Speaker 1: What is up, fellow sickos. I am Dana Valley coming
at you with my certified fantabulous lumberjack of a co host,
mister Grant Hughes, and you'll get tireference if you're watching
on YouTube. We are here to check in and provide grades,
of course, because why wouldn't we on some of the biggest,
most interesting new additions from over the off season around
these NBA teams just to see how they're doing. So
we'll give grades relative to we're doing it from the
team perspective. And yeah, I'm sure that's not controversial at all.
Everyone's going to one hundred percent agree with everything we
say as per usual, so it's very exciting. But first
and foremost, mister Hughes, how the heck are you? I'm
doing well.
Speaker 2: I wish I wish I had like I don't know
what lumberjacks say, or like what's a good like? I
don't know if I had like an axe handle or something.
Speaker 1: That would you wouldn't even need to say anything if
you're just holding the acts.
Speaker 3: I have a flannel shirt on if you're just listening.
Speaker 2: Uh, And I had the thought when I put it
on this morning of like, this is kind of a
lumber jack vibe, and it's the very first thing you
said popped up on the video.
Speaker 3: So confirmed.
Speaker 2: Also, our group think continues to be alarming. Uh so,
but I do we do have some differences of opinion
on these.
Speaker 3: Grades we're going to talk about. So that's positive.
Speaker 1: How are you doing I actual spectacular. I'm upset that
I'm not wearing a flannel shirt now, so we could
at least match and be Lumberjacks, or at least having
like don't they wear that what you call those beanies.
Speaker 3: Beards would probably be good. Suspenders would really add to
the look.
Speaker 1: I think if I could grow a beard that would
have like a long beard. Yeah, could you hudle that
out if you wanted to, Like, could you get the
long lumberjack beard if you really let it go.
Speaker 2: I don't think that would be good for anybody. Dan,
I don't know, maybe I disagree.
Speaker 1: Look, if the Warriors win the championship this year, I
feel like you should have to grow out a lumberjack
beard over the offseason.
Speaker 3: That's a deal.
Speaker 1: I'm bookmarket receive it favorite perfect, I'll do it. I'm
not rooting for the Warriors to win the NBA title.
So so there we go. Welcome aboard real quickly, how
did you you? You went more in depth on this
exercise initially than I did. That you were the one
that pitched like this concept. How tough was this for you?
Speaker 2: I mean, well, one, it's tough because we're so early,
and so I think that's one thing to kind of
flag at this before we get going, is like, this
is just how things have gone so far, and a
couple guys, I'll just we'll just we won't get to
him just yet. But like you know, Tobias Harris, I
had a really bad grade for it's still bad, but
then he goes six of nine from three in the
most recent game before recording this, and the numbers suddenly
look like.
Speaker 3: Oh, that's not so horrible.
Speaker 2: So it's it's like anything we're doing at this point
in the season, where like a good game and certainly
like a hot week is just like it completely changes
what you might think. So that's one thing I basically
I kind of went with, like, if you acquired this player,
what should your reasonable expectations have been for what he
would do for you and for your team? And then
how close has the actual has reality lined up with
like what you expected. So that makes it a little
fuzzy because it's because otherwise it'd be like, Okay, this
guy's fifty forty ninety average and twenty points like a
you know, but if that's gonna be an a if
anybody were doing that. But it's kind of a little
bit case by case ish because for me, it's about
expectations in reality and how close they are.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would agree, and then I try to consider, like, well,
what would be if I'm I did it? More so
if I'm down. I tried to figure, okay, well what
is the argument that I'm too low on this guy?
And then I tried to dig into that to see if, like, okay,
do it, and that bumped a couple grades up for
me when I kind of thought, macro, that's what's so
tough about doing this, like fifteen games or whatever it
is in But it's fun and let's let's get to
some grading. Here to it. We begin with the leader
and minutes played for New Editions de Jonte Murray, the
New Orleans Pelicans. No, this is just we could throw
it up there. This is for me, it's a TBD,
and I know you went the same route. Do you
think you could make the case that it should be
worse than that given where the Pelicans are are.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just like, what do you do with
the guy? How how early it was at the end
of the first game he played?
Speaker 1: Right, it was?
Speaker 3: It wasn't like immediate, but uh.
Speaker 1: Six different eras since then. So I honestly don't remember.
Speaker 2: This was back in the Dejonte Murray era. You may
or may not remember it. It was mostly October. Yeah,
so he just hasn't played.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it just has to be a TVD, Like I
don't even know what letter grade I would consider that.
Speaker 1: I think if you were high and we'll get to
Dyson Daniels at some point, if you were just high
and what Dyson Daniels was doing, but he was never
going to have the same spacing aur agency in New Orleans.
I still like the Murray edition overall, so I went
TVD as well. I would just be interested. If some
people are like, oh, that was a mistake. Why did
you give the first round picks when it was like
you're gonna have to blow it up? I'm just I
tend to be higher on de Jontay Murray as a
player though than I think most, which I.
Speaker 2: Think too, you could just say, like whatever you graded
the trade from the Pelican side, it might just be
your grade here, if you know, because it's not like
Murray has done anything to move you up or down
from that prior except and this isn't fair, but like Daniels.
Speaker 3: Has been good for for the Hawks. So it's like, oh,
and the.
Speaker 1: Contact sign people that day and then start them.
Speaker 3: All right, let's move on. That was easy.
Speaker 1: Another really easy one, Isa Hartensteign. I know he's played,
and it was really kind of fun watching him play.
I went TVD, I will say Grant and we both
went TVD. I will say, I think given the check
Holmegrin injury, you could actually great this. Unless you gave
it an A plus to begin with, you could argue
that the signing was even smarter.
Speaker 2: Right, I think so, I mean we could just give
him an A because the one game he's played so
far as we're recording, this was like exactly what you
got fourteen. Yeah, it just was exactly what the thunder needed. Yeah,
that's a good point. It's TBD like this is probably
gonna be an A though it seems like at some
point we just can't get there yet.
Speaker 1: Off one game, would you like your care to guess
who's next?
Speaker 3: Did you do Paul George next?
Speaker 1: I did not suck it by this is. Look, I'm
very this is he's been more divisive than I thought
like given how he's played, he's been more divisive when
you're considering the discourse around the Mavericks, would have been
your thoughts early impressions on how he's been there.
Speaker 2: So I think it's what he's done has like aligned
fairly closely to what I think the expectation should have
been as far as like his role, Like it seemed
like there was no chance, or it seemed like there
was a strong chance he would just have a diminished role,
more of a specialist role, which in my opinion, his
last year with the Warriors suggested, should be where he's
at at this point. Like you just he can't be
a featured player. He needs to be a spacer and
like a dangerous valuable piece, right. Like the theory of
him on the mass makes a lot of sense. He
just hasn't shot it as well as you'd need him to.
It's not like defenses are ignoring him. It's gonna take
like five years of him missing every three for like
how defenses treat him as a spacer to change. But
you know, he's his three point percentage is the lowest
it's ever been, thirty seven percent, which is still good,
but for him, that's not what you're expecting. He's lowest
points per game since his rookie season. Sorry, the three
point percentage, No, yeah, yeah, that's the lowest ever is rookie.
He's he's scoring less than he has since he was
a rookie. Assist rates down, usage right down, all kind
of expected as his role would diminish. The positive note
before we give the grade here, I'll turn over to
you too. Though the MAVs offense is better when he plays.
It's about seven points per hundred better, So like you
could argue that he's still having a positive impact there,
and he tends to be a slow starter. October and
November are always his worst months, like just from a
three point percentage standpoint, and like he's got many, many,
many seasons where after the All Star break he's like
forty seven, forty five percent from three or just some
ridiculous number. So there is still upside here. It's just
harder for me to be confident about it, given his age,
given the general.
Speaker 3: Trend line of his career.
Speaker 2: So I haven't given my grade. Do you have anything
to add to that before we throw the letters up there?
Speaker 1: Yeah, honestly, I think he's been great for them. I
just the volume that he's gonna shoot it at, Like
if okay, thirty seven percent the lowest of his career,
and you'd like to see that come up a little bit,
maybe some of the pull ups will start to fall.
Like he's shooting I think under ten percent on pull
up three pointers. That's a he's taking almost too a
game that's pretty low grant.
Speaker 3: He doesn't have it anymore there.
Speaker 1: That's just my opinion, which is but like, I do
think that the way he's being used is he's not
hijacking possessions for the Dallas Mavericks, and so I look
at the minutes and the stuff that he opens up
for Luka Doncics, and they've kind of decided when Doncics
is healthy, we're just gonna tie these guys together. I
think he's been fantastic, and that the bigger issue is
I don't know that they've done enough to properly insulate
him defensively. I know they've dealt with some injuries to PJ.
Washington and Derek Lively. Playing Klay Thompson next to Daniel
Gafford less would just be my advice, and like Derek
Lively's better anyway, I don't like that he should have
been the starter coming into this season for Dallas, So
I don't know if Dallas is properly utilizing him less.
I do think it's worth a discussion to be like, well,
is he the person were in the playoffs? Like do
the Dallas marriage still need a fifth best player upgrade?
Where do you feel comfortable with closing with Klay Thompson
or Grimes or Marshall or would you prefer any of
those options to be I don't know if you're going
to get better defensively than a Grimes or a Marshal there,
but like someone who is going to handle the ball
a little bit more if you need them to, because
you're not going to trust presumably a healthy PJ. Washington
to do that. But I went a little bit more.
Unless you have anything to add before we reveal our
great a little bit more generous than you, I went
with a B.
Speaker 2: You wus, Yeah, the C minus is just like if
you he has been a little worse I think than
so a see, by the way, for me would be like,
that's exactly what you expected.
Speaker 3: That's average.
Speaker 1: So we should have said that at the Yeah, well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I should have dumped that in there.
Speaker 2: So so he's a little worse than I think the
Mavericks probably had hoped just because of you know, slightly
less accurate.
Speaker 3: You know, it just hasn't been the.
Speaker 2: They're like, oh god, he's gonna get You would have
assumed an efficiency increase, right because like spoon fed from
Luca on those like cross courts, get passes, he's gonna
shoot fifty percent on catch and shoot threes, Like just
not quite what you were probably hoping for from him.
Speaker 3: Again, he's gonna hear later.
Speaker 1: Let let's just's qualify with that. Next up, this one's
gonna be tough. McHale Bridges, he who is worth ninety
two first round picks allegedly, What are your thoughts about Well,
we should have been rotating, but I'm gonna hijack this
and throw to you anyway. What have been your thoughts
about the mcal Bridges experience in New York.
Speaker 2: I mean, this is another one where I hate to
reduce it to this, but this is a key thing.
Like the ball's just not going in the three point.
The stuff about the mechanics, just from the eye test,
I think it's pretty real, or at least it certainly
you know the games I've watched. The shot form does
not look comfortable, does not look smooth. He's shooting, I think,
as I put this together, I don't think this is
two stale thirty just under thirty two percent from deep.
You know, he's playing a ton that's a positive. He
took over the league lead from Kevin Duran. He's up
over thirty eight minutes a game, so he's he's out there,
he's I think, like the most concerning thing to me
is he's shooting under one free throw a game, and
I just like don't know how that happens in the
minutes that he's playing.
