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Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's me Stephanie Wilder Tailor. This is Drunkish

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the podcast. But you knew that the goal of this

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podcast is to have fun conversations about sobriety without preaching.

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Just keep it real and please please help me grow

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and go rate and review if you have one minute.

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I'm really excited about today's episode. I have Eleise Bryson.

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She's got twenty years sober. She's the founder of the

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Sober Curator, which is a lifestyle website all about sobriety.

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They have stories, poetry, they talk about non alcoholic drink options,

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they recommend quit lit books, and so much more. So

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go check them out. We will get into all of

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this and how she founded this website in the episode.

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So here's a lease, and we are here with a lease.

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Thank you so much for coming on the show with

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short notice, and uh this is this is airing tomorrow,

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so I'm excited.

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Speaker 2: Well that is short notice. Thank you for having me, Stephanie.

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I'm thrilled to be here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I don't do a lot of it's not a lot

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of bells and whistles on this podcast.

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Speaker 4: I it's it's you pretty real. Yeah, live to you know,

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live to tape, but edit.

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Speaker 1: I let your story flow and let unless you say

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some stuff that later.

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Speaker 4: You're like, uh oh that has happened, said too much?

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Speaker 3: That has happened. I unfortunately learned the hard way.

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Speaker 2: One time I shared some stuff that my mom did

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not know about me, and it was okay, like I

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she shouldn't she should have known that about me, but

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she should not have heard it from a podcast versus

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me just telling her.

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Speaker 3: So I learned that once.

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Speaker 2: And then one time I shared some things about the

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father of my child and like a day later, I

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had to call the podcast or be like, I'm sorry,

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you have to take that out, like or I'm going

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to have to make amends and I don't want to

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do that, so can we just take it out?

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Speaker 3: So I have learned. I have learned.

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Speaker 1: Yes, my friend and I wanted to come out with

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a t shirt line that was something like I don't

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have room for you on my tent step like you know, little.

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Speaker 3: That's good, that's good.

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Speaker 4: The only people you know if you know, you know.

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Speaker 3: I love inside.

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Speaker 2: I love inside bench bench bench talk or inside talk,

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whatever it is.

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Speaker 3: I love that I've been here for that all day long.

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Speaker 1: One time I went to this meeting, and I called

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my sponsor afterwards and I was so mad, and I said,

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all these I shared at this I shared at this meeting,

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and all these people were like, I said, I don't

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just don't know if I'm an alcoholic. I'm just not sure,

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Like I mean, I'm going to like I'm I'm I'm

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staying sober, but I just don't know if I want

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that label. And I said, all these people shared the well,

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I know I'm an alcoholic, and I was I was like,

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and they were directing that at me, they were judging me,

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and I was like, I think I need to do

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a ten step on the on the whole meeting.

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Speaker 3: The whole room, the whole room is on the list tonight, folks.

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Speaker 4: My sponsor said, or you just let it go.

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Speaker 3: I was like, oh, there's also that. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Also, that would be a lot less work. So tell

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me about yourself. You we we were just talking before

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I hit record. You're twenty years sober.

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Speaker 2: Just turned twenty yeah, May first to twenty twenty six first, Yeah,

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because I'm telling you, cool kids get sober in May.

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Speaker 3: Also in the other months, but there's just May is

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a big month.

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Speaker 2: Something must have happened or happens every May, because I

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just noticed. You notice after enough decades, right when you're

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in places at celebrate anniversary, birthdays, whatever you want to.

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Speaker 3: Call it, Like some months have a lot more than others.

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Speaker 2: Like January is another really big month, and that one's

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kind of obvious as to why.

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Speaker 3: But I've just noticed that May is a big month.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's kind of hacked to get sober

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in January.

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Speaker 4: So I want it to be different, you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I will say.

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Speaker 2: So my date is May first, and that was before

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May the fourth, be with you, and I'm a star

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wars nerd so I'm a little like I contemplated one year.

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I was like a little relapse, just a little three

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day or like, so I could get the date that

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I want.

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Speaker 3: And then my sponsor at the time, she's.

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Speaker 2: Like, was like, or you could just change your date,

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like there's not like a date police, And I was.

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Speaker 3: Like, oh, but also but it wasn't that day.

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Speaker 2: But I mean probably I had enough in my system

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it could have been that day, like you know, but anyway,

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I stuck with the OG date. But I do think

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if I if I ever have to do it again,

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I'm gonna be thoughtful about the date because you use

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it so frequently, so it's an important day, like you know,

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you know.

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Speaker 1: When I first got sober. The truth is, I'm admitting

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this to you for the first time. I don't know

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if I've said this ever. The truth was that May

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twenty second was the last time I got drunk.

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Speaker 4: May twenty third actually my sobriety date.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but somehow in my head at the beginning, because

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it makes sense, I was like, Okay, May twenty second,

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that's my last. Then I finished drinking, and I just

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never really it just never occurred to me for a

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long for a couple of years, and then I was like,

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you know, if you really think about it, I wasn't

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sober on May twenty second.

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Speaker 4: I was sober on May twenty third. But then I

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was like, I was sort of it. That was my birthday.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to change it.

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Speaker 2: And I already got my birthday tattooed on my body,

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so like there's kind of you know, I'm committed at

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this point. And somebody asked me once what happens if

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you do relapse, and I was like, you know, here's

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the thing. I would just add the new date and

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maybe put a thin line through the old date, because

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me relapsing doesn't mean the old date didn't matter. It

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mattered in a big, big, big, big big way, right,

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So it doesn't. So that's the other thing about dates

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is they can be important. You can lose them, and

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they don't lose their importance because they're still part of

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the journey, part of the process. And I say this

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because one of my best friend's sons just got sober

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and wait for it, his day is May the fourth,

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and I was like, dude, I don't want to and

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that means he's like not even sixty days sober at

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this point, right, or just barely sixty days. And I

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was like, dude, I don't want to put the pressure on,

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but like, you have picked the best date and you

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don't even know it. So just like, if you relapse,

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I'm still gonna love you, I'm still gonna support you,

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but I will probably have a resentment that you had

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the best sober day of the year and you threw

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it away.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I hope that helps him.

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Speaker 3: I hope so too. Sure, right, the pressure, So.

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Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about your story, like what

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was going on more than twenty years ago, more.

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Speaker 2: Than twenty years ago, so more than twenty years ago,

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like twenty and a half years ago. I woke up,

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I was I had I had gotten I woke up

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I live in this I grew up in a small

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town between Seattle and Portland, and I had moved back

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there when I first had my son. Young single mom,

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I got sober, I got not sober. I definitely did

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not get sober at twenty. I got pregnant at twenty,

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so young single mom. I had gone to college, lasted

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in Seattle for like two years, and I was back

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home immediately pregnant and trying to figure out my life.

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Speaker 3: And then I fell into.

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Speaker 2: A job in advertising at the local newspaper. And I'm

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really good at it. I'm really good at talking. I'm

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really good at talking people into things. I'm really good

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like listening to what people need and then like, here's

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the solution, and a salesperson that's over drinks. So it

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was literally the perfect job for me until it wasn't right.

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And so I woke up one day and I had

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burned most of the bridges in this very small town,

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and I was like, I got to get out of here.

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And my kid's dad and his stepmom lived like north

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of Seattle. So I was like, I'm gonna move to Seattle.

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I'm gonna work for the Seattle Times, and I'll be

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closer to his dad, and I'm just going to start

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my life over.

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Speaker 3: Because you know, those of us that deal with deep.

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Speaker 2: Addictions, like we love the concept of a clean slate

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and a do over, like right, We're obsessed with it.

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Speaker 4: We have a name for it. We call it a geographic.

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Speaker 3: Do call it a geographic?

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Speaker 2: And so literally from the time I woke up that

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morning and was like, I got to get out of

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here because I had I had stirred up some major drama, right,

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some major drama, and I.

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Speaker 3: Was like, I got to get out of here.

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Speaker 2: Thirty days later, like to the day I was in Seattle,

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I had the job at the Seattle Times, and I

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was starting over, right, And it was then in that

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six month window that literally all emotional hell broke loose.

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So I had had a lot of consequences from my

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drinking over my career I started around sixteen, A lot

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of consequences, A lot of shady things happened. I did

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a lot of shady things, right, because when you put

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your plate yourself in shady places with shady people, like

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shady things will happen. But this six month, like the

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last six months of my drinking career, nothing really shady

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significant happened, other than because I had removed myself from

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one environment and put myself in a new environment where

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I didn't know very many people. My drinking at home

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really escalated, like really escalated, because up until that point,

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I was just the good time girl, right like I'll

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go out any night of the week and we'll have

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a great time, and I'm a lot of fun until

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I'm not kind of girl. Right Well, now I'm I

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got my son, I don't really know anybody, so.

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Speaker 3: I'm drinking at home alone a lot.

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Speaker 2: And that's where and I don't know, like I felt

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it in my body, something shifted.

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Speaker 3: I'd always been a blackout drinker.

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Speaker 2: That was not new, And I had always been when

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I start drinking, I can't stop.

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Speaker 3: That was not new.

