WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.520 --> 00:00:05.519 It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ Constance Radio. 2 00:00:06.240 --> 00:00:10.400 Sorry, welcome back everyone again. If you're interested in the 3 00:00:10.439 --> 00:00:15.000 campaign of Brian short Sleeve, Brian Shortsleeve dot com as 4 00:00:15.759 --> 00:00:17.960 the website you can find him. And we will be 5 00:00:18.039 --> 00:00:22.839 talking with Mike Kinneely on Thursday night, and we'll talk 6 00:00:22.839 --> 00:00:26.640 tomorrow night at nine o'clock with State Auditor Diana Desaglio, 7 00:00:27.280 --> 00:00:31.519 which will be an interesting conversation as well. Last night 8 00:00:31.559 --> 00:00:34.560 we had an interesting conversation. We talked for the first 9 00:00:34.600 --> 00:00:37.960 time last night about a piece of legislation that is 10 00:00:38.960 --> 00:00:44.560 up on Beacon Hill with Richard Wells, a former police 11 00:00:44.600 --> 00:00:49.200 chief in Milton, Massachusetts and a Democrat member of the legislature. 12 00:00:49.640 --> 00:00:53.880 Richard Wells, along with some other members of the legislature's 13 00:00:53.880 --> 00:00:57.799 support a piece of legislature called the Halo Act, which 14 00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:04.280 would require which would allow first responders and that would 15 00:01:04.319 --> 00:01:09.599 be firefighters, police officers, or EMTs to warn people who 16 00:01:09.680 --> 00:01:13.239 may be getting too close to them while they are 17 00:01:13.719 --> 00:01:19.599 responding to a situation, either a fire or a disruption, 18 00:01:19.680 --> 00:01:25.159 a disturbance, or for that matter, somebody who is down 19 00:01:25.200 --> 00:01:28.480 on the ground and injured bystanders could if they were 20 00:01:28.519 --> 00:01:30.879 deemed to be interfering with the operation could be ordered 21 00:01:30.959 --> 00:01:34.840 to back off by twenty five feet. And today we'd 22 00:01:34.879 --> 00:01:37.439 like to get the other point of view on that, 23 00:01:37.519 --> 00:01:41.359 and I'm delighted to welcome Attorney Greg Sullivan, who's president 24 00:01:41.400 --> 00:01:44.840 of the New England First Amendment Coalition. Spoke with Greg 25 00:01:44.920 --> 00:01:48.000 this afternoon. Pretty clear that Greg and I don't know 26 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:50.359 if the organization has taken a position on this, but 27 00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:54.040 certainly Greg is opposed to Greg. Attorney Greg Sullivan, welcome 28 00:01:54.079 --> 00:01:55.359 to night, said, how are you, sir. 29 00:01:56.200 --> 00:01:58.480 I'm well, Dan, Thank you for having me on. 30 00:01:58.799 --> 00:02:02.519 Well, my pleasure, thank you for coming on. This is 31 00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:04.400 one of those issues that I think a lot of 32 00:02:04.439 --> 00:02:08.560 people will have a thought on, And obviously I would 33 00:02:08.639 --> 00:02:13.680 love to know from you how you feel about this. 34 00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:15.759 I told you today on the phone, and I would 35 00:02:15.800 --> 00:02:18.039 repeat it for the audience that to me, it seems 36 00:02:18.080 --> 00:02:22.360 like a fairly reasonable piece of legislation. But what is 37 00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:27.120 it about this legislation that the New England First Amendment 38 00:02:27.159 --> 00:02:31.120 Coalition and you as president find problematic? 39 00:02:32.639 --> 00:02:37.719 Well, simply put, we don't find it too past constitutional muster. 40 00:02:38.719 --> 00:02:44.400 And I would point out that identical laws were passed 41 00:02:44.599 --> 00:02:48.360 in three other states, four other states. I should say, 42 00:02:49.039 --> 00:02:53.599 and in three of those states, federal courts have stricken 43 00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:58.120 those laws with the identical language that the proposed Massachusetts 44 00:02:58.199 --> 00:03:05.639 law has as being unduly vague and broad, overly broad, 45 00:03:06.120 --> 00:03:08.319 and therefore unconstitutional. 46 00:03:09.719 --> 00:03:15.520 By the way, just for clarification on background, Attorney Sullivan 47 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:19.840 has represented many media companies here in New England. That is, 48 00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:28.199 that is his area of expertise. Let's I will accept 49 00:03:28.240 --> 00:03:33.439 your view that it's unconstitutional. On a personal level. Do 50 00:03:33.520 --> 00:03:36.639 you see any sort of a practical concern with the law? 51 00:03:36.680 --> 00:03:38.240 I mean, as it's. 52 00:03:38.080 --> 00:03:42.800 Proposed, Yeah, I mean it's so vague that there there 53 00:03:42.840 --> 00:03:45.919 are a lot of problems I see in the wording 54 00:03:45.960 --> 00:03:51.680 of the statute, the definition of harassment, for example, which 55 00:03:51.719 --> 00:03:58.879 says conduct that causes substantial emotional distress in the first responder. 