Speaker 3: I feel like he should be able to just back into.
Speaker 2: A few and and like I just I'll crib this
from some knick stuff that I've read, Like people aren't
super jazzed about his defensive performance relative to what they
should not be, So that's I.
Speaker 3: Like, where is he helping. I'm in the way.
Speaker 2: You know, he's not a bad NBA player, but he's
not anything close to what like you would have expected
him to be. And that's independent of the cost to
get him. I'm not really factoring in the cost, which
which maybe should be part of it, but it has
to be.
Speaker 1: Well from a tactive So you gave up X to
get even if you weren't thinking an all NBA player,
which normally the package the Knicks would given up would
have been something for an all NBA player. I would
argue the cost has to be part of the grade.
Speaker 2: Then I'm curious why your grades higher than mine because
I think about it.
Speaker 1: So I agree with pretty much all of your concerns.
The three point shooting from above the break, and that's
where it seems like his form might be the weirdest
to me, Uh, nine to forty four and above the
break three is outside of garbage time, that's like twenty percent.
Speaker 2: That's that's slry storry to cut you off, I I
do you have you seen or heard anyone like trying
to like fake news his his shooting form, saying like
oh it's fine, or like it's not different.
Speaker 3: Or or this is overblown because.
Speaker 1: I don't think I've seen that. I think the general
consensus is that, and I'm glad that it was this
because I do feel like sometimes I'm watching a different
player every time it's taking a jumper, so it does
feel like it's kind of shifting in real time. And
I think from what I've seen, like the people who
cover the Knicks or like root for the Knicks a lot,
they seem to acknowledge that. But I would say, he's
been and you just can't, you know, sustain like he's been.
I'll phrase it this way. Steph Curry is the mcale
Bridges of three point because McHale Bridges is just killing
it from mid range. Now he's at one hundred percent.
I think that's helped. I do think there's been some
like his movement away from the ball can be super valuable.
I think what I'm most disappointed in, I mean in
three point shooting. I just I assume will like regress
to his mean of much better than this. The defense
concerns me more than anything because when you've had matchups
where you want you're inclined to like move Ojannoby to
the point of attack at times like that's okay, oj
Anob can do that, but you can't afford to have
Ojannobe do that most of your lineups. That's supposed to
be what Michael Bridges is doing best. He has not
done that. Like it's kind of I chucked some of
his regression in Brooklyn up to Well, he's just shouldering
a massive offensive load. Sure, that's not like he's not
shouldering the same kind of offensive load alongside Kat and
Jalen Brunson that he was there. I mean, og An
Andobi's averaging more drives per game in fewer minutes than him.
Right now, again, mckel bridge is finishing well on his drives.
I do wonder how much of sort of the you know,
you're talking about the low free throw attempt rates, Like
he's only fouled on two and a half percent of
his drives. I think he's more inclined to bail out now.
It feels like on some of those I'm concerned. I
just and relative to the cost to the cost, maybe
I should be lower on this, But I think I look,
and I've seen enough bright moments, and he does open
things up for them offensively within their structure. And again,
like he's providing the value from like he's kind of
offsetting right now what he's done from three by just
being ungodly efficient from from mid range.
Speaker 3: That that is.
Speaker 2: The only time that he looks really good and comfortable
to me, Like especially like the baseline two point pull
ups that you know those like, oh there he is,
there's mckel bridges.
Speaker 1: I think that's a that's an okay shot when you're
a player who's allowed to dribble, so like you're not
like running in there and trying to catch and shoot
these mid rangers.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're not Rip Hamilton.
Speaker 1: When your offense is that open, like someone can like
Josh Hart isn't going to take those shots, Like Josh
Hart's gonna go all the way to the rim. Even
Karl Anthony Town's like that's someone who's gonna go all
the way to the rim. Oh he had an Obi Tuo.
So to have someone aside from Brunton who will take
the pull up too, I'm fine with now. IM fine
with the three point percentage. No, And I thin think
as of right now, which is interesting when you get
into the Knicks, is people already talking about trades and
I've felt like, well, they need to get someone that
can maybe give them more defensive juice, but what does
that actually do for them? And that's the problem with
Michael Bridges is because you're not like you're not benching
McHale Bridges if you acquire just name a player. Like
so if the Knicks do acquire defensive depth, it's more
of a yes, they'll play maybe in the post and
in the postseason as well, but it's you really need
mckal bridges to figure it out because you're closing a
unit I don't think is gonna change, Like could you
see them going with Mitchell Robinson over Josh Hart And
then how's that even that's not gonna help your point
with that defense?
Speaker 2: Really yeah, I feel like he would have Bridges would
have to be way, way worse than this for a
very long time before you think about, Okay, this just
didn't work because of the investment that this is where
this isn't necessarily part of the grade, but like you
give up that much.
Speaker 3: It's it's like.
Speaker 2: An extreme version of the two de Jonte Murray trades
ago where the Hawks are like, well, if we did
move him, like what percentage of the original.
Speaker 3: Could we get back?
Speaker 2: You know, and you're like, you're never getting anything close
to what it costs. I know you're not talking about
trading him specifically, but it is just to say, this
is a situation where you just got to wait and
hope that he plays better, which could totally happen were
a month end of the season. So my grade is
really just a reflection of and by the way, it's
a D plus you got to c minus of just
like he hasn't shot it well and he hasn't defended
in those are the two things that you wanted from him,
and like that probably will change, but at the moment,
he's been not anything close to what you hoped for.
Speaker 1: We have another Nick to grade here, Karnonthy towns uh
I so I go. So when you look at the
value the Nicks gave up.
Speaker 3: Parnel grades one for each side of the floor.
Speaker 1: But here's my issue. You knew what you were getting
defensively when you require Corinthy Town. So I don't know
how much to penalize. Opponents are shooting like eighty percent
against him at the rim, Like remember they started I
think they started twelve of twelve.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it was enough.
Speaker 1: That goes into that but it was one hundred percent
at one point in the year. But like, what was
our concern grant that if you spent put Karl Anthony
Towns in drop coverage a lot of the time, that
it wasn't gonna hold up that well. And what has
happened when he's been in drop coverage a lot of
the time, it has not panned out that well. I
don't like, do you how do you grade that? Because offensively,
and this is the other thing, I do think he's
probably been the Brunton's come up, so like he's been
no worse than because og has been their best all
round player this year, if any just in case anyone
was wondering or didn't know, and then I think Brunton,
you still just have to like the defensive attention they
throw at him. But like, Towns has been marketedly better
than Bridges and has done exactly what you would need
him to do on the offensive end for the most
But the three point volume has come up since like
the early portion of the season, and I know that
there are still kind of performances where he Wax and Waynes.
That's the Karl Anthony Towns experience. We have like a
decade or whatever. It is a proof that that's what's
gonna happen. He has been great for them, and the
passing too, like we've seen it from him in Minnesota
and it will continue to see it in New York
where it's well, if he could just do this all
the time, he is really he is the skeleton key
for their offense and that's what they acquired him to be.
And by the way, yes, you gave up like two
top six rotation players to get him, So I do
think to have value matters. But I the theory and
the other thing that I considered while doing this before
throwing it to you, the theory of Karl Anthony Towns.
I think it's played out like pretty much like ninety
percent of it at least has played out on the
offensive and to say that fewer than twenty games into
the season good and then defensively, I asked myself, would
the Knicks be a lot better with Julius Randall and
Dante DiVincenzo instead Karl Anthony Towns in this rotation when
you also consider Kat's rebounding But like Mitchell Robinson's not
available right.
Speaker 2: Now, No, I think for me, like he's been better
offensively than you probably would have hoped. Right, Like, he's
making half his threes, Like that's just a lot. That's
pretty good. I mean he could do better. He could
make the other half, I guess, like that would be impressive,
and then he would be convert at the same rate
opponents do when he's defending them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but those only worth two points. This would be
worth threat.
Speaker 3: Yes, we're ahead at one point.
Speaker 2: Every possession you're dominating, you're like plus one hundred net,
right if you get a hundred, don't check that math.
Speaker 3: So yeah, Like, and it's not just the three.
Speaker 2: And he's driving more often, drawing, shooting fouls more often
than last year on drive, So it's like and those
two aspects, Like, I think we both agree he could
definitely be featured more as as a three point shooter
like we had. The attempt rate's gone up. It needs
to go higher, I think, and that's totally doable. I
also think the Knicks could get some mileage out of
just like every time you generate a switch with the
Jalen Brunson pick and roll or however else, just dump
it into him. Like I think his post touches should
probably climb too. You could get some Porzingis on the
Celtics type stuff last year where maybe your possession is
not going anywhere, and immediately if you have him guarded
by a small like, suddenly this is a high value
possession because he's either he could just you know, turn
and shoot, he can score, he's a decent pass like,
there's a lot of ways to go, So there's upside.
I think now he's if he shoots forty percent from three,
oh no, you know, like if he regresses to the mean, like,
he's still super valuable. I just think there's more here
to sort of mine for the Knicks.
Speaker 3: On offense.
Speaker 2: This is you can throw him up if you want. Like,
this is an A minus for me, and that's factoring
in the shitty rim defense because like you said, Towns
has given you what you expected and and for me,
it's it's more than that because of the just insane
three point accuracy and his value offensively to this team.
I've got him as an A minus, you've got him
as a B plus. Like he's been he's been awesome.
Speaker 1: I think he's been worse offensively than even I don't
know how much of that to the new team. So
I did only go b Plus the other thing I'm
wondering if this isn't a Karl Anthony Towns thing. I
actually part of it, I do feel like is even
when he's not, like when you're working from the outside
in that you could also attack a mismatch that way,
which I think he can do a better job of,
like busting out his arsenal. I've wondered about the post up.
So they're generating between points and free throws like point
seven fewer than point seventy five points per Connley Town's
post up, and I'm wondering how much of that has
to do with when he's on the court. Generally they
have one close to non shooter. And then if you're
gonna throw the way that mchaal Bridges has been a
shooting from above the break this season, how much value
you might be able to squeeze out of that if
teams don't care about leaving Josh Hard or leaving McHale
Bridges at this point. So I've thought about but like
that is something they could explore. I think I don't
look at that. I don't look at that tray that
Crrently Town specifically as a mistake and I also, I
think my grade might even not be I think your
grade is if we had I know there B plus
a minus, they're close. You might be closer to the
right mindset with it overall than even I. And like,
maybe my opinion of him defensively changed too much last
year because he had Rudy Gobert and they could play
him in more aggressive spots.
Speaker 2: I think for me too, like it's likely that the
defensive numbers will get better just because especially the rim
stuff is so bad, and then that's gonna offset when
he's not shooting fifty plus percent from three, Like that'll
come down the defensive and it just settles in right around.
Speaker 3: You know, B plus a minus For me.
