1
00:00:17,519 --> 00:00:20,440
Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the All Eighties Movies Podcast, the

2
00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:22,879
podcast where we talk about the blockbusters, the flops, and

3
00:00:22,879 --> 00:00:25,519
everything in between from one of the freshest decades from

4
00:00:25,519 --> 00:00:28,480
movies to nineteen eighties. I'm your host Bill bent Long.

5
00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,079
With me on this journey revisiting eighties movies is my

6
00:00:31,199 --> 00:00:33,920
co host Jason Massek. Hello, Jason.

7
00:00:34,759 --> 00:00:36,719
Speaker 2: Don't you know what it means to be a marine dad?

8
00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:39,560
Ever since I was a kid, I've wanted this. I've

9
00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,039
wanted to serve my country, and I want to go.

10
00:00:42,719 --> 00:00:45,240
I want to go to Vietnam and I'll die there

11
00:00:45,280 --> 00:00:45,880
if I have to.

12
00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:49,640
Speaker 1: That's right, Listeners, we are discussing with spoilers of Plenty,

13
00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:53,079
the nineteen eighty nine Vietnam drama born on the fourth

14
00:00:53,119 --> 00:00:57,439
of July. It was produced by Explained Productions adgistered it

15
00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:01,280
by Universal Pictures. The movie stars Tom Cruz, Kirre Sedgwick,

16
00:01:01,479 --> 00:01:04,920
and Willem Dafoe. Co written and directed by Oliver Stone,

17
00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:07,079
this movie is rated R with a running time of

18
00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:10,599
two hours and twenty five minutes. This movie was nominated

19
00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:14,120
for eight Oscars, winning two for Best Film Editing and

20
00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:17,879
Best Director. The movie is based on the nineteen seventy

21
00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:21,840
six autobiography of ron Kovic, also titled Born on the

22
00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,640
Fourth of July. This movie kicks off our Summer at

23
00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,079
the Cinema series, where all the movies we discussed this

24
00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,359
month take place at some point during the summer. So

25
00:01:30,879 --> 00:01:33,439
what is this movie about? What's on the box? If

26
00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:35,040
you grew up in the nineteen eighties and went to

27
00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,200
your local video store to rent this movie, or in

28
00:01:37,239 --> 00:01:39,840
this case, in the nineties, you would find this description

29
00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,400
on the back of the VHS box. It is what's

30
00:01:42,439 --> 00:01:43,640
in the box? Take it away.

31
00:01:43,719 --> 00:01:48,159
Speaker 2: Jason Tom Cruise delivers a riveting and unforgettable portrayal of

32
00:01:48,319 --> 00:01:53,439
Vietnam veteran Ron Kovic in Oliver Stone's Academy Award winning masterpiece.

33
00:01:53,879 --> 00:01:56,640
Based on a true story, the acclaimed film follows the

34
00:01:56,719 --> 00:01:59,680
young Kovic from a zealous teen who eagerly volunteers for

35
00:01:59,719 --> 00:02:03,120
the v Vietnam War, to an embittered veteran paralyzed from

36
00:02:03,159 --> 00:02:06,879
the midchest down. Deeply in love with his country, Kovic

37
00:02:06,959 --> 00:02:10,000
returned to an environment vastly different from the one he left,

38
00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,479
and struggled before emerging as a brave new voice for

39
00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:14,599
the disenchanted.

40
00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,800
Speaker 1: Born in the fourth of July. So that was what's

41
00:02:17,879 --> 00:02:20,479
in the box. Let's move on to our eighty snapshot

42
00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:24,520
as we highlight some of the creative forces from this movie. Jesus,

43
00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:24,919
who you got?

44
00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:30,120
Speaker 2: That would be Kira Sedgwick for me, who portrays Donna

45
00:02:30,719 --> 00:02:32,879
in Born on the fourth of July. Getting right to

46
00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:37,960
her eighties snapshot, she does sixteen episodes of Another World,

47
00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:40,039
the soap opera from eighty two to eighty three. Then

48
00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,599
she makes her acting debut in a film called War

49
00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,000
in Love in nineteen eighty five, and most importantly, I

50
00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,840
think Bill would agree, she is in an episode of

51
00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,840
Miami Vice. That's right. In nineteen eighty five, she plays

52
00:02:51,879 --> 00:02:55,680
the character Sarah McPhail in an episode called Phil the Shill.

53
00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,840
Then she does also do an episode of Amazing Stories

54
00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:02,159
in eighty six called Lemon Sky in eighty eight Kansas

55
00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:04,639
in eighty eight as well, and then this Born on

56
00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:08,039
the fourth of July and eighty nine, which by some

57
00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:12,960
is considered her first brush with stardom. Other notables from

58
00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,400
Kira Sedgwick after the eighties, she does singles in ninety two,

59
00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:18,719
Something to Talk About, ninety five Murder in the first

60
00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:22,719
ninety five phenomenon in ninety six, lots of TV movies

61
00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:25,759
and episodes of TV series Afterword. She did ban On

62
00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,039
a Ledge in twenty twelve. She's probably best known, however,

63
00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:31,560
for starring in one hundred and nine episodes of The

64
00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:34,879
Closer from five to twenty twelve, for which she won

65
00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,400
a Primetime Emmy for Outstanding Lead Actress in twenty ten.

66
00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:43,159
She does more episodic TV, everything from Brooklyn ninety nine

67
00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,680
to the show Call Your Mother and the Summer I

68
00:03:45,759 --> 00:03:48,439
Turned Pretty. And here's a little trivia. She was three

69
00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:51,800
months pregnant with her son, Travis Bacon when she completed

70
00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,000
filming on the born of fourth of July and eighty nine,

71
00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:56,840
then returned to work after giving birth to Travis to

72
00:03:56,919 --> 00:04:00,400
begin filming Mister and Missus Bridge in nineteen ninety. And yes,

73
00:04:00,479 --> 00:04:02,680
it is well known, or somewhat at least, that she

74
00:04:02,879 --> 00:04:06,919
has been married to mister Kevin Bacon since nineteen eighty

75
00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,000
eight and they do have two children together.

76
00:04:09,439 --> 00:04:14,520
Speaker 1: Cara Cedric one degree from Kevin Bacon. Well said, Okay,

77
00:04:14,639 --> 00:04:17,120
so I have co writer and director alver Stone, who

78
00:04:17,199 --> 00:04:19,720
was born in New York in nineteen forty six. In

79
00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:23,439
nineteen sixty seven, Stone enlisted in the United States Army

80
00:04:23,639 --> 00:04:26,639
during the Vietnam War. He served from nineteen sixty seven

81
00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,399
to nineteen sixty eight and was twice wounded in action.

82
00:04:29,759 --> 00:04:33,079
For his service, he received military honors, including a Bronze Star,

83
00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:37,240
the Purple Heart and Air Metal, and the Combat Infantry Badge.

84
00:04:37,519 --> 00:04:40,079
In nineteen seventy four, Stone would write and direct his

85
00:04:40,319 --> 00:04:44,600
first feature, the nineteen seventy four horror movie Seizure. His

86
00:04:44,759 --> 00:04:48,399
next screenplay would win Stone his first OSCAR for Best

87
00:04:48,519 --> 00:04:52,360
Writing Screenplay based on material from another medium. It was

88
00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,879
the nineteen seventy eight prison drama Midnight Express, based on

89
00:04:55,959 --> 00:04:58,720
the book by the same name. In the eighties, Stone

90
00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:02,519
would write screenplays for Fi Conan, The Barbarian, Scarface, You're

91
00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,879
the Dragon, eight Million Ways to Die. He would also

92
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,399
write and direct nineteen eighty one's The Hand, nineteen eighty

93
00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,519
six Salvador, in which he was nominated for an Oscar

94
00:05:12,639 --> 00:05:15,639
for a Screenplay, and then, of course, nineteen eighty six

95
00:05:15,759 --> 00:05:19,920
is Platoon, which we covered in season three. Stone won

96
00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:23,199
Best Director and was nominated for his screenplay for that film.

97
00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,959
Next would be nineteen eighty seven's Wall Street, followed by

98
00:05:27,199 --> 00:05:30,519
nineteen eighty eight's Talk Radio and would close out the

99
00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:34,079
decade with Born on the Fourth of July. Other notable

100
00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:37,959
movies of Oliver Stone would be The Doors JFK and

101
00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:43,639
Natural Born Killers co writer, director, and producer Oliver Stone,

102
00:05:44,199 --> 00:05:47,920
and that would lead us to our earliest memories. What

103
00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,519
are our earliest memories of the fourth of July? Jason

104
00:05:51,639 --> 00:05:52,439
kick it off for us?

105
00:05:52,959 --> 00:05:55,759
Speaker 2: Well, I was sixteen when this movie came out the

106
00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:58,639
Christmas of eighty nine, junior in high school, and I'm

107
00:05:58,639 --> 00:06:00,160
pretty sure I saw this one in the theater with

108
00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,079
my friends. I can't be certain of that, however, Now, regardless,

109
00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:07,319
one hears the buzz at the time through reviews on

110
00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,040
television or in the paper, and I was already sold

111
00:06:10,079 --> 00:06:12,240
on Tom Cruise at the time because of risky business,

112
00:06:12,319 --> 00:06:15,199
top gun, cocktail, rain man, et cetera. So I got

113
00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,160
to see this right, and I did, And my memories

114
00:06:18,199 --> 00:06:21,240
are somewhat vague. I recall knowing it was an Ali

115
00:06:21,399 --> 00:06:25,600
Stone film, and having seen Platoon, that this would probably

116
00:06:25,639 --> 00:06:30,560
be another weighty film, a heavy subject. And I recall

117
00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,879
thinking that Cruise's performance was worthy of the praise that

118
00:06:34,079 --> 00:06:37,120
I had read or heard about previous and that yeah,

119
00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:40,279
it was a tough film to watch. I recall the

120
00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:42,720
sequence in Vietnam near the beginning of the film, and

121
00:06:42,959 --> 00:06:48,040
I remembered care Sedgwick being extremely likable. But at that

122
00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,439
time I felt it was a little slow for me

123
00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,680
and my sensibilities as a teenager and looking forward to

124
00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:58,160
those brainless action films of the time. And anyway, I

125
00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:02,079
clearly hadn't had a historical grasp on the content or

126
00:07:02,199 --> 00:07:04,879
real life events of this film other than the fact

127
00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:08,240
that my own father flew in the war, and from

128
00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:10,680
outward appearances and from the viewpoint of a sixteen year

129
00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:15,120
old kid, he seemed to have adjusted pretty well afterward,

130
00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,959
But that was naive again, teenage point of view I had.

131
00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:21,920
I didn't have an understanding of the tumultuous era it

132
00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,439
was for our country that was a little before my time.

133
00:07:24,519 --> 00:07:26,480
I didn't live it, and I'm not going to pretend

134
00:07:26,639 --> 00:07:29,319
I even know the weight of it now or the

135
00:07:29,399 --> 00:07:32,240
depth of it now, but I certainly didn't then, and

136
00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:34,519
so I didn't have an investment in it other than

137
00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,959
respecting the direction of Oliverstone and of course the John

138
00:07:39,199 --> 00:07:42,079
Williams score, because I was such a big fan of his.

139
00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:44,759
So honestly, I was really interested to see how I

140
00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:47,480
felt about this movie today because I would possibly have

141
00:07:47,519 --> 00:07:49,879
a little more empathy and connection as an adult with

142
00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:53,079
some life experience and a little more knowledge of history.

143
00:07:53,319 --> 00:07:55,079
What are your earliest memories? Bill Bant?

144
00:07:55,519 --> 00:07:57,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, for me, the first time I saw this was

145
00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:01,519
freshman year of college. At the time, I still wasn't

146
00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:05,199
a big Tom Cruise fan, which would, as I've joked,

147
00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,319
Days of Thunder is the one that for some reason

148
00:08:08,399 --> 00:08:09,639
I was like, oh, you know what, I kind of

149
00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:11,800
like Tom Cruise now, so of all movies of his

150
00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:16,639
to become a fan of. But at school, they would

151
00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:20,399
have Wednesday Blockbuster Night, which was remember back in the day,

152
00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:22,439
when a movie come out in theater. After I would

153
00:08:22,439 --> 00:08:24,680
do his run, you'd usually have to wait up two

154
00:08:24,759 --> 00:08:26,480
years for it to come out on video, maybe two

155
00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,959
years to come out on cable. So on campus they

156
00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,799
would show these movies basically after theatrical run and before

157
00:08:33,799 --> 00:08:36,080
they came out on videos, so it would be probably

158
00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,240
the last time you had a chance to watch it

159
00:08:38,279 --> 00:08:41,240
on the big screen. And this was on its play schedule,

160
00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,639
and they'd have these movies basically first run movies every

161
00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,480
Wednesday night, and I was there every Wednesday either go

162
00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,759
with my roommate, and then he had a friend that

163
00:08:50,919 --> 00:08:54,279
was an ROTC. His name was Chad. And then Chad

164
00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,200
brought a friend along who we've mentioned on this podcast

165
00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:59,159
every once in a while, Tom McKenzie. That was the

166
00:08:59,159 --> 00:09:02,720
first time I met Tom McKenzie was through Wednesday Blockbusters.

167
00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:05,600
So that was the first time I saw Born the

168
00:09:05,639 --> 00:09:07,960
fourth of July. You know, I knew with Oliver Stone

169
00:09:08,039 --> 00:09:12,720
making Platoon and what its impact was winning Best Picture,

170
00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:17,159
but because it was cruise and the material, it was

171
00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:21,080
a tough watch. I wasn't that into it, so I

172
00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,279
kind of just left it there. I haven't watched it since,

173
00:09:24,799 --> 00:09:27,840
so this is interesting to me to go back again

174
00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,919
for the first time now in thirty some years, to

175
00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:34,080
watch it and see what I think about it.

176
00:09:34,279 --> 00:09:37,440
Speaker 2: Couldn't agree more. Bill Bent, I had the same exact sentiment.

177
00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:41,279
I was thinking, Wow, I have not seen this probably

178
00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,360
for about the same time span, and now that I

179
00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,679
think about it, maybe I had only just seen it once.

180
00:09:47,879 --> 00:09:50,559
I know I had only seen it once in its entirety,

181
00:09:50,919 --> 00:09:53,879
but I don't even know if i'd seen clips or

182
00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:57,559
little pieces of it afterwards. So yeah, it was almost

183
00:09:57,879 --> 00:10:00,240
as if we were watching it with fresh eye then,

184
00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:01,879
so this will be good to talk about.

185
00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:04,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, so let's get into initial thoughts. Then,

186
00:10:04,759 --> 00:10:07,000
what are your initial thoughts watching Born the fourth of

187
00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:08,440
July all these years later?

188
00:10:08,799 --> 00:10:12,840
Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely, let's get into it. You know, this is

189
00:10:13,159 --> 00:10:17,080
the second part of the Oliverstone Vietnam trilogy, the other

190
00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,320
two being, of course, Bill had mentioned Platoon in nineteen

191
00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,039
eighty six, which we covered, and then Heaven and Earth

192
00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,679
in ninety three, which I have to admit I've never seen.

193
00:10:26,879 --> 00:10:29,639
Have you seen Heaven and Earth? Bill? No, I'm not, Okay,

194
00:10:30,039 --> 00:10:32,559
may have to check that out. Being the completests that

195
00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:34,639
we are, I don't know why I just said that.

196
00:10:34,639 --> 00:10:36,840
I don't know if we're completest anyway. As soon as

197
00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:40,840
this film begins Born on the fourth of July, I

198
00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:45,080
was already anticipating the score by John Williams, and it

199
00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:51,360
didn't disappoint. Sweeping, swelling, epic, heartbreaking. I love this music.

200
00:10:51,759 --> 00:10:53,799
Even before it started, I could hear the theme in

201
00:10:53,879 --> 00:10:56,360
my head because although I hadn't watched this film in

202
00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:01,600
several several years, I've listened to the JAD hits repeatedly,

203
00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:05,879
so I knew this music now, not just the music here,

204
00:11:06,039 --> 00:11:09,440
but I wanted to shout out the soundtrack and Bill Bant.

205
00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:11,440
One thing that just jumped out to me was that

206
00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:16,879
Vietnam movies always have great soundtracks because of the era,

207
00:11:17,279 --> 00:11:21,399
because of that time in music and everything that was

208
00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,240
happening within the music industry at that time as well.

209
00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,480
So just a great, great soundtrack here. We get major

210
00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:29,840
needle drops like a hard Brain's Gonna fall, Born on

211
00:11:29,919 --> 00:11:33,440
the Bayou, browne Eyed Girl, American Pie, My Girl, Soldier Boy,

212
00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:37,840
Venus moon River. Just great music in this movie all around.

213
00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,879
So getting to the film itself, I do love the

214
00:11:42,039 --> 00:11:45,559
opening ten minutes or so pure Americana in the late fifties,

215
00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,279
early sixties and beyond, and just love the glow of it.

216
00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:51,840
I do want to take a moment here to give

217
00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:55,960
the cinematographer of this film a real shout out. Bob

218
00:11:56,200 --> 00:12:01,639
Richardson collaborator with Oliver Stone and Scorse and Tarantino over

219
00:12:01,639 --> 00:12:04,279
the years, and he was nominated for this and he

220
00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:08,039
had won three Oscars for Best Cinematography and also fun

221
00:12:08,159 --> 00:12:12,120
fact for us. Bill Bant the gaffer on this film

222
00:12:12,519 --> 00:12:15,440
and also would be known as a chief lighting technician

223
00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:21,519
for Bob Richardson, is Ray Peshk credited as Ray Ray

224
00:12:21,639 --> 00:12:24,600
Team Peshk on this who we were lucky enough to

225
00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:28,759
work with on two of our short films, Yes, Overcards

226
00:12:28,879 --> 00:12:29,879
and Desolate Road.

227
00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,960
Speaker 1: I didn't know that he worked with Stone. That's crazy. Yeah,

228
00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:36,080
of all the stories he told you, I don't remember

229
00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:36,960
him ever mentioning.

230
00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,639
Speaker 2: Yep, he was ar Bob Richardson's right hand man for

231
00:12:40,799 --> 00:12:44,720
a lot of shoots and so thus working with huge directors.

232
00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:49,919
And then Ray Peshk himself was our DP, our director

233
00:12:49,919 --> 00:12:53,679
of photography on our short films, and clearly because of

234
00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:56,000
his experience as a gaffer, knew how to light our

235
00:12:56,320 --> 00:13:00,159
set and location quite well and quite quickly. Yes, a

236
00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:04,000
good dude, funny guy, vibrant, had a lot of personality.

237
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,480
Good dude. But I just wanted to say the point

238
00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:11,200
being this film looks fantastic and it is lit fantastic,

239
00:13:11,279 --> 00:13:14,960
So credit to both Bob and Ray. Hey how about

240
00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:18,840
a young Tom Cruise embraces love This look from Tom

241
00:13:18,919 --> 00:13:21,919
Cruise in the beginning of this movie as he's coming

242
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:26,080
of age and this is a few years after Top

243
00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:29,759
Gun and Tom Cruise looks even younger to me. Granted

244
00:13:29,919 --> 00:13:32,440
there's some makeup but men, I was like Jase, he

245
00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:35,000
still's got a baby face in this movie. I have

246
00:13:35,039 --> 00:13:37,080
a question for you, Bill Bant, Is this the most

247
00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,679
connected we've seen Tom Cruise with another woman in a film?