56 00:03:59.560 --> 00:04:03.560 I mean that phraseology to me, is so subjective and 57 00:04:03.680 --> 00:04:09.599 vague that I don't know how courts could interpret, for example, 58 00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:13.599 a first responders testimony to see if it was reasonable. 59 00:04:13.639 --> 00:04:19.480 And that's the word that should underline all laws. Was 60 00:04:19.560 --> 00:04:26.600 this emotional distress substantially caused by an onlooker or in 61 00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:29.240 many cases it would be a member of the press 62 00:04:29.319 --> 00:04:33.920 who would be negatively affected. Were this law to pass. 63 00:04:34.160 --> 00:04:37.839 And that's certainly what the courts have found. They've found 64 00:04:37.839 --> 00:04:43.600 that the First Amendment rights of the media on balance 65 00:04:44.040 --> 00:04:51.519 outweigh the need for this artificial twenty five foot zone. 66 00:04:51.959 --> 00:04:54.720 And I will say, in fairness to the drafters of 67 00:04:54.759 --> 00:04:59.600 the legislation, I think their intent is good. Nobody wants 68 00:04:59.800 --> 00:05:05.639 to see interference with first responders' performance of their duties. 69 00:05:06.279 --> 00:05:11.800 But this law, it just is too much, too vague, 70 00:05:12.519 --> 00:05:16.079 too broad, and not effective. 71 00:05:16.839 --> 00:05:18.560 So let me ask you this. If I could counsel, 72 00:05:19.519 --> 00:05:25.800 let us assume that this proponents were to come to 73 00:05:25.839 --> 00:05:29.639 you and say, do you think that it's possible for 74 00:05:29.720 --> 00:05:34.360 a law to be written that would pass constitutional muster? 75 00:05:34.399 --> 00:05:38.920 As you know, the Halo Act has been challenged in Florida, 76 00:05:39.040 --> 00:05:41.800 that law is still in the books. If they came 77 00:05:41.839 --> 00:05:46.720 to you and said conceptually, and I made this point 78 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:50.800 last night, all of us have our job, A police 79 00:05:50.839 --> 00:05:53.680 officer of job, firefighters have job E and T responders 80 00:05:53.720 --> 00:05:58.240 have a job. All of us have seen many incidents 81 00:05:58.279 --> 00:06:03.240 in the last few years, and even recently. What happened 82 00:06:03.319 --> 00:06:06.600 to the ice officers who were attempting to effectuate an 83 00:06:06.639 --> 00:06:11.199 arrest in Worcester last week? What happened down at the 84 00:06:11.240 --> 00:06:17.920 Ice Center in Newark, New Jersey over the weekend. Do 85 00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:20.800 you think it's conceivable that a law like this could 86 00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:25.199 be written which would pass any form of constitutional muster 87 00:06:25.720 --> 00:06:29.000 if someone like yourself wrote the law. 88 00:06:30.439 --> 00:06:34.399 Well, I'm going to suggest that there are numerous laws 89 00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:41.319 already on the books that address these very situations you 90 00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:46.199 mentioned ice. And there's a federal law which is eighteen USC. 91 00:06:46.639 --> 00:06:55.240 Section one eleven, which makes it a misdemeanor to oppose, impede, intimidate, 92 00:06:55.360 --> 00:06:59.560 or interfere with any person engaged in the performance of 93 00:06:59.600 --> 00:06:59.959 their effe. 94 00:07:01.519 --> 00:07:04.279 And you're correct on that. There is a member of Congress, 95 00:07:04.279 --> 00:07:08.079 by the way, a Democratic congresswoman, who has been charged 96 00:07:08.160 --> 00:07:11.120 under I believe, if not that statue, a similar statue. 97 00:07:11.480 --> 00:07:13.120 I know that there were laws in the books. I 98 00:07:13.399 --> 00:07:18.439 do understand that if you if you strike a police officer, 99 00:07:19.480 --> 00:07:22.000 you could be charged with assault and battery. If you 100 00:07:22.079 --> 00:07:26.079 threaten a police officer, you can be charged with assault. 101 00:07:25.720 --> 00:07:26.560 I get that. 102 00:07:27.800 --> 00:07:30.319 You let me let me interrect you on that one, 103 00:07:30.399 --> 00:07:35.439 because threats to commit a crime is a crime in 104 00:07:35.480 --> 00:07:40.040 and of itself on any individual, never mind a police officer. 