WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>We talk about bringing two hundred and forty billion dollars

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<v Speaker 1>of real estate on chain, Like, what exactly does that mean.

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<v Speaker 1>We're actually tokenizing every property in Bergen County, and we're

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<v Speaker 1>tokenizing the legal instruments and indexing them per property. So now,

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<v Speaker 1>over time that two hundred and forty billion dollars will

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<v Speaker 1>be able to interact with the broader tokenized economy that

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<v Speaker 1>we all know is coming, which will open the door

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<v Speaker 1>to faster settlements, real time recordings, fractionalization of these assets,

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<v Speaker 1>decentralized collateralization of these assets, which will bring liquidity, stable,

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<v Speaker 1>token and crypto based settlements on these assets, all while

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<v Speaker 1>maintaining the same trust and legal recognition that underpins real

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<v Speaker 1>world real estate today.

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<v Speaker 2>This episode is brought to you by Uphold, which is

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<v Speaker 2>about Uphold and all the great services they offer, visit

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<v Speaker 2>the link in the description. Hey folks, welcome into the

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<v Speaker 2>Thinking Crypto podcast. I'm your host Tony Edward and we

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<v Speaker 2>are recording at Station three in New York's Financial District,

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<v Speaker 2>and my guest today is Dan Silverman, who is the

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<v Speaker 2>co founder and co CEO of Balcony.

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<v Speaker 3>Dan, great to have.

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<v Speaker 1>You, great to be here, Man, Thank you for doing this,

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you for putting on this podcast. I think that

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<v Speaker 1>education is really the most important thing in our space

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<v Speaker 1>right now, and by platforming. You know, leaders in the space,

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<v Speaker 1>you're really allowing for that education to happen, so appreciate you.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, man, I am excited to speak with you. And

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<v Speaker 2>the reason I came across balcony I read the headline

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<v Speaker 2>earlier this year that you and some other folks were

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<v Speaker 2>working on tokenizing hundreds of millions of dollars of real

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<v Speaker 2>estate on chain and Dan, I'm excited to get into

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<v Speaker 2>the details of that. But let's kick it off with

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<v Speaker 2>your background. Tell us a bit about yourself.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure, So I come from a real estate development background.

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<v Speaker 1>My family started in Hoboken, New Jersey City in the eighties.

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<v Speaker 1>My dad just had this vision. He saw that people

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<v Speaker 1>would be priced out of Manhattan and he started buying

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<v Speaker 1>and developing real estate right across the river. So, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I grew up in that world. You know, that was

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<v Speaker 1>my career path, and I graduated college started working for him.

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<v Speaker 1>He was kind of in and out of retirement at

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<v Speaker 1>the time, so I ended up starting my own thing,

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<v Speaker 1>took over his book of business, started my full service

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<v Speaker 1>real estate company, doing everything from property management, maintenance, brokerage,

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<v Speaker 1>to ground up development throughout the state of New Jersey.

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<v Speaker 2>And given your background in real estate. I'm curious when

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<v Speaker 2>along the timeline did you come across blockchain and crypto.

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<v Speaker 1>So I was twenty seventeen. I remember that at the

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<v Speaker 1>time Bitcoin had just set a new all time high,

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<v Speaker 1>which is two thousand dollars, and I was like, huh,

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<v Speaker 1>that's interesting. I had heard about bitcoin in the past,

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<v Speaker 1>and this time it really caught my attention, and it

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<v Speaker 1>was kind of like a funny reason as to why

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<v Speaker 1>it caught my attention. So the same day that I

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<v Speaker 1>heard that news, I was listening to Elon Musk talking

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<v Speaker 1>about colonizing Mars and it's crazy. But where my head

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<v Speaker 1>went was like, huh, you know, wait a minute. If

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to colonize Mars like he's taught talking about,

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<v Speaker 1>we're not going to have a fiat or gold based

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<v Speaker 1>currency system there. It'll be impossible to actually ship gold

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<v Speaker 1>to Mars. It'll cost more to send the gold there

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<v Speaker 1>than the gold is actually worth or the fiat paper money.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like to truly have this kind of type one

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<v Speaker 1>digital currency that's interplanetary, which I know sounds sounds far fetched,

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<v Speaker 1>but you know it is. It is coming right. It

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<v Speaker 1>needs to be this frictionless currency that can move anywhere

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<v Speaker 1>in the world or even across worlds in a way

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<v Speaker 1>that has no friction. And that was kind of the

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<v Speaker 1>first moment that I was like, you know, I should

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<v Speaker 1>buy bitcoin, and I'm going to look at it with

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<v Speaker 1>really a real estate mentality. I'm going to hold it

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<v Speaker 1>for the long term, for that crazy future that I imagine,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm not going to flip it if the price

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<v Speaker 1>doubles or triples or goes one hundred.

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<v Speaker 2>X, right, And it's just a great point. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>the world is becoming more digital, not less. We both

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<v Speaker 2>have kids, and the world they're growing up in they

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<v Speaker 2>don't know about necessarily the analog or offline world imersed

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<v Speaker 2>in online and digital. And to your point, if we're

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<v Speaker 2>entering the space exploration era of the human history or

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<v Speaker 2>human timeline, we're not going to be here's a dollar,

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<v Speaker 2>paper money in space, come out instant settlement on the block.

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<v Speaker 1>They were born into a world where bitcoin exists, stable

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<v Speaker 1>tokens exist, NFTs exist. This will be normal for them

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<v Speaker 1>as they grow up, you know, completely.

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<v Speaker 3>Normal, absolutely.

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<v Speaker 2>And then with that revolution, you know, comes the tokenization

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<v Speaker 2>and putting traditional assets so to speak, if you want

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<v Speaker 2>to call it that like real estate, light, gold, and

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<v Speaker 2>other things on chain to allow them to be able

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<v Speaker 2>to be settled or move faster or transact better.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, yep, exactly, and really like, you know, so twenty

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<v Speaker 1>seventeen I started buying bitcoin. I saw they did the

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<v Speaker 1>first real estate fractionalization deal that year, so they fractionalized

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<v Speaker 1>the Saint Regis Hotel and Aspen. So that was kind

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<v Speaker 1>of the first thing that caught my attension that maybe

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<v Speaker 1>there's a crossover between my career and my hobby, which

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<v Speaker 1>is investing in crypto, right, And I started like really

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<v Speaker 1>studying what the blockchain does, and I realized that cryptocurrency

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<v Speaker 1>is an application of blockchain, but there's other applications, and

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<v Speaker 1>blockchain infrastructure could be applied to the aging real estate

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<v Speaker 1>structure that I knew is archaic and old school, and

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<v Speaker 1>it could fix a lot of the problems that I

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<v Speaker 1>knew to exist. And then a couple of years later,

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<v Speaker 1>I kind of like just check mark that in my brain.

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, maybe, you know, I could revisit this

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<v Speaker 1>at some point A few years later. It was like

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<v Speaker 1>ended twenty twenty, I learned about non fungible tokens, and

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<v Speaker 1>that was like the light bulb moment for me because

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<v Speaker 1>I realized that real estate is non fungible. Every single

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<v Speaker 1>real estate deal is unique based on the different attributes

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<v Speaker 1>that make it unique. So a real estate deal you know,

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<v Speaker 1>has different rent role, it has different unit mix, unit count, zoning, location,

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<v Speaker 1>all these things are unique attributes that make real estate

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<v Speaker 1>non fungible. So the proper way to tokenize or digitize

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<v Speaker 1>real estate is with a non fungible token as opposed

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<v Speaker 1>to fungible token. And furthermore, the d to your home,

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<v Speaker 1>which is just a flimsy piece of paper that authentic

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<v Speaker 1>case ownership over your most valuable asset and is also

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<v Speaker 1>non fungible. Because every deed is unique, I knew would

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<v Speaker 1>eventually become an NFT, it would live on a distributed ledger,

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<v Speaker 1>and you'd be able to transfer ownership in a way

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<v Speaker 1>that's undisputable.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that absolutely makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>And to your point, you highlighted some of the pitfalls

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<v Speaker 2>or archaic ways that we've done things, and look, at

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<v Speaker 2>one point in our timeline that worked right, but we

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<v Speaker 2>keep progressing and evolving and we're seeing some of the

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<v Speaker 2>areas that need to be improved, and blockchain can certainly

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<v Speaker 2>solve that. A major issue a lot of people run

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<v Speaker 2>into is fraud as well when it comes to the

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<v Speaker 2>real estate industry. So tell us a bit about how

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<v Speaker 2>blockchain can solve some of that fraud problem.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Absolutely, So when you tokenize an asset, let's say

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<v Speaker 1>a deed, right, it becomes provably authentic. It's a one

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<v Speaker 1>of one original. So with the rise and generative AI,

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<v Speaker 1>it's never been easier to fabricate documents and make them

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<v Speaker 1>completely indistinguishable from reality. So when you have a tokenized

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<v Speaker 1>deed and it lives on the blockchain and it originated

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<v Speaker 1>from the governing body that's responsible for housing and maintaining

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<v Speaker 1>these records, you could prove its authenticity. And because of that,

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<v Speaker 1>we're able to over time eliminate things like deed fraud

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<v Speaker 1>or mortgage fraud.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Dan, I have a confession to make, and I

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<v Speaker 2>hope you know, the prosecutors anybody don't come after me.

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<v Speaker 2>But there was a point I worked at a mortgage

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<v Speaker 2>broker and I did a loan processing and I remember

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<v Speaker 2>some people using some white out on certain things.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and then scan it and the photoshop it.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to name names, but those things happened.

