1
00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:10,000
Speaker 1: Let's keep it on topic.

2
00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:15,320
Speaker 2: One plus one plus one equal free icons are idolatry

3
00:00:15,839 --> 00:00:16,440
j J.

4
00:00:16,719 --> 00:00:19,960
Speaker 1: But Jake, can I talk? But it wasn't Next Catholic?

5
00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:20,440
Speaker 3: Drive?

6
00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:21,600
Speaker 4: God is real?

7
00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:23,079
Speaker 3: Why does he allow evil?

8
00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,519
Speaker 1: Why do you pray to dead people? Traditions of men?

9
00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:28,000
Speaker 5: It's a no brainer.

10
00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,480
Speaker 6: You're such a tyrannical rainer.

11
00:00:36,079 --> 00:00:38,159
Speaker 1: Is this your first time Ondian?

12
00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:39,000
Speaker 4: Or well?

13
00:00:39,719 --> 00:00:40,000
Speaker 7: Think it?

14
00:00:40,119 --> 00:00:41,759
Speaker 3: These loads? You're slow boys?

15
00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:46,240
Speaker 1: Is this your first time on Dean Well?

16
00:00:47,359 --> 00:00:48,280
Speaker 3: I need a JR.

17
00:00:48,439 --> 00:00:48,960
Speaker 5: Show?

18
00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:50,880
Speaker 1: Was that an uncreated's foot part?

19
00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:52,079
Speaker 5: Unmute?

20
00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:52,439
Speaker 2: Dude?

21
00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:54,280
Speaker 5: Stop repeating my name?

22
00:00:54,479 --> 00:00:54,799
Speaker 8: Dude?

23
00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,479
Speaker 5: You goober's callin or I'll boot you.

24
00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:00,600
Speaker 1: Where did we get the Bible from? Have you read

25
00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:03,880
the Canons of Franzia? What are you Catholic?

26
00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:05,120
Speaker 5: Are you considens?

27
00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,359
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to be me, but do you have

28
00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:08,799
an actual argument?

29
00:01:09,159 --> 00:01:11,640
Speaker 5: There is only one church? You are in a cult?

30
00:01:12,239 --> 00:01:13,920
Speaker 1: You're a goblin, a demon?

31
00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:14,840
Speaker 9: A boomer?

32
00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:17,239
Speaker 10: Quick question?

33
00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:20,799
Speaker 1: Do we have any diddyback venerators in.

34
00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:24,959
Speaker 11: The chatw Is this your first time mom being?

35
00:01:25,359 --> 00:01:25,840
Speaker 1: Or well?

36
00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:29,519
Speaker 3: I need a ginger too, can't take it?

37
00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:30,200
Speaker 4: These loads?

38
00:01:30,239 --> 00:01:34,200
Speaker 3: You're slow boys? Are you? Is this your first time

39
00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:38,079
mom bey? Wh I need a ginger too.

40
00:01:38,719 --> 00:01:40,239
Speaker 12: If you're a wine in front of the.

41
00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:53,200
Speaker 1: Line, I'm you, dude, what is your epistemic justification?

42
00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,920
Speaker 5: That argument is circular and you are refuted.

43
00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:00,680
Speaker 3: Is this your first time on me?

44
00:02:01,359 --> 00:02:02,480
Speaker 1: Or were shame?

45
00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:06,359
Speaker 3: I need to change your show. Can't take it these loads.

46
00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:12,039
Speaker 1: You're so boy? Is this your first time on me? Well,

47
00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:14,639
I need to change your show.

48
00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:16,719
Speaker 5: It's you're a lie mom front.

49
00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:17,080
Speaker 1: Of a lie.

50
00:02:17,879 --> 00:02:18,479
Speaker 5: Mute dude.

51
00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:28,400
Speaker 10: How am I hoarding underwater.

52
00:02:32,439 --> 00:02:33,520
Speaker 13: For years to keep me hying?

53
00:02:42,199 --> 00:02:44,439
Speaker 3: There's only one thing that can bring them together.

54
00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:46,039
Speaker 10: Begin with.

55
00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,319
Speaker 3: You wouldn't where because you.

56
00:02:51,439 --> 00:02:52,439
Speaker 5: Want to take the world.

57
00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:01,599
Speaker 3: Take half up.

58
00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:06,280
Speaker 12: Bakers, get on the floors, bankers, fea people, poks, Bakers,

59
00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:07,319
give on pain.

60
00:03:07,599 --> 00:03:15,120
Speaker 3: Bakers, give a name, name your name name, I'm gonna

61
00:03:15,159 --> 00:03:18,120
see you'll ask more c os.

62
00:03:18,759 --> 00:03:19,439
Speaker 10: Yeah, I'm talking to you.

63
00:03:20,039 --> 00:03:23,319
Speaker 12: Get more hoes, gim on pe, get more boots, give leave.

64
00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,840
I want to see the CEOs more the nights to

65
00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:33,000
the peak. Ruin those slides and one hundred and forty

66
00:03:33,039 --> 00:03:33,759
one bb.

67
00:03:37,039 --> 00:03:45,159
Speaker 14: Oh so cool.

68
00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:56,759
Speaker 3: Your name name name, name your name name.

69
00:03:57,680 --> 00:03:59,479
Speaker 1: Day the day, your day?

70
00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,840
Speaker 3: Check to that shake, take that shake.

71
00:04:04,479 --> 00:04:06,599
Speaker 4: All a middle class.

72
00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:11,199
Speaker 3: See egos, get on your toes. You're place, but it

73
00:04:11,479 --> 00:04:16,480
just race. I want to see the banker on the floor.

74
00:04:18,439 --> 00:04:20,160
I want to see your ass boor.

75
00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:27,680
Speaker 10: Make it clap, make it kiak clap shake that.

76
00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:40,680
Speaker 3: Who's reading. I'm gonna chak here. Bankers get on the floor.

77
00:04:40,959 --> 00:04:42,600
Bankers people boors.

78
00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:48,959
Speaker 12: Bankers, you're gonna pay baker you wanna name, make you

79
00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:50,399
read the killer.

80
00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:52,240
Speaker 9: Struct in the.

81
00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:59,959
Speaker 3: Middle class and more Fiat cash if my baker cat.

82
00:05:07,639 --> 00:05:10,879
Speaker 12: Bankers get on the floor. Bankers make some people poor.

83
00:05:11,199 --> 00:05:15,240
Bankers get more pain. Bankers bank my.

84
00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:17,199
Speaker 15: Bang bang, my bang bang bang bang and my wang

85
00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:19,439
bake and my my bank, my bang bank and my

86
00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:22,079
bang bang bang bang in my bang bake, my right bank,

87
00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:23,839
to my bank bank, to my bank bank bank bank,

88
00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:25,720
to my bank bank, to my bank bank bank t

89
00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,360
my bank bank do my bank bank bank bank bankes.

90
00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:34,120
Speaker 3: Mhm h.

91
00:05:35,839 --> 00:05:36,680
Speaker 16: H h.

92
00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:41,240
Speaker 3: Yeah h.

93
00:05:49,040 --> 00:06:05,759
Speaker 7: M So last night, Hey Piggy, pay Piggy.

94
00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:11,000
Speaker 10: Don't make me go back to that ninety.

95
00:06:10,879 --> 00:06:18,480
Speaker 3: Five way shock. There's no way to be alive. Don't

96
00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:24,360
make me go to ninety five way shot. There's no

97
00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:28,240
way to be alive. Foot by big.

98
00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:34,639
Speaker 1: Just give me one loss of jacket, Hey, Giggy.

99
00:06:35,519 --> 00:06:40,639
Speaker 17: Just give me one more super Chance Pay Piggy, just

100
00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:46,279
give me one more sage pay Piggy, just give.

101
00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:50,120
Speaker 2: Me one boot with my boot one on one missed

102
00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:55,240
to Danny mixed free gears. We had the baby, she

103
00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:59,120
went the such she won, Gucchie gotta lay down on

104
00:06:59,319 --> 00:07:02,480
my pants and the lambo because she don't like my brother.

105
00:07:04,079 --> 00:07:08,240
She got a damnond crew and a baby day. But

106
00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:12,600
you know I'm not a mattery yelloist and nadi yell list.

107
00:07:12,959 --> 00:07:14,839
I flow with the transcendental.

108
00:07:14,959 --> 00:07:15,560
Speaker 5: I gave me.

109
00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:21,120
Speaker 2: Reading Viggenstein, investigate my girl philosophically.

110
00:07:22,199 --> 00:07:23,399
Speaker 10: Yeah, do you know what?

111
00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:31,759
Speaker 9: I just give me one more chat, Just give me

112
00:07:31,839 --> 00:07:33,639
one more super chems.

113
00:07:34,279 --> 00:07:40,079
Speaker 17: Hey, Giggy, just give me one more cham pyggy.

114
00:07:40,639 --> 00:07:42,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, just give me one.

115
00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:42,720
Speaker 5: Yeah.

116
00:07:42,759 --> 00:07:43,720
Speaker 3: I'll try it up.

117
00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:45,279
Speaker 5: I'll shut a video girl.

118
00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,279
Speaker 1: I want my heart once she win my work. I

119
00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:49,839
see you in the souper chet.

120
00:07:49,959 --> 00:07:52,959
Speaker 10: I see you all right? What's up? Everybody? Welcome to

121
00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:56,240
another open forum, another Q and A. And this time,

122
00:07:57,639 --> 00:08:00,639
because every time we do it, people don't call in

123
00:08:00,759 --> 00:08:04,680
about what's listed as the topic, I'm gonna open it

124
00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,000
up for the people who have the f a q's,

125
00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:15,160
So bring your f a Q questions and bring your uh,

126
00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:22,040
bring your tongue talking victory. We got any tongue talking

127
00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:25,360
evangelicals and want to set a straight rebucus. Y'all know

128
00:08:25,399 --> 00:08:29,959
how it is. I'm talking about PAULA White. I'm talking

129
00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,039
about vibing with Paul White. I got I'm talking about

130
00:08:32,159 --> 00:08:33,159
PAULA White anointing.

131
00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:35,519
Speaker 1: I hear a sound of an abundance of rain.

132
00:08:35,799 --> 00:08:37,480
Speaker 3: I hear a sound of victory.

133
00:08:37,919 --> 00:08:40,000
Speaker 1: I hear a sound of an abundance of rain.

134
00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,399
Speaker 18: I hear a victory.

135
00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:48,279
Speaker 14: Is done, It is done, is done.

136
00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:50,960
Speaker 7: I hear victory, victory.

137
00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:01,919
Speaker 5: Now for being right now.

138
00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:13,919
Speaker 3: Shot and I hear a sound of victory.

139
00:09:14,399 --> 00:09:21,000
Speaker 9: I hear, I hear a sound of victory, buckets of rings.

140
00:09:21,159 --> 00:09:23,440
Speaker 19: I hear the sound of the.

141
00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:27,159
Speaker 7: Lord says it is done.

142
00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:29,320
Speaker 1: The Lord says it is done.

143
00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,840
Speaker 20: Girl victory, victory in the quarters of heaven.

144
00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:37,399
Speaker 13: In the quarters of heaven, you go, girl victory.

145
00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:42,639
Speaker 10: Who don't sell them orbs coming out of my mouth?

146
00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:48,519
Don't sprayed my I don sprayed my computer. My i'ma's

147
00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:53,840
gonna gonna crash out because I sprayed it with orbs. Dog,

148
00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:59,960
Welcome everybody to another open forum. Dog, y'all, thought that, y'all.

149
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,399
I just blew y'all's mind with just some like just

150
00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,240
some low level random be boxing. Not even that ain't

151
00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:08,279
even my real bee boxing. Dude, kim Jong two dollars

152
00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:11,519
usual read on the drips floor, Allan, you five dollars,

153
00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:23,000
keep them stacks fat cash. And speaking of stacks, I'm

154
00:10:23,039 --> 00:10:25,600
not talking about super chats. I'm not talking about weak

155
00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:30,879
ass fiat. I'm talking about BTC baby. Today was a

156
00:10:31,519 --> 00:10:32,720
great BTC day.

157
00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:34,759
Speaker 4: And.

158
00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:40,440
Speaker 10: Since all of the bills have been paid, today was

159
00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,519
one of those days where we got to do a

160
00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:47,360
little bit of some pretty big level stacking today, y'all.

161
00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:54,039
I hope you're listening. And in the near future, because

162
00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:56,759
many people requested it, I did get Sipha Dean's book

163
00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:02,120
we will be covering in the near future seiphieden Amus's

164
00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:08,000
book Bigcoin Standard, so looking forward to that. Also got

165
00:11:08,039 --> 00:11:14,440
in the mail. Because it's good Friday, it's good news day,

166
00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:21,039
it's high level Bitcoin stocking day over here. In terms

167
00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,399
of what I'm what I think I think it is.

168
00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,519
Shout out to Eddie Bravo, who lists I've never heard

169
00:11:28,519 --> 00:11:32,279
of this book. The last Eddie Bravo podcast I did

170
00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,360
with him. When he had me on, he said, you

171
00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,600
gotta you gotta read John Stockwell, dude. It was like

172
00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:43,440
John Stockwell. So I got John Stockwell right here, not

173
00:11:43,639 --> 00:11:50,080
John Stockton. I'm currently wearing tight John Stockton ball gazer pants.

174
00:11:50,879 --> 00:11:53,360
If you remember the eighties, you'll remember John Stockton Utah

175
00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:58,600
jazz right to show your balls. I'm wearing those. But

176
00:11:58,639 --> 00:12:04,639
I'm talking about John Stockwell, in charge of the CIA

177
00:12:04,759 --> 00:12:07,960
Angola Desk and all the Angola operations. Well, guess what,

178
00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:14,440
when he left in nineteen eighty whatever two, he wrote

179
00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:18,279
a tell all of all the CIA operations in Angola.

180
00:12:18,759 --> 00:12:22,000
And I don't know much about CIA operations in Africa,

181
00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:24,919
so it's gonna be fun to I've read the first

182
00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:30,519
couple of chapters already. He talks about Kissinger basically deciding

183
00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:36,360
and determining everything that would happen. And we've got also

184
00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,440
these two, of course, we're going to do in the

185
00:12:38,519 --> 00:12:42,879
near future, probably from members. We've got other side of

186
00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:46,679
deception and by way of deception, and of course those

187
00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:51,039
are going to figure heavily in the upcoming debate with

188
00:12:53,600 --> 00:13:00,559
apostate prophet. I'm debating a postate profit July Li second

189
00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:02,720
I think it's hot in here. Hold, I gotta turn

190
00:13:02,759 --> 00:13:12,080
the hair on. Who sweating? It's done? Man, got to

191
00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,039
order in for double double espresso. That's four if you

192
00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:21,039
can't count. Shout out to Paula White for that hype

193
00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,639
dope freestyle she just dropped for everybody. That's me on

194
00:13:24,759 --> 00:13:27,720
the backups. By the way, somebody used a clip that

195
00:13:28,519 --> 00:13:32,639
because I'm gonna share me beatboxing to Paula White. There's

196
00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:34,559
nobody out there in this audience who can deny that

197
00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:39,759
that was straight fresh. You didn't realize that was me?

198
00:13:41,039 --> 00:13:45,960
Jamie is like, that was you? Yeah, I can beat

199
00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:55,440
Bucks shocker duh, of course. Contemporary Commit Companion five dollars,

200
00:13:55,720 --> 00:14:00,679
bring all your freaking questions. Adolfo Ibarra, that's oh man,

201
00:14:00,879 --> 00:14:04,679
I have to I have to send my condolences for

202
00:14:04,759 --> 00:14:09,120
your last name there, Abara, Adolpho a Bara five dollars.

203
00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:14,039
Shouldn't these days be time of repentance, silence and reflection

204
00:14:14,279 --> 00:14:17,679
and you should avoid music, Well, then you don't need

205
00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:19,759
to be over here on my channel, in fact, because

206
00:14:19,799 --> 00:14:23,639
it is a day of repentance and joy, even though

207
00:14:23,639 --> 00:14:28,399
it's a dark day in the sense of the shroud

208
00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,200
of our lady we are out of here in a

209
00:14:31,279 --> 00:14:34,879
couple hours to go to the service. So if you

210
00:14:35,639 --> 00:14:37,960
don't want to be involved in open q and A,

211
00:14:38,159 --> 00:14:40,919
nobody's making you be here. That's why I said today

212
00:14:41,039 --> 00:14:45,360
in the chat, in the show description today is open

213
00:14:45,679 --> 00:14:48,960
q and A. We're giving precedents to people who have

214
00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,759
questions over the people who want to debate. Did you

215
00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,639
hear that most of the time it's open for him

216
00:14:54,679 --> 00:14:57,120
for people who want to debate. And I said, because

217
00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:02,559
it's good Friday, it's open q and A, so ibarra.

218
00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:06,159
You don't have to watch the stream. You can go elsewhere.

219
00:15:06,399 --> 00:15:08,639
Kim Jong un two dollars? How do you take notes

220
00:15:08,679 --> 00:15:12,200
when you read? Basically, as I pointed out, there's not

221
00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:16,080
too difficult of a pattern or of a structure for me. Really,

222
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:20,360
all I do is summarize what's on that page in

223
00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:25,559
a sticky note. So that's it. So here's my study

224
00:15:25,639 --> 00:15:30,480
Bible Koran. You see the sticky notes. So you just

225
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:38,200
summarize what's on that page. That's it. Allah is the

226
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:42,000
author of the psalms you see, according to this section

227
00:15:42,279 --> 00:15:46,759
of the Qur'an. And that would mean that Allah can't

228
00:15:46,799 --> 00:15:49,519
contradict if he said the same thing in the songs

229
00:15:49,559 --> 00:15:51,840
that he says in here, right, So you'll see that

230
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,879
most of my note taking is in that style. It's

231
00:15:55,000 --> 00:16:00,159
just there's no color coded system, there's no like know,

232
00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:05,080
super intricate method. It's literally just summarizing what's on the

233
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,840
page here we have. I think this is discussing the

234
00:16:07,919 --> 00:16:12,039
early Solafi and it ben to mea and these characters.

235
00:16:13,039 --> 00:16:17,360
And I underline a lot because if you're involved in

236
00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:23,000
a tactile way, when you're reading and underlining a lot,

237
00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:27,279
it helps you to retain that I found that may

238
00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:29,639
not be the same for everyone. And so you can

239
00:16:29,679 --> 00:16:33,440
see at the top, I summarize in the sticky notes

240
00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:35,720
what's on the page that's relevant so that I can

241
00:16:36,559 --> 00:16:39,840
find it more easily when I need to refer to it.

242
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:46,960
That's about it. There's no there's no like, you know,

243
00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:54,159
super crazy, super awesome secret method to doing it for me.

244
00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:59,600
Test tube freak five dollars. They're spraying orbs in the sky.

245
00:17:00,399 --> 00:17:04,039
They're given my five g gingivitis pyramids deep in Georgia.

246
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:06,960
Hoo ad healer on the earth, sweating it exactly. I

247
00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,359
like the way you think Alexander Kane became a member

248
00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:14,680
theosis sends ten dollars. Today, I clicked to talk. They're

249
00:17:14,799 --> 00:17:16,799
in the space to Q and A. Okay, we'll bring

250
00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,480
you up here in a second. We got ten people

251
00:17:19,519 --> 00:17:23,680
in line already, eight people. Excuse me? What is the

252
00:17:23,759 --> 00:17:27,400
account for the transcendental argument? Ryan Clancy? Two dollars? Well,

253
00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:31,680
given that the transcendent argument is prior to argumentation, it's

254
00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:35,000
an argument for an entire paradigm, and thus it would

255
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,640
be a category error to think that the transcendental argument

256
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:42,279
for God is some kind of abstracted conceptual thing that

257
00:17:42,839 --> 00:17:48,039
is equivalent to logical argumentation. It's the precondition for logic

258
00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:53,839
and argumentation. But it uses logic. Correct, It's that's unavoidable.

259
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:59,599
Every argument uses logic, even metallogical arguments, And that's the

260
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:03,920
point servant of the almighty two dollars. How do I

261
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,079
start reading? If my brain is fried, I would take

262
00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:10,160
it easy and start small. So don't you know a

263
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:13,559
lot of times people in a lot of different arenas

264
00:18:13,599 --> 00:18:15,839
and disciplines, you know, they want to take on like

265
00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:21,680
the most extravagant, you know, extreme thing. Oh, I just

266
00:18:21,759 --> 00:18:26,039
bought my first guitar. I'm gonna learn you know, all

267
00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:30,279
of Jimmy Page's solos. Okay, well, you're probably not gonna

268
00:18:30,279 --> 00:18:32,839
be able to do that when you just bought your guitar, right,

269
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,799
You're gonna need to learn the basics, So you gotta

270
00:18:35,839 --> 00:18:39,240
start small. Don't try to Oh, I just decide I'm

271
00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,279
gonna start reading. I'm gonna I'm gonna pick up Brothers

272
00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:43,920
Karamatsov can On. No, you don't need to start there.

273
00:18:44,839 --> 00:18:47,200
If you're new to reading and you want to read

274
00:18:48,799 --> 00:18:53,160
something simple theologically speaking, I would say something like God's

275
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,680
Revelation to the Human Heart by Father Sara from Rose.

276
00:18:57,640 --> 00:18:59,599
And if you want to start getting in the practice

277
00:18:59,599 --> 00:19:04,319
of reading fictional texts, I would say start with Narnia. Yeah,

278
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,000
I'm not kidding now. I know it's written for kids,

279
00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:10,279
but it's also written for kids back when kids were

280
00:19:10,319 --> 00:19:13,480
way more educated than they are today. So if you're

281
00:19:13,519 --> 00:19:15,839
new to reading, you're probably reading at a kid level.

282
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,480
And not being to be mean, I'm saying quite literally,

283
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:23,079
you're probably reading what a young grade schooler was reading

284
00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:27,079
in England one hundred years ago. So take it easy

285
00:19:27,319 --> 00:19:31,559
and you work your way up from that to something like,

286
00:19:32,319 --> 00:19:36,839
you know, a little more advanced reading texts in both

287
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:40,160
fiction and nonfiction. I would say to be a competent

288
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:44,000
reader or an educated person. It's not just academic texts.

289
00:19:44,039 --> 00:19:46,200
It's not just you also need to be able to

290
00:19:46,319 --> 00:19:50,680
understand and interpret literature, because guess what significant portions of

291
00:19:50,759 --> 00:19:54,559
the Bible are literature. In other words, if God saw

292
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:58,720
fit to speak in various ways in literature and in history,

293
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:06,799
and in gospel and an epistle and in proverb, then

294
00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:10,759
it stands to reason that perhaps we should be well

295
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,839
educated if we want to be educated. Nobody's forcing you.

296
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:17,400
You don't have to be educated. There's no requirement that

297
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:21,000
you have to be, you know, an academic or something

298
00:20:21,039 --> 00:20:23,000
like that. Different people have different gifts, and that's fine,

299
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,759
there's nothing wrong with that. But if you are so inclined,

300
00:20:27,079 --> 00:20:31,319
then yeah, I would say start out with reading, you know,

301
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,599
something simple in both nonfiction and fiction, and then working

302
00:20:34,599 --> 00:20:37,079
a way up to more advanced texts. A ten dollars

303
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:41,000
congratulations to all the new Orthodox that received this lastra Saturday,

304
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,599
and those will be received at postco welcome home. Absolutely,

305
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,039
did you know that we had a guy, Father Deacon.

306
00:20:47,039 --> 00:20:48,680
I don't know if you heard this, if you're still here,

307
00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:51,079
there was a guy who commented and said that in

308
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,200
the UK under one I couldn't tell if he was

309
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,960
saying under one bishop or just one priest under a bishop.

310
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:01,759
They had two hundred people brought in this last week

311
00:21:02,079 --> 00:21:05,960
in the UK at one parish. Two hundred at one parish.

312
00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:18,559
That's crazy. Luis Toro five dollars. Can you do an

313
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,160
end up video on Pentecostals. There's sixty five million in

314
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:25,440
America now, supposedly between them in charismatics. We have addressed

315
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,799
it many times. I've done many no new revelation videos,

316
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:33,599
and I've done many, you know, evangelical megachurch videos which

317
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:35,440
would include them. But yes, I guess we can do

318
00:21:35,519 --> 00:21:39,119
a whole stream dedicated just to Pentecostals and Charismatics. That's

319
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:41,640
probably a good idea. Gumstick twenty dollars. Thank you for

320
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:43,200
all these streams, Jay gob Blis, thank you man. I

321
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,599
appreciate that. Happy Good Friday to everybody, and I want

322
00:21:45,599 --> 00:21:47,839
to remind everybody that we do have a special message

323
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:52,480
from Father Vladimir. He said to me to tell everyone

324
00:21:52,799 --> 00:21:56,200
to not be caught up in drama and to focus

325
00:21:56,279 --> 00:21:59,160
on the most important thing, which is going to church.