105 00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:43.279 In the assault and battery understand that und that even 106 00:07:43.319 --> 00:07:49.600 more stringent than your normal assault and battery there is. 107 00:07:50.480 --> 00:07:53.959 But but I can construct for you, Greg, I can 108 00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:57.680 construct for you a situation where a police officer or 109 00:07:57.720 --> 00:08:03.720 police officers are attempting to arrest someone, and whether that 110 00:08:03.920 --> 00:08:07.000 arrest is going to be ultimately justified or not is 111 00:08:07.079 --> 00:08:10.000 up for the courts to decide, not a group of 112 00:08:10.040 --> 00:08:13.399 people who might gather around and attempt to interfere with that. 113 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:16.800 And this just gives the police one more tool in 114 00:08:16.839 --> 00:08:22.560 their toolbox, with a piece of legislation that is craftedise 115 00:08:22.680 --> 00:08:25.920 more precisely, perhaps than the Halo Act. And basically they 116 00:08:25.920 --> 00:08:29.959 can say that people stand back. And so if someone 117 00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:33.919 gets close and puts that police officer in a position 118 00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:37.480 where they or a firefighter or an EMT. I mean, 119 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:40.240 if an EMT is trying to help someone on the ground, 120 00:08:40.879 --> 00:08:46.399 wouldn't there reasonably be possible to construct a piece of 121 00:08:46.480 --> 00:08:50.000 legislation to give the EMT sufficient room to be able 122 00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:53.879 to move from the person they're helping through an ambulance 123 00:08:53.879 --> 00:08:55.879 to get some equipment and not have people standing in 124 00:08:55.919 --> 00:08:59.240 the way. I mean, I understand, I'm a member of 125 00:08:59.240 --> 00:09:02.080 the media, I'm is I'm an absolutist in the First Amendment, 126 00:09:02.120 --> 00:09:04.120 and I consider myself to be an absolutist in the 127 00:09:04.120 --> 00:09:07.240 First Amendment. But I have just seen too much of this. 128 00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:11.240 I've seen police barrier, I've seen police buildings in Minneapolis 129 00:09:11.519 --> 00:09:16.639 burn to the ground. I've seen federal buildings in Seattle, Washington, 130 00:09:17.039 --> 00:09:19.320 and in Portland, Oregon firebomb. 131 00:09:22.600 --> 00:09:24.159 We're getting far afield. 132 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:26.840 No, we're not. In my in my in my opinion, 133 00:09:26.840 --> 00:09:27.559 you may think. 134 00:09:27.759 --> 00:09:30.159 Just mentioned our crimes. 135 00:09:30.440 --> 00:09:32.279 I understand that there was. 136 00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:35.240 On the books to punish those crimes. I understand that 137 00:09:35.840 --> 00:09:39.440 the New England First Amendment Coalition in no way condones 138 00:09:40.159 --> 00:09:47.159 illegal activity crime. Uh, but we certainly protect and defend 139 00:09:47.679 --> 00:09:51.120 the First Amendment at all times. The First Amendment is 140 00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:52.399 that I do as well. 141 00:09:52.200 --> 00:09:55.279 By the way I practice it. I practice the First 142 00:09:55.279 --> 00:09:57.639 Amendment every night of the week. Greg, let me do this. 143 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:01.960 I want to give call us a chance to call in. 144 00:10:02.279 --> 00:10:05.279 I also want to raise a couple of other situations 145 00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:06.679 with you, which I want you to be able to 146 00:10:06.679 --> 00:10:08.879 respond to. But I got to take a commercial break. 147 00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:11.559 I know I'm going to enjoy this conversation with you, 148 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:14.240 for sure. Folks would like to weigh in on this 149 00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:16.759 six one, seven, two, five, four to ten thirty six 150 00:10:16.840 --> 00:10:20.000 one seven, nine, three, one ten thirty. I will always 151 00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:24.240 ask you, whatever your position on any issue on this program, 152 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:26.840 be respectful to my guests. My guest or the equivalent 153 00:10:26.840 --> 00:10:29.159 of someone in my home. And just as I would 154 00:10:29.200 --> 00:10:30.679 if I invited you to my home, I had to 155 00:10:30.679 --> 00:10:33.000 expect you to respect the other guests. We can have 156 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:36.159 conversations six one, seven, two, five, four ten thirty six 157 00:10:36.279 --> 00:10:38.399 one seven, nine three one ten thirty. Coming right back 158 00:10:38.440 --> 00:10:40.600 on Nightside with my guest, the president of the New 159 00:10:40.639 --> 00:10:45.120 England First Amendment Coalition, Attorney Greg Solivan. Back right after 160 00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:46.679 these messages on Nightside. 