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<v Speaker 1>We'll often ask for data to support some of the

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<v Speaker 1>arguments that we make because data is our friend, right,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, we can rely on the data. We can

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<v Speaker 1>rely on the statistics to make a valid argument, or

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<v Speaker 1>can we We're not so sure after hearing this story,

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<v Speaker 1>and Aji is here to take us through it.

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<v Speaker 2>Sociology professor Philip Truscott of Southern Baptist University recently published

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<v Speaker 2>an article in the Journal of Sociology and Christianity that

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<v Speaker 2>was titled Great Suicide and the Rise of the Religious Nuns.

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<v Speaker 2>In this study, he failed to use the scientific method

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<v Speaker 2>properly and stwaight up goes from correlation to causation, claiming

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<v Speaker 2>that the file of religious belief is the cause of

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<v Speaker 2>the rise in sexual abuse crimes and suicide weights. This

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<v Speaker 2>story is from The Friendly Atheist by Hermann Meta on

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<v Speaker 2>January fifteenth, twenty twenty five.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, The Friendly Atheists.

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<v Speaker 1>We always love having a clip by Hemmitt Meta on here.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, great show brings up a lot of good

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<v Speaker 1>points and this one is no different. We have a

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<v Speaker 1>professionally trained sociologist and alleged professor who is making claims

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<v Speaker 1>about information that really isn't supported by evidence. Maybe supported,

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<v Speaker 1>but that depends on how you skew the data. And so, Jonathan,

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<v Speaker 1>I wanted to get your take on how this data

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<v Speaker 1>is being used.

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<v Speaker 3>Can we trust it? What's the deal here?

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<v Speaker 4>Oh, you can't trust it at all? Actually I agree.

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<v Speaker 4>Hannett did sum it up nicely, as did the sociologist.

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<v Speaker 4>Ryan Craigan told the author that this was shoddy argument

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<v Speaker 4>and that he could play the exact same game in

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<v Speaker 4>the other direction if he wanted to be as careless

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<v Speaker 4>as trust Scott by linking gun violence to evangelical christian

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<v Speaker 4>The FBI uses the UCI, which is a Universal Crime

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<v Speaker 4>Index for data. And I look data a little bit,

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<v Speaker 4>and even the data he's showing doesn't show what he's

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<v Speaker 4>he's using, doesn't show what he thinks it does. So

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<v Speaker 4>I think this is really a failure of him to

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<v Speaker 4>understand the graphs. And anybody who looks at those graphs

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<v Speaker 4>would say they don't fit the curves that he's saying

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<v Speaker 4>they do. So, you know, like one of them is

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<v Speaker 4>a straight line up and then there's the other ones.

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<v Speaker 4>The line that crosses it. You know, it's like, so

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<v Speaker 4>it crosses in one point. Lots of stats do that,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, it doesn't mean there's anything to do with

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<v Speaker 4>one another. So well, you know, it's just again causation,

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<v Speaker 4>and and you know, correlation, correlations don't even correlate.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to push back a little bit on what

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<v Speaker 1>you said though. Okay, so you said you think he

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<v Speaker 1>fails to understand the data. I mean, is that really

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<v Speaker 1>the case? Do you think he fails to understand You

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<v Speaker 1>think he's being disingenuous? That's number one, And number two,

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<v Speaker 1>you said anybody who looks at the data can see

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<v Speaker 1>that it's incorrect. Well, is that also the case? I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>isn't he placating a demographic of supporters right or of

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<v Speaker 1>maybe right wing people who want to see the data skewed,

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<v Speaker 1>who take comfort in the data being skewed.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, what is it that.

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<v Speaker 1>A little bit more likely that he's being intentional?

