Speaker 1: Welcome everybody to another episode of Hard Trews podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: your host, Ashton Forbes, and today I have a very
Speaker 1: special guest, doctor John Brandenburg. He's a plasma physicist. He's
Speaker 1: been well known in the UFO communities for his opinions
Speaker 1: and as physics and science around the potential nuking of Mars.
Speaker 1: Today we're going to talk about gem unification theory. We're
Speaker 1: gonna talk about quantum mechanics, plasma aliens, Mars everything. John Brandenburg,
Speaker 1: thank you very much for joining me today.
Speaker 2: It's a great pleasure and honor to be on your show,
Speaker 2: ash to be talking to you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and let's just start right away. I want to
Speaker 1: dig into the secret science, government and stuff. Tell us
Speaker 1: a little bit about your background in terms of your
Speaker 1: connections to the government, any defense contractors or any contract
Speaker 1: work that you've been doing in your life.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, well, I kind of became part of the
Speaker 2: defense research establishment back in when I was getting my PhD.
Speaker 2: I did it at Lawrence Littlemore National Lab. I had
Speaker 2: acute clearance. Then I went from there to another Lawrence
Speaker 2: little More Lab is a lab doing energy experiments and
Speaker 2: then also they designed hydrogen bombs on the other end
Speaker 2: of the lab, and I worked at both ends. Then
Speaker 2: I went to Sanda National Labs, another nuclear weapons lab,
Speaker 2: and worked on directed energy weapons. There. I didn't work
Speaker 2: directly on nuclear weapons, but I picked up a lot
Speaker 2: of knowledge. They were kind of always trying to recruit
Speaker 2: me and get me interested in it, and so they
Speaker 2: told me a lot of stuff and which I had
Speaker 2: a clearance for years a time. Okay. Oh. I started
Speaker 2: there in nineteen seventy five and I finished my PhD
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty one. Then I went to Sandia National
Speaker 2: Labs and worked there till about nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 1: So you know we had directed energy weapons back in
Speaker 1: the eighties.
Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely, absolutely, it was. It was a big program
Speaker 2: at Livermore and at San die.
Speaker 1: Do you think they can shoot them off of satellites
Speaker 1: or what do you think the way? Do you think
Speaker 1: these were connected to these directed energy weapons?
Speaker 2: The directed energy weapons, we worked with the electron beam
Speaker 2: weapons and we were focused on shooting downs basically just missiles.
Speaker 2: It was very it was very tactical. It was the
Speaker 2: idea of protecting ships, you know, like aircraft carriers from
Speaker 2: cruise missiles and electron beam hits. A lot harder than
Speaker 2: a laser. You hit something with a laser, most of
Speaker 2: the energy just bounces off and reflects, but the electron
Speaker 2: beam would go right through it. And so we hey
Speaker 2: and I thought I did a really good job. I
Speaker 2: saved the project at San die But the politics was
Speaker 2: such that I violated procedures when I saved the project
Speaker 2: by contradicting one of my management and so my reward
Speaker 2: was basically, they said, we don't want you to work
Speaker 2: here anymore. I don't you go someplace else, And so
Speaker 2: I did. I went to Mission Research Corporation in Washington,
Speaker 2: d C. Which was then part of the Reagan Arms
Speaker 2: build up the Star Wars. So then I went to Washington,
Speaker 2: D C. And I had a top secret clearance and
Speaker 2: worked with the Pentagon and the Intel agencies on basically
Speaker 2: space plasma type applications. I worked on fusion energy also.
Speaker 1: And you're hitting a lot of topics I want to
Speaker 1: talk about. First of all, I need to understand this
Speaker 1: concept of Q clearance. I've heard this mentioned all the time.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I related to energy or what is clear
Speaker 1: heard that q.
Speaker 2: Q clearance is specifically, it's a Department of Energy clearance
Speaker 2: related to knowledge of how nuclear weapons work and what
Speaker 2: their effects are, and you know, it's like it's you know,
Speaker 2: the Q clearance is just kind of an entry level.
Speaker 2: It's it's equivalent to the military top secret clearance, which
Speaker 2: I when I left San Dia Labs, they simply just
Speaker 2: transferred by clearance from being a Q clearance to being
Speaker 2: a top secret clearance with the Pentagon, so I could
Speaker 2: work on on direct energy weapons and space defense.
Speaker 1: You have nbas that you can't talk about certain stuff
Speaker 1: still to this day. I mean that was fifty years ago.
Speaker 2: Not really.
Speaker 1: Do they run out or how did that work?
Speaker 2: Well? The subjects that I worked on are now kind
Speaker 2: of unclassified. There are a few things I'm not supposed
Speaker 2: to talk about, and but those are not Those are
Speaker 2: not big deals, especially in the context of Mars and
Speaker 2: the whole UFO UAP thing. I was never ready into
Speaker 2: those programs. I basically just most of the stuff I
Speaker 2: heard about the UFO UAP thing was around the coffee
Speaker 2: machine and the cooler in these classified facilities where I worked.
Speaker 1: Basically just like work, colleagues and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: Talking absolutely absolutely they would because of my Mars work.
Speaker 2: Everyone was aware that I'd been involved in working on
Speaker 2: a dead civilization on Mars. So people felt free to
Speaker 2: discuss things that they had knew that they knew or
Speaker 2: had heard about UFO prom and it was a frequent
Speaker 2: topic of conversation, especially just before nine to eleven. When
Speaker 2: I was I was working with the agencies of the
Speaker 2: Pentagon in a classified you know, work setting where everything
Speaker 2: we did was classified.
Speaker 1: So you were a contractor when you were working with
Speaker 1: the Pentagon and came back in the nineties then then
Speaker 1: had secret clearance or top secret clians.
Speaker 2: Yes, I was a contractor working for Mission or Search Corporation,
Speaker 2: and I was a private consultant. Then I also worked
Speaker 2: for a company called the Aerospace Corporation. It's the Air
Speaker 2: Force think tank, and they would basically you were considered
Speaker 2: just a staff scientists and they would basically send you
Speaker 2: to sites to work on various problems.
Speaker 1: And really that's how that works. Hold on, that's useful.
Speaker 1: I don't think be able to know that. So Aerospace
Speaker 1: Corporation is a think tank for the Air Force. Yeah,
Speaker 1: would higher on scientists and then just send them to
Speaker 1: go do project works.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and you'd have a security clearance and then
Speaker 2: they would send you to various agencies around town in Washington,
Speaker 2: d C. To work on various projects, and so you
Speaker 2: would there was no there wasn't any working remotely. It
Speaker 2: was all office work inside classified facilities. But my job,
Speaker 2: my badge set Aerospace Corporation, which was a very you know,
Speaker 2: it was a very nondescript kind of name that the
Speaker 2: Air Force had adopted. So what attracted the attention.
Speaker 1: They love their nondescript names, like how you got patent system?
Speaker 1: These people, these spooks, they know how to do it.
Speaker 2: It was all Ashton. It was all pretty spooky, and
Speaker 2: you know, I heard a whole bunch of stuff about
Speaker 2: you know, people were talking quite frankly about UFO kind
Speaker 2: of phenomenon when I was working in these classified facilities.
Speaker 2: And so finally after nine to eleven, Uh yeah, I
Speaker 2: left simply because the money all went for boots and
Speaker 2: bullets in the Afghanistan. And so I took a job
Speaker 2: down in Florida at the Kennedy Space Center, working for
Speaker 2: the Florida Space Institute. And as I at my farewell
Speaker 2: luncheon with a bunch of people the agency, I said,
Speaker 2: you know, I'd always wanted to write some science fiction,
Speaker 2: and I heard a lot of interesting things around the
Speaker 2: water cooler and you know, a coffee machine in the
Speaker 2: hall before and after meetings. I was gonna kind of
Speaker 2: put that all in a science fiction novel. What do
Speaker 2: you think of that? And they, to my surprise, very positive.
Speaker 2: He said, John, we loved your reports. If you write
Speaker 2: a novel, a science fiction novel with all this stuff
Speaker 2: that you heard in there, we'll read it and makes
Speaker 2: just that's fine with us as long as it's labeled
Speaker 2: science fiction. So I made it a science fiction soap opera,
Speaker 2: you know, And and it's Morning Star passed the collapse
Speaker 2: of the UFO cover up. I'd just gone through nine
Speaker 2: to eleven, and one of my bosses commented, were there
Speaker 2: in DC going through nine to eleven? And one of
Speaker 2: my bosses commented, two weeks after it had happened. He said,
Speaker 2: if this could happen, anything could happen. And so my
Speaker 2: in my novel, two women, of course glamorous news anchors
Speaker 2: bring down the UFO cover up and finally, at great
Speaker 2: risks of their lives, and there's an attempted cootie ta
Speaker 2: by the secret government which says the UFO cover up
Speaker 2: is too big to fail. So there's actually a tank
Speaker 2: tank battles in the streets of Washington, d C. At
Speaker 2: Capitol Hill and uh and you know I like it,
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 1: What is there any time travel in it?
Speaker 2: Uh No, there, you know it was. There was a
Speaker 2: flashback or two. But uh no, I'm a I'm not
Speaker 2: a big fan of time travel as a physicist.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: You know, like the second law, therminyamics basically, and the
Speaker 2: expansion of the universe. Those are kind of things that
Speaker 2: determine the the arrow of time. And you can't make
Speaker 2: all the galaxies come back closer together, and by that token,
Speaker 2: then you can't go back in time. And we all
Speaker 2: wish we could go back in time and do things
Speaker 2: a little bit differently than we did. You know, but.
Speaker 1: Have you ever seen these experiments they do where they
Speaker 1: are looking at waves and big pools of water and
Speaker 1: they drop like a rock or a big heavy object
Speaker 1: in there, and they then look at the wave and
Speaker 1: kind of like model out the wave. Well, this is
Speaker 1: the reason why I think that you might be mistaken. Now,
Speaker 1: I've had the same views that you just mentioned on
Speaker 1: time travel. But it looks like there is quote unquote
Speaker 1: a time reversed wave that you can see basically the
Speaker 1: reflection of all waves that occur. And if that's true,
Speaker 1: then yes, you're right. Everything's getting more and more complicated
Speaker 1: spreading apart. But then couldn't you, with a smart enough
Speaker 1: computer or brain, you know, reverse things back to the
Speaker 1: state that they were, or you know, model out where
Speaker 1: they would have been in the past and figure it out.
Speaker 2: Oh, oh, precisely, Ashton. You're intuitive. You're intuitive, and understanding
Speaker 2: is correct. The microscopically, physics is time reversible. It's only
Speaker 2: when you look at the big picture a bunch of
Speaker 2: molecules interacting instead of just like two of them, two
Speaker 2: of them, you can reverse time. But if you have
Speaker 2: a bunch of them, the second law of thermodynamics takes
Speaker 2: over the same way. With the universe. An individual galaxy,
Speaker 2: you think, well, it's just sitting there spinning. You could,
Speaker 2: you know, go back in time. But all of the
Speaker 2: galaxies are spreading apart, and that that gives you a
Speaker 2: definite time sense. But the only times I've ever been
Speaker 2: really wrong about anything, Ashton, is when I said something
Speaker 2: is impossible, so I considered unlike, I considered unlikely but
Speaker 2: not impossible, that they could do time travel. It's a
Speaker 2: great topic for science fiction. I wrote a science fiction
Speaker 2: short story about that, and and the guy went back
Speaker 2: in time and he was trying to witness the birth
Speaker 2: of Jesus and everything everything went wrong. He was arrested
Speaker 2: by a spy by the Romans, and Flogg well, we
Speaker 2: almost died because he missed the time to be there.
Speaker 2: So everything everything went wrong and he ended up being
Speaker 2: stranded back in the past.
Speaker 1: And yeah, there's a lot of paradoxes, especially with going
Speaker 1: in the past, you know. And that's why I think
Speaker 1: that I agree with you that maybe if there is
Speaker 1: a way to manipulate time, it's not going to be
Speaker 1: the science fiction I'm going back to nineteen fifty Evan
Speaker 1: to you know, kill my grandfather and then stop. To me,
Speaker 1: It'll be more of like life extension technology, like the
Speaker 1: ability to reverse a tumor or something like that, and like.
