Speaker 1: It's night time with Dan. I'm telling you Easy Boston's
Speaker 1: new video.
Speaker 2: But we talked last hour about what it's been the
Speaker 2: biggest news story in some time, and that is the murder,
Speaker 2: the cold blooded, cowardly murder of the CEO of United Healthcare.
Speaker 2: And with us now is doctor Scott Bond, who's been
Speaker 2: a guest of ours before and delighted to have him back.
Speaker 2: He's a crime expert, a criminologist, and someone who knows
Speaker 2: a lot about the mind of people who literally go
Speaker 2: off the rail. Now, welcome back, Scott. How are you tonight.
Speaker 3: I'm doing great, Dan, It's good to be here. Thank
Speaker 3: you absolutely.
Speaker 2: I know you recently were in our area and some
Speaker 2: folks had a chance to watch you live. And I
Speaker 2: know that you have a great deal of expertise, particularly
Speaker 2: as it deals with serial killers and some of the
Speaker 2: serial killers that you not only have studied, but you've
Speaker 2: got to know. Tell us about a couple you've actually
Speaker 2: written a book, I believe, with a fairly well known
Speaker 2: serial killer that you've got to know very well.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, well, thank you for that question. And I
Speaker 3: have a little bit of a unique background, if you recall,
Speaker 3: because for about twenty years, I was in the news,
Speaker 3: media and entertainment aspect of the world, and for a while,
Speaker 3: for example, I was actually the vice president of marketing
Speaker 3: and Promotion at NBC Television Network, and this was in
Speaker 3: the nineteen nineties, and it was while I was working
Speaker 3: there with the news division, I saw how certain cases,
Speaker 3: and in the nineties we're talking about things like the
Speaker 3: Johnny Versace murder, OJ Simpson trial, Menendez Brothers, and even
Speaker 3: Jeffrey Dahmer, how these cases became larger than life, similar
Speaker 3: to this Mangione case right now, and how the individuals
Speaker 3: involved become what I refer to as celebrity monsters, you know,
Speaker 3: they become almost part of our popular culture and become
Speaker 3: symbolic as examples of evil. And that really really intrigued me,
Speaker 3: and I then went back after nine to eleven. I
Speaker 3: was moved, as many people were, by the terrible events
Speaker 3: of nine to eleven, and I decided to get a
Speaker 3: PhD in criminology and Justice studies, and I became a professor,
Speaker 3: and as I was teaching and working with students, I
Speaker 3: saw how fascinated they would become by serial killers. Anytime
Speaker 3: I mentioned Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer, and this led
Speaker 3: me into an investigation sort of the dual investigation of
Speaker 3: the criminals themselves, the killers, their minds, why they do
Speaker 3: what they do, but then also our interest and fixation
Speaker 3: on these individuals and why were so fascinated by them.
Speaker 3: And it culminated in a book which I appreciate you
Speaker 3: mentioning it, which is titled Why We Love Serial Killers,
Speaker 3: The Curious Appeal of the World's Most Savage Murderers. And
Speaker 3: I realized that is an ironic title because it's, you know,
Speaker 3: it's is it a love per se or more fascination,
Speaker 3: although I've talked to groupies who say they do love
Speaker 3: these individuals. And ultimately it was this book, this book
Speaker 3: and my research that then led to my current tour
Speaker 3: and my stage show and my one night or one
Speaker 3: man show, I should say, where I tour the country
Speaker 3: talking about these diabolical individuals. So it's kind of a
Speaker 3: dual pronged approach. The way I come at it. I
Speaker 3: come at it sort of from the pop culture perspective
Speaker 3: and the fascination of it all.
Speaker 2: Well, I remember you were here in Boston last spring
Speaker 2: and you had a very successful performance here. You have
Speaker 2: a website which is simply doc ball and b O
Speaker 2: n N like the former capital of Germany dot com UH,
Speaker 2: and people can in our audience check out you. You
Speaker 2: have a very full schedule already for twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2: You have locations and cities booked well into the UH
Speaker 2: the new the coming year, right up until November as
Speaker 2: a matter of fact, and you will be back in
Speaker 2: New England in Connecticut in March. But and we can
Speaker 2: talk about that a little bit later. But what I
Speaker 2: what I want to focus on is, uh, we we
Speaker 2: do have this fascination with the serial killers and whether
Speaker 2: it was you know, uh, the guy in New York
Speaker 2: Sam Uh who he's.
Speaker 3: Day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's still oh yeah.
Speaker 3: I spent a long time working with him and interviewing
Speaker 3: him and writing about him. Absolutely.
