Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's me Stephanie Wilder Tailor. This is Drunkish
Speaker 1: the podcast. But you knew that the goal of this
Speaker 1: podcast is to have fun conversations about sobriety without preaching.
Speaker 1: Just keep it real and please please help me grow
Speaker 1: and go rate and review if you have one minute.
Speaker 1: I'm really excited about today's episode. I have Eleise Bryson.
Speaker 1: She's got twenty years sober. She's the founder of the
Speaker 1: Sober Curator, which is a lifestyle website all about sobriety.
Speaker 1: They have stories, poetry, they talk about non alcoholic drink options,
Speaker 1: they recommend quit lit books, and so much more. So
Speaker 1: go check them out. We will get into all of
Speaker 1: this and how she founded this website in the episode.
Speaker 1: So here's a lease, and we are here with a lease.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming on the show with
Speaker 1: short notice, and uh this is this is airing tomorrow,
Speaker 1: so I'm excited.
Speaker 2: Well that is short notice. Thank you for having me, Stephanie.
Speaker 2: I'm thrilled to be here.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't do a lot of it's not a lot
Speaker 1: of bells and whistles on this podcast.
Speaker 4: I it's it's you pretty real. Yeah, live to you know,
Speaker 4: live to tape, but edit.
Speaker 1: I let your story flow and let unless you say
Speaker 1: some stuff that later.
Speaker 4: You're like, uh oh that has happened, said too much?
Speaker 3: That has happened. I unfortunately learned the hard way.
Speaker 2: One time I shared some stuff that my mom did
Speaker 2: not know about me, and it was okay, like I
Speaker 2: she shouldn't she should have known that about me, but
Speaker 2: she should not have heard it from a podcast versus
Speaker 2: me just telling her.
Speaker 3: So I learned that once.
Speaker 2: And then one time I shared some things about the
Speaker 2: father of my child and like a day later, I
Speaker 2: had to call the podcast or be like, I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: you have to take that out, like or I'm going
Speaker 2: to have to make amends and I don't want to
Speaker 2: do that, so can we just take it out?
Speaker 3: So I have learned. I have learned.
Speaker 1: Yes, my friend and I wanted to come out with
Speaker 1: a t shirt line that was something like I don't
Speaker 1: have room for you on my tent step like you know, little.
Speaker 3: That's good, that's good.
Speaker 4: The only people you know if you know, you know.
Speaker 3: I love inside.
Speaker 2: I love inside bench bench bench talk or inside talk,
Speaker 2: whatever it is.
Speaker 3: I love that I've been here for that all day long.
Speaker 1: One time I went to this meeting, and I called
Speaker 1: my sponsor afterwards and I was so mad, and I said,
Speaker 1: all these I shared at this I shared at this meeting,
Speaker 1: and all these people were like, I said, I don't
Speaker 1: just don't know if I'm an alcoholic. I'm just not sure,
Speaker 1: Like I mean, I'm going to like I'm I'm I'm
Speaker 1: staying sober, but I just don't know if I want
Speaker 1: that label. And I said, all these people shared the well,
Speaker 1: I know I'm an alcoholic, and I was I was like,
Speaker 1: and they were directing that at me, they were judging me,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I think I need to do
Speaker 1: a ten step on the on the whole meeting.
Speaker 3: The whole room, the whole room is on the list tonight, folks.
Speaker 4: My sponsor said, or you just let it go.
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, there's also that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Also, that would be a lot less work. So tell
Speaker 1: me about yourself. You we we were just talking before
Speaker 1: I hit record. You're twenty years sober.
Speaker 2: Just turned twenty yeah, May first to twenty twenty six first, Yeah,
Speaker 2: because I'm telling you, cool kids get sober in May.
Speaker 3: Also in the other months, but there's just May is
Speaker 3: a big month.
Speaker 2: Something must have happened or happens every May, because I
Speaker 2: just noticed. You notice after enough decades, right when you're
Speaker 2: in places at celebrate anniversary, birthdays, whatever you want to.
Speaker 3: Call it, Like some months have a lot more than others.
Speaker 2: Like January is another really big month, and that one's
Speaker 2: kind of obvious as to why.
Speaker 3: But I've just noticed that May is a big month.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's kind of hacked to get sober
Speaker 1: in January.
Speaker 4: So I want it to be different, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I will say.
Speaker 2: So my date is May first, and that was before
Speaker 2: May the fourth, be with you, and I'm a star
Speaker 2: wars nerd so I'm a little like I contemplated one year.
Speaker 2: I was like a little relapse, just a little three
Speaker 2: day or like, so I could get the date that
Speaker 2: I want.
Speaker 3: And then my sponsor at the time, she's.
Speaker 2: Like, was like, or you could just change your date,
Speaker 2: like there's not like a date police, And I was.
Speaker 3: Like, oh, but also but it wasn't that day.
Speaker 2: But I mean probably I had enough in my system
Speaker 2: it could have been that day, like you know, but anyway,
Speaker 2: I stuck with the OG date. But I do think
Speaker 2: if I if I ever have to do it again,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be thoughtful about the date because you use
Speaker 2: it so frequently, so it's an important day, like you know,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: When I first got sober. The truth is, I'm admitting
Speaker 1: this to you for the first time. I don't know
Speaker 1: if I've said this ever. The truth was that May
Speaker 1: twenty second was the last time I got drunk.
Speaker 4: May twenty third actually my sobriety date.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but somehow in my head at the beginning, because
Speaker 1: it makes sense, I was like, Okay, May twenty second,
Speaker 1: that's my last. Then I finished drinking, and I just
Speaker 1: never really it just never occurred to me for a
Speaker 1: long for a couple of years, and then I was like,
Speaker 1: you know, if you really think about it, I wasn't
Speaker 1: sober on May twenty second.
Speaker 4: I was sober on May twenty third. But then I
Speaker 4: was like, I was sort of it. That was my birthday.
Speaker 3: I'm going to change it.
Speaker 2: And I already got my birthday tattooed on my body,
Speaker 2: so like there's kind of you know, I'm committed at
Speaker 2: this point. And somebody asked me once what happens if
Speaker 2: you do relapse, and I was like, you know, here's
Speaker 2: the thing. I would just add the new date and
Speaker 2: maybe put a thin line through the old date, because
Speaker 2: me relapsing doesn't mean the old date didn't matter. It
Speaker 2: mattered in a big, big, big, big big way, right,
Speaker 2: So it doesn't. So that's the other thing about dates
Speaker 2: is they can be important. You can lose them, and
Speaker 2: they don't lose their importance because they're still part of
Speaker 2: the journey, part of the process. And I say this
Speaker 2: because one of my best friend's sons just got sober
Speaker 2: and wait for it, his day is May the fourth,
Speaker 2: and I was like, dude, I don't want to and
Speaker 2: that means he's like not even sixty days sober at
Speaker 2: this point, right, or just barely sixty days. And I
Speaker 2: was like, dude, I don't want to put the pressure on,
Speaker 2: but like, you have picked the best date and you
Speaker 2: don't even know it. So just like, if you relapse,
Speaker 2: I'm still gonna love you, I'm still gonna support you,
Speaker 2: but I will probably have a resentment that you had
Speaker 2: the best sober day of the year and you threw
Speaker 2: it away.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I hope that helps him.
Speaker 3: I hope so too. Sure, right, the pressure, So.
Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about your story, like what
Speaker 1: was going on more than twenty years ago, more.
