:15:59.039 but it is what it is. 1255 01:15:59.520 --> 01:15:59.720 Time. 1256 01:15:59.800 --> 01:16:02.720 Let's if you guys in here, Daniel go ahead, please. 1257 01:16:02.560 --> 01:16:08.920 Daniel, Yeah, thank you. It took the last words from 1258 01:16:08.920 --> 01:16:11.560 my mom. But let me let me cite some example 1259 01:16:11.560 --> 01:16:15.079 and then add some a few questions. My first question 1260 01:16:15.199 --> 01:16:21.920 is around the concessionary project, the head Dam project that 1261 01:16:23.319 --> 01:16:26.720 the last eight years if government worked on that had 1262 01:16:26.880 --> 01:16:27.439 a couple. 1263 01:16:27.279 --> 01:16:30.880 Of highways handed over to some private. 1264 01:16:30.560 --> 01:16:34.920 Guys and strong, strong, strong consults. 1265 01:16:35.279 --> 01:16:37.920 You know what's happening with that? We are we on that? 1266 01:16:38.319 --> 01:16:40.039 Why are we not seeing results? 1267 01:16:40.319 --> 01:16:44.680 You mentioned it empty and working on and on each 1268 01:16:44.680 --> 01:16:49.000 other applied that road almost every other week, and it's 1269 01:16:49.039 --> 01:16:52.199 still it's still not twenty percent completed. 1270 01:16:53.000 --> 01:16:54.600 You know what's happening with that? 1271 01:16:55.239 --> 01:16:57.800 And I'm going to ask a question, what do you 1272 01:16:57.840 --> 01:17:02.119 think is the ability of doing an inland port in 1273 01:17:02.159 --> 01:17:07.920 the city, maybe somewhere such that there's a twelve kilimitars 1274 01:17:08.000 --> 01:17:13.640 railway that comes from protacot Port into about a sects 1275 01:17:14.279 --> 01:17:16.880 such that it can actually take you know, the Enego, 1276 01:17:16.920 --> 01:17:21.640 the protact inegal railway you know at some inter change 1277 01:17:21.760 --> 01:17:25.560 goes to the north, so that if someone is bringing 1278 01:17:25.640 --> 01:17:29.079 something to places like an intern ny and about also 1279 01:17:29.079 --> 01:17:30.560 because of exports. 1280 01:17:30.199 --> 01:17:33.199 Too, so that it's I know that. 1281 01:17:34.560 --> 01:17:42.159 Any biocronomicity had full destination for origin in lab port 1282 01:17:42.239 --> 01:17:45.600 license so that if we want to export to the 1283 01:17:45.600 --> 01:17:48.840 West African coast, the Central African coast, we can actually 1284 01:17:48.840 --> 01:17:51.039 put it on the rail the twelve kilimeters rail to 1285 01:17:51.159 --> 01:17:54.920 Protacto that it goes out. I know the value of 1286 01:17:55.000 --> 01:18:00.720 the Lucky deep Sea port. What the centralizes now economy. 1287 01:18:01.439 --> 01:18:05.399 I'm thinking in terms of economic descentralization, but I know 1288 01:18:06.159 --> 01:18:07.239 there might be. 1289 01:18:07.279 --> 01:18:08.680 Stronger arguements around that. 1290 01:18:09.319 --> 01:18:12.800 But you know, because if I want to export and 1291 01:18:12.840 --> 01:18:14.119 I need to put it on the road to go 1292 01:18:14.159 --> 01:18:17.920 to legos first before exports, it's discouraging and my enjoy 1293 01:18:18.000 --> 01:18:20.079 is not really getting a lot out of our exports 1294 01:18:20.159 --> 01:18:24.760 because because there is no structured export system, some people 1295 01:18:24.800 --> 01:18:26.760 now use the back doors to export. 1296 01:18:26.920 --> 01:18:29.800 I know the quantity of show that leaves about, you know, 1297 01:18:30.079 --> 01:18:34.760 to came room to lead so many West African states, 1298 01:18:34.880 --> 01:18:38.960 but those guys go through dark roots and not strong 1299 01:18:39.119 --> 01:18:40.760 part of that money goes to government. 1300 01:18:41.199 --> 01:18:43.520 Okay, so what's happening with our concession? 1301 01:18:43.560 --> 01:18:47.720 And happen this a concession solved this road problem as 1302 01:18:47.760 --> 01:18:50.760 we talked about it with the route you discrossed, and 1303 01:18:51.600 --> 01:18:54.640 what can in land ports do for us? 1304 01:18:54.680 --> 01:18:55.319 And then US. 1305 01:18:55.319 --> 01:18:59.600 Railway because I see the proposition. 1306 01:18:59.319 --> 01:19:01.560 In mad was they were going to have. 1307 01:19:03.199 --> 01:19:06.439 A railway line that moves anything that is destination and 1308 01:19:06.520 --> 01:19:10.520 in BacT that drops important called the railway to their 1309 01:19:10.640 --> 01:19:13.600 inland port and then everything happens at that point if 1310 01:19:13.600 --> 01:19:18.239 we have closet off that across regions problem. 1311 01:19:18.760 --> 01:19:21.680 I think the points me. So you're basically asking critically, 1312 01:19:21.680 --> 01:19:24.760 why we so just a simple question, photonomic and basically 1313 01:19:24.840 --> 01:19:27.960 I get the backer. Just do that simple question. He 1314 01:19:28.119 --> 01:19:30.880 was off. Just make sure he heard you. He just 1315 01:19:30.880 --> 01:19:32.640 just added him back. So what was the simple question 1316 01:19:32.720 --> 01:19:36.800 for him? None of his back? That's Turnamy was go. 1317 01:19:36.800 --> 01:19:41.319 Ahead, Well, okay, First, what's happening with the concessions or 1318 01:19:41.359 --> 01:19:46.159 the concession heading my concession that happened for thirteen routes? 1319 01:19:46.199 --> 01:19:48.079 I guess ye, where are we. 1320 01:19:48.119 --> 01:19:50.640 On that and what's happening and how can that improve 1321 01:19:51.079 --> 01:19:55.720 the major road infrastructure? And then having in land points 1322 01:19:55.920 --> 01:19:59.960 as against having so multiple deep ports, having in love 1323 01:20:00.079 --> 01:20:02.079 port where you know, if. 1324 01:20:01.960 --> 01:20:04.520 Something is full destination. 1325 01:20:04.520 --> 01:20:07.119 A particular in land port, it just gets the water 1326 01:20:07.199 --> 01:20:08.640 and then road rail. 1327 01:20:10.000 --> 01:20:14.319 Okay to me that I think, I'm not sure. Two questions. 1328 01:20:14.399 --> 01:20:18.039 What's happened to the the tax I think it's the 1329 01:20:18.079 --> 01:20:21.079 tax credit concessions where you build the infrastructure and the 1330 01:20:21.079 --> 01:20:23.239 government gives you back the money if you're a tax 1331 01:20:23.279 --> 01:20:27.000 credits number one. Number two is basically saying why can 1332 01:20:27.079 --> 01:20:28.520 we have more inland ports? 1333 01:20:28.600 --> 01:20:28.760 Right? 1334 01:20:29.199 --> 01:20:30.840 We have deep sa ports. I'm not sure if he's 1335 01:20:30.840 --> 01:20:33.479 saying it should they should cancel themselves out. But it's 1336 01:20:33.479 --> 01:20:36.840 asking really what's the viability of having more inland port. 1337 01:20:37.000 --> 01:20:41.159 There's local ja, there's a nich in regards to if 1338 01:20:41.199 --> 01:20:43.600 we're having a deep sea port in len In Calaba. 1339 01:20:43.760 --> 01:20:46.760 So go ahead, thank you. 1340 01:20:49.199 --> 01:20:52.680 The So for those for those questions regarding the. 1341 01:20:52.760 --> 01:20:54.640 Concessions, I haven't. 1342 01:20:55.279 --> 01:20:59.239 I haven't followed those in detail in detail, so I don't. 1343 01:20:59.600 --> 01:21:02.760 I don't know what's going on with with those concessions 1344 01:21:02.800 --> 01:21:05.159 on how they're being executed. 1345 01:21:08.079 --> 01:21:12.680 But in terms of the in terms of the viability 1346 01:21:12.720 --> 01:21:15.760 of re report those. 1347 01:21:18.039 --> 01:21:20.960 I would say those are actually those are actually useful. 1348 01:21:23.239 --> 01:21:25.079 We don't have to look at it as. 1349 01:21:28.119 --> 01:21:29.520 One or the other. 1350 01:21:31.079 --> 01:21:38.760 Like we need we need especially for like industrial output 1351 01:21:38.760 --> 01:21:40.239 when you have a. 1352 01:21:41.520 --> 01:21:46.479 Chemicals different other industrial. 1353 01:21:46.000 --> 01:21:47.279 Activity that need. 1354 01:21:50.159 --> 01:21:55.199 That need water access for efficient movements of their of 1355 01:21:55.279 --> 01:22:01.119 their cargo. For example, you have the of the flour 1356 01:22:01.199 --> 01:22:05.039 mills are always sighted at the ports down with a 1357 01:22:05.159 --> 01:22:10.720 flower at bond Bua at port hardcore because they can 1358 01:22:10.920 --> 01:22:17.840 get the shipments of flour directly at the directly at 1359 01:22:17.880 --> 01:22:20.239 the port and those don't have to go to truck 1360 01:22:20.760 --> 01:22:27.279 go via trucks. Then they process it into whatever cereal or. 1361 01:22:27.119 --> 01:22:31.279 Noodles or whatever part of those products, and so those 1362 01:22:31.720 --> 01:22:34.239 those are those are necessary. But in terms of and 1363 01:22:34.880 --> 01:22:40.680 also even in terms of contained container traffic, the thing with. 1364 01:22:43.000 --> 01:22:47.359 The thing with the deep sea port and linking those 1365 01:22:47.479 --> 01:22:50.479 deep sea deeps, linking the deep saport to different regions 1366 01:22:50.600 --> 01:22:56.680 is that's just the way modern shippers ship. If you 1367 01:22:56.800 --> 01:23:01.920 have cargo destined for APA, it's not going to go 1368 01:23:02.079 --> 01:23:06.000 directly from Guangzhou to Aba, It's going to go from 1369 01:23:06.079 --> 01:23:15.000 Guangzhou to a major transhipment center and then usually and 1370 01:23:15.199 --> 01:23:21.039 then it will be transhipped to Aba. So for example, 1371 01:23:21.079 --> 01:23:25.840 if we have cargo destined for Anita, that cargo will 1372 01:23:25.880 --> 01:23:32.560 go from wherever's coming from Shanghai, Guangzhou to LeKi and 1373 01:23:32.600 --> 01:23:37.159 then transhipped. The cargo will be broken down. Because for 1374 01:23:37.279 --> 01:23:42.640 shippers they need to ship they get they have, they're 1375 01:23:42.680 --> 01:23:46.279 more efficient when they ship a lot of cargo at once. 1376 01:23:46.680 --> 01:23:47.359 So there's no. 1377 01:23:49.159 --> 01:23:53.079 Direct shipment that you order direct shipment to every single port. 1378 01:23:53.640 --> 01:23:56.840 The port system in the world currently operates in a 1379 01:23:56.960 --> 01:24:03.199 hubnspoke system. So whatever cargo you're going to getting another 1380 01:24:03.199 --> 01:24:05.279 part of the country if that place is not a 1381 01:24:06.520 --> 01:24:11.199 high demand center for right now in Nigeria. Legos is 1382 01:24:11.239 --> 01:24:14.840 the demand center and that's regardless if you take out 1383 01:24:14.880 --> 01:24:15.880 all the cargo. 1384 01:24:15.560 --> 01:24:16.640 That's going everywhere else. 1385 01:24:16.920 --> 01:24:22.279 Because all the manufacturing in the country is happening in Legos. 1386 01:24:22.600 --> 01:24:25.199 That is the demand center, so all the cargo is 1387 01:24:25.199 --> 01:24:27.840 going to go there. So all we have So what 1388 01:24:27.880 --> 01:24:31.479 we have to do is to make use of that 1389 01:24:31.600 --> 01:24:37.000 node as an entry point because if you create another node, 1390 01:24:37.239 --> 01:24:40.640 is there's no shepherd that's going to center ship directly 1391 01:24:41.720 --> 01:24:42.960 to those places. 1392 01:24:42.479 --> 01:24:45.439 It's it's it doesn't really. 1393 01:24:47.439 --> 01:24:50.039 The idea of this decentralization. 1394 01:24:50.319 --> 01:24:56.600 It sounds good in it sounds good when you think 1395 01:24:56.640 --> 01:24:57.279 about it. 1396 01:24:57.520 --> 01:25:04.079 But in practice, most ports around the world operate in 1397 01:25:04.119 --> 01:25:06.079 the hub and spoke. If it is a major port, 1398 01:25:06.800 --> 01:25:09.880 then it's going to be a transhipment center. If it 1399 01:25:09.960 --> 01:25:12.760 is a minor demand center, then it's going to get 1400 01:25:12.800 --> 01:25:16.479 this cargo that's trendship from a nearby port. And that's 1401 01:25:16.600 --> 01:25:19.319 just the way the system, the shipping system is, and 1402 01:25:19.399 --> 01:25:22.319 we just have to build an infrastructure. 1403 01:25:21.920 --> 01:25:24.439 To make use of it, make use of that if 1404 01:25:24.439 --> 01:25:25.279 that's the way we can. 1405 01:25:25.720 --> 01:25:27.720 Yeah, and let me just let me just add this right, 1406 01:25:27.800 --> 01:25:31.479 so you know, the private sector looks at P and 1407 01:25:31.640 --> 01:25:36.319 L profit and loss revenues. If you are the governor 1408 01:25:36.359 --> 01:25:39.680 of a state in the south south southeast and you 1409 01:25:39.800 --> 01:25:42.359 desira port, my advice to you is to build one 1410 01:25:42.399 --> 01:25:46.079 yourself and then use that as a template to show 1411 01:25:46.159 --> 01:25:51.000 the private sector that it works. Then the private sector 1412 01:25:51.039 --> 01:25:53.920 will follow your lead. So to answer your question directly, 1413 01:25:53.960 --> 01:25:57.399 that is, should we have an inland port. Yes, nobody 1414 01:25:57.399 --> 01:26:03.359 has stopped you delta anambera. They can build an inland port. 1415 01:26:03.479 --> 01:26:07.199 Is a federal inland port in onnitcha right now. Not 1416 01:26:07.319 --> 01:26:10.439 to stop an ambrastic government from building a container port, 1417 01:26:10.640 --> 01:26:14.720 very very modern only containers with lots of computers. They 1418 01:26:14.720 --> 01:26:17.840 can be controlled twenty four to seven. They can partner 1419 01:26:17.880 --> 01:26:20.079 the governor is very very close to the president to 1420 01:26:20.159 --> 01:26:23.520 discuss with him. So badges can come all the way 1421 01:26:23.720 --> 01:26:27.079 to a new port in the number they can offload, 1422 01:26:27.279 --> 01:26:29.640 and then it can happen. It will be a good 1423 01:26:29.760 --> 01:26:32.920 vote winner for you. Right So if you do that, 1424 01:26:33.359 --> 01:26:36.800 the pravaces that will watch you if it makes money, 1425 01:26:36.840 --> 01:26:39.560 they would invest in it because in the end, no 1426 01:26:39.560 --> 01:26:42.000 matter how good the idea is, money has got to 1427 01:26:42.079 --> 01:26:45.640 build the idea. I give you a good example. There 1428 01:26:45.720 --> 01:26:48.840 was no airport in the whole of the southeast apart 1429 01:26:48.880 --> 01:26:52.880 from ugu Emo State. Before back then it was just 1430 01:26:52.960 --> 01:26:57.800 a number and Emo state. So Emo states that the 1431 01:26:58.039 --> 01:27:00.319 south is said to build a new airport in the 1432 01:27:00.399 --> 01:27:03.520 Emo State, and they didn't wait for the federal governmental. 1433 01:27:03.520 --> 01:27:07.920 They got together, they did gofund me, they did crowdfunding 1434 01:27:08.079 --> 01:27:11.720 and they built an airport in Emo. Now the feder 1435 01:27:11.800 --> 01:27:14.439 going to taking over the airport is expanded. It's now 1436 01:27:14.479 --> 01:27:18.159 more more than what the money followed the business. If 1437 01:27:18.199 --> 01:27:22.479 you don't show the private sector that there's business, they 1438 01:27:22.600 --> 01:27:25.600 need to say there's business. No the chair, but how 1439 01:27:25.600 --> 01:27:29.239 many containers will actually move if you invest all that 1440 01:27:29.520 --> 01:27:32.760 capital in dollar terms to build a port. So if 1441 01:27:32.960 --> 01:27:36.119 if the beggar begger MD had said, hey, on a chair, 1442 01:27:36.520 --> 01:27:39.119 you can do transhipments if on a chair, taking that 1443 01:27:39.159 --> 01:27:41.880 guy up on his offer, I'm not sure why or 1444 01:27:41.880 --> 01:27:44.880 why they did not, And we are seeing one hundred 1445 01:27:44.920 --> 01:27:48.359 containers every month. Oh wow, somebody's gonna go and put 1446 01:27:48.399 --> 01:27:50.880 the port on the chair because the business case is 1447 01:27:50.920 --> 01:27:55.079 now being made. So my advice is in the end, 1448 01:27:55.279 --> 01:27:58.720 start it even if it's small, and show the private 1449 01:27:58.920 --> 01:28:02.479 sector there's theres this is viable and once they see 1450 01:28:02.520 --> 01:28:06.079 it's viable. The business will follow. If you wait for 1451 01:28:06.159 --> 01:28:09.640 the government, it's not gonna happen. That's my way, that's 1452 01:28:09.840 --> 01:28:13.520 my point of saying. We've had that port in Eacha 1453 01:28:13.600 --> 01:28:16.720 for a long while. I haven't seen it boom. 1454 01:28:16.840 --> 01:28:17.000 You know. 1455 01:28:17.039 --> 01:28:19.640 I know it's a company that moves tiles from a 1456 01:28:19.720 --> 01:28:22.720 nature to Niger State, but I'm not seeing lots of 1457 01:28:22.840 --> 01:28:26.079 containers there. And what is hard in getting a badge 1458 01:28:26.399 --> 01:28:29.119 and then taking the torture containers from legos there. It's 1459 01:28:29.159 --> 01:28:32.439 not cheaper, but it hasn't boomed. And if it's not booming, 1460 01:28:32.640 --> 01:28:35.880 that's a big red flag to an investor to say, 1461 01:28:36.079 --> 01:28:38.640 why is in this port making it? If it's not 1462 01:28:38.680 --> 01:28:40.920 making it, why should I invest more in it? So 1463 01:28:40.960 --> 01:28:42.600 if you know why it's not making it, let me know, 1464 01:28:42.800 --> 01:28:47.279 then we can sort of understand the next steps. Time. 1465 01:28:47.359 --> 01:28:50.439 Let me get alien alien X here. Thanks for waitningess. 