326
00:21:59,319 --> 00:22:02,240
So to all you signalers who are asking me why

327
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:05,279
I'm talking about this today, it's precisely because he was.

328
00:22:05,559 --> 00:22:07,920
He asked me to talk about these things today and

329
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:12,119
to remind everybody to not care about internet drama because

330
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,680
in two months, nobody will care about internet drama, but

331
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:21,000
Pasca will matter in two months, you see. So the

332
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,559
message for the third time from Father Vladimir to me

333
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,039
and to all of you is to make sure to

334
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:31,559
go to church, especially at this time when the spiritual

335
00:22:31,599 --> 00:22:34,680
warfare is so heavy and the grace is heavy. You see,

336
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:40,039
the grace is heavy right now, and tonight is the

337
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:50,240
shroud service. I believe that's right. As browseie ten dollars.

338
00:22:50,519 --> 00:22:53,240
I went to get a haircut, the dude that cut

339
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,720
my hair and brought up that fake ass Kay Perry

340
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,240
astronaut thing, and it turned into one hour of talks

341
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,640
about conspiracy and then it led to the Big Nine event.

342
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,920
That's usually how it goes. One event brings up all

343
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,480
the other events and then you're then you're into discussing.

344
00:23:09,319 --> 00:23:15,079
And look, the public is not uh literate. Remember we

345
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,799
saw this with Jose when he called in and he

346
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:21,799
was reading out stats that like only half of America

347
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:27,279
can actually read pool sign instructions and not just verbally

348
00:23:27,599 --> 00:23:32,279
like phonetically repeat it, but actually understand the pool sign instructions.

349
00:23:32,319 --> 00:23:36,119
I mean, that sounds pretty wild, but I kind of

350
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:41,480
I'm thinking maybe it's not that Well, so we're not

351
00:23:41,599 --> 00:23:49,480
just dealing with a bunch of hard headed goobers, We're

352
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:54,039
also dealing with illiterate, arrogant people who are all becoming

353
00:23:54,200 --> 00:24:02,640
incarnations of Dunning Krueger Peka knock five dollars. When are

354
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,119
you going to do your next open geopolitics stream? I

355
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,559
have questions and comments on Kosovo. I mean, all I

356
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:14,039
know about Kosovo is what's in the what Bob Behar

357
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:16,160
wrote about. I'm not talking about the fake interview with

358
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:19,400
Bob Bhar. I'm talking about what's in his book, and

359
00:24:19,519 --> 00:24:30,519
what's in Coleman's book on Serbia, and what's in the

360
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,160
chapter in Mark Curtis's book, which by the way, is

361
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,799
going to be very important in the apostate profit debate.

362
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:42,960
So beyond that, I'm not sure, Like I'm not an

363
00:24:43,799 --> 00:24:46,279
I'm not some expert on you know, Melusavic and the

364
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:48,240
Serbian situation. I could just tell you what I've read

365
00:24:48,279 --> 00:24:52,599
in those books. Excuse me, all right, we got to

366
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,279
get to the questions here or we'll not get.

367
00:24:57,839 --> 00:24:57,880
Speaker 5: So.

368
00:24:58,000 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 10: Now, if you do have a you know, sort of

369
00:24:59,599 --> 00:25:02,599
Q and A questions, that's fine today. I will go

370
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,720
to them, but let's make them quick and let's get

371
00:25:04,759 --> 00:25:07,640
to the point. If you're here to ask a question,

372
00:25:07,839 --> 00:25:11,160
ask the question. We don't need you preaching. Please don't

373
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,720
ramble on and on on. And if you're here to debate,

374
00:25:14,839 --> 00:25:17,640
let me know and then we'll go into the debate format.

375
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:19,720
It's up to you, guys. But I am giving precedent

376
00:25:19,799 --> 00:25:22,880
today to people who want to ask the FAQ style

377
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,279
questions because we always get those, and they always call

378
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:28,240
in when I'm doing debates. So today is for you.

379
00:25:28,559 --> 00:25:32,079
Al Queum project twenty dollars. As a Protestant, how come

380
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,000
pastors and elders become angry when I ask how come

381
00:25:35,039 --> 00:25:39,160
they don't talk about teaching us prayer and fasting and

382
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,720
the interpretation of the scripture's church history, chanting the Psalms.

383
00:25:42,759 --> 00:25:45,400
It seems like a common theme in most churches. Well

384
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,599
that's because Protestantism is a sect. So you know, I'm

385
00:25:48,599 --> 00:25:51,000
not trying to be rude to you or offend you,

386
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:57,119
but Protestanism does not have the sacraments, it doesn't have

387
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,559
the tradition, it doesn't have the correct canon scripture, it

388
00:26:00,599 --> 00:26:05,160
doesn't have all the things that you're asking questions about.

389
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,599
So that's why your Protestant pastor is not going to

390
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,720
give you sufficient answers. And hey, it's okay, I've been there.

391
00:26:10,799 --> 00:26:13,240
I had all the same questions to my Protestant pastors

392
00:26:13,279 --> 00:26:16,440
when I was asking these questions in two thousand and one,

393
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:20,200
two three taint enough and five dollars. Demons is a

394
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,680
underrated lcfsky book. Yeah, I would like to put it.

395
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:26,440
I would like to do it. I've only read Notes

396
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,440
from the Underground and Crime and Punishment, and I've read

397
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:40,480
the chapter on what's it called Grand Inquisitor. So if

398
00:26:40,519 --> 00:26:43,640
you take lit classes, even if you don't read the

399
00:26:43,759 --> 00:26:46,359
entirety of Brothers Kermonts of you will have a class

400
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:50,720
on Grand Inquisitor just that chapter. So but anyway, I

401
00:26:50,799 --> 00:26:56,200
want to read Idiot, I want to read Demons. I

402
00:26:56,279 --> 00:26:58,799
want to read the rest of Brothers Karmonts because I

403
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,000
really liked Notes from the under Ground and Crime and Punishment.

404
00:27:02,039 --> 00:27:04,519
We had a whole grad class on Crime and Punishment.

405
00:27:04,559 --> 00:27:07,319
I enjoyed it. Chandler White twenty dollars. I'm a cateechym

406
00:27:07,319 --> 00:27:10,279
and I'll be baptized at Pentecosts as long as as

407
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,480
well as with my four kids. My wife, however, is

408
00:27:13,559 --> 00:27:16,200
dabbling in Mormonism prior to my interest in this in

409
00:27:16,319 --> 00:27:19,599
the church or the our church. She's resistant to joining

410
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,160
myself and the kids. Do you have any advice? Well,

411
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,440
I mean, if she's open to listening to argumentation and critiques,

412
00:27:26,599 --> 00:27:29,839
then go watch the four hour deep dive that Jim,

413
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,359
Bob and I just did on Mormonism. If she's not

414
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,119
interested in hearing the critiques, I'm not sure what you

415
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,559
can do other than to just pray for her and

416
00:27:38,079 --> 00:27:42,279
you know, be kind. Luis Toro five dollars. I'm not

417
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,559
asking or answering those questions because they would pertain to

418
00:27:46,039 --> 00:27:51,440
private issues. Jonathan Kelly health issues. Jonathan Kelly five dollars,

419
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:57,720
triplely mention you on a Shields podcast in the appearance

420
00:27:58,559 --> 00:28:03,920
he talked about geo politics. Is there an appearance about

421
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:09,359
geopolitics and the cards? It depends on where they want

422
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:14,839
to go, because I'm not pro tiny mustache man, so

423
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,960
I don't know how committed he is to his oddball

424
00:28:20,599 --> 00:28:28,119
pro tiny mustache man positions. Brian Ramirez FI dollars, what

425
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,480
are you aposti profit? Going to debate whether the West

426
00:28:32,319 --> 00:28:37,240
Western intelligence agencies, including all of them, have been involved

427
00:28:37,279 --> 00:28:40,279
in funding ISIS and al Kada, funding army and training them.

428
00:28:41,839 --> 00:28:46,240
Lawrence John fifty knocks Happy Paska to you from a

429
00:28:46,359 --> 00:28:49,680
Romanian Orthodox in Norway. Thanks, man, appreciate that same to you.

430
00:28:51,279 --> 00:28:53,480
Whenever I see the Knox currency, which is, you know,

431
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,039
Nordic currency, I always think of North Korea. I don't

432
00:28:56,039 --> 00:28:57,720
know because it's Inokay, and I'm like, how are they

433
00:28:57,759 --> 00:29:03,319
sending me fifty North Korean currencies? Anyway? All right, let's

434
00:29:03,359 --> 00:29:06,240
go to open chat today again. Is to remind you, guys,

435
00:29:07,359 --> 00:29:11,640
precedents given to people who have cateycuman faq questions, because

436
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,880
those people always call in when I'm doing debates. Today

437
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,039
is for you guys. If you do want to debate,

438
00:29:16,119 --> 00:29:18,960
you can still call in. I will still engage you

439
00:29:19,119 --> 00:29:24,720
in a discourse if that is what you'd like. But

440
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:26,960
let's get keep it quick. We don't need a you know,

441
00:29:27,119 --> 00:29:30,440
fifty minutes of rerambling. Let's get to the point. What's up?

442
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:30,799
So far.

443
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 5: I Hey, Drean, what's up man?

444
00:29:34,119 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 21: I have a quick question about Christian ethics and specifically

445
00:29:37,759 --> 00:29:39,200
like forgiveness towards others.

446
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:40,119
Speaker 20: Now.

447
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:41,839
Speaker 21: I don't know if you've like spoken on this in

448
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,960
the past, and I know it's a bit like political

449
00:29:45,039 --> 00:29:48,000
right now, but with like the Metcalf situation, right, a

450
00:29:48,079 --> 00:29:52,039
man like forgiving someone who murdered his don like remorselessly.

451
00:29:52,319 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 10: Yeah. Yeah, So the answer to this is that there's

452
00:29:56,559 --> 00:30:01,160
no discrepancy or contradiction between desiring that there be justice

453
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,680
on behalf of the public and your family and other families,

454
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:11,119
and you at a personal level, eventually, through God's grace,

455
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,279
being able to at a personal level, forgive someone. So

456
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,519
both of those things can coexist at the same time.

457
00:30:16,599 --> 00:30:18,640
Because if we're think about it, if we're dominated by

458
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,359
the principle of love, it's very similar to when the

459
00:30:22,519 --> 00:30:27,240
Muslims asked Cyril and Methodius, how do you maintain the

460
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:32,519
commandment to keep Christ's love? But also you fight against

461
00:30:32,559 --> 00:30:36,640
Muslims and warfare and defend people, And the saint Cyril

462
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,799
and Methodias said to give one's life for another, even

463
00:30:40,839 --> 00:30:43,480
in battle, is an action of love, and so there's

464
00:30:43,519 --> 00:30:47,000
no discrepancy between loving and forgiving your enemies on a

465
00:30:47,079 --> 00:30:51,000
personal level and at the same time hoping for divine

466
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,440
justice and self defense.

467
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,119
Speaker 21: So like a judge can love a criminal but still

468
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,039
like justly sentence them, understand that.

469
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 10: He has a duty to it would be a crime

470
00:31:03,559 --> 00:31:11,519
against justice to not hold to the law. And likewise,

471
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:15,640
if the father of this guy does not want justice,

472
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,640
then that's actually a crime against the rest of society.

473
00:31:22,119 --> 00:31:23,359
Speaker 22: Yeah, thank you.

474
00:31:23,759 --> 00:31:26,519
Speaker 10: Yeah, So it cuts both ways that people want to

475
00:31:26,519 --> 00:31:28,799
try to use this as some and by the way,

476
00:31:28,799 --> 00:31:32,119
a lot of people are cowards, and cowards will use

477
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:37,119
supposed forgiveness and tolerance and love for a cloak for

478
00:31:37,279 --> 00:31:41,640
every bit of wickedness, every bit of cowardice, and every vice.

479
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:43,400
In fact, even some of the saints and elders point

480
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,279
out that a lot of people's piety is a cloak

481
00:31:46,359 --> 00:31:50,480
for their own cowardice and their own vices.

482
00:31:53,759 --> 00:32:03,359
Speaker 4: Jeremy, hey, Hey, my question is in orthodoxy, a is

483
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,079
there certain things that you're not allowed to consume, such

484
00:32:06,119 --> 00:32:08,480
as like pork, alcohol, medicinal cannabis.

485
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 10: I don't think there's any set law on pork and foods.

486
00:32:14,359 --> 00:32:17,160
Why would we not eat pork? Paul says that every

487
00:32:17,319 --> 00:32:21,160
food is given by is cleansed by the word of

488
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:26,480
God in prayer. Right, So we're not Muslims. And then

489
00:32:27,519 --> 00:32:32,279
the other issues would be more of an individual situation

490
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:35,839
about whether you can have medical cannabis or whether that's

491
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,400
a right fit for you. I believe that it is

492
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,319
a medicinal plant, and I don't think there's anything inherently

493
00:32:42,359 --> 00:32:47,240
evil with it, and I'm sure that other substances as well, right,

494
00:32:47,839 --> 00:32:50,359
could be used in medicinal ways. That doesn't mean that

495
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,799
I'm saying that you should get you know, drunk, or

496
00:32:52,839 --> 00:32:55,000
should get messed up, or should lose your you know,

497
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,440
faculty of reasoning. So in my view, you know, it's

498
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,000
not really the substance itself that is the problem. It's

499
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:07,839
anything that causes you to lose your reasoning faculty such

500
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:11,000
that you can no longer function in a you know,

501
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:16,000
rational way that could then lead you to doing something worse. Right,

502
00:33:16,119 --> 00:33:21,599
So it's not like there's some blood alcohol level content

503
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,880
that once you get over this percentage, now it's a

504
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,920
mortal sin. That's like a ridiculous Roman Cavol gratitude. It's

505
00:33:29,079 --> 00:33:32,160
rather that it's not this problem in the substance it's

506
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:38,440
the problem in you, in a non judicious, wise manner,

507
00:33:38,759 --> 00:33:42,079
using the substance to put yourself or others in danger.

508
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,799
That's where it becomes a problem. That's why people who

509
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:49,119
you know engage in too much drinking and wreck can

510
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,279
be guilty of manslaughter, you know, in a drunk driving

511
00:33:52,319 --> 00:33:57,559
accident or whatever. So but everybody i think wants to

512
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,519
have this kind of like legalistic attitude of like, oh, no,

513
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,039
tobacco itself is wrong. Oh no, Well, all the people

514
00:34:04,079 --> 00:34:08,280
who argue that pretty much are I mean, they're totally inconsistent.

515
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,079
When you start arguing about something inherently being wrong or

516
00:34:11,119 --> 00:34:19,480
bad and not in other contexts being use profitable, it's

517
00:34:19,639 --> 00:34:23,440
missing the point. Right, all things are lawful, Paul says,

518
00:34:23,519 --> 00:34:26,760
but not all things are profitable. So it's a matter

519
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,639
of how and why and when it's being used. Right, So,

520
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:35,320
in some cases, one action can be virtuous in another

521
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,519
situation in the case is the same action can be

522
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:42,119
a crime. And that's why you have law courts that

523
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,199
have to determine and you don't just have everything in

524
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:49,039
a black or white scenario, because not everything is some

525
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,800
easy black and white scenario. It's just kind of like obvious,

526
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,960
common sense spirit led what's.

527
00:34:54,840 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 19: Up, hey, j can you hear me?

528
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:02,280
Speaker 4: Uh huh.

529
00:35:03,679 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 11: So I got a quick question about the relationship roles

530
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,000
between men and women in a marriage and kind of

531
00:35:11,199 --> 00:35:16,400
how would you explain that leadership dynamic and how should

532
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:20,000
a relationship function in that circumstance.

533
00:35:22,119 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 10: Well, I mean it's kind of obvious in the scriptures

534
00:35:26,119 --> 00:35:28,599
or the New Testament right that men are supposed to

535
00:35:28,639 --> 00:35:32,880
be the leader, men or the patriarch. Men have the authority.

536
00:35:33,519 --> 00:35:37,159
Women are supposed to submit to that authority. I mean,

537
00:35:37,159 --> 00:35:39,519
it's pretty much clear as day. That doesn't mean that

538
00:35:39,639 --> 00:35:42,039
a man has the authority or the ability to be

539
00:35:42,159 --> 00:35:46,039
a tyrant or to be manipulative and abusive. Body does

540
00:35:46,119 --> 00:35:49,679
have authority in the same way that in the church,

541
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,559
the priest has the authority. It's not the women's committee

542
00:35:52,599 --> 00:35:54,880
that runs the church, although many churches are run by

543
00:35:55,000 --> 00:36:02,760
the women committee, whatever that is. I mean, I mean,

544
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:04,320
it's just I mean, I'm not trying to be rude

545
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,920
or dismissive, but like, what what do you mean? Like

546
00:36:07,079 --> 00:36:10,599
it's an I'll say this, like I disagree with Tim

547
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,320
Gordon when he says that Proverbs thirty one is not

548
00:36:14,519 --> 00:36:17,960
about a pattern for women, that it's some sort of

549
00:36:18,159 --> 00:36:21,239
judaic What did he call it? He said, the Proverbs

550
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:22,920
thirty one is a judaic.

551
00:36:24,039 --> 00:36:24,320
Speaker 5: Queen.

552
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:31,159
Speaker 10: I'm trying to think how we put it. It's like

553
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,880
the pattern of life for a judaic queen. Why would

554
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,639
God include that in proverbs when that would apply to

555
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,559
basically no one else in history. I mean, it defeats

556
00:36:40,599 --> 00:36:44,000
the whole purpose of the Proverbs thirty one. So I

557
00:36:44,159 --> 00:36:46,920
do not think that it's bad or wrong for a

558
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,679
woman to have their side business, to have their side income,

559
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,599
to do that kind of stuff if it doesn't interfere

560
00:36:53,679 --> 00:36:57,320
with the first priority, which is to be a mother,

561
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,000
to be a wife, to be you know those things

562
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:04,360
that comes first. B att sales. I guess Jay's getting

563
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:08,239
a divorce. Yes, no, I'm not getting a divorce. I hope,

564
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:12,719
I hope you guys are joking. So he's making a

565
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:14,800
joke because Sam Shamun said that.

566
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 5: So so what, uh?

567
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 11: I guess what is the level at which a woman

568
00:37:21,599 --> 00:37:23,880
should say Hey, this isn't right and kind of stand

569
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,039
up for herself versus submitting to authority.

570
00:37:26,119 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 5: And how does that dynamic work?

571
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 10: I guess is kind of what It's just like with

572
00:37:29,679 --> 00:37:33,239
me and a priest. Right, So my priest is my authority,

573
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:36,119
but he's that doesn't give him the license to be

574
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:40,079
an abusive tyrant, right, so I submit to him within

575
00:37:40,199 --> 00:37:43,440
due reason. Likewise a wife submits to her husband within

576
00:37:43,519 --> 00:37:47,920
due reason. There's all there's always limitations on authority, and

577
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:52,119
you can't worship authority. And I would say that probably

578
00:37:52,199 --> 00:37:54,599
in some of the trad circles you even have this

579
00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,639
tendency to worship authority because if you think about the

580
00:37:58,679 --> 00:38:03,679
Roman Catholics view, right, Roman Catholics treat the papacy as

581
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:09,320
the ultimate authority that must be worshiped. Well, we don't

582
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,960
worship authority, we worship God. And there's a hierarchy of

583
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:17,000
with these authorities where you have, you know, you have

584
00:38:17,159 --> 00:38:20,280
spheres of authority and limitations on it, which means that

585
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:24,840
they can't go outside those boundaries or else they're violating

586
00:38:25,079 --> 00:38:26,559
the higher authority above them.

587
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 3: Right.

588
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,440
Speaker 10: So let me I've said this many times. So let's

589
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,639
say my priest comes and says, the bishop and the

590
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:36,079
church have decided that you must sell your properties and

591
00:38:36,159 --> 00:38:37,800
give them money to the church, and if you don't,

592
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:41,480
we will excommunicate you. That would be them going outside

593
00:38:41,519 --> 00:38:44,119
the balance of their limitations and their sphere of authority.

594
00:38:44,639 --> 00:38:47,480
Speaker 5: Right, churches that actually do that, by the way.

595
00:38:48,119 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 10: I'm sure there are there's thousands of cults and con

596
00:38:51,119 --> 00:38:54,119
men out there. So if a husband said to the

597
00:38:54,199 --> 00:38:59,320
wife something like we're going to join this Buddhist sect

598
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:01,880
and you're gonna do it because I tell you too,

599
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:05,599
because you're my wife, well, in that situation, the husband

600
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:09,719
is going above and beyond the legitimate authority above him,

601
00:39:10,079 --> 00:39:16,840
which is God, and commanding something that is against divine law. Right,

602
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,079
So the woman has a duty to rebel, just like

603
00:39:19,119 --> 00:39:22,559
the early Christians that had duty to not worship Caesar.

604
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:27,440
So when you understand limitations and spheres of authority, which

605
00:39:27,599 --> 00:39:30,719
I would argue that nowadays only the Orthodox Church has

606
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:38,199
actually preserved this idea. It's actually abused in the tradcat

607
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:41,639
world where you have Tim Gordon saying stuff like Proverbs

608
00:39:41,679 --> 00:39:44,760
thirty one doesn't apply today because it's about a Judaic

609
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,039
queen in her life. It's like that, why would that

610
00:39:47,119 --> 00:39:49,800
be in Proverbs? Has no relevance or use to anyone

611
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:54,000
out else in the history of the Church. When Proverbs

612
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,639
thirty one has been read by the church and even

613
00:39:57,679 --> 00:40:01,199
as Athanatius says, that's for to Cumans. Okay, well, why

614
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,800
would we be reading Catechuman literature in Proverbs thirty one,

615
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,880
which has no relevance to anybody except for five Jewish

616
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:12,960
queens in history. I mean, it's just this bizarre interpretation

617
00:40:13,199 --> 00:40:17,079
that tim gave to Proverbs thirty one because that doesn't

618
00:40:17,159 --> 00:40:22,199
fit with their idea, which again is based on Augustinians

619
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,679
or remember the Augustinian view the only purpose of sex

620
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,920
is pro creation. Augustine didn't even believe in the unitive

621
00:40:30,079 --> 00:40:34,159
aspect of it, which post Vatican Two popes have actually altered.

622
00:40:34,519 --> 00:40:37,400
They through the Theology of the Body, have rejected the

623
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:42,280
older Augustinian position and they say, well, there actually is

624
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,920
also a unitive aspect to marriage. It's not like, you know,

625
00:40:46,079 --> 00:40:49,039
they have this attitude like God or that like Satan

626
00:40:49,159 --> 00:40:53,000
is behind the pleasure principle in the sexual act. And

627
00:40:53,079 --> 00:40:56,800
that's why Augustine had a hard time explaining how marriage

628
00:40:56,840 --> 00:41:00,519
could be a sacrament when it includes necessarily some degree

629
00:41:00,599 --> 00:41:03,679
of sin. So every tradcat is in this weird kind

630
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:09,039
of contradictory position where on the one hand, they want

631
00:41:09,079 --> 00:41:12,559
to have these strict legal positions based on it's not

632
00:41:12,679 --> 00:41:16,039
even based on like divine revelation and tradition, it's actually

633
00:41:16,079 --> 00:41:20,840
based on arist Atilian philosophy of purpose. According to the

634
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:25,280
Ristitilian theology of purpose or philosophy of purpose, your sexual

635
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:27,760
organs only have one purpose, which is to produce offspring.

636
00:41:28,199 --> 00:41:31,360
So the only the primary purpose of marriage has to

637
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,480
be the production of offspring, and anything else is either

638
00:41:34,599 --> 00:41:38,320
tertiary or denied. Now post John pulled the second and

639
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:40,199
the theology of the body, the Roman calicies now admit,

640
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:44,639
well there's other purposes too, right, units of purpose, pleasure, purpose, right,

641
00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:48,000
all of the things are there now, but they didn't

642
00:41:48,119 --> 00:41:50,199
used to be. So the point of all that is

643
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,159
just to say that there's there's not going to be

644
00:41:53,199 --> 00:41:55,599
an easy, one size fits all answer to something that's

645
00:41:55,679 --> 00:41:58,960
very complex that deals with life in the modern world.

646
00:41:59,559 --> 00:42:03,960
And just because women are raised in a modern feminist society,

647
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,880
it's not their fault that they were told to go

648
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:08,519
to college and to do all this stuff. So it's

649
00:42:08,559 --> 00:42:11,199
not worth berating and sort of beating them down when

650
00:42:11,559 --> 00:42:14,000
that's what they were raised with and that's what they

651
00:42:14,039 --> 00:42:16,320
were taught, just like I was raised with and taught

652
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:17,840
that I needed to go to college and get all

653
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,000
these degrees. And I mean, I wasted all this money

654
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,239
that I wish i'd put into Bickle. I didn't want

655
00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:23,480
to go to college. Initially I thought it was a

656
00:42:23,519 --> 00:42:27,039
big scam and it was a joke. But I had

657
00:42:27,079 --> 00:42:29,599
a lot of people prompting me and advising me to

658
00:42:29,679 --> 00:42:31,519
go to college. And I don't blame them, because that's

659
00:42:31,599 --> 00:42:35,119
just like the attitude that boomers had. So likewise, most

660
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:37,559
girls have been raised with the idea that they're supposed

661
00:42:37,559 --> 00:42:39,360
to go to college and do all the slave queen stuff,

662
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,360
even if it's not the best scenario overall for their life.

