Speaker 1: We're all owned by the Syndicate, Body and Soul or
should I just say bunny?
Speaker 2: Hello, Filthy movie lovers, Something weirdohs and Anti Criterion Bros.
To the twenty ninth episode of The Since Syndicate, the
only sexploitation podcast that has the support of both Guy
Madden and Sean Baker. My name is Gentry Austen, writer
and researcher, and I'm here with my co host, adult
film historian Casey Scott, and in the first episode of
the new year, we are taking a journey to the
dark and perilous depths. That is your questions. If you've
been listening week to week, you've probably heard our pleas
for your listener questions, and thankfully we did receive a
few more than zero.
Speaker 3: That's good.
Speaker 2: So thank you everyone who sent us some questions to answer.
And it only seems right that we bring on our
Canadian correspondent, Alex DeSanto to join us for this occasion.
So before we get into the queues and the a's,
let's run through the past couple weeks of sexploitation news
and updates. I think we can kick it off with
our long teased announcement, which is AGFA is putting out
the They officially announced the Herschel Gordon Lewis Collection. I
don't know number one. I guess we can call it,
which is The Girl, the Body and the Pill and
Blast Off Girls. I want to say Blackstaff Boys, because
it's mostly boys in that movie. But we are involved
with that release to a large extent, right casey.
Speaker 4: Almost almost a supplement producers extent, almost like almost like
we we produce everything except for except for the troiler
inclusion and the short. Everything else and the transfers, every
of all the supplements are us, for better or worse.
I'm excited to see how it turns out though.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So we got a commentary track on the Pill, which
was I think when the kickstarter went I think one
of the one of the options was to get a
screener of the Pill. So I don't know if they've
done any work on it since then or if it's
the same. Yeah, so we'll see how it looks when
we get our when we get our copies. But yeah,
we did a commentary on the Girl of the Body
of the Pill. We weren't able to get a commentary
on the blast Staff Girls in time, but I did
write a short essay about garage rock, so check that out.
And also we got Johanna in there to write a
piece on Bunny Down, which I'm really excited to read.
Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 5: I think most important is we got Nancy Lee Noble, Yes,
which I was surprised there was not more fanfare about that,
considering she's never done an interview you ever, not even
for the Herschel Gordon Lewis documentary that was made.
Speaker 4: They didn't even interview her for that. So this is
the first time she's ever gone on record about working
on with Herschel on three movies. And she also talks
about her California work too, So yeah, she I won't
say that she has the strongest memory all around her
entire career, but it's very interesting to learn about like
how she got her start on stage, how she went
out to California, and how she got involved with like
Jackson County Jail that pat post them from. She devils
on Wheels had a secret career that I will save
for you to discover that I was very surprised by. Yeah,
there's just a lot of good stuff in that interview,
and I'm excited to see how they put it all
together because we sent Gentry, sent them all the raw
footage and said go with God.
Speaker 2: And yeah, excited. I think we sent the raw audio.
Speaker 4: Oh there was no video, that's right because we because
we when we interviewed her, we did it under the
stipulation that would be audio essentially. So yeah, yeah, but
she still looks grateful, She still has the same smile,
she still looks good. Yeah, still a great personality.
Speaker 2: Her voice is the you know sometimes voices change, but
recognize that baby dollboys, Yes, yeah.
Speaker 4: She's She's a real sweetheart. And I actually I need
to email them because we interviewed her with her husband,
who they have their own podcasts, and I'm gonna let
them know this is coming out and then they can
get copies hopefully.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, that'd be good too. Oh what do you
got for us, Casey?
Speaker 4: What do I have for us? Well, so, so I
didn't it's something that I will say, like, well, first
of all, happy holidays, guys, we survived the holidays. Merry Christmas,
Happy New Year. Hounded by children day, Yes, I was surrounded. Yes,
I got teased by our two in the Pinku buddies
because they saw that I was going. I went through
one of I went through Dakota's list of like gay
Pink EU and was looking through and reading reviews and
liking them all. She's getting letter box notification of me
liking stuff one after the other, and he was like,
are you just reading all my reviews? I was like,
I'm sitting surrounded by by toddlers and I am very
disconnected from sex film and sleeves right now, and this
is my way to stay connected is reading your thoughts
on these crazy gay PINKU films. So, but before I
came down to Virginia to hang out with my family,
I got in the mail which I raved about on Instagram.
Ultra Flush Archives, which is run by a friend of mine,
Mark Murray, who I've been friends with forever and I
think now is probably known for being the like the
pre eminent Rudy Ray Moore history and he wrote an
incredible book about the guy. He did commentaries on all
of those when Vinigersinder put those out, and Ultra Flush
Archives is kind of his baby now where he's working
on collecting and restoring eight millimeter films which you know,
love Love Melosing and Vineigerson's Room. They don't touch eight
millimeter for reasons, I'll leave it at that. And so
he's doing the lord's work, you know. I think if
you are if you like sex cinema, softcore or hardcore,
I think if you're not following them, definitely do so.
And their release, they released a limited edition blu ray
of of Loops by Leslie Winston, who's kind of a
very underrated loops performer. She was just inducted into the
AVN Hall of Fame, and she does a commentary over
the loops talking about her career and what she remembers
about the specific shoots, the photographers and the producers have
made them, which is really incredible because there's not a
lot of documentation about who did loops. So it's a
limited edition. I think it's only five hundred copies, and
so I would highly recommend that you order your copy
because I loved it. The loops look great. And this
year he's going to be putting out more hypothetically with
people like Ronda, Joe Petty, maybe Serena, maybe some other
people doing commentaries and collections of their work. And he
also has a ton of gay loops we've been talking
about too. So if I can talk him into doing
some gay loops as well. That would be great. So
he really is kind of like the savior of eight
millimeter And there's also a software eight millimeter loop on
that collection too, so tying into sexploitation. He has a
lot of loops of all different kinds, and he's actually
running out of storage, so I don't know how to
I don't even know how he gets the stuff, and
I don't know how he's I don't know how where
it's going to get.
Speaker 2: But does he running out of storage? They're eight milimeters,
they're small.
Speaker 3: I just won't say he has that much.
Speaker 4: He has that much. He is that much and because
and he on the commentary he said that there's a
loop that he was looking for of Leslie's with another actress.
He has three copies of it all three times he's
bought a copy. Every single box that has arrived has
the wrong loop in it, so he still doesn't have it.
That's how many loops he has. He has multiple copies
of loops and in some cases they aren't even the
right loop. So I mean he is really he's collecting
all of this stuff and take care of it. So
I'm really excited for the next releases. Loops deserve love
to folks, not just the nar It's not the narrative
stuff is nice to talk about, and it's film cinema,
you know, but loops are also just like it's nice
good if they're well done, nice meat and potatoes. You know, sex,
and there's nothing wrong with sex, which I'm sure we'll
talk about a lot in this episode because I'm pretty
feisty today.
Speaker 3: Oh good, yeah, all right.
Speaker 2: Uh, Dakota and Chris they said that the commentary that
she did was really entertaining. That sounds so good.
Speaker 4: It's really good. She's fascinating anyway. I'm friends with her
on Facebook, and she she remembers a lot considering you
know what a long time ago it was. I mean,
she did she did loops when she was pregnant for
like breast milk fetishes and pregnancy fetishists, because she was like, well,
I don't have to really have sex in these I
just am pumping my milk or walking around with my
belly out whatever, you know. I'm just like very very
forward thinking, like get the bag while you can, because
you're not going to be pregnant that many.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can imagine how much it paid because of
that narrow window time too.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she did wrestling, loops, she she did all, she
did really a little bit of everything. And so this
collection is really interesting because it really shows like and
she was never uncomfortable doing any of that. She knew
what her limits were. And so yeah, it's it's a
great commentary in a really great, really really good collection.
I'm really proud of Mark for putting this out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm excited to see what else is on the horizon.
But Casey, you're getting back into programming, is this true?
Speaker 4: This is a long it's a long time just dating too.
So there is a series in New York called The
Deuce which is run by my friends Jeff and Joe,
and they both worked at film for him at one
point and now I think just Joe does Jeff as
I think at i FC Center. So they're very involved
with film in New York. And The Deuce is a
thirty five millimeter only series at Nighthawks Cinema in Brooklyn,
and I programmed for them before we showed Soscrew on
the screen where we did an Al Goldstein tribute and
then we showed the Passions of Carol on thirty five
millimeter for a Christmas screening. To watch this Christmas Porno
and Shaan Costello wrote a really nice booklet that we
were able to distribute to everybody because he wasn't able
to attend. But I they eventually put a moratorium on
Hardcore and as part of that series, and so I said, well, Alice,
you Underland I did. When did I do? Soscrew in
the screen? I think Screw on the Screen was twenty thirteen,
and then I think Passions of Karen might have been
twenty fifteen, I think, But yeah, it was a while ago.
So it's been a while since I've been involved with programming.
But I've been suggesting Alix in Wonderland for a long time,
specifically because while people know that it exists in a
hardcore version, the software version is the way to go,
Like that was the way it was originally shot. The
hardcore footage was shot at the time of production, but
not it's bad it was. It was emitted from the
film because it's not good. Yeah, and it was only
reissued in its hardcore version. Once Christine de bell the
Star became famous because Bill Osco is a trash person
and because he was dating her, at the time. That's
the ultimate revenge porn is having hardcore footage of your
ex girlfriend and then wide releasing it to the rest
of the world when she becomes famous. Bill Osco is trash. Yeah,
bill Oscar has been trash. So the Deuce I've been
begging them to put this on and they really they
contacted me out of the Bluestet. I think they said,
we want to do Alice in Wonderland for February for
Valentine's Day, and so it is the best. I think
it's the best sex musical film. Well, Cinderella is really
good too, but I do like this one a lot.
So I'm gonna be hosting that. I'll be doing a
presentation before the movie, which is like a PowerPoint talking
about the different cast members and their connections to Broadway
and dance and music. Thirty five millimeter and it's at
Nighthawk in Brooklyn on Thursday, February twelfth at nine thirty.
And I will say, tickets to The Deuce sell out
well in advance, so and I only get one comp
ticket from myself, So before you ask me for cops,
unfortunately I cannot accommodate. So if you want to come
right now. I already checked the website. It's not up
yet on today, January third, but keep checking. And yeah,
this it's rarely. It's not gonna be screened again, like
people aren't screening the seventy six Alice in Wonderland on
a regular basis. So this is when you're gonna want
to see with an audience. The music is great, it's funny,
it has a great cast. It has Terry Hawk, Christine
de Belle, Juliet Graham, Nancy Dare, a lot of the
great New York hardcore people from like the seventy six era.
So yeah, it's it's gonna be a good time and
I'm really excited to be to be a part of
that screening for sure. Did you say they're screening the hardcore,
the softcore, the softcore because they have an non hardcore
policy now for the Deuce, which I think is fine
when you're when it's a dinner theater kind of situation,
there is something about eating food while there on the screen.
Speaker 2: Is why I don't like Barbara broadcast.
Speaker 4: I love Barber broadcasts, but the mixing of that was
and actually I think that movie is very smart and
it doesn't include that much food with it. It's not
like violation of Claudia with like the whole spaghetti scene
that makes me want to throw up like that. I
don't like food and sex. So Barbara Broadcast is a
lot smarter, thankfully. But yeah, so The Deuce, you know,
Joe and Jeff were kind of like, h like, we
enjoyed those two movies, but I think it's hard for
it to make it work with the vibes that we're
going for for the series, and it's like, it's fine,
there's plenty of softcore that we could do. I really
want to show the cheerleaders, so I've been trying to
get them to I've been and I'd love to do
an episode about the cheerleaders too, because I love that
movie to death. So yeah, hopefully the start of a
continuing softcore, yeah exploitation connection that The Deuce in Brooklyn again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exciting. Yeah. You also got the new Secret
Reviver number one. Give us a quick review update. It's
very quick. I did review it on Letterbox.
Speaker 4: I really enjoyed it because it's my kind of regional trash,
you know, it's not sexploitation, and it's rated R and
I kind of forget why there is a rape scene
right with some nudity, very awkward nudity to you, by
the way, I really enjoyed it. The package is very
interesting for anyone who hasn't picked up the Reviver series,
and you might have seen it online already. The packaging
doesn't even tell you what the movies are. You pop
the disk in and it just starts and you're like, oh, wait,
this can't be right, so you hit menu. The menu
doesn't tell you what the movies are. The menu tell
you what the elements used are, so it'll be like
thirty five millimeters threeaftcal print, a sixteen millimeter ab reversal
or whatever. You won't know what they are until you
press play and see the credits. So it's a very interesting, adventurous,
exploratory thing. I did talk to Oscar, the head archivist,
who's kind of Oscar's baby, right, this is very much
his baby, and yeah, he said that sexplotation is not
out of the question for a Reviver. He just knew
that it right at the gate. It couldn't be something
that would be potentially polarizing, which totally makes sense, and
it had to be something that has been a long
desired lost film, which is what this is. I mean,
spoiler alert, it's Boots in The Preacher, the lost J. G.
Patterson movie. Yeah, at this point everybody knows, so sexpotation
isn't out of the question. I did float the Joe
Sarno thing, and he was so funny. He was like,
I don't think that the company would let me continue
with a Reviver. I'd started with Joe Sarno, so I
was like, I know the history of Joe Sarno not
selling for some reason. The Bergman of forty second Street
is still a sore subject with a lot of people.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't start with him either for reasons.
Speaker 4: No would, I wouldn't know be there.
Speaker 2: I almost think he's too big of a name for
Reviver at this point, like the.
Speaker 4: Name doesn't sell though the name doesn't sell, Yeah, that's
the thing, So too big.
Speaker 2: Of a name, but it also doesn't sell. So it's like, uh, it's.
Speaker 4: It's a big name, but it's a name that's kind
of that's not doesn't guarantee sales. But he said it's
not out of the question because they have so much stuff.
I mean, they really do. They have a lot of
and a lot of like single materials, like a third
of a milliary theatrical print. Well, they're not gonna you know, uh,
they're not gonna put that out of a four K
or something.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, I'm thinking back to all the stuff
that was on that Lost Picture show, and like a
couple you know, there was really like goofy stuff on
there that I could see. Is more what they're probably
gonna do with Reviver. I don't know, we'll see, Alex.
Have you seen this Boots in the Preacher?
Speaker 3: No, because I did. I don't pay into mystery stuff.
That's my final thing I remember.
Speaker 4: I will not be titillated by mystery.