1466 01:28:50.439 --> 01:28:51.079 I appreciate you. 1467 01:28:51.560 --> 01:28:53.560 Yeah, yeah, thank you very much. 1468 01:28:53.880 --> 01:28:56.600 Cal Please, I would want to push back on some 1469 01:28:56.760 --> 01:29:02.079 things that you have said that if it's okay, yeah, yeah, 1470 01:29:02.119 --> 01:29:06.920 so I head. Thanks for also enlightening nots and telling 1471 01:29:07.000 --> 01:29:12.720 us you know that it appeared to worry real line 1472 01:29:12.880 --> 01:29:16.199 was done because of the adjacutar still and everything. But 1473 01:29:16.960 --> 01:29:22.159 I noticed you guys of the opinion that we should 1474 01:29:22.239 --> 01:29:27.159 not that it's not really valuable, and you do not 1475 01:29:27.319 --> 01:29:30.680 think that it's something we should keep on running. Well, 1476 01:29:30.720 --> 01:29:35.359 for me, I've been I've used that line and I 1477 01:29:35.399 --> 01:29:37.880 even used it recently, and I can tell you that 1478 01:29:39.039 --> 01:29:41.079 there are a lot of people that use that real 1479 01:29:41.800 --> 01:29:44.279 The only issue I think that we are having there 1480 01:29:44.600 --> 01:29:47.880 is something that I feel you guys need to I 1481 01:29:47.960 --> 01:29:52.159 really want to also ask questions on its maintenance. And 1482 01:29:52.359 --> 01:29:55.039 I don't know if any of you have gone through 1483 01:29:55.479 --> 01:29:59.760 that real line and the coaches over the the inner 1484 01:29:59.800 --> 01:30:02.960 could is a lot of everything that is there has 1485 01:30:03.079 --> 01:30:07.960 been bastardized. Some of them I don't know, broken, not 1486 01:30:08.119 --> 01:30:12.840 properly maintained. The aces, some coaches ases are not working, 1487 01:30:13.600 --> 01:30:17.239 some of the facilities not working. I remember using it 1488 01:30:17.319 --> 01:30:21.079 recently and some of the real lines, when you're passing 1489 01:30:21.079 --> 01:30:23.640 through some of the places there, you will see they're 1490 01:30:23.680 --> 01:30:26.479 reducing the speed and they're saying that they're reducing the 1491 01:30:26.560 --> 01:30:30.279 speed because of vandalization and so on and so forth. 1492 01:30:30.560 --> 01:30:31.960 I will remember one. 1493 01:30:31.760 --> 01:30:35.680 Time after boarding it, it took us over an hour 1494 01:30:35.840 --> 01:30:39.720 before the train started moving because they said the train 1495 01:30:39.880 --> 01:30:43.000 was having some issues and they had to fix it quickly, 1496 01:30:43.079 --> 01:30:45.079 and so on and so forth. But I can tell 1497 01:30:45.119 --> 01:30:48.279 you that every time I've passed through that place for 1498 01:30:48.520 --> 01:30:51.800 passengers using it, I think there is a lot of volume. 1499 01:30:51.880 --> 01:30:54.279 There are a lot of people going through it and everything. 1500 01:30:54.680 --> 01:30:58.600 Number two is that I did a quick search and 1501 01:30:58.720 --> 01:31:02.199 you can for check me. Plea is China doesn't really 1502 01:31:02.239 --> 01:31:04.600 make gains, and I know I'm not supposed to be 1503 01:31:04.640 --> 01:31:07.600 caught in China boards because China is more advanced than O. 1504 01:31:07.680 --> 01:31:12.119 Sport check theirrail lines most of times. 1505 01:31:11.199 --> 01:31:12.640 Every year, almost every year. 1506 01:31:12.640 --> 01:31:15.359 I think it was just recently they started making gains 1507 01:31:15.399 --> 01:31:19.279 on their reil lines. They've been making losses, losses, losses. 1508 01:31:19.399 --> 01:31:21.840 But because they know that this is these are very 1509 01:31:21.960 --> 01:31:26.840 very important facilities and infrastructure for the people, they have 1510 01:31:27.319 --> 01:31:32.239 been investing, investing, investing. So I just wanted to say that. Now, 1511 01:31:32.479 --> 01:31:36.520 my question to Tsonami is very simple, what are the 1512 01:31:36.560 --> 01:31:41.800 possibilities of private the private sector investing in all of distance? 1513 01:31:41.880 --> 01:31:45.840 Because I've been in one or two meetings where people 1514 01:31:46.000 --> 01:31:50.479 like the transport systems, like those bosses A facing actually ABC, 1515 01:31:51.279 --> 01:31:53.640 ABC and some others. 1516 01:31:54.119 --> 01:31:55.880 What do they call that other boss line. 1517 01:31:55.880 --> 01:31:58.279 Again, I've been trying to see how they can talk 1518 01:31:58.319 --> 01:32:01.880 to the government to invest in need to also try 1519 01:32:01.920 --> 01:32:04.479 and see how they can own coaches and run some 1520 01:32:04.560 --> 01:32:07.960 of these things there. What are the divisibilities on some 1521 01:32:08.039 --> 01:32:11.159 of these private investors going into it? Do you think 1522 01:32:11.920 --> 01:32:15.560 it would be wise for private investors actually running the 1523 01:32:15.680 --> 01:32:19.920 rules instead of n r CEO Nigeria with commission or 1524 01:32:19.920 --> 01:32:24.720 something running it and other things? And to what can 1525 01:32:24.760 --> 01:32:28.000 we do to you know, improve the maintenance culture of 1526 01:32:28.079 --> 01:32:29.600 the existing real life that we have. 1527 01:32:29.760 --> 01:32:31.119 Correctly, are you the microphon? 1528 01:32:31.119 --> 01:32:31.319 Now? 1529 01:32:31.319 --> 01:32:33.680 I still have more about you the microphone? Thank you? 1530 01:32:35.239 --> 01:32:36.119 Do you want to go first? 1531 01:32:36.239 --> 01:32:42.960 Okay, yeah, yeah, I think yeah, yeah, Thanks Thanks all x. 1532 01:32:44.640 --> 01:32:48.399 SO for the first one regarding the uh. 1533 01:32:51.520 --> 01:32:56.079 Wait you're talking it talks about what to attack, but 1534 01:32:56.199 --> 01:32:58.079 he's sort of pushing back on the fact that listen, 1535 01:32:58.119 --> 01:33:01.119 we're saying it's not really commercial. Also, he's sney case 1536 01:33:01.159 --> 01:33:03.760 of China is building it for the future. They're not 1537 01:33:03.760 --> 01:33:06.479 looking at today's profits, but they're looking at it tomorrow 1538 01:33:06.560 --> 01:33:09.359 and all that that's for worry attack by So he's saying, 1539 01:33:09.359 --> 01:33:13.159 why can't we just invest in upgrading it so that 1540 01:33:13.279 --> 01:33:16.000 become more viable that's a special issue in theory attack 1541 01:33:16.039 --> 01:33:17.800 by then, of course, the second one is talking about 1542 01:33:18.159 --> 01:33:21.760 the private sector kind of coming and run this thing. 1543 01:33:21.840 --> 01:33:24.600 So it's better productivity to these two questions. 1544 01:33:24.359 --> 01:33:29.880 Yeah, okay, yeah, thanks for quite Fryan. So for the 1545 01:33:29.880 --> 01:33:36.560 worry tappy route. In regards to China funding funding their 1546 01:33:36.560 --> 01:33:43.199 infrastructure projects, a lot of those projects are are heavily 1547 01:33:43.239 --> 01:33:48.000 planned and they are distributed based on. 1548 01:33:51.399 --> 01:33:52.920 Based on resource. 1549 01:33:52.960 --> 01:33:56.640 Yes, they have fringe projects that are done for done 1550 01:33:56.680 --> 01:34:00.800 for political reasons, but majority of the of the real 1551 01:34:00.840 --> 01:34:05.640 projects in China are funded. And also the poor projects 1552 01:34:06.199 --> 01:34:11.840 are funded based on the amount of demand for those 1553 01:34:12.760 --> 01:34:17.199 for those places, Yes, they also project demand, but. 1554 01:34:18.840 --> 01:34:27.479 They build, but they those projections are based on based 1555 01:34:27.520 --> 01:34:30.479 on the existing reality. 1556 01:34:31.439 --> 01:34:35.840 Now in Nigeria, if we want to say worry type way, 1557 01:34:36.399 --> 01:34:38.479 if we want to keep spending money the amount of 1558 01:34:38.560 --> 01:34:43.880 money the Nigeria, we don't have that much money to 1559 01:34:44.319 --> 01:34:45.600 spend on infrastructure. 1560 01:34:46.199 --> 01:34:49.399 For something like they real line, it needs to have 1561 01:34:50.199 --> 01:34:53.039 a ton of traffic. 1562 01:34:52.920 --> 01:34:55.680 On it to get the most utility out of it. 1563 01:34:56.439 --> 01:35:00.560 The current population. Along the worry type of yes, you 1564 01:35:00.640 --> 01:35:02.600 might go to a train station and the train is full, 1565 01:35:02.960 --> 01:35:06.119 but that doesn't matter what matters is how many writers 1566 01:35:07.039 --> 01:35:09.359 that train serves annually. 1567 01:35:10.439 --> 01:35:11.800 If you you might. 1568 01:35:11.680 --> 01:35:14.479 Have full trains, but then if you have service, if 1569 01:35:14.520 --> 01:35:17.960 you have trained service once a day or twice in 1570 01:35:17.960 --> 01:35:21.800 a day, it doesn't amount. It doesn't amount too much. 1571 01:35:22.520 --> 01:35:25.199 So the trains might be full, but that doesn't mean 1572 01:35:25.239 --> 01:35:28.439 that there is a lot of ridership on that particular corridor. 1573 01:35:29.920 --> 01:35:33.960 And that is one So right now, the population distribution 1574 01:35:34.039 --> 01:35:37.560 on that corridor is so small. The amount of investment 1575 01:35:37.760 --> 01:35:42.000 is going to take to get that ridership up to 1576 01:35:42.079 --> 01:35:46.479 the level where it is justifiable, it's going to be immense. 1577 01:35:46.680 --> 01:35:50.159 And in a country like Nigeria, instead of we could 1578 01:35:50.199 --> 01:35:52.359 spend that money, yes and say it's for the future, 1579 01:35:53.079 --> 01:35:57.159 but then there's the opportunity costs. Because we spent that 1580 01:35:57.239 --> 01:35:58.560 money on this corridor. 1581 01:35:58.199 --> 01:36:00.840 We've neglected neglected the. 1582 01:36:00.520 --> 01:36:05.359 Corridors that have more potential in terms of in terms 1583 01:36:05.399 --> 01:36:11.279 of ridership. So that is why I always I'm always 1584 01:36:12.119 --> 01:36:16.199 advocating for removing our focus on the Worry attack Way 1585 01:36:16.239 --> 01:36:21.319 railway as a passenger railway as a freight railway because 1586 01:36:21.359 --> 01:36:24.239 it right now, in terms of the network, the Nigerian 1587 01:36:24.760 --> 01:36:29.159 network system, it does not add any value that is 1588 01:36:29.600 --> 01:36:36.359 reasonable to to the network. So so yeah, so that's 1589 01:36:36.439 --> 01:36:39.000 that's for the for the worry attack way. In terms 1590 01:36:39.000 --> 01:36:46.079 of private investments coming into infrastructure projects, it like for 1591 01:36:46.159 --> 01:36:51.720 the for the buses. For the buses, it makes it 1592 01:36:51.880 --> 01:36:56.319 makes sense. It is viable because it's more distributed, but 1593 01:36:56.560 --> 01:37:00.039 for real it is not viable because. 1594 01:36:59.800 --> 01:37:04.159 It the if we say we want. 1595 01:37:04.000 --> 01:37:07.520 To bring private investors to run and operate rail is 1596 01:37:07.600 --> 01:37:10.119 going they're going to run into the ground. That's the 1597 01:37:10.319 --> 01:37:12.880 same process that've been repeated everywhere across the world where 1598 01:37:12.880 --> 01:37:15.760 you're bringing private investors, privatize the. 1599 01:37:15.800 --> 01:37:19.640 Railways and then they run it into the ground. 1600 01:37:19.359 --> 01:37:24.560 Because it's just the incentives within the nature of rail 1601 01:37:26.359 --> 01:37:34.439 is that you're not able to. 1602 01:37:31.359 --> 01:37:33.039 Capture all the benefits. 1603 01:37:34.000 --> 01:37:36.439 So if you're not able to capture all the benefits, 1604 01:37:37.439 --> 01:37:39.840 then it's not going to be a profit profitable venture 1605 01:37:39.960 --> 01:37:43.800 for a private investor. Yes, the Chinese government when they 1606 01:37:43.840 --> 01:37:45.239 build rails. 1607 01:37:44.880 --> 01:37:56.000 They have they have operational losses. The government can the 1608 01:37:56.039 --> 01:37:58.479 government can stomach those losses because. 1609 01:37:58.159 --> 01:38:01.039 The government can recoup the benefits. 1610 01:38:00.520 --> 01:38:03.840 In other aspects of the economy. A private investor will 1611 01:38:03.880 --> 01:38:05.680 not be able to recoup. 1612 01:38:06.920 --> 01:38:07.000 That. 1613 01:38:07.279 --> 01:38:10.600 A private investor cannot say oh we want to collect 1614 01:38:10.720 --> 01:38:13.880 money from taxes, from the traders and everybody else and 1615 01:38:13.920 --> 01:38:17.479 all the other economic activity. A private investor can't do that. 1616 01:38:18.159 --> 01:38:20.960 They can only get money from that particular traffic on 1617 01:38:20.960 --> 01:38:26.039 that particular rail line. So for REIL, we should stay 1618 01:38:26.079 --> 01:38:28.920 away from the ideal of private investors running rail because 1619 01:38:28.920 --> 01:38:33.840 it's just going to make things worse for buses. We've 1620 01:38:33.880 --> 01:38:36.359 been we've been doing it that way for a while. 1621 01:38:36.399 --> 01:38:41.920 The problem we've had with buses is fragmentation of fragmentation 1622 01:38:42.039 --> 01:38:47.920 of bus traffic where we have where we moved, we 1623 01:38:48.079 --> 01:38:50.399 moved from using coach buses. 1624 01:38:50.800 --> 01:38:52.680 Now we're using these. 1625 01:38:54.239 --> 01:39:00.439 Eleven seater buses where people are crammed inside and so 1626 01:39:00.760 --> 01:39:03.640 it because I remember, I remember when I was traveling 1627 01:39:04.439 --> 01:39:08.359 back in the nineties, early two thousand, we. 1628 01:39:08.359 --> 01:39:09.319 Entered we go to. 1629 01:39:11.479 --> 01:39:14.439 Uh whether it can edible, Chicu, Cisco and all those 1630 01:39:14.479 --> 01:39:20.119 guys we're using take coach buses to travel across the country. 1631 01:39:20.159 --> 01:39:22.399 And now you want to travel, you have to get 1632 01:39:22.439 --> 01:39:25.640 into an elevency the bus where you're prampting luggage and 1633 01:39:25.760 --> 01:39:29.119 you don't have you So that's the problem we have 1634 01:39:29.199 --> 01:39:33.159 in terms of bus transportation. We have to find a 1635 01:39:33.199 --> 01:39:40.199 way to consolidate the consolidate the industry because a lot 1636 01:39:40.239 --> 01:39:44.399 of them went to that route because they could not 1637 01:39:44.560 --> 01:39:47.880 feel they have so many you have so many providers 1638 01:39:48.119 --> 01:39:49.119 and they couldn't feel. 1639 01:39:49.000 --> 01:39:50.119 Their coach buses. 1640 01:39:50.439 --> 01:39:53.800 So they decided, oh, let's go to a smaller bus 1641 01:39:53.960 --> 01:39:56.119 so that we can fill it up and then move. 1642 01:39:56.800 --> 01:40:01.039 But in operating inter city buses, you have to operate 1643 01:40:01.079 --> 01:40:02.319 on a schedule. 1644 01:40:03.159 --> 01:40:04.439 So you operate on a schedule. 1645 01:40:04.479 --> 01:40:07.920 Whether the bus is full or empty, that bus has 1646 01:40:07.960 --> 01:40:11.720 to move and until we have to get to that 1647 01:40:11.880 --> 01:40:14.760 point where that is how we operate buses, we have 1648 01:40:14.840 --> 01:40:17.000 to find a way to consolidate. 1649 01:40:18.079 --> 01:40:20.319 The services and also. 1650 01:40:22.039 --> 01:40:27.680 Spreading out and also consolidating like the bus terminals, so 1651 01:40:27.720 --> 01:40:30.800 we have we have dedicated bus terminals and don't have 1652 01:40:30.880 --> 01:40:34.399 distributed terminals in different parts of the city for different operators. 1653 01:40:34.960 --> 01:40:37.680 So those are the things that the government can do. 1654 01:40:38.079 --> 01:40:41.479 And I know some governments are already already already doing 1655 01:40:41.640 --> 01:40:45.319 doing that, but the execution has leaves a lot of 1656 01:40:45.399 --> 01:40:48.880 room for improvement. So that's something that we can do 1657 01:40:48.960 --> 01:40:53.479 in terms of the for the bus services and then 1658 01:40:53.520 --> 01:40:56.800 the private and the private operators can run the buses. 1659 01:40:57.000 --> 01:41:00.119 But in running the buses. They don't have to on 1660 01:41:00.159 --> 01:41:02.359 a on a. 1661 01:41:01.520 --> 01:41:07.399 Full bus, don't move until the bus is full, a 1662 01:41:07.479 --> 01:41:10.399 strategy which for most of the time that's how. 1663 01:41:10.319 --> 01:41:11.520 The buses have been operated. 1664 01:41:11.760 --> 01:41:13.720 It has to be on a on a schedule. 1665 01:41:14.239 --> 01:41:15.279 I want to. 1666 01:41:17.920 --> 01:41:23.319 Yeah so but you but you you recover the money 1667 01:41:24.520 --> 01:41:27.479 over you have when you calculate how you run the route. 1668 01:41:28.119 --> 01:41:32.560 People base people make their decisions based on that schedule. 1669 01:41:32.960 --> 01:41:35.319 If you have a schedule, somebody trusts that, Okay, I 1670 01:41:35.319 --> 01:41:38.279 am going to leave the part at this particular time 1671 01:41:38.359 --> 01:41:41.520 when I get to this particular bus, people will make 1672 01:41:41.560 --> 01:41:45.439 their plans based on that, and you make your plan, 1673 01:41:47.199 --> 01:41:54.800 you make your what you call it, your operations based 1674 01:41:55.279 --> 01:41:59.199 based on that. If you wait on a feel and 1675 01:41:59.319 --> 01:42:03.600 go strategy, then that's that's not a service service. 1676 01:42:03.640 --> 01:42:06.560 That is yeah, I got you, not I hear what 1677 01:42:06.640 --> 01:42:08.600 you're saying. But most of these guys are a momon 1678 01:42:08.680 --> 01:42:11.600 pops or companies. Right, if you go to ABC, they 1679 01:42:11.640 --> 01:42:14.840 operate to the set in fixed time. But Niger doesn't 1680 01:42:14.880 --> 01:42:20.199 have this delped in like transportation companies. Again goes on 1681 01:42:20.239 --> 01:42:22.840 fixed times. I remember back then to six am six 1682 01:42:22.960 --> 01:42:26.239 fifteen sixty. They move. But once you go to the 1683 01:42:26.359 --> 01:42:30.039 smaller parks. The first bosses go on time. The other 1684 01:42:30.039 --> 01:42:31.600 bosds are going to be when they are feel But 1685 01:42:31.640 --> 01:42:35.119 let me I don't just bring you back to I 1686 01:42:35.159 --> 01:42:37.760 know we didn't really answer the question about the infrastructure 1687 01:42:37.960 --> 01:42:40.279 of what Empten is doing with the tax credits. I'm 1688 01:42:40.319 --> 01:42:41.760 going to have to take a look at it because 1689 01:42:42.560 --> 01:42:46.520 essentially empty and builds, then Emptyn takes that money and 1690 01:42:46.600 --> 01:42:48.920 files taxes. I don't know where the bottleneck is from. 1691 01:42:48.920 --> 01:42:50.520 If you're saying you are plowing on it ch and 1692 01:42:50.600 --> 01:42:52.920 it's still not changed, I'm going to have to do 1693 01:42:52.960 --> 01:42:55.319 some research and see where really the problem is. Why 1694 01:42:55.359 --> 01:42:58.000 is it that empty and has not fixed that road. 1695 01:42:58.039 --> 01:42:59.920 This was not a long time ago, since twenty two 1696 01:43:00.079 --> 01:43:02.439 so when Buhari was in charge. That's when we passed 1697 01:43:02.479 --> 01:43:04.720 that tax credit. So let me do some research and 1698 01:43:04.760 --> 01:43:06.840 come back to you on what's happening with the tax credits. 