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Speaker 1: Welcome to episode ninety four of Get Out Alive, the

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podcast about animal attacks, why they happen, and how we

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can avoid them. In this episode, we're continuing to share

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stories from federal employees who are wrongfully terminated before I

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even continue. Look, I completely understand some of your frustration

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about talking about politics, because this is a podcast primarily

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about animal tacks and you might want a break from politics.

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We all do. Some of you want me to just

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state facts and not my opinions, especially my political ones.

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But what I stated last week in our last uppisode

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was not even really my opinion. I was factually stating

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what was happening in the US in regards to federal terminations.

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With this podcast, I do my best to stay in

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my lane as a wildlife biologist, because it's not my

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place or my expertise to comment on other things like

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the economy, for example, because there are other podcasts that

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you can go to for experts talking about those topics.

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But I will always use my platform here to talk

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about issues affecting our environment, wildlife, and the people who

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dedicate their lives to protecting those resources for all of us.

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You are allowed to listen to any other podcast anytime

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you want, and I can assure you we will continue

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to talk about animal tacks after this episode, and in fact,

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our next episode is with a federal employee who was

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attacked on the job. This week, we're talking to Liz Crandall,

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a former ranger at the Shoots National Forest and Oregon.

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After our talk, I'll share more write in stories from

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other wrongfully terminated employees, and we'll talk about where everyone

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stands now, including Alex and Cheyenne from part one of

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this episode last week. Let's get into it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, my name is Liz Cranbell and I grew up

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in Oregon, but I've moved around a lot of places

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in my life. I've lived in California, New Orleans, Florida, Wyoming.

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I've lived a lot of places, but pretty much from Oregon,

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though I always end up going back there. And right

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now I live in Bend, and that's where I was

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based out of for my job, which was a field

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ranger with the US for Service on the Dshoots National Forest,

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and I went to school for Tourism, Recreation and Venture Leadership.

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I got a Bachelor of Science and a minor in

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natural resources from Oregon State University Cascades Campus in Bend,

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and it's a kind of a unique program. It was

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a lot of learning how to be a leader in

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the outdoor and a lot of like ecology based classes,

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wildlife ecology or biology, I mean, and yeah, all sorts

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of stuff. And so I've always kind of been an

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outdoorsy person. I've always loved nature and just being in

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the outdoors is so rewarding and it just makes me

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feel at home. So that's why I wanted to build

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a career in that, and so that's where I ended

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up working for the Forest Service eventually.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and so did you grow you up like always

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know that you wanted to be a ranger or did

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you like know what your options were? Because for me personally,

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like when you grow up and say, oh I love animals,

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everyone's like be a vet. That's all you've got. So

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I don't know if that was also your experience where

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you didn't know what your options were or if you

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were like ranger, like this is what I.

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Speaker 2: Wanted to buy. So I was really confused growing up.

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I didn't have the best childhood and we moved around

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a lot, and it was just it was just kind

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of chaotic for lack of better term, and so I

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never even had the energy or time to focus on

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like what do I want to do one day? It

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was more like how do I survive each day? So

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then once I graduated high school, I was super restless

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and I just was like, I need to do something

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interesting and weird. So I was always a big fan

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of like Jack Kerouac and what do You Got Three?

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And you know, people like that, and it was very

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like romanticizing of traveling. So I actually hitchhiked across the

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country when I was nineteen, freshly nineteen. It was January first,

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twenty twelve. Yeah, So I just I met these people

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that were like, yeah, we train hop and hitchhike, and

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I was like, you can do that, and they're like, yeah,

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we do it all the time. I was like, can

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I come with you? And they were just like, I guess,

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are you sure you're ready for that? I was like, yeah,

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I'm ready. Like I don't need anything, I'm just gonna

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sell all my stuff and let's go and yeah. And

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then that's how I ended up in New Orleans. I

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ended up just traveling through there and I fell in

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love with the city and met some really cool people,

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and so I ended up staying there for a few years,

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and then long story short, I ended up working a

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seasonal concessionaire job in Yellowstone National Park, not with the

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Park Service, unfortunately, but it was still an amazing experience

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just living in the park for a summer. And that

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was when I started to realize, like, oh, I want

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to work outside. I've always loved the outdoors, and now

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I know that there's career options in that. And so

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that's how I ended up getting my motivation for being

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a ranger.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so like, what was your path to becoming a ranger.

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Speaker 2: I moved back to Eugene, Oregon, and because I used

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to live there when I was younger and I had

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friends there, and it was after working in Yellowstone I

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knew I didn't want to go back to Florida. I

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didn't like living there. No offense, Florida, you have beauty,

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but it wasn't for me. So I went back to

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Eugene and I started getting really into hiking because I

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was hiking in Yellowstone, but I was so woefully unprepared

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and young and just naive. So I started getting more

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into researching it and having like the ten essentials and

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being prepared in the outdoors and making sure that I

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don't like die out there. So I got some hiking

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books and there was this waterfall called Lower trustle Balls

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and I was like, okay, I'm going to go find that.

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And I was in Cottage Grove on the Qui National

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Forest and I was driving through and I see this

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ranger station and I like lit up. I was like,

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oh my god, there's a range station here, like this

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close Eugene. That's amazing. Like I'll go in and see

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if I can volunteer. So I went in every week

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and like bug them and I was like, please, can

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I be a volunteer? And they're like, yeah, we'll call you,

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and they never called me, so I was getting frustrated.

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So I just kept showing them up. And the front

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desk girl who ended up being my friend later, but

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she was just like oh my god. Every time I

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walk in, She's like what what what do you want?

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I was like, I just want to volunteer. And so

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then she like went the back and like grabbed some

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people and was and was like okay, like come back,

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we'll talk to you. And it was my eventual supervisor, Jed.

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And then who is the recreation staff leader and then

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a wildlife biologist, a botanist, and me, So that the

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four of us sat at the table and they were

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just like can we help you? Like what the hell

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do you want? And I was like, I know, I'm crazy,

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I know, I just it feels right. I want to volunteer,

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Like where do you guys need help? I don't care,

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like I'll do anything. And they're like, okay, you can

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help us pull weeds on the forest. And then the

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other guy was like, you can help me with campgrounds.

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And then the other guy's like, oh, I needed you

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spot owl surveys. Would you like to see what that's about?

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And so I was just like yes, yes, yes, And

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that's how I started. And then they all really liked

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me and my weird tenacity, and then I was hired

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on the next year as a seasonal emergency higher and

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then seasonal seasons for years after that.

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Speaker 1: Wow. So did they like make a position for you? Essentially?

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Speaker 2: No, The guy that was in it was a really

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small ranger district and it actually got absorbed into another

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major district now so, but there was only one recreation

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technician for the entire district. Wow, And he kind of sucked.

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So he ended up actually get fired, and which was

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very good that he was, because yeah, he was not

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a good person. And so then the job was open,

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so they were like, hey, you want it, Yeah, so helly. Yeah,

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it was really unique situation because a lot of other people,

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like it's really hard to get in with the federal government,

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especially if you didn't have much experience like I did

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at the time, So it was I was very lucky,

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but also I mean at the same time, like I

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got it for myself because I was really determined.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Like maybe you were lucky that he got fired,

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but you also like put in so much work and

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time just bugging them, which I feel like goes a

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long way. So that's great. Yeah, especially like in this field.

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I it's interesting, like the wildlife biology kind of like

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environmental field. There's like no set path, which is really cool,

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which I appreciate. Like I have had so many weird

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jobs over the years, Like I've worked in a bunch

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of labs and like in a mine and now I

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work with animals every day, So it's like whatever you're doing,

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you can still have that job if you try hard

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enough and like put in the time. Yeah, like volunteer,

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like you said, so you did that for a few

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seasons as like a seasonal. So when you got hired

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full time, what was it that you were doing?

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Speaker 2: I So I was a seasonal field ranger, and it's

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called ten thirty nine is the term, because you work

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one thousand thirty nine hours in your season and then

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once you cap out, you're done, and then you can

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come back next year if they want you back or whatever.

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So that's what I was doing for a long time.

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And I got a seasonal ten thirty nine field ranger

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job on the to shoots and then there was and

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that was in twenty twenty two, and then twenty twenty

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three there was some surprise funding that showed up in

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the for service and they're like, hey, we're going to

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do this mass hiring event for permanence. And so the

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job was already created because it was seasonal, but they

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made it a permanent position instead, and I was able

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to be directly hired because I'm under Schedule A, which

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is disability higher, so I was able to not have

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to go through USA jobs and do all the hoops

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and be competitive. So I was considered accepted service, which

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just means like you're an exception to this probationary one year.

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Now you're a two year probationary and you're able to

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come in and get vetted and you just have to

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do it for two years instead. And I would have

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had my two years up this November, So I was

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in that permanent position for over a year.

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Speaker 1: Gotcha? And what were you doing, like as a ranger?

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Because I feel like when I hear the term ranger,

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I think, like, you know, you're walking around the woods

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waiting for people to like need help or things like that.

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So like, what was the specific like stuff that you

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were doing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's such a funny term because ranger, I think

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a lot of people think of National Park Service like

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with the big hat and yeah, the suit and everything.