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Speaker 2: But there was something else that shifted that I can't

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I've never been able to like really like label properly.

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It was I like I really lost control and and

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then it was like I was I was breaking every

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rule I had, Like I don't drink before eight pm,

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or I don't drink on Tuesdays.

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Speaker 3: That's not true. Daco Tuesday. I always drink on Taco.

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Speaker 2: Tuesday Market, Like you know, I like it, just things

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like like I know why, I really no longer had

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a handle on it. And the I had started carpooling

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with this woman I was working at the Seattle time.

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Started carpooling with this woman. She was sober and if

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we car pulled together. She also lived in the area

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that I did, and it was a pretty healthy commute

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into the city, like an hour each way, and we

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would get free parking, and parking was expensive then. It's

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expensive now, but it was expensive then, and I wanted

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to save as much money as I.

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Speaker 3: Could so I could buy my alcohol and the other

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things I use with that.

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Speaker 2: And so here I am stuck in the car with

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a sober woman like two hours a day, five days

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a week.

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Speaker 3: And I didn't and didn't.

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Speaker 2: She's not somebody at first I would have like chosen

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to hang out with. But you spend that much time

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with someone, you get to know them, or at least

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she got to know me. Because I was monop monopolizing

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the conversation as I'm doing right now. But I just

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started telling her all of my junk right and she

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would just sit there and listen to it, and she'd

238
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be like, yeah, I know what that's like. I very similar.

239
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If you ever want to know what I did, I'm

240
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happy to like share it with you.

241
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Speaker 3: I'm happy to take you to a meeting.

242
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Speaker 2: And I was like, no, thanks, Like I don't even

243
00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:52,200
really like you, so I don't want what you have,

244
00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,279
but just keep listening to my stuff.

245
00:11:54,399 --> 00:11:56,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, boring, just keep listening to my stuff.

246
00:11:56,559 --> 00:12:01,000
Speaker 2: Well, time march on and that inevitable weekend came and

247
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I called my sister and I was like, I really

248
00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:04,080
can't do this anymore.

249
00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:06,240
Speaker 3: This is really getting out of control. Like I could

250
00:12:06,279 --> 00:12:07,159
see the end.

251
00:12:07,759 --> 00:12:10,519
Speaker 2: I could see I hadn't lost anything. I also had

252
00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:14,600
not gained anything. I think that's doesn't get talked about enough.

253
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I think we talk a lot about what we lose,

254
00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:19,279
but like all the things I didn't gain because I

255
00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:22,720
couldn't because I was either drunk or hungover. Right, but

256
00:12:22,919 --> 00:12:26,000
I could see that I was going to lose my house,

257
00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,440
or lose my driver's license because I was definitely a

258
00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:31,240
drunk driver, or lose my job or lose custody of

259
00:12:31,279 --> 00:12:33,720
my kid. Like it was like it was all about

260
00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:36,360
to tip and I somehow had this foresight like it

261
00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:40,159
was going to go down badly. And I called my sister,

262
00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:43,919
who was a chaplain at the time. She's a therapist

263
00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:47,120
now specializing in drug and alcohol addiction. I like to

264
00:12:47,159 --> 00:12:49,879
take credit for her career. She just never appreciates that.

265
00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,240
So I think I really helped her find her way.

266
00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,840
And she had me call one of those eight hundred

267
00:12:55,919 --> 00:12:58,879
hotline numbers, which was in Seattle. It was inner group,

268
00:12:59,639 --> 00:13:01,799
and you know, there was some really happy person on

269
00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:03,919
the other side of the phone telling me to dump

270
00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,360
out my alcohol. And I was like, you're crazy. I'm

271
00:13:06,399 --> 00:13:07,639
not going to dump it out. I'll give it to

272
00:13:07,639 --> 00:13:10,080
one of my friends. But like that's like I don't

273
00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:13,039
even recycle, but I'm not doing that. Like that's crazy.

274
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And so I called my sister back and I was like,

275
00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:17,600
that didn't really work.

276
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:19,480
Speaker 3: You know, she wants me to jump out the alcohol.

277
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I'm not doing that.

278
00:13:20,159 --> 00:13:21,840
Speaker 2: And she's like, why don't you call the carpool lady

279
00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:25,200
And I was like, uh, carpool lady.

280
00:13:25,799 --> 00:13:26,279
Speaker 3: So I did.

281
00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:28,679
Speaker 2: I called the carpool lady and Carpoolady took me to

282
00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,679
my first meeting, which I of course hated.

283
00:13:32,159 --> 00:13:34,159
Speaker 3: To be clear, it was an Alano club.

284
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Speaker 4: I hated it.

285
00:13:36,159 --> 00:13:38,919
Speaker 2: I hated it so much so then I made the

286
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:42,200
very quick decision of that's not for me. That's not

287
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:44,559
going to work, that doesn't work, it's not for me, right,

288
00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:47,440
And so then that set me off on my little

289
00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:51,399
adventure of interviewing going to different therapists. I went to

290
00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,519
a couple of treatment centers and did like an intake form,

291
00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:58,480
and weird, all of them were suggesting that I like

292
00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:01,039
Sandra Bullock twenty eight Days.

293
00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,200
Speaker 3: And I was like, listen, I'm a single mom.

294
00:14:03,279 --> 00:14:05,559
Speaker 2: I have a career. I don't have time for that.

295
00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,120
Like there has to be like is there a pill

296
00:14:08,399 --> 00:14:10,159
or something you can give me? I love pills, Like

297
00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,759
there's got to be like a pill, you know. And

298
00:14:12,759 --> 00:14:17,080
they're like, no, no, have you tried? Have you tried

299
00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,919
a twelve step room? And I was like, up, totally

300
00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:24,039
did it and not for me? Right? And and she

301
00:14:24,279 --> 00:14:25,840
then prodded, she was like, can you tell me a

302
00:14:25,879 --> 00:14:28,480
little bit more why? And so as she prodded, I

303
00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:32,639
gave my answers and she's like, well, there is there

304
00:14:32,799 --> 00:14:39,600
is a there is a meeting here at the treatment

305
00:14:39,639 --> 00:14:41,759
center for women only on Tuesday night.

306
00:14:42,279 --> 00:14:43,559
Speaker 4: I was I knew, I was.

307
00:14:43,799 --> 00:14:45,360
Speaker 1: I knew they were going to say, have you tried

308
00:14:45,399 --> 00:14:46,440
a women's only meeting?

309
00:14:46,559 --> 00:14:46,639
Speaker 2: Uh?

310
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:47,159
Speaker 3: Huh?

311
00:14:47,159 --> 00:14:50,960
Speaker 2: And because women only, no, thanks, like men only sign

312
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,440
me up, you know, but like uh so I was

313
00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,000
like uh, And she's like, listen, I think if you

314
00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:56,840
tried this one.

315
00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:00,080
Speaker 3: It's mostly for inpatient, which we still really.

316
00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:03,039
Speaker 2: Commend you do, but the people that come through the

317
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:06,039
program and then come back like from outside, you could

318
00:15:06,039 --> 00:15:07,960
come to it. And I was like, I'll keep that

319
00:15:08,039 --> 00:15:10,600
in mind. And then she told me they had an

320
00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:12,679
outpatient program, and I was like, I can do that.

321
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:14,159
Speaker 3: I'm gonna skip over in patient.

322
00:15:14,159 --> 00:15:16,200
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go straight to outpatient because I'm just so

323
00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:20,200
advanced at everything in life. And I'm gonna wait till

324
00:15:20,279 --> 00:15:22,519
summer break and my son will go stay with my

325
00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,159
parents and then I will work during the day, I

326
00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,440
will outpatient at night. I will see my son on

327
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,960
the weekends. I Am going to project manage my rock bottom,

328
00:15:31,159 --> 00:15:34,639
right And they were like, this doesn't this is not

329
00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:36,960
a good idea, but okay, if this is the only

330
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,120
and at this point. It was like we were like

331
00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,000
in April, right, and so she was like, well, what

332
00:15:42,039 --> 00:15:45,080
are you gonna do between now and then to not drink?

333
00:15:45,559 --> 00:15:48,399
And I was just like, I'm gonna drink. What are

334
00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,200
you talking about? Like, I don't have to not drink

335
00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:56,600
for another like thirty days, Calm down, right, And that's

336
00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:58,519
what she was like, again, the meeting will be here,

337
00:15:58,759 --> 00:16:02,399
and I'm like I'll sure, okay. Well, then some time

338
00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,440
went by, and then inevitably I had one of those

339
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,919
weekends of so much shame, guilt and shame.

340
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:11,080
Speaker 3: And you know, I was just telling this story the

341
00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:12,279
other day of my last drink.

342
00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:14,919
Speaker 2: If I had known that my last drink was going

343
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:16,720
to be my last drink, I would have done a

344
00:16:16,759 --> 00:16:20,679
much better job, because my last drink is sad and pathetic.