Speaker 1: I am so curious how much they play him and
Mitchell Robinson together if and when Robinson gets healthy, or
if they even when precious Atchuwa comes back. I assume
they'll play him a ton. And if neither of those
guys are coming back, do they trade for a big
and like it's just the theory if it's a better
rim protector, Like let's just say they go get Robert
Williams like they could with Robinson set maybe there's other
moving parts in there, like would that be someone they
would play next to him? Or is this very much
like No, we just want like kind of another five
so that we have a better way to stacker minutes,
because I think what helps with Mitchell Robinson or insert
up like defensive oriented big here that's not a Jericho
Sims or an Ariel huck Porty is just like, well,
we'll be great defensively during our bench units. And the
theory then is we're just gonna when we have our
core guys on the court, hopefully we're good enough offensively,
but we're gonna have just like an offensive rating that's
through the roof.
Speaker 3: I think it could really work well.
Speaker 2: I really hope they do try the dual big lineups
a lot, because you can imagine the benefits on both ends,
Like suddenly Mitchell Robinson's back out there, and all those
offensive rebounds turn into threes and now you have cats.
Speaker 3: The cows as one of the guys open to shoot threes.
Speaker 2: And then on defense, like you know, say what you
want about Towns and even Robinson. H certainly Robinson's a
better interior defender than Towns is, but like just tons
and tons of length is like a really good proxy
for good defense. Just like imagine if OG is your
three and and like you've got two legit bigs out there,
like you're ending every possession after one shot first of all,
and and and you're just gonna be able to be
more disruptive, and guys are not gonna want to come
in the lane just because there's arms everywhere. I do
think there's if they don't try to. I mean, TIB's
will do it, But if they don't try the double bigs, like,
I'll be pretty disappointed.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm just curious how often they'll go to it.
I will say, if you're doing double bigs, that might
eradicate a lot of the value you're getting from chale
Bridges right now from that mid range area, just with
Mitchell Robinson on the court, even if it's not Carl,
even if it's not dual bigs like that could be
an issue for Mitch mcale bridges at this I.
Speaker 2: Would say it's a problem if you're worried about a
certain line of constructions costing you pull up mid range twos.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that's buttering his bread right now. He's
also finishing at the rim well too. But I feel
like we're gonna get into some controversial thoughts on this
next one. Grant Julius Randall slash Dante DiVincenzo. This is
the this is the first joint one when the transactions
were linked, or if it was just like, oh, these
players are when we get to the Warriors, it's we're
not just gonna grade buddy healed. We're gonna grade some
of these in some as much as you people want
individual Malie Beasley grades, we apologize like we'll live together
with Tobias Harris. So who I keep you wanna you
want to handle the walking us through this one? I
keep utalizing this.
Speaker 2: I apologize, no, no, I think this is a tricky one,
partly because we're doing two different players here. So the
Randall breakdown is like, I think he's probably given you
what you wanted or you thought you were gonna get offensively,
as I as I put this together, twenty one six
points per game, getting you almost seven boards, four assists,
shooting splits are fine, fifty thirty eight eighty two. So
like that, you know, all of the same Randall stuff applies,
where like sometimes the ball sticks, you know he's got
a game winner for them.
Speaker 3: So if we're like he actually has you know, gotten
them a win.
Speaker 2: Defensively, he's been bad and and all of the same
Randall stuff is applicable there where it's just like becomes
a statue for a second, is just not attentive enough,
not just not impactful defensively and just wildly like inconsistent
in terms of like effort and engagement and stuff like that.
That's all just Julius Randall, right, Like that's that's what
you what you get. And then for Devincenzo, like obvious,
you know, last year was such a breakthrough as a
three point shooter, He's has not been that guy. He's
done better as a playmaker, I think by necessity because
Mike Conley has been so bad and they just haven't
got a lot of real playmaking options. So his assist
rates up, I mean, and he does tend to show
up in some of their best best lineups if you're
filtering out, like as long as it's over one hundred
possessions so far this season, so like you can make
the case that Devincenzo is still sometimes positively impactful despite.
Speaker 3: The shooting being down.
Speaker 2: I don't know, just with how the Wolves have been
a disappointment overall, and neither of these guys has like
really exceeded expectations. The Vincenzo certainly hasn't. To me, this
is I'll spoil it slightly, This has to be a.
Speaker 3: Below average grade. I think.
Speaker 2: I don't think they've given the Wolves what they hoped for,
unless you're really cynical and say it's well, their books
look a little better like that, but that's not a
factor for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it has to be a below average grade. And
then look, a big part of that is Dante DiVincenzo
has like been all over the place shooting and mostly down.
Like he's had more down shooting nights than up and
I assume that will normalize, so that would be a comfort.
But you kind of mentioned it like the joyous random experience.
I don't. I don't actually think he's been terrible for them.
The game that they lost again, who did they play?
That was watching on Thursday and I just watched them
blow that game.
Speaker 3: Toronto.
Speaker 1: Oh, Toronto, Toronto Raptors are fun.
Speaker 2: Sorry, have you seen the stat that the Wolves are
the only team that hasn't beaten uh? Toronto is like
since like two thousand and four or something like that.
Speaker 1: Hey, look, they deserve to win that game when you
have courts and uniforms like that too. By the way,
past that to you. By the way, we already did
an extensive segment on them. You can go check it out.
It was pre Scotty Barnes returning Oursley, fun as hell
and the perfect kind of bad in so far as
they're still gonna be bad, like they might just be.
It's the East, baby, anything could happen, Barrett.
Speaker 3: Can we just do a whole pot on R J.
Speaker 1: Barrett at some point we might have to and and
we can just work in Grady Dick jokes the entire time.
I'm skeating about Dick all the time. If anyone WANs
to go check us out on Blue Sky. So here's
my because they beat the Timberwolves the Wolves, and I
don't know that this is so much on Julius Randall.
By the way, I cannot like the root. I'm I
defended Rudy Gobert like pretty vicisciously ferociously. Let's go with
that word if I can't pronounce the other one, because
I thought like people were just like, what is it?
I can't stand this dude, anymore, like you're gonna pout
because if you didn't get the ball, like you're seeing
a guy off down like no one wants that. I'm
good for you, Julius Randall. Then Julius Radad tries to
pass it to him twice and he drops the ball
both times, Like come on, man, I do wonder like
how much of this is on the Wolves for just
deciding and like what Colonthi Towns gave you was that
offball gravity of okay, there's going to be space, but
by making this trade, it almost feels like one you
need an Anthey Edwards's three point volume to come up
because these integral even more so to just like Julius
Randall doesn't have the same offball gravity as Colnthi town
So if you want him to get going downhill, someone
needed to take more threes. But like they just I
guess over indexed on not having a backup point guard
because Rob Dillingham isn't ready Mike Conley. I guess they
assumed it wasn't gonna regress. And now you mentioned it
with Dante Devincenzo's passing, okay, great, like that's not what
he should be doing and The other issue is too
is the spacing can be cramped or they're just wild
with their passes in their handles. Only the Jazz have
a higher turnover rate on drives. Julius Randall, Dante Divincenzos
spoil Alert have been among the biggest like culprits there.
Rudy Gobert has stone hands still, and I like, I
don't know I when I individually, I think that Dante
DiVincenzo has not met my expectations. But watching Julius Randall
in some of the moments he's had, like the fact
that he's shooting I think fifty five percent on twos
when Rudy Gobert is on the court, and so was
Anfony Edwards like that's good. So I feel like, like,
would this team be materially different if Towns was on
here instead of them? Or do you think some of
the backup playmaking stuff always would have come back to
snake bite them.
Speaker 3: It's really interesting.
Speaker 2: I as I was doing this, I was thinking like,
maybe we just were wrong about how valuable the benefits
of these two guys would be to the Wolves, because
it does make sense like just in theory that okay,
Devincenzo is gonna really juice that three point volume and
spread the floor, so you're getting a lot of the
cat stuff from him at a different position. It opens
the offense up. He can make plays, and Randall is
the secondary playmaker too. That matters because we can't trust
Calmly for you know, long stretches, and he's gonna regress
because of it, or decline because of age. And like
maybe we were just I'll say, I maybe I was
just like wrong in thinking that you're, oh, yeah, we're
definitely getting all this from these two guys, or maybe
it's just early. That's another factor.
Speaker 3: I just I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think it's a combination of like de Vincenzo just
hasn't been what he was with the Knicks, and and
we're close to it, by the way, You're right, not close.
And the fit for Randall wasn't going to be as simple,
you know, as maybe I thought it was going to be.
Speaker 1: You can mention this though, I'm going to interrupt you
to compliminate you please. When we when this first happened,
it was you said, why not just bring Julius Randall
off the bench. And I do think that's the move now,
especially when you kind of look at how the backup
play making ranks of unfolded, and also just how much
comm and Colmy's dealing with a wrist injury. But he's
also talked about how it's been hard to kind of
find himself within what they're trying to do. And that's
what's going to lead me into my main criticism here.
And it's almost I feel like I want to go
lower and I probably should have. Why did you make
this trade then? When you did? That was dumb? Because
that is the I don't like. The chemistry is clearly
off with this.
Speaker 3: To forget about the vibes are not good. I don't
love the es.
Speaker 1: The vibes aren't good. But like, what did you expect
to happen when you made this without giving yourself any
real cushion? Like if this was just done in the
middle of the off season and you could come into
training camp and like you just had more time, it
would have made a ton more sense. But you made
this trade the last possib minute. So what you could
get what extra out of the Knicks a first round
pick that maybe won't ever convey, So like I recognize
the value of that and the reports that the Knicks
weren't going to include Dante DiVincenzo, So it is tough
to sort of straddle that line. But you know what happens,
don't make the trade then when you did, because the
Knicks came calling at the last minute and threw it in,
And I think that's my biggest criticism of all. And
then it's also like, what what was the point of
the Rob Dillingham trade? Then I understood, like we've seen
him play, but like he's clearly not ready and I'm
not saying he always would have been ready, but if
if this, if this was always going to be the
end result in the regular season with Rob Dillingham, why
did you not more effectively go after an actual backup playmaker?
Then where it's fallen on not just Julius Randall Dante DiVincenzo,
but like Anikila Alexander Walker, and like even the fact
that it's fallen on Dante Devincenzo at all is wild,
Like that's not He's more of a connective guy, not
someone who needs to run your offense. And so my
grade is actually kinder than I'm portraying it. I think
you could go lower what you did. You gave them
a C minus. I gave him a C plus. I
think that people have probably been a little bit too
hard on Randall. Actually, Okay, the body language, the pouting,
the defense of inconsistency, but like that is what Julius
Randall is, and so he hasn't necessarily been below my expectations.
Just the wolves in general, like the turnovers, the bad passes.
I just it's a flawed construction that, by the way,
still maybe could have been an issue of Karl Anthony
Towns was it around. I feel like I probably should
have gone lower at this point. I am I framed
it as I do think they kind of have the
pieces from within to fix this, but now I'm like
starting to doubt that, and so I'd like to see them,
like it's time for Julius Randam will come off the
bench and just deal with the emotional fallout from that
as you may.
Speaker 3: Right, And yeah, and that's like that's just so you
reminded me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was the most logical, Like, Okay, this is
how the trade makes sense to me. It's still it
was true then it's true. Now like how do you
I mean, really like, how's Julius Randall going to take
that if you're concerned about his pouting and stuff and
sporadic effort level, like boy, you might really test that.
Speaker 3: It's a C minus for me, just like Nutshell.
