WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.280 --> 00:00:10.599 In April of nineteen ninety eight, hikers in the Trinity 2 00:00:10.640 --> 00:00:13.880 Alps of northern California stumbled upon what looked like the 3 00:00:13.919 --> 00:00:17.839 remains of a burnt out campsite, that is, until they 4 00:00:17.839 --> 00:00:22.480 realized something human was buried beneath the ashes. The scene 5 00:00:22.480 --> 00:00:25.359 told investigators that this was not an accident nor a 6 00:00:25.399 --> 00:00:28.000 crime of impulse, but instead it seemed to be a 7 00:00:28.079 --> 00:00:33.079 victim of drawn out torture. The investigation that followed slowly 8 00:00:33.119 --> 00:00:37.679 unraveled a story no one could believe, one of betrayal, control, 9 00:00:37.840 --> 00:00:41.880 and violence carried out by people who were so called friends. 10 00:00:43.320 --> 00:00:46.960 This is the story of Laura Sinner. 11 00:00:47.920 --> 00:00:51.520 My name's Ben, I'm Nicole and you're listening to Wicked 12 00:00:51.560 --> 00:00:54.000 and Grim, a true crime podcast. 13 00:00:55.600 --> 00:01:03.280 The following podcast and material more about your audience, listener, 14 00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:25.079 dis question and the countdown to Christmas is getting smaller 15 00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:28.560 and smaller. It is almost here. We're what like nine 16 00:01:28.640 --> 00:01:29.120 days away. 17 00:01:29.280 --> 00:01:31.079 Oh, it's a bit too close. If you asked me, 18 00:01:31.280 --> 00:01:32.159 it's a bit too close. 19 00:01:32.200 --> 00:01:34.000 Well, I hope everyone's making sure that they're on the 20 00:01:34.120 --> 00:01:36.400 nice list, not the naughty list, unless you want to 21 00:01:36.400 --> 00:01:39.040 be on the naughty list. And that's a whole adult 22 00:01:39.079 --> 00:01:41.280 conversation we're not going to talk about on this show, but. 23 00:01:41.560 --> 00:01:45.879 Oh, wow, you do you wow? I feel like the 24 00:01:45.959 --> 00:01:49.280 whole year, the whole year of twenty twenty five kind 25 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:50.519 of went down quick. 26 00:01:51.239 --> 00:01:52.079 I hope so too. 27 00:01:52.680 --> 00:01:55.439 I don't know. Sometimes, I mean, most most years do 28 00:01:55.519 --> 00:01:57.159 go pretty quick, but this one it just seems like 29 00:01:57.200 --> 00:01:58.280 you blanked and it was gone. 30 00:01:59.719 --> 00:02:01.640 I think that might be something that just comes a 31 00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:03.760 little more with age, too, Like the older you get it, 32 00:02:03.879 --> 00:02:06.560 it's like the years seem to go buy faster, you 33 00:02:06.640 --> 00:02:08.840 know what I mean maybe, which is actually funny because 34 00:02:09.000 --> 00:02:12.560 there's this frame of reference for that. When you're young, 35 00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:17.280 things seem to go so slow, like the year takes 36 00:02:17.280 --> 00:02:20.599 so long to go by. But that's because your reference 37 00:02:20.599 --> 00:02:22.879 for how long a year is well, one year if 38 00:02:22.879 --> 00:02:26.280 you're if you're ten, one year is ten percent of 39 00:02:26.280 --> 00:02:30.400 your life, So that's a lot, right, Yeah. But if you're, 40 00:02:30.639 --> 00:02:34.120 say fifty, I see, well that percentage of your life 41 00:02:34.159 --> 00:02:36.719 it's a lot smaller. So time seems to go faster 42 00:02:37.120 --> 00:02:39.080 the more you have under your belt, which is an 43 00:02:39.080 --> 00:02:40.240 interesting way to look at it. 44 00:02:40.560 --> 00:02:42.360 Shit, Yeah, I don't know if I've ever looked at 45 00:02:42.360 --> 00:02:43.080 it like that, to be. 46 00:02:43.039 --> 00:02:45.400 Honest, and so with the thing is like with time, 47 00:02:45.479 --> 00:02:48.080 Like over time, we've generated a lot of people who 48 00:02:48.120 --> 00:02:50.319 are signing up over on Patreon, and we have a 49 00:02:50.319 --> 00:02:52.000 lot of new people. We need to thank for that 50 00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:57.240 as well, Like Lance Kin said Shelby, Lynn Weerick, Abby Skidmore, 51 00:02:57.439 --> 00:03:03.520 Landen Hall, Tracy Calder, Nicole Monger, Rebecca Busby, and Courtney Ethritt. 52 00:03:03.560 --> 00:03:05.360 Shout out to you and thank you so much for 53 00:03:05.400 --> 00:03:06.840 supporting us over on Patreon. 54 00:03:07.120 --> 00:03:09.919 Man, I didn't even see that one coming. No, no, 55 00:03:10.120 --> 00:03:13.360 but honestly, thank you for signing up. We do appreciate it. 56 00:03:13.319 --> 00:03:15.479 We really do. It's just now become my thing to 57 00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:18.560 try and blindside it and work it into conversation as 58 00:03:18.560 --> 00:03:19.240 best as I can. 59 00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:21.240 Well, yeah, I was about to talk about that a 60 00:03:21.240 --> 00:03:22.479 bit more, and then all of a sudden it was like, 61 00:03:22.479 --> 00:03:24.520 oh shit, we're thanking patron. 