663
00:42:43,559 --> 00:42:45,920
And as they get older, when they're PhDs and when

664
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,960
they're CEOs, and they realized that men don't care about that.

665
00:42:49,079 --> 00:42:51,199
Men don't care that you got a PhD and you're

666
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:56,639
a CEO. So Jay just kind of follow up on

667
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:58,400
what you said with you, so hold on, hold on,

668
00:42:58,519 --> 00:43:03,000
and to balance that out. That's the nuanced view about women.

669
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,320
And then at the same time, though you have in

670
00:43:07,039 --> 00:43:13,360
the church all these people who are wissas and emotionally led,

671
00:43:13,639 --> 00:43:16,239
and they want women to teach, they want women to

672
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,280
be priests, they want women to do everything that men

673
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,679
do they want women running the church through their stupid

674
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:25,360
parish committees or whatever. All that stuff is kuckianity, and

675
00:43:25,639 --> 00:43:28,840
it even exists in the Orthodox world unfortunately, because it's everywhere.

676
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,119
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's hilarious.

677
00:43:33,519 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 11: But so I guess my follow up to that would be,

678
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:40,360
as a leader in a relationship, it's important for you

679
00:43:40,519 --> 00:43:43,920
to know what God deems right and wrong. So it's

680
00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:47,239
your responsibility to also know as well right as far

681
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,840
as because sometimes women will just say, oh, I feel

682
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:52,599
like you're being really mean, or I feel like.

683
00:43:52,639 --> 00:43:54,039
Speaker 5: You're being this way or that way.

684
00:43:54,199 --> 00:43:58,519
Speaker 11: And that's not necessarily like abusing authority for a woman

685
00:43:58,559 --> 00:44:02,119
to just simply feel like like you're being harsh, right, So.

686
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,639
Speaker 5: I guess how do you kind of define that and

687
00:44:05,079 --> 00:44:05,920
how does that dynamic?

688
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:10,280
Speaker 10: I mean, there's such a vague question, like no, of course,

689
00:44:10,519 --> 00:44:13,280
a woman feeling like you were mean doesn't mean that

690
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,920
you did anything wrong. So I just I don't understand

691
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:21,039
what you're wanting me to answer about, Like.

692
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,599
Speaker 11: Well, it's because in the Bible it says don't be harsh,

693
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:29,320
So I guess, how how does the Orthodox Church define harshness?

694
00:44:29,639 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 10: There's not going to be like scientific definitions of scholastical

695
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:36,480
definition for every single term when when it's about applying.

696
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:40,880
So it's like, uh, you know. Father Deacon made this

697
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:44,400
point a few months ago about one of Andrew's debates

698
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,760
on whatever, and they were trying to trap Andrew, and

699
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:53,280
they said something like, could what if the human race

700
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,760
was reduced in number in an apocalypse? And I'm trying

701
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:58,800
to I don't remember exactly, but it's something like, could

702
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:02,760
a could polygamy be be vindicated in a situation where

703
00:45:05,119 --> 00:45:08,079
the human races aduced in numbers or something something like that,

704
00:45:08,639 --> 00:45:11,559
And I don't remember how Andrew answered it. But the

705
00:45:11,639 --> 00:45:15,360
point of virtue ethics that even Aristotle points out is

706
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:19,559
that there's not a black and white, like set response

707
00:45:19,679 --> 00:45:22,880
or answer to every single situation. That's why the scriptures

708
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:27,000
lay out what are called case laws or patterns of

709
00:45:27,199 --> 00:45:31,280
law based on a case. And because life is complex

710
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:34,119
and complicated, there's not an easy, simple answer to every

711
00:45:34,159 --> 00:45:36,679
single problem. But a lot of Spergs, I'm not talking

712
00:45:36,679 --> 00:45:40,480
about you, but a lot of simple minded young people

713
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:43,280
they think that the Bible is a rule book where

714
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:45,000
I can go and find and they do the same

715
00:45:45,039 --> 00:45:49,079
thing with canon law. I scroll through and I compile

716
00:45:49,199 --> 00:45:52,679
together in a bunch of quote minds, all the answers

717
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:55,559
that are black and white for every possible difficulty or

718
00:45:55,599 --> 00:45:59,599
scenario in life, right, and then they assume that you

719
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:03,360
just have an easy answer. That's not how law works.

720
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:05,400
It's not how it works in the secular world. It's

721
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:07,840
not how it works in biblical law. There's no black

722
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:10,440
and white easy answers. There's not going to be the

723
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:14,440
you know, the saint who defines dogmatically for you what

724
00:46:14,639 --> 00:46:17,320
counts as being harsh to your wife. It's it's a

725
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:21,920
lived experience. The whole point of what FDA's answer was

726
00:46:22,039 --> 00:46:25,159
to the dilemma that they posed to Andrew on whatever

727
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:28,880
like a year ago, was that it's not a black

728
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,920
and white there's not an actual easy, black white answer

729
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:36,280
to that, because in some situations, the only answer to

730
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:42,199
a moral dilemma is the wisdom that a virtuous man

731
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,800
can apply to the situation you see, and that's what

732
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:48,920
you see. For example, with Solomon, when Solomon is presented

733
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,960
with the two prostitutes fighting over the baby, does Solomon

734
00:46:53,079 --> 00:46:55,280
have a case law that tells him the black and

735
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:57,239
white answer. Here's what you do when you have two

736
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:00,320
prostitutes finding over a baby. Oh here's the mosaic. That's

737
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:03,039
the Talmudic idea that you can have like an actual

738
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:06,440
answer to every single possible problem.

739
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 5: Right.

740
00:47:07,079 --> 00:47:10,519
Speaker 10: It just it's silly. So you need wise men with

741
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:14,599
discernment that like Solomon was a wise man who applied

742
00:47:14,679 --> 00:47:17,920
the principles of the law to the scenario to say,

743
00:47:18,559 --> 00:47:23,840
we will chop the creature in half, and half goes

744
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:26,159
to one hoe and the half goes to the other, hope.

745
00:47:27,519 --> 00:47:31,559
And that was the means by which Solomon was able

746
00:47:31,679 --> 00:47:34,960
to demonstrate who the real mom was, because the real

747
00:47:35,079 --> 00:47:37,239
mom would be willing to give up her child and

748
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:40,159
to lose it. See. So there's no case law that

749
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:45,760
tells you how to handle chopping up horror babes in disputes,

750
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:46,159
you see.

751
00:47:47,119 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, no, I appreciate it.

752
00:47:49,079 --> 00:47:49,239
Speaker 1: Jay.

753
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:50,760
Speaker 11: I yield my questions for now.

754
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 10: Thanks so much for your time, vain. Let's make the questions.

755
00:48:00,079 --> 00:48:08,719
So let's keep moving here, Labor Republican ten dollars, Happy

756
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:12,400
good Friday. Would you debate a Marxist? I mean, the

757
00:48:12,519 --> 00:48:15,679
only one who ever tried was Hawes, and he had

758
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:20,239
a meltdown and went crazy. I saw a video where

759
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:23,000
you're devised against it. I mean, because Marxists don't believe

760
00:48:23,159 --> 00:48:27,239
really in they don't believe that debate is geared towards

761
00:48:27,559 --> 00:48:31,079
arriving at truth. Marxists believed that debate is a way

762
00:48:31,119 --> 00:48:37,119
to further revolution. So have you discussed tag and relation

763
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:41,920
to Kant? Probably one hundred times. L's w welcome, crisp

764
00:48:42,039 --> 00:48:46,920
g Welcome became members Ryan. Ryan's channel is Orthodox Dogmatics

765
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:47,800
by Palmezansky.

766
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:48,039
Speaker 5: Good.

767
00:48:48,119 --> 00:48:55,280
Speaker 10: Yes, it's a pretty standard Catechisist book. What's up, vain, vain?

768
00:48:55,320 --> 00:49:02,719
Are you there? What's up? All right? We can't hear you, man, Lucy,

769
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:03,199
what's up?

770
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:10,599
Speaker 5: Hello?

771
00:49:11,159 --> 00:49:11,320
Speaker 10: Hey?

772
00:49:12,679 --> 00:49:12,800
Speaker 13: Hi?

773
00:49:13,079 --> 00:49:15,760
Speaker 6: Uh So I have a question from a friend here.

774
00:49:16,039 --> 00:49:20,400
Oh he's Catholic. Is He essentially believes that the filly

775
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:24,920
okay is is the Orthodox understanding of the Trinity. And

776
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:29,440
he quotes specifically the Council of Florence and it says, quote,

777
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:31,760
we declare that when the Greeks say the Holy Spirit

778
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:34,960
proceeds from the Father through the Son, this is the same.

779
00:49:35,159 --> 00:49:37,800
Speaker 10: Yeah. So go read the Tomos against John Becos, which

780
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,239
is a rejection of that position. So no, that's not

781
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:42,599
the Orthodox, and there's no Orthodox person in the world

782
00:49:43,199 --> 00:49:45,519
that says that we'll double agree that that is our position.

783
00:49:45,639 --> 00:49:47,920
The Tomos against John Becos. You can find it online

784
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:51,760
and addresses that specifically. I can't read your name.

785
00:49:53,159 --> 00:49:53,559
Speaker 8: What's up.

786
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:05,199
Speaker 10: I'm you Arabic guy, I'm you?

787
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 5: Oh, yes, yes, I really liked your input.

788
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:15,760
Speaker 23: Like in my religion, Yes, a higher key is conditional, you.

789
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:18,320
Speaker 16: Know, like I think there is a conditions for a

790
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:20,719
man to be the head of household.

791
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:23,360
Speaker 5: Sometimes a man can lose I don't know if you

792
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:23,880
agree with me.

793
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:26,280
Speaker 16: I think we agree on that a man can lose

794
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:28,800
his position as the head and the king of the

795
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:32,519
house if he's like you know, if he's married to

796
00:50:32,559 --> 00:50:36,119
a woman but he's a drug addict, alcoholic.

797
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:38,519
Speaker 10: Oh yeah, that's actually an Orthodox can of law that, yeah,

798
00:50:38,559 --> 00:50:44,119
you can lose that position. It's not a yes, it's

799
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:49,199
not like a lot of husbands are not indefectible, right yeah.

800
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:49,519
Speaker 5: Yeah.

801
00:50:49,639 --> 00:50:52,039
Speaker 16: So for me, like I have to deserve to be

802
00:50:52,199 --> 00:50:54,519
the head of household, but if I lose it, that

803
00:50:54,639 --> 00:50:57,280
doesn't mean if your wife can make more money than you,

804
00:50:57,639 --> 00:50:57,920
lose it.

805
00:50:58,039 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 5: No, you still I still?

806
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 14: I mean to me to be honest, I never even

807
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:03,280
if my.

808
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:05,760
Speaker 5: Woman got for a bit, she makes more money than me.

809
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:09,039
I will never make it pay the bills. You know,

810
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:12,239
you lose some of that high because a man should

811
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,159
take care of his family and he should be the

812
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:16,159
one they look up to.

813
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:19,760
Speaker 16: But they then a man can lose that position. And

814
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,800
and also you said any authority that's not a worship

815
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:24,119
authority's conditional.

816
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 10: Yes, exactly, all of its correct, absolutely great points. All

817
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:33,360
all authority is conditional. And it's really the sort of

818
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:40,159
papers mindset where you can infallibly. You know, you're an

819
00:51:40,199 --> 00:51:46,800
indefectible husband. Well, if you become a you know, drug addict, deadbeat,

820
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:54,719
you know, beating up people, abusing the youth, I mean

821
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:59,400
you you still have the role, but the wife is

822
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:02,079
no longer been on to you. She can remove herself

823
00:52:02,079 --> 00:52:04,119
from that situation by other or even Roman Catholics believe

824
00:52:04,159 --> 00:52:07,480
that even Romancalolks believe that they can be separated. It's

825
00:52:07,559 --> 00:52:09,760
just the Romancalous stay that the woman can't remarry it, right,

826
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:12,719
because they have this extreme lealistic attitude, which they didn't

827
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:15,000
even used to have in the first seven hundred years

828
00:52:15,039 --> 00:52:24,239
of the church. So what's up man based By the way,

829
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:26,840
here's Proverbs thirty one that talks about what a virtuous

830
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:31,119
wife is and you'll notice these are the words of

831
00:52:31,199 --> 00:52:35,079
King le Mule. But that doesn't mean that this only

832
00:52:35,159 --> 00:52:38,199
applies to judaic wives. That's just so stupid. I mean,

833
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:42,360
I loved Tim. I hope Tim, you know, does to

834
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:44,519
take this the wrong way. But the idea that I

835
00:52:44,559 --> 00:52:46,519
don't have to listen to Proverbs thirty one because it's

836
00:52:46,559 --> 00:52:51,320
for judaic queens, so an entire chapter in the Bible

837
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:53,559
that has no relevance to anyone else in history except

838
00:52:53,599 --> 00:52:56,559
for like five people. I mean, that's just silly. And

839
00:52:56,760 --> 00:53:00,920
the woman in Proverbs thirty one is able to put

840
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:08,280
her children first, right, as well as engaging in having

841
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:11,360
her own side business. She got a side household dog.

842
00:53:11,639 --> 00:53:15,559
Ain't nothing wrong with that. However, it is true that

843
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:18,719
this woman also has quite a bit of wealth and

844
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:22,960
she has servants, right, So not every woman has to

845
00:53:23,039 --> 00:53:26,599
have a business, right everybody sees everything in such like

846
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:30,719
low iq simplistic either ors. This is so annoying, like,

847
00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:34,920
especially in the delusional religious world where we have, as

848
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:37,119
I'm beginning to see more and more over the years,

849
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:44,480
so many just insane, delusional people with personality disorders who

850
00:53:44,559 --> 00:53:49,360
are on meds and people that nobody in the in

851
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:51,639
their right mind would ever listen to were it not

852
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:54,639
just for Internet. Right, the only reason they have an

853
00:53:54,639 --> 00:53:58,800
audience is Internet. They have no episcopal oversight, no authority

854
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:01,519
over them. They're not held in checked or held accountable

855
00:54:01,519 --> 00:54:04,719
to anyone else but themselves. And it's just it's just

856
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:11,719
insane level of delusion. Right. But I don't see anything

857
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:14,480
about Proverbs thirty one that would somehow make it irrelevant

858
00:54:14,559 --> 00:54:23,320
to today because it's only for ancient Judaic queen lifestyles, right,

859
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:26,159
lifestyles of the ancient Judaic queens or something if it's

860
00:54:26,159 --> 00:54:33,199
a reality show. I just I don't buy that. Bays,

861
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:34,559
did you want to speak? And then we'll go to

862
00:54:34,679 --> 00:54:35,199
father Deacon?

863
00:54:37,519 --> 00:54:37,719
Speaker 4: Yeah?

864
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:38,159
Speaker 5: What's up?

865
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:38,760
Speaker 20: You hear me?

866
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:39,079
Speaker 5: Okay?

867
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:44,239
Speaker 19: Uh yeah, so uh it's actually funny. It seems like

868
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:48,159
we've had very similar experiences in life where you're moved

869
00:54:48,159 --> 00:54:49,000
from Protestantism.

870
00:54:49,079 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 5: Yeah. I had that college influence on me as well.

871
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:53,760
I just I'm a Protestant.

872
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:57,360
Speaker 19: I guess I've always identified Protestant, but I'm kinda with

873
00:54:57,519 --> 00:55:00,800
everybody else with this whole wave of consider orthodoxy.

874
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:03,480
Speaker 5: And I just had a couple of.

875
00:55:03,559 --> 00:55:09,199
Speaker 24: Questions as I look around, so like as a Protestant

876
00:55:09,519 --> 00:55:10,719
all my life, you know you're.

877
00:55:10,639 --> 00:55:13,880
Speaker 5: Gonna there's so much ambiguity with like.

878
00:55:14,039 --> 00:55:17,719
Speaker 19: Which churches will teach what is actually the truth and

879
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:21,320
stuff like that, Like you know, New Bible Baptist over

880
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:25,320
here teaches this doctrine that is completely different from you know,

881
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:29,159
First Baptist Church over here, but they claim to be

882
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:30,519
the same denomination and stuff.

883
00:55:30,559 --> 00:55:32,320
Speaker 10: Yeah, I'm not trying to let's get get to the

884
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:34,679
question because we've got twenty five people who want to

885
00:55:34,679 --> 00:55:36,159
get in here. So get to the question.

886
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 19: Yep, got to Yeah, So is there any thing I

887
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:42,400
should be looking out for when I'm looking for an

888
00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:44,960
Orthodox church as far as like which.

889
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:45,519
Speaker 24: Ones are going to be?

890
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,559
Speaker 19: Like is it a uniform doctrine that I just look

891
00:55:49,639 --> 00:55:51,119
for the nearest Orthodox church?

892
00:55:51,199 --> 00:55:51,400
Speaker 5: Yeah?

893
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:53,400
Speaker 10: Look, just check all the ones out and find the

894
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:57,840
one that's the best fit for you near you otherwise. Yeah,

895
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:00,880
I mean if they start talking about you know, Mechalolic saints,

896
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:04,400
so they start talking about skittles stuff, then you know

897
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:06,039
you got a bad one. Father digging, does you want

898
00:56:06,039 --> 00:56:06,559
to add anything?

899
00:56:08,199 --> 00:56:10,039
Speaker 5: No, I'm just calling somebody hasn't question.

900
00:56:10,119 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 10: Could I would you speak briefly perhaps to that issue

901
00:56:14,119 --> 00:56:18,239
of what you were getting at with. Sometimes what's needed

902
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:21,199
is the virtuous man in virtue ethics versus as sort

903
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:24,760
of like where is the specific canon law that tells

904
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:25,960
me what to do in this case?

905
00:56:27,559 --> 00:56:31,639
Speaker 13: Yeah, so, I mean it's just kind of indictive, indicative

906
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:34,639
of a kind of a modern mindset. I noticed that

907
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:40,519
people tend to approach ethical questions either in kind of

908
00:56:40,559 --> 00:56:46,519
a utilitarian way or the opposite, like a contium way,

909
00:56:46,639 --> 00:56:49,920
that there's just well, there's just these moral imperatives and

910
00:56:50,039 --> 00:56:55,800
you just follow them. But in antiquity, you know, going

911
00:56:55,880 --> 00:57:00,960
back to Aristotle was a virtue ethics and so you know,

912
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:04,440
cases are difficult. Now, that's not to say.

913
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:06,559
Speaker 5: One thing that came up recently that I.

914
00:57:06,599 --> 00:57:12,280
Speaker 13: Was talking to people about is the distinction between objectivity

915
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:14,599
and absolutism.

916
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 5: So those are two different categories. So objective objectivity and.

917
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:22,280
Speaker 13: Ethics has to do with the status of a moral

918
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:26,519
principle or morality, which we would say is objective. It's

919
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:29,079
you know, it's not dependent on a group of people

920
00:57:29,519 --> 00:57:37,400
or an individual human being. Absolute has to do with

921
00:57:37,599 --> 00:57:41,920
the stringency how that's applied everywhere at all times. And

922
00:57:42,039 --> 00:57:48,960
the third category add to is something called ethical monism.

923
00:57:50,119 --> 00:57:53,360
A lot of these people approach that. So ethical monism

924
00:57:53,599 --> 00:57:59,159
nothing to do with the issue of relativity, like whether

925
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:03,800
ethics is reallyative. That has to do with is applying

926
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:07,840
moral principles only applied in one way.

927
00:58:09,199 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 5: And at all times. So orthodox would be.

928
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:16,280
Speaker 13: What's called ethical plural pluraliss and so it would say

929
00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:20,599
is that, yeah, there are objective moral principles, how that's

930
00:58:20,639 --> 00:58:24,519
applied and how that looks in different situations, cultures and

931
00:58:24,639 --> 00:58:31,519
times will differ. For example, the love of your parents

932
00:58:31,639 --> 00:58:37,360
or something like that, or a neighbor that's objective and

933
00:58:37,519 --> 00:58:40,840
one will appeal to that, but how it gets out

934
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:43,480
in the details, and a particular culture.

935
00:58:45,239 --> 00:58:48,960
Speaker 5: Might look different. For example, you know, in terms you

936
00:58:49,039 --> 00:58:50,840
might offer.

937
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:55,440
Speaker 13: A dowry of a cow too, you know, in terms

938
00:58:55,559 --> 00:58:58,920
of respecting your elders or something in marriage or something.

939
00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:03,000
Obviously we don't do that, but the objective principle is

940
00:59:04,519 --> 00:59:06,360
you know, respective ones, elders.

941
00:59:06,079 --> 00:59:06,800
Speaker 5: Or something like that.

942
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:13,599
Speaker 13: So anyways, on these kind of nuances and difficulties, there

943
00:59:13,679 --> 00:59:17,199
is no kind of formula. It's applied to the same degree.

944
00:59:17,199 --> 00:59:20,079
It's the same way, and so it takes the wise

945
00:59:20,159 --> 00:59:20,960
man who's and.

946
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:23,320
Speaker 10: This is why Spurgs can't get this and they have

947
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:24,079
a hard time with it.

948
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:28,480
Speaker 5: Yes, and I love it too, because.

949
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 13: The scripture says God hides the wisdom from the wise,

950
00:59:38,719 --> 00:59:41,400
that to get the answer is to become like God.

951
00:59:42,599 --> 00:59:44,800
It's not to get the formula, and that we just

952
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:50,679
mechanically work through. And so it's actually great that the Spurgs.

953
00:59:51,719 --> 00:59:55,079
It annoys the Spurgs. It's like, yeah, it's not available

954
00:59:55,119 --> 00:59:56,719
to you, Like, that's.

955
00:59:56,639 --> 00:59:59,800
Speaker 5: Not how the world works, and that's not how faith

956
00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:01,360
w works in the.

957
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:05,599
Speaker 10: Church right well, to placate the piety signalers, We've got

958
01:00:05,679 --> 01:00:07,679
to hurry because I have to go to church. I

959
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:11,960
know that some people love to teut and do performances

960
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:15,039
of their prayers and talk about church, but I'm trying

961
01:00:15,079 --> 01:00:17,199
to get out of here before four fifteen. I'm not

962
01:00:17,239 --> 01:00:20,159
talking to you, father Deacon. I'm talking to the people

963
01:00:20,199 --> 01:00:22,280
who are fussing about why I would do a stream

964
01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:24,280
on Good Friday. Well, guess what, I'm going to church.

965
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:26,800
So does that satisfy all you piety signalers? Do you

966
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:27,960
want me to do? You want me to take the

967
01:00:28,039 --> 01:00:30,239
live stream into the church with me? Would that make

968
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:32,599
you happy? Why don't you all go to church and

969
01:00:32,639 --> 01:00:36,239
stop fussing. H Brosey, what's up, man, Let's let's let's guys,

970
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:38,639
let's make it quick. Let's move through the questions so

971
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:41,920
that I can get to there's twenty over twenty people

972
01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:43,119
in line. What's up?

973
01:00:44,039 --> 01:00:46,519
Speaker 18: Thanks you good, Jake? Hey, Yeah, I didn't know. I

974
01:00:46,559 --> 01:00:48,280
didn't have a question. I just wanted to add something

975
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:53,159
because it applies to like another something about the feminism

976
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:55,840
or specifically like the I guess the marriage question that

977
01:00:55,920 --> 01:00:57,760
guy a couple of minutes ago just asked, because it

978
01:00:58,039 --> 01:01:00,679
kind of ties into the societal problem where having with

979
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:03,199
the like I guess it kind of is more of

980
01:01:03,239 --> 01:01:06,320
an IQ thing because it gets back to false dielectic.

981
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:09,119
Speaker 10: So one thing that the feminists, and they've.

982
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:13,960
Speaker 18: Been extremely clearly, extremely successful with this is is is

983
01:01:14,039 --> 01:01:17,280
like pinning men down with these extreme false dielectics. Yes,

984
01:01:17,800 --> 01:01:20,159
it's either there, there is there is no, there is

985
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:23,320
no in between. There is no a man is able

986
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:24,480
to do this in a marriage woman.

987
01:01:24,519 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 4: No, no, no.

988
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:27,199
Speaker 18: If you if you want any sort of authority over

989
01:01:27,199 --> 01:01:30,440
a woman, that's just complete control. Absolutely, there is no submission.

990
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:32,480
The word submission is like vendom to these damn people.