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<v Speaker 2>But if you put the blockchain in place, it can

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<v Speaker 2>help mitigate a lot of that.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely. I mean we're entering an era where it will

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<v Speaker 1>be impossible to tell what's real and what's fake if

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<v Speaker 1>not for the blockchain. The blockchain is this ultimate truth machine,

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<v Speaker 1>as you may have heard like it referred to, and

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<v Speaker 1>that's the beauty of it. You can't fake things on

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<v Speaker 1>the blockchain, and it's never been easier to fake things.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>And in addition, do you see a world where you

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<v Speaker 2>have the counties, the states, and folks like yourself, the

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<v Speaker 2>realtors and so forth, all connected on a blockchain where

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<v Speaker 2>there's full transparency, there's no ambiguity. Everybody knows this document

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<v Speaker 2>is what it is, and we can move it in

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<v Speaker 2>lightning speed.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I mean that's literally our mission to modernize the

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<v Speaker 1>world's property records and infrastructure, bringing land records and just

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<v Speaker 1>the entire process of conveying ownership and all the parties

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<v Speaker 1>that are involved with that process, bringing them on chain.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think it's going to happen in a way

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<v Speaker 1>that's subtle, like people aren't going to realize they're using

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<v Speaker 1>the blockchain. It's just going to be a faster, cheaper,

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<v Speaker 1>more efficient, more transparent way to conduct business.

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<v Speaker 2>And could we see a day where the process is

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<v Speaker 2>so streamlined and so fast and transparent because we can

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<v Speaker 2>trust each other. Because it's a blockchain, that I can

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<v Speaker 2>be in another part of the world and buy a

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<v Speaker 2>property in New York City and yes, I need to

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<v Speaker 2>see the three D view in the photos right and

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<v Speaker 2>know that I want to buy.

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<v Speaker 3>It, But I don't necessarily need to be there. I

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<v Speaker 3>could just do it digitally.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Absolutely, I think that blockchain will streamline due diligence,

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<v Speaker 1>It'll streamline settlements, it'll streamline the title process, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>doing title searches, which is cumbersome right now and expensive

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<v Speaker 1>and takes time. So by streamlining all these processes, it'll

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<v Speaker 1>still be difficult to settle immediately on real estate because

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<v Speaker 1>it's a little more complex than you know, other RW

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<v Speaker 1>ways that are being tokenized, of course, but we can

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<v Speaker 1>get to a point where there's near instant settlement and

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<v Speaker 1>there's a very short gap between deciding you want to

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<v Speaker 1>buy a property and actually closing on it.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, right, the process can maybe be way shorter

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<v Speaker 2>than it is currently.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, absolutely, you know, I think that what people don't

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<v Speaker 1>realize is there's two steps to the process of actually

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<v Speaker 1>closing on real estate. There's the settlement and at the

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<v Speaker 1>settlement and that's when the title agents put together the

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<v Speaker 1>closing money is es road, title changes hands, legal conveyance happens,

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<v Speaker 1>and then there's the actual recording of it. So then

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<v Speaker 1>the package gets sent to the county clerk's office, the

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<v Speaker 1>deeds get recorded there, and then it officially becomes recognized

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<v Speaker 1>as a transfer of ownership. However, sometimes there's as much

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<v Speaker 1>as a ninety day gap or more in between the

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<v Speaker 1>settlement and the closing because of these bottlenecks that exist,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's obviously extremely inefficient and it opens the door

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<v Speaker 1>for more more realms of fraud.

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<v Speaker 2>Then I've been through the process two times buying a

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<v Speaker 2>condo and in a house. So if we can speed

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<v Speaker 2>up that process and make it easier, I think it

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<v Speaker 2>will save a lot of people a lot of stress

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<v Speaker 2>at yeah time question and make things more efficient for all.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I've in my real estate life, I've had

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<v Speaker 1>deals that almost fell through because the day of the closing,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, someone realized they have to go into the

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<v Speaker 1>bank to actually do the wire transfer, and the bank

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<v Speaker 1>is like, hey, you have to set an appointment, come

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<v Speaker 1>back tomorrow and it's the time of the essence clothes,

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<v Speaker 1>we need to close today, and they have no way

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<v Speaker 1>to actually wire funds.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and you.

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<v Speaker 2>Look at that and you're like, man, the solutions here,

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<v Speaker 2>stable coins, blockchain and all that, right, you can get

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<v Speaker 2>that done faster. But you know it's crawl walk run, right,

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<v Speaker 2>We're getting there now. Earlier this year you the news

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<v Speaker 2>of Balcony working to get Bergen County properties two hundred

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<v Speaker 2>and forty billion in properties on the blockchain using Avalanche. Yep,

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<v Speaker 2>tell us about the details there. Why Bergen County, Why

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<v Speaker 2>Avalanche as well?

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<v Speaker 1>Yep. So I'll start with Avalanche. So there we're building

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<v Speaker 1>our l one on Avalanche. They've been great partners to us,

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<v Speaker 1>and they allow you to fully customize your blockchain. So

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<v Speaker 1>it's never been easier to kind of spin up a

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<v Speaker 1>blockchain and create your own controls and permissions, which is

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<v Speaker 1>really essential for when you're dealing with government records. Of course. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>Bergen County, it's the largest county in the state of

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<v Speaker 1>New Jersey. You know, being a real estate developer in

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<v Speaker 1>New Jersey, I have relationships throughout the state, so it

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<v Speaker 1>was a target of ours. And we met with the

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<v Speaker 1>county Clerk, John Hogan. His name is I got to

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<v Speaker 1>shout him out because it's really his leadership that enabled

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<v Speaker 1>us to get to this point. And sure we realized that,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, we started working together and we realized that

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<v Speaker 1>there was a big opportunity there. He's always been at

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<v Speaker 1>the forefront of technological advancement. Three years before the state

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<v Speaker 1>mandated e files, they implemented it in Bergen County and

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<v Speaker 1>then the state mandated it. So he's always looking out

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<v Speaker 1>for his citizens and trying to protect them, and he

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<v Speaker 1>realized that blockchain is a way to actually protect his

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<v Speaker 1>citizens and their property rights. So we entered into a

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<v Speaker 1>five year engagement with the Bergen County Clerk's office to

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<v Speaker 1>migrate their deed processing onto the blockchain. It's the largest

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<v Speaker 1>blockchain deed initiative in US history, and the goal is

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<v Speaker 1>to create a permanent, immutable chain of title that preserves

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<v Speaker 1>record integrity, mitigates deed and mortgage fraud, and provides real

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<v Speaker 1>trust and transparency to citizens. So, like I mentioned, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>the blockchain is this ultimate truth machine. And when you

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<v Speaker 1>have documents that provably originated on chain from the governing

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<v Speaker 1>body that's responsible for housing and maintaining these records. And

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<v Speaker 1>you have a permanent and unalterable chain of title that

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<v Speaker 1>can't be disrupted from some natural disaster or by a

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<v Speaker 1>ransomware attack or hack. And you have you know, authenticated

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<v Speaker 1>documents that are tokenized and are provably original, and you

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<v Speaker 1>have this real, underlying source of truth that protects citizens

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<v Speaker 1>and their property rights.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>So you mentioned building that I think avalanche. They call

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<v Speaker 2>it subnets if I'm not mistaken.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they used to. Now they call them l ones

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<v Speaker 1>oh once.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So with building your l one balcony, is is

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<v Speaker 2>that a private chain? So can anyone access the information

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<v Speaker 2>or is there certain guardrails?

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<v Speaker 1>There're certain guardrails. So it's very important for real estate.

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<v Speaker 1>Of course, when you know, if you're buying real estate,

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<v Speaker 1>we need to know who you are. So anybody there's

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<v Speaker 1>certain data that the normal people will be able to consume. Sure,

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<v Speaker 1>but to contribute data to our network or to claim

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<v Speaker 1>ownership over your asset, you need to prove who you are.

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<v Speaker 1>Or if you're a business like a title company or

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<v Speaker 1>a brokerage that eventually will be interacting on our network,

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<v Speaker 1>you need to KYB yourself and we need to know

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<v Speaker 1>who you are, and that way, when data is being

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<v Speaker 1>originated from you, we know that it's approvably authentic source.

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<v Speaker 2>So are you who are part of the authentication process?

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<v Speaker 2>Is it Balcony and the.

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<v Speaker 1>County, Balcony, the County and chain Link. Actually that's part

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<v Speaker 1>of our partnership with chain Link, So you know, Balconies

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<v Speaker 1>in the business of tokenizing real estate. At the asset level,

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<v Speaker 1>any piece of real estate is composed of its authoritative documents,

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<v Speaker 1>its ownership records, lean surveys, permits, and other legal instruments.

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<v Speaker 1>So without bringing all of this on chain, you can't

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<v Speaker 1>truly have a digitally native asset that could be programmed against.

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<v Speaker 1>So in order to bring this on chain and verify it,

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<v Speaker 1>we partnered with Chainlink. So anytime we source data from

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<v Speaker 1>one of our government partners like Bergen County, chain Link

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<v Speaker 1>Oracle will act as an independent validator of source provedance

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<v Speaker 1>and data integrity. That way, anybody can authenticate the origin

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<v Speaker 1>and the authenticity of the official record and know that

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<v Speaker 1>it hasn't been tampered with.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, so it's amazing. As you're saying that, I'm just

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<v Speaker 2>thinking you're using two blockchain protocols and the reason why

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<v Speaker 2>I bring that up. Some people are like one blockchain

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<v Speaker 2>to rule them all, but no, it's going to be

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<v Speaker 2>a multi chain world. I totally do eight different things.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Absolutely. And then you know the cool thing we

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<v Speaker 1>talk about bringing two hundred and forty billion dollars of

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<v Speaker 1>real estate on chain, Like, what exactly does that mean.