345
00:16:20,799 --> 00:16:23,840
It was a Sunday. I had been bend shrinking all

346
00:16:23,879 --> 00:16:28,240
weekend and I woke up very hungover on the couch

347
00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:31,399
and my son was watching SpongeBob. I can still see

348
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,879
the room very clearly. We had one of those really big, old,

349
00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,000
the old school big screen TVs that were like just

350
00:16:38,039 --> 00:16:40,559
as wide deep as they were wide, you know the

351
00:16:40,559 --> 00:16:41,399
one I'm talking about.

352
00:16:41,519 --> 00:16:44,840
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, And how old was your son at this time?

353
00:16:44,919 --> 00:16:46,279
Speaker 3: It was nine at the time.

354
00:16:46,759 --> 00:16:50,600
Speaker 2: Okay, it's almost thirty now, and I was looking around

355
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:53,000
immediately I woke up and I needed a drink right

356
00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:55,320
And the only thing that was left over was this

357
00:16:55,639 --> 00:16:59,080
warm bottle of opened wine or champagne. It was light

358
00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,639
in color, so I don't remember now, and he had

359
00:17:01,639 --> 00:17:04,240
the night before he had started filling it with gumballs,

360
00:17:04,279 --> 00:17:08,319
trying to get me to stop drinking it. That was

361
00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:13,279
my last drink is warm unopened or warm wine that

362
00:17:13,319 --> 00:17:15,240
had been opened overnight.

363
00:17:14,799 --> 00:17:19,079
Speaker 3: Filled with gumballs. Like that's sad, you know, it's sad.

364
00:17:19,759 --> 00:17:23,079
Speaker 2: And so so I ended up going to one of

365
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:26,599
those meetings on that Tuesday night, and what do you know,

366
00:17:27,759 --> 00:17:30,880
I heard my story over and over and over and

367
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,599
over and over, like every single woman had the like

368
00:17:33,839 --> 00:17:36,000
exact details of my story.

369
00:17:36,319 --> 00:17:38,160
Speaker 3: Not there were no like even variants.

370
00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:41,000
Speaker 2: There was no wiggle room for me to be like, no,

371
00:17:41,319 --> 00:17:42,680
you're not like them I had.

372
00:17:42,799 --> 00:17:47,119
Speaker 3: I just really confronted the reality of, oh, you are

373
00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:48,000
an alcoholic.

374
00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:50,240
Speaker 2: I'm very comfortable with that word. Some people aren't, and

375
00:17:50,279 --> 00:17:52,279
it's okay if you're not, I am. I am too,

376
00:17:52,799 --> 00:17:54,880
But it takes like I wasn't.

377
00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:58,160
Speaker 3: Then, right, I wasn't then, And I was like, you are.

378
00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:00,880
Speaker 2: And and the thing is I had said it before,

379
00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:03,079
but i'd said it like a badge of honor, as

380
00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,359
like a joke, like yeah, I'm a professional drinker. Okay,

381
00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:08,839
I never got paid to drink, to be clear. And

382
00:18:09,039 --> 00:18:11,119
I was so overwhelmed. And I have told this story

383
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:13,720
many times before too, but I ran out of that meeting.

384
00:18:13,759 --> 00:18:14,599
Speaker 3: I got in my car.

385
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,200
Speaker 2: I didn't stay to hold hands, I didn't stay to

386
00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:20,759
put my chair away. I ran because I confronting reality

387
00:18:20,799 --> 00:18:23,640
in public brings on emotions.

388
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:24,720
Speaker 3: Which I didn't know what to do with, and I

389
00:18:24,839 --> 00:18:25,440
needed out.

390
00:18:25,559 --> 00:18:27,839
Speaker 2: Like if one person had like looked at me funny

391
00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,200
or tried to hug me, I would have completely lost

392
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,680
my shit. And I ran to the car, and I

393
00:18:32,759 --> 00:18:35,799
was so mad at God. I grew up in a

394
00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:38,400
Christian home. Both my grandfathers were pastors. I went to

395
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:41,039
a private Christian school where my mother was the teacher. Right,

396
00:18:41,319 --> 00:18:43,000
so I don't have I don't have a problem with

397
00:18:43,039 --> 00:18:45,359
the concept of God or a higher power. I was

398
00:18:45,599 --> 00:18:48,519
really mad at God because I was like, Okay, you know,

399
00:18:48,559 --> 00:18:51,680
I'm chubby, I'm single, I'm a single Mom, I'm.

400
00:18:51,519 --> 00:18:53,640
Speaker 3: Barely living paycheck to paycheck, and.

401
00:18:53,559 --> 00:18:55,799
Speaker 2: Now you want to take my vodka away, like you're

402
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,160
just mean, you know, you're just mean and you don't

403
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,000
care about me, to take the well the only thing

404
00:19:01,279 --> 00:19:04,440
around that's been there for me, which is obviously not true,

405
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:06,799
but that's what I thought in my head. And as

406
00:19:06,839 --> 00:19:09,359
I was driving back to my house, I was shaking

407
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:11,880
my fist at God, just like, if this is really it,

408
00:19:12,599 --> 00:19:14,519
give me one more sign.

409
00:19:14,559 --> 00:19:14,799
Speaker 3: You know.

410
00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:19,599
Speaker 2: And as I'm demanding a sign from God, a ding

411
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,960
goes off in my car and it says.

412
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:30,400
Speaker 3: Perform service. And I was just like, I had to

413
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,720
pull over. I had to pull over.

414
00:19:32,799 --> 00:19:35,400
Speaker 2: And yes, I know I needed an oil change, not

415
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:38,559
the point of the story. I was demanding a sign

416
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,720
and I got perform service. I also did not realize

417
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,759
how funny that line would be over the years, right, Obviously,

418
00:19:44,839 --> 00:19:47,119
I had no idea. I pulled over to the side

419
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:51,440
of the road and I just something cracked open, like surrender.

420
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,319
I just cracked open and I started like you know

421
00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:56,920
when you laugh through tears, and there's just booger and

422
00:19:57,039 --> 00:19:59,799
laugh and crying, and I'm.

423
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,160
Speaker 3: Just sitting there and I'm just like, because.

424
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,680
Speaker 2: My God has a sense of humor. He was like, Okay,

425
00:20:05,759 --> 00:20:06,799
she's demanding a sign.

426
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:07,519
Speaker 3: Let's give her one.

427
00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,640
Speaker 2: See what she does next, right, And I was like,

428
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,960
what I mean, Okay, fine, you win, I'm done. I'll

429
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,480
do whatever. I will literally like, you're right, I'm done,

430
00:20:18,839 --> 00:20:21,759
and just total surrender. And I wish there was some

431
00:20:21,839 --> 00:20:24,160
way you could package that up and hand someone told

432
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,680
her total surrender, but unfortunately it's a very personal experience

433
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:29,200
that you just have to get to when you get

434
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,119
to it. In my that's what I believe. And as

435
00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:36,279
I was sitting there surrendering and just like I give up, fine,

436
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,960
I will do whatever, I look back into the dash

437
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,920
and the perform service had gone away, and what came

438
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,759
back up was my cast tank and it showed I

439
00:20:45,799 --> 00:20:48,359
was just a little bit below a quarter of a tank,

440
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,559
not quite yet on empty. And then what I heard,

441
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,559
as if there really was a person in the passenger seat,

442
00:20:54,599 --> 00:20:56,720
which yes, I was hearing voices that is where I

443
00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:00,880
was in my addiction. What I heard then was God saying,

444
00:21:01,279 --> 00:21:01,960
you can do this.

445
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:06,200
Speaker 3: Now. The next time I come back for you, you

446
00:21:06,279 --> 00:21:07,480
will be past empty.

447
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,160
Speaker 2: And I mean I heard it, and I was just

448
00:21:11,319 --> 00:21:14,920
and that to me was my burning Bush moment. And

449
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,640
by the grace of God and a bunch of other things,

450
00:21:17,759 --> 00:21:20,960
I haven't had a drink since that night, which was

451
00:21:21,079 --> 00:21:22,960
April thirtieth, two thousand and six.

452
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,599
Speaker 1: So did you go back, did you go into treatment

453
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:28,839
into like a thirty day or did you continue?

454
00:21:29,079 --> 00:21:33,200
Speaker 2: Did you stayed on my project management self will plan.

455
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:35,960
I did not go to the thirty day because I

456
00:21:36,079 --> 00:21:38,759
still convinced myself I couldn't afford it, couldn't do it.

457
00:21:38,799 --> 00:21:40,680
I had good insurance at the time, but I just

458
00:21:40,759 --> 00:21:43,319
like I couldn't do it. But I did do outpatient

459
00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:46,200
and I did start hanging out in church basements every

460
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:50,559
single day, and I did. I did everything everyone told

461
00:21:50,559 --> 00:21:54,119
me to do, and you know what, it worked. I

462
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:58,559
did get sober and I did stay sober. But I

463
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,680
around year three or year four, I didn't want to drink.

464
00:22:04,759 --> 00:22:07,359
I didn't want to live because what had happened is

465
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,480
I hadn't actually changed anything. I had managed to not

466
00:22:10,599 --> 00:22:12,839
drink for three or four years. I had managed to

467
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:14,920
not put any drugs in my body for three or

468
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,200
four years. My career had taken off. Now I'm at

469
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,720
a magazine. I'm running this fancy magazine so I got

470
00:22:21,759 --> 00:22:25,519
my dream job. By getting sober, great, I became a

471
00:22:25,599 --> 00:22:28,839
raging workaholic, and I didn't change anything else, meaning I

472
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,200
was still making a lot of bad, questionable decisions with

473
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,480
my dating life. You know, there was still a lot.