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<v Speaker 4>Okay, I'm not sure if he's being intentional or if

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<v Speaker 4>he but in a sense, he probably is because he

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<v Speaker 4>shopped around to find the publication that would publish it,

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<v Speaker 4>and he finally found a Christian publication that would publish it,

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<v Speaker 4>but nobody else would touch it with a ten foot

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<v Speaker 4>poll because it was absolutely false. So you know, and

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<v Speaker 4>that is what's frustrating about this is that the journalistic

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<v Speaker 4>integrity of a professional journal was violated by this thing,

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<v Speaker 4>and that so anything that comes out of that journal again,

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<v Speaker 4>I would not even take a first glance at, not

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<v Speaker 4>even that, but the idea that these most people who

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<v Speaker 4>look at a graph like that, unless they've had statistics

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<v Speaker 4>or they've had math matics mass of some sort, would

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<v Speaker 4>would understand the graph at least at a basic level

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<v Speaker 4>and be able to see that. However, Yeah, if you

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<v Speaker 4>don't have that education, you're not going to see that.

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<v Speaker 4>A matter of fact, you probably wouldn't even looking at

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<v Speaker 4>the graphs. You'd be you know, looking at the words

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<v Speaker 4>and picking out the words that you understood and forgetting

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<v Speaker 4>the rest.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, that's right, And I want to go back to

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<v Speaker 1>my point because I think I think that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you have to go to a Christian journal, and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I hate to paint all Christians with a broad brush,

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<v Speaker 1>but I think largely you fall into that cheap mentality

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<v Speaker 1>when you're willing to believe some of these asenin concepts

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<v Speaker 1>that go along with Christianity, and you're willing if you're

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<v Speaker 1>willing to believe, you know, the person with the book

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<v Speaker 1>you're probably willing to believe the person with the quote

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<v Speaker 1>unquote data, where I think a lot of the people

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<v Speaker 1>that are like minded with this professor probably fall and

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<v Speaker 1>so aj you know, I want to pivot to you.

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<v Speaker 1>You had some remarks about this data to get your

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<v Speaker 1>interpretation of.

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<v Speaker 2>That, I'm going to say that I agree with you.

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<v Speaker 2>I think the data was not necessarily or technically incorrect.

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<v Speaker 2>That you can look at the numbers and see that

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<v Speaker 2>they were there were correct numbers on there all right,

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<v Speaker 2>like how many suicides and how many ways and how

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<v Speaker 2>many religious nones. Those numbers were right, but when you

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<v Speaker 2>put them together is the wrong interpretation, which I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>surprised by, given that there are so many different biblical interpretations, right,

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<v Speaker 2>so they're like kind of a pro at interpreting things

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<v Speaker 2>differently in their unique ways. But if you look at

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<v Speaker 2>these graphics, for example, showing the increase of their non

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<v Speaker 2>religious self reporting, this was actually it's kind of is

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<v Speaker 2>an increase, but the curve is hardly going up. It's

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<v Speaker 2>almost it's almost flat, very very steady going up, all right,

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<v Speaker 2>It's minimal. But this is because the percentage of nons

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<v Speaker 2>religious nuns has moved on average about two percent per

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<v Speaker 2>year since about nineteen forties, and these studies that he

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<v Speaker 2>looked at were up to twenty twenty three, So this

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<v Speaker 2>is around seventy five years or so. Whereas the suicide

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<v Speaker 2>weight has gone from two percent to twenty five percent

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<v Speaker 2>in only ten years. It's a huge increase compared to

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<v Speaker 2>their religious increase, right, So half of that increase happened

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<v Speaker 2>in the years following two hundred and sixteen. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>take from that whatever you will. Twenty sixteen it was

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<v Speaker 2>very specificaliar so the national suicide weight dropped by half

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<v Speaker 2>two years later, and then it went back up in

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty. Like there are specific events that happened worldwide

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<v Speaker 2>or nationwide that can affect those suicide weights. People are

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<v Speaker 2>affected by whatever is going on around them in society.

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<v Speaker 2>So it isn't a surprise that these numbers weren't up

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<v Speaker 2>and down, whereas the religion numbers just kind of steadily

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<v Speaker 2>went up.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and so I think that data can really be skewed.