Speaker 2: And it's it's interesting because obviously this murder of the
Speaker 2: CEO with United Healthcare occurred in New York. So assuming
Speaker 2: that this individual who they have in custody, Luigi Maggioni Mangioni,
Speaker 2: is convicted, he'll spend the toughest penalty. He'll face his
Speaker 2: life in prison. There's no death penalty in New York,
Speaker 2: so he can fight this. But he knows that he's
Speaker 2: going to breathe the air here on our planet for
Speaker 2: probably fifty to sixty years, while Brian Thompson's days here
Speaker 2: unnumbered and his wife is now a widow, and his children,
Speaker 2: his two sons, have lost a dad, which is what
Speaker 2: you know infuriates me. Talk about if you will, and
Speaker 2: again if to whatever extent you can, about the Mangioni case.
Speaker 2: At least right now, I believe exec shooting search warrants today,
Speaker 2: but not to find out. Is it your sense that
Speaker 2: he would have acted totally alone. I mean, he apparently
Speaker 2: was found with a lot of cash on him, eight
Speaker 2: thousand dollars in the United States currency and two thousand
Speaker 2: dollars of I guess foreign currency. Is it your sense
Speaker 2: that this is something that he did completely without any
Speaker 2: sort of assistance, either before or after, or do you
Speaker 2: think there might be more people involved?
Speaker 3: Well, let me let me start by saying this, and
Speaker 3: also to partially I realized it didn't fully answer your question.
Speaker 3: Your first question, and that is I have focused my
Speaker 3: work on individuals that are quite grandiose and are attention seekers,
Speaker 3: and so I'm talking about in the case of you know, Dave,
Speaker 3: you mentioned David Berkowitz, the infamous son of Sam serial killer.
Speaker 3: He was a very much an attention seeker. He had
Speaker 3: an agenda. He wanted to terrorize New York City. I
Speaker 3: also spent a long time corresponding interviewing someone by the
Speaker 3: name of Dennis Raider, and your audience may know him.
Speaker 3: Dennis Raider called himself buying torture kill or BDK, because
Speaker 3: that's what he did as a serial killer to his victims.
Speaker 3: And he was, if anything, even more narcissistic and grandios.
Speaker 3: He went to the extent of writing to the media
Speaker 3: and law enforcement and saying, how many people do I
Speaker 3: have to effing kill before I get a little notoriety
Speaker 3: around here? So that's how grandiose he is. And I
Speaker 3: say is because he is still alive as well in
Speaker 3: locked away in solitary confinement. But bringing it to Mangione,
Speaker 3: he is also I believe someone who is very grandiose
Speaker 3: and narcissistic is very interesting. He apparently was an admirer
Speaker 3: and devote even of Ted Kaczynski, the infamous unibomber, and
Speaker 3: the Unibomber was very much an anarchist for decades. He
Speaker 3: saw himself, I think as an agent of change, wanting
Speaker 3: to wanting to reset the system and change our morality,
Speaker 3: change our value system away from the technology that he saw,
Speaker 3: you know, destroying the world. And I think that man
Speaker 3: Joni is very much cut out of that cloth, and
Speaker 3: that's why he admired the unibomber. I think he sees
Speaker 3: himself as an agent of change and an and an
Speaker 3: anarchist and someone who is making a statement, and in
Speaker 3: his case, it seems to be you know, an anger
Speaker 3: and frustration with the healthcare system in the United States. Now,
Speaker 3: a lot of people have frustrations with the healthcare system,
Speaker 3: but they don't take it to the extent of killing
Speaker 3: the CEO of the fifth largest the company in the
Speaker 3: you know, in the United States. But I do think
Speaker 3: that he is grandiose. I do think that he is
Speaker 3: narcissistic and very much sees himself as almost like a vigilante,
Speaker 3: almost like a batman sort of of character, you know,
Speaker 3: breaking the law for what he thinks is a higher
Speaker 3: purpose and goal, which is changing society and making health
Speaker 3: care more affordable and available to everyone.
Speaker 2: He also had that outburst yesterday as he was being
Speaker 2: led into the court in Altoona, Pennsylvania.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, which which was a little you know, it
Speaker 3: did it didn't make a whole lot of sense. You know,
Speaker 3: he was ranting, you know, but it's a little unclear
Speaker 3: exactly what he was saying. So, but put to your
Speaker 3: point into your question, I think that he over the
Speaker 3: last couple of years, he increasingly isolated, you know, he
Speaker 3: separated from his job, he separated from his friends, and
Speaker 3: then he went off the radar completely even with his
Speaker 3: own family in the last six months or so. So
Speaker 3: this is a guy who I think may have been
Speaker 3: slowly losing his grip on reality. There may be some
Speaker 3: you know, some real serious underlying, you know, mental health
Speaker 3: issues there. That's of course yet to be determined. But
Speaker 3: but the way he isolated himself is an indication of that.
Speaker 3: And I do think he acted alone. I don't think
Speaker 3: I don't think he had partners in this. I don't
Speaker 3: think that there's any grand conspiracy or cult or anything
Speaker 3: like that.
Speaker 2: That's that's fair. The other thing what you wanted to
Speaker 2: mention when you when you were comparing him to Kosinski
Speaker 2: both Ivy League graduates.
