WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.040 --> 00:00:05.320 It's night time with Dan. I'm telling you Easy Boston's 2 00:00:05.400 --> 00:00:06.000 new video. 3 00:00:07.519 --> 00:00:10.960 But we talked last hour about what it's been the 4 00:00:11.000 --> 00:00:15.720 biggest news story in some time, and that is the murder, 5 00:00:16.239 --> 00:00:23.640 the cold blooded, cowardly murder of the CEO of United Healthcare. 6 00:00:23.800 --> 00:00:26.079 And with us now is doctor Scott Bond, who's been 7 00:00:26.120 --> 00:00:29.719 a guest of ours before and delighted to have him back. 8 00:00:30.120 --> 00:00:33.880 He's a crime expert, a criminologist, and someone who knows 9 00:00:33.880 --> 00:00:38.000 a lot about the mind of people who literally go 10 00:00:38.079 --> 00:00:41.719 off the rail. Now, welcome back, Scott. How are you tonight. 11 00:00:42.640 --> 00:00:44.679 I'm doing great, Dan, It's good to be here. Thank 12 00:00:44.719 --> 00:00:46.000 you absolutely. 13 00:00:46.079 --> 00:00:49.039 I know you recently were in our area and some 14 00:00:49.039 --> 00:00:52.679 folks had a chance to watch you live. And I 15 00:00:52.719 --> 00:00:57.119 know that you have a great deal of expertise, particularly 16 00:00:57.200 --> 00:01:01.280 as it deals with serial killers and some of the 17 00:01:01.320 --> 00:01:04.879 serial killers that you not only have studied, but you've 18 00:01:04.879 --> 00:01:09.519 got to know. Tell us about a couple you've actually 19 00:01:09.599 --> 00:01:12.120 written a book, I believe, with a fairly well known 20 00:01:12.159 --> 00:01:15.120 serial killer that you've got to know very well. 21 00:01:16.200 --> 00:01:21.040 Yes, yes, well, thank you for that question. And I 22 00:01:21.040 --> 00:01:23.799 have a little bit of a unique background, if you recall, 23 00:01:24.159 --> 00:01:29.040 because for about twenty years, I was in the news, 24 00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:35.760 media and entertainment aspect of the world, and for a while, 25 00:01:35.799 --> 00:01:39.159 for example, I was actually the vice president of marketing 26 00:01:39.200 --> 00:01:42.599 and Promotion at NBC Television Network, and this was in 27 00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:45.359 the nineteen nineties, and it was while I was working 28 00:01:45.400 --> 00:01:48.560 there with the news division, I saw how certain cases, 29 00:01:48.640 --> 00:01:51.000 and in the nineties we're talking about things like the 30 00:01:51.079 --> 00:01:55.680 Johnny Versace murder, OJ Simpson trial, Menendez Brothers, and even 31 00:01:55.840 --> 00:01:59.959 Jeffrey Dahmer, how these cases became larger than life, similar 32 00:01:59.920 --> 00:02:03.599 to this Mangione case right now, and how the individuals 33 00:02:03.640 --> 00:02:08.159 involved become what I refer to as celebrity monsters, you know, 34 00:02:08.599 --> 00:02:13.280 they become almost part of our popular culture and become 35 00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:19.120 symbolic as examples of evil. And that really really intrigued me, 36 00:02:19.919 --> 00:02:23.199 and I then went back after nine to eleven. I 37 00:02:23.319 --> 00:02:26.039 was moved, as many people were, by the terrible events 38 00:02:26.039 --> 00:02:28.719 of nine to eleven, and I decided to get a 39 00:02:28.759 --> 00:02:33.080 PhD in criminology and Justice studies, and I became a professor, 40 00:02:33.599 --> 00:02:36.759 and as I was teaching and working with students, I 41 00:02:36.759 --> 00:02:40.439 saw how fascinated they would become by serial killers. Anytime 42 00:02:40.479 --> 00:02:43.360 I mentioned Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer, and this led 43 00:02:43.400 --> 00:02:47.159 me into an investigation sort of the dual investigation of 44 00:02:47.319 --> 00:02:51.240 the criminals themselves, the killers, their minds, why they do 45 00:02:51.319 --> 00:02:54.840 what they do, but then also our interest and fixation 46 00:02:54.960 --> 00:02:57.719 on these individuals and why were so fascinated by them. 47 00:02:57.960 --> 00:03:00.879 And it culminated in a book which I appreciate you 48 00:03:00.960 --> 00:03:04.719 mentioning it, which is titled Why We Love Serial Killers, 49 00:03:04.759 --> 00:03:08.039 The Curious Appeal of the World's Most Savage Murderers. And 50 00:03:08.120 --> 00:03:11.599 I realized that is an ironic title because it's, you know, 51 00:03:11.719 --> 00:03:14.240 it's is it a love per se or more fascination, 52 00:03:14.599 --> 00:03:17.240 although I've talked to groupies who say they do love 53 00:03:17.280 --> 00:03:22.120 these individuals. And ultimately it was this book, this book 54 00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:25.479 and my research that then