62 00:03:24.639 --> 00:03:28.639 Well yeah we are. But I don't really have a 63 00:03:28.680 --> 00:03:30.800 whole lot to talk about today other than you know, 64 00:03:30.879 --> 00:03:33.360 maybe the concept of time and reality as we know 65 00:03:33.479 --> 00:03:36.960 it and thanking patrons. So I think maybe if you're 66 00:03:37.039 --> 00:03:38.680 cool or you don't have anything to talk about, we 67 00:03:38.759 --> 00:03:39.479 just get in the case. 68 00:03:39.840 --> 00:03:41.759 Yeah, I mean, if you want to hear us chit 69 00:03:41.840 --> 00:03:45.560 chat more. We did a pre show and Patreon, but yeah, 70 00:03:45.560 --> 00:03:47.280 I think here we'll just dive right in. 71 00:03:47.759 --> 00:03:51.360 Sounds good. So in the early morning hours of Saturday, 72 00:03:51.400 --> 00:03:55.199 April eighteenth, nineteen ninety eight, two hikers were moving through 73 00:03:55.240 --> 00:04:00.159 the Trinity Alps Wilderness in Shasta County, California, USA. It's 74 00:04:00.159 --> 00:04:02.240 the kind of place where people go when they want space. 75 00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:06.719 There's no camp hosts looking after every individual campsite that are, 76 00:04:06.879 --> 00:04:10.319 you know, shoulder to shoulder. There's no bathrooms or marked sites. 77 00:04:10.319 --> 00:04:15.560 It's just trees, cold air, and silence. If someone wanted 78 00:04:15.560 --> 00:04:17.879 to disappear out there for the weekend, they could, and 79 00:04:17.959 --> 00:04:21.000 if something went wrong during that time, well it could 80 00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:24.560 take a while before anyone realized. As the hikers went 81 00:04:24.600 --> 00:04:27.480 deeper into the woods, they came across a campsite that 82 00:04:27.519 --> 00:04:30.959 had been used fairly recently, perhaps somebody had been there 83 00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:34.480 just even days ago, and they certain exactly didn't clean 84 00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:38.360 up after themselves either. There was trash, litters scattered around, 85 00:04:38.639 --> 00:04:40.839 and the remains of a rough fire pit, the kind 86 00:04:40.839 --> 00:04:45.279 of mess that really tells carelessness and partying likely occurred 87 00:04:45.279 --> 00:04:48.040 here until you really look at it and see that, well, 88 00:04:48.120 --> 00:04:52.959 there's something else because the closer they got, something in 89 00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:55.959 the charred area of that fire pit didn't look like 90 00:04:56.000 --> 00:04:59.120 food scraps or burnt logs. It had a familiar shape, 91 00:04:59.680 --> 00:05:03.199 a shape that made the hikers stop cold because there 92 00:05:04.040 --> 00:05:07.680 were partially covered human remains that seemed to be poking 93 00:05:07.720 --> 00:05:11.279 out of the dirt. They immediately left the area and 94 00:05:11.319 --> 00:05:13.759 reported what they had seen to the Shasta County Sheriff's 95 00:05:13.800 --> 00:05:17.839 office nearby in Reading. After the crews got their necessary 96 00:05:17.879 --> 00:05:21.360 gear altogether, they all headed out to the location with 97 00:05:21.439 --> 00:05:25.199 cadaver dogs, and they started to get to work. By Sunday, 98 00:05:25.319 --> 00:05:30.560 April nineteenth, the situation became undeniable. In the remnants of 99 00:05:30.560 --> 00:05:33.720 the fire pit, partially buried in a shallow grave, they 100 00:05:33.800 --> 00:05:37.399 found the body of a young woman. When she was recovered, 101 00:05:37.399 --> 00:05:41.480 she was completely unclothed, and even before an autopsy was performed, 102 00:05:41.519 --> 00:05:43.959 the condition of the remains made it clear that this 103 00:05:44.480 --> 00:05:49.639 was a violent death. The woman had suffered extensive injuries. 104 00:05:50.040 --> 00:05:53.240 Her body was covered in bruises, not just in one area, 105 00:05:53.319 --> 00:05:56.959 but across her arms and torso. There were long cuts 106 00:05:57.000 --> 00:06:00.079 going down her arms that immediately stood out, especially on 107 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:03.800 her wrists. Now around her head, investigators found a black 108 00:06:03.879 --> 00:06:07.120 plastic garbage bag that had been tied in place. It 109 00:06:07.160 --> 00:06:10.079 wasn't loose though the bag had been tied, and it 110 00:06:10.120 --> 00:06:12.199 was even partially melted around her head. 111 00:06:12.519 --> 00:06:14.920 Oh man, this is a brutal death. 