WEBVTT 1 00:00:26.399 --> 00:00:27.519 Hello, my friend. 2 00:00:27.879 --> 00:00:32.240 Hello, we are back for episode two of Are you 3 00:00:32.280 --> 00:00:33.200 ready for it? 4 00:00:33.320 --> 00:00:34.920 B Gay Solve Crime? 5 00:00:35.119 --> 00:00:35.560 That's it? 6 00:00:35.880 --> 00:00:37.840 Yes, And you know what's so crazy is like I 7 00:00:37.880 --> 00:00:41.600 didn't get it until I said it out loud and 8 00:00:41.679 --> 00:00:44.560 everybody else was like, duh, that's everywhere. 9 00:00:44.920 --> 00:00:46.920 So for those who may not know, it's a play 10 00:00:47.000 --> 00:00:51.759 off of Begay Do Crime. So that's like a a 11 00:00:51.920 --> 00:00:53.960 saying that's out there. As far as I don't know, 12 00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:54.799 i've seen any link T. 13 00:00:54.759 --> 00:00:57.159 Shirts and stuff, Yeah, well now I have them. 14 00:00:58.200 --> 00:00:59.920 So now Allie's educated. 15 00:01:00.159 --> 00:01:02.399 Educated on this pop culture that I've missed. 16 00:01:03.039 --> 00:01:07.079 Our goal here is to solve crime and tell stories 17 00:01:07.079 --> 00:01:11.200 of true crime. Really at the forefront of our desire 18 00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:13.439 to do this is the murder of Katie Janis that 19 00:01:13.519 --> 00:01:16.239 happened in Atlanta, where Ali and I both live. 20 00:01:16.359 --> 00:01:19.799 I'm in Atlanta native Ali. You've lived here for. 21 00:01:19.879 --> 00:01:22.280 I don't know how many years, twenty plus years. And 22 00:01:22.480 --> 00:01:26.439 Katie was a queer woman that lived in Atlanta that 23 00:01:26.480 --> 00:01:30.280 worked at some of the bars in midtown, very well 24 00:01:30.319 --> 00:01:33.040 known around the queer community. I do know that she 25 00:01:33.200 --> 00:01:36.040 was very private. That was something that I just read 26 00:01:36.079 --> 00:01:38.040 about her recently because I was kind of like, why 27 00:01:38.079 --> 00:01:40.400 are there not more people talking about this. From what 28 00:01:40.519 --> 00:01:43.879 I've I've read her, she was a private person, and 29 00:01:43.959 --> 00:01:46.879 you know, we want to respect that, but also I 30 00:01:46.920 --> 00:01:49.040 think that no matter how private you are. 31 00:01:48.920 --> 00:01:52.879 You deserve justice, absolutely crime to be solved. 32 00:01:52.959 --> 00:01:56.760 So and there really hasn't been much. You don't see 33 00:01:56.799 --> 00:01:59.120 interviews about this, You don't. It was sort of like 34 00:01:59.159 --> 00:02:01.920 it was big news, but everybody was scared where we. 35 00:02:01.799 --> 00:02:06.040 Live after it happened, but then nothing right. 36 00:02:06.319 --> 00:02:08.120 We want to kind of bring more attention to this 37 00:02:08.240 --> 00:02:11.159 case and also just kind of maybe help people to 38 00:02:11.240 --> 00:02:13.919 kind of think about some avenues that are possible. So 39 00:02:14.520 --> 00:02:17.120 you know, we're interviewing people to get their take and 40 00:02:17.639 --> 00:02:19.960 hopefully lead this down. 41 00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:22.879 The path of being resolved. So, Ali, would you like 42 00:02:22.919 --> 00:02:24.560 to introduce our guests that you. 43 00:02:24.879 --> 00:02:25.759 Leave for us? 44 00:02:26.159 --> 00:02:28.639 So we have Steph where to us here and she 45 00:02:28.919 --> 00:02:32.759 is a master police officer from Southwest Florida who also 46 00:02:33.039 --> 00:02:37.280 worked did detective work for multiple years in Florida. And 47 00:02:37.520 --> 00:02:40.759 I had a pretty lengthy conversation with Steph and realized 48 00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:45.039 she would add a lot more to this topic because 49 00:02:45.400 --> 00:02:49.120 you and I admittedly don't know a lot about detective work. 50 00:02:49.159 --> 00:02:51.639 And it's so I have a degree from like Dateline 51 00:02:51.719 --> 00:02:53.080 University exactly. 52 00:02:53.560 --> 00:02:55.919 And not only that, it's like it's so easy to 53 00:02:56.039 --> 00:02:57.520 cast stones. 