991
01:01:33,519 --> 01:01:36,800
And so yeah, you have to allow her to choose

992
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:38,639
whatever the hell it is she wants to do within

993
01:01:38,679 --> 01:01:40,639
the marriage for it to be healthy. But if you

994
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:43,039
don't do X, Y and Z, we obviously all the

995
01:01:43,280 --> 01:01:46,840
more important things, provide protect care for y'all, YadA, y'all,

996
01:01:47,159 --> 01:01:48,920
then we'll You know, you're kind of a piece of

997
01:01:49,079 --> 01:01:49,840
a piece of shit, man.

998
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:53,320
Speaker 10: So yeah, there's definitely a double center going on. Absolutely,

999
01:01:53,480 --> 01:01:56,920
and I'm absolutely one of center posed to feminism. But

1000
01:01:56,960 --> 01:01:59,760
I think what's happened is you're gonna get this. I

1001
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:01,320
think a lot of this red pill is going to

1002
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:05,360
open the way to Islam, and I think Muslim backers

1003
01:02:06,320 --> 01:02:08,159
are pushing a lot of the stuff to open the

1004
01:02:08,239 --> 01:02:12,239
door to people in the West transitioning from Look, the

1005
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:15,519
churches are all basically feminized, which is accurate in a

1006
01:02:15,679 --> 01:02:20,800
large portion of America, and that doesn't seem to be convincing,

1007
01:02:21,039 --> 01:02:24,559
and so you can all these red pill people the

1008
01:02:24,639 --> 01:02:27,280
taps come out talking about it, then suddenly they're Muslims.

1009
01:02:27,719 --> 01:02:31,480
I think it's going to be this doorway into Islam. Now,

1010
01:02:31,559 --> 01:02:33,719
to the guy in the chat who's talking smack about

1011
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:39,920
autistic people, Dan, You're welcome to call in because I

1012
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:41,880
don't know if you are aware of this. Father Deacon

1013
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:49,679
himself has conferences geared towards helping young theology nerds not

1014
01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:52,480
be that way. So you're bitching about the very thing

1015
01:02:52,719 --> 01:02:56,159
that we address all the time on my channel. The

1016
01:02:56,280 --> 01:03:01,960
discord has since its inception, had energy in there directing

1017
01:03:02,079 --> 01:03:06,280
people to perishes. It's a complete lie that people say

1018
01:03:06,599 --> 01:03:10,599
that all the Orthobros, it's a totally online movement. Nobody

1019
01:03:10,639 --> 01:03:13,119
actually goes to church. I go and meet these people

1020
01:03:13,199 --> 01:03:15,199
at the churches. It's just not true. It's a lie,

1021
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:19,400
and it's a lie because we don't know. Anybody can

1022
01:03:19,480 --> 01:03:23,519
create Twitter profiles, anybody can say anything they want on

1023
01:03:23,559 --> 01:03:26,360
the Internet. And then the a bunch of liars and

1024
01:03:26,719 --> 01:03:30,079
repeat the lies that, oh Orthobros, they don't even go

1025
01:03:30,199 --> 01:03:32,440
to church. I heard diar those that you who go

1026
01:03:32,559 --> 01:03:36,000
to church, even though I've had my priest on many times.

1027
01:03:36,599 --> 01:03:39,760
It's it's ridiculous. Father Deacon just came down here to

1028
01:03:39,920 --> 01:03:42,320
my church and we did a conference. We did an

1029
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:44,760
icon conference at the parish, which is made up and

1030
01:03:44,800 --> 01:03:50,599
doesn't exist. Right, fake conference, fake church, fake Ortho bros. Right,

1031
01:03:53,159 --> 01:03:56,199
it's all ridiculous, Lord Sidcup, Let's make it quick. What's up?

1032
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:04,239
Speaker 5: Hello?

1033
01:04:06,239 --> 01:04:09,960
Speaker 14: What would your advice father diacken and generrapy to someone

1034
01:04:10,039 --> 01:04:12,760
who struggles with purpose and meeting in life?

1035
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:19,559
Speaker 10: I mean, go to church. How's up? Go to the

1036
01:04:19,679 --> 01:04:27,559
Orthodox Church? Jordan? What's up, hija?

1037
01:04:27,639 --> 01:04:30,239
Speaker 5: Can you hear me? Awesome? Let me be quick.

1038
01:04:31,039 --> 01:04:34,280
Speaker 14: So I'm catea Cuman getting adaptized on tomorrow. But I

1039
01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:37,519
came across there's some Orthodox and he was this Antiochan guy.

1040
01:04:37,719 --> 01:04:38,760
Speaker 5: I think it's antioch Is.

1041
01:04:38,760 --> 01:04:40,679
Speaker 14: I love him, but he was pointing me to awards

1042
01:04:40,719 --> 01:04:45,960
that there are some priests and and such who teach

1043
01:04:46,079 --> 01:04:47,920
some things that sound or that aren't.

1044
01:04:48,159 --> 01:04:49,519
Speaker 5: Like a P S A P know.

1045
01:04:49,639 --> 01:04:53,039
Speaker 14: SOI between teman like Father decided to treat in one

1046
01:04:53,119 --> 01:04:57,719
of his catechysical cate of Cuman classes on the Creed

1047
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:00,679
and on the part with on Jesus God.

1048
01:05:01,440 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 5: And then Daniel saysific.

1049
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:06,239
Speaker 14: In the Law of God speaks about like Christ taking

1050
01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:09,840
on like the like, not just suffering, but taking on

1051
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:12,400
something spiritual into something. So my question to you is

1052
01:05:13,559 --> 01:05:17,159
is there some sort of like middle ground between PSA

1053
01:05:17,480 --> 01:05:20,760
and or like just the orthodoposition.

1054
01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:24,400
Speaker 10: Like say, so again, let's be clear here penal substitutionary

1055
01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:30,800
atonement is a Protestant Classical Reformation doctrine. Language that's used

1056
01:05:30,840 --> 01:05:34,960
by an Orthodox priest or Church Fathers that talks about

1057
01:05:35,079 --> 01:05:39,039
the penal aspect or a substitution aspect does not equate

1058
01:05:39,280 --> 01:05:43,800
to the Protestant doctrine of penal substitutionary atonement. And everyone

1059
01:05:44,159 --> 01:05:48,440
is getting hung up on language and word concept fallacies

1060
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:53,159
and reading Protestant baggage into the terminology, and it's entirely

1061
01:05:53,239 --> 01:05:56,480
possible that an Orthodox priest can do that as well.

1062
01:05:56,760 --> 01:05:59,719
We live in a culture where you've got people converting

1063
01:05:59,719 --> 01:06:03,480
out of Protestism into Orthodoxy and they may still accidentally

1064
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:05,679
have some of that baggage. I don't know, because I

1065
01:06:05,760 --> 01:06:10,079
have not seen the catechetical talks in question. But it

1066
01:06:10,159 --> 01:06:13,280
doesn't matter because we already know that there is no

1067
01:06:13,519 --> 01:06:18,079
possibility in Orthodox theology for there to be a commonality

1068
01:06:18,199 --> 01:06:23,119
of the penal substitutionary imputational doctrine. That is not possible,

1069
01:06:23,239 --> 01:06:26,599
That doesn't exist in the Church Fathers at all. You

1070
01:06:26,679 --> 01:06:30,119
can find language that's legal, you can find language about

1071
01:06:30,159 --> 01:06:33,280
substitution that does not equate to the second person of

1072
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:37,239
the Godhead being damned. That's not possible, So that should

1073
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:40,400
make it simple for everybody, and go listen to all

1074
01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:44,079
the talks and lectures that I've done on PSA, Jack,

1075
01:06:44,159 --> 01:06:57,960
what's up? Jack?

1076
01:06:58,039 --> 01:06:58,360
Speaker 5: What's up?

1077
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:04,360
Speaker 10: You gotta have your mic on if you want to

1078
01:07:05,679 --> 01:07:18,719
chat Seguido. We got a super chat from Tojo Hogg.

1079
01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:21,440
What do you think about old calendars? I mean rokor

1080
01:07:21,599 --> 01:07:25,159
is old calendar? So do you mean schismatics? Avoid all schismatics?

1081
01:07:25,519 --> 01:07:29,000
Odd Harvey three dollars. Additionally, my sister said she consulted

1082
01:07:29,519 --> 01:07:32,960
with her reachers. Reachers, what does that mean? We're talking

1083
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:37,360
about Mormons. They conclude that when Paul said women should

1084
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:39,960
not lead, that was only for that time. I mean,

1085
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:41,599
who cares what some Protestant says?

1086
01:07:45,079 --> 01:07:46,360
Speaker 18: Hi, J did you hear me?

1087
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:46,800
Speaker 5: The mic?

1088
01:07:47,039 --> 01:07:52,880
Speaker 23: YEP, can't take take us so far as to only

1089
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:57,559
affirm the Christian Trinity or all all the way to Orthodoxy.

1090
01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:00,159
Speaker 10: There's no such thing as a Christian trinity. That not

1091
01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:01,920
the Orthodox Trinity. That's the only one.

1092
01:08:03,599 --> 01:08:06,880
Speaker 23: I just converted so from Protestantism, and a lot of

1093
01:08:07,000 --> 01:08:08,679
friends keep asking me.

1094
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:13,440
Speaker 10: Yeah, so the Trinity is not a doctrine that's shared

1095
01:08:14,039 --> 01:08:19,920
by Roman Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox and everyone else. There's a

1096
01:08:20,079 --> 01:08:22,760
term that they believe called trinity, and there's some things

1097
01:08:22,800 --> 01:08:25,159
that line up, But you don't have the trinity without

1098
01:08:25,159 --> 01:08:28,239
the energies. There is no doctrine of the Trinity without

1099
01:08:28,239 --> 01:08:31,119
the energies. And if you understand Orthodox trinity and theology,

1100
01:08:31,279 --> 01:08:33,119
you know why that's the case. There's no other way

1101
01:08:33,159 --> 01:08:36,279
to know the Trinity or experience and live in the

1102
01:08:36,359 --> 01:08:39,279
life of the Trinity without the divine energies. So no,

1103
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:43,159
there is no Now, they might be inconsistent and have

1104
01:08:43,720 --> 01:08:48,640
partial truth, right, a Protestant could have partial truth about Yeah,

1105
01:08:48,640 --> 01:08:51,239
I believe in three persons, one essence, so that's the Trinity.

1106
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:54,520
But that's not the Trinity. There's more to the Trinity

1107
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:59,319
than that. There is only the Orthodox monarchical trinity doctrine

1108
01:08:59,359 --> 01:09:01,880
that it has the energies auction. There is no doctrine

1109
01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:06,279
in the Trinity without energies. Jose, Guys, remember let's make

1110
01:09:06,319 --> 01:09:08,119
it quick. If you have a question, asked the question

1111
01:09:08,199 --> 01:09:10,000
so that we can move on to the twenty other people.

1112
01:09:17,199 --> 01:09:19,760
Jose was up, did.

1113
01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:22,279
Speaker 8: Jay I just wanted to do quick follow up on

1114
01:09:22,359 --> 01:09:26,000
the literacy recommendations you gave with Narnia, as well as

1115
01:09:27,359 --> 01:09:31,840
what you said about Tim Tim Gordon too, and the propabse.

1116
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:32,199
Speaker 5: Thirty one Woman.

1117
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:35,000
Speaker 8: So I know, in terms of yeah, I agree the Narnia.

1118
01:09:35,079 --> 01:09:38,159
Narnia books are fantastic. In another book that read after it,

1119
01:09:38,239 --> 01:09:42,000
that I also consider probably one of the greatest works

1120
01:09:42,039 --> 01:09:46,279
in English the twentieth century is a Watershipped Down, which

1121
01:09:46,359 --> 01:09:49,199
is also a strong recommendation and for adults. It is

1122
01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:51,960
made for children, but for adults who've not read it,

1123
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:54,840
you will love it as well. It is it is

1124
01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:58,880
it's essentially I mean, it's like an epic but written

1125
01:09:58,920 --> 01:10:02,000
for children. So one wants exposure to, you know, build

1126
01:10:02,039 --> 01:10:03,439
up the muscles to be able to read and epic

1127
01:10:03,479 --> 01:10:06,960
aimed at adults, Watership Down is an excellent place to start.

1128
01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:11,439
Speaker 5: And you were correct too on the cosmic based trilogy.

1129
01:10:11,520 --> 01:10:14,319
Speaker 8: The second book, it's very heavy in the classics, and

1130
01:10:14,399 --> 01:10:16,720
so for those who want to get exposure to the classics,

1131
01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:19,479
I thought there's a set called the Junior Classics.

1132
01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:20,119
Speaker 20: There was.

1133
01:10:20,319 --> 01:10:23,640
Speaker 8: The first edition was in nineteen ten's, the second popular

1134
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:26,920
edition was in the nineteen fifties, and Castolia Libraries publishing

1135
01:10:27,640 --> 01:10:30,720
the third edition. Currently there are ten volumes, eight with

1136
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:32,880
the Castalia ones because they haven't published the ninth and

1137
01:10:33,079 --> 01:10:37,520
tenth yet one yet, but it's essentially a collection. It's

1138
01:10:37,560 --> 01:10:39,359
like a what do you call a collection of the

1139
01:10:40,000 --> 01:10:44,319
various excerpts from the classics that are aimed at children. Well,

1140
01:10:44,439 --> 01:10:46,720
originally it was aimed at children between six and sixteen,

1141
01:10:47,279 --> 01:10:50,199
so for those who don't have you know, for those

1142
01:10:50,239 --> 01:10:54,399
who are among the majority illiterate population, that would be

1143
01:10:54,439 --> 01:10:56,840
if you're interested in being able to read the classics,

1144
01:10:57,239 --> 01:10:58,840
that would be the place to start, because it is

1145
01:10:59,239 --> 01:11:01,079
it's literally think there are plenty of stories there that

1146
01:11:01,159 --> 01:11:04,000
were where they selected stuff specifically for six year olds.

1147
01:11:04,359 --> 01:11:06,199
So it's a place where you can get your teeth

1148
01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:10,039
or you know, start cutting your teeth on. And I

1149
01:11:10,079 --> 01:11:12,720
would yeah, and yeah, that would definitely help. The one

1150
01:11:12,920 --> 01:11:14,800
was to go through the Cosmic Space trilogy. Having gone

1151
01:11:14,800 --> 01:11:17,600
through that, you get through the awesome.

1152
01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:17,800
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1153
01:11:17,800 --> 01:11:20,960
Speaker 10: I appreciate those recommendations. And everybody check out Jose when

1154
01:11:20,960 --> 01:11:28,079
he calls in over on cotail streams. Now, before we

1155
01:11:28,279 --> 01:11:30,319
go to this, I want to address the guy who

1156
01:11:30,840 --> 01:11:34,239
was fussing about the music. Listen. I don't know if

1157
01:11:34,279 --> 01:11:37,119
you guys are new to orthodoxy, but I guarantee you, uh,

1158
01:11:37,319 --> 01:11:39,560
you're a priest and your confessor and you're you're a

1159
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:42,199
spiritual father. They're going to tell you the same things

1160
01:11:42,239 --> 01:11:44,880
that I'm going to tell you right here. So we

1161
01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:48,920
don't have the same attitude that Ruman Catholics, Charismatics and

1162
01:11:49,039 --> 01:11:53,720
Protestants and perhaps other groups as well have towards your

1163
01:11:53,800 --> 01:11:57,800
good works you're fasting and what you're up to. We

1164
01:11:57,920 --> 01:12:00,560
don't need to know that you're fasting from you music today.

1165
01:12:01,239 --> 01:12:04,920
We don't need to know what your fasting regimen is. Okay, So,

1166
01:12:05,079 --> 01:12:08,880
Adolph Abara, you texted me again. My bad. I was

1167
01:12:08,920 --> 01:12:10,960
not judging you. I'm asking from ignorance. I'm a new

1168
01:12:11,039 --> 01:12:14,720
Christian because of your loud music intro. I'm avoiding music today.

1169
01:12:15,359 --> 01:12:18,279
We don't need to know what you're fasting from. And

1170
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:21,439
I'm not calling you out specifically, but in the past

1171
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:24,640
we've seen many, many people over the years who do

1172
01:12:24,760 --> 01:12:28,920
these performative actions of I need to tell everybody how

1173
01:12:29,079 --> 01:12:32,039
I'm not listening to music today and why would you

1174
01:12:32,159 --> 01:12:35,680
play music? Listen to what Jesus says. Do not do

1175
01:12:35,800 --> 01:12:39,560
your charitable deeds before men, Otherwise you have no reward

1176
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:42,239
from your Father in heaven if you do it. Don't

1177
01:12:42,319 --> 01:12:45,159
sound trumpets We don't need to know your fasting regimen.

1178
01:12:45,439 --> 01:12:48,520
Nobody needs to know your fasting regimen. Nobody needs to

1179
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:53,720
know what you think about other people fasting. In fact,

1180
01:12:53,840 --> 01:12:55,720
do not let your left hand know what your right

1181
01:12:55,760 --> 01:13:01,319
hand is doing and when you pray. Here's a great

1182
01:13:01,439 --> 01:13:06,920
sign of a lunatic. Do not make performative prayers on

1183
01:13:07,079 --> 01:13:09,920
your live streams for all to see with your hands up.

1184
01:13:10,439 --> 01:13:13,880
Has anyone noticed any other people doing this? This should

1185
01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:18,560
be red flag number one. For the hypocrites love to

1186
01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:20,920
stand on the set in the corners of the street

1187
01:13:21,000 --> 01:13:23,439
praying so that they can be seen by all men praying.

1188
01:13:24,840 --> 01:13:27,399
The hypocrites love to pray for thirty minutes on their

1189
01:13:27,439 --> 01:13:32,239
live streams in performative prayers. That should be a red

1190
01:13:32,279 --> 01:13:35,119
flag number one. Does nobody remember these passages? Did you

1191
01:13:35,199 --> 01:13:40,000
not read these passages when you were learning Christianity coming

1192
01:13:40,079 --> 01:13:48,159
into the church? Haus ten dollars? Thank you for your work.

1193
01:13:48,199 --> 01:13:54,199
Thank you man, Theosi's man. I'm not trying to be

1194
01:13:54,239 --> 01:13:56,920
read to you, man, but I don't know how many

1195
01:13:56,960 --> 01:13:59,439
times we have to go over this with you. How

1196
01:13:59,520 --> 01:14:01,520
can I pray the Orthodox view the Trinity from tag

1197
01:14:01,560 --> 01:14:04,399
if I'm talking to an atheist it's not your job

1198
01:14:04,520 --> 01:14:05,800
to have to prove the trinity.

1199
01:14:05,840 --> 01:14:06,000
Speaker 5: Man.

1200
01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:10,439
Speaker 10: You're going to have to work through a lot of

1201
01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:14,319
different stages with any specific atheist. So I doubt you're

1202
01:14:14,359 --> 01:14:16,960
going to be able to immediately argue an atheist into

1203
01:14:17,039 --> 01:14:19,439
the Trinity. All you have to do is show their

1204
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:23,000
worldview doesn't work at all, and you can gradually work

1205
01:14:23,039 --> 01:14:24,920
them over to the Trinity. I think you're looking for

1206
01:14:26,079 --> 01:14:31,840
a formula that's going to be a perfect argument on

1207
01:14:32,039 --> 01:14:34,600
the spot to convince an atheist, and it doesn't work

1208
01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:40,119
that way. That's atheists, right. The atheist problem is not intellect,

1209
01:14:41,039 --> 01:14:45,880
it's part and pride. What would you say, Father Deacon,

1210
01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:49,000
to a person who says, where's the perfect formulation of

1211
01:14:49,039 --> 01:14:50,800
the list of tag proving Trinity?

1212
01:14:53,439 --> 01:14:55,760
Speaker 5: I'd say that I keep it hidden in a secret

1213
01:14:56,199 --> 01:14:57,279
bunker up here.

1214
01:15:00,079 --> 01:15:04,880
Speaker 13: At only during Montanica do I bring it out during

1215
01:15:04,920 --> 01:15:07,159
the conference and show people.

1216
01:15:08,840 --> 01:15:10,560
Speaker 10: Now, you're making a joke, but somebody's going to clip

1217
01:15:10,600 --> 01:15:13,199
that and say that you're a scammer, that you're actually

1218
01:15:13,239 --> 01:15:14,800
just trying to Yeah, I.

1219
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:19,600
Speaker 5: Know, I think what you said perfect.

1220
01:15:20,560 --> 01:15:25,079
Speaker 13: First of all, it's a misunderstanding tag. Second of all,

1221
01:15:25,119 --> 01:15:29,359
the easy I like what you said that the easiest

1222
01:15:29,479 --> 01:15:32,399
way is just to show that it is defending the

1223
01:15:32,520 --> 01:15:38,479
orthodoxy by showing that their role view of accidentalism cannot

1224
01:15:38,560 --> 01:15:44,880
make any knowledge, statements or account for anything. Number three,

1225
01:15:46,119 --> 01:15:48,840
it's exactly what you said and what you and I

1226
01:15:48,920 --> 01:15:52,520
were talking about the other night. These people just ask me, like, well,

1227
01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:54,399
I want to see I proves the trend laid out

1228
01:15:54,439 --> 01:15:55,399
in the premise format.

1229
01:15:56,039 --> 01:15:59,920
Speaker 5: I do that. I even do modi logic, second order

1230
01:16:00,119 --> 01:16:03,039
logic and stuff and work this out and all the.

1231
01:16:03,119 --> 01:16:07,039
Speaker 13: Details, and it never convinces any of these people. So

1232
01:16:08,319 --> 01:16:10,560
that's what this gentleman has to realize. You're not going

1233
01:16:10,640 --> 01:16:14,520
to convince them. You can maybe start by just showing

1234
01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:18,479
that their worldview is bankrupt, but you're not.

1235
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:21,880
Speaker 5: You're not going to be able to figure out an argument.

1236
01:16:22,520 --> 01:16:26,039
Speaker 13: That's the silver bullet that like nobody could object to,

1237
01:16:26,239 --> 01:16:28,880
and we just convince everybody. It's it's not going to happen,

1238
01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:32,600
even if there is the argument that exists out there.

1239
01:16:33,079 --> 01:16:36,439
Speaker 10: Touchtones fifty dollars experiencing my first pasco. I'm a Catechuman.

1240
01:16:36,520 --> 01:16:38,760
How can I be a solid lay person supporting my

1241
01:16:38,840 --> 01:16:44,920
clergy and be a friend to other lay people? I

1242
01:16:45,000 --> 01:16:48,800
mean just continue to be friendly. I mean, I mean

1243
01:16:48,840 --> 01:16:50,399
I appreciate the super child. I just don't know how

1244
01:16:50,399 --> 01:16:53,279
to answer that, how to be a solid lay person.

1245
01:16:53,520 --> 01:16:56,520
I mean, if you're new, I would just take my

1246
01:16:56,680 --> 01:17:00,600
time learning the theology and don't get overzealo thinking that

1247
01:17:00,840 --> 01:17:04,600
you have to go out and debate everybody. Not everybody

1248
01:17:04,640 --> 01:17:06,720
has to do what we are doing over here. Right,

1249
01:17:06,840 --> 01:17:12,079
you don't have to debate people. Theosis ten tag is

1250
01:17:12,119 --> 01:17:15,000
perfect to shatter atheists world the Orthodox otfers a gospel.

1251
01:17:15,640 --> 01:17:18,720
I would love to bridge the categories. Well, then just

1252
01:17:18,840 --> 01:17:22,399
learn both and apply what's appropriate at the time.

1253
01:17:22,760 --> 01:17:22,880
Speaker 5: Right.

1254
01:17:23,840 --> 01:17:27,880
Speaker 10: So it's going to take time for an atheist to

1255
01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:31,640
have his worldview kind of broken down and then for

1256
01:17:32,119 --> 01:17:39,600
him to like gradually begin to consider orthodox metaphysical claims. Right,

1257
01:17:40,119 --> 01:17:43,560
But remember, an it's not an intellectual issue that people have,

1258
01:17:44,479 --> 01:17:51,760
it's a heart issue. I would say, just keep going

1259
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:55,560
to church and be friends with people, and support your

1260
01:17:55,600 --> 01:17:59,039
clergy as long as they aren't teaching or telling you

1261
01:17:59,119 --> 01:18:04,800
to do something wrong. I'm new, I love my faith

1262
01:18:04,880 --> 01:18:06,800
in my parish, I'm new to church life. Well good,

1263
01:18:06,960 --> 01:18:09,560
you're gonna have a good time. But everybody should be

1264
01:18:09,600 --> 01:18:13,920
prepared too, that the church, clergy and people will let

1265
01:18:13,960 --> 01:18:18,159
you down. You will be let down eventually by somebody, right,

1266
01:18:19,159 --> 01:18:21,439
and you have to be prepared that when you come

1267
01:18:21,479 --> 01:18:25,039
to the Orthodox Church it's not honeymoon and there's no

1268
01:18:25,159 --> 01:18:29,600
more problems and everybody's saints and everybody's cool. You're gonna

1269
01:18:29,640 --> 01:18:33,840
have all the same problems anywhere humans are. So I'm

1270
01:18:33,880 --> 01:18:36,319
just telling you to be prepared for that and don't

1271
01:18:36,399 --> 01:18:40,279
have unrealistic expectations and then get butt hurt when the

1272
01:18:40,399 --> 01:18:43,000
priest lets you down or your bishop says something that

1273
01:18:43,760 --> 01:18:46,960
makes you angry. It's gonna happen. You need to be

1274
01:18:47,159 --> 01:18:50,960
prepared and ready to deal with that is it will happen.