Speaker 2: A local Absolutely, yeah, and I'll mention one thing too there.
Speaker 2: There's a very important piece of physics done by Wheeler
Speaker 2: and Finement. You know, Dick Fyneman, who's got the Nobel
Speaker 2: Prize for Wheeler developed the black hole theory and also
Speaker 2: he helped he engineered the hydrogen Bob. He was in
Speaker 2: charge of actually which bolt, which kind of bolts to use,
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera, and it worked. And but they
Speaker 2: came up with a theory and they found out that
Speaker 2: the future can talk to the past. Yeah, it's so
Speaker 2: there's there's if you ask somebody like me, Okay, can
Speaker 2: you go back into past and kill your grandfather or
Speaker 2: something like that, I would probably say I think that's
Speaker 2: very unlikely. But can you talk to your grandfather in
Speaker 2: the past. Yes, apparently that is that is allowed by physics.
Speaker 2: And this is something ask You've got to realize the
Speaker 2: physics community is almost like a big country club where
Speaker 2: certain things are not discussed. Yeah, scandalous things like the
Speaker 2: affair of the head of the country club with his secretary.
Speaker 2: You know, these things are just not discussed at meetings
Speaker 2: or at the And so that's Wheeler Feinneman theory basically
Speaker 2: says the prophetic knowledge agrees with physics. Like, for instance,
Speaker 2: one of the reason since I decided to write science
Speaker 2: fiction is because I realized science fiction was prophetic so
Speaker 2: many times, yeah that you had to Like, somebody wrote
Speaker 2: this novel called Futility. It didn't sell well with that title,
Speaker 2: but it was about a great, big steamship full of
Speaker 2: rich people traveling across the Atlantic at high speed for
Speaker 2: the first time, runs into an iceberg at sinks with
Speaker 2: massive loss of life. And it was named the titan
Speaker 2: in his novel. And if you look at the measurements
Speaker 2: and the description of the ship, it matches the Titanic
Speaker 2: almost exactly. It was written twelve years before the Titanic disaster.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of predictive programming, and like you know,
Speaker 1: even ben Rich said that everything that you can imagine
Speaker 1: in Star Trek has already been figured out.
Speaker 2: Oh it has. I believe Roddenberry was on the he
Speaker 2: was in the loop. They told him.
Speaker 1: A lot of the things of x files, where x
Speaker 1: files was talking about zero point energy and capabilities as well,
Speaker 1: which I haven't feelings that d not be improven. True,
Speaker 1: it does make you wonder how much of this stuff,
Speaker 1: to your point about the books and the movies and
Speaker 1: the content we consume, is people that are in the
Speaker 1: know and they're writing the stuff under this idea of
Speaker 1: it being fiction, when in reality I'm an example.
Speaker 2: I'm an example of you know. In fact, I joke,
Speaker 2: I said, I am the coolest tool of the US government,
Speaker 2: you know, and that they basically encouraged me to write
Speaker 2: all this stuff about UFOs as science fiction. And I
Speaker 2: ran into some people from the agencies I worked with,
Speaker 2: and they had read the novel and they said, John,
Speaker 2: how did you know all that stuff? You know? And
Speaker 2: I said, well, I just I just guessed a lot
Speaker 2: of it. And they said, well, you're a really lucky guesser.
Speaker 2: And so it's a there's a lot of stuff in
Speaker 2: Hollywood movie science fiction movies that I believe was directly
Speaker 2: provided by the agencies to Hollywood.
Speaker 1: It's comfortable with the idea of this technology and other
Speaker 1: life existing or something more nefarious.
Speaker 2: Oh well, uh, oh well, the ever since World War
Speaker 2: two and and before that, the British Film Board basically
Speaker 2: would use movies as a propaganda tool to prepare like
Speaker 2: they they've they've made.
Speaker 1: They're trying to send you up.
Speaker 2: I think, well they have. They've been trying to bring
Speaker 2: the public up to speed. Believe it or not. Their intent,
Speaker 2: their overarching intention is that certain things will become kind
Speaker 2: of common knowledge, but not certain other things. Uh, you know,
Speaker 2: they like I found out that, for instance, Roswell would
Speaker 2: actually the Roswell incident was a shootdown. It wasn't two
Speaker 2: saucers crashed in the middle of the night. They didn't crash,
Speaker 2: They were shot down apparently, So I wrote a book
Speaker 2: about that.
Speaker 1: What by radar or something else?
Speaker 2: Oh, they were shot down by Uh, they got bit
Speaker 2: by a black Widow, which was the Air Forces night
Speaker 2: fighter at the time. It was a World War two
Speaker 2: night fighter. It was a it was twin piston engine fighter,
Speaker 2: but it had radar in the nose. It had was
Speaker 2: very heavily armed with four twenty milimeter cannons and a
Speaker 2: turd on top with four fifty caliber machine guns in it.
Speaker 2: And the it was only you're the uh, World War two,
Speaker 2: it only ended less than two years before. So we
Speaker 2: had all these veteran crews for these night fighters and
Speaker 2: they were stationed in the Southwest. And according to phil
Speaker 2: of Courso, the when the UFO government, when the UFO
Speaker 2: started having this you know, the flying Saucer original Flying
Speaker 2: Saucer surge, Uh, the Air Force, uh, you know, it
Speaker 2: wasn't the Air Force and it was this Army Air Corps
Speaker 2: concentrated all of its security around Roswell. Do you know
Speaker 2: what was stored at Roswell. All the nucletar weapons on
Speaker 2: Earth were stored at Roswell, along with the bombers to
Speaker 2: carry them. Yeah, so the government was protected. This was
Speaker 2: the first incident of the UFOs zooming in on our
Speaker 2: nucletar weapons stockpile, and the US government. After Pearl Harbor,
Speaker 2: the Battle of the Bulbs, world worked to the death camps.
Speaker 2: It was it was not going to tolerate any anything
Speaker 2: that looked like a threat. So they they had at night,
Speaker 2: these night fighters and apparently they they ambushed two UFOs,
Speaker 2: two saucers over Roswell trying to spy on our nuclear
Speaker 2: weapons and shot him down. One of them Crashedswell.
Speaker 1: You know, let me, I'm gonna play Devil's advocates. I'm skeptical,
Speaker 1: and I grow more and more skeptical of the connection
Speaker 1: between UFOs and nuclear nuclear weapons as time goes on.
Speaker 1: And I'll explain why I've actually was all in on
Speaker 1: this idea before. And Robert Salah, you know, he's I
Speaker 1: think one of the nuclear technicians that says he watched
Speaker 1: his stuff get disabled by the UFOs. Wouldn't nukes just
Speaker 1: be like little child's twice compared to a species that
Speaker 1: has a craft that can there's my phone just float
Speaker 1: like this freely, because according to mainstream physics, there's no
Speaker 1: fuel source that could fit within this UFO make this
Speaker 1: be able to fly off to other solar systems. It
Speaker 1: would just no amount of mass could fit within what
Speaker 1: we see on the in the UFO, and it would
Speaker 1: just make it heavier, and we'll just make it harder.
Speaker 1: So that means they must have an energy source that's
Speaker 1: far beyond nuclear atomic bombs. So why the hell, sorry
Speaker 1: for my part of my French. Why would the aliens
Speaker 1: give a crap about some primitive apes figuring out how
Speaker 1: nukes work.
Speaker 2: Oh, there's a lot of things Ashton about the whole
Speaker 2: UFO experience that don't make a lot of sense until
Speaker 2: you realize that part of this is a display. It's
Speaker 2: it's a psy op operation. Oh here, here's now. I
Speaker 2: absolutely believe that there are alien species out there that
Speaker 2: were not alone in the universe. We found that out
Speaker 2: about bars.
Speaker 1: You know, I mean, the universe is huge, so you
Speaker 1: know you don't have to convince me of that there's
Speaker 1: probably aliens out there somewhere. If we can teleport, then
Speaker 1: aliens can get to us. Really easily as well.
Speaker 2: And they could also be oh yeah, yeah, there's a
Speaker 2: there's what's called the Einstein Rosen Bridge.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so yeah, you can find question is why
Speaker 1: do they care about nukes? Then, if they've got this
Speaker 1: super advanced technology, why they care about nukes? Just give
Speaker 1: me like the top one or two reasons? Oh uh.
Speaker 2: Oh, because nukes use the same power source. That power
Speaker 2: is supernova's and uh yeah, they know that if their
Speaker 2: ship gets hit with a tactical nuke, it will be destroyed.
Speaker 1: And it doesn't from the destructive power.
Speaker 2: Oh, just from the destructive power. Uh ash. You got
Speaker 2: to remember a lot of uh this is uh you know.
Speaker 2: Here's a you know, great white hunter arriving in New
Speaker 2: Guinea and he's standing there in his khakis with his
Speaker 2: rifle and he says, I have a magic bangstick, and
Speaker 2: the natives then pepper him with arrows because he doesn't
Speaker 2: have anybody and he's dead. Funk funk funk. So much
Speaker 2: for white Man's magic. And and but you want to
Speaker 2: create the pretense that your bulletproof. And you'll notice in
Speaker 2: a lot of science fiction movies one of the first
Speaker 2: things that happened is somebody will shoot an alien and
Speaker 2: the alien will fall over dead. This great scene in
Speaker 2: Earth versus the Flying Saucers, once they got outside their
Speaker 2: air their force field, they could be shot just like
Speaker 2: anything else. And and and this agrees with the reports
Speaker 2: from even abductees that sometimes abductees have actually real if
Speaker 2: they're coming and sit there with a gun, and the
Speaker 2: aliens see that and decide not to not to hang around.
Speaker 2: And but you want to keep up the pretense that, oh,
Speaker 2: none of your weapons can hurt me. Fact, there's great.
Speaker 2: There's a scene in the science fiction movie where a
Speaker 2: woman is holding a gun on this guy who's an
Speaker 2: alien and she's he says, can't hurt me, and she
Speaker 2: pulls the trick the phone over Dad.
Speaker 1: Yeah, everybody, And that thing I like is that you know,
Speaker 1: it's they're not invincible. UFO is not invincible alien. But
Speaker 1: we all, we all have to succumb to the physics
Speaker 1: of this universe we live in. So let me go
Speaker 1: down to another question. You said, yes, no, it's fine,
Speaker 1: but I just I want to dig into these topics,
Speaker 1: which is okay, you want to go on energy stort.
Speaker 1: The energy source is potentially the same way as a
Speaker 1: New Kork let me just ask you this, what what
Speaker 1: is the energy source for a UFO? Well, in your opinion,
Speaker 1: what do you think the energy sources?
Speaker 2: In my opinion, uh, some of it is a lot
Speaker 2: of it is beamed from the motherships. So you have
Speaker 2: and and and by the way, if you if you're
Speaker 2: defined gravity, you're making uh, the mass, the effective mass
Speaker 2: of the UFO becomes zero. And interestingly enough, so once
Speaker 2: you get over a threshold, you need very little energy
Speaker 2: to keep it covering or flying. Uh. That's why they can,
Speaker 2: you know, do these sharp right turns as they're they're
Speaker 2: basically being treated as if they have no inertia. And inertia,
Speaker 2: by the way, is the handshake that objects make with
Speaker 2: the rest of the the mass of the universe too,
Speaker 2: you know, show that they have a mass. And so
Speaker 2: in my opinion, uh, a lot of the smaller ships
Speaker 2: are just beamed. They just have a nice tight microwave
Speaker 2: beam on them to give them just enough power to
Speaker 2: run everything. But they don't need much power when they're
Speaker 2: when they're in this waitless state. If you if you're
Speaker 2: kind of in a state of local zero gravity, then
Speaker 2: you don't need any energy to preserve that you have
Speaker 2: all you need to do is make sure that that
Speaker 2: the fields that do that are controlled. The larger ships
Speaker 2: I believe run on fusion energy, just like the stars,
Speaker 2: and once we figure out how to make fusion energy,
Speaker 2: you know, we're doing that now. I've worked on that
Speaker 2: all my career, on and off to work on fusion
Speaker 2: and it's incredibly You can make fusion energy that technically
Speaker 2: releases no radiation, so you could actually sit beside the
Speaker 2: thermonuclear reactor on your ship and it would generate megawatts
Speaker 2: of power and enough to power just about anything you want.