112 00:06:15.160 --> 00:06:18.600 There were signs of burning. There was signs of being bound, 113 00:06:18.959 --> 00:06:23.199 and an apparent attempt to destroy evidence or make identification 114 00:06:23.319 --> 00:06:27.079 more difficult. But the fire doing the burning, well, it 115 00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:30.319 hadn't done enough to erase everything. The injuries were still 116 00:06:30.399 --> 00:06:33.279 visible and the trauma was still very much so obvious. 117 00:06:34.439 --> 00:06:36.720 Now not far from where the body had been discovered, 118 00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:41.160 detectives also located a purse, and inside they found a 119 00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:44.720 driver's license with a name and a face. It was 120 00:06:44.759 --> 00:06:49.600 the victim, and it identified twenty year old Laura Sinner. 121 00:06:51.639 --> 00:06:55.839 An autopsy would later confirm what investigators already suspected. Laura 122 00:06:55.879 --> 00:06:58.759 had died from blunt force trauma to the head, at 123 00:06:58.879 --> 00:07:03.040 least partially. They never did figure out exactly the cause 124 00:07:03.079 --> 00:07:06.480 of death, but that was certainly a contributing factor. The 125 00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:09.720 injuries she had were consistent with being struck multiple times 126 00:07:09.759 --> 00:07:15.120 from behind. There was also evidence suggesting possible exphyxiation, lining 127 00:07:15.160 --> 00:07:18.680 up with the plastic bag found over her head. There 128 00:07:18.720 --> 00:07:21.879 were the cuts in her wrists too, nine in total. 129 00:07:22.560 --> 00:07:24.920 They were shallow. They didn't look like the results of 130 00:07:24.959 --> 00:07:29.680 a determined suicide attempt or anything. There were much more superficials. 131 00:07:29.720 --> 00:07:34.720 They were going lengthways down her arm, and they weren't 132 00:07:34.759 --> 00:07:36.800 going to be anything that would actually suffer an artery 133 00:07:37.079 --> 00:07:41.399 or cause a death. Okay, Now, Her toxicology report added 134 00:07:41.439 --> 00:07:46.639 another unsettling detail. Laura's blood alcohol level was extremely high, 135 00:07:46.920 --> 00:07:50.120 even near fatal. Actually, it was high enough that she 136 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:54.279 would have been severely impaired, very vulnerable, and in no 137 00:07:54.480 --> 00:07:56.959 condition to defend herself at the very least. 138 00:07:57.680 --> 00:08:03.399 Holy frig this is just horrible. Like so, it just 139 00:08:03.439 --> 00:08:06.199 still strikes me sometimes what humans are capable of doing 140 00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:07.040 to other humans. 141 00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:09.839 I agree, And just you wait until you actually figure 142 00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:10.639 out what happened. 143 00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:11.160 Okay. 144 00:08:12.160 --> 00:08:15.279 Now. At the scene, detectives also noticed a large dented 145 00:08:15.360 --> 00:08:18.759 can of chili beans, and there was blood and hair 146 00:08:18.800 --> 00:08:22.959 stuck to the can. Investigators realize this may have been 147 00:08:23.079 --> 00:08:27.600 used as a weapon to bludgeon Laura to death. They 148 00:08:27.639 --> 00:08:29.439 may have figured that part out, but what they were 149 00:08:29.480 --> 00:08:31.600 still trying to figure out. What they still didn't know 150 00:08:32.039 --> 00:08:34.320 was how Laura ended up in this campsite in the 151 00:08:34.320 --> 00:08:37.360 first place, who she'd been with, or why someone would 152 00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:39.759 go to such lengths to kill her and then try 153 00:08:39.759 --> 00:08:43.759 and erase her presence afterwards in such a well terrible manner. 154 00:08:44.960 --> 00:08:47.159 So it was time to try and figure it out 155 00:08:47.639 --> 00:08:51.799 with her now identified. Investigators shifted into the reconstruction mode 156 00:08:51.840 --> 00:08:55.679 from the scene of the crime. The first task was 157 00:08:55.799 --> 00:08:58.840 establishing a rough timeline. Based on the condition of the 158 00:08:58.840 --> 00:09:02.159 body and the campsite, detectives believed Laura had been dead 159 00:09:02.200 --> 00:09:06.039 for days, possibly longer than a week. Even the exposure 160 00:09:06.159 --> 00:09:09.559 the wildlife and the partial burns on the remains complicated 161 00:09:09.559 --> 00:09:11.840 things a bit, so pinning down an exact time of 162 00:09:11.879 --> 00:09:14.440 death was going to be very difficult, in fact, maybe 163 00:09:14.480 --> 00:09:18.720 even impossible. They worked outwards from the scene itself looking 164 00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:22.159 for any important details, and one thing they found was 165 00:09:22.200 --> 00:09:25.360 that there was no vehicle left anywhere nearby, not in 166 00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:29.559 the parking lot or nothing. So it meant someone had 167 00:09:29.639 --> 00:09:32.120 driven in the same vehicle as Laura to get into 168 00:09:32.159 --> 00:09:36.000 the wilderness and then they left in said vehicle afterwards. 