54 00:02:57.520 --> 00:02:58.919 I mean, one of the things that I said to 55 00:02:58.960 --> 00:03:01.800 Steph is like, this feel so easy, Like why didn't 56 00:03:01.800 --> 00:03:04.759 they do this? Tell me why? So I don't know it. 57 00:03:04.879 --> 00:03:07.680 Sometimes there's a lot of reasons why, and I think 58 00:03:08.120 --> 00:03:10.639 so to get a professional on feels like the right 59 00:03:10.639 --> 00:03:11.080 thing to do. 60 00:03:11.479 --> 00:03:13.240 So Seth, thank you so much for joining us. 61 00:03:13.360 --> 00:03:14.319 Sure, thanks for having me. 62 00:03:14.560 --> 00:03:15.879 Yeah, I really appreciate it. 63 00:03:16.120 --> 00:03:18.879 One of the things that immediately I think the biggest 64 00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:22.319 glaring thing about this crime is it was just so gruesome, 65 00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:24.759 Like it's not just like a murder that happens because 66 00:03:24.759 --> 00:03:27.680 you're robbing someone or you're This was a murder that 67 00:03:27.759 --> 00:03:33.080 took place at a very public, very popular park in Atlanta, 68 00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:38.199 and the crime scene included mutilation, it included It was 69 00:03:38.240 --> 00:03:42.719 so heinous of a crime that it kind of shook everybody. 70 00:03:42.879 --> 00:03:45.759 And so I think let's start there. Because one of 71 00:03:45.759 --> 00:03:47.800 the things you said to me that was really interesting 72 00:03:48.000 --> 00:03:53.319 was the mode of the killing was stabbing wounds. It 73 00:03:53.439 --> 00:03:57.719 was like, gosh, Melissa, fifty stab wounds. And one of 74 00:03:57.759 --> 00:04:00.439 the things Steph mentioned right away is the proxy that 75 00:04:00.479 --> 00:04:04.199 person must have had to her and her dog. So 76 00:04:05.080 --> 00:04:07.120 what I guess say more about that because I thought 77 00:04:07.120 --> 00:04:08.199 that was interesting. 78 00:04:07.840 --> 00:04:08.599 What you said. 79 00:04:08.919 --> 00:04:12.919 There's all different types of reasons why people will commit 80 00:04:13.000 --> 00:04:17.759 crimes or specifically homicides. I mean, there's crimes of passion, 81 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:24.439 there's revenge, there's greed, there's flat out just mental illness 82 00:04:24.480 --> 00:04:28.319 where there's no rhyme or reason. So with the knife 83 00:04:28.439 --> 00:04:32.759 n knife attacks are more difficult just because you do 84 00:04:32.839 --> 00:04:36.680 have to get closer to that person. We have described 85 00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:41.079 them more in a more like intimate with knife stabbings 86 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:43.959 because you know, you kind of have to look at 87 00:04:43.959 --> 00:04:45.240 the person while you're doing it. 88 00:04:45.560 --> 00:04:45.879 Wow. 89 00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:48.839 Whereas if they had a firearm or you know, just 90 00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:50.720 shot them, they could do it from a distance. They 91 00:04:50.720 --> 00:04:53.879 don't have to get very close. And the number of 92 00:04:53.959 --> 00:04:59.439 times she was stabbed is super aggressive in overkill. So 93 00:05:00.040 --> 00:05:04.800 for me personally, it doesn't sound random, but it's possible. 94 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:08.680 But for the amount of stab wounds, the fact that 95 00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:12.079 the dog was killed as well, the fact that something 96 00:05:12.160 --> 00:05:15.279 was carved into her, that sounds kind of personal to me. 97 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:18.439 That's kind of how we've felt or it either personal 98 00:05:19.240 --> 00:05:22.600 or maybe some form of hate crime. 99 00:05:23.959 --> 00:05:25.839 Hate drives a lot of things as well. 100 00:05:25.879 --> 00:05:28.199 And we've also Ali and I have talked about too 101 00:05:28.279 --> 00:05:31.279 that you know, maybe she was, you know, walking through 102 00:05:31.279 --> 00:05:33.959 the park sometimes you see the same people. She might 103 00:05:33.959 --> 00:05:36.920 have been familiar with someone enough that they were able 104 00:05:36.959 --> 00:05:38.839 to get that close to her, just someone that she 105 00:05:39.079 --> 00:05:41.120 saw out and about kind of frequently. 