Speaker 2: Than twenty years ago, so more than twenty years ago,
Speaker 2: like twenty and a half years ago. I woke up,
Speaker 2: I was I had I had gotten I woke up
Speaker 2: I live in this I grew up in a small
Speaker 2: town between Seattle and Portland, and I had moved back
Speaker 2: there when I first had my son. Young single mom,
Speaker 2: I got sober, I got not sober. I definitely did
Speaker 2: not get sober at twenty. I got pregnant at twenty,
Speaker 2: so young single mom. I had gone to college, lasted
Speaker 2: in Seattle for like two years, and I was back
Speaker 2: home immediately pregnant and trying to figure out my life.
Speaker 3: And then I fell into.
Speaker 2: A job in advertising at the local newspaper. And I'm
Speaker 2: really good at it. I'm really good at talking. I'm
Speaker 2: really good at talking people into things. I'm really good
Speaker 2: like listening to what people need and then like, here's
Speaker 2: the solution, and a salesperson that's over drinks. So it
Speaker 2: was literally the perfect job for me until it wasn't right.
Speaker 2: And so I woke up one day and I had
Speaker 2: burned most of the bridges in this very small town,
Speaker 2: and I was like, I got to get out of here.
Speaker 2: And my kid's dad and his stepmom lived like north
Speaker 2: of Seattle. So I was like, I'm gonna move to Seattle.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna work for the Seattle Times, and I'll be
Speaker 2: closer to his dad, and I'm just going to start
Speaker 2: my life over.
Speaker 3: Because you know, those of us that deal with deep.
Speaker 2: Addictions, like we love the concept of a clean slate
Speaker 2: and a do over, like right, We're obsessed with it.
Speaker 4: We have a name for it. We call it a geographic.
Speaker 3: Do call it a geographic?
Speaker 2: And so literally from the time I woke up that
Speaker 2: morning and was like, I got to get out of
Speaker 2: here because I had I had stirred up some major drama, right,
Speaker 2: some major drama, and I.
Speaker 3: Was like, I got to get out of here.
Speaker 2: Thirty days later, like to the day I was in Seattle,
Speaker 2: I had the job at the Seattle Times, and I
Speaker 2: was starting over, right, And it was then in that
Speaker 2: six month window that literally all emotional hell broke loose.
Speaker 2: So I had had a lot of consequences from my
Speaker 2: drinking over my career I started around sixteen, A lot
Speaker 2: of consequences, A lot of shady things happened. I did
Speaker 2: a lot of shady things, right, because when you put
Speaker 2: your plate yourself in shady places with shady people, like
Speaker 2: shady things will happen. But this six month, like the
Speaker 2: last six months of my drinking career, nothing really shady
Speaker 2: significant happened, other than because I had removed myself from
Speaker 2: one environment and put myself in a new environment where
Speaker 2: I didn't know very many people. My drinking at home
Speaker 2: really escalated, like really escalated, because up until that point,
Speaker 2: I was just the good time girl, right like I'll
Speaker 2: go out any night of the week and we'll have
Speaker 2: a great time, and I'm a lot of fun until
Speaker 2: I'm not kind of girl. Right Well, now I'm I
Speaker 2: got my son, I don't really know anybody, so.
Speaker 3: I'm drinking at home alone a lot.
Speaker 2: And that's where and I don't know, like I felt
Speaker 2: it in my body, something shifted.
Speaker 3: I'd always been a blackout drinker.
Speaker 2: That was not new, And I had always been when
Speaker 2: I start drinking, I can't stop.
Speaker 3: That was not new.
Speaker 2: But there was something else that shifted that I can't
Speaker 2: I've never been able to like really like label properly.
Speaker 2: It was I like I really lost control and and
Speaker 2: then it was like I was I was breaking every
Speaker 2: rule I had, Like I don't drink before eight pm,
Speaker 2: or I don't drink on Tuesdays.
Speaker 3: That's not true. Daco Tuesday. I always drink on Taco.
Speaker 2: Tuesday Market, Like you know, I like it, just things
Speaker 2: like like I know why, I really no longer had
Speaker 2: a handle on it. And the I had started carpooling
Speaker 2: with this woman I was working at the Seattle time.
Speaker 2: Started carpooling with this woman. She was sober and if
Speaker 2: we car pulled together. She also lived in the area
Speaker 2: that I did, and it was a pretty healthy commute
Speaker 2: into the city, like an hour each way, and we
Speaker 2: would get free parking, and parking was expensive then. It's
Speaker 2: expensive now, but it was expensive then, and I wanted
Speaker 2: to save as much money as I.
Speaker 3: Could so I could buy my alcohol and the other
Speaker 3: things I use with that.
Speaker 2: And so here I am stuck in the car with
Speaker 2: a sober woman like two hours a day, five days
Speaker 2: a week.
Speaker 3: And I didn't and didn't.
Speaker 2: She's not somebody at first I would have like chosen
Speaker 2: to hang out with. But you spend that much time
Speaker 2: with someone, you get to know them, or at least
Speaker 2: she got to know me. Because I was monop monopolizing
Speaker 2: the conversation as I'm doing right now. But I just
Speaker 2: started telling her all of my junk right and she
Speaker 2: would just sit there and listen to it, and she'd
Speaker 2: be like, yeah, I know what that's like. I very similar.
Speaker 2: If you ever want to know what I did, I'm
Speaker 2: happy to like share it with you.
Speaker 3: I'm happy to take you to a meeting.
Speaker 2: And I was like, no, thanks, Like I don't even
Speaker 2: really like you, so I don't want what you have,
Speaker 2: but just keep listening to my stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, boring, just keep listening to my stuff.
Speaker 2: Well, time march on and that inevitable weekend came and
Speaker 2: I called my sister and I was like, I really
Speaker 2: can't do this anymore.
Speaker 3: This is really getting out of control. Like I could
Speaker 3: see the end.
Speaker 2: I could see I hadn't lost anything. I also had
Speaker 2: not gained anything. I think that's doesn't get talked about enough.
Speaker 2: I think we talk a lot about what we lose,
Speaker 2: but like all the things I didn't gain because I
Speaker 2: couldn't because I was either drunk or hungover. Right, but
Speaker 2: I could see that I was going to lose my house,
Speaker 2: or lose my driver's license because I was definitely a
Speaker 2: drunk driver, or lose my job or lose custody of
Speaker 2: my kid. Like it was like it was all about
Speaker 2: to tip and I somehow had this foresight like it
Speaker 2: was going to go down badly. And I called my sister,
Speaker 2: who was a chaplain at the time. She's a therapist
Speaker 2: now specializing in drug and alcohol addiction. I like to
Speaker 2: take credit for her career. She just never appreciates that.
Speaker 2: So I think I really helped her find her way.
Speaker 2: And she had me call one of those eight hundred
Speaker 2: hotline numbers, which was in Seattle. It was inner group,
Speaker 2: and you know, there was some really happy person on
Speaker 2: the other side of the phone telling me to dump
Speaker 2: out my alcohol. And I was like, you're crazy. I'm
Speaker 2: not going to dump it out. I'll give it to
Speaker 2: one of my friends. But like that's like I don't
Speaker 2: even recycle, but I'm not doing that. Like that's crazy.
Speaker 2: And so I called my sister back and I was like,
Speaker 2: that didn't really work.
Speaker 3: You know, she wants me to jump out the alcohol.
Speaker 3: I'm not doing that.
Speaker 2: And she's like, why don't you call the carpool lady
Speaker 2: And I was like, uh, carpool lady.
Speaker 3: So I did.