Speaker 3: No, that's economy, no thing you No, No, I have no.
The only thing I've seen a boostive Preacher was the
original eBay auction that this print came from, like two
years ago or so. I remember frantically texting people at
VS like that's are you getting this? Please don't be
your buying us, blah blah blah blah. But I have
not actually seen it. I didn't know it was that
sought after. I know people were wanted it this much.
I don't know. I thought it was a more of
a niche thing. No, I thought it was like the
Brady Grinter lost ones. I did not think a lot
of people were I want to see it, but I
did not think a lot of people were freaking out
about this one.
Speaker 4: Well, you know what, I think it helps because for
a long time, not just VS, a lot of other
companies were using Temple of Schlocks and dangered lists as
like a checklist for stuff that they wanted to actively
pursue to find. And so that was like an early
one on the dangered list. And when we have Chris
On in two weeks, nice little teas, we're gonna have
Chris On in a couple of weeks to talk about
a film, I want to talk about Temple Schlock because
I feel like that has led to a lot of
rediscoveries because I you know, when you're someone like Chris
who's been involved with like the Dizine scene and things
for years and you have those different connections, people pay
attention to what you say. So when he's focusing on like, well,
this movie has kind of a nice footprint in like
newspapers and stuff, so why is it not around? And
so that I think brought more attention to it. The
trailer is on the Twisted Sex thing too, And let
me tell you, the trailer is not like the movie
really is something completely different. I'm just like, this is interesting.
So I was like Patterson, you old so and so
like you there's just you know, I don't know, I
love hate relationship with him anyway.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I definitely do want to see it. Definitely
do want to see it. Or is it sold out?
Probably is the.
Speaker 4: Limited the slipcover one is, which you know how I
feel about slipcovers.
Speaker 3: It's whatever I want to Okay, But the standard.
Speaker 4: Edition is there's going to be a standard edition at
some point. But yeah, because yeah, they want they want
it to be out there, but I want a copy. Randomly,
oh yeah, you won that. They had an they had
an Instagram competition and I randomly got a message from
them actually while we were recording our Lisa episode and
they said you won, and I said, oh my god.
Speaker 2: Oscar High So yeah, our buddy slipcase Alex. He won
a copy, but he had already pre ordered it, so
he's sending me his. So hopefully I get.
Speaker 4: And if you don't like it, you can send it
to Alex. Alex even if I do like it.
Speaker 2: I might just pass it on again, just keep it
and keep it turing.
Speaker 4: That's true. That's kind of fun. Actually, it's like it's
like Traveling Pants but for perverts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, although I don't know how perverted this movie is.
Speaker 4: Case It's not that perverse. But I quite enjoyed it.
It's so crazy. It's it's really wild and crazy. It's
it's interesting because when you see its tragctory. So basically
this was his first one, and then Doctor Gore or
The Body Shop, and then Electric Chair, and each one
gets progressively better produced. Uh, the electric Chair is fantastic.
I love the Electric Chair. But yeah, this one is
very like I'm learning. It's very like directing with training wheels,
and I love I live for ship like that. So
a lot of local accents, big hair, local locations.
Speaker 3: Yeah, sex the sex.
Speaker 4: Workers are the heroes of the movie, which I love. Yeah,
it's a good it's a good time. I enjoy it.
You won't know what the hell is going on, but
I love it. And they subtitled it all too Dino
shout out to Dino subtitled it. Yeah.
Speaker 2: If they didn't, they would get Casey's eire.
Speaker 4: I can't watch anything without subtitles. Guys. Sorry, Like, there's
so much sh it on to me that doesn't have subtitles.
I'm like, guys, I need to be able to I
need subtitles.
Speaker 2: It's about the threatened legal action onto I did.
Speaker 4: Actually, I think I was like, I posted a thing
on my Instagram. I was like, isn't that legal that
if you're gonna have something that's broadcast quote unquote, it
has to legally have captions on it. I think they're
getting around it because it's technically not broadcast.
Speaker 3: But yeah, maybe I guess it depends your aggregator too. Yeah,
to be should naturally do that. That's a normal thing
these aggregators and stuff. They're like, it's a requirement, you
have to include a file and file.
Speaker 4: And there's a lot of like Italian Crime with no
subtitles on, Like all the Mark, the Mark, the Mark
movies aren't there on there, they have no subtitles. I'm
just like, I want to watch these, but I like,
I like the subtitles. I don't know what to tell you.
I've been like that since the high school. For my
entire life. Basically, I've watched captions on We.
Speaker 2: Got the Club Super Eights. Still, those guys are busy
between the Christina stuff. They are putting out those Swedish
pornal collabs with Nikatsu, which Dakota and Chris talked about
many months ago on one of their very first podcasts.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was like their second episode.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, I was talking with them like
someone needs to do a box set of these. I mean,
it's a perfect box set, and it's happening. Yeah, Club
Super Rates. I think the first two you can buy
individually now, and then the box set's coming out. I
don't know how it's working, but did you look at
it closely, Casey.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So essentially you can either buy them individually as
they come out, or if you buy the box set,
apparently because you know the way the people are slipcovers
and presentation. Apparently, if you buy the box set, all
of the spines of all of them create an image
in the box that matches with the box. So I
am pre ordering it because I want all of them, obviously,
And you looped, you very very thoughtfully looped me into
an email with the with the Cult Picks Club Super
eight guys, and of course I raved to them immediately,
and I was like, oh my god, I'm so excited,
and yeah, they're I mean, they give them the little
extras on the Swedish women in these films, which is
my real interests because they're they're women that I know
from like, you know, toward me Wickman films and Joe
Sarno films and and Thriller Cool Picture. So yeah, they're
kind of like Swedish exploitation. Also rans that I quite like,
so like ingersun Is Greta and Seduction of Inga and
I think she almost steals the movie from Marie Lily
Doll actually in that.
Speaker 2: So yeah, we definitely need to get them on the
show at some point. I think I have an idea
that I threw at them for a kind of a
fun film that in a genre we haven't really good.
Idea touched too much.
Speaker 4: All I'll say, but that's right, and the one I suggested,
they were like, well, actually, that's with our competition. I
was like, oh, well, I'm gonna go bother the competition
because I need that on Blue right now. But they
were very thoughtfully told us, well, we do have another
movie with the same actress. I was like, okay, I
need to see that. Yes, I definitely need to see that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, very good, guys. Yeah, yeah, we talk about
cult picks all the time, but really, I mean every
day they're uploading new stuff over there. I get I
can't keep up, Like there's just so much good stuff
on that note. Yeah, I watched My Third Wife George,
which is the uploaded to it is. It's a Kirwin
brother masterpiece. What can I say? Did you get your
name from you being Kirwin's I don't know. It's funny. Yeah,
it's not four and a half, Casey's funny.
Speaker 4: That's that's a rating from the from like twenty five
years ago, trying to get genuinely funny. I think Bill
Kirwin is actually really funny in it, and he is, yeah,
he is.
Speaker 2: And there's a lot of girls in there didn't recognize.
I don't know if they were just one off Miami
Florida girls. But well, I guess that's the question here, Casey. Yeah,
you wanted to do a little what are we watch?
Which I'm always has it. I told the guys, like
I always to do these because I hate podcasts where
they're like, hey, yeah, this episode, we're gonna talk about
this movie. But here's fifty minutes of us talking about
what we've been watching for the last week. But I
think it works in this case because we're not focusing
on a movie. We're gonna do a Q and A
in one second here, yes.
Speaker 4: But also speaking of which, we're kind of going to
be doing that at another show anyway, which is disconnected,
which we're doing that show.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're jumping all over our news and updates here,
but yeah, I be a disconnected show. Next Thursday, Yes,
next Thursday, January eighth. I think that's eight, that's eight
thirty Central Time. So for you, Casey, that's nine thirty.
Be a late night for you.
Speaker 4: That's great, that's fine. I work from home the next day.
I will be nice and toasty. I'll have a nice
cocktail and have fun.
Speaker 2: All right, good Alex, you better be in the chat
rooting us on.
Speaker 3: Okay, realized speaking for Gentry, getting Nippit zapping out there.
Speaker 4: Please I please, yes, get more voices out there so
the Genter doesn't sound like a limited.
Speaker 3: I'm going to create five different accounts, and every single
one of them every other minute. Can it be like
over Yeah, miss infits are each going to have your
little account and Infit one, Infit two, Nfit three.
Speaker 4: Listen, I love miss an Infant. I mean, we could
just do a commentary for the patreons just to get
it out of our system and then when they put
it out they can just use it.
Speaker 2: No, I'm saving it. I'm bottling it all up for you.
Speaker 4: I mean, because we've talked about so many of the
actresses in that we are, we have so much to
talk about if we do the commentary for that, So yeah,
it'll happen.
Speaker 2: It's I'm like I said, I'm manifesting this, Miss Niff.
Speaker 3: Anyone wants to contribute to the GoFundMe for gentries camping
supplies to hang out outside of EGGFA headquarters with a
giant sign There will be linked below. He is currently
on day ten of Camp Bear until they released it,
Miss and it fits happened. This is a green screen
behind him. Actually he's nine a nice bedroom at all.
Speaker 4: Outside well, Lisa said that at the Xander Syndrome's restoration
that looks better and I was like, where did you
see that? Is it all?
Speaker 3: It was a gratis down remember way back when the
Exploitation dot TV, Yes, way back when.
Speaker 4: And now that they have the partnership with Warner Brothers.
They want to forget all about the exploitation dot TV days.
Won't forget. I won't forget.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's how I first saw things like flash Pot.
Yeah yeah, way back when. So yeah, no, no, their
print skin, I well, I can't say because I've never
seen the Something Weird one because I had no reason to.
But it definitely had more emulsion than scratches. If that's
if the Something Weird print is the opposite.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 4: Also, their transfer process was I think really different than
vinegars and the transfer process.
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's a tape.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, I think it would look better.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, so yeah it was. It was a print.
It was watchable.
Speaker 4: Mm hm.
Speaker 3: That's glad to say it makes a good extra and something.
Speaker 2: No, no, it's just it's it's the main feature.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, you don't want it as a bonus, you
want it to be the main feature. I don't think lessa.
I'm a big fan of that movie. I love that movie.
I loved it when I first saw it. I don't
make any apologies for loving misnefits happened. I think I
have so much fun with it. Save it and most
of these sex movies when they try to be funny
or not funny, I find it genuinely amusing. You know,
everyone's having a blast. All the cast is having a blast,
Like you.
Speaker 2: Know, yeah, what are we watching here? I'll just cruise through. Well,
I don't really have much else to say. I mean,
i feel like I'm kind of in my like Sam
Degan mode here, where everything I'm related to, like something
I'm working on or something I'm not ready to talk
about yet. So I'm going to kick it to you, Casey.
Speaker 4: Well, you know we've we've done a lot. We've already
mentioned a lot about Two in the Pink EU. I
think for our sister podcasts at this point, are they
not our brother podcast? We have our own little chat
with them, so yeah, I mean they're kind of they're
kind of like our counterparts. We talk to them all
the time. But I have them to blame for my
new obsession. Who is Arena may I? Who is the
Barbara Stanwick of Roman Porno? So I watched two of
our movies back to back. I watched zoom In, Rape
Apartments and Sex Hunter, two completely different performances, and I'm
obsessed with this woman. So I'm begging for someone to
put out an Arenamy eyebox set if possible before I
left for holidays. The holidays, I also finally got my
Black Manual box set finally, and I made a little
bit of head I only watched the first two movies
before I had to leave, so I feel very separated
from my queen right now, and I cannot wait to
return and bask in the glory of Laura gems Er.
Speaker 2: I can't wait for you to get to Black Velvet again.
I know you've seen it.
Speaker 4: If I think revisiting it, I might like it more.
The soundtrack is is incredible. Soundtrack is absolutely incredible. But yeah,
I just any movie with Laura gems are like forced
to pose next to dead dogs. I feel like is
misusing my queen a little bit, So you know I
will rewatch it.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 4: For a long time, I was the only IMDb review
of that because I rented it as Emmanuel in Egypt
on VHS from my old Mama Pop Story days and
I think I raced it over the coles. I believe
I deleted that review, but I hated it, yeah at
that point, But I think I like it again and
it has your queen and your queen and Annie Bell.
It's like the meeting of our queen's in one movie.
Speaker 2: It's it's tagem Manuel meets Black Emmanuel. Yep. So, Alex,
what have you been doing?
Speaker 3: I have not been watching a lot recently.
Speaker 4: What are you talking about? Are you into movies?
Speaker 2: Them all you see?
Speaker 4: I know you read like you reazy papers acts, but
do you watch movies? I forget?
Speaker 3: Why do you think I'm here? Okay, oh my god,
what are you talking about? What are these guys doing?
Speaker 4: Audience?
Speaker 3: I don't know what they're going on about. I don't know.
It's because I don't log things on letterbox, is probably
what they're going on about. I don't always log theirs.
Speaker 6: I know.
Speaker 3: I haven't reading a lot more recently than I have
been watching. But what I've been watching is shit. I've
been watching mostly nudies because these guys know. But to
the everyone else listening, I've taken upon myself to see
every available American produced sixty sexploitation film, and I am
close to I am somewhat close to being done.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: The only problem okay, oh oh my god, no, no, no, no, no,
I mean those district picks. H that handful was a
really big lifesaver. Do not get me wrong. I'm even
closer now. That was like my big Oh god, I
don't know how I'm gonna get all these because of
how obscure so many of those were. But before then
and now, because I like Marathon almost solved those. As
you do know, don't watch eight sex films in the day, folks,
I don't recommend it.
Speaker 4: No, I don't either, No.
Speaker 3: No, I don't. I don't. But you know, when you
start on a high like Grand Places three films, I mean.
Speaker 4: Only you can only go down from there.
Speaker 3: I felt like I was like rid Away and I
was like, oh this is heavenly, Oh my god, after
these nudies. So unfortunately it's been mostly nudies now days
because I'm almost out of everything. If someone has a
rip of sexperts, please send it to me. I'm desperate.
No want Touched by Temptation nineteen sixty five, one that.
Speaker 4: After one that retros Deduction put out.
Speaker 3: Yes, oh you know, I don't very few. Yeah, I don't.
Because I saw that.
Speaker 4: I sold that DVD before I burnt, before I ripped
a copy for myself. When I was destitute, I was
selling everything to make money, and I don't have that anymore.
That version, though, has inserts that are not part of
the original film, because that's what Razo does.