106 00:05:41.480 --> 00:05:44.519 Right, Yeah, But to kill like the dog, like to me, 107 00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:47.000 like what always like haunts me is that to kill 108 00:05:47.519 --> 00:05:50.839 a pit ball and its owner. First of all, you've 109 00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:54.079 got to be so out of your mind because you're 110 00:05:54.199 --> 00:05:58.079 that's scary in of itself. But also they had time, 111 00:05:58.199 --> 00:06:00.360 it's like the minute, let's if they can killed the 112 00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:04.040 dog first, she would have been watching that and so 113 00:06:04.240 --> 00:06:07.360 essentially like she would have had I don't know, some 114 00:06:07.519 --> 00:06:10.839 moment to scream or some moment to nobody heard anything. 115 00:06:10.920 --> 00:06:13.800 If somebody is screaming at the park in that location, 116 00:06:14.399 --> 00:06:18.439 there is zero percent chance that nobody heard because it's 117 00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:19.439 there's people ever. 118 00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:20.439 Even at that time of night. 119 00:06:20.560 --> 00:06:21.439 And then at that time of. 120 00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:24.399 Night, or they killed her first. But if they killed 121 00:06:24.399 --> 00:06:27.480 her first, that dog would have been going that shit crazy. 122 00:06:28.040 --> 00:06:30.959 So it would have been very difficult to kill the dog, right. 123 00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:34.040 I think that maybe the dog was killed first. Who 124 00:06:34.079 --> 00:06:36.519 knows where this person was at the time. They could 125 00:06:36.519 --> 00:06:38.680 have been hiding in a bush, They could have been, 126 00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:42.879 like you said, somebody that she knew, and she just 127 00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:46.279 didn't think twice about it, and then they had enough 128 00:06:46.439 --> 00:06:47.879 time to do what they did. 129 00:06:48.199 --> 00:06:51.079 From what I've read, the dog actually did manage to 130 00:06:51.079 --> 00:06:53.480 bite the person. They were able to get like a 131 00:06:53.879 --> 00:06:56.680 small amount of DNA, but then I really haven't heard 132 00:06:56.759 --> 00:07:00.120 much from that further, So I kind of wonder or 133 00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:02.680 if like whatever DNA they found was just too minimal 134 00:07:02.920 --> 00:07:05.439 or it wasn't a match to anything, Like how does 135 00:07:05.480 --> 00:07:06.319 that kind of thing work. 136 00:07:06.920 --> 00:07:10.519 I'm not a forensic scientist or person that deals with DNA, 137 00:07:10.600 --> 00:07:15.639 and so I would assume that they maybe swabbed the 138 00:07:15.720 --> 00:07:19.040 dog's mouth, even if there's no blood in the dog's mouth. 139 00:07:19.079 --> 00:07:21.879 You know, if the dog sinks his teeth into human flesh, 140 00:07:21.879 --> 00:07:23.920 there's got to be some sort of remnants there to 141 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:28.600 be able to get on a swab sample buckle swab. Yeah, 142 00:07:28.639 --> 00:07:32.199 And sometimes it's just it's not enough of a sample 143 00:07:32.399 --> 00:07:34.720 to have anything turn. 144 00:07:34.519 --> 00:07:37.639 Out as far as like the database goes like, how 145 00:07:37.680 --> 00:07:40.519 would that if there was enough, like is it? You know, 146 00:07:40.600 --> 00:07:42.839 it goes in those database, but it's only people that 147 00:07:42.959 --> 00:07:45.079 have like some kind of like criminal history that they're 148 00:07:45.120 --> 00:07:45.759 looking into. 149 00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:50.639 It's called CODIS Combined DNA Index System, So it's ran 150 00:07:50.720 --> 00:07:53.879 by the FBI. It's managed by the FBI, and basically 151 00:07:53.920 --> 00:07:58.439 they put everyone that has been an offender, arrested, or 152 00:07:59.240 --> 00:08:02.879 have legal files, they place them in this database. That's 153 00:08:02.920 --> 00:08:05.480 where you're gonna get your comparisons from. So if they're 154 00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:07.800 not in that system, then yeah, you're not gonna get 155 00:08:08.079 --> 00:08:10.199 a hit. You might be able to get some information 156 00:08:10.399 --> 00:08:15.000 from it, like the donor is mail's that's about the 157 00:08:15.040 --> 00:08:16.439 extent of it. You're not gonna get a ton. 158 00:08:16.920 --> 00:08:18.279 Would it ever be like that? 159 00:08:18.360 --> 00:08:21.800 They would have said, we've got this little bit of DNA, 160 00:08:22.279 --> 00:08:24.839 We're gonna basically go into the park and the group 161 00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:27.399 of homeless people that live there or the regular people 162 00:08:27.439 --> 00:08:29.680 that are in the park, We're just gonna ask for 163 00:08:29.800 --> 00:08:32.480 DNA samples or is that like? Nobody's going to that 164 00:08:32.559 --> 00:08:34.879 extent even if they haven't have to be at You 165 00:08:34.960 --> 00:08:35.799 have to get a warrant. 