169 00:09:36.440 --> 00:09:38.759 Okay, so it might have been someone she knew. 170 00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:42.960 Exactly, So this detail tells investigators it's not a random attacker. Right, 171 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:48.720 not a passing stranger, because whoever had this shared transportation, well, yeah, 172 00:09:48.759 --> 00:09:51.240 they must have known her or at least been on 173 00:09:51.320 --> 00:09:53.720 some sort of good terms with her to join in 174 00:09:53.759 --> 00:09:54.480 a shared. 175 00:09:54.279 --> 00:09:58.200 Ride, I mean, or a potential kidnapping I suppose as well. 176 00:09:58.080 --> 00:10:01.879 Right, potentially, I guess when you look it that way. Yes. Now, 177 00:10:01.960 --> 00:10:06.200 the campsite itself raised some more questions to there's empty 178 00:10:06.200 --> 00:10:09.720 liquor bottles that were scattered around, which suggested heavy drinking, 179 00:10:09.799 --> 00:10:12.639 which is lining up certainly with her blood alcohol level. 180 00:10:12.879 --> 00:10:14.840 But this wasn't just a party that had gone out 181 00:10:14.879 --> 00:10:17.840 of hand. The shallow grave, the fire, the garbage bag 182 00:10:17.919 --> 00:10:21.720 tied around her head, those weren't actions of someone panicking 183 00:10:21.799 --> 00:10:26.279 in a moment. These were much more deliberate steps. These 184 00:10:26.320 --> 00:10:31.279 would have taken time to do. What stood out most though, 185 00:10:32.279 --> 00:10:35.679 was what was not at the scene. There was no 186 00:10:35.720 --> 00:10:40.279 sign of Laura's clothing, no identification beyond her purse. There's 187 00:10:40.320 --> 00:10:45.200 no indication that she'd been there alone. Everything pointed to 188 00:10:45.320 --> 00:10:49.440 other people being present and leaving together as well, So 189 00:10:49.600 --> 00:10:52.960 detectives turned their attention away from the forest and towards 190 00:10:53.080 --> 00:10:56.559 Laura's life, who she'd been spending time with, where she 191 00:10:56.600 --> 00:11:00.240 had been staying and who might who might know why 192 00:11:00.279 --> 00:11:03.799 she never made it back. But to answer those questions, 193 00:11:03.879 --> 00:11:06.919 investigators had to read wind months before her body was found, 194 00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:09.559 back to a time when her life had already been 195 00:11:09.639 --> 00:11:13.879 knocked off balance. In fact, Laura was born in nineteen 196 00:11:13.960 --> 00:11:16.679 seventy seven and grew up in Washington State, where she 197 00:11:16.759 --> 00:11:19.320 was raised alongside her brothers in a close knit family. 198 00:11:19.919 --> 00:11:22.440 Those who knew her described her as kind, gentle, and 199 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:26.360 deeply trusting, sometimes to a fault. She was known for 200 00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:28.639 wanting to help others and for believing in the best 201 00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:31.879 in people, even when they hadn't earned it. Growing up, 202 00:11:31.960 --> 00:11:34.559 Laura faced some challenges though. She struggled with the learning 203 00:11:34.600 --> 00:11:37.679 disability during her school years, which made parts of grade 204 00:11:37.679 --> 00:11:41.799 school difficult for her. Despite that, though she persevered and 205 00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:46.080 graduated high school in nineteen ninety six. Those close to her, 206 00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:48.559 while they later, said she worked hard to overcome the 207 00:11:48.559 --> 00:11:51.600 obstacles she faced, and she wanted to prove she could 208 00:11:51.639 --> 00:11:57.279 be a person to build a meaningful, independent life now. 209 00:11:57.320 --> 00:12:00.519 Faith also played an important role in Laura's identity. She 210 00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:03.879 was a Christian and spent time volunteering at a religious 211 00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:08.159 mission in Aberdeen, Washington. Where she worked with people with disabilities. 