Speaker 2: So oh well, people talk about zero point energy and
Speaker 2: you'd think, okay, like pressure, Like you know, a can
Speaker 2: of air at very high pressure, you can get energy
Speaker 2: from that. You open the valve and blow the air
Speaker 2: through a turbine that gives you press But that's a
Speaker 2: pressure difference. If you're a fish down to the bottom
Speaker 2: of Arianus Trench, you're surrounded by pressure, but you can't
Speaker 2: feel it because the pressure inside you're the same as
Speaker 2: the pressure outside equilibrium. So zero point energy, people, it
Speaker 2: does have very high energy. I mean, quantum mechanics predicts
Speaker 2: that the universe has all of this energy in it.
Speaker 2: Every every cubic centimeter. But here's an example of how
Speaker 2: to release zero point energy. Make yourself a small black
Speaker 2: hole and putting stuff into it. That black hole will
Speaker 2: swallow most of what you feed into, the rest of
Speaker 2: it will vaporize and turn into a plasma. And if
Speaker 2: you put up what's called an MHG generator to get
Speaker 2: the energy out of the plasma flow out, then you
Speaker 2: can generate power from this black hole by just feeding
Speaker 2: it aspirts every yeah, and so, but the thing is
Speaker 2: is that if you lose control of that process, then
Speaker 2: the black hole swallows everything a higher planet. So I'm
Speaker 2: just saying, unless you know what you're doing on this,
Speaker 2: well that's that's a way to do it. According to
Speaker 2: soccerov android Sokarov, Russian.
Speaker 1: That's what he thinks. Okay, well then now I definitely
Speaker 1: think that's the answer. So if that's just as simple
Speaker 1: as I mean, and when you think of stuff, it
Speaker 1: can just be energy because equals mc squared some masses energy.
Speaker 1: So if we're just shooting like ado second laser pulses
Speaker 1: continuously onto a point, then theoretically we can produce a
Speaker 1: tiny black hole and sustain it by just keep zapping
Speaker 1: it more and more and more, as long as we
Speaker 1: have like perfect precision on our on our and we're
Speaker 1: basically created a particle collider, then at that point, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what that is, just lazer. So now
Speaker 1: there was a paper that I read on this front
Speaker 1: that said that it tried to our argue you. I
Speaker 1: think it was a little too optimistic that the Hawking
Speaker 1: radiation or black body radiation would prevent the black hole
Speaker 1: from ever stabilizing, that it would radiate away before that occurred.
Speaker 1: And he hot takes her opinions on that.
Speaker 2: If you start me, oh, let me let you let
Speaker 2: me say real.
Speaker 1: Quick too before I before you answer, is that Salvator
Speaker 1: Pais adamantly disagreed in private conversations with me and said
Speaker 1: that for sure we can produce a black hole.
Speaker 2: So what do you think, Well, Salva or Palas and
Speaker 2: I have that. We even published a joint article where
Speaker 2: he he made a great discovery mathematically from general relativity
Speaker 2: called the super force, and you know, I helped him
Speaker 2: get that published in the you know, just a scientific journal,
Speaker 2: and so we get we get along just fine. I yes,
Speaker 2: you could make a tiny black hole like with an
Speaker 2: auto laser beam and and then. But according to Hawking
Speaker 2: Hawking's theory, if you make this tiny black hole, it
Speaker 2: disappears almost instantly and you just basically get the energy.
Speaker 2: You're basically just taking perfectly good laser energy and turning
Speaker 2: it into black body radiation coming out. There's no it's
Speaker 2: not clear that you can get any gain from that.
Speaker 2: I tend to view zero point energy as something that
Speaker 2: if it was easy to do, it would be like
Speaker 2: a black hole that could then get out of control
Speaker 2: and swallow everything you were trying to power, uh, specifically
Speaker 2: like your entire planet. So it I I'm not a
Speaker 2: big believer in zero point energy that will be able
Speaker 2: to harness. But like I said, the the few times
Speaker 2: I've been wrong in my physics s careers when I
Speaker 2: said something is impossible, so uh, maybe that.
Speaker 1: A little bit more so, do you think pret energy
Speaker 1: as possible as real? Are you more of the there's
Speaker 1: no way to get more energy out than inn? I?
Speaker 2: I pretty much. I don't think. I don't think there's
Speaker 2: cause the cosmos provides you with a free lunch, except
Speaker 2: for the entire cosmos itself.
Speaker 1: Except for the entire the time that happened where everything
Speaker 1: the entire lunch. That's my favorite counter is when people
Speaker 1: say there's no such thing as energy from from nothing,
Speaker 1: and I go, except for that time when the Big
Speaker 1: Bang happened and all energy appeared from nowhere except.
Speaker 2: See but you know, you're you're a podcast. That's great. Uh,
Speaker 2: you know, but you could talk about these things and
Speaker 2: you're right, you're right. Uh, you know, the Big Bang
Speaker 2: wasn't all you can eat buffet for lunch. Uh. And
Speaker 2: uh so it's but fusion energy, especially burning like deuterium
Speaker 2: and helium three, that has the potential to be You
Speaker 2: wouldn't be able to tell the difference between that and
Speaker 2: a free energy machine. It was just a black box
Speaker 2: and you put in a tiny amount of helium and
Speaker 2: a tiny amount of heavy hydrogen. You get all this
Speaker 2: energy out. I mean, it would be easy, In fact,
Speaker 2: it would be easy for an alien to claim hold
Speaker 2: my black box. Human. It produces free energy from the vacuum.
Speaker 2: And and then you say, well, what what are you
Speaker 2: feeding into there? Oh? Helium? It helps, It helps, It
Speaker 2: helps the reactions go, you.
Speaker 1: Know, and it works.
Speaker 2: By the way, You've got to realize you can't believe, ye,
Speaker 2: the universe is full of snake oil salesmen, and not
Speaker 2: all of them are from Earth. You've got to realize
Speaker 2: this is a cosmo political, almost cold war situation we
Speaker 2: have going with some of these species, especially the little
Speaker 2: short gray guys. And you can't believe anything they tell
Speaker 2: you nothing.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well before we get to the aliens that I
Speaker 1: have any more hard physics questions on that front. So yes, yes, plasma.
Speaker 1: So and this is something that I've struggled with, which
Speaker 1: is that are people that are in the hot fusion
Speaker 1: community really saying that we're just getting you know, if
Speaker 1: you do the chemistry, we turn two heavy hydrogen deuterium
Speaker 1: atoms in to a helium and we get a little
Speaker 1: bit of access energy.
Speaker 2: Oh well, you know it's it's it's.
Speaker 1: Is that correct?
Speaker 2: Yes? Uh, but but in terms of since equals mc
Speaker 2: square c is so big, the the amount of energy
Speaker 2: at least is enormous.
Speaker 1: So you know, the fuel then heavy hydrogen is relatively
Speaker 1: abundant right on planet Earth. So that would feel like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: we can get it from anywhere. Can we get it
Speaker 1: from the air?
Speaker 2: Yep?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's because there's kind of like a lot of
Speaker 1: air on this planet. So you could just have your device.
Speaker 1: Have you seen this n G eight company that is
Speaker 1: literally producing cold fusion plasma that they claim just run
Speaker 1: straight off the air just like that.
Speaker 2: Uh No, I'm by the way myself, and we're telling
Speaker 2: with a mentor at our school that I went to
Speaker 2: at Livermore, and he would come around and talk to
Speaker 2: us and give us lectures and stuff. I talked to
Speaker 2: him several times. It was a great honor to me
Speaker 2: to do that, and he basically encouraged us to always
Speaker 2: think practically about everything. And his reaction to cold fusion was, well, wow,
Speaker 2: there's probably It turns out the volcano is on the
Speaker 2: bottom of the ocean in the mid Atlantic Ridge put
Speaker 2: out all of this heavy helium. It's called helium three
Speaker 2: or no, actually light helium helium three instead of helium four,
Speaker 2: and helium three is the product of fusion reactions. So
Speaker 2: he's that nature is already doing cold fusion. There's no
Speaker 2: explanation for all this helium three coming out of these
Speaker 2: volcanoes under and but at the same time, my own
Speaker 2: experience has been that yes, you can apparently get some
Speaker 2: energy out of cold fusion, but very little. It's like
Speaker 2: a radium watch dial puts out light. Okay, maybe you
Speaker 2: could clamp solar cells on a radium watch dial and say, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm getting infinite energy from radium. Well, it's not very
Speaker 2: much energy. It's not enough energy to run the watch
Speaker 2: as it turns out, you know you have to. But
Speaker 2: people have invented now nuclear batteries that run for thousands
Speaker 2: of years without needing to be recharged, but they don't
Speaker 2: put out much power. Nature Yeah good, Yeah, yeah. Nature
Speaker 2: likes big releases of energy like quick start uh, massive
Speaker 2: invests in a star in order to get like this
Speaker 2: to make the sun work. By my son, who's kind
Speaker 2: of a wise acre, but it's also very smart, he said, Dad.
Speaker 2: If you want to have harness fusion power, just put
Speaker 2: up a sol.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't believe nature.
Speaker 2: Nature has. Well, you may very well be right, and
Speaker 2: somebody in his garage a harness figure out a way
Speaker 2: to harness cold fusion. But my own impression after examining
Speaker 2: that field for many, many years is the main problem
Speaker 2: with cold fusion is that it's cold, and because it's cold,
Speaker 2: it's not producing. It's not giving you much. It's more
Speaker 2: like a radium watchtyal than than uh than something like
Speaker 2: a fusion reactor like the sun don't.
Speaker 1: But you know, you know, like that that's I look
Speaker 1: at that problem. Is that's a benefit, Like we can
Speaker 1: do cold fusion they produce.
Speaker 2: Oh yes, there's no question that we can harness nuke
Speaker 2: and or energy to get electrical power. I mean I
Speaker 2: used to live in Wisconsin and uh, you know, we
Speaker 2: had four nuclear power We had four nuclear power stations
Speaker 2: powering the uh state during the winter. Uh. Uh. I
Speaker 2: had a guy who was I was teaching at a
Speaker 2: college state college and teaching physics and astronomy, and one
Speaker 2: guy on staff. He was a big advocate for wind
Speaker 2: power and solar power. And in the middle of winter,
Speaker 2: I would drive to into work and I'd see him.
Speaker 2: That's say, Josh, there's no wind, there's no sun. Why
Speaker 2: are the lights on in this building? And the answer
Speaker 2: was nuclear power? And so we've already. But but you know,
Speaker 2: of course that fission power has its own problems. Chernobyl, Fukushima,
Speaker 2: through Mile Island.
Speaker 1: Everything has So I don't find it very efficient though,
Speaker 1: to just boil some water and spin a turbine. That
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like a very intelligent way to produce energy
Speaker 1: to me. And you might be right. Maybe right now,
Speaker 1: we don't have very powerful zero point energy taps.
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean, it's.
Speaker 1: Just an engineering problem to me. I mean you say, oh,
Speaker 1: we can produce some energy, but we can only produce
Speaker 1: a little bit of amount. And I say, okay, well
Speaker 1: let's try something else. And I would say maybe plasma
Speaker 1: for example. And this leads me my next question that
Speaker 1: I want to ask you about, which is are you
Speaker 1: familiar with Ken's Shoulders? Are you familiar with hal Pudolph?
Speaker 1: And do you know about their EV hold on, let
Speaker 1: me finish with quick. Do you know about their ev
Speaker 1: condensed charge research that the Pentagon like highly prioritized in
Speaker 1: the early nineties. So because they like the answer all
Speaker 1: your the questions that you said there about the zero
Speaker 1: puin energy, the plasma, everything we've been saying to me is, well,
Speaker 1: look at Ken shoulders ev O work, because he's basically saying,
Speaker 1: here's the answers to all the problems that you just described.