1275
01:18:58,079 --> 01:19:03,800
Alessandro Perez five dollars.

1276
01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:08,039
Speaker 5: Jay.

1277
01:19:08,159 --> 01:19:10,119
Speaker 10: Some of my church friends said, there's a difference between

1278
01:19:10,199 --> 01:19:13,239
heretic and a schismatic. There is a difference, but the

1279
01:19:13,319 --> 01:19:15,640
patristic teaching is that both are outside of the church.

1280
01:19:15,960 --> 01:19:18,640
So from the vantage point of whether or not they're

1281
01:19:18,640 --> 01:19:20,960
in or outside the church, there is no difference. There

1282
01:19:21,039 --> 01:19:23,800
is a difference between what a schismatic is that's a

1283
01:19:24,079 --> 01:19:27,359
sin against brotherly love, and a heretic, which is a

1284
01:19:27,439 --> 01:19:33,880
sin against theology. Whether Orientals are schismatics or heretics, depends

1285
01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:37,640
on whether they would agree with the You know, a

1286
01:19:37,680 --> 01:19:39,800
lot of them will admit that the Fifth Ecumenical Council

1287
01:19:40,159 --> 01:19:45,520
is theologically correct, but if they reject Leo, and if

1288
01:19:45,560 --> 01:19:49,520
they reject the Orthodox Church, then they're also schismatics and heretics.

1289
01:19:53,319 --> 01:19:56,119
Once again, I mean, the Orientals don't have a consistent

1290
01:19:56,239 --> 01:19:59,800
energies teaching because they are confused over nature in person.

1291
01:20:01,000 --> 01:20:03,640
So if you don't have a consistent nature person doctrine,

1292
01:20:03,680 --> 01:20:07,000
if you don't have the essencenary distinction clearly and consistently,

1293
01:20:07,800 --> 01:20:09,840
then you're going to be all messed up in your theology.

1294
01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:13,399
And that's why you see Oriental theology all over the place.

1295
01:20:14,079 --> 01:20:15,960
Orthodoe one hundred dollars. Hey, j I left a super

1296
01:20:16,039 --> 01:20:19,239
chat saying that you're the reason that I left Protestantism

1297
01:20:19,279 --> 01:20:21,079
and now going to be baptizing the Orthodox Church. Is

1298
01:20:21,119 --> 01:20:24,159
past Pasca. My whole life changed because of what you

1299
01:20:24,279 --> 01:20:26,600
did and what your work, what your work was all about.

1300
01:20:26,680 --> 01:20:28,479
God bless you, Jay, Thank you man. I did read

1301
01:20:28,520 --> 01:20:32,039
your I think you were the Pentecostal guy. We had

1302
01:20:32,079 --> 01:20:35,600
a Pentecostal preacher who converted to Orthodoxy. Is that you,

1303
01:20:35,800 --> 01:20:39,279
I think it is. Thank you for that comment there, man,

1304
01:20:39,279 --> 01:20:42,439
I appreciate it. Yeah, I think you know, we begin

1305
01:20:42,560 --> 01:20:48,720
to see, hopefully some Pentecostals and Charismatics coming to understand that, like,

1306
01:20:48,880 --> 01:20:52,159
that's an insane heresy. You know, I'm not meaning to

1307
01:20:52,239 --> 01:20:55,960
be mean to people. I'm saying the teaching that gibberish

1308
01:20:56,239 --> 01:20:59,199
is somehow of God or I mean, that's just it's

1309
01:20:59,279 --> 01:21:03,039
just weird. It's it's not at all what exists in

1310
01:21:03,199 --> 01:21:06,359
the New Testament, and it never existed until what one

1311
01:21:06,399 --> 01:21:11,359
hundred years ago, eighteen hundreds as sestro five dollars. When

1312
01:21:11,479 --> 01:21:14,680
is your lecture on Yakubian orbonomics, Well, if you have

1313
01:21:14,960 --> 01:21:18,319
the decoder, you would know that all of my lectures

1314
01:21:18,359 --> 01:21:21,239
have really truly been about that. But you need a

1315
01:21:21,399 --> 01:21:25,920
peepstone decoder, kind of like my boy Joe Smith had,

1316
01:21:26,279 --> 01:21:32,520
Jojo Smith and Momo Mohammed they had secret decoders, And

1317
01:21:35,239 --> 01:21:38,079
when you get your decoder ring, you can actually decode

1318
01:21:38,119 --> 01:21:41,920
all of my lectures to get the secret real gnostic

1319
01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:44,479
teaching that I was really teaching the whole time in

1320
01:21:44,680 --> 01:21:47,560
s five dollars? Can you explain why the crucifixion was necessary?

1321
01:21:48,399 --> 01:21:50,520
I don't have a simple, coherent way to explain it,

1322
01:21:51,119 --> 01:21:55,319
to heal our natures. So it was also a demonstration

1323
01:21:55,439 --> 01:22:03,000
of love. So it was also uh the way that

1324
01:22:03,279 --> 01:22:06,000
how else would death be destroyed? Right, other than to

1325
01:22:06,159 --> 01:22:08,600
take on our nature and to destroy death. I did

1326
01:22:08,600 --> 01:22:11,319
a whole talk on this called You're in a Cosmic battle,

1327
01:22:11,840 --> 01:22:13,960
So go watch my cosmic battle video.

1328
01:22:16,319 --> 01:22:19,199
Speaker 13: The way Father Thomas Hopp goes the Word of the

1329
01:22:19,319 --> 01:22:22,039
Cross is a good resource for that.

1330
01:22:22,319 --> 01:22:23,359
Speaker 10: Okay, Nicolai, what's up?

1331
01:22:27,439 --> 01:22:34,720
Speaker 5: P plased my audible What's up? Man? I was struggling with.

1332
01:22:36,760 --> 01:22:40,560
Speaker 8: Formulating, putting together in words, how the one logos relates

1333
01:22:40,680 --> 01:22:42,079
to the many logis, So.

1334
01:22:42,119 --> 01:22:43,319
Speaker 5: Maybe you could help me there.

1335
01:22:44,319 --> 01:22:47,880
Speaker 10: Well, logi are just divine ideas, and so there's one

1336
01:22:47,960 --> 01:22:50,800
mind in the triad. God has more than one idea,

1337
01:22:50,880 --> 01:22:54,680
He has many ideas and every divine energy, and a

1338
01:22:54,760 --> 01:22:57,800
logi is also a divine energy. According to Palamas, they're

1339
01:22:57,840 --> 01:23:00,319
all from the Father, through the Son and then this spirit.

1340
01:23:00,720 --> 01:23:05,119
So they're all triaddic and they're uniquely manifested through the logos,

1341
01:23:05,399 --> 01:23:08,600
as it pertains to in this case the created order.

1342
01:23:08,600 --> 01:23:11,720
If you're talking about the logos' ideas for creation, So

1343
01:23:12,000 --> 01:23:15,159
God created the world through the Sun, as the New

1344
01:23:15,199 --> 01:23:18,119
Testament says many times over, and it's based on the

1345
01:23:18,399 --> 01:23:20,840
divine ideas that he had for the created order, and

1346
01:23:21,399 --> 01:23:23,880
the Sun manifests all those ideas.

1347
01:23:26,479 --> 01:23:26,760
Speaker 5: Thanks.

1348
01:23:29,319 --> 01:23:31,479
Speaker 10: Yep. Now, guys, remember a lot of these questions. And

1349
01:23:31,520 --> 01:23:33,640
I'm not faulting that guy or the people that are

1350
01:23:33,680 --> 01:23:35,760
asking the same types of questions right now in the

1351
01:23:35,880 --> 01:23:38,680
chat and in the super chats. If you go to

1352
01:23:38,760 --> 01:23:41,319
my channel, you can go down to the bottom and

1353
01:23:41,479 --> 01:23:43,680
you can see where we've lectured through the entirety of

1354
01:23:43,760 --> 01:23:47,079
on the Orthodox Faith. And I'm not trying to be dismissive,

1355
01:23:47,199 --> 01:23:49,199
but a lot of you guys call in and you

1356
01:23:49,319 --> 01:23:53,479
ask the same questions over and over. And I don't

1357
01:23:53,520 --> 01:23:56,000
blame you because I understand that you're new to these topics.

1358
01:23:56,039 --> 01:23:58,039
But if you come down here to this playlist, that's

1359
01:23:58,119 --> 01:24:02,319
why I made this playlist. There is this entire series

1360
01:24:02,439 --> 01:24:06,680
here going through on the Orthodox Faith by John Damascus.

1361
01:24:06,760 --> 01:24:09,520
We walked through the entire book. We go through the

1362
01:24:09,680 --> 01:24:13,000
essence sentergy distinction down here. Even in Athenasius, we go

1363
01:24:13,199 --> 01:24:18,359
through Father Sir from Roses books seven years ago. Right.

1364
01:24:18,880 --> 01:24:22,800
We walked through a lot of transcendent argument stuff down here.

1365
01:24:24,159 --> 01:24:29,319
So remember there's a playlist that's been up for seven

1366
01:24:29,439 --> 01:24:32,960
or eight years with almost all of these questions already

1367
01:24:33,000 --> 01:24:36,359
there right there. But if you have a question, that's fine,

1368
01:24:36,399 --> 01:24:38,880
let's make it quick, let's move through it. We don't

1369
01:24:38,960 --> 01:24:40,880
need I'm not trying to be rude to you, so

1370
01:24:40,960 --> 01:24:43,640
don't get mad at me. But we don't need a backstory.

1371
01:24:43,800 --> 01:24:46,520
We don't need to know about you, know, all your

1372
01:24:46,600 --> 01:24:49,840
history and all that, because I want to give the

1373
01:24:50,000 --> 01:25:11,399
twenty five people in line here a chance to come up. Daniel, Daniel,

1374
01:25:11,439 --> 01:25:12,720
im you, Hey.

1375
01:25:12,640 --> 01:25:13,239
Speaker 5: Jay, can you hear me?

1376
01:25:13,439 --> 01:25:13,760
Speaker 10: Uh huh?

1377
01:25:14,520 --> 01:25:16,800
Speaker 5: Hey? Can you explain to me the why?

1378
01:25:17,000 --> 01:25:20,560
Speaker 19: Specifically, Jesus winn he went up from the mountain to

1379
01:25:20,600 --> 01:25:25,720
pass for forty days. Obviously he is God, he is perfect,

1380
01:25:26,600 --> 01:25:27,720
He cannot send, though he.

1381
01:25:27,760 --> 01:25:30,600
Speaker 5: Could be tempted. What was the actual like, what was

1382
01:25:30,640 --> 01:25:33,199
the reason for him going on the mountain the mountain

1383
01:25:33,319 --> 01:25:34,680
to pass for forty days?

1384
01:25:35,159 --> 01:25:37,880
Speaker 10: For one, he's setting For one, he's setting example. And

1385
01:25:37,960 --> 01:25:41,359
number two, he is himself the embodiment of Israel. He

1386
01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:44,279
is the new Israel embodied. And so Israel wandered in

1387
01:25:44,319 --> 01:25:48,319
the wilderness for forty years Jesus is going into the

1388
01:25:48,359 --> 01:25:51,880
wilderness to wander in his own recapitulation of the history

1389
01:25:51,920 --> 01:25:54,560
and life of Israel for forty days and for forty nights.

1390
01:25:56,039 --> 01:25:58,359
Speaker 19: So it's partly symbolic, partly as.

1391
01:25:58,359 --> 01:26:02,119
Speaker 10: A he's setting ample for us, just just like he

1392
01:26:02,960 --> 01:26:07,039
said when he got baptized. Right, John the Baptist says,

1393
01:26:07,319 --> 01:26:09,560
I need to have need of being baptized by you,

1394
01:26:09,880 --> 01:26:12,399
not me baptized you. Jesus says, let it be done

1395
01:26:12,439 --> 01:26:15,039
to fill all righteousness. So he's setting an example, just

1396
01:26:15,159 --> 01:26:17,680
like when he prays to the Father. He's setting an

1397
01:26:17,720 --> 01:26:18,520
example for us.

1398
01:26:18,880 --> 01:26:22,399
Speaker 21: Okay, okay, I guess I never thought about it, despite

1399
01:26:22,439 --> 01:26:23,760
reading I never thought about it like that.

1400
01:26:23,880 --> 01:26:28,039
Speaker 10: Thank you, and most patristic exi Jesus will say basically

1401
01:26:28,159 --> 01:26:29,039
that preston, what's up?

1402
01:26:33,960 --> 01:26:34,279
Speaker 5: Hey, Jake?

1403
01:26:34,319 --> 01:26:34,680
Speaker 25: Can you hear me?

1404
01:26:34,760 --> 01:26:36,359
Speaker 5: Uh huh okay.

1405
01:26:36,439 --> 01:26:39,399
Speaker 20: So I was a fourth generation Seven day Adventist, I

1406
01:26:39,520 --> 01:26:42,560
left and I rebuked it. So, coming from a Restorationist background,

1407
01:26:43,479 --> 01:26:46,159
could you have explained the arc of the Covenant with

1408
01:26:46,279 --> 01:26:48,119
mary kind of theology and orthodoxy?

1409
01:26:49,720 --> 01:26:52,159
Speaker 10: I mean, did you watch my forty minute talk on it?

1410
01:26:53,600 --> 01:26:53,720
Speaker 5: Uh?

1411
01:26:53,800 --> 01:26:55,880
Speaker 20: No, I just discovered your videos pretty recently.

1412
01:26:56,600 --> 01:26:59,439
Speaker 10: Okay, so I have a I'm happy to address a

1413
01:26:59,479 --> 01:27:01,800
specific question if you have it, but I have a

1414
01:27:01,920 --> 01:27:05,840
forty minute video specifically on that topic right here. So

1415
01:27:05,960 --> 01:27:09,159
do you want to specify like a more precise question.

1416
01:27:11,720 --> 01:27:13,319
Speaker 20: Well, actually, okay, let me just think about that.

1417
01:27:13,399 --> 01:27:14,600
Speaker 5: I'll hop out them.

1418
01:27:15,159 --> 01:27:17,720
Speaker 10: I mean, you can ask a question like what's a

1419
01:27:19,159 --> 01:27:20,880
what do you want me to specify about it?

1420
01:27:22,279 --> 01:27:23,079
Speaker 5: Well, I guess I'm just.

1421
01:27:23,119 --> 01:27:26,520
Speaker 20: Kind of confused because I mean, coming from my previous

1422
01:27:26,680 --> 01:27:29,319
like thought and knowledge with it, my thought is that like, well,

1423
01:27:29,399 --> 01:27:29,960
the law.

1424
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:32,079
Speaker 5: Like the Ten Commandments, is what's in the Ark of

1425
01:27:32,159 --> 01:27:32,640
the Covenant.

1426
01:27:32,880 --> 01:27:34,359
Speaker 20: So I just kind of have a problem wrapping my

1427
01:27:34,359 --> 01:27:36,079
head around, like, well, Jesus isn't the law.

1428
01:27:37,479 --> 01:27:38,079
Speaker 3: He is the law.

1429
01:27:38,159 --> 01:27:40,399
Speaker 10: He's the living Torah. So what do you mean It's

1430
01:27:40,479 --> 01:27:43,600
not just the it's not just the law that's in there.

1431
01:27:43,680 --> 01:27:48,000
It's the Manna and the rod of Aaron that budded.

1432
01:27:48,039 --> 01:27:49,359
All three of those things are in the Arc of

1433
01:27:49,439 --> 01:27:51,640
the Covenant. All of those things point to Christ.

1434
01:27:53,760 --> 01:27:57,439
Speaker 20: Okay, and that's like that's said in the scriptures and stuff.

1435
01:27:57,600 --> 01:27:58,399
Speaker 5: I just don't know where's at.

1436
01:27:58,520 --> 01:28:01,439
Speaker 10: Yeah, well, if you read the Book of Hebrews, Hebrew seven, particularly,

1437
01:28:01,560 --> 01:28:05,319
well four to seven. We'll explain every aspect to which

1438
01:28:05,680 --> 01:28:12,720
that is. All right, So now hold on a second. Hey,

1439
01:28:12,760 --> 01:28:13,119
what's up?

1440
01:28:14,199 --> 01:28:15,840
Speaker 5: What's up? You're not streaming right now? Right?

1441
01:28:16,079 --> 01:28:18,960
Speaker 10: Yeah, but what's up? You're live, by the way, But

1442
01:28:19,000 --> 01:28:19,359
go ahead.

1443
01:28:21,199 --> 01:28:22,439
Speaker 5: Oh. I was just going to see if he had

1444
01:28:22,479 --> 01:28:23,239
a debate coming.

1445
01:28:23,119 --> 01:28:27,319
Speaker 10: Up with ruband I have a debate June second on

1446
01:28:28,439 --> 01:28:34,840
Western intelligence funding for ISIS and al Qaida. Is our

1447
01:28:34,880 --> 01:28:39,720
debate June second. But I am live, so be careful

1448
01:28:39,760 --> 01:28:41,840
if you don't, you know, don't say nasty words or something.

1449
01:28:43,600 --> 01:28:46,720
Speaker 5: But I mean, I usually only call you because I

1450
01:28:46,880 --> 01:28:48,279
know that it's okay for me to take.

1451
01:28:48,159 --> 01:28:53,640
Speaker 10: Say nasty words, right man, all right, that's all I

1452
01:28:53,720 --> 01:28:57,960
want to know. Thanks, Yeah, June second. So when is

1453
01:28:58,000 --> 01:28:58,880
your debate two weeks?

1454
01:28:59,600 --> 01:28:59,840
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1455
01:29:00,520 --> 01:29:02,520
Speaker 10: Yeah, it's a different topic though. He wanted to debate

1456
01:29:02,680 --> 01:29:06,319
me on that, So I'm not trying to conflict with

1457
01:29:06,399 --> 01:29:08,439
your your debate with him. That was something that he

1458
01:29:08,560 --> 01:29:09,760
wanted to do a long time ago.

1459
01:29:10,960 --> 01:29:13,159
Speaker 5: Oh, there's no, there's no conflict. I was just curious,

1460
01:29:14,399 --> 01:29:14,680
all right.

1461
01:29:14,760 --> 01:29:14,960
Speaker 2: Thanks.

1462
01:29:17,520 --> 01:29:17,640
Speaker 5: Uh.

1463
01:29:18,079 --> 01:29:20,640
Speaker 10: Hopefully that didn't shut down the stream. Sometimes when you

1464
01:29:20,680 --> 01:29:24,920
get a phone call, it shuts down the x space. Uh,

1465
01:29:28,239 --> 01:29:40,359
all right, cleave, what's up man? I'm you so this

1466
01:29:40,479 --> 01:29:42,560
Protestant guy has been wanting to come and debate for

1467
01:29:42,640 --> 01:29:45,560
a good while. Now cleave to antiquity. What's up?

1468
01:29:45,600 --> 01:29:45,760
Speaker 5: Man?

1469
01:29:55,720 --> 01:29:58,319
Speaker 10: You may have to walk closer to your router or

1470
01:29:58,439 --> 01:30:06,079
go get a signal. Man, it's not connecting. Cleeve, you

1471
01:30:06,119 --> 01:30:07,560
want to come out and try again, I'll bring you

1472
01:30:07,680 --> 01:30:13,479
up next because it's not connecting, all right, so let's

1473
01:30:13,479 --> 01:30:28,640
move through it quick. JP. What's up man? I wonder

1474
01:30:28,720 --> 01:30:31,199
if that shut down the stream taking the phone call.

1475
01:30:31,880 --> 01:30:33,800
I might have to restart the space. Can you guys

1476
01:30:33,840 --> 01:30:44,680
hear me? It's not connecting to him either, Macarius, can

1477
01:30:44,720 --> 01:30:50,880
you hear me? I might have to create a new stream,

1478
01:30:52,039 --> 01:31:01,560
I mean a new space. It's like it's not connecting

1479
01:31:01,600 --> 01:31:11,319
anybody now, father Deacon, can you hear me? All right, Well,

1480
01:31:11,319 --> 01:31:13,399
I'm gonna have to, I guess, create a new space

1481
01:31:13,560 --> 01:31:16,359
because that shut it down. I should have remembered you

1482
01:31:16,399 --> 01:31:29,119
can't take a phone call. What I forgot? Okay, guys,

1483
01:31:29,159 --> 01:31:32,520
I'm creating a new Twitter space.

1484
01:31:34,720 --> 01:31:45,720
Speaker 26: So come on over here to the new one Catholic, Protestant, Muslim.

1485
01:32:06,640 --> 01:32:08,920
Speaker 10: Okay, I made I made a new space I'm gonna

1486
01:32:08,920 --> 01:32:11,840
put it underneath the previous space and you guys can

1487
01:32:11,880 --> 01:32:14,439
hop in there, because I think me taking the phone

1488
01:32:14,479 --> 01:32:19,640
call automatically shuts down the space. So here we go.

1489
01:32:19,720 --> 01:32:27,479
It's linked underneath, and uh, let me restart that because

1490
01:32:27,520 --> 01:32:29,720
I think this Protestant guy has been trying to get

1491
01:32:29,760 --> 01:32:32,000
on here for a while. So let's go ahead and

1492
01:32:32,000 --> 01:32:34,319
start the new space and then give it to you

1493
01:32:34,439 --> 01:33:04,199
guys here in the chat as a link. Okay, here's

1494
01:33:04,239 --> 01:33:44,119
the new space. All right, welcome back to the new

1495
01:33:44,159 --> 01:33:50,279
space over here on Twitter, and let's go to jp

1496
01:33:50,439 --> 01:33:57,760
against if it works now, Hey Jacon here, Yeah, what's up, dude.

1497
01:33:58,840 --> 01:34:01,920
Speaker 25: So I wanted your feedback on a line of argmentation

1498
01:34:02,079 --> 01:34:06,840
that I've been thinking about with Catholics, essentially just wondering

1499
01:34:06,960 --> 01:34:11,880
why the papacy isn't a sacrament because whenever we look

1500
01:34:11,960 --> 01:34:17,840
at their three degrees of Holy orders, they're all differentiated

1501
01:34:17,920 --> 01:34:21,159
by different gifts kind of thing you receive, right, Like

1502
01:34:21,279 --> 01:34:23,520
the deacons have a certain role and certain things that

1503
01:34:23,600 --> 01:34:26,800
they can do, and then the priests have certain things

1504
01:34:26,840 --> 01:34:29,520
that they can do, and that the bishops have certain

1505
01:34:29,560 --> 01:34:30,319
things that they can do.

1506
01:34:30,760 --> 01:34:34,720
Speaker 5: So whatever I look at the papacy the papacy itself has.

1507
01:34:34,640 --> 01:34:37,479
Speaker 25: Certain things that only they can do, so I wonder

1508
01:34:37,560 --> 01:34:41,000
why they're not included as an extra degree in their

1509
01:34:41,039 --> 01:34:41,640
holy orders.

1510
01:34:41,680 --> 01:34:44,319
Speaker 10: Well, I think that you could perhaps make an argument

1511
01:34:45,600 --> 01:34:49,159
from history that that proves that it's a doctrine that

1512
01:34:49,279 --> 01:34:54,199
developed because it would have been a sacrament, you could say,

1513
01:34:54,640 --> 01:34:58,800
based on those definitions. So I don't know how convincing

1514
01:34:58,840 --> 01:35:01,000
that would be through Roman Catholic because number one, they

1515
01:35:01,079 --> 01:35:04,880
may just say yeah, but I accept doctrinal development, so

1516
01:35:04,960 --> 01:35:07,960
I don't have a problem with it developing into where

1517
01:35:08,000 --> 01:35:11,319
it is. And because there was not a sacrament of

1518
01:35:11,359 --> 01:35:14,560
the papacy in the early Church, you know, they might

1519
01:35:14,680 --> 01:35:18,720
say something like that, but it would seem like that

1520
01:35:18,800 --> 01:35:26,960
would be good for demonstrating the ahistoricity of the papacy. Cleave,

1521
01:35:30,920 --> 01:35:31,720
what's on your mind?

1522
01:35:32,760 --> 01:35:34,720
Speaker 5: Hey? So first off, I want to see I'm a

1523
01:35:34,760 --> 01:35:35,760
fan man, I love your channel.

1524
01:35:36,840 --> 01:35:39,359
Speaker 24: Yeah, I'm a protisty. I know you're talking a little

1525
01:35:39,399 --> 01:35:42,000
bit earlier about me wanting to debate. So I heard

1526
01:35:42,039 --> 01:35:46,079
you talk about anathemas to an inquirer that called in

1527
01:35:46,159 --> 01:35:47,800
on one of the previous live streams, and you had

1528
01:35:47,840 --> 01:35:51,000
said that anathema's basically correct me if I'm wrong, But

1529
01:35:51,159 --> 01:35:52,760
just like a separation.