led to my current tour 55 00:03:25.680 --> 00:03:29.560 and my stage show and my one night or one 56 00:03:29.599 --> 00:03:32.240 man show, I should say, where I tour the country 57 00:03:32.479 --> 00:03:38.400 talking about these diabolical individuals. So it's kind of a 58 00:03:38.479 --> 00:03:41.719 dual pronged approach. The way I come at it. I 59 00:03:41.759 --> 00:03:44.360 come at it sort of from the pop culture perspective 60 00:03:44.360 --> 00:03:45.639 and the fascination of it all. 61 00:03:46.599 --> 00:03:50.680 Well, I remember you were here in Boston last spring 62 00:03:51.479 --> 00:03:56.199 and you had a very successful performance here. You have 63 00:03:56.280 --> 00:04:00.599 a website which is simply doc ball and b O 64 00:04:00.879 --> 00:04:05.639 n N like the former capital of Germany dot com UH, 65 00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:08.879 and people can in our audience check out you. You 66 00:04:08.960 --> 00:04:12.039 have a very full schedule already for twenty twenty five. 67 00:04:12.120 --> 00:04:17.000 You have locations and cities booked well into the UH 68 00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:21.040 the new the coming year, right up until November as 69 00:04:21.079 --> 00:04:24.160 a matter of fact, and you will be back in 70 00:04:24.279 --> 00:04:29.439 New England in Connecticut in March. But and we can 71 00:04:29.439 --> 00:04:31.519 talk about that a little bit later. But what I 72 00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:36.360 what I want to focus on is, uh, we we 73 00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:39.920 do have this fascination with the serial killers and whether 74 00:04:39.959 --> 00:04:42.959 it was you know, uh, the guy in New York 75 00:04:44.079 --> 00:04:46.560 Sam Uh who he's. 76 00:04:48.439 --> 00:04:49.040 Day. 77 00:04:49.639 --> 00:04:50.720 Yeah, he's still oh yeah. 78 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:53.959 I spent a long time working with him and interviewing 79 00:04:54.040 --> 00:04:55.920 him and writing about him. Absolutely. 80 00:04:56.519 --> 00:04:59.800 And it's it's interesting because obviously this murder of the 81 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:05.199 CEO with United Healthcare occurred in New York. So assuming 82 00:05:05.639 --> 00:05:13.120 that this individual who they have in custody, Luigi Maggioni Mangioni, 83 00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:19.319 is convicted, he'll spend the toughest penalty. He'll face his 84 00:05:19.480 --> 00:05:21.800 life in prison. There's no death penalty in New York, 85 00:05:22.160 --> 00:05:26.639 so he can fight this. But he knows that he's 86 00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:31.759 going to breathe the air here on our planet for 87 00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:38.000 probably fifty to sixty years, while Brian Thompson's days here 88 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:41.560 unnumbered and his wife is now a widow, and his children, 89 00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:44.879 his two sons, have lost a dad, which is what 90 00:05:45.279 --> 00:05:50.240 you know infuriates me. Talk about if you will, and 91 00:05:50.279 --> 00:05:54.920 again if to whatever extent you can, about the Mangioni case. 92 00:05:57.040 --> 00:06:02.040 At least right now, I believe exec shooting search warrants today, 93 00:06:02.560 --> 00:06:07.160 but not to find out. Is it your sense that 94 00:06:07.240 --> 00:06:10.480 he would have acted totally alone. I mean, he apparently 95 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:12.519 was found with a lot of cash on him, eight 96 00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:16.240 thousand dollars in the United States currency and two thousand 97 00:06:16.279 --> 00:06:22.079 dollars of I guess foreign currency. Is it your sense 98 00:06:22.120 --> 00:06:26.399 that this is something that he did completely without any 99 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:28.879 sort of assistance, either before or after, or do you 100 00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:30.560 think there might be more people involved? 101 00:06:31.399 --> 00:06:34.160 Well, let me let me start by saying this, and 102 00:06:34.519 --> 00:06:38.879 also to partially I realized it didn't fully answer your question. 103 00:06:39.079 --> 00:06:43.959 Your first question, and that is I have focused my 104 00:06:44.199 --> 00:06:51.120 work on individuals that are quite grandiose and are attention seekers, 105 00:06:51.480 --> 00:06:55.319 and so I'm talking about in the case of you know, Dave, 106 00:06:55.439 --> 00:06:59.759 you mentioned David Berkowitz, the infamous son of Sam serial killer. 