Speaker 2: Ken Shoulders was just a marvelous guy. I had a
Speaker 2: very pleasant luncheon and after I spent hours sitting in
Speaker 2: my office and he was chatting with me in Washington,
Speaker 2: d C. And we got along famously he showed me
Speaker 2: all his experimental work and oh it was just great. Uh,
Speaker 2: it's so sad that he's not around now. He And
Speaker 2: the thing is that he told me he was not
Speaker 2: talking about it as an energy source. But you know,
Speaker 2: I'm sure that his thoughts evolved on and he maybe
Speaker 2: figured out a way the phenomenon that he found his
Speaker 2: EVS electron velorum, the strong electrons. I believe that that
Speaker 2: he was really onto something. In fact, that it didn't
Speaker 2: get pursued. He is that probably it's part of a
Speaker 2: classified program someplace. You know, all of us my own
Speaker 2: experience has stumbled on how to make gravity modification in
Speaker 2: the lab. I mean it was very tiny amount. It's
Speaker 2: Parker was when I would talk about publishing it, the
Speaker 2: people who had paid me to do the work, whom
Speaker 2: I later discovered work for the agency, said, uh, we
Speaker 2: we think that that would be a bad idea. John. Uh,
Speaker 2: you know, we paid you good money to do this
Speaker 2: research and own it, and we don't want it out.
Speaker 2: There was the what they told me. Yeah, uh, you
Speaker 2: know it was, And it was it was not even direct.
Speaker 2: It was more like, John, you'll be on really shaky
Speaker 2: ground if you try to get this stuff publish and
Speaker 2: if you want any more money from us, you won't
Speaker 2: do that. And so so basically I discovered that the
Speaker 2: government could do gravity modification based on this GEM theory
Speaker 2: that I had worked on. And what that meant, though,
Speaker 2: was that there was an enormous classified program going on
Speaker 2: on about this and that, uh, they basically wanted to
Speaker 2: see what I could do based on this fairly rudimentary
Speaker 2: theory I developed of unifying gravity in D and M.
Speaker 2: They wanted to see what I could do with it
Speaker 2: and to see if they had to, uh, you know,
Speaker 2: give me a bus ticket to Site fifty one. And
Speaker 2: what they did is they kind of satisfied, satisfied themselves
Speaker 2: that I didn't have you know, I couldn't make anything
Speaker 2: flyer out of the rule. I would just make things
Speaker 2: get lighter on a on a chemical scale. And so
Speaker 2: what they did is they basically just said, good work, John,
Speaker 2: don't talk about this to anybody, and maybe it will
Speaker 2: give you some more money. More money was not forthcoming.
Speaker 2: Finally I got a two hundred thousand dollars grant from
Speaker 2: DARPA to developed my theory of gravity E and M unification,
Speaker 2: which leads to control gravity. And one of these stipulations
Speaker 2: when I got the money from DARPA is we don't
Speaker 2: want you doing experiments. This is purely theoretical. Do you understand?
Speaker 2: And I said, yes, sir, please sign my check. So
Speaker 2: let me.
Speaker 1: So you're familiar with ken shoulders work, You said, but
Speaker 1: what about how the name that comes up.
Speaker 2: How put Off? Oh, how put Off is a scholar
Speaker 2: and gentleman. Uh. And he has a very similar theory
Speaker 2: to mine find gravity and E and M that he
Speaker 2: has published. He and I get the same results for
Speaker 2: how to produce gravity. And I just published in an
Speaker 2: article where I basically showed that you can get the
Speaker 2: same you know in the equation that gives you flight
Speaker 2: for airplanes, you know the wing, the basic design of
Speaker 2: the wing for an airplane. It's called the Bernoulli equation.
Speaker 2: You can actually derive what's called that works in the vacuum.
Speaker 2: It works on the moon because it's changing gravity with electromagnetism.
Speaker 2: And I showed that I can get that equation from
Speaker 2: my theory, and then if I go to how Putoff's theory,
Speaker 2: I can get the same equation using his equations. So
Speaker 2: we have slightly different models. His both of our models
Speaker 2: can be summarized in that if you have two bright
Speaker 2: objects in a dark box, they put out a black
Speaker 2: body radiation field. They push against each other because of
Speaker 2: radiation pressure, so they'll push each other apart in this
Speaker 2: dark right, objects in a dark box push each other
Speaker 2: apart because of mutual radiation pressure. If you put two
Speaker 2: dark objects in a bright box, you eat the box,
Speaker 2: so it's white hot. They actually attract one another because
Speaker 2: of mutual shadowing, and it goes as one over our square,
Speaker 2: just like gravity. And that is kind of a way
Speaker 2: to summarize the theory of both myself and how put Off.
Speaker 2: How put Off's original work was based on Andre's Sokrov
Speaker 2: You must understand that a hydrogen bomb runs on radiation pressure.
Speaker 2: You set off an atomic bomb inside a watermelon shaped
Speaker 2: casing at one end of the case. One end of
Speaker 2: the watermelon is an atomic bomb, and you focus all
Speaker 2: of the energy coming out of that onto the other end,
Speaker 2: where they have a ball of hydrogen isotopes, and that's
Speaker 2: what gives you up. And so Andre Sokaroff was working
Speaker 2: on that basic design of hydrogen bomb, which is the
Speaker 2: same as the Teller design.
Speaker 1: And.
Speaker 2: He basically realized, oh, you could get a theory or
Speaker 2: gravity out of this. So he published a very brief
Speaker 2: article about how quantum the quantum zero point energy produces
Speaker 2: a radiation pressure that pushes objects together and published theory.
Speaker 2: And how put Off took that theory and expanded on it.
Speaker 2: And but I give Hall and I get along just great.
Speaker 2: He's a great guy. We basically get the same answers.
Speaker 1: Okay, doctor Brandenburg. You know, I'm a huge fan of
Speaker 1: your gem unification theory. I love your analogy of the
Speaker 1: black box and the light inside the black box or
Speaker 1: the light box with the black inside of it. And
Speaker 1: the reason why I love it is that it shows
Speaker 1: this duality of gravity where you can have this attractive
Speaker 1: force or repulsive force. And I think that's one of
Speaker 1: the big things that we get wrong on gravity, is
Speaker 1: that we assume it only has one force effect, but
Speaker 1: potentially it could have an opposite one. And I love
Speaker 1: that your theory also explains you can actually calculate big
Speaker 1: g which, as you were mentioning before I just had
Speaker 1: to edit this, you were saying that this really impressed
Speaker 1: a lot of the people that you know, this theory
Speaker 1: shows that we have big G. Now, are you familiar
Speaker 1: with some other people that have come up with similar theories?
Speaker 1: Like fried Wart Winterberg has this theory of plank Ether
Speaker 1: hypothesis which is also very similar to yours, and how Pudolph.
Speaker 1: There's another guy, Larry Reid, who is I think a
Speaker 1: former Lockheed Martin engineer, that he has this big book
Speaker 1: on quantum wave mechanics and it also has similar similar theories. Right,
Speaker 1: were you familiar with any of them?
Speaker 2: I'm not familiar familiar with Reid's uh work, But Friedrich
Speaker 2: Winnenberg and I go way back. Unfortunately he's not with
Speaker 2: us anymore. Yeah, yeah, he I met him first when
Speaker 2: I was working at Livermore.
Speaker 1: Really he was a friend.
Speaker 2: He was a friend of my one of my thesis advisors,
Speaker 2: and uh yeah, and then I would run into it
Speaker 2: periodically over the years. And uh his reaction to my
Speaker 2: big G was skepticism. Oh yes, he says, if you're right,
Speaker 2: I will carry your bags to Stockholm, you know, when
Speaker 2: you get your Nobel Prize. I liked the sound of that.
Speaker 2: But uh, he he was he was a very cross,
Speaker 2: kind of a grumpy character when I knew him, and uh,
Speaker 2: you know, and uh, uh I'll give you one quick
Speaker 2: story about it. He pennantly figured out how to hydrogen
Speaker 2: bomb worked and started publishing that and was amazed when
Speaker 2: the US government showed up and confiscated all his papers,
Speaker 2: and he didn't like that. He was very grumpy about that,
Speaker 2: and he he would show up at scientific meetings wearing
Speaker 2: carrying a big billboard saying the government has confiscated my
Speaker 2: papers and saying I can't talk about this or that.
Speaker 2: And I remember the comment of my thesis advisor to him,
Speaker 2: a very brilliant colony, Harry Seline, with us anymore. But
Speaker 2: he said Freedwart. He always called him freed Wort. He said,
Speaker 2: we already know how to build a hydrogen bomb. Tell
Speaker 2: us something, tell us how to do you know, harness
Speaker 2: fusion energy, So if you know, we could power our cars,
Speaker 2: you know, the hydrogen bomb problem, that's already been solved.
Speaker 2: And but so Winterberg was was a very independent, rugged individualists.
Speaker 2: He apparently worked for as a graduate student for Werner Heisenberg,
Speaker 2: who was in charge of the the Nazi.
Speaker 1: Principle kind of like a big deal.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the uncertainty principle.
Speaker 1: And mentor that was Winterbrig's mentor, And it turns out
Speaker 1: he's been working on all this secret stuff and was
Speaker 1: plasma researcher like you as well. And it turns out
Speaker 1: you knew him. Oh, I just showed a picture of
Speaker 1: his book. His books got an atomic bomb exploding on it.
Speaker 1: On in front of his book. It's literally called nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty one the Principles Physical Principles of Thermo Nuclear Explosive Devices.
Speaker 1: I mean, I can see why the government might like,
Speaker 1: have you put him under lock and key?
Speaker 2: So it was it was a very awkward situation. Finally,
Speaker 2: the government decided to just declassify a lot of the
Speaker 2: stuff that he was talking about.
Speaker 1: How they didn't when did that happen? Because what I
Speaker 1: had heard.
Speaker 2: That happened about in nineteen eighty about the end of
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty one. Finally, so he kind of won. He
Speaker 2: kind of won that. But other people were figuring it
Speaker 2: out too, just from open literature. And but yeah, so
Speaker 2: he yeah, but that was the thing, Freedmark. We already
Speaker 2: know how to build a hydrogen Bob, tell us how
Speaker 2: to build something useful.
Speaker 1: You know, give us the free energy devices.
Speaker 2: Free energy devices.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you think about, Eric Davis? That's the
Speaker 1: last guy I want to ask you about Eric Davis.
Speaker 2: And Eric Davis is a brilliant guy. And he worked
Speaker 2: with how put Off, which you know for years, which
Speaker 2: is anybody who worked with hal put Off is a
Speaker 2: good guy. I haven't I haven't spoken to Eric Davis
Speaker 2: uh in years. We had a few brief conversations and conferences.
Speaker 1: What about his papers specifically, He's got one about extracting
Speaker 1: energy from the vacuum and one of the methods is
Speaker 1: using an electrostatic what they call it inertial electrostatic confinement process.
Speaker 1: He's got a paper about ball lightning, which is basically
Speaker 1: how to stabilize the ball of plasma. And then he
Speaker 1: also got a paper on wormholes, traversible wormholes, stargates and
Speaker 1: dark energy.
Speaker 2: Now, these are all very very interesting, good things. I
Speaker 2: myself was tasked by the Air Force to make ball lightning,
Speaker 2: only overbidden to call it ball lightning. We were given
Speaker 2: three quarters of a million dollars in a three year
Speaker 2: program to make ball lightning. We managed to make it
Speaker 2: in microwave ovens and UH and it would just run
Speaker 2: for minutes. You could just make this ball of fire
Speaker 2: appear and UH sit there for minutes. In the microwave oven. Uh.
Speaker 2: We finally made it as big as soccer balls in
Speaker 2: a in an industrial microwave. Well, we went to a
Speaker 2: regular A regular microwave oven uses short wavelength uh, and
Speaker 2: so they have industrial microwaves that uses a lower frequency,
Speaker 2: so the wavelengths are bigger, so you can cook larger
Speaker 2: things like a ton of bacon. You can cook a
Speaker 2: ton of bacon at once using industrial microwaves. So we
Speaker 2: went up to the facility where they had a big
Speaker 2: industrial microwave set up and made ball lightning there. We
Speaker 2: made it as big as soccer balls.
Speaker 1: All lightning and you call it something else.
Speaker 2: We we called it pia leaning, persistent ionization and air
Speaker 2: You'll notice if you watch a lightning strike someplace, you'll
Speaker 2: have a lightning strike and then they'll be like half
Speaker 2: a second, we'll go by, and then a lightning strike
Speaker 2: will fall exactly the same.