166 00:08:35.919 --> 00:08:38.320 Yeah, you gotta get warrants for pretty much everything. It's 167 00:08:38.600 --> 00:08:41.440 it's just your safety blanket for us. Even if we 168 00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:44.639 had consent, we would still go the length of getting 169 00:08:44.679 --> 00:08:46.759 a warrant, just because we wanted to make sure that 170 00:08:46.840 --> 00:08:49.960 everything would be admissible in court later down the road. 171 00:08:50.159 --> 00:08:52.679 And it's like if someone had a dog bite, depending 172 00:08:52.679 --> 00:08:55.519 on how severe it is, that again seems like there 173 00:08:55.559 --> 00:08:58.240 would have been someone in Atlanta that would have been like, oh, 174 00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:00.480 that's weird, my friend has a dog bite. 175 00:09:00.639 --> 00:09:03.080 Yeah, or they went to the hospital, maybe to get 176 00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:05.879 it treated or you know, get a shot, but they 177 00:09:05.960 --> 00:09:08.320 might have the mindset up if I do that, it's 178 00:09:08.320 --> 00:09:10.240 got to be reported because in Florida, if you get 179 00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:12.919 bit by an animal, you have to go and you 180 00:09:12.960 --> 00:09:14.320 go to the hospital, get it treated. 181 00:09:14.440 --> 00:09:16.879 You have to do like a Raby's report or something. 182 00:09:17.000 --> 00:09:17.320 Yeah. 183 00:09:17.399 --> 00:09:20.759 Yeah, Melissa, do you know the extent of the dog bite? 184 00:09:21.360 --> 00:09:24.519 Like, I don't, Okay, I mean, it could have been 185 00:09:24.519 --> 00:09:27.120 a nip, but I would I mean, I've been bitten 186 00:09:27.200 --> 00:09:29.559 by a Yorki and it broke my skin, you know, 187 00:09:29.759 --> 00:09:32.399 so I would imagine even if it wasn't knit by 188 00:09:32.399 --> 00:09:35.399 a pit bull, it's gonna do a little bit of damage, 189 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:38.919 but maybe not to the extent that they needed medical treatment, 190 00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:42.639 or you know, they just treated it themselves and took 191 00:09:42.639 --> 00:09:45.960 the risk. But I think that kind of leads into 192 00:09:45.960 --> 00:09:49.840 the other part of like this in my eyes, and 193 00:09:50.120 --> 00:09:52.080 I don't know if I've watched too much Dexter, but 194 00:09:52.159 --> 00:09:55.759 it sounds like it's a very bloody crime scene and 195 00:09:55.799 --> 00:09:59.080 the person that did it the blood and the slipperiness 196 00:09:59.080 --> 00:10:01.600 of the blood and you end up cutting your own hand, 197 00:10:02.080 --> 00:10:05.480 but also just being completely covered, Like how does someone 198 00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:08.440 just walk away and not be noticed. 199 00:10:08.360 --> 00:10:10.960 Or even stripping off their clothes. I mean, there's just 200 00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:12.320 so much trail there. 201 00:10:12.600 --> 00:10:14.720 You compare the park to the size of the Central Park, 202 00:10:14.799 --> 00:10:15.200 I mean. 203 00:10:15.159 --> 00:10:17.919 That's Atlanta's version of some park. 204 00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:20.840 It's one hundred and eighty nine acres, so there is 205 00:10:20.919 --> 00:10:23.639 a lot of like woods and stuff like that to 206 00:10:23.720 --> 00:10:26.080 kind of dunk in it out of. There's a pond 207 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:28.200 in the middle that they could have They did drag 208 00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:30.240 the pond and search it. There weren't neither like murder 209 00:10:30.279 --> 00:10:32.879 weapons found, but