Speaker 3: That's something to Yeah, that's also the only existing version.
So yeah, folks, I am stuck watching almost all nudies
because that's all I really have left. I at least
try and watch them when I'm like also doing something else,
not painful attention to them. But even then it's been
really hard. So like recently it's been Adam and Adam
and six eves. Yeah, knew its life. Occasually, I've done
most of the Mayhons, Like at least one of the
Bunny Yegger ones was a nice break. But even then, sure,
that's still a bit sticking.
Speaker 4: To sixties though, right, you're not you're not doing seventies.
Speaker 2: No, you're doing like pre sixty five like new Yeah
those kind.
Speaker 3: Of uh yes, yes. Then then occasional stuff like I
just saw finally Girls Girls Come to Yeah, that weird,
that weird hybrid. It's only as interesting as it is
because of because it's a hybrid. And yeah, b it's
besides the Row Ones, the second film to show full frontal, so.
Speaker 2: You're getting like a lot of burless skin there too,
probably and.
Speaker 3: New Yeah, burlesque is more so fifties and forties though,
you know the newdies.
Speaker 2: I'm talking like the Naughty New York you know, stuff
like that, like.
Speaker 4: The Intrader one. Even then the albums that other version two.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I still see that one. I haven't seen that
one yet, but that's about the only birl one I
can think of.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess not in New York. It is like
lately yeah fifty nine, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: Like a Lull to Buy a bear Land has some
burlesque in it. But that's another weird that's a weird
mix of like three different genres in one movie.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, they see that one. See also, these are
these blending somebody you might remember off the top of
the head. And whether I've seen this one or not,
I'll have to go back.
Speaker 4: You might remember because it's a triptych of stories. There's
a Newdist can't it's a Newdist camp movie, a Newdi
Cutie and a burlesque movie in one movie. It's like, yeah,
it's three different stories.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, I don't think I've seen that one yet.
I think that's one of the yeah, one, I think
you might like I left over. Okay, I'm looking forward
to that one then, at least because so yeah, folks,
besides that, like the last, it's either it's either that
or just like taking comfort food breaks with things I've
recently rediscovered. I really like like Room and Broad and
remember on films like that. I've seen that like three
or four times now. Really it's just I just put
on in the back. Oh, you just got I'm so
happy with Rumen Broad. You guys have no idea is
this really good?
Speaker 4: Because it's really good.
Speaker 3: Don't be too don't get me started. Yeah, Casey, Casey
really got me on this whole Grand Place thing.
Speaker 4: Well, now you know why I was mad when Laura
on IMDb raked me over the coals from my liner note.
I did the liner notes for Room and Broad and Procure,
and he raked me over the coles by name, saying
that I was an idiot for saying Grand Place was
any kind of good filmmaker. And I'm just like, his
stuff is great compared to everything else. Dister picks alge
of the Pope.
Speaker 3: I mean, let me pref for this for people out there.
I think I've already said to one or two of
you out there. Rubin Broad is a script written by
Joe Sarno that was never produced by Joe Sarno. So
even if it was directed, like shit, it is verbatim
a Joe Sarno story. So even if grand Place had
no idea what he was doing, that would have been
utterly fantastic right off the bat. Anyone who wants the
film version of the Joe Sarno script in the ben
how to make it release? That is roomin Broad.
Speaker 1: That is what that is.
Speaker 3: It was made into a movie. It's a very good movie.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because even the final shot. Because I finally got
that release and I read the script and I checked
the final shot, I was like, even the final shot
is laid out visually the way that it placed erected
it in that script.
Speaker 3: It's really it's really quite The second time I watched it,
I had the script in my hand and like, the
lines are verbatim. They are, Yeah, the lines are verbatim.
The framing is different for quite a bit of it.
It does not follow Joe Sarno's framing as it's laid
out in that thing. But no complaints. It's really good
across the board. Oh my god. So yeah, at least
I've also found things like that, thanks the people, like
thanks the Casey anything.
Speaker 4: Happy to help? Yes, that I finally invested in a
new one, and I was like, let me get get cracking.
I'm all of these guys movies.
Speaker 3: Yes, I know. I realized ante that one too, because
I don't think you do you do you have sex Circus?
I have that one.
Speaker 4: I do want that, Okay, I do, Yeah, I do
have sex Circus.
Speaker 3: Okay, requests fine recently, No, really, it's only fine.
Speaker 4: I think I wrote the liners for that too, didn't
I put? I put all my liners on letterbox that
I had access to without actually reviewing the movie because
I need to rewatch them all.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I remember liking it isn't it's Tommy gets again right,
the only one of his the same guy for Brenda.
I like Brenda enough, and I love marriage marriage Dropouts.
I also like to with the surprise gay stuff in that,
like I've done that one yet, so okay, you need
to get going that one. That one quite a bit.
I like Marriage Dropouts. I think that's probably my favorite
of his. Actually, Oh, I find Sex Circus to be
his best to the point that like, did tom think
I had to really like it?
Speaker 3: Kind of feel like all Tommy's things feel like like
one or two lights and then haphazard like sex Circus
has thought behind it, at least at least with some
of the weird inventiveness that happens in that thing, like
the scary clown and the lion tamer. Guy, I'm the
weird man who's making out with a window and yeah no, no,
sex Circus ismer grip. Sex Circus is like love Captive
in its weirdness. Well, I really agree love love captive,
so it's even better love captive weird love. But it's
like Uda Erickson going like I like making people eat
leather boots while like while like punk rock plays in
the background, and she's in this like weird like bring back.
Speaker 4: Don't I remember the whip? I don't know.
Speaker 3: It's so crazy good?
Speaker 4: Yeah to me?
Speaker 3: Yeah no, no, he's around being like I love to
dominate women. I'm gonna party where I dominate women.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I need to.
Speaker 3: It's so good.
Speaker 2: Okay, we'll bug you when you get home to dig
that out casey.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll buy pass my, I'll keep Laura gems are
on ice fellingry.
Speaker 3: Once no sex or because this is what matters. I
need to see that clown again.
Speaker 2: All right, should we get some questions going here? Guys? Yes,
all right, we got some questions. We got a few
directed to Casey, we got one big one for Alex.
But we're just gonna kind of bounce around with with
some abandoned let's.
Speaker 4: Just start with it. Are you are you gonna be
the quiz master?
Speaker 2: Sure, I'll be the quick master.
Speaker 4: Okay, that sounds good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I guess this is a good broad one
to start with. What are y'all's dream something weird video
Blu ray upgrades? I think we've kind of touched on
this a bit, but here's the official question. Let's just
I mean, don't get too crazy. Just give us like
one or two maybe that you're dying for.
Speaker 4: Well, my first thought immediately is like, do you mean
stuff that has come out on DVD already or do
you mean stuff that has been languishing in the library
and has never been out out of a DVDR. Let's
go with like, let's stick with the DVDs. I think
it's easier because the library is and so much other
stuff like mattin a Wives is way overdue for any
kind of official release. I love Mattinee Wives. So Miss
Niphant's happened. Well, and that's another one. Miss Nippit's happened
never got an official release. It was only DVDR. So
obviously kiss Me Quick, obviously kiss Me Quick, dying for
kiss Me Quick restoration with nice pop not nice pop
in colors, boy box, it was just so funny ones
on a lot of novack. Basically, well, we've we've said
on here multiple times Carmen released the hostages. You know,
this feels like a hostage negotiation situation at this point,
Like Carmen, I don't know what you want. I don't
know what you need, but lay out your demands and
we will see what we can do. But at this
point it feels like a hostile hostage situation.
Speaker 6: Let's see, actually sort of off, Mike, we did yes
and uh, just a lot of a lot of a
lot of a lot of confirmations.
Speaker 4: Basically, let's see moving away from novacks, Alex, you have
one on your on the top of your head.
Speaker 3: Oh I three, yeah, I three? Uh rat the number
one would be aroused. Oh yeah, that's percent killed. Absolutely
aroused hands down my favorites exploitation films, and then The
Animal another one my absolute favorites.
Speaker 2: That one I think is really really would benefit because
what we have now is pretty dark. There's some really
dark scenes that I think that they could.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that film is very shadowy.
Speaker 2: I know, like you always say, like sometimes sometimes that
cinematography is hard to like quote unquote like correct. It's
like really strong Sarno like blacks. But yeah, as we
saw with.
Speaker 3: The oddly enough that transfer compared to something like passionate
hot hollows still looked pretty good. Whatever the print was,
that was a pretty decent That was a pretty decent
print of the Animal. So I do have faith in
that one because I did have some pretty like good
like grays and mid tones.
Speaker 1: With that.
Speaker 3: So I still think you could pull a decent image
out of the one element. Fingers crossed that maybe more
have shown up or something like that. On my end,
no negatives, I don't think there's a negative for that one.
We would have already gotten it likely if it had
also shown up with those other ones too, that wouldn't
still be saying around. I think it's still staying around,
probably because of elements because I can't see why Severn
wouldn't have put it out if a NAG was available.
So I think it's probably an element situation with that one.
Some of those elements had faded since there's something weird
days in particular, you know, like Hollywood's World of Flesh
was gone unfortunately. Surf tied seventy seven. I think that's
gone unfortunately as well too.
Speaker 4: I like that one really, No, no, we don't need them.
Speaker 3: Oh I like that one, okay, but then Fountain, Yes.
Speaker 4: That's another one I'm like, like an upgrade for but
yeah SURFTI said, no, we don't need serf title.
Speaker 3: Lucky, the neg for a house on Bear Mountain exists.
I'm surprised that one. But yeah, the neck for that's around. Hey,
hopefully it has been restored, so fingers crossed. It looks good.
It looks really good. And now third one is Sock
It to Me Baby.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, another one that is.
Speaker 3: Musical, just for the music alone too, because there is
preprint elements. I'll say that, so like we had a
slightly splicy print of that, we have better elements now,
so I would really like to see that one. I
think that's also make for any favorite, and that was
see if memory serves correct for one of the very
first order forms, one of the very first exploitation titles.
That's something weird put out, like with syn Syndicate. Yes,
films like that too.
Speaker 2: That's crazy because I mean, I don't think there's any
Loukampa on Blue Radio, is there? No?
Speaker 4: Because three of them are with no back and then
the socking tube of baby and then come on Baby,
light my Fire also is not available, and that's kind
of it. There's not a lot. Luke Campa was not
as prolific as one would think, but no, he did a.
Speaker 3: Bunch of producing for other he didn't do. He also
produced a bunch of other ones, Master Beater Private Relations,
Master Beers Lost, Private Relations. He produced Sugar Daddy. I
think he produced that one.
Speaker 4: So Bel Crane stuff, Larry Crane stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he does that artist Studio Secrets, which has.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that really odd first one that it was
Pratt's strange, but also has Larry Hunter in one of
his best roles as well too, Larry Hunter's on Fire
and All Cylinders and that oh my god, yeah he is. Yeah,
that's his movie. I love the music and that I'm
still trying to find the band who did some of
that those original songs. I would kill that some of those.
But yeah, I'm just going to keep it to those
three because yeah, I could keep going, we could all
keep going on.
Speaker 4: And well, one that I think other than well, I
don't know, you know, I don't think you had this
DVD because you hadn't seen much through white Doors. I
also really like Unholy Matrimony, which was the dvdco feature
of that. I like that one a lot. I like
Electronic Lover that has a great such a week's a weird,
that's a weird. Like visually, oh, smoking Flesh. Would love
a Smoking Flesh restoration. I think that is just so
fucking good.
Speaker 2: That's such a slam dunk like it is.
Speaker 4: It's so good, it's so good. Yeah. But yeah, like
Alex said, we could go on forever. But honestly, I
think my focus other than like like kiss Me Quick
or something that's some really bold color that we know
the negatives are there for. I really like nice, crisp,
black and white restorations. And that was confirmed when I
saw the the bed and how to make it restored,
and I was like, Okay, I need more black and
white exploitation on Blu ray because it just it's so
it's just I think it really shows the technical skill
of a lot of these filmmakers and how well made
it is. Well, even like Sarno, I'd love to see
flesh and lace on on Blu Ray. Yeah, I mean,
the list could go on. There's just there's so much,
so much stuff that I'd like to see upgraded. There's
so there's more stuff that I'd actually not give a
shit about upgrading. But you know, but there submission, there's
a lot of most of the titles that we've covered
on this show, Dying for All American Girl like dying
for for upgrades. But yeah, like there are little small
ones that I think are overlooked, like something like electronic lever,
smoke and flesh on. I think there's a.
Speaker 3: Probably my there's fantastic deep cuts all the way through,
Like when I just discovered with Rubin broad which almost
no one has seen, and I thought that that should
have been I think that should have been go to
Image release, like keep on going because like yeah, or
they're out of Prince and it's.
Speaker 4: Just like well no, and so we got scared their
pants off in Satan's Bed, which nobody was asking, and
then go all the way down.
Speaker 3: Into great films that were seased and desisted that were
probably never going to see, Like the Playpen was really
good as well too, like thanks to the all the
way down to the very bottom of that catalog and
there's like immediate I want.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, tuck me in. Also, I'd love an upgrade
to Tuck me In. Oh that's so good.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, tuck me in.
Speaker 4: Tuck me In is great. Anything once see the three
grilland places are room and broad for cure and anything once.
It's a great triple feature and they're all just put
them all out as a package.
Speaker 3: They're all everything once Uda Ericson and Linda Boyce being
the nastiest lesbians to each other. It's just like peeks.
Everyone doesn't seen, you know, you want to cheery Winters
as like as that low key Dominatrix.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, it's just yeah. Anyway, I guess I guess
we could keep going, but I think for the interest
of time, we have other questions.
Speaker 2: Well that's a good segue for you, Kzy, because somebody
was asking, like, you know, you have the most experienced
working with a lot of these labels, and you've kind
of seen them change their identity over time. There's a
question here do you think this is due to being
more financially successful or do you believe this is an
adaptation to the current market of film buyers, with an
example being you know Vineger Syndrome originally focusing on lost
barely seeing hardcore films or genre films, whereas what they
are now.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and now they have a forty film deal with
Warner Brothers. Yeah, And I have thought, yeah, I think
it's a little of both. I think that I think
that most people in the business would say this, I'll
speak for them. Horror is what sells. So that's why
the worst piece of shit that has a killer with
a knife in it or some kind of marketable horror
element will make money, and especially if it has a slipcover,
it will make money regardless of how good it is.
It's not anymore really about the quality of the films.