Speaker 2: I called the carpool lady and Carpoolady took me to
Speaker 2: my first meeting, which I of course hated.
Speaker 3: To be clear, it was an Alano club.
Speaker 4: I hated it.
Speaker 2: I hated it so much so then I made the
Speaker 2: very quick decision of that's not for me. That's not
Speaker 2: going to work, that doesn't work, it's not for me, right,
Speaker 2: And so then that set me off on my little
Speaker 2: adventure of interviewing going to different therapists. I went to
Speaker 2: a couple of treatment centers and did like an intake form,
Speaker 2: and weird, all of them were suggesting that I like
Speaker 2: Sandra Bullock twenty eight Days.
Speaker 3: And I was like, listen, I'm a single mom.
Speaker 2: I have a career. I don't have time for that.
Speaker 2: Like there has to be like is there a pill
Speaker 2: or something you can give me? I love pills, Like
Speaker 2: there's got to be like a pill, you know. And
Speaker 2: they're like, no, no, have you tried? Have you tried
Speaker 2: a twelve step room? And I was like, up, totally
Speaker 2: did it and not for me? Right? And and she
Speaker 2: then prodded, she was like, can you tell me a
Speaker 2: little bit more why? And so as she prodded, I
Speaker 2: gave my answers and she's like, well, there is there
Speaker 2: is a there is a meeting here at the treatment
Speaker 2: center for women only on Tuesday night.
Speaker 4: I was I knew, I was.
Speaker 1: I knew they were going to say, have you tried
Speaker 1: a women's only meeting?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 3: Huh?
Speaker 2: And because women only, no, thanks, like men only sign
Speaker 2: me up, you know, but like uh so I was
Speaker 2: like uh, And she's like, listen, I think if you
Speaker 2: tried this one.
Speaker 3: It's mostly for inpatient, which we still really.
Speaker 2: Commend you do, but the people that come through the
Speaker 2: program and then come back like from outside, you could
Speaker 2: come to it. And I was like, I'll keep that
Speaker 2: in mind. And then she told me they had an
Speaker 2: outpatient program, and I was like, I can do that.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna skip over in patient.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go straight to outpatient because I'm just so
Speaker 2: advanced at everything in life. And I'm gonna wait till
Speaker 2: summer break and my son will go stay with my
Speaker 2: parents and then I will work during the day, I
Speaker 2: will outpatient at night. I will see my son on
Speaker 2: the weekends. I Am going to project manage my rock bottom,
Speaker 2: right And they were like, this doesn't this is not
Speaker 2: a good idea, but okay, if this is the only
Speaker 2: and at this point. It was like we were like
Speaker 2: in April, right, and so she was like, well, what
Speaker 2: are you gonna do between now and then to not drink?
Speaker 2: And I was just like, I'm gonna drink. What are
Speaker 2: you talking about? Like, I don't have to not drink
Speaker 2: for another like thirty days, Calm down, right, And that's
Speaker 2: what she was like, again, the meeting will be here,
Speaker 2: and I'm like I'll sure, okay. Well, then some time
Speaker 2: went by, and then inevitably I had one of those
Speaker 2: weekends of so much shame, guilt and shame.
Speaker 3: And you know, I was just telling this story the
Speaker 3: other day of my last drink.
Speaker 2: If I had known that my last drink was going
Speaker 2: to be my last drink, I would have done a
Speaker 2: much better job, because my last drink is sad and pathetic.
Speaker 2: It was a Sunday. I had been bend shrinking all
Speaker 2: weekend and I woke up very hungover on the couch
Speaker 2: and my son was watching SpongeBob. I can still see
Speaker 2: the room very clearly. We had one of those really big, old,
Speaker 2: the old school big screen TVs that were like just
Speaker 2: as wide deep as they were wide, you know the
Speaker 2: one I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, And how old was your son at this time?
Speaker 3: It was nine at the time.
Speaker 2: Okay, it's almost thirty now, and I was looking around
Speaker 2: immediately I woke up and I needed a drink right
Speaker 2: And the only thing that was left over was this
Speaker 2: warm bottle of opened wine or champagne. It was light
Speaker 2: in color, so I don't remember now, and he had
Speaker 2: the night before he had started filling it with gumballs,
Speaker 2: trying to get me to stop drinking it. That was
Speaker 2: my last drink is warm unopened or warm wine that
Speaker 2: had been opened overnight.
Speaker 3: Filled with gumballs. Like that's sad, you know, it's sad.
Speaker 2: And so so I ended up going to one of
Speaker 2: those meetings on that Tuesday night, and what do you know,
Speaker 2: I heard my story over and over and over and
Speaker 2: over and over, like every single woman had the like
Speaker 2: exact details of my story.
Speaker 3: Not there were no like even variants.
Speaker 2: There was no wiggle room for me to be like, no,
Speaker 2: you're not like them I had.
Speaker 3: I just really confronted the reality of, oh, you are
Speaker 3: an alcoholic.
Speaker 2: I'm very comfortable with that word. Some people aren't, and
Speaker 2: it's okay if you're not, I am. I am too,
Speaker 2: But it takes like I wasn't.
Speaker 3: Then, right, I wasn't then, And I was like, you are.
Speaker 2: And and the thing is I had said it before,
Speaker 2: but i'd said it like a badge of honor, as
Speaker 2: like a joke, like yeah, I'm a professional drinker. Okay,
Speaker 2: I never got paid to drink, to be clear. And
Speaker 2: I was so overwhelmed. And I have told this story
Speaker 2: many times before too, but I ran out of that meeting.
Speaker 3: I got in my car.
Speaker 2: I didn't stay to hold hands, I didn't stay to
Speaker 2: put my chair away. I ran because I confronting reality
Speaker 2: in public brings on emotions.
Speaker 3: Which I didn't know what to do with, and I
Speaker 3: needed out.
Speaker 2: Like if one person had like looked at me funny
Speaker 2: or tried to hug me, I would have completely lost
Speaker 2: my shit. And I ran to the car, and I
Speaker 2: was so mad at God. I grew up in a
Speaker 2: Christian home. Both my grandfathers were pastors. I went to
Speaker 2: a private Christian school where my mother was the teacher. Right,
Speaker 2: so I don't have I don't have a problem with
Speaker 2: the concept of God or a higher power. I was
Speaker 2: really mad at God because I was like, Okay, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm chubby, I'm single, I'm a single Mom, I'm.
Speaker 3: Barely living paycheck to paycheck, and.
Speaker 2: Now you want to take my vodka away, like you're
Speaker 2: just mean, you know, you're just mean and you don't
Speaker 2: care about me, to take the well the only thing
Speaker 2: around that's been there for me, which is obviously not true,
Speaker 2: but that's what I thought in my head. And as
Speaker 2: I was driving back to my house, I was shaking
Speaker 2: my fist at God, just like, if this is really it,
Speaker 2: give me one more sign.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: And as I'm demanding a sign from God, a ding
Speaker 2: goes off in my car and it says.
Speaker 3: Perform service. And I was just like, I had to
Speaker 3: pull over. I had to pull over.
Speaker 2: And yes, I know I needed an oil change, not
Speaker 2: the point of the story. I was demanding a sign
Speaker 2: and I got perform service. I also did not realize
Speaker 2: how funny that line would be over the years, right, Obviously,
Speaker 2: I had no idea. I pulled over to the side
Speaker 2: of the road and I just something cracked open, like surrender.