107 00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:03.279 He was a very much an attention seeker. He had 108 00:07:03.319 --> 00:07:06.759 an agenda. He wanted to terrorize New York City. I 109 00:07:06.800 --> 00:07:11.279 also spent a long time corresponding interviewing someone by the 110 00:07:11.360 --> 00:07:14.120 name of Dennis Raider, and your audience may know him. 111 00:07:14.199 --> 00:07:19.199 Dennis Raider called himself buying torture kill or BDK, because 112 00:07:19.199 --> 00:07:22.040 that's what he did as a serial killer to his victims. 113 00:07:22.279 --> 00:07:26.399 And he was, if anything, even more narcissistic and grandios. 114 00:07:26.839 --> 00:07:29.560 He went to the extent of writing to the media 115 00:07:29.639 --> 00:07:32.439 and law enforcement and saying, how many people do I 116 00:07:32.519 --> 00:07:35.560 have to effing kill before I get a little notoriety 117 00:07:35.839 --> 00:07:39.839 around here? So that's how grandiose he is. And I 118 00:07:39.879 --> 00:07:42.319 say is because he is still alive as well in 119 00:07:42.920 --> 00:07:46.920 locked away in solitary confinement. But bringing it to Mangione, 120 00:07:47.480 --> 00:07:52.480 he is also I believe someone who is very grandiose 121 00:07:52.680 --> 00:07:58.360 and narcissistic is very interesting. He apparently was an admirer 122 00:07:58.639 --> 00:08:05.160 and devote even of Ted Kaczynski, the infamous unibomber, and 123 00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:12.000 the Unibomber was very much an anarchist for decades. He 124 00:08:12.040 --> 00:08:15.519 saw himself, I think as an agent of change, wanting 125 00:08:15.560 --> 00:08:21.240 to wanting to reset the system and change our morality, 126 00:08:21.399 --> 00:08:25.160 change our value system away from the technology that he saw, 127 00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:30.399 you know, destroying the world. And I think that man 128 00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:34.639 Joni is very much cut out of that cloth, and 129 00:08:34.679 --> 00:08:37.639 that's why he admired the unibomber. I think he sees 130 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:41.559 himself as an agent of change and an and an 131 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:45.240 anarchist and someone who is making a statement, and in 132 00:08:45.279 --> 00:08:47.879 his case, it seems to be you know, an anger 133 00:08:48.159 --> 00:08:51.919 and frustration with the healthcare system in the United States. Now, 134 00:08:52.159 --> 00:08:55.080 a lot of people have frustrations with the healthcare system, 135 00:08:55.279 --> 00:08:57.440 but they don't take it to the extent of killing 136 00:08:58.080 --> 00:09:01.279 the CEO of the fifth largest the company in the 137 00:09:01.759 --> 00:09:04.399 you know, in the United States. But I do think 138 00:09:04.399 --> 00:09:07.480 that he is grandiose. I do think that he is 139 00:09:08.279 --> 00:09:13.480 narcissistic and very much sees himself as almost like a vigilante, 140 00:09:13.519 --> 00:09:17.840 almost like a batman sort of of character, you know, 141 00:09:17.919 --> 00:09:20.600 breaking the law for what he thinks is a higher 142 00:09:20.639 --> 00:09:24.440 purpose and goal, which is changing society and making health 143 00:09:24.440 --> 00:09:28.960 care more affordable and available to everyone. 144 00:09:29.080 --> 00:09:32.519 He also had that outburst yesterday as he was being 145 00:09:32.600 --> 00:09:36.559 led into the court in Altoona, Pennsylvania. 146 00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:38.840 Yeah, yeah, which which was a little you know, it 147 00:09:38.919 --> 00:09:41.360 did it didn't make a whole lot of sense. You know, 148 00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:44.200 he was ranting, you know, but it's a little unclear 149 00:09:44.519 --> 00:09:46.799 exactly what he was saying. So, but put to your 150 00:09:46.840 --> 00:09:51.000 point into your question, I think that he over the 151 00:09:51.039 --> 00:09:53.720 last couple of years, he increasingly isolated, you know, he 152 00:09:53.840 --> 00:09:56.919 separated from his job, he separated from his friends, and 153 00:09:56.960 --> 00:09:59.159 then he went off the radar completely even with his 154 00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:02.279 own family in the last six months or so. So 155 00:10:02.759 --> 00:10:06.200 this is a guy who I think may have been 156 00:10:06.240 --> 00:10:10.440 slowly losing his grip on reality. There may be some 157 00:10:10.600 --> 00:10:13.919 you know, some real serious underlying, you know, mental health 158 00:10:13.960 --> 00:10:17.600 issues there. That's of course yet to be determined. But 159 00:10:17.600 --> 00:10:21.120 but the way he isolated himself is an indication of that. 160 00:10:21.559 --> 00:10:24.000 And I do think he acted alone. I don't think 161 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:26.399 I don't think he had partners in this. I don't 162 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:29.759 think that there's any grand conspiracy or cult or anything 163 00:10:29.840 --> 00:10:30.919 like that. 164 00:10:30.919 --> 00:10:32.559 That's that's fair. The other thing what you wanted to 165 00:10:32.559 --> 00:10:34.600 mention when you when you were comparing him to Kosinski 166 00:10:34.720 --> 00:10:36.639 both Ivy League graduates. 