Speaker 1: Welcome back, midnight viewers to Star Trek Fast. I'm follow
Speaker 1: alone with me as always, navigating the spaceways. Mister hbhbi
Speaker 1: you do, it's the spaceways.
Speaker 2: I'm doing good, follow blone, Thanks for having me again.
Speaker 2: Let's get into it.
Speaker 1: Oh man, we're here. We are number three. We're here
Speaker 1: to prove whether or not the fucking numerical coding with
Speaker 1: the Star Trek movies is true or not. Are the
Speaker 1: even movies good? Are the odd numbers bad? We're gonna
Speaker 1: find out because we're talking about Star Trek three, the
Speaker 1: search for spot.
Speaker 3: Now join the search to the final frontier of space adventure.
Speaker 4: These are the continuing voyages of the Starship Enterprise, her
Speaker 4: ongoing mission to explore strange new worlds, to seek out
Speaker 4: new life forms and new civilizations, to vocally go where
Speaker 4: no man has gone before.
Speaker 3: Admiral James T. Kirk and the crew of the Enterprise
Speaker 3: take off on their greatest mission, beyond anything they have
Speaker 3: ever accomplished before.
Speaker 2: Kurt, you do this, You'll never sit in the Captain's
Speaker 2: chair again.
Speaker 3: For the one thing that really matters, to find their friends.
Speaker 3: Why did you leave him on Genesis Stock trusted you
Speaker 3: an obviously to the planet man created a savage world
Speaker 3: that could destroy them all.
Speaker 2: Environment Scott.
Speaker 4: The needs of the many ways the.
Speaker 3: Shoe join the search. Since the overwhelming power of an
Speaker 3: adventure that troubles anything that has drawn.
Speaker 5: Before, this entire crew seems on the edge of obsessive
Speaker 5: behavior concerning mister Spock, Sir Security reports the door to
Speaker 5: Spox quarters has been forced.
Speaker 6: In Star Trek three, The Search for Spock.
Speaker 1: Star Trek three, The Search per Spock, directed by Leonard Namoy,
Speaker 1: written by Harve Bennett, and based on Star Trek by
Speaker 1: Gene Rodberry. This one stars William Shatner Deforced, Kelly James
Speaker 1: doing George ta Kay, Walter Kinig, Michelle Nichols, Merritt Buntrick,
Speaker 1: Robin Curtis, and Christopher Lloyd as Crewe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a lover hated situation. There's nobody. There's
Speaker 2: no halfway measure on this. You either love him in
Speaker 2: this or you can't stand him.
Speaker 1: There are detractors, Oh yeah, at the time. Certainly at
Speaker 1: the time. Certainly are there detractors now though after Doc
Speaker 1: Brown and decades of adoration.
Speaker 2: Judge Doom certainly is probably.
Speaker 1: People don't know him as Reverend Jimmy Kotowski anymore. If
Speaker 1: you say Christopher Lloyd, they think Doc Brown.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's fair, and I think it's a
Speaker 2: credit to him that Doc Brown is nothing like Reverend Jim.
Speaker 2: He has rained, which maybe wasn't immediately apparent to see
Speaker 2: him as Reverend Jim all those years. But yeah, I
Speaker 2: can't say whether he has detractors in modern day. But
Speaker 2: even now I have to admit watching it as a
Speaker 2: fan of Christopher Lloyd, it took me a minute or
Speaker 2: two to settle back into those familiar rhythms. By the way,
Speaker 2: it has to be noted that this is Leonard Nimoy's
Speaker 2: directorial debut.
Speaker 1: That is true. He did direct an episode of t J.
Speaker 2: Hooker with his old buddy, But yeah, this was a stipulation.
Speaker 2: He obviously Spock was killed in Star Trek two. Nimoy
Speaker 2: had all this leverage that he didn't have previously, and
Speaker 2: that was his condition for coming back a spot and
Speaker 2: he directed, and sure enough they did. Although I think
Speaker 2: there was a lot of medaling, studio medaling in this
Speaker 2: picture that maybe he got past and four when we
Speaker 2: talk about that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I'll say this, he unbeknownst to the people
Speaker 1: at Paramount Michael Eisner at all, Nimoi during the filming
Speaker 1: of Wrath of Khan began very much. He began to
Speaker 1: really regret the fact that he was going to die.
Speaker 1: He realized that this was fun and it was going
Speaker 1: to be a good movie, and they had a chance
Speaker 1: at not being Star Trek the motion picture, that this
Speaker 1: might not be the final voyage of the Starship Enterprise.
Speaker 1: They might be going on a whole lot more. If
Speaker 1: they're going to be like this, He'd be a fool
Speaker 1: not to be a board. So really he wanted to
Speaker 1: be there. And then they came begging and he said,
Speaker 1: I'll do it if I direct him, which is a
Speaker 1: great move. And now I don't think I appreciated until
Speaker 1: now rewatching the film how well directed the film actually is.
Speaker 2: He next to Nicholas Meyer, who I think is still
Speaker 2: the gold standard for the original series Star Trek movies.
Speaker 2: He's I mean, Nimoy's track record speaks for itself beyond
Speaker 2: Star Trek. I mean, obviously he did Little, Three Men
Speaker 2: and a Baby. He did a bunch of movies in
Speaker 2: the eighties. He was an in demand and he's a
Speaker 2: very good director and excuse me, and like you, I
Speaker 2: didn't appreciate that until watching it more recently and going,
Speaker 2: you know what this actually it wasn't as terrible as
Speaker 2: I'm led to believe by the rule of three with
Speaker 2: Star Trek movie.
Speaker 1: So okay. So basically Star Trek two. The day after
Speaker 1: Star Trek two is the day after Star Trek two premieres.
Speaker 1: Harve Bennet get's a call from Paramount saying give us
Speaker 1: Star Trek three, so he begins immediately writing the script.
Speaker 1: He does this one all on his own, although he
Speaker 1: does it in conjunction with Leonard Nimoy because he already
Speaker 1: knows Nimoy wants to direct it, so it's gonna be
Speaker 1: him shaping the story. So it's as much Nimoy's screenplay
Speaker 1: as it is Harve Bennett's, even though Bennett does the
Speaker 1: type in and the look. The movie's called The Search
Speaker 1: for Spock. There was no way they weren't ever going
Speaker 1: to not deal with the fact that they have to
Speaker 1: bring Spock back. They had not front loaded it, but
Speaker 1: like backloaded it at the end of that movie with
Speaker 1: the quick little remember McCoy, here's a pinch for you.
Speaker 1: So the script was always going to have to deal
Speaker 1: with that, and it was always going to have to
Speaker 1: deal with the Genesis project. And I don't know, what
Speaker 1: do you think of the story that they've come up
Speaker 1: with here. Do you think that this is the story
Speaker 1: we needed as a follow up to the triumph that
Speaker 1: was Star Trek to the Wrath of Khan?
Speaker 2: No? I think for me the story is my least
Speaker 2: favorite aspect of this movie because as we're going to
Speaker 2: get into, not a lot happens, And to be honest,
Speaker 2: there's not even a lot of searching for Spock. They
Speaker 2: find Spock pretty quickly as the movie goes on, so
Speaker 2: that's a bit of a misnomer. I just think the
Speaker 2: sort of the after effects of Genesis and the repercussions
Speaker 2: of it, that's fine. It just felt like very little
Speaker 2: to hang a story on. It just feels like not
Speaker 2: a lot happens story wise in this They probably could
Speaker 2: have come up with something a little more interesting and
Speaker 2: maybe a little more expand this just feels like a
Speaker 2: very This almost feels like an actual TV an expanded
Speaker 2: version of the TV show. Very like a lot spread
Speaker 2: out over an hour and a half. It could have
Speaker 2: been a half hour and out to an hour's worth
Speaker 2: of material to be spread out.
Speaker 1: The plot is very amorphous, there's nothing really driving it.
Speaker 1: It's all story, no plot. Basically, the Genesis planet is
Speaker 1: off limits. Spock's body is there. We find out Spock's
Speaker 1: consciousness that lives on in McCoy and that it needs
Speaker 1: to go back into Spock's body. So they have to
Speaker 1: get spos body back from Genesis, but the Federation doesn't
Speaker 1: want them going, and the Klingons are on their way
Speaker 1: to Genesis because they hear it's a weapon worth having.
Speaker 1: That's the whole movie, and it's just a slow progression
Speaker 1: to put those pieces into place and then getting Spock
Speaker 1: back the end.
Speaker 2: Just the fact that the Klingons are on the search
Speaker 2: for Genesis being this ultimate weapon. We just saw that
Speaker 2: in Star Trek two. That was part of Khan's plan
Speaker 2: is to seize the Genesis device so he would have
Speaker 2: all of this power and be this force to be
Speaker 2: reckoned with. I just didn't feel like it felt like
Speaker 2: a redo of a very similar plot line from part two.
Speaker 1: Yeah, without the sort of half, without the backstory, like
Speaker 1: the reason the con story, as you said, like it
Speaker 1: does mirror this a lot, like the way the dynamics
Speaker 1: play out between Kirk and Kruge. But Kirk and Khan
Speaker 1: had fucking history and really deep history, and there are
Speaker 1: there were genuine beefs there. I don't know what the
Speaker 1: Klingon's motivation is here. He's just we don't know anything
Speaker 1: about the Klons. We don't know his place within the
Speaker 1: hierarchy of the Klingon Empire. So I don't know if
Speaker 1: this is a rogue agent from the Klingon Empire. I
Speaker 1: don't know if he's like they're like undercovered division. So
Speaker 1: I don't know what he wants from Genesis to begin with,
Speaker 1: other than it's a big destructive thing. And then Harve
Speaker 1: Bennett can't think beyond what directly in front of him politically,
Speaker 1: and he's let's make this about the Soviet Union versus America.
Speaker 1: You mean, like every other piece of entertainment at the time,
Speaker 1: have great idea.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there just wasn't a lot of meat behind the story.
Speaker 2: It just felt very thin to me. Having said that, though,
Speaker 2: I did find myself really enjoying it, and that's almost
Speaker 2: solely due to the cast members themselves and the interactions
Speaker 2: and the direction. I thought it was for a first time.
Speaker 2: I thought he did an excellent job.
Speaker 1: Look, it is a feature film of a television episode.
Speaker 1: Like you said, there's not a whole lot plot wise,
Speaker 1: it's nothing to get excited about. But it is a
Speaker 1: movie and it works as a film. It's a very
Speaker 1: well made film, and an exciting one at that. And
Speaker 1: I always liked this movie. I never agreed with the
Speaker 1: odd numbers star treks are bad because I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, man like that. There was a trilogy there,
Speaker 1: the Genesis trilogy they call it now, which is Wrath
Speaker 1: of Khan, Search for Spock, and Voyage Home. I thought
Speaker 1: those three movies all work on their own charms. But
Speaker 1: I do like the movie even better now having rewatched
Speaker 1: it and knowing a little bit more about the behind
Speaker 1: the scenes and the lore and everything. But just on
Speaker 1: the surface level watching the movie, I think it really works.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally agree. And I was surprised because again
Speaker 2: I had seen it. I'd seen it a lot when
Speaker 2: it was on cable, but mostly piecemeal. I can't say
Speaker 2: that I aside from once maybe sitting down to watch
Speaker 2: the whole movie, so in a sense, I was revisiting
Speaker 2: it for the first time in a long time, and
Speaker 2: the reputation will always precede it. This like you said
Speaker 2: this idea that all the odd number star Trek movies
Speaker 2: are terrible, that's not really the case here. Is it
Speaker 2: as strong as some of the better offerings. No, it's
Speaker 2: not gonna it compares unfavorably to Wrath of Khan or
Speaker 2: I would say first contact if we're talking about the
Speaker 2: next gen cast. But that doesn't mean this movie doesn't
Speaker 2: have its own merits, and it tells and the story
Speaker 2: is told in an interesting way, in a visually appealing way,
Speaker 2: even if the story itself was let down for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, overall, it's I don't know, it's anyway, Let's get
Speaker 1: into the fucking plot. Nolly, what's this movie about? HB
Speaker 1: Wait before we get there. Yeah, okay, here's one thing
Speaker 1: that I wish I had been not on the set for.
Speaker 1: I wish I had been in pre production meetings for
Speaker 1: anytime Leonard Nimoy suggested a television actor in a major role.
Speaker 1: To watch the producer fumble around and try to tell
Speaker 1: Leonard Nimoy that they don't want a TV actor in
Speaker 1: their big budget movie, because I imagine it would be
Speaker 1: like we don't want this fucking TV Oh hey Leonard, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Leonard who railed against being typecast so much they wrote
Speaker 1: a fucking book about it. The fact that there were
Speaker 1: conversations where and if you listen to the commentary you
Speaker 1: can hear leonardymoight gleefully recall list where they said Christopher
Speaker 1: Lloyd is basically just this guy from a sitcom on TV,
Speaker 1: and he was like, and they're like, okay, I will
Speaker 1: definitely consider it. And then the same later where James
Speaker 1: Sicking as the Captain of the Excelsior. He was on
Speaker 1: Hill Street Blues. That was all anyone knew him from.
Speaker 1: He was famous for that show, and that was the
Speaker 1: same reaction, Do you really wanted stunt cast as TV
Speaker 1: guy in our big movie? And he was like, yep,
Speaker 1: I sure do.
