Speaker 1: You see, something's going to happen.
Speaker 2: What What's going to happen?
Speaker 1: What a.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Occult Rejects.
Speaker 3: This episode we got a returning guest, a fan favorite
Speaker 3: and an Occult reject favorite. We got a bigger with
Speaker 3: us tonight before. But before we introduce him, let me
Speaker 3: introduce the other rejects. We got Judith the Loon back
Speaker 3: on again second time today.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Judith, how are you?
Speaker 4: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 5: I'm excited about today's episode, the second episode today, and
Speaker 5: you could catch me at the Loon on YouTube and
Speaker 5: on x.
Speaker 2: Liwesome, Thank you so much.
Speaker 3: And I figured this might be a little bit more
Speaker 3: up your allity, kind of Golden dorn Is style stuff
Speaker 3: with Ike.
Speaker 2: You know, so hopefully it should be fun and my man,
Speaker 2: gin what is going on? So how are you?
Speaker 6: What is a boss? Mister ninety three? So thank you
Speaker 6: so much. Shout out to Ike. Obviously he is a
Speaker 6: guest tonight. But we just did an episode, so it's
Speaker 6: not it's not ready, but in a few in a
Speaker 6: couple of weeks, it will be.
Speaker 2: So episode eighty eight, lookout for that.
Speaker 7: Oh nice, Well you got ninety three, so yeah, you know,
Speaker 7: I really gets their magic number.
Speaker 2: So but first.
Speaker 6: Before that, I'm dropping two episodes with Saschke. I've I've
Speaker 6: chromoted it before it's happening. It was like an eight
Speaker 6: hour recording. It took me like several days to edit
Speaker 6: and sort of work through figure out what was going
Speaker 6: to go on with that. But that's going to be
Speaker 6: really cool. I think talking about AI and cabbala and
Speaker 6: crystals and crystals as in crystal quantum computing, not crystals
Speaker 6: as in uh, you know, collecting magic rocks, but maybe
Speaker 6: a different kind of magic rock. So if you're interested
Speaker 6: in those kinds of things, check me out thresholds Apple, Spotify,
Speaker 6: and of course my subsac threshold Saints dot substack dot com.
Speaker 6: You can follow me on ex Twitter at wucom reborn
Speaker 6: w ukog reborn. Of course you can follow us at
Speaker 6: The Gray Lodge at the True Gray Lodge dot com,
Speaker 6: of which Matt Murra is our webmaster and our our
Speaker 6: YouTube social media coordinator, so obviously like and subscribe to
Speaker 6: our YouTube channel as well.
Speaker 2: And we talk about.
Speaker 6: Pretty much metamagic medica, speculative cabala, speculative, keli chakra, and
Speaker 6: speculative nascissism and our next episode will be on February thirteenth,
Speaker 6: will as the cause of fire and exposition on Gnostic
Speaker 6: Seth Seth non set Seth. So thank you guys so much,
Speaker 6: appreciate it and really looking forward to it.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, thank you Jen. Thank you for everything you
Speaker 3: do too out there. Appreciate it. And my man Brandon,
Speaker 3: what's going on, sir.
Speaker 8: Sup Nick, Hello everyone out there, Welcome to the col Rejects.
Speaker 8: This is gonna be great. I love Mike Baker, I
Speaker 8: listening to him talk about his deep knowledge of things,
Speaker 8: and so I'm very excited about this evening. Make sure
Speaker 8: everyone goes over to Magas and the media on YouTube,
Speaker 8: where I will always tell you we are looking for
Speaker 8: the myth, the meaning, and the magic and the mundane
Speaker 8: in this strange and crazy world. Also check out my
Speaker 8: ex where there's a lot of people who need to
Speaker 8: be laid the SmackDown on them these days, as well
Speaker 8: as go over to the Instagram because this is where
Speaker 8: the discourse is happening. Let's do it.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much, sir, I always appreciate you joining us. Brandon,
Speaker 2: and last for a lot at least, my man Matt Moore.
Speaker 2: What is going on, sir? How are you? Thank you
Speaker 2: for making it? It must be like ridiculously late. It's on
Speaker 2: too for you.
Speaker 9: What is It's nine pm now so it's not that
Speaker 9: Oh really yeah, the members right now.
Speaker 8: So.
Speaker 10: Very glad to be here.
Speaker 9: It's always really good to speak with all of you,
Speaker 9: and also with Pike, which.
Speaker 10: Is coming more often now.
Speaker 9: And yeah, I mean you can always find me on
Speaker 9: all my socials, like I say, at my burn nineteen
Speaker 9: that's going to be Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, Instagram YouTube, maybe
Speaker 9: some other place.
Speaker 10: And today I'm not going to promote my Camalo website,
Speaker 10: which you all know, but I'm promoting a new project
Speaker 10: being worked on which is called gam MoU So it's
Speaker 10: going to be an esoteric platform. I'm really fucking, super
Speaker 10: extra mega excited to do it. And you can actually
Speaker 10: join the waiting list in enter gamu dot com. That's
Speaker 10: g A M Enter g a M dot com. You
Speaker 10: can join the wait list there and when it's ready
Speaker 10: should be pretty quickly, at least the basics of it,
Speaker 10: you're going to get modified. So yeah, let's see liesome.
Speaker 3: Thank you very much, man, and I'm really glad that
Speaker 3: you were able to make it. And uh, finally, to
Speaker 3: the guest himself, Iike, please let everybody know what you
Speaker 3: deal is. Whatever you want to plug where they can
Speaker 3: find your work, please let them know.
Speaker 4: Thanks. I'm really happy to be back on with you guys.
Speaker 4: This is always a lot of fun. My third time
Speaker 4: on probably in like I don't know, like a month
Speaker 4: and a half.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, sorry, but no.
Speaker 4: It's awesome. I love this. The format that you have
Speaker 4: here is really unique amongst you know, while I should
Speaker 4: say successful podcasts and occultism and esotericism and magic and
Speaker 4: all that stuff, you just get a bunch of people
Speaker 4: in the room and or really in their own separate
Speaker 4: rooms and then bring them together and just let the
Speaker 4: sparks fly. So it's a lot of fun. I'm glad
Speaker 4: to be here. I am Mike Baker. I am a
Speaker 4: man of many affiliations. I run the Hermetic Order of
Speaker 4: the Golden Dawn Temple in North Carolina out of Asheville,
Speaker 4: a free Masonic historian. I wrote A Formless Fire in
Speaker 4: twenty twenty four, which is about the history, theory, and
Speaker 4: practice of the Western esoteric traditions from antiquity until about
Speaker 4: the nineteenth and early early twentieth century. The book we're
Speaker 4: gonna talk about tonight I wrote in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 4: I published it with Lou Ellen. It's called Etheric Magic,
Speaker 4: and uh, I'm really excited to talk about that and
Speaker 4: and everything else. Anybody wants to find out more about
Speaker 4: the podcast and the YouTube channel that I run and
Speaker 4: host ar kanam A R C A n v M,
Speaker 4: you can check it out at my website, Ike Baker
Speaker 4: dot com I K E B A K E R.
Speaker 4: I have got everything my blog, my podcast, my documentary
Speaker 4: style presentations and what have you. So check that out
Speaker 4: and I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 3: Well yeah, well, thank you very much, said, I really
Speaker 3: appreciate you coming on. And if people haven't checked out
Speaker 3: his stuff, if you're into this show because of the
Speaker 3: you know, the deep dive, well not everything's always deep
Speaker 3: dives anymore, but if you're into the in depth conversation
Speaker 3: that we have on topics, definitely go check out his channel.
Speaker 3: He goes fall beyond what we talk about, so he's
Speaker 3: got a plethora of, you know, definitely intense stuff to
Speaker 3: listen to. My opinion, So Hike, thank you very much
Speaker 3: for joining us. And yes, the book Etheric magic. First
Speaker 3: question I wanted to ask you is what I guess,
Speaker 3: what would etheric magic mean to you?
Speaker 4: Well, it's right out of the gate. It's a confusing
Speaker 4: term for most people. But so my primary goal in
Speaker 4: the beginning of the book, at the outset of the
Speaker 4: book is to define my terms. I find generally that
Speaker 4: in magic and the occult, and increasingly outside of it,
Speaker 4: we're using words. We have a common vernacular, but we're
Speaker 4: defining these things. There's different shades of meaning depending on
Speaker 4: the person and the community that they came up in.
Speaker 4: For instance, a lot of people might think I'm talking
Speaker 4: about the Enochi and ethers when I talk about etheric magic, right,
Speaker 4: But that's not what I mean to really discuss. I
Speaker 4: based it off of the really Platonic traditions word for
Speaker 4: the fifth element, which was ethira okay, and it basically,
Speaker 4: you know, it contained other elements. It was a you know,
Speaker 4: a quintessence of sorts. So I wanted to systematize that
Speaker 4: term because we don't really have a satisfactory term for
Speaker 4: that in the West, right. And we'll go into into this,
Speaker 4: you know, obviously I talked about how i'm I'm in
Speaker 4: the Western esoteric traditions. But I went to school for
Speaker 4: Chinese medicine and acupuncture, and you know, I studied meridian theory.
Speaker 4: I studied chigung privately and in school, and so I
Speaker 4: I have a lot of experience on both sides of
Speaker 4: the fence. And what I saw was that in the
Speaker 4: Eastern systems there was a much more developed and systematized
Speaker 4: body of energy work, okay, and they had discrete terms
Speaker 4: for it like chi, prana, uh so on so forth,
Speaker 4: key in, you know, in the Japanese tradition, ray key,
Speaker 4: So they had terms that right in anglophone languages, it's
Speaker 4: kind of like, you know, words are a little bit
Speaker 4: more specific. There's there's less there's less of a broader interpretation.
Speaker 4: And for instance, the word chi or let's say the
Speaker 4: pictograph for chi uh in in in in Chinese, is
Speaker 4: it actually resembles It's supposed to be the vapor rising
Speaker 4: off of a pot of rice uh and this is
Speaker 4: supposed to communicate breath vapor. But it's also, as we know,
Speaker 4: universal life force energy. It's also used to describe something's
Speaker 4: inherent nature. So you say, why does why does water
Speaker 4: flow downhill? And Daoist would say that is its chi,
Speaker 4: that is its nature. So there's all these You know,
Speaker 4: there's this wonderful way of communicating in other languages, but
Speaker 4: in anglophone languages we strive for precision, and especially in
Speaker 4: discourses like this. I wanted to facilitate that in the
Speaker 4: In the the Western tradition, we have the term energy
Speaker 4: work right, that is that's extremely vague. I wouldn't even
Speaker 4: say that it's broad. I would say that it's vague
Speaker 4: because if you go and look at the scientific definition
Speaker 4: of energy, the definition is the ability to do work,
Speaker 4: which effectively tells me what we're working about it. So
Speaker 4: I don't know, is it really energy? I can't say,
Speaker 4: because I'm not a scientist my area of expertise is
Speaker 4: in this stuff. But I will say that it's it's
Speaker 4: best characterized as a radiant luminosity, this ether, this quintessence,
Speaker 4: this chi that runs through and around the organism that
Speaker 4: we we have no choice but to talk about in
Speaker 4: terms of energy because it's the way that most people
Speaker 4: are going to be able to grasp onto this in
Speaker 4: the Western system. So ether is is my term in
Speaker 4: an attempt to systematize a definition for this universal life
Speaker 4: force energy specifically in this Western context.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3: I actually fell into the whole thing of thinking it
Speaker 3: might have been a Nokia magic myself when I first
Speaker 3: heard the name of the book, and then I was.
Speaker 2: Like, I don't know, let me go check before I
Speaker 2: just assume. And I was like, ah, it's not so yeah, yeah, no, I.
Speaker 4: Mean, I'm not going to teach people how to describe
Speaker 4: the ethers I took.
Speaker 2: That's actually I was kind of surprise. I was like,
Speaker 2: I was actually surprised you would have put that out.
Speaker 4: I can't do that.
Speaker 2: I take oaths. Yeah, so good for you, man, Good
Speaker 2: go ahead.
Speaker 8: Yeah. Do you think then that see in the more
Speaker 8: of the Chigung's sense, when you speak to Chigung masters
Speaker 8: and Kungo guys, they talk about the bioelectric body, right,
Speaker 8: and so could you then superimpose a very similar for
Speaker 8: idea of ether with like it's a bioelectric field that
Speaker 8: moves through all things.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 4: The thing is that in terms of Chiegong and Daoist masters,
Speaker 4: that's a very very new thing to call it that, right,
Speaker 4: because we for for the millennia that they had this tradition,
Speaker 4: they didn't know about bio bioluminosity or bioelectricity. I talk
Speaker 4: about it, I try and talk about it. I would
Speaker 4: say that there's there's various shades of density of energy.
Speaker 4: Energy is all. It's all the same thing. It's just
Speaker 4: depending on its state of vibration, it has different ways
Speaker 4: of interacting with itself and other things. Right, So like
Speaker 4: it can be electricity or it can be magnetism, depending
Speaker 4: on what end of the spectrum it's on. Right, we
Speaker 4: call that electromagnetic spectrum. So, but it's it's all. It's
Speaker 4: all energy, which we really we have hard time defining
Speaker 4: outside of light vibrating at various rates, mostly very very fast.
Speaker 4: So I would say radiant luminosity is a good way
Speaker 4: to conceive of this because it's it's it's somewhere, it's
Speaker 4: slightly subtler. It's related to it's in that that band,
Speaker 4: that broad band spectrum. But it's it's different than electro
Speaker 4: magnetic field. And I'll tell you why. It's it obeys
Speaker 4: your mind. She obeyed your mind. This is how we're
Speaker 4: able to move it. Right, How I was saying, is
Speaker 4: where the mind goes, the chi flows.
Speaker 8: Yeah, move the chi.
Speaker 4: You gotta link that up. You got to link that
Speaker 4: up you. Most people don't have a firm, established working
Speaker 4: understanding and that immediate relationship to their to their radiant boss.