474
00:22:34,519 --> 00:22:36,759
I still was not managing money. Well, I was still like,

475
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,200
nothing really changed other than I wasn't drunk. And so

476
00:22:40,279 --> 00:22:43,440
where that left me was actually more depressed and more

477
00:22:43,519 --> 00:22:46,000
shamefull of shame, and more broken at year three or

478
00:22:46,039 --> 00:22:48,640
four than I was a day three or four, right,

479
00:22:49,319 --> 00:22:52,200
And that was scary to confront the I don't want

480
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,839
to live because I was a mom and I was

481
00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,160
like and he was still like very young, you know,

482
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,359
he was like thirteen at the time, now four fourteen

483
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,400
at the time. And so that is what it took

484
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,480
for me to not only meet with a doctor and

485
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:10,599
a therapist and get on a plan medically, but I

486
00:23:10,799 --> 00:23:15,759
also then actually stopped sitting in rooms and I started

487
00:23:15,799 --> 00:23:20,200
doing step work. And step work is where my life changed.

488
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:26,200
That's where everything changed. But the workoholism continued. And where

489
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,640
that left me was at ten years sober, I had

490
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,559
emergency heart surgery. So at the age of forty, Yeah,

491
00:23:32,599 --> 00:23:36,160
at the age of forty, and that is that was

492
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,079
a direct result of the alcoholic drugs I had put

493
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,400
in my body for sixteen years and then the stressful

494
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,920
life I was living for the next ten years. Right,

495
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:50,000
And so I have definitely one big walking cautionary tail.

496
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:53,400
Speaker 3: And I will say what happened then, even.

497
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,039
Speaker 2: Though I had worked the steps at that point a

498
00:23:55,079 --> 00:23:58,039
couple of times, and I've been sponsoring lots of people,

499
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,359
and I will say, for me, helping other people through

500
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,359
their step work was more beneficial than me going through

501
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,440
it myself. And I stand by that to this day.

502
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,160
And that's why I will still help people to this day,

503
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:12,920
because I get so much out of it. And at

504
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,519
the end of the day, I'm still super selfish, but

505
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,440
almost dying at the age of forty, being wheeled into

506
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,400
emergency heart surgeries, you know, saying goodbye to my son,

507
00:24:21,519 --> 00:24:23,440
saying goodbye to my parents, not knowing if I was

508
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:27,079
coming back out. That'll change your perspective on how you

509
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,680
do a lot of things. And so the last decade

510
00:24:30,799 --> 00:24:33,519
has been trying to figure out a career with work

511
00:24:33,559 --> 00:24:37,960
life balance, which I've done a really good improvement.

512
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:38,759
Speaker 3: There. Am I perfect?

513
00:24:38,839 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 1: There?

514
00:24:39,079 --> 00:24:42,400
Speaker 2: No do? I still tend to work too much sometimes, absolutely,

515
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,799
But I've got checks and balances in place, right, and

516
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,200
everything I was doing ten years ago for my recovery

517
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:53,039
I still do and a little bit more because I'm

518
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:56,279
of the camp that this is a progressive thing that

519
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,480
I'm not ever going to be cured from.

520
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,079
Speaker 3: It doesn't have to define me, but it's progressive.

521
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 2: Meaning if I were to pick up a drink today,

522
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,440
I believe I would be worse off today than I

523
00:25:06,519 --> 00:25:09,200
was ten years ago, twenty years ago. So if this

524
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,720
thing is progressive, then I have to be progressive in

525
00:25:12,759 --> 00:25:13,880
what I do for it.

526
00:25:14,039 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 3: Right.

527
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 2: And for those of you that buy insurance policies, think

528
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,599
about why you buy insurance policies, right. You buy them

529
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,119
because it gives you a sense of protection. And I

530
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,319
love insurance policies. I will put insurance on anything. I've

531
00:25:26,319 --> 00:25:29,319
got insurance on my dog, right, Like if I buy

532
00:25:29,319 --> 00:25:31,039
an appliance and they're like, do you want insurance?

533
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 3: Yes, I do.

534
00:25:31,799 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 2: I want insurance on everything because it gives me the

535
00:25:34,079 --> 00:25:37,480
sense of false control. But it also when things do

536
00:25:37,559 --> 00:25:41,039
go sideways, it does help. And so I believe there's

537
00:25:41,079 --> 00:25:42,359
a lot of things I have to do for my

538
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:45,480
insurance policy on my recovery and that I'll actually have

539
00:25:45,519 --> 00:25:48,039
to come has to come first, because if I'm not

540
00:25:48,319 --> 00:25:51,559
sober and work and being in recovery first and foremost,

541
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,440
none of the rest of it matters. I'm not a

542
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,279
good friend, I'm not a good daughter, I'm not a

543
00:25:56,279 --> 00:25:58,920
good mom. You know, I'm not a good anything. If

544
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:03,799
I'm not working on constantly improving the areas that I

545
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:08,119
naturally gravitate towards big an asshole are being super selfish,

546
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,519
and so I am on a long journey. I'm definitely

547
00:26:11,599 --> 00:26:14,119
not there yet. I've learned a lot of things. Unfortunately,

548
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:15,759
there's still a lot of things I seem to have

549
00:26:15,799 --> 00:26:20,799
to keep repeating, which sucks. But I look if I

550
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,160
when I look back now, if I would have said, hey,

551
00:26:23,279 --> 00:26:26,640
lease of twenty years ago, if you just do these

552
00:26:26,799 --> 00:26:31,039
actually really simple things so I like to overcomplicate things,

553
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,359
If you just do these really simple, simple things repeatedly,

554
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,039
you're going to get all of this. I would have

555
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,559
never believed I would have had the life that I've

556
00:26:39,559 --> 00:26:42,880
had over the last two decades twenty years ago, never

557
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,519
in a million years, And I wouldn't have dreamt big

558
00:26:45,599 --> 00:26:48,000
enough for myself right the.

559
00:26:48,039 --> 00:26:49,720
Speaker 3: Dreams I had were eh.

560
00:26:49,799 --> 00:26:52,880
Speaker 2: The dreams I got were wow, you know, And so

561
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,440
I'm actually very excited to see what's next because in

562
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,440
a book somewhere it does say the best is yet

563
00:26:58,440 --> 00:26:58,799
to come.

564
00:26:59,319 --> 00:27:02,039
Speaker 1: So do you still work for a magazine, because I

565
00:27:02,039 --> 00:27:06,119
know you've built you'r the Sober Curator, And I mean,

566
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,240
I want to hear, how long into sobriety did you

567
00:27:09,279 --> 00:27:13,799
start working making your career about sobriety.

568
00:27:14,519 --> 00:27:17,240
Speaker 3: So that's such a good question. I didn't for a

569
00:27:17,279 --> 00:27:17,880
long time.

570
00:27:18,319 --> 00:27:20,559
Speaker 2: So when I was at the magazine for a decade

571
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,839
and then I left and went to a TV station,

572
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,119
an NBCTV station in Seattle, and I worked on their

573
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:31,799
lifestyle shows. Oh wow, okay, And because we were producing

574
00:27:31,839 --> 00:27:36,039
two lifestyle shows and one YouTube lifestyle show locally. So

575
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,119
that's the same thing. That's like taking a magazine and

576
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,400
bringing the content to life. And that was also during

577
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:44,599
a time where social media was shifting into more video content,

578
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,799
more and more and more video content. You know, we

579
00:27:46,799 --> 00:27:49,119
weren't quite we were just we were just starting the

580
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,599
tiktoks of the world and the instagram reels of the world,

581
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:56,480
and YouTube was becoming much more mainstream and I was

582
00:27:56,599 --> 00:27:59,880
it was I was there during the pandemic, and so

583
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:04,440
up until twenty twenty, I did not recover out loud

584
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,240
on the internet because I was told at the level

585
00:28:08,279 --> 00:28:10,839
of press, radio, and film. And that's all what I

586
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:12,480
was told is press, radio and film.

587
00:28:12,599 --> 00:28:15,759
Speaker 3: Right. So, but if you met me in person and

588
00:28:15,799 --> 00:28:16,480
it came up.

589
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 2: In an organic way that I could be helpful, I

590
00:28:19,279 --> 00:28:21,960
wasn't shy about it, but I was most definitely not

591
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:23,960
putting it on a hat or a shirt or LinkedIn.

592
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:24,440
Speaker 3: Right.