Speaker 2: Yeah. There's a lot of interesting little bit parts that
Speaker 2: are cast here. Obviously beyond Christopher Lloyd as the Klingon commander,
Speaker 2: his second in command is played by John Laracat, which
Speaker 2: still blows my mind, even almost more so than Christopher Lloyd,
Speaker 2: because this is Dan Fielding from Nightcourt. This is not
Speaker 2: someone you would expect to be playing a and I think,
Speaker 2: actually I read somewhere that Nimoy dubbed him the thoughtful klingon.
Speaker 2: He is a good description.
Speaker 1: Because he really is, absolutely is and you know it's funny.
Speaker 1: So he's Christopher Lloyd's first first officer, and over on
Speaker 1: the Excelsior, his first officer is Mikhail Ferrer, like also
Speaker 1: a professional prick and the just.
Speaker 2: Another in a line of RoboCop actors who were in
Speaker 2: Star Trek movies, because we're going to see Peter Weller
Speaker 2: was in it. Obviously, what's his name? Kurtwood Smith is
Speaker 2: going to be in Star Trek six.
Speaker 1: Right, he's the president of the Federation.
Speaker 2: He is. One interesting piece of trivia that I found
Speaker 2: related to the casting of Krug is and I'm forgive
Speaker 2: me if you've got this queue up bottom alone. But
Speaker 2: apparently Neimoy's original choice for krug was Edward James Almost.
Speaker 2: I never knew this. I just found this out, but
Speaker 2: Harve Bennett preferred Christopher Lloyd in the role then to
Speaker 2: make it more interesting. Beyond that, Almost was also later
Speaker 2: offered role of Jean Luke Picard in the Next Generation,
Speaker 2: but he turned it down. He wanted to focus on
Speaker 2: stage and film. Can you imagine how different the next
Speaker 2: generation would be. It would be Paul Stewart.
Speaker 1: You know what, They would have ended up sticking to
Speaker 1: Rodenderry's initial dictum that Picard never leaves the ship. That's
Speaker 1: what the first officer is for. And almost would have
Speaker 1: stuck to that, and you would have known the bridge
Speaker 1: was a serious place. It would not have been a
Speaker 1: fun loving.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, not at all. I just that it's fascinating
Speaker 2: enough to consider Edward James almost as a Klingon commander.
Speaker 2: He would have been really good in it. But just
Speaker 2: the icing on the cake was the fact that he
Speaker 2: could have been Picard in the next generation. That blew
Speaker 2: my mind.
Speaker 1: He would not have worked as Picard, he would have
Speaker 1: worked as Card. He would have worked in a lot
Speaker 1: of villain roles.
Speaker 2: Here he would have And I wish they had cast.
Speaker 1: Him as a Romulan, actually not a Vulcan, because the
Speaker 1: Romulans are really scary.
Speaker 2: This is not to say that he almost should only
Speaker 2: be playing villainous roles, because obviously he played hi Ma
Speaker 2: Escalante and that that Standing Deliver movie, and he was
Speaker 2: Gaff and playe Runner, and he was great in all
Speaker 2: of these things. And he was in Miami Vice for years.
Speaker 2: Wasn't he one of the cops.
Speaker 1: In my Oh yeah, it was the captain.
Speaker 2: Was he the captain?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I told you there's that in that like that.
Speaker 1: He signed on to that with Michael Mann, and the
Speaker 1: idea was that no matter what, he could just do
Speaker 1: whatever he wanted.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah. He ordered somebody to come back again.
Speaker 1: Don Johnson breezed into his office and in character, he said,
Speaker 1: go back out and close that door and knock. And
Speaker 1: Don Johnson in character had to go do it.
Speaker 2: He's a bad ask, no question, but he would not know.
Speaker 2: That would not have been a good pick card.
Speaker 1: You can see that as a power move. But at
Speaker 1: the same time, I think Captain Castillo would have done that.
Speaker 2: Sure, he's he He is one of those method actors
Speaker 2: who really likes to get into it and become the character.
Speaker 2: And I respect that. All right, So we're going to
Speaker 2: talk about what the plot of this movie is effectively,
Speaker 2: so it takes it actually picks up exactly where Star
Speaker 2: Trek two left off, where Spock is dead.
Speaker 1: We've got a little time, we got a little time left.
Speaker 1: The ship has been repaired, people have gotten off the
Speaker 1: ship and are on different missions now. So this is
Speaker 1: a couple of months later.
Speaker 2: Let's say that's true, but it's pretty close.
Speaker 1: So now, what can I just and let me speak
Speaker 1: to this because I've heard a lot. I've read a
Speaker 1: lot of reviews, and I've heard a lot of reviews
Speaker 1: about this movie. And one of the gripes that people
Speaker 1: have is that the tone from the last movies ending
Speaker 1: to this movie's beginning is wildly off, because we get
Speaker 1: a hopeful Kirk at the end, and here he's desponded.
Speaker 1: And this is the first time we get a straight
Speaker 1: voice over in any of the Star Trek movies actually
Speaker 1: of him, his personal log as it were. And I
Speaker 1: would say maybe anyone who is criticizing this should live
Speaker 1: for a few months after somebody dies and see how
Speaker 1: fucking jubilant and hopeful you are all the time. What
Speaker 1: the fuck kind of a criticism is that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, warning does not take place in a straight line.
Speaker 2: It's not like he's going to be hopeful and then
Speaker 2: that's going to continue on it's peaks and valleys. I
Speaker 2: don't think that's not I don't think that's unnatural at
Speaker 2: all that he would seem hopeful at the end of
Speaker 2: two but then in three he's back to being he's
Speaker 2: been without his effectively his best friend and somebody who
Speaker 2: was integral to the operation of this of the Enterprise,
Speaker 2: So of course he's going to be bummed about it,
Speaker 2: for lack of a better word, but yeah, he's they're
Speaker 2: heading back to Earth for what they believe is going
Speaker 2: to be a refit of the Enterprise. But the Enterprise
Speaker 2: is still damaged.
Speaker 1: It's been repaired, plates welded over at the scorch marks
Speaker 1: on the side closely, like they got to some space
Speaker 1: doc and they're just like, I'll just patch it up
Speaker 1: and fucking send it on its way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, even on the bridge there's like all these there's
Speaker 2: still scorches all around the bridge from when KHN attacked
Speaker 2: them in the second one. So they're heading back. They're
Speaker 2: going back to Earth, but there's something odd happens on
Speaker 2: the way where they get a report that there's someone
Speaker 2: in Spock's quarters. Spock's quarters were sealed after he died,
Speaker 2: and they don't know what's going on. So Kirk decides
Speaker 2: to go down personally and figure out what's happening, and
Speaker 2: he discovers he walks in there, it's a very dark.
Speaker 2: He hears a voice. He hears Spock come out of
Speaker 2: the shadows saying, Jim, why did you leave me? You
Speaker 2: need to climb the steps to Mount Celia and help me.
Speaker 2: And he goes and grabs this person in the shadows
Speaker 2: and it's McCoy, and it seems like McCoy's not all there.
Speaker 2: He's speaking effectively like Spock.
Speaker 1: Now, I got chills when I saw this in the theater.
Speaker 2: I can say it, oh, because it's very effective, because they.
Speaker 1: Have When you heard voice, I was just like, yeah, it's.
Speaker 2: N moy's voice. Because this was Look. I don't know
Speaker 2: that we ever thought that Spock would never come back,
Speaker 2: but there's something about the finality of seeing him die
Speaker 2: in part two and then to hear his voice croaking
Speaker 2: out of the shadows begging for help. It's nimoy. It's
Speaker 2: chill inducing. It's it really is effective. But we know,
Speaker 2: having watched too and know the whole remember bit where and.
Speaker 1: How do you remember that? Because Harve Bennett, television producer
Speaker 1: upgraded to feature films, decides how do we remind the
Speaker 1: audience what happened to the last movie I know previously
Speaker 1: on Star Trek and they give us a they give
Speaker 1: us basically just a replay of the last scene between
Speaker 1: Kirk and Spock and then the remember with Macay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's fresh in your mind now as a viewer. Okay,
Speaker 2: I remember now he mind melded and that left the
Speaker 2: door open for him to come back, but they don't
Speaker 2: make much of it at this point. They want to
Speaker 2: get back to Earth. Meanwhile, there is a Klingon ship
Speaker 2: captained by this guy Krug, who is making a deal
Speaker 2: with some kind of a mercenary to get data related
Speaker 2: to the Genesis device.
Speaker 1: Not some kind of a mercenary. He's dealing with his agent,
Speaker 1: who is also his lover, who has been out trying
Speaker 1: to find information about the She's on a mercenary ship.
Speaker 2: That's the ship itself is a mercenary ship, but she
Speaker 2: is a Klingon also, Yeah, and his lover you're.
Speaker 1: All Chris is her name, Sir Waal Chris.
Speaker 2: So they get into this thing where he uncloaks. They
Speaker 2: transmit the Genesis data, but the woman makes the mistake
Speaker 2: of saying to Krug over the calm link, I've seen
Speaker 2: the data. I think you'll find it very interesting. I
Speaker 2: love this part. Krug says, Oh, you've seen it and
Speaker 2: she says yeah, and he says, that's very unfortunate. Now
Speaker 2: you know that it's curtains and she knows it too.
Speaker 2: She knows that she's He has to tie up all
Speaker 2: the loose ends. Krug Kill destroys the ship with his
Speaker 2: lover on board. That's how much of a ruthless guy
Speaker 2: this guy is. And he also has this like pet
Speaker 2: that he keeps next to him that looks kind of
Speaker 2: like the Ghostbusters. What are the creatures that run around
Speaker 2: the dogs?
Speaker 6: Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you starved one of those and it had
Speaker 1: mangy fur and looked like it lived in a sewer.
Speaker 1: The crew dumped that animal Fifi Riboso.
Speaker 2: It's the slimy looking ads.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they creepy look. Apparently they would dump like
Speaker 1: liquid on it, like right before shooting, just to make
Speaker 1: it look extra fucking creepy. Yeah, but that's Krug's pet.
Speaker 2: It's so disgusting. So now so Kruge has this information
Speaker 2: and he now he's setting a course for the Genesis
Speaker 2: planet because he needs to then deal with the scientists
Speaker 2: who developed it to better understand how to work weapon.
Speaker 1: That's our starfleet. Yes, because this is a very motivated Klingon.
Speaker 1: He does not like Starfleet at all. He'd like to
Speaker 1: see them fall. He can't stand the idea of living
Speaker 1: happily under a flag with the Starfleet and logo on it.
Speaker 2: He keeps making the point that this is all for
Speaker 2: the survival of the continued survival of the Klingon race.
Speaker 2: But it's unclear, as you said earlier, if he is
Speaker 2: acting on orders from some higher up in the chain
Speaker 2: of command, or if he's just a rogue agent just
Speaker 2: out there doing these things without the government, the Klingon government,
Speaker 2: understanding what he's doing. It's never made clear.
Speaker 1: No, it's not. But these are great questions. And here's
Speaker 1: the thing. You can say what you want about the
Speaker 1: even and odd numbered movies. You can say whatever you
Speaker 1: want about the effectiveness of the story and the plot
Speaker 1: going on here, what you can't argue with is the
Speaker 1: fact that this movie sends the template for Klingons for
Speaker 1: the rest of the entire run of all the different
Speaker 1: star treks. This is where the Klingon Empire is really cemented,
Speaker 1: and we start to get to know these characters and
Speaker 1: figure out what's motivating them and how they act and
Speaker 1: their customs, and most importantly, their language, because here's for
Speaker 1: the first time where somebody has come in and actually
Speaker 1: written their language. The first film we got a few
Speaker 1: snatches of dialogue that apparently James Dowan was like spitting
Speaker 1: out guttural phrases and they're like, yep, that'll do. That's
Speaker 1: not what they're doing here. Now they've got an actual
Speaker 1: linguist who has decided how Klingon will be spoken. He's
Speaker 1: on set coaching them. And this is fascinating to me
Speaker 1: HP because Klingon is a language. Now you can go
Speaker 1: get the books, you can learn how to speak it,
Speaker 1: you can converse with others in the language. And that
Speaker 1: modern language is in some parts shaped by Christopher Lloyd,
Speaker 1: who would say things incorrectly sometimes and the linguists would say,
Speaker 1: oh no, that sounds better, so they would in this
Speaker 1: case the grammar would default to this, which makes it
Speaker 1: an actual language in a lot of ways, because all
Speaker 1: these weirdo rules would only come out through language. So
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's just fascinating to me that whole thing.
Speaker 1: And we get we already have the uniforms from the
Speaker 1: first film, but more importantly we get the Klingon bird
Speaker 1: of prey. Here this bit of ILM magic that they
Speaker 1: will reuse over and over. The footage from this movie
Speaker 1: is going to be used one million times in every
Speaker 1: version of Star Trek. It's in Next Generation all the time,
Speaker 1: it's in Deep Space nine. I'm sure they use it
Speaker 1: in Voyager at one point. And there's a reason it
Speaker 1: fucking stands up to this day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and thank you for bringing up the bit about
Speaker 2: the language that I was surprised when I learned that
Speaker 2: while researching this this episode. It's, if nothing else, this
Speaker 2: movie doesn't get nearly enough credit for being the genesis,
Speaker 2: if you will, of the Klingons as a real race
Speaker 2: of characters with an actual language and a culture. It's
Speaker 2: it's the kind of thing where you'd assume, well, Klingons
Speaker 2: have been around since the original series, not like this.