Speaker 1: Path because their.
Speaker 2: Has been ionized and it stays ionized. And by the
Speaker 2: way that that violates all present theories of how the
Speaker 2: atmosphere works. So there's something mysterious. When we first produced
Speaker 2: our ball lighting, we went to a conference sponsor by
Speaker 2: the Air Force, and the people ahead of us were
Speaker 2: from some university. They had several professors and their teams
Speaker 2: of graduate students, and they said that what we're attempting
Speaker 2: to do is impossible. And then we rolled in a microwave,
Speaker 2: ove it and did it right in front of them.
Speaker 2: And you know what, they didn't come up to me
Speaker 2: and shake my hand afterwards. Now they sat in the
Speaker 2: back of the room and looked very grumpy like what
Speaker 2: I'd done was cheap, some cheap carnival trick. But we
Speaker 2: made it. Yeah, we made this ball lightning as big
Speaker 2: as the soccer balls that we got. Welder sunburned from it.
Speaker 2: So if you see ball lightning in your backyard, stay
Speaker 2: away from it. It's probably charge to a million bolts.
Speaker 1: Do you think you could turn it into a drone
Speaker 1: that could be remote controlled?
Speaker 2: Well, let me put it this way. If you are
Speaker 2: generating anti gravity drive according to the theory that myself
Speaker 2: and help put Off has a very similar theory, then
Speaker 2: you're generating powerful electromagnetic fields around an object, and that
Speaker 2: will turn the air into a plasma state, like almost fire.
Speaker 2: So you from a distance, it'll just look like a plasma,
Speaker 2: or you wouldn't even be able to see what's causing it?
Speaker 1: I guess my question is is there something that can
Speaker 1: you put something inside of it that can do that?
Speaker 1: Or does it have to be projected out to it
Speaker 1: like the you.
Speaker 2: Could put something inside of it. Uh. Something that's nullifying
Speaker 2: local gravity uses such a powerful electromagnetic fields. It actually
Speaker 2: breaks down the air uh to make it glow, and
Speaker 2: it makes a weak plasma in the air. And in fact,
Speaker 2: if you don't, if you're not careful, if you make
Speaker 2: the plasma too intense, the whole effect will just shut
Speaker 2: off and your thing will crash.
Speaker 1: Stabilize it, right.
Speaker 2: You have to stabilize it. So it's a uh. And
Speaker 2: by the way, according to my theory, you can tell
Speaker 2: UFOs are coming from miles and miles away before you
Speaker 2: can even see it, because they put out electromagnetic signature.
Speaker 2: And my own belief is the government already knows how
Speaker 2: to pick. They can tell a they can tell a
Speaker 2: regular hobbyists. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, it's absurd to think that with the UFOs
Speaker 1: using electromagnetic and like you know, endothermic drives is what
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call it. They're not the reason why we're
Speaker 1: filming an infrared and thermal and stuff like that is
Speaker 1: partially because it's just better sensors, but also because they're
Speaker 1: able to pick this stuff up like instantaneously compared to
Speaker 1: optical spectrum. Right yeah, let me ask.
Speaker 2: You, so if you have the right if you are
Speaker 2: looking for the right frequencies of electromagnetism, and this has
Speaker 2: been known in the UFO community for a long time. UH.
Speaker 2: They they say that one frequency that the UFO is
Speaker 2: like to use is thirty it's half of wall current
Speaker 2: instead of sixty hertz. Is thirty hurts And there are
Speaker 2: reasons for that that I won't go into, maybe, but
Speaker 2: it's a well, I mean it's it's it's you don't
Speaker 2: want to turn your UFO into a radio station because
Speaker 2: the shorter the wavelength, the more UH the more radio
Speaker 2: frequency you admit, and finally, all your power just goes
Speaker 2: into making UH E and M radiation radio waves. And
Speaker 2: you don't want that. You want the radio, You want
Speaker 2: the electromagna field to hang around your ships so you
Speaker 2: can fly. So my own belief is the government can
Speaker 2: pick up the U. I can tell the difference between
Speaker 2: Joe Butt's hobby uh drone that he's just flying around
Speaker 2: UH just because he likes to do that and and
Speaker 2: a real UFO. Uh by the way, I will I
Speaker 2: don't know if you want this opinion right now, but
Speaker 2: the whole drop, this whole so called drone thing, and
Speaker 2: its core, I believe is a UFO surge, of a
Speaker 2: surge of et UFO sightings. The government is then desperately
Speaker 2: running around with its own drones and its own helicopters
Speaker 2: with light bright lights on them. At night, all you
Speaker 2: can see just is the bright light. And so the
Speaker 2: government is trying to blow as much smoke as possible.
Speaker 2: And they've always done this whenever there's a big surge
Speaker 2: of UFO siding, they call it swamp gas. They call
Speaker 2: it sightings of venus, they call it weather balloons. When
Speaker 2: they UFOs are flying over Washington, DC and jet fighters
Speaker 2: were chasing them, they said, these are just temperature inversions,
Speaker 2: you know, you know, in the air. And so the
Speaker 2: drones are a very convenient thing where the government to
Speaker 2: use as a lame a lame excuse. I mean, if
Speaker 2: these were real drones, they wouldn't be able to shut
Speaker 2: down Bright Patterson Air Force BACE and Langley Air Force Space.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're they're using its neuro linguistic programming. You know,
Speaker 1: it's just a diversion. You can call the UFO a drone.
Speaker 1: This is why I was asking me the earlier question
Speaker 1: about do you think these balls of plasma can be drones?
Speaker 1: And what I would recommend, humbly you're the expert, is
Speaker 1: check out Ken Shoulders scientific paper called Primitivity Transitions, because
Speaker 1: it essentially argues that after he realized that space was
Speaker 1: not empty, there really is this ether of energy, the
Speaker 1: zero point energy. Yes, he realized that if you make
Speaker 1: this ball plasma, that it actually has anti gravity properties
Speaker 1: just naturally, because what's happening is the plasma's changing the
Speaker 1: permittivity of that region of space, changing the speed of light.
Speaker 1: And so it turned out that you could just if
Speaker 1: you think about biological extension, you could use this plasma
Speaker 1: on say a hypersonic spy plane to allow it to
Speaker 1: cut through the air. You could use it on a UFO,
Speaker 1: so you could have a craft inside, you know, and
Speaker 1: your plasma is covering your UFO or why have anybody
Speaker 1: in there at all? Why haven't be a transportation device
Speaker 1: at I'll just turn it into a drone. Just put
Speaker 1: a small and now you've got a drone that looks
Speaker 1: like a ball of plasma like a star that can
Speaker 1: just float around. And I and Hal putoff. He has
Speaker 1: like one major patent. It's been approved five different times.
Speaker 1: It's just called communication system. Like and this is one
Speaker 1: of the spookiest names ever because you read it and like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's a quantum communication system that doesn't use electric and
Speaker 1: magnetic fields. It just uses potentials, scaler potentials. I'm looking
Speaker 1: at it and I'm going, he's got a he's got
Speaker 1: a gravity communication device that can control a plasma drone
Speaker 1: because it says right in there it goes through plasma.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, well, there's your communication method.
Speaker 2: Oh oh uh, well, the the scaler uh, the scaler
Speaker 2: waves phenomenon was first talked about by Tesla, who if
Speaker 2: anybody would know about such stuff, it would be Tesla.
Speaker 2: So unfortunately he didn't leave a lot well in the
Speaker 2: notes that we know about. And of course when he died,
Speaker 2: the FBI was in the middle of World War two.
Speaker 2: The FBI went to his apartment confiscated everything. In fact,
Speaker 2: it was Trump's uncle, President Trump's uncle John let the
Speaker 2: let let the uh you know, the team of FBI agents.
Speaker 2: They just took everything but the bare walls. I think
Speaker 2: they even took the wallpaper that he might have scribbled on.
Speaker 2: But anyway, he believed in scale the scaler potential, Uh,
Speaker 2: electromagnetic fields of you know ares they have you know,
Speaker 2: but this is like a pressure. This is like a
Speaker 2: sound wave. A sound wave is what's called a scalar wave.
Speaker 2: It's a pressure. It doesn't have any direction to it,
Speaker 2: it just has a number. And Tesla talked about this
Speaker 2: is It turns out the gem theory I work on
Speaker 2: and also which was used by Einstein is based on
Speaker 2: Cluza kaline theory five dimensional theory. And when you do
Speaker 2: the five dimensional theory to unify, it unifies the mathematics
Speaker 2: of gravity and electromagnetism. So it does that, and what
Speaker 2: also falls out is this scalar field that so.
Speaker 1: Let me jump in here because I'm Bearden also references
Speaker 1: all the same physicists, Clusa, Client, soccer Ov, everybody you've
Speaker 1: been talking about, and he explains, uh, scalar physics. A
Speaker 1: lot of people don't understand it. And so I I
Speaker 1: think this demonstration will help because this is actually something
Speaker 1: Tom Montalk he's also a physicist and engineer if you
Speaker 1: haven't talked about you should. He talks about this and
Speaker 1: it's a very simple thought. Is that right now, if
Speaker 1: you were to take two waves like electromagnetic waves with
Speaker 1: the right hand rule, blah blah blah, you have them
Speaker 1: out of phase of one another like this, or it
Speaker 1: can be a triangle formation any zero point system, so
Speaker 1: they cancel each other out. So whatever their amplitudes of
Speaker 1: their waves are, cancel each other out. Conventional physics would say, okay,
Speaker 1: that means I'm pulling on both sides of this rubber
Speaker 1: band equally. Okay, so it's not gonna move left or
Speaker 1: right right now, I can pull twice as hard, same thing.
Speaker 1: It's not moving left or right. I can play it
Speaker 1: five times as hard. Eventually, this rubber band is gonna
Speaker 1: snap right. That stress in the medium is the scaler potential.
Speaker 1: That's the gravity. That's the effect that we feel from
Speaker 1: all the energy around us all the time. What do
Speaker 1: you think?
Speaker 2: I like your analogy? I, with your permission, I will
Speaker 2: be using it.
Speaker 1: Go ahead. I'm paying it forward. You know, I'm paying
Speaker 1: the analogy forward because it's important. It's a simple way
Speaker 1: to think about it, where you would never say that
Speaker 1: there's nothing here like you would say that. The more
Speaker 1: I'm pulling this, you're creating this stress and you can
Speaker 1: hear it by you know, interacting with it. To me,
Speaker 1: that's what space time is, and all the energy on
Speaker 1: top of space time is is that there's different stresses.
Speaker 1: And this is what I think Einstein showed in general relativity,
Speaker 1: different amounts of stresses in different regions. And this ball
Speaker 1: of Earth that we're sitting on causes a very large
Speaker 1: stress that we feel is gravity all around us. Right, yes,
Speaker 1: so you know what, let's let's let's talk some smack
Speaker 1: about some people. You know, if you want to sound
Speaker 1: off on the academic you know, maybe I'll sound off first,
Speaker 1: and then.
Speaker 2: You sound off on the academia.
Speaker 1: You sound off on the academic community first, and then
Speaker 1: I'll respond, and then all sound off on the UFO
Speaker 1: community and you can respond.
Speaker 2: I you know, I went to a string theory It
Speaker 2: was primarily a string theory conference because that's where theoretical
Speaker 2: physics has been concentrating. I fortunately brought my nice girlfriend.
Speaker 2: She wanted to go to the conference with me. And
Speaker 2: I've been married twice and divorced twice, so anyway, so
Speaker 2: she's standing there beside me. This guy looks like he
Speaker 2: wants to slug me. After I showed him my G
Speaker 2: the derivation for Big G because they can't do it.
Speaker 2: It's and he accused me of mathematical sleight of hand
Speaker 2: that I'd hidden G on one side of the equation
Speaker 2: made her appear on the other side. And I said,
Speaker 2: here's the derivation. Here's my equation. It's three lines. Where's
Speaker 2: big G on this other side of the equation that
Speaker 2: I make magically appear? And and it was just like
Speaker 2: a fight in my old high school where I grew up.
Speaker 2: If you want to know where there's a fight, just
Speaker 2: look for a crowd of people around it. And a
Speaker 2: bunch of people are crowded around to watch this. And
Speaker 2: you know, he just was just furious with me.