Speaker 3: That's right. Highly these are super intelligent guys, super intelligent guys,
Speaker 3: highly educated. Ivy league educated, as you said, so there
Speaker 3: are some interesting parallels there. I mean, Kavinski came from
Speaker 3: a you know, like a working class background, whereas man
Speaker 3: Joni came from a you know, a fairly up you know, upscale,
Speaker 3: well to do family. But but in terms of their
Speaker 3: education and their their intelligence, you know, very very similar.
Speaker 3: And you know, I believe I wouldn't be all surprised,
Speaker 3: you know that there. Of course, they are going to
Speaker 3: be forensic psychologists that are going to do batteries of
Speaker 3: tests on this guy, and I wouldn't at all be
Speaker 3: surprised to find out that he has paranoid you know,
Speaker 3: delusions of grandeur and paranoid tendencies.
Speaker 2: Well the other the other thing which I think is
Speaker 2: important to mention. And then just as as the lawyer here,
Speaker 2: I have to jump in a insanity defense in this
Speaker 2: case is going to be very difficult because this guy
Speaker 2: knew exactly what he was doing, and you cannot just
Speaker 2: say the standard is not well, that what that guy
Speaker 2: did was crazy, because obviously a lot of these cases
Speaker 2: what they do are crazy, But the question is was
Speaker 2: he unable? In order to mount to successful insanity defense,
Speaker 2: a lawyer has to prove that the client, that defendant
Speaker 2: was unable to distinguish between.
Speaker 3: Right and wrong, and not only not only that, but
Speaker 3: at the exact moment that he did it, not five
Speaker 3: minutes before or five minutes after, at that exact moment.
Speaker 3: And as you say, that's a very very difficult bar.
Speaker 2: To way, but particularly in this case where apparently he
Speaker 2: had some sort of a manifesto in which absolutely to
Speaker 2: the FBI. Look, you know what I did, I know
Speaker 2: was wrong, but it had sort of I'm paraphrasing here,
Speaker 2: and he didn't want to inconvenience and he's sorry for
Speaker 2: whatever he did. So look, I think that this is
Speaker 2: as as Look, I'm a lawyer. I understand that people
Speaker 2: are innocent and to proof and guilty. I get that concept. Okay.
Speaker 2: In my time as a Tellvision reporter, I'm proud to
Speaker 2: say that was able to prove the innocence of four
Speaker 2: men who had spent one hundred and nine years in
Speaker 2: prison for murder. They had nothing to do with my
Speaker 2: proudest moment as a television reporter. And but but I
Speaker 2: do look at this, and the presumption of innocence goes
Speaker 2: so far. Yeah, yeah, talk show host, Okay, Yeah, let
Speaker 2: me do this, my guess is doctor Scott Bonn. Again.
Speaker 2: You can check out his website. Interesting gentlemen, Doc Bonn
Speaker 2: DC bo n n dot com. Let's talk a little
Speaker 2: bit again. I know that this is not the specific
Speaker 2: area of your expertise, but I'm going to invite people
Speaker 2: to join the conversation as we did a couple of
Speaker 2: months ago, if you want to ask any questions about
Speaker 2: some of the horrific serial killers that we have come
Speaker 2: to know over the years. Uh. Doctor Bonn has had
Speaker 2: in many cases face to face interaction and has studied
Speaker 2: their lives, so we'll talk about some of them. My
Speaker 2: question is I wonder if this was the end of
Speaker 2: it for this guy. And I'm gonna leave this question
Speaker 2: hanging for the break. We call it a tease, Doctor Barne.
Speaker 2: You know exactly what I'm what I'm talking about. Is
Speaker 2: it your sense that if this fellow had gone undetected,
Speaker 2: if there had not been a visual photograph that was
Speaker 2: released which allowed someone in that McDonald's in Altoona, Pennsylvania
Speaker 2: to notice him and identify him, is it your sense
Speaker 2: that this might have been one a one and done
Speaker 2: with this guy?
Speaker 3: Or you know, it's a great question. You know it's
Speaker 3: really a great question.
Speaker 2: I hold your answer until after the break. Okay, Oh
Speaker 2: that's Okay're gonna hold you. That's what's called the teas,
Speaker 2: and we'll take a quick break here. My guest is
Speaker 2: doctor Scott Bonne. If you'd like to join the conversation
Speaker 2: and ask your great questions six one, seven, two, five,
Speaker 2: four ten thirty six one seven, nine, three one ten thirty.
Speaker 2: You may never be able to speak with a serial
Speaker 2: killer in your entire life, but you can speak to
Speaker 2: someone who has studied serial killer and who has understood
Speaker 2: the mind of serial killers and has actually met face
Speaker 2: to face and talked at length with some of these
Speaker 2: serial killers. I'm delighted to have Scott Bond with us tonight.
Speaker 2: This was scheduled in advance by the way of what
Speaker 2: happened last Wednesday morning in New York City. Uh, but
Speaker 2: for us, it is a very opportune time for us
Speaker 2: to speak with Scott Bond, and I hope you will
Speaker 2: join us. Coming back on.
