Speaker 1: Welcome to episode five seventy three of five and dive.
Speaker 1: It is Thursday, August twentieth. I'm your host, joined as
Speaker 1: usual by Jeffrey pattern Nostro, and it's only slightly less
Speaker 1: usually at this point by Zach Kreiser. Zach, thank you
Speaker 1: for being the guest host once again. How's it going.
Speaker 2: It's going well. It's Thursday, so I'm here exactly.
Speaker 1: You're part of the regular rotation at this point. If
Speaker 1: Jeffrey ever begs off, well I'm not gonna let him.
Speaker 1: But if he does, we know who to call. Jeffrey.
Speaker 1: How's it going on your end?
Speaker 3: That's going pretty well. I've been punished, I guess, for
Speaker 3: complaining about the quality of ads on MLB TV because
Speaker 3: they like literally, I think a couple of days after
Speaker 3: we did the whole banter segment with Colin, I'm sitting
Speaker 3: watching it might have been a Mets game, might have
Speaker 3: been a different game. I don't remember, and I'm whatever,
Speaker 3: I'm doing other stuff. I'm half paying attention because it's
Speaker 3: you know, it's a commercial and I'm like, is that
Speaker 3: the opening rift to Lette Craze the Septicon? And of
Speaker 3: course it is, because something else sounds like that, like
Speaker 3: you can't even really do a soundalike of it. So
Speaker 3: I look up, I'm like, what the hell is this
Speaker 3: an ad for? And it's Bush's Baked Beans, And I'm
Speaker 3: just like, are you like? I hope Kathleen Hannah is
Speaker 3: getting a good check for this, at least I know
Speaker 3: she's she's still touring, Like Bikini Kill just did a
Speaker 3: big tour and they I just got to email about
Speaker 3: the thirtieth the doing a thirtieth anniversary album, But now
Speaker 3: we got to get that that beautiful bean money. I guess.
Speaker 1: I don't know what else to say.
Speaker 3: Yeah, obviously no one at bushes listening to the lyrics,
Speaker 3: not that they play the lyrics.
Speaker 1: Well, maybe they did, and that's why they don't play that.
Speaker 1: You know, it's hard to say. I don't think I
Speaker 1: have I really have any uh any banter at this.
Speaker 3: Point, I should know. The reason I mentioned I'm getting
Speaker 3: punished is it now plays every single commercial break. Yes, Liberty, Liberty,
Speaker 3: I get that commercial break.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we already did. Delibery. I continued to dislike the
Speaker 1: the personification of liberty is it personification?
Speaker 3: Is it's just like a ball, It's like a qualification, muppetification.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, the digitized muppet.
Speaker 3: Yeah that is you know it's not you know it's
Speaker 3: not a real puppet. No, they didn't know that's the puppet.
Speaker 1: That's c G.
Speaker 3: I yeah, that's c G.
Speaker 1: I absolutely. Uh, I don't they do need to figure out,
Speaker 1: like they played these same ads every single time, and
Speaker 1: I know they've got to have other Well, it wasn't.
Speaker 3: The whole point of selling it to ESPN is that
Speaker 3: ESPN had more or could sell ads or more interested
Speaker 3: in selling ads th MLB was.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I think, do.
Speaker 2: You actually watch it on ESPN's problem?
Speaker 1: No, I don't.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, but I think, but I think you
Speaker 3: still get like ESPN still puts like their ads for
Speaker 3: ESPN stuff in.
Speaker 1: It for ESPN stuff, but they're not selling ads to other.
Speaker 3: I mean they assume they are still they like, I
Speaker 3: don't think MLB is still selling ads for.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 1: Maybe they don't think the Google the Google.
Speaker 3: And maybe ESPN just inherited the advertisers.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well my issue isn't even I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: like a lot of the ads, but my main issue
Speaker 1: is the volume, uh and the number volume of times
Speaker 1: of seeing the ad.
Speaker 3: Oh, I mean the actual volume. The ads are the
Speaker 3: volume broadcast.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, and yes we are just old people complaining,
Speaker 1: but which it's it's true, it's valid, but we are
Speaker 1: just old people complaining about this, but it is it.
Speaker 1: They have to know that someone who's logging into CE
Speaker 1: like for an MLB TV subscription or the ESPN MLB
Speaker 1: TV subscription is using it a lot to watch and
Speaker 1: they just put the same the same three ads. It's
Speaker 1: the same idea, like March Madness is grading in terms
Speaker 1: of the number of times you see those ads. But
Speaker 1: you do understand that it is a lot of inventory,
Speaker 1: but for a limited time in an event that is
Speaker 1: gets a massive amount of eyeballs, and so they're just
Speaker 1: giving the advertiser they charge them, you know, they rake
Speaker 1: them over the calls on the on the money, but
Speaker 1: they say, you're you're gonna get a lot of eyeballs
Speaker 1: on this and a lot of repeat eyeballs. Fine, this
Speaker 1: is one hundred and sixty two games of thirty teen
Speaker 1: you know fifty you know, fifteen matchups, right, Like, it's
Speaker 1: a ton of inventory over six months. Yeah, we don't
Speaker 1: need to take the same.
Speaker 3: Approach they're doing. Since they're doing like an MLB TV unwrapped. Now,
Speaker 3: I want to know how many times I had to
Speaker 3: watch the Liberty Liberty ad. I want it in there,
Speaker 3: like how many home runs I saw? How many strikeouts?
Speaker 3: How many Liberty Liberties.
Speaker 1: I don't know. How does the MLBtv unwrapped work if
Speaker 1: I'm watching it on different platforms Like I watched and
Speaker 1: I don't know, I watch.
Speaker 3: The same it's the same account R because they're still
Speaker 3: tied to the same it is email account as long.
Speaker 2: As you're logged into your account. It's like Spotify. It's like,
Speaker 2: you know, it's Whatever's.
Speaker 1: It didn't work for me last time, so I couldn't
Speaker 1: do it for whatever. I don't know why.
Speaker 2: Okay, here's here's what I want to know, not the
Speaker 2: R MLB TV wrapped. I want to know at like
Speaker 2: the year end advertising assessment meeting at Liberty how they rate.
Speaker 1: Which is which is at a five star resort somewhere?
Speaker 2: Because I from experience, I have to think that anyone
Speaker 2: who is actually engaged with MLB TV while these liberty
Speaker 2: ads on are on, would rather choose anyone else to
Speaker 2: see you.
Speaker 3: Say that, but like, there is value in just having
Speaker 3: your name repeating the name over and over again.
Speaker 1: Now you're looking for insurance. I mean, all these insurance
Speaker 1: companies do it. So maybe there's a like a diletorious
Speaker 1: effect or whatever going on, but like the fact is,
Speaker 1: like you're not necessarily going to look up your local
Speaker 1: like insurer or whatever. You're gonna be like, well, here
Speaker 1: are the companies that do it. Progressive Liberty, Mutual, Farmers, Farmers,
Speaker 1: All State, Nationwide, Geico, su Ye, right, Like it's like
Speaker 1: who does it these people? Okay? I had I had
Speaker 1: a h ACT issue a few weeks ago, and it
Speaker 1: was a so that we have a we have a
Speaker 1: regular H track company, but they were closed on Sunday,
Speaker 1: but the air conditioning wasn't working upstairs. It was like
Speaker 1: ninety degrees. So I had to call someone that day
Speaker 1: to see and I just looked up one of the
Speaker 1: two company or both the two companies that I see
Speaker 1: trucks driving around in the area, because I was like, well,
Speaker 1: are they open Sunday? And do they have good reviews?
Speaker 1: Like I looked into them whatever, But like I didn't
Speaker 1: look at every local company. I was just like, well,
Speaker 1: these guys are around there. I see them, you know,
Speaker 1: for an emergency. It it worked.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but what if they parked outside and
Speaker 2: blocked your driveway?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Maybe? Oh And speaking of which, so while we're on
Speaker 1: this is actually I said I had no no banter
Speaker 1: and it's it's gone long. But NJM. That's how I
Speaker 1: feel about NJM. Are you guys aware of that one?
Speaker 2: I don't know what that is, so I.
Speaker 1: Don't know if it actually stands for this, but they
Speaker 1: are saying in the commercials it stands for no jingles
Speaker 1: or mascots. It's an insurance company, and they do their
Speaker 1: entire premise of their series of commercials because every insurance
Speaker 1: company has to do this right now is insurance Annoya.
Speaker 1: They show it constantly on MLB TV. It's the guy
Speaker 1: singing Michelle Branch in a It says he has Insure
Speaker 1: Annoya and he's in a convertible and it like pulls
Speaker 1: up next to a position. Okay, well whatever, Well he's singing,
Speaker 1: and then it pans out and it turns out his
Speaker 1: car is on a tow truck because he won't actually
Speaker 1: drive it because he has insure Annoya. That is the
Speaker 1: best one of their series of commercials like this. It
Speaker 1: is essentially like here's an asshole. They should have MJM.
Speaker 1: And I'm always like, well, why would I want that?
Speaker 1: It appears to be insurance for assholes? Like one of
Speaker 1: them is just a woman who is putting like sunlight
Speaker 1: level daylight via whatever they're called, like stadium lights on
Speaker 1: her house at all times. And I'm like, and it's
Speaker 1: like her neighbors are unhappy in the commercial, Yeah they
Speaker 1: would be. And I'm like, great, so you've got this
Speaker 1: giant asshole. And they're like, Sally has insur anoia, blah
Speaker 1: blah blah, she should have n j M. And I'm
Speaker 1: like this, You're you're basically saying we're the insurance for
Speaker 1: the worst people on earth. Join us. I don't get it.
Speaker 1: I don't get it. Someone out there explain it to me, please.
Speaker 1: What's that?
Speaker 3: I was singing a Michelle Branch song, not a jingle.
Speaker 1: Well it's not a that was a full fledged song, Jeffrey,
Speaker 1: but it's still it's not the whole song, singing the chorus. No,
Speaker 1: you just straight up singing the song.
Speaker 3: Courus is a jingle? Fine and good for her her
Speaker 3: and Kathleen Hannah. I just living the life.
Speaker 1: See. But You're like, is Michelle Brinch still touring. I
Speaker 1: haven't gotten a problem an email about it. Probably all right,
Speaker 1: let's get into the show. I'm so sorry. Speaking of
Speaker 1: we have our first segment title. I don't want this,
Speaker 1: I don't need this. That's how we all feel about
Speaker 1: these commercials. It's how we feel about the AL Wildcard race.
Speaker 1: It will probably lead every single segment, every single show
Speaker 1: from here to the end of the season. We'll start
Speaker 1: with my my Orioles.
Speaker 3: I was writing so high you were, and then exactly
Speaker 3: what you predicted happened.
Speaker 1: I did. I do want to I do get to
Speaker 1: ride a little high because they said they're going to
Speaker 1: lose four in a row and we are three fourths
Speaker 1: of the way there.
Speaker 3: I do think we need to start every one of
Speaker 3: these segments. Was just trying to guess who the ALE
Speaker 3: Wildcard leader is because I guess wrong this morning when
Speaker 3: I started putting the doctor.
Speaker 1: Together, I have not looked.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I haven't the answer.
Speaker 1: No, I read I read your news.
Speaker 3: I know who it is, but I was pretty sure
Speaker 3: it was the Rangers. It is actually the Twins. Tomorrow
Speaker 3: it might be the Rangers.
Speaker 1: The Rangers are a mere half game back. Yes, they're closest.
Speaker 2: The Twins swept the Braves.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that is.
Speaker 3: Yes, they are like great for the Braves. They got
Speaker 3: their three game win streak like the Orioles did last week,
Speaker 3: so they are now they have now toppled there now.
Speaker 1: Right, and anyone who's just finished a three game win
Speaker 1: streak will will retain the You.
Speaker 3: Just want to have the last three game win streak
Speaker 3: in this group, basically, I think the.
Speaker 2: Two gamer will do it.
Speaker 3: You're going to look up the last day of the season.
Speaker 3: You just want to see last ten, six and four,
Speaker 3: that's what you want to see.
Speaker 1: That's uh. Once once again, starting with with the third
Speaker 1: wild card. No, there is one six and four. I'm
Speaker 1: sorry I thought there was nobody. It is the Toronto
Speaker 1: Blue Jays.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're winning today too, and they are winning today.
Speaker 1: Dazz can hit a home run. But let's stick with
Speaker 1: the Orioles for a second, because I don't did either
Speaker 1: of you watch any of or at least see the highlights.
Speaker 2: I mean I saw in particular, I saw a very
Speaker 2: specific highlight.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, the non home run, the foul ball. I
Speaker 1: don't know how that was a foul ball, am I am?
Speaker 1: I I'm not trying to be biased for my orioles.
Speaker 1: But like it went over the foul pole, and my
Speaker 1: understanding was over the foul pole is the same as
Speaker 1: hitting the foul pol Yes, understanding what's that, chef?