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And I mean I do have a pickle suit as

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what we call it. It's like the green pants with

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the tan shirt and the badge. And I did wear

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that on like the busier days or if I was

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doing more interpretive work or something where I needed to

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like look more for fessional because usually I would just

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wear my normal field ranger shirt that had like the

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badge and like field ranger to shoots. And because I

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picked up a lot of trash, so I didn't want

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to get my nice uniformal gross. But our field ranger

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position was unique for two shoots because usually field rangers

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on it's called Region six so Washington State and Oregon,

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usually field rangers are more interpretive. It was created as

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an interpretive role, but on the shoots they decided to

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turn it into a dispersed recreation role, which means like

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dispersed is just anywhere remote in the woods, like it's

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there's no facilities, it's not designated wilderness. It's just kind

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of like that random road you're driving down. You're like,

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where am I in the middle of nowhere? That was

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my area that I would patrol, and I would do

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trash mitigation. I would make sure that people weren't overstaying

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their fourteen day limit. Mean dispersed sites, which are free

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and unfortunately there is a big houseless homeless issue in

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Oregon and just in the country in general, but in

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central Orgon we had quite a few people that were

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living out in the woodside. I would kind of help

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try to work with them, but I'm not a mental

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health expert, so it was kind of more like I'd

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just passed them along to law enforcement. But speaking of that,

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I was a forest protection officer, so I had my

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certification to be able to issue citations for legal activity,

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and I wrote tickets for people having possession of fireworks,

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which is illegal on national forest land. I've written one

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for natural resource damage somebody was ripping up a really

241
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nice meadow with their quad. And then as well as

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like overcamping a fourteenth day limit. So I have helped

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a law enforcement a lot in that role as well.

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And then lastly, a big one is campfire like abandoned

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campfire mitigation because a lot of people still don't know

246
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how to put how a fire efficiently, which is unfortunate.

247
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But that's why I was out there because I was

248
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able to monitor all these disperse sites that I personally mapped.

249
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I did this whole gis Field maps endeavor where I've

250
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did an entire layout of every single disperse site on

251
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our district, which is a lot. There's hundreds of them.

252
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So I was the main person that controlled that and

253
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made sure that things were clean, people weren't overstaying there,

254
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weren't abandoned campfires, and the legal activity was at a

255
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minimum hopefully. So that was in a nutshell that's what

256
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I did. I did a lot of other stuff too,

257
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but that's like the basics.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, just before we move on from it, because I

259
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have never thought about this, how do you properly put

260
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out a campfire?

261
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you want to drown it, so you

262
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want to put as much water on it as you can,

263
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and then you want to stir it and drown it again,

264
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and you kind of just like keep doing that until

265
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it no longer steams like you want it to be cold.

266
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Speaker 1: Oh okaytch, so gotcha.

267
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Speaker 2: But a lot of people will just like leave it

268
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with like embers burning, and if you're in like like

269
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wildfire risk behavior type of weather, even just that little

270
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kernel of an ember can be blown by the wind

271
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and create a catastrophic welfare. It happens every year, so

272
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oh yeah, we have to be really serious about in

273
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those out It's just I mean, the West is historically

274
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burning more and more every summer.

275
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Speaker 1: So yeah, did you have to do with any wildfires

276
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like in your area as a ranger?

277
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Speaker 2: Yeah? Many, I in the shoots, I probably worked on

278
00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:18,279
maybe like seven or eight wildfire incidents like big ones.

279
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Before that, I worked on a couple others when I

280
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was on the National Forest as well, So yeah, they're

281
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on quite a few, and not just as a firefighter

282
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type two. I did that when I was younger, and

283
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before I had knee surgery, I was like actually fighting

284
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fire on the line and working on an engine. And

285
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then yeah, and then once I had knee surgery and

286
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I wasn't able to do the pack test, which is

287
00:14:40,159 --> 00:14:42,480
the physical tests that you have to take to make

288
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sure that you are able to do this crazy work

289
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:47,720
that they do in the field. So I became a

290
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resource advisor and an incident security manager. So I would

291
00:14:51,679 --> 00:14:54,960
help keep the public out of the closures because they

292
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love to go past closures and get themselves in danger. Yeah,

293
00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,120
I mean it's a lot of people like are curious

294
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and they just want to take pictures of why they're drone,

295
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which is totally illegal and you can't do that, but

296
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people do it anyways. So I would be there to

297
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make sure that's not happening. And then also with resource

298
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advising is when you go out and you're able to

299
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help identify trees that that you don't want them to

300
00:15:16,279 --> 00:15:18,519
cut or other resources that you're like be careful of this,

301
00:15:18,759 --> 00:15:20,519
like we want to make sure that we protect it.

302
00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,519
Because a lot of times firefighters a lot of them

303
00:15:23,559 --> 00:15:26,039
aren't trained in like the ecological side of things, so

304
00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:29,720
they're more focused on their task at hand. They're cutting

305
00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,679
trees that are burning, they're digging line their dozers, all

306
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sorts of stuff. So you're there to be like, hey,

307
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make sure you guys aren't getting this one, and they're like, okay, cool.

308
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So yeah, I did that kind of stuff for the

309
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:41,279
last few years.

310
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Speaker 1: Nice. That's super cool. So did you also ever have

311
00:15:45,519 --> 00:15:48,320
to respond to people who were like in distress or

312
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like lost or anything like that.

313
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Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, I remember one time there was on the

314
00:15:54,679 --> 00:15:57,200
Upqua this woman was I can't I'm not making this up.

315
00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,200
This woman was wearing like a pink tarry suit and

316
00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:02,279
she had like one water bottle and it was empty.

317
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It was like a plastic water boddle. She comes running

318
00:16:04,559 --> 00:16:06,799
up to me because I was picking up trash from

319
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,679
the cxt's the bathrooms at different trailheads. She comes up

320
00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:12,559
to me and she's like, oh my god, can you

321
00:16:12,559 --> 00:16:14,000
give me a ride to my car? I don't know

322
00:16:14,039 --> 00:16:16,320
where I am. I was like, where did you start?

323
00:16:16,399 --> 00:16:18,440
Like where's your car? And she was like, well, I

324
00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:20,559
don't know, I've never done this trail before, and I

325
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,240
was like, do you have any gear? Do do you

326
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,080
have a bag somewhere? Did you set it down? She

327
00:16:24,159 --> 00:16:25,679
said no, I just went with water. And I was

328
00:16:25,759 --> 00:16:28,559
like okay. And this trail was like I think eight

329
00:16:28,639 --> 00:16:31,600
miles one way and she was at the end of it.

330
00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,320
That means she had probably hiked that much. And I

331
00:16:34,399 --> 00:16:36,639
was just like, oh my gosh. And we're not supposed

332
00:16:36,639 --> 00:16:39,200
to give people rides in our government vehicles, so I

333
00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,360
had to like help her find somebody to give her

334
00:16:41,399 --> 00:16:45,679
a ride. And yeah, I never knew what happened to her.

335
00:16:45,679 --> 00:16:47,639
I was just like, I mean, yeah, like I said,

336
00:16:47,679 --> 00:16:49,440
I can't put you in my truck, but I can

337
00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:51,399
help you find someone else, or I can go to

338
00:16:51,399 --> 00:16:54,240
town and make a phone call. Yeah, that kind of

339
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:55,879
stuff happens all the time. I've also found a lot

340
00:16:55,919 --> 00:16:59,879
of lost dogs over the years, which was a sopra. Yeah,

341
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,559
sometimes it was sad because I found them deceased, but

342
00:17:03,639 --> 00:17:05,519
other times it was really happy and it was like,

343
00:17:05,519 --> 00:17:07,200
oh my god, we found the family dog.

344
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Speaker 1: Yeah.

345
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it happens a lot. People get like, especially during

346
00:17:11,079 --> 00:17:13,720
Fourth of July that people will illegally set off fireworks

347
00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:16,279
and then the dogs will go running and then yeah,

348
00:17:16,279 --> 00:17:18,160
I hear about it, and I'll just be driving a

349
00:17:18,279 --> 00:17:20,559
random road and then I'll see a dog and I'm like,

350
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,400
what are you doing here? Yeah? That cat wants too.

351
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:26,839
Speaker 1: Oh man, oh god. I can't even imagine how many

352
00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:29,039
cats are just like wandering around national forests and parks

353
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and stuff like that.

354
00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:33,200
Speaker 2: It's they are really don't last long, which is sad,

355
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:35,200
but yeah, I have found one that was alive.

356
00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:39,319
Speaker 1: Nice. So how big is the Shoots and like, what

357
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:41,960
are the main activities that people were doing there?

358
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,160
Speaker 2: The Shoots is massive. I think it's like one point

359
00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,480
something million acres. It's really big. Yeah, it's a really

360
00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:53,440
big forest. Especially my district, ben Fort Rock Ranger District

361
00:17:53,519 --> 00:17:55,720
is huge. It's the biggest one of the three. The

362
00:17:55,759 --> 00:18:00,000
other two are Sisters and Crescent and they're both yeah,

363
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,279
pretty small, especially in comparison to BFR. We call it

364
00:18:03,519 --> 00:18:08,279
and our most popular attractions are the Dishoots River. That's

365
00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:12,079
like a big recreation based. People are fishing there, they

366
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:16,359
were whitewater rafting, floating like it's just a really popular spot.