Speaker 1: What do you think that? Where do you think that
Speaker 1: comes from?
Speaker 2: Like the string the string theory, real real academic science,
Speaker 2: uh at, especially in the big leagues. Is it's you know,
Speaker 2: it's like professional basketball. It's not supposed to be a
Speaker 2: contact sport, but it is. Uh. In a tight game,
Speaker 2: championship game with a tight score under the net in
Speaker 2: the final minutes, the knees and the elbows start to fly.
Speaker 2: I mean, uh, it gets really personal.
Speaker 1: Uh do you think that money?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's a fight over It's a fight over money.
Speaker 2: Uh and prestige power. I mean, how can I get
Speaker 2: to be a department head if I can't find Big G?
Speaker 2: And this guy Brandenburg has done it, you know, and
Speaker 2: his number is part good to within a part per
Speaker 2: ten thousand, you know. And this other graybeard came up
Speaker 2: to my paper and I had the equations all up
Speaker 2: on a big screen, and he says, he's looking at
Speaker 2: everything very carefully. And I said, sir, I can help
Speaker 2: you walk. I can walk you through this theory, you know,
Speaker 2: in my derivation for big G. And I also get
Speaker 2: the mass of the proton, you know, which is massive hydrogen.
Speaker 2: And he just looks at me. He just glares at
Speaker 2: me and says, no, I can read it for myself.
Speaker 2: So these people won't give me zip credit because it
Speaker 2: will Indeed, they view science as a zero sum game.
Speaker 2: If somebody else's theory, you know, if somebody else's theory
Speaker 2: it's any kind of credit or publication in a nice journal,
Speaker 2: then this this diminishes me. How can I become head
Speaker 2: of the department of physics at Harvard. If this idiot
Speaker 2: Brandenburg is running around talking about big G and so
Speaker 2: they go ahead. Yeah, so the government has determined the
Speaker 2: the way that science will go in this country by
Speaker 2: funding string theory for like thirty years. They're they're gas
Speaker 2: lighting the entire academic community. In my opinion, string theory
Speaker 2: obviously doesn't work. It doesn't produce anything that can be
Speaker 2: tested in like at CERN, and basically the government says, well,
Speaker 2: if it doesn't have strings in it, we're not going
Speaker 2: to fund it. And what they're doing is they've they've
Speaker 2: taken people like me and how put Off and some
Speaker 2: other people have taken the too long range forces in
Speaker 2: nature electromagnetism and gravity and unified the mathematically, which is
Speaker 2: you know, started by clusive client theory, and they don't
Speaker 2: want us working on that. In fact, even Einstein, who
Speaker 2: worked on the unified field theory said he says, I've
Speaker 2: gotten the impression the government is not happy with my
Speaker 2: work on unified field theory and wishes I would not
Speaker 2: talk about it anymore. And it's because there's been a
Speaker 2: classified anti gravity program. What you're really talking about is
Speaker 2: a theory of anti gravity for gravity modification.
Speaker 1: Wellhy can't academia figure it out? I mean, so, I
Speaker 1: guess you get it. Is it really just as simple
Speaker 1: as the money is coming from the government to fund it,
Speaker 1: and they only fund the research that they want.
Speaker 2: They only fund the research they want.
Speaker 1: You would still think though that, and I agree with
Speaker 1: you by the way, that absolutely they don't want anyone
Speaker 1: looking at unified theories. They don't want anybody looking down
Speaker 1: any path that will lead them to the physics, which
Speaker 1: is the ether. There isn't a field of energy that's
Speaker 1: out there, there's an extra dimension like clues, a client said.
Speaker 1: And because the moment you figure any of this out,
Speaker 1: everything unravels. You realize like, oh, we can easily do fusion.
Speaker 1: Oh we can produce we have these energy sources that
Speaker 1: are exotic energy sources. We can produce anti gravity. We
Speaker 1: might be able to sort of messing around with time
Speaker 1: as well. So you know, you can see why they
Speaker 1: would do it. But the part I don't understand, how
Speaker 1: are more physicists not figuring it out? From my perspective,
Speaker 1: I'm a guy with no PhD. I've been researching this
Speaker 1: for the last year, year and a half, and I
Speaker 1: realized there's I mean, I feel like, not only is
Speaker 1: there something here, not only is this UFO phenomenon real,
Speaker 1: but the physics it's not even like there's all these options.
Speaker 1: It's like the what you know, what you said with
Speaker 1: gem theory, how Pudoph's theory. They're all soccer off. They're
Speaker 1: all based on this idea of this energy field all
Speaker 1: around us. Yes, the same concept. And that's the answer there.
Speaker 1: It is these guys have all been saying it, you know,
Speaker 1: Brandenburg here how put Off, Like, these guys might have
Speaker 1: seen UFOs and secret projects for all we know. I'm
Speaker 1: not saying you did, but you know, I think it
Speaker 1: definitely has. And so it's like, why are the other
Speaker 1: people not figuring this out? What do you think the
Speaker 1: reason is? Why is it just like this guy Ashton
Speaker 1: and my crew of misfits.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm part of a rebel band up in the
Speaker 2: hills basically along with hal put Off and some other
Speaker 2: workers who figured, you know, figured out the riddle. Uh.
Speaker 2: In my opinion, it's as simple as Okay, Brandenburg, you
Speaker 2: have this theory with this Bernoulli vacuum Bernoulli equation. What
Speaker 2: does an aircraft? What does a craft look? Like that
Speaker 2: uses it. Well, it's a saucer with three bumps on
Speaker 2: the bottom, and and and once you see that picture,
Speaker 2: you just say, oh, this can't be right, and we're
Speaker 2: not going to fund this. And in fact, even the
Speaker 2: word the term anti gravity markshe in the academic community
Speaker 2: is somebody who can't get funding from the government. You
Speaker 2: call it gravity modification. And and but you but all
Speaker 2: of that is apparently just completely been subsumed by this
Speaker 2: string theory business, and they've wasted thirty billion dollars. And
Speaker 2: you could say this is what's called the Winterberg effect.
Speaker 2: Winterberg stumbled on how to build the hydrogen bomb just
Speaker 2: from the open literature. He was close enough that the
Speaker 2: government decided to confiscate all his papers, scolded him. It
Speaker 2: didn't do any good. Finally they just ended up declassifying
Speaker 2: basically all its ideas. And uh so, but this is
Speaker 2: the winner Berg effect applied to gravity E and M
Speaker 2: gravity modification.
Speaker 1: Uh So, there's suppression and stigma, adding stigma to certain
Speaker 1: topics like you see this a lot. And this is
Speaker 1: why I use certain topics like UFOs cold fusion anti gravity,
Speaker 1: although I actually I use gravity modification just because I
Speaker 1: think it's more accurate. But yeah, they stigmatize these topics
Speaker 1: and then nobody will touch them. Academia won't touch them.
Speaker 1: Now I want to take it a step further because
Speaker 1: I want to talk about aliens in the UFO community.
Speaker 1: Is that I and I'm gonna I'm gonna be a
Speaker 1: little adversarial here actually, But first I want to say
Speaker 1: that when I started researching the UFO side of this,
Speaker 1: I was disgusted by the community. I did not expect.
Speaker 1: What I found is I found this community that's hyper political,
Speaker 1: that like admonishes conspiracy theorists while also claiming that there's
Speaker 1: this major conspiracy by the government to cover up aliens.
Speaker 1: And I also found that people were very obsessed with
Speaker 1: the idea of aliens in general. That everybody's got their
Speaker 1: belief system about what the aliens are, where they come from,
Speaker 1: or what have you. Perfectly honest cards on the table.
Speaker 1: I don't care about any of that. I don't care
Speaker 1: where they come from, what they are. They actually don't
Speaker 1: even surprise me if they exist, because, like you said,
Speaker 1: I think the universe is a big place. There's aliens.
Speaker 1: There is a big I have no doubt whether or
Speaker 1: not they're visiting us unless they're impacting my life, I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't really care. But what I found with the
Speaker 1: UFO me was much like what you reference with academias.
Speaker 1: They treated like a zero sum game, like if I'm
Speaker 1: coming in, I'm taking away attention. One of the things
Speaker 1: I heard a lot is that I'm hurting the UFO
Speaker 1: community when I come in with reticulous, a literal missing plane.
Speaker 1: I'm going, how am I hurting the UFO To me,
Speaker 1: It's not like this community has a huge amount of
Speaker 1: credibility here talking about the blue telepathic aliens that nobody's
Speaker 1: ever videoed like, I'm talking about a real missing plane
Speaker 1: and technology. So here's the thing that I really wanted
Speaker 1: to ask you about, is that my opinion after a
Speaker 1: year and a half is that a lot of these
Speaker 1: disclosure advocates, like the Luella Zando's of the world that
Speaker 1: are out there and anyone that's in his crew, you'll
Speaker 1: see them always doing stuff together, like Jeremy Corbel, the
Speaker 1: George Naps. They are essentially, in my opinion, on the
Speaker 1: government payroll, and they're saying that here we'll give you aliens.
Speaker 1: Aliens in this hand are real and that's not that
Speaker 1: mind blowing to anybody, in my opinion. No, you're not
Speaker 1: really revealing anything about it. And then they say, well,
Speaker 1: I'm hiding something behind my back for national security. They say,
Speaker 1: I'll always tech national security, and I go, well, what
Speaker 1: is it that you're hiding back there behind your back,
Speaker 1: because you're saying that aliens are real? And I think
Speaker 1: that what they're hiding back there is basically the first
Speaker 1: hour of this podcast, which is they we've figured out
Speaker 1: cold fusion, We've figured out free energy, or at least
Speaker 1: a source of energy that's so unlimited that we would
Speaker 1: consider it to be free energy, and that that's a
Speaker 1: national security issue because hydrogen bombs, you know, zero point
Speaker 1: energy bombs, whatever, the next we're going to call the
Speaker 1: next evolution, that's a national security issue. And so my opinion,
Speaker 1: the whole UFO thing is that you've got these people
Speaker 1: out there that are grifting off of it, trying to
Speaker 1: sell people this hope for the aliens are going to
Speaker 1: come save us and you know, fix all the problems
Speaker 1: in the world. You've got these other people that are
Speaker 1: just lying by a mission that are like, yeah, aliens
Speaker 1: are real, but I'm not gonna say anything more beyond that.
Speaker 1: And then you've got a few people like the Stephen
Speaker 1: Greers of the world and people like dark journalists who say, like,
Speaker 1: we've got this crazy technology out there, maybe it came
Speaker 1: from aliens, or it did come from aliens, but that
Speaker 1: it's all about the military protecting it. So do you
Speaker 1: think that my assessment is fair? And which where do
Speaker 1: you align on this?
Speaker 2: Char I tend to agree with just about everything you
Speaker 2: have said. I mean, it probably differ on a few details,
Speaker 2: but I mean, I I met Lou Elizondo. I thought
Speaker 2: he's typical of some of the people I worked with
Speaker 2: in Washington, d C. Were veteran people from agencies. They've
Speaker 2: been down in Latin America. Uh, you know, fighting communist
Speaker 2: guerrillas and stuff. These are tough guys. He struck me.
Speaker 2: It's just one of these really tough guys who's come
Speaker 2: out of the jungle given a suit. You know, you
Speaker 2: take off of those cameos. Lou, We're going to give
Speaker 2: you a business suit and you're going to go to
Speaker 2: some conferences for us, and uh, you know, I immediately
Speaker 2: liked him because of that, and uh, but he's he's
Speaker 2: basically admitted that he's still on the government payroll. And
Speaker 2: he basically said, well, I can't talk about that because
Speaker 2: I haven't been authorized to. And I thought, well, I
Speaker 2: thought you were you're whistle bow, you're a whistle blower. No,
Speaker 2: it turns out they he's been given a whistle that
Speaker 2: doesn't blow. It blows only one note, you know.