Speaker 2: Randall's been about what you would have hoped for, and
Devincenzo hasn't been.
Speaker 3: So it's just like a blow average thing.
Speaker 2: And I say that acknowledging some of their I guess,
specifically with respect to Devincenzo, some of his underperformance I
think just owes to like he's in a role that
isn't like really what you should be using him for.
Speaker 3: And I don't know how much of that is his fault.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't like that's more on the Wolves than
it seems him. I think I'm probably so generous with
the se plus. I just think he's gonna at least
shoot better at.
Speaker 2: Some think this has to come up. It's gonna come up,
Like these guys are both talented. The Wolves will figure
it out.
Speaker 1: Next up, Grant Demarta Rosen and the sacrament Your Sacramento Kings.
Danny Demartin Rosen to take it.
Speaker 3: Away pretty straightforward. He's doing what you need like he.
Speaker 2: And and and you know, scoring the twenty two to
nine a game, fifty plus from the field, forty percent
from three volumes up a little bit. Before he got hurt,
he had a back injury. I think he's I don't
know if I think he's due back really soon. If
he hasn't, it might be tonight. Actually, as we're recording this,
had thirty six clutch points, which was number four in
the league at the time he went down. And obviously
darreon Fox has a trillion clutch points well him.
Speaker 1: And by the way, him and dianon Fox in terms
of made shots in the clutch one and two respective.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so just like this is.
Speaker 1: They have a losing record in crunch time, by the way, but.
Speaker 3: I think you know the clutch. Crush is officiating the
clutch the right Dyson Daniels filed him, right, We're gonna
keep talking about that. The the the package.
Speaker 2: He is just still Derozen, like still doing exactly what
DeMar Derozen does. Like he's a very smart offensive player.
If if like sort limited's too strong of a word,
but like there's just certain things he does exceptionally well,
certain things he doesn't, and even those ones three point
shooting he's doing well the defensive stuff is it's it's
this is I would say, oh, this this might be
the the of the ones we've covered so far. To me,
this feels like, yeah, that's a that's this is you know, optimistically,
this is on the high side of like the spectrum
of possibilities. But like, this is exactly what DeRozan does,
who he is, how he like, how you should have
anticipated he'd fit good and bad.
Speaker 1: Right, And so, by the way, the numbers for anyone
who is concerned, we we had said, like, okay, this
spacing is kind of a concern, but the Kings just
they have the offensive talent to figure it out. So
Bonus and Fox, when all three of these guys share
the court, they're both shooting over sixty seven percent on twos,
while DeRozan's at fifty six. So it's just like this
is when I push back when people say that NBA
offenses are uniform and boring. I understand there's a lot
of three pointers being taken, but there are there are
literally teams, including the Kings, that are disproving that. And
then I disagree with like people thinking there's too much
homogeny among NBA offenses because the methods by which these
teams might get to the same shots are just so different.
But the Kings are just we have outliers here and
they're making it work. This was He's done everything that
they could have asked from him. I do think I've
been impressed that they've been able to limit shots at
the rim still, but he's been on the court like
that's kind of the base of their defense. I will
also say that he is I don't He's had some
good hands, like he'll go in there and he'll swipe,
and he's blocked some shots. But like, I still am
concerned with him of just like if he's gonna help
away from the corners, you're relying on him to make
those reads. We'll see how that holds up in the playoffs.
I actually think that you put Harrison Barnes and more
of a Harrison Barnes roll in San Antonio, and he's
looked perfectly fine defensively for me, So I do still
have defensive concerns with him. I will say it's very
much a testament to I think Dearon Fox and Key
Murray again have been solid on that end, and I
think at some point Kevin Herder started the season out
really well defensively, which I think helped them. And now
I'm kind of looking at it as the lineup with
Keon Ellis and Keegan Murray and then the big three,
let's call them, that just might be the cheat code
that this team like gives this team contender vibes if
they get there this year. You could argue, well, we'd
like it upgrade over the key On Ellis spot in
those minutes. Okay, fine, but like if that's the point
you're at. So I've been impressed overall. I think with
some of the core lineups, how they've held serve defensively.
I don't necessarily attribute too much of that to DeRozan,
who I think is doing a lot of the stuff
he didn't. They're insulating him, like you don't put him.
He's a low activity defender, and so they figure out
a way to make that work anyway, which is why
I'd like to see someone other than like a Kevin
Herder or a Maligue Monk in that fifth spot long term.
But again, before he was dealing with the back stuff,
I think he's been. He's definitely exceeded expected. I think
even optimistically you had to wonder he's thirty five with
the efficiency still be there and could there be especially
with Daron Fox like shooting the hell out of ball
from the pain, it's what would things get a little clunky?
Speaker 2: And the answer is just no, yeah, I mean just
the puts a finer point on the numbers, Like the
offense is about five per hundred better when he's on,
and the defense is right around four per hundred worse.
Speaker 3: And so it's like, well, all right, that's the DeRozan experience.
Speaker 2: They've figured out how to just sort of like it
really was just the fit questions, like I don't know
that there was any question about like what will DeRozan bring.
Speaker 3: It's just like how much how helpful can that be
on this team? And will the trade offs be worth it?
Speaker 1: And so far?
Speaker 2: You like, he's just so to me that if you
want to throw the grades up, it's an a minus.
Like that's just acknowledging. Yeah, the defense is a concern,
but they've figured out how to work around that and
mostly that's just he's good enough on offense to offset that.
Speaker 1: And they gave up I mean, that's wop. That's the
price is yeah, talk about the price is just up.
I mean shout out to the Bulls for just making
every other team, aside from their self better apparently. So uh,
I will say. The thing that's also good too is
that he's thirty five. And so it was in the
at least the back or middle of my mind of like,
could this be the year there's a regression, and it's well,
you have him in a different type of role now
where he's not your all everything, Like there could just
be possessions or stints where he's like your number three
guy rather than even your number two. That might just
help someone who is already built to age pretty well
apparently age even better. And so I I like this
deal a lot more than I did before. And I
feel like the Kings are kind of on the cusp
of something that's more special than I even would have
predicted before. I still think that they they can't do
I will. I want to make this clear. I'm just
faster if they fucking do nothing at the trade deadline.
This year we tore them and new we tore them
one last year. I will tear them eighty ones this year.
Like this team is good enough, the timeline is now,
and like I really believe that it's not. I do
think like the key on allis lineup like the five
of those guys, that could end up being the cheat code.
But if you want someone who's a little bigger or
just like more of an upgrade over that spot, now
is the time to go out and get them, or
at least I'll say this season is the time to
go out and get them. Who's next, Oh, the Cruso?
What have you thought about his experience? About the Cruiso
experience of okay?
Speaker 3: I would note Dan.
Speaker 2: That we've spent a lot of time the collective way
in the NBA discussion sphere talking about Dyson Daniels deflections
and seals and stuff. Alex Cruzzo is equal per thirty
six deflections to Dyson Daniels, just not playing as much.
So that's where you start with him. He is as
disruptive and as much of a problem defensively as he
has ever been. He just is super physical, super strong,
can guard every position. B Ball Index has a defensive
versatility staties number one in the league, which is just
like the split in percentage of minutes spent guarding all
five positions, his is the most Even so, he's just
kind of it's not just like, oh, he's at the
point of attack and making life really shitty for you know,
opposing point guards or whoever happens we handling the ball.
Speaker 3: He's kind of everywhere.
Speaker 2: Now, some of that's a simplem of Okase's defense that
doesn't play bigs until Hartenstein game.
Speaker 1: I'm just see how many of okay C's non biggs
are in.
Speaker 3: Probably high but so he that's just to say, well, wait,
can I.
Speaker 1: Interject one more time? Please? Do you know who's just
the player he has set so the player he has
defended for the largest portion of time so far this
season is Keldon Johnson. Do you want to know who's
number two?
Speaker 2: It's just hysterical, is it?
Speaker 1: It's zobots and like Zach Collins and DeAndre eight and
are both in the top eight there and Nicole Yokich
just there too. That's just so ridiculous. I'm sorry I
found that out.
Speaker 3: That's it.
Speaker 2: I mean, he is he is who we thought he
was on defense. He is one of, full stop, the
best defensive players in the NBA. He's giving them jack
shit offensively as a scorer, which is who cares The.
Speaker 1: Other night against the uh well, by the way, the thunder.
If they could do the thing where they like care
before crunch time, which they've gotten in this weird habit
where's we're just gonna comes from that the other night
he went off, didn't he Who are they playing?
Speaker 2: That's not a game? I say, I just know the
overall numbers are, like, he can't.
Speaker 1: Make a shot. You probably shouldn't trust our takeaways when
I'm watching that game and can't remember who they were playing.
They can't, Oh, Portland, they had like come back and
like storm pass Portland. He was eight of eleven from
the floor. But please must.
Speaker 2: Bump the numbers so you know he's he's a little
like DeRozan, where it's like, yeah, that's about right, that's
just that's what you thought you were gonna get, and
he's doing exactly that, and all the pluses are there
and all the I mean, really, if anything, if he
could get back to like last year's level of shooting
or I mean, it's always tough with him because the
samples tend to be small. But if he if he
could be like a positive offensive player to any extent,
like he's just this, this would just be an a plus.
As it is, like it's still a very strong grade
for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I went. We both ended up similar. I went
be went B minus the offensive shooting splits are bad.
I think some people might downgrade him to say, like, well,
why is he higher volume or why can't he do
like more of the ball, Like this is not what
he is supposed to do. So I think the three
point shot will fall. But they have one of the
best defenses in NBA history despite having one center available
for the vast majority order no center available for the
vast majority of And I also think it looks even
better because we're about to move on when you consider
what they gave up to get aus Cruzzo, which is
Josh Giddy and Chicago Grant.
Speaker 2: I mean, do you want to take the lead on
this one based on the spreadsheet here? You've got a
slightly stronger feeling than I do.
Speaker 1: It says a lot to me that people are extolling
Josh Giddy for acknowledging how bad he's been on the
defensive end, Like if that's the bright Like yeah, Josh
Gitty's really self aware of how much he sucks on defense,
Like that's that's awesome. So what is the okay he's
been shooting the ball fairly well, but this he still
can't finish at the rim. He's also who's not going
to generate like advantages. And if he's not going all
the way to the rim like he's not, like, teams
aren't going to care if he gets to the floater
or the mid range. Defensively, he's just stiff. He's on athletic.
He can be a good rebounder, but awesome like that,
I don't understand. And now you've run yourself and this
isn't I don't even mean to slam over Josh Giddy specifically.
The fact that he's a knowledge how bad he is
on defense is cool. But if that's what we're latching
onto the silver lining of this, dude gets it.
Speaker 3: He gets an A for self awareness. I guess he
gets an A.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't know.
Speaker 3: If that's so general awareness maybe lower.
Speaker 1: Lifestyle awareness is probably a little bit lower. So you're
the bulls Now, you've now run the danger of here.
Here's the two options. Josh Giddy continues playing like this,
where he's gonna have some numbers and you have to
pay him a bunch in restricted free agency. And now
you've paid Josh Getty a bunch of restricted for agency
to do what or do you just let him walk
or does the end of somewhere else, in which case
you gave up your best asset that at one point
we know you could have gotten multiple first round picks
for and then it's this was just a wash. Give me,
why isn't this an F trade or F edition right now?