Speaker 4: It's kind of like teaching a like an atrophied limb,
Speaker 4: where you like, you have an I have an arm
Speaker 4: that wasn't aware I even had. Now I have to
Speaker 4: kind of get it to move and work out my
Speaker 4: motor my fine motor skills and things like this. You know,
Speaker 4: that's the case with linking up your conscious mind to
Speaker 4: the what will be latent and impressionable etheric fields.
Speaker 10: Right.
Speaker 4: So I refer to that in the book as a
Speaker 4: lesser conjunction of Saul and Luna. So I couch the
Speaker 4: entire thing. I couch the entire thing in the the
Speaker 4: the allegories, formulas and terms of alchemy, because ultimately Chi
Speaker 4: Gung Tichi, all of this stuff comes out of Nadan,
Speaker 4: which is Daoist internal alchemy, and they have a very
Speaker 4: very interesting and similar system to us. But they they're
Speaker 4: they're textual tradition. Is it's difficult for Westerners, but it's
Speaker 4: there's more. There's more there that can be readily understood
Speaker 4: I think by people native to the culture who are
Speaker 4: involved in that whereas like alchemy is a total Western
Speaker 4: alchemy is a totally different thing in terms of the
Speaker 4: textual tradition. I had a conversation with the alchemist Phoenix Aurelius,
Speaker 4: and we were talking about the Western alchemical textual tradition,
Speaker 4: and I think we referred to it as like a
Speaker 4: fever dream forest. You know, it's like it's just all
Speaker 4: these strange allegories and images and and everybody thinks that
Speaker 4: they have the answer, you know, this is what this
Speaker 4: key means. That really it's it's all dependent on where
Speaker 4: and when this this stuff was written. Whereas there's a
Speaker 4: little bit more systematization because there's an there's a protected
Speaker 4: tradition in the East of internal alchemy that manifests things
Speaker 4: like chigong and taichi and even and especially a lot
Speaker 4: of people don't realize is it's like the other side
Speaker 4: of the coin of martial arts. Like you, martial arts
Speaker 4: and and and and chigong are linked inextricably, you know
Speaker 4: in the East.
Speaker 8: Yeah, no, that's fascinating. When I found out a long
Speaker 8: time ago that, like U, there's thirteen main postures in taichi.
Speaker 8: I don't remember if I was telling you this, but
Speaker 8: The idea is that it links up the the eight
Speaker 8: Trigrams of Baguah with the five elements of Chinese medicine.
Speaker 8: So you get this beautiful mixing of the Taoists with
Speaker 8: the Buddhists, and then you get it in this one
Speaker 8: grand ultimate system, which is what Taichi means. It's amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah. The the the reliance on the simple system of
Speaker 4: the Bagua the eight Trigrams is so sophisticated and elegant.
Speaker 4: It's also ancient that it's there's no way I tried
Speaker 4: my best, but there's no way I could I could
Speaker 4: match that in terms of what I described in the
Speaker 4: book in Ethoreic Magic. Luckily, I am releasing another book
Speaker 4: this year within an tradition called Esoteric Mythology, where I
Speaker 4: do take people through the Bagua the Trigrams and talk
Speaker 4: about Dais cosmology. So you know, I like to look
Speaker 4: at I like to think of my body of work
Speaker 4: as all related. You know, if you if you get
Speaker 4: it doesn't matter if they're on slightly different topics, they
Speaker 4: all they fill each other in. They kind of you know,
Speaker 4: complete the profile.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 8: Nice, I will say for everyone out there listening, Bena Bell,
Speaker 8: when I Believe is her name. She has put out
Speaker 8: fantastic work in the eaching and the Daoist Yeah.
Speaker 6: Second, I'll second that. Brandon gend Well, I'm very familiar
Speaker 6: with Daois. I'm just like we Nick and I interviewed
Speaker 6: a Daoist priest from Cambodia, Chinese Cambodian. But like, yeah,
Speaker 6: I grew I grew up around DAOs on my whole life,
Speaker 6: like I've I mean, I lived in Hong Kong, I've
Speaker 6: been around it. It's not like something totally bargn to me,
Speaker 6: like what I say, I'm a Taoist or no that
Speaker 6: much textually no, but.
Speaker 2: Am I comfortable culturally with it? Yes?
Speaker 6: And so like Benabel, it's very similar to Kabala. Actually,
Speaker 6: you're supposed to translate your own version of eaching when
Speaker 6: you turn forty, and so she did that from like
Speaker 6: Mandarin into English. And she also did that from you
Speaker 6: have to come up excuse me, you have to come
Speaker 6: up with your own definitions basically, but they have to
Speaker 6: refer to the class culture tradition. So it's a scholarly endeavor.
Speaker 2: And she did that.
Speaker 6: So that's a very impressive just undertaking as a sort
Speaker 6: of like a Taoist magician or a Dauscher or whatever
Speaker 6: you want to call it.
Speaker 2: Though for sure.
Speaker 6: It's very impressive and I and I think she would
Speaker 6: be a great guest, and I've reached out her. Yeah,
Speaker 6: so shout out to Bennabella if she wants to come on,
Speaker 6: Come on.
Speaker 4: Annabel Is bene Bell was formative for a lot of
Speaker 4: the stuff that I did. She was the first and
Speaker 4: I talk about her a lot on my shows, and
Speaker 4: the forward right for you, I have to know she
Speaker 4: did the forward. But Benebel was the first person to
Speaker 4: read Etheric Magic because I had been talking back and forth.
Speaker 4: We had been other than my editor, but I had
Speaker 4: been I had been going back and forth with Bennabel
Speaker 4: for months about uh, this kind of stuff. She didn't
Speaker 4: really know, she didn't see the full picture until I
Speaker 4: sent her the the the proof, the unedited, the uncorrected
Speaker 4: proof for for her to offer a blurb. And the
Speaker 4: response I got from her made me well up with tears.
Speaker 4: She said, you know, it's uh, she said it was.
Speaker 4: She thought it was unbelievable and and she she she
Speaker 4: did give a very good blurb. So but the thing,
Speaker 4: the key thing, and I mentioned her work, I cite
Speaker 4: her work. I talk about her in the book. Is
Speaker 4: that for me, there is no scholar at the crossroads
Speaker 4: of esoteric philosophy and practice in any tradition that is
Speaker 4: doing it the way she is. So yeah, she somebody
Speaker 4: of the highest caliber. I hope you guys get her
Speaker 4: on the show and if she's here, tell her.
Speaker 3: I said, hello, nice, nice, Yeah, Oh I saw how
Speaker 3: day pop up when I was looking at your book
Speaker 3: and stuff.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 3: One thing I did want to ask, I guess like
Speaker 3: I had, I've had a guy on Cole Lee on
Speaker 3: Southgate and he was like somebody who I think reduplicated
Speaker 3: Wilhelm Reich's experiment with oregon, and sometimes he would kind
Speaker 3: of like go kind of consider that like almost like ether,
Speaker 3: and like so like do you think that's he will
Speaker 3: look at it that it's like kind of like everything
Speaker 3: around this and it's everywhere.
Speaker 8: Is that?
Speaker 4: Here's the thing is this. It was first discovered in
Speaker 4: the West in a major way at a time where
Speaker 4: like science was burgeoning, right, So really the first person
Speaker 4: to really do it and it exploded was Franz Anton Mesmer. Okay,
Speaker 4: he was the first one.
Speaker 2: He wrote.
Speaker 4: He has a memoir that he wrote very thin, very readable.
Speaker 4: It's called the disc on the Discovery of Animal Magnetism.
Speaker 4: He was calling it electromagnetism, but really he called it
Speaker 4: was more so magnetic than it was electric.
Speaker 9: Uh.
Speaker 4: And he would he was a physician, and what he
Speaker 4: would do is he would do these things called like
Speaker 4: magnetic or mesmeric passes. He essentially render them in a
Speaker 4: state of what he called somnambulism. Okay, this is very
Speaker 4: It's the word that you see constantly in the work
Speaker 4: of you know, Crowley era stuff. The Theosophical Society used
Speaker 4: that word, the somnambulistic state. He he effectively coined this
Speaker 4: word and write, somnambulism means you're asleep but walking around
Speaker 4: like you're able to move, but you're asleep. So Franz
Speaker 4: Anton Mesmer discovered hypnotism. In the West, it used to
Speaker 4: be called mesmerism. Now we don't call it that anymore,
Speaker 4: but it's still there's vestiges of it in our vernacular.
Speaker 4: When you say, oh, he was mesmerized by that, I
Speaker 4: was mesmerized by this, just like transfixed.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 4: So initially that science that that technique was called mesmerism.
Speaker 4: To put somebody in a trance using magnetic passes.
Speaker 8: It really really.
Speaker 4: Developed with people like Alankar dec Ellie fuss Levy was
Speaker 4: huge on it. He considered what Mesmer found to be
Speaker 4: what he called the azolt, the magical agent. He said,
Speaker 4: this is what makes magic work right. And elifas lev
Speaker 4: he's not he wasn't a guy that really he It's
Speaker 4: very typical of the French style, even to the to
Speaker 4: the modern day, or at least into the twentieth century.
Speaker 4: It's like this strange wordplay. I don't know if it's
Speaker 4: something to do with their language, but they conceal more
Speaker 4: than they reveal. And it's so you're sitting there the
Speaker 4: whole time and there's this kind of like tension that
Speaker 4: builds up. Right, it's just feel like too much foreplay,
Speaker 4: you know. But there's this one particular tract, this very
Speaker 4: thin treatise that I found in New York City on
Speaker 4: Fourteenth Street in a bookshop called Namasta Books by Union Square.
Speaker 4: This was years ago, still there, bookstore is still there.
Speaker 4: Little track translated by Arthur Edward Waite. It's called the
Speaker 4: Science of Hermes And in this I don't know, thirty
Speaker 4: forty page little booklet, eliphas Levy is explicit for the
Speaker 4: very first time. He's hyped up this whole thing with
Speaker 4: at the magical agent and the the twin serpents of
Speaker 4: the astrolite. He's speaking about it symbolically and be careful.
Speaker 4: It can devour you, it can lead you to your death.
Speaker 4: But it's the operative agent of magic. So in this
Speaker 4: treatise he defines it and he says, as off, the
Speaker 4: great magical agent is nothing less than magnetized electricity. So
Speaker 4: this is, uh, this is what at this time period,
Speaker 4: this is what they were grafting things. They were they
Speaker 4: were trying to make it fit with the scientific vernacular. Now,
Speaker 4: I studied, you know, chief theory in in in college,
Speaker 4: and even still they're trying to figure it out. They
Speaker 4: don't know that it's uh, electromagnetic, they don't know that
Speaker 4: it's bio, that it's related to bioluminosity. There are if
Speaker 4: you read uh, I forget the name of the book.
Speaker 4: I have it right here on my shelf, but I
Speaker 4: don't want to get up and be rude.
Speaker 10: Uh.
Speaker 2: There's a book.
Speaker 4: That I'll get in a minute, and it talks about
Speaker 4: how research was done to show how the she meridians
Speaker 4: run along fashion lines in the body. They run almost
Speaker 4: exactly with the lines of fascia, the connective tissue throughout
Speaker 4: the body. So so we're still trying to figure it out.
Speaker 4: But for for for a magician's purposes, it's it's it's
Speaker 4: not that it's it's unimportant to know. It's not enough
Speaker 4: to know. It's not enough to know what this is.
Speaker 4: You have to work with it. You have to work
Speaker 4: and don't be so convinced that you must put it
Speaker 4: in this little box, because at the end of the day,
Speaker 4: who gives a shit? If it works, use it, use it.
Speaker 4: You will develop a much more intimate relationship with this
Speaker 4: if you use it rather than try and explain it scientifically.
Speaker 4: But I get it, you know, in the modern West,
Speaker 4: that's the way our brains are hardwired. We've got all
Speaker 4: this programming telling us we have to find a scientific
Speaker 4: way to describe this and something rooted in materialism so
Speaker 4: that I can feel good about it and I don't
Speaker 4: have to sound crazy. Meantime, you're pranting around in robes.
Speaker 4: You know, at this point, who gives a shit?
Speaker 3: Well, even the guy who comes on my show that
Speaker 3: I've I don't know a few times about this stuff.
Speaker 3: I still think he's even like lost to a sense
Speaker 3: of like what the fuck he's even playing with. But
Speaker 3: like what I was getting at is like, do you
Speaker 3: think this is something like it's some sort of like
Speaker 3: I guess obviously with the book, I'm looking at it
Speaker 3: as like some sort of energy that's like within everything,
Speaker 3: maybe around this and we can actually tap into it
Speaker 3: and manipulate in a movie, or you don't move it
Speaker 3: to our will.
Speaker 4: Maybe, Yeah, And I talk about it in terms of right,
Speaker 4: and I said that I don't like to talk in
Speaker 4: scientific verbiage, but I'm gonna utilize this here because I
Speaker 4: talk about it in the book. So the idea of
Speaker 4: the luminiferous ether that uh Tesla Nicola Tesla positive really
Speaker 4: made popular, he said. And this is very Rosy Krushian actually,
Speaker 4: because the Rossi, one of the main Rosi Crucian maxims
Speaker 4: is nic wa kwam vakum, right, that's out of the
Speaker 4: Fama fraternity. Tant is nowhere avoid, There is nowhere avoid.
Speaker 4: And so this idea that light travels these empty expanses
Speaker 4: was unt pennible. The light from the Sun passing through
Speaker 4: the vacuum of space that's an untenable idea in that framework.
Speaker 4: So what he really conceived of and there's there's there's problems.
Speaker 4: There's still problems, and they don't teach you this, but
Speaker 4: there's still issues like how light is able to refract
Speaker 4: through like a glass, you know, not ali like a prism,
Speaker 4: like a water glass. That there's all sorts of problems
Speaker 4: with the way that we conceive of of the of
Speaker 4: light and it's it's traveling. But the thing is it's
Speaker 4: couched in such esoteric scientific language. It sounds very attractive,
Speaker 4: and meantime, nobody knows what the hell it really means
Speaker 4: unless you've gone through that that priesthood training of you know,
Speaker 4: become the new priesthood of you know, this academic sort
Speaker 4: of uh scientifistic uh training. But they the luminiferous ether
Speaker 4: basically says that there is no void, there is no vacuum,
Speaker 4: that there is this this field. It's a field that
Speaker 4: is almost an empty fullness, and it contains everything inside
Speaker 4: of that field. And when things travel or appear to travel,
Speaker 4: what's really happening is that this field, which is latent
Speaker 4: until it has acted upon, is stimulated to produce a
Speaker 4: form of light. You know, which can be color, which
Speaker 4: can be you know, just plain light. So it's all
Speaker 4: about stimulation of the ether. And this is effectively, Yeah,
Speaker 4: this is how we understand the personal etheric field to work.