It's about how can we move this product, and so
that is very different from the mission statement of the
company as it started. I will but I will say
this as the mission statement has changed, the fact that
they have not completely thrown porn Overboard is a good thing.
But I will give Joe Rubin credit. That is all
Joe Rubin, because Joe Rubin, as many things, as as
as our relationship has ebbed and flowed over the years,
I still I love the guy. We've had our ups
and downs. He loves he genuinely loves sex films and
he wants to save them and restore them. He loves
the people that made them. He will not abandon those films,
and I think that's why we If anyone is the
heir apparent do something weird, it would be Joe Reuben
in vinegar syndrome because their mission statement, at least his
personal mission statement is similar to that. It's like, I
want to see all this stuff. I want to preserve
and save all this stuff. So so while it's I
think is my big issue is access. Yes, my big
issue with him, and I've told him this multiple times
to his face, so I'm not speaking out of school.
The issue is access. If you're going to save something,
to preserve something, if you're not making it accessible to people,
then you're basically just a hoarder with an expensive hobby.
And I don't care for that, because what's the point
of saving it if it's not going to be viewable
or shareable or accessible. So that is my own that's
my big issue with Vinegar Syndrome. And I've said this
on the podcast multiple times, but yeah, I mean, Miliciny
is not going away, and neither are any of the
sex film sub labels attached to that. Like sex films
may not necessary may not necessarily be the big money
makers that they were, and they still continue to be.
They still make money on certain titles and a lot.
I mean they they there's certain things that will always
be in print that they own, but they're not going anywhere,
which I think is a good thing to know.
Speaker 2: So I think it feels like they're just getting started.
Speaker 4: Oh, I mean they just I thought they would have
announced this already. I'm not going to say who it is,
but they have a major distribution to you with a
major one of the last surviving remaining adult film video
companies with major titles that they not I'm not talking
about Mitchell Brothers. They bought that Kit and Kaboodle. This
is a whole different company and they're going to be
announcing stuff that people are probably going to be losing
their minds over. So if they were winding it down,
they wouldn't be making these deals. So yeah, and that's
the thing that I think it is important to note
that as much as I love blesting the balls of
Joe and the Melicine guys, we have so much to
thank them for. And this isn't me kissing ask because
I do freelance for them, because there's all sorts of
shit that I say to them personally. But yeah, noo,
we're very lucky to be around now where we can
see stuff for stort from like camera negatives and put
out in nice loving packages like you know. So, yeah,
there are changes happening in terms of the mission statement,
but that still will always be a part of it,
and I think it's very important to note that. But
I think also important to note why it will be
a part of it. It's really thanks to the work
of Joe. And also Steve Morowitz is now very involved
with the company now. He's kind of like the one
man show over there at District Picks in Meliciny.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love seeing Stephen. You know, he's putting his
face out there more, which I think is good.
Speaker 4: Yes, which he didn't used to do. He used to
be much more. He used to be a lot like me,
where I didn't like to like hear my voice on anything,
and I didn't want my name on anything. And I
think he's more it's more proactive with being like, no this,
I'm involved with this. And it wasn't out of embarrassment.
It was just kind of like trying to push the
movies into people up, which is what I was always
about two.
Speaker 2: So but yeah, yeah, I mean and as far as
like vinegar syndrome, like I don't, you know, I don't.
I'm not one of those people that gets upset when
I see like garbage Pail Kids being released or something
like that because I just won't buy it. Yeah, I
just it's not for me. And if it helps fun
to other things that I will buy, then more power
to them, you know.
Speaker 4: And I'm not gonna say I'm not gonna like, did
I get excited about Troll two? Yes, of course I
got excited about True Troll too. I fucking love Troll too.
I've loved Troll Too since I had it on VHS
in nineteen ninety. I'm I'm an og Troll two VHS
owner and I was seven years old. Okay, you know
I'm excited about troll too. There's stuff that they announced
that I'm excited about, but their partner labels and the
Meloiciny stuff I get much more excited about because that
really hits my sweet spot because that's those are films
that deserve love too, and that was the entire mission
statement of the company. So the fact that they're still
doing that, I think is important. Always important to note.
You can gripe if you want about the mainstream stuff,
don't buy it. There's still stuff that's for us who
are into, like you know, the bottom dwelling.
Speaker 3: There's still finding ways to get out films like Boost
and The Preacher no matter what.
Speaker 2: And on top of the things like people into buying it.
Speaker 3: Yes, but at least you're still working to get people
to buy, to get people to look at that type
of stuff.
Speaker 4: And I will say that something else I forgot. The
Reviver thing has a really nice extra with Oscar going
through the print of Boots in The Preacher on like
a scanner, showing you the pieces that like, well, this
is going to be a problem, so we have to
do this. This is an issue.
Speaker 3: I eat that ship up like, so they are there.
Speaker 4: That's something else I will say with the company, they
have all the right people working with them behind the
scenes doing this shit. Like I mentioned Dino, Dino takes
doing the subtitles and all the other works he does
very seriously, like they're passionate about what they do because
they love doing it, and I think that's really important.
I think a lot of other boutique labels they have
people who are doing it because well, I want to
work in film and I don't care what it is,
but they have all the right people working for them.
Speaker 2: So well speaking, that kind of feeds into another question,
which is Casey, with your bit of insider knowledge, what
do you think is the future of physical media.
Speaker 4: I think it's going to stay Blu Ray, honestly. And
I see people on Reddit say that they don't want
to buy They're only going to buy four K now,
and I'm like, well, enjoy your boring life, because there's
a lot of stuff that will never come out on
four K because four K is so much more unforgiving
than Not only is it more unforgiving than Blu Ray
in terms of the high definition, it's also much more
expensive to not only license the you have to pay
a licensing fee or whatever it's called to make that type,
to use that technology, it's more expensive to do the transfers.
It's more expensive all around. So I think Blu ray
is gonna stay for for a while. I think that's
kind of the safe bed at this point. It's still
nice and high death. You for whatever reason can put
out vhs and sbhs off on Blu ray and it
looks fine. You can't do that with four K. Sorry,
you can't do that. But you're not gonna you can't
put out like boarding House on on a four K.
Not gonna happen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, so, do I want to see like
an Italian Gothic in four K?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I will buy that. Absolutely ghost this thing, Yes, I
need to see you know, uh, a black and white
Sarno on four K. Probably not.
Speaker 3: I think probably like a grainy sixty millimere film is
not going to look at all better or anything. You
can only add so much detail to each granule. Would
never look on that, No, it would look terrible.
Speaker 4: But you also have to do so much extra work
for clarity that you're actually gonna be manipulating the film.
So it's no longer the film than it was it's
not going to look like it used to. And that's
something that anybody working in archiving and preservation knows, so
they know that four K is great if you're working
with like a camera negative, fantastic rare. It is for
a lot of these films to have a fucking camera
negative very rare. So you know that's why even on
like the Melicini stuff, Like when Stiff Competition came out
on four K, I was like, the original camera negative
to Stiff fucking Competition, And then I was a little
hesitant about it because I got sex World on four K,
and I was like, does this really make a difference?
Let me tell you makes makes a difference. Sex World
looks absolutely astonishing on four K. But that's the exception
to the rule. I think blu ray is definitely going
to still be like the industry standard for a long time, because,
especially when you're dealing with boutique labels and older titles,
any kind of technological advancements are not going to be
as forgiving to older technologies and older film elements and
older video formats. So I think blu ray is definitely
to stay, and I think, not speaking for any of
the Guccica label people because you know, they talk about
it all the time on their own, but I think
they would say that too. It's like, no, we're never
gonna not do Blu ray. I mean because you know,
we can't. We can't afford to do only four K.
Even Screen Factory and Keino like they put stuff out
on four K, but they also still put stuff out
on Blu ray because they have to.
Speaker 6: Arrow.
Speaker 4: I think Arrow seems to have taken a stance where
they're putting out stuff on four K and Blu Ray.
There aren't that many titles they're doing just Blu Ray
on some of the box sets. They are, but if
it's an individual title, usually because they're dealing with studios
so they can they have the stuff to do for
four K. But like the v horror stuff they put out,
you can't put that out on four K. No Shoscope.
I don't think it would be worth the money to
do show stuff on four K. Not everything. You can't
put Oiley Maniac on four K. Five. You know, five
Fingers of Death, that's a major title. Sure, maybe four
K if you have the camera negative or something really nice.
Speaker 2: But well, outside of like elements, what do you see
as you know, the future of boutique labels anything, any
thoughts there, you mean in terms of like what they release,
you know, for example, I was, you know, just kind
of brainstorming with our two in the Pinko friends about
you know, they've been they've been going through a lot
of these nineties pink films, you know, stuff like that
maybe doesn't even need a Blu Ray, but that's the
format we're using. So you know, I was just thinking
about super discount versions of a Blu ray. You know,
you were like, well, forty five to one hour film,
you can't put that out alone. But my mindset is like,
well maybe you can if the price is right.
Speaker 4: So yes, I agree with that. I think if you're
going to put out like a sixty like first, I
think the Roman pornos are actually a very good example
because those things never are longer than like seventy five
minutes max. They don't last longer than that. Some of
them are only sixty five minutes. So when they were
coming out on DVD from like Impulse, sure the DVD
twenty bucks for an hour whatever Blu rays, you're gonna
have to put out a Blu ray at twenty dollars.
If it's going to be an hour, you know, you
can't have it be twenty five thirty dollars even with
a slipcover. Can't be that much.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I don't know the manufacturing, but like, I
don't know. In my mind, it's like I feel like
there's a there's a market for under twenty dollars releases.
Speaker 4: So I don't know those exists, but I think I
think the issue with that is, I mean, it's something
that a lot of has happened in a lot of
stages of home video releases, where the idea that something
is affordable means that it's lower quality.
Speaker 2: Like I know, if you're paying, that's the hurdle we
have to get past.
Speaker 4: Yes, And I feel like DVD definitely had that issue.
I think Blu Ray had that issue. Bluey still has
that issue where if you're getting something for twenty bucks,
you're going to like, oh, this is probably like a
DVDR or Blu Ray of BDR, it's not even a
real Blu Ray, or it's like from a tape master
or something. But so I think that's the hur we
have to go to go through. A lot of these
companies may have to go through where it's kind of like, well,
just because this is affordably priced doesn't mean that it's
like rock bottom quality. We're still putting effort into it
and it's going to be high quality.
Speaker 2: But it's like the people that are bitching about like
fifty dollars, you know, Vinegar Syndrome releases, they should embrace
this concept of like, hey, well want it cheaper, then
here's here's like a no frills like we've been talking
like eclipse versions of films.
Speaker 4: Yes, well, something else that I was thinking of in
terms of formally is well, something else that people don't
really necessarily think about is that there are titles that
continue to be shot on film, like into the nineties,
they were edited on video, so they don't have negatives anymore.
They have a master tape, so they can't do Vinegar
Syndrome for example, would never touch them. They don't do
video restorations. I say, video Is does video stuff, but
the Innegra Center doesn't, isn't. That's that's one of their
partner labels. They don't have the technology to do video restoration,
which sucks because that video is much more difficult to
restore than film. I'll just say that because the different formats,
you know, the way it deteriorates faster than film. So
stuff that's shot on video or available on video only
really needs to be prioritized in terms of restoration, and
that's not happening, which is frustrating. I'll note that. But yeah,
So for example, like the tab for the Taboo films,
for example, the last one that was shot and edited
on film was Taboo four with Ginger Land and Karen Summer.
All the ones after that were shot on film, they
were edited on video, so they can't restore those. All
they have is a video master that they could put
that on Blu Ray if they want, but that's they
can't do any kind of restoration on it because they
don't have that background in video, you know what I mean.
And that's it's not just adult films that are like that.
There are other films in the video market, like the
Vinigerson Archive stuff, a lot of that stuff. They're lucky
that they have negatives of some of those things because
a lot of them were made for the video market,
So why would they ever edit them on film. They
would edit them on video because they would that's much
more affordable. So yeah, there's just different like tech technical
stuff that I think means that Blu Ray will stay around, you.
Speaker 2: Know, yeah, yeah, yeah, in a nutshell.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I just feel like the future maybe there is room
for some kind of budget line. I feel like with
with prices skyrocketing on some of these releases, and I mean,
people bitch about it, but they're probably still buying it.
Speaker 4: But there's else people got it into consideration. Well, we've
also talked about this licensing fees they have that pricing it.
There's there's a lot that I'm sure this has talked
about on like disconnecting other stuff. There's so much that
needs to be taken into consideration for that pricing. You're
talking license fees, you're talking Union does so, SAG DGA,
w g A from major titles like these Warner Brother titles, Garbage,
Peel Kids, all this stuff, frustration work, ck, people doing extras,
the artists that they pay to, the slipcovers, they have
books sometimes that they put in their printing. Yeah, there's
all sorts of different things that come into it. It's
not as simple as it used to be. So I
think that's where our discussions is something simple where it's
like it's a case, it's the cover, it's the disc out,
the door, twenty bucks.
Speaker 3: I endorse this, Yeah, I mean I feel that needs
to happen for us to see you want to see.
Speaker 4: So yes. And also if you're dealing with a major studio,
with not even a major studio, just if you have
a like Carmen Novac major library, if you do a
package deal where you're getting discounted all those movies at
a discount because you're doing it as a as a package,
then it makes it easier for you to high pathetically
sell those at a cheaper price. Potentially something like a
beautiful something like I'm Beautiful and the Bloody and the Bear.
You throw that into a package because no one wants
that on its own. Then you can afford to put
it as a bonus on something because you have like
a bigger title that you got for the same price
or something. Yeah, it's a big old mess, the boutique
label world. I used to want to be much more
involved with it than I am. And I'm just like
your eyes. I don't want to have an I don't
want to have an ulcer like you know. I have
my own mental health issues that I'm able to step
in and step out as I like, Like, if I
was more involved with that, I have to work on
a lot of releases and shit that I would never
want to And I have to do a lot of
bullshitting and do a lot of commentaries and things where
it's just me filling the equivalent of filling out word
count for a college essay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you were on the way that, if you
were like, and you know.
Speaker 4: Who I'm talking about, there are people that do those commentaries,
and you can tell it's like, well, you know, I'm
contracted to so many count materary is a year. I'll
just I'll just keep talking and then say what I
need to say. Yeah, and a lot of words salad.
And I'm like, I'm not learning anything from this. So
is the is the value? Where's the value in this?
So work the money? Does this contribute to the raised price?
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's also the thing. If the raised price
is because of a really bogus commentary.