1699 01:43:06.840 --> 01:43:11.399 I know NNPC did almost five hundred million dollars according 1700 01:43:11.439 --> 01:43:15.039 to them, to build roads and the first one they 1701 01:43:15.079 --> 01:43:18.960 did was the paper toward Yota Express Road. They fixed 1702 01:43:19.000 --> 01:43:21.479 the bottom Yota Express Road. Then they say they did 1703 01:43:21.520 --> 01:43:23.800 an extra five hundred million dollars. But you know it's 1704 01:43:23.800 --> 01:43:26.479 an NPC. We have to really check their numbers and 1705 01:43:26.520 --> 01:43:30.840 all that. And again Jostachus said, just to answer the 1706 01:43:30.920 --> 01:43:34.880 question that the gentleman asked Daniel, I believe that over 1707 01:43:35.800 --> 01:43:40.279 you know, in effect, in economics, that's what we call choice. 1708 01:43:40.880 --> 01:43:46.680 Because resources are scass. So China has three trillion, they 1709 01:43:46.720 --> 01:43:49.199 can afford to build there with no lost business. They 1710 01:43:49.199 --> 01:43:52.520 have three trillion in reserves. Nigeria has twenty or the 1711 01:43:52.600 --> 01:43:56.159 tety billion, so we can't build because of choice. We 1712 01:43:56.239 --> 01:43:59.479 have to maximize what one is saying if we know 1713 01:43:59.600 --> 01:44:02.640 it tacks to worry. I just shared a new chat. 1714 01:44:02.680 --> 01:44:04.279 Now if you look at a new chat we shared, 1715 01:44:04.880 --> 01:44:08.159 you said that I put the red lines across the 1716 01:44:08.279 --> 01:44:10.520 narrow gage roads. And if you look at the narrow 1717 01:44:10.520 --> 01:44:15.239 gage railways, we have standard gauge attack met to worry. 1718 01:44:15.800 --> 01:44:19.159 We have standard gauge Aja to Karna. Then we have 1719 01:44:19.239 --> 01:44:21.880 standard gauge legos to a bad On. If you look 1720 01:44:21.880 --> 01:44:24.359 at what we've done in Nigeria, look at the entire 1721 01:44:24.479 --> 01:44:28.359 real in Nigeria is narrow gauge. The entire rail is 1722 01:44:28.479 --> 01:44:31.960 narrow gauge. War We've down don Is, We've taken bits 1723 01:44:32.000 --> 01:44:36.600 of standard gauge and put it on that infrastructure, so 1724 01:44:36.640 --> 01:44:40.119 you really can't be integrated. You can't go from walk 1725 01:44:40.199 --> 01:44:43.880 from Kaduna to Abuja and go anywhere else by rail 1726 01:44:44.520 --> 01:44:50.279 because the rails after Abuja is narrow gauge. There's only 1727 01:44:50.479 --> 01:44:53.960 standard gauge from a to Karna then it stops. Same 1728 01:44:54.000 --> 01:44:57.079 with Legos. You can only go from Legos to a 1729 01:44:57.199 --> 01:45:00.880 Badon on standard gauge. After then it's narrow. Okay, so 1730 01:45:00.960 --> 01:45:03.640 the train just goes to your button and it stops there. 1731 01:45:04.039 --> 01:45:07.319 Attack but is ever worse. It's not connected to anything. 1732 01:45:08.000 --> 01:45:10.279 So the point is why build a real way not 1733 01:45:10.439 --> 01:45:14.880 connected to anything? Just put a BRT service there. It's 1734 01:45:14.920 --> 01:45:17.039 not you want to move right, build build to a 1735 01:45:17.159 --> 01:45:21.000 bus service there because it's not connected to any rail. 1736 01:45:21.760 --> 01:45:24.239 It's just there in the middle of nowhere. From attack 1737 01:45:24.279 --> 01:45:26.560 By to Worry. You can argue and say, okay, well, 1738 01:45:26.560 --> 01:45:28.880 can we build from Worry to the port. That's an 1739 01:45:28.960 --> 01:45:31.439 argument to her. Can we build from attack by toua 1740 01:45:32.000 --> 01:45:34.720 that's not argument to help. But as it stands today, 1741 01:45:35.520 --> 01:45:39.159 it's not connected to anything, so you might as well 1742 01:45:39.279 --> 01:45:42.720 just take it offline, replace it with a bus service, 1743 01:45:42.880 --> 01:45:46.279 brand new bosses or brand new trucks for cargo and 1744 01:45:46.319 --> 01:45:48.600 then like he told, I said, move that rail line 1745 01:45:48.640 --> 01:45:51.239 to where you have the highest need. So if you 1746 01:45:51.319 --> 01:45:53.880 get more rail carriages, there the cost in that squirre 1747 01:45:54.359 --> 01:45:57.720 fall and you just forget about the attack. But in 1748 01:45:57.840 --> 01:46:00.159 for now, because you have to have a try. Is 1749 01:46:00.159 --> 01:46:03.079 in economics the scale of preference. You can't do all 1750 01:46:03.520 --> 01:46:05.520 how to do with you one is going to give 1751 01:46:05.520 --> 01:46:08.840 you the maximum. That's what I'll say to that. So 1752 01:46:09.039 --> 01:46:19.439 if we answer your question, let's get sucker chucker. 1753 01:46:16.600 --> 01:46:17.760 Yeah, yeah, yeah, thank you. 1754 01:46:17.800 --> 01:46:21.399 My question again goes, what is the possibilities of this 1755 01:46:21.880 --> 01:46:25.039 mostly southern governances. We know because we are working on 1756 01:46:25.600 --> 01:46:28.359 the issue is economic developments? 1757 01:46:28.439 --> 01:46:28.960 Can you hemy? 1758 01:46:29.159 --> 01:46:29.680 I can hear you. 1759 01:46:30.479 --> 01:46:35.319 Yes. The point is economic development? What is where? 1760 01:46:35.560 --> 01:46:38.039 What is the most viable to both the economy and 1761 01:46:38.079 --> 01:46:39.800 we can we have analyzed. 1762 01:46:39.279 --> 01:46:40.640 As we should. 1763 01:46:40.960 --> 01:46:44.560 So why can't these governors with their short kilometer going 1764 01:46:44.600 --> 01:46:49.840 through Legos to Ondo a door to Delta, Delta to 1765 01:46:49.920 --> 01:46:53.399 a number, a number to Ego and we have river 1766 01:46:53.439 --> 01:46:57.439 stage because that is the east west through connecting Legos 1767 01:46:57.720 --> 01:47:00.920 via on HR and poor tackles you know for these 1768 01:47:01.920 --> 01:47:06.600 real and also maybe you can have a it's a 1769 01:47:06.640 --> 01:47:11.279 highway line from there you understand. So I want to 1770 01:47:11.319 --> 01:47:14.000 know any possibilities. 1771 01:47:14.159 --> 01:47:14.600 I get. 1772 01:47:16.039 --> 01:47:18.000 Your question, I get your question, and so name you 1773 01:47:18.000 --> 01:47:19.720 will speak. But let me just give you my own take. 1774 01:47:20.359 --> 01:47:23.079 You know, when we start up, I said, the issue 1775 01:47:23.079 --> 01:47:26.479 in Nigeria is this four year and eight year time limit. 1776 01:47:27.079 --> 01:47:30.199 If you start today, you know, in the past, railways 1777 01:47:30.199 --> 01:47:33.119 could only be built by the federal government of Nigeria, 1778 01:47:33.279 --> 01:47:36.119 not the states. Only the federal government. Now states can 1779 01:47:36.199 --> 01:47:40.640 build railways, but you can't build a railway get it operational. 1780 01:47:40.920 --> 01:47:43.439 I would even say in four years. It's very very hard. 1781 01:47:43.520 --> 01:47:46.199 Let's say you have the funding today, it's difficult to 1782 01:47:46.279 --> 01:47:49.680 build that whole railway line, get it funded and operation 1783 01:47:49.880 --> 01:47:53.159 in four years. You see where I'm coming from. So 1784 01:47:53.359 --> 01:47:56.079 any governor you go to today and you tell the governor, 1785 01:47:56.279 --> 01:47:59.319 let's build the real line from only Chat to our 1786 01:47:59.359 --> 01:48:03.239 bar to Niwi. That's a wonderful project because you are 1787 01:48:03.279 --> 01:48:06.479 content three clusters, so on a bat over and then 1788 01:48:06.479 --> 01:48:08.720 you credit it back to the rail line in Portacot, 1789 01:48:08.960 --> 01:48:11.760 so it's conduct to the federal line, but it's serving 1790 01:48:11.880 --> 01:48:15.720 in Nivy a bar on a cha beautiful idea. But 1791 01:48:15.880 --> 01:48:18.039 if you start today, it's the first thing you're going 1792 01:48:18.159 --> 01:48:21.359 going to raise capital. You raise capital, you go to 1793 01:48:21.640 --> 01:48:24.520 ic r C in for social REGULTI commissions to get approval. 1794 01:48:24.800 --> 01:48:27.399 Let's say you do all this in one year. You 1795 01:48:27.079 --> 01:48:30.319 can you now mobilize the contractors to site. They will 1796 01:48:30.399 --> 01:48:32.640 take at least six months to bring all their stuff 1797 01:48:32.640 --> 01:48:36.319 to site. Hire people, do survey. Do my piness on 1798 01:48:36.399 --> 01:48:39.199 that six years, on that six months. Then at least 1799 01:48:39.199 --> 01:48:41.279 on that one year you start to clear cleared road. 1800 01:48:41.479 --> 01:48:43.920 Two years has gone. You're now in the tired year. 1801 01:48:44.119 --> 01:48:47.000 Politics has started. Let's say you are in from politics. 1802 01:48:47.359 --> 01:48:49.960 You can't build the rail line in two years, so 1803 01:48:50.000 --> 01:48:53.319 you're not go for your second term. In your second term, fine, 1804 01:48:53.399 --> 01:48:56.760 you start to build. Can you compete in in five 1805 01:48:56.840 --> 01:49:00.600 years or in four years? Maybe you compete a bat tonary, 1806 01:49:00.960 --> 01:49:03.520 but can you do all three and connect it? 1807 01:49:03.680 --> 01:49:03.760 No? 1808 01:49:04.479 --> 01:49:07.119 So the problem is that it's no longer a governor. 1809 01:49:07.439 --> 01:49:10.239 It cannot be a governor chasing it. It's got to 1810 01:49:10.239 --> 01:49:13.159 be a region chasing it for the entire region. And 1811 01:49:13.239 --> 01:49:15.560 the governor's job is just to contribute to money. 1812 01:49:15.960 --> 01:49:19.119 So you have That's that's what I said. 1813 01:49:19.199 --> 01:49:23.159 But that's that's where I'm going to. So, so if 1814 01:49:23.199 --> 01:49:25.960 you fintance have the se DC, you have the naughtiest 1815 01:49:25.960 --> 01:49:28.359 of no commission. You have the oldest domination over the place. 1816 01:49:28.720 --> 01:49:32.000 If they simply say every quarter every month, we're going 1817 01:49:32.039 --> 01:49:36.199 to transfer funds from our fac to this fund and 1818 01:49:36.239 --> 01:49:40.079 you create an SPV. This SPV is the seat funding. 1819 01:49:40.159 --> 01:49:42.760 So the government puts seed funding. But the government can 1820 01:49:42.760 --> 01:49:47.000 also sell equity in this line to the diaspora Nigersey 1821 01:49:47.000 --> 01:49:49.600 and daspora and they own the railway line because that's 1822 01:49:49.600 --> 01:49:52.119 an asset. You then see are going to then build 1823 01:49:52.159 --> 01:49:56.399 this railway over fifteen twenty years and you would operate 1824 01:49:56.439 --> 01:49:59.840 it even at the loss. But it's for the it's 1825 01:50:00.159 --> 01:50:04.319 the southeast of the South South or whatever the point is. 1826 01:50:05.039 --> 01:50:08.159 You can't if you take away the who gets the credit. 1827 01:50:08.319 --> 01:50:10.880 This is very very easy to build. It doesn't cost 1828 01:50:10.920 --> 01:50:13.439 as much as you think. It doesn't cost that much. 1829 01:50:13.479 --> 01:50:17.119 But the governors that have the seed funding, I'm not 1830 01:50:17.199 --> 01:50:21.159 going to deploy that seed funding into a project that 1831 01:50:21.199 --> 01:50:26.079 they will not be personally call loaded for. That's my 1832 01:50:26.199 --> 01:50:29.279 own personal view. I could be wrong if you see 1833 01:50:29.279 --> 01:50:31.840 a governors have to build today, but look at the 1834 01:50:31.880 --> 01:50:35.000 Inugo State governors statement. He wants to build a real 1835 01:50:35.079 --> 01:50:38.399 way he himself from Inugu to honor. Notice he didn't 1836 01:50:38.399 --> 01:50:40.239 say I'm going to talk to my other brothers in 1837 01:50:40.279 --> 01:50:42.640 the southeast. I'm gonna come together. No, he wants to build. 1838 01:50:42.760 --> 01:50:46.680 It's a fantastic idea. But if everyone was doing it, 1839 01:50:46.760 --> 01:50:50.520 the cost will fall and it's more viable. Inug is 1840 01:50:50.560 --> 01:50:55.399 not near, it's not bothering cross rivers. That's the pastoral state, right, 1841 01:50:55.840 --> 01:50:58.279 So that thing's going to pass through. Will they give 1842 01:50:58.359 --> 01:51:02.159 him approval? Will they fund at a part of this project? 1843 01:51:02.279 --> 01:51:04.199 So you see it's this is the thing that you 1844 01:51:04.760 --> 01:51:09.600 can't build railway or riven roads on a silo micro basiness. 1845 01:51:09.640 --> 01:51:11.960 That's why I bought any in here today. You've got 1846 01:51:12.000 --> 01:51:14.720 to have a plan this road we're building. You know, 1847 01:51:14.720 --> 01:51:17.479 if you want to build a road inside Inugo state, 1848 01:51:18.199 --> 01:51:21.199 it'd be more expensive than if you could talk to 1849 01:51:21.279 --> 01:51:25.399 Inugo Emo happier Ebonie. And so let's build a five 1850 01:51:25.560 --> 01:51:29.680 state super highway. If you're bringing to thus burger and 1851 01:51:29.720 --> 01:51:31.880 you tell you those burger every month, we're going to 1852 01:51:31.960 --> 01:51:36.399 take ten percent of our fack without stoppage. We're going 1853 01:51:36.439 --> 01:51:39.239 to do an irrevocable standard that payment to go from 1854 01:51:39.239 --> 01:51:43.000 our farc to a bank. That bank account will pay you. 1855 01:51:43.199 --> 01:51:45.840 We want you to build us a ten lane expressway 1856 01:51:45.880 --> 01:51:49.239 connecting all the five eastern states with the railway line, 1857 01:51:49.359 --> 01:51:52.279 and this fund they will continue for the next twenty 1858 01:51:52.319 --> 01:51:55.800 five years. If Burger has such an arrangement, they'll start 1859 01:51:55.840 --> 01:51:57.520 to build it because they know even if the governor 1860 01:51:57.560 --> 01:52:00.680 goes away, they will get their money. It to be 1861 01:52:00.840 --> 01:52:05.159 cheaper than one state trying to build that same infrastructure. 1862 01:52:06.000 --> 01:52:08.800 So it's back to this thing. We don't talk about 1863 01:52:08.800 --> 01:52:12.880 politics and we don't plan long term. China can build 1864 01:52:12.880 --> 01:52:15.960 this thing because it's China America. They try to build 1865 01:52:16.000 --> 01:52:19.199 a real way in California Attilani and they haven't done it, 1866 01:52:19.479 --> 01:52:22.680 but some states have, so it's a in Nigeria is 1867 01:52:22.680 --> 01:52:25.439 a different animal. But I just think that everybody wants 1868 01:52:25.439 --> 01:52:28.479 to succeed. Everybody wants to succeed. You know, if you 1869 01:52:28.560 --> 01:52:31.199 go to the other states and you say this will 1870 01:52:31.239 --> 01:52:33.840 make your v eighty in twenty years to go up, 1871 01:52:34.560 --> 01:52:36.520 but you won't spend that much money today. I think 1872 01:52:36.520 --> 01:52:38.840 you'll get a lot of buying. But you have to 1873 01:52:38.880 --> 01:52:41.479 have a leader. Someone has to go and say and 1874 01:52:41.880 --> 01:52:44.439 hold it in and sell it, you know, we have 1875 01:52:44.479 --> 01:52:47.600 too many and I'm going to get into trouble. Now 1876 01:52:47.680 --> 01:52:51.079 Let'm just say it. What you call the southeast and 1877 01:52:51.159 --> 01:52:54.479 what you call the southwest today well wrung by one person. 1878 01:52:55.039 --> 01:53:00.439 I want to go around the southwest. He alone, Okbara 1879 01:53:00.479 --> 01:53:03.319 around the southeast. So if Michael Obara says it wanted 1880 01:53:03.359 --> 01:53:07.760 to build a railway, it's like how they wants to 1881 01:53:07.760 --> 01:53:09.800 build the railway from all mar Heir to albat He 1882 01:53:10.079 --> 01:53:13.439 just it's within his state. But now we're fragmented this 1883 01:53:13.600 --> 01:53:16.760 thing down to five states, six states that if you 1884 01:53:16.840 --> 01:53:19.439 state they want to build a railway in the Southwest, 1885 01:53:19.960 --> 01:53:21.880 you will see what will happen to go and say 1886 01:53:21.880 --> 01:53:25.399 it's one God will say is a PC or his 1887 01:53:25.479 --> 01:53:27.920 PDP all the most past through my state capital or 1888 01:53:27.920 --> 01:53:31.840 in my pasture here, then you get issues. So this 1889 01:53:32.000 --> 01:53:36.960 this fragmentation states versus regions, it's going back to bite us. 1890 01:53:37.319 --> 01:53:40.720 You know America they have the Valley wide you know 1891 01:53:40.760 --> 01:53:46.800 the River Valley Railway cluster. But here this state thing 1892 01:53:46.840 --> 01:53:50.600 you have Some states are too small to be states, 1893 01:53:50.600 --> 01:53:53.600 but they control a lot of land masks, which is 1894 01:53:54.000 --> 01:53:58.479 pivotal to infrastructure. You know what I'm saying, telling me, 1895 01:53:58.880 --> 01:54:01.520 if you can have. I just might take, Yeah, you 1896 01:54:01.680 --> 01:54:05.159 have to have buying a strong leader. If I want 1897 01:54:05.159 --> 01:54:07.239 to what today woke up and said we're going to 1898 01:54:07.319 --> 01:54:10.560 build railway in the Southwest, he would do it, but 1899 01:54:10.640 --> 01:54:12.199 I woke up to that I want to building it 1900 01:54:12.239 --> 01:54:14.159 because he can go to all those five dates and 1901 01:54:14.199 --> 01:54:16.560 say this is what you want to do. But look 1902 01:54:16.600 --> 01:54:21.079 at your political governance today. Which governor do you think 1903 01:54:21.199 --> 01:54:24.720 can core less five different governors and say hey, let's 1904 01:54:24.720 --> 01:54:28.439 take ten percent of a park and deploy a railway. 