367
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,240
And then we have a few different wildernesses. We have

368
00:18:19,279 --> 00:18:23,160
the three Sisters of Wilderness Diamond Peak Wilderness, Jefferson Wilderness,

369
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,319
not Washington Wilderness. Like, we have so much beautiful remote

370
00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:28,440
areas and so people go out there to go backpacking

371
00:18:28,519 --> 00:18:32,000
or mountaineering or whatever it is, hiking especially. We have

372
00:18:32,079 --> 00:18:35,440
like a really strict permit system for our wilderness areas

373
00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,839
because it's just so overrun with people and we're finding

374
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:42,279
human waste everywhere and it was just really out of control.

375
00:18:42,519 --> 00:18:45,000
So yeah, it was really bad and a lot of people.

376
00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:48,599
It's very mixed and bend in Central organ It's people.

377
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:50,799
Some people are really for it and they're great and

378
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,240
supportive of it, and other people are just so against it,

379
00:18:53,279 --> 00:18:56,880
And yeah, that was that's an issue for sure. But yeah,

380
00:18:57,119 --> 00:18:58,839
that's that's like a lot of what people will do.

381
00:18:58,839 --> 00:19:01,039
We have a lot of mountain biking trails, some really

382
00:19:01,079 --> 00:19:04,279
famous ones Fills area. That's a big area that I

383
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,960
used to patrol. And yeah, there's just so much recreation

384
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,759
and so much to do out there, and it's very

385
00:19:11,799 --> 00:19:14,480
prone to fire. It's a very dry forest. In the summer,

386
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,960
you pretty much can only have a campfire basically up

387
00:19:18,039 --> 00:19:19,839
to fourth of July and then it's like all right,

388
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:20,279
no more.

389
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:24,720
Speaker 1: Oh man, it's how many people. Do you get a

390
00:19:24,799 --> 00:19:26,599
year there if you know, I.

391
00:19:26,559 --> 00:19:30,440
Speaker 2: Think the number what it was a lot of like

392
00:19:31,519 --> 00:19:35,279
over a million who just because Central Organ, Yeah, Central

393
00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:41,039
organ is a really booming place. It's grown exponentially in

394
00:19:41,079 --> 00:19:44,519
the last twenty years. Every year it just expands more

395
00:19:44,559 --> 00:19:46,720
and more. And that's really hard for the forest because

396
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:48,799
the forest doesn't get bigger, right, like, it stays the

397
00:19:48,799 --> 00:19:53,599
same size. So it's hard because, yeah, the overuse is

398
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:58,000
very apparent, and with expansion comes a lot more people

399
00:19:58,079 --> 00:20:01,160
being pushed out, and so then we get more houselessness

400
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,400
in our in our forests. So it's just like a

401
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,880
there's a lot of domino effects that comes with the area.

402
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,839
But it is very popular. We have a scenic byway,

403
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:14,799
Cascie Lakes Highway. It's really beautiful, so yeah, times of

404
00:20:14,799 --> 00:20:16,920
people will come just to drive that and see the

405
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:20,920
lakes and the mountains and yeah, it's just it's really beautiful.

406
00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,519
Speaker 1: Nice And do you guys have like a lot of

407
00:20:24,599 --> 00:20:27,839
human wildlife conflict with the growing amount of people who

408
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,119
are going into the forest, and like what kinds of

409
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,359
animals do people bump into the most.

410
00:20:33,599 --> 00:20:36,759
Speaker 2: It's not as bad as other places, like in California

411
00:20:36,799 --> 00:20:39,279
with bears. It's not like that. We do have bears,

412
00:20:39,319 --> 00:20:42,319
but they're so skittish and elusive you don't really see

413
00:20:42,319 --> 00:20:44,640
them often at all, and then just shoots. I've seen

414
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,640
them like twice in my few years i've been here,

415
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,240
and that was in the middle of nowhere. Yeah, but no,

416
00:20:51,319 --> 00:20:53,039
I mean, we have a lot of issues with like

417
00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,240
the stuff that you normally would see, like people feeding

418
00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:01,200
birds and like little critters like chipmunks, so many squirrels.

419
00:21:01,599 --> 00:21:04,400
And then we also have a really rare species this

420
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:08,440
year in Nevada, red fox, which is endangered and there's

421
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,160
not very many left in Oregon. And we actually have

422
00:21:11,319 --> 00:21:15,400
a few dens along Casti Lakes Highway and I've seen

423
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:19,039
them many times driving like they're unfortunately. We have this

424
00:21:19,079 --> 00:21:22,039
one resort on the lake and the employees were feeding

425
00:21:22,039 --> 00:21:26,640
it cheese. Oh it's such a rare animal and they're like, yeah,

426
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,000
he just hangs out with us, and I'm like, oh

427
00:21:29,039 --> 00:21:31,839
my god. Every time i'd see one, I know, every

428
00:21:31,839 --> 00:21:34,279
time I've seen what, I'd report it to Wildlife, the

429
00:21:34,319 --> 00:21:37,119
program at the forest, and yeah, they did a lot

430
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,559
of surveys for them as well. So that was that's

431
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:41,680
kind of forefront of my mind because I saw them

432
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:43,839
so much and I saw a lot of public interaction

433
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:45,000
with them unfortunately.

434
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,440
Speaker 1: Yikes. Yeah, well you're saying too that there was spotted owls,

435
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,400
So do you have spotted owls in the forest that

436
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:51,279
people keep an eye on?

437
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:57,200
Speaker 2: Historically? There were, but I mean it's hard because I

438
00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,960
think that's kind of like a more like sensitive sea

439
00:22:00,079 --> 00:22:03,240
grit subject that they don't like to share info about.

440
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,279
So I mean, I'll just say historically they have been there,

441
00:22:06,519 --> 00:22:08,440
But I mean we have a lot of issues with

442
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,720
the bar owl and logging and you know, all that

443
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,480
fun stuff that people love to debate about. The timber

444
00:22:15,519 --> 00:22:19,599
wars in Oregon are very famous, so yeah, that's people

445
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:21,799
still remember that and talk about it. So yeah, it's

446
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,400
it's hard. But when I worked on Unquah, we had

447
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,039
actually a few, quite a few spotted owls that we

448
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,319
had found on surveys. It was really cool. Yeah, and

449
00:22:30,799 --> 00:22:34,119
the tree bowls because they're main food source for them,

450
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,160
so that was like really cool to see those two

451
00:22:36,519 --> 00:22:37,440
nice cool.

452
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:40,839
Speaker 1: So a lot going on at the place that you

453
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:44,799
were working at, between like recreation and wildlife wildfires, So

454
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:49,480
how many rangers were there for my program?

455
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,119
Speaker 2: There was three of us, but one of them was

456
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,519
the supervisor, so he was often in the office doing

457
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:59,880
program implementation, planning, coordinating, et cetera. So it was me

458
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,000
and one other person that did the entire Benfort Rock

459
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,759
dispersed areas, which is massive. Like I said, it would

460
00:23:05,759 --> 00:23:08,920
take multiple days to drive every road on our district,

461
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,119
Like it's so big and we can't patrol all the time. Yeah,

462
00:23:12,319 --> 00:23:14,599
we have other things we're doing too, Like we're creating signs,

463
00:23:14,839 --> 00:23:18,440
We're helping with trails, we're helping with closures with fire,

464
00:23:18,079 --> 00:23:21,839
we're assisting other programs like developed recreation in the busy

465
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,559
time because they just get so overwhelmed. So yeah, I

466
00:23:24,599 --> 00:23:27,200
mean now that I'm gone because I have been fired,

467
00:23:27,519 --> 00:23:30,680
it was you know, there's only one person now to

468
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,720
patrol that whole area. Wow, it's just crazy. Yeah, And

469
00:23:34,759 --> 00:23:38,319
I mean we have law enforcement, but they're busy, like

470
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,400
they are constantly getting calls, Like they can't just patrol

471
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,240
around and like do what we do, Like they have

472
00:23:43,319 --> 00:23:45,200
to have specific mission points.

473
00:23:45,599 --> 00:23:48,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. Also not to mention like you were saying, it's

474
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,200
not like they have the environmental background and wherewithal like

475
00:23:52,319 --> 00:23:55,960
that is very specific to your position. So yeah, let's

476
00:23:56,000 --> 00:24:00,839
get into what your termination was like and how you

477
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:05,200
were told what was going down, like what your supervisors

478
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,400
knew or didn't know, that kind of thing.

479
00:24:08,839 --> 00:24:12,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it was all shocking. I mean, ever since

480
00:24:12,759 --> 00:24:16,920
the new administration came in, it's just been a chaotic mess.

481
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:19,720
But there were some things before them, because I think

482
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,400
it's really important to identify this because I think some

483
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,720
people don't acknowledge it because it's there's so much other

484
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:29,599
things happening that it's like, Yeah, So in December under Biden,

485
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,640
we had this order that we couldn't hire any seasonal

486
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,039
ten thirty nine employees for the summer. Just never happened before.