Speaker 1: Nightside Now back to Dan Ray Mine from the Window
Speaker 1: World night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2: Yes, we are in the Window World to night Side Studios,
Speaker 2: and we're talking with doctor Scott Bond doc bonn dot
Speaker 2: com if you'd like to check him out. I taught
Speaker 2: at the University of Miami's had a career in television,
Speaker 2: and now he has well he's studying serial killers. So
Speaker 2: my question, again, this is a question we'll never know
Speaker 2: the actual answer to, but from your perspective, with your expertise,
Speaker 2: do you think that us Luigi Mangioni that this was
Speaker 2: going to be the only hit that he was going
Speaker 2: to carry out, or do you think if somehow he
Speaker 2: remained undetected he might have done it? Again?
Speaker 3: Great, great, great question, And I had some change, a
Speaker 3: little time to think about it there during the during
Speaker 3: the break, which I appreciate. And so here are my thoughts.
Speaker 3: Number One, the reason that he's in custody right now
Speaker 3: is because he made a mistake. It looks like he
Speaker 3: planned this pretty carefully, but he did make a mistake
Speaker 3: by lowering his mask at the hostel there in New
Speaker 3: York that he checked into, and they had him on
Speaker 3: the camera and that's how the McDonald's worker was able
Speaker 3: to identify him. Now when they when they got him
Speaker 3: there at McDonald's, they found him buried in depth doing
Speaker 3: research on his computer. And based upon what he was
Speaker 3: doing on that computer at that time may help to
Speaker 3: answer that question. He may have been doing research on
Speaker 3: the next CEO. He may have been researching the architecture
Speaker 3: of a particular building that he was looking to you
Speaker 3: to infiltrate. Because he obviously did extensive research to figure
Speaker 3: out where his victim in New York would be at
Speaker 3: exactly six thirty in the morning and not the main
Speaker 3: entrance to the Hilton. He knew that he was going
Speaker 3: to come in through the side door. Now how did
Speaker 3: he do that? How did he do that? How did
Speaker 3: he know that? He did extensive research, so when they accessor.
Speaker 2: Or doctor bond, he was able to get access to
Speaker 2: inside information, either voluntarily released or somehow he was able
Speaker 2: to hack into something.
Speaker 3: Because you're right exactly, that's my point. That's my point.
Speaker 3: He did his research, he did his planning. This guy
Speaker 3: is a planner. This was no impulse kill, which again
Speaker 3: gets to his premeditation and the likelihood that he's going
Speaker 3: to be able to use an insanity is almost nil.
Speaker 3: Like like you said, but back to back to his
Speaker 3: possibility possible career as a as a killer. They're going
Speaker 3: to they're going to find out a lot by digging
Speaker 3: into that computer and into his files and see what
Speaker 3: he was doing. Now at the time they apprehended him,
Speaker 3: as you said, eight thousand dollars in US cash and
Speaker 3: also foreign cash. What was he planning to do with that?
Speaker 3: Was he planning to get out of the country and
Speaker 3: escape or was he planning his next potentially his next victim.
Speaker 3: He still had his gun. That's interesting. Wouldn't you want
Speaker 3: to get rid of a gun if it was a
Speaker 3: one off and you didn't want to be connected to it.
Speaker 3: But he still had his gun, so that may indicate
Speaker 3: that he did have additional plan.
Speaker 2: So I also think the comment is that that you
Speaker 2: made about him being narcissistic and if he did have
Speaker 2: a warm spot in his heart for Ted Kazinski. Ted
Speaker 2: Kazinski was able to inflict damage and death remotely for years,
Speaker 2: for years years, So if he really was a devilte
Speaker 2: of Kazinski, what a what a I guess history he
Speaker 2: could see himself. Potentially he could be moving around the
Speaker 2: country and hitting more than one target. Is really what.
Speaker 3: Without a doubt and without a doubt, and bringing it
Speaker 3: back to serial killers, there is a serial killers are
Speaker 3: not one size fits all. As we discussed I think
Speaker 3: during our last conversation, they have different motivations and they
Speaker 3: fall into different categories. There happens to be a category
Speaker 3: of serial killer known as a mission killer. And this
Speaker 3: is a serial killer who has defined a particular type
Speaker 3: of target or category that they believe it's necessary to eliminate.
Speaker 3: And I'm going to give you an example. I was
Speaker 3: in Miami when Andrew Cananan shot Conti Versace and that
Speaker 3: turned that city upside down. Andrew kananmen they determined, was
Speaker 3: a serial killer who was targeting older, very affluent, prominent
Speaker 3: gay men because he feels that he felt that he
Speaker 3: had been thrown away by these men. He was a
Speaker 3: boy toy, so to speak, and he was angry at
Speaker 3: these older gay men. So we potentially, potentially, and it
Speaker 3: makes for interesting conversation, have a budding mission killer of
Speaker 3: CEOs or the those that he sees as exploiting America
Speaker 3: and taking advantage of the of the sicken and individuals
Speaker 3: suffering and pain and at.