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<v Speaker 1>And and by the way, the author of this Hemnitt

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<v Speaker 1>Meta did a really good job of kind of breaking

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<v Speaker 1>down some of the things that we that we you know,

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<v Speaker 1>looked over or that the publisher looked over. But data

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<v Speaker 1>can be skewed if you're willing to ignore all sorts

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<v Speaker 1>of other data. Right, So they the author, excuse me,

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<v Speaker 1>not the author of this article, but the sociologist that

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<v Speaker 1>we're talking about, states that you know, as people identify

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<v Speaker 1>as non religious nuns or atheist or or not identifying

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<v Speaker 1>with a religion, sexual assault goes up. But you know,

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<v Speaker 1>at that same time, society has changed so much that

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<v Speaker 1>sexual assault reporting has actually increased. It's not that sexual

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<v Speaker 1>assault has changed, it's that we now live in a society,

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<v Speaker 1>especially on college campuses, that champion people coming forward.

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<v Speaker 5>Right.

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<v Speaker 1>And so another thing that I think we need to

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<v Speaker 1>highlight is that these.

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<v Speaker 3>Reports are coming from college campuses.

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<v Speaker 1>You can't take, as he meta points out, you can't

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<v Speaker 1>take reporting coming from college campuses and represent the entire

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<v Speaker 1>country just based on college campuses.

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<v Speaker 3>That doesn't translate.

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<v Speaker 1>And so you're ignoring a whole sector of many sectors

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<v Speaker 1>of our society that have other reporting rates that are

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<v Speaker 1>not being factored in. So that is something that this

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<v Speaker 1>person when publishing their article. And forgive me, I keep

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<v Speaker 1>forgetting their names. So it's truscott. I keep calling him,

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<v Speaker 1>this person, this sociologist or whatever. Trustcott, you know, deliberately,

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<v Speaker 1>I think ignores things to make his case easier. So

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<v Speaker 1>I did the same thing. So I want to I

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<v Speaker 1>want to tell you what I was able to find out.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, So in.

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<v Speaker 1>Twenty fourteen, five out of one thousand people identified as transgender,

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<v Speaker 1>and in twenty twenty three, nine out of one thousand

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<v Speaker 1>people identified as transgender. Okay, that's an eighty nine percent increase.

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<v Speaker 1>At the same time, in twenty fourteen to twenty twenty three,

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<v Speaker 1>there was a ninety three percent increase of sea level rise.

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<v Speaker 1>So therefore, transgender people are clearly responsible for sea levels rising.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, that's I just proved it.

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<v Speaker 1>And not only that, but with sea levels rising, that

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<v Speaker 1>means that the ice caps are melting, So transgender people

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<v Speaker 1>must be responsible for the ice caps melting. And with

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<v Speaker 1>the ice caps melting, there are more countries in the

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<v Speaker 1>Arctic that are trying to drill and trying to put

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<v Speaker 1>military bases there. That must be the fault of people

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<v Speaker 1>identifying as transgender as well.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, that's ridiculous.

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<v Speaker 1>That's ridiculous, and that's what trust Scott is doing. And

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<v Speaker 1>so yeah, you know, Jonathan, I want to turn back

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<v Speaker 1>to you, is this, how does this affect the right

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<v Speaker 1>wing agenda? That's that's kind of what I want to

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<v Speaker 1>get at here, because I interpret this as being yet

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<v Speaker 1>another way of a right wing agenda coming out and

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<v Speaker 1>demonizing people. Just like we talked about on Monday. Here

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<v Speaker 1>we have another way that this is happening. I wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to get your thoughts on that.

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<v Speaker 4>One of the things about the right is that when

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<v Speaker 4>they do this sort of thing, what they're doing in

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<v Speaker 4>their objective is to demonize and to tear apart people,

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<v Speaker 4>and this is just another way they can do that.

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<v Speaker 4>They can say all these woke people are doing these

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<v Speaker 4>horrible things. They take that summation, and now all they

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<v Speaker 4>have to do is control the narrative. If this gets

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<v Speaker 4>out well a sociologist says that these people are responsible

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<v Speaker 4>for this, or they have a higher rate of it,

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<v Speaker 4>then they can understand that they have to run back

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<v Speaker 4>to the church and fill those empty seats that have

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<v Speaker 4>been getting more and more empty every year, so they

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<v Speaker 4>can get their money, so they can buy a watch

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<v Speaker 4>that they want to buy that's referencing something we did

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<v Speaker 4>on Nonprovins last year, or they can get a new

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<v Speaker 4>Cadillac or their third airplane. You know, they can't do

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<v Speaker 4>that with no butts in the seat, right. So that's

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<v Speaker 4>what they're trying to do is get people to be

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<v Speaker 4>afraid of anybody who isn't Christian or isn't religious, because

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<v Speaker 4>those people are going to be your biggest nightmare if

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<v Speaker 4>they move in next to you. The problem is, of course,

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<v Speaker 4>that's all not true. Matter of fact, the opposite is true.