248
00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:42,360
Speaker 1: Yes, I was thinking that too.

249
00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,919
Speaker 2: He has been intimate, you know, there's kissing scenes, et cetera,

250
00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,480
not overtly sexual scenes. But here what is missing I

251
00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:54,480
think in his romantic relationships within films has been a

252
00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:58,320
connectivity or a chemistry. Really for me personally, that's my opinion.

253
00:13:58,399 --> 00:14:01,360
But here I think he he's got real chemistry with

254
00:14:01,519 --> 00:14:03,480
Kira Cedgwick, which I appreciated.

255
00:14:03,799 --> 00:14:06,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe risky business.

256
00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,879
Speaker 2: He's got some chemistry with a Rebecca de Marney for sure.

257
00:14:13,279 --> 00:14:15,000
That's a good point. Yeah, I glad you brought that up.

258
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,200
Speaker 1: But I mean, considering his filmography, the fact that we

259
00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,799
could probably name him all in one hand. Yeah, true,

260
00:14:21,879 --> 00:14:24,440
And he did movies Nicole Kidman that sho the popped

261
00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:25,399
up first and it didn't.

262
00:14:25,639 --> 00:14:28,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, good point. Anyway, let's talk about Tom Cruise

263
00:14:28,639 --> 00:14:31,159
for a moment. For me, this is a big initial thought.

264
00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:35,120
His performance really carries the whole movie. I'll have more

265
00:14:35,159 --> 00:14:36,879
to say at the end of my initial thoughts, but

266
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,159
I think he's excellent in this, really, really quite good.

267
00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,279
I've always been of the opinion that he was a

268
00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:45,080
great actor, but this is a movie where you can

269
00:14:45,159 --> 00:14:49,879
see a lot of his internal conflict. There is so

270
00:14:50,159 --> 00:14:53,200
much going on within his face, but none of it

271
00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:59,759
is overacting. It is subtle reactions to everyone's reaction to him,

272
00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:04,600
especially after he incurs the disability and comes back from

273
00:15:04,679 --> 00:15:09,279
Vietnam and he's in the wheelchair. How he handles how

274
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:14,480
everyone else sees him it's quite something, and how he

275
00:15:14,639 --> 00:15:18,840
internalizes it and then does let it out emotionally in

276
00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:21,080
various scenes. So I'm a big fan of him in

277
00:15:21,159 --> 00:15:23,879
this movie as far as his acting, Chops, how did

278
00:15:23,919 --> 00:15:25,480
you feel about his performance overall?

279
00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:29,120
Speaker 1: I think most of us consider Tom Cruise a movie star,

280
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,559
but in this movie, he's a movie actor. Yeah, And

281
00:15:32,759 --> 00:15:35,519
that was one of the definitely big impressions I got

282
00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,799
of rewatching this. I'm like, Yeah, this guy can act

283
00:15:39,159 --> 00:15:42,720
if he needs to. He likes to make popcorn films,

284
00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,120
which is great, you know, we enjoy then, But he

285
00:15:45,399 --> 00:15:48,720
can act and he does it quite well in this film.

286
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:53,679
Speaker 2: I agree. And yeah, he over this span from mid

287
00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:56,000
to late eighties all the way up through the two thousands,

288
00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:59,919
had worked with so many huge directors and was very

289
00:16:00,159 --> 00:16:03,159
calculating in his approach. But then yeah, as of late

290
00:16:03,279 --> 00:16:05,600
he has chosen to do the popcorn films like The

291
00:16:05,639 --> 00:16:08,720
Mission Impossible films, which are fantastic and we're huge fans.

292
00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,080
I can't get enough. I hope he keeps doing them forever.

293
00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,759
It seems like he will somehow, some way. But here

294
00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,120
I've always been a fan of Like his work in

295
00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,559
rain Man, Color of Money, I think he's quite good

296
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,759
as a total flake, will you know so? But here

297
00:16:24,279 --> 00:16:26,279
you can see he did the work. You really can

298
00:16:26,279 --> 00:16:28,600
see he did the work. Moving on, here's the film

299
00:16:28,679 --> 00:16:31,360
gets going. It's immediate that there are a lot of

300
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:33,919
other actors in this movie besides Tom Cruise, a lot

301
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:38,480
of other familiar faces, many from Stone's first Vietnam film, Platoon.

302
00:16:38,919 --> 00:16:42,960
Lots of crossover there, but overall, what a Murderers Row.

303
00:16:43,039 --> 00:16:47,240
An incredible cast of character actors and supporting actors. We've

304
00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:51,639
got Kira Sedgwick as aforementioned Raymond J. Berry, Caroline Kava,

305
00:16:51,799 --> 00:16:55,879
Jerry Levine, Frank Wally at Lauder, Michael Wincott, Tom Sizemore,

306
00:16:55,919 --> 00:17:01,840
Willem Dafoe, Steven Billy and Daniel Baldwin, Goten, Jason Gedrick,

307
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,920
Josh Evans, Lily Taylor's in this as well, Tom Barringer,

308
00:17:06,039 --> 00:17:09,599
both John c. McGinley and Wayne Knight have appearances. Vivica

309
00:17:09,799 --> 00:17:12,319
Fox plays a hooker at some point.

310
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,519
Speaker 1: In this movie. I didn't I don't think you see

311
00:17:14,599 --> 00:17:15,000
her face.

312
00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:18,079
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm like, I don't remember seeing her, but she

313
00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:19,799
is credited, and there's.

314
00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:21,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think she's at the VA hospital.

315
00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:25,519
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you. And there's cameos and others like I

316
00:17:25,559 --> 00:17:29,440
didn't even cover everyone here, but it's everybody, including Tom

317
00:17:29,599 --> 00:17:31,920
Cruise's cousin who's in there somewhere.

318
00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:32,559
Speaker 1: Yep.

319
00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,799
Speaker 2: Crazy. So we get all of these reunions in this

320
00:17:36,039 --> 00:17:39,200
from Platoon and you know what reunion jumped out to me,

321
00:17:39,319 --> 00:17:44,079
Bill Bant, the Tom Cruise Jason Gedrick reunion from Risky Business.

322
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:46,720
Oh yeah, that's right, only because this is kind of

323
00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:48,839
a little tongue in chee because Jason Gendrick is like

324
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,599
on screen for like two seconds in Risky Business. You

325
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:53,599
see him at the party at the end, right, does

326
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:55,799
he does he say something? Doesn't he have like one?

327
00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:57,279
Speaker 1: Or I think he done?

328
00:17:57,559 --> 00:18:00,119
Speaker 2: Yeah? It's like, wait, a minute. Jason Kendrick is in

329
00:18:00,279 --> 00:18:03,279
risky business. I remember calling that out. But it is

330
00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:05,599
great to see our Platoon stars in this, such as

331
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:08,519
will and Defoe and just such a young badass Tom

332
00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:12,920
Behringer as the Marine Corps recrreer. Tom looking sharpen this.

333
00:18:13,599 --> 00:18:16,559
I mean, he's still playing a soldier, but he looks

334
00:18:16,599 --> 00:18:19,279
so different than he does in Platoon cleans up well

335
00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:21,920
here in this film. Usually I mentioned a standout from

336
00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:23,799
the movie. There's so many good actors in this, but

337
00:18:24,039 --> 00:18:26,680
Tom Cruise is really the standout. Beyond that, I want

338
00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:28,680
to give a shout out to Raymond Jay Berry and

339
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,039
Caroline Cova who portray Missus and Missus Kovic, his parents

340
00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:34,799
in this. I thought they were both excellent. We get

341
00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,680
these great supporting actors that provide real perspective on the

342
00:18:37,759 --> 00:18:40,240
view of the war from home. So shout out to

343
00:18:40,319 --> 00:18:43,079
Jerry Levine's childhood friend Steve Boyer, who chose to go

344
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,319
to college and starts his own business instead of going

345
00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:48,440
to Vietnam. And I really liked Rocky Carroll, African American

346
00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:51,839
actor who played Willie in the VA hospital who helps

347
00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:54,359
ron Kovic, and he has a line that says like this,

348
00:18:54,759 --> 00:18:57,559
I'm serious, man. It ain't about burning the flag in Vietnam. Man.

349
00:18:57,640 --> 00:18:59,599
We fight for our rights over there. We ain't got

350
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,079
no right at home. It's about Detroit, Newark, man. It's

351
00:19:02,079 --> 00:19:05,319
about racism. Man. So I appreciated him. I appreciated these

352
00:19:05,319 --> 00:19:08,160
supporting actors for giving the perspective that they did in

353
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,000
this movie. I thought that was really smart and they're

354
00:19:10,039 --> 00:19:13,079
all just brilliant. Always been a fan of care Sedgwick.

355
00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:15,119
What do you think, Bill? I just think she exues

356
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,119
a certain warmth and kindness. She's like the cute girl

357
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:20,119
next door. I think she plays it to a t.

358
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,200
I did find her good in this and very understated.

359
00:19:23,319 --> 00:19:25,400
She did a lot of She definitely does a little

360
00:19:25,559 --> 00:19:28,519
face acting because she's really pining for Ron throughout that

361
00:19:28,759 --> 00:19:31,759
beginning of the film, and Ron is just oblivious to

362
00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,319
it until the prem scene, which I'll get into right

363
00:19:34,519 --> 00:19:36,759
and then I kind of wish I saw a little

364
00:19:36,799 --> 00:19:38,880
bit more of her throughout the film.

365
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:40,400
Speaker 1: What happened?

366
00:19:40,759 --> 00:19:40,960
Speaker 2: Yep?

367
00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:44,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that was in my complaints too. Some of

368
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,720
these characters we meet, we don't know what happens to them,

369
00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:50,599
where do they go, what happens? So there's a lot

370
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,359
of characters that me that just get dropped off here

371
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:54,839
and there, and that's about it.

372
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:56,920
Speaker 2: I don't know if you can call it a Mandela effect,

373
00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,200
but I had remembered this differently. I expected more Cara

374
00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:02,640
Cedric a lot more in this movie. I was like, Oh,

375
00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:05,759
she's actually not in this that much. The scenes she's

376
00:20:05,799 --> 00:20:08,559
in she's great. I think as a high schooler she's

377
00:20:08,599 --> 00:20:13,119
adorable and lovable, and then later on as an activist

378
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:17,240
and protester, very convincing. She's great. I love the scenes

379
00:20:17,279 --> 00:20:20,359
she has with Cruise, but they aren't that many, so

380
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:22,799
I was surprised by that as well. I always think

381
00:20:22,839 --> 00:20:24,640
of this shot of the soldiers coming over the beach

382
00:20:24,759 --> 00:20:28,920
dunes in Vietnam. The silhouette always impactful, effective, And I

383
00:20:29,079 --> 00:20:31,799
watched this Vietnam sequence, and this is something I should

384
00:20:31,839 --> 00:20:34,680
have mentioned in early memories. I always remember the sequence

385
00:20:34,799 --> 00:20:39,319
because it feels desert, like it's a beach head and

386
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:42,400
it is unique. And I was like, that's weird. You

387
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,839
don't see any jungle, And sure enough I came across

388
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,000
it in the trivia that it's very unusual to see

389
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,359
a Vietnam movie with no jungle whatsoever. Yeah, you know,

390
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,720
watching This Man the second Fourth of July parade of

391
00:20:52,759 --> 00:20:55,079
the film, just to see how much the country had

392
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:58,039
changed within a decade was wild. This movie really does

393
00:20:58,599 --> 00:21:01,279
kind of cover the time span pretty well where you're

394
00:21:01,319 --> 00:21:03,799
just like, wow, what a time in our country where

395
00:21:03,839 --> 00:21:06,960
you just see so much change. And I find that

396
00:21:07,519 --> 00:21:09,640
was very impactful, or at least it portrayed it for

397
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,319
you will in this movie. This movie definitely makes you

398
00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:14,759
think about what the holiday means, that being the fourth

399
00:21:14,799 --> 00:21:17,799
of July Independence Day, how we gained our independence, this

400
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:20,599
country's history with war, how we got into those wars,

401
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:22,559
how we got out, what was the cost, how many

402
00:21:22,599 --> 00:21:25,480
lives were lost in how many families were destroyed. This

403
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,759
is a thought provoking film to say the least. And

404
00:21:29,279 --> 00:21:33,039
as much as I mean spoiler alert, I overall really

405
00:21:33,319 --> 00:21:36,480
did respect this film and or do respect this film

406
00:21:36,519 --> 00:21:39,160
and enjoyed the viewing experience. I did have some issues.

407
00:21:39,559 --> 00:21:43,480
I mentioned Willem Dafoe earlier, our guy from Platoon. I

408
00:21:43,559 --> 00:21:45,519
thought he was a little under used in this I

409
00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,240
love Willem Dafoe, I think he's awesome. I do love

410
00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,160
what he has in this movie, but I just want

411
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,160
more of the guy. I just love him. That's just

412
00:21:53,279 --> 00:21:56,400
one little issue. Here's the thing. What does the movie about?

413
00:21:56,519 --> 00:22:00,960
Is it patriotism, idealism, activism, the journey from innocence to experience. Obviously,

414
00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,599
this is a movie about innocence lost. It's about understanding

415
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,839
what you're fighting for or against, perspective with age, perspective

416
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,920
through listening, learning from the so called opposition, learning to

417
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:16,039
understand what you hate, learning to understand why you love

418
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,039
what you love. What real courage and sacrifice means, how

419
00:22:19,079 --> 00:22:21,559
it can mean different things, The strength and courage it

420
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,640
takes to change your way of thinking. When you discover

421
00:22:23,799 --> 00:22:26,880
something you've given your life and your belief to is

422
00:22:27,079 --> 00:22:30,519
not what you believed it to be. It's powerful stuff. Man.

423
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:35,000
But on the flip side, my take here is that

424
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,359
the movie is a lot about feelings. That it's presenting

425
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,839
a lot of feelings and a lot of temperament versus facts.

426
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,480
And that is perfectly fine. And what I mean by

427
00:22:44,599 --> 00:22:47,480
that is that we know the facts are the facts,

428
00:22:47,519 --> 00:22:50,720
they exist. Of course, there's no debating that at this point.

429
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,720
I'm just saying, in this film, how it's laid out,

430
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,000
we don't get a lot of specifics and the why

431
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,640
and the how, it's a lot of reactions. So it's

432
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,519
a take that I have here where if you're educated

433
00:23:02,559 --> 00:23:05,119
on the Vietnam War, why we entered the conflict, the

434
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,559
political climate, the tumultuous time at home in our own country,

435
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:11,400
the progressive time it was, the activism and civil rights

436
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,000
and peace movements. This movie's going to resonate if you

437
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,319
aren't educated on it. Then there's certain things that will resonate,

438
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,039
I think, and some that don't, as in ron Kovic's

439
00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,200
dealing with his mental and physical traumas, that's one thing,

440
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,519
but not as much as to the why he makes

441
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,319
the turn he does to activism. We do get a

442
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:30,599
big scene towards the end, and you can see what

443
00:23:30,839 --> 00:23:33,720
kind of cements his turn if you will. And I

444
00:23:33,839 --> 00:23:36,240
mentioned we get a lot of different perspectives from supporting

445
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,240
characters about what's going on and the bullshit lies and

446
00:23:39,519 --> 00:23:42,440
how the government lied, and the result being good boys

447
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,720
are dying thirteen thousand miles away in a place we

448
00:23:44,799 --> 00:23:46,880
don't belong. And we can respect the power of the

449
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,559
anti war or sentiment, but there still feels like something

450
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,400
is missing in the development here and exactly what the

451
00:23:52,519 --> 00:23:55,839
facts were in the information that drove these people to

452
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,720
rise up this way, our people, the people of this country.

453
00:23:58,799 --> 00:24:01,960
So with Ron's journey, we know why he's in pain.

454
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,880
We see him witness the anti war sentiment and protests.

455
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:06,759
We see him try to find his purpose to live.

456
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,680
We see what the war did to him. But I

457
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,319
guess what I was kind of hoping for more was

458
00:24:12,319 --> 00:24:16,200
an exploration into why he was so angry towards the end,

459
00:24:16,279 --> 00:24:20,400
to really cement him as an activist for the disenchanted.

460
00:24:20,599 --> 00:24:22,680
And at one point you thought you were doing the

461
00:24:22,759 --> 00:24:26,000
right thing, no matter what the sacrifice, this being Ron Kovic,

462
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,680
and then you find out the facts as to why

463
00:24:29,279 --> 00:24:31,440
you now know what you did doesn't have the meaning

464
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,720
behind it you had hoped, and what that does too.

465
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,599
We see Ron's emotional journey on the surface, but I

466
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,400
just could have used a scene or two watching Ron

467
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,799
being educated on the actual facts as to what happened

468
00:24:41,839 --> 00:24:45,359
to help fuel his decision to become this anti war promoter.

469
00:24:45,839 --> 00:24:47,480
I mean, I could go on and on, but what

470
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,640
the film does effectively is really give you a feel

471
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,160
for just how much was freaking happen in our country

472
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,359
at the time. And my dad again was a pilot

473
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,359
in the war. He flew Sea one thirties. He's got

474
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,680
a ton of stories, he lost friends, He's open about

475
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:01,400
a lot of things, and I do regard him as

476
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,240
a hero, and I try to thank him for his

477
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,680
service when I get the chance. But after watching this film,

478
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,319
I realized I never have asked him about his reaction

479
00:25:08,519 --> 00:25:11,440
to this particular time of in our country in the

480
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,119
anti war movement, or how it made him feel something

481
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,519
I need to do. So just some of my initial thoughts.

482
00:25:17,599 --> 00:25:20,400
Speaker 1: Bill Ban Yeah, I'll be honest, this movie was a

483
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:25,400
tough watch, just the way these troops were depicted in

484
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,240
the hospital, the way they were depicted it being back home.

485
00:25:29,839 --> 00:25:33,279
And when this movie came out, the war was still

486
00:25:33,559 --> 00:25:37,279
fresh in people's minds. There's still a lot of debate

487
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,839
if we should have been over there. And I think

488
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,519
for me personally, when you look at American history, you

489
00:25:44,559 --> 00:25:46,440
know we did WORL War one, we did War two.

490
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,079
We're doing the right thing. Then we got into the

491
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,519
Korean War, the forgotten War where we tied, and then

492
00:25:52,759 --> 00:25:56,000
in this one where we're asking people to go to

493
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,519
a little country where nobody knew where it was on

494
00:25:58,599 --> 00:26:02,240
the map to stop Calmanism, and half the country was

495
00:26:02,279 --> 00:26:05,279
for half the country was against it. It's really the

496
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:10,119
first time people were weary of the government. You look

497
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,440
at where we are now in the landscape of government,

498
00:26:12,519 --> 00:26:16,680
and people don't trust it. So even looking at it

499
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,359
from that perspective to today's perspective, I see a lot

500
00:26:20,599 --> 00:26:25,279
of parallels, which kind of stinks. I think Cruise is

501
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,119
really good in it. It was interesting watching the opening

502
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,240
credits and seeing all these names and the credits and

503
00:26:30,279 --> 00:26:32,039
you're like, oh my god, look all these people that

504
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,000
are in it, and so many of our blink and

505
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:40,680
you miss them kind of rolls. It's I know, you're

506
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,839
asking about why Ron changes the way that he does.