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<v Speaker 1>We're actually tokenizing every property in Bergen County and we're

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<v Speaker 1>tokenizing the legal instruments and indexing them per property. So now,

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<v Speaker 1>over time that two hundred and forty billion dollars will

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<v Speaker 1>be able to interact with the broader tokenize the economy

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<v Speaker 1>that we all know is coming, which will open the

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<v Speaker 1>door to to faster settlements, real time recordings, fractionalization of

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<v Speaker 1>these assets, decentralized collateralization of these assets, which will bring liquidity, stable,

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<v Speaker 1>token and crypto based settlements on these assets, all while

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<v Speaker 1>maintaining the same trust and legal recognition that underpins real

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<v Speaker 1>world real estate today.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, you brought up some great points there, because

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<v Speaker 2>this foundational layer of putting the deeds and having the

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<v Speaker 2>documents so they're verifiable is definitely a foundational layer of

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<v Speaker 2>where you can build on to your point of fractional

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<v Speaker 2>If someone wanted to fractionalize a commercial building or even

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<v Speaker 2>some sort of rental property or whatever it is, they

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<v Speaker 2>can do that because they have the foundation in place

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<v Speaker 2>to verify everything. And then people can say, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>is this indeed property owned by John A or John

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<v Speaker 2>Doe and all those things that we need to verify. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>And then to your point, then you mentioned it earlier,

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<v Speaker 2>we could potentially have NFTs that are like these living

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<v Speaker 2>documents that say if there are changes to the house,

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<v Speaker 2>when did it happen, who did it, who is the contract.

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<v Speaker 1>In Yeah, we were turning every property into an NFL

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<v Speaker 1>that becomes his digital vault or vessel for more information.

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<v Speaker 1>So over time, more information gets compiled in there, and

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<v Speaker 1>you have a real record of history that becomes permanent.

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<v Speaker 1>So you know, think twenty years in the future. You

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<v Speaker 1>have all this history now, so when you're doing due

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<v Speaker 1>diligence you usually look at the last two years. Now

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<v Speaker 1>you can look at everything and you don't need a

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<v Speaker 1>third party to verify it because you could see where

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<v Speaker 1>it originated from.

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<v Speaker 2>Dan, I can't wait for that, and because I have

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<v Speaker 2>my own experience anecdotally when buying a property and then

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<v Speaker 2>you know years are you're like, who installed this thing?

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<v Speaker 3>It's not up to code? Right, It's like, but it's hard.

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<v Speaker 3>Where do you go find that information?

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<v Speaker 2>The previous owner is gone, you can't go bother them,

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<v Speaker 2>and even if you ask them, they I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>who did it. But if you had an NFT that

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<v Speaker 2>was logging all these things and people were mandated to

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<v Speaker 2>log all these things, who's the contractor you use?

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<v Speaker 3>When did you do this upgrade? Electrical? What're plumbing?

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<v Speaker 1>And that environmental report?

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<v Speaker 2>Like stuff like that, right, I could easily go back

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<v Speaker 2>and say, Okay, this was the source of the problem.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely yep. And I think that like we're moving towards

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<v Speaker 1>the world of ton of like all our WA's being tokenized,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think a lot of these security token exchange

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<v Speaker 1>platforms are kind of moving away from real estate fractionalization

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<v Speaker 1>because it's difficult, it's complex. As I said before, it's

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<v Speaker 1>more complex and tokenizing other RWAs, So they've kind of

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<v Speaker 1>like moved away from it because there's not much liquidity.

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<v Speaker 1>But by doing what we're doing and giving the underlying

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<v Speaker 1>asset legal authority, kind of creating this provenance layer for

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<v Speaker 1>ownership records encumbrances and other verifiable data. We're really telling

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<v Speaker 1>the full story and we're streamlining the process of data.

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<v Speaker 1>So in turn, that'll open the floodgates for liquidity. And

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<v Speaker 1>I think that the future we're heading towards is people

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<v Speaker 1>being able to trade in and out of fractional property

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<v Speaker 1>shares right from their phone, the same way that they're

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<v Speaker 1>trading in out of stocks and crypto on Robinhood today.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't wait for that because I'm very curious. You know, well,

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<v Speaker 2>I give the example I've given to a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>people is if they tokenize certain properties in Manhattan because

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<v Speaker 2>it's prime real estate and you know, you get.

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<v Speaker 3>The scarce of the aspect. I'm going to buy some

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<v Speaker 3>of those tokens for those properties because as a long

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<v Speaker 3>term investment, I mean by hand it out to my kid.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, there's somewhat of like a trophy aspect to it, right,

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00:20:09.640 --> 00:20:12.680
<v Speaker 1>Like if you're going to tokenize the Chrysler building, yes,

400
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<v Speaker 1>you know you may you may pay more than what

401
00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:17.880
<v Speaker 1>it's actually worth because you want to own a piece

402
00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:21.640
<v Speaker 1>of it, so it could provide liquidity for developers, and

403
00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:24.079
<v Speaker 1>you know, you're you're owning part of a landmark which

404
00:20:24.119 --> 00:20:24.720
<v Speaker 1>is pretty cool.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, like Empire State Building as well, I'll do the

406
00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:31.039
<v Speaker 2>same thing. Yeah, and then the possibilities with this new

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<v Speaker 2>world token of the token economy and tokenization, you can

408
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<v Speaker 2>then put that asset to work with DeFi use it

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<v Speaker 2>as collateral and all that jazz.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly, that's where we're headed. Yeah, So it just

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<v Speaker 1>opens up bring liquidity to an e liquid asset class.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, and then not only that, the person who's in

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<v Speaker 2>some country in Africa or in Latin America who couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>access any of these things, and like man, I wish

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<v Speaker 2>I could own real estate overseas, but they don't have

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<v Speaker 2>a billion dollars or whatever. But if they can buy

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00:21:00.519 --> 00:21:03.960
<v Speaker 2>one thousand dollars of tokens in the Empire State Building,

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<v Speaker 2>that could be life changing for that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you get your proportionate share of the asset and

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00:21:08.920 --> 00:21:12.559
<v Speaker 1>your proportionate share of the operating income. So it allows

421
00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:16.039
<v Speaker 1>a much lower barrier to entry financially for anybody to

422
00:21:16.039 --> 00:21:18.960
<v Speaker 1>get involved. Right now, it's so difficult to buy real

423
00:21:19.039 --> 00:21:22.039
<v Speaker 1>estate because it's so capital intensive and there's so much

424
00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:25.240
<v Speaker 1>due diligence and so much maintenance. But if you have

425
00:21:25.319 --> 00:21:27.240
<v Speaker 1>a couple thousand bucks and you want to start building

426
00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:30.000
<v Speaker 1>a portfolio. You could invest in fractional shares of real

427
00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:32.480
<v Speaker 1>estate and you could cater your portfolio that any way

428
00:21:32.519 --> 00:21:34.359
<v Speaker 1>you want. You could own part of a hotel, you

429
00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:36.160
<v Speaker 1>could own part of a commercial building, you could own

430
00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:37.880
<v Speaker 1>part of a residential building, and so on.

431
00:21:38.200 --> 00:21:41.240
<v Speaker 2>Right, and then with the NFTs we talked about earlier,

432
00:21:41.319 --> 00:21:44.400
<v Speaker 2>you even if you're in one hundred thousand miles away,

433
00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:47.119
<v Speaker 2>you're not even going to be able to visit here, right,

434
00:21:47.400 --> 00:21:48.839
<v Speaker 2>you can verify everything.

435
00:21:48.519 --> 00:21:50.880
<v Speaker 3>From that NFT. Well, what did they do this month?

436
00:21:51.160 --> 00:21:53.279
<v Speaker 3>What upgrades did they make? Who did it and all

437
00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:53.680
<v Speaker 3>that stuff?

438
00:21:53.720 --> 00:21:55.599
<v Speaker 1>Right? Yep, yep, streamline due diligence.

439
00:21:56.039 --> 00:22:00.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, Wow, It's just I'm just thinking the smoke

440
00:22:00.640 --> 00:22:02.720
<v Speaker 2>is going up in my mind here right, Like, there's

441
00:22:02.759 --> 00:22:06.799
<v Speaker 2>so many possibilities here. So it's an amazing feature that's

442
00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:10.039
<v Speaker 2>being built here for all these properties. I'm curious about

443
00:22:10.680 --> 00:22:13.319
<v Speaker 2>what does the process look like of tokenizing deeds as

444
00:22:13.400 --> 00:22:14.160
<v Speaker 2>much as you can share.

445
00:22:14.680 --> 00:22:17.119
<v Speaker 3>Is it a very long Is it going to take

446
00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:18.440
<v Speaker 3>years or is it months?

447
00:22:19.480 --> 00:22:22.759
<v Speaker 1>It'll take longer than months, but shorter than years. I mean,

448
00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:25.079
<v Speaker 1>we have five years to get this done. We'll have

449
00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:28.400
<v Speaker 1>it operating you know, much quicker than that. The difficult

450
00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:32.000
<v Speaker 1>part is indexing historical deeds, which has actually been made

451
00:22:32.119 --> 00:22:35.200
<v Speaker 1>easier because of AI. So we're able right now, like

452
00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:38.000
<v Speaker 1>everything is kind of siloed in different systems and by

453
00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:40.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, indexed by book and page number instead of

454
00:22:40.519 --> 00:22:43.359
<v Speaker 1>indexed by parcel. So that's part of our problem we're

455
00:22:43.359 --> 00:22:45.960
<v Speaker 1>trying to solve, is indexing deeds properly so you could

456
00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:49.799
<v Speaker 1>tell the chronological order of history. And then once we

457
00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:53.599
<v Speaker 1>get there, it's about, you know, the go forward, putting

458
00:22:53.640 --> 00:22:57.480
<v Speaker 1>new deeds unchained and having them originate from the county directly.

459
00:22:57.640 --> 00:22:58.160
<v Speaker 3>Got it.

460
00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:02.960
<v Speaker 2>And then the the platform that Balcony has built, is

461
00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:06.319
<v Speaker 2>this something that you're going to go to other counties

462
00:23:06.680 --> 00:23:11.440
<v Speaker 2>even some places in Manhattan or Brooklyn, whatever. And in addition,

463
00:23:11.640 --> 00:23:14.200
<v Speaker 2>are you going to like white label this platform to say, hey,

464
00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:16.319
<v Speaker 2>the state of Las Vegas, you want to do the

465
00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:17.559
<v Speaker 2>same thing, use our platform?