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<v Speaker 4>If you want to find somebody who's going to rape somebody,

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<v Speaker 4>go to your local church and look at the youth

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<v Speaker 4>pastor or the pastor. There are more Christian pastors in

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<v Speaker 4>jail for that kind of thing than there is any

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<v Speaker 4>other small subset of the population. Taking a population of

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<v Speaker 4>a university studies that the FBI actually admits that there's

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<v Speaker 4>somewhat of a skew because a lot of the sexual

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<v Speaker 4>assault information comes from universities. They're the ones who generally

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<v Speaker 4>are required to report it more so in that case,

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<v Speaker 4>and also the stigma against reporting is still a big

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<v Speaker 4>deal in most people. People who are immigrants, or if

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<v Speaker 4>they happen to be, I don't like calling me illegal

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<v Speaker 4>here without visas. They don't want to have anything to

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<v Speaker 4>do with the police. That's right, So they're not going

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<v Speaker 4>to report problems they have. That's right, and you know

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<v Speaker 4>that is a issue.

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<v Speaker 3>That's right, that's right.

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<v Speaker 1>And and what you bring up as far as the immigrants,

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<v Speaker 1>that in itself is kind of a compartmentalized piece of

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<v Speaker 1>the bigger picture when it comes to people reporting and

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<v Speaker 1>women in general. That what what immigrants are dealing with

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<v Speaker 1>right now is absolutely horrible.

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<v Speaker 3>But when it.

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<v Speaker 1>Comes to reporting in general, you know, it turns out

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<v Speaker 1>that out of the female population, about one quarter of

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<v Speaker 1>them represent or one quarter of them report or or

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<v Speaker 1>a test that they have been sexually assaulted in some way, right,

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<v Speaker 1>But out of all all women that are sexually assaulted,

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<v Speaker 1>only eighty percent of them actually reported. So the reason,

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<v Speaker 1>and I say that, it's because you know, this data

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<v Speaker 1>is taken from people who are willing to disclose that

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<v Speaker 1>they were they were assaulted, they just never reported it,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, officially, right, So we know that out of everybody, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, not everybody's reporting. And and that has changed,

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<v Speaker 1>that has changed. But you know, I want to I

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<v Speaker 1>want to pivot to AJ and get your take on that.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, why why is reporting so important to this

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<v Speaker 1>story and so important to uh what we're hearing from

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<v Speaker 1>trust God.

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<v Speaker 2>One thing I wanted to point out is that the

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<v Speaker 2>colleges that he specifically took this data from were religious colleges,

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<v Speaker 2>and religious colleges have a lower reporting wage than non

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<v Speaker 2>religious colleges. We know that because women feel like they

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<v Speaker 2>are going to be you know, looked down on, or

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<v Speaker 2>you know, because they had sex people marriage, right, they

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<v Speaker 2>could be they there could be punishment for that, for

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<v Speaker 2>doing something that is breaking their religious dogma. So I

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<v Speaker 2>think that just that fact alone is something that that

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<v Speaker 2>completely disqualifies this other, this study or whatever he called it,

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<v Speaker 2>from being any type of legitimacy. Okay, so he just

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<v Speaker 2>picked in twos what negative correlations he wanted to make,

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<v Speaker 2>instead of considering that there were any other possibilities for

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<v Speaker 2>the race, the rise of rape rates or suicide rates

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<v Speaker 2>or whatever. You know, he's claiming that again going back

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<v Speaker 2>to the religious dogma, claiming that alcohol or drugs is

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<v Speaker 2>something that makes atheists commit crimes. It's like, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>the God of the gaps by for negative behavior, and

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<v Speaker 2>it's just like I see somebody sitting and therefore adealism

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<v Speaker 2>must be up the cause.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know there's other there's something else. Well, you,

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<v Speaker 1>first of all, excellent point. Excellent point, because, yeah, these

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<v Speaker 1>statistics are coming from sectors of society where women are subjugated,

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<v Speaker 1>they are held down.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, their word.