Speaker 3: Grant So, not.
Speaker 2: To say my grade is high, but I think they're
the positives are the three point percentage has climbed it
yet again for a fourth straight year. He's at thirty
five point six percent. So we're just trying to mind
some slight positives out of this.
Speaker 3: And honestly, like.
Speaker 2: I didn't go all the way to a failing grade
because this is like, this is who he is, this
is what you like. Again, I'm maybe too anchored to
this idea of like expectation versus reality fact being like
a basis for the grade. Like we expected Josh Giddy
to suck, like especially on defense, because that's what he's
been and that's what's happened. So like, I don't know,
I I guess I'm just my level of surprise is
beyond it is extremely low. And so maybe that's why
I'm not all the way down at a failing grade.
Speaker 3: I we just throw it up if you want I give.
I gave him a D.
Speaker 2: You have an F three minuses. I think you could
add a couple more potentially based on your explanation, which
I can get behind, Like.
Speaker 1: Well, here's you want to where he's Honestly, he's been worse.
Maybe it's because he was so insulated in Okay, see
it points that. Yeah, but he's shooting worse at the
rim than I even would have expected. Like he's gone
is shoots a better percentage at the free throw line.
The Josh getting shoots at the rim, that's a problem.
Speaker 2: The athleticism is just like it's not enough. It just
really is jumping out.
Speaker 1: The touch like from the in between range is not there.
So I he's like he's failed to me even by that,
Like he's he's failed to even meet what I thought
were the baseline expectations for him. Whe it's all right,
we know he's gonna shoot like fifty eight or sixty
percent at the rim, but it's oh no, he's got
like forty nine to fifty. I mean, there's no really
like mid range threat from which to speak and it's oh, okay, cool,
Like his three point clip is fine, but I, I
just it's bad. To his credit, he is driving the
tank properly, like they are both ends of the floor.
And by the way, wouldn't the expectation be that they
could at least be as good or better with him
on offense when he like when when he's in the
game and they have not been like their offense has
just been better with him on the court and.
Speaker 2: The defense falls off a cliff, like that's that's the
other Like he just it's hard for a I guess
he's a guard, although like I don't know, Yeah, we'll
call him a guard. It's hard for a guard to
matt although the guys he has to guard are typically
not guards like he's against.
Speaker 1: In from the NBA podcast, who anyone who listens to
this podcast as we just recorded with I said, like
he's he just wrote a piece. But he's a power
forward and it's time to kind of realize that. But
is he good enough like for what he needs to
do on offense too, Like if you winnow down his
offensive role to more of a power forward role, Like
it's how do you build your team? The vein of
all right, this guy's a power forward, but we also
need him to have the ball on the offensive ends.
Speaker 2: I mean you evoke the Ben Simmons comparison, which should
make nobody comfortable.
Speaker 1: Basically, he should aspire to be Ben Simmons at.
Speaker 2: This just the last thing here, like you you touched
on it. He when the when the best case scenario
potentially is is hoping he leaves for nothing. Man, that's
like that's brutal, like just just as an overall like
asset management thing for the bulls like that.
Speaker 3: I don't and that that's feeling kind of real at
this point?
Speaker 1: Are you? So you think bullstres should just be hoping
that they let him walk, is what you're saying.
Speaker 3: If the alternative, well.
Speaker 2: The part of then you have to bring up the like, well,
who's going to drive the market up in restricted free agency?
Like I don't know that that team is out there,
So maybe you bring him back at like a pay
rate that is like in line with what he's giving you.
I don't know what that number is, but it might
be at the point where it's like you'd rather just
have the space than than have to pay him, because
you know, if you have to pay him like a starter,
not even a positive like a plus starter. That might
be too much, and like that's just not a good
outcome because you can't turn around and trade him for
positive value if you have him at that at like
twenty a year, which I don't think is going to
be enough. You know, based on I don't know preseason expectations,
we should move on. This is a sad story the Clippers.
Speaker 1: Derek Jones Junior, Chris Dunn. They still get a F
minus for adding KPJ for so many reasons, not the
least of which is at least it just doesn't make
an impact. But or Chris Dunn Derek Jones. I think
Chris Dunn's probably been about what I expected. Derek Jorge
W's have been way better than I expected. They're killing
with the minutes where he's either like they're big or
he's playing next to Nicholas Patoom and their Koe Biggs,
however you want to frame it, destroying those minutes. What
is he up to now? Grand from three like forty five?
I know they're both.
Speaker 3: Both in the forties when I look at the other day.
Speaker 1: So like, I don't know if that will hold we
saw Derek Jones Junior pull back last year for starting
the season pretty hot from deep, but they are very
much part of like the primary fabric of a defensive
identity that is actually the it was not a meme
because it was real life. But did you see the
scream shot of where there's just three Clippers guys on
top of the ball like of someone I can't remember
who's laying on the floor. Like that is that's the
Clippers defensive identity and these two have just helped shape
the shit out of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, everything that's gone right with the Clippers
this year starts on defense, and these two guys are
just a huge part of it. Just like the aggressiveness,
the length, the like how disruptive they are, more so
with Jones than Done, Like the leticism that's just.
Speaker 3: Such they they've been. And the shooting is like, I mean.
Speaker 2: That's just found money that they're both certainly done, Like
I think done. Actually, we might need to start believing
in as a shooter because he kind of turned things
around with the Jazz a couple of years ago in
a short stint and has been like good enough to
like he's always been an awesome defender, and it's just like,
is he playable if he's gonna make threes at all?
Like he's playable because he can handle the ball. And
Jones is kind of the same things. He's a real
plus role player if the ball goes in from deep
and we saw that in those best stretches with Dallas.
These guys have been you know, these are relatively small roles.
We're kind of getting into some of the you know,
although we have some big, big fish still out there,
but like, this is just like beyond expectations I think,
or at least on the very very high end for
both of these guys.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't I guess if you what would be
the argument, because I think you can look at it
and say, Okay, if they were gonna go either of
these routes would have been nice to prioritize a better
secondary playmaker than having Kevin Porter Jor on this roster
or relying on what you've like even Chris done to
do some stuff. Yeah, I guess you could demerit them
for that. The only real way I could see it
demerit here is if you think that they and we
killed them for letting Paul George walk but like that's
the route they went. And even if you think that
they could have managed that asset better and maybe they
could have, just in the vacuum of what they did,
I don't know what the reason to not like like
we both went. We didn't give perfect raids, but we
both went to I went A minus, you went P plus.
I think some of the offensive concerns where it's Chris
done specifically, like would you have been better off like
trying to get more of a conventional floor general rather
than having him in KPJ. But I just the Clippers
are at a point where it's like I'm starting to wonder,
well they need to buy at the deadline right, Like
I'm not gonna count on Quiet to be available. Like
they're good enough to like be a threat in the West.
It feels like if they add one more piece.
Speaker 2: Yeah, on the offensive side, because I think in large
part these two guys and the group collectively like that
defense I think is going to be and to do
it with Harden, like to be a good defense with
hard and playing major minutes, that's impressive. They they've and
these guys are right there as key drivers of it.
Speaker 1: They've even like like what is unlocking. I mean, shout
out Jeff van Gundy. A lot of the players have
complimented him already, but it's like they're like, we're just
uncorking Mobamba and like that's gonna work at points and so.
But when they're the thing that's impressed me the most,
when they're playing without any bigs. They're plus fourteen per
one hundred possessions right now and the offense is in
the seventy ninth percentile with a defense that's just absolutely suffocating.
I think a big part of that is they're not
like just the size mismatches you're gonna generate when you
have like you know, Nicholas Patoum and a mere coffee
and yeah, uh, like they're populating your front court alongside
like if Derrick Jones juniors in there. I don't know
if it's start. I don't know if the offensive success
is sustainable there. But if you're gonna get out and
kind of score points in transition and put just a
shit ton of pressure on the rim, like that might
be a rent, certainly for the non Zubots minutes, I
would argue, like, hey, maybe they should go to this
even a little bit more than they have so far,
because I think there's zero big minutes, they're still sub
two fifty non garbage time possessions on the season. Next up,
we have the kind of the other side of this
grand Paul George slash not Cody Martin, So Caleb Martin
shout out. Discord members will understand that reference. This is
tough because you could I think you could go with
a TBD.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and and I didn't, and I'll I
guess maybe I should explain why.
Speaker 3: It's just like.
Speaker 2: Because you could go with a TVD because Paul George
is not played much because he's had two left knee
hyper extensions. This latest one, you know, sounds like it's
going to be a couple of games. But either way,
like he's been limited as have many many sixers. I went,
I view that as part of the Paul George package,
Like this is a guy that what are the average
with the Clippers, like fifty games a year or something
something like that, or there's maybe it's less than that, the.
Speaker 1: Average like more than twenty absences per year with the Clips.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so like that's priced in man like this, So
for me, there's not that much to be determined. Because
it has already been determined that he will miss time,
and so that I think. I'm not willing to say
that the Sixers made a huge mistake by committing to him,
but certainly they should have understood, like with eyes open,
that he is not someone, especially as he gets deeper
into his thirties, that's gonna be there for sixty seventy games.
Speaker 3: That's just not part of it. So I view it.
Speaker 2: I don't want to jump on yours and skip over it,
but it's a C minus for me because it is
just slightly below expectations because when he's been on the floor,
the numbers aren't great, like he's down in the mid
teens scoring average. Defensively, I think he hasn't looked quite
as good. Like you still see him and you're like,
that's Paul George. It's not like he's fallen off to
some crazy degree. And a lot of this is hard
to judge because the Sixers just other than the ten
seconds that all three of those guys were available before
George suffered that second knee injury, we haven't seen him
in the roles they're gonna play. So that's why I
couldn't get like way down the grade scale, it's just
the C minus for me, he hasn't been quite as
good when he's been out there as probably you would
have thought.
Speaker 1: I went going to see because we're looping. We're looping,
not Cody Martin into this because it's you kind of
have to grade the Sixers vision and what was the
what was the other road to travel? What did you
want them to do? And yes, if we have to
come back and revisit this, But because he's played so little,
Paul George, I'm talking about, like it's close if before
you give it a failing grade, you have to give
it a TBD. It'd be different if he had played
in most of the games that like, we just flunked
Josh Giddy and we've been harsher on the Wolves like
those dudes have played and that's why. And so you
are baking absences into the Paul George experience. And I
don't think just based off what in Bead said preseason,
we clearly know that they weren't going to play these
dudes a ton like they were going to rest them.
They probably thought least one of them would be available
at the front end of the schedule. So now they've
diminished their margin for error. But the other thing where
I think this ends up looking worse is if people
are still when we talked about him, we said, like,
that's cool, because now you have three guys who can
kind of generate their own shots from scratch. Paul George
has suddenly been thrust into a role where it's like
he's kind of needs to be the one when Max
he's out, or the one and a half. Overall, we've
talked about how that's not really his game anymore, and
so the fact that he's averaging, granted, as an example,
point sixty seven points per pick and roll possession. That's awful,
but that's also not his game, and that number will
come up because he can still do some of that stuff.