1905 01:54:28.439 --> 01:54:30.560 Which one do you think? You have a name? Which 1906 01:54:30.560 --> 01:54:33.600 one you think I do it? They're all competing in 1907 01:54:33.640 --> 01:54:36.600 a way. So that's Tucker that it's a problem I 1908 01:54:36.600 --> 01:54:40.399 would like to you. But yeah, modestas you have something, say. 1909 01:54:42.439 --> 01:54:42.640 Yes. 1910 01:54:42.720 --> 01:54:48.720 I just wanted to offer to three points on this issue. 1911 01:54:50.520 --> 01:54:55.239 The first one is, like the Southeastern States, they are 1912 01:54:55.319 --> 01:54:59.520 very very easy to be connected through a tram system. 1913 01:54:59.560 --> 01:55:04.279 A tram line doesn't cost as much as the train 1914 01:55:04.359 --> 01:55:07.720 line and it's equally the same purpose. You can serve 1915 01:55:07.760 --> 01:55:09.680 the same purpose and very very dark costs. 1916 01:55:10.720 --> 01:55:14.039 Those trams are saying like in in in Germany, traming 1917 01:55:14.239 --> 01:55:18.399 in Germany Europe carries carry Yeah, they. 1918 01:55:18.239 --> 01:55:20.199 Carry a lot so the fat is almost the same 1919 01:55:20.199 --> 01:55:22.159 thing with the train. But the only good thing there 1920 01:55:22.319 --> 01:55:26.560 is they use electric. It just connected to the sub 1921 01:55:26.640 --> 01:55:31.239 station and then it powers it easily. It moves on. Yeah, 1922 01:55:31.279 --> 01:55:35.640 it is electric. So because we have so many like 1923 01:55:35.880 --> 01:55:38.039 if we go to the Eastern Corridor there we have 1924 01:55:38.279 --> 01:55:41.399 some power station. There are quite a few power stations around. 1925 01:55:41.880 --> 01:55:43.800 All you need to do is just to connect it 1926 01:55:43.880 --> 01:55:46.399 there and the trams can just connect. 1927 01:55:46.439 --> 01:55:50.359 The whole East stays very very is very very cheaped around. 1928 01:55:50.439 --> 01:55:53.680 Very nice network and it's fat is not even going 1929 01:55:53.760 --> 01:55:54.279 to take. 1930 01:55:54.159 --> 01:55:58.359 Too much to do, So that is one side of it. 1931 01:55:59.439 --> 01:56:06.000 Then I'm also worried about this Nigerian population projections. We 1932 01:56:06.000 --> 01:56:07.920 are created to get to try to four to five 1933 01:56:07.960 --> 01:56:11.520 U red million in the next twenty years, but it's 1934 01:56:11.600 --> 01:56:16.039 like we are not planning for that, and it's one 1935 01:56:16.079 --> 01:56:19.079 of the things that has struggled with all along. 1936 01:56:19.199 --> 01:56:21.199 Every time I look at the state budget. 1937 01:56:20.920 --> 01:56:25.960 In the Southeast, the capitol budget is always rude. Since 1938 01:56:25.960 --> 01:56:28.680 I was born, he has always been rolled, and I 1939 01:56:28.760 --> 01:56:31.560 tend to wonder if the rules has increased, if the 1940 01:56:31.640 --> 01:56:36.760 land has increased, because it's like every every year the 1941 01:56:36.800 --> 01:56:40.640 governors do the budget for the same road, that same road. 1942 01:56:41.399 --> 01:56:44.319 You know, it hasn't increased in size, but he has 1943 01:56:44.359 --> 01:56:47.319 always taken fifty to sixty percent of the budget on 1944 01:56:47.359 --> 01:56:50.840 a yearly basis. And I think I have looked into 1945 01:56:50.880 --> 01:56:52.880 it to look at the corporates about it. It's like 1946 01:56:53.680 --> 01:56:56.359 when a governor says I'm commissioning a four kilolited road, 1947 01:56:56.760 --> 01:56:59.439 he gets more accolade than when he does. 1948 01:56:59.640 --> 01:57:00.359 N you that there. 1949 01:57:01.039 --> 01:57:04.319 So what they do is rather than saying because in Europe, 1950 01:57:04.359 --> 01:57:07.800 here I'll develop. Very frankly too, those whom maintain your 1951 01:57:07.840 --> 01:57:09.760 roads here are not even dedicated. They're not even they 1952 01:57:09.760 --> 01:57:13.520 didn't even go to invest They build the road that 1953 01:57:13.720 --> 01:57:17.119 those people maintain ify. They drive every day looking for 1954 01:57:17.239 --> 01:57:20.439 where there is a smart end and the patch the 1955 01:57:20.520 --> 01:57:25.199 top roadworks is almost on a daily basis to maintain 1956 01:57:25.279 --> 01:57:29.439 those existing roads that has already been built. So the problem, 1957 01:57:29.600 --> 01:57:32.199 one of the problems we have, it's not even consulting 1958 01:57:32.239 --> 01:57:36.079 new one, it's maintaining existing ones. You can pick a 1959 01:57:36.159 --> 01:57:38.720 road in Nigeria and find that it's been awarded and 1960 01:57:38.880 --> 01:57:41.039 awarded and awarded and awarded. 1961 01:57:41.520 --> 01:57:43.119 It's like a conduit pipe. 1962 01:57:43.760 --> 01:57:44.039 We are. 1963 01:57:44.079 --> 01:57:47.439 Governors use it to wreke money, you know, and it 1964 01:57:47.600 --> 01:57:51.439 really really annoys me too much because we have sort 1965 01:57:51.479 --> 01:57:55.319 of put governors and add road building on top of 1966 01:57:55.359 --> 01:57:59.399 it as a metric to measure the level of governance 1967 01:57:59.479 --> 01:58:02.439 and what people are doing. And because we have done that, 1968 01:58:03.000 --> 01:58:05.199 it's like you have sucked out the life of every 1969 01:58:05.239 --> 01:58:06.640 other infratuary development. 1970 01:58:06.880 --> 01:58:10.600 We're not talking about interssualization. We're not talking about building 1971 01:58:11.159 --> 01:58:12.279 infractures of. 1972 01:58:12.319 --> 01:58:17.159 That served as employment, like you know, having employment hobs, 1973 01:58:17.199 --> 01:58:18.720 having manufacturing hobs. 1974 01:58:18.880 --> 01:58:21.239 You know, if I myself, I feel. 1975 01:58:21.000 --> 01:58:25.800 That the governor should even put more money in manufacturing 1976 01:58:26.319 --> 01:58:28.760 and then led the companies themselves build the accessory that 1977 01:58:28.840 --> 01:58:31.159 goes to their places. But that's how most of the 1978 01:58:31.199 --> 01:58:34.359 towns in Europe are built, the building dossal area and 1979 01:58:34.399 --> 01:58:36.720 then the accessory befollow through CSA. 1980 01:58:37.359 --> 01:58:38.560 That is one or that things. 1981 01:58:38.560 --> 01:58:40.119 One of that thing I also want to talk about 1982 01:58:40.479 --> 01:58:46.279 and accidently local authorities to maintain their rows, you know, 1983 01:58:46.399 --> 01:58:49.720 like you did mentionquay building in the temport. I paid, 1984 01:58:50.319 --> 01:58:53.039 my dad measured that I paid. Every child paid their 1985 01:58:53.039 --> 01:58:55.920 money who went to primary school in them days, primary 1986 01:58:55.960 --> 01:59:00.319 secondary invasion all paid because we took ownership was so 1987 01:59:00.560 --> 01:59:04.359 to us as this thing belongs to us, and because 1988 01:59:04.399 --> 01:59:06.399 it was so to us, we are so passionate to 1989 01:59:06.439 --> 01:59:09.439 pay for it. But this time around it's like the 1990 01:59:09.439 --> 01:59:12.039 governors have taken it. Okay, oh, I can only be 1991 01:59:12.199 --> 01:59:15.600 measured by the road that we open up the next 1992 01:59:15.680 --> 01:59:19.159 day because of our topography. You know, a governor people 1993 01:59:19.199 --> 01:59:21.920 one road in Namos and it does opened many the 1994 01:59:22.079 --> 01:59:25.159 rents and came in. He opened everywhere and you were 1995 01:59:25.199 --> 01:59:27.960 saying what you therefore acid on the road that was 1996 01:59:28.039 --> 01:59:31.000 his naivity. He said, why is this road? I commentioned it, 1997 01:59:31.079 --> 01:59:33.920 I drove past it and now it's open. But he 1998 01:59:34.000 --> 01:59:36.600 didn't know that the block there is the topographs of 1999 01:59:36.640 --> 01:59:39.479 the area means that some of the really tones that 2000 01:59:39.520 --> 01:59:41.720 the underground where as soon as the ring goes he 2001 01:59:41.800 --> 01:59:45.039 will come up. But if he has known that, he 2002 01:59:45.199 --> 01:59:47.680 probably would have been able to sell. Look, I need 2003 01:59:47.760 --> 01:59:50.159 to maintain this rules and the thing there that really 2004 01:59:50.199 --> 01:59:53.840 really struck me most of the times, since we don't 2005 01:59:53.920 --> 01:59:56.600 really look at it to say, how do we develop 2006 01:59:56.680 --> 02:00:01.279 our mechanical engineers as civil engineers? Why do we still 2007 02:00:01.319 --> 02:00:05.000 our w root projects to stand contractors from abroad? 2008 02:00:05.880 --> 02:00:08.239 What are they doing in Europe? 2009 02:00:09.000 --> 02:00:11.840 You can even go to carts Apular website and buy 2010 02:00:11.920 --> 02:00:15.079 the entire machinery to describe. 2011 02:00:14.720 --> 02:00:16.800 The old one, put the new one and do it 2012 02:00:16.880 --> 02:00:19.000 to raise and repeats two three terms in a year. 2013 02:00:19.800 --> 02:00:23.319 But it's like it's a very big revenue draining for 2014 02:00:23.439 --> 02:00:24.880 these local authorities and governors. 2015 02:00:25.079 --> 02:00:29.039 They do that a lot and annoyment to help there. 2016 02:00:29.119 --> 02:00:34.520 You talked about the overcraft. The waterways. Europe is connected 2017 02:00:34.600 --> 02:00:38.159 by canals. The build these canals to use it to 2018 02:00:38.359 --> 02:00:42.520 move their heavehicles. They build it at that time of 2019 02:00:42.600 --> 02:00:45.640 the height of the industrial revolution and instill serving them. 2020 02:00:46.199 --> 02:00:50.279 We have waterways all across the country. It's something that 2021 02:00:50.439 --> 02:00:52.640 we really really need to start thinking of how do 2022 02:00:52.760 --> 02:00:55.920 we develop that. You know, it's a very easy thing, 2023 02:00:56.640 --> 02:01:00.000 but it's like our people don't really have that vision 2024 02:01:00.479 --> 02:01:03.319 to say, how do I do this? How do I 2025 02:01:03.479 --> 02:01:07.039 connect these networks for economic development? How do I move 2026 02:01:07.079 --> 02:01:11.279 goods from our area to Cameroon? How do I do 2027 02:01:11.479 --> 02:01:14.439 that at the scale? And then once you're able to 2028 02:01:14.560 --> 02:01:16.760 do that, it can bring like mine together to say, look, 2029 02:01:17.239 --> 02:01:19.560 people like tolering that to see I said, look, develop 2030 02:01:19.640 --> 02:01:22.880 a policy for me that I can use and implement 2031 02:01:23.239 --> 02:01:28.039 and then have that vision from inception to implementation, and 2032 02:01:28.159 --> 02:01:30.720 then you can begin to see the economism scare that 2033 02:01:30.840 --> 02:01:33.279 comes from that, but we are not doing it. It's 2034 02:01:33.319 --> 02:01:36.439 like everything about us is short term, short term, short term. 2035 02:01:36.880 --> 02:01:39.960 You know, people are just eager to please, even though 2036 02:01:40.159 --> 02:01:42.359 it doesn't really make sense. It will not even last 2037 02:01:42.960 --> 02:01:45.680 year the next election, it might not even last. So 2038 02:01:45.800 --> 02:01:48.439 these are the tiss I wanted to talk about. But 2039 02:01:48.880 --> 02:01:52.000 I really feel that in the Southeast we need to 2040 02:01:52.039 --> 02:01:54.239 look at the dram system. Each of these days are 2041 02:01:54.279 --> 02:01:56.640 not more than for the five minutes toumb if you 2042 02:01:57.159 --> 02:02:01.159 for five miles apart from but that got to over. 2043 02:02:01.279 --> 02:02:04.159 It's only for five minutes on the bus, on the 2044 02:02:04.239 --> 02:02:07.039 tram driving a seventy mice from now it can even 2045 02:02:07.159 --> 02:02:10.680 get there in twenty minutes because tramps can do a 2046 02:02:10.760 --> 02:02:14.439 top seed of seventy to eighty cler. And these are 2047 02:02:14.520 --> 02:02:16.680 some of the things that these people they come to it, 2048 02:02:16.840 --> 02:02:18.920 they jump on these trams, but when they go back 2049 02:02:18.920 --> 02:02:22.000 they don't really ask why is this so efficient? 2050 02:02:22.199 --> 02:02:22.920 How can I do that? 2051 02:02:23.800 --> 02:02:26.880 You know, it's like the bigger things people I just 2052 02:02:27.119 --> 02:02:28.520 fed looked up on. 2053 02:02:28.560 --> 02:02:31.840 The bigger We want the seaport, we want a rail line. 2054 02:02:33.920 --> 02:02:39.119 I honestly think that we need to connect intra we 2055 02:02:39.159 --> 02:02:41.479 talk about the seaport, I think the roads and the 2056 02:02:41.640 --> 02:02:46.680 rails connecting Nigeria all the state capitals. To me, says 2057 02:02:46.960 --> 02:02:50.199 bigger even the seaport, because there's a lot of commerce 2058 02:02:50.279 --> 02:02:53.039 that is lost. A lot of commerce is lost because 2059 02:02:53.079 --> 02:02:56.159 we don't have roads. We have mango season. If you 2060 02:02:56.199 --> 02:02:59.039 go to Benveested today, there's the mangos on the floor 2061 02:02:59.199 --> 02:03:02.399 rotting the way, rotten away. If you go on tomatoeses 2062 02:03:02.479 --> 02:03:06.520 into canno, tomatoes rotting away, onions rotting away. But there 2063 02:03:06.560 --> 02:03:09.279 are no roads to take the tomatoes. Mangoes are from 2064 02:03:09.319 --> 02:03:11.920 the north to the start where the where the markets are. 2065 02:03:12.000 --> 02:03:15.640 Look at PMS, we're paying so looking. 2066 02:03:15.439 --> 02:03:18.520 At it from the transportation side of it, what I'm 2067 02:03:18.600 --> 02:03:23.880 looking at is what stops ben from investing in technology 2068 02:03:23.920 --> 02:03:26.039 to the excess mangos. 2069 02:03:26.720 --> 02:03:28.520 That is the point. But that is the point. But 2070 02:03:28.920 --> 02:03:31.039 when you storage, you still have to move it. You 2071 02:03:31.159 --> 02:03:32.039 still have to move it. 2072 02:03:34.079 --> 02:03:34.680 If you know it. 2073 02:03:34.800 --> 02:03:35.399 That's scale. 2074 02:03:35.880 --> 02:03:38.840 You cannot begin to have people who actually know what 2075 02:03:39.000 --> 02:03:40.640 to do in terms of distribution. 2076 02:03:41.000 --> 02:03:43.119 I'm not I'm not disputing that. I'm just staying because 2077 02:03:43.119 --> 02:03:46.800 we're talking more of transportation, the issue is still that 2078 02:03:46.920 --> 02:03:50.159 you need to transport food from where it's grown to 2079 02:03:50.239 --> 02:03:52.439 where it's consumed. It's just at the topic today is 2080 02:03:52.479 --> 02:03:56.079 I'm not against storage, No, no, your complic correct value 2081 02:03:56.119 --> 02:04:00.920 chain needs that investment, right, But still the rural as 2082 02:04:00.960 --> 02:04:03.640 I start off the topic with diffree, diffree, at a 2083 02:04:03.840 --> 02:04:07.479 very very base level, it's talking about building infrastructure at 2084 02:04:07.520 --> 02:04:11.880 the rural villages, going to the villages where there's cassava, 2085 02:04:12.039 --> 02:04:15.079 where there's sorgum and millet, and building doesn't even if 2086 02:04:15.119 --> 02:04:17.640 there's a road that can take a little truck from 2087 02:04:17.720 --> 02:04:20.399 that village to the bigger town, then to the bigger 2088 02:04:20.479 --> 02:04:23.159 town others to the cities, and that's the whole way. 2089 02:04:23.239 --> 02:04:26.359 That's how you develop really and the infrastructure has got 2090 02:04:26.359 --> 02:04:28.520 to be connected is to gain the points you know. 2091 02:04:29.239 --> 02:04:32.319 Yeah, yeah, Just to circle back on that then, you said, 2092 02:04:32.840 --> 02:04:36.399 my grandfather used to work for Minister of Works at 2093 02:04:36.439 --> 02:04:38.800 the time when I was very very young. We used 2094 02:04:38.800 --> 02:04:41.960 to go to the local authority. Every local government in 2095 02:04:42.560 --> 02:04:45.199 this is done used to have a minister of works. 2096 02:04:45.399 --> 02:04:47.199 And how you know that this minister of works is 2097 02:04:47.239 --> 02:04:49.479 that you see a heap of Quota, you see a 2098 02:04:49.560 --> 02:04:51.800 heap of Ashford, and then you see a lot of 2099 02:04:51.880 --> 02:04:54.039 shovels that you see a lot of that in the 2100 02:04:54.119 --> 02:04:57.319 local authority, in the local government headquarter, and every morning 2101 02:04:57.359 --> 02:04:59.960 they go out and patch the roads within their local authority. 2102 02:05:00.720 --> 02:05:02.520 That keeps every road. 2103 02:05:02.960 --> 02:05:06.439 In termshape because the people in that minute, in that 2104 02:05:06.560 --> 02:05:09.359 local authority have to go to work on a daily basis. 2105 02:05:10.039 --> 02:05:13.079 But when we started this issue of contracts, that's when 2106 02:05:13.159 --> 02:05:16.720 they begin to disband all this stuff. And yet Europe 2107 02:05:16.920 --> 02:05:20.920 that we learn from still maintain that it is a 2108 02:05:21.000 --> 02:05:24.359 local authority in England that build the roads. Within the 2109 02:05:24.479 --> 02:05:29.159 local authority, it's them that maintained even the trunk air 2110 02:05:29.239 --> 02:05:32.000 from b and even the access roads and all the 2111 02:05:32.119 --> 02:05:34.520 roads that link to the to the major highway. 