Speaker 2: I just cracked open and I started like you know
Speaker 2: when you laugh through tears, and there's just booger and
Speaker 2: laugh and crying, and I'm.
Speaker 3: Just sitting there and I'm just like, because.
Speaker 2: My God has a sense of humor. He was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: she's demanding a sign.
Speaker 3: Let's give her one.
Speaker 2: See what she does next, right, And I was like,
Speaker 2: what I mean, Okay, fine, you win, I'm done. I'll
Speaker 2: do whatever. I will literally like, you're right, I'm done,
Speaker 2: and just total surrender. And I wish there was some
Speaker 2: way you could package that up and hand someone told
Speaker 2: her total surrender, but unfortunately it's a very personal experience
Speaker 2: that you just have to get to when you get
Speaker 2: to it. In my that's what I believe. And as
Speaker 2: I was sitting there surrendering and just like I give up, fine,
Speaker 2: I will do whatever, I look back into the dash
Speaker 2: and the perform service had gone away, and what came
Speaker 2: back up was my cast tank and it showed I
Speaker 2: was just a little bit below a quarter of a tank,
Speaker 2: not quite yet on empty. And then what I heard,
Speaker 2: as if there really was a person in the passenger seat,
Speaker 2: which yes, I was hearing voices that is where I
Speaker 2: was in my addiction. What I heard then was God saying,
Speaker 2: you can do this.
Speaker 3: Now. The next time I come back for you, you
Speaker 3: will be past empty.
Speaker 2: And I mean I heard it, and I was just
Speaker 2: and that to me was my burning Bush moment. And
Speaker 2: by the grace of God and a bunch of other things,
Speaker 2: I haven't had a drink since that night, which was
Speaker 2: April thirtieth, two thousand and six.
Speaker 1: So did you go back, did you go into treatment
Speaker 1: into like a thirty day or did you continue?
Speaker 2: Did you stayed on my project management self will plan.
Speaker 2: I did not go to the thirty day because I
Speaker 2: still convinced myself I couldn't afford it, couldn't do it.
Speaker 2: I had good insurance at the time, but I just
Speaker 2: like I couldn't do it. But I did do outpatient
Speaker 2: and I did start hanging out in church basements every
Speaker 2: single day, and I did. I did everything everyone told
Speaker 2: me to do, and you know what, it worked. I
Speaker 2: did get sober and I did stay sober. But I
Speaker 2: around year three or year four, I didn't want to drink.
Speaker 2: I didn't want to live because what had happened is
Speaker 2: I hadn't actually changed anything. I had managed to not
Speaker 2: drink for three or four years. I had managed to
Speaker 2: not put any drugs in my body for three or
Speaker 2: four years. My career had taken off. Now I'm at
Speaker 2: a magazine. I'm running this fancy magazine so I got
Speaker 2: my dream job. By getting sober, great, I became a
Speaker 2: raging workaholic, and I didn't change anything else, meaning I
Speaker 2: was still making a lot of bad, questionable decisions with
Speaker 2: my dating life. You know, there was still a lot.
Speaker 2: I still was not managing money. Well, I was still like,
Speaker 2: nothing really changed other than I wasn't drunk. And so
Speaker 2: where that left me was actually more depressed and more
Speaker 2: shamefull of shame, and more broken at year three or
Speaker 2: four than I was a day three or four, right,
Speaker 2: And that was scary to confront the I don't want
Speaker 2: to live because I was a mom and I was
Speaker 2: like and he was still like very young, you know,
Speaker 2: he was like thirteen at the time, now four fourteen
Speaker 2: at the time. And so that is what it took
Speaker 2: for me to not only meet with a doctor and
Speaker 2: a therapist and get on a plan medically, but I
Speaker 2: also then actually stopped sitting in rooms and I started
Speaker 2: doing step work. And step work is where my life changed.
Speaker 2: That's where everything changed. But the workoholism continued. And where
Speaker 2: that left me was at ten years sober, I had
Speaker 2: emergency heart surgery. So at the age of forty, Yeah,
Speaker 2: at the age of forty, and that is that was
Speaker 2: a direct result of the alcoholic drugs I had put
Speaker 2: in my body for sixteen years and then the stressful
Speaker 2: life I was living for the next ten years. Right,
Speaker 2: And so I have definitely one big walking cautionary tail.
Speaker 3: And I will say what happened then, even.
Speaker 2: Though I had worked the steps at that point a
Speaker 2: couple of times, and I've been sponsoring lots of people,
Speaker 2: and I will say, for me, helping other people through
Speaker 2: their step work was more beneficial than me going through
Speaker 2: it myself. And I stand by that to this day.
Speaker 2: And that's why I will still help people to this day,
Speaker 2: because I get so much out of it. And at
Speaker 2: the end of the day, I'm still super selfish, but
Speaker 2: almost dying at the age of forty, being wheeled into
Speaker 2: emergency heart surgeries, you know, saying goodbye to my son,
Speaker 2: saying goodbye to my parents, not knowing if I was
Speaker 2: coming back out. That'll change your perspective on how you
Speaker 2: do a lot of things. And so the last decade
Speaker 2: has been trying to figure out a career with work
Speaker 2: life balance, which I've done a really good improvement.
Speaker 3: There. Am I perfect?
Speaker 1: There?
Speaker 2: No do? I still tend to work too much sometimes, absolutely,
Speaker 2: But I've got checks and balances in place, right, and
Speaker 2: everything I was doing ten years ago for my recovery
Speaker 2: I still do and a little bit more because I'm
Speaker 2: of the camp that this is a progressive thing that
Speaker 2: I'm not ever going to be cured from.
Speaker 3: It doesn't have to define me, but it's progressive.
Speaker 2: Meaning if I were to pick up a drink today,
Speaker 2: I believe I would be worse off today than I
Speaker 2: was ten years ago, twenty years ago. So if this
Speaker 2: thing is progressive, then I have to be progressive in
Speaker 2: what I do for it.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: And for those of you that buy insurance policies, think
Speaker 2: about why you buy insurance policies, right. You buy them
Speaker 2: because it gives you a sense of protection. And I
Speaker 2: love insurance policies. I will put insurance on anything. I've
Speaker 2: got insurance on my dog, right, Like if I buy
Speaker 2: an appliance and they're like, do you want insurance?
Speaker 3: Yes, I do.
Speaker 2: I want insurance on everything because it gives me the
Speaker 2: sense of false control. But it also when things do
Speaker 2: go sideways, it does help. And so I believe there's
Speaker 2: a lot of things I have to do for my
Speaker 2: insurance policy on my recovery and that I'll actually have
Speaker 2: to come has to come first, because if I'm not
Speaker 2: sober and work and being in recovery first and foremost,
Speaker 2: none of the rest of it matters. I'm not a
Speaker 2: good friend, I'm not a good daughter, I'm not a
Speaker 2: good mom. You know, I'm not a good anything. If
Speaker 2: I'm not working on constantly improving the areas that I
Speaker 2: naturally gravitate towards big an asshole are being super selfish,
Speaker 2: and so I am on a long journey. I'm definitely
Speaker 2: not there yet. I've learned a lot of things. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: there's still a lot of things I seem to have
Speaker 2: to keep repeating, which sucks. But I look if I
Speaker 2: when I look back now, if I would have said, hey,
Speaker 2: lease of twenty years ago, if you just do these
Speaker 2: actually really simple things so I like to overcomplicate things,
Speaker 2: If you just do these really simple, simple things repeatedly,
Speaker 2: you're going to get all of this. I would have
Speaker 2: never believed I would have had the life that I've
Speaker 2: had over the last two decades twenty years ago, never
Speaker 2: in a million years, And I wouldn't have dreamt big
Speaker 2: enough for myself right the.