167 00:10:36.679 --> 00:10:41.840 That's right. Highly these are super intelligent guys, super intelligent guys, 168 00:10:42.159 --> 00:10:45.960 highly educated. Ivy league educated, as you said, so there 169 00:10:45.960 --> 00:10:49.360 are some interesting parallels there. I mean, Kavinski came from 170 00:10:49.399 --> 00:10:52.440 a you know, like a working class background, whereas man 171 00:10:52.519 --> 00:10:56.000 Joni came from a you know, a fairly up you know, upscale, 172 00:10:56.080 --> 00:10:58.519 well to do family. But but in terms of their 173 00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:02.600 education and their their intelligence, you know, very very similar. 174 00:11:02.759 --> 00:11:07.080 And you know, I believe I wouldn't be all surprised, 175 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:08.759 you know that there. Of course, they are going to 176 00:11:08.759 --> 00:11:11.360 be forensic psychologists that are going to do batteries of 177 00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:14.879 tests on this guy, and I wouldn't at all be 178 00:11:15.000 --> 00:11:19.519 surprised to find out that he has paranoid you know, 179 00:11:19.720 --> 00:11:22.759 delusions of grandeur and paranoid tendencies. 180 00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:26.240 Well the other the other thing which I think is 181 00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:29.279 important to mention. And then just as as the lawyer here, 182 00:11:29.639 --> 00:11:34.639 I have to jump in a insanity defense in this 183 00:11:34.759 --> 00:11:38.480 case is going to be very difficult because this guy 184 00:11:38.679 --> 00:11:41.519 knew exactly what he was doing, and you cannot just 185 00:11:41.600 --> 00:11:44.519 say the standard is not well, that what that guy 186 00:11:44.559 --> 00:11:47.600 did was crazy, because obviously a lot of these cases 187 00:11:47.679 --> 00:11:50.840 what they do are crazy, But the question is was 188 00:11:50.919 --> 00:11:55.159 he unable? In order to mount to successful insanity defense, 189 00:11:55.360 --> 00:11:58.320 a lawyer has to prove that the client, that defendant 190 00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:01.360 was unable to distinguish between. 191 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:04.799 Right and wrong, and not only not only that, but 192 00:12:04.919 --> 00:12:07.399 at the exact moment that he did it, not five 193 00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:10.639 minutes before or five minutes after, at that exact moment. 194 00:12:10.879 --> 00:12:13.840 And as you say, that's a very very difficult bar. 195 00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:17.639 To way, but particularly in this case where apparently he 196 00:12:17.679 --> 00:12:21.440 had some sort of a manifesto in which absolutely to 197 00:12:21.519 --> 00:12:24.440 the FBI. Look, you know what I did, I know 198 00:12:24.559 --> 00:12:27.320 was wrong, but it had sort of I'm paraphrasing here, 199 00:12:28.039 --> 00:12:30.440 and he didn't want to inconvenience and he's sorry for 200 00:12:30.519 --> 00:12:35.039 whatever he did. So look, I think that this is 201 00:12:35.159 --> 00:12:39.639 as as Look, I'm a lawyer. I understand that people 202 00:12:40.039 --> 00:12:43.840 are innocent and to proof and guilty. I get that concept. Okay. 203 00:12:44.080 --> 00:12:47.240 In my time as a Tellvision reporter, I'm proud to 204 00:12:47.279 --> 00:12:49.840 say that was able to prove the innocence of four 205 00:12:49.879 --> 00:12:52.159 men who had spent one hundred and nine years in 206 00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:55.919 prison for murder. They had nothing to do with my 207 00:12:56.039 --> 00:13:01.279 proudest moment as a television reporter. And but but I 208 00:13:01.399 --> 00:13:05.519 do look at this, and the presumption of innocence goes 209 00:13:05.519 --> 00:13:10.039 so far. Yeah, yeah, talk show host, Okay, Yeah, let 210 00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:15.039 me do this, my guess is doctor Scott Bonn. Again. 