Speaker 2: They weren't go back and watch the original series. Klingons
Speaker 2: did not have this level of sophistication with their chain
Speaker 2: of command with the ships. The Bird of Prey, as
Speaker 2: I understand it was actually acted out by Nimoy. He
Speaker 2: was instrumental in what it would look like. He would
Speaker 2: stand in a room and put his arms out like this,
Speaker 2: and is it still looks like such a fierce and
Speaker 2: aggressive starship compared to all the Federation ships. It's awesome.
Speaker 2: Holds up even today.
Speaker 1: It's probably the best Klingon. They haven't really innovated the
Speaker 1: Klingons enough as far as I'm concerned, throughout all the
Speaker 1: different Star Treks, but it's the best Klingon vessel ever created.
Speaker 1: And part of it is that what you're describing Nimoy
Speaker 1: saying it should look like a bird and its wings
Speaker 1: should fold up and down from whether it's attacking or flying.
Speaker 1: Because they said they didn't notice if people or they
Speaker 1: wondered if people noticed that it did that, and I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: of course we did. We fucking love that it does that.
Speaker 1: And what's the other thing about the fucking Klingon ships? Ah, God,
Speaker 1: damn it.
Speaker 2: The culture, the ways, the way it would.
Speaker 4: Oh.
Speaker 1: The fact is that the designer based it on a
Speaker 1: body builder. And once you know that and you look
Speaker 1: at it, it clearly has shoulders like trapezes, like muscles
Speaker 1: back there, like flexing. When the arms go up and down,
Speaker 1: it looks like a hunched over, angry, aggressive thing.
Speaker 2: It's responsible for one of my favorite moments in Star
Speaker 2: Trek four, which I know we'll get to We're not
Speaker 2: talking about that now, but put a pin in that.
Speaker 2: We're going to talk about it when we get to
Speaker 2: star Trek four.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this is their vessel for a while. Yeah,
Speaker 1: whatever to this ship. Oh it sinks, It sinks in
Speaker 1: the San Francisco But of course you think they would
Speaker 1: pull it out of there though, Federations Starfly is just
Speaker 1: gonna leave a fucking Klingon ship that can close that
Speaker 1: at the bottom of the bay.
Speaker 2: They need that, if nothing else, to discover the secret
Speaker 2: to cloaking technology, which somehow the Federation has never cracked.
Speaker 2: In all of their decades of dealing with the Klingons,
Speaker 2: they still have not figured out how to cloak a
Speaker 2: vessel that I would have rescued the shell of the
Speaker 2: ship just to figure out what the secret of their
Speaker 2: tech was. Nevertheless, the Klingon ship is going to the
Speaker 2: Genesis planet. Savag and David Marcus from the first from
Speaker 2: the second movie, Excuse Me are part of a science
Speaker 2: team that are studying the Genesis planet, so they're there.
Speaker 2: By the way, Robin Curtis has now essayed the role
Speaker 2: of Savac, in my opinion, doing a far better job
Speaker 2: than Kursi aali from Star Trek two. Will you listen
Speaker 2: to that episode if you want to hear my critique
Speaker 2: of her performance Kurs the Alley. But I love Robin Curtis.
Speaker 1: And this, I will agree with you one hundred percent
Speaker 1: that she is much more vulcan. Yeah, we're taking Savoc
Speaker 1: as a pure Vulcan character. Then, yes, I believe this,
Speaker 1: And there is no reason to believe she is half Yes,
Speaker 1: there's no reason to believe she's half for Omulan because
Speaker 1: they don't really mention it. You have to watch the
Speaker 1: director's cut and blah blah blah. But as pure Vulcan. Yes,
Speaker 1: Robin Curs is great and she is really good. I'm
Speaker 1: not taking anything away from her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's great. And so they're studying the Genesis planets.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they've been transferred to the USS Grissom, which
Speaker 1: is named after, of course, Virgil Gus Grissom, the astronaut
Speaker 1: in the most ill designed starfleet craft of all time,
Speaker 1: where the saucer section is held between the n cells.
Speaker 2: I kind of liked it. It was different.
Speaker 1: I mean it's different. I definitely want to hook the
Speaker 1: cabin of my cruiser up to the fucking engine.
Speaker 2: But it's a science vessel. It's it's not made for war.
Speaker 2: It's not made for.
Speaker 1: I don't need warfare to try and get the least
Speaker 1: amount of radiation on me as possible. Nevertheless, it's a scientist,
Speaker 1: so you'd think they'd know better.
Speaker 2: Maybe so they're studying it. Kirk and company have gone
Speaker 2: back to a star doc on Earth effectively, and McCoy
Speaker 2: is not himself blah blah blah. But they at this
Speaker 2: point they don't know what. They just figure its exhaustion.
Speaker 2: That's what's been bothering him. Seems a little I don't
Speaker 2: know I would be able to worried, but.
Speaker 1: Kirk would immediately there's something going on with you, McCoy.
Speaker 1: What the fuck is it?
Speaker 2: What he mentions Mount Celia, which Kirk knows is on Vulcan.
Speaker 2: He should have that should have been his clue that, hey,
Speaker 2: maybe there's something more to this, more to this. Nevertheless,
Speaker 2: they're there. The Admiral meets them and says, you all
Speaker 2: have sure leave, but except for you, Scotty. You're going
Speaker 2: to be part of the crew of the Excelsior, which
Speaker 2: is this brand spanking new starship that has something called
Speaker 2: transwarp drive. Everybody. It's all the rage. Now it's a
Speaker 2: young upstart to the end.
Speaker 1: That the designer of this particular ship, he took it
Speaker 1: upon himself to design the Enterprise as if a Japanese
Speaker 1: designer had done it, and that's the Excelsior And that
Speaker 1: was one of many choices given to Leonard Deemer and
Speaker 1: he was like, ooh, that one's beautiful.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So Kirk asks the Admiral, what about what about
Speaker 2: the Enterprise? Like, I know, Scotty says, it's all the same.
Speaker 2: Admiral would like to stay in the Enterprise. The Admiral says, no,
Speaker 2: the Enterprise is not going to be refit. The Enterprise
Speaker 2: is going to be decommissioned. It's twenty years old and
Speaker 2: it's not going to hold up to any kind of
Speaker 2: beating that you can give it. It's the Enterprise's time.
Speaker 2: This dismays Kirk because he was hoping to then take
Speaker 2: the Enterprise back to Genesis to look or actually we
Speaker 2: haven't even gotten there yet. I apologize, but.
Speaker 1: No, no, it's fine. We can like it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1: Everyone knows the movie. But here's the thing. There is
Speaker 1: some debate about this because it makes zero sense that
Speaker 1: they're going to decommission the Enterprise. They just refit. It happened.
Speaker 1: It was like five years ago, right, and now after
Speaker 1: one battle and some scarring. Look, I bet it's fucked up,
Speaker 1: but they're gonna just decommission it entirely. What are they
Speaker 1: going to turn it into a revolving restaurant.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to do anything here.
Speaker 1: It is.
Speaker 2: But if you think of it in terms of the
Speaker 2: Excelsior being, the tech is just so more up updated.
Speaker 2: I guess maybe in theory it couldn't stack up to
Speaker 2: the Enterprise in terms of technology. Maybe he makes more
Speaker 2: sense at that point to say, maybe it is the
Speaker 2: Enterprise's time. Nevertheless, the er or.
Speaker 1: How about this, you know what, Jim, just take her,
Speaker 1: just take her.
Speaker 2: The problem with that is, in this case, once Kirk
Speaker 2: mentions Jim.
Speaker 1: Jim him, do me a favor, resign, take the fucking ship.
Speaker 1: Just get out of here. We don't want to see
Speaker 1: her again.
Speaker 2: But he won't do that because once Kirk mentions Genesis,
Speaker 2: the Admiral says to Kirk, look in your absence, the
Speaker 2: Genesis is now this really hot button topic. Nobody wants
Speaker 2: to go near it. It's it's effectively quarantined by the Federation.
Speaker 2: Nobody goes there except for this science vessel. So the
Speaker 2: Admiral doesn't want Kirk going anywhere near Genesis, and he
Speaker 2: knows that's why he wants to go there.
Speaker 7: Now.
Speaker 2: He wants to go, and eventually he's going to disclose
Speaker 2: to the Admiral that he needs to go and retrieve
Speaker 2: Spock's body. Because what happens is in the meantime, Kirk
Speaker 2: is hosting a little soiree at his swanky bachelor pad
Speaker 2: where he's got the guns mounted on the wall and everybody.
Speaker 1: He loves his pistols, he does.
Speaker 2: The weird thing is the way they're mounted. Did you
Speaker 2: notice some of them are mounted upside down in this
Speaker 2: strange configuration. I couldn't figure out what the rationale behind
Speaker 2: that was.
Speaker 1: James T. Kirk is an artisan, That's what it is.
Speaker 1: Hb all right.
Speaker 2: He's wacky.
Speaker 1: He sees things a little bit different than the rest
Speaker 1: of us. He knows how a battle is going to go.
Speaker 2: What I like is so they're all having drinks and
Speaker 2: they're talking, and then the doorbell rings and Kirk goes, oh,
Speaker 2: that must be Scotty, Hey come in, and the door
Speaker 2: opens and it's not Scotty, it's Sarah. Maybe one of
Speaker 2: my favorite things in this whole movie is Sarak. I
Speaker 2: love Mark Leonard is Sarak. He's great in this. So
Speaker 2: he comes in. He's really upset at Kirk. He says
Speaker 2: to Kirk, we need to talk right now.
Speaker 1: Kirk, excuse me, yes, as Ambassador Sarak displays all of
Speaker 1: his diplomatic skills by walking into the middle of the
Speaker 1: party and going, I will talk to you Kirk.
Speaker 2: He doesn't exactly come in. He's not speaking softly at all.
Speaker 2: He's coming in there with his big stick, saying we
Speaker 2: need to put in fairness. It's his son that we're
Speaker 2: dealing with here.
Speaker 1: So motions are high for this Vulcan.
Speaker 2: He sits down with Kirk and he says, Kirk, why
Speaker 2: did you leave Spock on that planet? He's angry, He's like,
Speaker 2: why wouldn't you like it was his wish. You should
Speaker 2: have known that it was his wish to be taken
Speaker 2: back to Vulcan. Kirk's like, I don't know what you're
Speaker 2: talking about.
Speaker 1: Of us would It's like, what are you talking about?
Speaker 1: How would I know this? This isn't you guys aren't
Speaker 1: publicizing this, this is a secret ritual.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So it gets to the point where I think
Speaker 2: Sarak is just frustrated, and he says, let's mind meld.
Speaker 2: I need to get to the bottom of this, which
Speaker 2: which is, yeah, I will have your thoughts. So he
Speaker 2: mind melds, and it's actually a very intense sequence. Shatner
Speaker 2: plays it beautifully because what effectively what Sarah does is
Speaker 2: have him relive the last moments of Spock's life, the
Speaker 2: farewell that he made in that engine.
Speaker 1: Room and ambassador making again.
Speaker 2: Thanks. But you see the sadness he has. He literally
Speaker 2: has tears in his eyes. Kirk. When all this is
Speaker 2: said and done, he mind melds. Sark realizes that he
Speaker 2: doesn't know anything.
Speaker 1: But I just kind of asking out here that this
Speaker 1: is where I started falling in love with Leonard de
Speaker 1: moist direction, because he's making the entire movie very big.
Speaker 1: It's very operatic everything in it, except for these intimate
Speaker 1: moments that he makes even more intimate by giving us
Speaker 1: these extreme close ups of their eyes or their lips
Speaker 1: and making us focus really on what's being said.
Speaker 2: Yeah, particularly because the lips in the eyes are everything
Speaker 2: in this scene. It's Sarah narrating this scene with Kirk
Speaker 2: and Spock, cutting between Kirk's sad expression in his eyes
Speaker 2: welling up with tears as he's reliving one of the
Speaker 2: most awful moments in his whole, entire life. So the
Speaker 2: sequence concludes, Sarah realizes that he doesn't know what's going on,
Speaker 2: but then kirksys wait a minute, let's go to the tape,
Speaker 2: so they play back, and I didn't like this. By
Speaker 2: the way, I don't like when movies do this is
Speaker 2: to what they so they're what they're supposed to be doing.
Speaker 1: So hard would it be just to take the fucking
Speaker 1: two actors and get them on a fucking set and
Speaker 1: put a lockdown camera from a security position and refilm
Speaker 1: the scene. You could do it with stand ins.
Speaker 2: It's They're supposed to be replaying the security footage of
Speaker 2: Spock's last last minutes as he's saving the ship, but
Speaker 2: all they can do is playback the scenes from Star
Speaker 2: Trek two, which doesn't make any sense because it's cross
Speaker 2: cutting and different angles and things. I get it. They
Speaker 2: maybe didn't have the budget to refilm it as a
Speaker 2: security cam, but it still took me out of the
Speaker 2: scene a little bit.
Speaker 1: I don't even show the footage, just cut to them
Speaker 1: watching the footage.
Speaker 2: You could have done that. So eventually Kirk rewinds to
Speaker 2: the point where McCoy does the mind meld, and then
Speaker 2: the penny drops. Oh my god, that's why Bones has
Speaker 2: been acting so weird. It's because he has Spock's Katra,
Speaker 2: his spiritual essence in his mind, because that's what that's
Speaker 2: I guess that's what we're meant to believe he did
Speaker 2: before he saved the ship and killed himself effectively. At
Speaker 2: this point we cut to McCoy. I believe he's half
Speaker 2: acting like Spock, half acting like McCoy. He's trying to
Speaker 2: charter a ship off.