487
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,680
We're like, what, we rely so hard on our seasonals,

488
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,599
that's insane. So that was the first big blow. So

489
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,880
we were already and we were already understaffed too, like

490
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,799
the federal government, like the for Service, like we even

491
00:24:48,839 --> 00:24:51,799
when we got funding for permanents, still was like kind

492
00:24:51,799 --> 00:24:54,119
of putting a band aid on an open wound. You know,

493
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,200
it's like it helps for now, but like, you know,

494
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:01,079
we need more. So then fast forward, all these different

495
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,480
executive orders are coming out. People are starting to feel

496
00:25:03,519 --> 00:25:07,440
like uncertain and confused and then on January thirtieth, our

497
00:25:07,599 --> 00:25:11,559
connect HR, which is our Human Resources information there was

498
00:25:11,599 --> 00:25:14,920
a message on the dashboard that said, starting today, you

499
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,119
and your supervisor will no longer have access to your

500
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:21,160
performance evaluations. Will update when that changes, and we were like,

501
00:25:21,279 --> 00:25:26,599
that's really weird. Why are performance evaluations being blocked? That's

502
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,160
really strange. I mean we didn't like download and save

503
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,319
these because they've always just been a portal. We've never

504
00:25:31,599 --> 00:25:34,279
and you don't usually need them to prove employment either.

505
00:25:34,279 --> 00:25:37,480
It usually s F fifty, which is your employee form.

506
00:25:37,559 --> 00:25:40,319
And then just the evaluations are like and I was, great,

507
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:42,680
here you go. I mean I've never used them in

508
00:25:42,759 --> 00:25:45,240
a job application. It's just like if they want to

509
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,200
see them, they can. But anyways, so that was weird.

510
00:25:48,279 --> 00:25:51,240
And then there was all this talk of like, oh,

511
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:55,200
make sure you know, identify everyone who's probationary and in

512
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,799
their permanent role, and it was just like, okay, that's weird.

513
00:25:59,079 --> 00:26:02,279
And then a bunch of us got emails from HR

514
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,920
that just all it said was you are a probationary employee.

515
00:26:06,559 --> 00:26:09,240
And I never got one, and neither did one of

516
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,119
my other coworkers, and we were both probationary which just

517
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,640
to give listeners a background on that is. Probationary just

518
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,000
means it's like your trial period before you're vetted and

519
00:26:19,039 --> 00:26:21,960
put into competitive service, so that you can apply for

520
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,400
all the different permanent positions without having to do the

521
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:26,519
whole USA jobs go through all the hoops, et cetera.

522
00:26:26,599 --> 00:26:29,440
You can just apply from internally and then it's way

523
00:26:29,519 --> 00:26:32,559
easier and it's really competitive for a reason, because that's

524
00:26:32,599 --> 00:26:34,400
a great position to be in, to be able to

525
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,319
just move around. That's how you advance your career, and

526
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,839
there's so many different opportunities. So anyways, probationary is kind

527
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,599
of like making sure you're not a piece of shit,

528
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,559
I guess for back of a better term, like if

529
00:26:46,599 --> 00:26:50,400
you really suck, it gives you that jurisdiction you have

530
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,480
to cause though, right, yeah, it has to be either

531
00:26:52,519 --> 00:26:55,880
poor misconduct just like you're doing illegal stuff or things

532
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,039
that's wildly inappropriate or whatever it may be. Or you

533
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:03,200
have performance evaluations, which every quarter of the year we

534
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,440
have we sit down with our supervisor and we go through, Okay,

535
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,160
what are your goals in your position for this summer

536
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,240
whatever time of year it is, and then okay, how

537
00:27:12,279 --> 00:27:14,720
did you do on this last quarter. You're either fully

538
00:27:14,759 --> 00:27:17,400
successful or you're not successful, and then there is an't

539
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,680
in between, but it's usually one or the other. And

540
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,920
I've always gotten fully successful for all my performance evaluations.

541
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,079
So yeah, anyways, all this weird talk about who's probationary

542
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,839
who's not, and so everyone was on edge. And this

543
00:27:30,039 --> 00:27:33,680
was like a week before the firings. And then on Friday,

544
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:37,279
February fourteenth, that's when we learned that the one year

545
00:27:37,319 --> 00:27:39,640
probationary periods on our forest this is just from my

546
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,559
perspective on our forests were fired, which included a ten

547
00:27:43,599 --> 00:27:46,480
year Marine Corps veteran who was a deputy district ranger,

548
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:50,519
which was wild to me. Wow, worked in the Peace Corps,

549
00:27:50,559 --> 00:27:53,799
lived in Third world countries, like amazing human he got

550
00:27:53,839 --> 00:27:56,240
fired and then yeah, and then like a bunch of

551
00:27:56,279 --> 00:27:58,680
other people, and so I was like, maybe I'm safe

552
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,440
then because I didn't get fired on the fourteenth, Okay.

553
00:28:02,759 --> 00:28:05,160
And then the next day, which is the weekend, and

554
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,440
it's the President's Day weekend, so it's a holiday weekend,

555
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,720
a lot of people on vacation, they're out of town.

556
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,920
It's the weekend, so HR human Resources closed, you know,

557
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:15,759
all this stuff. So anyways, I get a call at

558
00:28:15,799 --> 00:28:19,319
three pm. I didn't recognize the number and it was

559
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,079
the forest supervisor, who's like the top of the chain

560
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,079
on your forest, and then about that is regional and

561
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,759
she calls me and said, I'm so sorry, but you

562
00:28:27,799 --> 00:28:31,680
are being terminated. And I just was like I wasn't

563
00:28:31,759 --> 00:28:33,759
like in total shock because I kind of saw it coming,

564
00:28:33,799 --> 00:28:36,000
because I was just like, this is all so crazy,

565
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,799
but it was so heart wrenching, like I went through

566
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,519
all the stages agree and that whole weekend like crying

567
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,759
and being really angry and just trying to figure out

568
00:28:45,759 --> 00:28:47,559
like what is this? What is happening? And on my

569
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,160
letter she had told me because she called me first

570
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,480
before she sent me the email with my termination letter,

571
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:55,880
she was like, just so you know, this does not

572
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:59,000
reflect what we think. This comes from higher up. This

573
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,640
I'm so sorry. And I read it and it said

574
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,839
you know, based on your performance, the agency no longer

575
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,720
sees you being in public interest, which is insane. And

576
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,160
not for a second did I question myself and think

577
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,119
what Like I was like, no, that's just that's just

578
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:17,799
not true. That's a total lie. That's insane.

579
00:29:18,079 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: Wow. I just when it started happening. I was like,

580
00:29:22,279 --> 00:29:25,240
I don't understand how these people are being told, like, hey,

581
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,680
based on your performance, which has been fully successful for years,

582
00:29:29,079 --> 00:29:31,599
you're not good enough for the public anymore. So One,

583
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:35,480
it's like, then, who is Two? This is coming from

584
00:29:35,519 --> 00:29:38,039
people who don't even know you, Like even the woman

585
00:29:38,039 --> 00:29:39,759
who called you. It's not like she works with you

586
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,480
close enough to even give you a performance evaluation, right.

587
00:29:44,359 --> 00:29:47,079
Speaker 2: No, she's I mean we interact because it's like the borest,

588
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,880
like we go to meetings and stuff together. But yeah, no,

589
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,400
I don't work directly with her ever. It's she's very

590
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,440
high up on the chains. Yeah, it was. It was weird,

591
00:29:56,599 --> 00:30:00,160
and I mean, yeah, there's everything that's been rolling out

592
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,359
since then has just been so bizarre and strange, and

593
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,079
it's all so illegal. And I cannot stress that enough

594
00:30:07,119 --> 00:30:08,920
because there's people that are saying, no, it's not it's like,

595
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,440
this is not an opinion. It is just legitimately not legal.

596
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:17,039
You can't argue with that. Yeah, because OPM, the Office

597
00:30:17,079 --> 00:30:21,799
of Personnel Management, they're like the government HR, like overarching

598
00:30:22,039 --> 00:30:24,880
all these government agencies is OPM, and they do not

599
00:30:25,079 --> 00:30:28,839
have the power to fire people within specific agencies only

600
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,759
your agency has that power. Yet all these agencies just

601
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,119
went with it and we're like, Okay, we'll fire them.

602
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,640
This sucks, but we'll do it. And it's like, you know,

603
00:30:37,839 --> 00:30:40,400
hindsight twenty twenty. But it's like, why do they even

604
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,519
do that? So now I'm feeling all these different emotions.

605
00:30:43,599 --> 00:30:47,200
Obviously I am disgusted by your musk and Doge and

606
00:30:47,799 --> 00:30:52,200
the administration is making horrible, terrible decisions regarding our public

607
00:30:52,279 --> 00:30:54,759
lands and our agencies and our federal workers. Like it's

608
00:30:54,839 --> 00:30:57,400
just like, why are you talking us, Like we are

609
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:01,000
doing such amazing work and we matter. It's just wild

610
00:31:01,079 --> 00:31:04,480
to me. Yeah, I mean, it's just all so strange

611
00:31:04,599 --> 00:31:06,240
and really unfortunate.