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<v Speaker 1>Isn't important, right, it doesn't mean as much as it

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<v Speaker 1>should in these kind of religious corners, these ultra religious

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<v Speaker 1>and ultra Christian owners of our society. You know, we

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<v Speaker 1>we know that by by looking at the Bible. Women

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<v Speaker 1>are supposed to be subservient. Women are supposed to be silent.

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<v Speaker 1>You grow up with that as a woman, and then

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<v Speaker 1>you go to an institution as a woman that frowns

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<v Speaker 1>upon you speaking up, frowns upon you advocating for yourself,

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<v Speaker 1>you're more likely to not come forward.

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<v Speaker 3>I am happy to say that.

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<v Speaker 1>Those numbers are up, but they're still not at one

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<v Speaker 1>hundred percent. And to mis use that data to represent

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<v Speaker 1>all of society again, we are we are ignoring a

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<v Speaker 1>larger part of the problem. And some of that problem

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<v Speaker 1>that I want to talk about is that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>only forty three percent of men report, and I think

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<v Speaker 1>that that number is probably much higher than it should be,

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<v Speaker 1>or excuse me, that number is much higher than that

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<v Speaker 1>of reporting.

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<v Speaker 3>Jonathan, from your perspective, you.

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<v Speaker 1>Know, as a man, as a member of the LGBTQ community,

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<v Speaker 1>how does this demonization of atheists of nuns strike you

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<v Speaker 1>when when it comes to considering that, you know, men

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<v Speaker 1>go through these traumas too, it.

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<v Speaker 5>Strikes me, like, you know, and here, I don't think

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<v Speaker 5>that there's any way that you can tell you can

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<v Speaker 5>tell somebody in the.

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<v Speaker 4>Queer community that men don't get rape. It happens. Is

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<v Speaker 4>it common? No, it does happen. And when it does happen,

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<v Speaker 4>you hear it in the news. Immediately if somebody you know,

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<v Speaker 4>does something like murder somebody after doing it, that it

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<v Speaker 4>gets all the press in the world because they want

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<v Speaker 4>to demonize everybody in the queer community for having one

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<v Speaker 4>or two people done. That reporting is probably more accurate

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<v Speaker 4>than it would be for a woman, because a woman

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<v Speaker 4>is programmed from birth, if she's a Christian or another

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<v Speaker 4>or Islamist or even a Hindu, to not say anything

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<v Speaker 4>because if she does, there are repercussions to that. Well,

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<v Speaker 4>men like me, I would probably say something and everybody

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<v Speaker 4>would laugh at me. You know, well you're queer.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh yeah, well you're also what you get You're also

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<v Speaker 1>you know, a veteran, a big burly dude that could

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<v Speaker 1>handle himself. But you know, everybody can be vulnerable. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>everybody can be a.

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<v Speaker 3>Victim, and that's important to remember.

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<v Speaker 5>And I want to harkem and can commit rape by

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<v Speaker 5>the way, just so you know it has happened.

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<v Speaker 4>It's not common, but it has happened.

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<v Speaker 3>I want to Yeah, go ahead, go ahead.

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<v Speaker 4>I wanted to just mention one thing that the suicide

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<v Speaker 4>rates are up among veterans, extremely high right now, and

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<v Speaker 4>I just wanted to give a shout out to the

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<v Speaker 4>various organizations that are working very hard to stem that

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<v Speaker 4>tide too. And brothers, we're here, we got we're going

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<v Speaker 4>to try and take care of you as best we can.

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<v Speaker 1>And sisters too, let's not forget and sisters too. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I appreciate that.

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<v Speaker 4>You know.