Speaker 3: These things happened in three dimensions. You're watching them on
Speaker 3: a two dimensional screen, Craig.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, look it's the But from best I could
Speaker 1: tell what were they watching? Then?
Speaker 3: Now they called it foul on the field, right, So
Speaker 3: they had to be right. They had to be They
Speaker 3: had to have a clear angle of it. I mean
Speaker 3: it was over the fell. I agree with you. I
Speaker 3: think I.
Speaker 1: Also think if they can mod I don't want to
Speaker 1: get into this because poor Mike Petriello had to get
Speaker 1: into people who don't understand how the home run distance
Speaker 1: thing works. But if they can track the ball and
Speaker 1: do the home run distance by taking its highest point
Speaker 1: in the parabolic arc, and.
Speaker 3: They sometimes have to adjust tho afterwards.
Speaker 1: So right, sure they but they have time to that
Speaker 1: can happen relatively quickly. It's not always hours later.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, If if they can do that, why can't they
Speaker 1: model a higher foul pole and also track the ball?
Speaker 1: If it's wrong, is it not? Probably a better estimate
Speaker 1: of what's going on then a guy who had to
Speaker 1: turn and spin and see it in real time.
Speaker 3: What we need to do is put a stadium floodlight
Speaker 3: on each foul pole. She like light the beam, you
Speaker 3: have a beam.
Speaker 1: I have not understood. I actually have not understood why
Speaker 1: they haven't done essentially the infrared or whatever, like something
Speaker 1: that ends up and have something on the ball that
Speaker 1: would tell you whether it Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well if soccer can tell you if it like touched
Speaker 3: somebody's hair, right, if the ball moved off hitting somebody's hair.
Speaker 3: You think with baseball as they would be able to
Speaker 3: figure out, you know, track them in real time with
Speaker 3: the radars.
Speaker 1: But right, I say they had that thing on soccer,
Speaker 1: the meter, then.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I think it's you gotta like you know,
Speaker 3: I hitting it over like this is a recurring issue,
Speaker 3: like trying to read it when it goes over the
Speaker 3: foul pol right, it goes left or right of the
Speaker 3: foul ball, you just look for the ball disappears or
Speaker 3: doesn't right.
Speaker 1: This is the Bryce Harper Hunter's trickland ball too, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, like people argue about that and that's that's fine.
Speaker 1: But like again, every every angle I saw.
Speaker 3: Sure look run on the field. I'm sure it would
Speaker 3: have been upheld as a home run.
Speaker 1: Right they said stands, They did not say confirms, And
Speaker 1: I understand that, but I also think they should be
Speaker 1: empowered to make like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I guess, But also I don't.
Speaker 1: Like this this the overturned confirmed stands, tryad thing. I
Speaker 1: don't think the call in the field should necessarily be
Speaker 1: given primacy. The people doing the review have more angles
Speaker 1: and more time and slower motion to make determination. Their
Speaker 1: best determination is the best determination.
Speaker 3: I've seen this suggested with the AR sometimes where it's like,
Speaker 3: I mean, obviously off sides or if the ball cross
Speaker 3: the line is pretty much automated at this point. But
Speaker 3: for like other stuff, the DAR should not know the
Speaker 3: call on the field before right right, But it was
Speaker 3: hard to do because they're watching the whole game as
Speaker 3: it goes, obviously, But like it's easier for MLB. I
Speaker 3: feel like where you're only sending you know, certain they
Speaker 3: have like thirteen monitors up or whatever, you're only sending
Speaker 3: certain calls there, like they don't have to know what
Speaker 3: the call in the field is. You ring a bell
Speaker 3: and you look, they look at this play and they
Speaker 3: look at the play and they say, Okay, Sayer, he's
Speaker 3: out right.
Speaker 1: Don't tell them someone saw it it is. But I
Speaker 1: also just think it should be the replace determination sure,
Speaker 1: whether they know it or not.
Speaker 2: Frankly, yeah, they should just make whatever the fifty one
Speaker 2: to forty nine call is, the fifty one should should ring.
Speaker 2: I think that's a perfectly reasonable way to feel. I
Speaker 2: don't know that. I mean, I don't know what the
Speaker 2: technology is like to actually do this with the over
Speaker 2: the foul pole thing. I think it's still just going
Speaker 2: to be a guy looking at the screen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but.
Speaker 2: If they're fifty one percent confident verse forty nine, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I just think if even if it's a guy just
Speaker 1: looking at the screen, I just think that's a better
Speaker 1: it's a better understanding of what what is going on
Speaker 1: than someone who had to watch it in real time
Speaker 1: and try. And it's true, we also doesn't mean it
Speaker 1: will be right one hundred percent of the time.
Speaker 3: We don't even have like cameras on every base right now,
Speaker 3: which something thing you think they could fig I.
Speaker 1: Guess that's the other thing is why is there not
Speaker 1: like just a straight, like a steady cam down the line? Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: like that should that angle should be on every like
Speaker 1: I'm down, both lines should just be a standard angle. Now,
Speaker 1: it doesn't always provide clarification, but it seemed like, again,
Speaker 1: combine that with some of the other looks and you
Speaker 1: get closer to you know, I don't know something substantive.
Speaker 2: Got a camera right on top of the foul pole
Speaker 2: looking straight at the sky.
Speaker 1: Look, if I had to deal with dirt cam, that
Speaker 1: was completely useless for a base cam. Again, they always
Speaker 1: do basse cam like they're showing us the base, but
Speaker 1: they're just showing us someone running at a base. It
Speaker 1: doesn't solve.
Speaker 2: It's never would have lost like exactly one of these
Speaker 2: foul pole cameras. Ever, it's the O'Neal cruise balance off
Speaker 2: the top. That's the only one that would have ever
Speaker 2: been hit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah it is. Yeah, I don't know. I I Also,
Speaker 1: here's the other question. It was a tie game at
Speaker 1: the time, right, the Orioles lose this game by two. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe they make different picture decisions. Yeah presumably, But do
Speaker 1: you feel the lost hinges on this?
Speaker 3: I mean to an extent, Like that's the other thing.
Speaker 3: We're talking about this so much because it was a
Speaker 3: fairly high leverage situation both for the game and really,
Speaker 3: you know, for the oriel season to an extent at
Speaker 3: this point, absolutely, you know that's about it is like
Speaker 3: that somebody's gonna win this wildcard by one game or
Speaker 3: have tied and have the tiebreaker, right, Like, I don't
Speaker 3: think I don't feel like any of these al teams
Speaker 3: are gonna put a lot of daylight between themselves and
Speaker 3: the six teams in it right now.
Speaker 1: I will also point out, by the way, it was
Speaker 1: Pee Alonzo who hit it. Yep, As we noted last podcast,
Speaker 1: Pete Alonzo on an absolute tale he already had a
Speaker 1: home run in that you already had a home run
Speaker 1: in the game. Right He is slugging eight thirty seven
Speaker 1: over the last two weeks, He's up to a one
Speaker 1: forty one ops.
Speaker 3: Plus, and the Orioles have been under five hundreds, under
Speaker 3: five hundred.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I will say I will also say
Speaker 1: this following up from last podcast. I think I already
Speaker 1: sent this to Zach in a chat, but I asked
Speaker 1: a friend of mine who's a big, big Orioles fan,
Speaker 1: because I said, like, is this what people want? Right?
Speaker 1: Is this exciting for people? Is it pulling people in
Speaker 1: the way MLB might want it to. And I and like,
Speaker 1: you know, just out of curiosity, what is this like
Speaker 1: for you? Like this is not a good team, but
Speaker 1: you're in it, And he said the things that you
Speaker 1: would normally expect, like once it doesn't really matter, like
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna apologize if they make the playoffs, like
Speaker 1: how they got there. I want them to make the
Speaker 1: playoffs unless he said, I if I knew Michael Oas
Speaker 1: was getting fired, I would accept not making the playoffs.
Speaker 1: But he said, you know, I want to make the playoffs.
Speaker 1: I said, but but like I was like, how does
Speaker 1: it feel though, and he was like, well, it's absolutely
Speaker 1: miserable watching them every game, but the time between games
Speaker 1: is not so bad.
Speaker 3: I think, like I felt a little bit this towards
Speaker 3: the end of the season with the Mets last year,
Speaker 3: like I'm mad, I have to care about this, and
Speaker 3: not just like that I have to care about this
Speaker 3: met scene that's playing badly, but also like I have
Speaker 3: to check this Red's Diamondbacks game out right in September,
Speaker 3: and like care about the outcome and how Tony Santalon
Speaker 3: is pitching, Like I don't like you don't like, that's
Speaker 3: not that's not fun. I feel like not a fun experience.
Speaker 2: I mean, the Orioles are a weird one because they're
Speaker 2: I mean, they care about Pete Alonzo right now, who's
Speaker 2: been there for less than a year. Their second best
Speaker 2: position player at the moment, I mean might be Christian
Speaker 2: Carnassio and Strand who's been there for Like, it's definitely.
Speaker 3: Christian and.
Speaker 1: Who is playing third base?
Speaker 3: Yes, Craig did not know that. I said this to you,
Speaker 3: Like the first time I noticed he.
Speaker 1: Was, well, Samuel Bisseillos they have d H DH I guess, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean like he could barely play first I don't
Speaker 1: Andrew Vaughan is also playing third base? Are we like,
Speaker 1: what's happening?
Speaker 2: We're going back to the shift days but without the shift?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Right, exactly. Anyway, I cut you off.
Speaker 2: They're pining for the return of Blaize Alexander.
Speaker 3: Oh sure.
Speaker 2: Anyway, I just if it were like, oh, Gunner Henderson
Speaker 2: and Colton Cowser and Pi Alonzo were like carrying this
Speaker 2: team and everyone else is bad. Yeah, even the exact
Speaker 2: same record and same results would feel different, I think,
Speaker 2: But it is like, no Gunner Henderson's still in the gutter.
Speaker 2: Let's let's see what this team can do.
Speaker 3: I think there's also that.
Speaker 1: I mean, Simuel Besido is I guess he's back maybe
Speaker 1: so he's one of the top three players. I think
Speaker 1: they're happy with him, right, and there's some progress there.
Speaker 1: He's not dominating, but yeah, I mean, I.
Speaker 3: Mean for a twenty year older, twenty one year old
Speaker 3: rookie like he's having with injuries all year, yeah, and
Speaker 3: played through a lot of them, it's you know, it's fine.
Speaker 1: Kobe Mayo is up to a league average slash line,
Speaker 1: so he's been which means he's been pretty good of late.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Ik Kowser has been better recently too. But again,
Speaker 3: I think you're gonna get the problem is. I agree
Speaker 3: that if you make the playoffs and apologize for it,
Speaker 3: but you're gonna feel bad if they lose by a
Speaker 3: game and are like eighty and eighty two and missed
Speaker 3: out by a game. You're like, I cared too much
Speaker 3: about this in September. Nice anymore, I could have gone
Speaker 3: on more walks like.
Speaker 1: Right, No, he's he's miserable in the sense he says
Speaker 1: like watch and also I think obviously expectations play a big,
Speaker 1: big shart. They expected this team to be maybe not
Speaker 1: division winners, but like good, they expected a good team,
Speaker 1: like a good, solid team. And it's just every every
Speaker 1: game there's you know, I'm sure, I'm sure this is
Speaker 1: true every disappointing team, but like he was, like, the
Speaker 1: fundamentals on this team are atrocious, Like they just they
Speaker 1: don't play good defense. They like they screw They screw
Speaker 1: up basic stuff a lot, and that's part of how
Speaker 1: they got where they are. But it's also like, you know,
Speaker 1: it's not just that injuries sunk them. They've been injured
Speaker 1: for sure, But yeah, I don't know, and it's not
Speaker 1: gonna be the same story for every team, Like I think,
Speaker 1: you know, we've talked about if the White Sox lose
Speaker 1: the Central somehow and miss out on the playoffs, I
Speaker 1: don't know that their fans. Their fans might be disappointed
Speaker 1: in the end but happy with the season. Right is.
Speaker 1: It's a completely unexpected trajectory, and I but I still
Speaker 1: go back to, like I wonder if over a three
Speaker 1: year period, you're gonna if this keeps happening, And I
Speaker 1: don't know that it will. This is a weird number
Speaker 1: of We've had the sixth wild card for a few years.
Speaker 1: It hasn't happened this way like this many bad teams
Speaker 1: until now. But if this keeps happening you, I think
Speaker 1: you're gonna end up where the NBA is, where people
Speaker 1: just stop kind of checking in until I mean, I
Speaker 1: think the two months out of the.
Speaker 3: Playoffs, have ten teams in the playoffs with a play
Speaker 3: in game to sell to burious.
Speaker 1: Going to try to expand the play at least, that's right.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's the other part is is and
Speaker 1: you wrote about this, Zach, not in his most recent newsletter,
Speaker 1: but the one before, which I thought was fantastic. You know,
Speaker 1: Rob Manfred saying you had a great line. I think
Speaker 1: it was like Rob Manfred saying that we were really
Speaker 1: happy with, like we think we have the right number of.