I kind of wonder if like they 210 00:10:32.879 --> 00:10:35.039 could have even just gone and swam through the pond 211 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:37.919 and gotten a lot of blood off of them. 212 00:10:38.200 --> 00:10:41.919 Yeah, when you're in a park that has bushes and 213 00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:45.320 trees and little nooks and crannies that you can hide into, 214 00:10:45.639 --> 00:10:49.279 it's pretty easy to conceal yourself. I would think, especially 215 00:10:49.320 --> 00:10:50.039 if it's dark out. 216 00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:54.440 As a former investigator of these kind of crimes, like, 217 00:10:54.519 --> 00:10:58.320 how would you or your team, you know, what would 218 00:10:58.360 --> 00:11:00.679 you guys have done in that instance as far as 219 00:11:00.759 --> 00:11:02.559 like because one of the things that stood out to 220 00:11:02.559 --> 00:11:04.919 Ally and I is that they didn't really I mean, 221 00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:06.559 of course the crime scene was roped off, but the 222 00:11:06.600 --> 00:11:08.799 rest of the park, you know, like I would feel 223 00:11:08.840 --> 00:11:11.039 like that's like a gigantic crime scene. 224 00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:14.320 We would definitely rope off the immediate scene because you 225 00:11:14.399 --> 00:11:17.440 only get that scene once. As soon as you close it, 226 00:11:17.720 --> 00:11:21.919 that evidence is gone. You want to secure and preserve 227 00:11:22.279 --> 00:11:25.279 that area as best as you can. Would I close 228 00:11:25.320 --> 00:11:28.960 off the rest of the park probably, And then you know, 229 00:11:29.000 --> 00:11:31.960 once we process the immediate scene, then we start looking 230 00:11:32.360 --> 00:11:35.240 around that surrounding areas of the immediate scene, so it 231 00:11:35.279 --> 00:11:37.559 would be the rest of the park, and maybe have 232 00:11:38.159 --> 00:11:42.960 other officers kind of comb through sections of that park 233 00:11:43.360 --> 00:11:47.519 with canines or anything that can do like an article search. 234 00:11:47.799 --> 00:11:51.480 You know, articles include guns and knives and clothes, and 235 00:11:51.639 --> 00:11:55.159 just go through that just to see if anything could 236 00:11:55.159 --> 00:11:59.440 be found. And then if nothing comes comes about, then yeah, 237 00:11:59.480 --> 00:12:01.600 you open up up the majority of the park. But 238 00:12:01.639 --> 00:12:04.639 I think that would have been a good idea at least, 239 00:12:04.759 --> 00:12:05.840 you know, check that box. 240 00:12:06.279 --> 00:12:08.759 I don't even remember there being like that is now 241 00:12:08.799 --> 00:12:10.200 that you mentioned it, the canine thing. 242 00:12:10.279 --> 00:12:11.480 I mean, canines could have. 243 00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:14.600 Found a lot of evidence blood. So I mean, isn't 244 00:12:14.600 --> 00:12:16.000 that like one of the main things. 245 00:12:16.120 --> 00:12:17.759 Yeah, Like I don't. 246 00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:21.240 I remember jogging very soon after that crime, and I 247 00:12:21.279 --> 00:12:23.279 could see where it was taped off. I mean, that's 248 00:12:23.279 --> 00:12:26.519 how little they were. It wasn't a big area roped off. 249 00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:29.559 It was a tiny area roped off. But it's like 250 00:12:29.600 --> 00:12:31.840 if they had done it like a canine, I don't 251 00:12:31.879 --> 00:12:33.000 remember seeing canines. 252 00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:34.080 Maybe they were there and I didn't. 253 00:12:34.200 --> 00:12:34.919 Yeah, I mean they could have. 254 00:12:35.080 --> 00:12:37.679 They probably would have done that immediately after, right like 255 00:12:37.799 --> 00:12:39.600 before sunrise. 256 00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:43.159 You know, just rope off the entire park, have officers 257 00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:46.240 whatever entrances are available, and just say that parts closed 258 00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:47.320 at this yeah time. 259 00:12:47.919 --> 00:12:50.799 I mean, they could have done that, you know, immediately 260 00:12:50.840 --> 00:12:53.440 after and then then like let's you know, open the 261 00:12:53.480 --> 00:12:56.200 park back up. But it was just between those hours 262 00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:57.600 that we know of that it was open like the 263 00:12:57.639 --> 00:13:01.320 next morning. But I also wondered too if like waiting 264 00:13:01.399 --> 00:13:04.600 until the sun came up and doing another sweep with daylight. 