Speaker 2: All and his the guy he admired Kazinsky, had a mission.
Speaker 2: He was a mission killer as well. All right, my
Speaker 2: guest is doctor Scott Bond. We will take a break.
Speaker 2: We're going to go right to phone calls. I got
Speaker 2: Vinnie and Sheldon and Paul and Marty. Bring it on
Speaker 2: with coming back on night Side, the only one line
Speaker 2: open six.
Speaker 1: You're on night Side with Dan Ray. I'm Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2: Scott Bone. Let's get to phone calls. They're waiting for you.
Speaker 3: Okay, you're ready, all right, all right, let's go.
Speaker 2: Let's go to Vinnie in nine. Vinnie first this hour
Speaker 2: with doctor Scott do expert on serial killers, but we're
Speaker 2: also talking about Luigi MANSI going to go ahead, Vinnie.
Speaker 4: So, Dan, thank you for inviting me as your guest
Speaker 4: on your show, My doctor. Thank you for your time.
Speaker 4: I want to make it clear that the reason why
Speaker 4: I'm so into Sierra Tillersn't detective work is because I
Speaker 4: deeply respect good police work, and I deeply believe that
Speaker 4: if you hurt someone, you need to be held a
Speaker 4: common Please just stand me out and just just humor me.
Speaker 4: Just stand me out. We talk about narcissippim, talk about
Speaker 4: no feeling for the other person. You're talking about serial
Speaker 4: killers being saved. For example, the typical serial killer kills
Speaker 4: many people. I'm wondering if with your expertise and the
Speaker 4: checkboxes that you need to check. If you put the
Speaker 4: CEO in your analyzation, would he become a serial killer
Speaker 4: whereas he neglected and he used, in my opinion blarstening
Speaker 4: to take their money and not fulfill the contract. And
Speaker 4: would he have continued to be responsible for more people's death.
Speaker 2: By the way, video, I think that your analysis is,
Speaker 2: in my opinion, is pretty perverted. But let's see what
Speaker 2: doctor Vaughn says. Okay, I mean so.
Speaker 3: I'm just trying to understand what the listener is doing here.
Speaker 3: That listeners trying to put the victim in the in
Speaker 3: the in the role of a serial killer. Get comparing
Speaker 3: him to a serial killers.
Speaker 4: Exactly what he's doing, right, Vinnie in Yer?
Speaker 5: In general?
Speaker 2: In general? Yeah, specific, but in general. Go ahead, go ahead,
Speaker 2: doctor bunk Well.
Speaker 3: I think I think that's I have to say. I
Speaker 3: think that's palace and immoral. You know what you're what
Speaker 3: you're saying, this individual was murdered. Now, you may have
Speaker 3: issues with the healthcare system in the United States. I
Speaker 3: have some issues with the healthcare, but that certainly does
Speaker 3: not give me you or MANNGIONI the right to kill
Speaker 3: another person. So no, I think you're completely off base.
Speaker 2: Bye way, by your theory, you know, about thirty thousand
Speaker 2: people die in automobile accidents every year. So by your theory,
Speaker 2: I guess every CEO of General Motors, Ford and all
Speaker 2: the other uh, you know companies, they should be next.
Speaker 3: I mean, come on, Vin, and you're you're you're saying,
Speaker 3: you're saying that he's a serial killer where an individual
Speaker 3: is directly responsible for taking another person's life. And what
Speaker 3: you're you're trying to say that he's that the victim
Speaker 3: here is a serial killer because people in the United
Speaker 3: States die. I mean, that's just that you talk about,
Speaker 3: uh a manufactured reality. It's just it's it's not even
Speaker 3: close to being real.
Speaker 2: But Vinnie, I appreciate your point of view, and I'm
Speaker 2: going to move on because I think we're beating you
Speaker 2: up quite a bit. Have a great knight, Vinnie. Both
Speaker 2: the killers sleep well. Vinnie, thanks very much.
Speaker 3: If you got Paul to be a little sorry to
Speaker 3: be a little emphatic there, but I just think that that,
Speaker 3: oh I was, I.
Speaker 2: Was equally emphatic and U I like to think I
Speaker 2: set the tone. Paul, you're next. Paul's and Pencilvan, I
Speaker 2: want to.
Speaker 5: Assure your gifts. The doctor of very Chrystmas, you know
Speaker 5: your advance and likewise to you, yeah, oh yeah. I
Speaker 5: personally think the turned narcissists to throw around to watch.
Speaker 5: I forget what the one doctor's name is the order
Speaker 5: book heres Ago, he said, narcissist is a term used
Speaker 5: by a therapist to the fight a patient who's uh,
Speaker 5: who loves himself for they loved their therapists. But my
Speaker 5: question for you is, doctor is this uh?
Speaker 3: I remember.
Speaker 5: That what that Bradfield and that uh doctor j Smith.