Speaker 3: Dreams I had were eh.
Speaker 2: The dreams I got were wow, you know, And so
Speaker 2: I'm actually very excited to see what's next because in
Speaker 2: a book somewhere it does say the best is yet
Speaker 2: to come.
Speaker 1: So do you still work for a magazine, because I
Speaker 1: know you've built you'r the Sober Curator, And I mean,
Speaker 1: I want to hear, how long into sobriety did you
Speaker 1: start working making your career about sobriety.
Speaker 3: So that's such a good question. I didn't for a
Speaker 3: long time.
Speaker 2: So when I was at the magazine for a decade
Speaker 2: and then I left and went to a TV station,
Speaker 2: an NBCTV station in Seattle, and I worked on their
Speaker 2: lifestyle shows. Oh wow, okay, And because we were producing
Speaker 2: two lifestyle shows and one YouTube lifestyle show locally. So
Speaker 2: that's the same thing. That's like taking a magazine and
Speaker 2: bringing the content to life. And that was also during
Speaker 2: a time where social media was shifting into more video content,
Speaker 2: more and more and more video content. You know, we
Speaker 2: weren't quite we were just we were just starting the
Speaker 2: tiktoks of the world and the instagram reels of the world,
Speaker 2: and YouTube was becoming much more mainstream and I was
Speaker 2: it was I was there during the pandemic, and so
Speaker 2: up until twenty twenty, I did not recover out loud
Speaker 2: on the internet because I was told at the level
Speaker 2: of press, radio, and film. And that's all what I
Speaker 2: was told is press, radio and film.
Speaker 3: Right. So, but if you met me in person and
Speaker 3: it came up.
Speaker 2: In an organic way that I could be helpful, I
Speaker 2: wasn't shy about it, but I was most definitely not
Speaker 2: putting it on a hat or a shirt or LinkedIn.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: But then when the pandemic happened and we all many
Speaker 2: of us got pushed to work from home, and I
Speaker 2: was then given the gift of time. So I was
Speaker 2: no longer commuting, I was no longer going to events,
Speaker 2: I was no longer traveling. That's a lot of time
Speaker 2: now just at home. And because I'm a heart survivor,
Speaker 2: I was being extra extra cautious because in the early
Speaker 2: days of COVID, we didn't know what we didn't know right, right, right,
Speaker 2: So I was definitely the one wiping her groceries down. Yes,
Speaker 2: I was that girl. And after we had been there
Speaker 2: for a couple months and realized, oh, this is going
Speaker 2: to be much longer than the three weeks, they told
Speaker 2: us this is going to be We're going to be
Speaker 2: here for a minute.
Speaker 3: I was like, well, you have two choices. You can
Speaker 3: either finish watching the rest.
Speaker 2: Of Netflix, or you can do something with your time
Speaker 2: that when this is over and we all come back
Speaker 2: to the normal world, you feel proud of. And so
Speaker 2: that is when I decided to launch the Sober Curator.
Speaker 2: It was actually six years ago this week that I
Speaker 2: sat down at my parents' dining room table and pulled
Speaker 2: out my laptop and was like I had at this point.
Speaker 2: I I had run a city magazine, I had worked
Speaker 2: at a big TV station, but I was like the
Speaker 2: boss of the people that were building the website and
Speaker 2: doing the social media and writing the content and editing
Speaker 2: the content. I wasn't doing any of those things, right,
Speaker 2: I'm just the mouthpiece. But I was like, I should
Speaker 2: be able to figure this out. So I taught myself WordPress,
Speaker 2: and I taught myself graphic design, and I taught myself
Speaker 2: how to write the way that I talked. So then
Speaker 2: it kind of sounds like me. I mean, it does
Speaker 2: sound like me. But then I knew like with this project,
Speaker 2: because I knew what I wanted. I at that point
Speaker 2: there was a sober community online, right, their sober influencers exist.
Speaker 2: There was now a bunch of books, There was now
Speaker 2: a bunch of podcasts, Great awesome love seeing that would
Speaker 2: have used much of that in early sobriety. But as
Speaker 2: a person at that point fifteen years sober, it didn't
Speaker 2: speak to me as a woman in long term sobriety,
Speaker 2: which I think anything with two digits is long term.
Speaker 2: And so I was like, where is the space online
Speaker 2: for people in long term recovery? Because we still have problems.
Speaker 2: Things are still hard, life gets lifey. Our problems are
Speaker 2: just classier, right and.
Speaker 3: So we and we yeh.
Speaker 2: So I just I couldn't find it, and so I
Speaker 2: was like, you know what, I'm just gonna build it myself.
Speaker 2: So that's what I did. I sat down at my
Speaker 2: parents' dining room table. I mapped out a plan. I
Speaker 2: launched the site by accident before it was ready. The
Speaker 2: original name was The Sober Critic, which I thought was clever,
Speaker 2: and then I was like, oh no, Like one week
Speaker 2: in I was like, oh no, people are going to
Speaker 2: think I'm criticizing the different path of recovery, which I'm not. Right,
Speaker 2: I don't care, and so our whole thing is like,
Speaker 2: I don't care how you get sober.
Speaker 3: I don't care why you get sober.
Speaker 2: I don't even care if you don't like the word sober,
Speaker 2: but if you're not putting substances in your body on
Speaker 2: purpose so that you can show up fully present and
Speaker 2: just deal with the life, the life that can serve
Speaker 2: to you, like I want to have a conversation with you,
Speaker 2: and I want to keep you motivated. I want to
Speaker 2: keep you inspired, I want to keep you entertained. Right,
Speaker 2: And so, the Sober Curator is a lifestyle hub, and
Speaker 2: we write a rout. We write about non alcoholic drinks,
Speaker 2: all the kinds, except we don't cover the ones with
Speaker 2: THHD in them because I am trying to hold space
Speaker 2: for everyone, and I don't If you drink those, that's fine,
Speaker 2: but I need to hold space for the people that don't, too, right,
Speaker 2: so we don't. We were very intentional about what we
Speaker 2: do and don't cover on the drink side, and the
Speaker 2: drink side is not for everyone.
Speaker 3: Some people can be very triggered by that.
Speaker 2: I don't know what it's like to be in early
Speaker 2: sobriety and have all those options because they didn't exist
Speaker 2: when I was sober, but they probably would have been
Speaker 2: triggery for me. I can have them now if I'm
Speaker 2: out at a fancy dinner, I'm like, sure, I'll try
Speaker 2: your mocktail off your menu.
Speaker 3: But am I making cocktails at home that are alcohol free?
Speaker 3: I'm not. I'm drinking diet coke, you know.
Speaker 1: I remember a couple of years into the writ, No,
Speaker 1: maybe it was really early. Maybe it was in my
Speaker 1: first year. I remember going to a restaurant and ordering
Speaker 1: Tremi sue and oh yeah, having a bite of it
Speaker 1: and being like, oh, oh yeah, wow, this really tastes
Speaker 1: like alcohol. And then I had a whole thing in
Speaker 1: my head because I was like, well, you're not going
Speaker 1: to get drunk off Terremi Sue or kids couldn't order it,
Speaker 1: you know, but it still felt wrong and not awaken
Speaker 1: the beast right, And I was like, well, it's still
Speaker 1: tasting so much like alcohol that I'm very uncomfortable. So
Speaker 1: I didn't eat it. And then I felt weird about
Speaker 1: it and told my sponsor and she was like, you're fine.