Speaker 4: That's how magicians do it. They tap into it with
Speaker 4: the mind and they pull forth from it, They extract
Speaker 4: forth from it what it is they need, whatever their
Speaker 4: purposes are. Now we have a sophisticated languaging around this
Speaker 4: which seems kind of goofy, but earth, air, fire, water,
Speaker 4: the seven classical planets, and the twelve signs of the zodiac,
Speaker 4: all of those things right there right if you're going
Speaker 4: based off of the Seffroyette era, they embody, they embody
Speaker 4: all of the creative potencies of the cosmos. So it's
Speaker 4: it's it seems like simplistic, but really what we're doing
Speaker 4: is we have our own sort of you know, ideograms,
Speaker 4: these these images that are associated with the whole continuity
Speaker 4: of ideas that we use in order to induce these
Speaker 4: things in our own personal etheric field that we call
Speaker 4: the sphere of sensation. So yes, I would say completely,
Speaker 4: it is this thing that is everywhere. It's as you know,
Speaker 4: I love to quote Yoda buddy. He basically it's the
Speaker 4: same thing as the force. It truly, truly is you know.
Speaker 4: And it's just so interesting to me that the path
Speaker 4: of the Jedi was to learn how to use this force.
Speaker 8: You know.
Speaker 4: It's very very interesting.
Speaker 8: Yeah, no, it's fascinating. Yeah, and people should know that.
Speaker 8: Somebody put it in the chat, so they're really smart.
Speaker 8: Body Electric by Robert Becker is is amazing for breaking
Speaker 8: all that ideas down. It's just yeah, exactly, it's fascinating.
Speaker 8: So going from the living organism into it and at
Speaker 8: the very end proving how you can regenerate limbs by
Speaker 8: understanding your that a boy understanding. Uh not, Oh, that's
Speaker 8: a good book.
Speaker 4: So that I just just not to interrupt you, but
Speaker 4: this is this was the book I was talking about.
Speaker 4: It's called The Spark in the Machine. Yeah, so, uh,
Speaker 4: doctor Daniel keone, this is the book that I was
Speaker 4: talking about with some of that. Uh. The subtitle is
Speaker 4: how the Science of Acupuncture Explains the Mysteries of Western Medicine.
Speaker 4: This is an invaluable book. I recommend it.
Speaker 2: Nice. Yeah, you know, it's interesting to think about it.
Speaker 3: Me and Judith had a mutual friend that was into
Speaker 3: acupunctutuity was in the oto with us.
Speaker 8: I mean, I think it's most important is do kung
Speaker 8: fu and do magic, right, I mean it's like why
Speaker 8: not be a warrior magician in this world? And I
Speaker 8: think it's It's something I'm continually talking about with people,
Speaker 8: is it's like, why why not make your body into
Speaker 8: exactly what you want it to be? Because it's a
Speaker 8: body mind siyssogy, so you know, understand the body, understand
Speaker 8: the mind.
Speaker 4: Right, absolutely, absolutely, I mean that's the whole thing is,
Speaker 4: Like you, there's things that happen to you and Brandon,
Speaker 4: I think you and I talked about it when I
Speaker 4: was on your podcast, but there are things that happened
Speaker 4: to your to you somadically when you begin to train
Speaker 4: in a system of martial arts that people would not assume, right.
Speaker 4: People think that you're going to get really kind of
Speaker 4: clunky and kind of just very like you know, jerky
Speaker 4: and your movements, and there is that in a certain
Speaker 4: type of kung fu and a certain type of martial arts.
Speaker 4: But really what's going on is like you're you're actually
Speaker 4: becoming gentler, Like you're learning how to move like a
Speaker 4: like a swan. You know, like like a cat. You know,
Speaker 4: you really are You're you're using your body in a
Speaker 4: way that's very much like dance, and it's it's it
Speaker 4: doesn't wait for you to be on the dance floor
Speaker 4: like you're just you're living your life like that. So
Speaker 4: that elegance and that flow contributes to the beauty and
Speaker 4: the harmony of the soul as well, which inhabits the
Speaker 4: body for a time.
Speaker 8: Yeah. Yeah, And thus in the idea of kung fu, right,
Speaker 8: it doesn't mean martial art, right, it means mastery through time,
Speaker 8: which is a common misconception.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the that's the interesting thing, right in like
Speaker 4: chin Chinese culture, they call it wushu. They don't call
Speaker 4: it kung fu. They can call anything that you've done
Speaker 4: and acquired incredible skill. It could be like I could
Speaker 4: be like sharpening pencils. That's if you've mastered it, that's
Speaker 4: gung fu. You know, mastery really is gung fu, but
Speaker 4: we use it as a generic term. They call it
Speaker 4: wushu martial arts.
Speaker 8: Yeah, and interesting enough, even good kung fu has gone underground,
Speaker 8: and so there's a wushu has now become taken over
Speaker 8: or buy the CCP and the operatic theatrics, and so
Speaker 8: it's really fascinating. I trust me.
Speaker 6: That's as someone you can as the wushu person growing up.
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, you know it is.
Speaker 2: It's sports.
Speaker 6: Wushu is sports performance means like so sancho that is,
Speaker 6: that's for physical contact, like that's what the army trains in.
Speaker 6: But wushu is just for the is to preserve classical forms.
Speaker 8: Well, there's a conspiracy out.
Speaker 2: Because just.
Speaker 6: As someone from the diaspora, Brandon, I'll just tell you
Speaker 6: that people from Hong Kong, Indonesia, Singapore, Taiwan, we all
Speaker 6: do wusho too as kids like my dad's. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 6: just I'm just saying it's not just like a CCP
Speaker 6: conspiracy that like someone might participate in their like cultural form, right.
Speaker 4: I just want to say that because that would be
Speaker 4: that would be kind of cool if if we start
Speaker 4: talking about CCP conspiracy. Interesting left turn.
Speaker 9: But I don't.
Speaker 8: Speaking strictly out of my caboos.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 8: There's a few teasers I have over in San Francisco,
Speaker 8: Chucci Link being one of them is Master Hungar from
Speaker 8: that family, and it's a there's an interesting differentiation and
Speaker 8: I only connected due to the idea of kung fu
Speaker 8: having to go underground because in many times in its
Speaker 8: history because of its ability to topple governments.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Boxer rebellion really but but but that's that's that's
Speaker 4: you know, that's really that is really interesting, this idea
Speaker 4: of of of kung fu having to go underground, because
Speaker 4: if you remember, right, and like I think I want
Speaker 4: to say and and Jin can correct me, because I'm
Speaker 4: again I'm a little out outside of my wheelhouse and
Speaker 4: what I'm about to say, but uh, I think in
Speaker 4: the nineteenth and eighteenth centuries, or maybe it's the nineteenth
Speaker 4: and early twentieth centuries, martial arts became really to my understanding,
Speaker 4: you became associated with secret societies.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, that's absolutely.
Speaker 6: I mean it's it's been associated with the Triad since
Speaker 6: the beginning of the Triad, and like it predates the
Speaker 6: Boxer Rebellion because it actually relates to the Hawk what's
Speaker 6: called the Hakka Punti Wars, and we won't get into this,
Speaker 6: it's a series of ethnic conflicts in southern China. But
Speaker 6: like Bagua was developed it as a court martial arts system,
Speaker 6: like in the during the Qing dynasty, which is like
Speaker 6: the last Manshu dynasty. Everybody's seen like the last Emperor
Speaker 6: of China. So bagua was developed as like a bodyguard
Speaker 6: system of self defense. So there's like a The thing
Speaker 6: is is like Chinese martial arts is very varied, and
Speaker 6: so after the Cultural Revolution they actually systematized it. So
Speaker 6: then there's sport fighting which is called wusha as we
Speaker 6: said wushu, and then there's full contact sport fighting which
Speaker 6: is called san show, which includes.
Speaker 2: All the martial arts.
Speaker 6: But they just they brought in like different people like
Speaker 6: from se Lot, like a Screama from phil the Philippines,
Speaker 6: Crave McGraw from like Israel because like China has a
Speaker 6: defense agreement with Israeli. But like they brought in all
Speaker 6: these people and they kind of systematized it with the
Speaker 6: Chinese masters basically, and they said, what is going to
Speaker 6: be the best full contact full contact thing. So you
Speaker 6: can see a lot of post two thousand and one
Speaker 6: Hong Kong films, like if you watch like I'm forgetting
Speaker 6: his name now, I think his name is Jingly or yeah, Jingle,
Speaker 6: I think Woijing Wuijing. I'm sorry, I couldn't remember, but
Speaker 6: his his films are all sanchow fighting, So you're you're right, ike,
Speaker 6: is that they're all interconnected, like it's all like part
Speaker 6: of the PPA, like the People's Liberation Army, the PLA
Speaker 6: or the triad. So you do see like a conflict,
Speaker 6: but in general most people just differentiate, Like wushi is
Speaker 6: just like systematized. It's for it's for competition, sport fighting,
Speaker 6: and then sound shows like what the army does, and
Speaker 6: then all the other martial arts.
Speaker 2: That's more of a diaspora thing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like is saying, and it's what's the way that
Speaker 4: I kind of incorporate that into the book? Is actually right?
Speaker 4: There are postures because that's just part of magic, it's
Speaker 4: part of tigong, it's part of any kind of energy work.
Speaker 4: But but the thing is I emphasize not certainly, not
Speaker 4: to the exclusion of the magical. I mean there's a
Speaker 4: I would say half the book is like exercises practices
Speaker 4: specifically towards magic. But but I bring something into the
Speaker 4: discussion that I don't see really covered in any depth
Speaker 4: very often, and that is health because you can use
Speaker 4: this stuff to heal yourself, others, et cetera, so on
Speaker 4: and so forth. And I have training and I feel
Speaker 4: like everybody does now. But I got a pretty early
Speaker 4: training in ray key under Joanna Crespo at the Open
Speaker 4: Center in New York City, probably over ten years ago now,
Speaker 4: and she's fantastic.
Speaker 9: Uh.
Speaker 4: And then yeah, that's that was right before I started
Speaker 4: school for acupuncture and studying privately for chigong and martial arts.
Speaker 4: But that whole thing was about it's the way that
Speaker 4: it's distilled now because this the Meridian theory, Dallist philosophy, Bagua,
Speaker 4: martial arts, it's all part of this holistic philosophy. But
Speaker 4: because and Bettebel talks about this a lot, there's there
Speaker 4: are traditions of indigenous magic, which is I mean unbelievable,
Speaker 4: unbelievable forms of magic. But the way that we really
Speaker 4: inherit this stuff in the West is for health purposes.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: You go to school for acupuncture and you just so
Speaker 4: happen to learn qigong. Chigong is also what they call,
Speaker 4: you know, the fountain of life in terms or the
Speaker 4: fountain of youth in terms of you know, these these
Speaker 4: esoteric entergy work. So there's there's a strong emphasis in
Speaker 4: this in health of the body, health of the mind,
Speaker 4: health of the emotions, health of the soul and spirit,
Speaker 4: and certainly the energetic body is not always healthy.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 4: I mean, I teach people in this book and so far,
Speaker 4: I mean I've had an outstanding track record because I've
Speaker 4: I've been all over the country. I've been to London,
Speaker 4: I've been to California. I've been doing workshops out of
Speaker 4: this book and teaching people, and it's I've done it
Speaker 4: in Egypt. It's amazing to see someone's reaction the first
Speaker 4: time that they see their energetic body, you know, the
Speaker 4: the the you know, like, oh my god, it's real,
Speaker 4: sot sort of thing and look around like, uh, can
Speaker 4: you see that? So but but you can see this stuff,
Speaker 4: and I do. There there is a it's it's not
Speaker 4: imaginable there, there is an actual component of lights to this,
Speaker 4: a radiant luminosity, and so you know, having worked on
Speaker 4: this for for over a decade now, it's it's you know,
Speaker 4: I'm able to see it pretty pretty immediately. You always
Speaker 4: see pictures of people's auras, right, and how it's like
Speaker 4: avoid egg shaped. I've probably seen two people in my
Speaker 4: entire life that have a completely like fully developed, bounded
Speaker 4: symmetrical aura. It's normally like it's patchy, it's splotchy, there
Speaker 4: are holes.
Speaker 10: You know.
Speaker 4: And and so that is a big part of chigung
Speaker 4: and in the and this is the last piece I'll
Speaker 4: end on. In the Western tradition, particularly the Hellenistic tradition,
Speaker 4: the tradition of of of Greco, Roman Egypt, and that
Speaker 4: whole swathe. Their entire brand of theorgy, right, which is
Speaker 4: magic applied to the development of the soul. Their entire
Speaker 4: project was to perfect the luminous body, make it spherical,
Speaker 4: make it whole, make it strong. So we do have
Speaker 4: a tradition of this in the in the West, it's
Speaker 4: just that you know, again, our textual basis is, i
Speaker 4: would say, specifically regarding the luminous body as fairly sparse
Speaker 4: and fragmentary. And there hasn't been a consistent tradition to
Speaker 4: key right. That's that's the whole interesting thing about Woosho
Speaker 4: is that it's built to to to transmit and preserve
Speaker 4: forms like we don't.
Speaker 2: We don't have that, you know.
Speaker 4: The golden tawn is the closest thing we have to
Speaker 4: It doesn't go all the way back, you know, it
Speaker 4: goes back to eighteen eighty eight.