Speaker 1: Of It's like that movie All of Me with Yeah Martin,
Speaker 1: where Lily Tomlin is trapped in his body, except it's
Speaker 1: this hilarious performance by DeForest Kelly where half of him
Speaker 1: is acting very logical and having him is yelling at himself.
Speaker 1: I'm kidding that. No, none of that's happened.
Speaker 2: But it's but he is, because it's scrambled between Spock
Speaker 2: and McCoy, and he's saying things that Spock would say
Speaker 2: and so forth. He tries to commandeer a ship, charter
Speaker 2: a ship to get off the planet and go back
Speaker 2: to Genesis. But he's overheard by a Federation officer.
Speaker 1: Oh, are we not going to mention the greatest character
Speaker 1: in this movie? The fucking he tries to chart the Genesis. No,
Speaker 1: that guy with he was a makeup artist, by the way,
Speaker 1: and it's you can tell because the makeup is fucking
Speaker 1: on point. He put those little tiny feathers everywhere that
Speaker 1: are just like fluttering with everything he does. I love
Speaker 1: that character.
Speaker 2: He talks like Yoda. Everything he says is backwards. And
Speaker 2: when he's all for getting McCoy off the planet, but
Speaker 2: then when he mentions Genesis, he makes such a big
Speaker 2: deal about it. He freaks Genesis, this is this forbidden No,
Speaker 2: And that's when the Federation's.
Speaker 1: So worried about being caught talking about Genesis that he
Speaker 1: stands up and yells Genesis.
Speaker 2: Which everybody in the bar knows what he's talking about.
Speaker 2: This officer, this Federation security guy, grabs McCoy and we're
Speaker 2: led to believe he's going to be put into some
Speaker 2: sort of institution because he's acting crazy.
Speaker 1: No, he's like, hey, I don't think you want to
Speaker 1: be having that conversation, at which point Bones McCay should
Speaker 1: have said, don't have any fucking conversation I have about
Speaker 1: anything I want. I was there, motherfucker. I know what
Speaker 1: genesis is. I'll tell everybody.
Speaker 2: But then, but all he can do is try feebly
Speaker 2: to do the Vulcan neck pinch on the security guy,
Speaker 2: but because it's bones, he can't actually do it.
Speaker 1: Now here's the thing. Does the actual neck pinch? Is
Speaker 1: that just anyone can do that? Or do you have
Speaker 1: to be a Vulcan and boarded for that to happen.
Speaker 1: Is Are they saying that he's just too clumsy to
Speaker 1: try and do it doing that or he's saying because
Speaker 1: he's not an actual Vulcan doesn't work. I'm wondering.
Speaker 2: I think he's too clumsy. I think if you take
Speaker 2: the time to study the mystic arts of vulcan or
Speaker 2: on Vulcan, anyone can do it. I don't know that
Speaker 2: we've ever seen anybody but a Vulcan do it, but
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be surprised if they could.
Speaker 1: But if you're being guided by the spirit of a Vulcan,
Speaker 1: particularly when it's advanced to spok, you would think he
Speaker 1: would just wou he would have knocked that fuck her out.
Speaker 2: Could be but it doesn't work.
Speaker 1: I think you know what, he could have worked too,
Speaker 1: and actually could have worked. He could have just knocked
Speaker 1: that guy out, walked out of the bar. Would change nothing, Well,
Speaker 1: it would have, because they have to break him out.
Speaker 2: They have to break him out. Kirk has already sworn.
Speaker 1: So just rewrite it. That's always the answer. I think
Speaker 1: of Harve Bennett to do it, because Harve Bennett, they
Speaker 1: didn't include Carol Marcus as a character in this, who
Speaker 1: was a big character in the last movie. It's her
Speaker 1: son is involved in this, and they're like, we just
Speaker 1: couldn't find a place for her, Like he says, we couldn't.
Speaker 1: We couldn't rectify the idea that she would not have
Speaker 1: known that David was using unstable proto matter. And I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: then just write something different. What are you talking about.
Speaker 1: You just didn't want to muck up the works here
Speaker 1: with a superfluous character. You can just say that too.
Speaker 2: I did feel her absence because she is so prominent
Speaker 2: in part two. She's Kirk's old love interest. It just
Speaker 2: seems weird that she wouldn't still be part of the
Speaker 2: science team. That's it's weird, Genesis.
Speaker 1: It's weird that they give him a quasi love interest
Speaker 1: in the next film. That is, like waiting for him
Speaker 1: when they get back to Earth, or standing with him
Speaker 1: when they're receiving their accolades when it should have been
Speaker 1: Carol Marcus like welcoming him home. Yeah, where have you been?
Speaker 1: Thank you for saving everything Again, I'm still grieving over
Speaker 1: the loss of our sun, any our sun.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, if nothing else, that's their shared loss. She
Speaker 2: should be feeling it even more keenly than him, because.
Speaker 1: He actually she actually raised that job.
Speaker 2: She raised them. Anyway, as this is all happening, Savoc
Speaker 2: and David Marcus have beamed down because there's a life form.
Speaker 2: They've discovered a life form on the Genesis planet that
Speaker 2: should not be there. The captain refuses to beam it
Speaker 2: up because they don't want to risk contaminating the rism,
Speaker 2: so they beam them down to the planet. Now, the
Speaker 2: planet already seems like it's going through something. It seems
Speaker 2: to be a little bit weather stricken. They don't really
Speaker 2: know yet, but there's problems with the Genesis experiment. Nevertheless,
Speaker 2: they find the life form it actually originated from the
Speaker 2: photon torpedo coffin that they used for Spock.
Speaker 1: They open up that shell that is designed to house
Speaker 1: an explosive and probably dissolve easily. Somehow made it through
Speaker 1: the atmosphere of this new planet, crashed onto its rocky surface,
Speaker 1: and it's just sitting there, polished and looking wonderful.
Speaker 2: Boy, you are just hammering this movie, father blone, you
Speaker 2: know why don't do tell? Let's hear it.
Speaker 1: I think as much credit as Harve Bennett deserves for
Speaker 1: keeping this series going and for guiding it as well
Speaker 1: as he does, I think it was hubris for him
Speaker 1: to not hire a writer to just go I can
Speaker 1: do it. After Nicholas Meyer came in and saved his
Speaker 1: bacon and made that fucking movie what it was. And
Speaker 1: obviously nick Meyer didn' want anything to do with this
Speaker 1: movie because it undoes his movie. But how many dozens
Speaker 1: of fucking really good writers out there could have given
Speaker 1: you an emotional story that makes scientific sense.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of alighting eliting over thing like papering
Speaker 2: over things that you're not meant to think about too deeply,
Speaker 2: and I think that's probably the root of a lot
Speaker 2: of these sort of criticisms you're having with things moment
Speaker 2: to moment, and I can't argue with you. You're right,
Speaker 2: some of these things in isolation don't make sense, and
Speaker 2: it's the writing, and that's what are you gonna do?
Speaker 2: You're right. He should have had somebody. It doesn't necessarily
Speaker 2: have to be someone on the level of a Harlan Ellison,
Speaker 2: but surely somebody could have sat down and said, you
Speaker 2: know what, we're not getting from me to be an
Speaker 2: accounting for all these variables. So let's figure this out.
Speaker 2: Let's make this make sense scientifically and emotionally and action wise.
Speaker 1: George R. R. Martin was writing for the Twilight Zone
Speaker 1: eighty five. In fact, if they could have just called
Speaker 1: the offices at CBS of Twilight Zone eighty five and
Speaker 1: said send over anyone, and they would have turned this
Speaker 1: fucking screenplay into something great, and I wouldn't be thinking
Speaker 1: things like, wait, what the fuck is Spock exactly now?
Speaker 1: So it is corpse landed there and then it regenerated
Speaker 1: into a fetus, I guess, and then grew into a
Speaker 1: child with no sustenance whatsoever and no guidance for those
Speaker 1: early moments before we meet him. What the fuck is he?
Speaker 2: These are all good points and can't counter them. I'm
Speaker 2: accepting things more on face value, I think, than you are.
Speaker 1: And here's the thing about the katra. Yeah, okay, so
Speaker 1: if you transfer your mind into somebody and then your
Speaker 1: body is obliterated in some warp accident, what happens to
Speaker 1: your soul, to your cotra? It can't go back into
Speaker 1: your body. Can you find another dead body and go
Speaker 1: into that one? Is Is it a free for all
Speaker 1: with the Bultans? You just pick a corpse and go.
Speaker 2: I would assume that in that case, Let's assume for
Speaker 2: a minute that Spock is not shot onto the Genesis
Speaker 2: planet and his body is lost. He's good's gone, but
Speaker 2: the couture.
Speaker 1: Let's say they find his body that is completely shriveled
Speaker 1: from radiation. Okay, what happens next?
Speaker 2: I think just let's assume that the body's gone, they
Speaker 2: can't use it. I think at that point I would
Speaker 2: assume the ritual correct all of this, would merely release
Speaker 2: the spirit so that it can be free again, Like
Speaker 2: it's not bound inside, it's not warring with somebody's other
Speaker 2: for lack of like a coatra, it's not going to
Speaker 2: be stuck in someone's head while they're trying to live
Speaker 2: their life. I would assume they're going to release it.
Speaker 1: So Akatra is basically like a destination wedding, like no
Speaker 1: matter what, you're going to Vulcan.
Speaker 2: It's like the dating game Star Trek style. So anyway,
Speaker 2: let's progress here. They discover Spock's burial robes, but there's
Speaker 2: no body in the coffin, but they can still they
Speaker 2: still have these energy readings. So they go to investigated
Speaker 2: and by.
Speaker 1: The way, they got life readings on the planet that's
Speaker 1: filled with life. That's surprising.
Speaker 2: I did think that was odd because there's a raft
Speaker 2: of kin.
Speaker 1: It makes sense they're looking for no life anywhere, and
Speaker 1: they're like, fuck, we detected a microbe. Now we got
Speaker 1: to go check it out. Like we're getting life signs
Speaker 1: from Genesis that planet with all of the fucking jungles
Speaker 1: and forests and seas.
Speaker 2: And they know that there's increased aging on the planet
Speaker 2: because when they first get to this photon tube, there's
Speaker 2: all these little slug like creatures swarming around it, and
Speaker 2: David Marcus goes there, you go, there was some surface
Speaker 2: level microbes that aged incredibly rapidly, so there's your life form.
Speaker 2: And then later after a few scenes later, when Krug
Speaker 2: is on the planet looking for the scientists, he comes
Speaker 2: across the photon tube coffin. Also, now these slugs have
Speaker 2: grown into like huge, they're like they're almost like boa constrictors. Now,
Speaker 2: So I think the idea is that any life that's
Speaker 2: on the planet, or originally it's on the planet, grows
Speaker 2: at a rapid rate, including this Spock life form whatever
Speaker 2: you want to call it. If it's not actually him,
Speaker 2: it's made from his DNA, I guess.
Speaker 1: And they're using fairy dust. I don't know, you just
Speaker 1: go with that because it makes no scientific sense whatsoever.
Speaker 2: It doesn't really. But at this point, like we're the
Speaker 2: stories operating on several different fronts. We have Savog and
Speaker 2: David looking for effectively Spock. We have Kruge on his
Speaker 2: way to the Genesis planet to deal with the scientists,
Speaker 2: and now we have Kirk and company trying to figure
Speaker 2: out how they're going to get off off of Earth
Speaker 2: and get to the Genesis planet. And by the way,
Speaker 2: Spring McCoy who's now in custody because he's acting erradically.
Speaker 1: Wow, this sounds actually being action packed movie. If we
Speaker 1: spent any time, any appreciable time with any of the
Speaker 1: groups and learned their plans and knew what their plot was,
Speaker 1: then this could have been a great movie, and if
Speaker 1: any of the scientific stuff made sense.
Speaker 2: In fact, this is my favorite part of the movie,
Speaker 2: getting the gang back together. Yeah, because who doesn't love
Speaker 2: a little caper where you get the gang back together
Speaker 2: and they have to work together to figure out how
Speaker 2: to accomplish a goal.
Speaker 1: And here's something novel and something that sets the tone
Speaker 1: for all of Star Trek from here on out, thanks
Speaker 1: to Leonard Nimoy. Hey, maybe let's give everyone a moment.
Speaker 1: Let's give every cast member an actual moment in this
Speaker 1: movie instead of just saying paling frequencies open or warp
Speaker 1: factor six.
Speaker 2: There's more of that in this We're gonna see even more,
Speaker 2: I think, probably for me. The apotheosis of that comes
Speaker 2: in Star Trek four, which we're not talking about, but
Speaker 2: we'll get to it. But you're right, every character gets
Speaker 2: a little more of a signature in this. For example,
Speaker 2: so Kirk leaves the Admiral. The admiral tells him, under
Speaker 2: no uncertain terms, you can't leave, and then he meets
Speaker 2: up with Sulu and Check, and he says, they told
Speaker 2: us we can't leave, so I guess we're gonna leave.
Speaker 2: So now he's going. He's going rogue, and he's gonna
Speaker 2: get off the planet, come hell or high water.
Speaker 1: Man, I love a going rogue story.
Speaker 2: It's fantastic. So he and everybody's behind him one hundred percent.
Speaker 1: They're gonna go fucking common dear the Enterprise. Goddamn right,
Speaker 1: Except here's the thing, HB when you really think about it, right,
Speaker 1: So he goes to the Admiral Morrow, who's the head
Speaker 1: of Starfleet, and Morrow says, no, I'm telling you you
Speaker 1: cannot take the Enterprise and go back to Genesis. It's
Speaker 1: no way. And Kirk doesn't James T. Kirk, fucking renowned
Speaker 1: captain of the Enterprise, doesn't know anyone with a fucking starship.