211 00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:18.919 You can check out his website. Interesting gentlemen, Doc Bonn 212 00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:23.279 DC bo n n dot com. Let's talk a little 213 00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:29.000 bit again. I know that this is not the specific 214 00:13:29.159 --> 00:13:32.240 area of your expertise, but I'm going to invite people 215 00:13:32.679 --> 00:13:35.720 to join the conversation as we did a couple of 216 00:13:35.720 --> 00:13:39.399 months ago, if you want to ask any questions about 217 00:13:39.399 --> 00:13:44.720 some of the horrific serial killers that we have come 218 00:13:44.759 --> 00:13:49.080 to know over the years. Uh. Doctor Bonn has had 219 00:13:49.720 --> 00:13:53.240 in many cases face to face interaction and has studied 220 00:13:53.240 --> 00:13:56.200 their lives, so we'll talk about some of them. My 221 00:13:56.399 --> 00:13:59.320 question is I wonder if this was the end of 222 00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:01.200 it for this guy. And I'm gonna leave this question 223 00:14:01.279 --> 00:14:04.000 hanging for the break. We call it a tease, Doctor Barne. 224 00:14:04.039 --> 00:14:06.600 You know exactly what I'm what I'm talking about. Is 225 00:14:06.639 --> 00:14:10.240 it your sense that if this fellow had gone undetected, 226 00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:17.559 if there had not been a visual photograph that was 227 00:14:17.639 --> 00:14:22.200 released which allowed someone in that McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania 228 00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:26.120 to notice him and identify him, is it your sense 229 00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:29.120 that this might have been one a one and done 230 00:14:29.200 --> 00:14:29.840 with this guy? 231 00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:33.600 Or you know, it's a great question. You know it's 232 00:14:33.639 --> 00:14:34.519 really a great question. 233 00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:37.600 I hold your answer until after the break. Okay, Oh 234 00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:41.000 that's Okay're gonna hold you. That's what's called the teas, 235 00:14:41.080 --> 00:14:42.960 and we'll take a quick break here. My guest is 236 00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:45.559 doctor Scott Bonne. If you'd like to join the conversation 237 00:14:45.639 --> 00:14:48.480 and ask your great questions six one, seven, two, five, 238 00:14:48.519 --> 00:14:51.720 four ten thirty six one seven, nine, three one ten thirty. 239 00:14:51.759 --> 00:14:54.240 You may never be able to speak with a serial 240 00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:58.240 killer in your entire life, but you can speak to 241 00:14:58.279 --> 00:15:01.679 someone who has studied serial killer and who has understood 242 00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:06.240 the mind of serial killers and has actually met face 243 00:15:06.279 --> 00:15:09.120 to face and talked at length with some of these 244 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:12.000 serial killers. I'm delighted to have Scott Bond with us tonight. 245 00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:14.720 This was scheduled in advance by the way of what 246 00:15:14.840 --> 00:15:17.879 happened last Wednesday morning in New York City. Uh, but 247 00:15:18.039 --> 00:15:21.960 for us, it is a very opportune time for us 248 00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:24.279 to speak with Scott Bond, and I hope you will 249 00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:25.440 join us. Coming back on. 250 00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:29.240 Nightside Now back to Dan Ray Mine from the Window 251 00:15:29.240 --> 00:15:32.799 World night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio. 252 00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:36.279 Yes, we are in the Window World to night Side Studios, 253 00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:40.279 and we're talking with doctor Scott Bond doc bonn dot 254 00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:42.799 com if you'd like to check him out. I taught 255 00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:46.759 at the University of Miami's had a career in television, 256 00:15:47.399 --> 00:15:50.919 and now he has well he's studying serial killers. So 257 00:15:51.039 --> 00:15:53.840 my question, again, this is a question we'll never know 258 00:15:53.960 --> 00:15:57.919 the actual answer to, but from your perspective, with your expertise, 259 00:15:58.639 --> 00:16:03.360 do you think that us Luigi Mangioni that this was 260 00:16:03.399 --> 00:16:05.600 going to be the only hit that he was going 261 00:16:05.639 --> 00:16:07.440 to carry out, or do you think if somehow he 262 00:16:07.559 --> 00:16:10.279 remained undetected he might have done it? Again? 