612
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, so let's get into so OPM you were saying,

613
00:31:10,359 --> 00:31:12,440
is the one who's been telling these agencies like, hey,

614
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:13,640
here's who you need to let go.

615
00:31:14,799 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they DOGE basically told them, and then they

616
00:31:19,279 --> 00:31:23,599
told the agencies and that's yeah. We've been getting emails

617
00:31:23,599 --> 00:31:27,119
from like weird sources like it's coming from OPM and

618
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,799
it's it's just yeah. And the titles of the emails

619
00:31:29,839 --> 00:31:32,720
were so strange, like fork in the Road, which was bizarre,

620
00:31:33,319 --> 00:31:35,880
which I know some people that took it and they've

621
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,519
still never gotten anything from it as well, which I'm like,

622
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,839
please don't take that deal. It was waving away your rights.

623
00:31:43,119 --> 00:31:48,599
It's so vague. So yeah, it was just yeah, like

624
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:50,960
none of the direction made any sense, and this has

625
00:31:51,039 --> 00:31:55,039
never happened before ever, Like this is all completely new

626
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,880
and just so out of left field.

627
00:31:58,119 --> 00:32:01,039
Speaker 1: Yeah. I guess that's another thing I didn't understand is

628
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,119
if this order is coming from out of your agency

629
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:09,960
and like your district supervisor or whichever was like, hey,

630
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,880
we don't agree with this, then I mean, are they

631
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,400
legally obligated to follow that or could they just been

632
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,359
like no, actually, we're just going to keep her on

633
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:18,640
and keep paying her.

634
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,039
Speaker 2: So that's a great question because it's a lot of

635
00:32:22,079 --> 00:32:25,079
us were wondering too, and there was whisperings and different

636
00:32:25,119 --> 00:32:29,319
talks of well the supervisors were threatened that they would

637
00:32:29,359 --> 00:32:32,200
yet fired if they didn't fire these people. I don't

638
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,920
I mean, again, that's your say. I mean a lot

639
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:36,960
of people have been saying that, so I'm going to

640
00:32:37,359 --> 00:32:39,960
assume that that's probably true, and I wouldn't be a surprise.

641
00:32:40,519 --> 00:32:43,519
But yeah, it's just like, yeah, I feel all these

642
00:32:43,559 --> 00:32:47,160
mixed emotions towards the people that made these decisions in

643
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,599
the first place of doje OPM, which is like awful.

644
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:51,920
But then I'm now I'm looking at the other agencies

645
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,039
and I'm thinking, like, why don't you have our backs,

646
00:32:54,079 --> 00:32:56,359
Like why don't you guys standing up for us and

647
00:32:57,319 --> 00:33:00,680
saying no, Because it's like it's that saying right, like

648
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,319
like I was just following orders doesn't fly, and that's

649
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,680
it's not going to fly, Like you need to be

650
00:33:06,759 --> 00:33:09,640
able to stand up to what's right and what's legal.

651
00:33:09,839 --> 00:33:13,960
Like there are lawyers with the National Federation of Federal Employees,

652
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,319
which is our union, that we're saying all of this

653
00:33:16,359 --> 00:33:18,839
is illegal. You guys like work in the road email

654
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:22,599
that's not legal. They can't allocate funds when it's not

655
00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:26,839
allocated yet. It was only funded through March fourteenth, and

656
00:33:27,119 --> 00:33:29,279
you know, for the government. And then it's like they're saying, oh,

657
00:33:29,279 --> 00:33:31,759
but we'll pay you to sit on your ass until September.

658
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:33,880
It's like you can't say that because you don't know

659
00:33:34,079 --> 00:33:36,039
you actually will be able to do that. And yeah,

660
00:33:36,039 --> 00:33:39,559
so anyways, it's just like all these decisions and all

661
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:45,039
of these like acceptances of all this stuff happening is

662
00:33:45,119 --> 00:33:49,200
just so berserk and I am so wildly confused.

663
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, you know, it's funny going back to

664
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:54,200
what you were saying, where like this started in December.

665
00:33:54,279 --> 00:33:56,480
I do remember seeing that where it was like, oh, yeah,

666
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:58,720
there's no more hiring for the Forest Service. But I

667
00:33:58,759 --> 00:34:01,279
was like, wow, no more seasonals, Like that's gonna be

668
00:34:01,279 --> 00:34:03,319
a crazy amount of people looking for jobs. Then this

669
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:07,160
started happening, and you know, I've seen there's one Republican guy.

670
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:08,559
I don't know his name because I don't care to

671
00:34:08,559 --> 00:34:11,920
remember them, frankly, but he was saying like, oh, yeah, well,

672
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,559
there's like ninety three percent job creation in the private sector,

673
00:34:14,559 --> 00:34:16,599
which is how it should be. It's like, first of all,

674
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,119
like of how many jobs coming from yeah, like ten

675
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:23,880
new jobs. But like specifically in our field, it's not

676
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,800
like anyone's making brand new wildlife jobs in the private

677
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,199
sector or brand new environmental jobs, like it just doesn't happen.

678
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,559
And that's why these people were going, like you for

679
00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:36,519
federal jobs because it was secure, you get good benefits,

680
00:34:36,679 --> 00:34:39,880
and it's like a lifelong career path for your wee

681
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,559
can like there's structured ways for you to go up

682
00:34:42,599 --> 00:34:46,400
the ladder, but that doesn't really exist anywhere else. So

683
00:34:46,559 --> 00:34:51,559
like now now what like what are where does everyone stand?

684
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:53,320
Like what are you guys doing?

685
00:34:54,079 --> 00:34:57,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's the job market is like really flooded.

686
00:34:57,760 --> 00:34:59,880
Like I have a friend who worked for the forest

687
00:35:00,679 --> 00:35:03,239
over in Colorado and she's like talking her the other

688
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,760
day and she's like, I've been applying to so many

689
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,199
jobs and I've only heard back from one and it

690
00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,119
was a seasonal job, which it's like, we're permanent. We

691
00:35:11,119 --> 00:35:13,159
don't want to go back to being seasonal. Yeah, that

692
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,679
was so hard. It's like so hard having to find

693
00:35:15,679 --> 00:35:19,039
a new job every you know, end of the year,

694
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:21,800
of the summer. It's like it's just not feasible, and

695
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:23,840
like some people will do the unemployment route, but a

696
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,000
lot of people couldn't get unemployment. So yeah, it's just

697
00:35:27,079 --> 00:35:29,840
it's I mean, yeah, I mean it's just wild too,

698
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,000
because the federal government was already wildly understaffed and it's

699
00:35:33,119 --> 00:35:35,960
like now you're firing all these people which are supposedly

700
00:35:36,039 --> 00:35:39,360
supposed to be reinstated, but we haven't heard a peep

701
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,039
about it, Like I've nothing, I have no idea.

702
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was curious about that. So we're recording this Monday,

703
00:35:45,039 --> 00:35:47,440
the seventeenth of March, and I think it was this

704
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,119
past Thursday that a few judges were like, hey, you

705
00:35:50,159 --> 00:35:52,559
guys can't do this. And I know when you and

706
00:35:52,599 --> 00:35:54,960
I were talking, You're like, well, maybe I'll get reinstated.

707
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,199
And I've heard some people say like, yeah, they're going

708
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,559
to reinstate us so that they can correctly fire us.

709
00:36:01,039 --> 00:36:03,320
So like there's still no update, Like you haven't heard

710
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,000
anything from your previous supervisors.

711
00:36:06,079 --> 00:36:09,800
Speaker 2: No, So it's really strange because also nobody even reached

712
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:11,639
out to us that we were being reinstated. We had

713
00:36:11,639 --> 00:36:14,039
to read it in the news. We were like, uh, okay,

714
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,800
and my supervisor caught my prior supervisor in the field

715
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,159
in your program called me and he was like, I'm

716
00:36:20,159 --> 00:36:22,000
so excited. I hope you and get you reinstated. Like

717
00:36:22,079 --> 00:36:24,719
I don't know anything yet though, and I was like, okay,

718
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:26,920
I haven't heard anything yet either, because I thought I

719
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,000
was going to get an email or something, and I

720
00:36:29,119 --> 00:36:30,960
was like, oh gosh, I hope they didn't like send

721
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:32,880
it to my government email that I no longer have

722
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:35,440
access to, like you know, just like thinking things like that,

723
00:36:35,519 --> 00:36:38,480
and it's like, yeah, no, one knows anything. The region

724
00:36:38,519 --> 00:36:41,400
didn't know. I got this like random deposit in my

725
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,079
account and I called HR and I was like, what's

726
00:36:44,119 --> 00:36:46,480
this deposit? And like we don't know. It's like what

727
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:51,079
the came from you? It was so strange. I'm assuming

728
00:36:51,079 --> 00:36:53,880
it's back pay, but it's like, because that would make

729
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,119
sense because it was a weird amount because it was

730
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:57,960
for like a week and a half because we were

731
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,719
fired mid pay period. But yeah, it's like I shouldn't

732
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,159
have to assume and guess, like, yeah, why is no

733
00:37:04,159 --> 00:37:07,000
one providing us information? Why is this not happening? Like

734
00:37:07,039 --> 00:37:10,599
this is so strange. It makes me like really upset

735
00:37:10,679 --> 00:37:13,079
because it's like it took you guys, like the drop

736
00:37:13,079 --> 00:37:14,960
of a hat to fire us, and now getting us

737
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:20,159
back is just this massive miscommunication struggle. Like I don't know,

738
00:37:20,199 --> 00:37:22,880
it's just like one thing after the other. And those

739
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:24,760
of us, I'm sure I can speak for a lot

740
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:27,639
of people here, those of us that were fired recently

741
00:37:27,679 --> 00:37:30,159
from this whole event whatever you want to call it,

742
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:35,159
we're just so exhausted, Like we're so beaten down, we're tired,

743
00:37:35,599 --> 00:37:39,519
We're like really over just being jerked around and like

744
00:37:39,599 --> 00:37:42,119
not told what's going on. So yeah, a lot of

745
00:37:42,159 --> 00:37:44,159
us are just looking for other jobs because we're like,

746
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,000
I don't know if I'm even going to be reinstated.