Speaker 2: He was in a sweet spot. Yeah, you call it
Speaker 2: in the sweet spot.
Speaker 1: And that sweet spot will be also be seven teams
Speaker 1: when it suits.
Speaker 2: Yeah, when the money is right, the sweet spot will
Speaker 2: get bigger. And that's just how it works. Like he's bragging.
Speaker 1: It's a torpedo, bat Zach. He's just moving the sweet
Speaker 1: spot right like, and they're.
Speaker 3: Going to go to the you know, they're going to
Speaker 3: go to TVs or ESPN, ABC, Disney, whatever and based
Speaker 3: or Netflix at some point maybe and just be like, look,
Speaker 3: if you don't you don't love me at my Guardian's raised,
Speaker 3: you don't deserve me at my Red Sox Yankees, right Like,
Speaker 3: It's like, I don't.
Speaker 2: Know, but it's it's gonna be a problem. This is
Speaker 2: the thing. Like last year they had these Honestly, I
Speaker 2: think the NL race was as bad as this one.
Speaker 2: Last year. We just didn't realize it because the Mets
Speaker 2: fell from so far they ended up in the same
Speaker 2: place these teams are gonna end up. But you know,
Speaker 2: they they lucked into Red Sox Yankees and Otani playing
Speaker 2: in the wild Card Series last year, and it's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's gonna work.
Speaker 3: They might get it again this year.
Speaker 2: They're gonna get something every year that kind of works.
Speaker 1: And I think that well, honestly, even Seattle Detroit, right
Speaker 1: that was was that?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: It was Cleveland Detroit, Cleveland Detroit, and then Detroit Seattle
Speaker 3: and ye okay.
Speaker 1: So I'm not Cleveland Detroit wasn't that nothing. It was
Speaker 1: it was a multi game, you know, it was a
Speaker 1: three game series or whatever. But yeah, yeah, no, I
Speaker 1: I get what you're saying in terms of of like
Speaker 1: it's always bad teams, but even the Giants who finished
Speaker 1: two games out were were five hundred, right, So the
Speaker 1: Mets had a huge fall from grace, but they were
Speaker 1: eighty three and seventy nine. Yeah, like that that is the.
Speaker 2: The I think the al third wild card this year
Speaker 2: will end up eighty three and seventy nine.
Speaker 1: Maybe do you think three teams?
Speaker 2: So that the the I didn't say that, right.
Speaker 1: Well, so that but that's kind of the difference, right,
Speaker 1: is that, like there's at least a little bit of
Speaker 1: depth at five hundred or above. Now maybe look now
Speaker 1: you want to tell me I'm picking knits. It's fair, right,
Speaker 1: I mean it's these were these were not good teams,
Speaker 1: which is the broader point.
Speaker 3: Now is but they were the West winner and the
Speaker 3: wild card going to get to eighty three wins?
Speaker 2: That would I mean, that is another factor. I don't know,
Speaker 2: but yeah, that would make it worse. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think this is what it sets up as. This
Speaker 2: is how teams are incentivized. Which problem with this whole
Speaker 2: thing and also not a problem from the perspective of
Speaker 2: the teams and MLB. So that's where we're that's where
Speaker 2: we're at.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I'm sure the Tigers are feeling like we
Speaker 3: made we really boosted our farm system, including guys that
Speaker 3: can help next year. And if we get in and
Speaker 3: we get in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's a head right, I mean, the weirdest
Speaker 2: thing and maybe the worst thing. It depends on your perspective.
Speaker 2: Maybe the worst thing that can happen is the Tigers
Speaker 2: are Mariners, or I'm gonna leave it at the Tigers
Speaker 2: or Mariners get into the playoffs at like eighty one
Speaker 2: and eighty one or eighty or under five hundred, and
Speaker 2: then they win the whole thing because they can. Those
Speaker 2: teams are good enough to win the World Series. Like
Speaker 2: in theory, they are obviously not good enough right this second,
Speaker 2: but the rock.
Speaker 3: Of that group they have a better change. Like, none
Speaker 3: of these teams are likely, but they have a better
Speaker 3: chance probably than the Twins or the Guardians.
Speaker 2: Or the Thes especially.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel that's true for the I don't know
Speaker 1: if I see World Series winners look any anything. Sure,
Speaker 1: I don't like the Tigers. It's harder to.
Speaker 3: See without the pitching yeah. I will also point out
Speaker 3: George Craby gave up six runs in the first inning today, so.
Speaker 2: Maybe yeah, the Mariners are used to give you enough
Speaker 2: runs in the in the last few days.
Speaker 1: I know they came back and won yesterday, but twenty
Speaker 1: two to nothing. My god, I Zach, I don't know
Speaker 1: not to put you on the spot, but I really
Speaker 1: did love that newsletter. I don't know if you want
Speaker 1: to get into any or you know, drop a brief
Speaker 1: version of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, might not have read it. The gist of
Speaker 2: the newsletter bandwagon dot ghost dot io free to read.
Speaker 2: The gist was there's no such thing as a Pennant
Speaker 2: race anymore because the I did a very long Kentucky
Speaker 2: Derby metaphor. But essentially, sports sell the thing that the
Speaker 2: audience is most interested in buying, and that can create
Speaker 2: that sensitives to some things we don't usually want to
Speaker 2: think about horse racing. That's gambling interests. And the reason
Speaker 2: certain horse that the age at the Kentucky Derby is
Speaker 2: what it is is not because the horses are the best.
Speaker 2: It's because that's when they're most unpredictable, and so we
Speaker 2: find the best horse at a time when they're not
Speaker 2: at their best yet. And that's pretty much.
Speaker 1: What we're doing.
Speaker 2: We moved the important race in baseball from first, which
Speaker 2: decided the World Series for so long, or from you know, second,
Speaker 2: which decided the NLCS the ALCS. We moved it down
Speaker 2: and down and down and down to sixth because the
Speaker 2: current thing that is sellable is immediate stakes. It is
Speaker 2: a one game playoff. It is more playoff series period.
Speaker 2: It is that like, what is the amount of money
Speaker 2: you can make in a mass audience in one weekend?
Speaker 2: And that's the playoffs And there's no regular season equivalent
Speaker 2: of that right now. For that, you know, baseball does
Speaker 2: not believe there's a regular season equivalent of that. And
Speaker 2: I think until you run into something that arrests that factor,
Speaker 2: you're just gonna keep getting more playoff teams and more
Speaker 2: of a race to the bottom.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I have to tell you, I also immediately
Speaker 1: thought of March madness when you're talking about the the
Speaker 1: unpredictability when when you're describing and I, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: not that deep into horse race or anything, so I
Speaker 1: didn't know that was specifically the reason. It makes a
Speaker 1: lot of sense that it's like, yes, there's there's like
Speaker 1: a clear sense of some horses are better than others,
Speaker 1: but also so subject to variance that it's interesting. And
Speaker 1: that's it's a lot of college sports, a lot of
Speaker 1: minor league you know. It's actually part of what I
Speaker 1: really like about going to minor league games or tracking
Speaker 1: prospects is like you get a sense of it, but
Speaker 1: it's not it's not fato complete, right, Like it's not assured.
Speaker 1: And and so I thought a lot about you know,
Speaker 1: college football, college basketball, stuff like that, where again you
Speaker 1: get a lot of the way there, but not all
Speaker 1: the way there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think it's it's what people want in
Speaker 2: a lot of things. I don't mind it in college football.
Speaker 2: I certainly don't mind it in college basketball. But I
Speaker 2: think baseball's ethos is such that the point has always
Speaker 2: been to find you know, the World Series has been
Speaker 2: the thing, and you want to see the best teams
Speaker 2: are at least a reasonable facsimile of the best teams,
Speaker 2: and that that ethos doesn't match well.
Speaker 1: I do think it should. I think it should be
Speaker 1: necessarily different at the professional levels than college Like when
Speaker 1: I seek that out, I seek it out in college
Speaker 1: sports for a reason, and not at the professional level.
Speaker 1: I think the professional level should be about being the
Speaker 1: best and being number one, and like having that that
Speaker 1: aspect of it, that determinative aspect of it. What I
Speaker 1: like about the various college stuff is like you get
Speaker 1: all the different you know, whether it's formations in college football,
Speaker 1: or you know, you just get those teams that press
Speaker 1: all the time in college basketball or whatever, like it's
Speaker 1: they're doing, it's a different. It's just a different.
Speaker 2: It's strategic variance because their little guys know their little guys,
Speaker 2: and they change their shape to beat the big guys,
Speaker 2: and in baseball does the exact opposite. It creates where
Speaker 2: everyone can be exactly the same and have the same
Speaker 2: rewards sticking their neck out.
Speaker 1: Exactly all right. So I interjected that on Zach's behalf
Speaker 1: because I really I did love it. But what I
Speaker 1: mean in terms of the A, I think it all
Speaker 1: applies here to the to the AL wild card. I
Speaker 1: don't know what other teams are we wanting to talk
Speaker 1: about Detroit.
Speaker 3: Want is such a strong word. Christ what other teams are.
Speaker 1: We scheduled to talk about? Jeffery, Detroit had a really
Speaker 1: rough loss last night.
Speaker 3: Kenley Dancing give up two home runs in the ninth,
Speaker 3: which is happening.
Speaker 1: Midlean Belt, high inner half cutters to Brandon Lau, I'm
Speaker 1: finding out.
Speaker 3: Hit two home runs. They want to make it three
Speaker 3: to two and then want to tie it in the ninth.
Speaker 2: I think, okay, Greg, this is the proper response. But
Speaker 2: this guy's stats slash slash line recently is insane. He
Speaker 2: has hit like five homers.
Speaker 1: No oh sure, no, no, I honestly didn't hear who
Speaker 1: he said. I did. I did see that he was.
Speaker 1: He had a very hot week and he was the
Speaker 1: part of the return in one of the Yankees trades.
Speaker 1: They trade a lot with the Yankees. I'm not keeping.
Speaker 3: Trade.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, a lot of maybe maybe catchers too
Speaker 1: like that? Yeah, oh right, this was It was when
Speaker 1: with Edgelen Paris, who was also a catcher. That was
Speaker 1: the Bedmard trade. Yeah yeah, no, I well again, and
Speaker 1: and Flores is having the hot week like as Merlin
Speaker 1: Valdez or whatever you know. I bring him up every
Speaker 1: freaking podcasts. I will also once again reference my friend Shocker,
Speaker 1: the Detroit fan. He just within the last hour, since
Speaker 1: every day I learn a new fact about the Tigers,
Speaker 1: and every day it makes me mad today is the
Speaker 1: Tigers have the most games played in baseball this year,
Speaker 1: in which they held the league through the sixth. The
Speaker 1: name so I said, they had a bad loss this week,
Speaker 1: but they've had a lot of bad losses. He went
Speaker 1: through in a chat the other day. After this this,
Speaker 1: I guess yesterday after Kenley's blown safe, they have four
Speaker 1: of the top I don't know, twenty blown saves, like
Speaker 1: relievers with blown saves in the league.
Speaker 3: It's I feel like they could have traded.
Speaker 1: For a reliever. Yes, I see with four.
Speaker 3: Even with selling at the deadline, you can still have
Speaker 3: like added two relievers just you know, just I think.
Speaker 1: You could have probably weased out an extra relief arm
Speaker 1: from the Dodgers, probably somewhere right like maybe not even
Speaker 1: Kyle Hurt or something, but like somebody just throw them in.
Speaker 1: They're not it's not going to be a ball breaker
Speaker 1: over trk Schoole. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: I think they're gonna have to stop using the term
Speaker 2: pitching chaos after this particular derogatory.
Speaker 1: We're just gonna add derogatory.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: As we talked about the Twins, they've won three in
Speaker 1: a row. They have Why why is Walker Jenkins not here?
Speaker 3: It's a good question.
Speaker 2: Gotta be soon.
Speaker 3: It's pass. We're past the club back date. He'll have
Speaker 3: PPI eligibility next year as well.
Speaker 5: Emanuel Rodriguez currently upright, yep, he's currently hitting very well.
Speaker 3: And Byron Buckson is neither of those things.
Speaker 1: So so, just like it can't be that they have
Speaker 1: too many guys the Twins rest rest one of them ever,
Speaker 1: like rotate him around five days a week or whatever.
Speaker 2: They don't have to invent a position lower on the
Speaker 2: defensive spectrum than d h from Luke to play.
Speaker 1: He's playing right field.
Speaker 2: Anymore.
Speaker 1: If the outfielders, yeah, I mean I I was tempted
Speaker 1: to say the Trevor Laarna can't possibly be that good.
Speaker 1: But he's been pretty good.
Speaker 3: Fine, he's been fine, Booth the solution and the problem
Speaker 3: here well, But so he's the reason Cody Clemens playing
Speaker 3: second base instead of first is the reason Luke Keishall
Speaker 3: is in right field instead of second base, which he,
Speaker 3: as Zach is pointing.