1530
01:35:52,359 --> 01:35:52,920
Speaker 5: From the church.

1531
01:35:54,840 --> 01:35:58,560
Speaker 10: Yeah, it's a pronouncement that the person is outside the

1532
01:35:58,600 --> 01:36:01,600
mystical body. They're excommunicator, much the same way that Paul

1533
01:36:01,720 --> 01:36:04,159
tells the Church of Corinth to excommunicate people.

1534
01:36:05,520 --> 01:36:07,760
Speaker 5: Okay, would you see that as like a separation from

1535
01:36:07,840 --> 01:36:08,600
Christ himself?

1536
01:36:09,560 --> 01:36:12,560
Speaker 10: Yeah, the mystical body of Christ is the Orthodox Church,

1537
01:36:12,640 --> 01:36:14,279
so yes, okay.

1538
01:36:14,560 --> 01:36:17,399
Speaker 5: So the individual that was talking to you earlier, they

1539
01:36:17,439 --> 01:36:18,880
were concerned.

1540
01:36:18,880 --> 01:36:21,399
Speaker 24: I guess they had like a Baptist family member or something,

1541
01:36:21,439 --> 01:36:23,600
and they were concerned about well, you know, I wouldn't

1542
01:36:23,600 --> 01:36:26,319
want to become an Easian Orthodox because you know, I'd

1543
01:36:26,359 --> 01:36:28,760
have to say, you know, basically all these people are

1544
01:36:28,800 --> 01:36:31,920
going to hell because they're you know, separated from Christ obviously,

1545
01:36:32,000 --> 01:36:33,640
unless they were pent I mean, what would you.

1546
01:36:36,039 --> 01:36:38,159
Speaker 10: And we've addressed this. I'm not trying to be rude

1547
01:36:38,159 --> 01:36:40,600
to you, but we've addressed to probably fifty times. So

1548
01:36:40,920 --> 01:36:44,920
we don't make the accusation that everyone who is without

1549
01:36:45,359 --> 01:36:49,920
the visible bounce Orthodox Church is necessarily damned because God can,

1550
01:36:50,399 --> 01:36:53,640
through extra normative means, join people to the mystical body.

1551
01:36:54,119 --> 01:36:56,479
But the only way to be saved is for God

1552
01:36:56,560 --> 01:36:59,439
to do that. So if people want to try to

1553
01:36:59,600 --> 01:37:02,960
risk that and be outside the arc, outside the Covenant,

1554
01:37:03,039 --> 01:37:06,159
outside the you know, the temple, all the different analogies

1555
01:37:06,199 --> 01:37:10,439
in the New Testament for the single visible canonical Orthodox Church,

1556
01:37:11,159 --> 01:37:13,680
they can do that, but I don't think that's going

1557
01:37:13,760 --> 01:37:16,319
to be very successful. In fact, Paul talks about risking

1558
01:37:16,439 --> 01:37:17,920
shipwreck outside the church.

1559
01:37:19,239 --> 01:37:22,279
Speaker 24: Sure, So I mean would you say that it would

1560
01:37:22,319 --> 01:37:25,359
be the same as saying that they I don't know,

1561
01:37:25,920 --> 01:37:28,359
they're separated from the church or separated from Christ, and

1562
01:37:28,439 --> 01:37:31,000
they don't they don't have salvation because salvation is only

1563
01:37:31,039 --> 01:37:31,880
found within the church.

1564
01:37:33,039 --> 01:37:37,119
Speaker 10: Again, we don't make Paul says. Paul says, what do

1565
01:37:37,239 --> 01:37:39,520
we have to do with judging those that are without?

1566
01:37:40,079 --> 01:37:41,800
We focus on and judge those within.

1567
01:37:43,039 --> 01:37:45,680
Speaker 24: Okay, So still they would have no salvation though, so

1568
01:37:45,800 --> 01:37:47,840
that would be something to overcome if you'd want to

1569
01:37:47,840 --> 01:37:48,640
become Orthodox.

1570
01:37:49,199 --> 01:37:50,239
Speaker 5: Well, we can move on.

1571
01:37:50,439 --> 01:37:52,640
Speaker 10: I mean, you're putting words in my mouth because what

1572
01:37:52,760 --> 01:37:54,720
I said was that they would be outside the church

1573
01:37:54,800 --> 01:37:56,680
and unless by the end of their life, God in

1574
01:37:56,800 --> 01:38:01,079
some miraculous, extra normative way joins them to the mystical body,

1575
01:38:01,520 --> 01:38:03,279
which he can do. He could He did this with

1576
01:38:03,359 --> 01:38:06,319
the thief on the cross. He can do that. But

1577
01:38:06,960 --> 01:38:09,079
our job is to tell people to become Orthodox.

1578
01:38:09,880 --> 01:38:11,479
Speaker 24: Yeah, I get what you're saying. It would have to

1579
01:38:11,520 --> 01:38:14,399
be some kind of extra normative mean means that, you know,

1580
01:38:14,600 --> 01:38:15,920
just based on christ mercy.

1581
01:38:16,439 --> 01:38:20,279
Speaker 10: We believe that the Orthodox Church is the mystical body

1582
01:38:20,319 --> 01:38:23,319
of Christ. It's a visible thing. There is no invisible Church.

1583
01:38:23,479 --> 01:38:26,720
It is that single visible thing, one holy Catholic.

1584
01:38:26,720 --> 01:38:30,039
Speaker 24: I as thought, Yeah, yeah, I'm aware of the belief.

1585
01:38:30,319 --> 01:38:34,399
I just wanted to kind of get that definition for anathema. Now,

1586
01:38:34,479 --> 01:38:36,520
I guess question for you when when you talk about

1587
01:38:36,560 --> 01:38:40,880
the infallibility of ecumenical councils, right, what do you refer

1588
01:38:40,960 --> 01:38:44,640
to specifically regarding the acumenical councils.

1589
01:38:44,319 --> 01:38:46,560
Speaker 10: That is impelled the dogmatic teachings?

1590
01:38:47,640 --> 01:38:50,119
Speaker 24: Okay, how do you separate between the canons that are

1591
01:38:50,199 --> 01:38:51,359
dogmatic in those that aren't.

1592
01:38:52,000 --> 01:38:54,520
Speaker 10: No, No, canons are not the dogmatic teachings of the

1593
01:38:54,640 --> 01:38:57,760
two separate things. Canons are church law. So that's applying

1594
01:38:57,920 --> 01:39:01,760
the principles to the time into the place. Those things

1595
01:39:01,760 --> 01:39:05,439
are flexible, they're binding, but they're not necessarily infallible. Because

1596
01:39:05,479 --> 01:39:08,279
it doesn't make sense to talk about infallibility for something

1597
01:39:08,359 --> 01:39:10,680
that's a temporal decision or judgment.

1598
01:39:11,840 --> 01:39:14,199
Speaker 24: Sure, can you like, I don't know, Let's say, in

1599
01:39:14,239 --> 01:39:17,359
the modern day, your bishop just completely disregard certain canons

1600
01:39:17,399 --> 01:39:18,760
for making medical councils.

1601
01:39:18,399 --> 01:39:19,000
Speaker 5: If they want it to.

1602
01:39:22,399 --> 01:39:24,680
Speaker 10: So, the bishops are the highest authority in the church,

1603
01:39:24,800 --> 01:39:27,439
and so they have the duty the job of applying

1604
01:39:27,560 --> 01:39:31,640
the canons and interpreting them. So yes, they can make mistakes,

1605
01:39:32,000 --> 01:39:34,960
but I don't think that the general attitude of the

1606
01:39:35,039 --> 01:39:37,720
bishops will be to completely discard the canons. They would

1607
01:39:37,760 --> 01:39:40,920
be looking at all the canons and then coming to

1608
01:39:41,000 --> 01:39:43,439
an assessment or a judgment on particular cases, which is

1609
01:39:43,520 --> 01:39:45,840
exactly what happens in the Orthox Church.

1610
01:39:47,000 --> 01:39:49,600
Speaker 24: Yeah, I mean, I understand there's the concept of economy

1611
01:39:49,880 --> 01:39:52,079
where you can there's a little bit of flexibility and

1612
01:39:52,119 --> 01:39:55,239
application as far as like the discipline for certain canons.

1613
01:39:56,199 --> 01:39:58,000
But what I've always been told is that you can't

1614
01:39:58,079 --> 01:40:02,239
just outright reject the cannon or never use it, like,

1615
01:40:02,319 --> 01:40:05,319
you have to find some sort of modern application of it.

1616
01:40:05,680 --> 01:40:07,479
Speaker 5: Would that be the case or am I mistaken in that?

1617
01:40:07,640 --> 01:40:09,479
Speaker 10: I mean, I don't even think that makes sense, given

1618
01:40:09,520 --> 01:40:12,600
that there's canons about places that no longer exist anymore. So,

1619
01:40:12,880 --> 01:40:16,479
I mean there's canons that relate to medieval social structure

1620
01:40:16,600 --> 01:40:20,239
that that priests can't ride horses because that was a

1621
01:40:20,319 --> 01:40:22,399
sign of nobility in the Middle Ages. So none of

1622
01:40:22,439 --> 01:40:23,359
that's relevant today.

1623
01:40:24,479 --> 01:40:27,359
Speaker 24: Okay, So I mean would you just be able to

1624
01:40:28,079 --> 01:40:29,960
I mean, you're saying the canons that are no longer

1625
01:40:30,199 --> 01:40:35,279
historically applicable, right, those aren't those aren't really a force anymore? Basically,

1626
01:40:36,279 --> 01:40:38,920
how would they be? Yeah, that's what I'm saying, Like

1627
01:40:39,039 --> 01:40:42,000
I would, I would agree with that point. But for instance,

1628
01:40:42,119 --> 01:40:45,520
within like nice A one, you have Canon eleven that

1629
01:40:45,600 --> 01:40:49,520
talks about two classifications of worshippers that no longer exist today.

1630
01:40:50,159 --> 01:40:52,840
How would we kind of reconcile that with the modern

1631
01:40:52,880 --> 01:40:54,239
practice in the Eastern Orthodox Church?

1632
01:40:54,359 --> 01:40:56,000
Speaker 10: What do you mean that no longer exists?

1633
01:40:57,319 --> 01:41:00,399
Speaker 5: So it talks about cures and prosper readers.

1634
01:41:00,960 --> 01:41:03,680
Speaker 24: They're a separate classification from a catech human they would

1635
01:41:03,720 --> 01:41:05,079
be dismissed at the same time.

1636
01:41:05,760 --> 01:41:09,520
Speaker 5: But the context of the canon was basically that if

1637
01:41:09,560 --> 01:41:10,840
you were an apostle, say this.

1638
01:41:10,960 --> 01:41:15,039
Speaker 10: Is people who had given up the Gospels or had

1639
01:41:15,359 --> 01:41:19,439
fallen into some you know, serious error at the time

1640
01:41:19,520 --> 01:41:21,960
of persecution, right right.

1641
01:41:22,039 --> 01:41:24,479
Speaker 5: Yeah, they were apostates and this was an it's a

1642
01:41:24,600 --> 01:41:27,880
penance basically. Yeah, I'm sorry, I didn't hear that.

1643
01:41:27,960 --> 01:41:28,600
Speaker 10: It's a penance.

1644
01:41:29,439 --> 01:41:32,600
Speaker 5: It's a canon of penance and and teaching.

1645
01:41:33,479 --> 01:41:40,119
Speaker 13: So h where they're placed in the church, the prostrators,

1646
01:41:40,199 --> 01:41:44,840
the hearers is not only a pedagogical lesson of that

1647
01:41:45,039 --> 01:41:48,960
one's sin removes one farther out from Christ, so to

1648
01:41:49,119 --> 01:41:50,760
use the geography of the church.

1649
01:41:52,880 --> 01:41:56,079
Speaker 5: To teach the person that too. But it's a time

1650
01:41:56,119 --> 01:41:59,159
of penance, it's a it's a penitential yeah, right.

1651
01:41:59,119 --> 01:42:01,600
Speaker 10: So this isn't a example of the church being able

1652
01:42:01,680 --> 01:42:03,800
to bind and to loose, and so at that time,

1653
01:42:03,880 --> 01:42:07,359
the church decided, if you've committed this sin, then this

1654
01:42:07,640 --> 01:42:11,079
is the this is the penance. You're going to come

1655
01:42:11,119 --> 01:42:13,119
to church and you're going to do these prostrations and

1656
01:42:13,279 --> 01:42:15,760
then after two years you can commune.

1657
01:42:16,680 --> 01:42:16,920
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1658
01:42:17,119 --> 01:42:19,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm aware with that they would withhold the euchers

1659
01:42:19,800 --> 01:42:20,720
from them and things like that.

1660
01:42:21,039 --> 01:42:23,439
Speaker 10: Well that still happens in the Northwix Church today anyway.

1661
01:42:23,479 --> 01:42:26,399
So I feel like you're looking for the thing that

1662
01:42:26,479 --> 01:42:28,560
we actually literally addressed. I'm not trying to be rude

1663
01:42:28,560 --> 01:42:30,520
to you, but maybe thirty minutes ago in here, which

1664
01:42:30,600 --> 01:42:34,720
is that there's no way that law is intended to

1665
01:42:34,840 --> 01:42:38,520
be universally absolutely applicable in terms of canon law or

1666
01:42:38,600 --> 01:42:41,439
church law, or even the Old Testament penal sanctions. The

1667
01:42:41,560 --> 01:42:44,479
Old Testament case laws were case laws, where you have

1668
01:42:44,680 --> 01:42:47,159
the principle and then you apply the principle to the

1669
01:42:47,199 --> 01:42:50,840
specific case, as Solomon does. In many instances. The entire

1670
01:42:50,920 --> 01:42:53,600
history of the Church East and West prior to the

1671
01:42:53,680 --> 01:42:57,359
Reformation operated on the principle of canon law and the

1672
01:42:57,439 --> 01:43:00,520
bishops and the priests applying the canons. So I don't

1673
01:43:00,520 --> 01:43:03,119
I still don't understand. Your objection is basically, but the

1674
01:43:03,199 --> 01:43:05,920
canons are supposed to be infallible, aren't they who said that?

1675
01:43:06,039 --> 01:43:06,720
I never said that.

1676
01:43:07,840 --> 01:43:10,079
Speaker 24: No, no, no, I'm saying, how do you get away

1677
01:43:10,119 --> 01:43:13,039
with just getting rid of these two classification of worshipers

1678
01:43:13,119 --> 01:43:13,680
when they're.

1679
01:43:13,600 --> 01:43:14,600
Speaker 5: Listed within did I?

1680
01:43:14,680 --> 01:43:16,399
Speaker 10: Did you not hear everything I said about it being

1681
01:43:16,479 --> 01:43:17,079
time bound?

1682
01:43:17,239 --> 01:43:19,279
Speaker 5: I heard what you're saying.

1683
01:43:19,359 --> 01:43:22,199
Speaker 10: But do you and if you any Orthodox listen, any

1684
01:43:22,319 --> 01:43:24,880
Orthodox bishop you ask about these canons are going to

1685
01:43:24,920 --> 01:43:27,560
say that we don't have people who fallen under compulsion

1686
01:43:27,640 --> 01:43:30,600
under Roman emperors today. So how would we even apply

1687
01:43:30,720 --> 01:43:31,359
this principle?

1688
01:43:32,560 --> 01:43:35,560
Speaker 24: Okay, yeah, but the two classification of worshipper do you

1689
01:43:35,600 --> 01:43:38,039
think that only applies within that specific context there.

1690
01:43:39,159 --> 01:43:42,159
Speaker 10: I don't understand what you're talking about, the two classification.

1691
01:43:41,640 --> 01:43:44,920
Speaker 5: Of worshipper hearers and prostraters. I mean they weren't.

1692
01:43:45,000 --> 01:43:47,960
Speaker 10: This is a penalty for people who are either catechumans

1693
01:43:48,039 --> 01:43:50,479
or people who had committed the sin. There's still this

1694
01:43:50,760 --> 01:43:53,760
classification in the Orthodox Church today. You're either a baptized

1695
01:43:53,800 --> 01:43:57,359
communing person or you're a catechumen inquirer, or under some

1696
01:43:57,479 --> 01:43:59,119
penance that still exists today.

1697
01:44:00,399 --> 01:44:02,399
Speaker 24: Okay, I mean we can say, we can say it's

1698
01:44:02,479 --> 01:44:05,199
somewhat applied there in that particular content.

1699
01:44:05,560 --> 01:44:08,800
Speaker 10: Why do I But we are Orthodox, we know how

1700
01:44:08,840 --> 01:44:11,359
to apply these You have an Orthodox cleric on here

1701
01:44:11,399 --> 01:44:14,039
with you right now telling you how it's applied, and

1702
01:44:14,319 --> 01:44:16,800
you're going back and telling us that we don't follow

1703
01:44:16,880 --> 01:44:19,720
our own canons when you don't set the standard for

1704
01:44:19,800 --> 01:44:22,399
what it means for us to follow the canons. Your

1705
01:44:22,399 --> 01:44:25,359
whole argument is premised on the canons are infallible. And

1706
01:44:25,399 --> 01:44:27,159
when I from the outset said, I don't think that

1707
01:44:27,680 --> 01:44:30,199
that undermines the entire argument you're making because you're trying

1708
01:44:30,199 --> 01:44:32,479
to apply. You're trying to apply what you think is

1709
01:44:32,479 --> 01:44:34,800
a contradiction of the canons. And I already said from

1710
01:44:34,800 --> 01:44:37,039
the outset that canons are a time bound They're not.

1711
01:44:37,239 --> 01:44:38,399
They can't they think that.

1712
01:44:38,600 --> 01:44:40,439
Speaker 5: Do you think that was the understanding of the early

1713
01:44:40,560 --> 01:44:41,760
Church in reference to the canons?

1714
01:44:41,800 --> 01:44:44,640
Speaker 10: Though, of course because they change. For example, the pentarchy

1715
01:44:44,800 --> 01:44:49,199
is not there at at uh, the way the pentarchyt

1716
01:44:49,199 --> 01:44:51,560
is listed in Canon six of Nicea is not the

1717
01:44:51,600 --> 01:44:55,600
same as the pentarchy after Constantinople one and after calclor.

1718
01:44:56,439 --> 01:44:59,279
Speaker 5: Okay, so what do you say when the subsequent.

1719
01:44:59,039 --> 01:45:00,520
Speaker 10: Do you hear what I said? It's going to blow

1720
01:45:00,560 --> 01:45:00,840
past that?

1721
01:45:01,880 --> 01:45:04,600
Speaker 24: Well you're saying you're saying, yes, they can be held

1722
01:45:04,640 --> 01:45:07,600
in certain context historical contexts if it doesn't exist anymore

1723
01:45:07,680 --> 01:45:09,119
than yeah, obviously these cannons.

1724
01:45:08,840 --> 01:45:10,199
Speaker 10: Aren't going to be helpful. Well did you hear what

1725
01:45:10,319 --> 01:45:12,199
I said? What was my example? Can you repeat it

1726
01:45:12,239 --> 01:45:12,399
to me?

1727
01:45:12,520 --> 01:45:13,239
Speaker 5: The pantarchy?

1728
01:45:13,840 --> 01:45:15,279
Speaker 10: Right is that there in Canon six?

1729
01:45:16,079 --> 01:45:19,159
Speaker 5: No, I understand things with historical contexts that are no

1730
01:45:19,319 --> 01:45:19,880
longer here.

1731
01:45:20,159 --> 01:45:24,199
Speaker 10: The canons have historical contexts. For example, Canon eight is

1732
01:45:24,279 --> 01:45:28,199
about the penalties of the cathari the PERFECTI right at

1733
01:45:28,239 --> 01:45:32,439
this do we have cathari around No? Obviously notolutly so.

1734
01:45:32,680 --> 01:45:36,000
So because we don't apply the canon ad to the Cathariye,

1735
01:45:36,439 --> 01:45:39,199
we don't follow the canons, and that we contradict that's

1736
01:45:39,199 --> 01:45:39,680
the argument.

1737
01:45:40,520 --> 01:45:42,840
Speaker 24: Well, no, the the argument is more than I don't

1738
01:45:42,840 --> 01:45:44,920
think the early Church held that kind of distinction that.

1739
01:45:44,960 --> 01:45:47,119
Speaker 10: You're you're kind of imputable, what kind of what kind of.

1740
01:45:47,119 --> 01:45:49,520
Speaker 5: Distinction between the canons?

1741
01:45:49,640 --> 01:45:51,720
Speaker 24: Basically saying that, well, you can hold to some of

1742
01:45:51,800 --> 01:45:54,119
them for specific time and then just you know, reject

1743
01:45:54,119 --> 01:45:55,560
them later or no longer apply them.

1744
01:45:55,600 --> 01:45:58,119
Speaker 10: Who do you Who do you think interpreted the canons

1745
01:45:58,159 --> 01:45:58,960
in those centuries?

1746
01:46:00,159 --> 01:46:01,760
Speaker 5: I mean the people in the early Church, right, so

1747
01:46:01,960 --> 01:46:02,880
the bishops.

1748
01:46:02,720 --> 01:46:07,119
Speaker 10: The bishops. Okay, So when Canon six tells you that

1749
01:46:07,800 --> 01:46:12,159
there's three ancient customs, or let the ancient customs in Egypt, Libyan,

1750
01:46:12,199 --> 01:46:16,720
Pentapolis prevail that the Bishop of Alexandria is second after

1751
01:46:16,760 --> 01:46:24,560
the Bishop of Rome and after the second, fourth, fifth,

1752
01:46:24,640 --> 01:46:27,960
and sixth econmenical councils. When Rome accepts a change in

1753
01:46:28,079 --> 01:46:30,199
the listing of the patriarchts, how does that not prove

1754
01:46:30,279 --> 01:46:33,680
my position? I don't care if you you may think

1755
01:46:33,680 --> 01:46:38,000
it's inconsistent, but does it not admit my point that

1756
01:46:38,159 --> 01:46:40,880
the canons have flexibility, That.

1757
01:46:40,960 --> 01:46:45,000
Speaker 24: They have flexibility because there's certain historical details.

1758
01:46:45,079 --> 01:46:46,840
Speaker 5: Are I guess different.

1759
01:46:47,760 --> 01:46:51,760
Speaker 10: It's not historical details. It's a change in the structure

1760
01:46:51,880 --> 01:46:55,760
of how many patriarchates there are from three to pentarchy.

1761
01:46:56,800 --> 01:46:59,520
Speaker 5: Right, it's it's in addition to the prior, just like when.

1762
01:46:59,439 --> 01:47:01,640
Speaker 10: You're it's a change. No, it's not. It's a change

1763
01:47:01,680 --> 01:47:05,880
of the order. The order that Leo fusses about at

1764
01:47:06,000 --> 01:47:11,319
Chalcedon is that it violates the tradition for the second

1765
01:47:11,520 --> 01:47:17,560
in order, which was Alexandria, because the Canon gave Constantinople

1766
01:47:17,680 --> 01:47:22,079
second place. So eventually Rome concedes to that and accepts

1767
01:47:22,479 --> 01:47:26,239
Constantinople a second in order after in the pentarchy.

1768
01:47:26,920 --> 01:47:31,640
Speaker 13: So what Jay's argument is is that the canons can change,

1769
01:47:31,760 --> 01:47:34,960
not just because there's nothing for them to apply.

1770
01:47:34,840 --> 01:47:40,159
Speaker 5: To anymore, but even when those things still exist, the bishops.

1771
01:47:39,720 --> 01:47:43,680
Speaker 13: Have the authority they write the canons and guidelines on

1772
01:47:43,840 --> 01:47:45,439
how to do that. The other one, too, is going

1773
01:47:45,520 --> 01:47:49,560
to say, too, is the canons change.

1774
01:47:50,920 --> 01:47:52,000
Speaker 5: In the council.

1775
01:47:52,119 --> 01:47:55,319
Speaker 13: I see you as far as defining the changing the

1776
01:47:55,399 --> 01:47:57,880
role of the deacon too. He can have a different

1777
01:47:58,000 --> 01:48:06,479
role prior to I see event, but deacons existed, so

1778
01:48:06,640 --> 01:48:09,920
it wasn't like all the times changed. The bishops literally

1779
01:48:10,119 --> 01:48:14,079
have the authority to go, we're not going to use that,

1780
01:48:14,159 --> 01:48:18,239
We're going to actually change the guidelines and rules on Now.