Speaker 1: Uh so.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so, so that health component applies across the spectrum,
Speaker 4: and the book has has plenty of that as regards
Speaker 4: the the you know, the the etheric field and the
Speaker 4: personal etheric body of the practitioner.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 8: I then have a question, what do you have you
Speaker 8: heard Damian Knuckles talk about because I listened to a
Speaker 8: lot of his podcasts for a while, But he spoke
Speaker 8: about how the oor around the body when what we're
Speaker 8: trying to do when perfected, obviously a tough word is
Speaker 8: it's the concentric circles of the great chain of being.
Speaker 8: That image from way back in the day, back in
Speaker 8: the ancient texts, you know, which when I'm talking about
Speaker 8: I can't. But anyway, what do you think about that?
Speaker 8: For what he was saying about that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean Damien's on point, man, because he lives
Speaker 4: it too. I talked Damien regularly. He actually was he
Speaker 4: he was one of the first people to really give
Speaker 4: my book props and and kind of talk about it
Speaker 4: for his audience and stuff, and so we were going
Speaker 4: back and forth on that for a little while. And Jamien,
Speaker 4: you know, he really knows his stuff because he's somebody
Speaker 4: I think we're very akin in in one very specific
Speaker 4: way is that like whatever we do, we're going to
Speaker 4: do it to death, and like it's all about immersion
Speaker 4: and it's all about living it. I do not want
Speaker 4: to come on here and talk and say all these
Speaker 4: fancy words if I can't actually do this shit. And
Speaker 4: very much so he's like that, so he definitely knows
Speaker 4: what he's talking about. Now. Currently, I'm working on a system.
Speaker 4: I'm working on a on a follow up, a sequel
Speaker 4: to Etheric Magic. It's called the title is tentatively called
Speaker 4: the Luminous Body, and it's going to get into the
Speaker 4: more advanced and esoteric practices. Etheric Magic was an introduction
Speaker 4: to get people working, and you have every tool in
Speaker 4: that book to develop your skill to the point where
Speaker 4: you'd be ready for this this this second installment. But
Speaker 4: I'm I'm working on a system that utilizes those concentric
Speaker 4: spheres instead of say something like the catalistic tree of life,
Speaker 4: which that's what I had to use for the first book,
Speaker 4: because that's what a lot of Western magicians. Now, I
Speaker 4: use the verbiage of alchemy and the and the tree
Speaker 4: of life, and we can, you know, if we have time,
Speaker 4: we can get into that tonight too, and give people
Speaker 4: a little bit of an overview of the the nuts
Speaker 4: and bolts.
Speaker 2: Nice. Nice. One thing I did want to ask that
Speaker 2: I noticed one thing I may oh, go ahead, go ahead,
Speaker 2: go ahead.
Speaker 10: I'm gonna say one thing I want to add here.
Speaker 9: Like a lot of points make good points, but one
Speaker 9: thing maybe nic to see as well as Again, we
Speaker 9: are always talking about the body itself, right, like all
Speaker 9: the magic, all everything is like from the inside, not
Speaker 9: necessarily the physical body, it can be as well, but
Speaker 9: the actual body. And it's interesting to see. For example,
Speaker 9: when you go into uh you were talking about Kardak
Speaker 9: from Mesmer, like Kardak and so on. In spiritism, they're
Speaker 9: going to talk about ectoplasm. So again this idea that
Speaker 9: you kind of have this energy that the people from
Speaker 9: the outside, you know, the spirits or whatever, they need
Speaker 9: this ectoplasm to do stuff here, to like do the
Speaker 9: pultry guys stuff or two even like interact and to
Speaker 9: kind of keep your ravagants. One then you go into
Speaker 9: the Alaska traditions, and well, first of all, it's funny
Speaker 9: you were talking about star wars. They call it the strength.
Speaker 9: In Aluaska they call the state that you get the
Speaker 9: strength like in Portees Forsa. So again that's very funny already.
Speaker 9: But they also say because it kind of relates, at
Speaker 9: least nowadays with a bit of like umbanda and this
Speaker 9: kind of things. They always talk about like opening paths.
Speaker 9: So opening paths, opening paths. And I was in a
Speaker 9: session like a ritual these these past days, and I
Speaker 9: had this in my mind that where we're talking about paths,
Speaker 9: like literal paths in the body, like we're literally talking
Speaker 9: about the endctrine system in the body. That's what's being opened.
Speaker 9: It's not some mystical you know, some some doors like
Speaker 9: that's literally it, or like the neuropaths in the brain,
Speaker 9: and so and so again. So I was talking about
Speaker 9: this energy of the of the body. And you can
Speaker 9: feel with the when you are in the in the state,
Speaker 9: let's say, of the ententogen you can literally you can
Speaker 9: feel it's kind of like a kickstart, right. You can
Speaker 9: obviously do it with all the practices like what probably
Speaker 9: there's all over like book, but with the thing, you
Speaker 9: just have like a kickstart and you are able to
Speaker 9: see it, to feel it to whatever, and it's just
Speaker 9: as amazing as as it can get you know, the
Speaker 9: understanding this and understanding that. Again it's all already within inside,
Speaker 9: and then you the more you get coherence into what
Speaker 9: you are imagining, feeling, thinking and doing, then the emotions.
Speaker 9: The more things realize, the more things work. And it's
Speaker 9: getting like faster and faster. The only two guys to
Speaker 9: like that as well. But I've been hearing with like
Speaker 9: fears and just like fearing out by paying intention to
Speaker 9: my own stuff. It's getting faster and fast. Like you
Speaker 9: imagine something, you think about it, you have the feeling boom,
Speaker 9: it happens like it's next day, things turning hoadays what
Speaker 9: maybe it used to take a couple of weeks months,
Speaker 9: and it's again you've got to take control of the thing.
Speaker 10: You gotta understand what you're doing, otherwise you may go everywhere.
Speaker 4: So yeah, and it's the So the way that I
Speaker 4: like to talk about it is in terms of like
Speaker 4: that the double sided coin sort of thing, where the
Speaker 4: physical opening of the pathways let's say like something like
Speaker 4: the limbic system or you know, the all of the
Speaker 4: endercurrent system. There's certainly that happening, I would say, also,
Speaker 4: though it's there's no there is no physical cause without
Speaker 4: a spiritual effect, a metaphysical effect, and vice versa. So
Speaker 4: when you are entering these spaces, I it certainly is
Speaker 4: with within. Do I think that it is within the
Speaker 4: physical organ of the brain. Absolutely not. I think it
Speaker 4: is within the personal meso cosm or microcosm. A meso
Speaker 4: cosm is I am the I am the mediator between
Speaker 4: Heaven and Earth. I am the middle cosmos. You know,
Speaker 4: this is this is big in in in that there
Speaker 4: are there are you know, chiegung movements of uniting Heaven
Speaker 4: and Earth, and there's a lot of that talk of
Speaker 4: of of you know, the station of the human being
Speaker 4: is the bridge between those worlds. And and that is
Speaker 4: our interface, is our nervous system, is our indecrine system.
Speaker 4: Is it's everything we have. It's the physical body, it's
Speaker 4: the emotions, it's the energetic body. It's so as you're saying,
Speaker 4: you talk about it in terms of coherence, that's really
Speaker 4: what's happening, is that everything is kicking in and working
Speaker 4: in in in synchrony. Whereas you in our modern world,
Speaker 4: that's it's a very challenging thing to have happened without
Speaker 4: you putting immense amounts of effort into it, but so
Speaker 4: many things that are that are taking you, you know,
Speaker 4: your attention, your focus, your connection to your body, and
Speaker 4: trying to rip all those things apart, separate them, sever them.
Speaker 4: And this is this is a movement towards the center.
Speaker 4: It's almost you can think of it like a planet
Speaker 4: that has exploded. Okay, now you your job, as the
Speaker 4: exploded planet is somehow to generate that central force of
Speaker 4: gravity that pulls all the pieces back together and heals
Speaker 4: what was formerly whole and is now you know, diffuse
Speaker 4: and and and and disparate. So but I think that
Speaker 4: that's a really good point, Matt, because I get the question, well,
Speaker 4: what is it doing the met Well, for for me,
Speaker 4: it's you know, somebody will come to me that does
Speaker 4: like goetic magic or some kind of you know, let's
Speaker 4: say magic of the PGM solomonic to say, well, no,
Speaker 4: the spirits, I don't consecrate a talis, then the spirit's
Speaker 4: consecrated for me. And so then it's like, yeah, well, okay,
Speaker 4: so you're working on an exogynous level, which is fine
Speaker 4: because that's how you're interacting with the phenomena around you.
Speaker 4: But that doesn't mean that that you know, the energy
Speaker 4: that you're working with is not the operative mechanism, because
Speaker 4: at the end of the day, think of this, when
Speaker 4: a spirit comes, right, spirit comes and to consecrate your
Speaker 4: talisman or to make a pact with you or something,
Speaker 4: does it open up the door and walk in and
Speaker 4: sit itself down and shake your hand the way I
Speaker 4: would if I or if you you came into my
Speaker 4: library and I sat you know, No, that's not how
Speaker 4: that happens. How it happens is by various methods. You
Speaker 4: can see the mind of the eye can project something
Speaker 4: into the room. You could use fluid condensers, mirrors, incense, smoke,
Speaker 4: there can be all sorts of tells and things like that.
Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, you are using
Speaker 4: what the great you know, teacher, and and I would
Speaker 4: I would call this guy a you know, an ultimate magician.
Speaker 4: David Rankin he uses the term gateway image. You're creating
Speaker 4: a gateway image that that that so that you can
Speaker 4: interact with what is in a disembodied intelligence, which is
Speaker 4: another way of saying energy. Right, if nothing were left
Speaker 4: of me but my consciousness, that's still a form of
Speaker 4: energy that can't be destroyed, can only be transformed. So
Speaker 4: so this is this where we are working with intelligent energies.
Speaker 4: We are working with there is an exogynous and an
Speaker 4: endogenous component to it. The key is you have to
Speaker 4: be that mediator you have. That's the whole point this
Speaker 4: shit is to get you to train to be the mediator.
Speaker 4: And you know, do you have to buy theory magic
Speaker 4: in order to do that?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 4: Do you have to get initiated by the Golden Dawn
Speaker 4: to do that?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 4: But there I would say that you need some kind
Speaker 4: of system. You know, you need somebody to teach you
Speaker 4: a system. Yeah.
Speaker 8: Nice. And what's fascinating is when you say that, I know,
Speaker 8: Heideger hostoral. These phenomenologists probably would have never thought that
Speaker 8: this conversation would be happening. But it's one of those
Speaker 8: things where it's like, that is the phenomenological experience instead
Speaker 8: of the cartesian, mechanistic, functionalistic postmodern nonsense which we've fallen into.
Speaker 8: And so the consciousness and tending it upon itself, which
Speaker 8: is fascinating in and of itself.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm one of the things that I had to do.
Speaker 4: I gave this talk to know at Watkins in London.
Speaker 4: So obviously there's gonna be a lot of magicians there,
Speaker 4: people that are flu into this stuff. But I also
Speaker 4: gave it a like philosophical research society, which is it's
Speaker 4: not you know, that's it's you don't know who you're
Speaker 4: gonna get in in in that, but it's that's not
Speaker 4: just a disparaging remark, but there's not a lot of
Speaker 4: magicians out in that neck of the woods that are
Speaker 4: that aren't you know, associated with other things like music
Speaker 4: and modern like you're saying, Cartesian rooted philosophy. So then
Speaker 4: how do you explain magic to them? And so, you know,
Speaker 4: there's obviously right Crowley's definition, which is a classic which
Speaker 4: he derived from some of the early founders of the
Speaker 4: Golden Dawn Dionfortune took it and you know, causing change
Speaker 4: to occur in conformity with the will. Yes, absolutely, but
Speaker 4: that's anything. And Crowley addresses that, you know, he says,
Speaker 4: like everything is ultimately an act of magic. Yes, but
Speaker 4: is that what we're really talking about when we're talking
Speaker 4: about magic.
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 1: Uh So I.
Speaker 4: Found a way to define it that I'm going to
Speaker 4: just throw out there to you guys, and you could,
Speaker 4: you know, toss it in the trash or throw it.
Speaker 8: Back at me.
Speaker 4: But for the purposes of explaining to these audiences what
Speaker 4: I meant by magic, As I I said, it's where
Speaker 4: the phenomenology of consciousness and metaphysical causality intersect. It's where
Speaker 4: your your mind, your consciousness, and metaphysical causality, you are
Speaker 4: causing things to happen. Not because I went to the
Speaker 4: fountain and poured myself a drink of water. That's that's
Speaker 4: not how magic works. There is no This is why
Speaker 4: it's called a cultum. Occultum vertutais is the Latin that
Speaker 4: a grip of used occultum related to oculus in the eye,
Speaker 4: occultum hidden from the site, qualities that are hidden from
Speaker 4: the site. Because this causality is nonlinear, it's metaphysical, it's
Speaker 4: not physical. You can't see why it happens. You will
Speaker 4: definitely see the delivery mechanism. But the fact that I
Speaker 4: did a Venusian ritual and then got a date later
Speaker 4: that day, you know, it's you know, it's like, come on,
Speaker 4: come on, some of these things defy statistical probability, you know.
Speaker 6: So I actually have a legit question for Ike. But
Speaker 6: first let me give him a little shit because when
Speaker 6: David Rankin came on. I asked him the exact same
Speaker 6: question I asked you, like the first time you came
Speaker 6: on about how to reconcile the outer three planets with
Speaker 6: Rahukatu as well as on the Kabalistic tree for Ketter,
Speaker 6: Hookema and DApp And he was actually very not only
Speaker 6: comfortable with my attributions, he was he actually used them.
Speaker 6: So I just want to say that, I just want
Speaker 6: to say that it wasn't just me coming up with that,
Speaker 6: but anyways, Okay, no, I mean no respect.
Speaker 4: I hope you didn't think I was giving you shit
Speaker 4: for it.
Speaker 9: I don't know.
Speaker 4: I can't help don't work in that milieu.
Speaker 2: One hundred percent, understand.
Speaker 6: I just wanted to say that since you brought up David,
Speaker 6: I also respect him very greatly, and I think he
Speaker 6: is a master magician.
Speaker 2: And I just I just I gave him the same thing.
Speaker 2: I didn't. I didn't hold back. I just want to
Speaker 2: say that, so well, David, did I respect you as much?