212 00:12:08.919 --> 00:12:11.440 It was during this period that she met Timothy Smith, 213 00:12:12.159 --> 00:12:15.600 a relationship that would soon become central in her life. 214 00:12:16.120 --> 00:12:19.759 Friends and family would later say that Laura often attached 215 00:12:19.799 --> 00:12:23.039 deeply to the people she cared about, sometimes relying on 216 00:12:23.120 --> 00:12:27.759 them for emotional stability. Now, after high school, Laura had 217 00:12:27.879 --> 00:12:31.159 enrolled in Gray's Harbor College in Aberdeen. She earned a 218 00:12:31.159 --> 00:12:34.120 scholarship to attend, but her time there, while it was 219 00:12:34.159 --> 00:12:37.799 short lived. Not long after starting college, she drifted away 220 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:41.720 from school and began spending more time with tim and 221 00:12:41.799 --> 00:12:45.519 his circle of friends. It was in October of nineteen 222 00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:49.399 ninety seven when Laura's mother would tragically die after a 223 00:12:49.480 --> 00:12:54.320 fast and brutal battle with leukemia. The loss hit her hard. 224 00:12:55.120 --> 00:12:57.639 Her family members later said Laura struggled to find her 225 00:12:57.679 --> 00:13:00.960 footing afterwards, drifting between homes and trying to figure out 226 00:13:00.960 --> 00:13:04.360 what came next. For a while, she stayed with friends, 227 00:13:04.639 --> 00:13:08.039 then moved in with her father in Salem, Oregon. She 228 00:13:08.120 --> 00:13:10.879 was grieving and very vulnerable and searching for something that 229 00:13:10.919 --> 00:13:16.159 felt like stability, something to really ground her once again. Now, 230 00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:18.799 around that time, Laura was also in a very serious 231 00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:23.200 relationship with Tim Friends described this relationship as intense and 232 00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:27.159 very fast moving. In fact, within a year, they were engaged. 233 00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:31.039 In March of nineteen ninety eight, Tim convinced Laura to 234 00:13:31.080 --> 00:13:34.000 move in with him in Reading, California. You wanted to 235 00:13:34.039 --> 00:13:37.159 be closer to his younger brother, Paul Smith Junior and 236 00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:41.080 his half sister Laurie Smith. Now for Laura, the move 237 00:13:41.240 --> 00:13:45.000 represented a fresh start, new surroundings, a future with someone 238 00:13:45.039 --> 00:13:48.080 she trusted, and distance from the grief she'd been carrying 239 00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:51.600 since her mother's death. But the stability she was hoping 240 00:13:51.639 --> 00:13:57.159 for it unfortunately didn't last. Shortly after arriving in California, 241 00:13:57.320 --> 00:14:01.120 Laura and Tim's relationship fell apart. In the engagement ended 242 00:14:02.080 --> 00:14:04.440 and Laura moved out of the apartment that they shared together. 243 00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:08.879 She had very little money, no strong support system in Reading, 244 00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:13.559 and nowhere obvious to go. Despite her father offering to 245 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:16.759 send money so she could return to Oregon, Laura chose 246 00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:20.759 to stay, trying to make something of her situation. So 247 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:23.639 it's little that she had and no family nearby, Laura 248 00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:26.480 moved in with Paul Smith Junior and his half sister 249 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:29.360 Laurie Smith, which was Tim's brother, right. 250 00:14:29.320 --> 00:14:32.759 Okay, yeah, yeah, which is kind of odd really well. 251 00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:35.120 It wasn't meant to be permanent. It was kind of 252 00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:38.399 the circle of people that she knows there, right, So 253 00:14:38.440 --> 00:14:41.559 it's someone that she can connect with, someone who knows her. 254 00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:45.519 And it was supposed to be a safe situation, or 255 00:14:45.559 --> 00:14:48.519 at least supposed to be. It's the big word there, 256 00:14:48.919 --> 00:14:52.879 oh gosh. So it was meant to be just something quick, 257 00:14:53.000 --> 00:14:54.960 you know, something to get her to the next step 258 00:14:55.000 --> 00:14:57.919 of her life. But in this meantime, it quickly became 259 00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:00.960 clear that the arrangements were very tense from the start. 