Speaker 1: Out, cannot play because Royce Lewis is now at first,
Speaker 1: because brooks Lee is at third, because they called it
Speaker 1: Kayln Culpepper.
Speaker 3: Who's been good.
Speaker 1: Who's been good?
Speaker 2: Yeah, best players on the Twins are all the rookies
Speaker 2: who are It's like it's in verse, it's Byron Buxton
Speaker 2: and all the guys you've never heard of. That's one
Speaker 2: of the best players.
Speaker 1: All of those guys need time off, is my sense.
Speaker 1: So just bring up Walker to figure it out. This
Speaker 1: is why you have apparently Derek Shelton. I continue to
Speaker 1: not understand that higher personally, but like he's there, so
Speaker 1: have him figure it out. Uh, I don't know, and.
Speaker 3: Like again like a yeah, so, yeah, the Mariners had
Speaker 3: made a little they haven't even made a run. They're
Speaker 3: just sitting there two and a half back, which is
Speaker 3: closer than I thought. Oh, they're also losing badly today.
Speaker 1: Yes, you put in the doc here come the Mariners,
Speaker 1: and I wanted to ask you what you thought. What
Speaker 1: what constitutes here come?
Speaker 3: They are two and a half game fact entering players
Speaker 3: to record.
Speaker 1: They're four and six in their last ten. Yeah, sure
Speaker 1: they lost twenty two to nothing, they did, but here
Speaker 1: they come.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can sell them a block away.
Speaker 1: They're they're deteriorating, but they're on the way. Rock Rodden
Speaker 1: is here.
Speaker 3: Rock Rodin is here. Yeah, pre tweeting about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, for sure. I mean that's a Colorado Rockies name.
Speaker 1: But if I've ever heard heard of one, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't know. What. What do you want to say
Speaker 1: about the Mariners, Jeffrey.
Speaker 3: They're also only three and a half out of the division.
Speaker 1: Sure, yes, all these teams are bad.
Speaker 3: I know, Like it's.
Speaker 1: Rodriguez lost track of how many outs.
Speaker 3: There were and in nineteen to nothing game. I feel
Speaker 3: that's fair. I feel like he wanted the inning to
Speaker 3: be over. I get it.
Speaker 1: I mean, I understand that the that the blue Jay's
Speaker 1: Red Sox thing happened with the fourth out, but like
Speaker 1: there is a scoreboard he could.
Speaker 3: Miss the second time this year too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not great. It's not great. In the nl HM,
Speaker 1: things are slightly better than that. There are. The teams
Speaker 1: are have better, teams are better. Yes, the teams are better.
Speaker 3: Teams are not good.
Speaker 1: Teams are better, they are not good. The Padres holds
Speaker 1: the third wild card. They're eighty games over five hundred,
Speaker 1: so I mean, just again.
Speaker 3: I also just lost two of three to the Mets.
Speaker 2: So the Mets are a buzzsaw right now. I you know,
Speaker 2: I am.
Speaker 1: Like this is.
Speaker 3: This is as confident as I've been in a Mets
Speaker 3: bullpen and I don't know how long. And you haven't
Speaker 3: heard of any of these people than Codey Senga, who's closing?
Speaker 1: You know what? Yeah what?
Speaker 3: Daniel Daniel Duarte is nails. Nate Lender looks like the
Speaker 3: first lefty I cannot name. Jeffrey is still doing his thing.
Speaker 3: Oh I think he now has more strikeouts than walks.
Speaker 1: That's good. Yeah, here comes to me.
Speaker 2: Nate Lavender has immediately taken the Luke Weaver mantle of
Speaker 2: way better interview than a bullpen arm should be. Okay,
Speaker 2: you know, sure, it's going well.
Speaker 1: The the Diamondbacks are a game out, but they've you
Speaker 1: have to talk about the catel Marte situation.
Speaker 3: Nobody, like I say, we don't know anything, but it
Speaker 3: does seem like nobody knows anything.
Speaker 1: So he missed a game with some knee irritation.
Speaker 3: No, I mean before that, oh, before that, he came
Speaker 3: out of a game.
Speaker 2: I guess, I'm sure.
Speaker 1: Okay, So he right, he had some New Years.
Speaker 3: A week ago.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought it was with a game or two before.
Speaker 3: I mean it's a week ago now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Okay, Then he just didn't show up for a
Speaker 1: game in Boston. He was in Boston.
Speaker 3: With rights, like he was in the hotel as far
Speaker 3: as I can tell, like he traveled that he didn't
Speaker 3: go to the park.
Speaker 1: He just did not go to the park. They placed
Speaker 1: him on the restricted list, which I will tell you,
Speaker 1: if you don't show up to the park, you're gonna
Speaker 1: get placed on the restricted list. I Jeffrey said, No,
Speaker 1: one really seems to know anything. He's with the team.
Speaker 1: He there is a potential injury.
Speaker 2: He's no, he's no longer with the team because now
Speaker 2: he flew back to Arizona to get his knee looked
Speaker 2: at right.
Speaker 1: Just get it looked at right. Okay. Yeah, So so
Speaker 1: I apologize, thank you for that. I I mean, like
Speaker 1: everyone's kind of like, I hope he's okay. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: it's it's nobody seems to really know in what capacity
Speaker 1: he may or may not be okay.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I'm see this has happened before, although not
Speaker 3: you know, there's the issue around the All Star break last.
Speaker 1: Year from his house being burgled.
Speaker 3: And there was some grumbling I guess maybe from either
Speaker 3: the locker room or the front office that you know,
Speaker 3: is he actually at his burgled house or is he
Speaker 3: somewhere else? And you know, there's like I'm just used
Speaker 3: to an ownership slash front office that will absolutely knighte
Speaker 3: this guy in the side for not showing up, or
Speaker 3: do you doing anything.
Speaker 2: Like this?
Speaker 3: And it has been a little I don't think. I
Speaker 3: don't know that they know. And they being the you know,
Speaker 3: Tori Lavello or the front office exactly what is going on,
Speaker 3: doesn't feel that they've talked to him. It seems unclear
Speaker 3: who has talked to him, if anyone.
Speaker 1: So I have a couple reads on this, and one
Speaker 1: one is so they made him very available, yeah over
Speaker 1: the off season, right, I think as an organization they
Speaker 1: are tired of his ship. Sure, whatever that shit is.
Speaker 3: I don't know if they allowed him to get ten
Speaker 3: and five rights by not trading him this offseason.
Speaker 1: They did, I don't know if they're justified in being
Speaker 1: tired of his ship or not. It's a very confusing
Speaker 1: situation because there was clear dissatisfaction with how long he
Speaker 1: took to come back from the Burgled House thing. Whether
Speaker 1: that dissatisfaction was from front office management, the manager management club,
Speaker 1: the other guys in the clubhouse. It's not entirely clear.
Speaker 1: Nick pikoro of I said Arizona Republic, I think wrote
Speaker 1: an article on this. Nick is a very good reporter
Speaker 1: with a long standing ties to a lot of people
Speaker 1: in that organization. I don't think he'd write it without
Speaker 1: knowing for sure. That's how people felt. It felt like
Speaker 1: real signal. And then I know Heraldo Perdomo it might
Speaker 1: have been. And I think some others came out and
Speaker 1: basically said like, no, we love him like he's the best.
Speaker 1: And obviously there can just be different people in the
Speaker 1: clubhouse who feel different things. It could be that people
Speaker 1: in the clubhouse felt comfortable voicing something anonymously and when
Speaker 1: put in front of a camera, uh or you know,
Speaker 1: a recorder and a notepad, said oh no, I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna knife him publicly. I will only do it, you know,
Speaker 1: behind a cloak. It could be that all the clubhouse,
Speaker 1: the guys in the clubhouse love him and not the manager.
Speaker 1: Or it could be the manager also loves him and
Speaker 1: not the front office. I don't know, but it's something.
Speaker 1: It's one of those there's a split somewhere, yeah, right,
Speaker 1: And and I don't think it's clear at all where
Speaker 1: it is. But someone, and I think it has to
Speaker 1: be at the very least the front office is tired
Speaker 1: of his ship, whatever his ship is. I don't know.
Speaker 3: It's also a lot easier to deal with this ship
Speaker 3: when he's better than a one on five ops plus.
Speaker 1: Sure, Sure, when I mean this, that's a version of
Speaker 1: winning fixes everything. Sure, but even a one on five
Speaker 1: ops plus is in this in this team. Yes, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's tolerable, it's you know, but I don't It's also
Speaker 1: it's not just I remember from the time, it wasn't
Speaker 1: just the burgled house, like, it was about how quickly
Speaker 1: he came back from injuries, how many how you know, he'd.
Speaker 3: Yeah, a lot of stuff like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in that Pechoro article, there was a lot of
Speaker 2: just like he wants days off was the overriding sentiment.
Speaker 2: Even when it's not the burglary or injuries. It was like,
Speaker 2: he just takes days off. And obviously he did take
Speaker 2: a day off in Boston, possibly of the Parrisbueler variety. Uh,
Speaker 2: And I I don't know, Yeah, I mean the real
Speaker 2: answer here is wait till Nick Piercoro figures out what happens,
Speaker 2: because that's pretty much what you do with the Diamondbacks.
Speaker 2: But I also wonder if not trading him is also
Speaker 2: signal in that every other team has figured out what
Speaker 2: his ship is and didn't want to trade for it.
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess, but also.
Speaker 1: Whether they figured it out or not if they don't know,
Speaker 1: every single signal the Diamondbacks as an organization have put
Speaker 1: out there is this guy's problematic in some way, shape
Speaker 1: or for him. Why would why would you pay full
Speaker 1: freight for him?
Speaker 3: But I mean also given how much he's making and
Speaker 3: given how good he is, like, also just give him
Speaker 3: the day off a week if you trade for him.
Speaker 1: That's it.
Speaker 3: That's like, I mean, if you know that's built into
Speaker 3: the whatever, Like.
Speaker 1: There are always guys who are head cases, like too
Speaker 1: much is too heavy a term for this, but like
Speaker 1: there are always guys who are difficult, yeah, or just
Speaker 1: like require high maintenance. Sure, right, that's that's the whole
Speaker 1: I mean again, to me, that's why you employ a manager.
Speaker 3: Yes, And like I think generally he like Levelo and
Speaker 3: he have gotten along pretty well.
Speaker 1: I think Tory Lavello is generally considered I consider him
Speaker 1: a very good manager.
Speaker 3: Like obviously this stuff has gotten out, but has not
Speaker 3: seemed to affect his play on the field or other
Speaker 3: stuff like the Diamondbacks play on the field at large. Right, No,
Speaker 3: this isn't. I don't think this has become like a
Speaker 3: Lindor Soto level thing. And maybe that's just the market
Speaker 3: he plays it. Yeah, that could certainly be part of it,
Speaker 3: but you know, it's he's been a very good player
Speaker 3: for them for a long time at this point.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I also again, like if he needs to take
Speaker 1: a game off a week to do obviously, if it's
Speaker 1: one oh five, that's one thing, but last year it
Speaker 1: was what ops plus something like that.
Speaker 3: Jordan Lawler is back and healthy now temporarily make that
Speaker 3: So yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we should trade him to the Twins just for
Speaker 2: like keeping them out in one place.
Speaker 1: Now, you gotta trade. It's got to be Drew Jones,
Speaker 1: it's got to be an outfielder. It's uh no. So
Speaker 1: so we'll see, you know, we'll see. We'll wait for
Speaker 1: Nick Paccoro's article. The last thing here, The Phillies have
Speaker 1: won six in a row. By the way, they're eight
Speaker 1: and two in their last ten, too clear of San
Speaker 1: Diego now twelve games.
Speaker 3: Over front, they've gotten to al right, Aaron Nola starts
Speaker 3: that they continue to get those day will be fine.
Speaker 1: He's been okay for like, yeah, more than just the
Speaker 1: two starts, and Alec Baum has had He's hit close
Speaker 1: to five hundred over the last couple two weeks. It's
Speaker 1: basement if you're gonna get, If you're gonna get Aaron
Speaker 1: Nola starts that are pretty good, and Alex Bowm is
Speaker 1: gonna hit, it's gonna help the rest of the team
Speaker 1: work out pretty well.
Speaker 3: That does solve a lot of two very large problems.
Speaker 1: At least two very large problems.
Speaker 2: Have you seen how good Bryson's stott has been since?
Speaker 1: Very good?
Speaker 3: First?
Speaker 2: No, he's like a top twenty player in base position
Speaker 2: player base since May. It's really weird and I can't
Speaker 2: explain anything about it.
Speaker 1: Something to look into, certainly, Let's let's go to our
Speaker 1: next subject. I'm sure this won't take long at all.