2112 02:05:36.079 --> 02:05:37.960 The way I know, the way I know it's a 2113 02:05:38.159 --> 02:05:41.239 summer is that I see road maintenance. That's how I 2114 02:05:41.359 --> 02:05:46.079 know it's summer. Once it's summer, that's maintenance all over 2115 02:05:46.119 --> 02:05:46.520 the place. 2116 02:05:47.159 --> 02:05:49.560 We need to bring back that so that the governors 2117 02:05:49.600 --> 02:05:54.119 to stop thinking about this routing wander eating billions and billions, 2118 02:05:54.560 --> 02:05:56.359 and then at the end of the day the state 2119 02:05:56.439 --> 02:06:00.960 passes through those local authorities that could have been better position. 2120 02:06:01.319 --> 02:06:04.000 At least we're talking about creating of jobs. We don't 2121 02:06:04.079 --> 02:06:07.159 have jobs. We don't have people who are even trained 2122 02:06:07.199 --> 02:06:09.880 in the universities to do work in all these in 2123 02:06:10.359 --> 02:06:12.760 in all these sectors of the economy that we're talking about. 2124 02:06:13.079 --> 02:06:15.159 You know, when you bring you lots bigger, they put 2125 02:06:15.479 --> 02:06:18.239 two machines there on the road, and then the employe 2126 02:06:18.319 --> 02:06:21.279 only ten people, and it's a forty billion NARRA contract. 2127 02:06:21.880 --> 02:06:22.760 You don't even see. 2128 02:06:22.760 --> 02:06:25.720 I don't even see the advantage for the people who 2129 02:06:25.760 --> 02:06:28.439 are there in terms of revenue, in terms of employment. 2130 02:06:28.920 --> 02:06:30.600 If you put it you lots bigger and they use 2131 02:06:30.680 --> 02:06:34.039 sixty billion to build the road and the employeely ten people, 2132 02:06:34.880 --> 02:06:37.199 what does that even tell us? And this is I 2133 02:06:37.279 --> 02:06:39.880 think some oney tends. I feel that those who are 2134 02:06:39.880 --> 02:06:42.079 I see them when I go to Nadia, and it 2135 02:06:42.199 --> 02:06:44.640 really really scares me because that is not how it 2136 02:06:44.760 --> 02:06:45.119 is done. 2137 02:06:45.600 --> 02:06:50.840 I got you to me. I mean we've talked a lot. 2138 02:06:50.920 --> 02:06:53.800 Do you have any comments on the exchange? I mean, 2139 02:06:53.880 --> 02:06:56.880 he's really going down to the maintenance side of it. 2140 02:06:57.920 --> 02:07:01.279 Is this something that if you talk about again, if 2141 02:07:01.359 --> 02:07:06.079 you had one point three trillion and you had infrastructure 2142 02:07:06.159 --> 02:07:09.239 broken down, I personally would have focused on fixing the 2143 02:07:09.520 --> 02:07:13.159 existing roads, at least getting them motorable. You've talked about 2144 02:07:13.199 --> 02:07:16.279 the local job cluster that is blocked on, the CHI 2145 02:07:16.399 --> 02:07:18.880 cluster is blocked out there than going to build a 2146 02:07:19.079 --> 02:07:22.680 brand new you know, at one point tillion coast road 2147 02:07:22.680 --> 02:07:24.279 that's not going to be built in next ten years. 2148 02:07:24.319 --> 02:07:26.920 So what's your take on just the composition so far. 2149 02:07:30.479 --> 02:07:34.960 I'm not sure if you can still hear me to Nami. Yeah, sorry, 2150 02:07:35.159 --> 02:07:37.199 s sorry, go for it. 2151 02:07:38.199 --> 02:07:43.359 Yeah, thanks modestas for our sharing, for sharing that information. 2152 02:07:44.880 --> 02:07:48.439 For in terms of maintenance, it is a it is 2153 02:07:48.479 --> 02:07:55.159 a critical part. Unfortunately, it is not glitzy or glamours 2154 02:07:57.279 --> 02:08:00.840 lucrative for governors, so it doesn't get get the attention 2155 02:08:00.960 --> 02:08:01.640 that it needs. 2156 02:08:02.199 --> 02:08:06.279 So governors always focus on what new project they're. 2157 02:08:06.119 --> 02:08:08.640 Going to bring in. If we. 2158 02:08:11.960 --> 02:08:18.520 Building building roads or any transport infrastructure is not just. 2159 02:08:20.159 --> 02:08:23.800 Building the infrastructure. You have to maintain that infrastructure. 2160 02:08:25.000 --> 02:08:32.720 And that's one thing why for example, like the states 2161 02:08:32.800 --> 02:08:38.640 that have brought out their real master plans, because rail 2162 02:08:39.399 --> 02:08:45.000 is something thats a lot of operational aptitude to be 2163 02:08:45.079 --> 02:08:47.399 able to get it, to get the best out of it, 2164 02:08:48.359 --> 02:08:52.800 and if you're not able to operate, then it's a 2165 02:08:52.840 --> 02:08:55.640 total waste of resources. 2166 02:08:56.039 --> 02:08:57.520 So all those. 2167 02:08:57.399 --> 02:09:00.199 States that are talking about real master plant is rail 2168 02:09:00.279 --> 02:09:05.520 mater blind that they'll be better served using that money. 2169 02:09:07.000 --> 02:09:10.239 To fix the roads. 2170 02:09:10.279 --> 02:09:12.520 Like you say, fix the existing roads, we have lots 2171 02:09:12.560 --> 02:09:15.319 of very very poor roads that. 2172 02:09:15.439 --> 02:09:18.560 In poor conditions. Fix the existing roads to. 2173 02:09:20.479 --> 02:09:26.800 Allow people to move more efficiently within the states, so 2174 02:09:26.880 --> 02:09:28.399 they'll get more value out of that. 2175 02:09:28.600 --> 02:09:32.840 It was a research done on the Chinese road road. 2176 02:09:32.720 --> 02:09:38.359 Infrastructure and a conclusion of the finding was that the 2177 02:09:42.520 --> 02:09:46.159 the rural roads where they had a. 2178 02:09:49.640 --> 02:09:51.239 Was it economic value. 2179 02:09:50.960 --> 02:09:55.720 That was four times four times those of the major expressways. 2180 02:09:57.079 --> 02:09:59.720 So there's a lot of value that is locked in 2181 02:10:00.079 --> 02:10:03.079 and a lot of these rules that are connecting agriculture 2182 02:10:03.079 --> 02:10:09.159 from agricultural source to points of consumption that or just 2183 02:10:09.520 --> 02:10:15.119 just linking linking those rural areas so that they can 2184 02:10:15.239 --> 02:10:18.600 get their products to the main roads. That would be 2185 02:10:18.760 --> 02:10:24.439 that's a source of make out the a major value 2186 02:10:24.479 --> 02:10:28.920 addition for the states. In regards to the part about 2187 02:10:31.439 --> 02:10:34.920 In regards to the part about trams, trams are for 2188 02:10:36.399 --> 02:10:42.279 urban urban movements. So in a lot in European cities 2189 02:10:42.319 --> 02:10:45.920 that have that operate trams, they're only they only served. 2190 02:10:47.359 --> 02:10:50.359 In Yeah, they only. 2191 02:10:50.239 --> 02:10:54.520 Serve the urban area because the trams they have the 2192 02:10:54.680 --> 02:10:56.159 rails that are used for trams. 2193 02:10:56.239 --> 02:10:57.359 They're different from. 2194 02:10:57.199 --> 02:11:02.800 The rails that are used for for mainline rail. 2195 02:11:04.840 --> 02:11:09.000 Because they have to they're designed so that people don't 2196 02:11:09.119 --> 02:11:14.159 trip on it, so it has a lower weight paring capacity, so. 2197 02:11:15.920 --> 02:11:18.119 And so that they can place it because they usually 2198 02:11:18.199 --> 02:11:18.840 place them in the. 2199 02:11:18.880 --> 02:11:22.359 Streets because they have people walking across the streets, cars 2200 02:11:22.439 --> 02:11:23.640 crossing across the street. 2201 02:11:24.439 --> 02:11:26.399 So in terms of. 2202 02:11:29.520 --> 02:11:32.880 In terms of using those trams are I would say 2203 02:11:32.960 --> 02:11:37.039 trams are not really suitable for Nigerian cities because for 2204 02:11:37.600 --> 02:11:45.600 the trams as a like main urban transit system, they 2205 02:11:45.720 --> 02:11:48.039 only serve like very small cities. 2206 02:11:49.159 --> 02:11:54.560 Once your city gets larger than a million or more. 2207 02:11:54.520 --> 02:12:00.760 People, it's best to just build metal lines serve because 2208 02:12:01.239 --> 02:12:05.279 the trams metro lines have higher carring capacity than trams. 2209 02:12:06.399 --> 02:12:15.800 Uh and for for intercity travel for passengers, that's. 2210 02:12:15.600 --> 02:12:19.000 Where the whole point of this regional this inter city 2211 02:12:19.119 --> 02:12:24.359 rail it's it's it's different from a tram line. So 2212 02:12:24.560 --> 02:12:31.239 that's like a mainline heavy heavy rail for inter city traffic. 2213 02:12:31.520 --> 02:12:31.920 For that. 2214 02:12:34.039 --> 02:12:40.079 Unless the like if it's for the southeast, unless all 2215 02:12:40.159 --> 02:12:44.000 the states come together and build the entire route. 2216 02:12:44.039 --> 02:12:50.159 From Port Hardcourts to an Hl to Ugole, then it's 2217 02:12:50.199 --> 02:12:52.560 not useful if you only build sections of it, like 2218 02:12:52.640 --> 02:12:57.239 for example, the memo, build only the section within EMO, 2219 02:12:57.640 --> 02:13:00.920 then it's useless exactly until. 2220 02:13:00.680 --> 02:13:04.760 You build the entire thing, then there's no point in 2221 02:13:05.159 --> 02:13:07.079 doing in doing that. 2222 02:13:07.239 --> 02:13:11.920 So for the for the inter city reel, it's either 2223 02:13:12.359 --> 02:13:16.399 the region comes together and builds it at once, or 2224 02:13:16.520 --> 02:13:19.920 the federal government does it like the federal government has 2225 02:13:19.960 --> 02:13:22.359 been doing for the other other railways, and the federal 2226 02:13:22.359 --> 02:13:28.199 government takes the initiative to do it from the federal level. Yeah. 2227 02:13:28.239 --> 02:13:32.439 Otherwise it's it's just for the states. The states should 2228 02:13:32.520 --> 02:13:39.600 not be having real as something that as something that 2229 02:13:39.720 --> 02:13:43.279 is part of their infrastructure plan. It should be roads. 2230 02:13:43.520 --> 02:13:46.159 They should be focused on roads and linking those, fixing 2231 02:13:46.199 --> 02:13:47.159 the existing roads. 2232 02:13:47.680 --> 02:13:49.439 And in terms of like urban. 2233 02:13:51.640 --> 02:13:56.880 Urban movement, they should be planning metro systems. 2234 02:13:57.079 --> 02:14:00.640 Not every state, not every city moves one. 2235 02:14:00.840 --> 02:14:04.600 Right now, the only city is that that need a 2236 02:14:04.680 --> 02:14:05.239 metro in the. 2237 02:14:05.279 --> 02:14:11.319 Southeast apport maybe a BA, and they should. 2238 02:14:11.079 --> 02:14:15.479 Be planning for those, and they could start by running 2239 02:14:15.560 --> 02:14:19.079 bus services and then they should be planning for those 2240 02:14:19.159 --> 02:14:20.359 routes and fund. 2241 02:14:21.920 --> 02:14:24.680 Try to get funding for the major. 2242 02:14:24.479 --> 02:14:29.640 Corridors, and then you build those major corridors and you 2243 02:14:29.840 --> 02:14:34.479 feed it with buses, and that's how you serve your 2244 02:14:35.520 --> 02:14:39.840 your urban space. For the most a lot of Nigerian 2245 02:14:39.920 --> 02:14:42.560 cities are way too big to be served by trams. 2246 02:14:42.640 --> 02:14:46.479 At this point, you might, well. 2247 02:14:46.399 --> 02:14:47.960 I do want to talk. I don't want to confirm 2248 02:14:48.119 --> 02:14:52.000 why you think the states can do real. You set 2249 02:14:52.000 --> 02:14:55.119 to focus on roads. Is it costs or if it 2250 02:14:55.199 --> 02:14:56.840 still has got the money. Lego still has a lot 2251 02:14:56.880 --> 02:14:59.960 of money, Acquiment has a lot of money, Delta has 2252 02:15:00.000 --> 02:15:01.840 a lot of money. Why can't those states do real? 2253 02:15:02.600 --> 02:15:05.159 Even Delta states are going to do a saba to 2254 02:15:05.319 --> 02:15:07.840 whatever they can fund it. Why can't they do real? 2255 02:15:09.520 --> 02:15:09.720 Yeah? 2256 02:15:09.800 --> 02:15:13.960 The thing with the thing with reel is reel is only. 2257 02:15:16.279 --> 02:15:19.439 It's only useful for long distances, and most of the 2258 02:15:19.479 --> 02:15:26.000 states in Nigeria the relatively. So if your state is 2259 02:15:26.079 --> 02:15:29.479 not crossing many state lines, if the rail line is 2260 02:15:29.520 --> 02:15:33.159 not crossing many state lines, then it's not going to. 2261 02:15:33.199 --> 02:15:34.760 Be that much valuable. 2262 02:15:35.039 --> 02:15:36.359 Makes sense, I get to know. 2263 02:15:36.560 --> 02:15:39.560 So rather than putting that money, tying up that money 2264 02:15:39.600 --> 02:15:43.239 on that short rail line, it's best to put that 2265 02:15:43.359 --> 02:15:47.039 money into roads that can actually benefit benefits the people 2266 02:15:47.119 --> 02:15:51.760 that immediately. If the only time that money should go 2267 02:15:51.840 --> 02:15:55.840 to reil is if there is a consortium, like all 2268 02:15:55.920 --> 02:15:58.119 the states want to build in a region, I say 2269 02:15:58.119 --> 02:16:01.920 the Southwest, all the south States, they agree, they put 2270 02:16:01.960 --> 02:16:07.680 the funding in, and then they build the entire the 2271 02:16:07.920 --> 02:16:13.720 entire route. If each state is building their own building 2272 02:16:13.800 --> 02:16:16.640 their own rail just for the state, Yeah, it's not 2273 02:16:16.720 --> 02:16:16.960 going to. 2274 02:16:17.000 --> 02:16:17.720 Be very small. 2275 02:16:17.920 --> 02:16:19.640 Yeah it makes sense. I see we're going to with 2276 02:16:19.760 --> 02:16:22.279 that's some guys. You want to speak a preepole real quick? 2277 02:16:22.319 --> 02:16:22.840 What's in your mind? 2278 02:16:24.720 --> 02:16:28.000 Hi? Just to build up what you just mentioned with 2279 02:16:28.199 --> 02:16:31.039 the with the corridors between the states, and you. 2280 02:16:31.159 --> 02:16:35.079 Talked about our private private players might not be the 2281 02:16:35.239 --> 02:16:39.879 best option to participate in another transport link. Well, I 2282 02:16:39.920 --> 02:16:44.559 wanted to just maybe run through this scenario where where 2283 02:16:44.600 --> 02:16:47.879 you have in some place and you're where certain routes 2284 02:16:47.920 --> 02:16:53.280 are given to exclusively to some players to run bus transportation. 2285 02:16:53.719 --> 02:16:56.639 I guess they do there and it seems to be profitable. 2286 02:16:57.520 --> 02:17:01.479 Is are they oppor similar opportunities on bus routes so 2287 02:17:01.680 --> 02:17:04.840 certain corridors where it will be profitable for a private 2288 02:17:04.879 --> 02:17:08.559 player to have exclusive rights to run a bus network 2289 02:17:09.159 --> 02:17:12.680 on that corridor, or is is there a bit more 2290 02:17:12.760 --> 02:17:13.680 advanced than where the. 2291 02:17:13.719 --> 02:17:15.840 Country is are you saying, like, give a route to 2292 02:17:16.000 --> 02:17:17.280 just one guy to run? 2293 02:17:17.920 --> 02:17:22.479 Yeah, so's they give some companies run one route the 2294 02:17:22.559 --> 02:17:24.959 bus route they run. They have exclusive rights to run 2295 02:17:25.000 --> 02:17:27.680 a bus network and one route or one corridor and 2296 02:17:27.799 --> 02:17:31.479 they move mostly people mostly between the red desk popularior 2297 02:17:31.559 --> 02:17:36.520 and it's profitable. Margins are are not huge, but it's 2298 02:17:36.520 --> 02:17:38.760 profitable enough for a private player to take that route. 2299 02:17:39.120 --> 02:17:40.319 So I'm asking if. 2300 02:17:41.479 --> 02:17:46.760 If ces similar opportunities in the Nigeria, every highly dense roots, 2301 02:17:46.799 --> 02:17:49.639 if the government does build out the corridor and maybe 2302 02:17:50.840 --> 02:17:53.760 or with the existing infrastructure, now, are there any opportunity 2303 02:17:53.760 --> 02:17:55.719 is there is similar opportunity on the ground. 2304 02:17:55.799 --> 02:18:04.040 Now is this for the for the buses, is this 2305 02:18:04.239 --> 02:18:07.120 for event transport or inter city. 2306 02:18:08.959 --> 02:18:10.399 And uh, let's say both. 2307 02:18:10.959 --> 02:18:15.440 That's a city that any would you would you believe 2308 02:18:15.559 --> 02:18:18.760 there will be an opportunities similar opportunity where an exclusive 2309 02:18:18.879 --> 02:18:20.040 route or private player. 2310 02:18:21.360 --> 02:18:23.879 Exists or that structure would work. 2311 02:18:25.120 --> 02:18:29.360 I don't like any private though, but go ahead, Yeah, so. 2312 02:18:30.399 --> 02:18:32.799 That there there are opportunities for that. 2313 02:18:33.079 --> 02:18:33.520 But the. 2314 02:18:36.719 --> 02:18:43.879 The the points of the puntal failure in that structure 2315 02:18:44.120 --> 02:18:45.799 is how will the. 2316 02:18:47.559 --> 02:18:57.600 Public body manages manages that that agreement. So if the 2317 02:18:57.719 --> 02:19:04.440 public body has uh h yeah, they can. 2318 02:19:04.760 --> 02:19:08.360 They can issue one corridor for a private or a 2319 02:19:08.479 --> 02:19:14.920 private a private transport company to run that to run 2320 02:19:15.040 --> 02:19:21.840 that particular corridor. But if the agreement is not handled properly, 2321 02:19:22.000 --> 02:19:24.479 then it's going to generate a lot of issues because 2322 02:19:25.040 --> 02:19:32.840 for example, if the privates AH the private operator does 2323 02:19:32.879 --> 02:19:38.840 not have enough funds two runs out of funds to 2324 02:19:39.959 --> 02:19:43.479 operate the route, what should be what should happen to 2325 02:19:43.680 --> 02:19:44.239 that route? 2326 02:19:44.680 --> 02:19:45.239 Should the. 2327 02:19:47.520 --> 02:19:50.079 Nobody is going to travel that route within because the 2328 02:19:50.159 --> 02:19:52.159 private partner doesn't have the money to run it. 2329 02:19:52.440 --> 02:19:55.600 And then what happens in those situations. 2330 02:19:56.280 --> 02:19:57.079 So they're all. 2331 02:19:58.799 --> 02:20:02.239 It's it's doable, but I will not trust the current 2332 02:20:02.440 --> 02:20:05.799 situation of the Nigerian public. 