593
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 2: But then when the pandemic happened and we all many

594
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,559
of us got pushed to work from home, and I

595
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,200
was then given the gift of time. So I was

596
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,680
no longer commuting, I was no longer going to events,

597
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:36,559
I was no longer traveling. That's a lot of time

598
00:28:37,079 --> 00:28:40,079
now just at home. And because I'm a heart survivor,

599
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,960
I was being extra extra cautious because in the early

600
00:28:43,039 --> 00:28:46,079
days of COVID, we didn't know what we didn't know right, right, right,

601
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,839
So I was definitely the one wiping her groceries down. Yes,

602
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:53,480
I was that girl. And after we had been there

603
00:28:53,519 --> 00:28:55,519
for a couple months and realized, oh, this is going

604
00:28:55,599 --> 00:28:57,480
to be much longer than the three weeks, they told

605
00:28:57,559 --> 00:28:58,880
us this is going to be We're going to be

606
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:00,160
here for a minute.

607
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,000
Speaker 3: I was like, well, you have two choices. You can

608
00:29:02,079 --> 00:29:03,480
either finish watching the rest.

609
00:29:03,279 --> 00:29:07,279
Speaker 2: Of Netflix, or you can do something with your time

610
00:29:07,359 --> 00:29:09,480
that when this is over and we all come back

611
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,440
to the normal world, you feel proud of. And so

612
00:29:12,599 --> 00:29:15,119
that is when I decided to launch the Sober Curator.

613
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:19,599
It was actually six years ago this week that I

614
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,640
sat down at my parents' dining room table and pulled

615
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,000
out my laptop and was like I had at this point.

616
00:29:26,319 --> 00:29:29,160
I I had run a city magazine, I had worked

617
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,519
at a big TV station, but I was like the

618
00:29:31,559 --> 00:29:34,440
boss of the people that were building the website and

619
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,839
doing the social media and writing the content and editing

620
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,160
the content. I wasn't doing any of those things, right,

621
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,200
I'm just the mouthpiece. But I was like, I should

622
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,640
be able to figure this out. So I taught myself WordPress,

623
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,240
and I taught myself graphic design, and I taught myself

624
00:29:48,319 --> 00:29:50,319
how to write the way that I talked. So then

625
00:29:50,359 --> 00:29:52,039
it kind of sounds like me. I mean, it does

626
00:29:52,039 --> 00:29:55,559
sound like me. But then I knew like with this project,

627
00:29:55,599 --> 00:29:58,559
because I knew what I wanted. I at that point

628
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,359
there was a sober community online, right, their sober influencers exist.

629
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:03,920
There was now a bunch of books, There was now

630
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:08,960
a bunch of podcasts, Great awesome love seeing that would

631
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,240
have used much of that in early sobriety. But as

632
00:30:12,279 --> 00:30:14,640
a person at that point fifteen years sober, it didn't

633
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:16,960
speak to me as a woman in long term sobriety,

634
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,720
which I think anything with two digits is long term.

635
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:24,039
And so I was like, where is the space online

636
00:30:24,039 --> 00:30:28,119
for people in long term recovery? Because we still have problems.

637
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,799
Things are still hard, life gets lifey. Our problems are

638
00:30:32,799 --> 00:30:36,119
just classier, right and.

639
00:30:34,559 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 3: So we and we yeh.

640
00:30:37,759 --> 00:30:39,319
Speaker 2: So I just I couldn't find it, and so I

641
00:30:39,319 --> 00:30:41,279
was like, you know what, I'm just gonna build it myself.

642
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,119
So that's what I did. I sat down at my

643
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,599
parents' dining room table. I mapped out a plan. I

644
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,400
launched the site by accident before it was ready. The

645
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:53,759
original name was The Sober Critic, which I thought was clever,

646
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,039
and then I was like, oh no, Like one week

647
00:30:56,079 --> 00:30:58,160
in I was like, oh no, people are going to

648
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:02,000
think I'm criticizing the different path of recovery, which I'm not. Right,

649
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,160
I don't care, and so our whole thing is like,

650
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:05,759
I don't care how you get sober.

651
00:31:06,039 --> 00:31:07,519
Speaker 3: I don't care why you get sober.

652
00:31:07,599 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 2: I don't even care if you don't like the word sober,

653
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,920
but if you're not putting substances in your body on

654
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,079
purpose so that you can show up fully present and

655
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,480
just deal with the life, the life that can serve

656
00:31:19,519 --> 00:31:22,519
to you, like I want to have a conversation with you,

657
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:24,640
and I want to keep you motivated. I want to

658
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,359
keep you inspired, I want to keep you entertained. Right,

659
00:31:27,839 --> 00:31:30,480
And so, the Sober Curator is a lifestyle hub, and

660
00:31:30,559 --> 00:31:34,160
we write a rout. We write about non alcoholic drinks,

661
00:31:34,359 --> 00:31:36,880
all the kinds, except we don't cover the ones with

662
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,920
THHD in them because I am trying to hold space

663
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,799
for everyone, and I don't If you drink those, that's fine,

664
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,039
but I need to hold space for the people that don't, too, right,

665
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,640
so we don't. We were very intentional about what we

666
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,720
do and don't cover on the drink side, and the

667
00:31:51,799 --> 00:31:53,000
drink side is not for everyone.

668
00:31:53,079 --> 00:31:54,519
Speaker 3: Some people can be very triggered by that.

669
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,319
Speaker 2: I don't know what it's like to be in early

670
00:31:56,359 --> 00:31:59,160
sobriety and have all those options because they didn't exist

671
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,680
when I was sober, but they probably would have been

672
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,759
triggery for me. I can have them now if I'm

673
00:32:04,759 --> 00:32:06,680
out at a fancy dinner, I'm like, sure, I'll try

674
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:07,799
your mocktail off your menu.

675
00:32:08,079 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 3: But am I making cocktails at home that are alcohol free?

676
00:32:11,319 --> 00:32:13,119
I'm not. I'm drinking diet coke, you know.

677
00:32:13,359 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: I remember a couple of years into the writ, No,

678
00:32:16,279 --> 00:32:18,039
maybe it was really early. Maybe it was in my

679
00:32:18,079 --> 00:32:21,240
first year. I remember going to a restaurant and ordering

680
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,200
Tremi sue and oh yeah, having a bite of it

681
00:32:25,279 --> 00:32:30,440
and being like, oh, oh yeah, wow, this really tastes

682
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,119
like alcohol. And then I had a whole thing in

683
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,839
my head because I was like, well, you're not going

684
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,119
to get drunk off Terremi Sue or kids couldn't order it,

685
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,279
you know, but it still felt wrong and not awaken

686
00:32:43,519 --> 00:32:46,519
the beast right, And I was like, well, it's still

687
00:32:46,839 --> 00:32:49,839
tasting so much like alcohol that I'm very uncomfortable. So

688
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,160
I didn't eat it. And then I felt weird about

689
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,200
it and told my sponsor and she was like, you're fine.

690
00:32:55,559 --> 00:32:59,680
It's about intention, and it is about yeah, but it

691
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:01,200
was a it was a kind of a little wake

692
00:33:01,279 --> 00:33:01,640
up call.

693
00:33:02,279 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, of like, oh, labels, Yeah, read labels and know

694
00:33:06,279 --> 00:33:09,640
your body right, and I have had. I did that

695
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,559
once with a cherry Jubilee and it was just having

696
00:33:12,559 --> 00:33:16,000
that one bite and I was like, oh oh, and I.

697
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 3: Knew I wasn't going to get drunk off the dessert

698
00:33:18,119 --> 00:33:20,839
right right right. And I probably even had like two

699
00:33:20,839 --> 00:33:21,279
more bites.

700
00:33:21,319 --> 00:33:23,319
Speaker 2: I know I didn't finish it, but I will say

701
00:33:23,359 --> 00:33:25,359
it stayed in my mind for a couple of weeks,

702
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,920
and so that's all I needed to know to that

703
00:33:28,039 --> 00:33:30,920
was the research I needed to know. It's not for you, right,

704
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,359
It's not for you. It's not worth it, It's not

705
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:38,400
worth the risk. We also write about we write about fashion,

706
00:33:38,559 --> 00:33:42,240
we write about merchandise. I love finding sober business owners

707
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,319
that are doing their thing and maybe they're not recovering

708
00:33:45,319 --> 00:33:47,599
out loud, but they just they're a sober business owner.

709
00:33:47,599 --> 00:33:48,920
I want to I want to get to know them.

710
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,799
I want to help promote their companies because if given

711
00:33:51,799 --> 00:33:53,720
the choice to do business with someone who's sober, I'm

712
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,480
going to pick them. Every time we cover travel, we

713
00:33:57,559 --> 00:33:59,960
love covering travel and events. We have a very row

714
00:34:00,079 --> 00:34:04,000
bust events and retreat calendar, and then entertainment is really

715
00:34:04,039 --> 00:34:06,480
our stick. So we do a ton of book reviews,

716
00:34:06,599 --> 00:34:12,239
podcast reviews, movie reviews, TV show reviews, music celebrities, anything

717
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,719
that is in pop culture that ends up in the

718
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:18,119
sober zeitgeist. I'm trying to like grab a hold of.