161 00:10:48.440 --> 00:10:51.720 You're on night Side with Dan Ray on w b Z, 162 00:10:52.120 --> 00:10:53.360 Boston's news radio. 163 00:10:54.639 --> 00:10:57.279 My guest is Greg Salivoni's the president of the New 164 00:10:57.320 --> 00:11:03.000 England First Amendment Coalition. Here, let me run an actual 165 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:06.360 situation by Greg and get your reaction to it. If 166 00:11:07.240 --> 00:11:11.200 you and I are driving in a car tonight somewhere 167 00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:13.799 in Massachusetts and our car breaks down and we pull 168 00:11:13.840 --> 00:11:17.639 over to the shoulder of the road, no one is 169 00:11:17.720 --> 00:11:22.000 obligated to give us any more room. In other words, 170 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:25.399 that the people do not, you know, be nice for 171 00:11:25.480 --> 00:11:29.240 them to be courteous and if we're trying to somehow 172 00:11:29.240 --> 00:11:33.000 get our car back under way, there's no obligation. If, 173 00:11:33.080 --> 00:11:35.759 on the other hand, a police car comes behind us 174 00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:39.559 and gives us some assistance, there is a statue which 175 00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:42.879 requires people in the in the right travel lane to 176 00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:46.799 move over and give the police car more room. Do 177 00:11:46.840 --> 00:11:47.799 you think that's a good law. 178 00:11:49.720 --> 00:11:51.279 Yeah, I'd say that's reasonable. 179 00:11:51.679 --> 00:11:55.720 Reasonable. So why should the police officer in that situation 180 00:11:56.200 --> 00:12:02.320 be given extra safety and convenience and all the other 181 00:12:02.399 --> 00:12:07.080 drivers inconvenience while we do not get statutorily, why do 182 00:12:07.159 --> 00:12:09.039 we make the exception for the police there in the 183 00:12:10.600 --> 00:12:13.879 actually the conduct of his or her job. 184 00:12:14.799 --> 00:12:19.200 Well, I mean that's simple public safety and common sense. 185 00:12:19.600 --> 00:12:22.639 Public safety and common sense, okay, So why does that 186 00:12:22.679 --> 00:12:26.200 public safety and common sense not say, Look, if an 187 00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:30.120 EMT is attempting to aid someone, he doesn't he or 188 00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:33.120 she doesn't need someone hanging over their shoulders saying what's 189 00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:36.480 going on here, looks like this guy's having a heart attack, 190 00:12:36.600 --> 00:12:39.440 what are you doing? Or if it's a firefighter who's 191 00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:42.600 attempting to get up a ladder. You know, we've had 192 00:12:42.639 --> 00:12:47.200 firefighters who have suffered literally people throwing bottles at them 193 00:12:47.200 --> 00:12:49.840 as they attempt to put out fires. There are people 194 00:12:49.879 --> 00:12:55.080 in our society who who just don't understand to allow 195 00:12:55.600 --> 00:12:57.840 people to do their job. I mean, you don't want 196 00:12:57.879 --> 00:13:01.159 someone coming into your office, well you're interviewing a client 197 00:13:01.279 --> 00:13:03.919 and saying, you know, Greg, there's a couple of ideas 198 00:13:03.919 --> 00:13:06.440 here that I'd like to throw into the conversation. I 199 00:13:06.440 --> 00:13:09.279 don't want someone walking into my studio and telling me 200 00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:11.600 how to do my job. Why don't we just allow 201 00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:14.399 police officers to do their job and if they make 202 00:13:14.480 --> 00:13:17.519 an arrest improperly, that's what we have a court system for. 203 00:13:18.879 --> 00:13:24.840 I agree with that. And throwing bottles at anyone, of course, 204 00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:26.960 I'm to the sault battery with a dangerous weapon. 205 00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:27.320 You know. 206 00:13:27.360 --> 00:13:29.360 He asked me a question if there could be a 207 00:13:29.440 --> 00:13:34.240 law drafted reasonably and constitutionally, and I'm going to point 208 00:13:34.279 --> 00:13:37.279 out to you I believe there is one in New Hampshire. 