Speaker 2: I respect you as much.
Speaker 4: I just say David is a man who is first
Speaker 4: of all, brilliant, and he's also I would consider David
Speaker 4: an extremely well educated and cultured man.
Speaker 6: So you know, I am not those things, but I
Speaker 6: do want to ask you about something I really don't
Speaker 6: know anything about, which is the Egyptian sort of soul complexes.
Speaker 6: I know you have a whole section in the book
Speaker 6: about kW soul. I don't know anything like zero percent,
Speaker 6: So anything you say will be completely new to me.
Speaker 6: I'm sure new for a lot of people listening as well.
Speaker 6: So if you just want to like give like a
Speaker 6: brief overview of what sort of the conceptualizations of those
Speaker 6: things are and maybe even for like my monkey brain level,
Speaker 6: if you could. But I'll take a little I'll take
Speaker 6: intermediate as well. But I mean, I'm I'm just saying
Speaker 6: that I don't know anything about it. I can sew
Speaker 6: anything you say will be sort of first time and
Speaker 6: also in lightning cool.
Speaker 4: Then I can bullshit you now I'm kim joking.
Speaker 5: Uh I.
Speaker 4: So there were there were at least at least nine
Speaker 4: parts of the self. Not all of them were the soul,
Speaker 4: but nine parts of the totality, the holistic totality, the organism,
Speaker 4: at least at a minimum in the ancient Egyptian system.
Speaker 4: We get this from various texts and the way that
Speaker 4: they describe, uh, the really the funerary texts and the
Speaker 4: way that they described the dissolution of of the whole,
Speaker 4: the the the body, the shadow, even your shadow leaves
Speaker 4: like in Peter Pan. So it's it's it's quite interesting.
Speaker 4: So the parts that are most relevant two the discussion
Speaker 4: of etheric magic, because I list the nine and I
Speaker 4: give their definitions in the book. The ones that are
Speaker 4: the most relevant for etheric magic, I would say are
Speaker 4: the Ba and the Ka, and these are respectively, the soul, right,
Speaker 4: the soul is the Ba and the Ka is the double.
Speaker 4: It's it's the uh what they were conceiving of as
Speaker 4: as kind of a wraith, a ghost of specifically Pharaoh.
Speaker 4: He was the only one who was thought to in
Speaker 4: the in the early kingdom, you know the they, uh,
Speaker 4: they didn't think it wasn't until you get the Coffin texts,
Speaker 4: which I think is the second intermediate period that there's
Speaker 4: this democratization of like, okay, everyone gets to live in eternity.
Speaker 8: You know.
Speaker 4: It's they thought it was just the Pharaoh for thousands
Speaker 4: of years, so the whole whole project was okay, when
Speaker 4: Pharaoh's body dies, and that's effectively the anchor point that's
Speaker 4: holding all this shit together. When that dissolves, everything's going
Speaker 4: to get released. How do we guide that stuff? What
Speaker 4: do we do with that stuff to help him reach eternity?
Speaker 4: And the ba was conceived of as a bird, a
Speaker 4: hawk or a falcon really, with the head of whoever
Speaker 4: had died, the facial features the head of whoever had died,
Speaker 4: and it could you know, soar aloft, which is a
Speaker 4: way of saying that. First of all, you know, it's
Speaker 4: the same thing in terms of like astral travel, the
Speaker 4: soul can leave and come back to the body, so
Speaker 4: on and so forth. But it's a way of talking
Speaker 4: about that. What I would say the inherent nature of
Speaker 4: levity in the soul, the soul being able to rise
Speaker 4: after death, whereas the energetic body not necessarily it needs
Speaker 4: to be. There are requirements to keep that thing going.
Speaker 4: Now for people that have you know, sometimes I'll get shipped,
Speaker 4: and rightfully so, people will say, well, the term soul
Speaker 4: is not well defined. I'm going to define the term
Speaker 4: soul for you. According to the Hellenistic tradition, the Greco
Speaker 4: Roman Egyptian tradition, the ancients of the world would have
Speaker 4: meant the totality of your interior experience is your soul.
Speaker 4: Your thoughts, your emotions, your ideas, your fears, your subtle image,
Speaker 4: your personal available imagery, your memories, all of that is
Speaker 4: a part of your soul, which is why in Greek
Speaker 4: the word for soul is seek right, and that's the
Speaker 4: root of the word psychology. But they believed that all
Speaker 4: that continued on after the body died. That was virtually
Speaker 4: the only difference between our modern psychology and the soul
Speaker 4: in a lot of ways. So really the ca was
Speaker 4: how I introduced this idea. This has to do with
Speaker 4: what Matt was saying, kind of like about ectoplasm. So
Speaker 4: the whole premise of etheric magic is not so much. Oh,
Speaker 4: I wanted to do an energy system. I wanted to
Speaker 4: make somebody. We already have it, but most magicians don't
Speaker 4: know that we're using it. You know, when you do
Speaker 4: something in the Golden Dawn or and I'm sure it's
Speaker 4: similar in the AA and OTO versions, you do the
Speaker 4: projection signs, you know you're you're moving energy towards something.
Speaker 4: There's a reason why when you consecrate a talisman, whether
Speaker 4: that be a ring or something you place your hand
Speaker 4: over it. Okay, it's you're why you're projecting something outside
Speaker 4: of you, outside of your body, you are able to
Speaker 4: that's once you've linked that up and you learn how
Speaker 4: to intelligently use it, you can extract it the way
Speaker 4: Matt was talking about, how these spirits need to borrow
Speaker 4: the ectoplasm, to borrow the ether from other people in
Speaker 4: order to manifest. This is a huge part of like
Speaker 4: the theory of seances, which were the table turning events
Speaker 4: that were, like, you know, everybody was freaking out about
Speaker 4: trying to explain with kilner screens and all sorts of
Speaker 4: wacky shit.
Speaker 1: But.
Speaker 4: This is effectively what we do in magic when we consecrate,
Speaker 4: you know. And the word spirit speedyoose in Latin, it
Speaker 4: means the same thing as benevma or numa in Greek,
Speaker 4: or prana or chi or rua, and it means that
Speaker 4: that same thing. So again there's that spirit versus energy connection. Now,
Speaker 4: there's a scholar that I referenced in the book and
Speaker 4: she did some research, and I have the citation in
Speaker 4: there for anybody that wants to take a look at it.
Speaker 4: I'm not going to tell you the name because I
Speaker 4: want you to buy the book, go check it out.
Speaker 4: She has a bit of research talking about how this
Speaker 4: term Heca, the Egyptian word for magic, the Egyptian god
Speaker 4: of magic, Heckca, is related to the term ka, this energy,
Speaker 4: this this sort of wraithy double and how the the
Speaker 4: the word heca can be translated as using the ka,
Speaker 4: so using the car. Right when we talk about how alphas,
Speaker 4: Levy was talking about how the asualt is the magical agent,
Speaker 4: it's what accomplishes the magic. We talk about talismanic consecration.
Speaker 4: You're sending the energy. Uh, this kind of stuff. Well, uh,
Speaker 4: there there's some evidence, scholarly evidence to support that this
Speaker 4: was also uh in a different way. I wouldn't say rudimentary,
Speaker 4: but I would say in a different way of conceiving
Speaker 4: of it than than we might but very similar in
Speaker 4: the ancient Egyptian and Hellenistic period as well. This this
Speaker 4: idea of Hekka using the ka, using that that that uh,
Speaker 4: the what we understand now as the energetic body, that
Speaker 4: that remains when the soul leaves. Now, what do they
Speaker 4: do with the comp They put it in a statue
Speaker 4: and they fed it. What did I say before? When
Speaker 4: you can see this stuff. It's not imaginary. There is
Speaker 4: a very subtle physical component. We can't fully define it,
Speaker 4: but there is a physicality to it. So, particularly in
Speaker 4: the work at John Michael Greer. It's a funny title,
Speaker 4: and John's a lovely man, but the book Monsters is
Speaker 4: infucking dispensable to anybody that wants to learn about this stuff.
Speaker 4: He talks about all of this stuff, the ancient traditions
Speaker 4: of the Chinese, traditions of hungry ghosts, the idea, the
Speaker 4: rudimentary ideas, the roots of where the concepts of vampirism
Speaker 4: zombies come from. It all has to do with this
Speaker 4: etheric ca, this double this race like thing that then
Speaker 4: needs to feed to stay alive because it's associated with
Speaker 4: the physical body. This is what they call it. And
Speaker 4: the more that thing is hungry and wants to stay
Speaker 4: alive after the soul leaves and the body dies, the
Speaker 4: more intrusive and intense its presence can be.
Speaker 9: And so.
Speaker 4: For the Pharaoh, they put it in a statue and
Speaker 4: they fed it and they treated it with royalty like
Speaker 4: royalty to keep his ca alive. Now, in magic, you know,
Speaker 4: that's not what I'm teaching people to do. That form
Speaker 4: of strange, you know, raith necromancy. It's just more so
Speaker 4: while you are alive, you learning how to use that
Speaker 4: etheric energy in magic, which means too. There's three phases.
Speaker 4: The first is to link. You must link it. You'd
Speaker 4: link with it, link your conscious mind to it, because
Speaker 4: until you've done that, it's completely latent and it's constantly
Speaker 4: receiving impressions, so you are much more impressionable. Before you
Speaker 4: link your you will have thoughts that you thought were yours.
Speaker 4: You know, you will be very, very susceptible to influence
Speaker 4: and manipulation. This is what they call personal magnetism, right
Speaker 4: when when somebody can manipulate and influence they call that
Speaker 4: personal magnetism. It's not because people are magnetized to them.
Speaker 4: It comes from the idea of animal magnetism that you
Speaker 4: can exert that force over somebody and render them latent, receptive.
Speaker 4: So the first precaution, the first hygienic measure, is to
Speaker 4: link your mind to your etheric body. How do you
Speaker 4: do that? Well, I teach you. The first thing you
Speaker 4: have to do is learn to see it and feel it,
Speaker 4: And I give exercises and texts and all of that
Speaker 4: kind of stuff for not just the visual component, but
Speaker 4: the tactile component of being able to sense and feel it.
Speaker 4: And again, I've done this in workshops and I'm astounded
Speaker 4: at how successful it's been in person with with groups
Speaker 4: of people I've never met before. So uh, then the
Speaker 4: second part is to to to move and cultivate. That's
Speaker 4: just that's chigung, right, is the cultivation of chi in
Speaker 4: the certain centers of the body. Now in in Chinese
Speaker 4: medicine and dallas Uh, you know energy theory, you have
Speaker 4: three main centers, the dantien, and they correspond to the
Speaker 4: cavities of your body. Okay, low dantien down here, the
Speaker 4: middle danteen. We also call these the sanjao, the triple burners.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 4: These are called the horrors, the the diamonds in in
Speaker 4: or the horrors in in reiki in the Japanese energy system.
Speaker 4: So what do I correspond those three two salt, sulfur
Speaker 4: and mercury. We're doing alchemy. Okay, the the the the
Speaker 4: sulfur component is in the upper dantia.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 4: The salt obviously is in the low danti en. That's
Speaker 4: called the the cauldron of elixir. That's where all your
Speaker 4: vitality in life is longevity those things. There's a point
Speaker 4: on the back. I think it's ming men. Ming men, Yeah,
Speaker 4: ming men. I think it's do four and it's they
Speaker 4: gets right between the adrenals and slightly lower on the spine,
Speaker 4: and it's the ming men translates to a gait of
Speaker 4: the fire of life. So there's there's the salt, and
Speaker 4: then there's the mercury component. Why is mercury in the middle.
Speaker 4: A lot of westernso terroists are gonna be confused. Mercury
Speaker 4: is the consciousness in language like, oh, sit down for
Speaker 4: a second. Mercury is the mediator. Mercury is the medial point, okay,
Speaker 4: and we are always no matter what we're leading with.
Speaker 4: Even in Western magic, what do you do when you
Speaker 4: when you do the middle pillar, or when you do
Speaker 4: God form work, or when you work the tree of
Speaker 4: life in the Sirri sensation, you always center the last
Speaker 4: thing you do, you center that energy into farith. It
Speaker 4: has to end here because this is the medial space,
Speaker 4: and this is how to live heart heart forward. And
Speaker 4: you know they say in Chinese medicine, the shen lives
Speaker 4: in the heart, the spirit of the person lives in
Speaker 4: the heart. It resides in the heart. You can see
Speaker 4: it in their eyes. The shen is visible through there.
Speaker 4: The quality of their spirit is visible in their eyes,
Speaker 4: but it resides in the heart. So I conceive of
Speaker 4: effectively the cultivation, the movement and cultivation of this energy
Speaker 4: in these three main middle pillar power points. And then
Speaker 4: on top of that, I do use the tree of
Speaker 4: life in the sphere of sensation and be why because
Speaker 4: it's readily available, ready made. People know this stuff. It's great,
Speaker 4: it works well, it's easy to use. As the time tested,
Speaker 4: we're moving and storing the energy and building it up
Speaker 4: based on those things. And then finally the last piece
Speaker 4: is to project it. So you've linked up, you've learned
Speaker 4: how to of it, you've cultivated it in your spirit sensation.
Speaker 4: Now you've got to learn how to use this for magic.
Speaker 4: And that's probably like the last third of the book.
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's that's actually fascinating, that whole connection to then
Speaker 8: how you're how like you teach, how I teach taichi
Speaker 8: chigung and all these different integrations of things, Because the
Speaker 8: last is understanding when somebody's coming up against you, how
Speaker 8: to use everything you just said to then move somebody,
Speaker 8: because taichi is not just the internal art, it's also
Speaker 8: the external warrior thing where when yoused properly, you can
Speaker 8: be just you could be a badass wrestler at the
Speaker 8: same way, because if you can't be moved from your foundation,
Speaker 8: because all those things are now linked up into that
Speaker 8: lower foundational Dantean it's great nice.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, but I'm pretty sure they call that rooting, right,
Speaker 4: part of that rooting, part of rooting, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: I mean it's there's so much that can be done.
Speaker 4: You want to work on vision work, you want to
Speaker 4: work on memory work, you want to work on U power.