Speaker 4: Yes, like a patent Oswald commentary. Yeah, we didn't fucking
need you don't have to. I will. I'll throw myself
on this sord every time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I don't think I've ever heard of pat
I know he's done like kind of intros and stuff
for like some critic.
Speaker 4: He did a commentary for like Undertaker and his Panels
or something. Oh yeah, one of the act for things.
And I'm just like, why are you here? Why?
Speaker 3: Okay, why are you here?
Speaker 2: It's one of his favorites.
Speaker 4: They thought that it would sell copies of the movie
because it's Patton Oswald. I think they'll overestimate how popular
Patent Oswald is. I got to listen to that now,
know you don't know you'll learn nothing from it? Or
why just get these.
Speaker 3: People talking for like ten minutes. We don't need a
whole commentary like someone who actually.
Speaker 4: Could we not get someone who actually worked on the movie?
Maybe and people say, well, no one's around. Did you look?
Did you look? Because we talked about on this podcast
somebody is alive, and somebody is alive in every movie
we've talked about that. That is that you know that
we could contact so crazy?
Speaker 2: Hey, look forward to our commentaries coming up in the
next few months, right, Casey.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a lot more. There are a lot more.
They're not as angry as this. There are a lot
more structure than our episodes I'll put it that way.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm just saying that, Yeah, if we can suggest
other people that are more experts in some of these films,
we always try to do that, but I always no
one else can do it.
Speaker 4: Then well I was literally I literally just suggested several
different people for different projects because people come to me
and say like, do you want to do this? I'm like,
I am not the right person for this. This is
who should do this. So that was adult version of
Jacqueline Hyde and Ronic Bunches Zoro. I was asked a
contribute to that, and I was like, I am I'm
not the person for these. Here you go. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But they ended up not doing any commentaries except for
the archivals for that right.
Speaker 4: No, but they got all those They wanted me to
write something and I said, nope, these all these other
writers can.
Speaker 3: Do oh yeah, and so they did.
Speaker 2: Well here's a random one. Do we plan on covering
any of the hardcore films from Bucky Beaver Dragon Art
hardcore horror series from some of the lesser known or
unknown directors. I mean, let me just say, if it's
an unknown director, it's harder to talk about because there's
not a lot we can research. But no, I mean
I think when we started we kind of set out
to not cover hardcore films. What do you but I
mean I think there is a niche if it's a
unique or niche release, Yeah, I mean I'm open to it.
What do you think, Casey, I think if we're discussing,
I'm not super familiar with that Bucky Beaver, what's out?
Speaker 4: What is a van? I have all of them in
one way or the other. Actually, most of them are
ship so I've seen them, rated them, written about them
from my book, and then threw them away.
Speaker 2: Alex, have you seen any of these? Have you seen
this stuff?
Speaker 3: I've seen like a small handful.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like it's yeah, not a ton.
Speaker 3: Some good ones, but normally just the ones that have
a weird plot, like like The Geek and Come Dead
Lad and any of those that might have some sort
of any satanic one probably seen it, but that's about it, like.
Speaker 4: Possession in San Francisco and Hell Madigan. I really like
there are some good ones. The issue is, though, and
I think Lisa talked about this, is that sometimes, for example,
we won't cover either of these. There is a movie
called Linda Can't Stop, which is in nineteen seventy three
Seawan Costello movie shot in New York. Well, there's also
a film print that was found that said it was
called Linda Can't Stop. It's a West Coast movie. It's
not called Linda Can't Stop. Well, we don't know what
that is. So that's so that's kind of what we're
running into, where it's like titles don't necessarily match the movies,
or like there's a movie called SF Wingbangers, where I
think that may have been a title that either Mike
made up or was on the print, but it's really
called The School Teachers. It's much more boring. So there
are some good ones in there, but I think the
only way we would ever discuss them is if we're
talking about somebody like a Renee Bond or a Sandy Carey,
if we're going to talk about movies that we would
recommend people see, or like a Sandy Dempsey where it's like, well,
they're good in this, but you should also maybe go
see this if you want to see them in a
hardcore film, here's an example or something like that. I
think I think going in depth into them is not
only difficult, but it also kind of isn't like the
it's not really the purpose of what we're doing here
where we're trying to stick to soft because there are
definitely others who I continually hint at on this podcast
who are already doing that, so but they're they're not
doing it either.
Speaker 2: So yeah, but they're not doing like this, Yeah, the
Bucky Beaver type stuff. No.
Speaker 4: But you know, in terms of production to be tough
to do that. But even in terms of distribution, it'd
be tough too, because a lot of those weekend wonders,
most of them are weak in wonders. They have no credits,
they have no paper trail because they were shown in
like cheap theaters and wasn't advertising papers.
Speaker 3: It was just yeah, it was distributed via the trunk
of someone's car, yes, right right, And that's the yeah, folks.
That's also the problem the title, like these prints were
so used people out there, like these sixteens in particular,
is that so many of the credits are missing just
from damage and just from them being used and used
and used that the credits are a lot of these
prints are are just gone hm because of projection and
things like that, and they didn't get press materials there's
no press books. There's no like hardly I'm trying to
think a soret front one sheet for something I.
Speaker 4: And that's even like even Lisa had to like a
lot of those things are like screenshots.
Speaker 3: Newspaper ads and newspaper ads guys for these theaters was
normally like a tiny little one in square that says
like blank, adult theater, twenty for hours, nothing interesting, like
just this is what we are and this is how
long we're open.
Speaker 4: For, right, I think actually I would recommend if you
want to know not about specifics in Bucky Beaver, but
if you can get a hold of it. Eric Schaefer
did a really terrific article on the beginning of the
sixteen millimeters pornographic industry, and that ties into another question
that we have about Cosmo's films, because that was kind
of the beginning of that. So if you can get
a copy of it, I forget what the article is called.
It's not Smutty Little Pictures. That's my friend Peter Ala
Luna's book, I believe. But Eric Schaeffer wrote a really
good article that's very comprehensive about sixteen millimeter adult film,
hardcore film production and the beginnings, and that I think
would give you a greater idea of how much limited
information there is. But he was able to kind of
still build that history, and he obviously, because it's an
academic piece, a lot of work cited that you can
then bounce off of that and research more into that.
It's just tough for us to focus on like one
movie or even a group of movies, because what we
like to do is give you know, we like to
do background on the people who made them, and if
we don't know who made them, it's much more difficult
to talk about. So I think a more broad overview
through that Eric Shafer piece would be the way that
I would point somebody to research those bucket beaver things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, is it fair I kind of lump
these in with like stag films. Is that a fair assessment? No? Well,
what I'm trying to say is that these films are
hard to research and write about in this in the
same way that stag films are in that. Yeah, there's
not a lot of information and even the information is incorrect.
Speaker 4: And that's true, yes, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Like yeah, there's Dave Thompson wrote this book called Black
and White and Blue which is about yag films, and
even to my friend like, yeah, in his like forward,
he's like, this was a hard book to write. Nobody
else's writing books like this for a reason. Yeah, because
it's nearly impossible to you know, give qualify quantitative and
qualitative like data on this stuff.
Speaker 4: Well, there's been an improvement on that book, even because
my friend Dan Urban who I went to n YU with,
he wrote a book on loops and stag reels a
couple of years ago and that actually was sold. It
sold through the Meliciny shop and he thanks me and
the acknowledgments, which is very nice. But because yeah, he
and I were kind of the guys who were interested
in porn at NYU, and he went to the me apport,
which is moving image of archiving and preservation. So he
really is into like getting his hands dirty with these
films and stuff. So yeah, that's but stag reels are
that they're similar in that way, but in terms of
no production distribution very different. Yeah, and exhibition very different.
Speaker 2: Well, let's you know, on the topic of like SWV
and their Bucky Beaver, you know, flipping those over to
the back, sometimes you'll see little blurbs and they're written
by names that are not you know, sometimes Lisa writes them,
but there are others like Betsy Berger.
Speaker 4: Have you seen that name?
Speaker 2: I've seen that a few times. Like who are some
of these people that were That was a question that
came in.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, at least with the case of Betsy Berger,
some of these people were like doing research and coming
out with like zines and stuff way back in like
the nineties when Something Weird was just starting. So Betsy
Berger had a two issue zine called high Ball that
came out and this one came out ninety two. The
other one came out I think a year later. And
this is one of the very first, you know, publications
pretty much entirely almost entirely focused on sexploitation, which some
light exploitation adjacent. And I don't know who Betsy actually is. Yeah,
I don't know who Betsy actually is. Like this for
the early nineties. This has in depth discussions with Dave Friedman,
Barry Mayhon, Ted Michaels about his first sex film, a
very rare Lea Frost interview from the sixties, and things
like that. And this also has early reviews on early
Something Weird releases ads and stuff. So yeah, Betsy Berger
was pretty much doing the work before, like Charles Kilgore
was just starting out with Echo around this point. Even
he that far so then yeah, Charles Kilgore then did
liners as well. Some of the other names I do not.
Speaker 4: Ellens was another one I think, and was he was
he Screwball magazine or screw magazine.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what you remember. Betsy Burger is the most
because I love the actual person, right, Yes, Betsy Berger
is real.
Speaker 2: The question where it's like how do these people become associated?
I think it's the same thing that happens today where
it's like, whoever is interested in these films, we're gonna
have them write about it, which is and these people
were currently writing about them.
Speaker 4: Well, I contacted Something Weird asking to do liner notes
because I said, I was after I've been reviewing stuff
for DDE Drive And I said, so, I've seen a
lot of other people write Robin Boujie, who I'm friends with,
and a lot of other people like I've seen them
do liners. Are there any titles that I could do
liners for just because I'd like to be part of
something weird family or whatever? And they threw me the
District Pick stuff. They said, we're reissuing the District Pick
stuff when we need new box copy. So I wrote
box copy for I think eight to ten titles I believe.
So yeah, Sometimes it's just people who are fans, who
are writers, who are like, well, here's some of my work,
and I love you guys, let's do this. The big
mystery I think was, uh, well, there's a guy named
mister Pinky. I'm trying to remember who that was. And
then there was another one named Don the dv It.
And I don't remember exactly who Don the dv It is,
but I think Lisa told me a while to go
and she knows who it is. I don't know if
the I don't know if we're all still sworn to
secrecy on this. I don't remember who exactly it is.
But there are some people that are writing under pseudonyms,
for sure. Some of them are not real, some of
their publications are not real. They're doing it just because
they were asked. And I think someone had said, well,
is Don the DV at Frank canelatter? And it's like,
well no, because Don the dv Review's a lot of hardcore.
Frank didn't really give a shit about hardcore, so I
forget who don the dvit was. But essentially there are
a mix of real people and fake names for real
people who are also writers. So it's possible Betsy Berger
and Elliott James also did reviews as like mister Pinky
or mister Purr or all these other different names and stuff.
I think I'm trying to remember who else did some things.
Speaker 2: But at least Betsy, like I mean, Alex has.
Speaker 4: Published legitimate magazine person, yes, but Elliott Jabers I think
might have been real.
Speaker 3: I would love Oh, Like, I don't know where Betsy
is now, That's what I'm curious about.
Speaker 1: I do not know.
Speaker 4: At least some people are now very good about staying
in touch with people. Yeah, so might know.
Speaker 2: I have to ask Lisa again. I know, I know
how many issues were there of Highball Alex.
Speaker 3: Do you know at least too?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Okay, So I'm just curious if Betsy has more in
the archive. That's why. Yeah, was there a third that
never came out?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Now I'm really sure that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, there's some good stuff. I NEAs scanned
some of this stuff. Actually, I think I have for
you guys, some of the stuff. But yeah, one of
the few Berry Mayhun interviews.
Speaker 4: I think you scanned the Freedman one because we wanted
to make said about Ram Roder and you sent me
something that he said about Ram rod that was it,
which was super duper helpful. And I'm sure he talked
about brit Dollhouse and Sweet Sickness in there too.
Speaker 3: I think everything in there Sweet Sickness, Yes, almost everything
in here, almost everything he has a blurb for.
Speaker 4: That's good. I love Freedman. We already had our Freedman
love in but yeah, I love and miss Dave.
Speaker 3: We'll continue. We got his films to actually talk about.
I haven't actually talked about one yet.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, well that's true Ram Rodgers sort of. It
was a pick up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well here's let's go with this one. So
will there be an episode on Gordon Heller or Freelove Confidential?
Speaker 4: I would love it? Yeah, I love Free Love Confidential.
I when I revisited that on my Novak rewatch, I
was like, Wow, I forgot how really incredible this is.
It hits all the sex the spots from me and
I don't know where the one where that Gordon Heller
is William Rosler came from. I can say unequivocally that
is not William Rosler. That is not a William Rosller movie.
First of all, he's not in it, and Rochester liked
to be in his own ship even in the cameos.
Second of all, he was already established as William Rotsler
or Shannon Carse, so he didn't do Freelove Confidential. But
I love it so much. You have these two friends,
including this one with a French accent, out there trying
to have fun and getting blackmailed with nudie pictures while
they're doing drugs with a photographer. You have a butch
lesbian in leather. You have go go dancing, you have
breaking into a bank. It's like, it is so it
is really incredible. It is so incredible. Speaking of another
something weird, I want to upgrade for Free Love Confidential,
which not enough people talk about.
Speaker 2: So good. Yeah, I think that Rotzler confusion came in
because I think Free Love was written by the same
guy who wrote some of Rozler's.
Speaker 4: Yes, that's probably why. So they think that that's the connection.
But it's like, but yeah, sure, but that doesn't mean
they're the same person.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I.
Speaker 4: Forget who shot it too. I mean they're oh, you
know who else? I think Ed de Priest worked on it.
So when I reviewed it on Letterbox, I think I dropped.
I noticed that two people who worked on that are
still around. I was like, ask them who, Gordon, how
don't assume it's rots?
Speaker 6: You know?
Speaker 2: It also looks kind of like a Rosler film.
Speaker 4: So yeah, I mean it's a black and white movie
shot in California. They're all going to look like a
Rossler movie. Like there's only there's a certain look to
black and white California films. Just there's a certain look
to black and white New York films. It's like even
thematically it's sort of similar to a Rosler movie. But
it's like that's like all the Peter Woodcox looking like
a Bird of Filly movies. So I made that stupid
mistake and that wasn't true. So yeah, yeah, we'll talk
about to follow the trails, gotta follow the trails.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we'll do a free love at some
point for sure.