263 00:16:11.679 --> 00:16:14.639 Great, great, great question, And I had some change, a 264 00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:16.840 little time to think about it there during the during 265 00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:22.360 the break, which I appreciate. And so here are my thoughts. 266 00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:26.279 Number One, the reason that he's in custody right now 267 00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:29.080 is because he made a mistake. It looks like he 268 00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:31.919 planned this pretty carefully, but he did make a mistake 269 00:16:31.960 --> 00:16:34.159 by lowering his mask at the hostel there in New 270 00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:36.200 York that he checked into, and they had him on 271 00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:38.960 the camera and that's how the McDonald's worker was able 272 00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:42.840 to identify him. Now when they when they got him 273 00:16:42.879 --> 00:16:47.120 there at McDonald's, they found him buried in depth doing 274 00:16:47.200 --> 00:16:51.399 research on his computer. And based upon what he was 275 00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:54.120 doing on that computer at that time may help to 276 00:16:54.159 --> 00:16:56.879 answer that question. He may have been doing research on 277 00:16:56.960 --> 00:17:04.599 the next CEO. He may have been researching the architecture 278 00:17:04.599 --> 00:17:07.640 of a particular building that he was looking to you 279 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:12.920 to infiltrate. Because he obviously did extensive research to figure 280 00:17:12.920 --> 00:17:16.680 out where his victim in New York would be at 281 00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:20.680 exactly six thirty in the morning and not the main 282 00:17:20.799 --> 00:17:22.440 entrance to the Hilton. He knew that he was going 283 00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:24.559 to come in through the side door. Now how did 284 00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:26.039 he do that? How did he do that? How did 285 00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:31.000 he know that? He did extensive research, so when they accessor. 286 00:17:32.799 --> 00:17:36.799 Or doctor bond, he was able to get access to 287 00:17:36.839 --> 00:17:41.720 inside information, either voluntarily released or somehow he was able 288 00:17:41.759 --> 00:17:42.880 to hack into something. 289 00:17:42.920 --> 00:17:46.079 Because you're right exactly, that's my point. That's my point. 290 00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:49.440 He did his research, he did his planning. This guy 291 00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:53.359 is a planner. This was no impulse kill, which again 292 00:17:53.400 --> 00:17:56.960 gets to his premeditation and the likelihood that he's going 293 00:17:56.960 --> 00:18:01.440 to be able to use an insanity is almost nil. 294 00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:04.599 Like like you said, but back to back to his 295 00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:10.640 possibility possible career as a as a killer. They're going 296 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:12.759 to they're going to find out a lot by digging 297 00:18:12.759 --> 00:18:15.079 into that computer and into his files and see what 298 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:17.960 he was doing. Now at the time they apprehended him, 299 00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:21.039 as you said, eight thousand dollars in US cash and 300 00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:23.920 also foreign cash. What was he planning to do with that? 301 00:18:24.359 --> 00:18:25.920 Was he planning to get out of the country and 302 00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:29.880 escape or was he planning his next potentially his next victim. 