Speaker 4: You work with the sulfur center, you know, but you're
Speaker 4: at the end. You want to work on physical health,
Speaker 4: energy longevity. You work with the salt center. You're always
Speaker 4: centering everything in the middle, right, because mercury is the androgene.
Speaker 4: Mercury can it has both sulfur and salt in it.
Speaker 4: That's what make it. That's mercury is the combination. It's
Speaker 4: like for anybody that play that plays music. If I
Speaker 4: were just to play, let's say on a guitar, you know,
Speaker 4: I play a root in a fifth, just two notes
Speaker 4: and I pluck them together. Those two notes are gonna
Speaker 4: sound and their vibrations are going to create what we
Speaker 4: call an overtone, a third note that I didn't play.
Speaker 4: I did not play that, but it emerges from the
Speaker 4: blending of the two notes I did play. It's the
Speaker 4: same thing with mercury. Mercury is both, so it can
Speaker 4: be more of one more of the other. But his
Speaker 4: main job is to be centered and to contain both
Speaker 4: and equalize them, equilibrate them. So yeah, there's a lot.
Speaker 4: There's a lot of that. There's rooting, there's I use it,
Speaker 4: you know. I have postures that we use for scrying.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 4: It's it's pretty it's pretty intense. Thing is though, I
Speaker 4: do want to give credit where credit is due.
Speaker 2: I would.
Speaker 4: They really pushed me. My editor, Heather Green at lleu
Speaker 4: Ellen was fantastic, and she really pushed me after the
Speaker 4: first read of the book to to give give everything
Speaker 4: I got, GIVEU put it all down, give us more,
Speaker 4: give us more, you know, because you're always a little hesitant,
Speaker 4: do I should there be something for me like that?
Speaker 9: I don't.
Speaker 4: But at the end of the day, you know, if
Speaker 4: you're going to do something like this and you're going
Speaker 4: to offer this to the world. You got to just
Speaker 4: go the full monty.
Speaker 1: But and on that.
Speaker 4: I know I'm dragging on a little bit here, But
Speaker 4: there is a funny story that I really want to tell,
Speaker 4: if you'll, if you'll, let me tell about how how
Speaker 4: how this book came about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure.
Speaker 5: So.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 4: In twenty twenty three, Evo Dominguez Junior invited me to
Speaker 4: uh the Sacred Space between the World Conference, which is Maryland. Okay,
Speaker 4: I'm speaking there again this year and this month. Actually,
Speaker 4: oh wow, a good thing. I reminded myself that I
Speaker 4: gotta prepare, but I'm going there in like fourteen days.
Speaker 4: But I went in twenty twenty three, and he only
Speaker 4: gave me a handful of days notice. He's like, look,
Speaker 4: I know this is short notice, but come on up
Speaker 4: if you can make it. So I had to ask
Speaker 4: off from work. I took a car up, got there late,
Speaker 4: so I didn't get to go to the first night
Speaker 4: of the presentations. By text, I'm going to go into
Speaker 4: my hotel room. I'll see in the morning.
Speaker 2: I show up.
Speaker 4: I get there in the morning and the first door
Speaker 4: has a line outside of it, and I go up
Speaker 4: and I look at the schedule and it says five
Speaker 4: minutes to pitch a book idea to a Llewellyn editor,
Speaker 4: And I was like, holy shit, I didn't even know
Speaker 4: you could do that. I didn't know if this is
Speaker 4: what people did at conferences. I sit down and you
Speaker 4: just listen to somebody, you know, but they're always sourcing ideas.
Speaker 4: So I'm like, yeah, I'll do this, I'll get online.
Speaker 4: I got hopped online, you know. Then the line starts dwindling.
Speaker 4: I'm getting closer to the door and I realize I
Speaker 4: don't have an idea, Like I just kind of jumped
Speaker 4: on this line and nuts, that's me. You know, if
Speaker 4: you ask my fiancee, Nicole should be the first to
Speaker 4: tell you that I am all you know, I'm all
Speaker 4: about just if somebody suggests we go for a swim,
Speaker 4: all the normal people go and they change into their
Speaker 4: their bathing trunks and I am fully clothed, you know,
Speaker 4: like one hundred yards out already drowning, drowning. But so
Speaker 4: I jumped on and I'm getting nervous because there's like
Speaker 4: one more person. I'm like, what the hell am I
Speaker 4: going to tell this person? And it just pops into
Speaker 4: my head, like Hey, gummy, you know what about the
Speaker 4: stuff that you've been doing for like almost ten years
Speaker 4: now with the Eastern and the Western stuff. Why don't
Speaker 4: you pitch this idea to her? And uh, I came
Speaker 4: up with the title and everything, and I went in.
Speaker 4: I pitched the idea and she's like, it sounds good.
Speaker 4: Send me your first chapter and an introduction. And I'm like, okay,
Speaker 4: I'll do that. And I left that room and I
Speaker 4: went to the cafeteria and I just I wrote the
Speaker 4: first chapter and the introduction and I sent it to
Speaker 4: her and then uh yeah, and then then the rest
Speaker 4: was history. And that was my first book deal.
Speaker 8: So it's.
Speaker 4: To me, there's something synchronistic and providential about it too,
Speaker 4: So it's very special project for me.
Speaker 2: That's wild Ship make Good for you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's and because of the lack of fear. That
Speaker 3: may never happened if you had the fear of not
Speaker 3: getting a longing.
Speaker 4: Well, really, I blame Evo, which is why I asked
Speaker 4: him to write the forward, because like he there's just
Speaker 4: something about him. He just he just knows which strings
Speaker 4: to pull. I don't know that he knows why, but
Speaker 4: he knows what to pull and when and it just
Speaker 4: and everything. You know, it is a true true magician.
Speaker 9: H I wanted to ask something since you briefly talked
Speaker 9: about it, and I think I've follow something on Instagram once,
Speaker 9: maybe on on a class of yours or something like
Speaker 9: the usage of music in these kind of things, like
Speaker 9: how do you if maybe you have that on the
Speaker 9: book or or something.
Speaker 10: But I find like music fascinating.
Speaker 4: So there's a there is there's a chapter.
Speaker 2: Again.
Speaker 4: That's because you know, my editor was just kind of like,
Speaker 4: give us a chapter on sound and and and and
Speaker 4: I okay, sure, let's do it. There are different tones
Speaker 4: uh and vowel and consonant combinations.
Speaker 10: I used.
Speaker 4: Primarily the introductory ones have more to do with the
Speaker 4: right salt, sulfur, and mercury being the three uh sounds
Speaker 4: of the mother letters of the in the Seffroyette Sira
Speaker 4: right uh. So the sulfur centerted corresponds to the sibilance,
Speaker 4: which is that kind of sound. Then the salt center
Speaker 4: corresponds to you know, the letter mem and the element
Speaker 4: of water that's silent, so it's more of a this
Speaker 4: kind of thing, and then air being in the middle.
Speaker 4: Mercury is as we say in the gold on the
Speaker 4: tongue of balance betwixt them. So that's more of just
Speaker 4: an awe type of thing, getting to feel it in
Speaker 4: the chest. And part of this is developing the magical
Speaker 4: voice and feeling getting these cavities to vibrate their cavities,
Speaker 4: you know, and get feeling that somatically the levels of
Speaker 4: vibration and being able to do that. In terms of music,
Speaker 4: there's a lot. I just I'm wrapping up. We're doing
Speaker 4: our last session of the Music as Magic course. I
Speaker 4: did a seven module course. The modules are I mean,
Speaker 4: most of them were over two and a half hours long,
Speaker 4: and I really run the gamut of musical applications in
Speaker 4: that it will be available for for for anybody that
Speaker 4: wants to purchase it. I you know, we I've recorded
Speaker 4: all of these. They come with presentation slides. They come
Speaker 4: with custom syllabi syllabuses that I write for each course,
Speaker 4: So anybody's interested in that, reach out to me at
Speaker 4: Ikebaker dot com. There's a little chat widget on the
Speaker 4: bottom right hand corner of the screen and whatever you
Speaker 4: type in there will come to my personal inbox. So A,
Speaker 4: be nice and B if you want to know more
Speaker 4: about this this particular course, write me there and I've
Speaker 4: got another one coming up in March two.
Speaker 8: His courses are amazing. I have taken two of them.
Speaker 8: Ike Baker's The Man and he goes super deep. So
Speaker 8: I'm telling you live review. Ikes courses are awesome.
Speaker 2: Take it.
Speaker 4: Thank you, Thanks, I I'll send the money later.
Speaker 8: Yeah, seven thousand.
Speaker 3: Something I didn't want to ask you that I noticed
Speaker 3: with some chapters in your book, and I thought that
Speaker 3: there are just from my own experience, of my own practices.
Speaker 3: I thought it was something that's very important for me.
Speaker 3: It was important for me. I noticed you have stuff
Speaker 3: on breath, breath work, and visualizations.
Speaker 2: Yeah, why do you? Why do you include those in
Speaker 2: the book? Obviously you must.
Speaker 4: All of all of these words chi, prana, ru, spiritousevma,
Speaker 4: they all related to They all mean breath. They also
Speaker 4: mean other things, but they all mean breath, you know,
Speaker 4: or wind, this kind of thing, vapor, et cetera, so
Speaker 4: on and so forth. But but explicitly, you know, spiritousee, penevma,
Speaker 4: all of these these words prana this means breath. So
Speaker 4: why well, first of all, ether, this quintessence, this pure
Speaker 4: sort of you know, radiant new luminosity, that that everything
Speaker 4: that is sort of radiating off of our density. Or
Speaker 4: really a lot of people think it's actually holding us
Speaker 4: together rather than radiating off of us. But that's a
Speaker 4: whole different conversation. They've always in many, many traditions, it's
Speaker 4: always been related to air, it's been related to wind.
Speaker 4: And how you take it into your body is by breathing.
Speaker 4: And they say, why be right, because in the Golden
Speaker 4: Dawn we say breath is the evidence of life, and
Speaker 4: that that power, that inherent ether was associated with this
Speaker 4: idea of enlivening things. Right, matter is dead in and
Speaker 4: of itself, It's inert according to the classical worldview, the
Speaker 4: magical worldview, matter is cannot animate itself. So what is
Speaker 4: this thing that animates? Well, and you know, in various
Speaker 4: traditions they say soul, but really spirit penevma or as
Speaker 4: anglophone pronunciation would be numa numa. This, this pneumatic substance
Speaker 4: enlivens everything. And and in some systems, like there's a
Speaker 4: book called the The Day Spring of Youth, and there's
Speaker 4: a bunch of stuff in the theosophical writings to talk
Speaker 4: about these practices of breathing in and extracting the prana
Speaker 4: from the air. Really, for me, I don't subscribe to
Speaker 4: that so much as I do this idea that it's
Speaker 4: more along the lines of like what I learned in
Speaker 4: you know Chen, which is Chinese version of Zen. Effectively
Speaker 4: Chen practices meditative practices, is there is a direct relationship
Speaker 4: between the breath and the energy and a lot of it.
Speaker 4: This is the very most basic, the most basic way
Speaker 4: of conceiving. It is the way that one of the
Speaker 4: fundamental ways that you learn to link up and move
Speaker 4: the energy is by using the breath as a guide. Now,
Speaker 4: it's kind of like in the Golden Dawn where you
Speaker 4: do the lesser ritual of the pentagram and you trace
Speaker 4: the pentagrams, right, you're tracing the pentagrams to aid you
Speaker 4: in your visualization, to get you know, Mena Mathers or
Speaker 4: Morena Mathers. She actually you get a lot of modern
Speaker 4: practitioners in the Golden and they very militaristic, you know,
Speaker 4: kind of but Mena Mathers actually taught her students, like
Speaker 4: the Unfortune when she was in the Alpha at Omega,
Speaker 4: to go very slowly because the most important thing is
Speaker 4: the symmetry. So in the same way that you're training
Speaker 4: your mind by aid of this physical gesture in using
Speaker 4: the breath, the fourfold breath and things like this and
Speaker 4: belly breathing, horror breathing, Dantean breath and this kind of stuff,
Speaker 4: you're training your mind to move this energy. Eventually, you
Speaker 4: don't need to do that specific type of breathe thing
Speaker 4: all the time. But in my experience is that when
Speaker 4: I do the breath, I mean it's immedia and it's
Speaker 4: much more powerful, you know. So, uh, there is uh
Speaker 4: that that that synchronization between the mind, the breath, the undulations, right.
Speaker 4: I call that the personal somatic rhythm, the rhythm of
Speaker 4: your body. Right because when you when you slow your breathing,
Speaker 4: your heart slows with it. Everything is coming down everything
Speaker 4: you know, your your your your sympathetic nervous system, your
Speaker 4: parasympathetic nerdive with nervous system is is kicking in and
Speaker 4: and now you can Israel Reggoredy also talked about this
Speaker 4: at length, like if you are anxious and you can't
Speaker 4: relax your body, your mind, like you're not going to
Speaker 4: be able to move that energy, you know. Reggoredy was
Speaker 4: very much into thinking of this stuffs as these energies
Speaker 4: and and uh, that's why he wrote a book called
Speaker 4: The Art of Relaxation, you know, because it's such an
Speaker 4: important part of magic is to get everything to this
Speaker 4: very controlled and steady and still base level. So so
Speaker 4: you know, there's that now in my experience. Again, Jin
Speaker 4: could correct me, but in my experience, and I studied
Speaker 4: with with a Thaie practitioner, Chigung when I was doing
Speaker 4: my personal studies. I had a few Chinese instructors as
Speaker 4: well in school, but they were kind of more of
Speaker 4: on a rotating basis. But the way that I learned
Speaker 4: it was that the first thing you learn is the
Speaker 4: breathing in the postures in Chigo, Okay. You learn how
Speaker 4: to how to move with the breath. You learn how
Speaker 4: to move very slowly synchronously. You know that, you learn
Speaker 4: the forms and how they move and connect into each other,
Speaker 4: and you you learn the names of these forms. Right
Speaker 4: then at a certain point of development, you become what's
Speaker 4: called an inner door student, so that you're an outer
Speaker 4: door student for a while with these traditional guys, and
Speaker 4: it's they're not there too, you know. For customer satisfaction,
Speaker 4: you know, like, it's not customer service here. It's like
Speaker 4: you're going to learn what I tell you because you
Speaker 4: came and you sought me, and I like that a lot.