Speaker 1: I love.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know that, you know, we personally, I like
put it on my mental back burner because we did
cover Rothsler when we covered it. I watched that because
I had heard something really from other people that it
was a Rottler. So we'll loop back to it and
we will talk more about how it is not a
William Roziller film.
Speaker 4: No, it's so great. I mean it's it's it's stylish,
it's funny.
Speaker 3: I watch this, damn. Oh, I know I have seen it.
I watched it.
Speaker 4: I remember that. I was like, this is really good
when I reviewed it for DVD driving and then I
rewatched it and it was so much better than I remembered.
It was like, why did I kind of just shrug
this off like it's it's like a top I think
it's a top ten Novak for me actually for Confidential.
Speaker 3: Yes, I loved it so much. Yeah, yeah, I really look.
Speaker 2: On my review, I was like, where has this been hiding? Yeah,
it was kind of came out of nowhere, like, hey,
this is really funny and well done, and yeah, who.
Speaker 3: The hell is this guy?
Speaker 1: I know?
Speaker 4: And it's paired with a total piece of shit for
single swingers only, which is gone off. But yeah, yeah, yeah,
I was like, shouldn't have been paired with another black
and white? It should have been paired with help Wanted Female.
Honestly very similar Vie So that movie. Yeah, another California
Black and whitey that was really good.
Speaker 3: Okay, I wonder who asked that question.
Speaker 4: I wonder who asked that question.
Speaker 3: Some of these are really interesting.
Speaker 2: I think it was I think it was the other Alex.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: If I remember, if you haven't seen that.
Speaker 4: Movie, don't sleep on it. Don't wait till we do
an episode on it. Watch it immediately. I'm not even kidding. Okay, good.
I don't know why he hasn't seen it. Anyone else
who hasn't seen it. Make it vaulted to the top
of your watch list. I'm telling you, it's really good. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, say, is there another sexploitation that's as misadventure comedy?
Speaker 4: Is that one from the sixties?
Speaker 2: Hmm?
Speaker 3: I can't think of it like that.
Speaker 4: Like a misadvent like a Steve an Apostle off. One
kind of has a lot.
Speaker 3: Of that's true, like Mistake.
Speaker 4: Company.
Speaker 3: I was like going on a weird, like little misadventure
kind of thing. It's it feels a lot more like
anything but my Husband rather than anything else that was
going on.
Speaker 4: Yes, it is anyone, but yes, it is very classic
screwball comedy. It's kind of like, oh, what is it
Glenda Farrell? Now, who's the woman who died? Thelma Todd
and what's her face? The lesbian who I love? Yeah,
they had like a bunch of a bunch of comedies
in the thirties where it was the two galpals running around.
Speaker 3: I can't think of another one. That's why.
Speaker 4: Thelmatod and Patsy Kelly comedies. It's this exploitation version of
a Thelmatad Patsy Kelly comedy.
Speaker 3: Would have taken more.
Speaker 4: Yeah, surely over selling it, but it is really good.
It's such a beautiful surprise considering if you go in
thinking a free love confidential, this could be anything. It
It really goes in so many different directions. It's great.
Speaker 2: Two young wives looking for excitement and a new kind
of love, a free love. Well, on that note, I
mean this is a pretty broad I don't know, maybe
we've covered this. What is your favorite something weird video release?
Speaker 4: Can?
Speaker 2: Is that possible to list our favorite cases? Nodding his head,
toy box towards enough children? Okay, that's it? Yeah.
Speaker 4: Oh, also, what's the It's ultimate degenerate?
Speaker 3: Oh, lusting hours and.
Speaker 4: In Hot Blood one in Hot Blood, What's the arouse
a Female? What's the Rental Girl? Yeah, a lot of
triple features.
Speaker 3: The triple features are really good.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they don't always hit, but when they slap, they
slap well, like when all the movies are perfect together.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, the Rented Girl one was probably gonna be
my number one. The Luke camp A triple as well.
Speaker 4: All three of those are great.
Speaker 3: That went really hard as well. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Ultimately, honestly's go to Hell another day another man. I
love that Let's go to the drive in thing. I
still have some of the worst releases they ever put
out because they have the drive in feature, which I
just enjoyed. I just skipped through the movie and then
get to all the rest of the stuff, like Bloodsucker's
Bloodthirst one of their worst releases ever, but I have
it because it has the drive in feature.
Speaker 2: So what did you say, Alex?
Speaker 3: Did you poke Rogers? A couple? Just a couple? Because
now I'm also think about the early sweet Spot ones,
like one of my first one that is one of
that's probably my top I never that's a no brainer
for me. So I'm always skipping Milligan, like like the filers.
Come of the Earth has a release a soft spot
for me. That was one of my first ones as
well too, that's my first strangler. Yeah yeah. Rented Girls
probably my number one because's the one I revisit the most,
and then probably the ultimate Degenerate release. Those are the
two that I love to pop in.
Speaker 2: Oh, I didn't know you were such a Rented Girl fan.
Speaker 3: Well the other well not Rented Girl, but like that
whole release like Aroused help.
Speaker 4: On rent a Girl works really well book ended by
those two. It's the tameness of the three, but it's
very it fits nicely and it's not like a it's
not like a vibrations fluctuation submission where you're like, what
the is this bottom thing?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Coaster as well, ye yeah.
Speaker 4: Also like the nice continuity Yeah, there's a nice continuity
and sleaziness across the three of those. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, for me, let me give a shout out to
the The Sea Through double Feature, The Girl from S
I N and Henry's Night In. I do love both
of those, The Invisible Invisible Man and Invisible Woman double feature, Yes, and.
Speaker 4: Passing Hot Hollows. It's in the suburbs swapping how they
make it swapping how that was my first were listening
every sing That's how I fell in love with Pat mcmaher,
was swapping how they make it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're right, that was my first story as well.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was like, damn, who is this?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 4: What else?
Speaker 3: The smell of honey disk was great? Like yes, I
mean that's.
Speaker 4: Think about what we missed when the image thing ended
and what we still don't really have. We don't have
an equivalent to that. Even with the melic any stuff.
We don't have a regular They used to come out
with two to three a month.
Speaker 3: I was how many of those were there?
Speaker 4: Two to three? That was like, so, I mean you know, yeah, well,
we'll never have it that good again. I'm sorry, even
in this beautiful golden age we have right now, we
will never have it like that again.
Speaker 6: I know.
Speaker 3: Sometimes I think back to like when it ended, like
two thousand and seven and eight, and just so many
of the deep cuts we were just talking about that
could I can picture the discs in my head what
they could have possibly do, and you.
Speaker 2: Can imagine like what what could pair up well together?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's yeah, yeah, like just in the District's caw
Log of Love, we could have gotten such so many
other great double and triples.
Speaker 4: Just for some of those we only got two. You
only got that one double feature. We didn't get the rest.
Speaker 2: Ye, well, as we yap as we yap on. Here
here's a question. Would there ever be any interest in
doing a live podcast where a crowd watches a movie
and then it is discussed afterwards.
Speaker 4: Well, so that's I agree. I yes, absolutely, I've said
I've wanted I've wanted to have us come to New
York and do that.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to has has anybody done something like that
where they watch a movie and then have like an
in depth discussion afterwards, not just like a couple of
quick little questions, but like us sit down and like
an hour the podcast, Not.
Speaker 4: That I can think of, like even how how did
this get made? They don't watch the movies in the theater.
They just you watch it as homework and then you
go to the theater.
Speaker 2: Because yeah, that's what I'm asking, because yeah, that would
be an interesting I mean, that's it's asking a lot
of time from people, I think, you know, to watch.
But then again, with these movies, it does help that
they're shorter, so you know, you you go and watch
an hour long sexploitation film and then you you know,
and then we would sit down and talk about it
afterwards for another hour.
Speaker 4: And yeah, you'd also have to choose wisely, because I've
said this before. Some some movies do not work with audiences.
They don't if you have to sit there and watch
certain movies without the benefit of a fast forward button,
if their sex scenes go on too long, if there's
less to grab onto out side of the sex, then
that's tougher. So for you, Love Confidential would be a
great one.
Speaker 2: Actually, that would be a perfect one.
Speaker 4: That would be a perfect one because there's so much
I mean that I think if you're going to go,
if we're going to do that, it would have to
be something like quite bonkers, but also with a fascinating backstory,
so like Sacked Sacked by the forty, which would be good.
Actually a few we've done a bunch of ones that
I think would work well. All American Girl. I'm not
sure that one's a little tougher. I would love to
see that with the audience, but I think to have
a conversation about it after might be a little too uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: Even that, But in that regard, I think it would
be interesting because yeah, if, if, even if the audience
isn't feeling it, or it's like pushing them a little
bit too much out of their comfort zone, feed that
into the discussion afterwards, you know, I could make for
an interesting Q and a or.
Speaker 4: Talk about the talk about the problematic aspects of that
film and the way that it's both problematic and progressive somehow,
some mostetically, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, instead of just sitting there stewing like I hate this,
I'm gonna go home and bitch about it online. Hey,
we're going to be there, you know, talk to talk
about it afterwards, so let us know what you think.
Speaker 4: I think New York is the place to do that, honestly,
just because I keep hearing these horror stories about California.
So if we're going to do it, it would have
to be Chicago and New York, I believe, maybe Austin.
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, that would be fun. Yeah, if anybody's
programming out there and wants to bring us out to talk, yeah,
we would love that. Maybe Nighthawk in Brooklyn, Yeah, maybe.
Speaker 3: If anyone has some film ideas, miniskirt love, can you
imagine sucking to me baby.
Speaker 4: On the list first. That one's tougher to get. That
one's tougher, fool A baby is a little slow.
Speaker 3: I don't know, maybe it'll be tough, be fun. That's
a bit dark.
Speaker 4: Aroused works great with an audience. I've seen it. I
know we're great with an audience.
Speaker 3: Oh you were in that audience, okay, I was.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that worked really great with an audience.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're down. We're down for it. We
just you know, need the opportunity to land in our lap.
Let me kick a question to you, Alex. Okay, this
one's for you. Okay, talk about the economics of the genre.
We had a question, you know, for these low budget movies,
and you know film is film is an expensive medium,
as they asked, as they mentioned here in their question,
and these films seem to only have a handful of
prince made. Question is how much money did the average
sexploitation movie really make?
Speaker 3: Okay, so we do kind of have an idea on
what the average sexploitation film made thanks to this wonderful
little book. Da Da Da da For listeners, I'm holding
up the Technical Report of the Commission on Obscenity and
pornography which was created in the early seventies, because in
nineteen sixty seven, here I'm going to read out a
little thing that explains this whole thing, and people, this
is important, This is an important thing to discuss. So
bearwi me for a hot minute about this little tone.
In nineteen sixty seven, it was put into law that
the I'll just read out, the Congress finds that the
traffic and obscenity in pornography is a matter of national concern.
The problem, however, is not one which can be solved
at any one level of government. It is the purpose
of this Act to establish an advisory Commission, whose purpose
it shall be, after a thorough study of a thorough
study of the relationship of such materials to antisocial behavior,
to recommend advisable, appropriate, effective, and constitutional means to deal
effectively with such traffic and abscenity and pornography. And what
they had to do for this report was to a
analyze the like, analyze everything, pretty much, analyze a law
pertaining to the control of obscenity, and to evaluate and
recommend laws and definitions of it. To ascertain the methods
employed in the distribution and volume, to study the effect
upon the public and particularly minors, its relationship to cry
and antisocial behavior. And then finally to recommend such legislative, administrative,
and other advisable appropriate actions that the Commission deems necessary
to regulate effectively the flow such traffic. So this report
is done so pretty much they do this report on
tax payers dollars and pretty much create the best textbook
for how the industry ran and was operated in terms
of in terms of production and distribution, not only with
film but also with books, magazines and mail order. So
this is pretty much to all researchers out there in
absolutely essential tone to have, particularly Volume three and four
as it deals with the marketplace, because like I said,
it is the government, and they did incredibly thorough research,
as thorough as one could expect with this kind of thing.
And even in this book they make it very clear
when their research was hazy because they can not properly
get their sources. So the Commission said, and I've I
also have some opinions on this I'll stick in there
that really most exploitation films could get a red. We're
looking towards getting around a typical return of around seventy
to one hundred thousand dollars. I would cut this down
a bit because their one bias in terms of these
numbers was that most of the data they got was
from higher end distributors such as Dave Friedman and stuff,
who didn't really represent a lot of smaller people that
we talked about, like American film distributing and stuff like that.
Dave could Dave could get upwards of one hundred and
fifty two hundred thousand per film depending on the film.
But that's but that's an outlier. I would say it
is about, depending on the person, fifty to one hundred
thousand dollars after a couple years of the film being
out on the marketplace. And again that depends on a
lot of and that again depends on a lot of things.
Like I said, if you're a Dave Friedman, you can
normally expect one hundred thousand dollars because you are you
have a higher level quality of product. So we can
play in all the exploitation houses, which according to the report,
as of nineteen sixty nine, nineteen anty sixty, nineteen sixty nine,
there were about four to five hundred exploitation houses in America,
with an additional over one hundred or so that occasionally
showed exploitation films. A Freedman film could show in those
theaters that occasionally showed exploitation films. Something like hot like
in Hot Blood was not about to show in a
theater that only occasionally showed exploitation films. Was the rest?
I think the question was also in terms of money
put into these what was it?
Speaker 2: So?
Speaker 3: Yeah, so they're were looking at normally. Okay, so black
and white film, black and white print. I'm going to
go very loose with these here. So black and white
print is around two fifty to three hundred dollars a print,
you make up five actually yeah, actually color is five
to seven hundred. So let's talk right. Let's say I'm
gonna go you make about so, first of all, you've
spent about one hundred thousand dollars. I'm saying, your stand boreden.
You spent uh, you spent sorry, ten thousand dollars to
buy a film you then make. I'm gonna go with
one hundred print. I'm not one hundred wow ten prints. Yeah,
I'm gonna go a little bit higher. I'm gonna go
a little bit higher with Stan and say that he
did ten prints of a movie, and I'm going to
go that it's about seventy five minutes. I'm going to
say around two fifty prints alone. He's looking to two
thousand to three thousand dollars for those prints, and then
trailers and one sheets. Probably not that much more. He's
probably sinking around maybe loosely five thousand, five to seven
thousand when it comes to also shipping those materials to
the first couple of houses. So he's sunk in around,
like I said, loosely like this, only less than twenty
thousand dollars into each film, and he's making about let's
see here. Another thing that people need to consider as
well with these theaters is that a lot of them
did not operate on a gross percentage basis in terms
of returns. A lot of these theaters operated on what
was called a flat rental deal, which meant that the
theater paid you a flat amount to book your film.