507
00:26:45,519 --> 00:26:47,359
And that's a scary thing too. You think about it.

508
00:26:47,559 --> 00:26:52,039
Here he was eighteen nineteen years old wanting to serve

509
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:56,359
in his country because his parents served, his grandparents served,

510
00:26:56,599 --> 00:26:58,559
and you just think, hey, that's the right thing to do,

511
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:00,680
that's what I should do. Should go over there and

512
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:02,680
fight for my country. I should die for my country.

513
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:07,519
And then realizing that maybe the government tricked you into going,

514
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,720
tricked all these people into going. The trick is a

515
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,680
bad word, and then you become disillusioned because before you

516
00:27:13,759 --> 00:27:15,680
knew what you were fighting for, and this time you

517
00:27:15,839 --> 00:27:18,519
don't really know what you're fighting for, and you're not

518
00:27:19,079 --> 00:27:22,640
ever trying to reach the objective that they were supposed

519
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,559
to reach in this work. So I think that it

520
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,000
makes it very tough now that we're farther away from

521
00:27:28,079 --> 00:27:29,839
this and can really look back on it in the

522
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,319
history of it, and most people agree that the result

523
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:35,759
shouldn't have been what it should have been, or should

524
00:27:35,839 --> 00:27:37,559
we even have been over there to begin with, And

525
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:40,920
that's just what makes it so upsetting. And then there's

526
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:45,799
that scene when he's in the parade and people are

527
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,880
booing him and giving him the finger. Some people were

528
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:51,839
drafted and went over there. That wasn't their choice to

529
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,799
go over and then you're treating them like that. If

530
00:27:54,839 --> 00:27:57,880
you're against the war, you should protest, but don't disrespect

531
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,720
those that went over there and try to fight what

532
00:28:01,799 --> 00:28:03,599
they thought was what they thought was the right thing.

533
00:28:04,079 --> 00:28:05,440
A lot of them went over there did not think

534
00:28:05,559 --> 00:28:08,279
was the right thing, but still did it because that's

535
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:11,400
what we were conditioned to do for our country back then.

536
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,640
So it was just tough to watch. You just kind

537
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,160
of feel like, right now, you're just disillusioned with the

538
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,920
government and the way things are, and there's no compromise anymore,

539
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,680
and we can't get things done. And this is the

540
00:28:23,759 --> 00:28:26,799
starting point right here with this war, where people just

541
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,359
realized what is the government doing? Why do we feel

542
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,000
like they're lying to us now? Why do we feel

543
00:28:31,039 --> 00:28:34,160
like they're so dishonest? It's kind of heartbreaking because most

544
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:39,640
people don't trust the government anymore. So everything's just great now,

545
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,720
right I think? For me, Yeah, maybe really think about

546
00:28:43,039 --> 00:28:47,799
what's going on now. Things haven't become a positive, they're

547
00:28:47,799 --> 00:28:48,960
becoming more of a negative.

548
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't disagree. Well said first of all. And

549
00:28:53,319 --> 00:28:57,119
also it's so confusing, and there's so much confusion at

550
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,680
this time, and it is so hard. It was hard

551
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,200
then hard now to sift through what are the facts,

552
00:29:04,559 --> 00:29:08,400
What is the government's motivation, who is driving this force

553
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:13,279
to engage in war? What is the real end game here?

554
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:15,599
What are we hoping to gain from it? What is

555
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,599
the government hoping to gain from it? If we actually

556
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:23,559
knew all of the facts or understood the administration's goals,

557
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,519
then maybe it would be clear as to which side

558
00:29:26,559 --> 00:29:30,680
we could get behind and or why. But sometimes we

559
00:29:30,839 --> 00:29:32,400
just don't have all of it, and all we have

560
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,400
is what we're being shown or the results of that,

561
00:29:35,759 --> 00:29:38,720
and then we feel a certain way, and that's I think,

562
00:29:38,799 --> 00:29:41,160
you know, the kind of the what this whole movie is.

563
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,079
It is a lot of reaction and the feelings about

564
00:29:44,359 --> 00:29:47,400
what has happened and then not really knowing why, especially

565
00:29:47,519 --> 00:29:51,799
then when there's no we being the US of a right,

566
00:29:52,319 --> 00:29:56,920
having one previous wars and being the so called power

567
00:29:57,799 --> 00:29:59,440
that we are in the standing that we have in

568
00:29:59,519 --> 00:30:01,720
the world, and then to go into this conflict and

569
00:30:01,839 --> 00:30:05,839
come out as a loser on so many fronts. Nothing

570
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,160
made sense at the time. It was such a time

571
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,799
of upheaval. So yeah, it's interesting, you know, And I

572
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:12,960
don't get me wrong, it's just the facts are all

573
00:30:13,039 --> 00:30:16,319
there underlying I guess this movie wasn't It didn't have

574
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,960
to be, and it wasn't about the minutia of the

575
00:30:19,119 --> 00:30:22,359
actual facts as to this happened here and this is

576
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,039
why we did this, and these are the documents that

577
00:30:25,119 --> 00:30:27,319
have come up. This is all happening in present time,

578
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,400
I guess at that time, so not a lot of

579
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,519
the facts were probably made known immediately. It was just

580
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:36,279
going based on what was either being leaked or word

581
00:30:36,279 --> 00:30:39,480
of mouth, you know, so impactful stuff makes.

582
00:30:39,559 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I find scary today, as they probably

583
00:30:42,759 --> 00:30:44,400
did back then during the Vietnam War, is like you

584
00:30:44,519 --> 00:30:48,599
hear two signs to every story, and then it's, well,

585
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,200
where do I get the facts to make my own

586
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:55,000
opinion to see what side I should what I'm talking

587
00:30:55,079 --> 00:30:57,599
side with? And you don't know where to go to

588
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:02,519
find that information anymore. And you look at Ron thinking, Okay,

589
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,799
we need to go over there and stop communism. And

590
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,640
then he comes back and everyone's telling him, yeah, you

591
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:09,960
should have went over there, that was wrong. And then

592
00:31:10,359 --> 00:31:12,440
you know, now he's hearing a different set of facts,

593
00:31:12,599 --> 00:31:15,359
and now he's doubting what he did and what it

594
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:19,559
cost him. Right, And that's tough because here he is,

595
00:31:19,599 --> 00:31:20,960
it's gonna be in the wheelchair for the rest of

596
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:23,920
his life. It's not going to have a family. You know,

597
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,640
you feel like you were lied to. So the bitterness,

598
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,319
the resentment, all that comes into play, and you do

599
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,319
see it, and it hurts. It hurts to watch that,

600
00:31:32,559 --> 00:31:32,680
you know.

601
00:31:32,799 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 2: And you're absolutely right, And I think you're kind of

602
00:31:34,799 --> 00:31:39,559
answering my either question or issue with the way the

603
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,440
film was laid out a little bit, is that this

604
00:31:42,559 --> 00:31:45,640
whole idea of You're just not seeing the results. What

605
00:31:45,759 --> 00:31:48,240
are the positive results from it? All you're seeing is

606
00:31:48,319 --> 00:31:50,519
the pain and anguish and what it's cost so many

607
00:31:50,599 --> 00:31:54,240
people and families. And I think that's what Ron obviously, well,

608
00:31:54,279 --> 00:31:56,920
obviously that's what Ron goes through. What he endures is

609
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:01,480
his own personal loss and doesn't see, doesn't understand. It's

610
00:32:01,559 --> 00:32:05,480
one thing to be to have that youthful, exuberant idealism

611
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,319
and faith and belief in the idea of what the

612
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,519
United States of America represents and what it is supposed

613
00:32:11,559 --> 00:32:15,319
to be as a democracy. But then when we engage

614
00:32:15,359 --> 00:32:17,319
in a conflict such as this and come out of it,

615
00:32:17,839 --> 00:32:20,400
you know, as losers. Was it worth it? Where's the

616
00:32:20,519 --> 00:32:23,920
value in it? And he sees none, obviously, such a huge,

617
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,599
huge loss and negative result that it makes him switch sides,

618
00:32:27,599 --> 00:32:28,079
if you will.

619
00:32:28,319 --> 00:32:30,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's tough to try to talk about this movie

620
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,279
not get super political, right, Yeah, But I'm just trying

621
00:32:34,279 --> 00:32:37,319
to think of it from the perspective of Ron thinking,

622
00:32:37,759 --> 00:32:41,720
this is what happened before. Our family. We wore our

623
00:32:41,759 --> 00:32:44,119
family would go, they would serve and it was the

624
00:32:44,279 --> 00:32:47,640
right thing, and this time, because you're conditioned to think

625
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:49,799
that way, and then coming out of it going, oh,

626
00:32:50,039 --> 00:32:53,039
government might have lied to you about this, Like wait, wait,

627
00:32:53,319 --> 00:32:54,480
what the hell is going on?

628
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,279
Speaker 2: Right? The whole idea is that we're going we're defending

629
00:32:57,319 --> 00:32:59,799
our way of life. Right, that's the whole idea, is

630
00:32:59,839 --> 00:33:01,920
that what we're sold on and what we like to

631
00:33:02,079 --> 00:33:05,400
believe is that we are defending our borders, we're defending

632
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:07,759
our way of life. Is that there are enemies out

633
00:33:07,799 --> 00:33:10,440
there that want what we have, and so we need

634
00:33:10,559 --> 00:33:13,960
to do our utmost and protect what we have, our

635
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:18,160
democracy and our freedom. And then to find out, well,

636
00:33:18,319 --> 00:33:22,319
that's actually what was maybe not the whole reason for

637
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,079
engaging in the war. This is not a podcast about

638
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,680
giving our own opinions and political opinions and beliefs. It's

639
00:33:29,839 --> 00:33:32,440
just we're talking about what happens in this movie and

640
00:33:32,519 --> 00:33:34,200
how the story is laid out.

641
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, with that, let's move on to favorite scenes

642
00:33:38,319 --> 00:33:40,160
or moments. We are some of our favorite scenes of

643
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,079
moments from for on the fourth of July.

644
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:47,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, speaking of a little Americana idealism and patriotism, I'm

645
00:33:47,839 --> 00:33:50,799
going to start with the opening sequence our Fourth of

646
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:55,880
July parade. Young ron Kovic is on his dad's shoulders,

647
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,960
parade is happening down what I believe is basically mainstream

648
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,240
in Massapequa, New York. Flags are waving the convoy of

649
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:08,000
cars slowly rolling down the street. Streets are just packed

650
00:34:08,119 --> 00:34:11,840
lined with people on either side. Fire Crackers are cracking

651
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,880
and making all of the smoke. We've got balloons, we've

652
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:19,719
got clowns. And then we have the veterans walking down

653
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:24,000
the street holding their flags and the elder veterans that

654
00:34:24,119 --> 00:34:27,280
are on the sidelines watching. They stand up in salute,

655
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,639
and we see these veterans marching along, and we do

656
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,320
see some disabled veterans, one in a wheelchair in particular,

657
00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:40,480
whom is reacting to the fireworks. And it is ron

658
00:34:40,559 --> 00:34:44,440
Kovic making a cameo here. He is mustached as he

659
00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:46,719
is going down the street in his wheelchair. But the

660
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,440
important thing is we do see and we watch the

661
00:34:49,639 --> 00:34:52,599
young ron Kovic on his dad's shoulders, really kind of

662
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,480
keying in on these veterans, in particular this one in

663
00:34:55,519 --> 00:34:59,480
the wheelchair as he squints and is jolted every time

664
00:34:59,519 --> 00:35:04,719
a fire cracker goes off, so he's clearly dealing with PTSD. Then,

665
00:35:05,159 --> 00:35:08,000
on a lighter note, we see ron Kovic's friends running

666
00:35:08,119 --> 00:35:11,039
through the crowd and we see a young Donna. Donna

667
00:35:11,199 --> 00:35:13,960
runs up to Ron Kovic and gives him a gift

668
00:35:14,039 --> 00:35:17,920
it's his birthday, gives him a New York Yankees hat,

669
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,639
and you even see ron Kovic's mom looking down upon him, going, oh,

670
00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:24,800
he's my Yankee doodle boy, and then it transitions to

671
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:29,559
the nighttime with Donna and Ron kissing. Ron unfortunately doesn't

672
00:35:29,599 --> 00:35:33,400
understand the moment at all and doesn't read Donna at all,

673
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,559
but does transition then later to Ron at a little

674
00:35:36,599 --> 00:35:38,800
league game hitting a home run while Donna's on the

675
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,400
sideline with a new boyfriend. No surprise that she's with

676
00:35:41,519 --> 00:35:44,119
somebody new because Ron wasn't giving her the time of day. Apparently,

677
00:35:44,599 --> 00:35:46,519
Ron hits a home run in the little league game,

678
00:35:46,599 --> 00:35:49,519
and you see his dad just jumping up and down

679
00:35:49,599 --> 00:35:52,239
in slow motion screaming, that's my boy. And then it

680
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,320
transitions to Ron and his family at home, all his

681
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:59,440
brothers and sisters watching President Kennedy's inaugural speech from nineteen

682
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,719
sixty one, and then his mom looks over to Ron

683
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,199
in particular and says, I had a dream, Ronnie, the

684
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,480
other night that you were speaking to a large crowd

685
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,159
just like him, and you were saying great things. So

686
00:36:11,639 --> 00:36:15,000
I'm calling out this whole scene because it's beautifully shot

687
00:36:15,119 --> 00:36:19,679
by Bob Richardson, lit by Guy Ray Beshki. But it

688
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:24,800
really is super nostalgic and it drives home that whole point,

689
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:30,079
the idea of what America is and or stands for

690
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:34,199
and or celebrates, which was what it was at that time.

691
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:36,760
That is Americana, and it's a real example of it.

692
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,800
And you watch it going I want to live in

693
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:45,880
this moment. Everything about this is almost heavenly. There's such

694
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,239
a glow about it. It's perfect, the perfect way to

695
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:53,079
start this movie because there is such a specific parallel

696
00:36:53,199 --> 00:36:56,599
and callback to the second Fourth of July Parade that

697
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,559
happens after Ron comes back from the war and how

698
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:04,159
things are almost polar ops and have changed so much. So, yeah,

699
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,360
I thought it was effective. It made me nostalgic for

700
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,599
my youth, even though I did not grow up in

701
00:37:09,679 --> 00:37:13,119
the sixties. It is, I guessed, very much from a

702
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,880
child's point of view. It's almost a childlike view in

703
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,199
a way. It's very innocent, right, This is the picture

704
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,239
of an innocent America in a way. It's a great

705
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:23,239
way to start this movie.

706
00:37:23,599 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I had this down also because the movie does

707
00:37:26,079 --> 00:37:29,760
open up with Ron and his friends playing war, which

708
00:37:30,159 --> 00:37:34,239
nowadays you can't even do finger guns at school without

709
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,960
you getting admonished, and it just kind of made me laugh, like, Wow,

710
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,199
we've come a long way from kids running around with

711
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,800
pretend guns shooting one another. And I think the moment

712
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,360
that got me out of that opening sequence is the

713
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:51,280
parade when Ron's on his dad's shoulders, right and we

714
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,599
see the veterans and he's so excited to see them.

715
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,360
But for me, I almost felt like he didn't see

716
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,599
the disabled. I felt like he saw through them because

717
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,559
in the back of his mind he still has that

718
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:09,519
ideal sense of Ooh, when I get older, I'm gonna serve,

719
00:38:10,079 --> 00:38:12,519
and not seeing like there is a cost if you

720
00:38:12,599 --> 00:38:14,719
go out there and serve, and he's missing that. He's

721
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:18,000
just excited of seeing the soldiers. That's how I interpreted

722
00:38:18,039 --> 00:38:20,679
it watching it. Sure's I guess there's a lot of

723
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:25,280
irony clear foreshadowing all right for me for a scene,

724
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:29,519
and it is when Ron decides that he's going to

725
00:38:29,639 --> 00:38:32,840
go to Vietnam and it's the nine of the prom

726
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,920
and he finally gets the courage to ask Donna. But

727
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,239
Donna heard that Ron was going someone else, so She's

728
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,480
going to the prom with someone else. And throughout this

729
00:38:43,559 --> 00:38:45,679
whole beating of the movie, you know, Donna has a

730
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,559
thing for Ron, and Ron's just oblivious to it. And

731
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:50,639
I'm like, oh God, that was so me back then.

732
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,159
I just never knew when someone liked me, So I

733
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,639
was like, oh, I'm feeling the pain. Yeah, it can't

734
00:38:55,639 --> 00:38:58,360
be any more obvious that Donna has the thing for Ron.

735
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:01,840
Ron's in his living room. I'm talking to his dad

736
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:06,199
and the newscast about the war, and Ron's dad says,

737
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,239
I don't know, thirteen hundred miles, that's a long way

738
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,960
to go to fight a war. And Ron's mom comes

739
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,000
in the room and she sits down, and Ron comes

740
00:39:16,079 --> 00:39:18,000
back with, basically, you're opening quote, don't you know what

741
00:39:18,119 --> 00:39:19,360
this means to me to be a marine?

742
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:19,639
Speaker 2: Dad?

743
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,199
Speaker 1: Ever since I was a kid, I wanted this. I

744
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,519
wanted to serve my country, and I want to go.

745
00:39:25,039 --> 00:39:27,360
I want to go to Vietnam and I'll die there

746
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:32,599
if I have to. And Ron's father basically just responds with,

747
00:39:33,199 --> 00:39:36,199
not a nice night for the prom. He just doesn't

748
00:39:36,199 --> 00:39:38,320
know what to say, And then we cut to Ron

749
00:39:38,599 --> 00:39:43,519
in his bedroom and his mom is very religious, and

750
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:47,719
he's basically asking Jesus, am I making the right decision,

751
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,159
Please give me a sign let me know I'm making

752
00:39:50,199 --> 00:39:52,719
the right decision to go out to Vietnam. This is

753
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:54,400
the first time he has just a little bit of

754
00:39:54,519 --> 00:39:58,800
doubt because it seems like his dad, who has served,

755
00:39:59,159 --> 00:40:02,000
doesn't want him to go. So why is his dad

756
00:40:02,119 --> 00:40:04,480
saying that? And why are some of his friends that

757
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,400
he's told that he's going over don't feel like he

758
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,880
should be doing this, So a little bit of doubts

759
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,239
creeping in. After he asked Jesus first sign, we have

760
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,760
our running scene and we see Ron running through the

761
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,280
rain and we see that he's heading to the high

762
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:23,119
school where there's the problem. Cut to the probably the gymnasium,

763
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,920
and everyone's in there dancing, and we see some of

764
00:40:26,039 --> 00:40:29,239
Ron's friends that see Ron see that he's all soaking wet,

765
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,079
and Ron's making his way through the prom and then

766
00:40:32,159 --> 00:40:36,119
we see Donna dancing with her date and Ron comes

767
00:40:36,199 --> 00:40:39,119
up to them and ask Donna if he can have

768
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:43,960
a dance. Donna says yes, and they start dancing even

769
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:47,440
though Ron is soaking wet, and you see this look

770
00:40:47,519 --> 00:40:51,599
come over Donna's face that she's just like, finally, but

771
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,679
then at the same time her look changes again because

772
00:40:55,159 --> 00:40:57,679
it's like, oh, he finally realized, but now he's going

773
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,519
away and now I might not ever see him again.