303 00:18:30.119 --> 00:18:32.880 He still had his gun. That's interesting. Wouldn't you want 304 00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:34.160 to get rid of a gun if it was a 305 00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:36.440 one off and you didn't want to be connected to it. 306 00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:39.079 But he still had his gun, so that may indicate 307 00:18:39.160 --> 00:18:41.640 that he did have additional plan. 308 00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:43.799 So I also think the comment is that that you 309 00:18:43.880 --> 00:18:47.480 made about him being narcissistic and if he did have 310 00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:52.079 a warm spot in his heart for Ted Kazinski. Ted 311 00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:59.079 Kazinski was able to inflict damage and death remotely for years, 312 00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:03.839 for years years, So if he really was a devilte 313 00:19:04.519 --> 00:19:14.079 of Kazinski, what a what a I guess history he 314 00:19:14.119 --> 00:19:17.160 could see himself. Potentially he could be moving around the 315 00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:21.319 country and hitting more than one target. Is really what. 316 00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:26.079 Without a doubt and without a doubt, and bringing it 317 00:19:26.119 --> 00:19:30.200 back to serial killers, there is a serial killers are 318 00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:32.480 not one size fits all. As we discussed I think 319 00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:36.559 during our last conversation, they have different motivations and they 320 00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:40.200 fall into different categories. There happens to be a category 321 00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:43.720 of serial killer known as a mission killer. And this 322 00:19:43.880 --> 00:19:47.240 is a serial killer who has defined a particular type 323 00:19:47.240 --> 00:19:51.440 of target or category that they believe it's necessary to eliminate. 324 00:19:51.640 --> 00:19:53.680 And I'm going to give you an example. I was 325 00:19:53.720 --> 00:19:58.160 in Miami when Andrew Cananan shot Conti Versace and that 326 00:19:58.319 --> 00:20:03.240 turned that city upside down. Andrew kananmen they determined, was 327 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:09.880 a serial killer who was targeting older, very affluent, prominent 328 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:13.079 gay men because he feels that he felt that he 329 00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:15.480 had been thrown away by these men. He was a 330 00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:18.119 boy toy, so to speak, and he was angry at 331 00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:22.240 these older gay men. So we potentially, potentially, and it 332 00:20:22.359 --> 00:20:27.920 makes for interesting conversation, have a budding mission killer of 333 00:20:28.599 --> 00:20:34.079 CEOs or the those that he sees as exploiting America 334 00:20:34.279 --> 00:20:39.440 and taking advantage of the of the sicken and individuals 335 00:20:39.480 --> 00:20:42.920 suffering and pain and at. 336 00:20:42.839 --> 00:20:46.920 All and his the guy he admired Kazinsky, had a mission. 337 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:49.680 He was a mission killer as well. All right, my 338 00:20:49.720 --> 00:20:52.359 guest is doctor Scott Bond. We will take a break. 339 00:20:52.359 --> 00:20:54.359 We're going to go right to phone calls. I got 340 00:20:54.839 --> 00:20:57.200 Vinnie and Sheldon and Paul and Marty. Bring it on 341 00:20:57.319 --> 00:20:59.480 with coming back on night Side, the only one line 342 00:20:59.519 --> 00:20:59.960 open six. 343 00:21:04.519 --> 00:21:09.759 You're on night Side with Dan Ray. I'm Boston's news radio. 344 00:21:11.720 --> 00:21:14.279 Scott Bone. Let's get to phone calls. They're waiting for you. 345 00:21:14.319 --> 00:21:17.880 Okay, you're ready, all right, all right, let's go. 346 00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:20.920 Let's go to Vinnie in nine. Vinnie first this hour 347 00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:24.720 with doctor Scott do expert on serial killers, but we're 348 00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:27.839 also talking about Luigi MANSI going to go ahead, Vinnie. 