209 00:13:37.879 --> 00:13:43.320 It's called RSA, that's revised statue. It's annotated six forty two, 210 00:13:43.480 --> 00:13:47.120 Section two. A person is guilty of a misdemeanor when 211 00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:51.200 the person knowingly or purposely physically interferes with a person 212 00:13:51.320 --> 00:13:55.320 recognized to be a law enforcement official seeking to effect 213 00:13:55.360 --> 00:13:58.960 an arrest or detention of a person, regardless of whether 214 00:13:59.000 --> 00:14:02.279 there is a legal base for the arrest, and that's 215 00:14:02.360 --> 00:14:06.200 actually can be a Class B felony if that person 216 00:14:06.320 --> 00:14:09.840 causes injury. But the last sentence of the law says 217 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:15.440 verbal protestations alone shall not constitute a violation of this statard. 218 00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:21.200 So it's the twenty five feet thing that to me 219 00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:24.279 is vague and arbitrary. 220 00:14:24.679 --> 00:14:27.879 I think it's pretty specific, Greg. It's twenty five feet, 221 00:14:27.919 --> 00:14:29.919 whether it's twenty four feet or twenty six. 222 00:14:29.720 --> 00:14:34.440 Feet, right, But ten feet away, I'm ten feet away. 223 00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:36.919 If I work for a news station, Let's say, and 224 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:40.519 I'm ten feet away with my camera and I'm recording, 225 00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:45.200 and I'm peaceable, and I'm not interfering in any way 226 00:14:45.519 --> 00:14:48.919 with the activity of either the law enforcement official, the 227 00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:55.799 fire official, or the EMT. There should be no rule against. 228 00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:59.840 That, Okay, So therefore you would support that if I'm 229 00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:01.720 here hearing you correctly and correct me if I'm wrong, 230 00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:05.360 I'm hearing from you that the distance is a matter here, 231 00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:09.559 twenty five feet is not acceptable. Ten would be acceptable 232 00:15:09.639 --> 00:15:11.480 for a halo law in Massachusetts. 233 00:15:11.480 --> 00:15:14.799 I'm not saying that. I'm saying someone who's ten feet 234 00:15:14.799 --> 00:15:22.279 away filming the conduct of a public official. That's no 235 00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:27.080 problem with that in my mind at all. Now that 236 00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:31.399 person might be seven feet away or six feet or 237 00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:35.320 three feet. Every case turns on its own set of facts. 238 00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:41.080 That's why boldly broad laws are dangerous. They is a 239 00:15:41.120 --> 00:15:42.799 tenabitrary enforcement. 240 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:45.039 Okay, I'm not trying to entrap you here, my friend. 241 00:15:45.080 --> 00:15:47.759 I'm not smart enough to entrap a lawyer like you. 242 00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:51.039 But it sounds to me like you're saying ten feet 243 00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:55.480 is okay, and that the photographer and the reporter. And 244 00:15:55.519 --> 00:15:57.679 by the way, I did this for thirty one years, 245 00:15:57.720 --> 00:16:00.080 as you probably might remember or you might know, and 246 00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:03.559 if not, I'll tell you I did it. We functioned 247 00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:08.200 without this law in effect. But I think sometimes people 248 00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:11.840 now are dealing with police a little differently, and police 249 00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:16.679 have made tremendous accommodations. When I was a reporter of police, 250 00:16:16.679 --> 00:16:23.879 officers were not wearing cameras. And by the way, I 251 00:16:23.919 --> 00:16:27.600 think those cameras show and have shown, how difficult being 252 00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:30.200 a police officer or a firefighter or an EMT is. 253 00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:33.799 So yes, I think the body one cameras are a 254 00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:38.120 great thing. It shows that the vast majority ninety nine 255 00:16:38.159 --> 00:16:42.399 percent of the police officers and other government officials are 256 00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:45.480 doing their best, and they're doing a great job. But 257 00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:50.679 it also, like the reporter's camera, the police camera can 258 00:16:50.720 --> 00:16:55.399 also show where mistakes have been made and even egregious 259 00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:58.879 conduct occurs, and we all know that it does occur. 