260 00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:05.320 Paul was twenty years old and living a very chaotic life. 261 00:15:05.759 --> 00:15:09.080 Laurie was eighteen and shared the apartment and was dating 262 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:12.679 a nineteen year old named Eric Rubio, and so the 263 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:15.960 apartment became the regular hangout spot for their small social circle, 264 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:19.879 and Laura suddenly found herself supported by people she kinda knew. 265 00:15:20.159 --> 00:15:21.960 The best way you can really describe it, relying on 266 00:15:22.000 --> 00:15:24.960 them for shelter, right. But the biggest source of tension 267 00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:29.240 through all this was centered on Paul's relationship his girlfriend. 268 00:15:30.399 --> 00:15:32.720 He was in a relationship with a fourteen year old 269 00:15:32.799 --> 00:15:37.600 girl named Amy Stevens even though he's twenty, which is fucking. 270 00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:41.919 Gross yeah and illegal, yes, But and. 271 00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:45.039 I don't know how authorities never stepped in on that 272 00:15:45.159 --> 00:15:46.960 part of this story, But I digress. 273 00:15:47.200 --> 00:15:49.200 Okay, Wow, that's something. 274 00:15:49.480 --> 00:15:53.360 Yeah. Now, Laura didn't exactly like their age difference, and 275 00:15:53.440 --> 00:15:56.960 I can totally understand why. And she didn't exactly hide 276 00:15:56.960 --> 00:16:00.840 how she felt about it either. She openly criticized the relationship, 277 00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:03.240 telling Paul and others that the age gap was wrong 278 00:16:03.399 --> 00:16:07.399 and quite inappropriate. And according to later statements, this wasn't 279 00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:10.840 a one time comment. Laura brought it up fairly often. 280 00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:14.279 Well fair, I mean someone kind of has to step in. 281 00:16:14.759 --> 00:16:17.440 I agree a six year age gap isn't necessarily bad, 282 00:16:17.480 --> 00:16:21.360 but when it's that, when they're that young ish is. 283 00:16:21.519 --> 00:16:22.240 She's a child? 284 00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:23.000 Yeah? 285 00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:26.320 Now, fourteen year old Amy, for her part, didn't like 286 00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:29.639 Laura at all. She was openly jealous of the time 287 00:16:29.720 --> 00:16:32.639 Paul spent around her and resented the fact that Laura 288 00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:36.639 lived with her boyfriend. Even simple interactions between Paul and 289 00:16:36.679 --> 00:16:41.720 Laura repeatedly set Amy off. Now, over time, that resentment 290 00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:45.519 grew sharper, turning into hostility, and the apartment became a 291 00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:49.159 bit of a pressure cooker. To say, arguments were frequent 292 00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:53.759 alliances formed and shifted, and Laura, already emotionally fragile from 293 00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:57.240 the breakup and her mother's death, was increasingly isolated inside 294 00:16:57.240 --> 00:17:00.399 the very place meant to keep her safe. She had 295 00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:04.400 limited money and no nearby family. Leaving wasn't just easy, 296 00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:08.319 even if she wanted to. To investigators, this period became 297 00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:12.079 very crucial. It showed Laura was trapped in a small, 298 00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:16.599 unstable world where tensions were escalating and boundaries were being crossed, 299 00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:21.039 and it helped explain why. When a camping trip was suggested, 300 00:17:21.319 --> 00:17:23.960 a chance to reset in a group of friends, to 301 00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:25.720 get out of the apartment and away from all that 302 00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:31.759 constant friction, Laura agreed to go so. With Laura now 303 00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:35.720 identified in a rough timeline beginning to take shape, investigators 304 00:17:35.720 --> 00:17:38.119 shifted the attention to the people who'd been closest to 305 00:17:38.119 --> 00:17:42.119 her in the days before she disappeared. That focus landed 306 00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:45.599 quickly on her inner circle in Reading. Police started with 307 00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:49.880 her ex boyfriend Timothy Smith. He told investigators that he'd 308 00:17:49.880 --> 00:17:52.920 broken off their engagement around March thirtieth, more than two 309 00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:57.119 weeks before Laura's body was discovered. According to Tim, Laura 310 00:17:57.160 --> 00:18:00.839 moved out shortly after the breakup, and he hadn't seen 311 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:04.440 her again since. When officers informed him that Laura had 312 00:18:04.480 --> 00:18:09.279 been murdered, he appeared genuinely distraught and upset. His story 313 00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:12.200 was consistent, and while he was an obvious person of 314 00:18:12.279 --> 00:18:16.319 interest early on, nothing immediately tied him to the crime scene. 