774
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,239
She does a lot in her face in those few

775
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:06,480
seconds that she's excited, but at the same time she's

776
00:41:06,519 --> 00:41:09,280
heartbroken because she doesn't know what's going to happen to

777
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,760
Ron in the future. And then they kiss and we

778
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:16,079
hear moon River playing over the dance, and then it

779
00:41:16,199 --> 00:41:19,840
slowly fades to black, and then the next scene is

780
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:24,360
we pan down and we see a battalion in Vietnam.

781
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:28,480
So to me, it's pretty powerful stuff. They could have

782
00:41:28,559 --> 00:41:30,320
just had a life with Donna, they could have had

783
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,519
a family, and Rod made a change that it's going

784
00:41:32,599 --> 00:41:35,440
to change his life and Donna's life, and scary that

785
00:41:35,519 --> 00:41:37,119
he does have that little bit of talent going in.

786
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fantastic, man, A great, great call on that

787
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:46,440
whole sequence, because as you were describing it, just I mean,

788
00:41:46,519 --> 00:41:49,079
I was replaying every moment in my mind's eye, just

789
00:41:49,159 --> 00:41:52,159
seeing the movie in my head, and that first half

790
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,800
of the sequence when he's at home and he's almost

791
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,840
in a way like pleading with his father too. He's

792
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:01,000
looking for this confirmation bias, right, he's looking for like,

793
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:03,800
hey man, you got to fight and work. Grandfather got fight.

794
00:42:04,039 --> 00:42:07,719
Now it's my turn. This is a scene of innocence

795
00:42:08,119 --> 00:42:12,280
versus experience. You have the innocent Roan Kovic, the young

796
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:16,400
Rankovic here just thinking it's my time now to step

797
00:42:16,519 --> 00:42:18,360
up and be a man. This is what it means

798
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:20,760
to be a man in this country. I have to

799
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,480
go fight for my country and this is how I

800
00:42:23,679 --> 00:42:26,679
will earn respect and this is what you're supposed to do,

801
00:42:27,599 --> 00:42:30,519
especially in his particular family. This is what he feels

802
00:42:30,639 --> 00:42:33,599
like is the right thing to do is to protect

803
00:42:33,639 --> 00:42:36,320
the country and defend the ideas of this country in

804
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:40,039
our way of life. And there's his father, just skeptical.

805
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:42,400
You would think, you know, you're watching the scene and

806
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,519
immediately like, oh, you know, his dad's going to be raw.

807
00:42:44,639 --> 00:42:46,800
Rah my ghosts son, I'm so proud of you for

808
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:50,760
making this decision. But it's the opposite. He's quite concerned

809
00:42:51,199 --> 00:42:53,679
and that really shocks him. You can see it on

810
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,119
his face. He's like, why aren't you getting behind me

811
00:42:56,199 --> 00:42:59,519
on this? Dad, and so that's just to see that

812
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,280
position there in point of view is really impactful. And

813
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:05,159
then the fact that he goes to pray, So then

814
00:43:05,199 --> 00:43:08,400
you put religion on top of it. He's wants to

815
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,559
do this not just for he's fighting for the righteous here.

816
00:43:11,599 --> 00:43:14,480
It's not just bors country, but for God as well.

817
00:43:14,599 --> 00:43:17,440
So it's kind of you know, you add that additional layer.

818
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,639
But yeah, when it's so romantic when he goes to

819
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:25,000
the prom, super super romantic, almost on a saccharine level,

820
00:43:25,119 --> 00:43:27,559
and I buy every bit of it. It's great when

821
00:43:27,639 --> 00:43:32,159
he cuts in and grabs Donna and kisses her. I

822
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,119
believe every moment of it. But especially after the kiss,

823
00:43:35,159 --> 00:43:39,000
when he holds her is like, oh, man, tug at

824
00:43:39,039 --> 00:43:42,119
the heartstrings. He needs her so much in that moment.

825
00:43:42,599 --> 00:43:45,199
And you said it well though, just the reaction on

826
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:49,079
her face, the transition in her face of feeling the

827
00:43:49,199 --> 00:43:54,079
love but then ultimately fear as well. So yeah, it's

828
00:43:54,199 --> 00:43:56,840
it's a great, great sequence. What do you got next,

829
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:00,920
I've got Ronnie comes home, I say, because this is

830
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,159
what of his parents still call him, you know, they'll

831
00:44:03,199 --> 00:44:06,239
always see him as their little Ronnie, and he is

832
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,840
now returning home for the first time after the war.

833
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,880
He's been through just a traumatic experience in the VA hospital,

834
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:15,840
learning of course that he is paralyzed, that he will

835
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:19,239
never feel anything in his body from the midchest downward

836
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:22,280
for the rest of his life. And he's still coping

837
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:26,360
and accepting that fact and very much seems in denial

838
00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:30,199
for some time. But he returns to Massapequa in nineteen

839
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:33,920
sixty nine. His dad drives him home, pulls up in

840
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,559
the station wagon. His dad comes right around to the

841
00:44:37,639 --> 00:44:41,480
passenger side door, helping Ron get into his wheelchair. And

842
00:44:42,159 --> 00:44:47,960
you can see already immediately Ron wanting to prove himself

843
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,199
to everyone from the get because this is first impression

844
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,119
after coming home. So he's trying to say, I got

845
00:44:53,199 --> 00:44:54,760
I can do this, I can get in the wheelchair.

846
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:58,199
I don't need your help, And the neighborhood is teeming

847
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,079
with activity, kids in the street, neighbors looking out their

848
00:45:01,119 --> 00:45:03,960
windows seeing that Ron's come home again. His dad tries

849
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:05,480
to help in the wheelchair, and he just says, I

850
00:45:05,559 --> 00:45:08,280
got it, I got it, I got it, And you're like, oh, yeah,

851
00:45:08,559 --> 00:45:11,119
He's already got a lot to prove here, or feels

852
00:45:11,199 --> 00:45:14,519
like he does. And Ron keeps commenting on how it's

853
00:45:14,559 --> 00:45:16,800
good to be home, how everything looks so different, and

854
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,760
he greets the dog. His brother Tommy comes out to

855
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,360
greet him. All of his brothers and sisters, the neighbors

856
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:24,639
start coming over, and now you can start to see

857
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:30,199
the looks on people's faces, how they react to seeing Ron,

858
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,519
a veteran coming back from Vietnam in a wheelchair. He

859
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,840
has no use of his legs now and Ron at

860
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:41,480
one point almost slips from the wheelchairs it hits a

861
00:45:41,519 --> 00:45:44,519
bump on the lawn, and then immediately of course, reassures

862
00:45:44,559 --> 00:45:46,800
everyone he's okay. He tries to make a joke about

863
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,239
not being able to feel anything, and he's playing things

864
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:52,519
off and he's covering, and there's just a real solid

865
00:45:52,599 --> 00:45:55,119
moment when he catches a glance from his brother Tommy,

866
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:57,599
who is hiding his feelings with the way he's looking

867
00:45:57,639 --> 00:46:00,880
at Ron, and Ron sees what's happening. This is Tom Cruise.

868
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:02,800
There are these little moments where Tom Cruise is just

869
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:07,079
brilliant and his reactions to other people's reactions. So his

870
00:46:07,199 --> 00:46:10,280
mother finally comes out. She's actually taken a moment. She

871
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:13,119
doesn't come out immediately with everyone else, and she waits

872
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,119
she gathers herself, comes out to greet him and is

873
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:20,599
very loving and immediately becomes teary eyed and she can't

874
00:46:20,639 --> 00:46:24,400
take it. She says, hi, and obviously she loves him,

875
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,800
but she has to go back inside, and that affects

876
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:29,320
Ron on a level. The neighbors greet him. He does

877
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:33,000
then eventually get back inside. His dad is now like

878
00:46:33,159 --> 00:46:35,079
giving him a tour of the house at this point,

879
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:37,800
just getting him reacquainted with how things have changed. He's sick.

880
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:41,639
I made alterations to accommodate you, widening doorways, and I

881
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,119
put a handle on the toilet for you. And Ron

882
00:46:44,639 --> 00:46:48,159
goes immediately into his old bedroom looks at a younger

883
00:46:48,199 --> 00:46:51,000
picture of himself as an able bodied wrestler, just a

884
00:46:51,079 --> 00:46:53,440
couple of years previous, and it's tough. This is the

885
00:46:53,519 --> 00:46:55,880
part that gets me, and I'm already getting emotional thinking

886
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:58,400
about is his dad comes to him in his room

887
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,119
and leads just leans down to hold him and he says,

888
00:47:01,159 --> 00:47:03,079
it's good to have you. It's good to have you, Ronnie,

889
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:06,719
and he cries and it's just like, oh my god,

890
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:09,599
it's brutal. And then he gets up and this is

891
00:47:09,679 --> 00:47:12,960
Raymond J. Barry cred to him as an actor, it's awful.

892
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:15,679
You're just heart goes out to him, you having empathy

893
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:17,599
as a parent and a father in this moment, just

894
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:19,880
like with his mother as well. But his father says,

895
00:47:20,039 --> 00:47:21,440
come on, I'll show you, I'll show you some of

896
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:23,079
the new stuff we got in the bedroom over here.

897
00:47:23,159 --> 00:47:26,679
But his voice is shaking and he's crying the whole time.

898
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:29,719
Jay Berry is just excellent in the scene. Cruise is awesome,

899
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:32,960
Caroline Cobba is awesome, his brother Tommy's awesome. Cruise is

900
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,760
constantly saying how everyone looks great and everything's great, but

901
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:39,039
it clearly isn't. Everything's changed. It's a tough scene, but

902
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:41,480
I think I said everything I need to say. It's

903
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:45,039
just well well performed, and you just are already feeling

904
00:47:45,159 --> 00:47:47,840
the weight of how things are now going to be

905
00:47:48,199 --> 00:47:51,199
different forever for Ronnie and his family.

906
00:47:51,639 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is a good scene because here's ron trying

907
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:59,480
to be super positive, overly positive to reassure his family

908
00:47:59,559 --> 00:48:02,119
that everything thing is going to be okay. But yeah,

909
00:48:02,159 --> 00:48:04,159
they have a long road ahead of them, you know,

910
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:08,559
the day to day with having to adjust to ron

911
00:48:08,639 --> 00:48:11,599
being in a wheelchair, and it is tough, and the

912
00:48:11,639 --> 00:48:15,039
neighbors being supportive and coming over and yes, they're gonna

913
00:48:15,199 --> 00:48:17,960
do those glances and stuff. And we do find out

914
00:48:18,039 --> 00:48:20,039
later on in the movie a lot of the kids

915
00:48:20,199 --> 00:48:22,880
that did go over from that area did not come

916
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:27,639
back right. So that's even harder too, because maybe some

917
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:30,719
of those families have a little bit of guilt, why

918
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:32,920
did Ron come back and not such and such for

919
00:48:33,079 --> 00:48:35,840
my kid. I can only imagine as a parent, you know,

920
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:37,679
you have to put up such a front. You know,

921
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:39,920
here's Ron being positive, and it's like, oh man, I

922
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:41,920
got to match that now, you know, to make him

923
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:44,679
feel like everything's going to be okay. And in the

924
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:46,840
back of your mind, you're thinking of everything that you're

925
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,159
gonna have to deal with now, how much their lives

926
00:48:49,199 --> 00:48:51,920
have changed from a day to day basis. So when

927
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:54,960
you really think about it, it's it's a tough scene.

928
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:55,880
It's really it really is.

929
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, when his dad cries that, it absolutely destroys me

930
00:48:59,559 --> 00:49:02,719
because of the previous scene you just described Bill Bant.

931
00:49:03,079 --> 00:49:06,719
What's going through his mind thinking should he have said

932
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:09,280
more to his son to try to convince him not

933
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:11,519
to go. You know, as a parent, you feel like

934
00:49:11,679 --> 00:49:14,800
you're supposed to protect your child. That's the bottom line.

935
00:49:15,119 --> 00:49:18,639
And he I think understands why Ron, his son went

936
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:22,679
to Vietnam, clearly, But now this has happened, there's just

937
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:25,800
got to be so many thoughts, so many thoughts going

938
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:27,199
through his father's mind at that point.

939
00:49:27,599 --> 00:49:30,559
Speaker 1: Yeah. So this takes me to one of my favorite scenes,

940
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:35,119
and this is Ron is supposedly drunk again. You know,

941
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:38,480
Ron is getting disillusioned with the war. He's seen all

942
00:49:38,519 --> 00:49:41,960
the negative press, and he's going out now with his

943
00:49:42,079 --> 00:49:45,760
friends and drinking way too much, getting sloppy drunk, and

944
00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:50,440
once again he's brought home and his mom comes in

945
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:55,360
and admonishes him for drinking. This is the first time

946
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:59,920
really Ron is expressing doubt that he shouldn't have went,

947
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:04,079
that he made a mistake, he shouldn't have gone. He

948
00:50:04,559 --> 00:50:07,480
starts having a yelling match with his mom, and his

949
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:10,800
dad intervenes and he's trying to play the peacemaker, and

950
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,280
Ron is talking about how he's almost blaming his mom

951
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:17,679
for sending him over there, and he's talking about with

952
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,599
Jesus and how Jesus only has spent three days in

953
00:50:20,639 --> 00:50:22,559
the cross and then he has to spend the rest

954
00:50:22,599 --> 00:50:25,199
of his life in a wheelchair. And he was supposed

955
00:50:25,199 --> 00:50:29,280
to go to Vietnam to stop communism, and he ended

956
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:33,239
up shooting women and children. And Ron's mom's like, what

957
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:35,599
are you talking about. You didn't shoot women and children.

958
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:40,079
What are you saying? Ron says, that was the war communism,

959
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:44,880
insiduous evil. They told us to go, and Ron's mom agrees, Yeah,

960
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,639
that's what they told us. And then Ron goes, now,

961
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:51,039
shall not kill, MoMu shall not kill women and children,

962
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,400
shall not kill. Remember, isn't that what you taught us.

963
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:57,679
Isn't that what they taught us, which is one of

964
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:01,519
the commandments in Christianity, shall not kill? And then yet

965
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:04,400
he's over there killing and not even killing what's supposed

966
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:06,360
to be the enemy. They're killing women and children. And

967
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:08,679
there is a scene in the movie where they come

968
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:11,320
upon a village and then up shooting a lot of

969
00:51:11,519 --> 00:51:13,760
women and kids, thinking that the enemy was in there

970
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:17,039
and there wasn't, and Ron's mom starts yelling at him,

971
00:51:17,079 --> 00:51:20,199
stop it, stop it, and that's when Ron says, it's

972
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:22,639
a fucking lie. There is no God. God is as

973
00:51:22,679 --> 00:51:25,639
dead as my legs. There is no gods, there's no country,

974
00:51:25,679 --> 00:51:29,960
it's nothing. I don't believe him anymore. And at this

975
00:51:30,079 --> 00:51:33,000
point Ron's mom just like, get out of my house,

976
00:51:33,079 --> 00:51:36,199
Get out of my house. Then Ron's really upset. He's

977
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:39,119
like basically says, you know, I'm crippled. I'm never going

978
00:51:39,199 --> 00:51:41,519
to be able to have kids. And that's when that's

979
00:51:41,559 --> 00:51:45,400
the big, the big Penis argument, where yeah, Ron says

980
00:51:45,559 --> 00:51:49,119
penis and Moss like, don't say penis in this house.

981
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:53,199
Speaker 2: It's like penis, penis, big fucking erect penis. Mom.

982
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 1: At this point, Ron's mom's just had it, and Ron's

983
00:51:57,599 --> 00:52:01,239
father eventually takes Ron to his room and tells them,

984
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:04,599
you know what, maybe it's time that I guess there's

985
00:52:04,639 --> 00:52:08,679
some kind of VA camp in Mexico that he's heard about,

986
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:11,320
that maybe Ron needs a couple of days away from

987
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:13,239
the home. And at first Ron doesn't want to go,

988
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:17,000
but Ronstad's kind of, yeah, I think you should think

989
00:52:17,039 --> 00:52:21,960
about it. So Ron really has doubts he made a

990
00:52:22,039 --> 00:52:26,480
mistake and having a conflict with his mom at least,

991
00:52:26,519 --> 00:52:31,559
who's very religious and a very god fearing woman, and

992
00:52:32,519 --> 00:52:35,320
he's kind of like, I don't believe what you believe,

993
00:52:36,119 --> 00:52:39,840
and you should see what they're telling us be a lie.

994
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:43,079
So we think of Tom Cruise as a movie star.

995
00:52:43,519 --> 00:52:45,480
This is a scene where he's definitely an actor.

996
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:49,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, thousand percent on that one. So glad you chose

997
00:52:49,639 --> 00:52:53,000
this scene had to be in there stellar performance from Cruise,

998
00:52:53,039 --> 00:52:57,519
I agree. The scene is absolutely loaded. And what helps

999
00:52:57,679 --> 00:53:01,039
me doing this podcast is and I have questions in

1000
00:53:01,079 --> 00:53:03,639
the beginning of my initial thoughts about whether or not

1001
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:07,360
there's enough evidence as to why ron Covid makes a

1002
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:10,079
turn here or there. It's all there now, you know,

1003
00:53:10,119 --> 00:53:11,880
when we especially when we talk about this scene, and

1004
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:14,880
I believe does this scene take place after he's gone

1005
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:19,199
to visit Kira Sedgwick Donna in Syracuse and sees the

1006
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,519
protests there. I think it does, doesn't it.

1007
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:23,159
Speaker 1: Ooh, that's a good question.