Speaker 1: And no disrespect to him, because I agree, like I
Speaker 1: respect our veterans. Yes, if anyone, if anyone wants to
Speaker 1: make the choice they're going to protect national security over disclosure,
Speaker 1: that's fine, that's your choice. I'm not I just think
Speaker 1: that if you're going to try to be the spokesperson
Speaker 1: for this at the same time, do you think it's
Speaker 1: true that the thing they're hiding behind the back is
Speaker 1: the science and the physics and the technology. Do you
Speaker 1: think that's what they're hiding or you think it's something else. I, oh,
Speaker 1: there's that component, but there's a lot of other stuff,
Speaker 1: uh like black projects, operations or what do you what
Speaker 1: do you think?
Speaker 2: Well, if you read uh you know, so, if you
Speaker 2: read the novel, or you can actually watch a video
Speaker 2: synopsis of it on YouTube, it's just called Morning Star
Speaker 2: Pass Edition three. It's like half hour. That is even
Speaker 2: a short one, but there's shorter version. But you'll realize
Speaker 2: the government has been fighting. Here's my understanding. We are
Speaker 2: involved in a low intensity conflict with some of the
Speaker 2: species out there, especially the little short gray guys, and
Speaker 2: the government at one point entered into a secret treaty
Speaker 2: with them, and that's forbidden in the Constitution. Treaties are
Speaker 2: supposed to be ratified by the Senate. They're supposed to
Speaker 2: be negotiated by ambassadors that the Senate designates, and with
Speaker 2: the advice and consent to the Senate. And apparently, we know,
Speaker 2: we actually decided to short circuit that entire process and
Speaker 2: come up with a kind of under the table agreement
Speaker 2: with the grays. And if you found out the government
Speaker 2: allowed the grays to kidnap a bunch of people, harvest
Speaker 2: their sperm and eggs so they could make hybrids and
Speaker 2: in return for giving us technology during the Cold War,
Speaker 2: you'd say, gosh, when did the Senate ratify such a treaty?
Speaker 1: And gosh, there's an actual treaty somewhere. There's a paper
Speaker 1: trail for this, you.
Speaker 2: Think, or oh, yeah, well there was that all ended apparently.
Speaker 2: Remember the Cold War? Remember Papa. You're too young to remember, Papa,
Speaker 2: doctor Vallier, who ran Haiti for us. This guy wrapped
Speaker 2: himself in voodoo as a way to terrorize his own population.
Speaker 2: Not only was he a ruthless dictator, but but he
Speaker 2: he mesmerizes people by the idea that he was a
Speaker 2: personification of the god or death in voodoo, and so
Speaker 2: therefore he could make people disappear or torture them to
Speaker 2: death whatever he wanted. And and he he was our
Speaker 2: faithful alliant in Haiti, though, because he was a staunch
Speaker 2: anti communist during the Cold during the Cold War, and
Speaker 2: so the government has been involved in a lot of stuff.
Speaker 2: The UFO cover up has gone on for eighty years,
Speaker 2: and the US government has not exactly followed constitutional norms. Uh.
Speaker 2: You know in their defense, you know what they would say.
Speaker 2: They would say, well, desperate times required death measures. You know,
Speaker 2: we were facing the communists on Earth, we were facing
Speaker 2: the grays from outer space.
Speaker 1: Why are you so convinced that it's grays from outer space?
Speaker 1: Because I've looked at the list of non human intelligence
Speaker 1: options and there's like fifty and only like one of these.
Speaker 1: Then I.
Speaker 2: Agree completely. The universes just like the Earth. The universe
Speaker 2: is a very complicated place. We appear to be a
Speaker 2: strategic location in space. I can give you more details
Speaker 2: on that, but basically, we appear to be a strategic
Speaker 2: location and we're the focus of attention for that reason
Speaker 2: for a number of extra interstellar powers. There's only three
Speaker 2: basic groups. There's there's three basic groups, and that's a
Speaker 2: gross over simplification. But you know, there's the little short
Speaker 2: gray guys. They're terrible, it's my understanding. They're all animal
Speaker 2: mutilations and abductions and stuff. All of that is done
Speaker 2: by them, and human mutilations too.
Speaker 1: Are those the ones that are like the AI ones
Speaker 1: with no souls that people talking about or is that different?
Speaker 2: They act like a bunch of soldier ants.
Speaker 1: Uh, organic AI.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they used to call it in Marvel comics androids,
Speaker 2: bless and blood. That's the little ones.
Speaker 1: They just call them little gray guys.
Speaker 2: They just call them little They call them the grays.
Speaker 2: And apparently they have copper based instead of yeah, iron
Speaker 2: based blood, they have copper based blood, so it's blue,
Speaker 2: leading to the idea of the blue Blood's being you know,
Speaker 2: kind of godlike and uh, but the octopus uses blue blood,
Speaker 2: and so you can support a very advanced nervous system
Speaker 2: with blue blood. However, copper based blood is not as
Speaker 2: efficient as iron based blood, as it turns out. That's
Speaker 2: why all the major land animals on Earth in a
Speaker 2: high oxygen environment use red blood. Things like scorpions and
Speaker 2: tarantulas and stuff. They use blue blood. And so the
Speaker 2: Grays attempt to kind of occupy this planet with hybrids
Speaker 2: failed apparently because they couldn't get hybrids that were viable
Speaker 2: based on a mixture of blue and red blood. And
Speaker 2: one of the places where this idea of blue blood
Speaker 2: comes in or green blood comes in, is in the
Speaker 2: star Trek. By the way, Spock was supposedly had copper
Speaker 2: based blood.
Speaker 1: But can't they just go some other planet that's good
Speaker 1: for blue blood aliens? And also where do they come from?
Speaker 2: Oh, this is a real nice this is a this
Speaker 2: is a nice planet. You know you I have a
Speaker 2: cartoon shows a gray standing there in space by the
Speaker 2: Earth and he says, that's the nice planet you have there.
Speaker 1: And you think they just really like this planet, like
Speaker 1: it's like some kind.
Speaker 2: Of water, a lot of water, a lot of resources.
Speaker 2: It's a nice, nice, big planet. And not only that
Speaker 2: it doesn't have dinosaurs running around eating anything that they see.
Speaker 2: It's a very bio friendly planet for somebody like them,
Speaker 2: especially because they're short. And so we have that group.
Speaker 2: Then we have another group straight out of Star Trek,
Speaker 2: the equivalent to the Vulcans. They are our cousins, apparently.
Speaker 2: And I had conversations in Washington, d C. With people
Speaker 2: who I knew were absolutely experien professionals in the intel business,
Speaker 2: who told me there are people down on Earth. You
Speaker 2: could walk by them on the street, you would never
Speaker 2: notice them. And they're not from this planet. They are
Speaker 2: basic and you can't tell them genetically from human beings.
Speaker 2: In fact, we're part them, and they call them. Some
Speaker 2: people call them Nordic's. I call them just the Plyatheians.
Speaker 2: And you notice in Star Trek, and they even commented
Speaker 2: on this that a lot of the beings they encountered
Speaker 2: in the outer space were basically very very human, like
Speaker 2: the Vulcans being the primary example. Spock's mother was human
Speaker 2: and his father was Vulcan. They got together, got married
Speaker 2: and produced a healthy kid. And so so that's that's
Speaker 2: another group. And they're apparently are friends. They're helping us.
Speaker 1: That one't surprises me but also does at the same time,
Speaker 1: like I would expect that aliens would be so different
Speaker 1: from us, But at the same time, the one that
Speaker 1: would streak me out the most is if they looked
Speaker 1: just like us where they were. And I think that
Speaker 1: that's believable because I look around at people and I
Speaker 1: wonder if they're an alien. Sometimes I look at them
Speaker 1: and I go, if that person was an alien, I
Speaker 1: would not be able to tell like you know they
Speaker 1: You can't you can't so much variety.
Speaker 2: According to what I was told, you can't tell them
Speaker 2: apart from human beings by blood type or genetics and
Speaker 2: and uh. They said this was a concern because they
Speaker 2: thought they were getting security clearances and becoming involved with
Speaker 2: the government and they wanted They actually asked me because
Speaker 2: of my Mars. Because I was of my Mars work,
Speaker 2: I was considered kind of an expert on ets, and
Speaker 2: they said, do you have any uh And by the way.
Speaker 1: The Martian et expert John Brandenburg.
Speaker 2: Well, the the the Martian or the what I call
Speaker 2: the Sidonian civilization up on Mars, they look just like us. Well,
Speaker 2: they didn't look like lizards. But the thing is Okay,
Speaker 2: so so there's people like us who are apparently our cousins.
Speaker 2: Somebody said, oh, they look like us, and I said, no,
Speaker 2: they look like them because because of shortly back in
Speaker 2: the back in the day, and there's always uh Greek
Speaker 2: legends like that.
Speaker 1: Now real quick, uh, I want to know if there's
Speaker 1: any other theories, because you're competing with some pretty pretty
Speaker 1: out there ones. I like the weird ones. Uh. Jason
Speaker 1: Georgohnny thinks that humans from the future went back to
Speaker 1: the past and made Atlantic and that we've got kind
Speaker 1: of thing. Okay, okay, the other one.
Speaker 2: And then and did he did he talk about when
Speaker 2: they crash and the desert and the coyotes eat their bodies.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm this is all some kind of somebody was saying this,
Speaker 2: these are holographic simulations or these are humans from the future,
Speaker 2: and I said, yeah, with copper based blood there from
Speaker 2: the future.
Speaker 1: Okay, what about maybe they made those aliens. I don't know,
Speaker 1: you said they're organic aid guy, what if a hive
Speaker 1: mind has taken over and the hive mind can literally
Speaker 1: just like three D print the UFOs straight out of the.
Speaker 2: I'm sure there's a certain amount of that. They say
Speaker 2: that the real pros among the ets three D print
Speaker 2: or UFOs here at Earth for using Earth materials, so
Speaker 2: the isotopes all match. So if you get pieces of
Speaker 2: crash ufo, you'll just say, well, this aluminum just looks
Speaker 2: like regular aluminum from an aircraft. Isotopically you can tell
Speaker 2: stuff where if stuff is from off world, like meteorites,
Speaker 2: because it has different isotopes, then stuff.
Speaker 1: I'll ask you about that. But before we do that,
Speaker 1: and into that the Mars stuff that we can finish
Speaker 1: with that, I mean, I have a simpler answer. It's us,
Speaker 1: like we've figured this out, like the why why we
Speaker 1: dismissed that? I'm literally talking to you John Brandenberg right now.
Speaker 1: You knew Winnterberg. You know all these scientists you're you're
Speaker 1: looking at stuff. Why is the answer not just like hey,
Speaker 1: you're just spitting this tale about aliens because you know
Speaker 1: we've figured this out and you've worked on these secret
Speaker 1: projects and like you can't talk about it, Like why why.
Speaker 2: Isn't that There's there's very little that I worked on
Speaker 2: that I can't talk about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know people, but by the way, I was never.
Speaker 2: Read into the UFO programs, so I can you know,
Speaker 2: I actually I'm not violating into security. Was talking about it,
Speaker 2: you know, like I said, they said, go ahead and
Speaker 2: write about what we want in this novel as long
Speaker 2: as it's labeled science fiction. John And so they you know,
Speaker 2: they gave me that. I tend to. I know that
Speaker 2: we can travel to other planets. We went to the
Speaker 2: Moon six times. I believe that, and we may have
Speaker 2: gone farther with alien technology. Who knows, you know, the
Speaker 2: idea of somebody else could Why.
Speaker 1: Didn't lose the technology to go to the moon though, right,
Speaker 1: you don't think that, right, you know.
Speaker 2: We may have been told not to go back to
Speaker 2: the moon, but there were also there were geopolitical reasons.
Speaker 2: We have a space treaty called the Outer Space. We
Speaker 2: actually have a treaty outer space treaty called the Outer
Speaker 2: Space Treaty of nineteen sixty seven, which was ratified by Congress,
Speaker 2: signed by the Russians, signed by the Chinese, and by
Speaker 2: every European UH country. And it's UH. It's it's basically
Speaker 2: says you can't claim like the Moon or Mars as
Speaker 2: national territory. It also says you can't put nuclear weapons
Speaker 2: in space and uh so it's a uh well.
Speaker 1: So the question though, is like, do you really think
Speaker 1: that we don't have I mean the military, US military, China.
Speaker 1: Do you think we've got anti gravity technology? Yes? I do, yes, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2: So by the way, when I would do.