Speaker 1: Lots of is to make money in this world, but
Speaker 1: I can't recommend insurance fraud. We're going to revisit the
Speaker 1: Dodgers and Mark Walter and Guggenheim, and I'm gonna say
Speaker 1: I need to. I don't I don't want to say
Speaker 1: Ecro I was, I don't know cavalier around around in
Speaker 1: our discussion last time. And what I would tell you
Speaker 1: is the further reporting I think has generated a lot
Speaker 1: of conspiracy that I still am pretty dismissive towards, but
Speaker 1: I would say has also revealed some things that I
Speaker 1: think are legitimately more concerning. Is that that fair? I
Speaker 1: am taking additional details more seriously.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think we've gone from like a one percent
Speaker 2: chance that in our consideration, we've gone from like a
Speaker 2: one percent chance this materially affects the Dodgers to like
Speaker 2: a twenty per sent chance it materially affects the Dodgers.
Speaker 1: So I'm I'm not that you mean by affects the Dodgers,
Speaker 1: I'm probably more at like five percent. But that's a
Speaker 1: five hundred percent increase, right, Like that's it's a it's
Speaker 1: a big increase. And the only reason I am at
Speaker 1: I am only at five percent is the Dodgers, unto themselves,
Speaker 1: are as far as we know, look, barring further revelations.
Speaker 1: Well you have to say that, right, No, And I do,
Speaker 1: and I do mean the qualification. I'm not just saying
Speaker 1: it as far as we know they are wildly profitable
Speaker 1: and they cover their massive expensives and then some. Right,
Speaker 1: so if that wasn't the case, I would be very
Speaker 1: very concerned about.
Speaker 3: How I mean, there's there's obviously a reason he sold
Speaker 3: the Lakers and is looking to sell his sharing Chelsea
Speaker 3: before him.
Speaker 1: Well, so the Chelsea the Chelsea share. I'm going to
Speaker 1: base this off one Athletic article, and Jeff certainly knows
Speaker 1: more about the European soccer side of stuff than I do.
Speaker 1: But the Athletic article I read made it seem like
Speaker 1: this was a long time coming. Sure because Todd Bully
Speaker 1: who he is, who is a co owner of the Dodgers,
Speaker 1: and he's in other ventures with Mark Walter, Mark Walter
Speaker 1: and Todd Bowley own I don't know twelve percent of
Speaker 1: of Chelsea. Uh, and Bully is like the chairman anymore.
Speaker 3: But he's transitioning.
Speaker 1: He was for four years or something like that, And
Speaker 1: it seems to me, based on this Athletic article, everyone
Speaker 1: fucking hates him, including the majority owners of Chelsea. So
Speaker 1: so it sounds like they were looking to sell their
Speaker 1: shares speaker because of this internal disagreement. Well before this stuff,
Speaker 1: it might be obviously, Oh for sure, I'm not saying
Speaker 1: there's no impact, but it doesn't. He's here's the other
Speaker 1: factors he's not selling. He has Mark Walter has an
Speaker 1: F one team, he has the Sparks, he has uh
Speaker 1: some tennis Cup.
Speaker 2: Thing, he has an entire professional women's hockey league.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think that's right. So he's not
Speaker 1: selling these things. Yet it doesn't mean he won't. So
Speaker 1: I think the Chelsea now, it might just be that
Speaker 1: between the Lakers and the Chelsea Shares, he's going to
Speaker 1: get close enough that he doesn't have to sell those
Speaker 1: things because they're not as they're not going to be
Speaker 1: bringing as much money. Right, absolutely, but it's also not
Speaker 1: like he's selling everything and the the Again, I want
Speaker 1: to go back to the reason I'm not so worried
Speaker 1: about the Dodgers, though I think there needs to be
Speaker 1: some concern. Is they cover themselves so in a world
Speaker 1: where if they if this was a Peter Seidler Padres
Speaker 1: situation where they were outstripping their their market in a
Speaker 1: lot of ways, but he was happy to fund it
Speaker 1: and suddenly was under this kind of investigation or whatever,
Speaker 1: And honestly like his passing brings a lot of it's
Speaker 1: it's a lot of the same consequences. Right the next
Speaker 1: people were like, we got to do stuff different. We're
Speaker 1: not underwriting this. We can't underwrite this the way he did. Right.
Speaker 3: Well, you've also got this. Yes, the Dodgers paid it themselves.
Speaker 3: They're also the most you know, by far, the most
Speaker 3: valuable thing in his portfolio. And we don't know exactly
Speaker 3: how much money he owes. And even if the Dodgers
Speaker 3: make money, like if he needs liquidity immediately.
Speaker 1: Sure, No, so I'm not saying he wouldn't sell them,
Speaker 1: but I don't know that that means the Dodgers can't
Speaker 1: sure operate the same way right now.
Speaker 3: That doesn't mean I want to do it right.
Speaker 1: No, but but so so I had this conversation with
Speaker 1: someone who over texts as well. No, but also John
Speaker 1: Henry did this with the Red Sox and didn't sell
Speaker 1: the team and just decided I'm not doing that anymore.
Speaker 1: It's possible that could Mark Walter could also do that.
Speaker 1: I don't know that a sale or a change in
Speaker 1: change in philosophy that can happen at at at any point,
Speaker 1: but I think what has been proven by the way
Speaker 1: they've operated. Is at least we'll show hey, Otani is
Speaker 1: on the team. Just keep going gonzo and it makes
Speaker 1: you money. So I'm not really sure why you would
Speaker 1: pull back because it's it's working for them.
Speaker 2: I don't know that the Yeah, I don't think it's
Speaker 2: very likely that the change that this creates will be
Speaker 2: the franchise and the Baseball Operations Department operates. It's in
Speaker 2: some noticeably meaningfully different way soon, or in ways that
Speaker 2: we can attribute to this. But I think the likelihood
Speaker 2: is increasing that Mark Walter is not the control person anymore,
Speaker 2: you know. I think that is something that is even
Speaker 2: if it's temporary or like, you know, step away while
Speaker 2: he whatever deals with the SEC investigation.
Speaker 3: In the urban Meyer, I want to spend more time
Speaker 3: with my family.
Speaker 2: Yeah, something in that realm, you know, disappears for a
Speaker 2: little bit.
Speaker 1: I need to spend more time with my accountants.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, a lot more time with my accountants. That
Speaker 2: maybe doesn't materially affect the Dodgers in the on field way,
Speaker 2: but I think it it introduces the possibility that it
Speaker 2: materially affects the Dodgers. You know, if you're not in,
Speaker 2: if you're in with a less confident operator at the top,
Speaker 2: or you're doing as many of the things as they do.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know the answer. Maybe the answer is yes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I guess I would say is I think
Speaker 1: people underrate the extent to which that possibility exists, even
Speaker 1: in the same control person. Yeah, And I would point
Speaker 1: to John Henry again for that reason. Now, I don't
Speaker 1: think it's the same as if it goes to someone else. Right.
Speaker 1: We see this all the time, right, The Lakers are
Speaker 1: an actual example of this, right like the kids did
Speaker 1: not run it the way Jerry ran it, and the
Speaker 1: Steinbrunners are an example of this a lot of time
Speaker 1: when times when children inherit a team, they don't.
Speaker 3: Have the learners. You can look all over the map here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well the illegitly the Cubs as well the Rickets. Right, Like,
Speaker 1: they don't have everything centralized in terms of control of
Speaker 1: the various companies. They get split among the various kids.
Speaker 1: And then those kids their little fiefdoms are not as
Speaker 1: profitable as everything was together, so they operate things differently.
Speaker 1: And because the teams are or can be money, right,
Speaker 1: they can be the source of profit. They run them
Speaker 1: they optimized for profit rather than wins. This could absolutely
Speaker 1: happen if Walter has to sell the team, if he's
Speaker 1: not the control person, right that that is, I think
Speaker 1: that's a higher possibility than if he is. I think
Speaker 1: it's a possibility even if he remains, as John Henry
Speaker 1: showed us, right, that's that. I just think those possibilities
Speaker 1: do exist. It also, I don't. I think there's a
Speaker 1: lot of conspiracy out there, and and I'm not I'm
Speaker 1: not trying to dismiss the conspiracy. I think there's a lot.
Speaker 1: We don't know.
Speaker 3: Are you saying the marshals the Supreme Court has told
Speaker 3: you that Jeff Passon is going to face the death penalty,
Speaker 3: and you've have no pleasure in reporting this, and there's no.
Speaker 1: Pleasure in reporting that. I don't know. I don't know
Speaker 1: specifically if Passen even has has said anything. It's it's
Speaker 1: just that No.
Speaker 3: The current conspiracy theory is that Jeff Passen has known
Speaker 3: about the Dodgers' financial fraud for years and hidden it
Speaker 3: from the public.
Speaker 1: Okay, I yeah, I think the most concerning thing I've
Speaker 1: seen in any of this, if I'm as as a
Speaker 1: Dodgers fan, if I'm a Dodgers fan, is that Walter
Speaker 1: went to Charter Cable and said, we can end our
Speaker 1: deal early for an upfront fee. And it's concerning on
Speaker 1: a number of levels, but the most well, they have
Speaker 1: the best TV deal in in the league. And the
Speaker 1: most direct reason it is concerning as a Dodgers fan
Speaker 1: is Frank McCourt basically lost the team because he went
Speaker 1: to Fox and accepted a well below market TV deal
Speaker 1: because it included upfront money because he had no money. Yes,
Speaker 1: now I don't think these are specifically the same thing.
Speaker 1: I don't think Mark Walter has no money. There's a
Speaker 1: there's a difference between liquidity and money that way, and
Speaker 1: and McCourt had parking lots, but then the real estate,
Speaker 1: the real estate market crashed and he handed them over
Speaker 1: to the league as worthless in lieu of in lieu
Speaker 1: of actually paying the money that they were collateral collateralized.
Speaker 3: For cost market a Dodgers game.
Speaker 1: Now, so then he lost. But then they actually had
Speaker 1: no money, right like once the parking lots were gone
Speaker 1: as collateral and and their value was worthless, like he
Speaker 1: had nothing. I don't that's not the case for Walter
Speaker 1: as far as we know right now.
Speaker 3: Now, the flip side of that is, like Guggenheim Partners
Speaker 3: writ large has far more financial entanglements with various places,
Speaker 3: right sure, Like so that's.
Speaker 1: It's there's also that like Guganheim Partners also doesn't own
Speaker 1: the Dodgers t w G. So like it's very it's
Speaker 1: it's very obnoxious getting getting into all of this stuff.
Speaker 3: And again, we had a long conversation, like a kind
Speaker 3: of like circular conversation on this in the discord, and
Speaker 3: finally I just said, like, are you asking me if
Speaker 3: money isn't real? Because if so, my answer is yes.
Speaker 1: If so.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't want to preclude some of these even some
Speaker 1: of the conspiracy things, because we don't know. We just
Speaker 1: don't have a lot of answers to to a lot
Speaker 1: of this stuff right now. But I would love for
Speaker 1: people to hold their horses a little bit bit. I mean,
Speaker 1: they're not going stuff but no, but it's there's just
Speaker 1: there's a lot to be proven out. Again, I had
Speaker 1: a conversation with someone and it was just a conversation,
Speaker 1: but it was about you know, it's like about this
Speaker 1: impacting the Dodgers, and I think especially in the near term.
Speaker 1: It's just not going to Yeah, you know, we'll see,
Speaker 1: we'll see. I'm not gonna say it won't.
Speaker 3: Ever, he would not be the first major League baseball
Speaker 3: owner to incur a serious federal investigation or security Do
Speaker 3: you have experience in that and come out the other
Speaker 3: side of it, Let's say, yeah, I also see old
Speaker 3: if you ow. If you ow one thousand dollars, you
Speaker 3: have a problem. If you owe a million dollars, the
Speaker 3: bank has a problem. Well, he might owe twenty billion dollars.
Speaker 1: So right. But also the other part of this is
Speaker 1: there are two ways of looking at what he's doing. Sure,
Speaker 1: in response to a sudden twenty let's call it twenty billion,
Speaker 1: because that seems to be the number. We'll see if
Speaker 1: it's more than that, it might be. But let's say
Speaker 1: a twenty billion dollar hole in a balance sheet. The
Speaker 1: way he's responded to that is selling one of his
Speaker 1: other assets for twelve and a half billion dollars.
Speaker 3: He doesn't get all of that, but yes.
Speaker 1: No, but okay, whatever, but he gets he gets a
Speaker 1: lot of it. He does, yeah, and potentially selling another
Speaker 1: one of his assets in Chelsea it's twelve percent, but
Speaker 1: you know, whatever, he's going to get some money out
Speaker 1: of that he's trying to fill and then he's going
Speaker 1: around to other places asking for loans. Right, He's reportedly
Speaker 1: going to Steve Cohen for loans. He's reportedly put his
Speaker 1: own shares in Guggenheim as backing for a loan and
Speaker 1: promised double digit returns. Now, there's two ways of looking
Speaker 1: at that. Yes, one is I know, but that's not
Speaker 1: that's not that's just just hold on.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's two.