Speaker 2: Not only that, I agree with you that, but the
Speaker 2: bigger oversight, in my opinion is, look like, if we're
Speaker 2: gonna cut to the chase, they do eventually common to
Speaker 2: you the Enterprise, Scotty has automated it so they can
Speaker 2: operate with the skeleton crew, and they escape and they
Speaker 2: set course for Genesis. My problem is Starfleet's not going
Speaker 2: to try to chase them. They know where they're headed.
Speaker 2: But it's as if they just say, look, they're too far,
Speaker 2: too fast, we can't catch them. That's bullshit. They have
Speaker 2: warp drive.
Speaker 1: They can get And that's the problem with all of
Speaker 1: the Harve Bennett movies. That's always his excuse. It's the
Speaker 1: Enterprise is the only ship in the area. What are
Speaker 1: they not a star fleet?
Speaker 2: That's the thing.
Speaker 1: I've seen them.
Speaker 2: Fighting the Borg.
Speaker 1: There seem to be a whole bunch of fucking starfleet ships.
Speaker 1: At any point they can call them all back, like
Speaker 1: if it's actually a dire situation. But in Wrath of
Speaker 1: Khan it was you're the only one out there. They
Speaker 1: do it again in part five. You guys are the
Speaker 1: only ship available. It's like they're on Earth at the
Speaker 1: beginning of fucking Star Trek five. They're the only ship
Speaker 1: available on Earth? Who's defending Earth?
Speaker 2: That to me just made no sense as I'm watching this, like,
Speaker 2: why wouldn't they they go in pursuit. They know. It's
Speaker 2: not as if they're just setting core they don't know
Speaker 2: where they're headed. They know exactly where they're headed and
Speaker 2: why they're headed there. Because he told the admiral that's
Speaker 2: what he needs to do.
Speaker 1: Nevertheless, check off. Do you have that old run about?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, of course we can all that it has
Speaker 1: warp capabilities. Right, yeah, we can be there by fucking
Speaker 1: six o'clock. Let's go.
Speaker 2: Let's do it. But they have to get this. They
Speaker 2: have to get the enterprise. That's inexplicable to me, but anyway.
Speaker 1: They need a big surprise at the end of this
Speaker 1: movie is what they need. They need a show stopper.
Speaker 1: And of course, oh it's my poor enterprise.
Speaker 2: It is, and it's an incredible moment. We'll get to it.
Speaker 2: But you're right, that's the only reason they need it.
Speaker 2: So for right or wrong, they steal the enterprise. They
Speaker 2: the gang does their thing. They each have a little
Speaker 2: part to play. They're basically like, they're beating up other officers.
Speaker 2: They're commandeering the transporter pad. Everything works, everybody's on the
Speaker 2: ship except for Ahura, who is going to meet them
Speaker 2: at the rendezvous. She says, which effectively means I'll see
Speaker 2: you at the end of the movie.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah. Unfortunately, she does have a good moment where
Speaker 1: she blocks that guy up in the closet that she
Speaker 1: does she's wonderful.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's working in this transporter room and with this young,
Speaker 2: fresh faced officer, and the officer is basically like saying,
Speaker 2: you were I need action. It's okay, piece and quiet.
Speaker 2: It's okay for people like you on the downside of
Speaker 2: your career, but not me. So you already get the
Speaker 2: sense that she's gonna put this guy in his place.
Speaker 2: And then when Kirk and company come chomping in and
Speaker 2: this guy's freaked out, holy shit, it's Captain Kirk, and
Speaker 2: she's that's all well and good, but you're gonna be
Speaker 2: in the closet while all this happens. She's like, closet,
Speaker 2: what are you talking about? And she pulls a phaser
Speaker 2: and says, get in the fucking closet. Basically, she totally
Speaker 2: puts the guy in his place, and it's a good moment.
Speaker 2: But nevertheless, she's not in the movie for the whole
Speaker 2: of the meat of it.
Speaker 1: I agree, she's not sitting in the background every once
Speaker 1: in a while saying channel open.
Speaker 2: I'm kidding nothing but static captain.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'd rather her not appear and actually do
Speaker 1: something than just be a prop.
Speaker 2: Fair that's fair, but again, Scotty has automated the enterprise.
Speaker 2: This will become important later so that they can operate
Speaker 2: it with just Kirk, McCoy, Chekhov and Sulu.
Speaker 1: And he's shoveling the coal into the fucking.
Speaker 2: So off the Enterprise goes. Meanwhile, Krug has made it
Speaker 2: to the Genesis planet and I sort of misspoke. He
Speaker 2: and David are still on the planet dealing with Spock,
Speaker 2: and Krug has told his gunner shoot at the grism,
Speaker 2: but just target the engines and they switch and.
Speaker 1: To be honest, are right next to the fucking bridge.
Speaker 2: Because of the design. The whole thing blows up and
Speaker 2: he goes like, what the hell did you just do?
Speaker 2: And the guy says it was a lucky shot, and Krug,
Speaker 2: being the pragmatist that he is, pulls out a like
Speaker 2: a phaser boop just kills the guy. He's like, okay,
Speaker 2: you want to make that mistake again? Fine?
Speaker 1: What are you making jokes? What do you think? This
Speaker 1: is the f iteration exactly?
Speaker 2: This is I gave you an order. I mean, here
Speaker 2: on the bridge.
Speaker 1: Of a fucking klingon bird of prey, we don't even
Speaker 1: know what our affiliation is. You're gonna make jokes.
Speaker 2: So we can see how ruthless Krug is from this.
Speaker 2: He's willing to kill his.
Speaker 1: Own say the wrong thing card, and it.
Speaker 2: Has to be said. Like again, people I think, mostly
Speaker 2: at the time, could not reconcile Reverend Jim with Krug.
Speaker 2: It was very hard for people.
Speaker 1: And now I don't think it's on anyone's mind, honestly,
Speaker 1: and I don't know how it could be. And I
Speaker 1: loved his performance then and I fucking love it now,
Speaker 1: and it's one of my favorite Klingon performances. It in
Speaker 1: fact sets the precedent for what Clingons should be for
Speaker 1: the rest of the shoeries.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but we've also, like you said earlier, we've seen
Speaker 2: him as Judge Doom. We've seen him in all these parts.
Speaker 2: We know that he has range, so naturally I were
Speaker 2: willing to accept him in a different part and I
Speaker 2: thought he I thought he was fine. There are I'd
Speaker 2: be lying if I said there weren't a few moments
Speaker 2: that reminded me of Reverend Jim.
Speaker 1: But that's on you.
Speaker 2: What are you gonna do? That's on me exactly. That's
Speaker 2: my personal bias, and I'm okay with that.
Speaker 1: I put that aside, you know, because here's the thing
Speaker 1: after this next generation really leans into the first of all,
Speaker 1: they kept filling all of their Klingons mouths with too
Speaker 1: much teeth, so all of their actors had to form
Speaker 1: sentences around these stupid dental appliances, and they really leaned
Speaker 1: hard into the honor and the anger of them. But
Speaker 1: the honor as like a as a word like this guy,
Speaker 1: as ruthless and as crazy as he is, Christopher Lloyd
Speaker 1: gives him an honorable quality. There's a weird nobility to him.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about it when we get to the sort
Speaker 1: of actual exchange between him and Kirk. There's something about
Speaker 1: his performance in that particular scene that makes me think, God,
Speaker 1: there's a lot going on in this guy. This isn't
Speaker 1: just the I need to kill the Federation, but this
Speaker 1: isn't the fucking Klingons from Star Trek five.
Speaker 2: Wait five, meaning the are you talking about the Undiscovered Country?
Speaker 1: No, I'm talking about the Final Frontier, the trio of
Speaker 1: Klingon idiots in that the Mad Magazine version of Klingons.
Speaker 2: That's true. He has basically has. So Savig and David
Speaker 2: find Spock, they realize who it.
Speaker 1: Is he it's a little boy.
Speaker 2: He starts as a little boy, but you see him
Speaker 2: grow over the course. And what they also discover is
Speaker 2: that the planet is become very unstable. And Savag questions
Speaker 2: David on this and what you'd said earlier. He confesses
Speaker 2: that they used He used proto matter in the Genesis matrix,
Speaker 2: which she expositions, isn't that this highly unstable material that
Speaker 2: scientists have denounced is unethical to use? Blah blah blah,
Speaker 2: and he, I guess it's not unlike his father, as
Speaker 2: she says. He says, Look, it would have taken me
Speaker 2: years to make the progress that I needed to make
Speaker 2: on Genesis if at all I cut corners. And this
Speaker 2: is the result. So what we have here is Genesis
Speaker 2: is now effectively a dying planet. It's going to die
Speaker 2: within hours of the days of not hours, probably hours.
Speaker 2: And the aging that's going on, the rapid aging, is
Speaker 2: connected somehow to Spock and his rapid growth as from
Speaker 2: an adolescent into a person and a may couple of things. Yeah, smiling,
Speaker 2: I can see it. What's up?
Speaker 1: Okay? The Genesis planet itself, like you mentioned earlier, like
Speaker 1: as soon as they get there, they realized that something
Speaker 1: odd is going on in that the deserts have snow
Speaker 1: in them, snows and yeah, like it's basically all these
Speaker 1: different ecosystems are crashing into each other and they shouldn't
Speaker 1: be happening than they are. This entire movie was shot
Speaker 1: on sound stages at the Paramountain Lot. It was a huge, huge,
Speaker 1: fucking mistake for the cinematographer kept saying, I really wanted
Speaker 1: us to go to Kauai. I thought we really should
Speaker 1: have shot it in Kauai, which is clearly I just
Speaker 1: wanted to go to Hawaii, and I understand, and I
Speaker 1: understand that, but the argument was made, because we were
Speaker 1: going to be dealing with these bizarre environments, we have
Speaker 1: to do it on a sound stage because that's where
Speaker 1: we can control it. And I my attitude is, you
Speaker 1: can fucking get a snow machine out into Kauhai or
Speaker 1: the snow looked fake anyway.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the cacti looked really fake. There's parts of the
Speaker 2: planet that don't hold up effects wise.
Speaker 1: I think I'm not saying it it's a failure. Overall,
Speaker 1: a lot of it looks really good. It's just that
Speaker 1: when I think to the like the one shot at
Speaker 1: the end of Star Trek two of the planet where
Speaker 1: it's clearly where outdoors and it looks like a jungle environment.
Speaker 1: Wanted some of that. They you can't send a fucking
Speaker 1: camera crew with one actor just to have some like
Speaker 1: pickup shots of running through the jungle. Like I understand,
Speaker 1: money was tight and everything, but it's.
Speaker 2: Purely a budgetary thing, because if we've learned nothing else,
Speaker 2: it's that every movie they tightened those purse strings even more,
Speaker 2: which doesn't make any sense to me, because these movies
Speaker 2: were very part profitable. I don't know that they were
Speaker 2: ever maybe Star Trek five was maybe not as well received,
Speaker 2: but I think they all made money. So I don't
Speaker 2: really get the notion that they're going to try to
Speaker 2: become more and more lean as they go along. It
Speaker 2: feels like they should have been investing more into this world,
Speaker 2: into the.
Speaker 1: Look of it. Well, what's crazy is so that they
Speaker 1: got this The budget is four million more than the
Speaker 1: previous film, and they can actually stretch it a lot
Speaker 1: more because so much of the sets are already built,
Speaker 1: and the costumes are already created, and a lot of
Speaker 1: the effects are like the models have already been built,
Speaker 1: so they actually spent a lot more on the effects
Speaker 1: this time, so they had a little bit more money
Speaker 1: to play around with, but still, in comparison to what
Speaker 1: Motion Picture had five years earlier, that was over double
Speaker 1: the budget of this movie. But my point is Leonard
Speaker 1: Nimoy should have just grabbed the cinematographer and his two actors,
Speaker 1: jumped in a van a shuttle, call it the Galileo,
Speaker 1: and just go to a botanical garden and run around
Speaker 1: for one day, just getting pickup shots of them standing
Speaker 1: with the sun shining on them and greenery, and then
Speaker 1: cut that into the movie instead of just the clearly
Speaker 1: evocative of fucking the nineteen sixties series with their cardboard sets.
Speaker 2: What's interesting is we've talked about the fact that these
Speaker 2: movies and in fact the original TV show were all
Speaker 2: to a certain degree remastered, right Obviously the motion picture
Speaker 2: was the biggest recipient of that where they added effects,
Speaker 2: and why didn't they consider doing that for this They
Speaker 2: could have actually had a real rendering of the Genesis
Speaker 2: planet in all of its horrific glory, blowing itself apart.
Speaker 2: That would have been pretty cool to see that with
Speaker 2: more modern effects. I think it would have worked really well.
Speaker 1: I bet there's a fan who's done it, but I
Speaker 1: don't think we're going to get an official anything from Paramount.
Speaker 1: They can justify it with motion picture because it hadn't
Speaker 1: been finished at the time, and nobody's really minding the
Speaker 1: store when it comes to the original series, so they
Speaker 1: couldn't get away from They've gone away with it when
Speaker 1: they got away with it. But I don't think anyone's
Speaker 1: petitioning them to go in this movie and make it
Speaker 1: look more real.
Speaker 2: But it's a shame because I think a little bit
Speaker 2: of a spit polish and I think this movie would
Speaker 2: go up in people's estimation.
Speaker 1: We put it to you fans and fan editors.