315 00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:19.440 From there, investigators turned to the apartment where Laura had 316 00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:23.400 been staying. Laurie Smith confirmed that Laura had been living 317 00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:26.039 with her and Paul after the breakup. She described Laura 318 00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:28.440 as part of their friend group, but admitted things had 319 00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:32.519 become strained. She told investigators how tensions inside the apartment 320 00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:35.640 had been building for the last few days and weeks, 321 00:18:35.680 --> 00:18:39.960 even mostly centered around Paul's relationship with Amy. Laurie also 322 00:18:40.039 --> 00:18:43.799 acknowledged that Laura had openly disapproved of the relationship and 323 00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:48.400 that arguments had become common on that subject. Amy's interview 324 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:51.880 was next, and it certainly stood out she didn't try 325 00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:54.720 to hide her dislike for Laura. She admitted there had 326 00:18:54.759 --> 00:18:57.599 been conflict and confirmed that a heated argument had occurred 327 00:18:57.640 --> 00:19:01.400 shortly before Laura vanished. Even she claimed she had given 328 00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:05.519 Paul an ultimatum either Laura had to leave or she 329 00:19:05.599 --> 00:19:10.759 would still. Amy denied knowing what ultimately happened to Laura, 330 00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:13.480 insisting that last time she saw her was during a 331 00:19:13.519 --> 00:19:18.319 group camping trip in the Trinity Alps. It seemed investigators 332 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:21.279 now had a pattern, a background, but not proof of 333 00:19:21.319 --> 00:19:26.000 anything yet. Well, maybe a little bit. They now knew 334 00:19:26.200 --> 00:19:28.759 that the group was in fact camping in the Alps 335 00:19:28.759 --> 00:19:30.039 with her when she went missing. 336 00:19:31.160 --> 00:19:33.079 Well, I just have to say, is she the only 337 00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:37.640 one with values too? Because the fact that she does 338 00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:41.039 have a problem with this age gap makes her correct. Yes, 339 00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:44.240 And everyone just seems like, I don't know. Of course 340 00:19:44.279 --> 00:19:46.359 she would be speaking up about this. I feel like 341 00:19:46.440 --> 00:19:48.799 she has to. It's like almost her right as an adult. 342 00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:53.000 Yeah, and to protect someone of that age from predatory 343 00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:57.319 behavior someone who's much older, I gotcha. Yes, she's right, 344 00:19:57.400 --> 00:20:00.640 she should be standing up and agains the others in 345 00:20:00.680 --> 00:20:03.599 the group. Yeah, they're well, they're not so good. 346 00:20:03.880 --> 00:20:05.119 No. 347 00:20:05.119 --> 00:20:09.279 Now, everyone's stories overlapped just enough to seem plausible that 348 00:20:09.319 --> 00:20:12.559 they hadn't seen her since the camping trip. Yet conveniently enough, 349 00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:15.839 none of them had any explanation of the injuries found 350 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:18.880 in Laura's body. No one mentioned a bag over her head, 351 00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:21.519 and no one could explain how she ended up buried 352 00:20:21.880 --> 00:20:26.559 at a remote campsite, so detectives couldn't make an arrest 353 00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:29.839 based on suspicions alone, and at this point the investigation, 354 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:32.039 all they knew