Speaker 5: I read that book by Joseph Wambayer's Ago that Goes
Speaker 5: in the Darkness. That's the most frightening book I ever
Speaker 5: read about any kind of true crime. And Bradfield convict
Speaker 5: them he got life and he died in prison. And
Speaker 5: uh Smith was Smith was on actually got the death
Speaker 5: penalty and he was on death row. He got out
Speaker 5: a technicality and he uh and and the state of framemnity,
Speaker 5: everything overturned. And that that's one of the most frightening
Speaker 5: cases I ever thought of or even read about. And
Speaker 5: my question for the doctors if he ever was familiar
Speaker 5: in that case, I'm not I can't. I can't say
Speaker 5: that I know the specifics of it. I I know
Speaker 5: it just generally, so I can't really comment specifically on it.
Speaker 5: I'm sorry. I have one and I have one question
Speaker 5: for the doctor. Was there he was taught me this book.
Speaker 5: Was there was there one person that he was actually
Speaker 5: in a role with that he just couldn't even want
Speaker 5: to be in the role with them to actually win
Speaker 5: a skin crawl? Was that bad? Even though he well.
Speaker 2: That's good. Yeah, Well let's get the doctor to respond.
Speaker 3: Go ahead, doctor, that's a great question. That's a great question.
Speaker 3: And the individual who probably gave me the creeps more
Speaker 3: than any other, and in fact I wasn't fortunately, I
Speaker 3: wasn't even able to be in the same room with
Speaker 3: him because he's locked away in solitary confinement. But if
Speaker 3: we're talking about Dennis Raider, in which it taught Kansas,
Speaker 3: who gave himself the term buying torture kill, he gave
Speaker 3: himself that name very grandiose. And the reason that I
Speaker 3: say that is he he said probably the most chilling
Speaker 3: thing that that I've ever heard to me, and and
Speaker 3: that is his first murders, in fact, the killing of
Speaker 3: a family of four, a Latino family. He was obsessed
Speaker 3: and had a fetish for Spanish women, and he wanted
Speaker 3: to kill for his first murders a mother and daughter. Well,
Speaker 3: when he got over to the house that morning, and
Speaker 3: even despite all his meticulous planning, he made a mistake
Speaker 3: and mom, dad, Josephine, the little girl that he coveted,
Speaker 3: and a little brother were home. So what did he do?
Speaker 3: He took his time, He conned them into thinking he
Speaker 3: was there to just rob them. They complied, He tied
Speaker 3: them up, and then he became buying torture kill, and
Speaker 3: he horrifically tortured and killed the parents in front of
Speaker 3: the children. He saved little Josephine for last, who was
Speaker 3: his prize, and he had planned this out a thousand
Speaker 3: times in his mind. He took Josephine into the basement.
Speaker 3: He calmly placed the noose around her neck that he
Speaker 3: had brought with him, hoisted her up into the ceiling
Speaker 3: beams in the basement, and he let her dangle there
Speaker 3: and die. And he even pulled a chair her up
Speaker 3: to her face to face so he could feel her
Speaker 3: final breaths choking her life on his face. And we said, why, oh,
Speaker 3: why would you do this to this little girl? And
Speaker 3: here here was his response. He said to me, I
Speaker 3: am a movie director. I'm Steven Spielberg. I directed that
Speaker 3: scene with Joseph Beene one thousand times in my mind,
Speaker 3: and when she died it was the most thrilling project
Speaker 3: of my life. And when I saw the light in
Speaker 3: her eyes go dark, I knew that I was God.
Speaker 5: I just twist the doctor. I just twisted.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: But okay, nice guys, like I said, I'm happy you
Speaker 5: know you're in a very Christmas book. The great shows
Speaker 5: that likewise to you.
Speaker 3: Thank you, right back at you.
Speaker 2: Okay, let me get one more in here before the break.
Speaker 2: Let me go to Sheldon in Boston, Massachusetts. Sheldon, you're
Speaker 2: next on Night That with doctor Scott Bond. Go right ahead, Sheldon.
Speaker 4: All right, it's a second on a call.
Speaker 6: I saw something online on the radio that the shooter's
Speaker 6: family was in the nursing home business and that, uh,
Speaker 6: the person he killed was buying up nursing homes and
Speaker 6: destroying them. Did you hear anything about that?
Speaker 2: I had heard, Sheldon, that the that the Minchioni family
Speaker 2: had owned some real estate, some properties. I think they
Speaker 2: owned a golf course or two, and and that they
Speaker 2: owned a radio station in Maryland. If they did own
Speaker 2: nursing homes, I am unfamiliar with it. Maybe someone else
Speaker 2: has heard that, but it was it seemed to be
Speaker 2: to be property. Actually. I think one one of the
Speaker 2: places was describ rived as a sort of a not
Speaker 2: a retirement community, but it was an upscale place where
Speaker 2: people would go. Let me, let me see if doctor
Speaker 2: Vaughan has anything on that. Doctor Vaughan, I don't know that.