2333 02:20:07.440 --> 02:20:09.920 Public bodies to be able to execute that right. 2334 02:20:10.000 --> 02:20:12.719 It's going to the way we have we are right 2335 02:20:12.799 --> 02:20:17.079 now is going to set us up for a big 2336 02:20:17.159 --> 02:20:17.799 time disaster. 2337 02:20:18.559 --> 02:20:21.239 And again it has to just be a symbiotic relationship. 2338 02:20:21.319 --> 02:20:24.120 I know, ABC Autos came up with a boss that 2339 02:20:24.239 --> 02:20:27.719 had air conditioning, you could have had in flight entertainment 2340 02:20:27.840 --> 02:20:31.239 and meals, but their were Nigerian roads. I mean, this 2341 02:20:31.360 --> 02:20:34.040 company was listed, it's a listed as a PLC. You 2342 02:20:34.120 --> 02:20:36.719 could buy into that transport sector. The point of making 2343 02:20:36.719 --> 02:20:40.079 it was a quote unquote first class company one Nigerian roads. 2344 02:20:40.639 --> 02:20:43.920 Eventually the roads ruined, the buses, the ages stopped working, 2345 02:20:44.680 --> 02:20:46.680 and when you go to the park, it's you know 2346 02:20:48.479 --> 02:20:51.639 it two have to go together. If those roads were fantastic, 2347 02:20:51.799 --> 02:20:54.239 you would have had to talk about the greyhound today 2348 02:20:54.360 --> 02:20:57.239 that you have this company ABC doing legals to be 2349 02:20:57.239 --> 02:21:00.719 a degree with a cognition bosses. But the roads all 2350 02:21:00.760 --> 02:21:03.079 went bad. You know, the last time I went on 2351 02:21:03.159 --> 02:21:05.799 a night trip, Oh my good Jesus. You know, like 2352 02:21:05.959 --> 02:21:07.159 this is decades ago. 2353 02:21:07.760 --> 02:21:07.879 You know. 2354 02:21:08.000 --> 02:21:11.360 Literally, people are building the roads at night, villagers, you 2355 02:21:11.520 --> 02:21:13.440 pay them money that you go to the roo at night. 2356 02:21:15.000 --> 02:21:19.000 What struggle was the commerce at night? So the night 2357 02:21:19.079 --> 02:21:21.719 the town is asleep. But the entire road network has 2358 02:21:21.760 --> 02:21:24.399 got commas up and running. People are getting jobs, people 2359 02:21:24.440 --> 02:21:27.719 are getting fed. You know, there's there's v eighty happening there. 2360 02:21:28.000 --> 02:21:31.639 But there are no roads. Eventually, and you see insecurity 2361 02:21:31.799 --> 02:21:34.680 people shooting in the air because you know, so it's 2362 02:21:34.680 --> 02:21:36.920 got to go hand in hand, you know. And I 2363 02:21:37.120 --> 02:21:39.200 think that if you get this right, if you have 2364 02:21:39.360 --> 02:21:42.840 a state that is really open going night bosses can 2365 02:21:42.920 --> 02:21:46.079 even take you you work during the day, you take 2366 02:21:46.120 --> 02:21:49.479 a night boss from EMO to whatever it's. It's commas 2367 02:21:49.520 --> 02:21:51.360 has got to go hand in hand. The government has 2368 02:21:51.399 --> 02:21:54.920 to do his own and the private sector goes where 2369 02:21:55.040 --> 02:21:59.799 it sees money being deployed. The pricedice is profit motive. 2370 02:22:00.440 --> 02:22:03.040 The government has got to take the risk, take their 2371 02:22:03.079 --> 02:22:07.440 own farc as a seed fund and create the conditions 2372 02:22:07.479 --> 02:22:10.639 for the products that are coming, in effect subsidize the 2373 02:22:10.719 --> 02:22:13.520 parts to come in. If it don't tell the products 2374 02:22:13.520 --> 02:22:18.239 that'll go and do a bus service between two major cities. 2375 02:22:18.959 --> 02:22:21.600 A lot of risk there. So the risk it put 2376 02:22:21.639 --> 02:22:23.920 the roads there, put the mark, the rails, pull the 2377 02:22:23.959 --> 02:22:27.120 street lights, so can go and invest. That's my take 2378 02:22:27.159 --> 02:22:27.360 on that. 2379 02:22:28.879 --> 02:22:31.920 Yeah, no, right, but we'd to ask more question because 2380 02:22:32.079 --> 02:22:35.799 just what she said with incentivizing the private investments of 2381 02:22:35.879 --> 02:22:39.440 private capital and infrastructure and baby I can touch with this. 2382 02:22:40.079 --> 02:22:43.559 Where do you see the balance with tolling where you 2383 02:22:44.120 --> 02:22:49.159 operate private companies to build a larger, large road projects 2384 02:22:49.399 --> 02:22:52.239 with the with the opportunity to put a toll out there, 2385 02:22:52.959 --> 02:22:57.600 and balancing that versus the government doing the work of 2386 02:22:57.959 --> 02:23:02.959 leveraging their fac or leveraging some public capital to raised 2387 02:23:03.479 --> 02:23:05.559 raised on international market is. 2388 02:23:05.559 --> 02:23:07.319 A risk with totally. 2389 02:23:08.639 --> 02:23:10.879 I don't think you public infrastructure. 2390 02:23:11.280 --> 02:23:13.920 I think the people are not afraid of toning body 2391 02:23:13.959 --> 02:23:16.079 amount you're gonna toll them, which you know, if you're 2392 02:23:16.079 --> 02:23:18.399 the South Africa, you just go throops. You don't wanna stop, 2393 02:23:18.479 --> 02:23:21.520 you just go straight through. It charges you. You can't 2394 02:23:21.680 --> 02:23:25.719 toll in Nigeria if you if you don't have unique identifiers, 2395 02:23:26.239 --> 02:23:29.600 so your license plate has got to be attached to 2396 02:23:29.879 --> 02:23:33.719 you literally, so if you have a toll on legacy 2397 02:23:33.760 --> 02:23:35.719 by the next press rule and you don't stop, you 2398 02:23:35.920 --> 02:23:38.120 just scans your license plate, it charges you, which is 2399 02:23:38.200 --> 02:23:40.920 how it is done really going forward now, and you 2400 02:23:41.000 --> 02:23:43.799 are charging one one nira. Even if you charge one 2401 02:23:44.079 --> 02:23:47.719 naira one nira, nobody moses that tool, but you're gonna 2402 02:23:47.760 --> 02:23:50.600 make the same billions. I think it's this toll of 2403 02:23:50.799 --> 02:23:55.159 three hundred naira. You go from from like I phace 2404 02:23:55.280 --> 02:23:57.600 one to the tear round about you're supposed to pays 2405 02:23:57.639 --> 02:24:00.120 for three tools for instance, and you're charging turning. I've 2406 02:24:00.159 --> 02:24:02.719 got a producing this said, but I still think if 2407 02:24:02.760 --> 02:24:05.440 you charge five niner ten niner per tour and it 2408 02:24:05.600 --> 02:24:09.559 just just just charging you, everyone will pay the bee 2409 02:24:09.600 --> 02:24:12.479 hundred percent compliance and you see make the billions because 2410 02:24:12.520 --> 02:24:15.040 it's a twenty five year, thirty year project in it. 2411 02:24:15.440 --> 02:24:18.559 So why are you charging twenty dollars ty niner two 2412 02:24:18.680 --> 02:24:22.360 days because you want to pay off a four year contract. 2413 02:24:22.399 --> 02:24:24.760 All of the terms of a governor. We'll go back 2414 02:24:24.799 --> 02:24:28.000 to this political timeline again. They would have to do 2415 02:24:28.079 --> 02:24:30.799 this product within four or eighty years because the governor 2416 02:24:30.840 --> 02:24:33.280 wants to make sure he closes that loop before he 2417 02:24:33.360 --> 02:24:36.159 leaves office. So a toll that should be for twenty 2418 02:24:36.319 --> 02:24:39.879 five years, you first forward it to eighty years with 2419 02:24:40.040 --> 02:24:44.440 them means the park tool goes up to whatever. And 2420 02:24:44.520 --> 02:24:47.360 that's why we have all this expensive Really, what's wrong 2421 02:24:47.360 --> 02:24:49.840 with five nine two? If ten cars go fifteen nine? 2422 02:24:50.040 --> 02:24:50.600 How much is that? 2423 02:24:50.719 --> 02:24:50.840 You know? 2424 02:24:51.520 --> 02:24:53.520 And you're doing it every day? Cars are just passing 2425 02:24:53.559 --> 02:24:54.920 the two and every day? Why can't you do that? 2426 02:24:55.040 --> 02:24:56.879 Why want it be one thousand? 2427 02:24:58.239 --> 02:25:00.719 I don't, yeah, but I love to you take on 2428 02:25:01.079 --> 02:25:05.159 where you see the tolling at Manders current condition is 2429 02:25:05.239 --> 02:25:07.840 it is this something that has a viable option and 2430 02:25:08.120 --> 02:25:09.399 dolls put the deficit on? 2431 02:25:09.680 --> 02:25:10.719 Why it would be your problem? 2432 02:25:12.200 --> 02:25:12.399 Yeah? 2433 02:25:12.600 --> 02:25:20.399 For toll for toll toll roads, the for yes, I 2434 02:25:20.440 --> 02:25:24.440 would say they do. They do have places where they're useful. 2435 02:25:26.040 --> 02:25:27.159 For the. 2436 02:25:29.959 --> 02:25:33.360 If you look at Cana, for example, most of their 2437 02:25:34.360 --> 02:25:38.079 most of their major eye highways, if not all of 2438 02:25:38.159 --> 02:25:40.399 them are all told and. 2439 02:25:43.040 --> 02:25:48.319 But those are I can't I don't remember, like what's 2440 02:25:49.120 --> 02:25:54.559 what the toll is, but those are mostly those are 2441 02:25:54.600 --> 02:25:56.920 most peak upment run highways. 2442 02:25:57.600 --> 02:26:00.399 And if you look at another country that also has 2443 02:26:00.440 --> 02:26:04.520 a lot of toll roads, which is Japan, a lot 2444 02:26:04.600 --> 02:26:10.360 of private roads, you see the private the private roads 2445 02:26:10.719 --> 02:26:15.440 tend to culster around urban centers. They're very short, close 2446 02:26:15.559 --> 02:26:22.479 to either Tokyo or Soaka, and or they leave the 2447 02:26:22.600 --> 02:26:26.920 rest of the highway system linking those regions at a 2448 02:26:27.000 --> 02:26:29.520 long distance to the public sector. 2449 02:26:30.600 --> 02:26:35.479 And that's because you get more. 2450 02:26:37.079 --> 02:26:40.479 Turnover in the urban roads than you do on those 2451 02:26:40.680 --> 02:26:45.840 long stretch pieces of highway. So in terms of tolling, 2452 02:26:46.600 --> 02:26:50.479 the short urban routes are more loocrative for high for 2453 02:26:50.600 --> 02:26:55.120 a privating restor to operate than for example. 2454 02:26:54.760 --> 02:26:56.879 If you want to if you want to connect Legos 2455 02:26:56.959 --> 02:27:01.719 to Anija with a toll road, the tolls will likely 2456 02:27:01.840 --> 02:27:04.319 not cover the cost of operating the road. You're going 2457 02:27:04.399 --> 02:27:06.440 to be in a deficit and that's not going to be. 2458 02:27:08.120 --> 02:27:10.159 That's not going to be a lucrative endeavor for a 2459 02:27:10.239 --> 02:27:15.079 private investor to uh to go it to go into. 2460 02:27:15.639 --> 02:27:23.159 But just as the private operator after Makiyah, that is 2461 02:27:23.280 --> 02:27:24.120 where it makes. 2462 02:27:24.440 --> 02:27:27.239 That is where it's locrative because you have a lot 2463 02:27:27.280 --> 02:27:30.399 of through good and the distance is very short. 2464 02:27:31.159 --> 02:27:34.319 But yeah, like Kylo said, the tolls have to be 2465 02:27:35.040 --> 02:27:36.520 reasonable and. 2466 02:27:38.559 --> 02:27:42.479 The the roads have to be. 2467 02:27:44.200 --> 02:27:45.760 The roads have to be maintained properly. 2468 02:27:45.760 --> 02:27:48.280 And also I don't I don't remember then updating the 2469 02:27:48.520 --> 02:27:51.440 toll collection is it there? Have they moved to electric 2470 02:27:51.559 --> 02:27:54.159 electronic tolling yet or you still pay. 2471 02:27:54.440 --> 02:27:55.280 By the toll booth. 2472 02:27:55.959 --> 02:27:58.040 You have those little things you stick on your on 2473 02:27:58.159 --> 02:28:02.159 your windscreen, but that it's just a free paid the 2474 02:28:02.280 --> 02:28:04.600 way it should be certainly, you know how it's when 2475 02:28:04.639 --> 02:28:07.719 you register with the fires the fi RSS has your 2476 02:28:08.120 --> 02:28:11.000 number plate, attack that number plate to your BV and 2477 02:28:11.639 --> 02:28:13.680 so that way, once you go past, you don't have 2478 02:28:13.760 --> 02:28:16.959 to put it reached who the car is. It just 2479 02:28:17.120 --> 02:28:19.319 sends you a bill. You don't have to collect the 2480 02:28:19.360 --> 02:28:21.639 bill on the spot. You can pay monthly if you want, 2481 02:28:21.719 --> 02:28:23.360 daily if you want, but it just sends you a 2482 02:28:23.440 --> 02:28:26.319 bill as you go through, so you don't stop, and 2483 02:28:26.399 --> 02:28:29.280 then it's a freeway just you just go straight through. 2484 02:28:29.399 --> 02:28:31.360 It charges you if you want to pay at the 2485 02:28:31.399 --> 02:28:33.879 end of the day, fantastic. You go to a boot 2486 02:28:33.959 --> 02:28:36.879 and you pay. But if you did it that way, 2487 02:28:37.000 --> 02:28:38.760 it takes a bay most of the you know, make 2488 02:28:38.799 --> 02:28:41.680 it very very cheap, make it seamless. I think that's 2489 02:28:41.719 --> 02:28:42.319 the way to do it. 2490 02:28:42.840 --> 02:28:47.159 I think contributes to make it even cheaper. Yeah, the friction, you. 2491 02:28:47.159 --> 02:28:49.239 Don't need people to collect it. You don't need people 2492 02:28:49.280 --> 02:28:51.600 to collect the bills. You don't need to hire people. 2493 02:28:51.920 --> 02:28:54.680 If you don't pay the thing, it catches you. You know, 2494 02:28:55.040 --> 02:28:56.680 they can track you back to where you were. They 2495 02:28:56.719 --> 02:28:58.280 have your BV and they have your number paid to 2496 02:28:58.319 --> 02:29:00.440 have your address. They give you a c T bill 2497 02:29:00.559 --> 02:29:02.719 you have to pay. But that's those way you have 2498 02:29:02.799 --> 02:29:04.000 to look at some guys. 2499 02:29:04.040 --> 02:29:07.159 I's my father question. 2500 02:29:07.680 --> 02:29:09.600 Generally, I don't know if you if you do have 2501 02:29:09.680 --> 02:29:13.920 this information, how the differenceive performance between PPP projects and 2502 02:29:14.040 --> 02:29:16.600 strictly public projects in Nigeria. 2503 02:29:16.760 --> 02:29:19.520 Is there any trends you observe. 2504 02:29:19.319 --> 02:29:22.559 And how they how they perform long term and could 2505 02:29:22.600 --> 02:29:25.680 you maybe give us a sense versus what happens on 2506 02:29:25.840 --> 02:29:27.120 the international stage. 2507 02:29:26.799 --> 02:29:31.479 Whether big projects have a place or they have. 2508 02:29:33.040 --> 02:29:36.639 Seen better performance in certain contexts, or it just depends 2509 02:29:36.719 --> 02:29:38.559 on just the country itself. 2510 02:29:40.000 --> 02:29:44.399 There for for PPP projects, just as just as the 2511 02:29:44.799 --> 02:29:50.440 situation with U public operator. 2512 02:29:52.639 --> 02:29:59.799 Giving out a transport route for single transport private transl 2513 02:30:00.040 --> 02:30:01.239 bred to operate. 2514 02:30:02.639 --> 02:30:02.719 The. 2515 02:30:07.399 --> 02:30:14.600 The performance or the success of that PPP depends heavily. 2516 02:30:14.639 --> 02:30:17.559 On the public partner and how the public partner executes. 2517 02:30:18.799 --> 02:30:24.479 In Nigeria, the PPP infrastructure projects, they have a bad 2518 02:30:24.680 --> 02:30:25.319 track record. 2519 02:30:25.760 --> 02:30:30.639 They have if they either deliver poor quality. 2520 02:30:30.520 --> 02:30:35.680 They're not delivered on time, they're overpriced, and the only 2521 02:30:35.959 --> 02:30:41.719 if you look at all our public transport infrastructure, most 2522 02:30:41.799 --> 02:30:44.520 of it is government funded, is public funded. 2523 02:30:45.879 --> 02:30:48.159 PPP has not really delivered. 2524 02:30:47.799 --> 02:30:57.680 Any usable transport infrastructure in Niger And unfortunately, the there's 2525 02:30:57.799 --> 02:31:02.600 this mindset that people is the way and there is 2526 02:31:02.719 --> 02:31:08.959 this PPP hysteria going on in Nigeria where everything is PPP, PPP, 2527 02:31:09.120 --> 02:31:13.280 the PPP that and when you look at the projects 2528 02:31:13.280 --> 02:31:17.799 that have been that have gone through that PPP route, 2529 02:31:18.520 --> 02:31:24.239 and yeah, they really haven't delivered in Nigeria. So for 2530 02:31:25.000 --> 02:31:28.319 because like it, it depends on the public partner and 2531 02:31:28.399 --> 02:31:34.239 how the public partner handles that project. In Nigeria, publicly 2532 02:31:34.399 --> 02:31:38.239 funded infrastructure, it's the only way that we have actually 2533 02:31:38.319 --> 02:31:42.799 gotten infrastructure. Yes it's bad, Yes it's we have issues 2534 02:31:42.879 --> 02:31:45.959 with it, but yeah, the PPP hasn't really. 2535 02:31:45.840 --> 02:31:46.760 Done much for us. 2536 02:31:48.479 --> 02:31:54.000 Okay, And that's the trend. Similar abroad is that well, 2537 02:31:54.079 --> 02:31:58.360 it depends on the region. So for different for different countries, 2538 02:32:00.200 --> 02:32:05.719 depends on how the public partner executes the project. 2539 02:32:06.079 --> 02:32:08.760 Yes, it works well in places like. 2540 02:32:11.639 --> 02:32:15.559 For example, if I use the Nordic the Nordic countries. 2541 02:32:15.159 --> 02:32:18.559 Where they have some form of. 2542 02:32:21.120 --> 02:32:26.559 TPP arrangements for infrastructure projects. But the way it is 2543 02:32:26.760 --> 02:32:32.440 executed and handled the risk, I'll think there's one thing. 2544 02:32:32.719 --> 02:32:33.520 The risk is. 2545 02:32:33.600 --> 02:32:34.959 Held in the public sector. 2546 02:32:35.040 --> 02:32:36.959 The public sector assumes. 2547 02:32:36.520 --> 02:32:40.879 The risk of the project and they tend to work 2548 02:32:41.040 --> 02:32:44.319 better than for example, the UK, which tends to ufload 2549 02:32:44.360 --> 02:32:48.239 the risk onto the private private partner, which leads to 2550 02:32:48.959 --> 02:32:52.719 cost explosions and all the other craziness. And the same 2551 02:32:52.760 --> 02:32:55.319 thing with Nigeria and the Nigerian PPP projects. They tend 2552 02:32:55.360 --> 02:32:57.920 to offload the risk on the private partner and then 2553 02:32:58.360 --> 02:32:59.120 we have a whole. 