747
00:37:46,159 --> 00:37:49,320
And if I am magically reinstated, there's a huge reduction

748
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:54,400
force happening soon, which is RIFF stands for reduction in force,

749
00:37:54,559 --> 00:37:57,360
and the Forest Service is seeing that they're probably going

750
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:02,119
to be legally cutting seven thousand people. And this will

751
00:38:02,119 --> 00:38:04,239
be legal because it's reduction in force, which is done

752
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,239
by your agency, like they decide which positions which reduction

753
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,960
in force has happened in the past. It happened under Clinton,

754
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,360
and that again is legal. So that's why that's another

755
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,239
point I want to make because some people are like

756
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:18,440
people get fired all the time. Clinton fire all these people,

757
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:20,360
and like, no, that was reduction force. That was legal.

758
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,519
This is not. This is not legal. That what happened

759
00:38:22,559 --> 00:38:24,800
to us. But yeah, so it's like if I get restated,

760
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:26,880
am I just going to be riffed? Like so it's

761
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,199
like I can't put all my eggs in that basket

762
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,239
because I need to work. I need to make money,

763
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:34,199
Like I didn't make much money and I don't have

764
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:37,599
a savings and yeah.

765
00:38:37,079 --> 00:38:41,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, not to mention too, like the weird tension of

766
00:38:41,159 --> 00:38:44,599
being brought back and being like, hey, you didn't stick

767
00:38:44,679 --> 00:38:48,519
up for me, Like, and now I feeling so slighted

768
00:38:48,559 --> 00:38:50,599
by this place that I work at because like there's

769
00:38:50,639 --> 00:38:53,599
no support for me and I don't feel like valued.

770
00:38:53,679 --> 00:38:55,760
Like that also fucking sucks.

771
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, it really does. It really fucking sucks.

772
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:02,880
Speaker 1: Oh man. Yeah, And you know the amount of people

773
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:05,599
who like this is your life, so you live there,

774
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,519
you live near your work, like, so now what you're

775
00:39:09,559 --> 00:39:11,760
just expected to like sit around and wait, but like

776
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,719
you still have things to pay for because also everything's

777
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:20,599
stupid expensive nowadays. So like I just how how can

778
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,719
you guys like people like you, how can you find support?

779
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:25,599
How can people like me who are not in this

780
00:39:25,639 --> 00:39:27,599
position support you? What can we do?

781
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 2: That's a really nice question, I think for me, Like

782
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:36,320
right now, I'm trying not to be super negative because

783
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:38,639
it's really easy to go down that rabbit hole with

784
00:39:38,679 --> 00:39:43,599
all the stuff that's happened and what's happening. But it's like, realistically,

785
00:39:43,639 --> 00:39:46,000
like I need to be able to talk about this stuff.

786
00:39:46,039 --> 00:39:49,920
So I think just people asking into questions and trying

787
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:51,760
to figure out the truth because I keep getting people

788
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:53,760
saying new things like, hooray, you're reinstated. I heard you

789
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,719
got your job back. No, didn't get my job back.

790
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:58,119
I don't know what's going on with that, and it

791
00:39:58,199 --> 00:40:01,239
might get riffed anyways. So yeah, and I mean people meanwhile,

792
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:03,920
and I'm not saying that to slight them by a means,

793
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:07,039
but it's just like, I just hope people keep trying

794
00:40:07,039 --> 00:40:10,039
to find all the truth and ask questions because that's

795
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:12,920
really really important in times like these where there's a

796
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,440
lot of misnomers and a lot of chaos and division.

797
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:20,480
So that's one thing. And then also just calling your

798
00:40:20,599 --> 00:40:23,679
reps and your senators and just telling them, like how

799
00:40:23,679 --> 00:40:26,440
you feel about everything that's going on, Like hey, like

800
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,360
reinstate these people that you fired, Like make sure that

801
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:34,079
you protect the people that you boast to be leader for. Like,

802
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,360
you know, I think it's really important right now to

803
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,960
call out people that have power because a lot of

804
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,280
them aren't using it correctly and it's really frustrating to watch.

805
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,079
Like I went to the State of the Union as

806
00:40:45,119 --> 00:40:48,519
a guest for one of the representatives in Oregon, and

807
00:40:48,599 --> 00:40:51,119
I had to sit through Trump's speech like in person,

808
00:40:51,559 --> 00:40:55,400
twelve seats over from Elon Musk and it's like the

809
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:58,599
only person that stood up during that entire speech was

810
00:40:58,639 --> 00:41:00,719
Al Green and it was amazing. I was like so

811
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:02,800
glad he did. But then the rest of them didn't

812
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,079
do anything. And it's like, I mean they had like

813
00:41:05,159 --> 00:41:07,800
signs and were yelling, you know, here and there, but

814
00:41:08,519 --> 00:41:10,639
it was like, I'm stuck in this room with seventy

815
00:41:10,639 --> 00:41:13,440
five percent conservatives that are cheering on this guy talking

816
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:17,320
about drill baby drill and renaming Denali back to the

817
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,440
colonizer McKinley, and like, you know, people are like gleefully

818
00:41:20,519 --> 00:41:24,440
smiling and cheering. I'm just like so repulsed and in

819
00:41:24,519 --> 00:41:28,280
like hell, it was like I'm witnessing this cult. This

820
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:32,239
is so strange. Yeah, So I just feel like people

821
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:36,039
need to call people out and protest and take a

822
00:41:36,079 --> 00:41:39,519
stand because when we're complacent, that's when they win. That's

823
00:41:39,559 --> 00:41:41,280
what they want. They don't want you to do anything.

824
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:43,480
So that's that's what I would say.

825
00:41:44,079 --> 00:41:45,320
Speaker 1: That was a hell of an answer.

826
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:49,159
Speaker 2: That was great, lot of fact there.

827
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:51,280
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we could talk for like hours about that.

828
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,639
But like, so what you mentioned about like drill baby drill,

829
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,440
I feel like there's also been talk of opening up

830
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:01,159
forests for logging. So also, like, where does the environment

831
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:04,079
stand right now? Is it that we're trying to reduce

832
00:42:04,199 --> 00:42:06,360
people like you who are doing really good work for

833
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:09,239
the environment to employ people who are going to destroy it? Like,

834
00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:10,639
what's what's going on there?

835
00:42:11,679 --> 00:42:15,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a big topic right now. And I want

836
00:42:15,039 --> 00:42:17,639
to preface this by saying I don't believe that logging

837
00:42:17,639 --> 00:42:19,800
and timber is bad. I think that it's good to

838
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:23,159
have logging when it's sustainable and monitored. And that's why

839
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:27,519
NIPA is so great, because you know, the Environmental Protection

840
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:31,639
Act is really important for ensuring that we're not like

841
00:42:32,039 --> 00:42:34,360
just clear cutting again like we used to, because that

842
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:38,199
was detrimental for our forest ecosystem. So it's not that

843
00:42:38,199 --> 00:42:41,280
I'm anti logging by any means, but yeah, what's happening

844
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,800
is that you know, now our new for service chief,

845
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,639
like the top guy. His name is Tom Schultz, and

846
00:42:46,679 --> 00:42:51,760
he is a timber private timber lobbyist from Idaho who

847
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:55,400
worked for forest products groups and he does have experience

848
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,119
working with state and some federal but like he's the

849
00:42:58,119 --> 00:43:01,920
first ever chief that does not have any for service experience,

850
00:43:02,039 --> 00:43:04,039
and that's I don't think a good thing, because you

851
00:43:04,119 --> 00:43:07,039
need to have some kind of context and understanding, and

852
00:43:07,039 --> 00:43:10,159
people work so hard to get into that position as well.