Speaker 1: Ways of looking at that. One is I was even
Speaker 1: going to go more recent than than made off, which
Speaker 1: is Sam Bakman freed. Sure, Okay, a lot of he's
Speaker 1: scrambling looked a lot like this, but it was premised
Speaker 1: on their their file like and and again there's some
Speaker 1: similarities in the in the filing being wrong, but they
Speaker 1: were knowingly Sam BigMan, it was a very small people
Speaker 1: and it was the people at the top who knowingly
Speaker 1: were like, yeah, we're just gonna put that in the
Speaker 1: file that no one that says, don't look at this,
Speaker 1: and it's a growing it's a growing hole in our
Speaker 1: balance sheet. I don't know. I'm going to go back
Speaker 1: to what I said last time. I don't know if
Speaker 1: Mark Walter is the person controlling that for these for
Speaker 1: Delaware Life and clear Spring insurance companies, it might have
Speaker 1: been someone else. It also is like they put on
Speaker 1: their official file, they changed the regulatory filings, and then
Speaker 1: they said we were wrong.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: So there's again two ways of looking at it. One
Speaker 1: is scrambling to fix it in the Sam Bankman freed
Speaker 1: where it's all it's all illegal, right, Like, every single
Speaker 1: part of this is basically begging money to perpetuate the
Speaker 1: illegal scheme.
Speaker 3: Are you saying it's something like a crimes dot XL
Speaker 3: S GREG.
Speaker 1: That's not related. That's just not even the same. That's
Speaker 1: just this is what I'm saying. Yeah, I'm saying, don't
Speaker 1: be a conspiracist. Yes, yeah, those aren't. First of all,
Speaker 1: those those in't like two ownership groups ago, right or
Speaker 1: was that under McCourt. I don't even remember. But it's
Speaker 1: it's not remotely the same people, and it's a very
Speaker 1: different crime.
Speaker 2: It is very different crime new conspiracy. Can Mark Walter
Speaker 2: possibly own an insurance company if it's not advertising on amobiita.
Speaker 1: Now we're getting somewhere. But the other way is if
Speaker 1: there's suddenly a twenty billion dollar hole on your balance sheet?
Speaker 1: How else are you going to fill it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean he has a lot of like obviously
Speaker 3: they have a lot of valuable companies outside of Well.
Speaker 1: But this is the point about the Sam Bankman freed
Speaker 1: thing is their entire thing. The only reason it looked
Speaker 1: any good was because they were hiding this hole. Sure,
Speaker 1: that's not the case for all of Guggenheim as far
Speaker 1: as we know right now, and it's not even the
Speaker 1: case for these companies now. It would change the way
Speaker 1: regulators rated their stability, right absolutely, But it's the other
Speaker 1: part of this is again like you have the Dodgers.
Speaker 1: The Dodgers are part of his portfolio and make money
Speaker 1: hand over fist. So it's not that everything in the
Speaker 1: portfolio is fraudulent, right. So again I'm not saying one
Speaker 1: of these ways is more correct or not. I think
Speaker 1: there are two ways of looking at it, and it
Speaker 1: will bear out. We will see which one happens.
Speaker 3: I think the more interesting aspect to me, at least
Speaker 3: in the shorter term, is how this affects CBA stuff. If,
Speaker 3: as has been sort of reported, he might be using
Speaker 3: this to hide or to limit how much revenue sharing
Speaker 3: money he's putting it.
Speaker 1: So my question on that, and it's an honest question,
Speaker 1: is how is there the way so their TV deal
Speaker 1: is different the bankruptcy court started at thirty four rather
Speaker 1: than forty.
Speaker 3: Well, this is more that he's writing loans against the business.
Speaker 3: But you can only count that if it's not loans
Speaker 3: from your own companies.
Speaker 1: Sure well, okay, I understand that part. But there's a
Speaker 1: lot of there's been over the years the way teams
Speaker 1: when they own rsns, Yeah, own the product that goes
Speaker 1: to the RSN. A lot of teams have sheltered a
Speaker 1: lot of money that would again that would otherwise go
Speaker 1: to revenue sharing, and they structure they because they're on
Speaker 1: both sides of those deals, they get to do that.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying the loan aspect isn't a novel iteration
Speaker 1: right like of that and not Additionally.
Speaker 3: All these teams can show a loss on paper if
Speaker 3: they want, right, not just the Dodgers.
Speaker 1: And I think that they do and have over the
Speaker 1: years when they've been on both sides of those arrangements.
Speaker 1: Sure I don't. I don't think in general the content
Speaker 1: of hiding you know, washing some money or hiding some
Speaker 1: money from revenue sharing via the RSN deal is new,
Speaker 1: the loan aspect might be in it. I'm not I
Speaker 1: don't know enough about that, so I don't. Again, I'm
Speaker 1: not trying to preclude some of that stuff. But the
Speaker 1: other part of of I did want to ask this
Speaker 1: because it occurred to me, like, do you think part
Speaker 1: of the reason he was willing to end the Charter
Speaker 1: deal for upfront money is the Dodgers are the hottest
Speaker 1: property in baseball right now and could just they might
Speaker 1: not even get the same deal, but they could just
Speaker 1: get another.
Speaker 3: Really, why wouldn't they Just it's weird, right because like,
Speaker 3: why wouldn't they just do it with Charter again? Like
Speaker 3: that seems to right, or just I could negotiate, like
Speaker 3: you could renegotiate from more front up you could like
Speaker 3: just renegotiate, extend the deal and get more upfront money, right,
Speaker 3: like you can?
Speaker 1: I would think, Yeah, Well, so I wanted to ask, like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't like, I don't think part
Speaker 1: of the calculation, sure, I guess, And also, you know,
Speaker 1: what are maybe they want to get It might be
Speaker 1: that Charters not doing great.
Speaker 3: I don't know, Yeah, that's the other things like how
Speaker 3: much longer is this cable bubble lasting? Right, there's regional
Speaker 3: sports now we've already seen with ballet's pretty much fall apart, right, so.
Speaker 1: Well, and the other the other thing is we know
Speaker 1: MLB wants ultimately to get control of all of these
Speaker 1: at some point so that they can package them more nationally.
Speaker 1: Maybe he said, Charter, do you want out of this
Speaker 1: by let's say twenty twenty eight, when MLB wants every
Speaker 1: single thing available, And suddenly I'm in MLB's good graces.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, which I might need, which I might need, Yeah,
Speaker 3: which I.
Speaker 1: Which I might need for sure. But that's how these things.
Speaker 3: No, I don't work.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I'm not saying you know, I don't.
Speaker 1: I would be surprised if this impacts CBA negotiations much.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: They're already all mad at the Dodgers anyway, So yeah.
Speaker 2: I cannot see how this would change the Dodgers' stance
Speaker 2: enough to change the CBA negotiations if I'm being honest.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I do want to go back to
Speaker 1: the thing, you know, Zach, where you said if it
Speaker 1: was one percent before, maybe it's twenty percent now. I
Speaker 1: do think if the Dodgers, and again, if it's if
Speaker 1: it's the case that the Dodgers are not actually making
Speaker 1: you know, if it's if it's accounting magic and they're
Speaker 1: not making money hand over fist or whatever, I think
Speaker 1: I'd even go beyond twenty percent in level of concern.
Speaker 1: I think that then becomes a huge, huge problem.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I I don't think it's accounting magic. I
Speaker 2: think profitable.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, me too. And and because of that, because
Speaker 1: they're profitable on their own terms, not the largest from
Speaker 1: the you.
Speaker 3: Know, the not using these loans to find like the
Speaker 3: Shoho Tani annuity right.
Speaker 1: Right, well, and again, like I think to go back
Speaker 1: to the Seidler Padres aspect of this, I think the
Speaker 1: Padres could have could be profitable still at that level,
Speaker 1: but it needed runway, it needed burn, you know, churn
Speaker 1: in the short term that he was willing to finance.
Speaker 1: If the Dodgers were in that churn stage and suddenly
Speaker 1: that goes away, then it's a huge problem. If they've
Speaker 1: reached the point where it's more mature and they're just
Speaker 1: you know, the Padres continue to get three million fans
Speaker 1: a year through through their Turnstiles. You know, then it's
Speaker 1: it's a different situation of the ability to continue to propagate,
Speaker 1: you know, as it goes forward. So I went very
Speaker 1: long on that first two segments. I apologize, We're going
Speaker 1: to take a break, and we'll come back with the resolution.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to episode five hundred and seventy three of
Speaker 1: five and dive. We're on segment three. Paul is dead.
Speaker 1: I don't know who which, which one of you would
Speaker 1: like to answer the question of what the hell is
Speaker 1: going on with Paul Skins.
Speaker 3: So I am in a weird spot with this because
Speaker 3: obviously I had to care a lot about Paul Skins
Speaker 3: for eighteen months while he was a prospect, and now
Speaker 3: this requires me to watch more Pittsburgh Pirates games than
Speaker 3: I would otherwise intend to. But I mean, I have
Speaker 3: looked into this a little bit, and he's having a
Speaker 3: bad season by his standard, in which you know, obviously
Speaker 3: his fast fall velocity is down. He has almost a
Speaker 3: four ur but like it's like, are you striking out
Speaker 3: eleven for nine? Like the like the peripherals are still
Speaker 3: pretty good. They're not as good as last year, but
Speaker 3: they're still pretty good. And the thing is the the
Speaker 3: sort of gap between what you would call, you know,
Speaker 3: the covetching about his underperformance or the disappointment in his
Speaker 3: season versus like what seems to be coming out from
Speaker 3: Pittsburgh is like way more virulent than I would for
Speaker 3: a guy that just won the say Young last year.
Speaker 1: Right like.
Speaker 3: That, Like guys have these see like Jacob de Gram
Speaker 3: had a season like this, Like guys have seasons like this,
Speaker 3: even good pictures.
Speaker 2: I think if the Pirates were the same variety of
Speaker 2: bad they were the first two years, we would not
Speaker 2: hear anything about this. It's it's the combination of holy crap,
Speaker 2: they fixed the offense, Yeah, they.
Speaker 4: Kind of did.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess it's a real offense what they used
Speaker 2: to have, and now the pitching is not good and
Speaker 2: it's not just it's not just scenes at all. But
Speaker 2: it magnifies the fact that they had an automatic seven
Speaker 2: innings one run last year and now they have an
Speaker 2: automatic six innings three runs or whatever. Not even that
Speaker 2: his e R is like three, you know whatever.
Speaker 1: It's top ten.
Speaker 2: His FIP is top ten among qualified starters. Like it's
Speaker 2: probably gonna be fine. The velocity is a little down.
Speaker 3: You can look, there are concerns here, but it's also
Speaker 3: probably like uh like his his like top line performance
Speaker 3: over states the.
Speaker 1: Ra is up just just just shy of two full runs, right,
Speaker 1: His FIP is up six tenths of a run exactly right,
Speaker 1: that's the difference. His d r A last year was
Speaker 1: seventy this year is seventy five. It's a number one starter.
Speaker 3: Right, And you can do that and like you can
Speaker 3: spit out again. I don't like some of it. I
Speaker 3: have not looked deeply into it. If there's some sequencing stuff,
Speaker 3: if there's the defense behind him isn't too good, which
Speaker 3: probably isn't like just like sequencing ball in some play
Speaker 3: strand raid, like he's given up more home runs, which
Speaker 3: I certainly could be part of it here. That's a
Speaker 3: quick way to inflate your era.
Speaker 1: I just.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like, I think there's reasons to be concerned. There's
Speaker 3: not a reason to go to the media and be like,
Speaker 3: we think he's fat. Likes Yeah, so it was I
Speaker 3: think it was. John Parrato reported it, But there's been
Speaker 3: like other stuff around that that was the most sort
Speaker 3: of like we think he's out of shape or put
Speaker 3: on too much weight or whatever. But there was other
Speaker 3: stuff sort of hinting at that in the same I
Speaker 3: guess it's more than a news cycle. Now it's been
Speaker 3: a month or two.
Speaker 2: Of this.
Speaker 3: Where he's a big guy, right, like he's always been
Speaker 3: a big dude. I just, yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1: But not like a wide guy.
Speaker 3: I mean, not like a not like a wide guy.
Speaker 3: I guess he's built like I'm middle linebacker. He's broad
Speaker 3: shouldered and all.
Speaker 1: Yes, he's broad shoulder for sure. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess I would generally say what you
Speaker 1: what you're saying in terms of the top line overstates
Speaker 1: kind of the peripheral decline. But there is some peripheral decline.
Speaker 1: There is some fastball anlosity stuff, and like you just
Speaker 1: look at if I just look at his stuff pro chart,
Speaker 1: he's got two pitches he actually uses that are above
Speaker 1: above average on his stuff, bro, and they're both sliders.
Speaker 3: Heavier and athletic.
Speaker 1: Is what the heavier and less athletic. Yeah, okay, you
Speaker 1: know his fastball is below average, his change up is
Speaker 1: below average.
Speaker 3: He's never like super popular.