Speaker 2: Someone somewhere must have thought about this already. But anyhow,
Speaker 2: so Krug sends basically takes Savoc Spock in David Prisoner.
Speaker 2: He sends. He beams down to the ship to the
Speaker 2: planet from the ship, which is cloaked, and he's threatening
Speaker 2: them with torture if they don't tell him about the
Speaker 2: secret of the Genesis device. At this moment, the Enterprise
Speaker 2: makes its way into the sector. They radio down and
Speaker 2: say Captain Krug, there's a Federation ship. So he beams
Speaker 2: up but there's still a contingent of Klingons that are
Speaker 2: holding them prisoner on the on the surface of the planet.
Speaker 2: This is maybe my second favorite part of the movie,
Speaker 2: where the we've all gotten used to the cloaking effect
Speaker 2: of the Bird of Prey right where it gets watery
Speaker 2: looking and ouchy and it's but the thing that we
Speaker 2: that often gets lost is it's cloaked, but you can
Speaker 2: still if you're looking in the just the right spot,
Speaker 2: at just the right moment, you can see maybe the
Speaker 2: that there's something wavy, like there's an outline of something
Speaker 2: you can't quite make out. And what that's what happens
Speaker 2: here is the enterprise is there. They're like, I don't
Speaker 2: see anything, and they're looking through the viewport and this
Speaker 2: is the only time I can remember them ever doing
Speaker 2: this with Klingon ships. Kirk's looking through the viewport with
Speaker 2: Sulu when he says, there, look right there, you see
Speaker 2: that at Starfield. It looks like it's there's something funny
Speaker 2: about it. He says, yea, almost like there's something there,
Speaker 2: and that gives them the intuition that, okay, wait a
Speaker 2: minute here, there's something going on. So they declare red alert.
Speaker 2: They don't put up their shields though, and the Klingon
Speaker 2: ship decloaks, thinking that okay, they're just a sitting duck
Speaker 2: waiting for us to kill them. But when they decloak,
Speaker 2: the Enterprise is already readied their weapons, so they get
Speaker 2: a really good shot off. It's actually kind of a
Speaker 2: neat little not a dogfight, but it's an interesting little
Speaker 2: broadsides between the two ships. And it's logical because they
Speaker 2: can see the thing fluttering out in space. They know
Speaker 2: where to look now. They they both get some good
Speaker 2: licks each other, but but the Enterprise is no.
Speaker 1: The Enterprise fucking decimates them like it shuts them down immediately.
Speaker 1: And then and then Krug very wisely says, why haven't
Speaker 1: they finished us?
Speaker 2: And that's is that when Kirk says he radios for
Speaker 2: their surrender, he's bluffing yeah, And the Klingon ship fires
Speaker 2: back at them. Unfortunately it hits the automation that Scotty
Speaker 2: worked up, so they're completely dead in the water. So
Speaker 2: Krug informs him that there's hostages on the surface of
Speaker 2: the planet and if you don't hand over the Genesis materials,
Speaker 2: I'm going to execute them one at a time. And
Speaker 2: sure enough, the guy they're going to execute savag actually,
Speaker 2: but David, being the heroic son.
Speaker 1: Of Yeah, he has to make up for the fact
Speaker 1: that he caused this whole thing.
Speaker 2: He's atoning for the fact he knows that the Genesis
Speaker 2: failure is his fault and how many lives have.
Speaker 1: The horrible randomness of this murder must be justified.
Speaker 2: Right, pretty much, he gets but unfortunately he fights back
Speaker 2: against the Klingon but he's killed.
Speaker 1: Oh come on, man, like that was every a Klingon
Speaker 1: warrior versus this kid from the valley.
Speaker 2: He puts up a fight, but he's killed. In this
Speaker 2: complete the Rex.
Speaker 1: It's really horrible too, because Leonard Nimoy frames it in
Speaker 1: such a way that David falls just out of frame,
Speaker 1: but he kind of alerts his just a little bit
Speaker 1: up when the knife comes down.
Speaker 2: It's horrifying you hear him like, because it's it's a
Speaker 2: blade that he's stabbed with and some of the there's
Speaker 2: a shot with Kirk that I think is one of
Speaker 2: Nimoy's best in this where it's first of all, he
Speaker 2: does the whole thing where he several times he says,
Speaker 2: you cling on, bestards, you've killed my son, and he
Speaker 2: stumbles around a little bit and does that. But then
Speaker 2: at one point they cut back and it's from behind.
Speaker 2: Kirk is sitting in the captain's chair. You don't see him.
Speaker 2: All you see are his arms, and I think McCoy
Speaker 2: is trying to comfort him, and all you see is
Speaker 2: Kirk's arm come up and shove him away, as if
Speaker 2: to say, look, I need to grieve, but I'm still
Speaker 2: the captain of this vessel and I need to deal
Speaker 2: with this. But the way that it's framed and the
Speaker 2: way you see him in the chair, it's a one
Speaker 2: You get the grief and the resolve all in one shot.
Speaker 2: It's a wonderful shot. All credit to leonardnimoy for that.
Speaker 1: And I learned that Vulcans are exactly the best and
Speaker 1: worst people to deliver news of someone dying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she gives it.
Speaker 1: To There's no fucking around, And that's the best and
Speaker 1: worst thing about it. It's there's no prevaricating, there's no
Speaker 1: have a seat, there's no are you okay? It's David
Speaker 1: is dead.
Speaker 2: She says David is dead, and she again, she's vulcan.
Speaker 2: But what I love about Robin Curtis is that you
Speaker 2: can see the emotion behind the eyes, behind that effort
Speaker 2: to stay logical and unemotional. I think she plays that
Speaker 2: really well.
Speaker 1: Oh she got hired for those eyes because you can
Speaker 1: see everything she's thinking when she's doing it, and you
Speaker 1: can see nothing. You can see that she's thinking, but
Speaker 1: you have no idea what she's thinking.
Speaker 2: It's remarkable. So Crue, who gives Actually this is the
Speaker 2: line I think maybe that you're thinking of. Krug says, Look,
Speaker 2: I'm going to give you a minute to.
Speaker 1: He says, please give us a minute so I can
Speaker 1: inform my crew. And he says, I give you two
Speaker 1: minutes for your gallant crew.
Speaker 2: For your gallant crew.
Speaker 1: And which is a line I've been misquoting to you
Speaker 1: for years as a line that came from Tom.
Speaker 2: That's because he just gives him like thirty seconds.
Speaker 1: Or something sixty seconds.
Speaker 2: So Kirk, again a little bit of an aside, Krug
Speaker 2: doesn't know what's happening. Kirk, unbeknownst to Krug, has started
Speaker 2: the self destruct sequence on the Enterprise, which at the
Speaker 2: time was like, oh my god, Kirk is going to
Speaker 2: blow up his beloved enterprise. What is this coming to?
Speaker 2: Oh my god?
Speaker 1: So he does this I don't know. Didn't you feel
Speaker 1: like it was totally appropriate at that point, the fact
Speaker 1: that they had surrendered to the fucking Klingons and the
Speaker 1: Klingons were going to come aboard their ship. I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: fucking blow them up.
Speaker 2: I wasn't. I'm not suggesting that it wasn't appropriate given
Speaker 2: the circumstances. I'm just saying the fact that it got
Speaker 2: to that point. This is almost like the Kobayashi Maru
Speaker 2: all over again, where he's got he has no choice.
Speaker 2: He can't the ship is defenseless, he can't bluff his
Speaker 2: way out of this. All he can do is try
Speaker 2: and formulate this plan to take some of them with
Speaker 2: them and give himself a fighting chance to survive this situation.
Speaker 2: So he does this, and Krug is preparing a boarding
Speaker 2: party to get on board the enterprise of eight or
Speaker 2: nine Klingons.
Speaker 1: My favorite moment in the entire movie coming up there.
Speaker 2: It's great Kirk transports down to the planet. Krug doesn't
Speaker 2: know this. The boarding party lands on to the Enterprise
Speaker 2: and the guy one of them is He's like, there's
Speaker 2: no one here. He says, they must be hiding. He says,
Speaker 2: I don't I'm on the bridge. All that I hear
Speaker 2: is the computer talking, and Krug says, what's it saying?
Speaker 2: You can already tell that. He's like, something is not
Speaker 2: right here, and he's like you. Then you hear the
Speaker 2: computer say five four, continuing, and Krug just goes, get
Speaker 2: out of there, get out. It's too late. The thing
Speaker 2: blows up. It's a great moment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, awesome. How could anyone seek fucking reverende Jimmy the
Speaker 1: task here? It's like, this is Commander Krug freaking out
Speaker 1: over his men.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So the Enterprise blows up except for part of
Speaker 2: the hull and the nay cell.
Speaker 1: The saucer explodes.
Speaker 2: What you're saying, the saucer explodes and the rest of
Speaker 2: the ship. This effect, actually, I thought was really good too.
Speaker 2: Is you cut to the planet's surface where Kirk and
Speaker 2: McCoy and everybody they're there looking up. They can see
Speaker 2: the remains of the Enterprise burning up in the atmosphere
Speaker 2: as it crashes into the planet, and it's just this
Speaker 2: awesome trail of smoke and fire and debris. And Kirk
Speaker 2: looks up at that and he says, my god, what
Speaker 2: have I done? And Makoi says something like what you
Speaker 2: always do, which is use death as a fighting chance
Speaker 2: to live or something to that effect. But as a viewer,
Speaker 2: you're like, holy shit, Like the Enterprise, this safe haven,
Speaker 2: this thing that could never say die, has been blown up.
Speaker 2: It was quite a moment.
Speaker 1: Don't It was never about the Enterprise. It was always
Speaker 1: about these peoples, which I say, fuck you guys, how
Speaker 1: dare you blow up the Enterprise?
Speaker 2: That's good.
Speaker 1: And by the way, that was the big secret that
Speaker 1: they kept under wraps, that they've strained mightily to keep
Speaker 1: from getting out there. And then the paramount publicity department
Speaker 1: puts it in the fucking trailer that.
Speaker 2: The Enterprise was blown up.
Speaker 1: The tagline was witnessed the final voyage of the starship Enterprise,
Speaker 1: and then they showed the scene of the hull hurtling
Speaker 1: towards us and the saucer completely decimated.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's marketing for you, Jesus Christ. That sucks's I.
Speaker 1: Would have said, oh you're going to do that, We're
Speaker 1: going to begin in the movie with the Enterprise exploding.
Speaker 1: Then fuck that.
Speaker 2: That's right, it's right. Let's just get out of the way, Kirk.
Speaker 1: You cannot take the Enterprise okay, self destruct the enterprise.
Speaker 2: It was like with part two. Everyone had a suspicion
Speaker 2: that Spock was going to die, so they have this
Speaker 2: fake Kobyashi Maru thing where that kind of Oh, of
Speaker 2: course he died, but it was only because of the
Speaker 2: stupid simulation. He's not really dead. Of course that's not
Speaker 2: the way it went. But anyhow, Kirk makes his way
Speaker 2: to where the hostages are being held, and I think
Speaker 2: Spock even takes one of them out. He's now like
Speaker 2: super strong, and he throws one of them into this
Speaker 2: fireball that is erupted from the ground because the planet
Speaker 2: is completely breaking apart all around them.
Speaker 1: Hell yeah. And Kirk his first action I thought was
Speaker 1: a bit unusual, where he took David's corpse and he
Speaker 1: buried it in the planet and said, bring him back,
Speaker 1: bring him back.
Speaker 2: That's right, where's the Genesis wave? Now they dispatch the
Speaker 2: rest of the the Klingons, but Krug beams down dum. I. Actually,
Speaker 2: he actually has another line that I really like, which
Speaker 2: is they're gonna be he He's going to transport the
Speaker 2: prisoners up to the Klingon ship, but actually would not.
Speaker 2: Spock and Kirk says why don't you have them to
Speaker 2: take the vulcan also, And he says no, And he
Speaker 2: says why, and Krug says, because you wish it. Krug's
Speaker 2: you know what, there's something about you wanting me to
Speaker 2: transport that guy up. I'm not going to do it
Speaker 2: just because you want to do it. He's a really
Speaker 2: agree He's a really very smart, very savvy, very what's
Speaker 2: the word. He's not as rogue and unstable as one
Speaker 2: might expect because it's quote unquote Reverend Jim. This guy's
Speaker 2: a pretty he's a force to be reckoned with.
Speaker 1: He is a way more vicious and mean character than
Speaker 1: what we had in the previous film, which is a
Speaker 1: very operation performance by Ricardo Maltibon, And I think everyone
Speaker 1: loves that sort of level of theatrics. But here's a
Speaker 1: real villain, and a really formidable one at that. Like, ultimately,
Speaker 1: Cohn was a big fucking blowhard. He didn't know what
Speaker 1: he had one ship and he didn't know what to
Speaker 1: do with it. Here I will.
Speaker 2: Only point to the crew of the space Station Regular
Speaker 2: one that had their throats slit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he had a bunch of murderous thugs, so fucking
Speaker 1: so did krug Man.
Speaker 2: The thing. The difference I think is that Krug has
Speaker 2: a sense of honor. I think the fact that he's
Speaker 2: willing to kill one of his own crewmen because they
Speaker 2: screwed up, they didn't follow orders and they destroyed the ship.
Speaker 2: I think that's Noble's the thing.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that it's easy to get behind Kahn
Speaker 1: and have fun with that character. There's fun to be had.
Speaker 1: There is no fun with Krug.
Speaker 2: No, no, I would agree with you. There's no there's
Speaker 2: no operatic performance to get behind like you have with
Speaker 2: Ricardo Montalban.