853
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:13,079
And yeah, I mean he's canceled a bunch of calls,

854
00:43:13,079 --> 00:43:15,920
like he's terrified of people because no one wants him there,

855
00:43:16,519 --> 00:43:19,079
because a very no one is excited for him, I

856
00:43:19,079 --> 00:43:21,639
should say, in the Forest Service, except maybe a couple

857
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:25,519
people from Timber. So it's just like I am worried

858
00:43:25,559 --> 00:43:29,400
about our forests, and I think a lot that's happening

859
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,079
as they're trying to really take away, Like I mean,

860
00:43:32,119 --> 00:43:34,920
there's like stuff being talked about with the Endangered Species

861
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:38,320
Act ANIFA and all these other things just being attacked

862
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,440
and trying to be lessened, so there's less red tape,

863
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,719
which I will say I understand because sometimes it was

864
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:46,880
frustrating in the field with all this red tape of

865
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:48,719
being like we can't get anything done, so we have

866
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:50,599
to do all these steps, but you have to remember,

867
00:43:50,639 --> 00:43:52,360
like those steps are so important and they're there for

868
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,400
a reason, and by stripping those away, we're literally going

869
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,960
back in time. And it's like, you know, Theodore Roosevelt's

870
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,199
like rolling around his grave right now, like no, no,

871
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:01,039
what's happened?

872
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well you saying that about Tom Schultz if that

873
00:44:06,519 --> 00:44:08,559
was his name. Yeah, I'm sure I'll forget that because

874
00:44:08,599 --> 00:44:12,599
it sounds like he sucks. But it just reminds me that,

875
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,719
you know, the federal government is supposed to be which

876
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,559
I know is a hot take for some people, but

877
00:44:18,599 --> 00:44:21,000
like it's supposed to be there to support us as

878
00:44:21,039 --> 00:44:23,679
citizens of this country. And it seems like a lot

879
00:44:23,679 --> 00:44:27,519
of the decisions being made are like business decisions, and

880
00:44:27,559 --> 00:44:29,960
it sounds like the new head of the for Service

881
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:33,639
is a business guy, which doesn't make a lot of

882
00:44:33,639 --> 00:44:38,719
sense for an organization that's supposed to protect land and

883
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:42,079
not sell it out to private people. So that's super cool.

884
00:44:42,599 --> 00:44:43,440
Love that for us.

885
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,360
Speaker 2: It's all calculated. Yeah, it's all calculated. This is like

886
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:49,880
a big plan, Like, yeah, it's they want they want

887
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,599
to take more resources and we don't have as much

888
00:44:53,599 --> 00:44:56,239
as I think he likes to think there is like

889
00:44:56,599 --> 00:44:58,719
the most timber we guys from Canada for a reason,

890
00:44:59,199 --> 00:45:01,239
like we don't have as much as Canada.

891
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, oh man, Well, if he gets his way,

892
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:06,920
it'll be like another part of the United States anyway,

893
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:12,000
so it'll be his So we'll see. Oh man, Okay,

894
00:45:12,159 --> 00:45:15,719
So where what's next for you specifically, Where are you

895
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:16,480
at right now?

896
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:20,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm well, right now, I'm at a retreat and it's

897
00:45:20,079 --> 00:45:23,719
with this awesome nonprofit that they have this house here

898
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:28,599
in Tiber's, California, and we're just a bunch of us

899
00:45:28,599 --> 00:45:31,039
that were fired from the federal government are here just

900
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:33,559
kind of getting away and change of scenery and just

901
00:45:33,599 --> 00:45:37,360
to reset and relax. And the nonprofits called American Wildfire

902
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,639
Experience and this woman named Bethany runs it and she's awesome.

903
00:45:41,199 --> 00:45:43,280
So it's nice being able to be here and just

904
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:46,519
kind of like chill and get away because you know,

905
00:45:46,639 --> 00:45:49,840
there's just so much stress and intensity that's been happening

906
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,679
in my life. And I am looking for other jobs because,

907
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:56,039
like I said, I don't trust that I'm actually going

908
00:45:56,079 --> 00:45:58,239
to be reinstated, and then if I am, I won't

909
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:01,960
be legally laid off in the riff. So yeah, I mean,

910
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,960
I'm I'm looking for other jobs. And it's it's really sad,

911
00:46:05,039 --> 00:46:07,719
like I'm I'm grieving, Like it feels like a really

912
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:10,880
bad breakup, like I got dumped and then they're telling

913
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:13,199
me they want me back, but like do they really

914
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:16,599
I don't think so, And it's like it's just really

915
00:46:16,639 --> 00:46:19,440
hard because like I put my heart and soul into

916
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,880
this work, and I put so much into the agency

917
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:26,559
working for the US for Service, and it's like it's

918
00:46:26,559 --> 00:46:28,599
not an easy decision, and like that's why I'm so

919
00:46:28,679 --> 00:46:31,280
bittersweet about it, because it's like, on the one hand,

920
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:33,360
like I gave my all and I really loved my job.

921
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,400
I love my coworkers, I love working for the Forest Service.

922
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:39,079
But now I'm like, I don't think that it's our

923
00:46:39,119 --> 00:46:42,119
time anymore. I think I think we need space, and yeah,

924
00:46:42,159 --> 00:46:44,239
I'll come back maybe when you get your shit together.

925
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:47,159
Who knows when that'll be, maybe four years, I don't know. Yeah,

926
00:46:47,159 --> 00:46:50,559
but it's like, yeah, so I'm I'm that's what I'm doing.

927
00:46:50,599 --> 00:46:53,760
I'm just looking for other work and just trying to

928
00:46:54,400 --> 00:46:57,480
keep myself afloat and also stay sane at the same time.

929
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:01,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. So do you know of any resources

930
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:04,639
for like how did you find this retreat for example,

931
00:47:04,679 --> 00:47:06,639
and like other other resources like that for other people

932
00:47:06,639 --> 00:47:08,280
who have been wrongfully terminated.

933
00:47:08,639 --> 00:47:12,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. I founded on social media on Instagram. Actually, somebody

934
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:14,599
had sent it to me who I used to work

935
00:47:14,639 --> 00:47:17,400
with and fire and she said, hey, my friend has

936
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:21,039
this nonprofit and there's she's offering this retreat for fired FEDS,

937
00:47:21,079 --> 00:47:23,280
like are you interested? And I said, yeah, that sounds awesome,

938
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:24,679
and I looked up where it was and I was like, oh,

939
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:26,880
that's only like an eight and a half hour drive

940
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:30,800
from ben, so yeah, I'll go. And she's from the

941
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:34,639
USDA who was fired, and there's another guy from BLM

942
00:47:35,199 --> 00:47:37,400
and I don't know where the other person is from

943
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,440
because she's not here yet, but yeah. So social media

944
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,400
has been pretty amazing actually, Like that's how I was

945
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:45,480
discovered to be asked to go to the State of

946
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:49,920
the Union was through Instagram. Her Janelle Bien's staff reached

947
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:51,960
out to me and said, hey, do you want to

948
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:52,639
go to DC?

949
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 3: And I was like, wow, okay, so cool and then yeah,

950
00:47:56,039 --> 00:47:59,719
and then I had people sending me different like support groups,

951
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:03,400
like on Signal because it's non encrypted and there's.

952
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 2: A lot of us that we're terminated, and we're in

953
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:09,079
group chats and kind of talking and comparing experiences and

954
00:48:09,119 --> 00:48:10,679
being like, hey, did you hear anything about this?

955
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 1: No?

956
00:48:11,119 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 2: Did you get this email?

957
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:12,519
Speaker 1: No?

958
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,639
Speaker 2: So it's good how much community there is out there,

959
00:48:15,679 --> 00:48:17,840
and I made friends with so many people I never

960
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:22,159
would have probably met yeah, but without being fired. And yeah,

961
00:48:22,199 --> 00:48:25,760
so I think I think for resources, definitely share your stories.

962
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:27,639
And I know it's really scary. A lot of people

963
00:48:27,679 --> 00:48:30,400
are really terrified to speak out and talk to the

964
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:32,760
news or post on social media. But it's like, this

965
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:34,440
is the time to do it, you guys. Like, I

966
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,000
know it's scary, and I won't shame anybody for not

967
00:48:37,119 --> 00:48:39,840
doing it, not at all. It's very valid. It is scary,

968
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:43,719
but man, like, it's so important right now to do that.

969
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:45,880
And it's like it's humanizing too, because we're not just

970
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:49,280
a number that was tossed to the ground, like we're people.

971
00:48:49,679 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 1: Yeah.

972
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:53,639
Speaker 2: So, yeah, I think that's really important. And yeah, so

973
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:56,360
I would say social media, there's a lot of amazing

974
00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:00,639
stuff on there, people reaching out and offering different retreats

975
00:49:00,679 --> 00:49:04,960
and support services. So that's that's something that I would recommend.

976
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,360
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, speaking of thank you for coming on to

977
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,480
share your story with me and all of us. So

978
00:49:11,519 --> 00:49:13,559
speaking of social media, where can people find you on

979
00:49:13,599 --> 00:49:14,199
social media?

980
00:49:15,239 --> 00:49:18,159
Speaker 2: Yeah? I have an Instagram And it's funny because before

981
00:49:19,039 --> 00:49:23,119
all this stuff happened, I've always had a different name

982
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:25,360
and it's always been private because I never didn't want

983
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:27,840
to be found story Shore. I used to have a stalker,

984
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:31,440
so I I was very careful about. Yeah, well he

985
00:49:31,559 --> 00:49:33,480
probably can find me now because I'm in the news

986
00:49:33,519 --> 00:49:36,719
and it's all public now. No, that was a long

987
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:40,639
time ago, but yeah, so I'm on Instagram at Oregon

988
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:44,400
Huntress is the name. You can find me on there. Talk.