Speaker 1: Stuff model, never like yeah, well no, it's never like
Speaker 1: the splinker, which was like his his super pitch for
Speaker 1: a bit. It liked some of the other stuff, and
Speaker 1: for it to be only two pitches and only sliders. Again,
Speaker 1: you don't you don't have to agree with this stuff model,
Speaker 1: this stuff model, or any stuff model, but it might
Speaker 1: explain kind of the limited he's Also, he's dropped a
Speaker 1: lot of ground ball rate. He's down to forty ground
Speaker 1: ball rate, so when he gets punished it's extra bases
Speaker 1: rather than right.
Speaker 3: But if he had a three point three or a
Speaker 3: three point four e R, I don't think it would
Speaker 3: be that fate still would.
Speaker 1: It keeps the vall, it keeps getting worse. I mean again,
Speaker 1: the Pirates fans that I that I see are kind
Speaker 1: of like it. It's just like he's not fully right.
Speaker 1: Why is he out there?
Speaker 3: They're still kindly, they're not even really in anymore. But
Speaker 3: like up until the last well weeks, they were.
Speaker 1: Sure, but I think over the last couple of weeks
Speaker 1: it's been kind of what, why are we continuing this
Speaker 1: charade when it's just like, let him take a breather.
Speaker 1: I guess I don't know if you've looked deeply into him, Zach.
Speaker 2: Or not, but like I did like a month or
Speaker 2: two ago, and I mean, the the things you find
Speaker 2: are just I did not go as deep as I
Speaker 2: think Alex Stumpf got like three D motion data, which
Speaker 2: is a great job, but no, I've not seen that.
Speaker 2: But his stuff is just watered down a little bit.
Speaker 2: His fast has never been some amazing shape. And when
Speaker 2: you take a.
Speaker 3: Couple of miles, people get real mad when you say that.
Speaker 2: Yeah you you you. You don't use the splinker as much.
Speaker 2: That played off it very nicely. He just becomes a
Speaker 2: more normal picture, a very good normal picture. But his
Speaker 2: stuff currently looks more like a normal pitcher. And I
Speaker 2: don't know. I think if there is a health reason
Speaker 2: that that's happening, yeah, maybe they should give him some
Speaker 2: time off. If it's like a mechanical thing and he
Speaker 2: just you know, I I think he could work through
Speaker 2: it and unlock the older way of pitching. Fine, like
Speaker 2: guys go through this. It's just that he's starting from
Speaker 2: such a pinnacle that we are monitoring it this way.
Speaker 1: I definitely think that's part of it. I do think
Speaker 1: there was also a sense, especially last year and the
Speaker 1: first part of this year, that like he decided to
Speaker 1: be a different pitcher every game, Like you know, some
Speaker 1: games he would just not throw his change up, he
Speaker 1: would not throw the splinker much, and it would just
Speaker 1: be like I can beat you this way. It was
Speaker 1: like he was twying with things. And then it was
Speaker 1: kind of like, well was he just is he not
Speaker 1: throwing it because it's not working now? And like that's
Speaker 1: a little more panic inducing when you go from the
Speaker 1: confidence of like I'm gonna choose which way I want
Speaker 1: to obliterate you to like, ken, is this working? Like
Speaker 1: and again you're you're right. You look at any of
Speaker 1: the more advanced metrics and it's just like this could
Speaker 1: be a reason. It could also be nothing. Right, Like
Speaker 1: you can look at and say, okay, his Z contact
Speaker 1: went up two percentage points from last year, which is
Speaker 1: not huge, but it's not nothing. It's also only a
Speaker 1: percentage point higher than it was his rookie year, where
Speaker 1: he was obviously fantastic, and that feels more like nothing.
Speaker 1: His zone ring is down two percent from either of
Speaker 1: the last two years, or three percent from his rookie year,
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, you know, maybe he's avoiding the
Speaker 1: zone because there's more Z contact, right, but like, is
Speaker 1: that working? Well? He's getting more chase than he did
Speaker 1: last year. But there's more contact on the chase than
Speaker 1: there was. It's not all whips, right, So it's like
Speaker 1: you can just you can go back and forth. None
Speaker 1: of it is very clear. It's very muddled.
Speaker 2: There's there's no smoking gun because there's no murder. He's
Speaker 2: still fine, you know, like no one's dead. I mean,
Speaker 2: I know the ubseet of this, the segment is he's dead,
Speaker 2: but he's he's not. It's just he's worse. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't want to minimize it because I think Pirates
Speaker 2: fans obviously have a very real reason to be worried
Speaker 2: about this and to to find this to be a
Speaker 2: big deal. I also think if you, if we like
Speaker 2: hit fast forward on life to next month or to
Speaker 2: next May, and you told me, oh, yeah, he has
Speaker 2: the exact same he Ra did the first two years,
Speaker 2: You're like, okay, yeah, that's fine, Okay, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think maybe the way to look at it is
Speaker 1: worth worrying about, even if it's probably.
Speaker 2: Okay right, and it may torpedo, it may have torpedoed
Speaker 2: the Pirates season. That's the perfectly fair to be mad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there's so many reasons to be mad about
Speaker 1: the Pirates season. Uh, all right, let's go on to
Speaker 1: Around the Horn. I had not seen this. Actually, the
Speaker 1: Padres are officially sold. It was voted, okay, so congrats
Speaker 1: to uh was it Feliciano. I'm blanking on on his
Speaker 1: first name, and I will not forget his wife's person.
Speaker 1: I love that they always list them separately.
Speaker 2: Kwanza Jones, fantastic names.
Speaker 1: Phenomenal, Thank you, I mean, congratulations to the to the
Speaker 1: Padres fans out there. I mean, you know, we'll see,
Speaker 1: we'll see what it brings. It'll be interesting to see
Speaker 1: how he funds the team. He also was an owner
Speaker 1: of Chelsea, wasn't he.
Speaker 3: I believe there's so many people that own parts of
Speaker 3: various football clubs at this point.
Speaker 1: That yeah, I don't know if he still is, but
Speaker 1: he was, so, you know, he just you know, the
Speaker 1: NLS could be the NLS. Everyone in the NLS be
Speaker 1: a Chelsea fan. I guess I don't know. Uh, Max
Speaker 1: Freed has a bone bruise in his elbow. Uh. This
Speaker 1: this is related to the previous injury, wasn't it? And
Speaker 1: they were just will.
Speaker 3: Like I did not have any cognizance of Max Freed
Speaker 3: pitching for the Yankees, or how well he was doing
Speaker 3: this year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when he's when he's pitching. Yeah, he's a good pitcher.
Speaker 1: I think. I think there was at least a hint
Speaker 1: of this before, and then he came back and was pitching,
Speaker 1: and people were like, if he pitches with a bone
Speaker 1: bruise in his elbow, isn't that just gonna get aggravated?
Speaker 3: Apparently it has.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, seemingly. I don't know, you got more of this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like he gets this injury when he pitches,
Speaker 2: So there's a bit of a you know there.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I don't know if the strategy is to test
Speaker 2: how long it takes before it becomes the problems so
Speaker 2: that they can see when to like activate him in
Speaker 2: the playoffs and then deal with it later. I don't
Speaker 2: know if if it is going to happen every time
Speaker 2: he pitches, they probably have to do something about that.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it really changes the way I view the
Speaker 2: Yankees if he is not involved.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean Carlos Rodon was back for them.
Speaker 2: I saw, uh yep.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's a complimentary or derogatory situation.
Speaker 1: Generally speaking, it's.
Speaker 2: A little bit of a Mario Warrio situation. See who
Speaker 2: shows up, You don't know what you're gonna.
Speaker 1: Get, you know. Obviously, Cam Schlittler and frankly Ryan Weathers
Speaker 1: have been Schlittler has been phenomenal, Weathers has been good,
Speaker 1: and they're both approaching, you know, the longest seasons they've
Speaker 1: ever had.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is. It is like the Yankees are gonna
Speaker 3: make the playoffs, right, They're probably not going to catch
Speaker 3: the Rais, although it's not impossible, but they're gonna win
Speaker 3: like ninety two games and make the playoffs. And it
Speaker 3: just it feels like they're so like the sport does
Speaker 3: not orbit around them at all, like even in and
Speaker 3: like even in like a meaningful sense, right, Like they're
Speaker 3: just not even if they were having kind of like
Speaker 3: an okay but not great season, they were just.
Speaker 1: Being at least without Aaron Judge. Sure, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of gravity, there is, there's.
Speaker 3: Always Yeah, there's only so much you can make out
Speaker 3: of ten games of George Lombard Junior's DRS.
Speaker 1: I guess yeah, I can't. I can't get into defensive
Speaker 1: sample sizes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know whatever, It just feels like they're just
Speaker 3: like a generically good team now, right, Like they're closer
Speaker 3: to the Padres than they are to the nineties and
Speaker 3: two thousands Yankees.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think that's fair. I do think to
Speaker 1: that's point, like you go, you look at this team
Speaker 1: and a playoff rotation of Schlitzler Cole Weather's and I
Speaker 1: guess Rodan, you take your chance if it's a series
Speaker 1: that's actually that's very good. But to the point, Schlitzler
Speaker 1: will be in his longest season, Weathers has never thrown
Speaker 1: this many in means, I believe in a season he's
Speaker 1: up to one hundred.
Speaker 5: It's a good rotation, started the season late, which maybe
Speaker 5: is a good thing at this point.
Speaker 3: And how many of those has been good?
Speaker 1: By the way, I know Cole has been very good
Speaker 1: and ninety two to nineteen strikeout to walk create shield.
Speaker 3: And how many of you are they going to be
Speaker 3: clear favorites over Sunny Gray, Peyton Totley and Raner Suarez?
Speaker 1: No, probably not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the with with Schlitzler, Freed. You feel good
Speaker 2: about them against the Red Sox, against the Rays, against
Speaker 2: whoever you throw him up against Rich Schlittler and insert
Speaker 2: whoever afterward, I don't feel good.
Speaker 3: Like Ryan Weathers has a little bit of like the
Speaker 3: Hazes WIZARDO where it could just when it goes bad,
Speaker 3: it goes bad.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, Cole is the most convincing and I'm still
Speaker 2: not there.
Speaker 3: And Cole Lake, we know the like the cold tweet, right,
Speaker 3: like the cove He's got pitch six innings giving up
Speaker 3: six runs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but but right I think Weathers is like a
Speaker 1: really great regular I don't know, I shouldn't say great,
Speaker 1: but like a really like a good regular season pitcher
Speaker 1: because like he can he can have those clunkers, but
Speaker 1: like if he's healthy enough to be on the mountain
Speaker 1: pitching and like over the course of a season, it's
Speaker 1: pretty good.
Speaker 2: M if you're gonna if you're gonna try to win
Speaker 2: the World Series, which is theoretically what the Yankees should
Speaker 2: be trying to do. Ryan Weathers should be the starter
Speaker 2: who's not good enough to start in the play.
Speaker 3: Should be in the David Peterson and move into the.
Speaker 2: Bullpender, the Patrick korby Justin Robleski. And he's not going
Speaker 2: to be doing that.
Speaker 1: Not available, No, I mean, well Will Warren will be
Speaker 1: doing that, and that's actually not that bad either. But
Speaker 1: but you would like to have.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't want you don't want them coming in behind.
Speaker 3: Weather's already down three to one with the basis loaded
Speaker 3: either right.
Speaker 1: Well, and to your point about the Red Sox and
Speaker 1: their rotation you mentioned the Rays, zac, I mean they're
Speaker 1: gonna have health. You know, they're gonna have what is
Speaker 1: I forgot whether rasmuson or McClanahan got hurt recently, but
Speaker 1: one of the other ones, right, I mean, they have
Speaker 1: a decent top two as well, so well, they're all
Speaker 1: gonna have issues. But but without Max Freed, you don't
Speaker 1: necessarily favor the Yankees at least in those those pitching matchups.
Speaker 1: I mean, Rasmussen, McClanahan, Peralta for the Rays.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we know what you think of the race.
Speaker 1: No, I'm I'm saying. I'm saying that that's not that's
Speaker 1: a that's a that stands up to what the Yankees
Speaker 1: have without Free. I'm saying that positively for the race.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think it does. It does make a
Speaker 1: big difference. Uh. Lastly, tree Man Sini retires.
Speaker 3: What a story.
Speaker 1: I will lasting memory for me will be John Bernhardt's.
Speaker 3: G Yeah, and he had a he had a very
Speaker 3: nice career. I don't want to like, but yeah, that
Speaker 3: that is. Yeah, it's just a perfect moment in baseball
Speaker 3: Twitter history.
Speaker 1: Basically, Yes, just annihilated by a man who has immigrant.
Speaker 3: Song the opening Immigrants Sonnie on Andrew's head for the
Speaker 3: last three hours and he sure did.
Speaker 1: Which takes us to our game.
Speaker 3: We're doing trendy grid.
Speaker 1: This is Zach. Are you aware of trendy grid?
Speaker 3: I think they needed t You've done.
Speaker 2: Trendy grid grid with Patrick.