Speaker 3: That doesn't ring a bell. I hadn't heard anything about
Speaker 3: the family owning or being involved with nursing homes.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Most of the most of the speculation Sheldon has
Speaker 2: been that this guy had suffered an injury, uh maybe
Speaker 2: even while surfing in Hawaii back problem, and that I
Speaker 2: think he had some uh some screws in his back.
Speaker 2: I also think he had a few screws loose. To
Speaker 2: be honest with you.
Speaker 3: He did absolutely. I saw his uh X rays in
Speaker 3: the in the media, and he had you know, some
Speaker 3: massive implants down in his at the base of his
Speaker 3: spine to to stabilize and apparently he was in you know,
Speaker 3: tremendous pain and uh bring and also numbness in his legs.
Speaker 3: But you know again that while that is a very
Speaker 3: unfortunate thing for a young man to have to deal with,
Speaker 3: and it's and it's uh, you know, it's it's it's
Speaker 3: sad if I know means his cart blanche to uh,
Speaker 3: you know, take some of his wife.
Speaker 2: No question, all right, Sheldon. If we find out more
Speaker 2: about it, we'll talk about it. I promise, Thank you, Sheldon.
Speaker 2: I think we lost him there. Back on Nightside with
Speaker 2: my guest, doctor Scott Bonn. I got a couple of
Speaker 2: lines six one seven, two, five, four, ten thirty and
Speaker 2: one at six one seven ninety going to talk with
Speaker 2: Marty and Paul coming up on here on Nightside and
Speaker 2: maybe have some room for you. Give us a call.
Speaker 1: Now Back to Dan Ray live from the Window World
Speaker 1: night Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2: My guest is doctor Scott Bonn. He's an expert. He's
Speaker 2: a criminologist from a college professor at the University of Miami.
Speaker 2: He now the State shows on the materials. I also
Speaker 2: worked for many years for NBC in New York. Let
Speaker 2: me go next to Marty and Florida. Marty you next
Speaker 2: on Nightside, Go.
Speaker 4: Right ahead, well, first of all, I want to compliment
Speaker 4: you Dan another home run program. I just want to
Speaker 4: mention that there was a program, rather a series that
Speaker 4: MGM put out in the forties, half hour series called
Speaker 4: Crime Does Not Play. It's on disc now and I
Speaker 4: think a lot of people should watch that because I'm
Speaker 4: looking from the perspective of a former law enforcement The
Speaker 4: crime itself was unbelievably sloppy, and I think the bottom
Speaker 4: line is that this killer caused a lot of grief
Speaker 4: to an innocent person's family. One thing that came out
Speaker 4: of this which was good is it showed the resources
Speaker 4: of the modern police today, like he's searching Central Park
Speaker 4: using drones, and it's like it's a message to any
Speaker 4: would be killers out there, You're going to get caught fast.
Speaker 4: But it was a little bit of a role reversal
Speaker 4: because I understand that the people who recognize this killer
Speaker 4: at the McDonald's and Altoona, now somebody's looking at them
Speaker 4: as they were finks. Then at thinks they did what
Speaker 4: they were supposed to do.
Speaker 2: They were absolutely Marty. Do you get it? You have
Speaker 2: a question for my.
Speaker 7: Guest, Okay, the question is this, you know, I forgot
Speaker 7: what the question is but anyway, I just want to
Speaker 7: compliment you, compliment the doctor, and thanks for another good show.
Speaker 2: Thanks so much, Marty, appreciate it very much. Thanks. Six
Speaker 2: point eight nine thirty. Paul is in Plymouth, Go ahead,
Speaker 2: was that you doctor Bonnet trying to say something? I apologize? Well,
Speaker 2: I believe, Okay, dodgeable.
Speaker 3: I would I'd just like to interject I really respect
Speaker 3: with a uh this uh the last caller said. And
Speaker 3: you know, sadly we kind of lived in an upside
Speaker 3: down world where people are you know, attempting to glorify
Speaker 3: and make a hero out of this uh you know
Speaker 3: man GEONI character, you know, assuming that he is the killer,
Speaker 3: and it certainly looks like like it's all things are
Speaker 3: in that direction, and you know he's the He's the
Speaker 3: last person who deserves to be lionized or or glorified
Speaker 3: in any way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and and and you have never lionized these people.
Speaker 2: You've you've always felt from you know, that that they
Speaker 2: need to be studied.
Speaker 3: But yeah, absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 2: That's so that we can figure out how we can
Speaker 2: you know, basically prevent these uh, these sort of repetitive actions.
Speaker 2: Let me go to Paul in Plymouth, Paul, you're next
Speaker 2: time nice. I would talk to Scott pa and go ahead, Paul.