Speaker 1: It's about intention, and it is about yeah, but it
Speaker 1: was a it was a kind of a little wake
Speaker 1: up call.
Speaker 2: Yeah, of like, oh, labels, Yeah, read labels and know
Speaker 2: your body right, and I have had. I did that
Speaker 2: once with a cherry Jubilee and it was just having
Speaker 2: that one bite and I was like, oh oh, and I.
Speaker 3: Knew I wasn't going to get drunk off the dessert
Speaker 3: right right right. And I probably even had like two
Speaker 3: more bites.
Speaker 2: I know I didn't finish it, but I will say
Speaker 2: it stayed in my mind for a couple of weeks,
Speaker 2: and so that's all I needed to know to that
Speaker 2: was the research I needed to know. It's not for you, right,
Speaker 2: It's not for you. It's not worth it, It's not
Speaker 2: worth the risk. We also write about we write about fashion,
Speaker 2: we write about merchandise. I love finding sober business owners
Speaker 2: that are doing their thing and maybe they're not recovering
Speaker 2: out loud, but they just they're a sober business owner.
Speaker 2: I want to I want to get to know them.
Speaker 2: I want to help promote their companies because if given
Speaker 2: the choice to do business with someone who's sober, I'm
Speaker 2: going to pick them. Every time we cover travel, we
Speaker 2: love covering travel and events. We have a very row
Speaker 2: bust events and retreat calendar, and then entertainment is really
Speaker 2: our stick. So we do a ton of book reviews,
Speaker 2: podcast reviews, movie reviews, TV show reviews, music celebrities, anything
Speaker 2: that is in pop culture that ends up in the
Speaker 2: sober zeitgeist. I'm trying to like grab a hold of.
Speaker 2: So a good example of this was at the beginning
Speaker 2: of July, the original manuscript with Bill W's handwriting went
Speaker 2: on sale at Christy's Auction in New York and it
Speaker 2: has actually been purchased by the foundation that runs the
Speaker 2: Bill and Lowis House wherever that is. That foundation has
Speaker 2: actually purchased a manuscriptisodes now it's returned back to its
Speaker 2: original owners, if you will. But that manuscript has been
Speaker 2: in other people's eccentric rich people's eccentric collections for many
Speaker 2: years and sold for many millions of dollars to the
Speaker 2: different places. So that's something that's interesting to me, right,
Speaker 2: It's interesting to me that that is still something that's
Speaker 2: been preserved and archived, and it's interested to me the
Speaker 2: hands that it's changed and the daughters. The man who
Speaker 2: owned it passed away and so the daughters were selling
Speaker 2: off a lot of his pieces of collection, but they
Speaker 2: save that one for last, because that was the one
Speaker 2: he was most important to him. I just think, you know,
Speaker 2: these are things that are interesting, and that's what we're
Speaker 2: trying to do with this number curator is to archive
Speaker 2: this stuff in real time, so we can kind.
Speaker 3: Of archive what happened in the past.
Speaker 2: But we're also trying to like, we're not going to
Speaker 2: be able to predict the future, but we're trying to
Speaker 2: see where things are going.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Now we've got the layer of AI involved, and some
Speaker 2: people are using AI in their sobriety tools. I have
Speaker 2: yet to figure out how to have AI write my
Speaker 2: fourth step, but you know that's fun.
Speaker 1: Can I ask you, like, what are a couple of
Speaker 1: movies about sobriety. I'll tell you one of mine, Yeah,
Speaker 1: one of my favorites. And I'll tell you one of
Speaker 1: my favorite books. But I am a sucker for When
Speaker 1: a Man Loves a Woman Meg Ryan, Andy Garcia. I'll
Speaker 1: tell you why I love it so much, because I
Speaker 1: feel like there have been a lot of movies about alcoholics,
Speaker 1: and you know, or people who not necessarily alcoholic, but
Speaker 1: people who are trying to be alcohol free. I kid
Speaker 1: with I'm making a joke about some people don't want it.
Speaker 1: We don't want to label ourselves. But you know, there's
Speaker 1: been movies about addiction. Let's just say a lot of them,
Speaker 1: and a lot of them have to do with And
Speaker 1: this goes back to what we were talking about at
Speaker 1: the beginning, about the getting sober and then once you
Speaker 1: get sober, that's the goal, and then everybody lives happily
Speaker 1: ever after. What I really liked about When a Man
Speaker 1: Loves a Woman was that so Meg Ryan, you know,
Speaker 1: is like a happy drunk, pretty pretty functional, except that
Speaker 1: she's she's like us where you know, she has a
Speaker 1: nice life, but she get when she drinks, she does
Speaker 1: it too much, and you know, shit happens, and so
Speaker 1: she falls through her shower. She hits her kid and
Speaker 1: then falls through her shower door and the kid thinks
Speaker 1: she's died, and it's very sad and she has to
Speaker 1: go to rehab. And then when she gets out of rehab,
Speaker 1: her husband, who's very hot Andy Garcia is really seems
Speaker 1: to be being the greatest husband ever. He's very he
Speaker 1: cares about her, he's trying to, you know, and she
Speaker 1: gets the ick from her husband because now she's sober
Speaker 1: and she's like, ough, he's so codependent. He's infantilizing me,
Speaker 1: and she wants to just hang out with her edgy,
Speaker 1: new sober friends, and she's mad and irritable. And then
Speaker 1: Andy Garcia, whose name I forgot in the movie, so
Speaker 1: we'll just call me Andy Garcia, is like, I like,
Speaker 1: this is not okay, Like I would like to have
Speaker 1: my wife not tell me her skin crawls when I
Speaker 1: touch her, basically.
Speaker 4: And then they're gonna get a divorce. They're going to
Speaker 4: get separated. And I was like, this is the dealing
Speaker 4: with like.
Speaker 1: Real shit, Like it's not easy, the aftermath of getting sober,
Speaker 1: like some stuff changes, it's hard, and that's the part
Speaker 1: that's I think the some of the important story to
Speaker 1: tell is how do you get through that and how
Speaker 1: do you lean on your friends but also confront some
Speaker 1: of your own issues. And I don't know, I thought
Speaker 1: it was a really good movie.
Speaker 3: It's a really good movie. It's a classic for a
Speaker 3: reason for sure.
Speaker 2: And unfortunately, the way the alcohol is portrayed in movies
Speaker 2: and TV shows is, you know, we either see the
Speaker 2: traditional rock bottom in the first thirty days, but then
Speaker 2: we never know what happens to them after that. I
Speaker 2: also so at the Sobercurator. We have a private membership
Speaker 2: if you will. All the content on the Sober Curator
Speaker 2: is free, got almost three thousand pieces of content.
Speaker 3: Our newsletter is free.
Speaker 2: But earlier this year we started backstage with the Sober Curator,
Speaker 2: which is it is a paid membership, but think of
Speaker 2: it as like masterclass but interactive, and a podcast but interactive.
Speaker 2: You come and you are learning something and oh, by
Speaker 2: the way, everybody in the room happens to be sober
Speaker 2: or they're a sober ally right. And so we recently
Speaker 2: had Ted Mandel from Notre Dame is a professor at
Speaker 2: Notre Dame and he teaches a class call a course
Speaker 2: called Drunk on Film where he exposes the way that
Speaker 2: Hollywood portray's alcohol in a way that it sets it
Speaker 2: up to be not what it really is, you know,
Speaker 2: glamorous and without consequence and whatever.