466
00:23:17.640 --> 00:23:19.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Yeah, So we started in New Jersey because that's

467
00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:22.359
<v Speaker 1>where we're based out of, but we've already expanded outside.

468
00:23:22.359 --> 00:23:25.279
<v Speaker 1>We're working in Wyoming right now, we're working in Virginia,

469
00:23:25.599 --> 00:23:29.440
<v Speaker 1>and we're targeting other blockchain forward states. Funny you mentioned

470
00:23:29.480 --> 00:23:32.079
<v Speaker 1>Brooklyn Brooklyn actually has one of the worst deed fraud

471
00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:35.160
<v Speaker 1>in the entire country, so it's a problem they need

472
00:23:35.200 --> 00:23:38.079
<v Speaker 1>to solve, and so we're looking to go anywhere where

473
00:23:38.839 --> 00:23:43.720
<v Speaker 1>the state or the county actually cares about technology understands blockchain,

474
00:23:43.759 --> 00:23:46.400
<v Speaker 1>so there's not as much as an education component, and

475
00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:48.400
<v Speaker 1>then over time we'll be able to prove our use

476
00:23:48.440 --> 00:23:52.039
<v Speaker 1>case and really scale nationally and internationally, because as we

477
00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:54.920
<v Speaker 1>move beyond the borders of this country, we'll find that

478
00:23:54.960 --> 00:23:58.240
<v Speaker 1>their systems are even more disarray than ours are here,

479
00:23:58.279 --> 00:24:01.119
<v Speaker 1>and they're largely paper based, and when their paper based,

480
00:24:01.119 --> 00:24:06.240
<v Speaker 1>they're subject to natural disasters like floods, fires, hurricanes that

481
00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:09.559
<v Speaker 1>could destroy these records. And in twenty nineteen, when that

482
00:24:09.680 --> 00:24:12.799
<v Speaker 1>hurricane hit Puerto Rico, a lot of their land records

483
00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:15.359
<v Speaker 1>were just completely washed away. So there's all these title

484
00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:18.000
<v Speaker 1>disputes now because nobody knows who owns what. So we're

485
00:24:18.039 --> 00:24:21.119
<v Speaker 1>trying to preserve these records in a way that's permanent.

486
00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:22.720
<v Speaker 1>When you put them on the blockchain, it's like etching

487
00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:23.359
<v Speaker 1>them in stone.

488
00:24:23.839 --> 00:24:26.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and Dan, we were talking before the recording.

489
00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:28.519
<v Speaker 2>I saw a brief clip I think it was on

490
00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:32.480
<v Speaker 2>Instagram where these scammers they were trying to steal a

491
00:24:32.519 --> 00:24:35.599
<v Speaker 2>brownstone from a person that passed away. I think you

492
00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:37.640
<v Speaker 2>are familiar with the story. But like the deed, fraud

493
00:24:37.640 --> 00:24:38.559
<v Speaker 2>is a big issue.

494
00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:42.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, especially in probate cases like you're talking about. When

495
00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:46.000
<v Speaker 1>somebody passes away and the family is like unaware of

496
00:24:46.039 --> 00:24:49.279
<v Speaker 1>what assets they held, or there's no will set up,

497
00:24:49.880 --> 00:24:52.640
<v Speaker 1>it's a golden ticket for scammers to come in and

498
00:24:52.680 --> 00:24:55.640
<v Speaker 1>try to assign ownership of the asset to themselves. And

499
00:24:55.680 --> 00:24:57.960
<v Speaker 1>like I mentioned before, with the rise and generative AI,

500
00:24:58.359 --> 00:25:01.599
<v Speaker 1>it's never been easier to fab documents and it's not

501
00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:04.160
<v Speaker 1>just a ded document. You have to tell a full story,

502
00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:08.000
<v Speaker 1>so you could fabricate associated documents, payoff letters, power of

503
00:25:08.039 --> 00:25:11.319
<v Speaker 1>attorney signatures, all this stuff that helps to tell a

504
00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:13.279
<v Speaker 1>story to commit fraud.

505
00:25:14.519 --> 00:25:18.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so this technology will help stop a lot of that. Obviously,

506
00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:21.359
<v Speaker 2>bad actors will find different ways to try to scamp people.

507
00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:23.119
<v Speaker 2>With the point is we want to cut down as

508
00:25:23.200 --> 00:25:25.319
<v Speaker 2>much of it as possible very minimum.

509
00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:27.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Absolutely. And you know the other thing I mentioned

510
00:25:27.960 --> 00:25:31.440
<v Speaker 1>is ransomware attacks. Ransomware attacks are getting out of control.

511
00:25:31.720 --> 00:25:34.960
<v Speaker 1>It's becoming a serious problem. A lot of this aging

512
00:25:35.079 --> 00:25:38.039
<v Speaker 1>legacy software wasn't built for the threats of today's world.

513
00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:40.440
<v Speaker 1>It was built before I was born, even right, So

514
00:25:40.599 --> 00:25:43.599
<v Speaker 1>ransomware attacks are increasing by one hundred percent year over

515
00:25:43.720 --> 00:25:46.920
<v Speaker 1>year by some estimates. It's costing taxpayers tens of millions

516
00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:50.119
<v Speaker 1>of dollars annually. Hoboken just got hit actually a year

517
00:25:50.119 --> 00:25:52.799
<v Speaker 1>ago by a ransomware attack that cost them two million

518
00:25:52.839 --> 00:25:57.000
<v Speaker 1>dollars and a lot of sensitive data was exposed. Suff Accounty,

519
00:25:57.039 --> 00:25:59.039
<v Speaker 1>New York got hit with a massive attack where their

520
00:25:59.079 --> 00:26:02.000
<v Speaker 1>systems literally were blacked out for two months, where nobody

521
00:26:02.039 --> 00:26:04.400
<v Speaker 1>knew who owned what and what leans around what property.

522
00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:06.400
<v Speaker 1>So it made it impossible to trade real estate.

523
00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:06.759
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

524
00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:09.240
<v Speaker 1>And my fear is that one day it'll move beyond

525
00:26:09.359 --> 00:26:12.599
<v Speaker 1>just ransomware attacks. It'll be a foreign enemy adversary that

526
00:26:12.759 --> 00:26:15.119
<v Speaker 1>just wants to create chaos. They don't want money, They

527
00:26:15.160 --> 00:26:17.200
<v Speaker 1>just want to black out our systems to mess with us.

528
00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:17.640
<v Speaker 3>Oh.

529
00:26:17.960 --> 00:26:19.960
<v Speaker 1>At that point it becomes a national security threat.

530
00:26:20.200 --> 00:26:20.960
<v Speaker 3>Oh. Absolutely.

531
00:26:21.039 --> 00:26:24.440
<v Speaker 2>And I mean we've seen you know, bits and pieces

532
00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:27.720
<v Speaker 2>of this in different ways, companies, private companies, public companies.

533
00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:30.079
<v Speaker 3>Getting attacked and data breaches and much more.

534
00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:32.640
<v Speaker 2>And to your point, the technology is going to continue

535
00:26:32.680 --> 00:26:36.240
<v Speaker 2>to get more sophisticated to AI you know, look, good

536
00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:38.880
<v Speaker 2>actors can build AI tools and agents, and so can

537
00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:39.480
<v Speaker 2>the bad actors.

538
00:26:39.519 --> 00:26:42.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you got to fight AI with AI. Obviously, you

539
00:26:42.039 --> 00:26:44.759
<v Speaker 1>got to keep up. And I know government typically moves slow,

540
00:26:44.839 --> 00:26:47.519
<v Speaker 1>but they have a duty to their citizens, to their

541
00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:50.680
<v Speaker 1>constituents to stay up to date with technology and protect

542
00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:51.640
<v Speaker 1>their property rights.

543
00:26:51.880 --> 00:26:53.799
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, and then look, I know we're a little

544
00:26:53.799 --> 00:26:56.359
<v Speaker 2>bit far away from this, but quantum is coming, so

545
00:26:56.400 --> 00:26:59.240
<v Speaker 2>it's best we get things in place in this way.

546
00:26:59.400 --> 00:27:02.400
<v Speaker 2>When to qui technology comes along, you can quantum proof

547
00:27:02.440 --> 00:27:04.519
<v Speaker 2>your blockchain, you know, to.

548
00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:06.440
<v Speaker 3>Meet But if you're not even there yet.

549
00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:09.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you're behind the curve man, exactly. I mean, that's

550
00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:12.240
<v Speaker 1>that's where the world's going. We we think we could

551
00:27:12.319 --> 00:27:14.920
<v Speaker 1>leap frog a lot of people over from like you know,

552
00:27:15.519 --> 00:27:19.559
<v Speaker 1>from paper records straight to the blockchain. So there's you know,

553
00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:23.119
<v Speaker 1>this evolution that's happened from filing cabinets to on prem

554
00:27:23.160 --> 00:27:26.799
<v Speaker 1>computers to the cloud now to the blockchain. So we

555
00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:29.680
<v Speaker 1>think that you know, a prime target for ours are

556
00:27:29.759 --> 00:27:32.519
<v Speaker 1>counties that are still in paper, that are buried in paper,

557
00:27:32.599 --> 00:27:35.519
<v Speaker 1>that you know, don't want to go through that gradual process,

558
00:27:35.559 --> 00:27:38.000
<v Speaker 1>that want to kind of jump ahead and get right

559
00:27:38.039 --> 00:27:41.160
<v Speaker 1>straight to the best technology that exists, Oh for sure.

560
00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:44.240
<v Speaker 2>And then you know, in your you mentioned you were

561
00:27:44.319 --> 00:27:47.160
<v Speaker 2>focusing on some of the blockchain friendly states, you know,

562
00:27:47.200 --> 00:27:49.640
<v Speaker 2>those that are being a bit progressive on that front.