They did not give you a percentage of the gross,
and that flat amount was normally what they what they
would normally calculate. Say, okay, I take in around I'm
a bigger theater in metropolitanity. I taken around five thousand
dollars gross weekly. That's my average, and I want to
spend about normally ten to fifteen percent of that buying film,
So I'm gonna my go to flat rental rate will
be four hundred dollars a movie to play for a week.
So you were not getting percentages. So if your film
did well, the only way you would get more money
is if that film was held over for another week,
so you're not so if the film's doing really well,
that doesn't matter. What you're trying to do is you're
trying to get as many bookings. The more bookings, the
more rental. So you're hoping to get at least, say,
out of those four hundred, you're hoping to get at
least of one hundred and fifty bookings for one of
these for one of these films, And let's say you've
got one hundred and fifty bookings. Four hundred was about average.
I'm going to go down a bit because we could
be talking about one hundred and fifty dollars backwater drive
ins that could only spend that much. So let's do
one hundred and fifty times three hundred forty five thousand
dollars return. If you booked if you played that much.
So that's where I'm going off of in terms of
fifty to one hundred thousand dollars. Yes, his first run
only right after two or three years. Okay, this is
even even here. They're like, it can take a film
can be playing three years in and still be considered
first run. That's true, as we've seen the returns after
like three years or so of these films in the marketplace,
right pretty much. Dave Friedman once said this was in
I'm quoting his Headmistress commentary in that he said, like
on the buckle of the Bible Belt, there could be
a state or two with one hundred drive ins that
play an exploitation film. Those drive ins, because they're backwater
and stuff, would only give you around one hundred dollars
film rendal. But if you have one print that plays
all one hundred those drive ins through one print, that's
your entire negative cost plus back.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: True, that does really add up. Actually, and fun little
fact because they use they looked at Dave Friedman's books.
A little fact about Dave's in terms of as least
as nineteen sixty nine, the averag ev I production has
five hundred and fifty play dates in the United States.
Most people, most big guys thought they were doing fantastically
to play four hundred, But Dave's regular was five hundred.
Speaker 4: In fits it was the Mighty Monarch. That's why he's
the best.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, so he could see one
hundred to two thousand, two hundred thousand, but yeah, the
smaller guys, that's probably what it would be. But then
again we have to be very loose about that. That's
a definite. Like even the report was not the most definite.
They're like, this is the number one kind of average.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think your number sounds a little closer
to reality.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, like so you weren't making bank. You did
have to keep on grinding this product out, like you
really could not believe in the hype that like one film.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 4: But then this is also why places like Variety you
can't really trace that because if it's a flat rental fee,
nobody's tracing tickets because the ticket sales are irrelevant except
to the actual venue and the owner of the venue.
That's what matters. Variety is not tracking this, So that's
why you can't really track Variety numbers for a lot
of this stuff because they're.
Speaker 3: Not Yeah, yeah, that's why we can only kind of
do play dates and only then have a very loose
idea that like it seems like it did. One thing
I should also add to people out there as well,
is that also even subdistributors, a lot of them did
not do percentages. They gave you what they thought they
could do, So you weren't even geting percentage from sub distributors.
Like if you're going to someone out in Charlotte, someone
the guy in Charlotte's like, okay, so this is how
many I could probably book them, and like I know
my market down here. Okay, I'll give you like ten
thousand flat for these territories, leave me alone, and I'll
run your film for the most part. That's also how
that happened too. So also even with your subdistribution deals,
you were also gaining chunks of money just out of
those and not waiting for it, like we're off the bat.
Depending on the territory and stuff like, yeah, there was
some that could be like a thirty thousand dollars area
and you get you're thirty k walk away. Let the
guys deal with your movie.
Speaker 4: Well, I was going to say. That's why I note
for I've started noting now that I have access to newspapers.
I like tracing the life of a film and seeing
and I think in one example, one of the show notes,
I think that is accessible on our patreon, I kind
of try to make a note of how many prints
there even were, because we're talking about like one print
potentially per region or per two states, three states or whatever.
So even trying to figure that out through those paper
through the paper trail of the distribution based on what
newspapers are advertising, and that's not even the full picture
because there were places where those pictures could not be
advertising newspapers.
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's also that's also the the thing folks,
for people who, like I said, went out there whant
to research this. Google Books has all the reports available
for free on pdf. I might I might make volume
three and four available on our Patreon to make it
easier for some people because people for sending.
Speaker 4: Them to them. By the way, because I didn't have
good grief, this is incredible. I don't know why I
didn't have a copy already, to be honest, Yeah.
Speaker 3: They're hard to find unless you realize that Google Books
and Google books doesn't even regularly have PDA whole full
PDFs and stuff, so it took me a long time
to figure out where to find them. But yeah, yeah,
like you're right. Newspapers dot Com only has access to
the newspapers that the newspapers provide for them, so we
are missing so like we can't We probably never be
able to find there were like four hundred theaters. We're
probably not going to be able to find every single
one of those theaters via newspapers dot com.
Speaker 4: Dot Com also doesn't have like Village Voice, and Village
Voice was much better at documenting New York theaters than
New York Even New York Daily News was a lot.
They have some free press for like San Francisco and
Los Angeles and other places, but there are other major
venues that wouldn't be advertised. The La Times, for example,
is not great about certain things.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like so, folks, we have a fraction like pretty.
Speaker 4: Much to you you mentioning this is also interesting because
you know, we just we've discussed when theaters are in
trouble because they're trying to screen a movie, So then
you have to put into the context of they've already
paid to screen this movie and now they can't make
any money through ticket sales and they owe fines and
jail time and lawyer fees, and the distributors are not
stepping up to help them with this. No, we're done,
just like this is.
Speaker 2: I hope it doesn't.
Speaker 4: No, it's pre a f a A because a f
a A. I think realized we are going to lose
out on this because people are not going to book
from us if there's still this threat that well, the
last time I booked a move from you, I couldn't.
I couldn't. I couldn't play it. So they were they
were going to be losing money too, So I think
it was helped put theearhead at that. Yeah, he was
very helpful in that. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because they put together and I really hope someone
has a copy of this Stanley Fleischmann. They put together
that legal guide to give to theaters. Yeah, that would
be incredible to have. Yeah, oh man, you know who.
Speaker 4: Might have it? Actually, I WI should ask Lisa actually,
because I'm sure Friedman had it amongst his stuff, so
that's something that maybe Lisa has. So basically we had
a lot of stuff to ask this episode. Yeah, because
that's really the voice memo for an update next episode.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because that legal guide, I feel it changed the
game for people in like small towns and things like that.
Speaker 4: There's so many people did not know how to you know,
fight this exactly. They just basically were like, okay, fine,
we'll pay the fine whatever.
Speaker 2: Well, the tail end of that question that I wanted
to ask you, Alex, is you know, was there any
illegality going on in terms of funding these films?
Speaker 3: I wouldn't be surprised, but we what is?
Speaker 2: Yeah, go ahead, Well does the report talk about anything
like money laundering or any kind of like tax No.
Speaker 4: No, not really.
Speaker 3: That was a bit more of an if that was happening.
That was a bit more of like an individualized type
of basis and people with their own tales behind that.
Like I know Chillie Wilson was hiding money in her wall,
but like that isn't really a really openly known thing
or something that would have been really reported of. Like again,
I only found that out because people were renovating her
office and said we found money, or there's that guy
that there's that banker that produced it in the suburbs
with money that he that he stole from the bank
that embezzled or whatever. But that would that's one case basis.
I'm trying to think of an organ of like a
film company.
Speaker 4: I it's much more of a hardcore thing. Even in
terms of like loops being produced that were hardcore in
like Florida and Chicago and things like that. It wasn't
feature film productions were loop. Those were loops and more
illicit stuff that you would really get in much more
trouble for.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if anything was yeah, it was either the loops
or like really ed fetish publications and stuff done with
cash like it was. It was not the general theatrical stuff.
It was stuff you.
Speaker 4: Definitely didn't want to paper trail for. It was the
stuff that we've discussed where there is lack of a
paper trail for those reasons because it's much more illicit,
much more under the counter. The exploitation stuff is much
more over the counter because you need to make money
on it.
Speaker 3: They were already and this is the way I put
and even with people who are like, this must have
been such a horrible business with all these awful things happened,
blah blah blah, was already under so much scrutiny you
didn't want to, like in their line of fire any
more than you already were. Like, this wasn't the type
business where you wanted to do the most criminal things.
Speaker 4: Because it came from the studios as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so they knew.
Speaker 4: They knew you had to keep books, you had to
you had to justify things to the tax mean, you
had to do all this stuff. They came from that
background of the studio system and how Hollywood worked. So
I think it was when it became like fly by nighters, yes,
in hardcore, that's when it became much more where can
we get money?
Speaker 3: Well, I know again, yeah, like storefront like that, the
Storefront films must have all been cash deals for the
prints and things like that, Like even the lab you know,
like yeah just all well yeah, backdoor deals with like
Burt Steiger's lab.
Speaker 4: That was a big thing, like Burt Steiger's I forget
was the Pacific Pacific labs, I believe, like backdoor deals.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if any backdoor deals were happening in this era,
it was the jack Rabbit had stolen prints, uh huh,
Like and that was still not two of the industry.
That was people like Don Davison occasionally and stuff, but
like that was still that's the one outlier as a whole.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like Casey said, yeah, I mean when we're talking
about sixties, Yeah, like a lot of these people making
movies were Hollywood you know, old timers. They were involved
in that.
Speaker 4: So I think Koo Columbies, like we're talking, they were
working in studios, so they knew that they knew the deal.
Speaker 2: But once again, I think closer to the late seventies eighties,
then I think it gets a little shadier.
Speaker 4: That's when it became once more Yeah, well that they
were real. They were much more of outlaws and uh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: Everything pretty much went crazy because even the people who
didn't come from studios, like we've talked about people that
they started in industrial films, like they started making movies
when they were in the They started working in film
because they were making films for the army or like
you know, local advertising firms and things like that.
Speaker 4: It wasn't like, well, I want to make a fuck
film that's hardcore. I can get like a cheap sixty
millimeters camera and shooting in the hotel room, and I
know a guy who can give me some money for
like film, Like that's much more illicit in terms of
like that's a hardcore thing. I mean, I'm not saying
it didn't happen in softcore, much more of a hardcore thing,
you know, because that was much more because that was
much more wild west. Because like, it's kind of like
how the Internet started, where there was no regulation over porn.
It's very much that there was no regulation really over
over hardcore. For a while, it was kind of like, well,
what can we do and what can we not do?
You know, everyone had their different their different legal definitions
of pornography and obscenity.
Speaker 1: Emotional picture that depicts the extremes and passions and positions.
As in every movie, there are the actors and the actresses.
This one is no exception. Well there is one exception.
This is beat Mama Queen realms. These Satian beauties find
entertainment and them and you will find them exciting and
truly fascinating.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, thank you for that.
Speaker 4: I think we covered that.
Speaker 3: We cover even more than that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we talked about newspapers dot Com a bit,
and we did have a question about, you know, some
research questions regarding Yeah, newspapers dot com does that someone
has had some issues with censored results. I know you've
had your own issues with glitchiness of newspapers. What do
you in case?
Speaker 4: That's the only issue that I've had where I will
be searching for four to five hours and then eventually
the website will just stop showing me results and say
try again later, try again later, And I'm like, did
I exhaust? I don't have a plan where I have
a limit of searches and results a day. So that's
the only to show I've run into. I've never run
into any issue with censorship or not searching for certain words.
So yeah, I'm not sure. I think it has a
lot of glitches, and I think because they know they're
the like the only game in town, they're not interested
in fixing that. Like I've sent them to support emails
about this and zero response and it's it's been a
month since I people of them. So yeah, they're not interested.
They're just like whatever, Yeah they're care.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they only host so much like they will always
glitch out. You'll always see the blue question marks covering
the page. If you get past like twenty results, you'll
have to refresh the page. You have a lot of
page refreshing. It would log like most recently, it's not
doing this anymore, but I would go to other page.
It was like, you have to be you have to
have a subscription to do this. I'm like, honey, I
do they locked in this whole time?
Speaker 4: Thank you?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. And I have not had
a problem with with No, I don't think I've had
a problem with censorship awards. But also they just don't
come up as much naturally in newspapers, so I have
not had reason to search for a very obscene profane
language because it any right, yeah, yeah exactly. The only
real nightmare I have is, of course, like the quality
of the microfiche and how smudgye it is with how
like you can get hits with some of the hits
and some of the things that like it thinks you want,
right like that's that's absolutely not But no, I have
not had a problem with okay for fandy or anything
like that so far.
Speaker 4: It's just it sounds like everyone has their own and
there's no rhyme or reason to it. Unfortunately. Yeah, newspapers,
the benefits outweigh the the issues. I'm like, Okay, I
guess I can't look for any more for the for
the episode today.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in case we haven't given away the game.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like newsp papers, dot com is very useful tool if
you're a researcher.
Speaker 4: Definitely has its limits, yes, but it's you have you
have to supplement it with other stuff. It's not a
it's not a one size fits all situation for it's
not an all it's not an all history.
Speaker 3: It does he ever have like like like there is
there is a Texas specific newspaper portal on a different
on from a university that is more in depth in
the state of like Texas than newspapers. Dot com is right,
like they don't have like local broken arm Cherokee County
type of thing like newspapers. Dot com doesn't encompass everything,
but they do cover most of the bases. And I
and I can only imagine what it was like back
in those days when you had to go through microfees
and things like that, because I found stuff on filmmakers
that I would have never found, like you would not
have found Sandy Johnson's death probably.
Speaker 4: No, never because it was because where would you have looked.
I would only have access to New York stuff. I
wouldn't have access to Chicago, or you would.
Speaker 2: Have had to know Texas, where he like probably was
living at the time of his death. Go to the library,
you know, the library in that in that county, ask
if they have records. They have to fumble around for
you know, who knows how long loading stuff up for
you to flip through. Yeah, there are certain good things
about our modern age.
Speaker 4: Yes, it's helpful, but it also it's like you have
to supplement it with other stuff for sure.
Speaker 3: And also kind of know how to work with it. Yes,
it's not a lot.