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<v Speaker 1>I I lost somebody I was deployed with to suicide,

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<v Speaker 1>and so that strikes home. We had family a family

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<v Speaker 1>member also take their life, not a service member, but still,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, and let me let me just let me

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<v Speaker 1>just highlight that. Yeah, but you know what for people

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<v Speaker 1>that go through that to see this ugly, ugly reporting, right,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not a game, it's not a joke.

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<v Speaker 3>And this person should really be.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm glad that other journals wouldn't take this seriously and

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<v Speaker 1>publish it. It's not surprised that it took a Christian

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<v Speaker 1>journal to spew lies, but yeah, they definitely should be ashamed.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, aj, I want to pivot back.

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<v Speaker 3>To you for our closing remarks.

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<v Speaker 1>Why and in my opinion, it makes sense for these

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<v Speaker 1>people for this guy to target colleges because colleges is

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<v Speaker 1>where deconstruction takes place. I mean, you leave your home,

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<v Speaker 1>you go to an educational center. It's not because the

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<v Speaker 1>institution is woke. It's because you've got professionals who have

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<v Speaker 1>dedicated their lives to education and learning, giving new ideas

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<v Speaker 1>to people who have been altered their whole life. So

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<v Speaker 1>on that note, that's my opinion. What benefit does this

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<v Speaker 1>person have to attack college campuses and demonize them?

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<v Speaker 2>Go ahead, I have to agree with you what you

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<v Speaker 2>just say about the construction and college being where that happened.

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<v Speaker 2>It's not simply because of the professors, but it's just

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<v Speaker 2>because you're being exposed to more people who are different

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<v Speaker 2>to you, like more LGBTQ people, more women, more different

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<v Speaker 2>people of color, people who are disabled. You know, and

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<v Speaker 2>you are seeing them as humans. Like the whole point

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<v Speaker 2>of these type of arguments that this guy was making

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<v Speaker 2>is to dehumanize great victims and atheists. Okay, And there

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<v Speaker 2>was another sociologist in the article that was mentioned that

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<v Speaker 2>Herman Madame brought him to kind of like counter argue

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<v Speaker 2>the main study, and he said that atheism correlates with supporting,

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<v Speaker 2>helping refugees, universal healthcare, public edication, det with dignity, gay

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<v Speaker 2>and transgender rights, animal whits, and other practices that reduce

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<v Speaker 2>overall harm. And I have to completely agree with that,

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<v Speaker 2>and deconstruction from those dephold religious dogmas is what gould

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<v Speaker 2>help people become more empathetic. And yeah, where we could

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<v Speaker 2>stop seeing that type of view that he's trying to spread.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, And on that note, you know, I just want

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<v Speaker 1>to close out by giving some data to all of

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<v Speaker 1>our viewers. And this comes from the National Sexual Violence

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<v Speaker 1>Resource Center, and I saw this data being used by

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<v Speaker 1>multiple sources when I was kind of looking into this.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to highlight something. So twenty percent of women

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<v Speaker 1>in their lifetimes report completed or attempted rape in the

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<v Speaker 1>United States, and that is twenty four percent of twenty

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<v Speaker 1>four point eight percent of men corresponding to that eighty

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<v Speaker 1>one percent of those women actually reported, only forty three

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<v Speaker 1>percent of men reported. And then women will report that

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<v Speaker 1>one in three of them between the ages of eleven

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<v Speaker 1>and seventeen experienced some kind of sexual assault. For men,

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<v Speaker 1>it is one in four between the ages of eleven

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<v Speaker 1>and seventeen. So we have to look at you know,

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<v Speaker 1>not only how we stigmatize sexual assault reporting, but you

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<v Speaker 1>know where these sexual.

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<v Speaker 3>Assaults are coming from.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not only college campuses, and so it's wrong to

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<v Speaker 1>skew that data that way. We do need to look at,

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<v Speaker 1>to Jonathan's point, the fact that children are unsafe in

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<v Speaker 1>this country, especially by members of the clergy, and so

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<v Speaker 1>that's very important. I encourage all of our viewers to

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<v Speaker 1>look into that. There are a lot of great resources

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<v Speaker 1>out there, and it's something that we hold near and

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<v Speaker 1>dear to our hearts here at the Nonpropit