563
00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:53.799
<v Speaker 2>What's it like talking to people in the real estate industry.

564
00:27:54.160 --> 00:27:57.039
<v Speaker 2>Are they more open minded now that blockchain and crypto

565
00:27:57.079 --> 00:27:58.200
<v Speaker 2>have become more prominent.

566
00:27:58.759 --> 00:28:03.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Absolutely. It's slow process convincing real estate people who

567
00:28:03.640 --> 00:28:05.839
<v Speaker 1>you know, like I said, it's still largely controlled by

568
00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:09.440
<v Speaker 1>kind of the old school people that don't yeah, that

569
00:28:09.559 --> 00:28:12.680
<v Speaker 1>don't like to change. But that's changing now, especially you

570
00:28:12.680 --> 00:28:15.559
<v Speaker 1>see that these trends in tradfi. They're realizing that this

571
00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:19.079
<v Speaker 1>isn't They're moving from skepticism to implementation because they know

572
00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:22.680
<v Speaker 1>that it's cheaper, faster, and more transparent, which means more profits.

573
00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:26.759
<v Speaker 1>And real estate brokers are realizing they could streamline the process,

574
00:28:26.799 --> 00:28:29.519
<v Speaker 1>they could get paid quicker, they could settle on properties quicker.

575
00:28:29.799 --> 00:28:33.599
<v Speaker 1>Title companies are realizing like, hey, you know, if we

576
00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:35.519
<v Speaker 1>put this process on chain, we could actually do our

577
00:28:35.519 --> 00:28:39.319
<v Speaker 1>title searches much more efficiently. We'll have less discrepancies, less

578
00:28:39.559 --> 00:28:43.119
<v Speaker 1>you know, clouds on title and I think the entire

579
00:28:43.160 --> 00:28:45.079
<v Speaker 1>world is going to move on chain, and it's really

580
00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:48.160
<v Speaker 1>just like all the industry members moving on chain. It's

581
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:51.480
<v Speaker 1>not a process that replaces people. It's people that work

582
00:28:51.559 --> 00:28:54.279
<v Speaker 1>with the blockchain and AI and technologies that are available

583
00:28:54.319 --> 00:28:56.680
<v Speaker 1>to us that will help, you know, shepherd us into

584
00:28:56.720 --> 00:28:57.160
<v Speaker 1>the future.

585
00:28:57.759 --> 00:29:00.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and yeah, to your point, it's gonna be a

586
00:29:00.680 --> 00:29:02.799
<v Speaker 2>slow process to get somebody these people to get on board.

587
00:29:03.319 --> 00:29:06.559
<v Speaker 2>I'm curious, are the like folks like the National Realtors Association,

588
00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:07.920
<v Speaker 2>are they paying attention to things.

589
00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:10.599
<v Speaker 1>I think they are. Actually I'm not one hundred percent sure,

590
00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:12.920
<v Speaker 1>but I have heard rumblings about it, and I think

591
00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:15.920
<v Speaker 1>that they need to do something. They've been hit with

592
00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:19.200
<v Speaker 1>a lot of lawsuits lately, and it's becoming much more

593
00:29:19.240 --> 00:29:23.759
<v Speaker 1>difficult for brokers to like interact in this world. They're

594
00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:26.839
<v Speaker 1>getting attacked and there's like all these things that it's

595
00:29:26.960 --> 00:29:29.400
<v Speaker 1>really like state by state as well, like New Jersey

596
00:29:29.480 --> 00:29:32.359
<v Speaker 1>I think implemented a rule where you know, commissions have

597
00:29:32.440 --> 00:29:35.240
<v Speaker 1>to be paid separately from the buyer and seller. And

598
00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:38.400
<v Speaker 1>there's all these obstacles that are in the way for brokers.

599
00:29:38.440 --> 00:29:41.000
<v Speaker 1>And if this industry is going to continue and thrive,

600
00:29:41.359 --> 00:29:43.079
<v Speaker 1>they need to embrace through technologies.

601
00:29:43.880 --> 00:29:47.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for sure, And you know, maybe part of the

602
00:29:47.720 --> 00:29:50.279
<v Speaker 2>next real estate boom can include this technology.

603
00:29:50.839 --> 00:29:54.880
<v Speaker 3>Just make things easier and more efficient.

604
00:29:54.440 --> 00:29:56.480
<v Speaker 1>For everybody, yep, more transparent.

605
00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:59.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and maybe help the real estate industry to look.

606
00:29:59.799 --> 00:30:02.240
<v Speaker 2>I know the markets are very cyclical, right We've seen

607
00:30:02.240 --> 00:30:05.920
<v Speaker 2>boom and bus but you know, if they are able

608
00:30:05.960 --> 00:30:09.559
<v Speaker 2>to get to even fractionalization, it can open up some

609
00:30:09.640 --> 00:30:11.400
<v Speaker 2>incredible investment opportunities where.

610
00:30:11.240 --> 00:30:13.720
<v Speaker 1>People around and it'll open up tons of liquidity.

611
00:30:14.039 --> 00:30:15.480
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, absolutely.

612
00:30:16.279 --> 00:30:18.119
<v Speaker 2>I know this is not crypto, but I did want

613
00:30:18.119 --> 00:30:19.960
<v Speaker 2>to get your thoughts because this is right up your

614
00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:22.039
<v Speaker 2>alley of your expertise. But how do you feel about

615
00:30:22.079 --> 00:30:24.240
<v Speaker 2>the real estate market right now? I know rates are

616
00:30:24.599 --> 00:30:28.519
<v Speaker 2>are is you in addition to the economic conditions? How

617
00:30:28.519 --> 00:30:30.920
<v Speaker 2>people feel? You know, in a recession, should I hold

618
00:30:30.920 --> 00:30:33.480
<v Speaker 2>off and buying? But how are things rebounding a bit

619
00:30:33.559 --> 00:30:34.279
<v Speaker 2>or are getting worse?

620
00:30:34.440 --> 00:30:37.880
<v Speaker 1>They're they're rebounding a bit. Rates are coming down. You know,

621
00:30:37.960 --> 00:30:40.200
<v Speaker 1>nobody has a crystal ball, but we are expecting another

622
00:30:40.279 --> 00:30:43.279
<v Speaker 1>rate cut at the next FED meeting, so I think

623
00:30:43.400 --> 00:30:47.119
<v Speaker 1>that will be positive. I think that it's still difficult

624
00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:50.039
<v Speaker 1>to sell your home because people who are locked in

625
00:30:50.079 --> 00:30:52.559
<v Speaker 1>at three percent, where are they going you know, what

626
00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:54.799
<v Speaker 1>are they going to buy? Because prices have gone up

627
00:30:54.799 --> 00:30:57.000
<v Speaker 1>and interest rates have gone up, so there's a lack

628
00:30:57.039 --> 00:30:59.319
<v Speaker 1>of inventory right now, which is the problem. And more

629
00:30:59.319 --> 00:31:02.160
<v Speaker 1>people are rent thing than ever before because it just

630
00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:05.759
<v Speaker 1>makes a lot more sense. So I think that the

631
00:31:05.880 --> 00:31:08.680
<v Speaker 1>real estate market will continue to ease a little bit

632
00:31:08.720 --> 00:31:11.000
<v Speaker 1>and get better as rates come down, and we should

633
00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:13.920
<v Speaker 1>see more things open up. And I'm optimistic that that's

634
00:31:14.039 --> 00:31:15.319
<v Speaker 1>that's the direction we're headed.

635
00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:18.599
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'm one of those people with the three percent rates.

636
00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:21.720
<v Speaker 1>That yeah where you know where you go and you're stay.

637
00:31:22.119 --> 00:31:22.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

638
00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:25.519
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if this makes sense, but I always

639
00:31:25.720 --> 00:31:28.400
<v Speaker 2>I envision and I have this ideal thing of like

640
00:31:28.720 --> 00:31:31.119
<v Speaker 2>can I transfer my rate over to a new house that.

641
00:31:31.119 --> 00:31:31.759
<v Speaker 3>Will be nice?

642
00:31:32.039 --> 00:31:34.839
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it is. It is possible to do to sign

643
00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:38.440
<v Speaker 1>your mortgage. It's a little more comp It's usually done

644
00:31:38.519 --> 00:31:43.119
<v Speaker 1>for like commercial properties, multi family stuff, but it is possible.

645
00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:47.039
<v Speaker 2>Maybe it's something I should look into. Yeah, I talk

646
00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:48.200
<v Speaker 2>to you off.

647
00:31:49.880 --> 00:31:51.640
<v Speaker 3>Now. Obviously you're doing a lot of stuff.

648
00:31:51.880 --> 00:31:55.880
<v Speaker 2>You're you're working on putting all these property deeds on chain.

649
00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:58.079
<v Speaker 2>What else is on your roadmap as it relates to

650
00:31:58.359 --> 00:31:59.319
<v Speaker 2>blockchain crypto?

651
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:02.680
<v Speaker 1>So that's the big thing. Obviously, we're trying to scale

652
00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:05.640
<v Speaker 1>county to county and even we have some statewide initiatives

653
00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:08.519
<v Speaker 1>as well once we've kind of we're trying to stay

654
00:32:08.599 --> 00:32:10.519
<v Speaker 1>very focused right now because it's very easy to get

655
00:32:10.519 --> 00:32:13.240
<v Speaker 1>distracted by shiny objects and there's a million things we

656
00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:15.759
<v Speaker 1>could put on chain, but we have to perfect what

657
00:32:15.799 --> 00:32:19.839
<v Speaker 1>we're doing with deeds and leans first, right. We're also

658
00:32:19.960 --> 00:32:24.160
<v Speaker 1>exploring some pilot programs with title companies right now, not

659
00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:26.400
<v Speaker 1>at liberty to discuss too much about it, but we

660
00:32:26.480 --> 00:32:29.039
<v Speaker 1>think that they're a very valuable and important part of

661
00:32:29.079 --> 00:32:31.559
<v Speaker 1>the process, and they're actually the front line of defense

662
00:32:31.599 --> 00:32:35.599
<v Speaker 1>against against deed fraud, so it's very important to actually

663
00:32:35.640 --> 00:32:38.599
<v Speaker 1>bring them into the process as well and work with them.