349 00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:32.039 So, Dan, thank you for inviting me as your guest 350 00:21:32.200 --> 00:21:34.880 on your show, My doctor. Thank you for your time. 351 00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:37.960 I want to make it clear that the reason why 352 00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:42.160 I'm so into Sierra Tillersn't detective work is because I 353 00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:46.599 deeply respect good police work, and I deeply believe that 354 00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:49.039 if you hurt someone, you need to be held a 355 00:21:49.160 --> 00:21:55.599 common Please just stand me out and just just humor me. 356 00:21:55.759 --> 00:21:59.279 Just stand me out. We talk about narcissippim, talk about 357 00:21:59.799 --> 00:22:04.599 no feeling for the other person. You're talking about serial 358 00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:07.759 killers being saved. For example, the typical serial killer kills 359 00:22:07.880 --> 00:22:13.720 many people. I'm wondering if with your expertise and the 360 00:22:13.839 --> 00:22:16.440 checkboxes that you need to check. If you put the 361 00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:21.680 CEO in your analyzation, would he become a serial killer 362 00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:28.440 whereas he neglected and he used, in my opinion blarstening 363 00:22:28.519 --> 00:22:31.440 to take their money and not fulfill the contract. And 364 00:22:31.519 --> 00:22:35.319 would he have continued to be responsible for more people's death. 365 00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:38.799 By the way, video, I think that your analysis is, 366 00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:45.160 in my opinion, is pretty perverted. But let's see what 367 00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:48.200 doctor Vaughn says. Okay, I mean so. 368 00:22:48.920 --> 00:22:51.599 I'm just trying to understand what the listener is doing here. 369 00:22:51.599 --> 00:22:56.640 That listeners trying to put the victim in the in 370 00:22:56.680 --> 00:22:59.799 the in the role of a serial killer. Get comparing 371 00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:00.920 him to a serial killers. 372 00:23:01.720 --> 00:23:04.240 Exactly what he's doing, right, Vinnie in Yer? 373 00:23:04.640 --> 00:23:05.119 In general? 374 00:23:05.279 --> 00:23:08.319 In general? Yeah, specific, but in general. Go ahead, go ahead, 375 00:23:08.319 --> 00:23:09.200 doctor bunk Well. 376 00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:11.759 I think I think that's I have to say. I 377 00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:14.400 think that's palace and immoral. You know what you're what 378 00:23:14.440 --> 00:23:19.400 you're saying, this individual was murdered. Now, you may have 379 00:23:19.759 --> 00:23:22.839 issues with the healthcare system in the United States. I 380 00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:25.799 have some issues with the healthcare, but that certainly does 381 00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:29.839 not give me you or MANNGIONI the right to kill 382 00:23:29.920 --> 00:23:34.400 another person. So no, I think you're completely off base. 383 00:23:36.279 --> 00:23:39.400 Bye way, by your theory, you know, about thirty thousand 384 00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:43.000 people die in automobile accidents every year. So by your theory, 385 00:23:43.359 --> 00:23:47.240 I guess every CEO of General Motors, Ford and all 386 00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:50.720 the other uh, you know companies, they should be next. 387 00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:54.720 I mean, come on, Vin, and you're you're you're saying, 388 00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:59.039 you're saying that he's a serial killer where an individual 389 00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:03.119 is directly responsible for taking another person's life. And what 390 00:24:03.160 --> 00:24:05.920 you're you're trying to say that he's that the victim 391 00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:08.359 here is a serial killer because people in the United 392 00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:11.519 States die. I mean, that's just that you talk about, 393 00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:16.359 uh a manufactured reality. It's just it's it's not even 394 00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:17.200 close to being real. 395 00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:20.240 But Vinnie, I appreciate your point of view, and I'm 396 00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:21.880 going to move on because I think we're beating you 397 00:24:21.960 --> 00:24:26.279 up quite a bit. Have a great knight, Vinnie. Both 398 00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:29.799 the killers sleep well. Vinnie, thanks very much. 399 00:24:30.599 --> 00:24:33.799 If you got Paul to be a little sorry to 400 00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:35.720 be a little emphatic there, but I just think that that, 401 00:24:35.880 --> 00:24:37.039