719
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,960
So a good example of this was at the beginning

720
00:34:21,039 --> 00:34:26,960
of July, the original manuscript with Bill W's handwriting went

721
00:34:27,159 --> 00:34:32,039
on sale at Christy's Auction in New York and it

722
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,760
has actually been purchased by the foundation that runs the

723
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:40,719
Bill and Lowis House wherever that is. That foundation has

724
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:45,119
actually purchased a manuscriptisodes now it's returned back to its

725
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:49,199
original owners, if you will. But that manuscript has been

726
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:53,119
in other people's eccentric rich people's eccentric collections for many

727
00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:56,000
years and sold for many millions of dollars to the

728
00:34:56,039 --> 00:34:59,599
different places. So that's something that's interesting to me, right,

729
00:34:59,639 --> 00:35:02,880
It's interesting to me that that is still something that's

730
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,519
been preserved and archived, and it's interested to me the

731
00:35:05,599 --> 00:35:11,480
hands that it's changed and the daughters. The man who

732
00:35:11,519 --> 00:35:14,079
owned it passed away and so the daughters were selling

733
00:35:14,159 --> 00:35:17,159
off a lot of his pieces of collection, but they

734
00:35:17,199 --> 00:35:20,000
save that one for last, because that was the one

735
00:35:20,119 --> 00:35:23,239
he was most important to him. I just think, you know,

736
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,280
these are things that are interesting, and that's what we're

737
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,519
trying to do with this number curator is to archive

738
00:35:27,599 --> 00:35:30,519
this stuff in real time, so we can kind.

739
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:32,119
Speaker 3: Of archive what happened in the past.

740
00:35:32,639 --> 00:35:34,639
Speaker 2: But we're also trying to like, we're not going to

741
00:35:34,639 --> 00:35:36,360
be able to predict the future, but we're trying to

742
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,199
see where things are going.

743
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 3: You know.

744
00:35:38,559 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 2: Now we've got the layer of AI involved, and some

745
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,280
people are using AI in their sobriety tools. I have

746
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,320
yet to figure out how to have AI write my

747
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:48,960
fourth step, but you know that's fun.

748
00:35:50,199 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 1: Can I ask you, like, what are a couple of

749
00:35:53,119 --> 00:35:56,559
movies about sobriety. I'll tell you one of mine, Yeah,

750
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:58,880
one of my favorites. And I'll tell you one of

751
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,079
my favorite books. But I am a sucker for When

752
00:36:02,079 --> 00:36:06,039
a Man Loves a Woman Meg Ryan, Andy Garcia. I'll

753
00:36:06,039 --> 00:36:08,880
tell you why I love it so much, because I

754
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,679
feel like there have been a lot of movies about alcoholics,

755
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:17,360
and you know, or people who not necessarily alcoholic, but

756
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:22,400
people who are trying to be alcohol free. I kid

757
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:24,880
with I'm making a joke about some people don't want it.

758
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,280
We don't want to label ourselves. But you know, there's

759
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:29,599
been movies about addiction. Let's just say a lot of them,

760
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:31,639
and a lot of them have to do with And

761
00:36:31,679 --> 00:36:33,320
this goes back to what we were talking about at

762
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,880
the beginning, about the getting sober and then once you

763
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,239
get sober, that's the goal, and then everybody lives happily

764
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:44,039
ever after. What I really liked about When a Man

765
00:36:44,079 --> 00:36:47,119
Loves a Woman was that so Meg Ryan, you know,

766
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,719
is like a happy drunk, pretty pretty functional, except that

767
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:55,199
she's she's like us where you know, she has a

768
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,400
nice life, but she get when she drinks, she does

769
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,599
it too much, and you know, shit happens, and so

770
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:05,559
she falls through her shower. She hits her kid and

771
00:37:05,599 --> 00:37:08,440
then falls through her shower door and the kid thinks

772
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,800
she's died, and it's very sad and she has to

773
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,079
go to rehab. And then when she gets out of rehab,

774
00:37:14,119 --> 00:37:19,599
her husband, who's very hot Andy Garcia is really seems

775
00:37:19,639 --> 00:37:22,519
to be being the greatest husband ever. He's very he

776
00:37:22,559 --> 00:37:25,159
cares about her, he's trying to, you know, and she

777
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:29,480
gets the ick from her husband because now she's sober

778
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:34,480
and she's like, ough, he's so codependent. He's infantilizing me,

779
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,079
and she wants to just hang out with her edgy,

780
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:42,199
new sober friends, and she's mad and irritable. And then

781
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,119
Andy Garcia, whose name I forgot in the movie, so

782
00:37:46,159 --> 00:37:50,360
we'll just call me Andy Garcia, is like, I like,

783
00:37:50,639 --> 00:37:53,920
this is not okay, Like I would like to have

784
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,960
my wife not tell me her skin crawls when I

785
00:37:57,039 --> 00:37:59,000
touch her, basically.

786
00:37:58,639 --> 00:38:00,679
Speaker 4: And then they're gonna get a divorce. They're going to

787
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,800
get separated. And I was like, this is the dealing

788
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:04,159
with like.

789
00:38:04,159 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 1: Real shit, Like it's not easy, the aftermath of getting sober,

790
00:38:08,559 --> 00:38:12,519
like some stuff changes, it's hard, and that's the part

791
00:38:12,599 --> 00:38:15,639
that's I think the some of the important story to

792
00:38:15,679 --> 00:38:17,719
tell is how do you get through that and how

793
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:21,719
do you lean on your friends but also confront some

794
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:25,400
of your own issues. And I don't know, I thought

795
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:26,519
it was a really good movie.

796
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 3: It's a really good movie. It's a classic for a

797
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:30,559
reason for sure.

798
00:38:31,559 --> 00:38:37,119
Speaker 2: And unfortunately, the way the alcohol is portrayed in movies

799
00:38:37,119 --> 00:38:40,760
and TV shows is, you know, we either see the

800
00:38:41,079 --> 00:38:44,239
traditional rock bottom in the first thirty days, but then

801
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,239
we never know what happens to them after that. I

802
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:51,480
also so at the Sobercurator. We have a private membership

803
00:38:51,519 --> 00:38:53,519
if you will. All the content on the Sober Curator

804
00:38:53,599 --> 00:38:56,440
is free, got almost three thousand pieces of content.

805
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 3: Our newsletter is free.

806
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,760
Speaker 2: But earlier this year we started backstage with the Sober Curator,

807
00:39:02,079 --> 00:39:05,760
which is it is a paid membership, but think of

808
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:12,599
it as like masterclass but interactive, and a podcast but interactive.

809
00:39:13,599 --> 00:39:16,440
You come and you are learning something and oh, by

810
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,400
the way, everybody in the room happens to be sober

811
00:39:18,679 --> 00:39:21,440
or they're a sober ally right. And so we recently

812
00:39:21,519 --> 00:39:24,440
had Ted Mandel from Notre Dame is a professor at

813
00:39:24,519 --> 00:39:27,519
Notre Dame and he teaches a class call a course

814
00:39:27,599 --> 00:39:31,320
called Drunk on Film where he exposes the way that

815
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:35,079
Hollywood portray's alcohol in a way that it sets it

816
00:39:35,159 --> 00:39:37,360
up to be not what it really is, you know,

817
00:39:37,559 --> 00:39:40,400
glamorous and without consequence and whatever.

818
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,079
Speaker 3: And so he just came and.

819
00:39:43,599 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 2: Took us through like a one hour version of his course,

820
00:39:47,079 --> 00:39:49,360
and I have to tell you, I got so mad

821
00:39:49,599 --> 00:39:52,440
watching it because I can see now the movies that

822
00:39:52,519 --> 00:39:55,280
I watched in the nineties and the two thousands why

823
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,199
I was so influenced to drink the way that I did.

824
00:39:59,039 --> 00:40:01,760
But then was baffled so that I had these consequences,

825
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:06,119
but the characters in the films didn't, you know, And

826
00:40:06,159 --> 00:40:09,920
so that was a fascinating thing. What I'm hoping as

827
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,119
we're archiving all these reviews on is it a good

828
00:40:13,199 --> 00:40:18,239
job of showing addiction? Is it too stereotypical? Like I

829
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,880
want to see more characters in films and movies that

830
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,079
have five years sober, ten years sober, fifteen years sober,

831
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:27,000
and it's part of the storyline, it doesn't have to

832
00:40:27,039 --> 00:40:29,599
be the only part. And we're seeing that. So like

833
00:40:29,639 --> 00:40:32,199
The Lincoln Lawyer, if you've watched that series, I think

834
00:40:32,199 --> 00:40:36,159
it's on Netflix. He's a detective. No, he's an attorney,

835
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,280
excuse me, but he does a lot of detective work

836
00:40:38,599 --> 00:40:40,920
for his cases. He's sober, and so once in a

837
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:44,119
while you'll hear him say something that is a language

838
00:40:44,199 --> 00:40:46,280
that those of us that hang out in church basements

839
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,760
will pick up on. There was also a show that

840
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,559
came out. It had two seasons I believe, called Single

841
00:40:52,599 --> 00:40:56,039
Drunk Female and Yes. The main character it was about

842
00:40:56,079 --> 00:40:58,320
she was twenty seven. She lost her job because of

843
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,559
her drinking, and so the show follows her in the

844
00:41:01,599 --> 00:41:05,280
first one year of her sobriety, and she goes to

845
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,280
twelve step rooms and her mom is super codependant and

846
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:12,320
her mom was Ali sheety. Her aunt is Molly Ringwald.