664
00:32:38.920 --> 00:32:40.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So Dan, that means I'm going to have to

665
00:32:40.960 --> 00:32:43.599
<v Speaker 2>have you back on the pod like almost every quarter.

666
00:32:43.640 --> 00:32:46.000
<v Speaker 1>As I'm in, I'm in as you guys.

667
00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:48.319
<v Speaker 2>Make updates because I'm just look, real estate is the

668
00:32:48.359 --> 00:32:51.559
<v Speaker 2>world's largest acid class, so putting that on chain. Look,

669
00:32:51.559 --> 00:32:54.400
<v Speaker 2>we all need shelter, right, We like, we gotta be

670
00:32:54.640 --> 00:32:56.839
<v Speaker 2>living in somewhere we're going to be out and the

671
00:32:57.759 --> 00:33:00.400
<v Speaker 2>weather conditions, right, Yeah.

672
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:00.480
<v Speaker 3>It's important.

673
00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:02.880
<v Speaker 1>It starts with government because they're the ultimate arbiter of

674
00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:06.160
<v Speaker 1>land records and ownership records, right, So we realized they

675
00:33:06.200 --> 00:33:08.279
<v Speaker 1>needed to come on chain first before we could get

676
00:33:08.319 --> 00:33:10.319
<v Speaker 1>the rest of the real estate economy on chain.

677
00:33:10.720 --> 00:33:13.359
<v Speaker 3>Right. So you really, like I said earlier, you're setting

678
00:33:13.359 --> 00:33:14.799
<v Speaker 3>that foundational.

679
00:33:14.200 --> 00:33:18.880
<v Speaker 2>Infrastructure that's exactly key pillar exactly. You know, i'd love

680
00:33:18.880 --> 00:33:20.599
<v Speaker 2>to get your thoughts on this because we're seeing the

681
00:33:20.599 --> 00:33:23.000
<v Speaker 2>Trump administration and I.

682
00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:25.720
<v Speaker 3>Think it was Bill Poulty, if I'm not mistaken.

683
00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:28.519
<v Speaker 2>Part of the housing heads up the housing in the

684
00:33:28.559 --> 00:33:30.960
<v Speaker 2>Trump administration. I think he said they want to have

685
00:33:31.839 --> 00:33:36.079
<v Speaker 2>crypto be used in mortgages of Fanny Made Freddie mac mortgages.

686
00:33:36.200 --> 00:33:37.119
<v Speaker 3>What are your thoughts on that?

687
00:33:37.400 --> 00:33:40.400
<v Speaker 1>So I believe what he said was that they would

688
00:33:40.519 --> 00:33:45.960
<v Speaker 1>allow for you to use your bitcoin or you know,

689
00:33:46.039 --> 00:33:49.200
<v Speaker 1>some other crypto as either collateral or be used when

690
00:33:49.240 --> 00:33:53.599
<v Speaker 1>assessing your your personal financial statements. So I think that's

691
00:33:53.720 --> 00:33:58.200
<v Speaker 1>extremely valuable. You know, I've back in my days before

692
00:33:58.240 --> 00:34:00.880
<v Speaker 1>I started Balcony, I've tried to show you know, my

693
00:34:01.319 --> 00:34:04.240
<v Speaker 1>balance sheets in crypto and banks are like what am

694
00:34:04.240 --> 00:34:08.119
<v Speaker 1>I looking at? Yeah, exactly, So I think that it'll

695
00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:11.480
<v Speaker 1>help that process. And also, like with proof of reserves.

696
00:34:11.719 --> 00:34:15.159
<v Speaker 1>You'll be able to streamline the process of doing these

697
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:20.920
<v Speaker 1>cumbersome personal financial searches on individuals because you'll be able

698
00:34:20.960 --> 00:34:24.280
<v Speaker 1>to use like zero knowledge proofs to prove your balance

699
00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:27.320
<v Speaker 1>sheet without being totally invasive. So I think it's like

700
00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:29.360
<v Speaker 1>a very positive step in the right direction.

701
00:34:30.039 --> 00:34:32.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. I mean, it's such a validation to your point.

702
00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:35.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm in the same boat years ago if I brought up, hey,

703
00:34:35.440 --> 00:34:36.719
<v Speaker 2>I have X amount of crypto?

704
00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:39.679
<v Speaker 3>Who cares? I can't do anything about it.

705
00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:41.840
<v Speaker 1>They're like, oh, it's gonna could crash tomorrow. I don't care.

706
00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:45.480
<v Speaker 3>But now that's changing, and I can imagine if the

707
00:34:45.519 --> 00:34:48.480
<v Speaker 3>government's giving the green light here, the big banks when

708
00:34:48.480 --> 00:34:50.440
<v Speaker 3>they're issuing mortgages are going to look at the same thing.

709
00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:52.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, no question. I think.

710
00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:53.280
<v Speaker 3>Actually, if I'm.

711
00:34:53.119 --> 00:34:55.440
<v Speaker 2>Not gonna saying, JP Morgan recently said they were going

712
00:34:55.519 --> 00:34:59.320
<v Speaker 2>to allow or look at their clients crypto holdings and

713
00:34:59.360 --> 00:35:00.519
<v Speaker 2>that could be used as collateral.

714
00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:02.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think all the big banks are

715
00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:04.920
<v Speaker 1>going to get on board. I think, like back in

716
00:35:04.920 --> 00:35:07.400
<v Speaker 1>twenty seventeen, they put up a lot of resistance and

717
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:09.639
<v Speaker 1>then they realized that there's nothing they could do. It's

718
00:35:09.679 --> 00:35:11.719
<v Speaker 1>here to stay and we got to kind of jump

719
00:35:11.800 --> 00:35:14.039
<v Speaker 1>on the bandwagon or we're gonna fall behind.

720
00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:19.039
<v Speaker 2>Oh absolutely, So are you seeing demand from people looking

721
00:35:19.079 --> 00:35:20.480
<v Speaker 2>to buy properties with crypto?

722
00:35:21.320 --> 00:35:24.559
<v Speaker 1>So actually, it's funny you say that. Some of the

723
00:35:24.599 --> 00:35:27.840
<v Speaker 1>title companies we've been speaking to actually have said, yes,

724
00:35:27.960 --> 00:35:30.599
<v Speaker 1>there's people that come to us that want to settle

725
00:35:30.599 --> 00:35:33.719
<v Speaker 1>in bitcoin or in stable tokens, And I said, oh, cool,

726
00:35:33.719 --> 00:35:35.280
<v Speaker 1>Well what do you do And they're like, oh, we

727
00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:37.920
<v Speaker 1>turn them away, like we don't want to deal with that.

728
00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:40.519
<v Speaker 1>It's a headache. And I'm like, there's going to be

729
00:35:40.519 --> 00:35:43.000
<v Speaker 1>a growing need for it, especially with the passage of

730
00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:45.920
<v Speaker 1>the Genius Act, like it'll become commonplace for people to

731
00:35:45.960 --> 00:35:48.239
<v Speaker 1>want to settle in stable tokens. We want to set

732
00:35:48.280 --> 00:35:50.440
<v Speaker 1>up those rails, and we want to make it easier

733
00:35:50.480 --> 00:35:53.199
<v Speaker 1>for title companies to understand what's happening and get involved

734
00:35:53.239 --> 00:35:54.840
<v Speaker 1>because there is a growing need for it.

735
00:35:55.400 --> 00:35:58.599
<v Speaker 3>So would you have to partner with like crypto exchanges,

736
00:35:58.639 --> 00:36:02.360
<v Speaker 3>like a coinbase for example, to settle escrow and all

737
00:36:02.360 --> 00:36:02.719
<v Speaker 3>these things.

738
00:36:02.800 --> 00:36:05.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we'd partner with with like a circle and we'd

739
00:36:05.119 --> 00:36:07.960
<v Speaker 1>set up the rails for you know, or there's state

740
00:36:08.039 --> 00:36:10.960
<v Speaker 1>issued stable tokens now, So like Wyoming. You know, we're

741
00:36:11.039 --> 00:36:14.000
<v Speaker 1>working with Wyoming. We've met with Senator Lummus multiple times.

742
00:36:14.039 --> 00:36:16.840
<v Speaker 1>She's amazing. She's really like spearheading a lot of this

743
00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:19.920
<v Speaker 1>digital asset legislation that's going in front of Congress right now.

744
00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:23.000
<v Speaker 1>And a good great use case for their stable token

745
00:36:23.320 --> 00:36:27.880
<v Speaker 1>is for tax payments for settlements, you know, to actually

746
00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:30.679
<v Speaker 1>close on real estate. And we want to set those

747
00:36:30.719 --> 00:36:34.239
<v Speaker 1>rails up so that you could actually close entirely on chain,

748
00:36:34.480 --> 00:36:38.119
<v Speaker 1>have the transfer of funds happen entirely on chain, and

749
00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:41.079
<v Speaker 1>then have those transfer tax payments and recording fees actually

750
00:36:41.079 --> 00:36:43.760
<v Speaker 1>get sent to the government on chain, and actually the

751
00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:48.079
<v Speaker 1>entire escrow. You know, there's a ton of people that

752
00:36:48.159 --> 00:36:51.159
<v Speaker 1>need to be paid at the closing. There's the brokers,

753
00:36:51.239 --> 00:36:54.480
<v Speaker 1>the title agents, insurance, there's all, you know, the county.