Speaker 1: Like you said, it's that will be in Star Trek
Speaker 1: six with Christopher Plumber. That's what people were hoping for,
Speaker 1: a continuation of the villains of Star Trek when they
Speaker 1: got what was an actual threat.
Speaker 2: Sure, and I can tell you that's one of my
Speaker 2: least favorite parts of Star Trek six.
Speaker 1: Just a little bit of a giant slice of Dixie
Speaker 1: Ham that Christopher Plumber decided he could get away with
Speaker 1: because it's a space movie.
Speaker 2: We'll get there. So effectively becomes a mono a mono
Speaker 2: battle between Kirk and Krug at this point, as the
Speaker 2: planet is destroying itself, all around them, and there's no surprise,
Speaker 2: Kirk gets the upper hand. The thing I hate, though,
Speaker 2: about their battle is what happens is that Krug has
Speaker 2: fallen off of a cliff and he's hanging on barely,
Speaker 2: and Kirk does the thing give me your hand, and
Speaker 2: Krug uses this as an opportunity to try to pull
Speaker 2: him down to and then Kirk does this thing that
Speaker 2: I think is so cringey where he goes I have
Speaker 2: had just about enough of you, and he's punctuating it
Speaker 2: with boots to the face of Kruge. It's so goofy.
Speaker 2: The lines are goofy is written, they're goofy the way
Speaker 2: he says them. It didn't have to be there. I
Speaker 2: don't know it just it left me cringing.
Speaker 1: HP quick autobiographical pause. Before I had seen this movie,
Speaker 1: it had been out, but I hadn't yet gone to
Speaker 1: the theater. I had the nerdiest friend you could ever
Speaker 1: imagine in grade school if you looked nerd up in
Speaker 1: the dictionary. This was the kid Okay, who had seen
Speaker 1: the movie several times on opening weekend and told me
Speaker 1: every plot point in minute detail, and regaled me with
Speaker 1: this portion of the movie acting out the I kick
Speaker 1: have had enough kick of you kick right, and kept
Speaker 1: telling me how awesome it was, and I thought, God,
Speaker 1: that sounds terrible, and then I saw the movie went ooh,
Speaker 1: that's terrible.
Speaker 2: It's bad. No officer with the pedigree and the experience
Speaker 2: of Kirk is going to waste his breath on some stock.
Speaker 1: I have had enough of you. How about you killed
Speaker 1: my son? You motherfucker, burn in hell or whatever passes
Speaker 1: for it on Klingon.
Speaker 2: You bastard. There's any number of things he could have said,
Speaker 2: just to dispatch him and make it meaningful. But either way,
Speaker 2: he kicks Krug off of the off the cliff. He
Speaker 2: falls into a lava sea that's erupted.
Speaker 1: Model of Christopher Lloyd falls into a lava.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he's gone.
Speaker 1: Then, by way, that's the biggest crime of the movie
Speaker 1: is killing Krug because he should have kept coming back.
Speaker 1: It should have been him in part six. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: imagine if the Klingon Empire promoted that guy and he
Speaker 1: shows up on the bridge of the fucking enterprise. What's
Speaker 1: going on, Kirk?
Speaker 2: That would have been great. Instead of Chang, you have Krug. Wow,
Speaker 2: that would have been that never occurred. To me, blahlah, blahlah.
Speaker 2: That would have been stupendous.
Speaker 1: Imagine Nicholas my writing that movie.
Speaker 2: Holy Moly, because you wouldn't have had any of that
Speaker 2: flowery speech bullshit. It would have just been, look, we
Speaker 2: know what this guy's capable of, and we're getting ahead
Speaker 2: of ourselves. But that would have given Kirk real reason
Speaker 2: not to trust any of these guys, because this is
Speaker 2: the guy that killed my son and you want me
Speaker 2: to invite him on the ship for drinks.
Speaker 1: He got promoted based on his experience on Genesis in
Speaker 1: which he killed my son. These are the people we're
Speaker 1: dealing with.
Speaker 2: Let's put a pin in that. We'll get back to
Speaker 2: that when we get to Star Trek six. But in
Speaker 2: this case, he Kirk makes his way back to Spock,
Speaker 2: who's still there, and this was actually very creative on
Speaker 2: Kirk's party. He picks up the calmlink to the Bird
Speaker 2: of Prey and he speaks Klingon back to Heates, basically
Speaker 2: Krug saying maltz one to beam out, two to beam up,
Speaker 2: and he goes up and I think they've already taken
Speaker 2: like they've already taken prisoner. The other Klingons on the vessel.
Speaker 2: There's no danger. They already had control of the ship.
Speaker 1: I'd like to point out that moment in the movie
Speaker 1: when Kirk calls up to the Klingon craft and says
Speaker 1: Jory two was the moment the linguist realized this is
Speaker 1: going to work. Because when Krug says it, it's subtitled.
Speaker 1: And then they chose not the subtitle at the second time,
Speaker 1: but the audience made the leap and when oh, we've
Speaker 1: heard that, we know what that means in Klingon, and
Speaker 1: he thought this can work as a language from now on.
Speaker 2: That's interesting. I didn't realize that. I think for me
Speaker 2: this the subtitle is just the way it works. Are
Speaker 2: always on, so I would not have noticed that. But
Speaker 2: that's pretty cool. I still can't get over that. The
Speaker 2: language of the Klingons, which is something that is seeped
Speaker 2: into pop culture to the point where it's a joke
Speaker 2: on sitcoms now, like the Big Bang Theory or something,
Speaker 2: but it all started here. It's crazy to me. Anyway.
Speaker 2: They take the Bird of Prey back to Vulcan to
Speaker 2: to do this ceremony to restore Spock's Katra to his body,
Speaker 2: and it's That's actually one of my favorite shots of
Speaker 2: the whole movie. Not my favorite part, but the shot
Speaker 2: itself is amazing.
Speaker 1: Oh, with the spotlights hitting the fucking the wings of
Speaker 1: the bird of prey.
Speaker 2: When it comes down, when it lands, when it comes
Speaker 2: in for a landing and lands on Vulcan. It's vulcan
Speaker 2: Is in all of its sort of red sand glory,
Speaker 2: and you have this bird of Prey come in for
Speaker 2: a landing. It all looks really the matlines aren't as
Speaker 2: thick as we've seen on some of these miniatures. It looked, really,
Speaker 2: it looked glorious, was the right.
Speaker 1: This was the first stard Trek movie that ILM was
Speaker 1: involved from the beginning to the end. Like they kept
Speaker 1: coming in and helping in places, but this was they
Speaker 1: got to work from the design to the final product
Speaker 1: here and yeah, this in particular, I think it's spectacular.
Speaker 1: And if you watch any of the behind the scenes thing,
Speaker 1: you realize how fucking difficult that shot was. Because I
Speaker 1: mentioned there are spotlights on the surface of Vulcan as
Speaker 1: the ship comes down and they play on the surface
Speaker 1: of the ship and to get those Ken Ralston had
Speaker 1: to not only motion control of the camera going around
Speaker 1: the ship. He had to motion control like little motorized
Speaker 1: lights to move in synchronous in synchrony with the It's
Speaker 1: a big complicated thing with math and everything. So it's
Speaker 1: amazing and it looks gorgeous.
Speaker 2: But it's also a completely lost art And I think
Speaker 2: not to soapbox, but obviously CG makes a lot of
Speaker 2: stuff possible that wasn't before. But for similitude of having
Speaker 2: a physical model with real light playing off of the
Speaker 2: hull and matted in against a real landscape or at
Speaker 2: least a matted landscape, you can't get that with CG.
Speaker 2: You just can't. There's still something that to me res fake.
Speaker 2: With CG it may look get the job done more
Speaker 2: or less, but I just I love this stuff. It
Speaker 2: looks so compelling to me.
Speaker 1: The beauty is in the imperfections, and you can't never
Speaker 1: get an imperfection with the computer generated thing.
Speaker 2: The biggest example of that it will always be Blade Runner,
Speaker 2: which is it was such not to get sidetracked, but
Speaker 2: I mean, if you ever watch any of the making
Speaker 2: of stuff on that, it's like, it's incredible what they
Speaker 2: were able to achieve with the physical models. Nevertheless, they
Speaker 2: land they take Spock's body and McCoy. He accepts that.
Speaker 2: The priestess says to McCoy, this is a dangerous thing.
Speaker 2: You're in as much danger, maybe more danger than Spock,
Speaker 2: and he says, I accept the danger. McCoy is committed
Speaker 2: to doing this, so give I feel. I'm tired of
Speaker 2: being schizophrenic and have this thing in my head. I
Speaker 2: want to get it out. So they go up the
Speaker 2: steps of Mounts to lea excuse me, and there's a
Speaker 2: great scene between Sarah and Kirk the next day where
Speaker 2: Sarah comes over and basically says to Kirk, look what
Speaker 2: this has cost you. This cost you your ship, this
Speaker 2: cost you your son. This is unbelievable. And Kirk says, yeah,
Speaker 2: but if I hadn't gone, it would have cost me
Speaker 2: my soul. I just I love that moment between because
Speaker 2: Sarah is still Vulcan or not, he is still Spock's father,
Speaker 2: and in his own way, he wants desperately to get
Speaker 2: his son back. I love that interplay, and I love
Speaker 2: I've already said I love Sarah. I love Mark Leonard
Speaker 2: as Sarah. I think he's I wish you there had
Speaker 2: been more of Sarah in all of these movies, but
Speaker 2: we don't get a ton.
Speaker 1: Mark Lenard was the first Star Trek actor I saw
Speaker 1: at a convention live? Was he really when I was Jesus,
Speaker 1: wasn't too long after this, Actually it might have been before. No,
Speaker 1: it's around this time. It was eighty five. I think
Speaker 1: was my first Star Trek convention and Mark Leonard was.
Speaker 1: It was a Creation convention in Boston, and he was
Speaker 1: the big guest, and he came in and people did
Speaker 1: horrible impressions for him during the Q and A, and
Speaker 1: all they kept talking about was his role on the
Speaker 1: Planet of the Apes television series, and they just kept
Speaker 1: making bad ape jokes to him, and I just kept thinking,
Speaker 1: like God, that, even at that age, like this noble
Speaker 1: actor standing up here listening to these nerds like try
Speaker 1: and try and be funny.
Speaker 2: He's so noble. That's really the key to the character.
Speaker 2: And that's maybe that's why I think he did such
Speaker 2: a great job.
Speaker 4: He was.
Speaker 2: Actually, wasn't he one of the first Klingons in the
Speaker 2: original series. Didn't you play one of the original Klingons?
Speaker 2: He showed the episode that it was introduced.
Speaker 1: I think he's the Klingon. Yeah, he's the very.
Speaker 2: First so the guy is Pedigree. Eventually they all McCoy
Speaker 2: and Spock come down from Mount Celia. McCoy I like
Speaker 2: this too, where McCoy walks by Kirk and he but
Speaker 2: he takes a moment to say, I'm all right, Jim,
Speaker 2: I'm all right. Just love the fact that he knows
Speaker 2: how concerned that Kirk is for him, and he's like,
Speaker 2: you don't worry about me. I'm okay, Jim, I'm curing.
Speaker 1: I don't care. I would have sacrificed you too, and
Speaker 1: you're you're cool and all. But me and Spock besties.
Speaker 2: Screw you. Where the hell, Spock? What's up a Spock?
Speaker 6: Is he?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: So Spock walks by.
Speaker 1: He was never worried about your bouce.
Speaker 2: I wasn't worried about you. You're an old man. Your
Speaker 2: time is done you.
Speaker 1: How long Spock's going to be taking care of me
Speaker 1: until I'm long in the tooth?
Speaker 2: See you later, Bounce, Sarah says to Kirk. Only time
Speaker 2: will tell if Spock is going to get back to
Speaker 2: the way he was. And this is really the payoff
Speaker 2: through this whole movie. This is what people have been
Speaker 2: waiting for. We finally get to see Leonard Nimoy again
Speaker 2: as Spock. He walks by in a priestly robe and
Speaker 2: he stops as he walks by the crew, and he
Speaker 2: walks by them all one by one, trying to remember
Speaker 2: who they are and all that, and you can see
Speaker 2: him struggling to remember this, and he goes over to
Speaker 2: Kirk and he eventually remembers the speech from Wrath of
Speaker 2: Khan about the ship being out of danger and the
Speaker 2: needs of the many and what have you, and that
Speaker 2: your name is Jim. He says this, and there's this
Speaker 2: wonderful moment where Kirk says, yes, I'm Jim. You see
Speaker 2: on Nimoy's face that he's getting confidence and assurance that
Speaker 2: he's starting to remember, because it's almost like he straightens
Speaker 2: up a little bit and he's like, all right, but
Speaker 2: we're getting somewhere now, I remembering who I am. And
Speaker 2: he's such a look. Not only is did he direct
Speaker 2: this movie so well? But let's not forget I mean Spock.
Speaker 2: His Spock is iconic, right, So.
Speaker 1: He's the only character that we would have based an
Speaker 1: entire movie about just getting him back. He does at
Speaker 1: all in the movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this isn't the search for Sulu or the search
Speaker 2: for Chekhov. I'm not sure they would have gone through
Speaker 2: these hoops to rescue them, I'm sorry to say. But anyhow,
Speaker 2: eventually the crew all gather around Spock and they're all
Speaker 2: happy because they can see that he's getting his memories back.