Speaker 4: Well, even even Don Capaun and I will I will say,
Speaker 4: I won't lie ize this. Uh, I would call him
Speaker 4: a sophisticated puke and I would say, I'm just wondering,
Speaker 4: you know, with this man's education and so on, and
Speaker 4: he's an admirer of Ted Kaczinski. You had touched on
Speaker 4: something earlier. How do we know he doesn't have something
Speaker 4: bigger in the works. Maybe he's already got some sort
Speaker 4: of automated thing that's going to kick off, and who
Speaker 4: knows what it would be. But anyways, I just thought
Speaker 4: i'd ask, I ask you to touch on that because
Speaker 4: I found that very interesting.
Speaker 3: Well, I certainly hope that that's not the case, you know,
Speaker 3: I mean, any anything is possible, and certainly I hope
Speaker 3: that there is not something already you know, mechanized or
Speaker 3: in place that that that could unwrapped, roll out and
Speaker 3: take place even with his capture. But we are going
Speaker 3: to learn more, you know, this is this is far
Speaker 3: from over, you know, I think we are going to
Speaker 3: get much more information about his intent, his plans, and
Speaker 3: if there was a more long term plan and if
Speaker 3: he was in you know, for example, planning to become
Speaker 3: a mission killer of healthcare uh CEOs for example, or
Speaker 3: or influential people in the healthcare field. I think we're
Speaker 3: going to learn more about it. We definitely will, particularly
Speaker 3: when they are able to crack up in his uh
Speaker 3: his his computer. Apparently he has it all encrypted and
Speaker 3: and he is a you know, computer expert. So it's
Speaker 3: gonna take a little while, but we are going to
Speaker 3: learn more. And I but I certainly hope that the
Speaker 3: uh you know, that worst case scenario is not is
Speaker 3: not the case.
Speaker 5: Well, I certainly hopefully do.
Speaker 4: Good evening, gentlemen, Thank you, thank you very much.
Speaker 2: I appreciate you call. Have a great night, doctor Bond.
Speaker 2: You happen to have picked a u a subject that
Speaker 2: I think everybody is interested in. And I thank you
Speaker 2: for your time tonight. Tell us a little bit if
Speaker 2: I can, in the last minute or so that we have.
Speaker 2: You are already getting back out on the road. You
Speaker 2: appear publicly, you talk to people in various venues. Tell
Speaker 2: us just a little bit about what's coming up in
Speaker 2: the next year.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, and I really really appreciate that. So, yes,
Speaker 3: I am currently involved in a national tour, and my
Speaker 3: show is called serial Killers with Doctor Scott Bond. It's
Speaker 3: a one man live show appearing in theaters or around
Speaker 3: the country. And in this show, I take people inside
Speaker 3: the minds of some of the most diabolical characters of
Speaker 3: all time, and some of whom we've discussed here this evening,
Speaker 3: for example, Ivid Berkowitz, the son of Sam Dennis Raider,
Speaker 3: the BTT killer, and also the Long Islands serial killer.
Speaker 3: I was very involved in profiling that unknown killer back
Speaker 3: in twenty and eleven and my profile, it turned out,
Speaker 3: when they arrested Rex Huerman last July and charged him
Speaker 3: with those murders or a number of the murders in
Speaker 3: the Long Island case, my profile prove proved to be
Speaker 3: one hundred percent accurate, which I was happy, but I
Speaker 3: was also glad that they finally apprehended someone. So I
Speaker 3: take people inside the minds of these individuals. We do
Speaker 3: a live Q and a session kind of like what
Speaker 3: we're doing here this evening, and I take questions from
Speaker 3: the audience, which is always the highlight of the show,
Speaker 3: and I you know, it's educational, it's informative, but it's
Speaker 3: also designed to you know, be entertaining and exhilarating and
Speaker 3: fun and and you know, fund from the extandpoint of
Speaker 3: of you know, drawing some some conclusions and closure, and
Speaker 3: I try to send the audience away with a sense
Speaker 3: of safety. Were realizing that you know, these individuals as
Speaker 3: heinous as they are there, they are very very few
Speaker 3: and far between, and they are on the decline. Serial
Speaker 3: killers are on the decline for a number of reasons
Speaker 3: that I discussed Jean.
Speaker 2: That give me the topic of our next show. So look,
Speaker 2: thank you so much, Doctor Baughan enjoyed it very much.
Speaker 2: I want to thank the questions were pretty good. Vinnie
Speaker 2: was a little shaky, but the others were fine. And well,
Speaker 2: we will have you on again. And I so much
Speaker 2: appreciate you taking the time to spend time with my audience.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, absolutely, thank you.
Speaker 2: And folks can get information at his website which is
Speaker 2: doc Bonn DC bo n n dot com. Check them out.
Speaker 2: I think you'll find it interesting coming to it to
Speaker 2: an area, to a theater near you at not in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. Thanks thanks Scott, very very much, appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Absolutely All right, we get back.
Speaker 2: We're going to talk about these mysterious drones over the
Speaker 2: state of New Jersey. New Jersey Callers, I want to
Speaker 2: know what's going on down there. We're coming back on Nightside.