754
00:36:54.840 --> 00:36:57.559
<v Speaker 1>We could set up a way that everyone gets paid

755
00:36:57.599 --> 00:37:01.159
<v Speaker 1>instantly over blockchain rails. Now it takes we to you know,

756
00:37:01.239 --> 00:37:04.840
<v Speaker 1>settle everything. Oh so just streamline the you know, flow

757
00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:06.000
<v Speaker 1>of payments.

758
00:37:05.800 --> 00:37:06.480
<v Speaker 3>That would be nice.

759
00:37:06.519 --> 00:37:08.960
<v Speaker 2>Dan, I guess that having gone through the process and

760
00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:10.039
<v Speaker 2>waiting for a disc check.

761
00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:10.800
<v Speaker 3>To Claire and blow up.

762
00:37:10.840 --> 00:37:12.360
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, it's horrible, right.

763
00:37:12.199 --> 00:37:13.599
<v Speaker 3>But if we can be instantly.

764
00:37:14.119 --> 00:37:17.159
<v Speaker 2>Whatever it is US DC or Wyoming stable coin doesn't matter,

765
00:37:17.239 --> 00:37:19.039
<v Speaker 2>as long as it converts to the US dollar.

766
00:37:19.840 --> 00:37:20.679
<v Speaker 3>That would be amazing.

767
00:37:20.719 --> 00:37:21.320
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely.

768
00:37:21.519 --> 00:37:25.239
<v Speaker 2>So you you mentioned like crypto legislation, what Senator Lummus

769
00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:27.840
<v Speaker 2>and so forth has been doing. Obviously a lot of

770
00:37:27.880 --> 00:37:30.280
<v Speaker 2>people are waiting for the Clarity Act, the Market Structure

771
00:37:30.280 --> 00:37:32.840
<v Speaker 2>bill we mentioned the Genius Act got passed. You know,

772
00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:36.519
<v Speaker 2>what are your thoughts on what the market structure the

773
00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:38.639
<v Speaker 2>impact the Market Structure Bill will have on the industry

774
00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:39.880
<v Speaker 2>and innovation and things like that.

775
00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:43.079
<v Speaker 1>I think it'll be enormous. I think it'll allow institutions

776
00:37:43.119 --> 00:37:46.159
<v Speaker 1>to understand what we're doing. It'll bring real clarity to

777
00:37:46.239 --> 00:37:49.559
<v Speaker 1>the space, and it'll give regulations, which is what we want.

778
00:37:49.599 --> 00:37:52.559
<v Speaker 1>We want those regulations. I was actually in d C

779
00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:57.360
<v Speaker 1>when they passed the Genius Act. I worked with Stand

780
00:37:57.360 --> 00:38:00.800
<v Speaker 1>with Crypto, which is coin bases advocacy group that you know,

781
00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:05.760
<v Speaker 1>helps to foster positive legislation and help educate senators and

782
00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:11.039
<v Speaker 1>congress members and whatever. And the thoughts up there on

783
00:38:11.079 --> 00:38:16.119
<v Speaker 1>the hill, the sentiment was very inspiring. Everybody was inquisitive.

784
00:38:16.480 --> 00:38:18.960
<v Speaker 1>They all wanted to learn a lot of them you know,

785
00:38:19.519 --> 00:38:24.119
<v Speaker 1>we're just learning, like had no clue, no like foundational

786
00:38:24.199 --> 00:38:27.119
<v Speaker 1>understanding of blockchain, but they knew that it was here

787
00:38:27.159 --> 00:38:30.159
<v Speaker 1>to stay and it's become a bipartison issue. Both sides

788
00:38:30.159 --> 00:38:32.400
<v Speaker 1>care about it now and they want the United States

789
00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:35.400
<v Speaker 1>to be a leader in this technology. So it's really

790
00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:38.840
<v Speaker 1>inspiring seeing this come from the federal government. We're obviously

791
00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:41.719
<v Speaker 1>working more with like state and local governments. It's starting

792
00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:44.639
<v Speaker 1>to trickle its way down, but it's super important what

793
00:38:44.679 --> 00:38:47.000
<v Speaker 1>they're doing right now, and you know they're they're really

794
00:38:47.079 --> 00:38:52.239
<v Speaker 1>going to help, you know, keep blockchain companies inside of

795
00:38:52.280 --> 00:38:53.119
<v Speaker 1>the United States.

796
00:38:53.480 --> 00:38:54.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a key point in keeping them in the

797
00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:57.760
<v Speaker 2>United States because there was a period of four years

798
00:38:57.760 --> 00:38:58.519
<v Speaker 2>where people.

799
00:38:58.239 --> 00:39:00.960
<v Speaker 1>Were, yeah, ye're fleeing is scary.

800
00:39:01.599 --> 00:39:04.599
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that was rough times, man, But yeah, we.

801
00:39:04.480 --> 00:39:06.639
<v Speaker 1>Were working in the space at the time. We were

802
00:39:06.639 --> 00:39:09.280
<v Speaker 1>trying to convince governments to go on chain right after

803
00:39:09.320 --> 00:39:12.400
<v Speaker 1>the FTX collapse, and there was a ton of skepticism.

804
00:39:12.480 --> 00:39:14.239
<v Speaker 1>They're like, oh, are you guys a fraud? Are you

805
00:39:14.199 --> 00:39:17.039
<v Speaker 1>gonna scam us? And whatever. So there's a lot of

806
00:39:17.159 --> 00:39:19.519
<v Speaker 1>education that needed to be done. That's why I thank

807
00:39:19.519 --> 00:39:21.760
<v Speaker 1>you at the top of the podcast, is it's so important.

808
00:39:21.880 --> 00:39:25.760
<v Speaker 1>Education is key, it really is, because there's so many

809
00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:30.199
<v Speaker 1>misconceptions around blockchain, and it's the same thing with any

810
00:39:30.280 --> 00:39:32.960
<v Speaker 1>new technology. There's going to be people who use it

811
00:39:33.039 --> 00:39:36.320
<v Speaker 1>and people who abuse it, and that doesn't mean that

812
00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:38.079
<v Speaker 1>the technology is inherently bad.

813
00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:39.639
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, absolutely.

814
00:39:39.679 --> 00:39:41.800
<v Speaker 2>You know, I like to remind people about the early

815
00:39:41.880 --> 00:39:44.519
<v Speaker 2>days of the internet, Right, it was first used by

816
00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:49.039
<v Speaker 2>the gambling people, the adult content people, but then eventually

817
00:39:49.440 --> 00:39:52.480
<v Speaker 2>it became the way we communicated with each other, the

818
00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:56.320
<v Speaker 2>way we do commerce and get our content and all

819
00:39:56.320 --> 00:39:58.559
<v Speaker 2>these things. But if you looked at it in early

820
00:39:58.639 --> 00:40:00.840
<v Speaker 2>days and some of the headlines, remember some people are

821
00:40:00.840 --> 00:40:03.679
<v Speaker 2>saying the Internet wouldn't be greater than the fax machine

822
00:40:04.199 --> 00:40:06.880
<v Speaker 2>stuff like that, and it's like, really, yeah.

823
00:40:06.519 --> 00:40:08.760
<v Speaker 1>I watched the old videos of like Bill Gates trying

824
00:40:08.800 --> 00:40:10.599
<v Speaker 1>to explain it and like a late night show and

825
00:40:10.679 --> 00:40:13.079
<v Speaker 1>everyone's like what but there's like a fax machine and

826
00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:14.719
<v Speaker 1>there's a telephone. Why do you need that?

827
00:40:15.079 --> 00:40:19.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Yeah, And it's just you know, it's a human element, right,

828
00:40:19.880 --> 00:40:24.039
<v Speaker 2>is psychology like change, It is hard for people. Sometimes

829
00:40:24.119 --> 00:40:26.239
<v Speaker 2>we get settled in how things are and it's like

830
00:40:26.480 --> 00:40:30.639
<v Speaker 2>hard to imagine a world different and then something that's

831
00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:32.800
<v Speaker 2>new that we don't fully understand.

832
00:40:32.840 --> 00:40:34.719
<v Speaker 3>It scares us. You know, we have the natural reaction

833
00:40:34.840 --> 00:40:36.280
<v Speaker 3>like I don't know about that.

834
00:40:36.599 --> 00:40:37.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

835
00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:40.079
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, So I feel like Crypto is going through that,

836
00:40:40.199 --> 00:40:43.039
<v Speaker 2>but it's getting better. And you know, one of the

837
00:40:43.039 --> 00:40:45.880
<v Speaker 2>ways that I feel is going to help Crypto get

838
00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:49.800
<v Speaker 2>more visibility, more awareness is tradify. I mean all of

839
00:40:49.840 --> 00:40:53.159
<v Speaker 2>them are here, Dan, the big banks, the Wall Street firms,

840
00:40:53.559 --> 00:40:55.079
<v Speaker 2>and they're building, they're tokenizing.

841
00:40:55.280 --> 00:40:58.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I love to see it. You have people

842
00:40:58.159 --> 00:41:00.400
<v Speaker 1>like Larry Fink, who's the CEO of Black Rock, talking

843
00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:04.519
<v Speaker 1>about how every asset, every instrument will be tokenized. We're

844
00:41:04.519 --> 00:41:06.960
<v Speaker 1>moving towards this world of twenty four to seven trading,

845
00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:11.320
<v Speaker 1>of efficiency, of you know, cheaper costs and transparency, and

846
00:41:11.400 --> 00:41:13.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, I'm all about it. And that's why we've

847
00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:16.079
<v Speaker 1>kind of raised our hand and said, you know, we'll

848
00:41:16.599 --> 00:41:19.079
<v Speaker 1>we'll take the tough task of bringing the governments on

849
00:41:19.159 --> 00:41:22.599
<v Speaker 1>chain and creating that legal foundational level to make everything

850
00:41:22.599 --> 00:41:23.199
<v Speaker 1>else flow.