Speaker 3: And so he just came and.
Speaker 2: Took us through like a one hour version of his course,
Speaker 2: and I have to tell you, I got so mad
Speaker 2: watching it because I can see now the movies that
Speaker 2: I watched in the nineties and the two thousands why
Speaker 2: I was so influenced to drink the way that I did.
Speaker 2: But then was baffled so that I had these consequences,
Speaker 2: but the characters in the films didn't, you know, And
Speaker 2: so that was a fascinating thing. What I'm hoping as
Speaker 2: we're archiving all these reviews on is it a good
Speaker 2: job of showing addiction? Is it too stereotypical? Like I
Speaker 2: want to see more characters in films and movies that
Speaker 2: have five years sober, ten years sober, fifteen years sober,
Speaker 2: and it's part of the storyline, it doesn't have to
Speaker 2: be the only part. And we're seeing that. So like
Speaker 2: The Lincoln Lawyer, if you've watched that series, I think
Speaker 2: it's on Netflix. He's a detective. No, he's an attorney,
Speaker 2: excuse me, but he does a lot of detective work
Speaker 2: for his cases. He's sober, and so once in a
Speaker 2: while you'll hear him say something that is a language
Speaker 2: that those of us that hang out in church basements
Speaker 2: will pick up on. There was also a show that
Speaker 2: came out. It had two seasons I believe, called Single
Speaker 2: Drunk Female and Yes. The main character it was about
Speaker 2: she was twenty seven. She lost her job because of
Speaker 2: her drinking, and so the show follows her in the
Speaker 2: first one year of her sobriety, and she goes to
Speaker 2: twelve step rooms and her mom is super codependant and
Speaker 2: her mom was Ali sheety. Her aunt is Molly Ringwald.
Speaker 2: Like it's great, you know, but what the characters that
Speaker 2: I actually identified with in that show were her sponsors.
Speaker 2: In season one, her sponsor had ten years right. In
Speaker 2: season two, her sponsor was actually played by Busy Phillips,
Speaker 2: and she was twenty years sober, but she was a kleptomaniac,
Speaker 2: you know. And so it was just like, that's what
Speaker 2: I want to see because I've evolved in my recovery
Speaker 2: journey and now I want the movies and the TV shows.
Speaker 2: I want them to catch up. And so but in
Speaker 2: order to have that happen, we have to be talking
Speaker 2: about it, I think. And so that's what we look
Speaker 2: for when we're looking for movies. I think my favorite,
Speaker 2: though if I had to say my favorite of all time,
Speaker 2: I could narrow it down to two. I'm always going
Speaker 2: to vote twenty eight Days with Sander Bullet because to me,
Speaker 2: that's a classic. I even during the pandemic, made a
Speaker 2: Peep's diary of it. I thought it was very clever
Speaker 2: and then and that one's just obviously she's drunk. She
Speaker 2: goes to rehab for twenty eight days. That's the storyline,
Speaker 2: she gets sober. We don't know what happens though afterwards.
Speaker 2: So I would love to see twenty eight days later
Speaker 2: two or something and now it's like her daughter has
Speaker 2: to go to rehab.
Speaker 3: I think that would be a really great sequel.
Speaker 2: I've also loved Flight with Denzel Washington because there's a
Speaker 2: few and Denzel Washington is ten years sober irl, and
Speaker 2: so I do think if you pay attention to celebrities, actors,
Speaker 2: actresses that are truly in addiction it have been through
Speaker 2: addiction and are now sober, and you see them play
Speaker 2: a character with addiction, they will play it better than
Speaker 2: anybody ever can because they're drawing on lived experience. Jamie
Speaker 2: Lee Curtis is another example. She plays an alcoholic mom
Speaker 2: in The Bear and there's an episode I think it's
Speaker 2: like season three years four, you know, the one where
Speaker 2: she makes.
Speaker 4: Some mens yeah, uh huh yeah.
Speaker 2: Like there's that's she's drawing from lived experience. That is
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, And she is an amazing actor. She's won awards,
Speaker 2: but like, I don't believe in even even the best
Speaker 2: actor on earth. If they don't have the lived experience,
Speaker 2: they're not going to be able to do it the
Speaker 2: same way. This is the hill I'm willing to die
Speaker 2: on because I just think it makes a difference, right,
Speaker 2: And so that's the kind of stuff that we love
Speaker 2: stories like we learned from stories, and so that's why
Speaker 2: I think it's very important that the stories start to evolve,
Speaker 2: because I believe that recovery is evolving.
Speaker 1: Here's a book that I love that I read years
Speaker 1: before I got sober, and I'm sure you love this
Speaker 1: book too, But Drinking a love Story.
Speaker 3: It's a Caroline Nap Journal Library. You must, yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, I've read that book probably four or five times,
Speaker 1: and you know, over the course of many many years.
Speaker 1: I'm saying because, like I said, I read it before
Speaker 1: I ever got sober. But wow, what a great book.
Speaker 1: Not a perfect person no spoiler alert, she dies.
Speaker 4: So sad.
Speaker 1: Then I read a book by her best friend whose
Speaker 1: name is Gail. Now I can't remember the book, but
Speaker 1: it's about their friendship, which was a really beautiful book
Speaker 1: that I liked very much.
Speaker 4: So what do you think?
Speaker 1: I mean, Like I said, before I hit record, you
Speaker 1: were saying that you do you feel because I think
Speaker 1: that sobriety has become much more trendy and many people
Speaker 1: talking about it, which I appreciate. I think it's been normalized.
Speaker 1: So when I got sober seventeen years ago, it was
Speaker 1: still there was a lot of shame about especially for
Speaker 1: me because I was a mom. So I don't know
Speaker 1: if you know this book. So I had written a
Speaker 1: book called Sippy Cups or Not for Chardonnay, which was
Speaker 1: a huge book, and I talked a lot about drinking
Speaker 1: in the book.
Speaker 4: This was not a book written sober.
Speaker 1: This was a book written by an alcoholic who was
Speaker 1: trying to justify my drinking as being hilarious and a lifestyle.
Speaker 1: You know, I did not know better. I started writing
Speaker 1: the book when my daughter was only a few months old,
Speaker 1: and I was an edgy, you know, comedian who was like,
Speaker 1: I don't have to lose my personality.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 1: I wasn't drinking as much as I probably portrayed in
Speaker 1: the book. But the point is when I got sober
Speaker 1: many years later, it became news because here's this person
Speaker 1: who had written all about how great drinking as a
Speaker 1: mom is and defending drinking and then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: I wasn't drinking, so the New York Times was interested.
Speaker 1: Way too many people were interested, and I was very
Speaker 1: newly sober. So by the time I was like six
Speaker 1: months sober, I was doing interview.
Speaker 4: I was very certain that I was done drinking.
Speaker 1: I like you had the gift of desperation and was done.
Speaker 1: So it wasn't even though I was still for the
Speaker 1: first year like, I don't know if I'm a diagnosable
Speaker 1: like alcoholic, like what is like? I still feel like
Speaker 1: my drinking was different than other people's. I was doing
Speaker 1: that for like the first year until I decided a
Speaker 1: year in doesn't really matter. I don't want to drink,
Speaker 1: and I don't want to drink more than I want
Speaker 1: to go back to drinking, so who cares. I'll call
Speaker 1: it alcoholic. I guess I'm an Alcohol'll call it that,
Speaker 1: you know. And then I got used to that, and
Speaker 1: it's totally fine with me now. And I appreciate the
Speaker 1: word because I am a black and white thinker and
Speaker 1: I need to think of myself as I need to
Speaker 1: be somebody who's like, I can't drink not well, I
Speaker 1: don't know, I might not be an alcoholic.