1008
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:27,239
Speaker 2: I don't remember, you know, Gosh, you were talking about

1009
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:29,599
this too. Is when I was talking about when Ronnie

1010
00:53:29,639 --> 00:53:32,920
comes home, right, and this particular town has lost a

1011
00:53:33,039 --> 00:53:36,960
handful if not more young boys to this war, and

1012
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:40,039
ron as a survivor, and then we do see there's

1013
00:53:40,039 --> 00:53:43,199
another scene where he's with his best friend Timmy from

1014
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:46,000
the neighborhood, who also went to the war and was wounded,

1015
00:53:46,679 --> 00:53:49,599
and then they're shooting the shit about all the other

1016
00:53:49,679 --> 00:53:52,599
guys from the area. That didn't make it and kind

1017
00:53:52,639 --> 00:53:54,440
of laughing about it because that's the only thing they

1018
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:58,039
can do. That's how they deal with it. Now Ron

1019
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:01,400
is hanging out with Tim and just get and shitfaced

1020
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:04,800
because he's self medicating clearly and covering all of this

1021
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:08,639
trauma that is swelling up within him. And this is

1022
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:13,400
the release, and it's it's brutal. Yeah, he's very entire

1023
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:18,039
he's clearly extremely intoxicated, but now his true feelings are

1024
00:54:18,079 --> 00:54:21,480
coming up because he's seen the protests or he knows

1025
00:54:21,559 --> 00:54:24,480
of them. He knows of this anti war sentiment and

1026
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:29,639
also is starting to understand the anger and clearly has

1027
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:32,239
so much anger within himself for you know, and there

1028
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:34,199
is a lot of self pity and self loathing in

1029
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:37,199
the scene, so he's playing that and there's so much

1030
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:39,960
denial on his mother's part too, and she's playing it

1031
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:43,000
to a tigue. And credit to Caroline Kava as the actress.

1032
00:54:43,639 --> 00:54:48,039
So there's so many levels going on here, and it

1033
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:52,239
ends up in that verbal explosion and to even put

1034
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:56,000
a little comedy in it when he's screaming penis, you

1035
00:54:56,079 --> 00:54:58,079
can't help but laugh a little bit because it's so

1036
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:04,039
awkward but emotional, like it's just everything all at once,

1037
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:08,000
so it's a really heavy scene. And then to have

1038
00:55:08,199 --> 00:55:11,599
it reach that crescendo in that height of volume, to

1039
00:55:11,719 --> 00:55:14,159
have it come back down when he finally goes back

1040
00:55:14,159 --> 00:55:15,840
to his room and his dad is putting him to

1041
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:18,559
bed and saying, hey, I think it's best that you

1042
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:22,480
go to Mexico, which is going to be you know,

1043
00:55:22,559 --> 00:55:24,760
I'm gonna kind of touch upon that next here in

1044
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:26,880
my next favorite scene. But yeah, this whole thing is

1045
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:30,480
it's a tour to force of performances and playing different

1046
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:34,320
emotional levels, so they're all going through it here. It

1047
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:38,880
all boils over in this scene. So yeah, my next

1048
00:55:39,159 --> 00:55:43,280
favorite scene is I'm calling it. Ron finds some kind

1049
00:55:43,559 --> 00:55:49,960
of release or maybe relief. So upon his father's suggestion,

1050
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:54,760
Ron goes to Via Dulce or Via Dulce in Mexico,

1051
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:59,440
which is a veteran retreat, a veteran camp, as you

1052
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:02,079
put it, Bill, or you know, in an area where

1053
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:06,800
expats congregate. And here in this particular town, we have

1054
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:11,000
a lot of disabled veterans where they're on permanent vacation.

1055
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:14,920
Let's just put it that way. And Ron goes down

1056
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:16,760
there and just kind of has his eyes opened by

1057
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:21,280
this scene where he meets these other disabled veterans gambling

1058
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:24,360
and drinking their existence away, and he sees and learns

1059
00:56:24,519 --> 00:56:27,639
of all the prostitutes that hang out here, and it's

1060
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:30,199
clearly a lifestyle, it's a way of doing things. It's

1061
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:34,719
a transactional relationship benefiting everyone, and it's a little bit

1062
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:37,719
of respite carved out here in this town in Mexico

1063
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:40,559
for these veterans. So he goes to the local watering

1064
00:56:40,639 --> 00:56:43,599
hole and he meets a beautiful hooker in her name

1065
00:56:44,039 --> 00:56:48,519
is Maria Elena. Shout out to Cordelia Gonzalez as the

1066
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:53,960
prostitute Maria Elena. She takes him upstairs, she asks him

1067
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:56,920
for the money up front, and Ron makes it very

1068
00:56:57,119 --> 00:57:00,079
very clear that his lower extremities do not work, and

1069
00:57:00,159 --> 00:57:03,840
she doesn't care. She still undresses him, straddles him, she

1070
00:57:04,159 --> 00:57:07,360
rides him, and she orgasms, or at least does a

1071
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:11,920
hell of a job pretending she's orgasming, and throughout this

1072
00:57:12,199 --> 00:57:16,360
entire sequence she's quite tender with him, and she's obviously

1073
00:57:16,639 --> 00:57:20,800
done this with other veterans, and she's quite experienced at

1074
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:24,480
what she does. She's a professional. And this is a

1075
00:57:24,679 --> 00:57:28,400
scene that definitely makes you feel a lot of things

1076
00:57:28,559 --> 00:57:33,960
because Ron can't feel anything. He knows it. He's scared

1077
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:40,400
in this scene and he's embarrassed, and he has needs

1078
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:44,719
those still to receive affection and to feel love of

1079
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:47,880
some kind, if it is only maybe it's even if

1080
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:50,719
it's just sexual and it's just in his mind or

1081
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:56,039
in his heart. But Ron breaks down multiple times. He

1082
00:57:56,239 --> 00:58:02,840
is full out crying while she is making love to him,

1083
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:06,960
even if it's fake, if it's just for pretend. So

1084
00:58:07,239 --> 00:58:11,039
he's just going through everything, and it is again a

1085
00:58:11,239 --> 00:58:14,440
release on so many levels for him because you feel

1086
00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:18,159
so terrible for him and you know what he's dealing

1087
00:58:18,199 --> 00:58:21,119
with initially. But I think his crying, if you will,

1088
00:58:21,159 --> 00:58:23,400
and again credit to Cruz for this, is that it

1089
00:58:24,039 --> 00:58:29,039
transitions from that self loathing to almost a thank God,

1090
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:33,039
I'm feeling something here and I'm able to feel some

1091
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:37,000
sort of connection with a woman and to feel her

1092
00:58:37,159 --> 00:58:39,239
touch and to know what that feels like, because he

1093
00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:41,719
can still feel things from the chest up and he

1094
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:44,840
can see he still has emotions and he still has thoughts.

1095
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:49,119
So after the sequence, he comes back down to the

1096
00:58:49,199 --> 00:58:52,679
area with all the other veterans gambling and drinking away

1097
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:57,639
and there's Willem Dafoe as Charlie. His character is introduced

1098
00:58:57,679 --> 00:59:01,320
and down here in this setting, and Willem Dafoe is

1099
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:03,760
quite experienced in the ways of the ladies, the ways

1100
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:06,039
of the women of the night here, and so he

1101
00:59:06,199 --> 00:59:09,039
sees the smile on Ron Kovic's face after Ron has

1102
00:59:09,119 --> 00:59:12,840
had his time with Maria Elena, and Dafoe says, she

1103
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:16,079
loves you, right, tiger, and you just see rod Kovic

1104
00:59:16,199 --> 00:59:18,400
likes smiling, going, yeah, thanks a lot, it was great,

1105
00:59:18,719 --> 00:59:22,480
and says, just remember, keep one hand on our tits

1106
00:59:22,519 --> 00:59:26,960
and one on your wallet. Paradise, right man. It's just

1107
00:59:27,519 --> 00:59:31,719
Defoe's the shit man. And it just appears that Ron

1108
00:59:31,960 --> 00:59:35,800
is smitten. He's quite taken with Maria Elena, and in

1109
00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:37,679
the next sequence he seems to be on top of

1110
00:59:37,719 --> 00:59:41,280
the world, wheeling his wheelchair through town and he finds

1111
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:43,679
a store where he buys Maria a gift, and when

1112
00:59:43,719 --> 00:59:47,199
he returns to the bar slash brothel, he sees Maria

1113
00:59:47,239 --> 00:59:50,840
Elena coming down the stairs with another man and she's

1114
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:55,440
actually grabbing his crutch, and immediately he is broken hearted.

1115
00:59:55,920 --> 00:59:59,639
But Maria Elena just sees this as business and comes

1116
00:59:59,719 --> 01:00:03,599
over to Ron and says, so we get married today. No,

1117
01:00:04,519 --> 01:00:09,320
and in a very sarcastic direct manner, Ron responds, yeah, yeah,

1118
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:14,840
that'd be great. So heartbreaking. But ladies and gentlemen listeners,

1119
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:18,400
we understand it's tough choosing. These aren't like favorite scenes

1120
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:20,639
in the way that they feel good scenes. There's no

1121
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:24,840
real feel good scenes in this movie. They're just great scenes.

1122
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:27,280
And this is, for me, another great scene where it's

1123
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:31,440
just Ron going through it one day at a time,

1124
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:35,239
one stage at a time, and learning what it is

1125
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:38,400
going to be like living paralyzed. Yeah.

1126
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:40,840
Speaker 1: Well, we say favorite scenes is a scene that hits

1127
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:43,360
us in some sort of way. And I understand why

1128
01:00:43,519 --> 01:00:48,320
you chose this, because this whole movie is Ron being

1129
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:52,360
so innocent about stuff and almost kind of learning after

1130
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:55,559
the fact. And again here it is with Maria. This

1131
01:00:55,760 --> 01:00:59,760
woman takes them upstairs and they do what they can

1132
01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:04,159
with what they have functioning. And because I mean Ron

1133
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:07,199
is a virgin, Yeah, he thinks he's fallen in love

1134
01:01:07,719 --> 01:01:10,360
when he doesn't realize. Like when you meet the other Vets,

1135
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:12,239
they understand. They're like, Hey, we're getting money from the

1136
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:14,480
government and we're just going to spend it on women

1137
01:01:14,599 --> 01:01:18,079
and tequila. So they know what they're doing down there.

1138
01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:22,000
Ron still near to the game and he doesn't understand

1139
01:01:22,079 --> 01:01:25,159
until it's too late, and it hurts. Yeah, you feel

1140
01:01:25,159 --> 01:01:26,599
bad for a little bit. But he has the gift

1141
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:28,840
and you just see him kind of try to tuck

1142
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:31,920
it before she comes over to talk to him. What

1143
01:01:32,079 --> 01:01:34,039
did you expect? He really thinks she's going to run

1144
01:01:34,079 --> 01:01:37,199
off with you. I don't know, So it just hurts.

1145
01:01:37,239 --> 01:01:39,639
He's got to learn that really fast and learned hard.

1146
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:41,840
So it's a tough scene, but it hits.

1147
01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:46,320
Speaker 2: It hits, Yeah, it hits hard. And credit to Cordela Gonzalez.

1148
01:01:46,760 --> 01:01:49,599
She's really good in a scene. She's so tender with him.

1149
01:01:50,199 --> 01:01:55,119
She's very attractive, and she is so confident and she

1150
01:01:55,400 --> 01:01:58,480
really takes care of him. Yes, so I appreciated that.

1151
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:02,840
It is a very experience for him, but you're absolutely right,

1152
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:06,000
he does fall in love. It is this continuing journey

1153
01:02:06,000 --> 01:02:08,480
from innocence to experience and it's a quick lesson and

1154
01:02:08,559 --> 01:02:11,559
a hard lesson for him to learn. So great scene.

1155
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:16,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well for me, for my final scene, a favorite scene,

1156
01:02:16,039 --> 01:02:18,320
but it's a scene that really stands out and very

1157
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:23,159
impactful is when Ron goes to the Wilson's home to

1158
01:02:23,239 --> 01:02:26,239
tell him what happened to his son in Vietnam. So

1159
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:30,079
early in the movie, when Ron is in Vietnam, he

1160
01:02:30,199 --> 01:02:33,840
meets this soldier that's just come on to their battalion.

1161
01:02:34,039 --> 01:02:37,480
His name's Wilson, and they're talking a little bit and

1162
01:02:38,199 --> 01:02:41,360
he finds out that Wilson's from Georgia. Of course, Wilson

1163
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:43,480
has the trope you see all the time. It's got

1164
01:02:43,599 --> 01:02:45,599
to show the picture of his girl, and the girl's pregnant,

1165
01:02:45,719 --> 01:02:49,360
so you know something's gonna happen to Wilson. And sure enough,

1166
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:51,760
they come on to this village, they shoot it up.

1167
01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:55,800
They realized they killed a lot of innocent women and children,

1168
01:02:56,159 --> 01:02:58,559
and then the Vietnam soldiers come in, so now it's

1169
01:02:58,639 --> 01:03:01,400
just chaos there all trying to fall back and they're

1170
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:05,960
just shooting at anything that moves. Kovic accidentally kills Wilson

1171
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:08,800
because Wilson's coming over a hill just screaming and yelling,

1172
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:11,440
and because of the son all he sees a silhouette,

1173
01:03:11,559 --> 01:03:14,920
so he just shoots. Unfortunately, kills Wilson. He tries to

1174
01:03:15,039 --> 01:03:18,320
report it. Commanders don't want to hear it. Ron has

1175
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:21,880
this guilt and when he's in Mexico. He tries to

1176
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:24,679
write a letter to the family to let them know

1177
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:27,239
what happened to their son. And then it gets to

1178
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:30,000
the point where Ron is now going to go visit

1179
01:03:30,159 --> 01:03:33,159
Wilson's family, and it starts off against in a cab.

1180
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:37,760
He goes of the cemetery, he sees Wilson's gravestone, and

1181
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:41,559
then he goes to the house. We meet Wilson's parents

1182
01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:47,920
and Wilson's wife, who is Lily Taylor, who has a

1183
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:50,119
small role. Like I said, you you see a lot

1184
01:03:50,159 --> 01:03:51,880
of these names in the credits, and they're very in

1185
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:55,679
for short periods of time. Lily's there with the baby,

1186
01:03:56,039 --> 01:04:00,280
who's probably maybe two at this point, and Ron tells them,

1187
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:02,719
I knew your son. I know what happened to the

1188
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:04,840
day he died. He goes, I remember the day he

1189
01:04:05,039 --> 01:04:08,599
was killed. It was a strange day. We were out

1190
01:04:08,639 --> 01:04:12,079
on patrol near a beach area and it was very confusing.

1191
01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:16,280
And while Ron's trying to tell the story, like you

1192
01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:18,440
could see in his eyes or they're just starting to

1193
01:04:18,559 --> 01:04:20,960
well because this just build up. He's just got to

1194
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:25,039
get this off his chest, and they were screaming and firing.

1195
01:04:25,239 --> 01:04:27,920
It was getting late, and there were these children, these

1196
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:31,760
babies that we killed by mistake, and miss Wilson comes

1197
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:35,320
to him with how awful, and Ron continues and then

1198
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:37,960
they got really crazy and we had to pull back

1199
01:04:38,079 --> 01:04:41,480
because the NBA were coming up on us, and we

1200
01:04:41,599 --> 01:04:44,840
got scattered in the dunes. People were yelling at anything,

1201
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:48,400
firing at anything, and that's when it happened. And when

1202
01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:51,159
he says that, you can tell that at least mister

1203
01:04:51,239 --> 01:04:56,920
Wilson knows where this story is unfortunately going. I was confused, scared.

1204
01:04:57,440 --> 01:05:00,679
I raised my rifle three times in shots. The body

1205
01:05:00,719 --> 01:05:03,960
fell on the dunes. God, this is this is very

1206
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:06,280
difficult for me to say. Mister Wilson cuts in, like,

1207
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:09,159
we don't have to hear this Ron, and Ron comes

1208
01:05:09,239 --> 01:05:12,440
back with but, mister Wilson, I think I was the

1209
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:14,960
one that killed your son that night. I was the one.

1210
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:20,840
I was the one. I was the one. And Jamie,

1211
01:05:21,039 --> 01:05:26,000
who's really Taylor the wife says what's done is done, Sir,

1212
01:05:26,519 --> 01:05:29,800
I can't ever forgive you, but maybe the Lord can.

1213
01:05:30,559 --> 01:05:34,119
And then Ron's parents, Missus Wilson says, we understand Ron,

1214
01:05:34,199 --> 01:05:36,840
we understand the pain you've been going through, and they

1215
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:41,199
seem to forgive them, which that's gotta be a tough

1216
01:05:41,239 --> 01:05:45,360
thing to do for the parents, but I think, understanding

1217
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:47,800
everything that's been going on, it's got to be tough,

1218
01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:50,519
but what you know, what can you do? So I

1219
01:05:50,679 --> 01:05:53,159
pluted to the fact that they were able to forgive them,

1220
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:56,199
and I think even what Jamie said made a lot

1221
01:05:56,280 --> 01:05:58,960
of sense. It's like, yeah, I can't forgive you, but

1222
01:05:59,599 --> 01:06:02,880
in a way I almost kind of do. And then

1223
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:05,239
we see Ron get wheel chaired out to the cab

1224
01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:08,440
and then he takes off, and then that's when really

1225
01:06:08,519 --> 01:06:11,079
he decides that he's going to speak out against the war.

1226
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:12,360
Speaker 2: So I'd like this.

1227
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:14,639
Speaker 1: Moment, this is like the final thing he needs to

1228
01:06:14,719 --> 01:06:18,559
do to really move forward with his life. And the

1229
01:06:18,639 --> 01:06:21,400
fact that he can go into that family's home and

1230
01:06:21,599 --> 01:06:25,559
sit there and tell them and he's not asking for forgiveness,

1231
01:06:25,719 --> 01:06:28,800
He just wants them to know what happened to their son,

1232
01:06:29,679 --> 01:06:33,920
to me, was tough. It's a powerful acting moment from Cruise.

1233
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:37,880
Speaker 2: A million percent on this one. Yeah, this scene I

1234
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:42,320
definitely remembered before this rewatch because it is the most

1235
01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:47,039
impactful and this is basically the final part of the

1236
01:06:47,159 --> 01:06:50,519
turn that he makes before going into you know, a

1237
01:06:50,599 --> 01:06:55,440
stage of activism. So yeah, it's awful to have to

1238
01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:57,800
do this, but I think he comes to a point

1239
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:01,760
where this guilt and shame, it literally was eating him alive,

1240
01:07:01,840 --> 01:07:05,280
and this was how he decided to unburden that and

1241
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:09,039
felt obviously that the family needed to know what really happened,

1242
01:07:09,079 --> 01:07:11,639
that they needed to know the truth. And I think

1243
01:07:11,920 --> 01:07:16,599
that is clearly another huge motivation because what has upset

1244
01:07:16,719 --> 01:07:19,239
him so much and so many others so much is

1245
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:22,480
that there's been such lack of truth and too many

1246
01:07:22,599 --> 01:07:27,400
lies and it's time for brutal honesty on all fronts.

1247
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:30,800
So this is him making an effort to be honest

1248
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:34,880
with himself and with them and nothing short of extremely emotional.

1249
01:07:35,239 --> 01:07:38,679
So to get the mixed reactions I thought was very

1250
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:42,800
smart and the performances just from the supporting actors in

1251
01:07:42,840 --> 01:07:45,599
the scene were brilliant, So great to see Lily Taylor.

1252
01:07:45,760 --> 01:07:49,039
Always love that actress, Yes, we loved her and Mystic

1253
01:07:49,079 --> 01:07:50,840
Pizza of course with that, I think she was the

1254
01:07:50,880 --> 01:07:53,400
big standout for us in that podcast when we recovered that,

1255
01:07:53,559 --> 01:07:56,840
So to see her in this particular small role was

1256
01:07:57,079 --> 01:08:01,719
a change, but a welcome revisit with her. So he

1257
01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:03,320
had to call out that scene for sure.