260 00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:03.360 Well yeah, well for George Foy, I'm going to go 261 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:06.319 right there to George Floyd. I guarantee you that the 262 00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:10.000 woman that was taking that video was a respectable distance 263 00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:13.640 away from and she did not attempt I believe it 264 00:17:13.640 --> 00:17:16.480 was a young woman. She did not attempt to do 265 00:17:16.559 --> 00:17:21.359 anything to stop Derek Chauvin. I wish she had, obviously, 266 00:17:23.559 --> 00:17:25.880 and George Floyd would still be a lot today. But 267 00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:28.519 I can tell you as a broadcast professional, she was 268 00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:30.160 more than twenty five feet away. 269 00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:33.000 And I don't think that's correct. I think she was 270 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:37.240 on the sidewalk and they were at the curbstone the 271 00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:40.319 police were. I think she and you know what, whether 272 00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:44.359 she was twenty five thirty feet fifteen feet, I don't 273 00:17:44.359 --> 00:17:48.359 think it matters that you use the word a respectable distance. Now, 274 00:17:48.359 --> 00:17:52.680 if the police officers had said to her, ma'am, police 275 00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:56.559 back up right now, and she failed to obey that order, 276 00:17:56.960 --> 00:18:00.200 that in and of itself would be a crime. It's 277 00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:03.480 up to you know. You mentioned the ice arrests in Worcester, 278 00:18:04.440 --> 00:18:10.279 and I watched the police body camera footage of that arrest, 279 00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:16.039 and that was the most absurd. All I could think 280 00:18:16.039 --> 00:18:19.359 of was the Keystone cops. That was handled so poorly. 281 00:18:20.079 --> 00:18:23.640 They had that woman in custody numerous times. I don't 282 00:18:23.680 --> 00:18:26.119 know how she ended up running down the street with 283 00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:31.720 a half a dozen offices chasing her. That that was 284 00:18:31.799 --> 00:18:34.680 that whole thing. Everything I saw on that video, I 285 00:18:34.720 --> 00:18:35.519 couldn't believe. 286 00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:39.680 I think it's I think it's easy for you and 287 00:18:39.799 --> 00:18:42.920 me to watch a video uh and uh and say, 288 00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:46.799 Jesus is the Keystone saw Keystone Cops. It's like when 289 00:18:46.839 --> 00:18:51.000 I watch you know, some you know, professional golfer, Uh, 290 00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:54.160 you know shank a drive into the woods. I'm saying, 291 00:18:54.160 --> 00:18:56.039 he's a pro golfer. How did he do that? I 292 00:18:56.039 --> 00:18:59.039 could do better than that. I think it's easy for 293 00:18:59.119 --> 00:19:00.759 guys like you and me to sit back and say, 294 00:19:01.079 --> 00:19:04.160 you know, I watched those tapes as well, and it 295 00:19:04.759 --> 00:19:08.480 just showed to me that was a situation was totally 296 00:19:08.839 --> 00:19:11.240 out of control, and it was out of control. The 297 00:19:11.279 --> 00:19:14.160 police were not involved in the riot. There you had 298 00:19:14.200 --> 00:19:17.200 people who were attempting to prevent the police from making 299 00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:19.279 an arrest. Now I don't know, by the way, if 300 00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:22.039 that woman ever should have been arrested, but that's for 301 00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:24.599 the courts to decide. It's not for people on the 302 00:19:24.599 --> 00:19:27.240 street to decide. Greg in my opinion, and that's what 303 00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:28.880 we're encouraging in my opinion. 304 00:19:29.119 --> 00:19:31.880 Yeah, I didn't see anyone in the video. I watched 305 00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:36.799 assault or batter a police officer, and in fact, I 306 00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:40.039 felt badly for the worst of police officers who were 307 00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:43.759 stuck in the middle. And it was the Ice agents 308 00:19:44.079 --> 00:19:47.039 to me, who I mean, you want to arrest a woman, 309 00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:50.799 get her hands behind her back, put her in cuffs, 310 00:19:50.839 --> 00:19:52.400 and put her in a cruise to see you later. 