Speaker 4: Yes, I've had someone say, like someone mentioned like, well, yeah,
I guess I can. I could be a historian too,
if I had a newspapers dot com membership. I'm like
tip of the iceberg jerk off.
Speaker 3: A couple of years ago.
Speaker 4: You don't, You don't even have a clue Like that
is just they overnam nameless but.
Speaker 3: Had a good just like open to anyone who thinks
they're historian just because they have newspaper dot com has
no idea what they're doing. Blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 4: Yes, exactly, there's so there is so much. Yeah, I
mean it's it's a lot that covers a lot, like
there's so much other stuff, and but there's also stuff
that used to be available that isn't available anymore. Like
for Amazon, he used to be able to search inside
of books you can't now. So so, for example, Carter
Courtney was a gay actor in hardcore films. He didn't
do any hardcore. He was like a character actor. He's
in like Pamela Man and Mounted Venus and stuff. So
I was I was trying to find out. I found
out he died in jail, and I was like, well,
how can I find this information? I found a book
that like a a chaplain wrote who knew Carter Courtney
when he was a prison chaplain? And I only found
him and emailed him and interviewed him about Carter Courtney
from my book. I only found him because I found
an excerpt from his book on Amazon, and I bought
the book and then I emailed him. You can't do
that now. I've tried to go back and find that
that a ways that anyone could ever find that book
talking about Carter Courtney not possible. So we it's like
we take four steps forward and then five steps back,
like public records have gotten worse. We used to be
able to access social security death indecks for free. Now
that's behind a paywall, white pages behind a paywall. Like,
there's definitely restrictions now, but you have to if you're
a researcher, you got to find ways around it. And
and you know it's not all as easy. I think
people will say that, well, yeah, my day, we just
had microfesion phone books. It's like, yeah, I mean, we
have definitely definite advantages, but we also have disadvantages because
you know, there's there are definitely other disadvantages.
Speaker 3: With them, especially also in such a genre like this. Yes,
people don't like yeah, every other date, you're probably still
find databases you've never even heard about that are probably
very helpful, and think like forums exist and then go down.
Speaker 4: Yes people, yes, box Office Magazine a Box Office Magazine
archive wasn't available several years ago, and that popped up,
and all of a sudden you're finding all sorts of
stuff on that on the Box Office Magazine archives. Variety
archives used to be available, those aren't now. New York
Times used to be more accessible and now that's behind
a paywall. Village Voice used to be more Yeah, stuff
comes and goes.
Speaker 3: So that's why books. Yeah, yeah, Googles. Oh actually, well.
Speaker 4: That's how I found the ballet teacher from Two Girls
for a Madman, an ad that she had for being
a ballet teacher.
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, yeah, weird. Yeah, for so many reason, folks.
Google books has a couple of newspapers but not a lot,
Like it's just have to go backwere.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you can't. Just basically, when you search for something,
you have to go to the end of the search.
You have to keep going. Even if it's the same
ship that you see over and over, you have to
keep going. And so that's why it's not for it's
really it's not for the week. And then that's why.
Speaker 3: Things like pseudonym, obituary, pseudonym, birth date, pseudonyms, spouse yes, steady.
Speaker 4: Yes, So that's why, like, yeah, if you're going to
do it, you have to. It's not necessarily the healthiest
hobby because it will drive you insane like I've been.
I've been driven to tears, I have been frustrated beyond belief,
and then a month later, oh my gosh, I found
something miraculously. How did this happen? So it's rewarding, frustrating,
and not for the weak of heart, but I encourage
you to do it if you want to.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 2: Yes, Well, an adjacent question to that is, you know,
is there anything like a list or database of adults
only films of the sixties and other decades. No.
Speaker 4: The closest thing, well, the closest thing I can think
of that I used as a jumping off point is
Alex's loss and in Limbo's exploitation list on Letterbox, which
I've added to as movies keep getting added and things
like that. No, I don't think there is. I think no.
I think Lisa and Mike came up with one based
on the AFI cattle, but even that, shockingly is incomplete.
The AFI catalog is not one hundred percent complete.
Speaker 2: Well no, Alex, what are you going on in a.
Speaker 4: Certain year too? But yeah, if you're dealing with sixties only?
But yeah, but yeah, there's still a lot of stuff
that's missing.
Speaker 2: We are just going off a personal list, Alex, for
you know your completion the.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well I also have because almost everything that of
course has been made available will at least normally be
on lighter box and stuff like So that's very easy
for me to like create watch list and things. I'm
just doing ones that release on home. I'm not trying
to hunt down every single lost one and then see
that one too.
Speaker 4: So that's a bit I was gonna say, Alex, I'm
gonna have to let let go of your hand on
this journey because I think you're gonna go down a
rabbit hole that will leave.
Speaker 3: You, yeah, out of your mind. It's not like, yeah,
so it's not limitable ones, but for lost ones. Yeah,
AFI has almost everything. There's one or two, and I
can picture what the one sheet looks like, but I
cannot think of what the title. The name is, yes
it is, that's the Carolyn Lima story. Yeah story, there's one.
Oh my god, No, there's there's.
Speaker 4: Some other Texas ones that aren't in there. I don't think.
Speaker 3: Oh, almost all the Texas ones i'm aware of are.
There's this one where it's a red one sheet. There's
a black and white image of two really preppy looking
mod girls on it, and there's a really groovy, white
wormy title on it called like Heads or Tails Are
Someone and Someone that's not available anywhere. I've only seen
one one sheet of it. There's a couple. But AFI
has almost everything. Yeah, I've tried to.
Speaker 4: I've started, because sometimes you'll see posts why haven't heard
of this, and then you'll notice one one cast name
that has been only briefly changed, and you're like, I
wonder if that's this movie?
Speaker 3: Yeah exactly, especially some of those later driving ones in
the seventies, like House of Chains or those really weird
stock posters title. Yeah, exactly. I tried to start making
a master list of all the lost sixties ones, but
it's such an undertaking.
Speaker 1: I have not.
Speaker 3: Something like that.
Speaker 7: Yeah, you would look through your AFI catalog and just
which I have, and then also and then also be like, okay,
I need to like contact this archive in double check,
and also contact these people as well.
Speaker 4: So, because there's a talking straight exploitation, there's also a
sexploitation that is even less documented well over time, that's tougher,
and that's almost exclusively New York and.
Speaker 3: Los Angeles, San franci San Francisco.
Speaker 4: Mostly LA. We're talking about. Don't know why, but there
were some Frisco people. Oh that's a gay city. Yeah,
but no, we're talking like stuff like the park, the
park Miller.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the sales stuff.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, you're very right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the Shan Sale stuff as a whole, Like there's
a bunch of obscure things of his that aren't on
AFFL including street films, do whatever. Yeah, like how weigh madness.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the problem. There's no one Yeah, there is
no one database because like there's stuff that's not in AFI,
there's stuff that's not on Letterbox. There's stuff that I
mean a lot of. I think IMDb is probably the
closest if you want to actually get an accurate list
because you know, as we've talked about before, like Letterbox
like has their own rules about what's adult or not
and what they want to show, so you can't even
use that as a resource sometimes, but.
Speaker 4: Also something they're taking consideration if you're saying like adults only,
like that also covers at a territory there were studio
films that were adults only, and so yeah, it really
depends on like what your categorization of it is. And
that ties into like another question that I saw that
somebody was asking where it was about, like what was it?
It was? It was the Howard Hughes question where it
was kind of like would you consider these films exploitations?
Speaker 3: No, technically, would you consider Howard Hughes's cinematic efforts as
working towards exploitation almost protos exploitation efforts like The Outlaw.
Speaker 4: I would that the movie was advertised using Jane Russell's breasts.
That was the entire reason that movie was made. It
led to the invention of a bra uh you know
it was it gone to censorship problems because of breasts.
Speaker 2: That is it is.
Speaker 4: It fits the definition of his exploitation, even though it
is one of the most boring films ever made and
she is not good in it. Another took a decade
for her to figure out what she wanted to do and.
Speaker 3: So proved what audiences were wanting. But Hollywood was not
open to going to say things like that. But I
do think that like occasionally some of these like smaller
independent films that weren't going out through the exploitation circuits
just kind of reinforced, Yeah, things like cleavage, things like
women in bondage, like like like actual adventure films from
like the thirties and forties were what actually inspired bondage
artwork in photography because those were what was requested the
most in movie photo like stores and stuff like that.
Women tied up in peril, and then people like the
every Claw was like, why don't I just start doing
these myself? Right in things? You know, people are obviously
liking this. I'll just start this college industry, right But.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so they answer to that question is yes, but
then it is but yeah, tying it to that, it's like,
we don't know. Yeah, making an adults only list is difficult,
and making even this exploitation less is difficult because when
you look at like the films of like a Brenner
or a Michigan, those aren't sex films. There exploitation films
there foreign imports that are like maybe spiced up with
some inserts sometimes maybe not. Sometimes maybe they were just
put out as is with a great advertising campaign.
Speaker 2: So that they have the aura if they have that
aura of like European sexiness and adult.
Speaker 4: Rates, or even like my Zeling's movies in the sixties,
like Night Games is like that would be advertised as
an exploitation movie, it's not. It's an artistic movie. Summer
with Monica. The Bergman movie advertises expectation. So it's like,
if you're gonna do, if anyone's gonna do a list
like that, I feel like you have to have a
more solid set of criteria, and that will mean that
makes that that means that like any any list would
be INDI it would be specific to what its creators
criteria are. I don't think there's any general criteria. So
that's why there isn't a list that exists like this,
because it's not like, well, I would include this time idle,
but this guy isn't because he doesn't think it's exploitation.
Speaker 3: Like I wouldn't. The only thing, the only thing I
could think of was explicitly produced pretty much to apply
to purring interest.
Speaker 4: Yes, which is a classical definition of pornography where it's designed.
Speaker 3: Because isn't really that for the most part. But let's
be really here is in essence even though it's but
then we're designed to lightly.
Speaker 4: But then we're to something like I'm Curious, Yellow Fallen,
where it's not designed to arouse.
Speaker 3: I would call.
Speaker 4: Sex is part. It was advertised it was it was.
Speaker 3: I'm thinking specifically produced exploitation films. I'm not thinking of
anything adjacent. I'm thinking I'm trying to narrow it down.
I'm trying to narrow it down. My definition normally is
not even stuff like Pink Pussy even for the most
part it is. That's why that is produced with.
Speaker 4: The I couldn't go by that list. That's why I
feel like that for me, that list would be incomplete.
And so that's why it's like, I don't think there
could be a master list, because it's just it's like saying,
because I don't have a master list of every drama
ever made. And it's kind of like, do you include
things with comedy in it? Do you include westerns that
are dramatic? Do you include action that has tear jerker zines?
And like that's sexpotations is a broad thing and adults
only is even a broad such a broad thing? I
think that's such a crazy endeavor to my mind that
I just I couldn't even possibly do it.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I hate those letterbox lists that are like, oh, here's
an erotic triple X films three thousands.
Speaker 4: Just like what's there's that's on it? Where there's what
is it? It's like, uh, movies about emotions, and I'm
just like every movie has some.
Speaker 2: Or even films for perverts.
Speaker 3: Yeah, or I hope they're not listening. I hope you're
not listening. Someone did a rough list and just did
every single black and whites exploitation film.
Speaker 4: I'm like, it's like, it's not a rusty.
Speaker 3: I'm like, no, no, like black and white does not
mean rough roughy.
Speaker 4: You know, you know what We're wrong.
Speaker 3: It's didn't that like huh no?
Speaker 4: Crazy? And then are they leaving out stuff like Pamela,
Pamela you Are or the Animal because there's color sequences.
Speaker 3: I saw the Animal in that. I think. Yeah, I
was very I was like, what, okay, you don't know
what you're talking about?
Speaker 4: That count it has a color sequence, so I don't know. Yeah, okay,
like Naked Pursuit. Naked Pursuit has color sequence. Daydream as
color color sequences. So yeah, that's the thing. Lists are nuts,
and lists are really good for Like I think the
list that I follow mean I have to know what
the criteria is. And then I'm like, yes, I also
subscribe to that criteria and this is what I'm looking for,
and that's you know, but I really have to know
what the criteria is. I can't just kind of be like, oh, yeah,
this is sex movies exclamation point. I'm just like, how
did you decide to make this list? Yes?
Speaker 3: I hate to be that. I hate to be that
one judge, but to me, it's just I know it
when I see it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree, I use that why we use that
to describe things way more than I probably should. But yes,
I you know when you see it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's man, I just do.
Speaker 2: I don't want to tell right exactly right, but yeah,
for the person who asked that question, you know, I
think they said that they don't use yet letterbox that much,
but yeah, it can be. It can. Letterbox is useful
for that for creating your own list or finding or
finding good lists.
Speaker 4: Yes, that like to come to new lists and Chris
to go to and Chris's list. I like all those
and follow all those because I know exactly what those
lists are and what they're doing. And there are other
lists like and the Pinky Violence list. I'm like, Okay,
I need to see all the pinky violence. And even
if it's stuff that's like this doesn't seem like pinky violence,
but it's adjacent enough that I want to see it.
Speaker 3: You know, I'd love to see both of you do
a sixties exploitation personal taste list. I'd love to see
both of yours versions of that. I do have I
have one, but like, I'd love to see what you
two is just overall would be yeah.
Speaker 4: I should well see. And I was trying to do
that with all my rankings, the something weird stuff, but
I've fallen off of that, so but then I wouldn't. Yeah,
I'll have to think about it. All I know is
that Mesker's stuff would be at the bottom.
Speaker 3: I include a single Metsker on mine my personal taste one.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's Teresa and Isabelle. That's kind of it for
me in terms of soft course, that and Liquors Quartet
are kind of it for me. And then he I
think I discussed we discussed this in a chat where
he met Jerry Douglas. Got a sense of humor. And
then his hardcore is great because it's funny. Yeah yeah,
and it's like, yeah, he stopped taking himself so fucking seriously,
and that's what made his movies good. It's like he
has fun with them. It took a gay man, the
gay playwright to co direct a movie with him to
be like, you know what, this is just fun, have
fun with it, take themselves so seriously your proteck. Yeah,
I cannot stand Metzger. Sorry, yeah, we will know. We
will do an episode on Metzker, but and I will
try to be in my best behavior, but we'll see yea.
Speaker 3: Even in the eighties he would walk into the office
in shirtless with just an ascot on. That's just.
Speaker 4: Metzger was brand for him.
Speaker 3: The stories I've heard of Metzger, yeah, just I have
a number of one.
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