The injuries are unfortunate, but I just you need to
give this more time. And the other thing that I
think makes the Sixers look worse, which is also why
I can't get too upset about how Joel Embiid has
looked for much of the time that he has played.
The Joel Embiid ramp up is part of the experience too,
and so it's like, how much of that, like now
Paul George is dealing with his own ramp up plus
Joelle Embie's ramp up, and then he's getting injured again.
These guys are older Paul George Tieley, so that's going
to take a little bit of time. And just I
Caleb Martin in all seriousness, the three pointers not going
in right now. I do think he's been like he's
been a big deal defensively, even he's gotten torched defensively,
like to be like, Okay, you're gonna defend La Melo ball. Okay,
you're gonna go out there, we need you to go
defend k D. Yeah, Kd's probably gonna score on you.
But he did a pretty good job against Franz Wagner
when they played Orlando. So I still like that signing.
And I also just I understand that we're trying to
measure it to expectations, but part of the expectations would be, well,
what was the alternative for the Sixers this offseason? Yeah,
Now this turns into a thing where rather than the
back two years of the Paul George deal being bad,
the front two years are also bad. Then all of them. Yeah,
that becomes a problem. But I can't I can't get
there yet. Because we see I think some ridiculous where
two of their big three members have been on the
court for like five percent of the sixers minutes or
something stupid this season.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think if you're pessimistic about the Clippers and
we don't, like I don't know that you and I
haven't really talked about this because the bulk of it's
been recent enough that we haven't recorded. But like, if
you're pessimistic about them, I don't think it has very
much to do with Paul George's performance to this point
or even Maxi's injury. I think it's just the embiid
like it stuff that you know, the like man that
he just doesn't look in shape and now you're getting
it's it's so interesting, like the team meeting stuff and
like getting called out for being late to things and
then this flood of well this has been an issue
for his whole career, like the no accountability, he doesn't
treat people well, like he's not like here that first
of all, like whatever you think about like how the
whole like open the floodgates nature of some of this
like off court stuff is where it's like once once
the damn is breached, everybody chimes in that's been following
the team for years, saying like, yeah, this was always
a problem, Like well, okay, that's that's a big deal.
So if you're pessimistic about the Sixers, as I kind
of am, I'm very susceptible to like being swayed by
this off court like vibe stuff. I'm concerned that it
be just is not like doesn't give enough of a
shit about some of the things you need to give
a shit about. And that'll all change if he goes
back to playing like an MVP, probably and I won't
care and no one.
Speaker 3: Else is gonna care.
Speaker 2: But the concerns about like the work ethic this, how
seriously are you taking keeping yourself in shape and like
being a good teammate and being a leader, Like that's
what I would be pessimistic about. Not Paul George hyper
extending his knee and like not looking super great in
the first month of a four year contract.
Speaker 1: Here's my thing to get into more of the general
Sixer stuff. Okay, Joelle, but doesn't look great, but like
we have a track record of he needs a ramp
up after he's been injured, and I don't understand what
I also don't understand is no, is it great they
needed a team meeting? Obviously not. But like Tyre's Maxine,
Joell and beat her homies and so the fact that
Tyre's Maxie called them out is probably a good thing
and an okay thing. The fact that a leak is
the bigger concern. But I don't everyone considers themselves a
super sleuth on social media, and it's so let's go back,
and I've seen this greenshots floating around about the story
from the process era and how the lack of culture
there we're now what two or three front office regimes removed.
Speaker 3: And like him near ten years too, but.
Speaker 1: Still blame if that's au. You don't get to blame
this on the Darryl Mory's in charge right now. If
Joel Bean's been late to shit, that's Darryl Morriy's fault.
It's Joelle Bead's fault for sure. But like you've given,
there's been an all front office, not all. A lot
of front offices do this to an extent, But if
you're going to give superstars a ton of leeway, that's
on you, and if other players aren't reacting well to it,
shouldn't you be self aware as an organization enough to
then go in and try and correct that. Have you
not given Nick Nurse the power to mandate Joel bid
Bee on time to things I don't. I'm not trying
to absolve and being of blame because but I also
don't like this idea that he's the reason he's injured
all the time, or that he doesn't want to play,
or that he doesn't give a shit enough. Do you
honestly think I'm asking you. I know you don't think
this way, but do you honestly think Joel b doesn't
like basketball or doesn't give a shit? Honestly? I don't think.
Speaker 3: I yeah, I know that's rhetorical. I would just say like,
I don't know.
Speaker 2: I think I would view it just comparatively and say, like, I,
we're so talking heady, like screaming head right now, but.
Speaker 3: I really do.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to walk it back, like I or at
least throttle back on it so we don't sound like
that because it's the scourge of our industry.
Speaker 3: But you don't.
Speaker 2: There's no way to do this without sounding like a
talking head. You don't hear this stuff, this type of
stuff about Nicole Jokic or Jason Tatum or Steph Curry
or like you just this it concerns me. It concerns
me because, like, especially as a player gets older and
especially as a player's physical abilities diminish, which I think
embiids have and will continue to do, because it's just
hard for him to stay in shape because of the injuries,
which aren't his fault. Like you get hurt. It sucks
like he started his career hurt. It's just that's, you know,
not because he wants to be hurt or you know,
wants to not play. It just happened, and now the
effects are you can't be as good as you were.
It's harder to be in shape because you can't condition.
As you get older, it's harder to keep weight off.
Like that's just a real thing. Like I am very
concerned with the with the concept of a team centered
around him now for for leadership reasons, for durability reasons,
for for just pointing his career reasons and so like
we're way off the Paul George thing.
Speaker 3: I just we haven't talked about this. It feels like
we should discuss it.
Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about Paul George turning it.
Speaker 2: Into content for his podcast. What would you call that content?
Because I really didn't get a lot of incisive.
Speaker 1: I don't I didn't listen to it. I find he's
actually one of the better player podcasters.
Speaker 3: I agree.
Speaker 1: I just can't a lot of player podcasts for me,
and I don't anyone. Look, there's a ton of options
out there. Listen to you, do you? I just don't
find them. I find a lot of them to be
like watered down in the sense like you're not gonna
get a ton of candor there, candor there, and like
unless you're just there for the nostalgia. If you want
to hear like Jeff Teague tell stories about like when
he was in me. Okay, that's just not my thing,
Like I want to hear more like I'm not necessarily
a fan of Draymond Green's podcast, but I'd like that
he will go in on current events. But it's also
so there's the slant of him complaining about Taylor Jenkins
and missing the point of what Taylor Jenkins was complaining about.
So I just don't find that everyone has their bias.
But when it's just you're so when you have like
a financial allegiance or like financial interest in just I
don't know, but I'm not I'm concerned. But it's more about, okay,
the fragility of this core than do I think there's
gonna and maybe there is some leadership stuff behind the scenes,
but like if Tyrese Maxie feels in bolden enough to
say something, I would view that as encouraging.
Speaker 3: That's good. Yeah, that's good for sure.
Speaker 2: If if embiid can can be told that, like, that's
that's better than the alternative where like not only is
your best player like not doing the best and from
a tone setting example, but also you can't tell him
shit like that's that's the double whammie where you have
a real problem. So yeah, I would concede that it
is a positive that Maxi is able to do that
and embiid can at least say, you know, outwardly be
receptive and accountable. I just it's a problem this deep
into a really great player's career that like this is
this is the stuff we're dealing with, Like he's not
a good leader, Like that's that stands out to me.
Speaker 3: I'm flagging.
Speaker 2: I'm putting a flag in like that is a real
concern for me going forward.
Speaker 1: I think it's fair. I guess I'm more inclined to
say the team obviously would then know this is an issue,
and the fact that they've done nothing to address it.
This is more of like a Sixers issue than a
Joelle beat issue because he's then been enabled.
Speaker 2: And yes, and the health part of it is a factor,
because if he's healthy and playing well like this, this
is we're not discussing this like that's just it's it's
not on.
Speaker 1: The time, which, by the way, I just want to rehampasize.
There's always we saw it in the Olympics where it's
like he was slow to ramped up, look out of shape.
He wasn't great by the end of it, but he
did play better. He's just going to play better. He
plays his way into shape. Like we how many times
have we seen this movie before? Grant like we we
know it's gonna happen. Next up, the big one, Lindy
Water is the third. This was tough would you go with?
Speaker 3: When you put this on here?
Speaker 2: I was like, really, yeah, he gets his own grade.
It's just like it's he's cooled off and hasn't had well.
I forget which game it was, but we were both
just I was over the it was like, this is
hilarious that the Warriors got this guy as a thirteenth man.
He's a he's like a seventh man on a good team.
Speaker 3: He's been great. Give him an a. It's just a
good story.
Speaker 1: I mean he has like a couple of highlight like
blocks and steals and that he just he's thrown some
nifty passes and it's an A. I mean he would honestly,
I think he should be the fourth man on the Warriors.
So the actual Golden State Warriors editions Buddy Heel, Danty
Meltonin who's now going to miss the rest of the
season after ACL surgery, and then Kylee Anderson. I mean,
but we could get into the grades here before I'm
just gonna throw them up. We both gave them an A.
I don't know how you go any other direction. I
will say, if you wanted to go the route of well,
danieultains gonna miss the season, wasn't available. They knew would
be injured. They burned their whole mid level on him.
Two things, One like that's enough of a salary to
where like if you're happy with how his rehabit is
going like you just bring him back and that'll be easy.
Or you now have this expiring contract for a guy
you know, yes he's valuable, but he's not gonna play.
So now that makes it easier to move in a trade,
which I thought was smart at the time to to
have the sort of middle rung salary to move where
it's like, oh, that's a like twelve point nine million,
twelve point eight whatever.
Speaker 2: It is, and it's a trade exception too, essentially right,
like because that that's part of the new CBAS teams
have a mid level sized trade exception. So like, your
options are all over the place with you know who
they can get for him? Tell me, yes, who have
I been begging for?
Speaker 1: That?
Speaker 3: Is this an RW three situation?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, which would be great, And so yeah that
that it sucks, like he's just a guy just has
the story of his career has been health issues and
it's it was a back up until now and now
it's like, oh, we have a actually an acute like
you know, lower extremity injury.
Speaker 3: That's a problem. Not great. He was good.
Speaker 2: He was not the best of their new acquisitions. I
don't think Buddy heals just like made every three.
Speaker 3: Uh. And by the way, like he is, he's not the.
Speaker 2: Answer to like ah, the Warriors need that second option,
you know, the secondary like a plus school or that's
just gonna break defenses like that kind of thing.
Speaker 3: Who they hope Kaming is gonna.
Speaker 2: Be, which doesn't look like he is or who Paul
George might have been or Markingen might have been. But
heals like his sheer ability to run around at breakneck
speed all the time and shoot it every time without fail.
If he's remotely open, like it's almost an offense by itself,
to the point where like the Warriors can put lineups
on the floor which include nobody that threatens a defense
off the dribble. But if healed is out there just
like bending things by running around and hunting shots, like
it just works because everybody else is playing hard and
looking for him, and that makes the defense overreact and
you get back cut layups from everybody. Yet, like he
really is kind Now this works because he is shooting
threes at a higher per one hundred possession rate than
Steph Curry, which is insane. He's at fifteen point five
attempts per hundred steps. At fifteen it's a small difference,
but like nobody is ever around Steph's level in that
in that respect, making forty five percent of them, he's
just been uh Like it's I could never have imagined
that Buddy Held could be like an offense unto himself
type of guy in a bench role, but like that's.