1258
01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:08,800
Speaker 1: That was a must. Yeah. Okay, let's move on to

1259
01:08:08,920 --> 01:08:12,239
our Swiss cheese and complaints apartment. And why don't we call.

1260
01:08:12,199 --> 01:08:15,719
Speaker 2: Swiss cheese because although this movie is delicious, it does

1261
01:08:15,880 --> 01:08:17,319
have flag burning holes.

1262
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:20,000
Speaker 1: Yes, and it doesn't have those flag burning holes. We

1263
01:08:20,159 --> 01:08:23,079
just found a complaint with the complaints apartment. So Jason,

1264
01:08:23,079 --> 01:08:23,439
what do you have?

1265
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:27,840
Speaker 2: Yeah? I got a few complaints, one being that awesome

1266
01:08:27,960 --> 01:08:31,039
scene at the prom when he just walks up to

1267
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:34,840
Donna and cuts in. I was like, dude, I appreciate

1268
01:08:34,880 --> 01:08:37,359
what you're doing, but I felt bad for her. Date

1269
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:39,840
was his name, Todd? I think something like that. I

1270
01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:41,840
think so he doesn't he barely gets in a word.

1271
01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:43,560
I think he's like he says, maybe you hear it,

1272
01:08:43,720 --> 01:08:46,399
like kind of offscreen, like whoa like looking at Ron

1273
01:08:46,399 --> 01:08:49,039
because he's all wet from running through the rain. But man,

1274
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:51,720
you just butt in like that. Thought he could have

1275
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:53,520
been a little more polite in that moment.

1276
01:08:54,920 --> 01:08:57,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, a little tough for him. I just feel bad

1277
01:08:57,640 --> 01:09:01,920
for him momentarily. It's just my big complaint. You know.

1278
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:04,560
We just have to remember that even though this movie

1279
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:08,079
is based on an autobiography, you know seems have to

1280
01:09:08,159 --> 01:09:11,760
be enhanced for dramatic effect, So we know the overall

1281
01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:15,399
story is basically true, but there's going to be elements

1282
01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:19,039
that are written up to pull out our dramatic heart strings.

1283
01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:21,119
Just remember that one watching.

1284
01:09:20,880 --> 01:09:25,760
Speaker 2: It, Okay, good point, good point. I found I love

1285
01:09:25,840 --> 01:09:28,560
Frank Wally. I liked him in this a lot. He's

1286
01:09:28,600 --> 01:09:31,520
always great. I didn't care for his wig in this one.

1287
01:09:31,720 --> 01:09:34,640
It's a little distract His hair was a little distracting

1288
01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:37,279
to me. And when he has his big scene with

1289
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:39,760
Ron when they're sitting out in the backyard on the

1290
01:09:39,840 --> 01:09:43,399
beent and like sitting on the picnic table and talking

1291
01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:47,720
about their buddies that they lost, and you have actually

1292
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:51,319
another great moment from Tom Cruise talking about why didn't

1293
01:09:51,319 --> 01:09:53,039
I just stay down? Why did I feel like I

1294
01:09:53,119 --> 01:09:54,800
had to get up and be a hero or change

1295
01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:57,079
my life and I just could have stayed down. Whatever

1296
01:09:57,680 --> 01:10:01,119
those lines were. Excuse me for paraphrasing. It looks like

1297
01:10:01,479 --> 01:10:04,880
Timmy played by Frank Wally, has like there's a line

1298
01:10:05,039 --> 01:10:07,640
across his forehead that's clear, and it doesn't look like

1299
01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:10,319
just the wrinkles in his forehead like natural. I'm like,

1300
01:10:10,560 --> 01:10:14,840
is that literally just just a bad makeup cover up

1301
01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:18,920
where that's where his cap wig starts his wig cap.

1302
01:10:19,439 --> 01:10:21,920
It was pretty obvious to me. Maybe it's just watching

1303
01:10:21,960 --> 01:10:23,960
it in HD or whatever, but I was like, ooh,

1304
01:10:24,439 --> 01:10:27,399
that's really distracting in this kind of emotional scene here.

1305
01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:30,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I was more disturbed by some of

1306
01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:33,640
the mustaches in this than the wigs. There. It got,

1307
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:36,720
but I think I know what happened with Frank. He

1308
01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:39,520
was literally coming from another film. He was that's right,

1309
01:10:39,880 --> 01:10:41,840
so that might have been it. They just kind of

1310
01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:44,399
threw that on his head and go get to work.

1311
01:10:44,479 --> 01:10:46,520
Speaker 2: Pal, Did you have more on that in the trivia

1312
01:10:46,600 --> 01:10:49,319
because I can mention it real quick here. I'll I

1313
01:10:49,359 --> 01:10:52,119
don't want to butcher it, but no, go ahead. He

1314
01:10:52,439 --> 01:10:55,279
literally was had gotten on a like a red eye

1315
01:10:55,319 --> 01:10:57,479
flight or something like that. He had to fly right

1316
01:10:57,560 --> 01:11:00,000
from one shoot to the next and had not memorize

1317
01:11:00,279 --> 01:11:03,159
his lines for this scene. Yeah, it's a big scene,

1318
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:06,520
it is, and Olie Stone was not happy about it,

1319
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:10,600
supposedly what I read. But then Frank Waally was like,

1320
01:11:10,720 --> 01:11:12,840
and I think either I think Tom Cruise took him

1321
01:11:12,840 --> 01:11:16,039
aside and they just worked on it. Like four He's like,

1322
01:11:16,079 --> 01:11:18,039
give me ten minutes, give me fifteen minutes. Whatever it was,

1323
01:11:18,119 --> 01:11:21,319
they nailed it down together and he got it clearly then.

1324
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:23,479
And it says this very much so in the research

1325
01:11:23,560 --> 01:11:27,439
that Oliver Stone clearly forgave him because he's used him

1326
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:30,399
then afterwards in the following films. So that was good

1327
01:11:30,439 --> 01:11:30,640
to hear.

1328
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:31,239
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1329
01:11:31,479 --> 01:11:33,600
Speaker 2: I was a little critical of some of that wig work,

1330
01:11:33,640 --> 01:11:35,760
and yeah, I guess the mustache work too in this.

1331
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:39,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, some of it was a little bit distracting. The

1332
01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:42,199
only other thing I had was I just kind of

1333
01:11:42,239 --> 01:11:44,720
wanted to know, like what happened to Timmy, what happened

1334
01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:49,039
to Tommy, what happened to Donna? Especially Tommy because Ron's

1335
01:11:49,199 --> 01:11:52,800
brother and he's anti war. Yeah, and they kind of

1336
01:11:52,920 --> 01:11:54,920
have I don't want to say it falling out, but

1337
01:11:55,399 --> 01:11:56,800
they do exchange words.

1338
01:11:57,159 --> 01:12:01,079
Speaker 2: Oh it's a significant scene. Yeah, so dies that go right?

1339
01:12:01,399 --> 01:12:05,439
Speaker 1: Did they think work things out? Or I felt like

1340
01:12:05,479 --> 01:12:08,920
I was left hanging of him? Of the three I mentioned, you.

1341
01:12:08,920 --> 01:12:11,720
Speaker 2: Would really feel like there this is the kind of

1342
01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:14,119
film that would have that epilogue with all of the

1343
01:12:14,279 --> 01:12:18,920
text with describing what had happened to each of the

1344
01:12:19,399 --> 01:12:22,960
main or major characters that were featured, Whether it be

1345
01:12:23,079 --> 01:12:28,880
Willie from the VA Hospital or Timmy or Tommy or Donna. Yeah, absolutely,

1346
01:12:29,199 --> 01:12:31,640
it would you really like this is the movie that's

1347
01:12:31,680 --> 01:12:33,279
tailor made for that kind of thing, but we don't

1348
01:12:33,319 --> 01:12:36,239
get it. Yeah, yeah, all right, that's all I got.

1349
01:12:36,680 --> 01:12:40,000
Speaker 1: Okay, let's move on to Hey, It's that actor. So

1350
01:12:40,239 --> 01:12:43,079
this segment we spotlight a character actor you have seen

1351
01:12:43,119 --> 01:12:46,279
in many other films, an actor making their big screen debut,

1352
01:12:46,760 --> 01:12:49,880
or an actor that makes an uncredited cameo. Hey it's

1353
01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:52,760
that actor, and who do we choose this week? And

1354
01:12:53,640 --> 01:12:55,199
this could be one of those movies we could just

1355
01:12:55,279 --> 01:12:56,399
do an episode.

1356
01:12:56,039 --> 01:12:58,319
Speaker 2: On Hey, yeah, who do you not choose?

1357
01:12:58,720 --> 01:12:58,880
Speaker 1: Yes?

1358
01:12:59,359 --> 01:13:04,359
Speaker 2: So this week our Hey It's that actor is R. D. Call.

1359
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:06,520
His name is r D the initials.

1360
01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:07,159
Speaker 1: R D.

1361
01:13:07,760 --> 01:13:11,199
Speaker 2: Call is his last name, and he portrays the chaplain

1362
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:14,319
in a brief sequence, a brief scene that happens in

1363
01:13:14,399 --> 01:13:18,720
the triage tent right after the fight firefight in Vietnam

1364
01:13:18,960 --> 01:13:23,800
where ron Kovic is shot and wounded. Our D Call

1365
01:13:24,039 --> 01:13:26,840
is an American actor, maybe best known for his roles

1366
01:13:26,880 --> 01:13:31,399
in films directed by Walter Hill. However, in this I

1367
01:13:31,600 --> 01:13:35,319
recognized him right away and also really liked his brief

1368
01:13:35,359 --> 01:13:38,479
scene it's quite jarring. It's almost ya, just really jarring,

1369
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:41,960
as he is extremely direct with ron Kovic but has

1370
01:13:42,119 --> 01:13:46,119
this slight twinge of empathy under this high pressure circumstance

1371
01:13:46,199 --> 01:13:50,119
in this triage tent where you have an injured ron Kovic.

1372
01:13:50,199 --> 01:13:52,960
That's like, I need to be operated on because he

1373
01:13:53,039 --> 01:13:57,600
knows he's been severely injured. And the chaplain RD Call says,

1374
01:13:57,840 --> 01:13:59,479
the doctors are real busy right now. There's a lot

1375
01:13:59,479 --> 01:14:01,800
of wounded here today, no time for anything except trying

1376
01:14:01,840 --> 01:14:04,079
to stay alive. So you've got to try and stay alive. Okay,

1377
01:14:04,520 --> 01:14:07,760
you hear me, try and stay alive. And then immediately

1378
01:14:07,880 --> 01:14:10,880
afterwards says I've come to give you your last rites.

1379
01:14:11,199 --> 01:14:16,199
Are you ready? It's like, oh my god, it's brutal. Yeah,

1380
01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:20,640
so already calls trademarks of yeah, our tough guy rolls

1381
01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:23,880
and his mustache. Funny enough, he has a pretty solid

1382
01:14:24,000 --> 01:14:26,399
mustache in this I think that's actually his mustache, so

1383
01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:29,640
looks good in this movie. His eighties Snapshot does a

1384
01:14:30,720 --> 01:14:33,960
lot of TV series episode appearances and shows like Heart

1385
01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:37,039
to Heart, Little House on the Prairie General Hospital. He's

1386
01:14:37,199 --> 01:14:40,319
a duty sergeant in Forty eight Hours in eighty two,

1387
01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:42,560
like was he in the precinct sequence that you broke?

1388
01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:43,680
Speaker 1: I don't remember him either.

1389
01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:47,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's an episode of the show V in nineteen

1390
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:51,239
eighty five. He's a courtroom guard in Brewster's Millions in

1391
01:14:51,359 --> 01:14:54,960
eighty five. He plays the role Dickie in At Close

1392
01:14:55,119 --> 01:14:58,720
Range in eighty six, then No Man's Land in nineteen

1393
01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:00,720
eighty seven, which we have to do on this podcast.

1394
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:02,680
Bill Band got to do No Man's Land at some point.

1395
01:15:03,159 --> 01:15:05,359
He's in Colors in eighty eight, the TV movie La

1396
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:08,039
Takedown in eighty nine, and then this Born in the

1397
01:15:08,039 --> 01:15:10,920
Fourth of July and eighty nine. Other notables Young Guns two.

1398
01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:14,960
My particular favorite performance of his and why I know

1399
01:15:15,119 --> 01:15:17,560
him well is from the film State of Grace, where

1400
01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:21,039
he plays character Nicholson. Awesome, very menacing. He's in other

1401
01:15:21,079 --> 01:15:23,760
People's Money, waterworled, Last Man's Standing. Babbel Into the Wild,

1402
01:15:23,840 --> 01:15:27,359
did a lot more TV and Artie Call did, unfortunately

1403
01:15:27,399 --> 01:15:30,359
pass away in twenty twenty at the young age of seventy.

1404
01:15:30,760 --> 01:15:33,760
Little trivia, he appeared in two films that were nominated

1405
01:15:33,760 --> 01:15:35,640
for Best Picture, Oscar Born in the Fourth of July

1406
01:15:35,840 --> 01:15:38,920
and Babel. Babbel was in two thousand and six. Both

1407
01:15:38,960 --> 01:15:41,840
are winners of the Golden Globe Motion Picture in the

1408
01:15:41,920 --> 01:15:45,479
category of Drama. He has worked with Sean Penn multiple

1409
01:15:45,560 --> 01:15:48,760
times in At Close Range, Colors, Judgment in Berlin, State

1410
01:15:48,800 --> 01:15:51,720
of Grace, I Am Sam, and Into the Wild So

1411
01:15:52,039 --> 01:15:54,319
ARTI call is our Hey, it's that actor this week.

1412
01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:57,079
Speaker 1: That's definitely one of those I recognize him right away,

1413
01:15:57,319 --> 01:16:00,359
but could not for the life of me. But yeah,

1414
01:16:00,720 --> 01:16:03,760
he definitely defines the hands that actor. Okay, let's move

1415
01:16:03,800 --> 01:16:06,479
on to facts and trivia. What are some facts of

1416
01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:08,560
trivia we have about Born the fourth of July.

1417
01:16:09,119 --> 01:16:13,600
Speaker 2: The real ron Kovic gave Tom Cruise his Bronze Star

1418
01:16:14,479 --> 01:16:15,920
for his performance in the movie.

1419
01:16:16,439 --> 01:16:20,640
Speaker 1: Nice, that's that's like, that's huge. Yeah, that's a big deal.

1420
01:16:20,880 --> 01:16:22,800
Speaker 2: So now I've like, if I met Tom Cruise, like

1421
01:16:23,000 --> 01:16:24,800
right now today, I'd be like, where do you keep

1422
01:16:24,840 --> 01:16:25,439
the bronze Star?

1423
01:16:26,199 --> 01:16:28,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, that'd be a good question. All right, We've been

1424
01:16:28,319 --> 01:16:31,840
talking about the cast and crew and all that, But yes,

1425
01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:35,960
including cameos by Oliver Stone, there are at least eleven

1426
01:16:36,279 --> 01:16:40,159
other actors credited in this film that also appeared in

1427
01:16:40,359 --> 01:16:44,279
Oliver Stone's earlier Vietnam War film Platoon. Some of the

1428
01:16:44,359 --> 01:16:48,640
highlights include Tom Barringer, who was gunnery Sergeant Hayes. We

1429
01:16:48,760 --> 01:16:52,439
also mentioned Willem Dafoe, who is Charlie John C McGinley

1430
01:16:52,880 --> 01:16:56,399
who was the official pushing Kovac's wheelchair at the end,

1431
01:16:56,680 --> 01:17:00,479
and Mark Moses, who was the doctor at the VA

1432
01:17:00,640 --> 01:17:04,640
hospital who ends up rebuilding that device to help Cruz

1433
01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:09,000
save his leg. Allow carry over from Platoon for sure,

1434
01:17:09,119 --> 01:17:11,640
Mark Moses, Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, it's.

1435
01:17:11,479 --> 01:17:14,359
Speaker 2: Funny because I see him, I recognize he easily could

1436
01:17:14,359 --> 01:17:17,119
have been a Hey, it's that actor. Yes, there's just

1437
01:17:17,199 --> 01:17:20,760
another one man. Producer Martin Bregman acquired the film rights

1438
01:17:20,760 --> 01:17:23,199
to the book in nineteen seventy six and hired Stone,

1439
01:17:23,640 --> 01:17:27,239
also a Vietnam vetteran, to co write the screenplay with Kovic,

1440
01:17:27,279 --> 01:17:32,680
who would be played by Al Pacino. When Stone optioned

1441
01:17:32,680 --> 01:17:34,880
the book in nineteen seventy eight, the film adaptation became

1442
01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:37,800
mired and developed in Hell after Paccino and Bregman left,

1443
01:17:37,920 --> 01:17:40,680
which resulted in him and Kovic putting the film on hold.

1444
01:17:40,960 --> 01:17:44,119
After the release of Platoon, the project was revived at

1445
01:17:44,239 --> 01:17:47,319
Universal Pictures with Stone attached to direct, and it was

1446
01:17:47,319 --> 01:17:51,640
shot on locations in the Philippines. Texas and Inglewood, California.

1447
01:17:51,760 --> 01:17:54,680
Principal photography took place from October to December in nineteen

1448
01:17:54,680 --> 01:17:57,840
eighty eight, lasting sixty five days of filming.

1449
01:17:58,119 --> 01:18:01,399
Speaker 1: All Right This Speaker at the Universe cea Syracuse protest

1450
01:18:01,680 --> 01:18:05,800
is played by iconic Sixties activist Abby Hoffman, who co

1451
01:18:05,960 --> 01:18:10,159
founded the Youth International Party Hippies and was a member

1452
01:18:10,319 --> 01:18:15,039
of the Chicago Seven. The Chicago Seven was charged with

1453
01:18:15,720 --> 01:18:20,119
and tried for activities during the nineteen sixty eight Democratic

1454
01:18:20,279 --> 01:18:24,640
National Convention for conspiracy to use interstate commerce with intent

1455
01:18:24,760 --> 01:18:28,039
to incite a riot and crossing state lines with the

1456
01:18:28,119 --> 01:18:31,960
intent to incite a riot under the Anti Riot provision

1457
01:18:32,119 --> 01:18:35,720
of Title X of the Civil Rights Act of nineteen

1458
01:18:35,960 --> 01:18:40,000
sixty eight. The twenty twenty Iron Sorkin film The Trial

1459
01:18:40,159 --> 01:18:44,079
of the Chicago Seven, which was dridded by Netflix, covers

1460
01:18:44,399 --> 01:18:47,359
that incident. By the time Born on the fourth of

1461
01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:51,439
July was released, Abby had unfortunately taken his own life.

1462
01:18:51,600 --> 01:18:54,640
The film is dedicated to him in the closing credits.

1463
01:18:55,159 --> 01:18:59,119
Speaker 2: Yeah. Tom Cruise spent one year preparing for the role.