311 00:19:52.519 --> 00:19:56.359 That thing lasted over twenty minutes, and as I said, 312 00:19:56.400 --> 00:20:00.279 she was in custody, out of custody, in custody. It 313 00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:03.279 was I've already used the word absurd. I just couldn't 314 00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:04.240 believe what I was watching. 315 00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:07.000 I said that I understand that, but it was it 316 00:20:07.039 --> 00:20:10.839 was not that the police were looking to stage a 317 00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:15.440 riotous situation. They may have timed their arrest badly. I 318 00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:17.640 was critical by the way of the arrest of the 319 00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:22.119 graduate student at Medford. I thought that was overreaction. I 320 00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:26.440 as it turned out, there were five or six people 321 00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:30.799 who did show a badge, but it seemed to me 322 00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:33.880 that the optics were ridiculous that it would take five 323 00:20:33.960 --> 00:20:37.359 or six ICE officers to arrest this thirty year old 324 00:20:37.400 --> 00:20:40.480 graduate student. So I was very critical of that arrest. 325 00:20:40.599 --> 00:20:43.279 And part of that was that I did not hear 326 00:20:43.359 --> 00:20:46.200 anything from Ice as to what she had done. And 327 00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:48.119 when I went and read the op ed in the 328 00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:52.319 in the Toughs newspaper, it was like vanilla ice cream. 329 00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:55.279 It could have been written by a junior in high 330 00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:56.960 school and you would have said, gee, that's a really 331 00:20:56.960 --> 00:21:01.079 well thought out article, but there was there was nothing. Anyway, 332 00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:02.640 let me do this. I got to take a path. 333 00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:04.519 Let me, let me, let me, let me add to 334 00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:10.200 that because I read that there is nothing zero in it. 335 00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:11.960 I agree with you. I agree with you. Now. I 336 00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:14.400 don't know what else they had, but that that wasn't enough, 337 00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:17.480 in my opinion, to revoke a visa. 338 00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:20.680 No no question about it. It's called free speech, and 339 00:21:20.759 --> 00:21:25.279 it's being attacked by the current federal administration on a 340 00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:26.279 daily basis. 341 00:21:26.680 --> 00:21:32.160 Well, again, that's a that's a political judgment that I 342 00:21:32.200 --> 00:21:35.559 think there's a lot of criticism that we can make 343 00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:38.359 of this administration, and there's a lot of criticism we 344 00:21:38.359 --> 00:21:40.960 could make of any administration that I have lived under 345 00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:45.119 during my lifetime. There's a there's a lot of question 346 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:49.200 about the Biden administration and what people knew and when 347 00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:51.240 they knew it, and who was honest and how much 348 00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:53.759 transparency was involved. But I don't think either one of 349 00:21:53.799 --> 00:21:55.720 us want to go down that path tonight. I want 350 00:21:56.319 --> 00:21:58.599 right now, Yeah, I'll focus on this. We're going to 351 00:21:58.599 --> 00:22:00.880 take a phone calls right after the ra I only 352 00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:04.119 have one line opened. My guest as Attorney Greg Sullivan. 353 00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:06.640 He's the president of the New England First Amendment Coalition. 