1781
01:48:18,479 --> 01:48:20,479
Speaker 10: Let me give you another example. Not only does the

1782
01:48:20,520 --> 01:48:24,279
pentarchy evolve and change in its numbering, structure, and ordering

1783
01:48:24,399 --> 01:48:28,159
because Constantinople takes the place of Alexandria a second eventually

1784
01:48:28,600 --> 01:48:31,760
because it's a Sonodyl decision. Canon eighty five of the

1785
01:48:32,119 --> 01:48:36,359
Apostolic Canons has a different canon of scripture that was

1786
01:48:36,439 --> 01:48:42,039
normative in the East that eventually nobody held to, so a.

1787
01:48:42,079 --> 01:48:46,319
Speaker 24: Different, a different canon of scripture. So I guess, I

1788
01:48:46,399 --> 01:48:48,680
mean I can kind of agree that makes sense as

1789
01:48:48,760 --> 01:48:52,680
far as the subsequent ecumenical councils introducing canons that maybe

1790
01:48:52,880 --> 01:48:57,479
update things from prior from prior councils, like I can

1791
01:48:57,640 --> 01:48:59,520
understand that, like it's been okay, well you know what

1792
01:48:59,560 --> 01:49:00,920
we're actually we're updating this.

1793
01:49:01,159 --> 01:49:02,119
Speaker 5: It's detailed here.

1794
01:49:02,880 --> 01:49:06,239
Speaker 24: The issue is when you come to canons of ecumenical

1795
01:49:06,279 --> 01:49:09,359
councils that don't have that kind of decree afterwards, and.

1796
01:49:09,399 --> 01:49:11,520
Speaker 10: Then they're just so this is this is an arbitrary

1797
01:49:11,520 --> 01:49:13,840
you're just arbitrarily coming up with your own new Protestant

1798
01:49:13,880 --> 01:49:16,600
standard that now there must be a specific degree afterwards.

1799
01:49:16,680 --> 01:49:18,119
This says the Protestant position here.

1800
01:49:18,840 --> 01:49:20,880
Speaker 5: Well, I mean we're having a conversation about it.

1801
01:49:21,039 --> 01:49:23,479
Speaker 10: Might so you moved the goalpost, is what you did.

1802
01:49:24,119 --> 01:49:26,119
Speaker 5: Well, my particular issue with it.

1803
01:49:26,279 --> 01:49:30,399
Speaker 10: But you moved the goalpost, Okay, I mean my particularly

1804
01:49:30,479 --> 01:49:33,399
so hold on. So originally it was a specific argument

1805
01:49:33,439 --> 01:49:35,760
that I addressed with two examples, and now you've moved

1806
01:49:35,760 --> 01:49:38,319
the goalpost that it has to meet another standard that

1807
01:49:38,399 --> 01:49:40,600
you've tacked on. Where do you get the idea that

1808
01:49:40,720 --> 01:49:44,279
there has to be a specific canon, specifically reversing a

1809
01:49:44,399 --> 01:49:47,840
canon that you just interjected here because you move the goalpost?

1810
01:49:48,279 --> 01:49:49,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, no worries.

1811
01:49:49,199 --> 01:49:52,960
Speaker 24: So we're talking about subsequent acumenical councils and their canons.

1812
01:49:53,000 --> 01:49:56,159
I mean canon want of chalsea On literally affirms that

1813
01:49:56,399 --> 01:49:59,560
every canon of the prior sentence even until now, should

1814
01:49:59,560 --> 01:50:00,279
remain worse.

1815
01:50:00,880 --> 01:50:02,720
Speaker 10: Yeah, but who applies and interprets them?

1816
01:50:03,399 --> 01:50:06,079
Speaker 5: Sure the bishop? Yeah, based on the principle of economia.

1817
01:50:07,840 --> 01:50:11,199
Speaker 10: Yeah, so even that is not a universal unqualified statement

1818
01:50:11,279 --> 01:50:14,960
because calciled on itself itself is subject to later revision

1819
01:50:15,000 --> 01:50:15,600
in the Canons.

1820
01:50:16,399 --> 01:50:20,199
Speaker 24: Sure, I mean I wouldn't necessarily say that under economia,

1821
01:50:20,279 --> 01:50:21,319
you can't just hate.

1822
01:50:21,399 --> 01:50:24,760
Speaker 10: Okay, But like number one, bro, we were not even

1823
01:50:24,840 --> 01:50:26,880
concerned with what you think about it because you're not

1824
01:50:27,000 --> 01:50:29,640
in our church. You're not you're you're a Protestant. You're

1825
01:50:29,680 --> 01:50:32,239
not gonna tell us what's necessary for the canons. As

1826
01:50:32,279 --> 01:50:35,600
if we have to respect what you're saying when you

1827
01:50:35,760 --> 01:50:36,800
just move the goalpost.

1828
01:50:37,439 --> 01:50:39,760
Speaker 24: Well, I mean, I'm just talking, I'm just citing the

1829
01:50:39,840 --> 01:50:42,680
ecumenical councils. I'm not even really concerned with my opinion here.

1830
01:50:43,479 --> 01:50:45,000
I'm just we're just having a conversation.

1831
01:50:45,119 --> 01:50:45,560
Speaker 5: Is that Okay?

1832
01:50:45,760 --> 01:50:50,319
Speaker 10: Again, the statement every ecumenical council usually begins with a

1833
01:50:50,439 --> 01:50:53,279
statement that we hold to the traditions and the teachings

1834
01:50:53,319 --> 01:50:55,960
of all the fathers in the previous councils. But that

1835
01:50:56,199 --> 01:50:59,159
wording in that language is not meant in some sort

1836
01:50:59,199 --> 01:51:03,560
of universal exclusion of sense, as if individual bishops didn't

1837
01:51:03,600 --> 01:51:07,439
themselves interpret and apply the canons. For example, individual bishops

1838
01:51:07,479 --> 01:51:10,279
interpret and apply the canons in the early Church about

1839
01:51:10,319 --> 01:51:13,319
how to receive converts, hence why converts were received in

1840
01:51:13,399 --> 01:51:16,159
different ways from different groups and from different sects. So

1841
01:51:16,319 --> 01:51:18,880
your whole argument just keeps moving the goalposts to show

1842
01:51:19,000 --> 01:51:22,760
that there's some contradiction in canons, when the very third

1843
01:51:22,800 --> 01:51:24,000
first thing I said to you when you came on

1844
01:51:24,119 --> 01:51:28,520
here was that, now, the canons are not themselves universally applicably,

1845
01:51:28,680 --> 01:51:32,159
infallibly determined things. They're time bound. And I've given you

1846
01:51:32,279 --> 01:51:36,159
two examples, and you've moved the goalpost to salvage your argument.

1847
01:51:37,079 --> 01:51:38,800
Speaker 24: Well, I mean, can I can I just kind of

1848
01:51:38,840 --> 01:51:41,279
repeat back what you said there so I don't misrepresent you,

1849
01:51:42,479 --> 01:51:43,000
all right.

1850
01:51:42,920 --> 01:51:44,880
Speaker 5: So correct me if I'm wrong.

1851
01:51:45,039 --> 01:51:47,359
Speaker 24: But you're saying that, well, one, there's the claim of

1852
01:51:47,399 --> 01:51:49,319
the move the goalpost, but I'll just send that aside

1853
01:51:49,359 --> 01:51:53,680
for now that the bishop has the right to interpret

1854
01:51:53,880 --> 01:51:57,000
and judge using the canons, right, so they one, they

1855
01:51:57,079 --> 01:51:57,720
interpret them.

1856
01:51:57,760 --> 01:52:00,039
Speaker 5: So if they want to move that into a modern context.

1857
01:51:59,800 --> 01:52:01,920
Speaker 10: Rather it's Chalcedon, it's not Chalcedon.

1858
01:52:02,520 --> 01:52:06,920
Speaker 24: Okay, Well, they can they can interpret and apply judgments

1859
01:52:07,000 --> 01:52:09,560
based on the principle of economia they want to.

1860
01:52:10,800 --> 01:52:13,000
Speaker 5: However they want to apply them, they can't. Is that correct?

1861
01:52:13,840 --> 01:52:16,680
Speaker 10: What specific argument did I give, I did talk about that,

1862
01:52:16,800 --> 01:52:18,359
but what specific argument did I give you?

1863
01:52:19,199 --> 01:52:22,720
Speaker 24: Uh, you're talking about the your well, or you gave

1864
01:52:22,760 --> 01:52:24,920
a couple of different arguments, which one you gave the

1865
01:52:25,000 --> 01:52:29,359
Pentarchy earlier about an updated canon.

1866
01:52:30,640 --> 01:52:34,520
Speaker 10: M and then I give another argument about what what

1867
01:52:34,880 --> 01:52:35,399
am I missing?

1868
01:52:35,479 --> 01:52:36,119
Speaker 5: Jake? I'm sorry.

1869
01:52:36,680 --> 01:52:39,680
Speaker 10: The second argument was that the Apostolic Canons, which were

1870
01:52:39,720 --> 01:52:42,760
the normative church law in the East in the three hundreds,

1871
01:52:43,479 --> 01:52:46,000
they have a canon of scripture that was used throughout

1872
01:52:46,039 --> 01:52:49,640
the East that eventually is not accepted.

1873
01:52:50,079 --> 01:52:53,239
Speaker 5: Okay, okay, and that was not updated in any other

1874
01:52:53,359 --> 01:52:54,359
canon later on.

1875
01:52:55,680 --> 01:52:58,960
Speaker 10: Well, it's accepted at the Seventh Ecumentical Council and at Trollo,

1876
01:52:59,279 --> 01:53:01,600
but it is not accepted in Toto in terms of

1877
01:53:01,640 --> 01:53:02,159
its canon.

1878
01:53:03,279 --> 01:53:04,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, so is it? It's accepted.

1879
01:53:05,359 --> 01:53:08,920
Speaker 10: We have a flexibility that you are not allowing us have,

1880
01:53:09,199 --> 01:53:11,199
and you're trying to figure out ways that we don't

1881
01:53:11,199 --> 01:53:13,640
have this flexibility. And I've already given you three examples

1882
01:53:13,680 --> 01:53:14,399
of flexibility.

1883
01:53:15,239 --> 01:53:15,560
Speaker 5: Okay.

1884
01:53:15,840 --> 01:53:19,760
Speaker 24: Well, I mean this entire argument and discussion kind of

1885
01:53:19,840 --> 01:53:23,479
hinges on whether or not we can outright not enforce canons.

1886
01:53:23,800 --> 01:53:26,840
Speaker 10: No, yeah, no, it doesn't. It hinges on your uh

1887
01:53:27,600 --> 01:53:30,600
moving the goalpost proof of what it means to enforce

1888
01:53:30,680 --> 01:53:34,159
the canons and showing a supposed contradiction in that enforcement.

1889
01:53:34,640 --> 01:53:37,039
And I've already given you three examples that refute your

1890
01:53:37,079 --> 01:53:39,159
first premise, And so you move the goalpost to say

1891
01:53:39,159 --> 01:53:39,880
that there has to be.

1892
01:53:40,439 --> 01:53:43,039
Speaker 5: Of canons that have been updated in subsequent acumenity.

1893
01:53:43,239 --> 01:53:47,600
Speaker 10: That's you. You already asserted something that is your Protestant

1894
01:53:47,680 --> 01:53:50,199
moving the goalpost that I don't know where that is

1895
01:53:50,680 --> 01:53:52,760
because just saying at the beginning of a council that

1896
01:53:52,840 --> 01:53:55,800
we hold uphold the previous canons, that doesn't prove that

1897
01:53:56,399 --> 01:54:00,720
every single canon is universally applicable, because Calciton Saddan doesn't

1898
01:54:00,760 --> 01:54:02,880
uphold Canon six of Nicia.

1899
01:54:03,199 --> 01:54:04,600
Speaker 5: Well, how do you how do you know when they're

1900
01:54:04,640 --> 01:54:05,600
no longer applicable?

1901
01:54:07,800 --> 01:54:11,399
Speaker 10: If you're talking about the specific examples in the first

1902
01:54:11,479 --> 01:54:15,239
thousand years, then they're applied in specific times in specific

1903
01:54:15,319 --> 01:54:17,880
cases after the fact, and we would have some record

1904
01:54:17,880 --> 01:54:20,199
of that. If you're talking about nowadays, you can simply

1905
01:54:20,239 --> 01:54:22,560
go ask the Orthodox bishop how they apply the canons.

1906
01:54:22,680 --> 01:54:25,000
And father deacon you're here, could you speak to how

1907
01:54:25,079 --> 01:54:27,239
the cannons are applied by bishops? You have a bishop

1908
01:54:27,279 --> 01:54:28,840
that applies canons to situations.

1909
01:54:31,960 --> 01:54:33,560
Speaker 5: Well, particularly.

1910
01:54:35,079 --> 01:54:38,680
Speaker 13: This issue came up just recently on I think a

1911
01:54:38,800 --> 01:54:44,279
church thread that the bishop, you're the local bishop.

1912
01:54:44,600 --> 01:54:47,239
Speaker 5: That's his area. He knows his flocks, he.

1913
01:54:47,279 --> 01:54:51,079
Speaker 13: Knows his diocese, and so he's in the best position

1914
01:54:51,239 --> 01:54:57,680
qualified to apply canons and how he would apply it. Again,

1915
01:54:58,479 --> 01:55:03,000
it's very much like you know, secular law borrows from that.

1916
01:55:04,720 --> 01:55:07,920
Speaker 5: Each judge. So you have the rules on the rule book.

1917
01:55:10,880 --> 01:55:14,000
Those aren't binding on the judge that like, well, I

1918
01:55:14,239 --> 01:55:15,800
have to do it, and I have to do it

1919
01:55:15,880 --> 01:55:16,439
in this way.

1920
01:55:17,279 --> 01:55:19,520
Speaker 13: A judge could look at a case and apply grace

1921
01:55:19,600 --> 01:55:22,079
and be like, I'm not applying the law. I'm not

1922
01:55:22,199 --> 01:55:25,920
following this. I'm I'm going to do this degree in

1923
01:55:26,000 --> 01:55:28,600
this way or something like this, or add something to.

1924
01:55:30,239 --> 01:55:36,960
Speaker 5: They're the authorities. They're the legal authorities to change a canon. Now,

1925
01:55:37,000 --> 01:55:40,359
of course, again if they could do that.

1926
01:55:40,479 --> 01:55:44,800
Speaker 13: Incorrectly in terms of discernment, but that's also.

1927
01:55:44,600 --> 01:55:48,840
Speaker 5: Why we're conciliar. Like other bishops could address that, that

1928
01:55:48,960 --> 01:55:51,439
could go to for example, synod to.

1929
01:55:51,560 --> 01:55:54,840
Speaker 13: Address who was a big enough issue or could be

1930
01:55:54,880 --> 01:55:58,520
even handled just in a brotherly way of another bishop

1931
01:55:58,600 --> 01:56:01,079
contacting and so saying, hey, I don't think that was.

1932
01:56:01,079 --> 01:56:02,279
Speaker 5: A good idea, et cetera.

1933
01:56:02,800 --> 01:56:08,359
Speaker 13: But they're literally the authorities to change a canon attic.

1934
01:56:09,079 --> 01:56:12,760
Speaker 5: You know how they apply it, not apply it. That's

1935
01:56:12,840 --> 01:56:13,239
what it is.

1936
01:56:13,399 --> 01:56:15,600
Speaker 10: If you look at canon, point out is that.

1937
01:56:15,560 --> 01:56:16,880
Speaker 5: That's very different.

1938
01:56:17,520 --> 01:56:22,600
Speaker 13: The pragmatic and church etiquette and practical things are different

1939
01:56:22,640 --> 01:56:23,960
than dogmatic issues.

1940
01:56:24,520 --> 01:56:28,520
Speaker 5: They might relate and overlap at times, but they're the authorities.

1941
01:56:28,680 --> 01:56:29,920
They can do that.

1942
01:56:30,800 --> 01:56:33,199
Speaker 10: Yeah, to give you an example, Canon one oh two

1943
01:56:33,359 --> 01:56:38,720
of Trollo states that various priests and bishops can, at

1944
01:56:38,800 --> 01:56:44,119
their discretion titan or loosen the canonical prescriptions.

1945
01:56:44,600 --> 01:56:47,399
Speaker 5: Sure, yeah, I mean I don't have any particular issue

1946
01:56:47,439 --> 01:56:49,039
with that, and I appreciate that response.

1947
01:56:49,760 --> 01:56:53,319
Speaker 10: And eye, what I just said about Canon one o

1948
01:56:53,399 --> 01:56:55,960
two is precisely the thing that you have had issue

1949
01:56:56,000 --> 01:56:56,840
with the entire time.

1950
01:56:57,479 --> 01:57:00,720
Speaker 24: Yeah, Well, the the issue is an individual bish not

1951
01:57:01,039 --> 01:57:02,680
applying particular canons.

1952
01:57:02,720 --> 01:57:04,800
Speaker 10: Now, this says that they have the ability to loosen

1953
01:57:04,920 --> 01:57:08,359
them or to tighten them because they have the ability

1954
01:57:08,439 --> 01:57:10,479
to remit and retain sense. They have the office of

1955
01:57:10,520 --> 01:57:13,079
the keys. It's not the canons that are the keys.

1956
01:57:13,560 --> 01:57:15,560
The bishop has the office of the keys to apply

1957
01:57:15,720 --> 01:57:18,560
the law. Just like he said, the judge is not

1958
01:57:18,800 --> 01:57:20,760
the slave to the law. The judge applies to the

1959
01:57:20,800 --> 01:57:21,720
law and makes a ruling.

1960
01:57:23,399 --> 01:57:27,039
Speaker 24: Okay, So in the in the case of individual bishop,

1961
01:57:27,119 --> 01:57:29,079
you're saying they get tighten, they can loosen, so they

1962
01:57:29,119 --> 01:57:31,680
can basically say that these canons are no longer applicable.

1963
01:57:32,199 --> 01:57:36,359
But if that if that's the case, right, what if

1964
01:57:36,399 --> 01:57:39,479
it's applied to I don't know every every bishop not

1965
01:57:39,600 --> 01:57:41,880
applying a canon for a specific period of time.

1966
01:57:41,960 --> 01:57:44,319
Speaker 5: I mean maybe like five or six hundred years.

1967
01:57:45,079 --> 01:57:47,000
Speaker 10: I don't even know, don't I mean again, I don't

1968
01:57:47,000 --> 01:57:47,960
even know what you're talking about.

1969
01:57:49,039 --> 01:57:50,239
Speaker 5: So we're talking about.

1970
01:57:50,399 --> 01:57:54,199
Speaker 10: Your whole attitude is the Protestant Sola scripture attitude applied

1971
01:57:54,239 --> 01:57:56,359
to canon law. And the first thing I told you

1972
01:57:56,479 --> 01:57:58,520
is that we don't have that attitude. You can have

1973
01:57:58,600 --> 01:58:01,159
that attitude, and you can go and make this argument

1974
01:58:01,199 --> 01:58:03,680
all day long and keep ignoring the things that I'm saying,

1975
01:58:04,319 --> 01:58:06,880
but we don't have that attitude. So you can keep saying,

1976
01:58:06,960 --> 01:58:09,319
but you should have that attitude because the Canon. You're

1977
01:58:09,439 --> 01:58:13,159
arguing that the councils have your Protestant attitude, and they don't.

1978
01:58:13,199 --> 01:58:14,840
None of them are Protestant No.

1979
01:58:15,000 --> 01:58:17,199
Speaker 24: What I'm arguing is, what do you do in a

1980
01:58:17,279 --> 01:58:21,279
situation in which no bishop upholds a canon for hundreds

1981
01:58:21,319 --> 01:58:22,199
and hundreds of years?

1982
01:58:22,439 --> 01:58:23,840
Speaker 5: Like? What? Oh?

1983
01:58:23,920 --> 01:58:26,640
Speaker 10: Bishops like what canon?

1984
01:58:27,800 --> 01:58:28,000
Speaker 25: Well?

1985
01:58:28,119 --> 01:58:31,119
Speaker 24: One like, okay, let's use Truelo because we've brought that

1986
01:58:31,239 --> 01:58:31,840
up Patrolo.

1987
01:58:31,920 --> 01:58:34,840
Speaker 5: However you want to pronounce it, right, I know you've.

1988
01:58:34,760 --> 01:58:37,199
Speaker 24: Dealt with this canon before in the past, but the

1989
01:58:37,279 --> 01:58:39,920
one where it's talking about you can't have familiar intercourse

1990
01:58:40,000 --> 01:58:44,119
with a Brazilian right, those particular ones you know I'm

1991
01:58:44,119 --> 01:58:46,039
talking about insert.

1992
01:58:46,560 --> 01:58:48,119
Speaker 5: The J word, I can't really talk about on it.

1993
01:58:48,279 --> 01:58:51,000
Speaker 10: Well, So again, if I had told you at the

1994
01:58:51,039 --> 01:58:54,399
beginning that the canons are time bound and not infallible,

1995
01:58:54,600 --> 01:58:58,439
that immediately refutes every argument you've met ever since that point,

1996
01:58:59,359 --> 01:59:01,640
because your whole argument is premised on that they're infallible.

1997
01:59:02,119 --> 01:59:04,920
Speaker 24: So they're time bound. They're time bound and not infallible.

1998
01:59:05,000 --> 01:59:06,239
When's their expiration date?

1999
01:59:06,239 --> 01:59:11,880
Speaker 10: Then again there is no Yeah, it's the that's what

2000
01:59:12,119 --> 01:59:12,560
they said.

2001
01:59:12,640 --> 01:59:17,039
Speaker 13: The canons are not over the bishops, that they're not

2002
01:59:17,239 --> 01:59:20,600
slaves to the canon law.

2003
01:59:21,479 --> 01:59:23,239
Speaker 5: They are the creators of canon law.

2004
01:59:23,439 --> 01:59:26,479
Speaker 10: Yeah, are you are you aware that secular law works

2005
01:59:26,520 --> 01:59:28,560
the same way the same point you made a minute ago.

2006
01:59:29,880 --> 01:59:32,399
Sure so, sure, so let me blow past that. I

2007
01:59:32,399 --> 01:59:35,640
don't ignore everything they just said and restatement trying to repeat.

2008
01:59:35,359 --> 01:59:36,399
Speaker 5: What you said back to me.

2009
01:59:37,479 --> 01:59:41,199
Speaker 24: So you're saying that basically, the individual bishop, he's the

2010
01:59:41,359 --> 01:59:42,880
arbiter of when they apply when they.

2011
01:59:42,800 --> 01:59:45,359
Speaker 10: Don't write, there is no higher authority in the church

2012
01:59:45,600 --> 01:59:48,159
than the bishop. It's not the lay people, and it's

2013
01:59:48,199 --> 01:59:50,880
not the it's not you that applies the canons, it's

2014
01:59:50,920 --> 01:59:51,399
the bishop.

2015
01:59:51,800 --> 01:59:54,720
Speaker 24: Okay, are they so they are the arbiter of when

2016
01:59:54,800 --> 01:59:56,920
the canons apply in individual cases?

2017
01:59:57,119 --> 01:59:57,520
Speaker 10: Correct?

2018
01:59:58,159 --> 02:00:00,640
Speaker 24: Okay, but what about over the entire church when they're

2019
02:00:00,640 --> 02:00:02,000
no longer applied, So then there's no.

2020
02:00:02,640 --> 02:00:05,319
Speaker 5: They can do that. But that's what we're saying. They

2021
02:00:05,399 --> 02:00:07,600
have the authority to do that, not apply any of

2022
02:00:07,720 --> 02:00:08,119
all of them.

2023
02:00:08,840 --> 02:00:12,399
Speaker 24: Okay, So when acumenical councils confirm all of the canons

2024
02:00:12,399 --> 02:00:13,800
of the prior councils, right.

2025
02:00:13,800 --> 02:00:17,159
Speaker 10: Again, we just addressed that, and the universal language does

2026
02:00:17,279 --> 02:00:20,359
not always mean universally because of the fact that they

2027
02:00:20,520 --> 02:00:23,840
actually change over time. So you just keep repeating your

2028
02:00:23,880 --> 02:00:26,279
same argument and going in a circle which you've already addressed.

2029
02:00:27,520 --> 02:00:28,560
Speaker 5: Okay, I mean.

2030
02:00:29,960 --> 02:00:31,720
Speaker 10: I just read to you Canon one O two that

2031
02:00:31,840 --> 02:00:35,720
tells you that the local bishop can relax the cannons

2032
02:00:35,760 --> 02:00:37,720
and interpret them as he sees fit. And then you're

2033
02:00:37,760 --> 02:00:42,199
just repeating your same argument for the tenth time. Okay, yeah, okay,

2034
02:00:42,319 --> 02:00:44,000
well but let me repeat my argument again.

2035
02:00:46,079 --> 02:00:50,880
Speaker 5: So he has the individual ability to bind or to

2036
02:00:51,039 --> 02:00:54,840
lose the canons? Does he have the individual ability to

2037
02:00:54,960 --> 02:00:57,000
just say that it? So you're basically.