847
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,440
Like it's great, you know, but what the characters that

848
00:41:15,559 --> 00:41:18,599
I actually identified with in that show were her sponsors.

849
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:22,079
In season one, her sponsor had ten years right. In

850
00:41:22,159 --> 00:41:25,599
season two, her sponsor was actually played by Busy Phillips,

851
00:41:26,199 --> 00:41:28,960
and she was twenty years sober, but she was a kleptomaniac,

852
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:31,360
you know. And so it was just like, that's what

853
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,199
I want to see because I've evolved in my recovery

854
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,679
journey and now I want the movies and the TV shows.

855
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,480
I want them to catch up. And so but in

856
00:41:40,559 --> 00:41:42,679
order to have that happen, we have to be talking

857
00:41:42,679 --> 00:41:45,119
about it, I think. And so that's what we look

858
00:41:45,199 --> 00:41:48,199
for when we're looking for movies. I think my favorite,

859
00:41:48,199 --> 00:41:50,760
though if I had to say my favorite of all time,

860
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,920
I could narrow it down to two. I'm always going

861
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,239
to vote twenty eight Days with Sander Bullet because to me,

862
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,280
that's a classic. I even during the pandemic, made a

863
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,239
Peep's diary of it. I thought it was very clever

864
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:07,360
and then and that one's just obviously she's drunk. She

865
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:09,960
goes to rehab for twenty eight days. That's the storyline,

866
00:42:10,199 --> 00:42:12,519
she gets sober. We don't know what happens though afterwards.

867
00:42:12,639 --> 00:42:15,800
So I would love to see twenty eight days later

868
00:42:16,119 --> 00:42:19,280
two or something and now it's like her daughter has

869
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:20,000
to go to rehab.

870
00:42:20,039 --> 00:42:21,760
Speaker 3: I think that would be a really great sequel.

871
00:42:22,639 --> 00:42:27,360
Speaker 2: I've also loved Flight with Denzel Washington because there's a

872
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:31,320
few and Denzel Washington is ten years sober irl, and

873
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:35,840
so I do think if you pay attention to celebrities, actors,

874
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:40,079
actresses that are truly in addiction it have been through

875
00:42:40,079 --> 00:42:42,440
addiction and are now sober, and you see them play

876
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,480
a character with addiction, they will play it better than

877
00:42:45,519 --> 00:42:49,360
anybody ever can because they're drawing on lived experience. Jamie

878
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:53,320
Lee Curtis is another example. She plays an alcoholic mom

879
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:57,000
in The Bear and there's an episode I think it's

880
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,880
like season three years four, you know, the one where

881
00:42:59,920 --> 00:43:00,480
she makes.

882
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,280
Speaker 4: Some mens yeah, uh huh yeah.

883
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 2: Like there's that's she's drawing from lived experience. That is

884
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,800
I'm sorry, And she is an amazing actor. She's won awards,

885
00:43:11,159 --> 00:43:13,960
but like, I don't believe in even even the best

886
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,039
actor on earth. If they don't have the lived experience,

887
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:18,800
they're not going to be able to do it the

888
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:21,519
same way. This is the hill I'm willing to die

889
00:43:21,559 --> 00:43:24,519
on because I just think it makes a difference, right,

890
00:43:25,039 --> 00:43:27,199
And so that's the kind of stuff that we love

891
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:29,920
stories like we learned from stories, and so that's why

892
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:33,400
I think it's very important that the stories start to evolve,

893
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:35,360
because I believe that recovery is evolving.

894
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:39,159
Speaker 1: Here's a book that I love that I read years

895
00:43:39,199 --> 00:43:41,679
before I got sober, and I'm sure you love this

896
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:43,599
book too, But Drinking a love Story.

897
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 3: It's a Caroline Nap Journal Library. You must, yeah.

898
00:43:48,559 --> 00:43:51,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I've read that book probably four or five times,

899
00:43:51,639 --> 00:43:54,559
and you know, over the course of many many years.

900
00:43:54,599 --> 00:43:56,719
I'm saying because, like I said, I read it before

901
00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:59,679
I ever got sober. But wow, what a great book.

902
00:44:00,599 --> 00:44:05,679
Not a perfect person no spoiler alert, she dies.

903
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 4: So sad.

904
00:44:08,639 --> 00:44:13,760
Speaker 1: Then I read a book by her best friend whose

905
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,719
name is Gail. Now I can't remember the book, but

906
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:20,440
it's about their friendship, which was a really beautiful book

907
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:22,800
that I liked very much.

908
00:44:23,519 --> 00:44:24,639
Speaker 4: So what do you think?

909
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 1: I mean, Like I said, before I hit record, you

910
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:32,199
were saying that you do you feel because I think

911
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:37,639
that sobriety has become much more trendy and many people

912
00:44:37,679 --> 00:44:40,920
talking about it, which I appreciate. I think it's been normalized.

913
00:44:41,079 --> 00:44:46,159
So when I got sober seventeen years ago, it was

914
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,599
still there was a lot of shame about especially for

915
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:53,159
me because I was a mom. So I don't know

916
00:44:53,159 --> 00:44:54,800
if you know this book. So I had written a

917
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,320
book called Sippy Cups or Not for Chardonnay, which was

918
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,880
a huge book, and I talked a lot about drinking

919
00:45:01,079 --> 00:45:01,679
in the book.

920
00:45:02,159 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 4: This was not a book written sober.

921
00:45:04,039 --> 00:45:06,400
Speaker 1: This was a book written by an alcoholic who was

922
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:11,199
trying to justify my drinking as being hilarious and a lifestyle.

923
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:14,039
You know, I did not know better. I started writing

924
00:45:14,079 --> 00:45:16,480
the book when my daughter was only a few months old,

925
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:21,119
and I was an edgy, you know, comedian who was like,

926
00:45:21,559 --> 00:45:23,519
I don't have to lose my personality.

927
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:24,079
Speaker 4: Now.

928
00:45:24,199 --> 00:45:27,199
Speaker 1: I wasn't drinking as much as I probably portrayed in

929
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:31,159
the book. But the point is when I got sober

930
00:45:31,679 --> 00:45:36,840
many years later, it became news because here's this person

931
00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:40,599
who had written all about how great drinking as a

932
00:45:40,639 --> 00:45:43,400
mom is and defending drinking and then all of a sudden,

933
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:46,400
I wasn't drinking, so the New York Times was interested.

934
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,559
Way too many people were interested, and I was very

935
00:45:49,599 --> 00:45:53,440
newly sober. So by the time I was like six

936
00:45:53,519 --> 00:45:56,480
months sober, I was doing interview.

937
00:45:56,559 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 4: I was very certain that I was done drinking.

938
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 1: I like you had the gift of desperation and was done.

939
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:10,039
So it wasn't even though I was still for the

940
00:46:10,079 --> 00:46:13,360
first year like, I don't know if I'm a diagnosable

941
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:16,239
like alcoholic, like what is like? I still feel like

942
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:19,199
my drinking was different than other people's. I was doing

943
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:22,679
that for like the first year until I decided a

944
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:27,119
year in doesn't really matter. I don't want to drink,

945
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,000
and I don't want to drink more than I want

946
00:46:30,039 --> 00:46:33,239
to go back to drinking, so who cares. I'll call

947
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:35,480
it alcoholic. I guess I'm an Alcohol'll call it that,

948
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:37,639
you know. And then I got used to that, and

949
00:46:37,679 --> 00:46:39,960
it's totally fine with me now. And I appreciate the

950
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:43,719
word because I am a black and white thinker and

951
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:47,639
I need to think of myself as I need to

952
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,679
be somebody who's like, I can't drink not well, I

953
00:46:51,679 --> 00:46:53,159
don't know, I might not be an alcoholic.

954
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:54,639
Speaker 4: Maybe I'm just alcohol free.

955
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:56,760
Speaker 1: It's like, well, that's fine, But that, to me, that

956
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:59,559
implies that there's a chance that I might be able

957
00:46:59,599 --> 00:47:02,960
to sneak in. Once I figured this all out and

958
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:05,679
I've done alcohol free for a while, I could reintroduce

959
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,159
alcohol and be different. And I just know I reached

960
00:47:09,199 --> 00:47:11,079
a point where I was like, no, I'm just never

961
00:47:11,079 --> 00:47:13,239
going to drink again. But my point that I was

962
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:16,960
going to make is that for a long time, it

963
00:47:17,119 --> 00:47:20,719
was very difficult to do these like TV appearances, and

964
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:26,320
because I would get a lot of like shitty comments online,

965
00:47:26,519 --> 00:47:28,760
or you know, when an article about me came out

966
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:30,599
in the New York Times, all the comments were like

967
00:47:30,639 --> 00:47:32,840
she should have her kids taken away. And I feel

968
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:35,599
like we've made a lot of progress in being able

969
00:47:35,639 --> 00:47:40,719
to share stories of the normalcy of just being a

970
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:45,159
sober person in the world and talking about some of

971
00:47:45,199 --> 00:47:48,000
the things that you used to only hear in meetings.