851
00:41:23.639 --> 00:41:27.400
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah, And that's such like I said, real

852
00:41:27.519 --> 00:41:30.039
<v Speaker 2>estate the world's largest acid class, right, and we need

853
00:41:30.039 --> 00:41:32.440
<v Speaker 2>all need shelters. There's no way to avoid that. This

854
00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:34.719
<v Speaker 2>is something I need to go unchained. The process needs

855
00:41:34.719 --> 00:41:37.519
<v Speaker 2>to get better, and you guys are certainly leading you

856
00:41:37.519 --> 00:41:40.679
<v Speaker 2>know the charge there, Dan, great stuff, man, I love it,

857
00:41:40.760 --> 00:41:42.119
<v Speaker 2>And like I said, We're gonna have to do more

858
00:41:42.159 --> 00:41:43.039
<v Speaker 2>interviews because.

859
00:41:43.199 --> 00:41:45.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm open man right across the river. Yeah, anytime.

860
00:41:45.920 --> 00:41:47.920
<v Speaker 2>We're very close. So I got some wrap up questions

861
00:41:47.920 --> 00:41:50.440
<v Speaker 2>here for you. Sure, First, if you could create your

862
00:41:50.440 --> 00:41:51.559
<v Speaker 2>own metaverse, what would.

863
00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:55.880
<v Speaker 1>The the be so kind of like I guess a boring answer,

864
00:41:55.960 --> 00:41:59.000
<v Speaker 1>but I would literally just recreate the physical world in

865
00:41:59.079 --> 00:42:02.039
<v Speaker 1>digital space because then it would be easy to find

866
00:42:02.039 --> 00:42:04.800
<v Speaker 1>the geolocations of a property, walk around it, do a

867
00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:08.800
<v Speaker 1>virtual walk through, actually put offers in streamline your due

868
00:42:08.840 --> 00:42:11.400
<v Speaker 1>diligence right there from the luxury of your couch. So

869
00:42:11.440 --> 00:42:14.320
<v Speaker 1>I would just you know, take all the properties were tokenizing,

870
00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:16.840
<v Speaker 1>put them in the metaverse, and make it like this big,

871
00:42:16.920 --> 00:42:19.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, digital marketplace to actually buy real estate.

872
00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:22.119
<v Speaker 3>Dan. I think I feel like that's on your roadmap

873
00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:23.599
<v Speaker 3>balcony roadmap.

874
00:42:23.480 --> 00:42:26.039
<v Speaker 2>Possibly because if you think about it, that's something I've

875
00:42:26.039 --> 00:42:28.599
<v Speaker 2>thought about too, Like if I could be immersed, Like

876
00:42:28.679 --> 00:42:30.320
<v Speaker 2>let's say I want to be it's someplace in Japan,

877
00:42:30.639 --> 00:42:32.519
<v Speaker 2>and I don't I don't know Japan that well, but

878
00:42:32.599 --> 00:42:35.039
<v Speaker 2>I can go pinpoint a location I'll be staying, Like,

879
00:42:35.119 --> 00:42:37.719
<v Speaker 2>walk around and see what it looks like.

880
00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:39.679
<v Speaker 3>Anders, I know what to expect.

881
00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:41.119
<v Speaker 1>When yeah, you know what's in the neighborhood. You know,

882
00:42:41.119 --> 00:42:43.639
<v Speaker 1>if you're right next to a giant telephone pole or whatever.

883
00:42:43.719 --> 00:42:46.320
<v Speaker 1>And then they already have great three D walkthroughs. I'm

884
00:42:46.320 --> 00:42:48.400
<v Speaker 1>sure you've seen them, like Zillo whatever. You could actually

885
00:42:48.440 --> 00:42:50.880
<v Speaker 1>walk through the apartment and see it. So we're getting

886
00:42:50.920 --> 00:42:53.280
<v Speaker 1>to a point where you could you could have a

887
00:42:53.280 --> 00:42:56.719
<v Speaker 1>full immersive experience within real estate and you could look

888
00:42:56.719 --> 00:42:58.280
<v Speaker 1>at let's say you want to go look at ten

889
00:42:58.320 --> 00:43:01.599
<v Speaker 1>different properties. It's very difficult to do that in an afternoon. Yes,

890
00:43:01.679 --> 00:43:02.599
<v Speaker 1>now you could do it.

891
00:43:02.760 --> 00:43:05.079
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, and then check out the neighborhood and you know,

892
00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:08.519
<v Speaker 2>and it's it's with the blockchain technology, with AI and

893
00:43:08.519 --> 00:43:12.400
<v Speaker 2>so forth, it's real time immersive and it's just a

894
00:43:12.400 --> 00:43:14.679
<v Speaker 2>different experience. I know what to expect whether I'm looking

895
00:43:14.679 --> 00:43:16.639
<v Speaker 2>to buyer property or going on vacation, I know what

896
00:43:16.719 --> 00:43:20.760
<v Speaker 2>to expect and that that's really helpful. Yeah, absolutely, rapid

897
00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:24.199
<v Speaker 2>fire questions favorite food steak, I'd say, I don't know

898
00:43:24.239 --> 00:43:26.639
<v Speaker 2>if you've ever been to Dino and Harry's and Hoboken

899
00:43:27.199 --> 00:43:29.559
<v Speaker 2>when you when you were there, but great steakhouse.

900
00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:30.599
<v Speaker 1>I highly recommend.

901
00:43:31.119 --> 00:43:33.079
<v Speaker 3>I have dad brain these days. I didn't remember, Like

902
00:43:33.119 --> 00:43:35.039
<v Speaker 3>I don't remember what happened last week with my daughter,

903
00:43:35.719 --> 00:43:37.599
<v Speaker 3>but I think I've been there.

904
00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:40.519
<v Speaker 2>I'll double check with my wife. But yes, taking my

905
00:43:40.559 --> 00:43:42.440
<v Speaker 2>favorite as well, favorite musician.

906
00:43:42.199 --> 00:43:45.280
<v Speaker 1>Or band Lil Wayne. I'm I'm a hip hop guy.

907
00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:48.559
<v Speaker 3>It's a favorite movie.

908
00:43:49.599 --> 00:43:52.639
<v Speaker 1>I would say Interstellar. I like sci fi movies.

909
00:43:52.920 --> 00:43:54.119
<v Speaker 3>That's one of my favorites as well.

910
00:43:54.280 --> 00:43:58.079
<v Speaker 1>Favorite book, staying in the same vein, I would say

911
00:43:58.320 --> 00:44:04.000
<v Speaker 1>Hyperspace by Michio So it's about higher dimensional space string

912
00:44:04.079 --> 00:44:07.039
<v Speaker 1>theory and it's really just like I read it and

913
00:44:07.079 --> 00:44:09.559
<v Speaker 1>it opened my eyes to the possibilities of our universe

914
00:44:09.599 --> 00:44:11.559
<v Speaker 1>and kind of just hooked me. And you know, it's

915
00:44:11.599 --> 00:44:16.679
<v Speaker 1>pretty cool understanding these like theoretical but possibly true underpinnings

916
00:44:16.679 --> 00:44:19.320
<v Speaker 1>of how the universe actually works and opens your mind

917
00:44:19.320 --> 00:44:22.719
<v Speaker 1>to higher dimensions the multiverse, like all all this cool stuff.

918
00:44:23.119 --> 00:44:24.920
<v Speaker 3>I'm very into that stuff too, So I'm gonna check

919
00:44:24.920 --> 00:44:25.199
<v Speaker 3>that out.

920
00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:27.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we do a whole other podcasts on that.

921
00:44:28.679 --> 00:44:30.079
<v Speaker 3>And when you're not working, what are you doing for

922
00:44:30.079 --> 00:44:30.559
<v Speaker 3>a fun.

923
00:44:31.440 --> 00:44:34.280
<v Speaker 1>So these days, I'm a dad of too, So you know,

924
00:44:34.320 --> 00:44:36.719
<v Speaker 1>between that and running a startup, there's I don't have

925
00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:39.440
<v Speaker 1>much free time. But lately I've gotten really into running,

926
00:44:39.840 --> 00:44:42.039
<v Speaker 1>so I go to the gym every single day for

927
00:44:42.039 --> 00:44:44.599
<v Speaker 1>at least an hour. I run, I lift a couple

928
00:44:44.639 --> 00:44:47.199
<v Speaker 1>times a week, hit the sauna and steam room, and

929
00:44:47.239 --> 00:44:50.639
<v Speaker 1>while I'm doing it, I listen to books on Audible

930
00:44:50.760 --> 00:44:53.280
<v Speaker 1>or podcasts just to learn more about what's going on.

931
00:44:53.360 --> 00:44:55.719
<v Speaker 1>So it's kind of like killing two birds with one stone,

932
00:44:55.760 --> 00:44:57.719
<v Speaker 1>you know. I get I stay healthy, and I'm able

933
00:44:57.800 --> 00:44:59.039
<v Speaker 1>to learn while i'm doing it.

934
00:44:59.400 --> 00:45:02.039
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I'm the same way I hit the gym,

935
00:45:02.159 --> 00:45:04.960
<v Speaker 2>I got my pods in listen to a podcast or audiobook.

936
00:45:05.039 --> 00:45:06.559
<v Speaker 3>So yeah, good stuff, Dan.

937
00:45:07.360 --> 00:45:10.000
<v Speaker 2>I love what you guys are doing, and certainly this

938
00:45:10.119 --> 00:45:12.960
<v Speaker 2>is the future, and I feel like maybe five years

939
00:45:12.960 --> 00:45:15.079
<v Speaker 2>from now we'll look back at a conversation like this

940
00:45:15.159 --> 00:45:16.880
<v Speaker 2>and like, look at what's been set up.

941
00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:19.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I can't wait. Thanks again for having me, Yeah, absolutely,

942
00:45:19.840 --> 00:45:20.400
<v Speaker 1>thank you