2038
02:00:56,720 --> 02:00:58,840
Speaker 10: Saying that what do you think binding? And Lucy means yeah,

2039
02:00:58,920 --> 02:01:02,319
he can say that that doesn't linenymore, a priest can

2040
02:01:02,399 --> 02:01:04,560
go ride a horse because we don't live in the

2041
02:01:04,560 --> 02:01:07,159
Middle Ages anymore, where it forbade priest from doing what

2042
02:01:07,319 --> 02:01:11,399
nobility did that was to show in society. Yeah, we

2043
02:01:11,439 --> 02:01:13,479
don't have any Why are you interrupting me? Man, I'm

2044
02:01:13,520 --> 02:01:16,560
giving you clear examples that show that we don't follow

2045
02:01:16,720 --> 02:01:19,239
every single cannon and your whole argument is just that

2046
02:01:20,199 --> 02:01:22,960
you're bound to it like a Protestant would view the scriptures.

2047
02:01:24,680 --> 02:01:27,920
Speaker 24: Okay, So you're saying that the bishop themselves can say

2048
02:01:27,960 --> 02:01:28,399
whether or not.

2049
02:01:28,520 --> 02:01:30,560
Speaker 10: Okay, this is about the tenth time that we've answered

2050
02:01:30,600 --> 02:01:32,479
this question, and if you're going to keep being up

2051
02:01:32,520 --> 02:01:35,840
to so what's the point of Yes, how many times

2052
02:01:35,840 --> 02:01:37,159
do I have to tell you that the bishop can

2053
02:01:37,239 --> 02:01:39,079
determine these things? That's what we just said for the

2054
02:01:39,159 --> 02:01:39,560
fifth time.

2055
02:01:40,159 --> 02:01:44,199
Speaker 24: Yeah, in each individual case, man, in each individual case,

2056
02:01:44,199 --> 02:01:45,680
that's the economia.

2057
02:01:45,399 --> 02:01:48,239
Speaker 5: Right, but not whether or not you outright reject the canon.

2058
02:01:49,000 --> 02:01:51,079
Speaker 10: Uh No, that's exactly what they can do. They can

2059
02:01:51,159 --> 02:01:52,840
decide that canon no longer applies.

2060
02:01:54,039 --> 02:01:55,960
Speaker 5: Okay, no longer applies in perpetuity.

2061
02:01:57,079 --> 02:02:02,199
Speaker 10: Yeah, sure in this case, in this case, they have

2062
02:02:02,319 --> 02:02:04,760
that capability to say, right, this is so stupid. We're

2063
02:02:04,800 --> 02:02:06,680
not gonna I'm not undone. This is the dumbest thing

2064
02:02:06,680 --> 02:02:09,159
I've ever had to deal with. This is so stupid.

2065
02:02:12,000 --> 02:02:13,840
Speaker 5: It doesn't need to be document That's how the.

2066
02:02:13,880 --> 02:02:16,239
Speaker 10: T that's that's why he's moving the goalpost for the

2067
02:02:16,319 --> 02:02:19,399
fifth time. Where is the documented case that a bishop

2068
02:02:19,439 --> 02:02:22,199
can actually say that it's not for binding and loosing

2069
02:02:22,319 --> 02:02:24,720
means that he knows when to apply or not apply.

2070
02:02:25,359 --> 02:02:33,920
Not apply means that it's not bound bound anymore. Go ahead,

2071
02:02:35,800 --> 02:02:36,880
last call Bain, what's up?

2072
02:02:37,800 --> 02:02:38,439
Speaker 5: Hey? What's up?

2073
02:02:39,479 --> 02:02:43,119
Speaker 22: So when I'm having I have two questions, First, too

2074
02:02:43,199 --> 02:02:45,880
quickly the best resource that I can go to to

2075
02:02:45,920 --> 02:02:47,159
re learn about the photi and.

2076
02:02:47,199 --> 02:02:54,760
Speaker 10: Schism mistigougy of photos, okay, mistagogy.

2077
02:02:54,239 --> 02:02:58,520
Speaker 22: Of photos and uh so when I'm like debating arguing

2078
02:02:58,920 --> 02:03:01,680
tag ver much like at the end, and I've gotten

2079
02:03:01,760 --> 02:03:05,039
to the atheist to admit all his knowledge is unjustified

2080
02:03:05,199 --> 02:03:08,600
circular and his response to being I can't discount that

2081
02:03:08,720 --> 02:03:10,920
I might not ever have a scientific answer in the future.

2082
02:03:10,960 --> 02:03:13,399
Speaker 5: And I respond with that premise doesn't.

2083
02:03:13,199 --> 02:03:14,640
Speaker 22: Do the grounding work for any knowledge that you have

2084
02:03:14,760 --> 02:03:18,560
now in the present moment, And it is there like

2085
02:03:18,680 --> 02:03:22,520
a better way to apply this to like, you know,

2086
02:03:23,119 --> 02:03:26,560
like round up the argument to say, Okay, so therefore,

2087
02:03:27,359 --> 02:03:32,079
because your worldview should result in knowledge being impossible, that

2088
02:03:32,239 --> 02:03:35,800
contradicts with you currently having knowledge, and for some reason

2089
02:03:35,880 --> 02:03:37,760
that's just not landing, Like, is there a better way

2090
02:03:37,800 --> 02:03:40,600
to like phrase this, you know, to like land.

2091
02:03:40,439 --> 02:03:41,119
Speaker 5: The argument there?

2092
02:03:44,000 --> 02:03:44,760
Speaker 10: You want to comment on that?

2093
02:03:45,439 --> 02:03:52,159
Speaker 5: Sorry, I'm not understanding. His response is what again, so

2094
02:03:52,279 --> 02:03:55,279
I don't have knowledge right now? Or I can't explain

2095
02:03:55,520 --> 02:03:56,000
not go ahead?

2096
02:03:56,800 --> 02:03:57,359
Speaker 10: Yeah, it's that.

2097
02:03:59,399 --> 02:04:02,119
Speaker 22: After he's admitted that all his knowledge is unjustified in

2098
02:04:02,199 --> 02:04:03,000
circular that his.

2099
02:04:03,119 --> 02:04:06,319
Speaker 5: Response being, but I can't discount that I might not

2100
02:04:06,439 --> 02:04:08,760
ever have a scientific answer in the future.

2101
02:04:09,039 --> 02:04:11,239
Speaker 22: After I've already demonstrated that's like a category enter in

2102
02:04:11,279 --> 02:04:13,479
the first place. And I tell them, well, that premise

2103
02:04:13,640 --> 02:04:16,319
in itself doesn't do the grounding work for any knowledge

2104
02:04:16,359 --> 02:04:18,279
that you have. Now, you know, you're just making an

2105
02:04:18,359 --> 02:04:20,479
argument from science in the future. And I don't know

2106
02:04:20,520 --> 02:04:22,399
if there's a better way that I can phrase this

2107
02:04:22,560 --> 02:04:23,600
to like really land.

2108
02:04:23,479 --> 02:04:26,239
Speaker 13: The argument of yeah, well, that's why I put it

2109
02:04:26,359 --> 02:04:31,359
in terms of accidentalism. It's not that just well, I'm ignorant.

2110
02:04:31,439 --> 02:04:34,560
I can't figure out a way how to justify the

2111
02:04:34,680 --> 02:04:38,439
existence of knowledge and account for it now on the

2112
02:04:38,560 --> 02:04:43,279
premise as an atheist on the assumption of accidentalism.

2113
02:04:43,840 --> 02:04:50,680
Speaker 5: There will be no explanation in the future because accident

2114
02:04:51,520 --> 02:04:52,920
is precluded.

2115
02:04:52,479 --> 02:04:57,399
Speaker 13: From the definition and concept of knowledge. So you can't

2116
02:04:58,119 --> 02:04:59,920
It doesn't matter how great your science can.

2117
02:05:00,079 --> 02:05:02,800
Speaker 5: It's like you, I'll go to school and I'll learn

2118
02:05:02,840 --> 02:05:04,840
a bunch of philosophy and stuff like that in the

2119
02:05:04,920 --> 02:05:06,319
future will come up with a good answer.

2120
02:05:07,000 --> 02:05:11,239
Speaker 13: It's not possible and principle because you can't appeal to

2121
02:05:11,319 --> 02:05:14,760
the thing that the thing excludes in order to explain

2122
02:05:14,880 --> 02:05:15,279
that thing.

2123
02:05:15,760 --> 02:05:18,119
Speaker 10: All right, Saw, I'm gonna have to interrupt gauzep to

2124
02:05:18,119 --> 02:05:19,800
go to church pretty soon, so we got we got

2125
02:05:19,880 --> 02:05:22,680
to finish this out here. Santo's human Is ten dollars.

2126
02:05:22,880 --> 02:05:25,439
Are there ten books that you recommend for learning Orthodox theology?

2127
02:05:26,279 --> 02:05:28,319
I have a video on that, so look up Top

2128
02:05:28,680 --> 02:05:32,279
Orthodox books jade ire Z one sixty five dollars. Can

2129
02:05:32,319 --> 02:05:35,840
you explain psa versus Orthodoxy? I have multiple videos on that.

2130
02:05:35,960 --> 02:05:37,960
Go check those out. Just look up jade ire Comma

2131
02:05:38,000 --> 02:05:41,359
substitutionary Atonement, penal substitution, Fish Tank Edit ten dollars. What

2132
02:05:41,439 --> 02:05:45,720
are your most fruitful works? Some of your most fruitful

2133
02:05:45,720 --> 02:05:48,239
works are about agnosticism and nihilism. Many young people are

2134
02:05:48,319 --> 02:05:51,399
so deeply like that that those need to be addressed.

2135
02:05:51,560 --> 02:05:54,119
Your review of sur from Rose Nihilism book was excellent.

2136
02:05:54,159 --> 02:05:56,039
Thank you you have people can still go check those out.

2137
02:05:56,079 --> 02:06:01,119
They're still up. So again, like another Protestant guy in

2138
02:06:01,159 --> 02:06:04,119
the chat is saying that guy had a good point.

2139
02:06:04,920 --> 02:06:08,960
He didn't have a good point. So the premise was

2140
02:06:09,039 --> 02:06:12,279
that you can never relax the canons. Relaxing the canons

2141
02:06:12,359 --> 02:06:17,680
means that they don't apply, and so he's assuming that

2142
02:06:18,560 --> 02:06:22,079
the ecumenical councils are laying down this sort of like

2143
02:06:24,439 --> 02:06:29,720
letter of the law attitude, that's literally impossible. It's not

2144
02:06:29,880 --> 02:06:34,279
possible to keep all the canons. It's literally not because

2145
02:06:34,319 --> 02:06:39,760
they're based on time bound historical situations. That doesn't mean

2146
02:06:39,800 --> 02:06:42,000
that they don't have any authority, but they're not equivalent

2147
02:06:42,039 --> 02:06:46,439
to divine revelation. Okay, they're the Church law, and just

2148
02:06:46,640 --> 02:06:50,680
like secular law, law has to be applied at the

2149
02:06:50,760 --> 02:06:53,640
right time and the right way by a virtuous man.

2150
02:06:54,640 --> 02:06:59,399
And every Protestant legalistic type of attitude would assume that

2151
02:07:00,159 --> 02:07:02,359
if there's not a written proof for this or that,

2152
02:07:03,119 --> 02:07:06,319
then there is no proof for this or that. But

2153
02:07:06,439 --> 02:07:08,920
there is no principle. In fact, the principle laid down

2154
02:07:08,960 --> 02:07:10,600
in Canon one oh two is the opposite of what

2155
02:07:10,720 --> 02:07:14,680
he said, that every single cannon is applicable until there

2156
02:07:14,760 --> 02:07:18,760
is a specific canon that makes it non applicable. That's

2157
02:07:18,840 --> 02:07:22,000
his own made up standard that he moved the goalpost

2158
02:07:22,079 --> 02:07:26,600
to when his original argument was in trouble. And if

2159
02:07:26,600 --> 02:07:29,439
you don't know what moving the goalpost is like, go

2160
02:07:29,640 --> 02:07:34,560
learn about that. Raziel twenty dollars graduate in law school.

2161
02:07:34,560 --> 02:07:37,119
I'm getting baptized Antiochian and I'll be married next month.

2162
02:07:37,239 --> 02:07:39,159
God bless you, Jay, you helped me get into the church,

2163
02:07:40,039 --> 02:07:42,560
pray as I struggle with pride and a heartened heart. Well,

2164
02:07:42,640 --> 02:07:45,159
glad to hear that. Razio many years to you Modern

2165
02:07:45,199 --> 02:07:48,079
Tree five dollars. How many times will you sigh when

2166
02:07:48,079 --> 02:07:51,520
you're debating not so erudite on the whatever show we'll

2167
02:07:51,560 --> 02:07:53,199
have to see? It's going to be a challenge Modo

2168
02:07:53,239 --> 02:07:56,960
gear solid five Canadian. God will bless you Jay. That

2169
02:07:57,079 --> 02:07:59,439
guy gives you strength. Thank you. Ze Marx's twenty dollars

2170
02:08:00,199 --> 02:08:02,680
to the guy who is fussing about the canons Trollo

2171
02:08:02,800 --> 02:08:05,199
Canon one oh two gives discretion to the clergy in

2172
02:08:05,279 --> 02:08:08,079
the application of the canons. Protestants always try to apply

2173
02:08:08,159 --> 02:08:11,359
this papal style rigidity to us, but Orthodox he has

2174
02:08:11,800 --> 02:08:15,239
built in flexibility in administrative manners. And that's exactly what

2175
02:08:15,319 --> 02:08:18,960
happens when you go to the Orthodox Church locally and

2176
02:08:19,079 --> 02:08:21,680
you see that it's applied in this flexible way. So

2177
02:08:22,199 --> 02:08:25,520
what he's talking about isn't even the actual reality that

2178
02:08:25,600 --> 02:08:28,760
we experience as Orthodox. But he's like, yeah, but the

2179
02:08:28,880 --> 02:08:31,560
canons are infallible, but they're not okay, But then they

2180
02:08:31,640 --> 02:08:34,359
have to be specifically canceled out by a new canon

2181
02:08:34,439 --> 02:08:37,439
that mentions it says who that's his new made up

2182
02:08:37,479 --> 02:08:41,920
standard that he just asserted was there. Alexis Valdez does

2183
02:08:42,000 --> 02:08:44,880
infant baptism count. I don't know what you mean by count,

2184
02:08:45,000 --> 02:08:51,279
but we believe in infant baptism as Orthodox. Gain orzilla

2185
02:08:51,319 --> 02:08:55,199
a twenty dollars if you missed my superchat without original guilt?

2186
02:08:55,279 --> 02:08:59,680
Why was God flooding the earth? He acknowledged to Abraham

2187
02:08:59,720 --> 02:09:03,159
it was unjust, but he was trying. But I'm trying

2188
02:09:03,159 --> 02:09:10,520
to forget. So all men are under the effects of

2189
02:09:10,600 --> 02:09:14,800
adam sin, and that includes death. So if you want

2190
02:09:14,840 --> 02:09:20,279
to say punishment in that sense, that's applicable, because our

2191
02:09:20,439 --> 02:09:24,560
death or our mortality is a punishment from the fall.

2192
02:09:25,199 --> 02:09:29,119
But that's different from actual sin, right, That's distinguished from

2193
02:09:29,159 --> 02:09:33,239
ancestral sin original sin. Actual sin is the specific sense

2194
02:09:33,239 --> 02:09:36,119
that you commit by your own will and intention when

2195
02:09:36,159 --> 02:09:40,439
you are of age. So again you have to distinguish

2196
02:09:42,399 --> 02:09:45,439
ancestral sin original sin, which for us as Orthodox is

2197
02:09:45,520 --> 02:09:48,800
not guilt. It's the effects of the fault, which includes

2198
02:09:48,880 --> 02:09:53,840
mortality and death. But guilt is only a crue to

2199
02:09:53,960 --> 02:09:59,199
somebody when they have an actual sin. So infants are

2200
02:09:59,239 --> 02:10:01,840
still liable to being descendants of Adam. But that doesn't

2201
02:10:01,960 --> 02:10:03,880
It doesn't follow from that that they are guilty of

2202
02:10:03,920 --> 02:10:07,800
actual sin. And even Roman Catholics nowadays believe that raptor

2203
02:10:08,000 --> 02:10:13,680
venom five dollars was that guy uh pinesap pretending to

2204
02:10:13,720 --> 02:10:16,880
be a Protestant. No, he's an actual Protestant apologist named

2205
02:10:16,880 --> 02:10:20,159
Cleeve to antiquity. He's the only other person I've ever

2206
02:10:20,439 --> 02:10:25,119
heard it called chalseed on. He's obviously new to these topics.

2207
02:10:25,359 --> 02:10:29,239
Charshi five dollars. My brain is alchemically reduced to reptilian

2208
02:10:29,279 --> 02:10:32,920
mush by algorithmic dopamine warfare. I tried to read your book,

2209
02:10:33,840 --> 02:10:37,840
but I started to hallucinate. TikTok brain rot haha. Will

2210
02:10:37,880 --> 02:10:45,039
you do an audible version? I don't know. Maybe Patrick

2211
02:10:45,079 --> 02:10:48,119
five dollars. From your lecture on the subject, I understand

2212
02:10:48,199 --> 02:10:52,720
that Fabian socialists considered Christianity to be an enemy, mortal enemy.

2213
02:10:53,560 --> 02:10:56,399
They wanted to flood the West with Muslims. What is

2214
02:10:56,439 --> 02:10:58,239
it about Islam that makes them feel it is more

2215
02:10:58,319 --> 02:11:04,239
conducive to their technocracy in Christianity. The inherent characteristics of

2216
02:11:04,279 --> 02:11:07,560
the people groups who are Muslim, They're not given to

2217
02:11:09,640 --> 02:11:13,760
very rational thought, They're very easy to be controlled, it's

2218
02:11:13,840 --> 02:11:17,279
a dumb sect. All of those things could contribute to

2219
02:11:17,319 --> 02:11:21,680
why they're a useful chess piece. They also thought back

2220
02:11:21,720 --> 02:11:24,279
at the time, the nineteen tens and twenties, the Fabians

2221
02:11:24,319 --> 02:11:27,640
themselves thought that they could turn Islam into a kind

2222
02:11:27,680 --> 02:11:31,800
of socialism. They thought that you could migrate that into

2223
02:11:31,880 --> 02:11:39,880
a socialist ideology. That's at least what I think any Bassant,

2224
02:11:40,119 --> 02:11:44,439
bertand Russell, and I think George Bernard Shaw said the

2225
02:11:44,479 --> 02:11:49,279
same thing. Now, whether that was true, that's a different question.

2226
02:11:49,520 --> 02:11:52,039
Whether it really could be that, but that seemed to

2227
02:11:52,079 --> 02:11:53,600
be what they thought. They thought that was better than

2228
02:11:53,720 --> 02:11:58,720
Christianity for their phases. Now you have to understand, like

2229
02:11:59,840 --> 02:12:02,000
you can't think of this in some sort of low

2230
02:12:02,359 --> 02:12:08,439
IQ mindset, like why would they want Islam. Islam don't

2231
02:12:08,439 --> 02:12:12,880
believe in technocracy. They're not believing in Islam. They're thinking

2232
02:12:12,960 --> 02:12:18,359
about down the road, not just destroying Western civilization with Islam,

2233
02:12:18,399 --> 02:12:23,479
but then merging that new glop people civilization that's now

2234
02:12:23,760 --> 02:12:28,039
not civilized into the technocracy. So it's a temporal weapon

2235
02:12:28,159 --> 02:12:30,800
for a time, then you move it into the technocracy.

2236
02:12:31,039 --> 02:12:34,000
So a lot of you guys are oversimplified in your

2237
02:12:34,039 --> 02:12:37,079
thinking papahuahwah ten dollars. I'm trying to be focused on

2238
02:12:37,159 --> 02:12:39,439
being a better leader and husband and a new father.

2239
02:12:40,159 --> 02:12:42,439
Do you have any recommendations on this beside the Bible.

2240
02:12:43,239 --> 02:12:46,039
I think Chris Sistom has some sermons that are pretty

2241
02:12:46,039 --> 02:12:56,239
famous for married couples. You might check that out. Seam

2242
02:12:56,279 --> 02:12:58,720
Ox has five dollars. If you think about a court,

2243
02:12:59,439 --> 02:13:03,479
each state court rules in each state in America and

2244
02:13:03,560 --> 02:13:05,359
has a catch all rule that given the judge a

2245
02:13:05,399 --> 02:13:06,600
discretion applying the court.

2246
02:13:07,680 --> 02:13:07,800
Speaker 5: Uh.

2247
02:13:07,920 --> 02:13:12,319
Speaker 10: And I'm saying this because as because I am a lawyer.

2248
02:13:12,760 --> 02:13:15,079
So Zal Maxis is saying he is a lawyer, and

2249
02:13:15,159 --> 02:13:20,159
he's pointing out the way that judges and laws operate

2250
02:13:20,239 --> 02:13:26,279
in America. Hopefully this helps the Protestants in the audience

2251
02:13:26,319 --> 02:13:31,520
who are trying to apply the canons to us like

2252
02:13:31,600 --> 02:13:42,399
we're Protestants anyway. So to all the piety signalers, I'm

2253
02:13:42,439 --> 02:13:45,399
going to church. I'm going to church. Do I get

2254
02:13:45,680 --> 02:13:48,199
Internet points? I'm going. Look, my hands are up, I'm

2255
02:13:48,239 --> 02:13:51,039
praising myself for going to church. Look how pious i

2256
02:13:51,119 --> 02:13:54,680
am remember to have I'm making a joke. I'm heading

2257
02:13:54,760 --> 02:13:59,520
over to church dot com. I'm not actually going to

2258
02:13:59,640 --> 02:14:01,399
be a building because I don't actually have a church.

2259
02:14:01,439 --> 02:14:03,760
It doesn't exist. All made up, But I'm going to

2260
02:14:03,880 --> 02:14:06,520
church dot com. I'm just kidding chalk dot com. Use

2261
02:14:06,560 --> 02:14:10,199
the promo code. By the way, Father Deacon, you're just

2262
02:14:10,239 --> 02:14:12,880
an AI profile this whole time, are you.

2263
02:14:14,520 --> 02:14:18,239
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm going to the Buffet Church.

2264
02:14:21,520 --> 02:14:22,199
Speaker 7: Yeah, it wasn't that.

2265
02:14:22,800 --> 02:14:24,840
Speaker 5: Did you tell me about the Buffet Church? And they

2266
02:14:24,920 --> 02:14:26,720
have the monster truck rally to that?

2267
02:14:28,760 --> 02:14:35,159
Speaker 10: Well, there's Randy Balls's church, but there's also ver Riverside River.

2268
02:14:36,640 --> 02:14:38,760
There is a giant megachurch that has all this, the

2269
02:14:39,119 --> 02:14:40,239
monster truck rally and everything.

2270
02:14:48,199 --> 02:14:50,800
Speaker 13: Well, I send my friend video because you saw that

2271
02:14:51,199 --> 02:15:00,119
one church with the roller coaster. Yes, yeah, so it

2272
02:15:00,199 --> 02:15:00,600
was crazy.

2273
02:15:01,000 --> 02:15:02,079
Speaker 5: It actually exists.

2274
02:15:03,039 --> 02:15:04,800
Speaker 10: Do you saw that? You saw the monster truck rally one?

2275
02:15:04,880 --> 02:15:05,000
Speaker 3: Right?

2276
02:15:07,399 --> 02:15:09,359
Speaker 5: No, I didn't know that they were joking about.

2277
02:15:09,399 --> 02:15:13,319
Speaker 10: No, No, it's true. Wow, they had male strippers too.

2278
02:15:16,399 --> 02:15:17,000
You didn't see that.

2279
02:15:17,720 --> 02:15:21,439
Speaker 13: It's literally become idiocracy, you know, we're like all the

2280
02:15:21,479 --> 02:15:24,479
different things merge into No.

2281
02:15:25,000 --> 02:15:29,319
Speaker 10: Last year, Mark Driscoll, the mega other megachurch pastor, was

2282
02:15:29,359 --> 02:15:33,279
at their giant Riverside event or whatever they call it.

2283
02:15:33,479 --> 02:15:35,640
I'll find it for you, and he got mad and

2284
02:15:35,720 --> 02:15:38,399
got up on the stage and rebuked everybody at the

2285
02:15:38,479 --> 02:15:42,199
thing for having for having male pole dancers. But that

2286
02:15:42,399 --> 02:15:50,800
was the one where they had the monster trucks too. Yes,

2287
02:15:50,880 --> 02:15:52,760
they literally had monster truck rallies. In fact, I shared

2288
02:15:52,800 --> 02:15:59,600
it uh on Twitter recently. I will reshare it for

2289
02:15:59,680 --> 02:16:01,920
you guys again. Remember to head on over to chalk

2290
02:16:01,960 --> 02:16:03,840
dot com use promo co j A y four zero

2291
02:16:03,960 --> 02:16:07,359
J forty to get forty percent off and hopefully you

2292
02:16:07,399 --> 02:16:10,119
all can see look at me, I'm going to church.