1464
01:18:59,239 --> 01:19:02,319
He visited seven veterans hospitals, read various books on the

1465
01:19:02,399 --> 01:19:06,119
Vietnam waren practiced riding in a wheelchair. At one point

1466
01:19:06,239 --> 01:19:10,359
during pre production, Oliver Stone suggested that Cruise be injected

1467
01:19:10,439 --> 01:19:13,840
with a chemical drug that would render him paralyzed for

1468
01:19:14,000 --> 01:19:17,159
two days. Stone believed that the drug would help him

1469
01:19:17,199 --> 01:19:21,520
realistically portray the difficulties of being a paraplegic. The insurance

1470
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:25,840
company responsible for the film vetoed the idea, believing that

1471
01:19:25,960 --> 01:19:30,159
the drug would cause permanent incapacitation. That one I just

1472
01:19:30,279 --> 01:19:33,000
love reading about because it's like, not only does Oliver

1473
01:19:33,079 --> 01:19:35,319
Stone go all the way, but Cruse does too. And

1474
01:19:35,439 --> 01:19:37,119
I had read a little bit more about that where

1475
01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:40,720
Cruise seemed actually on board with it for a bit, yes,

1476
01:19:40,720 --> 01:19:42,680
and it all gets vew ot. It's like, oh my god,

1477
01:19:42,760 --> 01:19:45,239
you guys, what are we doing here? That's insane?

1478
01:19:45,479 --> 01:19:49,279
Speaker 1: Yep. So another possible haydside actor would have been character

1479
01:19:49,439 --> 01:19:52,720
actor Bob Gutten, who might be best known as the

1480
01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:56,079
warden in The Shawshak Retemption. In this movie, he plays

1481
01:19:56,119 --> 01:19:59,760
the doctor tells Ron about his paralysis. Bob was an

1482
01:19:59,800 --> 01:20:03,000
act real veteran of the Vietnam War, having served in

1483
01:20:03,039 --> 01:20:06,159
the US Army and earned a Bronze Star for his service.

1484
01:20:06,760 --> 01:20:11,199
Speaker 2: Cool all right. The entire film was shot in shades

1485
01:20:11,239 --> 01:20:13,920
of red, white, or blue, depending on the emotional level.

1486
01:20:14,119 --> 01:20:17,159
Battle scenes are all in reddish shoes, dream sequences in white,

1487
01:20:17,479 --> 01:20:20,560
sadness and blue, et cetera. See that's smart stuff. I

1488
01:20:21,359 --> 01:20:23,159
didn't even pick up on that. It's kind of on

1489
01:20:23,279 --> 01:20:25,239
a subconscious I know it's.

1490
01:20:24,960 --> 01:20:27,520
Speaker 1: Terrible because it's so obvious after you read that, and

1491
01:20:27,560 --> 01:20:29,039
you're like, why was there not seeing that when I

1492
01:20:29,079 --> 01:20:29,720
was watching the movie.

1493
01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:32,000
Speaker 2: I know. I'm just like, it's right there. Am I

1494
01:20:32,199 --> 01:20:36,920
even really a fan of film? That's when you go,

1495
01:20:37,119 --> 01:20:38,239
I'm questioning my own.

1496
01:20:38,560 --> 01:20:40,439
Speaker 1: Hopefully you don't have this one, because you've been praising

1497
01:20:40,520 --> 01:20:43,600
these two throughout the whole movie. So, Raymond J. Barry

1498
01:20:43,720 --> 01:20:47,279
and Caroline Kava, who play mister and Missus Kovak, parents

1499
01:20:47,359 --> 01:20:51,479
to Ronkovec, previously appeared together and You're the Dragon, a

1500
01:20:51,600 --> 01:20:54,920
movie which was co written by Oliver Stone. In that movie,

1501
01:20:55,199 --> 01:20:58,760
it's Raymond J. Barry who plays a Vietnam veteran.

1502
01:20:59,119 --> 01:21:02,520
Speaker 2: Ah, there you go. I didn't have that, but I

1503
01:21:02,680 --> 01:21:04,640
did come across it. But I'm glad you mentioned it.

1504
01:21:05,399 --> 01:21:08,119
So yeah, on prom night in the movie, Yes, Ronnie's Father,

1505
01:21:08,199 --> 01:21:11,800
we talked about this. Ronnie's father laments that Vietnam is

1506
01:21:11,800 --> 01:21:13,279
a long way to go to fight a war. Since

1507
01:21:13,680 --> 01:21:18,720
Hanoi is twelve time zones away from Massapequa, it is

1508
01:21:19,159 --> 01:21:22,199
literally the other side of the globe, making it the

1509
01:21:22,359 --> 01:21:23,880
absolute farthest.

1510
01:21:23,560 --> 01:21:27,000
Speaker 1: You could go crazy. I remember when I went to

1511
01:21:27,079 --> 01:21:30,640
Hong Kong and realizing, yeah, I was twelve hours away

1512
01:21:30,920 --> 01:21:33,399
from home, and how to keep going. Oh, yeah, it's

1513
01:21:33,439 --> 01:21:36,640
just I'm am there PM or vice versa. So weird.

1514
01:21:37,079 --> 01:21:38,840
Speaker 2: I don't know if I knew you went to Hong Kong.

1515
01:21:38,960 --> 01:21:39,359
When was that?

1516
01:21:39,840 --> 01:21:41,720
Speaker 1: Well, it was with the dolphins, so it was two

1517
01:21:41,840 --> 01:21:48,680
zoundands four mentioned it then yeah, yeah for Chinese New

1518
01:21:48,760 --> 01:21:51,920
Year's Wow, it was an interesting trip, I would imagine.

1519
01:21:52,600 --> 01:21:56,640
Twenty seven, David Brenner, not the comedian, was the youngest

1520
01:21:56,680 --> 01:22:00,359
person to win the Academy Award for Best Film Editing.

1521
01:22:00,680 --> 01:22:03,720
He was also the youngest to be nominated, tied with

1522
01:22:04,039 --> 01:22:08,199
Robert Wise for Citizen Kane back in nineteen forty one.

1523
01:22:08,840 --> 01:22:11,880
Speaker 2: Nice Love It, This is the last one I Got.

1524
01:22:12,279 --> 01:22:18,479
The film was cinematographer Robert Richardson's fifth collaboration with Stone,

1525
01:22:18,600 --> 01:22:21,760
and their first to be shot in the anamorphic format.

1526
01:22:22,600 --> 01:22:26,439
Richardson shot the film using panavision cameras and lesdism primarily

1527
01:22:26,720 --> 01:22:31,399
utilized thirty five millimeter film stocks. Sixteen millimeter and super

1528
01:22:31,520 --> 01:22:34,079
sixteen millimeter stocks were also used to film the scene

1529
01:22:34,119 --> 01:22:38,279
of COVID demonstrating at the nineteen seventy two Republican National Convention,

1530
01:22:38,800 --> 01:22:41,680
blended with archive footage of the actual event.

1531
01:22:42,159 --> 01:22:45,039
Speaker 1: Okay, let's move on to box office. So Born the

1532
01:22:45,039 --> 01:22:48,359
Fourth of July was released on December twentieth, nineteen eighty nine,

1533
01:22:48,479 --> 01:22:52,560
and four theaters. An estimated budget of fourteen million dollars,

1534
01:22:52,760 --> 01:22:55,880
it would grow seventy million dollars domestically. Born in the

1535
01:22:55,880 --> 01:22:58,960
Fourth of July would go into wide release on January fifth,

1536
01:22:59,119 --> 01:23:01,760
nineteen ninety It would be the number one movie for

1537
01:23:01,960 --> 01:23:05,359
three weeks straight. It drop to number two the following

1538
01:23:05,439 --> 01:23:08,199
week thanks to Driving Miss Daisy, but would stay in

1539
01:23:08,239 --> 01:23:11,279
the top ten for another eight weeks. Born the Fourth

1540
01:23:11,319 --> 01:23:15,319
of July would be the seventeenth highest grossing movie released

1541
01:23:15,399 --> 01:23:19,079
in nineteen eighty nine, behind one of my all time

1542
01:23:19,199 --> 01:23:21,479
favorite movies, Turner and Hooch.

1543
01:23:23,359 --> 01:23:23,680
Speaker 2: Nice.

1544
01:23:24,760 --> 01:23:27,720
Speaker 1: We're moving on to reviews. When growing up in the eighties,

1545
01:23:27,760 --> 01:23:29,920
we'd watch at the movies with Geene Siskel and Roger

1546
01:23:30,000 --> 01:23:33,520
Ebert to hear their reviews and watch clips of upcoming movies.

1547
01:23:33,960 --> 01:23:37,119
Their review of Born the fourth of July was unanimous

1548
01:23:37,479 --> 01:23:41,319
two thumbs up. Roger called it a great film with

1549
01:23:41,520 --> 01:23:46,399
a great performance. Gene credited Stone for courageously showing what

1550
01:23:46,600 --> 01:23:49,319
vets had to go through when seriously wounded in war,

1551
01:23:49,640 --> 01:23:52,800
the after effects, the damage a bullet could do to

1552
01:23:52,960 --> 01:23:58,079
one's body. It may make people uneasy, but it's memorable

1553
01:23:58,840 --> 01:24:01,880
Rotten Tomatoes because it to Memeter score of eighty four

1554
01:24:01,960 --> 01:24:06,159
percent with a Popcorn Meter score of seventy six percent.

1555
01:24:06,359 --> 01:24:09,840
It also has an IMDb rating of seven point two.

1556
01:24:10,399 --> 01:24:13,520
So this takes us to additional thoughts and questions, or

1557
01:24:13,640 --> 01:24:15,720
some additional thoughts and questions you have about Born the

1558
01:24:15,760 --> 01:24:16,239
fourth of July.

1559
01:24:16,680 --> 01:24:20,840
Speaker 2: Well, here's an additional thought. The word fuck is used

1560
01:24:20,920 --> 01:24:23,760
two hundred and eighty nine times throughout the film.

1561
01:24:24,680 --> 01:24:27,439
Speaker 1: There you go. I had that same thing written down

1562
01:24:27,520 --> 01:24:32,239
to do not play the fuck drinking game in this movie,

1563
01:24:32,439 --> 01:24:34,760
or you'll be dead by the second reel.

1564
01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:36,720
Speaker 2: You know. And that's it's great that you admitted that

1565
01:24:36,920 --> 01:24:40,760
to me or just told me that, because I meant

1566
01:24:40,800 --> 01:24:43,720
to actually ask you as like a trivia question do

1567
01:24:43,760 --> 01:24:46,720
you have like over or over under two hundred and

1568
01:24:46,800 --> 01:24:48,840
fifty times? What do you you know? How many times

1569
01:24:48,840 --> 01:24:50,479
do you think the word fuck was used in the movie?

1570
01:24:50,720 --> 01:24:52,840
But you already knew, so I.

1571
01:24:53,079 --> 01:24:54,880
Speaker 1: Probably would have said under, I didn't realize it was

1572
01:24:54,960 --> 01:24:57,439
used that much. Yeah, right, So this is interesting. Tom

1573
01:24:57,520 --> 01:25:01,279
Cruise's actual birthday is July third, stay often being born

1574
01:25:01,319 --> 01:25:02,000
on the fourt of July.

1575
01:25:02,439 --> 01:25:05,880
Speaker 2: Here's a question, yes, and I'm looking for your opinion.

1576
01:25:06,000 --> 01:25:09,600
Does it feel like this Tom Cruise movie is the

1577
01:25:09,800 --> 01:25:13,800
least talked about of Tom Cruise movies, like as far

1578
01:25:13,880 --> 01:25:16,880
as just popular culture over time when you think of

1579
01:25:16,960 --> 01:25:19,800
Tom Cruise and you get into discussions of his films.

1580
01:25:20,640 --> 01:25:24,880
He is nominated for Best Actor in this movie and

1581
01:25:25,720 --> 01:25:30,199
working with Oliver Stone, et cetera. But I just, yeah,

1582
01:25:30,600 --> 01:25:31,840
I don't know. I have my opinion.

1583
01:25:32,399 --> 01:25:35,880
Speaker 1: This was interesting because of course, you know, when you're

1584
01:25:35,920 --> 01:25:38,960
trying to do the research for this movie, you try

1585
01:25:39,000 --> 01:25:42,239
to find articles or whatnot. And there was an article

1586
01:25:42,840 --> 01:25:45,720
that ranked and I can't remember who wrote it, so

1587
01:25:45,960 --> 01:25:51,319
I apologize that ranked Tom Cruise's forty five movies that

1588
01:25:51,680 --> 01:25:54,720
he's had up to this point. And they had born

1589
01:25:54,760 --> 01:25:57,520
with the sports of July. Is this top film? Wow,

1590
01:25:57,920 --> 01:25:59,760
that's awesome. I was like, Oh, that might be in

1591
01:25:59,760 --> 01:26:02,560
the time ten. But I think you're right. This is

1592
01:26:02,640 --> 01:26:06,560
a movie of his that is not talked a lot

1593
01:26:06,680 --> 01:26:11,920
about because as I've met, he's considered a movie star,

1594
01:26:12,720 --> 01:26:15,600
and this is not a movie star type movie.

1595
01:26:15,880 --> 01:26:19,640
Speaker 2: It just feels like in it, like your typical nerdy

1596
01:26:19,880 --> 01:26:24,840
round table at the dinner table discussion among film fans,

1597
01:26:24,960 --> 01:26:26,720
this just doesn't come up that often.

1598
01:26:27,159 --> 01:26:30,600
Speaker 1: This isn't a movie I'm gonna pop in. It's one

1599
01:26:30,600 --> 01:26:32,680
of those good it's a it's a good movie, but

1600
01:26:32,760 --> 01:26:35,840
I'm not going to watch it, Like, oh what am

1601
01:26:35,840 --> 01:26:36,920
I in the mood for? Let me watch?

1602
01:26:38,279 --> 01:26:41,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. That's a great point because usually you actually,

1603
01:26:41,319 --> 01:26:44,760
when you are with your film buddies having the roundtable discussion,

1604
01:26:44,840 --> 01:26:47,720
you're talking about your your favorite moments and scenes and

1605
01:26:47,800 --> 01:26:49,680
actors from movies, and you're not going to be like, oh,

1606
01:26:49,800 --> 01:26:52,119
you remember that one scene from borderin Forest of July

1607
01:26:52,359 --> 01:26:55,239
that was just awesome. You know, it's not typically going

1608
01:26:55,279 --> 01:26:55,640
to come up.

1609
01:26:56,239 --> 01:26:59,199
Speaker 1: No, you recommend it, you watch it the one time,

1610
01:26:59,319 --> 01:27:02,600
and if you come across it again, yeah, I own it.

1611
01:27:02,640 --> 01:27:04,000
And the only reason I own it is because of

1612
01:27:04,039 --> 01:27:07,680
this podcast. If I'm buying Tom Cruise movies, this would

1613
01:27:07,680 --> 01:27:09,319
be in the bottom of the list. But if you

1614
01:27:09,399 --> 01:27:11,640
knew nothing about Tom Cruise and you want to recommend

1615
01:27:11,680 --> 01:27:14,239
some of his movies, this should be one of the recommendations.

1616
01:27:14,640 --> 01:27:18,880
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I totally agree, totally agree on all counts.

1617
01:27:19,399 --> 01:27:21,920
Since we're speaking of Tom Cruise movies, Jason, do you

1618
01:27:22,079 --> 01:27:25,119
have a go to Tom Cruise movie. That's a great question,

1619
01:27:25,279 --> 01:27:29,840
And as of late, I've been popping in Mission Impossible

1620
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:34,680
Fallout because I think that is an incredible movie all around.

1621
01:27:35,239 --> 01:27:39,239
It's just an absolute blast, stunt work, action, everything. So

1622
01:27:40,119 --> 01:27:44,359
that to go to Fallout and Maverick both our go

1623
01:27:44,479 --> 01:27:48,399
to is from his earlier days. I do love the

1624
01:27:48,479 --> 01:27:50,960
Color of Money. I'm so glad we did that on

1625
01:27:51,079 --> 01:27:54,159
our podcast. Yeah, yeah, that is a good one, you

1626
01:27:54,239 --> 01:27:56,920
know what, honestly, and I know I'm just naming a

1627
01:27:57,000 --> 01:27:59,239
lot of Tom Cruise movies, But there was a time

1628
01:27:59,319 --> 01:28:02,359
when I watch I had Like rain Man on repeat

1629
01:28:02,439 --> 01:28:05,239
watch when that was on Cable. I watched that a lot.

1630
01:28:06,159 --> 01:28:08,880
I really like Tom Cruise in that movie. I always

1631
01:28:09,119 --> 01:28:11,159
shout out his performance in that because it was a

1632
01:28:11,680 --> 01:28:14,680
he was kind of playing opposite his typical hero ro

1633
01:28:15,319 --> 01:28:16,319
hero role.

1634
01:28:16,840 --> 01:28:19,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's an interesting one to go back and rewatch

1635
01:28:19,960 --> 01:28:22,840
for me, because again, that was you know, pre pree

1636
01:28:22,960 --> 01:28:25,800
Days of Thunder, So it's it's been a while for

1637
01:28:25,880 --> 01:28:27,399
me to go back to some of those early ones

1638
01:28:27,439 --> 01:28:31,239
and start rewatching them and see like with a different eye, Like, no,

1639
01:28:31,399 --> 01:28:33,039
I actually like Cruise, So I'm.

1640
01:28:32,920 --> 01:28:34,920
Speaker 2: Glad, So glad that's the second time you brought up

1641
01:28:35,000 --> 01:28:37,119
Days of Thunder because that, for me is used to

1642
01:28:37,159 --> 01:28:39,479
be a rewatched like just I watch it all the

1643
01:28:39,520 --> 01:28:43,399
time because that's literally brainless actions, just top gun with cars,

1644
01:28:43,479 --> 01:28:46,119
So I watched that all the time. But yeah, recently

1645
01:28:47,000 --> 01:28:50,079
then Fallout Maverick, Okay, what about you.

1646
01:28:50,560 --> 01:28:53,000
Speaker 1: I've definitely been watching a lot of Maverick. I'll have

1647
01:28:53,079 --> 01:28:55,960
it on the background sometimes when i'm editing episodes so

1648
01:28:56,079 --> 01:28:59,640
I can watch something. I'll try to put on something

1649
01:28:59,680 --> 01:29:01,479
that I haven't seen in a while while i'm editing.

1650
01:29:01,560 --> 01:29:03,479
But then next thing you know, I'm watching the movie

1651
01:29:03,520 --> 01:29:06,880
and not editing. Whereas Maverick, I've watched it enough where

1652
01:29:07,159 --> 01:29:09,359
I'm just like, oh, okay, visually I can just kind

1653
01:29:09,399 --> 01:29:11,640
of know what's going on and not feel like I

1654
01:29:11,760 --> 01:29:15,600
have to stop and watch this scene. It's great, but

1655
01:29:15,960 --> 01:29:18,279
I'm trying to like from what I own, I do

1656
01:29:18,399 --> 01:29:22,000
have all the mission impossible movies. Risky Business is always

1657
01:29:22,039 --> 01:29:23,520
kind of fun to go back to every once in

1658
01:29:23,560 --> 01:29:26,880
a while, and then I can't remember because I keep

1659
01:29:26,960 --> 01:29:29,319
changing the goddamn title, the one what he keeps going

1660
01:29:29,359 --> 01:29:29,840
back in time?