Speaker 3: Really what's happened.
Speaker 2: He he allows for you know units that it's like
Gary Payton the second and Pajemski and Looney and Kyle
Anderson and like that's a dog shit offensive lineup unless
Buddy Heeld is out there like causing trouble everywhere he goes.
So like his fit, his numbers, like all of it
has just been like way beyond the most possibly the
most optimistic expectations you could have had.
Speaker 1: Right, I would argue, so we haven't seen a ton
of slow mo like in this as your big role,
and then I could get muddied where Jonathan coming is
in those minutes. But whenever I've seen it happen and
Buddy Heel's not out there, I'm just well, what are
we doing? Like that is the because the offense I
think actually when last time I checked, when SloMo is
at center their offensive, like the second percent so I
was like Buddy Hill would think.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, no, I just get Buddy out there.
Speaker 1: I've actually had the thought, but it's an a. I mean,
like by the way they have him on like this
crazy team friendly contract, just yeah, how far he fell
from what Indiana accepted to get him, like get rid
of him. We're like, what is going on here? To
what we know? He turned down an extension from Indiana,
then go to Philly and be basically buried on the bench,
not play well at a couple of posies moments that
end up on the Warriors, and just like a deal
that only has two years fully guaranteed. I actually had
the thought like if you're the Warriors, I don't think
you could because you're trying to win now. But like
some of these teams, Denver comes calling with like Zeke
Najy and salary in a twenty thirty one first round
pick to get Buddy Heal.
Speaker 3: There's just like I'm not training him for that, kidding me.
Speaker 1: Not even twenty thirty one first round pick from a team.
But I'm just he's been great for them. So I
and I think what's helped is so obviously the three
point volume and accuracy yes, but it just going from
someone in Kway Thompson to where there's that history and
you feel obligated to play him to someone who like
you've explained to him how your minutes are gonna fluctuate,
like it's gonna like that's been huge for Golden State too.
Speaker 2: He hasn't been bad defensively. He runs like crazy in transition.
It's all this stuff, like I feel like everybody knows
Buddy Heal. The stat you hear every broadcast is like
he's made more threes over the last five years than
anyone including Steph, Like we know that he's just a
great shoot. Though yeah it was stuffs terrible. You can't
even get up fifteen and a half threes fer hundred.
He's been a way more complete player and that it's
just his effort level on defense has been better than
I've ever seen it. It just makes you wonder, like
what happened, Like why wasn't he doing this everywhere he's been.
I think it's part of it's the system. Part of
its you know, the transition chances the Warriors create by
deflecting and getting steels and stuff, which before we move
on the Kyle Anderson part, of it, like that guy.
I mean, having seen Andrea Goudala hands for several years,
like Kyle Anderson's hands are insane, like the way he
like he just rips guards, like with the poke away
in the open court, he gets strips down down underneath.
His ability to like tip rebounds to himself. He's just
if that guy were like a C plus athlete, he
would be just the great, like a superstar.
Speaker 3: But but what he's able to.
Speaker 2: Do with his hands and like his brain, he's looked
incredible and he hasn't made His three point shooting is terrible.
Like other than a couple of games, he's still been
so positively impactful. His two blocks per hundreds best on
the team, not saying a ton, there's not all the
shop blockers there eight assists per one hundred is the
third best on the team. So Anderson has not had
the flash of healed, but like low Key, his impact
defensively and as a playmaker he's been. He's been way
better than I would have expected to.
Speaker 1: These two dudes that like melt when he was healthy, like,
they're part of the reason, not just why Golden State
is deep, but why when we talked about the type
of trade, Golden State would need to solidify their contention.
It's no longer we still don't know what the player
is or who it needs to be develop but it's
no longer oh, it has to be a top fifteen
to twenty guy. Like they are part of the reason
why that that perception has shifted. Yeah, we are onto
ACP noting threes at the moment. I think a lot
of that Orlando spacing can still be wonky. I think
he's been good to great for them defensively, like he
will still fight there getting older. That's something to consider.
I think if you were expecting him to kind of
we were excited when they signed him. Was kind of
the first big move a free agency. We thought it
portended like kind of more aggressive. Are they gonna go
out and get an initiator now they did not. They
have Franz Wagner, who we might have to do some
maya copa's on franz Wagner.
Speaker 2: We might have to talk about how his extension looks
about as good as anybody's.
Speaker 3: But Evan Mobleys.
Speaker 1: Someone already commented on that thing. When I get like
the notifications, this didn't age well. Two weeks later, Okay, awesome,
Like that's we're in the business of takes. We're gonna
be I like when people like, gotcha, you were wrong, awesome.
I've been pretty disappointed with him in offense with him offensively.
Where are you at?
Speaker 2: I'm I'm there, just because like, this is a three
and D shooting guard slash wing that is on a
team that has more than enough great defenders. So if
the three is not falling, which it is not, I've
met twenty three percent on the year, is that you have.
Speaker 1: Your own do you have like your own proprietary data.
Speaker 3: Or actually around it up as twenty two nine, I
was trying to be kind of that that's the.
Speaker 2: One thing that Orlando really needed more so than the defense,
because like, you have Jalen Suggs, you have Jonathan Isaac,
you have Anthony Black, you have like do you have
plenty of that? So if you're not making threes, it's
not it's not just that you're you're not You're technically
you're not delivering like half of what the magic wanted
you for. You're not delivering the thing that they really
really needed of the two. So so I'm pretty low
on this. I was actually even lower until I kind
of decided, like I can't, I can't just give an fuh,
but I just you wouldn't go, wow, I know, well,
I feel that strongly about like Orlando needed shooting and
scoring and he's just not delivering that. So it's partly situational.
But I gave him a D and you got to
see minus.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just the look. The thing that I think can
give you is he is shooting under twenty five percent
on wide open threes.
Speaker 3: It'll get better, yeah.
Speaker 1: So but that's just the reason you like, if you
took him off this team, they're still one of the
best defenses in the league. I would he.
Speaker 2: Hasn't made a difference really, right, like because they can
just substitute the defense that he provides from.
Speaker 1: Other Jalen Subbs feels like he's like it's definitely helped.
It's made everyone else's life easier. But you didn't need
to do that, right And it's not like Jalen Suggs
has parlayed his life being streamlined on the defensive end. Oh,
Like he's made this huge offensive efficiency leap, Like he's
at what is he at from three? He's been pretty
low this season? Is and he's still low lest I misremembering,
So I just been pretty good on drives though, but
neither here nor there. Yeah, I think as of right
now this signing has not panned out, but I think
it'll get better. But the signing grant Russell Westbrook, so
for the minimum, by the way, for.
Speaker 2: The minimum, And I think like this is another situational
one where you can't just focus on well, you'll get
just been out for personal reasons.
Speaker 3: So like it just I think in.
Speaker 2: General his ability to be like a decent innings eater
and a better facilitator really than I would have thought. Uh,
just coming off the last few years of his career,
he has the highest assisted usage rate that he that
he's seen since the Washington days those all those the
House I in days of Russell Westbrook Washington Wizard, which
is still something and second highest of his career. So
it's like assisting usage just the shorthand is like how
much do you have the ball measured against?
Speaker 3: How often are you logging assists?
Speaker 2: And so like if the criticism of Westbrook is that
always pounding the dribble or always just like going into
you know, driving to nowhere and nothing's happening. I think
he's been like more efficient as a creator, I guess
is the way that I would view that stat that
you're getting more facilitation out of him per you know,
minute or per whatever unit of.
Speaker 3: Measurement you want to assign a touch time. So that's
a positive.
Speaker 2: And he's been the good energy all this. Like I'm
not a Westbrook fan, anyone who's listened to us talk
about him. It's just like I think he's been He's
done more harm than good in a lot of his
most recent stops. I think he's been like very helpful
for what Denver needs. And part of that's like their
bench just doesn't have guys that make stuff happen with
the ball or you know, Christian Brown is in the
starting lineup now, he kind of occupied that role, but
he wasn't a facilitator. So I'm actually feeling like pretty
decent about the Westbrook experience, which if you're talking about,
like what am I most surprised by out of all these,
that might be it that I'm feeling okay about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just think if you're gonna get he's still
shooting very poorly around the basket. Yeah, him and Jamal
Murray now have a positive net rating with Yokich off
the floor. We'll see if that holds. I think look
the off the floor stuff too. Players really seem to
value and respect him, including Nicole Yokitch, which is super
important matters. I think it's been not it's been better
than I expected, which is to say it hasn't been detrimental.
I just don't view it as what he's doing. And
he's even helping them with urgency after rebounds, like they're
gonna push the pace more if he's on the court.
I think that there's value in that. I just don't
know that he's actually elevated the play of this team.
But I also like he hasn't It matters that he
hasn't Necessarily the on off splits are gonna say that
he has hurt them, but it's like when you're juxtaposing
those against yo Kic non yokicch minutes, what what are
you gonna do? Yeah, so this has been better than
I expected. But I'm also slightly concerned that, oh, are
they gonna need him to be like a postseason contributor
because defenses are gonna change the way they go. Like
even now you're seeing them like put bigs on him
or so you just get into some weird like sort
of lineup structure problems when you get into the postseason. But
I think for now, just as an innings eater, he's
been he's been really good for them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think for me.
Speaker 2: You you mentioned it, like I I was pretty convinced
that he would have like zero utility on this team,
like I wasn't sold and always going to become a
cutter and all, you know, always going to inject energy
on defense.
Speaker 3: It's like, all right, I've seen enough.
Speaker 2: I don't believe it, and he kind of has so,
so like it's a B minus. And just because I'm
starting from a baseline of like I didn't think he
was gonna help at all, Like I thought he would
be actively detrimental, and he's.
Speaker 3: Actually like he's had some value.
Speaker 1: He who really hasn't had value for them. Dario Sharz.
Speaker 3: That was also in line with expectations.
Speaker 1: We are on too well. I thought we're gonna get
to a better one. This one sucks because I love
Denny avia I don't and I think, look, you're not
gonna see it. So he's actually the passing numbers aren't
up because you need dudes to make shots to get assists.
They're not doing that in Portland. For Danny AVI right now,
he's actually aving more potential assists for thirty six minutes.
I just don't know. The defense has been good, the
rebounding is good. He will help them push the pace.
I still think he's fantasy and he is so versatile
on the defense, and I can't emphasize that enough. Maybe
the three point shooting comes around. I don't understand, even
though I'm optimistic on Danny Avia and I could have
gone lower here, why did you give up what you
did for Denny Avia if this is how you were
gonna use him, or if this is the supporting cast
you were gonna stick with. I want to give Portland
the benefit of the doubt through the trade deadline to say, Okay,
the makeup of their team will look different, but as
of right now, and they have just a bunch of dudes.
There's what do you call him stacked? They're sneakally stacked,
even though they're not one of the best teams. I
don't love the way that they're using Denny AVII on offense.