972
00:47:48,519 --> 00:47:51,159
I think have become accessible to regular people.

973
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:52,760
Speaker 4: Being able to listen to.

974
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,840
Speaker 1: A podcast like this and hearing what people's lives were

975
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,199
really like and hearing you talk about being a single

976
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:02,280
mom and drinking and having your son put gumballs in

977
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:04,719
your wine. That used to be the kind of thing

978
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:07,199
that could just fill people with shame and not want

979
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:08,119
to ever share.

980
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:08,559
Speaker 4: Something like that.

981
00:48:08,599 --> 00:48:13,159
Speaker 1: And I think that now it's become not cool, I

982
00:48:13,199 --> 00:48:16,360
don't want to say that, but normalized, so that people

983
00:48:16,679 --> 00:48:18,840
who maybe struggle but are like I don't know if

984
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:20,639
I'm I don't know if I want to do all that,

985
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:25,079
like get sober, but they can start to hear themselves,

986
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:26,840
you know what I'm saying, without having to go to

987
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:31,800
rehab or make this giant leap into going to twelve

988
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,760
step meetings. If they don't think that's for them, don't

989
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:36,920
you think that this is kind of a very good

990
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:40,599
thing that I do grow many many more stories about

991
00:48:40,639 --> 00:48:41,679
people being sober.

992
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:44,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, And as we rap, like, I will just say,

993
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:48,280
like I believe the type rises all boats and there's

994
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:50,800
a path for everyone.

995
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,119
Speaker 3: Some are more well traveled than others.

996
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:57,639
Speaker 2: But I think that you said something earlier on that

997
00:48:57,760 --> 00:48:59,199
is the key point of all of it.

998
00:48:59,199 --> 00:49:02,199
Speaker 3: It's your intention and what are your intentions?

999
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 2: And then there is a medical side of it, like

1000
00:49:05,519 --> 00:49:10,119
some of us need medical help, right because in some

1001
00:49:10,199 --> 00:49:13,880
cases quitting cold Turkey can be very dangerous. So uh,

1002
00:49:14,079 --> 00:49:16,599
but I think that people are having conversations about it,

1003
00:49:16,679 --> 00:49:19,320
and people are rethinking drinking in the workplace. I've done

1004
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:23,159
a lot of speaking around that, especially for people managers,

1005
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,960
like if you're going to do team building culture building

1006
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:30,440
activities and alcohol is involved, that's fine, but don't make

1007
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:33,519
it the only activity and make sure there are other options, right,

1008
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,519
And I'm not talking water and coffee and diet coke,

1009
00:49:36,559 --> 00:49:39,599
although I will drink a dit coke every time. Options

1010
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,079
you know, they need to also have a pretty glass,

1011
00:49:42,159 --> 00:49:43,840
you know, don't make them feel like they're sitting at

1012
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:44,480
the kids table.

1013
00:49:45,159 --> 00:49:47,960
Speaker 3: So yeah, I like that.

1014
00:49:49,519 --> 00:49:54,280
Speaker 1: I think that's it's important work, and I think that

1015
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,679
being willing I'm just because I'm interested in the fact

1016
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:00,840
that you started out being like I sh shouldn't be

1017
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:06,159
public about this because anonymity for me, I don't.

1018
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:07,119
Speaker 4: I don't believe.

1019
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 1: I don't believe in that, and kind of didn't from

1020
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:12,159
the beginning. Even though I got a lot of pushback

1021
00:50:12,199 --> 00:50:15,039
when I was on TV, I wasn't. I certainly wasn't

1022
00:50:15,079 --> 00:50:19,039
saying anything about how I did it.

1023
00:50:19,559 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 4: But I don't. I don't see anything wrong.

1024
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:25,519
Speaker 1: I see everything right in being willing to share your

1025
00:50:25,559 --> 00:50:30,599
story in public because that's the only thing that makes

1026
00:50:30,639 --> 00:50:33,559
it accessible to other people. They have to see that

1027
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:40,000
alcoholism isn't just you know, people drinking, you know, out

1028
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:43,280
of a brown paper bag under a bridge somewhere. That

1029
00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:47,400
alcoholism is tons of people that you know that maybe

1030
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:49,719
don't tell you that they're sober, but that if you

1031
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:51,800
were at a party with them and they were. You

1032
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:54,119
know what I'm saying, like so many of our friends.

1033
00:50:54,519 --> 00:50:57,519
I mean, you and I are sober, so we probably

1034
00:50:57,559 --> 00:50:58,079
talk about it.

1035
00:50:58,119 --> 00:51:00,599
Speaker 4: We're more open about it. And I think.

1036
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:03,679
Speaker 1: That somehow I meet a lot of people that don't drink.

1037
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:06,760
Speaker 3: Well, here's the thing, because.

1038
00:51:06,559 --> 00:51:08,800
Speaker 4: I'll say, everybody's talking about it's over.

1039
00:51:09,559 --> 00:51:11,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, we think everybody's talking about it because we're talking

1040
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:14,079
about it, and our algorithm is talking about it. But

1041
00:51:14,639 --> 00:51:16,519
people are not talking about it, not as much as

1042
00:51:16,519 --> 00:51:18,519
we think they are. And so that's why I think

1043
00:51:18,559 --> 00:51:20,039
we have to keep talking about it.

1044
00:51:20,159 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1045
00:51:20,599 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 2: I think it's easy to make that assumption, but then

1046
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:26,239
you have to remember that your algorithm caters to everything

1047
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:29,079
you put out and everything you consume, So it's just

1048
00:51:29,079 --> 00:51:31,039
going to give you more of that. It's going to

1049
00:51:31,159 --> 00:51:36,159
keep reinforcing. That's what the conversation is but it's but

1050
00:51:36,199 --> 00:51:39,719
it's it's not it's your algorithm. And so I do

1051
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:41,840
think more people are talking about it than that we're

1052
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:44,360
ten years ago. But I still think there's a big,

1053
00:51:44,679 --> 00:51:46,000
big hill to climb.

1054
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:50,000
Speaker 1: Well, the reason that I started this podcast is because

1055
00:51:50,039 --> 00:51:53,000
there are there are other podcasts, but they are not

1056
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:58,599
funny or you know, they're they're a little more earnest.

1057
00:51:59,039 --> 00:52:01,880
And when on my other podcasts, which is called for

1058
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:05,320
crying out loud, I talked every time I talked about

1059
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,199
being sober or sobriety. That's when I got the most

1060
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:12,679
reactions people messaging me, people saying like, oh, it really

1061
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:15,760
helped me when you're super honest about, you know, being

1062
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:18,519
sober and you're honest about what it was like before,

1063
00:52:19,159 --> 00:52:21,519
And that made me go, well, maybe there is a

1064
00:52:21,599 --> 00:52:24,639
space for just straight up like let's tell our stories.

1065
00:52:25,199 --> 00:52:27,599
And so I think it's been helpful to people to

1066
00:52:27,679 --> 00:52:32,159
have that without lecturing, you know, without saying there's only

1067
00:52:32,199 --> 00:52:32,920
one way to do it.

1068
00:52:33,639 --> 00:52:36,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree, Yeah, yeah, all.

1069
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:40,079
Speaker 1: Right, well so will you find so we go to

1070
00:52:40,119 --> 00:52:44,960
the sober Curator Tellercurator, oh shit, yeap, the sober Curator

1071
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:45,440
dot com.

1072
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:47,320
Speaker 3: We have a newsletter called the Sober Sip.

1073
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:50,519
Speaker 2: We sent it out on Mondays and Wednesdays and it

1074
00:52:50,519 --> 00:52:52,559
gives you a highlight of anything we've published in the

1075
00:52:52,639 --> 00:52:55,000
last week to keep it easy for you to make

1076
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:57,360
sure you don't have any fomo and miss out on something.

1077
00:52:58,519 --> 00:53:02,280
We're on also social media platforms because we have to be.

1078
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:05,159
Most of my traffic comes through search or comes through

1079
00:53:05,159 --> 00:53:08,320
the l MS, so but we are on social media

1080
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:11,159
because if you're not there, people think it's weird, but

1081
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:14,480
it's not really where our audience comes from. But we

1082
00:53:14,519 --> 00:53:18,000
do distribute all of our content through those channels. And

1083
00:53:18,039 --> 00:53:21,159
then yes, we have a group podcast. Season two just started.

1084
00:53:21,159 --> 00:53:26,039
We're on YouTube, Apple, Spotify, iHeart all the places, but

1085
00:53:26,119 --> 00:53:27,000
come hang out with us.

1086
00:53:27,039 --> 00:53:29,239
Speaker 3: We're up to some fun things.

1087
00:53:29,199 --> 00:53:32,639
Speaker 1: Okay, everybody. You'll find all the links in the description

1088
00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:35,119
of the episode. I would just thank you so much, Elise.

1089
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:37,519
It's it's it's been a great episode. It's been great

1090
00:53:37,559 --> 00:53:38,039
talking to you.

1091
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:40,400
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me.

1092
00:53:40,679 --> 00:53:44,039
Speaker 4: It's done in lind