Speaker 4: I learn more from those people. So the Inner Door teachings. Now,
Speaker 4: once you've mastered the posture, the breath, the movements, the flow,
Speaker 4: the forms, then you get the visualizations and that's when
Speaker 4: you can do magic because it's it's it's all of
Speaker 4: those things in concert with that is effectively magic. You know,
Speaker 4: it's the same thing in the Western practice. So so yeah,
Speaker 4: that's that is very topically why I.
Speaker 7: Included all that stuff. It's a good question though. Thank
Speaker 7: you for asking, thank you for explaining. Yeah, I appreciate that.
Speaker 7: Anybody have any other questions, Frank keep.
Speaker 8: Going, yeah, yeah, of course. I So, oh then what
Speaker 8: is the true uh with this book? What was your
Speaker 8: main besides walking onto the line and all of a
Speaker 8: sudden you have a book deal? What was your main
Speaker 8: reason for this first one? Is it just because of
Speaker 8: that or did beforehand you were thinking about all these
Speaker 8: things and you're like, I've done this training here and
Speaker 8: now you know Western esoteric traditionals put it together into
Speaker 8: this book, and like what what is the real message
Speaker 8: you're trying to give to the people.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, it's it's just a product of what
Speaker 4: happened to me. I look at it like you play music, Well,
Speaker 4: you're the music you make and the music you put
Speaker 4: on an album. It's it's based off of the music
Speaker 4: you've listened to a right, So it's right in that way,
Speaker 4: you're you cannot create any new ingredients in music. In cooking,
Speaker 4: what you can do is you can take the ingredients
Speaker 4: and mix them together in your personal way, and they
Speaker 4: call that style, right, And so this is effectively what
Speaker 4: happened with the book. I I suffered a really really
Speaker 4: devastating life event that effectively it destroyed my life in
Speaker 4: a very short period of time, maybe like three months,
Speaker 4: and everything that I had built, uh, which is good, right,
Speaker 4: because of the House of Cards, it was horseshit. But
Speaker 4: at that point, that's when I decided to go back
Speaker 4: to the golden dawn that I had blown off and
Speaker 4: flaked out on. And at the same time I was
Speaker 4: I was I had to get out of bartending.
Speaker 2: I didn't I want to.
Speaker 4: I didn't want to be touring anymore. I didn't want
Speaker 4: to be working nights four o'clock in the morning in
Speaker 4: a bar in Manhattan. So I couldn't figure out what
Speaker 4: was going on. I was reading a book that somebody
Speaker 4: gave me. It was called Imagining the World into Existence.
Speaker 4: This is a book by Norman Dyellis, who actually is
Speaker 4: a wonderful lady and she's been on the podcast. I
Speaker 4: didn't know her back then, but there was an image
Speaker 4: in this book of somebody performing like what looked like massage.
Speaker 4: And I don't know why, but it just hit me like,
Speaker 4: I have to help people. That's where I need to go.
Speaker 10: Right.
Speaker 4: I served them alcohol. Now I have to serve them,
Speaker 4: you know, in something that's going to heal them instead
Speaker 4: of pick your poison. So I went into bodywork physiotherapy.
Speaker 4: Took me a little while to find my footing figure
Speaker 4: out what I want to do. I didn't like the
Speaker 4: Western allopathic medical paradigm, so I went Parts East and
Speaker 4: I learned, you know, Asian body work. I learned. I
Speaker 4: was in acupuncture. I went to clinic, I learned Chinese
Speaker 4: herbalism and all that stuff. Now as I was doing that,
Speaker 4: I was initiating into the Golden Dawn, and I realized,
Speaker 4: hang on, did these two things need each other.
Speaker 9: You know.
Speaker 4: It was just a total fluke, Like I didn't think
Speaker 4: I was going to get the other side of the picture.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 4: It was just just happened at that time, and I
Speaker 4: was like, wait, this is blowing my goddamn mind. Like
Speaker 4: these are two things that when you have both of them,
Speaker 4: you have pretty much the whole picture. And but they're bifurcated.
Speaker 4: You know, especially in the West, we don't we do
Speaker 4: not have a system of working with the energies that
Speaker 4: we claim to project in the West the way that
Speaker 4: they do. So I was just personally keeping this record
Speaker 4: of what I was doing. I mean, right here, these
Speaker 4: are all my fucking journals that I wrote in through
Speaker 4: the outer Order, through college, everything, you know. So I'm
Speaker 4: sitting there creating my own library, my own personal record,
Speaker 4: which is a library of the things that I was seeing, noticing,
Speaker 4: learning combinations of techniques, and so it was just I
Speaker 4: was just doing that. I was doing that, I was
Speaker 4: living that, I was putting it into practice. And so
Speaker 4: then when I hopped on that line, it was like
Speaker 4: the you know, hey, that's your big idea, that's been
Speaker 4: your project, so why don't you just do that you've
Speaker 4: written it in pencil, you know why put it put
Speaker 4: into a book format?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Uh, Judith, did you have anything did you want
Speaker 2: to ask have to put you on the spot or anything?
Speaker 4: There sometimes that No.
Speaker 8: No, no, I have I don't.
Speaker 1: Actually, this is my introduction to Ike, so he's given
Speaker 1: me a lot to think about, and it's I'm actually
Speaker 1: considering taking your course.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 4: Well, and that gives me an opportunity for anybody that's
Speaker 4: familiar with pants offfers, right, Sam Robinson Ian Gladwin. I'm
Speaker 4: sure some people out there will be familiar with pants offfers.
Speaker 4: I've been reading pants offers for like twelve fifteen years.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 4: I recently partnered with them, and I'm going to be
Speaker 4: offering with pan Sulfers uh and Sam, I'm going to
Speaker 4: be teaching uh an etheric magic course. I'm going to
Speaker 4: be doing a whole course on the book, and it's
Speaker 4: going to be in six modules. We haven't gone live
Speaker 4: with any of those materials, but I'm just putting it
Speaker 4: out there in the ether for everybody that might be
Speaker 4: interested specifically in learning what I'm talking about tonight.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm looking that up. Now. That's it? Nice man.
Speaker 2: Good for you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well it's all it's all Sam. You can thank Sam.
Speaker 4: He's he's really good at that, you know, bringing bringing
Speaker 4: people into the fold.
Speaker 8: So so then, hey, what do you think the world's
Speaker 8: getting pretty crazy there?
Speaker 6: Ike?
Speaker 8: Do you think that this is the way to balance
Speaker 8: out the nonsensical with the sensical? And most people think
Speaker 8: the occult isn't as sensical as I know we all
Speaker 8: do here, but there seems to be a lot of
Speaker 8: dark sorcery going on. And the only way to contrast
Speaker 8: that was with the light. What't you say?
Speaker 4: Yeah, but the problem is that most people don't know
Speaker 4: what the fun they're doing with the light. You know,
Speaker 4: it's like you think you have the light, and what
Speaker 4: you're really doing is you have a flame, and the
Speaker 4: flame is not the true light. You're just lighting shit
Speaker 4: on fire at this point, you know, like, that's not
Speaker 4: the light, so right, and that's pure Plato right when
Speaker 4: they're sitting there, when it's the allegory of the Cave,
Speaker 4: Book seven of the Republic, When they're sitting there and
Speaker 4: they're seeing the shadows on the wall, what's behind them
Speaker 4: the false light and it's fire the true light. You
Speaker 4: gotta work for that true light. You gotta climb all
Speaker 4: the way up that path, that ascent, that rough ascent
Speaker 4: under the overpass, until finally you reach the light of
Speaker 4: day and the sun blinds you temporarily. That's the true light.
Speaker 4: You are fucking blind at first, and that is effectively
Speaker 4: what we all have to go through in order to
Speaker 4: fix the mess we're in. It's not it's not in
Speaker 4: we talked about this interface between the interior and the exterior,
Speaker 4: like our exterior situations are a product of who we
Speaker 4: are who we are, Okay, So a part of this
Speaker 4: can help with that, in the creation of insight, in
Speaker 4: the focusing of your attention and your efforts into something systematized,
Speaker 4: something progressive in terms of systematic, something you're getting better at,
Speaker 4: something you're working with and it's working on you. But
Speaker 4: there are other ways to do that. I mean, for me,
Speaker 4: it was always initiation. But I understand now, after being
Speaker 4: out here sticking my neck out here so people can
Speaker 4: rip my head off for three years, I understand that
Speaker 4: I didn't have the same experience of initiation that a
Speaker 4: lot of people who went through, you know, the same
Speaker 4: tradition did. I think that purely it was again this
Speaker 4: quixotic thing. I had no clue what the Golden Dawn
Speaker 4: was when I entered it. It was a fluke. I
Speaker 4: wanted to join a Kabbala study group and the guy
Speaker 4: told me, we don't do that anymore. But we got
Speaker 4: this other meeting and it was the golden on like
Speaker 4: what do people think you're doing? Like Harry Potter wand
Speaker 4: waving shit? And I totally flaked. But then when I
Speaker 4: went back, I didn't know anything about I had had
Speaker 4: no preconceptions.
Speaker 10: There wasn't all this.
Speaker 4: There weren't people like me out there giving everything away,
Speaker 4: you know, it was. It was very difficult to know anything.
Speaker 4: So I went into that blind and the fact that
Speaker 4: I wasn't trying to you know, hump into submission into
Speaker 4: what I wanted it to be. It I was able
Speaker 4: to experience it right Like if if if you met
Speaker 4: a person and you you went to coffee or you
Speaker 4: went to dinner, you're on a date, and the whole
Speaker 4: time you're sitting there telling them who you think they are,
Speaker 4: You're not going to learn a thing about them. You're
Speaker 4: probably not going to get a second date. Effectively, this
Speaker 4: this was what enabled me to have I believe the
Speaker 4: experience that I did have, which was utterly transformative. I'm
Speaker 4: virtually unrecognizable from the person I was before I went
Speaker 4: through initiation. And I think in some way you could
Speaker 4: do that at the Golden Dawn. You could do that
Speaker 4: with the Theoreic magic. You could do that in the Oto,
Speaker 4: you could do that in you know, amwork theosophy, because
Speaker 4: it's about what you are bringing to the table and
Speaker 4: how you are allowing yourself to be led.
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, that, or you could do it through reading
Speaker 8: the Republic and learning how to philosophize and realizing how
Speaker 8: to actually walk out of the cave, because nobody can
Speaker 8: do it for you, you know. And I think that's
Speaker 8: something that Socrates and Plato was through Socrates's voice, was
Speaker 8: really getting at, you know, is that like you have
Speaker 8: like that's the idea of at least my readings of
Speaker 8: no One. You can't bring the light back into the cave.
Speaker 8: And that's what people mistake is that no matter where
Speaker 8: you're at, in Malchuth or the cave. That's why it's
Speaker 8: a contrasting thing of like once you become a philosopher king,
Speaker 8: or once you witness the Platonic forms, it's truly that
Speaker 8: then you don't want to govern because you're just really
Speaker 8: truly trying to learn how to govern yourself.
Speaker 4: Well, and that's the thing there. There's some verbiage there,
Speaker 4: specifically in the in the original Greek, in the Republic,
Speaker 4: and I think you you should people should read the Republic.
Speaker 4: But if you really want to learn how to do
Speaker 4: the dialectic and what the whole purpose of it is,
Speaker 4: you got to read. You got to at least you
Speaker 4: got to at least read the twelve Dialogue, so the
Speaker 4: ambleiking and curriculum as well. You're not going to get
Speaker 4: it from a single dialogue, especially the Republic, because it's
Speaker 4: it's the great, it's the magnum opus. It contains all
Speaker 4: his major themes. It's exhaustive. But so so you know,
Speaker 4: you want to you want to go you want to
Speaker 4: read the Republic with a shirtba somebody that's been up
Speaker 4: this mountain seven or eight times, maybe one hundred.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 4: But the main thing about about the allegory of the
Speaker 4: cave is it is very interesting, very interesting. He doesn't
Speaker 4: say that the prisoner, and that's what he calls them prisoners.
Speaker 4: They're bound hand and foot, and their their necks, their heads,
Speaker 4: they can't look away from the wall. He doesn't say
Speaker 4: that one escapes. He says that one is freed. He
Speaker 4: doesn't say by who or why. But then he says
Speaker 4: he is then shoved, pushed and dragged up. That this
Speaker 4: is what I mean when allowing yourself to be led,
Speaker 4: because that in that instance, Socrates, I believe Plato, you know,
Speaker 4: through Socrates talking about and this is not gonna be
Speaker 4: very popular, talking about providence. Providence, something comes and takes
Speaker 4: the chains off of you. For me, my life was destroyed.
Speaker 4: I had no choice. Did I know what I was
Speaker 4: going in?
Speaker 9: Now?
Speaker 4: I flaked on the Golden Dawn?
Speaker 2: Did I know what I was in?
Speaker 9: No?
Speaker 4: I you know, I jerked around for the first like
Speaker 4: three months I was involved in the order. I had
Speaker 4: to be pushed, shoved and dragged, you know. And this
Speaker 4: there is you have to learn to allow yourself to
Speaker 4: be led.
Speaker 10: That's what it's.
Speaker 4: Something like a system like the Golden Dawn ultimately culminates
Speaker 4: in right, that's the job of the adept at first,
Speaker 4: the adept, this minor is to rise and unite with
Speaker 4: your higher divine genius. And so that's what's leading you
Speaker 4: in a lot of this stuff right, and we say it.
Speaker 4: The lamp of the hidden knowledge went before you, though
Speaker 4: you're the but though it was unseen by thine eyes.
Speaker 4: The knowledge of the lamp of the hidden knowledge is
Speaker 4: always guiding you. It's always in front of you. You
Speaker 4: don't know why you're doing what you're doing, you know,
Speaker 4: and if you dare take to take credit from it,
Speaker 4: you're gonna you will fall soon. So you need to
Speaker 4: allow yourself to be led. And I think that that's
Speaker 4: a really powerful statement in the Republic, is that like
Speaker 4: it's too much to do this yourself. We can't do it.