354 00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:10.920 Six one seven five six one No, let me get 355 00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:14.240 this right. Six one seven, two five four ten thirty 356 00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:17.160 or six one seven nine three one ten thirty. The 357 00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:20.079 two five four to ten thirties booked right now. The 358 00:22:20.119 --> 00:22:22.079 only line open is six one seven nine three one 359 00:22:22.200 --> 00:22:25.160 ten thirty. Back to phone calls or two phone calls 360 00:22:25.240 --> 00:22:26.839 right after the news at the bottom. 361 00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:31.720 Of the hour, if you're on Night Side with Dan 362 00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:35.359 Ray on w b Z, Boston's news radio. 363 00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:38.279 Or my guess is attorney Greg Salivan, he's the president 364 00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:41.279 of the New England First Amendment Coalition. We're talking about 365 00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:44.920 a piece of legislation that the Great and General Court 366 00:22:44.920 --> 00:22:48.319 of Massachusetts might consider. It's called the Halo Act. Greg, 367 00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:50.480 before we go to phone calls, anything that you want to. 368 00:22:50.480 --> 00:22:55.920 Clean up, Yeah, I'll give you a quote from Thomas Jefferson. 369 00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:58.880 I don't know if it's cleaning up or not, but Jefferson, 370 00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:02.200 after he was in off has said, our liberty depends 371 00:23:02.240 --> 00:23:05.279 on freedom of the press, and that cannot be limited 372 00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:10.160 without being lost. And this bill would limit the freedom 373 00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:14.359 of the press with a in a standardless way. And 374 00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:18.519 that's the reason the identical statutes have been stricken in 375 00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:24.559 both Louisiana, Indiana, and Arizona because there's no standards that 376 00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:29.759 would regulate a police officer's conduct with respect to effectuating 377 00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:34.119 an arrest for being harassed. Harassment being defined in this 378 00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:40.200 statute as causing substantial emotional distress in that first responder. 379 00:23:40.279 --> 00:23:43.160 Yeah, I mean, I can agree with you that you 380 00:23:43.519 --> 00:23:46.039 made me to clean up the language here, but I 381 00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:49.400 still believe that, based upon what I have seen in 382 00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:52.839 the last few years in this country, that the amount 383 00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:56.200 of respect that certain people have for police as well 384 00:23:56.200 --> 00:24:01.400 as empts and firefighters is going away. And just as 385 00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:07.640 I mentioned last night, just as Jaron Durant, the Red 386 00:24:07.640 --> 00:24:11.160 Sox outfielder who dealt with some serious mental health issues, 387 00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:16.119 should not be subjected to abuse while he's trying to 388 00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:18.680 play for the Red Sox. And I know if you're 389 00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:20.400 a Red Sox fan, but there was a fan in 390 00:24:20.440 --> 00:24:24.319 Cleveland who really got on his case as you will. 391 00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:28.240 He's trying to play a baseball game, a police officers 392 00:24:28.279 --> 00:24:30.960 trying to make an arrest, maybe save someone's life, firefighter 393 00:24:31.119 --> 00:24:33.519 as well, E m T's as well. I think we 394 00:24:33.559 --> 00:24:37.359 can make some concession of civility to them. And if 395 00:24:37.359 --> 00:24:39.559 we have to clean up the language and make it 396 00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:42.960 more precise, I'm all for it. I wish I could 397 00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:45.599 get you to help them clean it up and write 398 00:24:45.599 --> 00:24:48.359 the bill, but I suspect you not so inclined. And 399 00:24:48.559 --> 00:24:50.720 on that point, let's get some phone calls. Let's go 400 00:24:50.720 --> 00:24:53.640 to Florida. Dan is in Tampa Bay, and I will 401 00:24:53.640 --> 00:24:56.960