265 00:13:04.799 --> 00:13:06.519 Yeah, that would have been beneficial as well. 266 00:13:06.799 --> 00:13:08.919 You know, one of the things that we've kind of 267 00:13:08.919 --> 00:13:12.200 been told by a couple people is that, you know, 268 00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:16.639 Atlanta's it's not the safest city on the planet, but 269 00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:20.480 we feel relatively safe. I've been in Pimont Park hundreds 270 00:13:20.519 --> 00:13:23.600 of times. I lived across the street, like literally across 271 00:13:23.639 --> 00:13:25.639 the street from there for a couple of years. I 272 00:13:25.759 --> 00:13:27.919 have a condo now that's like a few blocks away. 273 00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:31.679 I've never felt unsafe in that park, but I mean, 274 00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:33.960 we were scared there for a little while, and like, 275 00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:35.240 I don't know, people have kind. 276 00:13:35.159 --> 00:13:35.799 Of dropped it. 277 00:13:35.879 --> 00:13:39.039 And I know that the police department's busy in itself 278 00:13:39.080 --> 00:13:40.559 with a million other things. 279 00:13:40.720 --> 00:13:43.159 But to me, I'm like, this seems like a really 280 00:13:43.320 --> 00:13:44.279 scary crime. 281 00:13:44.960 --> 00:13:47.759 Why isn't it. It doesn't feel prioritized. I guess it's 282 00:13:47.799 --> 00:13:49.440 my ultimate point here. 283 00:13:49.759 --> 00:13:52.399 Yeah, sort of all asking you the question, because I 284 00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:54.240 this is something you and I talked about, is do 285 00:13:54.320 --> 00:13:56.919 you feel like like one of our friends that's a 286 00:13:56.960 --> 00:13:59.320 police officer here. She said, unless there's a lot of 287 00:13:59.320 --> 00:14:03.759 pressure from family or the community, they sort of there's 288 00:14:03.799 --> 00:14:06.519 too many so they don't really prioritize it unless it's 289 00:14:06.559 --> 00:14:08.720 on TV and pressure and we got to do this, 290 00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:11.840 and I'm curious, like, I think, what the question I 291 00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:15.000 asked you is do they You said they keep working 292 00:14:15.039 --> 00:14:17.240 on cold cases, but like in this case, her family 293 00:14:17.320 --> 00:14:21.000 didn't live here. The part I think everybody in the 294 00:14:21.039 --> 00:14:23.879 immediate vicinity was kind of I don't know, what would 295 00:14:23.919 --> 00:14:26.000 you say. Maybe they were so sad they just wanted 296 00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:29.000 it to be over and didn't. It didn't feel like 297 00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:31.600 after two weeks went by, there was any pressure at all, 298 00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:33.600 Like I don't I remember it just being all right, 299 00:14:33.639 --> 00:14:35.279 I guess we're all going back to the park like 300 00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:36.440 it's done. 301 00:14:36.799 --> 00:14:37.840 That was how I felt. 302 00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:41.279 How do they prioritize these cases when after two weeks 303 00:14:41.279 --> 00:14:42.159 it's not solved. 