Speaker 3: Yes, So I will send you this not this one.
Speaker 3: I picked because I thought it would have a I
Speaker 3: thought it was fairly easy. And what has actually happened
Speaker 3: is there's a lot of good answers, but the good
Speaker 3: answers you pick might not be the right one. But
Speaker 3: I found I only got I thought I had five.
Speaker 3: I only got three when I actually clicked through and looked.
Speaker 1: So so I'm gonna do terribly.
Speaker 3: So yeah, so we're gonna get in the booth. We're
Speaker 3: gonna win the booth. Craig will go first, So you
Speaker 3: can take your headphones on the track or turn down
Speaker 3: or whatever I will. I will send it. I'll send
Speaker 3: it to the g chat.
Speaker 1: Okay, Patrick is getting this chest that's just the first
Speaker 1: one's gonna be thrilled. I'm gonna I'm gonna demand his
Speaker 1: answers later.
Speaker 3: Okay, Detroit and Cincinnati.
Speaker 1: That's a weird combo right off the bat. I'm not.
Speaker 4: I'm not sure. Oh man, who do I immediately go
Speaker 4: Detroit and Cincinnati. That's that's a weird combo.
Speaker 2: Boy, I I.
Speaker 4: I don't think.
Speaker 1: I can't think of any I'm gonna have to pass.
Speaker 1: I can't think of anyone right off the bat, I
Speaker 1: really can't.
Speaker 3: That's Detroit and the New York Mets. Okay, Detroit, Oh,
Speaker 3: Verlander Detroit?
Speaker 1: Sure? Wait? Is it?
Speaker 2: Is it? Sure?
Speaker 3: Which one do you want to pick? They both played
Speaker 3: for both teams?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I know that's what's What's it?
Speaker 4: Just?
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I'm gonna go Verlander. The problem is, I
Speaker 1: think the Mets side probably identifies Sure are more, but
Speaker 1: Detroit more Verlander?
Speaker 3: Anyway, go ahead, Detroit and under a three ra season.
Speaker 1: Oh so okay, I can I repeat. I'm just trying
Speaker 1: to think of who else I might want to Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna pick.
Speaker 3: Forlander, Cincinnati and Toronto.
Speaker 4: Mm hmm, Cincinnati and Toronto.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm figuring out Cincinnati is like a weird spot
Speaker 1: for a dead spot for me.
Speaker 4: I know there's there's someone.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 4: I'm trying to think that did j Bruce end up
Speaker 4: in Toronto?
Speaker 3: That would be a bad I literally tried to remember if.
Speaker 1: It feels like he almost certainly not. Uh?
Speaker 4: And like Adam Done didn't end up in Toronto.
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 4: And then you want to say, like one of.
Speaker 1: Those one of their pictures.
Speaker 4: Oh man, you know what I'm going with?
Speaker 1: Jay Bruce.
Speaker 3: Okay, Toronto and the New York Mets.
Speaker 1: Now, Jay Bruce did end up in the New York Mets.
Speaker 1: I'm pretty short. Yeah, But but Toronto, let's go with
Speaker 1: Carlos Delgado. I think that's a good choice.
Speaker 3: Blue Jay is an under three E R A. I
Speaker 3: think Royality, Red's and Marlins.
Speaker 1: Oh, I mean, can I tell you the first first
Speaker 1: name that came to mind unhealthily? Dane Myers. Sure, I know,
Speaker 1: I know it's true. I know it's true. Reds and Marlins.
Speaker 4: Oh man, Oh no.
Speaker 1: Luis Caristillo never actually pitched for the Marlins. I don't
Speaker 1: think he was traded. I think he was traded. I
Speaker 1: don't know if he actually pitched for them. I'm trying
Speaker 1: to think who else was in that deal, because that
Speaker 1: might have been the more famous uh mm hmm, Frands's
Speaker 1: and Marlin's boy. Oh brother, I don't know Austin Kurns.
Speaker 1: I don't think he actually, I don't think he played
Speaker 1: for the Marlins.
Speaker 3: But I'm going to Marlin, Marlin's and Mets.
Speaker 1: God, I'm sure this is I keep thinking of Rays.
Speaker 1: I'm like, my mind is going to Kasmir and Zambrano
Speaker 1: is wrong Florida wrong, Florida franchise. Ah, jeez, let's say
Speaker 1: Louis Castilla.
Speaker 3: The other Louis Castilla.
Speaker 1: Sorry, yes, the second baseman Louis.
Speaker 3: Yes, Marlin's an under three E r A, that's.
Speaker 1: Andy al Contra.
Speaker 3: Right, true, I don't think.
Speaker 1: I guess I just passed on that.
Speaker 3: I don't have a I didn't think you did. I
Speaker 3: try to keep this moving along.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's fine.
Speaker 2: Am I supposed to be back?
Speaker 3: Yes, you're specially back. You have to beat I got
Speaker 3: to send this year too, but you have to beat three.
Speaker 1: Did I get three or is that just yours?
Speaker 3: Jeffrey, No, you also got three. You had totally different
Speaker 3: three than I do.
Speaker 1: I'll take it. I'll take it.
Speaker 2: It's fine.
Speaker 3: I don't have a way. Well, you're.
Speaker 1: No. I just thought of a good I mean, not
Speaker 1: a winning answer, good answer anyway.
Speaker 3: All right, I should send this to you, but we're
Speaker 3: already kind of like funny, so we'll just go in
Speaker 3: and see how you do it. Okay, did you send
Speaker 3: it to Zach or not?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: I couldn't take his things an on top. Apparently right,
Speaker 3: you got it? All right, you have it in front
Speaker 3: of you for.
Speaker 2: Now. I see it.
Speaker 3: Yes, Detroit and Cincinnati.
Speaker 2: Okay, uh mmm, I feel like there are a lot
Speaker 2: of players and they're all bad. First Baseman, that.
Speaker 1: Does describe the person I thought of belatedly.
Speaker 2: This is gonna be such a bad answer. Ah, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna say I'm not afraid of Simon.
Speaker 1: First of all, I love that answer. I was gonna
Speaker 1: I didn't have an answer Zach, but I think belatedly
Speaker 1: I would have said I think Dimitri Young played for
Speaker 1: the Reds at some point, so I was.
Speaker 3: I will say I was surprised. I'll go over the
Speaker 3: answer to the end. I was surprised at who that
Speaker 3: this was the number one one until, like I remembered
Speaker 3: why he was a number one one Detroit and.
Speaker 2: The Mets, and the Mets, Curtis Granderson.
Speaker 3: Detroit and an under three e RA season, Justin Berlander,
Speaker 3: Blue Jays and Reds.
Speaker 2: You know, I feel like, well, no, he probably did.
Speaker 4: Mm hmm.
Speaker 2: See the person I associate this is not my answer.
Speaker 2: The person I associate most of this is Joey Votto.
Speaker 3: But did he actually play for the Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I slammed my head and then I was like,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, he never actually got into a game.
Speaker 2: He didn't, he didn't play for them. So anyway, Oh god, I.
Speaker 1: Just remembered who did son of a bitch?
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, if you want to let me know, I
Speaker 2: actually got this one.
Speaker 3: I was pretty happy. Let me let me address.
Speaker 1: Do you actually want a hint? It's a I don't
Speaker 1: think it's too heavy of a hint.
Speaker 4: Okay, do you want one?
Speaker 2: Not yet?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Sure, give me a hint.
Speaker 1: Okay, uh. Missing it was a huge error on my part.
Speaker 2: Okay, so made a huge mistake. Well it didn't help
Speaker 2: that much.
Speaker 1: It's a hint, it's not you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, did Scott Roland play? Let's go with Scott Roland.
Speaker 2: I don't remember if he played. He did?
Speaker 1: I think he did. That's a good answer.
Speaker 3: Blue Jays and Mets.
Speaker 2: M Noah cinder Goh he never played with the Blue Jays.
Speaker 2: Hang on, that's a trade answer. Uh uh, this is
Speaker 2: gonna feel stupid once I remember it.
Speaker 3: Oh horribly, Yeah, blue Jay is in Sub three e
Speaker 3: er a season.
Speaker 2: I think who would actually win this answer? People just
Speaker 2: gonna say Maybe people will just say Robbie Ray. Let's
Speaker 2: go with Robbie Ray.
Speaker 3: Marlins and Reds.
Speaker 1: Mmm mm hm.
Speaker 2: Not the most distinguished of franchises here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it occurred to me. The Reds were a real
Speaker 1: source spot for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Reds are the Reds are tough.
Speaker 3: You got this one too. I was pretty happy about it.
Speaker 3: It's the only one I could think of, and.
Speaker 4: It happened to be.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the only guy, the only guy I could
Speaker 3: think of.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, you didn't think of Dan Myers.
Speaker 3: I did not think of Dan Myers.
Speaker 2: No, Craig, the only guy I'm thinking of is Jared
Speaker 2: Coe's art. So that's who we're gonna say.
Speaker 3: Marlins and Metz.
Speaker 2: Umm, Luis Castillo the Second Basement.
Speaker 3: Yes, Marlin's and Sub three era Jose Fernandez. Oh, congratulations, Craig,
Speaker 3: He wins three to one.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so uh I when I saw this was twenty
Speaker 3: six percent for Dodgers and Rights, I was like really,
Speaker 3: and then I was like, of course Tigers and Red
Speaker 3: Sorry uh Nicks, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely definitely feeling dumb. He's just a Philly Yeah.
Speaker 3: Uh So you would think Tigers and match would be
Speaker 3: either Sures or Verlander. I did think that it is neither.
Speaker 3: It is not Granderson either, which was a good answer.
Speaker 1: Was a good answer.
Speaker 3: Javier Bayaz for some reason. Okay, but but also like
Speaker 3: he was only there, like three Yeah, he was.
Speaker 1: Only a half season for a met that is that
Speaker 1: is interesting.
Speaker 3: Tigers and sub three r a is Verlander, h R Blue,
Speaker 3: Jason Red one Blue Jays and reds is and.
Speaker 1: One on that's error five that was.
Speaker 3: Jason mets Is are a Dickey, which I was a little.
Speaker 1: All right, Yeah, so I mean cinderguard, right, cinderguard.
Speaker 3: I figured, yeah, I figured like it would either Rays
Speaker 3: or Delgado, but it was not. It's not either of them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that I'm I'm a little surprised. It's obviously, I said,
Speaker 1: we both said Delgado, Zach. I'm a little surprised.
Speaker 4: It's not Delado.
Speaker 2: He's the best player who played.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, Dicky makes sense.
Speaker 3: It's a big trade. He's coming off the saw Young
Speaker 3: I'm sure blue Jays and sub three ra is right Halliday,
Speaker 3: Marlin's and Red's is Johnnyquato. Yeah, okay, yeah, the only
Speaker 3: guy I could think of they like for both dames,
Speaker 3: I could not.
Speaker 2: I had nothing, Marlon not getting there.
Speaker 3: I think Luis Guestillo is a good answer. Jose Reis
Speaker 3: would have been a good answer. It is Mike Piazza, Sure, yeah, okay, yeah,
Speaker 3: Like I don't like I'm not and it's like not,
Speaker 3: it's twenty three percent, so it's not a low percent.
Speaker 1: That's what. Did he play? Seven games?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I guess like it's a fairly famous
Speaker 3: it's famous.
Speaker 1: Sure yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Marlin sub three e r a is Sandiel Contra.
Speaker 1: Okay, did Fernande? He was sub three? I'm that's must say.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, I'm surprised I didn't. I
Speaker 1: just straight up went to El Contra.
Speaker 2: Yeah it was more recent.
Speaker 1: H I did the the Blue Jays one. I also
Speaker 1: just went to Halliday before realizing like, oh, there's like
Speaker 1: a lot of guys I could pick from here.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was trying to think of Dave Steve for a
Speaker 2: second and I was like, I don't think that's going
Speaker 2: to be the top answer.
Speaker 1: No, but like Clemens would have right, like he I'm assuming. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm for Toronto Henkin probably again. I don't know if that,
Speaker 1: but twenty one season, probably under three. I don't know.
Speaker 1: There's some options there. All right, Well i'll take it.
Speaker 1: I'll take the tie. I am interested. I know Patrick
Speaker 1: has seen I'm looking in the chat. I know he
Speaker 1: has seen the grid, so I'll be interested to see
Speaker 1: what he does. Well, we'll we'll quiz him next time around. Anyway.
Speaker 1: Thank you Zach for co hosting this episode. Thank you
Speaker 1: to our listeners for joining us on another episode of
Speaker 1: five and Dive brought to you by the Baseball Perspectives
Speaker 1: podcast Network. You can get in touch with the show
Speaker 1: at five and Dive at Baseball Perspectives dot com. We
Speaker 1: are wherever you get your podcasts. Search for Baseball Perspectives
Speaker 1: podcast network and we'll be in that feed. Thank you again,
Speaker 1: And if you've been waiting for the pod to be over,
Speaker 1: your time is now
Speaker 3: Actable Way who used to live