2554 02:32:58.920 --> 02:33:04.000 Bunch of the issues. So in running PPP is the 2555 02:33:06.159 --> 02:33:10.319 public partner has to be has to assume the. 2556 02:33:10.440 --> 02:33:13.680 Risk of the project and then it has to be 2557 02:33:13.920 --> 02:33:16.200 executed properly. 2558 02:33:17.200 --> 02:33:19.840 Right now we right now. 2559 02:33:21.319 --> 02:33:24.920 The way A lot of the PPPs that executed in 2560 02:33:25.040 --> 02:33:29.000 Nigeria with it push all the risks onto the private partner. 2561 02:33:30.079 --> 02:33:31.840 Yeah, that doesn't really give us anything. 2562 02:33:32.559 --> 02:33:36.319 And if he only needs to higher cost projects, low 2563 02:33:36.440 --> 02:33:40.000 quality projects, and we don't. 2564 02:33:39.799 --> 02:33:42.280 Get it, doney, if you guys might, I'll just get 2565 02:33:42.360 --> 02:33:45.000 af you guys, I've been waiting to put a word 2566 02:33:45.040 --> 02:33:49.520 in there. I think to what the closest of the conversation. Now, 2567 02:33:50.479 --> 02:33:53.959 let me get IDEODJ. I've got IODG. Then we'll get OX. 2568 02:33:54.079 --> 02:33:56.879 They won't get ABO, so iodg OX, they don't get 2569 02:33:56.959 --> 02:34:02.399 ABO either. You've got the floor, go ahead, Yeah, thank 2570 02:34:02.479 --> 02:34:03.040 you very much. 2571 02:34:03.680 --> 02:34:08.040 Good evening in my time zone, good morning, good afternoon, 2572 02:34:08.120 --> 02:34:09.680 depending on where you're listening from. 2573 02:34:10.920 --> 02:34:14.680 I hope you can hear me, yes, sir, I can hear. 2574 02:34:16.440 --> 02:34:21.399 Okay, good. I came here to learn and I've learned 2575 02:34:21.440 --> 02:34:25.600 a lot. I also want to appreciate the host for 2576 02:34:25.799 --> 02:34:28.680 bringing up this space. It's quite enlightening. 2577 02:34:29.479 --> 02:34:29.760 Okay. 2578 02:34:29.879 --> 02:34:32.280 I just want to drop a few points. One of 2579 02:34:32.360 --> 02:34:36.760 which is I'll touch on the issue of toling. I 2580 02:34:36.799 --> 02:34:40.200 will also touch on the issue of what mode of 2581 02:34:40.319 --> 02:34:45.239 transportation should best be chosen for the economic development if 2582 02:34:45.319 --> 02:34:50.440 I do a way to adopt touch approach to our 2583 02:34:50.520 --> 02:34:51.559 economic development. 2584 02:34:52.399 --> 02:34:54.040 Like most of the speakers. 2585 02:34:53.680 --> 02:34:58.159 Before, I've said, I also would like to agree that 2586 02:34:59.239 --> 02:35:00.639 rather than trying to. 2587 02:35:02.159 --> 02:35:05.760 Put the rail system in place, I think. 2588 02:35:05.959 --> 02:35:09.479 The fonts should be more focused on we are debating 2589 02:35:09.559 --> 02:35:16.280 transportation the road projects, making the roads more durable, more 2590 02:35:16.440 --> 02:35:21.000 usable for people, especially in the rural areas. Where As 2591 02:35:21.040 --> 02:35:24.920 a matter of fact, the transportation system actually solved a 2592 02:35:24.959 --> 02:35:25.680 lot of problems. 2593 02:35:26.159 --> 02:35:30.040 For example, the major reason why prices. 2594 02:35:29.760 --> 02:35:31.799 Of food items will go up is the fact that, 2595 02:35:33.280 --> 02:35:36.559 apart from the insecurity in the country, the fact that 2596 02:35:37.239 --> 02:35:40.000 most of the produce that are in rural areas find 2597 02:35:40.959 --> 02:35:44.799 it's difficult to get to urban centers where they can 2598 02:35:44.959 --> 02:35:53.200 easily be distributed nationwide, and that likely tells on the 2599 02:35:53.360 --> 02:35:57.440 cost of items as well as distributional liability and all. 2600 02:35:57.360 --> 02:35:57.879 Of those things. 2601 02:35:58.440 --> 02:36:02.000 So if the roads system can actually be made to 2602 02:36:02.159 --> 02:36:06.000 function effectively, I think that would also put all of 2603 02:36:06.040 --> 02:36:10.120 that in check. And then also it definitely will generate 2604 02:36:10.479 --> 02:36:14.440 more jobs for the Grand people. I heard somebody say 2605 02:36:14.520 --> 02:36:20.600 that the intolerance system is it is it viable, like 2606 02:36:21.520 --> 02:36:24.000 considering the current. 2607 02:36:23.760 --> 02:36:25.159 Situation of GM people. 2608 02:36:25.559 --> 02:36:28.639 But I believe that with good road network there. 2609 02:36:28.600 --> 02:36:32.000 Will be more economic activities on the side of the people. 2610 02:36:32.920 --> 02:36:34.959 A lot of people will be able to get to 2611 02:36:35.959 --> 02:36:38.959 their places of business, and then of course more businesses 2612 02:36:39.040 --> 02:36:42.559 will come up because like demand. Somebody said earlier that 2613 02:36:42.760 --> 02:36:44.959 he took a night trip and he saw that there 2614 02:36:45.040 --> 02:36:48.360 was a lot of commerce going on at night. If 2615 02:36:48.399 --> 02:36:50.600 you are the kind of if you are the person 2616 02:36:50.680 --> 02:36:54.959 that frequents legos, be me or a road, you will 2617 02:36:54.959 --> 02:36:58.440 see that that road barely slips because both day and 2618 02:36:58.680 --> 02:37:01.479 night people are on the road. You see people selling bread, 2619 02:37:01.920 --> 02:37:03.959 you get to field in stations, you see people still 2620 02:37:04.040 --> 02:37:06.399 cooking food and all those things. And these are the 2621 02:37:06.479 --> 02:37:10.639 things that can also if we're talking about toling, if 2622 02:37:10.760 --> 02:37:16.040 people is the standard of living can improve, toling wouldn't 2623 02:37:16.040 --> 02:37:19.399 be a problem because like again, like somebody had suggested, 2624 02:37:19.760 --> 02:37:23.360 it doesn't have to be it doesn't have to be overblooted. 2625 02:37:23.559 --> 02:37:26.600 Let's it be something affordable, something that can easily be 2626 02:37:26.760 --> 02:37:30.520 charged from the person's account, so you don't even have 2627 02:37:31.280 --> 02:37:34.280 we don't have to form long queues at the toll 2628 02:37:34.399 --> 02:37:38.000 gates to make payments. We just drive through and everything 2629 02:37:38.079 --> 02:37:43.799 is sorted. So yes, the road transport system. And then 2630 02:37:45.159 --> 02:37:51.520 talking about private PvP, that's the public private partnership. Like 2631 02:37:51.680 --> 02:37:56.120 somebody had said earlier, Oftentimes the public sector pushes the 2632 02:37:57.200 --> 02:37:59.719 risks to the private sector, and that in itself is 2633 02:38:00.040 --> 02:38:02.760 one majority than why the private sector. 2634 02:38:02.479 --> 02:38:03.879 Would push back. 2635 02:38:04.840 --> 02:38:07.920 It's like an example of a busy transport, not only 2636 02:38:08.000 --> 02:38:10.319 a busy transfer. There was the time that g u 2637 02:38:10.959 --> 02:38:14.000 Ok and Songs was doing most of the inst runs 2638 02:38:14.040 --> 02:38:17.840 and we used to feel comfortable then traveling at night 2639 02:38:18.040 --> 02:38:21.479 because the security system in the country. 2640 02:38:21.319 --> 02:38:22.200 Wasn't as bad as this. 2641 02:38:22.319 --> 02:38:27.799 But even at that the roads were discouraging. So eventually 2642 02:38:27.840 --> 02:38:31.440 it all boils down to if if we're discussing transportation 2643 02:38:31.639 --> 02:38:35.879 system with reverse to economic development, it all comes back 2644 02:38:35.959 --> 02:38:41.360 to the road network. Basically, the road network, in my 2645 02:38:41.440 --> 02:38:42.280 own opinion. 2646 02:38:42.079 --> 02:38:44.319 Sols a lot of those problems. 2647 02:38:45.120 --> 02:38:47.440 I would yield the microt this one. I just thank 2648 02:38:47.520 --> 02:38:49.920 you for everything that's has been said. 2649 02:38:49.760 --> 02:38:52.479 So for you, that's a good recap. I appreciate that. 2650 02:38:52.959 --> 02:38:56.079 Good recap on that. Let's get I think it was uber. 2651 02:38:56.280 --> 02:38:58.280 Then we get Oxley, who I know who's going to 2652 02:38:58.600 --> 02:39:05.120 go first? Oxley, Yes, yeah ahead. 2653 02:39:07.559 --> 02:39:10.040 Thank you for giving the mind. 2654 02:39:10.079 --> 02:39:13.360 I'll just I would just ask one question and make 2655 02:39:13.520 --> 02:39:18.639 one one comment. So my comment is about the the 2656 02:39:18.799 --> 02:39:24.159 term system a count of places where this is we 2657 02:39:24.239 --> 02:39:28.040 are trumps as they use. I don't think anything. I 2658 02:39:28.079 --> 02:39:30.559 don't think club tub tumb has been. 2659 02:39:30.520 --> 02:39:33.360 Plants anywhere around Niger in terms of the. 2660 02:39:36.159 --> 02:39:39.799 Designs you know of our system, so as I don't 2661 02:39:39.840 --> 02:39:43.600 know how some can be retrofitted into our ligery and 2662 02:39:43.719 --> 02:39:46.399 into Nigeria roads because I don't. I don't think it's 2663 02:39:46.520 --> 02:39:48.719 anywhere in the plan and I tend to be corrected. 2664 02:39:49.200 --> 02:39:52.120 And also the places we have city in Europe, you know, 2665 02:39:52.239 --> 02:39:53.280 they're easy to update. 2666 02:39:53.719 --> 02:39:55.840 You know, they are very you know they're easy. 2667 02:39:56.360 --> 02:39:59.879 Some of their rules at some points go across the roots. 2668 02:39:59.760 --> 02:40:01.639 Wrong on grass. 2669 02:40:01.959 --> 02:40:04.600 You know they are they are, they are quite very 2670 02:40:04.760 --> 02:40:07.120 easy over the most. I don't think that mydea has 2671 02:40:08.159 --> 02:40:11.399 come in our system, Maru, and I don't think it 2672 02:40:11.559 --> 02:40:13.079 gos to to fill that. 2673 02:40:13.159 --> 02:40:13.840 Into our system. 2674 02:40:13.879 --> 02:40:15.680 We have to start from breaking all our roads and 2675 02:40:15.680 --> 02:40:16.040 all of that. 2676 02:40:16.200 --> 02:40:17.120 So that's one side. 2677 02:40:17.559 --> 02:40:19.440 Secondly, I had mostly. 2678 02:40:19.280 --> 02:40:22.559 Said around on the chappoorts. 2679 02:40:22.680 --> 02:40:26.280 I just wanted to ask the question, are you in 2680 02:40:26.399 --> 02:40:29.000 any way just saying that on acts. 2681 02:40:28.440 --> 02:40:32.159 Not by me, you know, because I'm. 2682 02:40:31.799 --> 02:40:34.879 Not sure I have you. I but that there's a 2683 02:40:35.000 --> 02:40:37.360 pot there and it's not it doesn't get love volume. 2684 02:40:37.639 --> 02:40:39.959 So there's something wrong, right, there's something wrong with what 2685 02:40:40.120 --> 02:40:40.959 we have right now. 2686 02:40:43.319 --> 02:40:48.079 By life. I'm not sure you've got that because at. 2687 02:40:48.040 --> 02:40:50.639 That point your audio, your audio is not that good, sir. 2688 02:40:50.920 --> 02:40:59.280 I don't you want to fix that audio? Confined oskally, 2689 02:40:59.280 --> 02:41:01.559 I want to can you fix the audio? There's something 2690 02:41:01.600 --> 02:41:02.159 of the audio? 2691 02:41:07.479 --> 02:41:07.760 Okay? 2692 02:41:08.719 --> 02:41:09.399 Is it better now? 2693 02:41:09.600 --> 02:41:09.719 Yes? 2694 02:41:09.760 --> 02:41:09.920 Sir? 2695 02:41:12.079 --> 02:41:12.760 Is it better now? 2696 02:41:13.079 --> 02:41:13.239 Yes? 2697 02:41:16.159 --> 02:41:18.479 Okay, So what I don't know whether you got my question? 2698 02:41:18.600 --> 02:41:20.520 I said, are you suggesting are you in any way 2699 02:41:20.559 --> 02:41:22.520 suggesting that on your port was. 2700 02:41:22.559 --> 02:41:23.440 Not is not viable? 2701 02:41:23.680 --> 02:41:26.159 Yeah, I'm saying that the port is there, but there's 2702 02:41:26.200 --> 02:41:28.639 no volume going to that port. So I'm just looking 2703 02:41:28.680 --> 02:41:34.680 at the status today. It's not functional as expected, so 2704 02:41:34.799 --> 02:41:36.280 there's something going on there. 2705 02:41:38.159 --> 02:41:41.719 I'm thinking that, you know, in the bridgehead where that 2706 02:41:41.840 --> 02:41:45.559 port is, there's so many businesses and there are people 2707 02:41:45.559 --> 02:41:48.000 who railed their containers on the road from Legos No No, 2708 02:41:48.120 --> 02:41:49.280 but that's not the question asking. 2709 02:41:49.399 --> 02:41:51.760 That's not the question. The question is is the port functional? 2710 02:41:51.959 --> 02:41:54.719 The port is not. It's not active. That's the point 2711 02:41:54.799 --> 02:41:55.559 what I'm saying. 2712 02:41:55.639 --> 02:41:58.280 No, you are saying it's not functional because it's not viable. 2713 02:41:58.559 --> 02:42:02.120 No, I'm saying it's not valuable because it's not. It's functional, 2714 02:42:02.159 --> 02:42:04.719 but it's not viable. The port is there, but it's 2715 02:42:04.760 --> 02:42:08.239 not being used. That's what I'm saying. We know, we 2716 02:42:08.680 --> 02:42:11.399 know it and need the port. We know the market 2717 02:42:11.559 --> 02:42:13.840 is there, we know there's transhipment, we know all that. 2718 02:42:14.079 --> 02:42:16.680 But I'm saying that particular federal port in land port 2719 02:42:16.879 --> 02:42:19.520 nature right now, it doesn't get a lot of. 2720 02:42:19.559 --> 02:42:28.440 Volume because I'm thinking there is the night on it 2721 02:42:28.840 --> 02:42:30.959 is not right, so certain ships will not be able 2722 02:42:31.000 --> 02:42:33.719 to come there. And also there is no real there's 2723 02:42:33.760 --> 02:42:36.920 no reallying that lands that terminates at that point. 2724 02:42:37.040 --> 02:42:38.840 I don't think there is any I. 2725 02:42:38.920 --> 02:42:41.079 Hear you, I hear you. You're right. I'm just saying 2726 02:42:41.120 --> 02:42:43.799 that in the end, it's got to be a badge 2727 02:42:43.920 --> 02:42:46.879 can get there, right, and I know some can get 2728 02:42:47.120 --> 02:42:49.440 one of one or two badges go there. The point 2729 02:42:49.520 --> 02:42:51.319 I make is that you would think that that port 2730 02:42:51.360 --> 02:42:54.200 will have more volume to day than it does. That's 2731 02:42:54.559 --> 02:42:55.399 just what I'm saying. 2732 02:42:55.520 --> 02:42:58.600 And the fact I think it's the federal government that 2733 02:42:58.719 --> 02:43:00.959 kept it in that situation there. How I don't see 2734 02:43:01.000 --> 02:43:03.120 any need to make it. They don't see any need 2735 02:43:03.239 --> 02:43:06.879 to get it to work, you know. And and I 2736 02:43:07.040 --> 02:43:08.799 and he had to ask so many reasons, you know. 2737 02:43:09.120 --> 02:43:12.920 I think much of the reason is even political, you know. 2738 02:43:13.639 --> 02:43:17.680 But my word is why is the state government not 2739 02:43:17.799 --> 02:43:18.799 not doing anything about it? 2740 02:43:19.760 --> 02:43:23.360 That's my world, okay, I mean, the one thing that 2741 02:43:23.479 --> 02:43:26.000 has politics. It's difficult to actually get to what's going on. 2742 02:43:26.120 --> 02:43:28.920 But I just like again, I'll say this right, the 2743 02:43:29.159 --> 02:43:31.559 private sector has got to show the way if that 2744 02:43:31.719 --> 02:43:35.120 federal one is not working. Anambra with Delta, with the 2745 02:43:35.680 --> 02:43:39.479 state down here, worry can do something on their own. 2746 02:43:39.639 --> 02:43:41.760 I don't know how far they have, what part they have, 2747 02:43:42.920 --> 02:43:45.399 but they can do something. Delta is now a pc AB. 2748 02:43:47.360 --> 02:43:50.319 Anambra is very very close to the president. They go 2749 02:43:50.440 --> 02:43:53.040 see him and they say, there's something election coming up. 2750 02:43:53.399 --> 02:43:54.840 This is what we need. We need to make the 2751 02:43:54.879 --> 02:43:58.959 sports functional. It helps their state, it helps the president, 2752 02:43:59.479 --> 02:44:03.520 it helps Nigeria. I'm just picking plainly here. So I 2753 02:44:03.559 --> 02:44:05.840 don't see why, you know, it would wouldn't work a 2754 02:44:05.959 --> 02:44:09.399 Delta ports. Our nature port helps the economy of Delta 2755 02:44:09.680 --> 02:44:14.000 and Ambra and Worry. So it's a win win across 2756 02:44:14.079 --> 02:44:16.239 the board that they can do if they wanted to 2757 02:44:16.319 --> 02:44:21.440 do it. So I'm just saying that I agree with you, 2758 02:44:22.440 --> 02:44:28.920 all right, But you have any question for autonomy, Okay, 2759 02:44:29.079 --> 02:44:32.440 let's get then that's gonna be about about last. Boy, 2760 02:44:32.559 --> 02:44:34.719 you've got the floor, then we move to that. Three 2761 02:44:34.760 --> 02:44:39.719 folks go ahead, Okay, thank you very much. Yes, if 2762 02:44:39.760 --> 02:44:41.520 it's to speak up, I'll appreciate it, but I can 2763 02:44:41.639 --> 02:44:41.840 hear you. 2764 02:44:41.959 --> 02:44:48.079 Yeah, okay, So I would love to ask for a 2765 02:44:48.120 --> 02:44:53.280 couple of questions earlier. Earlier when you're speaking Namy, you made. 2766 02:44:53.159 --> 02:44:58.760 Measure of what I was in course of like once 2767 02:44:58.799 --> 02:45:01.399 you get your looks, there's not happening in the western direction. 2768 02:45:01.959 --> 02:45:04.840 There's only the western direction that we can use. That's 2769 02:45:04.879 --> 02:45:05.440 the gain way. 2770 02:45:07.079 --> 02:45:11.639 I really have high holes for from the inland waterways 2771 02:45:11.680 --> 02:45:14.760 from India. I was kind of like I was with 2772 02:45:14.920 --> 02:45:18.200 Carlo when you when you was talking about isn't the 2773 02:45:18.239 --> 02:45:19.639 water I wished to get to as far as. 2774 02:45:19.639 --> 02:45:23.760 Soccer tour in the south, So it's to be surprised, 2775 02:45:23.760 --> 02:45:25.959 and I would like to understand why you say is 2776 02:45:25.959 --> 02:45:28.760 it because of dams the two dams on the Niger 2777 02:45:29.399 --> 02:45:31.639 after locals? And if there is the case, is the. 2778 02:45:31.639 --> 02:45:37.920 Aneral other way to like probably translad bat chase from 2779 02:45:37.959 --> 02:45:38.479 one end. 2780 02:45:38.479 --> 02:45:38.879 To the other. 