304 00:14:42.200 --> 00:14:45.399 Well, every agency is different, you know, we spoke about mine. 305 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:50.799 We have five detectives. When a homicide occurs, we drop 306 00:14:50.919 --> 00:14:54.840 everything else that we're working and we it's all hands 307 00:14:54.840 --> 00:14:57.559 on deck towards working that homicide and trying to close 308 00:14:57.600 --> 00:15:00.879 it out. We don't have the call volume life Atlanta 309 00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:04.759 HEDI does. So I don't know the extent of how 310 00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:08.679 many homicides they have a year, but maybe they just 311 00:15:08.720 --> 00:15:11.399 don't have the luxury of being able to work one 312 00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:16.399 super super long, especially if they're if their leads are 313 00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:18.960 running dry and it's starting to go cold, and you 314 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:22.720 mentioned pressure. Pressure does it helps? I mean, especially when 315 00:15:22.759 --> 00:15:24.240 you try to go to the news and things like that, 316 00:15:24.399 --> 00:15:26.519 and you know, police departments don't want to look bad, 317 00:15:26.840 --> 00:15:31.240 so pressure does help. But I think with Atlanta and 318 00:15:31.399 --> 00:15:35.799 their amount of call volume, it just sounds like they 319 00:15:35.799 --> 00:15:37.399 were running out of leads. 320 00:15:37.799 --> 00:15:39.639 But do you ever run out of leads? 321 00:15:39.919 --> 00:15:42.679 Like it's almost like your leads never dry up if 322 00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:46.240 you do every single stone. But I wonder like, at 323 00:15:46.240 --> 00:15:48.440 what point are they just like this is low, Like 324 00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:50.720 we're not going to work on this anymore, because it's 325 00:15:50.759 --> 00:15:52.000 probably fruitless. 326 00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:54.960 They would just have to think outside the box. Leads 327 00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:57.320 can run dry, for sure, That's why cases go cold. 328 00:15:57.759 --> 00:16:00.759 One thing stuff said to me on our pre call 329 00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:03.279 was just but a cell phone is a journal of 330 00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:06.759 the what happened. And I say more about that because 331 00:16:06.759 --> 00:16:08.480 I think that's so true with everything. 332 00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:10.600 I mean, your life is there, Oh. 333 00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:14.840 Yeah, everybody puts everything out there. We can say if 334 00:16:14.840 --> 00:16:17.679 we do a forensic download on a phone, if that 335 00:16:17.720 --> 00:16:20.039 person had social media, we can do a warrant for that, 336 00:16:20.200 --> 00:16:23.720 whether it's Snapchat, Instagram, Twitter, we can look at all 337 00:16:23.759 --> 00:16:25.759 of their logs for that. We can look at all 338 00:16:25.759 --> 00:16:31.679 their previous photos, we can look at their most recent communications, 339 00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:35.759 their text message threads. Who they were talking to within 340 00:16:35.799 --> 00:16:38.519 the last twenty four to forty eight hours of their life. 341 00:16:38.600 --> 00:16:40.720 You know, you want to try to build that, try 342 00:16:40.759 --> 00:16:43.399 to figure out what their life looked like prior to 343 00:16:43.480 --> 00:16:45.759 their murder, at least twenty four to forty eight hours. 344 00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:49.960 We do the same thing with suicides. We want to 345 00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:52.679 try to figure out where they were mentally, who they 346 00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:55.360 were talking to. I remember I had a case where 347 00:16:55.840 --> 00:16:57.600 it was said it was a female and it was 348 00:16:57.639 --> 00:17:00.679 an accidental hanging. It was all captured on her phone. 349 00:17:00.919 --> 00:17:01.360 Oh boy. 350 00:17:01.759 --> 00:17:05.680 So you know, with homicides you have to work it 351 00:17:05.720 --> 00:17:08.039 is it a homicide, is it an accident or is 352 00:17:08.079 --> 00:17:09.960 it a suicide? And you have to kind of roll 353 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:15.000 which one it is. So this case was fairly easy 354 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:17.559 for me to solve because I found everything on her phone. 