Speaker 4: Maybe I'm just alcohol free.
Speaker 1: It's like, well, that's fine, But that, to me, that
Speaker 1: implies that there's a chance that I might be able
Speaker 1: to sneak in. Once I figured this all out and
Speaker 1: I've done alcohol free for a while, I could reintroduce
Speaker 1: alcohol and be different. And I just know I reached
Speaker 1: a point where I was like, no, I'm just never
Speaker 1: going to drink again. But my point that I was
Speaker 1: going to make is that for a long time, it
Speaker 1: was very difficult to do these like TV appearances, and
Speaker 1: because I would get a lot of like shitty comments online,
Speaker 1: or you know, when an article about me came out
Speaker 1: in the New York Times, all the comments were like
Speaker 1: she should have her kids taken away. And I feel
Speaker 1: like we've made a lot of progress in being able
Speaker 1: to share stories of the normalcy of just being a
Speaker 1: sober person in the world and talking about some of
Speaker 1: the things that you used to only hear in meetings.
Speaker 1: I think have become accessible to regular people.
Speaker 4: Being able to listen to.
Speaker 1: A podcast like this and hearing what people's lives were
Speaker 1: really like and hearing you talk about being a single
Speaker 1: mom and drinking and having your son put gumballs in
Speaker 1: your wine. That used to be the kind of thing
Speaker 1: that could just fill people with shame and not want
Speaker 1: to ever share.
Speaker 4: Something like that.
Speaker 1: And I think that now it's become not cool, I
Speaker 1: don't want to say that, but normalized, so that people
Speaker 1: who maybe struggle but are like I don't know if
Speaker 1: I'm I don't know if I want to do all that,
Speaker 1: like get sober, but they can start to hear themselves,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, without having to go to
Speaker 1: rehab or make this giant leap into going to twelve
Speaker 1: step meetings. If they don't think that's for them, don't
Speaker 1: you think that this is kind of a very good
Speaker 1: thing that I do grow many many more stories about
Speaker 1: people being sober.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And as we rap, like, I will just say,
Speaker 2: like I believe the type rises all boats and there's
Speaker 2: a path for everyone.
Speaker 3: Some are more well traveled than others.
Speaker 2: But I think that you said something earlier on that
Speaker 2: is the key point of all of it.
Speaker 3: It's your intention and what are your intentions?
Speaker 2: And then there is a medical side of it, like
Speaker 2: some of us need medical help, right because in some
Speaker 2: cases quitting cold Turkey can be very dangerous. So uh,
Speaker 2: but I think that people are having conversations about it,
Speaker 2: and people are rethinking drinking in the workplace. I've done
Speaker 2: a lot of speaking around that, especially for people managers,
Speaker 2: like if you're going to do team building culture building
Speaker 2: activities and alcohol is involved, that's fine, but don't make
Speaker 2: it the only activity and make sure there are other options, right,
Speaker 2: And I'm not talking water and coffee and diet coke,
Speaker 2: although I will drink a dit coke every time. Options
Speaker 2: you know, they need to also have a pretty glass,
Speaker 2: you know, don't make them feel like they're sitting at
Speaker 2: the kids table.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I like that.
Speaker 1: I think that's it's important work, and I think that
Speaker 1: being willing I'm just because I'm interested in the fact
Speaker 1: that you started out being like I sh shouldn't be
Speaker 1: public about this because anonymity for me, I don't.
Speaker 4: I don't believe.
Speaker 1: I don't believe in that, and kind of didn't from
Speaker 1: the beginning. Even though I got a lot of pushback
Speaker 1: when I was on TV, I wasn't. I certainly wasn't
Speaker 1: saying anything about how I did it.
Speaker 4: But I don't. I don't see anything wrong.
Speaker 1: I see everything right in being willing to share your
Speaker 1: story in public because that's the only thing that makes
Speaker 1: it accessible to other people. They have to see that
Speaker 1: alcoholism isn't just you know, people drinking, you know, out
Speaker 1: of a brown paper bag under a bridge somewhere. That
Speaker 1: alcoholism is tons of people that you know that maybe
Speaker 1: don't tell you that they're sober, but that if you
Speaker 1: were at a party with them and they were. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, like so many of our friends.
Speaker 1: I mean, you and I are sober, so we probably
Speaker 1: talk about it.
Speaker 4: We're more open about it. And I think.
Speaker 1: That somehow I meet a lot of people that don't drink.
Speaker 3: Well, here's the thing, because.
Speaker 4: I'll say, everybody's talking about it's over.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we think everybody's talking about it because we're talking
Speaker 2: about it, and our algorithm is talking about it. But
Speaker 2: people are not talking about it, not as much as
Speaker 2: we think they are. And so that's why I think
Speaker 2: we have to keep talking about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think it's easy to make that assumption, but then
Speaker 2: you have to remember that your algorithm caters to everything
Speaker 2: you put out and everything you consume, So it's just
Speaker 2: going to give you more of that. It's going to
Speaker 2: keep reinforcing. That's what the conversation is but it's but
Speaker 2: it's it's not it's your algorithm. And so I do
Speaker 2: think more people are talking about it than that we're
Speaker 2: ten years ago. But I still think there's a big,
Speaker 2: big hill to climb.
Speaker 1: Well, the reason that I started this podcast is because
Speaker 1: there are there are other podcasts, but they are not
Speaker 1: funny or you know, they're they're a little more earnest.
Speaker 1: And when on my other podcasts, which is called for
Speaker 1: crying out loud, I talked every time I talked about
Speaker 1: being sober or sobriety. That's when I got the most
Speaker 1: reactions people messaging me, people saying like, oh, it really
Speaker 1: helped me when you're super honest about, you know, being
Speaker 1: sober and you're honest about what it was like before,
Speaker 1: And that made me go, well, maybe there is a
Speaker 1: space for just straight up like let's tell our stories.
Speaker 1: And so I think it's been helpful to people to
Speaker 1: have that without lecturing, you know, without saying there's only
Speaker 1: one way to do it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, Yeah, yeah, all.
Speaker 1: Right, well so will you find so we go to
Speaker 1: the sober Curator Tellercurator, oh shit, yeap, the sober Curator
Speaker 1: dot com.
Speaker 3: We have a newsletter called the Sober Sip.
Speaker 2: We sent it out on Mondays and Wednesdays and it
Speaker 2: gives you a highlight of anything we've published in the
Speaker 2: last week to keep it easy for you to make
Speaker 2: sure you don't have any fomo and miss out on something.
Speaker 2: We're on also social media platforms because we have to be.
Speaker 2: Most of my traffic comes through search or comes through
Speaker 2: the l MS, so but we are on social media
Speaker 2: because if you're not there, people think it's weird, but
Speaker 2: it's not really where our audience comes from. But we
Speaker 2: do distribute all of our content through those channels. And
Speaker 2: then yes, we have a group podcast. Season two just started.
Speaker 2: We're on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, iHeart all the places, but
Speaker 2: come hang out with us.
Speaker 3: We're up to some fun things.
Speaker 1: Okay, everybody. You'll find all the links in the description
Speaker 1: of the episode. I would just thank you so much, Elise.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's been a great episode. It's been great
Speaker 1: talking to you.
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me.
Speaker 4: It's done in lind