Speaker 2: I so it's funny in my notes, I also had God,
I love this guy, like right before my shitty grade.
Speaker 3: I still he is.
Speaker 2: A really really extreme example of like he's just a
make or miss player because he does so many things
I really love on both ends. And if the ball
doesn't go in, which it hasn't. I got him at
thirty six percent from the field twenty six from deep, like,
it's just that's that's not an even with all the
other stuff he does, that's just not enough. And if
he were forty six thirty six instead of thirty six
twenty six on his shooting splits and'd be like, yeh
a minus, think that's that's you know, or something like that.
I think it's gonna get better. I still believe in
him as a really good two way threat.
Speaker 3: It just the ball's not going in. Like I'd love
to have more like Trenchent analysis than that.
Speaker 2: But if you can't be shooting under forty percent from
the field and thirty percent from three and get a
good grade.
Speaker 1: I think, honestly, I think the biggest thing, and this
is this is not him to some extent too, because
you'd like him to be more dynamic, Like there's just
when he's in the lane, there's just not the room
to operate that he even had in Washington, Like you're seeing,
I think he's shooting like fifty two percent at the
rim or something ridiculously bed and twenty six percent from
float range, and so like that's it. I when I
look at that, I feel like it's more of an
issue of the environment in which he's playing, not that
the Blazers are a dysfunctional team, but more so that
this is not a team that I mean you see
with Scoot, you see with other guys on the team,
where's you're not going to maximize their efficiency when you
have such poor spacing in general around them.
Speaker 2: I think what doubly concerns me is like this sort
of was the question with him, Like really was the
shooting from last year legit? Or is he going to
go back to being the guy that we always would say,
like how if he could just make more shots?
Speaker 3: Like what a player this is?
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, I mean the Washington percent is closer
to his career average than the thirty eight percent he
shot last year.
Speaker 2: So that's that's the worry, is like we had the
outlier year and now this is just kind of what
he is. He's still young enough, and like just the
fact that the flash was in there for a year.
It's like, okay, it's I'm not giving up by any stretch.
Speaker 3: I just it is.
Speaker 2: It is a It worries me a little extra when
like the flaw that is showing up is the exact
flaw that was kind of the concern for a long time.
So I'm giving him a d I feel terrible again.
We've rehipsided several times. Love we loved any of you.
Speaker 1: And it's also this is as of now, like you
give me the argument for not like I might. It's
give me the argument for being a lot better as
of right now in this moment. And I'm gonna tell
you the argument. If you want to go see and
say this is what you expected, okay, Vine, but that you.
Speaker 3: Don't love him like we do. If this is what
you expected, get out of.
Speaker 1: Here, Dyson Daniels. This is looking pretty good, I will say.
But like we always knew that he could be this
shutdown defender. I think he's done offensively when and they've
used him kind of in those like point guard situations.
We saw that a little bit in New Orleans. The
biggest difference I see from him is that he is
more physical, better at finishing through contact. His takeoff points
aren't his ballouty sometimes, like we always knew he kind
of had that floater, but like he's coming at it
from different angles now and just seems more confident. He's
also not settling for the float, like he will go
and try and finish at the basket more. And I
think that is big time for the Hawks. And I
also think, you know, we just mentioned with the Blazers
the benefit of spacing Grant like Atlanta does have a
better spatial structure than he was working with in a
lot of his New Orleans lineups. Now, do I expect
him to shoot sixty plus percent on floaters forever? No?
And that's why I think the grade right now is
good the theory of what it does for the Hawks
moving forward, where it's oh, like you have him and
Zachary Red like we're dealing with some two perimeter building
blocks now, Jalen Johnson's there still of Trey Young, like
there's a lot of stuff you could do. I still
don't know how he's best deployed on offense, because if
you want to use him in higher volume alongside Trey Young.
The progression of Trey Young doing more away from the ball,
which Quinn Snyder says, has been a focus that will
need to continue exponentially because I don't the alternati would
be Dyson Daniels is going to become a threat as
a jump shooter, and like, even now he looks a
little bit more comfortable getting them off. I haven't seen
anything that makes me think defenses are close to caring.
Speaker 2: No the offense, even though this has been by far
his best offensive season, both in terms of volume and
just how it looks. I do you know that was
the that is what everyone's focused on, Like he's shooting
him he looks more confident, and then it's like, well,
it's also just not making anything. I don't know what
the offense is gonna look like. It's just the way
that he moves around and the way that he tries
to score is like, I just that doesn't seem comfortable.
That's like just not what he's out there to do.
Even though the results have been better, he's averaged just
under fifteen a game. I went really high on this
grade because I I think this guy, if he's not
already is just gonna be in the conversation for years
as like he's just the best perimeter defender in the NBA.
Like it just I you know, the numbers are insane,
the deflections, the steel, like he he's probably he's probably
not gonna do it, but like he really might finish
with like the a top five like total steals season
in NBA history, Like there's some insane numbers, like over
three hundred steels is the is the all time record,
Like that's you just can't get unless you have a
very friendly home scorer.
Speaker 3: You just like can't get there. I don't think in
the modern era.
Speaker 2: But he's leading the league at over three per game,
and the deflections are unbelievable.
Speaker 3: If you watch a game of him.
Speaker 2: They just played the Warriors and he was on Steph Curry,
and I've never seen anyone make it look harder for
Steph to get open and let and do couldn't do
anything with the ball, like in a straight one on
one matchup. It's just like he is so smothering the
reach from behind, like poke away steals, Like I've never
seen anyone get away with doing that as often as
he does. Like it's a real weapon, like you beat
Dyson Daniels and you're and he's it's like a Chuck
Norris thing.
Speaker 3: It's like if you if you can see what's the joke?
Speaker 2: Like, if you can see Chuck Norris, Uh, he can
see you, and if you can't see him, you're seconds
from death. It's like, if you you've gotten around Dyson Daniels,
you're you're still fucked. Like he's just gonna poke it
away like you. You don't ever actually beat him. So
he's an A minus for me.
Speaker 3: You've got the same grade.
Speaker 2: I just like anytime you have someone that might be
the best at a at a thing, which in this
case is perimeter defense, which is super valuable. It's just
it's got to be an a range grade. I that's
acknowledging the offense. I think is a little suspect.
Speaker 1: Right, And I this grade could go down then because
if you have that guy, but he becomes such a
like ultra specific fit, that becomes difficult to build around
him or put him in a larger context. I will say,
and again, he was just used in New Orleans, different
his role was smaller. I think in Atlanta. He's not
fair good in these situations. But like using him as
the screener more like, I really think he's strong and
he's big, so I really feel like that could be
sort of a future ramwhere hey, if you if you
can use him as a primary ball handler or a
screener and he just never has the jump shot, that
ends up being like a super positive player.
Speaker 2: You can use him like Draymond if you want, Like
he's just up there doing handoffs and stuff, and he's
six ' eight and can guard four positions pretty com
like there's he's so good on defense that you just
like you gotta find a way to just like how
whatever his offensive role ultimately looks like you've got to
keep him on the floor.
Speaker 1: And it's the fact that even if you think you
would have preferred the Hawks to prioritize picks, the fact
that they could have I'm not saying he's going to
be a star, but you could look at them and say,
like they might have four building block type players. Daniels
is one of them. You didn't view him in that
vein when you acquired.
Speaker 2: Him, No, no, no, no, yeah, he's it's just like, god,
he's so good defensively.
Speaker 1: We close things with Chris Paul great, how you feel
about him and Dan Antonio.
Speaker 2: I mean real quick, the like, oh, he's gonna get
Wemby seven pick and roll dunks a game that hasn't manifested,
but very interesting article on ESPN. I forget it might
have been Michael Wright. I can't remember who wrote it.
The stat in there just talking about kind of like
the versatility of the This is partly attribute old to Wemby,
but like the versatility with which Paul is getting him
the ball. He's assisted on ninety eight of Wemby's two
undred ninety five points this season. That's the most assisted
by one passer two one score in the league this year.
So like he's delivering, just not exactly in the way
that was expected. The balls going in enough as a
jump shooter, Uh, just under forty percent. It's three point volume,
I'm sorry, five five a game.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's huge.
Speaker 2: No, he's he's been better than I expected, and but
just not in the way that I expected, because the
Spurs aren't spamming pick and rolls that get Wemby dunks.
Speaker 3: But it's still working there.
Speaker 1: Look, Stefan Castle learning under him too is just terrifying.
Speaker 3: Like I'm just coming to get step Castle pot at
some point I'm in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think, how do you not give this
an A like that're just the impact he's having on
those dudes, and then it's he's an expiring salary if
it doesn't work out and he seems to be happy
and they're not like near the top of the West.
I know they're still in it. I love, but I
we probably could have given it today. We gave it
a be. I gave it a B, but the.
Speaker 2: Sprits I got a B plus. I don't know what
you're talking what spreadsheet you're looking at.
Speaker 3: He's been really good.
Speaker 2: I like this is another one of those that like,
is this going to be sustainable? Can't he hold up
at this age for the full season? Maybe not, but
just to this point he's been hugely helpful, and in
particular to Victor Wembiniama, which is the only thing that
matters in terms of like your impact on the Spurs
at this point.
Speaker 1: That is all we have the time to get to.
Apologies to Tobias Harris Malik Beasley. I do feel bad
that we skipped Tias Jones. We did both give him.
I'll spoil that one. We gave Tias Jones the B
yeah for Phoenix, which I feel like you gave him
a B minus. I think that that's been the experience
as expected. I do like very very quickly that they
have not felt obligated to necessarily have him in like
the most important crunch timeline upright all the time, because
that was a big concern.
Speaker 3: That's the only reason I didn't go higher.
Speaker 2: Is like, all this is great, all the seven to
one assist to turn over, which is exactly what you
sign up for with Tyas Jones, Like, but if he's
not going.
Speaker 3: To be a closer necessarily.
Speaker 2: Like I can't go up to like a flat B
er in a yeah for the minimum really solid just
delivering this is this is the Tiat Jones experience. That's
going to be the end of this experience. Grading a
bunch of new faces in new places, all very much
subject to change, but still a good way to kind
of get a handle on on, you know, how things
have gone.
Speaker 3: After we spend the off season talking.
Speaker 2: About who went where and what it's going to look like,
we got some data now and it's nice to just
kind of maybe we'll come back to this. Actually we
should probably do an update at some point. Thanks everybody
for listening, for watching, for checking out my lumberjackshirt.
Speaker 3: If you didn't watch, then too bad for you.
Speaker 1: The fact that you didn't procure an axe by the
close of podcast, I'm just very I gave it. We
get you had ninety minutes to do so, Sarah.
Speaker 2: Would we be concerned if I owned an axe that
I could procure if you.
Speaker 1: Had like a handheld ACX, Yeah, that that would concern
me a little bit.
Speaker 3: I have to check the garage that might be something
on there.
Speaker 2: If you haven't already, rate, review, subscribe, give us a
thumbs up, comment on YouTube, help you out, really love
us back, Tell your friends about the podcast, tell your
enemies about the podcast.
Speaker 3: And shouts to Frank Nolkey and apologies to Jared aut