for certain was that Laura had been 355 00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:36.160 alive while surrounded by this group, and that whatever happened 356 00:20:36.200 --> 00:20:41.359 to her, it didn't happen at random. Not long after 357 00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:45.359 those initial interviews, Amy Stevens returned to investigators with what 358 00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:49.160 she said was the full story of what happened in 359 00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:52.680 the woods that day. According to Amy, the group had 360 00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:55.279 gone camping together as a way to cool off tensions 361 00:20:55.400 --> 00:20:57.680 and reset after weeks of arguments, right. 362 00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:00.079 Which is not necessarily a bad idea. 363 00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:03.559 It's, you know something, It's kind of like a group retreat, right, 364 00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:08.759 start fresh. The trip included Paul, Laurie, Eric Rubio, and 365 00:21:08.839 --> 00:21:13.319 Laura and Amy herself. There was alcohol, there was even drugs, 366 00:21:13.319 --> 00:21:16.920 and a lot of unresolved resentment was simmering underneath the surface. 367 00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:20.359 Amy admitted that she was jealous of Laura and didn't 368 00:21:20.440 --> 00:21:23.000 like her presence in Paul's life, but insisted things were 369 00:21:23.079 --> 00:21:26.720 never going to go as far as killing someone. Amy 370 00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:29.480 told detectives that at some point during the trip, Laura 371 00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:34.119 made a romantic advance toward Paul, which he of course rejected, 372 00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:38.960 and Amy said it deeply embarrassed Laura. So, according to Amy, 373 00:21:39.240 --> 00:21:43.359 Laura became upset and was intoxicated and emotional, and she 374 00:21:43.519 --> 00:21:47.160 said Laura ran off into the woods alone, disappearing into 375 00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:51.880 the darkness, and according to her story, no one followed her. 376 00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:56.720 The group instead waited for a while, assuming Laura would 377 00:21:56.759 --> 00:21:59.480 calm down and return, but when she didn't, they just 378 00:21:59.559 --> 00:22:02.319 eventually packed up and left the campsite, believing she had 379 00:22:02.319 --> 00:22:04.960 either walked back on her own or found another way 380 00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:08.640 out of the area. Amy insisted that was the last 381 00:22:08.720 --> 00:22:11.359 time she ever saw Laura alive. 382 00:22:12.839 --> 00:22:14.599 I have trouble buying that it just took her a 383 00:22:14.599 --> 00:22:17.640 few days to come up with that story. Maybe, Hey, well, I. 384 00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:20.400 Mean tell me, as to her credit, people do wander 385 00:22:20.440 --> 00:22:24.480 off while drunk at times. You know, that's not unheard of, 386 00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:28.319 to say the least, and arguments happened too. And the 387 00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:31.000 you know, the area of the Trinity Alps, it's this 388 00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:34.240 very vast and unforgiving landscape, especially at night too, when 389 00:22:34.279 --> 00:22:36.799 you're out in the wilderness and an unfamiliar area. So 390 00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:39.880 Amy's version, it offers a very clean explanation for why 391 00:22:39.960 --> 00:22:43.839 Laura was alone in such a remote place, But there 392 00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:45.720 was a lot of problems with her version two. 393 00:22:46.200 --> 00:22:49.480 I guess what I have trouble is believing that Laura 394 00:22:49.599 --> 00:22:56.079 made at a pass or like a move on on 395 00:22:56.200 --> 00:23:01.440 Amy's boyfriend. Yeah, I agree, Paul, That's what his name is, right, Yeah. 396 00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:05.480 But Devil's Advocate. Even if she did, even if she 397 00:23:05.720 --> 00:23:10.279 did make a pass at Paul, I mean, investigators already 398 00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:13.160 knew Laura hadn't simply wandered off like Amy's trying to say. 399 00:23:13.759 --> 00:23:17.519 Her body had actually showed signs of restraint. The wounds 400 00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:20.400 on her wrists weren't consistent with fall or exposure to 401 00:23:20.480 --> 00:23:24.160