Speaker 4: Like the persona like you know, Ike, who when he
Speaker 4: dies is dead, you know, And like this guy who
Speaker 4: you know struggles with myriad things self esteem, laziness of
Speaker 4: physical health, eating too much, staying up too late. That guy,
Speaker 4: that guy's gonna do this work. No, absolutely not. There's
Speaker 4: something that that guy has to allow himself to be
Speaker 4: led through this work. You you don't give yourself the
Speaker 4: marching order you know, you receive, you learn ways to
Speaker 4: receive them. That's what the Golden don does. You're teaching
Speaker 4: you a way to receive your marching orders, and then
Speaker 4: you make sure that your ass follows, you know, just
Speaker 4: follow suit, but one foot in front of the other
Speaker 4: and that's it. So so I think that that's really
Speaker 4: important too, if we're talking about how to kind of
Speaker 4: fix or I don't even think you can't fix what's
Speaker 4: going on. You have to transition and evolve into something else.
Speaker 4: There's no fixing this. It's just we got to get
Speaker 4: through it, you know.
Speaker 2: And I don't know.
Speaker 4: I truly I can't say if we will get through
Speaker 4: it in my lifetime, but I always have hope, always.
Speaker 2: Yeah, beautiful, beautiful.
Speaker 3: Uh we there's anything about this book that you would
Speaker 3: like to, you know, at least still talk about or
Speaker 3: mention or leave us with before we start to wrap
Speaker 3: it up. You know, what is it about this book
Speaker 3: that's different that you say? You know, you know the
Speaker 3: reason for this book? I guess what stands out with
Speaker 3: this one and other people's.
Speaker 4: Well, A lot of people are telling me that it's
Speaker 4: it's extremely easy to read, and like, I put shitload
Speaker 4: information into this thing, as as I always do. I
Speaker 4: can't help myself. I really can't help myself. I just
Speaker 4: I'm here to literally just just just vomit this stuff.
Speaker 4: And I give a lot of relevant contextual and historical
Speaker 4: stuff to point you in a direction to begin to
Speaker 4: understand this, rather than like you go on YouTube and
Speaker 4: you're watching some guy tell you about, you know, piezoelectricity
Speaker 4: in his crystals. There's nothing wrong with that, but there's
Speaker 4: there's there's a much broader history of discussion and this
Speaker 4: in learning what this is and using it. It's a
Speaker 4: huge history both hemispheres, right, So I try and and
Speaker 4: give that stuff in contextual for the reader. And it
Speaker 4: just so happened that, uh, you know, it was my
Speaker 4: first book, deal, but it wasn't the first book I wrote.
Speaker 4: So I got all the big words and fancy concepts
Speaker 4: out in the first book. It was a total cathartic
Speaker 4: you know exercise. So this one I was much more
Speaker 4: focused in the way that I wrote, and apparently it
Speaker 4: was very very clear to a lot of people. I
Speaker 4: think that's one way it stands out. The other way
Speaker 4: is that nobody's ever done anything like that before. You know,
Speaker 4: Etheric taken the Eastern tradition and what what we what
Speaker 4: I learned about the Eastern tradition and brought it into
Speaker 4: the language the symbol systems of the Hermetic Kabbala of
Speaker 4: the West and Western alchemy. So so that's it's really
Speaker 4: those two systems that they were the only doorways in uh,
Speaker 4: into getting this stuff into a specifically Western magical practice
Speaker 4: for people too. Then it's just a very easy transition
Speaker 4: into using it magically. And I'd like to think I'm
Speaker 4: very thorough, but I leave enough room for you to, like,
Speaker 4: I say, you know you can you don't like some
Speaker 4: of this stuff, fine, great, take it what you do
Speaker 4: like and apply it to the system that you currently work.
Speaker 2: Apply it.
Speaker 4: It's it's very applicable to everything that you're probably already doing.
Speaker 4: So so there's that too that it can be kind
Speaker 4: of a little a La Kart. So yeah, other than that,
Speaker 4: I mean, go on Amazon and read the reviews. I
Speaker 4: got some really good refuse.
Speaker 3: To actually, oh and you do have I think it
Speaker 3: does mention. You do have like fifty lessons in that
Speaker 3: too as well.
Speaker 4: Right, Oh, yeah, I've got exercises, there's a there's a
Speaker 4: guided visualization, there is all sorts of stuff. It's you know,
Speaker 4: it's Llewellen. So the main thing, you know, one of
Speaker 4: their central tenets is, yeah, you write about all the
Speaker 4: history and theory you want.
Speaker 8: But you got it.
Speaker 4: This has to focus on practice, which I love. I
Speaker 4: was on board with that from the beginning, so it's
Speaker 4: extremely practical. I would say, uh, yeah, that's uh, that's
Speaker 4: really it. It's a special it's a special book. It's
Speaker 4: it's it's it's already it's getting translated into multiple languages
Speaker 4: at this point, so it's it's it's really been a
Speaker 4: wild ride with this particular book. But look out for
Speaker 4: the maybe maybe in two years, I think that'll be
Speaker 4: ready to the the Luminous Body. That's what I'm calling
Speaker 4: it for now. The follow up, the sequel to it
Speaker 4: is uh, I'm going to do that with Lluellen some
Speaker 4: good for you man, Good luck with that.
Speaker 10: So I expect to read a book and then be
Speaker 10: able to do TELEKINESI. Right, yeah, yeah, awesome.
Speaker 4: By the way, I'm gonna have you sign a liability
Speaker 4: way for.
Speaker 3: Very nice all right, Uh, I'll have everybody plug is
Speaker 3: shows before we wrap it up here what is going on?
Speaker 2: And you're muted?
Speaker 10: You know, sorry about that.
Speaker 1: It's been a pleasure, actually quite enlightening. I know you
Speaker 1: put it out in ether about that course you're putting together.
Speaker 1: How soon do you think that might be out there
Speaker 1: for us to partake.
Speaker 4: I want to say, March, I'm probably I'm going to
Speaker 4: be teaching three courses in in in this in March,
Speaker 4: I'm going to be teaching the Etheric Magic Course, which
Speaker 4: is going to be six modules right out of the
Speaker 4: book and with extra shit you know that I didn't
Speaker 4: put in there. I'll be teaching a class called a
Speaker 4: course called Techniques of Greco Egyptian Theorgy, and that is
Speaker 4: in October of last year, I did a I guided
Speaker 4: and facilitated a field immersive excursion through Upper and Lower
Speaker 4: Egypt with twenty participants. And I had spent a significant
Speaker 4: amount of time putting together and reconstructing to whatever degree
Speaker 4: was possible ancient theurgic ritual ceremonies and and uh so
Speaker 4: all of the ritual techniques and the theory and the
Speaker 4: history that I put together for that that actual like
Speaker 4: on site you know, nine ten day excursion that's gonna
Speaker 4: be most of the content of this that course. And
Speaker 4: then uh the the final course I'm gonna be doing,
Speaker 4: which is shorter, it's only four modules. It's it's gonna
Speaker 4: be it's called Astrological Herbalism for Witches. Magicians and alchemists.
Speaker 4: So that's another book I got in the pipeline and
Speaker 4: I'm going to be teaching a course on on that stuff.
Speaker 4: So yeah, again, anybody that's interested Ike Baker dot com
Speaker 4: write to me and I'll get you signed.
Speaker 2: Up for everything. Nice good stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Oh but thank you again.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: And you could catch me on the Loon on YouTube
Speaker 1: as a loon on YouTube and on x This was
Speaker 1: a pleasure.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, and uh jin, what is going on with
Speaker 6: what's up? Well, I just want to say thank you
Speaker 6: so much. I honestly you're a great guest to like
Speaker 6: legit legit like super respect to your knowledge base and
Speaker 6: just like how yeah, it's a bit syncretic, but that's
Speaker 6: kind of the time of that exactly like what you said.
Speaker 6: It's like I always say, like knowledge goes best together
Speaker 6: because then only then can you see the contour of
Speaker 6: the truth.
Speaker 2: I kind of like that.
Speaker 6: That's very ton tric, maybe because we only have one
Speaker 6: primordial truth but a lot of relative truth, so it
Speaker 6: makes sense for us. But you know, regardless of your system,
Speaker 6: I think that you do have a lot of knowledge
Speaker 6: and I greatly appreciate it.
Speaker 2: So thank you so much.
Speaker 6: And thank you, of course, Nick Boss for inviting me,
Speaker 6: Thank you Judith, thank you Brandon of course, who is
Speaker 6: my buddy. For the record, he is my friend, but
Speaker 6: I am going to give him shit on the show
Speaker 6: at times if I will. And then of course Matt,
Speaker 6: who is our webmaster as well as our YouTube social
Speaker 6: media coordinator for the Gray Lodge. Check out our show
Speaker 6: February thirteenth, will as the cause of fire exposition on
Speaker 6: naw success my episodes with Sauschkey, I have a double
Speaker 6: episode coming up, and also with the Taoist priest that
Speaker 6: we that I forgot his name very temporarily. Matt reminded
Speaker 6: me Master Gongson. And I've got so many, so many
Speaker 6: shows coming up. Nick I, Brandon and I are working
Speaker 6: on something I've got I've just got so much going on.
Speaker 6: It's like a little overwhelming, but it's it's great, it's generative,
Speaker 6: and I'm in a good place. So everybody, thank you
Speaker 6: so much, and have a great year of the fire Horse,
Speaker 6: because Chinese New Year is almost here end of the month,
Speaker 6: so you know, I think it'll be a welcome respite
Speaker 6: from the multuousness of the yearly Snake, So thank you,
Speaker 6: appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Oh, thank you for coming on. I would appreciate you.
Speaker 3: Jorded ed Brandon, what's going on Vegas?
Speaker 8: Hey? Yo?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 8: Nice, amazing as always, Ike's the man. I don't know
Speaker 8: why he doesn't say it. Supposedly he had a new
Speaker 8: company come a business with his soap and all the
Speaker 8: herbs and stuff, so everyone should make sure they also
Speaker 8: buy his brilliance. He'll tell you.
Speaker 5: Just go do it.
Speaker 8: Buy the book. Ikes the Man, megas and the media here.
Speaker 8: Head over to my YouTube because one of the remedies
Speaker 8: to a postmodern mechanical functional world is magic and kung fu,
Speaker 8: and I find that to be something everyone can do,
Speaker 8: so their only way to save the world is to
Speaker 8: save yourself. Head over to x head over to Instagram.
Speaker 8: This crew is amazing. Shout out to Nick of the
Speaker 8: occult rejects. We are all here because of him, and
Speaker 8: thank you again for the evening. It's fantastic.
Speaker 3: Thank you, sir. I appreciate your joining us and my
Speaker 3: man Matt was going on, kid. Thank you very much
Speaker 3: for coming on.
Speaker 9: Man, Yeah, thank you for calling always, super nice, super
Speaker 9: great discussions here and as always, you can find me
Speaker 9: as at Medmore nineteen that's going to be on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube,
Speaker 9: maybe some other places, but those are the ones that
Speaker 9: you should post the most.
Speaker 10: And like I said, just.
Speaker 9: Launch today you can enter a social platform for esoteric
Speaker 9: and spiritual discourse. It's not about hosting the content that
Speaker 9: already exists like here on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, everywhere, but
Speaker 9: more so a discourse layer. So there's gonna be a
Speaker 9: lot of coal stuff there. Just make sure to go
Speaker 9: to enter gammu that's ga Mu dot com. And yeah,
Speaker 9: in a few weeks that's gonna be a lot of
Speaker 9: co stuff there.
Speaker 3: So awesome, very nice, congratulations, gradulations, and last I please
Speaker 3: let everybody know where they can find at least yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks for having me on. It's always great. Seriously,
Speaker 4: I can't say enough good things about what you are
Speaker 4: putting together here and what you've done. I'm just happy
Speaker 4: to be, you know, in the mix anytime.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Ike Baker dot com I K E B A k
Speaker 4: E R. That's where you can find most of my stuff.
Speaker 4: The channel on the channel on YouTube is r kanem
Speaker 4: A R C A and v M. Thank you Brandon
Speaker 4: for mentioning the shop. Nicole, well, thank you as well.
Speaker 4: So I put that in the chat on YouTube. It's
Speaker 4: Prickle and Pine shop shop on on on Etsy, and
Speaker 4: uh yeah, we're shipping all over the place, and it's
Speaker 4: a lot of custom botanicals and soaps and saves and
Speaker 4: things like that. And I very occasionally will get in
Speaker 4: the mix and do a if I have a nice election,
Speaker 4: right astrological election, I'll do some uh some astrologically time.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: Uh, soaps correspond to different planets and things like that.
Speaker 4: I don't consecrate them, you know, because it's I'm I'm
Speaker 4: not putting my my my chee and your soap so
Speaker 4: that you can rub it on yourself. It's it's not
Speaker 4: what I do. If you want to consecrate it, go ahead,
Speaker 4: but I'll just make the soap and send you and
Speaker 4: Nicole will so Yeah, thank you for bringing that up.
Speaker 4: I appreciate it. There's just so much to talk about.
Speaker 4: I get overwhelmed. That's what friends are for, yeah, seriously,
Speaker 4: And I'm really looking forward, really looking forward to getting
Speaker 4: on here with fredder RC from a hermetic podcast. Uh
Speaker 4: and just a couple of days. I think Wednesday we're on.
Speaker 4: We're going to talk about Golden Dawn. Probably, yes, for
Speaker 4: the second time. Yeah, second truck. Yeah, thank you very
Speaker 4: much man for coming on.
Speaker 3: It's always great stuff, always great toys and tons of
Speaker 3: tons of information. I get a lot myself. Thank you
Speaker 3: everybody in the chat. That's what's up. There's a lot
Speaker 3: of people here from the beginning to the end. They
Speaker 3: appreciate it and love all the comments and love all
Speaker 3: the stuff that was added in the questions if they're
Speaker 3: thrown in there, and that's where we go live. But
Speaker 3: that's the end of another cult rejects until the next one.
Speaker 3: Everybody be well later.