Speaker 1: With us, why does it have to be aliens when
Speaker 1: we're seeing stuff flying around or do you think that
Speaker 1: there's a mixture?
Speaker 2: Oh, the because of the accounts of if it was
Speaker 2: just US, I think it would have been classified a
Speaker 2: long time ago. But because of the alien aspect that
Speaker 2: people are general people in the government. Once the toothpaste
Speaker 2: is out of the tube, you cannot put it back in.
Speaker 2: If if it comes out that the government knows we're
Speaker 2: being visited by people from outer space who are more
Speaker 2: advanced than us, it kind of quells into question who
Speaker 2: is the chief rooster in this root in this henhouse?
Speaker 2: You know, is it the US government or is it
Speaker 2: somebody from outer space? You know, they people start asking,
Speaker 2: you know, we thought we were at the top of
Speaker 2: the food chain. Apparently no, there's other links in the
Speaker 2: food chain. You know, there's there's powers above the powers
Speaker 2: on Earth, and no power on Earth likes to be demoted.
Speaker 1: Yeah, most of us are at the bottom, and we
Speaker 1: don't care who our ruler is if it's somebody else
Speaker 1: on another planet. Now I get it. He might be
Speaker 1: saying that, you know, our government might be ready to
Speaker 1: battle with the space aliens. You know, that would actually
Speaker 1: track with what Salvatar Pais has been saying about human technology.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, well, the we apparently are involved in a
Speaker 3: low level conflict with the Grays, and we've been there
Speaker 3: for a long time, and we finally we tried to
Speaker 3: we tried to make nice with him with a treaty,
Speaker 3: and then we found out that were violating the treaty.
Speaker 2: And then this culminated in this supposed military clash in
Speaker 2: a place called Dulce, New Mexico. And based on what
Speaker 2: I heard in Washington, d C. That really did happen.
Speaker 2: I heard several accounts, and basically the only difference between
Speaker 2: the accounts was the body count. Some people said, oh,
Speaker 2: sixty humans got killed. Other people said, oh no, it's
Speaker 2: more like one hundred. And the other people said, oh no,
Speaker 2: we only lost five. The aliens lost lost sixty. On
Speaker 2: and on it went, and you basically just kind of
Speaker 2: take the basic story and apparently. By the way, this
Speaker 2: tracks with Hollywood. Apparently during the Secret Treaty regime, which
Speaker 2: lasted apparently from nineteen sixty eight into about nineteen seventy
Speaker 2: nine seventy eight, Close they Hollywood celebrated this by Close
Speaker 2: Encounters of the Third Kind, which is a love fest
Speaker 2: between ends with a love fest between the humans and
Speaker 2: the little gray aliens. Okay, then you fast Okay, that
Speaker 2: comes out in nineteen seventy seven. Then there's the Clash
Speaker 2: at Dulce where everything goes to pieces. It was under
Speaker 2: Jimmy Carter. And what's the next big movie about aliens
Speaker 2: to come out. It's the movie Alien, which is about
Speaker 2: you know, we're back to bloodsucking aliens, utter betrayal by
Speaker 2: the authorities of humans, you know, And that's that's If
Speaker 2: you watch Close Encounters of the Third Kind it's from
Speaker 2: seventy seven, and then Alien from seventy nine, you get
Speaker 2: some idea of what happened.
Speaker 1: Well, I look at it and I just go, you know,
Speaker 1: if these aliens exist, they really are shy and camera shy.
Speaker 1: At least nobody's finding it making any video shoot them, well,
Speaker 1: not taking videos. I'm not seeing any of them online.
Speaker 1: But you know, if they look like us, that solves
Speaker 1: that problem. Now, let me yes drop the last topic here,
Speaker 1: which is the Mars topic, because so I'm just going
Speaker 1: to summarize my understanding of your book about Mars that
Speaker 1: because there's certain isotopes that are found within the atmosphere,
Speaker 1: I believe this shows that there was very likely, if
Speaker 1: not certainly, nuclear explosions that happened on Mars. Could explain
Speaker 1: why there's no magnetic field, maybe, but really, so real quick,
Speaker 1: the story is that there was a civilization on Mars
Speaker 1: in the past. They potentially destroyed themselves with nuclear weaponry,
Speaker 1: and perhaps they came transported and came over to Earth
Speaker 1: and now we are them or something like that. Is
Speaker 1: that go ahead and fill the gap.
Speaker 2: I you're I agree with the basic idea that there
Speaker 2: was a dead there's a dead civilization on Mars, and
Speaker 2: it dates from a time when Mars had an earth
Speaker 2: like climate. I'm the discover of the Mars Ocean. By
Speaker 2: the way, one of the reasons I uh hold academia
Speaker 2: in this country in a little bit of disregard is uh,
Speaker 2: you know, they won't give me credit for discovering the
Speaker 2: Bars Ocean, even though I if you if a look
Speaker 2: on in Wikipedia of Mars Ocean theory, I'm reference number one.
Speaker 2: You know, I was the first person to propose it,
Speaker 2: but they never give me any credit. And because of
Speaker 2: my other work on Mars. Now it looks though as
Speaker 2: though there was a primitive humanoid civilization on Mars predating
Speaker 2: the dinosaurs, which shows that the basic human form predates
Speaker 2: humans on Earth. Humans are a superterrestrial phenomenon. But you've
Speaker 2: got to realize we're very practical. Look how many places
Speaker 2: on Earth humans live. We're a very practical, rugged bunch.
Speaker 2: But is it? It appears? And by the way, I've
Speaker 2: shown the evidence I have for the Thermer Nucletar holocaust
Speaker 2: on Mars to nuclear experts, several of them, and they
Speaker 2: agree with me, but they can't be quoted on the record.
Speaker 1: So are you saying that they wipe themselves out and
Speaker 1: they're gone, or are you saying that no remnants made
Speaker 1: it to Earth or do you just not know or
Speaker 1: not care?
Speaker 2: What's your Oh? It based on the evidence that I have,
Speaker 2: I'm trying to analyze this is just a scientific problem.
Speaker 2: They look like us because human beings are a super
Speaker 2: terrestrial kind of phenomenon in the stars, just like in
Speaker 2: Star Trek. But these people were fairly primitive. They did
Speaker 2: not have nuclear weapons themselves, they did not have space travel. Basically,
Speaker 2: what we find is what looks like a fairly Bronze
Speaker 2: Age or Stone Age, and we're talking old Kingdom Egypt
Speaker 2: or the Mayans or the Toll texts from Mexico, Old
Speaker 2: Mexico kind of civilization. And then it looks as though
Speaker 2: someone else came along and dropped two hydrogen bombs as
Speaker 2: big as the Empire state building on Mars, utterly destroying
Speaker 2: the civilization there, and not only that, but destroying the
Speaker 2: entire biosphere of Mars so it could never recover.
Speaker 1: Now are taking the inference that they only had a
Speaker 1: certain level of technology and that somebody else did that.
Speaker 1: What's the evidence, Well.
Speaker 2: There's no there's no evidence of any highways, the there's
Speaker 2: things that look like fortifications, but they're built on high ground.
Speaker 2: It all looks there's no indications like airports.
Speaker 1: Or you're talking about the topology of the planet of
Speaker 1: Mars itself. You're not right.
Speaker 2: It does not look like this was an advanced civilization,
Speaker 2: which makes it even more sad that apparently somebody who
Speaker 2: was very advanced came along destroyed them. And this means
Speaker 2: that it was somebody who's been somebody like the Pladeons,
Speaker 2: who are basically human, they would have probably just conquered it,
Speaker 2: but instead this is somebody who was very non human. Supposedly,
Speaker 2: these reptilian aliens that you know, there's very hardly any
Speaker 2: stories about them, but apparently they do exist. But the
Speaker 2: either the Grays or the reptilian aliens, somebody who did
Speaker 2: not like human beings at all decided to make an
Speaker 2: example out of Mars. Genghis Khan would make if a
Speaker 2: city resisted him, he would kill everybody in the city
Speaker 2: and make pyramids of heads, just as to terrorize everybody,
Speaker 2: so that the next city he approached, he'd knock on
Speaker 2: the gates and say to open your gates, give us
Speaker 2: all your stuff, otherwise you'll end up like the last city,
Speaker 2: you know, as a pyramid of heads will kill everybody.
Speaker 2: And so this is a weapon orization.
Speaker 1: Wouldn't you just take out the whole planet if you
Speaker 1: have that kind of advanced level of technology, why are
Speaker 1: you dropping nukes? Like again, it just feels like we're
Speaker 1: taking our level understanding, we're pretending like it's the highest
Speaker 1: level of technology that's out there. If your civilization coming
Speaker 1: by doing a drive by bombing, I feel like you
Speaker 1: should easily be able to wipe Mars out, Like Mars
Speaker 1: isn't there anymore, We would never have any trees.
Speaker 2: Ash did. Why turn it into a black hole? Why
Speaker 2: turn Mars into a black hole when all you need
Speaker 2: to do is just destroy everything on the surface. You know,
Speaker 2: it's like, uh, you know what you're what you're talking
Speaker 2: about is somebody taking the planet Mars and turning it
Speaker 2: into a black hole. You know that that's there's a
Speaker 2: there's a there's like a zero point energy weapon would
Speaker 2: do something like that. And uh no, no they didn't
Speaker 2: bother with that. They just hydrogen bombs are easy to build.
Speaker 2: The Russians basically showed by the way you could build
Speaker 2: hydrogen bombs as uh big as the aircraft carrier Enterprise.
Speaker 1: And let me ask you this because this is how
Speaker 1: I kind of want to This is my final question
Speaker 1: for you. Okay, do you think we are going to
Speaker 1: annihilate ourselves? Do you think we're gonna get past the
Speaker 1: Fermi paradox and the great filter?
Speaker 2: Yes? Yes?
Speaker 1: And why do you believe that.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, we're talking fundamentally about things we can't know.
Speaker 2: We we can't know what's really going to happen in
Speaker 2: the future. But I'm religious. I'm just an episcopalian, you know. Uh.
Speaker 2: And and you know, Bible prophecy basically says the human
Speaker 2: race is around in the future getting in the same
Speaker 2: kind of trouble it gets in now, you know. And
Speaker 2: and by the way, you know, Ai is in the Bible.
Speaker 2: There's a city called Ai in the Book of Joshua.
Speaker 2: You should read about it. It's actually spelled Ai. And
Speaker 2: so I'm not worried about Ai destroying us, though I
Speaker 2: think we should be very careful about that. So I
Speaker 2: think the human race is going to do fine. I
Speaker 2: think the vision for the human future is star Trek.
Speaker 2: That's the way we're going to be.
Speaker 1: Okay, I appreciate that I'm not as optimistic as you are.
Speaker 1: I think I look around and I see the destructive
Speaker 1: capability that we are able of unleashing, and I think
Speaker 1: that inevitably, it's just a matter of time until somebody
Speaker 1: presses the wrong button, everything's gone, just like But I
Speaker 1: prefer that let's talk to people that are more optimistic
Speaker 1: than I have.
Speaker 2: I'm quite optimistic. I think with God's help, we'll get
Speaker 2: through this.
Speaker 1: So go ahead and shout out whatever else you want
Speaker 1: or where people can find you. I appreciate you talking
Speaker 1: to me today. Doctor Brandenburg. Has been a great conversation, Ashton.
Speaker 1: It's been a pleasure and honor to be on your show.
Speaker 1: I wrote a book called Cosmic Awakening. It's available on
Speaker 1: Amazon dot com. I also wrote the science fiction novel
Speaker 1: in two thousand and three called Morning Star Pass to
Speaker 1: Collapse of the UFO cover Up, and we're going to
Speaker 1: turn it into a movie. Two beautiful women who are
Speaker 1: news anchors bring down the UFO cover up.
Speaker 2: There you go.
Speaker 1: It sounds like a bestseller already blockbuster, so I hope
Speaker 1: it does well. Let me know and I'll check it
Speaker 1: out promoter for you, uh, Doctor Brandonburg. Thank you very much. Guys.
Speaker 1: This was another episode of Hard Trew's podcast. Make sure
Speaker 1: you hit the like, hit the subscribe, follow Doctor Brandenburg
Speaker 1: and we'll talk again soon.