989
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:48,920
I'm happy to talk. Send me memes. Yeah, the Existential

990
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:53,159
Dread at Bay. Yeah, that's my main source. I have

991
00:49:53,199 --> 00:49:55,960
a TikTok, but I'm an elder millennial and I don't

992
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:57,239
know how to use it that well.

993
00:49:57,119 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 1: So yeah, I feel you. I don't know what generation

994
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,599
of Minna was in ninety seven, and I like, I

995
00:50:02,679 --> 00:50:05,280
don't get TikTok still. Yeah, yeah, so I think I'm

996
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:07,400
like towards the very end of it, but I still

997
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:11,119
am like, I don't get how to do this. So

998
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:15,440
I feel you awesome. Well, thank you so much, Liz,

999
00:50:15,639 --> 00:50:18,320
And we will keep in touch and as things like,

1000
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:20,719
especially on our Instagram, like, as things progress and you

1001
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:23,079
share them, I will keep sharing them and keep people

1002
00:50:23,119 --> 00:50:25,079
updated on what's happening with our federal employees.

1003
00:50:25,519 --> 00:50:28,360
Speaker 2: So absolutely, and I'll let you know if I hear anything.

1004
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 1: Oh, please do fingers crossed for you, but also, like

1005
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:33,400
fingers crossed, you find something else that's different and better.

1006
00:50:33,519 --> 00:50:47,679
So yeah, thank you again to Liz for sharing your

1007
00:50:47,679 --> 00:50:50,760
story with all of us After our recording. On March

1008
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:54,000
twenty seventh, Liz posted a video to her Instagram saying

1009
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:56,000
that she was indeed offered her job back as a

1010
00:50:56,119 --> 00:50:58,639
ranger at the National Forest after a month of being

1011
00:50:58,679 --> 00:51:01,480
in limbo. She told them she needed a few days

1012
00:51:01,559 --> 00:51:03,679
to think about it because she had been job searching

1013
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:08,320
and had a few offers. After some consideration, Liz ultimately

1014
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:11,440
decided to turn down her ranger position because of her

1015
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:14,280
distrust of the current administration and fear that her job

1016
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:17,719
would be eliminated anyways if the Trump administration goes along

1017
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,920
with a reduction in force. She said, this isn't a

1018
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,239
goodbye to the federal government. It's a see you later.

1019
00:51:24,119 --> 00:51:26,400
She will continue to advocate and stand up for what

1020
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:28,599
she thinks is right, but for now it won't be

1021
00:51:28,639 --> 00:51:32,800
as a federal employee. Alex Trautmann from her last episode

1022
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:35,119
was reinstated to his position and went back to work

1023
00:51:35,159 --> 00:51:37,840
on March twenty fifth, and his agency said he would

1024
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:40,360
be receiving back pay, but he was unsure when that

1025
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:44,239
would happen. Cheyenne was also reinstated, but last we spoke

1026
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:46,639
about it, she didn't know when this would happen, but

1027
00:51:46,679 --> 00:51:49,719
the USDA told her they were working on it. As

1028
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:52,599
of a few days before this recording, the USDA said

1029
00:51:52,599 --> 00:51:56,480
most of it's five seven hundred and fourteen reinstated probationary

1030
00:51:56,480 --> 00:52:00,639
employees are still unpaid administrative leave, but that status temporary

1031
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:04,719
and a quote initial step toward returning employees fully to work.

1032
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:08,360
With some critical thinking, you may begin to notice that

1033
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:11,039
paying employees for not doing their jobs is in fact

1034
00:52:11,159 --> 00:52:13,519
not an efficient use of our time or federal funds.

1035
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:16,480
And that is actually my opinion, but also kind of

1036
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:20,239
a fact. These reinstatements come after two federal judges ordered

1037
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:24,880
agencies to reinstate their recently fired probationary employees. One judge

1038
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:27,760
in Maryland found that the firings amounted to large scale

1039
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:31,119
reduction of forces, which are subject to very specific rules

1040
00:52:31,119 --> 00:52:35,039
of how they're conducted. Another judge in California ruled that

1041
00:52:35,079 --> 00:52:38,079
the Office of Personnel Management does not have the authority

1042
00:52:38,119 --> 00:52:43,360
to direct government wide layoffs. Following this, Republican House Speaker

1043
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:47,079
Mike Johnson said and I quote, we do have the

1044
00:52:47,119 --> 00:52:50,360
authority over the federal courts. As you know, we can

1045
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:53,960
eliminate an entire district court. We have power of funding

1046
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:57,639
over the courts, and all of these other things end quote.

1047
00:52:59,039 --> 00:53:01,639
Although many people are being reinstated and returning to work,

1048
00:53:01,840 --> 00:53:05,159
per a January twentieth order from Trump, remote work has

1049
00:53:05,159 --> 00:53:08,480
been terminated, meaning many employees are now having to report

1050
00:53:08,519 --> 00:53:11,320
to offices that do not have the space or resources

1051
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:14,480
for them, with NPR reporting that many offices don't even

1052
00:53:14,559 --> 00:53:19,079
have adequate computers, parking spaces, or toilet paper for employees,

1053
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:21,920
and some people are being assigned duty stations not even

1054
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:24,119
the same part of the country that they live in.

1055
00:53:25,199 --> 00:53:27,639
Trump has also previously stated that employees who do not

1056
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:30,639
physically show up to their assigned office will be terminated.

1057
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:34,320
All right, let's hear another story of someone who is

1058
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:46,320
terminated in what ended up happening to them. This story

1059
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:51,159
is from Catherine Brainerd. In her words, quote, I started

1060
00:53:51,159 --> 00:53:53,920
working at Badland's National Park last March through a ten

1061
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:57,519
and a half month AmeriCorps Mount Adams Institute internship called

1062
00:53:57,599 --> 00:54:00,719
Vet's Work Program. It's for vets Rans who want to

1063
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:04,039
do something in the natural resources field. I was in

1064
00:54:04,079 --> 00:54:06,360
the Navy for five and a half years, got out

1065
00:54:06,599 --> 00:54:10,880
and went to school for Natural resources park management. After graduation,

1066
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:15,719
I found the internship, applied, and was accepted. My internship

1067
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:17,960
ended at the end of January, and after that I

1068
00:54:18,079 --> 00:54:20,639
was to start my first permanent position with the NPS

1069
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:25,039
the National Park Service at Appomattox Courthouse National Historical Park.

1070
00:54:25,639 --> 00:54:28,719
It's where Lee surrendered to Grant. I would have been

1071
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:32,320
an interpretive ranger, so giving programs and staffing the visitor

1072
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:36,079
center desk. My internship ended January twenty fourth, and I

1073
00:54:36,159 --> 00:54:39,360
was to start my permanent position on February ninth. I

1074
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:43,079
had my lease signed, furniture bought and ordered, accounts moved,

1075
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:46,360
and things all set up to move down there. Then

1076
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:49,800
January twenty third, I got the email saying my job

1077
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:53,679
had been rescinded. By rescinding the job offer, the job

1078
00:54:53,719 --> 00:54:56,039
I had gotten just ceased to exist due to the

1079
00:54:56,079 --> 00:55:00,000
new Administration's Executive Order on Federal Jobs.

1080
00:55:00,159 --> 00:55:00,480
Speaker 2: Quote.

1081
00:55:01,679 --> 00:55:04,679
Speaker 1: Because this position just ceased to exist, Catherine wasn't one

1082
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:07,559
of the people to be reinstated, so she's now unemployed,

1083
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:10,840
still looking for a new opportunity. After having everything in place,

1084
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:14,280
to start this position. I'll list her public Instagram handle

1085
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:17,639
in the episode description if anyone would like to contact her.

1086
00:55:18,199 --> 00:55:20,480
We had one more story, but the individual would like

1087
00:55:20,519 --> 00:55:23,199
to now remain anonymous and had quite a bit to say,

1088
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:25,800
so I'll be publishing their story on our website's blog

1089
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:30,000
and our Patreon. All right, that is it for our

1090
00:55:30,039 --> 00:55:34,599
two part episode series on the federal terminations happening. To

1091
00:55:34,679 --> 00:55:36,800
those of you still listening and those of you who

1092
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:39,280
reached out with positive words for me and all of

1093
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:43,519
those who shared their stories. Thank you so much to

1094
00:55:43,599 --> 00:55:46,079
all of you being reinstated or waiting to hear back

1095
00:55:46,079 --> 00:55:48,760
on new job opportunities. Best of luck to you. We

1096
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:52,239
are all rooting for you. If we'd like to contact

1097
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:55,119
Liser Catherine, their information will be in the episode description,

1098
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:58,039
along with places you can find this podcast on social

1099
00:55:58,119 --> 00:56:00,360
media and a link to our website, which is just

1100
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:03,719
get Out a Live podcast dot com. Thank you so

1101
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:05,960
much to Josh Walsh for making our intro music and

1102
00:56:06,039 --> 00:56:08,480
Jesse Walsh for editing. And we will see you in

1103
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:11,360
our next episode with an animal tech story told by

1104
00:56:11,519 --> 00:56:13,679
the person who survived it. See you then,