Speaker 2: And Nimoy even gives a little eyebrow raise, one of
Speaker 2: his patented Spock eyebrow raises, so you as the audience
Speaker 2: feels like, Okay, we're getting Spock back, Like he's getting
Speaker 2: his memory back. This bodes well. Now we can breathe
Speaker 2: a sigh of relief. He's back. And that's effectively where
Speaker 2: the movie.
Speaker 1: Is, and the adventure continues. It tells us this is
Speaker 1: true bigger than it is. A cheese head. He started
Speaker 1: this movie. He started writing the movie by writing that
Speaker 1: last line, first the Jim, your name is Jim, and
Speaker 1: then he wrote it back where it's like a like
Speaker 1: a locked door mystery.
Speaker 2: That explains a lot about the story and the lack
Speaker 2: of logic in spots highly but look, the thing of
Speaker 2: it is, ultimately, look, I think you and I remember
Speaker 2: this movie or appreciate this movie more than maybe others do.
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day. This is really
Speaker 2: a means to an end, right, they knew that Spock
Speaker 2: would have to come back. This is a necessary adjunct
Speaker 2: to future Star Trek movies. I mean, I don't mean
Speaker 2: to discount it and put it in those terms, but
Speaker 2: that's effectively what this is. This is getting us to
Speaker 2: the point where now we can we can have Spock
Speaker 2: rejoin the crew and now have more adventures with the
Speaker 2: entire crew.
Speaker 1: I think they should have done one completely without Meimoi.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it wouldn't have been the same. I don't think
Speaker 2: you could agree.
Speaker 1: I think it would have been a whole different animal.
Speaker 1: I think we could have given us one Star Trek
Speaker 1: without Spock, so we could miss him and then make
Speaker 1: a movie about getting him back, and it's interest him
Speaker 1: show up inexplicably at the end of That's what I
Speaker 1: was gonna say.
Speaker 2: You could have had maybe it's not about the search
Speaker 2: for Spock, but maybe they maye like, all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: like they're in this dire circumstance and then out of nowhere,
Speaker 2: Spock comes in and you're like, WHOA, what the heck
Speaker 2: happened here? And then he's got to we got to
Speaker 2: figure out where that's at but that and that may
Speaker 2: be one of my biggest issues. We've talked about this already,
Speaker 2: but the fact that it's called The Search for Spock,
Speaker 2: but there's really no searching. Like you go in thinking
Speaker 2: that it's going to be this adventure where at the
Speaker 2: end of the Rainbow they find Spock, but that's not
Speaker 2: what happens. They find him in the first third of
Speaker 2: the movie, and it's less about the search for Spock
Speaker 2: and more about the race against time to get him
Speaker 2: off the Genesis plane.
Speaker 1: The race to Spock.
Speaker 2: The race to Spock. Yeah kind of.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there's no searching at all. It's like there's
Speaker 1: no searching and oh, here's okay, I'm gonna say one
Speaker 1: thing I liked and one thing I did.
Speaker 2: Sure.
Speaker 1: One thing I liked I loved actually is when the
Speaker 1: Enterprise returns to Space Stock and there's the gigantic lounge
Speaker 1: windows that everyone is watching through and former Yeoman Rand
Speaker 1: is surveying the damage and shaking her head like Jesus Christ,
Speaker 1: what have they done this time?
Speaker 2: Yeah? What have they done? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I love that scene. Here's something I fucking hate. Robert Fletcher,
Speaker 1: who is usually really reliable, he did the costumes for
Speaker 1: all three of these movies, and I don't like the
Speaker 1: costumes in the first movie, but that wasn't really his fault.
Speaker 1: That was more Robert Wise. He comes back hard with
Speaker 1: the admiralty uniforms in the second movie and then gives
Speaker 1: us their civilian clothes in this What the fuck is
Speaker 1: everyone wearing?
Speaker 2: Kirk is wearing When Sarah goes to visit Kirk while
Speaker 2: he's entertaining the rest of the crew, Kirk has this
Speaker 2: it's like a jogging suit chop. It's like this red
Speaker 2: or it's blue, white and gray, but it kind of
Speaker 2: comes down like an arrow down towards his crotch and
Speaker 2: with like red piping on the sides. It's very weird.
Speaker 2: It's it's like sharkleet leisure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is okay. The fact that the terry cloth
Speaker 1: material is just unusual on everybody. It makes everyone seem
Speaker 1: like they're in an episode of The Sopranos, But more
Speaker 1: specifically the fucking Chekhov's little Dutch boy outfit with the
Speaker 1: giant pink collar. What is happening? I know that Robert
Speaker 1: fless You was saying like he's trying to individualize each
Speaker 1: of their outfits, so they have some sort of meaning
Speaker 1: for them to clearly su lose is like kimono inspired,
Speaker 1: and Bura has an African pattern on hers. But what
Speaker 1: is Chekov? What is he saying about Russia there? Like
Speaker 1: they they're fancy boys.
Speaker 2: And it's a very it's an odd color too, It's
Speaker 2: like this faded maroon color. It almost looks like it
Speaker 2: had been washed too many times and the colors have faded.
Speaker 2: It's a very peculiar outfit his in particular there.
Speaker 1: And that's my last word on Star Trek three.
Speaker 2: No, but I think my last word on it is
Speaker 2: that it's if we're going to talk about the curse
Speaker 2: of the odd numbered Star Trek movies, I think it's
Speaker 2: a little unfair to characterize this as a bad movie.
Speaker 2: It's not really a bad movie. It's not maybe not
Speaker 2: as good as some of the even numbered movies, but
Speaker 2: this is no way of failure. I think this is
Speaker 2: a decent movie.
Speaker 1: Better than five, much.
Speaker 2: Better than five. Five is the nadir. I think we
Speaker 2: can all agree before we even get there to talk
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 1: I think it's better than Generations. I think it's better
Speaker 1: than Insurrection.
Speaker 2: Wait, wait, five or three you're talking about.
Speaker 1: I'm talking about Star Trek Three is better than Star
Speaker 1: Trek Part five. It's better than Star Trek Generations. It's
Speaker 1: better than Star Trek Insurrection.
Speaker 2: I would agree with you there certainly Insurrection Generations. There's
Speaker 2: parts of that I really like. It's hard for me
Speaker 2: to compare those two for some reason, but.
Speaker 1: There are parts of that movie that I like. I
Speaker 1: will watch this movie beginning to end.
Speaker 2: Tough Call, tough Call, but it's certainly better than the
Speaker 2: other ones you mentioned. It's way better, without question. It's
Speaker 2: better than five, without question. It's better than Insurrection.
Speaker 1: So here's the rule for Star Trek movies. Sometimes they're
Speaker 1: good and sometimes they're bad, which is.
Speaker 2: Like any franchise. We just got done talking about all
Speaker 2: the Predator movies. Some are good, some are really bad,
Speaker 2: some are terrific. That's what we have here. It's people
Speaker 2: like to reduce things down to these little rules, or
Speaker 2: these little clever rules of thumb. Don't believe it. Three
Speaker 2: is a decent movie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I really enjoyed the movie. I had a great time.
Speaker 1: I think it's one of my favorite villains of all time.
Speaker 1: It's set up the entire fucking Kling on Empire really,
Speaker 1: and the fucking Sulu flips that fucking giant guy over
Speaker 1: and tells him not to call him tiny?
Speaker 2: What could be wrong with the tiny anymore? And it's
Speaker 2: you had said this. It's the beginning of giving those
Speaker 2: supposed ancillary characters the other members of the crew more
Speaker 2: to do, and it we see that open up even
Speaker 2: more with Part four. But I and I have to
Speaker 2: assume that a lot of that is due to Nimoy's influence,
Speaker 2: just being a storyteller and a director at that point, saying, look, people,
Speaker 2: and he'd been to enough conventions, I'm sure or to
Speaker 2: understand that no matter what Shatner thought of the rest
Speaker 2: of the crew of the Enterprise being side characters, people
Speaker 2: love these characters. People love Chekhov, Sulu and Ahura, and
Speaker 2: they want to see them do things, do more.
Speaker 1: And I think only Nimoy could have done that, because
Speaker 1: every other filmmaker coming into this is going to fall
Speaker 1: into line with the same thing. People are here to
Speaker 1: see Kirk and Spock and McCoy and that's who we're
Speaker 1: going to focus on and focus on exclusively, and in fact,
Speaker 1: we'll make up new characters just to support those three
Speaker 1: characters and fuck the rest of these characters. And it's
Speaker 1: Nemoy saying, let's give something to do for all of
Speaker 1: my friends here who have active characters in this story.
Speaker 1: And it continues from here on. Everyone is going to
Speaker 1: get it at least a beat. They're not given anything
Speaker 1: near what they're doing as characters, but at least we're
Speaker 1: acknowledging them now.
Speaker 2: To me, it indicates it, and this is borne out
Speaker 2: by every interview I've seen of Nemoy. This to me
Speaker 2: indicates a lack of vanity on his part because he's
Speaker 2: serving the story completely. I'm not necessarily going to suggest
Speaker 2: that Shatner. We know that Shatner took lines away from
Speaker 2: some of the other actors. He's the reason why Sulu
Speaker 2: didn't become a captain for as long as he did,
Speaker 2: because he made it. Memoy, there's a lot to be
Speaker 2: He has a lot to be honored for in this
Speaker 2: The directions solid, and the storytelling doing large part to
Speaker 2: him is solid as well.
Speaker 1: That scene between Krug and Maltz where he's describing his
Speaker 1: planet's all close ups. Oh man, so good. Maltz, by
Speaker 1: the way, that's John Lecat's character. What happened to Maltz,
Speaker 1: I actually don't know, and I'd like to know, because
Speaker 1: I know they kept him. They brought him back with them.
Speaker 2: So what we know is he they brought him back
Speaker 2: up on the ship and he says something to Kirk
Speaker 2: and Kirk says, no, I'll kill you later, and then
Speaker 2: they take off and he tells them take Malts down
Speaker 2: to the to the prison or whatever, and malt says, wait,
Speaker 2: you said you would kill me, and Kirk says, I lied.
Speaker 2: So we know that he didn't kill Malts. We just
Speaker 2: don't know. He must have remanded him back into Klingon
Speaker 2: custody at some point.
Speaker 1: HPN. That's what I'm saying. They took Malts with them
Speaker 1: to fucking Vulcan, and then from Vulcan they came back
Speaker 1: to Earth and went back in time. That is malt
Speaker 1: still on a Vulcan or was he in the hold
Speaker 1: of that Klingon craft the entire time in the brig?
Speaker 1: Could they could we have a sequence where we cut
Speaker 1: to John Larakett now and make up like in the
Speaker 1: brig while I hear whales, I think someone want to
Speaker 1: let me he's in.
Speaker 2: The brig as they're bringing this transparent aluminum that's surrounding him.
Speaker 1: What is he like?
Speaker 2: What is Scott? He's like, don't you worry, It's fine,
Speaker 2: You'll be fine. And then they fill it up with
Speaker 2: water and he's just.
Speaker 1: Whale food at that point, Guys, I don't think that's
Speaker 1: made for this. That's not gonna hold.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, Oh I cannot wait now, I can't
Speaker 2: wait to talk about Part four. We get some topics here,
Speaker 2: good stuff.
Speaker 1: Long live months. All right, ladies and gentlemen, thank you
Speaker 1: for joining us here for our latest Star trek fyt
Speaker 1: Star trek Fay. Of course, what's going to happen next?
Speaker 1: Star Trek four The Voyage Home Voyd. Yeah, the part
Speaker 1: of the part three of the Genesis trilogy. We're all
Speaker 1: going to forget about number one, tend it started with
Speaker 1: two until that hpre Where can be to find you?
Speaker 1: If they're looking for you?
Speaker 2: I co host The Night mister Walters, a taxi podcast
Speaker 2: with you, fatherm Alone.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's right, that's right. For light is involved,
Speaker 1: So come on over Trekkers. Trekkers and not the derisive trekkies.
Speaker 2: Actually, be ause I pushed my glasses up on my
Speaker 2: forehead here, So yeah, I host that with bottom alone here.
Speaker 2: I also host the Noise Junkies music podcast. At some
Speaker 2: point I'll get to it and then I also have
Speaker 2: a band camp site Hpmusicplace dot bandcamp dot com.
Speaker 1: As for me, you're listening to it here. That's Midnight
Speaker 1: doing Falling Malone's weekly round Up every Monday or Sunday,
Speaker 1: and regular show the anthology podcast every Friday. In fact,
Speaker 1: by the time this comes out, we've had a change.
Speaker 1: It's just me and Mike White now doing the anthology podcast.
Speaker 1: We're looking at the hammer House of Horrors, the British
Speaker 1: horrorse anthology series from the early nineteen eighties. Check us
Speaker 1: out over there on Fridays or one of the fests
Speaker 1: that are always going on. Until then, we'll leave you
Speaker 1: with a bit from Star Trek three. Here we go.
Speaker 7: Speak great power to all dominate.
Speaker 6: Speak impressive. They can make a planet. Oh yes, new cities,
Speaker 6: homes and the country.
Speaker 1: Your woman at your.
Speaker 5: Side, children play at your feet and overhead, fluttering in
Speaker 5: the breeze, the flag of the Federation, charming station.
Speaker 6: Yes, my mod, share this with no one under start,
Speaker 6: my lord, we are going to this planet.
Speaker 7: Even as I am a serious negotiate for peace with
Speaker 7: the Federation. We will act with the preservation of our race.
Speaker 7: We will seize the secret of this weapon, the secret
Speaker 7: of wilcom and power success.
Speaker 4: My Lord