355 00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:18.359 Wow. 356 00:17:18.920 --> 00:17:22.400 I had another homicide case where we were able to 357 00:17:22.839 --> 00:17:27.319 pol the phone logs from the victim and we're seeing 358 00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:30.559 like just phone numbers maybe from the last twenty four 359 00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:33.119 hours to forty eight hours, and we had a spreadsheet 360 00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:35.000 of the phone numbers and we went through each phone 361 00:17:35.079 --> 00:17:37.720 number trying to figure out who it belonged to, who 362 00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:40.359 the service was, and we were able to figure out 363 00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:43.559 a person of interest and seeing that he was in 364 00:17:43.599 --> 00:17:45.200 communication with his killer. 365 00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:46.480 Oh wow, so. 366 00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:49.680 A ton of a ton of information that is in that. 367 00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:53.279 Phone, which it makes me, like you think, certainly they 368 00:17:54.200 --> 00:17:58.400 went through her phone that, yeah. 369 00:17:58.200 --> 00:18:00.519 I would give The first things I would do is 370 00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:02.079 do a forensic download on her phone. 371 00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:05.559 And it is such a blurry line between like to 372 00:18:05.599 --> 00:18:09.359 your point, like the person it seemingly wasn't had some 373 00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:12.160 kind of intimacy with her to get that close with 374 00:18:12.200 --> 00:18:16.839 her and her pet with no noise being made, but 375 00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:21.039 also mental illness like you said, where it's just completely 376 00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:24.000 fucking random, like you just lose your head and do 377 00:18:24.079 --> 00:18:29.759 something crazy, But there is some overlap there like obviously 378 00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:31.599 the person even in a crime of passion or if 379 00:18:31.640 --> 00:18:34.720 you get close enough, you're mentally ill, so I can 380 00:18:34.759 --> 00:18:37.599 see where like there's no it's hard to like give 381 00:18:37.599 --> 00:18:41.440 a profile to somebody because it's just so many things. 382 00:18:42.039 --> 00:18:44.960 One end, it could be this person was a complete 383 00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:48.799 psychopath and had no empathy and was completely mentally ill. 384 00:18:49.440 --> 00:18:53.359 And sometimes with mentally ill people, you could look at 385 00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:55.079 them the wrong way and they just you know, they 386 00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:59.720 snap right. But there's no real logic behind their actions, 387 00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:03.240 whereas if you take somebody that's just suffering from like 388 00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:08.519 revenge or there's more a methodical plan, there's more, there's 389 00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:11.519 still logic behind it. They're just so overwhelmed with that 390 00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:15.319 emotion that it takes him to an extreme length. 391 00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:16.799 Like the crime of passion thing. 392 00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:22.279 To me, that doesn't it would not be this brutal 393 00:19:22.599 --> 00:19:25.960 I don't know, or maybe like someone would use a 394 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:29.359 gun in that case. To me, it's just like, wow, 395 00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:31.480 that sounds like something a serial killer would do. But 396 00:19:31.640 --> 00:19:35.759 again that's also like all the datelines and scary movies 397 00:19:35.799 --> 00:19:36.519 and all that stuff. 398 00:19:36.519 --> 00:19:38.519 But also it's like you never know. 399 00:19:38.599 --> 00:19:42.119 It could Like there was a serial killer in fairly 400 00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:45.279 recent years, this guy named Israel Keys. I'm not sure 401 00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:47.960