2781 02:45:39.319 --> 02:45:40.079 That's the course. 2782 02:45:41.159 --> 02:45:44.120 And then what would you say is the impication of 2783 02:45:44.200 --> 02:45:45.959 this coast through highway on. 2784 02:45:46.040 --> 02:45:47.319 Our inland waterways? 2785 02:45:47.440 --> 02:45:47.600 Right? 2786 02:45:48.000 --> 02:45:53.799 Because it isn't a lot duding the highway from Legos 2787 02:45:54.159 --> 02:46:01.360 across unguesslimeters of swamp plant to Colabor. Were you not 2788 02:46:02.120 --> 02:46:05.200 connected with any major city other than labors protacles and 2789 02:46:05.399 --> 02:46:07.600 I think colabor or maybe amotion. 2790 02:46:09.440 --> 02:46:12.280 Well, if they do do that, there'll be tons of bridges. 2791 02:46:12.520 --> 02:46:14.520 Will't those bages be courting over or inland? 2792 02:46:14.600 --> 02:46:17.159 What we would be seen because. 2793 02:46:17.479 --> 02:46:20.200 Just speaking about what the inland would. 2794 02:46:19.760 --> 02:46:26.040 Made mentioned badging containers from Lacky in London to an 2795 02:46:26.200 --> 02:46:28.840 entire don't you think that's a problem? 2796 02:46:29.000 --> 02:46:31.000 And if there would be a problem, how do we. 2797 02:46:32.520 --> 02:46:34.239 Solve that problem? Then? 2798 02:46:34.399 --> 02:46:37.319 Lastly, I knew you were not just into transportation. We 2799 02:46:37.360 --> 02:46:42.040 are also into energing. How do you think solving a 2800 02:46:42.479 --> 02:46:42.799 or how. 2801 02:46:42.719 --> 02:46:44.959 Bids do you think we can use our solving our 2802 02:46:45.040 --> 02:46:46.479 transportation problems in. 2803 02:46:46.559 --> 02:46:51.399 Nigeria to in it fit improve our energy because I. 2804 02:46:51.399 --> 02:46:54.680 Knew that for Nager got to industrialize. Basically, it is 2805 02:46:54.760 --> 02:46:56.559 my opinion. I don't think I'm sitting in the part, 2806 02:46:56.840 --> 02:46:58.479 but we need to solve the energy. 2807 02:46:58.239 --> 02:47:02.120 Problem, the transportation them and maybe still I think still 2808 02:47:02.319 --> 02:47:04.559 thoughting that I am. 2809 02:47:04.799 --> 02:47:07.760 Pretty much aware that will help the country industrialized. 2810 02:47:07.799 --> 02:47:10.040 So how do you take the carrier of transportation issues 2811 02:47:10.280 --> 02:47:12.000 save me sover transportation problem? 2812 02:47:12.040 --> 02:47:15.520 How do you think that can transculate to giving those 2813 02:47:15.520 --> 02:47:18.719 great times this time around? I'm talking about this is 2814 02:47:18.799 --> 02:47:20.559 like pipelines and whatnot. 2815 02:47:20.680 --> 02:47:21.399 Thank you very much. 2816 02:47:23.319 --> 02:47:24.840 Did you get all that you mean. 2817 02:47:28.879 --> 02:47:29.200 To me? 2818 02:47:29.239 --> 02:47:30.120 Did you did you get all that? 2819 02:47:32.159 --> 02:47:32.360 Yeah? 2820 02:47:32.399 --> 02:47:32.680 I did? 2821 02:47:33.120 --> 02:47:40.760 That was about last right, yes, okay, yeah, thanks yeah, 2822 02:47:40.799 --> 02:47:41.879 thanks for those questions. 2823 02:47:42.319 --> 02:47:43.360 Yeah. For the first one. 2824 02:47:43.440 --> 02:47:50.079 Regarding of the waterways, the geography of the rivers north 2825 02:47:50.239 --> 02:47:54.120 of local Ja, you have rapids, so. 2826 02:47:54.200 --> 02:47:54.479 You have. 2827 02:47:56.000 --> 02:47:57.959 You have steep drop offs. 2828 02:47:58.799 --> 02:48:00.719 So if you're going to. 2829 02:48:04.040 --> 02:48:08.920 So the river can't you can't navigate via a water 2830 02:48:09.000 --> 02:48:16.000 borne vessel without using lifts or elevator. 2831 02:48:16.000 --> 02:48:17.239 You're going to need to build. 2832 02:48:21.959 --> 02:48:26.520 You're going to need to build like barge elevators to 2833 02:48:26.719 --> 02:48:30.159 take the water take the vessels to the higher level 2834 02:48:31.000 --> 02:48:36.000 and you have lots of dinner rapid succession. So in 2835 02:48:36.280 --> 02:48:43.040 that scenario, the slow down on the cost, the cost 2836 02:48:43.079 --> 02:48:45.639 of building those elevators and the slow. 2837 02:48:45.479 --> 02:48:50.600 Down in the movement of goods, it's not really worth 2838 02:48:50.920 --> 02:48:57.559 the effort. You'll be better off if you build a parallel. 2839 02:48:57.840 --> 02:49:02.440 Railway along the along the river than to transport good 2840 02:49:02.719 --> 02:49:05.600 you reach, you hit a rapid, then you have to elevate, 2841 02:49:05.680 --> 02:49:08.719 you have to get an elevator, hit another rapid, get 2842 02:49:08.879 --> 02:49:09.559 an elevator. 2843 02:49:10.360 --> 02:49:15.079 And so it's just the geography, it just makes it unviable. 2844 02:49:15.600 --> 02:49:24.440 It's to transport via water through the northern reaches of 2845 02:49:24.520 --> 02:49:25.239 the Niger River. 2846 02:49:27.000 --> 02:49:32.360 In terms of the other question of the coastal way, 2847 02:49:33.079 --> 02:49:37.559 the coastal legals Calaba Coastal Highway, and how that interferes, 2848 02:49:37.719 --> 02:49:39.360 how the bridges will interfere with. 2849 02:49:40.840 --> 02:49:46.399 Inland waterway traffic. As long as the bridges are built 2850 02:49:46.520 --> 02:49:50.120 with enough clearance, then it's not an issue. 2851 02:49:50.559 --> 02:49:56.600 But if they don't take clearance for vessels into consideration, 2852 02:49:57.280 --> 02:49:58.760 that is when it becomes an issue. 2853 02:49:59.239 --> 02:50:00.120 So you have of. 2854 02:50:03.280 --> 02:50:05.760 You have I don't think we have a major No, 2855 02:50:05.879 --> 02:50:06.200 we don't. 2856 02:50:06.280 --> 02:50:07.479 We don't have a major. 2857 02:50:08.959 --> 02:50:15.719 Transport water transport corridor with a bridge with a bridge crossing. 2858 02:50:16.079 --> 02:50:19.639 But in other countries, for example, Mozambique. 2859 02:50:19.159 --> 02:50:20.719 Just built a. 2860 02:50:22.479 --> 02:50:28.120 Bridge across the waterway and it's built. 2861 02:50:28.760 --> 02:50:32.000 It's I think it is right now, the longest suspension 2862 02:50:32.120 --> 02:50:33.200 bridge in Africa. 2863 02:50:34.280 --> 02:50:37.959 And in the bridge they cost all because the bridge 2864 02:50:38.000 --> 02:50:40.840 has to be higher. So the bridge has a sixteen 2865 02:50:40.879 --> 02:50:42.040 meter or a sixty five. 2866 02:50:42.200 --> 02:50:44.639 Water clearance, so even the. 2867 02:50:46.479 --> 02:50:54.559 Tallest ships can go underneath the bridge. For for those 2868 02:50:55.040 --> 02:51:00.120 for barges, barges don't require that much height. Barges and 2869 02:51:01.239 --> 02:51:04.200 barkers can go on the bridges with eleven to fifteen 2870 02:51:04.280 --> 02:51:08.760 meter heights. That's sufficient and for other smaller metholds. 2871 02:51:09.239 --> 02:51:15.280 So as as long as they have as long as 2872 02:51:15.319 --> 02:51:19.280 they have a minimum of fifteen meter height clear water clearance, 2873 02:51:19.840 --> 02:51:21.079 then that's not a problem. 2874 02:51:21.200 --> 02:51:23.559 If they did not put that into consideration, that's when 2875 02:51:23.600 --> 02:51:32.079 it becomes an issue for using For how transportation can 2876 02:51:32.200 --> 02:51:40.159 solve energy, I would say the I would say for 2877 02:51:40.239 --> 02:51:44.239 transportation for example, in terms of like in terms of 2878 02:51:44.360 --> 02:51:49.799 real transportation, I always advocate for electrification because it's it's. 2879 02:51:49.760 --> 02:51:55.399 More, it allows you to to operate, it gives you 2880 02:51:55.520 --> 02:51:59.760 law operating course, it allows you to move more more 2881 02:52:00.040 --> 02:52:05.319 traffic for lower for lower cost than operating with diesel. 2882 02:52:06.360 --> 02:52:08.719 And also you have. 2883 02:52:10.600 --> 02:52:14.879 Electric trains, electric locomotives that have lower maintenance than diesel. 2884 02:52:15.840 --> 02:52:19.399 Diesel trains, so you just have lower operating costs and. 2885 02:52:19.639 --> 02:52:22.799 The cost initial cost of installation is not that much 2886 02:52:22.920 --> 02:52:25.840 different from the cost of a from the cost of 2887 02:52:25.920 --> 02:52:26.360 the diesel. 2888 02:52:28.440 --> 02:52:31.879 So but in terms of like. 2889 02:52:33.600 --> 02:52:38.399 In terms of energy for those they need their own infrastructure, 2890 02:52:38.479 --> 02:52:40.920 like we need we need the pipelines to get the 2891 02:52:41.040 --> 02:52:44.319 gas to where it's needed, we need transmission lines to 2892 02:52:44.399 --> 02:52:50.959 get the electrons the electricity to where it's needed. And 2893 02:52:51.760 --> 02:52:56.040 so that's we just have to invest in the pipeline infrastructure, 2894 02:52:56.360 --> 02:53:00.120 transmission infrastructure, distribution infrastructure to SOW. 2895 02:53:01.600 --> 02:53:05.360 To meet our electricity demands. 2896 02:53:06.200 --> 02:53:10.799 And that that can go hand in hand because. 2897 02:53:12.079 --> 02:53:16.200 Railways are easy easier to electrify than to it will 2898 02:53:16.319 --> 02:53:20.479 distribute electricity to a bunch of distributed customers within the 2899 02:53:20.559 --> 02:53:23.639 city because you just have one massive customer that. 2900 02:53:23.760 --> 02:53:25.319 You can just electrify at. 2901 02:53:26.920 --> 02:53:30.440 At designated substation loads along the rail line. 2902 02:53:31.360 --> 02:53:36.639 So yes, they can, they can think they can be integrated, 2903 02:53:37.479 --> 02:53:38.200 but they. 2904 02:53:41.520 --> 02:53:45.680 I wouldn't say the transport I would say, it's the 2905 02:53:45.840 --> 02:53:52.319 other way around that improving our energy infrastructure will benefit 2906 02:53:52.479 --> 02:53:53.719 our transport. 2907 02:53:55.719 --> 02:53:57.440 Transport infrastructure because you need. 2908 02:53:57.319 --> 02:54:02.319 Electricity to for most things, to power report, to power trains, 2909 02:54:03.079 --> 02:54:03.520 for so. 2910 02:54:03.600 --> 02:54:05.719 Many other things. You need ELECTRISTI for that. 2911 02:54:09.079 --> 02:54:12.040 Let's go I have all right, I hear you. Let's 2912 02:54:12.120 --> 02:54:13.879 just do it real quick and just get a few guys. 2913 02:54:13.920 --> 02:54:16.799 I've been waiting to speak. I've got a Onema said, 2914 02:54:17.000 --> 02:54:20.319 I've got a refundo, and yeah, let's do those two 2915 02:54:20.440 --> 02:54:24.120 because they just to make sure they yes. Thank you 2916 02:54:24.159 --> 02:54:25.879 so much for staying with us for the whole three 2917 02:54:25.959 --> 02:54:29.200 hours with the long play podcast that we do. So 2918 02:54:29.280 --> 02:54:31.319 I just want to appreach you so and one mast 2919 02:54:31.319 --> 02:54:33.840 say you've got the floor after you got rapido and 2920 02:54:33.959 --> 02:54:37.040 then we'll sort of come back to tournament and remarks. 2921 02:54:37.120 --> 02:54:42.280 So go ahead to okay, good, yes, I can, You've 2922 02:54:42.280 --> 02:54:42.760 got the floor. 2923 02:54:43.319 --> 02:54:47.120 Oh, thanks very much, tam is cool to cutch you. 2924 02:54:47.319 --> 02:54:50.319 Yeah, in time, might look at your sweet those things 2925 02:54:50.399 --> 02:54:53.319 that like you know, you should actually be a Minister 2926 02:54:53.680 --> 02:55:00.680 transport like twenty twenty five. Let me drop my questions, try, Christian, 2927 02:55:00.879 --> 02:55:06.159 Is you talk about like how two very important principles 2928 02:55:06.280 --> 02:55:09.719 of infrastructure the ads can really move. 2929 02:55:09.600 --> 02:55:10.879 They need when it comes to. 2930 02:55:11.000 --> 02:55:14.920 Nigeria, which is one the Legos to may Do Goree 2931 02:55:15.680 --> 02:55:20.280 Highway and two the Legos on each protac called railway. 2932 02:55:21.280 --> 02:55:26.760 Now for the Legos may Do Goree Highway, what's nodes 2933 02:55:27.360 --> 02:55:28.360 is it going to pass through? 2934 02:55:28.479 --> 02:55:32.799 Like what major cities and towns and whatever. That's a 2935 02:55:32.920 --> 02:55:33.680 question there. 2936 02:55:34.440 --> 02:55:39.200 Then secondly, how those how will like a railway from 2937 02:55:39.319 --> 02:55:44.079 Legos to an Incha to portacles affect the f Fright's 2938 02:55:44.799 --> 02:55:49.280 business because even from your analysis, like that's one of 2939 02:55:49.639 --> 02:55:52.360 the most profitable routes for flights. 2940 02:55:52.760 --> 02:55:54.479 So it's not like you know what what do you 2941 02:55:54.600 --> 02:55:57.719 think around like paol and situation. 2942 02:55:58.879 --> 02:56:01.719 Secondly, the. 2943 02:56:03.680 --> 02:56:05.159 Procurement challenge is when it. 2944 02:56:05.239 --> 02:56:09.479 Comes to projects we've been having. 2945 02:56:10.120 --> 02:56:13.639 I think Cocola has talked about it before. How there 2946 02:56:13.639 --> 02:56:17.600 are lots of projects that cone into forever projects. You know, 2947 02:56:17.799 --> 02:56:22.319 it's been long you actually really hear of brand new projects, 2948 02:56:22.920 --> 02:56:24.639 you know that are really moving a needle. 2949 02:56:25.000 --> 02:56:28.440 It's always like a project all and all and all 2950 02:56:28.520 --> 02:56:31.399 the projects all over and over again. 2951 02:56:31.680 --> 02:56:33.200 So what do you think about that, Like you know 2952 02:56:33.280 --> 02:56:36.719 the effect of how you know, I know it's political space, 2953 02:56:36.799 --> 02:56:39.479 but like it needs to be said how the procurement 2954 02:56:39.680 --> 02:56:43.760 challenges interfered with our state of development when it comes 2955 02:56:43.799 --> 02:56:46.040 to you know, it's infrastructure. 2956 02:56:46.600 --> 02:56:47.680 And my last question. 2957 02:56:50.239 --> 02:56:55.479 You've talked about like the viability of routes, population, closters, 2958 02:56:55.719 --> 02:56:57.479 business activity. 2959 02:56:57.559 --> 02:56:58.120 And all that. 2960 02:56:59.319 --> 02:57:02.479 But have we also you know, I'm from Delta, so 2961 02:57:02.680 --> 02:57:04.959 like the war report and all those kind of things. 2962 02:57:05.639 --> 02:57:08.600 So but have we also have we come we also 2963 02:57:09.719 --> 02:57:10.200 look at it. 2964 02:57:10.280 --> 02:57:11.319 From the angle of. 2965 02:57:14.840 --> 02:57:21.159 Investing in productivity to make infrastructure variable, you understand, So 2966 02:57:21.319 --> 02:57:24.920 like instead of like coming for imports, first of all, 2967 02:57:25.600 --> 02:57:30.120 you've set of like focus on building industrial activity around 2968 02:57:30.159 --> 02:57:34.159 that area that incentivis the need. So like around these 2969 02:57:34.280 --> 02:57:38.840 our eight states, what crossed us? Do you feel that like, 2970 02:57:39.440 --> 02:57:41.600 you know, that makes a whole lot of sense to 2971 02:57:41.680 --> 02:57:44.520 be looking forward to, just like the own airports, Like 2972 02:57:44.600 --> 02:57:45.600 you know, it's linked. 2973 02:57:45.360 --> 02:57:49.479 To oil and gas logistics for example, coy war imports, 2974 02:57:49.680 --> 02:57:52.760 you know, increase the viability. 2975 02:57:52.159 --> 02:57:56.239 Of whatever expansion or whatever by concentrating some kind of 2976 02:57:56.719 --> 02:58:00.040 industrial activity so that it stimulates. 2977 02:57:59.680 --> 02:58:02.399 Some of demand and all that ability. 2978 02:58:03.120 --> 02:58:07.879 Thank you, Okay, thanks, thanks, thanks. 2979 02:58:07.920 --> 02:58:11.760 A lot of those question questions that will uh let's 2980 02:58:11.799 --> 02:58:17.040 see for the first one regarding the legos Medigury Highway. 2981 02:58:17.879 --> 02:58:19.040 The nodes that it. 2982 02:58:19.120 --> 02:58:19.879 Goes through. 2983 02:58:21.520 --> 02:58:24.120 That I think it should that it should go through. 2984 02:58:25.159 --> 02:58:26.200 So you have. 2985 02:58:27.719 --> 02:58:32.040 The currently the legos. 2986 02:58:32.120 --> 02:58:35.920 It will intersect with the legos ibat On Highway and 2987 02:58:36.120 --> 02:58:41.399 then it will start start around Abio Kota, intersect Legos 2988 02:58:41.440 --> 02:58:48.360 about On Highway bypass Ibaton, go through, go through in 2989 02:58:48.479 --> 02:58:51.520 between ak and Adulikitty. 2990 02:58:52.959 --> 02:58:59.920 And then go through I think it goes goes through. 2991 02:59:02.559 --> 02:59:03.360 The cement. 2992 02:59:05.200 --> 02:59:10.600 Bajana, the cement plant in Kogi and then. 2993 02:59:12.520 --> 02:59:19.079 Goes through abaji Ina and then interspect with the Abujakfi 2994 02:59:19.959 --> 02:59:27.399 Highway and goes through Jaws and then it will from 2995 02:59:27.559 --> 02:59:32.440 Jaws and then to Bauchi. From Bauchi, it will just 2996 02:59:32.719 --> 02:59:38.760 use the remaining stretch of the of the A two 2997 02:59:38.879 --> 02:59:41.520 highway that's from Bauchi to may De great So we 2998 02:59:41.719 --> 02:59:45.479 just expand the capacity or the grade of that highway 2999 02:59:45.520 --> 02:59:48.639 and for the entire corridor. The entire corridor just has 3000 02:59:48.680 --> 02:59:51.760 to be six lanes six six lane corridor. The section 3001 02:59:51.920 --> 02:59:56.680 from our courier to two Lagos can be expanded to eight. 3002 02:59:56.600 --> 02:59:58.159 Lanes for the rest 3003 03:00:00.079 --> 03:00:01.760 The rest from our Courage Major grew