1661
01:29:30,319 --> 01:29:33,039
Speaker 2: Oh God, that's a great one that I always Yeah,

1662
01:29:33,159 --> 01:29:35,560
that should be a go to of mine. I remember

1663
01:29:35,640 --> 01:29:39,000
seeing that screening, yeah, which was a ton of fun,

1664
01:29:39,479 --> 01:29:41,520
and he was there, which was really cool. Yeah, what

1665
01:29:41,640 --> 01:29:45,840
a surprise. Edge of Tomorrow. It been kind of rebranded

1666
01:29:46,039 --> 01:29:47,960
as Lived Repeat.

1667
01:29:48,159 --> 01:29:50,600
Speaker 1: Right, That's what confuses me. I'm like, yeah, most people

1668
01:29:50,680 --> 01:29:53,520
might know is now Lived Repeat, but it's like, no,

1669
01:29:53,640 --> 01:29:55,920
that's not what it was originally called. So yeah, to Tomorrow.

1670
01:29:56,560 --> 01:29:58,279
That's another fun one of like going back.

1671
01:29:58,119 --> 01:30:00,000
Speaker 2: To Absolutely that's a great movie.

1672
01:30:01,239 --> 01:30:01,840
Speaker 1: Anything else?

1673
01:30:02,199 --> 01:30:04,920
Speaker 2: I got two more? This one could be a little

1674
01:30:05,000 --> 01:30:11,760
controversial hot take opinion. But do you feel because this

1675
01:30:11,920 --> 01:30:15,800
and I say this with no judgment whatsoever, It's just

1676
01:30:15,920 --> 01:30:20,239
do you feel ron Kovik needed to or should have

1677
01:30:20,479 --> 01:30:24,600
confessed what he had done to Wilson's parents and family?

1678
01:30:25,239 --> 01:30:28,399
Speaker 1: For him, he needed to. It's like a huge weight

1679
01:30:28,479 --> 01:30:30,920
off his chest. I mean, he tried to report it,

1680
01:30:31,359 --> 01:30:35,520
it didn't go over well. Who knows what his parents

1681
01:30:35,760 --> 01:30:40,720
were told. Yeah, immediately makes me think of I can't

1682
01:30:40,720 --> 01:30:42,680
believe I'm blanket on the player, the football player that

1683
01:30:42,760 --> 01:30:43,600
went into.

1684
01:30:44,079 --> 01:30:48,880
Speaker 2: That was that was killed. Yes, in friendly fire? Correct?

1685
01:30:49,359 --> 01:30:50,840
Pat correct? Tim?

1686
01:30:51,359 --> 01:30:54,079
Speaker 1: Pat Tillman, Yeah, Pat Tillman. You know the amazing story

1687
01:30:54,119 --> 01:30:56,239
that he leaves football in order to go serve and

1688
01:30:56,359 --> 01:30:58,479
then he gets killed and they made it sound like,

1689
01:30:58,640 --> 01:31:00,199
you know, he got killed by the enemy, and then

1690
01:31:00,199 --> 01:31:02,520
it comes out that it was friendly fire and just

1691
01:31:02,960 --> 01:31:05,439
all the controversy that came with that that, I mean,

1692
01:31:05,520 --> 01:31:07,720
that's what was running through my mind when I was

1693
01:31:07,760 --> 01:31:11,560
thinking of all this throughout the movie. So part of

1694
01:31:11,600 --> 01:31:15,560
me almost felt like it's good that his family knew

1695
01:31:16,399 --> 01:31:18,920
what happened for real, right, Yeah.

1696
01:31:19,520 --> 01:31:22,800
Speaker 2: And that's I believe the conclusion I am coming to

1697
01:31:22,960 --> 01:31:27,600
as well. It's one of those things when you feel

1698
01:31:27,680 --> 01:31:31,520
that heavyweight, the cinder blocks that you're carrying in the

1699
01:31:31,560 --> 01:31:35,159
bag on your back, the burden of this guilt and

1700
01:31:35,439 --> 01:31:38,720
shame that is eating you away from the inside, and

1701
01:31:38,800 --> 01:31:43,079
you feel as though you need to tell the person

1702
01:31:43,239 --> 01:31:46,960
or people that you have wronged in a way the truth,

1703
01:31:47,520 --> 01:31:52,399
and sometimes it can be for selfish purposes just to

1704
01:31:52,479 --> 01:31:55,279
relieve yourself with that guilt where it may actually do

1705
01:31:55,399 --> 01:31:58,960
the other person more harm than good, so that you

1706
01:31:59,039 --> 01:32:01,640
know where the because it's I think this scene is

1707
01:32:01,760 --> 01:32:04,880
well like, well filmed, well acted, well played out and

1708
01:32:05,279 --> 01:32:07,680
well written in the way that you do have And

1709
01:32:07,880 --> 01:32:10,039
I don't know, I'm sure assuming a lot of it

1710
01:32:10,159 --> 01:32:13,359
is true to what actually happened in the book, etc.

1711
01:32:13,800 --> 01:32:16,800
In ron Kovic's life, but when the father says we

1712
01:32:16,880 --> 01:32:20,359
don't have to hear this is one of those things.

1713
01:32:20,439 --> 01:32:22,960
Speaker 1: It's like yeah, And that was the thing I kept

1714
01:32:23,079 --> 01:32:26,479
trying to put myself in the parent shoes, like, Okay,

1715
01:32:26,520 --> 01:32:30,359
if I'm in that situation, could I forgive ron.

1716
01:32:31,640 --> 01:32:34,079
Speaker 2: Or how sure?

1717
01:32:34,640 --> 01:32:38,399
Speaker 1: I think I would be upset hearing it, but understanding

1718
01:32:38,800 --> 01:32:42,880
how combat is. I don't think I would go rotten, hell,

1719
01:32:42,960 --> 01:32:45,960
you son of a bitch? Right. It would be hurtful,

1720
01:32:46,039 --> 01:32:48,359
but I think I would be understanding. I think my

1721
01:32:48,560 --> 01:32:52,239
child would still be lost regardless, but I think knowing

1722
01:32:52,319 --> 01:32:55,039
the truth at that moment it would be really hard,

1723
01:32:55,640 --> 01:32:58,479
but I think over time, I think I would feel

1724
01:32:58,560 --> 01:33:00,680
better knowing what have happen.

1725
01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:04,039
Speaker 2: And so that's where I'm coming out on as far

1726
01:33:04,119 --> 01:33:08,720
as Ron doing it not for to unburden himself or

1727
01:33:08,800 --> 01:33:12,720
for selfish reasons, but to the ideas it's in the

1728
01:33:12,800 --> 01:33:17,000
spirit of truth and honesty, correct, So feeling that this

1729
01:33:17,159 --> 01:33:22,199
family deserves the truth, they deserve to know what really happened,

1730
01:33:22,640 --> 01:33:25,199
and then we'll have to come to peace with that

1731
01:33:25,359 --> 01:33:29,600
on their own terms. But yeah, it's just such a

1732
01:33:29,840 --> 01:33:35,239
tricky thing to deal with when so so tragic, traumatic

1733
01:33:35,319 --> 01:33:38,560
and personal. So yeah, I just want to discuss that

1734
01:33:38,760 --> 01:33:42,800
real quick. And then I have one more one more question. Okay,

1735
01:33:43,239 --> 01:33:47,079
all right, best movies or best movie moments or I

1736
01:33:47,119 --> 01:33:49,199
should say, I don't know how to phrase this, but

1737
01:33:49,439 --> 01:33:53,840
feature let's just best movies featuring Independence Day or Independence

1738
01:33:53,960 --> 01:33:57,560
Day scenes slash moments. I'll go over it list and

1739
01:33:57,800 --> 01:34:00,760
give credit to a little short video on IMDb which

1740
01:34:00,800 --> 01:34:03,600
follows the trailer for Born the fourth of July. If

1741
01:34:03,640 --> 01:34:06,159
you go to the page you can watch it. We

1742
01:34:06,319 --> 01:34:09,239
have and they do it in chronological order, which is

1743
01:34:09,279 --> 01:34:12,159
great as if as in the dates that happen within

1744
01:34:12,239 --> 01:34:15,279
the fiction of the film. So it starts with back

1745
01:34:15,319 --> 01:34:18,680
to the Future. Three July fourth is the day when

1746
01:34:18,840 --> 01:34:21,279
Emmett learns it's the you know, they're in the Old

1747
01:34:21,319 --> 01:34:25,640
West in that one, and Emmett learns Christopher Lloyd learns

1748
01:34:25,680 --> 01:34:29,079
that he can't hold his whiskey. That happens on fourth

1749
01:34:29,119 --> 01:34:33,239
of July. It's kind of funny then, as the timeline

1750
01:34:33,319 --> 01:34:36,239
goes on in actual history, but within the fiction of

1751
01:34:36,279 --> 01:34:41,119
these films, it's Captain America's birthday. Okay, So in Captain America,

1752
01:34:41,239 --> 01:34:44,439
the first avenger, uh, you see that at July fourth

1753
01:34:44,560 --> 01:34:48,640
is his birthday. Then the shining the picture at the

1754
01:34:48,880 --> 01:34:53,560
very end, which establishes supposedly that Jack has been there

1755
01:34:53,680 --> 01:34:57,520
all along, right, is dated July fourth.

1756
01:34:57,880 --> 01:34:59,239
Speaker 1: Oh, okay, we have.

1757
01:35:00,960 --> 01:35:01,920
Speaker 2: Go ahead. What were you gonna say?

1758
01:35:02,199 --> 01:35:03,760
Speaker 1: You know what, if I was quizzed on that, I

1759
01:35:03,760 --> 01:35:04,680
would have said it was New.

1760
01:35:04,680 --> 01:35:07,399
Speaker 2: Years Okay, yeah, I thought it was New Year's too,

1761
01:35:07,600 --> 01:35:09,920
So now yeah, I gotta go back and look at that,

1762
01:35:10,039 --> 01:35:12,039
all right, Yes, you're right. Hmm.

1763
01:35:12,880 --> 01:35:15,239
Speaker 1: Well you said if IMDb did it, they would.

1764
01:35:15,199 --> 01:35:19,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, we may have to. That's that's my question than

1765
01:35:19,479 --> 01:35:21,680
to ask people, was I now that you say that? Okay?

1766
01:35:21,800 --> 01:35:23,800
So take it or leave it? On that one? That

1767
01:35:23,920 --> 01:35:28,359
yellow effect right right right, totally Sandlot summer sixty two,

1768
01:35:28,560 --> 01:35:31,439
they have their one night game. Now here's where I

1769
01:35:31,560 --> 01:35:33,439
have a feeling your vote might lie.

1770
01:35:33,640 --> 01:35:34,600
Speaker 1: I know what're you going to say?

1771
01:35:34,640 --> 01:35:39,720
Speaker 2: Now, Jaws? That's right, yeah, the attack, it happens right

1772
01:35:39,760 --> 01:35:45,319
off the beach. There. Independence Day. Not a good idea, Mayor.

1773
01:35:45,520 --> 01:35:45,880
Speaker 1: What was this?

1774
01:35:46,000 --> 01:35:46,840
Speaker 2: What's the starter's name?

1775
01:35:47,840 --> 01:35:48,960
Speaker 1: Mayor Vaughan? There you go.

1776
01:35:49,439 --> 01:35:53,560
Speaker 2: Then we get Forrest Gump. Forrest Gump proposes on Independence

1777
01:35:53,600 --> 01:35:55,920
Day in the movie. We get Flight of the Navigator

1778
01:35:56,039 --> 01:35:58,880
with the young boy David Freeman, who goes missing. He

1779
01:35:59,159 --> 01:36:03,199
takes off, and then nah. Maybe most famously, the US

1780
01:36:03,399 --> 01:36:06,920
is attacked by aliens on Independence Day in the movie

1781
01:36:07,199 --> 01:36:09,279
Independence Day, and as a result we get the famous

1782
01:36:09,319 --> 01:36:13,840
Bill Pullman presidential speech. So any favorites or do you

1783
01:36:13,920 --> 01:36:18,279
have a choice of a favorite Independence Day scene, moment, situation?

1784
01:36:18,880 --> 01:36:21,880
Speaker 1: Right away, you think Independence Day because of the name

1785
01:36:21,920 --> 01:36:24,079
of the film, right, I mean it is a fun,

1786
01:36:24,239 --> 01:36:27,319
cheeseball film. I mean you were a part of it,

1787
01:36:27,640 --> 01:36:28,239
so you know that.

1788
01:36:30,239 --> 01:36:33,760
Speaker 2: Technically I was never seen on screen.

1789
01:36:34,279 --> 01:36:36,680
Speaker 1: But if Jaws is one of the choices, I gotta

1790
01:36:36,720 --> 01:36:37,319
go with Jaws.

1791
01:36:37,600 --> 01:36:39,720
Speaker 2: There you go. I think back to the future ones

1792
01:36:39,760 --> 01:36:43,359
are kind of funny but yeah, I'm choosing Jaws as well. Okay,

1793
01:36:43,640 --> 01:36:44,479
that's all I got.

1794
01:36:44,800 --> 01:36:46,880
Speaker 1: All right, let's move on to our ratings. So on

1795
01:36:47,279 --> 01:36:50,119
a scale of one to five protests, what do you

1796
01:36:50,239 --> 01:36:52,000
give Born on the fourth of July.

1797
01:36:52,560 --> 01:36:56,960
Speaker 2: I'm giving it four solid protests, with the right to reserve,

1798
01:36:57,560 --> 01:37:00,520
changing my review to four point five. Right now, I'm

1799
01:37:00,600 --> 01:37:03,319
still digesting, I suppose, and so I'm going to go

1800
01:37:03,439 --> 01:37:08,520
with four protests. It's Cruise, It's Stone, It's Bob Richardson,

1801
01:37:08,800 --> 01:37:14,119
It's John Williams. It's great filmmaking. It's extremely moving, heartbreaking, upsetting,

1802
01:37:14,640 --> 01:37:17,399
makes you think, makes you feel a little dirty, does

1803
01:37:17,520 --> 01:37:20,880
make me question some things. It accomplishes a lot. I

1804
01:37:21,359 --> 01:37:26,199
did have some story development issues, but I think they

1805
01:37:26,279 --> 01:37:28,800
may have been cleared up by our discussion Bill Bant

1806
01:37:28,880 --> 01:37:32,640
and I could have Yeah, maybe use a little more development.

1807
01:37:32,720 --> 01:37:36,000
But Cruise is amazing in this It's very much worth

1808
01:37:36,119 --> 01:37:40,039
watching today. We'll always need more movies with directors that

1809
01:37:40,199 --> 01:37:43,760
have an opinion, even though it might be controversial. I

1810
01:37:43,880 --> 01:37:47,560
love directors that direct and write, write our director and

1811
01:37:47,680 --> 01:37:50,319
have a point of view, provide different perspective that makes

1812
01:37:50,359 --> 01:37:52,920
you think. This film makes me think a lot more

1813
01:37:52,960 --> 01:37:56,880
deeply about that time in our history and the war itself.

1814
01:37:57,359 --> 01:38:01,800
So it's a very impactful film, very emotion and that's

1815
01:38:01,880 --> 01:38:03,239
it for protests for me.

1816
01:38:03,960 --> 01:38:06,319
Speaker 1: What say you, Bill Ban I'm right there with you.

1817
01:38:06,399 --> 01:38:09,239
I have Ford protests myself. This is a movie where

1818
01:38:09,279 --> 01:38:11,960
we see Tom Cruise, the actor, so you certainly should

1819
01:38:12,000 --> 01:38:14,680
watch it for his performance. It's very well done this

1820
01:38:14,800 --> 01:38:20,319
subject matter. Yes, it's very controversial and really makes you think,

1821
01:38:21,279 --> 01:38:26,279
and it does make you think when situations like this occur,

1822
01:38:26,760 --> 01:38:29,239
you got to find the facts and make your own opinion.

1823
01:38:29,680 --> 01:38:32,680
It is a movie that's difficult to watch. I totally

1824
01:38:32,720 --> 01:38:35,720
agree with what Gene was saying. It betrays moments that

1825
01:38:35,880 --> 01:38:39,439
you don't think you really want to see, but Oliver

1826
01:38:39,520 --> 01:38:43,600
Stone showed it, and I think I do appreciate that fact.

1827
01:38:43,920 --> 01:38:48,960
It really makes you appreciate what our military how to

1828
01:38:49,600 --> 01:38:53,079
go through in that situation. Probably even in the wars

1829
01:38:53,159 --> 01:38:56,560
before that underfund it. When it came to taking care

1830
01:38:56,680 --> 01:38:59,720
of those who got wounded in battle, you don't think

1831
01:38:59,720 --> 01:39:01,520
about it. You think about those that come home and

1832
01:39:02,039 --> 01:39:05,439
are okay. But there's a lot of emotional and physical

1833
01:39:05,479 --> 01:39:09,079
scars that come with going to war, and I think

1834
01:39:09,119 --> 01:39:11,840
this movie depicts it very well. It's not a movie

1835
01:39:11,880 --> 01:39:15,520
you're gonna watch multiple times, but I definitely think you

1836
01:39:15,520 --> 01:39:19,760
should give it a watch at least once, especially for

1837
01:39:19,960 --> 01:39:23,880
younger audience members. That we're learning about wars and conflicts

1838
01:39:23,920 --> 01:39:26,760
that our country has gone through over the years. So

1839
01:39:27,479 --> 01:39:32,560
it's very well made, put together movie and it deserves

1840
01:39:32,560 --> 01:39:34,800
your attention, even though it's one that's not really talked

1841
01:39:34,800 --> 01:39:36,399
about a lot, which is kind of surprising.

1842
01:39:36,640 --> 01:39:37,720
Speaker 2: Well said, great points.

1843
01:39:38,479 --> 01:39:40,119
Speaker 1: Okay, I think that about wraps it up for this

1844
01:39:40,199 --> 01:39:43,359
week's episode. As always, thank you so much for listening.

1845
01:39:43,560 --> 01:39:46,439
Please take time to follow us and you prefer streaming platform,

1846
01:39:46,560 --> 01:39:48,560
give us a review and rate us. If we can

1847
01:39:48,640 --> 01:39:51,159
learn more about our show, you can visit us at

1848
01:39:51,479 --> 01:39:55,319
all Eighties Movies podcast dot com. Have an excellent rest

1849
01:39:55,359 --> 01:39:56,600
of your day now.

1850
01:39:57,000 --> 01:40:00,239
Speaker 2: People say, people say, if you don't love a mayor Erica,

1851
01:40:00,319 --> 01:40:03,680
then get the hell out. Well, I love America. We

1852
01:40:03,840 --> 01:40:06,159
love the people of America very much, but when it

1853
01:40:06,199 --> 01:40:10,479
comes to the government stops right there. Thanks for standing

1854
01:40:10,560 --> 01:40:12,399
up with us. Good Night World,